From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Dec 1 08:02:43 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:32:43 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Celebrity Terrorism: Propaganda of the Deed Message-ID: <055B2D35-522D-451C-8D3D-A1ACCDED7278@earthlink.net> I just thought I'd pass this on. Interesting take on the media response to Mumbai attacks. A brief collage: Nobody appears to have heard of the Deccan Mujahideen - perhaps because they have never existed. Taken from the French phrase "propagande par le fait" and an early proponent of "propaganda by the deed" was the Italian revolutionary Carlo Pisacane (1818-1857), who wrote in his "Political Testament" (1857) that "ideas spring from deeds and not the other way around." Mikhail Bakunin (1814-1876), in his "Letters to a Frenchman on the Present Crisis" (1870) stated that "we must spread our principles, not with words but with deeds, for this is the most popular, the most potent, and the most irresistible form of propaganda." The Mumbai attacks sprang up as an almost self- organizing anti-system response. No one is sure of what the agenda was, or why the deed was perpetrated. Paul The age of 'celebrity terrorism' By Paul Cornish Chairman, Chatham House's International Security Programme http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7755684.stm Quite apart from the scores murdered and the hundreds injured, what the Mumbai terrorists really wanted was an exaggerated - and preferably extreme - reaction on the part of governments, the media and public opinion. In these terms, the attackers received as much attention as they could possibly have hoped for, and the Mumbai outrage can only be described as a very significant terrorist success. The attack received saturation coverage in the world's media from the outset. One of the gunmen involved in the Mumbai attacks The gunmen did not disguise their identity, but their cause is murkier Almost within minutes, television screens showed harrowing scenes of pools of blood where people had died or been injured, hotels ablaze, Indian army snipers firing at distant targets, and CCTV images of the attackers. Especially disturbing, hostages and survivors reported that certain nationalities had been identified by their passports and taken away for execution. No matter how obscure, every detail of this multi-point, sustained attack was soon being pored over by terrorism experts, trying to fit the carnage in Mumbai into one template or another. Unanswered questions So the speculative - and often tendentious - questioning began. What were the tactics of the terrorists? What weapons did they have and where could they have got them? How much planning and preparation would have been necessary for a military-style operation of this sort? Who were the terrorists - where were they from and what did they want? The Mumbai attacks have dominated the airwaves Who was the mastermind behind the attacks? And did the attacks have the hallmarks of an al-Qaeda-style operation. Was it all part of the global jihad against the West? This is precisely how terrorism is meant to work - the terrorist's action must always be complemented by the target's reaction in order to complete the scene. How the attack is carried out, and what is done to whom, matters no more - and often rather less - than the way the attack is received, and the impact accorded to it. The impact has indeed been instant and extensive, reaching into the worlds of politics, business and even sport, and on all levels - internationally, regionally and nationally in India. Adding meaning But, for all the horror of the Mumbai attack, there might have been much less to it than first met the eye, and a hasty and exaggerated response might have played more of a part, and given more meaning to the attack than it should. Nobody appears to have heard of the Deccan Mujahideen - perhaps because they have never existed. Perhaps it was not so difficult after all to plan and execute this attack: small arms and hand grenades are not hard to find, boats are scarcely specialised equipment, and Mumbai is a vast, open city with more than enough soft targets. These individuals indulge in terrorism simply because they can, while their audience concocts a rationale on their behalf Perhaps we do not know enough about where the perpetrators are from, because they could have come from almost anywhere? The terrorists were willing to show their faces on CCTV. Was this suicide for martyrdom - as in New York and Washington in 2001, and London in 2005 - or suicide for celebrity, as in Columbine in 1999 and Virginia Tech in 2007? And perhaps so little is known of the terrorists' cause, because they simply did not feel the need to have one. The attack in Mumbai was obviously planned - but "military-style planning" (whatever that means) is probably not necessary for the mass murder of unarmed and unsuspecting civilians going about their business in crowded railway stations and restaurants. This could also have been a plan which had a large gap where mission, cause or vision statement ought to have been. But no matter. The terrorists might have assumed, quite correctly as it happens, that the world's media and the terrorism analysis industry would very quickly fill in any gaps for them. Writing the narrative The character of modern terrorism is widely understood to have been shaped by a mid-19th-Century idea known as the "propaganda of the deed" - a strategy for political change in which the message or cause is contained within, and expressed by the violent act. In a novel twist, the Mumbai terrorists might have embarked on propaganda of the deed without the propaganda in the confident expectation that the rationalisation for the attack - the narrative - would be provided by politicians, the media and terrorism analysts. A soldier stands in front of the Taj Mahal hotel in Mumbai The attacks were a strike at the city's symbolic buildings If so, then Mumbai could represent something rather different in the history of terrorism, and possibly something far more disturbing even than global jihad. Perhaps we have come to the point where casually self-radicalised, sociopathic individuals can form a loose organisation, acquire sufficient weapons and equipment for a few thousand dollars, make a basic plan of action and indulge in a violent expression of their generalised disaffection and anomie. These individuals indulge in terrorism simply because they can, while their audience concocts a rationale on their behalf. Welcome to the age of celebrity terrorism. The invitation to the world's D-list malcontents reads as follows: No matter how corrupt your moral sense, how contorted your view of the world, how vapid and inarticulate your ideas, how talentless you are and how exaggerated your grievance, an obsessive audience will watch your every move and turn you into what you most want to be, just before your death. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Dec 1 08:09:31 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:39:31 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] NARAL - a Pro-Choice agenda in Video Message-ID: <5122D8EA-E98E-4219-B60D-C402E9FA24B1@earthlink.net> I did the score to the series of web media ads trying to raise awareness of choice issues NARAL is putting up. You can see the the videos at www.MyFreeWillPower.com in peace Paul The Pro-Choice Future Caught on Video: What is free.will.power? by Nancy Keenan http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-keenan/the-pro-choice-future-cau_b_147219.html RSS stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust mixx.com Share this on Facebook Read More: Birth Control, DJ Spooky, Freedom, Naral Pro-Choice America, Obama, Roe v. Wade, Video, Voting, Young Voters, Politics News It is no secret that the 2008 election cycle demonstrated that technology is giving people, especially younger voters, more power to make a difference in ways we couldn't have even imagined just a few years ago. Specifically, the influential group of voters under age 26 is the most diverse and engaged generation in our country's history. They are developing innovative ways to help alleviate poverty or save the environment in their communities and around the world. And, most notably, they played a key role in President-elect Barack Obama's victory. As a political organization that works to engage activists of all ages in protecting women's freedom and privacy, NARAL Pro-Choice America is committed to tapping into the talents of these savvy younger voters to help build the next generation of leaders of the pro-choice cause. That's why, in the weeks following the historic presidential election, we launched free.will.power -- an interactive and innovative campaign that, at first glance, looks a bit different from other initiatives you typically see from advocacy organizations - and there is a reason. NARAL Pro-Choice America Foundation, working with the Chicago-based firm see3 communications, enlisted the creative minds of three young spoken-word artists - Shira Erlichman , Alvin Lau , and Deja Taylor - as well as a renowned musician, DJ Spooky , to produce three online viral videos that feature compelling words, visuals, and sound. A web site, MyFreeWillPower.com, houses these videos as well as other technology-based, interactive ways for new activists to get involved with NARAL Pro-Choice America's work, whether it's taking action on a choice-related issue, forwarding videos to friends, joining our social- networking groups, or participating in contests. Yes, free.will.power is our newest online venture - but we're using fresh tools to engage the next generation of pro-choice activists. We also work in partnership with our state affiliates to organize pro- choice groups on college campuses. Without a doubt, video is changing how we communicate in all areas of our work. In the 2006 midterm congressional elections, we did a handful of election-related videos. In the 2008 election cycle, we produced (in house, thanks to our talented staff) 36 election-related videos. We must keep pace with the changes in how people - particularly the younger generation - receive and act on information. In January 2009, we will commemorate the 36th anniversary of the Supreme Court's landmark decision in Roe v. Wade . For my generation, Roe was the impetus for our involvement in the pro-choice cause. We know what it was like for women in the days of illegal abortion and vow never to return to those days again. However, I recognize that a Supreme Court decision handed down in the days of typewriters and four television channels may not hold the same significance for a generation whose experiences with reproductive- health issues are different. There's the college student who learned that the cost of her birth control doubled last year due to an unintended consequence in a federal law. There's the woman who goes to the pharmacy counter and learns that it's okay for the pharmacy to refuse to fill her prescription for contraception. There's the woman who learns that her state's laws will delay for 24 hours or more her access to safe, legal abortion care (or that nearly 90 percent of counties do not have an abortion provider). While our values are consistent, these changes in technology--and in the circumstances that shape women's experiences-- call on us to change the ways in which we engage the public. Using technology, we are connecting with Americans of all ages, not just younger voters, who may be largely unaware of the ongoing and often under-the-radar-screen attempts to limit or undermine our freedom and privacy. The elections that determine who takes office, whether it's the White House or the state legislature, matter since those individuals help pass legislation and enact laws that affect our everyday lives. Take a look at Alvin's video, "Will": As Alvin so eloquently explains, while the iPhone has replaced the typewriters of the Roe decision era of 1973, the core issues are absolutely relevant today. Through free.will.power , we hope even more Americans, including the growing number of influential youth leaders, join the pro-choice cause and add reproductive rights to the list of issues they talk about with their friends and family. * Voting * Barack Obama RSS stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust mixx.com Share this on Facebook From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 09:42:00 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:12:00 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan media declare war on Indian counterparts (The Hindu) Message-ID: <940B7010C3304442A13AF8F62D5D9EE0@tara> Here is a report about how media in Pakistan is full of nationalist fervour these days. Well media are everywhere like that . To be honest, I wanted to know which media Pakistani media listen to that are not asking Indian government questions about intelligence failure. The Indian media I use never says Pakistan was involved, they say the sources reveal ... ============================================================= This article has been sent to you by TaraPrakash ( taraprakash at gmail.com ) ============================================================= International    Pakistan media declare war on Indian counterparts Nirupama Subramanian Indian media accused of not demanding for evidence“They are overcommitted to projecting India as a success story” ISLAMABAD: The escalating tensions between India and Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks have led to the declaration of hostilities in unexpected quarters – Pakistani media has declared a virtual war on Indian media for its “knee-jerk” finger-pointing across the border, and its unquestioning acceptance of the Indian government’s “Pakistan-link” theory. Most Pakistanis are angry and upset about the Indian allegations, which they believe are “unsubstantiated”. Even the Indian government, whose highest officials have made the allegation in unambiguous terms, have not come in for as much flak as the messenger, the assumption being that governments will say what they have to, but it is the duty of the media to question. Leading the charge against the India media are the Pakistani television channels, with panel discussions shows devoted exclusively to the coverage of the Mumbai attacks by the Indian media. Even on talk shows about the impact of the attacks on the relations between the two countries, among the first questions that anchors are shooting off are: “Do you think the India media should have pointed a finger at Pakistan within such a short time, and without any evidence? Why do we see this knee-jerk response every time some terrorist incident takes place in India?” Overshadowed One of the big successes of the peace process since 2004 was the greater understanding and camaraderie between the media of the two countries, thanks to frequent interactions. But the smoke and gunfire of Mumbai has overshadowed even that. Top Pakistani journalists are asking why the Indian media, more specifically the electronic media, have been so willing to accept the government theory that the attackers came from Pakistan. Top Pakistani journalists are asking why the Indian media, more specifically the electronic media, have been so willing to accept the government theory that the attackers came from Pakistan. They are dismissive of reports in the Indian press that the terrorists had links with Lashkar-e-Taiba, or that they landed in Mumbai in a boat from Karachi. Instead, they are asking why these reports are not demanding the government for evidence of these allegations. “Too nationalistic” On Dawn News, three top guns of the Pakistani media – anchors Hamid Mir, Talat Hussain and Nasim Zehra – dissected the coverage in an hour-long programme that was aired both on Saturday and Sunday. Their scathing conclusion – Indian media are “too nationalistic”, “smug”, they told “lies” or at best “half-truths”, “did not ask questions”, resorted to “clichés” and have perfected the art of projecting Pakistan as the enemy. A similar programme aired on Geo TV on Sunday. The feeling is widespread in the Pakistan journalistic community that the Indian media are responsible for the current tensions between the two countries and for pushing the Indian government to take on its neighbour even if it means launching a military strike. The India media have been accused of not even looking at other possibilities, such as the involvement of an Indian group in the attacks. The new evidence in the Samjhauta Express firebombings pointing a finger at a Hindutva militant group has come up repeatedly as one reason why the Indian media should have been less “hasty” in arriving at its conclusions. On the whole, Pakistanis — as evident from public phone-ins to talk shows — are even questioning if the entire ghastly episode was not all engineered by Indian intelligence agencies working in connivance with the U.S. to “defame” Pakistan with the intention of dismembering it. “[The] Indian media is overcommitted to projecting India as a success story. They are not used to reporting state failures. They are used to reporting India as a country where nothing bad happens, its Army as the best thing in the world. It projects its heroes as supermen, taller than the Himlayas…So the gap between what the Indian media are committed to reporting, and the crass state failure they had to do report [in Mumbai], they ended up filling it with lies,” Mr. Hussain, a top-rated anchor with Aaj TV, told Dawn News. On the same programme, Mr. Mir, who anchors Geo’s flagship show Capital Talk, asked why the Indian media were not asking hard questions of the Indian government. “When Pakistani forces say they have killed five Al-Qaeda, when they say Rashid Rauf has been killed in a drone attack, Pakistani media are asking them questions — show us the bodies. But Indian media are not asking important questions. “There are 500 nautical miles between Karachi and Gujarat, and the Indian media are saying the terrorists came in boats from Karachi. Why are they not questioning the failure of their intelligence agencies?” Mr. Mir said the Indian media had to take responsibility of the sharp downslide in the relations between the two countries. At a press conference, Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi too accused the Indian media of “irresponsible” conduct. Giving himself credit for having stayed on in India for three days after the Mumbai incidents began, he said he had “engaged with their political leadership, engaged their intelligentsia, faced their media,” to explain Pakistan’s point of view. In response to his appeal for “national unity” and his declaration that the country must “hope for the best and plan for the worst”, at least one Punjabi television channel started playing national songs from the 1965 and 1971 wars, including Noorjehan’s famous song dedicated to soldiers, “Merey watan key sajheeley jawanon”. Copyright: 1995 - 2006 The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the consent of The Hindu From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 09:47:22 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:17:22 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Balaka Storks Dodge A Bullet Message-ID: Images of the statues are at the URL, full text is below. http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/11/30/balaka-statue/ Balaka Storks Dodge A Bullet by Naeem Mohaiemen NEW AGE, December 1, 2008 Unlike the Baul statue circus a month ago, the group that came to smash Balaka Chattar/Biman Office statues (storks, also by Mrinal Haque) came near midnight. This time, no government officials, no advance "protest" in media, no advance anything. They worked quickly, with hammers. Other reports said "ramda", but I tend to think that's fear shorthand. Then the police arrived. According to BdNews24, for the first fifteen minutes they did nothing. Then I suppose the "higher ups" decided whether to stop or allow, impede or accelerate. And then the police "swung into action." Or, as Shamokal reports it, dhawa palta dhawa. Police wounded, attackers in custody, conveniently wearing white robes. Almost ready for their photo-op. The hammers managed to get through the plaster legs, but stopped at iron rods. I arrived after midnight. Lot of police vans. My CNG driver knew about it: "Ektu agei hangama hoise, oidike jaiben". Helpful tour guide. Al Jazeera camera crew were there. Video camera nicely set on tripod. Of course. It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good. I said to a photographer friend, I knew the trouble was over, because in a real volatile situation, there would be no time for steady shots. Al Jazeera seemed excited by the flyer left behind, even though it was about Mandar, the play banned by Islami Chatra Shibir in Rajshahi. What is the link between Mandar and these statues? Or were they too cheap to print their own slogans. Or is Udichi to blame for the storks as well? It's all one gigantic hodge-podge. But I'm sure some TV station will clarify and simplify, turn it into a bite-sized chunk and juicy headline. And then two days later, a friend will write me from New York "What's going on over there?" Oddly enough, there seems to be only one copy of the flyer (and one copy with the police official, who didn't want to share). Or maybe some were taken away by the newspaper photographers, who had already taken their snaps and left to file the story. Deadlines, deadlines. As soon as we start photographing the flyer, a crowd gathers around us. The camera makes the event or just brings it into focus I don't know. If I just didn't comment on the image, illusions would run one way. The police ask our group which paper we are with. We're not with anyone. Ah, he says nodding, that's why you're so late. Police are questioning a municipal sweeper. Or maybe they are chatting. A jhalmuri-wala has appeared out of nowhere. Hungry police officers. A relaxed air. We clearly have arrived late, after the rush. A rickshawalla wants to know if I will need a ride. Thakbo? Just how many people attacked the statue is a mystery. Some people we talked to said the first attack was a group of three men with hammers, who were soon joined by a larger group. But how many people? "Couldn't say, at least fifty." "What are you talking about, many more than that," snapped his superior. We asked somebody else, who says, "Hundreds, for sure." An older man, for good measure, "Thousands, I stopped counting." Thousands? I think those storks would be rubble if there were thousands. But perception shapes reality. BdNews24 is reporting "Al Bayenat" is claiming responsibility. Al who? Shamokal reports in the AM, hundred protesters "including madrasa students". When I first left my house after getting the call, I had a feeling of dread. Drishtipat's Asif sent an SMS "Ki arombho korlo!" And yes, we headed to Motijheel thinking to avert another travesty. Not this statue too! If only we were fond of the artwork, but free speech is also about defending unpopular speech. But later, when it turned out that after all they hadn't broken it, we veered uneasily into gallows humor. That the rod in the stork legs were not Chinese, mojbut maal, not 2 number. That it was a band of irritated art critics. That it was a stunt by people who hated the 1971 installation at the Dhaka Biennial, that most despised art event. And the unintentional comedy of the other site of attack. A small foundation stone laid a block away, for another statue. This one laid by Mayor Sadeq Hossain Khoka. Smashed very successfully. Hmmm... What is sand and pitch is a global audience, creating a conundrum for activists. I am glad they didn't manage to smash the statues. Dodged the bullet, this time. And because there's relief, our group starts having a discussion about tactical media. When we go home tonight and blog about this, we will put up our images by habit. But then what, where will those images go? Our struggle is for very basic simplicity and transparency: an end to obscurantist definitions of theology, the politics of religion, and a new beginning to free spirited daily life. But some journalist somewhere will take these same images and start writing about "Bangladeshi jehadi camps"-- in a manner already in the Indian media after the horrific Mumbai attacks. Pakistan is the main suspect, but someone will try to blame Bangladesh as well. Is Balaka statue going to be grist for another Sadanand Dhume op-ed in Wall Street Journal? In a piece written the day after the shocking Mumbai tragedy, Dhume makes the amazing unsubstantiated assertion that there is "public sympathy with the militant Islamic worldview" in Bangladesh. You can't think of so many things, so many audiences, says Asif, we have to name what we see around us. You fight the "militant Islamists" in whatever form you find them. And you put quote marks around "Islamist" to indicate that yes, we are talking of reactionary, manipulative politics not religion and spirituality. We don't want madrasa students used as cannon fodder any more. And you always try to make sure your local struggles don't get used to paint Bangladesh as "the next Afghanistan" (as in Hironmoy Karlekar's alarmist book). Someone will always hijack your narrative for their own agenda. But we need to keep plugging away. Small fights, small wins. The storks are still standing. [naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com works on art & technology projects.] From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 10:26:24 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:26:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Spineless WE are Message-ID: <6b79f1a70811302056k3edf243cr8df5c2ff37c3f61d@mail.gmail.com> Till we face another attack, let us write mails. Till we face another attack , let us light candles. Till we face another attack, let us demand resignation. Till we face another attack, let us tell us tell we have won. Till we face another attack , let us blame ISI Till we face another attack, let us ask for Dawood Have we really fought terror all these years ? Pakistan has been troubling us right from 1947 starting with tribal raid on Kashmir , then the Hijacking by Maqbool Butt , then the 'Khalistan' thing , then the Kashmir , then the 'Parliament' , Kandhar , Delhi Blasts , Mumbai blasts and what not ............... innocents have lost lives , families have been destroyed ............ The fact remains we dont have the 'resolve' to be practical to fight terror. Indian leadership, spineless they are, have not all these years been able to get 'D' extradiated ,forget Azhar mahmood and et all.... Let us admit , 'SPINELESS WE ARE'. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 11:25:47 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:25:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fareed Zarkaria Unmasked Message-ID: <6b79f1a70811302155v12c8492s5a5346e0181387fe@mail.gmail.com> http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/trager/44911 An "Untold Story"Eric Trager- 11.29.2008 - 1:58 PM Mere hours into the horrific attacks in Mumbai, CNN/Newsweek bloviatorFareed Zakaria inaugurated the typical "root causes" debate by "explaining" away the terrorists' motivation: One of the untold stories of India is that the Muslim population has not shared in the boom the country has enjoyed over the last ten years. There is still a lot of institutional discrimination, and many remain persecuted. There's enough alienation out there that there are locals who can be drawn in to plots. Of course, there's a lot that stinks about Zakaria's so-called "explanation." As Abenoted, early reports indicate that some of the attackers were British citizens of Pakistani descent - i.e., not "persecuted" Indian Muslims. Moreover, a Chabad house was among the targets - i.e., an institution not frequented by "discriminating" Indian officials. In short, the empirics don't point to "institutional discrimination" as a "root cause" of the Mumbai attacks. Yet Zakaria's instant analysis of the attacks is pernicious for a second reason: if "institutional discrimination" against Indian Muslims is truly an "untold story," Zakaria deserves a good deal of the blame. After all, Zakaria is one of the most prominent foreign policy journalists in the world - he is the former editor of *Foreign Affairs*, the editor of *Newsweek International*, and host of CNN's weekly *Fareed Zakaria GPS*. He is also, arguably, the most prominent Muslim of Indian descent in America, and his father was a prominent Indian Muslim politician. So check out Zakaria's archive: how many of his articles have addressed the plight of Indian Muslims? How often has he told the story of their apparent exclusion from India's economic development? More specifically, where are Muslims' ostracism mentioned in this *Newsweek *cover storythat Zakaria wrote on India's boom? At what point did Zakaria reference India's Muslims during his CNN interviews with Condoleezza Rice, Pakistani politician Imran Khan, or fellow India-jet-setter Thomas Friedman, among others? Indeed, if "institutional discrimination" against Indian Muslims is truly a "root cause" of the Mumbai attacks, we should ask Zakaria how he managed to neglect this "untold story" for so long. He is either a shamefully unobservant journalist or a blatant apologist for terrorists. From saheliwomen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:00:00 2008 From: saheliwomen at gmail.com (Saheli Women) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:00:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Saheli Newsletter - subscription information Message-ID: <12d068e70811302230v71ab7db1s90d68b5ec3f93dae@mail.gmail.com> *Saheli Newsletter - subscription information* Dear friends, Set up in 1981, Saheli is a non funded women's group that has been working on volunteer power, individual donation and support from friends like you. Working on a range of issues affecting women, Saheli in its 27 years of existence has responded to and been part of many campaigns against violence, resisting coercive population control policies and hazardous contraceptives, combating communalism. We work jointly with democratic rights groups, trade unions, party and non-party women's organisations, and are a part of queer, dalit and adivasi movements. Our Newsletter, both in English and in Hindi, has been a mirror of our work and also a means through which we try to take various debates to our readers. Being a non funded group your contribution by way of subscription has been important to sustain this activity. In order to support future issues and help us recover our printing and mailing costs, we request you to subscribe to our newsletter. You may also gift a subscription to your friends and/or relatives. Subscription details: 1 Year (3 issues): Rs. 75/- 2 Years (6 issues): Rs. 140/- 3 Years (9 issues): Rs. 200/- Payments may be made by Cash/MO/DD in favour of 'Saheli Women's Resource Centre'. For outstation cheques, please add Rs. 25. Kindly send your subscription with the following details: Name:_______ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________ Organisation: ____________ _________ _________ _________ ______ Postal Address with pin code:_______ _________ _________ ________ Telephone:__ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Email:______ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Newsletter in English or Hindi:______ _________ _________ ________ We hope that you will subscribe to our newsletter and continue to support our work. In solidarity, Deepti For Saheli Women's Resource Centre Above Unit 105-108 Defence Colony Flyover Market New Delhi 100 024 Contents of latest issue: 1. No refuge – the struggle of Burmese women in Delhi 2. The Bhopal gas victim's struggle in Delhi 3. Against skewed development – the struggle in Chengara 4. Key arguments in case against Sec. 377 5. Delhi discovers its queer pride 6. Queering the family – review of an exhibition 7. Against communal violence in Kandhamal 8. Saheli response to scheme for compensation for rape 9. Statement on the Jamia Nagar 'encounter' 10. Not again! – another government attempt to introduce Net-en 11. Remembering Suhas From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:41:18 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:41:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why the delay in hanging Afzal Guru? Message-ID: <6353c690811302311h6ea18a8audad05b06e21fdf0b@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Why_the_delay_in_hanging_Afzal_Guru/articleshow/3774792.cms *Why the delay in hanging Afzal Guru?* 30 Nov 2008, 0357 hrs IST, TNN Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text: NEW DELHI: A terrorist has been on the death row for three years now. Had he been hanged after fair trail and all due review, it might have sent out the message that India was going to be tough on terror. Since September, 2005, when SC dismissed petitions seeking review of its judgement upholding the death sentence on Afzal Guru in the December 13, 2001, Parliament attack case, the convicted terrorist has been marking time in Tihar. Why the delay? Just ahead of his execution, scheduled for October 20, 2006, Afzal's family filed a clemency plea with the President (Abdul Kalam) who referred it to home ministry. The file was then sent to Delhi government under a provision that requires the views of the state where the crime has occurred. Delhi government has not been in any hurry to convey its view. In fact, the file has not moved at all. An impression has grown, in the meantime, that the delay is political. Afzal's sentencing triggered protests in Kashmir. J&K politicians like Omar Abdullah and Ghulam Nabi Azad have pleaded against hanging the convict. So has the PDP. On one occasion, home minister Shivraj Patil said that hanging Afzal would prejudice India's attempt to bring back Sarabjit, an Indian on the death row in Pakistan. Comparing Sarabjit, who India denies was a spy, and a key conspirator in the Parliament attack seemed completely out of place. Meanwhile, groups claiming that Afzal did not get a fair trial, said he did not get proper legal aid, that evidence against him was slim and he was framed by the J&K STF. The SC has dealt with the substantive points. It has noted that Afzal refused to appoint a lawyer. SC held Afzal guilty of conspiracy and planning a terror attack after knocking out his confessional statement. The evidence against Afzal is staggering. His mobile number, recovered from Mohammed, a slain terrorist who fell near Parliament's gate No 1, was a crucial breakthrough. The court said that even minutes before the attack, three calls were made by Mohammed to Afzal. Also, there was evidence that the mobile was being exchanged between Afzal and Mohammed and other terrorists. The court noted that an instrument used by Afzal till December 12, 2001 was recovered from a dead terrorist the next day. Also, there was recovery of explosives, fake uniforms, a key laptop and identification of Afzal by a landlord of a premise where the terrorists stayed. So, what is the Delhi government's view? From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:55:24 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:55:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Urgent In-Reply-To: <98f331e00811290755v1e7cdadatac8215ac9d44ec62@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00811290755v1e7cdadatac8215ac9d44ec62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690811302325y3bc1e681uaccadfb203d3474c@mail.gmail.com> Mehnga Padha 'Softness on Terrorism'. Now, we should wait for the Somalian Pirates to enter one night through the Gateway of India. Pathetic! On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 9:25 PM, prakash ray wrote: > Dear friends, > > Some perverts like Amaresh Misra and Dr. Babu Suseelan (Plz tell me abt > them... who they are?), and some others are spreading all kinds of rumours > and theories about the terror attak on Mumbai. If you get their mails or > their writings, please do not forward them. Please tell these people not to > do so. If they have information about the attacks, they must tell the > agencies. > > > It is time to stand united against terror. > > Mahangi padi..... > Mahangi padi..... > Sasti Hui Zindagi..... > > Prakash > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul From patrice at xs4all.nl Mon Dec 1 13:54:06 2008 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:24:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Reader-list] Gaurav Mishra: The Role of Citizen Journalism in the Aftermath of the 11/26 Mumbai Terror Attack Message-ID: <5380.86.91.173.154.1228119846.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> from Gaurav Mishra’s Weblog, dated November 30th, 2008 check original for all links, etc.): http://tinyurl.com/5layv3 The Role of Citizen Journalism in the Aftermath of the 11/26 Mumbai Terror Attack I have been tracking the role of citizen journalism in the 11/26 Mumbai terror attack in a timeline, a work-in-progress case study and a Flickr set of screenshots. Hundreds of people — led by Vinukumar Ranganathan, Dina Mehta and Peter Griffin — shared news and other useful information from Mumbai on Twitter, Flickr and their blogs. Several bloggers live-blogged the event while Global Voices and DesiPundit worked hard to highlight the best posts. However, even as we spent sleepless nights highlighting the most useful information on the Mumbai terror attack, several other people were busy spreading hate through some of the same online tools. I don’t think of myself as particularly political and, in three years of blogging, I haven’t written even one post that is political in nature. My first tendency is to shy away from participating in emotionally charged political discussions like the ones beginning to dominate the Indian blogosphere now. I’m sure many of you feel the same way. However, we will be doing ourselves great disservice if we step back and let the loonies take over. The 11/26 Mumbai terror attack is over, but the work of the online community in India is not over. We need to ensure that these extremist fundamentalist elements don’t spread hate in the aftermath of the attack. We need to ensure that several more innocent lives are not lost in a Hindu-Muslim riot or an India-Pakistan war triggered off by the 11/26 terror attack. We need to ensure that the upcoming Indian elections are not hijacked by extremist reactions to what happened in Mumbai. And, for those, who insist on comparing 11/26 to 9/11, we need to ensure that we remember to learn from America’s excesses post-9/11. Finally, we need to ensure that we come together and mobilize a more nuanced discussion on the 11/26 Mumbai terror attacks and drown out the voices of these extremist, fundamentalist elements. Here is what you can do – 1. Delete such extremist comments from your blog posts. If required, activated comment moderation for a week. I have already deleted close to a hundred such comments from my blog and activated comment moderation. 2. Do not link to sensationalist posts that spread hate or blame the government/ media/ security forces and propose conspiracy theories without offering constructive solutions. I would especially urge Global Voices and DesiPundit to refrain from linking to such posts. It’s not the time to highlight all perspectives, when some of these perspectives may result in more violence. 3. At the same time, do comment on as many of these extremist posts as you can, to temper the emotionally charged discussions with reason. You may receive some hate mail yourself, but that’s surely a small price to pay. 4. If you write a blog, write a post advocating a calm, sensitive approach to the 11/26 terror attack. It doesn’t matter if you have 10 readers or 10,000; even if your post has a calming influence on one person, you would have made a difference. 5. Link to posts and news article which promote such an approach, like these posts – Take the time to be a Mumbaikar rather than parasites that live off its resources. Stop looking the other way when unscrupulous politicians and crass media barons offend our sense of civility. Speak up when family, friends or colleagues voice their bigotry. Turn up to vote. Look at, really look, and listen to, and care about the people we share this city with. And keep doing it, whether anyone else does or not, whether the change it makes is visible or not, whether it makes headlines or not. Or, at the very least, stop the damned platitudes. (Ingrid Srinath) If the rest of the world wants to help, it should run toward the explosion. It should fly to Mumbai, and spend money. Where else are you going to be safe? New York? London? Madrid? So I’m booking flights to Mumbai. I’m going to go get a beer at the Leopold, stroll over to the Taj for samosas at the Sea Lounge, and watch a Bollywood movie at the Metro. (NYT op-ed from Suketu Mehta) What I would like to see is a grass-root, decentralized guerrilla movement of our own– Not one that equips youth, the lonely and the estranged with hatred, propaganda, fanaticism, weapon skills and fake passports, but one that equips (them) with an awareness of what it takes to preserve one’s home and city– the community skills and ideas that make individuals realize that they are the first care-taker and good neighbor, not the police, and that there is no entitlement to safety and well being based solely on social or income levels, anymore. (Priyanka Joseph) 6. Organize an event to show your support to the victims of the 11/26 terror attack or highlight such events organized by other — Nov 30 Tweetup at Leopold Cafe, Facebook Wear White Event, Facebook Support 11/26 Fighters Event. (Update: Here are two posts from Shefaly on understanding evil before choosing to ignore it or engage with it.) Let’s come together to shape a moderate, nuanced online discussion on the 11/26 Mumbai terror attack. Let’s come together to ensure that we don’t repeat the mistakes others have made after such tragedies. Let’s come together to bring back calm and peace to Mumbai. From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 15:33:32 2008 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:33:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Psyche and "terrorist" - Interview Himal Dec 08 In-Reply-To: <62aa83470812010107w5b4389e9i84e59c914989f2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <62aa83470812010107w5b4389e9i84e59c914989f2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <564b2fca0812010203r64e4a379kf2dd8ae72922f3c4@mail.gmail.com> This would interest some on this list. Naga ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rakesh Shukla HIMAL SOUTHASIAN DECEMBER 2008 Interview Stuart Twemlow The 'terrorist' is no fire-breathing dragon *By: Rakesh Shukla* In executing the 'Bali bombers' – Amrozi, Mukhlas and Samudra – on 9 November 2008, the Indonesian government seems to have fulfilled their desire to become martyrs. However, the executions demonstrated a lack of understanding of the motivations of those who conduct such attacks. The 7 July bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, the 13 September blasts in Delhi, the 20 September bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, the recent 26 November attacks in Bombay…the list in Southasia is expanding rapidly. And of course it was the LTTE in Sri Lanka which first engaged in systematic use of suicide bombers. The understanding of what makes a 'terrorist' is now a subject of research among academia worldwide. *Stuart W Twemlow *is a professor of psychiatry at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. An author of a number of books on the psychoanalytic understanding of 'terrorism', he is also a founding editor and editor-in-chief of The International Journal of Applied Psychoanalytic Studies, as well as president of the International Association for Applied Psychoanalytic Studies. In Delhi to attend a conference on hate and violence, he was interviewed by *Rakesh Shukla *about the making of a 'terrorist'. *How do you perceive 'terrorism' and 'terrorists'?* I see the 'terrorist' as an offspring of the prevalent social system. Fear, horror and shock which transfixes are characteristics of terror. I saw a woman four years after she had escaped from her husband who used to keep her chained to a chair, and she was still terrified that he would kill her. That is domestic terrorism, and the prevalence is 18,000 out of 100,000 families in the US alone. In the middle category are school shooters, classified by the FBI as 'anarchic terrorists'. On a bigger scale, terrorists consider themselves to be victims of humiliation by the enemy with incompatible political, religious or personal ideologies. The more terrifying the act, the more transfixing it becomes. *What are your thoughts on suicide bombers? * The 'suicide bomber' label, like 'terrorist', is always assigned to the other person – it is not a self-assigned role. Suicide bombers are like the kamikaze pilots of Japan during World War II. Similarly, during India's struggle for independence, thousands of people marched up as British soldiers fired on them. The individuals involved do not look upon the act as suicide, but as a mission of the group: the self ceases to exist and follows the leader, who is akin to a messiah. In the Jonestown incident in the US, more than 900 people, who hated the communists and the US, committed suicide at the behest of their leader. However, it is easier to control the minds of the young, and suicide bombers are generally in the 16-30 age group. I am yet to hear of a middle-aged suicide bomber. *How do you view terrorism from a psychoanalytical perspective?* I look upon terrorism as a process which involves conscious and unconscious group dynamics. From the rituals, myths and traumas of the past, the leader picks up what the psychoanalyst Volkan – who has worked for almost 50 years in conflict areas around the world – calls the 'chosen trauma'. The acts of violence are perpetrated from an 'avenging victim role', where a group as a collective entity feels wronged by another group, which it attacks to set the perceived injustices of the past right. Terrorism involves a devaluation of all human relationships. However, I never use the term 'terrorist' in negotiations, and nor do I use labels like bi-polar or schizophrenic for my patients. The use of a label is stigmatising, and more humanity is brought in by doing away with categorisation. Sometimes the 'terrorist' is viewed as a mentally ill person; however, there is no evidence to support this diagnosis. Jerald Post, a psychiatrist with affiliations to the CIA, who has probably examined more 'terrorists' than any other person, did not find any sign of mental illness. To prevent terrorism, one has to understand that the terrorist is trying to say something, which he believes in. A terrorist is a social activist gone wrong. *Could you elaborate on this unusual view of the 'terrorist' as a social activist gone wrong?* We must keep in mind that the definition of terrorism is influenced by the socio-political dynamics of the time. Yesterday's 'terrorists' may be tomorrow's heroes, as in the case of members of the French Revolution like Robespierre and other revolutionary leaders. I am sure there are people who are considered heroes today in independent India, but who were considered 'terrorists' by the British government. Yes, Bhagat Singh, considered one of the greatest heroes in India today, was executed by the British as a 'terrorist'. And the recent example of the Maoists in Nepal, who were declared 'terrorists' for years and have now formed the government. In some ways, the 'terrorist' is like a bottled-up activist with the idealism gone wrong. The environment of the activist is that of social acceptance, and the power dynamics for the social activist are non-coercive and respectful. The 'terrorist', however, comes from a dismissive home environment, rife with social isolation and disconnection, involving intolerance of diversity and coercive, humiliating power dynamics. Volkan, who has worked in the field of diplomacy for more than 40 years, posits the conception of the 'familiar enemy', which makes it easy to disavow one's own negative self representations, and mindlessly demonise 'the other'. The group needs and, in essence, organises itself through projection onto the enemy. Violence is the external act, while the internal state of the 'terrorist' is that of the avenging angel. *In India we often see the prejudice in the legal system caused by the label of 'terrorism'. How do you view law and terrorism?* In the US, the 'terrorist' is not treated as a prisoner with rights and access to constitutional and legal remedies. This has led to the detention of many people in Guantanamo Bay without trial. But in general, when the case of a political nature enters the courts, it causes a problem, particularly with regard to the intention to commit crime. The accused says that he or she has not committed a crime, but instead an act of patriotism, and will do it again. The psychiatrist declares that the individual is not mentally ill. It is something of a quandary for the judge and the legal system. *How do you suggest 'terrorism' be approached at the community and political levels?* One would need an army of psychoanalysts to treat at an individual level – a collective or community effort is required. Terrorism involves power dynamics of the victim-victimiser-bystander paradigm. The approach I recommend, and have used successfully in anti-bullying programmes in schools, is to transform the bystander into a community leader. This involves recognition within the community of the dissociated element – represented by the victim – as a part of themselves, about which they are anxious. Simultaneous recognition of the dissociating process represented by the victimiser as a defensive action, for which they are responsible, is needed. Also required is the provision and recognition of health and social services, as well as spirituality, education and law and order as community-stabilising systems. A symptomatic approach, looking upon the 'terrorist' action as a problem to be solved, is unhelpful. What is needed, rather, is viewing the 'terrorist' action as a dysfunctional solution which keeps a potentially more painful problem unseen. At a political level, statements about 'crushing terrorism' are counter-productive, and make no more sense than saying that bad temper can be eliminated. In fact, declarations of war inflate the grandiosity of the enemy by creating an oversimplified mindset towards the enemy, leading to notions like 'attaining favours in heaven', as in the case of suicide bombers. Statements heaping contempt on 'terrorists' further fuel the enemy's outrage. The only pragmatic way to proceed is one of negotiation, with the idea 'that there is no enemy' and of treating 'terrorists' as human beings with a cause. Thinking in terms of the enemy paradigm, like the US thinks about Hamas or al-Qaeda or the Taliban as 'terrorists', leads to a situation of no negotiation. If you consider the 'terrorist' as a fire-breathing dragon, then one cannot negotiate. The psychoanalyst brings in a broad idea of the unconscious and out-of-the-box thinking on board. I hope that India, with its new vitality and creativity, can realise this. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:01:35 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:31:35 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai Message-ID: This Joint Statement was released to the press simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 2008. Mumbai bloodbath We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of this heinous crime and express our solidarity with them. As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The enemies of peace and friendship between the two countries, whatever be the label under which they operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments and are hell bent on torpedoing them. We are of the considered opinion that the continued absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and within states - particularly in relation to India and Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the miseries the people of the region are made to endure. It is the major reason why our abundantly resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why militarism, religious and sectarian violence and political, economic and social injustice are eating into the very vitals of our societies, even after more than six decades of independence from colonial rule. At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for the people of our two countries but also for the whole of South Asia and the world. While the immediate responsibility for unmasking the culprits of Mumbai and taking them to task surely rests with the Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an obligation to join hands and go into the root causes of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people terror. It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of Pakistan and India that issuing statements and signing agreements and declarations will have meaning only when they are translated into action and implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the possibility that so many different forces prone to religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must open the eyes of our governments, if it has not already happened. We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to immediately take the following steps: 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each other; 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all shades in both countries; 3. Continue and intensify normalization of relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts between the two countries; 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between the two countries and in all of South Asia . We welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu is in the pipeline. 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and issue country-valid visa without restrictions at arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free travel regime, to encourage friendship between the peoples of both countries; 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First Use of atomic weapons; 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia nuclear-free; 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end to militarisation. Signatories: Pakistan 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of Pakistan 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for Peace & Development, Karachi 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental University , Karachi 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace Coalition, Islamabad 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, Sindh High Court Bar Association 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan Peace Coalition, Karachi 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , Founding member, PIPFPD 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan Workers Confederation, Sindh 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh Democratic Front, Hyderabad 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre ( Central Asia), Peshawar University 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National Assembly, Mirpur Khas 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia Partnership (PAK), Lahore 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, Karachi 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular Studies, Lahore 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, Hyderabad 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , Pakistan Trade Union Federation 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress Communication Pakistan , Karachi 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food Workers (IUF), Karachi 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor Mahaz-e-Amal 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, Multan India 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High Commissioner, UK., Delhi 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former Member, Planning Commission, Delhi 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University of Mumbai 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern Social Research Centre , Assam , 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers Action Committee, Mumbai 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:46:02 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:46:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> All this is fine. Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of reconciliation can be started. Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and did not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred shrine of Sharda.) I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to Sharda but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side and India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. Rashneek On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > This Joint Statement was released to the press > simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 > 2008. > > > Mumbai bloodbath > > > We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody > mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a > hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries > to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of > panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We > convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies > to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of > this heinous crime and express our solidarity with > them. > > > > As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating > about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of > barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved > in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits > behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish > to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this > point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it > be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the > day the Home Secretaries of the two countries > concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced > several concrete steps to move forward in the peace > process, such as the opening of several land routes > for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, > relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal > policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint > efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a > coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign > Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding > very useful and productive talks with his Indian > counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The > enemies of peace and friendship between the two > countries, whatever be the label under which they > operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments > and are hell bent on torpedoing them. > > > > We are of the considered opinion that the continued > absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and > within states - particularly in relation to India and > Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the > miseries the people of the region are made to endure. > It is the major reason why our abundantly > resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, > unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why > militarism, religious and sectarian violence and > political, economic and social injustice are eating > into the very vitals of our societies, even after more > than six decades of independence from colonial rule. > > > > At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing > we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to > do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming > majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently > desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be > pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both > sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India > and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with > concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in > the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for > the people of our two countries but also for the whole > of South Asia and the world. While the immediate > responsibility for unmasking the culprits of Mumbai > and taking them to task surely rests with the > Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an > obligation to join hands and go into the root causes > of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and > emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people > terror. > > > > It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of > Pakistan and India that issuing statements and > signing agreements and declarations will have meaning > only when they are translated into action and > implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without > any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in > the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the > possibility that so many different forces prone to > religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance > and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves > with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass > murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must > open the eyes of our governments, if it has not > already happened. > > > > We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to > immediately take the following steps: > > > > 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each > other; > 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all > shades in both countries; > 3. Continue and intensify normalization of > relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts > between the two countries; > 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between > the two countries and in all of South Asia . We > welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and > Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and > that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu > is in the pipeline. > 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of > issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and > issue country-valid visa without restrictions at > arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary > steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free > travel regime, to encourage friendship between the > peoples of both countries; > 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First > Use of atomic weapons; > 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia > nuclear-free; > 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end > to militarisation. > > > > Signatories: > > > Pakistan > > > > 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights > Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of > Pakistan > 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for > Peace & Development, Karachi > 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental > University , Karachi > 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace > Coalition, Islamabad > 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, > Sindh High Court Bar Association > 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan > Peace Coalition, Karachi > 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , > Founding member, PIPFPD > 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan > Workers Confederation, Sindh > 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan > Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi > 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh > Democratic Front, Hyderabad > 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre > ( Central Asia), Peshawar University > 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National > Assembly, Mirpur Khas > 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia > Partnership (PAK), Lahore > 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, > Karachi > 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi > 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular > Studies, Lahore > 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi > 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh > Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, > Hyderabad > 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi > 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi > 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , > Pakistan Trade Union Federation > 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress > Communication Pakistan , Karachi > 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore > 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi > 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food > Workers (IUF), Karachi > 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi > 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor > Mahaz-e-Amal > 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, > Multan > > > > > > India > > > > 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High > Commissioner, UK., Delhi > 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former > Member, Planning Commission, Delhi > 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai > 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi > 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune > 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra > 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai > 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai > 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi > 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai > 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai > 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi > 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai > 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University > of Mumbai > 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai > 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai > 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi > 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai > 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited > 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern > Social Research Centre , Assam , > 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar > 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai > 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai > 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai > 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers > Action Committee, Mumbai > 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai > 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD > 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad > 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi > 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From appu.es at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:47:57 2008 From: appu.es at gmail.com (Appu Esthose Suresh) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:47:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Story about how the premier intelligence agency is being destroyed. Message-ID: <4b1e36590812010317u7cfe8548s713acee17b0c6439@mail.gmail.com> Enough is Enough!! http://covert.co.in/cover.htm Issue 10, 1 October-14 October THE [RAW] TRUTH India's premier intelligence agency is being destroyed by suicidal leadership and internal conflict, and no one seems to care. This report has been put together on the basis of information provided anonymously By A Special Correspondent The murmurs have become a shout, but no one is listening. The Government has decided to ignore the unrest that has built up to a crisis in India's prime external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing [RAW]. The symptoms of a deep malaise have been evident. The flight of senior operative Rabinder Singh to the United States in early May 2004 made the headlines, but the Government put a tight lid on this episode, instituting a formal case against him only recently, four years after the event, when it was meaningless. Singh had been caught sending hard information out and was placed under surveillance. Shockingly, the surveillance was withdrawn from his residence for reasons not explained, and Singh fled to Nepal from where he was taken to the United States, where he lives with his family. The Government here is aware of his whereabouts. Unconfirmed allegations that he was tipped off by insiders, or his American minders, or both, continue to make the rounds, but the agency has failed to pinpoint the source or even ask itself why Singh's flight has not elicited a strong response and action. The Rabinder Singh case also highlights the breakdown of the Counter Intelligence Security Division [CIS], popularly known as "mole watchers". His colleagues had detected a change in his lifestyle in the late Nineties, with more parties and visits abroad. His sister was an employee of the US Agency for International Development, but Singh's interaction with her was not monitored by the CIS. The division did not scan the visits of senior RAW officials holding sensitive posts to his house for lavish parties. Sources said that apart from sending out hard information, Singh might also have brought in other "moles" into the service, but little has been done on this front. There are fears that these "moles" may still be around, and many years later reach senior, more sensitive positions. Instead the Government, at the time, rushed to close Singh's file, dismissing him from service in the process. It registered a formal case against him only recently. Sources pointed out that such punishment was "illusory" as it entailed forfeiture of Singh's pension but blocked any further inquiry into his activities and the long-term damage he might have inflicted on RAW. A more worrisome indicator is, ironically enough, the appointment of the present RAW chief, Ashok Chaturvedi. Passed over for promotion, with a history of adverse ACRs [Annual Confidential Reports] he became chief at the instance of Cabinet Secretary B.K. Chaturvedi last year. They are related. National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan is known to be particularly critical of Chaturvedi who has limited operational experience. The NSA has admonished him at meetings in front of others. According to a RAW insider, Narayanan once asked him to clean his mouth of tobacco while he was speaking "incoherently" of the security challenges faced by India, at a closed door meeting of top officials recently. Chaturvedi did so, and resumed speaking, only to be told by the NSA that he was making more sense while his mouth was full of tobacco. Despite this, Chaturvedi has been able to override internal protests, accusations and petitions. Insiders admit that "This is baffling, we really do not know what his clout is." Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is even reported to have agreed to his removal at one stage, but soon after changed his mind. The reasons for the somersault were not explained. Chaturvedi, sources said, met Congress president Sonia Gandhi and the matter was referred to the NSA. No action has been taken against him, and he is all set to complete his term in office, which ends in January 2009. Chaturvedi is not popular with his colleagues, and has acquired the reputation of being "extremely petty". He is also being credited within the service of a certain "lack of preparation" in his interaction with other departments. He is insecure in his post and plays favourites. He does not allow free discussion within the organisation and is said to have helped "perhaps more than others" in hastening the transition of RAW from an "eclectic service to a babu organisation". The third symptom is the more recent attempt by RAW director Nisha Bhatia to commit suicide in protest against sexual harassment. Her initial case was against Joint Secretary Sunil Uke who she claimed had offered her Rs 30,000 to sleep with him; but when she brought it to the notice of the RAW chief she was allegedly told to "keep quiet and accept the situation". Chaturvedi did not act on the complaint and when a letter written by Nisha Bhatia to the Joint Secretary, Cabinet Secretariat, asking him to bring the matter to the notice of Secretary [R] was referred to him, he wrote back, "Please call both the concerned officials and sort out the problem. I don't wish to be disturbed on such issues." Bhatia now finds herself being "chased" by inquiry committees ever since she complained that Chaturvedi had also harassed her since 2005. She has cited his comments in representations to senior officials within RAW where she has accused Chaturvedi of "repeatedly telling me to use my *jawani *and *khubsoorti *and the glow on my face to find the right *aadmi *for myself rather than concentrate on my career and children". She has maintained that her telephones are being tapped, she is being followed, and all her perquisites have been removed since she sought justice. Chaturvedi tried to label her as "mentally unstable" but the campaign did not succeed as Bhatia has worked with RAW for 20 years and has the reputation of being a "competent" officer. Several former RAW officials who have worked with her confirmed this. Bhatia is determined to fight till the bitter end, and is moving the courts for redressal. Chaturvedi, on the other hand, is equally determined to get her out and is reported to be preparing the ground through yet another internal enquiry for this. Insiders claimed that orders for her dismissal had already been issued as a precursor to prosecuting her and eventually putting the lid on yet another internal scandal. The skeletons continue to mount. The organisation is falling apart. Insiders are writing and circulating notes in a bid to invite attention and action, but the Prime Minister's Office is blank. No one in Government seems to be interested, not even the NSA. Informed sources said that this was largely because Narayanan, unlike his predecessor J.N. Dixit, was of the view that the bifurcation of intelligence gathering into the internal Intelligence Bureau and the external RAW was a "historical mistake". It seems he would not mind the demise of RAW as that could facilitate a decision to re-merge the two agencies. Bhatia met Narayanan but has been left at the mercy of the RAW chief who she believes is as guilty as Sunil Uke, and not an impartial officer in her case. The Research and Analysis Wing was set up in September 1968 to collect external intelligence, counter terrorism and initiate covert operations. It was visualised as an agency that would obtain and analyse information not just about foreign Governments but also of corporations and relevant individuals and provide valuable inputs into Government policy decisions. Jawaharlal Nehru mooted the idea, and Indira Gandhi gave it concrete shape, with R.N. Kao being transferred from the Intelligence Bureau that earlier handled both external and internal intelligence, to head the new agency. >From a 250-employee wing jocularly known after its founder as the "Kaoboys", it has grown to a several-thousand personnel organisation with a healthy annual budget. To ensure continuity and specialisation, RAW envisaged officers on deputation from various other services who would be given the option of leaving their parent service and opting for the newly created RAW Administrative Service or RAS. A handful of specialists, or "suitable" persons, were quietly recruited directly every year and imparted language and espionage training. This system worked reasonably well till the early Nineties. To ensure service continuity the policy of "permanent secondment" was introduced in 2003 by RAW Director C.D. Sahay who felt that the organisation was not attracting the "right" talent and that IPS officials should be allowed an open ended contract to serve inside RAW until they were considered "suitable". In an attempt at self-preservation and self-perpetuation, the IPS that dominates RAW selectively changed the rules in its favour. In short, if any IPS officer felt his chances of advancement in RAW were feeble, he could then opt to return to his state cadre. The IPS has a similar "revolving door" deal within the IB too. But this sharpened the conflict between the RAS cadres and those on deputation, with the former terming this decision as the genesis for the prevailing decay in the organisation. RAW insiders pointed out that from a "super specialist service, its character has changed permanently to an *aayaram gayaram *service", dominated by the police. Sources said that these IPS officials avoided language courses resulting in a severe shortage of much needed specialists like Mandarin and Farsi speakers. "RAS recruits are taught to be fluent in the concerned language, but the police and others coming here with the option of going back to their parent cadre, feel such rigours are not necessary," sources said. Hardly any recent IPS deputationist, sources said, had acquired foreign language skills till the interpreter level during his or her tenure in RAW. Interestingly, the Joint Secretary charged with sexual harassment by Nisha Bhatia was from the Customs service and has since reverted to his parent cadre minus any language expertise. RAS direct recruits undergo three years of training in languages, covert tradecraft and combat skills before being confirmed in their jobs. IPS officers joining the agency come with high-handed investigative experience and knowledge of operating sources, but critics are of the view that they fall far short of the specialised and esoteric requirements of the RAW. The organisation's presence in China and strategically important West and Central Asia stands depreciated by the lack of officers with language skills. There have been embarrassing incidents in recent weeks when RAW officials posted in missions abroad had to be recalled because their cover had been blown due to "honey traps"; in which they were compromised through sexual favours by enemy plants. Over the years, over 30 RAW operatives, some in highly sensitive regions, have stayed behind in their last overseas postings while headquarters in Delhi ignored such transgressions in yet another bid to paper over embarrassing lapses of discipline and service rules. Poor planning and administration have also worked to ensure that RAW lags behind other covert services. It has no system of qualitative requirements for assignment overseas, opening the way for patronage, nepotism and influence to shape postings. RAW has autonomy over its vast and highly costly procurements. Over the past decade in particular, several single vendor contracts in favour of Israeli and German sellers have been entered into with all accepted procurement norms being completely violated in the process. There is a rising demand for parliamentary oversight of RAW to ensure at least some level of honesty and accountability. But attempts to push this through in the past have been successfully derailed. Accountability is something RAW is obviously uncomfortable with. Operationally too the entire service remains demoralised, with few missions offering worthwhile information. Chaturvedi is seen as paranoid, and a report in the *Middle East Times *suggested that Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai was once particularly unhappy with Chaturvedi's "abrasive manner" and even complained to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh about this. Currently, RAW has been further paralysed by a fierce war of succession for the top job. In the race are Sanjeev Tripathi, Rana Baneerjee and P.V. Kumar. Tripathi, an IPS officer from the Uttar Pradesh cadre, enjoys Chaturvedi's support and is the son-in-law of G.S. Bajpai who headed RAW briefly between 1990-1991. Rana Banerjee is an IAS officer from Assam who has been in RAW for 25 years, and is said to have a good rapport with Minister of External Affairs Pranab Mukherjee. Chaturvedi recommended Banerjee for the largely ceremonial post of Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee. This was widely seen as a move to get Banerjee out of the organisation, but it failed as Banerjee refused to leave. Kumar, on the other hand, is a RAS officer, and though godfather-less enjoys support from within the organisation as a fair minded, apolitical professional. He is described as a highly competent officer, and an expert on China and Pakistan. But given the absence of political clout and the lobbying skills of his rivals, he is likely to retire in his current post of Additional Secretary sometime in early 2009 [¼] CIVIL WAR BEFUDDLES INTELLIGENCE BODIES Bureaucratic wrangling and turf battles exacerbated by budgetary squabbles continue to hamper India's intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance [ISR] capabilities, split between the Research and Analysis Wing [RAW] and the newly created equally secretive National Technical Research Organisation [NTRO]. The rivalry between the two arbitrary organisations, given their duplication of tasks and complete lack of independent oversight was also adversely impinging on intelligence collation. This has contributed to the total failure of intelligence in domestic terrorism. The NTRO, created after the partial revamp of India's security grid following the 1999 Kargil invasion to collate technical intelligence through satellites and varied ISR measures, is engaged in debilitating competition with RAW's Aviation Research Centre [ARC], responsible for monitoring the Pakistani and Chinese borders. The ARC's assets of ageing fixed wing transport and light aircraft like Russian IL 76s and AN32s and General Dynamics Gulfstream III/SRA-1s and upgraded US-made Gulfstream IV/SRA-4 jets and obsolete helicopter fleet are tasked with gathering "actionable" information via airborne signal intelligence operations and photo reconnaissance flights along troublesome frontiers. ARC inputs constitute the bulk of the monthly intelligence forecasts to India's services, particularly the Army, on the Pakistani and Chinese military's order of battle and tables of organisation. Its responsibilities also include detailing the neighbours' immediate military capabilities, organisational structure, mission essential personnel and current equipment deployment. But the creation of the capital-intensive NTRO six years ago brought it directly into conflict with the ARC that perceives it as a threat to its continued existence. The ARC fears the NTRO spells its eventual demise as it occupies itself with systematically acquiring assets like unmanned aerial vehicles [UAVs], aerostat radar systems and augmenting satellite capability to provide electronic intelligence to a variety of clients like the military, RAW, the Intelligence Bureau and the foreign and defence ministries. A proposal to merge the ARC with the NTRO, which many insiders believe would be "highly practicable", was recommended strongly by a recently retired RAW chief, but it is nowhere near fruition as it would degrade "empires" within the security agency. As an indicator attempts by the NTRO in 2006 to acquire five ISR aircraft capable of operating at over 41,000 feet from either Canada's Bombardier or France's Dassault have, for now, been successfully thwarted by the ARC. The NTRO's bid to induct the aircraft following extensive trials of the competing platforms in Leh and a routine flight from New Delhi to Kolkata last year are presently under "review" by National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan following opposition from an insecure ARC. Aircraft induction by the NTRO, RAW insiders believe, would be the "beginning of the ARC's end". Acquisition of crucial missile monitoring equipment for the NTRO is also a long way from closure, with only the request for information for it having been dispatched some two years ago to vendors in Belarus, France, Israel, Russia and Ukraine. But ARC objections on the NTRO acquiring UAVs had been overruled and six Israel Aerospace Industries [IAI]-built Heron 1s worth US $80 million are expected to arrive in early 2009 to be based at Hindon near Delhi and close to Dehra Dun for deployment along the northern and western borders. Plans to acquire four Israeli aerostat radar systems were also under active consideration. Leasing capacity on Israel's Ofeq-5 military satellite by the NTRO and the launch earlier this year by the Space Research Organisation of an IAI-designed TecSAR military satellite, capable of accurate mapping and three-dimensional modelling capability of the mountainous Kashmir terrain, further threaten to degrade the ARC's efficacy and relevance. "The ARC's significance is in inverse proportion to the NTRO's proliferating operational capabilities," an official source said declining to be named. But till the RAW's ethos of "empire building" persisted, it was unlikely to relinquish control of the ARC or agree to its merger with the NTRO resulting in operational duplication and wasteful expenditure. "The output by the ARC's fleet of obsolete, lumbering aircraft fitted with outdated Western surveillance sensors and optical electronic systems that are capable of limited penetration into enemy territory remain restrictive in a real time situation," a senior military officer who has dealt with the ARC said. Other sources declared that the 46-year-old ARC's output with analogue- and not digital-capability that was desperately in need of upgrading, not only "diluted immediate operational utility", but also made the images and accompanying analysis "tactically unsound". Security and military sources dismissed the ARC as a "stove pipe" operation in India's overall intelligence gathering apparatus, accusing it of operating in a "vacuum" and producing little of "operational value". They dismiss its output as little better than "pretty pictures" that provided the military with limited tactical input. Headed by S.K. Tripathi, a senior IPS officer absorbed like many others over the past four decades into the RAW, and under consideration to head the agency early next year, the ARC was established in 1962 with help from the US' Central Intelligence Agency [CIA], nervous about China, and with political prodding by the late Biju Patnaik, former head of the transport wing of the Royal Indian Air Force during World War II. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:48:32 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:18:32 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rashneek The statement was signed by individuals, not the Pakistan or Indian state. It seems your questions are addressed towards the Pakistan government, as such they are not really a response to the letter. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:16 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > All this is fine. > Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to > Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other > parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of > reconciliation can be started. > Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute > what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists > had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and did > not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not > Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite > dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved > any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was > allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred > shrine of Sharda.) > I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to Sharda > but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side and > India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. > > Rashneek > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen > wrote: >> >> This Joint Statement was released to the press >> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >> 2008. >> >> >> Mumbai bloodbath >> >> >> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >> them. >> >> >> >> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >> process, such as the opening of several land routes >> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >> countries, whatever be the label under which they >> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >> >> >> >> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >> within states - particularly in relation to India and >> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >> It is the major reason why our abundantly >> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >> political, economic and social injustice are eating >> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >> >> >> >> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >> responsibility for unmasking the culprits of Mumbai >> and taking them to task surely rests with the >> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >> terror. >> >> >> >> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >> only when they are translated into action and >> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >> possibility that so many different forces prone to >> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >> already happened. >> >> >> >> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >> immediately take the following steps: >> >> >> >> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >> other; >> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >> shades in both countries; >> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >> between the two countries; >> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >> is in the pipeline. >> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >> peoples of both countries; >> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >> Use of atomic weapons; >> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >> nuclear-free; >> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >> to militarisation. >> >> >> >> Signatories: >> >> >> Pakistan >> >> >> >> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >> Pakistan >> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >> Peace & Development, Karachi >> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >> University , Karachi >> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >> Coalition, Islamabad >> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >> Sindh High Court Bar Association >> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >> Peace Coalition, Karachi >> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >> Founding member, PIPFPD >> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >> Workers Confederation, Sindh >> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >> Karachi >> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >> Studies, Lahore >> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >> Hyderabad >> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >> Workers (IUF), Karachi >> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >> Mahaz-e-Amal >> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >> Multan >> >> >> >> >> >> India >> >> >> >> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >> of Mumbai >> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >> Social Research Centre , Assam , >> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >> Action Committee, Mumbai >> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:51:39 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:51:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120812010321s235925c1n1fc34d3ef0391a9d@mail.gmail.com> My dear Friend, They were addressed to none and to everyone .Just thinking aloud. Best Rashneek On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Dear Rashneek > The statement was signed by individuals, not the Pakistan or Indian > state. It seems your questions are addressed towards the Pakistan > government, as such they are not really a response to the letter. > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:16 PM, rashneek kher wrote: > > All this is fine. > > Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to > > Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other > > parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of > > reconciliation can be started. > > Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute > > what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists > > had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > > Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and > did > > not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not > > Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite > > dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved > > any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was > > allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred > > shrine of Sharda.) > > I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to > Sharda > > but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side > and > > India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen < > naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> This Joint Statement was released to the press > >> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 > >> 2008. > >> > >> > >> Mumbai bloodbath > >> > >> > >> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody > >> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a > >> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries > >> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of > >> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We > >> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies > >> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of > >> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with > >> them. > >> > >> > >> > >> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating > >> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of > >> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved > >> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits > >> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish > >> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this > >> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it > >> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the > >> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries > >> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced > >> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace > >> process, such as the opening of several land routes > >> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, > >> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal > >> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint > >> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a > >> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign > >> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding > >> very useful and productive talks with his Indian > >> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The > >> enemies of peace and friendship between the two > >> countries, whatever be the label under which they > >> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments > >> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. > >> > >> > >> > >> We are of the considered opinion that the continued > >> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and > >> within states - particularly in relation to India and > >> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the > >> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. > >> It is the major reason why our abundantly > >> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, > >> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why > >> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and > >> political, economic and social injustice are eating > >> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more > >> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. > >> > >> > >> > >> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing > >> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to > >> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming > >> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently > >> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be > >> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both > >> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India > >> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with > >> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in > >> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for > >> the people of our two countries but also for the whole > >> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate > >> responsibility for unmasking the culprits of Mumbai > >> and taking them to task surely rests with the > >> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an > >> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes > >> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and > >> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people > >> terror. > >> > >> > >> > >> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of > >> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and > >> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning > >> only when they are translated into action and > >> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without > >> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in > >> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the > >> possibility that so many different forces prone to > >> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance > >> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves > >> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass > >> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must > >> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not > >> already happened. > >> > >> > >> > >> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to > >> immediately take the following steps: > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each > >> other; > >> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all > >> shades in both countries; > >> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of > >> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts > >> between the two countries; > >> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between > >> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We > >> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and > >> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and > >> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu > >> is in the pipeline. > >> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of > >> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and > >> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at > >> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary > >> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free > >> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the > >> peoples of both countries; > >> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First > >> Use of atomic weapons; > >> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia > >> nuclear-free; > >> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end > >> to militarisation. > >> > >> > >> > >> Signatories: > >> > >> > >> Pakistan > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights > >> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of > >> Pakistan > >> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for > >> Peace & Development, Karachi > >> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental > >> University , Karachi > >> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace > >> Coalition, Islamabad > >> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, > >> Sindh High Court Bar Association > >> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan > >> Peace Coalition, Karachi > >> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , > >> Founding member, PIPFPD > >> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan > >> Workers Confederation, Sindh > >> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan > >> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi > >> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh > >> Democratic Front, Hyderabad > >> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre > >> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University > >> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National > >> Assembly, Mirpur Khas > >> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia > >> Partnership (PAK), Lahore > >> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, > >> Karachi > >> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi > >> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular > >> Studies, Lahore > >> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi > >> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh > >> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, > >> Hyderabad > >> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi > >> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi > >> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , > >> Pakistan Trade Union Federation > >> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress > >> Communication Pakistan , Karachi > >> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore > >> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi > >> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food > >> Workers (IUF), Karachi > >> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi > >> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor > >> Mahaz-e-Amal > >> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, > >> Multan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> India > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High > >> Commissioner, UK., Delhi > >> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former > >> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi > >> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai > >> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi > >> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune > >> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra > >> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai > >> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai > >> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi > >> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai > >> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai > >> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi > >> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai > >> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University > >> of Mumbai > >> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai > >> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai > >> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi > >> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai > >> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited > >> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern > >> Social Research Centre , Assam , > >> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar > >> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai > >> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > >> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > >> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai > >> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai > >> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers > >> Action Committee, Mumbai > >> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai > >> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD > >> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad > >> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi > >> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > -- Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 19:19:12 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:49:12 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai References: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" Cc: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > All this is fine. > Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to > Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other > parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of > reconciliation can be started. > Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute > what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists > had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and > did > not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not > Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite > dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved > any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was > allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred > shrine of Sharda.) > I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to > Sharda > but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side and > India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. > > Rashneek > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen > wrote: > >> This Joint Statement was released to the press >> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >> 2008. >> >> >> Mumbai bloodbath >> >> >> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >> them. >> >> >> >> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >> process, such as the opening of several land routes >> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >> countries, whatever be the label under which they >> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >> >> >> >> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >> within states - particularly in relation to India and >> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >> It is the major reason why our abundantly >> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >> political, economic and social injustice are eating >> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >> >> >> >> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >> responsibility for unmasking the culprits of Mumbai >> and taking them to task surely rests with the >> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >> terror. >> >> >> >> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >> only when they are translated into action and >> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >> possibility that so many different forces prone to >> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >> already happened. >> >> >> >> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >> immediately take the following steps: >> >> >> >> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >> other; >> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >> shades in both countries; >> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >> between the two countries; >> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >> is in the pipeline. >> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >> peoples of both countries; >> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >> Use of atomic weapons; >> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >> nuclear-free; >> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >> to militarisation. >> >> >> >> Signatories: >> >> >> Pakistan >> >> >> >> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >> Pakistan >> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >> Peace & Development, Karachi >> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >> University , Karachi >> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >> Coalition, Islamabad >> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >> Sindh High Court Bar Association >> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >> Peace Coalition, Karachi >> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >> Founding member, PIPFPD >> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >> Workers Confederation, Sindh >> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >> Karachi >> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >> Studies, Lahore >> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >> Hyderabad >> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >> Workers (IUF), Karachi >> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >> Mahaz-e-Amal >> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >> Multan >> >> >> >> >> >> India >> >> >> >> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >> of Mumbai >> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >> Social Research Centre , Assam , >> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >> Action Committee, Mumbai >> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 19:25:44 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:55:44 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: <13df7c120812010316v35592e87obc894addffe897f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a positive development (even though it's miniscule)? Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be greeted by the same language? On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash wrote: > There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several > times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP > government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom > against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends > with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > >> All this is fine. >> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to >> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other >> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >> reconciliation can be started. >> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute >> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists >> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and >> did >> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved >> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was >> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >> shrine of Sharda.) >> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >> Sharda >> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side and >> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >> >> Rashneek >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >> wrote: >> >>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>> 2008. >>> >>> >>> Mumbai bloodbath >>> >>> >>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>> them. >>> >>> >>> >>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>> >>> >>> >>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>> terror. >>> >>> >>> >>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>> only when they are translated into action and >>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>> already happened. >>> >>> >>> >>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>> immediately take the following steps: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>> other; >>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>> shades in both countries; >>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>> between the two countries; >>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>> is in the pipeline. >>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>> peoples of both countries; >>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>> Use of atomic weapons; >>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>> nuclear-free; >>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>> to militarisation. >>> >>> >>> >>> Signatories: >>> >>> >>> Pakistan >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>> Pakistan >>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>> University , Karachi >>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>> Coalition, Islamabad >>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>> Karachi >>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>> Studies, Lahore >>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>> Hyderabad >>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>> Multan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> India >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>> of Mumbai >>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rashneek Kher >> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 20:08:47 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:38:47 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Jihad's True Face (NY Times) Message-ID: OP-ED COLUMNIST. Jihad's True Face. By WILLIAM KRISTOL. Much of the reporting from Mumbai the last few days has been informative, gripping and often moving. Some of the commentary, on the other hand, has been not just uninformative but counterinformative -- if that's a term, and if it's not, I say it should be. Consider first an op-ed article in Sunday's Los Angeles Times by Martha Nussbaum, a well-known professor of law and ethics at the University of Chicago. The article was headlined 'Terrorism in India has many faces. But one face that Nussbaum fails to mention specifically is that of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Islamic terror group originating in Pakistan that seems to have been centrally involved in the attack on Mumbai. This is because Nussbaum's main concern is not explaining or curbing Islamic terror. Rather, she writes that 'if, as now seems likely, last week's terrible events in Mumbai were the work of Islamic terrorists, that's more bad news for India's minority Muslim population. She deplores past acts of Hindu terror against India's Muslims. She worries about Muslim youths being rounded up on suspicion of terrorism with little or no evidence. And she notes that this is 'an analogue to the current ugly phenomenon of racial profiling in the United States. So jihadists kill innocents in Mumbai -- and Nussbaum ends up decrying racial profiling here. Is it just that liberal academics are required to include some alleged ugly American phenomenon in everything they write? Jim Leach is also a professor, at Princeton, but he's better known as a former moderate Republican congressman from Iowa who supported Barack Obama this year. His contribution over the weekend was to point out on Politico.com that 'the Mumbai catastrophe underscores the importance of vocabulary. This wouldn't have been my first thought. But Leach believes it's very important that we consider the Mumbai attack not as an act of 'war' but as an act of 'barbarism. Why? The former implies a cause: a national or tribal or ethnic rationale that infuses a sacrificial action with some group's view of heroism; the latter is an assault on civilized values, everyone's. ... To the degree barbarism is a part of the human condition, Mumbai must be understood not just as an act related to a particular group but as an outbreak of pent-up irrationality that can occur anywhere, anytime. ... It may be true that the perpetrators viewed themselves as somehow justified in attacking Indians and visiting foreigners, particularly perhaps Americans, British and Israeli nationals. But a response that is the least nationalistic is likely to be the most effective. If, as Leach says, 'it may be true' the perpetrators viewed themselves as justified in their attacks, doesn't this mean that they did in fact have a 'rationale' that 'infused' their action? But Leach doesn't want to discuss that rationale -- even though it's not hard to find. Ten minutes of Googling will bring you to a fine article, 'The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups,' from the April 2005 issue of Current Trends in Islamist Ideology. It's by the respected journalist and diplomat Husain Haqqani, who, as it happens, is now Pakistan's ambassador to the United States. Lashkar-e-Taiba, Haqqani explains, is a jihadi group of Wahhabi persuasion, 'backed by Saudi money and protected by Pakistani intelligence services. He notes that 'Lashkar-e-Taiba has adopted a maximalist agenda for global jihad. Indeed, the political arm of the group has conveniently published a pamphlet, 'Why Are We Waging Jihad? ,' that lays out all kinds of reasons why the United States, Israel and India are 'existential enemies of Islam. So much for Leach's notion that the Mumbai terrorists had no 'cause' or 'rationale. But Leach's refusal to see this is in the service of persuading India not to respond in a 'nationalistic' way -- and of persuading the United States not to see itself primarily as standing with India against our common enemies. But if terror groups are to be defeated, it is national governments that will have to do so. In nations like India (and the United States), governments will have to call on the patriotism of citizens to fight the terrorists. In a nation like Pakistan, the government will have to be persuaded to deal with those in their midst who are complicit. This can happen if those nations' citizens decide they don't want their own country to be dishonored by allegiances with terror groups. Otherwise, other nations may have to act. Patriotism is an indispensable weapon in the defense of civilization against barbarism. That was brought home over the weekend in an article in The Times of India on Sandeep Unnikrishnan, a major in India's National Security Guards who died fighting the terrorists at the Taj hotel. The reporter spoke with the young man's parents as they mourned their son: 'His father, dignified in the face of such a personal tragedy, was stoic, saying he was proud of his son who sacrificed his life for the country: 'He died for the nation.' From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 20:31:59 2008 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:31:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Urgent In-Reply-To: <341380d00812010044m4e9d69d8mac312dfd68fb18e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00811290755v1e7cdadatac8215ac9d44ec62@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690811302325y3bc1e681uaccadfb203d3474c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00812010044m4e9d69d8mac312dfd68fb18e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00812010701k365666e7jf2827833d2334821@mail.gmail.com> On 12/1/08, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > Dear who-ever is reading this mail, > > for the past one week, like a dumb spectator i witnessed exchange of > e-mails discussing terror, religion, war and bombs. As a 26 year old, I also > feel that i should share with you what these words mean to me. > > War: A chauvinistic, primitive exercise of asserting one's might over > another set of people. While wars lead to a unprecendent rise in > industrialisation, the reforms during wartime are sectarian complemented > with swinish behaviour. the only enemy during the war time is defeatism. it > operate on the premise: that if you cannot accomplish something, you must > achieve it through force. > > Terror: A feeling of anxiety laced with fear. For example, Trying to know > if it was Osama or the oil companies or the sangh pariwar or the luxury > sector is behind the attacks. Understanding terror is addictive. People get > high on blood spilled over that anger -- the rage makes you assertive -- > helps you in choosing, making quick statements irresponsibly. Terror is also > a lucrative phenomenon for many human beings, especially insurance sector. > It also brings people together and say: "Did you see that?" > > Religion: Religiousity is this: "Let's see who is more righteous. I believe > in God better than you do. I know how to enter my temple, read my Psalms and > I also know what to wear on a palm sunday or fast for a whole month. > Remember if you dont do this, you are not faithful to your community. you > are an outcast. Even so, A microphone helps me to communicate with the > higher self -- which could have been by default, the inner self as well. No > please dont ask questions about religion. see its all written, so please > shut up." > > Bombs: is it true that deflated egoes, inflated passions leads to a > bomb? But painting the town red without killing any one or bursting a dung > bomb is a better and safer way to make a statement would not be considered > terroristic enough. so dear truth seeker, bombs are not propaganda -- it is > utterly stupid. dont let mr politician to use it as a propaganda. in case if > the person is still doing it, then you can ask him if he wasnt the guy who > planted the bomb, now that he is seeking votes in the name of a bomb blast. > > Thanks > anupam > From jo at turbulence.org Mon Dec 1 01:00:22 2008 From: jo at turbulence.org (Jo-Anne Green) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:30:22 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Campaign for Sustainability Message-ID: <005e01c95322$1783b1f0$468b15d0$@org> Dear Friends, We are well into our annual Fundraising Campaign. Once again, we need your support. Several artists have donated prints, posters, books, musical scores, DVDs and more (http://turbulence.org/fundraiser_08). PLEASE MAKE A DONATION NOW! (tax deductible for US residents). No amount is too small! Pay via the PayPal button on the Turbulence homepage: http://turbulence.org. Or send a check to New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., 124 Bourne Street, MA 02131. Thanks for your generous support. Warm Regards, Jo-Anne Green and Helen Thorington Co-Directors New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From jo at turbulence.org Mon Dec 1 01:00:33 2008 From: jo at turbulence.org (Jo-Anne Green) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:30:33 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Networked: a (networked_book) about (networked_art) Message-ID: <005f01c95322$1d1a5bf0$574f13d0$@org> Networked: a (networked_book) about (networked_art) A Juried International Competition Call for Proposals Deadline: December 15, 2008 http://turbulence.org/networked Five writers will be commissioned to develop chapters for a networked book about networked art. The chapters will be open for revision, commentary, and translation by online collaborators. Each commissioned writer will receive $3,000 (US). More info: http://turbulence.org/networked Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Dec 1 13:40:52 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:10:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_4th_series_of_ne?= =?iso-8859-1?q?w_interviews_on_VIP?= Message-ID: <20081201091052.85F86FF1.C722F7BA@192.168.0.3> VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project http://vip.newmediafest.org/ published the 4th series of interviews with new videoartists // David Jakubovic (USA), Miri Nishri (Israel), Irina Novarese (Italy) Nicole Rademacher (USA), Arthur Reynolds (USA) Daniel Rodrigo (Spain), Pekka Ruuska (FI), Mark Ramsel Salvatus (Philippines) Antti Savela (Sweden), Daniel Slattnes (Norway, Sumit Roy (India), Daniel Tesy (Hungary) \\ During the following weeks until the official online launch of CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival 4th edition - "Here We Are!" - on 11 December 2008 http://coff.newmediafest.org - each week another couple of new interviews will be posted. See you next week! ------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------- corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nehal7 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:49:17 2008 From: nehal7 at yahoo.com (Nehal Gandhi) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:19:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Should we sleep? Message-ID: <805830.37446.qm@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My family friend's 17-year old daughter pens down an ode and raises a question that requires a justified answer. Are we prepared to give an answer to the coming generation who looks up to us for direction, advise and leadership or are we also termed as the 'spineless' creatures just like our predecessors? Can You Sleep? You hear gunshots in places you had dinner last week, >From a window, you seek blood leak. You hear live gunshots, explosions and screams. Outside your window, you see commandos and army trucks pass by. You feel like its a movie, but what you are seeing is reality. Can You Sleep? You see 'fresh blood stains' on TV, And you are thinking, "It could have been me" You see babies being rescued, You see eye-witnesses breaking down, and then you see politicians do nothing but frown. Can You Sleep? While you are listening to the sound of an innocent cry, "many more will die", are the healing words of a terrorist. I ask you, Can You Sleep? While you hear of the coming hurricane in the next year or two, you hear a new born baby coo, and you are wondering why he was ever born, will he ever see the brightest morn? Can You Sleep? While people are killed, with joy, some hearts are filled. The Earth cracks, The Earth is famished, The Earth is parched, Bombs explode, animosity grows, The blame flies around, Bodies fall to the ground, Can You Sleep? In the midst of this reality, you see politicians asking for votes, trying to win you with their flowery quotes. I do not ask you if you can sleep, I now ask you: SHOULD YOU SLEEP? Niharika Vazirani, 17 Mumbai http://nehash.blogspot.com From nehal7 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:49:17 2008 From: nehal7 at yahoo.com (Nehal Gandhi) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:19:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Should we sleep? Message-ID: <805830.37446.qm@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My family friend's 17-year old daughter pens down an ode and raises a question that requires a justified answer. Are we prepared to give an answer to the coming generation who looks up to us for direction, advise and leadership or are we also termed as the 'spineless' creatures just like our predecessors? Can You Sleep? You hear gunshots in places you had dinner last week, >From a window, you seek blood leak. You hear live gunshots, explosions and screams. Outside your window, you see commandos and army trucks pass by. You feel like its a movie, but what you are seeing is reality. Can You Sleep? You see 'fresh blood stains' on TV, And you are thinking, "It could have been me" You see babies being rescued, You see eye-witnesses breaking down, and then you see politicians do nothing but frown. Can You Sleep? While you are listening to the sound of an innocent cry, "many more will die", are the healing words of a terrorist. I ask you, Can You Sleep? While you hear of the coming hurricane in the next year or two, you hear a new born baby coo, and you are wondering why he was ever born, will he ever see the brightest morn? Can You Sleep? While people are killed, with joy, some hearts are filled. The Earth cracks, The Earth is famished, The Earth is parched, Bombs explode, animosity grows, The blame flies around, Bodies fall to the ground, Can You Sleep? In the midst of this reality, you see politicians asking for votes, trying to win you with their flowery quotes. I do not ask you if you can sleep, I now ask you: SHOULD YOU SLEEP? Niharika Vazirani, 17 Mumbai http://nehash.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 21:42:55 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:12:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <176892.87446.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   Here is a thought for everyone   A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day.    Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even suggest a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been timed to (to quote):   """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa regime,  a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? """""""   These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking place amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of Pakistan dismisses any such notion.   Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities of attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the seminars and the (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to fool themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others into beleiving so.   Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of the Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in their country.   It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate agenda" runs in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis.   Kshmendra   --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: "taraprakash" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a positive development (even though it's miniscule)? Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be greeted by the same language? On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash wrote: > There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several > times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP > government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom > against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends > with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > >> All this is fine. >> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge to >> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and other >> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >> reconciliation can be started. >> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it refute >> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri terrorists >> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil and >> did >> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else achieved >> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit was >> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >> shrine of Sharda.) >> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >> Sharda >> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side and >> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >> >> Rashneek >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >> wrote: >> >>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>> 2008. >>> >>> >>> Mumbai bloodbath >>> >>> >>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>> them. >>> >>> >>> >>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>> >>> >>> >>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>> terror. >>> >>> >>> >>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>> only when they are translated into action and >>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>> already happened. >>> >>> >>> >>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>> immediately take the following steps: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>> other; >>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>> shades in both countries; >>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>> between the two countries; >>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>> is in the pipeline. >>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>> peoples of both countries; >>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>> Use of atomic weapons; >>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>> nuclear-free; >>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>> to militarisation. >>> >>> >>> >>> Signatories: >>> >>> >>> Pakistan >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>> Pakistan >>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>> University , Karachi >>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>> Coalition, Islamabad >>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>> Karachi >>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>> Studies, Lahore >>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>> Hyderabad >>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>> Multan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> India >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>> of Mumbai >>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rashneek Kher >> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 22:55:44 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:25:44 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <176892.87446.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <176892.87446.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kshmendra It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak for the majority. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > Here is a thought for everyone > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even suggest > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been timed > to (to quote): > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > """"""" > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking place > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of Pakistan > dismisses any such notion. > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities of > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the seminars and the > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to fool > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others into > beleiving so. > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of the > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in > their country. > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate agenda" runs > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > greeted by the same language? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > wrote: >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai >> >> >>> All this is fine. >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge > to >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > other >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >>> reconciliation can be started. >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > refute >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > terrorists >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil > and >>> did >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > achieved >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit > was >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >>> shrine of Sharda.) >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >>> Sharda >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side > and >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >>> >>> Rashneek >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>>> 2008. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mumbai bloodbath >>>> >>>> >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>>> them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>>> terror. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>>> only when they are translated into action and >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>>> already happened. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> immediately take the following steps: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>>> other; >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>>> shades in both countries; >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>>> between the two countries; >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>>> is in the pipeline. >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>>> peoples of both countries; >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>>> Use of atomic weapons; >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>>> nuclear-free; >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>>> to militarisation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Signatories: >>>> >>>> >>>> Pakistan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>>> Pakistan >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>>> University , Karachi >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>>> Coalition, Islamabad >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>>> Karachi >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>>> Studies, Lahore >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>>> Hyderabad >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>>> Multan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> India >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>>> of Mumbai >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rashneek Kher >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 07:55:25 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:25:25 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' Message-ID: Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world has overlooked the nation's problems. By Asra Q. Nomani December 1, 2008 The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of India's prison population. Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in place. Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as inspiration. What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in the country. India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the national security of not just India but the United States. Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam." Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 09:00:22 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:30:22 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' References: Message-ID: <82BB5A43DE284A04BAD76F748DADB2CE@tara> Oh yes this is the season for the sale of such publicity seeking articles. And those settled in the US are going to get so much more publicity for writing what looks different. Isn't this author suggesting that this gruesome incidents can be avoided if the Muslims in India are educated, brought out of Madrasas to "mainstream" schools, given employment? Such comments will actually hurt the Muslims in India more than it will do any good anywhere. Majority of Muslims know that this incident has nothing to do with how Muslmis are treated/mistreated in India. The Hindu fundmentalists will use such articles to spread more hatred against Muslims. it is fashionable to abuse ones own country in the US. Recently a Sikh woman contesting for the Senate for Republican party said, "I belong to India. I was a minority and you know minorities cannot go out of their houses without being given an ugly look" And this woman had seen nothing of 1984. She had left India in late 60's. Sacchar committee's report deserves serious attention and affirmative action. But is fair to talk about it in the light of this gruesome attack? My answer, even that of the majority Muslims, is no. They might actually tell her, hey miss. It may be fun in the US; and you may not like in India anymore but to us it isn't that bad. Even if it is, we have our own voices. If you really want to improve the lot of Muslims throughout the world, try to influence the country which is yours now. Muslims are much more comfortable in India than they are in the US. They are happier with India much more than they are with the US. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world > has overlooked the nation's problems. > > By Asra Q. Nomani > December 1, 2008 > > The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet > morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & > Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of > violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines > recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my > ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste > traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. > > "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in > the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care > of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is > the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. > > Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd > captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more > than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. > But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly > turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my > relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from > anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. > > India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example > of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. > My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My > parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father > pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's > successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show > it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. > > But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of > Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was > deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and > businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had > deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless > and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, > when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with > bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. > > Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years > ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing > for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly > resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of > Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a > depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims > live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." > > According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former > Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than > the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. > > Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. > > Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. > > Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. > > While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of > India's prison population. > > Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. > > The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to > remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action > programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in > place. > > Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would > be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was > hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out > in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join > militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as > inspiration. > > What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over > India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary > William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the > U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic > and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the > socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said > that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of > Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of > stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in > the country. > > India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim > population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million > Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or > the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 > million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, > social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we > would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the > national security of not just India but the United States. > > Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for > danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my > mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A > Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal > reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the > location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of > Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They > found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. > > Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's > Struggle for the Soul of Islam." > > > Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: > http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 09:50:22 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:20:22 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: <82BB5A43DE284A04BAD76F748DADB2CE@tara> References: <82BB5A43DE284A04BAD76F748DADB2CE@tara> Message-ID: Taraprakash It's a fair point that perhaps these gruesome attacks are not the best context to talk about Sacchar Commission. By the way I have been long advocating a Saccar style report on condition of Bangladeshi Hindus, I suspect we will see similar results (although the absolute number of Hindu population is lower). But, one question: Is it fair to debunk Asra by pinching her about living in the US. Also, is it fair to say, she should only focus on US issues? People have multiple homes, and multiple locales of caring. If tomorrow you got a scholarship to Australia, would you stop caring about India? On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Oh yes this is the season for the sale of such publicity seeking articles. > And those settled in the US are going to get so much more publicity for > writing what looks different. Isn't this author suggesting that this > gruesome incidents can be avoided if the Muslims in India are educated, > brought out of Madrasas to "mainstream" schools, given employment? > Such comments will actually hurt the Muslims in India more than it will do > any good anywhere. Majority of Muslims know that this incident has nothing > to do with how Muslmis are treated/mistreated in India. The Hindu > fundmentalists will use such articles to spread more hatred against Muslims. > it is fashionable to abuse ones own country in the US. Recently a Sikh woman > contesting for the Senate for Republican party said, "I belong to India. I > was a minority and you know minorities cannot go out of their houses without > being given an ugly look" And this woman had seen nothing of 1984. She had > left India in late 60's. > > Sacchar committee's report deserves serious attention and affirmative > action. But is fair to talk about it in the light of this gruesome attack? > My answer, even that of the majority Muslims, is no. They might actually > tell her, hey miss. It may be fun in the US; and you may not like in India > anymore but to us it isn't that bad. Even if it is, we have our own voices. > If you really want to improve the lot of Muslims throughout the world, try > to influence the country which is yours now. Muslims are much more > comfortable in India than they are in the US. They are happier with India > much more than they are with the US. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > To: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:25 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > > >> Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' >> The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world >> has overlooked the nation's problems. >> >> By Asra Q. Nomani >> December 1, 2008 >> >> The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet >> morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & >> Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of >> violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines >> recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my >> ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste >> traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. >> >> "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in >> the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care >> of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is >> the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. >> >> Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd >> captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more >> than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. >> But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly >> turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my >> relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from >> anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. >> >> India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example >> of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. >> My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My >> parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father >> pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's >> successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show >> it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. >> >> But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of >> Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was >> deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and >> businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had >> deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless >> and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, >> when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with >> bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. >> >> Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years >> ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing >> for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly >> resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of >> Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a >> depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims >> live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." >> >> According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former >> Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than >> the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. >> >> Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. >> >> Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. >> >> Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. >> >> While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of >> India's prison population. >> >> Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. >> >> The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to >> remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action >> programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in >> place. >> >> Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would >> be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was >> hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out >> in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join >> militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as >> inspiration. >> >> What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over >> India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary >> William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the >> U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic >> and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the >> socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said >> that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of >> Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of >> stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in >> the country. >> >> India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim >> population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million >> Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or >> the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 >> million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, >> social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we >> would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the >> national security of not just India but the United States. >> >> Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for >> danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my >> mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A >> Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal >> reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the >> location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of >> Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They >> found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. >> >> Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's >> Struggle for the Soul of Islam." >> >> >> Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Dec 2 11:35:36 2008 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:35:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=60Western_Secularisation_and_Glob?= =?windows-1252?q?alisation=92=3B_Lecture_by_Jose_Casanova=3B_CSDS?= =?windows-1252?q?=2C_Dec_22=2C_1700?= Message-ID: *Monday, 22nd December, 2008* Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) cordially invites you to the *13th B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture** * *`Western Secularisation and Globalisation'* By *Professor* *Jose Casanova*** at *5 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* *José Casanova* is one of the world's top scholars in the sociology of religion. Professor at the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Georgetown University, he also heads the Berkley Center's Program on Globalisation, Religion and the Secular. He has published works in a broad range of subjects, including religion and globalisation, migration and religious pluralism, transnational religions, and sociological theory. His best-known work, *Public Religions in the Modern World* (University of Chicago Press, 1994), has become a modern classic in the field. Professor Casanova has taught at the New School for Social Research from 1987 to 2007, where he occupied numerous distinguished positions including Chair of the Sociology Department and of the Committee on Historical Studies. In addition to his primary appointments, he has held visiting academic positions at New York University, at the Harriman Institute of Columbia University, at the Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen in Vienna, at the Bellagio Center of the Rockefeller Foundation, at the Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin and at the Central European University in Budapest. His most recent research has focused primarily on two areas: globalisation and religion, and the dynamics of transnational religion, migration, and increasing ethno-religious and cultural diversity. In studying religion and globalisation, his research has adopted an ambitious comparative perspective that includes Catholicism, Pentecostalism and Islam within its scope. His work on transnational migration and religion explores the incorporation of minorities and the construction of transnational networks, identities and structures. *B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lectures* are instituted in memory of the distinguished economist-intellectual Professor B.N. Ganguli, former Chair, CSDS Board of Governors. Earlier speakers in the series include Professors Charles Taylor, Rodolfo Stavenhagen, Raimundo Panikkar, Bhikhu Parekh, Ernest Gellner, Ali Mazrui, Roberto Unger, Michael Walzer, John Keane, Amit Bhaduri, Giorgio Agamben and Bina Agarwal. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 13:46:25 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:16:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <799262.8158.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   1. If the position of Muslims in India is as terrible as it is made out to be, why is it that Muslims from Bangladesh in substantially large numbers have made India their home by illegal ingress and continue to do so?   2. There are quite a few Indian Muslims in the Gulf. Many of them are as rich as any Indian from any other faith. If they wanted to, these rich Indian Muslims could shed all their interests in India and emigrate not just with family but whole clans to countries where "residence through investment" can be secured. They do not. I personally do not know of even one such example. Why do they not if the position of Muslims in India is as terrible as is being suggested?   3. When Muslims in India make it to the 'directly elected by people' legislatures and do so not solely on the basis of the 'Muslim Vote', it suggests that things cannot be too terrible for Indian Muslims.   Are Muslims as a minority disadvantaged in India? Of course they are but that is not something peculiar happening with Indian Muslims only. That is true of a minority in any part of the world especially when the 'available cake' is not large enough.   It is true of Non-Muslim 'minorities' (on the basis of caste or faith) in many parts of India itself.   The exclusions to this are where a 'minority' grouping has created it's own strong institutional framework to 'look after their own'. Cases in example are the Parsis, Bohris, Aga Khanis.   Minorities in any part of the world in most countries find themselves best catered to through "Self-Employment of Professionals", "Individual Enterprise", "Individual Entrepreneurship". They find themselves exceling where full dividends being realised from the skills of the individual are not slave to governmental or even corporate structures.   In India this is certainly true in the fields Fine Arts, Performing Arts and Sports apart from Doctors and Lawyers and Accountants etc. But it is also true for India that many Muslims have reached many high positions in government and corporate structures.   These "Oh! my poor suffering Muslim brothers and sisters" articulations from "abroad" such as Asra Nomani's only do harm to Muslims and seek to create divides. They seek to stoke trouble.  We have seen that happening  with the Sikhs and now also with the Hindus. They are enemies of India.    Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:50 AM Taraprakash It's a fair point that perhaps these gruesome attacks are not the best context to talk about Sacchar Commission. By the way I have been long advocating a Saccar style report on condition of Bangladeshi Hindus, I suspect we will see similar results (although the absolute number of Hindu population is lower). But, one question: Is it fair to debunk Asra by pinching her about living in the US. Also, is it fair to say, she should only focus on US issues? People have multiple homes, and multiple locales of caring. If tomorrow you got a scholarship to Australia, would you stop caring about India? On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Oh yes this is the season for the sale of such publicity seeking articles. > And those settled in the US are going to get so much more publicity for > writing what looks different. Isn't this author suggesting that this > gruesome incidents can be avoided if the Muslims in India are educated, > brought out of Madrasas to "mainstream" schools, given employment? > Such comments will actually hurt the Muslims in India more than it will do > any good anywhere. Majority of Muslims know that this incident has nothing > to do with how Muslmis are treated/mistreated in India. The Hindu > fundmentalists will use such articles to spread more hatred against Muslims. > it is fashionable to abuse ones own country in the US. Recently a Sikh woman > contesting for the Senate for Republican party said, "I belong to India. I > was a minority and you know minorities cannot go out of their houses without > being given an ugly look" And this woman had seen nothing of 1984. She had > left India in late 60's. > > Sacchar committee's report deserves serious attention and affirmative > action. But is fair to talk about it in the light of this gruesome attack? > My answer, even that of the majority Muslims, is no. They might actually > tell her, hey miss. It may be fun in the US; and you may not like in India > anymore but to us it isn't that bad. Even if it is, we have our own voices. > If you really want to improve the lot of Muslims throughout the world, try > to influence the country which is yours now. Muslims are much more > comfortable in India than they are in the US. They are happier with India > much more than they are with the US. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > To: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:25 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > > >> Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' >> The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world >> has overlooked the nation's problems. >> >> By Asra Q. Nomani >> December 1, 2008 >> >> The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet >> morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & >> Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of >> violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines >> recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my >> ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste >> traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. >> >> "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in >> the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care >> of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is >> the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. >> >> Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd >> captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more >> than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. >> But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly >> turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my >> relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from >> anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. >> >> India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example >> of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. >> My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My >> parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father >> pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's >> successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show >> it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. >> >> But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of >> Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was >> deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and >> businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had >> deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless >> and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, >> when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with >> bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. >> >> Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years >> ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing >> for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly >> resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of >> Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a >> depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims >> live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." >> >> According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former >> Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than >> the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. >> >> Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. >> >> Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. >> >> Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. >> >> While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of >> India's prison population. >> >> Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. >> >> The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to >> remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action >> programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in >> place. >> >> Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would >> be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was >> hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out >> in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join >> militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as >> inspiration. >> >> What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over >> India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary >> William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the >> U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic >> and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the >> socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said >> that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of >> Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of >> stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in >> the country. >> >> India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim >> population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million >> Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or >> the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 >> million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, >> social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we >> would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the >> national security of not just India but the United States. >> >> Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for >> danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my >> mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A >> Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal >> reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the >> location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of >> Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They >> found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. >> >> Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's >> Struggle for the Soul of Islam." >> >> >> Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: >> >> http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 14:01:04 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:01:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=93Are_we_on_the_brink_of_a_=91gre?= =?windows-1252?q?at_dying=92_in_the_financial_world=2C=94?= Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/books/02kaku.html?ref=books Niall Ferguson's “The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World,” went to press in May 2008, but it shrewdly anticipates many aspects of the current financial crisis, which has toppled banks, precipitated gigantic government bailouts and upended global markets. “Are we on the brink of a ‘great dying’ in the financial world,” Mr. Ferguson asks, “one of those mass extinctions of species that have occurred periodically, like the end-Cambrian extinction that killed off 90 percent of Earth’s species, or the Cretaceous-Tertiary catastrophe that wiped out the dinosaurs? It is a scenario that many biologists have reason to fear, as man-made climate changewreaks havoc with natural habitats around the globe. But a great dying of financial institutions is also a scenario that we should worry about, as another man-made disaster works its way slowly and painfully through the global financial system.” In the course of this useful if somewhat lumpy volume, Mr. Ferguson looks at the roots of the current economic meltdown, examining how, in a globalized world that uses increasingly complex financial instruments, defaults on subprime mortgages in American cities like Detroit and Memphis could unleash a fiscal tsunami that spans the planet. But the book does not focus primarily on speculative manias and financial crises; for that, the reader is better off with two old- school classics, “Manias, Panics and Crashes” by Charles P. Kindleberger and Robert Aliber, and “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” by Charles Mackay. Instead Mr. Ferguson discusses such cycles of euphoria and panic within a larger historical context: he traces the evolution of credit, debt and the idea of risk management over several centuries, and as he did in an earlier book, “The Cash Nexus,” he examines the potent links between politics and economics. Mr. Ferguson explains why money went from coinage to paper and the advantages and disadvantages of the gold standard. He argues that aging societies (like those facing a large baby-boom generation entering retirement years) have “a huge and growing need for fixed income securities, and for low inflation to ensure that the interest they pay retains its purchasing power.” And he looks at how exotic financial innovations (like collateralized debt obligations) and wide support for adjustable rate and subprime mortgages (endorsed, he says, by proponents of wider home ownership as disparate as Alan Greenspan and President Bush) pushed the snowball of the current financial crisis. Whereas Mr. Ferguson’s recent books “Empire” (2003) and “Colossus” (2004) were highly polemical histories promoting the virtues of British and American empire, this volume is considerably less ideological and less tendentious. No doubt Mr. Ferguson, who earlier called for the United States to export democracy and capitalism, has been chastened by the continuing war in Iraq and by the growing economic difficulties of the United States. Noting the high savings rate of Chinese households and Chinese corporations (in sharp contrast to Americans’ penchant for living on credit), he observes that the direction of capital flow is now from East to West. “In 2007 the United States needed to borrow around $800 billion from the rest of the world; more than $4 billion every working day,” he writes. “China, by contrast, ran a current account surplus of $262 billion, equivalent to more than a quarter of the U.S. deficit. And a remarkably large proportion of that surplus has ended up being lent to the United States. In effect, the People’s Republic China has become banker to the United States of America.” Although “The Ascent of Money” is pockmarked by digressions (about things like the Black-Scholes model of options pricing) that many lay readers will find arcane and difficult to understand, the book as a whole is animated by Mr. Ferguson’s narrative gifts, among them his ability to discuss complex ideas in user-friendly terms. He also has a knack for illustrating his larger hypotheses with colorful stories about people like Nathan Rothschild (the subject of one of his earlier books); the Scottish economist and gambler John Law (described as “the man who invented the stock market bubble”); and the Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman and his so-called Chicago Boys, who helped bring economic reforms to Pinochet’s Chile. It is Mr. Ferguson’s belief that “behind each great historical phenomenon there lies a financial secret,” and much of this volume aims to explicate that argument. He writes, for instance, that the Confederacy’s lack of hard cash, as much as its lack of industrial capacity or manpower, undercut its cause. And he suggests that the Renaissance boom in art and architecture can be traced to Italian bankers’ application of Eastern and Arabic mathematics to finance. “The Dutch Republic prevailed over the Habsburg Empire,” he argues, “because having the world’s first modern stock market was financially preferable to having the world’s biggest silver mine. The problems of the French monarchy could not be resolved without a revolution because a convicted Scots murderer had wrecked the French financial system by unleashing the first stock market bubble and bust. It was Nathan Rothschild as much as the Duke of Wellington who defeated Napoleon at Waterloo. It was financial folly, a self-destructive cycle of defaults and devaluations, that turned Argentina from the world’s sixth-richest country in the 1880s into the inflation-ridden basket case of the 1980s.” Mr. Ferguson is fond of making Darwinian comparisons in the book, writing that “financial history is essentially the result of institutional mutation and natural selection,” and noting that “as in the natural world, the evolutionary process has been subject to big disruptions in the form of geopolitical shocks and financial crises.” Also contributing to “the inherent instability of the financial system,” he says, are the vagaries of human behavior: “our innate inclination to veer from euphoria to despondency” and “our perennial failure to learn from history.” “Those who put their faith in the ‘wisdom of crowds’ mean no more than that a large group of people is more likely to make a correct assessment than a small group of supposed experts,” he writes. “But that is not saying much. The old joke that ‘Macroeconomists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions’ is not so much a joke as a dispiriting truth about the difficulty of economic forecasting. Meanwhile, serious students of human psychology will expect as much madness as wisdom from large groups of people. A case in point must be the near-universal delusion among investors in the first half of 2007 that a major liquidity crisis could not occur.” From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:21:32 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:51:32 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: <799262.8158.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <799262.8158.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > 1. If the position of Muslims in India is as terrible as it is made out to > be, why is it that Muslims from Bangladesh in substantially large numbers > have made India their home by illegal ingress and continue to do so? 1. I have never used the words "terrible" about Indian Muslims in any of my posts. Most of the time I reserve that adjective and energy for the condition of minorities in Bangladesh, which is more directly my field of work. If a news item forwarded by me carries the words "terrible" about Indian Muslims, that does not mean those are my descriptors. I may agree with some parts of an analysis, and not others, but will of course forward the whole article to let people read and judge. 2. While I do not use the word "terrible", I would certainly say Muslims are in an economically disadvantaged situation in India. I also believe Hindus are in an economically disadvantaged situation in Bangladesh. That is Partition's lasting legacy on both sides of borders. Comparisons between countries are not terribly interesting, but certainly I feel positions of Hindus in Bangladesh is very weak, and it is one of the issues I work on. 3. The reason Bangladeshis migrate to India is because even the economically disadvantaged situation in India is preferable to their economic situation in Bangladesh. But we must also be aware that not every person identified as "Bangladeshi" by rightist politicians is Bangladeshi. This term is also used to skapegoat Bengali Muslims broadly as an election strategy. > 2. There are quite a few Indian Muslims in the Gulf. Many of them are as > rich as any Indian from any other faith. If they wanted to, these rich > Indian Muslims could shed all their interests in India and emigrate not just > with family but whole clans to countries where "residence through > investment" can be secured. They do not. I personally do not know of even > one such example. Why do they not if the position of Muslims in India is as > terrible as is being suggested? I don't know, this is an interesting question. > 3. When Muslims in India make it to the 'directly elected by people' > legislatures and do so not solely on the basis of the 'Muslim Vote', it > suggests that things cannot be too terrible for Indian Muslims. I agree that Muslims in India getting elected to Indian legislature is a good thing when it happens. In absolute numbers, I am sure Muslim political representation inside India is better than Hindu political representation in Bangladesh. But should Indians be satisfied with that comparison and consider the issue resolved. > Are Muslims as a minority disadvantaged in India? Of course they are but > that is not something peculiar happening with Indian Muslims only. That is > true of a minority in any part of the world especially when the 'available > cake' is not large enough. Agreed. > It is true of Non-Muslim 'minorities' (on the basis of caste or faith) in > many parts of India itself. Agreed as well. > The exclusions to this are where a 'minority' grouping has created it's own > strong institutional framework to 'look after their own'. Cases in example > are the Parsis, Bohris, Aga Khanis. > > Minorities in any part of the world in most countries find themselves best > catered to through "Self-Employment of Professionals", "Individual > Enterprise", "Individual Entrepreneurship". They find themselves exceling > where full dividends being realised from the skills of the individual are > not slave to governmental or even corporate structures. > > In India this is certainly true in the fields Fine Arts, Performing Arts and > Sports apart from Doctors and Lawyers and Accountants etc. But it is also > true for India that many Muslims have reached many high positions in > government and corporate structures. > > These "Oh! my poor suffering Muslim brothers and sisters" articulations from > "abroad" such as Asra Nomani's only do harm to Muslims and seek to create > divides. They seek to stoke trouble. We have seen that happening with the > Sikhs and now also with the Hindus. They are enemies of India. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:28:08 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:28:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sonia=92s_presence_in_Delhi_is_cos?= =?windows-1252?q?ting_India_dearly?= Message-ID: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> Sonia's presence in Delhi is costing India dearly François Gautier - Indian Express First Published : 02 Dec 2008 02:37:00 AM IST Link - http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Sonia%E2%80%99s+presence+in+Delhi+is+costing+India+dearly&artid=LNnjswClsuc=&SectionID=vBlkz7JCFvA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=&SEO=Emile,+Zola,+Manmohan,+Singh,Sonia,+Gandhi,+Saudi , 1898, the French writer Emile Zola wrote an open letter to the then French president in the newspaper L'Aurore, titled j'accuse ('I accuse'), where he accused the French government of anti- Semitism towards Captain Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish officer unfairly condemned for treason. Now it is time for the people of India to say openly that which many, including within the Congress, think secretly and may utter in the privacy of their chambers. It is not about Manmohan Singh, it is not even about Shivraj Patil, the fall guy; it is about that one person, the Eminence Grise of India. She who pulls all the strings, She whose shadow looms menacingly over so many, She who holds no portfolio, is just a simple elected MP, like 540 others, but rules like an empress. Sometimes, one's very physical presence at the top is enough to move things, to influence the course of events. One word from Her, a glance, a frown, are enough to put the whole heavy, inert, unwilling machinery of India's bureaucracy and political system in full motion. Sometimes She need not say anything: in the true tradition of Bhakti, Her ministers, Her secretaries, interpret Her silences and rush to cater to Her western and Christian identity. Nevertheless, she has said and acted enough so that one day she may stand accused on the pages of History for what she must have done to India. I'accuse Sonia Gandhi as being responsible for the tragedy of Mumbai, having emasculated India's intelligence agencies by stopping them from investigating terror attacks in the last four years, including the Mumbai train blasts. She has also neutralised the ATS by ordering them at all costs to ferret out 'Hindu terrorism', which if it exists, has wrought minuscule damage compared to what Islamic terror has done since 2004. Did the US send a warning to India that there may be an attack on Mumbai and that the Taj would be one of the targets? Were these ignored because the ATS was too busy chasing Hindu 'terrorists' on Sonia's orders? I accuse Sonia and her government of having made the NSG the laughing stock of the world. How many times did the NSG (who took ten hours to reach Mumbai) claim that it had "sanitised the Taj and that the operation was over" and how many times did a bomb go off immediately after? For the last 20 years, the NSG has guarded VIPs and has become soft. See the comments of Israeli terror specialists, who said the NSG should have first sanitised the immediate surroundings of the places of conflict, kept the bystanders and press (who gave terrorists watching TV in the Taj rooms a perfect report of the security forces' whereabouts) out of the place, gathered enough information about the position of the terrorists and hostages before taking action, instead of immediately engaging the terrorists, and ensuring the deaths of so many hostages. I accuse Sonia of having let her Christian and Western background, in four years, divide India on religious and caste lines in a cynical and methodical manner. I accuse Sonia of weakening India's spirit of sacrifice and courage, so that 20 terrorists (or less) held at ransom the financial capital of India for more than three days. I accuse Sonia Gandhi of always pointing the finger at Pakistan, when terrorism in India is now mostly homegrown, even if it takes help, training, refuge and arms from Pakistan; of not warning Indians of the grave dangers of Islamic terror for cynical election purposes. I accuse Sonia of being an enemy of the Hindus, who always gave refuge to persecuted minorities, and who are the only people in the world to accept that God may manifest under different names, in different epochs, using different scriptures. I accuse Sonia Gandhi of taking advantage of India's respect for women, its undue fascination with the Gandhi name, and its stupid mania for White Skin. I'accuse Sonia of exploiting the Indian Press' obsession with her. She hardly ever gave interview in 20 years, except scripted ones to NDTV, yet the Press always protects her, never blames her and keeps silent over her covert role. I'accuse Sonia and her government of trying to make heroes of subservient and inefficient men to hide the humiliation of Mumbai 26/11. Before going to his death, Hemant Karkare, the ATS chief, was shown on television clumsily handling his helmet, as someone who uses it very rarely. Why did he die of bullet wounds in the chest when he was wearing a bullet-proof vest? Either Indian vests are inferior quality or he was not wearing one. How did the terrorists who killed him and his fellow officer escape in the same vehicle used by the ATS chief ? Why did he and his officers go into Cama Hospital without ascertaining where the terrorists were? We honour his death, but these facts say a lot about the ATS' battle-readiness. Will someone in the Congress, someone who feels more Indian than faithful to Sonia, stand up and speak the truth? Who said, "Go after Hindu terrorists"? Who insisted on putting pressure on BJP governments in Karnataka or Orissa for so-called persecution of Christians, when Christians have always practised their faith in total freedom here, while their missionaries are converting hundreds of thousands of innocent tribals and Dalits with the billions of dollars given by gullible westerners? Who said, "Go soft on Islamic terrorism"? Who wants to do away with India's nuclear deterrence in the face of Pakistani and Chinese nuclear threats, by pushing at all costs the one sided Indo-US nuclear deal, which makes no secret of its intention to denuclearise India militarily? I am sure Sonia Gandhi has good qualities: she probably was a good wife to Rajiv, a good daughter in law to Indira and by all accounts, she is a good mother to her children. One also hears first-hand reports about her concern for smaller people, her dignity in the suffering that befell her when her husband was blown to pieces, and her courtesy with visitors. Nevertheless, she is a danger to India. Her very presence, both physical and occult, open the doors to forces inimical to India. Even Indian Christians should understand that she is not a gift to them: her presence at the top has emboldened fanatics like John Dayal or Valson Thampu, who practise an orthodox Christianity prevalent in the West in the early 20th century, but no longer, to radicalise their flock. Indian Christians should recognise that they have a much better deal here than Christians or Hindus have in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia or Saudi Arabia. Under Sonia's rule, Indian Muslims, too, have been used as electoral pawns. They have been encouraged to shun the Sufi streak, a blend of the best of Islam and Vedanta, for a hard-line Sunni brand imported from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan. For the good of India, her civilisation, her immense spirituality and culture, Sonia Gandhi has to go and a government that thinks Indian, breathes nationalism and will protect its citizens must be voted to power. *— fgautier at auroville.org.in* From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:40:01 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:40:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Time to put Pak on notice: US security expert Message-ID: <6353c690812020110s3ff93af7l5200e3847b1dbdd4@mail.gmail.com> Time to put Pak on notice: US security expert *Shloka Nath* / * Forbes-Network18* Link - http://ibnlive.in.com/news/time-to-put-pak-on-notice-us-security-expert/79492-2.html Uncomfortable questions are being asked about how India's intelligence failed to detect the plan for Mumbai attacks. US security expert Alex Alexiev blames it on India's poor grasp of terror dynamics and lack of coordination between various agencies. Alexiev is the vice president for research at Center for Security Policy, Washington DC and has directed several research projects for the US Defense Department. His present research focuses on issues related to Islamic extremism and terrorism. In a telephone interview to Network18 from his home in California, he tells Shloka Nath that the time has come to put Pakistan on notice. What do you think is the reason behind the Mumbai attacks? What happened in Mumbai didn't come as a surprise. Actually, the reason the attacks took place was because India had not bothered to understand the basics of what was happening. There is a deeper malignancy at work here and we are at war with a radical totalitarian interpretation of Islam. With every passing year since the 9/11 incident, the world situation has only got worse – not better. India is a good example of the deteriorating effects of terrorism. India is not willing to accept that there are harmful sects within its own borders which are supported by Pakistan. The last time I was in India, I was shocked to hear Government officials at a conference on security in India. They stood up and said there has never been an Indian Muslim who was a terrorist. Most might be peaceful but a lot are not. There is certainly radicalization in India and it's a problem that needs to be addressed. What lessons can India learn from the way America stepped up its security after 9/11? We have done better than India in stopping attacks. But, in India, there is very little active coordination and sharing of information between different organizations. India today is what the USA was before 9/11 when the FBI and CIA did not even talk to each other. The lack of coordination has to be looked into. The other thing is poor equipment. The police sent to confront the terrorists had ordinary handguns while the terrorists were better armed. You need to spend whatever money necessary to give your police the right tools so they can deal with all kinds of situations effectively. A well-known police chief of New York City -- William Bratton – says all terrorism is local because ultimately, when it happens, it's local. It's on your shores. The police are the first line of deterrence rather than the last. But the police in India are almost like a marginal factor in counter terrorism. It's the police who know the locals and the neighborhoods and there has to be some level of effective local intelligence. One of the positive steps we have taken in the US has been to set up terrorism intelligence centers where various agencies of government and local police work side by side. For example, in Los Angeles, you have the FBI, CIA, LA police and various other agencies like the fire department and the airport police all working together. They are intelligence fusion centers, if you will, and are functioning in several other large cities. These professionals sit in the same office, the same department and they become colleagues as opposed to different competing departments. In India, they need to cooperate closely and make sure that no lead goes cold. Think of the economic damage done by shutting down Mumbai for a day or two -- the billions of dollars lost. The cost of effective policing is actually a very good economic investment. You need to train your police force the best way you can. India's Prime Minister is thinking of a crime-fighting agency along the lines of America's Homeland Security model. What are the benefits and disadvantages in implementing such a framework? The USA's Department of Homeland Security consolidates 22 agencies and 18,000 employees. It unifies the fragmented federal functions into a single agency dedicated to protecting America from terrorism. But the issue about a Homeland Security (HS) system is that it cuts both ways. Due to a complete lack of cooperation between intelligence agencies it is good to have one place where they can exchange views. Under the HS, there is a Joint Terrorism Task Force, a place at the Federal level where representatives of CIA, FBI and all others sit together and work like the city-level fusion centers I just mentioned. That is very good. However, on the other hand, bringing all the existing agencies under a single roof could, in a way, mean adding another layer of bureaucracy. I'm in two minds -- because when the HS was formed it was supposed to be an organization where everything was coordinated. It was meant to rally together the separate agencies in the US -- and there were many: The Armed Forces -- the Army, Marine, Navy, the Defense Intelligence Agency, a military organisation, and the NSA military spying agency, the CIA and the FBI. We had so many receptacles for information but no cooperation among ourselves. Right now, fingers are pointing towards Pakistan. Is this simply a knee-jerk, emotional reaction one can expect from India at this time? I have spent an extensive amount of time in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. And the one thing I have learnt is that all terrorism is, to some extent, state-sponsored. Let's be frank. Nearly all terrorist attempts in India can said to have been sponsored by Pakistan. Take Lashkar-e-Toiba, the child of the ISI that continues to be supported by them. You just can't separate terrorist attacks in India from Jihadi outfits in Pakistan. Many who were banned under the Musharraf regime have simply renamed themselves and continued to operate and be supported by the ISI. The current Pakistani government knows that the ISI is a state within the state. Look at the number of ISI chiefs who turn out to be zealous Islamists after they retire. The raison d'etre of the Pakistan military depends on India's image as an enemy. Because, without it, how do you justify spending 40% of the country's income on the military? And I'm not sure if America has recognized that Pakistan today is not a state with a military but a military with a state. Personally, I thought America's policy with Musharraf was misguided – Washington thinks Pakistan is a strategic ally. We don't understand that actually we may be losing Afghanistan because of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia's support for extremists. We know the ISI is behind the bombing of Indian embassy in Kabul. If they can attack the sovereign territory of a neighbor, why would it come as a surprise if they chose to attack India's business centre? For some reason there is this pervasive belief that if you don't speak of evil it will go away. The fact is, it won't. And the time has come to put Pakistan on notice. The other fascinating thing is the Dawood connection - another example of the state sponsoring terrorism. We know Dawood is protected and given refuge and allowed to operate his criminal empire by the ISI and now it looks like he could be one of the guys involved in this. So you have a possible organized crime and terror nexus – who made that possible? India's government needs to wake up to what's happening and what's coming down the pipe. There are terrorist incidents in India every one or two months, which are really disruptive. How long can you tolerate that? *Shloka Nath is a senior features writer at the new business magazine to be launched by Network18 in alliance with Forbes, USA.* From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:40:54 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:40:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Sonia_=B9_s_presence_in_Delhi_is_cos?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ting_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: the French writer Emile Zola wrote an open > letter to the then French president in the newspaper L'Aurore, titled j'accuse > ('I accuse'), where he accused the French government of anti- Semitism towards > Captain Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish officer unfairly condemned for treason. Now > it is time for the people of India to say openly that which many, including > within the Congress, think secretly and may utter in the privacy of their > chambers. Uh huh, no doubt the 'People of India' need the prodding of a French journalist notorious for his extremism and love of all things to the far right, to throw out the Italian-born wife of a former Indian prime minister. From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 14:49:41 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:49:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sonia=92s_presence_in_Delhi_is_cos?= =?windows-1252?q?ting_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3BA9A3DC-CDB3-47D6-AE6C-8989EDDAA9CA@sarai.net> who is this Francois? On 02-Dec-08, at 2:28 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Sonia's presence in Delhi is costing India dearly > François Gautier - Indian Express > > > First Published : 02 Dec 2008 02:37:00 AM IST > > > > Link - > http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Sonia%E2%80%99s+presence+in+Delhi+is+costing+India+dearly&artid=LNnjswClsuc=&SectionID=vBlkz7JCFvA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=&SEO=Emile,+Zola,+Manmohan,+Singh,Sonia,+Gandhi,+Saudi > , > > 1898, the French writer Emile Zola wrote an open letter to the then > French > president in the newspaper L'Aurore, titled j'accuse ('I accuse'), > where he > accused the French government of anti- Semitism towards Captain Alfred > Dreyfus, a Jewish officer unfairly condemned for treason. > > Now it is time for the people of India to say openly that which many, > including within the Congress, think secretly and may utter in the > privacy > of their chambers. > > It is not about Manmohan Singh, it is not even about Shivraj Patil, > the fall > guy; it is about that one person, the Eminence Grise of India. She > who pulls > all the strings, She whose shadow looms menacingly over so many, She > who > holds no portfolio, is just a simple elected MP, like 540 others, > but rules > like an empress. > > Sometimes, one's very physical presence at the top is enough to move > things, > to influence the course of events. One word from Her, a glance, a > frown, are > enough to put the whole heavy, inert, unwilling machinery of India's > bureaucracy and political system in full motion. Sometimes She need > not say > anything: in the true tradition of Bhakti, Her ministers, Her > secretaries, > interpret Her silences and rush to cater to Her western and Christian > identity. > > Nevertheless, she has said and acted enough so that one day she may > stand > accused on the pages of History for what she must have done to India. > > I'accuse Sonia Gandhi as being responsible for the tragedy of > Mumbai, having > emasculated India's intelligence agencies by stopping them from > investigating terror attacks in the last four years, including the > Mumbai > train blasts. She has also neutralised the ATS by ordering them at > all costs > to ferret out 'Hindu terrorism', which if it exists, has wrought > minuscule > damage compared to what Islamic terror has done since 2004. Did the > US send > a warning to India that there may be an attack on Mumbai and that > the Taj > would be one of the targets? Were these ignored because the ATS was > too busy > chasing Hindu 'terrorists' on Sonia's orders? I accuse Sonia and her > government of having made the NSG the laughing stock of the world. > How many > times did the NSG (who took ten hours to reach Mumbai) claim that it > had > "sanitised the Taj and that the operation was over" and how many > times did a > bomb go off immediately after? For the last 20 years, the NSG has > guarded > VIPs and has become soft. See the comments of Israeli terror > specialists, > who said the NSG should have first sanitised the immediate > surroundings of > the places of conflict, kept the bystanders and press (who gave > terrorists > watching TV in the Taj rooms a perfect report of the security forces' > whereabouts) out of the place, gathered enough information about the > position of the terrorists and hostages before taking action, > instead of > immediately engaging the terrorists, and ensuring the deaths of so > many > hostages. > > I accuse Sonia of having let her Christian and Western background, > in four > years, divide India on religious and caste lines in a cynical and > methodical > manner. > > I accuse Sonia of weakening India's spirit of sacrifice and courage, > so that > 20 terrorists (or less) held at ransom the financial capital of > India for > more than three days. > > I accuse Sonia Gandhi of always pointing the finger at Pakistan, when > terrorism in India is now mostly homegrown, even if it takes help, > training, > refuge and arms from Pakistan; of not warning Indians of the grave > dangers > of Islamic terror for cynical election purposes. > > I accuse Sonia of being an enemy of the Hindus, who always gave > refuge to > persecuted minorities, and who are the only people in the world to > accept > that God may manifest under different names, in different epochs, > using > different scriptures. > > I accuse Sonia Gandhi of taking advantage of India's respect for > women, its > undue fascination with the Gandhi name, and its stupid mania for > White Skin. > > I'accuse Sonia of exploiting the Indian Press' obsession with her. She > hardly ever gave interview in 20 years, except scripted ones to > NDTV, yet > the Press always protects her, never blames her and keeps silent > over her > covert role. > > I'accuse Sonia and her government of trying to make heroes of > subservient > and inefficient men to hide the humiliation of Mumbai 26/11. Before > going to > his death, Hemant Karkare, the ATS chief, was shown on television > clumsily > handling his helmet, as someone who uses it very rarely. Why did he > die of > bullet wounds in the chest when he was wearing a bullet-proof vest? > Either > Indian vests are inferior quality or he was not wearing one. > > How did the terrorists who killed him and his fellow officer escape > in the > same vehicle used by the ATS chief ? Why did he and his officers go > into > Cama Hospital without ascertaining where the terrorists were? We > honour his > death, but these facts say a lot about the ATS' battle-readiness. > > Will someone in the Congress, someone who feels more Indian than > faithful to > Sonia, stand up and speak the truth? Who said, "Go after Hindu > terrorists"? > Who insisted on putting pressure on BJP governments in Karnataka or > Orissa > for so-called persecution of Christians, when Christians have always > practised their faith in total freedom here, while their > missionaries are > converting hundreds of thousands of innocent tribals and Dalits with > the > billions of dollars given by gullible westerners? Who said, "Go soft > on > Islamic terrorism"? Who wants to do away with India's nuclear > deterrence in > the face of Pakistani and Chinese nuclear threats, by pushing at all > costs > the one sided Indo-US nuclear deal, which makes no secret of its > intention > to denuclearise India militarily? I am sure Sonia Gandhi has good > qualities: > she probably was a good wife to Rajiv, a good daughter in law to > Indira and > by all accounts, she is a good mother to her children. One also hears > first-hand reports about her concern for smaller people, her dignity > in the > suffering that befell her when her husband was blown to pieces, and > her > courtesy with visitors. > > Nevertheless, she is a danger to India. > > Her very presence, both physical and occult, open the doors to forces > inimical to India. Even Indian Christians should understand that she > is not > a gift to them: her presence at the top has emboldened fanatics like > John > Dayal or Valson Thampu, who practise an orthodox Christianity > prevalent in > the West in the early 20th century, but no longer, to radicalise their > flock. Indian Christians should recognise that they have a much > better deal > here than Christians or Hindus have in Pakistan, Bangladesh, > Indonesia or > Saudi Arabia. > > Under Sonia's rule, Indian Muslims, too, have been used as electoral > pawns. > They have been encouraged to shun the Sufi streak, a blend of the > best of > Islam and Vedanta, for a hard-line Sunni brand imported from Saudi > Arabia, > Pakistan and Afghanistan. > > For the good of India, her civilisation, her immense spirituality and > culture, Sonia Gandhi has to go and a government that thinks Indian, > breathes nationalism and will protect its citizens must be voted to > power. > > *— fgautier at auroville.org.in* > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 14:47:07 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:17:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan.   Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited):   " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis"   The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged.   I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.    The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial (violent) expression.   Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or "In the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' that has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India".   To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs.   The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris".   Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs".   We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements.   What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are common for all humans.   There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds and psyches  that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and realise that.   Kshmendra --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM Kshmendra It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak for the majority. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > Here is a thought for everyone > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even suggest > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been timed > to (to quote): > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > """"""" > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking place > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of Pakistan > dismisses any such notion. > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities of > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the seminars and the > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to fool > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others into > beleiving so. > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of the > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in > their country. > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate agenda" runs > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > greeted by the same language? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > wrote: >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai >> >> >>> All this is fine. >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge > to >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > other >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >>> reconciliation can be started. >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > refute >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > terrorists >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil > and >>> did >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > achieved >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit > was >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >>> shrine of Sharda.) >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >>> Sharda >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side > and >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >>> >>> Rashneek >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>>> 2008. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mumbai bloodbath >>>> >>>> >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>>> them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>>> terror. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>>> only when they are translated into action and >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>>> already happened. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> immediately take the following steps: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>>> other; >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>>> shades in both countries; >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>>> between the two countries; >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>>> is in the pipeline. >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>>> peoples of both countries; >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>>> Use of atomic weapons; >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>>> nuclear-free; >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>>> to militarisation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Signatories: >>>> >>>> >>>> Pakistan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>>> Pakistan >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>>> University , Karachi >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>>> Coalition, Islamabad >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>>> Karachi >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>>> Studies, Lahore >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>>> Hyderabad >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>>> Multan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> India >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>>> of Mumbai >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rashneek Kher >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 14:52:32 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:52:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] amazing!! Message-ID: <81614195-3293-4867-9DD6-451449E2B60C@sarai.net> what amazes me in this list is how deep is the desire of some of the subscribers to act like the state. weird. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:49:30 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:49:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Sonia=B9s_presence_in_Delhi_is_costi?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ng_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812020119k4e1df7acke73178f878e3fb78@mail.gmail.com> Aahaan! ..Surely, if one speaks blunt against terrorism, or soft policies to tackle this global mess, he/she is termed notorious for extremist thinking, and further now even being 'right' or maybe 'rightist' is a crime; according to some. Now, how democratic is that on this 'liberal' forum? On 12/2/08, S. Jabbar wrote: > > > > > the French writer Emile Zola wrote an open > > letter to the then French > president in the newspaper L'Aurore, titled j'accuse > > ('I accuse'), where he > accused the French government of anti- Semitism towards > > Captain Alfred > Dreyfus, a Jewish officer unfairly condemned for treason. > > Now > > > > it is time for the people of India to say openly that which many, > including > > within the Congress, think secretly and may utter in the privacy > of their > > chambers. > > > > Uh huh, no doubt the 'People of India' need the prodding of a French > journalist notorious for his extremism and love of all things to the far > right, to throw out the Italian-born wife of a former Indian prime > minister. > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:51:24 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:51:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Sonia=92s_presence_in_Delhi_is_cos?= =?windows-1252?q?ting_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: <3BA9A3DC-CDB3-47D6-AE6C-8989EDDAA9CA@sarai.net> References: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> <3BA9A3DC-CDB3-47D6-AE6C-8989EDDAA9CA@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6353c690812020121y118158a0r2be5315f157765d6@mail.gmail.com> Google is something which might be of help. Go for it.. On 12/2/08, Jeebesh wrote: > > who is this Francois? > > > On 02-Dec-08, at 2:28 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > Sonia's presence in Delhi is costing India dearly > > François Gautier - Indian Express > > > < > http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/searchresult.aspx?AliasName=9Sz/qRu/YvAhRnVbCZ/zGymsmOnOa/2e > > > > > > First Published : 02 Dec 2008 02:37:00 AM IST > > > > > > > > Link - > > > http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Sonia%E2%80%99s+presence+in+Delhi+is+costing+India+dearly&artid=LNnjswClsuc=&SectionID=vBlkz7JCFvA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=m3GntEw72ik=&SEO=Emile,+Zola,+Manmohan,+Singh,Sonia,+Gandhi,+Saudi > > , > > > > 1898, the French writer Emile Zola wrote an open letter to the then > > French > > president in the newspaper L'Aurore, titled j'accuse ('I accuse'), > > where he > > accused the French government of anti- Semitism towards Captain Alfred > > Dreyfus, a Jewish officer unfairly condemned for treason. > > > > Now it is time for the people of India to say openly that which many, > > including within the Congress, think secretly and may utter in the > > privacy > > of their chambers. > > > > It is not about Manmohan Singh, it is not even about Shivraj Patil, > > the fall > > guy; it is about that one person, the Eminence Grise of India. She > > who pulls > > all the strings, She whose shadow looms menacingly over so many, She > > who > > holds no portfolio, is just a simple elected MP, like 540 others, > > but rules > > like an empress. > > > > Sometimes, one's very physical presence at the top is enough to move > > things, > > to influence the course of events. One word from Her, a glance, a > > frown, are > > enough to put the whole heavy, inert, unwilling machinery of India's > > bureaucracy and political system in full motion. Sometimes She need > > not say > > anything: in the true tradition of Bhakti, Her ministers, Her > > secretaries, > > interpret Her silences and rush to cater to Her western and Christian > > identity. > > > > Nevertheless, she has said and acted enough so that one day she may > > stand > > accused on the pages of History for what she must have done to India. > > > > I'accuse Sonia Gandhi as being responsible for the tragedy of > > Mumbai, having > > emasculated India's intelligence agencies by stopping them from > > investigating terror attacks in the last four years, including the > > Mumbai > > train blasts. She has also neutralised the ATS by ordering them at > > all costs > > to ferret out 'Hindu terrorism', which if it exists, has wrought > > minuscule > > damage compared to what Islamic terror has done since 2004. Did the > > US send > > a warning to India that there may be an attack on Mumbai and that > > the Taj > > would be one of the targets? Were these ignored because the ATS was > > too busy > > chasing Hindu 'terrorists' on Sonia's orders? I accuse Sonia and her > > government of having made the NSG the laughing stock of the world. > > How many > > times did the NSG (who took ten hours to reach Mumbai) claim that it > > had > > "sanitised the Taj and that the operation was over" and how many > > times did a > > bomb go off immediately after? For the last 20 years, the NSG has > > guarded > > VIPs and has become soft. See the comments of Israeli terror > > specialists, > > who said the NSG should have first sanitised the immediate > > surroundings of > > the places of conflict, kept the bystanders and press (who gave > > terrorists > > watching TV in the Taj rooms a perfect report of the security forces' > > whereabouts) out of the place, gathered enough information about the > > position of the terrorists and hostages before taking action, > > instead of > > immediately engaging the terrorists, and ensuring the deaths of so > > many > > hostages. > > > > I accuse Sonia of having let her Christian and Western background, > > in four > > years, divide India on religious and caste lines in a cynical and > > methodical > > manner. > > > > I accuse Sonia of weakening India's spirit of sacrifice and courage, > > so that > > 20 terrorists (or less) held at ransom the financial capital of > > India for > > more than three days. > > > > I accuse Sonia Gandhi of always pointing the finger at Pakistan, when > > terrorism in India is now mostly homegrown, even if it takes help, > > training, > > refuge and arms from Pakistan; of not warning Indians of the grave > > dangers > > of Islamic terror for cynical election purposes. > > > > I accuse Sonia of being an enemy of the Hindus, who always gave > > refuge to > > persecuted minorities, and who are the only people in the world to > > accept > > that God may manifest under different names, in different epochs, > > using > > different scriptures. > > > > I accuse Sonia Gandhi of taking advantage of India's respect for > > women, its > > undue fascination with the Gandhi name, and its stupid mania for > > White Skin. > > > > I'accuse Sonia of exploiting the Indian Press' obsession with her. She > > hardly ever gave interview in 20 years, except scripted ones to > > NDTV, yet > > the Press always protects her, never blames her and keeps silent > > over her > > covert role. > > > > I'accuse Sonia and her government of trying to make heroes of > > subservient > > and inefficient men to hide the humiliation of Mumbai 26/11. Before > > going to > > his death, Hemant Karkare, the ATS chief, was shown on television > > clumsily > > handling his helmet, as someone who uses it very rarely. Why did he > > die of > > bullet wounds in the chest when he was wearing a bullet-proof vest? > > Either > > Indian vests are inferior quality or he was not wearing one. > > > > How did the terrorists who killed him and his fellow officer escape > > in the > > same vehicle used by the ATS chief ? Why did he and his officers go > > into > > Cama Hospital without ascertaining where the terrorists were? We > > honour his > > death, but these facts say a lot about the ATS' battle-readiness. > > > > Will someone in the Congress, someone who feels more Indian than > > faithful to > > Sonia, stand up and speak the truth? Who said, "Go after Hindu > > terrorists"? > > Who insisted on putting pressure on BJP governments in Karnataka or > > Orissa > > for so-called persecution of Christians, when Christians have always > > practised their faith in total freedom here, while their > > missionaries are > > converting hundreds of thousands of innocent tribals and Dalits with > > the > > billions of dollars given by gullible westerners? Who said, "Go soft > > on > > Islamic terrorism"? Who wants to do away with India's nuclear > > deterrence in > > the face of Pakistani and Chinese nuclear threats, by pushing at all > > costs > > the one sided Indo-US nuclear deal, which makes no secret of its > > intention > > to denuclearise India militarily? I am sure Sonia Gandhi has good > > qualities: > > she probably was a good wife to Rajiv, a good daughter in law to > > Indira and > > by all accounts, she is a good mother to her children. One also hears > > first-hand reports about her concern for smaller people, her dignity > > in the > > suffering that befell her when her husband was blown to pieces, and > > her > > courtesy with visitors. > > > > Nevertheless, she is a danger to India. > > > > Her very presence, both physical and occult, open the doors to forces > > inimical to India. Even Indian Christians should understand that she > > is not > > a gift to them: her presence at the top has emboldened fanatics like > > John > > Dayal or Valson Thampu, who practise an orthodox Christianity > > prevalent in > > the West in the early 20th century, but no longer, to radicalise their > > flock. Indian Christians should recognise that they have a much > > better deal > > here than Christians or Hindus have in Pakistan, Bangladesh, > > Indonesia or > > Saudi Arabia. > > > > Under Sonia's rule, Indian Muslims, too, have been used as electoral > > pawns. > > They have been encouraged to shun the Sufi streak, a blend of the > > best of > > Islam and Vedanta, for a hard-line Sunni brand imported from Saudi > > Arabia, > > Pakistan and Afghanistan. > > > > For the good of India, her civilisation, her immense spirituality and > > culture, Sonia Gandhi has to go and a government that thinks Indian, > > breathes nationalism and will protect its citizens must be voted to > > power. > > > > > *— fgautier at auroville.org.in* > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 14:56:41 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:56:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Aren't all these Hates mutually contradictory and at times opposition to each other.? On 02-Dec-08, at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through > the years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for > Everyone Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure > extend themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate > Kashmiris". > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own > convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards > Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate > Shias", "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate > Deobandhis", "Hate Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs". From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 14:53:58 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:23:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <880993.53750.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   I was commenting on the posted article and not for a moment suggesting that you subscribe to all the views expressed therein.   Registered the other points made by you. Will not nitpick.   K --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" , taraprakash at gmail.com Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:21 PM Dear Kshmendra On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > 1. If the position of Muslims in India is as terrible as it is made out to > be, why is it that Muslims from Bangladesh in substantially large numbers > have made India their home by illegal ingress and continue to do so? 1. I have never used the words "terrible" about Indian Muslims in any of my posts. Most of the time I reserve that adjective and energy for the condition of minorities in Bangladesh, which is more directly my field of work. If a news item forwarded by me carries the words "terrible" about Indian Muslims, that does not mean those are my descriptors. I may agree with some parts of an analysis, and not others, but will of course forward the whole article to let people read and judge. 2. While I do not use the word "terrible", I would certainly say Muslims are in an economically disadvantaged situation in India. I also believe Hindus are in an economically disadvantaged situation in Bangladesh. That is Partition's lasting legacy on both sides of borders. Comparisons between countries are not terribly interesting, but certainly I feel positions of Hindus in Bangladesh is very weak, and it is one of the issues I work on. 3. The reason Bangladeshis migrate to India is because even the economically disadvantaged situation in India is preferable to their economic situation in Bangladesh. But we must also be aware that not every person identified as "Bangladeshi" by rightist politicians is Bangladeshi. This term is also used to skapegoat Bengali Muslims broadly as an election strategy. > 2. There are quite a few Indian Muslims in the Gulf. Many of them are as > rich as any Indian from any other faith. If they wanted to, these rich > Indian Muslims could shed all their interests in India and emigrate not just > with family but whole clans to countries where "residence through > investment" can be secured. They do not. I personally do not know of even > one such example. Why do they not if the position of Muslims in India is as > terrible as is being suggested? I don't know, this is an interesting question. > 3. When Muslims in India make it to the 'directly elected by people' > legislatures and do so not solely on the basis of the 'Muslim Vote', it > suggests that things cannot be too terrible for Indian Muslims. I agree that Muslims in India getting elected to Indian legislature is a good thing when it happens. In absolute numbers, I am sure Muslim political representation inside India is better than Hindu political representation in Bangladesh. But should Indians be satisfied with that comparison and consider the issue resolved. > Are Muslims as a minority disadvantaged in India? Of course they are but > that is not something peculiar happening with Indian Muslims only. That is > true of a minority in any part of the world especially when the 'available > cake' is not large enough. Agreed. > It is true of Non-Muslim 'minorities' (on the basis of caste or faith) in > many parts of India itself. Agreed as well. > The exclusions to this are where a 'minority' grouping has created it's own > strong institutional framework to 'look after their own'. Cases in example > are the Parsis, Bohris, Aga Khanis. > > Minorities in any part of the world in most countries find themselves best > catered to through "Self-Employment of Professionals", "Individual > Enterprise", "Individual Entrepreneurship". They find themselves exceling > where full dividends being realised from the skills of the individual are > not slave to governmental or even corporate structures. > > In India this is certainly true in the fields Fine Arts, Performing Arts and > Sports apart from Doctors and Lawyers and Accountants etc. But it is also > true for India that many Muslims have reached many high positions in > government and corporate structures. > > These "Oh! my poor suffering Muslim brothers and sisters" articulations from > "abroad" such as Asra Nomani's only do harm to Muslims and seek to create > divides. They seek to stoke trouble. We have seen that happening with the > Sikhs and now also with the Hindus. They are enemies of India. From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 14:58:37 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:58:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Sonia=B9s_presence_in_Delhi_is_costi?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ng_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690812020119k4e1df7acke73178f878e3fb78@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812020119k4e1df7acke73178f878e3fb78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <933FD510-D4A1-44D1-BC50-D7F3658A3666@sarai.net> On 02-Dec-08, at 2:49 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Now, how democratic is that on this 'liberal' forum? Google it. The Archives are public :) From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:57:41 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:57:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Sonia=B9s_presence_in_Delhi_is_costi?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ng_India_dearly?= In-Reply-To: <933FD510-D4A1-44D1-BC50-D7F3658A3666@sarai.net> References: <6353c690812020058u29e93f5bw1dff5eaede6dbb52@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812020119k4e1df7acke73178f878e3fb78@mail.gmail.com> <933FD510-D4A1-44D1-BC50-D7F3658A3666@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6353c690812020127s685ffdb1q21e3037c1bb50e9f@mail.gmail.com> lol... true..!! Every single word is!! On 12/2/08, Jeebesh wrote: > > > On 02-Dec-08, at 2:49 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > Now, how democratic is that on this 'liberal' forum? > > > Google it. The Archives are public :) > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:58:36 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:58:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Ten problems with the 24 hour TV news reporting In-Reply-To: <008701c95436$3e2eee40$0301a8c0@bishakha6bbb1b> Message-ID: ------ Forwarded Message From: Bishakha Datta Reply-To: Bishakha Datta Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:57:02 +0530 Subject: Ten problems with the 24 hour TV news reporting of the recent attacks on Mumbai: > > > 1)Speculative, not fact-based. The numbers of gunmen entering Bombay dropped > from 20-25 to 10 across three days and from 5-7 at Taj to 4; 7-10 at > Oberoi/Trident to 2. This causes needless panic; many of us still think there > are gunmen out there. Ditto vis-a-vis boat routes to enter Bombay (one day > Badhwar Park, next day Gateway of India). Don't report what is just said > can't be verified - or atleast question statements from politicians! > Otherwise, it's like reporting rumour: which is what happened Fri aft when > channels reported non-existent gunfire at several places. > > > > 2)Unquestioning. How many gunmen were there actually? How many people > actually died? How many boats came into Mumbai? How did the Wadi Bandar and > Vile Parle blasts take place? How could 2 gunmen hold up a 350-plus room twin > hotel like the Trident/Oberoi? These are just the first five - most basic - > questions off the top of my head. Never heard any of them asked. I'm not even > going into the lack of qs around 'Pak' involvement. > > > > 3)Class-biased. Where was VT on our TV screens, even though that was attacked > at the same time as the two hotels/Chabad House - and which 40 lakh > Bombayites use? After the first night, VT station and all the hospitals where > the injured were taken - Cama, JJ, St George, Bombay - were taken off our > radar (even though they are all in south Bombay, minutes from where the media > was gathered in full force). > > > > 4)Opinionated, not fact-based. What does 'Pakistani involvement' mean? No > distinction between Pakistani elements and the Pakistani state: particularly > given the complex political situ in Pakistan; I have yet to hear one anchor > or reporter ask the question: what's the proof? (In a hypothetical case, if a > cell phone with calls to India were found somewhere else in the world, does > it indicate that 'India was involved'?) > > > > 5)Simplistic. The coverage became a parable of good vs evil; 'bravehearts vs > cowards' 'unsung heroes vs villains', which has now swung to 'Pakistan vs > India'. > > > > 6)Stupid. What exactly are victims of gunmen supposed to say when asked how > they feel? 'Did you feel scared'? (No, I felt elated after spending 10 hours > hearing bombs explode around me!!!) Many such stupid questions incl those > asked to Ratan Tata on Thu eve. > > > > 7)Invasive. The NDTV interview with Sabina Sehgal Saikia's husband when all > the facts pointed to her probable death is a case in point. > > > > 8)Dangerous. Giving away the locations of those stuck or hidden in > rooms/halls at the two hotels. Ditto with jingoism masquerading as > patriotism/nationalism in the 'Pakistan' vs 'India' tenor of reporting. > > > > 9)Loaded. Constant use of emotionally-loaded terms: 'terrorists' not > 'gunmen', 'dastardly', 'heinous', 'cowardly deeds' et al. > > > > 10)Theatrical. There was enough drama there; we didn't need faux drama on top > of that. Barkha Dutt's coverage of the ground floor of the Taj is a case in > point. "Shattered glass!! shattered glass!!" she hyper-ventilated in a broken > voice. What did she expect to find? A rare orchid? > > > > Bishakha www.sohailaink.com ------ End of Forwarded Message From shumonagoel at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 15:05:37 2008 From: shumonagoel at gmail.com (Shumona Goel) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:05:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43bd75950812020135o597e9fb1yb7ea2bc580f60114@mail.gmail.com> Dear Ms. Kaul, Your emails are full of hatred and violence. We have seen enough violence -- it is upsetting to read your emails, we are upset enough. Where do you live? Certainly not in Bombay. Please read this: As the smoke lifts from Mumbai, skepticism must prevail over those conjectures which support the official state narrative. It is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency and accountability at this moment to ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post-9/11 USA. By Biju Mathew This piece originally appeared in Samar 31, published online December 1st, 2008. The deaths continue even as I write this. The death toll stands at 195. And of the several hundred injured some may not survive. It is now official. The siege is over. The last of the gunmen inside the Taj Hotel has been shot dead. The Oberoi/Trident hotel was cleared earlier today and the Nariman House Jewish Center at the corner of Third Pasta Lane on the Colaba Causeway was stormed close to 24 hours ago. The other targets - the Leopold Cafe (a popular tourist hangout), the CST railway terminus (also called the Victoria Terminus), the Metro Cinema, the Cama Hospital, all seem to be targets the gunmen attacked as they zoned in on the hotels and Nariman House. In the end this has become a story of two sets of men with guns. The human story of the innocents who died, the hotel staff who kept their cool and moved guests around the hotel through the service entryways and exits, those who helped each other escape, will not really make it to the headlines. The maintenance worker at the Oberoi who shielded guests and took the bullets in his stomach will remain unsung. The hospital orderlies who ran in and out with stretchers carrying the wounded - each time not knowing if they will make it back themselves to the ambulance, will not be noted. The several trainee chefs at the Taj who fell to bullets even as other kitchen workers escorted guests away from the firing and hid them inside a private clubroom will not be written up in the book of heroes. The young waiter at Leopold who was to leave to work in a Cape Town restaurant will soon be forgotten. The two young men who dragged an Australian tourist shot in the leg away from the Leopold entrance and carried her to a taxi will not even identify themselves so that she can thank them. These stories, in as much as they are told, will remain on the lips of only the workers, the guests and the tourists who helped each other. The officials will try and produce a clean story to tell the world. And we know the clean story is untrue. The official story that has already begun to emerge is one that may have some facts embedded in it. But we must remember that between every two facts is a lot of conjecture. The conjectures that unite the few facts (16 gunmen, AK47s, grenades, passports of multiple nationalities, boats on which at least some of them arrived, a dead Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant Karkare, who was heading the investigation against the Hindu Right wings' terror campaign, the gunmen trying to identify British and American citizens) makes the story. The story then is as much a product of the conjecture as it is of the facts. And there are certain stories that we are already oriented towards. The conjectures that create that story - the story we are already prepared for - is the one the State will dole out for our consumption. Already the conjectures that will serve the State, are out there in great profusion. Several reporters have noted that the gunmen were clean-shaven, dressed in jeans and T-shirts. The silent conjecture is that they were expecting and were surprised by the fact that these men did not have beards and did not sport the Muslim prayer cap. Every newspaper worth its salt - the Times of India, the Jerusalem Post, the Independent from the UK, among scores of others - have already run commentary on the unsecured coastline of India. The conjectural subtext is that securing the coastline is possible and if India had done so, this attack would have been prevented. There is also a quick labeling going on -- India's 9/11. The subtext is that India could and should act as the US did after 9/11 - decisively and with great aggression. There is also the subtext that the Indian State is soft on terror that adds to the US-tough-on-terror contrast. Sadanand Dhume, writing in the Wall Street Journal, has castigated the Indian government for withdrawing the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) and for preventing states like Gujarat from passing their own version of the draconian worse-than-Patriot Act legislations. Neither Mr. Dhume, nor the several reporters who will now write stories about how the POTA repeal represents the Indian State's soft attitude towards terror will ever feel the need to explain how POTA could have prevented this attack. The dead are on the floor. The vultures are moving in. The conjecture will try to unite the country into a series of unexamined positions. That POTA must be recalled. That States must be allowed to pass even more draconian laws. That Hindu terror is not a big issue and must be forgotten for now - especially now that we may not find an honest policeman or woman to head the ATS. That the defense budget must go up. That the coastline must be secured. None of the well educated masters of the media will write that the 7000 odd kilometer coastline cannot be protected - that all it will translate to is billions in contracts for all and sundry including Israeli and American consultants. Nobody will write that a hundred POTAs will not prevent a terror attack like this one; that Guantanamo Bay has not yielded a single break through. Nobody will write that higher defense budgets have been more often correlated with insecure and militarized lives for ordinary citizens. Nobody will write that almost without exception all of US post 9/111 policies have been disasters. Bin Laden is still around, I am told and so is the Al Qaeda. The number of fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Jews have probably gone up over the last decade. So much for good policy. But the conjecture will go on. The foreign hand and its internal partner will be floated without ever naming anything precise. But the country will read it just as it is meant to be read - Pakistan and the Indian Muslim. Everything will rest on the supposed confession of the one gunman who has been captured. A Pakistani from Faridkot, I am told. Why should we believe it? Didn't the same Indian State frame all the supposed accomplices in the Parliament attack case? Didn't the same Indian State claim that the assassins of Chattisinghpura were from across the border until that story fell apart? And more recently, didn't the same Indian State finally agree that all the accused in the Mecca Masjid bombings were actually innocent? And even if Mr. Assassin supposedly from Faridkot did say what he did say - why should we believe him? Why is it so difficult to believe that he has his lines ready and scripted? If he was willing to die for whatever cause he murdered for, then can he not lie? Oh the lie detector test - that completely discredited science that every militarized State trots out. And the media love the lie detector test because it is the best scientific garb you can give to conjecture. I certainly don't know the truth. But I do know that there is more than enough reason for skepticism. The problem is that we need a new theory of the State. We need to re-understand the State. There is such unanimity when it comes to analyzing the Pakistani State - that the ISI, and if not all of the ISI, at least a segment of it, is a rogue element Furthermore, that its bosses may not be sitting in Islamabad, but perhaps elsewhere in the country or even abroad. If we can accept that about the Pakistani State, why is it so difficult to accept it about the Indian State? We all know that Colin Powell was a kind of a patsy - a fall guy, who trotted out some lies on behalf of a segment of the neo-conservative movement firmly entrenched within the American State (which Obama will not touch). We also know that if the ISI has a rogue element in it, it was in good part created by the CIA. Then why do we think that the same guys couldn't render another State - such as the US - itself hollow from the inside. The contemporary State is a different being. For every story of money-corruption you hear, there could just as well be one of political-corruption. Every vested interest who locates himself inside the State apparatus is not just a vested interest going after money but could just as well be securing the space for creating a certain politics. The RSS has a long history of trying to take over the bureaucracy, doesn't it? So do the neo-cons and so do the jamaatis. Then why do we believe in a theory of the State that is unified and with liberal goals? The history of the liberal State and its relationship with capitalism of all types is a simple one. The longer that relationship persists the more corrupt and hollow the liberal State gets, leaving the space open for political ideologies to occupy its very insides. The logic for this is inherent in the very system. If profit is above all, then given the power the State has, it must be bought. Cheney is no different from Shivraj Patil, and Ambani is no different from Halliburton. They are both part of the story of hollowing the State out. And once the hollowing process begins, every ideological force can find its way in, as long as it has resources. The archetypal bourgeois liberal State is over. It never really existed, but what we have at the end of four decades of neo-liberalism bears no resemblance to the ideal formulation whatsoever. What we have instead is a series of hollowed out States with their nooks and crannies, their departments and offices populated with specific neo-conservative ideological interests. The US has its variant. India has its. And Israel its very own. It is incapable of delivering the truth, and not just the truth, it is only capable of producing lies. If this story of skepticism makes sense then we have only one choice. To understand that it is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency at this moment, to be relentless in our demand for openness and detail, in our call to ensure that no investigation or inquiry that was in place be halted and that every one of these be subjected to public scrutiny. It is our responsibility to reject the discourse of secrecy based on security and demand specific standards of transparency. What we should demand is that every senior minister and every senior intelligence officer be examined and the records be made available to the public. What we must demand is that an officer of impeccable record be found to replace Hemant Karkare. What we must demand is that we get explanations of how a POTA clone would have stopped this crime. What we must ask is how POTA or the Patriot Act could have ever helped prevent terror? What we must do is support the Karkare family in their demand for a full investigation of his death in the company of the encounter specialist- Salaskar. What we must have is an open debate on every single case of terror over the last decade in India. When I am in Bombay, I always stay at a friend's on Third Pasta Lane. Each afternoon I would walk out and see the Nariman House. I have wondered what the decrepit building was. I have always contrasted the drabness of the building with the colorful sign on the next building that announces Colaba Sweet House. The next time I won't wonder. I will know that it was one of the places where the drama that inaugurated India's renewed march towards fascism unfolded. Unless we act. Unless we act with speed and determination demanding transparency and accountability and a careful rewriting of the story of terror in India. Only a renewed movement can ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post 9/11 USA. Biju Mathew is a member of the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate and the Coalition Against Genocide and is a co-founder of the New York Taxi Worker Alliance. On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it > unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the realities > in Pakistan. > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming > majority of Pakistanis" > > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. Ignoring > that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to go > unchallenged. > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed and > well-reasoned evaluations. > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or > completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The > 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > (violent) expression. > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or "In > the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it > together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' that > has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India". > > To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the > years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone Else" > including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure extend > themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate > Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris". > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own > convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards > Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs". > > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of > expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements. > > What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the > "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". > But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are > common for all humans. > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds and > psyches that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for > "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study Pakistan to > understand and realise that. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM > > Kshmendra > It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs > in the > veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." > > I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for > roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. > Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing > vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. > > And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to > hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a > million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). > But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak > for the majority. > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Naeem > > > > Here is a thought for everyone > > > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would > > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even > suggest > > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been > timed > > to (to quote): > > > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the > two countries concluded > > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes > for > > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners > and > > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on > > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian > capital > > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > > """"""" > > > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken > > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking > place > > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of > Pakistan > > dismisses any such notion. > > > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities > of > > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the > seminars and the > > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to > fool > > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others > into > > beleiving so. > > > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of > the > > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would > > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in > > their country. > > > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate > agenda" runs > > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen > wrote: > > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > To: "taraprakash" > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > > greeted by the same language? > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > > wrote: > >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has > several > >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP > >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew > venom > >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are > friends > >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > > > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > >> Cc: > >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > >> > >> > >>> All this is fine. > >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and > refuge > > to > >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > > other > >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process > of > >>> reconciliation can be started. > >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > > refute > >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > > terrorists > >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in > Kargil > > and > >>> did > >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and > not > >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the > composite > >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > > achieved > >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri > Pandit > > was > >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the > sacred > >>> shrine of Sharda.) > >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not > to > >>> Sharda > >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its > side > > and > >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible > evidence. > >>> > >>> Rashneek > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press > >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 > >>>> 2008. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mumbai bloodbath > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody > >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a > >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries > >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of > >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We > >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies > >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of > >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with > >>>> them. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating > >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of > >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved > >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits > >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish > >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this > >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it > >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the > >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries > >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced > >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace > >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes > >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, > >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal > >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint > >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a > >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign > >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding > >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian > >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The > >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two > >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they > >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments > >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued > >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and > >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and > >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the > >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. > >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly > >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, > >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why > >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and > >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating > >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more > >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing > >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to > >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming > >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently > >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be > >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both > >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India > >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with > >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in > >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for > >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole > >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate > >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai > >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the > >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an > >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes > >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and > >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people > >>>> terror. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of > >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and > >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning > >>>> only when they are translated into action and > >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without > >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in > >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the > >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to > >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance > >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves > >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass > >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must > >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not > >>>> already happened. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to > >>>> immediately take the following steps: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each > >>>> other; > >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all > >>>> shades in both countries; > >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of > >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts > >>>> between the two countries; > >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between > >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We > >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and > >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and > >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu > >>>> is in the pipeline. > >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of > >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and > >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at > >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary > >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free > >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the > >>>> peoples of both countries; > >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First > >>>> Use of atomic weapons; > >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia > >>>> nuclear-free; > >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end > >>>> to militarisation. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Signatories: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Pakistan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights > >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of > >>>> Pakistan > >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for > >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi > >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental > >>>> University , Karachi > >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace > >>>> Coalition, Islamabad > >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, > >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association > >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan > >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi > >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , > >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD > >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan > >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh > >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan > >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi > >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh > >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad > >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre > >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University > >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National > >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas > >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia > >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore > >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, > >>>> Karachi > >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi > >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular > >>>> Studies, Lahore > >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi > >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh > >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, > >>>> Hyderabad > >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi > >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi > >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , > >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation > >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress > >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi > >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore > >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi > >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food > >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi > >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi > >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor > >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal > >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, > >>>> Multan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> India > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High > >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi > >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former > >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi > >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai > >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi > >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune > >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra > >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai > >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai > >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi > >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai > >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai > >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi > >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai > >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University > >>>> of Mumbai > >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai > >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai > >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi > >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai > >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited > >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern > >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , > >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar > >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai > >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai > >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai > >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers > >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai > >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai > >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD > >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad > >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi > >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Rashneek Kher > >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > > > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in > > the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 15:13:43 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:13:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <43bd75950812020135o597e9fb1yb7ea2bc580f60114@mail.gmail.com> References: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <43bd75950812020135o597e9fb1yb7ea2bc580f60114@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812020143q16383f17tf08a1d1c6d4bdd65@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shumona, How did you come to this conclusion of 'Ms. Kaul' ? Anyways, he is Kshmendra Kaul, as I can see. Secondly, lets not close our eyes to reality, truth; though it does indeed pain to hear out these strong and hard facts put out in detail by Mr. Kshmendra Kaul. We've certainly seen enough violence, but we'll continue to if we don't raise our voice together against it, and end this menace, once and for all times to come. Lets not again tolerate this bull-shit and forgive them.. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On 12/2/08, Shumona Goel wrote: > > Dear Ms. Kaul, > > Your emails are full of hatred and violence. We have seen enough violence > -- it is upsetting to read your emails, we are upset enough. Where do you > live? Certainly not in Bombay. > > Please read this: > > > As the smoke lifts from Mumbai, skepticism must prevail over those > conjectures which support the official state narrative. It is crucial to > increase the pressure for transparency and accountability at this moment to > ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post-9/11 USA. > > By Biju Mathew > > This piece originally appeared in Samar 31, published online December 1st, > 2008. > The deaths continue even as I write this. The death toll stands at 195. And > of the several hundred injured some may not survive. It is now official. > The > siege is over. The last of the gunmen inside the Taj Hotel has been shot > dead. The Oberoi/Trident hotel was cleared earlier today and the Nariman > House Jewish Center at the corner of Third Pasta Lane on the Colaba > Causeway > was stormed close to 24 hours ago. The other targets - the Leopold Cafe (a > popular tourist hangout), the CST railway terminus (also called the > Victoria > Terminus), the Metro Cinema, the Cama Hospital, all seem to be targets the > gunmen attacked as they zoned in on the hotels and Nariman House. In the > end > this has become a story of two sets of men with guns. > The human story of the innocents who died, the hotel staff who kept their > cool and moved guests around the hotel through the service entryways and > exits, those who helped each other escape, will not really make it to the > headlines. The maintenance worker at the Oberoi who shielded guests and > took > the bullets in his stomach will remain unsung. The hospital orderlies who > ran in and out with stretchers carrying the wounded - each time not knowing > if they will make it back themselves to the ambulance, will not be noted. > The several trainee chefs at the Taj who fell to bullets even as other > kitchen workers escorted guests away from the firing and hid them inside a > private clubroom will not be written up in the book of heroes. The young > waiter at Leopold who was to leave to work in a Cape Town restaurant will > soon be forgotten. The two young men who dragged an Australian tourist shot > in the leg away from the Leopold entrance and carried her to a taxi will > not > even identify themselves so that she can thank them. These stories, in as > much as they are told, will remain on the lips of only the workers, the > guests and the tourists who helped each other. The officials will try and > produce a clean story to tell the world. And we know the clean story is > untrue. > The official story that has already begun to emerge is one that may have > some facts embedded in it. But we must remember that between every two > facts > is a lot of conjecture. The conjectures that unite the few facts (16 > gunmen, > AK47s, grenades, passports of multiple nationalities, boats on which at > least some of them arrived, a dead Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant > Karkare, who was heading the investigation against the Hindu Right wings' > terror campaign, the gunmen trying to identify British and American > citizens) makes the story. The story then is as much a product of the > conjecture as it is of the facts. And there are certain stories that we are > already oriented towards. The conjectures that create that story - the > story > we are already prepared for - is the one the State will dole out for our > consumption. Already the conjectures that will serve the State, are out > there in great profusion. > Several reporters have noted that the gunmen were clean-shaven, dressed in > jeans and T-shirts. The silent conjecture is that they were expecting and > were surprised by the fact that these men did not have beards and did not > sport the Muslim prayer cap. Every newspaper worth its salt - the Times of > India, the Jerusalem Post, the Independent from the UK, among scores of > others - have already run commentary on the unsecured coastline of India. > The conjectural subtext is that securing the coastline is possible and if > India had done so, this attack would have been prevented. > There is also a quick labeling going on -- India's 9/11. The subtext is > that > India could and should act as the US did after 9/11 - decisively and with > great aggression. There is also the subtext that the Indian State is soft > on > terror that adds to the US-tough-on-terror contrast. Sadanand Dhume, > writing > in the Wall Street Journal, has castigated the Indian government for > withdrawing the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) and for preventing > states > like Gujarat from passing their own version of the draconian > worse-than-Patriot Act legislations. Neither Mr. Dhume, nor the several > reporters who will now write stories about how the POTA repeal represents > the Indian State's soft attitude towards terror will ever feel the need to > explain how POTA could have prevented this attack. > The dead are on the floor. The vultures are moving in. The conjecture will > try to unite the country into a series of unexamined positions. That POTA > must be recalled. That States must be allowed to pass even more draconian > laws. That Hindu terror is not a big issue and must be forgotten for now - > especially now that we may not find an honest policeman or woman to head > the > ATS. That the defense budget must go up. That the coastline must be > secured. > None of the well educated masters of the media will write that the 7000 odd > kilometer coastline cannot be protected - that all it will translate to is > billions in contracts for all and sundry including Israeli and American > consultants. Nobody will write that a hundred POTAs will not prevent a > terror attack like this one; that Guantanamo Bay has not yielded a single > break through. Nobody will write that higher defense budgets have been more > often correlated with insecure and militarized lives for ordinary citizens. > Nobody will write that almost without exception all of US post 9/111 > policies have been disasters. Bin Laden is still around, I am told and so > is > the Al Qaeda. The number of fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, Hindus and > Jews have probably gone up over the last decade. So much for good policy. > But the conjecture will go on. > The foreign hand and its internal partner will be floated without ever > naming anything precise. But the country will read it just as it is meant > to > be read - Pakistan and the Indian Muslim. Everything will rest on the > supposed confession of the one gunman who has been captured. A Pakistani > from Faridkot, I am told. Why should we believe it? Didn't the same Indian > State frame all the supposed accomplices in the Parliament attack case? > Didn't the same Indian State claim that the assassins of Chattisinghpura > were from across the border until that story fell apart? And more recently, > didn't the same Indian State finally agree that all the accused in the > Mecca > Masjid bombings were actually innocent? And even if Mr. Assassin supposedly > from Faridkot did say what he did say - why should we believe him? Why is > it > so difficult to believe that he has his lines ready and scripted? If he was > willing to die for whatever cause he murdered for, then can he not lie? Oh > the lie detector test - that completely discredited science that every > militarized State trots out. And the media love the lie detector test > because it is the best scientific garb you can give to conjecture. > I certainly don't know the truth. But I do know that there is more than > enough reason for skepticism. The problem is that we need a new theory of > the State. We need to re-understand the State. > There is such unanimity when it comes to analyzing the Pakistani State - > that the ISI, and if not all of the ISI, at least a segment of it, is a > rogue element Furthermore, that its bosses may not be sitting in Islamabad, > but perhaps elsewhere in the country or even abroad. If we can accept that > about the Pakistani State, why is it so difficult to accept it about the > Indian State? We all know that Colin Powell was a kind of a patsy - a fall > guy, who trotted out some lies on behalf of a segment of the > neo-conservative movement firmly entrenched within the American State > (which > Obama will not touch). We also know that if the ISI has a rogue element in > it, it was in good part created by the CIA. Then why do we think that the > same guys couldn't render another State - such as the US - itself hollow > from the inside. > The contemporary State is a different being. For every story of > money-corruption you hear, there could just as well be one of > political-corruption. Every vested interest who locates himself inside the > State apparatus is not just a vested interest going after money but could > just as well be securing the space for creating a certain politics. The RSS > has a long history of trying to take over the bureaucracy, doesn't it? So > do > the neo-cons and so do the jamaatis. Then why do we believe in a theory of > the State that is unified and with liberal goals? > The history of the liberal State and its relationship with capitalism of > all > types is a simple one. The longer that relationship persists the more > corrupt and hollow the liberal State gets, leaving the space open for > political ideologies to occupy its very insides. The logic for this is > inherent in the very system. If profit is above all, then given the power > the State has, it must be bought. Cheney is no different from Shivraj > Patil, > and Ambani is no different from Halliburton. They are both part of the > story > of hollowing the State out. And once the hollowing process begins, every > ideological force can find its way in, as long as it has resources. The > archetypal bourgeois liberal State is over. It never really existed, but > what we have at the end of four decades of neo-liberalism bears no > resemblance to the ideal formulation whatsoever. What we have instead is a > series of hollowed out States with their nooks and crannies, their > departments and offices populated with specific neo-conservative > ideological > interests. The US has its variant. India has its. And Israel its very own. > It is incapable of delivering the truth, and not just the truth, it is only > capable of producing lies. > If this story of skepticism makes sense then we have only one choice. To > understand that it is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency at > this moment, to be relentless in our demand for openness and detail, in our > call to ensure that no investigation or inquiry that was in place be halted > and that every one of these be subjected to public scrutiny. It is our > responsibility to reject the discourse of secrecy based on security and > demand specific standards of transparency. What we should demand is that > every senior minister and every senior intelligence officer be examined and > the records be made available to the public. What we must demand is that an > officer of impeccable record be found to replace Hemant Karkare. What we > must demand is that we get explanations of how a POTA clone would have > stopped this crime. What we must ask is how POTA or the Patriot Act could > have ever helped prevent terror? What we must do is support the Karkare > family in their demand for a full investigation of his death in the company > of the encounter specialist- Salaskar. What we must have is an open debate > on every single case of terror over the last decade in India. > When I am in Bombay, I always stay at a friend's on Third Pasta Lane. Each > afternoon I would walk out and see the Nariman House. I have wondered what > the decrepit building was. I have always contrasted the drabness of the > building with the colorful sign on the next building that announces Colaba > Sweet House. The next time I won't wonder. I will know that it was one of > the places where the drama that inaugurated India's renewed march towards > fascism unfolded. Unless we act. Unless we act with speed and determination > demanding transparency and accountability and a careful rewriting of the > story of terror in India. Only a renewed movement can ensure that India > doesn't slide into the same state as post 9/11 USA. > Biju Mathew is a member of the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate and the > Coalition Against Genocide and is a co-founder of the New York Taxi Worker > Alliance. > > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >wrote: > > > > Dear Naeem > > > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it > > unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the > realities > > in Pakistan. > > > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > > > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming > > majority of Pakistanis" > > > > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. Ignoring > > that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to > go > > unchallenged. > > > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed and > > well-reasoned evaluations. > > > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or > > completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The > > 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > > (violent) expression. > > > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or > "In > > the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it > > together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' that > > has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India". > > > > To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the > > years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone Else" > > including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > > > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure extend > > themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate > > Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris". > > > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own > > convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards > > Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate > > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs". > > > > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of > > expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements. > > > > What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the > > "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for > roti-kapra-makaan". > > But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are > > common for all humans. > > > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds > and > > psyches that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought > for > > "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study Pakistan > to > > understand and realise that. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > > Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM > > > > Kshmendra > > It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs > > in the > > veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." > > > > I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for > > roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. > > Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing > > vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. > > > > And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to > > hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a > > million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). > > But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak > > for the majority. > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > > wrote: > > > Dear Naeem > > > > > > Here is a thought for everyone > > > > > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed > would > > > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > > > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > > > > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even > > suggest > > > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been > > timed > > > to (to quote): > > > > > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the > > two countries concluded > > > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > > > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land > routes > > for > > > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > > > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners > > and > > > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that > on > > > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian > > capital > > > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > > > """"""" > > > > > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have > taken > > > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking > > place > > > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > > > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of > > Pakistan > > > dismisses any such notion. > > > > > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the > realities > > of > > > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > > > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the > > seminars and the > > > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to > > fool > > > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others > > into > > > beleiving so. > > > > > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of > > the > > > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it > would > > > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right > in > > > their country. > > > > > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate > > agenda" runs > > > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > > To: "taraprakash" > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > > > > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > > > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > > > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > > > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > > > > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > > > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > > > greeted by the same language? > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > > > wrote: > > >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has > > several > > >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP > > >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew > > venom > > >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are > > friends > > >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > > > > > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > >> Cc: > > >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > >> > > >> > > >>> All this is fine. > > >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and > > refuge > > > to > > >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > > > other > > >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process > > of > > >>> reconciliation can be started. > > >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > > > refute > > >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > > > terrorists > > >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > > >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in > > Kargil > > > and > > >>> did > > >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and > > not > > >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the > > composite > > >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > > > achieved > > >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri > > Pandit > > > was > > >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the > > sacred > > >>> shrine of Sharda.) > > >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not > > to > > >>> Sharda > > >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its > > side > > > and > > >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible > > evidence. > > >>> > > >>> Rashneek > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen > > >>> > > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press > > >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 > > >>>> 2008. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Mumbai bloodbath > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody > > >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a > > >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries > > >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of > > >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We > > >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies > > >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of > > >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with > > >>>> them. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating > > >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of > > >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved > > >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits > > >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish > > >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this > > >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it > > >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the > > >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries > > >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced > > >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace > > >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes > > >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, > > >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal > > >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint > > >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a > > >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign > > >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding > > >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian > > >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The > > >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two > > >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they > > >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments > > >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued > > >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and > > >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and > > >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the > > >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. > > >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly > > >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, > > >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why > > >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and > > >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating > > >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more > > >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing > > >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to > > >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming > > >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently > > >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be > > >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both > > >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India > > >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with > > >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in > > >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for > > >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole > > >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate > > >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai > > >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the > > >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an > > >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes > > >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and > > >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people > > >>>> terror. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of > > >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and > > >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning > > >>>> only when they are translated into action and > > >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without > > >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in > > >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the > > >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to > > >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance > > >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves > > >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass > > >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must > > >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not > > >>>> already happened. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to > > >>>> immediately take the following steps: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each > > >>>> other; > > >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all > > >>>> shades in both countries; > > >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of > > >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts > > >>>> between the two countries; > > >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between > > >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We > > >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and > > >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and > > >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu > > >>>> is in the pipeline. > > >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of > > >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and > > >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at > > >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary > > >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free > > >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the > > >>>> peoples of both countries; > > >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First > > >>>> Use of atomic weapons; > > >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia > > >>>> nuclear-free; > > >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end > > >>>> to militarisation. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Signatories: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Pakistan > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights > > >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of > > >>>> Pakistan > > >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for > > >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi > > >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental > > >>>> University , Karachi > > >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace > > >>>> Coalition, Islamabad > > >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, > > >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association > > >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan > > >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi > > >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , > > >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD > > >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan > > >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh > > >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan > > >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi > > >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh > > >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad > > >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre > > >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University > > >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National > > >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas > > >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia > > >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore > > >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, > > >>>> Karachi > > >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi > > >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular > > >>>> Studies, Lahore > > >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi > > >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh > > >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, > > >>>> Hyderabad > > >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi > > >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi > > >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , > > >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation > > >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress > > >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi > > >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore > > >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi > > >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food > > >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi > > >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi > > >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor > > >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal > > >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, > > >>>> Multan > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> India > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High > > >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi > > >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former > > >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi > > >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai > > >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi > > >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune > > >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra > > >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai > > >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai > > >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi > > >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai > > >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai > > >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi > > >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai > > >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University > > >>>> of Mumbai > > >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai > > >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai > > >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi > > >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai > > >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited > > >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern > > >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , > > >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar > > >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai > > >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > > >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > > >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai > > >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai > > >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers > > >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai > > >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai > > >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD > > >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad > > >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi > > >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai > > >>>> _________________________________________ > > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List archive: > > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Rashneek Kher > > >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > > >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > >>> _________________________________________ > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List archive: > > > > > >> > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe > > > in > > > the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From shumonagoel at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 15:20:18 2008 From: shumonagoel at gmail.com (Shumona Goel) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:20:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <6353c690812020143q16383f17tf08a1d1c6d4bdd65@mail.gmail.com> References: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <43bd75950812020135o597e9fb1yb7ea2bc580f60114@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812020143q16383f17tf08a1d1c6d4bdd65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43bd75950812020150w372d48b6r11bacff3d9409451@mail.gmail.com> I'm sorry for mistaking Mr. for Ms. Please read Biju Mathew's article when you have time. On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Shumona, > > How did you come to this conclusion of 'Ms. Kaul' ? Anyways, he is > Kshmendra > Kaul, as I can see. > > Secondly, lets not close our eyes to reality, truth; though it does indeed > pain to hear out these strong and hard facts put out in detail by Mr. > Kshmendra Kaul. > > We've certainly seen enough violence, but we'll continue to if we don't > raise our voice together against it, and end this menace, once and for all > times to come. Lets not again tolerate this bull-shit and forgive them.. > > Thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On 12/2/08, Shumona Goel wrote: > > > > Dear Ms. Kaul, > > > > Your emails are full of hatred and violence. We have seen enough > violence > > -- it is upsetting to read your emails, we are upset enough. Where do > you > > live? Certainly not in Bombay. > > > > Please read this: > > > > > > As the smoke lifts from Mumbai, skepticism must prevail over those > > conjectures which support the official state narrative. It is crucial to > > increase the pressure for transparency and accountability at this moment > to > > ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post-9/11 USA. > > > > By Biju Mathew > > > > This piece originally appeared in Samar 31, published online December > 1st, > > 2008. > > The deaths continue even as I write this. The death toll stands at 195. > And > > of the several hundred injured some may not survive. It is now official. > > The > > siege is over. The last of the gunmen inside the Taj Hotel has been shot > > dead. The Oberoi/Trident hotel was cleared earlier today and the Nariman > > House Jewish Center at the corner of Third Pasta Lane on the Colaba > > Causeway > > was stormed close to 24 hours ago. The other targets - the Leopold Cafe > (a > > popular tourist hangout), the CST railway terminus (also called the > > Victoria > > Terminus), the Metro Cinema, the Cama Hospital, all seem to be targets > the > > gunmen attacked as they zoned in on the hotels and Nariman House. In the > > end > > this has become a story of two sets of men with guns. > > The human story of the innocents who died, the hotel staff who kept their > > cool and moved guests around the hotel through the service entryways and > > exits, those who helped each other escape, will not really make it to the > > headlines. The maintenance worker at the Oberoi who shielded guests and > > took > > the bullets in his stomach will remain unsung. The hospital orderlies who > > ran in and out with stretchers carrying the wounded - each time not > knowing > > if they will make it back themselves to the ambulance, will not be noted. > > The several trainee chefs at the Taj who fell to bullets even as other > > kitchen workers escorted guests away from the firing and hid them inside > a > > private clubroom will not be written up in the book of heroes. The young > > waiter at Leopold who was to leave to work in a Cape Town restaurant will > > soon be forgotten. The two young men who dragged an Australian tourist > shot > > in the leg away from the Leopold entrance and carried her to a taxi will > > not > > even identify themselves so that she can thank them. These stories, in as > > much as they are told, will remain on the lips of only the workers, the > > guests and the tourists who helped each other. The officials will try and > > produce a clean story to tell the world. And we know the clean story is > > untrue. > > The official story that has already begun to emerge is one that may have > > some facts embedded in it. But we must remember that between every two > > facts > > is a lot of conjecture. The conjectures that unite the few facts (16 > > gunmen, > > AK47s, grenades, passports of multiple nationalities, boats on which at > > least some of them arrived, a dead Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant > > Karkare, who was heading the investigation against the Hindu Right wings' > > terror campaign, the gunmen trying to identify British and American > > citizens) makes the story. The story then is as much a product of the > > conjecture as it is of the facts. And there are certain stories that we > are > > already oriented towards. The conjectures that create that story - the > > story > > we are already prepared for - is the one the State will dole out for our > > consumption. Already the conjectures that will serve the State, are out > > there in great profusion. > > Several reporters have noted that the gunmen were clean-shaven, dressed > in > > jeans and T-shirts. The silent conjecture is that they were expecting and > > were surprised by the fact that these men did not have beards and did not > > sport the Muslim prayer cap. Every newspaper worth its salt - the Times > of > > India, the Jerusalem Post, the Independent from the UK, among scores of > > others - have already run commentary on the unsecured coastline of India. > > The conjectural subtext is that securing the coastline is possible and if > > India had done so, this attack would have been prevented. > > There is also a quick labeling going on -- India's 9/11. The subtext is > > that > > India could and should act as the US did after 9/11 - decisively and with > > great aggression. There is also the subtext that the Indian State is soft > > on > > terror that adds to the US-tough-on-terror contrast. Sadanand Dhume, > > writing > > in the Wall Street Journal, has castigated the Indian government for > > withdrawing the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) and for preventing > > states > > like Gujarat from passing their own version of the draconian > > worse-than-Patriot Act legislations. Neither Mr. Dhume, nor the several > > reporters who will now write stories about how the POTA repeal represents > > the Indian State's soft attitude towards terror will ever feel the need > to > > explain how POTA could have prevented this attack. > > The dead are on the floor. The vultures are moving in. The conjecture > will > > try to unite the country into a series of unexamined positions. That POTA > > must be recalled. That States must be allowed to pass even more draconian > > laws. That Hindu terror is not a big issue and must be forgotten for now > - > > especially now that we may not find an honest policeman or woman to head > > the > > ATS. That the defense budget must go up. That the coastline must be > > secured. > > None of the well educated masters of the media will write that the 7000 > odd > > kilometer coastline cannot be protected - that all it will translate to > is > > billions in contracts for all and sundry including Israeli and American > > consultants. Nobody will write that a hundred POTAs will not prevent a > > terror attack like this one; that Guantanamo Bay has not yielded a single > > break through. Nobody will write that higher defense budgets have been > more > > often correlated with insecure and militarized lives for ordinary > citizens. > > Nobody will write that almost without exception all of US post 9/111 > > policies have been disasters. Bin Laden is still around, I am told and so > > is > > the Al Qaeda. The number of fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, Hindus > and > > Jews have probably gone up over the last decade. So much for good policy. > > But the conjecture will go on. > > The foreign hand and its internal partner will be floated without ever > > naming anything precise. But the country will read it just as it is meant > > to > > be read - Pakistan and the Indian Muslim. Everything will rest on the > > supposed confession of the one gunman who has been captured. A Pakistani > > from Faridkot, I am told. Why should we believe it? Didn't the same > Indian > > State frame all the supposed accomplices in the Parliament attack case? > > Didn't the same Indian State claim that the assassins of Chattisinghpura > > were from across the border until that story fell apart? And more > recently, > > didn't the same Indian State finally agree that all the accused in the > > Mecca > > Masjid bombings were actually innocent? And even if Mr. Assassin > supposedly > > from Faridkot did say what he did say - why should we believe him? Why is > > it > > so difficult to believe that he has his lines ready and scripted? If he > was > > willing to die for whatever cause he murdered for, then can he not lie? > Oh > > the lie detector test - that completely discredited science that every > > militarized State trots out. And the media love the lie detector test > > because it is the best scientific garb you can give to conjecture. > > I certainly don't know the truth. But I do know that there is more than > > enough reason for skepticism. The problem is that we need a new theory of > > the State. We need to re-understand the State. > > There is such unanimity when it comes to analyzing the Pakistani State - > > that the ISI, and if not all of the ISI, at least a segment of it, is a > > rogue element Furthermore, that its bosses may not be sitting in > Islamabad, > > but perhaps elsewhere in the country or even abroad. If we can accept > that > > about the Pakistani State, why is it so difficult to accept it about the > > Indian State? We all know that Colin Powell was a kind of a patsy - a > fall > > guy, who trotted out some lies on behalf of a segment of the > > neo-conservative movement firmly entrenched within the American State > > (which > > Obama will not touch). We also know that if the ISI has a rogue element > in > > it, it was in good part created by the CIA. Then why do we think that the > > same guys couldn't render another State - such as the US - itself hollow > > from the inside. > > The contemporary State is a different being. For every story of > > money-corruption you hear, there could just as well be one of > > political-corruption. Every vested interest who locates himself inside > the > > State apparatus is not just a vested interest going after money but could > > just as well be securing the space for creating a certain politics. The > RSS > > has a long history of trying to take over the bureaucracy, doesn't it? So > > do > > the neo-cons and so do the jamaatis. Then why do we believe in a theory > of > > the State that is unified and with liberal goals? > > The history of the liberal State and its relationship with capitalism of > > all > > types is a simple one. The longer that relationship persists the more > > corrupt and hollow the liberal State gets, leaving the space open for > > political ideologies to occupy its very insides. The logic for this is > > inherent in the very system. If profit is above all, then given the power > > the State has, it must be bought. Cheney is no different from Shivraj > > Patil, > > and Ambani is no different from Halliburton. They are both part of the > > story > > of hollowing the State out. And once the hollowing process begins, every > > ideological force can find its way in, as long as it has resources. The > > archetypal bourgeois liberal State is over. It never really existed, but > > what we have at the end of four decades of neo-liberalism bears no > > resemblance to the ideal formulation whatsoever. What we have instead is > a > > series of hollowed out States with their nooks and crannies, their > > departments and offices populated with specific neo-conservative > > ideological > > interests. The US has its variant. India has its. And Israel its very > own. > > It is incapable of delivering the truth, and not just the truth, it is > only > > capable of producing lies. > > If this story of skepticism makes sense then we have only one choice. To > > understand that it is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency > at > > this moment, to be relentless in our demand for openness and detail, in > our > > call to ensure that no investigation or inquiry that was in place be > halted > > and that every one of these be subjected to public scrutiny. It is our > > responsibility to reject the discourse of secrecy based on security and > > demand specific standards of transparency. What we should demand is that > > every senior minister and every senior intelligence officer be examined > and > > the records be made available to the public. What we must demand is that > an > > officer of impeccable record be found to replace Hemant Karkare. What we > > must demand is that we get explanations of how a POTA clone would have > > stopped this crime. What we must ask is how POTA or the Patriot Act could > > have ever helped prevent terror? What we must do is support the Karkare > > family in their demand for a full investigation of his death in the > company > > of the encounter specialist- Salaskar. What we must have is an open > debate > > on every single case of terror over the last decade in India. > > When I am in Bombay, I always stay at a friend's on Third Pasta Lane. > Each > > afternoon I would walk out and see the Nariman House. I have wondered > what > > the decrepit building was. I have always contrasted the drabness of the > > building with the colorful sign on the next building that announces > Colaba > > Sweet House. The next time I won't wonder. I will know that it was one of > > the places where the drama that inaugurated India's renewed march towards > > fascism unfolded. Unless we act. Unless we act with speed and > determination > > demanding transparency and accountability and a careful rewriting of the > > story of terror in India. Only a renewed movement can ensure that India > > doesn't slide into the same state as post 9/11 USA. > > Biju Mathew is a member of the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate and the > > Coalition Against Genocide and is a co-founder of the New York Taxi > Worker > > Alliance. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Naeem > > > > > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it > > > unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the > > realities > > > in Pakistan. > > > > > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > > > > > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming > > > majority of Pakistanis" > > > > > > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. > Ignoring > > > that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to > > go > > > unchallenged. > > > > > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed > and > > > well-reasoned evaluations. > > > > > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or > > > completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The > > > 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > > > (violent) expression. > > > > > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or > > "In > > > the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it > > > together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' > that > > > has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India". > > > > > > To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the > > > years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone > Else" > > > including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > > > > > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure > extend > > > themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate > > > Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris". > > > > > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own > > > convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards > > > Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate > Shias", > > > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate > > > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs". > > > > > > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of > > > expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements. > > > > > > What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the > > > "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for > > roti-kapra-makaan". > > > But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs > are > > > common for all humans. > > > > > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds > > and > > > psyches that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus > sought > > for > > > "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study > Pakistan > > to > > > understand and realise that. > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen > wrote: > > > > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > > > Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net > > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs > > > in the > > > veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." > > > > > > I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for > > > roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. > > > Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing > > > vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. > > > > > > And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to > > > hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a > > > million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). > > > But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak > > > for the majority. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul < > kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Naeem > > > > > > > > Here is a thought for everyone > > > > > > > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed > > would > > > > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > > > > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > > > > > > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even > > > suggest > > > > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been > > > timed > > > > to (to quote): > > > > > > > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the > > > two countries concluded > > > > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > > > > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land > > routes > > > for > > > > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the > visa > > > > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of > prisoners > > > and > > > > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence > that > > on > > > > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian > > > capital > > > > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > > > > """"""" > > > > > > > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have > > taken > > > > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking > > > place > > > > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > > > > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of > > > Pakistan > > > > dismisses any such notion. > > > > > > > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the > > realities > > > of > > > > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > > > > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the > > > seminars and the > > > > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough > to > > > fool > > > > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others > > > into > > > > beleiving so. > > > > > > > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy > of > > > the > > > > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it > > would > > > > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things > right > > in > > > > their country. > > > > > > > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate > > > agenda" runs > > > > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > > > To: "taraprakash" > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > > > > > > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > > > > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome > a > > > > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > > > > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > > > > > > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > > > > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > > > > greeted by the same language? > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > > > > wrote: > > > >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has > > > several > > > >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by > BJP > > > >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew > > > venom > > > >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are > > > friends > > > >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. > > > >> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > > > > > > > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > > >> Cc: > > > >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM > > > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> All this is fine. > > > >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and > > > refuge > > > > to > > > >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > > > > other > > > >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process > > > of > > > >>> reconciliation can be started. > > > >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > > > > refute > > > >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > > > > terrorists > > > >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. > > > >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in > > > Kargil > > > > and > > > >>> did > > > >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and > > > not > > > >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the > > > composite > > > >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > > > > achieved > > > >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri > > > Pandit > > > > was > > > >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the > > > sacred > > > >>> shrine of Sharda.) > > > >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not > > > to > > > >>> Sharda > > > >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its > > > side > > > > and > > > >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible > > > evidence. > > > >>> > > > >>> Rashneek > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen > > > >>> > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press > > > >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 > > > >>>> 2008. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Mumbai bloodbath > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody > > > >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a > > > >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries > > > >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of > > > >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We > > > >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies > > > >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of > > > >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with > > > >>>> them. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating > > > >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of > > > >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved > > > >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits > > > >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish > > > >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this > > > >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it > > > >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the > > > >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries > > > >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced > > > >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace > > > >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes > > > >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, > > > >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal > > > >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint > > > >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a > > > >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign > > > >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding > > > >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian > > > >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The > > > >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two > > > >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they > > > >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments > > > >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued > > > >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and > > > >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and > > > >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the > > > >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. > > > >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly > > > >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, > > > >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why > > > >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and > > > >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating > > > >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more > > > >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing > > > >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to > > > >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming > > > >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently > > > >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be > > > >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both > > > >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India > > > >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with > > > >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in > > > >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for > > > >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole > > > >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate > > > >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai > > > >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the > > > >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an > > > >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes > > > >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and > > > >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people > > > >>>> terror. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of > > > >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and > > > >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning > > > >>>> only when they are translated into action and > > > >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without > > > >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in > > > >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the > > > >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to > > > >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance > > > >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves > > > >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass > > > >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must > > > >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not > > > >>>> already happened. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to > > > >>>> immediately take the following steps: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each > > > >>>> other; > > > >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all > > > >>>> shades in both countries; > > > >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of > > > >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts > > > >>>> between the two countries; > > > >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between > > > >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We > > > >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and > > > >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and > > > >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu > > > >>>> is in the pipeline. > > > >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of > > > >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and > > > >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at > > > >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary > > > >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free > > > >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the > > > >>>> peoples of both countries; > > > >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First > > > >>>> Use of atomic weapons; > > > >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia > > > >>>> nuclear-free; > > > >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end > > > >>>> to militarisation. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Signatories: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Pakistan > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights > > > >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of > > > >>>> Pakistan > > > >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for > > > >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi > > > >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental > > > >>>> University , Karachi > > > >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace > > > >>>> Coalition, Islamabad > > > >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, > > > >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association > > > >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan > > > >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi > > > >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , > > > >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD > > > >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan > > > >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh > > > >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan > > > >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi > > > >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh > > > >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad > > > >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre > > > >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University > > > >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National > > > >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas > > > >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia > > > >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore > > > >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, > > > >>>> Karachi > > > >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi > > > >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular > > > >>>> Studies, Lahore > > > >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi > > > >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh > > > >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, > > > >>>> Hyderabad > > > >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi > > > >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi > > > >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , > > > >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation > > > >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress > > > >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi > > > >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore > > > >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi > > > >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food > > > >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi > > > >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi > > > >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor > > > >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal > > > >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, > > > >>>> Multan > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> India > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High > > > >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi > > > >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former > > > >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi > > > >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai > > > >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi > > > >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune > > > >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra > > > >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai > > > >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai > > > >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi > > > >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai > > > >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai > > > >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi > > > >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai > > > >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University > > > >>>> of Mumbai > > > >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai > > > >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai > > > >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi > > > >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai > > > >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited > > > >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern > > > >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , > > > >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar > > > >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai > > > >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > > > >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi > > > >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai > > > >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai > > > >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers > > > >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai > > > >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai > > > >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD > > > >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad > > > >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi > > > >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai > > > >>>> _________________________________________ > > > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >>>> To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >>>> List archive: > > > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Rashneek Kher > > > >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy > > > >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > >>> _________________________________________ > > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > > > >>> To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > >>> List archive: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe > > > > in > > > > the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India > Cell - +91-9873297834 > > Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 15:28:52 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:58:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <593495.73643.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra I am tempted to intervene in your description of how "hate" is promoted in Pakistan according to you. Have you ever visited Pakistan? Do you know any Pakistanis (or met them) personally from whom you got these vibes. I know I am falling into a clich'ed trap, but I wanted to let you know that almost all Indians who ever visited Pakistan or met people from there recently have talked about how warmly they were treated when they visited there as Indians. I (an Indian) myself spent about 5 months in Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad in 2005 (as part of a fellowship), and I did not meet a single person there who hated Indians or Hindus (at least they didn't say it to me, nor did their conversations revealed this hate you talk about). An average Pakistani knew and appreciated much more about India than any Indians would about Pakistan. Most of them looked up to India in terms of the progress it has made and they love Indian movies, music and every thing else. In fact the moment they got to know I was an Indian they would hug me warmly. When they found I was a Muslim, they were slightly disappointed - they were actually looking forward to meet a Hindu! When I was in Pakistan, there was a cricket match series. The Indian team visited Lahore and won a one-day match. The victory of India was celebrated by Pakistanis with firecrackers and sweets. In contrast, when the Pakistani team was about to win in Delhi (in the same series), the disappointed Delhiites threw stones into the pitch (at Kotla stadium). I can go on and on about this, but I am sure my descriptions would be utterly misunderstood in the present scenario. Having said the above, I will not claim that the fundamentalist elements and the terror-training doesn't exist in Pakistan. It is proven, and more than India, the Pakistani extremist have been destructive to their own country. They strike at will at places like Karachi and Islamabad killing hundreds of Muslims with no regret. So these are Muslims killing other Muslims. Yes there is hate-proganda about other sects and ideologies (as you listed), but I didn't find a single person affected by it. You must also realize that since the time of Musharraf, the top leadership is seriously concerned and working towards eliminating the blot of terror from Pakistan. Maybe the situation is so out of control and complex that it will take more time and effort. The powerful religio-political institutions built in both countries will take a lot of effort to break down. But in short, I do not agree with you that "Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis". Common Pakistanis are so curious to visit India and meet Indians. I am talking from personal experience, and would like to know if you have had any personal experiences yourself. In fact I would like if there are any "non-Muslims" on this list who have visited Pakistan or interacted with its citizens to share their experiences. Yousuf --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:47 PM > Dear Naeem >   > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If > you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not > familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. >   > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): >   > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" >   > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring > what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing the > dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged. >   > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds > well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.  >   > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the > totality or completeness of expression of the "Hate > Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche of > Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > (violent) expression. >   > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created > "For Muslims" or "In the name of Islam" > (take your pick), the institution that has held it together > since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the > 'ideology' that has held it together is not Islam > but "Hate for India". >   > To that "National Hate for India" they have > managed to add through the years "National Hate for > USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone > Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. >   > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with > Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves to the > mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate > Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate > Kashmiris". >   > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" > based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam and > not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and > Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate > Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate > Dargahs". >   > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and > degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes like > dislikes or disagreements. >   > What you say is true (and it is not much different in > India) that the "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis > are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are not > talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are > common for all humans. >   > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that > satisfies those minds and psyches  that are conditoned to > "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for > "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction > of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and realise > that. >   > Kshmendra > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 15:32:51 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:02:51 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BREAKING: High Court Ruling on CHT Party Registration Message-ID: BREAKING NEWS: Bangladesh High Court issued show cause on Election Commission to explain why denial of registration to Pahari/Jumma political parties representing indigenous/adivasi people Chittagong Hill Tracts (UPDF+PCJSS) should not be deemed illegal. The judgment came in response to writ filed on behalf of UPDF by Advocates Idrisur Rahman & Protikar Chakma. Thanks to all activists, journalists & lawyers who supported this issue. More here: http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/02/cht-missing-pahari-vote/ From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Dec 2 15:52:10 2008 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:52:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `When Clientelism Influences More than Voter Turnout'; talk by Mary Breeding; CSDS, Dec 10 Message-ID: Wednesday, 10th December, 2008 Mary E. Breeding will speak on `When Clientelism Influences More than Voter Turnout: The Representational Effects of Clientelism in Bangalore Elections' at 2:30 PM in the Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054 Do material inducements supplied by political parties influence citizens' ideological positions in electoral competitions? Throughout the developing world today there are many accounts of clientelism in which politicians provide constituents—often poor citizens— with material inducements and access to benefits to gain political support. Mary Breeding's research asks how clientelism influences citizen's ideological positions relative to political parties supplying clientelist benefits. When the distribution of material benefits systematically influences citizen's ideology in electoral competitions, then benefits may have representational effects as well as the most analysed effect—getting people to vote. Using original public opinion data collected from surveys of 1664 households and 40 political leaders during one year of field research in Bangalore, India, Breeding assesses the influence of clientelism on citizens' ideological positions relative to the ideological positions of parties supplying benefits. Mary E. Breeding is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University. She received her Ph.D. in Political Science from the School of Public Affairs at American University in May 2008. She has also been a Visiting Scholar at the Institute for Social and Economic Change, Bangalore in 2005 and 2006-07. Her research interests include: clientelism, political representation, South Asia and international migration. From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Dec 2 15:54:38 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:54:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How TV news stars won war References: Message-ID: An interesting text from Suparna Sharma that was forwarded to me recently. > > How TV news stars won war > > By Suparna Sharma > > Asian Age, New Delhi > > Dec. 1: India's best-known television journalists appear to have > finally beaten Ekta Kapoor in the battle for TRPs. In six days flat. > The all-out war witnessed editors being paradropped, reporters lying > prostrate on the ground when not blaring into the cameras, and a > thousand "breaking stories" every day. > > Here's how the TRPs were garnered, shot by shot, starting around 10.30 > pm on Wednesday, November 26: > > Close in on the woman in tears — show her from every possible angle > and deliver a soul-wrenching commentary of what might be going through > her mind. > > Repeatedly flash shots of the adorable, crying child. Shove your mike > in his face. Oh! hasn't learnt to talk yet, not even Yiddish? Ask the > woman carrying the child how she rescued him from the carnage. Not > maudlin enough? Ask how many dead bodies she saw, get a blood question > in. Ask if she was scared, ask what she was thinking while bullets > were being sprayed around. > > Download all background scores of Ramsay and his brothers —especially > Khooni Shikanja, Vehshi Aatma and Shaitan Khopri — and play it every > time (that is at least 25 times a minute) pictures of the terrorists > are flashed. > > Catch a victim. Chase him. If it's a "her", then your channel's > reputation depends on getting an arousing account of how she felt — > when she saw the bodies, the terrorists, when she heard the screams. > Feelings. And get her to tell viewers what she was feeling when she > saw her best friend's body. > > Remember, all world-class reportage always begins with that one > question: "How are you feeling?" > > But it wasn't just on borrowed ideas that the news channels competed > for TRPs. The skills these news channels have been honing for a long > time came in handy too. In order of priority: > > Flash "exclusive" — even if the reporter is sending in reports from > outside the Taj Mahal Hotel, where at least 400 reporters are > stationed. And for viewers gone blind while watching blood-curdling > reportage, scream "exclusive" after every nine words. > > Forget that commandos are in the hotel trying to rescue innocent > people. Scream into the mike and tell the world that you, and only > you, have an "exclusive" bit of information from your source, now on > the hotel's 19th floor. > > Get your reporters to lie down, ducking killer bullets, even as the > cameraperson is standing next to him, recording histrionics. > > Ask anxious relatives if they think their friends and family members, > who are still inside, will be able to walk out alive. > > To finally clinch the TRP race, many top television editors were > paradropped and the story was turned around. It became all about them > and their trauma. Barkha Dutt took viewers on a tour of the Taj Mahal > Hotel, choked up and emotional, gesturing violently, shrugging, > crouching, hand on her aching heart. Rajdeep Sardesai rescued a > foreigner from other reporters, to ask, "How are you feeling?" Arnab > Goswami, of course, was kept in the studio. No one shouts "breaking > news" louder than him. > > When it was all over, after the commandos had gone home and the > funerals had run their course, some passers-by were collected, handed > candles, and in the glow of burning wax, victims were hugged, > preferably Muslims, and asked again, for a final boost to TRPs: "How > do you feel?" > > Many viewers, incidentally, feel that they have found the answer to > India's security problems. An email that is doing the rounds suggests: > "Change of guard in India's security agencies and Ministry of Home > Affairs: M.K. Narayanan to be replaced by Arnab Goswami as National > Security Adviser, Barkha Dutt as home secretary in place of Madhukar > Gupta, Praveen Swami the new IB Chief, Rajdeep Sardesai as special > secretary for internal security in place of M.L. Kumawat, and India TV > to replace DD!" Till that actually happens, light a candle for Indian > television's biggest reality show. > > -- From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 15:59:39 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 02:29:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <43bd75950812020135o597e9fb1yb7ea2bc580f60114@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <740536.92138.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shumona   Thank you for your feedback.   I can only surmise that you did not read the full thread of exchanges or half-read and half-presumed what was being conveyed by me.   I did read the Biju Mathew piece but unfortunately did not find anything significantly worthwhile in it.   I found interesting (and in keeping with the convoluted agenda that Biju seems to be promoting) the following words of Biju where he is refering to Nariman House:   """""" The next time I won't wonder. I will know that it was one of the places where the drama that inaugurated India's renewed march towards fascism unfolded. """""   Quite a contemptible piece of shit this Biju Mathew seems to be.   Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Shumona Goel wrote: From: Shumona Goel Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:05 PM Dear Ms. Kaul,   Your emails are full of hatred and violence.  We have seen enough violence -- it is upsetting to read your emails, we are upset enough.  Where do you live?  Certainly not in Bombay.   Please read this:    As the smoke lifts from Mumbai, skepticism must prevail over those conjectures which support the official state narrative. It is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency and accountability at this moment to ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post-9/11 USA. By Biju Mathew This piece originally appeared in Samar 31, published online December 1st, 2008. The deaths continue even as I write this. The death toll stands at 195. And of the several hundred injured some may not survive. It is now official. The siege is over. The last of the gunmen inside the Taj Hotel has been shot dead. The Oberoi/Trident hotel was cleared earlier today and the Nariman House Jewish Center at the corner of Third Pasta Lane on the Colaba Causeway was stormed close to 24 hours ago. The other targets - the Leopold Cafe (a popular tourist hangout), the CST railway terminus (also called the Victoria Terminus), the Metro Cinema, the Cama Hospital, all seem to be targets the gunmen attacked as they zoned in on the hotels and Nariman House. In the end this has become a story of two sets of men with guns. The human story of the innocents who died, the hotel staff who kept their cool and moved guests around the hotel through the service entryways and exits, those who helped each other escape, will not really make it to the headlines. The maintenance worker at the Oberoi who shielded guests and took the bullets in his stomach will remain unsung. The hospital orderlies who ran in and out with stretchers carrying the wounded - each time not knowing if they will make it back themselves to the ambulance, will not be noted. The several trainee chefs at the Taj who fell to bullets even as other kitchen workers escorted guests away from the firing and hid them inside a private clubroom will not be written up in the book of heroes. The young waiter at Leopold who was to leave to work in a Cape Town restaurant will soon be forgotten. The two young men who dragged an Australian tourist shot in the leg away from the Leopold entrance and carried her to a taxi will not even identify themselves so that she can thank them. These stories, in as much as they are told, will remain on the lips of only the workers, the guests and the tourists who helped each other. The officials will try and produce a clean story to tell the world. And we know the clean story is untrue. The official story that has already begun to emerge is one that may have some facts embedded in it. But we must remember that between every two facts is a lot of conjecture. The conjectures that unite the few facts (16 gunmen, AK47s, grenades, passports of multiple nationalities, boats on which at least some of them arrived, a dead Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) chief, Hemant Karkare, who was heading the investigation against the Hindu Right wings' terror campaign, the gunmen trying to identify British and American citizens) makes the story. The story then is as much a product of the conjecture as it is of the facts. And there are certain stories that we are already oriented towards. The conjectures that create that story - the story we are already prepared for - is the one the State will dole out for our consumption. Already the conjectures that will serve the State, are out there in great profusion. Several reporters have noted that the gunmen were clean-shaven, dressed in jeans and T-shirts. The silent conjecture is that they were expecting and were surprised by the fact that these men did not have beards and did not sport the Muslim prayer cap. Every newspaper worth its salt - the Times of India, the Jerusalem Post, the Independent from the UK, among scores of others - have already run commentary on the unsecured coastline of India. The conjectural subtext is that securing the coastline is possible and if India had done so, this attack would have been prevented. There is also a quick labeling going on -- India's 9/11. The subtext is that India could and should act as the US did after 9/11 - decisively and with great aggression. There is also the subtext that the Indian State is soft on terror that adds to the US-tough-on-terror contrast. Sadanand Dhume, writing in the Wall Street Journal, has castigated the Indian government for withdrawing the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) and for preventing states like Gujarat from passing their own version of the draconian worse-than-Patriot Act legislations. Neither Mr. Dhume, nor the several reporters who will now write stories about how the POTA repeal represents the Indian State's soft attitude towards terror will ever feel the need to explain how POTA could have prevented this attack. The dead are on the floor. The vultures are moving in. The conjecture will try to unite the country into a series of unexamined positions. That POTA must be recalled. That States must be allowed to pass even more draconian laws. That Hindu terror is not a big issue and must be forgotten for now - especially now that we may not find an honest policeman or woman to head the ATS. That the defense budget must go up. That the coastline must be secured. None of the well educated masters of the media will write that the 7000 odd kilometer coastline cannot be protected - that all it will translate to is billions in contracts for all and sundry including Israeli and American consultants. Nobody will write that a hundred POTAs will not prevent a terror attack like this one; that Guantanamo Bay has not yielded a single break through. Nobody will write that higher defense budgets have been more often correlated with insecure and militarized lives for ordinary citizens. Nobody will write that almost without exception all of US post 9/111 policies have been disasters. Bin Laden is still around, I am told and so is the Al Qaeda. The number of fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Jews have probably gone up over the last decade. So much for good policy. But the conjecture will go on. The foreign hand and its internal partner will be floated without ever naming anything precise. But the country will read it just as it is meant to be read - Pakistan and the Indian Muslim. Everything will rest on the supposed confession of the one gunman who has been captured. A Pakistani from Faridkot, I am told. Why should we believe it? Didn't the same Indian State frame all the supposed accomplices in the Parliament attack case? Didn't the same Indian State claim that the assassins of Chattisinghpura were from across the border until that story fell apart? And more recently, didn't the same Indian State finally agree that all the accused in the Mecca Masjid bombings were actually innocent? And even if Mr. Assassin supposedly from Faridkot did say what he did say - why should we believe him? Why is it so difficult to believe that he has his lines ready and scripted? If he was willing to die for whatever cause he murdered for, then can he not lie? Oh the lie detector test - that completely discredited science that every militarized State trots out. And the media love the lie detector test because it is the best scientific garb you can give to conjecture. I certainly don't know the truth. But I do know that there is more than enough reason for skepticism. The problem is that we need a new theory of the State. We need to re-understand the State. There is such unanimity when it comes to analyzing the Pakistani State - that the ISI, and if not all of the ISI, at least a segment of it, is a rogue element Furthermore, that its bosses may not be sitting in Islamabad, but perhaps elsewhere in the country or even abroad. If we can accept that about the Pakistani State, why is it so difficult to accept it about the Indian State? We all know that Colin Powell was a kind of a patsy - a fall guy, who trotted out some lies on behalf of a segment of the neo-conservative movement firmly entrenched within the American State (which Obama will not touch). We also know that if the ISI has a rogue element in it, it was in good part created by the CIA. Then why do we think that the same guys couldn't render another State - such as the US - itself hollow from the inside. The contemporary State is a different being. For every story of money-corruption you hear, there could just as well be one of political-corruption. Every vested interest who locates himself inside the State apparatus is not just a vested interest going after money but could just as well be securing the space for creating a certain politics. The RSS has a long history of trying to take over the bureaucracy, doesn't it? So do the neo-cons and so do the jamaatis. Then why do we believe in a theory of the State that is unified and with liberal goals? The history of the liberal State and its relationship with capitalism of all types is a simple one. The longer that relationship persists the more corrupt and hollow the liberal State gets, leaving the space open for political ideologies to occupy its very insides. The logic for this is inherent in the very system. If profit is above all, then given the power the State has, it must be bought. Cheney is no different from Shivraj Patil, and Ambani is no different from Halliburton. They are both part of the story of hollowing the State out. And once the hollowing process begins, every ideological force can find its way in, as long as it has resources. The archetypal bourgeois liberal State is over. It never really existed, but what we have at the end of four decades of neo-liberalism bears no resemblance to the ideal formulation whatsoever. What we have instead is a series of hollowed out States with their nooks and crannies, their departments and offices populated with specific neo-conservative ideological interests. The US has its variant. India has its. And Israel its very own. It is incapable of delivering the truth, and not just the truth, it is only capable of producing lies. If this story of skepticism makes sense then we have only one choice. To understand that it is crucial to increase the pressure for transparency at this moment, to be relentless in our demand for openness and detail, in our call to ensure that no investigation or inquiry that was in place be halted and that every one of these be subjected to public scrutiny. It is our responsibility to reject the discourse of secrecy based on security and demand specific standards of transparency. What we should demand is that every senior minister and every senior intelligence officer be examined and the records be made available to the public. What we must demand is that an officer of impeccable record be found to replace Hemant Karkare. What we must demand is that we get explanations of how a POTA clone would have stopped this crime. What we must ask is how POTA or the Patriot Act could have ever helped prevent terror? What we must do is support the Karkare family in their demand for a full investigation of his death in the company of the encounter specialist- Salaskar. What we must have is an open debate on every single case of terror over the last decade in India. When I am in Bombay, I always stay at a friend's on Third Pasta Lane. Each afternoon I would walk out and see the Nariman House. I have wondered what the decrepit building was. I have always contrasted the drabness of the building with the colorful sign on the next building that announces Colaba Sweet House. The next time I won't wonder. I will know that it was one of the places where the drama that inaugurated India's renewed march towards fascism unfolded. Unless we act. Unless we act with speed and determination demanding transparency and accountability and a careful rewriting of the story of terror in India. Only a renewed movement can ensure that India doesn't slide into the same state as post 9/11 USA. Biju Mathew is a member of the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate and the Coalition Against Genocide and is a co-founder of the New York Taxi Worker Alliance.   On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Naeem   I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan.   Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited):   " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis"   The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged.   I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.    The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial (violent) expression.   Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or "In the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' that has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India".   To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs.   The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris".   Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs".   We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements.   What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are common for all humans.   There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds and psyches  that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and realise that.   Kshmendra --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM Kshmendra It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak for the majority. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > Here is a thought for everyone > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even suggest > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been timed > to (to quote): > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > regime,  a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > """"""" > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking place > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of Pakistan > dismisses any such notion. > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities of > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the seminars and the > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to fool > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others into > beleiving so. > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of the > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in > their country. > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate agenda" runs > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > greeted by the same language? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > wrote: >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai >> >> >>> All this is fine. >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge > to >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > other >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >>> reconciliation can be started. >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > refute >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > terrorists >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil > and >>> did >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > achieved >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit > was >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >>> shrine of Sharda.) >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >>> Sharda >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side > and >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >>> >>> Rashneek >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>>> 2008. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mumbai bloodbath >>>> >>>> >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>>> them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>>> relaxation in the visa regime,  a soft and liberal >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>>> counterpart?  One thing looks crystal clear. The >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>>> terror. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>>> Pakistan and India that   issuing statements and >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>>> only when they are translated into action and >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>>> already happened. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> immediately take the following steps: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>  1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>>> other; >>>>  2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>>> shades in both countries; >>>>  3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>>> between the two countries; >>>>  4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>>> is in the pipeline. >>>>  5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>>> peoples of both countries; >>>>  6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>>> Use of atomic weapons; >>>>  7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>>> nuclear-free; >>>>  8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>>> to militarisation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Signatories: >>>> >>>> >>>> Pakistan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>  1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>>> Pakistan >>>>  2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>>>  3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>>> University , Karachi >>>>  4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>>> Coalition, Islamabad >>>>  5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>>>  6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>>>  7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>>>  8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>>>  9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>>>  10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>>>  11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>>>  12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>>>  13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>>>  14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>>> Karachi >>>>  15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>>>  16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>>> Studies, Lahore >>>>  17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>>>  18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>>> Hyderabad >>>>  19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>>>  20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>>>  21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>>>  22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>>>  23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>>>  24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>>>  25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>>>  26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>>>  27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>>>  28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>>> Multan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> India >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>  1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>>>  2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>>>  3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>>>  4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>>>  5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>>>  6.  Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>>>  7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>>>  8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>>>  9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>>>  10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>>>  11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>>  12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>>>  13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>>>  14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>>> of Mumbai >>>>  15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>>>  16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>>  17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>>>  18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>>>  19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>>>  20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>>>  21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>>>  22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>>  23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>>  24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>>  25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>>>  26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>>>  27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>>>  28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>>>  29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>>>  30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>>>  31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>>>  32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rashneek Kher >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: > >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From geetaseshu at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 17:01:14 2008 From: geetaseshu at gmail.com (geeta seshu) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:01:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] media coverage of Wednesday Mumbai attacks Message-ID: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm a print journalist based in Mumbai. I had a whole lot of problems too with television media coverage. Specifically: 1. India TV had background music in the midst of live coverage and began having commercial breaks too. India TV had an interview with a 'terrorist' and its anchors were trying to argue with him as to why he was killing all these people - even as the entire killing was on. While this is hugely debatable, what made it worse was that they announced a commercial break in the middle of the 'conversation' with the terrorist. I waited to see if it would resume but it never did and I learnt later that the government leaned on the channel. 2. CNN-IBN was high octave and frenzied, save its young reporter (I think her name was Toral). I was told its head, Rajdeep Sardesai, even dragged a Taj chef away from another channel for an interview while he was being interviewed! It was also very jingoistic - but that was the general trend of all the channels... 3. TV media,whether English or Hindi, concentrated on celebrities - we had Shobha De or Simi Garewal in the english channels and Sanjay Dutt or some such film star in the hindi channels...these are hardly the opinion-makers of Mumbai. yet, they were given undue importance and their views aired for a long time. 4.Times Now (which otherwise did a great job thanks to that reporter at Taj _Mahrook), went on and on that a war was on! Was that wise? An attack which is confined to one part of the city - and i can vouch for the fact that in Bandra, after the first day when people realised that no other terroristst were at large and they were confined to the south mumbai area, it was business almost as usual! 5. What happened to the blasts at Vile Parle and Dockyard Road? How did they happen? Who were behind them....we are still clueless. 6. What is the involvement of D company...how much of his local network was utilised for this operation? Why is the media silent on this or even on his links with Sharad Pawar? 7. When Modi came to the Taj site, we saw this ridiculous image of him shooing aside some BJP chap who came to greet him, as he was blocking the television cameras...even priyanka kakodkar of NDTV had to crouch so as to stay out of the camera's view of Modi....there was no attempt to on the tv channels part to ay this was not an image worth focusing on - especially when the shooting was still on! He was utilising the media, and the media played along... Apart from the media coverage, I also have to add that the general jingoism everywhere is hugely disturbing - RR Patil raises a slogan Bharat Mata Ki Jai and today, that's become the general slogan of all the citizens groups that are going around lighting candles everyday. Of course, the college students who organised the march at Carter Road were obviously too young to know the divisive way that slogan was used in the freedom movement and even during the 1991-92 riots in Mumbai and were saying Jai Hind too ! Generally, all the people one speaks to feel under attack and feel something must be done...few are clear what needs to be done. So, when people voice things like youth must get compulsory military training for a year or wage war on Pakistan, no one gets a chance to counter it strongly enough. The NDTV Barkha Dutt show had Simi Garewal talking about Paki flags in slums near Four Seasons Hotel and now, DNA has a campaign called the 'Eyes and Ears' campaign (probably a take off from the Delhi police informers campaign)... So easy to see the right-wing rubbing their hands in glee and waiting for the harvest of blood and votes! Geeta From aliak77 at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 17:39:02 2008 From: aliak77 at gmail.com (Kath O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:09:02 +1100 Subject: [Reader-list] media coverage of Wednesday Mumbai attacks In-Reply-To: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> References: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <383607190812020409g4372fd59t5468c64632feea24@mail.gmail.com> the other scene that was repeated most of the morning on cnn-ibn was the drive by shooting. and the person next to the cameraman (journo?) moves the man with bleeding hand's arm to the side to get a clearer shot of it then the cameraman walks off to film something else. I hope someone helped him. I think I'd rather see interrupted footage of the cameraman dropping the camera to help stop his bleeding. I recorded some of the tv footage. the newsreaders seemed to be in shock too. at one stage all the woman could talk about was the 'landmark of mumbai' and all the artwork lost inside. let alone the people.. it was a difficult situation & the newsreaders are people too, but yes I think there were a few questionable methods used in the reporting. (seems to happen at most large events though) http://www.aliak.com/content/vlomo08-day27-filming-or-helping http://www.aliak.com/content/mumbai-people-advised-stay-indoors & during the night the site reporters mentioned people had been receiving SMS/txt messages with the licence plates of the cars that had been stolen by the terrorists & saying 2 had escaped in the vehicles. this was after the above scene, the licence plates were displayed in the on screen banner. not sure what happened to them? maybe they did the other incidents? or did they end up at nariman house :( 2008/12/2 geeta seshu : > Hi, > I'm a print journalist based in Mumbai. I had a whole lot of problems too > with television media coverage. Specifically: > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 18:25:59 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 04:55:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <593495.73643.qm@web51401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <761793.30891.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf   I will touch upon only some issues since Shumona Goel has already branded me a hate monger.   Yes I have visited Pakistan and not just once. Yes I know many Pakistanis personally and some of my dearest friends are Pakistanis.   My experience of personal interaction with Pakistanis is no different than yours. In my case this includes almost hedonistic wining, dining and partying with them.   Amongst my favourite poets are some from Pakistan like Faiz, Obaidullah Aleem, Parveen Shakir, Amjad Islam Amjad. Mehdi Hassan's singing provides food for not just my heart but the soul too.   Yes it is true that by all accounts without any exception, Indians who went to Pakistan for the cricket matches had nothing but glowing praise for the warmth and hospitality they received and the sporting nature of the Pakistani crowds.   Yes it is also true that we in India in comparison were most shoddy in reciprocating that warmth and hospitality when Pakistanis came to India for the cricket matches and our crowds were boorish in their behaviour.    Having said all of that, you would appreciate that relationships on a personal level have nothing to do with what country a person is from. Nor can they form the basis of making a macro level evaluation of the 'psyche' of a country.   The 'inner mind' transcends the behaviour of 'hail fellow well met' pleasant situations.   As an example, it would be foolish for anyone to believe that the warmth generated by Vajpayee and even someone like Advani during their visits to Pakistan is in any way a reflection of their "inner mind".   Yousuf, at one point in my life, I had the easy choice of nurturing for ever after a HATE for Islam and Pakistan. Instead I chose to study about and understand both. I will not go into details of 'how and where', but I continue to monitor Pakistan on an almost daily basis.   That is where my evaluations come from.   Kshmendra   PS. As an Indian, I desire a stable Pakistan with a vibrant democracy. That, in my opinion is what is best for India.      --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf wrote: From: Yousuf Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:28 PM Dear Kshmendra I am tempted to intervene in your description of how "hate" is promoted in Pakistan according to you. Have you ever visited Pakistan? Do you know any Pakistanis (or met them) personally from whom you got these vibes. I know I am falling into a clich'ed trap, but I wanted to let you know that almost all Indians who ever visited Pakistan or met people from there recently have talked about how warmly they were treated when they visited there as Indians. I (an Indian) myself spent about 5 months in Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad in 2005 (as part of a fellowship), and I did not meet a single person there who hated Indians or Hindus (at least they didn't say it to me, nor did their conversations revealed this hate you talk about). An average Pakistani knew and appreciated much more about India than any Indians would about Pakistan. Most of them looked up to India in terms of the progress it has made and they love Indian movies, music and every thing else. In fact the moment they got to know I was an Indian they would hug me warmly. When they found I was a Muslim, they were slightly disappointed - they were actually looking forward to meet a Hindu! When I was in Pakistan, there was a cricket match series. The Indian team visited Lahore and won a one-day match. The victory of India was celebrated by Pakistanis with firecrackers and sweets. In contrast, when the Pakistani team was about to win in Delhi (in the same series), the disappointed Delhiites threw stones into the pitch (at Kotla stadium). I can go on and on about this, but I am sure my descriptions would be utterly misunderstood in the present scenario. Having said the above, I will not claim that the fundamentalist elements and the terror-training doesn't exist in Pakistan. It is proven, and more than India, the Pakistani extremist have been destructive to their own country. They strike at will at places like Karachi and Islamabad killing hundreds of Muslims with no regret. So these are Muslims killing other Muslims. Yes there is hate-proganda about other sects and ideologies (as you listed), but I didn't find a single person affected by it. You must also realize that since the time of Musharraf, the top leadership is seriously concerned and working towards eliminating the blot of terror from Pakistan. Maybe the situation is so out of control and complex that it will take more time and effort. The powerful religio-political institutions built in both countries will take a lot of effort to break down. But in short, I do not agree with you that "Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis". Common Pakistanis are so curious to visit India and meet Indians. I am talking from personal experience, and would like to know if you have had any personal experiences yourself. In fact I would like if there are any "non-Muslims" on this list who have visited Pakistan or interacted with its citizens to share their experiences. Yousuf --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:47 PM > Dear Naeem >   > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If > you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not > familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. >   > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): >   > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" >   > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring > what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing the > dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged. >   > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds > well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.  >   > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the > totality or completeness of expression of the "Hate > Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche of > Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > (violent) expression. >   > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created > "For Muslims" or "In the name of Islam" > (take your pick), the institution that has held it together > since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the > 'ideology' that has held it together is not Islam > but "Hate for India". >   > To that "National Hate for India" they have > managed to add through the years "National Hate for > USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone > Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. >   > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with > Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves to the > mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate > Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate > Kashmiris". >   > Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" > based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam and > not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and > Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate > Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate > Dargahs". >   > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and > degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes like > dislikes or disagreements. >   > What you say is true (and it is not much different in > India) that the "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis > are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are not > talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are > common for all humans. >   > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that > satisfies those minds and psyches  that are conditoned to > "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for > "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction > of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and realise > that. >   > Kshmendra > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 18:48:31 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:48:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] media coverage of Wednesday Mumbai attacks In-Reply-To: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> References: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812020518p1c948231oa4938585db7255d8@mail.gmail.com> Its interesting to see how Simi Gerewal's words among other things, have tasted bitter to a few. Truth has been always hard to accept. Anyways. 'Times Now' by far did the best reporting of the entire terror attack. Not alone Mahrook. I'll begin with Arnab Goswami, who didn't mindlessly leave for the venue as was done by 'Senior Editors" of at least four English and Hindi front line channels. Times Now even had a brilliant panel for evening discussions. Mature Investigative and Live Journalism was as well displayed by Bhavtosh Singh and Arunodaya Mukherji crime reporters of Times Now and CNN-IBN respectively. Also, to add in this list Jitender Dikshit of Star News. A leading female journalist of much hyped 'pseudo-secular' channel tried her best to attract attention and lead way as the only so called mature and intelligent figure around, but she failed miserable, she was lost in the crowd of media. I salute the patience of these few mature journalists who undertook this mission with great zeal and enthusiasm. Journalism is all about that courage, honesty and right timing. Its surely easy to question. Though I still do be live that these are many other negative patterns to it. Leading Hindi Channel (TRP wise) like last time (Jammu Hostage crises) yet again interviewed terrorists live. By this they not only gave these crackpots space on media but as well committed blunder against security personnel's. Who really represents Mumbai ? Why are Simi Gerewal not an equal parts of this great city ? It is unfortunate to mark this dividing line. At this time we should be united. On the contrary, we see people "unfortunate people' who mistakenly became Indians, defending Pakistan and even these terrorists time and again on TV Channels and even sometimes streets. This forum is quite aware of such breed of people. 'Bharat Mata Ki Jai' is said in praise of this country and not against any religion. It has no communal overtones. Please don't start crafting things. We surely saw how people in thousands used this slogan to greet our brave jawans who destroyed aims of these bloody terrorists. Lets act mature atleast at this time when we have lost just so many people. If not your conscience, atleast the innocent face, and cries of 2-year-old Moshe orphaned in the attack on Nariman House where his Jewish parents Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and Rivka were killed from the bullets of terrorists, should keep a filter in your mind. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On 12/2/08, geeta seshu wrote: > > Hi, > I'm a print journalist based in Mumbai. I had a whole lot of problems too > with television media coverage. Specifically: > > 1. India TV had background music in the midst of live coverage and began > having commercial breaks too. India TV had an interview with a 'terrorist' > and its anchors were trying to argue with him as to why he was killing all > these people - even as the entire killing was on. While this is hugely > debatable, what made it worse was that they announced a commercial break in > the middle of the 'conversation' with the terrorist. I waited to see if it > would resume but it never did and I learnt later that the government leaned > on the channel. > > 2. CNN-IBN was high octave and frenzied, save its young reporter (I think > her name was Toral). I was told its head, Rajdeep Sardesai, even dragged a > Taj chef away from another channel for an interview while he was being > interviewed! It was also very jingoistic - but that was the general trend > of > all the channels... > > 3. TV media,whether English or Hindi, concentrated on celebrities - we had > Shobha De or Simi Garewal in the english channels and Sanjay Dutt or some > such film star in the hindi channels...these are hardly the opinion-makers > of Mumbai. yet, they were given undue importance and their views aired for > a > long time. > > 4.Times Now (which otherwise did a great job thanks to that reporter at Taj > _Mahrook), went on and on that a war was on! Was that wise? An attack which > is confined to one part of the city - and i can vouch for the fact that in > Bandra, after the first day when people realised that no other terroristst > were at large and they were confined to the south mumbai area, it was > business almost as usual! > > 5. What happened to the blasts at Vile Parle and Dockyard Road? How did > they > happen? Who were behind them....we are still clueless. > > 6. What is the involvement of D company...how much of his local network was > utilised for this operation? Why is the media silent on this or even on his > links with Sharad Pawar? > > 7. When Modi came to the Taj site, we saw this ridiculous image of him > shooing aside some BJP chap who came to greet him, as he was blocking the > television cameras...even priyanka kakodkar of NDTV had to crouch so as to > stay out of the camera's view of Modi....there was no attempt to on the tv > channels part to ay this was not an image worth focusing on - especially > when the shooting was still on! He was utilising the media, and the media > played along... > > Apart from the media coverage, I also have to add that the general jingoism > everywhere is hugely disturbing - RR Patil raises a slogan Bharat Mata Ki > Jai and today, that's become the general slogan of all the citizens groups > that are going around lighting candles everyday. > > Of course, the college students who organised the march at Carter Road were > obviously too young to know the divisive way that slogan was used in the > freedom movement and even during the 1991-92 riots in Mumbai and were > saying > Jai Hind too ! > > Generally, all the people one speaks to feel under attack and feel > something > must be done...few are clear what needs to be done. So, when people voice > things like youth must get compulsory military training for a year or wage > war on Pakistan, no one gets a chance to counter it strongly enough. > > The NDTV Barkha Dutt show had Simi Garewal talking about Paki flags in > slums > near Four Seasons Hotel and now, DNA has a campaign called the 'Eyes and > Ears' campaign (probably a take off from the Delhi police informers > campaign)... > > So easy to see the right-wing rubbing their hands in glee and waiting for > the harvest of blood and votes! > > Geeta > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 19:01:48 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:31:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <761793.30891.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <683938.55541.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra Thanks for your clarification, and I am happy to know that you do appreciate Pakistan and its citizens more than I thought. I was only reacting to the sentence "hate runs deep in the psyche of majority of Pakistanis" which sounded alarming. The governments and the public opinions are formed only by a handful of people in any country. And the act of a few people cannot be generalized to an entire community and masses. As for how the "inner mind" of anyone is hidden behind his/her facial expression; can't that be applied to people of any country or community? regards Yousuf --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:25 PM > Dear Yousuf >   > I will touch upon only some issues since Shumona Goel has > already branded me a hate monger. >   > Yes I have visited Pakistan and not just once. Yes I know > many Pakistanis personally and some of my dearest friends > are Pakistanis. >   > My experience of personal interaction with Pakistanis is > no different than yours. In my case this includes almost > hedonistic wining, dining and partying with them. >   > Amongst my favourite poets are some from Pakistan like > Faiz, Obaidullah Aleem, Parveen Shakir, Amjad Islam Amjad. > Mehdi Hassan's singing provides food for not just my > heart but the soul too. >   > Yes it is true that by all accounts without any exception, > Indians who went to Pakistan for the cricket matches had > nothing but glowing praise for the warmth and hospitality > they received and the sporting nature of the Pakistani > crowds. >   > Yes it is also true that we in India in comparison were > most shoddy in reciprocating that warmth and hospitality > when Pakistanis came to India for the cricket matches and > our crowds were boorish in their behaviour.  >   > Having said all of that, you would appreciate that > relationships on a personal level have nothing to do with > what country a person is from. Nor can they form the basis > of making a macro level evaluation of the 'psyche' > of a country. >   > The 'inner mind' transcends the behaviour of > 'hail fellow well met' pleasant situations. >   > As an example, it would be foolish for anyone to believe > that the warmth generated by Vajpayee and even someone > like Advani during their visits to Pakistan is in any way a > reflection of their "inner mind". >   > Yousuf, at one point in my life, I had the easy choice of > nurturing for ever after a HATE for Islam and Pakistan. > Instead I chose to study about and understand both. I will > not go into details of 'how and where', but I > continue to monitor Pakistan on an almost daily basis. >   > That is where my evaluations come from. >   > Kshmendra >   > PS. As an Indian, I desire a stable Pakistan with a vibrant > democracy. That, in my opinion is what is best for India. >   >    > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf > wrote: > > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement > on Mumbai > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:28 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > I am tempted to intervene in your description of how > "hate" is > promoted in Pakistan according to you. Have you ever > visited Pakistan? Do you > know any Pakistanis (or met them) personally from whom you > got these vibes. I > know I am falling into a clich'ed trap, but I wanted to > let you know that > almost all Indians who ever visited Pakistan or met people > from there recently > have talked about how warmly they were treated when they > visited there as > Indians. I (an Indian) myself spent about 5 months in > Lahore, Karachi and > Islamabad in 2005 (as part of a fellowship), and I did not > meet a single person > there who hated Indians or Hindus (at least they didn't > say it to me, nor > did their conversations revealed this hate you talk about). > An average Pakistani > knew and appreciated much more about India than any Indians > would about > Pakistan. Most of them looked up to India in terms of the > progress it has made > and they love Indian movies, music and every thing else. In > fact the moment they got to know I was an Indian they > would hug me warmly. > When they found I was a Muslim, they were slightly > disappointed - they were > actually looking forward to meet a Hindu! When I was in > Pakistan, there was a > cricket match series. The Indian team visited Lahore and > won a one-day match. > The victory of India was celebrated by Pakistanis with > firecrackers and sweets. > In contrast, when the Pakistani team was about to win in > Delhi (in the same > series), the disappointed Delhiites threw stones into the > pitch (at Kotla > stadium). I can go on and on about this, but I am sure my > descriptions would be > utterly misunderstood in the present scenario. > > Having said the above, I will not claim that the > fundamentalist elements and > the terror-training doesn't exist in Pakistan. It is > proven, and more than > India, the Pakistani extremist have been destructive to > their own country. They > strike at will at places like Karachi and Islamabad killing > hundreds of Muslims > with no regret. So these are Muslims killing other Muslims. > Yes there is > hate-proganda about other sects and ideologies (as you > listed), but I didn't > find a single person affected by it. You must also realize > that since the time > of Musharraf, the top leadership is seriously concerned and > working towards > eliminating the blot of terror from Pakistan. Maybe the > situation is so out of > control and complex that it will take more time and effort. > The powerful > religio-political institutions built in both countries will > take a lot of effort > to break down. But in short, I do not agree with you that > "Hate Agendas run > deep in the veins and psyche of the > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis". Common > Pakistanis are so curious to > visit India and meet Indians. I am talking from personal > experience, and would > like to know if you have had any personal experiences > yourself. In fact I would > like if there are any "non-Muslims" on this list > who have visited > Pakistan or interacted with its citizens to share their > experiences. > > Yousuf > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan > Statement on Mumbai > > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:47 PM > > Dear Naeem > >   > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the > statement. If > > you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not > > familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. > >   > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > >   > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche > of the > > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" > >   > > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in > ignoring > > what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing > the > > dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged. > >   > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds > > well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.  > >   > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is > not the > > totality or completeness of expression of the > "Hate > > Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche > of > > Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > > (violent) expression. > >   > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created > > "For Muslims" or "In the name of > Islam" > > (take your pick), the institution that has held it > together > > since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the > > 'ideology' that has held it together is not > Islam > > but "Hate for India". > >   > > To that "National Hate for India" they have > > managed to add through the years "National Hate > for > > USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone > > Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > >   > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with > > Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves > to the > > mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate > > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate > > Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate > > Kashmiris". > >   > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of > "Hate" > > based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam > and > > not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and > Barbers and > > Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, > "Hate > > Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", > "Hate > > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate > > Dargahs". > >   > > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and > > degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes > like > > dislikes or disagreements. > >   > > What you say is true (and it is not much different in > > India) that the "overwhelming majority of > Pakistanis > > are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are > not > > talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs > are > > common for all humans. > >   > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that > > satisfies those minds and psyches  that are > conditoned to > > "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for > > "liberating the soul" through the > 'destruction > > of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and > realise > > that. > >   > > Kshmendra > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 19:11:17 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:11:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lethal lapse by Praveen Swami Message-ID: <6353c690812020541h330cdab5se8aae67ab78d12f3@mail.gmail.com> * Lethal lapse * PRAVEEN SWAMI * Had India's strategic establishment heeded the warning signs, the Mumbai attack could, perhaps, have been averted. * IN October, the Lashkar-e-Taiba's supreme religious and political head, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, in a signal speech to top functionaries of the organisation, said: "The only language India understands is that of force, and that is the language it must be talked to in." If India's strategic establishment had been listening, all those people who made the mistake of being in the wrong places in Mumbai on November 26 would still be alive. If more carnage is to be prevented, it is imperative to correct the culture of strategic deafness that facilitated the murderous attacks. >From the testimony of the arrested *fidayeen,* Ajmal Amin Kasab, Maharashtra Police investigators have garnered their first insights into the role of the Lahore- and Karachi-based Lashkar commanders in organising the attacks. Both the State Police and the Indian intelligence services appear to be confident that they will succeed in demonstrating that the trigger of the Mumbai terror squad's guns were pulled by their commanders in Pakistan. But even as India debates what the authorship of the attacks will mean for India-Pakistan relations, commentators are scrambling to contrast India's responses to terror to those of the United States. Whereas the U.S. has succeeded in blocking successive attempts to execute attacks on its soil since the tragic events of September 11, 2001, the argument goes, India's failure has been dismal. Politicians have been quick to blame the intelligence services for failing to predict the Mumbai attack. However, available evidence suggests that despite credible intelligence that terrorists were planning attacks in Mumbai and elsewhere, India's political leadership failed to act. Back in 2002, Indian intelligence informants first began reporting that Lashkar operatives were being trained in marine commando techniques along the Mangla dam, which straddles the border between Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (POK) and the province of Punjab. It soon became clear that the Lashkar, which found it increasingly difficult to penetrate India's Line of Control defences, was hoping to open new routes across the Indian Ocean, routes that would give it easy access to key cities such as Mumbai. In 2006, Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil was disturbed when the covert services told him to make specific mention of the need to step up counter-terrorism defences. Among the intelligence that Patil based his speech on was the evolving story of Faisal Haroun, a top Lashkar operative who commanded the terror group's India-focussed operations out of Bangladesh. In September 2006, Haroun was briefly held by the Bangladeshi authorities before being deported, quietly. But a West European covert service obtained transcripts of his questioning by Bangladesh's Directorate-General of Field Intelligence, evidence that shook even the Home Minister. Haroun, it turned out, had been using a complex shipping network, with merchant ships and small fishing boats, to move explosives to Lashkar units operating in India. Among the end-users of these supplies was Ghulam Yazdani, a Hyderabad resident who commanded a series of attacks, including the assassination of the Godhra pogrom-complicit former Gujarat Home Minister, Haren Pandya, and the June 2005 bombing of the Delhi-Patna Shramjeevi Express. Investigators probing the Haroun story determined his network had helped land a massive consignment of explosives and assault rifles on the Maharashtra coast for an abortive 2006 Lashkar-led attempt to bomb Gujarat. INDIAN OCEAN BASE India's intelligence services determined that Haroun had been attempting to set up an Indian Ocean base for the Lashkar. Along with a Male-based Maldives resident, Ali Assham, Haroun had studied the prospect of using a deserted Indian Ocean island to build a Lashkar storehouse from where weapons and explosives could be moved to Kerala and then on to the rest of India. In 2007, when evidence emerged of heightened Islamist activity in the Maldives, including the bombing of tourists in Male's Sultan Park and the setting up of a Sharia-run mini-state on the Island of Himandhoo, the seriousness of the threat to India's western seaboard became even more evident. Last year, the Lashkar's maritime capabilities were underlined once again, when a group of eight *fidayeen* landed off Mumbai's coast. On that occasion, a superbly crafted intelligence operation allowed the landing to be tracked by Coast Guard ships. The police in Maharashtra and Jammu and Kashmir, acting on information provided by the Intelligence Bureau (I.B.), were able to arrest the *fidayeen*. However, it was clear the networks Haroun was able to build were up and running. On the basis of these warnings, New Delhi moved to step up coastal counter-infiltration measures. In its Annual Report for 2007-08, the Home Ministry detailed the measures put in place for "strengthening coastal security arrangements, to check infiltration". In liaison with the nine coastal States and Union Territories, it said, funds had been earmarked to set up "73 coastal police stations which will be equipped with 204 boats, 153 jeeps and 312 motorcycles for mobility on coast and in close coastal waters. The coastal police stations will also have a marine police with personnel trained in maritime activities". Precise figures are unavailable, but officials in three States told this correspondent that progress in realising the scheme had been painfully slow. Maharashtra and Gujarat both inaugurated over a dozen coastal police stations over the last year, but neither State set up a trained marine police. Fewer than a dozen new boats were made available to the two police forces; without sophisticated surveillance equipment fitted on board, their use for counter-infiltration work was at best rudimentary. And while the I.B. received sanction for hiring small numbers of personnel to man new coastal surveillance stations last year, it got neither boats nor observation equipment. Early this year, more intelligence became available that the Lashkar had Mumbai in its sights. Investigators probing a New Year's Eve attack on a Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) camp in Rampur found that the Lashkar unit responsible for the attack also had plans to hit the Bombay Stock Exchange (BSE) , the Gateway of India and the Oberoi hotel. Uttar Pradesh resident Fahim Ahmed Ansari was arrested in February along with two specially trained Pakistani nationals, Imran Shehzad from Bhimber in POK and Mohammad Farooq Bhatti from Gujranwala in Punjab. Ansari's interrogation records, which were accessed by *Frontline*, show he was recruited by the Lashkar when on a visit to Dubai in 2003. The owner of a small paper envelope manufacturing business and a one time activist of the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI), Ansair met top Lashkar commanders in Pakistan in 2007. He returned to India through Kathmandu late that year. Back in Mumbai, Ansari stayed at Sunlight Guest House from November 28 to December 10 before renting a room off Falkland Road. He then secured a driving licence under the alias Samir Sheikh and enrolled himself as a student at a computer institute near the BSE. All three BSE assault-team volunteers held Pakistani passports, which they presumably hoped would enable them to escape by catching flights through Nepal. Shehzad carried passport number EK5149331, issued on March 14, 2007, while Bhatti used passport number AW3177021, issued a day earlier. Ansari's Pakistani passport, BM 6809341, issued on November 1, 2007, bears the pseudonym Hammad Hassan. LAST-MINUTE ALERTS On the eve of the Mumbai attacks, warnings continued to flow in. In late September, I.B. informants issued warnings that the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel was on the list of a small set of high-profile targets selected by the Lashkar for a suicide-squad attack. The Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), too, on the basis of communications intelligence, learned that the Lashkar had carried out reconnaissance on targets in Mumbai's Wasanji Road, including the Leela Kempinski hotel. Finally, on November 18, the RAW intercepted a satellite phone conversation originating in the Indian Ocean from a ship bound for India's western coast. In the conversation, a still-unidentified Punjabi-speaking individual notified a contact in Lahore that his "cargo" would soon land in Mumbai. RAW communications experts determined that the Pakistani landline number was one sometimes used by a top Lashkar commander for operations directed against India, who is so far known only by the aliases "Muzammil" and "Abu Hurrera". Indian Coast Guard ships were scrambled towards the location of the ship. Luck favoured the Lashkar. Even as the *fidayeen* squad bound for Mumbai panicked at the heightened Indian naval presence in the area, an opportunity presented itself. On November 15, a Porbandar-registered fishing boat, Kuber, was blown off course by bad weather. From the account of Ajmal Amin Kasab, investigators have determined that the boat was hijacked on the night of November 18. Later, the 10 *fidayeen* on the Kuber are thought to have shot dead four of the five crew members. After finally landing in Mumbai, the *fidayeen* broke up into five groups and headed towards targets they had previously trained to locate on high-resolution satellite maps. Despite the mass of credible intelligence that was available, no system was put in place to guard against the attacks: Mumbai simply did not have the resources to do so. Less than a week before the attacks, additional security stationed in south Mumbai was withdrawn. Maharashtra – with at just 147 policemen for every 100,000 population or, expressed in another way, 49.9 policemen to guard every 100 square kilometres, falls well short of global norms – simply did not have the resources to keep men tied up guarding every potential target. Hotels and businesses, for their part, failed to enhance their own internal security systems. Neither the Trident hotel nor the Taj, for example, had access control systems or a system to deal with a terrorist attack or bombing. For weeks before the attacks, police sources told *Frontline*, Maharashtra Police officials met with top corporate security heads in an attempt to convince them of the need to invest in defending their facilities. Nothing was done. Even if police personnel had been stationed near the terrorist targets, it is improbable that they could have intervened effectively. Mumbai, unlike any Western city of scale, has neither a specially trained emergency response team nor a crisis-management centre with an established drill to deal with a terrorist assault. In this, it is not exceptional: no Indian city has any crisis-management protocols in place. "People contrast the post-9/11 successes of the U.S. with our failures," notes one Maharashtra Police officer, "but they should also be contrasting the billions spent by that country with the peanuts we have invested in our own security." "The whole system is premised on the assumption that our intelligence services will get a hundred per cent heads-up on the precise timing of a terrorist attack," one intelligence official says, "but nowhere in the world does this happen. Intelligence is only an aid to on-ground policing, not a substitute." India's strategic responses were no better. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his foreign policy advisers failed to read the signs that jehadist groups in Pakistan were sharpening their swords. EXISTENTIAL THREAT In a speech delivered on October 19 before an audience of key Lashkar leaders such as Maulana Amir Hamza, Qari Muhammad Yaqoob Sheikh and Muhammad Yahya Mujahid at the organisation's headquarters in Lahore, the Lashkar chief made it clear that he saw India as an existential threat. India, he claimed, was building dams in Jammu and Kashmir to choke Pakistan's water supplies and cripple its agriculture. Earlier, in a speech on October 6, Saeed claimed India had "made a deal with the United States to send 150,000 Indian troops to Afghanistan". He claimed India had agreed to support the U.S. in an existential war against Islam. Finally, in a sermon to a religious congregation at the Jamia Masjid al-Qudsia in Lahore at the end of October, Saeed proclaimed that there was an "ongoing war in the world between Islam and its enemies". He said that "crusaders of the East and West have united in a cohesive onslaught against Muslims". India has learned that not all terrorism stems from Pakistan: the country has faced attacks from Indian Islamists, Hindutva groups and ethnic-chauvinist organisations in the north-eastern States. Each form of hate has fed and legitimised the other. But this circle of hate has been driven, too, by organisations based in Pakistan, jehadist groups that have demonstrated that they, while being friends of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, are enemies of the people of Pakistan. In his recent address to the nation, Manmohan Singh warned that he intended to "raise the costs" for those waging a war against India. He could start by demanding that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari act against such groups and then consider what can be done, if need be, to compel him to do so. Link - http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20081219252501800.htm -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk Tue Dec 2 20:07:22 2008 From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk (A Khanna) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:37:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <683938.55541.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <683938.55541.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081202143722.s7j3bww9cc8ok0sk@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> >> Having said all of that, you would appreciate that >> relationships on a personal level have nothing to do with >> what country a person is from. Nor can they form the basis >> of making a macro level evaluation of the 'psyche' >> of a country. >> The 'inner mind' transcends the behaviour of >> 'hail fellow well met' pleasant situations. >> As an example, it would be foolish for anyone to believe >> that the warmth generated by Vajpayee and even someone >> like Advani during their visits to Pakistan is in any way a >> reflection of their "inner mind". interesting - how then can the 'psyche' of a country be appreciated? or can it? or is it a powerful myth that masks a complex diversity of positions in a political economy? what is this 'inner mind'? can the fiction of a personified nation-state, or country be ascribed a psyche? and to what effect? is it the pre-requisite for the justification of violence by one 'country' upon another? akshay -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 20:12:47 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:42:47 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai References: <151948.73815.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69CE0EDF94F047DC9AA729E9ED5FDE47@tara> Hi kshmendra and all. The hate against India, US, Britain and Israel is definitely there in many Pakistanis. Against India the hate has its ebbs and tides, because the state and the media controls the hate factor. This is not only true in Pakistan it is true for India also. The feelings against Pakistan are hundred times higher in India than they were a month back. You just need to compare the blog entries and listen to people on the streets to know this. The state and the media decide how much hate should be allowed to flourish. We should not blame the people for it. The media manufactures the public opinion. this has been referred to as hegemony or manufactured consent by scholars. You just needed to open any damn magazine in the US in early 90s and you would read at least one article about the Chinese brutalities on its people. When China opened its market for the West, the brutalities could hardly been seen in any papers. I think this is universal. So let us not blame the people, it is the media. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kshmendra Kaul To: Naeem Mohaiemen Cc: taraprakash ; reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 AM Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai Dear Naeem I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the statement. If you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" The 'danger' is not in what I said but in ignoring what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing the dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged. I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations. The 'violent minority' that you refer to is not the totality or completeness of expression of the "Hate Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche of Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial (violent) expression. Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created "For Muslims" or "In the name of Islam" (take your pick), the institution that has held it together since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the 'ideology' that has held it together is not Islam but "Hate for India". To that "National Hate for India" they have managed to add through the years "National Hate for USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves to the mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate Kashmiris". Let us not forget the packed pockets of "Hate" based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam and not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and Barbers and Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, "Hate Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", "Hate Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate Dargahs". We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes like dislikes or disagreements. What you say is true (and it is not much different in India) that the "overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are not talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs are common for all humans. There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that satisfies those minds and psyches that are conditoned to "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for "liberating the soul" through the 'destruction of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and realise that. Kshmendra --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: Re: Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "taraprakash" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 10:55 PM Kshmendra It's deeply unfair and dangerous to say " 'hate agenda' runs in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis." I think overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are struggling for roto-kapra-makaan and don't have time for fantasies of hate and death. Unfortunately it only takes twenty to forty believers in a mad killing vision to put a shadow of suspicion over populations of millions. And by the way I'm Bangladeshi, so I should have far more reasons to hate Pakistanis than you (how many Bengalis died in 1971? At least a million more than have ever died in India-Pakistan conflicts/wars). But I'm still not willing to let the violent minority pretend to speak for the majority. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > Here is a thought for everyone > > A Terror-Strike of the scale and complexity that has been witnessed would > require quite a bit of advance planning and in all probability it's > execution set in motion well in advance of D-Day. > > Isnt' it rather idiotic of the signatories to the Statement to even suggest > a linkage between the Terror-Strike and it's taking place having been timed > to (to quote): > > """"" ..... the day the Home Secretaries of the two countries concluded > their talks in Islamabad and announced several concrete steps to move > forward in the peace process, such as the opening of several land routes for > trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, relaxation in the visa > regime, a soft and liberal policy on the issue of release of prisoners and > joint efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a coincidence that on > this fateful day the Foreign Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital > holding very useful and productive talks with his Indian counterpart? > """"""" > > These idiots seem to suggest that the Terror-Strike would not have taken > place if the ongoing talks between the two countries were not taking place > amicably and moving towards "concrete steps to move forward in the > peace process". The past history of Terror-Strikes emanating out of Pakistan > dismisses any such notion. > > Some people on both sides of the border seem to think that the realities of > attitudes in both countries lie in the much touted "People to people > contact" and the accompanying "peace noises" in the seminars and the > (alcoholic or not) cocktail circuits. They are either foolish enough to fool > themselves into believing so or devious enough to try and fool others into > beleiving so. > > Rather than putting forward a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy of the > Terror-Strike and make such pompous statements of little value, it would > serve the Pakistanis well to look inwards and try and set things right in > their country. > > It would serve the Indians well to realise how deep the "hate agenda" runs > in the veins and psyche of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM > > Accha bhai, everyone is hurt, bewildered, mourning, shocked, and > finally angry. But can you not take even one minute pause to welcome a > Joint India-Pakistan Statement of Mourning/Support for Mumbai as a > positive development (even though it's miniscule)? > > Was there anything in the statement that denied Daud, that spewed > venom? Since there was not, why does this Statement also have to be > greeted by the same language? > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM, taraprakash > wrote: >> There may not be clear evidence of Daud but Pakistani media has several >> times covered the rallies addressed by those who were returned (by BJP >> government) in exchange for the hijacked plane in Kandhar. They spew venom >> against all the Qafirs which include the moderate Muslims who are friends >> with the qafirs or are not friends with the misguided Jihadis. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rashneek kher" > >> To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai >> >> >>> All this is fine. >>> Let Pakistan only admit that they gave/are giving shelter and refuge > to >>> Dawood(not handover him to India),have terrorist camps in POK and > other >>> parts of Pakistan.We have to first accept truth before the process of >>> reconciliation can be started. >>> Pakistan Govt may not be involved in this Mumbai thing but can it > refute >>> what Sheikh Rashid writes in his book on Taliban,that Kashmiri > terrorists >>> had camps run by ISI in Pakistan and Afgahnaistan. >>> Can they refute that they sent army regulars to be killed in Kargil > and >>> did >>> not even accept their dead bodies saying they are Kashmiris and not >>> Pakistanis.Tell me please,I may be ignorant but but have the composite >>> dialogue process or the opening of trade,routes or anything else > achieved >>> any thing close to peace.(Incidentally not even one Kashmiri Pandit > was >>> allowed into PoK despite thousands of applications to visit the sacred >>> shrine of Sharda.) >>> I wish there is lasting peace so that I can atleast go home if not to >>> Sharda >>> but for all that to happen,Pakistan must act on terrorists on its side > and >>> India should stop blaming Pakistan before they have credible evidence. >>> >>> Rashneek >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> This Joint Statement was released to the press >>>> simultaneously in Pakistan and India on November 30 >>>> 2008. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mumbai bloodbath >>>> >>>> >>>> We are deeply shocked and horrified at the bloody >>>> mayhem in Mumbai, which has claimed more than a >>>> hundred and ninty lives and caused grievous injuries >>>> to several hundred people, besides sending a wave of >>>> panic and terror across South Asia and beyond. We >>>> convey our profound feelings of sorrow and sympathies >>>> to the grieving families of the unfortunate victims of >>>> this heinous crime and express our solidarity with >>>> them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As usual, all sorts of speculations are circulating >>>> about the identity of the perpetrators of this act of >>>> barbarism. The truth about who are directly involved >>>> in this brutal incident and who could be the culprits >>>> behind the scene is yet to come out and we do not wish >>>> to indulge in any guesswork or blame game at this >>>> point. However, one is intrigued at its timing. Can it >>>> be termed a coincidence that it has happened on the >>>> day the Home Secretaries of the two countries >>>> concluded their talks in Islamabad and announced >>>> several concrete steps to move forward in the peace >>>> process, such as the opening of several land routes >>>> for trade – Kargil, Wagah-Attari, Khokhropar etc –, >>>> relaxation in the visa regime, a soft and liberal >>>> policy on the issue of release of prisoners and joint >>>> efforts to fight terrorism? Again, is it just a >>>> coincidence that on this fateful day the Foreign >>>> Minister of Pakistan was in the Indian capital holding >>>> very useful and productive talks with his Indian >>>> counterpart? One thing looks crystal clear. The >>>> enemies of peace and friendship between the two >>>> countries, whatever be the label under which they >>>> operate, are un-nerved by these healthy developments >>>> and are hell bent on torpedoing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are of the considered opinion that the continued >>>> absence of peace in South Asia - peace between and >>>> within states - particularly in relation to India and >>>> Pakistan , is one of the root causes of most of the >>>> miseries the people of the region are made to endure. >>>> It is the major reason why our abundantly >>>> resource-rich subcontinent is wallowing in poverty, >>>> unemployment, disease, and ignorance and why >>>> militarism, religious and sectarian violence and >>>> political, economic and social injustice are eating >>>> into the very vitals of our societies, even after more >>>> than six decades of independence from colonial rule. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At this moment of unmitigated tragedy, the first thing >>>> we call upon the Governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> do is to acknowledge the fact that the overwhelming >>>> majority of the people of India and Pakistan ardently >>>> desire peace and, therefore, the peace process must be >>>> pursued with redoubled speed and determination on both >>>> sides. The sooner the ruling establishments of India >>>> and Pakistan acknowledge this fact and push ahead with >>>> concrete steps towards lasting peace and harmony in >>>> the subcontinent, the better it will be not only for >>>> the people of our two countries but also for the whole >>>> of South Asia and the world. While the immediate >>>> responsibility for unmasking the culpritsof Mumbai >>>> and taking them to task surely rests with the >>>> Government of India, all of us in South Asia have an >>>> obligation to join hands and go into the root causes >>>> of why and how such forces of evil are motivated and >>>> emboldened to resort to such acts of anti-people >>>> terror. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is extremely important to remind the leaderships of >>>> Pakistan and India that issuing statements and >>>> signing agreements and declarations will have meaning >>>> only when they are translated into action and >>>> implemented honestly, in letter and spirit and without >>>> any further loss of time. It assumes added urgency in >>>> the prevailing conditions in South Asia , with the >>>> possibility that so many different forces prone to >>>> religious, sectarian and other forms of intolerance >>>> and violence may be looking for ways to arm themselves >>>> with more and more sophisticated weapons of mass >>>> murder and destruction. The bloodbath in Mumbai must >>>> open the eyes of our governments, if it has not >>>> already happened. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We urge upon the governments of India and Pakistan to >>>> immediately take the following steps: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Cessation of all hostile propaganda against each >>>> other; >>>> 2. Joint action to curb religious extremism of all >>>> shades in both countries; >>>> 3. Continue and intensify normalization of >>>> relations and peaceful resolution of all conflicts >>>> between the two countries; >>>> 4. Facilitation of trade and cooperation between >>>> the two countries and in all of South Asia . We >>>> welcome the fact that the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad and >>>> Poonch-Rawlakot borders have been opened for trade and >>>> that the opening of the road between Kargil and Skardu >>>> is in the pipeline. >>>> 5. Immediate abolition of the current practice of >>>> issuing city-specific and police reporting visa and >>>> issue country-valid visa without restrictions at >>>> arrival point, simultaneously initiating necessary >>>> steps to introduce as early as possible a visa-free >>>> travel regime, to encourage friendship between the >>>> peoples of both countries; >>>> 6. Declaration by India and Pakistan of No First >>>> Use of atomic weapons; >>>> 7. Concrete measures towards making South Asia >>>> nuclear-free; >>>> 8. Radical reduction in military spending and end >>>> to militarisation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Signatories: >>>> >>>> >>>> Pakistan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Mr. Iqbal Haider, Co-Chairman, Human Rights >>>> Commission Pakistan and former federal Minister of >>>> Pakistan >>>> 2. Dr. Tipu Sultan, President, Pakistan Doctors for >>>> Peace & Development, Karachi >>>> 3. Dr. Tariq Sohail, Dean, Jinnah Medical & Dental >>>> University , Karachi >>>> 4. Dr. A. H.. Nayyar, President, Pakistan Peace >>>> Coalition, Islamabad >>>> 5. Justice (Retd) Rasheed A. Razvi, President, >>>> Sindh High Court Bar Association >>>> 6. Mr. B.M.Kutty, Secretary General , Pakistan >>>> Peace Coalition, Karachi >>>> 7. Mr. Karamat Ali, Director, PILER, Karachi , >>>> Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 8. Mr. Fareed Awan, General Secretary , Pakistan >>>> Workers Confederation, Sindh >>>> 9. Mr. Muhammad Ali Shah, Chairman , Pakistan >>>> Fisherfolk Forum, Karachi >>>> 10. Mr. Zulfiqar Halepoto, Secretary, Sindh >>>> Democratic Front, Hyderabad >>>> 11. Professor Dr. Sarfraz Khan, Area Studies Centre >>>> ( Central Asia), Peshawar University >>>> 12. Syed Khadim Ali Shah, Former Member National >>>> Assembly, Mirpur Khas >>>> 13. Mr. Muhammad Tahseen, Director, South Asia >>>> Partnership (PAK), Lahore >>>> 14. Mrs. Saleha Athar, Network for Women's Rights, >>>> Karachi >>>> 15. Ms. Sheema Kermani, Tehreek-e-Niswan, Karachi >>>> 16. Ms. Saeeda Diep, President, Institute of Secular >>>> Studies, Lahore >>>> 17. Dr. Aly Ercelan, Pakistan Labour Trust, Karachi >>>> 18. Mr. Suleiman G. Abro, Director, Sindh >>>> Agricultural & Forestry Workers Organisation, >>>> Hyderabad >>>> 19. Mr. Sharafat Ali, PILER, Karachi >>>> 20. Mr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah, PILER, Karachi >>>> 21. Mr. Ayub Qureshi, Information Secretary , >>>> Pakistan Trade Union Federation >>>> 22. Ms. Sheen Farrukh, Director, Interpress >>>> Communication Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 23. Mr. Zafar Malik, PIPFPD, Lahore >>>> 24. Mr. Adam Malik, Action-Aid Pakistan , Karachi >>>> 25. Mr. Qamarul Hasan, International Union of Food >>>> Workers (IUF), Karachi >>>> 26. Prof. Muhammad Nauman, NED University , Karachi >>>> 27. Mr. Mirza Maqsood, General Secretary, Mazdoor >>>> Mahaz-e-Amal >>>> 28. Ms. Shaista Bukhari, Women Rights Association, >>>> Multan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> India >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Kuldip Nayar, journalist, former Indian High >>>> Commissioner, UK., Delhi >>>> 2. S P Shukla, retired Finance Secretary, former >>>> Member, Planning Commission, Delhi >>>> 3. PEACE MUMBAI network of 15 organisations, Mumbai >>>> 4. Seema Mustafa, Journalist, Delhi >>>> 5. Manisha Gupte, MASUM, Pune >>>> 6. Dr. Ramesh Awasthi, PUCL, Maharashtra >>>> 7. Jatin Desai, journalist, Mumbai >>>> 8. Prof. Ritu Dewan, University of Mumbai >>>> 9. Prabir Purkayashta, DSF, Delhi >>>> 10. Prof. Pushpa Bhave , Mumbai >>>> 11. Paromita Vohra, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 12. Achin Vanaik, CNDP, Delhi >>>> 13. Meena Menon, Focus on the Global South, Mumbai >>>> 14. Romar Correa Professor of Economics, University >>>> of Mumbai >>>> 15. Anjum Rajabally, film writer, Mumbai >>>> 16. Anand Patwardhan, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 17. Kamla Bhasin, SANGAT, Delhi >>>> 18. Dr. Padmini Swaminathan, MIDS, Chennai >>>> 19. Sumit Bali, CEO, Kotak Mahindra Prime Limited >>>> 20. Dr Walter Fernandes, Director, North Eastern >>>> Social Research Centre , Assam , >>>> 21. Rabia, Lahore Chitrkar >>>> 22. Rakesh Sharma, filmmaker, Mumbai >>>> 23. Prof. Kamal Mitra Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 24. Prof. Anuradha Chenoy, JNU, Delhi >>>> 25. P K Das, architect, Mumbai >>>> 26. Neera Adarkar, architect, Mumbai >>>> 27. Datta Iswalkar, Secretary, Textile Workers >>>> Action Committee, Mumbai >>>> 28. Madhusree Dutta, filmmaker, Majlis, Mumbai >>>> 29. Amrita Chhachhi, Founding member, PIPFPD >>>> 30. Mazher Hussain, COVA, Hyderabad >>>> 31. Prof. Manoranjan Mohanty, Delhi >>>> 32. Prof. M C Arunan, Mumbai >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rashneek Kher >>> Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy >>> http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com >>> http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 20:31:44 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:01:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <683938.55541.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <138257.8608.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf   What I meant by the "inner mind" was the 'attitudinal mind' embedded in the psyche through conditioning.   Would that apply to all countries and communities? Certainly to some extent in specfic scenarios that would vary for each and so would also vary the intensity of reactions aroused.   Jews hate Muslims. Muslims hate Jews. Brits hate the French but happily use French cosmetics/perfumes. Vegetarians have a revulsion towards eating meat but not neccessarily towards meat eaters. Many meat eaters cannot suffer even the thought of eating innards or snakes or dogs or odd looking things like crabs, shrimps, lobsters, squid. Others love eating them. That is the embedded attitudinal psyche.   It comes from being conditioned to feel/think/react in that manner either by simple non-instructed imitative behaviour or by consciously being taught/indoctrinated.    Brahmins for example were formally taught to detest Shudras. Colour and Race prejudice is also embedded attitudinal psyche.   The best part of this Mind-DNA is that it can be altered. Detoxified perhaps. Easily in some cases and with some difficulty in others. Some changes would take a generation reared in 'sterile non-indoctrination'.   Kshmendra   PS. I do not agree with your statement that "The governments and the public opinions are formed only by a handful of people in any country.". It varies from country to country. In Pakistan that we were talking about, it is much more complex than most other countries. What is also interesting about Pakistan is the changes since 1947 that have taken place in the Mind-DNA of the "National Psyche".  --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf wrote: From: Yousuf Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:01 PM Dear Kshmendra Thanks for your clarification, and I am happy to know that you do appreciate Pakistan and its citizens more than I thought. I was only reacting to the sentence "hate runs deep in the psyche of majority of Pakistanis" which sounded alarming. The governments and the public opinions are formed only by a handful of people in any country. And the act of a few people cannot be generalized to an entire community and masses. As for how the "inner mind" of anyone is hidden behind his/her facial expression; can't that be applied to people of any country or community? regards Yousuf --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:25 PM > Dear Yousuf >   > I will touch upon only some issues since Shumona Goel has > already branded me a hate monger. >   > Yes I have visited Pakistan and not just once. Yes I know > many Pakistanis personally and some of my dearest friends > are Pakistanis. >   > My experience of personal interaction with Pakistanis is > no different than yours. In my case this includes almost > hedonistic wining, dining and partying with them. >   > Amongst my favourite poets are some from Pakistan like > Faiz, Obaidullah Aleem, Parveen Shakir, Amjad Islam Amjad. > Mehdi Hassan's singing provides food for not just my > heart but the soul too. >   > Yes it is true that by all accounts without any exception, > Indians who went to Pakistan for the cricket matches had > nothing but glowing praise for the warmth and hospitality > they received and the sporting nature of the Pakistani > crowds. >   > Yes it is also true that we in India in comparison were > most shoddy in reciprocating that warmth and hospitality > when Pakistanis came to India for the cricket matches and > our crowds were boorish in their behaviour.  >   > Having said all of that, you would appreciate that > relationships on a personal level have nothing to do with > what country a person is from. Nor can they form the basis > of making a macro level evaluation of the 'psyche' > of a country. >   > The 'inner mind' transcends the behaviour of > 'hail fellow well met' pleasant situations. >   > As an example, it would be foolish for anyone to believe > that the warmth generated by Vajpayee and even someone > like Advani during their visits to Pakistan is in any way a > reflection of their "inner mind". >   > Yousuf, at one point in my life, I had the easy choice of > nurturing for ever after a HATE for Islam and Pakistan. > Instead I chose to study about and understand both. I will > not go into details of 'how and where', but I > continue to monitor Pakistan on an almost daily basis. >   > That is where my evaluations come from. >   > Kshmendra >   > PS. As an Indian, I desire a stable Pakistan with a vibrant > democracy. That, in my opinion is what is best for India. >   >    > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf > wrote: > > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement > on Mumbai > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:28 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > I am tempted to intervene in your description of how > "hate" is > promoted in Pakistan according to you. Have you ever > visited Pakistan? Do you > know any Pakistanis (or met them) personally from whom you > got these vibes. I > know I am falling into a clich'ed trap, but I wanted to > let you know that > almost all Indians who ever visited Pakistan or met people > from there recently > have talked about how warmly they were treated when they > visited there as > Indians. I (an Indian) myself spent about 5 months in > Lahore, Karachi and > Islamabad in 2005 (as part of a fellowship), and I did not > meet a single person > there who hated Indians or Hindus (at least they didn't > say it to me, nor > did their conversations revealed this hate you talk about). > An average Pakistani > knew and appreciated much more about India than any Indians > would about > Pakistan. Most of them looked up to India in terms of the > progress it has made > and they love Indian movies, music and every thing else. In > fact the moment they got to know I was an Indian they > would hug me warmly. > When they found I was a Muslim, they were slightly > disappointed - they were > actually looking forward to meet a Hindu! When I was in > Pakistan, there was a > cricket match series. The Indian team visited Lahore and > won a one-day match. > The victory of India was celebrated by Pakistanis with > firecrackers and sweets. > In contrast, when the Pakistani team was about to win in > Delhi (in the same > series), the disappointed Delhiites threw stones into the > pitch (at Kotla > stadium). I can go on and on about this, but I am sure my > descriptions would be > utterly misunderstood in the present scenario. > > Having said the above, I will not claim that the > fundamentalist elements and > the terror-training doesn't exist in Pakistan. It is > proven, and more than > India, the Pakistani extremist have been destructive to > their own country. They > strike at will at places like Karachi and Islamabad killing > hundreds of Muslims > with no regret. So these are Muslims killing other Muslims. > Yes there is > hate-proganda about other sects and ideologies (as you > listed), but I didn't > find a single person affected by it. You must also realize > that since the time > of Musharraf, the top leadership is seriously concerned and > working towards > eliminating the blot of terror from Pakistan. Maybe the > situation is so out of > control and complex that it will take more time and effort. > The powerful > religio-political institutions built in both countries will > take a lot of effort > to break down. But in short, I do not agree with you that > "Hate Agendas run > deep in the veins and psyche of the > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis". Common > Pakistanis are so curious to > visit India and meet Indians. I am talking from personal > experience, and would > like to know if you have had any personal experiences > yourself. In fact I would > like if there are any "non-Muslims" on this list > who have visited > Pakistan or interacted with its citizens to share their > experiences. > > Yousuf > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan > Statement on Mumbai > > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:47 PM > > Dear Naeem > >   > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the > statement. If > > you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are not > > familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. > >   > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > >   > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and psyche > of the > > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" > >   > > The 'danger' is not in what I said but in > ignoring > > what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to allowing > the > > dangers emanating from Pakistan to go unchallenged. > >   > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate clouds > > well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.  > >   > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to is > not the > > totality or completeness of expression of the > "Hate > > Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National Psyche > of > > Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such partial > > (violent) expression. > >   > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was created > > "For Muslims" or "In the name of > Islam" > > (take your pick), the institution that has held it > together > > since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the > > 'ideology' that has held it together is not > Islam > > but "Hate for India". > >   > > To that "National Hate for India" they have > > managed to add through the years "National Hate > for > > USA". In fact "National Hate for Everyone > > Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > >   > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with > > Pakistan's federated structure extend themselves > to the > > mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", "Hate > > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", "Hate > > Balochis", "Hate Pathans", "Hate > > Kashmiris". > >   > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of > "Hate" > > based on their own convoluted interpretation of Islam > and > > not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and > Barbers and > > Girls' Schools but also "Hate Shias", > > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, > "Hate > > Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", > "Hate > > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate > > Dargahs". > >   > > We are talking about HATE in it's most intense and > > degraded forms of expression and not milder attitudes > like > > dislikes or disagreements. > >   > > What you say is true (and it is not much different in > > India) that the "overwhelming majority of > Pakistanis > > are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But we are > not > > talking about the needs of the body here. Those needs > are > > common for all humans. > >   > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) that > > satisfies those minds and psyches  that are > conditoned to > > "Hate" or in some cases the menus sought for > > "liberating the soul" through the > 'destruction > > of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and > realise > > that. > >   > > Kshmendra > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 20:50:14 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:50:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Slighted, Kerala CM insults Major's dad Message-ID: <6353c690812020720p6a70d384n8403a82855a2ab3c@mail.gmail.com> Slighted, Kerala CM insults Major's dad ENS First Published : 02 Dec 2008 11:40:00 AM IST Link - http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=VS+should+quit+for+dog+remark&artid=yZHQ4xod6wc=&SectionID=Qz/kHVp9tEs=&MainSectionID=Qz/kHVp9tEs=&SEO=V+S+Achuthanandan,+Kerala+CM;+hostile+reception;+M&SectionName=UOaHCPTTmuP3XGzZRCAUTQ== THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: ''Had it not been the house of Major Sandeep, not even a dog would have visited them,'' said comrade V S Achuthanandan, Chief Minister of Kerala, when a correspondent of a national news channel sought his reaction to the hostile reception he and Home Minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan received at the residence of slain Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan in Bangalore on Sunday night. Sandeep's father Unnikrishnan had harshly criticised VS and other politicians and asked them not to visit his house or convey their condolence as the Kerala Government failed to pay tribute to Sandeep till a section of the media had pointed it out. But VS and Kodiyeri visited the house with the help of the Karnataka police only to irritate an already upset Unnikrishnan. The channel, which aired the story of VS's visit in its morning bulletins on Monday, sought a reaction from VS in the evening. ''There is no rule that the Karnataka and Kerala CMs should jointly visit the house of a slain soldier. We visited Sandeep's father, mother and other relatives because of our attachment towards Sandeep. The father of a martyr should have behaved more decently,'' VS told the channel about his bitter visit to Sandeep's house. Earlier, Unnikrishnan told the channel that he behaved so because he was upset over the political games played by the leaders over his son's death. ''These people are compelled to come here due to political pressure,'' he said. He admitted he was rude as he was distraught. Meanwhile, on Monday evening, CPM state secretary Pinarayi Vijayan said it is not fair to take political mileage out of the humiliation suffered by VS in Bangalore. ''Don't try to put the embarrassment suffered by Narendra Modi on the head of VS,'' Pinarayi said. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 20:54:30 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:54:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Military strike against Pak terror camps an option: India Message-ID: <6353c690812020724i52268726j99dcb4d4b752938c@mail.gmail.com> Will these words transform into some kind of action in near future. My 12 years neighbour Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam used to tell me, 'Dreams Transform Thoughts Into Action..". I firmly believe in this axiom. At this moment, I am just hoping against hope... *Military strike against Pak terror camps an option: India * NDTV Correspondent Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:42 PM (New Delhi) In an exclusive interview to NDTV External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has not ruled out the option of military strikes against terror camps in Pakistan. Mukherjee said that every country has the right to protect its territorial integrity and take appropriate action when necessary. He also said that it has become difficult to continue the peace process with Pakistan in this atmosphere. *NDTV:* Are we thinking about the military option at all? *External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee:* As and when it takes place, people will come to know, it's not publicized. *NDTV:* So, you are not ruling it out? *External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee:* I am not making any comment on the military option, what I am saying is that every sovereign country has the right to protect its territorial integrity and take appropriate action and when it feels necessary to take that appropriate action. *NDTV:*Has the peace process suffered a big setback? *External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee:* Yes it has vitiated the atmosphere. There was also the Kabul attack and now Mumbai attack; naturally the atmosphere is vitiated. While we have no intention of not carrying on with the peace process, but definitely when peoples' sentiments are affected and it creates an atmosphere not to carry on business as usual, it has some impact. These incidents and if these are not adequately addressed by the other side, create an atmosphere that's difficult to carry on normal business including the peace process. *India asks Pak to hand over fugitives* *PTI adds:* Sending a tough message, Mukherjee said India has demanded the handing over of LeT chief Hafiz Mohammad and other fugitives in Pakistan in the wake of Mumbai terror attacks and would await Islamabad's response. "Now, we have in our demarche asked (for) the arrest and handover of those persons who are settled in Pakistan and who are fugitives of Indian law," External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said on the sidelines of a function to inaugurate the India-Arab Forum. Pakistan's High Commissioner to India Shahid Malik was summoned by the Ministryof External Affairs yesterday and issued a demarche (protest note). "...there are lists of about 20 persons. (These) lists are sometimes altered and this exerciseis going on and we have renewed it in our demarche," Mukherjee said adding India "will await" Pakistan's response. India has handed over to Pakistan a list of 20 terrorists, including Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Mohammad and Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azhar besides Dawood Ibrahim, who are based in that country and are suspected to be behind terror attacks in India. Investigations into the three-day Mumbai terror strikes that left 183 dead have shown that the plan to carry out the attacks was hatched in Pakistan, suspectedly by Lashkar-e-Toiba and the perpetrators of the ghastly act came from Karachi by ships and boats . Asked about US President-elect Barack Obama's suggestion that India has a "right to protect" itself, Mukherjee said "what will be done, time will show and you will come to know." Islamabad has been in a denial mode but India says it has hard evidence to show Pakistani link. New Delhi's outrage was voiced by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who said India will not tolerate use of territories by its neighbours for launching attacks in this country and that there will be a "cost" to it. The US is also building pressure on Pakistan, with Secretary of StateCondoleezza Rice who arrives here tomorrow for talks with Indian leaders, saying Islamabad must "follow evidence wherever it leads" and lend "absolute" and "transparent" cooperation to New Delhi in the probe into the Mumbai terror strikes. On the solidarity shown by the world leaders, including the US President-elect, with India in the aftermath of the Mumbai incidents, the External Affairs Minister said: "We appreciate the responses which we have received from all over the world, including Obama." From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 20:57:25 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:57:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan, an international migraine, says Albright Message-ID: <6353c690812020727l62cb87a3o743e286363f3e945@mail.gmail.com> *Pakistan, an international migraine, says Albright* Press Trust of India Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:56 PM (Washington ) Counting many elements, including terrorism and nuclear weapons, in Pakistan as causes of international worries, a former top US official has described the South Asian country as an "international migraine". "...my own sense is Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists, corruption, very poor and it's in a location that's really, really important to us. And now with this issue with India. So, I think that the current president and the current secretary of state, who's on her way to India right now, have a very big jobahead of them," said former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. "And I also do think that the next president and the secretary of state are going to have to pay a great deal of attention to that combination of issues, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, that all fittogether. That's very important to the United States," she added. In the wake of current tension between India and Pakistan following the Mumbaiterror attacks, Albright said that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari was trying very hard to deal with the issue. "...there's an agreement that the Pakistanis understand what the issue is. I think that if we have clear evidence and intelligence that is one part of this. And that is the Achilles' heel of everything, which is whether you have actual intelligence. "...I think that he is their president and he is working very hard to try to get control over what is a very difficult place," she added. Responding to a query on a remark made by President-elect Barack Obama, at his press conference in Chicago, in the wake of last week's terror attacks in Mumbai, the ex-official also endorsed the stand of the incoming US president. "I think that what President-elect Obama said about the fact that every country, under the United Nations, has the right to defend itself, that is absolutely true. But it's also true that they are investigating everything right now and that it is not appropriate for those of us that are not in the government to comment on this," Albright said on CNN's Situation Room programme. "I think that sovereign nations obviously have a right to protect themselves. Beyond that, I don't want to comment on the specific situation that has taken place in South Asia right now," Obama had said when asked if India had the same right as he claimed his administration had in going after terror targets inside Pakistan with or without the permission of the government in Islamabad. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 21:21:38 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:21:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Israel buries victims, vows revenge Message-ID: <6353c690812020751w4445bdf8s610da90af77cd7a3@mail.gmail.com> Israel buries victims, vows revenge *Jerusalem: Amid heart-rending scenes, thousands of tearful Israeli mourners dressed in black and chanting hymns today bid an emotional farewell to the six Jews who were killed in the deadly Mumbai terror strikes. * Twenty nine-year-old Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife Rivka, who ran a centre for ultra-orthodox Chabad-Lubavitch movement in the Nariman House, were among those killed when terrorists stormed the Jewish complex. An Israel Air Force plane brought the bodies here last night, along with the couple's two-year-old orphaned son Moshe. President Shimon Peres, Defence Minister Ehud Barak and opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu joined about 10,000 people who crowded outside the sect's headquarters in Kfar Chabad near Tel Aviv. Indian ambassador to Israel Navtej Sarna and members of the Indian community were present to share the grief. Ultra-orthodox Jewish men, bearded and in long black coats and black hats, also packed the Mea Shearim neighbourhood in Jerusalem for the funeral of 38-year-old Leibish Teitelbaum, a US citizen who lived in Jerusalem. Notices in billboards and walls read "May God Avenge Them." Wailing mourners recited prayers from Book of Psalms. Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky, a Chabad official from New York, delivered a moving eulogy for the young Rabbi and his wife and said "We will answer the terrorists." He pledged to rebuild the Mumbai centre and name it after the Holtzbergs. Emotions ran high as the Rabbi described Moshe, who was rescued by his Indian nanny from the clutches of terrorists, as the "child of Israel." Israeli TV stations had been repeatedly playing Moshe's heart-rending cries for his mother at a memorial ceremony in Mumbai. (c) Copyright 2008 PTI. All rights reserved. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 21:33:18 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:03:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai In-Reply-To: <138257.8608.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <690491.99811.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra Whatever little world I have seen so far, I do not see Pakistan with even an iota of difference from any other country in terms of how people's minds have been brainwashed for nationalism or religious identity. We have the same tools of brainwashing being used in every country, every culture when it comes to national or religious pride. And I repeat that it is just a few people or ruling institutions that prepare the discourse for pride or hatred - the public is not concerned about a larger nation unless they are brainwashed about it. We are all familiar with how the Nehru-Gandhi-Congress image has been sowed into our psyche as the only image of Indian identity. Pakistan's effort at defining its "national identity" may have failed so far (as compared to other "straight" countries) but that's about the only difference. And we are seeing Pakistan differently because it is our closest "enemy", and we have too much at stake with it. If our closest "enemy" was Namibia, we would be interpreting Namibia's history in the same manner. Yousuf --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement on Mumbai > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 8:31 PM > Dear Yousuf >   > What I meant by the "inner mind" was the > 'attitudinal mind' embedded in the psyche through > conditioning. >   > Would that apply to all countries and communities? > Certainly to some extent in specfic scenarios that would > vary for each and so would also vary the intensity of > reactions aroused. >   > Jews hate Muslims. Muslims hate Jews. Brits hate the French > but happily use French cosmetics/perfumes. Vegetarians have > a revulsion towards eating meat but not > neccessarily towards meat eaters. Many meat eaters cannot > suffer even the thought of eating innards or snakes or dogs > or odd looking things like crabs, shrimps, lobsters, squid. > Others love eating them. That is the embedded attitudinal > psyche. >   > It comes from being conditioned to feel/think/react in that > manner either by simple non-instructed imitative > behaviour or by consciously being taught/indoctrinated.  >   > Brahmins for example were formally taught to detest > Shudras. Colour and Race prejudice is also embedded > attitudinal psyche. >   > The best part of this Mind-DNA is that it can be altered. > Detoxified perhaps. Easily in some cases and with some > difficulty in others. Some changes would take a generation > reared in 'sterile non-indoctrination'. >   > Kshmendra >   > PS. I do not agree with your statement that "The > governments and the public opinions are formed only by a > handful of people in any country.". It varies from > country to country. In Pakistan that we were talking about, > it is much more complex than most other countries. What is > also interesting about Pakistan is the changes since 1947 > that have taken place in the Mind-DNA of the "National > Psyche".  > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf > wrote: > > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan Statement > on Mumbai > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:01 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks for your clarification, and I am happy to know that > you do appreciate > Pakistan and its citizens more than I thought. I was only > reacting to the > sentence "hate runs deep in the psyche of majority of > Pakistanis" > which sounded alarming. The governments and the public > opinions are formed only > by a handful of people in any country. And the act of a few > people cannot be > generalized to an entire community and masses. As for how > the "inner > mind" of anyone is hidden behind his/her facial > expression; can't that > be applied to people of any country or community? > > regards > > Yousuf > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan > Statement on Mumbai > > To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:25 PM > > Dear Yousuf > >   > > I will touch upon only some issues since Shumona Goel > has > > already branded me a hate monger. > >   > > Yes I have visited Pakistan and not just once. Yes I > know > > many Pakistanis personally and some of my dearest > friends > > are Pakistanis. > >   > > My experience of personal interaction with > Pakistanis is > > no different than yours. In my case this includes > almost > > hedonistic wining, dining and partying with them. > >   > > Amongst my favourite poets are some from Pakistan like > > Faiz, Obaidullah Aleem, Parveen Shakir, Amjad Islam > Amjad. > > Mehdi Hassan's singing provides food for not just > my > > heart but the soul too. > >   > > Yes it is true that by all accounts without any > exception, > > Indians who went to Pakistan for the cricket matches > had > > nothing but glowing praise for the warmth and > hospitality > > they received and the sporting nature of the Pakistani > > crowds. > >   > > Yes it is also true that we in India in comparison > were > > most shoddy in reciprocating that warmth and > hospitality > > when Pakistanis came to India for the cricket matches > and > > our crowds were boorish in their behaviour.  > >   > > Having said all of that, you would appreciate that > > relationships on a personal level have nothing to do > with > > what country a person is from. Nor can they form the > basis > > of making a macro level evaluation of the > 'psyche' > > of a country. > >   > > The 'inner mind' transcends the behaviour of > > 'hail fellow well met' pleasant situations. > >   > > As an example, it would be foolish for anyone to > believe > > that the warmth generated by Vajpayee and even someone > > like Advani during their visits to Pakistan is in any > way a > > reflection of their "inner mind". > >   > > Yousuf, at one point in my life, I had the easy choice > of > > nurturing for ever after a HATE for Islam and > Pakistan. > > Instead I chose to study about and understand both. I > will > > not go into details of 'how and where', but I > > continue to monitor Pakistan on an almost daily basis. > >  > > That is where my evaluations come from. > >   > > Kshmendra > >   > > PS. As an Indian, I desire a stable Pakistan with a > vibrant > > democracy. That, in my opinion is what is best for > India. > >   > >    > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan > Statement > > on Mumbai > > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > , > kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:28 PM > > > > Dear Kshmendra > > I am tempted to intervene in your description of how > > "hate" is > > promoted in Pakistan according to you. Have you ever > > visited Pakistan? Do you > > know any Pakistanis (or met them) personally from whom > you > > got these vibes. I > > know I am falling into a clich'ed trap, but I > wanted to > > let you know that > > almost all Indians who ever visited Pakistan or met > people > > from there recently > > have talked about how warmly they were treated when > they > > visited there as > > Indians. I (an Indian) myself spent about 5 months in > > Lahore, Karachi and > > Islamabad in 2005 (as part of a fellowship), and I did > not > > meet a single person > > there who hated Indians or Hindus (at least they > didn't > > say it to me, nor > > did their conversations revealed this hate you talk > about). > > An average Pakistani > > knew and appreciated much more about India than any > Indians > > would about > > Pakistan. Most of them looked up to India in terms of > the > > progress it has made > > and they love Indian movies, music and every thing > else. In > > fact the moment they got to know I was an Indian they > > would hug me warmly. > > When they found I was a Muslim, they were slightly > > disappointed - they were > > actually looking forward to meet a Hindu! When I was > in > > Pakistan, there was a > > cricket match series. The Indian team visited Lahore > and > > won a one-day match. > > The victory of India was celebrated by Pakistanis with > > firecrackers and sweets. > > In contrast, when the Pakistani team was about to win > in > > Delhi (in the same > > series), the disappointed Delhiites threw stones into > the > > pitch (at Kotla > > stadium). I can go on and on about this, but I am sure > my > > descriptions would be > > utterly misunderstood in the present scenario. > > > > Having said the above, I will not claim that the > > fundamentalist elements and > > the terror-training doesn't exist in Pakistan. It > is > > proven, and more than > > India, the Pakistani extremist have been destructive > to > > their own country. They > > strike at will at places like Karachi and Islamabad > killing > > hundreds of Muslims > > with no regret. So these are Muslims killing other > Muslims. > > Yes there is > > hate-proganda about other sects and ideologies (as you > > listed), but I didn't > > find a single person affected by it. You must also > realize > > that since the time > > of Musharraf, the top leadership is seriously > concerned and > > working towards > > eliminating the blot of terror from Pakistan. Maybe > the > > situation is so out of > > control and complex that it will take more time and > effort. > > The powerful > > religio-political institutions built in both countries > will > > take a lot of effort > > to break down. But in short, I do not agree with you > that > > "Hate Agendas run > > deep in the veins and psyche of the > > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis". Common > > Pakistanis are so curious to > > visit India and meet Indians. I am talking from > personal > > experience, and would > > like to know if you have had any personal experiences > > yourself. In fact I would > > like if there are any "non-Muslims" on this > list > > who have visited > > Pakistan or interacted with its citizens to share > their > > experiences. > > > > Yousuf > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Joint India-Pakistan > > Statement on Mumbai > > > To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:47 PM > > > Dear Naeem > > >   > > > I fully realise what I wrote and reaffirm the > > statement. If > > > you find it unfair, it is perhaps because you are > not > > > familiar enough with the realities in Pakistan. > > >   > > > Let me repeat what I said (slightly edited): > > >   > > > " Hate Agendas run deep in the veins and > psyche > > of the > > > overwhelming majority of Pakistanis" > > >   > > > The 'danger' is not in what I said > but in > > ignoring > > > what I said. Ignoring that reality has led to > allowing > > the > > > dangers emanating from Pakistan to go > unchallenged. > > >   > > > I do not hate Pakistan as presumed by you. Hate > clouds > > > well-informed and well-reasoned evaluations.  > > >   > > > The 'violent minority' that you refer to > is > > not the > > > totality or completeness of expression of the > > "Hate > > > Agendas" I spoke about. The 'National > Psyche > > of > > > Pakistan' is the breeding ground for such > partial > > > (violent) expression. > > >   > > > Naeem, I suggest to you Sir that Pakistan was > created > > > "For Muslims" or "In the name of > > Islam" > > > (take your pick), the institution that has held > it > > together > > > since 1947 is the Military Establishment and the > > > 'ideology' that has held it together is > not > > Islam > > > but "Hate for India". > > >   > > > To that "National Hate for India" they > have > > > managed to add through the years "National > Hate > > for > > > USA". In fact "National Hate for > Everyone > > > Else" including (surprise, surprise) Arabs. > > >   > > > The "Hate Agendas", in keeping with > > > Pakistan's federated structure extend > themselves > > to the > > > mutualities of "Hate Punjabis", > "Hate > > > Sindhis", "Hate Mohajirs", > "Hate > > > Balochis", "Hate Pathans", > "Hate > > > Kashmiris". > > >   > > > Let us not forget the packed pockets of > > "Hate" > > > based on their own convoluted interpretation of > Islam > > and > > > not just directed towards Music,Dance, Films and > > Barbers and > > > Girls' Schools but also "Hate > Shias", > > > "Hate Sunnis", "Hate Ahmedis, > > "Hate > > > Barelvis", "Hate Deobandhis", > > "Hate > > > Wahabis", "Hate Sufis", "Hate > > > Dargahs". > > >   > > > We are talking about HATE in it's most > intense and > > > degraded forms of expression and not milder > attitudes > > like > > > dislikes or disagreements. > > >   > > > What you say is true (and it is not > much different in > > > India) that the "overwhelming majority of > > Pakistanis > > > are struggling for roti-kapra-makaan". But > we are > > not > > > talking about the needs of the body here. Those > needs > > are > > > common for all humans. > > >   > > > There is a uniqueness in the food (or blood) > that > > > satisfies those minds and psyches  that are > > conditoned to > > > "Hate" or in some cases the menus > sought for > > > "liberating the soul" through the > > 'destruction > > > of others'. Study Pakistan to understand and > > realise > > > that. > > >   > > > Kshmendra > > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 22:08:02 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 22:08:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Baa Nahin... by Prasoon Joshi Message-ID: <6353c690812020838k3398ceb0n44f5cdb83ba6d8fe@mail.gmail.com> Lyricist Prasoon Joshi has written a beautiful poem that he wrote after the Mumbai terror attacks. The ad guru and film lyricist says, "I believe it should reach as many people as possible because it is our collective pain and voice". Here it is for you: *Is Baar Nahin!* Is baar jab woh choti si bachchi mere paas apni kharonch le kar aayegi Main usey phoo phoo kar nahin behlaoonga Panapney doonga uski tees ko Is baar nahin Is baar jab main chehron par dard likha dekhoonga Nahin gaoonga geet peeda bhula dene wale Dard ko risney doonga,utarney doonga andar gehrey Is baar nahin Is baar main na marham lagaoonga Na hi uthaoonga rui ke phahey Aur na hi kahoonga ki tum aankein band karlo,gardan udhar kar lo main dawa lagata hoon Dekhney doonga sabko hum sabko khuley nangey ghaav Is baar nahin Is baar jab uljhaney dekhoonga,chatpatahat dekhoonga Nahin daudoonga uljhee door lapetney Uljhaney doonga jab tak ulajh sake Is baar nahin Is baar karm ka hawala de kar nahin uthaoonga auzaar Nahin karoonga phir se ek nayee shuruaat Nahin banoonga misaal ek karmyogi ki Nahin aaney doonga zindagi ko aasani se patri par Utarney doonga usey keechad main,tedhey medhey raston pe Nahin sookhney doonga deewaron par laga khoon Halka nahin padney doonga uska rang Is baar nahin banney doonga usey itna laachaar Ki paan ki peek aur khoon ka fark hi khatm ho jaye Is baar nahin Is baar ghawon ko dekhna hai Gaur se Thoda lambe wakt tak Kuch faisley Aur uskey baad hausley Kahin toh shuruat karni hi hogi Is baar yahi tay kiya hai *... Prasoon Joshi* Let us all please take the same pledge: *"Is Baar Nahin"* Please circulate it widely... Read more at - http://www.thisismypov.com/main.php?t=M&st=M From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 23:28:44 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:28:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For those who HATE Pakistan Message-ID: <47e122a70812020958k22409055u4498b2f7040f42b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I am not even a smallest scholar of Dr. Iqbal, the great poet, but 'the present' tempts me to write a bit on the times he lived in, mainly because he was the real force behind Jinnah to push Pakistan Agenda. It is more interesting also because all the people connected with partition had something to do with Western thought. Whether Tagore was a force behind Gandhi or not but his desire for recognition by the West was ultimate, and so was Iqbal's urge to learn western Philosophy. Gandhi himself had a shallow ( old Testament like ) outlook on sexuality, temple art and a shallow understanding of class. See, how Gandhi trusted Nehru, and how Iqbal trusted Jinnah, both well versed in western philosophy. Not surprising that all the four were lawyers, and deeply interested in politics. When Queen of England died in 1901, Dr. Iqbal wrote both in prose and verse in her honour, which he much later regretted. ( see text at the page's bottom ) .He was deeply interested in politics, and even won an election by a huge margin. He was indeed a great poet, but what was his real dream? His influence was Rumi, the great Persian Sufi Saint poet, but did he end up as a Sufi poet or a deep analyst-admirer of Holy Book Quran? He admired Ghalib, although ironically he criticized him for his poems written in honour of British Lords. But Ghalib was honest, perhaps, this couplet would come to his defence.( kay who nimrod ki khudayee thee, bandgee mein mera bhala na huva ). I don't know if Dr Iqbal had ever written so lucidly, which he himself knew. ( andazey Bayan agarchi mara shok nahi hai… who mazhab…. Yeh mazhab….( my passion is not to chase poetry for some style…., that religion….this religion ) which is acutely contrary to Ghalib's. Meanwhile Ghalib thought his verse is beautiful only because of sufi saint Hazrat Khusroo, and so Nizammudin Aulia as well. Having said all this so hurriedly, we can never run the genius of Dr. Iqbal and we need to understand him from various angles. It is also true he was disillusioned with Jinnah's political procedures, but he had no alternatives, and he was himself so lazy to address the gatherings himself. He perhaps, could not decide whether he was poet or a philosopher. I guess he could have done much better as a poet if had relinquished his obsession of Nietzsche ( Khudi ko kar buland itna… ) see his style of moustaches and those of Nietzche's ( may be just a coincidence ) By laziness, I mean he loved to live life in style, whether it was dresses or food or travelling abroad and falling in love with European ladies. He was keenly interested in what was happening politically, here back home. He was always in politics, and commented on this or that even when he was not in great health just few years before his death in 1938. It must have been because of his dream for Pakistan that he openly opposed to the Ahmadiyya movement in 1935, but he was true admirer of the same in 1911. Whether that was a threat or not but certainly he tried to quash any other representation to the idea of unity of Muslim. So, Muslim League was the only instrument he believed in. There must be hundreds of such points which can paint Dr. Iqbal badly, but this is not my intention here. Here my interest is to investigate the reasons why the original dream of a new Islamic nation failed to move. Dr. Iqbal knew that his forefathers were Kashmiri Brahmins, but what mattered for him was his idea of restoration of Muslim Past, which was indeed glorious in parts, here or there. Was that not possible to cherish along with Hindus ? I guess it was, but, was Gandhi's love for Lord Ram too much for him to consider that possibility. The reason for his early love for Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Mohammad ( 1835-1908, the founder of Ahmediyyas ) was because of his open criticism of Christians and Arya Samjis. His later criticism of Ahmediyyas was because it consolidated as a sect. But he himself says that Hazrat Mirza was the truest admirer of Quran. But that was before, now he saw a chance for all the Muslims of India to realize his dream, with a tremendous Islamic past as heritage, and with a real Prophet as messiah of compassion and simplicity. But Pakistan was not meant for that. It was not even about Dr. Iqbal's whatever dream, but it was about power, it was about British design to divide the subcontinent for their own gains. See how difficult is the vocabulary in his verses. Without luggat ( dictionary ) it is damn impossible to understand the philosophy hidden in his verses which in anyway is hugely inspired by Islamic holy scriptures. How a simple peasant, uprooted from Bihar and Punjab could have made his poetry as their ideal for future life. For a typical Punjabi there was a great folk culture , music and poetry, for a Sindhi and Bengali it was his own and so on… He certainly was quite sophisticated for an ordinary Muslim to follow. Dr. Iqbal is in his Mausoleum, and Mr. Jinnah is thinly visible in the Pakistani currency notes. Who sings Iqbal in Pakistan, none, other than a sufi who has read Bange-Dara. His poetry is lasting as and when he comes out of the pretension of being a philosopher. A peasant, a labourer, a simple factory worker or a clerk is hardly aware about Dr. Iqbal. It is too difficult, that must be the inner reality in Pakistan. Since 1947, it was indeed the new green flag with crescent on it which must have driven masses to love Pakistan. Next, it must be Army and their vested interests which are holding Pakistan. And above all, it must be Anglo-American foreign policies that support the idea of Pakistan. Dr. Iqbal's dream for a new Islamic world in this subcontinent was bound to create this fundamentalism, because if the poet-philosopher is difficult then people indeed look for a cheap maulana to guide their destinies. That is what is happening in madarasas. This is what I have been made to believe that there are 0.5 million madarasses in Pakistan. Do we need a school inspector to tell us that they don't teach Dr. Iqbal's poetry ! Gopi Chand Narang, a prominent Iqbal scholar says that there are thousands of titles on Iqbal in theacademic world but just one or two on his poetry. So now, is it fair to conclude that Dr. Iqbal's poetry, which was difficult anyway, was not the priority of people at helm in 1947 after the creation of Pakistan. So, it is quite reasonable to believe that average Pakistani is innocent, caught between the Army, dynasty rule, Mullahism and poverty. What can Indian do? Not to hate the common Pakistani, in the least…. Having said all this, I again want to come back to Dr. Iqbal's poetry: his intense urge to control the word. It was perhaps, pointed out by Goethe, that the inherent musicality in the verses of Quran is the reason for its followers to believe in it, endlessly. Poets too have been trying to achieve that magical effects in their verses, sources of which are cosmic/unknown. See Ghalib, Aatey hein gaib say yeh mazameen khayal mein, Ghalib sareeray nama nawaya sarosh hai. ( these couplets are coming from unknown sources, and the sound in my pen is of angle's ) How similar. In another couplet Ghalib says that he yearns for a home parallel to Heaven but not the one made by God ) . Sufi poetry is full of such fantasies and thoughts which I cherish. Dr. Iqbal was intensely trying to achieve that magical effect without undermining the authority of sacred book Quran. He had perhaps no need to write poetry if there was not a strong tradition of writing poetry in Islamic world. If the agenda was simply to spread the message of Prophet Mohammad he could have written some easy prose, or moved from village to village and helped people to understand Islam. But he wanted to satisfy his inner urge to sit in the company of great poets like Ghalib and all the galaxy of other urdu poets, and for that reason alone he wrote verses, I believe. He knew he could not achieve the genius of Ghalib but he had no choice because he had absorbed all the Persian and Urdu poetry, mixed it with western philosophy. I think the times were such that he could not ignore politics of his times. with love and peace inder salim …………………………………………………….. here is Dr. Iqbal Upon the death of Queen Victoria in 1901, Dr. Iqbal penned an epicedium of ten pages, entitled 'Tears of Blood', from which we give a few verses below. The Queen died on the day of Eid-ul-Fitr, and Iqbal wrote: "Happiness came, but grief came along with it, Yesterday was Eid, but today came muharram [month of the year associated with the deepest mourning for Muslims] "Easier than the grief and mourning of this day, Would be the coming of the morn of the day of judgment. "Ah! the Queen of the realm of the heart has passed away, My scarred heart has become a house of mourning. "O India, thy lover has passed away, She who sighed at thy troubles has passed away. "O India, the protective shadow of God has been lifted from above you, She who sympathised with your inhabitants has gone. "Victoria is not dead as her good name remains, this is the life to whomever God gives it. "May the deceased receive abundant heavenly reward, and may we show goodly patience." -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 05:16:02 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:46:02 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' References: <82BB5A43DE284A04BAD76F748DADB2CE@tara> Message-ID: Hi Naeem and all. I don't think I will stop caring about India if I get a scholarship to Australia. I am in the US for sometime and the incidents in the subcontinent still interest as much, if not more, as they would if I was in India. I also agree that Asra has as much right to talk about India, even if exclusively about Muslims as has anyone else. You don't have to belong to that country to have an interest in that country, so many people are interested in Pakistan from other countries. That interest is negative in nature and that same negative interest reflects in Asra's writ-up. It is not apartheid like situation in India. Muslims are not treated the way Dalits still are in some places. So they are not untouchables in any sense. A Muslim Bengali is more likely to get a job in a Hindu Bengali's place than a Hindu Bihari. Raj Thakure in Bombay is not bothered by Muslims if they speak Marathi as he is bothered by Hindus who don't speak Marathi. Bihari ministers do prefer Bihari, even if Muslims, than they would a Tamilian. I really dislike the way the current discourse monolithicize Hindus and Muslims in India. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" To: Cc: "taraprakash" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:20 PM Subject: Re: Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > Taraprakash > It's a fair point that perhaps these gruesome attacks are not the best > context to talk about Sacchar Commission. By the way I have been long > advocating a Saccar style report on condition of Bangladeshi Hindus, I > suspect we will see similar results (although the absolute number of > Hindu population is lower). > > But, one question: Is it fair to debunk Asra by pinching her about > living in the US. Also, is it fair to say, she should only focus on US > issues? People have multiple homes, and multiple locales of caring. If > tomorrow you got a scholarship to Australia, would you stop caring > about India? > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM, taraprakash wrote: >> Oh yes this is the season for the sale of such publicity seeking >> articles. >> And those settled in the US are going to get so much more publicity for >> writing what looks different. Isn't this author suggesting that this >> gruesome incidents can be avoided if the Muslims in India are educated, >> brought out of Madrasas to "mainstream" schools, given employment? >> Such comments will actually hurt the Muslims in India more than it will >> do >> any good anywhere. Majority of Muslims know that this incident has >> nothing >> to do with how Muslmis are treated/mistreated in India. The Hindu >> fundmentalists will use such articles to spread more hatred against >> Muslims. >> it is fashionable to abuse ones own country in the US. Recently a Sikh >> woman >> contesting for the Senate for Republican party said, "I belong to India. >> I >> was a minority and you know minorities cannot go out of their houses >> without >> being given an ugly look" And this woman had seen nothing of 1984. She >> had >> left India in late 60's. >> >> Sacchar committee's report deserves serious attention and affirmative >> action. But is fair to talk about it in the light of this gruesome >> attack? >> My answer, even that of the majority Muslims, is no. They might actually >> tell her, hey miss. It may be fun in the US; and you may not like in >> India >> anymore but to us it isn't that bad. Even if it is, we have our own >> voices. >> If you really want to improve the lot of Muslims throughout the world, >> try >> to influence the country which is yours now. Muslims are much more >> comfortable in India than they are in the US. They are happier with India >> much more than they are with the US. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" >> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:25 PM >> Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' >> >> >>> Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' >>> The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world >>> has overlooked the nation's problems. >>> >>> By Asra Q. Nomani >>> December 1, 2008 >>> >>> The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet >>> morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & >>> Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of >>> violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines >>> recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my >>> ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste >>> traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. >>> >>> "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in >>> the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care >>> of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is >>> the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. >>> >>> Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd >>> captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more >>> than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. >>> But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly >>> turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my >>> relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from >>> anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. >>> >>> India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example >>> of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. >>> My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My >>> parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father >>> pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's >>> successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show >>> it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. >>> >>> But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of >>> Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was >>> deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and >>> businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had >>> deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless >>> and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, >>> when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with >>> bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. >>> >>> Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years >>> ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing >>> for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly >>> resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of >>> Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a >>> depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims >>> live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." >>> >>> According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former >>> Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than >>> the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. >>> >>> Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. >>> >>> Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit >>> women. >>> >>> Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. >>> >>> While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of >>> India's prison population. >>> >>> Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. >>> >>> The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to >>> remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action >>> programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in >>> place. >>> >>> Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would >>> be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was >>> hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out >>> in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join >>> militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as >>> inspiration. >>> >>> What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over >>> India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary >>> William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the >>> U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic >>> and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the >>> socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said >>> that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of >>> Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of >>> stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in >>> the country. >>> >>> India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim >>> population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million >>> Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or >>> the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 >>> million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, >>> social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we >>> would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the >>> national security of not just India but the United States. >>> >>> Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for >>> danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my >>> mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A >>> Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal >>> reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the >>> location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of >>> Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They >>> found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. >>> >>> Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's >>> Struggle for the Soul of Islam." >>> >>> >>> Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: >>> >>> http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 09:13:52 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:13:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Exceptional Opinion Piece in Dawn Message-ID: <13df7c120812021943m53ce22e9l4b7dede3c2f053d2@mail.gmail.com> *Media falls in the old trap* By Beena Sarwar THE Mumbai nightmare has plunged the media in India and Pakistan into the dangerous, old trap in which nationalism trumps responsible reporting. This is not a new phenomenon, nor is it restricted to India and Pakistan. American journalists fell into this trap after the attack on the Twin Towers in New York on Sept 11, 2001. They were vigorously criticised for their unquestioning over-reliance on the security establishment for information. The security establishment, with its blinkered security paradigm, fed them false information that prepared the ground for the Iraq invasion and the Afghanistan bombing. As part of society, journalists may find it difficult to step back and see the larger picture, especially when their countries are under attack. Responsible reporting and commentary require recognising this fallibility. There is no such thing as objective journalism. All journalists have their own world views and political baggage but at least we can aspire to be fair — to our subjects, to our audiences, and perhaps to our common humanity rather than national identities."Media manipulation is less an issue of overt censorship than an internalisation of myths and mindsets," commented Rita Manchanda, summing up a radical critique of the mass media by Indian and Pakistani journalists ('Reporting conflict', South Asia Forum for Human Rights, May 2001). If the Indian media tends to be nationalistic and trusting in its government (which Pakistan government representatives often ask the more cynical Pakistanis to emulate), the Pakistani media has clearly demarcated no-go areas. As the veteran Peshawar-based journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai said at the consultation, "Pakistani journalists never had the opportunity to professionally cover the 1965 or 1971 wars or the Rann of Kutch or Kargil conflicts." Add the conflicts in Balochistan and the northern areas to that list since then. The Babri Masjid demolition, the nuclear tests and the Kargil conflict all fed jingoism and jingoistic reporting on both sides. Sometimes journalists are culpable more by omission than commission, ignoring or playing down certain aspects or not asking crucial questions. Take the festering issue of prisoners. The young Indian fisherman Lakshman who died in a Karachi jail on March 10, 2008 received scant mention in the Pakistani media. The body of a Pakistani prisoner Khalid Mehmood who died in an Indian prison, sent home around the same time, made front-page news, with many journalists accusing the Indians of torture. Prison conditions and how the police treat prisoners in both countries are no secret. It is not that we treat Indian prisoners well, while they viciously torture Pakistanis. Sometimes a prisoner's death results not from outright torture but illness arising from neglect — poor living conditions in a hostile environment, extreme temperatures, lack of medical attention, all compounded by lack of contact with loved ones back home. When the Maharashtra government stopped two Pakistani artists from continuing their work in Mumbai, TV reporters here got sound bites from passers-by who condemned the action. The reporter did not ask, and nor did the respondents bring up, the question of what would have happened had the situation been reversed — would Indians have been allowed to continue working here in the aftermath of such an attack, in which the attackers were widely believed to have links with India? Similarly, talk show hosts let hawkish talk go unchallenged. In one recent instance, a retired army general referred to India as Pakistan's dushman mulk (enemy country). They invite more balanced commentators also but give them get far less time and space. Channels play up Mahesh Butt's criticism of the Indian media but, as the analyst Foqia Sadiq Khan asks, would they quote someone from Pakistan criticising the Pakistani media? "They quote Shabana Azmi ad nauseum that she couldn't find a flat in Bombay being a Muslim, but not on her opinion of fundamentalism." Media might have brought the people closer but when nationalism rears its head, the beast of 24-hour television news also fuels conflict. This is where the commercial aspect comes in. When something big happens, the public seeks answers. The channels which cater to this need improve their ratings. Sensation sells. With viewers glued to the screens, channels keep them there with a continuous virtual reality show. They fill the time with speculative commentary, 'expert' guests and whatever footage is available. Sometimes such footage is repeated ad nauseum — like when the Twin Towers were destroyed on 9/11, when the Marriott hotel was attacked, when the FIA building in Lahore was struck. Even when nothing big is happening, information is packaged in an exciting way in order to attract attention. This often means playing up bad news and downplaying good news. TV channels continuously showed the scene of the blasts that rocked the World Performing Arts Festival in Lahore on its second-last day, injuring two people. They did not give the artists who defied fear and went ahead on the last day the same kind of attention. When Zardari was sworn in as president, a breaking news ticker reported: "Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh congratulates Zardari". Breaking news? At least it was true. In the rush to be the first, channels often misreport. The Mumbai nightmare provided several examples, as Kalpana Sharma documents in her critique of the Indian media's coverage of the first 60 hours, 'Unpacking the pixel' in Tehelka. She concludes, "it is essential that reporters be trained to handle such extraordinary situations, that they learn the importance of restraint and cross-checking…. Professionalism and accuracy will ensure that we don't contribute to prejudice and panic." Some Indian channels are running the Pakistan factor like a movie trailer, complete with sound effects and watch-for-the-next-episode commentary. This obviously fuels Pakistani indignation. However, this indignation could be tempered by being less reactive and empathising with the Indians' pain and grief that many Pakistanis share. Zealous commentators could also recall the times that their own media houses sensationalised an issue. Journalists may argue that they are just the messenger, reflecting official or public opinion. But the media must also question, and get people to think. The stakes are high in our nuclear-armed countries, in a post-9/11 world where the major players include armed and trained men around the world who subscribe to the ideology of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. As President Asif Ali Zardari said, even if elements within Pakistan were involved it is these same elements that the Pakistan government is fighting. So how much sense does it make to push the Pakistan government in a corner and divert its attention from fighting these elements? The writer is an independent journalist based in Karachi. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/03/op.htm Best Regards -- Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:10:21 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:10:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Is Baar Nahin" and "Mad as Hell" Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812022040q227cd6e7u2d3b146d8344ccf@mail.gmail.com> Please check out... http://www.thisismypov.com/ http://www.thisismypov.com/main.php?t=OP&st=D&no=35 Please circulate as appropriate. Pawan__._,_.___ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:10:43 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:10:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For those who HATE Pakistan In-Reply-To: <47e122a70812020958k22409055u4498b2f7040f42b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70812020958k22409055u4498b2f7040f42b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Inder You are insisting so much about Iqbal's role in the creation of Pakistan, but it is hotly debated these days whether he really gave the idea of Pakistan or not. Although in one of his speeches he did talk about a separate state governed by the Muslims, but he never imagined it would become the Pakistan as we see it today. In fact in a letter to one of British friends he later on clarified that he did not give the idea of a separate country for Muslims which the people are attributing to him. I don't have the correct reference to that correspondence now, but maybe I will find and send you soon. Here are some excerpts from another essay which raise some doubts about whether it was really Iqbal who gave the idea of Pakistan: "Iqbal's conception of a modern Muslim state- which emerges from the Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam is of a state run by representatives elected by the people. In addition to the supreme legislative body, the parliament, including the Non-Muslim members, was also to be the Grand National Ijtehad Council which would meet to modernise Islamic traditions, civil code and criminal code. The reason why his book was denounced unanimously by the Mullahs was because they saw that Iqbal favored giving the state the power to completely change Islam according to modern times. For example he argued that the state could ban polygamy and that would be perfectly Islamic... Thus it is quite clear - from his lectures atleast- that Iqbal was not against representative rule. It is also quite clear that he himself used the terms "Social Democracy" and "Spiritual Democracy", the former being a system of government and society that sought create equitable distribution of power, wealth and participation and the latter a system of religious "movement" which ensured the constant updation of religious tradition. Infact Iqbal's famous idea of a "separate Muslim state in North West of India" in 1930 was not inspired by any attempt at achieving group rights or a group-identity consciousness etc but rather the idea that just like Judaeo-Christian ethics have colored the otherwise secular legal systems of the west, Islamic ethics should get a chance to develop and modernise in a similar fashion in a state of its own. Thus what he was presumably afraid of was the lack of a moral basis for the democratic system. (Ironically similar fears were raised Gandhi in India but Gandhian Religious Moral Philosophy was not allowed any constitutional expression by Dr. Ambedkar). Allama Iqbal favored hyphenated democracy of sorts- a democracy limited by morality determined by Islamic ethics. While in my view this idea is inherently flawed but it is clear that a majority of Muslims around the world agree with Iqbal's idea, what they don't agree with is Iqbal's liberal interpretation of Islamic law and his readiness to do away with what they consider to be the central motif of islam. The reason why no one mentions Allama Iqbal's views on democracy because the current pro-Democracy movement is not concerned with the issues that have been mentioned above. The current pro-Democracy movement wants representative civilian rule. Whether this representative rule would be limited by Islamic ethics or human reason is an issue that is irrelevant to the movement. Truth be told Iqbal's stature has been enhanced by the state each passing year. He is no longer just the national poet and philosopher but is now a founding father equal to Mahomed Ali Jinnah in the official state pantheon. How is it that Allama Iqbal- who passed away 2 years before the Pakistan Movement officially kicked off- is held today in equal esteem to Jinnah ? There is no question that Allama Iqbal was widely respected as the foremost Muslim poet since Hali. But there has been considerable exaggeration when it comes to giving him credit for Pakistan's creation. According to "Plain Mr. Jinnah" a collection of Jinnah's personal correspondence, a Muslim League volunteer found Iqbal's letters to Jinnah in some corner of Jinnah's legal library in his house in Bombay, after the 1940 resolution. The first edition of Iqbal-Jinnah Correspondence, published by the Muslim League, is from 1941 or 1942. In my opinion from the period 1947-1958, Iqbal was celebrated as a great poet but not for anything else. It was 1958 onwards that the revision of Iqbal as a founding father began. There are several reasons for it. One major reason is that Army, as an institution, has at best always been uncomfortable with Mahomed Ali Jinnah's memory. A lawyer-politician and parliamentarian as the founding father and the "Quaid-e-Azam" has always given the army people a bit of a kick in the balls. Ayub in particular , it is said, could never get over Jinnah's chilly rebuke to army officers (when they complained about British officers) informing them that it was civilians who made policy and not army men. Especially after the threat posed by Fatima Jinnah in 1965, the army realised that Pakistan with a single memory cannot be good for them. Allama Iqbal in contrast provided a much more workable situation. The Iqbalian concepts of "Mard-e-Momin" and "Shaheen" (even though Iqbal's Mard-e-Momin and Shaheen could be civilians) were used- much in the same way Nazis used Nietzche's "Superman"- to invent the "Super-Fauji" who could dodge bullets and travel at the speed of light ... all the while managing a pathetic little country like ours. If Pakistan's 60 years are mapped in terms of Allama Iqbal promotion, the graph would be highest under Ayub, Zia and Musharraf. The Ulema - including people like Dr. Israr- the same sort Iqbal had warned against- have also had good reason to own Iqbal. Much of Iqbal's poetry is recited by the Ulema because it speaks of Islamic glory etc." (My posts to Sarai are not appearing for some reason: could you post this on my behalf - thanks) On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:28 PM, inder salim wrote: > Dear All, > I am not even a smallest scholar of Dr. Iqbal, the great poet, but > 'the present' tempts me to write a bit on the times he lived in, > mainly because he was the real force behind Jinnah to push Pakistan > Agenda. It is more interesting also because all the people connected > with partition had something to do with Western thought. Whether > Tagore was a force behind Gandhi or not but his desire for recognition > by the West was ultimate, and so was Iqbal's urge to learn western > Philosophy. Gandhi himself had a shallow ( old Testament like ) > outlook on sexuality, temple art and a shallow understanding of > class. See, how Gandhi trusted Nehru, and how Iqbal trusted Jinnah, > both well versed in western philosophy. Not surprising that all the > four were lawyers, and deeply interested in politics. > > When Queen of England died in 1901, Dr. Iqbal wrote both in prose > and verse in her honour, which he much later regretted. ( see text at > the page's bottom ) .He was deeply interested in politics, and even > won an election by a huge margin. He was indeed a great poet, but what > was his real dream? His influence was Rumi, the great Persian Sufi > Saint poet, but did he end up as a Sufi poet or a deep analyst-admirer > of Holy Book Quran? He admired Ghalib, although ironically he > criticized him for his poems written in honour of British Lords. But > Ghalib was honest, perhaps, this couplet would come to his defence.( > kay who nimrod ki khudayee thee, bandgee mein mera bhala na huva ). I > don't know if Dr Iqbal had ever written so lucidly, which he himself > knew. ( andazey Bayan agarchi mara shok nahi hai… who mazhab…. Yeh > mazhab….( my passion is not to chase poetry for some style…., that > religion….this religion ) which is acutely contrary to Ghalib's. > Meanwhile Ghalib thought his verse is beautiful only because of sufi > saint Hazrat Khusroo, and so Nizammudin Aulia as well. > > Having said all this so hurriedly, we can never run the genius of Dr. > Iqbal and we need to understand him from various angles. It is also > true he was disillusioned with Jinnah's political procedures, but he > had no alternatives, and he was himself so lazy to address the > gatherings himself. He perhaps, could not decide whether he was poet > or a philosopher. I guess he could have done much better as a poet if > had relinquished his obsession of Nietzsche ( Khudi ko kar buland > itna… ) see his style of moustaches and those of Nietzche's ( may be > just a coincidence ) > > By laziness, I mean he loved to live life in style, whether it was > dresses or food or travelling abroad and falling in love with European > ladies. He was keenly interested in what was happening politically, > here back home. > > He was always in politics, and commented on this or that even when he > was not in great health just few years before his death in 1938. > It must have been because of his dream for Pakistan that he openly > opposed to the Ahmadiyya movement in 1935, but he was true admirer > of the same in 1911. Whether that was a threat or not but certainly he > tried to quash any other representation to the idea of unity of > Muslim. So, Muslim League was the only instrument he believed in. > There must be hundreds of such points which can paint Dr. Iqbal badly, > but this is not my intention here. Here my interest is to > investigate the reasons why the original dream of a new Islamic > nation failed to move. Dr. Iqbal knew that his forefathers were > Kashmiri Brahmins, but what mattered for him was his idea of > restoration of Muslim Past, which was indeed glorious in parts, here > or there. Was that not possible to cherish along with Hindus ? I > guess it was, but, was Gandhi's love for Lord Ram too much for him to > consider that possibility. The reason for his early love for Hazrat > Mirza Ghulam Mohammad ( 1835-1908, the founder of Ahmediyyas ) was > because of his open criticism of Christians and Arya Samjis. His later > criticism of Ahmediyyas was because it consolidated as a sect. > > But he himself says that Hazrat Mirza was the truest admirer of > Quran. But that was before, now he saw a chance for all the Muslims > of India to realize his dream, with a tremendous Islamic past as > heritage, and with a real Prophet as messiah of compassion and > simplicity. But Pakistan was not meant for that. It was not even about > Dr. Iqbal's whatever dream, but it was about power, it was about > British design to divide the subcontinent for their own gains. > > See how difficult is the vocabulary in his verses. Without luggat ( > dictionary ) it is damn impossible to understand the philosophy hidden > in his verses which in anyway is hugely inspired by Islamic holy > scriptures. How a simple peasant, uprooted from Bihar and Punjab could > have made his poetry as their ideal for future life. For a typical > Punjabi there was a great folk culture , music and poetry, for a > Sindhi and Bengali it was his own and so on… He certainly was quite > sophisticated for an ordinary Muslim to follow. > > Dr. Iqbal is in his Mausoleum, and Mr. Jinnah is thinly visible in > the Pakistani currency notes. Who sings Iqbal in Pakistan, none, other > than a sufi who has read Bange-Dara. His poetry is lasting as and when > he comes out of the pretension of being a philosopher. A peasant, a > labourer, a simple factory worker or a clerk is hardly aware about Dr. > Iqbal. It is too difficult, that must be the inner reality in > Pakistan. > > Since 1947, it was indeed the new green flag with crescent on it which > must have driven masses to love Pakistan. Next, it must be Army and > their vested interests which are holding Pakistan. And above all, it > must be Anglo-American foreign policies that support the idea of > Pakistan. Dr. Iqbal's dream for a new Islamic world in this > subcontinent was bound to create this fundamentalism, because if the > poet-philosopher is difficult then people indeed look for a cheap > maulana to guide their destinies. That is what is happening in > madarasas. This is what I have been made to believe that there are 0.5 > million madarasses in Pakistan. Do we need a school inspector to tell > us that they don't teach Dr. Iqbal's poetry ! > > Gopi Chand Narang, a prominent Iqbal scholar says that there are > thousands of titles on Iqbal in theacademic world but just one or two > on his poetry. So now, is it fair to conclude that Dr. Iqbal's poetry, > which was difficult anyway, was not the priority of people at helm > in 1947 after the creation of Pakistan. > So, it is quite reasonable to believe that average Pakistani is > innocent, caught between the Army, dynasty rule, Mullahism and > poverty. > > What can Indian do? Not to hate the common Pakistani, in the least…. > > Having said all this, I again want to come back to Dr. Iqbal's poetry: > his intense urge to control the word. It was perhaps, pointed out by > Goethe, that the inherent musicality in the verses of Quran is the > reason for its followers to believe in it, endlessly. Poets too have > been trying to achieve that magical effects in their verses, sources > of which are cosmic/unknown. See Ghalib, Aatey hein gaib say yeh > mazameen khayal mein, Ghalib sareeray nama nawaya sarosh hai. ( these > couplets are coming from unknown sources, and the sound in my pen is > of angle's ) How similar. In another couplet Ghalib says that he > yearns for a home parallel to Heaven but not the one made by God ) . > Sufi poetry is full of such fantasies and thoughts which I cherish. > Dr. Iqbal was intensely trying to achieve that magical effect without > undermining the authority of sacred book Quran. He had perhaps no > need to write poetry if there was not a strong tradition of writing > poetry in Islamic world. If the agenda was simply to spread the > message of Prophet Mohammad he could have written some easy prose, or > moved from village to village and helped people to understand Islam. > But he wanted to satisfy his inner urge to sit in the company of great > poets like Ghalib and all thegalaxy of other urdu poets, and for that > reason alone he wrote verses, I believe. He knew he could not achieve > the genius of Ghalib but he had no choice because he had absorbed all > the Persian and Urdu poetry, mixed it with western philosophy. I think > the times were such that he could not ignore politics of his times. > > with love and peace > inder salim > …………………………………………………….. > here is Dr. Iqbal > Upon the death of Queen Victoria in 1901, Dr. Iqbal penned an > epicedium of ten pages, entitled 'Tears of Blood', from which we give > a few verses below. The Queen died on the day of Eid-ul-Fitr, and > Iqbal wrote: > "Happiness came, but grief came along with it, Yesterday was Eid, but > today came muharram [month of the year associated with the deepest > mourning for Muslims] > "Easier than the grief and mourning of this day, Would be the coming > of the morn of the day of judgment. > "Ah! the Queen of the realm of the heart has passed away, My scarred > heart has become a house of mourning. > "O India, thy lover has passed away, She who sighed at thy troubles > has passed away. > "O India, the protective shadow of God has been lifted from above you, > She who sympathised with your inhabitants has gone. > "Victoria is not dead as her good name remains, this is the life to > whomever God gives it. > "May the deceased receive abundant heavenly reward, and may we show > goodly patience." > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:17:27 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:17:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Achutanandan For those who HATE Pakistan Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812022047t4ccdbc0fo9d117c4be3d8f5f7@mail.gmail.com> Inder, Pls don't teach us your communist agenda. We know what to love and how. We have seen how your shameless Achudanadan insulted the family of a martyr by his 'dog' comment. Non of the shamelss commies have come forward in this list to condemn it. Cadres like Achutanandan & his likes should be pushed in the Arabian Sea , so that they may swim as far as cuba. Shame to Achutanandan , Shame for Indians that was caused by this veteran communist. And look how Karat & Yechury tried to avoid media ,.,.... Mr Salim, pls don't preach us , preach your comrades or else go for that long swim. Pawan On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:28 PM, inder salim wrote: > Dear All, > I am not even a smallest scholar of Dr. Iqbal, the great poet, but > 'the present' tempts me to write a bit on the times he lived in, > mainly because he was the real force behind Jinnah to push Pakistan > Agenda. It is more interesting also because all the people connected > with partition had something to do with Western thought. Whether > Tagore was ae se force behind Gandhi or not but his desire for recognition > by the West was ultimate, and so was Iqbal's urge to learn western > Philosophy. Gandhi himself had a shallow ( old Testament like ) > outlook on sexuality, temple art and a shallow understanding of > class. See, how Gandhi trusted Nehru, and how Iqbal trusted Jinnah, > both well versed in western philosophy. Not surprising that all the > four were lawyers, and deeply interested in politics. > > When Queen of England died in 1901, Dr. Iqbal wrote both in prose > and verse in her honour, which he much later regretted. ( see text at > the page's bottom ) .He was deeply interested in politics, and even > won an election by a huge margin. He was indeed a great poet, but what > was his real dream? His influence was Rumi, the great Persian Sufi > Saint poet, but did he end up as a Sufi poet or a deep analyst-admirer > of Holy Book Quran? He admired Ghalib, although ironically he > criticized him for his poems written in honour of British Lords. But > Ghalib was honest, perhaps, this couplet would come to his defence.( > kay who nimrod ki khudayee thee, bandgee mein mera bhala na huva ). I > don't know if Dr Iqbal had ever written so lucidly, which he himself > knew. ( andazey Bayan agarchi mara shok nahi hai… who mazhab…. Yeh > mazhab….( my passion is not to chase poetry for some style…., that > religion….this religion ) which is acutely contrary to Ghalib's. > Meanwhile Ghalib thought his verse is beautiful only because of sufi > saint Hazrat Khusroo, and so Nizammudin Aulia as well. > > Having said all this so hurriedly, we can never run the genius of Dr. > Iqbal and we need to understand him from various angles. It is also > true he was disillusioned with Jinnah's political procedures, but he > had no alternatives, and he was himself so lazy to address the > gatherings himself. He perhaps, could not decide whether he was poet > or a philosopher. I guess he could have done much better as a poet if > had relinquished his obsession of Nietzsche ( Khudi ko kar buland > itna… ) see his style of moustaches and those of Nietzche's ( may be > just a coincidence ) > > By laziness, I mean he loved to live life in style, whether it was > dresses or food or travelling abroad and falling in love with European > ladies. He was keenly interested in what was happening politically, > here back home. > > He was always in politics, and commented on this or that even when he > was not in great health just few years before his death in 1938. > It must have been because of his dream for Pakistan that he openly > opposed to the Ahmadiyya movement in 1935, but he was true admirer > of the same in 1911. Whether that was a threat or not but certainly he > tried to quash any other representation to the idea of unity of > Muslim. So, Muslim League was the only instrument he believed in. > There must be hundreds of such points which can paint Dr. Iqbal badly, > but this is not my intention here. Here my interest is to > investigate the reasons why the original dream of a new Islamic > nation failed to move. Dr. Iqbal knew that his forefathers were > Kashmiri Brahmins, but what mattered for him was his idea of > restoration of Muslim Past, which was indeed glorious in parts, here > or there. Was that not possible to cherish along with Hindus ? I > guess it was, but, was Gandhi's love for Lord Ram too much for him to > consider that possibility. The reason for his early love for Hazrat > Mirza Ghulam Mohammad ( 1835-1908, the founder of Ahmediyyas ) was > because of his open criticism of Christians and Arya Samjis. His later > criticism of Ahmediyyas was because it consolidated as a sect. > > But he himself says that Hazrat Mirza was the truest admirer of > Quran. But that was before, now he saw a chance for all the Muslims > of India to realize his dream, with a tremendous Islamic past as > heritage, and with a real Prophet as messiah of compassion and > simplicity. But Pakistan was not meant for that. It was not even about > Dr. Iqbal's whatever dream, but it was about power, it was about > British design to divide the subcontinent for their own gains. > > See how difficult is the vocabulary in his verses. Without luggat ( > dictionary ) it is damn impossible to understand the philosophy hidden > in his verses which in anyway is hugely inspired by Islamic holy > scriptures. How a simple peasant, uprooted from Bihar and Punjab could > have made his poetry as their ideal for future life. For a typical > Punjabi there was a great folk culture , music and poetry, for a > Sindhi and Bengali it was his own and so on… He certainly was quite > sophisticated for an ordinary Muslim to follow. > > Dr. Iqbal is in his Mausoleum, and Mr. Jinnah is thinly visible in > the Pakistani currency notes. Who sings Iqbal in Pakistan, none, other > than a sufi who has read Bange-Dara. His poetry is lasting as and when > he comes out of the pretension of being a philosopher. A peasant, a > labourer, a simple factory worker or a clerk is hardly aware about Dr. > Iqbal. It is too difficult, that must be the inner reality in > Pakistan. > > Since 1947, it was indeed the new green flag with crescent on it which > must have driven masses to love Pakistan. Next, it must be Army and > their vested interests which are holding Pakistan. And above all, it > must be Anglo-American foreign policies that support the idea of > Pakistan. Dr. Iqbal's dream for a new Islamic world in this > subcontinent was bound to create this fundamentalism, because if the > poet-philosopher is difficult then people indeed look for a cheap > maulana to guide their destinies. That is what is happening in > madarasas. This is what I have been made to believe that there are 0.5 > million madarasses in Pakistan. Do we need a school inspector to tell > us that they don't teach Dr. Iqbal's poetry ! > > Gopi Chand Narang, a prominent Iqbal scholar says that there are > thousands of titles on Iqbal in theacademic world but just one or two > on his poetry. So now, is it fair to conclude that Dr. Iqbal's poetry, > which was difficult anyway, was not the priority of people at helm > in 1947 after the creation of Pakistan. > So, it is quite reasonable to believe that average Pakistani is > innocent, caught between the Army, dynasty rule, Mullahism and > poverty. > > What can Indian do? Not to hate the common Pakistani, in the least…. > > Having said all this, I again want to come back to Dr. Iqbal's poetry: > his intense urge to control the word. It was perhaps, pointed out by > Goethe, that the inherent musicality in the verses of Quran is the > reason for its followers to believe in it, endlessly. Poets too have > been trying to achieve that magical effects in their verses, sources > of which are cosmic/unknown. See Ghalib, Aatey hein gaib say yeh > mazameen khayal mein, Ghalib sareeray nama nawaya sarosh hai. ( these > couplets are coming from unknown sources, and the sound in my pen is > of angle's ) How similar. In another couplet Ghalib says that he > yearns for a home parallel to Heaven but not the one made by God ) . > Sufi poetry is full of such fantasies and thoughts which I cherish. > Dr. Iqbal was intensely trying to achieve that magical effect without > undermining the authority of sacred book Quran. He had perhaps no > need to write poetry if there was not a strong tradition of writing > poetry in Islamic world. If the agenda was simply to spread the > message of Prophet Mohammad he could have written some easy prose, or > moved from village to village and helped people to understand Islam. > But he wanted to satisfy his inner urge to sit in the company of great > poets like Ghalib and all the galaxy of other urdu poets, and for that > reason alone he wrote verses, I believe. He knew he could not achieve > the genius of Ghalib but he had no choice because he had absorbed all > the Persian and Urdu poetry, mixed it with western philosophy. I think > the times were such that he could not ignore politics of his times. > > with love and peace > inder salim > …………………………………………………….. > here is Dr. Iqbal > Upon the death of Queen Victoria in 1901, Dr. Iqbal penned an > epicedium of ten pages, entitled 'Tears of Blood', from which we give > a few verses below. The Queen died on the day of Eid-ul-Fitr, and > Iqbal wrote: > "Happiness came, but grief came along with it, Yesterday was Eid, but > today came muharram [month of the year associated with the deepest > mourning for Muslims] > "Easier than the grief and mourning of this day, Would be the coming > of the morn of the day of judgment. > "Ah! the Queen of the realm of the heart has passed away, My scarred > heart has become a house of mourning. > "O India, thy lover has passed away, She who sighed at thy troubles > has passed away. > "O India, the protective shadow of God has been lifted from above you, > She who sympathised with your inhabitants has gone. > "Victoria is not dead as her good name remains, this is the life to > whomever God gives it. > "May the deceased receive abundant heavenly reward, and may we show > goodly patience." > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:20:05 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:20:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812022050l54e9d135wca4cce6df4b2dde7@mail.gmail.com> Naeem , Be assured...non of commies and liberals would try to correct you........And if they would they wouldn't be intellectual liberals.... Pawan On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world > has overlooked the nation's problems. > > By Asra Q. Nomani > December 1, 2008 > > The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet > morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & > Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of > violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines > recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my > ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste > traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. > > "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in > the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care > of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is > the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. > > Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd > captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more > than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. > But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly > turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my > relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from > anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. > > India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example > of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. > My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My > parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father > pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's > successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show > it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. > > But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of > Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was > deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and > businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had > deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless > and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, > when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with > bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. > > Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years > ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing > for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly > resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of > Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a > depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims > live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." > > According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former > Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than > the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. > > Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. > > Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. > > Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. > > While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of > India's prison population. > > Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. > > The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to > remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action > programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in > place. > > Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would > be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was > hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out > in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join > militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as > inspiration. > > What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over > India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary > William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the > U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic > and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the > socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said > that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of > Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of > stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in > the country. > > India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim > population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million > Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or > the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 > million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, > social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we > would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the > national security of not just India but the United States. > > Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for > danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my > mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A > Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal > reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the > location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of > Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They > found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. > > Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's > Struggle for the Soul of Islam." > > > Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: > > http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 10:23:21 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:23:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Stand up and be counted Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812022053y6107c101h440323d37e0d9d27@mail.gmail.com> http://www.dailypioneer.com/139117/Stand-up-and-be-counted.html *Those who can't protect India must go* Where does one start after such a terrible tragedy? It has been five days since the dastardly attacks on our land. We are trying to dust off, stand up and move on. Move on, we will. But forget we will not. Forget we should not. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. We all need to remember this and other previous heinous attacks on our freedom and make sure that we keep our blood warm. Time has come when we just cannot move on with our lives and take pride in our resilience and the so-called 'spirit'. Yes, we are proud of our resilience and spirit but that does not mean that we give a limitless 'licence to kill' to these Islamic terrorists. It is a shameful act that a dozen odd Islamic terrorists could inflict such damage to our city of Mumbai and it took three full days to flush out these inhumane Islamic terrorists. I will not blame the security forces. They did the best they could do with the available resources. They fought round-the-clock for 60 odd hours and saved many innocent lives. But for their valour, dedication and commitment, we would have lost many more lives. I salute them. The blame for this heinous crime against humanity falls squarely on the Government of the day. It is the politicians who have made a huge mess of our great nation. The politicians are busy feathering their nests while the nation's security system is rotting. It is unfortunate that the Indian Government is run by selfish and corrupt politicians who will not see beyond their nose. All that matters to them is their political power. More than two years have passed since a series of terror attacks rocked us and nothing has changed. Terrorist attacks have continued. Loss of innocent lives has continued. And politicians' senseless speeches and promises have continued. Even today, if common men, women and children of this great nation do not take charge, politicians will continue to play the same game -- the game they have mastered pretty well. Even today, politicians of all hue and colour are trying to gain political mileage out of this tragedy. While all this happened, politicians warmed their hands. Please do not get swayed by politicians and their speeches. It would have make no difference whosoever stayed in power. No one is different. They are all made of the same material. Just the party name and symbols are different. Time has come to speak up, stand up and be counted. Time has come for common Indians to take a stand and root out the corrupt politicians. Time has come for honest and decent Indians to take charge and be part of the political process. Time has come for a new progressive party "Common Indians" made up of common Indians for whom all that matters is India. These common Indians have to take charge and decide the destiny of the India of future -- a stronger India, a self-sufficient India, a proud self-respecting India. Time has come to throw away the veil of political correctness that has made most of our politicians incompetent and impotent. Time has come to call these terrorists what they are -- barbarians, inhumane, and Islamic terrorists. Time has come to stand up against bullying by any other nation, Eastern or Western. Time has come to first stand up for India and then worry about others' interests. Time has come to stop all appeasement policies. Time has come to implement a uniform civil code in the country. Time has come to strengthen the nation as one strong united nation without any special status to any particular State. Time has come to teach Pakistan a lesson -- a lesson that should be the last lesson this failed country will get. Time has come to destroy the failed nation of Pakistan because its mere existence is inimical to the rest of the world. If its leaders cannot take care of the Islamic terrorist factories and Islamic *jihadi*s it has been producing, then India needs to take action and root out the evil. We cannot let this festering wound continue to bleed us and our future generations. It has to stop. Enough is enough. Let all Indians stand up, be counted and take charge. It is our time. The author of this article maybe reached at lalitkoul at yahoo.com From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 11:41:46 2008 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:41:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812022050l54e9d135wca4cce6df4b2dde7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <188178.71349.qm@web94710.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Following comments on this article I found very interesting  a must read   vedavati   Asra is a lier/Cheap publicty seeker. Lot of poor muslims grown up to elites like sharuk, abdul kalam etc. No Hindus discriminate them. My muslim classmate's rich family r doctors but he always supports Pakistan and he never respects India. Many in jail means ...many are doing sin rather good work and living in mainstream. Don't propagate in negative way. There are many Hindus ready to die for Abdul Kalam....no one thinking about his religion. I wonder how you are still thinking in your blackmail way even after you raised in US. when will you liberate your mind. Submitted by: Vels 11:47 AM PST, December 1, 2008 2. "My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class." How did they make it in India?? - By being educated. Lack of education in the Muslim community is the problem not the Indian secular democracy. Submitted by: Anonymous 11:46 AM PST, December 1, 2008 3. LA times..please show a little sensitivity. I am an Indian who almost had her friend killed at the Taj. We are baffled, shocked and angry beyond belief. Give us some time to heal and get rid of the anger before hurriedly inviting Naussbaum and others to write about why--after the dust has settled--Muslims are still victims and need our "understanding". Have patience with us...we will return to our apathetic lives and forget about all this..in the meantime, just dont add salt to our wounds. maybe you can just keep quite...like many of the Muslims in this country. Submitted by: sapec 11:39 AM PST, December 1, 2008 4. By the way, what about the roles of Muslims in remaining backward? Their neighborhoods are the dirtiest, crime rates are the highest, illiteracy rates are high and the Muslim girl-child is abused by the Muslim male. This is sadly true all over India. What about lack of responsible behavior by Muslims themselves all over India? The LA Times should be ashamed of publishing a bogus and immature article. Couldn't you find someone more mature and honest in giving a balanced, point-of-view? What world is this guy/woman living in? Submitted by: This column is intelectually bogus 11:36 AM PST, December 1, 2008 5. This deeply demented notion that Muslims are untouchables in India is not only wrong but disingenuous and the author is engaging in intellectual flatulence, with all due respect. Muslims in India have unfortunately abused their women-folk and thei religious leaders, in order to be relevant, have strived hard to cut average Muslims from the mainstream. People of all religions, castes and regions are struggling in India. This is not particularly pervasive only in Muslims. Please do not engage in such erroenoeus claims. Submitted by: This column is intelectually bogus 11:36 AM PST, December 1, 2008 6. Please tell me what country in the world gives special privileges to its minorities like India has? Hell, we even split our motherland to India and Pakistan (and later, Bangladesh) to appease Muslims. What else do Muslims want, I ask you in exasperation??? Submitted by: This column is intelectually bogus 11:36 AM PST, December 1, 2008 7. 2. Muslims have their own civil law. Indian civil law is not applicable to them. This means, under the guise of this law, Muslims continue to abuse their womens's rights, for decades. 3. Muslims have "reservations" per Govt regulations and laws in all kinds of educational institutions, all over the country. 4. We have had Muslim presidents, powerful politicans, cricket players, movie stars, business people and educated middle class all over the nation. Submitted by: This column is intelectually bogus 11:36 AM PST, December 1, 2008 8. With all due respect to the writer, let me let your American readers a little known fact or two: 1. The annual Haj pilgrimage for all Indian Muslims is footed by the Indian taxpayer (including people of all religions). No Hindus or Christians or Jains or Buddhists are giving this pecial treatment.. Submitted by: This column is intelectually bogus 11:35 AM PST, December 1, 2008 9. I would like to know why people move, in large numbers, to countries with different cultures than theirs? Do they want to be assimilated into the country, or are they hoping for a bloodless coup once their numbers are sufficient? I mean, really, check out the country you want to emigrate to, and if the conditions are not to your liking, STAY HOME! In America, the natives,(anyone born here), share a culture and language, and a secular government. if you need to speak Spanish, or live under a theocracy, STAY HOME! Immigrants show up late for the buffet, and then whine that all the shrimp are gone. Submitted by: Dean 11:29 AM PST, December 1, 2008 10. why is it always the fault of the host country, not matter where they are, who have not assimilated the muslim population? In Great Britain the Indian Hindu, Sikh, and Chrisitan populations have integrated into society just fine, and in some cases are considered a great example of a minority population who have integrated into the UK. Yet it is the Pakistani Muslims who lage behind in education, salary etc...and you surely saw how they coordinated the very same terrorist groups in Pakistan as they blew themselves up on the London Tubes and Buses. Submitted by: Vijay 11:24 AM PST, December 1, 2008 page 1 of 5 1   2   3   4   5 Next >> ADVERTISEMENT --- On Wed, 3/12/08, Pawan Durani wrote: From: Pawan Durani Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' To: "Naeem Mohaiemen" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008, 12:50 PM Naeem , Be assured...non of commies and liberals would try to correct you........And if they would they wouldn't be intellectual liberals.... Pawan On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' > The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world > has overlooked the nation's problems. > > By Asra Q. Nomani > December 1, 2008 > > The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet > morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & > Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of > violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines > recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my > ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste > traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report. > > "Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in > the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care > of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is > the myth of India's thriving secular democracy. > > Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd > captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more > than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. > But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly > turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my > relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from > anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists. > > India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example > of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. > My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My > parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father > pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's > successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show > it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4. > > But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of > Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was > deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and > businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had > deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless > and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, > when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with > bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination. > > Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years > ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing > for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly > resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of > Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a > depressing effect on their p syche," the report said, noting Muslims > live in "a sense of despair and suspicion." > > According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former > Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than > the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. > > Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. > > Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women.. > > Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. > > While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of > India's prison population. > > Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs. > > The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to > remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action > programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in > place. > > Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would > be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was > hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out > in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join > militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as > inspiration. > > What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over > India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary > William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the > U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic > and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the > socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said > that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of > Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of > stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in > the country. > > India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim > population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million > Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or > the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 > million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, > social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we > would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the > national security of not just India but the United States. > > Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for > danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my > mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A > Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal > reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the > location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of > Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They > found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai. > > Asra Q. Nomani is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's > Struggle for the Soul of Islam." > > > Please click the following link and read the comments on above article: > > http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oew-nom1-2008dec01,0,2169717.graffitiboard > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From geetaseshu at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 11:43:21 2008 From: geetaseshu at gmail.com (geeta seshu) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:43:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] media coverage of Wednesday Mumbai attacks In-Reply-To: <6353c690812020518p1c948231oa4938585db7255d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6df6732b0812020331m329da137p2173dba6f4bc1421@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812020518p1c948231oa4938585db7255d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6df6732b0812022213h44b4bdb7y843653c3d4e53987@mail.gmail.com> Well, Thanks for adding other names to the list of television journalists...and yes, some of them did do good work under duress. As a print journalist, I could reach out to so many of these young television journalists who had to grow up overnight. But about Simi Garewal's comments - they aren't true or accurate. The flags are green with the crescent moon but that's markedly different from the Pak flag which has a thick white strip running vertically to the left - check it out if you doubt me. Also, Ms Garewal has apologised for her remarks: Bollywood's veteran actress Simi Garewal, who kicked up a storm with her comment on a TV show that slums in Mumbai can be seen sporting Pakistani flags, has apologised, saying she was wrong and stood corrected. "I was wrong on that count and I apologise for that. In the slums near the Race Course in Mahalaxmi in central Mumbai which I was talking about, they sport Islamist flags; and you know it closely resembles the Pakistani flag. This was pointed out to me by somebody. So, I say sorry and stand corrected," Garewal told IANS, after Mumbai's 60-hour terror siege in which at least 183 people were killed. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=7c1cc86a-d51d-4211-8b7a-e4fa7b0c4cce&&Headline=I+say+sorry+and+stand+corrected%3a+Simi+Garewal + You've raised a good question when you ask who represents Mumbai. I would imagine that, at a simple level, everyone who lives in this city and who cares for it. But additionally, who speaks for Mumbai? And whose voice is being heard the most? That's a moot point, isn't it? Besides, I haven't heard the voice of one sane person who would defend terrorists. Most mature people can understand that they seek to divide and communalise situations even more than they already are. On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Its interesting to see how Simi Gerewal's words among other things, have > tasted bitter to a few. Truth has been always hard to accept. Anyways. > > 'Times Now' by far did the best reporting of the entire terror attack. Not > alone Mahrook. I'll begin with Arnab Goswami, who didn't mindlessly leave > for the venue as was done by 'Senior Editors" of at least four English and > Hindi front line channels. Times Now even had a brilliant panel for evening > discussions. Mature Investigative and Live Journalism was as well displayed > by Bhavtosh Singh and Arunodaya Mukherji crime reporters of Times Now and > CNN-IBN respectively. Also, to add in this list Jitender Dikshit of Star > News. > > A leading female journalist of much hyped 'pseudo-secular' channel tried > her > best to attract attention and lead way as the only so called mature and > intelligent figure around, but she failed miserable, she was lost in the > crowd of media. > > I salute the patience of these few mature journalists who undertook this > mission with great zeal and enthusiasm. Journalism is all about that > courage, honesty and right timing. > > Its surely easy to question. Though I still do be live that these are many > other negative patterns to it. Leading Hindi Channel (TRP wise) like last > time (Jammu Hostage crises) yet again interviewed terrorists live. By this > they not only gave these crackpots space on media but as well committed > blunder against security personnel's. > > Who really represents Mumbai ? Why are Simi Gerewal not an equal parts of > this great city ? It is unfortunate to mark this dividing line. At this > time > we should be united. On the contrary, we see people "unfortunate people' > who > mistakenly became Indians, defending Pakistan and even these terrorists > time > and again on TV Channels and even sometimes streets. This forum is quite > aware of such breed of people. > > 'Bharat Mata Ki Jai' is said in praise of this country and not against any > religion. It has no communal overtones. Please don't start crafting things. > We surely saw how people in thousands used this slogan to greet our brave > jawans who destroyed aims of these bloody terrorists. > > Lets act mature atleast at this time when we have lost just so many people. > > If not your conscience, atleast the innocent face, and cries of 2-year-old > Moshe orphaned in the attack on Nariman House where his Jewish parents > Rabbi > Gavriel Holtzberg and Rivka were killed from the bullets of terrorists, > should keep a filter in your mind. > > Thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On 12/2/08, geeta seshu wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm a print journalist based in Mumbai. I had a whole lot of problems too > > with television media coverage. Specifically: > > > > 1. India TV had background music in the midst of live coverage and began > > having commercial breaks too. India TV had an interview with a > 'terrorist' > > and its anchors were trying to argue with him as to why he was killing > all > > these people - even as the entire killing was on. While this is hugely > > debatable, what made it worse was that they announced a commercial break > in > > the middle of the 'conversation' with the terrorist. I waited to see if > it > > would resume but it never did and I learnt later that the government > leaned > > on the channel. > > > > 2. CNN-IBN was high octave and frenzied, save its young reporter (I think > > her name was Toral). I was told its head, Rajdeep Sardesai, even dragged > a > > Taj chef away from another channel for an interview while he was being > > interviewed! It was also very jingoistic - but that was the general trend > > of > > all the channels... > > > > 3. TV media,whether English or Hindi, concentrated on celebrities - we > had > > Shobha De or Simi Garewal in the english channels and Sanjay Dutt or some > > such film star in the hindi channels...these are hardly the > opinion-makers > > of Mumbai. yet, they were given undue importance and their views aired > for > > a > > long time. > > > > 4.Times Now (which otherwise did a great job thanks to that reporter at > Taj > > _Mahrook), went on and on that a war was on! Was that wise? An attack > which > > is confined to one part of the city - and i can vouch for the fact that > in > > Bandra, after the first day when people realised that no other > terroristst > > were at large and they were confined to the south mumbai area, it was > > business almost as usual! > > > > 5. What happened to the blasts at Vile Parle and Dockyard Road? How did > > they > > happen? Who were behind them....we are still clueless. > > > > 6. What is the involvement of D company...how much of his local network > was > > utilised for this operation? Why is the media silent on this or even on > his > > links with Sharad Pawar? > > > > 7. When Modi came to the Taj site, we saw this ridiculous image of him > > shooing aside some BJP chap who came to greet him, as he was blocking the > > television cameras...even priyanka kakodkar of NDTV had to crouch so as > to > > stay out of the camera's view of Modi....there was no attempt to on the > tv > > channels part to ay this was not an image worth focusing on - especially > > when the shooting was still on! He was utilising the media, and the media > > played along... > > > > Apart from the media coverage, I also have to add that the general > jingoism > > everywhere is hugely disturbing - RR Patil raises a slogan Bharat Mata Ki > > Jai and today, that's become the general slogan of all the citizens > groups > > that are going around lighting candles everyday. > > > > Of course, the college students who organised the march at Carter Road > were > > obviously too young to know the divisive way that slogan was used in the > > freedom movement and even during the 1991-92 riots in Mumbai and were > > saying > > Jai Hind too ! > > > > Generally, all the people one speaks to feel under attack and feel > > something > > must be done...few are clear what needs to be done. So, when people voice > > things like youth must get compulsory military training for a year or > wage > > war on Pakistan, no one gets a chance to counter it strongly enough. > > > > The NDTV Barkha Dutt show had Simi Garewal talking about Paki flags in > > slums > > near Four Seasons Hotel and now, DNA has a campaign called the 'Eyes and > > Ears' campaign (probably a take off from the Delhi police informers > > campaign)... > > > > So easy to see the right-wing rubbing their hands in glee and waiting for > > the harvest of blood and votes! > > > > Geeta > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 12:55:23 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:55:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Proud of a notion Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812022325ydc09cd0xf48aa674146b6ca8@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/proud-of-a-notion/393506/ If one can hopefully treat the Kerala chief minister's remarks as a one-off, the Mumbai tragedy has seen the continuation of the Left's efforts, including earlier ones by Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, to find a niche in the nationalist narrative. There was a time the Left was at best indifferent to what are broadly called national security matters or stories of patriotism. Recall the dismissive Left attitude to the investigation into the 1998 Coimbatore blasts. Marxists then sounded as if concerns over targeting senior political figures was just over-excited bunkum. That is why CPM General Secretary Prakash Karat's reference to Achuthanandan's "homage" to Sandeep Unnikrishnan is important. Clearly, the Left's attitude to the armed forces and national security is changing. But the Left's efforts are hobbled by three problems. First, the Left carries the intellectual baggage of Marxist internationalism. This has been discarded almost everywhere. But what Raul Castro doesn't want to talk about and China's ultra-nationalist communists hold in contempt still excites Left politicians in India. The second reason why the Left seldom sounds convincing in its periodic articulation of the idea of India is also thanks to theory. The "thinkers" in Delhi continue to be deeply suspicious of what they see as the nationalist project of "privileged classes". This theory comes up against two realities. Contrary to Marxist profundities, material conditions never wholly explain the alchemy of nationalism. Also, prosperity is increasing in India. Millions of people have been added to what is described roughly as the middle class, and in rural India the insufficient presence and therefore the hunger for, not indifference to, modernity set the social and political context. Class matters (so do, sadly, caste and religion), but what matters most is the demand for a ticket to modern India. The third problem with leftist attempts to speak authoritatively for India comes from praxis. The Left's electoral geography in India disincentivises a pan-national political view. Bengal and Kerala, mercifully, haven't been terrorist targets and so until recently the Left's responses to Terror lacked energy. Indeed, the Left has been more energetic on sub-nationalism — the Bengal CPM has in many ways articulated "Bengali" grievances against "centres of power". The silly interventions for Sourav Ganguly by Bengal CPM leaders speak of a deeper, quasi-chauvinistic impulse. The neglect in taking on extremist groups operating from Kerala is a more worrisome manifestation. It is in India's interest of course that the Left find a better nationalist voice. But it is even more in the Left's interest From kaiwanmehta at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 12:55:50 2008 From: kaiwanmehta at gmail.com (kaiwan mehta) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:55:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Try hating yourself... for once! In-Reply-To: <2482459d0812022257w15b3b710w56104edaab05686@mail.gmail.com> References: <2482459d0812022257w15b3b710w56104edaab05686@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2482459d0812022325m18e90885l8c5f2a44f9fccfba@mail.gmail.com> Well, to call terrorists 'Crackpots' is to begin with an irresponsible judgement of the situation! And no one in their sane minds would defend terrorists - but it would be a) myopic b) mis-judegement to blame these 10 individuals squarely for what happen... or to blame all those human individuals involved in similiar such incidents in our past and history of 'terrorism'. It is very important to realise that the men we see as terrorists, at the event and site of a terror attack are the final motifs of a political-cultural and economic structure that all of us belong to, and indulge in, and involve ourselves in. Why is the word 'terrorism' used only in the case of apparent political conflicts/demands, often coloured in religion? Why is it not terrorism, when the state brutally evacuates slum-dwellers? Why is not terrorism when SEZs are manipulated for clear economic and political calculations? Why is the middle-class not a terrorist when it is symbolically supporting economic (and religio-cultural) segregation, slum demolition, etc. in a city while shopping away at malls and lounging at multiplexes? Why is it not terrorism when a complete social class claims to be 'politically away', or wishes so, while they economically enjoy being pampered? Why is it not terrorism when an entire state machinery destroys a 'religion-identified' culture, its people, and then pacifies with 'development and result - oriented' economic model? Why is it not terrorism when careers and academic spaces are destroyed in the name of region and religion, or worse 'hurting sentiments'? To find a 'terrorist' in our classic 'other' is a very simple game! But it is an act of cowardice! Do we have the courage to point at ourselves and figure out how many times we have contributed to violence and corruption, by turning a blind eye to it, just because we did not wish to disturb our comfort zones? To be 'angry' at terrorists, is such a comfortable situation... try being angry with yourself! I have a feeling that we as a global political culture are getting very settled with the idea of 'terrorists', since we always have someone to identify as the 'bad guy'! It is very nice to have a readymade bad guy, so that all the bad I do is small and inconsequential to all that the bad 'other' does. And obviously I am 'holier than thou' while the corrupt world is 'out there'... I am clean, as long as I can identify 'another' as the vile object of corruption. From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Dec 3 12:54:03 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:54:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror Message-ID: Thinking Through the Debris of Terror Shuddhabrata Sengupta (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org) Last week's terror attacks on Mumbai, for which there can be no justification whatsoever, have targetted railway stations, restaurants, hospitals, places of worship, streets and hotels. These are the places in which people gather. where the anonymous flux of urban life finds refuge and sustenance on an everyday basis. By attacking such sites, the protagonists of the recent terror attack (like all their predecessors) echo the tropes of conventional warfare as it developed in the twentieth century. These tactics valued the objective of the escalation of terror and panic amongst civilians higher than they viewed the neutralization of strictly military or strategic targets. In a war without end, (which is one way of looking at the twentieth century and its legacy) panic is the key weapon and the most important objective. The terrorists who entered Bombay did not come to win, or even to leverage a coherent set of demands. Their only objective was panic. In that they succeeded, aided and abetted by those sections of the media who translated their actions through breathless, incessant and hysterical reportage. The history of the indiscriminate bombing of cities and inhabited tracts as acts of war in modern times (from Guernica in Spain to Dresden and London in the Second World War, to the bombing of Cambodia in the 70s and the attacks on Baghdad in the Iraq War) underscores the fact that the ultimate objective of contemporary military actions is not the destruction of military or state assets but the utter demoralization of the civilian population by deploying disproportionate and massive force against the softest of possible targets - unarmed, un-involved ordinary people. The terrorists who caused mayhem in Bombay, and their mentors, wheresoever they may lie, are no less remarkable in their lethal cynicism than those who sanctioned the bombing of Baghdad in recent times. They were interested in hurting people more than they were in tilting at the windmills of power. If we accept the conjecture that the attacks were authored by Islamist organizations based in Pakistan (which by itself is not unlikely), then we also have to accept the irony that in their actions they have mirrored and echoed the tactics of the military leadership of the great powers they decry as their adversaries. Terrorists and war criminals are replicas of each other. The difference between them is only a matter of degree.The students have learnt well from their teachers. No redemptive, just, honourable or worthwhile politically transformatory objectives can be met, or even invoked, by attacking a mass transit railway station, a restaurant, a hotel or a hospital. The holding of hostages in a centre of worship and comfort for travellers cannot and does not challenge any form of the state oppression anywhere. The terrorists (I unhesitatingly call them 'terrorists', a word which I am normally reluctant to use, because their objective was nothing other than the terror itself) who undertook these operations did not deal a single blow to the edifice of oppression in this country, or in any other country. On the other hand, they strengthened it. By helping to unleash calls for war, by eliminating (unwittingly perhaps) those that have been investigating the links between fringe far right groups and home grown terror, by provoking once again the demand for stronger and more lethal legislation for preventive detention (in the form of a revived or resuscitated POTA), these terrorists have done statist and authoritarian politics in India its biggest favour. The sinister and lunatic fringe of far right politics of the Hindutva variety (which seems to have acted hand in glove with rogue elements within the security establishment) in particular, must be delighted to have been gifted this latest horror on a platter without having had to work hard for it. While the agents of the attack in Bombay may have been genuinely motivated by their own twisted understanding of Islam, they have demonstrated that they have no hesitation in putting millions of Indian Muslims in harms way by exposing them to the risk of a long drawn out of spiral of retaliation. We need to underscore that they killed 40 innocent, unarmed Muslims (roughly 20 % of the current total casualty figures of 179) while they unleashed their brutal force on Bombay. The terrorists who authored their deaths cannot by any stretch of imagination be seen as partisans or friends of Islam. They are the enemy of us all, and especially of those amoungst us who happen to be Muslims, for they jeopardize the safety and security of all Muslims in India by unleashing yet another wave of suspicion and prejudice against ordinary Muslims. Any effort to rationalize their actions by reference to real or perceived injustices to Muslims in India, is patronizing at best, and insensitive at worst. It is therefore neither surprising nor remarkable that several Muslim organizations and individuals in India have unanimously condemned the terror attacks and terrorism in general. The actions of the terrorists (their purported statements as aired on India TV notwithstanding) constitute an insult to anyone who is interested in seriously addressing the discrimination faced by minorities in India. What is particularly reprehensible about the terrorist's actions is their choice to target and kill unarmed Jewish travellers, a rabbi and his wife. This choice was not accidental, these people were targetted because of their religious affiliation and their ethnic origins. The anti-semitic edge of contemporary Islamic Fundamentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with any opposition to the oppressive policies and practices of the state of Israel towards Palestinians. Targetting Jews (who may or may not be Israeli) or individuals who happen to be Israeli in a house of Jewish worship in Mumbai for the actions of the State of Israel is not unlike attacking Carribean Hindus and Hindu Indians at a Hindu temple in Trinidad for real or imagined misdemeanours of the Republic of India. It would be similar to attacking ordinary Indian, Pakistani or Somali Muslims and Iraqis in retribution for the offences committed by the erstwhile Ba'athist government of Iraq on Kurds. The Israeli government treats Palestinians in occupied Palestine a shade better than Saddam Hussain's Iraq treated Kurds. (Settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, though they have no doubt borne the brunt of Israeli state terror, have not to my knowledge been gassed by chemical weapons). Islamic fundamentalist anti-semitism is as much an abomination as Hindu, Christian or Jewish Fundamentalist or Secular Islamophobia anywhere in the world. One of the theories doing the rounds of the underbelly of blogs and mailing lists is that of 'Mossad-CIA' involvement in the attacks on Bombay. While I have no doubt at all about the fact that organizations such as the Mossad and the CIA are murderous and unscrouplous in terms of their day to day operational existence and that they have an active and corrosive agenda in South Asia. I find the theory of their involvement in the Bombay terror attacks as far fetched as the assumption that the Indian Ocean Tsunami was a result of a Mossad-RAW conspiracy to test secret undersea weapons. Such theories, which are closely related to the '9/11 was a Mossad job' kind of wild conjecture, are a species of denial, and are often propogated by credulous commentators and politicans, particularly in the Muslim world (and their non-Muslim sympathisers), with a view to maintaining the myth of the eternally victimised and wronged Muslim. Such unsubstantiated conjectures and allegations do not help Muslims in any way. On the contrary their whimsical non-seriousness perpetuates the conditions that undermine responsible non-xenophobic Muslim points of view from being taken seriously. Having said all this (which I believe is necessary to say), it is equally important to address several other serious issues that have raised their ugly heads in the aftermath of the attack on Bombay. The aftermath of the terrible recent events in Bombay contains a great deal of debris. A spell of terror destroys so much, so quickly. A lot gets damaged by violence. Lives are shattered, walls and roofs collapse, entire neighbourhoods get devastated. Cities, sometimes the populations of countries, find what gets called their 'spirit' broken. But one thing stays intact, and on occasion even finds new strength. This one thing is a sense of wounded innocence, and the search for easy fixes and answers. There can be nothing more dangerous at present than this deadly combination of injured innocence and glib macho loose talk. I would like to spend some time looking at the sources and consequences of two specific kinds of loose talk which I will address in turn. 1. War Mongering: The Indian state is an injured and innocent party, and an attack like this gives India the right to conduct a military campaign, even war, against Pakistan to finish once and for all, the scourge of terrorism. As the botoxed visage of Simi Garewal screamed on 'We the People' broadcast on NDTV two evenigns ago 'Carpet Bomb those parts of Pakistan..." 2. Islamophobia : We can understand everything about the motives and drives of the terrorists by pointing to their 'Muslim' identity. A variant of this is - 'The Quran sanctions violence against unbelievers, and that is all that we need to know in order to understand the roots of the attacks in Bombay'. This kind of sentiment is burgeoning on the internet, where it feeds the testosterone overdrive of a certain kind of overzealous netizen who sees the tragedy that has befallen Bombay as an opportunity to put out a sick and prejudiced agenda. It should not come as a surprise that often, the two come linked. The idiotic and jejune militarist fantasies of the hard Hindutva right are a public secret. However, there are also many card carrying secular nationalist 'war mongers' who see the times we are living through as an opportunity to exhibit how much more 'patriotic' they can be than their communal peers. Of course, these attitudes have their exact mirrors in Pakistan. And a peculiar mirroring is currently underway between Indian and Pakistani news channels, with news anchors such as the hysterical Arnab Goswami (Times Now TV) in India and his counterparts in Pakistan indulging in a perverse and dangerous game of jingoistic one-upmanship. Even retired senior officers of the armed forces who are sought out for comment and analysis in television studios and politicians of parties such as the BJP (neither of whom are necessarily known as models of moderation) are acting with greater restraint than sections of the electronic media. They (the BJP politicians) are at least at present not rushing to talk of war (how could they, they have an election to contest in a few months time, and an Indo-Pak military standoff that could work to the advantage of the incumbent UPA government could really upset their best calculatons). The retired soldiers by and large, speak wisely of avoiding military options as far as is possible. It is only the few news anchors who have let their place in the spotlights go to their heads, (and their adolescent online clones) who are consistently maintaining the shrilness of war-talk. Those speaking of war or punitive military strikes base their arguments on the 'enough is enough' theory, that time has now come to deal Pakistan a hard blow as a punitive action against letting its territory being used against India. This line of reasoning assumes that India is cast as the eternal victim and can never be seen as the aggressor. If this is so, then (following this line of thiking) there is no reason why India too should not have been carpet bombed for allowing the use of its territory and resources for acts of terror against its neighbours. The memory of news anchors may be as brief as the punchy headlines of breaking news, but even a cursory examination of recent history would show that the Indian state and elements within India have sinned as much as they have been sinned against. In May 1984, for instance, the LTTE (at that time housed, armed, funded and nourished by the Indian state led by Indira Gandhi) conducted a brutal slaughter of around one hundred and twenty unarmed and peaceful Buddhist pilgrims in and around one of Sri Lanka's holiest Buddhist shrines in Anuradhapura. The Anuradhapura Massacre caused great anguish and outrage in Sri Lanka at that time, and if we accept the principles that prompt our 'studio-warriors' and 'online dharamyoddhas' to call for the carpet-bombings of parts of Pakistan then we have to admit that it was unfortunate that Sri Lanka did not carpet bomb Delhi and Chennai. Perhaps as the comparatively militarily weaker neighbour of mighty India, it may have found itself reluctant to imagine, let alone carry out such a bizarre threat. Clearly, the nuclear fuelled fantasies of militarist Indians brook no such reasons for reticence. I wonder whether it is amnesia and the lack of a moral-ethical sense that underwrites Indian militarism or is it the intoxication of arrogant militarism that induces this dystopic inability to either remember ones own state's history of complicity in terror or to behave ethically and reasonably in times of crisis. Further, should a professional investigation into the devastating attack on the Samjhauta Express train to Pakistan reveal that the perpetrators of the attack were Hindu radicals assisted by rogue elements within the military intelligence apparatus in India, would Pakistan then be justified in 'carpet bombing' Pune, indore, Jammu and other places linked to the cluster of organizations and individuals around outfits such as 'Abhinav Bharat'? A military adventure into Pakistani held territory by Indian forces at this current juncture can be nothing short of a disaster, It risks taking South Asia and the world to the precipice of a nuclear conflict. It has been pointed out by some idiots on television that the United States is apparently safer today for having sent troops to fight into Afghanistan and Iraq. The truth is, the United States has made the world and Americans a great deal more unsafe , and a great deal more vulnerable to terrorism, by the conduct of its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The incidence of terrorism worldwide has increased due to its intervention, and even the attacks on Bombay can in a sense be seen as ricocheting off the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. The deliberate targeting of British and American individuals by the terrorists in Bombay last week demonstrates how unsafe it is to be seen carrying an American passport today. If India is to be pulled headlong into conflict with Pakistan as a result of the fall out of the attacks on Bombay, the world will automatically and immediately become a far more unsafe place. There will be more, not less terrorism for us all to deal with. The only way for us to defeat terrorism in South Asia is for ordinary Indians and Pakistanis to join hands across the Indo-Pak divide to say that they will no longer tolerate the nurturing of terror, hate and division in their societies through the covert and overt acts of rogue elements in both their governments (which have a vested interest in the continuity of conflict) and powerful non-state actors in both societies. Neither POTA, nor military misadventures, nor harder borders can defeat terrorism. A suicide bomber can only be disarmed by the narrowing of the political and cultural space for hatred within society to levels of utter insignificance. For this to occur, we all need to shed the cocoons of the assumptions of our own innocence. The sooner we do so, the sooner we realize that culpability in terror in South Asia is not a one way street with all signs pointing only in the direction of Pakistan, the better it will be for peace in our time. The automatic assumption of our own innocence, especially at times when we perceive ourselves to the be victims, is something we cannot afford to do. Whatever little illusory comfort it may give us in the short run, it will rebound to haunt us with unforgiving intensity. I f we are serious about putting an end to the seemingly endless spiral of retributive violence behind us we have to exercise the hard and necessary choice of leaving the discourse of 'martyrs', 'victims', 'villains' and 'heroes' behind us. The media, and especially the electronic media have a special role to play in this regard. They have much introspection to do. It will not do to have jingoist anchors and commentators protect their diminishing intelligence and rising moral culpability in stoking the flames of war themselves with the fig leaf of 'national psyche' and 'popular sentiment'. It is they who fashion the chimera of 'popular sentiment' with their spin doctoring, and it is unacceptable to see people refuse to take responsibility for the very serious consequences of this dangerous spin. Finally, I come to the question of whether there is anything specifically 'Islamic' about acts of terrorism such as we have witnessed in Bombay last week. Under normal circumstances, such ridiculous questions would not need any attention. Unfortunately, these are not normal circumstances, and it is at times such as these, that otherwise marginal irresponsibly articulated opinions get a disproportionate velocity due to the way in which they circulate, particularly on the internet and then leak out into the grit of innuendo, insinuation, half-informed speculation and rumour in daily conversation. One particularly pernicious communication that has been doing the rounds of chain mails, and has already begun cropping up in blog posts and discussion lists is the familiar litany of - "There are suras (chapters) in the Quran that justify the slaughter of unbelievers and what the terrorists were doing was only fulfilling the commands of their faith". This kind of response asks us to assume two things, One, that the source of the motivation for the terrorists actions was predominantly scriptural (this bases itself somewhat on the scripture laden rhetoric and vocabulary of the so-called 'Indian Mujahideen' terror emails that accompanied previous attacks this year) Secondly, that if as a believing Muslim you do not follow quranic injunctions to unleash violence, you are at best an insincere or inconsistent Muslim, and the only true Muslim is the one who kills unbelievers to earn his place in heavan. The first reduces the speechless complexity of a terrorists actions to a few pithy and selectively quoted phrases. The second is an insult to the lives, actions and convictions of the absolute majority of believing Muslims. Both betray a singular and profound ignorance of Islam, of the concept of jihad within Islam and an unwillingness to engage with Islamic belief and the history of Islamicate societies. This(completely erroneously) view of all Muslims as mindless 'holy warriors' takes the injunctions to do with the term 'jihad' (which translates, not as 'holy war' as is commonly thought, but as 'struggle') as referring solely to acts of violence. It needs to be stated here, once again, as has been stated many times before,in many different contexts, that 'jihad' within the theological context of Islam is of two kinds, and that only one of these refers to the conduct of armed struggle. The greater and more commendable jihad is that which involves a personal struggle with one's own baser and unethical propensities, which every believing Muslim is asked to conduct as a spiritual cleansing process. The 'lesser jihad' concerns specifically defensive military acts conducted against aggressors as a last resort, when all else fails. The Quran is replete with statements such as 'to you your religion and to me mine', or 'there can be no compulsion in religion'. When the adherents of other religions are specifically mentioned by name (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) it is said - "Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabeans (the followers of St. John the Baptist or Hazrat Yahya) - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord, they have nothing to fear or to regret". (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:62) Jews are invoked as 'the children of Israel (Bani Israil) and in the Quran, Allah only asks of them that they remain true to their faith. There is not a trace of anti-semitism in the Quran. When certain Jews are spoken of negatively, the statements echo the admonitions of the Jewish scriptures by saying that 'those amongst the people of the book who were of little faith' were worthy of God's disfavour. Clearly, this indicates that 'those amongst the people of the book who were NOT of little faith' are to be favoured, and in fact Allah is heard saying in the Quran - "O Children of Israel, remember the favours I have bestowed upon you, keep to your covenant, and I will keep to mine". (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:40) It is important to keep this in mind specifically with regard to the special targeting of unarmed Jews by the terrorists in Bombay. Their acts, in this specific instance stand in direct contradiction to the spirit of the Quran. While there are anti-semitic traces in the Ahadis (the reported traditions of the prophet that were accumulated and collated over the centuries), there is no unanimity or consensus amongst believing Muslims about the authenticity of different 'isnads' (lines of transmission) attatched to different Ahadis. Therefore, in instances of ambiguity, as with regard to the attitude to Jews and those of other faiths, it is only the unquestioned authority of the Quran that can be seen as acting as the final arbiter and guide. From this standpoint alone, the anti-semitic edge of the terrorists actions in Bombay last week can be justifiably condemned as anathema by all believing Muslims. Generally speaking, the quote that is most commonly hurled by Islamophobes is - "Kill them wherever you find them, drive them out of the places from which they drove you" (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). This verse was given to the prophet Mohammad before the advent of a major battle when all attempts at arriving at peaceful negotiations had been exhausted, and when the Prophet and his fledgeling community in Medina were in danger of being exterminated by invasive aggression. The injunctions are specific, they apply only to retaliation against armed bodies of men who have acted as aggressors. What is omitted when these verses are hurled, either by Islamophobes, or by Islamists, is that they follow immediately from the injunction that says - "fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressor" (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). It is also followed by the equally specific injunction "but if they mend their ways, know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.. but if they mend their ways, fight none other than the evil-doers." (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). So, we have repeated caveats, repeated qualifications - 'do not be the aggressor', 'fight only if they fight you', 'cease armed action if they see reason' that immediately surround the quote that is so often pulled out at times like this like a tired rabbit from a magicians hat. And yet, the sleight of hand continues. By what stretch of imagination can a chef's assistant in a hotel, or a rabbi's wife, or passengers trying to get to second class railway carriages or children who live on the street, ordinary Muslims, or police officers trying to investigate the terrorist outrages purportedly undertaken by radicals who happen to be Hindus with a view to intimidating ordinary Muslims be seen as 'aggressors' against Islam? By which Quranic injunction can we justify acts of aggression against such individuals? Once again, by their concrete actions, the terrorists have demonstrated not their fidelity, but their sharp deviance from the letter and spirit of the Quran. Those motivated and prejudiced slanderers who circulate the insinuations about the 'Islamic' provenance of the terrorists actions are actually just as much guilty of spreading a mistaken understanding of Islam as the terrorists themselves. In fact, objectively, once again, Isamophobes and Islamists, are not advesaries, but allies. The lineage of the terrorists who attacked Bombay is better traced to those vicious acts of twentieth and twenty-first century terror which feature self styled protagonists of all the faiths and ideologies that mark our modern world. They are to be found as much amongst the New Age-Buddhist-Hindu hybrid of Aum Shirin Kyo, the Branch Davidians, the Balinese Hindu vigilantes who slaughtered 40,000 unarmed Indonesian Communists and their suspected sympathisers in 1965, the ultra-left and far-right radicals of West Germany, Japan and Italy in the seventies and the hardened callousness of Palestinian, Egyptian, Israeli, Peruvian, Basque and Irish terrorism as much as it is to be located in the enigmas known as the LTTE (all factions) , the Lashkar-e- Taiba, Jaish-e- Mohammad, HUJI, Indian Mujahideen and Al-Qaida. Each of these organizations has contributed more than anything else to the hardening of structures of state power. As such, they, like the Indian Maoists and Salwa Judum , and the ingredients of the alphabet soup of insurgent and counter- insugent outfits operating through the length and breadth of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma are the objective agent-provcateurs of reactionary, authoritarian, statist politics. Terrorism, whatever else it may be, is in the end, the mightiest secret weapon in the arsenal of the state to beat and badger a terrified population into meek submission by creating a situation where the surrender and abdication of civil rights is seen as a normalized and natural response to a mounting crisis. Even a brief history of the limited genre of terrorist actions such as 'hotel bombings and attacks' reveals a rainbow hued ecumenical pantheon of contemporary terror. The attacks on the Taj and the Obeori Trident (which constituted the spectacular telegenic apex of the Bombay attacks) need to be seen as successors to the Marriott Hotel bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan of only a few months ago, the bombings of the Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt and Days Inn Hotels in Amman, Jordan in 2005, the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton, UK by the Provisional IRA in 1984, the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in Sydney, Australia by suspected Ananda Marg radicals in 1978 and last, but certainly not the least, the King David Hotel Bombing in Jerusalem, (then Palestine) in 1946 carried out by Irgun, a terrorist organization wedded to the Zionist ideal of a Jewish state in Palestine. If hotel massacres were something like cricket scores, then we could say that the Bombay attacks have finally surpassed the hitherto all time high 'score' of the King David Hotel Massacre of 1946. The Irgun, a terrorist outfit espousing an ostensibly 'Jewish' and supposedly 'Zionist' cause had held till date the record of maximum caualties for this outrage. 93 dead. The Bombay attacks, apparently authored by militant Islamists, have gone higher. Those who identify terrorism with Islam today would find themselves faced with the uncomfortable fact that as far as the lethality of attacks go, the bar was raised early, and high, by self-styled 'Jewish freedom fighters' who counted amongst their ranks the then future prime minister of the state of Israel, Menahem Begin. The Islamists have once again proved how imitative they are of the militant far-right edge of Zionism. Again, the students have learnt well from their historical teachers. Begin (who is somewhat of an icon amongst many current islamophobic zealots of the 'war against terror' for the hard line that he took in Lebanon against the PLO ad its Lebanese allies and against violent as well as non violent forms of Palestinian resistance) is himself reported to have said while referring to the period in which the King David Hotel Massacre took place - "We actually provided the example of what the urban guerrilla is, we created the method of the urban guerrilla." - see - 'By Blood and Fire: The Attack on Jerusalem's King David Hotel' by Thurston Clarke, Hutchinson, 1981 To extrapolate from the specatcular successes of self styled 'Jewish' terrorism in Palestine under the British Mandate in the 1930s and 40s to a generalized theory of 'Jewish' Terrorism would have been as prejudiced and short sighted then (and many efforts were made in this direction) as the current efforts to give current global terror a 'Muslim' face are today. In fact the ancestors and first cousins of today's Islamophobic zealots are yesterday's and today's anti-semitic rabble rousers. Sometimes, at the outer edges and wild fringes of the global far right, they still do meet. The irony in the fact that here, they often find themselves in the convivial company of self styled 'Hindu', 'Christian', 'Neo-Nazi' and even 'Jewish' radicals is inescapable, whose agendas merge and diverge like the courses of unpredictable rivers. The 'Jewish' bombers who took down the King David Hotel in 1946 entered it carrying milk cans laden with explosives in the guise of 'Muslim Arab' milkmen. Reports of the earlier round of Malegaon and Nanded blasts featured instances of the possibility of 'Hindu' radicals donning fake beards and 'Muslim' guises to plant bombs. Reports of the recent Bombay attacks suggest that the 'Muslims' who entered the Taj and the Trident hotels wore red threads around their wrists and had smeared their foreheads with 'tilaks' in order to appear as 'Hindus'. What this 'tragedy of errors' suggests that as far as terrorists are concerned, identity is a masquerade. Jews and Hindus cross-dress as Muslims, Muslims appear in Hindu drag. In killing and dying, they cross the line and embrace the identity of the very other that they ostensibly hate. It is only we, the witnesses and the vicarious spectators of this masquerade, the rag- pickers in the debris of their actions, who obsess about the 'reality' of their identities. By doing this we follow what is scripted for our bit parts in this charade to the hilt. When the curtain calls come, we, the chorus, the extras, are all lined up behind the principal actors, taking a bow. They were their costumes, we are naked in our incredulity. The actions of a terrorist are neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Jewish, nor Christian, nor a Sikh, nor Communist, nor Anarchist, The terrorist is simply the emissary and executioner of of the mediocrity of organized violence, and an agent acting for a number of overlapping shadowy state and non-stage clients of different provenances, whose identities may be obscure even to him. This profound ambiguity, if nothing else, should prompt us to be moderate and reasonable in our responses to the spectacle of terror. To buy into its proffered illusion of certainty is perhaps one of the greatest signs of submission that we can offer to those who have nothing other than terror to give us. Surely, we can be more intelligent, imaginative, self-aware, sceptical and compassionate. The two most important things we need to do is to stay calm, and keep our doubts alive. END From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 13:50:36 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:50:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812030020y16a6d763w5c3a18a4745216f6@mail.gmail.com> Shuddha , Your mail seems to be apologetic.. You almost intend to defend Pakistan , Islamic terrorism , etc. Though non of us heave blamed an average muslim with being on side of Islamic terrorists , however the fact remains that Islamic terrorism does exist worldwide .....even in the communist country like China. The more you defend the wrong and more execuses are being created , all seem like it is to weaken the resolve to fight terror and its sponsors. Pls for this time .....let us fight terror.....dont weaken the Indians. Already pakistan has rejected the Indian demand of handing over terrorists...after insulting Indian PM by not sending ISI chief after agreeing to it first. Our war is not against any relegion ....it is against Pakistan and terror... Pawan On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Thinking Through the Debris of Terror > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org) > > Last week's terror attacks on Mumbai, for which there can be no > justification whatsoever, have targetted railway stations, > restaurants, hospitals, places of worship, streets and hotels. These > are the places in which people gather. where the anonymous flux of > urban life finds refuge and sustenance on an everyday basis. By > attacking such sites, the protagonists of the recent terror attack > (like all their predecessors) echo the tropes of conventional warfare > as it developed in the twentieth century. These tactics valued the > objective of the escalation of terror and panic amongst civilians > higher than they viewed the neutralization of strictly military or > strategic targets. In a war without end, (which is one way of looking > at the twentieth century and its legacy) panic is the key weapon and > the most important objective. The terrorists who entered Bombay did > not come to win, or even to leverage a coherent set of demands. Their > only objective was panic. In that they succeeded, aided and abetted > by those sections of the media who translated their actions through > breathless, incessant and hysterical reportage. > > The history of the indiscriminate bombing of cities and inhabited > tracts as acts of war in modern times (from Guernica in Spain to > Dresden and London in the Second World War, to the bombing of > Cambodia in the 70s and the attacks on Baghdad in the Iraq War) > underscores the fact that the ultimate objective of contemporary > military actions is not the destruction of military or state assets > but the utter demoralization of the civilian population by deploying > disproportionate and massive force against the softest of possible > targets - unarmed, un-involved ordinary people. The terrorists who > caused mayhem in Bombay, and their mentors, wheresoever they may lie, > are no less remarkable in their lethal cynicism than those who > sanctioned the bombing of Baghdad in recent times. They were > interested in hurting people more than they were in tilting at the > windmills of power. If we accept the conjecture that the attacks were > authored by Islamist organizations based in Pakistan (which by itself > is not unlikely), then we also have to accept the irony that in their > actions they have mirrored and echoed the tactics of the military > leadership of the great powers they decry as their adversaries. > Terrorists and war criminals are replicas of each other. The > difference between them is only a matter of degree.The students have > learnt well from their teachers. > > No redemptive, just, honourable or worthwhile politically > transformatory objectives can be met, or even invoked, by attacking a > mass transit railway station, a restaurant, a hotel or a hospital. > The holding of hostages in a centre of worship and comfort for > travellers cannot and does not challenge any form of the state > oppression anywhere. The terrorists (I unhesitatingly call them > 'terrorists', a word which I am normally reluctant to use, because > their objective was nothing other than the terror itself) who > undertook these operations did not deal a single blow to the edifice > of oppression in this country, or in any other country. On the other > hand, they strengthened it. By helping to unleash calls for war, by > eliminating (unwittingly perhaps) those that have been investigating > the links between fringe far right groups and home grown terror, by > provoking once again the demand for stronger and more lethal > legislation for preventive detention (in the form of a revived or > resuscitated POTA), these terrorists have done statist and > authoritarian politics in India its biggest favour. The sinister and > lunatic fringe of far right politics of the Hindutva variety (which > seems to have acted hand in glove with rogue elements within the > security establishment) in particular, must be delighted to have been > gifted this latest horror on a platter without having had to work > hard for it. > > While the agents of the attack in Bombay may have been genuinely > motivated by their own twisted understanding of Islam, they have > demonstrated that they have no hesitation in putting millions of > Indian Muslims in harms way by exposing them to the risk of a long > drawn out of spiral of retaliation. We need to underscore that they > killed 40 innocent, unarmed Muslims (roughly 20 % of the current > total casualty figures of 179) while they unleashed their brutal > force on Bombay. The terrorists who authored their deaths cannot by > any stretch of imagination be seen as partisans or friends of Islam. > They are the enemy of us all, and especially of those amoungst us who > happen to be Muslims, for they jeopardize the safety and security of > all Muslims in India by unleashing yet another wave of suspicion and > prejudice against ordinary Muslims. Any effort to rationalize their > actions by reference to real or perceived injustices to Muslims in > India, is patronizing at best, and insensitive at worst. > > It is therefore neither surprising nor remarkable that several Muslim > organizations and individuals in India have unanimously condemned the > terror attacks and terrorism in general. The actions of the > terrorists (their purported statements as aired on India TV > notwithstanding) constitute an insult to anyone who is interested in > seriously addressing the discrimination faced by minorities in India. > > What is particularly reprehensible about the terrorist's actions is > their choice to target and kill unarmed Jewish travellers, a rabbi > and his wife. This choice was not accidental, these people were > targetted because of their religious affiliation and their ethnic > origins. The anti-semitic edge of contemporary Islamic Fundamentalism > has nothing whatsoever to do with any opposition to the oppressive > policies and practices of the state of Israel towards Palestinians. > Targetting Jews (who may or may not be Israeli) or individuals who > happen to be Israeli in a house of Jewish worship in Mumbai for the > actions of the State of Israel is not unlike attacking Carribean > Hindus and Hindu Indians at a Hindu temple in Trinidad for real or > imagined misdemeanours of the Republic of India. It would be similar > to attacking ordinary Indian, Pakistani or Somali Muslims and Iraqis > in retribution for the offences committed by the erstwhile Ba'athist > government of Iraq on Kurds. The Israeli government treats > Palestinians in occupied Palestine a shade better than Saddam > Hussain's Iraq treated Kurds. (Settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, > though they have no doubt borne the brunt of Israeli state terror, > have not to my knowledge been gassed by chemical weapons). Islamic > fundamentalist anti-semitism is as much an abomination as Hindu, > Christian or Jewish Fundamentalist or Secular Islamophobia anywhere > in the world. > > One of the theories doing the rounds of the underbelly of blogs and > mailing lists is that of 'Mossad-CIA' involvement in the attacks on > Bombay. While I have no doubt at all about the fact that > organizations such as the Mossad and the CIA are murderous and > unscrouplous in terms of their day to day operational existence and > that they have an active and corrosive agenda in South Asia. I find > the theory of their involvement in the Bombay terror attacks as far > fetched as the assumption that the Indian Ocean Tsunami was a result > of a Mossad-RAW conspiracy to test secret undersea weapons. Such > theories, which are closely related to the '9/11 was a Mossad job' > kind of wild conjecture, are a species of denial, and are often > propogated by credulous commentators and politicans, particularly in > the Muslim world (and their non-Muslim sympathisers), with a view to > maintaining the myth of the eternally victimised and wronged Muslim. > Such unsubstantiated conjectures and allegations do not help Muslims > in any way. On the contrary their whimsical non-seriousness > perpetuates the conditions that undermine responsible non-xenophobic > Muslim points of view from being taken seriously. > > Having said all this (which I believe is necessary to say), it is > equally important to address several other serious issues that have > raised their ugly heads in the aftermath of the attack on Bombay. > > The aftermath of the terrible recent events in Bombay contains a > great deal of debris. A spell of terror destroys so much, so quickly. > A lot gets damaged by violence. Lives are shattered, walls and roofs > collapse, entire neighbourhoods get devastated. Cities, sometimes the > populations of countries, find what gets called their 'spirit' broken. > > But one thing stays intact, and on occasion even finds new strength. > This one thing is a sense of wounded innocence, and the search for > easy fixes and answers. There can be nothing more dangerous at > present than this deadly combination of injured innocence and glib > macho loose talk. > > I would like to spend some time looking at the sources and > consequences of two specific kinds of loose talk which I will address > in turn. > > 1. War Mongering: The Indian state is an injured and innocent party, > and an attack like this gives India the right to conduct a military > campaign, even war, against Pakistan to finish once and for all, the > scourge of terrorism. As the botoxed visage of Simi Garewal screamed > on 'We the People' broadcast on NDTV two evenigns ago 'Carpet Bomb > those parts of Pakistan..." > > 2. Islamophobia : We can understand everything about the motives and > drives of the terrorists by pointing to their 'Muslim' identity. A > variant of this is - 'The Quran sanctions violence against > unbelievers, and that is all that we need to know in order to > understand the roots of the attacks in Bombay'. This kind of > sentiment is burgeoning on the internet, where it feeds the > testosterone overdrive of a certain kind of overzealous netizen who > sees the tragedy that has befallen Bombay as an opportunity to put > out a sick and prejudiced agenda. > > It should not come as a surprise that often, the two come linked. The > idiotic and jejune militarist fantasies of the hard Hindutva right > are a public secret. However, there are also many card carrying > secular nationalist 'war mongers' who see the times we are living > through as an opportunity to exhibit how much more 'patriotic' they > can be than their communal peers. Of course, these attitudes have > their exact mirrors in Pakistan. And a peculiar mirroring is > currently underway between Indian and Pakistani news channels, with > news anchors such as the hysterical Arnab Goswami (Times Now TV) in > India and his counterparts in Pakistan indulging in a perverse and > dangerous game of jingoistic one-upmanship. Even retired senior > officers of the armed forces who are sought out for comment and > analysis in television studios and politicians of parties such as the > BJP (neither of whom are necessarily known as models of moderation) > are acting with greater restraint than sections of the electronic > media. They (the BJP politicians) are at least at present not rushing > to talk of war (how could they, they have an election to contest in a > few months time, and an Indo-Pak military standoff that could work to > the advantage of the incumbent UPA government could really upset > their best calculatons). The retired soldiers by and large, speak > wisely of avoiding military options as far as is possible. It is only > the few news anchors who have let their place in the spotlights go to > their heads, (and their adolescent online clones) who are > consistently maintaining the shrilness of war-talk. > > Those speaking of war or punitive military strikes base their > arguments on the 'enough is enough' theory, that time has now come to > deal Pakistan a hard blow as a punitive action against letting its > territory being used against India. This line of reasoning assumes > that India is cast as the eternal victim and can never be seen as the > aggressor. > > If this is so, then (following this line of thiking) there is no > reason why India too should not have been carpet bombed for allowing > the use of its territory and resources for acts of terror against its > neighbours. The memory of news anchors may be as brief as the punchy > headlines of breaking news, but even a cursory examination of recent > history would show that the Indian state and elements within India > have sinned as much as they have been sinned against. > > In May 1984, for instance, the LTTE (at that time housed, armed, > funded and nourished by the Indian state led by Indira Gandhi) > conducted a brutal slaughter of around one hundred and twenty unarmed > and peaceful Buddhist pilgrims in and around one of Sri Lanka's > holiest Buddhist shrines in Anuradhapura. The Anuradhapura Massacre > caused great anguish and outrage in Sri Lanka at that time, and if we > accept the principles that prompt our 'studio-warriors' and 'online > dharamyoddhas' to call for the carpet-bombings of parts of Pakistan > then we have to admit that it was unfortunate that Sri Lanka did not > carpet bomb Delhi and Chennai. > > Perhaps as the comparatively militarily weaker neighbour of mighty > India, it may have found itself reluctant to imagine, let alone carry > out such a bizarre threat. Clearly, the nuclear fuelled fantasies of > militarist Indians brook no such reasons for reticence. I wonder > whether it is amnesia and the lack of a moral-ethical sense that > underwrites Indian militarism or is it the intoxication of arrogant > militarism that induces this dystopic inability to either remember > ones own state's history of complicity in terror or to behave > ethically and reasonably in times of crisis. > > Further, should a professional investigation into the devastating > attack on the Samjhauta Express train to Pakistan reveal that the > perpetrators of the attack were Hindu radicals assisted by rogue > elements within the military intelligence apparatus in India, would > Pakistan then be justified in 'carpet bombing' Pune, indore, Jammu > and other places linked to the cluster of organizations and > individuals around outfits such as 'Abhinav Bharat'? > > A military adventure into Pakistani held territory by Indian forces > at this current juncture can be nothing short of a disaster, It risks > taking South Asia and the world to the precipice of a nuclear > conflict. It has been pointed out by some idiots on television that > the United States is apparently safer today for having sent troops to > fight into Afghanistan and Iraq. The truth is, the United States has > made the world and Americans a great deal more unsafe , and a great > deal more vulnerable to terrorism, by the conduct of its wars in Iraq > and Afghanistan. The incidence of terrorism worldwide has increased > due to its intervention, and even the attacks on Bombay can in a > sense be seen as ricocheting off the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. > The deliberate targeting of British and American individuals by the > terrorists in Bombay last week demonstrates how unsafe it is to be > seen carrying an American passport today. If India is to be pulled > headlong into conflict with Pakistan as a result of the fall out of > the attacks on Bombay, the world will automatically and immediately > become a far more unsafe place. There will be more, not less > terrorism for us all to deal with. > > The only way for us to defeat terrorism in South Asia is for ordinary > Indians and Pakistanis to join hands across the Indo-Pak divide to > say that they will no longer tolerate the nurturing of terror, hate > and division in their societies through the covert and overt acts of > rogue elements in both their governments (which have a vested > interest in the continuity of conflict) and powerful non-state > actors in both societies. Neither POTA, nor military misadventures, > nor harder borders can defeat terrorism. A suicide bomber can only be > disarmed by the narrowing of the political and cultural space for > hatred within society to levels of utter insignificance. > > For this to occur, we all need to shed the cocoons of the assumptions > of our own innocence. The sooner we do so, the sooner we realize that > culpability in terror in South Asia is not a one way street with all > signs pointing only in the direction of Pakistan, the better it will > be for peace in our time. The automatic assumption of our own > innocence, especially at times when we perceive ourselves to the be > victims, is something we cannot afford to do. Whatever little > illusory comfort it may give us in the short run, it will rebound to > haunt us with unforgiving intensity. I > > f we are serious about putting an end to the seemingly endless spiral > of retributive violence behind us we have to exercise the hard and > necessary choice of leaving the discourse of 'martyrs', 'victims', > 'villains' and 'heroes' behind us. The media, and especially the > electronic media have a special role to play in this regard. They > have much introspection to do. It will not do to have jingoist > anchors and commentators protect their diminishing intelligence and > rising moral culpability in stoking the flames of war themselves with > the fig leaf of 'national psyche' and 'popular sentiment'. It is they > who fashion the chimera of 'popular sentiment' with their spin > doctoring, and it is unacceptable to see people refuse to take > responsibility for the very serious consequences of this dangerous spin. > > Finally, I come to the question of whether there is anything > specifically 'Islamic' about acts of terrorism such as we have > witnessed in Bombay last week. Under normal circumstances, such > ridiculous questions would not need any attention. Unfortunately, > these are not normal circumstances, and it is at times such as these, > that otherwise marginal irresponsibly articulated opinions get a > disproportionate velocity due to the way in which they circulate, > particularly on the internet and then leak out into the grit of > innuendo, insinuation, half-informed speculation and rumour in daily > conversation. > > One particularly pernicious communication that has been doing the > rounds of chain mails, and has already begun cropping up in blog > posts and discussion lists is the familiar litany of - "There are > suras (chapters) in the Quran that justify the slaughter of > unbelievers and what the terrorists were doing was only fulfilling > the commands of their faith". This kind of response asks us to assume > two things, > > One, that the source of the motivation for the terrorists actions was > predominantly scriptural (this bases itself somewhat on the scripture > laden rhetoric and vocabulary of the so-called 'Indian Mujahideen' > terror emails that accompanied previous attacks this year) > > Secondly, that if as a believing Muslim you do not follow quranic > injunctions to unleash violence, you are at best an insincere or > inconsistent Muslim, and the only true Muslim is the one who kills > unbelievers to earn his place in heavan. > > The first reduces the speechless complexity of a terrorists actions > to a few pithy and selectively quoted phrases. The second is an > insult to the lives, actions and convictions of the absolute majority > of believing Muslims. Both betray a singular and profound ignorance > of Islam, of the concept of jihad within Islam and an unwillingness > to engage with Islamic belief and the history of Islamicate societies. > > This(completely erroneously) view of all Muslims as mindless 'holy > warriors' takes the injunctions to do with the term 'jihad' (which > translates, not as 'holy war' as is commonly thought, but as > 'struggle') as referring solely to acts of violence. It needs to be > stated here, once again, as has been stated many times before,in many > different contexts, that 'jihad' within the theological context of > Islam is of two kinds, and that only one of these refers to the > conduct of armed struggle. The greater and more commendable jihad is > that which involves a personal struggle with one's own baser and > unethical propensities, which every believing Muslim is asked to > conduct as a spiritual cleansing process. The 'lesser jihad' concerns > specifically defensive military acts conducted against aggressors as > a last resort, when all else fails. > > The Quran is replete with statements such as 'to you your religion > and to me mine', or 'there can be no compulsion in religion'. When > the adherents of other religions are specifically mentioned by name > (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) it is said - > > "Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabeans (the followers of St. John > the Baptist or Hazrat Yahya) - whoever believes in Allah and the Last > Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord, they > have nothing to fear or to regret". (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:62) > > Jews are invoked as 'the children of Israel (Bani Israil) and in the > Quran, Allah only asks of them that they remain true to their faith. > There is not a trace of anti-semitism in the Quran. When certain Jews > are spoken of negatively, the statements echo the admonitions of the > Jewish scriptures by saying that 'those amongst the people of the > book who were of little faith' were worthy of God's disfavour. > Clearly, this indicates that 'those amongst the people of the book > who were NOT of little faith' are to be favoured, and in fact Allah > is heard saying in the Quran - > > "O Children of Israel, remember the favours I have bestowed upon you, > keep to your covenant, and I will keep to mine". (Sura Baqarah - The > Cow - 2:40) > > It is important to keep this in mind specifically with regard to the > special targeting of unarmed Jews by the terrorists in Bombay. Their > acts, in this specific instance stand in direct contradiction to the > spirit of the Quran. While there are anti-semitic traces in the > Ahadis (the reported traditions of the prophet that were accumulated > and collated over the centuries), there is no unanimity or consensus > amongst believing Muslims about the authenticity of different > 'isnads' (lines of transmission) attatched to different Ahadis. > Therefore, in instances of ambiguity, as with regard to the attitude > to Jews and those of other faiths, it is only the unquestioned > authority of the Quran that can be seen as acting as the final > arbiter and guide. From this standpoint alone, the anti-semitic edge > of the terrorists actions in Bombay last week can be justifiably > condemned as anathema by all believing Muslims. > > Generally speaking, the quote that is most commonly hurled by > Islamophobes is - > "Kill them wherever you find them, drive them out of the places from > which they drove you" (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). This > verse was given to the prophet Mohammad before the advent of a major > battle when all attempts at arriving at peaceful negotiations had > been exhausted, and when the Prophet and his fledgeling community in > Medina were in danger of being exterminated by invasive aggression. > The injunctions are specific, they apply only to retaliation against > armed bodies of men who have acted as aggressors. > > What is omitted when these verses are hurled, either by Islamophobes, > or by Islamists, is that they follow immediately from the injunction > that says - > > "fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do > not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressor" (Sura > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > It is also followed by the equally specific injunction "but if they > mend their ways, know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.. but if > they mend their ways, fight none other than the evil-doers." (Sura > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > So, we have repeated caveats, repeated qualifications - 'do not be > the aggressor', 'fight only if they fight you', 'cease armed action > if they see reason' that immediately surround the quote that is so > often pulled out at times like this like a tired rabbit from a > magicians hat. And yet, the sleight of hand continues. > > By what stretch of imagination can a chef's assistant in a hotel, or > a rabbi's wife, or passengers trying to get to second class railway > carriages or children who live on the street, ordinary Muslims, or > police officers trying to investigate the terrorist outrages > purportedly undertaken by radicals who happen to be Hindus with a > view to intimidating ordinary Muslims be seen as 'aggressors' against > Islam? By which Quranic injunction can we justify acts of aggression > against such individuals? > > Once again, by their concrete actions, the terrorists have > demonstrated not their fidelity, but their sharp deviance from the > letter and spirit of the Quran. Those motivated and prejudiced > slanderers who circulate the insinuations about the 'Islamic' > provenance of the terrorists actions are actually just as much guilty > of spreading a mistaken understanding of Islam as the terrorists > themselves. In fact, objectively, once again, Isamophobes and > Islamists, are not advesaries, but allies. > > The lineage of the terrorists who attacked Bombay is better traced to > those vicious acts of twentieth and twenty-first century terror which > feature self styled protagonists of all the faiths and ideologies > that mark our modern world. They are to be found as much amongst the > New Age-Buddhist-Hindu hybrid of Aum Shirin Kyo, the Branch > Davidians, the Balinese Hindu vigilantes who slaughtered 40,000 > unarmed Indonesian Communists and their suspected sympathisers in > 1965, the ultra-left and far-right radicals of West Germany, Japan > and Italy in the seventies and the hardened callousness of > Palestinian, Egyptian, Israeli, Peruvian, Basque and Irish terrorism > as much as it is to be located in the enigmas known as the LTTE (all > factions) , the Lashkar-e- Taiba, Jaish-e- Mohammad, HUJI, Indian > Mujahideen and Al-Qaida. Each of these organizations has contributed > more than anything else to the hardening of structures of state > power. As such, they, like the Indian Maoists and Salwa Judum , and > the ingredients of the alphabet soup of insurgent and counter- > insugent outfits operating through the length and breadth of India, > Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma are the objective agent-provcateurs of > reactionary, authoritarian, statist politics. Terrorism, whatever > else it may be, is in the end, the mightiest secret weapon in the > arsenal of the state to beat and badger a terrified population into > meek submission by creating a situation where the surrender and > abdication of civil rights is seen as a normalized and natural > response to a mounting crisis. > > Even a brief history of the limited genre of terrorist actions such > as 'hotel bombings and attacks' reveals a rainbow hued ecumenical > pantheon of contemporary terror. The attacks on the Taj and the > Obeori Trident (which constituted the spectacular telegenic apex of > the Bombay attacks) need to be seen as successors to the Marriott > Hotel bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan of only a few months ago, the > bombings of the Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt and Days Inn Hotels in > Amman, Jordan in 2005, the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton, UK > by the Provisional IRA in 1984, the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in > Sydney, Australia by suspected Ananda Marg radicals in 1978 and last, > but certainly not the least, the King David Hotel Bombing in > Jerusalem, (then Palestine) in 1946 carried out by Irgun, a terrorist > organization wedded to the Zionist ideal of a Jewish state in Palestine. > > If hotel massacres were something like cricket scores, then we could > say that the Bombay attacks have finally surpassed the hitherto all > time high 'score' of the King David Hotel Massacre of 1946. The > Irgun, a terrorist outfit espousing an ostensibly 'Jewish' and > supposedly 'Zionist' cause had held till date the record of maximum > caualties for this outrage. 93 dead. The Bombay attacks, apparently > authored by militant Islamists, have gone higher. Those who identify > terrorism with Islam today would find themselves faced with the > uncomfortable fact that as far as the lethality of attacks go, the > bar was raised early, and high, by self-styled 'Jewish freedom > fighters' who counted amongst their ranks the then future prime > minister of the state of Israel, Menahem Begin. The Islamists have > once again proved how imitative they are of the militant far-right > edge of Zionism. Again, the students have learnt well from their > historical teachers. > > Begin (who is somewhat of an icon amongst many current islamophobic > zealots of the 'war against terror' for the hard line that he took in > Lebanon against the PLO ad its Lebanese allies and against violent as > well as non violent forms of Palestinian resistance) is himself > reported to have said while referring to the period in which the King > David Hotel Massacre took place - "We actually provided the example > of what the urban guerrilla is, we created the method of the urban > guerrilla." - see - 'By Blood and Fire: The Attack on Jerusalem's > King David Hotel' by Thurston Clarke, Hutchinson, 1981 > > To extrapolate from the specatcular successes of self styled 'Jewish' > terrorism in Palestine under the British Mandate in the 1930s and 40s > to a generalized theory of 'Jewish' Terrorism would have been as > prejudiced and short sighted then (and many efforts were made in this > direction) as the current efforts to give current global terror a > 'Muslim' face are today. In fact the ancestors and first cousins of > today's Islamophobic zealots are yesterday's and today's anti-semitic > rabble rousers. Sometimes, at the outer edges and wild fringes of the > global far right, they still do meet. The irony in the fact that > here, they often find themselves in the convivial company of self > styled 'Hindu', 'Christian', 'Neo-Nazi' and even 'Jewish' radicals is > inescapable, whose agendas merge and diverge like the courses of > unpredictable rivers. > > The 'Jewish' bombers who took down the King David Hotel in 1946 > entered it carrying milk cans laden with explosives in the guise of > 'Muslim Arab' milkmen. Reports of the earlier round of Malegaon and > Nanded blasts featured instances of the possibility of 'Hindu' > radicals donning fake beards and 'Muslim' guises to plant bombs. > Reports of the recent Bombay attacks suggest that the 'Muslims' who > entered the Taj and the Trident hotels wore red threads around their > wrists and had smeared their foreheads with 'tilaks' in order to > appear as 'Hindus'. What this 'tragedy of errors' suggests that as > far as terrorists are concerned, identity is a masquerade. Jews and > Hindus cross-dress as Muslims, Muslims appear in Hindu drag. In > killing and dying, they cross the line and embrace the identity of > the very other that they ostensibly hate. It is only we, the > witnesses and the vicarious spectators of this masquerade, the rag- > pickers in the debris of their actions, who obsess about the > 'reality' of their identities. By doing this we follow what is > scripted for our bit parts in this charade to the hilt. When the > curtain calls come, we, the chorus, the extras, are all lined up > behind the principal actors, taking a bow. They were their costumes, > we are naked in our incredulity. > > The actions of a terrorist are neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor > Jewish, nor Christian, nor a Sikh, nor Communist, nor Anarchist, The > terrorist is simply the emissary and executioner of of the > mediocrity of organized violence, and an agent acting for a number of > overlapping shadowy state and non-stage clients of different > provenances, whose identities may be obscure even to him. > > This profound ambiguity, if nothing else, should prompt us to be > moderate and reasonable in our responses to the spectacle of terror. > To buy into its proffered illusion of certainty is perhaps one of the > greatest signs of submission that we can offer to those who have > nothing other than terror to give us. Surely, we can be more > intelligent, imaginative, self-aware, sceptical and compassionate. > The two most important things we need to do is to stay calm, and keep > our doubts alive. > > END > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 14:08:05 2008 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:08:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorism or Tragicomedy? Message-ID: <341380d00812030038y38fa00fbv276e1585603291dc@mail.gmail.com> Terrorism or Tragicomedy? Free the Tarnac 9 Giorgio Agamben On the morning of November 11, 150 police officers, most of which belonged to the anti-terrorist brigades, surrounded a village of 350 inhabitants on the Millevaches plateau, before raiding a farm in order to arrest nine young people (who ran the local grocery store and tried to revive the cultural life of the village). Four days later, these nine people were sent before an anti-terrorist judge and "accused of criminal conspiracy with terrorist intentions." The newspapers reported that the Ministry of the Interior and the Secretary of State "had congratulated local and state police for their diligence." Everything is in order, or so it would appear. But let's try to examine the facts a little more closely and grasp the reasons and the results of this "diligence." First the reasons: the young people under investigation "were tracked by the police because they belonged to the ultra-left and the anarcho autonomous milieu." As the entourage of the Ministry of the Interior specifies, "their discourse is very radical and they have links with foreign groups." But there is more: certain of the suspects "participate regularly in political demonstrations," and, for example, "in protests against the Fichier Edvige (Exploitation Documentaire et Valorisation de l'Information Générale) and against the intensification of laws restricting immigration." So political activism (this is the only possible meaning of linguistic monstrosities such as "anarcho autonomous milieu") or the active exercise of political freedoms, and employing a radical discourse are therefore sufficient reasons to call in the anti-terrorist division of the police (SDAT) and the central intelligence office of the Interior (DCRI). But anyone possessing a minimum of political conscience could not help sharing the concerns of these young people when faced with the degradations of democracy entailed by the Fichier Edvige, biometrical technologies and the hardening of immigration laws. As for the results, one might expect that investigators found weapons, explosives and Molotov cocktails on the farm in Millevaches. Far from it. SDAT officers discovered "documents containing detailed information on railway transportation, including exact arrival and departure times of trains." In plain French: an SNCF train schedule. But they also confiscated "climbing gear." In simple French: a ladder, such as one might find in any country house. Now let's turn our attention to the suspects and, above all, to the presumed head of this terrorist gang, "a 33 year old leader from a well-off Parisian background, living off an allowance from his parents." This is Julien Coupat, a young philosopher who (with some friends) formerly published Tiqqun, a journal whose political analyses – while no doubt debatable – count among the most intelligent of our time. I knew Julien Coupat during that period and, from an intellectual point of view, I continue to hold him in high esteem. Let's move on and examine the only concrete fact in this whole story. The suspects' activities are supposedly connected with criminal acts against the SNCF that on November 8 caused delays of certain TGV trains on the Paris-Lille line. The devices in question, if we are to believe the declarations of the police and the SNCF agents themselves, can in no way cause harm to people: they can, in the worst case, hinder communications between trains causing delays. In Italy, trains are often late, but so far no one has dreamed of accusing the national railway of terrorism. It's a case of minor offences, even if we don't condone them. On November 13, a police report prudently affirmed that there are perhaps "perpetrators among those in custody, but it is not possible to attribute a criminal act to any one of them." The only possible conclusion to this shadowy affair is that those engaged in activism against the (in any case debatable) way social and economic problems are managed today are considered ipso facto as potential terrorists, when not even one act can justify this accusation. We must have the courage to say with clarity that today, numerous European countries (in particular France and Italy), have introduced laws and police measures that we would previously have judged barbaric and anti-democratic, and that these are no less extreme than those put into effect in Italy under fascism. One such measure authorizes the detention for ninety-six hours of a group of young – perhaps careless – people, to whom "it is not possible to attribute a criminal act." Another, equally serious, is the adoption of laws that criminalize association, the formulations of which are left intentionally vague and that allow the classification of political acts as having terrorist "intentions" or "inclinations," acts that until now were never in themselves considered terrorist. ** *Libération*, November 19, 2008 From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 14:13:16 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:13:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] I am a typical mouse from Mumbai Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812030043j1fa771a1y8b894a8f93860b0e@mail.gmail.com> http://india-in-my-nightie.blogspot.com/2008/12/letter-editor-mumbai-times-of-india.html From navayana at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 14:43:11 2008 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:43:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Navayana-Sarai Talk-2, Bhagwan Das on 11 Dec Message-ID: Navayana-Sarai Lecture # 2 Bhagwan Das will speak on Ambedkar, Gandhi and Today's Dalit Movement 11 Dec, 3.30 p.m. at Seminar Room, Sarai-CSDS Bhagwan Das, 81, worked as a research associate with Dr B.R. Ambedkar in 1956. In the 1960s, two decades before the Maharashtra government began to publish the writings and speeches of Ambedkar, Das edited, compiled and produced the four-volume Thus Spoke Ambedkar series under the imprint of Bhimpatrika Publications, Jullunder. Born in Jutogh, Shimla, in 1927, Das joined Ambedkar's Scheduled Caste Federation at the age of 16. Working for the Royal Indian Air Force as a radio officer during World War II, he dreamt of becoming a pilot but could not muster the Rs 5,000 that was required for training in London. Das then worked in the Labour Department following a chance meeting with Ambedkar in Shimla in 1943 when the latter was Labour Member of the Viceroy's Executive Council. After his marriage, Das resumed his education, did an MA in History from Punjab University and LLB from Delhi University. He then practised as an advocate in the Supreme Court. In 1970, he attended the World Conference on Religion for Peace held in Kyoto as a Buddhist delegate. In August 1983, supported by a coalition of dalit organisations, Bhagwan Das gave a testimony on untouchability before the UN subcommission on human rights in Geneva. He subsequently addressed the 1984 World Conference on Religion and Peace at Nairobi, Kenya, much against the wishes of the official Indian delegation at the conference. Das' first article appeared in Kranti, an Urdu newspaper from Lahore edited by Sant Ram of the Jat Pat Todak Mandal, in the 1940s. Das has since published in various journals including in the Economic and Political Weekly ("Moments in a History of Reservations", 28 Oct 2000). Some of Bhagwan Das' many books include: Ambedkar on Gandhi and Gandhism. (Ed.) Main Bhangi Hoon (Hindi) Untouchables in the Indian Army Mandal Commission and the Future of Backward Classes Ravidasis and Balmikis of North India Navayana is currently making a documentary film on this pioneering activist, publisher and scholar. A 15-minute excerpt from the film, where Das dwells on Ambedkar and Gandhi, will be screened ahead of Das' talk. www.navayana.org Sarai-CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines, Delhi 110054 -- Navayana Publishing E-92 Second Floor Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 14:54:10 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 01:24:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Hotel Taj : icon of whose India ? (Gnani Sankaran) Message-ID: <384367.3424.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Received this piece as a forward. Not been able to locate where it was first published/featured.   Gnani writes """ It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people, that the terrorists chose to strike."   Kshmendra   "Hotel Taj : icon of whose India ?"   "Gnani Sankaran- Tamil writer, Chennai."   Watching at least four English news channels surfing from one another during the last 60 hours of terror strike made me feel a terror of another kind. The terror of assaulting one's mind and sensitivity with cameras, sound bites and non-stop blabbers. All these channels have been trying to manufacture my consent for a big lie called - Hotel Taj the icon of India.   Whose India, Whose Icon ?   It is a matter of great shame that these channels simply did not bother about the other icon that faced the first attack from terrorists - the Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) railway station. CST is the true icon of Mumbai. It is through this railway station hundreds of Indians from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Tamilnadu have poured into Mumbai over the years, transforming themselves into Mumbaikars and built the Mumbai of today along with the Marathis and Kolis   But the channels would not recognise this. Nor would they recognise the thirty odd dead bodies strewn all over the platform of CST. No Barkha dutt went there to tell us who they were. But she was at Taj to show us the damaged furniture and reception lobby braving the guards. And the TV cameras did not go to the government run JJ hospital to find out who those 26 unidentified bodies were. Instead they were again invading the battered Taj to try in vain for a scoop shot of the dead bodies of the page 3 celebrities.   In all probability, the unidentified bodies could be those of workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh migrating to Mumbai, arriving by train at CST without cell phones and pan cards to identify them. Even after 60 hours after the CST massacre, no channel has bothered to cover in detail what transpired there.   The channels conveniently failed to acknowledge that the Aam Aadmis of India surviving in Mumbai were not affected by Taj, Oberoi and Trident closing down for a couple of weeks or months. What mattered to them was the stoppage of BEST buses and suburban trains even for one hour. But the channels were not covering that aspect of the terror attack. Such information at best merited a scroll line, while the cameras have to be dedicated for real time thriller unfolding at Taj or Nariman bhavan.   The so called justification for the hype the channels built around heritage site Taj falling down (CST is also a heritage site), is that Hotel Taj is where the rich and the powerful of India and the globe congregate. It is a symbol or icon of power of money and politics, not India. It is the icon of the financiers and swindlers of India. The Mumbai and India were built by the Aam Aadmis who passed through CST and Taj was the oasis of peace and privacy for those who wielded power over these mass of labouring classes. Leopold club and Taj were the haunts of rich spoilt kids who would drive their vehicles over sleeping Aam Aadmis on the pavement, the Mafiosi of Mumbai forever financing the glitterati of Bollywood (and also the terrorists) , Political brokers and industrialists.   It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people, that the terrorists chose to strike.   The terrorists have understood after several efforts that the Aam Aadmi will never break down even if you bomb her markets and trains. He/she was resilient because that is the only way he/she can even survive.   Resilience was another word that annoyed the pundits of news channels and their patrons this time. What resilience, enough is enough, said Pranoy Roy's channel on the left side of the channel spectrum. Same sentiments were echoed by Arnab Goswami representing the right wing of the broadcast media whose time is now. Can Rajdeep be far behind in this game of one upmanship over TRPs ? They all attacked resilience this time. They wanted firm action from the government in tackling terror.   The same channels celebrated resilience when bombs went off in trains and markets killing and maiming the Aam Aadmis. The resilience of the ordinary worker suited the rich business class of Mumbai since work or manufacture or film shooting did not stop. When it came to them, the rich shamelessly exhibited their lack of nerves and refused to be resilient themselves. They cry for government intervention now to protect their private spas and swimming pools and bars and restaurants, similar to the way in which Citibank, General Motors and the ilk cry for government money when their coffers are emptied by their own ideologies.   The terrorists have learnt that the ordinary Indian is unperturbed by terror. For one whose daily existence itself is a terror of government sponsored inflation and market sponsored exclusion, pain is something he has learnt to live with. The rich of Mumbai and India Inc are facing the pain for the first time and learning about it just as the middle classes of India learnt about violation of human rights only during emergency, a cool 28 years after independence. And human rights were another favourite issue for the channels to whip at times of terrorism.   Arnab Goswami in an animated voice wondered where were those champions of human rights now, not to be seen applauding the brave and selfless police officers who gave up their life in fighting terorism. Well, the counter question would be where were you when such officers were violating the human rights of Aam Aadmis. Has there ever been any 24 hour non stop coverage of violence against dalits and adivasis of this country?   This definitely was not the time to manufacture consent for the extra legal and third degree methods of interrogation of police and army but Arnabs don't miss a single opportunity to serve their class masters, this time the jingoistic patriotism came in handy to whitewash the entire uniformed services.   The sacrifice of the commandos or the police officers who went down dying at the hands of ruthless terrorists is no doubt heart rending but in vain in a situation which needed not just bran but also brain. Israel has a point when it says the operations were misplanned resulting in the death of its nationals here.   Khakares and Salaskars would not be dead if they did not commit the mistake of traveling by the same vehicle. It is a basic lesson in management that the top brass should never t ravel together in crisis. The terrorists, if only they had watched the channels, would have laughed their hearts out when the Chief of the Marine commandos, an elite force, masking his face so unprofessionally in a see-through cloth, told the media that the commandos had no idea about the structure of the Hotel Taj which they were trying to liberate. But the terrorists knew the place thoroughly, he acknowledged.   Is it so difficult to obtain a ground plan of Hotel Taj and discuss operation strategy thoroughly for at least one hour before entering? This is something even an event manager would first ask for, if he had to fix 25 audio systems and 50 CCtvs for a cultural event in a hotel. Would not Ratan Tata have provided a plan of his ancestral hotel to the commandos within one hour considering the mighty apparatus at his and government's disposal? Are satelite pictures only available for terrorists and not the government agencies ? In an operation known to consume time, one more hour for preparation would have only improved the efficiency of execution.   Sacrifices become doubly tragic in unprofessional circumstances. But the Aam Aadmis always believe that terror-shooters do better planning than terrorists. And the gullible media in a jingoistic mood would not raise any question about any of these issues.   They after all have their favourite whipping boy - the politician the eternal entertainer for the non-voting rich classes of India.   Arnabs and Rajdeeps would wax eloquent on Nanmohan Singh and Advani visiting Mumbai separately and not together showing solidarity even at this hour of national crisis. What a farce? Why can't these channels pool together all their camera crew and reporters at this time of national calamity and share the sound and visual bites which could mean a wider and deeper coverage of events with such a huge human resource to command? Why should Arnab and Rajdeep and Barkha keep harping every five minutes that this piece of information was exclusive to their channel, at the time of such a national crisis? Is this the time to promote the channel? If that is valid, the politician promoting his own political constituency is equally valid. And the duty of the politican is to do politics, his politics. It is for the people to evaluate that politics.   And terrorism is not above politics. It is politics by other means. To come to grips with it and to eventually eliminate it, the practice of politics by proper means needs constant fine tuning and improvement. Decrying all politics and politicians, only helps terrorists and dictators who are the two sides of the same coin. And the rich and powerful always prefer terrorists and dictators to do business with.   Those caught in this crossfire are always the Aam Aadmis whose deaths are not even mourned - the taxi driver who lost the entire family at CST firing, the numerous waiters and stewards who lost their lives working in Taj for a monthly salary that would be one time bill for their masters.   Postscript: In a fit of anger and depression, I sent a message to all the channels, 30 hours through the coverage. After all they have been constantly asking the viewers to message them for anything and everything. My message read: I send this with lots of pain. All channels, including yours, must apologise for not covering the victims of CST massacre, the real mumbaikars and aam aadmis of India. Your obsession with five star elite is disgusting. Learn from the print media please. No channel bothered. Only srinivasan Jain replied: you are right. We are trying to redress balance today. Well, nothing happened till the time of writing this 66 hours after the terror attack. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 15:00:42 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:00:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] British Biased Corporation? Terrorists in London, gunmen in Mumbai Message-ID: <6353c690812030130gffa5406w7e8db138a4390072@mail.gmail.com> British Biased Corporation? Terrorists in London, gunmen in Mumbai *Mihir S. Sharma * - Indian Express Posted: Dec 03, 2008 at 0119 hrs IST Link - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/british-biased-corporation-terrorists-in-london-gunmen-in-mumbai/393560/ *New Delhi:* The BBC, attempting to appear unbiased, has laid itself open to accusations of bias. A group of politicians in the UK's ruling Labour party have questioned the BBC's use — or its decision to avoid using — the word "terrorist" to describe the 10 men responsible for nearly 200 deaths in Mumbai and calling them "gunmen" or "militants" instead. One of them, Steve Pound, who represents the South Asian-heavy constituency of Ealing North in the British Parliament, said in a statement released to news agencies that it was "the worst sort of mealy-mouthed posturing." The BBC has faced this accusation before: following the July 7, 2005 bombings of the public transport system in London, the perpetrators were described by correspondents as "terrorists"; until, that is, reactions from across the world that detailed how the broadcaster, seemed to be hypocritical in calling those bus bombers in London terrorists, but people who did an identical act in Northern Ireland or Peru "bombers" or "militants". Later, BBC chairman Michael Grade told BBC's Today programme that the broadcaster should have called the July 7 bombers terrorists because they were universally viewed as such within the corporation. BBC is state-owned but independently run. Its guidelines say that the "terrorist" word is not banned, but should be used "sparingly" and that a bare reporting of facts could be a "barrier rather than an aid to understanding" and "undermine" the news organisation's "credibility". The ultimate decision, they say, is the editor's and the correspondent's. Which may explain why British editors after the 7/7 attacks used the word "terrorist" for considerably longer than they did after the attacks in Mumbai. Since then, however, the BBC says it has been particularly circumspect, choosing to avoid making an editorial call for as long as possible on whether something is terrorism or not. The report archived on the BBC website with the earliest time-stamp, in fact, chooses to call the Mumbai attackers gunmen in most places, and "suspected terrorists" in one — perhaps because the context of the latter is the measures the police said they were taking to contain them. In comparison, the BBC took several days to make the same leap after the London terrorist attacks. Such decisions are generally made by the London-based editorial corps; those members of the Indian bureau as well as some London-based correspondents who were contacted were unwilling to speak on record. The London-based BBC press office, however, told The Indian Express: "We are not calling them freedom fighters. We are calling them 'bombers' or 'militants'. The fact is terrorist does not have a universal meaning. It translates as freedom fighters in certain languages. We are not alone in not calling them terrorists." It also appears that the BBC's Hindi and Urdu services are much more willing to use the word than the flagship English-language service. CNN, too, took an early editorial call about the use of the word: the attackers are described as "terrorists" in most archived news stories. Of course, all major international bodies have described what happened as "terrorist" attacks: the UN Security Council's statement called them "reprehensible acts of terrorism". When asked at what point the consensus that the act was terrorism and that the actors were terrorists would become so overwhelming that choosing not to call them so would itself act as a "barrier rather than an aid to understanding", the BBC had no comment. A senior BBC correspondent, however, did say that "debate rages on" within the organization. Another said the organisation delays making the call as long as possible because it is "naturally conservative" in such things. From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 15:07:31 2008 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:07:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation for screening 'There was a Queen' Message-ID: <19d498870812030137tfba7e1aib91d06892af6011c@mail.gmail.com> *'There was a queen' in Madurai International Film Festival* 'There was a queen, the documentary film on woman, conflict and peace in Kashmir will be screened in 10th Madurai International Film Festival on Decemeber 5th afternoon in Tamilnadu Theological Seminary auditorium. The film is directed by Ms. Kavita Pai and Hansa Thapliyal and shot by an all women crew.Madurai International Film Festval will be held from 3rd to 8th of Decemberin various venues including colleges and villages in and around Madurai. This film has so farparticipated in MIFF-2008, ViBGYOR-2008, Kolkatta Film Festival-2008 and it will be screened in Tri-Continental Film Festival-2009. *Synopsis* "Yi As Akh Padshah Bai" (There was a Queen…) India / Kashmiri, Hindustani, English with English subtitles / 105 minutes / Video / 2007 "Give us guns and we'll play our role!" - These are not the words of a hardened criminal; these are the words of a teenaged girl in Kashmir less than a week after her sister was buried. Farha's sister Shahnaza, and her friend, Ulfat, victims of 'crossfire' would have been adult women today - they were barely seventeen when they died, as old as the *tehreek*, the movement, that exploded into existence in 1989, shattering forever the peace of the Valley, and turning it into one of the most critical conflict zones in the world. Over these eighteen years, flashes of intensified conflict and bouts of negotiations have followed one another with monotonous regularity in Kashmir. Newspapers and television channels manufacture predictable binary images of conflict – angry men and weeping women, peace loving Kashmiris and terrorist Kashmiris, misguided innocents and fundamentalist separatists, victims and aggressors. Over and above these is the image that erases all differences – the Kashmiri as terrorist. The film discusses how women's engagement with everyday violence has led them to think of issues of security, peace, conflict management and transformation in the unique situation of conflict in the area. It is also an exploration of the relationship between the construction of identity of the community/nation and women's identity and the need for women to be aware of how and by whom these identity constructs are forged which are usually not favorable to women's autonomy in the particular culture and nation. When the directors set out to make a film, they felt strange to speak to women, only women, ignoring the other half. So they spoke to a few men – one a former militant, another who had sent his son for training across the border with his blessings, a third who had lost his son and then realized he was a militant, a fourth whose brother was killed in crossfire – they spoke to men and realized that while every story had the power to shock and move, the women's stories were compelling in their honesty, in their rage, in their helplessness, in their grief, in their contempt, in their fierce refusal to forget, in their determination to survive, to nurture. It is through these women – proud, strong, with an undying zest for life – that the film examines what peace means and how it can come about in Kashmir. (For DVD copy of the film contact:www.othermediacommunications.com) From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 15:18:58 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:48:58 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? Message-ID: On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may have mixed her up. I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani flags" in India, so just trying to connect. But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light? From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 15:59:43 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:59:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812030020y16a6d763w5c3a18a4745216f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70812030020y16a6d763w5c3a18a4745216f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120812030229g1ba9bf38mf45192dd90cfece@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shudda,Pawan, To be honest there is and was no reason why one should make any reference to the religion of these terrorists.It is truly immaterial what their religion is.People especially those who may not have read or understood the textual material or scriptural essence of the faith in whose name they are carrying out the evil are mere pawns and no more.They are just the symptoms of the deeper maliase that lies in the minds of their masters. There is no doubt in my mind that the best way to defeat such people or their masters is to as Shuddha puts' "by narrowing of political and cultural space for hatred" in our socities. But thats where we are failing partly because of the complex historical past and the other hand which we want to hold (the one being of the State of Pakistan ) being the one that has often been seen to kindle fires in our homes through these people who we call terrorists today. Pakistan as a state has used the extreme fringe as a tactical and strategic weapon(with help from Americans).It is now the same fringe that hurts them as much as it hurts us.Pakistan as a state has been in eternal denial and the best that the people of Pakistan can do(dont know if they will be heard) is to tell their elected governmet to act against people who attacked Marriot,killed Benazir and wreck havoc on people of their own faith day in and day out.If thats achieved there wont be a Mumbai attack ever again.But does the state or non state actors have the power or ability to do so.I very much doubt.The Frankesteins have become too big to handle. We have seen people to people contacts increase over the years and CDP go on.Through all this we have seen more and more attacks on the Indian as well as Pakistani soil by the same set of people.one can say it is a sign of frustation of the terrorists but how many lives have to be scarificed to achieve peace.I am not saying we should stop any of the friendly gestures but we have to somehow make the government of Pakistan act.What good is it that the Pak Govt ,saying that they dont spare us so there is no way we can stop them?Are we to wait to be killed because our neighbour has a fringe they cannot control? Carry out the two processes parallely.Meet force with force if required but dont cut the chord of contact with ordinary Pakistanis. As far as islamophobia is concerned,I dont know of anyone who has pointed out the religion of these guys>not even Arunabh Goswami.So why bring it up?Wonder is Islamophobic in that case? Since I cant read Arabic for myself so I may not be really qualified to speak on the various Quranic Injunctions which may or may not exhort its followers to "killing infidels" but basis the various translations(esp of Pickthall and Yusufali) of Quran one can only say that while there are some verses(seemingly Meccan Verses-when the Prophet still wasnt powerful enough) where the book is reconcilatory with other faiths(especially the People of the Book ie Judaism and Christanity) there are verses(many more than Shudda has referred to) which even when read in context do seem to suggest that it sanctions violence against non believers especially pagans of Arabia.But we have to factor in the fact that the first complitaion of Quran was done almost hundered years after Prophet Mohammed's passing away.It is very much possible that some errors may have crept in or then there is a chance of our own limited understanding or interpreation of Quran.It is these verses that the sick men seem to use to indoctrinate young,restless,poor and sometimes naive to commit acts of violence.Religion(and not Islam alone) can even make the most learned lose way.If it can make someone like Iqbal could pen the following lines what can a Class four drop out do... *Tore makhluq khudawandon ke paikar kis ne? Kaat kar rakh diye kaffaar ke lashkar kis ne?* *(Iqbal in Shikwa asking God if it wasnt muslims who broke the idols of the pagans or who fought and massacred their hordes)* ** ** ** So while we must make every effort to narrow the cultural and poltical space available to these people we must equally address the sickness behind them,the real malaise behind them and if they dont give up their ways with peace then should we be prepared to wait to be killed....or should we like Acharya Abhinavgupta walk into the cave sooner and wait for death to come. Best Regards Rashneek Kher ** On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Shuddha , > > Your mail seems to be apologetic.. You almost intend to defend > Pakistan , Islamic terrorism , etc. > > Though non of us heave blamed an average muslim with being on side of > Islamic terrorists , however the fact remains that Islamic terrorism > does exist worldwide .....even in the communist country like China. > > The more you defend the wrong and more execuses are being created , > all seem like it is to weaken the resolve to fight terror and its > sponsors. > > Pls for this time .....let us fight terror.....dont weaken the Indians. > > Already pakistan has rejected the Indian demand of handing over > terrorists...after insulting Indian PM by not sending ISI chief after > agreeing to it first. > > Our war is not against any relegion ....it is against Pakistan and > terror... > > Pawan > > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > > Thinking Through the Debris of Terror > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org) > > > > Last week's terror attacks on Mumbai, for which there can be no > > justification whatsoever, have targetted railway stations, > > restaurants, hospitals, places of worship, streets and hotels. These > > are the places in which people gather. where the anonymous flux of > > urban life finds refuge and sustenance on an everyday basis. By > > attacking such sites, the protagonists of the recent terror attack > > (like all their predecessors) echo the tropes of conventional warfare > > as it developed in the twentieth century. These tactics valued the > > objective of the escalation of terror and panic amongst civilians > > higher than they viewed the neutralization of strictly military or > > strategic targets. In a war without end, (which is one way of looking > > at the twentieth century and its legacy) panic is the key weapon and > > the most important objective. The terrorists who entered Bombay did > > not come to win, or even to leverage a coherent set of demands. Their > > only objective was panic. In that they succeeded, aided and abetted > > by those sections of the media who translated their actions through > > breathless, incessant and hysterical reportage. > > > > The history of the indiscriminate bombing of cities and inhabited > > tracts as acts of war in modern times (from Guernica in Spain to > > Dresden and London in the Second World War, to the bombing of > > Cambodia in the 70s and the attacks on Baghdad in the Iraq War) > > underscores the fact that the ultimate objective of contemporary > > military actions is not the destruction of military or state assets > > but the utter demoralization of the civilian population by deploying > > disproportionate and massive force against the softest of possible > > targets - unarmed, un-involved ordinary people. The terrorists who > > caused mayhem in Bombay, and their mentors, wheresoever they may lie, > > are no less remarkable in their lethal cynicism than those who > > sanctioned the bombing of Baghdad in recent times. They were > > interested in hurting people more than they were in tilting at the > > windmills of power. If we accept the conjecture that the attacks were > > authored by Islamist organizations based in Pakistan (which by itself > > is not unlikely), then we also have to accept the irony that in their > > actions they have mirrored and echoed the tactics of the military > > leadership of the great powers they decry as their adversaries. > > Terrorists and war criminals are replicas of each other. The > > difference between them is only a matter of degree.The students have > > learnt well from their teachers. > > > > No redemptive, just, honourable or worthwhile politically > > transformatory objectives can be met, or even invoked, by attacking a > > mass transit railway station, a restaurant, a hotel or a hospital. > > The holding of hostages in a centre of worship and comfort for > > travellers cannot and does not challenge any form of the state > > oppression anywhere. The terrorists (I unhesitatingly call them > > 'terrorists', a word which I am normally reluctant to use, because > > their objective was nothing other than the terror itself) who > > undertook these operations did not deal a single blow to the edifice > > of oppression in this country, or in any other country. On the other > > hand, they strengthened it. By helping to unleash calls for war, by > > eliminating (unwittingly perhaps) those that have been investigating > > the links between fringe far right groups and home grown terror, by > > provoking once again the demand for stronger and more lethal > > legislation for preventive detention (in the form of a revived or > > resuscitated POTA), these terrorists have done statist and > > authoritarian politics in India its biggest favour. The sinister and > > lunatic fringe of far right politics of the Hindutva variety (which > > seems to have acted hand in glove with rogue elements within the > > security establishment) in particular, must be delighted to have been > > gifted this latest horror on a platter without having had to work > > hard for it. > > > > While the agents of the attack in Bombay may have been genuinely > > motivated by their own twisted understanding of Islam, they have > > demonstrated that they have no hesitation in putting millions of > > Indian Muslims in harms way by exposing them to the risk of a long > > drawn out of spiral of retaliation. We need to underscore that they > > killed 40 innocent, unarmed Muslims (roughly 20 % of the current > > total casualty figures of 179) while they unleashed their brutal > > force on Bombay. The terrorists who authored their deaths cannot by > > any stretch of imagination be seen as partisans or friends of Islam. > > They are the enemy of us all, and especially of those amoungst us who > > happen to be Muslims, for they jeopardize the safety and security of > > all Muslims in India by unleashing yet another wave of suspicion and > > prejudice against ordinary Muslims. Any effort to rationalize their > > actions by reference to real or perceived injustices to Muslims in > > India, is patronizing at best, and insensitive at worst. > > > > It is therefore neither surprising nor remarkable that several Muslim > > organizations and individuals in India have unanimously condemned the > > terror attacks and terrorism in general. The actions of the > > terrorists (their purported statements as aired on India TV > > notwithstanding) constitute an insult to anyone who is interested in > > seriously addressing the discrimination faced by minorities in India. > > > > What is particularly reprehensible about the terrorist's actions is > > their choice to target and kill unarmed Jewish travellers, a rabbi > > and his wife. This choice was not accidental, these people were > > targetted because of their religious affiliation and their ethnic > > origins. The anti-semitic edge of contemporary Islamic Fundamentalism > > has nothing whatsoever to do with any opposition to the oppressive > > policies and practices of the state of Israel towards Palestinians. > > Targetting Jews (who may or may not be Israeli) or individuals who > > happen to be Israeli in a house of Jewish worship in Mumbai for the > > actions of the State of Israel is not unlike attacking Carribean > > Hindus and Hindu Indians at a Hindu temple in Trinidad for real or > > imagined misdemeanours of the Republic of India. It would be similar > > to attacking ordinary Indian, Pakistani or Somali Muslims and Iraqis > > in retribution for the offences committed by the erstwhile Ba'athist > > government of Iraq on Kurds. The Israeli government treats > > Palestinians in occupied Palestine a shade better than Saddam > > Hussain's Iraq treated Kurds. (Settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, > > though they have no doubt borne the brunt of Israeli state terror, > > have not to my knowledge been gassed by chemical weapons). Islamic > > fundamentalist anti-semitism is as much an abomination as Hindu, > > Christian or Jewish Fundamentalist or Secular Islamophobia anywhere > > in the world. > > > > One of the theories doing the rounds of the underbelly of blogs and > > mailing lists is that of 'Mossad-CIA' involvement in the attacks on > > Bombay. While I have no doubt at all about the fact that > > organizations such as the Mossad and the CIA are murderous and > > unscrouplous in terms of their day to day operational existence and > > that they have an active and corrosive agenda in South Asia. I find > > the theory of their involvement in the Bombay terror attacks as far > > fetched as the assumption that the Indian Ocean Tsunami was a result > > of a Mossad-RAW conspiracy to test secret undersea weapons. Such > > theories, which are closely related to the '9/11 was a Mossad job' > > kind of wild conjecture, are a species of denial, and are often > > propogated by credulous commentators and politicans, particularly in > > the Muslim world (and their non-Muslim sympathisers), with a view to > > maintaining the myth of the eternally victimised and wronged Muslim. > > Such unsubstantiated conjectures and allegations do not help Muslims > > in any way. On the contrary their whimsical non-seriousness > > perpetuates the conditions that undermine responsible non-xenophobic > > Muslim points of view from being taken seriously. > > > > Having said all this (which I believe is necessary to say), it is > > equally important to address several other serious issues that have > > raised their ugly heads in the aftermath of the attack on Bombay. > > > > The aftermath of the terrible recent events in Bombay contains a > > great deal of debris. A spell of terror destroys so much, so quickly. > > A lot gets damaged by violence. Lives are shattered, walls and roofs > > collapse, entire neighbourhoods get devastated. Cities, sometimes the > > populations of countries, find what gets called their 'spirit' broken. > > > > But one thing stays intact, and on occasion even finds new strength. > > This one thing is a sense of wounded innocence, and the search for > > easy fixes and answers. There can be nothing more dangerous at > > present than this deadly combination of injured innocence and glib > > macho loose talk. > > > > I would like to spend some time looking at the sources and > > consequences of two specific kinds of loose talk which I will address > > in turn. > > > > 1. War Mongering: The Indian state is an injured and innocent party, > > and an attack like this gives India the right to conduct a military > > campaign, even war, against Pakistan to finish once and for all, the > > scourge of terrorism. As the botoxed visage of Simi Garewal screamed > > on 'We the People' broadcast on NDTV two evenigns ago 'Carpet Bomb > > those parts of Pakistan..." > > > > 2. Islamophobia : We can understand everything about the motives and > > drives of the terrorists by pointing to their 'Muslim' identity. A > > variant of this is - 'The Quran sanctions violence against > > unbelievers, and that is all that we need to know in order to > > understand the roots of the attacks in Bombay'. This kind of > > sentiment is burgeoning on the internet, where it feeds the > > testosterone overdrive of a certain kind of overzealous netizen who > > sees the tragedy that has befallen Bombay as an opportunity to put > > out a sick and prejudiced agenda. > > > > It should not come as a surprise that often, the two come linked. The > > idiotic and jejune militarist fantasies of the hard Hindutva right > > are a public secret. However, there are also many card carrying > > secular nationalist 'war mongers' who see the times we are living > > through as an opportunity to exhibit how much more 'patriotic' they > > can be than their communal peers. Of course, these attitudes have > > their exact mirrors in Pakistan. And a peculiar mirroring is > > currently underway between Indian and Pakistani news channels, with > > news anchors such as the hysterical Arnab Goswami (Times Now TV) in > > India and his counterparts in Pakistan indulging in a perverse and > > dangerous game of jingoistic one-upmanship. Even retired senior > > officers of the armed forces who are sought out for comment and > > analysis in television studios and politicians of parties such as the > > BJP (neither of whom are necessarily known as models of moderation) > > are acting with greater restraint than sections of the electronic > > media. They (the BJP politicians) are at least at present not rushing > > to talk of war (how could they, they have an election to contest in a > > few months time, and an Indo-Pak military standoff that could work to > > the advantage of the incumbent UPA government could really upset > > their best calculatons). The retired soldiers by and large, speak > > wisely of avoiding military options as far as is possible. It is only > > the few news anchors who have let their place in the spotlights go to > > their heads, (and their adolescent online clones) who are > > consistently maintaining the shrilness of war-talk. > > > > Those speaking of war or punitive military strikes base their > > arguments on the 'enough is enough' theory, that time has now come to > > deal Pakistan a hard blow as a punitive action against letting its > > territory being used against India. This line of reasoning assumes > > that India is cast as the eternal victim and can never be seen as the > > aggressor. > > > > If this is so, then (following this line of thiking) there is no > > reason why India too should not have been carpet bombed for allowing > > the use of its territory and resources for acts of terror against its > > neighbours. The memory of news anchors may be as brief as the punchy > > headlines of breaking news, but even a cursory examination of recent > > history would show that the Indian state and elements within India > > have sinned as much as they have been sinned against. > > > > In May 1984, for instance, the LTTE (at that time housed, armed, > > funded and nourished by the Indian state led by Indira Gandhi) > > conducted a brutal slaughter of around one hundred and twenty unarmed > > and peaceful Buddhist pilgrims in and around one of Sri Lanka's > > holiest Buddhist shrines in Anuradhapura. The Anuradhapura Massacre > > caused great anguish and outrage in Sri Lanka at that time, and if we > > accept the principles that prompt our 'studio-warriors' and 'online > > dharamyoddhas' to call for the carpet-bombings of parts of Pakistan > > then we have to admit that it was unfortunate that Sri Lanka did not > > carpet bomb Delhi and Chennai. > > > > Perhaps as the comparatively militarily weaker neighbour of mighty > > India, it may have found itself reluctant to imagine, let alone carry > > out such a bizarre threat. Clearly, the nuclear fuelled fantasies of > > militarist Indians brook no such reasons for reticence. I wonder > > whether it is amnesia and the lack of a moral-ethical sense that > > underwrites Indian militarism or is it the intoxication of arrogant > > militarism that induces this dystopic inability to either remember > > ones own state's history of complicity in terror or to behave > > ethically and reasonably in times of crisis. > > > > Further, should a professional investigation into the devastating > > attack on the Samjhauta Express train to Pakistan reveal that the > > perpetrators of the attack were Hindu radicals assisted by rogue > > elements within the military intelligence apparatus in India, would > > Pakistan then be justified in 'carpet bombing' Pune, indore, Jammu > > and other places linked to the cluster of organizations and > > individuals around outfits such as 'Abhinav Bharat'? > > > > A military adventure into Pakistani held territory by Indian forces > > at this current juncture can be nothing short of a disaster, It risks > > taking South Asia and the world to the precipice of a nuclear > > conflict. It has been pointed out by some idiots on television that > > the United States is apparently safer today for having sent troops to > > fight into Afghanistan and Iraq. The truth is, the United States has > > made the world and Americans a great deal more unsafe , and a great > > deal more vulnerable to terrorism, by the conduct of its wars in Iraq > > and Afghanistan. The incidence of terrorism worldwide has increased > > due to its intervention, and even the attacks on Bombay can in a > > sense be seen as ricocheting off the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. > > The deliberate targeting of British and American individuals by the > > terrorists in Bombay last week demonstrates how unsafe it is to be > > seen carrying an American passport today. If India is to be pulled > > headlong into conflict with Pakistan as a result of the fall out of > > the attacks on Bombay, the world will automatically and immediately > > become a far more unsafe place. There will be more, not less > > terrorism for us all to deal with. > > > > The only way for us to defeat terrorism in South Asia is for ordinary > > Indians and Pakistanis to join hands across the Indo-Pak divide to > > say that they will no longer tolerate the nurturing of terror, hate > > and division in their societies through the covert and overt acts of > > rogue elements in both their governments (which have a vested > > interest in the continuity of conflict) and powerful non-state > > actors in both societies. Neither POTA, nor military misadventures, > > nor harder borders can defeat terrorism. A suicide bomber can only be > > disarmed by the narrowing of the political and cultural space for > > hatred within society to levels of utter insignificance. > > > > For this to occur, we all need to shed the cocoons of the assumptions > > of our own innocence. The sooner we do so, the sooner we realize that > > culpability in terror in South Asia is not a one way street with all > > signs pointing only in the direction of Pakistan, the better it will > > be for peace in our time. The automatic assumption of our own > > innocence, especially at times when we perceive ourselves to the be > > victims, is something we cannot afford to do. Whatever little > > illusory comfort it may give us in the short run, it will rebound to > > haunt us with unforgiving intensity. I > > > > f we are serious about putting an end to the seemingly endless spiral > > of retributive violence behind us we have to exercise the hard and > > necessary choice of leaving the discourse of 'martyrs', 'victims', > > 'villains' and 'heroes' behind us. The media, and especially the > > electronic media have a special role to play in this regard. They > > have much introspection to do. It will not do to have jingoist > > anchors and commentators protect their diminishing intelligence and > > rising moral culpability in stoking the flames of war themselves with > > the fig leaf of 'national psyche' and 'popular sentiment'. It is they > > who fashion the chimera of 'popular sentiment' with their spin > > doctoring, and it is unacceptable to see people refuse to take > > responsibility for the very serious consequences of this dangerous spin. > > > > Finally, I come to the question of whether there is anything > > specifically 'Islamic' about acts of terrorism such as we have > > witnessed in Bombay last week. Under normal circumstances, such > > ridiculous questions would not need any attention. Unfortunately, > > these are not normal circumstances, and it is at times such as these, > > that otherwise marginal irresponsibly articulated opinions get a > > disproportionate velocity due to the way in which they circulate, > > particularly on the internet and then leak out into the grit of > > innuendo, insinuation, half-informed speculation and rumour in daily > > conversation. > > > > One particularly pernicious communication that has been doing the > > rounds of chain mails, and has already begun cropping up in blog > > posts and discussion lists is the familiar litany of - "There are > > suras (chapters) in the Quran that justify the slaughter of > > unbelievers and what the terrorists were doing was only fulfilling > > the commands of their faith". This kind of response asks us to assume > > two things, > > > > One, that the source of the motivation for the terrorists actions was > > predominantly scriptural (this bases itself somewhat on the scripture > > laden rhetoric and vocabulary of the so-called 'Indian Mujahideen' > > terror emails that accompanied previous attacks this year) > > > > Secondly, that if as a believing Muslim you do not follow quranic > > injunctions to unleash violence, you are at best an insincere or > > inconsistent Muslim, and the only true Muslim is the one who kills > > unbelievers to earn his place in heavan. > > > > The first reduces the speechless complexity of a terrorists actions > > to a few pithy and selectively quoted phrases. The second is an > > insult to the lives, actions and convictions of the absolute majority > > of believing Muslims. Both betray a singular and profound ignorance > > of Islam, of the concept of jihad within Islam and an unwillingness > > to engage with Islamic belief and the history of Islamicate societies. > > > > This(completely erroneously) view of all Muslims as mindless 'holy > > warriors' takes the injunctions to do with the term 'jihad' (which > > translates, not as 'holy war' as is commonly thought, but as > > 'struggle') as referring solely to acts of violence. It needs to be > > stated here, once again, as has been stated many times before,in many > > different contexts, that 'jihad' within the theological context of > > Islam is of two kinds, and that only one of these refers to the > > conduct of armed struggle. The greater and more commendable jihad is > > that which involves a personal struggle with one's own baser and > > unethical propensities, which every believing Muslim is asked to > > conduct as a spiritual cleansing process. The 'lesser jihad' concerns > > specifically defensive military acts conducted against aggressors as > > a last resort, when all else fails. > > > > The Quran is replete with statements such as 'to you your religion > > and to me mine', or 'there can be no compulsion in religion'. When > > the adherents of other religions are specifically mentioned by name > > (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) it is said - > > > > "Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabeans (the followers of St. John > > the Baptist or Hazrat Yahya) - whoever believes in Allah and the Last > > Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord, they > > have nothing to fear or to regret". (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:62) > > > > Jews are invoked as 'the children of Israel (Bani Israil) and in the > > Quran, Allah only asks of them that they remain true to their faith. > > There is not a trace of anti-semitism in the Quran. When certain Jews > > are spoken of negatively, the statements echo the admonitions of the > > Jewish scriptures by saying that 'those amongst the people of the > > book who were of little faith' were worthy of God's disfavour. > > Clearly, this indicates that 'those amongst the people of the book > > who were NOT of little faith' are to be favoured, and in fact Allah > > is heard saying in the Quran - > > > > "O Children of Israel, remember the favours I have bestowed upon you, > > keep to your covenant, and I will keep to mine". (Sura Baqarah - The > > Cow - 2:40) > > > > It is important to keep this in mind specifically with regard to the > > special targeting of unarmed Jews by the terrorists in Bombay. Their > > acts, in this specific instance stand in direct contradiction to the > > spirit of the Quran. While there are anti-semitic traces in the > > Ahadis (the reported traditions of the prophet that were accumulated > > and collated over the centuries), there is no unanimity or consensus > > amongst believing Muslims about the authenticity of different > > 'isnads' (lines of transmission) attatched to different Ahadis. > > Therefore, in instances of ambiguity, as with regard to the attitude > > to Jews and those of other faiths, it is only the unquestioned > > authority of the Quran that can be seen as acting as the final > > arbiter and guide. From this standpoint alone, the anti-semitic edge > > of the terrorists actions in Bombay last week can be justifiably > > condemned as anathema by all believing Muslims. > > > > Generally speaking, the quote that is most commonly hurled by > > Islamophobes is - > > "Kill them wherever you find them, drive them out of the places from > > which they drove you" (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). This > > verse was given to the prophet Mohammad before the advent of a major > > battle when all attempts at arriving at peaceful negotiations had > > been exhausted, and when the Prophet and his fledgeling community in > > Medina were in danger of being exterminated by invasive aggression. > > The injunctions are specific, they apply only to retaliation against > > armed bodies of men who have acted as aggressors. > > > > What is omitted when these verses are hurled, either by Islamophobes, > > or by Islamists, is that they follow immediately from the injunction > > that says - > > > > "fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do > > not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressor" (Sura > > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > > > It is also followed by the equally specific injunction "but if they > > mend their ways, know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.. but if > > they mend their ways, fight none other than the evil-doers." (Sura > > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > > > So, we have repeated caveats, repeated qualifications - 'do not be > > the aggressor', 'fight only if they fight you', 'cease armed action > > if they see reason' that immediately surround the quote that is so > > often pulled out at times like this like a tired rabbit from a > > magicians hat. And yet, the sleight of hand continues. > > > > By what stretch of imagination can a chef's assistant in a hotel, or > > a rabbi's wife, or passengers trying to get to second class railway > > carriages or children who live on the street, ordinary Muslims, or > > police officers trying to investigate the terrorist outrages > > purportedly undertaken by radicals who happen to be Hindus with a > > view to intimidating ordinary Muslims be seen as 'aggressors' against > > Islam? By which Quranic injunction can we justify acts of aggression > > against such individuals? > > > > Once again, by their concrete actions, the terrorists have > > demonstrated not their fidelity, but their sharp deviance from the > > letter and spirit of the Quran. Those motivated and prejudiced > > slanderers who circulate the insinuations about the 'Islamic' > > provenance of the terrorists actions are actually just as much guilty > > of spreading a mistaken understanding of Islam as the terrorists > > themselves. In fact, objectively, once again, Isamophobes and > > Islamists, are not advesaries, but allies. > > > > The lineage of the terrorists who attacked Bombay is better traced to > > those vicious acts of twentieth and twenty-first century terror which > > feature self styled protagonists of all the faiths and ideologies > > that mark our modern world. They are to be found as much amongst the > > New Age-Buddhist-Hindu hybrid of Aum Shirin Kyo, the Branch > > Davidians, the Balinese Hindu vigilantes who slaughtered 40,000 > > unarmed Indonesian Communists and their suspected sympathisers in > > 1965, the ultra-left and far-right radicals of West Germany, Japan > > and Italy in the seventies and the hardened callousness of > > Palestinian, Egyptian, Israeli, Peruvian, Basque and Irish terrorism > > as much as it is to be located in the enigmas known as the LTTE (all > > factions) , the Lashkar-e- Taiba, Jaish-e- Mohammad, HUJI, Indian > > Mujahideen and Al-Qaida. Each of these organizations has contributed > > more than anything else to the hardening of structures of state > > power. As such, they, like the Indian Maoists and Salwa Judum , and > > the ingredients of the alphabet soup of insurgent and counter- > > insugent outfits operating through the length and breadth of India, > > Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma are the objective agent-provcateurs of > > reactionary, authoritarian, statist politics. Terrorism, whatever > > else it may be, is in the end, the mightiest secret weapon in the > > arsenal of the state to beat and badger a terrified population into > > meek submission by creating a situation where the surrender and > > abdication of civil rights is seen as a normalized and natural > > response to a mounting crisis. > > > > Even a brief history of the limited genre of terrorist actions such > > as 'hotel bombings and attacks' reveals a rainbow hued ecumenical > > pantheon of contemporary terror. The attacks on the Taj and the > > Obeori Trident (which constituted the spectacular telegenic apex of > > the Bombay attacks) need to be seen as successors to the Marriott > > Hotel bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan of only a few months ago, the > > bombings of the Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt and Days Inn Hotels in > > Amman, Jordan in 2005, the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton, UK > > by the Provisional IRA in 1984, the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in > > Sydney, Australia by suspected Ananda Marg radicals in 1978 and last, > > but certainly not the least, the King David Hotel Bombing in > > Jerusalem, (then Palestine) in 1946 carried out by Irgun, a terrorist > > organization wedded to the Zionist ideal of a Jewish state in Palestine. > > > > If hotel massacres were something like cricket scores, then we could > > say that the Bombay attacks have finally surpassed the hitherto all > > time high 'score' of the King David Hotel Massacre of 1946. The > > Irgun, a terrorist outfit espousing an ostensibly 'Jewish' and > > supposedly 'Zionist' cause had held till date the record of maximum > > caualties for this outrage. 93 dead. The Bombay attacks, apparently > > authored by militant Islamists, have gone higher. Those who identify > > terrorism with Islam today would find themselves faced with the > > uncomfortable fact that as far as the lethality of attacks go, the > > bar was raised early, and high, by self-styled 'Jewish freedom > > fighters' who counted amongst their ranks the then future prime > > minister of the state of Israel, Menahem Begin. The Islamists have > > once again proved how imitative they are of the militant far-right > > edge of Zionism. Again, the students have learnt well from their > > historical teachers. > > > > Begin (who is somewhat of an icon amongst many current islamophobic > > zealots of the 'war against terror' for the hard line that he took in > > Lebanon against the PLO ad its Lebanese allies and against violent as > > well as non violent forms of Palestinian resistance) is himself > > reported to have said while referring to the period in which the King > > David Hotel Massacre took place - "We actually provided the example > > of what the urban guerrilla is, we created the method of the urban > > guerrilla." - see - 'By Blood and Fire: The Attack on Jerusalem's > > King David Hotel' by Thurston Clarke, Hutchinson, 1981 > > > > To extrapolate from the specatcular successes of self styled 'Jewish' > > terrorism in Palestine under the British Mandate in the 1930s and 40s > > to a generalized theory of 'Jewish' Terrorism would have been as > > prejudiced and short sighted then (and many efforts were made in this > > direction) as the current efforts to give current global terror a > > 'Muslim' face are today. In fact the ancestors and first cousins of > > today's Islamophobic zealots are yesterday's and today's anti-semitic > > rabble rousers. Sometimes, at the outer edges and wild fringes of the > > global far right, they still do meet. The irony in the fact that > > here, they often find themselves in the convivial company of self > > styled 'Hindu', 'Christian', 'Neo-Nazi' and even 'Jewish' radicals is > > inescapable, whose agendas merge and diverge like the courses of > > unpredictable rivers. > > > > The 'Jewish' bombers who took down the King David Hotel in 1946 > > entered it carrying milk cans laden with explosives in the guise of > > 'Muslim Arab' milkmen. Reports of the earlier round of Malegaon and > > Nanded blasts featured instances of the possibility of 'Hindu' > > radicals donning fake beards and 'Muslim' guises to plant bombs. > > Reports of the recent Bombay attacks suggest that the 'Muslims' who > > entered the Taj and the Trident hotels wore red threads around their > > wrists and had smeared their foreheads with 'tilaks' in order to > > appear as 'Hindus'. What this 'tragedy of errors' suggests that as > > far as terrorists are concerned, identity is a masquerade. Jews and > > Hindus cross-dress as Muslims, Muslims appear in Hindu drag. In > > killing and dying, they cross the line and embrace the identity of > > the very other that they ostensibly hate. It is only we, the > > witnesses and the vicarious spectators of this masquerade, the rag- > > pickers in the debris of their actions, who obsess about the > > 'reality' of their identities. By doing this we follow what is > > scripted for our bit parts in this charade to the hilt. When the > > curtain calls come, we, the chorus, the extras, are all lined up > > behind the principal actors, taking a bow. They were their costumes, > > we are naked in our incredulity. > > > > The actions of a terrorist are neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor > > Jewish, nor Christian, nor a Sikh, nor Communist, nor Anarchist, The > > terrorist is simply the emissary and executioner of of the > > mediocrity of organized violence, and an agent acting for a number of > > overlapping shadowy state and non-stage clients of different > > provenances, whose identities may be obscure even to him. > > > > This profound ambiguity, if nothing else, should prompt us to be > > moderate and reasonable in our responses to the spectacle of terror. > > To buy into its proffered illusion of certainty is perhaps one of the > > greatest signs of submission that we can offer to those who have > > nothing other than terror to give us. Surely, we can be more > > intelligent, imaginative, self-aware, sceptical and compassionate. > > The two most important things we need to do is to stay calm, and keep > > our doubts alive. > > > > END > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 16:05:11 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:05:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13df7c120812030235x4bf19207pe8be228177f57961@mail.gmail.com> Both the interviewee as well as the interviwer are in a sense mirror copies in this. Benazir talked of peace and yet the same lady exhorted people OF Kashmir just because they happened to be Muslims. See the venom spitting here *Kis ko aatee hai mesahayee *Best Regards Rashneek Kher On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length > interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very > odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or > someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may > have mixed her up. > > I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani > flags" in India, so just trying to connect. > > But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher Wandhama Massacre-The Forgotten Human Tragedy http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 16:19:57 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 02:49:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <939979.38404.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   Simi Garewal for sure has interviewed Benazir on her show "Rendezvous with Simi Garewal" for the 'Star World' channel   That is probably what you saw. I do not know of any other 'oldtime' actress who conducts interviews.   She has apologised for her "Pakistani Flags" comment. She missed the fact that 'those' flags did not have the vertical White Stripe. I guess since 'peace' was a casualty, the 'white stripe' was not taken into account.   That brings me to the question to educate myself. Where does the 'Crescent Moon and Star' motif  come from as an Islamic symbol?   All accounts suggest that it has nothing to do with Islam as such and predates Islam. The know linkage for introduction into Islamic Symbolism is after the Islamisation of Constantinople where it was already a part of the flag for the Ottomon Empire.   The Star is used on the flags of islamic countries with varying designs and numbers. The suggestion therefore that the Star if 5 pointed represents the 5 pillars of Islam does not seem to be valid.   If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being the flag of Pakistan?   Kshmendra       --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:18 PM On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may have mixed her up. I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani flags" in India, so just trying to connect. But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Dec 3 16:32:11 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:32:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? In-Reply-To: <939979.38404.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <939979.38404.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra, Dear Naeem. The crescent moon and star are not, strictly speaking an Islamic symbol. You are right. They happen to be the crest of the Ottoman ruling dynasty, which somehow got metastasized, since the rise of the Ottomans to the general Muslim world. You do not find it prior to the rise of the Ottoman caliphate (an episode quite late in Islamic history). its use by all sorts of Muslims, Ottoman or not, (many of them former subjects of the Ottoman empire) today, is an instance of their amnesia regarding the history of symbols and visual tropes in Islam On 03-Dec-08, at 4:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > Simi Garewal for sure has interviewed Benazir on her show > "Rendezvous with Simi Garewal" for the 'Star World' channel > > That is probably what you saw. I do not know of any other 'oldtime' > actress who conducts interviews. > > She has apologised for her "Pakistani Flags" comment. She missed > the fact that 'those' flags did not have the vertical White Stripe. > I guess since 'peace' was a casualty, the 'white stripe' was not > taken into account. > > That brings me to the question to educate myself. Where does the > 'Crescent Moon and Star' motif come from as an Islamic symbol? > > All accounts suggest that it has nothing to do with Islam as such > and predates Islam. The know linkage for introduction into Islamic > Symbolism is after the Islamisation of Constantinople where it was > already a part of the flag for the Ottomon Empire. > > The Star is used on the flags of islamic countries with varying > designs and numbers. The suggestion therefore that the Star if 5 > pointed represents the 5 pillars of Islam does not seem to be valid. > > If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian Muslims > that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without > the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to > being the flag of Pakistan? > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Naeem Mohaiemen > wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:18 PM > > On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length > interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very > odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or > someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may > have mixed her up. > > I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani > flags" in India, so just trying to connect. > > But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 16:39:29 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:39:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Learn From Israel.. In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812030307i271c416du505a7470de97024@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70812030307i271c416du505a7470de97024@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812030309n3383aab0s2944969db0e5b3c5@mail.gmail.com> What a country ! Israeli citizen gets killed in Mumbai attacked was seen as a failure of its intelligence by Israel Govt , and Israel has dismissed its Counter Intelligence Adviser to its PM. Would India EVER learn....This is an action which CAN NOT happen in India , as in India NOBODY is responsible ENOUGH.... Pls share this mail with all INDIANS............Peedee http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_israel0762_12_02.asp *Israeli security official terminated following Mumbai massacre * JERUSALEM — The counter-insurgency adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has been dismissed in wake of an attack by an Al Qaida affiliate on Israelis in India. Brig. Gen. Nitzan Nuriel was dismissed from his post as head of the Counter-Terrorism Bureau on Dec. 1, in wake of confirmation that eight Israeli hostages were killed in the Al Qaida-aligned attacks in Mumbai, India. Nuriel, appointed in mid-2008, was responsible for monitoring threats to Israelis abroad. In a statement, Olmert's office said Nuriel was dismissed upon the recommendation of National Security Council director Danny Arditi. The office said Nuriel, a former senior army commander, had been serving a trial period. The Counter-Terrorism Bureau, established in 1996, advises the prime minister and the Cabinet. The office has also been responsible for gauging threats to Israelis abroad and coordinating security at Israeli border crossings. From angshukanta at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 17:43:34 2008 From: angshukanta at gmail.com (Angshukanta Chakraborty) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:13:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Cities and new wars: after Mumbai Message-ID: <77aa94900812030413k5ebbcf84y5149f613dd4e85ad@mail.gmail.com> Cities and new wars: after Mumbai Saskia Sassen The attacks on India's commercial capital belong to a global frontline of asymmetric urban warfare, says Saskia Sassen. 29 - 11 - 2008 The Mumbai attacks of 26-29 November 2008 are part of an emerging type of urban violence. These were organised, simultaneous frontal assaults with grenades and machine-guns on ten high-profile sites in or near the central business and tourism district.Also in *openDemocracy* on the assaults of November 2008 in Mumbai: Kanishk Tharoor, "What to make of the Mumbai attacks" (27 November 2008) This has affinities with the asymmetric street warfare waged by the gangs in Rio de Janeiro that every now and then announce they will take over a major central area of the city from (say) 9am to 5pm: the result is shuttered shops and empty streets. If the police try to respond, it is open warfare, and the police rarely win - this is a challengefor which the police are not trained. After 5pm the gangs withdraw. It is often said that all of this results from inadequate policing or crime waves. But that is too simple. There is a deeper transformation afoot. It is still rare but it is more frequently becoming visible. It is as if the centre no longer holds. Cities seem to be losing the capacity they have long had to triage conflict - through commerce, through civic activity. The national state, confronted with a similar conflict, has historically chosen to go to war. In my new research project - on cities and war - I am studyingwhether cities are losing this capacity and are becoming sites for a range of new types of violence. Further, the new asymmetric wars have the effect of urbanisingwar. This brings with it a nasty twist: when national states go to war in the name of national security, nowadays major cities are likely to become a key frontline space. In older conventional wars, large armies needed large open fields or oceans to meet and fight, and these were the frontline spaces. Today the search for national security may well become a source for urban insecurity. The "war on terror" reveals that cities become the theatres for asymmetric war, regardless of what side of the divide they are - allies or enemies. The attacks in Madrid, London, Casablanca, Bali, are symptomatic. So too is the United States's conventional military aerial bombing. It took under three weeks to destroy the Iraqi army's resistance and take over power in 2003. But then the asymmetric wars set in, with Baghdad, Mosul, Basra, and other Iraqi cities the sites of conflict - for years. Indeed, the fact that the Mumbai attackersevidently sought and prized Americans and British among the hostages they took, is clearly related to George W Bush's declaration of war on Iraq and Britain's supportive role. The traditional security paradigm based on national-state security does not accommodate this triangulation. What may be good to protect the national state apparatus may cost major cities and their people a high (increasingly high) price. In the dense and conflictivespaces of cities, a variety of forms of violence can be foreseen. Moreover, new kinds of crises may result from the major environmental disasters that are looming in our immediate futures. These will further challenge the traditional commercial and civic capacities that have allowed cities to avoid war when confronted with conflict. These crises could feed the violence that can arisefrom extreme economic inequality, and racial and religious conflicts. The results will be felt particularly in cities because of the often profound kinds of dependence of cities on complex systems - apartment buildings, hospitals, vast sewage systems, huge underground transport systems, whole electric grids - all of which rest on computerised management vulnerable to breakdowns. A major mock experiment by Nasa found that by the fifth day of a breakdown in the computerised systems that manage the electric grid, a city like New York would be *in extremis*. In Mumbai's tragedycan be glimpsed the image of a global future. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saskia Sassen is the Robert S Lynd professor of sociology and member, Committee on Global Thought, Columbia University. Her books include *Losing Control? Sovereignty in the Age of Globalization *(Columbia University Press, 1996) and *The Global City: New York, London, Tokyo *(Princeton University Press, 2001). Her latest book is *Territory, Authority, and Rights: From Medieval to Global Assemblages * (Princeton University Press, 2006), based on a five-year project on governance and accountability in a global economy This article is based on a larger project, based on her new project on Cities and War. A slightly different version was published in the *Huffington Post* (26 November 2008) Among Saskia Sassen's articles in *openDemocracy*: "A state of decay " (3 May 2006) *"*Globalisation, the state and the democratic deficit" (18 July 2007) "Lahore: urban space, niche repression" (21 November 2007) "The world's third spaces" (8 January 2008) "Fear and strange arithmetics..." (19 June 2008) From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 18:32:40 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 05:02:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <36168.42825.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   I would have liked to see your comment on the suggestion put forward by me:   """" ....the question arises for the Indian Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being the flag of Pakistan?"""""   For an Islamic flag, I would have thought that the most appropiate symbol (if one had to be used) would be 'Allah' or the 1st Kalima (La Il-Lah il Al-Lah).   In continuation, even if unconnected:   Organised Religion corrupts the Spiritual Quest. Organised religion needs Symbols. The Symbols often become the obsessive identification with the religion and the philosophy of the spiritual quest that in the first place led to the religion and it's symbols becomes secondary and gets ignored.    Symbols are interesting.   The Muslims of the Indian Subcontinent have adopted '786' as numerical representation of the invocation "Bismillal al Rehmaan Al Raheem". Most Purist Islamists consider it as "Biddah" (practice not associated with Mohammed and therefore an evil innovation).   The Hindus similarly seem to have adopted the "Trishul" (Trident) and "OM". I have yet to ascertain if either or both were used in the far far past in places where they logically would been. That is the temples.   The Christian Cross has an interesting variant in the Coptic Christian Cross, which has seen interesting evolution to it's current day design from Coptic Cross which was derived from the Coptic Gnostic (or Ankh) Cross which in turn was a mutation of the Egyptian Ankh (Hieroglyphic character).    Kshmendra       --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "Naeem Mohaiemen" , "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 4:32 PM Dear Kshmendra, Dear Naeem.  The crescent moon and star are not, strictly speaking an Islamic symbol. You are right. They happen to be the crest of the Ottoman ruling dynasty, which somehow got metastasized, since the rise of the Ottomans to the general Muslim world. You do not find it prior to the rise of the Ottoman caliphate (an episode quite late in Islamic history). its use by all sorts of Muslims, Ottoman or not, (many of them former subjects of the Ottoman empire) today, is an instance of their amnesia regarding the history of symbols and visual tropes in Islam On 03-Dec-08, at 4:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Naeem   Simi Garewal for sure has interviewed Benazir on her show "Rendezvous with Simi Garewal" for the 'Star World' channel   That is probably what you saw. I do not know of any other 'oldtime' actress who conducts interviews.   She has apologised for her "Pakistani Flags" comment. She missed the fact that 'those' flags did not have the vertical White Stripe. I guess since 'peace' was a casualty, the 'white stripe' was not taken into account.   That brings me to the question to educate myself. Where does the 'Crescent Moon and Star' motif  come from as an Islamic symbol?     All accounts suggest that it has nothing to do with Islam as such and predates Islam. The know linkage for introduction into Islamic Symbolism is after the Islamisation of Constantinople where it was already a part of the flag for the Ottomon Empire.   The Star is used on the flags of islamic countries with varying designs and numbers. The suggestion therefore that the Star if 5 pointed represents the 5 pillars of Islam does not seem to be valid.   If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag without the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being the flag of Pakistan?   Kshmendra       --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: [Reader-list] Simi Garewal? To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:18 PM On Jet Airways Dhaka-Delhi flight last week, there was a full-length interview of Benazir Bhutto that kept running on one channel. Very odd. But anyay, my question is, was the interviewer Simi Garewal or someone else? I can't keep the oldtime filmi stars straight, so I may have mixed her up. I ask because now I read reports of Simi G talking about "Pakistani flags" in India, so just trying to connect. But I may have the interviewer mixed up, can someone shed light? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list   List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list   List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:43:27 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 09:13:27 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Proud of a notion References: <6b79f1a70812022325ydc09cd0xf48aa674146b6ca8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9E24BCC1D77A4BE5972426A8FCF01AFD@tara> Hi all. The below article is perhaps the result of the kerla CM belonging to CPI(M) a party which is increasingly turning feudal. The left space in India has been hijacked by this party and now whatever party will do, even if attack the peasants and ordinary workers, the right wing media will conveniently have the left to write articles about. The author of the below article says, "the Left carries the intellectual baggage of Marxist internationalism" that comment is sadly so untrue in the context of left in India (even left without CPIM) The left discourse in India is increasingly turning to parochial interests, except ocasional America bashing. The exception, if any, are very few. The author sadly made this wrong claim and for the evidence he had this to say, "interventions for Sourav Ganguly by Bengal CPM leaders speak of a deeper, quasi-chauvinistic impulse." Does it also speak for "Marxist internationalism"? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawan Durani" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Proud of a notion > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/proud-of-a-notion/393506/ > > If one can hopefully treat the Kerala chief minister's remarks as a > one-off, the Mumbai tragedy has seen the continuation of the Left's > efforts, including earlier ones by Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, to find a > niche in the nationalist narrative. There was a time the Left was at > best indifferent to what are broadly called national security matters > or stories of patriotism. Recall the dismissive Left attitude to the > investigation into the 1998 Coimbatore blasts. Marxists then sounded > as if concerns over targeting senior political figures was just > over-excited bunkum. That is why CPM General Secretary Prakash Karat's > reference to Achuthanandan's "homage" to Sandeep Unnikrishnan is > important. Clearly, the Left's attitude to the armed forces and > national security is changing. But the Left's efforts are hobbled by > three problems. > > First, the Left carries the intellectual baggage of Marxist > internationalism. This has been discarded almost everywhere. But what > Raul Castro doesn't want to talk about and China's ultra-nationalist > communists hold in contempt still excites Left politicians in India. > The second reason why the Left seldom sounds convincing in its > periodic articulation of the idea of India is also thanks to theory. > > The "thinkers" in Delhi continue to be deeply suspicious of what they > see as the nationalist project of "privileged classes". This theory > comes up against two realities. Contrary to Marxist profundities, > material conditions never wholly explain the alchemy of nationalism. > Also, prosperity is increasing in India. Millions of people have been > added to what is described roughly as the middle class, and in rural > India the insufficient presence and therefore the hunger for, not > indifference to, modernity set the social and political context. Class > matters (so do, sadly, caste and religion), but what matters most is > the demand for a ticket to modern India. > > The third problem with leftist attempts to speak authoritatively for > India comes from praxis. The Left's electoral geography in India > disincentivises a pan-national political view. Bengal and Kerala, > mercifully, haven't been terrorist targets and so until recently the > Left's responses to Terror lacked energy. Indeed, the Left has been > more energetic on sub-nationalism — the Bengal CPM has in many ways > articulated "Bengali" grievances against "centres of power". The silly > interventions for Sourav Ganguly by Bengal CPM leaders speak of a > deeper, quasi-chauvinistic impulse. The neglect in taking on extremist > groups operating from Kerala is a more worrisome manifestation. It is > in India's interest of course that the Left find a better nationalist > voice. But it is even more in the Left's interest > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 20:39:57 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:09:57 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror References: Message-ID: <25EF0E27692B49ED81D048C7878915BD@tara> Hi Shuddha and all. By saying that these terrorists had not come to Mumbai to win, is perhaps true but this statement exhausts all other possibilities. What if I suggest that they had been sent to win for the Pakistani state? The reasons may be numerous and it looks like they have defeated India by achieving what their masters wanted to. Islam is perhaps only the opium to make the unsuspecting youth to die for the cause of Pakistan. I don't think I need to repeat what Pakistani state, or some apparatus of it, would have liked to achieve. Jingoists and ultra-patriots , and Pakistan state has no dearth of them, are not as emancipated as you are. They might be troubled with as petty reasons such as: Our enemy is getting rich whereas we have to succumb to IMF's demands to sustain ourselves. Every country is going to play cricket to India but they don't come here. Once we manage to shift the focus of discussion on India, we can dissuade our jihadis from going towards Afghanistan, thereby pleasing our all-time friend the US, and harming our all-time enemy India. No doubt, after the jingoistic statements are issued from India, the masters of Jihadi elements can mobilize their well-trained para-troops towards the "real enemy of Islam (Pakistan) So they have done it successfully: India's economy is going from bad to worse, tourists leaving to their countries, those who were coming to India mostly cancelled their booking, the money that could have gone to improve the economy will now go to repair the destroyed hotels, hospitals and other structures. The English cricket team has left India and may not come again at least for this season. The questions are being raised now about India's security preparedness for 2012 Common Wealth games and all other events before that. And lastly Taliban has recently offered for a ceasefire with Pakistan government so that the they can tackle with India together. Like always, you are right in saying "The two most important things we need to do is to stay calm, and keep our doubts alive." Our doubts should be kept alive even for the theories that rule out the involvement of Pakistani state. Let us remain calm till someone incident kills us or our near and dear ones and challenges our capacity to remain calm. Such attacks can happen again, you would have helped even more if you had suggested what should be done to stop them. You have very eloquently and correctly said what we shouldn't do but not what we should do. I don't think staying calm and being skeptical is enough for peace and harmony. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:24 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror > Thinking Through the Debris of Terror > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org) > > Last week's terror attacks on Mumbai, for which there can be no > justification whatsoever, have targetted railway stations, > restaurants, hospitals, places of worship, streets and hotels. These > are the places in which people gather. where the anonymous flux of > urban life finds refuge and sustenance on an everyday basis. By > attacking such sites, the protagonists of the recent terror attack > (like all their predecessors) echo the tropes of conventional warfare > as it developed in the twentieth century. These tactics valued the > objective of the escalation of terror and panic amongst civilians > higher than they viewed the neutralization of strictly military or > strategic targets. In a war without end, (which is one way of looking > at the twentieth century and its legacy) panic is the key weapon and > the most important objective. The terrorists who entered Bombay did > not come to win, or even to leverage a coherent set of demands. Their > only objective was panic. In that they succeeded, aided and abetted > by those sections of the media who translated their actions through > breathless, incessant and hysterical reportage. > > The history of the indiscriminate bombing of cities and inhabited > tracts as acts of war in modern times (from Guernica in Spain to > Dresden and London in the Second World War, to the bombing of > Cambodia in the 70s and the attacks on Baghdad in the Iraq War) > underscores the fact that the ultimate objective of contemporary > military actions is not the destruction of military or state assets > but the utter demoralization of the civilian population by deploying > disproportionate and massive force against the softest of possible > targets - unarmed, un-involved ordinary people. The terrorists who > caused mayhem in Bombay, and their mentors, wheresoever they may lie, > are no less remarkable in their lethal cynicism than those who > sanctioned the bombing of Baghdad in recent times. They were > interested in hurting people more than they were in tilting at the > windmills of power. If we accept the conjecture that the attacks were > authored by Islamist organizations based in Pakistan (which by itself > is not unlikely), then we also have to accept the irony that in their > actions they have mirrored and echoed the tactics of the military > leadership of the great powers they decry as their adversaries. > Terrorists and war criminals are replicas of each other. The > difference between them is only a matter of degree.The students have > learnt well from their teachers. > > No redemptive, just, honourable or worthwhile politically > transformatory objectives can be met, or even invoked, by attacking a > mass transit railway station, a restaurant, a hotel or a hospital. > The holding of hostages in a centre of worship and comfort for > travellers cannot and does not challenge any form of the state > oppression anywhere. The terrorists (I unhesitatingly call them > 'terrorists', a word which I am normally reluctant to use, because > their objective was nothing other than the terror itself) who > undertook these operations did not deal a single blow to the edifice > of oppression in this country, or in any other country. On the other > hand, they strengthened it. By helping to unleash calls for war, by > eliminating (unwittingly perhaps) those that have been investigating > the links between fringe far right groups and home grown terror, by > provoking once again the demand for stronger and more lethal > legislation for preventive detention (in the form of a revived or > resuscitated POTA), these terrorists have done statist and > authoritarian politics in India its biggest favour. The sinister and > lunatic fringe of far right politics of the Hindutva variety (which > seems to have acted hand in glove with rogue elements within the > security establishment) in particular, must be delighted to have been > gifted this latest horror on a platter without having had to work > hard for it. > > While the agents of the attack in Bombay may have been genuinely > motivated by their own twisted understanding of Islam, they have > demonstrated that they have no hesitation in putting millions of > Indian Muslims in harms way by exposing them to the risk of a long > drawn out of spiral of retaliation. We need to underscore that they > killed 40 innocent, unarmed Muslims (roughly 20 % of the current > total casualty figures of 179) while they unleashed their brutal > force on Bombay. The terrorists who authored their deaths cannot by > any stretch of imagination be seen as partisans or friends of Islam. > They are the enemy of us all, and especially of those amoungst us who > happen to be Muslims, for they jeopardize the safety and security of > all Muslims in India by unleashing yet another wave of suspicion and > prejudice against ordinary Muslims. Any effort to rationalize their > actions by reference to real or perceived injustices to Muslims in > India, is patronizing at best, and insensitive at worst. > > It is therefore neither surprising nor remarkable that several Muslim > organizations and individuals in India have unanimously condemned the > terror attacks and terrorism in general. The actions of the > terrorists (their purported statements as aired on India TV > notwithstanding) constitute an insult to anyone who is interested in > seriously addressing the discrimination faced by minorities in India. > > What is particularly reprehensible about the terrorist's actions is > their choice to target and kill unarmed Jewish travellers, a rabbi > and his wife. This choice was not accidental, these people were > targetted because of their religious affiliation and their ethnic > origins. The anti-semitic edge of contemporary Islamic Fundamentalism > has nothing whatsoever to do with any opposition to the oppressive > policies and practices of the state of Israel towards Palestinians. > Targetting Jews (who may or may not be Israeli) or individuals who > happen to be Israeli in a house of Jewish worship in Mumbai for the > actions of the State of Israel is not unlike attacking Carribean > Hindus and Hindu Indians at a Hindu temple in Trinidad for real or > imagined misdemeanours of the Republic of India. It would be similar > to attacking ordinary Indian, Pakistani or Somali Muslims and Iraqis > in retribution for the offences committed by the erstwhile Ba'athist > government of Iraq on Kurds. The Israeli government treats > Palestinians in occupied Palestine a shade better than Saddam > Hussain's Iraq treated Kurds. (Settlements in Gaza and the West Bank, > though they have no doubt borne the brunt of Israeli state terror, > have not to my knowledge been gassed by chemical weapons). Islamic > fundamentalist anti-semitism is as much an abomination as Hindu, > Christian or Jewish Fundamentalist or Secular Islamophobia anywhere > in the world. > > One of the theories doing the rounds of the underbelly of blogs and > mailing lists is that of 'Mossad-CIA' involvement in the attacks on > Bombay. While I have no doubt at all about the fact that > organizations such as the Mossad and the CIA are murderous and > unscrouplous in terms of their day to day operational existence and > that they have an active and corrosive agenda in South Asia. I find > the theory of their involvement in the Bombay terror attacks as far > fetched as the assumption that the Indian Ocean Tsunami was a result > of a Mossad-RAW conspiracy to test secret undersea weapons. Such > theories, which are closely related to the '9/11 was a Mossad job' > kind of wild conjecture, are a species of denial, and are often > propogated by credulous commentators and politicans, particularly in > the Muslim world (and their non-Muslim sympathisers), with a view to > maintaining the myth of the eternally victimised and wronged Muslim. > Such unsubstantiated conjectures and allegations do not help Muslims > in any way. On the contrary their whimsical non-seriousness > perpetuates the conditions that undermine responsible non-xenophobic > Muslim points of view from being taken seriously. > > Having said all this (which I believe is necessary to say), it is > equally important to address several other serious issues that have > raised their ugly heads in the aftermath of the attack on Bombay. > > The aftermath of the terrible recent events in Bombay contains a > great deal of debris. A spell of terror destroys so much, so quickly. > A lot gets damaged by violence. Lives are shattered, walls and roofs > collapse, entire neighbourhoods get devastated. Cities, sometimes the > populations of countries, find what gets called their 'spirit' broken. > > But one thing stays intact, and on occasion even finds new strength. > This one thing is a sense of wounded innocence, and the search for > easy fixes and answers. There can be nothing more dangerous at > present than this deadly combination of injured innocence and glib > macho loose talk. > > I would like to spend some time looking at the sources and > consequences of two specific kinds of loose talk which I will address > in turn. > > 1. War Mongering: The Indian state is an injured and innocent party, > and an attack like this gives India the right to conduct a military > campaign, even war, against Pakistan to finish once and for all, the > scourge of terrorism. As the botoxed visage of Simi Garewal screamed > on 'We the People' broadcast on NDTV two evenigns ago 'Carpet Bomb > those parts of Pakistan..." > > 2. Islamophobia : We can understand everything about the motives and > drives of the terrorists by pointing to their 'Muslim' identity. A > variant of this is - 'The Quran sanctions violence against > unbelievers, and that is all that we need to know in order to > understand the roots of the attacks in Bombay'. This kind of > sentiment is burgeoning on the internet, where it feeds the > testosterone overdrive of a certain kind of overzealous netizen who > sees the tragedy that has befallen Bombay as an opportunity to put > out a sick and prejudiced agenda. > > It should not come as a surprise that often, the two come linked. The > idiotic and jejune militarist fantasies of the hard Hindutva right > are a public secret. However, there are also many card carrying > secular nationalist 'war mongers' who see the times we are living > through as an opportunity to exhibit how much more 'patriotic' they > can be than their communal peers. Of course, these attitudes have > their exact mirrors in Pakistan. And a peculiar mirroring is > currently underway between Indian and Pakistani news channels, with > news anchors such as the hysterical Arnab Goswami (Times Now TV) in > India and his counterparts in Pakistan indulging in a perverse and > dangerous game of jingoistic one-upmanship. Even retired senior > officers of the armed forces who are sought out for comment and > analysis in television studios and politicians of parties such as the > BJP (neither of whom are necessarily known as models of moderation) > are acting with greater restraint than sections of the electronic > media. They (the BJP politicians) are at least at present not rushing > to talk of war (how could they, they have an election to contest in a > few months time, and an Indo-Pak military standoff that could work to > the advantage of the incumbent UPA government could really upset > their best calculatons). The retired soldiers by and large, speak > wisely of avoiding military options as far as is possible. It is only > the few news anchors who have let their place in the spotlights go to > their heads, (and their adolescent online clones) who are > consistently maintaining the shrilness of war-talk. > > Those speaking of war or punitive military strikes base their > arguments on the 'enough is enough' theory, that time has now come to > deal Pakistan a hard blow as a punitive action against letting its > territory being used against India. This line of reasoning assumes > that India is cast as the eternal victim and can never be seen as the > aggressor. > > If this is so, then (following this line of thiking) there is no > reason why India too should not have been carpet bombed for allowing > the use of its territory and resources for acts of terror against its > neighbours. The memory of news anchors may be as brief as the punchy > headlines of breaking news, but even a cursory examination of recent > history would show that the Indian state and elements within India > have sinned as much as they have been sinned against. > > In May 1984, for instance, the LTTE (at that time housed, armed, > funded and nourished by the Indian state led by Indira Gandhi) > conducted a brutal slaughter of around one hundred and twenty unarmed > and peaceful Buddhist pilgrims in and around one of Sri Lanka's > holiest Buddhist shrines in Anuradhapura. The Anuradhapura Massacre > caused great anguish and outrage in Sri Lanka at that time, and if we > accept the principles that prompt our 'studio-warriors' and 'online > dharamyoddhas' to call for the carpet-bombings of parts of Pakistan > then we have to admit that it was unfortunate that Sri Lanka did not > carpet bomb Delhi and Chennai. > > Perhaps as the comparatively militarily weaker neighbour of mighty > India, it may have found itself reluctant to imagine, let alone carry > out such a bizarre threat. Clearly, the nuclear fuelled fantasies of > militarist Indians brook no such reasons for reticence. I wonder > whether it is amnesia and the lack of a moral-ethical sense that > underwrites Indian militarism or is it the intoxication of arrogant > militarism that induces this dystopic inability to either remember > ones own state's history of complicity in terror or to behave > ethically and reasonably in times of crisis. > > Further, should a professional investigation into the devastating > attack on the Samjhauta Express train to Pakistan reveal that the > perpetrators of the attack were Hindu radicals assisted by rogue > elements within the military intelligence apparatus in India, would > Pakistan then be justified in 'carpet bombing' Pune, indore, Jammu > and other places linked to the cluster of organizations and > individuals around outfits such as 'Abhinav Bharat'? > > A military adventure into Pakistani held territory by Indian forces > at this current juncture can be nothing short of a disaster, It risks > taking South Asia and the world to the precipice of a nuclear > conflict. It has been pointed out by some idiots on television that > the United States is apparently safer today for having sent troops to > fight into Afghanistan and Iraq. The truth is, the United States has > made the world and Americans a great deal more unsafe , and a great > deal more vulnerable to terrorism, by the conduct of its wars in Iraq > and Afghanistan. The incidence of terrorism worldwide has increased > due to its intervention, and even the attacks on Bombay can in a > sense be seen as ricocheting off the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. > The deliberate targeting of British and American individuals by the > terrorists in Bombay last week demonstrates how unsafe it is to be > seen carrying an American passport today. If India is to be pulled > headlong into conflict with Pakistan as a result of the fall out of > the attacks on Bombay, the world will automatically and immediately > become a far more unsafe place. There will be more, not less > terrorism for us all to deal with. > > The only way for us to defeat terrorism in South Asia is for ordinary > Indians and Pakistanis to join hands across the Indo-Pak divide to > say that they will no longer tolerate the nurturing of terror, hate > and division in their societies through the covert and overt acts of > rogue elements in both their governments (which have a vested > interest in the continuity of conflict) and powerful non-state > actors in both societies. Neither POTA, nor military misadventures, > nor harder borders can defeat terrorism. A suicide bomber can only be > disarmed by the narrowing of the political and cultural space for > hatred within society to levels of utter insignificance. > > For this to occur, we all need to shed the cocoons of the assumptions > of our own innocence. The sooner we do so, the sooner we realize that > culpability in terror in South Asia is not a one way street with all > signs pointing only in the direction of Pakistan, the better it will > be for peace in our time. The automatic assumption of our own > innocence, especially at times when we perceive ourselves to the be > victims, is something we cannot afford to do. Whatever little > illusory comfort it may give us in the short run, it will rebound to > haunt us with unforgiving intensity. I > > f we are serious about putting an end to the seemingly endless spiral > of retributive violence behind us we have to exercise the hard and > necessary choice of leaving the discourse of 'martyrs', 'victims', > 'villains' and 'heroes' behind us. The media, and especially the > electronic media have a special role to play in this regard. They > have much introspection to do. It will not do to have jingoist > anchors and commentators protect their diminishing intelligence and > rising moral culpability in stoking the flames of war themselves with > the fig leaf of 'national psyche' and 'popular sentiment'. It is they > who fashion the chimera of 'popular sentiment' with their spin > doctoring, and it is unacceptable to see people refuse to take > responsibility for the very serious consequences of this dangerous spin. > > Finally, I come to the question of whether there is anything > specifically 'Islamic' about acts of terrorism such as we have > witnessed in Bombay last week. Under normal circumstances, such > ridiculous questions would not need any attention. Unfortunately, > these are not normal circumstances, and it is at times such as these, > that otherwise marginal irresponsibly articulated opinions get a > disproportionate velocity due to the way in which they circulate, > particularly on the internet and then leak out into the grit of > innuendo, insinuation, half-informed speculation and rumour in daily > conversation. > > One particularly pernicious communication that has been doing the > rounds of chain mails, and has already begun cropping up in blog > posts and discussion lists is the familiar litany of - "There are > suras (chapters) in the Quran that justify the slaughter of > unbelievers and what the terrorists were doing was only fulfilling > the commands of their faith". This kind of response asks us to assume > two things, > > One, that the source of the motivation for the terrorists actions was > predominantly scriptural (this bases itself somewhat on the scripture > laden rhetoric and vocabulary of the so-called 'Indian Mujahideen' > terror emails that accompanied previous attacks this year) > > Secondly, that if as a believing Muslim you do not follow quranic > injunctions to unleash violence, you are at best an insincere or > inconsistent Muslim, and the only true Muslim is the one who kills > unbelievers to earn his place in heavan. > > The first reduces the speechless complexity of a terrorists actions > to a few pithy and selectively quoted phrases. The second is an > insult to the lives, actions and convictions of the absolute majority > of believing Muslims. Both betray a singular and profound ignorance > of Islam, of the concept of jihad within Islam and an unwillingness > to engage with Islamic belief and the history of Islamicate societies. > > This(completely erroneously) view of all Muslims as mindless 'holy > warriors' takes the injunctions to do with the term 'jihad' (which > translates, not as 'holy war' as is commonly thought, but as > 'struggle') as referring solely to acts of violence. It needs to be > stated here, once again, as has been stated many times before,in many > different contexts, that 'jihad' within the theological context of > Islam is of two kinds, and that only one of these refers to the > conduct of armed struggle. The greater and more commendable jihad is > that which involves a personal struggle with one's own baser and > unethical propensities, which every believing Muslim is asked to > conduct as a spiritual cleansing process. The 'lesser jihad' concerns > specifically defensive military acts conducted against aggressors as > a last resort, when all else fails. > > The Quran is replete with statements such as 'to you your religion > and to me mine', or 'there can be no compulsion in religion'. When > the adherents of other religions are specifically mentioned by name > (Jews, Christians and Sabeans) it is said - > > "Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabeans (the followers of St. John > the Baptist or Hazrat Yahya) - whoever believes in Allah and the Last > Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord, they > have nothing to fear or to regret". (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:62) > > Jews are invoked as 'the children of Israel (Bani Israil) and in the > Quran, Allah only asks of them that they remain true to their faith. > There is not a trace of anti-semitism in the Quran. When certain Jews > are spoken of negatively, the statements echo the admonitions of the > Jewish scriptures by saying that 'those amongst the people of the > book who were of little faith' were worthy of God's disfavour. > Clearly, this indicates that 'those amongst the people of the book > who were NOT of little faith' are to be favoured, and in fact Allah > is heard saying in the Quran - > > "O Children of Israel, remember the favours I have bestowed upon you, > keep to your covenant, and I will keep to mine". (Sura Baqarah - The > Cow - 2:40) > > It is important to keep this in mind specifically with regard to the > special targeting of unarmed Jews by the terrorists in Bombay. Their > acts, in this specific instance stand in direct contradiction to the > spirit of the Quran. While there are anti-semitic traces in the > Ahadis (the reported traditions of the prophet that were accumulated > and collated over the centuries), there is no unanimity or consensus > amongst believing Muslims about the authenticity of different > 'isnads' (lines of transmission) attatched to different Ahadis. > Therefore, in instances of ambiguity, as with regard to the attitude > to Jews and those of other faiths, it is only the unquestioned > authority of the Quran that can be seen as acting as the final > arbiter and guide. From this standpoint alone, the anti-semitic edge > of the terrorists actions in Bombay last week can be justifiably > condemned as anathema by all believing Muslims. > > Generally speaking, the quote that is most commonly hurled by > Islamophobes is - > "Kill them wherever you find them, drive them out of the places from > which they drove you" (Sura Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). This > verse was given to the prophet Mohammad before the advent of a major > battle when all attempts at arriving at peaceful negotiations had > been exhausted, and when the Prophet and his fledgeling community in > Medina were in danger of being exterminated by invasive aggression. > The injunctions are specific, they apply only to retaliation against > armed bodies of men who have acted as aggressors. > > What is omitted when these verses are hurled, either by Islamophobes, > or by Islamists, is that they follow immediately from the injunction > that says - > > "fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do > not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressor" (Sura > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > It is also followed by the equally specific injunction "but if they > mend their ways, know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.. but if > they mend their ways, fight none other than the evil-doers." (Sura > Baqarah - The Cow - 2:190-191). > > So, we have repeated caveats, repeated qualifications - 'do not be > the aggressor', 'fight only if they fight you', 'cease armed action > if they see reason' that immediately surround the quote that is so > often pulled out at times like this like a tired rabbit from a > magicians hat. And yet, the sleight of hand continues. > > By what stretch of imagination can a chef's assistant in a hotel, or > a rabbi's wife, or passengers trying to get to second class railway > carriages or children who live on the street, ordinary Muslims, or > police officers trying to investigate the terrorist outrages > purportedly undertaken by radicals who happen to be Hindus with a > view to intimidating ordinary Muslims be seen as 'aggressors' against > Islam? By which Quranic injunction can we justify acts of aggression > against such individuals? > > Once again, by their concrete actions, the terrorists have > demonstrated not their fidelity, but their sharp deviance from the > letter and spirit of the Quran. Those motivated and prejudiced > slanderers who circulate the insinuations about the 'Islamic' > provenance of the terrorists actions are actually just as much guilty > of spreading a mistaken understanding of Islam as the terrorists > themselves. In fact, objectively, once again, Isamophobes and > Islamists, are not advesaries, but allies. > > The lineage of the terrorists who attacked Bombay is better traced to > those vicious acts of twentieth and twenty-first century terror which > feature self styled protagonists of all the faiths and ideologies > that mark our modern world. They are to be found as much amongst the > New Age-Buddhist-Hindu hybrid of Aum Shirin Kyo, the Branch > Davidians, the Balinese Hindu vigilantes who slaughtered 40,000 > unarmed Indonesian Communists and their suspected sympathisers in > 1965, the ultra-left and far-right radicals of West Germany, Japan > and Italy in the seventies and the hardened callousness of > Palestinian, Egyptian, Israeli, Peruvian, Basque and Irish terrorism > as much as it is to be located in the enigmas known as the LTTE (all > factions) , the Lashkar-e- Taiba, Jaish-e- Mohammad, HUJI, Indian > Mujahideen and Al-Qaida. Each of these organizations has contributed > more than anything else to the hardening of structures of state > power. As such, they, like the Indian Maoists and Salwa Judum , and > the ingredients of the alphabet soup of insurgent and counter- > insugent outfits operating through the length and breadth of India, > Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma are the objective agent-provcateurs of > reactionary, authoritarian, statist politics. Terrorism, whatever > else it may be, is in the end, the mightiest secret weapon in the > arsenal of the state to beat and badger a terrified population into > meek submission by creating a situation where the surrender and > abdication of civil rights is seen as a normalized and natural > response to a mounting crisis. > > Even a brief history of the limited genre of terrorist actions such > as 'hotel bombings and attacks' reveals a rainbow hued ecumenical > pantheon of contemporary terror. The attacks on the Taj and the > Obeori Trident (which constituted the spectacular telegenic apex of > the Bombay attacks) need to be seen as successors to the Marriott > Hotel bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan of only a few months ago, the > bombings of the Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt and Days Inn Hotels in > Amman, Jordan in 2005, the bombing of the Grand Hotel in Brighton, UK > by the Provisional IRA in 1984, the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in > Sydney, Australia by suspected Ananda Marg radicals in 1978 and last, > but certainly not the least, the King David Hotel Bombing in > Jerusalem, (then Palestine) in 1946 carried out by Irgun, a terrorist > organization wedded to the Zionist ideal of a Jewish state in Palestine. > > If hotel massacres were something like cricket scores, then we could > say that the Bombay attacks have finally surpassed the hitherto all > time high 'score' of the King David Hotel Massacre of 1946. The > Irgun, a terrorist outfit espousing an ostensibly 'Jewish' and > supposedly 'Zionist' cause had held till date the record of maximum > caualties for this outrage. 93 dead. The Bombay attacks, apparently > authored by militant Islamists, have gone higher. Those who identify > terrorism with Islam today would find themselves faced with the > uncomfortable fact that as far as the lethality of attacks go, the > bar was raised early, and high, by self-styled 'Jewish freedom > fighters' who counted amongst their ranks the then future prime > minister of the state of Israel, Menahem Begin. The Islamists have > once again proved how imitative they are of the militant far-right > edge of Zionism. Again, the students have learnt well from their > historical teachers. > > Begin (who is somewhat of an icon amongst many current islamophobic > zealots of the 'war against terror' for the hard line that he took in > Lebanon against the PLO ad its Lebanese allies and against violent as > well as non violent forms of Palestinian resistance) is himself > reported to have said while referring to the period in which the King > David Hotel Massacre took place - "We actually provided the example > of what the urban guerrilla is, we created the method of the urban > guerrilla." - see - 'By Blood and Fire: The Attack on Jerusalem's > King David Hotel' by Thurston Clarke, Hutchinson, 1981 > > To extrapolate from the specatcular successes of self styled 'Jewish' > terrorism in Palestine under the British Mandate in the 1930s and 40s > to a generalized theory of 'Jewish' Terrorism would have been as > prejudiced and short sighted then (and many efforts were made in this > direction) as the current efforts to give current global terror a > 'Muslim' face are today. In fact the ancestors and first cousins of > today's Islamophobic zealots are yesterday's and today's anti-semitic > rabble rousers. Sometimes, at the outer edges and wild fringes of the > global far right, they still do meet. The irony in the fact that > here, they often find themselves in the convivial company of self > styled 'Hindu', 'Christian', 'Neo-Nazi' and even 'Jewish' radicals is > inescapable, whose agendas merge and diverge like the courses of > unpredictable rivers. > > The 'Jewish' bombers who took down the King David Hotel in 1946 > entered it carrying milk cans laden with explosives in the guise of > 'Muslim Arab' milkmen. Reports of the earlier round of Malegaon and > Nanded blasts featured instances of the possibility of 'Hindu' > radicals donning fake beards and 'Muslim' guises to plant bombs. > Reports of the recent Bombay attacks suggest that the 'Muslims' who > entered the Taj and the Trident hotels wore red threads around their > wrists and had smeared their foreheads with 'tilaks' in order to > appear as 'Hindus'. What this 'tragedy of errors' suggests that as > far as terrorists are concerned, identity is a masquerade. Jews and > Hindus cross-dress as Muslims, Muslims appear in Hindu drag. In > killing and dying, they cross the line and embrace the identity of > the very other that they ostensibly hate. It is only we, the > witnesses and the vicarious spectators of this masquerade, the rag- > pickers in the debris of their actions, who obsess about the > 'reality' of their identities. By doing this we follow what is > scripted for our bit parts in this charade to the hilt. When the > curtain calls come, we, the chorus, the extras, are all lined up > behind the principal actors, taking a bow. They were their costumes, > we are naked in our incredulity. > > The actions of a terrorist are neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor > Jewish, nor Christian, nor a Sikh, nor Communist, nor Anarchist, The > terrorist is simply the emissary and executioner of of the > mediocrity of organized violence, and an agent acting for a number of > overlapping shadowy state and non-stage clients of different > provenances, whose identities may be obscure even to him. > > This profound ambiguity, if nothing else, should prompt us to be > moderate and reasonable in our responses to the spectacle of terror. > To buy into its proffered illusion of certainty is perhaps one of the > greatest signs of submission that we can offer to those who have > nothing other than terror to give us. Surely, we can be more > intelligent, imaginative, self-aware, sceptical and compassionate. > The two most important things we need to do is to stay calm, and keep > our doubts alive. > > END > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Dec 3 20:55:00 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:55:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thinking Through the Debris of Terror In-Reply-To: <25EF0E27692B49ED81D048C7878915BD@tara> References: <25EF0E27692B49ED81D048C7878915BD@tara> Message-ID: Dear Prakash, Thank you for your response On 03-Dec-08, at 8:39 PM, taraprakash wrote: > you would have helped even more if you had suggested what should be > done to stop them. i said "The only way for us to defeat terrorism in South Asia is for ordinary Indians and Pakistanis to join hands across the Indo-Pak divide to say that they will no longer tolerate the nurturing of terror, hate and division in their societies through the covert and overt acts of rogue elements in both their governments (which have a vested interest in the continuity of conflict) and powerful non- state actors in both societies. Neither POTA, nor military misadventures, nor harder borders can defeat terrorism. A suicide bomber can only be disarmed by the narrowing of the political and cultural space for hatred within society to levels of utter insignificance." you say "Our doubts should be kept alive even for the theories that rule out the involvement of Pakistani state." I have not ruled out the involvement in this incident either of rogue elements within the Pakistani state, or non-state actors located in Pakistan. I have no interest in defending the actions of the corrupt ruling elites of Pakistan, or the fanatical fundamentalist forces that hold much of Pakistani society hostage. I think that the people of India and Pakistan need to find imaginative and intelligent ways to confront the forces (within and outside the state apparatuses in both our societies) that hold us all in thrall. I do not think this can be done overnight. There are no quick fixes. We have to realize that we are in this for the long haul I also do not rule out the involvement of rogue elements within the Indian state or powerful non-state actors within India in much else of what has happened in recent history. I have pointed out that India, nurtured, nourished, armed and abetted the LTTE when it attacked innocent civilians in Sri Lanka in 1984. i do not think that this meant that Sri Lanka would have been wise in launching armed aggression against India. I just do not think or believe for a moment that war is a solution to any of this. I am not here to offer solutions. But I can see a disaster in the making when it masquerades as a solution. War, or the unilateral use of force by the Indian state in a military mis- adventure would be a disaster. The doubts I suggest we all keep alive have to do with confronting the immense certainty that allows terrorists and combatants to unleash violence on others and on themselves. I think hesitation, reticence, scepticism about the edifices of national, religious and ethnic identity that we have all been fed since childhood are actually life savers at this moment. If we all admit that we are all incomplete versions of the things we say we are, it might be a little more difficult to pick up a gun and defend that identity. That is all i am saying. best Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 21:35:05 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:05:05 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Amitav Ghosh: India's 9/11? Not Exactly Message-ID: India's 9/11? Not Exactly By AMITAV GHOSH Published: December 2, 2008 SINCE the terrorist assaults began in Mumbai last week, the metaphor of the World Trade Center attacks has been repeatedly invoked. From New Delhi to New York, pundits and TV commentators have insisted that "this is India's 9/11" and should be treated as such. Nearly every newspaper in India has put "9/11" into its post-massacre headlines. The secretary general of the Bharatiya Janata Party, the leading Hindu nationalist political faction, has not only likened the Mumbai attack to those on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, but has insisted that "our response must be close to what the American response was." There can be no doubt that there are certain clear analogies between the two attacks: in both cases the terrorists were clearly at great pains to single out urban landmarks, especially those that serve as symbolic points of reference in this increasingly interconnected world. There are similarities, too, in the unexpectedness of the attacks, the meticulousness of their planning, their shock value and the utter unpreparedness of the security services. But this is where the similarities end. Not only were the casualties far greater on Sept. 11, 2001, but the shock of the attack was also greatly magnified by having no real precedent in America's history. India's experience of terrorist attacks, on the other hand, far predates 2001. Although this year has been one of the worst in recent history, 1984 was arguably worse still. That year an insurgency in the Punjab culminated in the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. This in turn led to riots that took the lives of some 2,000 Sikhs. I was living in Delhi then and I recall vividly the sense of besetting crisis, of extreme fragility, of being pushed to the edge of an abyss: it was the only time I can recall when the very project of the Indian republic seemed to be seriously endangered. Yet for all its horror, the portents of 1984 were by no means fulfilled: in the following years, there was a slow turnaround; the Punjab insurgency gradually quieted down; and although the victims of the massacres may never receive justice in full measure, there has been some judicial retribution. This has been another terrible year: even before the invasion of Mumbai, several hundred people had been killed and injured in terrorist assaults. Yet the attacks on Jaipur, Ahmedabad, New Delhi, Guwahati and elsewhere did not set off chains of retaliatory violence of the sort that would almost certainly have resulted 10 or 15 years ago. Nor did the violence create a sense of existential crisis for the nation, as in 1984. Thus, despite all loss of life, this year could well be counted as a victory not for terrorism but for India's citizenry. The question now is this: Will the November invasion of Mumbai change this? Although there is no way of knowing the answer, it is certain that if the precedent of 9/11 is taken seriously the outcome will be profoundly counterproductive. As a metaphor "9/11" is invested not just with the memory of what happened in Manhattan and at the Pentagon in 2001, but also with the penumbra of emotions that surround the events: the feeling that "the world will never be the same," the notion that this was "the day the world woke up" and so on. In this sense 9/11 refers not just to the attacks but also to its aftermath, in particular to an utterly misconceived military and judicial response, one that has had disastrous consequences around the world. When commentators repeat the metaphor of 9/11 they are in effect pushing the Indian government to mount a comparable response. If India takes a hard line modeled on the actions of the Bush administration, the consequences are sure to be equally disastrous. The very power of the 9/11 metaphor blinds us to the possibility that there might be other, more productive analogies for the invasion of Mumbai: one is the Madrid train bombings of March 11, 2004, which led to a comparable number of casualties and created a similar sense of shock and grief. (Page 2 of 2) If 9/11 is a metaphor for one kind of reaction to terrorism, then 11-M (as it is known in Spanish) should serve as shorthand for a different kind of response: one that emphasizes vigilance, patience and careful police work in coordination with neighboring countries. This is exactly the kind of response India needs now, and fortunately this seems to be the course that the government, led by the Congress Party, has decided to follow. Government spokesmen have been at some pains to specify that India does not intend to respond with a troop buildup along the border with Pakistan, as the Bharatiya Janata-led government did after the attack by Muslim extremists on India's Parliament in 2001. Skip to next paragraph Readers' Comments Share your thoughts. * Post a Comment » * Read All Comments (36) » A buildup would indeed serve no point at all, since this is not the kind of war that can be fought along a border, by conventional armies. The Indian government would do better to focus on an international effort to eliminate the terrorists' hide-outs and safe houses, some of them deep inside Pakistan. India will also need to cooperate with those in the Pakistani government who have come around to a belated recognition of the dangers of terrorism. The choice of targets in Mumbai clearly owes something to the September bombing of the Islamabad Marriott, another high-profile site sure to include foreign casualties. Here already there is common ground between the two countries — for if this has been a bad year for India in regard to terrorism, then for Pakistan it has been still worse. It is clear now that Pakistan's establishment is so deeply divided that it no longer makes sense to treat it as a single entity. Sometimes a crisis is also an opportunity: this is a moment when India can forge strategic alliances with those sections of the Pakistani government, military and society who understand that they, too, are under fire. Much will depend, in the coming days, on Mumbai's reaction to the invasion. That the city was not stricken by turmoil in the immediate aftermath of the attack is undoubtedly a positive sign. That the terrorists concentrated their assault on the most upscale parts of the city had the odd consequence of limiting the disruption in the everyday lives of most Mumbai residents. Chhatrapati Shivaji station, for instance, was open just a few hours after the terrorists there were cleared out. In the northern suburbs, the home of Bollywood's studios, actors were summoned to rehearsal even while the battles were being fought. But with each succeeding day, tensions are rising and the natural anxieties of the inhabitants are being played upon. Still, this is not a moment for precipitate action: if India can react with dispassionate but determined resolve, then 2008 may yet be remembered as a moment when the tide turned in a long, long battle. For if there is any one lesson to be learned from the wave of terrorist attacks that has convulsed the globe over the last decade it is this: Defeat or victory is not determined by the success of the strike itself; it is determined by the response From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 22:36:39 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:06:39 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Calling all Pakistanis by THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Message-ID: <0838E5A171134CE9A96E06B0AE75E93B@tara> Calling All Pakistanis. By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN. On Feb. 6, 2006, three Pakistanis died in Peshawar and Lahore during violent street protests against Danish cartoons that had satirized the Prophet Muhammad. More such mass protests followed weeks later. When Pakistanis and other Muslims are willing to take to the streets, even suffer death, to protest an insulting cartoon published in Denmark, is it fair to ask: Who in the Muslim world, who in Pakistan, is ready to take to the streets to protest the mass murders of real people, not cartoon characters, right next door in Mumbai? After all, if 10 young Indians from a splinter wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party traveled by boat to Pakistan, shot up two hotels in Karachi and the central train station, killed at least 173 people, and then, for good measure, murdered the imam and his wife at a Saudi-financed mosque while they were cradling their 2-year-old son -- purely because they were Sunni Muslims -- where would we be today? The entire Muslim world would be aflame and in the streets. So what can we expect from Pakistan and the wider Muslim world after Mumbai? India says its interrogation of the surviving terrorist indicates that all 10 men come from the Pakistani port of Karachi, and at least one, if not all 10, were Pakistani nationals. First of all, it seems to me that the Pakistani government, which is extremely weak to begin with, has been taking this mass murder very seriously, and, for now, no official connection between the terrorists and elements of the Pakistani security services has been uncovered. At the same time, any reading of the Pakistani English-language press reveals Pakistani voices expressing real anguish and horror over this incident. Take for instance the Inter Press Service news agency article of Nov. 29 from Karachi: ' 'I feel a great fear that [the Mumbai violence] will adversely affect Pakistan and India relations,' the prominent Karachi-based feminist poet and writer Attiya Dawood told I.P.S. 'I can't say whether Pakistan is involved or not, but whoever is involved, it is not the ordinary people of Pakistan, like myself, or my daughters. We are with our Indian brothers and sisters in their pain and sorrow.' But while the Pakistani government's sober response is important, and the sincere expressions of outrage by individual Pakistanis are critical, I am still hoping for more. I am still hoping -- just once -- for that mass demonstration of 'ordinary people' against the Mumbai bombers, not for my sake, not for India's sake, but for Pakistan's sake. Why? Because it takes a village. The best defense against this kind of murderous violence is to limit the pool of recruits, and the only way to do that is for the home society to isolate, condemn and denounce publicly and repeatedly the murderers -- and not amplify, ignore, glorify, justify or 'explain' their activities. Sure, better intelligence is important. And, yes, better SWAT teams are critical to defeating the perpetrators quickly before they can do much damage. But at the end of the day, terrorists often are just acting on what they sense the majority really wants but doesn't dare do or say. That is why the most powerful deterrent to their behavior is when the community as a whole says: 'No more. What you have done in murdering defenseless men, women and children has brought shame on us and on you. Why should Pakistanis do that? Because you can't have a healthy society that tolerates in any way its own sons going into a modern city, anywhere, and just murdering everyone in sight -- including some 40 other Muslims -- in a suicide-murder operation, without even bothering to leave a note. Because the act was their note, and destroying just to destroy was their goal. If you do that with enemies abroad, you will do that with enemies at home and destroy your own society in the process. I often make the comparison to Catholics during the pedophile priest scandal,' a Muslim woman friend wrote me. Those Catholics that left the church or spoke out against the church were not trying to prove to anyone that they are anti-pedophile. Nor were they apologizing for Catholics, or trying to make the point that this is not Catholicism to the non-Catholic world. They spoke out because they wanted to influence the church. They wanted to fix a terrible problem' in their own religious community. We know from the Danish cartoons affair that Pakistanis and other Muslims know how to mobilize quickly to express their heartfelt feelings, not just as individuals, but as a powerful collective. That is what is needed here. Because, I repeat, this kind of murderous violence only stops when the village -- all the good people in Pakistan, including the community elders and spiritual leaders who want a decent future for their country -- declares, as a collective, that those who carry out such murders are shameful unbelievers who will not dance with virgins in heaven but burn in hell. And they do it with the same vehemence with which they denounce Danish cartoons. From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 22:56:01 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:26:01 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Jews of Mumbai, a Tiny and Eclectic Group, Suddenly Reconsider Their Serene Existence Message-ID: Jews of Mumbai, a Tiny and Eclectic Group, Suddenly Reconsider Their Serene Existence. By JEREMY KAHN. MUMBAI, India. The peeling turquoise facade of the colonial-era Keneseth Eliyahoo Synagogue in the heart of the city's financial district has long been a tourist attraction, a reminder of the centuries of Jewish influence that have helped shape Mumbai and of the acceptance Jews have enjoyed here. But after the terrorist attacks last week, Mumbai's Jews are dismayed to find another building suddenly vying with the 124-year-old synagogue as a symbol of their presence: the charred remains of Nariman House, where gunmen killed Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, his wife, Rivka, and four other Jews. Although none of the Jews killed in the terrorists' assault on Nariman House, the community center run by the Chabad-Lubavitch movement, were Indian citizens, the attacks have badly shaken Jews in India. Mumbai has about 4,000 Jewish residents, accounting for a vast majority of India's Jewish population. This is the first time when a Jew has been targeted in India because he is a Jew,' said Jonathon Solomon, a Mumbai lawyer and president of the Indian Jewish Federation. The tradition of the last thousand years has been breached. The origins of India's Jews remain uncertain, but according to some accounts they may have come as emissaries from the court of King Solomon. They established communities and lived peacefully with Hindus, Jains, Buddhists and, later, Muslims. The absence of anti-Semitism throughout this history has been a source of pride in India. This is one of the few countries where Jews never faced discrimination and persecution,' said Ezekiel Isaac Malekar, a leader of the Jewish community in New Delhi. Jews played a prominent role in several coastal cities, but nowhere more so than in Mumbai. Jewish merchants from Iraq, Syria and other Middle Eastern countries arrived in the late 18th century in what was then British Bombay and quickly established themselves as leading businessmen, opening textile mills and international trading companies. Only about 200 of these so-called Baghdadi Jews remain in Mumbai, with the rest having immigrated to Israel, Britain and the United States. But their legacy endures: synagogues, libraries and schools, many of which serve Jews and non-Jews. They also financed the construction of several city landmarks, including the Flora Fountain and the Sassoon docks. Today, most of Mumbai's Jews have roots in a group known as the Bene Israel community, which claims to be descended from seven Jewish families who were shipwrecked on India's shore while fleeing persecution in the Galilee during the second century B.C. Over the centuries, they adopted Indian language, dress and cuisine. Since India became independent, these Jews have often played influential roles in Indian society, including in government and Bollywood. We always felt we were Indians first and Jews second,' said Mr. Malekar, a Bene Israel Jew. That sensibility has been shattered by the siege of Nariman House. This attack has really shaken us up,' said a Jewish educator in Mumbai who spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear for his safety. If with such ease they could finish off the whole Chabad House -- the property and the people -- now we have to have a fresh look at our own security. Many Jewish institutions have remained closed this week as a security precaution. Jewish leaders said they might have to begin restricting access to synagogues and community centers. Jewish institutions in India are soft targets,' Mr. Solomon said. After being used to living fearless for so long we are going through a phase where we are debating with ourselves about being careful and whether we need to change our mode of existence. Heightening anxieties is the location of many of Mumbai's synagogues, which are now in predominantly Muslim neighborhoods. Historically, relations between the two religious groups in Mumbai have been good. They live with us as brothers and in brotherhood we also live with them,' said Solomon Sopher, chairman and managing trustee of the Sir Jacob Sassoon and Allied Trusts, which manages several Jewish institutions, including a high school that was founded as a Jewish school but now enrolls mostly Muslims. After the terrorist assaults, some Mumbai Jews said they were increasingly apprehensive about their Muslim neighbors. Mr. Solomon said the attack convinced him of the need for India's Jews to seek official recognition as a minority group. Such status confers privileges, including reserved places for admission to universities and for government jobs. More important, Mr. Solomon said, it would require the Indian government to protect the Jewish community from persecution. In the past, the Indian government has argued that there are too few Jews in the country to grant minority status. Many Mumbai Jews said they had limited interaction with Rabbi Holtzberg and Chabad House, whose activities were focused on Orthodox Jews visiting from abroad and encouraging greater religious observance among young Israeli backpackers. Few Jews live in the Colaba neighborhood where Nariman House is, having moved to more affluent areas in northern and western parts of the city. In addition, the Lubavitchers' ultra-Orthodox practices are much stricter than the observance of most Mumbai Jews. But Rabbi Holtzberg did preside over Sabbath services every Friday at the Keneseth Eliyahoo Synagogue. He also conducted religious study classes and helped supply the city's more religious Jews with kosher meat. Some Jews said the attacks were likely to foster closer ties within the city's Jewish population, which in the past had been deeply divided between the Baghdadi community and the Bene Israel group, although those tensions were easing as the city's Jewish population dwindled. Representatives from both Indian Jewish communities, as well as Chabad, mourned the Holtzbergs and the other Jewish victims from Nariman House at a memorial service on Monday. Mr. Solomon, who described himself as a secular Jew, said he would be sure to visit the Chabad House when it reopens. A new rabbi, Dov Goldberg, has already been selected. Next time it opens, I will make it a point of going to show my solidarity with them,' Mr. Solomon said. I suppose the same will go for many members of our community. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 23:08:56 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:38:56 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Jews of Mumbai, a Tiny and Eclectic Group, Suddenly Reconsider Their Serene Existence Message-ID: I hope Mumbai's Jewish community will stay on in spite of this horrific incident. On the Dhaka University campus, there is a Gurdwara. It has always intrigued me because the Sikh community of Bangladesh cannot number more than a handful. Or similarly the last remaining Armenian Church in Old Dhaka (in the Armanitola area). I am serene at the thought of these small islands of other worlds, that thankfully break up the monoculture some people are pushing. > Subject: [Reader-list] Jews of Mumbai, a Tiny and Eclectic Group, From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 23:57:19 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:27:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India? Message-ID: <997752.20258.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Read this interesting critique of TV coverage of the attacks in Mumbai... Date: Nov 29, 2008 10:48 PM Subject: Media terror To: Chennai group Cc: IHRO Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India? Gnani Sankaran- Tamil writer, Chennai. Watching at least four English news channels, surfing from one another during the last 60 hours of terror strike made me feel a terror of another kind, the terror of assaulting one's mind and sensitivity with cameras, sound bites and non-stop blabbers. All these channels have been trying to manufacture my consent for a big lie called - Hotel Taj the icon of India. Whose India, Whose Icon? It is a matter of great shame that these channels simply did not bother about the other icon that faced the first attack from terrorists - the Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) railway station. CST is the true icon of Mumbai. It is through this railway station hundreds of Indians from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Tamilnadu have poured into Mumbai over the years, transforming themselves into Mumbaikars and built the Mumbai of today along with the Marathis and Kolis But the channels would not recognise this. Nor would they recognise the thirty odd dead bodies strewn all over the platform of CST. No Barkha Dutt went there to tell us who they were. But she was at Taj to show us the damaged furniture and reception lobby braving the guards. And the TV cameras did not go to the government run JJ hospital to find out who those 26 unidentified bodies were. Instead they were again invading the battered Taj to try in vain for a scoop shot of the dead bodies of the page 3 celebrities. In all probability, the unidentified bodies could be those of workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh migrating to Mumbai, arriving by train at CST without cell phones and pan cards to identify them. Even after 60 hours after the CST massacre, no channel has bothered to cover in detail what transpired there. The channels conveniently failed to acknowledge that the Aam Aadmis of India surviving in Mumbai were not affected by Taj, Oberoi and Trident closing down for a couple of weeks or months. What mattered to them was the stoppage of BEST buses and suburban trains even for one hour. But the channels were not covering that aspect of the terror attack. Such information at best merited a scroll line, while the cameras have to be dedicated for real time thriller unfolding at Taj or Nariman Bhavan. The so called justification for the hype the channels built around heritage site Taj falling down (CST is also a heritage site), is that Hotel Taj is where the rich and the powerful of India and the globe congregate. It is a symbol or icon of power of money and politics, not India. It is the icon of the financiers and swindlers of India. The Mumbai and India were built by the Aam Aadmis who passed through CST and Taj was the oasis of peace and privacy for those who wielded power over these mass of labouring classes. Leopold club and Taj were the haunts of rich spoilt kids who would drive their vehicles over sleeping Aam Aadmis on the pavement, the Mafiosi of Mumbai forever financing the glitterati of Bollywood (and also the terrorists) , Political brokers and industrialists. It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people that the terrorists chose to strike. The terrorists have understood after several efforts that the Aam Aadmi will never break down even if you bomb her markets and trains. He/she was resilient because that is the only way he/she can even survive. Resilience was another word that annoyed the pundits of news channels and their patrons this time. What resilience, enough is enough, said Pranoy Roy's channel on the left side of the channel spectrum. Same sentiments were echoed by Arnab Goswami representing the right wing of the broadcast media whose time is now. Can Rajdeep be far behind in this game of one-upmanship over TRPs ? They all attacked resilience this time. They wanted firm action from the government in tackling terror. The same channels celebrated resilience when bombs went off in trains and markets killing and maiming the Aam Aadmis. The resilience of the ordinary worker suited the rich business class of Mumbai since work or manufacture or film shooting did not stop. When it came to them, the rich shamelessly exhibited their lack of nerves and refused to be resilient themselves. They cry for government intervention now to protect their private spas and swimming pools and bars and restaurants, similar to the way in which Citibank, General Motors and the ilk cry for government money when their coffers are emptied by their own ideologies. The terrorists have learnt that the ordinary Indian is unperturbed by terror. For one whose daily existence itself is a terror of government sponsored inflation and market sponsored exclusion, pain is something he has learnt to live with. The rich of Mumbai and India Inc are facing the pain for the first time and learning about it just as the middle classes of India learnt about violation of human rights only during emergency, a cool 28 years after independence. And human rights were another favourite issue for the channels to whip at times of terrorism. Arnab Goswami in an animated voice wondered where were those champions of human rights now, not to be seen applauding the brave and selfless police officers who gave up their life in fighting terrorism. Well, the counter question would be where were you when such officers were violating the human rights of Aam Aadmis. Has there ever been any 24 hour non stop coverage of violence against dalits and adivasis of this country? This definitely was not the time to manufacture consent for the extra legal and third degree methods of interrogation of police and army but Arnabs don't miss a single opportunity to serve their class masters, this time the jingoistic patriotism came in handy to whitewash the entire uniformed services. The sacrifice of the commandos or the police officers who went down dying at the hands of ruthless terrorists is no doubt heart rending but in vain in a situation which needed not just bran but also brain. Israel has a point when it says the operations were misplanned resulting in the death of its nationals here. Kakares and Salaskars would not be dead if they did not commit the mistake of travelling by the same vehicle. It is a basic lesson in management that the top brass should never travel together in crisis. The terrorists, if only they had watched the channels, would have laughed their hearts out when the Chief of the Marine commandos, an elite force, masking his face so unprofessionally in a see-through cloth, told the media that the commandos had no idea about the structure of the Hotel Taj which they were trying to liberate. But the terrorists knew the place thoroughly, he acknowledged. Is it so difficult to obtain a ground plan of Hotel Taj and discuss operation strategy thoroughly for at least one hour before entering? This is something even an event manager would first ask for, if he had to fix 25 audio systems and 50 CCtvs for a cultural event in a hotel. Would not Ratan Tata have provided a plan of his ancestral hotel to the commandos within one hour considering the mighty apparatus at his and government's disposal? Are satellite pictures only available for terrorists and not the government agencies? In an operation known to consume time, one more hour for preparation would have only improved the efficiency of execution. Sacrifices become doubly tragic in unprofessional circumstances. But the Aam Aadmis always believe that terror-shooters do better planning than terrorists. And the gullible media in a jingoistic mood would not raise any question about any of these issues. They after all have their favourite whipping boy – the politician the eternal entertainer for the non-voting rich classes of India. Arnabs and Rajdeeps would wax eloquent on Manmohan Singh and Advani visiting Mumbai separately and not together showing solidarity even at this hour of national crisis. What a farce? Why can't these channels pool together all their camera crew and reporters at this time of national calamity and share the sound and visual bites which could mean a wider and deeper coverage of events with such a huge human resource to command? Why should Arnab and Rajdeep and Barkha keep harping every five minutes that this piece of information was exclusive to their channel, at the time of such a national crisis? Is this the time to promote the channel? If that is valid, the politician promoting his own political constituency is equally valid. And the duty of the politician is to do politics, his politics. It is for the people to evaluate that politics. And terrorism is not above politics. It is politics by other means. To come to grips with it and to eventually eliminate it, the practice of politics by proper means needs constant fine tuning and improvement. Decrying all politics and politicians, only helps terrorists and dictators who are the two sides of the same coin. And the rich and powerful always prefer terrorists and dictators to do business with. Those caught in this crossfire are always the Aam Aadmis whose deaths are not even mourned - the taxi driver who lost the entire family at CST firing, the numerous waiters and stewards who lost their lives working in Taj for a monthly salary that would be one time bill for their masters. Postscript: In a fit of anger and depression, I sent a message to all the channels, 30 hours through the coverage. After all they have been constantly asking the viewers to message them for anything and everything. My message read: I send this with lots of pain. All channels, including yours, must apologise for not covering the victims of CST massacre, the real mumbaikars and aam aadmis of India. Your obsession with five star elite is disgusting. Learn from the print media please. No channel bothered. Only srinivasan Jain replied: you are right. We are trying to redress balance today. Well, nothing happened till the time of writing this 66 hours after the terror attack. Vijaya Chauhan. 84, Olympus, MM Chotani Marg,Mahim Mumbai 400016. +919820236267 From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 00:04:20 2008 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:34:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amaresh Misra on Possible American-Mossad Role in Mumbai Blasts In-Reply-To: <143256.54044.qm@web56702.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <143256.54044.qm@web56702.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <418f44e20812031034w24329afdwb7e874fe52cd2b14@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 00:16:00 2008 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:46:00 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] An Interesting piece by Amresh Mishra Message-ID: <418f44e20812031046x13f0842ahe7af99680ffaf13e@mail.gmail.com> On *Tue, 12/2/08, Yogi Sikand * wrote: From: Yogi Sikand Subject: Amaresh Misra on Possible American-Mossad Role in Mumbai Blasts To: "Sushil.Aaron at fco.gov.uk" Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 2:43 PM *Mumbai Terror Attack: Further Evidence of the Anglo-American-Mossad-RSS Nexus* *BY AMARESH MISRA * * Now who has the last laugh? That is the question; I only have pity for those who cannot see reality and who were so glib to buy into what the media and political troubleshooters were saying about the Mumbai Blasts. * * Consider this: * * * * As a BBC report notes, at least some of the Mumbai attackers were not Indian and certainly not Muslim.Pappu Mishra, a cafe proprietor at the gothic Victorian Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus railway station, described "two sprightly young men dressed in black" with AK47s who were "foreign looking, fair skinned."Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad, saw at least two men who started the firing outside the Leopold Cafe. "They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed," Amir told the BBC. * * According to Andrew G. Marshall, the ISI "has long been referred to as Pakistan's 'secret government' or 'shadow state.' It's long-standing ties and reliance upon American and British intelligence have not let up, therefore actions taken by the ISI should be viewed in the context of being a Central Asian outpost of Anglo-American covert intelligence operations."**The presence of "foreign looking, fair skinned" commandos who calmly gunned down dozens of people after drinking a few beers indicates that the Mumbai attacks were likely the work of the Anglo-American covert intelligence operatives, not indigenous Indian Muslims or for that matter Arab al-Qaeda terrorists. The attacks prepare the ground for the break-up of Pakistan and the furtherance of destabilizing terrorism in the Middle East and Asia. The Mumbai attacks had little to do with India or the relationship between Muslim Pakistanis and Hindu Indians.**"Pakistan's position as a strategic focal point cannot be underestimated. It borders India, Afghanistan, China and Iran," concludes Marshall. "Destabilizing and ultimately breaking Pakistan up into several countries or regions will naturally spread chaos and destabilization into neighboring countries. This is also true of Iraq on the other side of Iran, as the Anglo-American have undertaken, primarily through Iraq, a strategy of balkanizing the entire Middle East in a new imperial project." (See Marshall's **Divide and Conquer: The Anglo-American Imperial Project* *.)* * Now I ask specifically: WHO HAS EGG ON THE FACE? MY DETRACTORS OR ME?* * Andrew Marshall is a respected author; he is clearly saying here that terrorists looked like Anglo-American covert operatives and that the entire Mumbai operation was an attempt by Anglo-American forces to destabilize India and push it further into the Israel-US orbit. Marshall also says that Americans are keen to dismember Pakistan--it is clear that in this project, America needs India as a firm ally--it cannot afford Indo-Pak friendship at least on a long-term basis. The Mumbai attack thus was multi-layered--and one of the reasons could be to warn India that the Anglo-American elite has the power to penetrate India, with the help of its own people. Clearly, the attackers would not have come from the sea route without some kind of a connivance of Gujarat and Maharashtra Governments with the terrorists, and the connivance of RSS type Hindutva elements as I will prove later in the piece. * * This afore-mentioned report appeared on the BBC, a news agency which pro-west, Muslim-haters and all NRIs love to see. NOW I ASK THESE PEOPLE: why are you adopting double standards? Now a BBC report is incovenient because it militates against your idea of what happened in Mumbai?* * Even the Indian Government is aware of this reality. That is why it is not issuing statements in a hurry and that is why the kind of Islamo-phobia seen earlier after Bomb Blasts is not being seen now. * * A second report is more shocking--some news channels captured it but then it went off air: * * One Police officer who encountered the gunmen as they entered the Jewish Center (Nariman House) said the attackers were white. "I went into the building late last night" he said. "I got a shock because they were white. I was expecting them to look like us. They fired three shots. I fired 10 back". * * The Nariman House affair brings the Mossad angle to the fore. Two of the `hostages' killed in the Narimam House were identified as Rabbi Gabreil Holtzberg and his wife Rivka. They ran the center as spokespersons of the Chabad Lubavitch movement. * * Now the Chabad movement is one of the many sects within Israel and Judaism. But of late it has come under the Zionist influence. Now what is Zionism? A brief digression would suffice: Zionism is the political ideology of racist Jews, just like Hindutva is the political ideology of a section of `race conscious' Hindus. Just as a majority of Sanatani Hindus have opposed Hindutva, a majority of Jews oppose Zionism and its fascist-anti-religious tone. * * In opposition to the teachings of Judaism, the orthodox Jew religion, Zionists want to dominate the world; they see the `Jewish race' as the most important, almost divine, race in the world. Zionists are opposed to democracy and even the concept of naitonhood. Zionists believe in creating murder and mayhem as a matter of policy. * * In America, Zionists have entered into an alliance with the American elites--the White-Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) forces--which rule America. The reasons for this alliance lie in the way the Zionist agenda matches with that of the American corporate and WASP elite and is beyind the scope of this article. * * * * People who do not understand Zionism will never be able to understand what happened in Mumbai. * * Back to members of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement killed at Nariman House--people have asked how come the Rabbi and his wife were killed if Mossad is involved in the Mumbai terror attack? * * The answer to this is being forwarded by Jewish anti-Zionist websites. They also detail the sectarian history of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement: * * * * * *The attack on Mumbai spotlights the ultra-orthodox (haredi) Chabad-Lubavitch community and its international outreach network. When Chabad outreach (keruv) started in the 1950s, it seemed rather intellectually dishonest because the organization used nostalgia for a never-existent Jewish past as a hook to enmesh secular or secularized Jews in ultra-orthodox (haredi) practice as hozrim bitshuvah (returnees, sometimes improperly called baalei tshuvah), but on the whole the activity was mostly harmless in contrast with current Chabad activities, which long ago crossed the border into dangerous territory.* * As the Lubavitcher organization has become larger and wealthier -- partially because mobilization for keruv has brought large contributions, members have shown a propensity for corruption. * *Yet, the Lubavitchers have worked closely with Jewish racists like Lawrence Summers and Alan Dershowitz in the ongoing attempt to control discourse on American campuses. The wealthy Russian Lubavitcher hozer bitshuvah Lev Leviev openly supports Zionist terrorism and settlement building in the Palestinan occupied territories. Possibly because of Leviev Chabad-Lubavitch has openly become involved in Putin's struggles with Russian Jewish oligarchs.* *Still, there is an even more sinister aspect to the Lubavitcher organization.* * Because Lubavitcher outreach offices are located in some of the most important political, corporate and university centers throughout the world, the Lubavitchers have put together a network that is incomparable for corporate and international espionage as well as for the secret exchange of information. Because Chabad Houses could potentially act as safe houses, where there would be no record of a person's stay. * * Most people do not take the Lubavitchers seriously, but I have visited Chabad houses and encountered senior Israeli government or military officials (and probably intelligence agents). One can easily imagine that Neocon intelligentsia trying to develop a relationship with Hindutva (हिन्दुत्व) intelligentsia or politicians might have used the Chabad Nariman House as a meeting place.* * Here a Jew is saying that he has visited Chabad houses and that he has seen covert operations going on and the involvement of senior Government and military officials of Israel. This Jew writer is also talking openly about a Neo-Con-Chabad-Hindutva tie-up!* * The Jew writer mentions the Mossad involvement in Chabad Houses: * * Because the Lubavitchers provide an unconditional welcome to all Jews in the hope of bringing them closer to the Lubavitcher way of life, the Lubavitchers have been open to potential subversion by Israeli intelligence organizations. Mossad and Shin Bet found it quite easy to penetrate the haredi community during the Yossele Affair. * *Jewish politics has often involved infiltration and subversion of one political group by another. The David Project Israel Advocacy organization has used its educational programs as a means to infiltrate more mainstream Jewish communal organizations with radical Islamophobes and Jabotinskian Zionists.* *To Zionize haredi groups that practice outreach, the Israeli government need only give encouragement to Zionistically indoctrinated Hebrew-speaking young people to participate in outreach programs, and in a few years the targeted haredi community is thoroughly enmeshed in Zionist thinking while Israeli intelligence organizations have a new crop of **saya`nim* * in place ready to serve in Zionist covert operations. * * * * What is a sayanim? Go to the link ** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayanim* * and it states that "Sayanim (**Hebrew* *: "helpers") is a term used to describe **Jews* * living outside **Israel* * who volunteer to provide assistance to the **Mossad* *.[1] This assistance includes facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and even overt intelligence gathering, yet sayanim are only paid for their expenses. No official number is known, but estimates put the number of sayanim in the thousands. The existence of this large body of volunteers is one reason why the Mossad operates with fewer case officers than fellow **intelligence agencies* *" * * Now back to the link ** http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2008/12/chabad-lubavitch-dangerous-game.html* * from which I was quoting the Jewish writer originally. He says that the Lubavitcher shluchim (outreach emissaries) Gavriel Noach and Rivka Holtzberg fit the `sayanim' profile to a "T" -- especially Rivkah. * * So the two people killed in Nariman House fit the Sayanim, that is Jews outside Israel who volunteer to provide assistance to Mossad, profile! * * NOW WHAT OTHER PROOF DO YOU WANT?* *The Jewish writer of the afore-mentioned link himself asks the question: WOULD MOSSAD HAVE KILLED THE RABBI AND HIS WIFE IN NARIMAN HOUSE? * * AND HE PROVIDES THE ANSWER: * * Zionists have always used dead Jews to build sympathy for Zionist goals and as cover for Zionist crimes against humanity.* * Ben-Gurion explicitly stated that he would sacrifice German Jewish children for the sake of Zionism while the Zionist leadership probably learned the benefit of sacrificing Zionist operatives from the 1946 Kielce Pogrom. In this incident (Jewish) Soviet and Zionist agents probably worked together to make sure that surviving Polish Jews chose emigration to Palestine over a return to Poland. * * Because the Kielce Zionist recruiters were killed during the pogrom, the events leading up to the pogrom was rendered forever unobtainable.* * Some reports of the Mumbai attack indicate that the Holtzbergs rented space to the attack planners over the past few months and thereby helped make the operation far more effective.* * An opportunity to interrogate the Holtzbergs would have helped investigators immensely.* *AGAIN WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? * * * * Another piece of massive evidence: In a telephone interview with CBC News from outside the Center (Nariman House), freelance journalists Arun Asthana said that there are reports that some of the militants had stayed at a guest house there (Nariman House) for upto 15 days before the attack. "They had a huge mass of ammunition, arms and food there", Asthana said. * * * * Now other reports have also confirmed that a huge mass of food was ordered by the residents of the Nariman House. This food was enough for 30-40 people for several days. Why was this amount of food ordered? Also why was Nariman House not assaulted till the very last? A Gujarati Hindu resident of Mumbai came onto TV on CNN-IBN to say at around 3.30 AM or so, that for two months suspicious activities wree going in Nariman House. A lot of foreigners were seen coming in and going out. This matter was reported to the Police. But no one took action. * * The CNN-IBN did not repeat the news; then it was only when the common people of Mumbai threatened to storm the Nariman House the NSG commandos were moved in--why this delay in assaulting Nariman House when only two terrorists were holed in there? * * This is sheer official complicity and nothing else--AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE WHOLE NARIMAN HOUSE AFFAIR IS A MUST. * * * * Then it was reported that " somehow surprising to learn that the terrorists in Cama hospital in Mumbai were fluently speaking Marathi. The terrorists who are said to have fired in Cama hospital talked to an employee clad in civil dress in Marathi, reports a Marathi daily 'Maharashtra Times'. ** The newspaper said the terrorists who targeted ATS chief Hemant Karkare, police commissioner Ashok Kamte and encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar were speaking Marathi fluently.* * The newspaper claims the terrorists having fired at two watchmen in uniform asked the other beside them on gunpoint in Marathi, 'You are here an employee?' The employee caught the legs of the terrorist and said, 'I am not working here. My wife has suffered from heart attack and I have come here to admit her.' The terrorist asked him again in Marathi, 'You are speaking true or false?' The employee answered, 'No, by God I am speaking true.'* *On this the terrorist let him go.* * * * NOW WHAT DO WE MAKE OF THAT? Another report says that traditional Jews of Mumbai who have migrated to Israel speak fluent Marathi and are known to have been recruited by Mossad!* * * * The death of Hemant Karkare remains a mystery. All official versions are contradictory: some say he was killed near CST, some that he died near Cama hospital, some near Metro cinema, and some that he was killed while in a Police jeep. Also, where did the bullet hit him? Some say on the neck and some near the heart. Karkare was shown on TV wearing a bullet proof vest--he could not have been shot in neck in that case, unless there was a sniper waiting for him. * * Also if he was shot near heart, then when did he take out his vest? No one has even bothered to answer this question. Also, another facet is coming to light: that Karkare was killed near Cama--but Kaamte and Salaskar in the Metro shootout! * * * * Intelligent people--what do you have to say now? It is becoming obvious that...* * * * * *1. Several terrorists might have been white* *2. Were they International mercanaries? If yes, then from which country? Who collected them? It is well known that Mossad and CIA have several mercenary organizations, including so-called Jihadi ones on their list. They create Jihad and manipulate Muslims disaffected by the Islamophobia in the world. Some of them might have been used in the Mumbai attack. But why were they carrying American, British, Mauritian and Malaysian passports? * *3. Who were the Marathi speaking Karkare killers? The lane next to the Cama Hospital is a deserted one--it goes straight to the backyard of the Mumbai CID Headquarters. Anonymous sources in the Police have revealed that Karkare was taken there, by a joint team of anti-Karkare, pro-Hindutva Mumbai Police officers, and Chota Rajan men. Now Karkare was opposed to Chota Rajan. Salaskar was anti-Pradeep Sharma, another Mumbai senior Police officer now in jail, for working as Rajan's shooter. So the Marathi speaking terrorists could either have been Jews with some connection to Mumbai--or hired killers of the Hindutva brigade or men of Chota Rajan. * *4. It seems that several things went on simultaneously--the Mahrashtra Chief Minister Vilas Rao Deshmukh was in Kerala when the Mumbai attack began at 9.30 PM on 26th November. Then by 11PM Deshmukh had informed the Home Minister Shivraj Patil--the latter has started proceedings to send the NSG Commandos. So Deshmukh knew about what was happening by 11PM--then why was there no Mumbai Police on various locations between 9.30 and 1am, the time when Karkare arrived? The Mumbai ATS is a separate organization. it does not lead the Mumbai Police. So the 40,000 strong Mumbai Police was absent from the scene of action between 11pm to 1am and then Karkare arrived and he was killed along with his men!* *Isn't there something fishy here? Obviously the Mumbai Police was kept deliberately away between 11pm and 1am, the time period when terrorists were killing people merrily. Then Karkare must have been told--and he went there expecting Mumbai police personals to be there--but there were none or only a few! And he was killed! * * ----------------------------------------- Amaresh Mishra, the author of this article, can be contacted on misra.amaresh at gmail.com * *Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye* The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Sahib Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Sahib is awake and weeping Check out my blogs: www.madrasareforms.blogspot.com www.islampeaceandjustice.blogspot.com -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Thu Dec 4 05:53:45 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:23:45 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Talvin Singh: A Prayer for Bombay References: <167320.68803.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94E52D8D-74CC-450B-BAFF-9D33FE6DACBF@earthlink.net> I just thought I'd forward this. Talvin Singh did an interesting solo in solidarity with Mumbai. Good to see people not go in silence. Paul Begin forwarded message: > From: talvin singh > Date: December 3, 2008 6:56:55 PM EST > To: DJ Spooky > Subject: A Prayer for Bombay > > Greetings > My Condolences go out to all of the innocent Souls Lost in the > Bombay Massacre > This Clip is from a recent Concert in France > > Peace not Pieces > > http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=wOYQWY7b04M > > Talvin Singh > > From indiaonedge at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 07:24:06 2008 From: indiaonedge at gmail.com (indiaonedge wordpress) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:24:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Indian Frogs in a Well In-Reply-To: <7b288a440812022249g56158f90p8f60a66ae12b80f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b288a440812022249g56158f90p8f60a66ae12b80f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b288a440812031754j5c88ce8ds2710f1a714042004@mail.gmail.com> Indian Frogs in a Well The show of single minded unity that for a rare moment gripped this vast country was only fleeting. The debate forums are back to rehearsed arguments over their easy binary distinctions, the politicians are back to passing the buck around while kicking up enough dust to make it seem like action, the media is flying off on tangents and has all but lost the plot, and the rest of us got back to our everyday selves, feeding our children and our hidden pyres of fear and loathing. With an incident of this magnitude, widely described as one that would 'change India forever' , what is this great inner force that pits us terribly against each other, that relentlessly churns this mass of people around in a sickening cesspool? Why is the story of the Indian frogs in a well so accurate and so damning? Like most big problems, the answers are mostly within, hidden deeply in our selves and not so much a creation of external forces. The fundamental reason, that causes me to desperately claw out at a fellow Indian who's views, ideas, attitudes, principles, personality, image, affiliations may be contradictory, or challenging to me is because I identify so strongly with that other person. It is like having a part of my own self that I see acting unlike what I know myself to be. Of going against my very grain - an errant mental strain that is trying to be something else - higher, different, opposite - to what i am. And the frustration I feel at this charade, this complete disregard for my own 'true' self is something that causes me to lash out with such violence. It is a violence against myself - of an inability to reconcile parts of myself that refuse to obey me. We would not get into impassioned debates and absolutely personal arguments and attacks of the kind we are so used to, with a person whom we do not identify with. Our oneness is the biggest cause for our divisiveness. And time and again, history shows this that there is no shortage of willing opportunists that would exploit this to their own benefit. The squabbling meanwhile, continues. http://indiaonedge.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/indian-frogs-in-a-well/ From sudeep.ks at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 13:55:00 2008 From: sudeep.ks at gmail.com (Sudeep K S) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:55:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'My Mother, The Gharwali, Her Maalak, His Wife' : Tue 9 Dec / Kamani Message-ID: *Point of View *and *SANGRAM* in association with *Naz Foundation (India) Trust* present *MY MOTHER THE GHARWALI HER MAALAK HIS WIFE* Directed by *Sushama Deshpande* Performed by *VAMP* Devised by *Divya Bhatia* Leena is a woman in prostitution. Leena is also a woman in love with her rickshaw-driver prince, who is suddenly talking about riding off into the sunset - alone. *'My Mother, The Gharwali, Her Maalak, His Wife'* looks at 24 hours in the lives of the people who live in or pass through the *galli* (street) in which Leena lives. What happens here in these 24 hours, happens in their * galli* everyday. *My Mother, The Gharwali, Her Maalak, His Wife* is performed by VAMP*,* a collective of women in prostitution based in Sangli. Hear them speak their own stories, talk their own tales and re-imagine their own realities. *Tuesday 9 December 2008* *6.30 pm* At *Kamani Auditorium* 1 Copernicus Marg, New Delhi Tel: 011-23388084 www.kamaniauditorium.org *Hindi* ( 70 mins ) *Followed by discussion with cast* *ENTRY FREE; NO TICKETS NEEDED* For more information contact *Sanjana* at 9873274455 or email *pointofviewmumbai at gmail.com* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: veronica magar Date: Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:10 PM Subject: My Mother The Gharwali Her Maalak His Wife at Kamani Aud on 9 Dec To: vbmagar at gmail.com Dear Friends, This performance has received rave reviews in Mumbai and elsewhere. Actors are sex workers themselves... now well-trained stage actors. Entry is free, but they are requesting 100 Rs. donation. Hope to see you there... You won't be disappointed. Veronica - ------------- Veronica Magar (Dr.) Research and Action for Change (REACH) +919871419460 From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 13:59:06 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:59:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Imams call for black ribbons on Bakr-Eid Message-ID: Imams call for black ribbons on Bakr-Eid 4 Dec 2008, 0345 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: Close on the heels of Mumbai's Muslim Council refusing burial space to the Pakistani terrorists killed in the Mumbai attacks, a group of imams here has come out strongly against the attacks and asked the Muslim community to wear a black ribbon on Bakr-Eid as an expresion of solidarity with those killed in the outrage. The imams, under the banner of All India Organisation of Imams of Mosques, called for subdued Eid-ul-Azha (Bakr-Eid) festivities across the country, scheduled for Tuesday. The imams described the Mumbai carnage as an attack on the nation, as it appealed to all the mosques, muftis and madrasas to reiterate in this week's Friday prayers that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people and is against any form of terrorism. "We are deeply aggrieved by the loss of human lives and especially by the brutal killing of Jews," they said in a statement. "We have to think above caste, class, region and religion. It's an attack on India and all true Indians should come forward and salute the martyrs who sacrificed their lives for the sake of the country," it said. Prominent clerics from both Shia and Sunni sects on Wednesday called for decisive action against Pakistan. A joint communique signed by Maulana Khalid Rasheed Firangimahali, the naib Imam of Idgah, Maulana Mohammad Mushtaq, president of All India Sunni Board and Maulana Naimurrehman, president of the Ulema Council of India, demanded firm action against terrorists in order to restore faith of people in effective governance. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Imams_for_black_ribbons_on_Bakr-Eid/articleshow/3790308.cms From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 14:10:19 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:40:19 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Vigils for Mumbai victims & India-Pk peace In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0812040039y30372c3cj935747357f1e0a3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0812040039y30372c3cj935747357f1e0a3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812040040p31837313i4d4e9921bedde8b5@mail.gmail.com> From: Beena Sarwar Information about vigils: DEC 4: Karachi, London, & Boston, Worcester (MA) & Providence, RI DEC 6: San Fransisco Already held: Dec 2, UPenn Forthcoming: Dec 4 (TODAY): - KARACHI: 5.00 pm, Karachi Press Club, Pakistan India Peoples Forum for Peace and Democracy (PIPFPD) & Peace Karachi, candle lit vigil for Peace against carnage in Mumbai & Karachi. "Plz join us & say no to War & every kind of Hatred." - LONDON: 6:00–9:00 pm, India House. Joint vigil by Pakistanis and Indians to express their grief over the Mumbai attacks and solidarity; extracts from the draft statement: "… If the objectives of the terrorists are to be defeated, that sense of brotherhood, shared grievance, and unwillingness to be driven apart must extend across the border, to Pakistan. We cannot allow ourselves to be manipulated and polarised through violence; we cannot allow the terrorists to win." - MA & RI: Simultaneous candlelight vigils at City Halls in BOSTON & WORCESTER, MA and on the State House steps in PROVIDENCE, RI, 6pm, organized by the Asian American Commission to remember the victims of the Mumbai killings. Contact: Raj Cell: 508-523-5784 DEC 6, SAN FRANCISCO: City Hall, peace rally by concerned South Asian Americans -- Pakistanis and Indians -- to condemn the recent Mumbai Terror attack and call for Pakistan and India to work together in promoting peace, justice, and prosperity in the region Press release at: http://docs.google.com/View? docid=ddkdhzkn_14fqhcz7fd Event endorsed by: Friends of South Asia | http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/ Indian Muslim Relief and Charities | http://www.imrc.ws/ Pakistan American Cultural Center | http://pcc-ca.org Pakistan Science and Engineering Foundation | http://paksef.org South Asia Disaster Relief Coordinators | http://sarelief.com Alliance of South Asians Taking Action (ASATA) | http://www.asata.org Re: vigil held recently, on Dec 2: Maria Khan at UPenn writes that students, including Pakistanis and Indians, held a candlelight vigil at campus on Dec 2 where they circulated a pamphlet (written by two Indian graduate students at Penn, one from Mumbai). Extracts from pamphlet, `IN THE AFTERMATH OF TERROR, THE TERROR OF THE AFTERMATH': "In the heat and hurt of the moment, we must not lose sight of important issues and their possible ramifications: "• …The need of the hour is to recognize the commonality of the suffering instead of falling prey to jingoistic nationalism… "• The call to Mumbaikars to get back on their feet is not an innocuous appreciation for their resilience; rather, such rhetoric allows the government to evade responsibility. The Indian government must be held accountable for the massive intelligence failure that has claimed so many lives. :• We condemn this act of terror but do not equate terror with Islam because not only does this false equation play into the hands of Hindu fundamentalists in India but it also feeds anti-Muslim sentiments that are being stoked globally in a post-9/11 world. "• We should act with caution when framing the attacks in Mumbai as "India's 9/11." We express solidarity with those who lost loved ones on 9/11, but are apprehensive about taking the analogy much further. We do not want the Indian government to replicate the US's responses nor engender the consequences thereof - neither in its repressive domestic policy nor in the perpetration of acts of terror in other parts of the globe. "In the wake of this tragedy, we grieve those we lost and salute those who gave their lives to save others. We stand in solidarity with Mumbaikars and with those the world over who have been or continue to be victims of terror in all its myriad forms. " Students in solidarity, University of Pennsylvania" From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 16:34:41 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:34:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] For those who HATE Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <47e122a70812020958k22409055u4498b2f7040f42b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812040304p123e8b16x1742b2093414f509@mail.gmail.com> thanks dear Javed for this response please consider the fact that writing on Iqbal is bound create many fresher versions of thought. History was such and he was such. i agree with you by and large. i hope some more reflections on this.. some observations Nietzsche was not a Nationalist as Nazis projected him. Iqbal too was not in that sense, but he was a poet not a philosopher, and for that reason alone he could have stretched the canvas of his poetry wider than he managed in the end. Well, some of his admirers can dispute that, but i guess he limited his reach by using extremely difficult words, and one can see his inspiration of Quran vividly in his verses. nothing against that, i have already said he was a genius, but i am interested in something else also. Perhaps, Dr.Iqbal looked at life very seriously. Life has bent coin's like face, a simple street life is not moon like which we love to draw on paper or through written word. A State Constitution too, if aims itself at shaping each and every individual into a moon like being, it is bound to be repressive. What we call madness must be intimately locked in with life itself as well. Who know what we are ? well, now, let us consider that there are two things in the world, one TRASH and other GENIUS : i guess the world is big TRASH,and GENIUS is somewhere amidst. our job, i guess is the deconstruct the icon as well. we are surrouned too many icons, burdensome... I believe, great Poetry has a tendency to engage the Life's trash more than its meaning in order to feel the organic/relevant to the times. Iqbal did the same in his own style, but perhaps undermined the genius hidden within the trash. Quite Idiotic to speak like that, but people in general are drifting along with the sacred and the profane simultaneously. Any attempt to purify 'us' is totally anti-performativity in thought. See, how terribly we suffer because, over the period of time, whatever catches 'the visible', defines the life. What about the huge quantum of life that has remained hidden, but is breathing in this mega-trash. I guess, the time has come when we question? Dr. Iqbal was not certainly the only master-mind behind Pakistan, but there was a dream, and dreams you know are markedly different from realities. Romanticism is good, but only it frements like Ghalib's. Yes, since Hali he is a great Muslim poet, but if we read 'muslim' here with emphasis the poet Iqbal is hurt; again, we dont say a Musim poet Faiz, but the great urdu poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz. there is a great paradox in the understanding of Dr. Iqbal but, what is tragic about Pakistan today, even the scholars are not willing dy to liberate him from those shallow intrepretations of Quran which somehow pour out from some of his verses. Reading Iqbal can make you humbler, but what is happening right now: the icon worshiper is afraid to disect the sacred, believing that the creator ( poet ) was himself divine. shall come back to you with regards and love inder salim On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Javed wrote: > Dear Inder > You are insisting so much about Iqbal's role in the creation of > Pakistan, but it is hotly debated these days whether he really gave > the idea of Pakistan or not. Although in one of his speeches he did > talk about a separate state governed by the Muslims, but he never > imagined it would become the Pakistan as we see it today. In fact in a > letter to one of British friends he later on clarified that he did not > give the idea of a separate country for Muslims which the people are > attributing to him. I don't have the correct reference to that > correspondence now, but maybe I will find and send you soon. Here are > some excerpts from another essay which raise some doubts about whether > it was really Iqbal who gave the idea of Pakistan: > > "Iqbal's conception of a modern Muslim state- which emerges from the > Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam is of a state run by > representatives elected by the people. In addition to the supreme > legislative body, the parliament, including the Non-Muslim members, > was also to be the Grand National Ijtehad Council which would meet to > modernise Islamic traditions, civil code and criminal code. The reason > why his book was denounced unanimously by the Mullahs was because they > saw that Iqbal favored giving the state the power to completely change > Islam according to modern times. For example he argued that the state > could ban polygamy and that would be perfectly Islamic... > > Thus it is quite clear - from his lectures atleast- that Iqbal was not > against representative rule. > > It is also quite clear that he himself used the terms "Social > Democracy" and "Spiritual Democracy", the former being a system of > government and society that sought create equitable distribution of > power, wealth and participation and the latter a system of religious > "movement" which ensured the constant updation of religious tradition. > > Infact Iqbal's famous idea of a "separate Muslim state in North West > of India" in 1930 was not inspired by any attempt at achieving group > rights or a group-identity consciousness etc but rather the idea that > just like Judaeo-Christian ethics have colored the otherwise secular > legal systems of the west, Islamic ethics should get a chance to > develop and modernise in a similar fashion in a state of its own. > > Thus what he was presumably afraid of was the lack of a moral basis > for the democratic system. (Ironically similar fears were raised > Gandhi in India but Gandhian Religious Moral Philosophy was not > allowed any constitutional expression by Dr. Ambedkar). Allama Iqbal > favored hyphenated democracy of sorts- a democracy limited by morality > determined by Islamic ethics. > > While in my view this idea is inherently flawed but it is clear that a > majority of Muslims around the world agree with Iqbal's idea, what > they don't agree with is Iqbal's liberal interpretation of Islamic law > and his readiness to do away with what they consider to be the central > motif of islam. The reason why no one mentions Allama Iqbal's views on > democracy because the current pro-Democracy movement is not concerned > with the issues that have been mentioned above. The current > pro-Democracy movement wants representative civilian rule. Whether > this representative rule would be limited by Islamic ethics or human > reason is an issue that is irrelevant to the movement. > > Truth be told Iqbal's stature has been enhanced by the state each > passing year. He is no longer just the national poet and philosopher > but is now a founding father equal to Mahomed Ali Jinnah in the > official state pantheon. How is it that Allama Iqbal- who passed away > 2 years before the Pakistan Movement officially kicked off- is held > today in equal esteem to Jinnah ? > > There is no question that Allama Iqbal was widely respected as the > foremost Muslim poet since Hali. But there has been considerable > exaggeration when it comes to giving him credit for Pakistan's > creation. According to "Plain Mr. Jinnah" a collection of Jinnah's > personal correspondence, a Muslim League volunteer found Iqbal's > letters to Jinnah in some corner of Jinnah's legal library in his > house in Bombay, after the 1940 resolution. The first edition of > Iqbal-Jinnah Correspondence, published by the Muslim League, is from > 1941 or 1942. > > In my opinion from the period 1947-1958, Iqbal was celebrated as a > great poet but not for anything else. It was 1958 onwards that the > revision of Iqbal as a founding father began. There are several > reasons for it. One major reason is that Army, as an institution, has > at best always been uncomfortable with Mahomed Ali Jinnah's memory. A > lawyer-politician and parliamentarian as the founding father and the > "Quaid-e-Azam" has always given the army people a bit of a kick in the > balls. Ayub in particular , it is said, could never get over Jinnah's > chilly rebuke to army officers (when they complained about British > officers) informing them that it was civilians who made policy and not > army men. Especially after the threat posed by Fatima Jinnah in 1965, > the army realised that Pakistan with a single memory cannot be good > for them. > > Allama Iqbal in contrast provided a much more workable situation. The > Iqbalian concepts of "Mard-e-Momin" and "Shaheen" (even though Iqbal's > Mard-e-Momin and Shaheen could be civilians) were used- much in the > same way Nazis used Nietzche's "Superman"- to invent the "Super-Fauji" > who could dodge bullets and travel at the speed of light ... all the > while managing a pathetic little country like ours. > > If Pakistan's 60 years are mapped in terms of Allama Iqbal promotion, > the graph would be highest under Ayub, Zia and Musharraf. The Ulema - > including people like Dr. Israr- the same sort Iqbal had warned > against- have also had good reason to own Iqbal. Much of Iqbal's > poetry is recited by the Ulema because it speaks of Islamic glory > etc." > > (My posts to Sarai are not appearing for some reason: could you post > this on my behalf - thanks) > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:28 PM, inder salim wrote: >> Dear All, >> I am not even a smallest scholar of Dr. Iqbal, the great poet, but >> 'the present' tempts me to write a bit on the times he lived in, >> mainly because he was the real force behind Jinnah to push Pakistan >> Agenda. It is more interesting also because all the people connected >> with partition had something to do with Western thought. Whether >> Tagore was a force behind Gandhi or not but his desire for recognition >> by the West was ultimate, and so was Iqbal's urge to learn western >> Philosophy. Gandhi himself had a shallow ( old Testament like ) >> outlook on sexuality, temple art and a shallow understanding of >> class. See, how Gandhi trusted Nehru, and how Iqbal trusted Jinnah, >> both well versed in western philosophy. Not surprising that all the >> four were lawyers, and deeply interested in politics. >> >> When Queen of England died in 1901, Dr. Iqbal wrote both in prose >> and verse in her honour, which he much later regretted. ( see text at >> the page's bottom ) .He was deeply interested in politics, and even >> won an election by a huge margin. He was indeed a great poet, but what >> was his real dream? His influence was Rumi, the great Persian Sufi >> Saint poet, but did he end up as a Sufi poet or a deep analyst-admirer >> of Holy Book Quran? He admired Ghalib, although ironically he >> criticized him for his poems written in honour of British Lords. But >> Ghalib was honest, perhaps, this couplet would come to his defence.( >> kay who nimrod ki khudayee thee, bandgee mein mera bhala na huva ). I >> don't know if Dr Iqbal had ever written so lucidly, which he himself >> knew. ( andazey Bayan agarchi mara shok nahi hai… who mazhab…. Yeh >> mazhab….( my passion is not to chase poetry for some style…., that >> religion….this religion ) which is acutely contrary to Ghalib's. >> Meanwhile Ghalib thought his verse is beautiful only because of sufi >> saint Hazrat Khusroo, and so Nizammudin Aulia as well. >> >> Having said all this so hurriedly, we can never run the genius of Dr. >> Iqbal and we need to understand him from various angles. It is also >> true he was disillusioned with Jinnah's political procedures, but he >> had no alternatives, and he was himself so lazy to address the >> gatherings himself. He perhaps, could not decide whether he was poet >> or a philosopher. I guess he could have done much better as a poet if >> had relinquished his obsession of Nietzsche ( Khudi ko kar buland >> itna… ) see his style of moustaches and those of Nietzche's ( may be >> just a coincidence ) >> >> By laziness, I mean he loved to live life in style, whether it was >> dresses or food or travelling abroad and falling in love with European >> ladies. He was keenly interested in what was happening politically, >> here back home. >> >> He was always in politics, and commented on this or that even when he >> was not in great health just few years before his death in 1938. >> It must have been because of his dream for Pakistan that he openly >> opposed to the Ahmadiyya movement in 1935, but he was true admirer >> of the same in 1911. Whether that was a threat or not but certainly he >> tried to quash any other representation to the idea of unity of >> Muslim. So, Muslim League was the only instrument he believed in. >> There must be hundreds of such points which can paint Dr. Iqbal badly, >> but this is not my intention here. Here my interest is to >> investigate the reasons why the original dream of a new Islamic >> nation failed to move. Dr. Iqbal knew that his forefathers were >> Kashmiri Brahmins, but what mattered for him was his idea of >> restoration of Muslim Past, which was indeed glorious in parts, here >> or there. Was that not possible to cherish along with Hindus ? I >> guess it was, but, was Gandhi's love for Lord Ram too much for him to >> consider that possibility. The reason for his early love for Hazrat >> Mirza Ghulam Mohammad ( 1835-1908, the founder of Ahmediyyas ) was >> because of his open criticism of Christians and Arya Samjis. His later >> criticism of Ahmediyyas was because it consolidated as a sect. >> >> But he himself says that Hazrat Mirza was the truest admirer of >> Quran. But that was before, now he saw a chance for all the Muslims >> of India to realize his dream, with a tremendous Islamic past as >> heritage, and with a real Prophet as messiah of compassion and >> simplicity. But Pakistan was not meant for that. It was not even about >> Dr. Iqbal's whatever dream, but it was about power, it was about >> British design to divide the subcontinent for their own gains. >> >> See how difficult is the vocabulary in his verses. Without luggat ( >> dictionary ) it is damn impossible to understand the philosophy hidden >> in his verses which in anyway is hugely inspired by Islamic holy >> scriptures. How a simple peasant, uprooted from Bihar and Punjab could >> have made his poetry as their ideal for future life. For a typical >> Punjabi there was a great folk culture , music and poetry, for a >> Sindhi and Bengali it was his own and so on… He certainly was quite >> sophisticated for an ordinary Muslim to follow. >> >> Dr. Iqbal is in his Mausoleum, and Mr. Jinnah is thinly visible in >> the Pakistani currency notes. Who sings Iqbal in Pakistan, none, other >> than a sufi who has read Bange-Dara. His poetry is lasting as and when >> he comes out of the pretension of being a philosopher. A peasant, a >> labourer, a simple factory worker or a clerk is hardly aware about Dr. >> Iqbal. It is too difficult, that must be the inner reality in >> Pakistan. >> >> Since 1947, it was indeed the new green flag with crescent on it which >> must have driven masses to love Pakistan. Next, it must be Army and >> their vested interests which are holding Pakistan. And above all, it >> must be Anglo-American foreign policies that support the idea of >> Pakistan. Dr. Iqbal's dream for a new Islamic world in this >> subcontinent was bound to create this fundamentalism, because if the >> poet-philosopher is difficult then people indeed look for a cheap >> maulana to guide their destinies. That is what is happening in >> madarasas. This is what I have been made to believe that there are 0.5 >> million madarasses in Pakistan. Do we need a school inspector to tell >> us that they don't teach Dr. Iqbal's poetry ! >> >> Gopi Chand Narang, a prominent Iqbal scholar says that there are >> thousands of titles on Iqbal in theacademic world but just one or two >> on his poetry. So now, is it fair to conclude that Dr. Iqbal's poetry, >> which was difficult anyway, was not the priority of people at helm >> in 1947 after the creation of Pakistan. >> So, it is quite reasonable to believe that average Pakistani is >> innocent, caught between the Army, dynasty rule, Mullahism and >> poverty. >> >> What can Indian do? Not to hate the common Pakistani, in the least…. >> >> Having said all this, I again want to come back to Dr. Iqbal's poetry: >> his intense urge to control the word. It was perhaps, pointed out by >> Goethe, that the inherent musicality in the verses of Quran is the >> reason for its followers to believe in it, endlessly. Poets too have >> been trying to achieve that magical effects in their verses, sources >> of which are cosmic/unknown. See Ghalib, Aatey hein gaib say yeh >> mazameen khayal mein, Ghalib sareeray nama nawaya sarosh hai. ( these >> couplets are coming from unknown sources, and the sound in my pen is >> of angle's ) How similar. In another couplet Ghalib says that he >> yearns for a home parallel to Heaven but not the one made by God ) . >> Sufi poetry is full of such fantasies and thoughts which I cherish. >> Dr. Iqbal was intensely trying to achieve that magical effect without >> undermining the authority of sacred book Quran. He had perhaps no >> need to write poetry if there was not a strong tradition of writing >> poetry in Islamic world. If the agenda was simply to spread the >> message of Prophet Mohammad he could have written some easy prose, or >> moved from village to village and helped people to understand Islam. >> But he wanted to satisfy his inner urge to sit in the company of great >> poets like Ghalib and all the galaxy of other urdu poets, and for that >> reason alone he wrote verses, I believe. He knew he could not achieve >> the genius of Ghalib but he had no choice because he had absorbed all >> the Persian and Urdu poetry, mixed it with western philosophy. I think >> the times were such that he could not ignore politics of his times. >> >> with love and peace >> inder salim >> …………………………………………………….. >> here is Dr. Iqbal >> Upon the death of Queen Victoria in 1901, Dr. Iqbal penned an >> epicedium of ten pages, entitled 'Tears of Blood', from which we give >> a few verses below. The Queen died on the day of Eid-ul-Fitr, and >> Iqbal wrote: >> "Happiness came, but grief came along with it, Yesterday was Eid, but >> today came muharram [month of the year associated with the deepest >> mourning for Muslims] >> "Easier than the grief and mourning of this day, Would be the coming >> of the morn of the day of judgment. >> "Ah! the Queen of the realm of the heart has passed away, My scarred >> heart has become a house of mourning. >> "O India, thy lover has passed away, She who sighed at thy troubles >> has passed away. >> "O India, the protective shadow of God has been lifted from above you, >> She who sympathised with your inhabitants has gone. >> "Victoria is not dead as her good name remains, this is the life to >> whomever God gives it. >> "May the deceased receive abundant heavenly reward, and may we show >> goodly patience." >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 17:38:34 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 04:08:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] 'Pakistan will have to pay a heavy price' (M J AKBAR) Message-ID: <20983.71685.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> EXTRACTS:   - The Indian people have no leadership. You have a prime minister. Did you see him when he addressed the nation? Nobody knew if he was addressing the nation or having a cup of tea? He looked serious, but he didn't talk to us about our anger and about our anguish. I think this administration is tone deaf to the anguish of the people. They just cannot understand what the people are going through. They just don't understand our pain or our anger.   - I am an Indian Muslim and I am very proud of both, being an Indian and a Muslim. I do not see any contradictions. This is my land and I have nowhere else to go. But can I say because I am an Indian Muslim that no Indian Muslim is involved? Can you, because you are a Hindu, say that no Hindu is involved? We have to behave like Indians first. Not as a Muslim or as a Hindu first. Because we need Hindu votes and Muslim votes and because this government thinks that it needs Muslim votes so it has been in complete denial.   -  I am tired of giving Pakistan a long rope on some excuse or the other. Everybody is saying this will happen if we do this, that will happen if we do this. Our relations with Pakistan will go, then, let them go. What has our relations with Pakistan brought us except violence and terror? Why should we be in charge of saving Pakistan?   -  Pakistan must be made to realise that it will have to pay a heavy price. Not necessarily through war, but a heavy price will have to be paid in loss in trade, in cancellation of orders and other engagements. They should pay a heavy price in terms of people to people relations. I am not saying you can freeze a relationship to death, but the message must go out that if there is a crime there will be a penalty. You just can't get away with it.   - Look, you must not confuse the Pakistan issue with the Indian Muslims issue. Their so-called alienation or their economic deprivation is not linked to the issue of Pakistan. Indian Muslims have nothing to do with Pakistan. They have absolutely no sympathy for Pakistan. They know that Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed in the history of Indian Muslims. They know it. You can ask anyone in Baroda, Bihar or Mumbai. They know how they are suffering the backlash of all the consequences of cross-border terrorism. Today, they fear retribution from the government, they fear retribution from popular disenchantment and anger. They feel helpless. They feel afraid.   Kshmendra   'Pakistan will have to pay a heavy price'   M J Akbar | December 02, 2008   (M J Akbar is one of India's best-known journalists and commentators, someone with a deep insight into the Indian people and their mindset. In this first-person, as-told-to piece, Akbar discusses the Mumbai attacks and their relevance for India.)   Many people forget that India is a tough nation. Toothless leaders have turned India into a soft nation. People forget that India has fought back Muslim terrorism in Kashmir; Sikh terrorism in Punjab, Christian terrorism in Nagaland and Hindu terrorism in Assam, and amongst the Naxalites.   We have had everything thrown at the Indian nation State. Still, we have stood up. The people of India have shown the courage and ability to believe in their nation and to fight back. But the completely impotent leadership of five years have turned a tough country into a soft State.   I am very sad. I keep feeling that if they protect India as they protect their leaders -- whether it is Prime Minister Manmohan Singh or Congress President Sonia Gandhi -- I think I would be safe. Today, India's leaders are safe and India is in panic.   (On what India's response should be)   India's proper reaction would be possible if we understand the extent of the disease.   If the disease is cancer, you can't apply band aid. After making a complete mess of security issues for five years by asking Shivraj Patil to go finally we may have a home minister who doesn't comb his hair and change his clothes. But we want something more than that. If it is cancer, we need chemotherapy, a much more serious exercise. It needs a legislative and executive framework. It needs political mobilisation. People are numbed.   The Indian people have no leadership. You have a prime minister. Did you see him when he addressed the nation? Nobody knew if he was addressing the nation or having a cup of tea?   He looked serious, but he didn't talk to us about our anger and about our anguish. I think this administration is tone deaf to the anguish of the people. They just cannot understand what the people are going through. They just don't understand our pain or our anger. The most important thing is that, perhaps, we have politicised not only the instruments of the State like the police but we have also politicised the understanding of the nature of the problem.   I think the very first thing to do is to ensure security so that it prevents the next attack. If any attack takes place under someones job should go. Don't come to me with alibis.   (On the terrorists getting local support)   I am an Indian Muslim and I am very proud of both, being an Indian and a Muslim. I do not see any contradictions. This is my land and I have nowhere else to go.   But can I say because I am an Indian Muslim that no Indian Muslim is involved? Can you, because you are a Hindu, say that no Hindu is involved? We have to behave like Indians first. Not as a Muslim or as a Hindu first. Because we need Hindu votes and Muslim votes and because this government thinks that it needs Muslim votes so it has been in complete denial.   Do you think that these people came across from Pakistan and had no support in Mumbai?   It is not possible. It was a huge operation. Ten people hit nine places and you killed nine of them. You want to say that they went from place to place? Who knows some of them must have slipped away to create new sleeper cells to hit us six months later.   They are hiding things. I would like to believe that there was an underworld connection. Because, Karachi and Mumbai are also linked by drug smuggling. The culture of criminals is aggression. It comes naturally to them. It is not easy for you and I to become aggressive, however angry we are. It does not come naturally to us. These are people who are trained psychologically in aggression. They have no respect for the State. They have no love for the country. And they have no respect for authority.   Why? Because the only face of authority is the corrupt policeman. The criminal gives money in the morning and money in the evening. Why should he have respect for somebody he gives bribes to? For the guy from the underworld his understanding of the Indian State and authority is corruption. He has no patriotism to stop him. Why would he not join hands with the terrorists? In any case, he belongs to another world. We have not even begun to address and discuss this.   (On the Pakistan factor)   I am tired of giving Pakistan a long rope on some excuse or the other. Everybody is saying this will happen if we do this, that will happen if we do this. Our relations with Pakistan will go, then, let them go. What has our relations with Pakistan brought us except violence and terror? Why should we be in charge of saving Pakistan? For what? Every time they turn around and they say they want evidence. Now, finally we have evidence.   I have been an editor for 35 years from the age of 23. From that time on, since the days of General Zia-ul Haq, I have been hearing 'Pakistan is asking for evidence'. We asked for withdrawal of their support to the movement for Khalistan, they said, 'Oh, we don't know anything about it.' On Kashmir, they kept repeating where is the evidence. Benazir Bhutto came, she asked for evidence. Nawaz Sharif came, he asked for evidence. I think Pervez Musharraf asked for less evidence. Now again, they are asking for evidence.   There is a terrorist in Mumbai, captured and arrested. How much more evidence do you want? If what he is saying is not evidence, then how can you get more evidence?   This government is in its 11th hour. Now they will bluff the people to protect their votes. There is no time left for them. The agony of departure will be hard from this government.   (On the reaction in the West)   The US and Britain have a vested interest in telling India to look within. Why? When Americans die then they can send their air force 7,000 miles and bomb every country to smithereens. But when Indians die, they tell us no, no, you must be patient. You must act like a swami and a yogi. Why? Is an American life more precious than an Indian life? Why should we keep listening to them? But we have a government that keeps listening to them all the time. We don't get tough.   The last time we got tough was after the attack on Parliament. We took some tough actions under Operation Parakram and then there was a certain lull. Three years ago, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was able to tell President George W Bush that there are no terrorists amongst Indian Muslims. That means that lull continued.   Pakistan must be made to realise that it will have to pay a heavy price. Not necessarily through war, but a heavy price will have to be paid in loss in trade, in cancellation of orders and other engagements. They should pay a heavy price in terms of people to people relations. I am not saying you can freeze a relationship to death, but the message must go out that if there is a crime there will be a penalty. You just can't get away with it.   Let the Pakistan government cooperate with us. But look at how the Pakistan government has buckled down and we are sitting here whimpering.   They want to send some lowly officers to India. For what? Even Pakistan is treating the Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi government with total contempt. They know how weak it is.   (Delink Hindu-Muslim relations and Pakistan)   Look, you must not confuse the Pakistan issue with the Indian Muslims issue. Their so-called alienation or their economic deprivation is not linked to the issue of Pakistan.   Indian Muslims have nothing to do with Pakistan. They have absolutely no sympathy for Pakistan. They know that Pakistan was the biggest mistake committed in the history of Indian Muslims. They know it. You can ask anyone in Baroda, Bihar or Mumbai. They know how they are suffering the backlash of all the consequences of cross-border terrorism.   Today, they fear retribution from the government, they fear retribution from popular disenchantment and anger. They feel helpless. They feel afraid.   We must understand finally that it is not so much the 'local people', it is the local underworld that is involved in anti-India activities. In 1993, who were involved in terrorism? The underworld. Why have you not done anything about it? The State turns a blind eye to the police and corruption. I don't know how many readers smoke hashish and other stuff, but I am accusing them of cross-border terrorism. Drugs come to India from Afghanistan via Karachi.   (What we can do as individuals)   If whoever is responsible for protecting the nation fails, then he or she should not be allowed to continue in power. That is the toughest and sharpest message we can give. You can tell that you may be a soft State, but we are a hard people and we are hard voters.   We are not going to forgive you for your lies and deception and for your waffling. How many blasts do we need to understand that? When Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Mumbai and Delhi happened no one who was genuinely guilty was caught.   We have to understand now that corruption has eaten away vitals of this nation. It is the biggest danger to the security of India. It is not just the case of some spectrum being sold to someone by some minister in. Everyone who is corrupt get out!   It Is a failure all around. We have to be extremely practical and pragmatic. There is great deal to be depressed about as an Indian. Frankly speaking, I feel very angry and upset. I am never upset by the behaviour of our enemies. I am only upset by the betrayal of those I trust.   M J Akbar, editor-in-chief, Covert magazine, spoke to Sheela Bhatt   http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02mumterror-pakistan-will-have-to-pay-a-heavy-price.htm   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 17:58:19 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 04:28:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Mumbai Terror Attacks - Wahiduddin Khan (tr. Yoginder Sikand) Message-ID: <144298.89114.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> EXTRACTS:   - Today, many Muslims have lost their wisdom, as is evident from the events which have taken place recently.   - The reason for this madness is hatred. Hate can make a man do anything.   - Muslims have made themselves the self-appointed Caliphs, and have launched all sorts of movements that propagate the ideology of capturing political power.   - This makes me ponder as to why this hate does not get finished among Muslims? This is because Muslims’ hate is a reflection of a certain mind-set. ........ This mind-set can be replaced by deconditioning alone.   -  Ideological deconditioning has to be done among the Muslims to help them come out of hate.   - This sort of mentality, unfortunately, has become endemic among many Muslims. Nobody is doing planning for the positive task of spreading God’s message, and love and peace. This is because as years passed by, this work became dead in Muslims. But it alone can promote positive planning as it requires well-wishing for the whole of humankind.  We must therefore focus our energies on spreading God’s love and restrain from any negative and destructive activities.   Kshmendra     "The Mumbai Terror Attacks" by Maulana Wahiduddin Khan translated by Yoginder Sikand   (Every Sunday morning, the renowned Delhi-based Islamic scholar and thinker Maulana Wahiduddin Khan addresses a group of his disciples, speaking on various issues. His lecture on 30 November, 2008 focussed on the recent terror attacks in Mumbai. I am reproducing below the translation of his lecture, with some slight modifications that were needed to clarify certain points.---Yoginder Sikand ) . On November 26, 2008 Mumbai witnessed the worst kind of terror attack. Ten terrorists entered several buildings and indiscriminately fired at people, leaving behind several dead and wounded.    According to a tradition, at the time of the Prophet there was a man whose only concern was to speak negatively of the Prophet and spread wrong ideas about him. The son of this man became very angry and asked the Prophet to allow him to kill his father. The Prophet told him not to do that, as then people would say that the Prophet allowed killing among his people. The lesson which can be inferred from this incident is that anything, which defames the name of Islam should not be done. These incidents are mentioned in books but people fail to infer or draw lessons from them as they do not engage in deep study.   In the Jewish Talmud there are many stories. In one incident, the Prophet Moses prayed to God: “O! God, take anything away from my followers but do not take away their wisdom.” God replied: “O! Moses, if We decide to take away something from a community, it is their wisdom that We take away.”   Today, many Muslims have lost their wisdom, as is evident from the events which have taken place recently. Those Muslims who are said to be involved in terrorism in Bombay gained nothing. In Palestine, the Arabs have been fighting for the last 60 years and have not achieved anything. In many places Muslims have resorted to suicide bombings, although suicide is unlawful in Islam. This is a result of deterioration and lack of wisdom. Those who are behind these suicide attacks are not afraid of accountability and the fact they will have to stand in front of God after death.   What is the reason for this madness and how did it originate?   The reason for this madness is hatred. Hate can make a man do anything. Hate began from Satan. When God created Adam, He asked the angels and Satan to bow before Him. Satan however, did not bow and consequently, God said to him: “You and your followers will go to hell.” Satan had developed such hate for man that despite knowing that he will be cast into hell, he did not obey God’s command. Hate is so blinding that it can take one to hell.   I have studied in the Muslim seminaries, madrassas and have participated in numerous Muslim gatherings, and in many of these places hatred and pride is instilled in the minds of Muslims. They are taught: ‘We are the caliphs and vicegerent of God on earth.”   I once met an Arab whose first question to me was, “Who are we?”. He then said: “We are the Caliphs of God on earth.” I told him that this is not written anywhere in our books. The Sahih Al- Bukhari says that Muslims are witnesses of God. That is, they have to spread the message of God on earth. The same is alluded to in the Quran, that is, the task of Muslims is to spread God’s message and lead a life according to His instructions.   However, Muslims have made themselves the self-appointed Caliphs, and have launched all sorts of movements that propagate the ideology of capturing political power. This thinking emerged when the Ottoman and Mughal empires declined, and Muslims started considering the rest of the world as usurpers and oppressors who snatched their rights and power from them.   Political power is like an examination paper. A test paper can never be the monopoly of one; it would change hands from people to people as God wants to test every community. Hence if political power has been taken away from you then you need to have patience. When political power was with you then it was your test paper and now, when it has been given to someone else, it is their test paper. No Muslim leader could tell this to the Muslims and pacify the political shock which they received after the breaking up of the Muslim empires in the face of Western colonialism. No one told them that their test paper of political power was over and now they should concentrate their effort on some other constructive activities like education, reform, dawah work etc. In Palestine, for example, it was God’s decision to give the political power to somebody else. Hence, Muslims should have accepted it, but they started fighting and now 60 years of fighting has given them nothing. Muslims should have realised that God had now wanted to test some other community. Therefore, he gave them political power. But Muslims rose up to fight, and it was equivalent to fighting God’s decision and hence they attained nothing. As a result, all the Muslims got conditioned in hateful thinking.   Before the Second World War, the thinking of the Japanese was same as that of the Muslims. Hirohito was the Emperor of Japan at that time. The Japanese had the concept of Imperial Divinity, that is their king – the so-called ‘god-king’—should rule the world. Consequently, they fought with many countries. It was the Japanese who started the concept of suicide bombing known as “hara-kiri”. But in 1945 America dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and the Japanese army was completely destroyed. Japan suffered a humiliating defeat. Then the Japanese developed second thoughts, that is, if the king was god then he would have saved them, but because they were severely crippled due to those bombs they realised that the king was not god. Hirohito then renounced the concept of Imperial Divinity and the Japanese have never looked back since then.   This makes me ponder as to why this hate does not get finished among Muslims? This is because Muslims’ hate is a reflection of a certain mind-set. The so-called ‘god-king’ of the Japanese was proved wrong and therefore the concept of ‘god-king’ died. However, a mind-set cannot be done away on its own. The mind-set which inspires hate for others in many Muslims cannot be killed like an individual. Nor can it cannot kill itself. This mind-set can be replaced by deconditioning alone.   Hirohito said “I’m not god,” and this led the Japanese to discard their unfounded notions and pave the path to progress. But the case of Muslims is very different. In their case, their mind-set has to be transformed to change their thinking. The thinking of Muslims has to be changed. There has to be long process of deconditioning.   There are two kinds of deconditioning: one is the Prophetic deconditioning; that is the deconditioning which the Prophet did of his companions. Then the companions did the deconditioning of some of their companions. But now there is no prophet and so self-deconditioning has to be done. This is a very difficult task. Ideological deconditioning has to be done among the Muslims to help them come out of hate.   It is essential to understand that distinction between the negative engineering of the mind and the positive engineering of the mind. Today, minds are being negatively engineered with hatred and pride. Many Muslims live in this fallacy that they are a special race, and when they are not treated specially then they are frustrated and hold others responsible for their not receiving the special treatment that they expect. The mission of positive engineering of the mind is very difficult. You have to do merciless introspection. It is our test to convert the thinking of people from negative to positive.   The terrorists who assaulted Bombay had done extensive planning. This made me think why these people were so capable of negative planning, and completely lacked any inclination towards positive planning. This sort of mentality, unfortunately, has become endemic among many Muslims. Nobody is doing planning for the positive task of spreading God’s message, and love and peace. This is because as years passed by, this work became dead in Muslims. But it alone can promote positive planning as it requires well-wishing for the whole of humankind.  We must therefore focus our energies on spreading God’s love and restrain from any negative and destructive activities.   http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/the_mumbai_terror_attacks/0016990   From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 18:10:08 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:10:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Islamic" terrorists stocked liquor before Mumbai attack? Message-ID: Some news items are weird. On one had we are talking about "Islamic terrorists" having a religious brainwashing and so on from Pakistan, and on other hand they stocked chicken and liquor worth Rs.25000 in Colaba before the attack. What kind of Muslims were they? And they bought crates of chicken? were they planning to get it cooked by the chefs it in the Taj? Colaba terrorists have food stocks for three days Somendra Sharma Friday, November 28, 2008 01:50 IST http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1209852 The six terrorists who have made an Israeli family hostage at Nariman House building in Colaba can battle with the security agencies for at least three days without having to worry about food, local residents claimed on Thursday. "The terrorists came to Colaba on Wednesday evening," Mukund Shelke, who runs a grocery shop at Colaba Market, said. "Before barging into Nariman House, they had purchased adequate food to last them at least three days," he said. "They had purchased around two crates of chicken and liquor worth Rs25,000 from two shops in Colaba," another resident Joseph D'Mello said. "They then entered the Nariman House building and took the Israeli family captive." The locals said the terrorists were youths. Nobody suspected them to be being radicals, they said. It could not be ascertained from where they made the purchases, since all the shops in Colaba were closed on Thursday due to the heavy posse of security personnel. Some residents claimed that the suspects were keeping track of the police's movements through a television in Nariman House. "When the news of top police officials getting killed flashed in the television, we heard loud noises from the flat. It seemed they were celebrating," Anand Raorane, a resident in a building opposite Nariman House, said. From indiaonedge at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 12:19:17 2008 From: indiaonedge at gmail.com (indiaonedge wordpress) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:19:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Indian Frogs in a Well Message-ID: <7b288a440812022249g56158f90p8f60a66ae12b80f0@mail.gmail.com> Indian Frogs in a Well The show of single minded unity that for a rare moment gripped this vast country was only fleeting. The debate forums are back to rehearsed arguments over their easy binary distinctions, the politicians are back to passing the buck around while kicking up enough dust to make it seem like action, the media is flying off on tangents and has all but lost the plot, and the rest of us got back to our everyday selves, feeding our children and our hidden pyres of fear and loathing. With an incident of this magnitude, widely described as one that would 'change India forever' , what is this great inner force that pits us terribly against each other, that relentlessly churns this mass of people around in a sickening cesspool? Why is the story of the Indian frogs in a well so accurate and so damning? Like most big problems, the answers are mostly within, hidden deeply in our selves and not so much a creation of external forces. The fundamental reason, that causes me to desperately claw out at a fellow Indian who's views, ideas, attitudes, principles, personality, image, affiliations may be contradictory, or challenging to me is because I identify so strongly with that other person. It is like having a part of my own self that I see acting unlike what I know myself to be. Of going against my very grain - an errant mental strain that is trying to be something else - higher, different, opposite - to what i am. And the frustration I feel at this charade, this complete disregard for my own 'true' self is something that causes me to lash out with such violence. It is a violence against myself - of an inability to reconcile parts of myself that refuse to obey me. We would not get into impassioned debates and absolutely personal arguments and attacks of the kind we are so used to, with a person whom we do not identify with. Our oneness is the biggest cause for our divisiveness. And time and again, history shows this that there is no shortage of willing opportunists that would exploit this to their own benefit. The squabbling meanwhile, continues. http://indiaonedge.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/indian-frogs-in-a-well/ From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 18:48:23 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:48:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Rickshawalla and the promised Rs Twenty Five Message-ID: <47e122a70812040518r14f6c71eu7eabc9869a362b82@mail.gmail.com> The Rickshawalla and the Promised Rs.Twenty Five "Rickshaw, Rickshaw, Rickshaw", It was dark, when I called him, and Came a structure to halt. He was lean, dark skinned, sunken eyes, In comparison to his bright plastic seat cover print Of Apples on Mustard-Yellow. "Hospital Gate", I said, He said, " Pachees" ( twentyfive ) I said, "Bees" ( twenty ), and he moved. But he stopped, and we moved into His comfortable new Rickshaw, and The wheels moved on. Normally, I engage a Rickshawalla into A friendly conversation Which often results into a happy ending, With a rich insight into the life Of these poor simpletons, Who hail from nearby towns around Delhi. Today, with my spouse, I was silent, lost in the maze of my own world: that random overlapping of thoughts, you know. That way the short distance got reduced Even more, and brought the rickshaw to a sudden halt. I was home, And I instantly gave him Exactly Rs. Fifteen only He instantly shot back And said "Bees bola tha" ( I said Twenty ) But I said, "Pandra bola tha" ( I said Fifteen). He was furious, and grabbed my arm And demanded the difference Of Rs. Five. We argued, but I was sure That I had promised him Rs.fifteen only. But he was too adamant. This little fight attracted A ready-made audience. And we did disappoint none. I argued, in front of the public: Don't they charge Rs.Ten to Rs.Fifteeen For this small distance? But he stuck to just one point "Aapp to kuhd hi Bees bol kar Rickshaw mein baith gaiya" ( it was you who told me Rs Twenty Before getting into the rickshaw ) In the heat of the moment, not only I forgot, but I threatened him Police Action, And to my surprise, he was more than willing to bring Law into all of this. But I knew, he had little chance To convince the Police And who might thrash him as well " Aab tum java, zayaada Bakwas mat karao " ( Now you go, and stop this nonsense ) But he kept on venting this anger. Some one, in the crowd, even suggested " Gareeb hai, paanch ruppeay ki to baat hai " ( He is poor, just a matter of Rs. Five ) But something had blocked my thinking, so I balanced his slang with a slang. While we grabbed each others collars. But from the beginning, I knew, he would not Win. My height, my English and my financial status, Was light years ahead of him. Finally, my wife succeeded in dragging Me out from the fighting situation, But I stuck on Rs.Fifteen thing. " Katora lay kay bait java churahay paar " ( sit with a begging bowl at some crossing ) He said, while moving away. This charged me again, and I again started To abuse him with a slang Which he genuinely rewarded back to me. A fencing separated him and me, As I moved away from the battle zone. An overwhelming silence enveloped me. I kept on rubbing my left arm; there Was no pain, but I kept on scratching The skin of it, mindlessly. And then slowly and slowly, I remembered The promised Rs. Twenty. But he was gone. I quickly moved back Through another gate, To catch him somewhere, out there. But he was gone. There were so many Rickshawalas around, But he was gone. A Road Roller flattened me. I don't know how to be sad, even. Shanti, Shanti, Shanti looked dysfunctional. From zeenath.hasan at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 15:01:48 2008 From: zeenath.hasan at gmail.com (Zeenath Hasan) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:01:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] seeking conversations: Democratisation, Digitalisation, RTI Message-ID: <2BBEA7A0-C1AA-43B3-8709-2A20939B5277@gmail.com> Greetings, Inviting Sarai list members for a 1-on-1, face-to-face on digital practices for democratisation in following cities/ dates, Hyderabad, 2-6 Dec Delhi, 8-15 Dec Bangalore, 16-26 Dec Find a brief introduction to my research work here. Reply to me directly to hook up (zeenath.hasan at gmail.com). Victual of your choice in exchange for your valuable time. Also welcome are recommendations to initiatives/ individuals who are not fortunate enough to be on the Sarai list. Project Title: Telecommunicating Democratisation Introduction: The Right to Information (RTI) Act is a legislative instrument for the realization of the fundamental and human right to information. While the implementation of the RTI Act in India is motivated by the prospect of deepening the country's democracy, the operationalisation of RTI as a tool for empowerment of the citizen is not without its fair share of challenges. Civil society and mass media have highlighted the main issues for this bottleneck as being that of corruption, transparency and unaccountability on the part of the bureaucracy. NGO and activist interventions have sought to resolve these issues through advocacy campaigns, training programmes and citizens' movements employing creative media. Although these efforts go a long way in raising awareness of rights, the lack of sustainability is a check on there effectiveness. Telecommunicating Democratisation (TD) is a proposal for the participatory and collaborative understanding practices in governance based on active citizenship. The aim is to inform the evolution of a digitally networked tool to be deployed in the context of RTI, NREGA and PDS in rural Karnataka. Value: 1. For governance - Strengthen information exchanges between government and civil society by making accountable commitments, monitoring resource flows and tracking implementation progress. 2. For citizenship - Facilitate an engaged, involved citizenry with the capacity to discern the rights of others. 3. For democracy - Enable engagement in public discourse. The TD project can be regarded as a participatory approach towards a public representation of responsiveness. In anticipation, Zeenath .. zeenath hasan phd candidate media and communications studies http://webzone.k3.mah.se/K3ZEHA India: +91 (0) 96325 45088 Sweden: +46 (0) 76 1079601 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Wed Dec 3 03:45:47 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:15:47 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "Tumbarumba" by Ethan Ham and Benjamin Rosenbaum Message-ID: <038d01c954cb$88b55810$9a200830$@org> Turbulence Commission: "Tumbarumba" by Ethan Ham and Benjamin Rosenbaum http://turbulence.org/works/tumbarumba/ [Needs Firefox Browser and Tumbarumba extension] "Tumbarumba" is a frolic of intrusions -- a conceptual artwork in the form of a Firefox extension. "Tumbarumba" hides stories -- twelve new stories by outstanding authors -- where you least expect to find them, turning your everyday web browsing into a strange journey. "Tumbarumba" is a 2008 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the Jerome Foundation. BIOGRAPHIES ETHAN HAM is a sculptor and installation artist who often uses kinetics, electronics, and computers in his artwork. "Tumbarumba" is the second time that he has worked with Turbulence. His first commission was "Self-Portrait", an on-going search for "self-portraits" on Flickr.com using facial-recognition. Other projects include Mirror at the PS122 Gallery, a residency at the League of Electronic Musical Urban Robots (LEMUR), and "Email Erosion" for Rhizome.org. Ethan is an Assistant Professor of New Media at The City College of New York. BENJAMIN ROSENBAUM lives near Basel, Switzerland, with his wife Esther and his cute and alarming children, Aviva and Noah, who like to cook pancakes, sing recursive songs, and turn people into pigs. His stories have appeared in Harper's, F&SF, Asimov's, McSweeney's, Strange Horizons, and Nature; been nominated for the Hugo, Nebula, World Fantasy, BSFA, and Sturgeon Awards; and been translated into 14 languages; also, Noah told him he was fancier than Noah's elbow. His debut short story collection, "The Ant King and Other Stories", was recently released from Small Beer Press. Ethan & Ben previously collaborated on "Anthroptic" an artists' book commissioned by The Present Group. For more Turbulence commissions, please visit http://turbulence.org Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Dec 3 14:52:15 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (JavaMuseum) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:22:15 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Final_call=3A__N?= =?iso-8859-1?q?etart_Features_2009?= Message-ID: <20081203102215.4A888D65.78C35AFE@192.168.0.2> JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art http://www.javamuseum.org ---------------------------------- Final call: Netart Features 2009 ---------------------------------- deadline: 31 December 2008 ---------------------------------- JavaMuseum founded in 2000 realized since 2001 more than 20 showcases of netart in a global context, and hosts a comprehensive collection of netart from the years 2000-2005. More http://www.javamuseum.org/blog/?page_id=6 Also in 2009, JavaMuseum will continue its netart features. Artists working on the field of Internet based art are invited to submit up to 5 works completed after1 January 2005. The complete call, including regulations and entry form can be found here---> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=329 ------------------------------------ JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art http://www.javamuseum.org is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ------------------------------------ info (at) javamuseum.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 21:13:02 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:13:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Seven Questions about Mumbai Message-ID: Seven Questions Neelabh Mishra A colleague asked, 'So, what is your conspiracy theory about these horrible happenings?' Conspiracy theory I have none, but I do have a set of seven questions that have elicited no definitive answer in the current chatter and intrigue me no end. After various conjectures, speculations and angry or anguished advice had eaten up miles of footage and reams of newsprint in the wake of the nightmarish Mumbai carnage, a colleague still asked, 'So, what is your conspiracy theory about these horrible happenings?' Conspiracy theory I have none, but I do have a set of seven questions that have elicited no definitive answer in the current chatter and intrigue me no end. Here they are. 1. How many terrorists struck Mumbai on the fateful night of November 26? We are sure about minimum 10 as the security personnel managed to slay nine in fierce encounters and capture one alive. But the police claim to have found 15 sets of blankets and winter jackets on the speedboat that witnessed the murder of its crew members and is supposed to have been hijacked by the terrorists for transporting themselves to Mumbai from Porbandar in Gujarat. Besides, News Channel Aaj Tak telecast the interview of a supposedly rescued victim Sajan Kapur, who claimed he was sent to the Taj hotel by ATS officer Vijay Salaskar and had seen around 17 terrorists there and not just four as claimed the security agencies. Will anyone explain these different figures? 2. Coming to Sajan Kapur, a friend points out in a write up on the web that this guy just vanished from the scene after the Aaj Tak telecast. No other channel or newspaper pursued him nor did Aaj Tak follow up on his claims. Why this blackout? Did he prove to be a phony witness who gave a misleading account? If so, with what intent? Or was he whisked away by the security agencies for investigation and they are keeping it hush-hush? 3. Kapur's account on Aaj Tak was interesting. He claimed to have overheard an exchange between two of the terrorists, who openly flaunted their Pakistani links, in which one asked how much money these Indian politicians had and the other replied what is that to do with you as you have received your amount. Did Kapur imply that the attackers were Pakistanis paid off by Indian politicians? With Kapur vanishing from the scene, there is nobody to explain this part of his story either or his credibility or motive. 4. Coming to the hijacked boat, the police account reported in the media suggests a mystery in the nature of its ownership and control. The legal owner Masani disclaims any knowledge about its actual operations as he had handed over its control to his brother through a power of attorney. The brother had in turn sublet it to somebody else who hired other people to run it. What is this mystery of legal ownership being at four removed from the people who operated the boat? And what kind of operations was the boat usually involved in? 5. The boat's hijacking at Porbandar in Gujarat testifies to a local support structure for the terrorists. Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi does not tire of continuously claiming to have generally rolled up terrorist networks in his state. He has also been very vehement in blaming the center and the Maharashtra government for the attackers being able to reach Mumbai unhindered. He also claims to have warned the Maharashtra government about the possibility of an attack on Mumbai launched from the sea. How come the terrorists found themselves bold enough to launch the attack from the coast of Gujarat, a state he rules with an iron hand? 6. The question of the strange coincidence of Pakistani terrorists finishing off the top leadership, including Hemant Karkare, of the ATS involved in probing a supposedly Hindutva terrorist cell whose avowed aim was to retaliate violently against Pakistan sponsored terrorism is also intriguing and needs explanation.I am not suggesting that the Hindutva extremists hired Pakistanis to do their hatchet job and in the process gave them the bonus of additional carnage to satisfy their murderous instincts but wondering about the circumstances of ATS leadership being led into a position of extreme vulnerability to terrorist fire. 7. And finally, how is it that whenever the Hindu rightist extreme seems to be in dire straits as with the current Sadhvi-Purohit-Pandey terror investigations, some violent action undertaken supposedly on behalf of Muslims or Pakistan, as the case may be, comes to their aid and also vice versa? For instance, recent Delhi blasts overshadowed the violence against Christians by Hindutva extremists in Orissa, burning of karsevaks on a train in Godhra and Akshardham attack respectively helped Narendra Modi in elections. And Kargil had helped both the BJP and Musharraf in their bid for power in their respective countries. Who plays whom or is there another unseen puppeteer? http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081203&fname=neelabh&sid=1 From ravig64 at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 15:25:35 2008 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:25:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In the shadow of the Vulture Message-ID: Dear all, >From 12th to 21st December, Delhi will host its first public eco art show . Called 48 deg C (www.48c.org) it will have 25 public art installations along sites close to the metro line. As part of it I am putting up an installation at Mandi House, outside the National Museum of Natural History. My theme deals with the extinctions of vultures from Delhi and its near extinction from the subcontinent. The Museum has the last of these - stuffed. Alongside there is an event - The Vulture Readings at the MMB on December 18th at 3:30 pm, where some invited people will read on their idea of extinctions and how we can think about this word. I invite all those who can, to please come and participate. Below is an essay which forms part of my installation: I hope we can think of 'extinction' as a reflection of the times we are living in. Best wishes ravi agarwal =========================================== *In the Shadow of the Vulture* * * *The Docile Dead Keeper* It is true, we all seem to be going somewhere. Very fast, and quick. The question is where? All around us, there are extinctions, as things get blurred and we cannot see what we step on, all sacrificed for the sake of the journey. But where does the journey lead to – what would we have learnt during it, that will form our future. It may be said that the barrenness will be fertilized with new dreams, new hopes and new possibilities. Yet, is that true? Do we really believe in this idea, or is the speed of the present so exhilarating that we cannot make sense of the landscape any more, since it is so very fuzzy? Maybe we are scared to see that it may be barren, very, very barren. For one species, which came upon this planet, probably over a 100 million years ago, there is no journey left. Almost. The vulture is increasingly no more. Wiped out, from the staggering tens of millions in number in the sub continent, even a couple of decades ago, to less than tens of thousands. Over 95% of them have died, in the largest mass extinctions ever known in the recorded history of mankind. All killed, amazingly by one innocuous pill! Maybe, it is a sign of times. Maybe, the wise vultures have departed on their own. Decided to withdraw from the cycle of evolution. After aeons of changing, adapting, evolving, co-existing, it may have become just too much to cope with. The world is no longer possible to survive in, and hence there is no future in it. What the biggest earthquakes, volcanoes, meteorites could not do, has happened in the time when we, as the human race, claim as a time of 'civilization.' A sign of animals and birds sensing a tsunami much before we can? The vulture is carrion. It is seemingly dirty, large and scary. It feeds on dead flesh. Why on earth should we bother for it? What we fail to recognize, in the age of abattoirs and incinerators, is that the vulture is also on top of the food chain, doing nature's job of ensuring that all dead are disposed of safely. It is also an unusually caring bird, nesting and bringing up its young with great devotion and tenderness, besides the fact that it only feeds on dead animals, but normally does not hunt. It is the docile dead keeper of the planet. Only doing its job, and helping nature complete its ongoing cycle. *The Pill* Surprisingly, in the end, all it took was a simple pill. That pill proved more powerful than all the vagaries of nature such a species must have faced over millions of years. This pill was meant to reduce pain in ones muscles, especially in livestock, so that they can produce more milk, more often. Livestock as industry. A simple drug, which helps animals like cows and buffaloes, become better machines to produce more milk – not to feed their young but to feed the dairies, which feed us. For unknowingly the cows and the buffaloes became the bait, the poisoned bait, which took the vultures out. But coming back to the cows and buffaloes which meant no harm to the vultures except they offered themselves as food once they were dead. No big armies here. Just a pill, diclofenac, like aspirin, which we fed to the vultures through the carcasses of the cows and other slaves, and silently destroyed the kidneys of the vultures. First their neck would droop, then they would salivate, and then finally fall from the tree – dead. Perfect. Like nerve gas. Chemical warfare. But no one is really asking why was such a pill necessary in the first place? For over a century now human beings have been making and synthesizing chemicals for the benefit of human - kind. Over a hundred thousand such chemicals have been put out already. But no one knows what other harm they do to our lives and life forms which have inhabited this planet for millions of years. These are all considered safe till proven otherwise. While diclofenac did reduce body pain, it also made extinct a life form which had evolved over maybe a billion years – who knows from the beginning of time itself. Such is our intelligence and sensitivity and belief in our industrial systems. Such is the nature of the industrial systems we have created, and the methods of science we encounter. It was in 1962 that Rachael Carson wrote the book 'Silent Spring." The observant scientist, reviewed thousands of papers, and predicted that chemicals like DDT are destroying the ecology of our planet. DDT and similar chemicals, she stated is causing the extinction of eagles, or leading to the genetic distortion of fish and other marine animals, which are continuously exposes to them, even in very minute quantities. Similar impacts have also been detected in human beings now. Through bringing home the increasing impacts of chemicals in our lives and the unintended and /or the unstudied impacts they have on our lives, she drew attention to the need of 'precaution.' However the market based economic systems do not have any place for such approaches. If it is good for the market, it must be good. The chemical and pharmaceutical industry has fought regulation, information transparency and independent research for over a centaury. Their financial and political clout makes us believe that everything that is introduced on the market is benign. The onus of the burden of proof is on us. Hence the drugs are safe, unless proven otherwise. "Prove it!" is the motto. It is not by accident that it took over a decade to ban 'diclofenac." This ban is also only for 'veterinary' use, and not for human use. It is not uncommon to find the drug being diverted from human to veterinary use. The story of the near extinction of the vulture is also the story of the fiscal and political power of our economic and industrial processes It is indeed a reduced life we inhabit, and the loss of the vulture is evidence of that. * * *The Lengthening Shadow* The vulture did well, over time. It did well enough for the Egyptians to equate it with mother (*Mut*), or Cleopatra to wear them on her thrones and crowns. It also did well to be the great *Garurda*, king of birds which was faithful to the mighty Rama, or the winged warrior of the American Indians. It did well with everyone who saw life in its entirety and respected all they did not know and did not fully understand. It was killed in a time when 'knowledge has substituted the 'knowing' of things. Simultaneously it is harder to see sparrows, or rose ringed parakeets flying home every evening around our homes. Tales of tigers dying, elephants being killed, rhinos being poached, saras cranes disappearing are descending all around us. Maybe this is the age of man-made extinctions! Or maybe man has always led to extinctions – like the cheetah, the bison, the great American eagle, or now even the disappearing honey bees! How does a species which has survived for millions of years, just die out in a matter of a years? In the past too, there have been mass catastrophic extinctions- the disappearance of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, or the extinction of the dodo. The dinosaur died seemingly as a result of a massive meteor collision with Planet Earth, which blanked out the atmosphere with dust, blocked the sun, and essentially snuffed the pre-historic and some massive creatures out. The dodo was hunted to extinction, unable to fly away from the arms bearing humans. Our ecologies are changing. In the way we relate to the city, or the manner in which our network of relationships functions. The extinction of natural systems, of a biodiversity of ideas and connections, the discourse is reduced. Development seem to need an unnatural unipolarity and focus, but what lies its counter charge? In fact what is 'development' and how do we understand that term which seems to drive all our energies today? In the shadow of the vulture we live. When wisdom passes, maybe the wise pass on too. The Vulture is dead. Long may we live. From shahzulf at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 16:59:45 2008 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Sindh Harri Convention: Long March Announced for Amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act Message-ID: <736667.84269.qm@web38801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sindh Harri Convention   Long March Announced for Amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act   Thousands of peasants participated Sindh Harri Convention, organized by South Asia Partnership – Pakistan, Sindh Office on December 4 at Hyderabad. The participants of the event demanded the amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act and carrying out land reforms in the country.   It was announced in the event that SAP-PK [Sindh Office] and other civil society and peasants’ organizations will jointly carry out a Long March from February 15 to February 28, 2009 from Hyderabad to Karachi and will stage a sit in at Sindh Assembly Building for the amendments in Sindh Tenancy Act.   The speakers, discoursed about the peasants’ issues, included Karamat Ali, PILER, Irfan Mufti, SAP-PK, Zulfiqar Shah, SAP-PK Sindh, Rochiram, Ms. Farheen Mughul, MPA Sindh Assembly, Jami Chandio, CPCS, Mohammad Ali Shah, PFF, Punhal Saryo, SHPC, Hussain Bux Thebo, Ramzan Memon, BHS, Prof. Ejaz Qureshi, Ghaffar Malik, SDS, Ghulam Mustafa Chandio, SHT, Dr. Nazeer Memon and other.   Following resolutions were passed in the event:   1. Amendments should be made in Sindh Tenancy Act and it should be re-drafting according to current socio-economic situation of Sindh   1. Land reforms should be implemented in its originality. The land ceiling should be fixed to 50 acres irrigated land and 100 acres non-irrigated land.   1. All laws and regulations regarding land developed under colonial era should be abandoned and commercialization of land should not be promoted.   1. Under Haq-e-Shifa, the agriculture land of about 8 acres should be allotted to the landless agriculture workers and peasants’ families.   1. The agriculture land occupied by or allotted to military farms and government departments should be revoked and distributed among the landless peasants under the principle of Haq-e-Shifa.   1. Land allotted through auctions, awarded or given in claims should be revoked and distributed among the landless peasants except for the land actually cultivated by the landholders themselves.   1. The illegal occupation of the land distributed in land reforms should be abandoned and possession should be given to the allottees.   1. Land record (of agriculture and non-agriculture lands) should be computerized and made public through internet.   1. The International Financial Institution funded mega projects in the name of irrigation reforms should be stopped.   1. Privatization in the irrigation and agriculture sectors should be stopped.   1. Communities of Indus Delta, Taunsa and other mega project affectees should be rehabilitated.   1. Agriculture policy should be developed with the consultation of agriculture scientists, peasants, agriculture workers and growers.   1. Legislation should be made against the pollution of crops, on ground and underground land resources.   1. Legislation should be done to stop utility of chemicals, artificial fertilizers and pesticides, laboratories and research institutions should be set up for promoting the natural fertilizers, insecticides and pesticides.   1. State should be responsible to provide agriculture machinery and energy.   1. Adult literacy and necessary trainings should be planned for peasants and agriculture workers.   1. A quota for children of peasants and agriculture workers proportionate to their population should be managed for the institutions of technical or higher education. The educated boys and girls of peasants and workers should be given employment in the agriculture institutions.   1. Health and education should be ensured for peasants and agriculture workers and the rural settlements.   1. State should decide minimum wages for agriculture worker   1. Corporate farming should not be initiated in Sindh where rural poverty is highly associated with the in-equal distribution of land and highest ration of sharecropping and land less tenants.   1. Allotment of forest land to the influential persons should be revoked and re-allotted to the peasants as per agro-forestry policy.   1. The occupied surveyed or un-surveyed lands in Kacho, Kaacho, Kohistan, Kach, Bailpat, Thar, Thal and elsewhere, should be re-surveyed and distributed among the landless tenants and agricultural labor.   1. Support price of crops in line with the international market prices, should be declared before planting and/or harvesting.  Sugarcane, rice and wheat crops of Sindh may not be discriminated in that process.   1. Role of middlemen in the crops sale and purchase should be abandoned.   1. Agriculture Markets / Centers and industries be set up and the facility and training of processing and modern packing be provided.   1. Sufficient number of go-downs and cold storage units should be developed so that crop produce could be stored and preserved.   1. Legislation should be done for the peasants rights to develop trade unions, attains social justice and old age benefits. New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 19:36:28 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 19:36:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deoband tells Muslims: no cow slaughter on Eid Message-ID: Avoid cow slaughter on Eid-ul-Azha: Deoband to Muslims 5 Dec 2008, 1740 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: Leading Islamic seminary Dar-ul-Uloom has suggested to Muslims in the country that they avoid slaughtering cows on Eid-ul-Azha as a mark of respect to the religious beliefs of Hindus. The appeal has been supported by the All India Organisation of Imams of Mosques (AIOIM), which had earlier asked Muslims to put black ribbons on their shoulders as a symbol of their solidarity and grief for the victims of the Mumbai terror attacks. In a booklet detailing the concept of 'qurbani' or sacrifice on the occasion of Bakri-Eid, brought out by Deoband-based Dar-ul-Uloom, the seminary has advised Muslims to refrain from sacrificing cows to avoid hurting sentiments of the Hindus. "They (Muslims) may slaughter other animals that are approved by the Shariah," the booklet said, asking Muslims to respect the sentiments of other Indians. Established in 1866, Dar-ul-Uloom is the most respected school of Islamic teaching in the subcontinent. AIOIM President Hazrat Moulana Jameel Ahmed Ilyasi said slaughtering cows hurts the sentiments of Hindus and "we should not do anything that will disturb communal harmony in the country". Ilyasi also asked Imams all around the country to pray for the victims of the Mumbai terror attacks during Eid prayers and express solidarity with Mumbaikars. "They should pray to the Almighty during Eid prayers for restoring peace in the country," Ilyasi said http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Avoid_cow_slaughter_on_Eid_urges_Deoband/articleshow/3797689.cms From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 23:28:46 2008 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:28:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Take our help to secure coast: fishermen Message-ID: <3457ce860812050958hb1694cva93c04efefba307@mail.gmail.com> National [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *Date:05/12/2008* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2008/12/05/stories/2008120556221400.htm* *Take our help to secure coast: fishermen * Ignatius Pereira KOLLAM: "It was the fishing community which provided the first authentic information that the terrorists, who went on a three-day killing spree in Mumbai, had reached the city through the sea," Harekrishna Debnath, chairman of the National Fishworkers Forum (NFF), said on Thursday. Talking to The Hindu here from Kolkata over phone, he said that in the light of the terror attacks, the NFF intended to spread awareness among the fishing community all over the country on the need to complement the security agencies as information providers to protect the country's more than 6000 kilometre coastline. Mr. Debnath, who is also the convener of the National Coastal Protection Campaign, said that the three-day MFF general body meeting at Rameshwaram in Tamil Nadu from December 14 would take up the subject earnestly. "Even historically, fishermen were the first line of defence along the maritime boundary of the country," he said. The fishing community had always been cooperating with the security agencies. But often they were not taken seriously. Instead of seeing them as the group with the biggest potential to make our maritime boundaries more secure, the security agencies often created problems for them. In fact, fishermen had been the main victims of terrorist and pirates, be it from Pakistan or Sri Lanka, he said. In the wake of the Mumbai incidents, there should be a genuine relationship in an organised manner between the security forces and the fishing community. There should be a formal understanding to bring the community to play a role in the national security loop as informants. Mr. Debnath said that the Coastal Zone Management (CZM) Notification would be a big challenge to national security. The notification would open up the coast for private ports, with immunity to the law. They also posed a challenge to the environment and the livelihood of the fishing community. NFF secretary and president of the Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation, T. Peter, said that the fishing community was instinctively coastal protectors. Fishermen were the de facto protectors of the 3 km coast of the Vikram Sarabai Space Centre in Thiruvananthapuram. The establishment may have CISF guards on the land, but the sea was under the vigil of the fishing community. He wanted the government to support the efforts of the fishermen by providing them good communication equipment at concessional rates. Often the fishermen were the first to notice mystery vessels on the high seas off our coast, he said. But when the information was passed on to the security agencies, they were simply ignored. He said granting permit to over 50 Indonesian fishing vessels to utilise the facilities of the Munambam habour near Kochi was not the right step in the present situation. Any vessel could misuse the permits to enter the harbour. From jhasadan at hotmail.com Fri Dec 5 11:36:36 2008 From: jhasadan at hotmail.com (jha sadan) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:36:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Romila Thapar and Peter Brown share John Kluge Prize Message-ID: Dear all, Following mail from H-Asia might be of some interest to subscribers of this list. warmly, sadan. H-ASIA December 3, 2008 Professor Romila Thapar shares John Kluge Prize, Library of Congress ************************************************************************ From: Frank Conlon I have just received word from my colleague Priti Ramamurthy that Professor Romila Thapar will share the Kluge Prize from the Library of Congress along with Peter Brown of Princeton University. A fair use copyrighted article from the Washington Post follows: Historians Brown and Thapar Will Share $1 Million Kluge Prize By Joel Garreau Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, December 3, 2008; C05 Two historians of antiquity -- one Irish, the other Indian -- are sharing the $1 million Kluge Prize, the Library of Congress is scheduled to announce today. Peter Robert Lamont Brown, 73, a professor of history at Princeton, is on sabbatical while writing a book examining attitudes toward wealth and poverty in the later Roman Empire. Ranked by his peers as among "the greatest historians of the last three centuries," Brown is "a scholarly Prospero whose magic consists in equal parts of learning and eloquence," says fellow Princeton historian Anthony Grafton. Romila Thapar, 77, is emeritus professor in history at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. Reviewers such as Indian studies scholar Indira Peterson have described her as "the preeminent interpreter of ancient Indian history today" and "virtually the only living historian of ancient and pre-modern India who has risen to the rank of world-class historians," according to Richard Salomon of the University of Washington. In honoring Brown and Thapar with what it calls "America's Nobel," the Library of Congress noted how both authors have tackled great sweeps of time, geography, language and culture. Brown has focused on the end of the Roman Empire and the rise of Christianity as well as Islam. Among his landmark works are "The World of Late Antiquity" (1971) and "The Rise of Western Christendom" (1996). In addition to the major European languages, his language skills include Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, Syriac and Turkish. "Brown writes magically engaging English," says Ramsay MacMullen, professor emeritus of classics and history at Yale. "He engages with Christianity with a respect for the true believers' true beliefs. The founding block of his super reputation was an article on ascetics, which he calls holy men. He managed to make holy men digestible to a rationalizing audience -- rather than weirdos eating grass." Thapar's 1966 "A History of India" and her 2002 update, "Early India," were breakthrough works, replacing a static view of Indian traditions with one that featured the dynamic interplay of political, economic, social, religious and other factors, the library noted. Her many books draw on works in Persian and Arabic as well as Sanskrit and Old Tamil, while integrating insights from folklore, archaeology and even numismatics. "She's been a courageous champion, fighting against the politicization of history by various ideological parties -- and that goes for both the extreme left and the extreme right," says Robert Eric Frykenberg, professor emeritus of history and South Asian studies at the University of Wisconsin. "She fought against the skewing of textbooks so that they would be nothing but a government-sponsored propaganda machine." The Kluge Prize honors lifetime achievement in studies not covered by the Nobel, including history, philosophy, politics, anthropology, sociology, religion, criticism in the arts and humanities, and linguistics. John W. Kluge, 94, the media billionaire, donated $60 million to the Library of Congress in 2000 to create an academic center and the eponymous million-dollar prize. Nearly 3,000 nominators were consulted about this year's prize. Their suggestions were winnowed to 286 contenders representing 90 nations. An elaborate selection process produced 11 finalists. James H. Billington, the librarian of Congress, made the final call. The award will be presented next Wednesday in the Thomas Jefferson Building of the Library of Congress. Thapar and Brown will split the $1 million --------- The news of such recognition of a distinguished Indian historian is a most welcome arrival in a time when other news has been rather grim. Congratulations to Professors Thapar and Brown. Frank Frank F. Conlon Professor Emeritus University of Washington Co-editor, H-ASIA _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://in.msn.com/matrimony From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 21:51:53 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:51:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Heart has its reason :Contemporary Art from J&K : Message-ID: <47e122a70812050821s3023c091s72dea206e673b540@mail.gmail.com> You are cordially invited to the opening of an exhibition of works by Jammu & Kashmir Artists at Arpana Art Gallery, 4/6 Khel Goan Marg, Institutional Area Sri Fort Road, New Delhi-49 On 6th Saturday Dec. 2008. at 5.30 P.M. To be followed by poetry reading Chief Guest :DR. Kapila Vatsyayan. Artists expected to participate : A.K. Raina, Amit Salathia, Anjali Khosa, Ashok Kaul, Ashwani K Sehj, D.N.Wali, Deepak Sharma, Devi Dass Khattri, G.R.Santosh, Gayoor Hassan, Harsh Vardhan, Hilal Ahmed, Iftikhar Zafar, Inder Salim, Jyoti Singh, K.K Khosa, M.K. Bhat Kumud, Masood Hussain, Milan Khajuria, Mir Imitiyaz, Mohd. Sadiq, Nasreen Mosin, Neeraj Bakshi, P.N.Kachroo, Pawan Tikku, Raja Jai Kishen, Rajesh Anand, Rajender Tikku, Rakesh Kumar, Rohit Verma, Shabir Mirza, Shabir Santosh, Shafi Chaman, Shiqua Mohi, Shally Mahajan, Sukjeet Singh, Surpal Singh, Triloke Kaul, Veer Munshi, Vijay Saraf, Yousf Jamwal, Zahoor Zargar, Geeta Dass Exhibition will remain open on 7th to 12th Dec. 2008 11 AM to 7 PM. Poets expected to participate: Bimla Raina, B.N.Betab, Chander Kanta, Deepika Wattal, Fayaz Dilbar, H.K Kaul, Inder Salim, Keshav Malik, Nank Chand Sahyogi, Neha Tickoo, Padma Sachdev, Pandit Vidha Rattan Aasi, Prem Nath Shad, Ravinder Ravi, Shama, Shanti Veer Kaul, Upinder Raina. 8th Dec. 2008 open discussion on Art and its Antecedents 6.PM. Event Initiated by Keshav Malik ( Art Critic/Poet ) -- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sat Dec 6 16:38:33 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:08:33 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Jerry Saltz says Art Market is "Magic Mushroom" Message-ID: Jerry Saltz spealing @ Art Basel Miami Beach "This Is the End: the Rising Tide of Money Goes Out of the Art World and All Boats are Sinking" "We won't be talking about the prices anymore. Marketability will no longer equal likeability." Artists like Damien Hirst and Takashi Murakami—"Artists who have become the gods of Mammon," he said—may find their reign coming to an end. "Sometimes when you think you are playing the system, my friends, the system is playing you," he said. "These guys, what happened is they think it's a big deal to make art about the market, and the problem is that the market is not a real thing. The market is a combination of many, many things. It's a magic mushroom…it's a place to support junkie-like behaviour in public." "Where you're going is not hell, it's heaven. This is the art world a lot of you younger people have always wished for, and it has come. It has come." Andrew Goldstein/REUTERS/LUCAS From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 7 00:47:13 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:17:13 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Sydney Artist Fuses Islam with Surfboards Message-ID: <158D5ED0-CB85-4391-9604-87557C36F25F@earthlink.net> As the art market collapses, and people run for cover from the fast paced approach of a collision of fundametalisms... hey! where's the best place to seek cultural understanding? Paul http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7769028.stm Sydney art fuses surf with Islam By Nick Bryant BBC News, Sydney Phillip George wants to bring Islamic art to a wider audience An Australian artist has produced a range of Islamic surfboards in an attempt to create a greater understanding between East and West. Phillip George was inspired by his trips to the Middle East and by riots in 2005 when Lebanese Australians were targeted on a beach in Sydney. He has called the range the Inshallah - or God Willing - surfboards and has put them on exhibition in Sydney. There are 30 surfboards in all, each adorned with intricate Islamic motifs. Mr George hopes that the Inshallah surfboards can help bridge cultural and religious misunderstandings within Australia. His inspiration has come from his travels and also from the Cronulla riots, when a crowd of mainly white Australians gathered at a beachside suburb of Sydney and targeted people of Middle Eastern appearance. This is an attempt to fuse the Australian beach culture with the Islamic culture, he says. The boards are adorned with intricate patterns from Islamic culture "What I've done to bring the joy and the interest of our Islamic art to an Australian audience," said Mr George. "I have actually transposed a lot of my photographic images - the work of the tiles and shots of the mosque - on to a surfboard so that they become a lot more acceptable or easy to digest for an Australian audience." The exhibition, Borderlands, is at the Casula Powerhouse arts centre near Sydney. All the surfboards face Mecca, and visitors have included schoolchildren from Cronulla, a mainly white suburb, and pupils from Sydney's Islamic schools. This is not the first time that symbols of the Australian beach culture have been used in this way. A local designer has already brought out what she calls a burqini - a full-length swim suit to make Muslim women feel more comfortable at the beach. From image.science at donau-uni.ac.at Sun Dec 7 02:38:47 2008 From: image.science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:08:47 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] live call for papers - deadline reminder Message-ID: <493AF813.4147.007D.0@donau-uni.ac.at> This is just a gentle reminder >>> ::: Call For Papers * Deadline 19th December 2008 ::: Re:live - Third International Conference on the Histories of Media Art, Science Melbourne 26-29 November 2009 www.mediaarthistory.org The media art history conference Re:live has currently confirmed keynote speakers Stelarc and Zhang Ga. There are a number of events happening prior to the commencement of the Re:live, making Melbourne the place to be in November 09. ::: Currently planned events ::: -- The Leonardo education Forum LEF at Re:Live 25th November 09 --- SymbioticA workshop: 16 - 20 November 09 ---- Australian Network for Art and Technology (ANAT) are presenting SuperHuman - Revolution of the Species: symposium, exhibition, masterclass, public talk 22 - 25 November 09. ::: Call ::: Following the success of Media Art History 05 Re:fresh in Banff and Media Art History 07 Re:place in Berlin, Media Art History 09 Re:live in Melbourne will host three days of keynotes, panels and poster sessions Media Art History 09 - Re:live, a refereed conference, is calling for papers, panels and posters on the histories of digital, electronic and technological media arts. With the theme of Re:live we are especially interested in expanding the range of topics to include sustainability, live arts and the technological arts of life, both organic and nonorganic. --How do the media arts change? Through innovation, accident, discovery, mutation or crisis? How did contemporary media arts come to look and sound like they do? What options and potentialities and eccentricities in the history of media have been lost or overlooked or suppressed? What hopes have been realised and which dashed? What is the history of speculation on alternate histories, and how have they altered the course of media art history? ---Participants are encouraged to look at the themes suggested to address in submitting abstracts at www.mediaarthistory.org ----We particularly wish to encourage presentations from and about these histories in the Asia-Pacific region. Proposals are welcomed from artists, curators, arts organizers and researchers in media, art history, performance studies, literature, film, and science and technology studies. Abstracts of 200 words can be submitted as text, rtf, pdf or doc files via the dedicated website with updates and online paper submission system at www.mediaarthistory.org. Sean Cubitt and Paul Thomas, conference co-chairs. forwarded by:: Department for Image Science at Danube University, Austria Media Art History conference series partner and web-platform home Media Art History Master Program www.donau-uni.ac.at/mah www.donau-uni.ac.at/telelectures From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 7 03:04:08 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:34:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Vigils for Mumbai victims & India-Pk peace In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0812040040p31837313i4d4e9921bedde8b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0812040039y30372c3cj935747357f1e0a3c@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0812040040p31837313i4d4e9921bedde8b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What is being witnessed now since the advent of Pakistan sponsored pan Islamism inspired terrorism in Kashmir in 1989-90 when the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were subjected to ethnic cleansing in the valley then, continued bloody terror attacks in rest of India (the leads invariably leading to Pakistan & POK via Kashmir) can by no means be described as 'peace' between the two countries. So what 'peace' are we talking about? Civilised world must build pressure against covert as well as overt patronage to pan Islamic terrorism in Pakistan now in particular when innocent Pakistanis them selves are falling prey to the menace that was founded to bleed India. Regards LA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:40:19 +0500> From: yasir.media at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Vigils for Mumbai victims & India-Pk peace> > From: Beena Sarwar> > Information about vigils:> > DEC 4: Karachi, London, & Boston, Worcester (MA) & Providence, RI> DEC 6: San Fransisco> Already held: Dec 2, UPenn> > Forthcoming:> > Dec 4 (TODAY):> > - KARACHI: 5.00 pm, Karachi Press Club, Pakistan India Peoples Forum> for Peace and Democracy (PIPFPD) & Peace Karachi, candle lit vigil> for Peace against carnage in Mumbai & Karachi. "Plz join us & say no> to War & every kind of Hatred."> > - LONDON: 6:00–9:00 pm, India House. Joint vigil by Pakistanis and> Indians to express their grief over the Mumbai attacks and> solidarity; extracts from the draft statement:> "… If the objectives of the terrorists are to be defeated, that> sense of brotherhood, shared grievance, and unwillingness to be> driven apart must extend across the border, to Pakistan. We cannot> allow ourselves to be manipulated and polarised through violence; we> cannot allow the terrorists to win."> > - MA & RI: Simultaneous candlelight vigils at City Halls in BOSTON &> WORCESTER, MA and on the State House steps in PROVIDENCE, RI, 6pm,> organized by the Asian American Commission to remember the victims of> the Mumbai killings. Contact: Raj Cell: 508-523-5784> > DEC 6, SAN FRANCISCO: City Hall, peace rally by concerned South Asian> Americans -- Pakistanis and Indians -- to condemn the recent Mumbai> Terror attack and call for Pakistan and India to work together in> promoting peace, justice, and prosperity in the region> Press release at: http://docs.google.com/View?> docid=ddkdhzkn_14fqhcz7fd> Event endorsed by:> Friends of South Asia | http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/> Indian Muslim Relief and Charities | http://www.imrc.ws/> Pakistan American Cultural Center | http://pcc-ca.org> Pakistan Science and Engineering Foundation | http://paksef.org> South Asia Disaster Relief Coordinators | http://sarelief.com> Alliance of South Asians Taking Action (ASATA) | http://www.asata.org> > Re: vigil held recently, on Dec 2:> Maria Khan at UPenn writes that students, including Pakistanis and> Indians, held a candlelight vigil at campus on Dec 2 where they> circulated a pamphlet (written by two Indian graduate students at> Penn, one from Mumbai). Extracts from pamphlet, `IN THE AFTERMATH OF> TERROR, THE TERROR OF THE AFTERMATH':> > "In the heat and hurt of the moment, we must not lose sight of> important issues and their possible ramifications:> "• …The need of the hour is to recognize the commonality of the> suffering instead of falling prey to jingoistic nationalism…> "• The call to Mumbaikars to get back on their feet is not an> innocuous appreciation for their resilience; rather, such rhetoric> allows the government to evade responsibility. The Indian government> must be held accountable for the massive intelligence failure that> has claimed so many lives.> :• We condemn this act of terror but do not equate terror with Islam> because not only does this false equation play into the hands of> Hindu fundamentalists in India but it also feeds anti-Muslim> sentiments that are being stoked globally in a post-9/11 world.> "• We should act with caution when framing the attacks in Mumbai> as "India's 9/11." We express solidarity with those who lost loved> ones on 9/11, but are apprehensive about taking the analogy much> further. We do not want the Indian government to replicate the US's> responses nor engender the consequences thereof - neither in its> repressive domestic policy nor in the perpetration of acts of terror> in other parts of the globe.> "In the wake of this tragedy, we grieve those we lost and salute> those who gave their lives to save others. We stand in solidarity> with Mumbaikars and with those the world over who have been or> continue to be victims of terror in all its myriad forms.> > " Students in solidarity, University of Pennsylvania"> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Searching for the best deals on travel? Visit MSN Travel. http://in.msn.com/coxandkings From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sun Dec 7 03:19:02 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 21:49:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Imams call for black ribbons on Bakr-Eid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If only such calls were issued when the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamism inspired terrorism raised its monstrous head initially in Kashmir in 1989-90 when the hapless Kashmiri Hindu Pandits were subjected to ethnic cleansing in the valley, possibly things would not have been so terrible today( all leads in most 'jihadi'teror attacks in rest of India lead to Pakistan & POK via Kashmir) Even now there is no condemnation of those who seek 'azadi bara e Islam'( freedm through Islam) in Kashmir. Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:59:06 +0530> From: javedmasoo at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Imams call for black ribbons on Bakr-Eid> > Imams call for black ribbons on Bakr-Eid> 4 Dec 2008, 0345 hrs IST, TNN> > NEW DELHI: Close on the heels of Mumbai's Muslim Council refusing> burial space to the Pakistani terrorists killed in the Mumbai attacks,> a group of imams here has come out strongly against the attacks and> asked the Muslim community to wear a black ribbon on Bakr-Eid as an> expresion of solidarity with those killed in the outrage.> > The imams, under the banner of All India Organisation of Imams of> Mosques, called for subdued Eid-ul-Azha (Bakr-Eid) festivities across> the country, scheduled for Tuesday.> > The imams described the Mumbai carnage as an attack on the nation, as> it appealed to all the mosques, muftis and madrasas to reiterate in> this week's Friday prayers that Islam forbids the killing of innocent> people and is against any form of terrorism.> > "We are deeply aggrieved by the loss of human lives and especially by> the brutal killing of Jews," they said in a statement.> > "We have to think above caste, class, region and religion. It's an> attack on India and all true Indians should come forward and salute> the martyrs who sacrificed their lives for the sake of the country,"> it said.> > Prominent clerics from both Shia and Sunni sects on Wednesday called> for decisive action against Pakistan. A joint communique signed by> Maulana Khalid Rasheed Firangimahali, the naib Imam of Idgah, Maulana> Mohammad Mushtaq, president of All India Sunni Board and Maulana> Naimurrehman, president of the Ulema Council of India, demanded firm> action against terrorists in order to restore faith of people in> effective governance.> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Imams_for_black_ribbons_on_Bakr-Eid/articleshow/3790308.cms> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://in.msn.com/matrimony From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 7 07:51:04 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 02:21:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] 2025: the end of US dominance In-Reply-To: <492E4069.5000301@ranadasgupta.com> References: <492A615C.1010406@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40811241412u2e3627a1v1f7d97007bb6bdb0@mail.gmail.com> <492E4069.5000301@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812061821t4ff18823kc4de70bfd85b6553@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rana, Even on a morning like that one... Frankly I do not know whether seemingly spontaneous acts of terrorism have any co-relationship with policy documents. I agree to your point that this document is symptomatic of the fact in the ways in which an organization address itself but I disagree to the formulation that it's importance is an any way 'limited'. After spending a year at the archives I have come to deeply respect the often banal, day to day conversations carried out by the powers that be, precisely because these are the documents that give us an idea of the movement of thoughts that often takes years to condense before they form an attitude or govermentality, if you may. In the light of this don't you think that as people who are trying to understand and make meaning of a complex, intertwined, and an unfolding social reality, we must be careful in reading such documents. Its rhetorical power may not be of any comparison to the best in the trade but I would like to believe that it is this bareness, this barrenness and this brevity that makes this document and many hundreds of thousands of such documents a potential net wherein human lives are coldly trapped and mutilated forever. Best Taha On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:38 AM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > Dear Taha > > On a morning like this... > > I have to say I thought the document was of interest in more limited > ways than you - in the sense that it is an internal US government report > that is focussed on policy formulation. It is interesting as a sign of > how the US government talks to itself rather than anything else - and as > you say, many other forms of discourse have already travelled much > further along the same lines. > > Four years ago, the US government told itself that US dominance of > global affairs would continue for the forseeable future; it can no > longer speak with that confidence. This loss of confidence is, I think, > interesting, but it is also inherently neither good nor bad - it remains > to be seen how the Obama administration will take it on. > > > consensus building arguments. It seems like after the mind numbing, eye > > inverting, psycho drama of -change- and yes-we-can, the hydra is making > > its presence felt. Telling all of us, that now it is time to go back to > > 'serious', 'expert oriented', 'hard-quantitative data analysis'. > > Does this document merit such resentment? Does it have the rhetorical > power you give it? > > (And why "mind numbing, eye inverting"? Is only the "hydra" worthy of > your respect?) > > Peace > > R > > > Frankly > > speaking, I felt relieved reading this document. It had the smell of old > > familiarity.Like one more carefully articulated position of the hegemon > > to reengage with the new world albeit under old premises. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 10:56:41 2008 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:56:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] DCOS Agreement on Procurement in Support of Interoperability and Open Standards emerges at 3rd IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <35f96d470812060458x431a1fe7ja9624c52e1b052cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <1228565140.7861.5.camel@green> <35f96d470812060458x431a1fe7ja9624c52e1b052cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35f96d470812062126s2c97d820t5d22e29faa257b58@mail.gmail.com> 6 December 2008 At the close of the final day of the 3rd Internet Governance Forum in Hyderabad, India, the Dynamic Coalition on Open Standards (DCOS) released an agreement entitled the "Dynamic Coalition on Open Standards (DCOS) Agreement on Procurement in Support of Interoperability and Open Standards." Under the procurement agreement, governments, publicly funded and non-profit institutions agree to promote interoperability and accessibility through the use of open standards. Anivar --------- Dynamic Coalition on Open Standards (DCOS) Agreement on Procurement in Support of Interoperability and Open Standards 3rd Internet Governance Forum (IGF) Hyderabad, India 6 December 2008 Preamble The Contracting Parties, *Recalling* the World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) Declaration of Principles which states that "[i]nternational standards aim to create an environment where consumers can access services worldwide regardless of underlying technology," *Recognizing* that standards are increasingly global concerns, involving goods and services that move in international trade across borders, *Aware* that current competition and legal remedies may not be enough to solve the inherent tensions that routinely arise in the realm of patents and standards, *Desirous* of encouraging procurement policies that require evaluation of multiple, competing products based on open ICT standards in order to ensure a level playing field for vendors, governments and consumers, *Cognizant* of the need for procurement policies for software programs that are predicated upon an open standard, Open Standards ============= Given the multiplicity of interpretations of the term open standards, for the purpose of this document we endorse as an acceptable definition the position contained in the European Union's draft European Interoperability Framework: 1) The open standard is adopted and will be maintained by a not-for-profit organisation, and its ongoing development occurs on the basis of an open decision-making procedure available to all interested parties (consensus or majority decision etc.). 2) The open standard has been published and the standard specification document is available either freely or at a nominal charge. It must be permissible to all to copy, distribute and use it for no fee or at a nominal fee. 3) The intellectual property - i.e. patents possibly present - of (parts of) the open standard is made irrevocably available on a royalty free basis. 4) There are no constraints on the re-use of the standard. (IDABC EIF v2 draft (http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7728)) As noted in the European Interoperability Framework cited above, open standards or technical specifications must allow all interested parties to implement the standards and to compete on quality and price. The goal is to have a competitive and innovative industry, not to protect market shares by raising obstacles to newcomers. Thus, open standards or technical specifications must be possible to implement in software distributed under the most commonly used open source licences, with no limitations arising from patents associated with the standard in question. In addition to the above requirements, it is recommended that there should be multiple independent implementations of the standard. *Governments, publicly funded and non-profit institutions* agree to implement the following policies. Governments, publicly funded and non-profit institutions Hereby agree to the following measures in order to promote interoperability and accessibility through the use of open standards. 1. To create a policy statement on interoperability and open standards, to be available to employees and the public. 2. By 2010, procurement of all software should be vendor neutral and implement open standards 3. By 2010, tender specifications for hardware (including peripherals and mobile devices) should require that manufacturers provide the driver and interface information necessary to work with a reasonable range of proprietary and free operating system platforms. 4. By 2010, all public facing web pages should conform to W3C standards for structure, presentation and accessibility. 5. By 2010, tenders for the supply of web based services (for example, online reservations) must specify the requirements of point 4. 6. By 2010, agencies should implement policies regarding the storage and archiving of government data and records to ensure that data is stored in open data and document formats. Signed by the following parties: -------------------------------------------- Aslam Raffee, Government IT Officers' Council, OSS Working Group,Republic of South Africa Association for Progressive Communications (APC) Bob Jolliffe, Freedom To Innovate, South Africa Centre for Internet and Society, India Eddan Katz, Electronic Frontier Foundation Hamid Rabiee, Sharif University of Technology, Iran Knowledge Ecology International Moving Republic, India Shuttleworth Foundation, South Africa Swathanthra Malayalam Computing, India Endorsed by the following parties: ------------------------------------------------- Bangladesh Friendship Education Society, Bangladesh Indian Social Action Forum (INSAF), India Foundation for Media Alternatives, Philippines OpenForum Europe -- Anivar Aravind http://anivar.movingrepublic.org 7/1, 1st Floor, 1st Cross , Ankappa block J.C Nagar, Bangalore -560006 Ph +91 9449009908 / +91 80 23435606 -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 11:28:51 2008 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:28:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Call for support: Pirates of the Amazon, taken down by Amazon.com In-Reply-To: <20081204233158.GB2871@box.lan> References: <20081204233158.GB2871@box.lan> Message-ID: <35f96d470812062158n24019739t3eaed4646c0a3d8d@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Florian Cramer Date: Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:01 AM Subject: Call for support: Pirates of the Amazon, taken down by Amazon.com To: Nettime-l Many Nettimers might already have read about www.pirates-of-the-amazon.com. The website provided a Firefox add-on that changed the experience of browsing Amazon.com by putting a slick "Download 4 Free" button on top of every product - whether a CD, DVD or book - also listed as a bittorrent on The Pirate Bay. Clicking the button on the Amazon.com product page for, say, Madonna's latest album would yield a background search on The Pirate Bay and start up a bittorrent client to download a corresponding torrent. After being published this Monday, the project made headline news on digg.com and has been covered among others by CNET , the Washington Post and currently more than 1000 blog entries worldwide. Via its provider, the project received a take down request by the lawyers of Amazon.com yesterday. In our point of view, the legal grounds for that are contestable since the add-on itself did not download anything. It only provided a user interface link between the web sites Amazon.com and thepiratebay.org. Nevertheless, the creators complied to the request, taking both the add-on and original web site offline. What is perhaps more disturbing however, are the openly hostile and aggressive Internet user comments in blogs and on digg.com. Unlike in a comparable situation only a couple of years ago, the majority of commentators failed to see the highly parodistic and artistic nature of "Pirates of the Amazon". The project was created by two students at the Media Design M.A. department of the Piet Zwart Institute Rotterdam, one of them being a student in the course, the other being an exchange student from the New Media programme of Merz Akademie Stuttgart. The work was part of a regular trimester project. We - jaromil, the project tutor, and Florian Cramer, the head of the course - were the academic supervisors of this work. We supported and encouraged it from its early beginnings. What's more, we're proud to have such students and such interesting work coming out of our teaching. Apart from its humorous value and cleverness, the project is interesting on many levels and layers: For example, not just as a funny artistic hack of Amazon.com and The Pirate Bay, but also as a critique of mainstream media consumer culture creating the great "content" overlap between the two sites. We clearly see this project as a practical media experiment and artistic design investigation into the status of media creation, distribution and consumption on the Internet. With the take down notice from Amazon.com, our students have been scared away from pursuing their art, research and learning in our institute. We do not want a culture in which students have to preemptively censor their study because their work confronts culture with controversial and challenging issues. We would like to gather statements in support of the "Pirates of the Amazon". The students are turning their web sites into a documentation of their project and the reactions it triggered. If you would like to support them and contribute a short statement, please get in touch with us. Florian Cramer & jaromil # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mail.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. From rohitism at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 14:48:35 2008 From: rohitism at gmail.com (Rohit Shetti) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:48:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Take a deep breath!! Message-ID: *Latha Jishnu:* Stop! Take a deep breath GOING CRITICAL Latha Jishnu / New Delhi December 06, 2008, 0:21 IST http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/latha-jishnu-stop-takedeep-breath/00/21/342367/ India's worst terrorist attack occurred not in Mumbai last month, but in Bhopal 24 years ago - and it's the kind of carnage that goes unheeded. What determines the gravity and enormity of an outrage? Is it the number of casualties? Is it the brutality with which the attack is carried out? Is it the ideology of the perpetrators along with their religious affiliation that determines the scale? Or is there some other yardstick, like the magnitude of human suffering and its long-term consequences? Last week's terror strike on Mumbai, according to a well-orchestrated campaign, was India's 9/11, the equivalent of the al-Qaeda attack on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon in the US eight years ago. The facile logic offered for this claim is that the three-day siege of the hotels and a guesthouse in Mumbai were the worst terrorist attacks on the country, and thus India's 9/11. As such it also seeks a Rambo-like response of hot pursuit and vengeance in which India slams terrorist cells here and across the border. Class has a lot to do with this perception. The current hysteria emanates mainly from a slice of society that suddenly finds itself as vulnerable to massacre and mayhem as the working class travelling in overcrowded commuter trains have been. For the rich it has been a disaster without parallel: their iconic playgrounds have been violated and nothing appears secure any more even in their gated universe. The hitherto unstated fear and loathing is out in the open now, with society's elite seeing terror slithering out of the slums sprawled at the foothills of their luxury towers. But there has to be more than class at play when a country can chose to turn its back on the worst disaster of all times and pretend that it is part of the civilised world. December 2 marked the 24th anniversary of the Bhopal gas leak tragedy and not all the terrorist strikes in recent years can equal the horror and magnitude of that event. On the night of Dec 2, 1984, a date that ought to be seared in the collective Indian memory, around 30 tonnes of methyl isocyanate and hydrogen cyanide, deadly gases both, leaked from Union Carbide's pesticide factory and enveloped Bhopal, turning parts of the city into a gas chamber. The International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal (ICJB), a solidarity of volunteers fighting for redressal, says around half a million people were exposed to the gas and over 20,000 have died so far as a result of their exposure. Among the 150,000 seriously affected, at least 50,000 are too sick to work for a living. Worse, children born to gas-affected people suffer from serious congenital defects. Some have no lips, ears or noses, others no hands or feet. Around 3,000 are estimated [WINDOWS-1252?]— does anyone keep a proper body count in the slum areas? [WINDOWS-1252?]— to have died in the siege of Bhopal as people ran blindly across the city on that bitterly cold winter night with no official assistance or security forces to guide them. Would TV cameras have provided non-stop coverage of this terrorist strike by an American corporation and their Indian partners who have refused to accept culpability? It would have called for battle-like readiness, gas masks and all, to venture into such a zone where no sound bytes would have captured the full horror of the scene. As TV channels go ballistic about an inefficient and inept government that allows Indian territory to be used for increasingly daring terrorist strikes, there is a deep irony in this for survivors of the gas tragedy. For 24 long years they have been fighting for justice, thwarted at every stage by their own government that has done little to bring the US multinational to book. Instead, it brokered a shameful deal with Union Carbide for an out-of-court settlement that provided compensation of just $470 million against an initial claim of $33 billion. Yet, yesterday, they were celebrating the hardy spirit of women who have battled companies destroying the environment with their annual Chingari Award. Their courage and determination offer many lessons. This is something that the class of people who are hoping for a US-like response to the terror strike and government need to learn. The crisis of survival for millions in Bhopal, in the wake of what many consider the worst peace-time disaster of the last century [WINDOWS-1252?]— albeit one perpetrated by a corporate entity [WINDOWS-1252?]— poses a tremendous challenge for India. It requires a wholesale clean-up of the government machinery and not just the security set-up, as indignant Mumbai citizens are demanding. It involves getting something as basic as clean drinking water for the sick and dying victims of Bhopal to a more complex environmental, economic and medical rehabilitation programme. To prevent other Bhopals, one would need to tighten the working of practically every department and enforcement agency of the government, from state pollution control boards to the sanitation and water departments. Does Middle India, myopic and self-serving, have the stomach for a campaign of this nature? The Bhopal survivors have shown courage and perseverance of a rare order, battling legal systems here and in the US, official apathy and corporate deviousness with steely resolve. Earlier this year, they managed to wrest a landmark victory by getting the government to agree to set up an Empowered Commission on Bhopal, and take legal action on the civil and criminal liabilities of Union Carbide and Dow Chemical. This commission, however, is yet to be set up, marking what could be another phase in the battle for justice. It would be interesting to see how far Corporate India is willing to go in rebuilding systems and society. To the Bhopal crowd and their global supporters, multinationals and Indian companies have become synonymous with deceit and irresponsibility. In 2001, Dow Chemicals took over Union Carbide but it has rejected the claim that it is responsible for Union Carbide's liabilities. Instead, it has sought the help of industrialists like Ratan Tata to bail them out of a sticky situation. This has only served to besmirch the Tatas, who have become a target of the Bhopal campaign. Frustration and anger is the zeitgeist of the times. At both ends of the spectrum, Indians are disenchanted with a system that is indifferent to their well-being and security. How the government responds will determine how successful the terrorists have been. If the government can undo the damage in Bhopal, then it would have learned to take on the terrorists as well. -- In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. --- Albert Camus ____________________________________________________________ From desiinlondon at yahoo.co.uk Sun Dec 7 17:52:06 2008 From: desiinlondon at yahoo.co.uk (Gautham Subramanyam) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:22:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 226 References: Message-ID: <952374.44557.qm@web24002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: "reader-list-request at sarai.net" To: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Friday, 28 November, 2008 12:19:28 Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 226 Send reader-list mailing list submissions to reader-list at sarai.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to reader-list-request at sarai.net You can reach the person managing the list at reader-list-owner at sarai.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. test mail (tetra) 2. Terrorists target Mumbai Jewish centre (Aditya Raj Kaul) 3. Clay factory: forum plans agitation (T Peter) 4. India, like Israel, has to fight terror on its own by Barry Rubin (Aditya Raj Kaul) 5. Enough is enough by Ashok K. Mehta (Aditya Raj Kaul) 6. An article on the situation in Singur (Dibyajyoti Ghosh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:29:59 +0530 From: tetra Subject: [Reader-list] test mail To: reader-list at sarai.net Message-ID: <492E6F9F.1030403 at sarai.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed test mail please ignore ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:04:16 +0530 From: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Subject: [Reader-list] Terrorists target Mumbai Jewish centre To: "sarai list" Message-ID: <6353c690811270334u1b65c587re58150c9e60c14fe at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252" Terrorists target Mumbai Jewish centre By Amy Kazmin Published: November 27 2008 09:09 | Last updated: November 27 2008 09:09 Link: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/94143da6-bc5f-11dd-9efc-0000779fd18c.html For thousands of Jewish travellers visiting Mumbai each year – ranging from Orthodox business people to young Israeli backpackers – the five-year old Chabad House was an important port of call, offering services that ranged from Kosher meals to holiday services to the sympathetic ear of a young rabbi. But on Wednesday night, the Chabad House was one of the carefully-selected targets of the devastating terror attacks that rocked Mumbai. An Israeli rabbi connected to Chabad House was among at least three people being held hostage by gunmen. According to Reuters a woman and a child were released and one of the gunmen was killed. However, at least four armed men remained in the building by mid afternoon on Thursday Mumbai time. The choice of the Chabad House as a target, heightening suspicions about the attackers' potential international links, or influences. India's own radical Muslims have traditionally focused their wrath on the dominant Hindu population and has never previously targetted India's tiny and diminishing indigenous Jewish community, which number just a few thousand. The founders of the Chabad centre, Rabbi Gabriel Holtzberg, a young Israeli who also holds US citizenship, and his wife Rifka, were part of the Chabad Lubovitch movement, which is dedicated to deepening religious practice and observation among Jews – both faithful and secular. Along with working in traditional large Western centres with large Jewish populations, young Chabad rabbis, known as emissaries, have in recent years spread to far-flung corners of the globe, including Asia, catering to the needs of both local Jewish communities, often expatriates on assignment in business centres, and Jewish travellers. Besides promoting religious worship, study and observance, Chabad rabbis in Asia are also known for their support and aid to Jews in distress, whether as a result of illness, injury, trouble with the law, or other problems. Rabbi Holzberg and his wife set up the Chabad House in Mumbai about five years ago, soon after he finished his rabbinical training, during which he also spent a year working with a a Chabad rabbi in Bangkok. Since then they had a son, who is now two-years-old "Like all Chabad rabbis everywhere, he is a one stop response for everything a Jew would need – spiritual or material," said Rabbi Yosef Kantor, a Chabad rabbi in Bangkok, who worked closely with Rabbi Hertzberg. "He is a man with a very big heart...He was very committed to the mission he took upon himself – to do whatever was necessary to fulfill the needs of the Jewish community there." The Mumbai Chabad House – which owned the building in which it was located – catered especially to growing numbers of business travellers coming to the city each year. It also catered to some of the large numbers of Israeli backpackers who typically travel around India after completing their military services, as well as to the needs of Mumbai's own historic, but small and rapidly shrinking indigenious Jewish community. Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:58:00 +0530 From: "T Peter" Subject: [Reader-list] Clay factory: forum plans agitation To: reader-list at sarai.net Message-ID: <3457ce860811270828y64151834hd3803d969f4c7fd9 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" *Clay factory: forum plans agitation * ** *Date:27/11/2008* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2008/11/27/stories/2008112762180300.htm* Special Correspondent ------------------------------ * Wants factory to adhere to PCB norms 'Factory was given nod without an eco survey' * ------------------------------ Thiruvananthapuram: The Theeradesa Mahila Vedi has accused the Industries Department of trying to absolve the management of the Ashapura clay factory at Pallithura of the charges of pollution. Addressing a press conference here on Wednesday, Vedi leaders Freesca Kurisappan, Maglin Peter, Pushparani and Vimaladas said water and air pollution caused by the factory had made life difficult for people in the neighbourhood. They alleged that the plant had been functioning for over six months without adhering to the conditions laid down by the Pollution Control Board. "Many people are suffering from breathing difficulties and skin ailments. The emissions from the factory cover the whole area and water sources are polluted." Ms. Kurisappan said the government could not ignore the plight of the people. "We are not against development or industrial ventures. But when hundreds of people are affected by pollution, the authorities should take action," she said. She said the factory had been permitted to start operations without conducting a survey to assess the environmental impact. The Vedi submitted a memorandum to the government demanding that the factory be allowed the resume operation only after ensuring that it meets the pollution norms. Vedi leaders will stage a 24-hour dharna before the Secretariat on Thursday to press their demand. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:34:14 +0530 From: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Subject: [Reader-list] India, like Israel, has to fight terror on its own by Barry Rubin To: "sarai list" Message-ID: <6353c690811271104r58e5b684mc5b314f36ff29cd3 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" *India, like Israel, has to fight terror on its own* *Barry Rubin Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/137436/India-like-Israel-has-to-fight-terror-on-its-own.html * For years, India has been subjected to periodic terrorist attacks throughout the country. But what happened in Mumbai is something new and different: A full-scale terrorist war. This is the kind of threat and problem Israel has been facing for decades. What are the lessons for India from Israel's experience point also reflected by India's own recent history? First, India needs and has the right to expect international sympathy and help. It will get sympathy but will it get help? Once it is clear that other countries must actually do something, incur some costs, possibly take some risks, everything changes. If the terrorists come from bases or training camps in Pakistan, after all, India wants international action to be taken. Pakistan must be pressured to close such camps, stop helping terrorists, and provide information possessed by Pakistani intelligence agencies. But how might this happen? Will Western countries make a real effort? Are they going to impose sanctions on Pakistan or even denounce it? Will they make public the results of their own investigations about responsibility for the terror campaign against India? Not likely. After all, such acts would cost them money and involve potential risks, perhaps even of the terrorists targeting them. Moreover, they need Pakistan for various things, notably to cooperate on keeping down other Islamist terrorist threats, not spread around nuclear weapons' technology too much, and being cooperative on maintaining some stability in Afghanistan. This parallels Israel's situation with Syria, Lebanon, and Iran. For decades, the United States and some European countries have talked to the Syrian Government about closing down terrorist headquarters in Damascus. The Syrians merely say "no" (though sometimes they have just lied and said the offices were closed). The United States even did put on some sanctions. But by being intransigent, pretending moderation, and hinting help on other issues, Syria has gotten out of its isolation. So, despite all the pious talk about fighting terrorism, in real terms, India -- like Israel -- is largely on its own in defending itself from terrorism. Another problem India faces, like Israel in the case of Lebanon, is that it is dealing with a country that lacks an effective Government. Pakistan is in real terms a state of anarchy. Even within the intelligence apparatus, factions simply do as they please in inciting terrorism. Given popular opinion and Pakistan's Islamic framework, even a well-intentioned Government would be hard-put to crackdown. In Israel's case, the whole rationale for regimes like those in Iran and Syria is a radical ideology. So pervasive is the daily incitement to hatred and the lies, that popular opinion supports the most murderous terrorism. The murder of Israeli civilians brings celebrations in the Arab world. The usual types of appeals to law and order, holding Governments responsible for their actions, shaming them, or going over their heads to appeal to the masses on humanitarian grounds simply don't work. So what's a country to do? It will consider cross-border raids against terrorist camps or retaliation to pressure the terrorist sponsor to desist. Sometimes it will actually take such action. But can India depend on international support for such self-defence measures or will it then be labeled an aggressor? How much is India willing to risk war with Pakistan even though it has a legitimate *casus belli *due to covert aggression against itself by that neighbour? And let's not forget that Pakistan has nuclear weapons, a situation which Israel may soon face in regard to Iran. Now we can see the logic of terrorism as a strategy by radical groups and countries pursuing aggression by covert means. The terrorists and their supporters have lots of advantages; the victims are not only put on the defensive but have to make tough decisions about self-defence. Finally, there is the dangerous "root cause" argument. Many Western intellectuals and journalists -- as well as some Governments -- are ready to blame the victim of terrorism. In Israel's case, despite desperate efforts to promote peace, making of concessions, withdrawals from territory, and offer of a Palestinian state, it is said to be the villain as not giving the Palestinians enough. The terrorists and their sponsors use this situation to their advantage. By being intransigent -- demanding so much and offering so little -- they keep the conflict going and are able to pose as victims simultaneously. Will some suggest that if India merely gives up Kashmir and makes various concessions, the problem will go away? This might not happen but it is worth keeping an eye on such a trend. The Indian Government is thus going to have some very tough decisions to make. How will it try to mobilise real international support, not just expressions of sympathy for the deaths and destruction? In what ways can it seek to destroy terrorist installations and deter their sponsors? Israel's experience offers some lessons: Depend on yourself, be willing to face unfair criticism to engage in self-defence, take counter-terrorism very seriously, mobilise your own citizens as an active warning system, and decide when and where to retaliate. Defending yourself against terrorism is not easy. Unfortunately, even in an era of "war against terrorism" those truly willing to help in the battle are few and far between. -- *The writer is director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center and editor of the Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal.* ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:35:19 +0530 From: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Subject: [Reader-list] Enough is enough by Ashok K. Mehta To: "sarai list" Message-ID: <6353c690811271105n4cb51819u451ab2eab0871313 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" *Enough is enough* *Ashok K Mehta Link - http://www.dailypioneer.com/137434/Enough-is-enough.html * This is India's worst hour. Infinitely worse than the 1962 Himalayan disaster that broke the morale of the country. The war against Mumbai is war against India. The moral can be that psychological scars will endure. Forty-five years after that fateful event with the world's fourth largest military, a bountiful economy, a disorganised but working democracy and an impressive information technology knowledge power status, India with both hard and soft powers is still imminently vulnerable and emphatically undefended against terrorism, indeed all threats to internal security. The oldest victim of terrorism is also the most unprotected and doing little to correct it. Otherwise why would any Government worth its salt tolerate a terrorist attack a month spread all across the country, losing more lives to terrorists than to enemies across the border? India's reputation as a soft state, to turn the other cheek if you like, has been reinforced. Added to it is the conviction among *jihadis* of all colours that you can travel to Delhi, Mumbai and Hyderabad or anywhere in India, mount terror attacks, and escape scot-free. Impunity attaches now to terrorism committed in India. This is not a new war on Mumbai but the continuation of the 1993 serial bombings to cripple the commercial capital of the nation and to destablise rising India. The terrorists's commando-style operation is a masterly plot as sophisticated as 9/11 - striking 11 targets ironically routed through the Gateway of India. The first non-state actor, the British East India Company, used this landing site as one of its entry points to subjugate India. The route appears to have been reopened to terrorists, aided and abetted by local sympathisers. The response to the terrorist attacks has been confused and feeble which is not surprising. The terrorists have created a unique and unprecedented situation of hostages in three places. Our people have very little expertise in negotiating in hostage situation. Dealing with this will be tricky for the security forces. We need to be cool and firm to tide over the multiple crises largely of our own creation. No further dithering will do in meeting the terrorist challenge. India needs a Patriot Act or National Security Act forthwith, coupled with a Department of Homeland Security under the direct charge of the Prime Minister. It is time to appoint a professional National Security Adviser with a military background. All this must happen in 100 days as announced by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. National political consensus on national internal security is a must. This is not only India's last chance to act but also to be seen to be serious about it. The nation's credibility is at stake. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:04:53 +0530 From: "Dibyajyoti Ghosh" Subject: [Reader-list] An article on the situation in Singur To: reader-list at sarai.net Message-ID: <4c56e2cc0811250734t1b4b712ekcdae11f0dfd6e102 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252" *Under Development: Singur* Dibyajyoti Ghosh The 1-lakh Tata Nano is in trouble. While most people protested against State-sponsored violence in Nandigram – the proposed site for Salim group's 10,000 acre chemical hub (which is now supposed to come up in Nayachar) – Singur and the Tata Motors plant was already one step ahead in the path of industrial re-development in West Bengal. State-sponsored violence in Singur had been far more effective as no one had died (except for Tapasi Malik, a teenager who was raped and murdered by cadres of the ruling party, the CPI(M) for having taken part in the protest movement against the Nano factory). Farmers who committed suicide because they had been deprived of their livelihood because the government had forcibly taken away their land, did not obviously make it to the tally of deaths caused by the factory. Singur was never really opposed in the popular media. The largest media house in West Bengal wrote editorials urging the state government to quell any protests in Singur, as the Tata Nano plant, it said, would magically revitalise the state's economy and bring about development for all. The atrocities in Nandigram (because the people there had learnt lessons from Singur and had dug trenches around their own land so as to prevent potential acquirers from forcibly coming in and evicting them from their lands) were of a greater magnitude to arrest the attention of the masses. A hundred thousand people (according to the leading English daily in Kolkata) came out on the streets on 14th November 2007 to protest against the violence in Nandigram, yet Singur, it seemed, never affected so many people to make any such token gestures. The absence of large-scale bloodbaths (except for the ones on 25th September and 2nd December 2006) seems to have given a no-objection certificate to the displacement of several thousand people and deprivation of their livelihoods as it was all for the greater good of the state of West Bengal. Though the protests against the Singur plant was initially started by local residents of Singur, the Singur Krishi Jomi Rokkha Committee (Singur Save Farmland Committee) was soon appropriated by the Trinamool Congress (TMC) and most protests by local residents were under the TMC-led SKJRC banner. The independent voices of the local farmers of Singur were soon swallowed up in the larger state-wide TMC fold. The construction of the factory went on at its own pace till the panchayat elections of 2008 when buoyed by the victory in Singur and Nandigram, the TMC decided to lay siege outside the factory demanding the return of the 400 acres (of the 997 acres in total) of farmland that had been acquired forcibly from unwilling landowners. Work within the Tata Motors factory was impeded because of the siege immediately outside one portion of the factory. After a discussion between the CPI(M)-led Left Front government and the TMC-led opposition mediated by the governor of West Bengal where the opposition's main demand (among many others) was that the 400 acres be returned and the government's assurance that about 47 acres would be returned at least and much bargaining over the exact quantum of land, the discussions went into one of its prolonged indecisive moments like several others since the issue broke out in 2006. Ratan Tata decided to shift the Nano plant out of West Bengal and to Gujarat. This was heralded by most as the death knell for industry (which is naively equated with development) in West Bengal and much hue and cry has been raised over the destructive nature of the TMC's protest movements. With the TMC proposing to continue its protests if the land that is no longer going to be use to supposedly build the Tata Nano factory is not returned to the original landowners. The government, who agreed to pay a much larger compensation (though still deemed too little by many including most importantly, some of the farmers who were dependent on the land) after the meetings mediated by the governor, was forced to be less harsh and unjust on the farmers dependent on the land and this coming down from its high arrogant position was again seen by many villagers of Singur as a small symbolic victory for them. The government is now citing the archaic 1894 Land Acquisition Law to point out that it cannot return the land on technical grounds (though some lawyers have pointed out that certain technicalities allow the land to be returned). However, going by the WB chief minister's way of doing things, such trivialities are hardly an issue since he had said that all wrongs could be set right if the land acquisition notice in Nandigram was torn up and thrown away. The Singur issue has again reached a crucial juncture as with the exit of the Tatas, issues such as whether to return the land or not, how to ensure that the fertility of the land (which has been covered with cement and been rendered uncultivable) is restored and how much compensation (whether to compensate for all the work lost since 2006 when the land was acquired) are all burning issues which need to be sorted out quickly and fairly so that the local farmers of Singur dependent on the land do not suffer any longer. Larger issues of industrialisation and development need to be talked about as it is this which will decide whether the multi-crop and highly fertile land of Singur needs to be used for industry or whether it ought to be restored to its previous cultivable state. Public pressure seems to have firmly gone up against the TMC. Though some (such as the leading media house in West Bengal) have been consistently against any opposition to the Singur factory, others accept the unfairness and brutalities of the government in forcibly acquiring fertile land, rendering several thousands jobless and setting up a car factory over there. Yet, some who were opposed to the setting up of the car factory thought that the best compromise in a situation where such a factory had already been started to be made would be to let it happen and the TMC protests and Ratan Tata's decision to shift the project to Gujarat has left things in the middle of two chasms. Neither have the farmers been adequately compensated as yet and the factory been made to operate giving jobs to a chosen few from across the world. Nor has farming been allowed to exist peacefully so that the local populace could have gone on with their lives as before. They feel that the TMC's protests were ill-timed and the protests should have acquired this magnitude earlier before the factory construction started or it should not have happened now at all and the factory should have been allowed to continue. The problem with this argument is that the protests had indeed been quite fierce following the State-sponsored violence on 2nd December 2006. In spite of the TMC's gestures such as breaking furniture in the state Assembly, several protest marches by non-partisan bodies had been organised at that point of time. But, they did not acquire the magnitude of a 100,000-strong force such as after the CPI(M) recapture of Nandigram. And the TMC's protest then was albeit of a very different nature, instead of a siege, there were frequent strikes or bandhs in the city and its most histrionic extreme was the fracas in the state Assembly. Thus, the TMC, as the leading opposition, cannot be said to have stepped on the gas too late though it is obviously milking the situation for political mileage. Till the West Bengal panchayat elections of 2008, the factory came up with very little opposition such as the occasional breaking down of the boundary walls or torching of security watchtowers by disgruntled and exasperated farmers. Meanwhile, a meagre compensation had been allocated for the landowners and though the chief minister had publicly said that landless farm labourers would get 25% of the compensation given to the landowners, no such information was officially communicated to the landless farm labourers by the panchayat or other local government officials. Secrecy was practiced and encouraged, the exact agreement between the government and Tata Motors being the most notable one in the Singur project. The factory was coming up and while the leading English daily of Kolkata was publishing imaginary shopping lists for the festive season where the lists included both the iPod Nano and the Tata Nano, the question of what was to happen to those who had not yet collected their compensation cheques and the landless farm labourers who were not even being told that they were supposed to get any compensation at all, was not being discussed in the mainstream media at all. In alternative media and discussion circles, people were speaking about the futility of giving a one-time large compensation to people who are not accustomed to handling large amounts of money as they tend to burn it up instead of investing it properly. Moreover, the compensation being offered by the government was so meagre that the farmers of Singur were saying that the money would run out in a few years whereas they could make a living (however modest that may be, it was sufficient) off the land for ever. The TMC siege, propelled the Singur issue to the front page of every newspaper and prime slot on every TV channel in West Bengal. More money was in the offing in the form of compensation that the government was forced to agree upon after the meeting mediated by the governor. The exit of the Tatas have however, complicated the compensation for permanent surrender of the land. It will be naïve to think that no industry will ever come up in West Bengal again any time soon as industries come up wherever more subsidies are offered. Had the people of Nandigram not defended their land in a martial manner, there would not have been large-scale bloodbaths to outrage the public at large and another industrial unit would have come up in Nandigram. It is because the people of Nandigram defended their land and expressed their opinion in a more violent manner, did there ensue the process which led to most people' strong opposition to the project, though the chief minister disapprovingly admonishes the people there for having lost the chance to develop themselves and which now the people of Nayachar, he claims, have the golden chance to do. It is this same golden chance which a large section of the media thinks Singur had and which it has lost. It is also quite convenient to tag people opposing the Tata Nano plant as belonging to the TMC camp. For opinion, in the present political milieu, is usually categorised in neat political binaries. By clubbing together all opinion against the Tata Nano plant at all its stages (inception in 2006 or even after it withdrew in 2008) in the TMC camp, one can conveniently label such opinion as being associated with the TMC's political actions such as the fracas in the state Assembly in 2006 and term it as anti-State and unproductive or even destructive. Most local farmers in Singur are part of the SKJRC and thus also of the TMC because that is the only channel they have for expressing political opinion but they are not naïve enough to prioritise the TMC's concern (political mileage for one) over their own. The fact that they still are part of the TMC-led SKJRC gives some validity to the agency of the TMC-led SKJRC as representative of the voices of the local farming population dependent on the land. It is because of the existing political setup in West Bengal now that people rarely have a loud voice outside the binary of the CPI(M) and the TMC. Voices outside this binary do exist but are feeble. Many feel that the Tatas are the big losers in this battle between the CPI(M) and the TMC. The Tatas are seen as a cleaner group compared to the Ambanis. Maybe it says more about the Ambanis than about anyone else for the Tatas have had a recent history of not paying any heed to the voices of the people which it publicly claims it is trying to improve the lives of. The Dhamra port in Orissa has been strongly opposed for several months by Greenpeace activists who warn of the environmental hazards that it will cause but it is still planned to be built. The Tata Steel SEZs in Kalinganagar and Gopalpur in Orissa have also been fiercely opposed by the local residents but they continue to be constructed despite Ratan Tata's publicly proclaimed desire to improve lives of local communities. It is now that larger questions of development and governance, of whether predatory industrialisation through the SEZ model and removing subsidies from agriculture and converting agricultural land to industrial land is sustainable or whether such actions will lead to a food crisis in India need to be discussed. Questions about whether the country needs more cars and more flyovers to make space for the greater number of cars or a limit on the maximum number of cars in every city need to be put into place; and whether the Land Acquisition Act and its *carte blanche* to the government to acquire land for 'public purpose' (which now the Court has ruled can also mean earning money for the country) needs to be modified so that the landowner can choose to surrender or not surrender the land owned. There is no point in saying that no plan of development is ever all-encompassing and fair to all sections of the society, and the local residents of Singur must take a compensation amount and leave their homesteads as part of the 'necessary cost' of development of the State. These are issues that need to be discussed and a consensus reached among all very fast so that the local farmers of Singur who were dependent on the land are not left to die out. If the land is to be returned and an adequate compensation paid for all the days of lost work and for the healing time that the land will require to regain fertility (as a lot of the local farmers are demanding), then it must be done soon. Dibyajyoti Ghosh can be contacted at dibyajyotighoshATyahooDOTcoDOTin ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ reader-list mailing list reader-list at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list End of reader-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 226 ******************************************** From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 20:28:12 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:58:12 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Bangladesh Election Blogging Message-ID: As the delayed-by-two-years elections (under a soft-military caretaker government experiment) are finally approaching in Bangladesh (December 29th), we are organizing a lot of groundwork around protecting voter rights, especially religious and ethnic minorities. But of course rights of every voter is actually vulnerable. Our group Drishtipat, and allies will be blogging here. I will try to post updates when I can, but please check this URL when you can for new posts. http://unheardvoice.net/blog Analyzing Election Data, Part I and II http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/07/ndi-data-1/ http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/07/ndi-data-2/ Generations, elections & Case for defeat http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/07/generations-election-and-the-case-for-a-defeat/ 6th December http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/06/6th-december/ The 23 Percent, Part I and II http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/04/the-twenty-three-percent-part-i/ http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/06/the-twenty-three-percent-part-2/ The Next President http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/03/the-next-president/ Shahid Minar, Balaka Statue http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/05/shahid-minar-balaka/ High Court on CHT Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/02/cht-missing-pahari-vote/ From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 20:30:46 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] few performance images from J&K Art show Message-ID: <47e122a70812070700i409011deueb35a9932b6ce75e@mail.gmail.com> Na ches be tati, na tati ( I am neither there, nor here ) Opening Performance: Aprana Gallery 6th Dec. 2008 It was traditional shringar ( femininely decorated ) of my left foot that exhibited itself from a small window of a 50x22x22 inches steel box, placed upside down on the floor amidst other art works. A dead thorny twig stuck underneath my left foot. I remained inside the box during the entire opening of the group show from J&K. Dr. Kapila Vatsayayan, our chief Guest began her speck from this box: "I am here because….". Some amongst the audience actually removed the thorn, and I kept on replacing it with another thorn from inside the box. I share, some images about what was happening out side the box. Much more must have happened while I was inside the box, but all have few images, hope you like them. Just click, click http://indersalim.livejournal.com to see couple of them. With love and regards Inder salim -- From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 20:42:37 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:12:37 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] WSJ on India's Dangerous Divide Message-ID: DECEMBER 6, 2008 India's Dangerous Divide Wall Street Journal India's Muslims are prominent in Bollywood but still struggle with their identity. In the wake of the Mumbai attacks, tensions have mounted and loyalties have been tested. Ramachandra Guha on the path forward for India and its Muslim minority. In October 1947, a bare six weeks after India and Pakistan achieved their independence from British rule, the Indian Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, wrote a remarkable letter to the Chief Ministers of the different provinces. Here Nehru pointed out that despite the creation of Pakistan as a Muslim homeland, there remained, within India, "a Muslim minority who are so large in numbers that they cannot, even if they want, go anywhere else. That is a basic fact about which there can be no argument. Whatever the provocation from Pakistan and whatever the indignities and horrors inflicted on non-Muslims there, we have got to deal with this minority in a civilized manner. We must give them security and the rights of citizens in a democratic State." In the wake of the recent incidents in Mumbai, these words make salutary reading. It seems quite certain that the terrorists who attacked the financial capital were trained in Pakistan. The outrages have sparked a wave of indignation among the middle class. Demonstrations have been held in the major cities, calling for revenge, in particular for strikes against training camps in Pakistan. The models held up here are Israel and the United States; if they can "take out" individual terrorists and invade whole countries, ask some Indians, why not we? Other commentators have called for a more measured response. They note that the civilian government in Islamabad is not in control of the army, the army not in control of the notorious Inter Services Intelligence agency, the ISI not in control of the extremists it has funded. They point out that Pakistan has itself been a victim of massive terror attacks. India, they say, should make its disapproval manifest in other ways, such as canceling sporting tours and recalling diplomats. At the same time, the United States should be asked to demand of Pakistan, its erratically reliable ally, that it act more decisively against the terrorists who operate from its soil. One short-term consequence of the terror in Mumbai is a sharpening of hostility between India and Pakistan. And, as is always the case when relations between these two countries deteriorate, right-wing Hindus have begun to scapegoat those Muslims who live in India. They have begun to speculate as to whether the attackers were aided by their Indian co-religionists, and to demand oaths of loyalty from Muslim clerics and political leaders. There are 150 million Muslims in India. They have gained particular prominence in one area: Bollywood. Several top directors and composers are Muslim, as well as some of India's biggest movie stars. One, Aamir Khan, was a star and producer in "Lagaan," a song-and-dance epic about a game of cricket that was nominated for an Academy Award in 2002. But Muslims are massively underrepresented in the professions -- few of India's top lawyers, judges, doctors and professors are Muslim. Many Indian Muslims are poor, and a few are angry. Pakistan was carved out of the eastern and western portions of British India. To this new nation flocked Muslims from the Indian heartland. Leading the migration were the lawyers, teachers and entrepreneurs who hoped that in a state reserved for people of their faith, they would be free of competition from the more populous (and better educated) Hindus. Pakistan was created to give a sense of security to the Muslims of the sub-continent. In fact, it only made them more insecure. Nehru's letter of October 1947 was written in response to a surge of Hindu militancy, which called for retribution against the millions of Muslims who stayed behind in India. Three months later, Mahatma Gandhi, who was both Father of the Indian Nation as well as Nehru's mentor, was shot dead by a Hindu fanatic. That act shamed the religious right, who retreated into the shadows. There they stayed until the 1970s, when, through a combination of factors elaborated upon below, they came to occupy center-stage in Indian politics. If the first tragedy of the Indian Muslim was Partition, the second has been the patronage by India's most influential political party, the Congress, of Muslims who are religious and reactionary rather than liberal and secular. Nehru himself was careful to keep his distance from sectarian leaders whether Hindu or Muslim. However, under the leadership of his daughter, Indira Gandhi, the Congress party came to favor the conservative sections of the Muslim community. Before elections, Congress bosses asked heads of mosques to issue fatwas to their flock to vote for the party; after elections, the party increased government grants to religious schools and colleges. In a defining case in 1985, the Supreme Court called for the enactment of a common civil code, which would abolish polygamy and give all women equal rights regardless of faith -- the right to their husband's or father's property, for example, or the right to proper alimony once divorced. The prime minister at the time was Rajiv Gandhi. Acting on the advice of the Muslim clergy, he used his party's majority in Parliament to nullify the court's verdict. After Rajiv's widow, Sonia Gandhi, became Congress president in 1998, the party has continued to fund Muslim religious institutions rather than encourage them to engage with the modern world. Partition and Congress patronage between them dealt a body blow to Muslim liberalism. The first deprived the community of a professional vanguard; the second consolidated the claims to leadership of priests and theologians. In an essay published in the late 1960s, the Marathi writer Hamid Dalwai (a resident of Mumbai) wrote of his community that "the Muslims today are culturally backward." To be brought "on a level with the Hindus," argued Dalwai, the Muslims needed an "avant garde liberal elite to lead them." Otherwise, the consequences were dire for both communities. For "unless a Muslim liberal intellectual class emerges, Indian Muslims will continue to cling to obscurantist medievalism, communalism, and will eventually perish both socially and culturally. A worse possibility is that of Hindu revivalism destroying even Hindu liberalism, for the latter can succeed only with the support of Muslim liberals who would modernize Muslims and try to impress upon these secular democratic ideals." The possibility that Dalwai feared has come to pass. From the 1980s, the dominance of the Congress party has been challenged by the Bharatiya Janata Party. The BJP seeks to make India a "Hindu" nation, by basing the nation's political culture on the religious traditions (and prejudices) of the dominant community. Charging the Congress with "minority appeasement," with corruption and with dynastic rule, the BJP came to power in many states, and eventually in New Delhi. However, its commitment to the secular ideals of the Indian Constitution is somewhat uncertain. For the party's members and fellow travelers, only Indians of the Hindu faith are to be considered full or first-class citizens. Of the others, the Parsis are to be tolerated, the Christians distrusted, and the Muslims detested. One form this detestation takes is verbal -- the circulation of innuendos based on lies and half-truths (as in the claim that Muslims outbreed Hindus and will soon outnumber them). Another form is physical -- thus, the hand of the BJP lies behind some of the worst communal riots in independent India, for example Bhagalpur in 1989, Mumbai in 1992, and Gujarat in 2002; in all cases, an overwhelming majority of the victims were Muslims. The rise of the BJP owes something to the failures of the Congress, and something also to the example of Pakistan. As that society has come increasingly under the influence of Islamic fundamentalists, there is a more ready audience, within India, for the rants and raves of Hindu extremists. Likewise, the expulsion, by jihadis trained in Pakistan, of some 200,000 Hindus from the valley of Kashmir in a single year -- 1989-1990 -- has been used to justify attacks on Muslims in other parts of India. But to explain is not to excuse -- for the BJP has stoked feelings and passions that should have no place in a civilized society. In its activities BJP is helped by a series of allied groups. Known also by their abbreviations -- RSS, VHP, etc. -- these were in the forefront of the religious violence of the 1980s and beyond. Roaming the streets of small- (and big-) town India, they addressed their Muslim prey with the slogan "Pakistan or Kabristan!" (Flee to Pakistan, or we will send you straight to your graves). Meanwhile, their ideologues in the press -- some with degrees from the best British universities -- make the argument that Muslims are inherently violent, or unpatriotic, or both. In fact, the ordinary Muslim is much like any other ordinary Indian -- honest, hard-working and just about scraping a living. A day after I heard a BJP leader denounce the Congress for making the Muslims into a "pampered and privileged minority," I found myself making a turn into the busiest road in my home town, Bangalore. Just ahead of me was a Muslim gentleman, who was attempting to do likewise. Except that he was making the turn not behind the wheel of a powerful Korean-made car but with a hand-cart on which were piled some bananas. That the fruit seller was Muslim was made clear by his headgear, a white cap with perforations. He was an elderly man, about 60, short and slightly-built. The turn was made hard by his age and infirmity, and harder by the fact that the road sloped steeply downward, and by the further fact that making the turn with him were very many motor vehicles. Had he gone too slow he would have been bunched in against the cars; had he gone too fast he might have lost control altogether. Placed right behind the fruit seller, I saw him visibly relax his shoulders as the turn was successfully made, with cart and bananas both intact. One should not read too much into a single image, but it does seem to be that that perilous turn was symptomatic of an entire life -- a life lived at the edge of subsistence, a life taken one day at a time and from one turn to the next. In this respect the fruit seller was quite representative of Indian Muslims in general. Far from being pampered or privileged, most Muslims are poor farmers, laborers, artisans and traders. The failure to punish the perpetrators of successive pogroms has thrown some young men into the arms of fundamentalist groups. But the number is not, as yet, very large. And it is counterbalanced by other trends, for instance, the growing hunger for modern education among the youth. The desire to learn English is ubiquitous, as is the fascination for computers. Even in the disgruntled valley of Kashmir, a press survey found that the iconic founder of India's most respected software company, Infosys Technologies, a Hindu named N. R. Narayana Murthy, was a greater hero among Muslim students than the founder of Al Qaeda. Since the reasons for the poverty (and the anger) are so complex, a successful compact between Indian Muslims and modernity will require patient and many-sided work. It would help if the Pakistan center was to reassert itself against the extremism it has itself, in past times, encouraged. It would help some more, if, pace Hamid Dalwai, there was a more forthright assertion of Muslim liberalism within India. But perhaps the greatest burden falls on India's major political parties. The Congress must actively promote the modernization of Muslim society. And the BJP must recognize, in word and in deed, that the 150 million Muslims in India have to be dealt with in a civilized manner, and given the security and the rights due them as equal citizens in a democratic and non-denominational State. Writing in 1957, the historian Wilfred Cantwell Smith pointed out that Indian Muslims were unique in that they shared their citizenship "with an immense number of people. They constitute the only sizable body of Muslims in the world of which this is, or ever has been true." True no longer, for in many countries of Western Europe and even in the United States, the Muslims are now a sizeable but not dominant component of the national population. This makes this particular case even more special. For if, notwithstanding the poisonous residues of history and the competitive chauvinisms of politicians, Indians of different faiths were to live in peace, dignity and (even a moderate) prosperity, they might set an example for the world. Ramachandra Guha is the author of 'India After Gandhi: The History of the World's Largest Democracy.' He lives in Bangalore. From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 21:38:02 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:38:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: policy shifts not war by Raza Rumi Message-ID: <47e122a70812070808m44dae253ue702e2279c434e8d@mail.gmail.com> Policy shifts not war Thursday, December 04, 2008 Raza Rumi The dastardly attacks in Mumbai have irritated the old wounds and replayed the familiar, jingoistic tunes across the Indo-Pak borders. The Pakistanis, clamouring for friendship with their larger and problematic neighbour, have condemned these attacks in no uncertain terms. Who could be a worse victim of terrorism than Pakistan in these extraordinary times? Yet, the Indian media and sections of its establishment are quick to involve 'Pakistan' as the key perpetrator of the terror regime. This has obviously angered some and allowed a few Cold-War practitioners to call for self-defence and fighting with India till the last. The truth is that much of Pakistan does not want war. Hopefully, the Indian citizens are also not looking at war as a solution, or so it seems. It is almost a cliché to state that war is not a solution to the current imbroglio despite the hysterical calls by the Hindu right to 'neutralise' Pakistan. The saner elements in India have already pointed to the implicit and deep-seated issues of misgovernance, short-termism and the mess of Partition that were neither carefully deliberated nor rectified during all these decades. The non-state actors in both India and Pakistan have gained ascendancy due to the power distance of the Raj induced steel-frame structures of governance. If there are dozens of districts in India that operate beyond the writ of the formal state, there are areas in Pakistan that are not just outside the scope of the formal state but in a state of rebellion due to the war on terror. Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, an ignored persona in Pakistan, termed the partition of India as a partition of Indian Muslims. Whether we like it or not, this tragedy has happened in actual terms, leaving scars and wounds that will take years to heal. As if the 1947 bloodshed was not enough, the 1971 war of liberation fought by the Bengalis against the Pakistani state further divided the mass of Muslims into three distinct categories under tottering, imagined nation states. Kashmiris are up in arms once again in India – this time Pakistan cannot be blamed for the excesses of the Indian state noted by the international groups and the bold sections of Indian intelligentsia. The inimitable Arundhati Roy has already called for India's 'azadi' from Kashmir. The rise of the Hindu dominance movements allegedly to correct the wrongs of one thousand years of misdoings by the Muslims; and the concurrent branding of Muslims as terrorists have further fuelled the alienation of Indian Muslims. This is not just a Pakistani position but a fact recognized by many Indian thinkers themselves. In Pakistan, years of misguided policies using Jihad as a policy instrument have also brutalized the society with a dogmatic interpretation of the lofty Islamic notions of struggle, change and self-improvement. Thus we have bigoted and political jihad factories that appear to be drifting away from the central hold and assuming a life of their own. So we have a self-fulfilling cycle of violence, hate and war-mongering. Acts of violence in India are blamed on Pakistan, and groups of Indian Muslims thereby adding to further profiling of a beleaguered community that is huge in numbers despite being a minority. Pakistan plays up this trend and attracts the criticism of the Indian extremists for sponsoring terror by misleading the minority youth. And, any insurgency in Pakistan is immediately traced to Indian intervention, real or fabricated. The wound festers and bleeds unabated. Things have come to such a pass that we have jihadist state officials, especially a few retired ones who use war as a road to Pakistani (read Islamic) glory, TV presenters who predict that India will be ruled by Muslims once again and madressahs that preach stuff that can put most of us to shame. On the Indian side, the involvement of serving and retired army officers in communal, barbaric violence is also a matter of public record. In addition, you have serving chief ministers and leaders of political parties who preach hatred and talk of 'fixing' the Muslims within India and beyond through regional and global coalitions that would make Gandhi and Nehru turn in their graves. Religion and communalism sell where economic opportunity is short supply and where the modes of governance reinforce exploitation and alienation. This is the crux of the problem that is faced by India and Pakistan and to some extent by Bangladesh as well where abuse of religious sentiment has gained currency much to the horror of the secular Bengalis. Therefore, the need of the hour is for India and Pakistan to acknowledge that they have to cooperate and address the menace of poverty, social and cultural exclusion and rethink their eagerness to espouse the neo-liberal mantra of growth at any cost and identifying consumerism with general prosperity. This requires fundamental policy shifts within these states. Calls for war and revenge are mere ruses to avoid taking the hard route to reform and social transformation. The entrenched civil and military bureaucracies would need to take a backseat in the policy-setting process. Pakistan's current and former presidents have presented India with some unprecedented proposals that include shift from the traditional positions of Kashmir, trade-facilitation and responsible agreements on the use of nuclear warheads, among others. The recent Mumbai attacks have occurred right after President Zardari articulated bold and fearless proposals on a long-lasting peace. This is why the Indian establishment needs to review its current spell of belligerence aimed at the domestic, pre-election milieu and understand that this is what the miscreants are aiming for: a breach and reversal of what was optimistically named as an irreversible peace process. The Pakistani state needs to ensure that it provides full cooperation in future investigations to allay the fears of Indian public. This is how the cycle of violence, hostility and war-mongering will start to break. Any kind of war – surgical, targeted, small-scale or large scale – is not the answer. The sub-continental states have to reinvent themselves after six decades of independence and re-examine how the colonial legacies of social and economic exclusion, the great games and communalism have to be done away with. If we as a region fail to act, history shall be brutally candid about our collective illusions, suicidal streaks and the shared contempt for history. The writer blogs at razarumi.com and edits two e-zines: Pak Tea House and Lahore Nama. Email: razarumi at gmail.com -- From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 11:26:45 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:56:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] International Week of Justice Festival. Nazir Josh, Kashmir Solo Performance... In-Reply-To: <35f96d470812062126s2c97d820t5d22e29faa257b58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <952977.67325.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> 8th ,9th 10th from 9 am to 9 pm at Alliance Fransaise, India Islamic Cultural Centre and WWF Gallery Photo Exhibition UPCOMING HIGHLIGHTS: VOICES OF DIGNITY -ART AS WITNESS- Images from all over South Asia. 10 am to 7 pm every day. WWF Gallery 9th Dec 08 5:00 pm-7:30 pm Talk Show: "No Hiding Place for Torture" Speakers: Samina Peerzada, Artist Pakistan Ghazi Hussein, Writer, Palestine Scotland Prassana Vithange, Filmmaker, Sri Lanka Malalai Joya, Parliamentarian, Afghanistan Fali Nariman, Senior Advocate India 10th Closing Ceremony 4:00 pm Closing Film "The Class" Laurent Cantet/France/2008/feature Nazir Josh, Kashmir, Solo Performance Musical Concert Musafir --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Anivar Aravind wrote: > From: Anivar Aravind > Subject: [Reader-list] DCOS Agreement on Procurement in Support of Interoperability and Open Standards emerges at 3rd IGF, Hyderabad > To: "Principal Support List of FSF-India" , fsfs-org at fsfs.in, "Greenyouth" , "fourth-estate-critique at googlegroups.com" , "Reader List" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 10:56 AM > 6 December 2008 > > At the close of the final day of the 3rd Internet > Governance Forum in > Hyderabad, India, the Dynamic Coalition on Open Standards > (DCOS) > released an agreement entitled the "Dynamic Coalition > on Open > Standards (DCOS) Agreement on Procurement in Support of > Interoperability and Open Standards." > > Under the procurement agreement, governments, publicly > funded and > non-profit institutions agree to promote interoperability > and > accessibility through the use of open standards. > > > Anivar > --------- > Dynamic Coalition on Open Standards (DCOS) Agreement on > Procurement in > Support of Interoperability and Open Standards > > 3rd Internet Governance Forum (IGF) > Hyderabad, India > 6 December 2008 > > Preamble > The Contracting Parties, > > *Recalling* the World Summit on the Information Society > (WSIS) > Declaration of Principles which states that > "[i]nternational standards > aim to create an environment where consumers can access > services > worldwide regardless of underlying technology," > > *Recognizing* that standards are increasingly global > concerns, > involving goods and services that move in international > trade across borders, > > *Aware* that current competition and legal remedies may not > be enough > to solve the inherent tensions that routinely arise in the > realm of > patents and standards, > > *Desirous* of encouraging procurement policies that require > evaluation > of multiple, competing products based on open ICT standards > in order > to ensure a level playing field for vendors, governments > and > consumers, > > *Cognizant* of the need for procurement policies for > software programs > that are predicated upon an open standard, > > Open Standards > ============= > > Given the multiplicity of interpretations of the term open > standards, > for the purpose of this document we endorse as an > acceptable > definition the position contained in the European > Union's draft > European Interoperability Framework: > > 1) The open standard is adopted and will be maintained by a > not-for-profit organisation, and its ongoing development > occurs on the > basis of an open decision-making procedure available to all > interested > parties (consensus or majority decision etc.). > 2) The open standard has been published and the standard > specification > document is available either freely or at a nominal charge. > It must be > permissible to all to copy, distribute and use it for no > fee or at a > nominal fee. > 3) The intellectual property - i.e. patents possibly > present - of > (parts of) the open standard is made irrevocably available > on a > royalty free basis. > 4) There are no constraints on the re-use of the standard. > > (IDABC EIF v2 draft > (http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7728)) > > As noted in the European Interoperability Framework cited > above, open > standards or technical specifications must allow all > interested > parties to implement the standards and to compete on > quality and > price. The goal is to have a competitive and innovative > industry, not > to protect market shares by raising obstacles to newcomers. > Thus, open > standards or technical specifications must be possible to > implement in > software distributed under the most commonly used open > source > licences, with no limitations arising from patents > associated with the > standard in question. > > In addition to the above requirements, it is recommended > that there > should be multiple independent implementations of the > standard. > > *Governments, publicly funded and non-profit institutions* > agree to > implement the following policies. > > Governments, publicly funded and non-profit institutions > Hereby agree > to the following measures in order to promote > interoperability and > accessibility through the use of open standards. > > 1. To create a policy statement on interoperability and > open > standards, to be available to employees and the public. > > 2. By 2010, procurement of all software should be vendor > neutral and > implement open standards > > 3. By 2010, tender specifications for hardware (including > peripherals > and mobile devices) should require that manufacturers > provide the > driver and interface information necessary to work with a > reasonable > range of proprietary and free operating system platforms. > > 4. By 2010, all public facing web pages should conform to > W3C > standards for structure, presentation and accessibility. > > 5. By 2010, tenders for the supply of web based services > (for example, > online reservations) must specify the requirements of point > 4. > > 6. By 2010, agencies should implement policies regarding > the storage > and archiving of government data and records to ensure that > data is > stored in open data and document formats. > > Signed by the following parties: > -------------------------------------------- > > Aslam Raffee, Government IT Officers' Council, OSS > Working > Group,Republic of South Africa > > Association for Progressive Communications (APC) > > Bob Jolliffe, Freedom To Innovate, South Africa > > Centre for Internet and Society, India > > Eddan Katz, Electronic Frontier Foundation > > Hamid Rabiee, Sharif University of Technology, Iran > > Knowledge Ecology International > > Moving Republic, India > > Shuttleworth Foundation, South Africa > > Swathanthra Malayalam Computing, India > > > Endorsed by the following parties: > ------------------------------------------------- > Bangladesh Friendship Education Society, Bangladesh > > Indian Social Action Forum (INSAF), India > > Foundation for Media Alternatives, Philippines > > OpenForum Europe > > -- > Anivar Aravind > http://anivar.movingrepublic.org > 7/1, 1st Floor, 1st Cross , Ankappa block > J.C Nagar, Bangalore -560006 > Ph +91 9449009908 / +91 80 23435606 > > > -- > Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home > grown Free > Software industry because it creates the basis for future > jobs. > Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at > McDonalds. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pkray11 at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 18:50:17 2008 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:50:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Discussion on Mumbai Attack Message-ID: <98f331e00812080520v5cc73203j6632e36628721bb9@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I am forwarding an invite toyou all. Kindly tell others too. Prakash * ANVESHAN and STUDENTS' FEDERATION OF INDIA* invite you to A *PUBLIC DISCUSSION* * MUMBAI TERROR AFTERMATH: THE WAY FORWARD* Wednesday, 10th December 2008 *4.00 p.m.* *Muktadhara Auditorium,* *18-19 Bhai Veer Singh Marg (Near Gole Market)* Chair Aijaz Ahmad Literary Theorist and Political Commentator Speakers Siddharth Varadarajan Deputy Editor, The Hindu Jayati Ghosh Professor of Economics, JNU Md. Salim Deputy Leader of CPI (M), Lok Sabha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 7 09:06:14 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:36:14 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Notes from a contested history of Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) in India:1999-2007 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812061936s7e1f98b4n69d5f64c0a99457a@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, The essay below presents the history of the emergence of National identity card in India from the perspective of bureaucratic and political players. I have documented the role played by key players that led to sustained thinking towards the idea of a national identity card. Regards Taha Notes from a contested history of National Identity Card in India:1999-2007 /People first have to develop confidence in written document before it could supplant familiar oral and written records. / * Multi-Purpose National Identity Card* *_ _* * * *1. Origins: The Kargil War* * * In the sweltering heat of May 1999, as the plane carrying The Chief of Army Staff General Ved Prakash Malik crossed the Indian territorial skies to far away Poland, Malik could have hardly imagined that the lines of actual control on the ground beneath his feet were changing. >From the 26th day of May till the 26th day of month of July 1999, India and Pakistan were engaged in a Low Intensity Conflict over the possession of barren, but strategically important mountain peaks of Kargil. According to some calculations the cost of Kargil 'war' was around 10,000 crore rupees[i] 1 [around Two Billion US Dollars] in addition to the incalculable loss of Five hundred and Twenty Seven lives[ii] 2. The conflict generated a huge debate in the media about the ideas of border, fencing, intrusion, defense preparedness, illegal immigration and intelligence apparatus. Towards the end of July after the war was officially over, the Government came under a lot of flak about its conduct and the foggy nature of events leading up to the war. *2. Kargil Review Committee [KRC]* * * On 24th July 1999, 'At a tea party hosted for journalists who covered the Kargil Conflict'[iii] 3, the Government 'quickly announced the setting up of a review committee'[iv] 4, the then Minister of Information Pramod Mahajan, said, "When we say events leading to, it may be intelligence, administrative, political failures. We are not binding the Committee with one or two aspects"[v] 5. Five days later on 29th July 1999, through an order No. 361/6/4/99-TS[vi] 6 the Government of India formally instituted the Kargil Review committee. The Committee was given a mandate to investigate two prominent aspects of the war. Firstly, to inspect the timeline of events leading up to the Pakistani aggression in the Kargil District of Ladakh in Jammu & Kashmir and secondly, to recommend necessary measures to, 'safeguard national security against such armed intrusions'[vii] 7 . >From 29th July 1999, the date of its constitution, the Kargil Review Committee started working at 3rd Floor of Sardar Patel Bhavan at Parliament Street, in New Delhi[viii] 8. The Committee was to submit its report by the 31st October 1999[ix] 9 . The committee also invited members of public who had 'reliable and authentic'[x] 10 information regarding the war. The National Security Service Council Secretariat was required to assist the committee, by a Government order[xi] 11. *3. Pre History of National Security Service Council* In the previous year, on 19th March 1998, Atal Bihari Vajpayee led center right coalition Government called the National Democratic Alliance [NDA] came to power. On 18th March 1998, a day before Vajpayee was sworn in as the Prime Minister of India, his party, the Bhartiya Janta Party, the dominant member of the NDA, released a document called the National Agenda for Governance[xii] 12. Section 26 of the document titled National Security promised to establish a 'National Security Council to analyze the military, economic and political threats to the nation'[xiii] 13. The Council was to undertake a 'Strategic Defense Review'[xiv] 14>. This was purported to 'ensure the security, territorial integrity and unity of India'[xv] 15>. Next month, on 10th of April 1998, Prime Minister Vajpayee sanctioned an order to constitute a 'Task Force'[xvi] 16> to review security related issues. The 'Task Force' was chaired by K.C Pant[xvii] 17>, Deputy Chair person Planning Commission, other members were Foreign Minister, Jaswant Singh[xviii] 18> and Air Commodore (retd) Jasjit Singh[xix] 19>, the then head of a highly influential, Defense Ministry funded[xx] 20>, strategic affairs think tank called the Institute of Defense Studies and Analyses (IDSA). Working on the recommendations of the 'Task Force', Government constituted a National Security Council on 18th November, 1998[xxi] 21>. *4. The National Security Service Council * [NSSC] The National Security Service Council was a three tier set up. Prime Minister was to the Chair, followed by Home Minister, Defense Minister, External Affairs Minister, Finance Minister and Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission[xxii] 22>. Going by the logic of 'Task Force's' recommendations it seemed as if members were laying out institutional framework to invite themselves to higher groups of decision making. As, by virtue of being the External Affairs minister and Deputy Chairperson Planning Commission, two of the three members of the 'Task Force', Jaswant Singh and K C Pant became members of National Security Council. Principal Secretary to Prime Minister was to act as the National Security Advisor. The second tier would comprise of three more elements, they were, the National Security Council Secretariat [NSCS] by the Joint Intelligence Committee, Strategic Policy Group and other invitees. The Strategic Planning Group was to consist of Cabinet Secretary, the three Service Chiefs, Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary, Defense Secretary, Secretary (Defense Production), Finance Secretary, Secretary (Revenue), RBI Governor, Director (IB), Secretary (R) Cabinet Secretariat, Secretary (DAE), SA to RM, Secretary (Space) and Chairman (JIC). One of the key tasks of the Strategic Policy Group was take a strategic defense review. National Security Advisory Board [NSCAB] was to form the third tier. The Board was to consist of 'persons of eminence'[xxiii] 23> from outside the Government covering expertise in external security, strategic analysis, foreign affairs, defense, the Armed Forces, internal security, Science & Technology, and economics. When the Kargil Review Committee formed its members were partially sourced from the National Security Service council. *5. Members of Kargil Review Committee* * * Constituted on 29th July 1999 the four member committee, was also called the Subrahmanyam Committee, as it was chaired by K Subrahmanyam. Other three members were, B.G Verghese, Satish Chandra and K.K. Hazari K Subrahmanyam, a former director of IDSA[xxiv] 24>, [which was then headed by Air Commodore (retd) Jasjit Singh] and B.G Verghese, a senior journalist both were members of National Security Council Advisory Board [NSCAB]. K Subrahmanyam, was also the convener of NSCAB. Earlier, on 3rd May 1999, Satish Chandra, a 1965 batch IFS officer, was made Chairman of Joint Intelligence Committee, Cabinet Secretariat as Secretary of the National Security Council Secretariat [NSCS][xxv] 25>. While Lieutenant General (Retd.) K.K. Hazari, was a former Vice Chief of Army Staff who retired from service in 1986, was the only person in the Committee who wasn't a member of any other official setup[xxvi] 26>. The committee submitted a 228 page report[xxvii] 27> to the Prime Minister on 7th January, 2000[xxviii] 28>. The prologue of the report was eight pages long, followed by, " 'history' 18 pages, security implications of trends in India's defence expenditure" (Chapter 9) covers 14, "Nuclear backdrop" (Chapter 10) has 29 and "The public dimension" (Chapter 11) six"[xxix] 29>. That was perhaps the only thing known about the report. News reports on or about the content of Kargil Review Committee reports became hazy after 7th January 2000. A press note issued by the National Security Council Secretariat, just before the submission of report, said, 'Conscious of the fact that the disclosure of some of this information would not be in public interest for reasons of national security… the committee has itself excised the same from the report'[xxx] 30>. Subrahmanyam told a Times of India correspondent that day, 'We believe we have been able to establish /what/ went wrong. We did not undertake the exercise to find out /who/ went wrong'[xxxi] 31>. Others however respectfully disagree. A senior print journalist, who appeared before the Committee had this to say- 'The most significant finding that the Kargil Review Committee (KRC) appears to have made is that the office of the Prime Minister poses a threat to national security… not even the Prime Minister or his Cabinet colleagues are entitled to know the truth about Kargil'[xxxii] 32>, he adds that, 'Inconvenient reports by committees have frequently not been made public, but censorship-at-source is a wholly new phenomenon'[xxxiii] 33>. Till date baring perhaps the members of the KRC, no one really knows 'what went wrong'. The Government however accepted the 'excised' report. On February 24th 2000[xxxiv] 34> the then Defense Minister George Fernandes presented the report in the Lower House of Parliament, 'amidst din'[xxxv] 35>… just before it was adjourned for the day[xxxvi] 36>. A month and a half later, on 18th of April 2000, George Fernandes's deputy, Hiren Pathak [the then Minister of State for Defense], presented a Supplementary action taken report in the Upper House of Parliament[xxxvii] 37>. *6. Recommendations * An executive summary of the Kargil Review Committee report [which was drafted by K Subrahmanyam and BG Verghese[xxxviii] 38>] was made available to the members of Upper House of Parliament on 25th February, 2000. One of the key observations of the Committee was that 'Kargil type situation could perhaps have been avoided'[xxxix] 39>. And in order to repeat a Kargil type situation again the Committee urged setting up of a 'a comprehensive space and aerial based surveillance system'[xl] 40> Under a sub section titled Intelligence, the Committee observed that the Kargil episode highlighted, 'gross inadequacies in the nation's surveillance capability... Some countries have created a national surveillance command. Since the Indian system is still in the initial stages, decisions taken at this juncture will have long term implications...'[xli] 41>. It deliberated whether 'a two-stream approach - civil and military -… may not be a better alternative than depending on a single agency'[xlii] 42>. On Civil- Military Liaison the Committee felt that 'at various levels, from the ranking Command HQ to the operational formations on the ground. Division) Brigade or Battalion, is most necessary to smoothen relationships during times of emergency and stress, like war and proxy war… Relocating villages behind the Army's forward defense line in J&K can best be done through an initially limited experimental move'[xliii] 43>. For this it recommends 'steps [to] be taken to issue ID Cards to border villagers in certain vulnerable areas on a priority basis, pending its extension to other or all parts of the State'. The committee further urged that a policy like this 'would also be relevant in the North-East, Sikkim and part of West Bengal'. Right from the point of time when the Committee was set up till it presented its report, sections of the media and opposition parties were very critical about its very constitution and findings. At the time of inception the charge was, that since, 'committee is not governed by the Commission of Inquiry Act'[xliv] 44> it has 'no statutory powers'[xlv] 45>, 'it cannot summon senior government and intelligence officials, nor can it be given top secret documents'[xlvi] 46>. Most importantly, 'Subrahmanyam is a member of the National Security Council, he can hardly probe the premier agency in charge of national security'[xlvii] 47>. Later when the report was submitted the whole affair was read by various sections as 'a triumph for fiction over fact'[xlviii] 48>, 'an eye wash'[xlix] 49> and 'a clear white wash'[l] 50>. So much so that, Dr. Manmohan Singh, a Member of Parliament from Assam and the then leader of opposition at the Upper House, speaking on the issue of national security said, that, 'I do not believe that the Subrahmanyam Committee report is the last word on the subject'[li] 51> * * *7. Group of Ministers [GoM]* Going by what happened next, it seemed as if the Government also didn't think that Dr. Manmohan Singh's utterances were the final word on the Kargil Review Committee Report. By 17th April 2000, the then Prime Minster Vajpayee through a Government of India, Cabinet Secretariat, Rashtrapati Bhavan order No.141/2/1/2000-TS[lii] 52>, approved with 'immediate effect'[liii] 53> the formation of Group of Ministers [GoM] under the Chairmanship of Home Minister, LK Advani, other members Defense Minister, George Fernandes, the External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh, the Finance Minister Yashwant Sinha and Brijesh Mishra, who was besides being Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister was the National Security Advisor. The GoM was to submit its report in six months from the date of its constitution.[liv] 54> There was a persistent mutation and replication with respect to the membership in the formation of various groupings. As, for instance, the External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh, besides being in the GoM, had earlier been a member of the 'Task Force' which proposed the formation of a National Security Service Council, of which he was also a member. The National Security Service Council membership on the other hand was shared by the Home Minister, LK Advani, the Defense Minister, George Fernandes, the Finance Minister Yashwant Sinha and Brijesh Mishra who were part of GoM. Twenty three days after its formation, on May 10th 2000, the GoM created four 'Task Forces' to 'to examine the recommendations of the KRC in detail'[lv] 55>. The 'Task Forces' were to probe issues concerning, 'the intelligence apparatus, internal security, border management and management of defense'[lvi] 56>. By 22 May 2000, the GoM asked the 'Task Forces' 'to evaluate aspects of national security above and beyond the recommendations of the KRC'[lvii] 57>. Later, on 27th July 2000, the then Defense Minister George Fernandes while replying to a question, in the Lower House of the parliament about the follow up action on report of Subrahmanyam Committee, said that, 'in view of the sensitive nature of issues involved, it would not be in the national interest to divulge further details of actions being taken by the Government on these recommendations'[lviii] 58>. Of the recommendations that he said that Government had accepted, there was no mention of a National Identity card[lix] 59>. However he did mention that the 'Task forces' were given three months to submit the reports to the GoM[lx] 60>. *8. The Task Forces* The 'Task Force' on intelligence apparatus was chaired by Girish Chander Saxena, a 1950 batch IPS officer, was the then Governor of Jammu and Kashmir and former RAW chief[lxi] 61> followed by, M.K. Narayanan, the present National Security Advisor, former Intelligence Bureau Chief and a 1953 batch IPS officer. K. Raghunath, former Foreign Secretary,. P.P. Srivastav IAS, the then Home Affairs Special Secretary, B. Raman, the then RAW additional secretary, R. Narasimha was with the National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS)and Maj. Gen. (retired) Chandan .S. Nugyal[lxii] 62>. The Task for on Defense management was chaired by Arun Singh and assisted by a host of people with defense and civil administration background. Among them was, Narendra Singh Sisodia, who was then an Additional Secretary in the National Security Council Secretariat now heads the IDSA as Director[lxiii] 63>. For Internal Security, former bureaucrat N.N.Vohra was the Chair, before that he has served as the principal secretary to the Prime Minister [1997-1998], previously between 1985-94 he served as an Additional Defense Secretary Defense Production, and later as Secretary Home and Defense[lxiv] 64>Secretary. In 2003 Vohra was sent as the Government's special Interlocutor to Kashmir[lxv] 65>. Julio Riberio, an ex IPS oficer was the other member. Vohra and Riberio go a long way back together. Vohra was the Home Secretary of Punjab during Operation Bluestar while Riberio was the Director General of Police[1986-88]. Riberio later wrote a book called 'Bullet for Bullet' about his experiences in Punjab[lxvi] 66>. Riberio lives a retired life in Bombay[lxvii] 67> while Vohra has become a member of the executive council of IDSA[lxviii] 68>. Rajendra Shekhar, former chief of the Central Bureau of Investigation during the VP Singh regime was an IPS officer Rajasthan cadre. 1998 he also wrote a book called 'Not a License to Kill', where emphasis was more on 'prevention and detection'[lxix] 69>. In an interview to a magazine he rued about the fact that, 'those who control us, want us to control dissent more than the enforcement of the rule of law'. Lt-Gen (Retd) V. K. Nayyar, served as Governor of Manipur between 1993-1994[lxx] 70> and was Additional Director General Military Operations at Army Head Quarters in charge of Operation Bluestar 1984[lxxi] 71>. The other members were RC Jha, M. K. Narayanan, who also served on the 'Task force on Intelligence Apparatus' and M. L. Wadhawan.* * * * Former bureaucrat, Dr. Madhav Godbole and the Chair of Task Force on Border Management was Home Secretary, Union Government of India when Babri Masjid was demolished on 6th of December 1992[lxxii] 72>. Godbole was assisted by Lt.Gen (Retd) V K Sood, former Vice Chief of Army Staff [1993][lxxiii] 73>. Sood had once served under K K Hazari[lxxiv] 74> of the Subrahmanyam/Kargil Review Committee fame. M L Mehta, former Chief Secretary was a bureaucrat from Rajasthan Cadre[lxxv] 75> and junior in service to Rajendra Shekhar. T Ananthachari, former Director General Border security Force[lxxvi] 76>. Vice Admiral (Retd) AR Tandon was formerly Flag Officer commanding in Chief Western Command[lxxvii] 77> and Deputy Chief of Naval Staff. DVLN Ramakrishna Rao former Andhra Pradesh Inspector General of Police[lxxviii] 78>, and former DG Home Ministry. Last member of the group was Chinmoy Chakravarty. Exactly five months after the GoM had asked the 'Task force' to begin work, on late Friday night 22nd December 2000, television news channels started running flashes about a terrorist attack on the historic Red Fort[lxxix] 79>. A red alert was declared in the Capital. Within weeks the Delhi police launched a massive drive for 'Tenant Verification'[lxxx] 80>. This was for the first time that police was amassing personal data on all 'outsiders' to the Capital city. But this drive became yet another excuse for the police to extract money, so much so that on 17th April 2002, a question was raised in the Upper House of Parliament with respect to the harassment of land owners by the police[lxxxi] 81>. As of 24th October 2005 the Delhi High court had acquitted four people and sentenced seven others, of the total eleven arrested in the wake of the attack[lxxxii] 82>. It was in this background that by 5th January 2001, all the 'Task Forces' had submitted their reports[lxxxiii] 83> to the GoM. Eleven months later, on 22nd November 2001, in the Parliament House, when the 8th Session of the XIII Lok Sabha was in progress, it took an Unstarred Question No. 915, asked by Lok Sabha MP, Jayaben B. Thakkar, for the then Defense Minister George Fernandes to declare that, 'The GoM…presented their comprehensive Report titled `Reforming the National Security System` to the Prime Minister on February 26, 2001'[lxxxiv] 84> and that 'The recommendations made by the GoM were approved by the Government on 11th May, 2001'[lxxxv] 85>. Of the fifteen recommendations spelt out by the Defense Minister in the parliament that day, there was not a single mention of smart identity cards. On the other hand, a cursory glance at the questions asked in the parliament between 18th April and 12th December 2001 presents a different picture. For instance, there were questions about introducing a smart card system to ensure punctuality of Government employees[lxxxvi] 86>, smart card for Employee Provident fund[lxxxvii] 87>, and selling electricity through smart card[lxxxviii] 88> Pramod Mahajan, the then Minister of Information Technology, while replying to an Unstarred Question No. 3657, submitted jointly by Gowdar Mallikarjunappa, Gangasandra Siddappa Basavaraj, Iqbal Ahmed Saradgiy and S. Vivekananda Reddy, which was answered on 12th of December 2001, said that 'A Committee has been set-up to formulate common Standards for Multi Application Smart Cards'[lxxxix] 89>. Since it was not asked, it would be very difficult for us to know the reasons as to why this committee was set up, or who were there in this committee. *9. Attack on Parliament* * * Next day, on 13th of December 2001 the Parliament of India was attacked[xc] 90>. In a televised address shortly after the attacks, Prime Minister Vajpayee said, "This was not just an attack on the building, it was a warning to the entire nation," he said. "We accept the challenge."[xci] 91> Three days later on December 16th 2001 the Army launched Operation Parakaram. Around half a million troops were mobilized along the international border with Pakistan. The standoff lasted for eight months. Although nothing came out of it but by 2003 around Three Hundred and Seventy Five military and civilian personnel were killed in various stages of mine laying and De-mining operations.[xcii] 92> Of the four people arrested and charged with 'waging a war against the state'[xciii] 93>. The Supreme Court had acquitted two and confirmed death penalty for the other two[xciv] 94>. The sudden change in environment reflected in the parliament as well. As questions after 13th December specifically related to providing for identity documents were mostly about giving smart cards to Air India passengers[xcv] 95>, providing smart cards instead of paper identity cards to employees working with various agencies at the Air ports[xcvi] 96>, introducing a smart card based security system at the airports[xcvii] 97>, and introducing smart cards instead of ration cards for the Public Distribution System[xcviii] 98>. ** ** *10. **Change of Guard.* * ** * On 22nd May 2004, precisely four years to the day, after the GoM had asked the 'Task Force' to start working, there was a change of guard at the Center. Sonia Gandhi led United Progressive Alliance came to power and Manmohan Singh was sworn in as Prime Minister of India. Shivraj Vishwanath Patil became the Home Affairs Minister[xcix] 99>. * * *11. MNIC* According to a Department of Information and Technology document, on National e-Governance Plan, presented in a workshop with States and Union Territories, held on 11-12th March, 2005, at Hotel Samrat, in New Delhi- on 22nd July, 2004, Shivraj Vishwanath Patil, the present Home Minister, had given gave a go ahead to the Registrar General of India to start work on the pilot project concerning the Multipurpose National identity card[c] 100>. This particular insertion of the go ahead order by the Home Minister after the presentation by the RGI is quite interesting, as former Minister Of State In The Ministry Of Home Affairs, Swami Chinmayanand on 22nd July 2003, while answering a Lok Sabha Starred Question, titled Multipurpose Identity Cards asked by Dalpat Singh Paraste and Mohan Rawale had already stated that 'A Pilot Project on the Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) scheme* /has been initiated by the Government in April, 2003/* covering a few sub-districts in the selected districts of 13 States and Union Territories. The Project is expected to be completed within one year'[ci] 101> . Nevertheless, it seems, according to the Department of Information and Technology document mentioned above- the premise on which Home minister Shivraj Patil gave his approval was the Report submitted by the Group of Ministers [GoM] Titled `Reforming the National Security System`, of which L.K Advani, the Former Home Minister was a member. One of the key recommendations of the report was to introduce a national identity card. The case of Illegal immigration forms the basis of a renewed enforcement of the rule of enumerating 'citizens' and through a deductive logic it concludes with a new fact that National identity cards be issued. The rhetoric of this argument is perhaps most precise in Chapter 5, of the above mentioned GoM report, titled Border Management. This Chapter was in fact written as per the submissions on Border Management, by the Task Force headed by Madhave Godbole. The first paragraph sets up the premise-'India has 14,880 kms of land border running through 92 districts in 17 States and a coastline of 5,422 kms touching 12 States and Union Territories (UTs)'[cii] 102>. And 'barring Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Delhi and Haryana, all other States in the country have one or more international borders or a coastline'[ciii] 103>. Further, in Section 110, page 85, of the report, it is mentioned that- 'Illegal migration has assumed serious proportions. There should be compulsory registration of citizens and non-citizens living in India. This will facilitate preparation of a national register of citizens' All citizens should be given a *Multi-Purpose National Identity Card *(*MPNIC*) and non-citizens should be issued identity cards of a different color and design'[civ] 104>. The report does not explain what does category such as, 'citizen' or 'non citizen' exactly entail. Nor does it shed any light on, as to Why a national identity card for all 'citizens' would solve all the problem of 'illegal immigration'. When, primary documents, like ration card, that would form the very basis on which the 'identity' of present citizens would be eventually verified, are in fact 'not considered' as valid identity documents, by the Government at all. And moreover, other identification document like the Election Commission issued voter identity card, introduced in 1993 have yet not being available to all citizens. The above assertion stems from a careful perusal of a number of questions in the XIII and XIV Lok Sabha on the idea of identity. For instance, on as early as 11th May 2000, that was, a day after, GoM had created four 'Task Forces', the then Minister Of State In The Ministry Of Consumer Affairs And Public Distribution, V. Sreenivasa Prasad had stated in Parliament that 'The State Governments/UT Administrations have been directed to issue instructions to concerned authorities not to insist on production of ration card for …for identification purposes'[cv] 105>. By 9th March 2007, the present Minister of Law And Justice, H.R. Bhardwaj, while replying to a query posed by Jyotiraditya Madhavrao Scindia had responded, by stating that, 'The Election Commission has intimated that approximately 30% electors are yet to be issued voter identity cards'[cvi] 106>. According to him, one of the major factors that contribute to non issuance of voter identity card for the rural population is 'intercity and intra-city migration in major metropolitan towns'[cvii] 107>. While it is difficult to track urban population as 'the urbanites do not show any enthusiasm for obtaining EPICs as it involves spending their time to go to a Photo location for a document which anyway has relevance for them once in 5 years only'[cviii] 108>. *12. One Nation, One-Citizenship, One Card* * * The GoM report, 'Reforming the National Security System' is perhaps the most prescient indicator of a gradual shift in ways in which, ideas about personal identity are thought about by those who govern India. This shift is marked by a historical anxiety of the rulers to not only know about but also to have a documentary record of the ruled. Moreover, this shift is becoming increasingly characterized by a technologically driven desire to stabilize the idea of land and its people. Thus the Chapter on Internal Security, for instance[cix] 109>, talks about the notion of 'one border-one force'. The Multi-purpose National Identity card of course, underlines the idea of national membership through one identity, stabilized by one National Identification Number, something which has been historically contested by the dwellers of land, in a variety of ways. As the idea of Multipurpose National Identity Card is tested for its 'feasibility', it appears that the real test has only begun. *13. Dilemma of enumerating citizenship.* * * According to a Times of India, report, by, Dipak Mishra, datelined, 13th February, 2003[cx] 110>, the then chief minister of Bihar, Rabari Devi, refused to implement 'the first phase of MNIC project in the state'[cxi] 111>. The Bihar Government didn't consider illegal immigration as a 'major problem' as, 'only nine Bangladeshis have been detected… so far'[cxii] 112>. Almost a year and a half year later, Surojit Mahalonbis, writing for Times of India on 23 July 2004 ruminated that 'It may not be humanly possible that the Registrar General of India (RGI) will end up completing the MNIC cards countrywide mistake-free'[cxiii] 113>. In an another news article by, Deepak K Upreti, published in, Deccan Herald on March 26, 2007, unknown senior officials sited various 'hurdles', such as, 'non-availability of data entry operators in regional languages, difficulty in capturing photographs and finger biometrics'[cxiv] 114> in addition to, ' "Weak document base" for determining citizenship status of individuals in rural areas , especially for agricultural laborers, landless laborers, married females, and individuals not present at their place of residence'[cxv] 115> at the time of enumeration. Undeterred by these troubles the Government has introduced an umbrella of unique identification numbers and smartcards to stabilize the predicament of individual membership in a variety of contexts. *14. Avalanche of Smart Cards* * * On 25th November 2003, the National Securities Depositories Ltd, [NSDL] launched MAPIN[cxvi] 116>, a unique number identification enabled smart card for market participants and investors. NSDL's sister concern NDML or NSDL Data Management Ltd maintains the National Skills Registry [NSR] for Information Technology Professionals. Through a unique identification number generated from finger print patterning the NSR provides verification of details and details of verification to both the ITP and the prospective employers[cxvii] 117>. But perhaps the most imaginative idea is proposed by the Report of the Eleventh Plan Working Group on Integrated Smart Card System, submitted by the Planning Commission, Government of India, in January 2007, titled- Entitlement Reform for Empowering the Poor: The Integrated Smart Card[cxviii] 118>. On page 8, Chapter 2, titled, Multi Application smart card, section 5, titled Application to unique ID to Government schemes the report puts forth what it considers as 'a major conceptual and practical issue'[cxix] 119> 'converting all unique IDs in a household into a single unit' because 'Welfare schemes such as TPDS [Targeted Public Distribution System] and the NREGS [National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme] are based on the household rather than the individual'[cxx] 120>. On the next page it dwells on the question of 'how to take children into account'[cxxi] 121>. Since MNIC cards will only be given to adults, child centered schemes like MDMS [Mid Day Meal Scheme] and ICDS [Integrated Child Development Scheme] needs to be fully addressed 'in the unique ID based smart card framework'[cxxii] 122>. One of the solutions on offer is, that 'the biometric information of all family members needs to be in-built into the smart card'[cxxiii] 123>. The report is under consideration by the Government. ------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ [i] ref1> The Hindu, January 05, 2002, The Cost of War, C Rammanohar Reddy - http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/01/05/stories/2002010501261000.htm [ii] ref2>Sainik Samachar,Vol.47, No17,1-15 September 2000, Kargil War: A Glorious victory for India,*/ /*K Subrahmanyam http://mod.nic.in/samachar/17/html/ch8.htm [iii] ref3> India Today, August 9, 1999, Kargil Intrusion, The War of Words, Harinder Baweja and Raj Chengappa http://www.india-today.com/itoday/19990809/defence.html [iv] ref4> ibid [v] ref5> Frontline,* *Volume 17 - Issue 06, Mar. 18 - 31, 2000. The Kargil Committee Expedition, A G Noorani- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1706/17060860.htm [vi] ref6> PIB Press Release K. SUBRAHMANYAM COMMITTEE INVITES INPUTS - http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/l0899/r040899.html [vii] ref7> Rajya Sabha, Executive Summary of the Kargil Committee Report- http://rajyasabha.nic.in/25indi1.htm#9 [viii] ref8> PIB Press Release, K. SUBRAHMANYAM COMMITTEE INVITES INPUTS - http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/l0899/r040899.html [ix] ref9> ibid [x] ref10> ibid [xi] ref11> ibid [xii] ref12> National Agenda For Governance- http://www.bjp.org/nagenta.htm#national [xiii] ref13> ibid [xiv] ref14> ibid [xv] ref15> ibid [xvi] ref16> Rajya Sabha, Synopsis of Debates, Proceedings other than questions and answers,* *DISCUSSION ON THE WORKING OF THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE, SHRI NILOTPAL BASU, Monday May 15, 2000 http://164.100.24.167/rsdebate/synopsis/189/15052000.htm [xvii] ref17> From a talk titled -NATIONAL SECURITY MECHANISM- delivered by, B. Raman, at a seminar on "National Security--Internal and External Dimensions" jointly organised by the Association of Retired Senior Indian Police Service Officers (ARSIPSO) and the India International Centre (IIC) at New Delhi on January 15, 2005). http://www.saag.org/papers13/paper1228.html B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai, and Distinguished Fellow and Convenor, Observer Research Foundation, Chennai// [xviii] ref18> ibid [xix] ref19> ibid [xx] ref20> IDSA- About, General Information- http://www.idsa.in/about-idsa.htm [xxi] ref21> Rajya Sabha, Synopsis of Debates, Proceedings other than questions and answers, DISCUSSION ON THE WORKING OF THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE, SHRI NILOTPAL BASU, Monday May 15, 2000 http://164.100.24.167/rsdebate/synopsis/189/15052000.htm [xxii] ref22> PIB Press Release, National Security Council set up- http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr98/l1198/r191198.html [xxiii] ref23> ibid [xxiv] ref24> K Subrahmanyam wikipedia profile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Subrahmanyam [xxv] ref25> PIB SENIOR LEVEL APPOINTMENTS- http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/l0599/r030599.html [xxvi] ref26> Frontline, Volume 17 - Issue 02, Jan. 22 - Feb. 04, 2000, The Armed Forces, A Committee and some Questions, Praveen Swami- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1702/17020310.htm [xxvii] ref27> Frontline,* *Volume 17 - Issue 06, Mar. 18 - 31, 2000. The Kargil Committee Expedition, A G Noorani- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1706/17060860.htm. [xxviii] ref28> Frontline, Volume 17 - Issue 02, Jan. 22 - Feb. 04, 2000. The Armed Forces, A Committee and some Questions, Praveen Swami- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1702/17020310.htm [xxix] ref29> Frontline,* *Volume 17 - Issue 06, Mar. 18 - 31, 2000. The Kargil Committee Expedition, A G Noorani- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1706/17060860.htm [xxx] ref30> Frontline, Volume 17-Issue 02, Jan.22-Feb. 04, 2000, The Armed Forces, a committee and some questions, A first person account with regard to Kargil Review Committee Report and its implications, Praveen Swami. http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1702/17020310.htm [xxxi] ref31> Frontline,* *Volume 17 - Issue 06, Mar. 18 - 31, 2000. The Kargil Committee Expedition, A G Noorani- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1706/17060860.htm [xxxii] ref32> Frontline, Volume 17-Issue 02, Jan.22-Feb. 04, 2000, The Armed Forces, a committee and some questions, A first person account with regard to Kargil Review Committee Report and its implications, Praveen Swami. http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1702/17020310.htm [xxxiii] ref33> ibid [xxxiv] ref34> Lok Sabha, Bulletin -Part II [General information Relating to Parliamentary and the matters], Friday August 18, 2000. No.1176- The following motion given notice of by Shri George Fernandes has been admitted:- "That this House do consider the Report of (Subrahmanyam Committee) laid on the Table of Lok Sabha on the 24th February, 2000." http://www.parliamentofindia.nic.in/ls/bulletin2/2k/18082k.html [xxxv] ref35> The Tribune, Friday, February 25, 2000, Kargil took army, Govt unawares, Panel blames defense chiefs, security set up, Tribune news service- http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000225/main1.htm [xxxvi] ref36> ibid [xxxvii] ref37> Rajya Sabha, Journal of 189th Session, Tuesday, the 18th of April, 2000, 12 Noon,* *4. Papers Laid on the Table,* *Shri Harin Pathak (Minister of State in the Ministry of Defense) laid on the Table a copy (in English and Hindi) of the Supplementary Action Taken Report on the recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee. http://164.100.24.167/journals/189/18042000.htm [xxxviii] ref38> B G Verghese About the Author- http://www.bgverghese.com/about.htm [xxxix] ref39> Executive Summary of the Kargil Review Committee Report as presented in Rajya Sabha, 25 Feburary, 2000. VII. Was Kargil Avoidable?- http://rajyasabha.nic.in/25indi1.htm#8 [xl] ref40> ibid [xli] ref41> Executive Summary of the Kargil Review Committee Report as presented in Rajya Sabha, 25 Feburary, 2000. Recommendations. Intelligence- http://rajyasabha.nic.in/25indi1.htm#8 [xlii] ref42> ibid [xliii] ref43> Executive Summary of the Kargil Review Committee Report as presented in Rajya Sabha, 25 Feburary, 2000. Recommendations. Civil Military Liaison- http://rajyasabha.nic.in/25indi1.htm#8 [xliv] ref44> India Today, August 9, 1999, Kargil Intrusion, The War of Words, Harinder Baweja and Raj Chengappa http://www.india-today.com/itoday/19990809/defence.html [xlv] ref45> ibid [xlvi] ref46> ibid [xlvii] ref47> ibid [xlviii] ref48> Frontline, Volume 16-Issue 17, Aug 14-27 1999, The Kargil Conflict, A Probe and its Prospects, Praveen Swami- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1617/16170330.htm [xlix] ref49> The Hindustan Times, July 26, 1999, Kargil Inquiry an eyewash, says opposition and experts, Vinod Sharma- http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0799/223.html [l] ref50> Frontline, Volume 17-Issue 7, Apr 01-14, 2000, Letters, The Kargil Report, N Kunju, Delhi. http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1707/17071130.htm [li] ref51> Uncorrected Debates, Rajya Sabha, 189th Session, 2PM to 3 PM, The Data is taken from the uncorrected verbatim debates. Shri LSR Murthy, Director[Reporting] http://164.100.24.167/rsdebate/deb_ndx/189thdeb/189deb.htm [lii] ref52> Reforming the National Security System- Recommendations of the Group of Ministers, Annexture A http://mod.nic.in/newadditions/welcome.html [liii] ref53> ibid [liv] ref54> ibid [lv] ref55> Bharat Rakshak Monitor- Volume 3 (4) January- February, 2000, Featured Articles, Intelligence Reforms, Sunil Sainis- http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-4/sainis.html [lvi] ref56> Frontline, volume 18 Issue 1, Jan 06-19, 2001, Defence, Battle over Intelligence, Praveen Swami- http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1801/18010240.htm [lvii] ref57> Bharat Rakshak Monitor- Volume 3 (4) January- February, 2000, Featured Articles, Intelligence Reforms, Sunil Sainis- http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-4/sainis.html [lviii] ref58> Government Of India Ministry Of Defence Lok Sabha Unstarred Question No 681 To Be Answered On 27.07.2000 Follow Up Action On Report Of Subrahmanyam Committee 681.Shri Raghunandan Lal Bhatia Dilip Kumar Mansukhlal Gandhi Bhavana Pundlikrao Gawali Kanti Singh Raghuvansh Prasad Singh http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=7762 [lix] ref59> ibid [lx] ref60> ibid [lxi] ref61> G C Saxena. J&K Rajbhavan Profile http://jkrajbhawan.nic.in/His%20Excellency/present10.htm [lxii] ref62> Bharat Rakshak Monitor- Volume 3 (4) January- February, 2000, Featured Articles, Intelligence Reforms, Sunil Sainis- http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-4/sainis.html [lxiii] ref63> IDSA Faculty, Director, NS Sisodia http://www.idsa.in/faculty/n-s-sisodia.htm [lxiv] ref64> The Tribune, Main News, SS Sodhi, NN Vohra are new Tribune Trustees, Tribune News Service, Saturday, February, 9, 2002, Chandigarh, India-http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020209/main3.htm [lxv] ref65> The Hindu, Thursday, February 20, 2003, Front Page, Vohra new interlocutor to Jand K http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/02/20/stories/2003022006040100.htm [lxvi] ref66> The Tirbune, Book Review, G.V.Gupta, Sunday, March 7, 1999, Bullet for Bullet:My Life as Police Officer by Julio Roberio, Viking,, New Delhi. http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99mar07/book.htm#1 [lxvii] ref67> Meeta Bhatti, Profile, Julio Riberio, Still on the Job, Harmony for silver's foundation. http://www.harmonyindia.org/hportal/VirtualPageView.jsp?page_id=1200 [lxviii] ref68> Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis, Executive council, 2005-07, NN Vohra Member. http://www.idsa.in/executivecouncil.htm [lxix] ref69> Outlook Magazine, December 21 1998, Book Review by Ranjit Bhushan, Policing the Force, Rajendra Shekhar. http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=19981221&fname=booksa&sid=1 [lxx] ref70> Manipur Legislative Assembly Former Governors, Lt. Gen. [Retd] VK Nayar 31.08.1993-12.02.1994 http://manipurassembly.nic.in/governor.htm [lxxi] ref71> Rear Admiral [Retd]Satyindra Singh, Remembering Operation Bluestar. Book Review. All about Sikhs- http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/Sikh-History/Remembering-Operation-Bluestar.html [lxxii] ref72> Sheela Bhatt, Are our policies to fight terror, right or wrong?, interview with Dr. Madhav Godbole, rediff, September 15, 2006.- http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/sep/15inter1.htm [lxxiii] ref73> Force, Monthly Magazine on National Security, About the Editors, Consulting Editor, V K Sood http://www.forceindia.net/editor.asp [lxxiv] ref74> The Hindustan Times, July 26, 1999, Kargil Inquiry an eyewash, says opposition and experts, Vinod Sharma- http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0799/223.html [lxxv] ref75> Chief Secretaries of Rajasthan, ML Mehta 02..02.1994- 31.12.1997. http://www.rajasthan.gov.in/CS.SHTM [lxxvi] ref76> The Tribune, Saturday, November 14, 1998,, Nehru Fellowship, T Ananthachari- http://www.tribuneindia.com/1998/98nov14/nation.htm#12 [lxxvii] ref77> Joy Joseph, Experts urge Govt to see importance of seas, International Fleet Review 2001, rediff.com- http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/feb/16josy2.htm [lxxviii] ref78> Andhra Pradesh CID, Chiefs then and now,Sri D.V.L.N. Rama Krishna Rao, IPS I.G.P.19/05/1986 27/06/1988 - http://www.cidap.gov.in/chiefs.aspx [lxxix] ref79> Hindustan Times, Cities, October 29, 2005, Chronology of Red Fort Case, Press Trust of India, New Delhi Oct 24, 2005. http://www.hindustantimes.in/news/181_1528110,0006.htm [lxxx] ref80> Delhi police, Bhagidari, 15. Changes Observed. 6. Tenant Verification in the Colonies. http://delhigovt.nic.in/bhagi.asp#25 [lxxxi] ref81> Rajya Sabha, list of Question for oral answers, to be asked at a sitting of Rajya Sabha to be held on, Wednesday, the April 17, 2002. 342. Tenant Verification Drive in Delhi. Shri Amar Singh. http://164.100.24.167/dailyques/195/sq17042002.pdf [lxxxii] ref82> Hindustan Times, Cities, October 29, 2005, Chronology of Red Fort Case, Press Trust of India, New Delhi Oct 24, 2005. http://www.hindustantimes.in/news/181_1528110,0006.htm [lxxxiii] ref83> Bharat Rakshak Monitor- Volume 3 (4) January- February, 2000, Featured Articles, Intelligence Reforms, Sunil Sainis- http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-4/sainis.html [lxxxiv] ref84> Government if India, Ministry of Defense, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 915, To Be Answered on 22.11.2001, Kargil Review Committee, Smt, Jayaben B Thakkar http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=34243 [lxxxv] ref85> ibid [lxxxvi] ref86> Government if India, Ministry of Personnel, Public Greviance and Pension, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 4726, To Be Answered on 18.04.2001, Smart Card System. Dr.Daggubati Ramanaidu. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=22690 < http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=34553> [lxxxvii] ref87> Government if India, Ministry of Labour, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 4200, To Be Answered on 28.08.2001, Smart Card Pushpdan Shanbhudan Gadhavi and Sukender Reddy Gutha http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=29705 [lxxxviii] ref88> Government if India, Ministry of Power, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 2662, To Be Answered on 16.12.2001, Selling Electrification Through Smart Card Dr. Ramesh Chander Tomar, Shyama singh http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=33608 [lxxxix] ref89> Government if India, Ministry of Information and Technology, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 3657, To Be Answered on 12.12.2001, Development of Smart Card, Gowdar Mallikarjunappa, Gangasandra Siddappa Basavaraj, Iqbal Ahmed Saradgiy and S. Vivekananda Reddy. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=34553 [xc] ref90> 2001:Suicide Attack in Indian Parliament, bbc.co.uk http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/13/newsid_3695000/3695057.stm [xci] ref91> ibid [xcii] ref92> PIB Press Release, 20th February, 2003, Ministry of Defense, De-Mining of forward Areas. http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2003/rfeb2003/20022003/r2002200311.html [xciii] ref93> Anjali Mody, Three sentenced to death in Parliament Attack Case, The Hindu, Thrusday, December 19 2002, Front page. http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/12/19/stories/2002121905170100.htm [xciv] ref94> Times of India, Parliament Attack chronology, 29 October, 2003. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/256595.cms [xcv] ref95> Government if India, Ministry of Civil Avaition, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 177, To Be Answered on 18.11.2002, Smart Card to Air India Passengers, Paty Ripple Kyndiah. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=48948 [xcvi] ref96> Government if India, Ministry of Civil Avaition, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 2218, To Be Answered on 18.03.2002, Smart Card to Employees working at the Air ports, Smt Shyama Singh, Kambalapadu E. Krishnamurthy. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=38118 [xcvii] ref97> Government if India, Ministry of Civil Avaition, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 3175, To Be Answered on 05.08.2002, Smart Card Security System in Air ports, Kambalapadu E. Krishnamurthy. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=46999 [xcviii] ref98> Government if India, Ministry of Consumer Affairs Food and Public Distribution, Lok Sabha, Unstarred Question, No. 4192, To Be Answered on 19.04.2002, Smart Card for PDS, Chadda Suresh Reddy, Gaddam Ganga Reddy. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=40088 [xcix] ref99> rediff.com, Elections 2004, Manmohan Singh, 67 Ministers Sworn in, May 22, 2004. http://in.rediff.com/election/2004/may/22man.htm [c] ref100> National e-Governance Plan,National e Governance Plan - Workshop with States and UTs, 11-12 March 2005, Hotel Samrat, New Delhi. http://www.mit.gov.in/plan/cmmp.asp 05 National Citizen Database Ministry of Home Affairs/Registrar General of India (RGI ) ppt Slide 5 http://www.mit.gov.in/plan/ppt/national%20ID.ppt [ci] ref101> Government Of India Ministry Of Home Affairs Lok Sabha Starred Question No 37 To Be Answered On 22.07.2003 Multipurpose Identity Cards 37. Shri Dalpat Singh Paraste Mohan Rawale. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=62367 [cii] ref102> Reforming the National Security System - Recommendations of the Group of Ministers (The report is in pdf ) CONTENTS Chapter V Border Management Page 58. http://mod.nic.in/newadditions/welcome.html [ciii] ref103> ibid [civ] ref104> ibid, Chapter V Border Management. 5.110. Pg. 85 [cv] ref105> Government Of India Ministry Of Consumer Affairs And Public Distribution Lok Sabha Unstarred Question No 6996 To Be Answered On 11.05.2000 Cancellation Of Ration Cards 6996. Smt. Jayaben B. Thakkar. http://164.100.24.208/lsq/quest.asp?qref=4269 [cvi] ref106> Government Of India Ministry Of Law And Justice Lok Sabha Unstarred Question No 1697 To Be Answered On 09.03.2007 Voters Identity Cards 1697. Shri Jyotiraditya Madhavrao Scindia. http://164.100.24.208/lsq14/quest.asp?qref=41635 [cvii] ref107> ibid [cviii] ref108> ibid [cix] ref109> Reforming the National Security System - Recommendations of the Group of Ministers (The report is in pdf ) CONTENTS Chapter IV Internal Security Page 50. http://mod.nic.in/newadditions/welcome.html [cx] ref110> Dipak Mishra, Bihar govt refuses to implement ID-card plan,13 February, The Times Of India,Cities: Patna. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/37306745.cms [cxi] ref111> ibid [cxii] ref112> ibid [cxiii] ref113> Surojit Mahalonbis, People count gaining smooth momentum, The Times Of India,23 Jul, 2004, Cities: Delhi. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/788272.cms [cxiv] ref114> Deepak K Upreti DH News Service New Delhi,National ID cards to be ready soon, Deccan Herald,Monday, March 26, 2007. http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/Mar262007/national019192007326.asp [cxv] ref115> ibid [cxvi] ref116> National Securities Depositories Ltd. Launch of Central Database of Market Participants https://nsdl.co.in/mapin.php [cxvii] ref117> National Skills Registry Description. https://nationalskillsregistry.com/NSR_DESCRIPTION.html [cxviii] ref118> Working Groups / Task Force for the Eleventh Five Year Plan (2007-2012).Planning Commission, Government of India 4.Development Policy Division Entitlement reform for empowering the poor: The Integrated Smart Card Report (ISC). January 2007 Report: MS Word. http://planningcommission.nic.in/aboutus/committee/11wrkgindx.htm [cxix] ref119> ibid Chapter 2, Multi Application smart Card. 2.5 Application of Unique ID to Government schemes page 8 http://planningcommission.nic.in/aboutus/committee/11wrkgindx.htm [cxx] ref120> ibid [cxxi] ref121> ibid Chapter 2, Multi Application smart Card. 2.5 Application of Unique ID to Government schemes page 9 http://planningcommission.nic.in/aboutus/committee/11wrkgindx.htm [cxxii] ref122> ibid [cxxiii] ref123> ibid From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Dec 8 14:28:16 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (videoNET) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:58:16 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_5th_series_of_ne?= =?iso-8859-1?q?w_interviews_on_VIP?= Message-ID: <20081208095816.F9CC8E11.5AD00E5A@192.168.0.3> VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project http://vip.newmediafest.org/ published the 5th series of new interviews with these film and video makers // Michael Fortune (Ireland), Jaye Ho (UK), Jo-Lin Hsieh (Taiwan), Magnus Irvin (UK), Samuel van Ransbeeck (Belgium), Ana Yu (Taiwan) Richard O'Sullivan (UK), Agnes Szelag (Poland) LEMEH42 - Michele Santini & Lorenza Paolini (Italy) Julio Velasco (Colombia), Maria Ylikoski (Finland) Joshua and Zachary Sandler (USA) Shoko Toda (Japan), E.W. Walters (Poland) \\ Until the official online launch of CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival 4th edition - "Here We Are!" - on 11 December 2008 http://coff.newmediafest.org - in total 48 interviews with new festival participants are posted online. // ------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------- corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 19:37:48 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:07:48 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Notes from a contested history of Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) in India:1999-2007 Message-ID: Taha, Thanks for sending this fascinating set of information/notes/etc. Would like to pass around to a few people, could you send the reference (where was it published) and are you the author (it wasn't clear). From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Dec 8 20:45:17 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:15:17 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Notes from a contested history of Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) in India:1999-2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40812080715v63aaadd2lda4a4d155c2cb301@mail.gmail.com> Dear Naeem, Thank you for your mail. I think that in India, a national identity card is slowly being peddled as a solution for all the social ills. For instance after the recent Mumbai bomb lasts, the one person who thought national identity card was the key, was Preity Zinta. In a panel discussion on NDTV last week it was interesting to watch her articulate her Big Idea- a la solution to all the problems pertaning to 'terrorism'. She was of the opinion that all Indians must be fingerprinted and a National Identity Card must be issued to all. :) But that apart I would be glad if you pass this essay around. I wrote this essay as a backgrounder for a conference last year. This was not published anywhere. The material for this essay was gleaned from my research with the Information Society project at Sarai (2004-2007). While you are at the please feel free to have a look at other essays that I have posted on the Reader-list during the past month. These essays cover the discourse around the Multiple-Purpose National Identity Card in India from a range of perspectives. I would be happy if you could share similar/divergent discourses on National Identity cards or smart cards in Bangladesh/ US or elsewhere. I am quite aware of discourse with respect to US but I am curious if there exists an emerging discourse in Bangladesh. Kind regards Taha From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 14:49:02 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:19:02 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Taimur Khan: Night falls on Karachi Message-ID: Taimur Khan was briefly part of Visible Collective in the last year of the Disappeared In America project (disappearedinamerica.org). He has been pursuing print journalism while keeping his film work on hold, and just wrote this fairly pessimistic take on Karachi. http://www.thenational.ae/article/20081205/REVIEW/266186311/1008 Night falls on Karachi * Last Updated: December 04. 2008 9:46PM UAE / December 4. 2008 5:46PM GMT Visiting Pakistan for the first time in three years, Taimur Khan finds its largest city's resilience drowned out by gunshots, fear and uncertainty. Fifteen years ago, late on a cool winter night in Karachi, the acrid air was thick and still from the smoke of countless rubbish-fed fires, burning in the city's bleary slums and makeshift encampments, keeping people warm through the chilled hours before dawn. A car carrying four men turned off of an empty road and parked in front of my uncle's house in a subdivision of an affluent suburb, within sight of the Arabian Sea. The men emerged from their vehicle carrying Kalashnikovs, and, without knocking, were led through the front gate by my family's cook, who lived in a small servant's quarter at the rear of the house next to the kennel of two guard dogs. The men entered through a side door into the kitchen, went directly to the bedrooms where my three young female cousins slept, woke them, ordered them not to make a sound, and took them at gunpoint into their parents' room until they all stood a few feet from the king-size bed. My uncle, startled out of his sleep, lunged for the pistol he kept stowed in the bedside table. Fortunately, he was knocked unconscious by the butt of an intruder's gun before he could reach his own. After plundering the house, the thieves (and the cook) took off, laden with more cash and jewellery than they had presumably hoped for. Like many upper middle class Pakistani families, they kept large amounts of their wealth at home, fearing that in an emergency their savings might disappear from local banks. This was the 1990s. Home invasions were not uncommon in Karachi during this period. The city had become one of the world's murder capitals and was fraying under the weight of a fierce turf war between the city's two largest politico-ethnic groups. The Muttahida Quami Movement represented the demographic majority, Urdu-speaking immigrants from partitioned India. Its militia battled the Pakistan People's Party of then Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, supported largely by the native Sindhi population. Karachi was also awash in weapons, heroin and desperate refugees, and was reeling from the violence these terrible economies required. Even though Karachi smouldered for most of the decade, the perennial narratives of Pakistan as a chaos-ridden failed state permanently on the brink of becoming Talibanistan were flawed; local resilience and toughness proved them only half true. During my visits, I saw the shrines of Sufi saints, unique to South Asian Islam and especially to Sindhi culture, teeming with worshippers; the Urdu bazaar in the old city was packed with people buying books; and when the Indian cricket team finally came to play, the city revelled for days. After September 11, the economy grew at a pace that rivalled India's, and, as in India, there was for the first time the formation of a broad middle class. Last year, an outburst of bourgeois consciousness helped force out Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's military ruler, and demanded elections that many hoped signalled a meaningful shift towards democracy and away from military-feudal rule. The West was outwardly enthralled because it seemed that Pakistan was finally on the teleological road to liberal democracy, the only modernity it cares about. Two weeks ago I visited family in Karachi for the first time in three years. The fragile optimism I encountered in 2005 has evaporated. In the Nineties the upper middle class was comforted by the fact that no matter how bad things became in the short term, the status quo would always reassert itself: the military would always intervene to protect its interests, which overlapped with theirs. The army and intelligence agencies may have been fighting proxy wars in Afghanistan and on the border with India, but internally, the state maintained a surface equilibrium. But now the military is fighting a full-scale war on its home turf with the Pakistani Taliban. The idea that the army can maintain internal control has been revealed as fiction. Pakistan still isn't "the most dangerous place in the world", that sensationalist mantle thrust upon it last year by the American news media. On my first night in town, my favourite barbecue restaurant was still packed. But the city's mantra – "life goes on" – was muttered, rather than spoken with its usual easy confidence. For the first time I heard relatives talk of abandoning the country for the Gulf or North America. One day I went to a nearby barbershop to get a shave and have my hair oiled. I would have walked, but my uncle insisted I go by car with a driver – something he had never done, even after being robbed at gunpoint in his home. As we drove past neighbours' houses, where newly installed private security guards sat out front on charpais sipping tea, shotguns resting across their knees, I asked the driver, a young Sindhi from a village near the Bhutto clan's ancestral home, about the new PPP-led government and its leader, President Asif Ali Zardari. "Zardari's a thief," he said, echoing a sentiment I had heard from many Pakistanis. We rounded a corner and passed a lane congested by a maze of Baghdad-esque staggered blast walls and a cluster of paramilitaries. It led to the house of a PPP minister. "They're supposed to be protecting us," noted my driver. "But look, they are too scared to even come out of their houses in their own city." Poor, rural Sindhis have been the PPP's only reliable electoral base; things are not as predictable now as they once were. Pashtun refugees displaced by the fighting in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and the Swat valley have been arriving in Karachi by the thousands, and kidnapping is now a lucrative business. A few days into my stay, a family friend was abducted as he left work. That night, when the ransom request came, the caller made no attempt to conceal his number. It had originated in Wana, a town in the south of FATA. The gang, while most likely based in one of Karachi's off-limit mohallas, knew that no investigating agency would ever send police into a district where the army was enduring heavy casualties and American drones bombed daily. On my last night in Karachi, as I packed for an early morning flight back to Abu Dhabi, scattered gunfire sounded in the near distance. "Maybe it's just kids setting off patakas,"one of my uncles reasoned. But the staccato shots didn't stop, and were soon joined by deeper ones. Calls were made to friends around the city: did anyone know anything? Was the road to the airport safe? Everyone had a theory. The MQM and the Sunni Tehreek, a religious party, had been fighting each other almost every night for the past few weeks. Maybe their tit for tat drive-bys had finally escalated into pitched battles. Perhaps the Pashtuns' rivalry with the MQM over the control of working class neighbourhoods was spilling into other sections of the city. There was also word that Zardari was arriving from Islamabad that night; party loyalists could be to firing into the air when he came home, reminding everyone whose city it was. No one knew. Two weeks later, they still don't; the independent news channels, so lauded for their fearless coverage of last year's anti-Musharraf movement, are silent. A couple of hours later the shooting subsided but the normal sounds of the night – the watchman's shrill whistle, the Punjabi music from a wedding on our street, the obnoxious horns of Karachi's famous buses – never returned. tkhan at thenational.ae From angshukanta at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 15:03:56 2008 From: angshukanta at gmail.com (Angshukanta Chakraborty) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:33:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] A watershed for gay rights Message-ID: <77aa94900812090133s4d7081ebqf937b7f5a3827cbb@mail.gmail.com> A watershed for gay rights The UN must pass this week's historic declaration calling for the decriminalisation of homosexuality worldwide Comments (52) - [image: Peter Tatchell] - - *Peter Tatchell* - guardian.co.uk , Monday December 8 2008 20.00 GMT - Article history A declaration calling for the global decriminalisation of homosexuality will be put before the United NationsGeneral Assemblythis Wednesday, which is Human Rights Day and the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It will be the first time in its history that the UN General Assembly has considered the issue of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) human rights. Although it will not be binding on the member states, the declaration will have immense symbolic value, given the six decades in which homophobic persecution has been ignored by the UN. If you want to understand why this decriminalisation declaration is so important and necessary, ponder this: even today, not a single international human rights convention explicitly acknowledges the human rights of LGBT people. The right to physically love the person of one's choice is nowhere enshrined in any global humanitarian law. No convention recognises sexual rights as human rights. None offers explicit protection against discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Yet 86 countries(nearly half the nations on Earth) still have a total ban on male homosexuality and a smaller number also ban sex between women. The penalties in these countries range from a few years jail to life imprisonment. In at least seven countries or regions of countries (all under Islamist jurisdiction), the sentence is death: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, Mauritania and parts of Nigeria and Pakistan. Many of the countries that continue to criminalise same-sex relationships are in Africa and Asia. Their anti-gay laws were, in fact, imposed by the European powers during the period of colonialism. With the backing of Christian churches and missionaries, the imperial states exported their homophobia to the rest of the world. In many of the conquered lands, little such prejudice had previously existed and, in some cases, same-sex relations were variously tolerated, accepted and even venerated. This importation of western homophobia happened in countries like Ghana, Jamaica, Nigeria and Uganda, which now absurdly decry homosexuality as a "white man's disease" and "unAfrican", while vehemently denying and suppressing all knowledge of their own pre-colonial era indigenous homosexualities. Unsurprisingly, the Vatican and the Organisation of Islamic States are leading the fight against the UN declaration. The opposition of the Pope is truly sickening, depraved and shameless. Of course, the Vatican has form. In 2004, it teamed up with Islamist dictatorships in the UN Commission on Human Rights to thwart a resolutionsponsored by Brazil that opposed homophobic violence and discrimination. The Holy See is so viciously homophobic that it opposed the UN condemnation of the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. Last week, the papal envoy to the UN, Monsignor Celestino Migliore, explained the "logic" of this opposition when he announcedthe Vatican's rejection of this week's decriminalisation declaration. The monsignor argued that the UN declaration would unfairly "pillory" countries where homosexuality is illegal; forcing them to establish "new categories (gay people) protected from discrimination." Such laws would "create new and implacable acts of discrimination ... States where same-sex unions are not recognized as 'marriages,' for example, would be subject to international pressure." In other words, protecting LGBT people against discrimination is an act of discrimination against those who discriminate. Since the Vatican is against discrimination, it opposes discrimination against countries that discriminate. This is the mediaeval mindset of the Pope and his placemen. Never mind, there are already plenty of countries committed to supporting the UN decriminalisation declaration. It will be tabled on Wednesday by France with the backing of all 27 member states of the EU; plus non-EU European nations including Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Ukraine, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, Ukraine, Armenia and Macedonia. Russia and Turkey are not signing. The call for the decriminalisation of same-sex relationships also has the support of the Latin American states of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Mexico and Uruguay but not, notably, Columbia, Guyana or Venezuela. Only three African nations – Gabon, Cape Verde and Guinea-Bissau – are endorsing the declaration so far. South Africa has not signed up. No Caribbean nation has offered its support, not even Cuba. Although New Zealand is committed to the declaration, Australia is not. Nor is the US. But Canada is a sponsor. No country in the Middle East, apart from Israel, endorses the declaration, and in Asia only Japan has agreed to approve it. China and India are silent on where they stand. The initiative for the UN universal decriminalisation declaration came from the inspiring French black activist and gay rightscampaigner, Louis-Georges Tin, the founder of the International Day Against Homophobia (IDAHO). He lobbied the French government, which agreed to take the lead in getting the declaration tabled at the UN. Member organisations of the global IDAHO network then petitioned their individual governments to support it. What is truly remarkable is that IDAHO is just a loose, unfunded global grassroots LGBT activist network, with no office, no staff and no leaders. It has pulled off something that none of the well paid LGBT professionals, working for often lavishly financed LGBT non-governmental organisations, have managed to come even close to achieving. A reminder as to why this UN declaration matters occurred last Friday, a sad anniversary. On December 5 2007, Makvan Mouloodzadeh, a 21-year-old Iranian man, was hanged in Kermanshah Central Prison, after an unfair trial . A member of Iran's persecuted Kurdish minority, he was executed on charges of raping other boys when he was 13. In other words, he committed these alleged acts when he was minor. According to Iranian law, a boy under 15 is a minor and cannot be executed. At Makvan's mockery of a trial, the alleged rape victims retracted their previous statements, saying they had made their allegations under duress. Makvan pleaded not guilty, telling the court that his confession was made under torture. He was hanged anyway, without a shred of credible evidence that he had even had sex with the boys, let alone raped them. The lies, defamation and homophobia of the debauched Iranian legal system was exposed when hundreds of villagers attended Makvan's funeral. People don't mourn rapists. This execution was bare-faced homophobic judicial murder, according to Arsham Parsi, Executive Director, of the underground Iranian Queer Railroad , which helps Iranian LGBTs fleeing arrest, torture and execution. Makvan's fate is just one example of the thousands of state-sponsored acts of homophobic persecution that happen worldwide ever year. It shows why Wednesday's UN declaration is so important and so long overdue. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 16:52:17 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 03:22:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Another India is possible: a poster-making competition Message-ID: <153084.29708.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> DR. BINAYAK SEN FOR PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA! Yes you can make it happen ANOTHER INDIA IS POSSIBLE www.tasveerghar.net and www.binayaksen.net call upon netizens and all those interested anywhere to make posters on the theme of 'Another India is Possible'. The idea is to encourage artists and others to think afresh of what a positive vision of a future India could be like- in an imaginative, constructive but provocative way. The posters could be digitally produced or hand-made but they need to be available in soft copy form to be put up on a specially created website for this purpose. Some of the suggested topics are: (a) Democracy (b) Justice (c) Dignity (d) Human Rights (e) Children (f) Indigenous People (g) Gender (h) Access to Health (i) Safe Environment (j) Social Harmony. The campaign will culminate on 31st January 2009 and the best 50 posters will be compiled into a 'Visual Election Manifesto' to be presented to all the political parties prior to the next national general elections. A panel of eminent artists and social activists will vet the posters and special prizes will be announced during the campaign for the best poster (s) in different categories. CONTACT: saeed.yousuf at gmail.com or satyasagar at gmail.com From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Dec 9 15:35:48 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (Cinematheque) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:05:48 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_The_Best?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_of_Flash_on_the_Net?= Message-ID: <20081209110548.B1BA99E0.87050565@192.168.0.3> Deadline: 2 March 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net Call for entries \\ Flash & Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artictic creations // Since the Internet became popular in the late 90'ies of 20th century, the software program "FLASH", once developed and prepared for the commercial market by Macromedia, and now owned by Adobe, represents a vector based developing environment which enables the creator to combine different media and develop vector based animations especially for the Internet. .swf data file extension became a standard for animations online and offline, and Flash video and its .flv file format stands for "videostreaming" on the net. As soon as the Internet started, artists captured it for artistic purposes, and the same is good for certain software used for the net, particularly Flash is predestined for developing artistic creations due to its intuitive use. It became one of the most popular software tools for the net, computer based animations and interactive applications like games. Flash based artworks entered media festivals, even festivals solely based on movies created in Flash are organised. After Cinematheque - streaming media environments - explored in 2007 the capabilities of "Quicktime" as an artistic medium in the comprehensive show \\Slowtime? Quicktime as an artistic medium// - its now the time to explore in 2009 the artistic potential of Flash in its own way in a big online show, as well. // Flash and Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations \\ Cinematheque is looking for the best artistic Flash works created since 2000. Please find the regulations and entry form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Tue Dec 9 18:54:15 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:24:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] few performance images from J&K Art show In-Reply-To: <47e122a70812070700i409011deueb35a9932b6ce75e@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70812070700i409011deueb35a9932b6ce75e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Inder Salim, I found your presentation 'Na sches be tati, na yeati ( I am neither there, nor here ) quite moving.It is not easy to understand the various underlying layers of your artistic imagination but I could readily relate it to our present status of 'being displaced' -away from homeland..... I live under a roof yet find myself homeless.....(would not stress on the politically more correct 'being refugees in our own country ' to avoid any controversial debate on such a sensitive & heart rendering idea). Regards LA ps: how about putting up a A4 size or bigger picture of that protuding 'thorned foot' on top of the tin box...????... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:46 +0530> From: indersalim at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] few performance images from J&K Art show> > Na ches be tati, na tati ( I am neither there, nor here ) Opening> Performance: Aprana Gallery 6th Dec. 2008> > It was traditional shringar ( femininely decorated ) of my left foot> that exhibited itself from a small window of a 50x22x22 inches steel> box, placed upside down on the floor amidst other art works. A dead> thorny twig stuck underneath my left foot. I remained inside the box> during the entire opening of the group show from J&K. Dr. Kapila> Vatsayayan, our chief Guest began her speck from this box: "I am here> because….". Some amongst the audience actually removed the thorn,> and I kept on replacing it with another thorn from inside the box.> > I share, some images about what was happening out side the box.> Much more must have happened while I was inside the box, but all have> few images, hope you like them.> > Just click, click http://indersalim.livejournal.com> to see couple of them.> > With love and regards> Inder salim> > > > --> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Wish to Marry Now? Join MSN Matrimony FREE! http://in.msn.com/matrimony From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 18:55:36 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:55:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar Message-ID: <6353c690812090525m3b5f22a4l94d5f402115fd57@mail.gmail.com> Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar ANI *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the arrest of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported mastermind of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its activities. "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted the Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near Lahore. The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" and is concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan. He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he spoke. The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, his eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer. "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to conduct attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh Raees, a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management Sciences. The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits. "Young boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, because they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their families are involved," he said. Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice. "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more desperate for money in Pakistan," she said. "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children became orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such as Lashkar," she added. She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000 dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for young boys," the Lashkar organizer said. However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that the organization has training camps. "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was formed in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said. *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan* Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes, saying questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain whether he had any link to the attacks. Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's 'concerns' can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad has proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks. "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who these culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel. He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to the Mumbai terror attacks. Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only terrorist caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators. "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get hold of the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be involved (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find out," he said. Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and gaining confidence of each other," he said. Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired by Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' of incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war against terror and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace. From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 19:46:54 2008 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:46:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar In-Reply-To: <6353c690812090525m3b5f22a4l94d5f402115fd57@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812090525m3b5f22a4l94d5f402115fd57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00812090616m14887a7vdbb5492ae0d74255@mail.gmail.com> "He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he spoke." I am sorry to say but this looks like the work of a typical western journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head. I doubt the credibility of this report on the grounds that it was clearly inspired from a Frederick Forsythe novel. The statement, "we are still well organised and active" is so absurd. The reporter calls the person a "coodinator" and then asks if they are not organised or active. How bizzare. (And how can we forget the cliche -- safe houses) "They are concentrated on the tribal areas of Western provinces of Pakistan": Even american missles knew about this. Where is the news here? Also very conspiratorially the reporter states the problem of Jihad with a quote from the so-called coordinator, stating the same shit (sorry but it's true) we have been getting on television and newspaper. If Jihad is epitome of good muslim, then the reporter should have also stated in a responsible manner that the Holy Koran has a very different connotation of Jehad as opposed to what a lot of non-muslims think of. ANI is a prestigious news organisation. Care must be taken not to make half hearted attempts to report about the real issues behind the pall of such calamity. My point here is if you have called it extremism, used phrases like jehad, holy war, fundamentalism, and other such things, then you must investigate why so many are becoming a part of this agenda. what makes a pashtoon from waziristan take up arms, who is capable of tilling the arid soils single handedly? On 12/9/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar > ANI > *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the arrest > of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported mastermind > of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of > Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its > activities. > > "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted the > Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near > Lahore. > > The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" and is > concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan. > > He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for > the > interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he > spoke. > > The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, his > eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer. > > "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to conduct > attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh Raees, > a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management > Sciences. > > The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits. > "Young > boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, because > they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their > families are involved," he said. > > Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan > extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice. > > "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more desperate for > money in Pakistan," she said. > > "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children became > orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such > as > Lashkar," she added. > > She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000 > dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for young > boys," the Lashkar organizer said. > > However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that > the organization has training camps. > > "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was > formed > in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said. > > *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan* > > Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander Zakiur > Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes, > saying > questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain > whether > he had any link to the attacks. > > Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's 'concerns' > can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad > has > proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks. > > "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who these > culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel. > > He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the > crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to > the Mumbai terror attacks. > > Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only terrorist > caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators. > > "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get hold of > the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be > involved > (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to > find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find out," > he said. > > Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of > improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. > > "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and gaining > confidence of each other," he said. > > Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired > by > Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' of > incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war against terror > and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 03:43:06 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:13:06 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar References: <6353c690812090525m3b5f22a4l94d5f402115fd57@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00812090616m14887a7vdbb5492ae0d74255@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <71C45CB5CE2B4B8D9E7297A84DAC77D5@tara> Looks like you are being a little too harsh on journalists. When they report on a particular incident, you can't expect them to write a whole book on that report; incorporating everything you want them to. The journalists were not covering Jihad, they were covering a specific event. Best ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" To: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us,jihad will continue: Lashkar > "He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for > the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as > he spoke." > > > I am sorry to say but this looks like the work of a typical western > journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head. I > doubt the credibility of this report on the grounds that it was clearly > inspired from a Frederick Forsythe novel. > > The statement, "we are still well organised and active" is so absurd. The > reporter calls the person a "coodinator" and then asks if they are not > organised or active. How bizzare. (And how can we forget the cliche -- > safe > houses) > > "They are concentrated on the tribal areas of Western provinces of > Pakistan": Even american missles knew about this. Where is the news here? > > Also very conspiratorially the reporter states the problem of Jihad with a > quote from the so-called coordinator, stating the same shit (sorry but > it's > true) we have been getting on television and newspaper. If Jihad is > epitome > of good muslim, then the reporter should have also stated in a responsible > manner that the Holy Koran has a very different connotation of Jehad as > opposed to what a lot of non-muslims think of. > > ANI is a prestigious news organisation. Care must be taken not to make > half > hearted attempts to report about the real issues behind the pall of such > calamity. My point here is if you have called it extremism, used phrases > like jehad, holy war, fundamentalism, and other such things, then you must > investigate why so many are becoming a part of this agenda. what makes > a pashtoon from waziristan take up arms, who is capable of tilling the > arid > soils single handedly? > > > > On 12/9/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: >> >> Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar >> ANI >> *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the >> arrest >> of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported >> mastermind >> of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of >> Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its >> activities. >> >> "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted >> the >> Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near >> Lahore. >> >> The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" and is >> concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan. >> >> He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for >> the >> interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he >> spoke. >> >> The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, >> his >> eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer. >> >> "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to conduct >> attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh >> Raees, >> a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management >> Sciences. >> >> The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits. >> "Young >> boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, >> because >> they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their >> families are involved," he said. >> >> Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan >> extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice. >> >> "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more desperate >> for >> money in Pakistan," she said. >> >> "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children >> became >> orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such >> as >> Lashkar," she added. >> >> She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000 >> dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for young >> boys," the Lashkar organizer said. >> >> However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that >> the organization has training camps. >> >> "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was >> formed >> in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said. >> >> *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan* >> >> Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander >> Zakiur >> Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes, >> saying >> questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain >> whether >> he had any link to the attacks. >> >> Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's 'concerns' >> can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad >> has >> proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks. >> >> "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who >> these >> culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel. >> >> He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the >> crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to >> the Mumbai terror attacks. >> >> Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only >> terrorist >> caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators. >> >> "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get hold >> of >> the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be >> involved >> (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to >> find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find >> out," >> he said. >> >> Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of >> improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. >> >> "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and gaining >> confidence of each other," he said. >> >> Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired >> by >> Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' of >> incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war against >> terror >> and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 09:46:58 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr Message-ID: December 08, 2008 When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr Ruchira Paul http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls from practically every part of India belonging to several different linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: Wah Dutt Sultan, Hindu ka Dharam Musalman ka Iman, Wah Dutt Sultan Adha Hindu Adha Musalman [Oh, Dutt the king, follows the religion of the Hindu And the faith of the Muslim. Oh, Dutt the king, He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat flowery text: The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so, these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same time. I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. From alexanderaugust at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 11:39:47 2008 From: alexanderaugust at gmail.com (Alexander Keefe) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:39:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] blogging public art in Delhi: 48c Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to make a quick announcement that the official blogfor Khoj's 48c public.art.ecology project in Delhi is up and running. It will only run until the festival ends on December 21, but during that time I'm striving mightily to keep it interesting: look for posts on the sites being used around the city, on the artists involved, on the shifting nature of what constitutes the "public," on urban theory, and on the limitations and potentials for artistic intervention in the ecological crises that face Delhi these days. Stop by and have a look if you have the time, but better yet contribute! Comments are always welcome, but if anyone is interested in contributing a guest posting, drop me a line. With best regards, Alex -- jugaadoo.blogspot.com From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 14:48:22 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:18:22 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] India Human Rights Report 2008 Message-ID: ACHR WEEKLY REVIEW [The weekly commentary and analysis of the Asian Centre for Human Rights] [ACHR has Special Consultative Status with the UN ECOSOC] C-3/441-C, Janakpuri, New Delhi-110058, India Tel/Fax: +91-11- 45501889 25620583 Website: www.achrweb.org; Email: achr_review at achrweb.org Embargoed for: 10 December 2008 Dear Sir/Madam, On the occasion of the Human Rights Day, Asian Centre for Human Rights has the pleasure to inform that its "India Human Rights Report 2008" was released at a press conference at the Guwahati Press Club, Assam yesterday, 9th December 2008. This 170-page report is the only annual report to examine human rights problems on a nationwide scale in India. In each State, the report analyses human rights violations by the security forces, violations of International Humanitarian Law by the armed groups, state of the judiciary and administration of justice, the status of the State Human Rights Commissions, freedom of the press, violations of the rights of indigenous/tribal peoples, violations of the rights of the Dalits, violence against women, violations of the prisoners' rights, internally displaced persons etc. As stated in the Preface of the "India Human Rights Report 2008", the findings serve as a warning of deepening internal conflict. The report underlines that human rights violations by the State, combined with the failure of State institutions to address these violations, are fuelling internal conflict. The Preface summarises the key issues: the relevance of Annual India Human Rights Report, Human Rights and Insurgency, Fuelling Conflict, Gross Under-reporting, No statistics on human rights violations by the Army, Flawed NCRB figures, Flawed NHRC figures, Failure to support governmental institutions and outright cover up, The Judiciary , Low levels of Non-Governmental Activity and recommendations for reform. The pdf version of the full report is available at: http://www.achrweb.org/reports/india/AR08/AR2008.pdf The html versions for each State are available at: http://www.achrweb.org/reports/india/AR2008.html We hope that you would find the report of interest. With kind regards, Yours sincerely Suhas Chakma Director From difusion at medialab-prado.es Wed Dec 10 16:18:00 2008 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:48:00 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Papers> INCLUSIVA-NET: NET.ART. THE EVOLUTION OF ARTISTIC CREATION IN THE NET-SYSTEM Message-ID: <493F9E60.3010101@medialab-prado.es> :: Please spread this call for entries - thanks! :: CALL FOR PAPERS * 3rd INCLUSIVA-NET MEETING: NET.ART. THE EVOLUTION OF ARTISTIC CREATION IN THE NET-SYSTEM International Seminar * Deadline for entries: *January 12 , 2009 * Dates of the event: *March 2 - 6, 2009* at the Cultural Center of Spain in Buenos Aires (Argentina) Open call for papers to be presented within the context of this third meeting of the Inclusiva-net platform. This edition aims to develop an analysis of the current situation of artistic practices on the web from various theoretical and critical perspectives. It includes seminars, debate sessions, and lectures of papers chosen from this public call. Many topics will be addressed including questions such as: Can we speak of a second epoch in net.art? What do the new art forms based on on/off-line hybridization contribute? What critical reflection do new manifestations of digital creations in networks offer us? What are the new relations between creation and dissention? Key words: Artistic creation, Art History, Criticism, Aesthetics, Anthropology, Communication Theory, Latin America, curatorship, networked art, Web 2.0, semantic web, amateurism, software art, Blog-art, metaverses, 3D social networks, online activism, flash mobs, politicized “swarming”, etc. More info and paper submission form: http://medialab-prado.es/article/3er_encuentro_inclusiva-net_convocatoria_para_presentar_comunicaciones_ Contact: inclusiva2009 [at] medialab-prado.es Organizer: Medialab-Prado *MEDIALAB-PRADO* Plaza de las Letras C/ Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid (Spain) +34 913 692 303 www.medialab-prado.es From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 10 16:20:31 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:50:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600> From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr> > December 08, 2008> > When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr> > Ruchira Paul> > http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html> > > Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid> al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year,> December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament> and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect.> > I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American> documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few> months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/> Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the> Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to> describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little> known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for> decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose.> > The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls> from practically every part of India belonging to several different> linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi> and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral> homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In> middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the> Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's> family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the> partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said.> We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales> from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story> acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in> Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in> particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the> remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not> a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin.> > My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more> communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They,> along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to> commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in> the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle> among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following:> > > > Wah Dutt Sultan,> > Hindu ka Dharam> > Musalman ka Iman,> > > > Wah Dutt Sultan> > Adha Hindu Adha Musalman> > > > [Oh, Dutt the king,> > follows the religion of the Hindu> > And the faith of the Muslim.> > > > Oh, Dutt the king,> > He is half Hindu, half Muslim.]> > > > I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way.> Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of> today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a> few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and> psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides> of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there> probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling> communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and> alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and> Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in> concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat> flowery text:> > > > The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim> Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation> Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage,> some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an> ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal> identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the> logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so,> these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled> the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition,> or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it> was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same> time.> > > > I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the> complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved> simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of> food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious> celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a> powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and> revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present> mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also> many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model> for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus.> > > > Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to> rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Searching for the best deals on travel? Visit MSN Travel. http://in.msn.com/coxandkings From turbulence at turbulence.org Wed Dec 10 01:32:12 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:02:12 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "Recollecting Adams" by Marianne R. Petit Message-ID: <01ab01c95a39$08210ff0$18632fd0$@org> Turbulence Commission: "Recollecting Adams" by Marianne R. Petit http://turbulence.org/works/recollecting/ "Recollecting Adams" is a 25-part web-based animation series that will conclude in December 2009. A new episode will launch every two weeks. The people of Adams, Massachusetts are gifted storytellers. We learned that in our first few weeks here. When they enter the gallery, they tell us about how they bought gloves when the storefront was Pociask's Dress Shop, or how they took guitar and accordion lessons when it was La Flemme's Music Store. And this is just inside the building. When we're standing outside, we hear tales of Summer Street and the town. People in Adams really know its history and love sharing it. They weave their personal family stories into a rich history of immigration, the mills, the Church and more, across several generations. - Marianne Petit "Recollecting Adams" is a 2008 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts. "Recollecting Adams" is part of "Networked Realities: (Re)Connecting the Adamses" -- a collaboration between Greylock Arts, Turbulence.org and MCLA Gallery51-- which includes four commissioned works housed in the Department of Public Works at www.newadams.es. BIOGRAPHY Marianne R. Petit is an Associate Arts Professor at New York University's Interactive Telecommunications Program where she teaches courses in digital media, animation and storytelling, in addition to overseeing the assistive technology and social justice curriculum. She is the co-director of Greylock Arts, a non-commercial arts space located in the Northern Berkshires, dedicated to the intersection between art and technology. Her artwork has appeared internationally in festivals and exhibitions as well as broadcast on the Independent Film Channel. Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Wed Dec 10 01:34:08 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:04:08 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "Domain of Mount Greylock | Video Portal" by David Lachman Message-ID: <01ac01c95a39$4bfa4b60$e3eee220$@org> Turbulence Commission: "Domain of Mount Greylock | Video Portal" by David Lachman http://turbulence.org/works/domainofmountgreylock/ Adams and North Adams sit at the base of Mount Greylock, the highest point in Massachusetts. It is their unifying landmark and, according to local Indian legend, a spiritual beacon. A drawing of the landscape is used as the organizing structure for a series of embedded video clips. Seeded with videos by the artist, the domain is now open to everyone (artists, citizens, kids). Submissions should be relatively short and can be video art, documentary, animation, personal stories related to place, family histories, short film, experimental, or anything else. A united portrait of the towns, their people, and their history will be created by many voices contributing to the domain. "Domain of Mount Greylock--Video Portal" is a 2008 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts. "Domain of Mount Greylock--Video Portal" is part of "Networked Realities: (Re)Connecting the Adamses" -- a collaboration between Greylock Arts, Turbulence.org and MCLA Gallery51-- which includes four commissioned works housed in the Department of Public Works at www.newadams.es. BIOGRAPHY David Lachman earned his MFA in painting from Northwestern University and an undergraduate degree in Art and Art History from Oberlin College. He is an interdisciplinary artist who currently works primarily in Film/Video, Installation, and Painting/Drawing. Lachman lives in Massachusetts where he works as a studio assistant for the painter Stephen Hannock. He was a Massachusetts Cultural Council Artists Grant Program Finalist in Sculpture/Installation Art in 2007. His work has been supported by grants from the Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs, the Northwestern University Center for Interdisciplinary Research in the Arts, and the Pittsfield Cultural Council, and has been exhibited at museums, galleries and alternative venues in over 20 countries on 6 continents, including the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Italy, Iceland, Israel, Argentina, Brazil, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Bangladesh, Germany, Greece, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Spain, the Russian Federation, the Czech Republic, Austria, Alaska, Texas, the Republic of Albania, and the Amundson-Scott South Pole Station, Antarctica. Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From difusion at medialab-prado.es Wed Dec 10 16:09:06 2008 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:39:06 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Call for Papers> INCLUSIVA-NET: NET.ART. THE EVOLUTION OF ARTISTIC CREATION IN THE NET-SYSTEM Message-ID: <493F9C4A.8050403@medialab-prado.es> :: Please spread this call for entries - thanks! :: CALL FOR PAPERS * 3rd INCLUSIVA-NET MEETING: NET.ART. THE EVOLUTION OF ARTISTIC CREATION IN THE NET-SYSTEM International Seminar * Deadline for entries: *January 12 , 2009 * Dates of the event: *March 2 - 6, 2009* at the Cultural Center of Spain in Buenos Aires (Argentina) Open call for papers to be presented within the context of this third meeting of the Inclusiva-net platform. This edition aims to develop an analysis of the current situation of artistic practices on the web from various theoretical and critical perspectives. It includes seminars, debate sessions, and lectures of papers chosen from this public call. Many topics will be addressed including questions such as: Can we speak of a second epoch in net.art? What do the new art forms based on on/off-line hybridization contribute? What critical reflection do new manifestations of digital creations in networks offer us? What are the new relations between creation and dissention? Key words: Artistic creation, Art History, Criticism, Aesthetics, Anthropology, Communication Theory, Latin America, curatorship, networked art, Web 2.0, semantic web, amateurism, software art, Blog-art, metaverses, 3D social networks, online activism, flash mobs, politicized “swarming”, etc. More info and paper submission form: http://medialab-prado.es/article/3er_encuentro_inclusiva-net_convocatoria_para_presentar_comunicaciones_ Contact: inclusiva2009 [at] medialab-prado.es Organizer: Medialab-Prado *MEDIALAB-PRADO* Plaza de las Letras C/ Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid (Spain) +34 913 692 303 www.medialab-prado.es -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Dec 10 16:44:24 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:14:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India? In-Reply-To: <997752.20258.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <997752.20258.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yah,these very TV presentors are responsible for having facilitated the political makeover of the Kashmiri pan Islamist separatists.No questions were asked even when the terror commanders publically claimed of having received training & arms in Pakistan.It was only during the recent uproar in Kashmir by the vested interests against the land transfer for temporary facilities along Amarnath pilgrimage route that Barkha Dutt admitted that the 'forced exodus of Kashmiri Hindu pandits from the valley was the most brutal form of human rights violation'. Regards LA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:27:19 -0800> From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India?> > Read this interesting critique of TV coverage of the attacks in Mumbai...> > Date: Nov 29, 2008 10:48 PM> Subject: Media terror> To: Chennai group > Cc: IHRO > > Hotel Taj: Icon of whose India?> > Gnani Sankaran- Tamil writer, Chennai.> > Watching at least four English news channels, surfing from one another during the last 60 hours of terror strike made me feel a terror of another kind, the terror of assaulting one's mind and sensitivity with cameras, sound bites and non-stop blabbers. All these channels have been trying to manufacture my consent for a big lie called - Hotel Taj the icon of India.> > Whose India, Whose Icon?> > It is a matter of great shame that these channels simply did not bother about the other icon that faced the first attack from terrorists - the Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST) railway station. CST is the true icon of Mumbai. It is through this railway station hundreds of Indians from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Rajasthan, West Bengal and Tamilnadu have poured into Mumbai over the years, transforming themselves into Mumbaikars and built the Mumbai of today along with the Marathis and Kolis> > But the channels would not recognise this. Nor would they recognise the thirty odd dead bodies strewn all over the platform of CST. No Barkha Dutt went there to tell us who they were. But she was at Taj to show us the damaged furniture and reception lobby braving the guards. And the TV cameras did not go to the government run JJ hospital to find out who those 26 unidentified bodies were. Instead they were again invading the battered Taj to try in vain for a scoop shot of the dead bodies of the page 3 celebrities.> > In all probability, the unidentified bodies could be those of workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh migrating to Mumbai, arriving by train at CST without cell phones and pan cards to identify them. Even after 60 hours after the CST massacre, no channel has bothered to cover in detail what transpired there.> > The channels conveniently failed to acknowledge that the Aam Aadmis of India surviving in Mumbai were not affected by Taj, Oberoi and Trident closing down for a couple of weeks or months. What mattered to them was the stoppage of BEST buses and suburban trains even for one hour. But the channels were not covering that aspect of the terror attack. Such information at best merited a scroll line, while the cameras have to be dedicated for real time thriller unfolding at Taj or Nariman Bhavan.> > > > The so called justification for the hype the channels built around heritage site Taj falling down (CST is also a heritage site), is that Hotel Taj is where the rich and the powerful of India and the globe congregate. It is a symbol or icon of power of money and politics, not India. It is the icon of the financiers and swindlers of India. The Mumbai and India were built by the Aam Aadmis who passed through CST and Taj was the oasis of peace and privacy for those who wielded power over these mass of labouring classes. Leopold club and Taj were the haunts of rich spoilt kids who would drive their vehicles over sleeping Aam Aadmis on the pavement, the Mafiosi of Mumbai forever financing the glitterati of Bollywood (and also the terrorists) , Political brokers and industrialists. > > It is precisely because Taj is the icon of power and not people that the terrorists chose to strike.> The terrorists have understood after several efforts that the Aam Aadmi will never break down even if you bomb her markets and trains. He/she was resilient because that is the only way he/she can even survive.> > Resilience was another word that annoyed the pundits of news channels and their patrons this time. What resilience, enough is enough, said Pranoy Roy's channel on the left side of the channel spectrum. Same sentiments were echoed by Arnab Goswami representing the right wing of the broadcast media whose time is now. Can Rajdeep be far behind in this game of one-upmanship over TRPs ? They all attacked resilience this time. They wanted firm action from the government in tackling terror.> > The same channels celebrated resilience when bombs went off in trains and markets killing and maiming the Aam Aadmis. The resilience of the ordinary worker suited the rich business class of Mumbai since work or manufacture or film shooting did not stop. When it came to them, the rich shamelessly exhibited their lack of nerves and refused to be resilient themselves. They cry for government intervention now to protect their private spas and swimming pools and bars and restaurants, similar to the way in which Citibank, General Motors and the ilk cry for government money when their coffers are emptied by their own ideologies.> > The terrorists have learnt that the ordinary Indian is unperturbed by terror. For one whose daily existence itself is a terror of government sponsored inflation and market sponsored exclusion, pain is something he has learnt to live with. The rich of Mumbai and India Inc are facing the pain for the first time and learning about it just as the middle classes of India learnt about violation of human rights only during emergency, a cool 28 years after independence.> > And human rights were another favourite issue for the channels to whip at times of terrorism.> Arnab Goswami in an animated voice wondered where were those champions of human rights now, not to be seen applauding the brave and selfless police officers who gave up their life in fighting terrorism. Well, the counter question would be where were you when such officers were violating the human rights of Aam Aadmis. Has there ever been any 24 hour non stop coverage of violence against dalits and adivasis of this country? > This definitely was not the time to manufacture consent for the extra legal and third degree methods of interrogation of police and army but Arnabs don't miss a single opportunity to serve their class masters, this time the jingoistic patriotism came in handy to whitewash the entire uniformed services.> > The sacrifice of the commandos or the police officers who went down dying at the hands of ruthless terrorists is no doubt heart rending but in vain in a situation which needed not just bran but also brain. Israel has a point when it says the operations were misplanned resulting in the death of its nationals here.> > Kakares and Salaskars would not be dead if they did not commit the mistake of travelling by the same vehicle. It is a basic lesson in management that the top brass should never travel together in crisis. The terrorists, if only they had watched the channels, would have laughed their hearts out when the Chief of the Marine commandos, an elite force, masking his face so unprofessionally in a see-through cloth, told the media that the commandos had no idea about the structure of the Hotel Taj which they were trying to liberate. But the terrorists knew the place thoroughly, he acknowledged.> > Is it so difficult to obtain a ground plan of Hotel Taj and discuss operation strategy thoroughly for at least one hour before entering? This is something even an event manager would first ask for, if he had to fix 25 audio systems and 50 CCtvs for a cultural event in a hotel. Would not Ratan Tata have provided a plan of his ancestral hotel to the commandos within one hour considering the mighty apparatus at his and government's disposal? Are satellite pictures only available for terrorists and not the government agencies? In an operation known to consume time, one more hour for preparation would have only improved the efficiency of execution.> > Sacrifices become doubly tragic in unprofessional circumstances. But the Aam Aadmis always believe that terror-shooters do better planning than terrorists. And the gullible media in a jingoistic mood would not raise any question about any of these issues. They after all have their favourite whipping boy – the politician the eternal entertainer for the non-voting rich classes of India.> > Arnabs and Rajdeeps would wax eloquent on Manmohan Singh and Advani visiting Mumbai separately and not together showing solidarity even at this hour of national crisis. What a farce? Why can't these channels pool together all their camera crew and reporters at this time of national calamity and share the sound and visual bites which could mean a wider and deeper coverage of events with such a huge> human resource to command? Why should Arnab and Rajdeep and Barkha keep harping every five minutes that this piece of information was exclusive to their channel, at the time of such a national crisis? Is this the time to promote the channel? If that is valid, the politician promoting his own political constituency is equally valid. And the duty of the politician is to do politics, his politics. It is for the people to evaluate that politics.> > > > And terrorism is not above politics. It is politics by other means. To come to grips with it and to eventually eliminate it, the practice of politics by proper means needs constant fine tuning and improvement. Decrying all politics and politicians, only helps terrorists and dictators who are the two sides of the same coin. And the rich and powerful always prefer terrorists and dictators to do business with.> > Those caught in this crossfire are always the Aam Aadmis whose deaths are not even mourned - the taxi driver who lost the entire family at CST firing, the numerous waiters and stewards who lost their lives working in Taj for a monthly salary that would be one time bill for their masters.> > Postscript: In a fit of anger and depression, I sent a message to all the channels, 30 hours through the coverage. After all they have been constantly asking the viewers to message them for anything and everything. My message read: I send this with lots of pain. All channels, including yours, must apologise for not covering the victims of CST massacre, the real mumbaikars and aam aadmis of India. Your obsession with five star elite is disgusting. Learn from the print media please. No channel bothered. Only srinivasan Jain replied: you are right. We are trying to redress balance today. Well, nothing happened till the time of writing this 66 hours after the terror attack.> > > > Vijaya Chauhan.> 84, Olympus, MM Chotani Marg,Mahim> Mumbai 400016. +919820236267> > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://in.msn.com/matrimony From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 17:10:21 2008 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:40:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins Message-ID: <418f44e20812100340h66edd51dm110c59e8b55f5218@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ali Usman Qasmi Date: 2008/12/10 Subject: Re: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: prabhat kumar , Shoumen Thanks for the link. Following is an article by Intizar Hussain, the best known Urdu novelist of our times. I came to know about the Hussaini Brahmins from his article. COLUMN: Brahmans in Karbala By Intizar Husain LITERARY NOTES The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. WITH the arrival of Muharram this year, I was reminded of an encounter I had with an unusual, intelligent girl in Delhi who asserted that she was a Husaini Brahman. I recall referring to Prem Chand's play 'Karbala' in one of my addresses, which was based on a legend. The legend was about a group of eight Hindu brothers who had somehow reached Karbala determined to die fighting for the cause that Imam Husain stood for. They fought bravely and sacrificed their lives in devotion to Imam Husain. It was in this context that I was talking about Husaini Brahmans, who seemed to have vanished from the social scene in India. All of a sudden, a girl from among the audience stood up and challenged my statement. She said, 'Here I am before you. My name is Nonica Dutt. I belong to a Husaini Brahman family.' It was clearly a pleasant surprise for me, something like discovering a rare bird while walking through a jungle. The girl promised me an exclusive meeting to enlighten me with interesting information about the Husaini Brahmanian background of her family. But the proposed meeting kept on being postponed for one reason or the other. Finally, on the last day of my stay in Delhi, I received a call from her. 'Let us meet now,' she said 'But I have no evening to spare for you. Today is the last day of my stay in your city,' I said. 'But I am already in the lounge and I must meet you,' she said. So we finally had a meeting. She entered my room with two large volumes under her arm. I proposed a detailed sitting on my next visit, which was due after a month or so. 'But in the coming months, I will not be in Delhi. I am moving to Germany and will spend four months at the Humboldt University.' Nonica Dutt taught history at Jawahar Lal University and had been honoured with a fellowship from the Humboldt University. Hence she was on her way to Germany. 'I,' she said, 'told my mother about your comments regarding Husaini Brahamans and how I introduced myself as one. To that she said, did you tell him that we don't perform the rituals the Brahmans are obliged to perform. That we don't go to the temples?' 'Should I presume from this,' I asked, 'that you have turned Muslim.' 'No, we are not Muslims,' she exclaimed. 'Then what are you?' I inquired. 'We are Husaini Brahmans,' she said with a certain sense of pride and added, 'Now, I will tell you about a sign each and every Husaini Brahman carries with him/her. On his/her throat s/he bears a line of cutting, which is indicative of the fact that s/he is the descendant of those Brahmans whose throats were cut in the battle of Karbala.' Then she told me about the ritual carried out on the birth of every child in her family. She said, 'Among Brahmans, after child birth, the ritual of Moondan is performed. In our family this ritual is performed in the name of Imam Husain.' She then went on to tell me the historical facts. 'I will now tell you about the history of our martyred forefathers.' Pointing to the two books placed on the table she said, 'our entire history is conserved within these two books. When needed, I will quote from them.' Considering their worn out and pale pages, the books, which were written in English, seemed to be centuries old. The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. From Karbala he escaped to Kufa, where he stayed for some time. It is said that Rahib had the privilege of meeting the members of the Imam's family after the massacre. He introduced himself by saying, 'I am a Brahman from Hindustan.' The reply came, 'Now you are Husaini Brahman. We will always remember you.' Rahib went from Kufa to Afghanistan, and from there came back to India where he stayed for a few days in Nankana. Nonica paused for a while and then spoke, 'In the Sialkot district there is a town known as Viran Vatan. That place is our ancestral home. We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans.' Nonica shut the book and said 'Let me inform you that Sunil Dutt was also a Husaini Brahman. And the father of Nargis too was a Husaini Brahman.' She got up saying 'Now I must go.' 'I think,' I said, 'after you return from Germany, I should make a point to come to Delhi so that you can introduce me to your father. I will perhaps be able to know much more about your ancestors from him.' She said goodbye and left hurriedly. I had been under the impression that the story of the eight Brahmins was just a legend. But Nonica firmly believed that it is a historical fact. And it is the belief of Nonica and her community that really counts. For them the event is a reality. --- On *Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar * wrote: From: prabhat kumar Subject: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: "Ali Usman Qasmi" , "soumen mukherjee" < soumenm.2 at gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 4:21 PM I found something coincidentally on Hussaini-Dutt Brahmins in reader list of SARAI, CSDS!! Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600 From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 December 08, 2008 When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr Ruchira Paul http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls from practically every part of India belonging to several different linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: Wah Dutt Sultan, Hindu ka Dharam Musalman ka Iman, Wah Dutt Sultan Adha Hindu Adha Musalman [Oh, Dutt the king, follows the religion of the Hindu And the faith of the Muslim. Oh, Dutt the king, He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat flowery text: The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so, these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same time. I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. ------------------------------ -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 20:02:30 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:32:30 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr References: Message-ID: <609634D331A041E2A15F00BC7FC9E088@tara> Eid mubarak to all. What comes to mind is that whereas Muslims decided to tone down their Eid celebration due to Mumbai carnage, the politicians from two major parties showed no such restraint while celebrating their victories in the state legislative assemblies. I wonder who needs to prove their patriotism. Not Muslims for sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:16 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr > December 08, 2008 > > When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr > > Ruchira Paul > > http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html > > > Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid > al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, > December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament > and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. > > I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American > documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few > months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ > Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the > Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to > describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little > known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for > decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. > > The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls > from practically every part of India belonging to several different > linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi > and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral > homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In > middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the > Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's > family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the > partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. > We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales > from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story > acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in > Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in > particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the > remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not > a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. > > My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more > communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, > along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to > commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in > the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle > among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: > > > > Wah Dutt Sultan, > > Hindu ka Dharam > > Musalman ka Iman, > > > > Wah Dutt Sultan > > Adha Hindu Adha Musalman > > > > [Oh, Dutt the king, > > follows the religion of the Hindu > > And the faith of the Muslim. > > > > Oh, Dutt the king, > > He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] > > > > I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. > Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of > today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a > few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and > psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides > of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there > probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling > communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and > alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and > Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in > concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat > flowery text: > > > > The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim > Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation > Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, > some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an > ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal > identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the > logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so, > these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled > the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, > or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it > was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same > time. > > > > I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the > complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved > simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of > food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious > celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a > powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and > revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present > mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also > many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model > for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. > > > > Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to > rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 20:17:42 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:47:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <418f44e20812100340h66edd51dm110c59e8b55f5218@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <306351.16679.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Interesting comment by Nonica Dutt the "Hussaini Brahmin" has been quoted by Intizar Hussain in his article. She says:   """"""" We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans. """""   This would totally shake up the edifice of the  'organised sectarian religious divides' amongst the Muslims of Kashmir and especially lead to unimaginable conflict between the Sunnis and Shias.   The Muslims of Kashmir have their faith firmly invested in the belief that the 'ensconced hair' in the Hazratbal 'shrine' is from (the beard or head) of Mohammed the Last Prophet for Muslims. For someone to suggest that the 'hair' is of Imam Hussain would be considered sacrilegious.Blasphemous perhaps.   Also that Hazratbal as an institution is under Sunni control. Imam Husaain is not the most favourite of persons for the Sunnis even if he was the grandson of Mohammed (through his daughter Fatima and Ali the Fourth Khalifa).   Ali (the father of Hussain) is considered by Shias as the First Imam and rightful inheritor of Mohammed's worldly empire. They consider the first three Khalifas to be usurpers who stole from Ali his right of being the First Khalifa.   Some ideological elements amongst Shias have even a more extreme viewpoint about what Ali's position in Islam should be (in comparison to Mohammed).      The Battle of Karbala where Hussain was killed is a significant happening in the divide between Shias and Sunnis with Hussain on  the opposite side of the allegiances for the Muaviyah and Yazeed. The Battle of Karbala (arguably) concretised the separation between the Sunni and Shia sects   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar wrote: From: prabhat kumar Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:10 PM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ali Usman Qasmi Date: 2008/12/10 Subject: Re: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: prabhat kumar , Shoumen Thanks for the link. Following is an article by Intizar Hussain, the best known Urdu novelist of our times. I came to know about the Hussaini Brahmins from his article. COLUMN: Brahmans in Karbala By Intizar Husain LITERARY NOTES The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. WITH the arrival of Muharram this year, I was reminded of an encounter I had with an unusual, intelligent girl in Delhi who asserted that she was a Husaini Brahman. I recall referring to Prem Chand's play 'Karbala' in one of my addresses, which was based on a legend. The legend was about a group of eight Hindu brothers who had somehow reached Karbala determined to die fighting for the cause that Imam Husain stood for. They fought bravely and sacrificed their lives in devotion to Imam Husain. It was in this context that I was talking about Husaini Brahmans, who seemed to have vanished from the social scene in India. All of a sudden, a girl from among the audience stood up and challenged my statement. She said, 'Here I am before you. My name is Nonica Dutt. I belong to a Husaini Brahman family.' It was clearly a pleasant surprise for me, something like discovering a rare bird while walking through a jungle. The girl promised me an exclusive meeting to enlighten me with interesting information about the Husaini Brahmanian background of her family. But the proposed meeting kept on being postponed for one reason or the other. Finally, on the last day of my stay in Delhi, I received a call from her. 'Let us meet now,' she said 'But I have no evening to spare for you. Today is the last day of my stay in your city,' I said. 'But I am already in the lounge and I must meet you,' she said. So we finally had a meeting. She entered my room with two large volumes under her arm. I proposed a detailed sitting on my next visit, which was due after a month or so. 'But in the coming months, I will not be in Delhi. I am moving to Germany and will spend four months at the Humboldt University.' Nonica Dutt taught history at Jawahar Lal University and had been honoured with a fellowship from the Humboldt University. Hence she was on her way to Germany. 'I,' she said, 'told my mother about your comments regarding Husaini Brahamans and how I introduced myself as one. To that she said, did you tell him that we don't perform the rituals the Brahmans are obliged to perform. That we don't go to the temples?' 'Should I presume from this,' I asked, 'that you have turned Muslim.' 'No, we are not Muslims,' she exclaimed. 'Then what are you?' I inquired. 'We are Husaini Brahmans,' she said with a certain sense of pride and added, 'Now, I will tell you about a sign each and every Husaini Brahman carries with him/her. On his/her throat s/he bears a line of cutting, which is indicative of the fact that s/he is the descendant of those Brahmans whose throats were cut in the battle of Karbala.' Then she told me about the ritual carried out on the birth of every child in her family. She said, 'Among Brahmans, after child birth, the ritual of Moondan is performed. In our family this ritual is performed in the name of Imam Husain.' She then went on to tell me the historical facts. 'I will now tell you about the history of our martyred forefathers.' Pointing to the two books placed on the table she said, 'our entire history is conserved within these two books. When needed, I will quote from them.' Considering their worn out and pale pages, the books, which were written in English, seemed to be centuries old. The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. From Karbala he escaped to Kufa, where he stayed for some time. It is said that Rahib had the privilege of meeting the members of the Imam's family after the massacre. He introduced himself by saying, 'I am a Brahman from Hindustan.' The reply came, 'Now you are Husaini Brahman. We will always remember you.' Rahib went from Kufa to Afghanistan, and from there came back to India where he stayed for a few days in Nankana. Nonica paused for a while and then spoke, 'In the Sialkot district there is a town known as Viran Vatan. That place is our ancestral home. We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans.' Nonica shut the book and said 'Let me inform you that Sunil Dutt was also a Husaini Brahman. And the father of Nargis too was a Husaini Brahman.' She got up saying 'Now I must go.' 'I think,' I said, 'after you return from Germany, I should make a point to come to Delhi so that you can introduce me to your father. I will perhaps be able to know much more about your ancestors from him.' She said goodbye and left hurriedly. I had been under the impression that the story of the eight Brahmins was just a legend. But Nonica firmly believed that it is a historical fact. And it is the belief of Nonica and her community that really counts. For them the event is a reality. --- On *Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar * wrote: From: prabhat kumar Subject: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: "Ali Usman Qasmi" , "soumen mukherjee" < soumenm.2 at gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 4:21 PM I found something coincidentally on Hussaini-Dutt Brahmins in reader list of SARAI, CSDS!! Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600 From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 December 08, 2008 When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr Ruchira Paul http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls from practically every part of India belonging to several different linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: Wah Dutt Sultan, Hindu ka Dharam Musalman ka Iman, Wah Dutt Sultan Adha Hindu Adha Musalman [Oh, Dutt the king, follows the religion of the Hindu And the faith of the Muslim. Oh, Dutt the king, He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat flowery text: The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so, these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same time. I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. ------------------------------ -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From the.solipsist at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 21:54:34 2008 From: the.solipsist at gmail.com (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:54:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Death of a salesman and other elite ironies: Tarun J Tejpal In-Reply-To: <70d101c95aae$d060e470$ed59c8cb@tehelka> References: <70d101c95aae$d060e470$ed59c8cb@tehelka> Message-ID: <4785f1e20812100824s54056f30kdae73a4dd246d537@mail.gmail.com> From this week's Tehelka. Comments appended after the piece. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 15:35 Death of a salesman and other elite ironies: Tarun J Tejpal ________________________________ Rohinton Maloo was shot doing two things he enjoyed immensely. Eating good food and tossing new ideas. He was among the 13 diners at the Kandahar, Trident-Oberoi, who were marched out onto the service staircase, ostensibly as hostages. But the killers had nothing to bargain for. The answers to the big questions — Babri Masjid, Gujarat, Muslim persecution — were beyond the power of anyone to deliver neatly to the hotel lobby. The small ones — of money and materialism — their crazed indoctrination had already taken them well beyond. With the final banality of all fanaticism, flaunting the paradox of modern technology and medieval fervour — AK-47 in one hand; mobile phone in the other — the killers asked their minders, "Udan dein?" The minder, probably a maintainer of cold statistics, said, "Uda do." Rohinton caught seven bullets, and by the time his body was recovered, it could only be identified by the ring on his finger. Rohinton was just 48, with two teenage children, and a hundred plans. A few of these had to do with TEHELKA, where he was a strategic advisor for the last two years. As Indians, we seldom have a good word to say about the living, but in the dead we discover virtues that strain the imagination. Perhaps it has to do with a strange mix of driving envy and blinding piety. Let me just say Rohinton was charismatic, ambitious, and a man of his time, and place. The time was always now, and in his outstanding career in media marketing, he was ever at the cutting edge of the new — in the creation of Star Networks, and a score of ventures on the web. The place was always Mumbai, the city he grew up in and lived in, and he exemplified its attitudes: the hedonism, the get-go, the easy pluralism. For me there is a deep irony in his death. He was killed by what he set very little store by. In his every meeting with us, he was bemused and baffled by TEHELKA's obsessive engagement with politics. He was quite sure no one of his class — our class — was interested in the subject. Politics happened elsewhere, a regrettable business carried out by unsavoury characters. Mostly, it had nothing to do with our lives. Eventually, sitting through our political ranting, he came to grudgingly accept we may have some kind of a case. But he remained unconvinced of its commercial viability. Our kind of readers were interested in other things, which were germane to their lives — food, films, cricket, fashion, gizmos, television, health and the strategies of seduction. Politics, at best, was something they endured. In the end, politics killed Rohinton, and a few hundred other innocents. In the final count, politics, every single day, is killing, impoverishing, starving, denigrating, millions of Indians all across the country. If the backdrop were not so heartbreaking, the spectacle of the nation's elite — the keepers of most of our wealth and privilege — frothing on television screens and screaming through mobile phones would be amusing. They have been outraged because the enduring tragedy of India has suddenly arrived in their marbled precincts. The Taj, the Oberoi. We dine here. We sleep here. Is nothing sacrosanct in this country any more? What the Indian elite is discovering today on the debris of fancy eateries is an acidic truth large numbers of ordinary Indians are forced to swallow every day. Children who die of malnutrition, farmers who commit suicide, dalits who are raped and massacred, tribals who are turfed out of centuryold habitats, peasants whose lands are taken over for car factories, minorities who are bludgeoned into paranoia — these, and many others, know that something is grossly wrong. The system does not work, the system is cruel, the system is unjust, the system exists to only serve those who run it. Crucially, what we, the elite, need to understand is that most of us are complicit in the system. In fact, chances are the more we have — of privilege and money — the more invested we are in the shoring up of an unfair state. It is time each one of us understood that at the heart of every society is its politics. If the politics is third-rate, the condition of the society will be no better. For too many decades now, the elite of India has washed its hands off the country's politics. Entire generations have grown up viewing it as a distasteful activity. In an astonishing perversion, the finest imaginative act of the last thousand years on the subcontinent, the creation and flowering of the idea of modern India through mass politics, has for the last 40 years been rendered infra dig, déclassé, uncool. Let us blame our parents, and let our children blame us, for not bequeathing onwards the sheer beauty of a collective vision, collective will, and collective action. In a word, politics: which, at its best, created the wonder of a liberal and democratic idea, and at its worst threatens to tear it down. We stand faulted then in two ways. For turning our back on the collective endeavour; and for our passive embrace of the status quo. This is in equal parts due to selfish instinct and to shallow thinking. Since shining India is basically only about us getting an even greater share of the pie, we have been happy to buy its half-truths, and look away from the rest of the sordid story. Like all elites, historically, that have presided over the decline of their societies, we focus too much of our energy on acquiring and consuming, and too little on thinking and decoding. Egged on by a helium media, we exhaust ourselves through paroxysms over vacant celebrities and trivia, quite happy not to see what might cause us discomfort. For years, it has been evident that we are a society being systematically hollowed out by inequality, corruption, bigotry and lack of justice. The planks of public discourse have increasingly been divisive, widening the faultlines of caste, language, religion, class, community and region. As the elite of the most complex society in the world, we have failed to see that we are ratcheted into an intricate framework, full of causal links, where one wrong word begets another, one horrific event leads to another. Where one man's misery will eventually trigger another's. Let's track one causal chain. The Congress creates Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale to neutralise the Akalis; Bhindranwale creates terrorism; Indira Gandhi moves against terrorism; terrorism assassinates Indira Gandhi; blameless Sikhs are slaughtered in Delhi; in the course of a decade, numberless innocents, militants, and securitymen die. Let's track another. The BJP takes out an inflammatory rath yatra; inflamed kar sewaks pull down the Babri Masjid; riots ensue; vengeful Muslims trigger Mumbai blasts; 10 years later a bogey of kar sewaks is burnt in Gujarat; in the next week 2,000 Muslims are slaughtered; six years later retaliatory violence continues. Let's track one more. In the early 1940s, in the midst of the freedom movement, patrician Muslims demand a separate homeland; Mahatma Gandhi opposes it; the British support it; Partition ensues; a million people are slaughtered; four wars follow; two countries drain each other through rhetoric and poison; nuclear arsenals are built; hotels in Mumbai are attacked. In each of these rough causal chains, there is one thing in common. Their origin in the decisions of the elite. Interlaced with numberless lines of potential divisiveness, the India framework is highly delicate and complicated. It is critical for the elite to understand the framework, and its role in it. The elite has its hands on the levers of capital, influence and privilege. It can fix the framework. It has much to give, and it must give generously. The mass, with nothing in its hands, nothing to give, can out of frustration and anger, only pull it all down. And when the volcano blows, rich and poor burn alike. And so what should we be doing? Well, screaming at politicians is certainly not political engagement. And airy socialites demanding the carpet-bombing of Pakistan and the boycott of taxes are plain absurd, just another neon sign advertising shallow thought. It's the kind of dumb public theatre the media ought to deftly side-step rather than showcase. The world is already over-shrill with animus: we need to tone it down, not add to it. Pakistan is itself badly damaged by the flawed politics at its heart. It needs help, not bombing. Just remember, when hardboiled bureaucrats clench their teeth, little children die. Most of the shouting of the last few days is little more than personal catharsis through public venting. The fact is the politician has been doing what we have been doing, and as an über Indian he has been doing it much better. Watching out for himself, cornering maximum resource, and turning away from the challenge of the greater good. The first thing we need to do is to square up to the truth. Acknowledge the fact that we have made a fair shambles of the project of nation-building. Fifty million Indians doing well does not for a great India make, given that 500 million are grovelling to survive. Sixty years after independence, it can safely be said that India's political leadership — and the nation's elite — have badly let down the country's dispossessed and wretched. If you care to look, India today is heartbreak hotel, where infants die like flies, and equal opportunity is a cruel mirage. Let's be clear we are not in a crisis because the Taj hotel was gutted. We are in a crisis because six years after 2,000 Muslims were slaughtered in Gujarat there is still no sign of justice. This is the second thing the elite need to understand — after the obscenity of gross inequality. The plinth of every society — since the beginning of Man — has been set on the notion of justice. You cannot light candles for just those of your class and creed. You have to strike a blow for every wronged citizen. And let no one tell us we need more laws. We need men to implement those that we have. Today all our institutions and processes are failing us. We have compromised each of them on their values, their robustness, their vision and their sense of fairplay. Now, at every crucial juncture we depend on random acts of individual excellence and courage to save the day. Great systems, triumphant societies, are veined with ladders of inspiration. Electrified by those above them, men strive to do their very best. Look around. How many constables, head constables, sub-inspectors would risk their lives for the dishonest, weak men they serve, who in turn serve even more compromised masters? I wish Rohinton had survived the lottery of death in Mumbai last week. In an instant, he would have understood what we always went on about. India's crying need is not economic tinkering or social engineering. It is a political overhaul, a political cleansing. As it once did to create a free nation, India's elite should start getting its hands dirty so they can get a clean country. ----------- A disagreement. Mr. Tejpal says: "In each of these rough causal chains, there is one thing in common. Their origin in the decisions of the elite." That seems to me to be cyclical reasoning, since political decisions are taken by those in power, and those who possess power are the "elite". But, Mr. Tejpal seems to be talking of another kind of "elite", one that is not predicated on power. He seems to be be referring to those with money (or education, or the other things that come with it) as elites. A comment. Sentences like, "Let's be clear we are not in a crisis because the Taj hotel was gutted. We are in a crisis because six years after 2,000 Muslims were slaughtered in Gujarat there is still no sign of justice," don't help, since they are ambiguous and provide easy pickings for the ultra-right-wingers. I would argue that in addition to the deaths in Gujarat, examples like Bhopal and the State's treatment of adivasis were also mentioned in the same sentence as failures of justice. Drawing facile causal linkages should also be avoided, since they do more harm than good. A symptomatic and a systemic examination (such as that of justice), which Mr. Tejpal hints towards, I believe is much more fruitful an exercise. Regards, Pranesh From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 02:24:18 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:54:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <306351.16679.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <418f44e20812100340h66edd51dm110c59e8b55f5218@mail.gmail.com> <306351.16679.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all, Let me recall this story that I had read in Tribune,Chandigarh years ago---it said that the king Dutt went to fight in Karbala on the side of the Imam Hussain & was martyred in the battle there-descedents of the king are known as Hussaini Brahmans.The paper claimed that Late Sunil Dutt ( Mr. Sunil Dutt was alive then) was from the clan of Hussaini Brahmins. Human bondings have no bonds. Regards LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:47:42 -0800> From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins> > Interesting comment by Nonica Dutt the "Hussaini Brahmin" has been quoted by Intizar Hussain in his article. She says:> > """"""" We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans. """""> > This would totally shake up the edifice of the 'organised sectarian religious divides' amongst the Muslims of Kashmir and especially lead to unimaginable conflict between the Sunnis and Shias.> > The Muslims of Kashmir have their faith firmly invested in the belief that the 'ensconced hair' in the Hazratbal 'shrine' is from (the beard or head) of Mohammed the Last Prophet for Muslims. For someone to suggest that the 'hair' is of Imam Hussain would be considered sacrilegious.Blasphemous perhaps.> > Also that Hazratbal as an institution is under Sunni control. Imam Husaain is not the most favourite of persons for the Sunnis even if he was the grandson of Mohammed (through his daughter Fatima and Ali the Fourth Khalifa).> > Ali (the father of Hussain) is considered by Shias as the First Imam and rightful inheritor of Mohammed's worldly empire. They consider the first three Khalifas to be usurpers who stole from Ali his right of being the First Khalifa.> > Some ideological elements amongst Shias have even a more extreme viewpoint about what Ali's position in Islam should be (in comparison to Mohammed). > > The Battle of Karbala where Hussain was killed is a significant happening in the divide between Shias and Sunnis with Hussain on the opposite side of the allegiances for the Muaviyah and Yazeed. The Battle of Karbala (arguably) concretised the separation between the Sunni and Shia sects> > Kshmendra> > > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar wrote:> > From: prabhat kumar > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:10 PM> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------> From: Ali Usman Qasmi > Date: 2008/12/10> Subject: Re: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins> To: prabhat kumar , Shoumen> > > > Thanks for the link. Following is an article by Intizar Hussain, the best> known Urdu novelist of our times. I came to know about the Hussaini Brahmins> from his article.> > COLUMN: Brahmans in Karbala> By Intizar Husain> > > LITERARY NOTES> > The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten> Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam> Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and> resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a> heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle.> > WITH the arrival of Muharram this year, I was reminded of an encounter I had> with an unusual, intelligent girl in Delhi who asserted that she was a> Husaini Brahman. I recall referring to Prem Chand's play 'Karbala'> in one of> my addresses, which was based on a legend. The legend was about a group of> eight Hindu brothers who had somehow reached Karbala determined to die> fighting for the cause that Imam Husain stood for. They fought bravely and> sacrificed their lives in devotion to Imam Husain. It was in this context> that I was talking about Husaini Brahmans, who seemed to have vanished from> the social scene in India.> > All of a sudden, a girl from among the audience stood up and challenged my> statement. She said, 'Here I am before you. My name is Nonica Dutt. I> belong> to a Husaini Brahman family.' It was clearly a pleasant surprise for me,> something like discovering a rare bird while walking through a jungle.> > The girl promised me an exclusive meeting to enlighten me with interesting> information about the Husaini Brahmanian background of her family. But the> proposed meeting kept on being postponed for one reason or the other.> Finally, on the last day of my stay in Delhi, I received a call from her.> > 'Let us meet now,' she said> > 'But I have no evening to spare for you. Today is the last day of my stay> in> your city,' I said.> > 'But I am already in the lounge and I must meet you,' she said.> > So we finally had a meeting. She entered my room with two large volumes> under her arm. I proposed a detailed sitting on my next visit, which was due> after a month or so. 'But in the coming months, I will not be in Delhi. I> am> moving to Germany and will spend four months at the Humboldt University.'> Nonica Dutt taught history at Jawahar Lal University and had been honoured> with a fellowship from the Humboldt University. Hence she was on her way to> Germany.> > 'I,' she said, 'told my mother about your comments regarding> Husaini> Brahamans and how I introduced myself as one. To that she said, did you tell> him that we don't perform the rituals the Brahmans are obliged to perform.> That we don't go to the temples?'> > 'Should I presume from this,' I asked, 'that you have turned> Muslim.'> > 'No, we are not Muslims,' she exclaimed.> > 'Then what are you?' I inquired.> > 'We are Husaini Brahmans,' she said with a certain sense of pride and> added,> 'Now, I will tell you about a sign each and every Husaini Brahman carries> with him/her. On his/her throat s/he bears a line of cutting, which is> indicative of the fact that s/he is the descendant of those Brahmans whose> throats were cut in the battle of Karbala.' Then she told me about the> ritual carried out on the birth of every child in her family. She said,> 'Among Brahmans, after child birth, the ritual of Moondan is performed. In> our family this ritual is performed in the name of Imam Husain.'> > She then went on to tell me the historical facts. 'I will now tell you> about> the history of our martyred forefathers.' Pointing to the two books placed> on the table she said, 'our entire history is conserved within these two> books. When needed, I will quote from them.' Considering their worn out and> pale pages, the books, which were written in English, seemed to be centuries> old.> > The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten> Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam> Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and> resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a> heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. From Karbala he> escaped to Kufa, where he stayed for some time. It is said that Rahib had> the privilege of meeting the members of the Imam's family after the> massacre. He introduced himself by saying, 'I am a Brahman from> Hindustan.'> The reply came, 'Now you are Husaini Brahman. We will always remember> you.'> > Rahib went from Kufa to Afghanistan, and from there came back to India where> he stayed for a few days in Nankana. Nonica paused for a while and then> spoke, 'In the Sialkot district there is a town known as Viran Vatan. That> place is our ancestral home. We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had> brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal> shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had> brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These> couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans.'> > Nonica shut the book and said 'Let me inform you that Sunil Dutt was also a> Husaini Brahman. And the father of Nargis too was a Husaini Brahman.'> > She got up saying 'Now I must go.'> > 'I think,' I said, 'after you return from Germany, I should make a> point to> come to Delhi so that you can introduce me to your father. I will perhaps be> able to know much more about your ancestors from him.'> > She said goodbye and left hurriedly. I had been under the impression that> the story of the eight Brahmins was just a legend. But Nonica firmly> believed that it is a historical fact. And it is the belief of Nonica and> her community that really counts. For them the event is a reality.> > > > > --- On *Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar * wrote:> > From: prabhat kumar > Subject: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins> To: "Ali Usman Qasmi" , "soumen> mukherjee" <> soumenm.2 at gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 4:21 PM> > > I found something coincidentally on Hussaini-Dutt Brahmins in reader list of> SARAI, CSDS!!> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600> From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr> To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID:> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > December 08, 2008> > When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr> > Ruchira Paul> > http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html> > > Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid> al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year,> December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament> and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect.> > I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American> documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few> months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/> Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the> Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to> describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little> known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for> decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose.> > The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls> from practically every part of India belonging to several different> linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi> and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral> homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In> middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the> Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's> family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the> partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said.> We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales> from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story> acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in> Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in> particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the> remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not> a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin.> > My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more> communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They,> along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to> commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in> the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle> among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following:> > > > Wah Dutt Sultan,> > Hindu ka Dharam> > Musalman ka Iman,> > > > Wah Dutt Sultan> > Adha Hindu Adha Musalman> > > > [Oh, Dutt the king,> > follows the religion of the Hindu> > And the faith of the Muslim.> > > > Oh, Dutt the king,> > He is half Hindu, half Muslim.]> > > > I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way.> Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of> today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a> few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and> psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides> of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there> probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling> communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and> alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and> Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in> concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat> flowery text:> > > > The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim> Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation> Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage,> some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an> ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal> identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the> logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities.> And so,> these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled> the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition,> or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it> was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same> time.> > > > I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the> complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved> simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of> food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious> celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a> powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and> revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present> mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also> many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model> for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus.> > > > Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to> rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day.> > > ------------------------------> -- > Prabhat Kumar> Ph.D. Student,> Department of History,> South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,> Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,> 69120 Heidelberg, Germany.> Mobile: 00 49 17685050077> FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.> > > > > > -- > Prabhat Kumar> Ph.D. Student,> Department of History,> South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg,> Im Neuenheimer Feld 330,> 69120 Heidelberg, Germany.> Mobile: 00 49 17685050077> FAX: 00 49 06221 546381.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in> the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Register once and play all contests. Increase your scores with bonus credits for logging in daily on MSN. http://specials.msn.co.in/msncontest/index.aspx From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 02:42:55 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:12:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar In-Reply-To: <71C45CB5CE2B4B8D9E7297A84DAC77D5@tara> References: <6353c690812090525m3b5f22a4l94d5f402115fd57@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00812090616m14887a7vdbb5492ae0d74255@mail.gmail.com> <71C45CB5CE2B4B8D9E7297A84DAC77D5@tara> Message-ID: That indeed is the point-what drives a Kashmiri pan Islamist to subject a hapless minscule Kashmiri Hindu community to ethnic cleansing;what is that motivates a Bermingham born (of Pakistani origin) Bilal to come as far as Kashmir & blow himself up in Srinagar on the x-mas eve of 2000; why should Bangluru based Kafil go all the way to commit suicide bombing at the galssgow airport ?Even recently we have seen Muslims boys from down south Kerala fighting with the Indian security forces in Kashmir.What inspired the Pakistani mercenary Mast Gul to singe in full public view Chare Shariff -the symbol of Kashmiriyat...???... There is something drastically wrong & time to come out of the denial mode......... Regardas all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: taraprakash at gmail.com> To: c.anupam at gmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:13:06 -0500> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar> > Looks like you are being a little too harsh on journalists. When they report > on a particular incident, you can't expect them to write a whole book on > that report; incorporating everything you want them to. The journalists were > not covering Jihad, they were covering a specific event.> Best> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "anupam chakravartty" > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:16 AM> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us,jihad will continue: > Lashkar> > > > "He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for> > the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as> > he spoke."> >> >> > I am sorry to say but this looks like the work of a typical western> > journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head. I> > doubt the credibility of this report on the grounds that it was clearly> > inspired from a Frederick Forsythe novel.> >> > The statement, "we are still well organised and active" is so absurd. The> > reporter calls the person a "coodinator" and then asks if they are not> > organised or active. How bizzare. (And how can we forget the cliche -- > > safe> > houses)> >> > "They are concentrated on the tribal areas of Western provinces of> > Pakistan": Even american missles knew about this. Where is the news here?> >> > Also very conspiratorially the reporter states the problem of Jihad with a> > quote from the so-called coordinator, stating the same shit (sorry but > > it's> > true) we have been getting on television and newspaper. If Jihad is > > epitome> > of good muslim, then the reporter should have also stated in a responsible> > manner that the Holy Koran has a very different connotation of Jehad as> > opposed to what a lot of non-muslims think of.> >> > ANI is a prestigious news organisation. Care must be taken not to make > > half> > hearted attempts to report about the real issues behind the pall of such> > calamity. My point here is if you have called it extremism, used phrases> > like jehad, holy war, fundamentalism, and other such things, then you must> > investigate why so many are becoming a part of this agenda. what makes> > a pashtoon from waziristan take up arms, who is capable of tilling the > > arid> > soils single handedly?> >> >> >> > On 12/9/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote:> >>> >> Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar> >> ANI> >> *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the > >> arrest> >> of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported > >> mastermind> >> of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of> >> Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its> >> activities.> >>> >> "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted > >> the> >> Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near> >> Lahore.> >>> >> The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" and is> >> concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan.> >>> >> He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for> >> the> >> interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he> >> spoke.> >>> >> The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, > >> his> >> eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer.> >>> >> "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to conduct> >> attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh > >> Raees,> >> a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management> >> Sciences.> >>> >> The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits.> >> "Young> >> boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, > >> because> >> they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their> >> families are involved," he said.> >>> >> Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan> >> extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice.> >>> >> "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more desperate > >> for> >> money in Pakistan," she said.> >>> >> "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children > >> became> >> orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such> >> as> >> Lashkar," she added.> >>> >> She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000> >> dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for young> >> boys," the Lashkar organizer said.> >>> >> However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that> >> the organization has training camps.> >>> >> "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was> >> formed> >> in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said.> >>> >> *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan*> >>> >> Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander > >> Zakiur> >> Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes,> >> saying> >> questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain> >> whether> >> he had any link to the attacks.> >>> >> Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's 'concerns'> >> can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad> >> has> >> proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks.> >>> >> "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who > >> these> >> culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel.> >>> >> He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the> >> crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to> >> the Mumbai terror attacks.> >>> >> Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only > >> terrorist> >> caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators.> >>> >> "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get hold > >> of> >> the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be> >> involved> >> (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to> >> find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find > >> out,"> >> he said.> >>> >> Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of> >> improvement in relations between India and Pakistan.> >>> >> "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and gaining> >> confidence of each other," he said.> >>> >> Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired> >> by> >> Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' of> >> incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war against > >> terror> >> and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace.> >> _________________________________________> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> >> Critiques & Collaborations> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> >> subscribe in the subject header.> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other wood, only on Live.com http://www.live.com/?scope=video&form=MICOAL From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 09:38:38 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:08:38 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Finding A Connection To Judaism During the Eid Message-ID: Subject: NPR.org - Finding A Connection To Judaism During the Eid : NPR Date: 12/9/2008 11:25:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time by Eboo Patel Eboo Patel is the founder and executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core, a Chicago-based organization fostering the international interfaith youth movement. He lectures worldwide on youth and religion and was a keynote speaker at the 2004 Nobel Peace Prize Forum. NPR.org, December 8, 2008 · He reminds me of my son. That was my first thought when I saw the picture of Moshe Holtzberg — 2 years old, dark eyes, full lips — wearing a green shirt, clutching an orange ball and wailing "Dada." My almost-2-year-old son just learned how to say "Dada." He walks around the house and claps his hands and repeats "Dada" in his own peculiar toddler rhythm. When I leave for work in the morning, he sometimes reaches for me and wails "Dada" with a tinge of sadness in his voice. But not like Moshe's sadness. His parents are gone to God. They are not coming back. They were ripped from Moshe by terrorists who perversely believed that Islam is a totalitarian faith, a faith defined by destroying diversity. Mumbai, the city they attacked, is defined by its diversity — a masala of cultures that included Moshe's family of Hasidic Jews from Brooklyn. The Chabad center they led is about a mile from my grandmother's apartment in Mumbai. That is where I learned what it means to be a Muslim. I traveled to India 10 years ago with my friend Kevin, a Jew. My grandmother treated him like family from the moment he walked in the door. Every morning, she would call for Kevin to come into her room. She would hold his head in her lap and whisper Arabic prayers over him, asking God to keep him safe, to guide him on the straight path, to help him be a mercy upon the world. When she saw Kevin's books on Judaism, she could hardly contain her excitement. "He is 'Ahl al kitab,' " she would say — meaning he was part of the Abrahamic tradition, a son of the patriarch. My grandmother knew there was a Jewish community in Mumbai and ordered my cousin to track it down so Kevin could have Shabbat dinner. That's when I first learned there were Jews in India. My grandmother told us a story about the Prophet Muhammad. A funeral caravan passed him one day, and he was told that it carried the body of a Jew. The prophet stood up to show his respect. I stood up for the funeral of Moshe's parents. When my son says "Dada," I imagine Moshe's voice. When I pray for my son, I pray for Moshe too. This week, Muslims are celebrating Eid, a commemoration of the story of Abraham and his son, a story shared by both Muslims and Jews. I cannot help but see a version of this story in Moshe's family: a father willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, a son miraculously saved. In the Abraham story, it is God who performs the miracle, who saves the son. In Mumbai, it was an Indian nanny who protected Moshe from the terrorists' bullets. Her arms were the mercy of God, shielding the son of Abraham. She embodies the lesson that my grandmother was teaching, the true meaning of all of our faiths: We have to save each other. It's the only way to save ourselves. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 10:35:20 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:05:20 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Under Pressure, Sonal Shah Renounces VHP Message-ID: "After weeks of questions, Obama transition team member and former Google executive Sonal Shah today renounced her former connection to a Hindu organization accused of fomenting violence against Muslims and Christians in India. In a statement obtained exclusively by NextGov and National Journal, Shah says that if she could have anticipated the role of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) in the 2002 outbreak of communal violence in the Indian state of Gujarat, she never would have associated with the group's American branch a year earlier" Full report+photo: http://lostintransition.nationaljournal.com/2008/12/shah-renounces.php From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 11:35:40 2008 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:35:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Confession note by the lone captured terrorist from the Mumbai Mayhem Message-ID: <9d0d777b0812102205k6e5a31f9s1fdd1e25d1add53b@mail.gmail.com> The confession of a terrorist *The confession verbatim:* I have studied up to the 4th standard from the government primary school. After leaving school, I went to Lahore [Images ]. My brother Afzal stays at Galli No. 54, R.No. 12, Mohalla Tohit Abad, near Yadgar Minar, Lahore. I did labour jobs at different places till 2005. During that period I used to visit my native place. In the year 2005, I had a quarrel with my father. Therefore, I left my house and went to Ali Hajveri Darbar at Lahore. At the said place, the boys who had run away from their houses are kept. >From there, the boys are sent to different places for employment. One day when I was there, a person by name Shafiq came there and took me with him. He was in the catering business. He was from Zhelam. I started working with him on daily wages. I was given Rs 120 per day. After some days my salary was increased up to Rs 200 per day. I worked with him till 2007. While I was working with Shafiq, I came in contact with one Muzaffar Lal Khan, aged 22 years, r/o Village -Romiya, Tehsil & Dist -Atak, State -Sarhad, Pakistan. As we were not getting enough money, we decided to carry out robbery / dacoity at some place so that we will get a large amount. As such we left the job. Thereafter we went to Rawalpindi. We hired a flat at Bangash Colony, Rawalpindi, and started residing in it. Afzal had located a house where he thought we would get a large amount. He had surveyed the said place and drawn a map of the said place. We required some fire-arms for our purpose. Afzal told me that he could get some fire-arms at his native place, but it was very risky, as there was frequent checking at his native place. While we were in search of fire-arms we saw some LeT stalls at Raja bazaar, Rawalpindi, on the day of Bakri-id. We thought that, even if we procured fire-arms, we could not operate them. Therefore, we decided to join LeT for weapon training. After making enquiries we reached LeT office. In the LeT office we met a person. We told him that we wanted to join LeT. He made some enquiry with us, noted our names and address and told us to come on next day. On the next day, we went to LeT office and met the same man. One more person was present with him. He gave us Rs 200 and some receipt. Then he gave us the address of a place called Marqas Taiyyaaba, Muridke, and told us to go to the said place where LeT is having their training camp. As directed, we went to the said place by bus. We showed the receipt given to us at the gate of the camp. We were allowed inside. At the entry gate, our details were filled up on two forms. Then we were taken to the actual camp area. At the said place, initially we were selected for 21 days training called Daura-Sufa. From the next day, we started attending training. The daily programme was as mentioned below. ** *04.15:* Wake up call and thereafter namaz *08.00:* Breakfast *08.30-10.00:* Lecture on Hadis and Quran by Mufti Sayyed *10.00-12.00:* Rest *12.00-13.00:* Lunch Break *13.00-14.00:* Namaz *14.00-16.00:* Rest *16.00-18.00:* PT and Game Instructor Fadulla *18.00-20.00:* Namaz and other work *20.00-21.00:* Dinner After completion of the above said training, we were selected for another training called Daura-Ama. The said training was also for 21 days. We were then taken in a vehicle to a place called Mansera, Buttal Village. At the said place, we were given training of all weapons for 21 days. The daily programme was as mentioned below. ** *04.15 - 05.00:* Wake up call and thereafter namaaz *05.00-6.00:* PT Instructor Abu Anas *08.00:* Breakfast *08.30-11.30:* Weapons training. Trainer Abdul Rehman, Weapons AK-47, Green-O, SKS, Uzi gun, pistol, revolver *11.30-12.00:* Rest *12.00-13.00:* Lunch break *13.00-14.00:* Namaaz *14.00-16.00:* Rest *16.00-18.00:* PT *18.00-20.00:* Namaz and other work *20.00-21.00:* Dinner After completing the said training, we were told that, we will be given the next advance training, but for that purpose we have to do some Khidmat for two months (Khidmat is a sort of service in the said camp as per the trainees' liking). We agreed to do the Khidmat for two months. After two months, I was allowed to go to meet my parents. I stayed with my parents for one month. Thereafter, I went to LeT camp situated at Shaiwainala, Muzzafarabad, for further advanced training. At that place, they took my photographs and filled up some forms. Then we were taken to Chelabandi pahadi area for training called Duara-khas. The said training was for 3 months. The training included PT, handling of all weapons and firing practice of the said weapons, training of handling of hand grenade, rocket launchers and mortars. The daily programme was as mentioned below. *04.15-05.00:* Wake-up call and thereafter namaz *05.00-06.00:* PT Instructor Abu Mawiya *08.00:* Breakfast *08.30-11.30:* Weapons training handling of all weapons and firing practices of the said weapons, training of handling of hand grenade, rocket launchers and mortars, Green-O, SKS, Uzi gun, pistol, revolver, Hand grenade, rocket launchers. Trainer Abu Mawiya *11.30-12.00:* Rest *12.00-13.00:* Lunch Break *13.00-14.00:* Namaaz *14.00-16.00:* Weapon training and firing practice. Lecture on Indian security agencies *16.00-18.00:* PT *18.00-20.00:* Namaz and other work *20.00-21.00:* Dinner At the said place 32 persons were present for training. Out of these 32 trainees, 16 were selected for some confidential operation by one Zaqi-ur-Rehman Chacha. Out of these 16 trainees 3 trainees ran away from the camp. The above said chacha then sent the remaining 13 of us along with a person called Kafa to the above said earlier camp at Muridke. At Muridke, we were taught swimming and getting acquainted with the environment experienced by a fisherman on a sea. We did some experimental tours by launches on the sea. During the said training, we were given lectures on working of Indian security agencies. We were shown the clippings highlighting the atrocities on Muslims in India. After completing the said training, we were allowed to go to our native places. For seven days, I stayed with my family members. After seven days I went to the LeT camp at Muzzafarabad. The above said 13 of us were present for training. Thereafter, as per the instructions of Zaki-ur-Rehman, the above said Kafa took us to camp at Muridke. At the said camp again we underwent the training of swimming and getting acquainted with the environment and experience on sea. The training continued for one month. During the said training, we were given lectures on India and its security agencies, including RAW. We were also given the training on how to evade the chase by security personnel. We were strictly instructed not to make phone calls to Pakistan after reaching India. The names of the persons present for the said training are as mentioned below. Mohd Azmal aka Abu Muzahid Ismail aka Abu Umar Abu Ali Abu Aksha Abu Umer Abu Shoeb Abdul Rehman (Bada) Abdul Rehman (Chhota) Afadulla Abu Umar After completion of training, Zaki-ur-Rehman aka Chacha selected 10 of us and formed 5 teams each having two persons on 15 Sept 2008. My team included myself and Ismail. Our code name was VTS team. We were then shown the site 'Google Earth' on Internet. On the same site, we were shown the information about Azad Maidan, Mumbai, how and where to get down at Mumbai. We were shown the film on VT railway station and the film showing the commuters moving around at rush hours at VT railway station. We were instructed to carry out the firing at rush hours in the morning between 7 to 11 hours and between 7 to 11 hours in the evening. Then kidnap some persons, take them to the roof of some nearby building. After reaching at the roof top, we were to contact chacha. After that, chacha would give the telephone or mobile no of electronic media. We were then to contact the media persons on the same phone. And as per the instructions received from chacha, we would make demands for releasing the hostages. This was the general strategy decided by our trainers. The date fixed for the said operation was 27th Sept 2008. However, the operation was cancelled for some reason. We stayed at Karachi. Again we made practice of travelling by speed boats on the sea. We stayed there upto 23rd Nov 2008. The other teams were as mentioned below. *2nd Team ** 1) Abu Aksha 2) Abu Umar* *3rd Team** 1) Bada Abdul Rehman 2) Abu Ali 4th Team 1) Chhota Abdul Rehman 2) Afadulla* *5th Team** 1) Shoeb 2) Abu Umer* On 23rd Nov 2008, the above said teams including our team left from Azizabad, Karachi along with Zaki-ur-Rehman aka Chacha and Kafa. We were taken to the nearby sea shore. At 04.15 hours we reached the sea shore. At the sea shore we boarded a launch. After traveling for 22 to 25 nautical miles we met a bigger launch in the sea. We boarded the said launch and after journey of 1 hour we boarded a bigger ship by name Al-Huseini in the deep sea. While boarding the said ship, each of us was given a sack containing 8 grenades, one AK-47 rifle, 200 cartridges, 2 magazines and one cell phone for communication. Then we started towards Indian coast. When we reached Indian waters, the crew members of Al-Huseini ship hijacked one Indian launch. The seamen from the said launch were shifted to Al-Huseini ship. We were then boarded the hijacked Indian ship. One Indian seaman was kept along with us. At the gun point, he took us towards the Indian coast. After journey of about 3 days, we reached near sea shore of Mumbai. While we were at some distance from the shore, Ismail and Afadulla killed the Indian seaman, (Tandel) at the basement of the said Indian launch. Then we boarded floatable dinghi and reached Budwar Park Jetty as per the instructions received earlier. After getting down at Budwar Park, I went along with Ismail to VT railway Station by taxi. After reaching the hall of VT railway station Ismail and myself, went to the common toilet, took out the weapons from our sacks, loaded them, came out of toilet and started firing indiscriminately towards the passengers. Suddenly one police officer in uniform came towards us and opened fire. In retaliation, we threw hand grenades towards him and also opened fire towards him. Then we went inside the railway station threatening the commuters and randomly firing at them. Then we came out of the railway station and started searching for a building with roof top. But we did not find a suitable building. Therefore, we entered a lane. Then we entered a building and went upstarts. On 3rd or 4th floor we searched for hostages but we found that the said building was a hospital and not a residential building. Therefore we started coming down. At that time policemen started firing at us. As such we threw some grenades towards them. When we were coming out of the hospital premises, we suddenly saw one police vehicle passing in front of us. Therefore, we took shelter behind a bush. Another vehicle passed in front of us and stopped at some distance. One police officer got down from the said vehicle and started firing at us. One bullet hit my hand and my AK-47 dropped down. I bent to pick it up when second bullet hit me on the same hand. I got injured. Ismail opened fire at the officers who were in said vehicle. They got injured and firing from their side stopped. We waited for some time and then went towards the said vehicle. Three bodies lying there. Ismail removed the three bodies and drove the said vehicle. I sat next to him. While we were moving in the said vehicle, some police men tried to stop us. Ismail opened fire towards them while we were on the move; our vehicle got punctured near a big ground by the side of road. Ismail got down from the driver seat, stopped a car at the gun point and removed the three lady occupants from the said car. Then Ismail carried me to the car and sat me inside as I was injured. Then he drove the said car. While we were moving in the said car, we were stopped on the road near sea shore. Ismail fired towards them. Some policemen got injured. Police also opened fire towards us. Due to the police firing Ismail got injured. Then police removed us to some hospital. In the hospital I came to know that Ismail succumbed to the injuries he has sustained. http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/11mumterror-confession-of-caught-terrorist-mumbai.htm From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 11:55:08 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:25:08 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] In India, Muslims Mark a Somber Eid Message-ID: In India, Muslims Mark a Somber Eid Celebrations Subdued After Mumbai Siege By Emily Wax Washington Post Foreign Service Wednesday, December 10, 2008; A18 MUMBAI, Dec. 9 -- Ahsaan Qureshi, one of India's most popular comics, usually hosts a posh party to mark the Muslim festival of Eid al-Adha. His wife gets her hands decorated with red swirls of henna. His children dress in their swankiest clothes, eating sweets and setting off firecrackers late into the night. Family friends come over and dine on vats of biryani, an Indian version of jambalaya. But after a series of coordinated attacks late last month across Mumbai, India's financial capital and largest city, Qureshi, 45, like many of the country's 140 million Muslims, held a much more subdued Eid on Tuesday, mainly out of respect for those who died in the three-day siege. "There is no glitz and glamour this year," said Qureshi, who was a star on the "Great Indian Laughter Challenge" stand-up show and has been featured in several Indian films. "I speak for many Muslims when I say we are all in a great deal of pain. It's not a happy Eid." >From the ancient walled city of Jaipur in the northwest to the streets of Kolkata in the east, India's Muslims have held somber vigils to show their solidarity in condemning the attacks. This week, leaders of the All India Organization of Imams of Mosques asked Muslims to wear black bands on their shoulders as a symbol of loyalty to their homeland. Muslim groups in Mumbai, meanwhile, have brought tea and cookies to many of the victims still recuperating at the city's hospitals. "Long live Mother India" and "Our country's enemies are our enemies," one group of young Muslim students called out during an Eid candlelight gathering to protest the attacks. The displays of solidarity come amid fresh fears of sectarian strife between India's Muslim and Hindu communities. Communal riots have plagued Mumbai before, particularly in December 1992 and January 1993, when hundreds of people died. Riots in the western state of Gujarat in 2002 left more than 1,000 Muslims and Hindus dead in the worst display of sectarian violence since the bloody partition of the Indian subcontinent in 1947. In recent months, a series of deadly bombings have been linked to either Muslim or Hindu extremists. Indian Muslims -- who represent about 10 percent of the country's population -- are by and large eager to separate themselves from the alleged Islamist extremists who carried out last month's Mumbai attacks. They are also quick to point out that a third of the 171 victims were Muslim. "Muslims in India are a suspect and separate minority," said Vivek Kumar, a sociology professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. "Islam is a huge part of India's history, its architecture. But, of course, Muslims are deeply rattled now. They fear they will be branded Pakistani." Muslims around the world usually celebrate Eid by slaughtering sheep, goats and cows to commemorate the prophet Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son, Ismail, on God's command. This year, Muslim leaders asked that no cows be killed out of respect for the Hindu belief that cattle are sacred. Muslim leaders have also refused to allow the bodies of the nine fighters killed in the attacks to be buried in Islamic cemeteries. In sermons and in street demonstrations, Muslims have said they, too, want tougher laws and a stepped-up fight against terrorist attacks. "We are calling for justice in Pakistan just as much as anyone," said Abbasali Jannati, 33, a Muslim home designer, who spent a recent afternoon walking through the Colaba neighborhood, the location of many of the attacks. In Gujarat, six years after the sectarian violence, Muslims remain angry and aggrieved. Many who lost their homes in the riots are now living in India's largest Muslim ghetto. The violence erupted after 59 Hindus were burned to death on a train as they returned home from a pilgrimage. At the time, Muslim extremists were blamed for the fire. But the cause of the blaze remains in dispute, and one government panel has said it was an accident. At mosques in Gujarat on Tuesday, worshipers observed a moment of silence, said Chiraag Sheik, a Muslim social activist. Muslims in India tend to be poorer than their Hindu neighbors. Some Muslims complained this week that they were having trouble renting houses, and others said they were being watched closely when entering businesses. Near an Islamic prayer cap store and in front of a popular mosque in Mumbai, friends gathered in a narrow alleyway after prayers to console Mohammed Rafique, 45, who had been at the landmark Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel, the scene of much of the carnage. "We all have felt the horror," said Rafique, a driver, who was inside the hotel to help organize a wedding party. "I just hope my Hindu brethren don't blame us. We have suffered greatly, too." Special correspondent Pragya Krishna in New Delhi contributed to this report. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 12:44:47 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:14:47 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Meghna Guhathakurta on Minority Rights Message-ID: "Addressing minority rights at the grass roots is one of the many building blocks of a tolerant and democratic society…The justice and electoral system must work equally for those in the mainstream as well as for those say for example, in the Chittagong Hill Tracts." Full text at: http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/11/meghna-guhathakurta/ From shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 13:09:33 2008 From: shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com (Shambhu Rahmat) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:39:33 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Anand Patwardhan: Terror/The Aftermath Message-ID: Terror: The Aftermath Anand Patwardhan The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame game and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm our police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the USA did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us further into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives on reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge. The External Terror Those who invoke America need only to analyze if its actions after 9/11 increased or decreased global terror. It invaded oil-rich Iraq fully knowing that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, killing over 200,000 Iraqis citizens but allowing a cornered Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan. It recruited global support for Islamic militancy, which began to be seen as a just resistance against American mass murder. Which begs the question of who created Bin Laden in the first place, armed the madarsas of Pakistan and rejuvenated the concept of Islamic jehad? Israel played its own role in stoking the fires of jehad. The very creation of Israel in 1948 robbed Palestinians of their land, an act that Mahatma Gandhi to his credit deplored at the time as an unjust way to redress the wrongs done to Jews during the Holocaust. What followed has been a slow and continuing attack on the Palestinian nation. At first Palestinian resistance was led by secular forces represented by Yasser Arafat but as these were successfully undermined, Islamic forces took over the mantle. The first, largely non-violent Intifada was crushed, a second more violent one replaced it and when all else failed, human bombs appeared. Thirty years ago when I first went abroad there were two countries my Indian passport forbade me to visit. One was racist South Africa. The other was Israel. We were non-aligned and stood for disarmament and world peace. Today Israel and America are our biggest military allies. Is it surprising that we are on the jehadi hit list? Israel, America and other prosperous countries can to an extent protect themselves against the determined jehadi, but can India put an impenetrable shield over itself? Remember that when attackers are on a suicide mission, the strongest shields have crumbled. New York was laid low not with nuclear weapons but with a pair of box cutters. India is for many reasons a quintessentially soft target. Our huge population, vast landmass and coastline are impossible to protect. The rich may build new barricades. The Taj and the Oberoi can be made safer. So can our airports and planes. Can our railway stations and trains, bus stops, busses, markets and lanes do the same? The Terror Within The threat of terror in India does not come exclusively from the outside. Apart from being hugely populated by the poor India is also a country divided, not just between rich and poor, but by religion, caste and language. This internal divide is as potent a breeding ground for terror as jehadi camps abroad. Nor is jehad the copyright of one religion alone. It can be argued that international causes apart, India has jehadis that are fully home grown. Perhaps the earliest famous one was Nathuram Godse who acting at the behest of his mentor Vinayak Savarkar (still referred to as "Veer" or "brave" although he refused to own up to his role in the conspiracy), murdered Mahatma Gandhi for the crime of championing Muslims. Jump forward to 6th December, 1992, the day Hindu fanatics demolished the Babri Mosque setting into motion a chain of events that still wreaks havoc today. From the Bombay riots of 1992 to the bomb blasts of 1993, the Gujarat pogroms of 2002 and hundreds of smaller deadly events, the last 16 years have been the bloodiest since Partition. Action has been followed by reaction in an endless cycle of escalating retribution. At the core on the Hindu side of terror are organizations that openly admire Adolph Hitler, nursing the hate of historic wrongs inflicted by Muslims. Ironically these votaries of Hitler remain friends and admirers of Israel. On the Muslim side of terror are scores of disaffected youth, many of whom have seen their families tortured and killed in more recent pogroms. Christians too have fallen victim to recent Hindutva terror but as yet not formed the mechanisms for revenge. Dalits despite centuries of caste oppression, have not yet retaliated in violence although a small fraction is being drawn into an armed struggle waged by Naxalites. It is clear that no amount of spending on defense, no amount of patrolling the high seas, no amount of increasing the military and police and equipping them with the latest weaponry can end the cycle of violence or place India under a bubble of safety. Just as nuclear India did not lead to more safety, but only to a nuclear Pakistan, no amount of homeland security can save us. And inviting Israel's Mossad and America's CIA/FBI to the security table is like giving the anti-virus contract to those who spread the virus in the first place. It can only make us more of a target for the next determined jehadi attack. Policing, Justice and the Media As for draconian anti-terror laws, they too only breed terror as for the most part they are implemented by a State machinery that has imbibed majoritarian values. So in Modi's Gujarat after the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in 2002, despite scores of confessions to rape and murder captured on hidden camera, virtually no Hindu extremists were punished while thousands of Muslims rotted in jail under draconian laws. The same happened in Bombay despite the Shiv Sena being found guilty by the Justice Shrikrishna Commission. Under pressure a few cases were finally brought to trial but all escaped with the lightest of knuckle raps. In stark contrast many Muslims accused in the 1993 bomb blasts were given death sentences. The bulk of our media, policing and judicial systems swallows the canard that Muslims are by nature violent. Removing democratic safeguards guaranteed by the Constitution can only make this worse. Every act of wrongful imprisonment and torture that then follows is likely to turn innocents into material for future terrorists to draw upon. Already the double standards are visible. While the Students Islamic Movement of India is banned, Hindutva outfits like the RSS, the VHP, the Bajrang Dal, and the Shiv Sena remain legal entities. The leader of the MNS, Raj Thackeray recently openly spread such hatred that several north Indians were killed by lynch mobs. Amongst these were the Dube brothers, doctors from Kalyan who treated the poor for a grand fee of Rs.10 per patient. Raj Thackeray like his uncle Bal before him, remains free after issuing public threats that Bombay would burn if anyone had the guts to arrest him. Modi remains free despite the pogroms of Gujarat. Congress party murderers of Sikhs in 1984 remain free. Justice in India is clearly not there for all. Increasing the powers of the police cannot solve this problem. Only honest and unbiased implementation of laws that exist, can. It is a tragedy of the highest proportions that one such honest policeman, Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who had begun to unravel the thread of Hindutva terror was himself gunned down, perhaps by Muslim terror. It is reported that Col. Purohit and fellow Hindutva conspirators now in judicial custody, celebrated the news of Karkare's death. Until Karkare took charge, the Malegaon bomb blasts in which Muslims were killed and the Samjhauta Express blasts in which Pakistani visitors to India were killed were being blamed on Muslims. Karkare exposed a hitherto unknown Hindutva outfit as masterminding a series of killer blasts across the country. For his pains Karkare came under vicious attack not just from militant Hindutva but from the mainstream BJP. He was under tremendous pressure to prove his patriotism. Was it this that led this senior officer to don helmet and ill-fitting bullet proof vest and rush into battle with a pistol? Or was it just his natural instinct, the same courage that had led him against all odds, to expose Hindutva terror? Whatever it was, it only underlines the fact that jehadis of all kinds are actually allies of each other. So Bin Laden served George Bush and vice-versa. So Islamic and Hindutva jehadis have served each other for years. Do they care who dies? Of the 200 people killed in the last few days by Islamic jehadis, a high number were Muslims. Many were waiting to board trains to celebrate Eid in their hometowns in UP and Bihar, when their co-religionists gunned them down. Shockingly the media has not commented on this, nor focused on the tragedy at the railway station, choosing to concentrate on tragedies that befell the well-to-do. And it is the media that is leading the charge to turn us into a war-mongering police state where we may lead lives with an illusion of safety, but with the certainty of joylessness. I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places and at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is accompanied by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and humanity, when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of "patriots" and zealots. Anand Patwardhan November 2008 From rana at ranadasgupta.com Thu Dec 11 13:11:04 2008 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:11:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India fumes at duplicate Bangladeshi Taj Mahal Message-ID: <4940C410.6000608@ranadasgupta.com> This was one of the rare stories in the current Indian newspapers that made me laugh. Let's just hope they find what they're looking for when they look into copyright law. Otherwise they'll still be fuming. R India's embassy in Bangladesh on Wednesday voiced its displeasure over a life-size copy of the Taj Mahal, saying it would investigate to see if any copyright laws had been breached. "You can't just go and copy historical monuments," fumed a spokesman at the Indian High Commission in Dhaka. "Someone will go out there and have a look. The reports we are reading say it is an exact replica. This is a protected site we are talking about so we need to find out if it really is the exact size," he told AFP. Bangladeshi film director Ahsanullah Moni unveiled his $ 58 million replica, located about 30 kilometres (20 miles) northeast of the Bangladeshi capital Dhaka, this week. Moni began building it five years ago but came up with the idea in 1980 when he first visited the real "Monument to Love" in Agra, India. He imported marble and granite from Italy, diamonds from Belgium and used 160 kilos (350 pounds) of bronze for the dome. "Everyone dreams about seeing the Taj Mahal but very few Bangladeshis can make the trip because it's too expensive for them," he said. The Taj Mahal was built by Emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his wife, Mumtaz Mahal, who died giving birth in 1631. -- "What could have attracted me to this desolate land other than the desire to stay?" From aliak77 at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 13:43:38 2008 From: aliak77 at gmail.com (Kath O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:13:38 +1100 Subject: [Reader-list] Confession note by the lone captured terrorist from the Mumbai Mayhem In-Reply-To: <9d0d777b0812102205k6e5a31f9s1fdd1e25d1add53b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d0d777b0812102205k6e5a31f9s1fdd1e25d1add53b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <383607190812110013l20079b2mfcbb7f64de8b47f@mail.gmail.com> so is this right.. (likely I'm simplifying too much & don't understand the background properly & perhaps this isn't the place to discuss it?) the guy comes from a troubled home, goes from getting Rs200 per day (roughly AUS$6/US$4) working, wants to make more cash. meets a friend & they decide to rob houses to make more money. gets paid Rs200 to goto a training camp where he then gets food, accomodation, religious teachings & training & hangs out with other guys/mates. do they do this for free or get paid, or for accom&food/better than paying for rent elsewhere? (it didn't mention if he got paid whilst training). maybe the govt needs to look at this as a cause - what other options are there for wayward kids instead of them going to these training camps? it almost makes it sound like he got caught up with the wrong crowd - he should have stayed with the catering/labouring jobs. plenty of others would be paid as little as this & not revert to training camps & then go off & kill people. how popular are these camps? & does anyone try to shut them down? do the kids know these are effectively suicide training camps? or do they think they're going to come back and then leave the group & go on to rob houses or something else with their weapons training. if it wasn't so awful it'd almost be sad that he/they reverted to this and couldn't try other options like working for a living. (obviously there'd be a lot of things going on not mentioned in the transcript). his story/transcript brings back the thought that he's a person doing these terrible things instead of the nameless 'terrorists' label which almost seem impersonal/non-human. it makes me sad even more, not only for the people lost but for the people who feel this is their only option and the ones leading them who must have so much hate in their lives to cause so much destruction. to me it's not a religious issue as no religion I've come across condones this type of behaviour so it makes me sad too when people are mistakenly associated with these things too when they seem worlds apart. what happened to his friend Muzzaffa Lal Khan & his brother Afzal - they didn't seem to be in the list of 10? were they part of the 13 (10 names in list + Afzal + Muzzaffa + Ajmal (confessing)) then dropped from the mumbai team? and the 2nd team list has Abu Umar (Ismail in original list of 10) but he says he & Ismail were partners (1st team). and the others in the camp not selected for the mumbai team. kath 2008/12/11 Rajkamal Goswami : from : http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/11mumterror-confession-of-caught-terrorist-mumbai.htm > The confession of a terrorist > > > *The confession verbatim:* > > I have studied up to the 4th standard from the government primary school. > After leaving school, I went to Lahore From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 15:05:04 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:35:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar In-Reply-To: <341380d00812090616m14887a7vdbb5492ae0d74255@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <431215.84804.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   The Washington Times report was written by Ayesha Akram.   The name does not sound as belonging to what you called "... a typical western journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head."   You yourself on the other hand have ascribed quotes to the ANI report that are not to be found anywhere in the report. Seems like it is you who has imagined things out of your head.   The problem is not in what Non-Muslims think "Jihad" is all about. The problem is in what some of the Muslims themselves believe and how they interpret "Jihad" and accordingly preach it, propagate it and follow  the path of mindless violence.   Kshmendra  --- On Tue, 12/9/08, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:46 PM "He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he spoke." I am sorry to say but this looks like the work of a typical western journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head. I doubt the credibility of this report on the grounds that it was clearly inspired from a Frederick Forsythe novel. The statement, "we are still well organised and active" is so absurd. The reporter calls the person a "coodinator" and then asks if they are not organised or active. How bizzare. (And how can we forget the cliche -- safe houses) "They are concentrated on the tribal areas of Western provinces of Pakistan": Even american missles knew about this. Where is the news here? Also very conspiratorially the reporter states the problem of Jihad with a quote from the so-called coordinator, stating the same shit (sorry but it's true) we have been getting on television and newspaper. If Jihad is epitome of good muslim, then the reporter should have also stated in a responsible manner that the Holy Koran has a very different connotation of Jehad as opposed to what a lot of non-muslims think of. ANI is a prestigious news organisation. Care must be taken not to make half hearted attempts to report about the real issues behind the pall of such calamity. My point here is if you have called it extremism, used phrases like jehad, holy war, fundamentalism, and other such things, then you must investigate why so many are becoming a part of this agenda. what makes a pashtoon from waziristan take up arms, who is capable of tilling the arid soils single handedly? On 12/9/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar > ANI > *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the arrest > of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported mastermind > of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of > Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its > activities. > > "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted the > Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near > Lahore. > > The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" and is > concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan. > > He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for > the > interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he > spoke. > > The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, his > eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer. > > "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to conduct > attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh Raees, > a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management > Sciences. > > The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits. > "Young > boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, because > they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their > families are involved," he said. > > Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan > extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice. > > "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more desperate for > money in Pakistan," she said. > > "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children became > orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such > as > Lashkar," she added. > > She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000 > dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for young > boys," the Lashkar organizer said. > > However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that > the organization has training camps. > > "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was > formed > in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said. > > *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan* > > Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander Zakiur > Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes, > saying > questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain > whether > he had any link to the attacks. > > Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's 'concerns' > can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad > has > proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks. > > "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who these > culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel. > > He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the > crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to > the Mumbai terror attacks. > > Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only terrorist > caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators. > > "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get hold of > the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be > involved > (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to > find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find out," > he said. > > Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of > improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. > > "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and gaining > confidence of each other," he said. > > Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired > by > Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' of > incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war against terror > and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 15:19:12 2008 From: shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com (Shambhu Rahmat) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:49:12 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] India fumes, Bangladesh Taj Message-ID: Weird thing is, is it a hoax? I had never heard of this until it surfaced in BBC this week. Just wondering how such a huge project could have happened and nobody in Bangladesh has heard of it. I have been in the neighboring area recently, and surely someone would have told me to go check it out. Remember that whole brouhaha about Amitav Bacchan starring in a movie about Sheikh Mujib. Also turned out to be untrue, although there was a grain of truth-- Gaffar Chowdhury had said he had talked to Amitav. >From there it became "to star". Next they'll be reporting this story as "true" http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/11/onion-goes-bangladesh/ > From: Rana Dasgupta > India's embassy in Bangladesh on Wednesday voiced its displeasure over a > life-size copy of the Taj Mahal, saying it would investigate to see if > any copyright laws had been breached. > > "You can't just go and copy historical monuments," fumed a spokesman at > the Indian High Commission in Dhaka. > > "Someone will go out there and have a look. The reports we are reading > say it is an exact replica. This is a protected site we are talking > about so we need to find out if it really is the exact size," he told AFP. > > Bangladeshi film director Ahsanullah Moni unveiled his $ 58 million > replica, located about 30 kilometres (20 miles) northeast of the > Bangladeshi capital Dhaka, this week. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 15:59:53 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:29:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India fumes, Bangladesh Taj In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <435431.21612.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shambhu   Absolutely delightful video on Smart Stitch.   Woman on beach recliner using the Smart Stitch.   Ashraf Karim, President Tripura Textile Company saying that:   - Smart Stitch has increased productivity in his sweatshops even more than chaining workers to their machines. The productivity 'graph' compares that from Smart Stich use to 'Food Deprivation', 'Whipping' and "Chaining Workers to Machines"   - It used to make him very angry when workers went home for the night. But now that the workers use Smart Stitch, their whole lives belong to him. He feels like GOD   Ritu Ahmed, an 'early adopter' of the Smart Stitch saying in it's praise that:   - Smart Stitch allows her to work 22 hours in a day instead of just 16   - She can now keep sewing until she passes out from exhaustion   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Shambhu Rahmat wrote: From: Shambhu Rahmat Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India fumes, Bangladesh Taj To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 3:19 PM Weird thing is, is it a hoax? I had never heard of this until it surfaced in BBC this week. Just wondering how such a huge project could have happened and nobody in Bangladesh has heard of it. I have been in the neighboring area recently, and surely someone would have told me to go check it out. Remember that whole brouhaha about Amitav Bacchan starring in a movie about Sheikh Mujib. Also turned out to be untrue, although there was a grain of truth-- Gaffar Chowdhury had said he had talked to Amitav. >From there it became "to star". Next they'll be reporting this story as "true" http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/11/onion-goes-bangladesh/ > From: Rana Dasgupta > India's embassy in Bangladesh on Wednesday voiced its displeasure over a > life-size copy of the Taj Mahal, saying it would investigate to see if > any copyright laws had been breached. > > "You can't just go and copy historical monuments," fumed a spokesman at > the Indian High Commission in Dhaka. > > "Someone will go out there and have a look. The reports we are reading > say it is an exact replica. This is a protected site we are talking > about so we need to find out if it really is the exact size," he told AFP. > > Bangladeshi film director Ahsanullah Moni unveiled his $ 58 million > replica, located about 30 kilometres (20 miles) northeast of the > Bangladeshi capital Dhaka, this week. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 17:17:11 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:17:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Terror in India not linked to Kashmir: Pranab Message-ID: Terror in India not linked to Kashmir: Pranab 11 Dec 2008, 1651 hrs IST, PTI NEW DELHI: Slamming Pakistan for linking Mumbai attacks to non-resolution of Kashmir issue, India on Thursday asked it to take "serious" action to completely dismantle terror infrastructure and end infiltration but maintained that war against the neighbour was not a solution. Talking tough in the Lok Sabha, external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee raised questions over Pakistan's sincerity in curbing activities of terror groups operating from its soil as he suggested that "house arrest" of Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed was not enough. Intervening in the debate in Lok Sabha on Mumbai attacks, he said India has repeatedly given Pakistan a list of 40 terrorists, including Dawood Ibrahim, with a demand that they be handed over and expressed hope that Islamabad would respond positively. He asked Pakistan to come out of the "denial mode" on existence of terrorists, including "non-state actors", who operate from the confines of that country as he wondered: "did the non-state actors come from heaven, did the non-state actors come from another planet?" Mukherjee also slammed Pakistan for creating a war "hysteria" by indulging in "propaganda" on the basis of a hoax call that "big power" India was going to attack. "That is not the solution," he said when Shiv Sena member Mohan Rawale said India should attack Pakistan in the wake of the terror strikes. Rubbishing efforts by Pakistan to link the terror strikes to non-resolution of Kashmir issue, Mukherjee asserted that such a "straight jacket simple formula" will not help solve the problem as the series of attacks in India are part of global terrorism. "It (attacks) is not related to Jammu and Kashmir issue. It is part of global terrorism," Mukherjee said in the House amid repeated thumping of desks, significantly on both ruling and opposition sides. "I don't believe in straight jacket formula. It is not as simple. It is complex...It is not that if Kashmir issue is solved, everything will be in place," the external affairs minister said. Referring to the "solemn assurances" given by the then President Pervez Musharraf and his successor President Asif Ali Zardari to end terrorism emanating from Pakistan, he said "expression of intent is not sufficient" and that Islamabad needs to "act" to convincing levels. He pointed to the "house arrest" of LeT chief and said it was "not convincing" as even after the reported action by Pakistani authorities, Saeed was appearing on TV channels. "What does house arrest mean? Laws, Indian Penal Code, in Pakistan are the same as in India, the names may be different. He should be either in judicial or police custody," Mukherjee said. Suggesting that Pakistan could be indulging in non-serious actions against terrorism, he said the "same scenes were played out after the attack on Parliament in December 2001... The Lashkar-e-Taiba was banned but it changed name, the signboards were changed but the faces, ideology and activities remained the same." Demanding complete dismantling of terror infrastructure existing in territories under Pakistan's control and end to infiltration, he told Islamabad "Please follow up seriously... it (action) should be taken to its logical conclusion." "It is not India-Pakistan issue, not a Jammu and Kashmir issue... Terrorism is not confined to borders of any country. It is international phenomenon," Mukherjee said, describing terrorism as the biggest threat to the world post-Cold War. Noting that terrorists have struck in important tourist place Jaipur, science and technology hub Bangalore, industrial hub Ahmedabad and financial capital Mumbai during the year, the external affairs minister said there is a "design" and "method" behind these attacks. "We tell Pakistan, please do not deny facts. Accept it," he said, as he observed that there was a "sense of anger and outrage" in India over the Mumbai attacks and people want the government to "rise to the occasion" and send a "resolute message" to Pakistan. During the debate which saw unusual unity between ruling and opposition benches, Mukherjee asserted that India will not allow its "territorial sovereignty and integrity to be played with" and "nobody should dare to attack us. This message must be conveyed." Apparently hinting at the disconnect between the political leadership and military establishment in Pakistan that allows terrorists to operate from that country, he said Islamabad needs to address its internal problems and that New Delhi was ready to help in this regard. Seeking to highlight this aspect, he said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was promised that Director General of ISI would visit India to help in probe into Mumbai attacks. "But within hours, it was denied. It may be Pakistan's internal problem. They have to solve it. International community should help." Underlining that India was in the process of building an international campaign to highlight the fact that terrorism against this country is emanating from Pakistan, Mukherjee said majority of the world leaders he spoke to agreed that Mumbai terror attackers came from Pakistan. He, however, said India has to deal with Pakistan patiently as it is a neighbour which cannot be changed. "I am not indulging in jingoism. I am simply expressing my anger. We have to deal with the situation. We cannot change our neighbours. The issues cannot be ducked. The issues cannot be sidelined," Mukherjee said. "Whatever be the depth of our anger, it is a phenomenon which cannot be switched on or off. We have to patiently deal with it. "Those who talk of thousand years of war after failing to win in an open battle field did it with an objective to cause great harm to this country. We are not provoked. We have no intention to be provoked," he said. The minister said India has already expressed anger and outrage to Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks in which foreigners were targeted for the first time. He said that 26 foreigners from 13 countries were killed in the attacks and said he had conveyed to their countries regret for not being able to protect the "guests". The attack was planned and the terrorists came from Pakistan, he said adding, even during the operation their controllers in Pakistan were guiding them as action was shown live on television. Mukherjee criticised news channels for live coverage of the three-day long operation to "enhance" viewership at the cost of national interest and said there was need to "draw a line". http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3823846,flstry-1.cms From rajeshr at csds.in Thu Dec 11 17:32:17 2008 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:32:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `The Capability Approach and Grassroots Development Projects', Ingrid Robeyns, CSDS, 18 Dec Message-ID: *Thursday, 18th December, 2008* *Ingrid Robeyns* will speak on *The Capability Approach and Grassroots Development Projects: Promises and Limitations* ** at *2:30 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* The capability approach is an increasingly influential framework for development questions. Yet its greatest impact so far has been at highly aggregate level, such as within the United Nations' Human Development Reports or for country-level analyses. The question addressed in this paper is how the capability approach can be used to serve people at the level of grassroots organisations and Non-Governmental Organisations. What are the promises and limitations in the use of the capability approach at the grassroots level? And how can individuals and groups who are committed to improving the quality of life of poor and marginalised communities use the capability approach to advance that goal? The talk will address these issues at a general theoretical level, and illustrate some of them based on a community-based project in Khayelitsha, Cape Town, South Africa. Ingrid Robeyns is a philosopher and economist, and Professor in Practical Philosophy at Erasmus University, Rotterdam. She was awarded a Ph.D. in 2003 by the Faculty of Economics and Politics, Cambridge University for her dissertation `Gender Inequality: A Capability Perspective', guided by Professor Amartya Sen. Her publications include (Ed. with Bina Agarwal and Jane Humphries), *Amartya Sen's Work and Ideas: A Gender Perspective*, London: Routledge, 2005 and (Ed. with Bina Agarwal and Jane Humphries)*Capabilities, Freedom and Equality: Amartya Sen's Work From a Gender Perspective*, New Delhi: OUP, 2006. A forthcoming book is (Ed. with Harry Brighouse) *Measuring Justice: Primary Goods and Capabilities* (Cambridge University Press). From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 20:24:13 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:24:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits Message-ID: There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government said on Thursday. ( Watch ) The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 22:08:35 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:08:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) 2) Hurriyat Conference 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) 5) All India Students Association (AISA) 6) CPI ..................there are many more. Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant provocation. Anybody initiating this movement ? I'm all ears.. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: > > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? > > > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > charity > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. > > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 22:44:31 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:44:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya If you want to go in the chronological order, (you mentioned "initiators"), then look at some dates of when these organizations started. Let us start banning them one by one, according to how old they are: Abhinav Bharat (Veer Savarkar): 1907 RSS (Hedgewar): 1930-40s Jana Sangha (precursor to BJP): 1951 Vishwa Hindu Parishad: 1964 Shiva Sena: 1966 JKLF: 1977 SFI: 1970 AISA: early 1990s Hurriyat Conference: 1993 Lashkar-e Taiba: 1980s Taliban: 1994 Al-Qaeda: 1988 Indian Mujahideen (2008) On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > > 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > 2) Hurriyat Conference > 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > 6) CPI > ..................there are many more. > > Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant provocation. > > Anybody initiating this movement ? > > I'm all ears.. > > Thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >> >> There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and >> banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I >> think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror >> outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement >> should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >> >> >> Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >> 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >> >> ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security >> Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >> charity >> Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government >> said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >> >> The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >> Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the >> group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as >> its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >> >> "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has >> taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by >> the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would >> fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 22:53:30 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:53:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa, shuts offices Message-ID: Pakistan bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa, shuts offices 11 Dec 2008, 2048 hrs IST, AGENCIES ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has banned the charity group Jamaat-ud-Dawa and has ordered the closure of all offices of the group, a TV channel reported. The Dawn News TV channel quoted Rehman Malik, advisor to the prime minister on interior affairs, as saying that Pakistan has banned the group with immediate effect and its activities were under observation. A government official said that authorities had been ordered to close the offices of Jamaat-u-Dawa. "Instructions have been issued to seal Jamaat-ud-Dawa offices in all the four provinces as well as Azad Kashmir," said interior ministry spokesman Shahidullah Baig, referring to Pakistani-administered Kashmir. "Now the orders will be implemented." Earlier in the day, Pakistan said it will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group. The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 00:29:30 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:59:30 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Citizens, Not Enemies Message-ID: "43% of all Hindu households (1.2 million) have been affected by EPA/VPA. Total area of land lost is 2.01 million acres, which is 5.5% of Bangladesh's total land mass but 45% of land owned by the Hindu community. Assuming average market price of land as seen in the year 2007, total value of land lost is BDT 2,416,273 million." To comment, go here: http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/12/vpa/ Citizens, Not Enemies by Naeem Mohaiemen Daily Star, December 12, 2008 Debates around religious minorities, in election season and otherwise, focus on anecdotes and analogies– positive and negative. What is largely missing in this discussion is quantitative analysis of the religious minorities status in Bangladesh. The one variation is Professor Abul Barkat, of the Dhaka University Department of Economics. Since the 1990s, Barkat along with his large team of researchers have been applying the methods of economic, statistics and survey research to compile a comprehensive picture of Hindu community status since independence of Bangladesh, especially as it has been impacted by the black law known as Enemy (Vested) Property Act. This work started with a 1997 book "Political Economy of Vested Property Act in Rural Bangladesh" and continued through the 2000 book "An Inquiry into Causes and Consequences of Hindu Minorities in Bangladesh through the Vested Property Act". Thus we consider the most significant development in the area of minority rights was the 2008 publication of Professor Barkat's new book, which is the result of a mammoth, multi-year study looking at the impact of VPA on Hindu property from 1965-2007. This study was organized by ALRD, Nijera Kori and Samata and resulted in the February publication of "Living With Vested Property" (Abul Barkat, Shafique uz Zaman, Md. Shahnewaz Khan, Avijit Poddar, Saiful Hoque, and M. Taher Uddin; Pathak Samabesh Publications, 2008). The Missing Hindu In order to quantify the total loss of Hindu population through forced migration, the study looks at official Population Statistics as well as Tahsil office records. Hindu population, as share of total population, has dropped from 18% in 1961 to 12% in 1981 and finally to 9% in 2001. The rate of decline was most pronounced in six districts: Chandpur, Feni, Jamalpur, Kishoreganj, Kushtia, Pabna and Narayanganj, In the districts which historically had high Hindu population, the average decline over forty years was 12% Looking at the absolute number of Hindu population over forty years is not sufficient to calculate how many of them have left the country. It is also necessary to factor in birth rates. Looking at historic data of lower birth rates among Hindus, Barkat's research assumed 13% lower fertility rate for Hindus compared to Muslims. Factoring this in, the Hindu population should have been 11.4 million in 1971, but it was reported as 9.6 million. By 2001 it should have been 19.5 million, but it was 11.4 million. Looking at the entire time period and doing the same calculation, Barkat estimates the total missing Hindu population from 1964-2001 as 8.1 million, i.e., 218,819 missing Hindus each year. While there are many factors that may have contributed to this ongoing hemorrhaging of the Hindu population, the research team argues that the Vested Property Act is the single largest factor that leads to minority departure from the country. Metamorphosis of Vested Property Act The Vested Property Act started life as "Requisition of Property Act" (Act XIII of 1948), after 2 million Hindus left East Bengal in 1947-48. Giving the power for takeover of abandoned property "needful for the purposes of the state", this act has evolved into something abused by citizen and state from Partition to today's Bangladesh. This law metamorphopsed into "East Bengal Evacuees Act" (1951), "East Pakistan Disturbed Persons Rehabilitation Ordinance" (1964), "Enemy Property Order" (1965), "Bangladesh Vesting of Property and Assets Order" (1972), and finally "Vested and Non-Resident Property Act" (1974). As a result of publication of Barkat's first two studies, and major campaigning around this issue, the 22d session of National Parliament under the Awami League government passed Vested Property Return Act 2001. While this was a first milestone, there were several major flaws: the Act covered only land vested up to February 1969; the original owner or heir is required to have "continuously" resided in Bangladesh; and the owner had to submit claims within 90 days of publication of list of returnable properties. In November 2002, the BNP-Jamaat alliance government passed an amendment to the 2001 Act, which removed all enforcing power from this law. Especially harmful was the clause that gave the government "unlimited time" to publish the list and enforce return of property. Since the passage of this amendment, not a single list has been published, nor any return process initiated in the last six years. Quantification of Impact As part of the multi-year study that led to Professor Barkat and his team's new book, the following data collection instruments were used: primary data via panel studies of 16 districts, follow-up study on households surveyed in 1997 study, Population Census, Land Survey, Bangladesh Bureau of Statistics logs, Tahsil and Thana land revenue records, etc. Below we present the key findings from the study: 1. 43% of all Hindu households (1.2 million) have been affected by EPA/VPA. 57% of households that lost land lost an average of 100 decimals. Survey data shows 33% of affluent Hindu families lost land due to EPA/VPA. 50% of affluent households had at least one close relative who lost land 2. Total area of land lost is 2.01 million acres, which is 5.5% of Bangladesh's total land mass but 45% of land owned by the Hindu community. The survey data shows 22% more land loss than is shown in the official records. According to survey data, the total land lost is 2.6 million. 3. The type of land lost is typically agricultural (80% of total lost land), followed by homestead (11%), pond area (1.2%), orchard (1.7%), and fallow land (0.7%). 4. Assuming average market price of land as seen in the year 2007, total value of land lost is BDT 2,416,273 million. 5. 53% of incidents of dispossession and 74% of total lost land occurred between 1965-1971. After lower rates from 1972-1975, dispossession rates accelerated again from 1975. Even after the "Repeal Act" was passed in 2001, 8% of dispossession incidents occurred between 2001-2006. 6. The most typical methods of land grabbing are influential parties grabbing land in connivance with Tahsin and Thana Revenue Office, death and/or out-migration of members of the Hindu family used as excuse to enlist the whole property, grabbing the land by force, occupying land using forged documents, etc. In an otherwise academic and scientific study, the author displays a rare moment of emotion when he states that the Act has worked as an effective mechanism for "extermination of the Hindu minority from their motherland." Professor Barkat is an academic who has put hard statistics around a complex crisis for the nation's minority community. In this election season, are there politicians out there who have the courage to make complete removal of this black law, and return of all land to dispossessed Hindu families, one of their election manifestos? We're waiting for a politician with the courage to take that principled position. Rather than losing votes, it will gain many votes. Above all, from Bangladesh's millions of secular Muslims who look for a principled position regarding equal treatment for all citizens. Naeem Mohaiemen writes on minorities for the Ain o Salish Kendra Bangladesh Annual Human Rights Report. This text will be part of a longer chapter in the forthcoming 2008 report. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 12 03:31:16 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:01:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC- A number to identify us all. Message-ID: <65be9bf40812111401j4fef4b10ld0bed3116f5df116@mail.gmail.com> According to Managing Director of Courage Capital Management, Jayant Sinha, a national identity card is a 'most valuable public good' hummm interesting!!! Please read on.... T Jayant Sinha: A number to identify us all Jayant Sinha / New Delhi December 06, 2008, 0:47 IST A national identity card will deliver subsidies and even strengthen national security.India does not know who you are. Since we do not have a national identity system, Indians are largely anonymous. A national identity system is a most valuable public good because it generates positive externalities in four major areas: (1) welfare delivery and tax collections, (2) financial inclusion, (3) voter registration, and (4) national security. Many countries such as the USA, UK, France, China, and even Pakistan have implemented national identity systems. The NDA government began the implementation of a universal system through a national identification number (NIN) and a multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC), but in the last five years we have made little progress. Given the massive benefits associated with such a system, we must roll it out nationally within the next two to three years. Various identity systems are in use in India currently, but they are neither universal nor multi-purpose. Such systems include the voter identity card, PAN card, and the passport, which are all photo identity cards. The ration card has no photo identity and is generally used for families, not individuals. Different identity cards are used for central welfare schemes such as the BPL card, the Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana (RSBY health insurance for BPL families), and the Employee State Insurance Card; in addition, there are a variety of cards issued by state governments. Recently, many financial institutions have issued their own identity cards linking their customers to multiple accounts such as a savings account, credit card, and vehicle loans. A universal national identity system must include several elements: (1) total enumeration (assigning unique identity) of the population; (2) personalisation which would enable identification through photo and biometric markers; (3) registration at birth and at 18 years; (4) data management including a national register; and (5) integration with multiple other systems including credit records, government benefits, and voter management. A national identity card could either be delivered through a magnetic stripe card (just like a regular credit card); or better still, through a smart card that contains enough memory and processing capabilities to run multiple applications. A magnetic stripe card costs Rs 10-15 and a smart card costs about Rs 100. Each card would have a photo of the individual, biometric information, and some key data such as name, date of birth, parent's name, and birth city. The first major benefit associated with a national identity system is efficient welfare delivery and tax collection. The NIN could be linked with a bank account so that each citizen would have a government-mandated bank account. All welfare payments and tax collections could be made through this account and the identity card could be used either as a debit card (or a stored value card) against this bank account. These individual accounts would greatly streamline welfare delivery across a wide range of schemes such as mother-child support, kisan credit, student assistance, and micro credit. In fact, FINO (a pioneering company supported by several banks) has already issued two million cards to deliver financial services to "unbanked" customers. All welfare payments would be made through the bank account on a regular basis. In fact, such types of cash transfer schemes are generally considered to be much more efficient and less susceptible to corruption, than various indirect schemes such as the Ration card or the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme. An entire payment processing system could be built to support these cards, so that each Indian could avail of these services. Imagine every store with a payment terminal. Once a customer makes a purchase, the storekeeper would swipe the card through the store's terminal and debit either the stored value on the card or the customer's actual bank account. To prevent fraud, biometric identification (such as thumbprint) or passcodes could be used to authenticate the individual. The NIN would also become the basis for storing credit histories, tracking borrowing and savings behaviour. A national identity system would also be a powerful mechanism for financial inclusion as laid out in the recent Rajan Committee Report on Financial Sector Reforms. Since each individual will have a bank account and a credit history, it will make it possible for them to save and borrow money. Farmers could get bank credit for making agricultural investments and expanding into related businesses like, for instance, animal husbandry. By tying this system to land titles, farmers would also be able to borrow against their property thereby converting a very illiquid asset into a much more productive resource. Micro credit groups could be set up electronically immediately reducing the administrative burden associated with detailed cash record-keeping. Universal voter registration is the third major benefit of a national identity system. Today the Election Commission of India voter identity card is one of the largest databases existing in India, with over 500-million cards with photos issued till date. A national identity card would have information on residential status and therefore voter registration. Citizens would have to go to a registration centre if they changed their residence and update the voter rolls. Finally, a NIN system would be a powerful tool for strengthening national security. All citizens can be identified through a NIN, and it would therefore be easier to track illegal immigration. No mobile phones or bank accounts would be issued without the national identity card. If any mobile phone or bank account was then used for anti-national activities, security authorities would be able to trace it quickly to its owner. Electronic activity linked to a NIN would also leave electronic traces across many systems, making it easier to unravel conspiracies and collusive activities. Obviously, authorities would have to ensure that the identity card could not be easily forged or hacked into. There are many ways to implement a national identity system, ranging from a centralised authority to decentralised issuance by several agencies linked by common standards and consolidated data sharing. But it is entirely doable. One of the best national systems has been installed by the Government of Pakistan. They have a universal smart-card for storing photo and fingerprint information, supported by a very robust centralised database and a network of local offices. A similar system must be implemented through a National Mission as soon as possible. Once India knows who you are, help can reach you. The author is Managing Director of Courage Capital Management, a global investment firm. Views are personal From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 12 03:49:02 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:19:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Bartronics bets big on national I-card project (MNIC) Message-ID: <65be9bf40812111419i61af88a0i72dac7c3260cb08a@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, It seems that the national identity card project in India share a special relationship with 'big events'. If the -Kargil War- was instrumental in initiating the process for a National Identification Card then it seems that the recent Mumbai terror attacks is going to bring good news to the industry. Please read the story below about Bartonics, a Hyderabad based company and its expectations of a big order from the Indian Government regarding the manufacture of National identity cards. Regards Taha Bartronics bets big on national I-card project KV Ramana Tuesday, December 09, 2008 03:26 IST http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1212455 HYDERABAD: Hyderabad-based Bartronics India is pinning hopes on the government's Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC) project for the biggest revenue boost it can ever get. The MNIC project was initiated during the National Democratic Alliance regime in 2002 but has been moving at a snail's pace due to bureaucratic reasons. However, after the Mumbai terror attacks, the project is all set to become a priority for the government. Sudhir Rao, managing director, Bartronics, said, "We are expecting an announcement shortly on the project, which would be the largest the company can ever expect." The project involves issuance of a smart card to every citizen of India, with all the data about the individual stored on a microprocessor. The project is expected to be completed in five years. According to Rao, Bartronics has been involved in the project since its initial days and had worked closely with the National Informatics Centre on setting the basic standards for the card. "As per government requirements, each card would cost about Rs 57 and that, multiplied with India's total population, would be the project cost," he said. The project has already been rolled out on a pilot basis in 14 districts. The card's chip will contain biometric data about the cardholder, including fingerprints and iris info and will have the capacity to hold this data for 10 years. Though IT majors such as TCS may participate in the project once it's announced, Bartronics feels it has an edge due to its early involvement. "Even if we get the entire project, it will be difficult for us to manage it. The roll-out, which is complex and involves high levels of manpower, needs many participants," Rao said. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 09:45:28 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:45:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812112015r2e4a1a23x4f46325311a4ba22@mail.gmail.com> Javed, You seem to have a strong misconception. Kindly again read my e-mail and then probably re-read it thoroughly to understand the lines better. My argument wasn't on when those groups came into existence; but who 'ínitiated' extremism and terrorism. Kindly re-check. For Example: If I quote Kashmir (which is dear to me). JKLF was the puppet group which launched selective killing drive in 1989. They of course got moral, physical and financial support from Pakistan. Hope this is easy to understand now. Also, kindly read history, as to why these Hindu groups were formed and only then would you get an insight into it and not demand a vague ban on these groups. Pakistan has been a global den of Íslamic Terrorists. They started their communal tirade from Kashmir, and today have launched their bloody path across India. This strategy needs to be understood and not defended by 'self-styled activists''. I'm not ready in anyway to compare LeT with RSS. RSS has been much better then even many political parties in India, spreading awareness and their tremendous social work. In this way, before RSS; CPI and SFI need to be banned along with this Reader's List. Anyone there to take this campaign now ? On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Aditya > If you want to go in the chronological order, (you mentioned > "initiators"), then look at some dates of when these organizations > started. Let us start banning them one by one, according to how old > they are: > > Abhinav Bharat (Veer Savarkar): 1907 > RSS (Hedgewar): 1930-40s > Jana Sangha (precursor to BJP): 1951 > Vishwa Hindu Parishad: 1964 > Shiva Sena: 1966 > > JKLF: 1977 > SFI: 1970 > AISA: early 1990s > Hurriyat Conference: 1993 > Lashkar-e Taiba: 1980s > Taliban: 1994 > Al-Qaeda: 1988 > Indian Mujahideen (2008) > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > > > > 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > > 2) Hurriyat Conference > > 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > > 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > > 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > > 6) CPI > > ..................there are many more. > > > > Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant > provocation. > > > > Anybody initiating this movement ? > > > > I'm all ears.. > > > > Thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: > >> > >> There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and > >> banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I > >> think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror > >> outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement > >> should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? > >> > >> > >> Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani > >> 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > >> > >> ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security > >> Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > >> charity > >> Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government > >> said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > >> > >> The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN > >> Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the > >> group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as > >> its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. > >> > >> "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has > >> taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by > >> the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would > >> fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 09:48:21 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:48:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> Dear Srirang, Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' which is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation in India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally extremist. Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha wrote: > Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries to > justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because action is > being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish Javed > could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist organizations > should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. > > Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is befitting. > > Srirang Jha > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >> >> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >> 2) Hurriyat Conference >> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >> 6) CPI >> ..................there are many more. >> >> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >> provocation. >> >> Anybody initiating this movement ? >> >> I'm all ears.. >> >> Thanks >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >> > >> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and >> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I >> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror >> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement >> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >> > >> > >> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >> > >> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security >> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >> > charity >> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government >> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >> > >> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the >> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as >> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >> > >> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has >> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by >> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would >> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 10:28:02 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:28:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tackling Terrorism Message-ID: Tackling Terrorism: A Call To Hindu And Muslim Religious Leaders Maulana Waris Mazhari (Translated by Yoginder Sikand) The recent assault on Mumbai is the most deadly terrorist attack that India has witnessed so far, and it has shaken every Indian. Every one of us is asking how it is that we have become so vulnerable and what it is that we must do to confront this situation. It has become a sort of fad to blame politicians for all our ills and problems. This is a very superficial and limited approach to understanding and tackling the menace of terrorism. Obviously, the problem cannot be solved simply by blaming politicians and ignoring various other causes that lie behind it. The media has characterized 26/11 as India¹s 9/11, and it is true that in its seriousness this deadly assault is very similar to the dastardly events of 9/11 that struck America. It clearly appears to be the handiwork of some Pakistan-based outfit. Given the sort of evidence that is emerging, this appears to be undeniable. However, I think that we should also explore the possibility that some other forces, such as the Pakistani, American or Israeli secret services, might have used some self-styled Islamist jihadist elements, which are notorious for their extremism and anti-India hatred, for this purpose. The very psyche of these self-proclaimed jihadist groups has been fashioned in such a way by their extreme emotionalism and simplistic approach to the world that they can easily be manipulated by such agencies to promote their interests. This is precisely what one version of the story of 9/11 seeks to argue‹that the role of powerful intelligence outfit using certain elements within ultra-jihadist outfits in the Arab world to perpetrate the attacks cannot be ruled out. In this regard it is crucial to note that these self-styled jihadists are now not restricted to just jihadist outfits. Because of very strict controls on and actions against these groups them throughout the world, many self-styled jihadists have been scattered all over and are floating around, and so can easily be trapped and used by others as well for their own nefarious purposes. The threat posed by self-styled jihadist outfits to Pakistan itself is very real. Influential sections of the Pakistani state as well as many ordinary Pakistanis are simply sick and tired of these groups and the deadly gun culture that they have fomented. Many Pakistanis feel very insecure in the face of these groups and their activities. There is thus no doubt that there is an element of truth in the Pakistani Government¹s admission that terrorism has become a major problem for both India as well as Pakistan. But for the Pakistani Government to put an end to terrorism in the country or for Pakistani secular civil society groups and serious-minded Islamic clerics or ulema to marginalize them is as difficult as it is for the Indian state to clamp down effectively on Indian Hindu extremist groups or for secular-minded Hindus to galvanise public opinion to marginalize, politically and socially, Hindu extremists. In both Pakistan and India, despite the vocal or tacit opposition of the vast majority of people, extremists who have adopted the guise of religion have been able to strike very deep roots. Just as ardent supporters of Narendra Modi and his likes have millions of supporters in India, self-styled jihadist groups have a large number of backers in Pakistan. This fact alone should suffice to make us realize that both Islamist and Hindu extremists feed on each other and collectively pose the gravest danger to the people of South Asia as a whole. Terrorism and religious extremism have assumed the form of deep-rooted social phenomenon in our part of the world, and so obviously cannot be countered simply through a law-and-order approach alone. Merely banning terrorist groups, sealing their bank accounts and arresting their activists is not enough. Such steps can only work in the short-term and that too not very effectively. Wee must realise that terrorism in South Asia is not an issue that concerns just one country or community, and that all forms of terrorism are inter-related. It is a common problem that concerns all the countries of the region and all the different religious communities that reside therein. We must also seek to understand the factors other than just political that are also responsible for generating terrorism, such as illiteracy, poverty, social inequality, unemployment and violation of human rights and moral values. Hence, and obviously, to seriously tackle terrorism from its roots a mere political approach would be inadequate. We also need to address these other underlying causes as well. This points to the need for civil society groups, in both India and Pakistan, to take a leading role in social activism against the menace of terrorism. Terrorism must be viewed as a social phenomenon, and, accordingly, must be sought to be countered through a strong and effective social movement, besides at the level of the state. For this purpose, we need to chalk out a non-political programme that would bring together civil society groups as well as serious-minded religious leaders from the different communities in the region in a joint struggle against all forms of terrorism that are causing such havoc all across South Asia today. Perhaps this could take the form of a ŒSouth Asian Forum Against Terrorism¹. Through such a forum it would be easier for us to appeal to Hindus and Muslims throughout our region with our message against terrorism. The most important role in this forum, I feel, should be that of responsible and right-minded Muslim ulema and Hindu religious personages such as dharmacharyas. Some months ago, the Dar ul-Uloom Deband organized a massive rally, bringing together clerics from different Muslim sects to jointly issue a declaration or fatwa condemning all forms of terrorism and declaring these to be anti-Islamic. This was a very welcome step. Such mass rallies can be organized throughout South Asia by the Forum that I have suggested, wherein Hindu and Muslim religious leaders can jointly denounce terrorism and call upon Hindu, Muslims and others to join them in the struggle against it. If the leading responsible Muslim ulema and muftis of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh can jointly directly address jihadist Muslims and explain to them the errors of their views, it can have a very big impact on their thinking. They can thereby underline the gross misuse of the concept of jihad, which is now causing such pain, destruction and strife not just for non-Muslims but for Muslims themselves. Likewise, if the Hindu religious leaders of the countries of South Asia get together and declare that the fiercely anti-Muslim activities of extremists in a Hindu garb constitute a grave violation of the Hindu religion, it can certainly impress many Hindus. This sort of effort can play a major role in bringing Hindus and Muslims closer and solving many of their problems and conflicts. It can help build confidence and trust between Hindus and Muslims and between Pakistanis and Indians and in marginalizing the religious extremists on both sides. Two weeks ago more than 60 Pakistani Muslim ulema from different sects issued a joint fatwa, through the United Ulema Council, condemning the spread of terror and strife in the name of jihad. They denounced the wave of suicide bombings that are now occurring with such frightening regularity in that country. They also declared that it was not permissible for non-state actors to declare jihad. From this, one can gauge how major a menace and threat to their country and to Islam many serious-minded Pakistani Islamic scholars and leaders regard the ŒNew Taliban¹ and other such crazed fanatics as. If such serious Pakistani religious leaders can be made part of a joint Indian-Pakistani civil society mass movement against terrorism it can make a very great impact. I have another suggestion to make. In recent years, Saudi Arabia and several other Arab countries have imposed a very strict ban on jihadist literature. Just last week, the Saudi government banned the keeping of some books by Syed Qutb, a key Egyptian Islamist ideologue, and some other such writers in schools. Can we not, with the help of some governments, seek to exercise pressure on the Pakistani Government to ban completely the massive amount of jihadist literature that is freely available in that country? But, of course, for this we would also need to look within, at our own selves, to the freely available and equally venomous sort of literature that is being produced by some fascist Hindutva outfits in India. I wish to cite the example of two notable Indian religious leaders‹one an Arya Samajist, the other a Muslim‹ who have been playing a leading role in promoting communal harmony and inter-community dialogue as well as struggling against all forms of terrorism. The first of these is Swami Agnivesh, whom I had the good fortune to meet some days ago at his office in New Delhi. He passionately spoke about how he was working together with some Muslim ulema for communal harmony and had participated in their mass rallies to condemn terrorism unleashed by both Hindu and Muslim fanatic groups. He sharply berated fascist Hindutva forces for unleashing a reign of terror in India, and condemned this as anti-Hindu. The other Indian religious leader whose efforts I would like to cite here is the noted Delhi-based Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan, with whom I had the honour of working for some time. He has been consistently denouncing so-called jihadist tendencies, branding this form of terrorism as wholly anti-Islamic. I am sure there must be many other such Hindu and Muslim religious leaders in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. An effective, well-organised anti-terrorism forum bringing together such people can make a major breakthrough in our joint struggle against the terrorist menace. Maulana Waris Mazhari, a graduate of the Dar ul-Ulum Deoband and the Nadwat ul-Ulema madrasa, Lucknow, is the editor of the Delhi-based Urdu magazine Tarjuman Dar ul-Ulum, the official organ of the Deoband madrasa¹s Graduates Association. He can be contacted on mazhariwaris at gmail.com From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 11:16:22 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:16:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves, and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be honest and just in this case. Javed On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Srirang, > > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' which > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation in > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally extremist. > > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. > > Thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha wrote: > >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries to >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because action is >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish Javed >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist organizations >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is befitting. >> >> Srirang Jha >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >>> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >>> 6) CPI >>> ..................there are many more. >>> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >>> provocation. >>> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >>> >>> I'm all ears.. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >>> > >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >>> > >>> > >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >>> > >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >>> > charity >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >>> > >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >>> > >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 11:33:13 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:03:13 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <306351.16679.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <418f44e20812100340h66edd51dm110c59e8b55f5218@mail.gmail.com> <306351.16679.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812112203g5604dcecke76841b5daa0e32f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kashmendra, I dont know the the history of the Hazratbal hair. but you are overstating or even misstating the shia sunni divide on the question of Hussain. Most sunnis revere Hussain and his fight to death against Yazid son of Muawiya. During the Muharram month/s you will hear Sunni sermons eulogizing the sacrifice and mourning the deaths of the prophet's family and friends. The account of the events by Zainul abedin (the next Imam, and Hussain's son) of the events is read as a text in sunni religious seminaries. Sunnis may also participate with Taziyas and attend 'Shia' Majalis, or just watch them on TV etc. They may or may not accord the same level of reverence to karbala as shias, some of whom also go overboard with the case. That said, there are certain sunni sub-sects, among them particularly the ahle Hadith (aka wahhabi), and certain historical naqshbandis (mujaddid alf saani) who may consider shias heretics, kaafirs etc, virtually on par with deniers such as 'hindus'. I dont think this strain is the most common although occasionally one runs into them - most are in the consensual middle. Not surprisingly this strain (the tendency you have described) is around in jihadist / extremist outfits. best On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Interesting comment by Nonica Dutt the "Hussaini Brahmin" has been quoted > by Intizar Hussain in his article. She says: > > """"""" We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a > hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. > She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with > her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she > said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans. """"" > > This would totally shake up the edifice of the 'organised sectarian > religious divides' amongst the Muslims of Kashmir and especially lead to > unimaginable conflict between the Sunnis and Shias. > > The Muslims of Kashmir have their faith firmly invested in the belief that > the 'ensconced hair' in the Hazratbal 'shrine' is from (the beard or head) > of Mohammed the Last Prophet for Muslims. For someone to suggest that the > 'hair' is of Imam Hussain would be considered sacrilegious.Blasphemous > perhaps. > > Also that Hazratbal as an institution is under Sunni control. Imam > Husaain is not the most favourite of persons for the Sunnis even if he was > the grandson of Mohammed (through his daughter Fatima and Ali the Fourth > Khalifa). > > Ali (the father of Hussain) is considered by Shias as the First Imam and > rightful inheritor of Mohammed's worldly empire. They consider the first > three Khalifas to be usurpers who stole from Ali his right of being the > First Khalifa. > > Some ideological elements amongst Shias have even a more extreme viewpoint > about what Ali's position in Islam should be (in comparison to Mohammed). > > The Battle of Karbala where Hussain was killed is a significant happening > in the divide between Shias and Sunnis with Hussain on the opposite side of > the allegiances for the Muaviyah and Yazeed. The Battle of Karbala > (arguably) concretised the separation between the Sunni and Shia sects > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar wrote: > > From: prabhat kumar > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:10 PM > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Ali Usman Qasmi > Date: 2008/12/10 > Subject: Re: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins > To: prabhat kumar , Shoumen > > > > Thanks for the link. Following is an article by Intizar Hussain, the best > known Urdu novelist of our times. I came to know about the Hussaini > Brahmins > from his article. > > COLUMN: Brahmans in Karbala > By Intizar Husain > > > LITERARY NOTES > > The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten > Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam > Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely > and > resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a > heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. > > WITH the arrival of Muharram this year, I was reminded of an encounter I > had > with an unusual, intelligent girl in Delhi who asserted that she was a > Husaini Brahman. I recall referring to Prem Chand's play 'Karbala' > in one of > my addresses, which was based on a legend. The legend was about a group of > eight Hindu brothers who had somehow reached Karbala determined to die > fighting for the cause that Imam Husain stood for. They fought bravely and > sacrificed their lives in devotion to Imam Husain. It was in this context > that I was talking about Husaini Brahmans, who seemed to have vanished from > the social scene in India. > > All of a sudden, a girl from among the audience stood up and challenged my > statement. She said, 'Here I am before you. My name is Nonica Dutt. I > belong > to a Husaini Brahman family.' It was clearly a pleasant surprise for me, > something like discovering a rare bird while walking through a jungle. > > The girl promised me an exclusive meeting to enlighten me with interesting > information about the Husaini Brahmanian background of her family. But the > proposed meeting kept on being postponed for one reason or the other. > Finally, on the last day of my stay in Delhi, I received a call from her. > > 'Let us meet now,' she said > > 'But I have no evening to spare for you. Today is the last day of my stay > in > your city,' I said. > > 'But I am already in the lounge and I must meet you,' she said. > > So we finally had a meeting. She entered my room with two large volumes > under her arm. I proposed a detailed sitting on my next visit, which was > due > after a month or so. 'But in the coming months, I will not be in Delhi. I > am > moving to Germany and will spend four months at the Humboldt University.' > Nonica Dutt taught history at Jawahar Lal University and had been honoured > with a fellowship from the Humboldt University. Hence she was on her way to > Germany. > > 'I,' she said, 'told my mother about your comments regarding > Husaini > Brahamans and how I introduced myself as one. To that she said, did you > tell > him that we don't perform the rituals the Brahmans are obliged to perform. > That we don't go to the temples?' > > 'Should I presume from this,' I asked, 'that you have turned > Muslim.' > > 'No, we are not Muslims,' she exclaimed. > > 'Then what are you?' I inquired. > > 'We are Husaini Brahmans,' she said with a certain sense of pride and > added, > 'Now, I will tell you about a sign each and every Husaini Brahman carries > with him/her. On his/her throat s/he bears a line of cutting, which is > indicative of the fact that s/he is the descendant of those Brahmans whose > throats were cut in the battle of Karbala.' Then she told me about the > ritual carried out on the birth of every child in her family. She said, > 'Among Brahmans, after child birth, the ritual of Moondan is performed. In > our family this ritual is performed in the name of Imam Husain.' > > She then went on to tell me the historical facts. 'I will now tell you > about > the history of our martyred forefathers.' Pointing to the two books placed > on the table she said, 'our entire history is conserved within these two > books. When needed, I will quote from them.' Considering their worn out and > pale pages, the books, which were written in English, seemed to be > centuries > old. > > The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten > Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam > Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely > and > resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a > heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. From Karbala he > escaped to Kufa, where he stayed for some time. It is said that Rahib had > the privilege of meeting the members of the Imam's family after the > massacre. He introduced himself by saying, 'I am a Brahman from > Hindustan.' > The reply came, 'Now you are Husaini Brahman. We will always remember > you.' > > Rahib went from Kufa to Afghanistan, and from there came back to India > where > he stayed for a few days in Nankana. Nonica paused for a while and then > spoke, 'In the Sialkot district there is a town known as Viran Vatan. That > place is our ancestral home. We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had > brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal > shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had > brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These > couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans.' > > Nonica shut the book and said 'Let me inform you that Sunil Dutt was also a > Husaini Brahman. And the father of Nargis too was a Husaini Brahman.' > > She got up saying 'Now I must go.' > > 'I think,' I said, 'after you return from Germany, I should make a > point to > come to Delhi so that you can introduce me to your father. I will perhaps > be > able to know much more about your ancestors from him.' > > She said goodbye and left hurriedly. I had been under the impression that > the story of the eight Brahmins was just a legend. But Nonica firmly > believed that it is a historical fact. And it is the belief of Nonica and > her community that really counts. For them the event is a reality. > > > > > --- On *Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar * wrote: > > From: prabhat kumar > Subject: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins > To: "Ali Usman Qasmi" , "soumen > mukherjee" < > soumenm.2 at gmail.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 4:21 PM > > > I found something coincidentally on Hussaini-Dutt Brahmins in reader list > of > SARAI, CSDS!! > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600 > From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" > Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > December 08, 2008 > > When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr > > Ruchira Paul > > > http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html > > > Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid > al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, > December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament > and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. > > I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American > documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few > months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ > Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the > Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to > describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little > known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for > decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. > > The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls > from practically every part of India belonging to several different > linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi > and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral > homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In > middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the > Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's > family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the > partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. > We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales > from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story > acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in > Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in > particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the > remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not > a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. > > My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more > communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, > along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to > commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in > the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle > among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: > > > > Wah Dutt Sultan, > > Hindu ka Dharam > > Musalman ka Iman, > > > > Wah Dutt Sultan > > Adha Hindu Adha Musalman > > > > [Oh, Dutt the king, > > follows the religion of the Hindu > > And the faith of the Muslim. > > > > Oh, Dutt the king, > > He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] > > > > I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. > Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of > today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow. I was born a > few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and > psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides > of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there > probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling > communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and > alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and > Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in > concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat > flowery text: > > > > The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim > Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation > Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, > some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an > ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal > identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the > logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. > And so, > these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled > the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, > or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it > was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same > time. > > > > I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the > complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved > simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of > food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious > celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a > powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and > revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present > mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also > many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model > for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. > > > > Eid Mubarak to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to > rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. > > > ------------------------------ > -- > Prabhat Kumar > Ph.D. Student, > Department of History, > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > > > > > > -- > Prabhat Kumar > Ph.D. Student, > Department of History, > South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, > Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, > 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. > Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 > FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 12:14:29 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:44:29 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Terror in India not linked to Kashmir: Pranab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pakistan's attempts to relate Jihadi terrorism to its claim over Kashmir is preposterous.Terror trail invariably leads to Kashmir & then to Pakistan & POK. Kashmiri Pan Islamists fighting for scession of Muslim majority Kashmir valley from secular India are responsible for the induction of jihadi terrorism in India. Regards LA > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:17:11 +0530> From: javedmasoo at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Terror in India not linked to Kashmir: Pranab> > Terror in India not linked to Kashmir: Pranab> 11 Dec 2008, 1651 hrs IST, PTI> > NEW DELHI: Slamming Pakistan for linking Mumbai attacks to> non-resolution of Kashmir issue, India on Thursday asked it to take> "serious" action> to completely dismantle terror infrastructure and end infiltration but> maintained that war against the neighbour was not a solution.> > Talking tough in the Lok Sabha, external affairs minister Pranab> Mukherjee raised questions over Pakistan's sincerity in curbing> activities of terror groups operating from its soil as he suggested> that "house arrest" of Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed was not> enough.> > Intervening in the debate in Lok Sabha on Mumbai attacks, he said> India has repeatedly given Pakistan a list of 40 terrorists, including> Dawood Ibrahim, with a demand that they be handed over and expressed> hope that Islamabad would respond positively.> > He asked Pakistan to come out of the "denial mode" on existence of> terrorists, including "non-state actors", who operate from the> confines of that country as he wondered: "did the non-state actors> come from heaven, did the non-state actors come from another planet?"> > Mukherjee also slammed Pakistan for creating a war "hysteria" by> indulging in "propaganda" on the basis of a hoax call that "big power"> India was going to attack.> > "That is not the solution," he said when Shiv Sena member Mohan Rawale> said India should attack Pakistan in the wake of the terror strikes.> > Rubbishing efforts by Pakistan to link the terror strikes to> non-resolution of Kashmir issue, Mukherjee asserted that such a> "straight jacket simple formula" will not help solve the problem as> the series of attacks in India are part of global terrorism.> > "It (attacks) is not related to Jammu and Kashmir issue. It is part of> global terrorism," Mukherjee said in the House amid repeated thumping> of desks, significantly on both ruling and opposition sides.> > "I don't believe in straight jacket formula. It is not as simple. It> is complex...It is not that if Kashmir issue is solved, everything> will be in place," the external affairs minister said.> > Referring to the "solemn assurances" given by the then President> Pervez Musharraf and his successor President Asif Ali Zardari to end> terrorism emanating from Pakistan, he said "expression of intent is> not sufficient" and that Islamabad needs to "act" to convincing> levels.> > He pointed to the "house arrest" of LeT chief and said it was "not> convincing" as even after the reported action by Pakistani> authorities, Saeed was appearing on TV channels.> > "What does house arrest mean? Laws, Indian Penal Code, in Pakistan are> the same as in India, the names may be different. He should be either> in judicial or police custody," Mukherjee said.> > Suggesting that Pakistan could be indulging in non-serious actions> against terrorism, he said the "same scenes were played out after the> attack on Parliament in December 2001... The Lashkar-e-Taiba was> banned but it changed name, the signboards were changed but the faces,> ideology and activities remained the same."> > Demanding complete dismantling of terror infrastructure existing in> territories under Pakistan's control and end to infiltration, he told> Islamabad "Please follow up seriously... it (action) should be taken> to its logical conclusion."> > "It is not India-Pakistan issue, not a Jammu and Kashmir issue...> Terrorism is not confined to borders of any country. It is> international phenomenon," Mukherjee said, describing terrorism as the> biggest threat to the world post-Cold War.> > Noting that terrorists have struck in important tourist place Jaipur,> science and technology hub Bangalore, industrial hub Ahmedabad and> financial capital Mumbai during the year, the external affairs> minister said there is a "design" and "method" behind these attacks.> > "We tell Pakistan, please do not deny facts. Accept it," he said, as> he observed that there was a "sense of anger and outrage" in India> over the Mumbai attacks and people want the government to "rise to the> occasion" and send a "resolute message" to Pakistan.> > During the debate which saw unusual unity between ruling and> opposition benches, Mukherjee asserted that India will not allow its> "territorial sovereignty and integrity to be played with" and "nobody> should dare to attack us. This message must be conveyed."> > Apparently hinting at the disconnect between the political leadership> and military establishment in Pakistan that allows terrorists to> operate from that country, he said Islamabad needs to address its> internal problems and that New Delhi was ready to help in this regard.> > Seeking to highlight this aspect, he said Prime Minister Manmohan> Singh was promised that Director General of ISI would visit India to> help in probe into Mumbai attacks. "But within hours, it was denied.> It may be Pakistan's internal problem. They have to solve it.> International community should help."> > Underlining that India was in the process of building an international> campaign to highlight the fact that terrorism against this country is> emanating from Pakistan, Mukherjee said majority of the world leaders> he spoke to agreed that Mumbai terror attackers came from Pakistan.> > He, however, said India has to deal with Pakistan patiently as it is a> neighbour which cannot be changed.> > "I am not indulging in jingoism. I am simply expressing my anger. We> have to deal with the situation. We cannot change our neighbours. The> issues cannot be ducked. The issues cannot be sidelined," Mukherjee> said.> > "Whatever be the depth of our anger, it is a phenomenon which cannot> be switched on or off. We have to patiently deal with it.> > "Those who talk of thousand years of war after failing to win in an> open battle field did it with an objective to cause great harm to this> country. We are not provoked. We have no intention to be provoked," he> said.> > The minister said India has already expressed anger and outrage to> Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks in which foreigners were targeted for> the first time.> > He said that 26 foreigners from 13 countries were killed in the> attacks and said he had conveyed to their countries regret for not> being able to protect the "guests".> > The attack was planned and the terrorists came from Pakistan, he said> adding, even during the operation their controllers in Pakistan were> guiding them as action was shown live on television.> > Mukherjee criticised news channels for live coverage of the three-day> long operation to "enhance" viewership at the cost of national> interest and said there was need to "draw a line".> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3823846,flstry-1.cms> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other wood, only on Live.com http://www.live.com/?scope=video&form=MICOAL From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 12 14:07:35 2008 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:37:35 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Paul Virilio: Panic City (blurb) Message-ID: <20081212083735.GA95126@xs4all.nl> Following on what Saskia Sassen wrote in nettime (*) on the aftermath of Mumbai 11/26, it might be nice to read what paul Virilio had to say as blurb/intro to his 2004 "Ville panique" book. (*) Thread starts here: http://tinyurl.com/6xer7y ----------- Place of the emergence of the political, the COSMOPOLIS is also where strategy, geopolitics and geostrategy merge in its walls, its towers, its road system, and its Maidans. Since 2001 however, the nature of this geographic dimension to conflicts has been profoundly altered,, so much so that the METROPOLITICAL concentration now has superseded the nations' GEOPOLITICS of old. The massive attack on New York has indeed inaugurated, after Hiroshima, the era of the "unbalance of terror", nullyfying not only the strategic importance of the number of adversaries on the battlefield, but also of the battlefield's expance itself. By concentrating the shock and awe effect on the very denseness of the metropoles, the suicidal character of this type of attacks has ruined in one go both the _military_ nature of war, and the _political_ essence of the City. This is an unprecedented historic event, where the known ennemy vanishes at the same time as the very possibility of whatever form of victory... since one cannot possibly win a war in which the so-called ennemy remains undefined. After the demise of the geopolitics of East vs West 'block' which rested on the MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) doctrine, this fledgeling third millenium sees the sudden emergence of a new type of MASS KILLER, as the terrorist's suicide replaces the battlefield death of the citizen-soldier. Without formal declaration of war, without flags and standarts, without assumed name, and more importantly, without battle(field), and in the absence of any kind of political programme, the _mass killer_, making use, of weapons of massive destruction, is able to extinguish all life in the City, and thereby closes the era of the geopolitics of the world war, in order to usher that of the globalisation of a _metropolitical terrorism_ where the loss of the territorial extension of nations as strategic asset is being 'compensated' by the critical mass of megametropolitan concentrations nobody is properly able to govern. Paul Virilio, Backcover of Ville panique - Ailleurs commence ici Paris: Galilee, 2004 From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 14:59:50 2008 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:59:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar In-Reply-To: <431215.84804.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00812090616m14887a7vdbb5492ae0d74255@mail.gmail.com> <431215.84804.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00812120129ncc47eacy6b59ee2139b47935@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshemendra, Respects to Ayesha Akram. I think you completely missed the point. The western journalist need not be from Europe or America. It is a worldview. (Weltanschauung in German. Very popular word during the Nazi Germany) First lets see what we are arguing about. The ANI reports very clearly states things like safe houses, bushy beards and all those things that have been used in the report to create the ambience of talking to the militiamen: 1. "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington Times' quoted the Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near Lahore. 2. He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as he spoke. 3. Jihad being epitome of good Muslim. How many of you know what is being good Muslim, good Christian and good whatever … what is so good about being good? Can you answer this? These reports when they get published in Europe or America, the first thing that they (those who believe in the world view of Europe and America) think: "Oh these poor countries. Lets go solve their problems. Lets first carpet bomb the area, those who are affected, we shall give them aid and we will all be a part of the peaceful globe." This is the thought that brought American/Russians to Afghanistan, England to Argentina, Americans (again) to Honduras, Nicaragua, Polynesia, and Columbia. Name a conflict zone, these people are seen as there – the do-gooders. And very rightly you have said Kshemendra, the jehadists preaching violence are problem. However, there is silent reactionary force also armed with nuke, all things grotesque… that would not need an excuse (as if they needed one while bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Although the only saving grace in the report was the useful piece of information that Kashmiri boys orphaned during the earthquake are now being used by Lashkar. Since news is for the public, therefore I have criticised as my experience (of not being someone from media) should count as opposed to dingy room and bushy beards. My friends who had just finished their MBAs from Lahore university are now angry about the fact that inspite of the presence of such a large group of liberal and free thinking people, it is the jehadists and the extremists that gets projected in the media across the world. They were very critical about this interestedness of the global media in Pakistan being always portrayed as a harbour for terrorists. Cheers Anupam On 12/11/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > The Washington Times report was written by Ayesha Akram. > > The name does not sound as belonging to what you called "... a typical > western > journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head." > > You yourself on the other hand have ascribed quotes to the ANI report that > are not to be found anywhere in the report. Seems like it is you who has > imagined things out of your head. > > The problem is not in what Non-Muslims think "Jihad" is all about. The > problem is in what some of the Muslims themselves believe and how they > interpret "Jihad" and accordingly preach it, propagate it and follow the > path of mindless violence. > > Kshmendra > > --- On *Tue, 12/9/08, anupam chakravartty * wrote: > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: > Lashkar > To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:46 PM > > "He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for > the interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as > he spoke." > > > I am sorry to say but this looks like the work of a typical western > journalist stuck in Islamabad and imagining things out of his/her head. I > doubt the credibility of this report on the grounds that it was clearly > inspired from a Frederick Forsythe novel. > > The statement, "we are still well organised and active" is so absurd. > The > reporter calls the person a "coodinator" and then asks if they are > not > organised or active. How bizzare. (And how can we forget the cliche -- safe > houses) > > "They are concentrated on the tribal areas of Western provinces of > Pakistan": Even american missles knew about this. Where is the news here? > > Also very conspiratorially the reporter states the problem of Jihad with a > quote from the so-called coordinator, stating the same shit (sorry but it's > true) we have been getting on television and newspaper. If Jihad is epitome > of good muslim, then the reporter should have also stated in a responsible > manner that the Holy Koran has a very different connotation of Jehad as > opposed to what a lot of non-muslims think of. > > ANI is a prestigious news organisation. Care must be taken not to make half > hearted attempts to report about the real issues behind the pall of such > calamity. My point here is if you have called it extremism, used phrases > like jehad, holy war, fundamentalism, and other such things, then you must > investigate why so many are becoming a part of this agenda. what makes > a pashtoon from waziristan take up arms, who is capable of tilling the arid > soils single handedly? > > > > On 12/9/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > > > Arrests won't affect us, jihad will continue: Lashkar > > ANI > > *New Delhi/ Lahore* A Lashkar-e-Toiba coordinator has said that the arrest > > of at least 20 Jamaat-ud-Dawa activists, including the purported > mastermind > > of the Mumbai terror attacks, Zaki-u-Rehman Lakhvi, on the outskirts of > > Muzaffarabad, will not stop the militant outfit from continuing with its > > activities. > > > > "We are still well-organized and active," the 'Washington > Times' quoted the > > Lashkar coordinator, as saying during an interaction at a safe house near > > Lahore. > > > > The Lashkar fighter in Lahore said the group has "huge strength" > and is > > concentrated in Pakistan's tribal areas on the border with > Afghanistan. > > > > He ran his fingers through his bushy beard as he sat in a dingy room for > > the > > interview, surrounded by boys' ages 15 to 20 that listened intently as > he > > spoke. > > > > The man stood uncomfortably against the wall throughout the interview, his > > eyes avoiding contact with the interviewer. > > > > "The Lashkar definitely has the capability and the capacity to > conduct > > attacks such as those which took place in Mumbai," said Rasool Baksh > Raees, > > a political science professor at the Lahore University of Management > > Sciences. > > > > The Lashkar organizer denied that the group had to purchase recruits. > > "Young > > boys come to us usually because their friends have convinced them, because > > they believe jihad is the epitome of being a good Muslim or because their > > families are involved," he said. > > > > Sharmeen Obaid, a filmmaker who has covered jihadists in Pakistan > > extensively, said that selling boys into jihad is a common practice. > > > > "It's happening more and more nowadays as people become more > desperate for > > money in Pakistan," she said. > > > > "After the [2007 Kashmir] earthquake when a large number of children > became > > orphans, I was told that a number of them were sold to organizations such > > as > > Lashkar," she added. > > > > She said the price for one recruit could range from 10,000 to 19,000 > > dollars. "Sufi shrines and mosques are usual meeting grounds for > young > > boys," the Lashkar organizer said. > > > > However, Yahya Muhammed, a spokesman for Lashkar-e-Taiba, has denied that > > the organization has training camps. > > > > "The Jamaat-ud-Dawa was formed in 1986, while the Lashkar-e-Toiba was > > formed > > in 1986 and our main aim was to help our Kashmiri brothers," he said. > > > > *India can't question Lashkar commander, says Pakistan* > > > > Pakistan ruled out giving India access to Lashkar-e-Toiba commander Zakiur > > Rehman Lakhwi, who is alleged to be behind the Mumbai terror strikes, > > saying > > questioning could be done only by Pakistani authorities to ascertain > > whether > > he had any link to the attacks. > > > > Pakistan Defence Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar said India's > 'concerns' > > can be discussed through a joint investigation mechanism which Islamabad > > has > > proposed to be set up to probe the Mumbai attacks. > > > > "May be we can have a joint investigation mechanism and find out who > these > > culprits are," Mukhtar told a TV channel. > > > > He said Pakistani officials will question Lakhwi, who was arrested in the > > crackdown against terrorists, to find out whether there is any linkage to > > the Mumbai terror attacks. > > > > Lakhwi's name figured during questioning of Ajmal Kasab, the only > terrorist > > caught during the Mumbai attacks, by Indian investigators. > > > > "We do not have to rush into things. We have to move slowly to get > hold of > > the right kind of people who could be involved or are alleged to be > > involved > > (in Mumbai attacks). I really do not know who they are. We are trying to > > find out. We will find out. There is no reason why we would not find > out," > > he said. > > > > Mukhtar said the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack are 'scared' of > > improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. > > > > "They are scared of these countries becoming trading partners and > gaining > > confidence of each other," he said. > > > > Mukhtar said the meeting of the Defence Committee of the Cabinet, chaired > > by > > Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, discussed the 'pros and cons' > of > > incidents 'happening around us' and ways to continue the war > against terror > > and to help Pakistan's neighbours fight the menace. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From vrjogi at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 15:56:38 2008 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:26:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] this is pakistan In-Reply-To: <438256.27746.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <438256.27746.qm@web94714.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Friday, December 12, 2008 Tit for tat? Pakistan may seek Purohit's custody Islamabad: Sources in the Pakistan Government have said that Islamabad might formally ask India hand to over army offcier Lt. Col. Shrikant Prasad Purohit, for undergoing a trial in a court in Pakistan for his alleged role in perpetrating the bomb blasts on the Samjhauta Express that runs between both countries.The train blast took place about 100 kilometers from New Delhi in Deewana near Panipat on February 19, 2007. In the attack, 64 people, including some Pakistani nationals, were killed in explosions believed to have been set off by IEDs in two of the train’s coaches as it was heading towards the Attari Railway station near Lahore.Lt. Col. Purohit is the first serving army officer arrested for his alleged involvement in terrorist activities and for links with Hindu extremist organizations, reports the Daily Times.Lt. Col. Purohit is currently in police custody in Maharashtra after he was arrested by the Mumbai-based Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) in connection with the September 28, 2007 Malegaon bomb blast case.The Pune branch of the ATS obtained Lt. Col. Purohit''s custody. Lt. Col. Purohit has already charged the ATS with acting in a high-handed manner. Source: ANIMSN SpecialTerror as it unveiled in Mumbai Rate this article: Poor Thank you for rating. Excellent Your rating helps other users gauge the value of an article Thank you for rating.Average rating: from 46 users Print it Email it Blog it IM it Top Rated Most Emailed Most Blogged Thank you for rating. S African commandos saved many lives at Taj Pall of gloom at dead NSG commando's home Mumbaikars tell Govt: Enough is enough, act now NSG commandos receive a rousing welcome Ultras facing powerful enemies: Tharoor Serial blasts rock Bangalore BPO, offshoring may go obsolete by 2015 10 things you can do to curb terror Vatican for sari-clad Virgin Mary on ‘Indian’ Bible I am always ready sweetie, General Manekshaw told Indira Stock tips: Stocks to pick up in market mayhem Get your own website and domain for just Rs.1,999/year.* Click here! MSN Tech and Gadgets: You are just one click away from a total update on the latest gadgets and games Try it! _________________________________________________________________ Searching for the best deals on travel? Visit MSN Travel. http://in.msn.com/coxandkings From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 19:58:16 2008 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:58:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 12 things about strikes in Bombay Message-ID: <564b2fca0812120628o2870cc53wa18f8209c27d8002@mail.gmail.com> Piece by Vrijendra, activist and teacher in Mumbai. Naga *Twelve things I learnt from terror strikes in Mumbai:* 1. The first thing I learnt: the number of editors and columnists for whom Taj and Oberoi are second homes. Wow! I had no idea journalists had so much money. Of course, for all these journalists, English has to be their first language. * * 2. It is then no surprise that on English TV Channels and media reporting and coverage about Taj/ Oberoi and their victims are so extensive. These journalists were reporting as if they had been orphaned! As if it was the truly first time that the terrorists struck in India. So, that is the second thing I learned. That there are different Indias, even among victims of terror: some deserve non-stop reporting on the front page, others deserve the inside third page. 3. Many members of the staff died at Taj/ Oberoi in their attempts to save the guests at the hotels. I have yet to hear about any guest who offered to save the life of the staff along with his/ her own, any guest who tried to calm the staff by suggesting that, in the midst of terror, we are all the same. That you should not die to save our lives; that together, we are all victims of terror. (On the other hand, more than 100 policemen posted at the CST with lathis and paid to protect the citizens out of taxes, clearly knew that, in the face of terror, their own lives were more important than that of the public they harass all the time. As soon as these policemen saw the two terrorists shooting at people, they ran for their lives, most of them, anyway. As a result, a few who did their duty are now being rewarded handsomely by the state agencies, again out of public money!) 4. We all know that our politicians are corrupt, vain, vile and self-seeking. Even in such tragic moments, many of them could not resist scoring brownie points, for example, Narendra Modi. But what I learnt in the last week was something else. I learnt was that our chattering classes, and the swish set hate politicians, are patriotic to the core, are not corrupt and vile and are angry that politicians do not listen to them. Till now, my own complain has been the opposite: that our politicians listen too much to the chattering classes, are too sensitive to their needs and are more than willing to squander public money to help their friends among the chattering classes. So, it was refreshing to know that the (non-voting) chattering classes hate the politicians even more than the voting public does. 5. The fifth thing I learned? That between the chattering classes and the politicians, I like our politicians, despicable as they are. At least, they know when to shut up and disappear from the scene. Our chattering classes, on the other hand, do not know what to say and how to say it. Increasingly, almost every time, one of them opened their mouth, I was struck by their pomposity, frightening ignorance, a clear disregard for the facts such as they are and their sheer contempt for the 'largest democracy' in the world! 7. For the elite, for whom Taj is their second home, India stops at Churchgate, may be, Bombay Central. Beyond that, the nation does not exist and they do not care. Instead, they want to fortify their enclaves with full-proof security and commandos, if necessary, so that their parties do not get disturbed and they can dine in peace at the Taj. Their real anger is that the rest of India does not let them party the way they want without drawing them into the politics of terror. It was as if they were saying: Why should any one of us die? And if we have to die, why pay taxes? 8. I learnt that cab drivers have enormous wisdom. So many columnists have talked about how wisely skeptical and informed cab drivers were that I was left wondering why nobody was asking these drivers to their shows. Then, it struck me. Cab drivers, in India, do not know good English. * * 9. Anybody from the swish set is welcome to comment on terror issues and suggest solutions. It is preferable if you are a model, a TV actor and a socialite. Any one from the show business is more than welcome. But clearly, writers, historians, social activists and academicians are out of favour. In Bombay, they do not exist, they do not matter. Between intelligence, scholarship and designer clothes, designer clothes look much better on TV. * * 10. Our chatterati watch too many war movies and they have too much awe for George Bush. I think they clearly remember George Bush in a fake army dress on a naval ship soon after the USA attacked Iraq (they are still struggling to get out of it) and are inspired by his slogans. I have lost count of number of times, they mentioned 9/11 and America's military response to it and how they would love similar 'muscular response' from the Indian government. None of them seemed to remember at all that this response finally made George Bush the most hated President in the USA and the world. 11. The elite hate the Indian public: the vote banks. They are clearly unhappy that at the first sign of trouble the PM did not invite them to Delhi to ask them what he should do. If he had done it this time, like he does so often during economic crises, it would be democracy, when he does not it is because of the vote banks. For the elite, vote banks are not people and citizens, they are a herd driven to the ballot box to vote for cash and other things. (It reminds me of the RSS theory of conversion. The poor people who convert out of Hinduism never do on their own and cannot decide for themselves. They are almost always 'induced' or 'coerced' to convert to Christianity.) 12. Finally, I learnt the biggest lesson of all. We do not learn from crisis, any crisis. We love to rave and rant and then go back to our own silly devices. We love cowboys. We love toughness. We love to beat the hell out of the bad guys. We all know who they are. We love the pleasure of street violence. We need no intelligence, no courts and no justice. All we need is to hand over the messy business of politics to the army, who know how to 'order'. Order, shouted by a young, handsome man in army uniform, would redeem the nation and make these Pakis run away from our beloved nation India. (That such an order can also kill an innocent citizen and protestor as in Kashmir or the North East is something that the elite do not wish to know about.) I learnt that more than anything else, we believe in Superman comics, even in real life! Vrijendra 07.12.2008 From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 20:57:42 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:57:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing but of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our internal problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing about Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things in the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot just rubbish it without an argument. Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin of Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, not alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well physical exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. Pakistan cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House Arresting' few master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state guests. Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody tirade. It is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do this as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this crazy blind Jihad. Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist threat. Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always correct your mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, we need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean we yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some crackpots. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: > Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha > My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to > ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned > (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" > debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will > go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first > stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the > trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy > place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be > used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. > > So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves, > and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group > that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I > am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be > honest and just in this case. > > Javed > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Srirang, > > > > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' > which > > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation in > > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally > extremist. > > > > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in > > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. > > > > Thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha > wrote: > > > >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries to > >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because action > is > >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish > Javed > >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist > organizations > >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. > >> > >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is befitting. > >> > >> Srirang Jha > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > >>> > >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference > >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > >>> 6) CPI > >>> ..................there are many more. > >>> > >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant > >>> provocation. > >>> > >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? > >>> > >>> I'm all ears.. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Aditya Raj Kaul > >>> > >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: > >>> > > >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and > >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I > >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror > >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement > >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani > >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > >>> > > >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security > >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > >>> > charity > >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government > >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > >>> > > >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN > >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the > >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as > >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. > >>> > > >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has > >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by > >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would > >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 22:33:42 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:33:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Panun Kashmir demands action against terrorists' local links Message-ID: <6353c690812120903l42d505d5x78def5844345716b@mail.gmail.com> Panun Kashmir demands action against terrorists' local links Agencies December 12, 2008 at 1650 Panun Kashmir, an organisation of Kashmiri Hindus, demanded stern action against those providing logistical support to foreign terrorists. *Jammu *Demanding firm action against terror emanating from Pakistan especially in the wake of Mumbai attacks, Panun Kashmir, an organisation of Kashmiri Hindus, on Friday demanded stern action against those providing logistical support to foreign terrorists. "Local links providing logistical and other support to foreign terrorists carrying out strikes in the country should be brought to book," chairman of the organisation Ajay Chrungoo told reporters in Jammu. Chrungoo said that the crackdown against local links was crucial in the fight against terrorism. "Recent Mumbai attacks are a grim reminder of what terrorism is," he said. The organisation appreciated the Centre's move to set up a federal investigating agency to deal with terror. "It is not merely a law and order problem which should be left to the responsibility of the states," he said. Link - http://www.kashmirlive.com/story/Panun-Kashmir-demands-action-against-terrorists-local-links/397700.html From swadhin_sen at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 23:49:46 2008 From: swadhin_sen at yahoo.com (Swadhin Sen) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:19:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Veena Das, Arjun Appadurai, Faisal Devji and others on Mumbai attack Message-ID: <646234.91494.qm@web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Please, follow the link below to know the voices of Veena Das, Arjun Appadurai, Dipesh Chakrabarty, Faisal Devji, Vijay Prasad and Sumit Ganguli on the attack on Mumbai. http://www.ssrc.org/blogs/immanent_frame/category/mumbai-1126/ Hope u would all find the pieces, which r worked on different registers, interesting. Swadhin Sen Archaeologist & Assistant Professor Department of Archaeology Jahangirnagar University Savar, Dhaka Bangladesh Ph. 88 01720196176 (mobile) From virtuallyme at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 10:34:00 2008 From: virtuallyme at gmail.com (Rohan DSouza) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:34:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Arundhati Roy: Mumbai was not our 9/11 Message-ID: <79e82f610812122104v2291d938x6c0b87dd0d7bb194@mail.gmail.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy Arundhati Roy: Mumbai was not our 9/11 The author on the Mumbai terror attacks and India's response - Arundhati Roy - guardian.co.uk , Friday 12 December 2008 20.21 GMT - Article history [image: Azam Amir Kasab filmed on CCTV inside the Chhatrapati Shivaji train station in Mumbai] Azam Amir Kasab, the face of the Mumbai attacks. Photograph: Reuters We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching "India's 9/11". Like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, even though we know it's all been said and done before. As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned Pakistan that if it didn't act fast to arrest the "Bad Guys" he had personal information that India would launch air strikes on "terrorist camps" in Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's 9/11. But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that we can arrive at our own conclusions. It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn Kupwara – one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong in this country. If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre. We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said "Hungry, *kya*?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't *that* war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities. That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal with the one that is. There is a fierce, unforgiving fault-line that runs through the contemporary discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who see terrorism, especially "Islamist" terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with the world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or even try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself. Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, it exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, certainly bolsters the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy and believes that jihad should be waged until Islam, *his* Islam, rules the world. Among the things he said are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." And: "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the Hindus, just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire … we hacked, burned, set on fire … we believe in setting them on fire because these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it … I have just one last wish … let me be sentenced to death … I don't care if I'm hanged ... just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs [seven or eight hundred thousand] of these people stay ... I will finish them off … let a few more of them die ... at least 25,000 to 50,000 should die." And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or, Our Nationhood Defined by MS Golwalkar, who became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening." Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races – the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here ... a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by." (Of course Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in Orissa, Christians were the target of two and a half months of violence which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from their homes, half of who now live in refugee camps.) All these years Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud Daawa, which many believe is a front organization for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. He continues to recruit young boys for his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11 the UN imposed sanctions on the Jammat-ud-Daawa. The Pakistani government succumbed to international pressure and put Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and lives the life of a respectable man in Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide he left the VHP to join the Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate houses, Reliance and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said: "Modi is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. The RSS has 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and 7 million volunteers preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, but also former prime minister AB Vajpayee, current leader of the opposition LK Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and intelligence officers. If that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations within India preaching their own narrow bigotry. So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick Side B. We need context. Always. In this nuclear subcontinent that context is partition. The Radcliffe Line, which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was drawn virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million people, Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new *kind* of India left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, hate, horror but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of the Pure, became an Islamic Republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, violent military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea of India even before it was born. By 1990 they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992 Hindu mobs exhorted by LK Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998 the BJP was in power at the centre. The US war on terror put the wind in their sails. It allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and then present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international finance and it was in the interests of international corporations and the media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. That gave Hindu nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the subcontinent and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Taiba is from Shimla (India) and LK Advani of the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). In much the same way as it did after the 2001 parliament attack, the 2002 burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta Express, the government of India announced that it has "incontrovertible" evidence that the Lashkar-e-Taiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies the Lashkar operates in India through an organisation called the Indian Mujahideen. Two Indian nationals, Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working for the Jammu and Kashmir police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata in West Bengal, have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy. Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated global network of foot soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives working not just on both sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries simultaneously. In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike and isolate it within the borders of a single nation state is very much like trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost impossible. In circumstances like these, air strikes to "take out" terrorist camps may take out the camps, but certainly will not "take out" the terrorists. Neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try not to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, were trained by the Indian army.) Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally first in its war in *support * of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war *against*them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these contradictions, is careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jihad against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI to nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organizations. Having wired up these Frankensteins and released them into the world, the US expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in heart of the Homeland on September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently remade. Now the debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training camps, the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their ire rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if not more than it does on India. If at this point India decides to go to war perhaps the descent of the whole region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. If Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of "non-state actors" with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as neighbours. It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country by * inviting* the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has agents. On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at "ground zero" kept up an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights we watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns and gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National Security Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered nation. While they did this they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, caste, religion or nationality. (Part of the helplessness of the security forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole buildings are blown up. Human shields are used. The U.S and Israeli armies don't hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was different. And it was on TV. The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill – and be killed – mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something different from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people have grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, not minutes, what that's worth. Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the standoff the terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we say "nothing can justify terrorism", what most of us mean is that nothing can justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea what to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, they've journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the attackers, who called himself Imran Babar. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things contained in the "terror emails" that were sent out before several other bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you surrender?" "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better to live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn't it matter to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism is a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the Big Picture, individuals don't figure in their calculations except as collateral damage. It has always been a part of and often even the *aim* of terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden faultlines. The blood of "martyrs" irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism is not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be a catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, a tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its acts of bestiality is Live TV. Even as the attack was being condemned by TV anchors, the effectiveness of the terror strikes were being magnified a thousandfold by TV broadcasts. Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in India at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead we had retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes unless their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and each state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death of former prime minster VP Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and villain of Upper caste Hindus pass without a mention. We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous "Why they hate us" speech. His analysis of why religious bigots, both Hindu and Muslim hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and an indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after 9/11? Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and leftwing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians, *all* politicians, glorifying the police and the army and virtually asking for a police state. It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The era of "pickings" is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. Dangerous, stupid television flashcards like the Police are Good Politicians are Bad/Chief Executives are Good Chief Ministers are Bad/Army is Good Government is Bad/ India is Good Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about by TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost uncontrollable hysteria. Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when people in India were beginning to see that in the business of terrorism, victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last 20 years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still learning. (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look as though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) It was after the 2001 parliament attack that the first serious questions began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including SAR Geelani, the man whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, Showkat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence. The supreme court upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In its judgment the court acknowledged there was no proof that Mohammed Afzal belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, "The collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender." Even today we don't really know who the terrorists that attacked the Indian parliament were and who they worked for. More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial "encounter" at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell of the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat under seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An assistant commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of India's many "encounter specialists" known and rewarded for having summarily executed several "terrorists". There was an outcry against the Special Cell from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local community to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, academics and activists all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. In response, the BJP and LK Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a "Braveheart" and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had dared to question the integrity of the police, saying it was "suicidal" and calling them "anti-national". Of course there has been no inquiry. Only days after the Batla House event, another story about "terrorists" surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to a sessions court, the CBI said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the Batla House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2kg of RDX and two pistols on them and then arrested them as "terrorists" who belonged to Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar who have spent years in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) that was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts arrested a Hindu preacher Sadhvi Pragya, a self-styled God man Swami Dayanand Pande and Lt Col Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian Army. All the arrested belong to Hindu Nationalist organizations including a Hindu Supremacist group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he was part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be terrorists". LK Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and made rabble rousing speeches to huge gatherings in which he denounced the ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. On the November 25 newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the high profile VHP Chief Pravin Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare was killed in the Mumbai Attacks. The chances are that the new chief whoever he is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the plate. He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My name and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab Goswami turned to camera: "Arundhati Royand Prashant Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as frenzied as the one that prevails today, amounts to incitement as well as threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her job. So according to a man aspiring to be the next prime minister of India, and another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have no right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a shadowy history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake "encounters". This in a country that boasts of the highest number of custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being "encountered" by our Encounter Specialists. A country where the line between the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? There are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as the United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since 9/11. However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. If the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing its true colors, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed greatly to the unraveling of the American economy and who knows, perhaps eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of this one too?) Hundreds of thousands people including thousands of American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of terrorist strikes on U.S allies/agents (including India) and U.S interests in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George Bush, the man who led the US response to 9/11 is a despised figure not just internationally, but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that the United States is winning the war on terror? Homeland Security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But even if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours *cannot* be secured or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir and a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than 150 million Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, whose young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose hope and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole world. If ten men can hold off the NSG commandos, and the police for three days, and if it takes half a million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? Nor for that matter will any other quick fix. Anti-terrorism laws are not meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. That's why they have a conviction rate of less than 2%. They're just a means of putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and eventually letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly likely to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to death. It's what they *want*. What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades of quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. The only way to contain (it would be naïve to say end) terrorism is to look at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One sign says Justice, the other Civil War. There's no third sign and there's no going back. Choose. From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 13:42:02 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:12:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] a special treat for those who understand Kashmiri... In-Reply-To: <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <703551.51524.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvb3EVxBuQ Nazir Josh performance in Delhi on Youtube... --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits > To: "sarai list" > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 8:57 PM > Dear Javed, > > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item > was nothing but > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you > bring in our internal > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are > discussing about > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both > these things in > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on > same page. > > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' > is. But, you cannot just > rubbish it without an argument. > > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely > the modern origin of > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully > eliminated, not > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but > as well physical > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered > enough from them. Pakistan > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of > 'House Arresting' few > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as > state guests. > > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for > this bloody tirade. It > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups > which claim to do this > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a > victim of this crazy > blind Jihad. > > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious > terrorist threat. > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. > > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely > would always correct your > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I > know. Yes, we > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this > doesn't mean we > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business > launched by some > crackpots. > > Thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed > wrote: > > > Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha > > My original message was not in reaction to the > Pakistanis efforts to > > ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be > banned > > (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't > start the "initiators" > > debate. It is futile discussing who is the > "first" initiator. You will > > go on and on and will never be able to decide who > threw the first > > stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which > created all the > > trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, > peaceful and rosy > > place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any > religion should be > > used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. > > > > So, let us try to stop this "befitting > reply" culture among ourselves, > > and try to be very practical. Let us look at the > history of each group > > that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for > banning them. I > > am not trying to defend any group or individual - but > we have to be > > honest and just in this case. > > > > Javed > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > > Dear Srirang, > > > > > > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is > Íslamic Terrorism' > > which > > > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction > to this provocation in > > > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though > they are marginally > > extremist. > > > > > > Its important to eliminate the origin of global > Islamic Terrorism in > > > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his > reactionary mindset that tries to > > >> justify action against Hindu extremist > organizations only because action > > is > > >> being taken against the Muslim extremist > outfit in Pakistan. I wish > > Javed > > >> could think a little more objective. Ban on > all the extremist > > organizations > > >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent > or any precondition. > > >> > > >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to > Javed's 'reaction' is befitting. > > >> > > >> Srirang Jha > > >> > > >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya > Raj Kaul < > > >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > > >>> > > >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > > >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference > > >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > > >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > > >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > > >>> 6) CPI > > >>> ..................there are many > more. > > >>> > > >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those > who react to constant > > >>> provocation. > > >>> > > >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? > > >>> > > >>> I'm all ears.. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks > > >>> Aditya Raj Kaul > > >>> > > >>> On 12/11/08, Javed > wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > There are reports that Pakistan > govt. is arresting many clerics and > > >>> > banning extremist organizations > (responsible for Mumbai terror). I > > >>> > think it is high time we demand a > ban on our own home-grown terror > > >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, > MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement > > >>> > should start for this from this very > platform. What do you say? > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: > Gilani > > >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > > >>> > > > >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its > obligations under a UN Security > > >>> > Council statement targeting four > members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > > >>> > charity > > >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned > Islamist group, the government > > >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > > >>> > > > >>> > The statement, which gave no further > details, came after the UN > > >>> > Security Council sanctions committee > targeted four members of the > > >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, > and a charity widely viewed as > > >>> > its political arm, for an assets > freeze and other sanctions. > > >>> > > > >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf > Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has > > >>> > taken note of the designation of > certain individuals and entities by > > >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the > UN Security Council and would > > >>> > fulfil its international > obligations," a government statement said. > > >>> > > _________________________________________ > > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list > on media and the city. > > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > > >>> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> _________________________________________ > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the city. > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 13:44:31 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:44:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kesavan in the Telegraph Message-ID: WE, THE PEOPLE - The Mumbai tragedy and the English language news media Mukul Kesavan ³Go to the Four Seasons and look down from the top floor at the slums around you. Do you know what flags you will see? Not the Congress¹s, not the BJP¹s, not the Shiv Sena¹s. Pakistan! Pakistani flags fly high!... You know what I think? We should carpet-bomb Pakistan. That¹s the only way we can give a clear message.² Simi Garewal later apologized for this little outburst on the television show, We, the People. She said she had mistaken Muslim flags for Pakistani ones. She had a harder time explaining away her Œcarpet bombing¹ prescription. She claimed that she had meant to suggest a covert attack like the below-the-radar missions Americans so often undertake in Pakistan¹s borderlands. Carpet-bombing is hard to do discreetly, but we shouldn¹t make too much of this because the point isn¹t Simi Garewal and her gaffe: it¹s the way the English language news media covered the Mumbai tragedy. The idiom of the coverage of the terror attack on Mumbai was in part shaped by the need to say something, anything, in the face of horror and evil. The need to voice not just their own feelings but the need to be a proxy for the People, to anticipate and echo a public revulsion, seemed to overwhelm reporters and studio anchors. The wild-eyed animation with which they spoke seemed prompted by the belief that calm, even lucidity, was an inappropriate response to tragedy. Barkha Dutt¹s agitation as she reported from sites attacked by the terrorists was so extreme that on occasion she seemed to hyper-ventilate on camera. Further away from the tragedy, in a studio, Arnab Goswami ratcheted up the hectoring self-righteousness that has come to define his manner, as he and Times TV seek to position the channel as India¹s answer to Fox News. Rajdeep Sardesai managed to be composed, compassionate and knowledgeable at Hemant Karkare¹s funeral, but CNN IBN made up for that later by framing their reports on the terror strikes in gory graphics that could have been borrowed from the credits of a Ramsay Brothers horror movie. With the reporters, the excitement was understandable: it¹s hard to be calm with bombs going off, bullets flying about and a landmark building burning in front of you. But there were aspects of the coverage that didn¹t deserve the benefit of the doubt. During the crisis, the foregrounding of the Taj was inevitable. It was the site of the longest battle and the hideous drama of its near-destruction was bound to be framed by any sensible cameraman. But it¹s still worth making the point Shyam Benegal made, that the dozens of people killed in VT (or CST) station and their grieving relatives and friends got very little screen time. When VT figured in the coverage, it was there for CCTV grabs of the T-shirted terrorist. The Taj, we were told over and over again, is an Œiconic¹ building. I think we can say without controversy that Victoria Terminus is much the greater landmark both architecturally and in terms of the number of people who pass through it. It may not be Œhome¹ to them, in the way that the Taj clearly was for the many fluent habitués of South Mumbai who filed past the cameras of the English news channels, but more Mumbaikars have taken trains to and from VT than have sampled the hospitality of the Taj. And yet we didn¹t have people on television reminiscing about the station and what it meant to them, that storied building that has been the beginning and the end of a billion journeys. Even the details of the killing, the alertness of the public address system operator who had platforms cleared and thus minimized the carnage, trickled out later, as the platform tragedy that had happened was eclipsed by the hotel tragedy that was still Œbreaking news¹. I can¹t remember the last time that social class so clearly defined the coverage of a public event, or one in which people spoke so unselfconsciously from their class positions. The English news channels became mega-churches in which hotel-going Indians found catharsis and communion. Person after person claimed the Taj as home. Memories of courtship, marriage, celebration, friendship, the quick coffee, the saved-up-for snack, the sneaked lavatory visit, came together to frame the burning Taj in a halo of affection. The novelist, Aravind Adiga, said in an interview with the BBC: ³One of the differences between India and other countries is that a lot of our civic space is contained within the five-star hotels. They have a different function here for us, they are places where marriages happen, where people of all economic backgrounds go for a coffee. For the Taj Mahal to be attacked is somewhat like the town hall being attacked in some other place... .² I¹d wager that 99 per cent of VT¹s commuters haven¹t seen the inside of the Sea Lounge. Whatever else they are, five-star establishments in India are not democratic civic spaces. Few Mumbaikars think the Taj Mahal Hotel is their city¹s hôtel de ville. The Trident, being less Œiconic¹, didn¹t get quite the same attention as the Taj, but it wasn¹t left out. Shekhar Gupta used his column on the edit-page of the Indian Express to write a thousand-word homage to the Trident. This included descriptions of his sleeping preferences, the number of nights he had logged at the Trident and the considerateness of the hotel staff. This takes us back to that third hotel, the one we began with, back to Simi Garewal on the top floor of the Four Seasons, looking down at the slums below her, aflutter with sinister flags. Forget the fact that she mistook Islamic flags for Pakistani ones; anyone can make a mistake, and she¹s apologized for hers. What¹s interesting here is the lack of embarrassment with which she pictures herself and people-like-her staring down disapprovingly from a great, air-conditioned height at hovels and squalor. Usually, privileged English-speaking Indians have the tact to be politically correct in their public statements; but in the middle of terror and tragedy, the sense of social self-preservation that keeps them from crassness, disappears. ³Go to the Four Seasons and look down from the top floor at the slums around you.² That Œyou¹ is us: Telegraph-reading, hotel-going people, who, in the heat of the moment and because of the death of people we know (or know of), become the world. English and American papers treated the terror attack as an assault on the West. The terrorists had, after all, specifically looked for American and British citizens to murder. Ironically, even as NDTV, CNN-IBN and Times Now put hotel guests at the heart of the horror and bumped train commuters to its periphery, older English-speaking peoples counted their dead and dimly regretted all Indian casualties as collateral damage. In that residual category, if nowhere else, the Indian dead remained one People. From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 14:19:39 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:49:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Additional aids for Kashmiris/non kashmiris who do not understand the song Message-ID: <835706.2435.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvb3EVxBuQ Nazir Josh performance in Delhi on Youtube... for those who face language disability ...the song goes: Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... praris osukh zan khari farman sahbo.. Zan osuk tchapyaw khyomut trambaan sahbo... Az kal chuk sone sike zan chakraan sahbo Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo selli manz yeli osukh teli zan osukh moomut Tankha ponsan peth osukh machran khyomut Az chukh sarkary khazanay paan sahbo Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo Bab osuy dul hyeth neraan bate sombrawaan Menz menz os dargah wati peth tremi thawaan Az chukh yemi shahruk bod insaan sahbo Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... Translated in English: I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! The other day you were a 'khari farmaan' (untranslatable Kashmiri slang) sahib You then resembled a badly bitten copper vessel sahib Now you fling gold coins in the air sahib I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! While you were in the cell you were as good as dead You had to live off your meagre salary and were smitten by flies Now you are the the sarkari treasury in person sahib I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! You father used to collect rice door-to-door in a begging bowl At times he even used spread out a huge plate in Hazratbal soliciting alms Now you are a respectible citizen of this town sahib I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 15:01:26 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:01:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri separatist group 'disappears' post crackdown Message-ID: <6353c690812130131u2594e301re400c3588b6b51fd@mail.gmail.com> *Kashmiri separatist group 'disappears' post crackdown* Islamabad (IANS): A coalition of Kashmiri jehadi groups led by Syed Salahuddin "has simply disappeared" in Pakistan following the crackdown on the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which the UN has declared a terrorist group, a media report said on Saturday. The United Jihad Council (UJC), comprising among others the Hizbul Mujahideen, Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen, Al-Barq, Ikhwan-ul-Mussalmin and Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen, "has temporarily dissolved itself, closed its offices, removed all signs and asked its leaders to stay quiet", *The News* said. "The strategy follows the current Pakistan-India tension following the Mumbai (terrorist strike) and the ban imposed by the UN on several such organisations in Pakistan," it added. The UN moved Wednesday against the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) group that New Delhi has blamed for the Nov 26 Mumbai carnage and the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament. "Following the Mumbai attacks and the subsequent tension between Pakistan and India, the United Jihad Council has decided to remain silent," The News quoted a commander of one UJC affiliate as saying. "In the current situation, the UJC is maintaining complete silence and has no contact with any Pakistani organisation or institution," he said. "The outfits banned in Pakistan, including the Lashkar-e-Taiba, have never worked with the UJC nor maintained with it any direct or indirect contact," he added. The UJC came into existence in 1994 with the amalgamation of several armed organisations. It is headed by Salahuddin of the Hizbul Mujahideen, the largest group operating in Jammu and Kashmir. The organisation was created "to unify and focus efforts of various armed resistance groups fighting the Indian rule in Kashmir. This made distribution of resources like arms, ammunition, propaganda materials and communication more streamlined", *The News* said. "It also made it easier to coordinate and pool resources of various jehadi groups to collect information, plan operations and strike at targets of military importance in the [Indian] Kashmir," it added. ------------------------------ -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 16:30:55 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:30:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to know. By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your mail about "initators". J On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed, > > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing but > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our internal > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing about > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things in > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. > > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot just > rubbish it without an argument. > > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin of > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, not > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well physical > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. Pakistan > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House Arresting' few > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state guests. > > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody tirade. It > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do this > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this crazy > blind Jihad. > > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist threat. > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. > > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always correct your > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, we > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean we > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some > crackpots. > > Thanks > Aditya Raj Kaul > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: > >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. >> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves, >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be >> honest and just in this case. >> >> Javed >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> wrote: >> > Dear Srirang, >> > >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' >> which >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation in >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally >> extremist. >> > >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha >> wrote: >> > >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries to >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because action >> is >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish >> Javed >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist >> organizations >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >> >> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is befitting. >> >> >> >> Srirang Jha >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >> >>> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >> >>> 6) CPI >> >>> ..................there are many more. >> >>> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >> >>> provocation. >> >>> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >> >>> >> >>> I'm all ears.. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >>> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics and >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A movement >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >> >>> > >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN Security >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >> >>> > charity >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >> >>> > >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed as >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >> >>> > >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities by >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement said. >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 19:44:06 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:44:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only to tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at such an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I never said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. Isn't that logic ? In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no doubt in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very obvious reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of nowhere? And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which have been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and understand. Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you to the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with cross border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state guests. Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong action or maybe tough laws. I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old lines again and again. Thanks . On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: > > Dear Aditya > So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at > mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to > know. > By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same > page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see > that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to > the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in > UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of > KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why > is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring > unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned > banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I > haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of > dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your > mail about "initators". > > J > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > Dear Javed, > > > > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing > but > > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our > internal > > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing about > > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things in > > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. > > > > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot > just > > rubbish it without an argument. > > > > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin of > > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, > not > > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well > physical > > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. > Pakistan > > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House Arresting' > few > > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state guests. > > > > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody tirade. > It > > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do > this > > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this crazy > > blind Jihad. > > > > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist > threat. > > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. > > > > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always correct > your > > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, we > > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean we > > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some > > crackpots. > > > > Thanks > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: > > > >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha > >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to > >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned > >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" > >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will > >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first > >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the > >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy > >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be > >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. > >> > >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves, > >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group > >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I > >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be > >> honest and just in this case. > >> > >> Javed > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> wrote: > >> > Dear Srirang, > >> > > >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' > >> which > >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation > in > >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally > >> extremist. > >> > > >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in > >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries > to > >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because > action > >> is > >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish > >> Javed > >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist > >> organizations > >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. > >> >> > >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is > befitting. > >> >> > >> >> Srirang Jha > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > >> >>> > >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference > >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > >> >>> 6) CPI > >> >>> ..................there are many more. > >> >>> > >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant > >> >>> provocation. > >> >>> > >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm all ears.. > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks > >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >>> > >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics > and > >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I > >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror > >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A > movement > >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani > >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > >> >>> > > >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN > Security > >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > >> >>> > charity > >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government > >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > >> >>> > > >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN > >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the > >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed > as > >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has > >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities > by > >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would > >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement > said. > >> >>> > _________________________________________ > >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 20:16:09 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:16:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya I never claimed I am on the right path (whatever that is), but you did. So that's fine. I have no intention of reforming you either. Let me clarify that I am in no way trying to defend what you call the "Islamic terrorism", and I am as much pained by the death of innocent people in Mumbai as you are. As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in this country - we don't want Pak sympathy). But why I brought the subject of banning the saffron outfits (in response to the JuD news) because I think it is connected with the larger "war on terror". Once again, I don't want to start the debate of "who began it all" but the point is that the terrorist supposedly trained in Pakistan says they were shown videos of Muslim massacre in Gujarat and hate-speeches of Modi to incite the hatred against India and Hindus. I know that this is a standard practice on both sides of the border. RSS shakhas and Bajrang Dal camps also show disturbing images of the "deeds done by Muslims" to sow the hatred in their cadre. It is a reciprocal game, a vicious circle that is going on in South Asia for many decades, resulting in this terrible situation. If we want to keep it unchanged, then fine, we should expect more terror attacks (God forbid). But, if we are serious about eradicating terror in the region, tighter security and intelligence will certainly play a big role, but a bigger difference can be made if we reduce the reasons for hatred in every walk of life. That is why it is important to root out the different institutions of hatred on both sides of the border. That is the point I am trying to make. A mere jingoism and patriotism will not bring a long-term solution. I hope you understand. I am sure that the reduction of hate-propaganda between the 2 countries and 2 communities could probably even help the Kashmiri Pandits to rehabilitate (which I would very much like). Javed On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed, > > Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no > different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only to > tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at such > an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I never > said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't > reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only > place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. > > We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage > when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. > Isn't that logic ? > > In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, > which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been > feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no doubt > in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued > onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. > > Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very obvious > reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have > problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak > openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other > viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously > elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. > > You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you > which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why > bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of nowhere? > And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. > > Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and > the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those > ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, > even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which have > been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and > understand. > > Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you to > the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with cross > border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which > slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state guests. > Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and > everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong > action or maybe tough laws. > > I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to > debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old > lines again and again. > > Thanks > > . > > On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: >> >> Dear Aditya >> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at >> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to >> know. >> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same >> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see >> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to >> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in >> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of >> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why >> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring >> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned >> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I >> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of >> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your >> mail about "initators". >> >> J >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> wrote: >> > Dear Javed, >> > >> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing >> but >> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our >> internal >> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing about >> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things in >> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. >> > >> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot >> just >> > rubbish it without an argument. >> > >> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin of >> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, >> not >> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well >> physical >> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. >> Pakistan >> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House Arresting' >> few >> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state guests. >> > >> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody tirade. >> It >> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do >> this >> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this crazy >> > blind Jihad. >> > >> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist >> threat. >> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. >> > >> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always correct >> your >> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, we >> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean we >> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some >> > crackpots. >> > >> > Thanks >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha >> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to >> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned >> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" >> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You will >> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first >> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the >> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy >> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be >> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. >> >> >> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among ourselves, >> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each group >> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I >> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be >> >> honest and just in this case. >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Srirang, >> >> > >> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic Terrorism' >> >> which >> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this provocation >> in >> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally >> >> extremist. >> >> > >> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism in >> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that tries >> to >> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because >> action >> >> is >> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I wish >> >> Javed >> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist >> >> organizations >> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is >> befitting. >> >> >> >> >> >> Srirang Jha >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >> >> >>> 6) CPI >> >> >>> ..................there are many more. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >> >> >>> provocation. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I'm all ears.. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Thanks >> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics >> and >> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai terror). I >> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown terror >> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A >> movement >> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN >> Security >> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >> >> >>> > charity >> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the government >> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of the >> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely viewed >> as >> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan has >> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and entities >> by >> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and would >> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement >> said. >> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 20:59:32 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:59:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Additional aids for Kashmiris/non kashmiris who do not understand the song In-Reply-To: <835706.2435.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <835706.2435.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812130729l6345c94m3eafc36087400388@mail.gmail.com> thanks a ton Gowhar it is so good at the this low res. on you tube, one can imagine how good it must have been in the auditorium lot of love to Josh sahib is On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:19 PM, gowhar fazli wrote: > > > http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvb3EVxBuQ > Nazir Josh performance in Delhi on Youtube... > > > for those who face language disability ...the song goes: > > Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... > Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... > > praris osukh zan khari farman sahbo.. > Zan osuk tchapyaw khyomut trambaan sahbo... > Az kal chuk sone sike zan chakraan sahbo > Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo > > selli manz yeli osukh teli zan osukh moomut > Tankha ponsan peth osukh machran khyomut > Az chukh sarkary khazanay paan sahbo > Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo > > Bab osuy dul hyeth neraan bate sombrawaan > Menz menz os dargah wati peth tremi thawaan > Az chukh yemi shahruk bod insaan sahbo > Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... > > Translated in English: > > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! > > The other day you were a 'khari farmaan' (untranslatable Kashmiri slang) sahib > You then resembled a badly bitten copper vessel sahib > Now you fling gold coins in the air sahib > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! > > While you were in the cell you were as good as dead > You had to live off your meagre salary and were smitten by flies > Now you are the the sarkari treasury in person sahib > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! > > You father used to collect rice door-to-door in a begging bowl > At times he even used spread out a huge plate in Hazratbal soliciting alms > Now you are a respectible citizen of this town sahib > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib! > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 00:15:59 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:15:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: Mumbai was not India's 9/11- by Arundhati Roy Message-ID: <47e122a70812131045i23d1d63di31ab460a005b4262@mail.gmail.com> The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including an attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with justice, or face civil war http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy * Arundhati Roy * o Arundhati Roy o guardian.co.uk, Saturday 13 December 2008 00.01 GMT o Article history We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching "India's 9/11". Like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, even though we know it's all been said and done before. As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned Pakistan that if it didn't act fast to arrest the "Bad Guys" he had personal information that India would launch air strikes on "terrorist camps" in Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's 9/11. But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that we can arrive at our own conclusions. It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn Kupwara – one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong in this country. If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre. We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said "Hungry, kya?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't that war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities. That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal with the one that is. There is a fierce, unforgiving fault-line that runs through the contemporary discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who see terrorism, especially "Islamist" terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with the world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or even try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself. Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, it exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, certainly bolsters the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy and believes that jihad should be waged until Islam, his Islam, rules the world. Among the things he said are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." And: "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the Hindus, just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire … we hacked, burned, set on fire … we believe in setting them on fire because these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it … I have just one last wish … let me be sentenced to death … I don't care if I'm hanged ... just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs [seven or eight hundred thousand] of these people stay ... I will finish them off … let a few more of them die ... at least 25,000 to 50,000 should die." And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or, Our Nationhood Defined by MS Golwalkar, who became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening." Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races – the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here ... a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by." (Of course Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in Orissa, Christians were the target of two and a half months of violence which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from their homes, half of who now live in refugee camps.) All these years Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud Daawa, which many believe is a front organization for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. He continues to recruit young boys for his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11 the UN imposed sanctions on the Jammat-ud-Daawa. The Pakistani government succumbed to international pressure and put Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and lives the life of a respectable man in Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide he left the VHP to join the Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate houses, Reliance and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said: "Modi is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. The RSS has 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and 7 million volunteers preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, but also former prime minister AB Vajpayee, current leader of the opposition LK Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and intelligence officers. If that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations within India preaching their own narrow bigotry. So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick Side B. We need context. Always. In this nuclear subcontinent that context is partition. The Radcliffe Line, which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was drawn virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million people, Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new kind of India left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, hate, horror but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of the Pure, became an Islamic Republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, violent military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea of India even before it was born. By 1990 they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992 Hindu mobs exhorted by LK Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998 the BJP was in power at the centre. The US war on terror put the wind in their sails. It allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and then present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international finance and it was in the interests of international corporations and the media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. That gave Hindu nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the subcontinent and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Taiba is from Shimla (India) and LK Advani of the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). In much the same way as it did after the 2001 parliament attack, the 2002 burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta Express, the government of India announced that it has "incontrovertible" evidence that the Lashkar-e-Taiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies the Lashkar operates in India through an organisation called the Indian Mujahideen. Two Indian nationals, Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working for the Jammu and Kashmir police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata in West Bengal, have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy. Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated global network of foot soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives working not just on both sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries simultaneously. In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike and isolate it within the borders of a single nation state is very much like trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost impossible. In circumstances like these, air strikes to "take out" terrorist camps may take out the camps, but certainly will not "take out" the terrorists. Neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try not to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, were trained by the Indian army.) Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally first in its war in support of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war against them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these contradictions, is careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jihad against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI to nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organizations. Having wired up these Frankensteins and released them into the world, the US expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in heart of the Homeland on September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently remade. Now the debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training camps, the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their ire rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if not more than it does on India. If at this point India decides to go to war perhaps the descent of the whole region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. If Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of "non-state actors" with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as neighbours. It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country by inviting the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has agents. On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at "ground zero" kept up an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights we watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns and gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National Security Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered nation. While they did this they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, caste, religion or nationality. (Part of the helplessness of the security forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole buildings are blown up. Human shields are used. The U.S and Israeli armies don't hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was different. And it was on TV. The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill – and be killed – mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something different from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people have grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, not minutes, what that's worth. Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the standoff the terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we say "nothing can justify terrorism", what most of us mean is that nothing can justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea what to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, they've journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the attackers, who called himself Imran Babar. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things contained in the "terror emails" that were sent out before several other bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you surrender?" "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better to live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn't it matter to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism is a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the Big Picture, individuals don't figure in their calculations except as collateral damage. It has always been a part of and often even the aim of terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden faultlines. The blood of "martyrs" irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism is not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be a catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, a tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its acts of bestiality is Live TV. Even as the attack was being condemned by TV anchors, the effectiveness of the terror strikes were being magnified a thousandfold by TV broadcasts. Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in India at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead we had retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes unless their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and each state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death of former prime minster VP Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and villain of Upper caste Hindus pass without a mention. We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous "Why they hate us" speech. His analysis of why religious bigots, both Hindu and Muslim hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and an indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after 9/11? Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and leftwing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians, all politicians, glorifying the police and the army and virtually asking for a police state. It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The era of "pickings" is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. Dangerous, stupid television flashcards like the Police are Good Politicians are Bad/Chief Executives are Good Chief Ministers are Bad/Army is Good Government is Bad/ India is Good Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about by TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost uncontrollable hysteria. Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when people in India were beginning to see that in the business of terrorism, victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last 20 years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still learning. (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look as though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) It was after the 2001 parliament attack that the first serious questions began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including SAR Geelani, the man whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, Showkat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence. The supreme court upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In its judgment the court acknowledged there was no proof that Mohammed Afzal belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, "The collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender." Even today we don't really know who the terrorists that attacked the Indian parliament were and who they worked for. More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial "encounter" at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell of the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat under seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An assistant commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of India's many "encounter specialists" known and rewarded for having summarily executed several "terrorists". There was an outcry against the Special Cell from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local community to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, academics and activists all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. In response, the BJP and LK Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a "Braveheart" and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had dared to question the integrity of the police, saying it was "suicidal" and calling them "anti-national". Of course there has been no inquiry. Only days after the Batla House event, another story about "terrorists" surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to a sessions court, the CBI said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the Batla House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2kg of RDX and two pistols on them and then arrested them as "terrorists" who belonged to Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar who have spent years in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) that was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts arrested a Hindu preacher Sadhvi Pragya, a self-styled God man Swami Dayanand Pande and Lt Col Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian Army. All the arrested belong to Hindu Nationalist organizations including a Hindu Supremacist group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he was part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be terrorists". LK Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and made rabble rousing speeches to huge gatherings in which he denounced the ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. On the November 25 newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the high profile VHP Chief Pravin Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare was killed in the Mumbai Attacks. The chances are that the new chief whoever he is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the plate. He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My name and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab Goswami turned to camera: "Arundhati Roy and Prashant Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as frenzied as the one that prevails today, amounts to incitement as well as threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her job. So according to a man aspiring to be the next prime minister of India, and another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have no right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a shadowy history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake "encounters". This in a country that boasts of the highest number of custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being "encountered" by our Encounter Specialists. A country where the line between the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? There are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as the United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since 9/11. However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. If the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing its true colors, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed greatly to the unraveling of the American economy and who knows, perhaps eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of this one too?) Hundreds of thousands people including thousands of American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of terrorist strikes on U.S allies/agents (including India) and U.S interests in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George Bush, the man who led the US response to 9/11 is a despised figure not just internationally, but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that the United States is winning the war on terror? Homeland Security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But even if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours cannot be secured or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir and a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than 150 million Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, whose young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose hope and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole world. If ten men can hold off the NSG commandos, and the police for three days, and if it takes half a million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? Nor for that matter will any other quick fix. Anti-terrorism laws are not meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. That's why they have a conviction rate of less than 2%. They're just a means of putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and eventually letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly likely to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to death. It's what they want. What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades of quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. The only way to contain (it would be naïve to say end) terrorism is to look at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One sign says Justice, the other Civil War. There's no third sign and there's no going back. Choose. -- From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 10:49:51 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:19:51 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Election 2008, Human Rights Defenders Message-ID: Please distribute widely. http://tinyurl.com/electiondefenders Human Rights Situation Ahead, During and After the 2008 Parliamentary Election in Bangladesh The up-coming parliamentary election scheduled for December 29th, 2008 marks an important milestone for the consolidation of democracy in Bangladesh. Therefore a meaningful election, free of intimidation and violence, is of imminent importance. But as the experience of the 2001 election shows, a parliamentary election bears the potential of human rights violations, such as intimidation of and violence against voters, especially women and religious and ethnic minorities. We are a group of Bangladeshi and international human rights activists. Our objective is to protect and support potential victims of intimidation, harassment and violence. Therefore, we will collect as much information as possible of any kind of human rights violations ahead, during, and in the aftermath of the upcoming parliamentary election. For this purpose we established a network of national human rights defenders in several districts all over the country. After verifying and compiling these reports, we will share this information with national, regional and international institutions. We would like to encourage all of you, to support our initiative by collecting valid information on human rights violations ahead, during and after the parliamentary election on December 29th. Please consider that we only can include information that includes solid proofs of evidence on the reported incidents. Please include following information in an E-Mail and send it to: humanrights.election2008 at gmail.com 1. Date and time incident happened 2. Place of reported incident (District, Constituency, Upazila, Union, Village) 3. Source of information (e.g. witness/victim, media report, informant) 4. Details of incident (brief summary of all important facts, for example: What happened? How many people were intimidated? Who intimidated them? Could you verify the information independently?) Please DOWNLOAD BENGALI VERSION for your information collection. Thanks a lot for your support! From shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 14:34:48 2008 From: shambhu.rahmat at gmail.com (Shambhu Rahmat) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:04:48 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Phulbari Coal Project: critique of environment plans sets off alarms Message-ID: Phulbari Coal Project: critique of environment plans sets off alarms UK-based GCM Resources' ESIA of Bangladesh coal mine offers no comfort 11 December 2008 | Washington, DC http://www.bicusa.org/en/Article.10979.aspx The Phulbari Coal Project threatens numerous dangers and potential damages, ranging from the degradation of a major agricultural region in Bangladesh to pollution of the world's largest wetlands. The project's Summary Environmental Impact Assessment, and its full Environmental and Social Impact Assessment are replete with vague assurances, issuing many promises of future mitigation measures. A report commissioned by Bank Information Center titled "Phulbari Coal: A Parlous Project" written by Roger Moody of Nostromo Research, UK makes the case that the integrated Phulbari coal mine, coal rail-river transport and coastal coal offloading project in Bangladesh is of such dimensions that it would prove highly challenging to implement in any country. It poses not only numerous socio-environmental problems, but also demands a highly sophisticated degree of regulatory adhesion, long-term monitoring and component implementation. The Asian Development Bank, which was actively considering funding the project until civil society organizations drew attention to its ill-prepared environment and social plans, would do well to support the development of a less controversial energy alternative for the country. BIC's objective in commissioning this report was to provide Bangladeshi and international civil society organizations with user friendly expert critiques of the environmental and social assessments prepared by GCM/Asia Energy. A critique of GCM/Asia Energy's Involuntary Resettlement Plan for the Project was also commissioned by BIC and ispublicly available on its website. Summary of key points of Report: The Phulbari Coal Project threatens numerous dangers and potential damages. These include the degradation of a major agricultural region in Bangladesh at a time of soaring food prices; pollution of the world's largest wetlands; and a significant contribution to adverse global climate change. The project's Environmental and Social Impact Assessment is full of vague assurances. It makes many promises of future mitigation measures that are inadequately defined and will almost certainly not be thoroughly implemented. The managing company, GCM Resources plc (Asia Energy), clearly has insufficient practical experience of a project of this magnitude. Both the "Precautionary Principle" and that of "Inter-generational Equity" will be severely compromised if the mine proceeds according to its present design. The mine will profoundly affect both the quantity and quality of water available in the area of the mine footprint. The likelihood of uncontrolled acid rock drainage has - by the project proponents own admission - not been adequately assessed; nor has the risk of a serious seismic event in the mine area. The project will cause a significant increase in emissions of airborne particulate matter with a direct impact on peoples' health There is little evidence that project managers have the capacity to ensure that proposed rehabilitation measures will actually work READ THE FULL REPORT: Phulbari: A Parlous Project, prepared by Nostromo Research, November 12, 2008 (Acrobat pdf, 368 KB) http://www.bicusa.org/admin/Document.100695.aspx From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 15:08:57 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:38:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Cinema in the Age of Hypervisuality Message-ID: <500178.66576.qm@web51411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Cinema in the Age of Hypervisuality Sadanand Menon New Delhi December 12, 2008, 0:35 IST The TV grab of filmmaker Ram Gopal Varma trudging through the debris at Taj Hotel will remain one of the more grotesque images of the aftermath of the sixty hours of mayhem in Mumbai, last fortnight. I have been trying to figure out what was so disturbing about it and why so many people felt offended by it. It was promptly dubbed ‘terror tourism’ and soundly berated. In fact, it is interesting how so few of the Bollywood fraternity, who walk in and out of these 7-star hotels everyday, actually came there physically during or after the shootout. Even later, when an assorted bunch from Simi Garewal, Dia Mirza and Jaaved Jaffrey to Preity Zinta, Raveena Tandon and Sharmila Tagore did come on to the TV discussion panels, they sounded out of sync and had only banal or hawkish ideas to peddle. Despite the major glam star-cast, these TV shows were flops. Agents of the cinema seemed like sly interlopers here. Let me try and develop this into a theory. No one will disagree if one were to propose that the entire thing was primarily a television event. It was almost as if it were carefully choreographed for TV cameras which were allowed to go not only very near the action but, at times, even seemed to perform the role of command control headquarters. The RAF first and the NSG commandos later, seemed like they were being coordinated by the TV channels. TV spot anchors like Barkha Dutt and Rajdeep Sadesai and studio anchors like Arnab Goswami sounded like CEOs of India Inc and spoke with greater authority, impertinence and assurance than the Prime Minister or the Home Minister. Almost every politician who came to live by the camera, perished by the camera. Each one seemed to open his mouth only to change his foot. It was the TV anchors who ‘performed’. They talked twenty to the dozen, got emotional, gesticulated wildly, modulated their voices and brought up facial emotions that could put any koodiyattam actor to shame. India Television was the most amazing. This Hindi channel seemed convinced that the entire reason why the bunch of gunmen had (as it is being suggested now) got into boats and come floating down all the way from Karachi to Mumbai, was solely to get into the luxury hotels, switch on the TV and watch this particular channel. So they periodically addressed the gunmen directly. And I am translating from Hindi: “O you aatankvadis (terrorists) who are in Taj and Oberoi and are watching our channel now, let us warn you that do what you may, but you are not going to survive. You have been surrounded by our brave security forces and you don’t have a chance in hell to come out alive”. It was Indian TV’s hour of glory. Then the millions stuck to their screens were offered the excitement of ‘TV within TV’ — live grabs from the CCTV footage of two gunmen walking into the Chhatrapati Shivaji Railway Terminal spraying bullets, then walking down the road to the next building as if on an evening stroll and, soon enough, close ups of at least two of the gunmen. Now the drama came to boiling point. The repeat showing of these two young men, rather modishly cropped and dressed in aviator trousers and designer sneakers, with a blue ammunition sack casually flung over one shoulder and an AK-47 held at a stylish angle, brought in a touch of Hollywood and sent the TRPs zooming up. This was all TV. Its reality aspect invests it with an ‘affekt’ that cinema simply will not be able to match. As the illusory reality of cinema pales, they overcome it with rounds of fantasy. It is not for nothing that some of the biggest investments, the past decade, have been for animation or digitally doctored films. But TV need not have any such worries as it capitalises on being ‘embedded in reality’. The cascading effects of such image bombardment creates the state of hypervisuality as audiences get addicted to increasing levels of spectatorship, subtly transforming the relation between the visual and its consumption. This directly affects all aspects of viewership, as anything less dense and constitutive begins to look pale and jaded and irritatingly boring. The eye thirsts for that over-souped visual experience which has emerged as the new reality; an exultation of the optic sense, which translates as our contemporary ‘spectacle economy’. As ‘reality’ and its representation gets encroached, invaded and occupied by TV, cinema will have to find the ‘non-realistic’ route retain its impact. For all that Ram Gopal Varma might rummage in the misery of bombed-out ‘reality’, he will never be able to make a film that will replace public imagination with what they saw from the safety of their drawing rooms. http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/sadanand-menon-cinema-inagehypervisuality/00/16/342933/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 16:31:56 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:01:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Message-ID: <946686.62695.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated  bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us"   One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India.   But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues.     The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good     Kshmendra     EXTRACTS:   - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai.   - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. - .....  many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country.   - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.   - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over.   - .... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam.       "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain DAWN 13th Dec 2008   IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army. It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm       From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 16:58:29 2008 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Message-ID: <421623.17755.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ksmendra, "One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India." I take it you live in delhi. i would like to share a sad personal anecdote - Friday was the human chain event here in bombay.. Its message was no violence, no terror, no war. We are all one here in bombay, here in india. it was organised by civil society groups - the name of the event was mumbai for peace - join hands in unity. http://www.mumbaicitizens.com/a/StartPage.aspx this was just one event in a campaign with medium and longterm objectives the groups name is citizens for peace http://citizensforpeace.in/ i and some friends arrived at dadar tt early to pass out pamphlets. we were about 7 women, ages 9-70. more would be arriving later. we had on tshirts that said - jang nahin, aman chahiye on the back. we started passing out pamphlets. 2 men in their 50s probably, nicely dressed in western casual - came up and we started to give them pamphlets. they stated they were against us and against our movement (in hindi). then they started shouting at us - you are muslims. there were no 'markers' which would let them 'read' us either way, or in any way since things arent binary. we asked - what is wrong with being muslim? we are all mumbaikar. they said no, you are muslim and you are traitors. muslims are traitors. we didnt engage.. we said that they were welcome to not join the chain if they didnt want to. they then left but came back and followed us to everyone we spoke to - saying dont join this, they are traitors, they are muslim. they are against war. taking a step back, what was interesting was their logic. muslim=traitor has always been assumed by a part of the society. it now seems expanded to : not wanting war=muslim=traitor and not wanting war=traitor=you are a muslim. personal anecdote is only that...(tho there have been more than just a few like this lately here in bombay). it is not the big picture. but the big picture doesnt contain the personal acendote, the day to day. let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines. let us try for community, for reason, for honesty about ourselves and for dialogue. kabi Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com ________________________________ From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 4:31:56 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us" One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues. The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good Kshmendra EXTRACTS: - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. - .... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain DAWN 13th Dec 2008 IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army. It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it.. Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail..sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/win/ From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 17:29:59 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:59:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Youth, Violence and Terrorism: A Fatal Attraction Message-ID: <135997.98731.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Youth, Violence and Terrorism: A Fatal Attraction Share Thursday, December 4, 2008 at 10:13pm By Anita Ratnam In the midst of the ghastly images of bloodshed and brutality in Mumbai, the loss of lives and the reign of fear, the images of the young faces of the “terrorists” continue to pose very basic questions about youths attraction to terrorism and violence. What actually makes an educated young person able to turn guns and grenades on innocent people going home from work, eating out at a restaurant or just working/staying in a hotel? Apparently, he manages to dehumanise his victims. He watches them die, becomes numb to the pain of their loved ones and turns oblivious to the sufferings of the injured. Shouldn’t a young man in his early twenties be busy enjoying friendships, creating a career, re-examining faith, exploring his many identities? Youth-hood should be about romantic relationships and discovering the beauty of life. Instead, we see young people turning into monsters who can gloat over a pyrrhic demonic victory, even where their own death is a foregone conclusion. That young people are susceptible to developing a fascination for violence, is something we need to really grapple with. Be it in the Bajrang Dal, the Naxalite groups, the extremist Islamic organisations, Zionists, the LTTE, the mafia gangs, the school shoot outs or indeed the Armies of various countries, young people, especially young men, have demonstrated an attraction towards violence that is unnerving and dangerous. While each of these routes to violence are very different, eventually they share a common denominator of death as an outcome. The incidents in Mumbai force an unflinching gaze on young Muslim youth and their journey to taking part in organised acts of terror. It is not yet clear whether these youth were from Pakistan or from Britain. It is important to point out that there have been significant differences between Muslim youth fighting within countries like Palestine, Turkey, Algeria, Somalia or Chechnya and those who have been recruited into trans-national networks like the Al-Qaeda. While the former are territorially defined and fighting against “occupations” or marginalisation or fighting to establish Islamic States within their countries, the supra- national de-territorialized networks are fighting against the American Imperialism and the “West”. These networks often recruit radicalised Muslim youth living in Europe as well as the Middle East. Their targets too are global “agents” of American imperialism as demonstrated by terror strikes in various cities in Europe and other parts of the world, with Mumbai being the latest site of terror. How does this international network appeal to young educated Muslims ( as well as a few non Muslims who convert) to take on roles as suicide bombers and members of terror squads? Not only has the traditional Leftist Anti Imperialist discourse entrenched in parts of Europe been re-cast in religious terms, the need for solidarity with the suffering community is stressed through powerful narratives and visual imagery about death and humiliation in Kashmir, Bosnia, Palestine etc. Added to this is the heroism offered to young men and women who are convinced they would be avenging the humiliation of the brotherhood. Jihad as personal compulsory duty is invoked and the hope for salvation through sacrifice and death makes violence one of the main fascinations of the recruitment process. Such heroism has immense appeal to young people caught between cultures and inter generational conflicts, unsure of their own identities and convictions. Second and third generation Muslim immigrants in Europe from Algeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and parts of the Middle East are specially vulnerable on this score, making it easier for trans-national terrorist networks to recruit them. All this is not to condone what the group of young “terrorists” did in Mumbai, but to learn lessons from what is happening around us. Whether it is 9/11 or 7/7 or Mumbai on 27/11, connections between youth and terrorism are becoming increasingly evident. Undoubtedly, neo-colonialism, American Imperialism and interventions in the Middle East need to be historically critiqued and may be even problematised by all young people today, irrespective of religion or nationality. Yet, when neo-colonialism is demonised, a healthy and constructive indignation is soon replaced by vicious hatred, intolerance and a sense of moral superiority that paves the way for violence and terror. The heady concoction of ideology, religion, personal salvation and violence is so potent, only someone who is well grounded in a alternative and open discourse of spirituality and faith will be able to withstand such an onslaught. A young person who respects religious diversity , who believes in democracy and dialogue, who is integrated into a multicultural society, who sees jihad as war within oneself and who celebrates a love of life will be able to condemn violence and fragmentation of humankind. While most muslim youth, despite their difficult political circumstances and personal traumas, are able to see the futility and destructiveness of terrorism as a mode to fight the “west”, the tragedy is that it took only 20 -30 recruits to unleash the bloodbath in Mumbai. Is such terrorism limited to radicalised Islam? In India, we are today witnessing a new trend in bomb making and suicide squads with very young recruits among the Sangh Parivar organisations as well. The global networks of the Sangh Parivar are growing both in size and in terms of passion they have been able to invoke.. What does this portend? Here too a nationalist discourse is recast in religious terms, and swadeshi has been coopted as an integral part of the Hindutva vocabulary. A historical narrative of the Hindus as a humiliated nation and wounded community at risk from Islam and Christianity is being propounded and swayam sevaks are projected as martyrs who will save Hindus from further ignominy. When ideological frameworks for analysis and solution seeking are replaced by emotionally charged narratives that create a rage based on a “ identity of humiliation” on religious lines, we are in deep trouble. Whether it is Mumbai riots, the genocide and mass rapes in Gujarat, or attacks on churches in Karnataka or the assaults on adivasis, nuns and priests in Orissa- terror has been unleashed and the use of horrific violence justified. In a recent interview, Pramod Muthalik asserts that the Shri Rama Sena is training young men to assist the police in saving the country from ( mulsim) terrorists. He insists that the Sena itself, despite arms training and suspected involvement in the Malegaon Blasts, is not a terrorist force but an anti terror squad! The terror attacks in Mumbai will only increase their venom towards Muslims. It could even be used to justify a demand for a war with Pakistan or sanctify their aggressive stance towards what they term “enemies of India”. In all this chaos and fomenting of hatred, what comes across clearly is the need to give our young people a grounding in values of social justice, pluralism and secularism through democratic dialogue even as they youthfully explore religion, culture and their multiple identities. Let young men and women genuinely explore their experiences and self-perceptions based on class, gender, sexuality ,ethnicity as well as their interests and affinities in the realms of music, literature or art. Today, a deeper political engagement by young people for democratisation of our world is essential- an engagement that is rooted in ideas and values rather than on constructed narratives, singled out identities, cultural alienation or the need for heroism and salvation through killings. Our hope lies in our young people developing an ability to critique emerging forms of imperialism and to identify the multiple and layered processes of marginalisation and exclusion that are operating within and across nations. Be it feudalism in our hinterlands, or the brutality of neo-liberal market economics, or the exclusion of the majority of Muslims and Scheduled castes from the fruits of double digit growth, or the new forms of gendered violence, young peoples’ critical engagement with larger systems of oppression is the need of the hour. Yet such engagement needs to see beyond narratives, beyond personal experiences to analyse structures, systems, historical phenomenon and embedded hegemonies. For this they desperately need role models, inter-generational understanding, a faith in political institutions and a humanist spirituality either with or without religion. And an ability to occasionally even laugh at oneself! They also need an atmosphere where autonomy to explore their own work and life options, teaches them the value of freedom. Only then can they learn expressions of dissent through democratic dialogue. Only then will any recourse to violence and terror be soundly rejected. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 17:50:24 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:50:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: <946686.62695.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <946686.62695.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that Muslim terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you have heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by madarsa students and scholars for last few years. As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am I wrong? Javed On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us" > > One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. > > But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues. > > The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good > > Kshmendra > > > EXTRACTS: > > - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. > > - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. > > - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. > > - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. > > - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. > > - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. > > - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. > > - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. > > > > > "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain > DAWN > 13th Dec 2008 > > IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. > > > So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army. > > > It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. > > > Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. > > > I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. > > > Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. > > > However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. > > > Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? > > > In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. > > > Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. > > > What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. > > > The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. > > > One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. > > > It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. > > > But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. > > > And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. > > > irfan.husain at gmail.com > http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 18:56:28 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:26:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: <421623.17755.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <234535.68799.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Kabi   Let us put aside the Mumbai Terror Attack for the moment.   It would be foolish of me or anyone to suggest that there are no Indians who hate Muslims or that there are no Indians who automatically see Indian Muslims as being more loyal to Pakistan than India.   It would be equally foolish to think that this is not directly a result of the past history of the sub-continent and indeed to some if not a large extent the behaviour of the Indian Muslims themselves.   Does any kind of a reasoning justify viewing the Indian Muslims in this manner? No it does not for the simple reason that Muslims are as much a part of India as anyone else and such evaluations/deductions harm India, even if their harbourers think that they are protecting India's interests. It may be explained but cannot be justified.   But such attitudes exist. Now add to them the Mumbai Terror attacks with the actors having been identified as Pakistanis. Pakistani Muslims.   You now have a potentially lethal self-igniting cocktail. But, this Moltov remained doused.    Let us accept that and be thankful to some pro-active steps taken by the Indian Muslims themselves, the careful choice of words by most Indian Politicians including surprisingly the "Hindu" Politicians. This in spite of the hysteria whipped up in the Media (especially video) against Pakistan and to some extent against the Muslims (generalised). How can one forget the idiotic comment of Simi Garewal.   Now let us bring in the 7 (9 to 70) ladies at Dadar TT, handing out (presumably 'Peace') leaflets and wearing "jang nahin, aman chahiye" (we want peace, not war) T-shirts.   What you were doing had the potential of re-igniting the doused Moltov. That contradicts your own very meaningful  advisory of " let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines". It might have been a courageous adherence to ideals sought to be put into practice but the 'terrain' was foolishly chosen.   Did you forget that Dadar TT has most of the throughput of trains from CST where quite a few died? Did you forget the public anger against Pakistan which could easily become a throbbing blood-lust of a mob with it's own psyche provoked by your actions?   And yet in the passenger flux of quite a few thousands every hour at Dadar TT, inspite of what I would think was extremely provocative behaviour (in the existing atmosphere) only 2 persons contested what you stood for or name-called you with 'tags'.   Our own ideas complete our world for us. Everyone's world is completed by their own ideas. Just as we would resent/resist our own 'world of ideas' being attacked or rudely intruded into, we should expect the same reaction from others. In these opposing quadrants of 'ideas', the further away the extreme positions are held, the greater and tougher is the travel to the meeting points.   The 7 (9 to 70) ladies should be extremely thankful to the Mumbaikars who showed restraint; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere.   I wish you well.    Kshmendra   PS. The above is a cold evaluation. I empathise with the sadness that you must felt.   --- On Sun, 12/14/08, kabi cubby sherman wrote: From: kabi cubby sherman Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 4:58 PM ksmendra, "One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India."   I take it you live in delhi. i would like to share a sad personal anecdote - Friday was the human chain event here in bombay. Its message was no violence, no terror, no war. We are all one here in bombay, here in india. it was organised by civil society groups - the name of the event was mumbai for peace - join hands in unity. http://www.mumbaicitizens.com/a/StartPage.aspx  this was just one event in a campaign with medium and longterm objectives the groups name is citizens for peace http://citizensforpeace.in/  i and some friends arrived at dadar tt early to pass out pamphlets. we were about 7 women, ages 9-70. more would be arriving later. we had on tshirts that said - jang nahin, aman chahiye on the back. we started passing out pamphlets. 2 men in their 50s probably, nicely dressed in western casual - came up and we started to give them pamphlets.  they stated they were against us and against our movement (in hindi). then they started shouting at us - you are muslims. there were no 'markers' which would let them 'read' us either way, or in any way since things arent binary. we asked - what is wrong with being muslim? we are all mumbaikar.. they said no, you are muslim and you are traitors. muslims are traitors.. we didnt engage.. we said that they were welcome to not join the chain if they didnt want to. they then left but came back and followed us to everyone we spoke to - saying dont join this, they are traitors, they are muslim. they are against war. taking a step back, what was interesting was their logic. muslim=traitor has always been assumed by a part of the society. it now seems expanded to : not wanting war=muslim=traitor and not wanting war=traitor=you are a muslim. personal anecdote is only that...(tho there have been more than just a few like this lately here in bombay). it is not the big picture. but the big picture doesnt contain the personal acendote, the day to day. let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines. let us try for community, for reason, for honesty about ourselves and for dialogue. kabi  Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 4:31:56 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated  bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us"   One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India.   But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues.     The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good     Kshmendra     EXTRACTS:   - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai.   - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ........ In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. - .....  many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country.   - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.   - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over.   - .... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam.       "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain DAWN 13th Dec 2008   IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army.. It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm             _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 19:22:13 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:22:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812140552k6fef97f1s464b82e6d0f47871@mail.gmail.com> Dearest Javed miyan, It is great to see further clarification from your end, yet again here on this forum. Wonger how long this cycle will contine. Anyways. I still have a thing or two to mention. Thanks, for not attempting to reform me. Personally, I think I don't need to reform, but to get more education, be more aware and empathetic. Coming back to Terrorism which is Islamic. It isn't me alone who has coined this term 'Islamic Terrorism'; it is the media, the politicians, the common people, the lawyers, the victims, and everyone echoing in chorus. It is something we all have now experienced directly or indirectly. I'm glad you have made yourself clear, that you don't defend those inhuman and mentally sick Jihadi elements. I find the following particular line of yours quite disturbing as everyone else in this form would have, "As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in this country - we don't want Pak sympathy)." While I appreciate your courage to dismiss Pak completely, but at the same time, In this line, What do you exactly want to prove? What massacre are you talking about? Who will take revenge against whom ? Isn't this getting too much divided among ourselves? I feel Indian Muslims are happy and prosperous as anybody else is in this secular and diverse country. Its immature and equally dangerous to generalise things in this order. It would only create disturbance at a point when two nuclear powers are at logger heads and we have chance of a war. I don't think and rubbish your claim that banning of saffron outfits is connected with the 'war on terror' and overall current JuD banning process and that of establishing and bring to book the criminals and mindless people behind gruesome Mumbai attacks. I reiterate, what I said before. We need to be united against Terror at a time when country is under continuous Jihadi threat. You have been actually deviating this too much further now, Mr. Javed, maybe because of your unfortunate lack of knowledge. Why do you want to get JuD, LeT like banned Islamic Terrorist outfits on the same page along RSS, VHP etc. (who are not in picture at this moment). ??? This suggests your intention to defend Islamic terror mindset at least or throw some other irrelevant argument ahead so that the original issue is mixed in this jumble. I don't think it goes on too well here, Sir. Certainly, less amount of hatred will result in creating a path for peace. This has been missing and is the need of the hour. But, how long will be suffer terror Attucks from across the border killing hundreds of innocent Indians daily in Kashmir, Delhi, Jaipur, Bangalore, Lucknow and elsewhere. We cannot tolerate it any further. The training camps across the border need to be eliminated to begin with. This is a short term solution with a longer impact. At a time when Pakistan, is reluctant to cooperate with India against terrorism, why should we show a positive approach and deal softly always ? Islamic Fundamentalists and Terrorists have been a pain everywhere be it India, Bangaladesh, France, USA, Britain, Spain etc etc. We can't just keep suffering this horror. World has to unite against these ill-minded and devil Terrorists. How will Kashmiri Pandits be rehabilitated when the killers live there freely? When the separatists are moving with peace and freedom ? Its a puzzle. Easier said then done. Thanks On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: > > Dear Aditya > I never claimed I am on the right path (whatever that is), but you > did. So that's fine. I have no intention of reforming you either. Let > me clarify that I am in no way trying to defend what you call the > "Islamic terrorism", and I am as much pained by the death of innocent > people in Mumbai as you are. As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse > to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the > Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in > this country - we don't want Pak sympathy). But why I brought the > subject of banning the saffron outfits (in response to the JuD news) > because I think it is connected with the larger "war on terror". > > Once again, I don't want to start the debate of "who began it all" but > the point is that the terrorist supposedly trained in Pakistan says > they were shown videos of Muslim massacre in Gujarat and hate-speeches > of Modi to incite the hatred against India and Hindus. I know that > this is a standard practice on both sides of the border. RSS shakhas > and Bajrang Dal camps also show disturbing images of the "deeds done > by Muslims" to sow the hatred in their cadre. It is a reciprocal game, > a vicious circle that is going on in South Asia for many decades, > resulting in this terrible situation. If we want to keep it unchanged, > then fine, we should expect more terror attacks (God forbid). But, if > we are serious about eradicating terror in the region, tighter > security and intelligence will certainly play a big role, but a bigger > difference can be made if we reduce the reasons for hatred in every > walk of life. That is why it is important to root out the different > institutions of hatred on both sides of the border. That is the point > I am trying to make. A mere jingoism and patriotism will not bring a > long-term solution. I hope you understand. I am sure that the > reduction of hate-propaganda between the 2 countries and 2 communities > could probably even help the Kashmiri Pandits to rehabilitate (which I > would very much like). > > Javed > > > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > > wrote: > > Dear Javed, > > > > Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no > > different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only > to > > tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at > such > > an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I > never > > said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't > > reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only > > place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. > > > > We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage > > when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. > > Isn't that logic ? > > > > In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, > > which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been > > feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no > doubt > > in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued > > onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. > > > > Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very > obvious > > reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have > > problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak > > openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other > > viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously > > elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. > > > > You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you > > which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why > > bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of > nowhere? > > And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. > > > > Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and > > the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those > > ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, > > even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which > have > > been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and > > understand. > > > > Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you > to > > the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with > cross > > border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which > > slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state > guests. > > Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and > > everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong > > action or maybe tough laws. > > > > I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to > > debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old > > lines again and again. > > > > Thanks > > > > . > > > > On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: > >> > >> Dear Aditya > >> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at > >> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to > >> know. > >> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same > >> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see > >> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to > >> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in > >> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of > >> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why > >> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring > >> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned > >> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I > >> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of > >> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your > >> mail about "initators". > >> > >> J > >> > >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > >> wrote: > >> > Dear Javed, > >> > > >> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing > >> but > >> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our > >> internal > >> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing > about > >> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things > in > >> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. > >> > > >> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot > >> just > >> > rubbish it without an argument. > >> > > >> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin > of > >> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, > >> not > >> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well > >> physical > >> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. > >> Pakistan > >> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House > Arresting' > >> few > >> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state > guests. > >> > > >> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody > tirade. > >> It > >> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do > >> this > >> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this > crazy > >> > blind Jihad. > >> > > >> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist > >> threat. > >> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. > >> > > >> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always > correct > >> your > >> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, > we > >> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean > we > >> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some > >> > crackpots. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> > > >> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha > >> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to > >> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned > >> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" > >> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You > will > >> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first > >> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the > >> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy > >> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be > >> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. > >> >> > >> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among > ourselves, > >> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each > group > >> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I > >> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be > >> >> honest and just in this case. > >> >> > >> >> Javed > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Dear Srirang, > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic > Terrorism' > >> >> which > >> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this > provocation > >> in > >> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally > >> >> extremist. > >> >> > > >> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism > in > >> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks > >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> > > >> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha < > jha.srirang at gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that > tries > >> to > >> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because > >> action > >> >> is > >> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I > wish > >> >> Javed > >> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist > >> >> organizations > >> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is > >> befitting. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Srirang Jha > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > >> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) > >> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference > >> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat > >> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) > >> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) > >> >> >>> 6) CPI > >> >> >>> ..................there are many more. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant > >> >> >>> provocation. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> I'm all ears.. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Thanks > >> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics > >> and > >> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai > terror). I > >> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown > terror > >> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A > >> movement > >> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani > >> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN > >> Security > >> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and > >> >> >>> > charity > >> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the > government > >> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN > >> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of > the > >> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely > viewed > >> as > >> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan > has > >> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and > entities > >> by > >> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and > would > >> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement > >> said. > >> >> >>> > _________________________________________ > >> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >>> > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> > >> >> > _________________________________________ > >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 19:23:19 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:53:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <997997.49208.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Regarding the question at the end of your post;Yes you are wrong and you are a troublemaker.   In my eyes, your formulations and propagations make you suspect of devious intentions meant to instigate Indian Muslims. You are their enemy and not their friend. That is evidenced by your postings on this List.   You are one of those people I was refering to when I wrote "some on this List itself have suggested / propagated  bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks."   The divides that you seek to create become obvious in these words of yours "the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at the most ordinary levels." You cannot be quite such a dimwit to not know that "Indian Society" includes "Indian Muslims".   Your recent convoluted proposal has been "If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits"   What kind of a Zero-Sum game did you propose? Conversely your suggestion reads "If Pakistan DOES NOT ban JUD, we SHOULD NOT demand banning of saffron outfits"   What does our banning or not banning in India of any 'outfit' have to do with what Pakistan does or does not do?   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 5:50 PM Dear Kshmendra This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that Muslim terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you have heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by madarsa students and scholars for last few years. As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am I wrong? Javed On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us" > > One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. > > But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues. > > The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good > > Kshmendra > > > EXTRACTS: > > - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. > > - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. > > - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. > > - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. > > - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. > > - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. > > - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. > > - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. > > > > > "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain > DAWN > 13th Dec 2008 > > IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. > > > So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army. > > > It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. > > > Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. > > > I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. > > > Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. > > > However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. > > > Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? > > > In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. > > > Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. > > > What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. > > > The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. > > > One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. > > > It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. > > > But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. > > > And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. > > > irfan.husain at gmail.com > http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 20:15:35 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:15:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <6353c690812140552k6fef97f1s464b82e6d0f47871@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812140552k6fef97f1s464b82e6d0f47871@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya Just a clarification: When I said "we can deal with our struggles our own way" I don't mean that Indian Muslims can take their own revenge. I used the word "struggle", not revenge or terror or anything adverse. Muslims are struggling in this country just as dalits and tribals are against the atrocities or the state and other majoritarian powers. If you think Muslims are happy and prosperous then maybe you think the Sachar Committe report is a lie. When I mentioned the word massacre, I was talking of the Nellie massacre of Assam (1983) where over 2000 Muslims were killed, and Hashimpura massacre of Meerut, and Gujarat pogrom of 2002 when (officially) over 2000 Muslims were killed. There are several others in between - I could provide the detailed list if you wish. (But, I am not in any way justifying the "Islamic terror" with these communal massacres and riots. I am simply answering your question.) Javed On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dearest Javed miyan, > > It is great to see further clarification from your end, yet again here on > this forum. Wonger how long this cycle will contine. Anyways. I still have a > thing or two to mention. > > Thanks, for not attempting to reform me. Personally, I think I don't need to > reform, but to get more education, be more aware and empathetic. Coming back > to Terrorism which is Islamic. It isn't me alone who has coined this term > 'Islamic Terrorism'; it is the media, the politicians, the common people, > the lawyers, the victims, and everyone echoing in chorus. It is something we > all have now experienced directly or indirectly. I'm glad you have made > yourself clear, that you don't defend those inhuman and mentally sick Jihadi > elements. > > I find the following particular line of yours quite disturbing as everyone > else in this form would have, "As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse to > accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the Indian > Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in this country > - we don't want Pak sympathy)." > > While I appreciate your courage to dismiss Pak completely, but at the same > time, In this line, What do you exactly want to prove? What massacre are you > talking about? Who will take revenge against whom ? Isn't this getting too > much divided among ourselves? I feel Indian Muslims are happy and prosperous > as anybody else is in this secular and diverse country. Its immature and > equally dangerous to generalise things in this order. It would only create > disturbance at a point when two nuclear powers are at logger heads and we > have chance of a war. > > I don't think and rubbish your claim that banning of saffron outfits is > connected with the 'war on terror' and overall current JuD banning process > and that of establishing and bring to book the criminals and mindless people > behind gruesome Mumbai attacks. I reiterate, what I said before. We need to > be united against Terror at a time when country is under continuous Jihadi > threat. You have been actually deviating this too much further now, Mr. > Javed, maybe because of your unfortunate lack of knowledge. > > Why do you want to get JuD, LeT like banned Islamic Terrorist outfits on the > same page along RSS, VHP etc. (who are not in picture at this moment). ??? > This suggests your intention to defend Islamic terror mindset at least or > throw some other irrelevant argument ahead so that the original issue is > mixed in this jumble. I don't think it goes on too well here, Sir. > > Certainly, less amount of hatred will result in creating a path for peace. > This has been missing and is the need of the hour. But, how long will be > suffer terror Attucks from across the border killing hundreds of innocent > Indians daily in Kashmir, Delhi, Jaipur, Bangalore, Lucknow and elsewhere. > We cannot tolerate it any further. The training camps across the border need > to be eliminated to begin with. This is a short term solution with a longer > impact. At a time when Pakistan, is reluctant to cooperate with India > against terrorism, why should we show a positive approach and deal softly > always ? > > Islamic Fundamentalists and Terrorists have been a pain everywhere be it > India, Bangaladesh, France, USA, Britain, Spain etc etc. We can't just keep > suffering this horror. World has to unite against these ill-minded and devil > Terrorists. > > How will Kashmiri Pandits be rehabilitated when the killers live there > freely? When the separatists are moving with peace and freedom ? Its a > puzzle. Easier said then done. > > Thanks > > > On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: >> >> Dear Aditya >> I never claimed I am on the right path (whatever that is), but you >> did. So that's fine. I have no intention of reforming you either. Let >> me clarify that I am in no way trying to defend what you call the >> "Islamic terrorism", and I am as much pained by the death of innocent >> people in Mumbai as you are. As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse >> to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the >> Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in >> this country - we don't want Pak sympathy). But why I brought the >> subject of banning the saffron outfits (in response to the JuD news) >> because I think it is connected with the larger "war on terror". >> >> Once again, I don't want to start the debate of "who began it all" but >> the point is that the terrorist supposedly trained in Pakistan says >> they were shown videos of Muslim massacre in Gujarat and hate-speeches >> of Modi to incite the hatred against India and Hindus. I know that >> this is a standard practice on both sides of the border. RSS shakhas >> and Bajrang Dal camps also show disturbing images of the "deeds done >> by Muslims" to sow the hatred in their cadre. It is a reciprocal game, >> a vicious circle that is going on in South Asia for many decades, >> resulting in this terrible situation. If we want to keep it unchanged, >> then fine, we should expect more terror attacks (God forbid). But, if >> we are serious about eradicating terror in the region, tighter >> security and intelligence will certainly play a big role, but a bigger >> difference can be made if we reduce the reasons for hatred in every >> walk of life. That is why it is important to root out the different >> institutions of hatred on both sides of the border. That is the point >> I am trying to make. A mere jingoism and patriotism will not bring a >> long-term solution. I hope you understand. I am sure that the >> reduction of hate-propaganda between the 2 countries and 2 communities >> could probably even help the Kashmiri Pandits to rehabilitate (which I >> would very much like). >> >> Javed >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> wrote: >> > Dear Javed, >> > >> > Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no >> > different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only >> to >> > tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at >> such >> > an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I >> never >> > said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't >> > reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only >> > place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. >> > >> > We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage >> > when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. >> > Isn't that logic ? >> > >> > In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, >> > which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been >> > feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no >> doubt >> > in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued >> > onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. >> > >> > Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very >> obvious >> > reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have >> > problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak >> > openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other >> > viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously >> > elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. >> > >> > You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you >> > which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why >> > bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of >> nowhere? >> > And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. >> > >> > Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and >> > the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those >> > ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, >> > even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which >> have >> > been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and >> > understand. >> > >> > Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you >> to >> > the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with >> cross >> > border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which >> > slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state >> guests. >> > Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and >> > everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong >> > action or maybe tough laws. >> > >> > I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to >> > debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old >> > lines again and again. >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > . >> > >> > On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Aditya >> >> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at >> >> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to >> >> know. >> >> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same >> >> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see >> >> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to >> >> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in >> >> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of >> >> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why >> >> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring >> >> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned >> >> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I >> >> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of >> >> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your >> >> mail about "initators". >> >> >> >> J >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Javed, >> >> > >> >> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing >> >> but >> >> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our >> >> internal >> >> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing >> about >> >> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things >> in >> >> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. >> >> > >> >> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot >> >> just >> >> > rubbish it without an argument. >> >> > >> >> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin >> of >> >> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, >> >> not >> >> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well >> >> physical >> >> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. >> >> Pakistan >> >> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House >> Arresting' >> >> few >> >> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state >> guests. >> >> > >> >> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody >> tirade. >> >> It >> >> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do >> >> this >> >> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this >> crazy >> >> > blind Jihad. >> >> > >> >> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist >> >> threat. >> >> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. >> >> > >> >> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always >> correct >> >> your >> >> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, >> we >> >> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean >> we >> >> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some >> >> > crackpots. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha >> >> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to >> >> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned >> >> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" >> >> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You >> will >> >> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first >> >> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the >> >> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy >> >> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be >> >> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. >> >> >> >> >> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among >> ourselves, >> >> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each >> group >> >> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I >> >> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be >> >> >> honest and just in this case. >> >> >> >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > Dear Srirang, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic >> Terrorism' >> >> >> which >> >> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this >> provocation >> >> in >> >> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally >> >> >> extremist. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism >> in >> >> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Thanks >> >> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha < >> jha.srirang at gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that >> tries >> >> to >> >> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because >> >> action >> >> >> is >> >> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I >> wish >> >> >> Javed >> >> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist >> >> >> organizations >> >> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is >> >> befitting. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Srirang Jha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >> >> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >> >> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >> >> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >> >> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >> >> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >> >> >> >>> 6) CPI >> >> >> >>> ..................there are many more. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >> >> >> >>> provocation. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> I'm all ears.. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Thanks >> >> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics >> >> and >> >> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai >> terror). I >> >> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown >> terror >> >> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A >> >> movement >> >> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >> >> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN >> >> Security >> >> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >> >> >> >>> > charity >> >> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the >> government >> >> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >> >> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of >> the >> >> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely >> viewed >> >> as >> >> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan >> has >> >> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and >> entities >> >> by >> >> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and >> would >> >> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement >> >> said. >> >> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >>> > List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > -- >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 20:16:42 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:16:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <07D169CA4DBD4FBF93DBE93D03091ABD@tara> References: <6353c690812110838q3ff17234ma7a8fd2658826cbe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> <07D169CA4DBD4FBF93DBE93D03091ABD@tara> Message-ID: This mail from some Vidya is very enlightening. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vidya Date: Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD,we should demand banning of saffron outfits To: Javed Javed. You stink of communal mindset. You thought that when these jihadi groups are being banned why not these bastard who fight for hindu cause be banned. If you think of the problem from Hindu-Musllim communal angle you may be right. But from secular and sensible angle doesn't show any link between the two. There are some groups which are fighting on Indian territory for more space on Indian territory. But These Hindu outfits never sent groups to your beloved Pakistan to kill your family members (Muslims). But your beloved family members came to India and they keep coming to India to kill Indians, for them Indians means Hindus. If you live in India or your family members are here, they are all Hindus. If you are a true Muslaman you should be in Pakistan, you may not be accepted with open hands as Mujahirs were not. But suffer a bit for the cause of Islam. So there you are. Either you tell Pakistan to merge with India and then let the fight between these groups go on. Or ban all of these groups, then this terrorism spread by the groups sympathized by you will not be equal to international terrorism. It will be the responsibility of this country to control all the elements. Right now it is international terrorism in which, these groups with whom you sympathize, are indulging in. India needs to ban many groups, There are some Muslim communal groups too which were missing from your suggested list of groups that should be banned. So you are communal and no better than these groups you want to ban. You should be banned as well. But I do sympathize with your frustration that these kafirs spread all over the world, including in Pakistan, are hampering the path of Jihad, your cherrished pan-islamic world is being turned in to a distant dream. We qafirs will go to hell where Allah will screw us badly. And then the groups you sympathize with will all rejoyce in his lap. Till then, long live secularism. Let me say again, this is not a hindu-muslim issue. It is a geopolitical issue. India never told Pakistan to ban the groups which restrict themselves to Pakistan in fomenting hatred against Shia Muslims. India never told Pakistan to ban groups which are fighting with in your sacred land (pak sthan) India never told Pakistan to ban groups which foment hatred against minorities with in their territory, it is the your Pakistan government that needs to do something for it. But when they come here to India, and kill indiscriminately then the problem arises. Why not Javed, you and other people who think like you, go to the capital of whatever country you are living in, demand with your government to lift sanctions from Islami jihadi groups because India has not banned the Hindu groups, they can never ban all of these groups even if they so badly want that, some of the groups are political parties which our judiciary will protect. And even if shiv sena is banned, BJP will never be, so only option should be to start an armed uprising against your government, establish another Lashkar-e-Javed group. Good luck. I hope you will be able to watch the spectacle when Allah will screw me. Being a woman, it is my double fault, I will be screwed multiple times. You see, that is why I don't want to die, to keep away from being screwed away as much as possible. There is no doubt in my mind that many others also want to avoid being screwed up for as long as possible. You can understand, I don't have time to perform namaz 5 times. I like bollywood music too. I want women to get educated in this allahless land. So I want these groups be banned. Sorry Javed, I am a qafir, I cannot convert and many are suffering my fate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javed" To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD,we should demand banning of saffron outfits > Dear Aditya > I never claimed I am on the right path (whatever that is), but you > did. So that's fine. I have no intention of reforming you either. Let > me clarify that I am in no way trying to defend what you call the > "Islamic terrorism", and I am as much pained by the death of innocent > people in Mumbai as you are. As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse > to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the > Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in > this country - we don't want Pak sympathy). But why I brought the > subject of banning the saffron outfits (in response to the JuD news) > because I think it is connected with the larger "war on terror". > > Once again, I don't want to start the debate of "who began it all" but > the point is that the terrorist supposedly trained in Pakistan says > they were shown videos of Muslim massacre in Gujarat and hate-speeches > of Modi to incite the hatred against India and Hindus. I know that > this is a standard practice on both sides of the border. RSS shakhas > and Bajrang Dal camps also show disturbing images of the "deeds done > by Muslims" to sow the hatred in their cadre. It is a reciprocal game, > a vicious circle that is going on in South Asia for many decades, > resulting in this terrible situation. If we want to keep it unchanged, > then fine, we should expect more terror attacks (God forbid). But, if > we are serious about eradicating terror in the region, tighter > security and intelligence will certainly play a big role, but a bigger > difference can be made if we reduce the reasons for hatred in every > walk of life. That is why it is important to root out the different > institutions of hatred on both sides of the border. That is the point > I am trying to make. A mere jingoism and patriotism will not bring a > long-term solution. I hope you understand. I am sure that the > reduction of hate-propaganda between the 2 countries and 2 communities > could probably even help the Kashmiri Pandits to rehabilitate (which I > would very much like). > > Javed > > > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: >> >> Dear Javed, >> >> Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no >> different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only to >> tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at such >> an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I never >> said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't >> reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only >> place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. >> >> We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage >> when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. >> Isn't that logic ? >> >> In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, >> which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been >> feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no doubt >> in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued >> onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. >> >> Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very obvious >> reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have >> problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak >> openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other >> viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously >> elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. >> >> You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you >> which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why >> bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of nowhere? >> And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. >> >> Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and >> the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those >> ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, >> even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which have >> been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and >> understand. >> >> Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you to >> the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with cross >> border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which >> slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state guests. >> Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and >> everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong >> action or maybe tough laws. >> >> I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to >> debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old >> lines again and again. >> >> Thanks >> >> . >> >> On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: >>> >>> Dear Aditya >>> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at >>> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to >>> know. >>> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same >>> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see >>> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to >>> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in >>> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of >>> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why >>> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring >>> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned >>> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I >>> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of >>> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your >>> mail about "initators". >>> >>> J >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >>> wrote: >>> > Dear Javed, >>> > >>> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing >>> but >>> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our >>> internal >>> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing > about >>> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things > in >>> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. >>> > >>> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot >>> just >>> > rubbish it without an argument. >>> > >>> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin > of >>> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, >>> not >>> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well >>> physical >>> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. >>> Pakistan >>> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House > Arresting' >>> few >>> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state > guests. >>> > >>> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody > tirade. >>> It >>> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do >>> this >>> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this > crazy >>> > blind Jihad. >>> > >>> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist >>> threat. >>> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. >>> > >>> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always > correct >>> your >>> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, > we >>> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean > we >>> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some >>> > crackpots. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Aditya Raj Kaul >>> > >>> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: >>> > >>> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha >>> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to >>> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned >>> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" >>> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You >> will >>> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first >>> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the >>> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy >>> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be >>> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. >>> >> >>> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among >> ourselves, >>> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each >> group >>> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I >>> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be >>> >> honest and just in this case. >>> >> >>> >> Javed >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Dear Srirang, >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic >> > Terrorism' >>> >> which >>> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this >> > provocation >>> in >>> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally >>> >> extremist. >>> >> > >>> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism >> > in >>> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks >>> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha >> > >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that >> >> tries >>> to >>> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because >>> action >>> >> is >>> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I >> >> wish >>> >> Javed >>> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist >>> >> organizations >>> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is >>> befitting. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Srirang Jha >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >>> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >>> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >>> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >>> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >>> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >>> >> >>> 6) CPI >>> >> >>> ..................there are many more. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >>> >> >>> provocation. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I'm all ears.. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Thanks >>> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics >>> and >>> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai >> >>> > terror). I >>> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown >> >>> > terror >>> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A >>> movement >>> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >>> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN >>> Security >>> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >>> >> >>> > charity >>> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the >> >>> > government >>> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >>> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of >> >>> > the >>> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely >> >>> > viewed >>> as >>> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan >> >>> > has >>> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and >> >>> > entities >>> by >>> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and >> >>> > would >>> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement >>> said. >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >>> > with >>> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> >>> > List archive: >> >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> >>> >> > _________________________________________ >>> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 20:23:12 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:23:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: <997997.49208.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <997997.49208.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra Yes I am a dimwit (if that helps your ego), but I am not a troublemaker. I didn't suggest any conspiracy theory about Mumbai. If I have to repeat it again and again that "I am against terrorism and I cry for Mumbai victims as much as anyone" then I think anyone who doesn't read my mail properly must be equally dimwit. J On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > Regarding the question at the end of your post;Yes you are wrong and you are > a troublemaker. > > In my eyes, your formulations and propagations make you suspect of devious > intentions meant to instigate Indian Muslims. You are their enemy and not > their friend. That is evidenced by your postings on this List. > > You are one of those people I was refering to when I wrote "some on this > List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about > the Mumbai Terror Attacks." > > The divides that you seek to create become obvious in these words of yours > "the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at the most > ordinary levels." You cannot be quite such a dimwit to not know that "Indian > Society" includes "Indian Muslims". > > Your recent convoluted proposal has been "If Pakistan bans JuD, we should > demand banning of saffron outfits" > > What kind of a Zero-Sum game did you propose? Conversely your suggestion > reads "If Pakistan DOES NOT ban JUD, we SHOULD NOT demand banning of saffron > outfits" > > What does our banning or not banning in India of any 'outfit' have to do > with what Pakistan does or does not do? > > Kshmendra > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in > DAWN > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 5:50 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that Muslim > terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are > "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you have > heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by > madarsa students and scholars for last few years. > > As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai > attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just > because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now > shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be > shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media > doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing > against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell > someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they > look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am > I wrong? > > Javed > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply > not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians > also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre > conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. >> >> Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the > 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions > that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical > outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the > attacks > on us" >> >> One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been > that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. >> >> But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred > to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and > extricated > cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by > Indians of all hues. >> >> The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the > Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against > the > convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They > need > support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile > argumentation > that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will > do > harm to the Muslims and will do no good >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> EXTRACTS: >> >> - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate > conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity > in > Mumbai. >> >> - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and > are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is > as > it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality > shifts > according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective > truth. >> >> - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror > networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. >> >> - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not > willing to face the truth. >> >> - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created > ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status > without doing something to change it. >> >> - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of > groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >> >> - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and > groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We > have > seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in > jail > or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >> >> - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of > religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this > environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is > perfectly > acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in > the > name of Islam. >> >> >> >> >> "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain >> DAWN >> 13th Dec 2008 >> >> IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai > attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. >> >> >> So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate > conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity > in > Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of > this > newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief > proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a > three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent > in > our army. >> >> >> It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are > seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as > it > seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from > behind > the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this > parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your > point > of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. >> >> >> Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails > regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been > attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by > other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very > strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. >> >> >> I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the > terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. > And > while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our > borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when > their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that > the > recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers > have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. > Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus > absolving me of the duty to respond. >> >> >> Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are > simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not > demand > the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in > the > first place. >> >> >> However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones > given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most > straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that > the > 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy > who > said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of > Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the > British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was > going > to marry a Muslim. >> >> >> Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with > lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for > the > global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this > terror > campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if > the > leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is > the > rest of the world supposed to do? >> >> >> In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and > pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as > President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. > This > is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we > have > created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim > status without doing something to change it. >> >> >> Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in > Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find > all > kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to > Iraq > to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response > to > western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir > is > used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >> >> >> What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal > for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT > have > furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? > The > fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians > does > not gain any cause any support. >> >> >> The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and > groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We > have > seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in > jail > or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >> >> >> One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since > Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has > come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of > Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute > religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. >> >> >> It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless > space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed > border > with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, > and > you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this > lethal > cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating > gainful > employment for millions of young Pakistanis. >> >> >> But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants > Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. > However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve > needed > to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking > strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. >> >> >> And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our > intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their > proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological > links > with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change > overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. >> >> >> irfan.husain at gmail.com >> http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 20:23:52 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:23:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: the ascent of humanity by Charles Eisenstein Message-ID: <47e122a70812140653s1a17a404wf0375246f8cdffe3@mail.gmail.com> Enormous forces must be applied to render a human being into a killer, someone who could cut down forests, tear up land, or kill innocent people. To do the things we do requires that we be removed from our natural-born state of wholeness, enchantment, connectedness, and... the above two lines are from the essay below: http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter8-5.php Eulogy and Redemption What, then, of the victims? What shall we say to the men, women, and children whose ruined lives have followed in the wake of our "ascent"? Should we not lament the billions of passenger pigeons whose flocks once darkened the skies? Should we not mourn the dodo, the great auk, the American chestnut, and the millions more now following them to extinction? What of the elder bushes, a century old, keystone species of a fantastic ecology torn up and paved over to build a new road? What of the forests turned to deserts? The native children shot for sport by white settlers? The women tortured and burned alive as witches for practicing herbal medicine? The schoolchildren today, cajoled, coerced, and medicated into spending the Kingdom of Childhood behind a desk, in a room, standing in line? The coal miners of 19th-century England, emerging decades later stunted, broken, and destitute from the mines? The babies deprived of the breast? The women raped, the men tortured and killed, the children watching the soldiers who did it? What can we say of the concentration camps, Auschwitz, the Gulag, the unspeakable hardship of the men sentenced to a lingering death at hard labor? What shall we say to the victims of communist purges, and to the families sent a bill for the executioner's bullet? What of the black man beaten and lynched, and a picture postcard of the event sent to his mother? What shall we say to the starving children, past the point of hunger, bodies falling apart? And what shall we say to their mothers? And what of the children working working in toy factories, rug factories, chocolate plantations? The countless assembly line workers, their human creativity reduced to a few rote movements, producing empty consumer junk out of toxic materials destined sooner rather than later for the landfill? The betrayal after betrayal of the Native Americans, people massacred, lands cheated, religion outlawed, culture purposefully destroyed? The cancer victims of a poisoned world? The slaves long ago who labored on the Pyramids? Contrast a life carrying stone to the life of a hunter-gatherer, and the bargain we have made becomes clear. In this, the first monument to the Machine, the folly and the horror of our ascent is clear: an exchange of life for labor to erect a useless edifice. No authentic peace with the world can be achieved in ignorance of the facts. Read books like A Language Older Than Words, Night, Gulag Archipelago, The Dying of the Trees, The Lost Language of Plants, Evolution's End, Trail of Tears, Rebels Against the Future. We must be utterly clear about what our civilization has wrought. If we, like the technological Utopians of the Industrial Revolution justifying the mines and mills, maintain that the sacrifices of the victims are a necessary and worthwhile price to pay for our ascent to a higher state, then we must be be clear on what that price has been. The price of Separation has been no other, and could be no other, than the furthest possible extreme of evil. That the Reunion I have spoken of, the rebirth at a higher level of consciousness, could only come through resolving and integrating our age-old course of Separation is not a justification of its evil, no more than a criminal's remorse or a victim's forgiveness justifies the crime. Nonetheless, there is another way to understand the suffering of Separation's victims. Some years ago, a man I know very well was obliged to dig up a splendid burdock plant that grew outside his home. He had been asked to dig it up before, and in a semblance of compliance had halfheartedly sheared off the leaves, leaving the root intact. This time his wife supervised him to ensure that he did it right, that he dug it up root and all. Every moment his heart was heavy, but his fear of his wife's anger was enough to overcome his reluctance and prevent him from standing up for his integrity. Something changed that day; in his words, "Our marriage has survived many onslaughts because it had a strong, deep root, and now that is gone." The plant had kept coming back, it wanted to grow there, but the man imposed his will, which was not even truly his own, onto nature. He got nature under control. The fate of that burdock plant, the process by which it was destroyed, is really no different in essence from the worst extremes of ecocide and genocide. In both there is a perceived necessity, a fear that overcomes our goodness, and a destruction of the innocent. But later, after the marriage went through a tumultuous period, he realized that the burdock had given him an important teaching that only its self-sacrifice could have delivered. It was a teaching about boundaries, integrity, communication, and change, and he had a clear sense that the plant chose to grow there precisely for that teaching. Donna Gates, the woman who developed the Body Ecology protocol for curing autism, once told me that she has noticed a similarity among autistic children's households. Beyond the proximate factors of vaccines, mercury, antibiotics and other body ecology disruptions lies a deeper reason for autism—a purpose, not a cause. She believes that these children have in some sense chosen to be born into their circumstances as a way to bring a great gift to their parents and families. Of course, few parents see autism as a gift—having an autistic child is like having a permanent infant who requires intense care and never grows up. In many cases, normal life becomes impossible as the demands of the child consume all leisure time. Life ambitions give way to the demands of caring for another being without thought of recompense. Reread that last sentence. Isn't that precisely the prescription for joy that the saints have given us through the ages? Perhaps these children are noble spirits choosing their incarnation as a way to help us understand what is important in life. Donna has observed that autism strikes disproportionately in households where life was otherwise smooth sailing, in which the vacuity of modern goals and priorities would otherwise never have become apparent, at least not until time and youth were exhausted. Many autistic and otherwise "mentally retarded" children possess an undeniable spiritual quality about them: the description "special" is not merely a euphemism. When they are healed of autism this quality remains: they are often remarkably selfless, content, compassionate, affectionate, and emotionally mature. In one sense, yes they are the innocent victims of modern birthing practices, medical practices, pollution, and dietary ignorance, but from a higher perspective they fulfill a noble purpose in our society's healing. We often think of misfortune as some kind of punishment for past evil, a theme which runs through religious thought both East and West. In the East it is the idea that present suffering represents the negative karma generated through past misdeeds; in the West we have the image of Yahweh striking down the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins, threatening Ninevah for its "wickedness". However, the self-evident fact that it is often the innocent who suffer the most demands all kinds of theological contortions, from past lives to original sin, from future rebirth to Heaven and Hell.i How else to explain the sweet, innocent babies in the children's cancer wards? If we are not to resort to blind, pitiless, purposeless chance, we need another explanation for the innocence of our victims. Perhaps they are great souls, meeting the huge necessity for innocent victims that our civilization has wrought. "I will go," they say. "I am big enough. I am ready for this experience." We might look on whole peoples, cultures, or even species in the same way. While we might understand the decay of our civilization as a just dessert for the violence it has perpetrated, how can we explain the destruction of the beautiful indigenous cultures of North America (or any continent you care to choose)? What sin against God, man, or nature could justify their violent extinction? True, some were supposedly warlike and unfriendly to outsiders, but many amazed their first European contacts with their childlike trust and easy generosity. None of them, not even the most warlike, perpetrated anything comparable to the human and environmental ruin that are the handiwork of Machine civilizations. We might just as well try to explain how three-year-olds dying of cancer actually deserved it. No, if we are to believe in a purposeful universe, we must look elsewhere for an answer. The answer I offer you is that all of the people, cultures, species, and ecosystems that we have destroyed constitute, together, a medicine for the great disease of our civilization, the disease named Separation. It is in the nature of the disease to destroy what is beautiful: to convert reality into a data set and life into money, with all the violence that such reduction of life implies. In the process of separation and eventual reunion at a higher level, selfless beings who already live in non-separation are structurally necessary. They, like the burdock root, like the autistic children, have taken on a noble and magnanimous role. The cultures, species, and people we have extirpated have delivered to us a teaching and a medicine. The cultures we have destroyed have not vanished without a trace. Anything we destroy leaves its imprint on our own spirit, whether on the personal or cultural level, automatically becoming a future medicine when it emerges into conscious experience. Please do not misunderstand: I do not mean to exculpate the victimizers because, after all, the victims volunteered for it. Nor do I mean to depreciate the magnitude of the crime or the tragedy. Nonetheless, their sacrifice was not in vain. Because all acts of violence leave their imprint in the perpetrator, the perpetrators ultimately will suffer violence equal to that they have inflicted. Perhaps that is why Jesus, facing his tormentors, said, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." He understood what they were in for, the oceans of remorse they would need to traverse before arriving at peace. Etymologically, remorse means to bite back; Jesus saw that what they did to him, they were doing to themselves. Studies of soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder find that the most seriously disturbed are not those who have witnessed or suffered violence, but those who committed it. "Soldiers who were in low-intensity battles but had killed someone suffered higher rates of PTSD than soldiers who experienced high-intensity battles but did not kill anyone."ii As researcher Rachel MacNair puts it, "Despite all the killing we've done, the human mind is not designed to kill. Portions of us get sick when we kill. Killing is against our nature."iii Enormous forces must be applied to render a human being into a killer, someone who could cut down forests, tear up land, or kill innocent people. To do the things we do requires that we be removed from our natural-born state of wholeness, enchantment, connectedness, and biophilia. To commit the heinous violence of our culture, even in its muted, indirect forms such as consumerism, we must first be mangled ourselves. We perpetrators are the end products of a spirit-wrecking machine thousands of years in the making, that has battered and wounded us almost beyond recognition. Our healing happens through our victims, just as my friend's healing required that he destroy and mourn the burdock plant. Our Separation, our ruined wholeness, our Fallen state leads inevitably to acts of violence. Violence is a symptom of a wounded spirit. And the medicine for this disease is precisely the consequences of that violence. The process of acknowledging and mourning what we have done is itself healing. To simply withhold opportunities for violence from a wounded person is not a sustainable solution. Something has to bring it to the surface, and something eventually will. Does this mean that I can excuse myself from all the hurt I've caused in my life, thinking, "Well, my wound drove me to it, and I needed to do that to recover"? No. The healing comes only through the realization, "My God, what have I done?" It is the remorse that is healing. On a cultural level, then, it is healing for us to face up to the crimes of our civilization, the dirty secrets of our past. Living in denial of the bitter facts only perpetuates more violence and prolongs our state of separation and suffering. The truth is coming to light now, as we acknowledge what we have done to our planet, its cultures and people. This is another sign that the Age of Reunion is nigh. Yes, many segments of our society are still in denial, choosing to live with the imprints of the wounds they have inflicted upon the world, not knowing that world and self, I and thou, are not really separate and that no amount of control can keep the consequences eventually seeking out the perpetrator. The denial cannot last forever. The continuing pain of the festering wounds, which cannot be hidden forever, will eventually make the truth impossible to ignore or deny. Once upon a time the Great Spirit spoke to the world. The Great Spirit said, "The world is sick. Millions of people have separated themselves off from life, and their suffering grows with each passing year. Soon they will utterly destroy themselves and all that is good. They need medicine, but I warn you, most of the medicine they take they will destroy most horribly. Who is ready to be the medicine?" And the Spirits of the Tribes said, "We are ready." And the spirits of the forests said, "We are ready." The spirits of the frogs said, "We are ready." The Earth herself said, "I am ready." Martin Prechtel once said, "The redwoods are perfectly happy to go extinct." I know another man who described a long conversation he had with redwoods under the influence of LSD. The redwoods told him they were sad for the people chopping them down, and hoped they would stop doing that before they destroyed themselves. The redwoods know the enormous, inescapable price to be paid for destroying such a magnificent being for the sake of mere money. All the life and beauty that has been destroyed, cut down, paved over, exterminated, raped, imprisoned, and enslaved has given the world a great gift. I sometimes ponder the Trail of Tears, so named not for the tears of the Cherokee, for there were none, but for the tears of the crowds of whites that gathered to watch them pass dignified and unbroken. That image is burned indelibly onto the national psyche, and it will never let us rest until we have healed our own separation, softened the callousing of the soul that enabled us to commit such a crime. Nations and cultures, not just individuals, bear the self-inflicted wounds of their collective crimes; karma is not just an individual phenomenon. National salvation will only come when we face up to the ugliness of our own past and feel the mirror image of the pain of every slave lashed, every man lynched, every child humiliated. One way or another, we must weep for all of this. The suffering of Separation's victims is never in vain. From separation comes violence, which then reverberates in the soul of the perpetrator to form the seed of the separation's healing. I hope this is of some consolation to those of you who are among the victims (and that is all of us; we are all among the victims and perpetrators both). Usually the eventual healing and redemption is invisible to us; part of the suffering, in fact, is that it seems purposeless. The victims too experience a complete alienation, a loneliness intrinsic to all suffering. The image comes to mind of Christ on the cross: "Father, why hast thou foresaken me?" In this archetypal story, the Redeemer experiences the same extreme of separation from God—separation, that is, from all that we are and can be—that drove his tormentors. Do not think that the redwood, the burdock, the murdered, enslaved, and ruined, go without agony. Let us not underestimate the suffering of this world. Each of them partakes in Christ, making the ultimate sacrifice so that we might become whole. And you, dear reader, are no exception. Love and appreciate yourself as a noble being, born into this vale of tears for a sacred purpose. None of your hurts were in vain. One way or another, we must weep for all this. What goes for the crimes of humanity, nations, and cultures goes as well for us individually. Even as we appreciate our nobility and tend gently to our wounds, so also must we lament the violence, the scarring, the ruin of the Other that has sprung from our separation, if ever we are to become whole. The Boddhisatva Path, to remain in samsara until all beings are free, is more than a noble sacrifice—it is an organic necessity. The full integration of the pain from the life of separation is what impels us back toward wholeness. One way or another, the pain will be felt. We can either wait for it to come to us, like an addict determined to get a fix at any cost, or we can go to it. Perhaps if we can see the futility of control, the futility of perpetually postponing the consequences, then we will have the courage to face them. It is said that no addict truly enters recovery until he or she hits bottom; however, it is equally true that "bottom" is different from person to person. At some point the addict decides no longer to evade the pain of a shattered life, wrecked family, sick body, or ruined career. He feels the accumulated agony, mourns what is lost, tries to make amends. Sometimes he succeeds in doing so before all is lost, before all friendship, all wealth, all health has been converted into money for the fix. Perhaps we humans will do so as well, and begin making amends to the world we are ruining before all beauty, all goodness, all wealth, all life is consumed. -- From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 20:33:02 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0812112203g5604dcecke76841b5daa0e32f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <674118.94741.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir   Perhaps I should have put it differently and said that "Hussain is one of the most important personages for Shias and carries a significance in Shia Islamic annals much greater than in the Sunni ones"   Consequently it would be quite a comedown for the Sunni control over Hazratbal to be told that the "Hair Relic" is of Hussain and not Mohammed. The Shias would want 'control' over it.     Of course you know that 'Ashura' (10th day of the month Muharram when Hussain was killed in Karbala) carries distinctly separate significance for the Shias and Sunnis. That in no small means is because of the separate significance Hussain himself carries for the Shias and the Sunnis.   You would also know about the controversies surrounding the comments of Dr Zakir Naik and Dr Israr Ahmed about Yazid and Ali. Would you add the 2 to your "jihadist / extremist" list?   The divide between the Shias and Sunnis runs much deeper than Hussain. With Ali at the fonthead of that divide, would you argue over (subsequent to various struggles over who should be the Khalifa) the divide getting concretised in the Battle of Karbala between Yazid and Hussain and Hussain's death?   If that is so, and with Yazid (alongwith Muaviyah sworn enemy of Hussain's father Ali) as Sunni and Hussain as Shian-e-Ali how could one possibly conclude that Hussain is not firmly on tha Shia side of the Sunni/Shia divide?   Perhaps you know better.   I totally agree with you that (perhaps) most Muslims are in the 'consensual middle' and that is how it should be.   Since the thread started over the "Hair Relic", it was not farfetched to look at the passions any such controversy would evoke from the 'extreme positions'.   Wish you would participate oftener. I have the selfish motive of wanting to get educated.   Take care   Kshmendra         On Fri, 12/12/08, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM Dear Kashmendra, I dont know the the history of the Hazratbal hair. but you are overstating or even misstating the shia sunni divide on the question of Hussain. Most sunnis revere Hussain and his fight to death against Yazid son of Muawiya. During the Muharram month/s you will hear Sunni sermons eulogizing the sacrifice and mourning the deaths of the prophet's family and friends. The account of the events by Zainul abedin (the next Imam, and Hussain's son) of the events is read as a text in sunni religious seminaries. Sunnis may also participate with Taziyas and attend 'Shia' Majalis, or just watch them on TV etc. They may or may not accord the same level of reverence to karbala as shias, some of whom also go overboard with the case. That said, there are certain sunni sub-sects, among them particularly the ahle Hadith (aka wahhabi), and certain historical naqshbandis (mujaddid alf saani) who may consider shias heretics, kaafirs etc, virtually on par with deniers such as 'hindus'. I dont think this strain is the most common although occasionally one runs into them - most are in the consensual middle. Not surprisingly this strain (the tendency you have described) is around in jihadist / extremist outfits. best On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Interesting comment by Nonica Dutt the "Hussaini Brahmin" has been quoted by Intizar Hussain in his article. She says:   """"""" We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans. """""   This would totally shake up the edifice of the  'organised sectarian religious divides' amongst the Muslims of Kashmir and especially lead to unimaginable conflict between the Sunnis and Shias.   The Muslims of Kashmir have their faith firmly invested in the belief that the 'ensconced hair' in the Hazratbal 'shrine' is from (the beard or head) of Mohammed the Last Prophet for Muslims. For someone to suggest that the 'hair' is of Imam Hussain would be considered sacrilegious.Blasphemous perhaps.   Also that Hazratbal as an institution is under Sunni control. Imam Husaain is not the most favourite of persons for the Sunnis even if he was the grandson of Mohammed (through his daughter Fatima and Ali the Fourth Khalifa).   Ali (the father of Hussain) is considered by Shias as the First Imam and rightful inheritor of Mohammed's worldly empire. They consider the first three Khalifas to be usurpers who stole from Ali his right of being the First Khalifa.   Some ideological elements amongst Shias have even a more extreme viewpoint about what Ali's position in Islam should be (in comparison to Mohammed).      The Battle of Karbala where Hussain was killed is a significant happening in the divide between Shias and Sunnis with Hussain on  the opposite side of the allegiances for the Muaviyah and Yazeed. The Battle of Karbala (arguably) concretised the separation between the Sunni and Shia sects   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar wrote: From: prabhat kumar Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 5:10 PM ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ali Usman Qasmi Date: 2008/12/10 Subject: Re: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: prabhat kumar , Shoumen Thanks for the link. Following is an article by Intizar Hussain, the best known Urdu novelist of our times. I came to know about the Hussaini Brahmins from his article. COLUMN: Brahmans in Karbala By Intizar Husain LITERARY NOTES The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. WITH the arrival of Muharram this year, I was reminded of an encounter I had with an unusual, intelligent girl in Delhi who asserted that she was a Husaini Brahman. I recall referring to Prem Chand's play 'Karbala' in one of my addresses, which was based on a legend. The legend was about a group of eight Hindu brothers who had somehow reached Karbala determined to die fighting for the cause that Imam Husain stood for. They fought bravely and sacrificed their lives in devotion to Imam Husain. It was in this context that I was talking about Husaini Brahmans, who seemed to have vanished from the social scene in India. All of a sudden, a girl from among the audience stood up and challenged my statement. She said, 'Here I am before you. My name is Nonica Dutt. I belong to a Husaini Brahman family.' It was clearly a pleasant surprise for me, something like discovering a rare bird while walking through a jungle. The girl promised me an exclusive meeting to enlighten me with interesting information about the Husaini Brahmanian background of her family. But the proposed meeting kept on being postponed for one reason or the other. Finally, on the last day of my stay in Delhi, I received a call from her. 'Let us meet now,' she said 'But I have no evening to spare for you. Today is the last day of my stay in your city,' I said. 'But I am already in the lounge and I must meet you,' she said. So we finally had a meeting. She entered my room with two large volumes under her arm. I proposed a detailed sitting on my next visit, which was due after a month or so. 'But in the coming months, I will not be in Delhi. I am moving to Germany and will spend four months at the Humboldt University.' Nonica Dutt taught history at Jawahar Lal University and had been honoured with a fellowship from the Humboldt University. Hence she was on her way to Germany. 'I,' she said, 'told my mother about your comments regarding Husaini Brahamans and how I introduced myself as one. To that she said, did you tell him that we don't perform the rituals the Brahmans are obliged to perform. That we don't go to the temples?' 'Should I presume from this,' I asked, 'that you have turned Muslim.' 'No, we are not Muslims,' she exclaimed. 'Then what are you?' I inquired. 'We are Husaini Brahmans,' she said with a certain sense of pride and added, 'Now, I will tell you about a sign each and every Husaini Brahman carries with him/her. On his/her throat s/he bears a line of cutting, which is indicative of the fact that s/he is the descendant of those Brahmans whose throats were cut in the battle of Karbala.' Then she told me about the ritual carried out on the birth of every child in her family. She said, 'Among Brahmans, after child birth, the ritual of Moondan is performed. In our family this ritual is performed in the name of Imam Husain.' She then went on to tell me the historical facts. 'I will now tell you about the history of our martyred forefathers.' Pointing to the two books placed on the table she said, 'our entire history is conserved within these two books. When needed, I will quote from them.' Considering their worn out and pale pages, the books, which were written in English, seemed to be centuries old. The history of Husaini Brahmans, as told by Nonica Dutt, begins with ten Brahmans going to Karbala with the determination to die fighting for Imam Husain. Among them were Rahib Dutt and his seven sons who fought bravely and resolutely. With the blessings of Imam Husain they met their death in a heroic way. Rahib Dutt was the lone survivor of the battle. From Karbala he escaped to Kufa, where he stayed for some time. It is said that Rahib had the privilege of meeting the members of the Imam's family after the massacre. He introduced himself by saying, 'I am a Brahman from Hindustan.' The reply came, 'Now you are Husaini Brahman. We will always remember you.' Rahib went from Kufa to Afghanistan, and from there came back to India where he stayed for a few days in Nankana. Nonica paused for a while and then spoke, 'In the Sialkot district there is a town known as Viran Vatan. That place is our ancestral home. We are the descendants of Rahib Dutt. He had brought with him a hair of Imam Husain, which is ensconced in the Hazratbal shrine in Kashmir. She then recited a few couplets from the book she had brought along with her, in which these incidents have been recorded. 'These couplets,' she said, 'are very popular among the Husaini Brahmans.' Nonica shut the book and said 'Let me inform you that Sunil Dutt was also a Husaini Brahman. And the father of Nargis too was a Husaini Brahman.' She got up saying 'Now I must go.' 'I think,' I said, 'after you return from Germany, I should make a point to come to Delhi so that you can introduce me to your father. I will perhaps be able to know much more about your ancestors from him.' She said goodbye and left hurriedly. I had been under the impression that the story of the eight Brahmins was just a legend. But Nonica firmly believed that it is a historical fact. And it is the belief of Nonica and her community that really counts. For them the event is a reality. --- On *Wed, 12/10/08, prabhat kumar * wrote: From: prabhat kumar Subject: Hussaini/ Dutt Brahmins To: "Ali Usman Qasmi" , "soumen mukherjee" < soumenm.2 at gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 4:21 PM I found something coincidentally on Hussaini-Dutt Brahmins in reader list of SARAI, CSDS!! Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0600 From: "Naeem Mohaiemen" Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchira Paul: When Hindus Mourned Muslim Martyr To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Message-ID:       Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 December 08, 2008 When Hindus mourned a Muslim martyr Ruchira Paul http://accidentalblogger.typepad.com/accidental_blogger/2008/12/when-hindus-mourned-a-muslim-martyr.html Today or tomorrow, depending on the sighting of the moon, is Eid al-Adha, a day of celebration for Muslims worldwide. This year, December is also the month of Muharram, a religious event of lament and mourning observed by the Shia Muslim sect. I recently finished reading The Girl From Foreign by American documentary film maker Sadia Shepard which I had previewed here a few months ago. Shepard's journey in search of her Indian born Jewish/ Muslim grandmother's roots crisscrosses through western India and the Pakistani city of Karachi. It is a fascinating story which I plan to describe at a later date. Today however, I wish to bring up a little known fragment of Indian history that had laid buried in my memory for decades and which an anecdote in Shepard's book helped shake loose. The student population of my school in New Delhi was composed of girls from practically every part of India belonging to several different linguistic groups and religions. Nearly fifty percent of the Punjabi and Bengali students came from families who had lost their ancestral homes in the partition of India in 1947, my own being among them. In middle school, a class mate whose folks had moved to India from the Pakistani city of Lahore, once casually commented that her father's family used to observe Muharram in their hometown before the partition. At the time I didn't think much of what my friend had said. We were young and many of us had heard interesting pre-partition tales from our parents. It is only now, on thinking back, that her story acquires a special meaning and given the subsequent deterioration in Hindu-Muslim relations in general and between India and Pakistan in particular, also a certain amount of poignancy. You see, the remarkable thing about my friend's Muharram story was that she was not a Muslim, but a Hindu Brahmin. My class mate belonged to the Punjabi community of Dutts, in more communally harmonious times also known as the Hussaini Brahmins. They, along with their Shia Muslim friends and neighbors, used to commemorate and grieve the deaths of Imam Hussain and his disciples in the bloody battle of Karbala during the 7th century power struggle among early Muslims. Of the Dutts was said the following: Wah Dutt Sultan, Hindu ka Dharam Musalman ka Iman, Wah Dutt Sultan Adha Hindu Adha Musalman [Oh, Dutt the king, follows the religion of the Hindu And the faith of the Muslim. Oh, Dutt the king, He is half Hindu, half Muslim.] I do not bring up my friend's story in any specially sentimental way. Looking back on her simply told tale with the political events of today as the backdrop, evokes more wonder than sorrow.  I was born a few years after the bloody partition of India. The political and psychological wounds of that cataclysmic event were raw on both sides of the divide during my childhood. Yet amazingly enough, there probably was more mutual understanding between the two battling communities then than there is today. After decades of mistrust and alienation, the line in the sand that was drawn across Hindu and Muslim identities around 1947, has now hardened and appears set in concrete. As one of the linked articles explains in its somewhat flowery text: The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant. No longer, it seems, can an ambiguous, yet comfortable, liminality be sustained, fuzzy communal identities giving way under the relentless pressure to conform to the logic of neatly demarcated 'Hindu' and 'Muslim' communities. And so, these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same time. I am not a starry eyed optimist. I harbor no illusions that the complicated politics of the Indian subcontinent are going to be solved simply by harping on the feel-good history of shared culture - of food, music, language, ethnicities and sometimes even religious celebrations. Nonetheless, those who have turned the region into a powder keg of hostilities and have fueled communal fires with lies and revisionist history, need to be reminded perhaps, that if the present mayhem is always the consequence of past injustices, there are also many examples of peaceful co-existence that could serve as the model for reconciliation between south Asian Muslims and Hindus. Eid Mubarak  to our Muslim readers and to any one else who may wish to rejoice with their Muslim friends on this day. ------------------------------ -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 21:01:08 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:31:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <130450.26667.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   You are requested that you should not misquote. I did not call you a dimwit.   I said you cannot be a dimwit and that is why I saw deviousness in your seeking to propagate a divide by talking about Muslims as being separate from "Indian Society".   If want to go the sympathy seeking route of "Poor Me, he suggested I am a dimwit", that is your choice.   I would rather you realise that you should not have mentioned Muslims as being separate from "Indian Society". Unless you were deliberately being devious and want to instigate Indian Muslims. You have not commented on that.   You have also not commented on your Zero-Sum proposal of "If JUD then Saffronites too".   I apologise if you did not suggest / propagate any conspiracy theory about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. I vaguely remember a posting from you questioning if the "terrorists" were Muslims and something about their stocking alcohol. Maybe I misinterpreted. Apologies.   Kshmendra   PS: Incidentally, I quite liked the "Tasveerghar" work. Also I thoroughly enjoyed reading your recently posted comments on Iqbal.     --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:23 PM Dear Kshmendra Yes I am a dimwit (if that helps your ego), but I am not a troublemaker. I didn't suggest any conspiracy theory about Mumbai. If I have to repeat it again and again that "I am against terrorism and I cry for Mumbai victims as much as anyone" then I think anyone who doesn't read my mail properly must be equally dimwit. J On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > Regarding the question at the end of your post;Yes you are wrong and you are > a troublemaker. > > In my eyes, your formulations and propagations make you suspect of devious > intentions meant to instigate Indian Muslims. You are their enemy and not > their friend. That is evidenced by your postings on this List. > > You are one of those people I was refering to when I wrote "some on this > List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about > the Mumbai Terror Attacks." > > The divides that you seek to create become obvious in these words of yours > "the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at the most > ordinary levels." You cannot be quite such a dimwit to not know that "Indian > Society" includes "Indian Muslims". > > Your recent convoluted proposal has been "If Pakistan bans JuD, we should > demand banning of saffron outfits" > > What kind of a Zero-Sum game did you propose? Conversely your suggestion > reads "If Pakistan DOES NOT ban JUD, we SHOULD NOT demand banning of saffron > outfits" > > What does our banning or not banning in India of any 'outfit' have to do > with what Pakistan does or does not do? > > Kshmendra > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in > DAWN > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 5:50 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that Muslim > terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are > "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you have > heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by > madarsa students and scholars for last few years. > > As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai > attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just > because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now > shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be > shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media > doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing > against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell > someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they > look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am > I wrong? > > Javed > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply > not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians > also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre > conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. >> >> Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the > 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions > that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical > outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the > attacks > on us" >> >> One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been > that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. >> >> But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred > to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and > extricated > cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by > Indians of all hues. >> >> The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the > Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against > the > convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They > need > support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile > argumentation > that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will > do > harm to the Muslims and will do no good >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> EXTRACTS: >> >> - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate > conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity > in > Mumbai. >> >> - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and > are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is > as > it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality > shifts > according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective > truth. >> >> - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror > networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. >> >> - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not > willing to face the truth. >> >> - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created > ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status > without doing something to change it. >> >> - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of > groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >> >> - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and > groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We > have > seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in > jail > or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >> >> - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of > religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this > environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is > perfectly > acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in > the > name of Islam. >> >> >> >> >> "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain >> DAWN >> 13th Dec 2008 >> >> IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai > attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. >> >> >> So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate > conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity > in > Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of > this > newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief > proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a > three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent > in > our army. >> >> >> It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are > seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as > it > seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from > behind > the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this > parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your > point > of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. >> >> >> Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails > regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been > attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by > other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very > strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. >> >> >> I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the > terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. > And > while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our > borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when > their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that > the > recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers > have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. > Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus > absolving me of the duty to respond. >> >> >> Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are > simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not > demand > the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in > the > first place. >> >> >> However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones > given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most > straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that > the > 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy > who > said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of > Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the > British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was > going > to marry a Muslim. >> >> >> Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with > lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for > the > global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this > terror > campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if > the > leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is > the > rest of the world supposed to do? >> >> >> In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and > pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as > President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. > This > is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we > have > created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim > status without doing something to change it. >> >> >> Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in > Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find > all > kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to > Iraq > to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response > to > western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir > is > used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >> >> >> What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal > for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT > have > furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? > The > fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians > does > not gain any cause any support. >> >> >> The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and > groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We > have > seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in > jail > or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >> >> >> One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since > Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has > come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of > Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute > religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. >> >> >> It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless > space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed > border > with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, > and > you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this > lethal > cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating > gainful > employment for millions of young Pakistanis. >> >> >> But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants > Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. > However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve > needed > to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking > strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. >> >> >> And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our > intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their > proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological > links > with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change > overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. >> >> >> irfan.husain at gmail.com >> http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 21:15:00 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:45:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <623798.17190.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Whoever this idiot Vidya is, such a reaction is not surprising.   I hope you will now understand why I was questioning your proposing of the Zero-Sum Gameplan of "If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits".   We in India must must Ban / Neutralise the operations of whoever we must for the sake of India, irrespective of what Pakistan does or does not do.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits To: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:16 PM This mail from some Vidya is very enlightening. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vidya Date: Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD,we should demand banning of saffron outfits To: Javed Javed. You stink of communal mindset. You thought that when these jihadi groups are being banned why not these bastard who fight for hindu cause be banned. If you think of the problem from Hindu-Musllim communal angle you may be right. But from secular and sensible angle doesn't show any link between the two. There are some groups which are fighting on Indian territory for more space on Indian territory. But These Hindu outfits never sent groups to your beloved Pakistan to kill your family members (Muslims). But your beloved family members came to India and they keep coming to India to kill Indians, for them Indians means Hindus. If you live in India or your family members are here, they are all Hindus. If you are a true Muslaman you should be in Pakistan, you may not be accepted with open hands as Mujahirs were not. But suffer a bit for the cause of Islam. So there you are. Either you tell Pakistan to merge with India and then let the fight between these groups go on. Or ban all of these groups, then this terrorism spread by the groups sympathized by you will not be equal to international terrorism. It will be the responsibility of this country to control all the elements. Right now it is international terrorism in which, these groups with whom you sympathize, are indulging in. India needs to ban many groups, There are some Muslim communal groups too which were missing from your suggested list of groups that should be banned. So you are communal and no better than these groups you want to ban. You should be banned as well. But I do sympathize with your frustration that these kafirs spread all over the world, including in Pakistan, are hampering the path of Jihad, your cherrished pan-islamic world is being turned in to a distant dream. We qafirs will go to hell where Allah will screw us badly. And then the groups you sympathize with will all rejoyce in his lap. Till then, long live secularism. Let me say again, this is not a hindu-muslim issue. It is a geopolitical issue. India never told Pakistan to ban the groups which restrict themselves to Pakistan in fomenting hatred against Shia Muslims. India never told Pakistan to ban groups which are fighting with in your sacred land (pak sthan) India never told Pakistan to ban groups which foment hatred against minorities with in their territory, it is the your Pakistan government that needs to do something for it. But when they come here to India, and kill indiscriminately then the problem arises. Why not Javed, you and other people who think like you, go to the capital of whatever country you are living in, demand with your government to lift sanctions from Islami jihadi groups because India has not banned the Hindu groups, they can never ban all of these groups even if they so badly want that, some of the groups are political parties which our judiciary will protect. And even if shiv sena is banned, BJP will never be, so only option should be to start an armed uprising against your government, establish another Lashkar-e-Javed group. Good luck. I hope you will be able to watch the spectacle when Allah will screw me. Being a woman, it is my double fault, I will be screwed multiple times. You see, that is why I don't want to die, to keep away from being screwed away as much as possible. There is no doubt in my mind that many others also want to avoid being screwed up for as long as possible. You can understand, I don't have time to perform namaz 5 times. I like bollywood music too. I want women to get educated in this allahless land. So I want these groups be banned. Sorry Javed, I am a qafir, I cannot convert and many are suffering my fate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javed" To: "Aditya Raj Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] If Pakistan bans JuD,we should demand banning of saffron outfits > Dear Aditya > I never claimed I am on the right path (whatever that is), but you > did. So that's fine. I have no intention of reforming you either. Let > me clarify that I am in no way trying to defend what you call the > "Islamic terrorism", and I am as much pained by the death of innocent > people in Mumbai as you are. As an Indian with a Muslim name, I refuse > to accept if Pakistanis say they want to avenge the massacre of the > Indian Muslims (I think we can deal with our struggles our won way in > this country - we don't want Pak sympathy). But why I brought the > subject of banning the saffron outfits (in response to the JuD news) > because I think it is connected with the larger "war on terror". > > Once again, I don't want to start the debate of "who began it all" but > the point is that the terrorist supposedly trained in Pakistan says > they were shown videos of Muslim massacre in Gujarat and hate-speeches > of Modi to incite the hatred against India and Hindus. I know that > this is a standard practice on both sides of the border. RSS shakhas > and Bajrang Dal camps also show disturbing images of the "deeds done > by Muslims" to sow the hatred in their cadre. It is a reciprocal game, > a vicious circle that is going on in South Asia for many decades, > resulting in this terrible situation. If we want to keep it unchanged, > then fine, we should expect more terror attacks (God forbid). But, if > we are serious about eradicating terror in the region, tighter > security and intelligence will certainly play a big role, but a bigger > difference can be made if we reduce the reasons for hatred in every > walk of life. That is why it is important to root out the different > institutions of hatred on both sides of the border. That is the point > I am trying to make. A mere jingoism and patriotism will not bring a > long-term solution. I hope you understand. I am sure that the > reduction of hate-propaganda between the 2 countries and 2 communities > could probably even help the Kashmiri Pandits to rehabilitate (which I > would very much like). > > Javed > > > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: >> >> Dear Javed, >> >> Everyone thinks that he/she is on the right path. You and me are no >> different. Hope you agree to this. My concern of mentioning it was only to >> tell you that two different case studies cannot be clubbed together at such >> an urgent and important juncture where our county is facing Terror. I never >> said everyone else is mistaken, only you to a little degree, Sir. I won't >> reform everyone, never did I mention it neither do I intend to. I'll only >> place my view and a just argument wherever necessary. >> >> We can debate, discuss and come to your 'Saffron' groups at a later stage >> when our country is done with handling terrorism from across the border. >> Isn't that logic ? >> >> In my last e-mail, I had just quoted an example on terrorism in Kashmir, >> which has originated from the same Pakistan region which has also been >> feeding terrorists responsible for Mumbai Attacks. We should have no doubt >> in our minds that Mumbai carnage is the manifestation of the continued >> onslaught by the pan Islamists against secular India. >> >> Now, more than me, I suppose you are deviating this topic, for very obvious >> reasons. I won't comment much on the second part of your e-mail. You have >> problems with Kashmiri Hindus on this forum now, just because they speak >> openly against 'Islamic Terrorism' and give that very important 'other >> viewpoint' which has been missing in forums such as these and obviously >> elsewhere or maybe is deliberately kept out of the page. >> >> You have taken it very much further Javed. In contrary I see a ray in you >> which is defending 'Islamic Terror' outfits such as JuD and LeT etc. Why >> bring in so called Saffron Outfits' here in the discussion out of nowhere? >> And, this is just always, maybe not by you, but someone else here. >> >> Obviously, there can be no similarity between right and the left, BJP and >> the CPI, and here SFI, AISA and 'Saffron Outfits'. I didn't mention those >> ultra radical communist agencies because they have some connection. But, >> even they are responsible for many incidents in the recent past which have >> been unfortunate and against humanity. You are wise enough to guess and >> understand. >> >> Lastly, My initial response to your 'reactionary' e-mail was to guide you to >> the root cause of terrorism in the region. We all know it started with cross >> border terrorism in Kashmir and JKLF was one strong killer group which >> slaughtered hundreds openly, and now those terrorists are like state guests. >> Now, that attacks and bombs go off like 'Diwali Pattaks' anywhere and >> everywhere here in India, Government is 'thinking' of taking some strong >> action or maybe tough laws. >> >> I hope I've made in this mail myself understood to the core. I'm ready to >> debate further, but lets mve forward. No point sticking to the same old >> lines again and again. >> >> Thanks >> >> . >> >> On 12/13/08, Javed wrote: >>> >>> Dear Aditya >>> So, you are the only one on the right path, and everyone else is at >>> mistake, and you won't sit quiet until you reform everyone. Good to >>> know. >>> By the way, you ask me not to bring un-related issues on the same >>> page. But since I have been seeing your mails on Sarai list, I see >>> that whatever is topic, you (and your friend KPs) always stretch it to >>> the problems of Kashmiri pundits. If we are talking of communalism in >>> UP or Gujarat, you shout: why isn't no one talking of the plight of >>> KPs. When we are talking of farmers committing suicides, you ask, why >>> is not on concerned about KPs, and so on. So, it is you who bring >>> unrelated issues together. In this case itself, when I mentioned >>> banning saffron extremists, you brought in SFI and AISA, although I >>> haven't understood what is the connection. I gave you that list of >>> dates (of origin of those organizations) only as a reaction to your >>> mail about "initators". >>> >>> J >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >>> wrote: >>> > Dear Javed, >>> > >>> > Your initial e-mail with a comment attached to a news item was nothing >>> but >>> > of course a reaction to it. Now, I don't know why you bring in our >>> internal >>> > problems here in India (if at all they are ) when we are discussing > about >>> > Terrorism originating from Pakistan. One cannot take both these things > in >>> > the same wave-length and things need not be mentioned on same page. >>> > >>> > Surely, its futile discussing who the 'initiator' is. But, you cannot >>> just >>> > rubbish it without an argument. >>> > >>> > Also, if not 'initiators' of Terrorism; but surely the modern origin > of >>> > Terrorism is from Pakistan (and PoK) and needs to be fully eliminated, >>> not >>> > alone through sanctions, banning and strong tough laws but as well >>> physical >>> > exercise if needed. Its high time. We've suffered enough from them. >>> Pakistan >>> > cannot get away with it merely through PR exercise of 'House > Arresting' >>> few >>> > master Terrorists only to be released later and treated as state > guests. >>> > >>> > Well, it isn't me who says Islam is responsible for this bloody > tirade. >>> It >>> > is LeT, JuD and other such 'Islamic Fanatic' groups which claim to do >>> this >>> > as messengers of Allah. Am I wrong ? I'm as well a victim of this > crazy >>> > blind Jihad. >>> > >>> > Lets not deviate when our country is facing such a serious terrorist >>> threat. >>> > Lets be united again this menace of Terrorism. >>> > >>> > I'm no one to give you befitting reply; but surely would always > correct >>> your >>> > mistakes, and take you on the right path, till I can and I know. Yes, > we >>> > need to be positive, neutral and fight unitedly. But this doesn't mean > we >>> > yet again tolerate and forget this 'Jihad' business launched by some >>> > crackpots. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Aditya Raj Kaul >>> > >>> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Javed wrote: >>> > >>> >> Dear Aditya and Srirang Jha >>> >> My original message was not in reaction to the Pakistanis efforts to >>> >> ban JuD. I think the troublemakers any where should be banned >>> >> (whichever religion they belong to). I didn't start the "initiators" >>> >> debate. It is futile discussing who is the "first" initiator. You >> will >>> >> go on and on and will never be able to decide who threw the first >>> >> stone. People usually claim that it is Islam which created all the >>> >> trouble in the world - as if the world was a happy, peaceful and rosy >>> >> place before Islam. I refuse to accept that any religion should be >>> >> used to claim as the real cause of all trouble. >>> >> >>> >> So, let us try to stop this "befitting reply" culture among >> ourselves, >>> >> and try to be very practical. Let us look at the history of each >> group >>> >> that we are discussing, and formulate a criteria for banning them. I >>> >> am not trying to defend any group or individual - but we have to be >>> >> honest and just in this case. >>> >> >>> >> Javed >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Dear Srirang, >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks. Just to correct you, what we see today is Íslamic >> > Terrorism' >>> >> which >>> >> > is ultra extremist and what we see as a reaction to this >> > provocation >>> in >>> >> > India can't be clubbed with them. Even though they are marginally >>> >> extremist. >>> >> > >>> >> > Its important to eliminate the origin of global Islamic Terrorism >> > in >>> >> > Pakistan. Its high time now atleast. >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks >>> >> > Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:33 PM, srirang jha >> > >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> Javed's suggestion is imbued with his reactionary mindset that >> >> tries >>> to >>> >> >> justify action against Hindu extremist organizations only because >>> action >>> >> is >>> >> >> being taken against the Muslim extremist outfit in Pakistan. I >> >> wish >>> >> Javed >>> >> >> could think a little more objective. Ban on all the extremist >>> >> organizations >>> >> >> should be imposed irrespective of a precedent or any precondition. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Anyway, response of Aditya Raj Kaul to Javed's 'reaction' is >>> befitting. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Srirang Jha >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul < >>> >> >> kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> Yes, why not ? But, To begin with: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> 1) Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) >>> >> >>> 2) Hurriyat Conference >>> >> >>> 3) Tehreek-e-Hurriyat >>> >> >>> 4) Student Federation of India (SFI) >>> >> >>> 5) All India Students Association (AISA) >>> >> >>> 6) CPI >>> >> >>> ..................there are many more. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Ban the initiators first, and then those who react to constant >>> >> >>> provocation. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Anybody initiating this movement ? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I'm all ears.. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Thanks >>> >> >>> Aditya Raj Kaul >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 12/11/08, Javed wrote: >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > There are reports that Pakistan govt. is arresting many clerics >>> and >>> >> >>> > banning extremist organizations (responsible for Mumbai >> >>> > terror). I >>> >> >>> > think it is high time we demand a ban on our own home-grown >> >>> > terror >>> >> >>> > outfits like Abhinav Bharat, VHP, MNS, BD, RSS and so on. A >>> movement >>> >> >>> > should start for this from this very platform. What do you say? >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Pakistan to ban Jamaat-ud-Dawa: Gilani >>> >> >>> > 11 Dec 2008, 1912 hrs IST, AGENCIES >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will fulfil its obligations under a UN >>> Security >>> >> >>> > Council statement targeting four members of Lashkar-e-Taiba and >>> >> >>> > charity >>> >> >>> > Jamaat-ud-Dawa linked to the banned Islamist group, the >> >>> > government >>> >> >>> > said on Thursday. ( Watch ) >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > The statement, which gave no further details, came after the UN >>> >> >>> > Security Council sanctions committee targeted four members of >> >>> > the >>> >> >>> > group blamed for the Mumbai attacks, and a charity widely >> >>> > viewed >>> as >>> >> >>> > its political arm, for an assets freeze and other sanctions. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > "Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that Pakistan >> >>> > has >>> >> >>> > taken note of the designation of certain individuals and >> >>> > entities >>> by >>> >> >>> > the UN under 1267 resolution of the UN Security Council and >> >>> > would >>> >> >>> > fulfil its international obligations," a government statement >>> said. >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >>> > with >>> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> >>> > List archive: >> >>> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> _________________________________________ >>> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> >>> >> > _________________________________________ >>> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 21:29:10 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:29:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: <130450.26667.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <130450.26667.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kshmendra Let me re-phrase my sentence for your convinience: instead of saying Indian society, what I meant was: "The media doesn't reflect the deep bias some among Hindu society has been nurturing against Muslims". Does that make it sound better. And when I posted the news about terrorists having purchased liquor before attacking in Mumbai, I was asking what sort of Muslim terrorists were they if they enjoyed alcohol. I maybe wrong, but one can suppose that such kind of terrorist training (especially in places like Pakistan/Afghanistan) must involve strict adherence to Islamic laws, which means not touching alcohol. If they are promised paradise in return of such deeds (which is why agree to become suicide-squads), there is no way they should touch alcohol. So, I was only wondering what sort of Muslims were they? Javed On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > You are requested that you should not misquote. I did not call you a dimwit. > > I said you cannot be a dimwit and that is why I saw deviousness in your > seeking to propagate a divide by talking about Muslims as being separate > from "Indian Society". > > If want to go the sympathy seeking route of "Poor Me, he suggested I am a > dimwit", that is your choice. > > I would rather you realise that you should not have mentioned Muslims as > being separate from "Indian Society". Unless you were deliberately being > devious and want to instigate Indian Muslims. You have not commented on > that. > > You have also not commented on your Zero-Sum proposal of "If JUD then > Saffronites too". > > I apologise if you did not suggest / propagate any conspiracy theory about > the Mumbai Terror Attacks. I vaguely remember a posting from you questioning > if the "terrorists" were Muslims and something about their stocking alcohol. > Maybe I misinterpreted. Apologies. > > Kshmendra > > PS: Incidentally, I quite liked the "Tasveerghar" work. Also I > thoroughly enjoyed reading your recently posted comments on Iqbal. > > > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in > DAWN > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:23 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > Yes I am a dimwit (if that helps your ego), but I am not a > troublemaker. I didn't suggest any conspiracy theory about Mumbai. If > I have to repeat it again and again that "I am against terrorism and I > cry for Mumbai victims as much as anyone" then I think anyone who > doesn't read my mail properly must be equally dimwit. > > J > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Dear Javed >> >> Regarding the question at the end of your post;Yes you are wrong and you > are >> a troublemaker. >> >> In my eyes, your formulations and propagations make you suspect of devious >> intentions meant to instigate Indian Muslims. You are their enemy and not >> their friend. That is evidenced by your postings on this List. >> >> You are one of those people I was refering to when I wrote "some on > this >> List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about >> the Mumbai Terror Attacks." >> >> The divides that you seek to create become obvious in these words of yours >> "the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at > the most >> ordinary levels." You cannot be quite such a dimwit to not know that > "Indian >> Society" includes "Indian Muslims". >> >> Your recent convoluted proposal has been "If Pakistan bans JuD, we > should >> demand banning of saffron outfits" >> >> What kind of a Zero-Sum game did you propose? Conversely your suggestion >> reads "If Pakistan DOES NOT ban JUD, we SHOULD NOT demand banning of > saffron >> outfits" >> >> What does our banning or not banning in India of any 'outfit' have > to do >> with what Pakistan does or does not do? >> >> Kshmendra >> >> --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: >> >> From: Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain > in >> DAWN >> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 5:50 PM >> >> Dear Kshmendra >> This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that > Muslim >> terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are >> "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you > have >> heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by >> madarsa students and scholars for last few years. >> >> As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai >> attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just >> because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now >> shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be >> shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media >> doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing >> against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell >> someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they >> look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am >> I wrong? >> >> Javed >> >> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >> wrote: >>> Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are > 'simply >> not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many > Indians >> also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre >> conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. >>> >>> Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the >> 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract > deductions >> that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are > logical >> outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the >> attacks >> on us" >>> >>> One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has > been >> that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. >>> >>> But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above > referred >> to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and >> extricated >> cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by >> Indians of all hues. >>> >>> The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by > the >> Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against >> the >> convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They >> need >> support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile >> argumentation >> that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That > will >> do >> harm to the Muslims and will do no good >>> >>> Kshmendra >>> >>> >>> EXTRACTS: >>> >>> - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate >> conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist > atrocity >> in >> Mumbai. >>> >>> - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, > and >> are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing > is >> as >> it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality >> shifts >> according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective >> truth. >>> >>> - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror >> networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. >>> >>> - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply > not >> willing to face the truth. >>> >>> - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have > created >> ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim > status >> without doing something to change it. >>> >>> - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of >> groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >>> >>> - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders > and >> groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. > We >> have >> seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints > in >> jail >> or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >>> >>> - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of >> religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this >> environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is >> perfectly >> acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill > in >> the >> name of Islam. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain >>> DAWN >>> 13th Dec 2008 >>> >>> IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai >> attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. >>> >>> >>> So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate >> conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist > atrocity >> in >> Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of >> this >> newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief >> proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become > a >> three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent >> in >> our army. >>> >>> >>> It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and > are >> seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as >> it >> seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from >> behind >> the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In > this >> parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your >> point >> of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. >>> >>> >>> Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails >> regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have > been >> attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported > by >> other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a > very >> strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. >>> >>> >>> I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of > the >> terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our > country. >> And >> while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within > our >> borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities > when >> their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence > that >> the >> recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry > readers >> have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. >> Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus >> absolving me of the duty to respond. >>> >>> >>> Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are >> simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not >> demand >> the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups > in >> the >> first place. >>> >>> >>> However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only > ones >> given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most >> straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day > that >> the >> 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a > guy >> who >> said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of >> Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by > the >> British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was >> going >> to marry a Muslim. >>> >>> >>> Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people > with >> lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point > for >> the >> global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this >> terror >> campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And > if >> the >> leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is >> the >> rest of the world supposed to do? >>> >>> >>> In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and >> pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as >> President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. >> This >> is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we >> have >> created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our > victim >> status without doing something to change it. >>> >>> >>> Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in >> Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis > find >> all >> kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to >> Iraq >> to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate > response >> to >> western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir >> is >> used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >>> >>> >>> What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more > lethal >> for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT >> have >> furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in > Mumbai? >> The >> fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians >> does >> not gain any cause any support. >>> >>> >>> The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and >> groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. > We >> have >> seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints > in >> jail >> or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >>> >>> >>> One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that > since >> Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious > extremism has >> come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of >> Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute >> religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. >>> >>> >>> It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created > limitless >> space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed >> border >> with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, >> and >> you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this >> lethal >> cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating >> gainful >> employment for millions of young Pakistanis. >>> >>> >>> But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants >> Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of > commission. >> However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve >> needed >> to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government > taking >> strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. >>> >>> >>> And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our >> intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight > their >> proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological >> links >> with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to > change >> overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. >>> >>> >>> irfan.husain at gmail.com >>> http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> > > From prem.cnt at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 21:27:05 2008 From: prem.cnt at gmail.com (Prem Chandavarkar) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:27:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> <07D169CA4DBD4FBF93DBE93D03091ABD@tara> Message-ID: <7e230b560812140757g679bb3b9vbc15ad435dd98a02@mail.gmail.com> Is it not important to differentiate between banning an organisation versus recognising the importance of the due process of law? If someone has committed a crime of terrorism (or any other crime for that matter), then we should have the legal system to ensure that the person is prosecuted and punished after receiving a fair trial. It is our unwillingness to insist on a proper standard here that is the problem. Perhaps in one sense we have set a reasonable standard in the fact that we are also prosecuting the terrorism of the majority community, as in the Malegaon case (and let us also remember that according to due process of law the accused must be presumed innocent until proven guilty). But that is one case, and there are too many other cases where we have just looked the other way. Raj Thackeray's recent antics in Mumbai, the 2002 riots in Gujarat, the 1992/93 riots in Mumbai, the Babri Masjid demolition, the 1984 Delhi riots: all these incidents and more are cases of violent actions that are blatantly illegal, done in full public view and largely captured by cameras. Yet we do not have a will to prosecute the perpetrators. We do not seem to be bothered by the fact that there has been little attempt to upgrade the judicial apparatus to deal with the large volumes of cases. We seem to have accepted the pervasive corruption that impedes any significant professionalism and public accountability in governance. We do not make a noise about a largely unprofessional and politicised police force that routinely indulges in preventive detention and custodial torture. We do not make a noise about the poor standard of human rights embodied by the Indian state, particularly in dealing with insurgency in Kashmir, the North East and in parts of central India. If we bypass these systemic issues and jump immediately into passing judgement, then we get trapped in the endless subjectivies foregrounded in this discussion thread so far, and many other discussions on this list. Perhaps we would be better served if all the members of this list collectively resolved to refrain from passing judgement, and instead devoted effort towards broader systemic issues such as the standards of inclusive ethics and justice that should guide our actions, and the institutional and political structures that we should demand to achieve this aim. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 00:37:46 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:37:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] If not now, when? Message-ID: <6353c690812141107r62b7e87eyf702e66e50c6eabc@mail.gmail.com> THE RIGHT VIEW If not now, when? 13 Dec 2008, 2258 hrs IST, Tarun Vijay We forget too soon and forgive even before forgiveness is asked for. Our tolerance has brought more and more marauders and murderers. Our virtues have been taken as a mark of cowardice. Remember December 13, the day our Parliament was attacked. Everyone said it was an attack on India. What happened later? Afzal, the terrorist accused of waging war against the Indian state, has found patrons in Delhi. Let's not forget our fellow citizens who have been victims of brutal terrorist attacks. On the eve of December 16, when the arrogant Pakistani marauders surrendered before our armed forces in Dhaka in 1971, let's revive the spirit of victory and firmness to punish the Pakistani terrorists, even if it means bombarding their hideouts. Sometimes to take revenge becomes a pious duty, synonymous with righteousness. Sometimes to be intolerant to the barbaric attacker is the path of virtue. Sometimes using constitutional instruments for silencing the homegrown shields of the terrorists masquerading as secular human rights advocates and apologists for the Batla House module is the only way to protect the meek and plundered classes. It's our politicians' deeds or misdeeds that brought us this day. As guardians of the state and its people, it was their duty to strengthen the security and keep assaulters away. Surrounded as we are by failed states, which are exporting jihad and Marxist terrorism, it was the first and foremost duty of the rulers in Delhi to make the nation's security their first priority, no matter which party they belonged to. They failed us collectively and became spineless chroniclers of a nation's misfortune. Or the registrars of the unending agony of a people. They would simply present reports every year — banned terrorist organizations, number of citizens killed, number of security persons killed, number of bombs and rifles unearthed or captured, number of infiltrators estimated to have sneaked into our territory, number of terrorists eliminated, number ... What a game they played. And now they are talking tough. They used the same language whenever there was a terror attack. Gauge the mood of the people and speak what they want to hear. Soon everything will be normal. Public memory is always short. I am sure the way Kasab, one of the perpetrators of the Mumbai mayhem is being presented in the media, soon there would be committees demanding his release, for the sake of India-Pakistan relations. Or his trial may be delayed to another decade, or maybe he is exchanged in a deal. That's what our past has been. How can we have a different future unless we have a different set of rulers? We are all familiar with the denial mode for the invasions we bore in the past: Aurangzeb didn't demolish Kashi temple, Babar didn't build mosque over Rama's birth place in Ayodhya, Kashmiri Hindus were not driven out by jihadis but were pushed to leave their home and hearth by Jagmohan, the Godhra train was not set blaze by Muslim terrorists but by Hindus themselves, there are no Bangladeshi infiltrators. This attitude isn't going to help anyone — neither the "bigots" nor the Muslims nor the nation. Rather it will increase the bitterness and reinforce divides. So how does the black ribbons help Hindus, the principal targets and the victims of a pogrom that pronouncedly bears the identity of a religion? Or Deoband's ambiguous fatwa against terrorism? They look, unfortunately, more of an effort to buy a civil space in a Hindu majority country than a serious attempt to make jihadis desist from doing what they are doing quoting religious books. Protect plurality, fight unitedly This can be successfully carried on only if every Indian joins it irrespective of his faith. The naked truth is that the last two decades have seen a terrorism which is called Islamic in its contours by the very perpetrators and is powered by Pakistan's military agencies including the ISI. It needs an Indian response, ruthless and decisive. Time to wake up and wave your tricoulour against the marauders. Show a profound solidarity for soldiers. And remember, every single person, whether in olive green or in khaki, fighting the terrorists is a soldier in times like this. Defeat the homegrown shields of terror Phrases like "zero tolerance" mean nothing. The state must be intolerant to the terrorist and merciless in its dealings with those who shelter them and provide a workspace or a kind of legitimacy through religious covers and secular columns. Now, how to combat this situation? Rise united as Indians forgetting parochial, religious, ideological and language fault lines. Those who raise such issues to garner votes must be treated on a par with these terrorists and handed over to the ATS. Any party or organization raking up or assaulting religiously sensitive issues must be discarded and condemned. This can be done through non-political organizations and leadership. The temples, churches and the mosques can't be bigger than the nation, all gods need a space to be identified and worshipped. The nation is the space that counts more than anything else. The Lok Sabha elections are fast nearing. Prepare the entire democratic arsenal for that and choose young fresh faces on the basis of their patriotism and brilliance. Hanif or Hari, doesn't matter, what matters is that they are ready to take on terrorism head on. From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 10:25:01 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:55:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Bush faces a shoe shower in Iraq! Message-ID: <229917.71538.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2008/12/14/ware.lok.president.shoe.cnn.html Worth a watch! From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 15 11:50:59 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:20:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits In-Reply-To: <7e230b560812140757g679bb3b9vbc15ad435dd98a02@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812112018r7a7df1e4m90ef74a547075a07@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812120727q7242cb0bp2584fae1b7f53b09@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812130614u5eca262cg7684e958d5008ebd@mail.gmail.com> <07D169CA4DBD4FBF93DBE93D03091ABD@tara> <7e230b560812140757g679bb3b9vbc15ad435dd98a02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You have missed on the most turbulent 1989-90 period. It was then the pan Islamism inspired terrorism raised its ugly head in Kashmir when indoctrinated; trained & armed with lethal AK47s Kashmiri Muslim separatists along with the other mercenaries were inducted in to Kashmir & the minority Hindu Pandits were subjected to ethnic cleansing in the valley. And for information, please, the ousted Hindu Pandits continue to live in exile as refugees in their own country. It is a different matter that the civil society has chosen to remain silent about it & that is sad. Regards all LA> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:27:05 +0530> From: prem.cnt at gmail.com> To: javedmasoo at gmail.com> CC: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: If Pakistan bans JuD, we should demand banning of saffron outfits> > Is it not important to differentiate between banning an organisation versus> recognising the importance of the due process of law? If someone has> committed a crime of terrorism (or any other crime for that matter), then we> should have the legal system to ensure that the person is prosecuted and> punished after receiving a fair trial. It is our unwillingness to insist on> a proper standard here that is the problem. Perhaps in one sense we have> set a reasonable standard in the fact that we are also prosecuting the> terrorism of the majority community, as in the Malegaon case (and let us> also remember that according to due process of law the accused must be> presumed innocent until proven guilty). But that is one case, and there are> too many other cases where we have just looked the other way. Raj> Thackeray's recent antics in Mumbai, the 2002 riots in Gujarat, the 1992/93> riots in Mumbai, the Babri Masjid demolition, the 1984 Delhi riots: all> these incidents and more are cases of violent actions that are blatantly> illegal, done in full public view and largely captured by cameras. Yet we> do not have a will to prosecute the perpetrators. We do not seem to be> bothered by the fact that there has been little attempt to upgrade the> judicial apparatus to deal with the large volumes of cases. We seem to have> accepted the pervasive corruption that impedes any significant> professionalism and public accountability in governance. We do not make a> noise about a largely unprofessional and politicised police force that> routinely indulges in preventive detention and custodial torture. We do not> make a noise about the poor standard of human rights embodied by the Indian> state, particularly in dealing with insurgency in Kashmir, the North East> and in parts of central India.> > If we bypass these systemic issues and jump immediately into passing> judgement, then we get trapped in the endless subjectivies foregrounded in> this discussion thread so far, and many other discussions on this list.> Perhaps we would be better served if all the members of this list> collectively resolved to refrain from passing judgement, and instead devoted> effort towards broader systemic issues such as the standards of inclusive> ethics and justice that should guide our actions, and the institutional and> political structures that we should demand to achieve this aim.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://in.msn.com/matrimony From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 12:51:40 2008 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:51:40 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN References: <234535.68799.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <677826.11552.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> kshmendra, I have reread your posting a few times. I think I understand your logic but if I am going up the wrong path, am interested in where I read it incorrectly. You are saying: -there are people in india who think this way - such attitudes exist -because of the attacks, all emotions are heightened - lethal self-igniting cocktail -in light of that, it was perhaps foolishly (dangerously?) idealistic to have an action about the importance of peace, the uselessness and counter-productivity of war and the oneness of the people of bombay, that included dadar tt as a site because it is on the central line which terminates at vt. I surmise you didnt go to the urls provided and see the route map of the human chain...... following what I take to be your logic, one of the 2 chains should not have gone past VT, should not have gone up mohammad ali rd - ambedkar rd - sion- because the central line stations follow these roads and that this extremely provocative behaviour of advocating peace and the oneness of bombay citizens might whip of the emotions of people who think this way and use the trains that terminate at vt. are you then saying the chain that went up the western side of the city is ok because the western line terminates at churchgate, not vt, therefore those people wont feel provoked? that in the spirit of we are all together, all mumbaikars, sab ek hai, that the routes should have skipped certain neighborhoods and areas? that it is dangerously provocative to advocate for peace on the ground (I assume you think its OK to write articles either print or electronic since they are experienced at a remove) that the 60,000 people who participated in the human chain, including our part that stretched from dadar tt to hindmata made up of school kids and adults and some spontaneous joinings from the street should not have come out because of the fear of lethal self-igniting cocktails. or the 50+ civil society groups should not have organised the event because it is lethal? or its ok to come out but not at dadat tt? then its provocative or is it not ok all along the central line? esp VT station (it went from nariman house, thru colaba, past taj, past cst, past bmc, to metro, to crawford market and up) - it shouldnt have gone past these sites of remembrance because of the provocative message) it also shouldnt have gone on peddar rd on the western side because people there, one might assume, frequent both the taj and the oberoi? and it shouldnt have started at the oberoi where the staff came out and joined the chain? you get my point I am sure. exactly what are you saying? to stay silent? or to say silent in certain areas? or that, knowing there are people like this only, not to be surprised when confronted with this demonising response. in this i agree. I am not surprised. as I said, these personal anecdotes do continue to happen here in bombay even without human chains, just in the day to day encounters on trains and in public spaces. what I was responding to in my original post was your sentence that there has been no communal demonising. I was pointing out that this isn't true here. but maybe we differ in our definition of communal demonising. maybe you mean actual physical violence or public articulation of that demonisation in the media and in speeches where it is unwrapped and displayed for the consumption of many, instead of in private one-on-one interactions. and just an aside, that doesnt have direct bearing on what I have written above. I understand the term ladies when labeling things - like ladies room, or ladies car on the trains. but when you write 'lets bring in the 7 ladies' it sounds so condescending. it a diminuative. we are women. best kabi Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com ________________________________ From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list ; kabi cubby sherman Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 6:56:28 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Dear Kabi Let us put aside the Mumbai Terror Attack for the moment. It would be foolish of me or anyone to suggest that there are no Indians who hate Muslims or that there are no Indians who automatically see Indian Muslims as being more loyal to Pakistan than India. It would be equally foolish to think that this is not directly a result of the past history of the sub-continent and indeed to some if not a large extent the behaviour of the Indian Muslims themselves. Does any kind of a reasoning justify viewing the Indian Muslims in this manner? No it does not for the simple reason that Muslims are as much a part of India as anyone else and such evaluations/deductions harm India, even if their harbourers think that they are protecting India's interests. It may be explained but cannot be justified. But such attitudes exist. Now add to them the Mumbai Terror attacks with the actors having been identified as Pakistanis. Pakistani Muslims. You now have a potentially lethal self-igniting cocktail. But, this Moltov remained doused. Let us accept that and be thankful to some pro-active steps taken by the Indian Muslims themselves, the careful choice of words by most Indian Politicians including surprisingly the "Hindu" Politicians. This in spite of the hysteria whipped up in the Media (especially video) against Pakistan and to some extent against the Muslims (generalised). How can one forget the idiotic comment of Simi Garewal. Now let us bring in the 7 (9 to 70) ladies at Dadar TT, handing out (presumably 'Peace') leaflets and wearing "jang nahin, aman chahiye" (we want peace, not war) T-shirts. What you were doing had the potential of re-igniting the doused Moltov. That contradicts your own very meaningful advisory of " let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines". It might have been a courageous adherence to ideals sought to be put into practice but the 'terrain' was foolishly chosen. Did you forget that Dadar TT has most of the throughput of trains from CST where quite a few died? Did you forget the public anger against Pakistan which could easily become a throbbing blood-lust of a mob with it's own psyche provoked by your actions? And yet in the passenger flux of quite a few thousands every hour at Dadar TT, inspite of what I would think was extremely provocative behaviour (in the existing atmosphere) only 2 persons contested what you stood for or name-called you with 'tags'. Our own ideas complete our world for us. Everyone's world is completed by their own ideas. Just as we would resent/resist our own 'world of ideas' being attacked or rudely intruded into, we should expect the same reaction from others. In these opposing quadrants of 'ideas', the further away the extreme positions are held, the greater and tougher is the travel to the meeting points. The 7 (9 to 70) ladies should be extremely thankful to the Mumbaikars who showed restraint; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere. I wish you well. Kshmendra PS. The above is a cold evaluation. I empathise with the sadness that you must felt. --- On Sun, 12/14/08, kabi cubby sherman wrote: From: kabi cubby sherman Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 4:58 PM ksmendra, "One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India." I take it you live in delhi. i would like to share a sad personal anecdote - Friday was the human chain event here in bombay. Its message was no violence, no terror, no war. We are all one here in bombay, here in india. it was organised by civil society groups - the name of the event was mumbai for peace - join hands in unity. http://www.mumbaicitizens.com/a/StartPage.aspx this was just one event in a campaign with medium and longterm objectives the groups name is citizens for peace http://citizensforpeace.in/ i and some friends arrived at dadar tt early to pass out pamphlets. we were about 7 women, ages 9-70. more would be arriving later. we had on tshirts that said - jang nahin, aman chahiye on the back. we started passing out pamphlets. 2 men in their 50s probably, nicely dressed in western casual - came up and we started to give them pamphlets. they stated they were against us and against our movement (in hindi). then they started shouting at us - you are muslims. there were no 'markers' which would let them 'read' us either way, or in any way since things arent binary. we asked - what is wrong with being muslim? we are all mumbaikar.. they said no, you are muslim and you are traitors. muslims are traitors.. we didnt engage.. we said that they were welcome to not join the chain if they didnt want to. they then left but came back and followed us to everyone we spoke to - saying dont join this, they are traitors, they are muslim. they are against war. taking a step back, what was interesting was their logic. muslim=traitor has always been assumed by a part of the society. it now seems expanded to : not wanting war=muslim=traitor and not wanting war=traitor=you are a muslim. personal anecdote is only that...(tho there have been more than just a few like this lately here in bombay). it is not the big picture. but the big picture doesnt contain the personal acendote, the day to day. let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines. let us try for community, for reason, for honesty about ourselves and for dialogue. kabi Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com ________________________________ From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 4:31:56 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us" One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues. The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good Kshmendra EXTRACTS: - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ........ In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. - .... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain DAWN 13th Dec 2008 IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army.. It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ From rama.sangye at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 13:47:21 2008 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:47:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ruchir Joshi on Mumbai terror attack Message-ID: <6ade4a8f0812150017g71500012if40b0f34761a3935@mail.gmail.com> The thin edge WHERE JOURNEYS BEGIN The day Mumbai became Bombay again Ruchir Joshi The Telegraph, 14 Dec 2008 Terminus: a place where something terminates — usually journeys, but also, in railway terms, the place where sometimes long journeys begin. Dateline: November 24, 2018, Bombay: As the tenth anniversary of the '08 Massacre pulls up, I sit writing this column in Bombay, from a bar-café in B.R. Ambedkar Terminus, known in its previous avatars as VT, (as in Victoria Terminus, after the erstwhile Queen of Britain and Empress of India) and CST, (after Shivaji, Chhatrapati Shivaji, the warrior-hero of the Marathas from a few hundred years earlier). Given the speeded up tectonic shift in current politics, I can't help wondering whom this grand station will be named after next. I wish I could light up a cigarette, but the smoke I really miss is the proper, sooty smoke from the great, horned mammoths of my childhood, the steam-engines that dragged me from the maelstrom of Howrah Station in Calcutta to the very differing cyclones of VT and Bombay Central. I also gladly miss, as I did on that day when I was very far away, the smoke, or the absence of it, from the AK-47 sub-machineguns as they opened up. TV channels are replaying old CCTV footage from the attack on the Station, stuff that younger people today find extraordinary: waiters behind fast-food counters holding hands to their ears, walking around ramrod straight as the shooting begins. "My god, duck down! Don't they know it's a bullet-multiplier?", "Machine-gun, we called it then, sweetie.", "Whatever! Don't they know??", "No, they thought it was firecrackers." Till the bullets started to tear into them. There is a memorial an artist made on the fifth anniversary. A slab of concrete into which she fired 200 AK rounds with the names of each of the identifiable Bombay dead inscribed, one next to each bullet-hole, and it stands not far from the platform where the super-fast trains from Karachi now terminate. It's one of the many tiny ironies that the trains plying the Pakistan routes are the design-descendants of the legendary Japanese 'Bullet' Trains of the 1960s — the eastern and Deccan lines, as we know, having been captured by the spin-offs from the defunct French and Swiss TGV combines. The Pak-side trains are all called 'Bullet', as in "Karachi ka Bullet time pey aayela kya?" (Did the Bullet from Karachi reach on time?), "Idhar ka Bullet chalaa gaya?" (Did the Bullet leave from here already?). Yes, it did, my friend, straight through to Ahmedabad and Bhuj and then Karachi , where it will ricochet on northwards to terminate at Lahore Central. Total journey time: ten hours, including stops. Next year, they say, they will shave it to eight and a half, though that's even worse for the environment, all that fast metal shooting through the fields. All this was unimaginable on the day they opened fire on the massed, waiting passengers at VT/CST, but the today we have is possible in no small part precisely because of those four days, which we now call by various names, including The Great Bombay Massacre. It was not strictly 'Great', given that only 200 people seemed to have actually died; but, looking back, it was a watershed made of blood. The rivers of red flowed away in several different directions, hooking different tributaries, flooding, and at times almost drying up, but unmistakably changing colour as they dropped from the crags of the high, seemingly immutable rock of fixed positions. To many, it then seemed one of the worst moments, one of the worst human-made tragedies of post-Babri sub-continental history. Indeed, as we know, in terms of human cost, numbers of dead and wounded and damaged, a lot worse was still to come. But today we can say: That was when the tide turned. That was the moment the b******s lost the game. Not because of the Taj Hotel, not because of the Trident Hotel or Nariman House, but when they opened fire on the waiting crowd at the station and on the patients in Cama Hospital. That was the game, and they didn't quite understand it. That was whe n they finally became nangaa to everyone, to the public-at-large, to the fast-moving glacier of large-janata, poor and not so poor. People on all sides of all sorts of divides then understood that this was intolerable for all, that if this was in any way accepted, then life would not be worth living, prayers not worth praying. We can also, thankfully, say that they, these trendily-dressed gunmen, tore the fig-leafs off a whole host of others as they went down. It's now worth remembering that, in the weeks immediately after the attack, the plaint from many of the so-called intellectuals of the day consisted of lovelorn paeans to the other faux-Gothic building, the Taj Mahal Hotel. which was badly damaged, and the now defunct Trident Hotel. Yes, many were brutally killed in these places as well, but it's worth remembering that the media, both Indian and international, concentrated only on the sites where Western visitors were caught. That was the 'drama', the 'eyeball-factory' of the event. But, even in the immediate aftermath, the signs were on the screen. The final disintegration of the already atomized Shiv Sena factions took a while, but Bal Thackeray was still there to witness his Maratha-machismo being finally revealed for the braying bravado of cheap theatre it really was, suddenly stripped naked — 'Maratha Manoos' completely missing in action during the fight to stop the gunmen, no cadres of the Shiv Sena rushing forward to fight and die before the machine-guns when the city they claimed as their own was under attack. The other Hindu Right factions lost crucial states to a bleeding, limping Congress in the state elections immediately after the attacks — their attempt to create electoral maal out of the death toll coming to very little. The Congress, too, was centrally damaged, though like a swift and subtle knife-wound, the blood only spurted out much later. On the multi-hued Left, too, there was damage, fallout from the four-day Party-busting party in South Bombay. Maoists in central India were forced to give a 'gun salute' for the dead in Bombay, a hilariously desperate attempt to put clear blue water between themselves and the jihadis. Unfortunately for themselves, the neo-Naxals were in an ideological position that was as land-locked as Madhya Pradesh. It was not that easy to get away from their cousins, the 'superbly trained' jihadis. It was suddenly becoming clear to people at large that, for both the Comrades and the bhais, there actually was No God but Kalashni-god. When their ancestors had begun their struggle in '66, the Maoists had airs, but also graces and erudition, a morality of a certain kind that had evaporated a long time ago. Along with the all-singing, all-dancing troupe of Mullahinettes, these people now stood revealed and naked, envious stage-hands forced to support the upstart rockstars. Along with the tren dy guy in the Versace T-shirt and the AK-accessory, the New Model Naxals, too, stood in the dock of public perception. It seems quite minor now, but I feel obliged to remind readers that it's a very good thing they didn't make it, neither Salafist nor Zedongist, that they didn't actually make their targets, that both groups failed. In those four Mumbai-to-Bombay days, the Allah-Ho-Versace guys didn't make their aim, not completely, not by a long chalk. At the time, many of us thought they'd scored big-time, but sitting in the bumpy train of time we can see that they were the losers that fell off. We can see now, now that the old blood has dried and evaporated, that both jihadis and Naxals were victims of rape, of mental rape, of social conditions that were extremely unfriendly to a reasonable exchange of generally perceived realities. This may sound like being very kind to them, but now, with the passage of time, surely we can afford to be human? Maybe not, because it's not been that long; time hasn't had the time to cauterize their actions; but the basic message that comes through time, through innovative engineering, through the shifting loyalties of steel, aluminium and money, is that targeted, political violence has had its day, whether it comes from the government or its unsubcribers. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 15:14:44 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:44:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <138404.83287.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Your conviction is more important than my convenience.   Your reworded statement now presents a completely different scenario from the one which you had earlier pictured. A factual one too, that   "The media doesn't reflect the deep bias some among Hindu society has been nurturing against Muslims".   There is yet another countervailing fact that "The media doesn't reflect the deep bias some among Muslim society has been nurturing against Hindus"   Here now is the interesting part. If you replace the two identities with any distinctive mix of groups based on faith, caste, economic class, region etc, you will  again get factual representations.   There is not much specialised targetting of or generalised bias against Muslims as a Group as compared with any other Group. Everyone whines that the Media is against them or does not pay enough attention to their problems. Some Hindus will in fact tell you that almost all of the major Media Organisations are owned by or controlled by Muslims and Christians. They will detail the Shareholdings for you. Such conspiracy theories abound.   Muslims get targetted by the Media when horrific acts are committed in the  name of Islam or purportedly on behalf of Muslims just as Hindus are targetted by the Media when horrific acts are committed in the name of Hinduism or puportedly on behalf of Hindus.   The more the divides are highlighted, the more they will deepen.   Do Muslims (as a society) face biases against them as a Minority. Of course they do. Again nothing specific to Muslims. Many "in the Minority" Groups face that all over India, including a "Hindu Minority".    It might be pertinent to point out that the "bias against a Minority" has it's redressal at the level of  each individual State. Specific problems that could be faced by specific minorities to specific extents in each specific State.There is nothing Federal about either the "bias" or a solution for it. It is not a National Issue.   Those who make it a National Issue are politicising the divides and the biases against Minorities. They do more harm than good. They highlight the divides.   The more the divides are highlighted, the more they deepen. The greater will be the repercussions.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 9:29 PM Kshmendra Let me re-phrase my sentence for your convinience: instead of saying Indian society, what I meant was: "The media doesn't reflect the deep bias some among Hindu society has been nurturing against Muslims". Does that make it sound better. And when I posted the news about terrorists having purchased liquor before attacking in Mumbai, I was asking what sort of Muslim terrorists were they if they enjoyed alcohol. I maybe wrong, but one can suppose that such kind of terrorist training (especially in places like Pakistan/Afghanistan) must involve strict adherence to Islamic laws, which means not touching alcohol. If they are promised paradise in return of such deeds (which is why agree to become suicide-squads), there is no way they should touch alcohol. So, I was only wondering what sort of Muslims were they? Javed On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > You are requested that you should not misquote. I did not call you a dimwit. > > I said you cannot be a dimwit and that is why I saw deviousness in your > seeking to propagate a divide by talking about Muslims as being separate > from "Indian Society". > > If want to go the sympathy seeking route of "Poor Me, he suggested I am a > dimwit", that is your choice. > > I would rather you realise that you should not have mentioned Muslims as > being separate from "Indian Society". Unless you were deliberately being > devious and want to instigate Indian Muslims. You have not commented on > that. > > You have also not commented on your Zero-Sum proposal of "If JUD then > Saffronites too". > > I apologise if you did not suggest / propagate any conspiracy theory about > the Mumbai Terror Attacks. I vaguely remember a posting from you questioning > if the "terrorists" were Muslims and something about their stocking alcohol. > Maybe I misinterpreted. Apologies. > > Kshmendra > > PS: Incidentally, I quite liked the "Tasveerghar" work. Also I > thoroughly enjoyed reading your recently posted comments on Iqbal. > > > > --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in > DAWN > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 8:23 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > Yes I am a dimwit (if that helps your ego), but I am not a > troublemaker. I didn't suggest any conspiracy theory about Mumbai. If > I have to repeat it again and again that "I am against terrorism and I > cry for Mumbai victims as much as anyone" then I think anyone who > doesn't read my mail properly must be equally dimwit. > > J > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Dear Javed >> >> Regarding the question at the end of your post;Yes you are wrong and you > are >> a troublemaker. >> >> In my eyes, your formulations and propagations make you suspect of devious >> intentions meant to instigate Indian Muslims. You are their enemy and not >> their friend. That is evidenced by your postings on this List. >> >> You are one of those people I was refering to when I wrote "some on > this >> List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre conspiracy theories about >> the Mumbai Terror Attacks." >> >> The divides that you seek to create become obvious in these words of yours >> "the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing against Muslims at > the most >> ordinary levels." You cannot be quite such a dimwit to not know that > "Indian >> Society" includes "Indian Muslims". >> >> Your recent convoluted proposal has been "If Pakistan bans JuD, we > should >> demand banning of saffron outfits" >> >> What kind of a Zero-Sum game did you propose? Conversely your suggestion >> reads "If Pakistan DOES NOT ban JUD, we SHOULD NOT demand banning of > saffron >> outfits" >> >> What does our banning or not banning in India of any 'outfit' have > to do >> with what Pakistan does or does not do? >> >> Kshmendra >> >> --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Javed wrote: >> >> From: Javed >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain > in >> DAWN >> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 5:50 PM >> >> Dear Kshmendra >> This is not the first time that Muslims are "realizing" that > Muslim >> terrorists exist. And this is not the first time that they are >> "jolted" and are denouncing the acts of terror. I wonder if you > have >> heard about hundreds of peace marches and denouncements done by >> madarsa students and scholars for last few years. >> >> As for the pleasant postscript of no demonizing of Muslims post-Mumbai >> attacks, what is your criteria? On what basis do you say that. Just >> because we have arrested one Pakistani boy, the attention has now >> shifted to Pakistan. If that guy had also died, then everyone would be >> shouting home-grown, home-grown, home grown terrorists. The media >> doesn't reflect the deep bias Indian society has been nurturing >> against Muslims at the most ordinary levels. Go out there and tell >> someone you have a Muslim name and see how they react. How do they >> look at you so differently if you wearing a beard and a skull cap. Am >> I wrong? >> >> Javed >> >> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >> wrote: >>> Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are > 'simply >> not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many > Indians >> also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated bizarre >> conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks. >>> >>> Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the >> 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract > deductions >> that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are > logical >> outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the >> attacks >> on us" >>> >>> One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has > been >> that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India. >>> >>> But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above > referred >> to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and >> extricated >> cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by >> Indians of all hues. >>> >>> The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by > the >> Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against >> the >> convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They >> need >> support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile >> argumentation >> that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That > will >> do >> harm to the Muslims and will do no good >>> >>> Kshmendra >>> >>> >>> EXTRACTS: >>> >>> - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate >> conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist > atrocity >> in >> Mumbai. >>> >>> - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, > and >> are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing > is >> as >> it seems; ....... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality >> shifts >> according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective >> truth. >>> >>> - ..... many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror >> networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. >>> >>> - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply > not >> willing to face the truth. >>> >>> - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have > created >> ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim > status >> without doing something to change it. >>> >>> - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of >> groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >>> >>> - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders > and >> groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. > We >> have >> seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints > in >> jail >> or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >>> >>> - .... since Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of >> religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this >> environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is >> perfectly >> acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill > in >> the >> name of Islam. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain >>> DAWN >>> 13th Dec 2008 >>> >>> IF you do a Google search with 'CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai >> attacks' as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. >>> >>> >>> So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate >> conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist > atrocity >> in >> Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of >> this >> newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief >> proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become > a >> three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent >> in >> our army. >>> >>> >>> It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and > are >> seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as >> it >> seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from >> behind >> the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In > this >> parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your >> point >> of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. >>> >>> >>> Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails >> regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have > been >> attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor. But I have been supported > by >> other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a > very >> strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. >>> >>> >>> I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of > the >> terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our > country. >> And >> while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within > our >> borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities > when >> their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence > that >> the >> recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry > readers >> have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. >> Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus >> absolving me of the duty to respond. >>> >>> >>> Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are >> simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not >> demand >> the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups > in >> the >> first place. >>> >>> >>> However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only > ones >> given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most >> straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day > that >> the >> 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a > guy >> who >> said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of >> Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by > the >> British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was >> going >> to marry a Muslim. >>> >>> >>> Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people > with >> lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point > for >> the >> global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this >> terror >> campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And > if >> the >> leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is >> the >> rest of the world supposed to do? >>> >>> >>> In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and >> pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as >> President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. >> This >> is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we >> have >> created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our > victim >> status without doing something to change it. >>> >>> >>> Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in >> Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis > find >> all >> kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to >> Iraq >> to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate > response >> to >> western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir >> is >> used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. >>> >>> >>> What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more > lethal >> for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT >> have >> furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in > Mumbai? >> The >> fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians >> does >> not gain any cause any support. >>> >>> >>> The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and >> groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. > We >> have >> seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints > in >> jail >> or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. >>> >>> >>> One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that > since >> Zia's destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious > extremism has >> come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of >> Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute >> religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. >>> >>> >>> It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created > limitless >> space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed >> border >> with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, >> and >> you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this >> lethal >> cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating >> gainful >> employment for millions of young Pakistanis. >>> >>> >>> But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants >> Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of > commission. >> However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve >> needed >> to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government > taking >> strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. >>> >>> >>> And here's the rub: for over two decades, the military and our >> intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight > their >> proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological >> links >> with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to > change >> overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. >>> >>> >>> irfan.husain at gmail.com >>> http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> > > From pranesh at cis-india.org Mon Dec 15 18:02:17 2008 From: pranesh at cis-india.org (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:02:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CIS presents Pixel Pirates II | Friday, December 19, 2008 Message-ID: <4785f1e20812150432g15a9ea0bie15109cd7ac1e643@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, The *Centre for Internet and Society* cordially invites you to a screening of *Pixel Pirates II*, a remix video made by the artist duo *Soda_Jerk*. After the screening, Soda_Jerk will lead a discussion of the process and cultural context of their video remix practice. *What*: *Pixel Pirate II: Attack of the Astro Elvis Clone* (2002-2006 / Remixed by *Soda_Jerk*) *When*: *Friday, December 19, 2008 | 18:00-20:00 hrs*. *Where*: *Nani Cinematheque* (at CFD), 5th Floor, Sona Towers, 71 Millers Road, Bangalore *About the remixers* Soda_Jerk (Dan & Dominique Angeloro) are two Sydney-based artists working collaboratively in the areas of video, photomedia and installation. They work exclusively with found material, recombining fragments of film footage, audio samples and vintage image culture to create new works. *About the film* "The hour-long narrative remix video "Pixel Pirate II: Attack of the Astro Elvis Video Clone" (2002-06) is a critique of intellectual property law that is constructed from samples pirated from over 300 film and music sources. Think of it as a sci-fi / biblical epic / romance / action movie that stars Elvis Presley, Moses, the Hulk, Michael Jackson, Jesus, Batman and the Ghostbusters. Since its 2006 launch at the Art Gallery of New South Wales, Sydney it has been screened internationally in the Czech Republic, Germany, Scotland, the Netherlands, Mexico and India." *More* Event on CIS site: < http://www.cis-india.org/advocacy/ipr/events/screening-of-pixel-pirate-ii-attack-of-the-astro-elvis-video-clone > Event on Facebook: Event on Upcoming: For more information about Soda_Jerk, and about Pixel Pirate II, please visit: and . *Contact* You may contact the organizers by emailing pranesh[at]cis-india.org or calling +91 80 40926283. From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Dec 15 19:25:56 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:25:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: YJA- Fw: Balancing Act_read the highlighted portions References: <659937df0812150529i1207f72cvde1216ae72afa2c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38A2FC50-0E08-4131-9299-0925DFDECCBF@sarai.net> This document is amazing!! Begin forwarded message: > From: "Yamuna Jiye Abhiyaan" > Date: 15 December 2008 6:59:20 PM GMT+05:30 > To: yamunajiye at gmail.com > Subject: YJA- Fw: Balancing Act_read the highlighted portions > > Dear Friends, > > As if the ganging up of the whole set of the legal luminaries of the > day, against the river, in the SC was not enough, please peruse the > contents (see below) of a proposed motion at the highest decion > making body in the land, namely the Indian Parliament. > > Why do these guys make laws and rules in the first place, if they > themselves wish them to be trampled upon by design? > > Happy reading..... > > Manoj Misra > Convenor > > > > > > > No. 45594 > Legislative Section > NO-DAY-YET-NAMED MOTIONS LIST NO.7 > Motions admitted under rule 170 in the name > of Shri Jai Parkash Aggarwal, > Member, Rajya Sabha > > > > BY SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL: > > 303. "That this House, in view of the delay in the scheme for > interlinking of the rivers in the country, urges upon the Government > to take immediate action in this regard." > > 304. "That this House, in view of the incidents of starvation and > malnutrition in the country, especially in the backward regions, > urges upon the Government to formulate a strategy for developing the > backward regions." > > 308. "That this House, in view of the constantly increasing number > of companies engaged in the bottling of pure drinking water and > manufacturing of aerated drinks and indiscreet commercial > exploitation of ground water by them, urges upon the Government to > take necessary steps for making a strict law or policy in order to > prevent rampant exploitation of ground water for commercial purpose." > > 314. "That this House recommends to the Government to take > necessary steps at the international level to uproot naxalism from > the world." > > 315. "That this House recommends to the Government to take > necessary steps immediately to ensure that environmental clearance > and provisions of other Acts do not pose obstacles to the projects > related to Commonwealth Games - 2010." > > 323. "That this House recommends to the Government to consider the > policy to expand the industries and to promote the foreign trade > through Special Economic Zones." > > > > 324. "That this House recommends to the Government to consider the > fallout of shortage of power in the country and take appropriate > steps for review of the power policy in private sector as it has > failed to work efficiently." > > > > 325. "That this House urges upon the Government to take necessary > steps to make the country self-reliant in its requirement of > foodgrains." > > > > 326. "That this House recommends to the Government to take > necessary effective steps for eradicating beggary." > > > V. K. AGNIHOTRI > > Secretary > General > > > > > > > -- > www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 19:45:54 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:15:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN In-Reply-To: <677826.11552.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <269813.41145.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Kabi   You have read my posting too many times. Read it correctly in part and in part read too much in it.   THE LADIES AND THE WOMEN Since your 'aside' carried and shouted itself the loudest at me, I start with addressing that.   In my vocabulary a nine year old female child is a girl and not a woman. She is a Young Lady. Hence the usage of "Ladies" when a range of ages (from 9 to 70) was mentioned. There is nothing diminutive or condescending suggested in the word "Lady".   COMMUNAL DEMONISING & ONE-ON-ONE INTERACTIONS You correctly described what I meant by 'communal demonising' in your words " actual physical violence or public articulation of that demonisation in the media and in speeches where it is unwrapped and displayed for the consumption of many"   I have already mentioned that (it would foolish of anyone not to accept) that there are "Indians who hate Muslims" and that there "Indians who automatically see Indian Muslims as being more loyal to Pakistan than India." Even without the Mumbai Terror attacks these attitudes would occur in the "personal anecdotes" of "one-on-one interactions" that you mentioned. It would be surprising if there were no increase in intensity, vehemence and frequency in the immediacy of the Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Communal disharmony has it's roots in the attitudes of the individual which get harnessed into mobs by those interested in doing so. A giant transformation with potential for great devastation. That is why I highlighted thankfulnees to " some pro-active steps taken by the Indian Muslims themselves, the careful choice of words by most Indian Politicians including surprisingly the "Hindu" Politicians."   Which brings me to "WAR".   Communalising of a situation is rarely State Driven. I wrote in 'rarely' because there would be obvious contestations with reference to Muslims in Gujrat, Sikhs in Delhi and Hindus in Kashmir. But howsoever great the 'communal conflagaration' usually it is in the interest of the 'State' to speedily act to defuse it.   "War" on the other hand is totally a State Driven Option  irrespective  of how intense the public support for or against War might be.   CONSTITUENCY FOR WAR AND CONSTITUENCY FOR PEACE Let me suggest that in the given atmosphere of happenings, the "Constituency for Peace" is as extremist as the "Constituency for War"   Correct me, but I did not hear many (if any) significant public voices calling for "War". I did not hear many (if any) political positions calling for "War". This inspite of sizeable public anger towards Pakistan and hysterical voices here and there (projected by the 'ratings driven' Media).   "War"  is State Driven and the State through all it's constituent political representations did not call for or advocate "War". It does not matter what the public feeling is.    What one did hear was "Teach Pakistan a Lesson". Lessons can be taught in many a ways (excluding War) and Pakistan does need learning some lessons just as India needs the learning of some lessons.   If my analysis of there being little advocacy for War amongst those who can initiate it, is valid, then calls for "Peace" are a provocation. They are unproductive. In fact they insult those who are saddened and angered by the turn of events, which is the overwhelming majority of Indians.      I would again remind you of your words " let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines". When there was no "move towards War", the "call for Peace" sounds like a self-indulgence for whatever reason. Thankfully it cannot shift tectonics.    To my mind, voices of reason would not talk about PEACE, but would acknowledge the justified anger towards Pakistan and advocate measured RESTRAINT.   You obviously thought differently.   I must re-mention the context of the above comments is with the rider qualification of "In the immediacy of the Mumbai Terror Attacks"   My 'aside' to you is that those who advocate War possibly do not understand War and it's ravages. I have not only lived through it at my doorstep but also suffered a closely personal loss because of it. I would never advocate unless perhaps I judged it as absolutely the only option left to protect the integrity of my society and the Country Umbrella under which it functions.    DADAR TT AND THE HUMAN CHAIN  You are right, I did not visit the URLs. The 7 WOMEN (Ladies) at Dadar TT was not registered by me as being part of a Human Chain.   The Image for me was "just the 7" wearing "Peace T-shirts" and handing out "Peace" pamphlets. I called the choice of Dadar TT as "foolish terrain" (for just the 7). Yes "dangerous" too were it to be "just the 7" as I understood it.   I will not labour over the various questionings (and sarcasms, unless I misread) over the 'routes' and 'locations'. Dadar TT was significant  in my eyes since being on the "Central Line" it was quite likely that many amongst those who passed through it while the Peace Initiative was at work, had seen the horrors at CST or been at CST that day of or the day after the attacks. Emotions could have been provoked. "Aaa baeil mujhko maar" (Come bull, gore me)    I hope what I had earlier written to you is clearer in both the context and meaning / intention.     Take care   Kshmendra   --- On Mon, 12/15/08, kabi cubby sherman wrote: From: kabi cubby sherman Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 12:51 PM kshmendra, I have reread your posting a few times. I think I understand your logic but if I am going up the wrong path, am interested in where I read it incorrectly. You are saying: -there are people in india who think this way - such attitudes exist -because of the attacks, all emotions are heightened - lethal self-igniting cocktail -in light of that, it was perhaps foolishly (dangerously?) idealistic to have an action about the importance of peace, the uselessness and counter-productivity of war and the oneness of the people of bombay, that included dadar tt as a site because it is on the central line which terminates at vt. I surmise you didnt go to the urls provided and see the route map of the human chain...... following what I take to be your logic, one of the 2 chains should not have gone past VT, should not have gone up mohammad ali rd - ambedkar rd - sion- because the central line stations follow these roads and that this extremely provocative behaviour of  advocating peace and the oneness of bombay citizens might whip of the emotions of people who think this way and use the trains that terminate at vt. are you then saying the chain that went up the western side of the city is ok because the western line terminates at churchgate, not vt, therefore those people wont feel provoked? that in the spirit of we are all together, all mumbaikars, sab ek hai, that the routes should have skipped certain neighborhoods and areas? that it is dangerously provocative to advocate for peace on the ground (I assume you think its OK to write articles either print or electronic since they are experienced at a remove) that the 60,000 people who participated in the human chain, including our part that stretched from dadar tt to hindmata made up of school kids and adults and some spontaneous joinings from the street should not have come out because of the fear of lethal self-igniting cocktails. or the 50+ civil society groups should not have organised the event because it is lethal? or its ok to come out but not at dadat tt? then its provocative or is it not ok all along the central line? esp VT station (it went from nariman house, thru colaba, past taj, past cst, past bmc, to metro, to crawford market and up) - it shouldnt have gone past these sites of remembrance because of the provocative message) it also shouldnt have gone on peddar rd on the western side because people there, one might assume, frequent both the taj and the oberoi? and it shouldnt have started at the oberoi where the staff came out and joined the chain? you get my point I am sure. exactly what are you saying? to stay silent? or to say silent in certain areas? or that, knowing there are people like this only, not to be surprised when confronted with this demonising response. in this i agree. I am not surprised. as I said, these personal anecdotes do continue to happen here in bombay even without human chains, just in the day to day encounters on trains and in public spaces. what I was responding to in my original post was your sentence that there has been no communal demonising. I was pointing out that this isn't true here. but maybe we differ in our definition of communal demonising. maybe you mean actual physical violence or public articulation of that demonisation in the media and in speeches where it is unwrapped and displayed for the consumption of many, instead of in private one-on-one interactions. and just an aside, that doesnt have direct bearing on what I have written above. I understand the term ladies when labeling things - like ladies room, or ladies car on the trains. but when you write 'lets bring in the 7 ladies' it sounds so condescending. it a diminuative. we are women. best kabi Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list ; kabi cubby sherman Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 6:56:28 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Dear Kabi   Let us put aside the Mumbai Terror Attack for the moment.   It would be foolish of me or anyone to suggest that there are no Indians who hate Muslims or that there are no Indians who automatically see Indian Muslims as being more loyal to Pakistan than India.   It would be equally foolish to think that this is not directly a result of the past history of the sub-continent and indeed to some if not a large extent the behaviour of the Indian Muslims themselves.   Does any kind of a reasoning justify viewing the Indian Muslims in this manner? No it does not for the simple reason that Muslims are as much a part of India as anyone else and such evaluations/deductions harm India, even if their harbourers think that they are protecting India's interests. It may be explained but cannot be justified.   But such attitudes exist. Now add to them the Mumbai Terror attacks with the actors having been identified as Pakistanis. Pakistani Muslims.   You now have a potentially lethal self-igniting cocktail. But, this Moltov remained doused.    Let us accept that and be thankful to some pro-active steps taken by the Indian Muslims themselves, the careful choice of words by most Indian Politicians including surprisingly the "Hindu" Politicians. This in spite of the hysteria whipped up in the Media (especially video) against Pakistan and to some extent against the Muslims (generalised). How can one forget the idiotic comment of Simi Garewal.   Now let us bring in the 7 (9 to 70) ladies at Dadar TT, handing out (presumably 'Peace') leaflets and wearing "jang nahin, aman chahiye" (we want peace, not war) T-shirts.   What you were doing had the potential of re-igniting the doused Moltov. That contradicts your own very meaningful  advisory of " let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines". It might have been a courageous adherence to ideals sought to be put into practice but the 'terrain' was foolishly chosen.   Did you forget that Dadar TT has most of the throughput of trains from CST where quite a few died? Did you forget the public anger against Pakistan which could easily become a throbbing blood-lust of a mob with it's own psyche provoked by your actions?   And yet in the passenger flux of quite a few thousands every hour at Dadar TT, inspite of what I would think was extremely provocative behaviour (in the existing atmosphere) only 2 persons contested what you stood for or name-called you with 'tags'.   Our own ideas complete our world for us. Everyone's world is completed by their own ideas. Just as we would resent/resist our own 'world of ideas' being attacked or rudely intruded into, we should expect the same reaction from others. In these opposing quadrants of 'ideas', the further away the extreme positions are held, the greater and tougher is the travel to the meeting points.   The 7 (9 to 70) ladies should be extremely thankful to the Mumbaikars who showed restraint; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere; given the existing atmosphere.   I wish you well.    Kshmendra   PS. The above is a cold evaluation. I empathise with the sadness that you must felt.   --- On Sun, 12/14/08, kabi cubby sherman wrote: From: kabi cubby sherman Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 4:58 PM ksmendra, "One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India."   I take it you live in delhi. i would like to share a sad personal anecdote - Friday was the human chain event here in bombay. Its message was no violence, no terror, no war. We are all one here in bombay, here in india. it was organised by civil society groups - the name of the event was mumbai for peace - join hands in unity. http://www.mumbaicitizens.com/a/StartPage.aspx  this was just one event in a campaign with medium and longterm objectives the groups name is citizens for peace http://citizensforpeace.in/  i and some friends arrived at dadar tt early to pass out pamphlets. we were about 7 women, ages 9-70. more would be arriving later. we had on tshirts that said - jang nahin, aman chahiye on the back. we started passing out pamphlets. 2 men in their 50s probably, nicely dressed in western casual - came up and we started to give them pamphlets.  they stated they were against us and against our movement (in hindi). then they started shouting at us - you are muslims. there were no 'markers' which would let them 'read' us either way, or in any way since things arent binary. we asked - what is wrong with being muslim? we are all mumbaikar.. they said no, you are muslim and you are traitors. muslims are traitors.. we didnt engage.. we said that they were welcome to not join the chain if they didnt want to. they then left but came back and followed us to everyone we spoke to - saying dont join this, they are traitors, they are muslim. they are against war. taking a step back, what was interesting was their logic. muslim=traitor has always been assumed by a part of the society. it now seems expanded to : not wanting war=muslim=traitor and not wanting war=traitor=you are a muslim. personal anecdote is only that...(tho there have been more than just a few like this lately here in bombay). it is not the big picture. but the big picture doesnt contain the personal acendote, the day to day. let us all be aware of the ruptures, the fissures, the faultlines. let us try for community, for reason, for honesty about ourselves and for dialogue. kabi  Meter Down - काली पीली कि कहानी podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown blog: http://meterdown..wordpress.com From: Kshmendra Kaul To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 14 December, 2008 4:31:56 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Life in a parallel universe - By Irfan Husain in DAWN Irfan Husain talks about 'so many Pakistanis' who are 'simply not willing to face the truth.". That could be said about so many Indians also of whom some on this List itself have suggested / propagated  bizarre conspiracy theories about the Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Worse still are those Indians who fleetingly acknowledge the 'truth' but bury it in a web of words out which they extract deductions that suggest "Oh! This was bound to happen. Such terror attacks are logical outcomes of our own policies. We ourselves are majorly to blame for the attacks on us"   One pleasantly astounding postscript of the Mumbai Terror Attacks has been that it has seen no communal demonizing of the Muslims of India.   But it is being directly or indirectly communalised by the above referred to Indians who in their intellectually devious jugglery of words and extricated cross-connections seem intent on breaking the solidarity shown this far by Indians of all hues.     The Muslims of India and indeed many of Pakistan have been jolted by the Mumbai Terror Attacks and motivated into taking up issues head-on against the convoluted interpretations of Islam that justify such terror attacks. They need support in such introspection and efforts. They do not need facile argumentation that finds excuses for or justifications for such terror attacks. That will do harm to the Muslims and will do no good     Kshmendra     EXTRACTS:   - ... there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai.   - It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; ......... In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. - .....  many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country..   - ..... it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth.   - ..... what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. - .... the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. - The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over.   - ..... since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam.       "Life in a parallel universe" - By Irfan Husain DAWN 13th Dec 2008   IF you do a Google search with ‘CIA + RAW + Mossad + Mumbai attacks’ as your parameters, you will get about 51,200 results. So clearly, there are thousands out there who have developed elaborate conspiracy theories to explain who was behind the recent terrorist atrocity in Mumbai. Some of these theories have even appeared in the letters column of this newspaper. Sadly, Hamid Gul, the ex-head of the ISI, is one of the chief proponents of such hare-brained theories. The fact that he rose to become a three-star general makes one wonder about the promotion policies prevalent in our army.. It would seem that millions do not accept the evidence available, and are seeking to fit in the attacks with their world view in which nothing is as it seems; where we are all manipulated by forces that pull the strings from behind the scenes; and where we are ultimately helpless to change anything. In this parallel universe of smoke and shadows, reality shifts according to your point of view, and there is no such thing as objective truth. Over the last week, my inbox has been flooded with at least 300 emails regarding the last two columns I wrote about the Mumbai attacks. I have been attacked for being naïve, as well as a traitor.. But I have been supported by other readers for calling a spade a spade. So clearly, there has been a very strong reaction to the gruesome events across the border. I had suggested that many Pakistanis are in denial about the extent of the terror networks active on our soil, and the threat they pose to our country. And while we have become accustomed to the growing mayhem they cause within our borders, other countries are not going to put up with their activities when their citizens are slaughtered by them. Despite the conclusive evidence that the recent attacks were launched from Pakistan by Pakistanis, many angry readers have asked me for proof. Others have accused me of betraying my country. Luckily, most of these diatribes have been poorly worded and argued, thus absolving me of the duty to respond. Nevertheless, it is a matter for concern that so many Pakistanis are simply not willing to face the truth. For unless they do, they will not demand the change of policy and direction that gave birth to these terror groups in the first place. However, it is important to remember that Pakistanis are not the only ones given to spinning elaborate conspiracy theories to explain the most straightforward events. For example, millions are convinced to this day that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the CIA and/or Mossad. I even came across a guy who said the Japanese were behind the attacks to avenge the atomic bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Millions believe that Princess Di was killed by the British secret service at the behest of the royal family because she was going to marry a Muslim. Most of these fantasies are harmless parlour games that occupy people with lots of time on their hands. But when a country emerges as a focal point for the global jihad, and people across the world are killed as a result of this terror campaign, clearly responsible leaders are duty bound to take action. And if the leadership of the country concerned is unable or unwilling to act, what is the rest of the world supposed to do? In our case, the establishment responds to international opinion and pressure by pleading that Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism, as President Zardari has said in a recent op-ed piece in the New York Times. This is certainly true, but what are our leaders doing to crush the monsters we have created ourselves? Surely it is not enough to elicit sympathy for our victim status without doing something to change it. Since it is not easy to close our eyes to the reality of terrorism in Pakistan, given the grisly toll it exacts almost daily, many Pakistanis find all kinds of reasons to explain and justify it. These range from Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan, and are seen by both right and left as a legitimate response to western attacks on Muslim lands. Closer to home, the conflict over Kashmir is used to legitimise the actions of groups like the Lashkar-i-Taiba. What many Pakistanis forget is that these terror groups are more lethal for us than they are for other countries. How, for example, would the LeT have furthered the cause of Kashmir by vicious attacks on soft targets in Mumbai? The fact is that in purely tactical terms, the killing of innocent civilians does not gain any cause any support. The ongoing crackdown against a handful of known terrorist leaders and groups will, I fear, result in little except to divert foreign pressure. We have seen that in the past, the same suspects were picked up for brief stints in jail or house arrest, and released as soon as the crisis was over. One problem that we do not examine closely enough is the fact that since Zia’s destructive decade in the 1980s, a climate of religious extremism has come to dominate the national agenda. In this environment, a generation of Pakistanis has grown up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to persecute religious minorities, marginalise women and kill in the name of Islam. It is this acceptance of an extremist mindset that has created limitless space for terror groups to thrive in. Add to this outlook the disputed border with Kashmir and the porous (and also disputed) frontier with Afghanistan, and you get a scenario for sanctioned mayhem. The final ingredient in this lethal cocktail is a tottering economy that is simply not capable of generating gainful employment for millions of young Pakistanis. But the rest of world is not interested in these problems. It wants Pakistan to crack down on terror groups now, and put them out of commission. However, given the lack of a national consensus and the political resolve needed to combat this menace, it is difficult to see the PPP-led government taking strong action, especially if the army is not solidly onside. And here’s the rub: for over two decades, the military and our intelligence agencies have been using many of these militants to fight their proxy wars. Many retired officers have developed personal and ideological links with the groups they handled while in uniform. To expect all this to change overnight is to demand too much of the fledgling democratic government. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081213.htm             _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 20:03:29 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:03:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jaipur public tribunal on "terror in the name of countering terror" Message-ID: Jaipur public tribunal on terror in the name of countering terror By Yoginder Sikand, TwoCircles.net, Last month, the Rajasthan unit of the People's Union for Civil Liberties, along with several other human rights' groups, organised a two-day public hearing in Jaipur on the theme State Responses in the Name of Countering Terrorism and Religious Conversion. It was attended by a large number of activists from various parts of Rajasthan and beyond. In his opening remarks, the noted social activist and scholar Ram Puniyani spoke about how communal violence in India is now being rapidly transformed into organized pogroms against Muslims in which key sections of the state and the media are playing a major role. Condemning all forms of terror, including that engaged in by some fringe Muslim outfits, Puniayni opined that what he called 'Hindutva terrorism' today threatens to take the form of full-blown fascism, which, while ostensibly targeted against Muslims and Christians, actually aims at preserving the status quo in terms of caste/class relations and also in promoting global imperialist forces. Lamenting the silence of the media on 'Hindutva terrorism', he claimed that it was possible that several other terror attacks that India has recently witnessed other than those that occurred in Malegaon could also have been the handiwork of Hindutva groups. He stressed the importance of public tribunals as this one to articulate the voices of the victims of state terror in a context when there was little hope for justice from the courts and the state machinery. 'There now seem to be two different systems of justice in this country', he claimed, arguing that it was increasingly difficult for Muslims, Dalits, Adivasis and the poor in general to gain succour from the courts, the police and the media. Sandeep Pandey Magsaysay Award-winner and social activist from Lucknow Sandeep Pandey spoke at length about what he saw as the deliberate hounding of innocent Muslim youths across the country wrongly accused by the police and intelligence agencies of being involved in acts of terror. He focussed particularly on one case that he has sought to intervene in—that of a Muslim youth from Lucknow, Shahbaz Hussain, who continues to be in jail, accused of being behind the deadly bomb attacks that ripped through Jaipur some months ago. Pandey and some of his colleagues had visited Shahbaz's house and were convinced, so he said, that he was actually innocent. He cited another instance where he had personally intervened to help stop a fake encounter that had been planned by a police officer and an army colonel involving a Kashmiri youth whom they had planned to shoot and then falsely brand as a terrorist. This had been plotted soon after what Pandey called the 'fake Batla House encounter'. The intention, he said, was probably to 'prove' that just as the police in other states were picking up Muslims whom they had accused of as being 'terrorists', the UP police 'wanted to show that they, too, were doing something.' Nilabh Mishra, editor of the Outlook Hindi magazine, echoed somewhat the same sentiments. He accused sections of the media for simply parroting the police version of events in cases of terror attacks for which Muslims were invariably blamed, and remarked how the mounting anti-Muslim prejudices spread by this section of the media was doing irreparable harm to inter-community relations in the country and communalizing vital pillars of the state machinery, including the police and the judiciary. 'This represents an organised effort to hijack the pillars of the establishment', he stressed. Senior Supreme Court advocate Prashant Bhushan remarked about how he believed that 'Hindutva organizations in India enjoy almost unfettered freedom to defy the law, to massacre people in their hundreds, with no action being taken by the state against them.' And, despite this, he added, 'they are referred to as patriots, not as terrorists, which is what they actually are.' He pointed out that Hindutva forces are desperately seeking to export what they call the 'Gujarat model' all mover the country by resorting to terror attacks, blaming them on Muslims and then seeking to galvanise Hindu support. He spoke about the large number of Muslim youths, wrongly accused of being terrorists, who continue to languish in jails. Several incarcerated Muslims, who, when found innocent by the courts and released, do not even get an apology, let alone any compensation for being picked up, imprisoned and even brutally tortured. For the rest of their lives these people are tainted in the eyes of society, and often even their close relatives want to have nothing to do with them for fear of being suspected by the police of being 'terrorist'-sympathisers. Bhushan was bitterly critical of the role of the police, large sections of which, he said, were biased against Muslims and who themselves violate the law that they are meant to uphold. In this regard, he called for the setting up of a high-powered enquiry commission consisting of three retired Supreme Court judges to go into the numerous cases of 'fake' and 'communalised' investigations by the police in terror attacks. He noted that a police complaints authority had been suggested by the Supreme Court some years ago, and remarked that this is yet to be set up. He also called for adequate representation of Muslims and other vulnerable minorities in the police force. In addition, he suggested the need for a high-powered international tribunal to examine the very real threats to secularism and democracy in India. Noted Delhi-based columnist Girish Nikam voiced similar concerns. Reflecting on his own experience of having worked in the 'mainstream' media for several years, he said that the attitude of large sections of the media to the issue of terrorism was 'indefensible', in particular their relative silence on Hindutva terror and their sensational reporting of cases of Muslims being accused of terrorism even in cases when no firm evidence had been brought against them. This reflected what he said was a deep-rooted sentiment held by many that Muslims were to be presumed guilty until proven innocent. And, he added, any critique of this policy is often quickly branded as 'anti-national'. Others who testified at the tribunal included Kavita Srivastava, head of the Rajasthan unit of the PUCL, Tej Kumar, an advocate who has taken up the case of some Rajasthani Muslim youth accused of as terrorists, as well as several men and women from various parts of Rajasthan whose relatives continue to languish in jail and some others who had been arrested on false charges but were later released. ** Public tribunals like this one serve a valuable purpose, enabling victims to articulate their voices when these continue to go unheard in the corridors of power. However, given the fact that, particularly in the wake of the recent Mumbai attacks, the issue of terrorism has assumed alarming proportions and the role of fringe radical Islamist terror in fomenting strife in India groups cannot be ignored, it is imperative that human rights groups take a broader and more balanced perspective. While state terror and terror unleashed by Hindutva groups rightly deserve to be condemned, for us to turn a blind eye to terror engaged by radical Islamist groups is not just unacceptable, unfair and unethical, but also, from the point of view of our joint struggle against all forms of terror, which feed on each other, extremely counter-productive. From sanachanna at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 21:24:13 2008 From: sanachanna at gmail.com (Sana Rizvi) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:54:13 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] TERROR ATTACK ON MUMBAI - by Anand Patwardhan In-Reply-To: <874050.87767.qm@web53404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <627900.71366.qm@web54005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <874050.87767.qm@web53404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42643eb70812150754n3858e7c6v153c8859d615d2ab@mail.gmail.com> -- dear all this got rejected by times of india and hindustan times has sat on it for 9 days. if u find it useful, do circulate. best, anand *TERROR ATTACK ON MUMBAI * ** Terror: The Aftermath The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame game and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm our police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the USA did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us further into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives on reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge. *The External Terror * Those who invoke America need only to analyze if its actions after 9/11 increased or decreased global terror. It invaded oil-rich Iraq fully knowing that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, killing over 200,000 Iraqis citizens but allowing a cornered Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan. It recruited global support for Islamic militancy, which began to be seen as a just resistance against American mass murder. Which begs the question of who created Bin Laden in the first place, armed the madarsas of Pakistan and rejuvenated the concept of Islamic jehad? Israel played its own role in stoking the fires of jehad. The very creation of Israel in 1948 robbed Palestinians of their land, an act that Mahatma Gandhi to his credit deplored at the time as an unjust way to redress the wrongs done to Jews during the Holocaust. What followed has been a slow and continuing attack on the Palestinian nation. At first Palestinian resistance was led by secular forces represented by Yasser Arafat but as these were successfully undermined, Islamic forces took over the mantle. The first, largely non-violent Intifada was crushed, a second more violent one replaced it and when all else failed, human bombs appeared. Thirty years ago when I first went abroad there were two countries my Indian passport forbade me to visit. One was racist South Africa. The other was Israel. We were non-aligned and stood for disarmament and world peace. Today Israel and America are our biggest military allies. Is it surprising that we are on the jehadi hit list? Israel, America and other prosperous countries can to an extent protect themselves against the determined jehadi, but can India put an impenetrable shield over itself? Remember that when attackers are on a suicide mission, the strongest shields have crumbled. New York was laid low not with nuclear weapons but with a pair of box cutters. India is for many reasons a quintessentially soft target. Our huge population, vast landmass and coastline are impossible to protect. The rich may build new barricades. The Taj and the Oberoi can be made safer. So can our airports and planes. Can our railway stations and trains, bus stops, busses, markets and lanes do the same? *The Terror Within* The threat of terror in India does not come exclusively from the outside. Apart from being hugely populated by the poor India is also a country divided, not just between rich and poor, but by religion, caste and language. This internal divide is as potent a breeding ground for terror as jehadi camps abroad. Nor is jehad the copyright of one religion alone. It can be argued that international causes apart, India has jehadis that are fully home grown. Perhaps the earliest famous one was Nathuram Godse who acting at the behest of his mentor Vinayak Savarkar (still referred to as "Veer" or "brave" although he refused to own up to his role in the conspiracy), murdered Mahatma Gandhi for the crime of championing Muslims. Jump forward to 6th December, 1992, the day Hindu fanatics demolished the Babri Mosque setting into motion a chain of events that still wreaks havoc today. From the Bombay riots of 1992 to the bomb blasts of 1993, the Gujarat pogroms of 2002 and hundreds of smaller deadly events, the last 16 years have been the bloodiest since Partition. Action has been followed by reaction in an endless cycle of escalating retribution. At the core on the Hindu side of terror are organizations that openly admire Adolph Hitler, nursing the hate of historic wrongs inflicted by Muslims. Ironically these votaries of Hitler remain friends and admirers of Israel. On the Muslim side of terror are scores of disaffected youth, many of whom have seen their families tortured and killed in more recent pogroms. Christians too have fallen victim to recent Hindutva terror but as yet not formed the mechanisms for revenge. Dalits despite centuries of caste oppression, have not yet retaliated in violence although a small fraction is being drawn into an armed struggle waged by Naxalites. It is clear that no amount of spending on defense, no amount of patrolling the high seas, no amount of increasing the military and police and equipping them with the latest weaponry can end the cycle of violence or place India under a bubble of safety. Just as nuclear India did not lead to more safety, but only to a nuclear Pakistan, no amount of homeland security can save us. And inviting Israel's Mossad and America's CIA/FBI to the security table is like giving the anti-virus contract to those who spread the virus in the first place. It can only make us more of a target for the next determined jehadi attack. *Policing, Justice and the Media* As for draconian anti-terror laws, they too only breed terror as for the most part they are implemented by a State machinery that has imbibed majoritarian values. So in Modi's Gujarat after the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in 2002, despite scores of confessions to rape and murder captured on hidden camera, virtually no Hindu extremists were punished while thousands of Muslims rotted in jail under draconian laws. The same happened in Bombay despite the Shiv Sena being found guilty by the Justice Shrikrishna Commission. Under pressure a few cases were finally brought to trial but all escaped with the lightest of knuckle raps. In stark contrast many Muslims accused in the 1993 bomb blasts were given death sentences. The bulk of our media, policing and judicial systems swallows the canard that Muslims are by nature violent. Removing democratic safeguards guaranteed by the Constitution can only make this worse. Every act of wrongful imprisonment and torture that then follows is likely to turn innocents into material for future terrorists to draw upon. Already the double standards are visible. While the Students Islamic Movement of India is banned, Hindutva outfits like the RSS, the VHP, the Bajrang Dal, and the Shiv Sena remain legal entities. The leader of the MNS, Raj Thackeray recently openly spread such hatred that several north Indians were killed by lynch mobs. Amongst these were the Dube brothers, doctors from Kalyan who treated the poor for a grand fee of Rs.10 per patient. Raj Thackeray like his uncle Bal before him, remains free after issuing public threats that Bombay would burn if anyone had the guts to arrest him. Modi remains free despite the pogroms of Gujarat. Congress party murderers of Sikhs in 1984 remain free. Justice in India is clearly not there for all. Increasing the powers of the police cannot solve this problem. Only honest and unbiased implementation of laws that exist, can. It is a tragedy of the highest proportions that one such honest policeman, Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who had begun to unravel the thread of Hindutva terror was himself gunned down, perhaps by Muslim terror. It is reported that Col. Purohit and fellow Hindutva conspirators now in judicial custody, celebrated the news of Karkare's death. Until Karkare took charge, the Malegaon bomb blasts in which Muslims were killed and the Samjhauta Express blasts in which Pakistani visitors to India were killed were being blamed on Muslims. Karkare exposed a hitherto unknown Hindutva outfit as masterminding a series of killer blasts across the country. For his pains Karkare came under vicious attack not just from militant Hindutva but from the mainstream BJP. He was under tremendous pressure to prove his patriotism. Was it this that led this senior officer to don helmet and ill-fitting bullet proof vest and rush into battle with a pistol? Or was it just his natural instinct, the same courage that had led him against all odds, to expose Hindutva terror? Whatever it was, it only underlines the fact that jehadis of all kinds are actually allies of each other. So Bin Laden served George Bush and vice-versa. So Islamic and Hindutva jehadis have served each other for years. Do they care who dies? Of the 200 people killed in the last few days by Islamic jehadis, a high number were Muslims. Many were waiting to board trains to celebrate Eid in their hometowns in UP and Bihar, when their co-religionists gunned them down. Shockingly the media has not commented on this, nor focused on the tragedy at the railway station, choosing to concentrate on tragedies that befell the well-to-do. And it is the media that is leading the charge to turn us into a war-mongering police state where we may lead lives with an illusion of safety, but with the certainty of joylessness. I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places and at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is accompanied by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and humanity, when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of "patriots" and zealots. *Anand Patwardhan* November 2008 HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Dec 15 23:06:21 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:36:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] aids for Kashmiris/non kashmiris .......well done Mr. Nazir Josh In-Reply-To: <835706.2435.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <835706.2435.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That was interesting .What all one could make out from the recording - a commendable performance by Mr. Nazir Josh. We have had a very rich tradition of satire & humour in Kashmir. Veteran Late Mr.Pushkar Bhan actually brought humour in to the day to day lives of Kashmiri masses through his satire on relevant social issues & on the issues of governance. His Radio features ‘Machama’ as well as the series ‘Zuna Dab’ used to be immensely popular. Alas, past two decades of pan Islamism inspired violence has among other things also cast a shadow on the cultural & art activities of Kashmiris in general. Mr. Nazir Josh is doing a great job in trying to keep humour alive even under the prevailing uncertain times. Regards all LA> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:49:39 -0800> From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] > > > > http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvb3EVxBuQ> Nazir Josh performance in Delhi on Youtube...> > > for those who face language disability ...the song goes:> > Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo...> Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo...> > praris osukh zan khari farman sahbo..> Zan osuk tchapyaw khyomut trambaan sahbo...> Az kal chuk sone sike zan chakraan sahbo> Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo> > selli manz yeli osukh teli zan osukh moomut> Tankha ponsan peth osukh machran khyomut> Az chukh sarkary khazanay paan sahbo> Kath onmay eez peth nazraan sahbo> > Bab osuy dul hyeth neraan bate sombrawaan> Menz menz os dargah wati peth tremi thawaan> Az chukh yemi shahruk bod insaan sahbo> Kath on may eez peth nazraan sahbo... > > Translated in English:> > I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib!> I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib!> > The other day you were a 'khari farmaan' (untranslatable Kashmiri slang) sahib> You then resembled a badly bitten copper vessel sahib> Now you fling gold coins in the air sahib> I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib!> > While you were in the cell you were as good as dead> You had to live off your meagre salary and were smitten by flies> Now you are the the sarkari treasury in person sahib> I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib!> > You father used to collect rice door-to-door in a begging bowl> At times he even used spread out a huge plate in Hazratbal soliciting alms> Now you are a respectible citizen of this town sahib> I bring you a sheep as an eid gift sahib!> > > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Register once and play all contests. Increase your scores with bonus credits for logging in daily on MSN. http://specials.msn.co.in/msncontest/index.aspx From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 01:01:38 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:31:38 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <674118.94741.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0812112203g5604dcecke76841b5daa0e32f@mail.gmail.com> <674118.94741.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812151131i6bfa74edob6a5551052b10f86@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Kshmendra, This statement helps. I'll quote two well known couplets/rubaaee 1. here is iqbal, somewhat modernist: nehaayat rangeen o saadaa hai daastaan e haram intiha hai jis ki hussain, ibtidaa hai ismail (urdu) this the reference to the sacrifice of Ibrahim of his son Ismail (marking bakr eid) - the beginning of the story of the house (kaabaa / house of Abraham) - being brought to completion by the sacrifice of hussain, family and friends - that it is colorful with blood and simple in its connection/intent. 2. here is khwaja moeen uddin chishti ajmeri shaah ast hussain, baadshaah ast hussain deen ast hussain, deen panaah ast hussain sar daad na daad dast dar dast e yazid haqqa ke binaa e la ilah ast hussain (farsi) hussain is king, correct belief and saviour of the faith / gave his head but not his hand in yazid's / true (haqqa) it is that hussain is not without (binaa) no god (la ilah) these two gentlemen are well known sunnis although liable to be labeled shia. among sufis as i mentioned in the earlier email, certain naqshbandi strains are anti-shia" - others are sympathetic, and take their spiritual line directly from Ali, while being sunni. some take it to Abu bakr, the naqshbandi admit their violence'/rashness in thought may be due to Umar's 'vein'. Shah Wali ullah a naqshbandi sunni accepted the shias as a school of thought among muslims along with the sunni schools. so tolerance and spiritual affiliation are the determinants. Although it is true that a group formed around Ali (later shian e ali) during the prophets lifetime - while Ali prepared the prophet''s body for burial, the other fellows were meeting to appoint the 1st caliph - there is also the reverence for the ahle-baith (people of the house) - around which the controversy was spread about which wives/families were included in the prophet's house reference. most sunni sources (such as tabari) also point to ali, fatima, hasan and hussain (never in doubt), while some give the alternatives which include umme salma, or even aisha. With reference to your other interesting mail about the non-existence of mohammad, because the first biography was much later, and authencity of versions were then pinned around the 'science of men'(ilm ur rijal) or really the science of the geneologies and characters of transmitters of knowledge. it was during this time that Muwayia acccelerated his campaign to sway opinion in his favour through a proliferation of hadiths. Yazid's father's (Muawiya) father was Abu sufyan, a meccan chief who sought to regain the power he had lost to muslims and mohammad, by accepting islam a little later after giving up the city of mecca peacefully. Ali and Mohammad, first cousins belonged to the Hashim clan which abu sufyan and later muawiya sought to displace and make the caliphate their own - which they did. In the sunni traditional narrative the chapter of the pious caliphs (khulafa e rashideen) closes at the 4th, Ali. With Muawiya and later Yazid it is clear that the state, now no longer led by pious men, in which there is much chaos and dissension, is no longer a caliphate in spirit. This was also hussains refusal' to yazid. Maududi, the well known but non-traditional scholar (and founder of Jamaat e Islaami, the political party) makes a similar point in his book Khilafat aur Malookiat. On the other hand, Ibne Khaldun's argument is for continuity of state and the challenge to it. In this light Hussain is a rebel to challenge yazid and the state, and so meets his end. this is the only argument i have come across which can be argued aginst hussain, and it finds its adherents. there are also arguments against shia common practices from which retrogressive heresy is argued. that is a problem for the shias themselves too, as many shia scholars argue against harming oneself, bloodletting, etc, and against some rituals which taunt the sunnis... so basically what i am saying is that most sunnis also own hussain, in which the relative importance of karbala to islam is put to question (as compared to the shias), with the exception of that school of thought within sunnis which considers hussain a rebel and shias apostates. what are their numbers, i dont know. aslo, I have'nt heard the Naik and Israr statements myself, but i know this generates heat, also Ghamdi on geo tv. where would they fit exactly is also difficult, without actual views i have seen/heard in some detail. There is no question about respect for Ali among Sunnis. I agree the controversy over Mohammad/hussain's hair would be serious and would generate heat, not because hussain is not liked but because the versions are so different. but i have no idea. The origins of Laal Shahbaaz in Sehwan are also differently told: historians say it is central asia (transoxania, mawra un nahr oxus), but pop belief among shias says that he is descended from the imams (obviously an attempt to make him their own), unlike abdullah shah in Karachi, who actually (probably) is. btw i heard that the prophets hair in the baadshahi mosque in lahore was loaned to the shah of brunei or somewhere to take to his country and then bring it back after some time. it came back but since then it has gone missing .... needless to say it is a commentary on the state of affairs in pakistan..... best ps: have been busy elsewhere getting educated :) On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > Perhaps I should have put it differently and said that "Hussain is one of > the most important personages for Shias and carries a significance in Shia > Islamic annals much greater than in the Sunni ones" > > Consequently it would be quite a comedown for the Sunni control over > Hazratbal to be told that the "Hair Relic" is of Hussain and not Mohammed. > The Shias would want 'control' over it. > > Of course you know that 'Ashura' (10th day of the month Muharram when > Hussain was killed in Karbala) carries distinctly separate significance for > the Shias and Sunnis. That in no small means is because of the separate > significance Hussain himself carries for the Shias and the Sunnis. > > You would also know about the controversies surrounding the comments of Dr > Zakir Naik and Dr Israr Ahmed about Yazid and Ali. Would you add the 2 to > your "jihadist / extremist" list? > > The divide between the Shias and Sunnis runs much deeper than Hussain. > With Ali at the fonthead of that divide, would you argue over (subsequent to > various struggles over who should be the Khalifa) the divide > getting concretised in the Battle of Karbala between Yazid and Hussain and > Hussain's death? > > If that is so, and with Yazid (alongwith Muaviyah sworn enemy of Hussain's > father Ali) as Sunni and Hussain as Shian-e-Ali how could one possibly > conclude that Hussain is not firmly on tha Shia side of the Sunni/Shia > divide? > > Perhaps you know better. > > I totally agree with you that (perhaps) most Muslims are in the 'consensual > middle' and that is how it should be. > > Since the thread started over the "Hair Relic", it was not farfetched to > look at the passions any such controversy would evoke from the 'extreme > positions'. > > Wish you would participate oftener. I have the selfish motive of wanting to > get educated. > > Take care > > Kshmendra > > > > > On *Fri, 12/12/08, yasir ~يا سر * wrote: > > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM > > > Dear Kashmendra, > > I dont know the the history of the Hazratbal hair. but you are overstating > or even misstating the shia sunni divide on the question of Hussain. > > Most sunnis revere Hussain and his fight to death against Yazid son of > Muawiya. During the Muharram month/s you will hear Sunni sermons eulogizing > the sacrifice and mourning the deaths of the prophet's family and friends. > The account of the events by Zainul abedin (the next Imam, and Hussain's > son) of the events is read as a text in sunni religious seminaries. Sunnis > may also participate with Taziyas and attend 'Shia' Majalis, or just watch > them on TV etc. They may or may not accord the same level of reverence to > karbala as shias, some of whom also go overboard with the case. > > That said, there are certain sunni sub-sects, among them particularly the > ahle Hadith (aka wahhabi), and certain historical naqshbandis (mujaddid alf > saani) who may consider shias heretics, kaafirs etc, virtually on par with > deniers such as 'hindus'. I dont think this strain is the most common > although occasionally one runs into them - most are in the consensual > middle. Not surprisingly this strain (the tendency you have described) is > around in jihadist / extremist outfits. > > best > > From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 01:02:20 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:32:20 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] "It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed" - A Theory In-Reply-To: References: <310153.62194.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812151132t5d104f82hfe75fbc19d9dc4fb@mail.gmail.com> I agree. a dose of scepticism is necessary for good scholarship, let alone faith. with islam under scrutiny and faced with endless harangues, this kind of thinking i am sure will provoke new healthier ways of looking at the subject On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > Thank you for posting this interesting article. While the Prophet > Muhammad's life and career as a religious teacher is very well > documented, I would not dismiss the work of Prof. Kalisch off hand. > Even if I did not agree with him. And I do not disbelieve that he is > a pious Muslim either. Religious faith (or the lack thereof) is a > matter of inner conviction, not of outer demonstration. > > I know that I am stepping into delicate territory, but the standards > of textual and historical criticism of biographical sources on which > the 'faith' in the events that constitute the career of the prophet > we have come to know as Muhammad are not exactly watertight. What > emerges from the mist of a cluster of narratives are the details of > the life of an exemplary, deeply human, and humane person, who is > given the name Muhammad. I have been enriched by reading several > biographical narratives of this life and career, but have always come > away with the feeling that what we know about what lies behind the > biography pales in comparison to what we do not know, and may never > know. > > But whether that person (the one millions revere as the prophet > Muhammad) is one person, or, whether the events, details and > attributes are a portmanteau collection of the details of several > similar people, or ,whether they are in the nature of 'lived' desires > and projections, all of these remain an open question to me. Further, > we can also ask whether the record as it exists papers over and > actually simplifies a far more complex and rich life.I choose the > version that give me a deeply spiritual man of the world, a fair, > balanced, reasonable man, often torn by doubt, a full blooded man who > was kind, just and delighted in the company of men, women and > children. A man who never denied, like many other religious figures > did, the coursing of desire in our bodies, but always asked how best > to harness desire so that it fulfills rather than erodes our capacity > to live well. Who preached peace and fought a good fight, when all > else failed. I say this as a non-muslim, even as an unbeliever. But > this image of a life, does not become any less important for me, if > it is proven that it does not add up to the life of an acutal person. > I may believe it does, but supposing it did not, the lessons of the > narrative would still remain vital and urgent, for believer as well, > I believe, for the non-believer. > > There are large gaps, inconsistencies and frayed edges in this > record. And it is possible in some ways to have many different, and > not always internally consistent versions of the prophets life, > actions and career. > > The same is true if we speak of figures like Jesus, or Moses, or > indeed the Buddha. This should not lead us to hold these > 'biographies' in any disdain. Just to acknowledge the limits of our > own understanding especially when dealing with threads of narrative > that have in some instances grown fragile with time. I have often > wondered how we can reconcile the free spirited Krishna of the > Vrindavan and Mathura years, whom I love, with the wily strategist of > the Mahabharata (whom I am ambivalent about) are there two, three, > many Krishnas? Is Krishna a richly imagined and wondrous place-holder > for all manner of conduct and speculations, ranging from the bower to > the battlefield. These are questions that I believe, should not be > thrown away and dismissed. Sometimes they can be engaging and rewarding. > > The field of textual and hermeneutic criticism in Islamic studies, > long dormant, is just beginning to open up, and what it needs most of > all is debate, discussion and research. As someone with an active > interest in the study of Islamic history, I can state that the > greatest obstacle has been contemporary Islamic orthodoxy's disregard > for (and tuning its back on) the high standards of criticism, > interpretative skill and analytical rigour that were the hall mark of > debates in Islamic theological hermeneutics and exegesis in early > medieval times. > > Maybe Prof. Kalisch's work can serve as a provocation to get people > in Islamic studies more determinedly back on the track of useful > research and investigation, even if in order to disprove his > propositions. Whatever the case may be, I think these are questions > that have to be pursued with reason and debate and research, not with > calls to attack on the tired basis of 'injured' religious sentiments. > > I condemn any attack on the work and academic liberty of Prof. > Kalisch, no matter which quarter it comes from. > > regards > > Shuddha > > > On 16-Nov-08, at 7:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > This is absolutely the most bizzare thing I have read in a very > > long time. If it were not the WSJ carrying this article, I would > > have laughed it off as yet another prank or cheap gutter propaganda. > > > > It is akin to hearing someone say that "Man did not land on the > > Moon" or "The Twin Towers were brought down on 9/11 by the USA > > itself". > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > NOVEMBER 15, 2008 > > "Professor Hired for Outreach to Muslims Delivers a Jolt" > > "Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad > > Never Existed" > > By ANDREW HIGGINS > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122669909279629451.html#printMode > > > > MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and > > Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the > > Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women > > and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, > > guides his life. > > > > So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced > > the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet > > Muhammad probably never existed. > > > > > > Muslims, not surprisingly, are outraged. Even Danish cartoonists > > who triggered global protests a couple of years ago didn't portray > > the Prophet as fictional. German police, worried about a violent > > backlash, told the professor to move his religious-studies center > > to more-secure premises. > > "We had no idea he would have ideas like this," says Thomas Bauer, > > a fellow academic at Münster University who sat on a committee that > > appointed Prof. Kalisch. "I'm a more orthodox Muslim than he is, > > and I'm not a Muslim." > > > > When Prof. Kalisch took up his theology chair four years ago, he > > was seen as proof that modern Western scholarship and Islamic ways > > can mingle -- and counter the influence of radical preachers in > > Germany. He was put in charge of a new program at Münster, one of > > Germany's oldest and most respected universities, to train teachers > > in state schools to teach Muslim pupils about their faith. > > > > Muslim leaders cheered and joined an advisory board at his Center > > for Religious Studies. Politicians hailed the appointment as a sign > > of Germany's readiness to absorb some three million Muslims into > > mainstream society. But, says Andreas Pinkwart, a minister > > responsible for higher education in this north German region, "the > > results are disappointing." > > > > Prof. Kalisch, who insists he's still a Muslim, says he knew he > > would get in trouble but wanted to subject Islam to the same > > scrutiny as Christianity and Judaism. German scholars of the 19th > > century, he notes, were among the first to raise questions about > > the historical accuracy of the Bible. > > > > Many scholars of Islam question the accuracy of ancient sources on > > Muhammad's life. The earliest biography, of which no copies > > survive, dated from roughly a century after the generally accepted > > year of his death, 632, and is known only by references to it in > > much later texts. But only a few scholars have doubted Muhammad's > > existence. Most say his life is better documented than that of Jesus. > > > > > > > > "Of course Muhammad existed," says Tilman Nagel, a scholar in > > Göttingen and author of a new book, "Muhammad: Life and Legend." > > The Prophet differed from the flawless figure of Islamic tradition, > > Prof. Nagel says, but "it is quite astonishing to say that > > thousands and thousands of pages about him were all forged" and > > there was no such person. > > > > All the same, Prof. Nagel has signed a petition in support of Prof. > > Kalisch, who has faced blistering criticism from Muslim groups and > > some secular German academics. "We are in Europe," Prof. Nagel > > says. "Education is about thinking, not just learning by heart." > > Prof. Kalisch's religious studies center recently removed a sign > > and erased its address from its Web site. The professor, a burly 42- > > year-old, says he has received no specific threats but has been > > denounced as apostate, a capital offense in some readings of Islam. > > "Maybe people are speculating that some idiot will come and cut off > > my head," he said during an interview in his study. > > > > A few minutes later, an assistant arrived in a panic to say a > > suspicious-looking digital clock had been found lying in the > > hallway. Police, called to the scene, declared the clock harmless. > > > > A convert to Islam at age 15, Prof. Kalisch says he was drawn to > > the faith because it seemed more rational than others. He embraced > > a branch of Shiite Islam noted for its skeptical bent. After > > working briefly as a lawyer, he began work in 2001 on a > > postdoctoral thesis in Islamic law in Hamburg, to go through the > > elaborate process required to become a professor in Germany. > > > > The Sept. 11 attacks in the U.S. that year appalled Mr. Kalisch but > > didn't dent his devotion. Indeed, after he arrived at Münster > > University in 2004, he struck some as too conservative. Sami > > Alrabaa, a scholar at a nearby college, recalls attending a lecture > > by Prof. Kalisch and being upset by his doctrinaire defense of > > Islamic law, known as Sharia. > > In private, he was moving in a different direction. He devoured > > works questioning the existence of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Then > > "I said to myself: You've dealt with Christianity and Judaism but > > what about your own religion? Can you take it for granted that > > Muhammad existed?" > > > > He had no doubts at first, but slowly they emerged. He was struck, > > he says, by the fact that the first coins bearing Muhammad's name > > did not appear until the late 7th century -- six decades after the > > religion did. > > > > He traded ideas with some scholars in Saarbrücken who in recent > > years have been pushing the idea of Muhammad's nonexistence. They > > claim that "Muhammad" wasn't the name of a person but a title, and > > that Islam began as a Christian heresy. > > > > Prof. Kalisch didn't buy all of this. Contributing last year to a > > book on Islam, he weighed the odds and called Muhammad's existence > > "more probable than not." By early this year, though, his thinking > > had shifted. "The more I read, the historical person at the root of > > the whole thing became more and more improbable," he says. > > > > He has doubts, too, about the Quran. "God doesn't write books," > > Prof. Kalisch says. > > Some of his students voiced alarm at the direction of his teaching. > > "I began to wonder if he would one day say he doesn't exist > > himself," says one. A few boycotted his lectures. Others sang his > > praises. > > > > Prof. Kalisch says he "never told students 'just believe what > > Kalisch thinks' " but seeks to teach them to think independently. > > Religions, he says, are "crutches" that help believers get to "the > > spiritual truth behind them." To him, what matters isn't whether > > Muhammad actually lived but the philosophy presented in his name. > > > > This summer, the dispute hit the headlines. A Turkish-language > > German newspaper reported on it with gusto. Media in the Muslim > > world picked up on it. > > > > Germany's Muslim Coordinating Council withdrew from the advisory > > board of Prof. Kalisch's center. Some Council members refused to > > address him by his adopted Muslim name, Muhammad, saying that he > > should now be known as Sven. > > > > German academics split. Michael Marx, a Quran scholar at the Berlin- > > Brandenburg Academy of Sciences, warned that Prof. Kalisch's views > > would discredit German scholarship and make it difficult for German > > scholars to work in Muslim lands. But Ursula Spuler-Stegemann, an > > Islamic studies scholar at the University of Marburg, set up a Web > > site called solidaritymuhammadkalisch.com and started an online > > petition of support. > > Alarmed that a pioneering effort at Muslim outreach was only > > stoking antagonism, Münster University decided to douse the flames. > > Prof. Kalisch was told he could keep his professorship but must > > stop teaching Islam to future school teachers. > > > > The professor says he's more determined than ever to keep probing > > his faith. He is finishing a book to explain his thoughts. It's in > > English instead of German because he wants to make a bigger impact. > > "I'm convinced that what I'm doing is necessary. There must be a > > free discussion of Islam," he says. > > > > —Almut Schoenfeld in Berlin contributed to this article. > > Write to Andrew Higgins at andrew.higgins at wsj.com > > > > > > TRANSLATED EXCERPTS FROM THE ARTICLE IN GERMAN BY Muhammad Sven > > Kalisch >>>>>> > > > > NOVEMBER 14, 2008, 8:10 P.M. ET > > "Excerpt: Muslim Academic Questions Muhammad's Existence" > > "Below are translated excerpts from an article in German entitled, > > "Islamic Theology Without the Historic Muhammad -- Comments on the > > Challenges of the Historical-Critical Method for Islamic Thinking," > > by Germany's Prof. Muhammad Kalisch, a Muslim." > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122633888141714211.html#printMode > > > > > > Up to some time ago I was convinced that Muhammad was a historical > > figure. Although I always based my thinking on the assumption that > > the Islamic historical narrative regarding Muhammad was very > > unreliable, I had no doubts that at least the basic lines of his > > biography were historically correct. > > > > I have now moved away from this position and will soon publish a > > book in which I will, among other things, comment on this question > > and explain my arguments in more detail. This essay is only a short > > summary of my most important arguments. It also deals with the > > question of what implications historical-critical research has for > > the Islamic theory and how I deal with my research results as a > > theologian. > > > > With regard to the historical existence of Muhammad ... I consider > > my position simply as a continuation of the most recent research > > results. It appears so spectacular only because it has been said by > > a Muslim ... Most Western scientists turn down such an hypotheses > > out of respect for Islam or because they are afraid of the > > reactions of their Muslim friends or because they think it is > > speculative nonsense. > > > > The word "respect" sounds wonderful but it is completely > > inappropriate here because one really refers to the opposite. > > Whoever thinks that Muslims can't deal with facts puts Muslims on > > the same level as small children who can't think and decide for > > themselves and whose illusions of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny > > one doesn't want to destroy. > > > > Whoever really bases his thoughts on the equality of all human > > beings must expect the same intellectual performance. Really > > treating Muslims with respect would imply that they are strong > > enough to deal with their religion on the basis of our modern level > > of knowledge. "Islamophobes" think we Muslims are barbarians, the > > "kind-hearted" take us for "noble savages"... The result is the > > same: Muslims are seen as different from the rest of the world -- > > they either belong in a "petting zoo" or in cages for wild animals, > > but by all means they belong in a zoo. > > > > The final argument is even more awful because it can only be > > described as cowardly. Religious fundamentalists are spreading out > > (not only Islamic fundamentalist) and freedom of thought must be > > defended no matter what. There must not be any compromise on this > > otherwise we set the track for a retreat into the Middle Ages and > > this can happen much faster than many people think. > > > > My position with regard to the historical existence of Muhammad is > > that I believe neither his existence nor his non-existence can be > > proven. I, however, lean towards the non-existence but I don't > > think it can be proven. It is my impression that, unless there are > > some sensational archeological discoveries -- an Islamic "Qumran" > > or "Nag Hammadi" -- the question of Muhammad's existence will > > probably never be finally clarified. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 16 01:08:59 2008 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:38:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] 9 Is Not 11: (And November isn't September) by Arundhati Roy Message-ID: <107170.66458.qm@web27902.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> 9 Is Not 11 (And November isn't September) ARUNDHATI ROY We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching "India's 9/11". And like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, even though we know it's all been said and done before. As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned Pakistan that if it didn't act fast to arrest the 'Bad Guys' he had personal information that India would launch air strikes on 'terrorist camps' in Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's 9/11. But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that we can arrive at our own conclusions. It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn Kupwara—one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously means something's going very badly wrong in this country. If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre. We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically, one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said 'Hungry, kya?' (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't that war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Lalgarh in West Bengal; in Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa; and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities. That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal with the one that is. There is a fierce, unforgiving fault line that runs through the contemporary discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who see terrorism, especially 'Islamist' terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with the world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or even try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself.Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, it exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Toiba (Army of the Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, certainly bolster the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy, and believes that jehad should be waged until Islam, hisIslam, rules the world. Among the things he has said are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." And, "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the Hindus, just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire...we hacked, burned, set on fire...we believe in setting them on fire because these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it.... I have just one last wish...let me be sentenced to death.... I don't care if I'm hanged...just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs of these people stay.... I will finish them off...let a few more of them die...at least twenty-five thousand to fifty thousand should die." And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or Our Nationhood Defined by M.S. Golwalkar 'Guruji', who became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening." Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races—the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here...a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by." Of course, Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu Right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in Orissa, Christians were the target of two-and-a-half months of violence which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from their homes, half of whom now live in refugee camps. All these years, Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which many believe is a front organisation for the Lashkar-e-Toiba. He continued to recruit young boys for his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11, the UN imposed sanctions on the Jamaat-ud-Dawa and the Pakistani government succumbed to international pressure, putting Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and continues to live the life of a respectable man in Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide, he left the VHP to join the Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate houses, Reliance and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, has recently said, "Modi is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted.The RSS has 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and seven million volunteers preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, but also former prime minister A.B. Vajpayee, current Leader of the Opposition L.K. Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and intelligence officers. And if that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations within India preaching their own narrow bigotry. So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick Side B. We need context. Always. In this nuclear subcontinent, that context is Partition. The Radcliffe Line which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was drawn virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million people—Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new kind of India—left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, hate, horror, but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of the Pure, became an Islamic republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, violent military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea of India even before it was born. By 1990, they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992, Hindu mobs exhorted by L.K. Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998, the BJP was in power at the Centre. The US War on Terror put the wind in their sails. It allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and then present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international finance, and it was in the interests of international corporations and the media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. That gave Hindu Nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the subcontinent, and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Toiba is from Shimla (India) and L.K. Advani of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). In much the same way as it did after the 2001 Parliament attack, the 2002 burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2006 bombing of the Samjhauta Express, the Government of India announced that it has 'incontrovertible' evidence that the Lashkar-e-Toiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies, the Lashkar operates in India through an organisation called the 'Indian Mujahideen'. Two Indian nationals—Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working for the Jammu and Kashmir Police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Calcutta in West Bengal—have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy.Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated global network of foot-soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives, working not just on both sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries simultaneously. In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike and isolate it within the borders of a single nation-state is very much like trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost impossible. In circumstances like these, air strikes to 'take out' terrorist camps may take out the camps, but certainly will not 'take out' the terrorists. And neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try not to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, were trained by the Indian army.) Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally, first in its war in support of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war against them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these contradictions, is careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jehad against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI to nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organisations. Having wired up these Frankenstein's monsters and released them into the world, the US expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in the heart of the Homeland on September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently re-made. Now the debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training camps, the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their ire rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if not more, than it does on India. If at this point India decides to go to war, perhaps the descent of the whole region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. If Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of 'non-state actors' with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as neighbours. It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country by inviting the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has agents. On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at 'ground zero' kept up an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights, we watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns and gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National Security Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered nation. While they did this, they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, caste, religion or nationality.Part of the helplessness of the security forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole buildings are blown up. Human shields are used. (The US and Israeli armies don't hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was different. And it was on TV. The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill—and be killed—mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something different from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people have grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, not minutes, what that's worth. Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the stand-off, the terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we say 'Nothing can justify terrorism', what most of us mean is that nothing can justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea what to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, they've journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the attackers, who called himself 'Imran Babar'. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things contained in the 'terror e-mails' that were sent out before several other bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you surrender?" "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better to live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, why didn't it matter to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism is a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the Big Picture, individuals don't figure in its calculations except as collateral damage. It has always been a part of—and often even the aim of—terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden fault lines. The blood of 'martyrs' irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism is not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be a catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, a tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its acts of bestiality is Live TV.Even as the Mumbai terrorists were being condemned by TV anchors, the effectiveness of their action was magnified a thousand-fold by TV broadcasts. Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in India at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead, we had retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes unless their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and each state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death of former prime minister V.P. Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and villain of upper-caste Hindus, pass without a mention. We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous 'Why They Hate Us' speech. His analysis of why "religious bigots, both Hindu and Muslim", hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and an indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after 9/11? Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and left-wing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians, all politicians, glorifying the police and the army, and virtually asking for a police state. It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The era of 'pickings' is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. Dangerous, stupid television flash cards like the Police are Good, Politicians are Bad/ Chief Executives are Good, Chief Ministers are Bad/ Army is Good, Government is Bad/ India is Good, Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about by TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost uncontrollable hysteria. Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when people in India were beginning to see that the business of terrorism is a hall of mirrors in which victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last 20 years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still learning. (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look as though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) It was after the 2001 Parliament attack that the first serious questions began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including S.A.R. Geelani, the man whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, Shaukat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence.The Supreme Court upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In its judgement, the court acknowledged that there was no proof that Mohammad Afzal belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, "The collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender. " Even today we don't really know who the terrorists that attacked Indian Parliament were and who they worked for. More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial 'encounter' at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell of the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat under seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An Assistant Commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the Parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of India's many 'encounter specialists', known and rewarded for having summarily executed several 'terrorists'. There was an outcry against the Special Cell from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local community to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, academics and activists, all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. In response, the BJP and L.K. Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a 'Braveheart' and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had dared to question the integrity of the police, saying it was 'suicidal' and calling them 'anti-national'. Of course, there has been no inquiry. Only days after the Batla House event, another story about 'terrorists' surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to the court, the CBI said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the Batla House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2 kg of RDX and two pistols on them, and then arrested them as 'terrorists' who belonged to Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar, who have spent years in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS), which was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts, arrested a Hindu preacher, Sadhvi Pragya; a self-styled godman, Swami Dayanand Pande; and Lt Col Prasad Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian army. All the arrested belong to Hindu Nationalist organisations, including a Hindu supremacist group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he was part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be terrorists". L.K. Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and made rabble-rousing speeches to huge gatherings, in which he denounced the ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. On November 25, newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the high-profile VHP chief Praveen Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare was killed in the Mumbai attacks. The chances are that the new chief, whoever he is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. While the Sangh parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television channel, has stepped up to the plate.He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My name and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab Goswami turned to the camera; "Arundhati Roy and Prashant Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as frenzied as the one that prevails today amounts to incitement as well as threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her job. So according to a man aspiring to be India's next prime minister, and another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have no right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a shadowy history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake 'encounters'. This in a country that boasts of the highest number of custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being 'encountered' by our encounter specialists. A country where the line between the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? There are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as the United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since 9/11. However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. If the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing its true colours, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed greatly to the unravelling of the American economy and, who knows, perhaps eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of this one too?) Hundreds of thousands of people, including thousands of American soldiers, have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of terrorist strikes on US allies/agents (including India) and US interests in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George Bush, the man who led the US response to 9/11, is a despised figure not just internationally but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that the United States is winning the war on terror? Homeland security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But even if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours cannot be secured or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir, and a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than a hundred and fifty million Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, whose young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose hope and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole world. If 10 men can hold off the NSG commandos and the police for three days, and if it takes half-a-million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir Valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? Nor for that matter will any other quick fix.Anti-terrorism laws are not meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. That's why they have a conviction rate of less than two per cent. They're just a means of putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and eventually letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly likely to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to death. It's what they want. What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades of quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. The only way to contain (it would be naive to say end) terrorism is to look at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One sign says 'Justice', the other 'Civil War'. There's no third sign and there's no going back. Choose. http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081222&fname=ARoy+(F)&sid=1 From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 04:47:10 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:17:10 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: On Victory Day, Defenders of Minority Vote Message-ID: Today's is 37th anniversary of Bangladesh's independence. Victory Day. The anniversary of surrender of Pakistan army in Dhaka. My op-ed on minority vote was published in Daily Star today Election 2008: Defenders of Minority Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/16/minority-vot/ It was partnered with these Victory Day op-eds In Defense of Secularism http://thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=67243 37 Years On http://thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=67245 From vivek at sarai.net Tue Dec 16 07:54:08 2008 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:54:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The deeper meanings of Chinese classical poems Message-ID: <49471148.8010105@sarai.net> Chinese 'classical poem' was brothel ad Science journal mistakenly uses flyer for Macau brothel to illustrate report on China By Clifford Coonan in Beijing Tuesday, 9 December 2008 The Chinese script on the journal cover, which was actually a brothel advert A respected research institute wanted Chinese classical texts to adorn its journal, something beautiful and elegant, to illustrate a special report on China. Instead, it got a racy flyer extolling the lusty details of stripping housewives in a brothel. Chinese characters look dramatic and beautiful, and have a powerful visual impact, but make sure you get the meaning of the characters straight before jumping right in. There were red faces on the editorial board of one of Germany's top scientific institutions, the Max Planck Institute, after it ran the text of a handbill for a Macau strip club on the front page of its latest journal. Editors had hoped to find an elegant Chinese poem to grace the cover of a special issue, focusing on China, of the MaxPlanckForschung journal, but instead of poetry they ran a text effectively proclaiming "Hot Housewives in action!" on the front of the third-quarter edition. Their "enchanting and coquettish performance" was highly recommended. The use of traditional Chinese characters and references to "the northern mainland" seem to indicate the text comes from Hong Kong or Macau, and it promises burlesque acts by pretty-as-jade housewives with hot bodies for the daytime visitor. The Max Planck Institute was quick to acknowledge its error explaining that it had consulted a German sinologist prior to publication of the text. "To our sincere regret ... it has now emerged that the text contains deeper levels of meaning, which are not immediately accessible to a non-native speaker," the institute said in an apology. "By publishing this text we did in no way intend to cause any offence or embarrassment to our Chinese readers. " But publication of the journal caused some anger among touchier internet users in China who felt the institute had done it on purpose to insult China, or that it was disrespectful to use Chinse as a decoration. But generally, the faux-pas sparked much amusement among Chinese readers. On anti-cnn.com, a foreigner-baiting website set up after a commentator on the US broadcaster made anti-Chinese comments following the crackdown in Tibet in March, the reaction was mostly "evil fun". One wrote, "Next time, please find a smart Chinese graduate to check your translation", and another said they should try writing "I am illiterate". The journal has since been updated online and its cover now carries the title of a book by the Swiss Jesuit, Johannes Schreck (1576–1630). The Jesuit text in question was "Illustrated Explanations of Strange Devices". Chinese is a tonal language, which means words sounding the same can often have very different meanings depending on how they are spoken. There are tales of drunken teenagers walking out of tattoo parlours with characters reading, "This is one ugly foreigner" or "A fool and his money are easily parted". Another web-user wrote: "I recently met a German girl with a Chinese tattoo on her neck which in Chinese means 'prostitute'. I laughed so loud, I could hardly breathe." From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 10:12:48 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:42:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0812151131i6bfa74edob6a5551052b10f86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <847778.71054.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir, Wish to correct you on the mistranslation of one verse: Quote "" 2. here is khwaja moeen uddin chishti ajmeri shaah ast hussain, baadshaah ast hussain deen ast hussain, deen panaah ast hussain sar daad na daad dast dar dast e yazid haqqa ke binaa e la ilah ast hussain (farsi) hussain is king, correct belief and saviour of the faith / gave his head but not his hand in yazid's / true (haqqa) it is that hussain is not without (binaa) no god (la ilah)"" haqqa ke Benaa e la ilah ast hussain means Without doubt, Husian is the foundation of the faith (Haqqa) Without doubt, the foundation (binaa in persian and urdu is 'bunyaad') of La Ilah (which would translate as the 'faith') is hussain. not Urdu/Hindi Bina - without!! A passing comment on the rest of the discussion points to the diversity and richness of a tradtion. There are multiple readings of historical events and their varied contemporary uses. Ironically, some would want to read History only to find material to create conflicts that suite them in the present. The other project that may also lead out of reflection on history, could be to use of history to understand the contemporary conflicts, with the aim to mangage them better. I remember an old couplet here: Ek to woh hai ke jo aazari jaan banta gaya Aur ik woh hai jo duniya ki zubaan banta gaya best gowhar --- On Tue, 12/16/08, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 1:01 AM > Thanks Kshmendra, > > This statement helps. I'll quote two well known > couplets/rubaaee > > 1. here is iqbal, somewhat modernist: > > nehaayat rangeen o saadaa hai daastaan e haram > intiha hai jis ki hussain, ibtidaa hai ismail (urdu) > > this the reference to the sacrifice of Ibrahim of his son > Ismail (marking > bakr eid) - the beginning of the story of the house (kaabaa > / house of > Abraham) - being brought to completion by the sacrifice of > hussain, family > and friends - that it is colorful with blood and simple in > its > connection/intent. > > 2. here is khwaja moeen uddin chishti ajmeri > > shaah ast hussain, baadshaah ast hussain > deen ast hussain, deen panaah ast hussain > sar daad na daad dast dar dast e yazid > haqqa ke binaa e la ilah ast hussain (farsi) > > hussain is king, correct belief and saviour of the faith / > gave his head but > not his hand in yazid's / true (haqqa) it is that > hussain is not without > (binaa) no god (la ilah) > > these two gentlemen are well known sunnis although liable > to be labeled > shia. among sufis as i mentioned in the earlier email, > certain naqshbandi > strains are anti-shia" - others are sympathetic, and > take their spiritual > line directly from Ali, while being sunni. some take it to > Abu bakr, the > naqshbandi admit their violence'/rashness in thought > may be due to Umar's > 'vein'. Shah Wali ullah a naqshbandi sunni accepted > the shias as a school of > thought among muslims along with the sunni schools. so > tolerance and > spiritual affiliation are the determinants. > > Although it is true that a group formed around Ali (later > shian e ali) > during the prophets lifetime - while Ali prepared the > prophet''s body for > burial, the other fellows were meeting to appoint the 1st > caliph - there is > also the reverence for the ahle-baith (people of the house) > - around which > the controversy was spread about which wives/families were > included in the > prophet's house reference. most sunni sources (such as > tabari) also point to > ali, fatima, hasan and hussain (never in doubt), while some > give the > alternatives which include umme salma, or even aisha. > > With reference to your other interesting mail about the > non-existence of > mohammad, because the first biography was much later, and > authencity of > versions were then pinned around the 'science of > men'(ilm ur rijal) or > really the science of the geneologies and characters of > transmitters of > knowledge. it was during this time that Muwayia > acccelerated his campaign to > sway opinion in his favour through a proliferation of > hadiths. Yazid's > father's (Muawiya) father was Abu sufyan, a meccan > chief who sought to > regain the power he had lost to muslims and mohammad, by > accepting islam a > little later after giving up the city of mecca peacefully. > Ali and Mohammad, > first cousins belonged to the Hashim clan which abu sufyan > and later muawiya > sought to displace and make the caliphate their own - which > they did. In the > sunni traditional narrative the chapter of the pious > caliphs (khulafa e > rashideen) closes at the 4th, Ali. > > With Muawiya and later Yazid it is clear that the state, > now no longer led > by pious men, in which there is much chaos and dissension, > is no longer a > caliphate in spirit. This was also hussains refusal' to > yazid. Maududi, the > well known but non-traditional scholar (and founder of > Jamaat e Islaami, the > political party) makes a similar point in his book Khilafat > aur Malookiat. > > On the other hand, Ibne Khaldun's argument is for > continuity of state and > the challenge to it. In this light Hussain is a rebel to > challenge yazid and > the state, and so meets his end. this is the only argument > i have come > across which can be argued aginst hussain, and it finds its > adherents. there > are also arguments against shia common practices from which > retrogressive > heresy is argued. that is a problem for the shias > themselves too, as many > shia scholars argue against harming oneself, bloodletting, > etc, and against > some rituals which taunt the sunnis... > > so basically what i am saying is that most sunnis also own > hussain, in which > the relative importance of karbala to islam is put to > question (as compared > to the shias), with the exception of that school of thought > within sunnis > which considers hussain a rebel and shias apostates. what > are their numbers, > i dont know. > > aslo, I have'nt heard the Naik and Israr statements > myself, but i know this > generates heat, also Ghamdi on geo tv. where would they fit > exactly is also > difficult, without actual views i have seen/heard in some > detail. There is > no question about respect for Ali among Sunnis. > > I agree the controversy over Mohammad/hussain's hair > would be serious and > would generate heat, not because hussain is not liked but > because the > versions are so different. but i have no idea. The origins > of Laal Shahbaaz > in Sehwan are also differently told: historians say it is > central asia > (transoxania, mawra un nahr oxus), but pop belief among > shias says that he > is descended from the imams (obviously an attempt to make > him their own), > unlike abdullah shah in Karachi, who actually (probably) > is. > > btw i heard that the prophets hair in the baadshahi mosque > in lahore was > loaned to the shah of brunei or somewhere to take to his > country and then > bring it back after some time. it came back but since then > it has gone > missing .... needless to say it is a commentary on the > state of affairs in > pakistan..... > > best > > ps: have been busy elsewhere getting educated :) > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > Dear Yasir > > > > Perhaps I should have put it differently and said that > "Hussain is one of > > the most important personages for Shias and carries a > significance in Shia > > Islamic annals much greater than in the Sunni > ones" > > > > Consequently it would be quite a comedown for the > Sunni control over > > Hazratbal to be told that the "Hair Relic" > is of Hussain and not Mohammed. > > The Shias would want 'control' over it. > > > > Of course you know that 'Ashura' (10th day of > the month Muharram when > > Hussain was killed in Karbala) carries distinctly > separate significance for > > the Shias and Sunnis. That in no small means is > because of the separate > > significance Hussain himself carries for the Shias and > the Sunnis. > > > > You would also know about the controversies > surrounding the comments of Dr > > Zakir Naik and Dr Israr Ahmed about Yazid and Ali. > Would you add the 2 to > > your "jihadist / extremist" list? > > > > The divide between the Shias and Sunnis runs much > deeper than Hussain. > > With Ali at the fonthead of that divide, would you > argue over (subsequent to > > various struggles over who should be the Khalifa) the > divide > > getting concretised in the Battle of Karbala between > Yazid and Hussain and > > Hussain's death? > > > > If that is so, and with Yazid (alongwith Muaviyah > sworn enemy of Hussain's > > father Ali) as Sunni and Hussain as Shian-e-Ali how > could one possibly > > conclude that Hussain is not firmly on tha Shia side > of the Sunni/Shia > > divide? > > > > Perhaps you know better. > > > > I totally agree with you that (perhaps) most Muslims > are in the 'consensual > > middle' and that is how it should be. > > > > Since the thread started over the "Hair > Relic", it was not farfetched to > > look at the passions any such controversy would evoke > from the 'extreme > > positions'. > > > > Wish you would participate oftener. I have the selfish > motive of wanting to > > get educated. > > > > Take care > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > > On *Fri, 12/12/08, yasir ~يا سر > * wrote: > > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on > Husaini Brahmins > > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" > > > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM > > > > > > Dear Kashmendra, > > > > I dont know the the history of the Hazratbal hair. but > you are overstating > > or even misstating the shia sunni divide on the > question of Hussain. > > > > Most sunnis revere Hussain and his fight to death > against Yazid son of > > Muawiya. During the Muharram month/s you will hear > Sunni sermons eulogizing > > the sacrifice and mourning the deaths of the > prophet's family and friends. > > The account of the events by Zainul abedin (the next > Imam, and Hussain's > > son) of the events is read as a text in sunni > religious seminaries. Sunnis > > may also participate with Taziyas and attend > 'Shia' Majalis, or just watch > > them on TV etc. They may or may not accord the same > level of reverence to > > karbala as shias, some of whom also go overboard with > the case. > > > > That said, there are certain sunni sub-sects, among > them particularly the > > ahle Hadith (aka wahhabi), and certain historical > naqshbandis (mujaddid alf > > saani) who may consider shias heretics, kaafirs etc, > virtually on par with > > deniers such as 'hindus'. I dont think this > strain is the most common > > although occasionally one runs into them - most are in > the consensual > > middle. Not surprisingly this strain (the tendency you > have described) is > > around in jihadist / extremist outfits. > > > > best > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 10:49:25 2008 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:49:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: There was a Queen on NDTV In-Reply-To: <19d498870812152117y78c5651fo529eadba3af7e2a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <19d498870812152117y78c5651fo529eadba3af7e2a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19d498870812152119n63c4106dib3642badc3b5a0b8@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends, Greetings from Other Media Communications! NDTV is screening our film 'There was a Queen' on women, conflict and peace in Kashmir on following days: In two parts on 17th (Wednesday)and 18th (Thursday) of December at 9.30 PM. And the entire film on 21st Sunday at 1.00PM Please inform friends and interested. Please watch the film and write to us your opinion Visit us:www.othermediacommunications.com Santhosh Synopsis of the film "Yi As Akh Padshah Bai" (There was a Queen…) "Give us guns and we'll play our role!" - These are not the words of a hardened criminal; these are the words of a teenaged girl in Kashmir less than a week after her sister was buried. Farha's sister Shahnaza, and her friend, Ulfat, victims of 'crossfire' would have been adult women today - they were barely seventeen when they died, as old as the *tehreek*, the movement, that exploded into existence in 1989, shattering forever the peace of the Valley, and turning it into one of the most critical conflict zones in the world. Over these eighteen years, flashes of intensified conflict and bouts of negotiations have followed one another with monotonous regularity in Kashmir. Newspapers and television channels manufacture predictable binary images of conflict – angry men and weeping women, peace loving Kashmiris and terrorist Kashmiris, misguided innocents and fundamentalist separatists, victims and aggressors. Over and above these is the image that erases all differences – the Kashmiri as terrorist. The film discusses how women's engagement with everyday violence has led them to think of issues of security, peace, conflict management and transformation in the unique situation of conflict in the area. It is also an exploration of the relationship between the construction of identity of the community/nation and women's identity and the need for women to be aware of how and by whom these identity constructs are forged which are usually not favorable to women's autonomy in the particular culture and nation. When the directors set out to make a film, they felt strange to speak to women, only women, ignoring the other half. So they spoke to a few men – one a former militant, another who had sent his son for training across the border with his blessings, a third who had lost his son and then realized he was a militant, a fourth whose brother was killed in crossfire – they spoke to men and realized that while every story had the power to shock and move, the women's stories were compelling in their honesty, in their rage, in their helplessness, in their grief, in their contempt, in their fierce refusal to forget, in their determination to survive, to nurture. It is through these women – proud, strong, with an undying zest for life – that the film examines what peace means and how it can come about in Kashmir. (For DVD copy of the film contact:www.othermediacommunications.com) From eye at ranadasgupta.com Thu Dec 11 13:05:14 2008 From: eye at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:05:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India fumes at duplicate Bangladeshi Taj Mahal Message-ID: <4940C2B2.8070307@ranadasgupta.com> This was one of the rare stories in the current Indian newspapers that made me laugh. Let's just hope they find what they're looking for when they look into copyright law. Otherwise they'll still be fuming. R India's embassy in Bangladesh on Wednesday voiced its displeasure over a life-size copy of the Taj Mahal, saying it would investigate to see if any copyright laws had been breached. "You can't just go and copy historical monuments," fumed a spokesman at the Indian High Commission in Dhaka. "Someone will go out there and have a look. The reports we are reading say it is an exact replica. This is a protected site we are talking about so we need to find out if it really is the exact size," he told AFP. Bangladeshi film director Ahsanullah Moni unveiled his $ 58 million replica, located about 30 kilometres (20 miles) northeast of the Bangladeshi capital Dhaka, this week. Moni began building it five years ago but came up with the idea in 1980 when he first visited the real "Monument to Love" in Agra, India. He imported marble and granite from Italy, diamonds from Belgium and used 160 kilos (350 pounds) of bronze for the dome. "Everyone dreams about seeing the Taj Mahal but very few Bangladeshis can make the trip because it's too expensive for them," he said. The Taj Mahal was built by Emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his wife, Mumtaz Mahal, who died giving birth in 1631. From pratilipi.in at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 16:34:34 2008 From: pratilipi.in at gmail.com (Pratilipi) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:34:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Announcing Pratilipi, Issue 5 (December 2008) In-Reply-To: <5cc6bcd80812100212ub65279cqe9ac4aa110d67eb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cc6bcd80812100212ub65279cqe9ac4aa110d67eb3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <435290ba0812120304g6911e0aeiaf92191cfaa7cc7d@mail.gmail.com> प्रतिलिपि का पाँचवा अंक अब ऑनलाइन है. The fifth issue of Pratilipi is now online. http://pratilipi.in *शीर्ष आलेख / LEAD ARTICLE * - Translating Bharat / India: Something Will Ring * फीचर्स / FEATURES * - Home From A Distance: 4 Hindi Poets in Translation - ६ कवि शहर की तलाश में - किताबत / Kitabat - Indian Documentary: Peripheral Visions *कथा / FICTION * - Grass, Here, Here, Here, Here And Here: Ramesh Chandra Dwivedi - Ice Wine: Priya Sarukkai Chabria - सोनाली और सुबिमल मास्टर की कहानी: प्रभात रंजन - सफेद रंग की स्कूटी: संजय सिंह * कथेत्तर / NON-FICTION * - If Only Ammu Had Been My Daughter: Krishna Sobti - Whoever Sees God…: Gagan Gill - पुस्तक में अनुष्ठान: गिरिराज किराड़ू - बुख़ार में लिखी गयी चिट्ठी: मृत्युंजय - Jashn-e-Azadi: Sanjay Kak - Tales From The Margins: Kavita Joshi - What Should Be The Task Of The Translator of Hindi Novelists: Annie Montaut - Translations And The Making Of Colonial Indian Consciousness: Sudhir Chandra - "Something will ring…": Purushottam Agrawal - Before The Translation: Madan Soni - Hello, How Are You, I Hope: Geetanjali Shree - Siting Translation, Displacing Original: Giriraj Kiradoo * कविता / POETRY * - शिकायतों का पुलिंदा और तितलीः प्रयाग शुक्ल - Shudda Breathon Him: Stig Larsson - To Know What Is Love/प्रेम क्या है जानने के लिए: Oscar Pujol/आस्कार पुजोल - At Eighteen Thousand Feet: Ashok Niyogi - जब बरसेगा शिलौंगः तरुण भारतीय - Loudest Before Dawn: Rohith Sundararaman - Faith In Me Stands Vindicated: Nagarjuna - Single Wicket Series: Vishnu Khare - It Flew Out of the Sky: Vinod Kumar Shukla - Into A New Locale: Arun Kamal - अपनों में नहीं रह पाने का गीतः प्रभात - कि तुम्हें ऐसा ही होना है: शिव कुमार गांधी - यहाँ मेरा आदमकद कोई नहीं: मनोज कुमार मीणा - धुले हुए कपड़ों की तह लगातेः देवयानी - मेरे दुश्मन भी आखिरशः बेरोजगार हुएः विशाल कपूर - उनके किस्सों में थी तुम गौरैया: प्रमोद * लोक-प्रिय / LOK-PRIYA * - Dastangoi: Mita Kapur - पद-दंगल, धवले और जगन मीणा: प्रभात * कला दीर्घा / ART GALLERY* - Moumita Shaw Editors: Giriraj Kiradoo & Rahul Soni Art Editor: Shiv Kumar Gandhi -- प्रतिलिपि: द्विमासिक द्विभाषी पत्रिका Pratilipi: A Bilingual Bimonthly Magazine http://pratilipi.in From ankita.dwivedi12 at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 12:38:28 2008 From: ankita.dwivedi12 at gmail.com (Ankita Dwivedi) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:38:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] urgent help needed Message-ID: <2ad479860812132308g631f7706h885fb87d5d659bfb@mail.gmail.com> Sir, i read the article "Shahar Ke Nissan: Filling Colours in the City". i urgently need to get in touch with the writer..Prabhas Ranjan. Please help. it is extremely urgent. i will be very grateful to u. i am a student of journalism(Delhi University). Kindly reply soon. Ankita Dwivedi From arka at logostheatreindia.org Fri Dec 12 22:27:10 2008 From: arka at logostheatreindia.org (Arka Mukhopadhyay) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:27:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Corrected Version: Invitation to a Performance and a Workshop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33bc2ee60812120857t414735fq48f4f2ad40b35963@mail.gmail.com> A Show Combining Contemporary Movement and Performance Poetry Friday 19th December, 7:00 PM Zorba the Buddha in association with Logos Theatre invites you to be a part of a unique evening. "Somewhere A Country - A Performance in Spoken Word and Unword" combines contemporary movement and performance poetry. Featuring movement by Veena Basavarajaiah and Spoken Word vocals by theStillDancer, a.k.a. Arka Mukhopadhyay, and drawing upon the works of Cavafy, E E Cummings, Auden, Dylan Thomas, Tagore, Jibanananda Das, Basavanna and others, along with original poetry. *Language*: Primarily English, with some Bangla and Kannada. *Duration*: 50 min. approx. *Synopsis*: Chants of walking, voyages in words. The speaker evokes places real and imagined, the mover lives them through her body's memories, affecting, in turn, the texture of the words - their remembered cadences morphing into shifting patterns, written word giving way to improvised speech and sounds. *Veena Basavarajaiah*, is a multi-disciplinary movement artist trained in Bharatnatyam, Kalari, and different techniques of contemporary movement arts. She was with Attakkalari and now works as an independent choreographer as well as a performer with various groups in India and Europe. *Arka Mukhopadhyay*, who does performance poetry and performance art as theStillDancer, is a poet, director and performer. He is the artistic director of Logos Theatre, Bangalore; and has performed and given workshops in many prestigious institutions such as JNU, Jamia Milia Islamia University, Pondicherry University, etc.; and is a theatre-in-education consultant to premiere schools throughout the country. He is the winner of the TFA award for creative writing in 2008, and his poetry has appeared in various national and international journals. *Venue: *Zorba the Buddha, Tropical Drive, Ghittorni, MG Road, New Delhi- 110030 Shrinkhala @ 9873670667, +91 11 65657265, +91 11 26800360, +91 11 26804790, info at zorbathebuddha.org.in. *Theatre Workshop: **20th – 21st December*** *Discovering the self through movement and drama* Arka and Veena will be facilitating a theatre workshop on the 20th and 21st at the Village, called "Selves, Masks, Performance". It covers self awareness through breath, physicality, movement, spatial perception and text. It is meant for actors, performers, as well as others, and does not require any previous performing experience. The exact content of the workshop will be determined by the actual group of participants and their interests, but it'll broadly cover: - Self awareness through breath and voice. Reaching in and reaching out. - Working with the five senses - focus exercises and dramatic expression - Movement - opening up the body, movement improvisations, working with space. - Emoting - working with the raasas. - Impulse, flow and presence - The voice and the self - improvising and interpreting text. Working with Shakespearean excerpts looked at from contemporary contexts. - Working with elements of the Theatre of Images and Rainbow of Desire -discussing conflict, mediation and healing. *Arka Mukhopadhyay* is a poet, director and performer, who does performance poetry and performance art as theStillDancer. He is the artistic director of Logos Theatre, Bangalore; and has performed and given workshops in many prestigious institutions such as JNU, Jamia Milia Islamia University, Pondicherry University, etc.; and is a theatre-in-education consultant to premiere schools throughout the country. He is the winner of the TFA award for creative writing in 2008, and his poetry has appeared in various national and international journals. *Veena Basavarajaiah* is a multi-disciplinary movement artist trained in Bharatnatyam, Kalari, and different techniques of contemporary movement arts. She was with Attakkalari and now works as an independent choreographer as well as a performer with various groups in India and Europe. *Dates: *December 20th and 21st *Time:* Morning session 10:00 to 13:00 Afternoon session 14:00 to 17:00 *Fee:* 3,000/-, which includes vegetarian lunch and tea. * * *Please come in clothing that does not inhibit movement.* *Zorba the Buddha*: Tropical Drive, Ghittorni, MG Road, New Delhi- 110030 Shrinkhala @ 9873670667, +91 11 65657265, +91 11 26800360, +91 11 26804790, info at zorbathebuddha.org.in. -- Arka Mukhopadhyay Artistic Director Logos Theatre In the beginning was the word No. 126, 3rd Main Road, Jayamahal Extension, Bangalore 560046 India www.logostheatreindia.org google group: http://groups.google.com/group/logostheatre (to subscribe by e-mail: logostheatre-subscribe at googlegroups.com) -------------------------------------------------------- If it be now, 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all. Since no man has aught of what he leaves, what is't to leave betimes? Let be. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Mon Dec 15 21:37:19 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:07:19 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "Plazaville" by G.H. Hovagimyan, et al Message-ID: <005b01c95ecf$35ef3480$a1cd9d80$@org> December 15, 2008 Turbulence Commission: "Plazaville" by G.H. Hovagimyan, with Christina McPhee and Artists Meeting http://turbulence.org/works/plazaville/ Needs Quicktime plugin "Plazaville" is a new media video art work set in 21st century New York City. It is based on the classic 1965 movie "Alphaville" by Jean Luc Godard. The scenes from the original "Alphaville" are being re-enacted, interpreted and improvised upon by artists, actors and videographers. The piece uses the Internet as one means of distributing the short video clips. Viewers can download new scenes as they become available. This is somewhat like a serialized program but is not in any order. The videos can be viewed on computers, iPhones and large screen HD televisions (using AppleTV). "Plazaville" extends the notion of video-performance by using the idea of a movie shoot as vehicle for ephemeral performance art. "Plazaville" involves a loose collaborative of artists in New York called Artists Meeting. The members are participating in the work as actors, camera-persons, set designers etc. G.H. Hovagimyan is the director, and Christina McPhee has added her superb camera work and improvisational narratives to several performance set-ups. Hovagimyan has also enlisted the help of several talented young actors to play the key roles. "Plazaville" is a 2009 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs. BIOGRAPHIES G.H. HOVAGIMYAN is one of the first artists in New York to start working with the Internet and new media in the early nineties. His work ranges from hypertext works to digital performance art, installations and HD video. CHRISTINA MCPHEE is an artist in video, photomontage, drawing; born in LA she lives in the central coast of California, just now starting a lectureship at UC Santa Cruz department of film and digital media; is a moderator for the -empyre- list and was a participating editor in the documenta 12 magazine project in 2007. ARTISTS MEETING http://turbulence.org/works/plazaville/credits.html For more Turbulence Commissions, please visit http://turbulence.org Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pradeepdas4 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 10:50:25 2008 From: pradeepdas4 at yahoo.com (Pradeep Das) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:20:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] An Evening of Poetry and Story Reading Session - ANTARANGA-1, at Sahitya Academy Auditorium on 21 December 2008 Message-ID: <868899.47892.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Friends,   Weekend Films in association with Sahitya Academy cordially invite you to an evening of Poetry and Story reading session - ANTARANGA -1.   Venue: Sahitya Academy Auditorium, Rabindra Bhavan, 35 Ferozeshah Road,             (Near Mandi House Metro Station), New Delhi – 110001   Date:   Sunday, 21 December 2008  Time: 5.30 PM   Programme Introduction of Anoop Kumar’s poetry by Mangalesh Dabral Poetry reading by Anoop Kumar   Introduction of Yogendra Ahuja’s story by Ashutosh Kumar Story reading by Yogendra Ahuja   Tea: 5 PM     R.S.V.P.   Weekend Films                                                                     Sahitya Academy 9811912069                                                                          011-23386626 Be the first one to try the new Messenger 9 Beta! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/win/ -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Dec 15 14:29:11 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (CologneOFF) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:59:11 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Launch_of_4th_Co?= =?iso-8859-1?q?logne_Online_Film_Festival_2008?= Message-ID: <20081215095911.FDA27581.74D3538A@192.168.0.2> ------------------------------------- Happy Video! - Merry Christmas !! ------------------------------------- 15 December 2008 VideoChannel - video project environments is happy to launch online just in time before Christmas 2008 // "Here We Are! - the 4th festival edition of CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival \\ presenting until now the largest festival program featuring 142 selected short films and videos. CologneOFF is a new mobile type of film and video festival , taking place simultaneously online and in physical space in cooperation with partner festivals. This year, the world premiere took already place in October at Museum of Contemporary Art MACZUL in Maracaibo/Venezuela, in the framework of the annual digital art festival, the German premiere in the framework of 24 Hours of Nuremberg Film Festival im November 2008 "Here We Are!" - is offerering the visitors the entire heavenly festival program in three sections online // 1. -->OFF - the offical festival program inclusing 35 Films 2. -->LAB - the laboratory for 80 films under different thematical aspects --> (de)materialization LAB --> memory LAB --> identitymix LAB --> (de)(re)socialization LAB --> re-performance LAB --> re-naturation LAB 3. -->MOTHER - a special program of 27 films on the theme of "mother" // For each section an individual PDF catalogue is dowbloadable from the festival site. \\ Enter the festival via --> http://coff.newmediafest.org // The launch of CologneOFF IV represents also the occasion for publishing 50 interviews on VIP - VideoChannel Interviews Project with authors participating in CologneOFF IV, intending to give the visitors interesting background information about video art creating. \\ Further, VideoChannel is starting a new tool, i.e. VAD - Video Art Database - in order to manage the comprehensive collection of hundreds of videos included in the project platforms of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne - in this way all videos can be accessed in future also individually. // CologneOFF festival director Wilfried Agricola de Cologne and the entire team of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne wish all visitors not only much pleasure in video heaven, but above all a Merry Christmas and a Peaceful Happy New Year 2009 View and listen the Christmas message on http://www.nmartproject.net See you again next year!! --------------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org VideoChannel - video project environments http:/videochannel.newmediafest.org VIP - Videochannel Interview Project http://vip.newmediafest.org VAD - Video Art Database http://vad.nmartproject.net are part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ------------------------------------------------------------- contact info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 17:51:31 2008 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:51:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Adda - Film Club Screening of Ek Dozen Paani (2008) at 6pm on 17th December 2008, at Room No. V, TISS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: adda.cmcs at gmail.com Date: 14 Dec 2008 22:33 Welcome to Adda once again. We start our screenings this new semester with Ek Dozen Paani (2008) 6 p.m. 17th of December 2008 Room No. V in TISS. In Mumbai we witness the passage of water from rain to sea via lakes, watersheds, pipes, pumps, pots, human and animal bodies, drains and sewers. These hidden passages describe a unique social, chemical and political structure, a map of ourselves in the modern world. More than many of us, residents in the bastis of Jogeshwari spend time arranging this substance, its leaks and sources. As part of an investigation into the social life of water in these areas, Ek Dozen Paani is a collaborative project between youth of two community organizations- Aakansha Sewa Sangh and Agaaz, Arts Collective CAMP and anthropologist Nikhil Anand. Working together since March 2008, we have been thinking through questions of citizenship and distribution by looking at how residents form relationships with water and its infrastructures: including official water supply, the rains, alternative plumbing, ground water, nallas, and so on. As the name of the film suggests, water has several narrative flows. The films have been made with the youth groups shooting on their own, bringing their footage into a collective pool, and writing over images in analytical, diarisitic or essay styles. These twelve stories speak of water's time and place, of leaky systems and subterranean flows, of struggle and/over imagination. A discussion with the filmmakers will follow the screening. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Adda - The Film Club of the Centre for Media and Cultural Studies, TISS" group. To post to this group, send email to adda_cmcs at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to adda_cmcs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/adda_cmcs?hl=en Visit the blog at www.addacmcs.wordpress.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 18:52:20 2008 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:22:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] In the Shadow of Terror: Anti-politician or Anti-politics? Message-ID: <418f44e20812160522l37af7821xbc81aca8b5fe108b@mail.gmail.com> *commentary*december 13, 2008 *EPW *Economic & Political Weekly *In the Shadow of *T*error: *A*nti-politician or *A*nti-politics?* Suhas Palshikar Neoliberal economics, globalisation of aspirations and the hype about India as a superpower have all led the Indian middle/elite classes to believe that they now constitute the backbone of the country. They expect politics to reflect their aspirations and respond to their anxieties. They want politics to represent them since they assume that they represent India. This disconnect leads to constant suspicion of and cynicism about the politician. This is what underlies the tirade against politicians after the Mumbai horrors.The new activism may be short-lived, but the danger is that the "anti-politics" sentiment will seep across social classes and strengthen a vocabulary of a worrisome kind. As the ghastly attacks on Mumbai unfolded, a new and unanticipated response surfaced. "Urban" India suddenly found its voice and chanted the slogan: "Down with the politician!". Given the many faults of our "politicians", it is no wonder that this slogan finds resonance in the sentiments of many a citizen. Yet, it may not be off the mark to say that the anti-politician campaign has its roots in Mumbai's elite circles and large urban centres elsewhere in the country. The symbolic gatherings expressing sympathy for the dead and injured and solidarity with the National Security Guard (NSG) and police for their fight against the attackers turned into expressions of severe criticism of not only the incumbent government but the entire tribe of politicians. It is being argued that all politicians are *nikamma *and we must do something drastic about our politics. While atrocious ideas like appointing a chief executive officer for Mumbai have surfaced in glitterati interviews, the old spectre of making Mumbai a separately gov­erned territory also constitute this elite and middle class discourse. What happened in Mumbai on 26-28 November was unprecedented and indi­cates the new strategy that would be adopted by terrorist groups in the near future. Given the newness of the strategy, the surprise, the anger and the confusion are all understandable. But when a tragedy becomes a spectacle, it not only blurs the larger picture, it allows some sections to ride piggyback on the public mood of anger and disappointment. Add to it the new-found power of the electronic media and you have all the making of a democracy-through-TV camera. While the NSG was still fighting the bat­tle with the terrorists, sections of media went overboard and started the campaign "Enough Is Enough". One could perhaps appreciate the sentiment behind this, but alas, soon, it turned out that it was an attack on the "politician". Bashing the politician is the easiest thing since the poor species depends so much on the media that however you bash them, they will still flock to the studios and solicit the "byte hunting" sentinels of democracy! For al­most an equal number of hours that the commandos were fighting the battle, the TV cameras were asking anyone and every­one, "isn't enough is enough…?", as if there is a certain amount of terrorism that we can accept. Quickly, this theme was picked up by some non-governmental organisations and the upholders of reformed democracy. Mumbai witnessed a flood of anti-politician expression articulated mainly by the middle classes. It is possible that this out­burst could be seen as a reaction to the suddenness and the trauma – after all, you need somebody to blame. But one suspects that behind this anti-politician campaign, there is a much deeper anti-politics senti­ment. And unfortunately the media is instrumental in shaping and defining it. The anti-politician campaign appears to have three dimensions: it represents an overall disappointment with our politics felt mostly by the urban middle class; it surreptitiously calls for withdrawal from or distancing from competitive politics; it recommends "tough" measures to combat terrorism; it seeks to "reform" politics. The force and appeal of these are evident. If things are going wrong, is it not that the political process has failed to throw up responsible leadership? Is it not true that our politics needs to be reformed? Have we not dilly-dallied on strong measures to fight terrorism? While on the surface these issues seem to be valid, the questions are defined wrongly and the answers are wrong too. That is what makes this anti-politician platform not only faulty but dangerous to the democratic enterprise. In the first question there is an impatience with the democratic process and a naïve expecta­tion that politics, like a magic wand, must resolve all problems. It is typical of the middle class that rather than negotiations and compromises, it believes that there are final solutions to all problems. The issue contained in the second question, political reforms, is undoubtedly important. But we must first define what we mean by reforms. Democracy provides representa­tives and leaders from among society itself. There is no such thing as a separate class of politicians to be bred and brought up for the benefit of society. Besides, democracy is admittedly a clumsy and complex activity. By seeking to sanitise it, are we trying to rob it of its capacity to shape con­testations, its potential to force negotia­tions? Many supporters of the present de­mand for political reform forget that insti­tutional remedies have limitations and should not aim at enslaving the struggles for power (Yadav 2000). Reforming poli­tics should not mean limiting politics; it must facilitate the expansion of politics. This leaves us with the immediate issue of fighting terrorism. Is it political naivety that those demanding tough measures are not aware that this is exactly what the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has been ask­ing for? Would it not make more sense to ask for effective implementation of security measures? As an op-ed piece in *Indian Express *by Nandan Nilekani (29 Novem­ber 2008) rightly implied, why should we give up on democracy for ensuring better governance? But one of the hallmarks of a typical middle class response is "simplifi­cation". Complex issues are presented as simple and straightforward in order to make them comprehensible. Its other di­mension is to seek a simplified solution to all problems. Another aspect of the middle class response is to find someone concrete to blame. After the tragic events in Mumbai, three dimensions were in abundant evidence: simplification, simplified solutions and the need to blame someone. Already, the media and sections of the political class had created an atmosphere in which a simplistic understanding of the issue of terrorism prevailed: that one religion encourages and justifies terrorism, that it is a conspiracy against the emerging Indian superpower, etc. This understand­ing also believes that terrorism can be stopped or ended by some tough action: that India is a soft state and therefore we are facing such attacks. If we become a hard state (read: a militarist state), we can overcome terrorism. But it is the anti-politics tendency more than the tendency towards simplification that requires attention. Middle classes often exercise the exit option instead of aligning with the larger universe called the public. Most of our governance out­comes are a testimony to this exiting foot­print of the middle classes. But politics poses a peculiar problem for the exiting classes. They can neither exit politics fully, nor can they control it fully. In the post-independence period, there was a stage when middle classes expressed disdain for politics by keeping away from it. But the force of politics and the magnetism of democracy drew these sections to politics around the mid-1970s at the juncture of post-Emergency politics, and since then the middle classes have been trying to make sense of politics. The advent of Rajeev Gandhi, the anti-Mandal agitation and later the Ram Janmabhoomi agitation – all these helped the middle classes to align with politics somewhat meaningfully. The rise of the BJP almost provided them with a vehicle. The new economic policies gave them a purpose for engaging in poli­tics. But all these developments did not give the middle classes decisive control over politics. Democracy in India has thrown up a very complex tension as far as the rela­tionship between the political class and the middle classes is concerned. The post-independence development of the middle classes has led to the de-linking of these sections from the rest of society. The mid­dle class sections see themselves more as peripheral colonies of the elite (Palshikar 2002). Soon after independence, the social contract that had obtained during the national struggle faded: the leadership that came from the urban middle class dominated national politics during the freedom struggle, it was aware of the dis­connect between itself and the masses and sought to bridge that through ideology and symbolisms of universality. Demo­cratic politics since the 1930s, but more so after independence, ruptured this social contract. At the state level to begin with, and later, even at the national level, the new politician emerged. He (because it was mostly the male species) was not very sophisticated, he did not speak good English, he did not look like a typical middle class gentleman. Thus, since around the mid-1960s, the patience of the middle classes began to wear out. A new disconnect emerged: the politician would be less or­ganically linked to the middle classes, though s/he may not harm the middle class interests much. Even after the efforts by Rajeev Gandhi, the disjunction between the middle classes and the politician continued. In spite of the growing numbers of the middle classes in our country, the "public" still continues to be dominated by the ordinary, poor, low-income families both in urban and rural India. But in the meanwhile, the discourse of neoliberal economics, globalisation of aspirations and the much hyped dream of becoming a superpower have all led the middle classes to believe that they now constitute the backbone of the future of this country. Therefore, they expect politics to reflect their aspirations, respond to their anxieties; they want politics to represent them since they assume that middle class represents India. This discon­nect leads to constant suspicion and cyni­cism of the politician. The sporadic marches and electronic outcry against politicians alert us to these larger issues. By nature, middle class ac­tivism is short-lived and does not have the strength to sustain itself. It is possible that within a few weeks time these marches may die down and yet, they would have done enough harm. One, because of the vocal and strategic existence of these sec­tions, the discourse might creep into our body politic. Two, there is the danger of anti-politics sentiment spreading across social sections, mainly because of the power of the media and the vocabulary of security adopted by the current discourse. It is for these reasons that we need to take on board the implicit logic of the agitation against the nikamma politician. Suhas Palshikar (*suhas at unipune.ernet.in*) is at the Department of Politics and Public Administration, University of Pune. References Nilekani, Nandan (2008): "We Can Keep Our Heads...", *Indian Express*, 29 November, p 9. Palshikar, Suhas (2002): "Politics of India's Middle Classes" in Imtiaz Ahmed and Helmut Reifeld (ed.), *Middle Class Values in India and Western Europe *(New Delhi: Social Science Press), pp 171-93. Yadav, Yogendra (2000): "Which Reforms? Whose Democracy? A Plea for a Democratic Agenda of Electoral Reforms" in Subhash Kashyap, D D Khanna and Gert W Queck (ed.), *Reviewing the Constitu­tion? *(Delhi: Shipra), pp 296-317. -- Prabhat Kumar Ph.D. Student, Department of History, South Asia Institute, University of Heidelberg, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. Mobile: 00 49 17685050077 FAX: 00 49 06221 546381. From indigene2007 at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 20:57:41 2008 From: indigene2007 at gmail.com (indigene) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:57:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Adda - Film Club Screening of Ek Dozen Paani (2008) at 6pm on 17th December 2008, at Room No. V, TISS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4947C8ED.6080608@gmail.com> Can one attend the screening at TISS freely? Or is a pass required? Shilpa Phadke wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: adda.cmcs at gmail.com > Date: 14 Dec 2008 22:33 > > > > Welcome to Adda once again. We start our screenings this new semester > with > Ek Dozen Paani (2008) > 6 p.m. > 17th of December 2008 > Room No. V in TISS. > > In Mumbai we witness the passage of water from rain to sea via lakes, > watersheds, pipes, pumps, pots, human and animal bodies, drains and > sewers. These hidden passages describe a unique social, chemical and > political structure, a map of ourselves in the modern world. > > More than many of us, residents in the bastis of Jogeshwari spend time > arranging this substance, its leaks and sources. As part of an > investigation into the social life of water in these areas, Ek Dozen > Paani is a collaborative project between youth of two community > organizations- Aakansha Sewa Sangh and Agaaz, Arts Collective CAMP and > anthropologist Nikhil Anand. > > Working together since March 2008, we have been thinking through > questions of citizenship and distribution by looking at how residents > form relationships with water and its infrastructures: including > official water supply, the rains, alternative plumbing, ground water, > nallas, and so on. > > As the name of the film suggests, water has several narrative flows. > The films have been made with the youth groups shooting on their own, > bringing their footage into a collective pool, and writing over images > in analytical, diarisitic or essay styles. These twelve stories speak > of water's time and place, of leaky systems and subterranean flows, of > struggle and/over imagination. > > A discussion with the filmmakers will follow the screening. > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Adda - The Film Club of the Centre for Media and Cultural > Studies, TISS" group. > To post to this group, send email to adda_cmcs at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > adda_cmcs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/adda_cmcs?hl=en > > > Visit the blog at www.addacmcs.wordpress.com > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Tue Dec 16 22:47:01 2008 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:17:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Lines of Control - Basharat Peer Message-ID: <795498.10522.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Lines of control Last Updated: December 11. 2008 8:06PM UAE / December 11. 2008 4:06PM GMT Like Palestine, Kashmir has served as a call to arms for countless acts of Islamist violence. Reporting from Srinigar, Basharat Peer describes life inside a rallying cry. On November 27, the second day of the attack on Mumbai, five terrorists in their mid-twenties were holding hostages in Nariman House, an orthodox Jewish centre in India’s financial capital. As army commandos were preparing to launch an attack on the building to rescue the five hostages, a military helicopter circled overhead and a crowd of onlookers gathered. At about this time a populist Hindi-language news network, India TV, received a call from a terrorist inside the Jewish centre who introduced himself as Imran Babar, a 25-year-old. He spoke Urdu with a smattering of Hindi words in a Pakistani Punjabi accent; he had called to “explain why he was there.” Babar, who came from Multan in Pakistan, delivered a mostly familiar list of grievances in a combative but controlled tone. He referred to the state-aided 2002 pogrom in Gujarat, which claimed the lives of some 2000 Muslims, described the wrongful arrests and detentions of various Indian Muslims, and complained of the daily injustices that afflict Muslims in India. The words he used most frequently were Zulm, the Hindi and Urdu word for oppression, and Itihaas, the Hindi word for history. The Mumbai terrorists claimed to be part of a previously unknown terror group called the Deccan Mujahideen, whose name suggested a “home-grown” Indian outfit. But the scale and sophistication of the audacious assault on Mumbai pointed to the involvement of one of several militant groups armed by Pakistani intelligence and created to fight against India in Kashmir; Indian authorities have since blamed Lashkar-i-Taiba, a Pakistan-based militant group that has carried out bloody attacks in Kashmir and, more recently, inside India. I watched the video of Imran Babar’s phone call on a website at my parents’ house in Srinagar, the Kashmiri capital, a day after he called India TV. His voice and accent betrayed his lower-middle-class origins in Pakistani Punjab, far from the Deccan Plateau in southern India – even as he spoke of the oppression of Indian Muslims. But I was struck when he turned to Kashmir, saying: ““What was the Israeli Army chief doing in Kashmir? What is he to the Indian government? An uncle?” His voice was growing agitated and he shouted, “Was he there to teach what the Israelis do in Gaza and what they did to Bait-ul-Muqadas [the al Aqsa Mosque]?” Here was a Punjabi terrorist who claimed to speak in the name of Kashmiris and Palestinians alike, assuming the mantle of oppressed communities to rationalise the murder of innocents in hotels and train stations. I was rattled, sitting in Srinigar, watching the loud theatre of terror drown out the complexities of life in Kashmir – watching the cause of Kashmiri independence become linked, in the mind of the world, with the deeds of jihadists in Mumbai. The direct linkage of Kashmir and Palestine – two occupied territories, open wounds that sit side-by-side in the minds of those driven to violent jihad – was jarring. In the West Bank and Gaza, my Palestinian friends tell me, Kashmir is a distant, vague place of discontent. And in Kashmir, there is little talk of Palestine, though one might find the works of Edward Said and a few other Palestinian writers in bookstores. But the September visit of Avi Mizrahi – the chief of ground forces in the Israeli army – to Kashmir, to which Babar referred in his call from Nariman House, made the front pages of all Kashmiri and Pakistani newspapers. India and Israel have shared defence co-operation since diplomatic relations between New Delhi and Tel Aviv were established in 1992. The ties have become stronger in recent times, and India has become the largest purchaser of Israeli arms, spending some $5 billion (Dh18.4 billion) since 2000. Indian forces use Israeli unmanned aerial vehicles for intelligence, reconnaissance, and surveillance, particularly in Kashmir. To Pakistan-based Islamist terror groups, such co-operation is further evidence of a conspiracy against Muslims – a view on full display in a fiery speech delivered in August by the founder and leader of Lashkar-i-Taiba, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, a middle-aged former university professor who sports brown-tinted glasses and a henna-dyed beard. In his address at al Qudsea mosque in Lahore, Saeed, the most forceful proponent of a jihad for the liberation of Kashmir – and against “all infidel forces” – began with mention of the “Jewish oppression” of Palestinian Muslims and exhorted Muslims to battle against the American and Nato forces in Afghanistan and Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Province. But for South Asian jihadists like Saeed, my homeland remains the paramount cause, the rallying cry for holy war. For more than half an hour in his August address, now visible on YouTube, Saeed spoke of Kashmir, his voice heated with passion. “Kashmiris walk towards mosques and they are fired upon, bodies fall on streets. The Indian soldiers have closed down the grand mosque of Srinagar. Pakistan has forsaken them. Muslims on this side of the line of control [the de facto border separating Indian and Pakistani-controlled Kashmir] have to stand up and fight for your Muslim brothers in Kashmir. We will help them. If we have to sacrifice not 5,000, but 50,000 men, we will. And the brutes in Islamabad don’t realise it. How can you be so insensitive anymore?” Political discontent in Kashmir dates back to the partition of India and Pakistan. The agreement of accession to India signed by Hari Singh, the Hindu maharaja of the majority-Muslim state, provided for a measure of Kashmiri autonomy that has since been steadily eroded as India extended its control over Kashmir, putting Kashmiri leaders in prison and installing puppet administrators. Two wars, several insurgencies and countless political manoeuvres have failed to settle the issue of “ownership” in Kashmir, and beginning in the mid-1990s pro-Pakistan militant groups have come to the forefront of the rebellion against Indian rule, sidelining secular Kashmiri separatist groups who long ago laid down their arms. Peace talks between India and Pakistan, ongoing since 2004, have made little progress, and the conflict in Kashmir has now claimed some 70,000 lives, many of them civilians – and inspired innumerable acts of violence beyond Kashmiri borders. India has traditionally seen Kashmir as an “integral part” of its territory, and long refused to even consider independence, though Indian leaders have occasionally spoken of granting more autonomy to the province, with few results. For most Indians, Kashmir remains the “crown of the country”, a place where Bollywood movies were filmed and Indian tourists went on summer holidays, at least until the armed rebellion broke out in 1990. The official Indian position, somewhat ironically, sees the possession of the Muslim-majority state as an affirmation of Indian secular pluralism – an implicit rebuttal to the two-nation theory that held Hindus and Muslims could not live together and led to the bloody partition of British India and the formation of Pakistan. Indian rule in Kashmir, however, has displayed few traces of such high-flown idealism. Violence in Kashmir has decreased since 2003 – Kashmir police estimate there are now fewer than 500 active militants in the province – and tourists from India have returned, but the alienation of Kashmiris has not diminished, even though India had come to believe that the province had been “pacified”. This summer a dispute erupted after the state government agreed to transfer 100 acres of land around a pilgrimage site in Kashmir – a cave containing a phallic ice-formation said to be a manifestation of Shiva – to a Hindu trust. The incident triggered months of protests that quickly evolved into a mass mobilisation in favour of independence from India, with hundreds of thousands of Kashmiris taking to the streets between mid-July and mid-September. What was most startling was that these protests were peaceful. Not a single bullet was fired on the Indian soldiers, which made the Islamist militants who have fought Indian forces for much of the past decade appear suddenly irrelevant. Kashmir, it seemed, had made an overwhelming transition from insurgent violence to Gandhian non-violent protest. But the Indian police responded the only way they knew how, attempting to disperse the protests with escalating violence. Between August 11 – when a senior separatist leader, Sheikh Aziz, was killed in northern Kashmir while leading a protest – and mid-September, the police opened fire on and killed as many as 50 protesters and injured more than 700 in scores of incidents in Srinagar, the towns of Baramulla and Bandipora and in various villages. Non-violent separatist leaders were placed under house arrest. By the time I flew home to Kashmir from New York in the middle of September, Srinagar was silent and sullen, hunched like a wildcat. Indian paramilitaries and police were spread across one of the world’s most militarised cities, armed with automatic rifles and tear gas guns and edgy in their concrete bunkers and on street corners. One afternoon after I arrived home, I watched a few thousand Kashmiris stand on the streets near the city centre, facing the paramilitaries and police, and chant for an hour: “We Want Freedom! Go India! Go!” Nobody threw a stone or tried to break the barriers. Kashmir has seen much death and violence in the last two decades, and the restraint I saw that afternoon was striking. I thought back to the protests in 1990 that followed India’s assumption of direct control over Kashmir and its removal of the state government: then, too, people took to the streets peacefully, and their protests were put down by violence. Between 50 and 100 Kashmiri civilians were killed at Srinigar’s Gawakadal bridge in January 1990 when police opened fire on a march, and some 300 protesters died in that month alone. Many young men I had interviewed over the years pointed directly to these killings to explain their decision to join the militant groups that escalated the conflict in the years to come. This summer there dawned a realisation that non-violent politics could help Kashmir achieve far more than insurgency had accomplished: India had the resources and the might to put down any number of insurgents, but could not be blind to the political costs that came with images of unarmed protesters sent to hospital by Indian police. *********************************** It was to SMHS hospital in Srinigar that the wounded were taken by the score. The hospital complex, a series of caramel concrete blocks, is surrounded by old buildings with rusted tin roofs and scores of pharmacies; inside, a constant roar of cars and buses droning past and auto rickshaws honking flows from the adjacent road. The casualty ward has a strong phenyl smell, and the cries of the sick and the wails of relatives echo against its concrete walls. In casualty I met Dr Arshad Bhat, a thin, lanky man in his late twenties, who is completing his masters in Surgery. The night before Sheikh Aziz was shot in August, Bhat slept on a tiny hospital bed in a doctors’ room in Ward 16. The next morning his team was supposed to man the surgical emergency room – whose walls have seen most of the injured over the last 20 violent years. Bhat slept uneasily, and walked into the emergency room with five other surgeons at 9.30am. He and his colleagues were expecting an influx of wounded protesters, and within two hours, streams of them, hit by police fire, were pouring into the hospital. He summoned every team of surgeons in the hospital; some 30 doctors arrived and by the end of the day they had treated a few hundred people with grave bullet wounds. “We might have saved more people,” he told me, his voice full of regret, “if they had not tear-gassed the operation theatre”: that afternoon, as relatives and friends of the injured massed outside the emergency room, angrily shouting slogans of their own, Indian paramilitaries in a nearby bunker fired tear-gas shells through the windows of the emergency room, shattering the glass and filling the operating room with gas. “I could see nothing,” Bhat continued, “and lay in a corner. Injured patients were lying on the beds and smoke made us cry for an hour. We lost track of who was attending to whom and couldn’t attend to any patient for the next two hours.” He would never forget, he told me, one 18-year-old boy with brown hair and a fair face, who arrived in critical condition: “Bullets had torn his abdomen. He had a 10 centimetre cut in a vein and couldn’t talk.” A team of doctors operated on the boy for three and a half hours, replacing 10 pints of blood. “But he wasn’t coming out of anaesthesia,” Bhat continued, slowly. And then the anaesthesiologist announced that the boy’s heart had stopped beating. “The forceps fell from my hands,” Bhat told me. *********************************** For Kashmiris of my generation, coming of age has meant endless conversations about the future of the state, punctuated by outbursts of violence. The protests this summer had brought hope, for the first time in many years, that something might change: within Kashmir, and among Kashmiris scattered around the globe, inboxes were flooded with updates and phones buzzing with news of the latest developments. The violent struggle for Kashmir – the open wound that gave rise to jihadist fury far from Kashmir’s borders – had been pushed to the margins, and it seemed a solution to the problem of Kashmir might finally emerge. Over the years I have spent innumerable afternoons sitting in coffee shops with friends in Srinigar, talking about Kashmir and India. These conversations, more often than not, are tinged with despair: “It will go on like this,” we say to one another; “Maybe India will give a little bit of autonomy.” But most of us were sure that India will never leave. Sometimes there would be talk of independence, of Kashmir’s freedom. That day, a friend who is a newspaper sub-editor said, “there will be a single word on the front page: Aazadi” – freedom. “I will walk on the waters of Dal Lake,” another friend said, while a third said he imagined millions of Kashmiris gathering outside of Srinigar, in the vast saffron fields of Pampore, where an Indian military camp in the fields calls itself “Mighty Fifty”. “There will be an enormous stage and the Indian army commander will hand over keys to us. Then we will see him drive away and watch the last army vehicle leave.” The pictures of hundreds of thousands of unarmed Kashmiris marching peacefully seemed to augur a shift in Indian opinion, and for the first time, a number of Indian intellectuals, newspaper editors and opinion editors were forced by the protests to raise the possibility of an India without Kashmir. Some spoke with condescension, willing to discard the annoyance of Kashmir, to set aside this obstacle in India’s march toward “conquering the world,” as one writer put it. Others saw uncomfortable symmetries between Indian rule in Kashmir and the practices of the British Raj. Vir Sanghvi, the former editor of India’s major English daily, the Hindustan Times, suggested in a column on August 16 that perhaps the time had come for a referendum in Kashmir: “Let the Kashmiris determine their own destiny. If they want to stay in India, they are welcome. But if they don’t, then we have no moral right to force them to remain . . . It’s time to think the unthinkable.” But if this was an opening toward independence, it would prove to be short-lived. The Indian government moved to curtail further outbreaks of dissent by arresting hundreds of protesters and imposing intense curfews across Kashmir to keep the streets empty. With parliamentary elections in India around the corner, no political party wanted to appear willing to concede ground in Kashmir – even before the bloody assault on Mumbai. One early October day when the separatists were planning a march to the centre of Srinigar, I woke up to the sound of birds chirping in the backyard of my house in the southern part of the city. The streets were totally silent, and there were groups of paramilitaries standing with guns and bamboo sticks near the bunker that sits in my neighbourhood. In the afternoon I managed to get a curfew pass, a document issued by a senior administrative official of the Kashmir government, that allows members of certain professions – after a background check – the ability to travel under curfew if their work requires it. I rode with a journalist friend to Lal Chowk, the city centre, a long avenue of wood and brick buildings that houses hundreds of shops, scores of offices and a few schools and colleges, flanked in parts by tall, majestic Chinar or Iranian maple trees. Several lanes and bylanes connect Lal Chowk to various parts of the city, bringing throngs of visitors each day – it is a site of commerce, politics, and socialising. And almost every access point had been blocked by thick spirals of barbed wire and iron sheets: the city had become an enormous prison whose silent streets testified to the harsh efficiency of military control. I spent many hours staring at the empty Lal Chowk, watching an occasional ambulance and several police and military vehicles pass by. No windows opened in the nearby houses; I saw only a few faces peeking out from behind curtains every now and then. The only person enjoying himself was an old newspaper vendor, wearing his curfew pass around his neck and waving two- or three-day-old Hindi-language Delhi newspapers at the soldiers gathered around him. “I was frustrated sitting at home,” he said, “and then I remembered I had a bunch of old Hindi newspapers. The soldiers love them,” he told me in Kashmiri, and then pedalled away on his bike. When I returned home that evening, I was forced to produce my curfew pass and identity card at 10 different checkpoints along the two-mile route, an exercise in humiliation whose sting does not fade with repetition. India’s growing clout as an economic power and its proud status as the world’s largest democracy seemed to make it oblivious to the authoritarian methods deployed in Kashmir – which had, in any case, proved largely successful at curbing the protests. *********************************** Traditionally Kashmiri separatist leaders have opposed participation in Indian elections, and again they called for boycotts when parliamentary elections came around – a worn-out strategy that has brought little benefit to Kashmir. Indian authorities arrested several separatist leaders who had called for boycotts in advance of the vote, just in case; the mobilisation against state elections threatened to undermine India’s insistence that Kashmir enjoys democratic rights. The elections were held in seven phases to control outbreaks of protest and violence: each day voters went to the polls in a particular area while the rest of Kashmir was put under a strict curfew. Turnout was expected to be poor, but people came to vote in vast numbers, waiting in long lines at polling places. There was little violence and a marked absence of threats from militant groups against voters or candidates. It was a rebuff to the unimaginative politics of separatist leaders, who had failed to devise any long-term strategies or plans to carry the energy of the protests forward into resolving the impasse with India. “We have to make a clear demarcation between the elections for alleviating day-to-day problems and the larger struggle for resolution of Kashmir’s political future,” Sajad Lone, a prominent moderate separatist leader, told me. But the hope that existed months before – of resolving the 60-year-old quandary of Kashmiri sovereignty – seemed to have evaporated. On December 7, as parts of north Kashmir went to the polls, I travelled north from Srinigar, which remained under curfew. In the village of Hanjiverra, an hour from Srinigar, I saw several groups of voters gathered outside polling places late into the afternoon. Riyaz Ahmed, a 32-year-old teacher, explained why he chose to vote. “This is not a referendum or a vote for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute,” he said. “This is about issues of daily life. We need the roads to be fixed, we need electricity, we also need to have someone in a position of power to turn to if tomorrow the police or the military harass us.” On this point, however, there was little unanimity: north Kashmir’s two major cities, Sopore and Baramulla, had decided against voting. “We don’t want mere development,” one young man told me outside a polling booth in Baramulla town, where no votes had been registered. “We want independence plus development.” That morning in Sopore I realised that even though the protests had wound down, the anger remained – and the police were only too eager to quell any signs of dissent. The sudden outbreak of violence remained an imminent threat. Sopore is a vast bazaar of hundreds of similar shops selling groceries, clothes, stationary, carpets, cement and almost anything else, but they were all closed. Tense soldiers with bamboo sticks and rifles stood every hundred metres; a few polling places I visited were empty. I was driving in search of a another polling place with a few other reporters and photographers when we came upon around 50 teenagers gathered in an alley outside the local police headquarters, shouting and calling for an election boycott. A minute or two after we arrived, an armored car and a jeep, filled with soldiers and policemen, charged at the young crowd. A few tear gas shells were fired and the protesters were scattered, a few hit with sticks. At this point a group of photographers jumped out and began to take pictures – and a fellow journalist heard a police officer shout, “Beat the press and people will run away.” The paramilitaries and police advanced on the photographers, and we all ran back towards our cars. Mukhtar Khan, a young Associated Press photojournalist, came limping after us after a beating: we rushed him to a local hospital, but after an hour he was transferred to the major hospital in Srinigar, having sustained severe internal injuries. As the dusk began to fall, I drove back to Srinagar along the leafless poplars and apple trees, standing forlorn in the road. Hundreds of soldiers were huddled in small groups around fires they had made of twigs and leaves. Thousands of Kashmiris had voted that day; thousands had stayed away. In a few months a new local government would be formed, but I knew that little would change. The attacks on Mumbai had refocused attention on Kashmir – but they were a stark reminder that the wound, unhealed, will continue to inspire the attacks of militant Islamist groups claiming to fight for the freedom of Kashmir, spreading the violence far from Srinigar. The process of negotiations between India and Pakistan is all but dead in the wake of Mumbai, but perhaps there is some hope to be drawn from the coming inauguration of Barack Obama, who has indicated he will focus on resolving the Kashmir conflict. Obama and his advisers believe peace in Kashmir will allow Pakistan to focus on policing its troubled north-west and co-operate more closely with the US in Afghanistan. India has repeated its stand against “outside interference” in Kashmir, but among Kashmiris Obama’s remarks have been cause for some excitement. “After a very long time we are seeing a statesman who understands the overlap between the crises stretching from Kashmir to Afghanistan and is taking a holistic view. Our fingers are crossed,” said Sajad Lone, whose father, another moderate politician, was killed by pro-Pakistan militants in 2002 for advocating dialogue with India. “Obama is the harbinger of hope for Kashmir.” Perhaps Lone’s words sound naive – but having grown up with war in Kashmir and written about it for a decade, I can say with confidence that this is the first moment in the past 20 years that an American president has spoken with any seriousness about finding a solution for Kashmir. I know well the desperation of Kashmiris to have their voices heard, for I too have searched hard for listeners, from Delhi to London to New York; the constant suffering of Kashmir has rarely moved the rest of the world. Obama, it is true, is not swayed by the human costs or tales of pain and endurance, but by geopolitical calculations. Yet an intervention on those terms is no less worthwhile, for the dividends of a just peace in Kashmir will be many: greater political and economic stability in South Asia, an end to suffering for millions of Kashmiris, billions in defence expenditures saved by India and Pakistan – and the revival of relations across a border that has recently trafficked only in blood. Basharat Peer’s memoir of the Kashmir conflict, Curfewed Night, was published by Random House India in November, and will be released by Scribner in the US next year. He was recently an assistant editor at Foreign Affairs. From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 23:04:09 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:04:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kasab brought from Nepal by Indian forces? Message-ID: Sorry, I don't want to promote any conspiracy theories, but this one sounded too interesting: --- Kasab was arrested by Indian agencies in Kathmandu 2 years ago 16 Dec 2008, 0814 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES Adding a twist to the conspiracy theories in Pakistan's media, a lawyer C M Farooque has claimed that the surviving Mumbai attack accused Ajmal Kasab was arrested in Kathmandu in 2006 by Indian agencies with the help of Nepalese forces, media reported from Rawalpindi on Monday. ''C M Farooque, Advocate, said the Nepalese forces arrested almost 200 people including Kasab before 2006 and his application in this regard was lying pending in the Nepalese supreme court in which Nepalese forces and Indian High Commission were made respondents,'' said the report . It added that the advocate had claimed he wrote letters to Pakistan and Indian governments and addressed a press conference in Nepal on the issue . The report further said that Kasab's parents had contacted Farooque's NGO for help. It concluded, '' The people arrested in Nepal had gone there on legal visa for business but Indian agencies were in the habit of capturing Pakistanis from Nepal and afterwards implicated them in the Mumbailike incidents to malign Pakistan .'' In the meantime, sabrerattling ratcheted up in Pakistan's media, both English and Urdu, following reports of 'incursions ' by IAF jets. Although India denied any such incident, and Pakistan's political leadership played it down, several newspaper editorials in Pakistani papers believe otherwise, and ticked off the Pakistan government for its soft attitude. The Peshawar-based Frontier Post said in a sharp editorial , '' When the Indian fighter planes intruded into our territory the same day by at least four kilometres in our two sectors located far apart, this cannot be believed to be inadvertent trespassing.'' It went on to warn '' if the Pakistan leadership keeps acting as the apologist of this patently provocative Indian intrusion, it is only shooting itself in the foot''. The tone was censorial in The Nation's editorial as well. '' Aerial incursions could have been a right time for Islamabad to mount a diplomatic offensive and raise the issue of these violations at the UN to ward off any future military adventurism by India,'' said the daily. The News, too, suggested that the alleged incursions were no 'mistake'. '' Both New Delhi and Islamabad have put the incident down to a 'mistake' , this sounds unconvincing. The fact that the incursions happened within 24 hours in two separate sectors makes the official explanations seem still less likely . It is thought the Indians may have been attempting to test readiness,'' said its editorial. Pakistan's leading Urdu daily , Jang, lashed out at India for aggravating the strained Indo-Pak relationship. Its editorial said that India has dangerous intentions and Pakistan should be prepared to meet any challenge . Reminding India that the 17 million Pakistanis have a right to defend their sovereignty , the editorial said that Pakistan could go to any extent to protect itself. An opinion piece by economist Kaiser Bengali in the Dawn provided a argument against state patronage of terrorists . ''Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organizational , financial and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the jihadis. Clearly , such an infrastructure cannot operate without tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state agencies.'' From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 02:46:59 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:16:59 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins In-Reply-To: <847778.71054.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0812151131i6bfa74edob6a5551052b10f86@mail.gmail.com> <847778.71054.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812161316o6bcfadm35987af8d9ec88d7@mail.gmail.com> dear gowhar, you're absolutely right. thanks for the correction. i went too fast. you are right about managing conflicts using historical cues. if we can manage or just mildly adjudicate (can't be done without some kind of judgments and dustbins of history) versions of contested history and the motors that propagate one or the other (the propaganda machines) we may be able to manage the conflicts. that remains a hope. thanks for stating that. but as of now where this negotiation takes place, who will do it for whom, who will do the managing is onerous. we are all the poorer for it. but i do strongly believe it can be done - i have seen small and larger examples of it. its where the managers usually with simply a practical sense are able to make things work for as long as the consensual equilibrium can be maintained, whether in years, decades or whatever. how far the historical cues will remain effective and re/grow roots in the long term is equally difficult - the failure of education and culture also happen. its also dangerously fragile. best On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:42 AM, gowhar fazli wrote: > > Dear Yasir, > > Wish to correct you on the mistranslation of one verse: > > Quote > "" > 2. here is khwaja moeen uddin chishti ajmeri > > shaah ast hussain, baadshaah ast hussain > deen ast hussain, deen panaah ast hussain > sar daad na daad dast dar dast e yazid > haqqa ke binaa e la ilah ast hussain (farsi) > > hussain is king, correct belief and saviour of the faith / gave his head > but > not his hand in yazid's / true (haqqa) it is that hussain is not without > (binaa) no god (la ilah)"" > > > haqqa ke Benaa e la ilah ast hussain > > means > Without doubt, Husian is the foundation of the faith > > (Haqqa) Without doubt, the foundation (binaa in persian and urdu is > 'bunyaad') of La Ilah (which would translate as the 'faith') is hussain. > > not Urdu/Hindi Bina - without!! > > > A passing comment on the rest of the discussion points to the diversity and > richness of a tradtion. There are multiple readings of historical events > and their varied contemporary uses. Ironically, some would want to read > History only to find material to create conflicts that suite them in the > present. > > The other project that may also lead out of reflection on history, could be > to use of history to understand the contemporary conflicts, with the aim to > mangage them better. > > I remember an old couplet here: > > Ek to woh hai ke jo aazari jaan banta gaya > Aur ik woh hai jo duniya ki zubaan banta gaya > > best > gowhar > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on Husaini Brahmins > > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 1:01 AM > > Thanks Kshmendra, > > > > This statement helps. I'll quote two well known > > couplets/rubaaee > > > > 1. here is iqbal, somewhat modernist: > > > > nehaayat rangeen o saadaa hai daastaan e haram > > intiha hai jis ki hussain, ibtidaa hai ismail (urdu) > > > > this the reference to the sacrifice of Ibrahim of his son > > Ismail (marking > > bakr eid) - the beginning of the story of the house (kaabaa > > / house of > > Abraham) - being brought to completion by the sacrifice of > > hussain, family > > and friends - that it is colorful with blood and simple in > > its > > connection/intent. > > > > 2. here is khwaja moeen uddin chishti ajmeri > > > > shaah ast hussain, baadshaah ast hussain > > deen ast hussain, deen panaah ast hussain > > sar daad na daad dast dar dast e yazid > > haqqa ke binaa e la ilah ast hussain (farsi) > > > > hussain is king, correct belief and saviour of the faith / > > gave his head but > > not his hand in yazid's / true (haqqa) it is that > > hussain is not without > > (binaa) no god (la ilah) > > > > these two gentlemen are well known sunnis although liable > > to be labeled > > shia. among sufis as i mentioned in the earlier email, > > certain naqshbandi > > strains are anti-shia" - others are sympathetic, and > > take their spiritual > > line directly from Ali, while being sunni. some take it to > > Abu bakr, the > > naqshbandi admit their violence'/rashness in thought > > may be due to Umar's > > 'vein'. Shah Wali ullah a naqshbandi sunni accepted > > the shias as a school of > > thought among muslims along with the sunni schools. so > > tolerance and > > spiritual affiliation are the determinants. > > > > Although it is true that a group formed around Ali (later > > shian e ali) > > during the prophets lifetime - while Ali prepared the > > prophet''s body for > > burial, the other fellows were meeting to appoint the 1st > > caliph - there is > > also the reverence for the ahle-baith (people of the house) > > - around which > > the controversy was spread about which wives/families were > > included in the > > prophet's house reference. most sunni sources (such as > > tabari) also point to > > ali, fatima, hasan and hussain (never in doubt), while some > > give the > > alternatives which include umme salma, or even aisha. > > > > With reference to your other interesting mail about the > > non-existence of > > mohammad, because the first biography was much later, and > > authencity of > > versions were then pinned around the 'science of > > men'(ilm ur rijal) or > > really the science of the geneologies and characters of > > transmitters of > > knowledge. it was during this time that Muwayia > > acccelerated his campaign to > > sway opinion in his favour through a proliferation of > > hadiths. Yazid's > > father's (Muawiya) father was Abu sufyan, a meccan > > chief who sought to > > regain the power he had lost to muslims and mohammad, by > > accepting islam a > > little later after giving up the city of mecca peacefully. > > Ali and Mohammad, > > first cousins belonged to the Hashim clan which abu sufyan > > and later muawiya > > sought to displace and make the caliphate their own - which > > they did. In the > > sunni traditional narrative the chapter of the pious > > caliphs (khulafa e > > rashideen) closes at the 4th, Ali. > > > > With Muawiya and later Yazid it is clear that the state, > > now no longer led > > by pious men, in which there is much chaos and dissension, > > is no longer a > > caliphate in spirit. This was also hussains refusal' to > > yazid. Maududi, the > > well known but non-traditional scholar (and founder of > > Jamaat e Islaami, the > > political party) makes a similar point in his book Khilafat > > aur Malookiat. > > > > On the other hand, Ibne Khaldun's argument is for > > continuity of state and > > the challenge to it. In this light Hussain is a rebel to > > challenge yazid and > > the state, and so meets his end. this is the only argument > > i have come > > across which can be argued aginst hussain, and it finds its > > adherents. there > > are also arguments against shia common practices from which > > retrogressive > > heresy is argued. that is a problem for the shias > > themselves too, as many > > shia scholars argue against harming oneself, bloodletting, > > etc, and against > > some rituals which taunt the sunnis... > > > > so basically what i am saying is that most sunnis also own > > hussain, in which > > the relative importance of karbala to islam is put to > > question (as compared > > to the shias), with the exception of that school of thought > > within sunnis > > which considers hussain a rebel and shias apostates. what > > are their numbers, > > i dont know. > > > > aslo, I have'nt heard the Naik and Israr statements > > myself, but i know this > > generates heat, also Ghamdi on geo tv. where would they fit > > exactly is also > > difficult, without actual views i have seen/heard in some > > detail. There is > > no question about respect for Ali among Sunnis. > > > > I agree the controversy over Mohammad/hussain's hair > > would be serious and > > would generate heat, not because hussain is not liked but > > because the > > versions are so different. but i have no idea. The origins > > of Laal Shahbaaz > > in Sehwan are also differently told: historians say it is > > central asia > > (transoxania, mawra un nahr oxus), but pop belief among > > shias says that he > > is descended from the imams (obviously an attempt to make > > him their own), > > unlike abdullah shah in Karachi, who actually (probably) > > is. > > > > btw i heard that the prophets hair in the baadshahi mosque > > in lahore was > > loaned to the shah of brunei or somewhere to take to his > > country and then > > bring it back after some time. it came back but since then > > it has gone > > missing .... needless to say it is a commentary on the > > state of affairs in > > pakistan..... > > > > best > > > > ps: have been busy elsewhere getting educated :) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Yasir > > > > > > Perhaps I should have put it differently and said that > > "Hussain is one of > > > the most important personages for Shias and carries a > > significance in Shia > > > Islamic annals much greater than in the Sunni > > ones" > > > > > > Consequently it would be quite a comedown for the > > Sunni control over > > > Hazratbal to be told that the "Hair Relic" > > is of Hussain and not Mohammed. > > > The Shias would want 'control' over it. > > > > > > Of course you know that 'Ashura' (10th day of > > the month Muharram when > > > Hussain was killed in Karbala) carries distinctly > > separate significance for > > > the Shias and Sunnis. That in no small means is > > because of the separate > > > significance Hussain himself carries for the Shias and > > the Sunnis. > > > > > > You would also know about the controversies > > surrounding the comments of Dr > > > Zakir Naik and Dr Israr Ahmed about Yazid and Ali. > > Would you add the 2 to > > > your "jihadist / extremist" list? > > > > > > The divide between the Shias and Sunnis runs much > > deeper than Hussain. > > > With Ali at the fonthead of that divide, would you > > argue over (subsequent to > > > various struggles over who should be the Khalifa) the > > divide > > > getting concretised in the Battle of Karbala between > > Yazid and Hussain and > > > Hussain's death? > > > > > > If that is so, and with Yazid (alongwith Muaviyah > > sworn enemy of Hussain's > > > father Ali) as Sunni and Hussain as Shian-e-Ali how > > could one possibly > > > conclude that Hussain is not firmly on tha Shia side > > of the Sunni/Shia > > > divide? > > > > > > Perhaps you know better. > > > > > > I totally agree with you that (perhaps) most Muslims > > are in the 'consensual > > > middle' and that is how it should be. > > > > > > Since the thread started over the "Hair > > Relic", it was not farfetched to > > > look at the passions any such controversy would evoke > > from the 'extreme > > > positions'. > > > > > > Wish you would participate oftener. I have the selfish > > motive of wanting to > > > get educated. > > > > > > Take care > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On *Fri, 12/12/08, yasir ~يا سر > > * wrote: > > > > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Intizar Husain on > > Husaini Brahmins > > > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "prabhat kumar" > > > > > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Dear Kashmendra, > > > > > > I dont know the the history of the Hazratbal hair. but > > you are overstating > > > or even misstating the shia sunni divide on the > > question of Hussain. > > > > > > Most sunnis revere Hussain and his fight to death > > against Yazid son of > > > Muawiya. During the Muharram month/s you will hear > > Sunni sermons eulogizing > > > the sacrifice and mourning the deaths of the > > prophet's family and friends. > > > The account of the events by Zainul abedin (the next > > Imam, and Hussain's > > > son) of the events is read as a text in sunni > > religious seminaries. Sunnis > > > may also participate with Taziyas and attend > > 'Shia' Majalis, or just watch > > > them on TV etc. They may or may not accord the same > > level of reverence to > > > karbala as shias, some of whom also go overboard with > > the case. > > > > > > That said, there are certain sunni sub-sects, among > > them particularly the > > > ahle Hadith (aka wahhabi), and certain historical > > naqshbandis (mujaddid alf > > > saani) who may consider shias heretics, kaafirs etc, > > virtually on par with > > > deniers such as 'hindus'. I dont think this > > strain is the most common > > > although occasionally one runs into them - most are in > > the consensual > > > middle. Not surprisingly this strain (the tendency you > > have described) is > > > around in jihadist / extremist outfits. > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > From saheliwomen at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 11:34:34 2008 From: saheliwomen at gmail.com (Saheli Women) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:34:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: December 20 programme-please circulate In-Reply-To: <12d068e70812162141o53ac7719x5e0e3d91a8db5e4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d068e70812162028x2d2c556q1725ca3c1719ee7f@mail.gmail.com> <12d068e70812162141o53ac7719x5e0e3d91a8db5e4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12d068e70812162204y5b0b19f1je51e777685cd95d0@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: shabnam hashmi Date: Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 4:25 PM Subject: December 20 programme-please circulate To: Harsh Kapoor , ANHAD DELHI Homage to the Memory of the Victims of Mindless Violence A Cultural Tribute Join Us Poetry, Music, Performances, Statements December 20, 2008 | 3pm onwards Constitution Club Lawns Rafi Marg, New Delhi Organised by: ACADEMY OF PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE, ALL INDIA CHRISTIAN COUNCIL, All India Dalit Mahila Adhikar Manch, AMAN BIRADARI, ANHAD, ANKUR, Artists Unlimited, ASHRAY ADHIKAR ABHIYAN, BHARTIYA MUSLIM MAHILA ANDOLAN, Campaign for Judicial Accountability and Reforms, COMMISSION FOR RELIGIOUS HARMONY (CBCI), COMMUNICATION INFORMATION BUREAU (DELHI CATHOLIC CHURCH), HUMAN RIGHTS LAW NETWORK, INSTITUTE FOR SECULAR DEMOCRACY, JAGORI, JNUSU, KRITI, MANAS FOUNDATION, MUSLIM WOMEN'S FORUM, NCAS, NSD STUDENTS, National Campaign for Dalit Human Rights, NIRANTAR, NISHAN, Popular Education & Action Centre, PEOPLE TREE, PRAXIS, PRESS CLUB OF INDIA, SAHELI, SANGAT, STUDENT FEDERATION OF INDIA, SUMAN SANSKRITIK KALA MANCH, WOMEN'S COALITION TRUST From vivek at sarai.net Wed Dec 17 13:02:16 2008 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:02:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sock and Awe Message-ID: <4948AB00.90002@sarai.net> A pleasant diversion in dark times: this mildly enjoyable game involving shoes and George Bush: http://www.sockandawe.com/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 15:48:46 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:18:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Dhaka Jamaat chief spits venom at India, says two-nation theory right" Message-ID: <952668.64865.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Through the years, an increasing number of voices in Pakistan want honest evaluation of what West-Pakistan did wrong that led to the creation of Bangladesh.   The Jammat-i-Islami Chief in Bangladesh trudges a different track. 'The Indians do not like us Bangladeshis because we are Muslims,'   Kshmendra    "Dhaka Jamaat chief spits venom at India, says two-nation theory right" Indo Asian News Service Wed, Dec 17     Dhaka, Dec 17 (IANS) India's role in the formation of Bangladesh and the two nation theory is under the spotlight here with the Jamaat-e-Islami chief saying that Indians have always been 'hostile' towards Bangladeshis and historians dismissing his views as 'seditious'.   'The Indians do not like us Bangladeshis because we are Muslims,' Motiur Rahman Nizami, chief of the Bangladesh Jamaat-e-Islami, said Tuesday in a discussion being held in the run-up to the Dec 29 parliamentary poll.   Nizami also appealed to the voters to elect the alliance led by Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) chief Khaleda Zia, with whom he and the Islamists shared power during 2001-06.   'Indian soldiers plundered our country indiscriminately during the War of Independence,' he said, referring to India's role in Bangladesh's emergence in December 1971.   A war with Pakistan on both fronts in December that year led to 5,000 Indian soldiers and numerous Bangladeshis being killed before 93,000 Pakistani officers and men surrendered to the Indian forces.   '[They] took away not only the arms and ammunition abandoned by the Pakistani troops, but also stripped our factories down to the nuts and bolts and robbed educational institutions of their laboratory equipment and decamped with even bags of blood from the blood banks,' Nizami was quoted as saying in the New Age newspaper.   He justified Pakistan founding father Mohammed Ali Jinnah's two-nation theory that projected the Muslims and Hindus of undivided India as two separate nations.   'The hostile attitude demonstrated by India towards Bangladesh through the past 37 years also proves that the two-nation theory was absolutely right,' said Nizami, whose party was banned along with several Islamist outfits in the years immediately after independence for their 'collaboration' with the Pakistani authorities in killing unarmed civilians.   The Islamists returned to the political mainstream was during the military regime of slain president Ziaur Rahman, who founded the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP).   Nizami's questioning of India's role and reiteration of the two nation theory was lambasted as 'seditious' and 'a trick to get media coverage ahead of the elections', The Daily Star said, quoting the views of four historians.   Historians Serajul Islam Choudhury, Anwar Hossain, Imtiaz Ahmed and B.K. Jahangir told the paper that Nizami was trying to 'rewrite' the history of South Asia and of Bangladesh and hoped that this would be rejected by the electorate on Dec 29.   They termed Nizami's remarks an 'audacious' and a 'tendentiously wrong reading of history' because Bangladesh was 'not liberated based on the two-nation theory but Bengali nationalism'.   Historian Anwar Hossain said: 'I am inclined to believe that Mr Nizami is trying to retrieve a theory that has long lost its logical, political and historical basis.'   Another historian Serajul Islam Choudhury described Nizami's statement as amounting to an act of sedition.   'Had the two-nation theory been right, Bangladesh would not have been founded. Foundation of Bangladesh buried the two-nation theory back in 1971,' he said, adding that Jinnah had himself categorically cancelled his own theory.   http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20081217/876/twl-dhaka-jamaat-chief-spits-venom-at-in.html?printer=1           From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 15:57:21 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:27:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Fatwa against state" - Dr SN Gilani comments on Maulvi Umar Farooq Message-ID: <367745.66432.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> THE DAILY RISING KASHMIR Wednesday, December 17, 2008 (Srinagar)   "Fatwa against state"    ( There is a need to understand who can issue a Fatwa, under what conditions and what does fatwa mean per se. Dr. Syed Nazir Gilani responds to the statement of Mirwaiz Umar Farooq to issue a fatwa against state government over imposing restrictions on offering Friday prayers at Jamia Masjid for past six weeks)   On 12 December, 2008 it was for the sixth consecutive Friday that people couldn't offer prayers at Jamia Masjid, in Srinagar, due to the restrictions.  Have the authorities in the State failed to provide a habitat which does not interfere in the freedom of religion? This is an important question. Have the members of Indian Security Forces which have entered the territories of the State on 27 October 1947 to perform three stipulated tasks namely to protect 'life', 'honour' and 'property' and act in aid of the state forces, dutifully performed their job or have drifted away from the contractual obligations ? This is another important question. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, on 28 November had threatened to issue a Fatwa against the authorities for this interference in the freedom of religion. On 12 December he has repeated that Ulemas (scholars of classical religious sciences) here were planning to issue a fatwa (formal opinion) against the state government to protest against the 'religious repression'. What are the merits of this Fatwa? This is another important question and begs an unbiased and well informed judgment. In the early days of Islam, Fatawa (Plural of fatwa) were pronounced by distinguished scholars to provide guidance to other scholars, judges and citizens on how subtle points of Islamic law should be understood, interpreted or applied. There were strict rules on who is eligible to issue a valid fatwa and who could not, as well as on the conditions the fatwa must satisfy to be valid. A pope also issues a Papal bull or charter. It is named after the bulla that was appended to the end to authenticate it. According to the usul al-fiqh (principles of jurisprudence), the fatwa must meet the following conditions in order to be valid: The fatwa is in line with relevant legal proofs, deduced from Qur'anic verses and Ahadith (prophetic sayings and traditions); provided the Hadith was not later abrogated by the prophet. It is issued by a person (or a Board) having due knowledge and sincerity of heart; It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude; It is adequate with the needs of the contemporary world. Mirwaiz is well learned as compared to a majority of religious scholars in Srinagar. However, his scholarship is not of the caliber that can qualify for being a jurist satisfying a number of qualifications and trained in the techniques of ijtihad (personal reasoning) the fourth source of Islamic law after the Qur’an, the Prophet’s sunna, and ijma, or consensus, to issue a legal opinion or interpretation of an established law. He does not have the comparative study of other religions. As a Muslim and as a citizen of Jammu and Kashmir he has every right to practice his religion. It is not a Srinagar based Muslim who has to defend the freedom of his religion but it is a civic obligation of every other religious or non religious citizen of Kashmir that they defend the freedom of a Muslim to offer Friday prayers freely at Jamia and other mosques. A mosque is an institution of every Muslim and the mosque of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was open for everybody, men and women, old and young, Arab and non-Arab. Mosque has to be a democratic institution and it should not be held as a private property. There is a serious cause to invoke the freedom of religion guaranteed under the Indian Constitution and invoke the terms of Instrument of Accession and challenge the state authorities and the Security Forces for imposing restrictions on 'prayers' at the Jamia mosque in Srinagar. However, Mirwaiz, before he decides to use the weapon of Fatwa, shall have to convince every common Muslim in Srinagar, that genuine religious performance has been hindered by the State.  Many may dispute the question of his highest knowledge of Quran and Sunnah, piety and integrity. Even if one cascaded down the test scale and gives him the benefit of doubt, he shall still need to prove that he satisfies the four basic conditions before announcing a 'Fatwa'. Out of the four conditions to make a 'Fatwa' valid condition (2) that is, "It is issued by a person (or a board) having due knowledge and sincerity of heart;" and condition (3) that is, "It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude;" are non-compromisable. Mirwaiz is chairman of a faction of Hurriyat (APHC) and this makes him a person of prescribed political faith which is in conflict if not at war with many other political opinions in Kashmir. He heads Kashmir Coordination Committee (KCC) and is also Chairman of Jammu Kashmir Mutahid-e-Majlis Ulema (MMU). As Chairman of United APHC he failed to secure the faith of the non Muslims (Kashmiri Pandits) in the harmless and pro Kashmiri interest of his alliance. The heavy political interests of Mirwaiz in APHC attract his disqualification for a valid Fatwa under the third most important condition, that is, "It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude;" As a Muslim his views on the state attack on Lal Masjid, its innocent inmates, including men, women, and minor children cause a serious hump in his 'piety and integrity'. His grave like silence on the movement of civil society institutions for the independence of judiciary and rule of law in Pakistan and non concern for the rights of the citizens of Jammu and Kashmir in Azad Kashmir and Gilgit and Baltistan also lower the score of credit in his 'piety and integrity'. Moreover, the four sunni schools of Islamic jurisprudence namely Hanafi, Maliki,  Shafi'i  and Hanbali and the Ja'fari school of Islamic jurisprudence may not all agree on the question of his highest knowledge of Quran and Sunnah, piety and integrity. There are equally valid and unerasable questions marked on the history of his inherited political credentials. It has remained, at times, at a distance from the best interests of the people and their mood. Peoples 'Fatwa' needs to be enforced against the state authorities and others through the invocation of the guarantees enshrined in the Constitution and in line with the three stipulations of the Instrument of Accession. To seek a relief under the Instrument of Accession in no way means that it would prejudice the merits of the right of self-determination. After all our detained leaders seek a relief under the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution of India and all their travel documents are issued in accordance with the spirit of the laws and the Constitution of India. However, for any consideration to issue a religious 'Fatwa' Mirwaiz shall have to resign from his multiple political interests and wait to qualify on the four conditions which make a 'Fatwa' valid.  Maulana Mehmood Madani, president of the Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind has said "In Sunni Islam, a fatwa is nothing more than an opinion. It is just a view of a mufti and is not binding in India." There is a binding rule that saves the fatwa pronouncements from creating judicial havoc, whether within a Muslim country or at the level of the Islamic world in general: it is unanimously agreed that a fatwā is only binding on its author. This was underlined by Sheikh Abdul Mohsen Al-Obeikan, vice-minister of Justice of Saudi Arabia, in an interview with the Arabic daily "Asharq al awsat", as recently as on July 9, 2006, in a discussion of the legal value of a fatwā by the Islamic Fiqh Academy (IFA) on the subject of misyar marriage (Nikah Misyar or "travellers' marriage"). Defense of freedom of religion is a common responsibility of all citizens of the state of Jammu and Kashmir and making sure that the instrument of 'Fatwa' is not used for non religious purposes is a binding duty of every Muslim in the habitat. Author is London based Secretary General of JKCHR – NGO in Special Consultative Status with the United Nations.  Email \n dr-nazirgilani at jkchr.com This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it   http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=9097   From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 16:44:51 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:44:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pandits overcome distance and cynicism, join J-K electoral process In-Reply-To: <6353c690812170314y364bfd54g488eca03cbea4e46@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812170314y364bfd54g488eca03cbea4e46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812170314t5f53ebfcs2b31699d2f634937@mail.gmail.com> Pandits overcome distance and cynicism, join J-K electoral process *Geeta Gupta * Posted: Dec 17, 2008 at 0119 hrs IST - Indian Express Link - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pandits-overcome-distance-and-cynicism-join-jk-electoral-process/399431/ ** ** *New Delhi:* Pandit migrants living in Delhi for nearly 20 years now are voting long distance to keep their stake in Jammu and Kashmir alive. At least 40 people have voted so far in the last five phases through the postal ballot, and 59 others have already filled their Migrant forms (M-forms) to cast their votes on Wednesday, when South Srinagar district goes to the polls in the sixth phase. Srinagar district has the highest number of Pandit votes at 23,796, most of who migrated to different parts of the country after violence broke out in the Valley in the 1990s. "We are Kashmiris before Pandits. I am very happy that the people of Kashmir have come out in large numbers to vote this time, despite threats and boycott calls by the separatists," Rashneek Kher, a 27-year-old Kashmiri Pandit, said. He migrated with his family from Badgam at the age of 16. Today, he is married and has a three-year-old daughter. He works with a multinational company in Faridabad, as head of logistics department. Kher is registered as a voter in Badgam but says he has never voted. "I will never vote till I am given a chance to vote in the place where I belong," he said. Pandit migrants in Delhi feel the entire exercise of voting is futile and the process too cumbersome. A lot of voters blame the tedious and very complicated process of filling up migrant forms for the small number of votes sent. "Not more than 40 people voted in the first five phases. But at least 59 voters have registered to vote tomorrow by filling up the M-forms," an election officer at the Prithviraj Road polling station said. For the sixth phase tomorrow, Kashmiri Pandits will be able to cast their votes at two places in Delhi, Kashmir House on Prithviraj Road and the office of the Deputy Director Horticulture, Shalimar Bagh. "I am not interested in voting and the entire process is too futile. The younger generation really doesn't bother about this farce of an election process. We are anyway a minority and our votes don't matter," Rahul Pandita, a 32-year-old Pandit migrant living in Delhi for the last 14 years, said. Meanwhile, an Internet campaign has been taken up by the Delhi-based Kashmiri Visthapit Sangarsh Samiti (KVSS), seeking "100 per cent KP voting" in absentia. The organisation is sending out strong worded emails, motivating people to check their names in the electoral list and fill in the M-forms, as their "inaction will only benefit the enemy". "With over 10 Kashmiri Pandit candidates contesting from various national parties, it's a win-win situation for us," S K Bhat, General Secretary, KVSS, said. Habba Kadal and Amira Kadal are two areas in the Valley that have a strong Pandit population. As many as 10 Pandit candidates have filed their nominations from the Habba Kadal constituency, including one from the BJP, one from the Congress, one from the Lok Janshakti Party, and independent sitting MLA Raman Mattoo. Amira Kadal too has one Pandit candidate standing from the BJP, one from the People's Democratic Front. "Not many people are able to vote as the process of registration is not technically sound. Also, polling happens on working days in Delhi and most voters are employed here with the private sector and might not get a day off," Bhat said. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 16:46:33 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:16:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Beyond conspiracy theories" - Kaiser Bengali in "DAWN" Message-ID: <684420.87142.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> EXTRACTS:   - Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organisational, financial and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the jihadis. .....cannot exist and operate without an element of tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state agencies.   - Either the nation’s intelligence agencies are completely incompetent or totally complicit. If it is the former, then the country is in mortal danger. ....... If it is the latter, then the criminal adventurism of the self-styled protectors of national interest is bestowing on the country international disdain and endangering its stability and security.       "Beyond conspiracy theories" Monday, 15 Dec, 2008 By Kaiser Bengali   THE Mumbai massacre has been a shocking event for all civilised souls across the world, including those in Pakistan. As is always the case, the search for responsibility began and, almost immediately, fingers were pointed at Pakistan. Equally promptly, denial followed from this end. However, the world community appears to be accepting the Indian view and Pakistan is under enormous pressure from all quarters. The government has been aware of the gravity of the situation and the complete diplomatic isolation of the country. It has acted responsibly and has taken a series of measures on the domestic and diplomatic fronts to limit the damage. Questions arise as to who could be responsible for this barbaric act and what could have been the motive. Three classes of conspiracy theories can be discerned. One, there is the Indian view that the perpetrators were Pakistanis and the attack originated in Pakistan. It is stated that Pakistan has been using non-state actors since the 1980s to forward its regional agenda in Afghanistan and Kashmir. In Afghanistan, their motive was to bring down the pro-Soviet, pro-India regime and to install a pro-Pakistan dispensation. Post-2001 it is stated that these non-state actors have been operating with the support of rogue elements within the country’s intelligence agencies, meaning without official sanction. Their theatre of operation is now limited to Kashmir and to the occupying power, India, with the objective of bleeding India to the point of conceding Kashmir. The second view is that the Mumbai attacks were executed by the Indian intelligence. India, it is said, has been unnerved by the sustained peaceful agitation for independence in Kashmir, aggravated by the sharp communal split in the held state. India’s claim that the Mumbai attackers had trained in camps in Azad Kashmir as well as implied threats that India could launch attacks on such camps are noteworthy in this respect. It is suggested that a successful Indian military operation in Kashmir would effectively exclude Pakistan as a party to the dispute and weaken the independence movement therein to enable India to force a political settlement on its own terms. The third view is that the Mumbai operation was part of an Indo-Israeli-US conspiracy with the larger objective of denuclearising Pakistan. The immediate objective could be to prove to the world that the Pakistani security establishment is incapable of controlling the militant establishment which can hijack the country’s nuclear arsenal. If this is indeed the case, one can expect more such sponsored attacks. The latter explanations may sound preposterous, given that half a dozen US and Israeli citizens and more than 100 Indians have been killed. This kind of modus operandi is, however, not unknown in the world of covert intelligence operations. Of course, it was necessary for the nature and scale of the attack to be audacious, the targets high profile and symbolic, and the death toll high if the desired ends were to be attained. The actual involvement of Pakistani nationals is irrelevant. Anybody in the world could have covertly hired any number of Pakistanis to carry out the operation for them. Herein lies the catch for Pakistan. Of the above three scenarios, all of them may be true, none of them may be true, or some of them may be partly true. That, however, is not relevant. What is relevant is the fact that Pakistanis could have been hired by foreign elements. This implies that there are enough Pakistanis with the necessary ideological mentoring to be available for jihadist operations. And these jihadis do not emerge as individual products. Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organisational, financial and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the jihadis. Clearly, such an infrastructure cannot exist and operate without an element of tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state agencies. Otherwise, how is it possible that sophisticated arms can be stockpiled in the centre of the capital city, Islamabad, enabling the ‘students’ of Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsa to fight the Pakistan Army for days? How is it possible that A.Q. Khan can engage in worldwide nuclear smuggling without the intelligence agencies deputed to protect him failing to discover his operations? How is it possible that hundreds of firearms are brought out and liberally used in clashes in Karachi and the intelligence agencies cannot identify the source and supply channels of such arms? Apart from the bloody mayhem these outfits may or may not be causing in neighbouring countries, they have certainly torn Pakistani society apart. Either the nation’s intelligence agencies are completely incompetent or totally complicit. If it is the former, then the country is in mortal danger. If a mere imam of a mosque can stockpile arms or if a high-security state official can smuggle sensitive material out of the country then it must be equally possible for an enemy country to smuggle in its agents and arms for internal sabotage in the event of a war. If it is the latter, then the criminal adventurism of the self-styled protectors of national interest is bestowing on the country international disdain and endangering its stability and security. In the 1980s, the ‘non-state actors’ paradigm was used within the ambit of the US and western global strategy. Understandably, no aspersions were cast internationally with respect to the legitimacy of the means being employed. Of course, the paradigm was irresponsible and criminal then and is equally so now. The difference is that, in the current global scenario, US patronage is no longer available and this paradigm is simply unacceptable. The cost that Pakistan will have to pay for continuing such a course of action will be exorbitant. It is likely that the stage can be set for US-led international forces to carry out an operation aimed at eliminating the presumed capacity to mount terrorist operations abroad — and to prevent nuclear weapons from falling into the wrong hands. Given, however, that India will be a partner in any such operation, an attempt will be made to disable our intelligence capability altogether. The implications for national security will be grave. It would, therefore, be prudent for the country’s security leadership to undertake to renounce the highly counterproductive use of non-state actors as a policy tool and launch a full-fledged clean-up operation on their own initiative. An operation of some sort is currently underway. That is not sufficient. The leadership of jihadi organisations may appear fierce with their bushy beards and fiery rhetoric. However, a more potent danger is posed by their handlers. Pakistan’s security demands that these handlers be neutralised.       From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 17 17:23:34 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:23:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir Message-ID: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> The Indian media has been expressing surprise about the high voter turnouts in the Kashmir elections. The expression of surprise sounds genuine. I am not sure how genuine it is. Nationalism must be coming in the way of truth. How can we not see what a Wall Street Journal reporter can? EXCERPT: In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be sorry later." [Must Read] And wasn't this predicted anyway? Didn't we tell you about Gentle Persuasion? Oh, and they already know who the CM is going to be. Wasn't this predicted anyway? [1] http://kafila.org/2008/10/05/gentle-persuasion-in-kashmir/ [2] http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/op.htm#1 shivam o o o A New Tack in Kashmir Peaceful Protest Gains in Separatist Fight By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV DECEMBER 15, 2008 SRINAGAR, India -- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930169820005503.html Lashkar-e-Taiba, the presumed perpetrator of last month's Mumbai attacks, sprang up from the bloody insurgency against Indian rule in predominantly Muslim Kashmir. While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the decades-long armed struggle is waning in the disputed region itself. India now largely faces a different, and potentially more challenging foe here: peaceful campaigners for self-determination, who borrow from Mahatma Gandhi's rule book of non-violent resistance. "India is not scared of the guns here in Kashmir -- it has a thousand times more guns. What it is scared of is people coming out in the streets, people seeing the power of nonviolent struggle," says the Muslim Kashmiris' spiritual leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of the civil disobedience campaign that began earlier this year. The number of armed attacks in the valley, meanwhile, has dropped to its lowest since the insurgency began in 1989, Indian officials say. The former princely state known as Jammu and Kashmir was divided between India and Pakistan since 1947, and has been claimed in its entirety by both ever since. It has long been the main axis of discord between the two neighbors, now both nuclear-armed. Since the early 1990s, Pakistan's intelligence services trained and financed Kashmiri militant groups such as Lashkar, helping fuel a conflict that has cost 60,000 lives. Mr. Farooq's father was gunned down by suspected jihadi militants in 1990 for seeming too accommodating to India. Mr. Farooq, who heads the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference, an umbrella group of Kashmiri parties that want independence or merger with Pakistan, has been kept under house arrest. Kashmir's Grand Mosque in Srinagar, where Mr. Farooq usually delivers the weekly sermon, has stood empty for several Fridays, its gates ringed by barbed wire and its perimeter patrolled by troops. The rest of Srinagar, Kashmir's tense capital city, has been under curfew for days. Fearful of mass demonstrations against Indian rule and controversial elections, troops blocked the roads. Every few hours, small clashes broke out with stone-hurling teenagers. Fading Attacks Earlier this year, unarmed protests organized by Mr. Farooq and other separatist campaigners rocked Kashmir, causing the downfall of the state government as demonstrators thronged the roads waving green banners of Islam and chanting "Azadi" -- "Freedom." Militant attacks, once a daily occurrence that drove out 300,000 Kashmiri Hindus, have become much less frequent. Indian officials say as few as 600 armed insurgents remain in Jammu and Kashmir. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of a Kashmiri civil-disobedience campaign that began earlier this year, is now kept under house arrest by Indian troops. Here he leads a 2007 protest in front of his ancestral home. The changing nature of the separatist struggle makes it increasingly difficult for India to portray the conflict over Kashmir as a clear-cut fight between the world's largest democracy and murderous terrorists. Unlike Lashkar's jihadis, unarmed protesters in Kashmir can muster sympathy from sections of Western, and Indian, public opinion. "It's justified when you kill a militant, but it's not justified when you kill a demonstrator," says Kashmir's leading pro-Indian politician Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, India's home minister at the peak of the Kashmiri insurgency and Kashmir's chief minister in 2002-2005. Many among the new generation of Kashmiri protesters say they are happy that the insurgents no longer prowl the streets, demanding shelter and food from civilians, enforcing rigid Islamic observance -- and attracting army reprisals. "It's good that the militants are gone. What we need is to fight for our freedom in a peaceful environment," says 22-year-old farmer Tanha Gul from the town of Pulwama south of Srinagar, who says he has participated in every demonstration in his area. Indian officials acknowledge the change in popular attitudes. "People want peace. Nobody wants to be disturbed in the evening - not by the militants, and not by the forces," says Kashmir's chief of police, B. Srinivas. Still, responding to recent demonstrations, Indian troops often resorted to lethal force, killing more than 50 Kashmiri civilians. Scores of protesters and separatist politicians have been thrown behind bars or placed under house arrest. Indian officials say these detentions are necessary to preserve public peace, and that the troops have to use force to maintain law and order. Some half a million Indian soldiers and policemen remain deployed in the Indian-administered part of Jammu and Kashmir, home to 10 million people. (About 5 million people live in Pakistani-held Kashmir.) Indian laws grant troops in Kashmir almost total immunity from prosecution, including in cases of civilian deaths. Srinagar, once India's prime tourist destination, is dotted by checkpoints, its indoor stadium, cinemas and hotels surrounded by sandbags and converted into military camps. Broadcast media are censored. New restrictions have been added in recent months, such as an order to disable mobile-phone text messaging -- a key method of mobilizing protesters -- on cellphone networks that operate in Kashmir. The event that sparked these protests, bringing Kashmiri civilians into the streets, was a decision last May by the state government to transfer land near the Amarnath to a Hindu religious organization. This land near the shrine -- a cave in which an ice stalagmite forms every winter -- has been used for years to shelter pilgrims. But large tracts of the region already are requisitioned for army and police use, and the formal transfer stoked fears of a widespread land grab. Snowballing Protests In June, snowballing Kashmiri protests over the issue prompted Mr. Mufti Muhammad's People's Democratic Party to withdraw from the state government. The following month the collapsing state government revoked the land transfer decision. As federal rule was imposed, fresh riots broke out in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu part of the state. While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the armed struggle is waning in the disputed region. At the peak of Kashmir's peach and pear season, Hindu protesters in Jammu blocked the only highway linking the valley with the rest of India. With the fruit harvest -- the valley's key export -- rotting away, Kashmir's fruit growers' union called for opening an alternative trade route -- through Pakistani-held Kashmir. Defying curfew orders, on Aug. 10 thousands of fruit growers and separatist activists marched towards the cease-fire line. The protest column was met with gunfire from Indian forces. Fifteen marchers were shot dead, including a prominent separatist. As Kashmir descended into chaos after these killings, India responded with increasingly severe curfews and lockdowns that continue. Often they come without prior warning or formal announcement, as in Srinagar over the past weekend. "Common people like me are made to suffer continually," says Ghulam Rasool Sailani, a milk merchant who has been sitting at home in Srinagar, unable to trade, over the past three days. "It's hard. Our losses are huge because our incomes are so low." One of Mr. Sailani's regular clients was Mohammad Yacoub Jaan, a 35-year-old father of three. On Aug. 24, as he carried home a metallic milk container, Mr. Jaan encountered three policemen a few yards from his doorstep. As they beat Mr. Jaan with bamboo sticks for violating the curfew, the milk spilled from the container and soiled the officers' uniforms, according to Mr. Jaan and neighbors who say they witnessed the incident. They say an enraged officer opened fire with his assault rifle, shooting Mr. Jaan through the throat and the side. Hearing the shooting, Mr. Jaan's relatives rushed outdoors. As Mr. Jaan's 65-year-old father Ghulam Qadir tried to plead with policemen to stop beating his son, they shot at him too, the witnesses said. He was instantly killed. "After that, everyone just scattered away, their caps falling into the drains," recalls Mr. Jaan's wife, Asmat. Mr. Jaan, who remains paralyzed, says no representative of the authorities has contacted him since the shootings. Mr. Srinivas, the Kashmir chief of police, says that curfews and other restrictions are needed to prevent greater violence. "I don't want the peace-loving people of Srinagar to be disturbed by rogue elements," he says in an interview. As for allegations of abuse, he adds, investigations are under way. Anger Over Disparity Some pro-Indian Kashmiri politicians have been angered by the disparity they say security forces have shown when dealing with Hindu protests in Jammu and the Muslim demonstrations in Kashmir. "Lives are cheap in Kashmir," says Omar Abdullah, president of the National Conference party and India's former federal minister of state for external affairs. "I'm still struggling to understand how the same chain of command had two completely different approaches to crowd control." Kashmir's information secretary, K.B. Jandial, says there was no disparity, and that every individual incident has to be considered separately. Mr. Abdullah's party, the biggest in the previous legislature, is currently battling for the right to form the next state government in elections that began last month and end on Dec. 24. Even though separatist parties have called for a boycott, the turnout so far is among the highest on record. Indian officials view such high participation as a rebuke to Pakistan and Pakistani-backed separatists. But many voters who lined up at the polls Saturday in south Kashmir, for example, also turned out at anti-Indian protest marches weeks earlier. In the town of Tral, 20-year-old student Manzur Ahmad said that he was voting for an incumbent candidate because, in recent years, the lawmaker had managed to curb the harassment of local youths by government forces. "We vote because this makes our lives easier - but this doesn't mean we don't want freedom," he said. In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be sorry later." In another south Kashmiri village, Koeil, a similar police effort to round up voters degenerated into clashes with stone-throwing youths. As a reporter arrived on the scene, dozens of police officers charged along the main street, firing tear-gas volleys. Many policemen also picked up rocks and hurled them into villagers' homes, breaking windows. "My boys are irritated. They just want to let them know we're here, to scare them," the district senior superintendent of police who oversaw the operation, Ali Mohammad Bhatt, said when asked about the window-breaking. "Ultimately, if you restrain your force and don't kill anybody, your job is done," Mr. Bhatt added. Half an hour later, Indian forces in the village opened fire at the protesters, killing a 20-year-old student and seriously injuring three others, including a 14-year-old boy whose arm and intestines were pierced by high-velocity Kalashnikov bullets. "Once you take the law into your hands, the forces or police have to take action," the Jammu and Kashmir information secretary, Mr. Jandial, said when asked about the shootings. As for allegations of voter coercion, he said he wasn't aware of any: "If ever there is a coercion, it's on the part of people pressing for a boycott." Continuing bloodshed may end up reversing Kashmir's recent shift towards unarmed campaigning. Sitting on the porch of a shuttered store near Srinagar's Grand Mosque, two former insurgents bristled with anger this weekend. Then, one of them, Iqbal Sheikh, spat on the ground and said: "When the small kids who throw stones are met with bullets, many people want to take up guns again." Write to Yaroslav Trofimov at yaroslav.trofimov at wsj.com From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 17 17:25:37 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:25:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pandits overcome distance and cynicism, join J-K electoral process In-Reply-To: <6353c690812170314t5f53ebfcs2b31699d2f634937@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812170314y364bfd54g488eca03cbea4e46@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690812170314t5f53ebfcs2b31699d2f634937@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1fd66c110812170355v5fc1195auaf93d64643e4e1d4@mail.gmail.com> Very strange story. The whole story says how minuscule is the number of people who are voting, who are interested. All the quotes say we couldn't care less. People who have settled down in Delhi, working with MNCs (as one of them in the story is) will obviously be more interested in the Delhi elections. But the title and the intro of the story are like, yay, Pandits voting long distance and defeating the enemy! They don't need that yaar, Indian army hai na! On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Pandits overcome distance and cynicism, join J-K electoral process > > *Geeta Gupta * Posted: > Dec 17, 2008 at 0119 hrs IST - Indian Express > > Link - > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pandits-overcome-distance-and-cynicism-join-jk-electoral-process/399431/ > ** > ** > > *New Delhi:* Pandit migrants living in Delhi for nearly 20 years now are > voting long distance to keep their stake in Jammu and Kashmir alive. > > At least 40 people have voted so far in the last five phases through the > postal ballot, and 59 others have already filled their Migrant forms > (M-forms) to cast their votes on Wednesday, when South Srinagar district > goes to the polls in the sixth phase. > > Srinagar district has the highest number of Pandit votes at 23,796, most of > who migrated to different parts of the country after violence broke out in > the Valley in the 1990s. > > "We are Kashmiris before Pandits. I am very happy that the people of Kashmir > have come out in large numbers to vote this time, despite threats and > boycott calls by the separatists," Rashneek Kher, a 27-year-old Kashmiri > Pandit, said. He migrated with his family from Badgam at the age of 16. > Today, he is married and has a three-year-old daughter. He works with a > multinational company in Faridabad, as head of logistics department. Kher is > registered as a voter in Badgam but says he has never voted. "I will never > vote till I am given a chance to vote in the place where I belong," he said. > Pandit migrants in Delhi feel the entire exercise of voting is futile and > the process too cumbersome. A lot of voters blame the tedious and very > complicated process of filling up migrant forms for the small number of > votes sent. "Not more than 40 people voted in the first five phases. But at > least 59 voters have registered to vote tomorrow by filling up the M-forms," > an election officer at the Prithviraj Road polling station said. > > For the sixth phase tomorrow, Kashmiri Pandits will be able to cast their > votes at two places in Delhi, Kashmir House on Prithviraj Road and the > office of the Deputy Director Horticulture, Shalimar Bagh. > > "I am not interested in voting and the entire process is too futile. The > younger generation really doesn't bother about this farce of an election > process. We are anyway a minority and our votes don't matter," Rahul > Pandita, a 32-year-old Pandit migrant living in Delhi for the last 14 years, > said. > > Meanwhile, an Internet campaign has been taken up by the Delhi-based > Kashmiri Visthapit Sangarsh Samiti (KVSS), seeking "100 per cent KP voting" > in absentia. The organisation is sending out strong worded emails, > motivating people to check their names in the electoral list and fill in the > M-forms, as their "inaction will only benefit the enemy". > > "With over 10 Kashmiri Pandit candidates contesting from various national > parties, it's a win-win situation for us," S K Bhat, General Secretary, > KVSS, said. > > Habba Kadal and Amira Kadal are two areas in the Valley that have a strong > Pandit population. As many as 10 Pandit candidates have filed their > nominations from the Habba Kadal constituency, including one from the BJP, > one from the Congress, one from the Lok Janshakti Party, and independent > sitting MLA Raman Mattoo. Amira Kadal too has one Pandit candidate standing > from the BJP, one from the People's Democratic Front. > > "Not many people are able to vote as the process of registration is not > technically sound. Also, polling happens on working days in Delhi and most > voters are employed here with the private sector and might not get a day > off," Bhat said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- mail at shivamvij dot com From ravig64 at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 18:30:18 2008 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:30:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Announcement vulture readings Message-ID: *'The Vulture Readings.'* *Interaction and Reflections on Ecology and Extinctions * *48 deg C, Public Eco Art Project, Max Muller Bhavan, * *4 pm to 6 pm, December 18th, 2008* ** *Speakers:* *Confirmed:* Rana Dasgupta (writer), Salil Chatruvedi (Poet), Vikram Soni (Physist) *Invited - * - Sheeba Chhachhi (Artist), Amar Kanwar (Artist) Moderator : Ravi Agarwal and the Audience ============================================================= *"It is true, we all seem to be going somewhere. Very fast, and quick. The question is where? All around us, there are extinctions, as things get blurred and we cannot see what we step on, all sacrificed for the sake of the journey. But where does the journey lead to – what would we have learnt during it, that will form our future. It may be said that the barrenness will be fertilized with new dreams, new hopes and new possibilities. Yet, is that true? Do we really believe in this idea, or is the speed of the present so exhilarating that we cannot make sense of the landscape any more, since it is so very fuzzy? Maybe we are scared to see that it may be barren, very, very barren.* *It seems 'knowledge has substituted the 'knowing' of things.* *Our 'ecologies' seem to be changing. In the way we relate to the city, or the manner in which our network of relationships functions. In the extinction of natural systems, of a biodiversity of ideas and connections, the discourse is reduced.* *When wisdom passes, do the wise pass on too?* * * From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 19:05:26 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:35:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <597649.16024.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shivam   One more pathetic attempt by you to generate suspicions against the Elections in Kashmir. You tried it at the time of the PHASE 1 but sensibly kept your mouth shut when all Media (including that supportive of the separatists) validated the high turnout.   In the your frenzy of wanting to say something Anti-India, you lose your sense of balanced evaluation. Yours is not self-critical analysis but blatant Anti-India propaganda.   You have called the Elections in Kashmir "A cruel Joke" and then go on to imply that the high turnout reports might surprise others (blinded by Nationalism) but do not surprise you because you see the totality of the reported surprisingly high turnout as a falsehood and the truth lies in the example of coercion reported by the WSJ journalist extending itself to being the norm for the complete truth.   Unfortunately for you, the actual high turnout physical presence of people (voters) at the polling booths has been extensively covered/reported/recorded by the Media including the Media channels seen as supportive of the separatists. So you cannot use the propagandist position at the time of the vote count that votes have 'appeared' while people did not cast them.   Your Anti-India propagandist attempt is therfore to create the suspicion that the high turnout was because those high numbers of people were coerced/threatened into going to the polling booths and casting their votes.   I have always implored you to think before spouting nonsense. So, think Shivam. If there were such a gulf between the 'reported high turnout' and 'disinterest in voting' surely we would see (not just the occasional WSJ kind of report) but a barrage of news reports talking about the coercion tactics employed to force people to vote. At the very least the Media channels seen as being supportive of the separatists/boycotters would be flooded with such reports. They have not been.   What seems to have been done is that the Phase-wise constituencies where the elections were to take place have been by and large insulated from organised demonstration by the boycotters. Nothing wrong in that. Those who want to boycott can do so. They want to stay away and stay away they should and not impede others who want to vote. Those who want to vote should be facilitated by creating a sense of physical security for them to vote in.   Incidentally, the example of coercion that you have extracted from the WSJ report is one not witnessed by the WSJ reporter himself. He talks about 'a reporter' having seen it.   I asked myself if I should have used the word 'nonsense' above. So I reviewed the texts.   I reiterate. Yours is a pathetic attempt at spouting Anti-India propagandist nonsense.   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 12/17/08, Shivam V wrote: From: Shivam V Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir To: "SARAI" , foil-I at insaf.net Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 5:23 PM The Indian media has been expressing surprise about the high voter turnouts in the Kashmir elections. The expression of surprise sounds genuine. I am not sure how genuine it is. Nationalism must be coming in the way of truth. How can we not see what a Wall Street Journal reporter can? EXCERPT: In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be sorry later." [Must Read] And wasn't this predicted anyway? Didn't we tell you about Gentle Persuasion? Oh, and they already know who the CM is going to be. Wasn't this predicted anyway? [1] http://kafila.org/2008/10/05/gentle-persuasion-in-kashmir/ [2] http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/op.htm#1 shivam o o o A New Tack in Kashmir Peaceful Protest Gains in Separatist Fight By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV DECEMBER 15, 2008 SRINAGAR, India -- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930169820005503.html Lashkar-e-Taiba, the presumed perpetrator of last month's Mumbai attacks, sprang up from the bloody insurgency against Indian rule in predominantly Muslim Kashmir. While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the decades-long armed struggle is waning in the disputed region itself. India now largely faces a different, and potentially more challenging foe here: peaceful campaigners for self-determination, who borrow from Mahatma Gandhi's rule book of non-violent resistance. "India is not scared of the guns here in Kashmir -- it has a thousand times more guns. What it is scared of is people coming out in the streets, people seeing the power of nonviolent struggle," says the Muslim Kashmiris' spiritual leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of the civil disobedience campaign that began earlier this year. The number of armed attacks in the valley, meanwhile, has dropped to its lowest since the insurgency began in 1989, Indian officials say. The former princely state known as Jammu and Kashmir was divided between India and Pakistan since 1947, and has been claimed in its entirety by both ever since. It has long been the main axis of discord between the two neighbors, now both nuclear-armed. Since the early 1990s, Pakistan's intelligence services trained and financed Kashmiri militant groups such as Lashkar, helping fuel a conflict that has cost 60,000 lives. Mr. Farooq's father was gunned down by suspected jihadi militants in 1990 for seeming too accommodating to India. Mr. Farooq, who heads the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference, an umbrella group of Kashmiri parties that want independence or merger with Pakistan, has been kept under house arrest. Kashmir's Grand Mosque in Srinagar, where Mr. Farooq usually delivers the weekly sermon, has stood empty for several Fridays, its gates ringed by barbed wire and its perimeter patrolled by troops. The rest of Srinagar, Kashmir's tense capital city, has been under curfew for days. Fearful of mass demonstrations against Indian rule and controversial elections, troops blocked the roads. Every few hours, small clashes broke out with stone-hurling teenagers. Fading Attacks Earlier this year, unarmed protests organized by Mr. Farooq and other separatist campaigners rocked Kashmir, causing the downfall of the state government as demonstrators thronged the roads waving green banners of Islam and chanting "Azadi" -- "Freedom." Militant attacks, once a daily occurrence that drove out 300,000 Kashmiri Hindus, have become much less frequent. Indian officials say as few as 600 armed insurgents remain in Jammu and Kashmir. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of a Kashmiri civil-disobedience campaign that began earlier this year, is now kept under house arrest by Indian troops. Here he leads a 2007 protest in front of his ancestral home. The changing nature of the separatist struggle makes it increasingly difficult for India to portray the conflict over Kashmir as a clear-cut fight between the world's largest democracy and murderous terrorists. Unlike Lashkar's jihadis, unarmed protesters in Kashmir can muster sympathy from sections of Western, and Indian, public opinion. "It's justified when you kill a militant, but it's not justified when you kill a demonstrator," says Kashmir's leading pro-Indian politician Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, India's home minister at the peak of the Kashmiri insurgency and Kashmir's chief minister in 2002-2005. Many among the new generation of Kashmiri protesters say they are happy that the insurgents no longer prowl the streets, demanding shelter and food from civilians, enforcing rigid Islamic observance -- and attracting army reprisals. "It's good that the militants are gone. What we need is to fight for our freedom in a peaceful environment," says 22-year-old farmer Tanha Gul from the town of Pulwama south of Srinagar, who says he has participated in every demonstration in his area. Indian officials acknowledge the change in popular attitudes. "People want peace. Nobody wants to be disturbed in the evening - not by the militants, and not by the forces," says Kashmir's chief of police, B. Srinivas. Still, responding to recent demonstrations, Indian troops often resorted to lethal force, killing more than 50 Kashmiri civilians. Scores of protesters and separatist politicians have been thrown behind bars or placed under house arrest. Indian officials say these detentions are necessary to preserve public peace, and that the troops have to use force to maintain law and order. Some half a million Indian soldiers and policemen remain deployed in the Indian-administered part of Jammu and Kashmir, home to 10 million people. (About 5 million people live in Pakistani-held Kashmir.) Indian laws grant troops in Kashmir almost total immunity from prosecution, including in cases of civilian deaths. Srinagar, once India's prime tourist destination, is dotted by checkpoints, its indoor stadium, cinemas and hotels surrounded by sandbags and converted into military camps. Broadcast media are censored. New restrictions have been added in recent months, such as an order to disable mobile-phone text messaging -- a key method of mobilizing protesters -- on cellphone networks that operate in Kashmir. The event that sparked these protests, bringing Kashmiri civilians into the streets, was a decision last May by the state government to transfer land near the Amarnath to a Hindu religious organization. This land near the shrine -- a cave in which an ice stalagmite forms every winter -- has been used for years to shelter pilgrims. But large tracts of the region already are requisitioned for army and police use, and the formal transfer stoked fears of a widespread land grab. Snowballing Protests In June, snowballing Kashmiri protests over the issue prompted Mr. Mufti Muhammad's People's Democratic Party to withdraw from the state government. The following month the collapsing state government revoked the land transfer decision. As federal rule was imposed, fresh riots broke out in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu part of the state. While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the armed struggle is waning in the disputed region. At the peak of Kashmir's peach and pear season, Hindu protesters in Jammu blocked the only highway linking the valley with the rest of India. With the fruit harvest -- the valley's key export -- rotting away, Kashmir's fruit growers' union called for opening an alternative trade route -- through Pakistani-held Kashmir. Defying curfew orders, on Aug. 10 thousands of fruit growers and separatist activists marched towards the cease-fire line. The protest column was met with gunfire from Indian forces. Fifteen marchers were shot dead, including a prominent separatist. As Kashmir descended into chaos after these killings, India responded with increasingly severe curfews and lockdowns that continue. Often they come without prior warning or formal announcement, as in Srinagar over the past weekend. "Common people like me are made to suffer continually," says Ghulam Rasool Sailani, a milk merchant who has been sitting at home in Srinagar, unable to trade, over the past three days. "It's hard. Our losses are huge because our incomes are so low." One of Mr. Sailani's regular clients was Mohammad Yacoub Jaan, a 35-year-old father of three. On Aug. 24, as he carried home a metallic milk container, Mr. Jaan encountered three policemen a few yards from his doorstep. As they beat Mr. Jaan with bamboo sticks for violating the curfew, the milk spilled from the container and soiled the officers' uniforms, according to Mr. Jaan and neighbors who say they witnessed the incident. They say an enraged officer opened fire with his assault rifle, shooting Mr. Jaan through the throat and the side. Hearing the shooting, Mr. Jaan's relatives rushed outdoors. As Mr. Jaan's 65-year-old father Ghulam Qadir tried to plead with policemen to stop beating his son, they shot at him too, the witnesses said. He was instantly killed. "After that, everyone just scattered away, their caps falling into the drains," recalls Mr. Jaan's wife, Asmat. Mr. Jaan, who remains paralyzed, says no representative of the authorities has contacted him since the shootings. Mr. Srinivas, the Kashmir chief of police, says that curfews and other restrictions are needed to prevent greater violence. "I don't want the peace-loving people of Srinagar to be disturbed by rogue elements," he says in an interview. As for allegations of abuse, he adds, investigations are under way. Anger Over Disparity Some pro-Indian Kashmiri politicians have been angered by the disparity they say security forces have shown when dealing with Hindu protests in Jammu and the Muslim demonstrations in Kashmir. "Lives are cheap in Kashmir," says Omar Abdullah, president of the National Conference party and India's former federal minister of state for external affairs. "I'm still struggling to understand how the same chain of command had two completely different approaches to crowd control." Kashmir's information secretary, K.B. Jandial, says there was no disparity, and that every individual incident has to be considered separately. Mr. Abdullah's party, the biggest in the previous legislature, is currently battling for the right to form the next state government in elections that began last month and end on Dec. 24. Even though separatist parties have called for a boycott, the turnout so far is among the highest on record. Indian officials view such high participation as a rebuke to Pakistan and Pakistani-backed separatists. But many voters who lined up at the polls Saturday in south Kashmir, for example, also turned out at anti-Indian protest marches weeks earlier. In the town of Tral, 20-year-old student Manzur Ahmad said that he was voting for an incumbent candidate because, in recent years, the lawmaker had managed to curb the harassment of local youths by government forces. "We vote because this makes our lives easier - but this doesn't mean we don't want freedom," he said. In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be sorry later." In another south Kashmiri village, Koeil, a similar police effort to round up voters degenerated into clashes with stone-throwing youths. As a reporter arrived on the scene, dozens of police officers charged along the main street, firing tear-gas volleys. Many policemen also picked up rocks and hurled them into villagers' homes, breaking windows. "My boys are irritated. They just want to let them know we're here, to scare them," the district senior superintendent of police who oversaw the operation, Ali Mohammad Bhatt, said when asked about the window-breaking. "Ultimately, if you restrain your force and don't kill anybody, your job is done," Mr. Bhatt added. Half an hour later, Indian forces in the village opened fire at the protesters, killing a 20-year-old student and seriously injuring three others, including a 14-year-old boy whose arm and intestines were pierced by high-velocity Kalashnikov bullets. "Once you take the law into your hands, the forces or police have to take action," the Jammu and Kashmir information secretary, Mr. Jandial, said when asked about the shootings. As for allegations of voter coercion, he said he wasn't aware of any: "If ever there is a coercion, it's on the part of people pressing for a boycott." Continuing bloodshed may end up reversing Kashmir's recent shift towards unarmed campaigning. Sitting on the porch of a shuttered store near Srinagar's Grand Mosque, two former insurgents bristled with anger this weekend. Then, one of them, Iqbal Sheikh, spat on the ground and said: "When the small kids who throw stones are met with bullets, many people want to take up guns again." Write to Yaroslav Trofimov at yaroslav.trofimov at wsj.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 15:27:45 2008 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:27:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <564b2fca0812170157v62bcb262ndc556b229da9c51c@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SANSAD Date: 17 Dec 2008 08:22 Subject: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma To: List Suppressed Dear friends: The Mumbai dust has not settled yet. National jingoism and war cries are keeping it afloat and churning. Sonia Gandhi has promised tougher anti-terrorism laws, as if that would eliminate the underlying causes of terrorism. The RSS Chief is calling for nuking Pakistan; and maybe, a Third World War, to "cleanse the world of evil". But other voices are also coming in large measures, from around the world and from both sides of the India-Pakistan divide. We forward to you, first, a piece by Arundhati Roy, "The Monster in the Mirror". There are phrases and labels in it I disagree with, but it is, once again, a charateristic Arundhati Roy piece. Profoundly perceptive, passionate, concerned and alarmed. Its poetry gives body to its prose. Thank you, Arundhati. The second piece is from the other side of the border. the noted Nuclear Physicist, the peace activist, the never-tiring good voice of the people of Pakistan, Parvez Hoodbhoy. Then, there is a piece by the celebrated film-maker Anand Patwardhan. Times of India refused to publish this excellent article; that's all the more reason for us to disseminate it. And finally, there is a link for a podcast of a radio interview I had locally in Vancouver, on December 6, the anniversary of the Babri Masjid demolition. hari sharma for SANSAD 1/4 *The monster in the mirror* *The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including an attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with justice, or face civil war*. - [image: static.guim.co.uk/7F9E2D96.jpg] - Arundhati Roy - guardian.co.uk , Saturday 13 December 2008 00.01 GMT - Article history [image: static.guim.co.uk/1216CB21.jpg] Azam Amir Kasab, the face of the Mumbai attacks. Photograph: Reuters We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching "India's 9/11". Like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, even though we know it's all been said and done before. As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned Pakistan that if it didn't act fast to arrest the "Bad Guys" he had personal information that India would launch air strikes on "terrorist camps" in Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's 9/11. But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that we can arrive at our own conclusions. It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn Kupwara - one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong in this country. If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre. We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and the staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said "Hungry,* kya*?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't* that* war. That one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic cities. That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal with the one that is. There is a fierce, unforgiving fault-line that runs through the contemporary discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who see terrorism, especially "Islamist" terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with the world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or even try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself. Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, it exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, certainly bolsters the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy and believes that jihad should be waged until Islam,* his* Islam, rules the world. Among the things he said are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." And: "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the Hindus, just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire Š we hacked, burned, set on fire Š we believe in setting them on fire because these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it Š I have just one last wish Š let me be sentenced to death Š I don't care if I'm hanged ... just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs [seven or eight hundred thousand] of these people stay ... I will finish them off Š let a few more of them die ... at least 25,000 to 50,000 should die." And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or, Our Nationhood Defined by MS Golwalkar, who became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening." Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races - the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here ... a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by." (Of course Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in Orissa, Christians were the target of two and a half months of violence which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from their homes, half of who now live in refugee camps.) All these years Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud Daawa, which many believe is a front organization for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. He continues to recruit young boys for his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11 the UN imposed sanctions on the Jammat-ud-Daawa. The Pakistani government succumbed to international pressure and put Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and lives the life of a respectable man in Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide he left the VHP to join the Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate houses, Reliance and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said: "Modi is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. The RSS has 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and 7 million volunteers preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, but also former prime minister AB Vajpayee, current leader of the opposition LK Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and intelligence officers. If that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations within India preaching their own narrow bigotry. So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick Side B. We need context. Always. In this nuclear subcontinent that context is partition. The Radcliffe Line, which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was drawn virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million people, Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new* kind* of India left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, hate, horror but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of the Pure, became an Islamic Republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, violent military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea of India even before it was born. By 1990 they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992 Hindu mobs exhorted by LK Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998 the BJP was in power at the centre. The US war on terror put the wind in their sails. It allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and then present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international finance and it was in the interests of international corporations and the media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. That gave Hindu nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the subcontinent and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Taiba is from Shimla (India) and LK Advani of the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). In much the same way as it did after the 2001 parliament attack, the 2002 burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta Express, the government of India announced that it has "incontrovertible" evidence that the Lashkar-e-Taiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies the Lashkar operates in India through an organisation called the Indian Mujahideen. Two Indian nationals, Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working for the Jammu and Kashmir police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata in West Bengal, have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy. Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated global network of foot soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives working not just on both sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries simultaneously. In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike and isolate it within the borders of a single nation state is very much like trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost impossible. In circumstances like these, air strikes to "take out" terrorist camps may take out the camps, but certainly will not "take out" the terrorists. Neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try not to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, were trained by the Indian army.) Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally first in its war in* support* of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war* against*them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these contradictions, is careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jihad against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI to nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organizations. Having wired up these Frankensteins and released them into the world, the US expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in heart of the Homeland on September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently remade. Now the debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training camps, the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their ire rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if not more than it does on India. If at this point India decides to go to war perhaps the descent of the whole region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. If Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of "non-state actors" with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as neighbours. It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country by*inviting * the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has agents. On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at "ground zero" kept up an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights we watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns and gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National Security Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered nation. While they did this they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, caste, religion or nationality. (Part of the helplessness of the security forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole buildings are blown up. Human shields are used. The U.S and Israeli armies don't hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was different. And it was on TV. The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill - and be killed - mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something different from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people have grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, not minutes, what that's worth. Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the standoff the terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we say "nothing can justify terrorism", what most of us mean is that nothing can justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea what to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, they've journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the attackers, who called himself Imran Babar. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things contained in the "terror emails" that were sent out before several other bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you surrender?" "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better to live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn't it matter to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism is a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the Big Picture, individuals don't figure in their calculations except as collateral damage. It has always been a part of and often even the* aim* of terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden faultlines. The blood of "martyrs" irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism is not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be a catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, a tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its acts of bestiality is Live TV. Even as the attack was being condemned by TV anchors, the effectiveness of the terror strikes were being magnified a thousandfold by TV broadcasts. Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in India at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead we had retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes unless their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and each state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death of former prime minster VP Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and villain of Upper caste Hindus pass without a mention. We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous "Why they hate us" speech. His analysis of why religious bigots, both Hindu and Muslim hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and an indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after 9/11? Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and leftwing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians,* all* politicians, glorifying the police and the army and virtually asking for a police state. It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The era of "pickings" is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. Dangerous, stupid television flashcards like the Police are Good Politicians are Bad/Chief Executives are Good Chief Ministers are Bad/Army is Good Government is Bad/ India is Good Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about by TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost uncontrollable hysteria. Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when people in India were beginning to see that in the business of terrorism, victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last 20 years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still learning. (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look as though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) It was after the 2001 parliament attack that the first serious questions began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including SAR Geelani, the man whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, Showkat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence. The supreme court upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In its judgment the court acknowledged there was no proof that Mohammed Afzal belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, "The collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender." Even today we don't really know who the terrorists that attacked the Indian parliament were and who they worked for. More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial "encounter" at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell of the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat under seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An assistant commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of India's many "encounter specialists" known and rewarded for having summarily executed several "terrorists". There was an outcry against the Special Cell from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local community to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, academics and activists all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. In response, the BJP and LK Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a "Braveheart" and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had dared to question the integrity of the police, saying it was "suicidal" and calling them "anti-national". Of course there has been no inquiry. Only days after the Batla House event, another story about "terrorists" surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to a sessions court, the CBI said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the Batla House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2kg of RDX and two pistols on them and then arrested them as "terrorists" who belonged to Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar who have spent years in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) that was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts arrested a Hindu preacher Sadhvi Pragya, a self-styled God man Swami Dayanand Pande and Lt Col Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian Army. All the arrested belong to Hindu Nationalist organizations including a Hindu Supremacist group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he was part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be terrorists". LK Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and made rabble rousing speeches to huge gatherings in which he denounced the ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. On the November 25 newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the high profile VHP Chief Pravin Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare was killed in the Mumbai Attacks. The chances are that the new chief whoever he is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the plate. He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My name and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab Goswami turned to camera: "Arundhati Royand Prashant Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as frenzied as the one that prevails today, amounts to incitement as well as threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her job. So according to a man aspiring to be the next prime minister of India, and another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have no right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a shadowy history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake "encounters". This in a country that boasts of the highest number of custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being "encountered" by our Encounter Specialists. A country where the line between the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? There are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as the United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since 9/11. However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. If the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing its true colors, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed greatly to the unraveling of the American economy and who knows, perhaps eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of this one too?) Hundreds of thousands people including thousands of American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of terrorist strikes on U.S allies/agents (including India) and U.S interests in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George Bush, the man who led the US response to 9/11 is a despised figure not just internationally, but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that the United States is winning the war on terror? Homeland Security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But even if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours* cannot* be secured or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir and a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than 150 million Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, whose young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose hope and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole world. If ten men can hold off the NSG commandos, and the police for three days, and if it takes half a million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? Nor for that matter will any other quick fix. Anti-terrorism laws are not meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. That's why they have a conviction rate of less than 2%. They're just a means of putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and eventually letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly likely to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to death. It's what they* want*. What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades of quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. The only way to contain (it would be naïve to say end) terrorism is to look at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One sign says Justice, the other Civil War. There's no third sign and there's no going back. Choose. ****************** 2/4 (This interview of Pervez Hoodbhoy was conducted by Cristina Otten for FOCUS. It may be found on-line in German at: http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/tid-12856/pakistan-die-menschen-s ind-blind-vor-hass_aid_355157.html A more readable pdf version is also attached.) THE MUMBAI MASSACRE AND PAKISTAN'S NEW NIGHTMARES CO: Tensions between Pakistan and India have been growing after the Mumbai attacks. Are we close to a military escalation? PH: In spite of vociferous demands by the Indian public, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's government has withstood the pressure to conduct cross-border strikes into Pakistan. Correspondingly, in spite of the bitter criticism by Islamic parties, Pakistan's government has moved against the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT), the jihadist organization that is almost certainly behind the attacks. ÝFor now, the tension has eased somewhat but another attack could push India over the fence. CO: What makes the LeT so different from other militant groups? Is Pakistan really moving against it? PH: LeT, one of the largest militant groups in Pakistan, was established over 15 years ago. It had the full support of the Pakistani military and Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) for over a decade because it focussed upon fighting Indian rule in Muslim Kashmir. Today it is one of the very few extremist groups left that does not attack the Pakistani army and state; in contrast almost all others have turned into fierce enemies. We now hear that a few members of LeT, who were named by India, have been arrested. Time will tell whether this was a serious move, or if this was a ruse to ease the enormous pressure against Pakistan. If serious, then the Army and ISI will have earned the bitter enmity of yet another former ally. They are afraid of a repeat of their experience with Jaish-e-Muhammad, a formerly supported Islamic militant group that now is responsible for extreme brutalities against of Pakistani soldiers captured in FATA, including torture and decapitations. It's a nightmarish situation for the Pakistan Army. Ý CO: How have Pakistanis reacted to the Mumbai massacre? PH: The initial reaction was of sympathy. I did not see any celebrations, contrary to those that I saw after 911. But then, as the Indian TV channels started accusing Pakistan and demanding that it be bombed in retaliation, the reaction turned to that of anger and flat denial - Pakistanis did not want to accept that this attack was done by Pakistanis or had been launched from Pakistani soil. Subsequently one saw amazing mental gymnastics. Popular TV anchors, and their guests, invoked far-out conspiracy theories. Years ago, some of the same anchors had confidently claimed that Kathmandu-Delhi Indian Airlines Flight 814 (IC814) had been hijacked by RAW to malign Pakistan. They had also ridiculed the notion that Pakistan was involved in the Kargil invasion. Now, pointing to the RSS hand in the Samjhota Express bombing, they are alternately ascribing the Mumbai attacks to radical Hindus, or to Jews and Americans. It is sad to see intelligent persons losing their marbles. Ý CO: Pakistan has always stressed that it will deliver the first nuclear strike if it feels threatened by India? Do you see any signs on the Pakistani sign to carry out its threat? PH: About a week before the Mumbai massacre, President Asif Ali Zardari had given the assurance that Pakistan would not use nuclear weapons first. India had announced a no first use policy almost ten years ago. But Zardari is not taken seriously by the Pakistani generals who actually control the Bomb, and the Indian NFU declaration is frankly of no consequence. Cross-border raids by India could well ignite a conventional war. If that happens, all bets are off and it could escalate without warning into a nuclear conflict. For many years US defence strategists, belonging to various think tanks and war colleges, have been simulating conflicts between Pakistan and India. They say that a conventional war will almost certainly lead to a nuclear conclusion. Fear of nuclear weapons has made deterrence work. More accurately, deterrence has worked only thus far.ÝNo guarantees can be given for the future. CO: Why did the assassins choose India instead of committing attacks against Western allies in Afghanistan? PH: LeT is based around Lahore, which is on the Pakistan-India border, in a town called Muridke. This has a huge militant training and charity complex. LeT's membership is mostly Punjabi, which makes it linguistically and culturally quite unsuited for fighting in Afghanistan. You could say that LeT is an India-specific, Kashmir-specific group. Indeed, over the years it has had many military successes in Kashmir against Indian forces. But LeT, like other militant groups in Pakistan, sees a nexus between Indians, Americans, and Israelis. Hence they are all seen as enemies and fair game. Ý CO: What did the Mumbai terrorists want? PH: No demands were made and all hostages were killed. So the purpose of the attack was never formally declared. On the other hand, the stated goals of LeT and similar organizations based in Pakistan leave little doubt. The attack clearly sought to hurt India's economy and its newly acquired reputation as an economic powerhouse, and to create a climate of war between India and Pakistan. If Pakistan moves its troops towards the eastern border the pressure on the Pakistani Taliban in FATA, which is close to the western border, would be lessened. Still another reason would be to encourage pogroms against Muslims in India. This would swell the ranks of the extremists,Ýand also have the added benefit of destabilizing both the Pakistani and Indian states. Finally, the attack was a means of releasing hatred against non-Muslims. Ý CO: What differences and parallels do you see between the Mumbai attacks and the attack in the in Marriott Hotel in Islamabad? PH: They were quite dissimilar in how they were executed. The Mumbai attacks were extremely intricate, used GPS and voice-over-internet protocols for communication purposes, involved extensive military training, and probably required planning over a period of a year. The goal was to kill foreigners, particularly Jews and Americans, although Muslims were also collateral casualties. On the other hand, the Marriot bombing in Islamabad was a relatively simple affair involving a single dump-truck with a suicide bomber, and its victims were principally Muslims. The basic purpose, however, was similar - to destabilize the Pakistani state, take revenge on the US (2 of the 58 killed were US marines), and raise the cost of war in Afghanistan and FATA. CO: In the West experts talk about a new dimension of terror in India. Do you also see tight connections between Lashkar-e-TaibaÝ and al-Qaida? PH: One is naturally tempted to guess a nexus between LeT and Al-Qaida. Of course, they do share similar goals. But in the world that extremists inhabit, mere similarity is insufficient - it has to be much closer than that because small ideological differences are amplified out of proportion. As yet there is no proof of joint operations or cooperation. So presently this is no more than a plausible hypothesis. CO: What role does Kashmir play in the current conflict? PH: Since 1987, Kashmir has been in a state of upheaval. Fraudulent elections conducted by India led to widespread resentment, followed by a horrifically bloody crackdown by Indian security forces. Pakistan's army saw opportunity in this, and waged a covert war in Kashmir using jihadists to "bleed India with a thousand cuts". The United Jihad Council, which oversees the activities of an estimated 22 Pakistan-based organizations, acts outside of the domain of the Pakistani state but it has had active support from the countryís army and intelligence agencies. The Kargil conflict in 1999 brought matters to a head when General Musharraf initiated a war with the assistance of jihadist forces. This inflicted severe damage on Indian forces but Pakistan was ultimately forced to withdraw. Jihadists subsequently celebrated General Musharraf as a hero, and vilified Nawaz Sharif for a cowardly surrender. CO: In January 2002, General Musharraf had declared that no groups on Pakistani territory would be permitted to launch cross-border attacks. Was this promise fulfilled? PH: Subsequently there indeed was a decline in cross-border infiltrations, and some lessening of the covert support given by Pakistani agencies. But this was far from zero and they maintained a strong presence. On a personal note: soon after the terrible October 8, 2005 earthquake, I had gone to various areas of Azad Kashmir for relief work. There I found the Lashkar-i-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Sipah-i-Sahaba, and other banned jihadist organizations operating openly and freely using military-style six-wheeled vehicles, as well as displaying their weapons. Their relief efforts were far better organized than that of the Pakistan army and, in fact, they were pulling injured soldiers out of the rubble. When I mentioned this fact to General Musharraf a few months later at a Kashmir peace conference, he was very angry at me for discussing a tabooed subject. CO: On the one hand, we have radical extremists in Pakistan who want to bring strict Islamic law into force and demonize the West. On the other hand, however, the government presents itself as a friend and ally of the United States. Could you please describe this antagonism and explain where it originates from? What does this tell us about the growth of extremism in Pakistan? PH: Radical extremism is the illegitimate offspring of a union between the United States under Ronald Reagan, and Pakistan under General Zia-ul-Haq. Twenty five years ago, the two countries had joined up to harness Islamic fighters for expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan. The US was quite happy to see radical Islam spreading because it served its goal at the time. Simultaneously, Pakistan saw a major social transformation under General Zia. Prayers in government departments were deemed compulsory, floggings were carried out publicly, punishments were meted out to those who did not fast in Ramadan, selection for university academic posts required that the candidate demonstrate knowledge of Islamic teachings, and jihad was declared essential for every Muslim. But today the government is in open conflict with the radicals. It has to deal with a spontaneous groundswell of Islamic zeal. The notion of an Islamic state - as yet in some amorphous and diffuse form - is more popular today than ever before as people look desperately for miracles to rescue a failing state. Even though the government and military in Pakistan are allied formally to the US, the people are strongly against the US. CO: What parts of the Pakistani society support al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden? PH: Baluchistan and Sind are far less supportive than Punjab or the NWFP. The amazing fact is that parts of Pakistan's upper class - which is very Westernized but also very anti-Western - also support the Islamists. I find it tragic that there is no uproar in the country when Taliban suicide bombers target mosques, funerals, hospitals, girls schools, and slaughter policemen and soldiers. People have become so anti-American that it has blinded them to these atrocities. Even the Pakistani left is thoroughly confused and mistakes the Taliban as anti-imperialist fighters. CO: And where do you stand on this matter? Do you see anything that the Islamists have to offer? PH: The people of Pakistan need and deserve everything that people everywhere else want. This means food, jobs, houses to live in, a system of justice and governance, and protection of life and property. Equally, people need freedom of worship and thought, education for both males and females, and protection of their freedom as summarized in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. These are everybody's primary needs. After this - a distinct second - come matters that deal with national sovereignty, foreign policy, various global issues, etc. Frankly, I cannot see Pakistanís Islamists offering anything positive. They are against population planning, educating females, tolerating other sects or religions, etc. They neither know the outside world, nor want to know it. All they know - and know well - is how to make war. Fortunately, as their rout in the recent elections showed, most Pakistanis do not want to live under their narrow doctrines and belief system. CO: President Asif AliÝ Zardari promised to hunt terrorists and to destroy terror camps in Pakistan? But his affirmations seem to be halfhearted. Can't he do more or doesn't he want do more? PH: It is not up to him to do more. The real power lies with the Pakistan Army, which is still undecided as to who the real enemy is. The Army has lost nearly two thousand soldiers in battles with extremists. But it still cannot convince itself that they constitute an existentialist threat to Pakistan. One can understand this reluctance. Over the years, officers and soldiers were recruited into the Army on the basis that they were defenders of Islam and would always fight India. Instead they now have to fight forces that claim to be even better defenders of Islam. Worse, they are no longer being called upon to fight India, which is what they were trained for. So there is confusion and demoralization, and practically zero public understanding or support. Therefore, Pakistani soldiers are not fighting well at all in FATA. Many have surrendered without a fight. CO: Do you support the government's war against extremists? PH: This is the first time in my life that I feel the Army should be supported, but only to the extent that it fights the extremists without killing innocents. Unfortunately, the Army's current tactic is to flatten villages suspected of harbouring terrorists. The collateral damage is huge and completely unacceptable. CO: Pakistan has armed and financed the Taliban after the US invasion of Afghanistan. The CIA pays Pakistan to arrest al-Qaeda operatives, but Pakistan uses the money to fund the Taliban resurgence in northwest Pakistan. Any changes under the new president? PH: It will take time - and perhaps still more suffering - to kick an old habit. Even though the Army is being literally slaughtered by the Taliban, it continues to make a distinction between the "good" and "bad" Taliban. The good ones are, by definition, those who attack only US/Nato or Indian interests in Afghanistan, but do not attack the Pakistan Army. The good ones are seen as essential for having a friendly Afghanistan when, as will surely happen some day, the Americans withdraw. Among the good Taliban are jihadist leaders such as Jalaludin Haqqani. On the other hand, Baitullah Mehsud or Maulana Fazlullah, are considered bad Taliban because they attack the Army and the state. Interestingly, Army inspired propaganda paints the bad Taliban as Indian agents - which is quite ridiculous. This false differentiation is the real reason for the Army's ambivalence and inability to deal effectively with the Taliban menace. CO: Pakistan is a nuclear state. Should we fear that one day the Taliban or al-Qaida could get access to the nuclear arsenal? PH: I am more worried about extremists having access to nuclear materials, particularly highly enriched uranium, rather than a completed weapon. Because of secrecy requirements, it is very difficult for outsiders to monitor the output of uranium enrichment or plutonium reprocessing plants. Interestingly, we are seeing a shift away from nuclear weapons in the West. The unusability of nuclear weapons by national states is being recognized even by mainstream politicians in the US and Europe because nuclear weapons now no longer guarantee the monopoly of power. This makes possible the ultimate de-legitimization of nuclear weapons, and hence winding down of fissile material production globally. This may be our best long-term hope of countering the nuclear terrorist threat, whether by Al-Qaida or other terrorist groups. Meanwhile, in the short term, great care must be given to watching over suspicious nuclear activities. CO: What should India do and what is your forecast for the region? PH: India should not attack Pakistan. This would be counter-productive in every possible way. Even if it wins a war, it will be a pyrrhic victory. On the other hand, a small attack can be no more than a pin-prick. This would do more harm than good because it will unite the army and the jihadists who, at this juncture in history, are in serious confrontation with each other. Worse, even a small attack could lead to large response, and then escalate out of control. Nuclear armed countries simply cannot afford skirmishes. I think India's demand for action against jihadist groups is entirely legitimate, but this must be done by Pakistan, which is susceptible to international pressure. To get rid of militants and extremists - whether Muslim or Hindu - is in the best interests of both Pakistan and India. CO: Will Pakistani extremists win or can the West still bring about a rebound? PH: It's a grim situation but not irreversible. The invasion of Iraq, and US imperial policies over the last decades, created a hatred for Americans that ultimately translated into support for all who fight them. Most Pakistanis do not approve of the Taliban's fundamental and primitivist social agenda. But, by virtue of fighting the Americans, popular sentiment is still with them. So, reducing anti-Americanism is the key. One hopes that Barack Obama will be able to undo some of the harm his country did to Pakistan. Let's see. But basically it is for Pakistanis - not Indians or anybody else - to fight it out. We Pakistanis have to realize that this is a war for our very existence as a civilized nation. Western support for Pakistan must be very judicious and not too overt. Similarly, isolating Pakistan, or inflicting harsh punitive measures, could easily backfire. The Taliban and allied extremists have a real chance of winning in Pakistan. The state is already crumbling in places and it could disintegrate quite rapidly, leaving the fanatics in charge. One cannot think of a bigger disaster for Pakistan. ------------- **************** 3/4 *An article written by Anand Patwardhan which was rejected by the Times of India:* *Terror: The Aftermath* *Anand PAtwardhan. *The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame game and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm our police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the USA did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us further into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives on reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge. The External Terror Those who invoke America need only to analyze if its actions after 9/11 increased or decreased global terror. It invaded oil-rich Iraq fully knowing that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, killing over 200,000 Iraqis citizens but allowing a cornered Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan. It recruited global support for Islamic militancy, which began to be seen as a just resistance against American mass murder. Which begs the question of who created Bin Laden in the first place, armed the madarsas of Pakistan and rejuvenated the concept of Islamic jehad? Israel played its own role in stoking the fires of jehad. The very creation of Israel in 1948 robbed Palestinians of their land, an act that Mahatma Gandhi to his credit deplored at the time as an unjust way to redress the wrongs done to Jews during the Holocaust. What followed has been a slow and continuing attack on the Palestinian nation. At first Palestinian resistance was led by secular forces represented by Yasser Arafat but as these were successfully undermined, Islamic forces took over the mantle. The first, largely non-violent Intifada was crushed, a second more violent one replaced it and when all else failed, human bombs appeared. Thirty years ago when I first went abroad there were two countries my Indian passport forbade me to visit. One was racist South Africa. The other was Israel. We were non-aligned and stood for disarmament and world peace. Today Israel and America are our biggest military allies. Is it surprising that we are on the jehadi hit list? Israel, America and other prosperous countries can to an extent protect themselves against the determined jehadi, but can India put an impenetrable shield over itself? Remember that when attackers are on a suicide mission, the strongest shields have crumbled. New York was laid low not with nuclear weapons but with a pair of box cutters. India is for many reasons a quintessentially soft target. Our huge population, vast landmass and coastline are impossible to protect. The rich may build new barricades. The Taj and the Oberoi can be made safer. So can our airports and planes. Can our railway stations and trains, bus stops, busses, markets and lanes do the same? The Terror Within The threat of terror in India does not come exclusively from the outside. Apart from being hugely populated by the poor India is also a country divided, not just between rich and poor, but by religion, caste and language. This internal divide is as potent a breeding ground for terror as jehadi camps abroad. Nor is jehad the copyright of one religion alone. It can be argued that international causes apart, India has jehadis that are fully home grown. Perhaps the earliest famous one was Nathuram Godse who acting at the behest of his mentor Vinayak Savarkar (still referred to as "Veer" or "brave" although he refused to own up to his role in the conspiracy), murdered Mahatma Gandhi for the crime of championing Muslims. Jump forward to 6th December, 1992, the day Hindu fanatics demolished the Babri Mosque setting into motion a chain of events that still wreaks havoc today. From the Bombay riots of 1992 to the bomb blasts of 1993, the Gujarat pogroms of 2002 and hundreds of smaller deadly events, the last 16 years have been the bloodiest since Partition. Action has been followed by reaction in an endless cycle of escalating retribution. At the core on the Hindu side of terror are organizations that openly admire Adolph Hitler, nursing the hate of historic wrongs inflicted by Muslims. Ironically these votaries of Hitler remain friends and admirers of Israel. On the Muslim side of terror are scores of disaffected youth, many of whom have seen their families tortured and killed in more recent pogroms. Christians too have fallen victim to recent Hindutva terror but as yet not formed the mechanisms for revenge. Dalits despite centuries of caste oppression, have not yet retaliated in violence although a small fraction is being drawn into an armed struggle waged by Naxalites. It is clear that no amount of spending on defense, no amount of patrolling the high seas, no amount of increasing the military and police and equipping them with the latest weaponry can end the cycle of violence or place India under a bubble of safety. Just as nuclear India did not lead to more safety, but only to a nuclear Pakistan, no amount of homeland security can save us. And inviting Israel's Mossad and America's CIA/FBI to the security table is like giving the anti-virus contract to those who spread the virus in the first place. It can only make us more of a target for the next determined jehadi attack. Policing, Justice and the Media As for draconian anti-terror laws, they too only breed terror as for the most part they are implemented by a State machinery that has imbibed majoritarian values. So in Modi's Gujarat after the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in 2002, despite scores of confessions to rape and murder captured on hidden camera, virtually no Hindu extremists were punished while thousands of Muslims rotted in jail under draconian laws. The same happened in Bombay despite the Shiv Sena being found guilty by the Justice Shrikrishna Commission. Under pressure a few cases were finally brought to trial but all escaped with the lightest of knuckle raps. In stark contrast many Muslims accused in the 1993 bomb blasts were given death sentences. The bulk of our media, policing and judicial systems swallows the canard that Muslims are by nature violent. Removing democratic safeguards guaranteed by the Constitution can only make this worse. Every act of wrongful imprisonment and torture that then follows is likely to turn innocents into material for future terrorists to draw upon. Already the double standards are visible. While the Students Islamic Movement of India is banned, Hindutva outfits like the RSS, the VHP, the Bajrang Dal, and the Shiv Sena remain legal entities. The leader of the MNS, Raj Thackeray recently openly spread such hatred that several north Indians were killed by lynch mobs. Amongst these were the Dube brothers, doctors from Kalyan who treated the poor for a grand fee of Rs.10 per patient. Raj Thackeray like his uncle Bal before him, remains free after issuing public threats that Bombay would burn if anyone had the guts to arrest him. Modi remains free despite the pogroms of Gujarat. Congress party murderers of Sikhs in 1984 remain free. Justice in India is clearly not there for all. Increasing the powers of the police cannot solve this problem. Only honest and unbiased implementation of laws that exist, can. It is a tragedy of the highest proportions that one such honest policeman, Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who had begun to unravel the thread of Hindutva terror was himself gunned down, perhaps by Muslim terror. It is reported that Col. Purohit and fellow Hindutva conspirators now in judicial custody, celebrated the news of Karkare's death. Until Karkare took charge, the Malegaon bomb blasts in which Muslims were killed and the Samjhauta Express blasts in which Pakistani visitors to India were killed were being blamed on Muslims. Karkare exposed a hitherto unknown Hindutva outfit as masterminding a series of killer blasts across the country. For his pains Karkare came under vicious attack not just from militant Hindutva but from the mainstream BJP. He was under tremendous pressure to prove his patriotism. Was it this that led this senior officer to don helmet and ill-fitting bullet proof vest and rush into battle with a pistol? Or was it just his natural instinct, the same courage that had led him against all odds, to expose Hindutva terror? Whatever it was, it only underlines the fact that jehadis of all kinds are actually allies of each other. So Bin Laden served George Bush and vice-versa. So Islamic and Hindutva jehadis have served each other for years. Do they care who dies? Of the 200 people killed in the last few days by Islamic jehadis, a high number were Muslims. Many were waiting to board trains to celebrate Eid in their hometowns in UP and Bihar, when their co-religionists gunned them down. Shockingly the media has not commented on this, nor focused on the tragedy at the railway station, choosing to concentrate on tragedies that befell the well-to-do. And it is the media that is leading the charge to turn us into a war-mongering police state where we may lead lives with an illusion of safety, but with the certainty of joylessness. I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places and at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is accompanied by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and humanity, when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of "patriots" and zealots. ************* 4/4 Mordecai Briemberg of Vancouver-based People's Radio talks with Hari Sharma http://www.rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/redeye/understanding-assault-mumbai From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 20:08:04 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir References: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B53474EF18247E4993BD72400924C54@tara> I wonder if the army could ensure such high voter turn out throughout the election cycle, what went wrong in Anant Naag? the poling has not been that strong there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shivam V" To: "SARAI" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir > The Indian media has been expressing surprise about the high voter > turnouts in the Kashmir elections. The expression of surprise sounds > genuine. I am not sure how genuine it is. Nationalism must be coming > in the way of truth. How can we not see what a Wall Street Journal > reporter can? > > EXCERPT: In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army > troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up > families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove > into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several > soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling > the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the > soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked > me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of > the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I > don't vote, I'll be sorry later." [Must Read] > And wasn't this predicted anyway? Didn't we tell you about Gentle > Persuasion? Oh, and they already know who the CM is going to be. > > Wasn't this predicted anyway? > [1] http://kafila.org/2008/10/05/gentle-persuasion-in-kashmir/ > [2] http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/op.htm#1 > > shivam > > o o o > > > > A New Tack in Kashmir > Peaceful Protest Gains in Separatist Fight > > By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV > > > DECEMBER 15, 2008 > SRINAGAR, India -- > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930169820005503.html > > Lashkar-e-Taiba, the presumed perpetrator of last month's Mumbai > attacks, sprang up from the bloody insurgency against Indian rule in > predominantly Muslim Kashmir. While the plight of Kashmir has > galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the decades-long > armed struggle is waning in the disputed region itself. > > India now largely faces a different, and potentially more challenging > foe here: peaceful campaigners for self-determination, who borrow from > Mahatma Gandhi's rule book of non-violent resistance. > > "India is not scared of the guns here in Kashmir -- it has a thousand > times more guns. What it is scared of is people coming out in the > streets, people seeing the power of nonviolent struggle," says the > Muslim Kashmiris' spiritual leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key > organizer of the civil disobedience campaign that began earlier this > year. The number of armed attacks in the valley, meanwhile, has > dropped to its lowest since the insurgency began in 1989, Indian > officials say. > > The former princely state known as Jammu and Kashmir was divided > between India and Pakistan since 1947, and has been claimed in its > entirety by both ever since. It has long been the main axis of discord > between the two neighbors, now both nuclear-armed. > > Since the early 1990s, Pakistan's intelligence services trained and > financed Kashmiri militant groups such as Lashkar, helping fuel a > conflict that has cost 60,000 lives. Mr. Farooq's father was gunned > down by suspected jihadi militants in 1990 for seeming too > accommodating to India. > > Mr. Farooq, who heads the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference, an umbrella > group of Kashmiri parties that want independence or merger with > Pakistan, has been kept under house arrest. Kashmir's Grand Mosque in > Srinagar, where Mr. Farooq usually delivers the weekly sermon, has > stood empty for several Fridays, its gates ringed by barbed wire and > its perimeter patrolled by troops. > > The rest of Srinagar, Kashmir's tense capital city, has been under > curfew for days. Fearful of mass demonstrations against Indian rule > and controversial elections, troops blocked the roads. Every few > hours, small clashes broke out with stone-hurling teenagers. > > Fading Attacks > > Earlier this year, unarmed protests organized by Mr. Farooq and other > separatist campaigners rocked Kashmir, causing the downfall of the > state government as demonstrators thronged the roads waving green > banners of Islam and chanting "Azadi" -- "Freedom." > > Militant attacks, once a daily occurrence that drove out 300,000 > Kashmiri Hindus, have become much less frequent. Indian officials say > as few as 600 armed insurgents remain in Jammu and Kashmir. > > Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of a Kashmiri civil-disobedience > campaign that began earlier this year, is now kept under house arrest > by Indian troops. Here he leads a 2007 protest in front of his > ancestral home. > > The changing nature of the separatist struggle makes it increasingly > difficult for India to portray the conflict over Kashmir as a > clear-cut fight between the world's largest democracy and murderous > terrorists. Unlike Lashkar's jihadis, unarmed protesters in Kashmir > can muster sympathy from sections of Western, and Indian, public > opinion. > > "It's justified when you kill a militant, but it's not justified when > you kill a demonstrator," says Kashmir's leading pro-Indian politician > Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, India's home minister at the peak of the > Kashmiri insurgency and Kashmir's chief minister in 2002-2005. > > Many among the new generation of Kashmiri protesters say they are > happy that the insurgents no longer prowl the streets, demanding > shelter and food from civilians, enforcing rigid Islamic observance -- > and attracting army reprisals. "It's good that the militants are gone. > What we need is to fight for our freedom in a peaceful environment," > says 22-year-old farmer Tanha Gul from the town of Pulwama south of > Srinagar, who says he has participated in every demonstration in his > area. > > Indian officials acknowledge the change in popular attitudes. "People > want peace. Nobody wants to be disturbed in the evening - not by the > militants, and not by the forces," says Kashmir's chief of police, B. > Srinivas. > > Still, responding to recent demonstrations, Indian troops often > resorted to lethal force, killing more than 50 Kashmiri civilians. > Scores of protesters and separatist politicians have been thrown > behind bars or placed under house arrest. Indian officials say these > detentions are necessary to preserve public peace, and that the troops > have to use force to maintain law and order. > > Some half a million Indian soldiers and policemen remain deployed in > the Indian-administered part of Jammu and Kashmir, home to 10 million > people. (About 5 million people live in Pakistani-held Kashmir.) > Indian laws grant troops in Kashmir almost total immunity from > prosecution, including in cases of civilian deaths. Srinagar, once > India's prime tourist destination, is dotted by checkpoints, its > indoor stadium, cinemas and hotels surrounded by sandbags and > converted into military camps. Broadcast media are censored. > > New restrictions have been added in recent months, such as an order to > disable mobile-phone text messaging -- a key method of mobilizing > protesters -- on cellphone networks that operate in Kashmir. > > The event that sparked these protests, bringing Kashmiri civilians > into the streets, was a decision last May by the state government to > transfer land near the Amarnath to a Hindu religious organization. > This land near the shrine -- a cave in which an ice stalagmite forms > every winter -- has been used for years to shelter pilgrims. But large > tracts of the region already are requisitioned for army and police > use, and the formal transfer stoked fears of a widespread land grab. > > Snowballing Protests > > In June, snowballing Kashmiri protests over the issue prompted Mr. > Mufti Muhammad's People's Democratic Party to withdraw from the state > government. The following month the collapsing state government > revoked the land transfer decision. As federal rule was imposed, fresh > riots broke out in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu part of the state. > > While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across > South Asia, the armed struggle is waning in the disputed region. > At the peak of Kashmir's peach and pear season, Hindu protesters in > Jammu blocked the only highway linking the valley with the rest of > India. With the fruit harvest -- the valley's key export -- rotting > away, Kashmir's fruit growers' union called for opening an alternative > trade route -- through Pakistani-held Kashmir. Defying curfew orders, > on Aug. 10 thousands of fruit growers and separatist activists marched > towards the cease-fire line. The protest column was met with gunfire > from Indian forces. Fifteen marchers were shot dead, including a > prominent separatist. > > As Kashmir descended into chaos after these killings, India responded > with increasingly severe curfews and lockdowns that continue. Often > they come without prior warning or formal announcement, as in Srinagar > over the past weekend. > > "Common people like me are made to suffer continually," says Ghulam > Rasool Sailani, a milk merchant who has been sitting at home in > Srinagar, unable to trade, over the past three days. "It's hard. Our > losses are huge because our incomes are so low." > > One of Mr. Sailani's regular clients was Mohammad Yacoub Jaan, a > 35-year-old father of three. On Aug. 24, as he carried home a metallic > milk container, Mr. Jaan encountered three policemen a few yards from > his doorstep. As they beat Mr. Jaan with bamboo sticks for violating > the curfew, the milk spilled from the container and soiled the > officers' uniforms, according to Mr. Jaan and neighbors who say they > witnessed the incident. They say an enraged officer opened fire with > his assault rifle, shooting Mr. Jaan through the throat and the side. > > Hearing the shooting, Mr. Jaan's relatives rushed outdoors. As Mr. > Jaan's 65-year-old father Ghulam Qadir tried to plead with policemen > to stop beating his son, they shot at him too, the witnesses said. He > was instantly killed. "After that, everyone just scattered away, their > caps falling into the drains," recalls Mr. Jaan's wife, Asmat. Mr. > Jaan, who remains paralyzed, says no representative of the authorities > has contacted him since the shootings. > > Mr. Srinivas, the Kashmir chief of police, says that curfews and other > restrictions are needed to prevent greater violence. "I don't want the > peace-loving people of Srinagar to be disturbed by rogue elements," he > says in an interview. As for allegations of abuse, he adds, > investigations are under way. > > Anger Over Disparity > > Some pro-Indian Kashmiri politicians have been angered by the > disparity they say security forces have shown when dealing with Hindu > protests in Jammu and the Muslim demonstrations in Kashmir. "Lives are > cheap in Kashmir," says Omar Abdullah, president of the National > Conference party and India's former federal minister of state for > external affairs. "I'm still struggling to understand how the same > chain of command had two completely different approaches to crowd > control." > > Kashmir's information secretary, K.B. Jandial, says there was no > disparity, and that every individual incident has to be considered > separately. > > Mr. Abdullah's party, the biggest in the previous legislature, is > currently battling for the right to form the next state government in > elections that began last month and end on Dec. 24. Even though > separatist parties have called for a boycott, the turnout so far is > among the highest on record. Indian officials view such high > participation as a rebuke to Pakistan and Pakistani-backed > separatists. > > But many voters who lined up at the polls Saturday in south Kashmir, > for example, also turned out at anti-Indian protest marches weeks > earlier. In the town of Tral, 20-year-old student Manzur Ahmad said > that he was voting for an incumbent candidate because, in recent > years, the lawmaker had managed to curb the harassment of local youths > by government forces. "We vote because this makes our lives easier - > but this doesn't mean we don't want freedom," he said. > > In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops > went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and > taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village > Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by > the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old > retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped > into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not > voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," > Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be > sorry later." > > In another south Kashmiri village, Koeil, a similar police effort to > round up voters degenerated into clashes with stone-throwing youths. > As a reporter arrived on the scene, dozens of police officers charged > along the main street, firing tear-gas volleys. Many policemen also > picked up rocks and hurled them into villagers' homes, breaking > windows. > > "My boys are irritated. They just want to let them know we're here, to > scare them," the district senior superintendent of police who oversaw > the operation, Ali Mohammad Bhatt, said when asked about the > window-breaking. "Ultimately, if you restrain your force and don't > kill anybody, your job is done," Mr. Bhatt added. > > Half an hour later, Indian forces in the village opened fire at the > protesters, killing a 20-year-old student and seriously injuring three > others, including a 14-year-old boy whose arm and intestines were > pierced by high-velocity Kalashnikov bullets. "Once you take the law > into your hands, the forces or police have to take action," the Jammu > and Kashmir information secretary, Mr. Jandial, said when asked about > the shootings. > > As for allegations of voter coercion, he said he wasn't aware of any: > "If ever there is a coercion, it's on the part of people pressing for > a boycott." > > Continuing bloodshed may end up reversing Kashmir's recent shift > towards unarmed campaigning. Sitting on the porch of a shuttered store > near Srinagar's Grand Mosque, two former insurgents bristled with > anger this weekend. Then, one of them, Iqbal Sheikh, spat on the > ground and said: "When the small kids who throw stones are met with > bullets, many people want to take up guns again." > > Write to Yaroslav Trofimov at yaroslav.trofimov at wsj.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 20:53:00 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:53:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <4B53474EF18247E4993BD72400924C54@tara> References: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> <4B53474EF18247E4993BD72400924C54@tara> Message-ID: <6353c690812170723j2af294f5ve5d6c36c54b975af@mail.gmail.com> Taraprakshji, Shivam must have been on a holiday. So, He probably missed it. Forgive the Journalist. On 12/17/08, taraprakash wrote: > > I wonder if the army could ensure such high voter turn out throughout the > election cycle, what went wrong in Anant Naag? the poling has not been that > strong there. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shivam V" > > To: "SARAI" ; > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:53 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir > > > > > The Indian media has been expressing surprise about the high voter > > turnouts in the Kashmir elections. The expression of surprise sounds > > genuine. I am not sure how genuine it is. Nationalism must be coming > > in the way of truth. How can we not see what a Wall Street Journal > > reporter can? > > > > EXCERPT: In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army > > troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up > > families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove > > into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several > > soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling > > the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the > > soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked > > me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of > > the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I > > don't vote, I'll be sorry later." [Must Read] > > And wasn't this predicted anyway? Didn't we tell you about Gentle > > Persuasion? Oh, and they already know who the CM is going to be. > > > > Wasn't this predicted anyway? > > [1] http://kafila.org/2008/10/05/gentle-persuasion-in-kashmir/ > > [2] http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/op.htm#1 > > > > shivam > > > > o o o > > > > > > > > A New Tack in Kashmir > > Peaceful Protest Gains in Separatist Fight > > > > By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV > > > > > > DECEMBER 15, 2008 > > SRINAGAR, India -- > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930169820005503.html > > > > Lashkar-e-Taiba, the presumed perpetrator of last month's Mumbai > > attacks, sprang up from the bloody insurgency against Indian rule in > > predominantly Muslim Kashmir. While the plight of Kashmir has > > galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the decades-long > > armed struggle is waning in the disputed region itself. > > > > India now largely faces a different, and potentially more challenging > > foe here: peaceful campaigners for self-determination, who borrow from > > Mahatma Gandhi's rule book of non-violent resistance. > > > > "India is not scared of the guns here in Kashmir -- it has a thousand > > times more guns. What it is scared of is people coming out in the > > streets, people seeing the power of nonviolent struggle," says the > > Muslim Kashmiris' spiritual leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key > > organizer of the civil disobedience campaign that began earlier this > > year. The number of armed attacks in the valley, meanwhile, has > > dropped to its lowest since the insurgency began in 1989, Indian > > officials say. > > > > The former princely state known as Jammu and Kashmir was divided > > between India and Pakistan since 1947, and has been claimed in its > > entirety by both ever since. It has long been the main axis of discord > > between the two neighbors, now both nuclear-armed. > > > > Since the early 1990s, Pakistan's intelligence services trained and > > financed Kashmiri militant groups such as Lashkar, helping fuel a > > conflict that has cost 60,000 lives. Mr. Farooq's father was gunned > > down by suspected jihadi militants in 1990 for seeming too > > accommodating to India. > > > > Mr. Farooq, who heads the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference, an umbrella > > group of Kashmiri parties that want independence or merger with > > Pakistan, has been kept under house arrest. Kashmir's Grand Mosque in > > Srinagar, where Mr. Farooq usually delivers the weekly sermon, has > > stood empty for several Fridays, its gates ringed by barbed wire and > > its perimeter patrolled by troops. > > > > The rest of Srinagar, Kashmir's tense capital city, has been under > > curfew for days. Fearful of mass demonstrations against Indian rule > > and controversial elections, troops blocked the roads. Every few > > hours, small clashes broke out with stone-hurling teenagers. > > > > Fading Attacks > > > > Earlier this year, unarmed protests organized by Mr. Farooq and other > > separatist campaigners rocked Kashmir, causing the downfall of the > > state government as demonstrators thronged the roads waving green > > banners of Islam and chanting "Azadi" -- "Freedom." > > > > Militant attacks, once a daily occurrence that drove out 300,000 > > Kashmiri Hindus, have become much less frequent. Indian officials say > > as few as 600 armed insurgents remain in Jammu and Kashmir. > > > > Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of a Kashmiri civil-disobedience > > campaign that began earlier this year, is now kept under house arrest > > by Indian troops. Here he leads a 2007 protest in front of his > > ancestral home. > > > > The changing nature of the separatist struggle makes it increasingly > > difficult for India to portray the conflict over Kashmir as a > > clear-cut fight between the world's largest democracy and murderous > > terrorists. Unlike Lashkar's jihadis, unarmed protesters in Kashmir > > can muster sympathy from sections of Western, and Indian, public > > opinion. > > > > "It's justified when you kill a militant, but it's not justified when > > you kill a demonstrator," says Kashmir's leading pro-Indian politician > > Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, India's home minister at the peak of the > > Kashmiri insurgency and Kashmir's chief minister in 2002-2005. > > > > Many among the new generation of Kashmiri protesters say they are > > happy that the insurgents no longer prowl the streets, demanding > > shelter and food from civilians, enforcing rigid Islamic observance -- > > and attracting army reprisals. "It's good that the militants are gone. > > What we need is to fight for our freedom in a peaceful environment," > > says 22-year-old farmer Tanha Gul from the town of Pulwama south of > > Srinagar, who says he has participated in every demonstration in his > > area. > > > > Indian officials acknowledge the change in popular attitudes. "People > > want peace. Nobody wants to be disturbed in the evening - not by the > > militants, and not by the forces," says Kashmir's chief of police, B. > > Srinivas. > > > > Still, responding to recent demonstrations, Indian troops often > > resorted to lethal force, killing more than 50 Kashmiri civilians. > > Scores of protesters and separatist politicians have been thrown > > behind bars or placed under house arrest. Indian officials say these > > detentions are necessary to preserve public peace, and that the troops > > have to use force to maintain law and order. > > > > Some half a million Indian soldiers and policemen remain deployed in > > the Indian-administered part of Jammu and Kashmir, home to 10 million > > people. (About 5 million people live in Pakistani-held Kashmir.) > > Indian laws grant troops in Kashmir almost total immunity from > > prosecution, including in cases of civilian deaths. Srinagar, once > > India's prime tourist destination, is dotted by checkpoints, its > > indoor stadium, cinemas and hotels surrounded by sandbags and > > converted into military camps. Broadcast media are censored. > > > > New restrictions have been added in recent months, such as an order to > > disable mobile-phone text messaging -- a key method of mobilizing > > protesters -- on cellphone networks that operate in Kashmir. > > > > The event that sparked these protests, bringing Kashmiri civilians > > into the streets, was a decision last May by the state government to > > transfer land near the Amarnath to a Hindu religious organization. > > This land near the shrine -- a cave in which an ice stalagmite forms > > every winter -- has been used for years to shelter pilgrims. But large > > tracts of the region already are requisitioned for army and police > > use, and the formal transfer stoked fears of a widespread land grab. > > > > Snowballing Protests > > > > In June, snowballing Kashmiri protests over the issue prompted Mr. > > Mufti Muhammad's People's Democratic Party to withdraw from the state > > government. The following month the collapsing state government > > revoked the land transfer decision. As federal rule was imposed, fresh > > riots broke out in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu part of the state. > > > > While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across > > South Asia, the armed struggle is waning in the disputed region. > > At the peak of Kashmir's peach and pear season, Hindu protesters in > > Jammu blocked the only highway linking the valley with the rest of > > India. With the fruit harvest -- the valley's key export -- rotting > > away, Kashmir's fruit growers' union called for opening an alternative > > trade route -- through Pakistani-held Kashmir. Defying curfew orders, > > on Aug. 10 thousands of fruit growers and separatist activists marched > > towards the cease-fire line. The protest column was met with gunfire > > from Indian forces. Fifteen marchers were shot dead, including a > > prominent separatist. > > > > As Kashmir descended into chaos after these killings, India responded > > with increasingly severe curfews and lockdowns that continue. Often > > they come without prior warning or formal announcement, as in Srinagar > > over the past weekend. > > > > "Common people like me are made to suffer continually," says Ghulam > > Rasool Sailani, a milk merchant who has been sitting at home in > > Srinagar, unable to trade, over the past three days. "It's hard. Our > > losses are huge because our incomes are so low." > > > > One of Mr. Sailani's regular clients was Mohammad Yacoub Jaan, a > > 35-year-old father of three. On Aug. 24, as he carried home a metallic > > milk container, Mr. Jaan encountered three policemen a few yards from > > his doorstep. As they beat Mr. Jaan with bamboo sticks for violating > > the curfew, the milk spilled from the container and soiled the > > officers' uniforms, according to Mr. Jaan and neighbors who say they > > witnessed the incident. They say an enraged officer opened fire with > > his assault rifle, shooting Mr. Jaan through the throat and the side. > > > > Hearing the shooting, Mr. Jaan's relatives rushed outdoors. As Mr. > > Jaan's 65-year-old father Ghulam Qadir tried to plead with policemen > > to stop beating his son, they shot at him too, the witnesses said. He > > was instantly killed. "After that, everyone just scattered away, their > > caps falling into the drains," recalls Mr. Jaan's wife, Asmat. Mr. > > Jaan, who remains paralyzed, says no representative of the authorities > > has contacted him since the shootings. > > > > Mr. Srinivas, the Kashmir chief of police, says that curfews and other > > restrictions are needed to prevent greater violence. "I don't want the > > peace-loving people of Srinagar to be disturbed by rogue elements," he > > says in an interview. As for allegations of abuse, he adds, > > investigations are under way. > > > > Anger Over Disparity > > > > Some pro-Indian Kashmiri politicians have been angered by the > > disparity they say security forces have shown when dealing with Hindu > > protests in Jammu and the Muslim demonstrations in Kashmir. "Lives are > > cheap in Kashmir," says Omar Abdullah, president of the National > > Conference party and India's former federal minister of state for > > external affairs. "I'm still struggling to understand how the same > > chain of command had two completely different approaches to crowd > > control." > > > > Kashmir's information secretary, K.B. Jandial, says there was no > > disparity, and that every individual incident has to be considered > > separately. > > > > Mr. Abdullah's party, the biggest in the previous legislature, is > > currently battling for the right to form the next state government in > > elections that began last month and end on Dec. 24. Even though > > separatist parties have called for a boycott, the turnout so far is > > among the highest on record. Indian officials view such high > > participation as a rebuke to Pakistan and Pakistani-backed > > separatists. > > > > But many voters who lined up at the polls Saturday in south Kashmir, > > for example, also turned out at anti-Indian protest marches weeks > > earlier. In the town of Tral, 20-year-old student Manzur Ahmad said > > that he was voting for an incumbent candidate because, in recent > > years, the lawmaker had managed to curb the harassment of local youths > > by government forces. "We vote because this makes our lives easier - > > but this doesn't mean we don't want freedom," he said. > > > > In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops > > went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and > > taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village > > Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by > > the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old > > retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped > > into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not > > voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," > > Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be > > sorry later." > > > > In another south Kashmiri village, Koeil, a similar police effort to > > round up voters degenerated into clashes with stone-throwing youths. > > As a reporter arrived on the scene, dozens of police officers charged > > along the main street, firing tear-gas volleys. Many policemen also > > picked up rocks and hurled them into villagers' homes, breaking > > windows. > > > > "My boys are irritated. They just want to let them know we're here, to > > scare them," the district senior superintendent of police who oversaw > > the operation, Ali Mohammad Bhatt, said when asked about the > > window-breaking. "Ultimately, if you restrain your force and don't > > kill anybody, your job is done," Mr. Bhatt added. > > > > Half an hour later, Indian forces in the village opened fire at the > > protesters, killing a 20-year-old student and seriously injuring three > > others, including a 14-year-old boy whose arm and intestines were > > pierced by high-velocity Kalashnikov bullets. "Once you take the law > > into your hands, the forces or police have to take action," the Jammu > > and Kashmir information secretary, Mr. Jandial, said when asked about > > the shootings. > > > > As for allegations of voter coercion, he said he wasn't aware of any: > > "If ever there is a coercion, it's on the part of people pressing for > > a boycott." > > > > Continuing bloodshed may end up reversing Kashmir's recent shift > > towards unarmed campaigning. Sitting on the porch of a shuttered store > > near Srinagar's Grand Mosque, two former insurgents bristled with > > anger this weekend. Then, one of them, Iqbal Sheikh, spat on the > > ground and said: "When the small kids who throw stones are met with > > bullets, many people want to take up guns again." > > > > Write to Yaroslav Trofimov at yaroslav.trofimov at wsj.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 21:21:01 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:51:01 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma References: <564b2fca0812170157v62bcb262ndc556b229da9c51c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for forwarding the piece by Mr. Hoodbhoy. The other pieces have been circulated on the list several times already. I think Hoodbhoy unintentionally ignores high number of Hindus who were killed in the attack when he says following about Mumbai attacks: "The goal was to kill foreigners, particularly Jews and Americans, although Muslims were also collateral casualties." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nagraj Adve" To: "Sarai" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:57 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy,A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: SANSAD > Date: 17 Dec 2008 08:22 > Subject: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, > Hari Sharma > To: List Suppressed > > Dear friends: > > > The Mumbai dust has not settled yet. National jingoism and war cries are > keeping it afloat and churning. Sonia Gandhi has promised tougher > anti-terrorism laws, as if that would eliminate the underlying causes of > terrorism. The RSS Chief is calling for nuking Pakistan; and maybe, a > Third > World War, to "cleanse the world of evil". > > > But other voices are also coming in large measures, from around the world > and from both sides of the India-Pakistan divide. > > > We forward to you, first, a piece by Arundhati Roy, "The Monster in the > Mirror". There are phrases and labels in it I disagree with, but it is, > once > again, a charateristic Arundhati Roy piece. Profoundly perceptive, > passionate, concerned and alarmed. Its poetry gives body to its prose. > Thank > you, Arundhati. > > > The second piece is from the other side of the border. the noted Nuclear > Physicist, the peace activist, the never-tiring good voice of the people > of > Pakistan, Parvez Hoodbhoy. > > > Then, there is a piece by the celebrated film-maker Anand Patwardhan. > Times > of India refused to publish this excellent article; that's all the more > reason for us to disseminate it. > > > And finally, there is a link for a podcast of a radio interview I had > locally in Vancouver, on December 6, the anniversary of the Babri Masjid > demolition. > > > hari sharma > for SANSAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/4 > *The monster in the mirror* > > *The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed > 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including > an > attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with > justice, > or face civil war*. > > > > > > > > - [image: static.guim.co.uk/7F9E2D96.jpg] > > > > - > Arundhati > Roy > > - guardian.co.uk , Saturday 13 December 2008 > 00.01 GMT > - Article > history > > > [image: > static.guim.co.uk/1216CB21.jpg] > > > > Azam Amir Kasab, the face of the Mumbai attacks. Photograph: Reuters > > > > > > > We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai > raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us > that > we were watching "India's 9/11". Like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an > old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, > even > though we know it's all been said and done before. > > > As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned > Pakistan > that if it didn't act fast to arrest the "Bad Guys" he had personal > information that India would launch air strikes on "terrorist camps" in > Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's > 9/11. > > > But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan > and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick > through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that > we > can arrive at our own conclusions. > > > It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir > supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, > while > the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like > war-torn > Kupwara - one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. > > > The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist > attacks > on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, > Guwahati, > Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of > ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right > about > the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all > Indian > nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong > in > this country. > > > If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary > people > too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a > public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. > They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, > was > transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering > barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies > and > crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish > centre. > > > We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's > absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary > Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving > obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, > the > gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and > the > staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the > inner > pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said > "Hungry,* kya*?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm > sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India > ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't* that* war. That > one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks > of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; > in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, > Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic > cities. > > > That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal > with > the one that is. > > > There is a fierce, unforgiving fault-line that runs through the > contemporary > discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who > see > terrorism, especially "Islamist" terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge > that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with > the > world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. > Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or > even > try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself. > > > Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, > it > exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to > see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in > harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. > > > The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the > Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, > certainly bolsters the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide > bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy and believes that jihad should be > waged until Islam,* his* Islam, rules the world. Among the things he said > are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut > them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." > > > And: "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a > tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the > Hindus, > just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." > > > But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of > Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was > one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on > camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire > Š > we hacked, burned, set on fire Š we believe in setting them on fire > because > these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it Š I have > just > one last wish Š let me be sentenced to death Š I don't care if I'm hanged > ... just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field > day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs [seven or eight hundred > thousand] > of these people stay ... I will finish them off Š let a few more of them > die > ... at least 25,000 to 50,000 should die." > > > And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya > Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or, Our Nationhood Defined by MS Golwalkar, > who > became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when > Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the > Hindu > Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The > Race > Spirit has been awakening." > Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the > world by her purging the country of the Semitic races - the Jews. Race > pride > at its highest has been manifested here ... a good lesson for us in > Hindustan to learn and profit by." > > > (Of course Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu > right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in > Orissa, Christians were the target of two and a half months of violence > which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from > their homes, half of who now live in refugee camps.) > > > All these years Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in > Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud Daawa, which many believe is a front > organization for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. He continues to recruit young boys > for > his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11 the > UN > imposed sanctions on the Jammat-ud-Daawa. The Pakistani government > succumbed > to international pressure and put Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu > Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and lives the life of a respectable man > in > Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide he left the VHP to join the > Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief > minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was > re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate > houses, Reliance and Tata. > > > Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said: > "Modi > is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the > rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. The RSS > has > 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and 7 million volunteers > preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, > but > also former prime minister AB Vajpayee, current leader of the opposition > LK > Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and > intelligence officers. > > > If that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we > should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations > within > India preaching their own narrow bigotry. > > > So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick > Side > B. We need context. Always. > > > In this nuclear subcontinent that context is partition. The Radcliffe > Line, > which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, > villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was > drawn > virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition > triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest > migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million > people, Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new* kind* of > India left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. > > > Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, > hate, horror but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered > muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a > close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left > Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a > nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of > the > Pure, became an Islamic Republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, > violent > military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand > declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent > undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since > the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea > of India even before it was born. > > > By 1990 they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992 Hindu mobs > exhorted > by LK Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998 the BJP > was > in power at the centre. The US war on terror put the wind in their sails. > It > allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and > then > present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This > happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international > finance and it was in the interests of international corporations and the > media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. > That gave Hindu nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. > > > This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the > subcontinent and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that > Hafiz > Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Taiba is from Shimla (India) and LK Advani of the > Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). > > > In much the same way as it did after the 2001 parliament attack, the 2002 > burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta > Express, the government of India announced that it has "incontrovertible" > evidence that the Lashkar-e-Taiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the > Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime > accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies the Lashkar > operates in India through an organisation called the Indian Mujahideen. > Two > Indian nationals, Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working > for > the Jammu and Kashmir police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata in > West Bengal, have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. > > > So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy. > Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated > global > network of foot soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover > intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives working not just on both > sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries > simultaneously. > In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike > and isolate it within the borders of a single nation state is very much > like > trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost > impossible. > > > In circumstances like these, air strikes to "take out" terrorist camps may > take out the camps, but certainly will not "take out" the terrorists. > Neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try > not > to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of > neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, > were trained by the Indian army.) > > > Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally first > in > its war in* support* of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war* > against*them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these > contradictions, is > careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jihad > against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI > to > nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organizations. Having > wired up these Frankensteins and released them into the world, the US > expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. > > > Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in heart of the Homeland > on > September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently remade. Now > the > debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. > Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding > over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training > camps, > the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or > should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their > ire > rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if > not more than it does on India. > > > If at this point India decides to go to war perhaps the descent of the > whole > region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed > Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. > If > Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of "non-state > actors" with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as > neighbours. > It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to > replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country > by*inviting > * the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our > extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has > agents. > > > On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way > for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home > front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or > most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international > ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at "ground zero" kept up > an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights > we > watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns > and > gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National > Security > Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered > nation. > > > While they did this they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in > railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, > caste, religion or nationality. (Part of the helplessness of the security > forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, > in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole > buildings > are blown up. Human shields are used. The U.S and Israeli armies don't > hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on > wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was > different. > And it was on TV. > > > The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill - and be killed - > mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something > different > from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people > have > grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The > gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television > magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, > not > minutes, what that's worth. > > > Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the > chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the standoff the > terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their > purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before > they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we > say > "nothing can justify terrorism", what most of us mean is that nothing can > justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, > because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care > nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea > what > to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, > they've > journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. > > > One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the > attackers, who called himself Imran Babar. I cannot vouch for the veracity > of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things > contained in the "terror emails" that were sent out before several other > bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the > demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims > in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," > the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you > surrender?" > > > "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better > to > live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to > change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. > > > If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn't it > matter > to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their > action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim > community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism > is > a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the > Big Picture, individuals don't figure in their calculations except as > collateral damage. It has always been a part of and often even the* aim* > of > terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden > faultlines. The blood of "martyrs" irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists > need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist > terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof > of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism > is > not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be > a > catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, > a > tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and > symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its > acts > of bestiality is Live TV. Even as the attack was being condemned by TV > anchors, the effectiveness of the terror strikes were being magnified a > thousandfold by TV broadcasts. > > > Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in > India > at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: > Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead we had > retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war > against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes > unless > their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain > unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and > each > state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death > of > former prime minster VP Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and > villain of Upper caste Hindus pass without a mention. > > > We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood > film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous "Why > they > hate us" speech. His analysis of why religious bigots, both Hindu and > Muslim > hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and > an > indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the > terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more > than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after > 9/11? > Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. > > > Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just > begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, > goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and > leftwing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians,* all* > politicians, > glorifying the police and the army and virtually asking for a police > state. > It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of > democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The > era > of "pickings" is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and > democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. > > > Dangerous, stupid television flashcards like the Police are Good > Politicians > are Bad/Chief Executives are Good Chief Ministers are Bad/Army is Good > Government is Bad/ India is Good Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about > by > TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost > uncontrollable hysteria. > > > Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when > people in India were beginning to see that in the business of terrorism, > victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding > that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last > 20 > years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still > learning. > (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look > as > though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) > > > It was after the 2001 parliament attack that the first serious questions > began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed > how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how > evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been > criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the > courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including SAR Geelani, the > man > whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, > Showkat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was > then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence. The supreme court > upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In > its > judgment the court acknowledged there was no proof that Mohammed Afzal > belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, > "The > collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital > punishment is awarded to the offender." Even today we don't really know > who > the terrorists that attacked the Indian parliament were and who they > worked > for. > > > More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial > "encounter" at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell > of > the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat > under > seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible > for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An assistant > commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the > parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of > India's many "encounter specialists" known and rewarded for having > summarily > executed several "terrorists". There was an outcry against the Special > Cell > from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local > community > to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, > academics > and activists all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. > In > response, the BJP and LK Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a > "Braveheart" > and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had > dared > to question the integrity of the police, saying it was "suicidal" and > calling them "anti-national". Of course there has been no inquiry. > > > Only days after the Batla House event, another story about "terrorists" > surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to a sessions court, the CBI > said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the > Batla > House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent > men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2kg of RDX and > two pistols on them and then arrested them as "terrorists" who belonged to > Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar who have spent > years > in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been > similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. > > > This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism > Squad > (ATS) that was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts arrested a > Hindu preacher Sadhvi Pragya, a self-styled God man Swami Dayanand Pande > and > Lt Col Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian Army. All the arrested > belong to Hindu Nationalist organizations including a Hindu Supremacist > group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned > the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he > was > part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be > terrorists". LK Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and > made rabble rousing speeches to huge gatherings in which he denounced the > ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. > > > On the November 25 newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the > high profile VHP Chief Pravin Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon > blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare > was > killed in the Mumbai Attacks. The chances are that the new chief whoever > he > is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to > be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. > > > While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision > over > whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, > Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the > plate. He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who > have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My > name > and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up > several > times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab > Goswami turned to camera: "Arundhati > Royand Prashant > Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you > are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged > and > as frenzied as the one that prevails today, amounts to incitement as well > as > threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a > journalist > his or her job. > > > So according to a man aspiring to be the next prime minister of India, and > another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have > no > right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a > shadowy > history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake > "encounters". This in a country that boasts of the highest number of > custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International > Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture > chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being > "encountered" by our Encounter Specialists. A country where the line > between > the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. > > > How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of > all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? > There > are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as > the > United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since > 9/11. > However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. > If > the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing > its > true colors, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The > US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United > States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed > greatly to the unraveling of the American economy and who knows, perhaps > eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed > Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of > this > one too?) Hundreds of thousands people including thousands of American > soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of > terrorist strikes on U.S allies/agents (including India) and U.S interests > in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George > Bush, > the man who led the US response to 9/11 is a despised figure not just > internationally, but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that > the > United States is winning the war on terror? > > > Homeland Security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few > countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But > even > if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours* cannot* be > secured > or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of > homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning > out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir > and > a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than 150 million > Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, > whose > young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose > hope > and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole > world. If ten men can hold off the NSG commandos, and the police for three > days, and if it takes half a million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir > valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? > > > Nor for that matter will any other quick fix. Anti-terrorism laws are not > meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. > That's > why they have a conviction rate of less than 2%. They're just a means of > putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and > eventually > letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly > likely > to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to > death. It's what they* want*. > > > What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades > of > quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. > > > The only way to contain (it would be naïve to say end) terrorism is to > look > at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One > sign > says Justice, the other Civil War. There's no third sign and there's no > going back. Choose. > ****************** > 2/4 > > > (This interview of Pervez Hoodbhoy was conducted by Cristina Otten for > FOCUS. It may be found on-line in German at: > http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/tid-12856/pakistan-die-menschen-s > ind-blind-vor-hass_aid_355157.html > A more readable pdf version is also attached.) > > > THE MUMBAI MASSACRE AND PAKISTAN'S NEW NIGHTMARES > > CO: Tensions between Pakistan and India have been growing after the Mumbai > attacks. Are we close to a military escalation? > > PH: In spite of vociferous demands by the Indian public, Prime Minister > Manmohan Singh's government has withstood the pressure to conduct > cross-border strikes into Pakistan. Correspondingly, in spite of the > bitter criticism by Islamic parties, Pakistan's government has moved > against the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT), the jihadist organization that is > almost certainly behind the attacks. ÝFor now, the tension has eased > somewhat but another attack could push India over the fence. > > CO: What makes the LeT so different from other militant groups? Is > Pakistan really moving against it? > > PH: LeT, one of the largest militant groups in Pakistan, was established > over 15 years ago. It had the full support of the Pakistani military and > Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) for over a decade because it focussed > upon fighting Indian rule in Muslim Kashmir. Today it is one of the very > few extremist groups left that does not attack the Pakistani army and > state; in contrast almost all others have turned into fierce enemies. We > now hear that a few members of LeT, who were named by India, have been > arrested. Time will tell whether this was a serious move, or if this was a > ruse to ease the enormous pressure against Pakistan. If serious, then the > Army and ISI will have earned the bitter enmity of yet another former > ally. They are afraid of a repeat of their experience with > Jaish-e-Muhammad, a formerly supported Islamic militant group that now is > responsible for extreme brutalities against of Pakistani soldiers captured > in FATA, including torture and decapitations. It's a nightmarish situation > for the Pakistan Army. Ý > > CO: How have Pakistanis reacted to the Mumbai massacre? > > PH: The initial reaction was of sympathy. I did not see any celebrations, > contrary to those that I saw after 911. But then, as the Indian TV > > channels started accusing Pakistan and demanding that it be bombed in > retaliation, the reaction turned to that of anger and flat denial - > Pakistanis did not want to accept that this attack was done by Pakistanis > or had been launched from Pakistani soil. Subsequently one saw amazing > mental gymnastics. Popular TV anchors, and their guests, invoked far-out > conspiracy theories. Years ago, some of the same anchors had confidently > claimed that Kathmandu-Delhi Indian Airlines Flight 814 (IC814) had been > hijacked by RAW to malign Pakistan. They had also ridiculed the notion > that Pakistan was involved in the Kargil invasion. Now, pointing to the > RSS hand in the Samjhota Express bombing, they are alternately ascribing > the Mumbai attacks to radical Hindus, or to Jews and Americans. It is sad > to see intelligent persons losing their marbles. Ý > > CO: Pakistan has always stressed that it will deliver the first nuclear > strike if it feels threatened by India? Do you see any signs on the > > Pakistani sign to carry out its threat? > > PH: About a week before the Mumbai massacre, President Asif Ali Zardari > had given the assurance that Pakistan would not use nuclear weapons first. > India had announced a no first use policy almost ten years ago. But > Zardari is not taken seriously by the Pakistani generals who actually > control the Bomb, and the Indian NFU declaration is frankly of no > consequence. Cross-border raids by India could well ignite a conventional > war. If that happens, all bets are off and it could escalate without > warning into a nuclear conflict. For many years US defence strategists, > belonging to various think tanks and war colleges, have been simulating > conflicts between Pakistan and India. They say that a conventional war > will almost certainly lead to a nuclear conclusion. Fear of nuclear > weapons has made deterrence work. More accurately, deterrence has worked > only thus far.ÝNo guarantees can be given for the future. > > CO: Why did the assassins choose India instead of committing attacks > against Western allies in Afghanistan? > > PH: LeT is based around Lahore, which is on the Pakistan-India border, in > a town called Muridke. This has a huge militant training and charity > complex. LeT's membership is mostly Punjabi, which makes it linguistically > and culturally quite unsuited for fighting in Afghanistan. You could say > that LeT is an India-specific, Kashmir-specific group. Indeed, over the > years it has had many military successes in Kashmir against Indian forces. > But LeT, like other militant groups in Pakistan, sees a nexus between > Indians, Americans, and Israelis. Hence they are all seen as enemies and > fair game. Ý > > CO: What did the Mumbai terrorists want? > > PH: No demands were made and all hostages were killed. So the purpose of > the attack was never formally declared. On the other hand, the stated > goals of LeT and similar organizations based in Pakistan leave little > doubt. The attack clearly sought to hurt India's economy and its newly > acquired reputation as an economic powerhouse, and to create a climate of > war between India and Pakistan. If Pakistan moves its troops towards the > eastern border the pressure on the Pakistani Taliban in FATA, which is > close to the western border, would be lessened. Still another reason > would be to encourage pogroms against Muslims in India. This would swell > the ranks of the extremists,Ýand also have the added benefit of > destabilizing both the Pakistani and Indian states. Finally, the attack > was a means of releasing hatred against non-Muslims. Ý > > CO: What differences and parallels do you see between the Mumbai attacks > and the attack in the in Marriott Hotel in Islamabad? > > PH: They were quite dissimilar in how they were executed. The Mumbai > attacks were extremely intricate, used GPS and voice-over-internet > protocols for communication purposes, involved extensive military > training, and probably required planning over a period of a year. The goal > was to kill foreigners, particularly Jews and Americans, although Muslims > were also collateral casualties. On the other hand, the Marriot bombing in > Islamabad was a relatively simple affair involving a single dump-truck > > with a suicide bomber, and its victims were principally Muslims. The basic > purpose, however, was similar - to destabilize the Pakistani state, take > revenge on the US (2 of the 58 killed were US marines), and raise the cost > of war in Afghanistan and FATA. > > CO: In the West experts talk about a new dimension of terror in India. Do > you also see tight connections between Lashkar-e-TaibaÝ and al-Qaida? > > PH: One is naturally tempted to guess a nexus between LeT and Al-Qaida. > Of course, they do share similar goals. But in the world that extremists > inhabit, mere similarity is insufficient - it has to be much closer than > that because small ideological differences are amplified out of > proportion. As yet there is no proof of joint operations or cooperation. > So presently this is no more than a plausible hypothesis. > > CO: What role does Kashmir play in the current conflict? > > PH: Since 1987, Kashmir has been in a state of upheaval. Fraudulent > > elections conducted by India led to widespread resentment, followed by a > horrifically bloody crackdown by Indian security forces. Pakistan's army > saw opportunity in this, and waged a covert war in Kashmir using jihadists > to "bleed India with a thousand cuts". The United Jihad Council, which > oversees the activities of an estimated 22 Pakistan-based organizations, > acts outside of the domain of the Pakistani state but it has had active > support from the countryís army and intelligence agencies. The Kargil > conflict in 1999 brought matters to a head when General Musharraf > initiated a war with the assistance of jihadist forces. This inflicted > severe damage on Indian forces but Pakistan was ultimately forced to > withdraw. Jihadists subsequently celebrated General Musharraf as a hero, > and vilified Nawaz Sharif for a cowardly surrender. > > CO: In January 2002, General Musharraf had declared that no groups on > Pakistani territory would be permitted to launch cross-border attacks. Was > this promise fulfilled? > > PH: Subsequently there indeed was a decline in cross-border infiltrations, > and some lessening of the covert support given by Pakistani agencies. But > this was far from zero and they maintained a strong presence. On a > personal note: soon after the terrible October 8, 2005 earthquake, I had > gone to various areas of Azad Kashmir for relief work. There I found the > Lashkar-i-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Sipah-i-Sahaba, and other banned > jihadist organizations operating openly and freely using military-style > six-wheeled vehicles, as well as displaying their weapons. Their relief > efforts were far better organized than that of the Pakistan army and, in > fact, they were pulling injured soldiers out of the rubble. When I > mentioned this fact to General Musharraf a few months later at a Kashmir > peace conference, he was very angry at me for discussing a tabooed > subject. > > CO: On the one hand, we have radical extremists in Pakistan who want to > bring strict Islamic law into force and demonize the West. On the other > hand, however, the government presents itself as a friend and ally of the > United States. Could you please describe this antagonism and explain where > it originates from? What does this tell us about the growth of extremism > in Pakistan? > > PH: Radical extremism is the illegitimate offspring of a union between the > United States under Ronald Reagan, and Pakistan under General Zia-ul-Haq. > Twenty five years ago, the two countries had joined up to harness Islamic > fighters for expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan. The US was quite > happy to see radical Islam spreading because it served its goal at the > time. Simultaneously, Pakistan saw a major social transformation under > General Zia. Prayers in government departments were deemed compulsory, > floggings were carried out publicly, punishments were meted out to those > who did not fast in Ramadan, selection for university academic posts > required that the candidate demonstrate knowledge of Islamic teachings, > and jihad was declared essential for every Muslim. But today the > government is in open conflict with the radicals. It has to deal with a > spontaneous groundswell of Islamic zeal. The notion of an Islamic state - > > as yet in some amorphous and diffuse form - is more popular today than > ever before as people look desperately for miracles to rescue a failing > state. Even though the government and military in Pakistan are allied > formally to the US, the people are strongly against the US. > > CO: What parts of the Pakistani society support al-Qaida and Osama bin > Laden? > > PH: Baluchistan and Sind are far less supportive than Punjab or the NWFP. > The amazing fact is that parts of Pakistan's upper class - which is very > Westernized but also very anti-Western - also support the Islamists. I > find it tragic that there is no uproar in the country when Taliban suicide > bombers target mosques, funerals, hospitals, girls schools, and slaughter > policemen and soldiers. People have become so anti-American that it has > blinded them to these atrocities. Even the Pakistani left is thoroughly > confused and mistakes the Taliban as anti-imperialist fighters. > > > CO: And where do you stand on this matter? Do you see anything that the > Islamists have to offer? > > PH: The people of Pakistan need and deserve everything that people > everywhere else want. This means food, jobs, houses to live in, a system > of justice and governance, and protection of life and property. Equally, > people need freedom of worship and thought, education for both males and > females, and protection of their freedom as summarized in the Universal > Declaration of Human Rights. These are everybody's primary needs. After > this - a distinct second - come matters that deal with national > sovereignty, foreign policy, various global issues, etc. Frankly, I cannot > see Pakistanís Islamists offering anything positive. They are against > population planning, educating females, tolerating other sects or > religions, etc. They neither know the outside world, nor want to know it. > All they know - and know well - is how to make war. Fortunately, as their > rout in the recent elections showed, most Pakistanis do not want to live > under their narrow doctrines and belief system. > > CO: President Asif AliÝ Zardari promised to hunt terrorists and to destroy > terror camps in Pakistan? But his affirmations seem to be halfhearted. > Can't he do more or doesn't he want do more? > > PH: It is not up to him to do more. The real power lies with the Pakistan > Army, which is still undecided as to who the real enemy is. The Army has > lost nearly two thousand soldiers in battles with extremists. But it still > cannot convince itself that they constitute an existentialist threat to > Pakistan. One can understand this reluctance. Over the years, officers and > soldiers were recruited into the Army on the basis that they were > defenders of Islam and would always fight India. Instead they now have to > fight forces that claim to be even better defenders of Islam. Worse, they > are no longer being called upon to fight India, which is what they were > trained for. So there is confusion and demoralization, and practically > zero public understanding or support. Therefore, Pakistani soldiers are > not fighting well at all in FATA. Many have surrendered without a fight. > > CO: Do you support the government's war against extremists? > > PH: This is the first time in my life that I feel the Army should be > supported, but only to the extent that it fights the extremists without > killing innocents. Unfortunately, the Army's current tactic is to flatten > villages suspected of harbouring terrorists. The collateral damage is huge > and completely unacceptable. > > CO: Pakistan has armed and financed the Taliban after the US invasion of > Afghanistan. The CIA pays Pakistan to arrest al-Qaeda operatives, but > Pakistan uses the money to fund the Taliban resurgence in northwest > Pakistan. Any changes under the new president? > > PH: It will take time - and perhaps still more suffering - to kick an old > habit. Even though the Army is being literally slaughtered by the Taliban, > it continues to make a distinction between the "good" and "bad" Taliban. > The good ones are, by definition, those who attack only US/Nato or Indian > interests in Afghanistan, but do not attack the Pakistan Army. The good > ones are seen as essential for having a friendly Afghanistan when, as will > > surely happen some day, the Americans withdraw. Among the good Taliban are > jihadist leaders such as Jalaludin Haqqani. On the other hand, Baitullah > Mehsud or Maulana Fazlullah, are considered bad Taliban because they > attack the Army and the state. Interestingly, Army inspired propaganda > paints the bad Taliban as Indian agents - which is quite ridiculous. This > false differentiation is the real reason for the Army's ambivalence and > inability to deal effectively with the Taliban menace. > > CO: Pakistan is a nuclear state. Should we fear that one day the Taliban > or al-Qaida could get access to the nuclear arsenal? > > PH: I am more worried about extremists having access to nuclear materials, > particularly highly enriched uranium, rather than a completed weapon. > Because of secrecy requirements, it is very difficult for outsiders to > monitor the output of uranium enrichment or plutonium reprocessing plants. > > Interestingly, we are seeing a shift away from nuclear weapons in the > West. The unusability of nuclear weapons by national states is being > recognized even by mainstream politicians in the US and Europe because > nuclear weapons now no longer guarantee the monopoly of power. This makes > possible the ultimate de-legitimization of nuclear weapons, and hence > winding down of fissile material production globally. This may be our best > long-term hope of countering the nuclear terrorist threat, whether by > Al-Qaida or other terrorist groups. Meanwhile, in the short term, great > care must be given to watching over suspicious nuclear activities. > > CO: What should India do and what is your forecast for the region? > > PH: India should not attack Pakistan. This would be counter-productive in > every possible way. Even if it wins a war, it will be a pyrrhic victory. > On the other hand, a small attack can be no more than a pin-prick. This > would do more harm than good because it will unite the army and the > jihadists who, at this juncture in history, are in serious confrontation > with each other. Worse, even a small attack could lead to large response, > and then escalate out of control. Nuclear armed countries simply cannot > afford skirmishes. I think India's demand for action against jihadist > groups is entirely legitimate, but this must be done by Pakistan, which is > susceptible to international pressure. To get rid of militants and > extremists - whether Muslim or Hindu - is in the best interests of both > Pakistan and India. > > CO: Will Pakistani extremists win or can the West still bring about a > rebound? > > PH: It's a grim situation but not irreversible. The invasion of Iraq, and > US imperial policies over the last decades, created a hatred for Americans > that ultimately translated into support for all who fight them. Most > Pakistanis do not approve of the Taliban's fundamental and primitivist > social agenda. But, by virtue of fighting the Americans, popular sentiment > is still with them. So, reducing anti-Americanism is the key. One hopes > that Barack Obama will be able to undo some of the harm his country did to > Pakistan. Let's see. But basically it is for Pakistanis - not Indians or > anybody else - to fight it out. We Pakistanis have to realize that this is > a war for our very existence as a civilized nation. Western support for > Pakistan must be very judicious and not too overt. Similarly, isolating > Pakistan, or inflicting harsh punitive measures, could easily backfire. > The Taliban and allied extremists have a real chance of winning in > Pakistan. The state is already crumbling in places and it could > disintegrate quite rapidly, leaving the fanatics in charge. One cannot > think of a bigger disaster for Pakistan. > > ------------- > > **************** > 3/4 > *An article written by Anand Patwardhan which was rejected by the Times of > India:* > > *Terror: The Aftermath* > *Anand PAtwardhan. > > *The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame > game > and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we > amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm > our > police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the > USA > did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us > further > into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives on > reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge. > > The External Terror > Those who invoke America need only to analyze if its actions after 9/11 > increased or decreased global terror. It invaded oil-rich Iraq fully > knowing > that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, killing over 200,000 Iraqis > citizens > but allowing a cornered Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan. It recruited > global support for Islamic militancy, which began to be seen as a just > resistance against American mass murder. Which begs the question of who > created Bin Laden in the first place, armed the madarsas of Pakistan and > rejuvenated the concept of Islamic jehad? Israel played its own role in > stoking the fires of jehad. The very creation of Israel in 1948 robbed > Palestinians of their land, an act that Mahatma Gandhi to his credit > deplored at the time as an unjust way to redress the wrongs done to Jews > during the Holocaust. What followed has been a slow and continuing attack > on > the Palestinian nation. At first Palestinian resistance was led by secular > forces represented by Yasser Arafat but as these were successfully > undermined, Islamic forces took over the mantle. The first, largely > non-violent Intifada was crushed, a second more violent one replaced it > and > when all else failed, human bombs appeared. > > Thirty years ago when I first went abroad there were two countries my > Indian > passport forbade me to visit. One was racist South Africa. The other was > Israel. We were non-aligned and stood for disarmament and world peace. > Today > Israel and America are our biggest military allies. Is it surprising that > we > are on the jehadi hit list? Israel, America and other prosperous countries > can to an extent protect themselves against the determined jehadi, but can > India put an impenetrable shield over itself? Remember that when attackers > are on a suicide mission, the strongest shields have crumbled. New York > was > laid low not with nuclear weapons but with a pair of box cutters. India is > for many reasons a quintessentially soft target. Our huge population, vast > landmass and coastline are impossible to protect. The rich may build new > barricades. The Taj and the Oberoi can be made safer. So can our airports > and planes. Can our railway stations and trains, bus stops, busses, > markets > and lanes do the same? > > The Terror Within > The threat of terror in India does not come exclusively from the outside. > Apart from being hugely populated by the poor India is also a country > divided, not just between rich and poor, but by religion, caste and > language. This internal divide is as potent a breeding ground for terror > as > jehadi camps abroad. Nor is jehad the copyright of one religion alone. It > can be argued that international causes apart, India has jehadis that are > fully home grown. Perhaps the earliest famous one was Nathuram Godse who > acting at the behest of his mentor Vinayak Savarkar (still referred to as > "Veer" or "brave" although he refused to own up to his role in the > conspiracy), murdered Mahatma Gandhi for the crime of championing Muslims. > > Jump forward to 6th December, 1992, the day Hindu fanatics demolished the > Babri Mosque setting into motion a chain of events that still wreaks havoc > today. From the Bombay riots of 1992 to the bomb blasts of 1993, the > Gujarat > pogroms of 2002 and hundreds of smaller deadly events, the last 16 years > have been the bloodiest since Partition. Action has been followed by > reaction in an endless cycle of escalating retribution. At the core on the > Hindu side of terror are organizations that openly admire Adolph Hitler, > nursing the hate of historic wrongs inflicted by Muslims. Ironically these > votaries of Hitler remain friends and admirers of Israel. > > On the Muslim side of terror are scores of disaffected youth, many of whom > have seen their families tortured and killed in more recent pogroms. > Christians too have fallen victim to recent Hindutva terror but as yet not > formed the mechanisms for revenge. Dalits despite centuries of caste > oppression, have not yet retaliated in violence although a small fraction > is > being drawn into an armed struggle waged by Naxalites. > > It is clear that no amount of spending on defense, no amount of patrolling > the high seas, no amount of increasing the military and police and > equipping > them with the latest weaponry can end the cycle of violence or place India > under a bubble of safety. Just as nuclear India did not lead to more > safety, > but only to a nuclear Pakistan, no amount of homeland security can save > us. > And inviting Israel's Mossad and America's CIA/FBI to the security table > is > like giving the anti-virus contract to those who spread the virus in the > first place. It can only make us more of a target for the next determined > jehadi attack. > > Policing, Justice and the Media > As for draconian anti-terror laws, they too only breed terror as for the > most part they are implemented by a State machinery that has imbibed > majoritarian values. So in Modi's Gujarat after the ethnic cleansing of > Muslims in 2002, despite scores of confessions to rape and murder captured > on hidden camera, virtually no Hindu extremists were punished while > thousands of Muslims rotted in jail under draconian laws. The same > happened > in Bombay despite the Shiv Sena being found guilty by the Justice > Shrikrishna Commission. Under pressure a few cases were finally brought to > trial but all escaped with the lightest of knuckle raps. In stark contrast > many Muslims accused in the 1993 bomb blasts were given death sentences. > > The bulk of our media, policing and judicial systems swallows the canard > that Muslims are by nature violent. Removing democratic safeguards > guaranteed by the Constitution can only make this worse. Every act of > wrongful imprisonment and torture that then follows is likely to turn > innocents into material for future terrorists to draw upon. Already the > double standards are visible. While the Students Islamic Movement of India > is banned, Hindutva outfits like the RSS, the VHP, the Bajrang Dal, and > the > Shiv Sena remain legal entities. The leader of the MNS, Raj Thackeray > recently openly spread such hatred that several north Indians were killed > by > lynch mobs. Amongst these were the Dube brothers, doctors from Kalyan who > treated the poor for a grand fee of Rs.10 per patient. Raj Thackeray like > his uncle Bal before him, remains free after issuing public threats that > Bombay would burn if anyone had the guts to arrest him. Modi remains free > despite the pogroms of Gujarat. Congress party murderers of Sikhs in 1984 > remain free. Justice in India is clearly not there for all. Increasing the > powers of the police cannot solve this problem. Only honest and unbiased > implementation of laws that exist, can. > > It is a tragedy of the highest proportions that one such honest policeman, > Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who had begun to unravel the > thread of Hindutva terror was himself gunned down, perhaps by Muslim > terror. > It is reported that Col. Purohit and fellow Hindutva conspirators now in > judicial custody, celebrated the news of Karkare's death. Until Karkare > took > charge, the Malegaon bomb blasts in which Muslims were killed and the > Samjhauta Express blasts in which Pakistani visitors to India were killed > were being blamed on Muslims. Karkare exposed a hitherto unknown Hindutva > outfit as masterminding a series of killer blasts across the country. For > his pains Karkare came under vicious attack not just from militant > Hindutva > but from the mainstream BJP. He was under tremendous pressure to prove his > patriotism. Was it this that led this senior officer to don helmet and > ill-fitting bullet proof vest and rush into battle with a pistol? Or was > it > just his natural instinct, the same courage that had led him against all > odds, to expose Hindutva terror? > > Whatever it was, it only underlines the fact that jehadis of all kinds are > actually allies of each other. So Bin Laden served George Bush and > vice-versa. So Islamic and Hindutva jehadis have served each other for > years. Do they care who dies? Of the 200 people killed in the last few > days > by Islamic jehadis, a high number were Muslims. Many were waiting to board > trains to celebrate Eid in their hometowns in UP and Bihar, when their > co-religionists gunned them down. Shockingly the media has not commented > on > this, nor focused on the tragedy at the railway station, choosing to > concentrate on tragedies that befell the well-to-do. And it is the media > that is leading the charge to turn us into a war-mongering police state > where we may lead lives with an illusion of safety, but with the certainty > of joylessness. > > I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places > and > at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is > accompanied > by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every > part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not > crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and > humanity, > when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to > the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of > "patriots" and zealots. > > > ************* > 4/4 > Mordecai Briemberg of Vancouver-based People's Radio talks with Hari > Sharma > > > http://www.rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/redeye/understanding-assault-mumbai > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 17 22:08:02 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:38:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Let's Buy Pakistan's Nukes" - Bret Stephens in WSJ Message-ID: <486173.37496.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I just heard great alarm being expressed in a discussion on PTV (Pakistan Television) about an article in WSJ.   The article was seen as insulting Pakistan and as being a part of the international conspiracy that cannot bear to see (and wants to neutralise) "Mussalmanon ke paas nuclear bomb" (Nuclear Bomb with the Muslims). It was opined that the The "Amriki" (American) Bret Stephens did not realise what "gairatt vaali qom" (self-respecting nation) Pakistan was.   THE article is reproduced below.   Kshmendra     OPINION: GLOBAL VIEW  DECEMBER 16, 2008   "Let's Buy Pakistan's Nukes"  By BRET STEPHENS   Every visitor to Pakistan has seen them: 20-foot tall roadside replicas of a remote mountain where, a decade ago, Pakistan conducted its first overt nuclear tests. This is what the country's leaders -- military, secular, Islamist -- consider their greatest achievement.   So here's a modest proposal: Let's buy their arsenal.   A.Q. Khan, father of Pakistan's nuclear program (and midwife to a few others), likes to point out what a feat it was that a country "where we can't even make a bicycle chain" could succeed at such an immense technological task. He exaggerates somewhat: Pakistan got its bomb largely through a combination of industrial theft, systematic violation of Western export controls, and a blueprint of a weapon courtesy of Beijing.   Still, give Mr. Khan this: Thanks partly to his efforts, a country that has impoverished the great mass of its own people, corruptly enriched a tiny handful of elites, served as a base of terrorism against its neighbors, lost control of its intelligence services, radicalized untold numbers of Muslims in its madrassas, handed the presidency to a man known as Mr. 10%, and proliferated nuclear technology to Libya and Iran (among others) has, nevertheless, made itself a power to be reckoned with. Congratulations.   But if Pakistanis thought a bomb would be a net national asset, they miscalculated. Yes, Islamabad gained parity with its adversaries in New Delhi, gained prestige in the Muslim world, and gained a day of national pride, celebrated every May 28.   What Pakistan didn't gain was greater security. "The most significant reality was that the bomb promoted a culture of violence which . . . acquired the form of a monster with innumerable heads of terror," wrote Pakistani nuclear physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy earlier this year. "Because of this bomb, we can definitely destroy India and be destroyed in its response. But its function is limited to this."   In 2007, some 1,500 Pakistani civilians were killed in terrorist attacks. None of those attacks were perpetrated by India or any other country against which Pakistan's warheads could be targeted, unless it aimed at itself. But Pakistan's nuclear arsenal has made it an inviting target for the jihadists who blew up Islamabad's Marriott hotel in September and would gladly blow up the rest of the capital as a prelude to taking it over.   The day that happens may not be so very far off. President Asif Ali Zardari was recently in the U.S. asking for $100 billion to stave off economic collapse. So far, the international community has ponied up about $15 billion. That puts Mr. Zardari $85 billion shy of his fund-raising target. Meantime, the average Taliban foot soldier brings home monthly wages that are 30% higher than uniformed Pakistani security personnel.   Preventing the disintegration of Pakistan, perhaps in the wake of a war with India (how much restraint will New Delhi show after the next Mumbai-style atrocity?), will be the Obama administration's most urgent foreign-policy challenge. Since Mr. Obama has already committed a trillion or so in new domestic spending, what's $100 billion in the cause of saving the world?   This is the deal I have in mind. The government of Pakistan would verifiably eliminate its entire nuclear stockpile and the industrial base that sustains it. In exchange, the U.S. and other Western donors would agree to a $100 billion economic package, administered by an independent authority and disbursed over 10 years, on condition that Pakistan remain a democratic and secular state (no military rulers; no Sharia law). It would supplement that package with military aid similar to what the U.S. provides Israel: F-35 fighters, M-1 tanks, Apache helicopters. The U.S. would also extend its nuclear umbrella to Pakistan, just as Hillary Clinton now proposes to do for Israel.   A pipe dream? Not necessarily. People forget that the world has subtracted more nuclear powers over the past two decades than it has added: Kazakhstan, Belarus, Ukraine and South Africa all voluntarily relinquished their stockpiles in the 1990s. Libya did away with its program in 2003 when Moammar Gadhafi concluded that a bomb would be a net liability, and that he had more to gain by coming to terms with the West.   There's no compelling reason Mr. Zardari and his military brass shouldn't reach the same conclusion, assuming excellent terms and desperate circumstances. Sure, a large segment of Pakistanis will never agree. Others, who have subsisted on a diet of leaves and grass so Pakistan could have its bomb, might take a more pragmatic view.   The tragedy of Pakistan is that it remains a country that can't do the basics, like make a bicycle chain. If what its leaders want is prestige, prosperity and lasting security, they could start by creating an economy that can make one -- while unlearning how to make the bomb.   Write to bstephens at wsj.com     http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122939093016909205.html       From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 13:10:00 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:10:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd66c110812170353g4df4e69ep3917653e4889e94a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812172339k1e0910a3h6f55da3c07410d50@mail.gmail.com> Shivam, Just wanted to know if you have problem with'nationalism' and something which supports GOI policy. I have seen you taking a stand akin to Hurriyat in all Kashmir related issues. Though it is your choice , i just was curious if you were born with this problem or you have inherited this over a period of time while interacting with hurriyat and other separatists. Your views may help me understand humans better..... Just curious. Pawan On 12/17/08, Shivam V wrote: > > The Indian media has been expressing surprise about the high voter > turnouts in the Kashmir elections. The expression of surprise sounds > genuine. I am not sure how genuine it is. Nationalism must be coming > in the way of truth. How can we not see what a Wall Street Journal > reporter can? > > EXCERPT: In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army > troops went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up > families and taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove > into the village Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several > soldiers stopped by the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling > the 59-year-old retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the > soldiers jumped into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked > me why I'm not voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of > the candidates," Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I > don't vote, I'll be sorry later." [Must Read] > And wasn't this predicted anyway? Didn't we tell you about Gentle > Persuasion? Oh, and they already know who the CM is going to be. > > Wasn't this predicted anyway? > [1] http://kafila.org/2008/10/05/gentle-persuasion-in-kashmir/ > [2] http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/15/op.htm#1 > > shivam > > o o o > > > > A New Tack in Kashmir > Peaceful Protest Gains in Separatist Fight > > By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV > > > DECEMBER 15, 2008 > SRINAGAR, India -- > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930169820005503.html > > Lashkar-e-Taiba, the presumed perpetrator of last month's Mumbai > attacks, sprang up from the bloody insurgency against Indian rule in > predominantly Muslim Kashmir. While the plight of Kashmir has > galvanized Islamic radicalism across South Asia, the decades-long > armed struggle is waning in the disputed region itself. > > India now largely faces a different, and potentially more challenging > foe here: peaceful campaigners for self-determination, who borrow from > Mahatma Gandhi's rule book of non-violent resistance. > > "India is not scared of the guns here in Kashmir -- it has a thousand > times more guns. What it is scared of is people coming out in the > streets, people seeing the power of nonviolent struggle," says the > Muslim Kashmiris' spiritual leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key > organizer of the civil disobedience campaign that began earlier this > year. The number of armed attacks in the valley, meanwhile, has > dropped to its lowest since the insurgency began in 1989, Indian > officials say. > > The former princely state known as Jammu and Kashmir was divided > between India and Pakistan since 1947, and has been claimed in its > entirety by both ever since. It has long been the main axis of discord > between the two neighbors, now both nuclear-armed. > > Since the early 1990s, Pakistan's intelligence services trained and > financed Kashmiri militant groups such as Lashkar, helping fuel a > conflict that has cost 60,000 lives. Mr. Farooq's father was gunned > down by suspected jihadi militants in 1990 for seeming too > accommodating to India. > > Mr. Farooq, who heads the All-Parties Hurriyat Conference, an umbrella > group of Kashmiri parties that want independence or merger with > Pakistan, has been kept under house arrest. Kashmir's Grand Mosque in > Srinagar, where Mr. Farooq usually delivers the weekly sermon, has > stood empty for several Fridays, its gates ringed by barbed wire and > its perimeter patrolled by troops. > > The rest of Srinagar, Kashmir's tense capital city, has been under > curfew for days. Fearful of mass demonstrations against Indian rule > and controversial elections, troops blocked the roads. Every few > hours, small clashes broke out with stone-hurling teenagers. > > Fading Attacks > > Earlier this year, unarmed protests organized by Mr. Farooq and other > separatist campaigners rocked Kashmir, causing the downfall of the > state government as demonstrators thronged the roads waving green > banners of Islam and chanting "Azadi" -- "Freedom." > > Militant attacks, once a daily occurrence that drove out 300,000 > Kashmiri Hindus, have become much less frequent. Indian officials say > as few as 600 armed insurgents remain in Jammu and Kashmir. > > Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, a key organizer of a Kashmiri civil-disobedience > campaign that began earlier this year, is now kept under house arrest > by Indian troops. Here he leads a 2007 protest in front of his > ancestral home. > > The changing nature of the separatist struggle makes it increasingly > difficult for India to portray the conflict over Kashmir as a > clear-cut fight between the world's largest democracy and murderous > terrorists. Unlike Lashkar's jihadis, unarmed protesters in Kashmir > can muster sympathy from sections of Western, and Indian, public > opinion. > > "It's justified when you kill a militant, but it's not justified when > you kill a demonstrator," says Kashmir's leading pro-Indian politician > Mufti Muhammad Sayeed, India's home minister at the peak of the > Kashmiri insurgency and Kashmir's chief minister in 2002-2005. > > Many among the new generation of Kashmiri protesters say they are > happy that the insurgents no longer prowl the streets, demanding > shelter and food from civilians, enforcing rigid Islamic observance -- > and attracting army reprisals. "It's good that the militants are gone. > What we need is to fight for our freedom in a peaceful environment," > says 22-year-old farmer Tanha Gul from the town of Pulwama south of > Srinagar, who says he has participated in every demonstration in his > area. > > Indian officials acknowledge the change in popular attitudes. "People > want peace. Nobody wants to be disturbed in the evening - not by the > militants, and not by the forces," says Kashmir's chief of police, B. > Srinivas. > > Still, responding to recent demonstrations, Indian troops often > resorted to lethal force, killing more than 50 Kashmiri civilians. > Scores of protesters and separatist politicians have been thrown > behind bars or placed under house arrest. Indian officials say these > detentions are necessary to preserve public peace, and that the troops > have to use force to maintain law and order. > > Some half a million Indian soldiers and policemen remain deployed in > the Indian-administered part of Jammu and Kashmir, home to 10 million > people. (About 5 million people live in Pakistani-held Kashmir.) > Indian laws grant troops in Kashmir almost total immunity from > prosecution, including in cases of civilian deaths. Srinagar, once > India's prime tourist destination, is dotted by checkpoints, its > indoor stadium, cinemas and hotels surrounded by sandbags and > converted into military camps. Broadcast media are censored. > > New restrictions have been added in recent months, such as an order to > disable mobile-phone text messaging -- a key method of mobilizing > protesters -- on cellphone networks that operate in Kashmir. > > The event that sparked these protests, bringing Kashmiri civilians > into the streets, was a decision last May by the state government to > transfer land near the Amarnath to a Hindu religious organization. > This land near the shrine -- a cave in which an ice stalagmite forms > every winter -- has been used for years to shelter pilgrims. But large > tracts of the region already are requisitioned for army and police > use, and the formal transfer stoked fears of a widespread land grab. > > Snowballing Protests > > In June, snowballing Kashmiri protests over the issue prompted Mr. > Mufti Muhammad's People's Democratic Party to withdraw from the state > government. The following month the collapsing state government > revoked the land transfer decision. As federal rule was imposed, fresh > riots broke out in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu part of the state. > > While the plight of Kashmir has galvanized Islamic radicalism across > South Asia, the armed struggle is waning in the disputed region. > At the peak of Kashmir's peach and pear season, Hindu protesters in > Jammu blocked the only highway linking the valley with the rest of > India. With the fruit harvest -- the valley's key export -- rotting > away, Kashmir's fruit growers' union called for opening an alternative > trade route -- through Pakistani-held Kashmir. Defying curfew orders, > on Aug. 10 thousands of fruit growers and separatist activists marched > towards the cease-fire line. The protest column was met with gunfire > from Indian forces. Fifteen marchers were shot dead, including a > prominent separatist. > > As Kashmir descended into chaos after these killings, India responded > with increasingly severe curfews and lockdowns that continue. Often > they come without prior warning or formal announcement, as in Srinagar > over the past weekend. > > "Common people like me are made to suffer continually," says Ghulam > Rasool Sailani, a milk merchant who has been sitting at home in > Srinagar, unable to trade, over the past three days. "It's hard. Our > losses are huge because our incomes are so low." > > One of Mr. Sailani's regular clients was Mohammad Yacoub Jaan, a > 35-year-old father of three. On Aug. 24, as he carried home a metallic > milk container, Mr. Jaan encountered three policemen a few yards from > his doorstep. As they beat Mr. Jaan with bamboo sticks for violating > the curfew, the milk spilled from the container and soiled the > officers' uniforms, according to Mr. Jaan and neighbors who say they > witnessed the incident. They say an enraged officer opened fire with > his assault rifle, shooting Mr. Jaan through the throat and the side. > > Hearing the shooting, Mr. Jaan's relatives rushed outdoors. As Mr. > Jaan's 65-year-old father Ghulam Qadir tried to plead with policemen > to stop beating his son, they shot at him too, the witnesses said. He > was instantly killed. "After that, everyone just scattered away, their > caps falling into the drains," recalls Mr. Jaan's wife, Asmat. Mr. > Jaan, who remains paralyzed, says no representative of the authorities > has contacted him since the shootings. > > Mr. Srinivas, the Kashmir chief of police, says that curfews and other > restrictions are needed to prevent greater violence. "I don't want the > peace-loving people of Srinagar to be disturbed by rogue elements," he > says in an interview. As for allegations of abuse, he adds, > investigations are under way. > > Anger Over Disparity > > Some pro-Indian Kashmiri politicians have been angered by the > disparity they say security forces have shown when dealing with Hindu > protests in Jammu and the Muslim demonstrations in Kashmir. "Lives are > cheap in Kashmir," says Omar Abdullah, president of the National > Conference party and India's former federal minister of state for > external affairs. "I'm still struggling to understand how the same > chain of command had two completely different approaches to crowd > control." > > Kashmir's information secretary, K.B. Jandial, says there was no > disparity, and that every individual incident has to be considered > separately. > > Mr. Abdullah's party, the biggest in the previous legislature, is > currently battling for the right to form the next state government in > elections that began last month and end on Dec. 24. Even though > separatist parties have called for a boycott, the turnout so far is > among the highest on record. Indian officials view such high > participation as a rebuke to Pakistan and Pakistani-backed > separatists. > > But many voters who lined up at the polls Saturday in south Kashmir, > for example, also turned out at anti-Indian protest marches weeks > earlier. In the town of Tral, 20-year-old student Manzur Ahmad said > that he was voting for an incumbent candidate because, in recent > years, the lawmaker had managed to curb the harassment of local youths > by government forces. "We vote because this makes our lives easier - > but this doesn't mean we don't want freedom," he said. > > In the village of Samboora, residents said that Indian Army troops > went from house to house on Saturday morning, rounding up families and > taking them to a polling station. As a reporter drove into the village > Saturday afternoon, an army vehicle with several soldiers stopped by > the walled compound of Ghulam Mohammad, pulling the 59-year-old > retiree onto the road. Seeing a foreign reporter, the soldiers jumped > into their vehicle and quickly drove off. "They asked me why I'm not > voting, and I said that's because I don't like any of the candidates," > Mr. Mohammad said moments later. "They said, if I don't vote, I'll be > sorry later." > > In another south Kashmiri village, Koeil, a similar police effort to > round up voters degenerated into clashes with stone-throwing youths. > As a reporter arrived on the scene, dozens of police officers charged > along the main street, firing tear-gas volleys. Many policemen also > picked up rocks and hurled them into villagers' homes, breaking > windows. > > "My boys are irritated. They just want to let them know we're here, to > scare them," the district senior superintendent of police who oversaw > the operation, Ali Mohammad Bhatt, said when asked about the > window-breaking. "Ultimately, if you restrain your force and don't > kill anybody, your job is done," Mr. Bhatt added. > > Half an hour later, Indian forces in the village opened fire at the > protesters, killing a 20-year-old student and seriously injuring three > others, including a 14-year-old boy whose arm and intestines were > pierced by high-velocity Kalashnikov bullets. "Once you take the law > into your hands, the forces or police have to take action," the Jammu > and Kashmir information secretary, Mr. Jandial, said when asked about > the shootings. > > As for allegations of voter coercion, he said he wasn't aware of any: > "If ever there is a coercion, it's on the part of people pressing for > a boycott." > > Continuing bloodshed may end up reversing Kashmir's recent shift > towards unarmed campaigning. Sitting on the porch of a shuttered store > near Srinagar's Grand Mosque, two former insurgents bristled with > anger this weekend. Then, one of them, Iqbal Sheikh, spat on the > ground and said: "When the small kids who throw stones are met with > bullets, many people want to take up guns again." > > Write to Yaroslav Trofimov at yaroslav.trofimov at wsj.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 13:23:04 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:23:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kasab brought from Nepal by Indian forces? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812172353i774ca638ld199e10af1e72437@mail.gmail.com> Something is verry common to Fatimas and Antulays of this world............And then they say we are very much Indian..... On 12/16/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: > > Sorry, I don't want to promote any conspiracy theories, but this one > sounded too interesting: > --- > > Kasab was arrested by Indian agencies in Kathmandu 2 years ago > > 16 Dec 2008, 0814 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES > > Adding a twist to the conspiracy theories in Pakistan's media, a > lawyer C M Farooque has claimed that the surviving Mumbai attack > accused Ajmal Kasab was arrested in Kathmandu in 2006 by Indian > agencies with the help of Nepalese forces, media reported from > Rawalpindi on Monday. > > ''C M Farooque, Advocate, said the Nepalese forces arrested almost 200 > people including Kasab before 2006 and his application in this regard > was lying pending in the Nepalese supreme court in which Nepalese > forces and Indian High Commission were made respondents,'' said the > report . > > It added that the advocate had claimed he wrote letters to Pakistan > and Indian governments and addressed a press conference in Nepal on > the issue . The report further said that Kasab's parents had contacted > Farooque's NGO for help. > > It concluded, '' The people arrested in Nepal had gone there on legal > visa for business but Indian agencies were in the habit of capturing > Pakistanis from Nepal and afterwards implicated them in the Mumbailike > incidents to malign Pakistan .'' In the meantime, sabrerattling > ratcheted up in Pakistan's media, both English and Urdu, following > reports of 'incursions ' by IAF jets. > > Although India denied any such incident, and Pakistan's political > leadership played it down, several newspaper editorials in Pakistani > papers believe otherwise, and ticked off the Pakistan government for > its soft attitude. > > The Peshawar-based Frontier Post said in a sharp editorial , '' When > the Indian fighter planes intruded into our territory the same day by > at least four kilometres in our two sectors located far apart, this > cannot be believed to be inadvertent trespassing.'' > > It went on to warn '' if the Pakistan leadership keeps acting as the > apologist of this patently provocative Indian intrusion, it is only > shooting itself in the foot''. > > The tone was censorial in The Nation's editorial as well. '' Aerial > incursions could have been a right time for Islamabad to mount a > diplomatic offensive and raise the issue of these violations at the UN > to ward off any future military adventurism by India,'' said the > daily. > > The News, too, suggested that the alleged incursions were no > 'mistake'. '' Both New Delhi and Islamabad have put the incident down > to a 'mistake' , this sounds unconvincing. The fact that the > incursions happened within 24 hours in two separate sectors makes the > official explanations seem still less likely . It is thought the > Indians may have been attempting to test readiness,'' said its > editorial. > > Pakistan's leading Urdu daily , Jang, lashed out at India for > aggravating the strained Indo-Pak relationship. Its editorial said > that India has dangerous intentions and Pakistan should be prepared to > meet any challenge . > > Reminding India that the 17 million Pakistanis have a right to defend > their sovereignty , the editorial said that Pakistan could go to any > extent to protect itself. An opinion piece by economist Kaiser Bengali > in the Dawn provided a argument against state patronage of terrorists > . > > ''Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organizational , financial > and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the > jihadis. Clearly , such an infrastructure cannot operate without > tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state > agencies.'' > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 13:39:22 2008 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:39:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Please Pay Your Bill Before You Leave, Mr Tata! Message-ID: <5c5369880812180009n58f5964awdb7a21d0520ccd26@mail.gmail.com> Mainstream Vol XLVI, No 51 Please Pay Your Bill Before You Leave, Mr Tata! by D. Bandyopadhyay, 12 December 2008 (The author was the Secretary to the Government of India, Ministries of Finance (Revenue) and Rural Development, and the Executive Director, Asian Development Bank, Manila.) On October 3, 2008, at a press conference at Kolkata, Ratan Tata formally announced his decision to move out the Nano Project from West Bengal squarely blaming the agitation led by the Trinamul Congress for his decision to relocate the plant. This statement clearly reflected some of the discussions that he had with the Chief Minister of West Bengal with whom he was closeted for two hours before the press conference. He spoke persuasively with unwarranted venom. One cannot blame Tata for his lack of knowledge of the character, trait and heritage of the popular upsurges in West Bengal. Singur was one of the epicentres of the Tebhaga movement in the late forties of the last century led by the old and unsullied Communist Party of India. There is a famous story by Manik Bandyopadhyay called "Chhoto Bakul Purer Yatri" on that episode. Its locale was Bara-Kamalapur in Singur. A blue-blooded bourgeois totally alienated from the common people cannot have any perception about any popular movement against gross violation of their basic right to life and livelihood. He cannot be faulted for it. After all, the Tatas made their primary accumulation of capital through opium trade in China in the nineteenth century. Use of opium was prohibited under law in China. The East India Company and its minor trading partners, among which the Tatas were one, started illegal importation of opium into China from India. The Chinese Government strongly objected to this. The British waged the first Opium War (1839-42) in which China lost resulting in the Treaty of Nanjing, 1842. It imposed insulting and highly unfavourable conditions against China and in favour of the British. Then there was a second Opium War in 1856-60 wherein the British triumphed again and forcibly legalised contraband trade in opium in China. The Tatas and a few other Indian traders made enormous profit from this trade in a contraband commodity in China. Wealth creates hauteur. Hence we may excuse Tata for his slightly less than civilised behaviour in slandering Ms Mamata Banerjee at the press conference. He did not show any concern for or kindness to the land losers of Singur but it is reported that he donated US$ 50 million to Cornell University only recently. But what about the Communist Party of India-Marxist? Did it not take a Royal Charter of monopoly for representing the "oppressed" who stood in constant opposition to the "oppressor" and who are in a constant fight, "a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes"? The Chief Minister of West Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, while opening a SEZ project at the New Town Rajarhat on October 5, 2008, declared that he had "lost a battle, but not the war". A question naturally arises: for whom is he waging this war? While commenting on the adverse economic effects of SEZs, Professor Amit Bhaduri observed: "The devil in angel's guise would soon appear when large populations in rural areas would be rendered landless, jobless, homeless, incomeless, rootless and displaced making way for SEZs, the so-called epitomes of economic development." Bravo Mr Chief Minister, for so transparently exposing the class affiliation of yourself and your party! You have openly promised to wage a war in favour of the oppressors and against the oppressed. It is only to be hoped that it ends in the reconstitution of the society in favour of monopoly capital. In ensuring this objective, the CPI-M would fulfil its historic mission of total subjugation and annihilation of workers and peasants making the world safe for the bourgeoisie. It perhaps validates the saying "Money Speaks"! The Government of West Bengal (GOWB) published 13 notifications under Section 4 of the Land Acquisition Act 1894 in July 2006 declaring its intentions to acquire roughly 1000 acres of land in five mauzas of Singur abutting the Durgapur Express Highway. All the 13 notifications had the same common clause. It stated that land mentioned in the Schedule blow is likely to be needed to be taken by Government/Government Undertaking/Development Autho-rities, at the public expense for a public purpose (emphasis ours), viz., employment generation and socio-economic development of the area by setting up of Tata Small Car Project, etc., etc. Since the government cannot acquire any land for a private company except through the procedure laid down in the Chapter-VII of the Land Acquisition Act, the GOWB openly committed a fraud on the law and on the public by acquiring the land in the name of the West Bengal Industries Development Corporation (WBIDC-a government company) for leasing out the land to Tata Motors Ltd (TML). This chicanery on the part of the GOWB enabled the Tatas to get hold of 643 acres of land on lease without paying a paisa. But under this procedure land could be acquired only for a "public purpose". Section 3(f) of the LA Act defines "public purpose". There are eight items under it. But the caveat to this definition is very significant. It says "but does not include acquisition of land for companies". Thus the acquisition of land for the TML was totally illegal. The issue is now pending before the Apex Court. For the exercise of the doctrine of eminent domain a "public purpose" is essential. Hence the GOWB deceitfully tried to make out a case by stating that the small car factory would generate employment and result in socio-economic development in the area. There is no basis for this assertion. Firstly, it did not disclose how many direct jobs would be created in the factory. Secondly, it did not specify how many land losers would get direct employment. Thirdly, the promise of the process of economic development and the resultant prosperity was a rehash of the discredited and discarded "trickle-down theory". Hence it was an exercise in falsehood. Though not conceding the point, let us accept these contentions for the sake of argument. The whole thesis is predicated by the fact that the TML would set up a small car factory. Now that they have decided to move out and are relocating the factory outside West Bengal, the whole thesis vanishes into thin air. There is no small car factory. There would be no employment generation. There would be no socio-economic development of the area. Therefore, there would be no "public purpose". Thus the expenditure of public funds for this non-existing project was a total waste and, therefore, fully unjustified. It calls for criminal action. This has very grave and serious consequences. The whole exercise of acquisition of 1000 acres of land through the use of force, building up of infrastructure for the project which does not exist, supply of free electricity and water, round the clock police protection for two years, construction of an 18.75 km of eight feet high boundary wall with watch tower at regular intervals, were done for nothing. Who would bear this cost? Even with a contrived and convoluted argument of "public purpose", there could have been a fig-leaf of justification of such enormous public expenditure. With the withdrawal of the Tatas all these expenses lose all validity. Some heads should roll. The Tatas withdrew from Singur on their own volition. Therefore, they would have to pay for the cost. That is the logic. That is also the ethics. In fact, the Comptroller and Auditor-General (CAG) of India should conduct a due diligence audit of the WBIDC, Commerce and Industries Department, West Bengal Housing Infrastructure Development Corporation (HIDCO), Bhangore-Rajarhat Area Development Authority (BRADA) and the Police Directorate to compute exactly the loss to the public exchequer due to this abrupt decision of the Tatas to move out from Singur. The CAG should also fix responsibility for this wanton waste of public funds. It would be a slightly time-consuming process but it has to be done for the sake of public accountability, transparency and good governance. Meanwhile to present a provisional bill to the Tatas an attempt is being made here to compute a figure based on the facts and figures as published in the print media about this issue. The Tatas caused enormous loss of public funds for their misadventure in Singur. This provisional figure would be altered once the CAG's report is made available. But it is fair that the Tatas should have an indication of how much they would have to pay back. In the first place, but for the fraud perpetuated by the GOWB the Tatas would have to pay upfront the estimated cost of land acquisition under Chapter VII of the LA Act 1894. Now that there is not even a fig-leaf of public purpose, they would have to reimburse to the State Government a sum of Rs 200 crores, the paid out cost of compensation for the acquisition with some visible overheads. Secondly, the WBIDC or some other State agency constructed an 18.75 km long boundary wall along the outer periphery of the acquired property. We do not know its specifications. It is locally said that the wall is eight feet high with a two-feet foundation underground. Estimates made by a couple of A-class CPWD contractors indicated that it would cost Rs 275 per running metre for a wall of this type with supporting pillars at regular intervals. Thus the estimated cost of construction of this wall would not be less than Rs 51,56,250, that is, roughly Rs 51.56 lakhs. With this one has to add the cost of five big gates. At a conservative estimate that would cost not less than Rs 25 lakhs. Thus the wall with gates would cost not less than 76.56 lakhs. Thirdly, the government provided round-the-clock police protection both during the process of acquisition and after the land was leased out to Tatas. Newspaper reports indicate that approximately 2000 policemen were deployed day and night for the last two years and several months for the protection of the property of the TML. The government did not come out with any fact about it. But the Police Directorate of West Bengal has a standard formula of cost for deployment of 1000 policemen (one battalion strength) including ASI and SI but excluding the salaries of officers of the ranks of Inspector and above. The salary cost per month comes to Rs 80,70,000 which is 83.01 per cent of the actual cost. To this one has to add the cost of uniform, boots and some other basic equipments which would come to Rs 16,51,100 constituting 16.99 per cent of the total monthly cost. Thus the total comes to Rs 97,21,800 per month. This figure does not include the expenses of vehicles, POL, and other heavy equipments without which a police force cannot function. Excluding these items the annual cost of deployment of a battalion of police men comes to Rs 11.67 crores. For two battalions deployed to protect the Tata property the cost would be Rs 23.33 crores. For two years it would be Rs 46.66 crores. This is basically the salary component. The actual cost is much higher. Fourthly, the GOWB committed another act of deception to give financial benefit to the Tatas. The Principal Secretary, Commerce and Industry Department of the GOWB wrote a letter on 12.10.2006 to the Managing Director of the WB Housing Infrastructure Development Corporation (HIDCO) in which, inter alia, he mentioned: In order to bring investment (obviously NANO Unit) in West Bengal, we had to face competition from other States, in particular, Uttaranchal which enjoys zero excise duty benefit in a car proposed to be priced at Rs 1 lakh, the exemption of 16 per cent excise duty makes a major difference. Therefore, in order to make the investment attractive to the TML, the State Government has to offer significant support in the form of upfront infrastructured assistance. So the Tata Housing Development (THDC) would enter into an agreement with the WBIDC to form a joint venture company. Five hundred acres of land belonging to Bhangore Rajarhat Development Authority (BRADA) would be given at a concessional rate to the THDC+WBIDC combine. And 50 acres of high-value land of New Town Rajarhat should also be given to that combine. The letter clearly mentioned 20 acres should be given for commercial purpose and 30 acres for residential purpose at rates which were half the prevailing rates. The letter went on to state that the profit generated by the WBIDC would be used by it "to meet its commitment of infrastructure assistance to the TML project without having resort to budgetary support". The term "infrastructural support" was deliberately used to hide the real intention of giving subsidy to the TML. This directive of the C and I Department violated several laws apart from being ethically unsupportable. But we are not going into it here. In one stroke, HIDCO suffered a loss of Rs 60 crores for 20 acres of commercial land and a loss of Rs 75 crores for the residential land making a total loss of Rs 135 crores. On the 500 acres of BRADA land, one could make some conjecture in the absence of hard facts. Assuming that price of land per cottah was Rs 1 lakh and that BRADA had to sell it at Rs 50,000 to ensure the profitability of the TML, BRADA lost Rs 150 crores straightway. (1 standard acre = 60 Cottah) Two separate companies/authorities had been ordered to suffer loss to ensure profitability of the TML. The whole idea is preposterous apart from being totally illegal and unethical. A future Commission of Inquiry on "La Affaire Nano" would have to untangle the knots within knots of these totally unwholesome and messy transactions to assess the damage and fix responsibility. It was as well that the Tatas have left, otherwise most of these worthy gentlemen would have got themselves further entangled in illegality verging on corruption that they might have resulted in spending their residual tenure of life in some State Correctional Homes. Incidentally, with due diligence audit followed by a Commission of Inquiry, the possibility of their short-term stay in these Homes is not beyond the realm of possibility. It would be good if they improved the living conditions of these Homes when they were still in service. Now let us get back to the point. The provisional exit bill of Tatas would be: (i) Rs 200 crores (LA cost) + (ii) Rs 76.56 lakhs (cost of wall) + (iii) Rs 46.66 crores (police protection) + (iv) Rs 135 + Rs 150 = Rs 285 crores (subsidised land transferred from HIDCO + BRADA) = Rs 532.18 crores (excluding all indirect and invisible costs) = Rs 532.18 crores (excluding all indirect and invisible costs). The final bill would be computed only after the CAG's audit. II This episode cannot be ended unless some tit-bits of the parleys that took place on September 5-6, 2008 at the Council Chamber of Raj Bhavan, Kolkata, are recorded and made public. Since the GOWB unilaterally and unethically repudiated the agreement it entered into with the Opposition, the writer has no moral compunction now to mention some of the inner stories. In the beginning the Facilitator set the ground rules. There should be no personal attacks. The attempt should be to find an amicable solution of the Singur impasse for the benefit of the "unwilling farmers", agriculture, industry and the general well-being of the people of West Bengal. It must be admitted that both sides adhered to the ground rules and carried on the discussions in a civilised and polite manner. The discussion centred on the amount of land that could be made available within the project area for resettlement of the "unwilling land losers" on a land-for-land basis. Incidentally the "land-for-land" principle of R&R has been recognised in the National Rehabilitation and Resettlement Policy, October 2007. The Leader of the Opposition made it clear initially that, though debatable, his side would not discuss the merit or otherwise of letting out of 643 acres (approx.) for the mother plant of the TML. It was a major concession and it created immediately an amicable ambience for negotiations. Thus discussions centred on the residual 350 acres (approx.). The government side pointed out that this area 294 acres has been set apart for ancillary units. After an hour of discussions it was found that the matter was not progressing. It was going round and round. At this stage the Commerce and Industries Minister suddenly offered 40 acres of land in the project area for non-agricultural avocations on the basis of five per cent of the land cost per land losers. He also introduced the concept of R&R "in and around" the project area. With 40 acres already declared in favour of the land losers, there was an attempt to find out how much more land could be made available from the vacant but not yet utilised land in the project area, particularly, from the land earmarked for the ancillary units. Whatever proposal came from anywhere the stock reply of the Commerce and Industries Minister was: "The Tatas will not agree." It was like the repetitive refrain of a song in a cracked voice of a scratched HMV 78 RPM paraffin record. I counted this phrase 11 times before I gave up in disgust. The Facilitator, a suave, charming and elegant gentleman, did not show any sign of displeasure, but very sweetly he asked the Commerce and Industries Minister "who had acquired the land". The reply was: it was the government. Then there was a further query that if the GOWB had acquired land under the LA Act forcibly, should not it have some view as to how the land should be utilised by the ancillary units? Did anyone ascertain the real requirement of each unit? To that the scratched record croaked: "The Tatas will not agree." Then the Facilitator sought the permission of the Commerce and Industries Minister to ask a few questions to the MD of the WBIDC. The Minister promptly agreed. The Facilitator then asked the MD who had selected the ancillary units. The reply was-the Tatas. Then he enquired as to who had decided how much land one unit would require. The reply was-the Tatas. Thereafter, he wanted to know who decided where would that parcel of land be located. The answer was-the Tatas. Getting, perhaps, a bit perplexed, though not showing any sign of it, he politely asked to whom did the land belong. The reply was-the WBIDC. To this he further queried: "In that case should not the WBIDC have some say regarding areas to be allotted and their location?" This time the Minister replied: "The Tatas will not agree." The MD supplemented the answer by adding that the WBIDC did not have the technical competence to assess the requirement and, therefore, it depended entirely on the Tatas. Never in my service career of more than three-and-a-half decades both in the State and at the Centre had I seen such shameful subservience of a government to a business house. One felt ashamed to be in the same company. It is time to relate an anecdote about Dr B.C. Roy. In 1951 he received a proposal from Morris Motor Co. of England for technical collaboration with an Indian entrepreneur for the manufacture of Morris cars in India. After studying the proposal, one day he told his personal staff: "Call him (Oke dako)." Totally confused his personal staff left his chamber not knowing whom to call. Then it occurred to someone that it could be G.D.Birla who had sought an appointment earlier. So they rang up Birla and fixed the appointment at 3 pm on the same day. Birla arrived at the appointed hour. Dr Roy was informed. He told his staff "Request him wait for a while (Oke boshte balo)." After a while Birla went in and stayed with Dr Roy for almost an hour. That was the beginning of the Hindustan Motors at Konnagar, the first motor car factory in Asia after the WW-II. The Chief Minister of Bengal did not kow-tow to any business tycoon to locate an industrial unit in the State. III Now what happens after the exit of Ratan Tata from West Bengal. Firstly, to the best of our knowledge on October 4, 2008, the earth went round its own axis at its usual speed of 24 hours per round. Further, the sun rose on that day in East and went down in the west as usual. There was no media report of heaven having fallen or the earth cracking up. The general populace went on their business in the usual manner, so much so that the "bandh" called by the CPI-M collapsed much before time. Life continues in West Bengal in its normal pace and stride since October 03, 2008. Second, since an area of more or less 643 acres was let out to the TML for setting up a car factory, now that they have decided to go, a notice has to be given for the cancellation of the lease. Similar notices have to be given to all the ancillary units because they were captive to the TML Third, it appeared from the media reports that about 200 to 250 acres of land where heavy construction had already taken place, agriculture would not be possible without enormous capital cost to restore its original fertility. Hence that area could be kept reserved for a future motor car factory. In fact advice of a reputed consultant should be obtained to ascertain how much land would be required to set up a manufacturing facility of 500,000 small and medium cars per year. On the basis of his assessment an area of, say, 350 or 400 or 450 acres of land could be set apart for the future factory. This should include the built up area of the TML. Fourth, instead of any sweet-heart agreement with any crony capitalist there should be world-wide advertisement for Global Expression of Interest for setting up of small/medium car factory in Singur. The government should openly advertise what benefits and/or facilities it would offer. Respondents should be requested to indicate what terms and conditions they would offer for the well being of the land losers and for the State in general. After appropriate technical and financial assessement the party whose offer would be best should be selected to set up the manufacturing unit. The agreement should be open and transparent and there should be no secret annexures as in the case with the TML. Fifth, the rest of land should be returned to the land losers. The Commerce and Industries Minister had been repeating like an untrained parrot that land once acquired cannot be returned. This is not correct. There are various processes of restoring the land. There is Section 21 of the General Clauses Act 1897. Its heading reads as follows: "Power to issue includes power to add, to amend, vary, or rescind notification, order, rules or bye-laws." Under this section lands to be returned could be denotified. If one wanted to stay within the four corners of the Supreme Court judgement in the Bhaskaran Pillai case (1997- 5 SCC.432), the surplus land should be handed over to the Singur Panchayat Samity for "planned development or improvement of existing village sites". Five mauzas have been devastated by reckless land acquisition proceedings. These villages should be developed in a planned manner as provided for under section 3(f)(I) and (v) of the LA Act, 1894. Land losers should be initially given a 999-year lease. In due course, a local amendment should be made in the LA Act, on the lines of the Tamil Nadu Amendment to return land to the original owners. It may have to wait for the change of government. The CPI-M requires to be cautioned that it would be totally illegal to go on a fishing expedition to find out a project which could fit into the definition of "public purpose" to utilise this land. The acquired land has to be used primarily for the purpose for which it was initially acquired. It is said that "there comes a time in the history of any State when its hypocrisy must be exposed and its crimes against God and man must be proclaimed and denounced". It was time we did it in West Bengal. IV It is a polite submission to Mr Tata. Please do not misunderstand us. We are not begging you to foot the bill. We are not putting pressure on you to pay the bill either. We would only like to remind you of a common saying: "A gentleman always settles his bill before he leaves." _______________________________________________ From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 14:08:08 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:08:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kasab brought from Nepal by Indian forces? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812172353i774ca638ld199e10af1e72437@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70812172353i774ca638ld199e10af1e72437@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan I simply forwarded a news item - that doesn't mean I believe in a conspiracy theory, or I agree with what Antulay says. And what has being Indian got to do with raising a doubt about something. This does not mean that one is anti-India or anything. Does raising your doubt or voice about something that doesn't make sense to you, makes you anti-India? In this country so many people such as tribals, dalits and woman (not just Muslims) are being subjected to persecution and prejudice by the state forces, police, army and media. If someone raises a voice or doubt, does that become anti-India? Today everyone is saying that our politicians are corrupt and they are the ones who have brought us to this state of affairs. And then we believe exactly what the politicians and the state machinery tells us as TRUTH. Don't you think truths can also be created. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Something is verry common to Fatimas and Antulays of this > world............And then they say we are very much Indian..... > > On 12/16/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: >> >> Sorry, I don't want to promote any conspiracy theories, but this one >> sounded too interesting: >> --- >> >> Kasab was arrested by Indian agencies in Kathmandu 2 years ago >> >> 16 Dec 2008, 0814 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES >> >> Adding a twist to the conspiracy theories in Pakistan's media, a >> lawyer C M Farooque has claimed that the surviving Mumbai attack >> accused Ajmal Kasab was arrested in Kathmandu in 2006 by Indian >> agencies with the help of Nepalese forces, media reported from >> Rawalpindi on Monday. >> >> ''C M Farooque, Advocate, said the Nepalese forces arrested almost 200 >> people including Kasab before 2006 and his application in this regard >> was lying pending in the Nepalese supreme court in which Nepalese >> forces and Indian High Commission were made respondents,'' said the >> report . >> >> It added that the advocate had claimed he wrote letters to Pakistan >> and Indian governments and addressed a press conference in Nepal on >> the issue . The report further said that Kasab's parents had contacted >> Farooque's NGO for help. >> >> It concluded, '' The people arrested in Nepal had gone there on legal >> visa for business but Indian agencies were in the habit of capturing >> Pakistanis from Nepal and afterwards implicated them in the Mumbailike >> incidents to malign Pakistan .'' In the meantime, sabrerattling >> ratcheted up in Pakistan's media, both English and Urdu, following >> reports of 'incursions ' by IAF jets. >> >> Although India denied any such incident, and Pakistan's political >> leadership played it down, several newspaper editorials in Pakistani >> papers believe otherwise, and ticked off the Pakistan government for >> its soft attitude. >> >> The Peshawar-based Frontier Post said in a sharp editorial , '' When >> the Indian fighter planes intruded into our territory the same day by >> at least four kilometres in our two sectors located far apart, this >> cannot be believed to be inadvertent trespassing.'' >> >> It went on to warn '' if the Pakistan leadership keeps acting as the >> apologist of this patently provocative Indian intrusion, it is only >> shooting itself in the foot''. >> >> The tone was censorial in The Nation's editorial as well. '' Aerial >> incursions could have been a right time for Islamabad to mount a >> diplomatic offensive and raise the issue of these violations at the UN >> to ward off any future military adventurism by India,'' said the >> daily. >> >> The News, too, suggested that the alleged incursions were no >> 'mistake'. '' Both New Delhi and Islamabad have put the incident down >> to a 'mistake' , this sounds unconvincing. The fact that the >> incursions happened within 24 hours in two separate sectors makes the >> official explanations seem still less likely . It is thought the >> Indians may have been attempting to test readiness,'' said its >> editorial. >> >> Pakistan's leading Urdu daily , Jang, lashed out at India for >> aggravating the strained Indo-Pak relationship. Its editorial said >> that India has dangerous intentions and Pakistan should be prepared to >> meet any challenge . >> >> Reminding India that the 17 million Pakistanis have a right to defend >> their sovereignty , the editorial said that Pakistan could go to any >> extent to protect itself. An opinion piece by economist Kaiser Bengali >> in the Dawn provided a argument against state patronage of terrorists >> . >> >> ''Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organizational , financial >> and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the >> jihadis. Clearly , such an infrastructure cannot operate without >> tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state >> agencies.'' >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 14:40:02 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:10:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kasab brought from Nepal by Indian forces? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <924672.76946.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Pawan   I agree with Fatima. Your comment clubbing her with Antulay was totally unwarranted.   At the least, I hope your clubbing them together had nothing to do with both being (presumably) Muslims. If that was at the back of your mind then I consider such generalisations of Muslims questioning their loyalty towards India as the handiwork of  Anti-India propagation that seeks to bring about divides amonst the citizens of India.   What else can one understand from your comment " And then they say we are very much Indian". Who is the "They"?   Fatima simply posted a News Item. It defenitely was interesting. It was from Times News Network. The report itself said that it was a additional "twist to the conspiracy theories in Pakistan's media,"   There is nothing very devastating or Anti-India even about the questions raised by Antulay.    The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into the involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he was eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but such suspicions are not illogical.   Kshmendra  --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: From: Fatima फ़ातिमा Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Kasab brought from Nepal by Indian forces? To: "Pawan Durani" Cc: "Reader-list" Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 2:08 PM Dear Pawan I simply forwarded a news item - that doesn't mean I believe in a conspiracy theory, or I agree with what Antulay says. And what has being Indian got to do with raising a doubt about something. This does not mean that one is anti-India or anything. Does raising your doubt or voice about something that doesn't make sense to you, makes you anti-India? In this country so many people such as tribals, dalits and woman (not just Muslims) are being subjected to persecution and prejudice by the state forces, police, army and media. If someone raises a voice or doubt, does that become anti-India? Today everyone is saying that our politicians are corrupt and they are the ones who have brought us to this state of affairs. And then we believe exactly what the politicians and the state machinery tells us as TRUTH. Don't you think truths can also be created. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Something is verry common to Fatimas and Antulays of this > world............And then they say we are very much Indian..... > > On 12/16/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: >> >> Sorry, I don't want to promote any conspiracy theories, but this one >> sounded too interesting: >> --- >> >> Kasab was arrested by Indian agencies in Kathmandu 2 years ago >> >> 16 Dec 2008, 0814 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES >> >> Adding a twist to the conspiracy theories in Pakistan's media, a >> lawyer C M Farooque has claimed that the surviving Mumbai attack >> accused Ajmal Kasab was arrested in Kathmandu in 2006 by Indian >> agencies with the help of Nepalese forces, media reported from >> Rawalpindi on Monday. >> >> ''C M Farooque, Advocate, said the Nepalese forces arrested almost 200 >> people including Kasab before 2006 and his application in this regard >> was lying pending in the Nepalese supreme court in which Nepalese >> forces and Indian High Commission were made respondents,'' said the >> report . >> >> It added that the advocate had claimed he wrote letters to Pakistan >> and Indian governments and addressed a press conference in Nepal on >> the issue . The report further said that Kasab's parents had contacted >> Farooque's NGO for help. >> >> It concluded, '' The people arrested in Nepal had gone there on legal >> visa for business but Indian agencies were in the habit of capturing >> Pakistanis from Nepal and afterwards implicated them in the Mumbailike >> incidents to malign Pakistan .'' In the meantime, sabrerattling >> ratcheted up in Pakistan's media, both English and Urdu, following >> reports of 'incursions ' by IAF jets. >> >> Although India denied any such incident, and Pakistan's political >> leadership played it down, several newspaper editorials in Pakistani >> papers believe otherwise, and ticked off the Pakistan government for >> its soft attitude. >> >> The Peshawar-based Frontier Post said in a sharp editorial , '' When >> the Indian fighter planes intruded into our territory the same day by >> at least four kilometres in our two sectors located far apart, this >> cannot be believed to be inadvertent trespassing.'' >> >> It went on to warn '' if the Pakistan leadership keeps acting as the >> apologist of this patently provocative Indian intrusion, it is only >> shooting itself in the foot''. >> >> The tone was censorial in The Nation's editorial as well. '' Aerial >> incursions could have been a right time for Islamabad to mount a >> diplomatic offensive and raise the issue of these violations at the UN >> to ward off any future military adventurism by India,'' said the >> daily. >> >> The News, too, suggested that the alleged incursions were no >> 'mistake'. '' Both New Delhi and Islamabad have put the incident down >> to a 'mistake' , this sounds unconvincing. The fact that the >> incursions happened within 24 hours in two separate sectors makes the >> official explanations seem still less likely . It is thought the >> Indians may have been attempting to test readiness,'' said its >> editorial. >> >> Pakistan's leading Urdu daily , Jang, lashed out at India for >> aggravating the strained Indo-Pak relationship. Its editorial said >> that India has dangerous intentions and Pakistan should be prepared to >> meet any challenge . >> >> Reminding India that the 17 million Pakistanis have a right to defend >> their sovereignty , the editorial said that Pakistan could go to any >> extent to protect itself. An opinion piece by economist Kaiser Bengali >> in the Dawn provided a argument against state patronage of terrorists >> . >> >> ''Clearly, there is an infrastructure with organizational , financial >> and operational resources to recruit, indoctrinate and train the >> jihadis. Clearly , such an infrastructure cannot operate without >> tolerance or support from powerful elements aligned to state >> agencies.'' >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 14:47:45 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:47:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dawood directly involved in Mumbai attack: Russian intel Message-ID: Dawood directly involved in Mumbai attack: Russia intelligence 18 Dec 2008, 1346 hrs IST, Times Now NEW DELHI: The Russian government has issued a statement saying that it believes that underworld don Dawood Ibrahim was directly involved in the Mumbai terror attacks and his network was used by the terrorists to carry out the multiple attacks. Moscow, which has been sharing intelligence with India, further believes that Dawood's drug network, which runs through Afghanistan, was used to finance the terror attack. Russia has also gone public with its intelligence inputs that point to the involvement of Dawood Ibrahim, who is believed to be operating his vast network from Karachi, in the Mumbai terror attacks. "The gathered inputs testify that regional drug baron Dawood Ibrahim had provided his logistics network for preparing and carrying out the Mumbai terror attacks," Russia's federal anti-narcotics service director Viktor Ivanov said in an interview to Russian government daily Rossiskaya Gazeta. He had further said that the Mumbai attacks were a 'burning example' of how the illegal drug trafficking network was used for carrying out terror activities. Special representative of the Russian president for international co-operation in the fight against terrorism, Anatoly Safonov, who led the Russian delegation at the meeting of the joint working group, has said that the drug network, which finances the terror network, was a joint problem for India and Russia and that the two countries co-operate more closely in the area. This was reflected in a joint statement released after the talks. The two sides have agreed to work together to track terror funds. "The two sides noted that curbing financing of terrorism is a key component of the counter-terrorism strategy and agreed to strengthen bilateral interaction in this field," the joint statement said. Safonov has said that Russia is willing to work with India to "inject new dynamism" in the convention that has been held up over the definition of terrorism. The Russian side had also offered to explain to Indian officials the steps taken by Russia after the Beslan school terrorist attack. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 14:57:31 2008 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:57:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CHRISTMAS FOR ORISSA CAMPAIGN Message-ID: <35f96d470812180127w5e6ca50w6b7071c249fc13ce@mail.gmail.com> CHRISTMAS FOR ORISSA CAMPAIGN Pray For Peace, Fight For Justice, Save Christmas In Orissa http://orissaconcerns.net/content/2008/12/christmas-orissa-campaign Dear Friends, The Christmas of 2008, traditionally an occasion for joy and hope, threatens to be a dark and fearful day for the people of Orissa. In an extremely provocative step, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) – responsible for horrific violence against the state's Christians over the past one year - has threatened to call an Orissa bandh on 25 December 2008. There is great apprehension that the VHP bandh will become another excuse to unleash more pogroms against the already battered Christian community and kill both the flesh and spirit of this year's Christmas in Orissa. In fact it was on Christmas Day last year that the attacks, organised by the VHP, Bajrang Dal, RSS and other Hindutva extremist groups, were launched. In renewed violence since late August this year over 60 people have been killed, several women including nuns raped, over 4,400 houses and 151 churches destroyed and more than 18,000 people injured. Even as we write this there are over 50,000 people homeless and living in the most atrocious conditions unable to return to their homes due to fear and lack of state protection. We sincerely appeal to people of all religions in Orissa, the rest of India and indeed all over the world to join the Christmas for Orissa Campaign to: * Defeat the politics of hate indulged in by extremist organisations; * Prevent the recurrence of further violence in the state; * Preserve the spirit of Christmas; and * Prevail upon the Indian and Orissa governments to protect the lives and livelihood of innocent citizens. This Christmas for Orissa Campaign is part of already ongoing efforts in Orissa and elsewhere with similar objectives and involves the following suggested activities: * Make peace and justice in Orissa the theme of this year's Christmas all over the world; * Organise special Christmas for Orissa vigils/prayers outside Indian embassies and VHP/RSS offices all over the world; * Organise peaceful vigils/prayers outside VHP/RSS offices all over India; * Send letters/Christmas greeting cards to Indian government officials and VHP/RSS/BJP leaders appealing for peace and justice in Orissa More suggested activities will be posted on the Christmas for Orissa Campaign website http://orissaconcerns.net and http://blog.orissaconcerns.net soon and all those interested in joining or contributing to the campaign are requested to contact: christmasfororissa at gmail.com and www.orissaconcerns.net Anivar Aravind http://anivar.movingrepublic.org From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 15:17:16 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:47:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22Twelve_steps_to_shock-and-awe_Pakistan?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_economy=27-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DNA?= Message-ID: <294720.71490.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> A column in the newspaper DNA (of 9th Dec '08)  by Prof R Vaidyanathan has been coming up often during discussions in Pakistani Media on the current India-Pakistan equations. It is being cited as defenitive proof in support of the viewpoint that India seeks to destroy Pakistan. Not without due reason.   Vaidyanathan is no "airra gairaa nathu khairaa" (just any Indian non-entity). He is a Professor of Finance and Control at the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) - Bangalore. Not a sloganeering Politician (let us wage war on Pakistan) or a dimwit Simi Garewal (let us carpet bomb Pakistan). Not an idiot. Or, is he not?   Those who (ostensibly out of love for India)  speak about the (physical or economic) destruction of Pakistan, do not seem to realise that any disintegration of Pakistan is more than likely going to increase the threats to the security of India.   Kshmendra   "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan’s economy " Prof R Vaidyanathan Tuesday, December 09   (Economic destabilisation of the Terror Central is imperative for rooting out terror.) I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article last week (December 2) slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have sought concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central. The terror attack on world citizens at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is imperative that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan. A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone India. Army controls the country and owns its economy. A significant portion of its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See Military Inc Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily say that Pakistan Economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous. Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable Pakistan means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue organisation ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan’s economy. Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man - he did not trust his own investigators to probe his wife’s assassination - he wanted Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside Pakistan. Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful idiots (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon over such events. India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of Pakistan: n Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from India. Hurt Pakistan on the export front. Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. Tell Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects will be in jeopardy. Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government organs. Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms exporters to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives. Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is real politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that international economics is politics by another name. Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. Or just drop their notes in remote areas. Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them or at least do not vote for their loans. Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi Stock market - it is already in shambles.  Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by burning D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT department when nobody comes to bid for it. n Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money laundering, etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should coordinate with RAW. Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports — many will jump to get our passport — since they will not be stopped at international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not give passports to all — make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army and ISI controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and self-confidence. Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international terrorism). In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if there are elements helping them here then they also should be punished-irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted out. Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras? It is going to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to our existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the ‘Gujral Doctrine’ by that mumbling Prime Minister about treating younger brothers with equanimity. The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show. He, according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human intelligent assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of Indian citizens in the last few years. Such is our strategic thinking in this complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the elite don’t think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in our actions rather than the other way. Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of taking care of its own interests.     The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be reached at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal.         From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 15:36:33 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:06:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22It=E2=80=99s_time_Pakistan_got_slammed?= =?utf-8?q?=2E=2E=22-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DNA?= Message-ID: <432899.30710.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> More from Prof Vaidyanathan. His earlier column of 2nd Dec in DNA.   This one is well reasoned. Makes good points   Kshmendra     "It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists"   Prof R Vaidyanathan   (Army-controlled as it is, the country will not mend its ways unless forced to)   The three-day-long terror strike on the country’s financial capital was devastating in terms of its reach and impact. It has left Corporate India badly shaken and the elites numb.   It is no more about bombs being thrown at bus stations or trains getting blasted. It is no longer about only Nagpada or Govindpuri residents losing limbs and lives. Terror has now climbed up the value chain. As the new age entrepreneur Kiran Majumdar Shaw told a Bangalore newspaper, “So far, the terrorists targeted common people. Now the society’s elite, the business sector, is the target. What happened in Mumbai is a loud wake-up call for all of us to do something to protect ourselves.” Corporate India did not bat an eyelid when Mumbai train blasts took place, or when Sarojini Nagar was burning on a Diwali day, or Hyderabad was weeping two years before. But today, every corporate captain is angry, and so are the celebrities who people Page 3 of newspapers, due largely because the attacks on the three top hotels were directly aimed at those who frequent these places, for business or pleasure (contrast this with the scant coverage of the carnage at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, for example, where commoners were involved). All the same, the bleeding-heart liberals would be back to their routine ways after a few days. They will lament that the captured terrorist has not been given his favourite food and not allowed to watch TV or use his cell phone; they will say his human rights are violated. Just wait for the chorus. Of course, this time it will be between Page 3 and the jholawalas (activists) and that should be an interesting match to watch, but that’s another story. In the last ten years, not a single session of any seminar sponsored by the CII or Ficci or business/ general journals has focused on terrorism. When this writer once broached the importance of talking about it, a senior business captain said it is for the government to deal with. Many of those seminars gave importance to Musharraf and now Zardari, as if they are going to provide any solution when they are a part of the problem. Now, at least, terrorism is being realised as a problem facing the country. Let us summarise what the real situation is and corporate sector should do if we are serious in fighting terrorism on our soil. 1. Recognise and treat Pakistan as a terrorist state. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme is to destroy India. This needs to be internalised by every business baron including the owners of media. 2. Now, the elite of Pakistan are more angry, since India is growing at 7% and they are given CCC rating and stiff conditions for borrowing from IMF. Many an academic from that country, who I have met in global conferences, has openly lamented that nobody talks about Indo-Pak relations anymore, but only Indo-China or Indo-American, etc. They want to be equal but they are in deep abyss 3. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by the Fauji Foundation (FF), Army Welfare Trust (AWT) Bahria Foundation (BF), Shaheen Foundation (SF) all owned by different wings of armed forces (See paper presented by Dr Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha on “Power, Perks, Prestige And Privileges: Military’s Economic Activities In Pakistan” in The International Conference on Soldiers in Business—Military as an Economic Actor; Jakarta, October 17-19, 2000). Hence, do not try to think of Pakistan without its army, irrespective of who rules that country temporarily and nominally. At least 70% of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the army and related groups. 4. There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care. All three have been proved wrong hundreds of times, but they are also opinion makers. Shun them, avoid them and ridicule them. 5. We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Be it art, music, economy, commerce, or other hand-holding activities. That army-controlled state has to realise that it has done enough damage to global civilisation. More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis. 6. We should recognise that it is our war and nobody in the world is going to wage it on our behalf. What the Americans are thinking, or what the Britishers are going to do will not help. A determined country should have a sense of dignity and independence to fight its war. We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that “you have not produced any proof.” Government of India should perhaps create a museum of proof between India Gate and North block. I am amazed that a country of billions is required even to furnish proof. If one-sixth of humanity says that the terrorist state of Pakistan is the root cause of global terrorism - it is factual. Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits. 7. We should realise that a united Pakistan is a grave threat to the existence of India. Hence, we should do everything possible to break up Pakistan into several units. This is required to be done not only for our interest, but for world peace. 8. We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that “Pakistan is also a victim of terror.” That is a grave error and it will haunt us for decades. They are perpetrators and our government is in deep illusion if it tries to distinguish between organs of power in that country thinking it is like India. There is only one organ, namely its army (with ISI as a sub-organ) in that country, which owns and controls at least 70% of the GDP in that country. If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practising it. Always call it the ‘terrorist state of Pakistan’ and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different. If corporate India, including electronic/ print media, starts practising this, we should see results in a few years. Are the elites listening?     The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal.    http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210789   From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 17:24:28 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:24:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism Message-ID: <6353c690812180354x28895510n4c0f6975b8a6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> *Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism* New York (PTI): Terming Pakistan as the centre of world terrorism, noted author Salman Rushdie has said the fact is that terrorist organisations are all based in that country. Rushdie also slammed Pakistan for its "cynical denial" that the terrorists involved in Mumbai strikes were not its nationals. "The fact is the world's terrorist organisations are all based in Pakistan. Taliban are there, al-Qaeda are there, LeT is there. They are all there with the active support of the Pakistani intelligence," he said while participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society. Referring to the remarks of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown that three-fourths of terror plots had links to Pakistan and al-Qaeda, the India-born novelist said Islamabad "can't go on pretending that there is no evidence. That's all garbage". He said that "when the President of Pakistan pretends that there is no evidence against somebody, he is also complicit in that. It is time to say to Pakistan this has to stop. You can't be a member of the free group of nations, if you are among the world's sponsor of terrorism, which is what now they have been". The Mumbai strikes, he said, were marked by brutality by the attackers and incompetence of government and security agencies in responding to them. Expressing skepticism that Islamabad would dismantle the terror groups, the panelists, during the discussion, said the world community should send a clear message to Pakistan that terrorists are becoming a liability to that country and it is in its own interest to dismantle them. The U.S. administration too came in for strong criticism for considering former President Pervez Musharraf an "ally in fighting terrorism" and giving billions of dollars to him without any condition that the money should be used to fight terrorists. The panelists recalled that Musharraf was responsible for aiding Lashkar-e-Taeba to fight in Kashmir during his years in the army and Rushdie said he put up a western face to the Westerns but was mullah to extremists. Rushdie strongly attacked Booker Prize winner Arundhiti Roy for linking the Mumbai terrorist attacks to Kashmir, Gujarat riots and demolition of Babri Masjid. Besides Rushdie, the panelists included former Bernard Schwartz Fellow Mira Kamdar, who had lost her cousin and her cousin's husband in the Mumbai attacks, and author of *Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found* Suketu Mehta. The terrorists, the participants said, are driven by a different philosophy and ideology and want to take the world back into the medieval ages. But they agreed that terrorists failed in their apparent bid to split Hindus and Muslims and ignite communal riots as both the communities condemned the attacks and vowed to unitedly fight terror. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 19:03:30 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:33:30 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Elections & Minority Vote Message-ID: Three quick op-eds on the minority vote in the coming national elections, after two years of delay under military "soft coup" Defenders of Minority Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/16/minority-vote/ Citizens, Not Enemies http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/12/vpa/ Missing Pahari Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/02/cht-missing-pahari-vote/ And a manifesto we all signed... Rights Manifesto http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/14/rights-manifesto/ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 20:49:55 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:49:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=22Twelve_steps_to_shock-and-awe_P?= =?windows-1252?q?akistan=92s_economy=27-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DN?= =?windows-1252?q?A?= In-Reply-To: <294720.71490.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <294720.71490.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What Vaidyanathan means is that if you want to eradicate cancer, kill the cancer patient. Or rather kill all cancer patients so that others don't get infected. I know people will take my statement as an anti-India statement, but to me it looks like if you have cancer in your left arm, then you cut that off to save the body. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > A column in the newspaper DNA (of 9th Dec '08) by Prof R Vaidyanathan has been coming up often during discussions in Pakistani Media on the current India-Pakistan equations. It is being cited as defenitive proof in support of the viewpoint that India seeks to destroy Pakistan. Not without due reason. > > Vaidyanathan is no "airra gairaa nathu khairaa" (just any Indian non-entity). He is a Professor of Finance and Control at the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) - Bangalore. Not a sloganeering Politician (let us wage war on Pakistan) or a dimwit Simi Garewal (let us carpet bomb Pakistan). Not an idiot. Or, is he not? > > Those who (ostensibly out of love for India) speak about the (physical or economic) destruction of Pakistan, do not seem to realise that any disintegration of Pakistan is more than likely going to increase the threats to the security of India. > > Kshmendra > > "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's economy " > Prof R Vaidyanathan > Tuesday, December 09 > > (Economic destabilisation of the Terror Central is imperative for rooting out terror.) > > I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article last week (December 2) slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have sought concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central. The terror attack on world citizens at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is imperative that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan. > > > A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone India. Army controls the country and owns its economy. A significant portion of its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See Military Inc Inside Pakistan's Military Economy by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily say that Pakistan Economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous. > > > Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable Pakistan means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue organisation ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan's economy. > > > Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man - he did not trust his own investigators to probe his wife's assassination - he wanted Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside Pakistan. Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful idiots (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon over such events. > > > India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of Pakistan: > n Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from India. Hurt Pakistan on the export front. > > > Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. Tell Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects will be in jeopardy. > > > Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government organs. Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms exporters to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives. > > > Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is real politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that international economics is politics by another name. > > > Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. Or just drop their notes in remote areas. > > > Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them or at least do not vote for their loans. > > > Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi Stock market - it is already in shambles. > > > Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by burning D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT department when nobody comes to bid for it. > n Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money laundering, etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should coordinate with RAW. > > > Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports — many will jump to get our passport — since they will not be stopped at international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not give passports to all — make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army and ISI controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and self-confidence. > > > Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international terrorism). > > > In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if there are elements helping them here then they also should be punished-irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted out. > > > Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras? It is going to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to our existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the 'Gujral Doctrine' by that mumbling Prime Minister about treating younger brothers with equanimity. > > > The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show. He, according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human intelligent assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of Indian citizens in the last few years. Such is our strategic thinking in this complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the elite don't think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in our actions rather than the other way. > > > Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of taking care of its own interests. > > > The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be reached at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 21:05:15 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:35:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22Twelve_steps_to_shock-and-awe_Pakistan?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_economy=27-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DNA?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <831577.85819.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   To carry forward your analogy. It would be more like Vaidyanathan advocating "Economic Chemotherapy".   The question however is whether that would kill the "bad cells" or the "good cells". Which ones would survive; which ones would mutate; which ones would gallop-multiply.   Excising out  all 'cancer cells' is possible only when they are localised and can be identified as being so. Once a cancer reaches the "lymph nodes" it courses through the body. Even if you cut out the 'primary' site, it would rear up in many a 'secondary' locations.   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan’s economy'- Prof R Vaidyanathan in DNA To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 8:49 PM What Vaidyanathan means is that if you want to eradicate cancer, kill the cancer patient. Or rather kill all cancer patients so that others don't get infected. I know people will take my statement as an anti-India statement, but to me it looks like if you have cancer in your left arm, then you cut that off to save the body. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > A column in the newspaper DNA (of 9th Dec '08) by Prof R Vaidyanathan has been coming up often during discussions in Pakistani Media on the current India-Pakistan equations. It is being cited as defenitive proof in support of the viewpoint that India seeks to destroy Pakistan. Not without due reason. > > Vaidyanathan is no "airra gairaa nathu khairaa" (just any Indian non-entity). He is a Professor of Finance and Control at the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) - Bangalore. Not a sloganeering Politician (let us wage war on Pakistan) or a dimwit Simi Garewal (let us carpet bomb Pakistan). Not an idiot. Or, is he not? > > Those who (ostensibly out of love for India) speak about the (physical or economic) destruction of Pakistan, do not seem to realise that any disintegration of Pakistan is more than likely going to increase the threats to the security of India. > > Kshmendra > > "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's economy " > Prof R Vaidyanathan > Tuesday, December 09 > > (Economic destabilisation of the Terror Central is imperative for rooting out terror.) > > I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article last week (December 2) slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have sought concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central. The terror attack on world citizens at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is imperative that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan. > > > A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone India. Army controls the country and owns its economy. A significant portion of its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See Military Inc Inside Pakistan's Military Economy by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily say that Pakistan Economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous. > > > Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable Pakistan means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue organisation ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan's economy. > > > Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man - he did not trust his own investigators to probe his wife's assassination - he wanted Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside Pakistan. Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful idiots (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon over such events. > > > India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of Pakistan: > n Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from India. Hurt Pakistan on the export front. > > > Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. Tell Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects will be in jeopardy. > > > Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government organs. Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms exporters to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives. > > > Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is real politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that international economics is politics by another name. > > > Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. Or just drop their notes in remote areas. > > > Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them or at least do not vote for their loans. > > > Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi Stock market - it is already in shambles. > > > Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by burning D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT department when nobody comes to bid for it. > n Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money laundering, etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should coordinate with RAW. > > > Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports — many will jump to get our passport — since they will not be stopped at international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not give passports to all — make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army and ISI controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and self-confidence. > > > Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international terrorism). > > > In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if there are elements helping them here then they also should be punished-irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted out. > > > Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras? It is going to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to our existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the 'Gujral Doctrine' by that mumbling Prime Minister about treating younger brothers with equanimity. > > > The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show. He, according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human intelligent assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of Indian citizens in the last few years. Such is our strategic thinking in this complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the elite don't think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in our actions rather than the other way. > > > Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of taking care of its own interests. > > > The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be reached at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 22:02:05 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:02:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=22Twelve_steps_to_shock-and-awe_P?= =?windows-1252?q?akistan=92s_economy=27-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DN?= =?windows-1252?q?A?= In-Reply-To: <831577.85819.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <831577.85819.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In that case, there is no need to identify which are cancerous cells. Because I think in society every cell is half cancerous and half healthy. The real cure is to first realize this fact, and then suppress your cancerous half. But that is difficult because we would continue to believe that "we" are fully healthy cells while the "enemy" is fully cancerous, hence needs to be eliminated. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > To carry forward your analogy. It would be more like Vaidyanathan advocating > "Economic Chemotherapy". > > The question however is whether that would kill the "bad cells" or the "good > cells". Which ones would survive; which ones would mutate; which ones would > gallop-multiply. > > Excising out all 'cancer cells' is possible only when they are localised > and can be identified as being so. Once a cancer reaches the "lymph nodes" > it courses through the body. Even if you cut out the 'primary' site, it > would rear up in many a 'secondary' locations. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's > economy'- Prof R Vaidyanathan in DNA > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 8:49 PM > > What Vaidyanathan means is that if you want to eradicate cancer, kill > the cancer patient. Or rather kill all cancer patients so that others > don't get infected. > I know people will take my statement as an anti-India statement, but > to me it looks like if you have cancer in your left arm, then you cut > that off to save the body. > > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> A column in the newspaper DNA (of 9th Dec '08) by Prof R Vaidyanathan > has been coming up often during discussions in Pakistani Media on the > current > India-Pakistan equations. It is being cited as defenitive proof in support > of > the viewpoint that India seeks to destroy Pakistan. Not without due reason. >> >> Vaidyanathan is no "airra gairaa nathu khairaa" (just any Indian > non-entity). He is a Professor of Finance and Control at the Indian > Institute of > Management (IIM) - Bangalore. Not a sloganeering Politician (let us wage war > on > Pakistan) or a dimwit Simi Garewal (let us carpet bomb Pakistan). Not an > idiot. > Or, is he not? >> >> Those who (ostensibly out of love for India) speak about the (physical or > economic) destruction of Pakistan, do not seem to realise that any > disintegration of Pakistan is more than likely going to increase the threats > to > the security of India. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's economy " >> Prof R Vaidyanathan >> Tuesday, December 09 >> >> (Economic destabilisation of the Terror Central is imperative for rooting > out terror.) >> >> I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article > last week (December 2) slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have > sought > concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central. The terror attack on world > citizens > at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is > imperative > that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan. >> >> >> A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone > India. Army controls the country and owns its economy. A significant portion > of > its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See Military Inc Inside > Pakistan's Military Economy by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily > say that Pakistan Economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous. >> >> >> Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. > This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable > Pakistan > means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue > organisation > ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan's > economy. >> >> >> Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man - he did not > trust his own investigators to probe his wife's assassination - he wanted > Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are > satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside > Pakistan. Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful > idiots > (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon > over > such events. >> >> >> India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of > Pakistan: >> n Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets > etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from > India. > Hurt Pakistan on the export front. >> >> >> Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist > them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense > items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. > Tell > Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects > will be in jeopardy. >> >> >> Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human > rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government > organs. > Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms > exporters > to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives. >> >> >> Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, > their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is > real > politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of > emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that > international economics is politics by another name. >> >> >> Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their > country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. > Or > just drop their notes in remote areas. >> >> >> Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them > or at least do not vote for their loans. >> >> >> Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi Stock market - it is > already in shambles. >> >> >> Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both > have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the > eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by > burning > D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT > department > when nobody comes to bid for it. >> n Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in > that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money > laundering, > etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully > integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is > provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should > coordinate > with RAW. >> >> >> Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt > for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their > self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports > — > many will jump to get our passport — since they will not be stopped at > international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not > give > passports to all — make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army and ISI > controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and > self-confidence. >> >> >> Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly > IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international > terrorism). >> >> >> In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic > religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if > there are elements helping them here then they also should be > punished-irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the > idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted > out. >> >> >> Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and > scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras? It is > going > to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to > our > existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to > combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the > 'Gujral Doctrine' by that mumbling Prime Minister about treating younger > brothers with equanimity. >> >> >> The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the > cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show. He, > according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human > intelligent > assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of > Indian citizens in the last few years. Such is our strategic thinking in > this > complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the > elite > don't think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in > our actions rather than the other way. >> >> >> Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of > taking care of its own interests. >> >> >> The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of > Management - Bangalore, and can be reached at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views > are > personal. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > From difusion at medialab-prado.es Thu Dec 18 22:49:44 2008 From: difusion at medialab-prado.es (Difusion Medialab-Prado) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:19:44 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Projects> INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology Message-ID: <494A8630.80004@medialab-prado.es> :: Please spread this call - thanks! :: _* Call for Projects*_ *INTERACTIVOS? Lima'09: Magic and Technology* *International Project Development Workshop *Deadline for entries: February 15, 2009 Call for collaborators: March 6, 2009 Medialab-Prado and the Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (Peru) issue a call for the presentation of projects to be developed within the INTERACTIVOS?' Lima'09: Magic and Technology workshop, to be carried out in Lima from *April 13 through 28, 2009*. The aim is the selection of a maximum of 8 proposals for the development of software pieces and interactive installations that propose a rethinking of the usual scenario in magic tricks. The workshop proposes to explore the use of open hardware and software tools in a collective and interdisciplinary manner in order to create technological prototypes with success in the Media from different perspectives: playful, creative and critical. The call is aimed at artists, magicians, engineers, musicians, programmers, designers, architects, hackers, psychologists, etc. Contact: interactivos (at) medialab-prado.es More information: http://medialab-prado.es/article/interactivos_lima08_magia_y_tecnologia Organizers: Cultural Center of Spain in Lima (AECID) and Medialab-Prado (Madrid City Council) -- Nerea García Garmendia Medialab-Prado Área de Las Artes, Ayuntamiento de Madrid Plaza de las Letras Alameda, 15 28014 Madrid Tfno. +34 914 202 754 difusion at medialab-prado.es www.medialab-prado.es From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 23:45:15 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:45:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism In-Reply-To: <6353c690812180354x28895510n4c0f6975b8a6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690812180354x28895510n4c0f6975b8a6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812181015p31f81997jad596afe83f02a40@mail.gmail.com> Dear Salman Rushdie, You know what, we ( Men ) both Indians and Pakistanis love to piss at a place where everybody pisses, It is just takes one Man to start pissing at a particular place, and it quickly qualifies as a favorite pissing place. This time ( of history ) it just happens to be Pakistan, and we all love to piss at it, and then see it from a distance, and say, - Oh, see this place, it really stinks, what to do now? How easy it has become to hate pakistan these days. anyway, this will go on like that, but, the reality is deeper than all that, i guess, in many ways, White Man's foreign policies towards 'the other' have been terrorizing the world all the time, and will continue, with their white collars intact. Can you really spell out what is ailing our heart, what is the name of the disease that is making all of us sick ? what is that? The west has given it a name : islamic terrorism? and if it is a fact, is there a Doctor in the west ? Alas, you are just one more analyst, amongst millions in this world, who come to this conclusion that Pakistan is the hub of world terrorism. But what about the creative writer inside you, is that also so boring, monochromatic and dull ? what is the hope, the modernity based on western models of devastating the environment? or some humble return to life, I believe, capitalism collapses, the moment consumption of the commodities slows down. We have to devour, buy and create waste more and more to keep this western model of economy going, that is what makes it tick, that is what makes us feel 'we are living', and for that reason alone we can go to any extent, steal the resources of the other, tell them how wars are inevitable, and what not, How strange, they draw and analyze the monster they create themselves. best of wishes to all those who live in the west and keep on analyzing us from a distance love to you and all inder salim On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > *Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism* > > New York (PTI): Terming Pakistan as the centre of world terrorism, noted > author Salman Rushdie has said the fact is that terrorist organisations are > all based in that country. > > Rushdie also slammed Pakistan for its "cynical denial" that the terrorists > involved in Mumbai strikes were not its nationals. > > "The fact is the world's terrorist organisations are all based in Pakistan. > Taliban are there, al-Qaeda are there, LeT is there. They are all there with > the active support of the Pakistani intelligence," he said while > participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society. > > Referring to the remarks of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown that > three-fourths of terror plots had links to Pakistan and al-Qaeda, the > India-born novelist said Islamabad "can't go on pretending that there is no > evidence. That's all garbage". > > He said that "when the President of Pakistan pretends that there is no > evidence against somebody, he is also complicit in that. It is time to say > to Pakistan this has to stop. You can't be a member of the free group of > nations, if you are among the world's sponsor of terrorism, which is what > now they have been". > > The Mumbai strikes, he said, were marked by brutality by the attackers and > incompetence of government and security agencies in responding to them. > > Expressing skepticism that Islamabad would dismantle the terror groups, the > panelists, during the discussion, said the world community should send a > clear message to Pakistan that terrorists are becoming a liability to that > country and it is in its own interest to dismantle them. > > The U.S. administration too came in for strong criticism for considering > former President Pervez Musharraf an "ally in fighting terrorism" and giving > billions of dollars to him without any condition that the money should be > used to fight terrorists. > > The panelists recalled that Musharraf was responsible for aiding > Lashkar-e-Taeba to fight in Kashmir during his years in the army and Rushdie > said he put up a western face to the Westerns but was mullah to extremists. > > Rushdie strongly attacked Booker Prize winner Arundhiti Roy for linking the > Mumbai terrorist attacks to Kashmir, Gujarat riots and demolition of Babri > Masjid. > > Besides Rushdie, the panelists included former Bernard Schwartz Fellow Mira > Kamdar, who had lost her cousin and her cousin's husband in the Mumbai > attacks, and author of *Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found* Suketu Mehta. > > The terrorists, the participants said, are driven by a different philosophy > and ideology and want to take the world back into the medieval ages. > > But they agreed that terrorists failed in their apparent bid to split Hindus > and Muslims and ignite communal riots as both the communities condemned the > attacks and vowed to unitedly fight terror. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 01:24:42 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:54:42 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism References: <6353c690812180354x28895510n4c0f6975b8a6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70812181015p31f81997jad596afe83f02a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7A6754ADF3284FCCAE7A9C51821A7560@tara> Dear Inder. I wonder if you have pissed at some places where everyone else was pissing. To be honest, there are norms about pissing at places too. When the first man started pissing at a place, there was a rationale which came from our collective psyche. If you were to start pissing in Taj, or in CP, or in a class room, inside a temple, mosque, church or a gurdwara; during your protest against death penalty, during protests movements asking for Rushdie's, Taslima Nasreen's, MF Hussein's, George Bush's, Musharraf's, or anybody else's head; not all of us Indian-Pakistani men will start following you in the act of pissing. That kind of pissing is reserved for a secluded, shady, nontransparent place. You might have different ideas but then these are your personal opinions. Rushdie may be overstepping his capacity and authority by analyzing and pissing at Pakistan from a distance, you too are trivializing Indian and Pakistani men by trivializing their desire for pissing. I don't think you should piss on everybody's behalf. Please, let there be polychromatic pissing. Some will go a step ahead. Pissing and shitting might stink, but for those who are involved in shitting and pissing, it gives relief to them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "indersalim" To: Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism > Dear Salman Rushdie, > > You know what, we ( Men ) both Indians and Pakistanis love to piss > at a place where everybody pisses, > > It is just takes one Man to start pissing at a particular place, and > it quickly qualifies as a favorite pissing place. This time ( of > history ) it just happens to be Pakistan, and we all love to piss at > it, and then see it from a distance, and say, - Oh, see this place, > it really stinks, what to do now? > > How easy it has become to hate pakistan these days. > > anyway, this will go on like that, but, the reality is deeper than all > that, > i guess, in many ways, White Man's foreign policies towards 'the > other' have been terrorizing the world all the time, and will > continue, with their white collars intact. > > Can you really spell out what is ailing our heart, what is the name of > the disease that is making all of us sick ? what is that? The west has > given it a name : islamic terrorism? and if it is a fact, is there a > Doctor in the west ? > > Alas, you are just one more analyst, amongst millions in this world, > who come to this conclusion that Pakistan is the hub of world > terrorism. But what about the creative writer inside you, is that also > so boring, monochromatic and dull ? > > what is the hope, the modernity based on western models of devastating > the environment? > or some humble return to life, > > I believe, capitalism collapses, the moment consumption of the > commodities slows down. We have to devour, buy and create waste more > and more to keep this western model of economy going, that is what > makes it tick, that is what makes us feel 'we are living', and for > that reason alone we can go to any extent, steal the resources of the > other, tell them how wars are inevitable, and what not, > > How strange, they draw and analyze the monster they create themselves. > > best of wishes to all those who live in the west and keep on analyzing > us from a distance > > love to you and all > inder salim > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: >> *Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism* >> >> New York (PTI): Terming Pakistan as the centre of world terrorism, noted >> author Salman Rushdie has said the fact is that terrorist organisations >> are >> all based in that country. >> >> Rushdie also slammed Pakistan for its "cynical denial" that the >> terrorists >> involved in Mumbai strikes were not its nationals. >> >> "The fact is the world's terrorist organisations are all based in >> Pakistan. >> Taliban are there, al-Qaeda are there, LeT is there. They are all there >> with >> the active support of the Pakistani intelligence," he said while >> participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society. >> >> Referring to the remarks of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown that >> three-fourths of terror plots had links to Pakistan and al-Qaeda, the >> India-born novelist said Islamabad "can't go on pretending that there is >> no >> evidence. That's all garbage". >> >> He said that "when the President of Pakistan pretends that there is no >> evidence against somebody, he is also complicit in that. It is time to >> say >> to Pakistan this has to stop. You can't be a member of the free group of >> nations, if you are among the world's sponsor of terrorism, which is what >> now they have been". >> >> The Mumbai strikes, he said, were marked by brutality by the attackers >> and >> incompetence of government and security agencies in responding to them. >> >> Expressing skepticism that Islamabad would dismantle the terror groups, >> the >> panelists, during the discussion, said the world community should send a >> clear message to Pakistan that terrorists are becoming a liability to >> that >> country and it is in its own interest to dismantle them. >> >> The U.S. administration too came in for strong criticism for considering >> former President Pervez Musharraf an "ally in fighting terrorism" and >> giving >> billions of dollars to him without any condition that the money should be >> used to fight terrorists. >> >> The panelists recalled that Musharraf was responsible for aiding >> Lashkar-e-Taeba to fight in Kashmir during his years in the army and >> Rushdie >> said he put up a western face to the Westerns but was mullah to >> extremists. >> >> Rushdie strongly attacked Booker Prize winner Arundhiti Roy for linking >> the >> Mumbai terrorist attacks to Kashmir, Gujarat riots and demolition of >> Babri >> Masjid. >> >> Besides Rushdie, the panelists included former Bernard Schwartz Fellow >> Mira >> Kamdar, who had lost her cousin and her cousin's husband in the Mumbai >> attacks, and author of *Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found* Suketu >> Mehta. >> >> The terrorists, the participants said, are driven by a different >> philosophy >> and ideology and want to take the world back into the medieval ages. >> >> But they agreed that terrorists failed in their apparent bid to split >> Hindus >> and Muslims and ignite communal riots as both the communities condemned >> the >> attacks and vowed to unitedly fight terror. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 09:21:38 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:51:38 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] NEW YORK: New School In Exile Message-ID: Join the Occupation and Student Study-in going on RIGHT NOW at the Graduate Faculty student center on 65 5th Ave, NY! It'll be fun, and it will make a concrete difference! http://www.newschoolinexile.com An Open Letter: Come Occupy a Building with Us…Now Dear Friends, We are writing to you from the inside of the New School Graduate Faculty Building on 65 5th Ave. We are occupying it. Right now. Literally. Students of the New School University, along with our partners from other universities and groups – like NYU, Hunter College, City College of NY, CUNY Graduate Center, and Borough of Manhattan Community College, have organically risen up to demand the resignation of President Bob Kerrey, Executive Vice President James Murtha, and Board Member/torturer Robert B. Millard (he multi-tasks). We have come together to prevent our study spaces from being flattened by corporate bulldozers, to have a say in who runs this school, to demand that the money we spend on this institution be used to facilitate the creation of a better society, not to build bigger buildings or invest in companies that make war. We have come here not only to make demands, but also to live them. Our presence makes it clear that this school is ours, and yours, if you are with us. The outside doors have been closed now, so we can't exactly invite you in…sorry… We know you wanted a piece of the action, but we'll be around for quite some time. Join us at 7 AM tomorrow when the doors open again, or come now to stand outside with a sign in solidarity. You are cordially invited to join us in any way you can. We are not going anywhere. In the meantime, check out our Web site: www.newschoolinexile.com. We have all night to make things interesting, and the website will continue to be updated. Stay tuned for the musical pieces, doctoral dissertations, and creative finger-paintings that seem to be the natural result of 150 students locked into a building together for a night. We are here, making decisions collectively, doing teach-ins, listening to music, studying, singing. We've got an upright bassist, guitarists and vocalists (If anyone can volunteer a drum-set we'll be well on our way…). We'll be here until this university changes, or until the party gets boring (but it doesn't seem likely that will happen). We're not going anywhere. We hope to see you soon, and if you really can't wait a few hours – what the hell – occupy your own universities or work spaces. Come use your voice to declare loudly that this school and this world are yours. Come use your mind to think up a better world. Come use your body to create it, one all-nighter in the university cafeteria at a time. Come stand in solidarity with the students, faculty, and staff of this university. Come to write letters of support to the people of the village of Thanh Phong whose parents were murdered by the current President of the New School during his service in Vietnam. Come join the struggle with the people of Iraq who are being tortured and killed by a company funded by this university and represented on the New School Board of Trustees. Come here to join the uprisings and outpouring of passionate resistance currently taking place all over this country, and all over the worlds – from factory workers in Chicago to students in Greece. Come for yourself. Come for all of us. In solidarity, The New School in Exile ~ Demands of the Occupation ~ • The removal of Bob Kerrey as president of our university • The removal of James Murtha as executive vice president of our university • Students, faculty, and staff elect the president, EVP, and Provost. • Students are part of the interim committee to hire a provost. • The removal of Robert B. Millard as treasurer of the board of trustees. • Intelligible transparency and disclosure of the university budget and investments. • The creation of a committee on socially responsible investments. • The immediate suspension of capital improvement projects like the tearing down of 65 fifth Ave. • Instead, money towards the creation of an autonomous student space. • Instead, money towards scholarships and reducing tuition. • Instead, money for the library and student life generally. http://www.newschoolinexile.com From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 09:28:38 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:58:38 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Siemens Pleads Guilty in $5.3mm bribery case Message-ID: Siemens Bangladesh made bribery payments of about $5.3 million to officials in that country between May 2001 and August 2006, the agencies said. The payments were connected to a mobile telephone project. This story appeared on Network World at http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121508-siemens-pleads-guilty-to-bribery-related.html Siemens pleads guilty to bribery-related charges By Grant Gross , IDG News Service , 12/15/2008 Sponsored by: German electronics firm Siemens AG and three of its subsidiaries have pleaded guilty to charges related to the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), for a range of activity, including attempted bribery of government officials worldwide, according to two U.S. agencies. Due to the charges resulting from the US$805.5 million bribery scheme, Siemens and the subsidiaries have agree to pay criminal fines totaling $450 million, with the parent company paying $448.5 million, according to the U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. At a hearing in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Siemens AG pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal violations of the FCPA's internal controls and books and records provisions. Siemens Argentina pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to violate the books and records provisions of the FCPA. Siemens Bangladesh and Siemens Venezuela each pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to violate the antibribery and books and records provisions of the FCPA. Siemens' bribery effort was "unprecedented in scale and geographic reach," Linda Chatman Thomsen, director of the SEC's Division of Enforcement, said in a statement. Siemens representatives were not immediately available for comment. Beginning in the mid-1990s, Siemens AG engaged in systematic efforts to falsify its corporate books and records and knowingly failed to implement internal controls, the DOJ and SEC said. Siemens took advantage of lax internal controls to make bribery and other unaccounted payments totaling nearly $1.4 billion from March 2001 through 2007, the DOJ and SEC said. Of that money, nearly $805.5 million went to bribery payments to foreign government officials, the DOJ and SEC press release said. >From 2000 to 2002, four Siemens subsidiaries were awarded 42 contracts with a combined value of more than $80 million with the Ministries of Electricity and Oil in Iraq under the United Nations Oil for Food Program. Those four subsidiaries paid more than $1.7 million in kickbacks to the Iraqi government, the DOJ and SEC said. In addition, from September 1998 to 2007, Siemens Argentina made and caused to be made significant payments to various Argentine officials, both directly and indirectly, in exchange for favorable business treatment in connection with a $1 billion national identity card project, the press release said. Siemens Argentina made about $3.3 million in corrupt payments to Argentine officials between March 2001, when Siemens AG was listed on the New York Stock Exchange, and 2007, the agencies said. Siemens Venezuela made about $18.8 million in bribery payments to Venezuelan officials between November 2001 and May 2007, the agencies said. The payments were for favorable business treatment in major mass transit projects, the DOJ and SEC said. Siemens Bangladesh made bribery payments of about $5.3 million to officials in that country between May 2001 and August 2006, the agencies said. The payments were connected to a mobile telephone project. "Today's filings make clear that for much of its operations across the globe, bribery was nothing less than standard operating procedure for Siemens," Acting Assistant Attorney General Matthew Friedrich, said in a statement. "It should be equally clear that Siemens has undertaken significant remedial measures, instituted real reforms and cooperated from the inception of this investigation." Siemens AG and its audit committee disclosed potential violations to law enforcement officials, the agencies said. Under the terms of the plea agreement, Siemens AG has agreed to retain an independent compliance monitor for four years. The compliance officer will make reports to the DOJ. Also on Monday, Siemens AG agreed to a disposition resolving an ongoing investigation by the Munich Public Prosecutor's Office of Siemens AG's operating groups other than its telecommunications group. The charges were based on corporate failure to supervise its officers and employees, and in connection with those charges Siemens AG agreed to pay €395 million, or approximately $569 million, including a €250,000 corporate fine and €394.8 million in disgorgement of profits. In October 2007, the Munich Public Prosecutor's Office announced a settlement with Siemens AG under which Siemens AG agreed to pay €201 million, or approximately $287 million, including a €1 million fine and €200 million in disgorgement of profits. The October plea was related to bribery charges in Siemens' telecommunications group. In connection with the cases brought by the DOJ the SEC and the Munich Public Prosecutor's Office, Siemens AG will pay a combined total of more than $1.6 billion in fines. The IDG News Service is a Network World affiliate. All contents copyright 1995-2008 Network World, Inc. http://www.networkworld.com From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 10:17:55 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:17:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims Initiative against Terrorism Message-ID: SPECIAL INVITATION To give a final call to the nation against terrorism Muslim MPs and Eminent persons to join Muslims Initiative against Terrorism 2:30 pm to 5:00 pm, 19th, December, 2008 Main Auditorium, India Islamic Cultural Centre, Lodi Road, New Delhi - 110 003 R.S.V.P. M.J. Khan President Indian Muslims' Monitoring Research and Response Centre IMRC NEFM Kamal Faruqui Chairman State Minorities Commission Government of Delhi From rajeshr at csds.in Fri Dec 19 10:46:18 2008 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:46:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture by Jose Casanova postponed to 30 Jan 2009 Message-ID: Due to unavoidable circumstances, the 13th B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture by Professor Jose Casanova will not be delivered on 22nd December as announced earlier. Professor Casanova will deliver the Lecture on Friday, 30th January 2009. *Friday, 30th January, 2009* Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) cordially invites you to the *13th B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture** * *`Western Secularisation and Globalisation'* By *Professor* *Jose Casanova*** at *5 PM *at the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* * * *José Casanova* is one of the world's top scholars in the sociology of religion. Professor at the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Georgetown University, he also heads the Berkley Center's Program on Globalisation, Religion and the Secular. He has published works in a broad range of subjects, including religion and globalisation, migration and religious pluralism, transnational religions, and sociological theory. His best-known work, *Public Religions in the Modern World* (University of Chicago Press, 1994), has become a modern classic in the field. Professor Casanova has taught at the New School for Social Research from 1987 to 2007, where he occupied numerous distinguished positions including Chair of the Sociology Department and of the Committee on Historical Studies. In addition to his primary appointments, he has held visiting academic positions at New York University, at the Harriman Institute of Columbia University, at the Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen in Vienna, at the Bellagio Center of the Rockefeller Foundation, at the Wissenschaftskolleg zu Berlin and at the Central European University in Budapest. His most recent research has focused primarily on two areas: globalisation and religion, and the dynamics of transnational religion, migration, and increasing ethno-religious and cultural diversity. In studying religion and globalisation, his research has adopted an ambitious comparative perspective that includes Catholicism, Pentecostalism and Islam within its scope. His work on transnational migration and religion explores the incorporation of minorities and the construction of transnational networks, identities and structures. *B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lectures* are instituted in memory of the distinguished economist-intellectual Professor B.N. Ganguli, former Chair, CSDS Board of Governors. Earlier speakers in the series include Professors Charles Taylor, Rodolfo Stavenhagen, Raimundo Panikkar, Bhikhu Parekh, Ernest Gellner, Ali Mazrui, Roberto Unger, Michael Walzer, John Keane, Amit Bhaduri, Giorgio Agamben and Bina Agarwal. From ravikant at sarai.net Fri Dec 19 13:11:48 2008 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Not quite what I had in mind. Message-ID: <200812191311.48218.ravikant@sarai.net> What happens when a corporate giant like yahoo lays off people? Who is the first to be fired? Never thought it would be somebody working with its so-called commons project! It was just the other day in Taipei we celebrated George's efforts at bulding the flickr commons. Read this account in her own words and follow the link if you want to explore more. ravikant http://george08.blogspot.com/2008/12/not-quite-what-i-had-in-mind.html December 15, 2008 Not quite what I had in mind. by George Oats I wrote this 3 days ago on a plane. I've been cooking up an end-of-year blog post, feeling like my 35th year was one of the best so far. I've been unbelievably fortunate to spend quite a lot of it traveling the world to tell people about The Commons on Flickr. I've spoken in front of hundreds of people, sat in meetings in the bowels of museums, pored over a photographic archive in person, sent a ton of emails that I enjoyed writing (wtf?), met too many fascinating people to list, made lots of new friends, and been honestly excited about what I'm doing. After giving the opening keynote at the National Digital Forum in Auckland on November 27, then presenting at the Powerhouse Museum and the National Library of Australia, visiting with Commons members the State Library of New South Wales and the Australian War Memorial, I headed to Taipei for an exciting Culturemondo Roundtable event I was invited to attend. This Wednesday, I shook the hand of the Vice President of Taiwan, who was at the opening. The next day I presented with Seb Chan, about our take on "Search & Find." That evening we all went to a lovely dinner at one of the best Taiwanese joints in Taipei. (Thanks to Tien Sing, Shadiral, Christina and Aleksandra for being such entertaining dinner conversation.) Then off for a wander in one of the massive night markets. I decided to jump in a cab back to the hotel with Jackie from NZ Live and Jock from Te Ara. It took a slightly long way home, we suspected. When I got up to my room, I saw a text message from my manager, asking if he could call me on Friday at 9am. I wrote back to say I was going to be on a bus full of people at that time, and that I was awake now if he wanted to call. The phone rang. "I'll just get straight to the point. You've been affected by the layoffs." He told me he was reading from a script he was required to follow, and that he needed an address to send some sort of "Agreement" to me in Australia, and needed it sent back by December 19. Before I'd even finished the call, I twittered (to my private account): "Wow. I just got fired." I was immediately distressed. I stayed up until about 2:30am that night, chain smoking and talking to friends who saw my tweet and had responded - THANK YOU. I sent a formal request for time to transition The Commons program to whoever is to take it over: "A week should do it," I said. It was denied. (It would be unfair to give anyone affected by the lay-offs special treatment.) It's not just my treatment I worry about here. Such a sudden movement makes it especially hard to continue the program effectively, at least for a while. So silly. I sent a few tersely helpful emails before my email account was closed. Couldn't resist. Don't let The Commons die, you buggers! Can't you see how wonderful it is?!?!? Finally needed sleep. I woke up fairly early Friday and was immediately awake and tired. I got up and jumped on my laptop. I was very upset. The speed of the lay-off began to sting. I asked Seb to cover for me at the conference. I couldn't find my brave face - THANK YOU. Sent a quick, unsatisfying goodbye to the team. I watched as my access to various parts of the guts of Flickr fell away. I noticed how naturally I searched for any and all bits I could think of, just in the hope that it still existed. But no. I was shut out entirely within about 14 hours of the phone call. Support from friends kept coming - THANK YOU. I spoke with my mum and dad. Very upset. Watched The Net. It is that bad, but I didn't care. Ate some odd Taiwanese baked goods. Run out of smokes. I declined Seb's kind nudges to head out with the conference peeps for dinner. I just couldn't face the idea of being cheered up. I was beginning to feel humiliated, particularly given what I was up to. You know, being in Taiwan at an international conference to talk about my work. Stayed in. All day. Plus, I'd cried so much I looked like a boxer who'd just woken up the day after a fight. Not exactly game face. Realised I hadn't made it out of Denial yet. Packed to leave. Had to wake up at 3:00am to get to the airport. Woke up on time. Was given some fruit by the people at the front desk - what a nice gesture! Drove for an hour through the empty Taipei streets. Got on the flight to Hong Kong. Now on Hong Kong to Sydney, where I sit now, annoyed by everyone. Still shocked. So fucking brutal. Not what I had in mind at all. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 19 15:18:53 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:48:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Not quite what I had in mind- corporate ruthlessness In-Reply-To: <200812191311.48218.ravikant@sarai.net> References: <200812191311.48218.ravikant@sarai.net> Message-ID: Sad.It is rurhlessness- no emotions, no bonding- treat a human like a tool...???? Is capitalisn / economy actually all about money only . Govt. assurances not withstsndeing, the experts/economists warn that the 'worst' is still to come & thus the uncertainity / panick prevails in India too.All though lay offs have not been so high as yet but the projects are stalled & the payments are on hold. Globally also inspite of the intentially lowered crude oil production by OPEC/Russia the prices of crude oil continue to slide. Post 'parliament elections' scenario on the economic front may not be so rosy. And coupled with the current internal /external security threat perception ,coming days are likely to be difficult.Let us hope & pray that we are able to sail through..... Regards all LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: ravikant at sarai.net> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:11:48 +0530> Subject: [Reader-list] Not quite what I had in mind.> > What happens when a corporate giant like yahoo lays off people? Who is the > first to be fired? Never thought it would be somebody working with its > so-called commons project! It was just the other day in Taipei we celebrated > George's efforts at bulding the flickr commons. Read this account in her own > words and follow the link if you want to explore more.> > ravikant> > http://george08.blogspot.com/2008/12/not-quite-what-i-had-in-mind.html> > December 15, 2008> > Not quite what I had in mind.> > by George Oats> > I wrote this 3 days ago on a plane.> > I've been cooking up an end-of-year blog post, feeling like my 35th year was > one of the best so far. I've been unbelievably fortunate to spend quite a lot > of it traveling the world to tell people about The Commons on Flickr. I've > spoken in front of hundreds of people, sat in meetings in the bowels of > museums, pored over a photographic archive in person, sent a ton of emails > that I enjoyed writing (wtf?), met too many fascinating people to list, made > lots of new friends, and been honestly excited about what I'm doing. > > After giving the opening keynote at the National Digital Forum in Auckland on > November 27, then presenting at the Powerhouse Museum and the National > Library of Australia, visiting with Commons members the State Library of New > South Wales and the Australian War Memorial, I headed to Taipei for an > exciting Culturemondo Roundtable event I was invited to attend. This > Wednesday, I shook the hand of the Vice President of Taiwan, who was at the > opening. > > The next day I presented with Seb Chan, about our take on "Search & Find." > That evening we all went to a lovely dinner at one of the best Taiwanese > joints in Taipei. (Thanks to Tien Sing, Shadiral, Christina and Aleksandra > for being such entertaining dinner conversation.) Then off for a wander in > one of the massive night markets. I decided to jump in a cab back to the > hotel with Jackie from NZ Live and Jock from Te Ara. It took a slightly long > way home, we suspected.> > When I got up to my room, I saw a text message from my manager, asking if he > could call me on Friday at 9am. I wrote back to say I was going to be on a > bus full of people at that time, and that I was awake now if he wanted to > call. The phone rang.> > "I'll just get straight to the point. You've been affected by the layoffs."> > He told me he was reading from a script he was required to follow, and that he > needed an address to send some sort of "Agreement" to me in Australia, and > needed it sent back by December 19. Before I'd even finished the call, I > twittered (to my private account):> > "Wow. I just got fired." I was immediately distressed.> > I stayed up until about 2:30am that night, chain smoking and talking to > friends who saw my tweet and had responded - THANK YOU. I sent a formal > request for time to transition The Commons program to whoever is to take it > over: "A week should do it," I said. It was denied. > > (It would be unfair to give anyone affected by the lay-offs special > treatment.) It's not just my treatment I worry about here. Such a sudden > movement makes it especially hard to continue the program effectively, at > least for a while. So silly. I sent a few tersely helpful emails before my > email account was closed. Couldn't resist. Don't let The Commons die, you > buggers! Can't you see how wonderful it is?!?!?> > Finally needed sleep. I woke up fairly early Friday and was immediately awake > and tired. I got up and jumped on my laptop.> > I was very upset. The speed of the lay-off began to sting. I asked Seb to > cover for me at the conference. I couldn't find my brave face - THANK YOU.> > Sent a quick, unsatisfying goodbye to the team. I watched as my access to > various parts of the guts of Flickr fell away. I noticed how naturally I > searched for any and all bits I could think of, just in the hope that it > still existed. But no. I was shut out entirely within about 14 hours of the > phone call.> > Support from friends kept coming - THANK YOU. I spoke with my mum and dad. > Very upset. > > Watched The Net. It is that bad, but I didn't care. Ate some odd Taiwanese > baked goods. Run out of smokes. > > I declined Seb's kind nudges to head out with the conference peeps for dinner. > I just couldn't face the idea of being cheered up. I was beginning to feel > humiliated, particularly given what I was up to. You know, being in Taiwan at > an international conference to talk about my work. Stayed in. All day. Plus, > I'd cried so much I looked like a boxer who'd just woken up the day after a > fight. Not exactly game face.> > Realised I hadn't made it out of Denial yet. Packed to leave. Had to wake up > at 3:00am to get to the airport. > > Woke up on time. Was given some fruit by the people at the front desk - what a > nice gesture! Drove for an hour through the empty Taipei streets. Got on the > flight to Hong Kong. Now on Hong Kong to Sydney, where I sit now, annoyed by > everyone. Still shocked. So fucking brutal. > > Not what I had in mind at all.> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner? Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://in.msn.com/matrimony From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 19 17:32:34 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:02:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22Twelve_steps_to_shock-and-awe_Pakistan?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_economy=27-_Prof_R_Vaidyanathan_in_DNA?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <215480.50547.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   I did not quite understand what you were alluding to.   To bring in specificity, if you were trying to say that both India and Pakistan have 'cancers', I will fully agree with you.   If you were trying to say that both India and Pakistan should tackle their own 'cancers', I will fully agree with you.   Those diversions from what was being discussed have their own scope for being analysed.   What was originally the topic was the 'cancer' that is getting exported from Pakistan into India. Getting exported through what Pakistan calls 'non-state' actors. In the past, the State of Pakistan has itself been complicit in such 'export of cancers' . It is has been argued and believed by many analysts that Pakistan continues to being complicit even if it is only by convieniently 'turning a blind eye' to the export of the 'cancers' or by 'shadowy parts' of the Pakistan Establishment continuing to 'rear' and 'export' the 'cancers'.   How is that to be tackled? It is not a problem faced by India alone.   Kshmendra   PS. Something strange. More and more Pakistanis are acknowledging the presence (and rearing-up of and export of ) and calling for the "cancers' in Pakistan to be tackled by Pakistan without making excuses about America, Jews, Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq,. Afghanistan. And we have Indians who seem to be proxy voices for the Pakistani Lobby who declare "It is not our fault, someone else is to blame."   --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Javed wrote: From: Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan’s economy'- Prof R Vaidyanathan in DNA To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 10:02 PM In that case, there is no need to identify which are cancerous cells. Because I think in society every cell is half cancerous and half healthy. The real cure is to first realize this fact, and then suppress your cancerous half. But that is difficult because we would continue to believe that "we" are fully healthy cells while the "enemy" is fully cancerous, hence needs to be eliminated. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > To carry forward your analogy. It would be more like Vaidyanathan advocating > "Economic Chemotherapy". > > The question however is whether that would kill the "bad cells" or the "good > cells". Which ones would survive; which ones would mutate; which ones would > gallop-multiply. > > Excising out all 'cancer cells' is possible only when they are localised > and can be identified as being so. Once a cancer reaches the "lymph nodes" > it courses through the body. Even if you cut out the 'primary' site, it > would rear up in many a 'secondary' locations. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Javed wrote: > > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's > economy'- Prof R Vaidyanathan in DNA > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 8:49 PM > > What Vaidyanathan means is that if you want to eradicate cancer, kill > the cancer patient. Or rather kill all cancer patients so that others > don't get infected. > I know people will take my statement as an anti-India statement, but > to me it looks like if you have cancer in your left arm, then you cut > that off to save the body. > > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> A column in the newspaper DNA (of 9th Dec '08) by Prof R Vaidyanathan > has been coming up often during discussions in Pakistani Media on the > current > India-Pakistan equations. It is being cited as defenitive proof in support > of > the viewpoint that India seeks to destroy Pakistan. Not without due reason. >> >> Vaidyanathan is no "airra gairaa nathu khairaa" (just any Indian > non-entity). He is a Professor of Finance and Control at the Indian > Institute of > Management (IIM) - Bangalore. Not a sloganeering Politician (let us wage war > on > Pakistan) or a dimwit Simi Garewal (let us carpet bomb Pakistan). Not an > idiot. > Or, is he not? >> >> Those who (ostensibly out of love for India) speak about the (physical or > economic) destruction of Pakistan, do not seem to realise that any > disintegration of Pakistan is more than likely going to increase the threats > to > the security of India. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> "Twelve steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's economy " >> Prof R Vaidyanathan >> Tuesday, December 09 >> >> (Economic destabilisation of the Terror Central is imperative for rooting > out terror.) >> >> I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article > last week (December 2) slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have > sought > concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central. The terror attack on world > citizens > at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is > imperative > that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan. >> >> >> A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone > India. Army controls the country and owns its economy. A significant portion > of > its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See Military Inc Inside > Pakistan's Military Economy by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily > say that Pakistan Economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous. >> >> >> Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. > This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable > Pakistan > means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue > organisation > ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan's > economy. >> >> >> Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man - he did not > trust his own investigators to probe his wife's assassination - he wanted > Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are > satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside > Pakistan. Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful > idiots > (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon > over > such events. >> >> >> India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of > Pakistan: >> n Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets > etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from > India. > Hurt Pakistan on the export front. >> >> >> Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist > them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense > items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. > Tell > Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects > will be in jeopardy. >> >> >> Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human > rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government > organs. > Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms > exporters > to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives. >> >> >> Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, > their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is > real > politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of > emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that > international economics is politics by another name. >> >> >> Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their > country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. > Or > just drop their notes in remote areas. >> >> >> Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them > or at least do not vote for their loans. >> >> >> Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi Stock market - it is > already in shambles. >> >> >> Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both > have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the > eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by > burning > D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT > department > when nobody comes to bid for it. >> n Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in > that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money > laundering, > etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully > integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is > provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should > coordinate > with RAW. >> >> >> Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt > for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their > self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports > — > many will jump to get our passport — since they will not be stopped at > international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not > give > passports to all — make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army and ISI > controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and > self-confidence. >> >> >> Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly > IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international > terrorism). >> >> >> In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic > religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if > there are elements helping them here then they also should be > punished-irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the > idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted > out. >> >> >> Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and > scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras? It is > going > to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to > our > existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to > combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the > 'Gujral Doctrine' by that mumbling Prime Minister about treating younger > brothers with equanimity. >> >> >> The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the > cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show. He, > according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human > intelligent > assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of > Indian citizens in the last few years. Such is our strategic thinking in > this > complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the > elite > don't think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in > our actions rather than the other way. >> >> >> Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of > taking care of its own interests. >> >> >> The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of > Management - Bangalore, and can be reached at vaidya at iimb.ernet.in. Views > are > personal. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > From nilankur at cultureunplugged.com Fri Dec 19 18:54:31 2008 From: nilankur at cultureunplugged.com (Nilankur) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:54:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From Culture Unplugged Studios Message-ID: <3D395A31-7091-473A-ADDD-3C49FEABD34D@cultureunplugged.com> Dear Sarai Readers Culture Unplugged Studios invites you to reflect and represent your voice at http: //filmedia.cultureunplugged.com This is an open invitation to participate in collective contemplation on subjects such as: - Role of Media in today's world. - Film projects in production - Unseen/Underground Cinema - Role of spirituality in modern societies - Green : is it a noise or true voice? - Global Citizenship : an ideal or reality? - Knowledge sharing on art of film making. We envision this platform to be habited by all of us who not only dream of change but believe that the world we need to change is only possible by bringing the change in the self first. It is a place where we anticipate the dialogue to be inclusive, the language that does not separate the self and the other. We hope for public to find conversations here deep, warm yet provoking. If you have voice that meets this vision and is awaiting to reach global audience, please visit http: //filmedia.cultureunplugged.com Let your voice be heard and work its way for the change you dream. To learn about Culture Unplugged Studios, please visit http://www.cultureunplugged.com nilankur Culture Unplugged Studios India | USA | UK | New Zealand From nilankur at cultureunplugged.com Fri Dec 19 19:08:10 2008 From: nilankur at cultureunplugged.com (Nilankur) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:08:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From Culture Unplugged Studios Message-ID: <7DF08582-9A72-443F-A16B-AC9A9868630D@cultureunplugged.com> Dear Sarai Readers Culture Unplugged Studios invites you to reflect and represent your voice at http: //filmedia.cultureunplugged.com This is an open invitation to participate in collective contemplation on subjects such as: - Role of Media in today's world. - Film projects in production - Unseen/Underground Cinema - Role of spirituality in modern societies - Green : is it a noise or true voice? - Global Citizenship : an ideal or reality? - Knowledge sharing on art of film making. We envision this platform to be habited by all of us who not only dream of change but believe that the world we need to change is only possible by bringing the change in the self first. It is a place where we anticipate the dialogue to be inclusive, the language that does not separate the self and the other. We hope for public to find conversations here deep, warm yet provoking. If you have voice that meets this vision and is awaiting to reach global audience, please visit http://filmedia.cultureunplugged.com/forum/index.php Let your voice be heard and work its way for the change you dream. To learn about Culture Unplugged Studios, please visit http://www.cultureunplugged.com nilankur Culture Unplugged Studios India | USA | UK | New Zealand From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 21:19:10 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:49:10 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Not quite what I had in mind. References: <200812191311.48218.ravikant@sarai.net> Message-ID: <8E281D0AC350498991EF58D36A2C40EA@tara> Zygmunt Bauman has written extensively on the issues arising of today's employers who are everywhere but not tied to anywhere. Earlier factories were supposed to be responsible to the community whose territory these entrepreneurs were using to establish a venture. Now mostly they do not belong to any territory. Bauman compares them with absentee landlords of the feudal times. These firms are less responsible than an absentee landlord in several senses. The firms like yahoo have only responsibility to their share holders, which are found throughout the world. Bauman's, and other such writing, irritates when you are involved in the enterprise, when you are employed with such firms and make good money. You, then, think that these writers do nothing but making mountains of the mole-hills. But when you are renderred useless by these firms, such writing is music to the ears. It is like listening to sad songs when heart-broken (our sweetest songs are those which tell of saddest thought), after dancing on the tunes of merry ditties. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ravikant" To: Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:41 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Not quite what I had in mind. > What happens when a corporate giant like yahoo lays off people? Who is the > first to be fired? Never thought it would be somebody working with its > so-called commons project! It was just the other day in Taipei we > celebrated > George's efforts at bulding the flickr commons. Read this account in her > own > words and follow the link if you want to explore more. > > ravikant > > http://george08.blogspot.com/2008/12/not-quite-what-i-had-in-mind.html > > December 15, 2008 > > Not quite what I had in mind. > > by George Oats > > I wrote this 3 days ago on a plane. > > I've been cooking up an end-of-year blog post, feeling like my 35th year > was > one of the best so far. I've been unbelievably fortunate to spend quite a > lot > of it traveling the world to tell people about The Commons on Flickr. I've > spoken in front of hundreds of people, sat in meetings in the bowels of > museums, pored over a photographic archive in person, sent a ton of emails > that I enjoyed writing (wtf?), met too many fascinating people to list, > made > lots of new friends, and been honestly excited about what I'm doing. > > After giving the opening keynote at the National Digital Forum in Auckland > on > November 27, then presenting at the Powerhouse Museum and the National > Library of Australia, visiting with Commons members the State Library of > New > South Wales and the Australian War Memorial, I headed to Taipei for an > exciting Culturemondo Roundtable event I was invited to attend. This > Wednesday, I shook the hand of the Vice President of Taiwan, who was at > the > opening. > > The next day I presented with Seb Chan, about our take on "Search & Find." > That evening we all went to a lovely dinner at one of the best Taiwanese > joints in Taipei. (Thanks to Tien Sing, Shadiral, Christina and Aleksandra > for being such entertaining dinner conversation.) Then off for a wander in > one of the massive night markets. I decided to jump in a cab back to the > hotel with Jackie from NZ Live and Jock from Te Ara. It took a slightly > long > way home, we suspected. > > When I got up to my room, I saw a text message from my manager, asking if > he > could call me on Friday at 9am. I wrote back to say I was going to be on a > bus full of people at that time, and that I was awake now if he wanted to > call. The phone rang. > > "I'll just get straight to the point. You've been affected by the > layoffs." > > He told me he was reading from a script he was required to follow, and > that he > needed an address to send some sort of "Agreement" to me in Australia, and > needed it sent back by December 19. Before I'd even finished the call, I > twittered (to my private account): > > "Wow. I just got fired." I was immediately distressed. > > I stayed up until about 2:30am that night, chain smoking and talking to > friends who saw my tweet and had responded - THANK YOU. I sent a formal > request for time to transition The Commons program to whoever is to take > it > over: "A week should do it," I said. It was denied. > > (It would be unfair to give anyone affected by the lay-offs special > treatment.) It's not just my treatment I worry about here. Such a sudden > movement makes it especially hard to continue the program effectively, at > least for a while. So silly. I sent a few tersely helpful emails before my > email account was closed. Couldn't resist. Don't let The Commons die, you > buggers! Can't you see how wonderful it is?!?!? > > Finally needed sleep. I woke up fairly early Friday and was immediately > awake > and tired. I got up and jumped on my laptop. > > I was very upset. The speed of the lay-off began to sting. I asked Seb to > cover for me at the conference. I couldn't find my brave face - THANK YOU. > > Sent a quick, unsatisfying goodbye to the team. I watched as my access to > various parts of the guts of Flickr fell away. I noticed how naturally I > searched for any and all bits I could think of, just in the hope that it > still existed. But no. I was shut out entirely within about 14 hours of > the > phone call. > > Support from friends kept coming - THANK YOU. I spoke with my mum and dad. > Very upset. > > Watched The Net. It is that bad, but I didn't care. Ate some odd Taiwanese > baked goods. Run out of smokes. > > I declined Seb's kind nudges to head out with the conference peeps for > dinner. > I just couldn't face the idea of being cheered up. I was beginning to feel > humiliated, particularly given what I was up to. You know, being in Taiwan > at > an international conference to talk about my work. Stayed in. All day. > Plus, > I'd cried so much I looked like a boxer who'd just woken up the day after > a > fight. Not exactly game face. > > Realised I hadn't made it out of Denial yet. Packed to leave. Had to wake > up > at 3:00am to get to the airport. > > Woke up on time. Was given some fruit by the people at the front desk - > what a > nice gesture! Drove for an hour through the empty Taipei streets. Got on > the > flight to Hong Kong. Now on Hong Kong to Sydney, where I sit now, annoyed > by > everyone. Still shocked. So fucking brutal. > > Not what I had in mind at all. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 21:31:07 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:31:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism In-Reply-To: <7A6754ADF3284FCCAE7A9C51821A7560@tara> References: <6353c690812180354x28895510n4c0f6975b8a6f5b6@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70812181015p31f81997jad596afe83f02a40@mail.gmail.com> <7A6754ADF3284FCCAE7A9C51821A7560@tara> Message-ID: <47e122a70812190801i367912d2gd5bd1363df972473@mail.gmail.com> dear Tara, Thanks for this response which i thought would go unreflected. There are lot of people in Pakistan who hate America, and equally lot of Americans who hate pakistanis. But as you know, there is a lot of goodness in the people of both the countries in spite of the fact that something is seriously ailing in these two countries. Now when Salman Rushide says something very bluntly about Pakistan, it is bound to fuel anti-American hate opinion inside Pakistan. There is no dearth of it anyway, but when we use words like Pakistan or India, or America- it somehow includes all the people . Let us blame the sound. A creative writer like Salman Rushide should be conscious of that dimension of the word. There are millions who take his comments seriously, i am John Nobody, as you know. I remember, once Salman Rushide created a controversy by declaring that the best writing in India happens only in English language. I dont agree to his opinion, and i dont expect Rushide to change his opinion. It is very simple to blame Pakistan for all the ills of present day terrorism. It was very simply to blame Germany for World War II. Hitler was the only bad guy until we discovered that Stalin was as bad as him and many many clones of both of them were at the helm during that time. As you know things are quite complex beneath the surface, and a writer of his intelligence can dare to go deeper. He once did by blaming America for Iraq war, and and i guess he must have blamed America for Afganistan War too, and if that is so then the responsibility of breeding terrorism goes entirely to America. I guess you largely agree with me when you said, "Rushdie may be overstepping his capacity and authority by analyzing and pissing at Pakistan from a distance". Yes, literally, in absence of proper urinals, i do piss where everyone else pisses, and i am not ashamed of it. But it does not mean that i am happy about it. Rushide himself has thrived because of his Indian past. The question here emerges is about the absence of the language which pin points what is 'oriental' as Edward Said popularized through different expressions. Is English language, the only instrument which can give us meaning ? . Here, i see all the so called civilized roads lead to America, and the train which takes us there is made up of English language only. That english language which is spoken from American about other version of life and literature. I see the the boot hurled at Bush as a non-english word which is illegible to the west, but i see it a talisman, a symbol for change. it was not a bomb, but it was the word, which i guess Salman Rushide ought to borrow for some right meaning in his talk on terrorism and war, Unfortunately, war machinery and militrary is almost a cultural part of any sovereign state. War is almost their way of interacting. It s like a litterary meet that happens in the capitals of different State, here or there. If that is a given situation, which almost makes the heads of these states to justify Wars ( Iraq War is recent example ) then in what shade do we see terrorism? Is war an accepted phenomenon and terrorism is still a sickness of minds. What is the difference when planes drop bombs on innocents people and when terrorists spray bullets on the innocent people. One is vertical and other is horizontal. That is the only difference. Yes, i know examples are slippery, and by saying that all Indians and Pakistanis love to piss anywhere, i indeed trivialized the entire mass of MALES, which was not the intention, but thanks for sensitizing me on that. lot of love inder salim On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:24 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Dear Inder. I wonder if you have pissed at some places where everyone else > was pissing. To be honest, there are norms about pissing at places too. When > the first man started pissing at a place, there was a rationale which came > from our collective psyche. If you were to start pissing in Taj, or in CP, > or in a class room, inside a temple, mosque, church or a gurdwara; during > your protest against death penalty, during protests movements asking for > Rushdie's, Taslima Nasreen's, MF Hussein's, George Bush's, Musharraf's, or > anybody else's head; not all of us Indian-Pakistani men will start following > you in the act of pissing. That kind of pissing is reserved for a secluded, > shady, nontransparent place. You might have different ideas but then these > are your personal opinions. Rushdie may be overstepping his capacity and > authority by analyzing and pissing at Pakistan from a distance, you too are > trivializing Indian and Pakistani men by trivializing their desire for > pissing. I don't think you should piss on everybody's behalf. Please, let > there be polychromatic pissing. Some will go a step ahead. Pissing and > shitting might stink, but for those who are involved in shitting and > pissing, it gives relief to them. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "indersalim" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism > > >> Dear Salman Rushdie, >> >> You know what, we ( Men ) both Indians and Pakistanis love to piss >> at a place where everybody pisses, >> >> It is just takes one Man to start pissing at a particular place, and >> it quickly qualifies as a favorite pissing place. This time ( of >> history ) it just happens to be Pakistan, and we all love to piss at >> it, and then see it from a distance, and say, - Oh, see this place, >> it really stinks, what to do now? >> >> How easy it has become to hate pakistan these days. >> >> anyway, this will go on like that, but, the reality is deeper than all >> that, >> i guess, in many ways, White Man's foreign policies towards 'the >> other' have been terrorizing the world all the time, and will >> continue, with their white collars intact. >> >> Can you really spell out what is ailing our heart, what is the name of >> the disease that is making all of us sick ? what is that? The west has >> given it a name : islamic terrorism? and if it is a fact, is there a >> Doctor in the west ? >> >> Alas, you are just one more analyst, amongst millions in this world, >> who come to this conclusion that Pakistan is the hub of world >> terrorism. But what about the creative writer inside you, is that also >> so boring, monochromatic and dull ? >> >> what is the hope, the modernity based on western models of devastating >> the environment? >> or some humble return to life, >> >> I believe, capitalism collapses, the moment consumption of the >> commodities slows down. We have to devour, buy and create waste more >> and more to keep this western model of economy going, that is what >> makes it tick, that is what makes us feel 'we are living', and for >> that reason alone we can go to any extent, steal the resources of the >> other, tell them how wars are inevitable, and what not, >> >> How strange, they draw and analyze the monster they create themselves. >> >> best of wishes to all those who live in the west and keep on analyzing >> us from a distance >> >> love to you and all >> inder salim >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul >> wrote: >>> >>> *Rushdie dubs Pakistan centre of world terrorism* >>> >>> New York (PTI): Terming Pakistan as the centre of world terrorism, noted >>> author Salman Rushdie has said the fact is that terrorist organisations >>> are >>> all based in that country. >>> >>> Rushdie also slammed Pakistan for its "cynical denial" that the >>> terrorists >>> involved in Mumbai strikes were not its nationals. >>> >>> "The fact is the world's terrorist organisations are all based in >>> Pakistan. >>> Taliban are there, al-Qaeda are there, LeT is there. They are all there >>> with >>> the active support of the Pakistani intelligence," he said while >>> participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society. >>> >>> Referring to the remarks of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown that >>> three-fourths of terror plots had links to Pakistan and al-Qaeda, the >>> India-born novelist said Islamabad "can't go on pretending that there is >>> no >>> evidence. That's all garbage". >>> >>> He said that "when the President of Pakistan pretends that there is no >>> evidence against somebody, he is also complicit in that. It is time to >>> say >>> to Pakistan this has to stop. You can't be a member of the free group of >>> nations, if you are among the world's sponsor of terrorism, which is what >>> now they have been". >>> >>> The Mumbai strikes, he said, were marked by brutality by the attackers >>> and >>> incompetence of government and security agencies in responding to them. >>> >>> Expressing skepticism that Islamabad would dismantle the terror groups, >>> the >>> panelists, during the discussion, said the world community should send a >>> clear message to Pakistan that terrorists are becoming a liability to >>> that >>> country and it is in its own interest to dismantle them. >>> >>> The U.S. administration too came in for strong criticism for considering >>> former President Pervez Musharraf an "ally in fighting terrorism" and >>> giving >>> billions of dollars to him without any condition that the money should be >>> used to fight terrorists. >>> >>> The panelists recalled that Musharraf was responsible for aiding >>> Lashkar-e-Taeba to fight in Kashmir during his years in the army and >>> Rushdie >>> said he put up a western face to the Westerns but was mullah to >>> extremists. >>> >>> Rushdie strongly attacked Booker Prize winner Arundhiti Roy for linking >>> the >>> Mumbai terrorist attacks to Kashmir, Gujarat riots and demolition of >>> Babri >>> Masjid. >>> >>> Besides Rushdie, the panelists included former Bernard Schwartz Fellow >>> Mira >>> Kamdar, who had lost her cousin and her cousin's husband in the Mumbai >>> attacks, and author of *Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found* Suketu >>> Mehta. >>> >>> The terrorists, the participants said, are driven by a different >>> philosophy >>> and ideology and want to take the world back into the medieval ages. >>> >>> But they agreed that terrorists failed in their apparent bid to split >>> Hindus >>> and Muslims and ignite communal riots as both the communities condemned >>> the >>> attacks and vowed to unitedly fight terror. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Dec 20 04:02:50 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:32:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-1 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812191432m3b19bfdasa8ff7f5c534366f2@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, The news item pasted below is from a GOI press release from 1999-2000. This was for the first time that the government spelled out its plans to issue a national identity card. Regards Taha http://pib.nic.in/archive/100daysgovt/eng100days15.html 100 DAYS OF THE NEW GOVERNMENT (October 13, 1999 - January 20, 2000) POLICIES PROGRAMMES & INITIATIVES HOME AFFAIRS Scheme for Issue of National Identity Cards A Proposal for Compulsory Registration of all Citizens and non-Citizens in the country and issuing them Multi-purpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) has been under consideration in the Ministry. It is felt that apart from a credible identification system for multifarious socio-economic use, MNIC would act as deterrent for future illegal immigration as it would provide a mechanism for quick identification and deportation. The Home Ministry has commissioned detailed feasibility study of National Identity Cards System to provide identity card to all citizens in the country. M/s Tata Consultancy Services have been entrusted by the MHA to conduct the feasibility study which would cover a comprehensive examination of the feasibility of creation of an Integrated Data Base of the population and for the issue of identity cards to the citizens. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Dec 20 04:12:37 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:42:37 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-2 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812191442h4983845br52ea483c569f296b@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, The following report was published on May 24 2001 in the Tribune Newspaper. This report points toward the key themes or justifying arguments mobilized by the government of India in arguing for a National Identity card. These arguments are- threat of infiltration, unsafe borders and presence of illegal immigrants. Regards Taha http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010524/main3.htm GoM for single force on border S. Satyanarayanan Tribune News Service New Delhi, May 23 The report of the Group of Ministers on "reforming the national security system" has recommended creation of a separate Department of Border Management within the Ministry of Home Affairs and points out that multiplicity of forces on the same border has led to lack of accountability on the part of the forces. "In order to pay focussed attention to the issues pertaining to border management it would be desirable to create a separate Department of Border Management within the Ministry of Home Affairs under the overall charge of the Home Secretary," the report released by the Union Home Minister, Mr L.K. Advani, along with the External Affairs and Defence Minister, Mr Jaswant Singh, and the Finance Minister, Mr Yashwant Sinha, said here today. The report pointed out that at present there were instances of more than one force working on the same border and questions of conflict in command and control had been raised frequently. "To enforce accountability, the principle of 'one border one force' may be adopted while considering the deployment of forces at the border," it said. The report emphasised that border guarding forces need to be distinguished from other central paramilitary forces and the central police organisations because of their "distinctive functions". "It is imperative that the border guarding forces are not deployed in the states to deal with internal disturbances, law and order duties and counter-insurgency operations," it said, adding that withdrawal of border guarding forces for such duties limited their capabilities to guard the borders effectively. However, it said while there may be exceptional circumstances where it may be necessary to utilise the services of border guarding forces for performing law and order/counter-insurgency duties, as a rule, these forces should not be withdrawn from the borders. Since the border guarding force will also have the responsibility bearing on internal security like preventing illegal immigration, carrying out anti-smuggling activities, checking infiltration, collection of intelligence etc, the GoM in its report recommended the ITBP and Assam Rifles should be conferred with powers under the Customs Act and the Criminal Procedure Code as in the case of the BSF. "Whenever a border is placed under the charge of the Army, directly under it or through border guarding forces placed under its operational control, it would be the responsibility of the Army to perform these and allied duties," it said. The GoM also recommended that a concerted action needed to be initiated at the earliest by the government to urgently take up the demarcation on the ground of our land boundaries and the settlement of our maritime borders with our neighbours. The GoM has also proposed introduction of a multi-purpose national identity card (MPNIC) and a work permit for refugees as part of an exercise to check illegal immigration into India which has assumed serious proportions. The report recommends compulsory registration of citizens and non-citizens in India which would facilitate preparation of a national register of citizens. It says that non-citizens should be issued identity cards of a different colour and design. The identity cards would be introduced initially in the 20-km border belt and later extended to the hinterland. The Centre should meet the full cost of the identity card scheme, it said. Pointing out that the country is yet to fully wake up to the implications of the unchecked immigration for the national security, it says that today we have about 15 million Bangladeshis, 2.2 million Nepalese, 70,000 Sri Lankan Tamils and about one lakh Tibetan migrants living in India. Demographic changes had been brought about in the border belts of West Bengal, several districts in Bihar, Assam, Tripura and Meghalaya as a result of large-scale illegal migration, it said, adding that even states like Delhi, Maharashtra and Rajasthan had been affected. "Such large-scale migration had obvious social, economic, political and security implications," it said adding that unfortunately, action on this subject invariably assumed communal overtones with political parties taking positions to suit the interest of their vote banks. The GoM recommended the Indian Air Force should enhance its lower level air defence surveillance capability through procurement of additional low-level transportable radars as part of efforts to safeguard the sanctity of Indian air space. It also suggested measures to counter the threat of intrusion from unmanned aerial vehicles, induction of additional radars, aerostats and airborne warning and control system aircraft may be inducted to enhance surveillance of air space, expediting procurement of integrated air command and control system and integration of all national radar resources of the Army, the Navy and Civil forces at a faster pace. Back From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 12:40:25 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:40:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? Message-ID: Dear friends I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" From: "zohra javed" To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice rather than accepting a political charity. Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit to begin with. It is very important to understand that laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter to make election issues out of them or score political and social points. Indeed that political party is best which can implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double standards. The common people have time and again proved their innocence and smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either foolish or a traitor. Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as anti-national. Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our investigating agencies, media and the political parties do not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his community. The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, are really true to their religion? Can there at all be any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every detail into account before coming to conclusions as we must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an unbiased probe into the "business of terror". Zohra Javed From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 13:38:51 2008 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood farooqui) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:38:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] kathryn Hansen's email Message-ID: Any body has the email for the parsi theatre historian Kathryn Hansen From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 20 14:20:39 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:50:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Fatima   Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an intemperate comment directed at you over your "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting.   Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that you do not want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have done exactly the opposite.   On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of the Muslims of India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim?   Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given atmosphere post Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by Pakistanis.  Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy voice for those Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the Pakistani connection to the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the proxy voice for those Pakistanis who want to divert the attention away from the Pakistani connection to the Mumbai Terror Attacks.   Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately.   Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress partyman. He could always have discussed the "suspicions about Karkare's death" internally withing the Party / Government. Both would have been more than keen to enquire into or exploit that suspicion at the appropiate time since it would mean discrediting / attacking the Hindutvavaadis.    You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India.   You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking the same questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith Muslims might not be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might think that thia is not the point of time when such questions should be asked on the basis of some vague 'conspiracy theory'.    Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you):   """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into the involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he was eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but such suspicions are not illogical. """"   Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that dramatic statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List.   I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India.   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: From: Fatima फ़ातिमा Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? To: "Reader-list" Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM Dear friends I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" From: "zohra javed" To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice rather than accepting a political charity. Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit to begin with. It is very important to understand that laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter to make election issues out of them or score political and social points. Indeed that political party is best which can implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double standards. The common people have time and again proved their innocence and smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either foolish or a traitor. Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as anti-national. Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our investigating agencies, media and the political parties do not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his community. The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, are really true to their religion? Can there at all be any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every detail into account before coming to conclusions as we must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an unbiased probe into the "business of terror". Zohra Javed _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Dec 20 15:47:16 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:47:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <118CBDE2-AF2F-4175-B68A-5115EEB0A6A5@sarai.net> Dear Kshmendra, Dear Fatima, I think one has to be very careful under the present circumstances. It is too easy to read motives into acts and statements and the shadows and echoes of acts and statements. Perhaps we can also give not just others, but also ourselves, the benefit of the doubt, from time to time. There is nothing wrong with scepticism, in my opinion, as long as we do not harden our suspicions into counter-certainties. There is nothing wrong with affirming an opinion, as long as it does not prevent the airing of a sceptical opinion. It seems reasonable at this time for me to think that in this instance, Hemant Karkare died because a certain group of terrorists, who in all likelihood happened to have come from Pakistan, who did not know his identity or the significance of the investigation he was dealing with, opened fire on the police vehicle in which he happened to be travelling. It was obviously a police vehicle, the assailants knew that the people inside were likely to be policemen, so they opened fire. This is perfectly understandable.in terms of motivation, and we do not necessarily need to read 'deeper' meaning into this fact. Prima Facie, this seems to be the case. I am reasonably certain that in opening fire, they (the assailants) were unaware of the fact that they had dealt a severely undermined the chances of a serious investigation into the relationships between Hindutva and terrorism. Objectively, this proves again that seemingly antagonistic extremists are often each other's best allies, if not by design, then even by accident. This is my opinion, based on what I have read, seen and heard so far. All those familiar with my reading of much that gets reported with regard to terrorism will recognise that this is one of the rare instances, where I am willing to accept that the 'official' version may in fact have a greater degree of fidelity to the circumstances of that evening. This does not mean that I have a 'pro-India' position on the death of Hemant Karkare. In fact I do not think that there can be a 'pro' or 'anti' India position in the matter of a criminal investigation. I am relying more on the merit of the argument than on the identity of those making the argument. However, if there is a better explaination for what happened on the 26th of November to Hemant Karkare and his colleagues, which is more consistent with the ground realities of the locations where the killings took place then I will not hesitate to replace my current understanding of the events with one that fits better. This does not mean that I will then have embraced an 'anti-India' or 'anti- National' position on that matter either. I repeat, I do not think that there can be a 'pro' or 'anti' India/National position in the matter of a criminal investigation. There can be a 'pro' or 'anti' the truth position. I do not think that that 'India' (or 'Pakistan', or any other nation, for that matter) and the 'truth' are the same thing. Let us also be clear about the fact that there were serious threats made to his life and safety by people who did not come from Pakistan, people who did have a great deal to lose, given the directions in which the investigations that he had undertaken was heading. Karkare was attacked by many amongst those who are hailing him as a martyr today. Had Hemant Karkare survived November 26, his life would still have been in danger, and there is every reason to believe that the danger to his life would have originated in those who stand to suffer from the exposure of the linkage between Hindutva, 'rogue' elements within the state security and military apparatus, the criminal underworld and terrorism. I believe that one should remain open to hearing and attempting to understand all kinds of attempts at explaining and narrating the truth, regardless of how convenient or inconvenient they are to our political convictions, or to our settled ways of looking at things. I enclose below a text that I read on countercurrent that I have found interesting to think about. I do not necessarily agree with everything it says and cites, nor do I disagree with a lot of what it points to, but I think it is an important, compelling and detailed contribution to the debate about what exactly happened to Hemant Karkare and his colleagues on November 26, 2008. I think the questions that this text asks need to be answered, and taken on board seriously, (they have to be refuted with seriousness) if justice is to be done. best, Shuddha ----------------- The Mumbai Terror Attacks: Need For A Thorough Investigation By R.H. http://www.countercurrents.org/rh081208.htm 08 December, 2008 In all the confusion and horror generated by the Bombay attacks, the circumstances surrounding the death of Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare and two of his colleagues, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte deserve greater attention. The operations involved well-organised attacks on high-profile sites in Colaba - the Taj, Oberoi and Trident Hotels and Nariman House - and a parallel set of operations targeting Victoria Terminus station, Cama Hospital and the Metro cinema, near the police headquarters where Karkare worked. The latter is an area where foreigners are much less likely to be found. Why is a Proper Investigation Crucial? Prior to his death, Hemant Karkare was unearthing a terror network unlike any that has been seen thus far. The investigation started by tracing the motorcycle used to plant bombs in Malegaon in September 2008 to a Hindu Sadhvi, Pragyasingh Thakur. In a cellphone conversation between Thakur and Ramji, the man who planted the bombs, she asked why more people had not been killed. For the first time, the Indian state was conducting a thorough professional probe into a terror network involving Hindu extremist organisations, this one with huge ramifications, some leading into military and bomb-making training camps and politicised elements in the army, others into organisations and political leaders affiliated to the BJP. One of the most potentially explosive discoveries was that a serving army officer, Lt.Col. Srikant Purohit, had procured 60 kg of RDX from government supplies for use in the terrorist attack on the Samjhauta Express (the India-Pakistan 'Understanding' train) in February 2007, in which 68 people were killed, the majority of them Pakistanis. Initially, militants of Lashkar-e-Taiba and other Islamist terror groups had been accused of carrying out the attack, but no evidence against them had been found. The investigation generated enormous hostility, with allegations (refuted by medical examinations) that the suspects had been tortured and that Karkare was being used as a political tool, and demands that the ATS team should be changed. Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, and BJP Prime Ministerial candidate, L.K.Advani accused him of being a 'desh drohi' or traitor, a charge that in India carries a death penalty, and the Shiv Sena offered legal aid to those accused of the terrorist attack, complaining that 'The government does not save Hindus from terrorists, and if Hindus defend themselves, they are maligned'. In an interview shortly before he died, Karkare admitted he was hurt by the campaign against him. On November 26, just before the terrorist attack, the police in Pune received a call from an anonymous caller saying in Marathi that Karkare would be killed in a bomb blast within two or three days. Just as attitudes to Karkare in society at large were polarised, with some admiring him as a hero - one Maulana went so far as to call him a 'massiha (messiah) of Muslims', an amazing tribute from a Muslim to a Hindu - while others hated him as a traitor worthy of death, attitudes within the police force too were polarised. For example, dismissed encounter specialist Sachin Vaze (who with three colleagues was charged with murder, criminal conspiracy, destruction of evidence and concealment of the dead body in the case of Khwaja Yunus shortly before the terrorist attack) was a member of the Shiv Sena who was actively engaged in the campaign against Karkare and in support of the Malegaon blast accused. Vaze and several other encounter specialists who had been dismissed for corruption, extortion and links with the underworld also had a grudge against Salaskar, whom they suspected of informing on them. Hard Evidence or Pulp Fiction? Given this background, and reports that are riddled with inconsistencies, it is not surprising that many residents of Bombay are asking questions about the exact circumstances of the death of Hemant Karkare and his colleagues. The earliest reports, presumably relayed from the police via the media, said that Karkare had been killed at the Taj, and Salaskar and Kamte at Metro. If this was not true, why were we told this? And why was the story later changed? Was it because it conflicted with eye-witness accounts? In the early hours of the 27th, under the heading 'ATS Chief Hemant Karkare Killed: His Last Pics', IBNlive showed footage first of Karkare putting on a helmet and bullet-proof vest, then cut to a shootout at Metro, where an unconscious man who looks like Karkare and wearing the same light blue shirt and dark trousers (but without any blood on his shirt or the terrible wounds we saw on his face at his funeral) is being pulled into a car by two youths in saffron shirts. The commentary says that Karkare 'could well have fallen prey to just indiscriminate, random firing by the cops', and also reports that there were two vehicles, a Toyota Qualis and Honda City, from which the occupants were firing indiscriminately. Later we were given two accounts of the killings where the venue is shifted to a deserted lane without cameras or eye-witnesses. The first account is by the lone terrorist captured alive, claiming to be A.A.Kasab from Faridkot in Pakistan and a member of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba. According to him, just two gunmen, he and Ismail (also from Pakistan), first attacked VT station, where they sprayed bullets indiscriminately. (Around 58 people were killed there, over one-third of them Muslims, and many more might have been killed if the announcer, Mr Zende, had not risked his life to direct passengers to safety.) They then went to Cama, a government hospital for women and children used mainly by the poor. Initially, according to the police, Kasab claimed he and Ismail had killed Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte. Later, in his confession, he claimed that while coming out of the hospital, he and Ismail saw a police vehicle passing and hid behind a bush; then another vehicle passed them and stopped some distance away. A police officer got out and started firing at them, hitting Kasab on the hand so that he dropped his AK47, but Ismail opened fire on the officers in the car until they stopped firing. There were three bodies in the vehicle, which Ismail removed, and then drove off in it with Kasab. The other account is by police constable Arun Jadhav. According to him, Karkare, Salaskar, Kamte, a driver and four police constables including himself were driving down the alley from VT to the back entrance of Cama (barely a ten-minute drive) in their Toyota Qualis to check on injured police officer Sadanand Date when two gunmen emerged from behind trees by the left side of the road and sprayed the vehicle with bullets, killing all its passengers except Jadhav. They then dragged out the three officers, hijacked the vehicle, drove to Metro junction and then Mantralaya in South Bombay, abandoned it when a tyre burst, and grabbed another car. According to police accounts, they then drove to Girgaum, where Kasab was injured and arrested and his companion killed. These accounts raise more questions than they answer. Kasab claimed that a band of ten terrorists landed and split up into twos, going to various destinations, he and his companion going to VT. He said they wanted to blow up the Taj, as in the attack on the Marriott in Islamabad; yet we are told that only 8kg of RDX were found at the Taj, and even that was not used; contrast this with 600kg of RDX and TNT used to blow up the Marriott: could they really have expected to blow up the Taj? How did the invaders from the sea get one bomb to go off in Dockyard Road and another in Vile Parle, 25 kilometres away? He said that the terrorists planned to use their hostages as a means of escape, yet there was no attempt at any such negotiations; at other times, he also said they had been instructed to fight to the death. He says he is a labourer from Faridkot near Multan and only studied up to Class IV, but it is reported that he speaks fluent English. Several people have pointed out that the pictures of him in VT show him wearing a saffron wrist-band, a Hindu custom, and police later revealed that he could not recite a single verse from the Koran, which any child growing up in a Muslim family would have been able to do. Indeed, a thoughtful article on the soc.culture.jewish group argued that none of the terrorists were Muslims, given their appearance and behaviour (especially their reported consumption of alcohol and drugs), pointing out that they did not need to disguise themselves, since Muslims who look like Muslims are plentiful in Bombay, and would not attract undue attention. During his interrogation, Kasab said that he and eight of the operatives had done a reconnaissance trip to Bombay a few months back, pretending to be students and renting a room at Colaba market, which is close to Nariman House. It is extremely hard for Pakistani nationals to get Indian visas, and they are kept under close surveillance by the police; it is also most unlikely that the Indian immigration authorities would be fooled by forged passports of another country. In that case, the Indian immigration authorities would have visa applications of nine of the terrorists including Kasab, and could match the photographs in them to those of the terrorists: has this been done? Later, Kasab changed his mind and said that the team who carried out reconnaisance was different from the team who had carried out the attacks. The events in VT and Cama and the back lane also put a question mark over his story. According to witnesses, two gunmen started firing at the mainline terminus in VT at 21:55 on Wednesday night, but at precisely the same time, according to CCTV footage, two gunmen began an assault on the suburban terminus. If the first account is true, there were four gunmen at the station: where did the other two come from, and where did they go? We are shown video footage, claiming to be CCTV but without the timeline of normal CCTV footage, of Kasab and Ismail wandering around the parking lot near the mainline terminus. This surely cannot be before the shootout, since the station is completely deserted; and after the shootout, Kasab and Ismail are supposed to have escaped via the footbridge from Platform 1 of the suburban station on the other side of VT: this, again, suggests there were four gunmen. Even if Kasab and Ismail had been shown photographs of Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte before they embarked on their trip, how could they possibly have identified the police officers in a dark alley in the dead of night according to Kasab's first story? According to later his confession, a police officer got out of the vehicle and started firing first, injuring him; how, then, did Ismail manage to kill the rest by himself? Witnesses in Cama hospital say the terrorists spoke fluent Marathi, and this report has been confirmed. The gunmen killed two guards in uniform, spared a third, who was in civilian dress and begged for his life saying he was the husband of a patient, demanded water from an employee in the staff quarters and then killed him. They then appear to have made a beeline for the 6th floor (which was empty) and the terrace, taking with them the liftman, Tikhe. 15-30 minutes later, six to eight policemen arrived, and another employee took them up to the 6th floor. The policemen threw a piece of steel up to the terrace, whereupon Tikhe came running down and told them there were two terrorists on the terrace. A fierce gun-battle ensued for 30 to 45 minutes, in which ACP Sadanand Date was injured. Panic-stricken patients and staff in the maternity ward on the 5th floor barricaded the door; nurses instructed the women to breast-feed their babies to keep them quiet, and one woman, who was in the middle of labour, was told to hold back the birth; but they were not invaded. Eventually the gunmen appear to have escaped, it is not clear how. If they were Kasab and Ismail, then these two must have been fluent Marathi speakers. And why would they have taken up positions on the terrace? Was it because they would have a direct view of the lane in which Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte were later supposedly killed? The other account is equally dubious. In his first account, Jadhav said Karkare was in the second row of the Qualis, while in the second he was supposed to be in the front row with Kamte. In the second account, Salaskar was initially sitting behind the driver, but then asked the driver to slow down and got behind the wheel himself: is it plausible that an experienced encounter specialist would deliberately make himself into a sitting duck like this when they were in hot pursuit of terrorists? In the first account they were supposed to be going to check up on their injured colleague Sadanand Date, but in the second were supposed to be looking for a red car in which they had been told the gunmen were traveling. If the report about the red car was a decoy to lure them into an ambush, it is important to know who told them that the terrorists were in a red car. If the gunmen were firing from the left side, as Jadhav claimed, how was Karkare hit three times in the chest while Jadhav himself got two bullets in his right arm? In fact, the only vegetation in that part of the lane is on the right side and has wire netting around it; it would be necessary to climb over the netting to hide behind it, and climb over again to come out: impossible under the circumstances. Witnesses say only two bodies were found at the spot next morning: what happened to the third officer? Who were the three constables killed? How did two terrorists manage to kill six police personnel, including Karkare and Kamte who he said were armed with AK47s and Salaskar, an encounter specialist, when one terrorist was later captured and the other killed by policemen armed only with two rifles and lathis? Assistant Police Inspector Ombale was killed in that encounter, but his colleagues survived. There was also an intriguing report in DNA on 28 November saying that Anand Raorane, a resident of a building opposite Nariman House, heard sounds of celebration from the terrorists there when the news of Karkare getting killed was flashed on TV: isn't that strange? The same report quoted a resident of Nariman House and a local shopkeeper who said that the terrorists had purchased large quantities of food and liquor before the attack, suggesting that more than two of them were planning to occupy the place for a long time. Another DNA report, on 2 December, said that sub-inspector Durgude, who had been posted in front of St Xavier's College, between Cama Hospital and the exit point of the back lane onto Mahapalika Road, saw two young men whom he took to be students and called out to warn them that there was firing at Cama. When they ignored him, he approached them, upon which one of them turned an AK47 on him and killed him. If Kasab and Ismail were there, who was firing inside Cama? Eye-witnesses in St Xavier's saw a man shot and lying on the pavement in front of the college around 12.30 a.m., while about three gunmen stood over him: who was that? Various reports said that two to eight terrorists were captured alive. Now there is only one in police custody: what happened to the other(s)? A careful scrutiny of all the reports available so far suggests, to this writer anyway, that the killing of Karkare and his colleagues was a premeditated act, executed by a group that had stationed gunmen at various points along the general route between VT and the Metro cinema with a view to maximising their chances of a successful murderous assault. The Objective: Shutting Down Terrorist Networks These are just a few of the numerous questions being asked by vigilant Bombayites who find themselves thoroughly dissatisfied with the information that has been doled out. These are citizens who understand the importance of identifying terrorist networks and shutting them down, but doubt that this will be done by the authorities. Why are they so cynical about the possibility of a genuine professional investigation? The answer is that we have too much bitter experience of investigations in which innocent people (usually Muslim youth) are rounded up, tortured and even killed, while the real culprits are allowed to go free. Karkare broke with this dismal record, but now he is dead. When a person who has been vilified, slandered and threatened with death is killed in suspicious circumstances, it is imperative that a proper investigation should be carried out soon, before too much evidence can be manufactured and/or destroyed. If Kasab aka Iman disappears or is assassinated like Lee Harvey Oswald, or is executed, that would be further evidence of a conspiracy. The government and people of Pakistan have as much interest as the government and people of India in eliminating the terror networks that have killed President Asif Ali Zardari's wife Benazir Bhutto and thousands of others in both Pakistan and India. The terrorists, on the other hand, be they Islamist or Hindutva, have a common interest in destroying secularism, democracy and peace within and between the two countries. That is their precise agenda. Pakistani politicians have offered a joint investigation into the terrorist attacks, a far more sensible suggestion than the belligerent statements by some Indians accusing Pakistan of harbouring terrorists who are killing Indians. It should be obvious that a military conflict between India and Pakistan would be disastrous for both countries economically, while a nuclear war, which might ensue if extremist forces captured power in both countries, would have unthinkable consequences. If the Indo-Pakistan peace process is halted, as L.K.Advani advocates, the terrorists would have won. Indeed, without a joint investigation, the terrorist networks behind this outrage can never be uncovered: how else could the names and addresses in Pakistan revealed by Kasab be followed up to the satisfaction of all parties? A team of Pakistani investigators should be invited to come to Bombay and interview Kasab. If he is indeed a Lashkar-e-Taiba militant, he will be able to provide invaluable information, and a team of investigators from India should be invited to Pakistan to pursue the investigation there. If, as some reports have indicated, he is not what he claims to be, that too would become clear. The Indian government owes it to the memory of Karkare, Salaskar and Kamte, who died fighting terrorism of all hues, to establish exactly where, when and how they were killed, identify their killers, and make sure that their work is continued. They also owe it to us, the public, who are the prime targets of all terrorist attacks, to carry out a credible investigation which identifies and puts behind bars all the mass murderers involved in this and other attacks. The Spirit of Bombay Survives Despite all the hype, this was not the worst terrorist attack in Bombay; that title goes to the reign of terror which started it all, the anti-Muslim pogrom following the demolition of the Babri masjid in December 1992, in which over 900 people were killed. After each attack, the residents of Bombay have worked hard to restore the inclusiveness and warmth which characterises their city, and this was no exception. On 10 December, exactly two weeks after the attack began, women's groups perambulated the whole of VT station with a single slogan: jang nahin, aman chahiye (no to war, we want peace). A few people contradicted them, but the majority accepted or even asked for leaflets. On 12 December, over 60,000 people from all walks of life formed a human chain throughout the length and breadth of Bombay, proclaiming unity and peace in opposition to terrorism, war, communalism and violence. In a TV interview, a group of very articulate schoolgirls, carrying placards with slogans like 'Love Conquers All,' expressed their determination to stay united and unafraid in the face of all efforts to divide the people of India. The spirit of Bombay lives on, thanks to these people. R.H. is a writer, researcher and social activist based in Bombay On 20-Dec-08, at 2:20 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Fatima > > Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an > intemperate comment directed at you over your > "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting. > > Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that > you do not want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have > done exactly the opposite. > > On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have > this doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of > the Muslims of India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim? > > Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given > atmosphere post Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by > Pakistanis. Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy > voice for those Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the > Pakistani connection to the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the > proxy voice for those Pakistanis who want to divert the attention > away from the Pakistani connection to the Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position > unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately. > > Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress > partyman. He could always have discussed the "suspicions about > Karkare's death" internally withing the Party / Government. Both > would have been more than keen to enquire into or exploit that > suspicion at the appropiate time since it would mean discrediting / > attacking the Hindutvavaadis. > > You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim > divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. > > You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking > the same questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith > Muslims might not be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might > think that thia is not the point of time when such questions should > be asked on the basis of some vague 'conspiracy theory'. > > Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you): > > """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great > vehemence ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's > investigations into the involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the > Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural that Karkare's killing (with a > bullet-proof vest donned) should not only raise a few eybrows but > bring into the arena questions about whether he was eliminated by > "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, might be > without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but > such suspicions are not illogical. """" > > Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that > dramatic statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List. > > I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus > Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा > wrote: > > From: Fatima फ़ातिमा > Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > To: "Reader-list" > Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM > > Dear friends > I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me > think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all > including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a > majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does > not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything > to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering > if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same > question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? > > Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" > > > From: "zohra javed" > To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com > > A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS > Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak > from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though > for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially > into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were > killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point > and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the > issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this > point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his > party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe > into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of > sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much > appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice > rather than accepting a political charity. > Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the > Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I > wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit > to begin with. It is very important to understand that > laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of > the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter > to make election issues out of them or score political and social > points. Indeed that political party is best which can > implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double > standards. > The common people have time and again proved their innocence and > smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every > time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up > beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical > is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either > foolish or a traitor. > Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". > Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true > answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the > time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. > > And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as > anti-national. > Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. > Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many > blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our > investigating agencies, media and the political parties do > not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many > loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put > forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more > thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there > was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection > with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he > allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". > > If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and > integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the > common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers > in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for > one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the > common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay > said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi > loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could > even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks > cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his > community. > > The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we > supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders > rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, > are really true to their religion? Can there at all be > any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on > earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the > "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a > person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a > pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every > detail into account before coming to conclusions as we > must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an > unbiased probe into the "business of terror". > > Zohra Javed > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 20:25:33 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:55:33 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Defensive_measures_alone_won=27t_suf?= =?iso-8859-1?q?fice_=28The_Hindu=29?= Message-ID: Defensive measures alone won't suffice Brahma Chellaney Defensive measures can be meaningful only if they are accompanied by a proactive component that entails going after the terrorists before they strike. For nearly a millennium, India was repeatedly invaded, raped and subjugated by those who came primarily to plunder its wealth, with some staying on to rule by conquest. Now again, raiders from the northwest are repeatedly assaulting India, not to cart away its riches but to undermine its rising economic strength after a long historical period of humiliation. That is why India's commercial capital has been repeatedly attacked by the raiders, who have chosen their targets there carefully - from the stock exchange and financial institutions in 1993 and city trains in 2006 to its landmark luxury hotels in 2008. Magnet for terrorists That India is an island of stability, economic growth and democratic empowerment in a sea of turbulence stretching from Jordan to Malaysia also makes it a magnet for terrorists from a particular quasi-failed state that seems intent on taking India down with it as it sinks. Such is the tyranny of geography that India is wedged in an arc of failing or authoritarian states that try, in different ways, to undermine its secular, multiethnic, pluralistic character. Pakistan-based jihadist groups are now carrying out increasingly daring assaults deep across the border. Compounding that threat is the fact that Pakistan is not a normal state but the world's terroristan. For the foreseeable future, it will remain the epicentre of global terrorism, with India bearing the brunt. The big question thus is whether India will keep running to the U.S. for help and sympathy after each terror attack - despite a growing congruence of Indo-American interests - or wage its own fight in a credible, coherent and deterrent fashion. India has been too interested in collecting and presenting evidence of Pakistan's terror links to the outside world than in initiating its own steps to effectively combat terrorism. Stemming terrorism demands at least four different elements - a well-thought-out strategy, effective state instruments to implement that strategy, a credible legal framework to speedily bring terrorists to justice, and unflinching political resolve to stay the course. India, unfortunately, is deficient on all four. It has no published counter-terror doctrine. Furthermore, not only is there no political will, the Indian system has also become so effete that the state instruments are unable to deliver results even on the odd occasion when the leadership displays a spine to act. Nowhere is India's frailty more apparent today than on internal security, which historically has been its Achilles heel. If the government did one thing right during the Mumbai terrorist attacks, it was to stick to its newly declared doctrine foreswearing negotiations with hostage-takers. By ordering commando assaults on the terrorists holed up in Mumbai's two luxury hotels and Jewish Centre, the government denied them and their sponsors the opportunity to help focus international spotlight on a plethora of demands - from the release of "mujahideen" from Indian jails to some Kashmir-related ultimatum. That commendable decision, more importantly, spared the country the humiliation of being held hostage for days on end. Terrorists surprised The frontal commando storming of the besieged sites took the terrorists by surprise and forced them to defend themselves, thus helping limit the number of fatalities. Otherwise, the four terrorists in the Taj hotel, for example, would have killed far more than the 32 people they did, many in the initial minutes of their attack. Despite the considerable and extended investments that went into training the attackers, including in imparting military-style amphibious assault skills, the terrorist operation did not go as well as had been plotted by the Pakistan-based masterminds. The capture alive of one of the suicide attackers also helped unravel the plot. More broadly, one problem is that India is always trying to prevent a repeat of the last attack rather than seeking to forestall the next innovative strike. Almost every major terrorist strike against an Indian target since the 1985 midair bombing of the Air-India Kanishka jetliner has involved novel methodology. The likelihood of a repeat attack by terrorists arriving on inflatable dinghies and striking luxury hotels is thus close to zero. Yet, in a manner akin to closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted, security cordons now ring luxury hotels and resources are being invested in setting up a coastal command. It is the refusal to think ahead and try and anticipate how and where terrorists would strike next that results in India being taken by surprise again and again. The aim should be to stay at least a few steps ahead of the terrorists, rather than to prevent the last type of attack through beefed-up security. Heavy security at hotels, railway stations, high-rise buildings, malls, etc., will still leave open other targets for innovative terrorist strikes but help portray the country as beleaguered. Make no mistake: Improved maritime patrols, better police training and preparedness, a new federal agency for investigations, regional commando commands and intelligence revamp - although necessary - are all defensive measures. However well designed and put into practice, such steps by themselves cannot stop terrorist strikes. Yet, in the aftermath of the Mumbai strikes, the government is overly focussing on such defensive mechanisms. The proposed National Investigative Agency and a strengthened Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act seek to plug some glaring weaknesses. But in a country where, despite the rising incidence of terrorism, not a single terror-related case has been successfully prosecuted in many years other than the one involving the attack on Parliament, the setting up of a new agency can hardly bring much cheer. Also, it doesn't show India's leaders in good light that more than 15 years after investigators established clear links between Dawood Ibrahim and the 2003 serial bombings in Mumbai, they do little more than periodically complain that he remains ensconced in Pakistan. Worse, terrorism has been treated as a law-and-order issue requiring more policing, training and hardware. To regard terrorism as a law-and-order problem is to do what the terrorists want - to sap your strength. No amount of security can stop terrorism if the nation is reluctant to go after terrorist cells and networks and those that harbour extremists. Against an invisible enemy, defensive mechanisms can only have limited utility. To stay a sitting duck against the sly, murderous extremists is to risk not only the lives of innocent people, but also cause political and psychological damage to the national psyche. Go after them Defensive measures, in any event, can be meaningful only if they are accompanied by a proactive component that entails going after the terrorists before they strike. That means, among other things, hounding, disrupting and smashing their cells, networks and safe havens; destroying their local network; cutting off their funding; and imposing deterrent costs (through overt or covert means) on those that promote, finance or tolerate terrorist activity. Merely to step up defensive measures and build higher fences and VVIP security is to play into the terrorists' designs to bring India under a terrorist siege. The more India has been terrorised in recent years, the more it has betrayed a siege mentality. Every time India is tested by terror, it characteristically responds by talking tough but doing nothing - the trait of a battered victim. For India, terrorism is an existential battle that will determine whether it stays a free, secular, united state. India's counteraction has to be at multiple levels: domestic policy (formulating a credible counter-terror strategy); legal (forming a political consensus in support of special laws that carry adequate safeguards); law enforcement (identifying and destroying terrorist sleeper cells in cities); intelligence (building assets so as to operate behind "enemy" lines and target a particular car, cell or haven at an opportune moment); strategic (keeping terrorist patrons on tenterhooks); deterrent (imposing calibrated costs on the masterminds); and public relations. It is odd, for example, that sections of the foreign media continue to misleadingly label the predominantly Punjabi Laskar-e-Taiba as a "Kashmiri separatist group" without New Delhi mounting any effort to make such news organisations face up to simple facts. Against external sponsors of terror, a range of discreet options are available to India, including diplomatic, economic and political. Between the two extremes - inaction and military action - lie a hundred different options. These are options that no nation discusses in public. Rather they must be weighed in private and exercised quietly. The key point is that terrorism cannot be fought as a law-and-order problem. The only way to stem that scourge is to develop a concerted, comprehensive approach that blends different elements into a single, pointed, sustained campaign. To fight the unconventional war being waged against it, India perforce needs to employ a range of unconventional tools to strike at the heart of terrorist networks and disrupt their cohesion, operational capacity and logistic support. (The writer is professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi.) From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 20:46:55 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:46:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra Thanks for defending me earlier. I still did not say that I believe in the conspiracy theory. My contention simply was that things are not so black-and-white as they are being made so. In any case, Antulay also said "Of course Karkare was killed by the terrorists - even a fool knows that... but there is ...a terrorism plus something". We all know that the terrorists came from Pakistan, and Karkare was in any case on their hit-list. But some people are also saying that with his murder, there has been a major setback to the investigation in the Malegaon blast accused case, which is rather sad. And the BJP-family has certainly gained out of it. When I said many Muslims believe in the conspiracy theory, there maybe some truth in it - you have to come to a Muslim dominated area and talk to some people to know what I am talking about. But once again, having doubts and conspiracies doesn't prove that they are anti-national. I am sure they are also pained by the death of so many innocent people (and many who died in Mumbai were Muslim), but there is some uneasiness about accepting the lead story as truth. This also doesn't mean a denial-mode, but its simply an insecurity that has set in in the community. No one should believe anything as truth until and unless things have been probed properly. I think even Shuddha is saying the same thing. (I wonder if you would call him too anti-India). When we talk about a probe, most assumptions and investigations start with DOUBTS. But why does one have to take doubt as a sign of anti-nationalism. At the moment we are all bathing in a sea of euphoric patriotism, and cannot tolerate any DOUBT. But yes, as Shuddha says, one has to be careful and cautious about what one says and doesn't say. So I guess I should keep quite even I have doubts in mind, since I have to prove my affiliation to the nation. Fatima On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Fatima > > Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an intemperate > comment directed at you over your "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting. > > Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that you do not > want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have done exactly the > opposite. > > On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have this > doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of the Muslims of > India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim? > > Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given atmosphere > post Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by Pakistanis. > Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy voice for those > Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the Pakistani connection to > the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the proxy voice for those Pakistanis > who want to divert the attention away from the Pakistani connection to the > Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position > unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately. > > Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress partyman. He > could always have discussed the "suspicions about Karkare's death" > internally withing the Party / Government. Both would have been more than > keen to enquire into or exploit that suspicion at the appropiate time since > it would mean discrediting / attacking the Hindutvavaadis. > > You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. That > makes your motives Anti-India. > > You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking the same > questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith Muslims might not > be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might think that thia is not the > point of time when such questions should be asked on the basis of some vague > 'conspiracy theory'. > > Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you): > > """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence > ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into the > involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural > that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only > raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he was > eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, > might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but > such suspicions are not illogical. """" > > Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that dramatic > statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List. > > I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus > Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: > > From: Fatima फ़ातिमा > Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > To: "Reader-list" > Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM > > Dear friends > I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me > think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all > including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a > majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does > not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything > to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering > if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same > question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? > > Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" > > > From: "zohra javed" > To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com > > A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS > Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak > from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though > for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially > into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were > killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point > and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the > issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this > point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his > party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe > into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of > sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much > appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice > rather than accepting a political charity. > Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the > Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I > wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit > to begin with. It is very important to understand that > laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of > the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter > to make election issues out of them or score political and social > points. Indeed that political party is best which can > implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double > standards. > The common people have time and again proved their innocence and > smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every > time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up > beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical > is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either > foolish or a traitor. > Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". > Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true > answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the > time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. > > And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as > anti-national. > Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. > Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many > blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our > investigating agencies, media and the political parties do > not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many > loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put > forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more > thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there > was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection > with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he > allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". > > If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and > integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the > common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers > in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for > one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the > common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay > said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi > loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could > even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks > cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his > community. > > The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we > supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders > rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, > are really true to their religion? Can there at all be > any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on > earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the > "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a > person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a > pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every > detail into account before coming to conclusions as we > must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an > unbiased probe into the "business of terror". > > Zohra Javed > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 20:58:10 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:58:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Antulay's theory finds many takers Message-ID: Sorry for bombarding your mailbox with many messages on this subject. But this is the last one. Antulay's theory finds many takers 20 Dec 2008, 0531 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: Minority affairs minister A R Antulay might have deeply embarrassed his own party but the throng of the faithful that welcomed him at a mosque near Parliament where he went to offer afternoon prayers reflected a groundswell of support in his community. Antulay's stand on Mumbai anti-terrorism squad chief Hemant Karkare's killing — that it was linked to the officer investigating Hindu radicals accused in the Malegaon case — has earned him the overwhelming support of opinion-makers in the Muslim community who feel that the concerns are valid. Muslim organisations and members of Parliament have pointed a finger of suspicion at the "mysterious circumstances" under which Karkare and his two other officers — Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar — were killed just when the ATS was making sensational disclosures regarding the alleged involvement of Hindu extremist outfits in the Malegaon blast case. JD(U) MP Ejaz Ali said the question raised by the minister was a timely one. "The circumstances around Hemant Karkare's death are suspicious. He was getting threats to his life and his wife has refused compensation offered to her. We demand a probe by the CBI or a joint parliamentary committee on the issue," he said. The MP added that national interest must be given precedence over religious and political concerns. Similar reservations on Karkare's killing were raised by Mohammed Adeeb, independent member of the Rajya Sabha from UP who felt the "sudden" deaths of the three officers were on everyone's mind. "It is a question that should not be politicised," he said. At pains to disassociate himself from the Congress, Adeeb said he was neither an admirer of the Congress party nor Antulay. "People with secular credentials have wanted to know about this (the circumstances around Karkare's death). I don't understand what the fuss is all about? This is a democracy and we have every right to ask for a probe," he said. Jamiat-e-Islami-Hind president Jalal Umri alleged that the government was trying to brush the issue under the carpet. "Up till the Malegaon probe, only Muslim names were being named in every blast as suspects. But after the ATS investigation, things that we had suspected for long since the Nagpur blasts would have been backed by hard evidence finally," he said. Umri added that Antulay was not wrong but to condemn him was wrong. All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat (AIMMM) said it was relevant to note that no demands had been made by terrorists. "It was as if the terrorists had intended to kill the three and they accomplished this," Zafarul Islam Khan, AIMMM president, said. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 21:40:39 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:10:39 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? References: Message-ID: <925CF315D93748D5A9FE27C487A5E201@tara> Hi Fatima. I can understand that. Most of us have no regard for politicians but when they say things which we want to hear, they do make think us a lot. For sometime the voices of the liberal Muslims were getting stronger and stronger. Of course those who have made a business of dividing the country on communal lines were feeling marginalized. A large conference declared terrorrism anti-Islamic. The Hindutva supporters thought this is not how the majority of Muslims think; they are supporters of Jihad. Muslim Council of India refused to burry the the terrorists in their graveyard as they considered such inhuman barbarians cannot be Muslims. Some people agreed with them. Others again thought it as a sham of a community that always was after the nonmuslim blood. Yet others, probably including the person whose mail you forwarded, linked it to the conspiracy theories, meaning the council believes that they were not Muslims, but Hindus, Jews or Christians. But the prominent voices in the Muslim communities were refusing to fall in to the trap of the conspiracy theories. They were getting out of hands of the divisive powers. Their votes can be better controlled, if they keep considering themselves first as Muslims and then anything else. That kind of othering would help all the politicians. So the reigning in was necessary. And there goes the senior member, cabinet minister, minority minister of the divisive parties of this country. It was safe to speak now and not earlier as the previous administration had not resigned. Once the chief minister and his deputy were gone, the suspicion would not look like suspecting the congress government. It is suspecting those who had become irrelevant and it was started by somebody who would become irrelevant if he did not raise this issue. The old Antule was not likely to get a ticket from Congress party which was supposedly focusing on the young blood. He is very likely to remain in the fray. If he doesn't contest for Congress, he will join some other party. He might start a new party, Muslim Nationalist party, to win back the Muslims who feel cheated by all the political parties. Only to form the government with Congress as a UPA ally. All this drama is possibly going to happen because Antule said not what a lot of people are hearing. The mail you forwarded seems to suggest that Antule believes in the conspiracy theories about the Mumbai terror attacks as propounded by a lot of Muslims throughout the world. He is just saying that some people took the opportunity of having Karkare murdered in the shadow of the terror attack. Such conspiracy was also suspected when the officer who conducted probe in parliament attack case was shot during Jamia encounter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fatima फ़ातिमा" To: "Reader-list" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 2:10 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > Dear friends > I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me > think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all > including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a > majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does > not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything > to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering > if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same > question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? > > Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" > > > From: "zohra javed" > To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com > > A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS > Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak > from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though > for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially > into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were > killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point > and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the > issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this > point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his > party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe > into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of > sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much > appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice > rather than accepting a political charity. > Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the > Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I > wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit > to begin with. It is very important to understand that > laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of > the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter > to make election issues out of them or score political and social > points. Indeed that political party is best which can > implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double > standards. > The common people have time and again proved their innocence and > smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every > time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up > beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical > is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either > foolish or a traitor. > Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". > Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true > answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the > time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. > > And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as > anti-national. > Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. > Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many > blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our > investigating agencies, media and the political parties do > not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many > loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put > forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more > thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there > was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection > with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he > allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". > > If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and > integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the > common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers > in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for > one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the > common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay > said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi > loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could > even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks > cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his > community. > > The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we > supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders > rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, > are really true to their religion? Can there at all be > any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on > earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the > "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a > person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a > pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every > detail into account before coming to conclusions as we > must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an > unbiased probe into the "business of terror". > > Zohra Javed > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From info at fondation-langlois.org Wed Dec 17 22:09:57 2008 From: info at fondation-langlois.org (Fondation Daniel Langlois) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:39:57 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News from the Daniel Langlois Foundation Message-ID: <2ee4c5a1997c1869cb2760dd001756e0@fondation-langlois.org> The Giver of Names : Documentary Collection In late 2007, Caitlin Jones and Lizzie Muller were awarded research residencies at the Daniel Langlois Foundation Centre for Research and Documentation (CR+D) to explore ways of documenting digital media artworks. These research projects focused on the exhibition e-art, New Technologies and Contemporary Art at the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts, and more specifically, the installation The Giver of Names by David Rokeby. Caitlin Jones' research objective was to examine a number of existing models of documentation with an emphasis on artist's intent. Lizzie Muller's original research objective was to find ways to document and archive the audience's descriptions of their experiences. The combined results of these two studies are now available in the form of a documentary collection containing interviews, technical and audiovisual documentation on The Giver of Names, as well as essays on the methodology and the research issues of the two researchers: http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?Lstsrv=200812&NumPage=2121 From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 15:40:53 2008 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:40:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma In-Reply-To: References: <564b2fca0812170157v62bcb262ndc556b229da9c51c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <564b2fca0812180210l4e533e52u71404e69096bfde8@mail.gmail.com> I think there is a certain kind of essentializing in the that statement of Hoodbhoy. The killings in VT railway station were untargetted and random but much less attention has been given to them for obvious class biases that have much discussed. This equating of the Mumbai attack - horrific and condemnable as it is - with an attack on the nation - the latest to do so was Sachin Tendulkar - is so unnecessary and problematic. What is the nation, and who comprises it? Direct violence is an attack sure, but what about silent processes at work in an everyday sense? For instance, what about the millions of people who have been pushed into poverty and malnutrition by rising food prices in recent months? Is that not an attack on the nation? What about the higher prices because business and elites want to divert land from basic food to biofuels so cars can continue running. Is that not an attack? The monumental crisis that agriculture has been pushed into - of which the 1.8 lakh suicides that Sainath wroite about a few days ago is merely a reflection - that is not an attack is it? This isn't directed at you Taraprakash, just venting my spleen. But we just need to puncture this dominant discourse of 'nation' and bring people back to the focus. Naga On 17/12/2008, taraprakash wrote: > > Thanks for forwarding the piece by Mr. Hoodbhoy. The other pieces have been > circulated on the list several times already. I think Hoodbhoy > unintentionally ignores high number of Hindus who were killed in the attack > when he says following about Mumbai attacks: "The goal was to kill > foreigners, particularly Jews and Americans, although Muslims were also > collateral casualties." > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nagraj Adve" > To: "Sarai" > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:57 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. > Hoodbhoy,A. Patwardhan, Hari Sharma > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: SANSAD >> Date: 17 Dec 2008 08:22 >> Subject: Mumbai under assault: Arundhati Roy, P. Hoodbhoy, A. Patwardhan, >> Hari Sharma >> To: List Suppressed >> >> Dear friends: >> >> >> The Mumbai dust has not settled yet. National jingoism and war cries are >> keeping it afloat and churning. Sonia Gandhi has promised tougher >> anti-terrorism laws, as if that would eliminate the underlying causes of >> terrorism. The RSS Chief is calling for nuking Pakistan; and maybe, a >> Third >> World War, to "cleanse the world of evil". >> >> >> But other voices are also coming in large measures, from around the world >> and from both sides of the India-Pakistan divide. >> >> >> We forward to you, first, a piece by Arundhati Roy, "The Monster in the >> Mirror". There are phrases and labels in it I disagree with, but it is, >> once >> again, a charateristic Arundhati Roy piece. Profoundly perceptive, >> passionate, concerned and alarmed. Its poetry gives body to its prose. >> Thank >> you, Arundhati. >> >> >> The second piece is from the other side of the border. the noted Nuclear >> Physicist, the peace activist, the never-tiring good voice of the people >> of >> Pakistan, Parvez Hoodbhoy. >> >> >> Then, there is a piece by the celebrated film-maker Anand Patwardhan. >> Times >> of India refused to publish this excellent article; that's all the more >> reason for us to disseminate it. >> >> >> And finally, there is a link for a podcast of a radio interview I had >> locally in Vancouver, on December 6, the anniversary of the Babri Masjid >> demolition. >> >> >> hari sharma >> for SANSAD >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 1/4 >> *The monster in the mirror* >> >> *The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed >> 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including >> an >> attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with >> justice, >> or face civil war*. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - [image: static.guim.co.uk/7F9E2D96.jpg] >> >> >> >> - >> Arundhati >> Roy >> >> - guardian.co.uk , Saturday 13 December 2008 >> 00.01 GMT >> - Article history< >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/12/mumbai-arundhati-roy#history-byline >> > >> >> >> [image: >> static.guim.co.uk/1216CB21.jpg] >> >> >> >> Azam Amir Kasab, the face of the Mumbai attacks. Photograph: Reuters >> >> >> >> >> >> >> We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai >> raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us >> that >> we were watching "India's 9/11". Like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an >> old Hollywood film, we're expected to play our parts and say our lines, >> even >> though we know it's all been said and done before. >> >> >> As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has warned >> Pakistan >> that if it didn't act fast to arrest the "Bad Guys" he had personal >> information that India would launch air strikes on "terrorist camps" in >> Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai was India's >> 9/11. >> >> >> But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, Pakistan isn't Afghanistan >> and India isn't America. So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick >> through the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so that >> we >> can arrive at our own conclusions. >> >> >> It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of people in Kashmir >> supervised by thousands of Indian troops lined up to cast their vote, >> while >> the richest quarters of India's richest city ended up looking like >> war-torn >> Kupwara - one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. >> >> >> The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of terrorist >> attacks >> on Indian towns and cities this year. Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, >> Guwahati, >> Jaipur and Malegaon have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of >> ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police are right >> about >> the people they have arrested as suspects, both Hindu and Muslim, all >> Indian >> nationals, it obviously indicates that something's going very badly wrong >> in >> this country. >> >> >> If you were watching television you may not have heard that ordinary >> people >> too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in a busy railway station and a >> public hospital. The terrorists did not distinguish between poor and rich. >> They killed both with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, >> was >> transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the glittering >> barricades of India Shining and spread its stench in the marbled lobbies >> and >> crystal ballrooms of two incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish >> centre. >> >> >> We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of Mumbai. That's >> absolutely true. It's an icon of the easy, obscene injustice that ordinary >> Indians endure every day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving >> obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they had stayed in, >> the >> gourmet restaurants they loved (ironically one was called Kandahar), and >> the >> staff who served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner in the >> inner >> pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a pizza company I think) said >> "Hungry,* kya*?" (Hungry eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm >> sure, informed its readers that on the international hunger index, India >> ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this isn't* that* war. That >> one's still being fought in the Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks >> of the Narmada and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; >> in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, >> Lalgarh in West Bengal and the slums and shantytowns of our gigantic >> cities. >> >> >> That war isn't on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal >> with >> the one that is. >> >> >> There is a fierce, unforgiving fault-line that runs through the >> contemporary >> discourse on terrorism. On one side (let's call it Side A) are those who >> see >> terrorism, especially "Islamist" terrorism, as a hateful, insane scourge >> that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit and has nothing to do with >> the >> world around it, nothing to do with history, geography or economics. >> Therefore, Side A says, to try and place it in a political context, or >> even >> try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a crime in itself. >> >> >> Side B believes that though nothing can ever excuse or justify terrorism, >> it >> exists in a particular time, place and political context, and to refuse to >> see that will only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in >> harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. >> >> >> The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the >> Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline Salafi tradition of Islam, >> certainly bolsters the case of Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide >> bombing, hates Jews, Shias and Democracy and believes that jihad should be >> waged until Islam,* his* Islam, rules the world. Among the things he said >> are: "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. Cut them, cut >> them so much that they kneel before you and ask for mercy." >> >> >> And: "India has shown us this path. We would like to give India a >> tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the same way by killing the >> Hindus, >> just like it is killing the Muslims in Kashmir." >> >> >> But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu Bajrangi of >> Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a democrat, not a terrorist? He was >> one of the major lynchpins of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on >> camera): "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set everything on fire >> Š >> we hacked, burned, set on fire Š we believe in setting them on fire >> because >> these bastards don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it Š I have >> just >> one last wish Š let me be sentenced to death Š I don't care if I'm hanged >> ... just give me two days before my hanging and I will go and have a field >> day in Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs [seven or eight hundred >> thousand] >> of these people stay ... I will finish them off Š let a few more of them >> die >> ... at least 25,000 to 50,000 should die." >> >> >> And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place the Rashtriya >> Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or, Our Nationhood Defined by MS Golwalkar, >> who >> became head of the RSS in 1944. It says: "Ever since that evil day, when >> Moslems first landed in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the >> Hindu >> Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these despoilers. The >> Race >> Spirit has been awakening." >> Or: "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, Germany shocked the >> world by her purging the country of the Semitic races - the Jews. Race >> pride >> at its highest has been manifested here ... a good lesson for us in >> Hindustan to learn and profit by." >> >> >> (Of course Muslims are not the only people in the gun sights of the Hindu >> right. Dalits have been consistently targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in >> Orissa, Christians were the target of two and a half months of violence >> which left more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven from >> their homes, half of who now live in refugee camps.) >> >> >> All these years Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a respectable man in >> Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud Daawa, which many believe is a front >> organization for the Lashkar-e-Taiba. He continues to recruit young boys >> for >> his own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On December 11 the >> UN >> imposed sanctions on the Jammat-ud-Daawa. The Pakistani government >> succumbed >> to international pressure and put Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu >> Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and lives the life of a respectable man >> in >> Gujarat. A couple of years after the genocide he left the VHP to join the >> Shiv Sena. Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the chief >> minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the Gujarat genocide was >> re-elected twice, and is deeply respected by India's biggest corporate >> houses, Reliance and Tata. >> >> >> Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate spokesperson, recently said: >> "Modi >> is God." The policemen who supervised and sometimes even assisted the >> rampaging Hindu mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted. The RSS >> has >> 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and 7 million volunteers >> preaching its doctrine of hate across India. They include Narendra Modi, >> but >> also former prime minister AB Vajpayee, current leader of the opposition >> LK >> Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, bureaucrats and police and >> intelligence officers. >> >> >> If that's not enough to complicate our picture of secular democracy, we >> should place on record that there are plenty of Muslim organisations >> within >> India preaching their own narrow bigotry. >> >> >> So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side B, I'd pick >> Side >> B. We need context. Always. >> >> >> In this nuclear subcontinent that context is partition. The Radcliffe >> Line, >> which separated India and Pakistan and tore through states, districts, >> villages, fields, communities, water systems, homes and families, was >> drawn >> virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting kick to us. Partition >> triggered the massacre of more than a million people and the largest >> migration of a human population in contemporary history. Eight million >> people, Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing the new* kind* of >> India left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. >> >> >> Each of those people carries and passes down a story of unimaginable pain, >> hate, horror but yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered >> muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us together in a >> close embrace of hatred, terrifying familiarity but also love. It has left >> Kashmir trapped in a nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a >> nightmare that has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of >> the >> Pure, became an Islamic Republic, and then, very quickly a corrupt, >> violent >> military state, openly intolerant of other faiths. India on the other hand >> declared herself an inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent >> undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been hard at work since >> the 1920s, dripping poison into India's bloodstream, undermining that idea >> of India even before it was born. >> >> >> By 1990 they were ready to make a bid for power. In 1992 Hindu mobs >> exhorted >> by LK Advani stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998 the BJP >> was >> in power at the centre. The US war on terror put the wind in their sails. >> It >> allowed them to do exactly as they pleased, even to commit genocide and >> then >> present their fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This >> happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to international >> finance and it was in the interests of international corporations and the >> media houses they owned to project it as a country that could do no wrong. >> That gave Hindu nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they needed. >> >> >> This, then, is the larger historical context of terrorism in the >> subcontinent and of the Mumbai attacks. It shouldn't surprise us that >> Hafiz >> Saeed of the Lashkar-e-Taiba is from Shimla (India) and LK Advani of the >> Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). >> >> >> In much the same way as it did after the 2001 parliament attack, the 2002 >> burning of the Sabarmati Express and the 2007 bombing of the Samjhauta >> Express, the government of India announced that it has "incontrovertible" >> evidence that the Lashkar-e-Taiba backed by Pakistan's ISI was behind the >> Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied involvement, but remains the prime >> accused. According to the police and intelligence agencies the Lashkar >> operates in India through an organisation called the Indian Mujahideen. >> Two >> Indian nationals, Sheikh Mukhtar Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working >> for >> the Jammu and Kashmir police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata in >> West Bengal, have been arrested in connection with the Mumbai attacks. >> >> >> So already the neat accusation against Pakistan is getting a little messy. >> Almost always, when these stories unspool, they reveal a complicated >> global >> network of foot soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and undercover >> intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives working not just on both >> sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in several countries >> simultaneously. >> In today's world, trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike >> and isolate it within the borders of a single nation state is very much >> like >> trying to pin down the provenance of corporate money. It's almost >> impossible. >> >> >> In circumstances like these, air strikes to "take out" terrorist camps may >> take out the camps, but certainly will not "take out" the terrorists. >> Neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high ground, let's try >> not >> to forget that the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of >> neighbouring Sri Lanka, one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, >> were trained by the Indian army.) >> >> >> Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as America's ally first >> in >> its war in* support* of the Afghan Islamists and then in its war* >> against*them, Pakistan, whose territory is reeling under these >> contradictions, is >> careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for America's jihad >> against the Soviet Union, it was the job of the Pakistan army and the ISI >> to >> nurture and channel funds to Islamic fundamentalist organizations. Having >> wired up these Frankensteins and released them into the world, the US >> expected it could rein them in like pet mastiffs whenever it wanted to. >> >> >> Certainly it did not expect them to come calling in heart of the Homeland >> on >> September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently remade. Now >> the >> debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has washed up on Pakistan's borders. >> Nobody, least of all the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding >> over a country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist training >> camps, >> the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs who believe that Islam will, or >> should, rule the world is mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their >> ire >> rains down on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, if >> not more than it does on India. >> >> >> If at this point India decides to go to war perhaps the descent of the >> whole >> region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a bankrupt, destroyed >> Pakistan will wash up on India's shores, endangering us as never before. >> If >> Pakistan collapses, we can look forward to having millions of "non-state >> actors" with an arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal as >> neighbours. >> It's hard to understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen to >> replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon this country >> by*inviting >> * the United States to further meddle clumsily and dangerously in our >> extremely complicated affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has >> agents. >> >> >> On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that it's the best way >> for India to avoid facing up to the serious trouble building on our home >> front. The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on all or >> most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows how many international >> ones. TV anchors in their studios and journalists at "ground zero" kept up >> an endless stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three nights >> we >> watched in disbelief as a small group of very young men armed with guns >> and >> gadgets exposed the powerlessness of the police, the elite National >> Security >> Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, nuclear-powered >> nation. >> >> >> While they did this they indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in >> railway stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their class, >> caste, religion or nationality. (Part of the helplessness of the security >> forces had to do with having to worry about hostages. In other situations, >> in Kashmir for example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole >> buildings >> are blown up. Human shields are used. The U.S and Israeli armies don't >> hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop daisy cutters on >> wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan.) But this was >> different. >> And it was on TV. >> >> >> The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to kill - and be killed - >> mesmerised their international audience. They delivered something >> different >> from the usual diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people >> have >> grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. Die Hard 25. The >> gruesome performance went on and on. TV ratings soared. Ask any television >> magnate or corporate advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, >> not >> minutes, what that's worth. >> >> >> Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. (Perhaps, in the >> chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) Throughout the standoff the >> terrorists made no demands and expressed no desire to negotiate. Their >> purpose was to kill people and inflict as much damage as they could before >> they were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. When we >> say >> "nothing can justify terrorism", what most of us mean is that nothing can >> justify the taking of human life. We say this because we respect life, >> because we think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who care >> nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that we have no idea >> what >> to make of them, because we can sense that even before they've died, >> they've >> journeyed to another world where we cannot reach them. >> >> >> One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation with one of the >> attackers, who called himself Imran Babar. I cannot vouch for the veracity >> of the conversation, but the things he talked about were the things >> contained in the "terror emails" that were sent out before several other >> bomb attacks in India. Things we don't want to talk about any more: the >> demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims >> in Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. "You're surrounded," >> the anchor told him. "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you >> surrender?" >> >> >> "We die every day," he replied in a strange, mechanical way. "It's better >> to >> live one day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't seem to want to >> change the world. He just seemed to want to take it down with him. >> >> >> If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn't it >> matter >> to them that a large number of their victims were Muslim, or that their >> action was likely to result in a severe backlash against the Muslim >> community in India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism >> is >> a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have their eye on the >> Big Picture, individuals don't figure in their calculations except as >> collateral damage. It has always been a part of and often even the* aim* >> of >> terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in order to expose hidden >> faultlines. The blood of "martyrs" irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists >> need dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, Islamist >> terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the demonstration, the proof >> of victimhood, which is central to the project. A single act of terrorism >> is >> not in itself meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be >> a >> catalyst that triggers something else, something much larger than itself, >> a >> tectonic shift, a realignment. The act itself is theatre, spectacle and >> symbolism, and today, the stage on which it pirouettes and performs its >> acts >> of bestiality is Live TV. Even as the attack was being condemned by TV >> anchors, the effectiveness of the terror strikes were being magnified a >> thousandfold by TV broadcasts. >> >> >> Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed essays, in >> India >> at least there has been very little mention of the elephants in the room: >> Kashmir, Gujarat and the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead we had >> retired diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of a war >> against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to pay their taxes >> unless >> their security was guaranteed (is it alright for the poor to remain >> unprotected?). We had people suggest that the government step down and >> each >> state in India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the death >> of >> former prime minster VP Singh, the hero of Dalits and lower castes and >> villain of Upper caste Hindus pass without a mention. >> >> >> We had Suketu Mehta, author of Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood >> film Mission Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous "Why >> they >> hate us" speech. His analysis of why religious bigots, both Hindu and >> Muslim >> hate Mumbai: "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane dreams and >> an >> indiscriminate openness." His prescription: "The best answer to the >> terrorists is to dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more >> than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go out and shop after >> 9/11? >> Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't seem to get away from. >> >> >> Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another might have just >> begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous section of the Indian elite, >> goaded by marauding TV anchors who make Fox News look almost radical and >> leftwing, have taken to mindlessly attacking politicians,* all* >> politicians, >> glorifying the police and the army and virtually asking for a police >> state. >> It isn't surprising that those who have grown plump on the pickings of >> democracy (such as it is) should now be calling for a police state. The >> era >> of "pickings" is long gone. We're now in the era of Grabbing by Force, and >> democracy has a terrible habit of getting in the way. >> >> >> Dangerous, stupid television flashcards like the Police are Good >> Politicians >> are Bad/Chief Executives are Good Chief Ministers are Bad/Army is Good >> Government is Bad/ India is Good Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about >> by >> TV channels that have already whipped their viewers into a state of almost >> uncontrollable hysteria. >> >> >> Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes at a time when >> people in India were beginning to see that in the business of terrorism, >> victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's an understanding >> that the people of Kashmir, given their dreadful experiences of the last >> 20 >> years, have honed to an exquisite art. On the mainland we're still >> learning. >> (If Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's beginning to look >> as >> though India will integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) >> >> >> It was after the 2001 parliament attack that the first serious questions >> began to be raised. A campaign by a group of lawyers and activists exposed >> how innocent people had been framed by the police and the press, how >> evidence was fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been >> criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. Eventually the >> courts acquitted two out of the four accused, including SAR Geelani, the >> man >> whom the police claimed was the mastermind of the operation. A third, >> Showkat Guru, was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was >> then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence. The supreme court >> upheld the death sentence of another of the accused, Mohammad Afzal. In >> its >> judgment the court acknowledged there was no proof that Mohammed Afzal >> belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite shockingly, >> "The >> collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital >> punishment is awarded to the offender." Even today we don't really know >> who >> the terrorists that attacked the Indian parliament were and who they >> worked >> for. >> >> >> More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the controversial >> "encounter" at Batla House in Jamia Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell >> of >> the Delhi police gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat >> under >> seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they were responsible >> for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and Ahmedabad in 2008. An assistant >> commissioner of Police, Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the >> parliament attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of >> India's many "encounter specialists" known and rewarded for having >> summarily >> executed several "terrorists". There was an outcry against the Special >> Cell >> from a spectrum of people, ranging from eyewitnesses in the local >> community >> to senior Congress Party leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, >> academics >> and activists all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the incident. >> In >> response, the BJP and LK Advani lauded Mohan Chand Sharma as a >> "Braveheart" >> and launched a concerted campaign in which they targeted those who had >> dared >> to question the integrity of the police, saying it was "suicidal" and >> calling them "anti-national". Of course there has been no inquiry. >> >> >> Only days after the Batla House event, another story about "terrorists" >> surfaced in the news. In a report submitted to a sessions court, the CBI >> said that a team from Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the >> Batla >> House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted two innocent >> men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December 2005, planted 2kg of RDX and >> two pistols on them and then arrested them as "terrorists" who belonged to >> Al Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar who have spent >> years >> in jail, are only two examples out of hundreds of Muslims who have been >> similarly jailed, tortured and even killed on false charges. >> >> >> This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism >> Squad >> (ATS) that was investigating the September 2008 Malegaon blasts arrested a >> Hindu preacher Sadhvi Pragya, a self-styled God man Swami Dayanand Pande >> and >> Lt Col Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian Army. All the arrested >> belong to Hindu Nationalist organizations including a Hindu Supremacist >> group called Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned >> the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, claiming he >> was >> part of a political conspiracy and declaring that "Hindus could not be >> terrorists". LK Advani changed his mind about his policy on the police and >> made rabble rousing speeches to huge gatherings in which he denounced the >> ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men and women. >> >> >> On the November 25 newspapers reported that the ATS was investigating the >> high profile VHP Chief Pravin Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon >> blasts. The next day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare >> was >> killed in the Mumbai Attacks. The chances are that the new chief whoever >> he >> is, will find it hard to withstand the political pressure that is bound to >> be brought on him over the Malegaon investigation. >> >> >> While the Sangh Parivar does not seem to have come to a final decision >> over >> whether or not it is anti-national and suicidal to question the police, >> Arnab Goswami, anchorperson of Times Now television, has stepped up to the >> plate. He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling people who >> have dared to question the integrity of the police and armed forces. My >> name >> and the name of the well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up >> several >> times. At one point, while interviewing a former police officer, Arnab >> Goswami turned to camera: "Arundhati >> Royand Prashant >> Bhushan," he said, "I hope you are watching this. We think you >> are disgusting." For a TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged >> and >> as frenzied as the one that prevails today, amounts to incitement as well >> as >> threat, and would probably in different circumstances have cost a >> journalist >> his or her job. >> >> >> So according to a man aspiring to be the next prime minister of India, and >> another who is the public face of a mainstream TV channel, citizens have >> no >> right to raise questions about the police. This in a country with a >> shadowy >> history of suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake >> "encounters". This in a country that boasts of the highest number of >> custodial deaths in the world and yet refuses to ratify the International >> Covenant on Torture. A country where the ones who make it to torture >> chambers are the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being >> "encountered" by our Encounter Specialists. A country where the line >> between >> the Underworld and the Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. >> >> >> How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by the knowledge of >> all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and what are we to do about them? >> There >> are those who point out that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as >> the >> United States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground since >> 9/11. >> However, some would say that what America is suffering now is far worse. >> If >> the idea behind the 9/11 terror attacks was to goad America into showing >> its >> true colors, what greater success could the terrorists have asked for? The >> US army is bogged down in two unwinnable wars, which have made the United >> States the most hated country in the world. Those wars have contributed >> greatly to the unraveling of the American economy and who knows, perhaps >> eventually the American empire. (Could it be that battered, bombed >> Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet Union, will be the undoing of >> this >> one too?) Hundreds of thousands people including thousands of American >> soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The frequency of >> terrorist strikes on U.S allies/agents (including India) and U.S interests >> in the rest of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George >> Bush, >> the man who led the US response to 9/11 is a despised figure not just >> internationally, but also by his own people. Who can possibly claim that >> the >> United States is winning the war on terror? >> >> >> Homeland Security has cost the US government billions of dollars. Few >> countries, certainly not India, can afford that sort of price tag. But >> even >> if we could, the fact is that this vast homeland of ours* cannot* be >> secured >> or policed in the way the United States has been. It's not that kind of >> homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is slowly spinning >> out of control as a neighbour, we have a military occupation in Kashmir >> and >> a shamefully persecuted, impoverished minority of more than 150 million >> Muslims who are being targeted as a community and pushed to the wall, >> whose >> young see no justice on the horizon, and who, were they to totally lose >> hope >> and radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the whole >> world. If ten men can hold off the NSG commandos, and the police for three >> days, and if it takes half a million soldiers to hold down the Kashmir >> valley, do the math. What kind of Homeland Security can secure India? >> >> >> Nor for that matter will any other quick fix. Anti-terrorism laws are not >> meant for terrorists; they're for people that governments don't like. >> That's >> why they have a conviction rate of less than 2%. They're just a means of >> putting inconvenient people away without bail for a long time and >> eventually >> letting them go. Terrorists like those who attacked Mumbai are hardly >> likely >> to be deterred by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to >> death. It's what they* want*. >> >> >> What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative result of decades >> of >> quick fixes and dirty deeds. The carpet's squelching under our feet. >> >> >> The only way to contain (it would be naïve to say end) terrorism is to >> look >> at the monster in the mirror. We're standing at a fork in the road. One >> sign >> says Justice, the other Civil War. There's no third sign and there's no >> going back. Choose. >> ****************** >> 2/4 >> >> >> (This interview of Pervez Hoodbhoy was conducted by Cristina Otten for >> FOCUS. It may be found on-line in German at: >> http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/tid-12856/pakistan-die-menschen-s >> ind-blind-vor-hass_aid_355157.html >> A more readable pdf version is also attached.) >> >> >> THE MUMBAI MASSACRE AND PAKISTAN'S NEW NIGHTMARES >> >> CO: Tensions between Pakistan and India have been growing after the Mumbai >> attacks. Are we close to a military escalation? >> >> PH: In spite of vociferous demands by the Indian public, Prime Minister >> Manmohan Singh's government has withstood the pressure to conduct >> cross-border strikes into Pakistan. Correspondingly, in spite of the >> bitter criticism by Islamic parties, Pakistan's government has moved >> against the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT), the jihadist organization that is >> almost certainly behind the attacks. ÝFor now, the tension has eased >> somewhat but another attack could push India over the fence. >> >> CO: What makes the LeT so different from other militant groups? Is >> Pakistan really moving against it? >> >> PH: LeT, one of the largest militant groups in Pakistan, was established >> over 15 years ago. It had the full support of the Pakistani military and >> Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) for over a decade because it focussed >> upon fighting Indian rule in Muslim Kashmir. Today it is one of the very >> few extremist groups left that does not attack the Pakistani army and >> state; in contrast almost all others have turned into fierce enemies. We >> now hear that a few members of LeT, who were named by India, have been >> arrested. Time will tell whether this was a serious move, or if this was a >> ruse to ease the enormous pressure against Pakistan. If serious, then the >> Army and ISI will have earned the bitter enmity of yet another former >> ally. They are afraid of a repeat of their experience with >> Jaish-e-Muhammad, a formerly supported Islamic militant group that now is >> responsible for extreme brutalities against of Pakistani soldiers captured >> in FATA, including torture and decapitations. It's a nightmarish situation >> for the Pakistan Army. Ý >> >> CO: How have Pakistanis reacted to the Mumbai massacre? >> >> PH: The initial reaction was of sympathy. I did not see any celebrations, >> contrary to those that I saw after 911. But then, as the Indian TV >> >> channels started accusing Pakistan and demanding that it be bombed in >> retaliation, the reaction turned to that of anger and flat denial - >> Pakistanis did not want to accept that this attack was done by Pakistanis >> or had been launched from Pakistani soil. Subsequently one saw amazing >> mental gymnastics. Popular TV anchors, and their guests, invoked far-out >> conspiracy theories. Years ago, some of the same anchors had confidently >> claimed that Kathmandu-Delhi Indian Airlines Flight 814 (IC814) had been >> hijacked by RAW to malign Pakistan. They had also ridiculed the notion >> that Pakistan was involved in the Kargil invasion. Now, pointing to the >> RSS hand in the Samjhota Express bombing, they are alternately ascribing >> the Mumbai attacks to radical Hindus, or to Jews and Americans. It is sad >> to see intelligent persons losing their marbles. Ý >> >> CO: Pakistan has always stressed that it will deliver the first nuclear >> strike if it feels threatened by India? Do you see any signs on the >> >> Pakistani sign to carry out its threat? >> >> PH: About a week before the Mumbai massacre, President Asif Ali Zardari >> had given the assurance that Pakistan would not use nuclear weapons first. >> India had announced a no first use policy almost ten years ago. But >> Zardari is not taken seriously by the Pakistani generals who actually >> control the Bomb, and the Indian NFU declaration is frankly of no >> consequence. Cross-border raids by India could well ignite a conventional >> war. If that happens, all bets are off and it could escalate without >> warning into a nuclear conflict. For many years US defence strategists, >> belonging to various think tanks and war colleges, have been simulating >> conflicts between Pakistan and India. They say that a conventional war >> will almost certainly lead to a nuclear conclusion. Fear of nuclear >> weapons has made deterrence work. More accurately, deterrence has worked >> only thus far.ÝNo guarantees can be given for the future. >> >> CO: Why did the assassins choose India instead of committing attacks >> against Western allies in Afghanistan? >> >> PH: LeT is based around Lahore, which is on the Pakistan-India border, in >> a town called Muridke. This has a huge militant training and charity >> complex. LeT's membership is mostly Punjabi, which makes it linguistically >> and culturally quite unsuited for fighting in Afghanistan. You could say >> that LeT is an India-specific, Kashmir-specific group. Indeed, over the >> years it has had many military successes in Kashmir against Indian forces. >> But LeT, like other militant groups in Pakistan, sees a nexus between >> Indians, Americans, and Israelis. Hence they are all seen as enemies and >> fair game. Ý >> >> CO: What did the Mumbai terrorists want? >> >> PH: No demands were made and all hostages were killed. So the purpose of >> the attack was never formally declared. On the other hand, the stated >> goals of LeT and similar organizations based in Pakistan leave little >> doubt. The attack clearly sought to hurt India's economy and its newly >> acquired reputation as an economic powerhouse, and to create a climate of >> war between India and Pakistan. If Pakistan moves its troops towards the >> eastern border the pressure on the Pakistani Taliban in FATA, which is >> close to the western border, would be lessened. Still another reason >> would be to encourage pogroms against Muslims in India. This would swell >> the ranks of the extremists,Ýand also have the added benefit of >> destabilizing both the Pakistani and Indian states. Finally, the attack >> was a means of releasing hatred against non-Muslims. Ý >> >> CO: What differences and parallels do you see between the Mumbai attacks >> and the attack in the in Marriott Hotel in Islamabad? >> >> PH: They were quite dissimilar in how they were executed. The Mumbai >> attacks were extremely intricate, used GPS and voice-over-internet >> protocols for communication purposes, involved extensive military >> training, and probably required planning over a period of a year. The goal >> was to kill foreigners, particularly Jews and Americans, although Muslims >> were also collateral casualties. On the other hand, the Marriot bombing in >> Islamabad was a relatively simple affair involving a single dump-truck >> >> with a suicide bomber, and its victims were principally Muslims. The basic >> purpose, however, was similar - to destabilize the Pakistani state, take >> revenge on the US (2 of the 58 killed were US marines), and raise the cost >> of war in Afghanistan and FATA. >> >> CO: In the West experts talk about a new dimension of terror in India. Do >> you also see tight connections between Lashkar-e-TaibaÝ and al-Qaida? >> >> PH: One is naturally tempted to guess a nexus between LeT and Al-Qaida. >> Of course, they do share similar goals. But in the world that extremists >> inhabit, mere similarity is insufficient - it has to be much closer than >> that because small ideological differences are amplified out of >> proportion. As yet there is no proof of joint operations or cooperation. >> So presently this is no more than a plausible hypothesis. >> >> CO: What role does Kashmir play in the current conflict? >> >> PH: Since 1987, Kashmir has been in a state of upheaval. Fraudulent >> >> elections conducted by India led to widespread resentment, followed by a >> horrifically bloody crackdown by Indian security forces. Pakistan's army >> saw opportunity in this, and waged a covert war in Kashmir using jihadists >> to "bleed India with a thousand cuts". The United Jihad Council, which >> oversees the activities of an estimated 22 Pakistan-based organizations, >> acts outside of the domain of the Pakistani state but it has had active >> support from the countryís army and intelligence agencies. The Kargil >> conflict in 1999 brought matters to a head when General Musharraf >> initiated a war with the assistance of jihadist forces. This inflicted >> severe damage on Indian forces but Pakistan was ultimately forced to >> withdraw. Jihadists subsequently celebrated General Musharraf as a hero, >> and vilified Nawaz Sharif for a cowardly surrender. >> >> CO: In January 2002, General Musharraf had declared that no groups on >> Pakistani territory would be permitted to launch cross-border attacks. Was >> this promise fulfilled? >> >> PH: Subsequently there indeed was a decline in cross-border infiltrations, >> and some lessening of the covert support given by Pakistani agencies. But >> this was far from zero and they maintained a strong presence. On a >> personal note: soon after the terrible October 8, 2005 earthquake, I had >> gone to various areas of Azad Kashmir for relief work. There I found the >> Lashkar-i-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Sipah-i-Sahaba, and other banned >> jihadist organizations operating openly and freely using military-style >> six-wheeled vehicles, as well as displaying their weapons. Their relief >> efforts were far better organized than that of the Pakistan army and, in >> fact, they were pulling injured soldiers out of the rubble. When I >> mentioned this fact to General Musharraf a few months later at a Kashmir >> peace conference, he was very angry at me for discussing a tabooed >> subject. >> >> CO: On the one hand, we have radical extremists in Pakistan who want to >> bring strict Islamic law into force and demonize the West. On the other >> hand, however, the government presents itself as a friend and ally of the >> United States. Could you please describe this antagonism and explain where >> it originates from? What does this tell us about the growth of extremism >> in Pakistan? >> >> PH: Radical extremism is the illegitimate offspring of a union between the >> United States under Ronald Reagan, and Pakistan under General Zia-ul-Haq. >> Twenty five years ago, the two countries had joined up to harness Islamic >> fighters for expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan. The US was quite >> happy to see radical Islam spreading because it served its goal at the >> time. Simultaneously, Pakistan saw a major social transformation under >> General Zia. Prayers in government departments were deemed compulsory, >> floggings were carried out publicly, punishments were meted out to those >> who did not fast in Ramadan, selection for university academic posts >> required that the candidate demonstrate knowledge of Islamic teachings, >> and jihad was declared essential for every Muslim. But today the >> government is in open conflict with the radicals. It has to deal with a >> spontaneous groundswell of Islamic zeal. The notion of an Islamic state - >> >> as yet in some amorphous and diffuse form - is more popular today than >> ever before as people look desperately for miracles to rescue a failing >> state. Even though the government and military in Pakistan are allied >> formally to the US, the people are strongly against the US. >> >> CO: What parts of the Pakistani society support al-Qaida and Osama bin >> Laden? >> >> PH: Baluchistan and Sind are far less supportive than Punjab or the NWFP. >> The amazing fact is that parts of Pakistan's upper class - which is very >> Westernized but also very anti-Western - also support the Islamists. I >> find it tragic that there is no uproar in the country when Taliban suicide >> bombers target mosques, funerals, hospitals, girls schools, and slaughter >> policemen and soldiers. People have become so anti-American that it has >> blinded them to these atrocities. Even the Pakistani left is thoroughly >> confused and mistakes the Taliban as anti-imperialist fighters. >> >> >> CO: And where do you stand on this matter? Do you see anything that the >> Islamists have to offer? >> >> PH: The people of Pakistan need and deserve everything that people >> everywhere else want. This means food, jobs, houses to live in, a system >> of justice and governance, and protection of life and property. Equally, >> people need freedom of worship and thought, education for both males and >> females, and protection of their freedom as summarized in the Universal >> Declaration of Human Rights. These are everybody's primary needs. After >> this - a distinct second - come matters that deal with national >> sovereignty, foreign policy, various global issues, etc. Frankly, I cannot >> see Pakistanís Islamists offering anything positive. They are against >> population planning, educating females, tolerating other sects or >> religions, etc. They neither know the outside world, nor want to know it. >> All they know - and know well - is how to make war. Fortunately, as their >> rout in the recent elections showed, most Pakistanis do not want to live >> under their narrow doctrines and belief system. >> >> CO: President Asif AliÝ Zardari promised to hunt terrorists and to destroy >> terror camps in Pakistan? But his affirmations seem to be halfhearted. >> Can't he do more or doesn't he want do more? >> >> PH: It is not up to him to do more. The real power lies with the Pakistan >> Army, which is still undecided as to who the real enemy is. The Army has >> lost nearly two thousand soldiers in battles with extremists. But it still >> cannot convince itself that they constitute an existentialist threat to >> Pakistan. One can understand this reluctance. Over the years, officers and >> soldiers were recruited into the Army on the basis that they were >> defenders of Islam and would always fight India. Instead they now have to >> fight forces that claim to be even better defenders of Islam. Worse, they >> are no longer being called upon to fight India, which is what they were >> trained for. So there is confusion and demoralization, and practically >> zero public understanding or support. Therefore, Pakistani soldiers are >> not fighting well at all in FATA. Many have surrendered without a fight. >> >> CO: Do you support the government's war against extremists? >> >> PH: This is the first time in my life that I feel the Army should be >> supported, but only to the extent that it fights the extremists without >> killing innocents. Unfortunately, the Army's current tactic is to flatten >> villages suspected of harbouring terrorists. The collateral damage is huge >> and completely unacceptable. >> >> CO: Pakistan has armed and financed the Taliban after the US invasion of >> Afghanistan. The CIA pays Pakistan to arrest al-Qaeda operatives, but >> Pakistan uses the money to fund the Taliban resurgence in northwest >> Pakistan. Any changes under the new president? >> >> PH: It will take time - and perhaps still more suffering - to kick an old >> habit. Even though the Army is being literally slaughtered by the Taliban, >> it continues to make a distinction between the "good" and "bad" Taliban. >> The good ones are, by definition, those who attack only US/Nato or Indian >> interests in Afghanistan, but do not attack the Pakistan Army. The good >> ones are seen as essential for having a friendly Afghanistan when, as will >> >> surely happen some day, the Americans withdraw. Among the good Taliban are >> jihadist leaders such as Jalaludin Haqqani. On the other hand, Baitullah >> Mehsud or Maulana Fazlullah, are considered bad Taliban because they >> attack the Army and the state. Interestingly, Army inspired propaganda >> paints the bad Taliban as Indian agents - which is quite ridiculous. This >> false differentiation is the real reason for the Army's ambivalence and >> inability to deal effectively with the Taliban menace. >> >> CO: Pakistan is a nuclear state. Should we fear that one day the Taliban >> or al-Qaida could get access to the nuclear arsenal? >> >> PH: I am more worried about extremists having access to nuclear materials, >> particularly highly enriched uranium, rather than a completed weapon. >> Because of secrecy requirements, it is very difficult for outsiders to >> monitor the output of uranium enrichment or plutonium reprocessing plants. >> >> Interestingly, we are seeing a shift away from nuclear weapons in the >> West. The unusability of nuclear weapons by national states is being >> recognized even by mainstream politicians in the US and Europe because >> nuclear weapons now no longer guarantee the monopoly of power. This makes >> possible the ultimate de-legitimization of nuclear weapons, and hence >> winding down of fissile material production globally. This may be our best >> long-term hope of countering the nuclear terrorist threat, whether by >> Al-Qaida or other terrorist groups. Meanwhile, in the short term, great >> care must be given to watching over suspicious nuclear activities. >> >> CO: What should India do and what is your forecast for the region? >> >> PH: India should not attack Pakistan. This would be counter-productive in >> every possible way. Even if it wins a war, it will be a pyrrhic victory. >> On the other hand, a small attack can be no more than a pin-prick. This >> would do more harm than good because it will unite the army and the >> jihadists who, at this juncture in history, are in serious confrontation >> with each other. Worse, even a small attack could lead to large response, >> and then escalate out of control. Nuclear armed countries simply cannot >> afford skirmishes. I think India's demand for action against jihadist >> groups is entirely legitimate, but this must be done by Pakistan, which is >> susceptible to international pressure. To get rid of militants and >> extremists - whether Muslim or Hindu - is in the best interests of both >> Pakistan and India. >> >> CO: Will Pakistani extremists win or can the West still bring about a >> rebound? >> >> PH: It's a grim situation but not irreversible. The invasion of Iraq, and >> US imperial policies over the last decades, created a hatred for Americans >> that ultimately translated into support for all who fight them. Most >> Pakistanis do not approve of the Taliban's fundamental and primitivist >> social agenda. But, by virtue of fighting the Americans, popular sentiment >> is still with them. So, reducing anti-Americanism is the key. One hopes >> that Barack Obama will be able to undo some of the harm his country did to >> Pakistan. Let's see. But basically it is for Pakistanis - not Indians or >> anybody else - to fight it out. We Pakistanis have to realize that this is >> a war for our very existence as a civilized nation. Western support for >> Pakistan must be very judicious and not too overt. Similarly, isolating >> Pakistan, or inflicting harsh punitive measures, could easily backfire. >> The Taliban and allied extremists have a real chance of winning in >> Pakistan. The state is already crumbling in places and it could >> disintegrate quite rapidly, leaving the fanatics in charge. One cannot >> think of a bigger disaster for Pakistan. >> >> ------------- >> >> **************** >> 3/4 >> *An article written by Anand Patwardhan which was rejected by the Times of >> India:* >> >> *Terror: The Aftermath* >> *Anand PAtwardhan. >> >> *The attack on Mumbai is over. After the numbing sorrow comes the blame >> game >> and the solutions. Loud voices amplified by saturation TV: Why don't we >> amend our Constitution to create new anti-terror laws? Why don't we arm >> our >> police with AK 47s? Why don't we do what Israel did after Munich or the >> USA >> did after 9/11 and hot pursue the enemy? Solutions that will lead us >> further >> into the abyss. For terror is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It thrives on >> reaction, polarization, militarization and the thirst for revenge. >> >> The External Terror >> Those who invoke America need only to analyze if its actions after 9/11 >> increased or decreased global terror. It invaded oil-rich Iraq fully >> knowing >> that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, killing over 200,000 Iraqis >> citizens >> but allowing a cornered Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan. It recruited >> global support for Islamic militancy, which began to be seen as a just >> resistance against American mass murder. Which begs the question of who >> created Bin Laden in the first place, armed the madarsas of Pakistan and >> rejuvenated the concept of Islamic jehad? Israel played its own role in >> stoking the fires of jehad. The very creation of Israel in 1948 robbed >> Palestinians of their land, an act that Mahatma Gandhi to his credit >> deplored at the time as an unjust way to redress the wrongs done to Jews >> during the Holocaust. What followed has been a slow and continuing attack >> on >> the Palestinian nation. At first Palestinian resistance was led by secular >> forces represented by Yasser Arafat but as these were successfully >> undermined, Islamic forces took over the mantle. The first, largely >> non-violent Intifada was crushed, a second more violent one replaced it >> and >> when all else failed, human bombs appeared. >> >> Thirty years ago when I first went abroad there were two countries my >> Indian >> passport forbade me to visit. One was racist South Africa. The other was >> Israel. We were non-aligned and stood for disarmament and world peace. >> Today >> Israel and America are our biggest military allies. Is it surprising that >> we >> are on the jehadi hit list? Israel, America and other prosperous countries >> can to an extent protect themselves against the determined jehadi, but can >> India put an impenetrable shield over itself? Remember that when attackers >> are on a suicide mission, the strongest shields have crumbled. New York >> was >> laid low not with nuclear weapons but with a pair of box cutters. India is >> for many reasons a quintessentially soft target. Our huge population, vast >> landmass and coastline are impossible to protect. The rich may build new >> barricades. The Taj and the Oberoi can be made safer. So can our airports >> and planes. Can our railway stations and trains, bus stops, busses, >> markets >> and lanes do the same? >> >> The Terror Within >> The threat of terror in India does not come exclusively from the outside. >> Apart from being hugely populated by the poor India is also a country >> divided, not just between rich and poor, but by religion, caste and >> language. This internal divide is as potent a breeding ground for terror >> as >> jehadi camps abroad. Nor is jehad the copyright of one religion alone. It >> can be argued that international causes apart, India has jehadis that are >> fully home grown. Perhaps the earliest famous one was Nathuram Godse who >> acting at the behest of his mentor Vinayak Savarkar (still referred to as >> "Veer" or "brave" although he refused to own up to his role in the >> conspiracy), murdered Mahatma Gandhi for the crime of championing Muslims. >> >> Jump forward to 6th December, 1992, the day Hindu fanatics demolished the >> Babri Mosque setting into motion a chain of events that still wreaks havoc >> today. From the Bombay riots of 1992 to the bomb blasts of 1993, the >> Gujarat >> pogroms of 2002 and hundreds of smaller deadly events, the last 16 years >> have been the bloodiest since Partition. Action has been followed by >> reaction in an endless cycle of escalating retribution. At the core on the >> Hindu side of terror are organizations that openly admire Adolph Hitler, >> nursing the hate of historic wrongs inflicted by Muslims. Ironically these >> votaries of Hitler remain friends and admirers of Israel. >> >> On the Muslim side of terror are scores of disaffected youth, many of whom >> have seen their families tortured and killed in more recent pogroms. >> Christians too have fallen victim to recent Hindutva terror but as yet not >> formed the mechanisms for revenge. Dalits despite centuries of caste >> oppression, have not yet retaliated in violence although a small fraction >> is >> being drawn into an armed struggle waged by Naxalites. >> >> It is clear that no amount of spending on defense, no amount of patrolling >> the high seas, no amount of increasing the military and police and >> equipping >> them with the latest weaponry can end the cycle of violence or place India >> under a bubble of safety. Just as nuclear India did not lead to more >> safety, >> but only to a nuclear Pakistan, no amount of homeland security can save >> us. >> And inviting Israel's Mossad and America's CIA/FBI to the security table >> is >> like giving the anti-virus contract to those who spread the virus in the >> first place. It can only make us more of a target for the next determined >> jehadi attack. >> >> Policing, Justice and the Media >> As for draconian anti-terror laws, they too only breed terror as for the >> most part they are implemented by a State machinery that has imbibed >> majoritarian values. So in Modi's Gujarat after the ethnic cleansing of >> Muslims in 2002, despite scores of confessions to rape and murder captured >> on hidden camera, virtually no Hindu extremists were punished while >> thousands of Muslims rotted in jail under draconian laws. The same >> happened >> in Bombay despite the Shiv Sena being found guilty by the Justice >> Shrikrishna Commission. Under pressure a few cases were finally brought to >> trial but all escaped with the lightest of knuckle raps. In stark contrast >> many Muslims accused in the 1993 bomb blasts were given death sentences. >> >> The bulk of our media, policing and judicial systems swallows the canard >> that Muslims are by nature violent. Removing democratic safeguards >> guaranteed by the Constitution can only make this worse. Every act of >> wrongful imprisonment and torture that then follows is likely to turn >> innocents into material for future terrorists to draw upon. Already the >> double standards are visible. While the Students Islamic Movement of India >> is banned, Hindutva outfits like the RSS, the VHP, the Bajrang Dal, and >> the >> Shiv Sena remain legal entities. The leader of the MNS, Raj Thackeray >> recently openly spread such hatred that several north Indians were killed >> by >> lynch mobs. Amongst these were the Dube brothers, doctors from Kalyan who >> treated the poor for a grand fee of Rs.10 per patient. Raj Thackeray like >> his uncle Bal before him, remains free after issuing public threats that >> Bombay would burn if anyone had the guts to arrest him. Modi remains free >> despite the pogroms of Gujarat. Congress party murderers of Sikhs in 1984 >> remain free. Justice in India is clearly not there for all. Increasing the >> powers of the police cannot solve this problem. Only honest and unbiased >> implementation of laws that exist, can. >> >> It is a tragedy of the highest proportions that one such honest policeman, >> Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who had begun to unravel the >> thread of Hindutva terror was himself gunned down, perhaps by Muslim >> terror. >> It is reported that Col. Purohit and fellow Hindutva conspirators now in >> judicial custody, celebrated the news of Karkare's death. Until Karkare >> took >> charge, the Malegaon bomb blasts in which Muslims were killed and the >> Samjhauta Express blasts in which Pakistani visitors to India were killed >> were being blamed on Muslims. Karkare exposed a hitherto unknown Hindutva >> outfit as masterminding a series of killer blasts across the country. For >> his pains Karkare came under vicious attack not just from militant >> Hindutva >> but from the mainstream BJP. He was under tremendous pressure to prove his >> patriotism. Was it this that led this senior officer to don helmet and >> ill-fitting bullet proof vest and rush into battle with a pistol? Or was >> it >> just his natural instinct, the same courage that had led him against all >> odds, to expose Hindutva terror? >> >> Whatever it was, it only underlines the fact that jehadis of all kinds are >> actually allies of each other. So Bin Laden served George Bush and >> vice-versa. So Islamic and Hindutva jehadis have served each other for >> years. Do they care who dies? Of the 200 people killed in the last few >> days >> by Islamic jehadis, a high number were Muslims. Many were waiting to board >> trains to celebrate Eid in their hometowns in UP and Bihar, when their >> co-religionists gunned them down. Shockingly the media has not commented >> on >> this, nor focused on the tragedy at the railway station, choosing to >> concentrate on tragedies that befell the well-to-do. And it is the media >> that is leading the charge to turn us into a war-mongering police state >> where we may lead lives with an illusion of safety, but with the certainty >> of joylessness. >> >> I am not arguing that we do not need efficient security at public places >> and >> at vulnerable sites. But real security will only come when it is >> accompanied >> by real justice, when the principles of democracy are implemented in every >> part of the country, when the legitimate grievances of people are not >> crushed, when the arms race is replaced by a race for decency and >> humanity, >> when our children grow up in an atmosphere where religious faith is put to >> the test of reason. Until such time we will remain at the mercy of >> "patriots" and zealots. >> >> >> ************* >> 4/4 >> Mordecai Briemberg of Vancouver-based People's Radio talks with Hari >> Sharma >> >> >> http://www.rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/redeye/understanding-assault-mumbai >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From rahulroy63 at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 16:20:23 2008 From: rahulroy63 at gmail.com (Rahul Roy) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:20:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA NewsLetter] Four Women and a Room: Screening In-Reply-To: <5a4334630812190243w76a5b79ci6be475355bd1c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ea7953c0812190106v2b099ea1p8aeeb7ebebdad03d@mail.gmail.com> <5a4334630812190243w76a5b79ci6be475355bd1c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ambarien al qadar Date: Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM Subject: Four Women and a Room: Screening To: ambarien , "Delhi Film Archive [DFA]" < delhifilmarchive at gmail.com>, Dear all, If you are in Delhi, please do come for the screening of my film 'Four Women and a Room' in The Indian Panorama section at The Delhi International Arts Festival , Delhi. The film is scheduled on 21st December ,6 pm, Siri Fort Auditorium 3. About the film: Late into pregnancy, Mili is confounded with a range of unknown emotions. Having gone through endless rituals of matchmaking, Latika is wondering about her desire to be a biological mother. The dreamscape of the filmmaker throws up images and associations of a hospital visited sometime back and reminds her of meeting Kalpana, a fictitious character who might have undergone a sex selective abortion. Combining techniques of documentary and fiction, Four Women and a Room unfolds through the metaphor of the labour room and the conscious and subconscious resonances it has in the lives of its four protagonists. Set against the complex social history of how abortions came to be legalized in India as population control imperatives rather than a pro-choice legislation , the film raises crucial questions about debates around sex selective abortions, marriage and motherhood within South Asian contexts while making a strong case for the agency of women. Thanks Ambarien Al Qadar --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive Our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 07:21:10 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:51:10 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Antulay's theory finds many takers References: Message-ID: A lot of MPs whose names do not Muslim have also sided with the Congress cabinet minister. The issue is being communalized by the media you read. I forgot to remind you in my previous mail in response to your mail that wrongly said that nonmuslims are not taking Antule's theory. There are lots of liberal Muslims who have rubbished Antule's outburst as mere bull shit. Javed Akhtar finds this embarrassing and unnecessary, even though he did not call it bull shit. On the other hand, I can think of Digvijay Singh and Amar Singh who I believe are nonmuslims who have gone with Antule. Also in your previous mail you incorrectly said that Congress is hounding Antule. A minister of cabinet rank should have thrown out immediately for speking against his onw party's government according to our political tradition, but the old Antule is still there. Doesn't sound like any hounding happening as yet. Yes a BJP mp who has a Muslim name has been very vociferously vocal against Congress veteran Antule. So madam, it seems the writers of the two mails you forwarded either did not consider all the facts, or chose to ignore them. I think they like to communalize the situation and I don't think this helps anyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fatima फ़ातिमा" To: "Reader-list" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Antulay's theory finds many takers > Sorry for bombarding your mailbox with many messages on this subject. > But this is the last one. > > > Antulay's theory finds many takers > 20 Dec 2008, 0531 hrs IST, TNN > > NEW DELHI: Minority affairs minister A R Antulay might have deeply > embarrassed his own party but the throng of the faithful that welcomed > him at a mosque near Parliament where he went to offer afternoon > prayers reflected a groundswell of support in his community. > > Antulay's stand on Mumbai anti-terrorism squad chief Hemant Karkare's > killing — that it was linked to the officer investigating Hindu > radicals accused in the Malegaon case — has earned him the > overwhelming support of opinion-makers in the Muslim community who > feel that the concerns are valid. > > Muslim organisations and members of Parliament have pointed a finger > of suspicion at the "mysterious circumstances" under which Karkare and > his two other officers — Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar — were killed > just when the ATS was making sensational disclosures regarding the > alleged involvement of Hindu extremist outfits in the Malegaon blast > case. > > JD(U) MP Ejaz Ali said the question raised by the minister was a > timely one. "The circumstances around Hemant Karkare's death are > suspicious. He was getting threats to his life and his wife has > refused compensation offered to her. We demand a probe by the CBI or a > joint parliamentary committee on the issue," he said. The MP added > that national interest must be given precedence over religious and > political concerns. > > Similar reservations on Karkare's killing were raised by Mohammed > Adeeb, independent member of the Rajya Sabha from UP who felt the > "sudden" deaths of the three officers were on everyone's mind. "It is > a question that should not be politicised," he said. At pains to > disassociate himself from the Congress, Adeeb said he was neither an > admirer of the Congress party nor Antulay. "People with secular > credentials have wanted to know about this (the circumstances around > Karkare's death). I don't understand what the fuss is all about? This > is a democracy and we have every right to ask for a probe," he said. > > Jamiat-e-Islami-Hind president Jalal Umri alleged that the government > was trying to brush the issue under the carpet. "Up till the Malegaon > probe, only Muslim names were being named in every blast as suspects. > But after the ATS investigation, things that we had suspected for long > since the Nagpur blasts would have been backed by hard evidence > finally," he said. > > Umri added that Antulay was not wrong but to condemn him was wrong. > All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat (AIMMM) said it was relevant to > note that no demands had been made by terrorists. "It was as if the > terrorists had intended to kill the three and they accomplished this," > Zafarul Islam Khan, AIMMM president, said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 08:12:02 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:42:02 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Healing Touch: Lahore-based theatre group to perform at Thrissur Message-ID: <809CD8C5438643BF91BB4886F29AD6E1@tara> healing touch Nirupama Subramanian Lahore-based theatre group to perform at Thrissur -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Play based on Bulleh Shah 's life "Message of Sufi saint has found instant response" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ISLAMABAD: Dark clouds of animosity and distrust are once again hovering over India and Pakistan, and there is uncertainty about where and how these will lift . Does Sufism hold the answer? Yes, says the Lahore-based Ajoka Theatre Group. On Sunday, 22 members of the group will leave for India, hoping to take some ions out of the current charged atmosphere between the two countries with their acclaimed play Bullah about the great Sufi saint Bulleh Shah and his message of peace and tolerance. "We hope in this small way we can help to resume the dialogue for peace between the two countries because finally, dialogue is the only way to end conflict, not war," said Madeeha Gauhar, a well-known actor who is also Ajoka's director. The group is going to India at the invitation of the Sangeet Natak Academy to perform at the International Theatre Festival that begins on December 22 in Thrissur in Kerala. Bulleh Shah's early life coincided with the final decades of Mughal rule that witnessed conflict, political chaos and civil and religious strife, especially between Sikhs and Muslims. Through his verses, Bullah, as he is popularly known, called for tolerance and love in an atmosphere of hatred and bigotism, urging people to respect each other's religious beliefs. At every turn, he challenged Islamic orthodoxy for which he was branded an infidel and attracted several fatwas. The legend goes that when Bullah died, the mullahs of his native Kasur refused to allow him to be buried in the city graveyard. He was buried outside, but his followers turned it into a shrine that is even today Kasur's main attraction. The play Bullah is a tribute to this famous mystic, and is based on the events of his life, through his poetry, historical records and legend. But his search for truth, his conflict with the intolerant clergy and corrupt rulers, his opposition to war and bloodshed in the name of religion, which are presented powerfully in the play, have a contemporary resonance. This is not the first time that Ajoka is staging Bullah in India. It has been shown in Delhi, Punjab and Jammu. The invitation to the festival in Kerala came much before the Mumbai attacks, but according to Ms. Gauhar, the fallout makes the message of the play all the more important and relevant. "Our experience with Bullah is that wherever in India or Pakistan we have taken it, the message of love and harmony and peace of Bulleh Shah and of Sufism in general has found an instant response among audiences," said Ms. Gauhar. The play will show at the festival on December 26. Pri From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 08:24:57 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:54:57 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] From Munich To Mumbai (NY Times) Message-ID: <2D0F996C8CF247EBBDE00F156137FC5E@tara> OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR. From Munich To Mumbai. By AMI PEDAZHUR. Ami Pedazhur, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at the University of Texas at Austin, is the author of the forthcoming book 'The Israeli Secret Services and the Struggle Against Terrorism. Austin, Tex.. NOW that India and the world are over the initial shock of the terrorist attacks last month in Mumbai, efforts to understand what happened and prevent future calamities are being hampered in ways familiar to Israelis like myself, who have lived through far too many such events: pointless efforts to place blame, and a failure to put the attacks in the proper historical context. First, contrary to much punditry in India and the West, these attacks did not indicate the emergence of a new form of terrorism. Actually, after decades in which terrorism had evolved mostly in the direction of suicide bombings, Mumbai was a painful reminder of the past. The multiple hostage-takings and shootings, carefully planned and executed, were a throwback to the wave of hijackings and hostage situations that were the trademark of terrorists in the Middle East from the 1960s until the 1980s. The most famous of these events, of course, was the attack on the Israeli delegation at the 1972 Olympic Games. In Munich, the Black September terrorists succeeded in capturing the attention of TV viewers around the world for a whole day. They knew most TV networks had sent crews to cover the Games and thus would broadcast the hostage situation as it unfolded. The terrorists in Mumbai were even more successful, in that they created a drama that lasted much longer. They did so by aiming at high-profile targets like the hotels that are hubs for Western tourists and businessmen. They knew that viewers around the world would be glued for days to the constant stream of images on their TV and computer screens. In addition, that the majority of the Mumbai terrorists landed from the sea was another ugly flashback. For years, terrorists favored arriving at Israel's beaches on speed boats to take hostages in residential neighborhoods. One of the most notorious perpetrators was Samir Kuntar, who in 1979 led a group of terrorists to the beach of Nahariya and shot a police officer and a civilian, Danny Haran, before smashing the skull of Haran's 4-year-old daughter, Einat. Mr. Kuntar was released this year from Israel in a prisoner exchange, and in Damascus was awarded the Syrian Order of Merit. Yet, despite the horrific nature of the attacks in the past, from a counterterrorism perspective the events in Mumbai were even more worrisome. Though they did not detonate explosive belts, the attackers were truly suicide terrorists. They did not take their hostages for the purpose of negotiations and it is quite clear that they did not hope to leave the scene alive. They also created chaos by attacking several locations at once. When the terrorists have the advantage of surprise, it really does not matter how well trained the counterterrorism forces are. It takes a long time to figure out what is going on, to gather tactical intelligence and to launch a counterattack. No one should be aware of these facts more than the Israelis who in the 1970s endured a series of similar albeit less sophisticated attacks. Hence, I have been very surprised to hear Israeli security experts criticizing the Indian response. These experts probably forgot the devastating civilian death tolls of the attacks in Maalot in 1974 (22 Israeli high school students killed), at the Coastal Road in 1978 (37 murdered, including 13 children) and at Misgav Am in 1980 (two kibbutz members killed, one an infant). These incidents all illustrated the extreme difficulty of rescuing hostages even when the attacked state has highly trained forces and a lot of experience. Yes, Israel enjoyed a few successes that have been glorified around the world. The most famous were the raids on hijacked planes in Lod, Israel, in 1972 and in Entebbe, Uganda, in 1976. But these two airport rescues cannot be compared with the events in Mumbai. The Israeli success was due mainly to the fact that the terrorists involved were interested in negotiating, giving security forces the opportunity to gather intelligence, devise a rescue plan and take the hijackers by surprise. Hostages and rescuers were killed in both cases. Yet no security experts argued at the time that the Israeli forces were inadequately prepared or failed in their execution. It is clear that the Indian security forces made some mistakes. However, mistakes are inherent in such crises. At the same time, given the complex nature of the attacks, it seems likely the death toll could have been much higher. After the initial confusion, the Indians seem to have done a thorough job of gathering intelligence and carefully planning their counterattacks. The execution itself was careful and thorough. Israel and India both face a lasting terrorism challenge. Yet, if I was asked to give India policy recommendations, I would be extremely cautious about advocating the Israeli approach. Protecting a huge multiethnic, multireligious country like India is far more challenging than securing a rather homogeneous, tiny state like Israel. Just to illustrate, Israel's airport security is rightly considered to be a model. However, the Israeli security establishment took years and experienced a number of direct attacks on travel hubs before it slowly introduced its impressive security measures. That Israel has only one major international airport -- Ben-Gurion, near Tel Aviv -- made the process much easier. And so far, Israel has not been able to tightly secure more challenging targets like train and bus systems. The Israeli experience teaches that countering terrorism is a long and frustrating process of trial and error. Terrorists are fast to respond to new obstacles. For example, the security barrier erected after the start of the second intifada in 2000 has brought a sharp decline in the number of suicide attacks. But Hamas adapted quickly. Suicide bombers were replaced by rockets. While the number of casualties caused by the rockets is significantly lower, I am not convinced that residents of the towns near Gaza feel any safer. The Mumbai attacks showed just how difficult it is for large, multiethnic states to protect themselves from terrorism, something Americans have known well since 9/11. There is certainly much for New Delhi and Washington to learn from the Israeli experience, but there is no one-size-fits-all solution. While Israel has much to be proud of in how it has handled terrorism, it also has much to be humble about. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 08:49:40 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:19:40 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Weary of Violence, Kashmiris Fight Back With Their Votes (New York Times) Message-ID: <7536512F5B064373B61AE3D359FB6E36@tara> Weary of Violence, Kashmiris Fight Back With Their Votes. By SOMINI SENGUPTA. BOTHOO, Kashmir. More than a decade before last month's attacks in Mumbai, fighters from Lashkar-e-Taiba showed up here, turning this pine-ringed village in the Indian-administered part of Kashmir into a lair that became known as 'the cat's attic. Local residents immediately recognized that the men were different from the Kashmiri guerrillas who came before them. These fighters were mostly from the Punjab Province in Pakistan. They were well armed and well trained as well as ruthless. They introduced suicide bombings to Kashmir in 1999. The next year, they attacked a nearby Indian Army camp, recording the screams of the soldiers holed up inside and then playing them back to villagers, who delighted in the soldiers' suffering. But today, after years of being caught in the middle of an insurgency that was brutally crushed by Indian forces, Kashmiris are weary of the fighting. Lashkar fighters still make the treacherous passage over the hills from Pakistan, people here say, though fewer of them come. The mostly Muslim valley is quieter than it has been in years. In recent weeks, Kashmiris have even reached a watershed: channeling local grievances into polling booths and turning out in record numbers to vote in staggered state elections, which began Nov. 17 and end Wednesday. Overall turnout figures have soared above 60 percent, according to the state election office, and by Kashmiri standards the voting has been notably free of violence and coercion. This time, the fighters, in what apparently was a concession to Kashmiri fatigue, did not threaten those who took part in the vote. In this district, turnout was 59 percent. But the fact that Kashmiris are turning out to vote does not mean that they have embraced Indian rule, as weeks of massive demonstrations this summer amply demonstrated. They continue to chafe under the restrictions of the Indian security forces, whose record on human rights in Kashmir has come under international criticism for years. Kashmiris are voting to demand ordinary things: roads, electricity, jobs. The main problem here is unemployment,' Shafqat Shabir, 18, a first-time voter in the nearest town, Bandipur, said last month on the day he cast his ballot. He and his friends had taken part in the anti-Indian demonstrations, shouting azadi, or freedom. Freedom from Indian rule, said his friend Afaq Hussain Mir, 22, is 'our birthright. That cause remains essential to Lashkar, and it is still the group's most effective recruiting tool. Formed more than two decades ago with the help of Pakistani intelligence agencies, Lashkar originally had the mission of challenging India's hold on this fertile valley. As India-Pakistan peace talks progressed in recent years, Lashkar sharply decreased its attacks in Kashmir. At the same time, it moved on to bigger, higher-profile targets across India. Its targets are believed to have included a science center in southern Bangalore, a Hindu temple in eastern Varanasi and, the most audacious of all, Mumbai, the financial capital, where a three-day siege killed 163 people and 9 gunmen. While Lashkar has denied any link to the Mumbai attacks, the one surviving gunman, from among at least 10, said he belonged to the group and named known Lashkar commanders as his trainers. The link to Kashmir remains strong. The man who the Indian authorities say was the mastermind of the Mumbai attacks, Zaki ur-Rahman Lakhvi, once served as a commander here in Indian-controlled Kashmir. Residents say his son, known as Qasim, was among the Lashkar fighters who have more recently trickled over the border. In October 2007, Qasim was killed in an all-night gun battle with Indian soldiers on the outskirts of Bandipur. Sympathy for the guerrillas coexists with fear and frustration. When Lashkar fighters first came here, residents trekked down to the bazaar and bought provisions for them. Though they were brazen killers, people here said, the Lashkar cadres were well-behaved guests. They did not interfere in village disputes, as members of some of the other guerrilla groups did. They did not harass women. They never ordered the men and women of Bothoo to stop praying at the shrine of a female Sufi saint, as other radical Islamist groups did, even if they never prayed there themselves. But the people paid a dear price for the cadres' presence. As Lashkar established itself here, Indian security forces fought back, turning this remote village into a war zone. Women lost their husbands. Men lost limbs. For years, no one was safe. After the Indian Army set up a camp in the middle of Bothoo, the village chief said, he begged the local Lashkar commander not to attack. If Lashkar did attack, the village chief said, he feared that the army would retaliate by burning the whole place down, as it had done elsewhere. The village chief spoke on the condition of anonymity, for fear of making enemies; his brother had been taken by Lashkar fighters who accused him of being an informant, and the man's skeleton was found 21 days later. Even today, loss hovers over these tin-roofed houses perched on the hill. Memories are raw. A woman in the village, Rosha Begum Reshi, said she lost her husband after Indian soldiers accused him of being a militant. They dragged him out of the house and shot him dead. A man, Nazir Ahmad Reshi, lost a leg when members of another Pakistani militant group, Jaish-e-Muhammad, shot him as he tried to save a neighbor from their wrath. Today, at 28, he hobbles on crutches in and around his house. He cannot work. He cannot leave the village. His father, Ghulam Reshi, spoke bitterly about the fighters who crossed the border from Pakistan. He no longer cared which group they belonged to. They were not welcome. They wasted my son's life,' he said. Our own people didn't commit these atrocities. It was as though they started sending convicted murderers from the other side. Despite such frustration, many still fear that without a political solution soon to the Kashmir conflict, Kashmiris, especially the young, will grow impatient and support insurgency once again. For Kashmiris like Manzoor Ahmad Reshi, a carpenter, the prospect of more fighting inspires dread. In 1995, the army shot him in the right arm, he said. In 2002, the Jaish fighters shot him, he said, this time in the left ankle. He said he had been interrogated by the army eight times in the past 20 years. The village has been quiet lately, but the Lashkar fighters still come to the woods around the notorious cat's attic, villagers said. They carry satellite phones and are never without a full magazine of ammunition. They are fearless to the point of recklessness. The problem will not go away,' Manzoor Reshi said. Unless there is a political solution, it will diminish; it will not go away. From fatimaschool45 at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 13:18:20 2008 From: fatimaschool45 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RmF0aW1hIOCkq+CkvOCkvuCkpOCkv+CkruCkvg==?=) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:18:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] LeT financier confesses to role in Mumbai attacks Message-ID: LeT financier confesses to role in Mumbai terror attacks 21 Dec 2008, 1154 hrs IST, Times Now NEW DELHI: Alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) financier in India - Sabauddin - who along with the November 26 Mumbai terror attacks planner Fahim Ansari has revealed how terror was sponsored from across the border. Sabauddin's confessions, available with Times Now, give further evidence of Pakistan's role in the Mumbai terror attack. Arrested by the Uttar Pradesh Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) more than ten months ago in connection with the CRPF attack in Rampur, Sabauddin is believed to have helped the LeT carry out the Mumbai terror attacks, helping Fahim Ansari to reece the terror targets. Along with Ansari, Sabauddin was trained at the same camp as Ajmal Amir Kasab - the only terrorist caught alive post the 26/11 attacks. He also confessed to have met the Mumbai attacks mastermind - Zaki ur Rehman Lakhvi during an LeT training camp. A 12th standard dropout from the Aligarh University, Sabauddin revealed that it was the Gujarat riots that triggered the terror attacks. After training under two LeT commanders in Kashmir, Sabauddin said he went to Pakistan in March 2003, where he was introduced to the chief of LeT India operations - Yusuf Muzammil. In 2004, Sabauddin came to India via Nepal using a fake passport and then settled in Bangalore, where he enrolled himself in a BBA course in the city's Presidency college and eventually carried out a reecee of the IISc campus in Bangalore along with another LeT man Abu Hamza for his first assignment - the attack on the Indian Institute of Science. Sabauddin is believed to have told that it was Abu Hamza, who went to IISc on December 28, 2005 and opened fire at the conference hall and threw hand grenades. After the attack the two fled the country, only to meet again three days later in Pakistan. From kiccovich at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 13:49:10 2008 From: kiccovich at yahoo.com (francesca recchia) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:19:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Papers: Mashing-up Culture - The Rise of User-generated Content In-Reply-To: <2D0F996C8CF247EBBDE00F156137FC5E@tara> Message-ID: <533441.99081.qm@web31706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mashing-up Culture: The Rise of User-generated Content 13th-14th May, 2009 Uppsala University, Sweden Sampling and remixing, mash-ups and appropriation, wikis and podcasts are part of the digital creative milieu of the twenty-first century. Sites such as YouTube, Flickr and deviantART have offered new outlets for creativity and become hubs for innovative forms of collaboration thus playing their part in challenging modernist notions of what it means to be a creator as well as a consumer. User-generated content has draw upon the reuse of existing texts as well as new creations, bringing forward possibilities for new audiences and meanings while also raising questions about how digital texts are controlled through copyright and how intellectual property is managed. Drawing on this background, papers are invited for the two-day workshop - Mashing-up Culture: The Rise of User-generated Content - which will take place at Uppsala University, Sweden on May 13th-14th, 2009. The event will be the first organised by the European research project COUNTER which explores the socio-economic and cultural impacts of the consumption of counterfeit goods and will bring together COUNTER researchers with scholars and stakeholders to explore the current state and dilemmas surrounding copyright and the production, consumption and distribution of culture. Papers are invited which explore the possibilities and pitfalls surrounding the creative use of copyrighted materials with possible themes including but not limited to: Sampling, mash-ups, and appropriation Creativity and collaborative practices Creative industries and intellectual property Copyright, Cultural Heritage and Cultural Policy Regulating intellectual property (formal and informal protection) The aim of the workshop is to provide a creative and stimulating forum for an interdisciplinary and international discussion. We especially invite researchers at the earlier stages of their career to submit proposals coming from across the humanities and social sciences. Accepted papers will be published in the workshop proceedings and further publishing outlets will be explored following the workshop. Abstracts must be no longer than 1000 words and should consider key questions addressed in the paper, data used, theoretical perspective, as well as key findings and/or contribution to the field. The title, author(s) names, email contact(s), institutional affiliation(s) and references cited must be clearly given in the submission but is not included in the 1000 word limit. Further a 200 word biography of each author should also be appended to the abstract. Abstracts must be submitted as word processing files (not PDFs) to Eva Hemmungs Wirtén - ehw at abm.uu.se - no later than Wednesday 7th January 2009. Proposals will be evaluated on the basis of originality, quality of research, theoretical innovation and relevance to the central themes of the COUNTER project. Accepted authors will be notified by email by 30th January 2009. Successful applicants will be invited to attend the workshop at no fee and receive significant reimbursement of travel costs and workshop accommodation. Delegates are expected to participate in the whole of the two-day event. Key dates: 7th January:     Deadline for submission of abstracts and author biographies 30th January:    Successful authors notified by email 10th April:    Full papers submitted for inclusion in proceedings 24th April:     Papers circulated to workshop delegates and discussants 13th-14th May:    Mashing-up Culture workshop A document picturing some of the venues to be used for the workshop and the social events is available online. For further information on the workshop please cotact the workshop chair, Eva Hemmungs Wirtén - ehw at abm.uu.se. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:26:46 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:26:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Hanukkah, Jews in city put terror behind Message-ID: <6353c690812210456wa4b5342t59c18d2fcfb3287@mail.gmail.com> On Hanukkah, Jews in city put terror behind 21 Dec 2008, 0252 hrs IST, Priya Saxena The Times of India Link - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/On_Hanukkah_Jews_in_city_put_terror_behind/articleshow/3867749.cms NEW DELHI: The city's Jewish community is emerging from fear and sorrow induced by the Mumbai attack in which the community was targeted to celebrate its eight-day-long festival, Hanukkah. Tucked away in one of the `you-can-miss' alleys of Paharganj is the Chabad House. It is looked after by Rabbi Shenor Kupchik and his wife, Sara Kupchik, counterparts of the Nariman House kosher supervisors Rabbi Rabbi Gavriel and Rivkah Holtzberg, who were killed in the Mumbai terrorist strike. Chabad House is now abuzz with Jewishtourists and community members who are busy preparing to celebrate a miracle that happened in 162 BC. "More than 2,000 years ago, the temple of Jerusalem was defiled by Syrian King Epiphanes and worshipping of the Torahwas forbidden. A small group of Jewish Hasmoneans fought a valiant battle against the Greeks to win the temple back. In the temple, they found very little oil to light the ritual lamp even for a day. But, miraculously, the lamp kept burning for eight days without more oil being added. This is when the Jews' suffering ended and the festival of lights Hanukkah originated,'' explains 22-year-old Rabbi Yisreal Kaplan, seated next to a wooden cabinet with books written in Hebrew. On the second floor of the house, the kitchen is filled with the fragrance of Jewish bread Challah and women share recipes for the festival and Sabbath Day. "We light a candle each day during Hanukkah in the main bazaar after sunset. The Shamash (centre candle) is always lit and is used to light the other eight candles on the Menorah, the nine branch candle stand. We sing songs, play Dreidel and have special plays. We distribute chocolate coins among the kids and also among the winners of Dreidel,'' says Sara Kupchik, as she places some unbaked Challahs in the oven. Most of the traditional food is cooked in oil. "The popular dishes are `Latkes' or potato pancakes and `Sufganiya', a kind of jelly donut. Also, having dairy products and cheese is part of the Hanukkah tradition,'' said Esti Biton, a 24-year-old social work student in Israel who is in India on a holiday. The run-up to the festival has ended now, and it's time to send each other Hanukkah wishes. The feeling of insecurity from any unforeseen attacks is not visible in the hearts of these brave Jews. "My husband and I are living in the Capital for the past four months. I feel sad when I think of what happened in Mumbai. But we are not scared. What has to happen will happen, no matter which part of the world you live in. God is with us and this is a time to draw strength and move on,'' asserts 25-year-old Sara. priya.saxena at timesgroup.com -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 19:11:30 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:41:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "An Open Letter To Arundhati Roy" Message-ID: <431216.37765.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> OUTLOOK india.com Web| Dec 19, 2008 "An Open Letter To Arundhati Roy" (To call the foreign funded insurgency in Kashmir and the terror attacks across the country as justified blowback for the failures of the Indian state and civil society is both false and callous. It implies a failure of the imagination and the intellect and the complete abdication of moral responsibility by you.)   - ABHINAV KUMAR ON ARUNDHATI ROY   Dear Ms Roy,   For many years now you have enriched the public life of our nation. First, as a Booker winning novelist with a meteoric debut on the literary firmament, and then as an essayist, persistently pricking the conscience of a sometimes indifferent and ignorant nation, highlighting wide ranging issues of urgent concern. Over the years your provocative essays in the pages of Outlook magazine amount to a substantial intellectual achievement in their own right. One has not always agreed with you, but from big dams to the nuclear bomb, from the vagaries of capitalism to the dangers of American Imperialism, your writings on these important issues have left no one in any doubt about where you stand. Disagree with them as one might, your views occupied an intellectually coherent and morally compelling space in our public life. Until recently, when one read your two pieces on Kashmir and Mumbai with a growing sense of shock, anger, pity and dismay.   As a literary device, self loathing has its uses; the God of Small Things was a splendid lesson in the use of this sentiment. However I am not sure that nations and civilizations can organize their policies around this self indulgent mood. Your two pieces, 'Azadi' and '9 is Not 11' see you as usual in top form as far as style and rhetoric are concerned, but as far as substance goes, I think you have fallen into the trap of being in love with the sound and significance of your own voice. It is still a powerful voice, a seductive voice too, but because it chooses to amplify only those other voices that are prepared to sing in chorus, it is a voice bereft of any sense of moral responsibility. I am sure once again your latest writings will bring you further international recognition as a writer of conscience and conviction, striving tirelessly to expose the monstrosities of the Indian state and civilization. Dare I suggest that the Magsaysay and the Nobel Peace Prize, the Holy Grails of the seemingly rootless international intellectual might not be too far behind? But Madam, despite your great charm and greater intellect, this is a Faustian bargain. For in doing so you are doing irreparable harm to the very idea of the intellectual as a defender of virtue and morality in public life who too, like the problems you write about, much as he or she would want to, cannot be removed from the context (your favourite word) that created her, nurtured her and accorded the civic and intellectual space for her to articulate and propagate her views.   As someone who for the past 12 years has worn the Khaki uniform, as a servant of your favourite object of hate, the Indian state, I confess to a persistent sense of ambivalence and despair about the manner in which I am expected to serve. At the same time I cannot deny an equally abiding sense of pride in the importance of what we are supposed to do and of the importance of institutions in general in giving meaning and protection to what would otherwise be a society ruthless and brutal, beyond even your considerable powers of comprehension and description.Therefore, I am offended and disgusted by your incomplete, incoherent and therefore immoral portrayal of the recent upheavals of Indian history. I used to think that you articulate the pain of the silent, marginalized, oppressed masses of our country. I had no idea that you held a brief for all those who never felt anything at all not just for India in particular, but who also actively profess violent rage at the shared values of the entire human race.   According to you, everything that the police and security forces do or say whether in Kashmir, or in the war on terror, or against Naxalism, is a falsehood, where as everything that is said by 'Kashmiri Freedom Fighters', or by the harmless theologians of the Lashkar-e-Toiba and their ideological cousins of the Al Qaeda, or by the peace loving disciples of Marx and Mao living a bucolic existence in the jungles of central India, constitutes sufficient grounds to indict the Indian state and civil society in perpetuity. The people of India have always had a tradition to look up to men and woman of the arts and culture to serve as their moral compass. One really wonders what lines of logic and ethics shape your sense of moral direction.   You seem to passionately believe in and defend the 'right' of the Kashmiris to ethnic, cultural, religious and geographical exclusivism. If this is correct than why should we vilify Raj Thackeray or any other chauvinist who seeks to preserve the purity (however defined) of his people (however defined) from outsiders (also however defined)? If the Kashmiris are justified in picking up the gun to safeguard their exclusive identity, then every part of India is justified in doing so. I do hope you have taken the trouble to examine the fundamental assumptions underlying all such movements based on an assertion of a cultural identity. The creation of a hated outsider, in the case of Kashmir, the Indian; in the case of Raj Thackeray, the bhaiya of UP and Bihar; and in the case of the jihadists, anyone and everyone who does not subscribe to their virulent strain of Islam, including Muslims, is common to all these ideologies but you seem to pick and choose the bigotries you will demonize and the bigotries you will defend. Is it possible to freeze identity to a moment in time and on the basis of this demand recognition, retribution and rights for all time to come?   In your world view, the wrongs of Indian security forces of the last twenty years, and the failures of Indian state craft before it, are sufficient justifications for Kashmiri grievances, just as the wrongs of Babri Masjid, the Mumbai riots of 1993, the Gujarat riots of 2002, will justify Islamist terror against India, and the wrongs of corrupt governance and poor administration will justify Naxalite violence, in all perpetuity. Why should only these events be accepted as justification for settling scores by shedding the blood of innocents? By this logic, the Crucifixion of Christ amply justifies the Holocaust. We non white societies must all be allowed eternal rights to slaughter the Europeans for the sins of colonialism and slavery. Islam itself had a long history of violent conquest and forcible conversions, perhaps that should justify an eternal crusade or dharmyudhh against Islam? The Greeks and Romans have their own scores to settle with the Christian Church. The Latin Americans have their own grievances with Spain and Portugal.Seen this way, human history is merely a parody of the eternal theme of perpetrators and victims, and all present violence, no matter how barbaric or senseless, can be justified with reference to some past grievance, and we must allow these grievances full expression no matter what. Only then would we return to a state of original purity where all historical sins of the past and present have been fully avenged and the moral ledger as you see it stands perfectly balanced. The only thing is that after this bloody book-keeping, there may not be anyone left to enjoy the fruits of such a 'just' society.   The Indian state, whose sworn servant I am, is by no means a perfect entity. It is certainly corrupt, it is sometimes brutal and it is often indifferent to the sufferings of the weak and the powerless. But it does have a vision and aim based on certain civilizational values that are uniquely Indian. Demography and history dictates that these values have a prominently Hindu flavour. It is undeniable that these values have come under attack at times from the Hindu right as well. But even the most rabid of the Hindutva forces do not see the world united under the saffron flag by force of arms, as is the Islamist project of one world under the Green Crescent, or the Naxal project of one world under the Red Star. It would take a pretty breathless and brainless leap of logic to equate violent, local outbursts of Hindu chauvinism, abetted by the sins of commission and omission of the state apparatus, in themselves however repugnant and indefensible, with the atrocities on a global scale that were inflicted by Communism in the 20th century or the outrages that are now threatened across all parts of the world by jihadi Islam. To call the foreign funded insurgency in Kashmir and the terror attacks across the country as justified blowback for the failures of the Indian state and civil society is both false and callous. It implies a failure of the imagination and the intellect and the complete abdication of moral responsibility by you.   One could indeed forgive you, Ma'am, if you were purely an artist. Art has at the best of times a complicated relationship with truth and life. But in your avatar as a public intellectual, you cannot abandon your commitment to the demands of truth, accuracy and the ability to discriminate between the varieties of human experience and action. The liberties you have exercised in the past and continue to do today, however gratuitously and offensively, do not exist in a vacuum. I am not sure if any of these liberties would have a place in a Naxalite Utopia or a Jihadi Caliphate or even in a self-determined Kashmiri paradise that you eloquently espoused. As visions of human perfectability they are far more flawed than the vision of India that you love to denigrate. In any case, the liberties that you have recently taken with the sensibilities of proud Indians too exist in a cultural, political and constitutional context, a context that is ultimately safeguarded by men such as Hemant Karkare and Major Unnikrishnan with disregard for their own life. Remember that the next time you use your poisoned pen to vent your twisted logic on a polity that deserves better from its intellectuals.   Warm regards Abhinav Kumar   (Abhinav Kumar is a serving IPS officer. Though these are his personal views, he hopes that they also reflect the anguish of an entire fraternity of proud Indians in uniform)    http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081219&fname=abhinav&sid=1   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 19:22:41 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:52:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Time to get real" - Kamran Shafi in DAWN Message-ID: <102839.41961.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> December 16, 2008 Tuesday   "Time to get real" By Kamran Shafi   THE Indians may have doctored all of the filmed evidence of Ajmal Kasab going about shooting people in Mumbai, but why are unknown people stopping the Pakistani media from interviewing the residents of Faridkot, District Okara? On his part, President Asif Ali Zardari has said that whilst our intelligence agencies may well have had some connection to jihadi groups (read LeT) pre-9/11, they do not any more. And that if at all there were Pakistanis involved in the Mumbai attacks they were non-state actors. He also said that India had not yet provided Pakistan with enough evidence of Pakistanis being involved in the first place. Why then, good sirs, were government goons despatched to Faridkot to discourage the media from asking questions of the villagers to investigate the fact of Kasab’s residence there? Why, indeed, do the president and his minders not know that the father has admitted that the boy Kasab is indeed his son who was lured away by militants some years ago? Why do the government and its spokespersons then keep their respective heads buried in the sand, pretending not to see or hear, while the storm builds and ill winds blow all around our poor and hapless country? Why do they continue to live in denial when the tiny window of deniability has been shut tight by the government’s own foolhardy and much-repeated foolishness? We, and our many spokespersons and even more spin quacks, can stand on our heads; we can jump through hoops and turn cartwheels for all the world cares. Pakistan has long been perceived to be the fountainhead of terror and terror-related activities, no matter where in the world they are committed. The latest Bombay outrage has only solidified that perception. But let’s do some stocktaking, and see if the perception is unfair, and only a wicked Hindu/Jewish/American conspiracy as some of our media allege. For which we will go back a few years and recall, as just two examples, the beauties called Jose Padilla, who was accused of attempting to use a dirty bomb in a large American city, and Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber who allegedly tried to blow up an airliner on a transatlantic flight. Padilla was an American and a violent man who had done time for robbery and was convicted of “aggravated assault and manslaughter as a juvenile when a gang member he kicked in the head died”. Richard Reid was a Briton, a petty criminal who in the mid-1990s was “jailed for a string of muggings, for which he served sentences in a number of prisons, including Feltham young offenders’ institution in west London”. They both visited this country several times over the years before they were arrested. Jose Padilla is doing 17 years and Richard Reid something like 300 years in US prisons, and while it is no business of ours to question the validity of the sentences imposed, we have to ask just who in the world let these two into this blessed country in the first place. Not once but several times. What impelled the visa-issuing officials of the Pakistani mission to issue these two Pakistani visas? They, the both of them, had criminal records as long as my arm; they both had no occupation to speak of, unless mugging and armed robbery and murder are occupations; Richard Reid had no fixed abode; and far more than anything else they both looked utterly disreputable. How then did they walk in and out of the Land of the Pure with such ease? As is repeatedly being said on our television channels and in our newspapers, the time is here to face up to the hard facts, and to come as clean as we possibly can so that we may claim our people’s rightful place among the ranks of the good and the meek; meek used in the best possible sense of the word: humble and gentle and modest. On another note now, another example of our state’s gay abandon. I was in Peshawar on Sunday to attend a dear friend’s son’s wedding and drove back via the Ring Road on which the Nato supplies transport yards have been repeatedly attacked by gangs of men armed only with assault rifles and matches — yes, safety matches with which they set the trucks on fire. There were several such yards containing hundreds of containers stacked as in a seaport. The burnt-out hulks of trucks and containers and vehicles could be seen in at least two yards, but conspicuous by their absence were guards of any description let alone troops or police. Hmmm! This gay abandon will not serve us well for Pakistan simply cannot afford to alienate the whole world and Charlie’s aunt. If it is in a compact with Nato to let its goods transit through Pakistan safely it should honour its commitment. Bushism of the week: “I want to share with you an interesting programme — for two reasons, one, it’s interesting, and two, my wife thought of it — or has actually been involved with it; she didn’t think of it. But she thought of it for this speech.” — President George W. Bush; Washington D.C., Oct. 21, 2008, discussing PlayPumps International, which improves access to clean water in Africa. kshafi1 at yahoo.co.uk From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 21:43:57 2008 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:13:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] 9 Is Not 11: (And November isn't September) by Arundhati Roy In-Reply-To: <107170.66458.qm@web27902.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <522976.82645.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Given the difference in national narratives and the way justice is conceived and dispensed, within the geographic and logical boundary of a nation,it is ridiculous how someone can assume that people across national boundaries can hold the same opinion\perception about the justness of a particular society,specially when those two nations are India and Pakistan. In the context of prevention of terrorist attacks on India,her idea that India should look inwards is incredibly moronic. Since she probably would have difficulty in understanding anything else than Hindu fundamentalism,lets word her argument differently in a hypothetical situation. Suppose there is sufficient evidence pointing to Bajrang Dal to plan and carry out an attack on Pakistan.A Pakistani version of Arundhati Roy says that Pakistanis have to treat their minorities fairly and actually convince Babu Bajrangi of Bajrang Dal that they are doing so for the attacks to stop.The bottom line is it totally depends on Babu Bajrangi's mood and perception.Does this sound stupid enough? So,in effect,by combining a just cause with a puerile conclusion,she ends up harming the cause she stands for. --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Nishant wrote: > From: Nishant > Subject: [Reader-list] 9 Is Not 11: (And November isn't September) by Arundhati Roy > To: "Reader List" > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 1:08 AM > 9 Is Not 11 > (And November isn't September) > ARUNDHATI ROY > > > We've forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the > carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our > 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching > "India's 9/11". And like actors in a Bollywood > rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we're expected to play > our parts and say our lines, even though we know it's > all been said and done before. > > As tension in the region builds, US Senator John McCain has > warned Pakistan that if it didn't act fast to arrest the > 'Bad Guys' he had personal information that India > would launch air strikes on 'terrorist camps' in > Pakistan and that Washington could do nothing because Mumbai > was India's 9/11. > > But November isn't September, 2008 isn't 2001, > Pakistan isn't Afghanistan and India isn't America. > So perhaps we should reclaim our tragedy and pick through > the debris with our own brains and our own broken hearts so > that we can arrive at our own conclusions. > > It's odd how in the last week of November thousands of > people in Kashmir supervised by thousands of Indian troops > lined up to cast their vote, while the richest quarters of > India's richest city ended up looking like war-torn > Kupwara—one of Kashmir's most ravaged districts. > > The Mumbai attacks are only the most recent of a spate of > terrorist attacks on Indian towns and cities this year. > Ahmedabad, Bangalore, Delhi, Guwahati, Jaipur and Malegaon > have all seen serial bomb blasts in which hundreds of > ordinary people have been killed and wounded. If the police > are right about the people they have arrested as suspects, > both Hindu and Muslim, all Indian nationals, it obviously > means something's going very badly wrong in this > country. > > If you were watching television you may not have heard that > ordinary people too died in Mumbai. They were mowed down in > a busy railway station and a public hospital. The terrorists > did not distinguish between poor and rich. They killed both > with equal cold-bloodedness. The Indian media, however, was > transfixed by the rising tide of horror that breached the > glittering barricades of India Shining and spread its stench > in the marbled lobbies and crystal ballrooms of two > incredibly luxurious hotels and a small Jewish centre. > We're told one of these hotels is an icon of the city of > Mumbai. That's absolutely true. It's an icon of the > easy, obscene injustice that ordinary Indians endure every > day. On a day when the newspapers were full of moving > obituaries by beautiful people about the hotel rooms they > had stayed in, the gourmet restaurants they loved > (ironically, one was called Kandahar), and the staff who > served them, a small box on the top left-hand corner > in the inner pages of a national newspaper (sponsored by a > pizza company I think) said 'Hungry, kya?' (Hungry > eh?). It then, with the best of intentions I'm sure, > informed its readers that on the international hunger index, > India ranked below Sudan and Somalia. But of course this > isn't that war. That one's still being fought in the > Dalit bastis of our villages, on the banks of the Narmada > and the Koel Karo rivers; in the rubber estate in Chengara; > in the villages of Nandigram, Singur, Lalgarh in West > Bengal; in Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa; and the slums > and shantytowns of our gigantic cities. That war isn't > on TV. Yet. So maybe, like everyone else, we should deal > with the one that is. > > There is a fierce, unforgiving fault line that runs through > the contemporary discourse on terrorism. On one side > (let's call it Side A) are those who see terrorism, > especially 'Islamist' terrorism, as a hateful, > insane scourge that spins on its own axis, in its own orbit > and has nothing to do with the world around it, nothing to > do with history, geography or economics. Therefore, Side A > says, to try and place it in a political context, or even > try to understand it, amounts to justifying it and is a > crime in itself.Side B believes that though nothing can ever > excuse or justify terrorism, it exists in a particular time, > place and political context, and to refuse to see that will > only aggravate the problem and put more and more people in > harm's way. Which is a crime in itself. > > The sayings of Hafiz Saeed, who founded the Lashkar-e-Toiba > (Army of the Pure) in 1990 and who belongs to the hardline > Salafi tradition of Islam, certainly bolster the case of > Side A. Hafiz Saeed approves of suicide bombing, hates Jews, > Shias and Democracy, and believes that jehad should be waged > until Islam, hisIslam, rules the world. Among the things he > has said are: > > "There cannot be any peace while India remains intact. > Cut them, cut them so much that they kneel before you and > ask for mercy." > > And, "India has shown us this path. We would like to > give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate in the > same way by killing the Hindus, just like it is killing the > Muslims in Kashmir." > > But where would Side A accommodate the sayings of Babu > Bajrangi of Ahmedabad, India, who sees himself as a > democrat, not a terrorist? He was one of the major lynchpins > of the 2002 Gujarat genocide and has said (on camera): > > "We didn't spare a single Muslim shop, we set > everything on fire...we hacked, burned, set on fire...we > believe in setting them on fire because these bastards > don't want to be cremated, they're afraid of it.... > I have just one last wish...let me be sentenced to death.... > I don't care if I'm hanged...just give me two days > before my hanging and I will go and have a field day in > Juhapura where seven or eight lakhs of these people stay.... > I will finish them off...let a few more of them die...at > least twenty-five thousand to fifty thousand should > die." > > And where, in Side A's scheme of things, would we place > the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh bible, We, or Our Nationhood > Defined by M.S. Golwalkar 'Guruji', who became head > of the RSS in 1944. It says: > > "Ever since that evil day, when Moslems first landed > in Hindustan, right up to the present moment, the Hindu > Nation has been gallantly fighting on to take on these > despoilers. The Race Spirit has been awakening." > > Or: > > "To keep up the purity of its race and culture, > Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the > Semitic races—the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been > manifested here...a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn > and profit by." > > Of course, Muslims are not the only people in the gun > sights of the Hindu Right. Dalits have been consistently > targeted. Recently in Kandhamal in Orissa, Christians were > the target of two-and-a-half months of violence which left > more than 40 dead. Forty thousand people have been driven > from their homes, half of whom now live in refugee camps. > > All these years, Hafiz Saeed has lived the life of a > respectable man in Lahore as the head of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, > which many believe is a front organisation for the > Lashkar-e-Toiba. He continued to recruit young boys for his > own bigoted jehad with his twisted, fiery sermons. On > December 11, the UN imposed sanctions on the Jamaat-ud-Dawa > and the Pakistani government succumbed to international > pressure, putting Hafiz Saeed under house arrest. Babu > Bajrangi, however, is out on bail and continues to live the > life of a respectable man in Gujarat. A couple of years > after the genocide, he left the VHP to join the Shiv Sena. > Narendra Modi, Bajrangi's former mentor, is still the > chief minister of Gujarat. So the man who presided over the > Gujarat genocide was re-elected twice, and is deeply > respected by India's biggest corporate houses, Reliance > and Tata. Suhel Seth, a TV impresario and corporate > spokesperson, has recently said, "Modi is God." > The policemen who > supervised and sometimes even assisted the rampaging Hindu > mobs in Gujarat have been rewarded and promoted.The RSS has > 45,000 branches, its own range of charities and seven > million volunteers preaching its doctrine of hate across > India. They include Narendra Modi, but also former prime > minister A.B. Vajpayee, current Leader of the Opposition > L.K. Advani, and a host of other senior politicians, > bureaucrats and police and intelligence officers. > > And if that's not enough to complicate our picture of > secular democracy, we should place on record that there are > plenty of Muslim organisations within India preaching their > own narrow bigotry. > > So, on balance, if I had to choose between Side A and Side > B, I'd pick Side B. We need context. Always. > > In this nuclear subcontinent, that context is Partition. > The Radcliffe Line which separated India and Pakistan and > tore through states, districts, villages, fields, > communities, water systems, homes and families, was drawn > virtually overnight. It was Britain's final, parting > kick to us. Partition triggered the massacre of more than a > million people and the largest migration of a human > population in contemporary history. Eight million > people—Hindus fleeing the new Pakistan, Muslims fleeing > the new kind of India—left their homes with nothing but > the clothes on their backs. Each of those people carries and > passes down a story of unimaginable pain, hate, horror, but > yearning too. That wound, those torn but still unsevered > muscles, that blood and those splintered bones still lock us > together in a close embrace of hatred, terrifying > familiarity but also love. It has left Kashmir trapped in a > nightmare from which it can't seem to emerge, a > nightmare that > has claimed more than 60,000 lives. Pakistan, the Land of > the Pure, became an Islamic republic, and then, very quickly > a corrupt, violent military state, openly intolerant of > other faiths. India on the other hand declared herself an > inclusive, secular democracy. It was a magnificent > undertaking, but Babu Bajrangi's predecessors had been > hard at work since the 1920s, dripping poison into > India's bloodstream, undermining that idea of India even > before it was born. By 1990, they were ready to make a bid > for power. In 1992, Hindu mobs exhorted by L.K. Advani > stormed the Babri Masjid and demolished it. By 1998, the BJP > was in power at the Centre. The US War on Terror put the > wind in their sails. It allowed them to do exactly as they > pleased, even to commit genocide and then present their > fascism as a legitimate form of chaotic democracy. This > happened at a time when India had opened its huge market to > international finance, and it was in the interests of > international corporations and the media houses they owned > to project it as a country that could do no wrong. That gave > Hindu Nationalists all the impetus and the impunity they > needed. This, then, is the larger historical context of > terrorism in the subcontinent, and of the Mumbai attacks. > > It shouldn't surprise us that Hafiz Saeed of the > Lashkar-e-Toiba is from Shimla (India) and L.K. Advani of > the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is from Sindh (Pakistan). > > In much the same way as it did after the 2001 Parliament > attack, the 2002 burning of the Sabarmati Express and the > 2006 bombing of the Samjhauta Express, the Government of > India announced that it has 'incontrovertible' > evidence that the Lashkar-e-Toiba backed by Pakistan's > ISI was behind the Mumbai strikes. The Lashkar has denied > involvement, but remains the prime accused. According to the > police and intelligence agencies, the Lashkar operates in > India through an organisation called the 'Indian > Mujahideen'. Two Indian nationals—Sheikh Mukhtar > Ahmed, a Special Police Officer working for the Jammu and > Kashmir Police, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Calcutta in > West Bengal—have been arrested in connection with the > Mumbai attacks. So already the neat accusation against > Pakistan is getting a little messy.Almost always, when these > stories unspool, they reveal a complicated global network of > foot-soldiers, trainers, recruiters, middlemen and > undercover > intelligence and counter-intelligence operatives, working > not just on both sides of the India-Pakistan border, but in > several countries simultaneously. In today's world, > trying to pin down the provenance of a terrorist strike and > isolate it within the borders of a single nation-state is > very much like trying to pin down the provenance of > corporate money. It's almost impossible. > > In circumstances like these, air strikes to 'take > out' terrorist camps may take out the camps, but > certainly will not 'take out' the terrorists. And > neither will war. (Also, in our bid for the moral high > ground, let's try not to forget that the Liberation > Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the LTTE of neighbouring Sri Lanka, > one of the world's most deadly terrorist groups, were > trained by the Indian army.) > > > Thanks largely to the part it was forced to play as > America's ally, first in its war in support of the > Afghan Islamists and then in its war against them, Pakistan, > whose territory is reeling under these contradictions, is > careening towards civil war. As recruiting agents for > America's jehad against the Soviet Union, it was the job > of the Pakistan army and the ISI to nurture and channel > funds to Islamic fundamentalist organisations. Having wired > up these Frankenstein's monsters and released them into > the world, the US expected it could rein them in like pet > mastiffs whenever it wanted to. Certainly it did not expect > them to come calling in the heart of the Homeland on > September 11. So once again, Afghanistan had to be violently > re-made. Now the debris of a re-ravaged Afghanistan has > washed up on Pakistan's borders. Nobody, least of all > the Pakistan government, denies that it is presiding over a > country that is threatening to implode. The terrorist > training camps, the fire-breathing mullahs and the maniacs > who believe that Islam will, or should, rule the world is > mostly the detritus of two Afghan wars. Their ire rains down > on the Pakistan government and Pakistani civilians as much, > if not more, than it does on India. If at this point India > decides to go to war, perhaps the descent of the whole > region into chaos will be complete. The debris of a > bankrupt, destroyed Pakistan will wash up on India's > shores, endangering us as never before. If Pakistan > collapses, we can look forward to having millions of > 'non-state actors' with an arsenal of nuclear > weapons at their disposal as neighbours. It's hard to > understand why those who steer India's ship are so keen > to replicate Pakistan's mistakes and call damnation upon > this country by inviting the United States to further meddle > clumsily and dangerously in our extremely complicated > affairs. A superpower never has allies. It only has agents. > > On the plus side, the advantage of going to war is that > it's the best way for India to avoid facing up to the > serious trouble building on our home front. > > The Mumbai attacks were broadcast live (and exclusive!) on > all or most of our 67 24-hour news channels and god knows > how many international ones. TV anchors in their studios and > journalists at 'ground zero' kept up an endless > stream of excited commentary. Over three days and three > nights, we watched in disbelief as a small group of very > young men armed with guns and gadgets exposed the > powerlessness of the police, the elite National Security > Guard and the marine commandos of this supposedly mighty, > nuclear-powered nation. While they did this, they > indiscriminately massacred unarmed people, in railway > stations, hospitals and luxury hotels, unmindful of their > class, caste, religion or nationality.Part of the > helplessness of the security forces had to do with having to > worry about hostages. In other situations, in Kashmir for > example, their tactics are not so sensitive. Whole buildings > are blown up. Human shields are used. (The US and Israeli > armies don't > hesitate to send cruise missiles into buildings and drop > daisy cutters on wedding parties in Palestine, Iraq and > Afghanistan.) But this was different. And it was on TV. > > The boy-terrorists' nonchalant willingness to > kill—and be killed—mesmerised their international > audience. They delivered something different from the usual > diet of suicide bombings and missile attacks that people > have grown inured to on the news. Here was something new. > Die Hard 25. The gruesome performance went on and on. TV > ratings soared. Ask any television magnate or corporate > advertiser who measures broadcast time in seconds, not > minutes, what that's worth. > > Eventually the killers died and died hard, all but one. > (Perhaps, in the chaos, some escaped. We may never know.) > Throughout the stand-off, the terrorists made no demands and > expressed no desire to negotiate. Their purpose was to kill > people and inflict as much damage as they could before they > were killed themselves. They left us completely bewildered. > When we say 'Nothing can justify terrorism', what > most of us mean is that nothing can justify the taking of > human life. We say this because we respect life, because we > think it's precious. So what are we to make of those who > care nothing for life, not even their own? The truth is that > we have no idea what to make of them, because we can sense > that even before they've died, they've journeyed to > another world where we cannot reach them. > > One TV channel (India TV) broadcast a phone conversation > with one of the attackers, who called himself 'Imran > Babar'. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the > conversation, but the things he talked about were the things > contained in the 'terror e-mails' that were sent out > before several other bomb attacks in India. Things we > don't want to talk about any more: the demolition of the > Babri Masjid in 1992, the genocidal slaughter of Muslims in > Gujarat in 2002, the brutal repression in Kashmir. > "You're surrounded," the anchor told him. > "You are definitely going to die. Why don't you > surrender?" "We die every day," he replied in > a strange, mechanical way. "It's better to live one > day as a lion and then die this way." He didn't > seem to want to change the world. He just seemed to want to > take it down with him. > > If the men were indeed members of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, why > didn't it matter to them that a large number of their > victims were Muslim, or that their action was likely to > result in a severe backlash against the Muslim community in > India whose rights they claim to be fighting for? Terrorism > is a heartless ideology, and like most ideologies that have > their eye on the Big Picture, individuals don't figure > in its calculations except as collateral damage. It has > always been a part of—and often even the aim > of—terrorist strategy to exacerbate a bad situation in > order to expose hidden fault lines. The blood of > 'martyrs' irrigates terrorism. Hindu terrorists need > dead Hindus, Communist terrorists need dead proletarians, > Islamist terrorists need dead Muslims. The dead become the > demonstration, the proof of victimhood, which is central to > the project. A single act of terrorism is not in itself > meant to achieve military victory; at best it is meant to be > a > catalyst that triggers something else, something much > larger than itself, a tectonic shift, a realignment. The act > itself is theatre, spectacle and symbolism, and today, the > stage on which it pirouettes and performs its acts of > bestiality is Live TV.Even as the Mumbai terrorists were > being condemned by TV anchors, the effectiveness of their > action was magnified a thousand-fold by TV broadcasts. > > > Through the endless hours of analysis and the endless op-ed > essays, in India at least there has been very little mention > of the elephants in the room: Kashmir, Gujarat and the > demolition of the Babri Masjid. Instead, we had retired > diplomats and strategic experts debate the pros and cons of > a war against Pakistan. We had the rich threatening not to > pay their taxes unless their security was guaranteed (is it > alright for the poor to remain unprotected?). We had people > suggest that the government step down and each state in > India be handed over to a separate corporation. We had the > death of former prime minister V.P. Singh, the hero of > Dalits and lower castes and villain of upper-caste Hindus, > pass without a mention. We had Suketu Mehta, author of > Maximum City and co-writer of the Bollywood film Mission > Kashmir, give us his version of George Bush's famous > 'Why They Hate Us' speech. His analysis of why > "religious bigots, both Hindu and Muslim", hate > Mumbai: > "Perhaps because Mumbai stands for lucre, profane > dreams and an indiscriminate openness." His > prescription: "The best answer to the terrorists is to > dream bigger, make even more money, and visit Mumbai more > than ever." Didn't George Bush ask Americans to go > out and shop after 9/11? Ah yes. 9/11, the day we can't > seem to get away from. > > Though one chapter of horror in Mumbai has ended, another > might have just begun. Day after day, a powerful, vociferous > section of the Indian elite, goaded by marauding TV anchors > who make Fox News look almost radical and left-wing, have > taken to mindlessly attacking politicians, all politicians, > glorifying the police and the army, and virtually asking for > a police state. It isn't surprising that those who have > grown plump on the pickings of democracy (such as it is) > should now be calling for a police state. The era of > 'pickings' is long gone. We're now in the era of > Grabbing by Force, and democracy has a terrible habit of > getting in the way. > > Dangerous, stupid television flash cards like the Police > are Good, Politicians are Bad/ Chief Executives are Good, > Chief Ministers are Bad/ Army is Good, Government is Bad/ > India is Good, Pakistan is Bad are being bandied about by TV > channels that have already whipped their viewers into a > state of almost uncontrollable hysteria. > > Tragically, this regression into intellectual infancy comes > at a time when people in India were beginning to see that > the business of terrorism is a hall of mirrors in which > victims and perpetrators sometimes exchange roles. It's > an understanding that the people of Kashmir, given their > dreadful experiences of the last 20 years, have honed to an > exquisite art. On the mainland we're still learning. (If > Kashmir won't willingly integrate into India, it's > beginning to look as though India will > integrate/disintegrate into Kashmir.) > > It was after the 2001 Parliament attack that the first > serious questions began to be raised. A campaign by a group > of lawyers and activists exposed how innocent people had > been framed by the police and the press, how evidence was > fabricated, how witnesses lied, how due process had been > criminally violated at every stage of the investigation. > Eventually the courts acquitted two out of the four accused, > including S.A.R. Geelani, the man whom the police claimed > was the mastermind of the operation. A third, Shaukat Guru, > was acquitted of all the charges brought against him but was > then convicted for a fresh, comparatively minor offence.The > Supreme Court upheld the death sentence of another of the > accused, Mohammad Afzal. In its judgement, the court > acknowledged that there was no proof that Mohammad Afzal > belonged to any terrorist group, but went on to say, quite > shockingly, "The collective conscience of the society > will only be satisfied if capital > punishment is awarded to the offender. " Even today > we don't really know who the terrorists that attacked > Indian Parliament were and who they worked for. > > More recently, on September 19 this year, we had the > controversial 'encounter' at Batla House in Jamia > Nagar, Delhi, where the Special Cell of the Delhi police > gunned down two Muslim students in their rented flat under > seriously questionable circumstances, claiming that they > were responsible for serial bombings in Delhi, Jaipur and > Ahmedabad in 2008. An Assistant Commissioner of Police, > Mohan Chand Sharma, who played a key role in the Parliament > attack investigation, lost his life as well. He was one of > India's many 'encounter specialists', known and > rewarded for having summarily executed several > 'terrorists'. There was an outcry against the > Special Cell from a spectrum of people, ranging from > eyewitnesses in the local community to senior Congress Party > leaders, students, journalists, lawyers, academics and > activists, all of whom demanded a judicial inquiry into the > incident. In response, the BJP and L.K. Advani lauded Mohan > Chand Sharma as a > 'Braveheart' and launched a concerted campaign in > which they targeted those who had dared to question the > integrity of the police, saying it was 'suicidal' > and calling them 'anti-national'. Of course, there > has been no inquiry. > > Only days after the Batla House event, another story about > 'terrorists' surfaced in the news. In a report > submitted to the court, the CBI said that a team from > Delhi's Special Cell (the same team that led the Batla > House encounter, including Mohan Chand Sharma) had abducted > two innocent men, Irshad Ali and Moarif Qamar, in December > 2005, planted 2 kg of RDX and two pistols on them, and then > arrested them as 'terrorists' who belonged to Al > Badr (which operates out of Kashmir). Ali and Qamar, who > have spent years in jail, are only two examples out of > hundreds of Muslims who have been similarly jailed, tortured > and even killed on false charges. > > This pattern changed in October 2008 when Maharashtra's > Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS), which was investigating the > September 2008 Malegaon blasts, arrested a Hindu preacher, > Sadhvi Pragya; a self-styled godman, Swami Dayanand Pande; > and Lt Col Prasad Purohit, a serving officer of the Indian > army. All the arrested belong to Hindu Nationalist > organisations, including a Hindu supremacist group called > Abhinav Bharat. The Shiv Sena, the BJP and the RSS condemned > the Maharashtra ATS, and vilified its chief, Hemant Karkare, > claiming he was part of a political conspiracy and declaring > that "Hindus could not be terrorists". L.K. Advani > changed his mind about his policy on the police and made > rabble-rousing speeches to huge gatherings, in which he > denounced the ATS for daring to cast aspersions on holy men > and women. > > On November 25, newspapers reported that the ATS was > investigating the high-profile VHP chief Praveen > Togadia's possible role in the Malegaon blasts. The next > day, in an extraordinary twist of fate, Hemant Karkare was > killed in the Mumbai attacks. The chances are that the new > chief, whoever he is, will find it hard to withstand the > political pressure that is bound to be brought on him over > the Malegaon investigation. > > While the Sangh parivar does not seem to have come to a > final decision over whether or not it is anti-national and > suicidal to question the police, Arnab Goswami, anchorperson > of Times Now television channel, has stepped up to the > plate.He has taken to naming, demonising and openly heckling > people who have dared to question the integrity of the > police and armed forces. My name and the name of the > well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan have come up several > times. At one point, while interviewing a former police > officer, Arnab Goswami turned to the camera; "Arundhati > Roy and Prashant Bhushan," he said, "I hope you > are watching this. We think you are disgusting." For a > TV anchor to do this in an atmosphere as charged and as > frenzied as the one that prevails today amounts to > incitement as well as threat, and would probably in > different circumstances have cost a journalist his or her > job. > > So according to a man aspiring to be India's next prime > minister, and another who is the public face of a mainstream > TV channel, citizens have no right to raise questions about > the police. This in a country with a shadowy history of > suspicious terror attacks, murky investigations, and fake > 'encounters'. This in a country that boasts of the > highest number of custodial deaths in the world and yet > refuses to ratify the International Covenant on Torture. A > country where the ones who make it to torture chambers are > the lucky ones because at least they've escaped being > 'encountered' by our encounter specialists. A > country where the line between the Underworld and the > Encounter Specialists virtually does not exist. > > How should those of us whose hearts have been sickened by > the knowledge of all of this view the Mumbai attacks, and > what are we to do about them? There are those who point out > that US strategy has been successful inasmuch as the United > States has not suffered a major attack on its home ground > since 9/11. However, some would say that what America is > suffering now is far worse. If the idea behind the 9/11 > terror attacks was to goad America into showing its true > colours, what greater success could the terrorists have > asked for? The US army is bogged down in two unwinnable > wars, which have made the United States the most hated > country in the world. Those wars have contributed greatly to > the unravelling of the American economy and, who knows, > perhaps eventually the American empire. (Could it be that > battered, bombed Afghanistan, the graveyard of the Soviet > Union, will be the undoing of this one too?) Hundreds of > thousands of people, including thousands of > American soldiers, have lost their lives in Iraq and > Afghanistan. The frequency of terrorist strikes on US > allies/agents (including India) and US interests in the rest > of the world has increased dramatically since 9/11. George > Bush, the man who led the US response to 9/11, is a despised > figure not just internationally but also by his own people. > Who can possibly claim that the United States is winning the > war on terror? > > Homeland security has cost the US government billions of > dollars. Few countries, certainly not India, can afford that > sort of price tag. But even if we could, the fact is that > this vast homeland of ours cannot be secured or policed in > the way the United States has been. It's not that kind > of homeland. We have a hostile nuclear weapons state that is > slowly spinning out of control as a neighbour, we have a > military occupation in Kashmir, and a shamefully persecuted, > impoverished minority of more than a hundred and fifty > million Muslims who are being targeted as a community and > pushed to the wall, whose young see no justice on the > horizon, and who, were they to totally lose hope and > radicalise, end up as a threat not just to India, but to the > whole world. If 10 men can hold off the NSG commandos and > the police for three days, and if it takes half-a-million > soldiers to hold down the Kashmir Valley, do the math. What > kind of Homeland Security can secure India? > > Nor for that matter will any other quick fix.Anti-terrorism > laws are not meant for terrorists; they're for people > that governments don't like. That's why they have a > conviction rate of less than two per cent. They're just > a means of putting inconvenient people away without bail for > a long time and eventually letting them go. Terrorists like > those who attacked Mumbai are hardly likely to be deterred > by the prospect of being refused bail or being sentenced to > death. It's what they want. > > What we're experiencing now is blowback, the cumulative > result of decades of quick fixes and dirty deeds. The > carpet's squelching under our feet. > > The only way to contain (it would be naive to say end) > terrorism is to look at the monster in the mirror. We're > standing at a fork in the road. One sign says > 'Justice', the other 'Civil War'. > There's no third sign and there's no going back. > Choose. > > http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081222&fname=ARoy+(F)&sid=1 > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 22:44:55 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:14:55 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? References: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all. I would like to respond to the claim in the below mail that "an insecurity has set in (Muslim) community" after the death of Karkare's assassination. Since the statement is in the present tense, it belies the earlier claims of the Muslim bourgeoisie that Islam/Muslims have always been insecured in India. Sense of insecurity of Islam has been there in those who controled the affairs of Islam even before Prophet Mohammed. Interestingly, this community is more in danger where it should be the most secured. Of all places, Islam is supposedly in danger in Turkey. Muslim people sitting in the US and Arab countries are feeling the insecurity, version 2 and above, of the community after RSS/Israel/US/British agents hired Pakistani assassins to get rid of Karkare. Amongst the masses in India though, where the matter is more of a survival than of a faith, life was as tough as ever even when Karkare was conducting the impartial probe in the involvement of Hindutva organizations in some bomb blasts. For the poor muslims, the life has been as treacherous irrespective of Hemant Karkare, Salman Rushdie, Taslima Nasreen, Danish cartoonist etc. Jihadis have not been able to recruit poor Muslims as martyrs for themselves as yet, but as Muslim bourgeoisie succeeds in converting this murmur of sense of insecurity to a ugly crescendo, they might achieve that soon. Once they have managed to do that, the poor Kasabs of India will do their dirty job of fighting the qafirs. The Muslim bourgeoisie will not need to sacrifice their doctors and their engineers in this dirty holy war. Let us increase this crescendo so that the government of India gives us some special packages to bring the community out of "sense of insecurity". After all all these perks are going to be gobbled up by the bourgeoisie, not because they need them but because they control the sense of insecurity. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fatima फ़ातिमा" To: Cc: "Reader-list" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks for defending me earlier. I still did not say that I believe in > the conspiracy theory. My contention simply was that things are not so > black-and-white as they are being made so. In any case, Antulay also > said "Of course Karkare was killed by the terrorists - even a fool > knows that... but there is ...a terrorism plus something". We all know > that the terrorists came from Pakistan, and Karkare was in any case on > their hit-list. But some people are also saying that with his murder, > there has been a major setback to the investigation in the Malegaon > blast accused case, which is rather sad. And the BJP-family has > certainly gained out of it. When I said many Muslims believe in the > conspiracy theory, there maybe some truth in it - you have to come to > a Muslim dominated area and talk to some people to know what I am > talking about. But once again, having doubts and conspiracies doesn't > prove that they are anti-national. I am sure they are also pained by > the death of so many innocent people (and many who died in Mumbai were > Muslim), but there is some uneasiness about accepting the lead story > as truth. This also doesn't mean a denial-mode, but its simply an > insecurity that has set in in the community. > > No one should believe anything as truth until and unless things have > been probed properly. I think even Shuddha is saying the same thing. > (I wonder if you would call him too anti-India). When we talk about a > probe, most assumptions and investigations start with DOUBTS. But why > does one have to take doubt as a sign of anti-nationalism. At the > moment we are all bathing in a sea of euphoric patriotism, and cannot > tolerate any DOUBT. But yes, as Shuddha says, one has to be careful > and cautious about what one says and doesn't say. > > So I guess I should keep quite even I have doubts in mind, since I > have to prove my affiliation to the nation. > > Fatima > > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: >> Dear Fatima >> >> Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an intemperate >> comment directed at you over your "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting. >> >> Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that you do >> not >> want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have done exactly the >> opposite. >> >> On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have this >> doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of the Muslims >> of >> India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim? >> >> Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given atmosphere >> post Mumbai Terror Attacks. >> >> Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by Pakistanis. >> Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy voice for those >> Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the Pakistani connection to >> the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the proxy voice for those Pakistanis >> who want to divert the attention away from the Pakistani connection to >> the >> Mumbai Terror Attacks. >> >> Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position >> unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately. >> >> Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress partyman. >> He >> could always have discussed the "suspicions about Karkare's death" >> internally withing the Party / Government. Both would have been more than >> keen to enquire into or exploit that suspicion at the appropiate time >> since >> it would mean discrediting / attacking the Hindutvavaadis. >> >> You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. >> That >> makes your motives Anti-India. >> >> You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking the >> same >> questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith Muslims might >> not >> be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might think that thia is not the >> point of time when such questions should be asked on the basis of some >> vague >> 'conspiracy theory'. >> >> Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you): >> >> """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence >> ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into >> the >> involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only >> natural >> that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only >> raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he >> was >> eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, >> might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died >> but >> such suspicions are not illogical. """" >> >> Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that dramatic >> statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List. >> >> I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus >> Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: >> >> From: Fatima फ़ातिमा >> Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? >> To: "Reader-list" >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM >> >> Dear friends >> I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me >> think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all >> including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a >> majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does >> not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything >> to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering >> if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same >> question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? >> >> Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" >> >> >> From: "zohra javed" >> To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com >> >> A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS >> Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak >> from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though >> for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially >> into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were >> killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point >> and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the >> issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this >> point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his >> party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe >> into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of >> sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much >> appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice >> rather than accepting a political charity. >> Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the >> Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I >> wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit >> to begin with. It is very important to understand that >> laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of >> the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter >> to make election issues out of them or score political and social >> points. Indeed that political party is best which can >> implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double >> standards. >> The common people have time and again proved their innocence and >> smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every >> time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up >> beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical >> is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either >> foolish or a traitor. >> Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". >> Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true >> answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the >> time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. >> >> And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as >> anti-national. >> Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. >> Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many >> blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our >> investigating agencies, media and the political parties do >> not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many >> loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put >> forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more >> thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there >> was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection >> with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he >> allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". >> >> If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and >> integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the >> common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers >> in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for >> one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the >> common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay >> said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi >> loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could >> even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks >> cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his >> community. >> >> The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we >> supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders >> rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, >> are really true to their religion? Can there at all be >> any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on >> earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the >> "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a >> person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a >> pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every >> detail into account before coming to conclusions as we >> must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an >> unbiased probe into the "business of terror". >> >> Zohra Javed >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 00:57:41 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:27:41 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] How to Win Islam Over (NY Times) Message-ID: <923F2A792AFE461AA5532CE7E8634B07@tara> OP-ED CONTRIBUTORS TRANSITIONS. How to Win Islam Over. By OLIVIER ROY and JUSTIN VAISSE. Olivier Roy is a visiting professor at the University of California at Berkeley. Justin Vaisse is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.. DURING the presidential campaign, Barack Obama said he would convene a conference of Muslim leaders from around the world within his first year in office. Recently aides have said he may give a speech from a Muslim capital in his first 100 days. His hope, he has said, is to 'make clear that we are not at war with Islam,' to describe to Muslims 'what our values and our interests are' and to 'insist that they need to help us to defeat the terrorist threats that are there. This idea of trying to reconcile Islam and the West is well intentioned, of course. But the premise is wrong. Such an initiative would reinforce the all-too-accepted but false notion that 'Islam' and 'the West' are distinct entities with utterly different values. Those who want to promote dialogue and peace between 'civilizations' or 'cultures' concede at least one crucial point to those who, like Osama bin Laden, promote a clash of civilizations: that separate civilizations do exist. They seek to reverse the polarity, replacing hostility with sympathy, but they are still following Osama bin Laden's narrative. Instead, Mr. Obama, the first 'post-racial' president, can do better. He can use his power to transform perceptions to the long-term advantage of the United States and become a 'post-civilizational' president. The page he should try to turn is not that of a supposed war between America and Islam, but the misconception of a monolithic Islam being the source of the main problems on the planet: terrorism, wars, nuclear proliferation, insurgencies and the like. This will be an uphill battle, since this view of a monolithic, dangerous Islam has gained wide acceptance. Whether we're talking about civil war in Iraq, insurgency in Afghanistan, unrest in Kashmir, conflict in Israel-Palestine, nuclear ambitions in Iran, rebellion in the Philippines or urban violence in France, people routinely -- but wrongly -- single out Islam as the explanation, rather than nationalism or separatism, political ambitions or social ills. This in turn reinforces the idea of a global struggle. Even the recent attacks in Mumbai, India, cannot be seen primarily under the prism of religion. What the terrorists and supporters of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistani militant group believed to have carried out the attacks, have achieved is to make normal relations between India and Pakistan impossible for the foreseeable future. Such groups have always used regional conflicts like that in Kashmir to hold on to power. The truth is, Islam explains very little. There are as many bloody conflicts outside of regions where Islam has a role as inside them. There are more Muslims living under democracies than autocracies. There is no less or no more economic development in Muslim countries than in their equivalent non-Muslim neighbors. And, more important, there exist as many varieties of Muslims as there are adherents of other religions. This is why Mr. Obama should not give credence to the existence of an Islam that could supposedly be represented by its 'leaders. Who are these leaders that President Obama would convene anyway? If he picks heads of state, he will effectively concede Osama bin Laden's point that Islam is a political reality. If he picks clerics, he will put himself in the awkward position of implicitly representing Christianity -- or maybe secularism. In any case, he would meet only self-appointed representatives, most of them probably coming from the Arab world, where a minority of Muslims live. And such a conference would have negative effects for Western Muslims. By lending weight to the idea of a natural link between Islam and terrorism, it would reinforce the perception that they constitute a sort of foreign body in Western societies, or even some sort of fifth column. Most Western Muslims want first and foremost to be considered as full citizens of their respective Western country, not part of any diaspora. And most of them share the so-called Western values. If the idea of a Muslim summit meeting should be dropped as soon as possible, then what should Mr. Obama do? No more -- but also no less -- than carrying out the ambitious program he put forward during the campaign: closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay, withdrawing from Iraq, banning torture, pushing for peace in the Middle East and so forth. These are not in any sense concessions to 'Islam,' but on the contrary a reassertion that American values are universal and do not suffer any kind of double standard, and that they could be shared by atheists, Christians, Muslims and others. Barack Obama should also put more faith in the capacity of the rest of the world to recognize that America has turned the page on eight catastrophic years during which its values have often been betrayed. After all, Americans have just elected a president whose middle name is Hussein. That name goes a long way with many Muslims. . DRAWING (DRAWING BY NICK DEWAR) . From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 01:37:40 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:07:40 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Full freedom for Hicks, former Australian lashkar operative (NY Times) Message-ID: Full Freedom for Former Australian Detainee. By RAYMOND BONNER. SYDNEY, Australia. David Hicks became a completely free man at one minute past midnight Sunday morning, for the first time since being picked up by the Americans in Afghanistan seven years ago this month and later becoming the first terrorism suspect to be sentenced by a military commission at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. When he gets out of bed, it will be a new era for him,' said his father, Terry Hicks, who was preparing for the first Christmas with his son, now 33, since he went off to Pakistan in 1999. It's going to be quite exciting,' Terry Hicks said about Christmas with his son, at their home in Adelaide. But given his son's 'mental state,' he was not planning anything special. We are just going to try to be as normal as possible,' he said in a telephone interview from Adelaide. Until Sunday morning, Mr. Hicks was under a control order imposed by the police last December. He was required to be home from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.; required to report to the police twice a week; prohibited from leaving his home state without police permission; and limited to one e-mail account, one cellphone and one land line. A high-school dropout, Mr. Hicks had become an adventurer in his late teens, skinning kangaroos in the Australian outback and training horses in Japan, and he was planning to ride the Silk Road on horseback. But he fell in first with Lashkar-e-Taiba, which was backed by the Pakistani government at the time -- the group is now suspected of planning the attacks on Mumbai, India, last month. He then made his way to Afghanistan, where he fought alongside the Taliban. Mr. Hicks's case was highly politicized. For years, the Australian government did virtually nothing while he was at Guantanamo Bay. Then, under mounting public outcry, the government put pressure on the Bush administration to release Mr. Hicks or give him a trial. Under a plea agreement in March 2007, Mr. Hicks pleaded guilty to one count of providing material support for terrorism and was sentenced to nine months in prison, which he was allowed to serve in Australia. When he was released, the police unexpectedly imposed the control order. The control order expired at midnight Saturday, and the police have said they are not going to renew it. The end of these restrictions now allows Mr. Hicks to turn more of his attention to rehabilitation, his father said. He said his son now has great difficulty concentrating. He has a part-time job, his father said, but finds it difficult to work more than a couple of days because of the trouble he has retaining information or remembering his tasks for the next day. Mr. Hicks is also now free to speak to the news media, but his father has said he is not yet prepared to do so. He wants to get himself right first,' his father said. He's got a lot of issues. He wants to be more confident, more assured. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 01:43:21 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:13:21 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Bush Shoe' Gives a Turk Firm Footing In the Market Message-ID: Bush Shoe' Gives a Turk Firm Footing In the Market. By SEBNEM ARSU. ISTANBUL. When a pair of black leather oxfords hurled at President Bush in Baghdad produced a gasp heard around the world, a Turkish cobbler had a different reaction: They were his shoes. We have been producing that specific style, which I personally designed, for 10 years, so I couldn't have missed it, no way,' said Ramazan Baydan, a shoemaker in Istanbul. As a shoemaker, you understand. Although his assertion has been impossible to verify -- cobblers from Lebanon, China and Iraq have also staked claims to what is quickly becoming some of the most famous footwear in the world -- orders for Mr. Baydan's shoes, formerly known as Ducati Model 271 and since renamed 'The Bush Shoe,' have poured in from around the world. A new run of 15,000 pairs, destined for Iraq, went into production on Thursday, he said. A British distributor has asked to become the Baydan Shoe Company's European sales representative, with a first order of 95,000 pairs, and an American company has placed an order for 18,000 pairs. Four distributors are competing to represent the company in Iraq, where Baydan sold 19,000 pairs of this model for about $40 each last year. Five thousand posters advertising the shoes, on their way to the Middle East and Turkey, proclaim 'Goodbye Bush, Welcome Democracy' in Turkish, English and Arabic. For now, Mr. Baydan's customers will have to take his word for it. The journalist who launched the shoes at a news conference a week ago, Muntader al-Zaidi, 29, was wrestled to the ground by guards and has not been seen in public since. Explosives tests by investigators destroyed the offending footwear. But Mr. Baydan insists he recognizes his shoes. Given their light weight, just under 11 ounces each, and clunky design, he said he was amazed by their aerodynamics. Both shoes rocketed squarely at Mr. Bush's head and missed only because of deft ducks by the president. Throwing a shoe at someone is a gross insult in Arab countries, and Mr. Bush is widely unpopular in much of the region. But as he enters his last weeks in office, he seems to have gained a small foothold of appreciation here. Noting the spike in sales, Serkan Turk, Baydan's general manager, said, 'Mr. Bush served some good purpose to the economy before he left. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 09:35:21 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:05:21 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Height of irresponsibility (The Hindu) Message-ID: Height of irresponsibility If Abdul Rahman Antulay has made his continuance as Minister untenable by blatantly ignoring the facts behind the terrorist attacks on Mumbai and buying into a strange conspiracy theory over the killing of the Maharashtra Anti-terrorism Squad chief Hemant Kharkare, the United Progressive Alliance government has not displayed any great sagacity in prevaricating over his resignation. In the days since the attack, compelling evidence has surfaced to establish the Pakistani id entity of the assassins of Mr. Karkare, Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte, Inspector Vijay Salaskar, and three of the four constables who accompanied them. In an over-the-top interview to a television channel, Mr. Antulay insinuated a Hindutva plot to kill Mr. Karkare. Later, speaking in Parliament, he alleged that Mr. Karkare and the other two police officers had been sent to their deaths by a telephone caller who summoned them to Cama Hospital. He asked: "Why did all three of them go in the same vehicle to Cama Hospital? Who directed them there?" Mr. Antulay's indiscretion was the worse because he held the sensitive portfolio of Minority Affairs. The Minister clearly failed to appreciate that in the tinderbox environment terrorism has engendered, the smallest provocation can inflame communal passions. And thanks to the sanctity that attaches to the words of a Minister, there is already some consternation in sections of the Muslim community. The Mumbai attack had been widely condemned by Muslim organisations; ordinary Muslims wore black bands on Eid to protest it. Today sundry Urdu newspapers have joined the Antulay chorus. This is unfortunate given that there are two eyewitnesses to the ambush of the policemen. The account of the surviving Pakistani terrorist, Mohammad Ajmal Amir has been corroborated by Constable Arun Jhadav who was left for dead by the assassins. There is no disputing the reason why the police officers rushed to Cama hospital, which was the second place to come under attack after Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus. Mr. Karkare and his two fellow officers had received information that Additional Commissioner of Police Sadanand Date was injured in that attack. In part as a consequence of the needless twist given to this straightforward story, Pakistan today refuses to accept that the Mumbai terror attack originated on its soil. For the Muslim community, targeted and taunted by the Sangh Parivar for its alleged terror links, Mr. Karkare was a hero, who uncovered the truth of the Malegaon terror blast and established the justness of the Indian legal system. His death has created a climate ripe for conspiracy theories. As a Minister, Mr. Antulay had a responsibility to advocate calm and reason. Regrettably, he did the opposite. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 10:37:38 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:37:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dial CPM Brinda and Teesta for cash-for-false-affidavits Message-ID: <6353c690812212107k5bb31e46t8d58983fb7452a1d@mail.gmail.com> Dial CPM Brinda and Teesta for cash-for-false-affidavits Gujarat-based NGO processed payment from CPM relief fund Navin Upadhyay | New Delhi (Pioneer, 20 Dec. 2008) A controversial Gujarat-based NGO was instrumental in organising payment of Rs 1 lakh each to as many as ten witnesses in various post- Godhra riot cases. The money came from the CPI(M) relief fund and was distributed months before the witnesses deposed in the courts, five years after the clashes took place. Four other eyewitnesses received Rs 50,000 each. The revelation comes in the backdrop of reports that a host of Gujarat riot case victims were misled into signing affidavits giving false information at the behest of Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP), an NGO headed by social activist Teesta Setalvad. Incidentally, those who were both victims and eyewitnesses received Rs 1 lakh and Rs 50,000 while the victims got mere Rs 5,000 each. This has raised eyebrows over the selection of beneficiaries and the purpose of paying a disproportionately large sum to the eyewitnesses before the trial. Chief Coordinator of CJP Rais Khan told The Pioneer that he had submitted the name of beneficiaries to the CPI(M) on instruction from Teesta Setalvad. "Setalvad identified the people and I merely followed her instruction and forwarded the list to CPI (M)," Khan said. When contacted, Setalvad said she was present at the function on an invitation from the CPI(M) and had nothing to do with fund raising. "It was CPI(M) money and I was a mere guest at the function," she claimed. Yasin Naimudin Ansari, one of the eyewitnesses who got one lakh rupees, told The Pioneer on phone from Ahmedabad that he was approached by someone from Teesta Setalvad's organisation. "I vaguely remember this. But I don't remember the name of the person," he said. The function took place in Ahmedabad on August 26, 2007 and the witnesses were handed out demand drafts by CPI(M) politburo member Brinda Karat, Teesta Setalvad and Rais Khan. Brinda Karat admitted that the CPI(M) had raised the money, adding that as far the party was concerned it was giving relief to the victims. "Our party is not involved in any court cases involving Gujarat riots, and for us, distributing relief was merely a humanitarian gesture," she said. Not disputing that she had taken the help of local NGOs to identify the victims, Brinda said, "We had received a lot of applications and money was distributed in different phases." The 14 DDs (Nos 567540 to 567554 all dated 01/08/2007) were handed over to these witnesses by Teesta, Brinda and Rais Khan. Seven DDs were payable at Ahmedabad and seven at Baroda. Interestingly, one of the recipients is Yasmin Banu Sheikh, the estranged wife of Zahira Sheikh's brother Nafitullah. The Pioneer is in possession of letters written by beneficiaries thanking Brinda, Teesta and Rais Khan for the payment. Yasmin Banu Ismailbhai Shaikh (aunt of Zahira) of Baroda, who received Rs 50,000 (DD No 567552 dated August 1, 2007). Yasmin is a complainant in case No. 114/04 at Baroda. It is interesting to note that, when no substance was found in her complaint, she was directed to face lie detection test by the court and ever since she has not appeared in the court. Among the recipients are four Best Bakery case witnesses and nine are appearing as witnesses in Ahmedabad-related Naroda Patia, Shahpur, Khanpur and other 2002 riot cases. The information has been gleaned through a string of petitions under the Right to Information Act by one H Jhaveri from various agencies, including banks. The four Best Bakery case witnesses are: Sailun Hasan Khan Pathan of Ahmedabad who was paid Rs 1 lakh; Tufel Ahmed Habibullah Siddiqui of Baroda who received 50,000; Sehjad Khan Hasan Khan Pathan of Baroda who was paid Rs 50,000 and Rais Khan Amin Khan Pathan of Baroda who too got Rs 50,000. There are nine witnesses relating to Ahmedabad riots who are testifying in local riot cases. All of them were given Rs 1 lakh and they are: 1.Kureshabibi Harunbhai Ghori of Baroda, witness in case No. 11/02 registered in Khanpur Police Station. 2. Husenabibi Gulambhai Shaikh, also of Baroda and witness in case No. 11/02 filed in Khanpur police station. 3. Rasidabanu Yusufkhan Pathan of Ahmedabad, witness in 2002 riots cases. 4. Fatimabanu Babubhai Saiyyed of Ahmedabad and witness in Case No. 100/02 registered in Shahpur Police Station. 5. Badurnnisha Mohd Ismail Shaikh of Ahmedabad, witness in Case No. 49/0 3 of Shahpur Police Station. 6. Mohd Khalid Saiyyed Ali Saiyyed of Ahmedabad, witness in Naroda- Patiya case. His first application was registered on March 7, 2008 and second on May 29, 2008. 7. Mohd Yasin Naimuddin Ansari of Ahmedabad, witness in 2002 riots cases. 8.Shaikh Azharuddin Imamuddin of Ahmedabad. During 2002 riots he was injured. At that time he was 10 years. 9. Sarjahah Kausar Ali Shaikh of Baroda. No details available. List of Victims who were paid Rs 5,000 on 11/10/2007. Mohammed Rafiq Abukar Pathan , Aslamkhan Anwarkhan Pathan, Pathan Saiyedkhan Ahmedkhan, Imtiyazhhan Saiyedkhan Pathan, Rashidkhan A. Pathan, Sairaben Salimbhai Sanghi, Ashraf Sikandarbhai Sanghi. http://www.dailypioneer.com/144856/Godhra-riot-witnesses-got-Rs-1- lakh-each.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 10:40:26 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:40:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <251166.54583.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812212110u28bd2cb6o403d20f973652b36@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshemendra , The only difference between you and me is that i judged her before and you had to wait to understand her intentions. Trust, it is these Fatimas and Antulays who do more damage to muslims in India by watering the ever suspicion plant which grows in most of muslim homes in India. Antulay has political reasons to exploit his community and Fatima has been born with this contagious problem. Antulaay has problems in having been sidelined in ministry . I recall couple of years back I had a breakfast meeting with Antulay and I was being accompanied by lt L.N.Singhvi { Abhishek Singhvis father } . Antulay was all through begging us to plead his case to Sonia and request Sonia to promote him in the ministry . And even telling us ...pls do tell her but do not tell her that Antulay has asked us to convey this to her. Such a moron opportunist. Mumbai attacks , thankfully was never seen in context of Hindu vs Muslim.......however Antulays and Fatimas have succesfully damaged the united Indian community to an extent. Pawan On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Fatima > > Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an intemperate > comment directed at you over your "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting. > > Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that you do > not want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have done exactly the > opposite. > > On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have this > doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of the Muslims of > India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim? > > Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given atmosphere > post Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by Pakistanis. > Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy voice for those > Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the Pakistani connection to > the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the proxy voice for those Pakistanis > who want to divert the attention away from the Pakistani connection to the > Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position > unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately. > > Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress partyman. He > could always have discussed the "suspicions about Karkare's death" > internally withing the Party / Government. Both would have been more than > keen to enquire into or exploit that suspicion at the appropiate time since > it would mean discrediting / attacking the Hindutvavaadis. > > You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. > That makes your motives Anti-India. > > You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking the same > questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith Muslims might not > be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might think that thia is not the > point of time when such questions should be asked on the basis of some vague > 'conspiracy theory'. > > Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you): > > """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence > ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into the > involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural > that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only > raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he was > eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, > might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but > such suspicions are not illogical. """" > > Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that dramatic > statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List. > > I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus > Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: > > From: Fatima फ़ातिमा > Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > To: "Reader-list" > Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM > > Dear friends > I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me > think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all > including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a > majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does > not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything > to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering > if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same > question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? > > Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" > > > From: "zohra javed" > To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com > > A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS > Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak > from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though > for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially > into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were > killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point > and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the > issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this > point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his > party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe > into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of > sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much > appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice > rather than accepting a political charity. > Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the > Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I > wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit > to begin with. It is very important to understand that > laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of > the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter > to make election issues out of them or score political and social > points. Indeed that political party is best which can > implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double > standards. > The common people have time and again proved their innocence and > smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every > time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up > beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical > is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either > foolish or a traitor. > Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". > Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true > answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the > time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. > > And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as > anti-national. > Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. > Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many > blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our > investigating agencies, media and the political parties do > not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many > loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put > forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more > thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there > was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection > with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he > allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". > > If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and > integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the > common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers > in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for > one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the > common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay > said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi > loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could > even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks > cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his > community. > > The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we > supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders > rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, > are really true to their religion? Can there at all be > any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on > earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the > "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a > person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a > pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every > detail into account before coming to conclusions as we > must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an > unbiased probe into the "business of terror". > > Zohra Javed > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 22 14:12:57 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:42:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Antulay_is_=E2=80=98senile=2C_immature?= =?utf-8?b?4oCZ?= Message-ID: <291938.92194.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Antulay is ‘senile, immature’: City Muslims" Kiran Tare Saturday, December 20, 2008 (DNA-Mumbai)   City’s common Muslims in Mumbai have lambasted union minority affairs minister AR Antulay for his controversial remarks over killing of Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare.   “Antulay is trying to divide the society with imaginary pictures,” said Wahid Khan, a fruit seller at Bhendi Bazar. “Karkare ko marne wala Pakistani tha, koi Hindu nahi (A Pakistani killed Karkare not a Hindu). Why cannot Antulay understand such a simple thing?” he said.   Rafiq Shaikh, another vendor, said, “Antulay has raised doubt over who ordered Karkare to go to Cama Hospital instead of Taj or Oberoi Hotel. I believe that if anyone had ordered him to take position anywhere, he must be the city police chief, Hassan Gafoor, who is not a Hindu.”   The shop-keepers at Mohammed Ali Road also expressed their anger over Antulay’s remarks. “He is inviting trouble for the whole Muslim community,” said Haroon Shaikh. "At a time when people of all denominations have come together against terrorism, Antulay is trying to break the unity. His comments are totally immature,” he said. “Antulay thought he will attract some sympathy from the Muslims by questioning Karkare’s killing but we will not fall in his trap. Where was he when Mohammed Ali Road was burning in communal riots in 1992?” asked Aleem Beig, another shopowner.   Residents of Nagpada criticised that Antulay had lost his ability to differentiate between right and wrong. “At the age of 80, he is in no position to think properly. He has lost his senses. He should check up his mental status,” said Nadeem Khan, a scrap shopowner.  “Antulay is playing double standards. Now, he is blaming Hindu radicals. At one time, he had intense friendship with Bal Thackeray. We cannot forget this,” Shadab Ansari, a vendor said.   http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1215439       From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 00:21:38 2008 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:21:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Me Mumbaikar' Message-ID: Me Mumbaikar The gruesome battleground in South Mumbai has left us Mumbaikars fed up, scared, angry, willing to lash out, especially at the politicians. We now have an incoherent rant against "the other" or "the system". My heart goes out to the victims and this article in no way downplays the magnitude of the human tragedy. Yet as a lifelong Mumbaikar, I have not been able to shake a feeling that people have deliberately refused to grasp the essence of the problem because it is not conveniently gift wrapped with a bow on it. Simply put, there is no "other" to blame. Mumbaikars over decades of greed and rapacity, have destroyed rule of law and corrupted the systems which should have protected us. We are the system. We are the reality of Mumbai. We are its pestilence. It is convenient to demand action, to demand results, somehow, anyhow. Can we believe in a fantasy that a bureaucracy, government and law enforcement apparatus which have never delivered anything meaningful which we have ourselves strangled over the years, can suddenly start delivering results in one narrow sphere of security? AIDS victims don't die of AIDS. They die because AIDS reduces immunity and invites secondary diseases to feast on the weakened host. An AIDS patient can die from a common cold. Terrorists only descended upon the enfeebled carcass of Mumbai to deliver the coup de grace. They are the opportunistic secondary infection. Mumbai was always a symbol of opportunity and accomplishment, with the accompanying corruptions of any big city. But what is Mumbai today? It's a ghettoized city of intolerance where Raj Thackeray can rouse lakhs of people into hatred of an "other", where vegetarians can discriminate openly against the "other" in their buildings, where Muslim enclaves make the "other" uncomfortable in their midst, where a parallel economy and a parallel justice system can thrive. It is a city of corruption, where the police force has been emasculated, where constables have to take bribes to pay off the cost of their postings, where senior officials operate openly in collusion with industrial houses, where human trafficking and child abuse are openly tolerated in plain sight at traffic signals. It is a city of decay, where greedy and corrupt builders can destroy every last inch of breathing space, documents can be faked, BMC officials bought off en masse, protesters can be bullied and threatened, restaurant owners can dump their daily trash in any quiet street corner. It is a city of harassment, where kids on loud motorcycles can whiz about unstopped, where loud pandals and religious displays disturb people way into the night, where poor people live in constant fear of harassment by the police. It is a city of neglect, where we cannot even point to one bylane free of potholes and garbage, not for technical reasons but because it fuels the perpetual motion machine of contracts and corruption. It is a city where the local governance become an enemy of the people, grabbing parks, destroying open mangroves, dumping huge toxic waste in plain view of its citizens. Ask a Mumbaikar from the slums what fun it is to get his kid's birth certificate from the BMC, to get past a police check, to get a lawyer who won't cheat him for common things,to get a judge who won't delay his case indefinitely. A poor "unconnected" person or a single woman would think thrice before walking into a police station to get help and even then would not do it. Above all Mumbai is a city of temporary convenience and compromise with no core values left to hold on to. The euphoria of economic growth justified every short cut and every depredation. Beneath the facade, Mumbai fell apart street by street, tree by tree, victim by victim. Mumbai is not an international city, it is an international joke. It is easier to take offense or retreat behind cliches, than to sincerely ponder the truth of this statement. The city cannot provide roads, fire service, ambulance service, police safety to its people. Those who feel it is "part of the charm" to walk past open garbage and people defecating, to drive on wretched roads, to not have any place to take your child to play, to have parks grabbed by local slumlords, are in denial about their hometown. They add to the apathy which keeps it in decline. We try to talk ourselves into believing that the human vibrancy covers up the physical dehumanization. Each and every one of these acts is perpetrated by a Mumbaikar. Each incident is like an incident of unprotected sex which takes the victim closer to the fatal disease. Each instance of apathy is just like one who cannot be bothered to wear a condom. A successful crime reduction effort in New York is called "Broken Windows". Consider a building with a few broken windows. If the windows are not repaired, the tendency is for vandals to break a few more windows. Eventually, they may even break into the building. Small crimes, if not stopped lead to large crimes, hence even a broken window should be pursued and punished by an alert citizenry, equipped police force and effective prosecution system. This indicates of the interconnectedness of things. Sorry to say, neither protests nor candles nor political resignations can help us. Not even an election. Who will you vote for? Throw out Manmohan and bring in Advani? There is no "One" who will sweep in on a white horse and save us. The world is now too complex and too interconnected for a single Obama or some mythical Kalki to come in and sweep clean with a magic wand. That only happens in films. Until and unless there is a mass movement of self-realization on the scale of the freedom movement, the city will continue to bleed. A corrupt, weakened and demoralized force is not suddenly going to wake up and become a crack squad. A polity used to the easy days and fat life is not suddenly going to snap into action when it has been unable (despite similar outcries) to even keep the Mithi clear or keep the highway free of potholes. Let's not glamorize the spirit of Mumbai or the beauty. It is purely money power and film dazzle which keeps this image intact. Neither Mr. Tata with his billions nor Mr. Bachchan with his pistol was there to save us on Wednesday night. We were saved by lower middle class jawans who on a normal Sunday would not even be allowed to enter the Taj or Oberoi by the security, who cannot even afford a Thums Up at Souk. Do we even deserve these amazing young men to fight and die for us when every public figure and Page 3 celebrity is on air spewing verbal diarrhea about our fear and trauma? The very same businessmen who pay customs and excise officers to look the other way ten times a day, now want them to be vigilant the eleventh time and catch the arms. We have forgotten the RDX which landed under very noses of Customs in 1993.. The same citizenry which doesn't care if builders illegally encroach approach areas and roadsides, now want to know why fire forces can't do their job. The same contractors, who cheat and embezzle funds meant for equipment for cops, are now furious about the inadequate body armor and .303s. All because "our" Taj and Oberoi are under attack. Where goes Mumbai, so the rest of the nation. Governance and rule of law are at an all time low. Rights of poor people and middle class urban dwellers are trampled brutally. The backlog of cases and toothless enforcement makes a mockery of the Constitution which has enough teeth in it for many common problems. We had a window of unprecedented growth where we could have set systems and infrastructure straight. We did not, instead reveling superficially in our new -found easy wealth and sweeping any honest inquiry and intellectual thought process under the carpet. Today we find that the much-feted titans of industry and finance were drunk on a global binge of easy debt and bogus stock valuations, and that the real growth has not traveled to the people who needed it, that real fundamental nation building value has not been created to the extent it was believed. Today we need the army to throw out Lashkar from Colaba Causeway, what will we say when Naxalite cadets show up in Chennai? We always say "Me Mumbaikar Aahe". This is us. We are the ones who whittled away like termites at the gates and then threw down a red carpet of blood for terrorists to waltz in and shoot up our town like some drug-crazed teenagers on a weekend spree. Only a Mumbaikar can truly understand that feeling of enraged impotence at the sight of these animals strolling down our historic downtown redefining forever the Mumbai taunt "Baap ka road hai" We are not to blame for their inhuman choice to perpetrate violence upon innocents. No secularist, no apologist, no CNN reporter, can justify that action. But we are to blame for our failure to protect ourselves and we are to blame for our inability to change the systems that made it possible from a fundamental level. Unless we re-engage our civic society as responsible and honest citizens of our own free will, we cannot expect better from our institutions. Let's start with the hard, thankless and unglamorous task of fixing the broken windows and potholes. We have a very long way to go before reclaiming our Maximum City from what we have allowed it to become. Only then can we show the lead to the rest of the nation as we have always prided ourselves on doing. With regards and be safe, Anonymous From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 22 15:48:01 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:18:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <65657.93730.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Fatima   Let me start with your statement  "..... and Karkare was in any case on their hit-list."   On what basis do you make this ridiculous assertion that Karkare was on the "hit-list" of the Pakistani Terrorists? Do you have any evidence at all to support that statement?   Maybe you did not realise what you were saying. That defines a 'mind-set' in you where from you will unthinkingly state any half-truths and lies or distort facts to suit you.   You might say many times over that you do not 'believe in a conspiracy theory' but your posts in this string are contrary to that claim of yours. Propagation of 'conspiracy theories' with your arguments stating how they could be plausible is nothing else but your taking the conspiracy theories seriously if not actually subscribing to them.    With Karkare's death has there been a set-back to the investigations into the Malegaon blasts case? I am sure there has because Karkare was leading it. Mark that word "leading".   It would be idiotic for anyone to believe that Karkare alone by himself was the Lone Ranger of the investigations and that the investigations did not 'belong' to his unit. It would be idiotic for anyone to believe that the investigating unit would  not have been given the 'enabling' permissions / support / assurances from both the bureaucratic and political czars.   Unless you and those (whether Muslims or other Indians) who subscribe to "conspiracy of Karkare's killing" theory have deliberately become blind, even after Karkare's death there are reports on the continuation and progress of the investigations into the Malegaon blasts.   Consider this that, the ones you say "believe in the conspiracy theory', the "many Muslims" and those in "Muslim dominated area" are existing in mind-ghettos of perhaps their own making but most certainly mind-ghettos created by people like you and Antulay where it suits you to barb-wire their confines through conspiracy theories meant to exploit their insecurities.   If you are truly interested in the welfare of the Muslims of India, then through speech and action take them out of their mind-ghettos and free them from their insecurities. Muslims need to realise this that there are an overwhelmingly larger number of Non-Muslim Indians who will not accept Muslims as a community of Indian citizenry being demonised, an overwhelmingly larger number that those who would want otherwise. Both the Media and the political matrices in India testify to that.   You have written "many who died in Mumbai were Muslim". What is this obsession with Muslims? Muslims did not die. Some Indians died some foreigners died. Certainly there was no 'secular' programming in the chambers of the weapons of the terrorists that ensured selective faith based killing even when randomly fired.   Irrespective of what anyone says, when facts are more than evident it would be senile for investigations to probe "assumptions" and "doubts". How can you even think of putting forward that suggestion. At the same time I would say that if the captured terrorist Kasab turns out to be something other than what is known of him today, then most certainly there should be a full-blooded 'probe'.   Your choice of the word "euphoric" to describe the "patriotism" in the aftermath of the Mumbai Terror Attack sounds convoluted and is certainly distasteful. The "patriotism" has been provoked by "terror attacks".    Kshmendra               --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: From: Fatima फ़ातिमा Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "Reader-list" Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 8:46 PM Dear Kshmendra Thanks for defending me earlier. I still did not say that I believe in the conspiracy theory. My contention simply was that things are not so black-and-white as they are being made so. In any case, Antulay also said "Of course Karkare was killed by the terrorists - even a fool knows that... but there is ...a terrorism plus something". We all know that the terrorists came from Pakistan, and Karkare was in any case on their hit-list. But some people are also saying that with his murder, there has been a major setback to the investigation in the Malegaon blast accused case, which is rather sad. And the BJP-family has certainly gained out of it. When I said many Muslims believe in the conspiracy theory, there maybe some truth in it - you have to come to a Muslim dominated area and talk to some people to know what I am talking about. But once again, having doubts and conspiracies doesn't prove that they are anti-national. I am sure they are also pained by the death of so many innocent people (and many who died in Mumbai were Muslim), but there is some uneasiness about accepting the lead story as truth. This also doesn't mean a denial-mode, but its simply an insecurity that has set in in the community. No one should believe anything as truth until and unless things have been probed properly. I think even Shuddha is saying the same thing. (I wonder if you would call him too anti-India). When we talk about a probe, most assumptions and investigations start with DOUBTS. But why does one have to take doubt as a sign of anti-nationalism. At the moment we are all bathing in a sea of euphoric patriotism, and cannot tolerate any DOUBT. But yes, as Shuddha says, one has to be careful and cautious about what one says and doesn't say. So I guess I should keep quite even I have doubts in mind, since I have to prove my affiliation to the nation. Fatima On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Fatima > > Two days back I criticised Pawan for what I thought was an intemperate > comment directed at you over your "Kasab...Nepal....India" posting. > > Today I see your intentions as suspect. Earlier you forswore that you do not > want to promote any 'conspiracy theory'. Today you have done exactly the > opposite. > > On what basis do you say that "...majority of Muslims in India have this > doubt any way" (about Karkare's death). Are you the voice of the Muslims of > India? Do you have any means of evidencing your claim? > > Antulay was an idiot to make his comment publicly in the given atmosphere > post Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Already Antulay's comment is being extensively quoted by Pakistanis. > Antulay (by his indiscrete questioning) became a proxy voice for those > Pakistanis who continue to be in denial about the Pakistani connection to > the Mumbai Terror Attacks and became the proxy voice for those Pakistanis > who want to divert the attention away from the Pakistani connection to the > Mumbai Terror Attacks. > > Antulay placed himself in the "proxy voice for Pakistan" position > unwittingly. You are doing it deliberately. > > Antulay is a Minister in the Govt. of India. He is a Congress partyman. He > could always have discussed the "suspicions about Karkare's death" > internally withing the Party / Government. Both would have been more than > keen to enquire into or exploit that suspicion at the appropiate time since > it would mean discrediting / attacking the Hindutvavaadis. > > You seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus Non-Muslim divide. That > makes your motives Anti-India. > > You asked why Non-Muslims in India and on this List are not asking the same > questions as Antulay. Consider this, that they alongwith Muslims might not > be as foolish as Antulay or as you and might think that thia is not the > point of time when such questions should be asked on the basis of some vague > 'conspiracy theory'. > > Incidentally, I myself had written this (copied to you): > > """""" The Hindutvavaadis had been with frequency and great vehemence > ascribing motives to and attacking Hemant Karkare's investigations into the > involvement of "Hindu Terrorists" in the Malegaon Blasts. It is only natural > that Karkare's killing (with a bullet-proof vest donned) should not only > raise a few eybrows but bring into the arena questions about whether he was > eliminated by "Hindu Terrorists". Such suspicions might be far-fetched, > might be without duly investigating the facts of 'how and where' he died but > such suspicions are not illogical. """" > > Even if you read it, you seem to have been keener to make that dramatic > statement about Non-muslims in India and on this List. > > I repeat that you seem to be intent on making this a Muslim versus > Non-Muslim divide. That makes your motives Anti-India. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fatima फ़ातिमा wrote: > > From: Fatima फ़ातिमा > Subject: [Reader-list] Is Antulay really pro-Pakistan? > To: "Reader-list" > Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 12:40 PM > > Dear friends > I have no sympathy for politicians usually, but this case has made me > think a lot. I am amazed that Antulay is being hounded by all > including the Congress for expressing a doubt. The truth is that a > majority of Muslims in India have this doubt any way - but that does > not prove that they supporting Pakistani viewpoint. Why is everything > to be seen as anti-India and pro-Pakistan terms? I am really wondering > if there is no non-Muslim in this country who is ready to ask the same > question which Antulay asked? Not even on this list? > > Please see this interesting view from another "supporter of Pakistan" > > > From: "zohra javed" > To: zohra83 at rediffmail.com > > A.R.Antulay's remark about a thorough probe into the causes of ATS > Chief Hemant Karkare's martyrdom have drawn a lot of flak > from the most expected quarters. It should have been surprising though > for anyone to oppose a proper investigation specially > into the deaths of Mr.Karkare and the other two officers who were > killed along with him. Mr.Antulay has raised a valid point > and instead of bashing him down and asking for explainations on the > issue from the PM everyone must support Antulay on this > point. Narender Modi offered a crore of rupees to Mrs.Karkare, but his > party is opposing someone who wants a thorough probe > into the tragic and untimely death of Mr.Karkare...what kind of > sympathy is this? In all probablity Mrs.Karkare would much > appreciate if the killers of her late husband are brought to justice > rather than accepting a political charity. > Asking for new laws is fine. But as Advani has admitted in the > Parliament that there is no law that has not been misused, I > wonder why the existing laws are not implemented in letter and spirit > to begin with. It is very important to understand that > laws are for the smooth running of a system and for the protection of > the weak. They are neither prestige issues nor a matter > to make election issues out of them or score political and social > points. Indeed that political party is best which can > implement laws and ensure a rule of law without any bias or double > standards. > The common people have time and again proved their innocence and > smugness by allowing the politicians to confuse them. Every > time some pertinent questions are raised a smoke-screen comes up > beyond which the path becomes blurred. What is more ironical > is that anyone daring to venture beyond is bogged down as being either > foolish or a traitor. > Einstein said, "the important thing is not to stop questioning". > Indeed it is by raising questions and finding their true > answers that one can reach a satisfactory conclusion. But most of the > time people are not encouraged to raise their doubts. > > And if some stray questioning voices become loud they are branded as > anti-national. > Fighting terror is a serious matter. Every angle must be probed. > Nothing must be left to chance. But even after so many > blasts in various Indian cities and now the carnage in Mumbai our > investigating agencies, media and the political parties do > not seem to have woken up to the real danger. There are too many > loopholes and loose ends in the theories that are being put > forward. What is wrong in probing the Israeli angle a bit more > thoroughly? Or ponder a little more over the fact that there > was a person called Ken Heywood, whose name had come up in connection > with some blasts in the past. However, not only was he > allowed to travel at will, he almost instantly got a "clean chit". > > If we are genuinely concerned about our nation's security and > integrity, we have to rise above bias. And it will be the > common man who has to do this because it is the common man who suffers > in these tragedies that reap rich harvest of votes for > one coalition or the other, but nothing changes on the ground for the > common man. It is not just a matter of what Antulay > said. He is a seasoned politician and a die-hard Nehru-Gandhi > loyalist. In such a scenario I don't understand how he could > even utter a word of embarassment for his bosses. Hence his remarks > cannot be only his own nor can he be speaking for his > community. > > The point is who benefits from all of these activities. Are we > supposed to believe that the so called religious leaders > rolling in luxuries, blessing politicians before and after elections, > are really true to their religion? Can there at all be > any love of God behind brutal killings of the innocent? And why on > earth do these so called religious leaders not take on the > "non-believers" themselves? The nationality or the religion of a > person involved in terrorist activities has ceased to be a > pointer as to the cause. It will indeed be worthwhile to take every > detail into account before coming to conclusions as we > must all remember that only those who fear the outcome would oppose an > unbiased probe into the "business of terror". > > Zohra Javed > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 18:25:09 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:25:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India: New and protracted displacement ongoing in absence of formalised response Message-ID: <6353c690812220455l60bd5eeas580edd372eca243@mail.gmail.com> India: New and protracted displacement ongoing in absence of formalised response 22 Dec 2008 11:15:00 GMT Source: IDMC Link - http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IDMC/672099bacb8ec56263f702aec5d9f200.htm *Reuters and AlertNet are not responsible for the content of this article or for any external internet sites. The views expressed are the author's alone.* In 2007-2008, civilians in various parts of India continued to be displaced by internal armed conflict and separatist, ethnic or communal violence, as well as conflict stemming from the threat of development-induced displacement. Over one third of the country's 608 districts were affected by insurgent movements in 2007. The armed movement by Maoist groups known as Naxalites was the most widespread insurgency in the country and had displaced over 100,000 people of Chhattisgarh state. Clashes between a tribal group and immigrant settlers in Assam state caused the displacement of over 200,000 people, and communal violence in Orissa state displaced tens of thousands. In Nandigram region of West Bengal state, displacement followed conflict arising from the government's plans to evict the local community and use the land for a development project. Some groups displaced for years continued to be trapped in relief camps or relief colonies. Over 30,000 ethnic Bru IDPs were living in deplorable conditions in camps in Tripura state while authorities in Mizoram state refuse to allow them to return home. India's largest IDP group, the over 250,000 Kashmiri Pandits, were also unable to return after up to 18 years of displacement. More than 20,000 people in Gujarat who had fled their homes during communal violence in 2002 could not return to areas of origin for fear of further violence. The Government of India has no national policy to respond to conflict-induced displacement and the responsibility for protecting this population has generally been delegated to state governments. This has resulted in a wide discrepancy of responses from state to state, and between situations within one state. It is very difficult to estimate the total number of conflict-induced IDPs in India as there is no government monitoring agency and humanitarian and human rights agencies have limited access to these IDPs. The displaced whose numbers are known are generally those living in camps and registered there, and so a conservative estimate of India's current conflict-displaced population would be at least 500,000, but could be significantly higher. Read full Report on Internal Displacement in India From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 22 19:36:41 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:06:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] What Antulay actually said. At the start of it all. Message-ID: <451667.96681.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> What did Antulay actually say about the killing of Hemant Karkare? What started the controversy?   A spin is being put on Antulay's first remarks on this topic, by Antulay himself, his fellow Congressites and others. Some spin on this List too.    Given below are the quotes from various news reports (quoted as quotes from Antulay in the reports).   Kshmendra     - “Karkare found that there are non-Muslims involved in acts of terrorism... "   - "Any person going to the roots of terror has always been the target"   - "There is more than what meets the eye."   - "Superficially speaking, they (the terrorists) had no reason to kill Karkare. Whether he (Karkare) was a victim of terrorism or terrorism plus something, I do not know,”   - “I can’t say who killed him,” Antulay said. “I leave it you. But you remember what all was said against the poor man. He was an upright officer. I know a bandh call was given against him before he was killed.”   - “somebody wanted Karkare killed”   - “Somebody who knew both the ends sent him (Karkare) in the wrong direction otherwise why should he have gone to Cama hospital? He should have gone to Taj, Oberoi or Nariman House. He went to such a place where there was nothing compared to what was happening in these three places. He went to the Cama hospital on the basis of a phone call. Who is that person who made the phone call? This should be probed.”   1. http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Karkare-a-victim-of-terrorism-plus-something-Antulay/399670/   2. http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22869§ionid=4&Itemid=1&issueid=84   3. http://www.headlinesindia.com/state-news/maharashtra/storm-as-antulay-sees-conspiracy-in-karkare-death-4223.html   4. http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/17antulay-karkare-malegaon-mumbai.htm             From dan.ayyaar at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 19:38:09 2008 From: dan.ayyaar at gmail.com (Danish Husain) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:38:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Suheir Hammad's Poetry Message-ID: <61cdd2df0812220608oeaabf88u38df079d304d0a90@mail.gmail.com> A voice which perhaps we should hear... http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=zS7xOqjjAow&feature=related From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 22:26:08 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:26:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: inoffensive contemporary indian art - Message-ID: <47e122a70812220856x5e6fe11fh2343cf67c38140a9@mail.gmail.com> may click to read on Indian art abroad http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/safe-passage-to-india-inoffensive-indian-contemporary-art-1066813.html From angshukanta at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 23:48:03 2008 From: angshukanta at gmail.com (Angshukanta Chakraborty) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:18:03 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: inoffensive contemporary indian art - In-Reply-To: <77aa94900812220939t6a6c2176ie0d9a9a6b76a68ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70812220856x5e6fe11fh2343cf67c38140a9@mail.gmail.com> <77aa94900812220939t6a6c2176ie0d9a9a6b76a68ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <77aa94900812221018n19ff544cp90041ada657d3991@mail.gmail.com> I think the problem of 'inoffensiveness' will be taken care of by the tone and views of the 'independent' reviewer himself, whose yardstick of measuring Indian art is basically his characteristic ignorance of Indian art. That he begins with the matter-of-fact admission is also pretty much giving away the redundant-though-still-nomative take on Indian/non-Western art - Orientalised ornaments in pigments or pixels which isn't much worth knowing. He's amazed by the absence of things he considers offensive, which in a way boils down to some irreligious metaphor hurting a sentiment here or there thus successfully sparking off a mediagenic controversy . Perhaps, more than the physical absence of M F Hussain's artworks in this particular exhibition, which according to the reviewer, could have generated some aesthetic offensiveness, it is worth thinking how the questioning of Hussain's 'legendary' status, or brushing off his 'comparisons with Picasso', actually betrays the reviewer's openly expressed Eurocentrism, and only a half-baked appreciation of art under a different rubric. The ignorance is not a start, it is a startling reiteration of the perpetuity of one-sided knowledge-systems that take inordinate amount of pleasure in rehashing old myths in a world that has gone much further ahead in understanding, intermingling and expanding the categories of art , aesthetics and cultures. But for some, represented by the likes of this particular reviewer, the Art under discussion has not only not arrived, it very much never quite existed without the aesthetic sanction and appropriation of these self-aggrandising Western culture industries. On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:56 PM, indersalim wrote: > may click to read on Indian art abroad > > > http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/safe-passage-to-india-inoffensive-indian-contemporary-art-1066813.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Dec 23 04:00:06 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:30:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-3 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812221430i71b1ad53w870a943d6f49e597@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1547538344.cms Sikkim backs terror law, opposes central agency 19 Nov 2001, 0922 hrs IST, PTI gangtok: the sikkim government has welcomed the prevention of terrorism ordinance (poto) and assured the centre to establish a special court to try cases under the provisions of such a law, but opposed to establishing a federal investigating agency. chief minister pawan chamling, who attended the conference on internal security in delhi along with his other counterparts on saturday, said, "it is gratifying to note that the ordinance has incorporated various safeguards to assuage the apprehension about the possible abuse of power." he expressed concern over the 'general deterioration' in the law and order in the country and the activities of foreign terrorist organisations networking with militant outfits. "that the strategic geographical location of our state can be used by these terrorist outfits as a safe haven or a safe corridor was a matter of concern," he said, adding it has further been heightened by the absence of any 'effective' lawto deal with terrorism after the lapse of tada. on setting up a federal investigating agency, the sikkim chief minister said there would be no need to establish another organisation or agency as maintenance of law and order was a state subject and such cases could be dealt with by state agencies. chamling said his government endorsed the proposal for compulsory registrationof citizens and non-citizens and introducing multipurpose national identity cards to deal with illegal migration. he urged the prime minister to introduce the system in sikkim as it is a small state. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Dec 23 04:03:30 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:33:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-4 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812221433p1850a785lcd9ab16016f40660@mail.gmail.com> * * * * * http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2001/rmay2001/23052001/r2305200110.html * *May 23, 2001 * * * *GROUP OF MINISTERS' REPORT ON "REFORMING THE NATIONAL SECURITY SYSTEM"* * * * A* comprehensive systemic overhaul of the country's security and intelligence apparatus in keeping with the technological revolution and the need for integrated management structures was unfolded by the Group of Ministers (GOM) in a report submitted by them to PM on February 26, 2001. The GOM had been set up in April 2000 to review the national security system in its entirety and in particular to consider the recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee and formulate specific proposals for implementation. The GOM under the Chairmanship of Shri L.K. Advani also included the Defence Minister, External Affairs Minister and Finance Minister. The GOM held 27 meetings in all. In order to facilitate its work, it had set up 4 Task Forces one each on Intelligence Apparatus, Internal Security, Border Management and Management of Defence. These Task Forces were multi-disciplinary in character and were made up of acknowledged experts. The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) considered the GOM report on 11 th May, 2001 and decided that the recommendation in respect of the institution of the Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) be considered later, after Government is able to consult various political parties. It accepted all other recommendations contained in the GOM report. The establishment of an Intelligence Coordination Group (ICG) and Technology Coordination Group (TCG), working in close tandem with National Technical Facility Organisation (NTFO), are among the major elements recommended in the area of Intelligence. The *ICG* will provide for systematic intelligence oversight at the apex level and inter-alia deal with: • Allocation of resources to the intelligence agencies • Consideration of annual reviews on the quality of inputs • Approve the annual tasking for intelligence collection • Oversee the functions of intelligence agencies • Examine national estimates and forecasts The Technology Coordination (Group will coordinate and regulate plans for acquisition of all new costly major strategic facilities/equipment by the intelligence agencies and generally oversee the TECHINT capabilities of the intelligence agencies as well as examine issues relating to allocation of funds for this purpose. The NTFO will. inter-alia plan design set up and operate any major new strategic and expensive TECHINT facilities as approved by *TCG* keeping in view the rapid convergence now taking place among hitherto different technologies. The appointment of a Chief of Defence Staff, with administrative control over India's Strategic Forces Command, as the focal point for military advice to the Government, a holistic 15-20 year Defence Perspective Plan, subject to rigorous inter and infra service prioritisation backed by a Defence Procurement Board that gives it teeth, and the creation of a joint Services Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) are among other critical elements in the new higher defence management structure. In addition, the progressive decentralisation of decision making and delegation of powers to Service Headquarters is envisaged with the latter becoming Integrated Headquarters of the Ministry of Defence rather than "Attached Offices". Defence information relations are to be revamped at headquarters together with quick-responding media cells in field formations. The establishment of a National Defence University will help imbue governance with an appropriate strategic culture. "Civil defence" and the mobilisation of civil society have not been ignored. The Economic Intelligence Council is to be refurbished and given a wider mandate. The State Police and Central para-military forces are to be modernised with a new orientation being given to weapons, equipment and training. : Border Management is to be re-fashioned on a one-border-one-force principle so as to obviate problems of conflict in command and control and Sack of accountability arising from a multiplicity of forces on the same border. They are to be used exclusively for border guarding activities and not, as a rule, withdrawn for internal security disturbances etc. They are furthermore to be appropriately strengthened, trained and equipped with weapons on par with related army units when deployed on similar tasks. The Coast Guard is to be strengthened and a specialised Marine Police to be raised in all coastal States and island territories. Sanctity of Indian airspace is to be safeguarded inter-alia through procurement of additional low level transportable radars, integrated air command and control systems, integration of national radar resources, revamp of airspace management of coastal and island territories etc. These structures will be backed up by a rejuvenated Civil Defence Organisation, village and ward defence committees and a revamped criminal justice system backed by laws and regulations appropriate to emerging circumstances. The programme to institute a multi-purpose National Identity Card is to be vigorously pursued, commencing with all border districts. Modalities are to be evolved for involving youth in national service in conformity with the spirit of Article 51 A(d) of the Constitution quite apart from expanding the NCC and Territorial Army. In a remarkably short span of a little more than a year since the Kargil Review Committee reported, the GOM and the four Task Forces set up by it, have completed a very intensive and exhaustive analytical exercise through an interactive and participatory process involving field operatives, users, the scientific community and civil and military decision-makers. What has emerged therefore is a closely deliberated and widely accepted .programme of action, ports of which ore already on the ground or in the process or implementation. These touch on the most sensitive and complex iss'ues and institutions of national security in its widest sense and position the country to meet the security challenges of the 21st Century. The new structures anticipate current and emerging security threats: nuclear-missile, cyber-information. technological innovation and, not least, international Terrorism, low intensity conflict and proxy war. These are new and innovative organisational platforms capable of flexible responses and not Just upgradations of yesterday's systems. The participation of key political players, National Security Adviser, Cabinet Secretary, the Services. Paramilitary, Police and Intelligence Chiefs, and the Principal Scientific Adviser to the Government in the entire exercise ensures the necessary political will, financial commitment and operational backup to secure what constitutes radical systemic change. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 13:06:08 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:06:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Jehad-for Virgins Scam Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812222336kf43572bxe5ae5a9f5da28583@mail.gmail.com> http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20081222/808/tnl-mumbai-terrorists-promised-sex-with_1.html New Delhi, Dec.22 (ANI): The lone surviving terrorist of the Mumbai terror attack Ajmal Amir Kasab has admitted that he along with his militant partners were lured into the terrorist camps by the Pakistan army officers as they were made to believe that the 'Jehad' in which they are going to take part will offer them a chance to put an end to their quest for 'holy virgins'. The 10 Pakistan terrorists who attacked Mumbai were indoctrinated by the Pakistan terror establishment. Jehad-for Virgins Scam was used to cheat teenage muslims to become terrorists. During the training Pakistan Army officers and Lashkar-e-Toiba commanders repeatedly told the terrorists that "the moment you are killed in the Jehad against India in Mumbai attack,your body will emit divine glow and an intoxicating fragrance, before the body rises to heaven, to enjoy sex with beautiful virgins waiting for you," The Political Party.com quoted Kasab's confession with the Mumbai Anti-Terror Squad (ATS). Kasab now believes that Jehad is an unholy quest for sex withy virgins in heaven. According to Political Party.com Kasab was horrified to see the dead bodies of his colleagues killed in the Mumbai attacks. Kasab is now accusing the Pakistan army officers and Lashkar commanders of cheating the teenager terrorists with promise of sex with beautiful virgins in the heaven.(ANI) From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 13:49:09 2008 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:49:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ajoka performs at JNU today evening Message-ID: <98f331e00812230019p12428878x3ed3a655adf85c62@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, AJOKA from Lahore, Pakistan and SANGATI, Mumbai, India will be performing at SSS Audi, JNU at 6pm today. All are invited. Come for Sufi songs, Qawallis, and a part of play based on Bulle Shah. for details, call: 98733313315 prakash From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 23 14:03:03 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:33:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Antulay & TOI web of deceit Message-ID: <665177.13308.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Times Of India had a 17th Dec '08 article on it's web edition "Antulay raises doubts over karkare's killing"   If you search for that article, it does show up in the results, but the link leads you to a different article "Antulay seeks probe into Karkare's killing" datelined 18th Dec. In this version, most of the first bunch of remarks by Antulay on Karkare's killing (which kicked off the controversyhave been edited out.    Unfortunately for TOI's 'web deceit', the original version is still cached at   http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=times+of+india+%22Antulay+raises+doubts+over+karkare%27s+killing%22&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&u=timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Antulay_raises_doubts_over_Karkares_killing/rssarticleshow/3852273.cms&w=%22times+of+india%22+timesofindia+%22antulay+raises+doubts+over+karkare%27s+killing%22&d=WZCyzkfiR_Z5&icp=1&.intl=us   Kshmendra From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Dec 23 14:54:14 2008 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:54:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `Terrorism and the Loss of Politics: Mumbai and After': Talk by Faisal Devji, CSDS, Jan 2, 1530 Message-ID: *Friday, 2nd January, 2009* *Programme in Social and Political Theory, CSDS* *Theorising the Contemporary – Seminar Series* *Terrorism and the Loss of Politics: Mumbai and After* * * By *Faisal Devji* at *3:30 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* Faisal Devji is Assistant Professor of History at the New School University. He has held faculty positions at Yale University and the University of Chicago, from where he also received his PhD in Intellectual History. Devji was Junior Fellow at the Society of Fellows, Harvard University, and Head of Graduate Studies at the Institute of Ismaili Studies in London, from where he directed post-graduate courses in the Near East and Central Asia. Faisal Devji is interested in the political thought of modern Islam as well as in the transformation of liberal categories and democratic practice in South Asia. His broader concerns are with ethics and violence in a globalised world. His publications include *Landscapes of the Jihad: Militancy, Morality, Modernity* (Cornell University Press, 2005) and *The Terrorist in Search of Humanity: Militant Islam and Global Politics* (Columbia University Press, 2008). From shuddha at gmail.com Mon Dec 22 16:49:50 2008 From: shuddha at gmail.com (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:49:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?AMCHI_MUMBAI=92_=96_=91OUR_MUMBAI?= =?windows-1252?q?=92_by_Lalita_Ramdas?= Message-ID: Dear All, Here is a text by Lalita Ramdas reflecting on the events in Bombay, which I found salutary for its sanity, and wanted to share with eveyone on this list. Unfortunately, the voices calling insanely for yet another Indo-Pak armed confrontation, that could escalate into war, have not yet died down. And neither the governments of India, nor of Pakistan are helping things cool down by their competitive grandstanding on the global stage. It is just as ridiculous for the President of Pakistan to deny that the attacks on Bombay had no links to Pakistan, as it is for the Indian foreign minister to demand that Pakistan hand over a list of people including ex-militants from the now totally irrelevant Khalistan movement as a response to the Bombay attacks. Both governments are evading a historic opportunity to take concrete and meaningful measures to conduct a joint investigation into the kind of terrorism that ordinary people in both countries suffer from. Unfortunately, the situation is worsened by the continuing attrition of strident war talk by some television channels and their irresponsible anchors in both India and in Pakistan. At such times, we need more sane voices like what Lalita Ramdas represents, on both sides of the India-Pakistan border. regards, Shuddha `AMCHI MUMBAI’ – ‘OUR MUMBAI’ - Many questions, some lessons, Lalita Ramdas – Village Bhaimala - Dec 2008 “Beware of the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double- edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry, [who] infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How will I know? For this I have done. And I am Julius Caesar.” William Shakespere *********************************************************************** My mother tells me that at the age of three my favourite past time was to be taken for a walk to the Gateway of India from Dhanraj Mahal where we lived during the war years. Occasionally she would take me into the Taj for a pastry and to talk to some of the Navy Uncles in their white uniforms because I was missing Papa who was out at sea.. Some sixty five years later – settled in this village of Bhaimala in Alibag Taluka – the magic of approaching the familiar skyline of the Gateway and the Taj hotel by boat from Mandwa is still very special – no matter how many times we have made that crossing. I wondered if those boys who landed on the night of the 26th, had ever seen the magic of Mumbai from seaward during the day – and if they had a moment of doubt at what they had set out to demolish. Ah Bombay, we had seen the best of times, and today we are seeing the worst of times – not just for Mumbai, India and Indians, but for our neighbours, especially for the people of Pakistan – who,like us, are victims of the legacy of colonization and a bitter partition which gave us our independence. Bombay has been the port city which has been home to the Indian Navy for the longest time, and as daughter and wife of two navy persons [both of whom rose to head the service as the first and the eleventh Navy Chiefs,] , Mumbai was my city too. I wept tears of disbelief, anguish and anger as I watched the images of the wanton attack on so many symbols of our growing up years in South Bombay. I too shared the pride and relief of many as the commandos and police finally ended the siege; and I too mourned the tragic loss of innocent lives from all walks of life. Such a waste and for little apparent gain. Today we are seeing a new group of Mumbaikers on the streets – coming from the class that has typically kept aloof from activism and any political involvement. This is a good thing in many ways, it is important that people feel strongly enough to get out and make their voices heard. as they cry out `Enough is Enough’. It is important also to understand what has changed this time and what it is that they are saying enough to. Yes we the people DO need to raise our voices to protest – but let us be clear about what we are protesting for and against. Yes we the people have a right to demand that the state be responsible for our security and that politicians be held accountable. And yes, let us never forget that this right of demanding accountability and protesting its absence is one that is fundamental to every citizen in this democracy – regardless of our religion, language, caste or community, our social or economic status or our political affiliations. This has been guaranteed to us by the Constitution of India. In the last few days I have read with mixed feelings a wide range of emails and news items from across the country as also watched the invariably dramatized images and analyses in the electronic media.. It is impossible not to be affected one way or other. I have also received several phone calls from friends – several of them Muslim – worried about what is happening, feeling the pressure to stand up and be counted among the `patriotic’ Indians; a pressure that we non- Muslims do not have to face. One of the most disturbing mails in my inbox today was entitled `We Need Leaders like this’ – an account extolling recent actions by John Howard the former Australian PM, as he lashed out at Muslims in Australia in an effort to pre-empt `Islamic terror’ in his country. And at the end of the harangue he tells them that they either accept the laws and customs of the land or avail of the Right to Leave. We are asked to circulate this widely – with the message that this is what needs to be done in India too. The implications are chilling and it took time to sink in . In a sense it was not surprising – the slow communalization of Indian society has been taking place insidiously over decades. Only now is it being stated so explicitly. While the right wing have consciously pushed this agenda, the others who flaunt their secular credentials have also virtually allowed this sub-text to go unchallenged.. It seems that the People of India will need to ask ourselves what kind of society we really want and the answers might be very different depending on who we are, where we live, how we live, and if we feel we belong. The Extract below, from a piece by Suddhabrata Sengupta in a Punjabi website called WICHAAR, sums up the problem succinctly. “While the agents of the attack in Bombay may have been genuinely motivated by their own twisted understanding of Islam, they have demonstrated that they have no hesitation in putting millions of Indian Muslims in harms way by exposing them to the risk of a long drawn out of spiral of retaliation. We need to underscore that they killed 40 innocent, unarmed Muslims (roughly 20 % of the current total casualty figures of 179) while they unleashed their brutal force on Bombay. The terrorists who authored their deaths cannot by any stretch of imagination be seen as partisans or friends of Islam. They are the enemy of us all, and especially of those amongst us who happen to be Muslims, for they jeopardize the safety and security of all Muslims in India by unleashing yet another wave of suspicion and prejudice against ordinary Muslims.” In the course of a long and thought provoking piece which he calls the DEBRIS OF TERROR, Sengupta also speaks of the ironies and also the utter senselessness of this attack: ““No redemptive, just, honourable or worthwhile politically transformatory objectives can be met, or even invoked, by attacking a mass transit railway station, a restaurant, a hotel or a hospital. The holding of hostages in a centre of worship and comfort for travellers cannot and does not challenge any form of the state oppression anywhere. By helping to unleash calls for war, by eliminating (unwittingly perhaps) those that have been investigating the links between fringe far right groups and home grown terror, by provoking once again the demand for stronger and more lethal legislation for preventive detention (in the form of a revived or resuscitated POTA), these terrorists have done statist and authoritarian politics in India its biggest favour.” And it is for these reasons that it is so critical in the present context that we as responsible citizens of India, exercise both reason and restraint, before we impetuously demand carpet bombing of Pakistan; self righteously refuse to pay taxes, contemptuously dismiss those who advocate people to people contact with our neighbours, and in the same breath, accuse Indian Muslims of being in some way the fifth columnists in our midst who have to demonstrate their patriotism and loyalty at every moment. Over the years, through the course of my own work with human rights, peace, justice and environment, it is increasingly clear that the issue of loyalty or disloyalty , patriotism or lack of it, comes in many forms and is to be found at many levels. Patriotism is certainly not the exclusive preserve of one class or one community. We would do well to scrutinise the actions and allegiances of many who call themselves nationalists, who demand and have control over wealth and privilege; but who do not hesitate to plunder our forests, take over our fields and homes for private profit, displace millions from their homes, and then scream for financial help when the markets drop! A TIME TO ASK THE DIFFICULT QUESTIONS……………….. Yes – it is highly likely that today’s military establishment in Pakistan has encouraged and trained terrorists , but will going to war solve the core issues between us? Three wars down the road we are no closer to solving many of the intractable issues between us, including Kashmir.- so what should the road ahead look like? Is the phenomenon of terrorism peculiar to Islam alone? Should we be going back in time and history to look at guerilla movements and the use of force by the State? Struggles for self-determination? What have been the common factors that have led people to take up armed struggle? What about those millions of decent god fearing Muslims who have no truck with terror, terrorism or Jihad – except in its real interpretation of a struggle within each individual.. Perhaps the phrase `enough is enough’ should be applied more rigorously to our own track record of violence – often genocidal - across the sub-continent – starting with partition. The birth of Bangladesh was rooted in a basic ethnic and linguistic division among Muslims of East and West Pakistan……The Tamils and Sinhalas are locked in ethnic battles in a predominantly Buddhist country; Nepal has struggled long with violence and poverty but has also replaced Monarchy with a Maoist government in a predominantly Hindu country. For many of us personally the carnage and bloodshed of 1984 following the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, when thousands of innocent Sikhs were slaughtered by their `Hindu’ neighbours as the state stood by and watched, was a kind of wake up call. But 1984 also brought out the best in a whole generation of young and old citizens of the capital who dropped their work and their studies and came together in a spontaneous movement called Nagrik Ekta Manch where hundreds of us worked days and nights to record the gruesome catalogue of barbarity which we never thought we would see in our lifetime. We testified in commissions, we filed petitions – but the guilty were never brought to book. Never again we vowed would we permit state complicity in the killing of thousands of innocents . And then came the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992 – perpetrated by one set of politicians while the others who ran the state stood by and watched. To do nothing is to acquiesce? The Mumbai blasts and killings in 1992 – 93 were almost predictable. Who can sit in judgement or foretell the consequences of the anger that could have taken roots in - 1984 and 1992 – especially when the Guilty were never punished? And then it happened again to the Muslims in Gujarat in 2002; And we still did not take to the streets to protest and the architects of that genocide are today’s rulers and favoured corporate destination.. Beyond community and religion there is more to remember in this vast and ancient land where there are few records and no one cares to recount the atrocities and injustice that have been visited upon the dalits and the tribals over time immemorial by the genteel, cultured upper castes in this Incredible India of ours; This continues in the India Shining of the 21st Century. How can we continue to accept the sheer ferocity and violence and torture indulged in by various formations of para military on the people of the North East, and Kashmir to this day. Can they really be expected to love us? And have any of us at any time ever questioned what is being perpetrated on our own people by the state in the name of Salwa Judum to fight the Maoists or Naxals – who are also protesting injustice, oppression and years of neglect and corruption ? So when we now come out to raise our voices – let us remember to protest first of all the many things we need to put right in our own politics, our social evils, our corruption, our inability [or unwillingness?] to provide the basic needs for nearly 50% of our people. These are the real factors that underlie violence. I ask myself over and over again as I see the pictures of the lone terrorist to be caught alive, what drives them to such acts – is this the ultimate indictment of our failure as a people and a state, to create meaningful work and opportunities for youth across the region? So before we spread more suspicion and prejudice, let us stop and think – what really needs to be done. Perhaps we need to raise our voices in favour of continuing to dialogue with Pakistan and its admittedly weak and fledgling elected civilian government? Thanks to the tireless efforts of Track II and Track III efforts over a couple of decades, today we have a constituency within Pakistan that wants friendship with India and vice versa. Certainl this helped in creating a basis and demand for democracy across the border. Any senseless action at this time can be catastrophic – especially since we are both nuclear states. So can we bear in mind that we are not against Pakistan but against the elements there who instigate and promote terrorists – and yes the pressure on them should be tough and relentless. Today it is imperative that we work together to say NO to War Mongering – on the basis that this action against an innocent Indian state gives us the right to attack Pakistan. It is also imperative that we fight our instinct for Islamophobia – a readiness to say we understand everything about the motives and drives of the terrorists by pointing to their `Muslim’ identity – and the other myth that the Quran sanctions violence against non- believers – and that is how we explain the roots of the attacks in Mumbai.. SEEKING SOLUTIONS If we are serious about addressing terror then the only way is for us in both India and Pakistan – and the rest of the region – to reach out, work with each other – to confront, to challenge, and to mobilize the power of people to defeat the forces of violence and terror be they state or non-state actors. For a start, in India – let us demand an immediate review and implementation of the various Commissions of Enquiry on the Police Force and their Status and Role. If this can be spearheaded from across the country – it will be difficult for the politician to postpone it any more. The issue of auditing political party funds and the present electoral process is another key area which has led to many vitiations of all norms. Perhaps it is also a moment when we need to be looking in very different directions to find ways of working together with our neighbours – be it Pak India problems, or with Bangla desh or Sri Lanka. In this era where the concerns of Climate Change and Global warming are upper most among the potential threats to peoples and geographic regions around the world – maybe we can look at creative ways to engage with each other on ecology, on our shared maritime and marine reserves, on coastal questions, and water.There are so many pressing problems for which collective solutions need to be found – and there is nothing like working together on mutual problems to develop a better understanding of each others strengths and weaknesses. Finally, with India being the Big Brother in this region – there is a bigger onus of responsibility on us to take the constructive initiatives. It will soon be Id - a time for celebration and introspection – may it also be a time to work for Peace. In closing I want to share with you the comments of Bharathi, who has worked in our village home for over 15 years . After watching the endless TV channels and their often sensational projection and coverage of the agony of Mumbai – she turned to me and said simply and with no doubt in her voice “Bai – Athank tho Athank hai na? Wo kaisa Hindu ya Mussalman ho saktha? ‘ Surely Terror is terror ? – how can it be Hindu terror or Muslim terror?” In her simple view of the world – there is a deep and profound sense of both tolerance and respect for humanity. Over the years she who never knew of a world outside her own village reality, has grown to love and welcome into our home our Pakistani son-in-law and members of his family; our Sri Lankan nephew in law; my two Muslim sisters – married to my brother and cousin respectively; my niece and her English husband; and most recently our African-American son-in-law. She has interacted and understands the issues affecting the tribal and dalit activists with whom yet another son-law works. And she treats them all with the same smiling warmth and dignity. To me she embodies all that is valuable and enduring in this sub-continent and for which I am eternally grateful because at the end of the day, this is what sustains and nurtures our weary spirits and will, Inshallah, take us into a different tomorrow.. Lalita Ramdas from Bhaimala Village, Alibag – across the harbour from Mumbai, today Sunday Dec 7 2008 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 23 15:40:17 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:10:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Indian response to Terror Attack 'appropiate'/'subdued' - DAWN, Pakistan Poll Message-ID: <538468.55414.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This is one of the most astounding Poll results I have ever come across. Even more astounding than the high turnout in the J&K Elections.   An ongoing Poll in Web edition of DAWN Newspaper in Pakistan shows the following results (as of 23/12/2008) to the question " Has the Indian government's response to the Mumbai attacks been: Appropiate OR Excessive OR Subdued?"   As of 23/12/2008 out 34,207 respondents :   - 46% say 'the response' has been APPROPIATE   - 41% say 'the response' has been SUBDUED   - Only 14% say 'the response' has been EXCESSIVE   The percentages add up to 101% instead of 100%. Presumably that is a tabulating error from fractions.   http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/23/index.htm   It would appear that at least amongst the DAWN Web-Readership the evaluation is that maybe with some pressure exerted agasinst Pakistan by India, Pakistan will be provoked into rectifying it's existence away from being the 'epicentre of global terrorism'.   Kshmendra Kaul     From niveditasubramaniam at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 16:01:21 2008 From: niveditasubramaniam at gmail.com (Niveditha) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:01:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Help!! Message-ID: <9e3c887f0812230231k7d330f01j93e19709b30bb688@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am currently working on a paper for a children's literature conference for which I desperately need two papers that I don't have access to!If anyone on this list does,could you please email them to me? These are the links for the papers: http://www.springerlink.com/content/xn1615307xv45h30/ http://www.mlajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1632/pmla.2007.122.2.502 Thanks! Niveditha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 23 16:52:59 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:22:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "The real enemies" - by Tavleen Singh in Indian Express Message-ID: <323543.72881.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "The real enemies" by Tavleen Singh Dec 21, 2008   As Shri Abdur Rehman Antulay unintentionally reminded us last week, India has enemies within her borders that are more treacherous than those who come in boats from the sea. If we had a real Prime Minister, instead of one by appointment to Her Majesty the Queen, not only would the Minister for Minority Affairs be sacked, he would be tried for sedition. How dare he suggest that in the middle of the worst terrorist attack India has ever faced, our police officers are so evil that instead of fighting the terrorists they plotted to kill one of their own officers? If Antulay had any sense he would stop trying to explain why he, as a former Chief Minister of Maharashtra, made such baseless charges. He makes it worse every time he goes on television and says that he is only speaking out against those he believes sent Hemant Karkare deliberately to his death and not against the entire police force.   In Pakistan, he is the newest hero. Did they not always tell us there was no proof that those responsible for the horrors in Mumbai were Pakistani? Did Pakistan’s alleged security experts not point at ‘Hindu Zionists’? And, now incontrovertible proof that they were right. A Minister in the Government of India has confirmed on national television that he has doubts about who killed Karkare and that “lakhs of Indians” share his doubts. He seems not to notice that in saying this he is really saying that the Indian state is too venal to be trusted.   At least he stops there. A famous Indian novelist—whose name I will not take because it would defile this column—goes further. In the latest of her series of hysterical diatribes against India and all things Indian, she justifies the attacks on Mumbai. There is a context to everything, she says, and so we must understand that the jihadis who want to destroy India have good reason to do so. The novelist is not alone in her hatred of all things Indian. Nearly every Indian writer who has written in the Western media since the attack on Mumbai has found reasons why the jihad against India is justified. Look at our ‘atrocities’ in Kashmir and look at what happened in Gujarat and what about the Babri Masjid. One British newspaper went so far as to say that India used 9/11 to treat its Muslims even worse than we did before. This editorial was used by a Pakistani journalist to explain what happened in Mumbai.   Well, you know what, I am sick of it. I am sick of India being blamed all the time for everything by people who would not dare open their mouths in a country that did not offer them the freedom that India does. This freedom has not come easily. We have fought impossible odds to create a country whose fundamental principles are democracy, secularism and universal human rights. To say that we have succeeded fully would be foolish. There are flaws, failures of all kind, especially when it comes to giving everyone access to the fruits of democracy, but at least we continue trying. The country that has become the epicentre of the global jihad is still struggling to rid itself of the effects of decades of military rule. Yet, if you were to read the views of our refugee writers who make their money and win their prizes in New York and London, you would think that there was no difference between India and Pakistan.   Anyone with basic knowledge of the Indian sub-continent should know that it is not possible for groups like the Jaish-e-Mohammed and the Lashkar-e-Toiba to survive in India. Yet, our enemies within persist in spreading the canard that these violent Islamist groups are no different from the Bajrang Dal. You would have to be a real fool to believe this but because the message is spread by credible ‘intellectuals’ of leftist persuasion, it is believed by gullible Western journalists. It appalled me to read an editorial in the Financial Times while Mumbai was still under siege that said the terrorists could be Hindu because one of them (Kasab) wore sacred Hindu threads on his wrist.   The Indian state is corrupt, weak and incompetent but anyone who believes that it is capable of organising the attack we saw on Mumbai has to be mad. If anyone needs proof, they only need to look at the effete, namby-pamby manner in which the Indian state has dealt with the aftermath of the attack on Mumbai. Not only has it been unable to force Pakistan to act against the jihadis who fight their war against India from its soil, it has not even been able to act against the enemies within. In any other country there would be sedition trials.   http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-real-enemies/400963/   From ishwarsridharan at yahoo.com Tue Dec 23 17:21:56 2008 From: ishwarsridharan at yahoo.com (Ishwar Sridharan) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:21:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Query on Indo-Pak economic history Message-ID: <4950D0DC.3040402@yahoo.com> Hi all, In one of the recent op-ed articles on Dawn, the Pakistani English daily, the author Shahid Javed Burki had remarked the following in his article[1] ... Initially, the Indian government tried hard to cripple Pakistan economically as it was trying to stand on its feet after having gained independence. ... Is this an opinion or a substantiated fact? If that was indeed the case, it'll be interesting to know why, how and by whom was this done. Comments, anybody? -- Thanks, Ishwar. [1]http://dawn.com/2008/12/23/op.htm#1 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 23 17:38:03 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:08:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Hemant Karkare - despised by some Muslims too, not just by some Hindus Message-ID: <836910.27745.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I could not help smiling ruefully. I would have laughed if all of it were not so tragic. The disgusting conspiracy theorists.    The conspiracy theories have come full circle with some trying to highlight that some Indian Muslims too bore a grudge against Hemant Karkare.   An Editorial (16-31 May 2000) is being quoted from "MG- The Milli Gazette -Indian Muslims' Leading English Newspaper"   The relevant extract from that editorial is:   "  The report of People’s Rights Commission has also accused as many as 60 top officials in the police department of committing atrocities against people. These include the former Bombay police commissioner RD Tayagi and DCP (Narcotics) Hemant Karkare. But instead of punishing these officials, they were rewarded by promotions for what good they had done to the poor and hapless people."    http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15-5-2000/Maliana_never.htm     Kshmendra     From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 21:49:26 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:49:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fwd: inoffensive contemporary indian art - In-Reply-To: <77aa94900812221018n19ff544cp90041ada657d3991@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70812220856x5e6fe11fh2343cf67c38140a9@mail.gmail.com> <77aa94900812220939t6a6c2176ie0d9a9a6b76a68ef@mail.gmail.com> <77aa94900812221018n19ff544cp90041ada657d3991@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812230819v7dc0af7co3b55c3bcb70307f5@mail.gmail.com> thanks dear chakarborty for reflecting on the review, i liked it many ways, i too will do my bit to enlarge the debate, but later right now you may click please http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2008/dec/15/art-india-serpentine-gallery is On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Angshukanta Chakraborty wrote: > I think the problem of 'inoffensiveness' will be taken care of by the tone > and views of the 'independent' reviewer himself, whose yardstick of > measuring Indian art is basically his characteristic ignorance of Indian > art. That he begins with the matter-of-fact admission is also pretty > much giving away the redundant-though-still-nomative take on > Indian/non-Western art - Orientalised ornaments in pigments or pixels which > isn't much worth knowing. He's amazed by the absence of things he considers > offensive, which in a way boils down to some irreligious metaphor hurting a > sentiment here or there thus successfully sparking off a mediagenic > controversy . Perhaps, more than the physical absence of M F Hussain's > artworks in this particular exhibition, which according to the reviewer, > could have generated some aesthetic offensiveness, it is worth thinking how > the questioning of Hussain's 'legendary' status, or brushing off his > 'comparisons with Picasso', actually betrays the reviewer's openly expressed > Eurocentrism, and only a half-baked appreciation of art under a different > rubric. The ignorance is not a start, it is a startling reiteration of the > perpetuity of one-sided knowledge-systems that take inordinate amount of > pleasure in rehashing old myths in a world that has gone much further ahead > in understanding, intermingling and expanding the categories of art , > aesthetics and cultures. But for some, represented by the likes of this > particular reviewer, the Art under discussion has not only not arrived, it > very much never quite existed without the aesthetic sanction and > appropriation of these self-aggrandising Western culture industries. > > > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:56 PM, indersalim wrote: > >> may click to read on Indian art abroad >> >> >> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/safe-passage-to-india-inoffensive-indian-contemporary-art-1066813.html >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From patrice at xs4all.nl Tue Dec 23 22:27:47 2008 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:57:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Reader-list] Query on Indo-Pak economic history Message-ID: <14972.90.40.128.119.1230051467.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> > Hi all, > > In one of the recent op-ed articles on Dawn, the Pakistani English > daily, the author Shahid Javed Burki had remarked the following in his > article[1] > ... > Initially, the Indian government tried hard to cripple Pakistan > economically as it was trying to stand on its feet after having gained > independence. > ... > Is this an opinion or a substantiated fact? If that was indeed the case, > it'll be interesting to know why, how and by whom was this done. > Comments, anybody? > > What I remember to have read years ago when writing my thesis, is that Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, home minister at the time of the transfer of sovereignity, vengefully came down on British high civil servant in the GoI (depriving him of his full pension rights by sacking him one day before his retirement was due) because that fellow had dared to write a report to the effect that Pakistan was viable as an economic entity - not a very welcome news to the people in power in New Delhi. So the above would seem credible, at least to me... Cheers, patriwio and Diiiinooos! From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 23:05:09 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:05:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?THE_=91K=92_FACTOR_-_Irrationality?= =?windows-1252?q?_of_rational_realist_films=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <6353c690812230935jc3d8fb7w40aaff83724fa219@mail.gmail.com> THE 'K' FACTOR - Irrationality of rational realist films.. by Pooja Shali Films From Kashmir, Films For Kashmiris, Without Kashmiri Pandits! In the world of documentaries, every artist has the freedom to choose and deliver at his own will. All the more better if supported by the government and masses. As every filmmaker tricks the audience into believing his theme as abject truth, the masses too tend to drown themselves into it. This weekend proved to be a crammed package of films on J&K. As one channel flashed a documentary based on a famous poem, the other channel followed with a special report on the children of conflict. Like always this viewer remained glued hoping against hope to catch a minority face…but I am glad my hopes were not raised. The first film reiterated their 'freedom struggle' as 'satyagraha'; the other believed that the children of the valley are the worst victims. Once more we had to watch the pain of the majority (Muslim) community, their kith and kin and their troubles caused at the hands of the ruthless Indian government. Once again the filmmakers decided to ignore that 'there once lived a minority that now has the whole galaxy as their home except their own valley'. It is always troublesome to watch young lives suffer, their faces becoming a paradox to peace. But to believe that the conflict war zone weighed heavy only on population presently in the valley, one is mistaken. read more at.. http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2008/12/k-factor.html Thanks on behalf of Roots In Kashmir Aditya Raj Kaul From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 23:57:20 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:27:20 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Chittagong Hill Tracts: Between ashes and hope Message-ID: Election 2008 Chittagong Hill Tracts: Between ashes and hope http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=68402 From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 04:34:39 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:04:39 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on National Identity Cards-5 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812231504q3ff3b429wba902c384a59da31@mail.gmail.com> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_45/b3756001.htm Privacy in an Age of Terror To track terrorists, government snoops will have to track you, too NOVEMBER 5, 2001 Khalid Al-Midhar came to the attention of federal law enforcers about a year and a half ago. As the Saudi Arabian strolled into a meeting with some of Osama bin Laden's lieutenants at a hotel in Kuala Lumpur in December, 1999, he was videotaped by a Malaysian surveillance team. The tape was turned over to U.S. intelligence officials and, after several months, Al-Midhar's name was put on the Immigration & Naturalization Service's "watch list" of potential terrorists. When the INS discovered in August that Al-Midhar was already in the U.S., the FBI assigned agents to track him down. By the time the FBI figured out where Al-Midhar was, downtown Manhattan was in flames, part of the Pentagon had been destroyed, and more than 5,000 people were dead. Racing to reconstruct the disaster, agents pulled the manifest of hijacked American Airlines Flight 77--and discovered that Al-Midhar had bought a ticket for the flight using his real name. As politicians, businesspeople, and terrorism experts try to prevent the horror of September 11 from ever being repeated, they are taking a closer look at the story of Khalid Al-Midhar. Could the tiny shred of information about him--his name and his image--have been used to thwart the attack? The answer may be yes. Technology exists that, had it been far more aggressively deployed, might have tracked down Al-Midhar before he stepped on board the plane. The FBI's list of potential terrorists, for instance, could have been linked to commercial databases so that he might have been apprehended when he used his Visa card days before the attack. The videotape of Al-Midhar also could have been helpful. Using biometric profiling, it would have been possible to make a precise digital map of his face. This data could have been hooked up to airport surveillance cameras. When the cameras captured Al-Midhar, an alarm would have sounded, allowing cops to take him into custody. The aim of these technologies is simple: to make it harder for terrorists to hide. That's top priority now--and it's likely to drive a broad expansion of the use of intrusive security measures. Polls taken since September 11 show that 86% of Americans are in favor of wider use of facial-recognition systems; 81% want closer monitoring of banking and credit-card transactions; and 68% support a national ID card. But the quest for safety is also going to come at an incalculable cost to personal privacy. Any tool that is powerful enough to strip away the anonymity of Khalid Al-Midhar--one dangerous traveler among millions of innocents--will do the same thing to ordinary citizens. Their faces will have to be scanned by the same cameras, their spending habits studied by the same computers. The war on terrorism is still in its early days, but one thing is already clear: In the future, information about what you do, where you go, who you talk to, and how you spend your money is going to be far more available to government, and perhaps business as well. "September 11 changed things," says former Federal Trade Commissioner Robert Pitofsky, one of the most forceful privacy advocates in recent decades. "Terrorists swim in a society in which their privacy is protected. If some invasions of privacy are necessary to bring them out into the open, most people are going to say, `O.K., go ahead."' Across a wide range of battlefields, privacy is on the retreat. Many high-tech surveillance tools that were deemed too intrusive before September 11, including the FBI's "Carnivore" Internet eavesdropping system, are being unleashed. Pre-attack legislation aimed at protecting people from unwanted privacy invasions has been shelved, while Congress is on the verge of passing an anti-terrorism law giving cops broad new powers to wiretap, monitor Internet activity, and peer into personal bank accounts. The notion of forcing citizens to carry a national identity card--once anathema to America's open culture--is getting more serious consideration than ever in U.S. history. These developments could wind up having profound implications for our democracy. Privacy involves the most fundamental issue in governance: the relationship of the individual to the state. Since the forefathers, Americans have been committed to the idea that people have the right to control how much information about their thoughts, feelings, choices, and political beliefs is disclosed. It's a matter, first and foremost, of dignity--creating a boundary that protects people from the prying eyes of the outside world. That, in turn, helps to shield religious minorities, political fringe groups, and other outsiders from persecution by the majority. By reducing our commitment to privacy, we risk changing what it means to be Americans. To the extent that ID cards, databases, and surveillance cameras help the government track ordinary citizens, they may make people marginally less willing to exercise basic freedoms--to travel, to assemble, to speak their minds. "It's possible that through a tyranny of small decisions, we could make a nightmare society," says Harvard Law School Professor Laurence H. Tribe. Of course, we're still a long way from that point. Although many civil libertarians worry that the era of Big Brother is dawning, polls show that Americans are still committed to personal privacy and are unwilling to give law enforcers a blank check. President George W. Bush quickly dismissed the notion of a national ID card. And a coalition of left- and right-wing libertarians gave the Anti-Terrorism Act far rougher going than most commentators initially expected. Furthermore, none of the proposals currently on the table--such as installing facial-recognition systems at airports or linking the FBI's databases to those run by the airlines--fundamentally threatens civil liberties. But this is a rapidly evolving issue. We have already abandoned a number of old privacy taboos. If new attacks come and the U.S. is powerless to stop them, a mandate could develop for greater levels of surveillance. Here are some of the key areas in which personal privacy could begin to erode: *What You Do* No matter how hard terrorists try to keep a low profile, they live in the real world. The team that attacked the World Trade Center had to buy plane tickets, take flying lessons, communicate with one another, and draw money from bank accounts. All of these moves leave traces on widely dispersed computer databases. That's why the tool that probably has the most potential to thwart terrorism is data-mining. Think of it as a form of surveillance that casts its eye on computer networks. If cops could survey the nation's computer systems and discover that a member of an extremist group also bought explosives and visited a Web site about building demolition, they might be able to halt a potential attack. Or if someone tried to purchase anthrax, the seller could run an instant background check. Today, those databases aren't linked. The FBI's watch list of suspected terrorists hasn't even been connected to the INS or the State Dept., much less the private sector. A wide variety of laws and taboos has prevented the government from hooking up its files with those of airlines, credit-card companies, and private data-collection organizations. But that's already changing: On Oct. 11, INS chief James Ziglar told a Congressional committee that he is moving to link the agency's computers to the FBI's central database of bad guys. He also wants to require air carriers to submit passenger lists to the INS to prevent suspected terrorists from boarding U.S.-bound planes. Some people, including Oracle Corp. CEO Lawrence J. Ellison, are recommending the creation of even broader databases. Other industry experts, all of whom stand to profit from such a plan, argue that such vast systems are already feasible. For example, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and Kmart Corp. have databases containing over 100 terabytes of information about everything from sales to inventory to deliveries. That's the equivalent of about 200 billion documents--some 100 times larger than the Internal Revenue Service's commercial tax-filing database. "There are real-life data warehouses that absorb information in near real time, process it, and issue alerts within seconds or minutes," says Richard Winter, an independent expert on large database systems. A key challenge will be developing sophisticated software to sift through the databases, pinpointing likely terrorists and suspicious behavior. Working together, a team of criminologists and software developers would need to design profiles of potential evildoers. That has been done in the past to track down serial killers and to thwart hijackings with mixed results. The airline industry's Computer Assisted Passenger Screening system (CAPS) failed to pick out almost all of the September 11 terrorists. But there's good reason to believe the technology can improve. Software maker Sybase Inc.'s new mining software can already analyze up to 1,000 variables, vastly increasing cops' ability to find the needle in a haystack of personal data. Of course, there are huge political and legal hurdles to launching such systems. For one thing, government officials have a long history of abusing their power to collect personal information. Remember J. Edgar Hoover and Richard M. Nixon? For another, databases created for one purpose have a way of being reused in unintended ways. Files that Massachusetts accumulated about citizen health insurance claims, for example, had to be turned over to the tobacco industry when the state sued cigarette makers (though the state took steps to ensure that individuals' identities were masked). Over the long term, widespread deployment of data-mining will depend in large part on the ability of law enforcers to persuade the public that effective guidelines can be designed--and followed. *Who You Are* One of the most controversial issues on the privacy landscape is that of national ID cards. Many Americans are instinctively repulsed by the idea. Passion runs so strong on this issue that the government has repeatedly blocked efforts to use Social Security numbers for drivers' licenses, voter registration, and prison records. The fear is that the Social Security number would become the equivalent of a national ID card. More than 100 other countries, many of them democracies, disagree. They come in many varieties. Germany, after the human rights abuses of the Nazis, takes a minimal approach. Cards contain basic information, including name, place of birth, and eye color. Malaysia, on the other hand, this year launched a project to issue 2 million "multipurpose" cards in Kuala Lumpur. A computer chip allows the card to be used as a combination drivers' license, cash card, national health service card, and passport. That's only the beginning of what's theoretically possible. Given the power of digital technology, criminal records, immigration data, and more could be packed onto ID cards. In fact, they could contain so much data that they become the equivalent of portable personal files. That's still a long way off. From a cop's perspective, ID cards are desirable because they make anticrime databases work better. As things stand now, one typing error at the airline check-in counter--say, John Smiht--and all the fancy efforts to unite Delta Air Lines Inc.'s database with the INS watch list don't add up to much. Forged drivers' licenses or passports--not to mention legitimate alternative spellings, such as Jon Smith or John K. Smith--produce the same problem. A national ID card solves this by turning every person into a reliable data point for entry into larger databases. Once national ID cards are in place, airlines, explosives manufacturers, and border-crossing guards will know exactly which John Smith they are dealing with. So terrorists will have a harder time passing themselves off as ordinary citizens. True, ID cards can be forged. But that problem can largely be managed via "smart" cards equipped with computer chips that can store the cardholders' fingerprints or iris scans as biometric authentication devices. The concern, of course, is that ID cards could lead the country down a slippery slope. Over the long run, say critics, they might be used as a platform for creating new databases. Starting with a card like, say, the one Malaysia just launched, governments could require the ID cards to be swiped into electronic readers every time people shopped, traveled, or surfed the Web and could accumulate an unprecedented quantity of information on their citizens. For now, though, the question of a national ID card appears to be off the agenda, though it's nowhere near dead. Even some longtime civil libertarians are reevaluating. On Sept. 10, "I was a knee-jerk opponent of ID cards," says Harvard University law professor Alan M. Dershowitz. "Now, I've had to rethink the whole thing." *Where You Go* In recent years, scientists have made enormous advances in location-tracking tools. Surveillance cameras with facial-recognition software can pick out criminals in public places. Global positioning satellite (GPS) transponders in cars, boats--and one day, in handheld devices such as phones--send out signals identifying people's latitude and longitude to within 10 feet. Both of these technologies will flourish in an environment free of many of the privacy concerns that clouded their future before September 11. So far, facial-recognition systems are used primarily in highly controlled situations as authentication devices, to vouch for the identities of workers entering, say, a nuclear power plant. They are not often used, especially in the U.S., as a general surveillance device in public places. Tampa police use them in high-crime districts. A few casinos have also installed them. But in the wake of the terror attacks, a security committee formed by Secretary of Transportation Norman Y. Mineta has recommended the aggressive rollout of facial-recognition systems in airports. But it's still unclear how useful they will be. They can still be tricked by people wearing fake beards. And they tend to generate too many false alarms. Unless these glitches get fixed, the devices may never be appropriate for high-traffic settings such as tunnels and bridges. GPS is a different story. The technology works--and it has been rapidly spreading to new places. Before September 11, privacy groups and some legislators had been working to limit the ability of companies to collect location data from customers surreptitiously and to raise the legal standards for enforcement officials to subpoena this material. Those battles, for the time being, are lost causes. If GPS information helps track down terrorists, it will be collected. *Whom You Talk To* Law enforcers need the ability to find out with whom suspected terrorists are talking and what they are saying. That's why the government lobbied for the Anti-Terrorism Act, which gives the feds increased powers to eavesdrop on telephone calls and digital communications made through e-mail, online service providers, and digital devices. Unlike facial surveillance, ID cards, or data-mining--which invade everybody's privacy--the government's new eavesdropping powers will primarily target known suspects. So they don't raise as many issues for the public at large. There's one major exception: Carnivore, a technology the FBI uses to monitor e-mails, instant messages, and digital phone calls. Carnivore generated widespread controversy before September 11 for being too powerful. When installed on a suspect's Internet service provider, it searched through not only the suspect's Web activities but also those of people who used the same ISP. After privacy advocates complained, the FBI scaled back its deployment. Now, the brakes are off. There are widespread reports that the government has hooked up Carnivore to ISPs with minimal oversight. The government will probably soon demand that ISPs and digital wireless providers design networks to make them easier to tap. Just a few months ago, the FBI wouldn't have dared to ask. Now, such a move would barely make the papers. Facial-recognition software. Data mining. National ID cards. Carnivore. For the near future, these technologies are going to be deployed as stand-alone systems, if at all. But we live in a digital age. All of these technologies are built on ones and zeros. So it is possible to blend them together--just as TVs, computers, video games, and CD players are converging--into one monster snooping technology. In fact, linking them together makes each one exponentially more effective. A national ID card, for example, could be used to launch a new unified database that would track everybody's daily activities. Information culled from Carnivore could be stored in the same place. This super database, in turn, could be linked to facial-recognition cameras so that an all-points bulletin could go out for a potential terrorist the second the data-mining program detected a suspicious pattern of conduct. Other, more futuristic new technologies could be added to the mix. Scientists will be able to make much more powerful surveillance devices if they're freed of the privacy concerns that have restrained them in recent years. Already, researchers are working on satellites that can read the unique color spectrums emitted by people's skin and cameras that can tell whether people are lying by how frequently they blink. Left unchecked, technologists could eventually create a nearly transparent society, says David J. Farber, a pioneering computer scientist who helped develop the Net. "All the technology is there," he says. "There is absolutely nothing to stop that scenario--except law." To be sure, nobody is proposing such systems. And they are a long, long way from technical feasibility. But they are within sight--and no more far-fetched than, say, eBay Inc.'s auction-everything Web site was a generation ago. Indeed, unifying the various surveillance systems makes sense from a technological standpoint, and there's likely to be strong pressure, once the tools are in place, to try to make them work better. As the U.S. enters the next phase of the war on terror, it is useful to keep this Orwellian scenario in mind, if only as a warning beacon of some of the hazards ahead. It is also reassuring to know that privacy principles developed in the past still apply in this new world. Surveillance can be checked by laws that require regular audits, that call for citizens to be notified when they're investigated, and that give people the right to correct information collected about them. That's the best way of guaranteeing that, in our efforts to catch the next Khalid Al-Midhar, we don't wind up with Big Brother instead. By Mike France and Heather Green in New York, with Jim Kerstetter in San Mateo, Calif., Jane Black and Alex Salkever in New York, and Dan Carney in Washington From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 04:38:02 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:08:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-6 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/rmay2002/07052002/r0705200210.html 7th May, 2002 NATIONAL IDENTITY CARDS ------------------------------ A proposal to issue Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) to Indian citizens, including the people residing in the border areas of the country is receiving Government's attention. These cards, apart from providing a credible identification system, may have multifarious uses. The issue of MNICs would involve creation of an identification system for more than one billion citizens, streamlining the existing machinery for the registration of birth and deaths at the grass root level and choices of institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government would finalize its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after making necessary preparations, including the legal backing to the scheme. Issuing National Identity Cards under the provisions of the Citizenship Act, 1955 is one of the options available. The issue of National Identity Cards was discussed and endorsed in the conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security held on 17th November 2001. The information was given in the Lok Sabha by the Minister of State for Home Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao in a written reply today. From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 15:01:21 2008 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:01:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [Citizen-Mumbai] Action Alert: On Anti-Terrorism Acts Message-ID: <805947.38034.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> apologies for any cross-posting kabi Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Sukla Sen To: mediainitiative ; "indiathinkersnet at yahoogroups.com" ; mihre at googlegroups.com; citizen-mumbai ; mahajanapada ; bahujan ; Peace Mumbai ; "india-unity at yahoogroups.com" ; "india-force at yahoogroups.com" ; IHRO ; issueonline ; Wake up India ; "invitesplus at yahoogroups.com" ; international-peace-festival ; Samuhik Khoj ; ecological-democracy Sent: Wednesday, 24 December, 2008 2:42:20 PM Subject: [Citizen-Mumbai] Action Alert: On Anti-Terrorism Acts * PLEASE READ AND CIRCULATE * Please go through the following press release where we experss our views on the twin bills which have been passed by the both houses of parliament. We urge that, if you share our views, please sign the online petition addressed to the President of India and please also consider circulating this mail to get more signatures. To sign the petition visit : http://www.petitiononline.com/UPTA/petition.html PRESS RELEASE We, the following organizations had gone through the full texts of the two 'anti-terror bills" that have recently been passed in both houses of parliament and the stated objectives and reasons for promulgation of such acts. While expressing our deep anguish and condemnation in no uncertain terms of Mumbai incident of November,2008 and other similar acts of violence on the citizens of India , we note with concern that taking advantage of such acts, the Government of India and political society as such have been increasingly using military language to emphasise the urgency of the situation and trying to introduce a distinct repressive turn in the politics of criminal justice of our country , manifested in the security legislations and law enforcement measures, such as TADA, POTA, and very recently The Unlawful Activities (prevention) Amendment Bill , and The national Investigation Agency Bill,2008. While assuming that we are living in a risk society, we are wondering why after the Mumbai incident in particular, about which our neighbouring country , Pakistan has been squarely held responsible by the Government and the Media , did political society pass such legislations in a quickest possible manner ,which are exclusively meant for citizens of India. We do not agree to the perception that the protection of human rights stand in opposition to effective action against "terrorism". We hold that that the challenge of the State is not to promote security at the expense of human rights , but rather to ensure that all people enjoy respect for the full range of rights. We do hold that the action against "terrorism" can be pursued without compromise or without undermining the human rights and trained We are constrained to argue that the claim of the Government regarding the newly introduced bills about safeguards 'against any possible misuse of such provisions" is a false commitment since there is no such safeguard incorporated in the bills. Rather Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Amendment (UAPA) has structurally infringed on human rights in a number of ways--developing exceptions to human rights based on the seriousness of the offence, expanding the definitions of exceptional categories and arguing that curtailment of a human right is necessary for the promotion of human rights of other individuals, and propounding a " duties and responsibilities based citizenry" thesis. Our concerns in respect of these bills include – vague and broad definitions of " terrorism "in these bills would inevitably lead to infringement of the freedom of expression and the freedom of association ; Insertion of new clauses to the section 43 of the principal Act, UAPA, ,which include power of arrest , search at any time of houses of any person on the basis of any document , any article would only result in harassment, illegal detention and other violations of human rights ; Permitting longer detention of "terror suspects" upto 180 days which would allow the investigating agencies to detain people without charge and trial and would get ample scope for using false evidence ,and additional blank check permission of taking a detained person from judicial custody to police custody at any point of time would further aggravate /facilitate torture ; permitting harsh and tough procedures for the detained person to obtain bail which curtails the rights of the accused ; 1. permitting absolute denial of bail to foreign nationals , which destroys the principle of non-discrimination on grounds of nationality and the principle of fair trial ; 2. most importantly, permitting reversal of age-old pillar of natural justice regarding the presumption of innocence would show disrespect to the most basic principles of fair trial ; 3. permitting more tough and difficult procedures pertaining to sanction for prosecution against erring and delinquent investigating officers , which would only enhance the culture of impunity . 4. permitting curtailment of appeal period by the accused , which seriously jeopardizes the rights of the accused in getting fairness in the process of the administration of justice ; 1. permitting anonymous witnesses , which would limit and suspend the rights of the accused to examine the witnesses on same terms as the prosecution. To sum up, these bills under review, indicate a spirit of minimalism, particularly in the arena of the rights of suspects and defendants in the criminal process ; the bills seriously limit, suspend , undermine and even destroy certain non derogable rights , as recognized by International Laws and Covenants. In the name of security , the entire population would henceforth be viewed and considered as 'possible terrorists" / "terror suspects and are bound to live in a atmosphere of insecurity , fear and of intimidation, which in turn would defeat the very declared purpose of the bills- to ensure the security of population. These bills restrict human rights in such a way that calls into question the basic principles of rule of law , India's commitment to international laws and standards relating to promotion and upholding of human rights . These bills have condensed all the power in the hands of a single branch of the government, thereby have undermined the ideologies of importance of individual rights, the separation of powers, process of judicial review of such security legislations,. Our experiences have shown that these security measures only help strengthen tyranny . With these observations, we are demanding the unconditional repeal of these 2 draconian bills . We do hold that under the existing laws , effective action against 'terrorism could be taken. APDR, TASAM, NAGARIK MANCHA, GANA PRATIRODH MANCHA,USDF, SANHATI, BMC, SEZ BIRODHI MANCHA, IC,PRESDENCY COLLEGE, CCSM, AKINCHAN PATRIKA, FORUM FOR INTELLECTUALS,MASUM,FAMA Date: 23.12..2008 Venue: Press Club of Calcutta --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizen-Mumbai" group. To post to this group, send email to citizen-mumbai at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizen-mumbai+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizen-mumbai?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo..com/invite/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 16:01:10 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:31:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org Message-ID: <164977.30140.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I posted a comment yesterday (23/12/2008) on Kafila.org. The comment was on a posting by Shivam Vij "A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir" that had appeared on this List also.   Comments on KAFILA have to be approved by the Moderator(s). It was approved and my comment appeared on the KAFILA website. That was yesterday.   Today I found that my comment has been deleted. Interesting.   I wonder what led to this 'second thoughts' censorship.   Kshmendra    From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 16:06:36 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:06:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deadline ..26th December for Pakistan to Act ? Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812240236s2cba8a57mff3be821cd1c2e81@mail.gmail.com> "Whatever theymay say ....i believe that each leader is playing to their respective masses and just building a hysteria." http://once-upon-a-time-in-the-west.blogspot.com/2008/12/ww4-file-new-delhi-imposes-december-26.html WW4 File: New Delhi imposes December 26 deadline for Islamabad to crack down on Mumbai attack plotters, US prepares for "worst-case" scenario *- Indian Government Holds "War Room" Meeting This Past Saturday, **Top General Kapoor Arrives in Jammu and Kashmir Today to Assess Operational Preparedness of Troops* ** *- Pakistani Warplanes Carry Out Second Day of Patrols over Lahore, Rumors of Joint Indo-Israeli Air Strikes Provoke Civilians to Panic * ** *- Chief of General Staff Kayani Rejects US Admiral Mullen's Reported Plea to Permit Indian Air Force to Bomb Terror Bases on Pakistani Soil, Warns Islamabad Will Retaliate against** such Military Action "within Minutes" * *- Pakistan and China Sign Defence Cooperation Agreement, Taliban Threatens to Hurl "Hundreds" of Suicide Bombers at Indian Forces* *- Collateral Damage: Nuclear Exchange between India and Pakistan Could Possibly Place 32,000 US Troops in Afghanistan in Harm's Way, Troop Strength to Double in 2009* According to a report from today's edition of Stratfor, following the November 26 Mumbai terrorist attacks India imposed a 30-day deadline on Pakistan to crack down on the plotters and accomplices. New Delhi attributesthe bloody plot that killed 173 people to Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and elements of Islamabad's Inter-Services Intelligence agency. The Stratfor report was subsequently picked up by the ARY Television Network, which is owned by Dubai-based Pakistani businessman Haji Abdul Razzak Yaqoob ("ARY"). ARY One World states: *The report said India using time to prepare its military forces, and waiting when the time comes to act. However, the report said, it is still unclear how far India will take this military campaign and to what extent the US operations in Afghanistan will be affected. The intelligence publisher reported that the US, knowing its "limitations" of the relationship with New Delhi, is already preparing for "a worst-case scenario." * Pictured above: The Taj Mahal Hotel, which was stormed and occupied by terrorists from Pakistan on November 26, burns in Mumbai. Although we previously blogged that the Indian government is pursuing a policy of "opaque mobilization" with respect to preparing air strikes against LeT camps in Pakistan, the Pakistani media is finally reporting on Indian troop movements, related to the Indian Air Force's endeavor to strengthen the country's air defenses, near the common border. Yesterday's edition of India Todaypicked up the Pakistani story: *India has started deploying troops along Rajasthan border facing Pakistan and tightened security in and around Indian defence airstrips, a leading Pakistani online portal Geo News claimed on Monday quoting unnamed sources. In a Jaisalmer-datelined despatch, the portal said the security around places of strategic importance has been stepped up. More radars and quick reaction teams have been deployed along the India-Pakistan border. The Indian defence authorities didn't confirm the reports on the troop build-up in the Rajasthan sector or any other location along the India-Pakistan border. The portal said the Indian Air Force had initiated these measures to strengthen its air defence to face any eventuality at a short notice.Additional hangars and runways have been prepared and all the radars have been put on high alert. Tight radar surveillance is being maintained to keep a watch on any suspected movements along the border. Indian forces were on regular firing exercises at locations like Lathi Firing Range in Jaisalmer, Mahsan in Bikaner, Suratgarh and Ganganagar. * These military deployments, Pakistan's Nationreports, follow Saturday evening's four-hour "war room" meeting chaired by Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi. Present at the meeting were Defence Minister A.K. Antony, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Home Minister P. Chidambaram, National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan, and the chiefs of all three military branches and India's intelligence agency. Meeting participants evaluated the security preparedness across the country and the troop response, and discussed the country's security preparedness and selective strikes on terror camps across the border. Today, reports the Times of India, army chief General Deepak Kapoor arrived at Siachen Glacier and "forward areas" of Jammu and Kashmir to assess the operational preparedness of the troops, before returning again to New Delhi with a report to the Indian government. "Since the Mumbai carnage, Army units along the borders with Pakistan have been maintaining a close vigil," the news source relates, "Some of IAF fighter aircraft squadrons in bases in forward areas have been on a 'cockpit alert' under which the force remains ready for military operations." The same source confirms that PM Singh and senior government ministers held deliberations with top brass at the Prime Minister's Office in South Block this past Saturday. As a result of that meeting DM Antony ordered that all leave to military personnel will be cancelled until April 2009 "in view of the situation along the borders." The Times of Indiaalso reports today that there is heavy aerial traffic around Chandigarh Air Force Station, primarily Soviet/Russian-built Il-76 and AN-32 troop transports en route to Jammu and Kashmir: "Sources in [the Indian Air Force's] Western Air Command said on Monday that the latest moves have been taken to maintain 'optimum operational preparedness' and added a consistent increase in average flying effort had contributed to this." In Islamabad, the Indian mediareported yesterday, rumors of an imminent military attack from India are circulating in the wake of a warning pronounced on Monday by Pakistani Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar Chaudhry: "If India tried to thrust war, then the armed forces of Pakistan have all the potential and right to defend the country. The defence of Pakistan is in strong hands. India would never want war because if it breaks out, then god forbid the situation might develop into a nuclear war." On Monday Pakistani Air Force warplanes, whose pilots are on high alert, flew over the cities of Lahore and Rawalpindi, igniting fears that India had alerady launched attack against LeT sites. Flights bound for Dubai from Lahore and another from Quetta were halted while all entry passes at Lahore airport have been cancelled. Sources said that such measures were taken for landing of the PAF aircraft in case of any emergency while they flew over Lahore and Rawalpindi. However, Pakistani officials denied that PAF fighter jets were flying to counter Indian attacks. PAF warplanes continued to patrol the skies over Lahore today, reports Pakistan's GEO TV . According to "reliable sources" cited by Pakistan's Posttoday, the reason for this flurry of flights by the PAF was a report that *the Indian and Israeli air forces allegedly planned to attack the country's nuclear installations on Monday*: "Pakistan's Nuclear Control and Command Authority was directed to take necessary measures to deal with any emergency situation." Yesterday, Pakistan's Nationpresented a similar scenario, sans Israeli involvement: *Indian Air Force intends to hit certain target in Lahore and Azad Kashmir during the next 24 hours in the same way as the US Air Force is doing in the tribal areas of Pakistan, the sources confided. As per source Pakistan military leadership has refused to accept US pressure and deployed F-7 fighter jets at Lahore Air-base which are fully capable of not only intercepting Indian strikes but also counter-attacking effectively. All the air-force stations have been put on high alert and military leadership has made it clear on the US that in case of Indian attack, Pakistan will at once discontinue logistic support to US and shift it army from the western front to the eastern.* The tense situation between India and Pakistan is further complicated by Islamabad's alliance with Beijing and the stateless Taliban, ousted from Afghanistan in October 2001 and now operating from bases in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province. On December 15 Pakistan's General Tariq Majid travelled to China on a weeklong official visit, during which time he met with General Chen Bindge, Chief of General Staff of the People's Liberation Army. After the talks, both countries signed an agreement that reaffirmed their commitment to combat terrorism and enhance military cooperation. PLA General Chen "appreciated Pakistan's role in war against terrorism and assured China's full support." No doubt Pakistan appreciates China's support, but the Pakistani government is probably not so eager to accept the endorsement of the outlawed Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. In a telephone interview from an "undisclosed location" with Pakistan's The News, Baitullah Mehsud, leader of the outlawed and exiled terrorist government, threatened to hurl hundreds of suicide bombers at invading Indian forces: *Hundreds of our fighters have been given suicide jackets and explosive-laden vehicles for protection of the border in case of any aggression by the Indian forces. The time has come, to wage a real jihad that the Taliban had been waiting for. We know very well that the visible and invisible enemies of the country have been planning to weaken this lone Islamic nuclear power. But the mujahideen will foil all such nefarious designs of our enemies. *The Taliban may have already infiltrated India *and* Pakistan's armed forces, as revealed in a story filed by New York Timesjournalists based in southern Asia, where it is already December 24: *The police in Indian-administered Kashmir announced Tuesday the arrests of three suspected suicide bombers who they said were Pakistani nationals using fake Indian identity cards. The men were found at a hotel in Jammu, the winter capital of Kashmir state. The police declined to say how they were tipped off. Kuldeep Khoda, the state director general of police, told reporters in Jammu that they were members of the banned Jaish-e-Muhammad organization, based in Pakistan. Indian police described one of the men as a Pakistani soldier. *Meanwhile, in an effort to thwart another Indo-Pakistani war, Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, hastened today to Islamabad, where he met with President Asif Ali Zardari, Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, and national security head Mehmood Ali Durrani. During these meetings, contends the Pakistani media, *Mullen urged the country's leadership to stand down in the event that the Indian Air Force bombs terrorist bases on Pakistani soil.* Unimpressed by such a suggestion General Kayani rumbled that his forces will retaliateagainst Indian surgical strikes "within minutes." "The armed forces are fully prepared to meet any eventuality,as his men are ready to sacrifice for their country," General Kayani assured President Zardari. This is Mullen's second trip to Pakistan this month. No doubt he is also concerned about the presence of 32,000 US troops in neighboring Afghanistan, fighting the Tablian insurgency, should a nuclear exchange occur between India and Pakistan. Incoming President Barack Hussein Obama has pledged to support a troop surge in Afghanistan that will double the number of US soldiers on the ground by redeploying them from Iraq. From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 24 16:55:41 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:55:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck" Message-ID: <1fd66c110812240325k69e2da57h3206c3bce170f8e2@mail.gmail.com> Mail Today E-Paper: Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck This page was sent to you by: mail at shivamvij.com November 16, 2008 Samata men rake up 'IB candidate' muck By Parvaiz Bukhari in Srinagar SEVEN Samata Party ( SP) candidates in the Jammu and Kashmir elections accused on Tuesday their party leadership of " luring them with money" to contest the polls at the behest of " intelligence agencies". Their statement (MAIL TODAY has recorded it) adds fuel to the recent controversy that the huge voter turnout in the last six phases of the seven- tier polls was stagemanaged by intelligence agencies. SP has fielded 14 candidates in the state, 13 of them from Kashmir and one from Jammu ( Vijaypur). The seven, who made the allegation, are living in Royal Palace hotel near Dalgate under tight security provided by the government. The SP candidates said their mission was to bring out " committed voters", but they decided to blow the lid since the money promised to them was not delivered. The SP's state president M. Y. Naikoo approached Wali Mohammad Khan, who since 1978 was the chief organiser of the Congress Seva Dal in Kashmir until elections were announced. Naikoo " promised" Khan Rs 5 lakh to contest from the sensitive Amirakadal segment. "He ( Naikoo) told me that half the money would be paid before filing the nomination and the other half immediately after that. But nothing has been given so far," Khan said on the eve of the last phase of polls. "Naikoo is absconding and I suspect he is also an IB ( intelligence bureau) agent, like those who have fielded so many independent candidates," he alleged. The allegations combined with others of direct and indirect coercion by Army in some areas during the six phases may not explain the record voter turnout. It is also a reality that people in Kashmir have defied the separatists' poll boycott call. National Conference president Omar Abdullah have indirectly raised doubts over the number of Independent candidates - 468 in total - in the polls. " Delhi is dividing people by putting up Independents from every nook and cranny in Kashmir," he said. "I wanted to stand in the election. But when I saw some people, who for years have been working for IB, jumping into the fray, I took a step back," said a young politician, corroborating Abdullah's fears. Khan is not alone in the confession box. There are three others in his group - Nazir Ahmed, Mohammad Altaf and Gurmeet Singh - who made similar damning revelations. But they differ in their approach to deal with their worries. Khan is now worried he too would be " perceived" by his supporters as an IB agent, which could spell trouble for him in Kashmir. The state's chief electoral officer B. R. Sharma said Naikoo should respond to the allegations. He said the party is not registered in the state but " the election commission has allowed these candidates the privilege to use the party symbol". The candidates said " Jitender Biduri, the SP general secretary, came to the hotel and promised Rs 5 lakh to each of us in the presence of Naikoo". Biduri denied the allegations. "All of them have joined the party voluntarily," he said. From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 24 16:58:48 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:58:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org In-Reply-To: <164977.30140.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <164977.30140.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, There's a difference between censorship and moderation. Censorship would be if you were to start a blog that the state orders to be blocked, for instance. But Kafila is owned privately, and as such I have the prerogative to delete/appprove/approve-then-delete your comment. Rights of admission reserved. best shivam On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > I posted a comment yesterday (23/12/2008) on Kafila.org. The comment was on a posting by Shivam Vij "A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir" that had appeared on this List also. > > Comments on KAFILA have to be approved by the Moderator(s). It was approved and my comment appeared on the KAFILA website. That was yesterday. > > Today I found that my comment has been deleted. Interesting. > > I wonder what led to this 'second thoughts' censorship. > > Kshmendra > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- mail at shivamvij dot com From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 17:12:25 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 17:12:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <164977.30140.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690812240342m6ca1d08epf07f979ff0123e19@mail.gmail.com> lol Shivam This Hypocrisy is nothing new Kshmendra ji. On 12/24/08, Shivam V wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra, > > There's a difference between censorship and moderation. Censorship > would be if you were to start a blog that the state orders to be > blocked, for instance. But Kafila is owned privately, and as such I > have the prerogative to delete/appprove/approve-then-delete your > comment. Rights of admission reserved. > > best > shivam > > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > I posted a comment yesterday (23/12/2008) on Kafila.org. The comment was > on a posting by Shivam Vij "A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir" that > had appeared on this List also. > > > > Comments on KAFILA have to be approved by the Moderator(s). It was > approved and my comment appeared on the KAFILA website. That was yesterday. > > > > Today I found that my comment has been deleted. Interesting. > > > > I wonder what led to this 'second thoughts' censorship. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > mail at shivamvij dot com > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 17:31:42 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:01:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 In-Reply-To: <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your comment. I totally agree with your views, that people of the subcontinent have a right to have a proof of their existence. I think any statement which asserts that, in a Nation state every legitimate person must have a right to legitimate identity, is based on two underlying assumptions. First being, that the idea of identity is stable and it can be mapped and the second, that the State is a -just- State. That, it will, in the discharge of its duties to accord identity to legitimate citizens will, act in the most benign fashion. This is not to suggest that if a State is not perceived of as -just- then it loses its moral right to give a certificate of citizenship but to caution that if perhaps the case then, any such exercise will be bound to result in a deepening of existing social divisions. Hence, in a situation where we in India are still grappling with gross mismanagement of earlier forms of identity documents, like ration cards, we need to consider seriously, whether we are prepared to deal with yet another exercise to completely digitize personal information of around one billion people. You may like to read a Times of India news report indicative of malaise I have mentioned above- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/rssarticleshow/msid-3208865,prtpage-1.cms Further more, just as it is a matter of great ease, if our personal information is stored in a digital database, which could then easily be manipulated in any form, we must not forget that it is also matter of great ease with which is could be deleted. Hence, if a Name and a number in some National identity database becomes the sole criteria to ascertain and determine the identity and citizenship of a person on legitimate grounds, then we must not be surprised at all in the face of a Kasab like case. I completely empathize with the frustration of the Indian Government. We all know, that Kasab is Pakistani. We all know that his father has said so. Respectable Pakistanis like Asma Jehangir have said so. The Mumbai police has said so. And Kasab himself has said so. Which begs the question that how could we possibly determine whether Kasab is a Pakistani or not, when the official Government position is that his name do not figure in the national database. That no national identification number has been issued in his name. That he does not posses a national citizenship document. If this being the case- then would it be right for us in India to go for a national identity card or perhaps should we try to spend more time thinking about the process through which we can have a more informed debate about the idea of identity first, and then maybe move forward to establish regimes that are involved in the operational or logistical end of the identity discourse. Regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 5:49 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Hi Taha and all. The issue of identity card should also be approached from > a different angle. Pakistan government has recently come up with the > statement that Kasab is not registered as a citizen in the country and that > the state did not issue him any identity card. > Earlier, CPI(M) refused to accept the fact of many deaths during Nandi Gram > and Singur crisis. Since many of those killed were not registered on any > official document, it was difficult to prove many deaths. I believe the same > happened in Nithari case of cannibalism. Around 10 years back another > scandal was brought to the light in UP. Some people had managed to obtain > death certificates for their relatives so that these fraudsters could > misappropriate their land. Many officially dead people had to go through > long court cases to prove that actually they were not dead. > > Many in Indian sub-continent do not exist officially. I believe it is their > right to have a proof of their existence, should such a need arise. > > > Regards > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" < > 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:08 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose > NationalIdentity Cards-6 > > > >> http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/rmay2002/07052002/r0705200210.html >> 7th May, 2002 >> >> NATIONAL IDENTITY CARDS >> ------------------------------ >> >> A proposal to issue Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) to Indian >> citizens, including the people residing in the border areas of the country >> is receiving Government's attention. These cards, apart from providing a >> credible identification system, may have multifarious uses. >> >> The issue of MNICs would involve creation of an identification system for >> more than one billion citizens, streamlining the existing machinery for >> the >> registration of birth and deaths at the grass root level and choices of >> institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an >> integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously >> updated. The Government would finalize its decision only after an in-depth >> examination of all relevant issues and after making necessary >> preparations, >> including the legal backing to the scheme. >> >> Issuing National Identity Cards under the provisions of the Citizenship >> Act, >> 1955 is one of the options available. >> >> The issue of National Identity Cards was discussed and endorsed in the >> conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security held on 17th November >> 2001. >> >> The information was given in the Lok Sabha by the Minister of State for >> Home >> Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao in a written reply today. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 17:39:00 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:09:00 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-7 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240409l59816425r3bb9295866017b67@mail.gmail.com> http://www.defenceindia.com/24-jun-2k2/news18.html New Delhi, June 25, 2002 (PTI) Kalam for National citizens card for ensuring info security Expressing concern over the threat of electronic attacks on India's information technology systems through hacking and other methods, Presidential nominee A P J Abdul Kalam today suggested introduction of a multi-purpose 'national citizen card' in the country as a means to information security. "Our communication network and information generators have to be protected from the electronic attacks through surveillance, monitoring and building technologies to handle such attacks," he said while addressing a Nasscom seminar on Information Security here. He said, the national citizen/smart card needs an integrated approach from multiple departments and industry (rpt industry) and can be used as a voter ID card, to operate bank account, besides as a ration card and with many other applications. It was essential for India to become a knowledge power within a decade, he said, adding, it should be achieved through societal tranformation and wealth generation. "The hard earned wealth and the transformed society, which are the two pillars on which the knowledge society is supported have to be protected in order to sustain a knowlege society," the Presidential nominee said. He said for strengthening information security there should be a focussed approach to Intellectual Property Rights and major private sector initiatives have to be taken in this regard for ensuring a fool-proof system. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 17:41:11 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:11:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-8 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240411y5481136ybe1c1581ce214962@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/rdec2002/16122002/r1612200217.html HOME MINISTRY'S CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE DELIBERATES ON BORDER MANAGEMENT *16th December, 2002* The Parliamentary Consultative Committee of the Ministry of Home Affairs met here today under the Chairmanship of Deputy Prime Minister and Home Minister, Shri L.K. Advani and exclusively deliberated on Border Management. A Visual Presentation was made to appraise the Members on the ground situation and action taken by the Government on the recommendations made by the Group Of Ministers (GOM) constituted to review the National Security System in its entirety after the Kargil encounter*. The Committee was informed that a separate division on Border Management has already been created in the Home Ministry as a follow up of the recommendations to pay focused attention to the issues relating to border management*. The Government was seized with a variety of issues relating to Border Management both land and costal borders. India has 15,126 kms of land border running through 92 districts in 17 States and a coast line of 5,422 kms touching 13 States and Union Territories. It has also 1197 islands accounting for 2094 kms of additional coast-line. The Meeting was told that border specific issues pertaining to Indo-Bangladesh, Indo-Nepal, Indo-Pakistan, Indo-Myanmar, Indo-Bhutan and India-China Borders are now receiving Government's focused attention. The Committee was informed the major initiatives by the Ministry which included, formulation of a Scheme for issuing of Multi-Purpose National Identity Cards to check illegal migration, deployment of high-tech electronic surveillance equipments on the border, Constitution of a State Level Standing Committee and Joint Task Force by border states including the States which have coast-lines, steps to check Religious Fundamentalism, strengthening of Border Area Development Programme, strengthening and Modernizing the Border Guarding Force, Border Fencing and simultaneous diplomatic efforts not to allow Indian insurgent groups to operate from their soil by the Border Countries, like Bangladesh, Myanmar, Bhutan etc. Participating in the discussion some Members expressed concern on the rise in activities by Indian insurgent groups from across the border. It was suggested that some vulnerable borders should be sealed not to allow these forces to operate. They said a time-bound programme should be formulated to check infiltration. Some Members expressed concern on the infiltration through the coast-line and suggested that the coast-guard both on the main land and Andaman and Nicobars should be strengthened to check the activities of the infiltrators. Shri P.C. Alexander expressed concern on the growing Narcotics trade and smuggling of arms and explosives which are intimately linked to this trade. A suggestion was made that the control and administration of the Narcotics trade should be shifted to the Home Ministry from the Revenue Department. The Deputy Prime Minister told the Members that the GOM had recommended the same and Government has accepted it and it is in the process of implementation. The Director General Coast Guard who was present in the Meeting briefed the Members on the Status of the activities of the force. Replying to Members queries on various issues of Border Management the Deputy Prime Minister appreciated the pre-emptive intelligence reports and consequent action taken to liquidate and apprehend the terrorists. He was mentioning the December 14 incident in which two terrorists were killed in the Capital after an encounter. He said the multi-agency set-up (Intelligence) as suggested by the GOM has already functioning. General Shankar Roy Choudhury highly applauded the intelligence agencies for their accurate and swift action. Dr. Karan Singh, Shri G.M. Banatwalla and Shri Somnath Chatterjee commended the Home Ministry for the detailed presentation on the Border Management and also the recent initiatives taken by the Government to strengthen this. The Home Minister thanked the Members for their deep interest in the discussions. S/Shri S.K. Bwiswmuthiary; Holkhomang haokip; G.M. Banatwalla; Bishnu Pada Ray; Somnath Chatterjee; Ali Mohd. Naik; Avtar Singh Bhadana; Anadicharan Sahu; Dr. C.P. Thakur; V. Dhananjay Kumar all from Lok Sabha and S/Shri Dina Nath Mishra; Ram Gopal Yadav; S.V. Virumbi; Dr. Karan Singh; Gen. S.Roy Chowdhury (Retd.); Balbir K. Punj; and P.C. Alexander all from Rajya Sabha participated in the discussions. The Ministers of State, Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao and Shri I.D. Swami attended the Meeting. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 17:46:13 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:16:13 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-9 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240416r224aa97egf13a58bd048853e3@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/raug2002/15082002/r150820021.html PRIME MINISTER'S 15 IMPORTANT INITIATIVES ON INDEPENDENCE DAY 2002* * *15th August, 2002* In addition to the announcements made in the Prime Minister's Address to the Nation today, the following 15 important initiatives on Independence Day, 2002 have been approved : *1: *Indian Railways is celebrating its 150th anniversary this year. A befitting way to pay tribute to this great institution, which has contributed immensely to India's economic progress and national integration, is to put it on a path of fast-track growth. The Government is drawing up an important non-budgetary investment initiative for the development of Indian Railways, to be called the *National Rail Vikas Yojana*. Under this, all the capacity bottlenecks in the critical sections of the railway network will be removed at an investment of Rs. 15,000 crore over the next five years. These projects would include - Strengthening of the Golden Quadrilateral to enable Railways to run more long-distance mail/express trains and freight trains at a higher speed of 100 kmph, at a cost of Rs. 8,000 crore; - Strengthening of rail connectivity to ports and development of multimodal corridors to hinterland, at a cost of Rs. 3,000 crore; - Construction of four mega bridges — two over the River Ganga, one over River Brahmaputra, and one over the River Kosi — at a cost of Rs. 3,500 crore; - Accelerated completion of last mile and other important projects, at a cost of Rs. 763 crore. Today, there are sanctioned projects worth Rs. 40,000 crores, which have been languishing for a long time. At the present rate of allocation, it will take more than 25 years to complete them. The Government has decided to draw up a plan to complete all the viable Sanctioned Railway Projects within the next 10 years. Indian Railways will launch *"Operation Cleanliness"* to significantly improve the standards of sanitation at railway stations, on platforms and inside railway compartments. 2: Work on the Rs. 3,564-crore project for constructing the Udhampur to Baramulla railway line in Jammu & Kashmir will be given on a single-tender basis to IRCON and Konkan Railway Corporation Limited, which have an excellent track record of undertaking construction of railway projects in difficult terrain. As announced by the Prime Minister, during his recent visit to Srinagar, the first train would roll into Kashmir Valley before August 15, 2007. 3: In pursuance of the Prime Minister's announcement on Kargil Vijay Diwas last year, the Ministry of Defence has finalized a scheme for medical care for ex-servicemen and their dependants. It will be launched within three months. The Ministry will take several new initiatives to strengthen national security, of which the important ones are: - Production and induction of AGNI class of missiles into the Army. - Production and induction of Brahmos, the supersonic missile capable of launch from multiple platforms, into the Services. - Supply of two LM-2500 Engines for Naval Frigates to the Indian Navy. - Delivery of 11 Advanced Light Helicopters to the Armed Forces. - Rolling out of T-90 tanks assembled from kits from Russia. 4: The Ministry of Home Affairs will prepare a plan to issue *multi-purpose machine-readable Identity Cards to all citizens*. For this, a pilot project will be launched in October to cover select districts in eight States. This pilot project will be completed within a year. These identity cards will also facilitate the implementation of e-governance initiatives. 5: Social security is a matter of serious concern for most of the citizens. The fall in the interest rates on deposits, coupled with the difficulties faced by some of the financial institutions, have caused worry to the saving community. The Government soon proposes to introduce a comprehensive and participative scheme of social security, which will seek to address the *Life-Time Concerns of the poor and the middle-class* — such as income-enhancing education; provision for the needs of the girl child; emergency health care needs; economic security in old age; and protection to families in the event of untimely deaths of breadwinners. Alleviation of hunger among the most vulnerable sections of the society — such as old people, widows and disabled persons without family or societal support — will be an important component of the initiative on Life-Time Concerns. Accordingly, extending the scope of the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, and taking advantage of the surplus stock of foodgrains, the Government will operationalise *a major food-based social security for the destitute*. 6: So far, nearly two and a half crore *Kisan Credit Cards* have been issued. Efforts will be made to cover the entire population of eligible farmers under this scheme in the next two years. Public sector general insurance companies will promote a new initiative to expand and further improve the provision of *crop insurance *needs of our kisans. The Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution will set up a *National Commodities Exchange* to streamline commodity futures trading in the country. 7: The Ministry of Power, guided by the slogan *"Power for All" by 2012*, will launch a programme for accelerated completion of the electrification of all villages in the country by 2007, and all households in the next ten years, relying significantly on local renewable energy resources and decentralized technologies. For this, it will set up a Rural Electricity Supply Technology (REST) Mission. The Accelerated Power Development & Reforms Programme (APDRP) would intensify the Ministry's cooperative interaction with State Governments to restore the commercial health of SEBs/Utilities. 8: Thanks to the initiatives taken by the Ministry of Communications and Information Technology, *130 lakh new telephone lines* will be added in the coming year. Of these, 75 lakh will be mobile telephones. This is expected to take India's teledensity from 4.38 to 5.61 – the highest ever yearly increase since Independence. The Ministry will implement a comprehensive programme to accelerate e* -Governance* at all levels of the government to improve efficiency, transparency and accountability at the government-citizen interface. *E-Bill Post* and *internet-based E-Post Service* network will be expanded to cover all districts in the coming year. The establishment of *Media Lab Asia*, a joint collaboration between the Department of IT and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA, has been an important initiative to address the challenge of Digital Divide in India and other developing countries. It would pursue high-end research in four areas germane to the needs of rural India: "World Computer" (low-cost computing devices); "Bits for All" (bringing low-cost connectivity to the doorstep of rural masses; "Tools for Tomorrow" (creation of low-cost learning tools to bring out the spirit of innovation among the rural youth); and "Digital Village" (where the above three research programmes would be demonstrated for palpable impact). Media Lab Asia has been designated as an Asian Regional Hub of the United Nations ICT Task Force for coordinating activities of academia and the private sector in the area of IT for the Masses. 9: Ministry of Petroleum, together with other concerned ministries, will take steps to universalize blending, with petrol and diesel, of *ethanol*from various feedstocks, including sugar factories. It will also promote use of other bio-fuels. Sale of gasohol will become mandatory in nine States and four Union Territories from January 1, 2003. 10: Ministry of Textiles will earmark Rs. 100 crore for a one-time special rebate on *handloom* fabrics to kickstart this employment-intensive industry and revive its production cycle. An additional Rs. 125 crore will be spent for skill upgradation of one lakh handloom weavers. The Government will start a special contributory insurance scheme for one million weavers and artisans, which will combine the Jan Shree Bima Yojana with group insurance. 11: The Ministry of Urban Development and Poverty Alleviation is working on early introduction of a *Model Municipal Law* to facilitate participation of the private sector in urban infrastructure projects, especially in water supply and sanitation. The ministry will operationalise *"City Challenge Fund"* this year to promote urban sector reforms, with a special focus on making the urban local bodies viable. The *Valmiki Ambedkar Awas Yojana (VAMBAY)*, which was launched last year, has become highly popular in a short time. The scheme will support construction of over one lakh slum houses in the current year, with an allocation of Rs. 256 crore. The scope of construction of community toilets in slum areas, under the Nirmal Bharat Abhiyan, will be further expanded. 12: The Ministry of Human Resource Development will formulate a *National Plan of Action for Children*, which will contain the developmental targets relating to India's children in the next decade. *A National Charter for Children* will be adopted in the coming year. The *National Nutrition Mission* will be fully operationalised during the current year. The Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) will be universalized in all the 5,652 blocks in the country. 13: The Government will amalgamate all the different schemes, presently being run by Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment, Ministry of Rural Development and Ministry of Urban Development and Poverty Alleviation, for speeding up the *liberation and rehabilitation of scavengers*. 14: The Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment will launch a scheme to provide National Scholarships to disabled persons for pursuing higher technical education. The scheme will be implemented under the *National Fund for People with Disabilities*. 15: The Ministry of Culture will launch a *National Mission for Manuscripts *to preserve and unlock the precious treasurehouse of scientific, intellectual, literary and spiritual knowledge in different Indian languages, contained in different kinds of material. Among other things, the Mission will set up a National Manuscripts Library and promote ready access to these manuscripts through publication in book form as well as machine-readable form. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 17:48:52 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 04:18:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <115572.89401.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shivam   Your answer is as pathetic as the Anti-India propaganda in some of your postings.   My comment was published on the site and subsequently censored out. Censored out by you as you have admitted. Censored out after it was approved for publication by whoever first Moderated my comment and let it be published.    My comment did not get posted on KAFILA by hacking. The comment followed the 'due process' in the PRIVATE KAFILA for approval of comments submitted. It got posted. You censored it out.    You need to expand your understanding of 'censorship'. It includes the 'deletion" of communicative/communicated material.   If your narrow interpretation is taken that "censorship" is an excercise only by the "State", then you acted as the "State". The "State" censors on the basis of what it thinks are justifiable reasons. What were your reasons for the "censoring"? Just a dictatorial and authoritarian whim?   Is this how insecure you are about being contested/critiqued on some of the nonsense you write/propagate?     Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Shivam V wrote: From: Shivam V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 4:58 PM Dear Kshmendra, There's a difference between censorship and moderation. Censorship would be if you were to start a blog that the state orders to be blocked, for instance. But Kafila is owned privately, and as such I have the prerogative to delete/appprove/approve-then-delete your comment. Rights of admission reserved. best shivam On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > I posted a comment yesterday (23/12/2008) on Kafila.org. The comment was on a posting by Shivam Vij "A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir" that had appeared on this List also. > > Comments on KAFILA have to be approved by the Moderator(s). It was approved and my comment appeared on the KAFILA website. That was yesterday. > > Today I found that my comment has been deleted. Interesting. > > I wonder what led to this 'second thoughts' censorship. > > Kshmendra > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- mail at shivamvij dot com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 18:02:31 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:02:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Second Thoughts" censorship on Kafila.org In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <164977.30140.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1fd66c110812240328v92d9ff8n5ef5ed5f6f0498cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812240432s48588d61mf3b195056e084ef9@mail.gmail.com> Kshemendra, I believe that you re wrong . Is it important for your comment to appear in some unknown portal called Kafila .... And more so , you have commented on a post by Shivam [ who ] ......Does his post deserve to be commented on a portal ? Shivam has been polite to refuse your comment ....you should thank him that he has not dubbed you "Indian Nationalist" " Anti Azadi....." or Brahimin superiority .....or different caste things..... That is where all he ends the discussion.... Pawan On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Shivam V wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > There's a difference between censorship and moderation. Censorship > would be if you were to start a blog that the state orders to be > blocked, for instance. But Kafila is owned privately, and as such I > have the prerogative to delete/appprove/approve-then-delete your > comment. Rights of admission reserved. > > best > shivam > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > I posted a comment yesterday (23/12/2008) on Kafila.org. The comment was > on a posting by Shivam Vij "A cruel joke called elections in Kashmir" that > had appeared on this List also. > > > > Comments on KAFILA have to be approved by the Moderator(s). It was > approved and my comment appeared on the KAFILA website. That was yesterday. > > > > Today I found that my comment has been deleted. Interesting. > > > > I wonder what led to this 'second thoughts' censorship. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > -- > mail at shivamvij dot com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 18:05:08 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:35:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all Pakistani nationals." Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik Please follow the full story below. Best Taha http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008 **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured alive after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the help of the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still refusing to accept his nationality. On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his custody hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his legal defence. This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid - more than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time that he had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High Commission, a few days ago. Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near Girgaum Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday. In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had been killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his request, saying he was not a Pakistani. The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it, Kasab also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him into terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad Kahafa as his trainers. Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6. Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the truth about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been examined. "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination to prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and we are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the truth we'll bring to the notice of public," he said. On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We draw the attention of the international community to this." From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 18:10:47 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:10:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha , Let us not talk stupid like Rehman malik . It is a fact no country owns terrorist ,,,,,not even spies..... Even if the spy is a regular with any countrys defense/intelligence department.... In thhis case Kasab was anyway a dacoit turn Jihadi who was promised virgins in Heaven.... Pawan On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA > records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all > Pakistani nationals." > > Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik > > > > Please follow the full story below. > > Best > > Taha > > > > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html > Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008 > > **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured alive > after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the help of > the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still refusing > to > accept his nationality. > > On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his custody > hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his > legal > defence. > > This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid - more > than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time that > he > had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High > Commission, a few days ago. > > Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near > Girgaum > Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and > remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief > Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday. > > In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had been > killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the > Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his > request, saying he was not a Pakistani. > > The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow > terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it, Kasab > also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him into > terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad Kahafa as > his trainers. > > Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is > expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday. > Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6. > > Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the truth > about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been examined. > > "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination to > prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and we > are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not > on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record > of > all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the truth > we'll bring to the notice of public," he said. > > On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give > evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's > verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We draw > the > attention of the international community to this." > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 19:23:48 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:53:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, Thank you for your comments. Please allow me to tell you that I am not at all, in any way whatsoever even remotely interested in thinking whether Kasab was promised virgins in Heaven nor I think I am informed enough to speak whether he was a spy or whether Rehman Malik is stupid. Unfortunately, given my absolute ignorance on rather pertinent issues raised by you, I can neither comment nor engage with you. So Pawan please forgive me, if my post hinted at a possible dialogue on stupidity of Government Officials, or uninhibited sexual forays of Islamic terrorists once they reach their respective paradise or for that matter the grave and the mysterious ways in which spies collaborate with government departments to fulfill deep dark agendas. It was totally unintentional. However, I am deeply interested in the rather more banal issues of -identity- and how it is imagined both on a individual level and on the scale of a nation state. What is the nature of relationship between forms of identification practice and the discourse of through which the idea of identity is clustered. Kasab's post was sent to reader list in this regard. I wanted to draw attention to what I believe is a very important case in Kasab, where we have an individual who is asserting that he is a citizen of a State. The State is refuting that assertion by citing an evidence that he is -in fact- not a citizen because his name does not figure in a database. Now Pawan, if we look closely at this guy Kasab and the dilemma that he is going through right now, then we can perhaps grasp that what we have in front of us is a classic case wherein even if we know that who we are, our assertion can be challenged because our name does not figure in a database. We do know by what Rehman Malik says that, Kasab's name IS not there in the Pakistani National Database, what we do not know, or will perhaps never know is whether Kasab's name WAS ever there?? As far as the issue of identity is concerned my heart goes out to Kasab for in the depths of my heart I want him to tell the world that he is Pakistani, that his name is Kasab. That he is a Muslim. In other words I want him to tell the world what is his name, his residence, his nationality and his religion. In a sense his most primary documented identity. And I want the world to beleive in him. Except for the fact that his name do not figure in a database. I think for all us in India, it is important that we carefully consider all the options before we embark on a digitized identification regime because, Kasab's case is a clear marker of how our earnest assertion about our individual identity may collapse if the cusodian of the memory of ones identity decide to change its mind. Warm regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Dear Taha , > > Let us not talk stupid like Rehman malik . It is a fact no country owns > terrorist ,,,,,not even spies..... > > Even if the spy is a regular with any countrys defense/intelligence > department.... > > In thhis case Kasab was anyway a dacoit turn Jihadi who was promised > virgins in Heaven.... > > Pawan > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > > wrote: > >> "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA >> records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all >> Pakistani nationals." >> >> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik >> >> >> >> Please follow the full story below. >> >> Best >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html >> Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008 >> >> **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured alive >> after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the help >> of >> the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still refusing >> to >> accept his nationality. >> >> On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his custody >> hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his >> legal >> defence. >> >> This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid - more >> than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time that >> he >> had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High >> Commission, a few days ago. >> >> Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near >> Girgaum >> Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and >> remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief >> Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday. >> >> In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had been >> killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the >> Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his >> request, saying he was not a Pakistani. >> >> The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow >> terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it, Kasab >> also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him >> into >> terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad Kahafa >> as >> his trainers. >> >> Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is >> expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday. >> Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6. >> >> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the truth >> about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been >> examined. >> >> "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination to >> prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and we >> are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not >> on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record >> of >> all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the truth >> we'll bring to the notice of public," he said. >> >> On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give >> evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's >> verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We draw >> the >> attention of the international community to this." >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 20:15:22 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:15:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha Thanks for clarifying in detail about why you sent the message about Pakistan's ID system NADRA. Before someone else answers your message and isolates your sentence "my heart goes out to Kasab..." and says: "see these bloody Muslims, their heart really goes out to Kasab the terrorist", let me say a couple of sentences about Pakistan's ID system. Someone might respond to your message saying that "what is this missing of the name in a database you are talking about. Man, it is Pakistan... the rouge state... does the missing of one name matter in that state? We in India have millions whose names are missing - how can you even imagine that Pakistan will have a system by which all citizens are counted and data-based?" Yes this is what I am talking about (since you are interested in ID systems): Pakistan has an amazingly developed system of recording data and issuing ID cards for every citizen. While in India, we are requiring to show our photo IDs for some essential services only now. In Pakistan, one needs to show their ID for every little job. If you go to a post office to send a speedpost, they need to see your ID. They need to see it while purchasing bus and train tickets. And all this not recently, but since at least 10-15 years. I noticed (in a trip) that an average Pakistani carries a number of xeroxes of his/her photo IDs in the pocket as it may be required anywhere. Same goes with the passports. Pakistani passports have bio-metric information and several other types of coding to identify and keep track of the person. I think all this is due to the constant pressure from the world to contain the terror thing. And I would be surprized if Kasab's name is not there in the database. But certainly, how does one trust what the authorities or the Pakistani media say about this. It is certainly possible to beat the system, even by those who manage the system. See the link below for the official version: http://www.nadra.gov.pk/DesktopModules/top/topmore.aspx?tabID=0&ItemID=57&bID=0&Mid=3026 Javed On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > Dear Pawan, > > Thank you for your comments. Please allow me to tell you that I am not at > all, in any way whatsoever even remotely interested in thinking whether > Kasab was promised virgins in Heaven nor I think I am informed enough to > speak whether he was a spy or whether Rehman Malik is stupid. > > Unfortunately, given my absolute ignorance on rather pertinent issues raised > by you, I can neither comment nor engage with you. So Pawan please forgive > me, if my post hinted at a possible dialogue on stupidity of Government > Officials, or uninhibited sexual forays of Islamic terrorists once they > reach their respective paradise or for that matter the grave and the > mysterious ways in which spies collaborate with government departments to > fulfill deep dark agendas. It was totally unintentional. > > However, I am deeply interested in the rather more banal issues of > -identity- and how it is imagined both on a individual level and on the > scale of a nation state. What is the nature of relationship between forms of > identification practice and the discourse of through which the idea of > identity is clustered. > > Kasab's post was sent to reader list in this regard. I wanted to draw > attention to what I believe is a very important case in Kasab, where we have > an individual who is asserting that he is a citizen of a State. The State is > refuting that assertion by citing an evidence that he is -in fact- not a > citizen because his name does not figure in a database. Now Pawan, if we > look closely at this guy Kasab and the dilemma that he is going through > right now, then we can perhaps grasp that what we have in front of us is a > classic case wherein even if we know that who we are, our assertion can be > challenged because our name does not figure in a database. > > We do know by what Rehman Malik says that, Kasab's name IS not there in the > Pakistani National Database, what we do not know, or will perhaps never know > is whether Kasab's name WAS ever there?? > > As far as the issue of identity is concerned my heart goes out to Kasab for > in the depths of my heart I want him to tell the world that he is Pakistani, > that his name is Kasab. That he is a Muslim. In other words I want him to > tell the world what is his name, his residence, his nationality and his > religion. In a sense his most primary documented identity. And I want the > world to beleive in him. Except for the fact that his name do not figure in > a database. > > I think for all us in India, it is important that we carefully consider all > the options before we embark on a digitized identification regime because, > Kasab's case is a clear marker of how our earnest assertion about our > individual identity may collapse if the cusodian of the memory of ones > identity decide to change its mind. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > >> Dear Taha , >> >> Let us not talk stupid like Rehman malik . It is a fact no country owns >> terrorist ,,,,,not even spies..... >> >> Even if the spy is a regular with any countrys defense/intelligence >> department.... >> >> In thhis case Kasab was anyway a dacoit turn Jihadi who was promised >> virgins in Heaven.... >> >> Pawan >> >> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA >>> records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all >>> Pakistani nationals." >>> >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik >>> >>> >>> >>> Please follow the full story below. >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Taha >>> >>> >>> >>> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html >>> Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008 >>> >>> **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured alive >>> after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the help >>> of >>> the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still refusing >>> to >>> accept his nationality. >>> >>> On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his custody >>> hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his >>> legal >>> defence. >>> >>> This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid - more >>> than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time that >>> he >>> had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High >>> Commission, a few days ago. >>> >>> Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near >>> Girgaum >>> Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and >>> remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief >>> Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday. >>> >>> In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had been >>> killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the >>> Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his >>> request, saying he was not a Pakistani. >>> >>> The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow >>> terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it, Kasab >>> also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him >>> into >>> terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad Kahafa >>> as >>> his trainers. >>> >>> Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is >>> expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday. >>> Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6. >>> >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the truth >>> about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been >>> examined. >>> >>> "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination to >>> prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and we >>> are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not >>> on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record >>> of >>> all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the truth >>> we'll bring to the notice of public," he said. >>> >>> On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give >>> evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's >>> verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We draw >>> the >>> attention of the international community to this." >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 20:26:53 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:26:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812240656i596ffe9m472e0e76c54e83cf@mail.gmail.com> Javed, Honestly, i hated to view Mumbai blast as a hindu / muslim issue ....however I must admit that Fatima let me down. It was a covert act by her to create a suspicion. Coming back to the Identity card issue , I do believe that we in India should create the national ID bank. We may have hiccups but then we need to start. Let us not be deterred by failures in system , it is possible wherever there are humans and technology. We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the 'uncontrolled' inflitration.Look at the kind of inflitration we have in North East from Bangladesh etc. Do we need things to continue in the same way ? Pawan On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Taha > Thanks for clarifying in detail about why you sent the message about > Pakistan's ID system NADRA. Before someone else answers your message > and isolates your sentence "my heart goes out to Kasab..." and says: > "see these bloody Muslims, their heart really goes out to Kasab the > terrorist", let me say a couple of sentences about Pakistan's ID > system. > > Someone might respond to your message saying that "what is this > missing of the name in a database you are talking about. Man, it is > Pakistan... the rouge state... does the missing of one name matter in > that state? We in India have millions whose names are missing - how > can you even imagine that Pakistan will have a system by which all > citizens are counted and data-based?" > > Yes this is what I am talking about (since you are interested in ID > systems): Pakistan has an amazingly developed system of recording data > and issuing ID cards for every citizen. While in India, we are > requiring to show our photo IDs for some essential services only now. > In Pakistan, one needs to show their ID for every little job. If you > go to a post office to send a speedpost, they need to see your ID. > They need to see it while purchasing bus and train tickets. And all > this not recently, but since at least 10-15 years. I noticed (in a > trip) that an average Pakistani carries a number of xeroxes of his/her > photo IDs in the pocket as it may be required anywhere. > > Same goes with the passports. Pakistani passports have bio-metric > information and several other types of coding to identify and keep > track of the person. I think all this is due to the constant pressure > from the world to contain the terror thing. And I would be surprized > if Kasab's name is not there in the database. But certainly, how does > one trust what the authorities or the Pakistani media say about this. > It is certainly possible to beat the system, even by those who manage > the system. See the link below for the official version: > > > http://www.nadra.gov.pk/DesktopModules/top/topmore.aspx?tabID=0&ItemID=57&bID=0&Mid=3026 > > Javed > > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Pawan, > > > > Thank you for your comments. Please allow me to tell you that I am not at > > all, in any way whatsoever even remotely interested in thinking whether > > Kasab was promised virgins in Heaven nor I think I am informed enough to > > speak whether he was a spy or whether Rehman Malik is stupid. > > > > Unfortunately, given my absolute ignorance on rather pertinent issues > raised > > by you, I can neither comment nor engage with you. So Pawan please > forgive > > me, if my post hinted at a possible dialogue on stupidity of Government > > Officials, or uninhibited sexual forays of Islamic terrorists once they > > reach their respective paradise or for that matter the grave and the > > mysterious ways in which spies collaborate with government departments to > > fulfill deep dark agendas. It was totally unintentional. > > > > However, I am deeply interested in the rather more banal issues of > > -identity- and how it is imagined both on a individual level and on the > > scale of a nation state. What is the nature of relationship between forms > of > > identification practice and the discourse of through which the idea of > > identity is clustered. > > > > Kasab's post was sent to reader list in this regard. I wanted to draw > > attention to what I believe is a very important case in Kasab, where we > have > > an individual who is asserting that he is a citizen of a State. The State > is > > refuting that assertion by citing an evidence that he is -in fact- not a > > citizen because his name does not figure in a database. Now Pawan, if we > > look closely at this guy Kasab and the dilemma that he is going through > > right now, then we can perhaps grasp that what we have in front of us is > a > > classic case wherein even if we know that who we are, our assertion can > be > > challenged because our name does not figure in a database. > > > > We do know by what Rehman Malik says that, Kasab's name IS not there in > the > > Pakistani National Database, what we do not know, or will perhaps never > know > > is whether Kasab's name WAS ever there?? > > > > As far as the issue of identity is concerned my heart goes out to Kasab > for > > in the depths of my heart I want him to tell the world that he is > Pakistani, > > that his name is Kasab. That he is a Muslim. In other words I want him to > > tell the world what is his name, his residence, his nationality and his > > religion. In a sense his most primary documented identity. And I want the > > world to beleive in him. Except for the fact that his name do not figure > in > > a database. > > > > I think for all us in India, it is important that we carefully consider > all > > the options before we embark on a digitized identification regime > because, > > Kasab's case is a clear marker of how our earnest assertion about our > > individual identity may collapse if the cusodian of the memory of ones > > identity decide to change its mind. > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > >> Dear Taha , > >> > >> Let us not talk stupid like Rehman malik . It is a fact no country owns > >> terrorist ,,,,,not even spies..... > >> > >> Even if the spy is a regular with any countrys defense/intelligence > >> department.... > >> > >> In thhis case Kasab was anyway a dacoit turn Jihadi who was promised > >> virgins in Heaven.... > >> > >> Pawan > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Taha Mehmood < > 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> "I have already stated on record that Kasab's name is not on the NADRA > >>> records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the record of all > >>> Pakistani nationals." > >>> > >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please follow the full story below. > >>> > >>> Best > >>> > >>> Taha > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kasab-pleads-pak-for-legal-aid-as-custody-extended/81259-3.html > >>> Published on *Wed, Dec 24, 2008 > >>> > >>> **New Delhi:* A desperate Ajmal Kasab - the lone terrorist captured > alive > >>> after the 26/11 terror strike in Mumbai - has once again sought the > help > >>> of > >>> the Pakistan High Commission for a lawyer, but Pakistan is still > refusing > >>> to > >>> accept his nationality. > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, Kasab told the magistrate who was presiding over his > custody > >>> hearing that he wanted to contact the Pakistan High Commission for his > >>> legal > >>> defence. > >>> > >>> This is the second time that Kasab has asked Pakistan for legal aid - > more > >>> than sufficient proof that he is a Pakistan national. The first time > that > >>> he > >>> had done this was when he had written a letter to the Pakistan High > >>> Commission, a few days ago. > >>> > >>> Kasab has also been booked in the case of hijacking a Skoda car near > >>> Girgaum > >>> Chowpatti and fleeing in the same car along with another terrorist and > >>> remanded to police custody till January 6, 2009 by Additional Chief > >>> Metropolitan Magistrate NN Shrimangle on Wednesday. > >>> > >>> In his letter he had claimed that he and the other terrorists who had > been > >>> killed in the attacks were Pakistani and had sought a meeting with the > >>> Pakistan High Commission. However, Islamabad did not pay heed to his > >>> request, saying he was not a Pakistani. > >>> > >>> The letter asked Pakistani officials to claim the body of his fellow > >>> terrorist Ismail Khan's body and give it an Islamic burial. In it, > Kasab > >>> also named Zaki-ur-rehman Lakhvi, believed to be the man who lured him > >>> into > >>> terrorism, Lashkar-e-Toiba chief Hafiz Sayeed and member Mohammad > Kahafa > >>> as > >>> his trainers. > >>> > >>> Pakistan is currently examining the contents of Kasab's letter and is > >>> expected to make a formal announcement on his status on Wednesday. > >>> Meanwhile, Kasab will stay in police custody till January 6. > >>> > >>> Advisor to Pakistan Prime Minister, Rehman Malik has said that the > truth > >>> about Kasab's identity will be out as soon as the letter has been > >>> examined. > >>> > >>> "If you get some accusations, there is always a process of elimination > to > >>> prove something or disapprove something. We have received a letter and > we > >>> are examining it> i have already stated on record that Kasab's name is > not > >>> on the NADRA records. And NADRA is an organisation which keeps the > record > >>> of > >>> all Pakistani nationals. So we are looking into it and whatever the > truth > >>> we'll bring to the notice of public," he said. > >>> > >>> On being asked if he had asked the Interpol chief to tell India to give > >>> evidence, Malik stated, "Why should I ask? I think the Interpol chief's > >>> verdict should be final because he was himself present in India. We > draw > >>> the > >>> attention of the international community to this." > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From sannrach at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 21:26:28 2008 From: sannrach at gmail.com (Sanjeev Peethala) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:26:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] contents of reader-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 96 Response to Message 2 Article Message-ID: <8b162fd30812240756n12226fcem4e4aa0256c438f43@mail.gmail.com> Dear Nivedita, Attached is the article 'He's behind you!': Reflections on Repetition and Predictability in Lemony Snicket's *A Series of Unfortunate Events* from the Journal "Childrens literature in Education". Though I have access to JSTOR as a researcher, my accessibility to PMLA, the Journal of the Modern Language Association of America is limited upto 2002. Maybe you could look up some institution library for the said article. Hope the attached article is of some assistance to your preparing the paper for the childrens literature conference. Thank you. With best regards, Sanjeev On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:05 PM, wrote: > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Indian response to Terror Attack 'appropiate'/'subdued' - > DAWN, Pakistan Poll (Kshmendra Kaul) > 2. Help!! (Niveditha) > 3. "The real enemies" - by Tavleen Singh in Indian Express > (Kshmendra Kaul) > 4. Query on Indo-Pak economic history (Ishwar Sridharan) > 5. Hemant Karkare - despised by some Muslims too, not just by > some Hindus (Kshmendra Kaul) > 6. Re: fwd: inoffensive contemporary indian art - (indersalim) > 7. Re: Query on Indo-Pak economic history (Patrice Riemens) > 8. THE 'K' FACTOR - Irrationality of rational realist > films.. (Aditya Raj Kaul) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:01:21 +0530 > From: Niveditha > Subject: [Reader-list] Help!! > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Message-ID: > <9e3c887f0812230231k7d330f01j93e19709b30bb688 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi, > > I am currently working on a paper for a children's literature > conference for which > I desperately need two papers that I don't have access to!If anyone on this > list > does,could you please email them to me? > > These are the links for the papers: > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/xn1615307xv45h30/ > http://www.mlajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1632/pmla.2007.122.2.502 > > > Thanks! > > Niveditha > > > -- Sanjeev Peethala From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 21:31:37 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:01:37 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240801n7373f8carbf76566aa9304b0c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, Thank you for responding to my mail. You state that:Pakistan has an amazingly developed system of recording data and issuing ID cards for every citizen. And then you add that that if some people are not added then it is bound to happen given the scale of population. I think it is true but for the sake of argument what if, we think about a situation where there is complete or near total saturation of individual identification processes. By that I mean that we are at a stage wherein we have mapped all the possible subjects and their identities and we have created a database. Then what are the possible situations we can encounter- Consider this comment by the incumbent Prime Minister of Britain, Gordon Brown- "I profoundly regret and apologise for the inconvenience caused," He gave this comment in the House of Commons on 21st November 2007. The Occasion being, theft of data containing personal information of 25 Million people. You may read the full story at this below- http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/nov/21/economy.uk or for that matter if we hop across Atlantic we have a situation which is not that different. Consider this report by the Federal Trade Commission of the United States Government. FTC Releases Survey of Identity Theft in U.S. 27.3 Million Victims in Past 5 Years, Billions in Losses for Businesses and Consumers. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/09/idtheft.shtm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Having said that I think on the level of polemic we can debate this issue from various perspectives, the most obvious being that we should have a national identity card. There many people in India who are of firm belief that it is high time that India should have a national identity card. I have no issues with what one believe in. I think every one of us must have a right to what we believe in. However I would certainly like to subject any believe to some form of questioning were it to refer to a policy because as an Indian it involves me too. So, were we to go for a national identity card like Pakistan and convert personal information into digital databases then I would be interested in the whys and why nots of the process. Wouldn't you? Warm regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Taha > Thanks for clarifying in detail about why you sent the message about > Pakistan's ID system NADRA. Before someone else answers your message > and isolates your sentence "my heart goes out to Kasab..." and says: > "see these bloody Muslims, their heart really goes out to Kasab the > terrorist", let me say a couple of sentences about Pakistan's ID > system. > > Someone might respond to your message saying that "what is this > missing of the name in a database you are talking about. Man, it is > Pakistan... the rouge state... does the missing of one name matter in > that state? We in India have millions whose names are missing - how > can you even imagine that Pakistan will have a system by which all > citizens are counted and data-based?" > > Yes this is what I am talking about (since you are interested in ID > systems): Pakistan has an amazingly developed system of recording data > and issuing ID cards for every citizen. While in India, we are > requiring to show our photo IDs for some essential services only now. > In Pakistan, one needs to show their ID for every little job. If you > go to a post office to send a speedpost, they need to see your ID. > They need to see it while purchasing bus and train tickets. And all > this not recently, but since at least 10-15 years. I noticed (in a > trip) that an average Pakistani carries a number of xeroxes of his/her > photo IDs in the pocket as it may be required anywhere. > > Same goes with the passports. Pakistani passports have bio-metric > information and several other types of coding to identify and keep > track of the person. I think all this is due to the constant pressure > from the world to contain the terror thing. And I would be surprized > if Kasab's name is not there in the database. But certainly, how does > one trust what the authorities or the Pakistani media say about this. > It is certainly possible to beat the system, even by those who manage > the system. See the link below for the official version: > > > http://www.nadra.gov.pk/DesktopModules/top/topmore.aspx?tabID=0&ItemID=57&bID=0&Mid=3026 > > Javed > > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 21:33:02 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:03:02 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] contents of reader-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 96 Response to Message 2 Article References: <8b162fd30812240756n12226fcem4e4aa0256c438f43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Please give me some time. if the article is available on jstor I will be able to send you soon sometime. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sanjeev Peethala" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] contents of reader-list Digest, Vol 65,Issue 96 Response to Message 2 Article > Dear Nivedita, > > Attached is the article 'He's behind you!': Reflections on Repetition and > Predictability in Lemony Snicket's *A Series of Unfortunate Events* from > the > Journal "Childrens literature in Education". > > Though I have access to JSTOR as a researcher, my accessibility to PMLA, > the > Journal of the Modern Language Association of America is limited upto > 2002. > Maybe you could look up some institution library for the said article. > > Hope the attached article is of some assistance to your preparing the > paper > for the childrens literature conference. > > Thank you. > > With best regards, > > Sanjeev > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:05 PM, wrote: > >> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to >> reader-list at sarai.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> reader-list-owner at sarai.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Indian response to Terror Attack 'appropiate'/'subdued' - >> DAWN, Pakistan Poll (Kshmendra Kaul) >> 2. Help!! (Niveditha) >> 3. "The real enemies" - by Tavleen Singh in Indian Express >> (Kshmendra Kaul) >> 4. Query on Indo-Pak economic history (Ishwar Sridharan) >> 5. Hemant Karkare - despised by some Muslims too, not just by >> some Hindus (Kshmendra Kaul) >> 6. Re: fwd: inoffensive contemporary indian art - (indersalim) >> 7. Re: Query on Indo-Pak economic history (Patrice Riemens) >> 8. THE 'K' FACTOR - Irrationality of rational realist >> films.. (Aditya Raj Kaul) >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:01:21 +0530 >> From: Niveditha >> Subject: [Reader-list] Help!! >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Message-ID: >> <9e3c887f0812230231k7d330f01j93e19709b30bb688 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi, >> >> I am currently working on a paper for a children's literature >> conference for which >> I desperately need two papers that I don't have access to!If anyone on >> this >> list >> does,could you please email them to me? >> >> These are the links for the papers: >> >> http://www.springerlink.com/content/xn1615307xv45h30/ >> http://www.mlajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1632/pmla.2007.122.2.502 >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> Niveditha >> >> >> > > > -- > Sanjeev Peethala > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 24 21:58:16 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:28:16 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70812240656i596ffe9m472e0e76c54e83cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240656i596ffe9m472e0e76c54e83cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812240828j19ef780dq6186c63257bde612@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, Thank you carrying the conversation forward. Let me state this I am in no way against the introduction of national identity cards as I am in no way against the non-introduction of National Identity cards. I think given the times that we live in, it is but -natural- for us to have a identity document of some sort. The reason I would like to pose some questions to you is because I think insofar as the introduction of national identity cards in India is concerned we have a very curious situation of the almost deafening silence on the side of the discourse contrasted by a cacophony of industrial activity related to manufacture of plastic cards, RFID technology, chips, smart cards and so on. Hence I feel it is high time we in India start thinking and talking about this issue. Hence, You state- I do believe that we in India should create the national ID bank. We may have hiccups but then we need to start. Let us not be deterred by failures in system , it is possible wherever there are humans and technology. We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the 'uncontrolled' infiltration. What I would like to know from you or possibly anyone on this list who is interested in this debate is, 1. Why do we need a national identity card in India in the first place? 2. Why now? 3. What justifies the disbursement of funds to create this national database? What is the opportunity cost of these funds? 4. Where in this world do we have a precedent both in temporal and in spatial terms which shows a positive co-relationship between issuance of identity cards and a decline in infiltration? 5. What is the evidence do we have that in the event of a disbursement of an identity document, we have the requisite capacity for a -just- disbursement? I do not expect you to answer them because I understand that most of these questions relate to work-in-progress, but at the same time I would be interested in knowing your views about them. Warm regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Javed, > > Honestly, i hated to view Mumbai blast as a hindu / muslim issue > ....however I must admit that Fatima let me down. > > It was a covert act by her to create a suspicion. > > Coming back to the Identity card issue , I do believe that we in India > should create the national ID bank. We may have hiccups but then we need to > start. > > Let us not be deterred by failures in system , it is possible wherever > there are humans and technology. > > We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the > 'uncontrolled' inflitration.Look at the kind of inflitration we have in > North East from Bangladesh etc. > > Do we need things to continue in the same way ? > > Pawan > > From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 22:38:46 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:38:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Rajeev Dhavan on anti- Terror laws In-Reply-To: <82d0aeb6-398f-4aa8-b0f7-39f06e373415@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <82d0aeb6-398f-4aa8-b0f7-39f06e373415@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812240908w68d6cd66kfc07365efac6931f@mail.gmail.com> Rajeev Dhavan on anti- Terror laws To: humanrights movement India's Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) The Return of POTA & TADA by Rajeev Dhavan, 19 December 2008 India's attempt to put its own legal house in order is reflected in two Bills — 'The National Investigation Agency (NIA) Act' and the amendments to the 'Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA)'. Home minister P. Chidambaram's Bills bring TADA and POTA back with a bang and innovated a National Investigation Agency (NIA). Hitherto 'policing' was exclusively a 'state subject'. India's CBI could take over investigation and prosecution on (a) court orders or (b) with the consent of the state. The NIA Bill changes that to let the NIA hijack any prosecution or investigation from the state at will. The proposed NIA Bill is constitutionally competent. The Constitution's Union List (I, Entry 8) permits a "Central Bureau of Investigation". Criminal procedure for prosecution is in the concurrent (List III, Entry 2). The NIA will be operationalised only for statutory offences relating to atomic energy, the UAPA, aviation, maritime, navigation, weapons of mass destruction, sedition and such offences, money laundering and counterfeiting. Under POTA and TADA, the massive misuse came from the states to alarm the Supreme Court, now the potential misuse will come from both the states and the Union, which can hijack the case. Political and communal targeting runs through our anti- terrorist legislation. Federalism will also be in partial jeopardy. India is about to create a powerful FBI of its own, whose independence and political vulnerability are neither beyond alarm; nor the new style special courts beyond criticism. No review agency is provided. With these caveats the NIA was long overdue. The UAPA Amendment Bill is dangerous. Our examining principle should be: counterterrorism measures should not facilitate, or have the potential, for state terrorism. This is why the UPA launched a wholly new strategy in 2004. TADA or POTA were thrown out and the ordinary law [Criminal Procedure (Cr.P.C)] was brought back. India's ordinary law is tougher than UK and US anti-terror laws. This time the Union's shopping list is full. First, the POTA favourites of pretrial imprisonment till 180 days, 30 days police custody, denial of bail if a prima facie case exists (which is easy on a well-written FIR) and the blanket denial of bail to foreigners (including, perforce, suspect Bangladeshis) is back (Sections 43A to 43F). So, also, are the adverse inference provisions — if there is recovery of arms, explosives and other substances, suspected to be involved, including finger prints on them. Second, the definition of 'terrorist act' includes not just radioactive and nuclear material, but anything that may threaten India or overawe or kidnap constitutional and other functionaries listed by the government (Section 53). This list is potentially endless. Third, new offences for organising terrorist training camps or recruiting terrorists attract punishment (Section 18A and 18B). There are salutary provisions against raising funds likely to be used for terrorist use (Section 17). All these can be frozen (Section 51A). But safeguards exist except judicial review. Criminalising intent to aid terrorists and terrorist organisations is extended to aid to terrorist gangs (Section 23). Fourth are the magnum Sections 43A to 43F that modify our Criminal Code. We have already noted the pre-trial custody, denial of bail provisions and adverse inference provisions. To these may be added arrest and search and seizure on suspicion authorised by general or special orders by officers designated by the state and Union governments (Section 43A). The wrath of subjective suspicion will override the entire due process of the Criminal Code (Section 43C). All offences mentioned in the new legislation will permit arrest without warrant (Section 43D). There is an obligation to disclose any information which a superintendent of police thinks is relevant. Failure may cost up to three years in jail (Section 43F). Journalists, beware. FIFTH, and finally, comes the big lie that all this is just tweaking the UAPA — a phrase misleadingly used by the Congress spokesman Kapil Sibal. This is not a tweak but a thump. These provisions can terrify the innocent, alleged to have bad thoughts, irreverent words and suspicious behaviour. The station house officer at the police station will be less feared, but superior officers can order reprisals, raids, search and seizure. With POTA and TADA, the process was always the punishment. At risk are the minorities, legal and illegal Muslim migrants, Christians, Vaiko style political activists and the Binayak Sens who honour our social work. There are no safeguards, or review committees. The fact that confessions to police remain inadmissible hardly supports the tweak theory. After months in pre-trial detention under brutal investigation, the police will extract even untruths. The Bill casts a shadow on all of us. It is founded on the principle that everyone is suspicious or a suspect, with no fine distinction between the two. We are creating a suspicious state to empower suspicious officials and citizenry to act suspiciously against any supposed suspect. This Bill goes further than TADA or POTA in its creation of a suspicious state. India must fight terrorism, but the last thing India wants to be is a terrorist anti- terrorist state. The writer is a senior lawyer (courtesy: Mail Today, 19 December 2008) --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "humanrights movement" group. To post to this group, send email to humanrights-movement at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to humanrights-movement+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/humanrights-movement?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- From indersalim at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 23:25:17 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:25:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dec.25th Greetings: CHILDREN OF MOTHER EARTH, COME Message-ID: <47e122a70812240955i58cf3df6oe895c9d0ae5f17be@mail.gmail.com> please click to see a small sequel of images http://childrenofmotherearthcome.blogspot.com/ love to all inder salim -- From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 09:01:06 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:31:06 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] "Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck" References: <1fd66c110812240325k69e2da57h3206c3bce170f8e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am sure it is better to bribe people to make them contest in the elections for a democracy than to shoot them down for contesting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shivam V" To: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: [Reader-list] "Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck" > Mail Today E-Paper: Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck > > This page was sent to you by: mail at shivamvij.com > > November 16, 2008 > Samata men rake up 'IB candidate' muck > > By Parvaiz Bukhari in Srinagar > > SEVEN Samata Party ( SP) candidates in the Jammu and Kashmir elections > accused on Tuesday their party leadership of " luring them with money" > to contest the polls at the behest of " intelligence agencies". Their > statement (MAIL TODAY has recorded it) adds fuel to the recent > controversy that the huge voter turnout in the last six phases of the > seven- tier polls was stagemanaged by intelligence agencies. > > SP has fielded 14 candidates in the state, 13 of them from Kashmir and > one from Jammu ( Vijaypur). > > The seven, who made the allegation, are living in Royal Palace hotel > near Dalgate under tight security provided by the government. > > The SP candidates said their mission was to bring out " committed > voters", but they decided to blow the lid since the money promised to > them was not delivered. > > The SP's state president M. Y. Naikoo approached Wali Mohammad Khan, > who since 1978 was the chief organiser of the Congress Seva Dal in > Kashmir until elections were announced. Naikoo " promised" Khan Rs 5 > lakh to contest from the sensitive Amirakadal segment. > > "He ( Naikoo) told me that half the money would be paid before filing > the nomination and the other half immediately after that. But nothing > has been given so far," Khan said on the eve of the last phase of > polls. > > "Naikoo is absconding and I suspect he is also an IB ( intelligence > bureau) agent, like those who have fielded so many independent > candidates," he alleged. > > The allegations combined with others of direct and indirect coercion > by Army in some areas during the six phases may not explain the record > voter turnout. It is also a reality that people in Kashmir have defied > the separatists' poll boycott call. > > National Conference president Omar Abdullah have indirectly raised > doubts over the number of Independent candidates - 468 in total - in > the polls. " Delhi is dividing people by putting up Independents from > every nook and cranny in Kashmir," he said. > > "I wanted to stand in the election. But when I saw some people, who > for years have been working for IB, jumping into the fray, I took a > step back," said a young politician, corroborating Abdullah's fears. > > Khan is not alone in the confession box. There are three others in his > group - Nazir Ahmed, Mohammad Altaf and Gurmeet Singh - who made > similar damning revelations. But they differ in their approach to deal > with their worries. > > Khan is now worried he too would be " perceived" by his supporters as > an IB agent, which could spell trouble for him in Kashmir. > > The state's chief electoral officer B. R. Sharma said Naikoo should > respond to the allegations. He said the party is not registered in the > state but " the election commission has allowed these candidates the > privilege to use the party symbol". The candidates said " Jitender > Biduri, the SP general secretary, came to the hotel and promised Rs 5 > lakh to each of us in the presence of Naikoo". Biduri denied the > allegations. > > "All of them have joined the party voluntarily," he said. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 10:18:51 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:48:51 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8F082721C317462388ED83D86A835E7A@tara> You are right Taha that the identity can be manipulated by the state to prove or disprove claims. Money gets you everything in the subcontinent. So it is possible to have multiple identities. For all we know, tomorrow Aditya Nigam, Amrish Mishra, Ajiz Barni, or other conspiracy theorists in Indian and Pakistani media, may find Kasab's Indian passport under the seat of a taxi he used before being captured. It takes less than rs2000 to get a fake Indian passport. Congress had an MP from Asam who was actually a fugitive, citizen of Nepal required in Nepal in connection of a murder case. So yes, it is possible to give people multiple identities or leave people without it and multi-purpose identity cards may not help in the matter. I wonder if my suggestion will sound to you too ridiculous to consider. But perhaps we should have duel identities. One issued by one's respective country and the other by a world agency like UN. Such a system might help to determine the identity/nationality of those captured in covert operations. Pakistan today claimed that they have arrested an Indian national in connection with a recent bomb blast in Pakistan. The police of J&K supposedly arrested three Pakistanis a couple of days back. What if the UN had everybody's record in their database so that when such a claim was made, they could prove the veracity of such a claim. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash ; sarai list Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your comment. I totally agree with your views, that people of the subcontinent have a right to have a proof of their existence. I think any statement which asserts that, in a Nation state every legitimate person must have a right to legitimate identity, is based on two underlying assumptions. First being, that the idea of identity is stable and it can be mapped and the second, that the State is a -just- State. That, it will, in the discharge of its duties to accord identity to legitimate citizens will, act in the most benign fashion. This is not to suggest that if a State is not perceived of as -just- then it loses its moral right to give a certificate of citizenship but to caution that if perhaps the case then, any such exercise will be bound to result in a deepening of existing social divisions. Hence, in a situation where we in India are still grappling with gross mismanagement of earlier forms of identity documents, like ration cards, we need to consider seriously, whether we are prepared to deal with yet another exercise to completely digitize personal information of around one billion people. You may like to read a Times of India news report indicative of malaise I have mentioned above- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/rssarticleshow/msid-3208865,prtpage-1.cms Further more, just as it is a matter of great ease, if our personal information is stored in a digital database, which could then easily be manipulated in any form, we must not forget that it is also matter of great ease with which is could be deleted. Hence, if a Name and a number in some National identity database becomes the sole criteria to ascertain and determine the identity and citizenship of a person on legitimate grounds, then we must not be surprised at all in the face of a Kasab like case. I completely empathize with the frustration of the Indian Government. We all know, that Kasab is Pakistani. We all know that his father has said so. Respectable Pakistanis like Asma Jehangir have said so. The Mumbai police has said so. And Kasab himself has said so. Which begs the question that how could we possibly determine whether Kasab is a Pakistani or not, when the official Government position is that his name do not figure in the national database. That no national identification number has been issued in his name. That he does not posses a national citizenship document. If this being the case- then would it be right for us in India to go for a national identity card or perhaps should we try to spend more time thinking about the process through which we can have a more informed debate about the idea of identity first, and then maybe move forward to establish regimes that are involved in the operational or logistical end of the identity discourse. Regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 5:49 AM, taraprakash wrote: Hi Taha and all. The issue of identity card should also be approached from a different angle. Pakistan government has recently come up with the statement that Kasab is not registered as a citizen in the country and that the state did not issue him any identity card. Earlier, CPI(M) refused to accept the fact of many deaths during Nandi Gram and Singur crisis. Since many of those killed were not registered on any official document, it was difficult to prove many deaths. I believe the same happened in Nithari case of cannibalism. Around 10 years back another scandal was brought to the light in UP. Some people had managed to obtain death certificates for their relatives so that these fraudsters could misappropriate their land. Many officially dead people had to go through long court cases to prove that actually they were not dead. Many in Indian sub-continent do not exist officially. I believe it is their right to have a proof of their existence, should such a need arise. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/rmay2002/07052002/r0705200210.html 7th May, 2002 NATIONAL IDENTITY CARDS ------------------------------ A proposal to issue Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) to Indian citizens, including the people residing in the border areas of the country is receiving Government's attention. These cards, apart from providing a credible identification system, may have multifarious uses. The issue of MNICs would involve creation of an identification system for more than one billion citizens, streamlining the existing machinery for the registration of birth and deaths at the grass root level and choices of institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government would finalize its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after making necessary preparations, including the legal backing to the scheme. Issuing National Identity Cards under the provisions of the Citizenship Act, 1955 is one of the options available. The issue of National Identity Cards was discussed and endorsed in the conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security held on 17th November 2001. The information was given in the Lok Sabha by the Minister of State for Home Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao in a written reply today. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 11:14:16 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:14:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812240828j19ef780dq6186c63257bde612@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240656i596ffe9m472e0e76c54e83cf@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240828j19ef780dq6186c63257bde612@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812242144l4564c4f3p14fbe73c87869744@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, The only reason I support the introduction of this card is for security reasons , and at the same time i do agree that the introduction is not fool proof. We have had example in Jammu & Kashmir that an inflitrated Pakistani Citizen managed to even contest elections and we have another example from North East . These two examples whould have been fool proof , but we failed. I also feel once the cards are created , Govt should owe more responsibility towards the citizens in terms of security ,insurance etc. Pawan On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Pawan, > > Thank you carrying the conversation forward. Let me state this I am in no > way against the introduction of national identity cards as I am in no way > against the non-introduction of National Identity cards. > > I think given the times that we live in, it is but -natural- for us to have > a identity document of some sort. > > The reason I would like to pose some questions to you is because I think > insofar as the introduction of national identity cards in India is concerned > we have a very curious situation of the almost deafening silence on the side > of the discourse contrasted by a cacophony of industrial activity related to > manufacture of plastic cards, RFID technology, chips, smart cards and so > on. Hence I feel it is high time we in India start thinking and talking > about this issue. > > Hence, > > > You state- > > I do believe that we in India should create the national ID bank. We may > have hiccups but then we need to start. Let us not be deterred by failures > in system , it is possible wherever there are humans and technology. > We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the > 'uncontrolled' infiltration. > > What I would like to know from you or possibly anyone on this list who is > interested in this debate is, > > 1. Why do we need a national identity card in India in the first place? > 2. Why now? > 3. What justifies the disbursement of funds to create this national > database? What is the opportunity cost of these funds? > 4. Where in this world do we have a precedent both in temporal and in > spatial terms which shows a positive co-relationship between issuance of > identity cards and a decline in infiltration? > 5. What is the evidence do we have that in the event of a disbursement of > an identity document, we have the requisite capacity for a -just- > disbursement? > > I do not expect you to answer them because I understand that most of these > questions relate to work-in-progress, but at the same time I would be > interested in knowing your views about them. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > >> Javed, >> >> Honestly, i hated to view Mumbai blast as a hindu / muslim issue >> ....however I must admit that Fatima let me down. >> >> It was a covert act by her to create a suspicion. >> >> Coming back to the Identity card issue , I do believe that we in India >> should create the national ID bank. We may have hiccups but then we need to >> start. >> >> Let us not be deterred by failures in system , it is possible wherever >> there are humans and technology. >> >> We need the system to build up as somehow we have to control the >> 'uncontrolled' inflitration.Look at the kind of inflitration we have in >> North East from Bangladesh etc. >> >> Do we need things to continue in the same way ? >> >> Pawan >> >> > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 12:11:24 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:41:24 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLA: RTV Talk Show on Minorities, Global Competition, Mobile Phone Network Message-ID: If you understand Bangla, I have a segment on this talk show. I spoke in a rush because we were given a very small on-air slot. Bangladesh Election 2008 "Road to Democracy" RTV Talk Show on Minorities, Global Competition, Mobile Phone Network http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/25/rtv/ Syeed Ahamed and Faruk Wasif's segment on ATN coming next (as soon as I get chance to edit). PS Obviously "torun" was the anchor's own invention. As my friend Eju said, "if you are torun, then my employees are child labor" From anivar at movingrepublic.org Thu Dec 25 15:53:14 2008 From: anivar at movingrepublic.org (Anivar Aravind) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:53:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Christmas for Orissa: send your Greetings today In-Reply-To: <35f96d470812250139o4bd9707fhf7e4cd194fa9ec9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9469ea1b0812250040p596a0e80i8ad4248ec22e2fc2@mail.gmail.com> <35f96d470812250139o4bd9707fhf7e4cd194fa9ec9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35f96d470812250223l3c3ee124j49c04dc635c111b7@mail.gmail.com> CHRISTMAS FOR ORISSA CAMPAIGN *PRAY FOR PEACE, FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, SAVE CHRISTMAS IN ORISSA* http://orissaconcerns.net/content/2008/12/christmas-orissa-send-your-greetings ** *Send a greeting card to the people in power, urging them to act in favour of peace and justice!!!* All you need to do: 1. Forward this mail, putting all email addresses of authorities (pl see appended). 2. Delete the portions which are above and below the dotted lines. 3. Add a line or two of your own message, if you like. 4. Send it. 5. Forward this appeal to your friends. --------------------- [image: Christmas for Orrissa] http://orissaconcerns.net/sites/default/files/Christmas4Orissa.jpg --------------------- *Dear Friends,* The Christmas of 2008, traditionally an occasion for joy and hope, threatens to be a dark and fearful day for the people of Orissa. While the bandh on Christmas Day has been called off by the VHP, the lack of any substantive serious change in the condition of those living in refugee camps and the constant sense of fear of further violence around Christmas remains to be a cause of concern. It was on Christmas Day last year that the attacks, organised by the VHP, Bajrang Dal, RSS and other Hindutva extremist groups, were launched. In renewed violence since late August this year over 60 people have been killed, several women including nuns raped, over 4,400 houses and 151 churches destroyed and more than 18,000 people injured. Even as we write this there are over 50,000 people homeless and living in the most atrocious conditions unable to return to their homes due to fear and lack of state protection. We sincerely appeal to people of all religions in Orissa, the rest of India and indeed all over the world to join the *Christmas for Orissa Campaign*to: · Defeat the politics of hate indulged in by extremist organisations; · Prevent the recurrence of further violence in the state; · Preserve the spirit of Christmas; and · Prevail upon the Indian and Orissa governments to protect the lives and livelihood of innocent citizens. This *Christmas for Orissa Campaign* is part of already ongoing efforts in Orissa and elsewhere with similar objectives. In an effort to make* Peace and Justice in Orissa *the theme of this year's Christmas all over the world, send this Christmas/New Year greeting card (attached) to Indian government officials and VHP/RSS/BJP leaders. Below are some people you could mail Christmas greetings to: Chief Minister (Orissa), Chair - National Human Rights Commission, Chief Justice (High Court) - Dr. Balbir Singh Chauhan, Chief Justice (Supreme Court), Prime Minister - Manmohan Singh, President - Pratibha Patil, L.K. Advani (BJP) - Leader of the Opposition, President (Bharatiya Janata Party) - Rajnath Singh,Vishwa Hindu Parishad (New Delhi) You can cut/paste the email addresses as below to send the greeting - cmo at ori.nic.in, covdnhrc at nic.in, highcour at ori.nic.in, supremecourt at nic.in, manmohan at sansad.nic.in, presidentofindia at rb.nic.in, advanilk at sansad.nic.in, bjpco at bjp.org, jaishriram at vsnl.in Do spread the word. For updates on Orissa you can visit http://blog.orissaconcerns.net All those interested in joining or contributing to the campaign are requested to contact: christmasfororissa at gmail.com and www.orissaconcerns.net --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 25 16:18:58 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:48:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Blood Brothers" (Redrawing borders) Message-ID: <573003.86227.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ralph Peter wrote an article "Blood Brothers - How a better Middle East would look" in Armed Forces Journal (USA) of June '06.   It is claimed as  ".... an exercise that attempts to conceive a fairer, if still imperfect, amendment of national boundaries between the Bosporus and the Indus."   This article came to my attention because of it's being the subject of an article "Erroneous Maps" by Fasi Zaka in The News of 25th Dec 2008.   Apparently the Ralph Peters article has been much discussed / criticised in Pakistan for it being "evidence of the sinister plan for the dismemberment of our country".   The Fasi Zaka article puts gives a fairn and intelligent analysis of and perspective for the Ralph Peters article and I would reccommend that being read first  http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=153695     The Ralph Peters article is at http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899   Kshmendra         From lists at shivamvij.com Thu Dec 25 16:38:09 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:38:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Srinagar: "Bogus voting, fake arrests" Message-ID: <1fd66c110812250308q2bf4c751h8e0daeab102ca81d@mail.gmail.com> Bogus voting, fake arrests Baba Umar Srinagar, Dec 24: http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9312&Itemid=1 Bogus voting and bogus arrests marked the beginning of the final leg of seven-phase assembly polls in Srinagar where 152 candidates were in fray. In Batamaloo, residents said that the mainstream political parties had already anticipated poor turnout owing to which, fake voters were transported in the area. "I saw people coming in Tata Sumo vehicles to cast votes. If they are from this area, what is the need to come in vehicles to reach booths," asked an elderly person near Ziyarat Sharief Batamaloo. He said the polling agents and activists of various parties cast votes multiple times in the area while people, alien to the area, were dropped in dozens to build turnout. In Sutrashahi, where voting was fairly mild till afternoon, residents alleged counterfeiting by agents and party activists. Till 3 pm, out of 1306 votes at least 330 voters had turned to booths who, the residents feared, were bogus. "I know the entire locality is on boycott. It is people brought in vehicles who are casting the ballot," said Muneer, a student. Meanwhile, Muslim League's Mushtaq-ul-Islam called Rising Kashmir from an undisclosed location saying that the residents of Batamaloo scared away many vehicles loaded with fake voters in Diywarwani and Ziyarat Sharief. "Since the area is boycotting polls, people successfully chased away some bogus voters who had come in vehicles from rural areas to make-believe as Batamaloo voters," Islam who is popularly known as Guga sahib said. He said police and CRPF were arresting League's men who as a result had gone underground. Meanwhile, paramilitary CRPF men arrested one Mushtaq Ahmad Matoo of Banpora Batamaloo for unknown reasons from his resdience. Matoo's friend Krishen Dev Singh said that the 45-year-old was at his residence when he was dragged out and bussed into the CRPF vehicle before noon. "He is a J&K Bank employee and father of three. He is innocent and was just preparing to come out to play cricket with his friends," he said. Matoo's 11-year-old twin sons said they tried to chase the CRPF vehicle but couldn't save their father. "We tried to see where they are going to take our father but couldn't compete with the Rakshak vehicle," said Musaib and Munawar. CRPF spokesperson Prabhakar Triparthy said that the detained will be released shortly. "No one will be detained today. After questioning, the forces will release the person," Triparthy said. Eyewitness in Kawdara claimed that police apprehended at least 10 bogus voters who had come in vehicles to sneak into a polling booth to cast votes. "Yes there have been many such incidents in the area and police is investigating. We are also investigating about their original residence too," SHO Safa Kadal, Nissar Ahmad told Rising Kashmir. Reports of mobile voters casting votes also came from all parts of old city including Bemina, Soura, Lal Bazar, Allochi Bagh and other uptown areas. o o o Anti-election demonstrations rock Srinagar 2 photojournalists, cameraman among 33 injured in police, CRPF action From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 25 16:38:32 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 03:08:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Winners: India, Pakistan" (Riyaz Maroor's perspective on 'successful' elections in Kashmir) Message-ID: <538906.19148.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Winners: India, Pakistan"   "People are innocent; identify the real actors behind this historical success"  Riyaz Masroor   How did New Delhi manage a ‘successful’ election in Kashmir? Efforts to answer this question have lead astray many a student of Kashmir conflict. Much of the newspaper space and transmission chunks in TV channels have been consumed to answer why the voters did not honor the boycott call from separatist forces? But we are yet to hear the answer to the question how New Delhi managed a ‘successful’ election in an unfavorable backdrop. The reason is simple. The question was never asked! This is a feeble attempt to point toward some possible answers, if not a perfect reply. We the people   Amidst this loud ‘expert talk’, we had edicts served against our ‘social character’; we earned the funny epithets such as Soda Water and Ragda nation; the queues outside polling booths left most of us fuming, frustrated. However we tried to comfort ourselves by ascribing the failure to Hurriyat Conference leadership; we also tried to hide behind thin veneers of compulsion for Roti, Kapda, Makaan; we shouted at the top of our lungs that the voter was as good an advocate of Azadi as the one who pelted stones. A whole discourse was tossed up and we heard voices explaining the distinction between the movement for Azadi and the needs for local governance.  But then some of us grew even more upset to know these elections had made Caliban out of a common Kashmiri –  appearing in half-fish-half-human form, Caliban is one of the wildest and most abstracted of all Shakespeare’s characters in his famous play, The Tempest. We fought between ourselves over interpretations of our newly evolved ‘character’. Now we thought, “we are human”, now we thought, “NO”, “we are actually fish”. Over further examination, the observers were found lost, caught in shock and awe. A journalist friend recently said he had a call from Karan Thapar, India’s Television celebrity, who had been anticipating humiliation to New Delhi in the elections considering a massive peaceful movement against the Indian presence in J&K. “Kashmiris are Gods because only God can be unpredictable,” Thapar had told him.   Poor Kashmiri! In 1947 he was pitted against the raiders and coerced to shout Humla Awar Hoshiyar, hum Kashmiri hai tayaar; in 1965 he was tortured for harboring the same Humla aawar and in 1989 that Humla aawar had turned his supporter but not without a cost: All Kashmiris began to be perceived as Humla aawars against India. Then followed another phase of social engineering in which Kashmiris were segregated in ‘good’ and ‘bad’ columns. Kuka Parray represented the ‘good Kashmiri’ and Syed Salahuddin represented the ‘bad Kashmiri’. As the militancy waned a different phase followed with the nerve-wracking terrorist strike against US on September 11, 2001. The most clichéd 9/11 syndrome ensued in separatist politics here. In this phase ‘moderate’ replaced the ‘good’ and ‘hardliner’ replaced the ‘bad’ of yesteryears. At the turn of the millennium , the lines blurred between ‘good’ and ‘bad’, between ‘moderate’ and ‘hardliner’ and interestingly between the ‘pro-India’ and ‘anti-India’ camps. Indo-Pak tension eased and Kashmir question sneaked into pro-India camp, coloring its manifesto with lofty promise of Kashmir resolution. Espousers of India’s National Security Agenda were heard mourning over human rights violation with loudmouthed protests over the ‘exploitation of our natural resources by India and Pakistan’. The Ragda-voting mix According to ‘conflict scientists’ (We will soon hear this term) conflicts, especially with ethnic or religious background, are never resolved, they get transformed. We too have been undergoing various phases of ‘conflict transformation’. From November 17 to December 24, 2008, brisk polling, supposedly in favor of Indian rule in Kashmir, was witnessed close on the heels of a most vibrant yet non-violent revolt against Indian rule. Does the conflict transform so quickly? No. Street campaigns in July-August 2008 were, actually, the manifestation of the uncured problem while as the voter-participation was culmination of the latest phase of a gradual conflict transformation that had taken root way back in 2001. We are surprised because Mirwaiz-Sajjad-Malik trio failed to discern the change, or refused to own it. Instead they competed with each other to replace Geelani. When seen in the confined context of the recent Chalo movement, the voter-turnout in these elections would entail wrong conclusions of which the ones against the popular character sound painful and bespeak our ineptitude for understanding even our own situation. Why did we forget thousands of people attending funeral of a militant commander in Pulwama days after they had turned out for voting in throes. External factors The question how New Delhi managed a successful election is much more important than why Kashmiris voted on the sidelines of a resurrected separatist campaign with completely non-violent characteristics. And an accurate answer lies in the external dimension that comprises Pakistan and the Pakistan-backed militant groups. Militants remained conspicuously indifferent to the polling process in Kashmir. Compared to an estimated 850 killings including 75 political workers during the elections in 2002 the exercise in 2008 witnessed almost zero-reaction from militants with no political killings though the number of candidates in these elections was almost threefold. Going by New Delhi’s assertions that Pakistan had been sponsoring militancy in Kashmir, the militant indifference toward polls appears more of an Indo-Pak deal and less of a coincidence. After all why was Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh cocksure that the situation for holding elections was conducive even as the row over the shrine land and the subsequent freedom movement was far from being over. If anything, the Indo-Pak peace process that started on January 6, 2004 with Vajpayee-Musharraf pact has transformed the pro-India politics in Kashmir. The pact triggered a massive process that was aimed at facilitating the consolidation of ‘unipolar’ politics in Kashmir. The former home minister of India and a devout Indian, Mufti Muhammad Syed emerged as the stronger voice of nationalism. Pakistan opened up its political space for both National Conference and Mufti’s PDP. Omar Abdullah visited Pakistan twice, broke bread with Musharraf. Mahbooba Mufti too crossed the line; she enjoyed the state protocol in the form of a joint press conference with Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari. During Musharraf regime even second and middle-rung politicians including Abdul Rahim Rather, Moulana Iftikhar Ansari, Nizamudin Bhat, M Y Tarigami and a whole lot of ‘peace activists’ from India visited Islamabad, Karachi and Lahore. Mufti was so much emboldened by the Pakistani gesture that he erected the posters of Parvez Musharraf alongside Manmohan Singh in Srinagar. All this was happening at a time when the American war in Afghanistan was going awry, and Pakistan was getting entangled with its own set of ‘cross-border’ incursions via Kabul. Militancy in Kashmir was increasingly getting ‘orphaned’ as Musharraf chose to close tap on the ‘bleed India’ policy of Bhutto’s making. Combined together, these developments created a latent mindset amongst the population. This mindset was further strengthened, or laid bare, by the top militant leader Syed Salahuddin’s surprising assertion in which he had almost approved the process of voting. The campaign for the polls had begun well before the fall of 2008 and the politicians including Omar Abdullah and Mahbooba Mufti tried hard to sell their ‘made-in-Pakistan’ image in public rallies while referring to Salahuddin’s statement. Had the terrorists not staged carnage in Mumbai on November 26, 2008, soon after two phases of polls in J&K, observers would have been busy envisaging India’s response to Pakistan’s ‘greatest CBM’ in the form of its tacit facilitation of the election process in the state. Now that the Mumbai tragedy has created hostility this CBM, which was presumably finalized between the national security advisors of both countries just before the elections were announced, is being responded with war talk. Whatever the verdict, moot point in Kashmir context is the elections have concluded ‘successfully’, the people were just a trapped herd. And, this success has two fathers: India and Pakistan. No more malice against the people, for God’s sake! Feedback at \n riyaz.masroora at yahoo.com This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it http://www.risingkashmir.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=9302   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 25 16:59:47 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 03:29:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Boycott call was a mistake" - Hurriyat leader Aga Syed Hassan Message-ID: <800585.4983.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "DAILY KASHMIR IMAGES"   Thursday, December 25, 2008   "Hurriyat boycott thermometer records wrong temperature"   "Aga Hassan says, boycott call was a mistake"   Srinagar: As the final phase of elections came to an end here Wednesday, a senior Hurriyat leader, Aga Syed Hassan said that poll boycott call was a mistake and had been hurriedly made without taking into consideration the day today needs of the people here. Ironically the Hurriyat decided to oppose its own boycott call after nearly 65 per cent voters had chosen to ignore it. Wiser by hindsight the separatist leaders appeared flawed in calculating the difference between political aspirations and exigencies of day today life. Executive member of Mirwaiz led Hurriyat Conference and a prominent Shia leader, Aga Syed Hassan told a local news agency KNS that the call for poll boycott was a step taken in hurry. “Election boycott call was not a wise decision and it was taken in a hurry without having an eye on the repercussions,” KNS quoted Aga Syed as saying. Stressing that separatists leaders were either arrested or put under house arrest and were not allowed to reach out to the people to convince them from staying away from the process, Aga Hassan said: “Having said that, I believe, the boycott call was a step taken in hurry by Hurriyat and the Coordination Committee.” He said that Hurriyat has all along been advocating that elections and broader Kashmir issue should not be mingled together. He further said that people have their issues and problems which should not have been overlooked. “Leaders can get themselves treated in very reputed private hospitals but the ordinary people need better medical facilities here and those were the issues for which they voted,” Aga Hassan said. Aga suggested that Hurriyat and Coordination Committee should do some introspection and try to figure out that why people turned their back on them.     http://dailykashmirimages.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5321:hurriyat-boycott-thermometer-records-wrong-temperature&catid=1:news&Itemid=2     From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 18:09:44 2008 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?WINDOWS-1256?Q?yasir_~=ED=C7_=D3=D1?=) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:39:44 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Top 10 Bush shoe-throwing games on the Web In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0812250438s77c42878ta6a72cade0c8048c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0812250438s77c42878ta6a72cade0c8048c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0812250439x20376708tbecd6be5d77750c6@mail.gmail.com> http://dvice.com/archives/2008/12/top_10_bush_sho.php From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 19:25:57 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 08:55:57 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] A tale of two statements Message-ID: A tale of two statements Neena Vyas What Antulay said might have been ridiculous but what Jaswant Singh said is disastrous for a nation that has taken the pledge to fight terror to its death. - PHOTOS: PTI, N. SRIDHARAN While Antulay's remark provoked a furore, Jaswant Singh's statement has gone unnoticed. It is ironic that while Parliament was virtually held hostage over Union Minority Minister A.R. Antulay's statement suggesting a sinister conspiracy that led to the elimination of former chief of Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad Hemant Karkare, another statement by Bharatiya Janata Party leader Jaswant Singh almost went unnoticed. If, as the BJP said, Mr. Antulay had become a hero in Pakistan for suggesting that there was more to it than what met the eye in the manner in which Karkare died, surely, Mr. Singh's statement justifying the decision to release three hardcore terrorists in exchange for the lives of the passengers aboard the Indian Airlines plane hijacked to Kandahar was quite unbecoming of a leader of a party that has talked non-stop for five years about the need for the Indian state to be "hard on terror." Let us be clear. There is no denying that India is still paying the price for the National Democratic Alliance government's decision to negotiate with the 1999 hijackers and release the terrorists who may well have masterminded some of the most ghastly terror attacks on India since then. The NDA may well claim that it helped to save the lives of 166 passengers on IC-814 from Kathmandu, but can we be sure that many more innocent lives have not been lost as a result of that mistake? It is one thing to make a mistake or be forced to take a wrong decision in trying circumstances. But the statement of Mr. Singh, Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha - on a television channel on December 18 - that releasing the terrorists was "the right decision" and "I will do the same thing, if such a situation arises in the future" can only be seen as an open invitation by him to potential hijackers and hostage-takers. The one right thing that happened during the Mumbai terror attack was that one terrorist was caught alive. Ajmal Amir Iman 'Kasab' is the living proof of a Pakistani hand in the conspiracy that resulted in the terror attack. Mr. Singh has not left it to anyone's imagination what he might do, if in a position of power, in the event of a plane hijack or some hostage situation created by terrorists demanding the release of Ajmal Amir Iman. He has already declared that he would be only too happy to do a repeat performance of 1999: negotiate with the terrorists and then, in order to save innocent lives of hostages, release Ajmal Amir. The party which has not stopped saying "POTA" for the last five years to indicate its support for a tough terror law, should know that many western countries, including the United States and Britain, have a policy of no-negotiation with terrorist hostage-takers. In India, a few years earlier, the United Progressive Alliance government declared a 'no-negotiation with terrorists' policy in a situation of a hijack of an airplane or a hostage crisis. Do the NDA and its leaders L.K. Advani and Jaswant Singh not agree with that policy? Since terrorism is big on the NDA's agenda, the country surely has a right to know. The three terrorists released at the time of the Kandahar hijack - Masood Azhar, Omar Sheikh and Ahmed Zargar - are known to be close to the Taliban. When they were released at Kandahar - they were taken in a special plane accompanied by Mr. Singh who was then India's External Affairs Minister - they were virtually escorted by the Taliban to Pakistan where they were welcomed as heroes. And yet Mr. Singh tells the nation, weeks after the Mumbai trauma, that he was right in releasing the terrorists, and would do so again in similar circumstances. The BJP has made much of the Antulay statement, which, at most, demanded an inquiry into the manner in which the ATS chief and other senior officers were killed. On Tuesday, the BJP was not prepared to listen to the Union Home Minister's statement on the subject, although it had demanded it. The party said it was not satisfied because Mr. Antulay's head had not rolled. While there is no doubt that Mr. Antulay's statement was motivated by politics rather than a genuine concern on how and why three senior ATS officers were shot dead at one go within hours of the start of the 60-hour long terrorist drama that was enacted in Mumbai - after all, as a senior Congressmen from Mumbai he could have easily got the information from the Maharashtra government and "satisfied" himself - what is shocking is that Mr. Singh's remarks amounting to an invitation to terrorists have gone unnoticed. For the last six days since Mr. Singh gave an interview saying that he would repeat Kandahar which was "not a mistake," spokespersons of the BJP have not had the time or the inclination to find out exactly what their senior leader had said. Neither Ravi Shankar Prasad nor Shahnawaz Husain, not even Sushma Swaraj, who is the deputy leader of her party in the Rajya Sabha, knew what he had said. Or, more likely, they feigned ignorance. They were busy keeping tabs on Mr. Antulay's utterances during the day, but had no idea what their own leaders were saying. What Mr. Antulay said may have been ridiculous and only meant to keep himself on the front pages of newspapers and in the headlines of television channels - it has been many years since he received so much media attention - but what Mr. Singh said is disastrous for a nation that has taken the pledge to fight terror to its death. Mr. Singh and the BJP must remember that very ordinary people in Mumbai - the constable who took Ajmal Amir Iman alive, the staff of the two hotels that escorted guests to safety risking their own lives, the announcer at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus who asked passengers to vacate the station without panicking - risked their lives and many died, but none tried to save his own skin or make any compromise with the terrorists. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 01:02:09 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 19:32:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812251105k4c9a759bg125f4eda9526d122@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> <8F082721C317462388ED83D86A835E7A@tara> <65be9bf40812251105k4c9a759bg125f4eda9526d122@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812251132o3706ba53p22eb229181167442@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. I think that your suggestion is interesting. By that I mean it hints at a possibility or perhaps range of possibilities. These possibilities or the possibility, I think, tends to follow a trajectory of thought which is more often than not -prescriptive- in nature. Abstract ideas like nation states are imagined as not as social processes or negotiable entities but are perhaps understood through the most cliched metaphor of that of a -body-. Any idea which challenges the dominant idea or questions it or tries to engage with it is read as a disease afflicting the -body-. Hence our sensibility informs us to look for the cure. There is of course nothing wrong in prescriptive thinking, but i believe that in order to cure a disease we must first have a through understanding of the nature of the disease. I am in no position to agree or disagree whether we must have or we must not have a national identity card. This I believe is the job of the privacy lobby, or the smart card lobby. I am interested in more fundamental issues. These are the issues of individual identity. For instance What is individual identity? What is nature of individual identity? Can the identity of a person be mapped at all? If so, how? or Why is it okay for us to share the most 'inalienable' part of our subjectivity like our fingerprints with mostly corrupt, often inept, state agencies? Even if we have two identity cards as suggested by you, then don't you think that the premises in your argument are rather benign. The only way with which we can begin to think about an identity document issued by an international agency like UN would be when- 1) All the countries of this world are able to conduct a successful census of all the peoples of this world. 2) The data generated with such an exercise is without an error. 3) All the countries of this world agree to share this data with UN (Underlying assumption being that all the countries of this world -TRUST- UN on an equal basis) 4) The UN prints identity cards and distributes them to all the countries of this world. 5) The individual state governments then create a mechanism to dispatch an identity card, issued by the UN to each of the six billion of us. 6) We, the people of this world, get an identity card which has a correct Name, Date of birth, Permanent Residence, etc etc printed on it. Do you really think that having an agency like UN would solve the problem of correct and a legitimate documented individual identity? When we really do not to have a clear idea as to what do we mean by individual identity? IF this being the case then would it be nice to have UN act as the guardian angel of our individual identities or should we try to first generate more discussion or debate and think through these notions before allowing anyone to be the sole custodian of our identities. Warm regards Taha On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 4:48 AM, taraprakash wrote: > >> You are right Taha that the identity can be manipulated by the state to >> prove or disprove claims. Money gets you everything in the subcontinent. So >> it is possible to have multiple identities. For all we know, tomorrow Aditya >> Nigam, Amrish Mishra, Ajiz Barni, or other conspiracy theorists in Indian >> and Pakistani media, may find Kasab's Indian passport under the seat of a >> taxi he used before being captured. It takes less than rs2000 to get a fake >> Indian passport. >> Congress had an MP from Asam who was actually a fugitive, citizen of Nepal >> required in Nepal in connection of a murder case. >> So yes, it is possible to give people multiple identities or leave people >> without it and multi-purpose identity cards may not help in the matter. I >> wonder if my suggestion will sound to you too ridiculous to consider. But >> perhaps we should have duel identities. One issued by one's respective >> country and the other by a world agency like UN. Such a system might help to >> determine the identity/nationality of those captured in covert operations. >> Pakistan today claimed that they have arrested an Indian national in >> connection with a recent bomb blast in Pakistan. The police of J&K >> supposedly arrested three Pakistanis a couple of days back. What if the UN >> had everybody's record in their database so that when such a claim was made, >> they could prove the veracity of such a claim. >> >> Regards >> > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 01:05:57 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 19:35:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is Kasab a Pakistani? In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812251128q315144d7s132129da3714ed01@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812240435t1764560j1d0e3fa4a998c2d6@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240440l7bf151eajedf6ecbf01cd342f@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240553h2de14487o41252e040d745412@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812240656i596ffe9m472e0e76c54e83cf@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812240828j19ef780dq6186c63257bde612@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70812242144l4564c4f3p14fbe73c87869744@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812251128q315144d7s132129da3714ed01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812251135p54465df1yb99fc33af50c8137@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, Thank you for your mail. I think I agree to the larger premise of your argument, that most people in India are sometimes insecure but is a national identity card the only possible solution we have to address this insecurity? If so then can we be absolutely sure that after the introduction of a national identity card, India will never ever have to bear the ills of illegal infiltration? Why and on what basis do you feel that the Government of India will be able to map all the people with the national identity card? When for instance we already have a process in decennial census which was started in 1870's and even after almost a hundred an thirty eight years the officials of the census bureau get perturbed registering the gender of members of the trans-gender community primarily because we have only two categories male and female and there is no box to be ticked for a trans-gender. The point being, that I strongly feel, that we in India must have an informed debate about the introduction of a national identity card before say ten years down the line we realize that this was yet another exercise in futility. Like we seem to have with the ration card, PAN card, Voter Identity card, BPL card etc. Warmly Taha Dear Taha, The only reason I support the introduction of this card is for security reasons , and at the same time i do agree that the introduction is not fool proof. We have had example in Jammu & Kashmir that an inflitrated Pakistani Citizen managed to even contest elections and we have another example from North East . These two examples whould have been fool proof , but we failed. I also feel once the cards are created , Govt should owe more responsibility towards the citizens in terms of security ,insurance etc. Pawan From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 01:40:21 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:10:21 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Citizens against Terror: Top 10 suggestions for Govt Message-ID: <65be9bf40812251210kb28b287t162959a2fcc79120@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Last week the CNN-IBN news channel together with the Hindustan Times news paper, submitted a citizens charter to the union home minister of India. The second suggestion in the charter was: Uniform electronic identity cards for all Please read the story pasted below for more. Best Taha http://ibnlive.in.com/news/citizens-against-terror-top-10-suggestions-for-govt/81306-3.html Published on *Thu, Dec 25, 2008* *New Delhi:* A month after 60 hours of horrific Mumbai siege ended, there is widespread fear and anger amongst the country's citizens. A CNN-IBN and *Hindustan Times* campaign Citizens against Terrorgave voice to that anger and compiled a citizens charter containing all anti-terror recommendations, which is now ready to be presented to the Home Minister. Here's a look at what went into the process of bringing your voice to the country's leadership. Thousands sent in their suggestions to hindustantimes.com and CNN-IBN website IBNLive.com. Hundreds spoke at web kiosks that were set up in all major metros. "You don't need political interference into security agencies deployed at any place," an angry citizen suggested at one of the kiosks. Another said, "We don't want our policemen dying of bullets. They are not even equipped with proper helmets." An independent panel comprising former top cop Kiran Bedi, anti-terror expert Major General Afsir Karim and former Jammu University vice chancellor Amitabh Mattoo chose the most practical and concrete suggestions. The charter comprising the 10 best recommendations will be presented to Home Minister P Chidambaram on Friday. Here is what it suggests: - Better crisis management and emergency response systems - Uniform electronic identity cards for all - Extensive use of technology to fight terror - Fixing accountability for previous lapses - Urgent modernisation and reform of police - Provisions for citizen-driven anti-terror initiatives like widespread survival training programmes - Corporate help to overcome anti-terror resource crunch - Trained citizens' vigilante groups - Citizen-led observation posts for coastal areas - War book for emergency situations "All must keep pressure on the political executive to deliver. Every three or six months, we need to know directly from the Home Minister what has happened," Kiran Bedi says. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 01:43:24 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:13:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-10 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812251213w6f6108b2h8542a8a7006b8784@mail.gmail.com> *http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020927/main4.htm *September 26 2002 *BJP to observe anti-terror day* * Tribune News Service * New Delhi, September 26 The Bharatiya Janata Party today resolved to observe October 1 as anti-terrorism day and suggested issuing multipurpose identity cards and compiling a national citizen register for an effective check on terrorism. The party, which held an emergency meeting of its national office-bearers and national executive here to take stock of the situation after the terrorist attack on the Akshardham temple in Gandhinagar, said these measures might not be foolproof, but would be quite useful in checking cross-border terrorism and infiltration effectively. Briefing newspersons about the meeting, which was attended by Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishan Advani, BJP President M. Venkaiah Naidu said the executive adopted a resolution, saying, "The dastardly attack on the Swaminarain temple in Gujarat is a part of a larger conspiracy to weaken our country, disrupt our social fabric and bring our polity under strain by instigating social tensions. It is a calculated effort to deflect our nation's march away from the path of development. Forces inimical to India have been doing this for a long time now". The resolution said, "This attack was a manifestation of the frustration of the terrorists and their mentors after their designs to disrupt the democratic and popular elections had been defeated by the people of Jammu and Kashmir." Mr Naidu said Mr Advani, who apprised the executive about the attack on the temple complex, had stated, "The battle has been won, but the war (against terrorism) is still on." The meeting appreciated the role played by the security forces, both of the Centre and the state, in limiting the loss of lives, saving the temple structure and liquidating the terrorists. "As this is a testing time, the maturity of the Indian people is also on trial. We need to speak in one voice against this menace of terrorism. We must not allow any special tension to overtake us, since by doing so we will be falling into the trap set for us by the terrorists", the resolution stressed. Asking for the nation to rise above narrow political and partisan considerations, the resolution said there had to be vigilance to frustrate the evil designs of the enemy. The country needed to stand united, speaking in one voice and facing conspiratorial designs to weaken the country, and to expose Pakistan. Mr Naidu said after the executive meeting, he had briefed Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee about the meeting and its decisions. Replying to a question, Mr Naidu also promised to launch a tirade against illegal immigration from Bangladesh into Assam. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 01:46:26 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:16:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-11 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812251216i7753fa9by76c89293028c67ef@mail.gmail.com> * http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2003/raug2003/21082003/r2108200315.html 21st August, 2003* *PARLIAMENTARY CONSULTTIVE COMMITTEE OF MHA DISCUSSES MULTI-PURPOSE NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD PROJECT* ------------------------------ The Parliamentary Consultative Committee attached to the Home Ministry met this morning under the Chairmanship of Deputy Prime Minister, Shri L.K. Advani. The Session exclusively discussed the Multi-purpose National Identity Card Project (MNIC) which is to be launched soon. A pilot project on the scheme has already been taken up in a few selected sub-districts in various districts of 13 States namely Jammu & Kashmir, Gujarat, Uttranchal, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Assam, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Tripura, Goa, Tamil Nadu, Pondicherry and Delhi. The pilot project which was initiated in April, 2003 is likely to be completed in a year's time covering approximately a population of 29 lakhs. Before the in-depth discussion on the MNIC project was taken up, the Registrar General and Census Commissioner, Shri J.K. Banthia made a presentation on the scheme, its objectives, the mandate and the methodology for implementing the scheme. The presentation encompassed the recommendations of the Group of Ministers on reforming the National Security System. The GOM while proposing the introduction of a Multi-purpose National Identity Card for Indian citizens said: "Illegal migration has assumed serious proportions. There should be compulsory registration of citizens and non-citizens living in India. This will facilitate preparation of a national register of citizens. All citizens should be given a Multi-purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) and non-Multi-purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) and non-citizens should be issued identity cards of a different colour and design. This should be introduced initially in the border districts or may be in a 20 Kms border belt and extended to the hinterland progressively. The Central Government should meet the full cost of the identity card scheme". This recommendation was accepted by the Government and immediate steps were taken to launch the pilot project. It was said that the pilot project will not only give an opportunity to acquire efficiency but also help take measures to remove hurdles likely to be faced while the MNIC Project is taken up on a country-wide basis for a population of more than 100 crores. The objective of the project is to prepare a Population Register, a National Register of Indian Citizens, providing a unique National Identity Number to each citizen and also a Multi-purpose Residency Card to non-citizens. The graphic presentation while mentioning the output said the scheme will provide a credible individual identification system and speed up transactions between the individual and the service provider with greater efficiency. The MNIC will also function as a necessary instrument for e-governance. It will be user friendly interface between the citizen and the government and will function as a deterrent for future illegal immigration. Members attending the meeting highly appreciated the steps taken to launch this project. A few members while hailing the scheme, which will go a long way in identifying illegal immigration, raised some area-specific problems in places like the North-East and the Andaman Nicobar Islands. Some Members suggested that the system of enumeration should be insulated from political pressure and problems of religion, caste and creed considerations. A suggestion was also made for female enumerators in areas where the female members of a family hesitate to meet a male visitor/enumerator. The Deputy Prime Minister while assuring the Members for all safeguards for the successful implementation of the project, allayed fears of any influence or pressure to stall the project. Shri L.K. Advani while referring the Chief Minister's Conference in which the matter was discussed said initially there was some hesitation by some States but ultimately all unanimously agreed for launching the MNIC Project. This was also endorsed in the last Conference of Chief Secretaries from States, he added. In reply to some queries the Home Secretary, Shri N. Gopalaswami said for all adult citizens it will be a Photo Identity Card. Members who attended the Consultative Committee Meeting are S/Shri G.M. Banatwalla; M.S. Delkar; Bishnu Pada Ray; Somnath Chatterjee; Shivraj V. Patil; Joyanta Rongpi; Avtar Singh Bhadana; Pawan Kumar Bansal; Ali Mohd. Naik; and Anadicharan Sahu all from Lok Sabha and S/Shri S. Roy Chowdhury; P.C. Alexander; Karan Singh; Suresh Pachouri; and Balbir K. Punj all from Rajya Sabha. The Ministers of State Shri Harin Pathak, Shri I.D. Swami, Swami Chinmayanand, the Home Secretary, Shri N. Gopalaswami and senior officials were present. From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 09:38:02 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 23:08:02 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> <8F082721C317462388ED83D86A835E7A@tara> <65be9bf40812251105k4c9a759bg125f4eda9526d122@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha and all. i find myself not capable of considering this issue from a negative perspective, therefore unfit to carry forward this discussion. All I know is that most of us use some kind of identity proof on day to day basis. I am neither a poet or a philosopher to be able to delve in to various facets of identity. I personally believe that you are given a name by the society and you are given a more or less distinctive facade by the nature. A proof of identity certifies the relationship between the the signifier and the signified. That there are loopholes in the system cannot be the sole reason for rejecting the identity cards. And no they don't have to be private agencies issuing the identity cards. Even in the mecca of privatization, the state identity cards and driving licences are issued by government agencies. The individual states in the United States issue state id cards to those who cannot drive. Otherwise their driving license is the state id. I would think that rather than begging the state several times for passport, ration card, pan card, voters id card etc one card can be issued. India and other countries in the subcontinent are not the best at keeping records but things are changing. They must change if they are not. ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. I think that your suggestion is interesting. By that I mean it hints at a possibility or perhaps range of possibilities. These possibilities or the possibility, I think, tends to follow a trajectory of thought which is more often than not -prescriptive- in nature. Abstract ideas like nation states are imagined as not as social processes or negotiable entities but are perhaps understood through the most cliched metaphor of that of a -body-. Any idea which challenges the dominant idea or questions it or tries to engage with it is read as a disease afflicting the -body-. Hence our sensibility informs us to look for the cure. There is of course nothing wrong in prescriptive thinking, but i believe that in order to cure a disease we must first have a through understanding of the nature of the disease. I am in no position to agree or disagree whether we must have or we must not have a national identity card. This I believe is the job of the privacy lobby, or the smart card lobby. I am interested in more fundamental issues. These are the issues of individual identity. For instance What is individual identity? What is nature of individual identity? Can the identity of a person be mapped at all? If so, how? or Why is it okay for us to share the most 'inalienable' part of our subjectivity like our fingerprints with mostly corrupt, often inept, state agencies? Even if we have two identity cards as suggested by you, then don't you think that the premises in your argument are rather benign. The only way with which we can begin to think about an identity document issued by an international agency like UN would be when- 1) All the countries of this world are able to conduct a successful census of all the peoples of this world. 2) The data generated with such an exercise is without an error. 3) All the countries of this world agree to share this data with UN (Underlying assumption being that all the countries of this world -TRUST- UN on an equal basis) 4) The UN prints identity cards and distributes them to all the countries of this world. 5) The individual state governments then create a mechanism to dispatch an identity card, issued by the UN to each of the six billion of us. 6) We, the people of this world, get an identity card which has a correct Name, Date of birth, Permanent Residence, etc etc printed on it. Do you really think that having an agency like UN would solve the problem of correct and a legitimate documented individual identity? When we really do not to have a clear idea as to what do we mean by individual identity? IF this being the case then would it be nice to have UN act as the guardian angel of our individual identities or should we try to first generate more discussion or debate and think through these notions before allowing anyone to be the sole custodian of our identities. Warm regards Taha On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 4:48 AM, taraprakash wrote: You are right Taha that the identity can be manipulated by the state to prove or disprove claims. Money gets you everything in the subcontinent. So it is possible to have multiple identities. For all we know, tomorrow Aditya Nigam, Amrish Mishra, Ajiz Barni, or other conspiracy theorists in Indian and Pakistani media, may find Kasab's Indian passport under the seat of a taxi he used before being captured. It takes less than rs2000 to get a fake Indian passport. Congress had an MP from Asam who was actually a fugitive, citizen of Nepal required in Nepal in connection of a murder case. So yes, it is possible to give people multiple identities or leave people without it and multi-purpose identity cards may not help in the matter. I wonder if my suggestion will sound to you too ridiculous to consider. But perhaps we should have duel identities. One issued by one's respective country and the other by a world agency like UN. Such a system might help to determine the identity/nationality of those captured in covert operations. Pakistan today claimed that they have arrested an Indian national in connection with a recent bomb blast in Pakistan. The police of J&K supposedly arrested three Pakistanis a couple of days back. What if the UN had everybody's record in their database so that when such a claim was made, they could prove the veracity of such a claim. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash ; sarai list Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your comment. I totally agree with your views, that people of the subcontinent have a right to have a proof of their existence. I think any statement which asserts that, in a Nation state every legitimate person must have a right to legitimate identity, is based on two underlying assumptions. First being, that the idea of identity is stable and it can be mapped and the second, that the State is a -just- State. That, it will, in the discharge of its duties to accord identity to legitimate citizens will, act in the most benign fashion. This is not to suggest that if a State is not perceived of as -just- then it loses its moral right to give a certificate of citizenship but to caution that if perhaps the case then, any such exercise will be bound to result in a deepening of existing social divisions. Hence, in a situation where we in India are still grappling with gross mismanagement of earlier forms of identity documents, like ration cards, we need to consider seriously, whether we are prepared to deal with yet another exercise to completely digitize personal information of around one billion people. You may like to read a Times of India news report indicative of malaise I have mentioned above- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/rssarticleshow/msid-3208865,prtpage-1.cms Further more, just as it is a matter of great ease, if our personal information is stored in a digital database, which could then easily be manipulated in any form, we must not forget that it is also matter of great ease with which is could be deleted. Hence, if a Name and a number in some National identity database becomes the sole criteria to ascertain and determine the identity and citizenship of a person on legitimate grounds, then we must not be surprised at all in the face of a Kasab like case. I completely empathize with the frustration of the Indian Government. We all know, that Kasab is Pakistani. We all know that his father has said so. Respectable Pakistanis like Asma Jehangir have said so. The Mumbai police has said so. And Kasab himself has said so. Which begs the question that how could we possibly determine whether Kasab is a Pakistani or not, when the official Government position is that his name do not figure in the national database. That no national identification number has been issued in his name. That he does not posses a national citizenship document. If this being the case- then would it be right for us in India to go for a national identity card or perhaps should we try to spend more time thinking about the process through which we can have a more informed debate about the idea of identity first, and then maybe move forward to establish regimes that are involved in the operational or logistical end of the identity discourse. Regards Taha On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 5:49 AM, taraprakash wrote: Hi Taha and all. The issue of identity card should also be approached from a different angle. Pakistan government has recently come up with the statement that Kasab is not registered as a citizen in the country and that the state did not issue him any identity card. Earlier, CPI(M) refused to accept the fact of many deaths during Nandi Gram and Singur crisis. Since many of those killed were not registered on any official document, it was difficult to prove many deaths. I believe the same happened in Nithari case of cannibalism. Around 10 years back another scandal was brought to the light in UP. Some people had managed to obtain death certificates for their relatives so that these fraudsters could misappropriate their land. Many officially dead people had to go through long court cases to prove that actually they were not dead. Many in Indian sub-continent do not exist officially. I believe it is their right to have a proof of their existence, should such a need arise. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "sarai list" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2002/rmay2002/07052002/r0705200210.html 7th May, 2002 NATIONAL IDENTITY CARDS ------------------------------ A proposal to issue Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) to Indian citizens, including the people residing in the border areas of the country is receiving Government's attention. These cards, apart from providing a credible identification system, may have multifarious uses. The issue of MNICs would involve creation of an identification system for more than one billion citizens, streamlining the existing machinery for the registration of birth and deaths at the grass root level and choices of institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government would finalize its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after making necessary preparations, including the legal backing to the scheme. Issuing National Identity Cards under the provisions of the Citizenship Act, 1955 is one of the options available. The issue of National Identity Cards was discussed and endorsed in the conference of Chief Ministers on Internal Security held on 17th November 2001. The information was given in the Lok Sabha by the Minister of State for Home Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao in a written reply today. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 09:51:19 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 23:21:19 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Democracy triumphs Message-ID: Democracy triumphs "We have taken a risk," Chief Election Commissioner N. Gopalaswami said in October when he announced the decision to hold elections to the Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly. The 'risk' taken by the Election Commission and the political parties in the fray has paid off handsomely. The people of the State decisively dispelled fears, voiced by an assortment of political and professional naysayers, that the elections would be characterised by poor participation and murderous levels of violence. On the first count, voter turnout in the 87 Assembly constituencies rose dramatically from 43 per cent in 2002 to around 62 per cent - slightly higher than the national average, which hovers around 60 per cent. Without dispute, the most heartening signal came from the Kashmir Valley, where voter turnout was 55 per cent compared with 29.5 per cent in 2002. Even in Srinagar, the heartland of J&K's Islamist-led secessionist movement, voter turnout quadrupled from a pathetic 5.06 per cent in 2002 to 21 per cent in 2008. As for the second count, 63 people were killed and 84 injured in 114 incidents of terrorist violence in 2002. This time there were 21 incidents of violence during the campaign period - not all of them directly election-related - resulting in five fatalities. While the 1996 elections were marred by allegations that Indian troops had coerced voters to exercise their franchise, and the 2002 elections saw jihadist groups terrorise large sections of the electorate, there were no serious complaints this time. Read against the ugly, communally charged violence that tore into J&K's social fabric this summer - and led to the collapse of the Congress-People's Democratic Party coalition government - these results are all the more remarkable. Many in and outside the State believed the rioting provoked by the grant of land-use rights to the Shri Amarnath-ji Shrine Board ruled out elections for the conceivable future. Indeed not a few influential voices, claiming that the violence reflected a popular rejection of the idea of India, threw their weight behind calls for Kashmiri independence. In the event, the people of J&K have left no doubt that they see in India's democracy, however imperfect, the best means to address the multiple problems they face. From the outset, this newspaper has editorially argued that free and fair elections would do more to defuse the crisis than the regrettable practice of seeking backdoor deals with forces claiming to represent the State's people. India's exemplary Election Commission, Governor N.N. Vohra, National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan, the State government's officials and, above all, the people of Jammu and Kashmir deserve unreserved applause for enabling democracy to triumph amidst the most difficult circumstances imaginable. When a new Chief Minister takes office in the New Year, he or she must move rapidly to deliver clear-minded, honest governance - thus freeing the State from the politics of competitive chauvinism that led it to the edge of the abyss this summer. From deetiray at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 12:55:38 2008 From: deetiray at gmail.com (Deeti Ray) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:55:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dec.25th Greetings: CHILDREN OF MOTHER EARTH, COME In-Reply-To: <47e122a70812240955i58cf3df6oe895c9d0ae5f17be@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70812240955i58cf3df6oe895c9d0ae5f17be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2fe904c20812252325x57aaae01ra52f0de125246d0d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sir/Madam, Can you kindly deregister my name from the list. Regards, Deeti On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:25 PM, indersalim wrote: > please click to see a small sequel of images > > http://childrenofmotherearthcome.blogspot.com/ > > > love to all > > inder salim > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Deeti From rama.sangye at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 15:39:19 2008 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:39:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" Message-ID: <6ade4a8f0812260209q51c405cal39484339bcce8afd@mail.gmail.com> Election Commission wants Electronic Voting Machine options to include "none of the above". See: http://cuckooscall.blogspot.com/2008/12/vote-none-of-above.html From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 26 16:02:01 2008 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:32:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Reader-list] Jaromil: RIP Harold Pinter Message-ID: <17907.92.130.219.189.1230287521.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> bwo Bricolabs list (http://www.bricolabs.net) re all, best wishes for your holydays, with some sad news Harold Pinter died, yesterday. last time i listened to him, we were in London's Hyde park at the Peace march in 2003 protesting against a war that started anyway, in the name of democracy. millions in the streets of all the world marching to shout NO MORE WAR! WE'LL DO WITHOUT THE OIL! but no. our governments joined the war anyway. our soldiers are out there far from their families, and today is Christmas, and Harold Pinter is dead. and i remember clearly now his cry for peace. i feel how little sense our present has in Europe. in the Netherlands they don't even know why the state joined the war in Afghanistan, they are still trying to understand under which pressure the militars and the government actually did join, who signed the papers... Harold Pinter was a great man. He had the guts to say things as they are, to face babylon with its own crimes and hypocrisy, while his own talent and integrity are recognised worldwide, by a Nobel Prize and much more than that. as of today, after a short time this list exists, there are many influential people subscribed, reading our discussions and contributing. again my best wishes to all of you, my gratitude for what we've shared so far and finally now my request to take Pinter as an example, for an important man that had lots of courage and could speak to be understood by many. he was not an elitarist even if his talent made him part of an intellectual elite, and he had never a doubt to say things, even if horrible to be said. he admitedly could make mistakes, but i believe most things he did were right, amazingly enough he was right to the point on things people didn't dare to be. let's all spend a few hours reading his words resting in our biblioteques please. lets meditate how many compromises are we doing in the things we aren't saying, in the moderated comfort we are all swimming in, with the privilege of our brains and what we can understand of the world and what we prefer to not say, for our own interest. how much is worth a single life, the life of many people, the life of a man who dares like Harold Pinter did. below some original Pinter's quotes that will surely be deleted by revisionists: he has called the President of the United States, George W. Bush, a "mass murderer" and the (then) Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Tony Blair, both "mass-murdering" and a "deluded idiot" and has described them, along with past U.S. officials, as "war criminals." He has also compared the Bush administration ("a bunch of criminal lunatics") with Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany, saying that, under Bush, the United States ("a monster out of control") strives to attain "world domination" through "Full spectrum dominance". Pinter characterized Blair's Great Britain as "pathetic and supine," a "bleating little lamb tagging behind [the United States] on a lead." According to Pinter, Blair was participating in "an act of premeditated mass murder" instigated on behalf of "the American people," who, Pinter notes, increasingly protest "their government's actions" (Public reading from War, as qtd. by Chrisafis and Tilden) Pinter published his remarks to the mass peace protest demonstration held on 15 February 2003, in London, on his website: "The United States is a monster out of control. Unless we challenge it with absolute determination American barbarism will destroy the world. The country is run by a bunch of criminal lunatics, with Blair as their hired Christian thug. The planned attack on Iraq is an act of premeditated mass murder" ("Speech at Hyde Park"). Those remarks anticipate his 2005 Nobel Lecture, "Art, Truth, & Politics", in which he observes: "Many thousands, if not millions, of people in the United States itself are demonstrably sickened, shamed and angered by their government's actions, but as things stand they are not a coherent political force yet. But the anxiety, uncertainty and fear which we can see growing daily in the United States is unlikely to diminish". where he had foreseen Obama campaign, for a government that now owes to Pinter's life all the coherence that it takes to finally make a real change. furthermore, speaking to Europe and Latin America: Pinter exhorted the mostly European audience "to resist the power of the United States," stating, "I'd like to see Europe echo the example of Latin America in withstanding the economic and political intimidation of the United States. This is a serious responsibility for Europe and all of its citizens" (Qtd. in Anderson and Billington, Harold Pinter 428). and i must confess this last quote reads so sad considering what Europe really is, probably that's the bigger mistake he has ever made in his discourse. rest in peace, Harold Pinter. during these holy days i'm spending a big deal of time networking and gathering info on the Coltan and Blood issue, a panel we'll be running at next Transmediale, coming january. I wish to dedicate all this effort to Harold Pinter today, we shall do all our best to continue, to continue saying what cannot be told, right here, in the belly of the monster. i'm reading things that cannot be said so easily, thinking of him now gives all the strenght needed to continue. rest in peace, Harold Pinter. - -- jaromil, dyne.org developer, http://jaromil.dyne.org _______________________________________________ read our blogs http://planet.bricolabs.net write our wiki http://wiki.bricolabs.net From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 18:55:45 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:25:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" In-Reply-To: <6ade4a8f0812260209q51c405cal39484339bcce8afd@mail.gmail.com> References: <6ade4a8f0812260209q51c405cal39484339bcce8afd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812260525s69747e71o9706be5ad0d7cec4@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, It seems that there is no such rule as mentioned. According to the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961. Statutory Rules and Order section 49-O reads as- 49-O. Elector deciding not to vote.-If an elector, after his electoral roll number has been duly entered in the register of voters in Form-17A and has put his signature or thumb impression thereon as required under sub-rule (1) of rule 49L, decided not to record his vote, a remark to this effect shall be made against the said entry in Form 17A by the presiding officer and the signature or thumb impression of the elector shall be obtained against such remark. http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/cer1.htm There is no mention of -none of the above-. Furthermore a wiki entry on Section 49-O, cautions about a -disqualification hoax- floating on the net. Please follow the url- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-O#Text_of_Rule_49-O Best Taha On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:09 AM, V Ramaswamy wrote: > Election Commission wants Electronic Voting Machine options to include > "none > of the above". > > See: http://cuckooscall.blogspot.com/2008/12/vote-none-of-above.html > ______________________________ ___________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ghosh.ranu at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 00:34:22 2008 From: ghosh.ranu at gmail.com (ranu ghosh) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:34:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shambhu's Eviction Message-ID: <80ea5720812251104k2898e88cmf16dc15e025613bb@mail.gmail.com> SHAMBHU'S FAMILY FORCIBLY OUSTED FROM THEIR RESIDENCE INSIDE THE SOUTH CITY PREMISES Very few people know that Shambhu Prasad Singh, an erstwhile skilled worker of Jay Engineering Works, has been clinging on to his quarter no: 4/11 inside the premises of South City, for more than three years. He had refused to accept the meager compensation doled out by his employers and had filed a case against them to demand an appropriate compensation package. The court had given him stay order and he, along with his family, continued to stay on in his humble tenement amidst the growing towers. It was a prolonged battle of nerves for Shambhu, where he had to brave threats from the South City authorities, apathy of the legal system and work hard to sustain the legal battle. On the 21st of December he had a court hearing, where the judge said that the final verdict would be given on the 6th of January. All indications pointed towards Shambhu winning the case. On the 24th of December at 8.30pm, a group of about 10 women and 4 men, their faces covered with black cloth, stormed in to Shambhu's quarter. Shambhu's sister in law and her 10 years old son were alone in the house. The men and women gagged the woman and the child, tied them up and locked them in a neighbouring flat, while they looted all that they could lay their hands on – all the clothes, 15,000 Rupees and most importantly all the court papers. Then they threatened to give a sedative injection to the child, which Shambhu's sister in law protested vehemently and promised not to shout and raise a ruccus. They were forcibly taken out of the South City premises and abandoned just outside the gate with no belongings except the clothes they were wearing, the child barefoot and shivering with cold. Both Shambhu and his brother arrived in due time and found that the staircase to their quarter was already demolished. They went to Jadavpur Thana to file an FIR. The FIR was lodged the next morning. Meanwhile, residents of nearby buildings have given shelter to Shambhu;s family. They have been given spare clothes and food to eat. The local councillor has come and looked into the matter. Shambhu is bracing himself for one more battle. He needs you beside him to give him courage and show him the way. We request you to congregate at the South City gate at 4pm on the 26th of December to express your solidarity with Shambhu. From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 19:18:31 2008 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:18:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fishermen, Kerala's coast guard Message-ID: <3457ce860812260548o235f7f55tcad8f50204e3b205@mail.gmail.com> Fishermen, Kerala's coast guard CITHARA PAUL New Delhi, Dec. 25: The Kerala government has sought the assistance of fishermen for surveillance along the Kerala coastline to prevent Mumbai-style incursions from the sea. The home and fisheries departments have jointly mooted a proposal to collaborate with the fishing community, saying the "sons of the sea" would be the best way to secure the 610km stretch along the Arabian Sea. According to the proposal, certain fishermen in each village will be instructed to inform police of any suspicious activities in the sea or on the coast. The police, along with the coast guard, the navy and marine police, will act on the information. The selected fishermen will be given basic physical training and provided walkie-talkies and other communication equipment. The plan has been placed before various fishermen organisations and the modalities will be finalised at a meeting with them on Monday. After the Mumbai attack, some fishermen in the city had complained that they had alerted the police but no action was taken. "The coastal border is as vital as the land border, if not more, and alert fisherfolk could be of great assistance to the security forces. Nobody knows the sea and its activities better than the fishermen," said home minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan. The government plans to issue smart cards to fishermen for their identification. It is also working on identification marks for boats and canoes operating from the Kerala coast so that they can be easily distinguished from other vessels. Registration of boats has already been made compulsory in the state. T. Peter, the national secretary of the National Fishworkers Forum, said: "We are only too willing to co-operate with the security agencies." http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081226/jsp/nation/story_10303788.jsp From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 20:58:38 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:28:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> <8F082721C317462388ED83D86A835E7A@tara> <65be9bf40812251105k4c9a759bg125f4eda9526d122@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812260728x4c8a911cx2ac4f74fbf9a6b78@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. Let me begin by saying that I respect your perspective. If you think and feel that we need identity cards on a day to day basis then I think you are rightfully entitled to that opinion. I think you rightly mentioned that 'identity certifies the relationship between the the signifier and the signified' however I feel slightly uncomfortable with all assertions which suggest that we must do things because somebody else have done. Why? I ask. Even in America social security numbers and driving licenses were originally just that- social security numbers and driving licenses. It took years before the government of US started using these certificates as identity cards. In the UK national identity cards were introduced during the Second World War but the Government had to let go of them because of immense public pressure. The people of US and UK are still not convinced about the durability of a national identity card. The primary reason being that it seems that the people of these countries still share a healthy skeptical relationship with their Governments. Don't you think that any democracy should foster skepticism and questioning. Further more, even in these highly advanced super modern societies the State finds itself incapable of ensuring the safety of the data. Please read the story below for more. (The £5.4 billion national identity card plan is being postponed... following high-profile data breaches from various government departments. http://www.itpro.co.uk/159060/conservatives-claim-id-card-delay) In America, 'the mecca of privatization' according to you, although the REAL ID scheme is passed by the Senate, many in that country feel that the scheme is a REAL 'mess'. Please read the story below for more- (Why the 'Real ID' Act is a real mess- http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html) Given the tone and tenor of Obama's rhetoric I for one will not be surprised at all if the new administration decides to reconsider the Real ID act scheme. I think that we in India must not hesitate before asking basic, fundamental questions about identity, because if you just look around all the burning issues in India today seem to be clustered around notions of identity. At the socio-political level it is articulated in terms of communal and religious identity, (you know Hindu v/s Muslim v/s Christian etc. etc ) or at socio- economic level it often appears in the form of contest or negotiation (for instance the Gujjar Issue or the recent un-rest in Maharastra). One wonders how the National Identity card scheme will effcet all these issues? or For that matter, in what ways will a condensed identity of an Indian Citizen will play itself out in the public domain, in years to come. The question is not whether we must go for an identity card or not, because if have an identity card then I will too have one in addition to a voter ID card, a driving license, a PAN card, a ration card and a Passport that I already have, the question is Why we must have a identity card?or What justifies the transfer of what many believe to be 27,000 crore rupees of public money to just carry out the survey, verify each and every one of us, print and distribute cards. The cost of maintaince is additional to this bill. or What are the ways in which the data so gathered by such an exercise will be used? or What is the mechanism with which this data will be accessed? Who will access this data to do what? What sort of policies will emerge from this data? or Will the survey, verification and distribution be just? Warm Regards Taha On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 4:08 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Dear Taha and all. i find myself not capable of considering this issue from > a negative perspective, therefore unfit to carry forward this discussion. > All I know is that most of us use some kind of identity proof on day to day > basis. I am neither a poet or a philosopher to be able to delve in to > various facets of identity. I personally believe that you are given a name > by the society and you are given a more or less distinctive facade by the > nature. A proof of identity certifies the relationship between the the > signifier and the signified. That there are loopholes in the system cannot > be the sole reason for rejecting the identity cards. And no they don't have > to be private agencies issuing the identity cards. Even in the mecca of > privatization, the state identity cards and driving licences are issued by > government agencies. The individual states in the United States issue state > id cards to those who cannot drive. Otherwise their driving license is the > state id. I would think that rather than begging the state several times for > passport, ration card, pan card, voters id card etc one card can be issued. > India and other countries in the subcontinent are not the best at keeping > records but things are changing. They must change if they are not. > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 21:05:08 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:35:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-12 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812260735x1b54f344k7425908939e21c11@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2003/10/18/stories/2003101803820500.htm Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 The Hindu * *Campaign to issue birth certificates By Our Staff Reporter BANGALORE, Oct. 17. A national campaign to issue birth certificates of all children under the age of 10 years will be taken up, J.K. Banthia, Registrar General and Census Commissioner, has said. Addressing presspersons here on Thursday, Mr. Banthia said the first phase of the programme would be launched on November 14 (Children's Day) and would continue till November 20. It would be commemorated as the Child Rights Week. Efforts would be made to clear applications for birth certificates pending since January 1, 1994, and issue birth certificates immediately after registration. Mr. Banthia said that in the first phase of the campaign, it was proposed to prepare birth certificates in respect of births registered since January 1, 1994, if the children were residing in the place of birth. In the second phase, where births had been registered but the children had shifted from the original place of residence, the present residence would be ascertained and arrangements made to issue birth certificates through the registrar concerned. In the third phase, issuance of certificates to children whose births had not been registered would be taken up, Mr. Banthia said. A data dissemination unit with library facility was inaugurated at the Census Directorate, Kendriya Sadan, Koramangala, on Friday. National ID cards "Multi-purpose national identity cards", which will help citizens establish their identity for services at government offices, are likely to be issued. The Registrar General and Census Commissioner of India, J.K. Banthia, said here that a pilot project to review the feasibility of national ID cards had been launched in 13 States chosen on the basis of their proximity to international borders and the high rate of birth registrations. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 21:08:56 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:38:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-13 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812260738w5d190817i23d785f343295130@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1031212/asp/frontpage/story_2671300.asp The Telegraph, Calcutta Friday, December 12, 2003 Meghalaya mulls pass for 'outsiders' RAJEEV BHATTACHARYYA New Delhi, Dec. 11: Meghalaya is planning to make work permits mandatory for "outsiders" employed in the state in a bid to prevent them from settling there. Chief minister D.D. Lapang, who is in the capital, said he had spoken to Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and his deputy L.K. Advani about the need to "keep track of outsiders employed in the hill state" and received a positive response. "We are hopeful of our demand being met. Ours is a border state and measures should be taken to prevent ethnic disturbances," he said. The chief minister, however, said the proposed scheme would apply only to Indian citizens. "We cannot afford to be sympathetic to foreign citizens. A drive is on to detect and deport them," Lapang added. According to official records, 10,571 Bangladeshi migrants were deported from Meghalaya in the past three years. Though the state has long been making noises about the influx of people from different parts of the country, this is the first time that it is lobbying with Delhi for the introduction of a work-permit system. Sources said the move could prompt the other states of the Northeast to follow suit. Assam, which witnessed a backlash against Biharis recently, is leading the campaign for reservation of railway and central government jobs in the region for local candidates. Lapang said Meghalaya should be included in the pilot project of the multipurpose national identity card scheme. He submitted a memorandum on this to the deputy Prime Minister, saying the state's proximity to Bangladesh necessitated such a step. "It is learnt that the government of India has taken up a pilot project of the national identity card scheme covering some districts of a few states. However, Meghalaya, which has 425-km-long border with Bangladesh, has not been included in the pilot project," the chief minister said. Hindi-speaking people account for an estimated 10 per cent of Meghalaya's population of 2.3 million. Most of them are employed as daily wage earners in Shillong, Tura and in the coal mines of the Jaintia Hills, the West Khasi Hills and the South Garo Hills. A report compiled by the Group of Ministers in 2001 suggested that all citizens be issued identical identity cards and non-citizens with cards of a different colour. It said the project should be launched first in the border areas and later extended to other places. The scheme was endorsed at two conferences of chief ministers. Lapang said his government would continue to pressure Delhi to implement the scheme. "We cannot afford to allow outsiders to outnumber the indigenous population or let a situation arise when we will be totally helpless." During his meeting with Vajpayee, Lapang stressed the need to complete the border-fencing project soon and transfer the disputed blocks I and II of Assam's Karbi Anglong district to his state. A senior official said the constitutional safeguards for the indigenous people of tribal states such as Meghalaya were inadequate to stem the influx. "Migrants cannot purchase land in Meghalaya, but they stay put even without possessing immovable assets," he pointed out. Like the other northeastern states, Meghalaya does not have enough skilled labour of its own. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Dec 26 21:11:56 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:41:56 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-14 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812260741t2b8b103dy8d1bafb40effb3e9@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=33653595 The Times of India Steps to be taken to deport Pakistanis: Advani 7 Jan 2003 NEW DELHI: Declaring a crackdown on 11,500 Pakistanis and 15 million Bangladeshis illegally staying in India, Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani on Tuesday directed state governments to launch "special drives" to detect and deport them as they posed a serious threat to national security. "11,500 Pakistanis have come into the country with regular papers and passports but have overstayed. There is no reason why our states be soft on them," he told reporters after inaugurating a day-long conference of state chief secretaries and directors general of police here. "Immediate steps should be taken to identify them, locate them and throw them out. They (States) should launch special drives to detect and deport these foreigners," Advani said pointing out that powers of the Central government to detect and deport illegally residing foreign nationals have been delegated to States and Union territories. Voicing concern over the "serious problem" of illegal immigration from Bangladesh, he said, "This problem also needs to be tackled firmly by all state governments". He also asked the police top brass to present figures of how many illegally overstaying Pakistanis were traced last year. Observing that the Centre is seriously considering preparing a National Register of Indian Citizens and issuing to them Multi-purpose National Identity Cards (MNICs), Advani said these would provide a credible individual identification system and also act as a deterrent for future illegal immigration. Advani, who also holds the home portfolio, allayed fears from certains quarters about the practicability of issuing such cards and said "with advanced technology that we have, we can successfully implement this". Referring to a recent conference on registration of births and deaths, he expressed dismay that many states had no correct figures on demographic changes. On Pakistan-sponsored cross-border terrorism, Advani said Islamabad's main intention was not to get Jammu and Kashmir but destabilise India. "Secularism and democracy have taken roots in India and this has become an eyesore for our western neighbour which feels that it cannot live together and alongside with such a system," he said. Observing that Pakistan launched the proxy war after having been defeated in direct wars with India, Advani said, Islamabad "will not succeed in its attempt to destabilise India" Asserting that every effort should be made to defeat and eliminate terrorists, the Deputy Prime Minister said that focus should also be on those people who functioned within the country and made it vulnerable to terrorist designs. Recalling that India has formed joint working groups with several countries to combat terrorism, he said, "No country however big and powerful it may be can feel safe from terrorist activities. The September 11 attacks on the US has proved this. All countries should join hands to fight the menace". From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 26 21:22:10 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 07:52:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812260525s69747e71o9706be5ad0d7cec4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <354279.25081.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   It is a matter of interpretation. The Rule does exist in a varied form. What is being spoken about is incorporating it into the Electronic Voting Machine system.    You have yourself quoted Rule 49-O of the 'Manual of Election Law' which is a part of "The Conduct of Election Rules, 1961". This provides for the elector 'not to record his vote'  through a specified process that physically RECORDS the elector's decision of "not to record his vote'. It has no secrecy.   This would mean that the elector is refusing to cast his/her vote in favour of any of the contesting candidates. This is therefore an available Legal provision of what can be interpreted as "none of those contesting" or "none of the above". But it has no secrecy   The point being made and a very valid point is that the elector who does not want to vote in favour of any of the contesting candidates might want to  keep 'secret' his/her decision of "not to record his vote" because of various anticipated repercussions / pressures since all the polling agents and polling staff become aware of that decision.   Yet, in the "Manual Voting" system, the elector can make sure that his/her vote is invalid by various means such as 'not marking' or 'marking all'.   In the case of Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) that confidentiality of  "not to record his vote" can in no way be ensured since the options available on the EVM are for casting vote only in favour of one person. Hence the reported Election Commission proposal of "none of the above" option. It is a good move.    The "disqualification" by "negative vote" is indeed a hoax. There is no such provision.   The "none of the above" provision a part of "Proposals for Electoral Reforms" forwarded by  Chief Election Commissioner T S Krishna Murthy to PM Singh in July 2004, there is a proposal (No. 7) for amending the "Rule 49O". The Election Commission Website says:   QUOTE "NEGATIVE / NEUTRAL VOTING The Commission has received proposals from a very large number of individuals and organizations that there should be a provision enabling a voter to reject all the candidates in the constituency if he does not find them suitable. ....... Although, Rule 49 O of the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961 provides that an elector may refuse to vote after he has been identified and necessary entries made in the Register of Electors and the marked copy of the electoral roll, the secrecy of voting is not protected here inasmuch as the polling officials and the polling agents in the polling station get to know about the decision of such a voter. The Commission recommends that the law should be amended to specifically provide for negative / neutral voting. For this purpose, Rules 22 and 49B of the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961 may be suitably amended adding a proviso that in the ballot paper and the particulars on the ballot unit, in the column relating to names of candidates, after the entry relating to the last candidate, there shall be a column "None of the above", to enable a voter to reject all the candidates, if he chooses so. Such a proposal was earlier made by the Commission in 2001 (vide letter dated 10.12.2001).   (A petition by the People's Union for Civil Liberties seeking such a provision filed at the time of the recent general elections is pending before the Hon'ble Supreme Court)" UNQUOTE     Kshmendra    --- On Fri, 12/26/08, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" To: "V Ramaswamy" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 6:55 PM Dear all, It seems that there is no such rule as mentioned. According to the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961. Statutory Rules and Order section 49-O reads as- 49-O. Elector deciding not to vote.-If an elector, after his electoral roll number has been duly entered in the register of voters in Form-17A and has put his signature or thumb impression thereon as required under sub-rule (1) of rule 49L, decided not to record his vote, a remark to this effect shall be made against the said entry in Form 17A by the presiding officer and the signature or thumb impression of the elector shall be obtained against such remark. http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/cer1.htm There is no mention of -none of the above-. Furthermore a wiki entry on Section 49-O, cautions about a -disqualification hoax- floating on the net. Please follow the url- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-O#Text_of_Rule_49-O Best Taha On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:09 AM, V Ramaswamy wrote: > Election Commission wants Electronic Voting Machine options to include > "none > of the above". > > See: http://cuckooscall.blogspot.com/2008/12/vote-none-of-above.html > ______________________________ ___________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 10:12:22 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:12:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Medical Survey in Kashmiri Pandit Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812262042l56954016xae1186c6aa11bba4@mail.gmail.com> " A recent medical survey In a Kashmiri Pandit Migrant camp" *Shirya Bhatt Mission Hospital & Research Centre* H-199,Sec-II, Durgangar Jammu-180013 Cell:9419131509 Email: *Shiribhatt2002 at yahoo.com* _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ *25.12.2008* *PRESS RELEASE* * * *Community Survey for Bone Density, Hypertension and Obesity* * * As part of the *Periodic Community Surveys* for various medical disorders, a two-day Medical Camp was held in Shriya Bhatt Mission Hospital and Research Center. Though it was a multipurpose camp, the focus this time was to determine the incidence of *Osteoporosis (Metabolic bone disease)* in the population. The camp was held under the stewardship of the Director of the research center, Dr. K L Chowdhury. A total of 139 healthy adults were enrolled in response to an advertisement in the local news paper inviting healthy females above 40 and healthy males above 50 years age. The details from each subject were inquired and entered in a printed pro-forma by the hospital staff. Each subject had his body mass index verified (height and weight), and blood pressure measured in order to determine the incidence of obesity and hypertension as well. The bone density test was performed on a foot of each subject. *OBSERVATIONS* * * *Total patients – 139* Male - 55. Age 50-86 (Average 65) Female - 84 Age 40-90 (Average 57) *Bone loss – Total 51/139 (37%)* Male: mild to moderate loss – 12, Severe loss – 1 Total -13 (24%) Female: mild to moderate loss– 35, severe loss – 3 Total 38 (43%) *Obesity – Total 46/139 (36%)* Male: Mild to moderate - 17, Severe 3 Total 20 (38%) Female: Mild to moderate – 22, Severe 4 Total 26 (31%) *Hypertension – Total 40/139 (28%)* Male: Mild to moderate 17, Severe 3 Total 20(38%) Female: mild to moderate- 16, Severe 4 Total 20(25%) *Results*: There were 55 male s and 84 female subjects. The average age of the subjects was 65 years in males and 57 years in females. Of the total number of subjects studied, 51 (37%) suffered from various degrees of loss of bone density. There were 13 males (24%) and 38 females (43%). Only 4 suffered severe degree of bone density loss, the others suffered mild to moderate loss. A total of 46 subjects (36%) were obese, 7 of them grossly so and others of mild to moderate grades. And another 40(28%) found to have various grades of hypertension. * * *Contd…..* * * *…2….* * * *Conclusions:* The results are an eye opener on the incidence of three common afflictions in the community, namely Osteoporosis, Obesity, and Hypertension. Every apparently healthy looking adult above 40 years is suffering from some degree of bone loss, which is a harbinger of fractures; every third person from obesity which brings many other afflictions in its wake including diabetes; and every fourth adult suffers from some degree of high blood pressure which is a cause of heart disease, strokes etc. These figures are a frightening reflection on the state of health of the community and call for a great awareness in the public and drastic measures at the individual, community and Governmental level to inculcate healthy life styles in the population and to take steps towards the detection and early, effective treatment of the disorders. *Follow up Treatment Camp of newly detected patients:* A follow up camp was held of all the patients who were detected to have bone loss. They were called examined and treated by Dr K L Chowdhury in the hospital. All drugs were supplied by the hospital for a full treatment period in each patient. The bone density was determined by the densitometer and made available by *Jammu Health Care and Diagnostics Ltd.* We gratefully acknowledge their contribution. The camp was managed by *Shri R K Pandita (manager) &Shri Virji Bhat* with the assistance of Ramesh Raina,O.N.Bhat Shri Cahndji and Shri Jawaharlal Raina. Vir Ji Bhat. * * * * From subuhimjiwani at yahoo.com Sat Dec 27 12:45:35 2008 From: subuhimjiwani at yahoo.com (Subuhi Jiwani) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:15:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Call for student papers from Centre for Media and Cultural Studies, Mumbai Message-ID: <111054.47581.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FRAMES OF REFERENCE Unpacking The Real: Contesting Media Realities The first seminar of Centre for Media and Cultural Studies (CMCS) Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai January 29-30, 2009 www.unpackingthereal.wordpress.com Distinctions between the real and the imagined are often understood in black and white. This seminar seeks to unsettle such simplistic binaries. It will critically examine the media’s representations of ‘reality’ and raise questions about its frames of reference. Does the media, fictional or non-fictional, propagate certain ideas about truth, the real and the world? The seminar will unpack representations of reality in news, documentary and fiction films. Speakers will include eminent professionals from the media industry and academics working the area of Media and Cultural Studies. Students from around the country will also present papers and research work. The best student presentation will be awarded a cash prize. Guidelines Paper presentations must be made on the theme of ‘reality’ as mediated in news, documentary and fiction films. The paper must be submitted along with the seminar application form. The word limit is 3000 words. The last date for submission is 15.01.2009. The application should be sent to: Centre for Media and Cultural Studies Tata Institute of Social Sciences V.N Purav Marg Deonar, Mumbai 400088 Tel. No. 022 - 25525000 A nominal delegate fee of Rs. 200 will be charged. About CMCS The Centre for Media and Cultural Studies, (CMCS) is an independent centre of Tata Institute of Social Sciences, engaged in media teaching, production, research and dissemination. In 2007, it offered, for the first time, a two-year Master’s in Media and Cultural Studies. This seminar has been organised by the post-graduate students of the Centre. A unique feature of the Centre is the close linkage between the technical and academic areas of its work. The work of the Centre straddles both realms, thus facilitating a synergy between research, teaching and production, all of which are informed by a keen sense of connection with local subaltern cultures of resistance and invention. The CMCS has done pioneering work in critical media education in the country. It also has to its credit, twenty-one awards at national and international festivals. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 12:56:01 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:56:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How Rabbi and others were killed Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812262326ydda09e4m363b91abb1610b39@mail.gmail.com> TERRORISTS IN MUMBAI MUTILATED VICTIMS, RABBI AND PREGNANT WIFE http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/12/muslim-terroris.html From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Dec 27 13:42:10 2008 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:42:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Preface / Ranciere / The Nights of Labour Message-ID: <460E4E63-0CA5-4FFB-840E-580A2534E3D5@sarai.net> dear All, Sarai will be launching its social theory translation project this February with the launch of the Hindi language version of Jacques Rancière's "The Nights of Labour: the workers' dream in 19th century France". Abhay Dube has translated the book. Ravikant is the series editor and we will soon be coming out with a series of books. Ranciere will be delivering a public talk on the launch of the Hindi translation on 6th of February at Sarai/CSDS lawns. This will be followed by a workshop on the 7th morning with him at the seminar room in CSDS. Enclosed is the new Preface by Ranciere to the Hindi language version of Nights of Labour. The preface was written in French and Rana Dasgupta has translated it into English. (the French version is also below.) warmly Jeebesh PREFACE The Indian reader who opens this book in 2009 will no doubt think it is a strange thing. How can these stories of nineteenth-century French lockmakers, tailors, cobblers and typesetters be relevant to the information revolution, the reign of immaterial production or the global market? This question, it should be said, was already present for the French reader who opened this book twenty-seven years ago. We did not speak yet of globalisation, nor of the end of the proletariat, of history or of utopia. Quite the contrary: France had recently elected a combined socialist and communist government, which proudly laid claim to the traditions of Marxism and of working class politics. And it is in this context that the book seemed to run counter to its own time, and became difficult to classify. The author was a professional philosopher who had struck his first blows, in the 1960s, by participating in the theoretical enterprise of Louis Althusser, who wished to rebuild Marxist theory. Now, instead of offering philosophical theses, he was telling stories about the French working class of the nineteenth century. And he offered nothing by way of Marxism – no analysis of the forms of industrial production, of capitalist exploitation, of social theories or of class struggles or worker movements. His workers, moreover, were not “real” workers; they were artisans from olden times, dreamers who dabbled in poetry and philosophy, who got together in the evening to found ephemeral newspapers, who became intoxicated by socialist and communist utopias but for the most part avoided doing anything about them. And the book seemed to lose itself in the aimless wanderings of these people, following the dreams of one, or the little stories others recounted in their diaries; the letters they wrote about their Sunday walks in the Paris suburbs, or the everyday concerns of those who had left for the United States to try out their dream of fraternal communalism. What on earth were readers to do with these stories in 1980? The question is not, therefore, one of geographical or temporal distance. This book may seem untimely in an era that proclaims the disappearance of the proletariat, but it also seemed so in the previous era, which claimed to represent the class that had been united by the condition of the factory and the science of capitalist production. Let me put it simply: this book is out of place in a postmodern vision for the same reasons that it was already out of place in a classical modernist vision. It runs counter to the belief, shared by modernism and postmodernism alike, in a straight line of history where cracks in the path of time are thought to be the work of time itself – the outcome of a global temporal process that both creates and destroys forms of life, consciousness and action. This book rejects this because, despite its apparent objectivity, such an idea of time always places a hierarchy upon beings and objects. The belief in historical evolution, said Walter Benjamin, legitimises the victors. For me, this belief legitimises the knowledge that decrees what is important and what is not, what makes or does not make history. It is thus that the social sciences have declared that these little stories of workers taking an afternoon walk, or straying far from the solid realities of the factory and the organised struggle, have no historical importance. In doing so they confirm the social order, which has always been built on the simple idea that the vocation of workers is to work – “and to struggle,” good progressive souls add – and that they have no time to lose in wandering, writing or thinking. This book turns this idea of time on its head. In the grand modernist narratives of the development of productive forces and of forms of class consciousness, this book sees a way of diverting the intimate energy of the very struggles they claim to represent, and re- attributing it to the order of time that was struggled against. It sees such narratives as a way of reinforcing the power of those who believe they have a masterful, external perspective on the history in which they declare everyone else to be collectively imprisoned. This idea of imprisonment, and this position of mastery, had found their radical form in the project of Louis Althusser that I had participated in. For this project, the agents of capitalist production were necessarily caught in the ideological traps produced by the system that held them in their place. That is to say that our project itself trapped them in a perfect circle: it explained that the dominated were kept in their place by ignorance of the laws of domination. But it also explained that the place they were in prevented them from knowing the laws of domination. So they were dominated because they did not understand, and they did not understand because they were dominated. This meant that all the efforts they made to struggle against their domination were blind, trapped in the dominant ideology, and only intellectuals, who were capable of perceiving the logic of the circle, could pull them out of their subjection. In the France of 1968 it became abundantly clear that the circle of domination was held in place in fact by this so-called science. It became clear that subjection and revolution had no other cause than themselves and that the science that pretended to explain subjection and inspire revolution was in fact a part of the dominant order. It is with this lesson in mind that I undertook in the 1970s the long period of research in the labour archives that culminated in this book. On the way, many surprises awaited me. I set out to find primitive revolutionary manifestos, but what I found was texts which demanded in refined language that workers be considered as equals and their arguments responded to with proper arguments. I went to consult the archives of a carpenter in order to find out about more about the conditions of labour; I first came upon a correspondence from the 1830s where this worker told a friend about a Sunday in May when he had gone out with two friends to enjoy the sunrise over the village, spend the day discussing metaphysics in an inn, and end it trying to convert the diners at the next table to their humanitarian social vision. Then I read documents in which this same worker described an entire vision of life, an unusual counter-economy which sought ways to reduce the worker’s consumption of everyday goods so that he would be more independent of the market economy, and better able to fight against it. Through these texts, and many others, I realised that workers had never needed others to explain the secrets of domination to them, and that the problem they faced was having to submit themselves, intellectually and materially, to the forms by which it inscribed itself on their bodies, and imposed upon them gestures, modes of perception, attitudes and language. “Be realistic: demand the impossible!” the protestors cried in 1968. But for these workers in 1830, it was not about demanding the impossible but making it happen themselves: of appropriating the time they did not have, either by spying opportunities in the working day or by giving up their own night of rest to discuss or to write, to compose verses or to work out philosophies. These hard-won bonuses of time and liberty were not marginal phenomena, they were not diversions from the building of the worker movement and its great ideals. They were a revolution, discreet but radical nonetheless, and they made those other things possible. They comprised the work by which men and women tore themselves away from an identity forged for them by a system of domination and affirmed themselves as independent inhabitants of a common world, capable of all the refinements and self-denials that previously had been associated only with those classes that were released from the daily concern of work and food. It is the necessity of acknowledging this revolution which gives to this book its unusual form. The book plunges us directly into workers’ words, in all their forms – from personal confidences and everyday anecdotes to fiction composed in diaries to philosophical speculations and programmes for the future. It does not seek to impose any differences in status, any hierarchy between description, fiction or argument. This does not arise from some fetishistic passion for the lived. This is generally the excuse for a division of roles in which the people are made to speak in order to prove that they do indeed speak the language of the people, which allows the poor to have the experience of the real and the flavour of the everyday in order to better reserve for itself the privilege of creative imagination and analytical language. It is precisely this division between the language of the people and literary language, between the real and fiction, between the document and the argument that these “popular” texts call into question. We will never know if their memories of childhood, their descriptions of the working day or their accounts of their encounters with language are authentic. A narrative is never a simple account of facts. It is a way of constructing – or deconstructing – a lived world. The learned philosopher and the child of the people go about it in the same way. In the third book of Plato’s Republic, Socrates asks his interlocutors to accept an unlikely story: if some people are philosophers and legislators while others are workers, it is because the gods mixed gold into the souls of the first group and iron into the souls of the second. This outlandish tale is necessary in order to give consistency to a world in which differences in condition must be accepted as differences in nature. The worker narratives presented here are like counter-myths, narratives that blur these differences in nature. This is why it was so important to me to unravel the mesh of words, in which narrative, dreams, fiction and argument are all part of the same enterprise, in order to upset the order of things that puts individuals, classes and forms of speech in their place. There is no popular intelligence occupied by practical things, nor a learned intelligence devoted to abstract thought. There is not one intelligence devoted to the real and another devoted to fiction. It is always the same intelligence. This is the message proclaimed in the same historical period by Joseph Jacotot, a teacher who broke with all tradition. While his contemporaries wanted to give the people just the instruction that was necessary and sufficient for them to adequately occupy their place in society, he called them to free themselves intellectually in order to demonstrate the equality of all intelligences (1). In the very diversity of their expression, the workers whose stories are told in this book demonstrate precisely this equality. In order to show the subversive power of their work I needed to break with the conventions of the social sciences for which these personal narratives, fictional writings and essays are no more than the confused expression of a social process which only they can know. I needed to remove the conventional labels from these texts – of testimony, or symptoms of a social reality – and to exhibit them as writing and thought that worked towards the construction of an alternative social world. That is why this book renounces the distance of explanation. It attempts instead to weave a sensory fabric of these texts so that their radical energy may resonate again in our own time, and threaten the order which gives categories to times and forms of speech. And this is the reason why our severe theorists and historians decided that this book was literature. The issue for me was to recall that the arguments of philosophers and intellectuals are made of the same common fabric of language and thought as the creations of writers and these proletarian narratives. This is also why I am not afraid that this book will suffer too much from distances of time, place and language. For it does not simply tell the story of the working class of a far-off time and place. It tells a form of experience which is not so far away from our own. Contemporary forms of capitalism, the explosion of the labour market, the new precariousness of labour and the destruction of systems of social solidarity, all create forms of life and experiences of work that are possibly closer to those of these artisans than to the universe of hi-tech workers and the global bourgeoisie given over to the frenetic consumption described by so many contemporary sociologists and philosophers. In our world, just as in theirs, the challenge is to obstruct and subvert the order of time imposed by a system of domination. To oppose the government of capitalist and state elites and their experts with an intelligence that comes from everyone and anyone. It remains for me to offer my warmest thanks to the editors and translators who have made it possible for the voices of these anonymous people, forgotten for so long, to speak in an Indian language, and so to encounter new voices with which they may mix and extend their appeal. Jacques Rancière (1) See Jacques Rancière, The Ignorant Schoolmaster, Stanford University Press, 1991 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- French Version Préface Sans doute le lecteur indien qui ouvrira ce livre en 2009 se demandera- t-il quel étrange objet il a entre les mains. En quoi ces histoires de serruriers, tailleurs, cordonniers ou typographes français du dix- neuvième siècle peuvent-ils le concerner à l’époque de la révolution informatique, du règne de la production immatérielle et du marché mondial ? Cette question, à vrai dire, se posait déjà au lecteur français qui ouvrait ce livre il y a vingt-sept ans. Sans doute, à l’époque, ne parlait-on pas encore de globalisation, non plus que de fin du prolétariat, de l’histoire et des utopies. Tout au contraire : la France venait de se doter d’un gouvernement socialiste à participation communiste qui revendiquait bien haut l’héritage du marxisme et de la classe ouvrière. Et c’est par rapport à cet héritage que le livre venait à contretemps et prenait l’allure d’un objet inclassable. L’auteur était philosophe de profession et il avait fait ses premières armes, dans les années 1960, en participant à l’entreprise théorique de Louis Althusser qui voulait refonder la théorie marxiste. Or, au lieu d’argumenter des thèses philosophiques, il racontait des histoires qui concernaient la classe ouvrière française du XIX° siècle. Et, en fait de marxisme, il ne donnait aucune analyse des formes de la production industrielle, de l’exploitation capitaliste, des théories sociales, ni des luttes des partis et syndicats ouvriers. Ses ouvriers d’ailleurs n’étaient pas des « vrais » ouvriers, c’étaient des artisans de l’ancien temps, des rêveurs qui se mêlaient de faire des vers et d’inventer des philosophies, se réunissaient le soir pour créer des journaux éphémères, se prenaient de passion pour les utopies socialistes et communistes mais se dérobaient le plus souvent à leur application. Et le livre se perdait apparemment sur leurs chemins vagabonds, accompagnant les rêveries de l’un, les petites histoires que d’autres racontaient dans leurs journaux, les lettres qu’ils échangeaient pour parler de leurs promenades dominicales dans la banlieue parisienne ou des soucis quotidiens de ceux qui étaient partis aux Etats-Unis pour expérimenter leur rêve de communauté fraternelle. Qu’est-ce que les lecteurs de 1980 pouvaient bien faire de ces histoires ? La question n’est donc pas de distance géographique ni d’éloignement temporel. Si ce livre est à contretemps pour une époque qui proclame la disparition du prolétariat, il l’était déjà pour l’époque qui se réclamait de la consistance de la classe unie par la condition de l’usine et la science de la production capitaliste. Disons-le simplement : il est intempestif pour une vision postmoderne parce qu’il l’était déjà pour une vision moderniste classique. Il prend en effet à rebours la croyance, également partagée par le modernisme et le postmodernisme, en une ligne droite de l’histoire où les ruptures dans le cours du temps sont pensées comme l’œuvre du temps lui-même, l’œuvre d’un processus temporel global engendrant et supprimant tour à tour des formes de vie, de conscience et d’action. Il refuse cette idée du temps, parce qu’elle est toujours , sous son apparente objectivité, une manière de hiérarchiser, de mettre les choses et les êtres à leur place. La croyance à l’évolution historique, disait Walter Benjamin, est la légitimation des vainqueurs. Elle est pour moi la légitimation du savoir qui décrète ce qui est ou non important, ce qui fait ou non histoire. C’est ainsi que les sciences sociales ont déclaré sans importance historique ces petites histoires d’ouvriers en promenade ou en divagation loin des réalités solides de l’usine et de la lutte organisée. Ce faisant elles confirmaient l’ordre social qui s’est toujours construit sur l’idée simple que les travailleurs ont pour vocation de travailler – les bonnes âmes progressistes ajoutent : et de lutter – et qu’ils n’ont pas de temps à perdre pour jouer les flâneurs, les écrivains ou les penseurs. Ce livre prend, de fait, cette idée du temps à revers. Dans les grands récits modernistes du développement des forces productives et des formes de conscience de classe il voit une manière de détourner l’énergie intime des luttes mêmes dont ils se réclament , de l’attribuer à nouveau à ce temps contre lequel elles s’étaient rebellés .Il y voit une manière d’assurer le pouvoir de ceux qui s’arrogent le regard du maître sur le processus historique dans lequel ils déclarent les autres collectivement enfermés. Cette déclaration d’enfermement et cette position de maîtrise avaient trouvé leur forme radicale dans l’entreprise althussérienne à laquelle j’avais participé. Celle-ci décrivait les agents des rapports de production capitalistes comme nécessairement enfermés dans les rets de l’idéologie produite par le système qui les tenait à leur place. C’est-à-dire qu’elle les enfermait elle-même dans un cercle parfait : elle expliquait que les dominés étaient maintenus à leur place par ignorance des lois de la domination. Mais elle expliquait aussi que la place où ils étaient les empêchait de comprendre les lois de la domination : ils étaient dominés parce qu’ils ne comprenaient, et ils ne comprenaient pas parce qu’ils étaient dominés. Cela voulait dire que tous les efforts qu’ils faisaient pour lutter contre la domination étaient eux-mêmes aveugles, piégés par l’idéologie dominante, et que seuls les savants, capables de percevoir la logique du cercle, pouvaient les tirer de leur sujétion. Dans la France de 1968, il apparut avec force que ce cercle de la domination était en fait celui de cette prétendue science. Il apparut que la sujétion et la révolte n’avaient pas d’autre cause qu’elles-mêmes et que la science qui prétendait expliquer la sujétion et instruire la révolte était complice de l’ordre dominant. C’est sous l’effet de cette leçon des faits que j’entrepris dans les années 1970 le long travail de recherche dans les archives ouvrières qui aboutit à ce livre. Sur ce chemin, bien des surprises m’attendaient. J’étais parti à la recherche des manifestes sauvages de la révolte ; or je tombais sur des textes d’une écriture bien polie demandant qu’on considère les ouvriers comme des égaux et qu’on réponde à leurs raisons par des raisons. J’étais allé consulter les archives d’un ouvrier menuisier , pour y trouver des renseignements sur les conditions du travail : je tombais d’abord sur une correspondance des années 1830 où cet ouvrier racontait à un ami un dimanche de mai où il était parti avec deux compagnons jouir du lever de soleil sur le fleuve, discuter de métaphysique dans une auberge et employer la fin de la journée à convertir à leur foi humanitaire et sociale les dîneurs de la table voisine. Je lus ensuite les textes où ce même ouvrier décrivait tout un plan de vie, une contre-économie paradoxale où chaque article du budget quotidien de l’ouvrier était l’objet d’une attention destinée à consommer encore moins pour accroître son indépendance et sa capacité de lutte contre l’économie marchande. A travers ces textes et bien d’autres, il apparaissait que les ouvriers n’avaient jamais eu besoin qu’on leur explique les secrets de la domination, que leur problème était de se soustraire, intellectuellement et matériellement, aux formes par lesquelles celle-ci s’imprimait sur leur corps, leur imposait des gestes, des modes de perception, des attitudes et un langage. « Soyez réalistes, demandez l’impossible », proclamaient les manifestants de mai 1968. Pour ces ouvriers de1830 , la question n’était pas de demander l’impossible, mais de le réaliser par eux-mêmes, de s’approprier ce temps qui leur était refusé en apprenant au regard et à la pensée à se libérer dans l’exercice même du travail quotidien, ou en gagnant sur la nuit du repos le temps de discuter, d’écrire , de composer des vers ou d’élaborer des philosophies. Ces gains de temps et de liberté n’étaient pas des phénomènes marginaux ou des diversions par rapport à la constitution du mouvement ouvrier et de ses grands objectifs. Ils étaient la révolution à la fois discrète et radicale qui les rendait possibles , le travail par lequel des hommes et des femmes s’arrachaient à une identité forgée par la domination et s’affirmaient comme des habitants à part entière d’un monde commun, capables de tous les raffinements ou de toutes les ascèses jusque là réservées aux classes délivrées du souci quotidien du travail et du pain . C’est la nécessité de rendre compte de cette révolution qui donne à ce livre sa structure singulière. Il nous introduit directement dans la parole de ces ouvriers, sous toutes ses formes, de la confidence personnelle ou du récit de l’expérience quotidienne aux spéculations philosophiques et aux programmes d’avenir, en passant par les histoires fictives que racontent leurs journaux. Il n’introduit aucune différence de statut, aucune hiérarchie entre la description, la fiction ou l’argumentation. Ce n’est pas au nom d’une passion fétichiste du vécu. Celle-ci est généralement l’alibi d’un partage des rôles qui donne la parole au peuple pour vérifier qu’il parle bien la langue du peuple, qui accorde aux pauvres l’expérience du réel et la saveur du quotidien pour mieux se réserver le privilège de l’imagination créatrice et de la parole explicatrice. Or c’est justement ce partage des rôles entre la langue du peuple et la langue littéraire , le réel et la fiction, le document et l’argument que ces textes « populaires » contestent. Nous ne saurons jamais si leurs souvenirs d’enfance, leurs descriptions de la journée au travail ou leurs récits de la rencontre avec l’écriture sont authentiques. Un récit n’est pas une simple relation des faits, c’est une manière de construire – ou de déconstruire- un monde vécu . Le philosophe savant et l’enfant du peuple y procèdent également. Au livre III de la République de Platon, Socrate demande à ses interlocuteurs d’admettre une histoire invraisemblable : si les uns sont philosophes et législateurs tandis que d’autres sont ouvriers, c’est parce que la divinité a mêlé de l’or dans l’âme des premiers et du fer dans l’âme des seconds. Cette histoire invraisemblable est nécessaire pour donner consistance à un monde où la différence des conditions doit être acceptée comme différence des natures. Les récits ouvriers ici présentés sont comme des contre-mythes, des récits qui brouillent cette différence des natures. C’est pourquoi il m’importait de dérouler ce tissu de paroles où le récit, la rêverie, la fiction et l’argumentation font partie d’un même travail pour renverser l’ordre des choses qui met les individus, les classes et les discours à leur place. Il n’y a pas une intelligence populaire occupée aux choses pratiques et une intelligence savante vouée à la pensée abstraite. Il n’y a pas une intelligence vouée au réel, une autre vouée à la fiction. C’est toujours la même intelligence qui est à l’œuvre. Telle est la thèse que proclamait à la même époque un pédagogue en rupture avec toute la tradition, Joseph Jacotot. Alors que ses contemporains voulaient donner aux gens du peuple l’instruction nécessaire et suffisante pour qu’ils occupent adéquatement leur place dans la société, il les appelait à s’émanciper intellectuellement pour vérifier l’égalité des intelligences[1]. C’est bien à cette vérification de l’égalité que les ouvriers émancipés dont ce livre raconte l’histoire s’appliquent dans la diversité même de leurs expressions. Pour rendre compte de la puissance subversive de ce travail il me fallait rompre avec les habitudes de la science sociale pour qui ces récits personnels, ces fictions ou ces discours ne sont que des expressions confuses d’un processus social qu’elle est seule à connaître. Il fallait soustraire ces paroles à leur statut de témoignages ou de symptômes d’une réalité sociale pour les montrer comme une écriture et une pensée à l’œuvre dans la construction d’un autre monde social. C’est pourquoi ce livre a renoncé à la distance qui explique. Il s’est employé à créer le tissu sensible propre à faire résonner dans notre présent ce bouleversement de l’ordre qui met les temps et les discours à leur place. C’est pourquoi les théoriciens et historiens sévères ont jugé que c’était là de la littérature. Il s’agissait de fait pour moi de rappeler que les raisons du philosophe et du savant sont taillées dans le même tissu commun du langage et de la pensée que les inventions des écrivains et que ces récits prolétaires. C’est aussi pourquoi je ne crains pas trop pour ce livre les effets de la distance des temps, des lieux et des langues. Car il ne raconte pas simplement l’histoire d’une classe ouvrière d’un autre âge en un lieu éloigné. Il raconte une forme d’expérience qui n’est pas si loin de la nôtre. Les formes actuelles du capitalisme , l’éclatement du marché du travail, la précarisation des emplois et la destruction des systèmes de solidarité sociale créent des expériences du travail et des formes de vie peut-être plus proches de celles de ces artisans que de l’ univers de travailleurs high-tech et de petite bourgeoisie mondiale livrée à une consommation frénétique décrit par tant de sociologues et de philosophes aujourd’hui. Dans ce monde aussi la question est d’interrompre et de subvertir l’ordre du temps qu’impose la domination. Elle est d’opposer au gouvernement des élites capitalistes et étatiques et de leurs experts une intelligence qui est celle de tous et de n’importe qui. Il me reste à remercier bien chaleureusement les éditeurs et traducteurs qui ont permis à ces voix des anonymes longtemps oubliées de résonner en langue indienne et de rencontrer dans cette langue nouvelle d’autres voix pour se mêler aux leurs et prolonger leur appel. Jacques Rancière From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 20:48:35 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:18:35 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 References: <65be9bf40812231508s33f5f3by2e3dabd60438fa87@mail.gmail.com> <529D4280AAD5476DACA187C9579F944B@tara> <65be9bf40812240401g2be1efeay6bfb0b7a1f66aa09@mail.gmail.com> <8F082721C317462388ED83D86A835E7A@tara> <65be9bf40812251105k4c9a759bg125f4eda9526d122@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40812260728x4c8a911cx2ac4f74fbf9a6b78@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36F11F41DB5F4B6588D18F82EEFFFA7D@tara> Dear all and Taha. As I said in my earlier mail that I am not speaking as an expert in this matter. Your claims are, I am sure, based on research and my assertions are based on what I think a common sense approach. My reference to US was not to argue that since US has such a system in place, India too must go for it. I just wanted to maintain that it doesn't have to be a private firm issuing the cards. It is in country like ours that we have to prove our identity to demonstrate that we belong to the country we were born in. As I stated in an earlier mail that sometimes people have to prove that they are actually not dead or that their signifiers have been misappropriated by their relatives. I also said earlier that one multipurpose identity card (may be a passport issued at birth) can make all other identity cards redundant. But since I have all this andd I have nothing new to add, I must not waste the time of the list. Thanks for reading. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: Sarai Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose NationalIdentity Cards-6 Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. Let me begin by saying that I respect your perspective. If you think and feel that we need identity cards on a day to day basis then I think you are rightfully entitled to that opinion. I think you rightly mentioned that 'identity certifies the relationship between the the signifier and the signified' however I feel slightly uncomfortable with all assertions which suggest that we must do things because somebody else have done. Why? I ask. Even in America social security numbers and driving licenses were originally just that- social security numbers and driving licenses. It took years before the government of US started using these certificates as identity cards. In the UK national identity cards were introduced during the Second World War but the Government had to let go of them because of immense public pressure. The people of US and UK are still not convinced about the durability of a national identity card. The primary reason being that it seems that the people of these countries still share a healthy skeptical relationship with their Governments. Don't you think that any democracy should foster skepticism and questioning. Further more, even in these highly advanced super modern societies the State finds itself incapable of ensuring the safety of the data. Please read the story below for more. (The £5.4 billion national identity card plan is being postponed... following high-profile data breaches from various government departments. http://www.itpro.co.uk/159060/conservatives-claim-id-card-delay) In America, 'the mecca of privatization' according to you, although the REAL ID scheme is passed by the Senate, many in that country feel that the scheme is a REAL 'mess'. Please read the story below for more- (Why the 'Real ID' Act is a real mess- http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html) Given the tone and tenor of Obama's rhetoric I for one will not be surprised at all if the new administration decides to reconsider the Real ID act scheme. I think that we in India must not hesitate before asking basic, fundamental questions about identity, because if you just look around all the burning issues in India today seem to be clustered around notions of identity. At the socio-political level it is articulated in terms of communal and religious identity, (you know Hindu v/s Muslim v/s Christian etc. etc ) or at socio- economic level it often appears in the form of contest or negotiation (for instance the Gujjar Issue or the recent un-rest in Maharastra). One wonders how the National Identity card scheme will effcet all these issues? or For that matter, in what ways will a condensed identity of an Indian Citizen will play itself out in the public domain, in years to come. The question is not whether we must go for an identity card or not, because if have an identity card then I will too have one in addition to a voter ID card, a driving license, a PAN card, a ration card and a Passport that I already have, the question is Why we must have a identity card?or What justifies the transfer of what many believe to be 27,000 crore rupees of public money to just carry out the survey, verify each and every one of us, print and distribute cards. The cost of maintaince is additional to this bill. or What are the ways in which the data so gathered by such an exercise will be used? or What is the mechanism with which this data will be accessed? Who will access this data to do what? What sort of policies will emerge from this data? or Will the survey, verification and distribution be just? Warm Regards Taha On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 4:08 AM, taraprakash wrote: Dear Taha and all. i find myself not capable of considering this issue from a negative perspective, therefore unfit to carry forward this discussion. All I know is that most of us use some kind of identity proof on day to day basis. I am neither a poet or a philosopher to be able to delve in to various facets of identity. I personally believe that you are given a name by the society and you are given a more or less distinctive facade by the nature. A proof of identity certifies the relationship between the the signifier and the signified. That there are loopholes in the system cannot be the sole reason for rejecting the identity cards. And no they don't have to be private agencies issuing the identity cards. Even in the mecca of privatization, the state identity cards and driving licences are issued by government agencies. The individual states in the United States issue state id cards to those who cannot drive. Otherwise their driving license is the state id. I would think that rather than begging the state several times for passport, ration card, pan card, voters id card etc one card can be issued. India and other countries in the subcontinent are not the best at keeping records but things are changing. They must change if they are not. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Dec 27 23:47:28 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:17:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Regarding the notion of signifier and signified. Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271017v243f89c0m734049ef1eeb3421@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. You wrote- I just wanted to maintain that it doesn't > have to be a private firm issuing the cards. I feel that it is highly unlikely that given the times we live in, the Indian government can conduct such a grand exercise like issuing identity documents to almost one billion people without the help of private sector. The private sector will share a major portion of responsibilities insofar as the production or manufacturing of the cards is concerned and will perhaps share minor responsibilities as far as distribution and maintenance is concerned. I say this from my first hand conversations with various officials from the office of the Registrar General and by following news stories posted on the web regarding MNIC in the last three years. We do not know the exact nature of the involvement of private sector. The primary reason being no such information is publicly available. The only way we can make a conjecture regarding the scale of involvement of private sector is by surveying technology related trade journals and by closing watching the graphs of scrips of publicly listed companies. We do know that the semi conductor division of Philips called NXP, the Tata Consultancy Services and Bartonics, a Radio Frequency Identification chip manufacturing firm based in Hyderabad, have emerged as the main players. We also know that a Delhi based firm called Shonkh Technologies was also involved in the beginning. Shonkh Technologies unfortunately had to reconsider its bidding options with respect to MNIC because of a Supreme Court injunction which debarred its scrip to be traded. I also believe that Shonkh Technologies was blacklisted by SEBI. I think if the Government of India wants all of us to have a National Identity Card and they have a policy in place and they have a time line to follow to insure that such a card gets delivered then I do not think that what you and I or few people on this list say or write will have any bearing on that. I think if such a card is introduced then I will have also have one. Now having said that, the question then remains for us is Can we as citizens of this country articulate the issue of documented individual identity beyond the media inspired format of questioning, for instance- Do we need a National Identity Card? Well 89% percent of our viewers think that we do. And Sagarika smiles!! Before tossing the Question of the Day to her Experts. I think we can and it need not be dependent on expert knowledge. It can be as commonsensical as you deem it to be. All we have to do is to ask [?] Basic and Fundamental questions. And search for their answers. For instance if the National Identity Card is going to be an individual identity document then we can begin our inquiry by asking say for instance- What Constitutes the identity of a person? According to you it is the relationship between the signifier and signified. Like you there are few more people out there who have invested some part of their time thinking about the notion of identity. There is Rene Descartes, for instance, who believes that identity is subject to ones consciousness of ones mind. He believes that there is a duality between the mind and the body. And that identity is nothing but the faculty to locate the self in consciousness. In other words identity is the act of knowing we we are which must be independent of the our bodily organs, including the brain. Descartes of course makes a distinction between the brain which is material and immaterial elements like the mind. Leibeniz on the other hand presents a very simple notion regarding identity, that is, he avers that identity is a numerical entity. Given the apparent simplicity of this notion many people are charmed by it. Leibeniz thinks that if X is identical to Y, then whatever is true of X must be true of Y and vice versa. In direct opposition to quantitative or numerical identity is qualitative identity, where although x is as same as y because they belong to the same type but they are not numerically identical. For instance a tiger from Bengal will be qualitatively similar to a tiger from Gir insofar as both are tigers but they will not be numerically similar. Furthermore identity is imagined in time or temporal dimensions, which is called Synchronic Identity, for instance Manmohan Singh the Prime Minister of India in 2008 is syn-chronically identical to Manmohan Singh in 2006. Opposed to Synchronic identity is Dichronic identity. For instance, Ram played hockey with his friend Yuvraj when is was young was the SAME Ram who played Chess with Saleem when he was young. Here one and the same person is imagined in different stages of time. To add to these views is metaphor of Ship of Theseus wherein the argument is, if different parts of the ship are changed over period of time to such an extent that all parts are changed over the period of the time then would it be the same ship. So for instance, if biologically speaking our body is constantly renewing and discarding cells then are we the same person as we claim to be. Can we be absolutely sure that there is no difference between us when we are mere foetus, to when we were crawling, to when we young adults, to when we became adults? If there is some difference and our self perception was different then how can we be characterized as same person? The premise in any argument related to an Identity card is that we are same people with the same body and same brain, that there is a physical continuity over period of time. Is this premise valid? John Locke, maintained that identity is a function of memory. That personal identity is a criteria of memory. The possession of an uninterrupted flow of self conscious awareness. Then there are other narratives of identity which relate to identity as sameness and identity as selfhood. Paul Ricoeur maintains that idem is the Latin root which corresponds to identity as sameness. And ipse corresponds to identity as selfhood. Ricoeur also suggests that identity shares a distinct relationship with character that is, character which is a set of distinctive marks which permits the re-identification of a human individual as being the same. These are few ways in which identity have been imagined in the past. Now given this we can think aloud about how has the Government of India imagined identity? or What are the reasons which the officials of the Registrar General have put forth to map us? Are those reasons reasonable? If so how? We need to know them because they concern us? If the Indian Government asks me share my personal details with them, then, I would do it, unhesitatingly, because, I trust them, because at the end of the day it is my Government too but at the same time I would like to engage anyone who is interested in telling me as to how has the current dispensation imagined individual identity? Is this imagination just? Will it be justly used? Warm Regards Taha N.B: All the above definitions of identity are gleaned from three sources. They are- Critique of Pure Reason by John Locke, Discourse on Method and Meditations on First Philosophy by Rene Descartes and The Princely Impostor by Partha Charterjee Chapter VIII, The Identity Puzzle, pp 115-129 On 12/27/08, taraprakash wrote: > Dear all and Taha. As I said in my earlier mail that I am not speaking as an > expert in this matter. Your claims are, I am sure, based on research and my > assertions are based on what I think a common sense approach. > > My reference to US was not to argue that since US has such a system in > place, India too must go for it. I just wanted to maintain that it doesn't > have to be a private firm issuing the cards. > It is in country like ours that we have to prove our identity to demonstrate > that we belong to the country we were born in. As I stated in an earlier > mail that sometimes people have to prove that they are actually not dead or > that their signifiers have been misappropriated by their relatives. I also > said earlier that one multipurpose identity card (may be a passport issued > at birth) can make all other identity cards redundant. But since I have all > this andd I have nothing new to add, I must not waste the time of the list. > Thanks for reading. > Regards From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Dec 27 23:55:53 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:25:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" In-Reply-To: <354279.25081.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40812260525s69747e71o9706be5ad0d7cec4@mail.gmail.com> <354279.25081.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271025s27e0032age3af2c5de92373af@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, Thanks indeed for clarifying that out. I appreciate that. Though it is still not clear whether the Election Commission has in principle take a decision to include a -none of the above- column in EVM's. It seems that a proposal has been forwarded but a final word is awaited. Lets see... Regards Taha On 12/26/08, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Taha > > It is a matter of interpretation. The Rule does exist in a varied form. What > is being spoken about is incorporating it into the Electronic Voting Machine > system. > > You have yourself quoted Rule 49-O of the 'Manual of Election Law' which is > a part of "The Conduct of Election Rules, 1961". This provides for the > elector 'not to record his vote' through a specified process that > physically RECORDS the elector's decision of "not to record his vote'. It > has no secrecy. > > This would mean that the elector is refusing to cast his/her vote in favour > of any of the contesting candidates. This is therefore an available Legal > provision of what can be interpreted as "none of those contesting" or "none > of the above". But it has no secrecy > > The point being made and a very valid point is that the elector who does not > want to vote in favour of any of the contesting candidates might want to > keep 'secret' his/her decision of "not to record his vote" because of > various anticipated repercussions / pressures since all the polling agents > and polling staff become aware of that decision. > > Yet, in the "Manual Voting" system, the elector can make sure that his/her > vote is invalid by various means such as 'not marking' or 'marking all'. > > In the case of Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) that confidentiality of > "not to record his vote" can in no way be ensured since the options > available on the EVM are for casting vote only in favour of one > person. Hence the reported Election Commission proposal of "none of the > above" option. It is a good move. > > The "disqualification" by "negative vote" is indeed a hoax. There is no such > provision. > > The "none of the above" provision a part of "Proposals for Electoral > Reforms" forwarded by Chief Election Commissioner T S Krishna Murthy to PM > Singh in July 2004, there is a proposal (No. 7) for amending the "Rule 49O". > The Election Commission Website says: > > QUOTE > > > "NEGATIVE / NEUTRAL VOTING > > The Commission has received proposals from a very large number of > individuals and organizations that there should be a provision enabling a > voter to reject all the candidates in the constituency if he does not find > them suitable. ....... Although, Rule 49 O of the Conduct of Election Rules, > 1961 provides that an elector may refuse to vote after he has been > identified and necessary entries made in the Register of Electors and the > marked copy of the electoral roll, the secrecy of voting is not protected > here inasmuch as the polling officials and the polling agents in the polling > station get to know about the decision of such a voter. > The Commission recommends that the law should be amended to specifically > provide for negative / neutral voting. For this purpose, Rules 22 and 49B of > the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961 may be suitably amended adding a proviso > that in the ballot paper and the particulars on the ballot unit, in the > column relating to names of candidates, after the entry relating to the last > candidate, there shall be a column "None of the above", to enable a voter to > reject all the candidates, if he chooses so. Such a proposal was earlier > made by the Commission in 2001 (vide letter dated 10.12.2001). > > (A petition by the People's Union for Civil Liberties seeking such a > provision filed at the time of the recent general elections is pending > before the Hon'ble Supreme Court)" > UNQUOTE > > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Fri, 12/26/08, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Vote "none of the above" > To: "V Ramaswamy" > Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Friday, December 26, 2008, 6:55 PM > > Dear all, > > It seems that there is no such rule as mentioned. > > According to the Conduct of Election Rules, 1961. Statutory Rules and Order > section 49-O reads as- > > 49-O. Elector deciding not to vote.-If an elector, after his > electoral roll number has been duly entered in the register of voters in > Form-17A and has put his signature or thumb impression thereon as required > under sub-rule (1) of rule 49L, decided not to record his vote, a remark > to this effect shall be made against the said entry in Form 17A by the > presiding officer and the signature or thumb impression of the elector > shall be obtained against such remark. > > http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/cer1.htm > > There is no mention of -none of the above-. > > Furthermore a wiki entry on Section 49-O, cautions about a -disqualification > hoax- floating on the net. > > Please follow the url- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-O#Text_of_Rule_49-O > > Best > > Taha > > > > On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:09 AM, V Ramaswamy > wrote: > >> Election Commission wants Electronic Voting Machine options to include >> "none >> of the above". >> >> See: http://cuckooscall.blogspot.com/2008/12/vote-none-of-above.html >> ______________________________ ___________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 00:05:27 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:35:27 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-15 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271035r7dcf811fs887b0ff901142a7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030829/main1.htm Article 356 to be used only with safeguards Inter-State Council arrives at consensus Satish Misra and Ehsan Fazili Tribune News Service Srinagar, August 28, 2003 The Inter-State Council meeting, which concluded here today, chalked out a road-map for country's cooperative federalism as it paved the way for an action plan on good governance including a multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) and evolved a consensus for preventing the "misuse" of Article 356. Addressing newspersons after the conclusion of the two-day meeting, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr L.K. Advani, said it was decided that Article 356 should be used as a measure of "last resort" and not as an initial preference . Mr Advani announced that since the work of the council with regard to the recommendation of the Sarkaria Commission had been wrapped up, it had been decided that the forum of the Inter-State Council should, hereafter, be utilised for sorting out important issues of cooperative federalism and socio-economic concerns. Mr Advani said that Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee was soon going to appoint a sub-committee of Chief Ministers to prepare a blueprint for the action plan on good governance which would be discussed at the next meeting of the council. For consolidating the ongoing economic liberalisation process, the meeting was informed that a draft Bill to amend the Contract Labour (Regulation and Abolition) Act, 1970 would soon be brought before Parliament. Summarising the discussions on the subject, Mr Advani stated that since the trend was in favour of the transfer of subjects relating to labour laws from the Concurrent List to the State List, it had been decided that an Inter-Ministerial Standing Committee would be established to expeditiously clear amendments on labour laws being proposed by various state governments. The meeting agreed to retain Articles 256 and 257 as no proclamation under Article 356 had been issued based on Article 365. Regarding 'emergency provisions', the council observed that the safeguards contained in the Bommai judgement were adequate to prevent the misuse of Article 356 and it was decided that the Union Government would take steps to ensure that essential features of the Bommai judgement were suitably incorporated in the Constitution. The meeting accepted that the Governor's report would hereafter be a "speaking document" which would transparently give reasons and causes for the imposition of President's rule in the state. Rejecting the view that since Article 356 already existed, Article 365 had become redundant, the council took note that no consultation with the state government before deploying Union Armed Forces in that state suo motu would be possible. However, in other circumstances, it would be desirable to have consultation with the state government, as recommended by the Sarkaria Commission, wherever feasible, even though it was not obligatory. The meeting also accepted the commission's recommendation for the introduction of a system of interchange of the officers among the Union and State Armed Police Forces. The council, however, was of the opinion that large-scale transfer of officers may not be feasible. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 00:07:32 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:37:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-16 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271037y19d983dcnf1da6c5862808b09@mail.gmail.com> http://pib.nic.in/release/rel_print_page.asp?relid=530 Tuesday, December 30, 2003 STRENGTHENING MEASURES FOR MAINTAINING INTERNAL SECURITY IN THE COUNTRY AND TACKLING INSURGENCY PROBLEM IN THE NORTH-EAST WAS ON THE HIGH AGENDA OF THE GOVERNMENT DURING THE YEAR Multi-Purpose National Identity Cards: The Government during the year launched a pilot project for issuing Multi-Purpose National Identity Cards to citizens. The project was launched in a few selected sub-districts in various districts of 13 States namely Jammu & Kashmir, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Uttaranchal, Uttar Pradesh, Assam, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Tripura, Goa, Tamil Nadu, Pondicherry and Delhi. The pilot project initiated in April 2003 is likely to be completed in a year's time covering approximately a population of 29 lakhs. Then onwards the MNIC project will be taken up on a country-wide basis for the entire population. This will also facilitate preparation of a National Register of Citizens. The Centre has also asked the states to launch a special drive for detecting and deporting foreign nationals over staying in India. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 00:10:28 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:40:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-17 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271040u34349a46j3e2151421d1573f6@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=36815036 The Times of India Govt to remain firm on illegal migrants: Advani 8 Feb 2003, 0329 hrs IST, TNN NEW DELHI: The government's decision to identify and deport the estimated 1.5 lakh illegal Bangladeshis living in India had come about only after an understanding on the issue was arrived at between the Centre and the state governments , Deputy Prime Minister Advani has said. Though some quarters see the BJP's political agenda in the government's step, Advani explained on Friday that the government was able to effectively take up this issue because the states too were supporting the Centre. Stating that earlier some states like West Bengal were not very cooperative, "now they too have realised" the burden on their economy caused by the entry of illegal immigrants from the neighbouring country, Advani said. He said that it was the firm stand of the government which had compelled the Bangladesh government to take back the 213 Bangladeshis whom the Border Security Force had intercepted on the Indo-Bangla border in West Bengal's Coochbehar district on January 31. He indicated that government would continue to be firm on this issue and may even harden its stand on several issues where national security was at stake. To this end, the Union home ministry has convened a day-long conference of chief ministers on Saturday to discuss internal security. The border problem will be taken up for a detailed discussion at the conference to be inaugurated by PM Vajpayee, official sources said. Other issues like the multipurpose national identity cards scheme, left-wing extremism, coastal area security, police reforms and modernisation of state police forces, will also be taken up during the deliberations. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 00:59:34 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:29:34 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Regarding the notion of signifier and signified. References: <65be9bf40812271017v243f89c0m734049ef1eeb3421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Taha. No matter how much I want to keep my identity to myself, the government has ways to know it. I don't want to pay tax to the government as I know that it is not properly used. But can I help it? That luxury is available to some but not to all. Think about the species close to extinct, those that have been identified have a slim chance of being made protected by law, if they have not been identified, even that chance is not there.A poor person can be tossed from here to there (like Muslims in the name of being Bangla Deshis) but if you have identity between an individual sign to the entire structure, it becomes difficult. No matter what communal mindset of Javed says, my, not a Muslim, heart goes to Kasab, he is nobody's responsibility, he belongs nowhere. An India might face the same fate in future. As long as my identity is available in some electronic databases available to (say judiciary or such other agency that can be considered more or less fair) one can say that I am x's responsibility. Again, no matter how much I want to, my identity is not sacred or secret now. If I make some efforts I can most of the details that matter about Taha Mahmood. So sharing of your identity cannot be a sufficient reason for opposing such a move. Identity is itself a bourgeois concept. I think the prolitariat has a lot to get from such an identity card. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "taraprakash" Cc: "Sarai" Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Regarding the notion of signifier and signified. > Dear Taraprakash, > > Thank you for your mail. > > You wrote- > I just wanted to maintain that it doesn't >> have to be a private firm issuing the cards. > > I feel that it is highly unlikely that given the times we live in, the > Indian government can conduct such a grand exercise like issuing > identity documents to almost one billion people without the help of > private sector. The private sector will share a major portion of > responsibilities insofar as the production or manufacturing of the > cards is concerned and will perhaps share minor responsibilities as > far as distribution and maintenance is concerned. I say this from my > first hand conversations with various officials from the office of the > Registrar General and by following news stories posted on the web > regarding MNIC in the last three years. > > We do not know the exact nature of the involvement of private sector. > The primary reason being no such information is publicly available. > The only way we can make a conjecture regarding the scale of > involvement of private sector is by surveying technology related trade > journals and by closing watching the graphs of scrips of publicly > listed companies. We do know that the semi conductor division of > Philips called NXP, the Tata Consultancy Services and Bartonics, a > Radio Frequency Identification chip manufacturing firm based in > Hyderabad, have emerged as the main players. We also know that a Delhi > based firm called Shonkh Technologies was also involved in the > beginning. Shonkh Technologies unfortunately had to reconsider its > bidding options with respect to MNIC because of a Supreme Court > injunction which debarred its scrip to be traded. I also believe that > Shonkh Technologies was blacklisted by SEBI. > > I think if the Government of India wants all of us to have a National > Identity Card and they have a policy in place and they have a time > line to follow to insure that such a card gets delivered then I do not > think that what you and I or few people on this list say or write will > have any bearing on that. I think if such a card is introduced then I > will have also have one. > > Now having said that, the question then remains for us is Can we as > citizens of this country articulate the issue of documented individual > identity beyond the media inspired format of questioning, for > instance- Do we need a National Identity Card? Well 89% percent of our > viewers think that we do. And Sagarika smiles!! Before tossing the > Question of the Day to her Experts. > > I think we can and it need not be dependent on expert knowledge. It > can be as commonsensical as you deem it to be. > > All we have to do is to ask [?] > > Basic and Fundamental questions. And search for their answers. > > For instance if the National Identity Card is going to be an > individual identity document then we can begin our inquiry by asking > say for instance- > > What Constitutes the identity of a person? > > According to you it is the relationship between the signifier and > signified. Like you there are few more people out there who have > invested some part of their time thinking about the notion of > identity. > > There is Rene Descartes, for instance, who believes that identity is > subject to ones consciousness of ones mind. He believes that there is > a duality between the mind and the body. And that identity is nothing > but the faculty to locate the self in consciousness. In other words > identity is the act of knowing we we are which must be independent of > the our bodily organs, including the brain. Descartes of course makes > a distinction between the brain which is material and immaterial > elements like the mind. > > Leibeniz on the other hand presents a very simple notion regarding > identity, that is, he avers that identity is a numerical entity. Given > the apparent simplicity of this notion many people are charmed by it. > Leibeniz thinks that if X is identical to Y, then whatever is true of > X must be true of Y and vice versa. > > In direct opposition to quantitative or numerical identity is > qualitative identity, where although x is as same as y because they > belong to the same type but they are not numerically identical. For > instance a tiger from Bengal will be qualitatively similar to a tiger > from Gir insofar as both are tigers but they will not be numerically > similar. > > Furthermore identity is imagined in time or temporal dimensions, which > is called Synchronic Identity, for instance Manmohan Singh the Prime > Minister of India in 2008 is syn-chronically identical to Manmohan > Singh in 2006. > > Opposed to Synchronic identity is Dichronic identity. For instance, > Ram played hockey with his friend Yuvraj when is was young was the > SAME Ram who played Chess with Saleem when he was young. Here one and > the same person is imagined in different stages of time. > > To add to these views is metaphor of Ship of Theseus wherein the > argument is, if different parts of the ship are changed over period of > time to such an extent that all parts are changed over the period of > the time then would it be the same ship. So for instance, if > biologically speaking our body is constantly renewing and discarding > cells then are we the same person as we claim to be. Can we be > absolutely sure that there is no difference between us when we are > mere foetus, to when we were crawling, to when we young adults, to > when we became adults? If there is some difference and our self > perception was different then how can we be characterized as same > person? > > The premise in any argument related to an Identity card is that we are > same people with the same body and same brain, that there is a > physical continuity over period of time. Is this premise valid? > > John Locke, maintained that identity is a function of memory. That > personal identity is a criteria of memory. The possession of an > uninterrupted flow of self conscious awareness. > > Then there are other narratives of identity which relate to identity > as sameness and identity as selfhood. > > Paul Ricoeur maintains that idem is the Latin root which corresponds > to identity as sameness. And ipse corresponds to identity as selfhood. > Ricoeur also suggests that identity shares a distinct relationship > with character that is, character which is a set of distinctive marks > which permits the re-identification of a human individual as being the > same. > > These are few ways in which identity have been imagined in the past. > Now given this we can think aloud about how has the Government of > India imagined identity? or What are the reasons which the officials > of the Registrar General have put forth to map us? Are those reasons > reasonable? If so how? We need to know them because they concern us? > If the Indian Government asks me share my personal details with them, > then, I would do it, unhesitatingly, because, I trust them, because at > the end of the day it is my Government too but at the same time I > would like to engage anyone who is interested in telling me as to how > has the current dispensation imagined individual identity? Is this > imagination just? Will it be justly used? > > Warm Regards > > Taha > > N.B: All the above definitions of identity are gleaned from three > sources. They are- Critique of Pure Reason by John Locke, Discourse on > Method and Meditations on First Philosophy by Rene Descartes and The > Princely Impostor by Partha Charterjee Chapter VIII, The Identity > Puzzle, pp 115-129 > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/27/08, taraprakash wrote: >> Dear all and Taha. As I said in my earlier mail that I am not speaking as >> an >> expert in this matter. Your claims are, I am sure, based on research and >> my >> assertions are based on what I think a common sense approach. >> >> My reference to US was not to argue that since US has such a system in >> place, India too must go for it. I just wanted to maintain that it >> doesn't >> have to be a private firm issuing the cards. >> It is in country like ours that we have to prove our identity to >> demonstrate >> that we belong to the country we were born in. As I stated in an earlier >> mail that sometimes people have to prove that they are actually not dead >> or >> that their signifiers have been misappropriated by their relatives. I >> also >> said earlier that one multipurpose identity card (may be a passport >> issued >> at birth) can make all other identity cards redundant. But since I have >> all >> this andd I have nothing new to add, I must not waste the time of the >> list. >> Thanks for reading. >> Regards From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 03:30:08 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:00:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Message-ID: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering agencies. Please read the story below for more. Best Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms The Times of India. Nagpur Edition In RTO, a licence for corruption 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at the regional transport office (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory driving test. However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very much had the original licence. When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression counter for early processing of cases." I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a worrying factor." There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. Scary, isn't it? (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 06:35:42 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:05:42 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual discourse these days. Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to outrightly reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make fake passports and driving licences but still the driving license and passport regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, as far as I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe it is safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such an identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence of the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption > Dear Taraprakash, > > I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering > agencies. Please read the story below for more. > > Best > > Taha > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms > The Times of India. Nagpur Edition > In RTO, a licence for corruption > 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN > > > In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at > the regional transport office > (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two > driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The > second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the > then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory > driving test. > > However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have > failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption > continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been > virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many > number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. > > In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in > Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven > truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving > licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO > office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I > could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very > much had the original licence. > > When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a > tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had > lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police > complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he > said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a > duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. > > The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, > it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go > through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after > paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of > forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card > fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression > counter for early processing of cases." > > I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave > him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked > me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to > load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly > works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. > > The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite > promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get > me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. > > Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and > that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The > broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman > clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, > "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." > However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next > day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the > duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. > I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a > worrying factor." > > There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences > to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a > duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. > Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India > flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports > on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. > > Scary, isn't it? > > (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 28 15:05:37 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:35:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gaza Massacre Message-ID: <11513878.1230456938145.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello people - a quick look at: http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=49933&s2=27 sends wave after wave of anguish, and you simply have to wonder - what do the Israeli's think this will do? As with the Mumbai attacks, one can see an asymmetric response: massive casualties within a framework of comprehensive 'retaliation' acts as a justification for the nation state. I tend to see these kinds of tit-for-tat scenarios as a kind of brushfire war with no end in sight. One can only wonder what the end result will be. When you look at Ireland (another war torn, occupied, and divided country), or places like Colombia (which has a much weaker nation state infrastructure than Israel), you can see some kind of resolution. But with Israel, it simply seems that a state of permanent warfare just short of all out conflict, is the basis of every day life. What a world... With the Mumbai attacks central questions remained: why? Who? What? There was no one to lash out at in retaliation (yet).The main actors remain at the edge of ambiguity. With the Gaza attacks, the state is the principal actor. State-terror is the essential component - again, with no end in sight. To send a signal of eternal occupation and to remain in a permanent state of war only leads to an eternal demand for peace. No resolution, no sense of clarity. Paul The Gaza Massacre Four Items 1) Arabs Plan Emergency Summit 2) The Gaza Massacre in Sound & Sight 3) South African Trade Unions Condemn Attack 4) West Bank Protests Call for Palestinian Unity (1) Arabs are seeking an emergency summit: US does not call on Israeli forces to stop Palestine News Network - PNN December 27, 2008 http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4299&Itemid=1 Cairo The Arab League, Jordan and Egypt are among those issuing urgent condemnations of the Israeli air strikes that killed 195 people in the Gaza Strip on Saturday and said it would continue its efforts to 'restore calm.' Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is holding Israel responsible for the tens of dead and wounded in today's air attacks. 'Egypt has condemned the Israeli military aggression on the Gaza Strip.' Egypt issued a warning to the Israeli administration against further attacks on the Gaza Strip saying the repercussions would be severe. The European Union called on Saturday for an immediate cease in the Gaza Strip, while Javier Solana EU Foreign Policy Chief said, 'We are deeply concerned by the events in Gaza.' The United States urged Israel on Saturday to 'avoid civilian casualties in air strikes on the Gaza Strip.' The US also said Hamas must control the armed resistance and stop projectile launches. The US did not call for an end to the Israeli air attacks and referred to Hamas of engaging in 'terrorist activities.' Amr Mousa, the Secretary General of the League of Arab States, said that Arab foreign ministers will hold an emergency meeting in Cairo on Sunday or Monday to take a unified stand against the Israeli raids killed 195 people at least in Gaza. The Arab League referred to the Israeli raids as a "massacre." The League demanded the United Nations Security Council to take immediate action to 'stop the Israeli crimes against the Palestinian people.' (2) The Gaza Massacre in Sound and Sight http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=49933&s2=27 (3) COSATU condemns Israeli assault on Gaza December 27, 2008 http://www.cosatu.org.za/ The Congress of South African Trade Unions vehemently condemns today's murderous Israeli attack on the people of Palestine, when Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters killed at least 155 people and wounded around 200 more in Gaza. It is reported that in Gaza City the dead and wounded lay scattered on the ground after more than 30 airstrikes destroyed several security compounds, including two where Hamas was hosting graduation ceremonies for new recruits. Today's death toll is even worse than on the five-day Israeli offensive in March, which killed more than 120 people. It is the highest loss of life in a single day in more than 20 years. And yet the Israeli government says that today's attack is 'just the beginning' of their offensive against the people of Gaza! Among the dead, according to medical workers' reports, are police chief, Tawfiq Jabber, the head of Hamas's security and protection unit, and the governor of central Gaza. Contrary to the Israeli claim that it had only targeted "terrorist infrastructure", TV footage clearly shows wounded children being carried to hospital. Yet again civilians are bearing the brunt of the bombings and shootings. COSATU endorses the view of Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, that this Israeli air campaign was "criminal" and backs his call for the international community to intervene. The federation reaffirms more strongly than ever its demand that Israel must immediately withdraw all occupation forces from Gaza and end the occupation of all Palestinian land. It must abide by international human rights law, and refrain from imposing collective punishment on Palestinian civilians (as per the UN Human Rights Council declaration issued on 6 July 2006), which it has blatantly contravened today. All workers and freedom-loving people of South Africa and the world should intensify the boycott of Israeli goods. COSATU reiterates its call for the government of South Africa to break diplomatic ties with Apartheid Israel and institute sanctions against it until it ends its 40 years of military occupation of Palestine and recognise the people's right to sovereignty and self- determination. Patrick Craven (National Spokesperson) Congress of South African Trade Unions (4) Protests Call for Palestinian Unity AlJazeera.net December 27, 2008 http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20081227122748912382.html Palestinians in the West Bank have demonstrated for unity between the rival factions, Fatah and Hamas, after Israeli air attacks on the Gaza Strip killed more than 155 people and wounded 200 others. Hundreds of Palestinians gathered in the centre of Ramallah in the West Bank on Saturday, some carrying banners reading: "We will not forget you, Gaza." The Israeli bombardment also sparked rallies across the Arab world, including in Amman, the capital of Jordan, and Damascus in Syria. Hezbollah, the Lebanese movement which fought a 33-day war against Israel in the summer of 2006, called for a demonstration in the southern suburbs of the Lebanese capital, Beirut, later on Saturday. Nour Odeh, Al Jazeera's correspondent in neighbouring Jordan, said: "This is probably one of the most violent Israeli air campaigns against Gaza." "Politically speaking, this is devastating... We can see people in Ramallah coming out on the streets, calling on the leaderships in the Palestinian territories to unite, and set aside their differences knowing that that will be difficult, as it has been for the past year and a half. "It will certainly be very embarrassing for Mahmoud Abbas [the Palestinian president], who is engaged in a peace process with Israel, trying to convince a very sceptical public that a political process with Israel can yield results while these bombs are raining on Gaza. "Yasser Abed, an adviser to Abbas speaking in the West Bank said: "In this moment we express our solidarity with all the victims of this aggression. "And we call for an immediate halt and ending of this aggression against the Gaza Strip. "Our leadership and our government are taking measures now in order to help the victims of the aggression." Abbas said he was in "urgent contact" with numerous countries over the raids. Salam Fayyad, the Palestinian prime minister in the West Bank, said: "I strongly condemn the Israeli military attack on the Gaza Strip and demand its immediate end. "I am making a series of calls to try to stop the Israeli attack and have called an emergency cabinet meeting." The meeting is to be held at 1300GMT in Ramallah. The Palestinian ministry of health in Ramallah called on its employees to immediately head to government hospitals in the Gaza Strip to help, following statements from Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, saying that the operation "will last as long as necessary". Regional condemnation Amr Moussa, the secretary-general of the Arab League, said that Arab foreign ministers would be meeting in the Egyptian capital either on Sunday or Monday to take a common position on the raids. Moussa told reporters that Libya, the only Arab country on the UN Security Council, would also be seeking an urgent meeting of the council. "It will take a joint Arab position on what is happening and at the same time agree on the steps to be taken," he said. Egypt condemned Israel's raids and said it would keep trying to restore a truce between Israel and Gaza. A presidential statement quoted by the MENA news agency said Egypt held Israel responsible for the deaths and injuries that result from the raids. "Egypt will continue its contacts to prepare an atmosphere conducive to restoring the period of calm and achieving reconciliation between the Palestinian groups." Ahmed Abu Ghait, the Egyptian foreign minister, summoned the Israeli ambassador to express Egypt's rejection to the attacks. Egypt called publicly for restraint by both sides on Thursday when Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, came to Cairo for talks with Hosni Mubarak, the Egyptian president. International condemnation Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, is also calling for an immediate ceasefire. "We are very concerned at the events in Gaza," he said. "We call for an immediate ceasefire and urge everybody to exert maximum restraint." For his part, Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, called for an immediate halt to the "escalation". "The President of the Republic ... strongly condemns the irresponsible provocations which led to this situation as well as the disproportionate use of force," the Elysee Palace said. The statement added that there was "no military solution in Gaza" and called for the "conclusion of a lasting truce". A statement from the Russian foreign ministry said: "Russia believes it is necessary to halt immediately the large-scale acts of force against the Gaza Strip, which have already caused considerable victims and suffering amongst the Palestinian population. "At the same time, we call on the leadership of Hamas to stop firing rocket on Israeli territory," it said, adding that the most important priority now was for the parties to restore a truce. Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for Hamas in Gaza, said: "Today is a holocaust and a massacre day, that Tzipi Livni had publicly campaigned on the regional and international level so she can commit to this Holocaust and this massacre. "This is a group massacre for our Palestinian people in Gaza." From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 16:43:12 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:43:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] she is a living child: 2009 Message-ID: <47e122a70812280313u78f21554raa3099911c708237@mail.gmail.com> http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com Dear All Happy New Year. But how to say it ? As an artist, just to be one amongst all of us, I usually try to do an image or so during such occasions, but the Artist of the year, I believe, is Muntazer Al-Zaidi, and the image of the year is 'A Shoe on Bush Image'. He has millions of admirers all over the world, and he has certainly given us a new symbol, which is not only new but significant in many ways. Terrorists need to learn what a simple, spontaneous throwing of a shoe can achieve a hundred bomb blasts can't even dream about. In the present political scenario, the politicians too need to realize that how unwanted they have become. But that was 2008. In 2009, most of the world's sad and grim realities will simply refuse to go away, and this is where 'anger' if any, has to express thoughtfully, perhaps more creatively. This I am reminding to myself as well, since we all know that a large part of the enemy is 'within'. I am thinking of Ajmal Kasab, the lone Mumbai terrorist arrested, and I ask myself, who is he ? Before we demand his nationality, we perhaps need to know if he is a human being in the first place? The answer is a big NO, but ah, if he had ever met Muntazer sahib of Iraq, things would have been different, both for him and for all of us. Unfortunately, in absence of master artist like Muntazer Al Zaidi there is no dearth of so called masters who brain-wash these young energetic and sincere minds to create ugliness. It is all sad. Now, we have to read in the morning newspapers, 'War Hysteria' between India and Pakistan. So, not only Pakistan refuses to hand over the list of such individuals, but has found Taliban's support timely. The same Taliban who have imposed restriction for Education to Girls in Swat Valley. Now how to question India's Defence Minister who said that to tackle 'terrorism' 'all the options' are open. That indeed includes 'War'. So, even those Pakistani minds who detested Kasab immediately after the Mumbai carnage, repainted there opinions with Patriotic colours. Here, a Mumbai politician, like Bal Thackery openly praise Indira Gandhi for the 1971 divide of Pakistan , and not only demands a repetition of that act, but a public execution of this young boy named Kasab. Now, how this 'free for all' situation is helping an average individual, whether living in India or in Pakistan? There is lot to write about such events, but I believe it is better to listen more than to speak without thought. Few days back I happened to listen wonderful Malalai Joya, Former Member of the Parliament ( Wolesi Jirga ) invited by Amnesty India international. Besides her social work and first hand experience of Afghanistan, she told the following outside the auditorium: One day she was travelling in Train in Madrid and a man almost fell in love with her, who asked for her visiting card, which she gave him. The same one she gave me or everybody else, but moments later he returned her the card with a request to return his card. The reason is that he was an Israeli, and he feared his own intelligence. We all laughed. Her email is mj at malalaijoya.com please convey her new year greetings. At the Amnesty meet, the other artist of the year at French Alliance Auditorium was Ghazi Hussein of Palestine. He performed his poem 'next visit' which shook everybody in the audience. He was arrested by Israeli police at the young age of 17 and was tortured for 29 months in the prison. He told many terrible tales from his experience from Prison, and gave me his collection of poems. The performed poem is here under: Next Visit Mother, next visit bring me logic with no lies, Smuggle me freedom in your eyes, Or a language that has been understood Because I am confused in which language I should cry. Mother, next visit bring me hope Ask the full hidden moon how I can cope, In this darkness where the tide of oppression runs so hig I am like a fledging without food, without wings to fly. Mother, my cell is small than my size My body like a question mark, a river on a map, Completely dry. Mother, prison has made me less than myself Each day more than once I die. ( Ghazi Hussein translated from Arabic by Allison Davis . Email ) Back in Delhi, these days I am working with few homeless families living under a Metro Station. One such man living there is named Bashir and his son-in-law is named Deepak. Unlike Inder Salim, they don't carry a secular agenda on their fragile shoulders, but the situation is so grim that religious identity is hardly of any significance. They have to struggle for every meal, and every night they live under their make shift tents which police dismantles every now and then. They usually buy cheap butcher's waste, such as chicken fleece, their feet and heads, to cook with fallen twigs. They make balloons for children and sell for their daily survival. I saw their children playing with dust, but not for some earthy growth but to end up as anything, may be future terrorists, or drug traffickers, or thieves or anything terrible? On this new year eve I share some of the images of these children living in Delhi. Yes, from here, there is no way to convey them Happy New Year, but, please click http://sheisalivingchild.blogspot.com and http://childrenofmotherearthcome.blogspot.com with love and regards inder salim -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From lists at shivamvij.com Sun Dec 28 18:31:10 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:31:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Oranges in Kashmir Message-ID: <1fd66c110812280501h5d4bfd9bp57aed64a405b40e5@mail.gmail.com> Since June this year we saw the expression of anti-Indian sentiment running deep and wide in the Valley, noticed even by the United Nations Secretary General. But at the same time, it appears that secretly, suddenly and quite strangely people's patriotism for India was undergoing a re-awakening! This can be the only plausible explanation (other than IB engineering) for J&K having a higher ratio of candidates-to-electorate than even Delhi. 751 candidates in Kashmir and 603 in Jammu and Ladakh, meant 0.02% of the electorate was contesting. In the Delhi assembly polls, this was 0.005%. 1354 is twice the number of candidates in the 2002 elections in J&K (709) and roughly two and a half times the contestants in the 1996 (547), 1987 (528) and 1983 (512) elections. So in a year when anti-India sentiment was widely acknowledged to be the highest since 1989, the number of people in the Valley who wanted to dearly contest Indian elections increased manifold! The surprises do not stop here. More here: http://kafila.org/2008/12/27/oranges-in-kashmir-2008-elections-from-a-kashmiri-bloggers-perspective/ From lists at shivamvij.com Sun Dec 28 20:14:02 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:14:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck" In-Reply-To: References: <1fd66c110812240325k69e2da57h3206c3bce170f8e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1fd66c110812280644yab31215l565d818b057da02b@mail.gmail.com> Who shot who down for contesting? Please clarify On 12/25/08, taraprakash wrote: > I am sure it is better to bribe people to make them contest in the elections > for a democracy than to shoot them down for contesting. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shivam V" > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 6:25 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] "Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck" > > > > > > Mail Today E-Paper: Samata men rake up ' IB candidate' muck > > > > This page was sent to you by: mail at shivamvij.com > > > > November 16, 2008 > > Samata men rake up 'IB candidate' muck > > > > By Parvaiz Bukhari in Srinagar > > > > SEVEN Samata Party ( SP) candidates in the Jammu and Kashmir elections > > accused on Tuesday their party leadership of " luring them with money" > > to contest the polls at the behest of " intelligence agencies". Their > > statement (MAIL TODAY has recorded it) adds fuel to the recent > > controversy that the huge voter turnout in the last six phases of the > > seven- tier polls was stagemanaged by intelligence agencies. > > > > SP has fielded 14 candidates in the state, 13 of them from Kashmir and > > one from Jammu ( Vijaypur). > > > > The seven, who made the allegation, are living in Royal Palace hotel > > near Dalgate under tight security provided by the government. > > > > The SP candidates said their mission was to bring out " committed > > voters", but they decided to blow the lid since the money promised to > > them was not delivered. > > > > The SP's state president M. Y. Naikoo approached Wali Mohammad Khan, > > who since 1978 was the chief organiser of the Congress Seva Dal in > > Kashmir until elections were announced. Naikoo " promised" Khan Rs 5 > > lakh to contest from the sensitive Amirakadal segment. > > > > "He ( Naikoo) told me that half the money would be paid before filing > > the nomination and the other half immediately after that. But nothing > > has been given so far," Khan said on the eve of the last phase of > > polls. > > > > "Naikoo is absconding and I suspect he is also an IB ( intelligence > > bureau) agent, like those who have fielded so many independent > > candidates," he alleged. > > > > The allegations combined with others of direct and indirect coercion > > by Army in some areas during the six phases may not explain the record > > voter turnout. It is also a reality that people in Kashmir have defied > > the separatists' poll boycott call. > > > > National Conference president Omar Abdullah have indirectly raised > > doubts over the number of Independent candidates - 468 in total - in > > the polls. " Delhi is dividing people by putting up Independents from > > every nook and cranny in Kashmir," he said. > > > > "I wanted to stand in the election. But when I saw some people, who > > for years have been working for IB, jumping into the fray, I took a > > step back," said a young politician, corroborating Abdullah's fears. > > > > Khan is not alone in the confession box. There are three others in his > > group - Nazir Ahmed, Mohammad Altaf and Gurmeet Singh - who made > > similar damning revelations. But they differ in their approach to deal > > with their worries. > > > > Khan is now worried he too would be " perceived" by his supporters as > > an IB agent, which could spell trouble for him in Kashmir. > > > > The state's chief electoral officer B. R. Sharma said Naikoo should > > respond to the allegations. He said the party is not registered in the > > state but " the election commission has allowed these candidates the > > privilege to use the party symbol". The candidates said " Jitender > > Biduri, the SP general secretary, came to the hotel and promised Rs 5 > > lakh to each of us in the presence of Naikoo". Biduri denied the > > allegations. > > > > "All of them have joined the party voluntarily," he said. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- mail at shivamvij dot com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 20:35:31 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:05:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption In-Reply-To: <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280705k53c1f1oea88d80b9ebc5395@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this space. And there is no harm in talking about it. Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one. Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a token really, certifying who we are? Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves but histories of our families? Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort? Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the history of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps have a more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems inevitable isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one. Warm regards Taha On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem of > the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on this > list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual > discourse these days. > Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to outrightly > reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make fake > passports and driving licences but still the driving license and passport > regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, as far as > I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe it is > safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such an > identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence of > the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. > > Regards > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" < > 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption > > > Dear Taraprakash, >> >> I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering >> agencies. Please read the story below for more. >> >> Best >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms >> The Times of India. Nagpur Edition >> In RTO, a licence for corruption >> 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN >> >> >> In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at >> the regional transport office >> (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two >> driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The >> second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the >> then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory >> driving test. >> >> However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have >> failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption >> continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been >> virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many >> number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. >> >> In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in >> Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven >> truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving >> licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO >> office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I >> could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very >> much had the original licence. >> >> When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a >> tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had >> lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police >> complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he >> said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a >> duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. >> >> The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, >> it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go >> through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after >> paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of >> forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card >> fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression >> counter for early processing of cases." >> >> I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave >> him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked >> me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to >> load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly >> works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. >> >> The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite >> promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get >> me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. >> >> Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and >> that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The >> broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman >> clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, >> "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." >> However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next >> day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the >> duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. >> I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a >> worrying factor." >> >> There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences >> to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a >> duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. >> Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India >> flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports >> on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. >> >> Scary, isn't it? >> >> (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 21:20:36 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> <65be9bf40812280705k53c1f1oea88d80b9ebc5395@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6578604F4AC74E32B735ABF92D432610@tara> Dear Taha and all. You have raised very valid questions in your mail. "Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves but histories of our families?" I wish I could answer those questions. In an ideal society all this should not be the case, but we are not living in an ideal universe. A friend of mine from Pakistan has many anecdotes about his amnesiac grand father. He had 24 sons. To differentiate his sons from other kids in the neighborhood, he had got tatooed the names on their hands. I wish the modern states were not as large as they are now. But since we are, I believe all the children need to remind our amnesiac father that they too belong to the family and therefore, need being provided for. Yes sadly we have reached in the state of "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my identity" ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this space. And there is no harm in talking about it. Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one. Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a token really, certifying who we are? Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves but histories of our families? Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort? Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the history of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps have a more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems inevitable isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one. Warm regards Taha On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash wrote: Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual discourse these days. Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to outrightly reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make fake passports and driving licences but still the driving license and passport regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, as far as I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe it is safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such an identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence of the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Dear Taraprakash, I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering agencies. Please read the story below for more. Best Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms The Times of India. Nagpur Edition In RTO, a licence for corruption 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at the regional transport office (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory driving test. However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very much had the original licence. When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression counter for early processing of cases." I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a worrying factor." There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. Scary, isn't it? (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:26:30 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:56:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Regarding the notion of signifier and signified. In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40812271017v243f89c0m734049ef1eeb3421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280756u4af1f6b5me5b541f17aadd011@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. I think as legitimate Citizens of a country don't you feel that it is our duty to give to Government what it legitimately asks from us? Don't you think that it is unlawful to hide what is lawfully required from us, like tax for instance? I feel it is our obligation to give taxes as it is our obligation to expect just distribution of the money. If we feel that that disbursement is not just then I think our democracy allows us a discursive space to talk about it. Hence, if our government asks us to submit data regarding our identities, then we should do that unhesitatingly but at the same time as responsible citizens we must ask questions as what is being done with respect to that data? How is that data collected? Is the process of collection of that data just? What are problems or issues that the government has so far encountered with the collection of that data? How is the government thinking of resolving those issues? Insofar as the question of poor benefiting from an identity document is concerned, then can you please give me a precedent where we have a clear cost benefit analysis as to the success of such a scheme? For instance, it would be indeed a relief to read about a country in this world wherein the poor of that nation have been able to un-clutch themselves from poverty primarily because they have a digital identity card. I think economists all over must be very interested in reading about it. Furthermore I think that you are absolutely right when you suggest that some sort of judicial agency must be the sole custodians of our identity but I feel that for that to happen we need to pass some constitutional amendments to make Judiciary accountable for our identities. Collection of information related to individuals comes under the Registrar General of India. This department comes under Ministry of Home Affairs. Don't you feel that perhaps your suggestion is a bit far fetched. For the Judiciary is already reeling under backlog of thousands of cases. And I would like to know that what makes you think that Judiciary in India absolutely trustworthy. I think we must leave all these procedural issues to those who are equipped to deal with them. I certainly do not have either any power or an understanding insofar as thinking about logistics of this exercise is concerned. What I know is that as a citizen it is my obligation to ask basic questions about the proposed National identity Card. I am interested in talking about this seeming co-relationship between the issuance of an identity card and stabilization of the idea of identity. Will this national identity card be able to stabilize my identity? What will this card do that other cards have claimed and not done? How will this card be not similar to other identity cards? Warm regards Taha On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 7:29 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Hi Taha. No matter how much I want to keep my identity to myself, the > government has ways to know it. I don't want to pay tax to the government > as > I know that it is not properly used. But can I help it? That luxury is > available to some but not to all. Think about the species close to extinct, > those that have been identified have a slim chance of being made protected > by law, if they have not been identified, even that chance is not there.A > poor person can be tossed from here to there (like Muslims in the name of > being Bangla Deshis) but if you have identity between an individual sign to > the entire structure, it becomes difficult. No matter what communal mindset > of Javed says, my, not a Muslim, heart goes to Kasab, he is nobody's > responsibility, he belongs nowhere. An India might face the same fate in > future. As long as my identity is available in some electronic databases > available to (say judiciary or such other agency that can be considered > more > or less fair) one can say that I am x's responsibility. Again, no matter > how > much I want to, my identity is not sacred or secret now. If I make some > efforts I can most of the details that matter about Taha Mahmood. So > sharing > of your identity cannot be a sufficient reason for opposing such a move. > Identity is itself a bourgeois concept. I think the prolitariat has a lot > to > get from such an identity card. > > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:47:33 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:17:33 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-18 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280817n3368f922v3fa4686c009cbc5f@mail.gmail.com> *http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=65756* *Indian Express* *Chandigarh Edition* *Wednesday, October 15, 2003 * *National drive to issue birth certificates Pawan Kumar Jain Wednesday, October 15, 2003 * *Kharar, October 14:* THE Registrar General of India-cum-Census Commissioner J.K. Banthia has announced that the Union Ministry for Home Affairs (MHA) would observe November 14-20 as Child Rights Week besides launching a national campaign to issue birth registration certificates across the country. In Kharar during his maiden visit to Birth and Death Registration office recently, Banthia said the drive, which was aimed at facilitating the national programme on preparing a multipurpose national identity cards, for which a pilot project was already underway, would continue in phases till March next year. "Directions have been issued to the state governments to decentralize the present system of issuing birth certificates, which was causing great difficulty to the applicants," said he, while disclosing that the main agenda of the Union government was to sensitise the state governments across the country to simplify the procedure of birth registration, which was the right of the citizens. Further announcing that the MHA has decided to make the birth registration system "user-friendly" and under the plan, the state governments have been asked to issue the birth registration certificates, prices of which may vary from one state to another, free of cost, Banthia, however, clarified that free birth registration certificates would be provided to the children below the age of 10 years and that also at their doorsteps. While stating that necessary directions to this effect have already been issued to all the concerned officials, including the Deputy Commissioners, across the country, he said the schoolchildren would be given the certificates at their respective schools while the anganwari workers would deliver the certificates to those children at their residence, who don't go to schools. Informing that presently, of the estimated 26 million births per annum, nearly 14.3 million births were registered and registration certificates were issued to only 10 million children born across the country every year, the Registrar General of India further stated that the system was being made "user-friendly" to achieve the target of cent per cent birth registration. "From now onwards, the state governments have been directed to issue birth registration certificates to the mothers when they are discharged from any government hospital post delivery," Banthia claimed . From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:50:14 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:20:14 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-19 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280820l1c271dc5o63274fedf495b375@mail.gmail.com> * http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2003/rnov2003/12112003/r1211200315.html PIB Press Release PRESIDENT TO LAUNCH NATIONAL CAMPAIGN ON BIRTH CERTIFICATES* ------------------------------ *12th November, 2003* A national campaign on Birth Certificates will be launched during the Child Rights Week November 14-20, 2003 to create awareness on the need of Birth Certificates for all children in the country. Birth Certificates will also be issued to children who do not have it during this weeklong campaign. The President, Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam has kindly consented to launch the campaign at a function to be held at the Rashtrapati Bhawan on November 14, 2003. During the function Birth Certificates will be distributed to selected children by the President. The registration of birth has been recognized as the right of the child by the UN Convention on Child Rights, 1989. Government of India being a signatory to this Convention is bound to ensure complete registration of all births in the country. This is considered as the first step to provide an identity to the child and hence, is also important in the context of the proposed multi-purpose National Identity Card Project. It is estimated that about one crore children among 1.4 crore that are registered every year do not get birth certificates. Approximately 10 crore children below 10 years of age do not have the birth certificates. It is therefore proposed that birth certificates will be issued to such children who do not have birth certificates during this national campaign. In the first phase of the campaign those children whose births have been registered and are living within the village/town of their birth would be targeted, as their birth must have been registered in the same village/town. In the second phase of campaign children born in places other than the village/town where they are currently staying would be targeted. This phase would involve getting the birth certificates from the place where they were born and distributed to the children. It is also proposed to cover all the children whose births have not been registered in the third phase, where the births would be registered and certificates issued. The aim of the campaign is also that the issuing of birth certificates to the children is expected to create awareness among the public about the functioning of the registration system and the child's right to get a birth certificate on registration done in time. Moreover, in the absence of complete registration of births and deaths, the country is not in a position to get estimates of indicators like Birth Rate, Death Rate, Infant Mortality Rate, etc. which are needed to prepare action plans and monitor their implementation for family planning, reducing Infant Mortality etc. The National Population Policy has set the target of achieving 100 per cent registration of births and deaths by 2010. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:52:24 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:22:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-20 Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280822r6a81eaa1xd7e0d9e6f368ec22@mail.gmail.com> * http://pib.nic.in/archieve/lreleng/lyr2003/rmar2003/20032003/r200320036.html PIB Press Release SUN MICROSYSTEM'S CHIEF CALLS ON SHRI ARUN SHOURIE* ------------------------------ *20th March, 2003* The Department of Information Technology and multi-billion US IT Company, Sun Microsystems have agreed to enhance their cooperation. The field of cooperation includes E-Governance and Networking. The American Company has offered to donate $300 million worth of free software to non-profit Indian institutions. This emerged following the Chief Executive Officer of Sun Microsystems, Mr. Scott McNealy calling on the Information Technology, Communications and Disinvestment Minister, Mr. Arun Shourie, here today. Shri Shourie said that the US multi-national IT company which has the largest directories in the world on multi-purpose Identity Cards offered to share know-how with Indian Government in the preparation of these cards. The preparation of such cards is already on in some of the States who have pursued their programme separately. To have a single standardised system of one authentication, the company has agreed to cooperate. The two sides also agreed to cooperate on the project of devising a small Personal Computer. The American MNC will work with Indian IT companies and this PC would provide access to net services. This will be affordable to common man. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:56:41 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:26:41 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] 30 lakh bogus ration cards detected in TN Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280826n17cd48bfwe6664de4486ba93e@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chennai/30_lakh_bogus_ration_cards_detected_in_TN/articleshow/2973764.cms The Times of India Chennai Edition 30 lakh bogus ration cards detected in TN 23 Apr 2008, 0410 hrs IST, T K Rohit, TNN CHENNAI: Corruption in the public distribution system is nothing new. But for the first time, the government has proof that a whopping 30 lakh - of the two crore ration cards in the state - are bogus. This works out to a more than Rs 300-crore loss for the government, about 15% of the Rs 1,900-crore food subsidy it doles out every year from the taxpayer's money. The state-run Electronics Corporation of Tamil Nadu, which has embarked on a massive e-governance exercise, was in for a shock when it began online database updation of the two crore ration card holders. The system threw up 30 lakh duplicates, C Umashankar, managing director, ELCOT, told The Times of India . Civil Supplies Department Commissioner K Rajaraman said 99,161 bogus cards had been confiscated. But ELCOT's estimate of the number of bogus cards in circulation is far higher. "We detected 30 lakh bogus cards. This means that roughly about 15 per cent of the cards in Tamil Nadu are bogus. It also means that rations worth more than Rs 300 crores are being siphoned off every year. This is a huge loss for the government," Umashankar said. Though rampant corruption in the State's fair price shops is well known, this is the first time that bogus drawals have been quantified, thanks to the online process. "While we were updating the database, we found that several consumers had the same card number. In many cases, the same application number was given to hundreds of people. This slowed down the system as we found it difficult to differentiate between genuine and bogus cards," he said. The system took out 1.2 lakh cards issued on duplicate application numbers arising out "clerical errors". "These are valid cards and we will be issuing new application numbers for them." According to ELCOT, the updation would be completed by mid-May, following which the system would go online. After this, applications for ration cards, additions or deletions of names and change of address could begin. But the mind-boggling "clean up" to weed out the 30-odd lakh bogus cards could drastically slow down the process. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Dec 28 21:59:53 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:29:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Over 20 lakh bogus yellow ration cards in State (Karnataka) Message-ID: <65be9bf40812280829k71928e40sb76807740b1b7747@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/02/stories/2005010201650400.htm Online edition of India's National Newspaper Karnataka Sunday, Jan 02, 2005 Over 20 lakh bogus yellow ration cards in State By Nagesh Prabhu BANGALORE, JAN. 1. If one goes by the statistics provided by the Food and Civil Supplies Department of the State Government, the number of people living in poverty in Karnataka is more than that in Bihar and Orissa. As many as 70.58 per cent of the families in the State have obtained yellow ration cards under the public distribution system (PDS), which means that they are below the poverty line (BPL). The figure is in contrast with the data provided by the National Sample Survey Organisation (1999-2000), which indicated that 20.04 per cent of the population lives in poverty in the State, while it is 47 per cent in Orissa and 42 per cent in Bihar. The Centre has identified 31.29 lakh families as BPL families in the State whereas the State agencies put the figure at 72.21 lakh families, as of October 2004. Bogus cards According to an official in the department, several families have obtained the yellow cards though they are above the poverty line, thus inflating the percentage of BPL cardholders. In July 2004, the department confiscated about one lakh bogus ration cards and still there are over 20 lakh bogus cards in use at present, the official said. As many as 7,19,700 families (7.03 per cent) are "poorest of the poor" and obtained Anthyodaya Anna Yojana (AAY) ration cards, while 65,01,701 families (63.54 per cent) are living below poverty line (BPL) and have received yellow ration cards, according to the official. Except in Dakshina Kananda (37.56 per cent) and Udupi (43.76 per cent) districts, the percentage of poor families is over 60 in other districts. Interestingly, over 70 per cent of the families are poor in much better off districts such as Bangalore Rural (90.31 per cent), Bangalore Urban (72.29), Chikmagalur (80.13), Mysore (71.78), Mandya (83.01) and Davangere (82.48). In fact, in 40 taluks, the percentage of poor families is between 90 and 100 per cent and more than 100 per cent in 13 taluks, going by the number of yellow cards, the official said. The Centre allots foodgrains only for 31.29 lakh families at subsidised price. The State Government purchases the requirement for the other BPL families from the Food Corporation of India at the normal issue price of the Centre. Many deprived of ration Many fair price shop owners deprive their customers of the allotted ration and sell the same in the open market. The dealers themselves are in possession of several bogus cards. In villages, people do not have enough clout to resist the fraud and many of them are not aware do not know their entitlements. The new Minister for Food and Civil Supplies, H.S. Mahadeva Prasad, has decided to order a fresh survey to detect bogus ration cards. Some families have more than one card, and gram panchayats have not identified the poor properly, says D. Rajashekar, Professor, Institute for Social and Economic Change, Bangalore, who studied the distribution of ration cards in the State. Many non-poor families have obtained yellow cards on political consideration or through corrupt ways, he said. Identification Officials in the department say that the grama sabhas should identify the eligible beneficiaries, and the gram panchayats should be empowered to appoint and dismiss ration-shop owners. There are 20,650 ration shops in the State. There is only one food inspector at the taluk level. One of the reasons attributed to the large-scale diversion of grain to the open market has been staff shortage. Subsidy to go up At present, the monthly quota of foodgrains for BPL families is 20 kg of rice and five kg of wheat at Rs. 3 a kg. The expenditure on subsidised foodgrains was Rs. 53.84 crores in 1991-92 and Rs. 262.43 crores in 2000-01. The State budget for has set aside Rs. 300 crores for this. With the cut in the price of foodgrains from Rs. 6.50 to Rs. 3, the officials estimate that over Rs. 600 crores may be required to subsidise foodgrains during the current year. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 00:25:05 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:55:05 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] 2 Years Late, Bangladesh Finally Gets Elections Message-ID: The last 2 years have been a strange trip for Bangladesh. A rude messy democracy with violent street protests, interrupted by a Army takeover on January 11, 2007 (1/11 numeromancy). The train of democracy had "fallen off the tracks" we were told, and a "heavy crane" (the Army) was needed. But heavy machinery seems to have done the proverbial chinashop damage. Now the Army is finally returning to the Barracks, and we wait to cast our vote on election day. December 29th. Back to democracy? I wrote about the failure of these Singapore politricks for Carlos Motta's project "La Buena Vida" http://shobak.org/text/WhatisD.pdf The wake-up call for the Army were the August anti-army riots of 2007, that started at Dhaka University (my half alma mater) and rippled across the country. Which decisively gave a message-- we prefer messy democracy to military rule. The Burma, Pakistan, Turkey model fell apart. The streets spoke through student power, as in 52, 68, 71 and 91. I did a project about the riots & aftermath at Dhaka Gallery Chitrak http://mobileton.wordpress.com This year, 52% of the voters are under 35, and half of them are first time voters. No one knows what they will do. I have never voted in Bangladesh. The three democratic elections after fall of the 1980s Army regime were in 91, 96, 01-- I was in America all three times. With so much at stake this time (army, islamists, regional stability, democracy project), everyone expects record turnout. But the results are up in the air. I'm off to vote in seven hours. My mother didn't get her own voter number, so I'm expecting some arguments at the polling station. I wrote a few things on the elections below. Hope you will read through to the end. It's not an "Obama election", there are many disappointments among the candidates, but with all those limitations, it's still very important for us, and for South Asia. ============================== VIDEO ============================== Two talk shows, these are in Bengali. Youth Vote Not Prisoner Of History http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/28/mohaiemen-rtv2/ Minorities, Global Competition & Mobiles http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/25/rtv/ ============================== OP-ED ============================== Don't Turn My Mobile Off http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/26/mobile/ The Secular Vote Bloc http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/ ============================== ON ETHNIC & RELIGIOUS MINORITIES ============================== Chittagong Hill Tracts: Between Ashes & Hope http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/24/election08-cht/ Hindu Bangladeshis: Citizens Not Enemies http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/12/vpa/ Defenders of Minority Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/16/minority-vote/ Chittagong Hill Tracts: The Missing Pahari Vote http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/02/cht-missing-pahari-vote/ ============================== PHOTO ============================== KONDOL: Election Graffiti Sticker Project [don't feed the monkeys] http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=66480&l=f07b6&id=636285043 JUMMA ETHNIC MINORITY On Campaign Jeep With Ujjal Sriti Chakma http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=77862&l=31b5e&id=800138297 ============================== ONGOING BLOG COVERAGE ============================== http://unheardvoice.net/blog From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Dec 29 21:19:53 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:49:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption In-Reply-To: <6578604F4AC74E32B735ABF92D432610@tara> References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> <65be9bf40812280705k53c1f1oea88d80b9ebc5395@mail.gmail.com> <6578604F4AC74E32B735ABF92D432610@tara> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812290749g7722faf7uab61078ce7ddd50c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for sharing that anecdote. I think what you say about the amnesic grandfather is pertinent just as it is pertinent to remember the profound words of our Lord Krishna, when he exhorts every one of us in Mahabharata about the significance Vasudev Kutumbkam, which of course means that in fact, insofar as this earth is concerned, we are one family. From Bible's, Torah's or Quran's perspective all of us here are children of Adam alay salam and Havva. Taking that line of argument forward one could wonder then why is it that if God made one earth for all of us, then there are so many divisions? Who are we to divide God's earth? Don't you feel that seen from the perspectives mentioned above entities like nation state and its residues like citizenship and identity seems so contrived? Don't you think the idea of a nation becomes an artificial, almost plastic, synthetic notion, if we take Lord Krishna's words as our basic premise? Even Patanjali, suggests us, again and again to go beyond Rajas and Tamas and reach the state of Sattva. Go beyond to where all forms of Buddhi (Knowledge), Anubahava (Cognition), Smriti (Memory), Prama (Truth), Aparma (Untruth), Samasya (Doubt), Tarka (Argument), Upaman (Comparison), Sabda (Testimony) are made redundant. Of course, as we all know, that for him, Purusha exists in all of us. We just need to realise Yogah Chittah Vritti Nirodah through Abhyas or practise. One sometimes wonder had we all been followers of Patanjali, this world would have been such a nice place to stay, however, dear Taraprakash, unfortunately, for you and me and everyone we live in a time where it is not so. The idea of a nation far from being contrived, is a dominant part of our reality which we have to confront and deal with on an every day basis. We are not coaxed or cajoled or pushed to remember that we are all part of the one Purusha but we are reminded of a national identity and we are asked to contribute our subjectivity to be archived in a national memory. Multiple purpose National Identity Card is just a token of our citizenship. But an important one though. You mentioned- "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my identity") A slight correction, I think, Nishani is not equal to identity. Pechan is, I think the correct word for identity and Shanakth for Identification, Shanakthi Kagaz would be Identification Papers. Nishani is more like a mark, a trace, which someone like Barthes, would deem it to be like a bit of information which is used to identify or pinpoint certain elements in time and space. The MNIC will give all us a number, which would be more like a Saussurean signifier, you know, an arbitrary sign which has netiher the resemblance nor an existential relationship to its referent. We or rather our subjectivity will be coded through an index, which will of course not resemble us but nevertheless, will have a real connection with us. Our photographs will be objectified as icons, which would claim to represent us by its similarity to us. We of course know, how successful the exercise,to issue Electronic Photo Identity Cards was. That even after eighteen long years, since they were introduced, the Government of India has successfully distributed photo Voter Identity Cards only two thirds of our population. But of course past failures must not deter us, or the fact that no where in this world had there been a model where there has been a positive co relationship between issuance of national identity cards and uplift of the poor or a negative co relationship between the issuance of a national identity card and complete extinction of illegitimate citizens must stop us. As you rightly suggested, that an amnesic grandfather requires his brood to be marked. I think we also need to ask this question to ourselves. Why do we need a Nishani (Mark) to identify ourselves to that man whom we call our grandfather? We know who he is, don't we? We know that we are his children's children? Maybe that grandfather of your friend was resourceful enough, rich enough to afford the price of branding all his grand children. Ideally we would all like our grandfather to be rich don't we. But dear Taraprakash, we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a real world where not all grandfathers are that rich. That some times the most pressing need for a grandfather is to take care of his grandchildren. See to it that they are clothed, that they are fed, that they are educated, that they have a future to look forward to, so that they can proudly go out there in this world and swear allegiance to their grandfathers name. Not because, they have an ugly mark on their for head as a patrimonial testimony or because they are absolutely certain that there can be no way with which other grandchildren of their village can dare to copy that mark but maybe because they are confident of the values that they have imbibed, that they have a use, an ability with which they can contribute for the betterment of their village. The question we need to ask is that, can our grandfather afford the luxury of a Nishani (Mark)? Warm regards Taha On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:50 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Dear Taha and all. You have raised very valid questions in your mail. > "Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in > perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare > state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of > insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we > know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we > can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves > but histories of our families?" > I wish I could answer those questions. In an ideal society all this should > not be the case, but we are not living in an ideal universe. A friend of > mine from Pakistan has many anecdotes about his amnesiac grand father. He > had 24 sons. To differentiate his sons from other kids in the neighborhood, > he had got tatooed the names on their hands. I wish the modern states were > not as large as they are now. But since we are, I believe all the children > need to remind our amnesiac father that they too belong to the family and > therefore, need being provided for. > > Yes sadly we have reached in the state of "mere apne mere hone ki nishani > maange" (my own people ask for my identity" > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > *To:* taraprakash > *Cc:* reader-list at sarai.net > *Sent:* Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:05 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption > > Dear Taraprakash, > > Thank you for your mail. > > The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not > consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would > rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a > democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an > obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is > introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an > obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India > has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I > believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the > nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this > space. And there is no harm in talking about it. > > Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety > regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one. > > Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most > Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do > we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a > token really, certifying who we are? > > Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in > perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare > state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of > insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we > know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we > can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves > but histories of our families? > > Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure > of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation > regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem > to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort? > > Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the history > of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps have a > more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems inevitable > isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash wrote: > >> Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem >> of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on >> this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual >> discourse these days. >> Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to outrightly >> reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make fake >> passports and driving licences but still the driving license and passport >> regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, as far as >> I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe it is >> safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such an >> identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence of >> the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. >> >> Regards >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" < >> 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM >> Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption >> >> >> Dear Taraprakash, >>> >>> I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering >>> agencies. Please read the story below for more. >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Taha >>> >>> >>> >>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms >>> The Times of India. Nagpur Edition >>> In RTO, a licence for corruption >>> 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN >>> >>> >>> In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at >>> the regional transport office >>> (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two >>> driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The >>> second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the >>> then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory >>> driving test. >>> >>> However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have >>> failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption >>> continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been >>> virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many >>> number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. >>> >>> In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in >>> Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven >>> truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving >>> licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO >>> office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I >>> could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very >>> much had the original licence. >>> >>> When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a >>> tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had >>> lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police >>> complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he >>> said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a >>> duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. >>> >>> The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, >>> it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go >>> through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after >>> paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of >>> forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card >>> fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression >>> counter for early processing of cases." >>> >>> I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave >>> him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked >>> me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to >>> load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly >>> works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. >>> >>> The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite >>> promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get >>> me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. >>> >>> Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and >>> that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The >>> broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman >>> clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, >>> "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." >>> However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next >>> day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the >>> duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. >>> I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a >>> worrying factor." >>> >>> There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences >>> to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a >>> duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. >>> Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India >>> flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports >>> on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. >>> >>> Scary, isn't it? >>> >>> (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 21:36:05 2008 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:36:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India: Let Kashmir go Message-ID: <4fcaee300812290806g5621c5embc3242875f0c6bde@mail.gmail.com> http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1229/p09s02-coop.html India: Let Kashmir go Resolving the disputed territory would benefit all. *By Bennett Ramberg* from the December 29, 2008 editio Los Angeles - It now appears unlikely that India will respond to last month's attacks on Mumbai (Bombay) – its "9/11" – with a military strike on Pakistan, the terrorists' haven. With three major wars behind them, neither rival wants a repeat. Unfortunately, the possibility of war may intensify in years to come if India ramps up its "Cold Start" military doctrine. Cold Start transforms New Delhi's traditional focus on defense and lumbering mobilization of hundreds of thousands of troops to one that prizes nimble strikes against its neighbor within hours of crisis onset. The strategy assumes that occupation of limited Pakistani territory would be the bargaining chip to force Islamabad to heel. It also assumes that it could do this without crossing the nuclear threshold – not an easy feat where rivalries run deep. India has war-gamed this strategy since 2004. Adoption still must overcome equipment and personnel deficiencies and interservice rivalries, but work continues. Rather than intimidate Pakistan to constrain militants or suffer the consequences, Cold Start may do just the opposite by inadvertently putting militants in the driver's seat. Previously, terrorist provocations would be met with action only after deliberation and delay. Under Cold Start, response would be much more immediate, effectively empowering radicals to hold the subcontinent hostage to their crisis-initiating whims. To avoid that outcome, the time has come for India to short circuit the most critical incendiary, the disputed area of Kashmir. Despite some recent Islamic militant clamor to dominate the entire subcontinent, Kashmir remains the eye of the Indo-Pakistani vortex. Removing its centrality will help pull the rug from under terrorist groups that have used the dispute to target both the region and the heart of India. Failure will only heighten the probability that Cold Start might someday precipitate a nuclear conflict. Recent history shows that it's not a far-fetched specter. On Dec. 13, 2001, five Pakistani gunmen dressed in commando fatigues and driving a diplomatic car entered the VIP gate of India's Parliament's compound armed with AK-47 rifles, grenades, and other explosives. Their audacious objective: decapitate the Indian government. An alert guard foiled their plans, and the ensuing shoot-out left 13 people dead, including the assassins. India demanded that Pakistan ban the responsible terrorist groups and arrest their leaders. To press Islamabad, it mobilized half a million men. But the intended impact stumbled as India's Army took three weeks to get to the border. This allowed Pakistan sufficient time to ratchet up defenses. Tension then bounced down and up. They relaxed with President Musharraf's Jan. 12, 2002, televised address to the nation declaring his intention to crack down on the militants. But the May 2002 attack on an Indian base in Jammu that killed the wives and children of Indian servicemen renewed the drumbeat for war. By July 2002, intense American diplomatic pressure, coupled with subtle Pakistan nuclear threats, caused the belligerents to stand their armies down, leaving a sour taste for many Indians: Pakistan remained unpunished. For some defense planners, Cold Start offered the answer in future crisis. Now Mumbai gives the strategy renewed stimulus. But resolution of Kashmir is where momentum should be building. In recent years, India has sought to relax tensions by promoting confidence-building measures – a bus line and commercial truck service between Srinagar and Muzzafarrabad, regular meetings between Indian and Pakistani local commanders, a crisis hot line, dialogue with moderate Kashmiri separatists, and improvement in the region's economic and human rights. These steps have tempered conflict but not Kashmiri objection to Indian rule. New Delhi's reluctance to let Kashmiris define their future – options include independence, division along communal lines, comanagement by both India and Pakistan, a UN trusteeship – butts against recent history demonstrating that "letting go" more than holding on benefits politically divided states. Witness the pacific and beneficial demise of the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and Serbia/Montenegro. India's future rests not on maturing Cold Start but becoming a 21st century economic power house. Hanging on to Kashmir does nothing to promote that goal. Letting go not only will benefit New Delhi's modernization by reducing the heavy military burden bad relations with Pakistan engenders, it also will allow Islamabad to redirect its military resources to the tribal areas benefiting Washington's position in Afghanistan. By rattling South Asian relations, Mumbai's tragedy can give momentum to resolving one of the 20th century's most confounding impasses. A fast diplomatic start, not Cold Start, would benefit all. • *Bennett Ramberg served in the State Department during the George H.W. Bush administration. He is the author of three books and editor of three others on international politics*. From taraprakash at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 01:31:52 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:01:52 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> <65be9bf40812280705k53c1f1oea88d80b9ebc5395@mail.gmail.com> <6578604F4AC74E32B735ABF92D432610@tara> <65be9bf40812290749g7722faf7uab61078ce7ddd50c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1EACF4F88E504DD6AE558816CBF78295@tara> Dear Taha. Thanks for clarifying the difference between pahcan and shinakht. To my mind nishani comes from nishan (a mark of identity). The identity, as you have been suggesting, has a very wide semantic field however, for the issue at hand, we can do without much of what the entire field entails. When the sign id card serves as the signifier for an individual, the former serves as a nishani. I remember we used to have four library cards during our college days. That meant we could not be issued more than 4 books. Very often four books were not enough for our needs. But then there were students who did not use their library cards that often. So you would borrow their cards. But the rule was that if you were borrowing books on behalf of someone else, you had to show his/her college id card. There identity worked as nishani (proof) of the fact that x had authorized you to borrow books on x's card. You are right that it is not correct to translate nishani as identity, but nishani can definitely be translated as proof of someone's identity. In a plane journey you think you should know the guy sitting next to you. You remember that he is a poet but you are wondering which one. You have always confused Gulzar and Javed Akhtar with each other. You don't want to offend the guy by misidentifying him as the other. Then the guy takes out a book from his bag that has Javed Akhtar's name as the author and his photo on the book jacket. This book, hence, is the nishani or the proof of Javed Akhtar's identity. Having said that I must thank you for considering my perspectives worthy enough to respond. Sadly I won't be able to write more mails on the topic, primarily because net accessibility will remain sporradic to me for coming few weeks. Secondly and more importantly I don't have anything of significance to say on the topic. Before concluding I must state that even though the number assigned to us by the state towards our registration will be arbitrary, as you suggested, yet the relationship between the signifier, the national identity card, and the signnified, to whom it has been issued, will not be arbitrary as in the case of a Sassurean sign. Again, I need the card so that in the event of my getting killed by the state apparatuses, they will have less chance to negate my erstwhile existence. In the case of my being declared dead by my relatives, as happened with several people in UP, I should be able to show my identity card that has my name and my photograph, to prove that I am actually alive and those who have misappropriated my property are thugs. The identity card may not help anyone economically, it *can* save us from being harmed socially anb politically. If the state has failed in its duties, as your examples prove; like not being able to issue voter id cards for years, issuing multiple driving licenses to one individual or issuing an id card for someone who does not exist, it is not good for the citizens. The state should be forced to address these issues. I still believe that the citizens should ask for a multipurpose id card at birth which might be updated when the citizen becomes adult 18/21. The state should not force it on the citizens, the citizens must force the state to issue them. The state should not be allowed to use resource crunch as an excuse. Most citizens will be willing to pay for it if they don't have to pay separately for a passport and other such id cards separately. I can't say about other states, India definitely is financially sound enough to pay on behalf of its below poverty line citizens. That the state is not ideal and it cannot change is the statement of the pessimist. Progressive thinking has no scope for pessimism. Thanks TaraPrakash ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for sharing that anecdote. I think what you say about the amnesic grandfather is pertinent just as it is pertinent to remember the profound words of our Lord Krishna, when he exhorts every one of us in Mahabharata about the significance Vasudev Kutumbkam, which of course means that in fact, insofar as this earth is concerned, we are one family. From Bible's, Torah's or Quran's perspective all of us here are children of Adam alay salam and Havva. Taking that line of argument forward one could wonder then why is it that if God made one earth for all of us, then there are so many divisions? Who are we to divide God's earth? Don't you feel that seen from the perspectives mentioned above entities like nation state and its residues like citizenship and identity seems so contrived? Don't you think the idea of a nation becomes an artificial, almost plastic, synthetic notion, if we take Lord Krishna's words as our basic premise? Even Patanjali, suggests us, again and again to go beyond Rajas and Tamas and reach the state of Sattva. Go beyond to where all forms of Buddhi (Knowledge), Anubahava (Cognition), Smriti (Memory), Prama (Truth), Aparma (Untruth), Samasya (Doubt), Tarka (Argument), Upaman (Comparison), Sabda (Testimony) are made redundant. Of course, as we all know, that for him, Purusha exists in all of us. We just need to realise Yogah Chittah Vritti Nirodah through Abhyas or practise. One sometimes wonder had we all been followers of Patanjali, this world would have been such a nice place to stay, however, dear Taraprakash, unfortunately, for you and me and everyone we live in a time where it is not so. The idea of a nation far from being contrived, is a dominant part of our reality which we have to confront and deal with on an every day basis. We are not coaxed or cajoled or pushed to remember that we are all part of the one Purusha but we are reminded of a national identity and we are asked to contribute our subjectivity to be archived in a national memory. Multiple purpose National Identity Card is just a token of our citizenship. But an important one though. You mentioned- "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my identity") A slight correction, I think, Nishani is not equal to identity. Pechan is, I think the correct word for identity and Shanakth for Identification, Shanakthi Kagaz would be Identification Papers. Nishani is more like a mark, a trace, which someone like Barthes, would deem it to be like a bit of information which is used to identify or pinpoint certain elements in time and space. The MNIC will give all us a number, which would be more like a Saussurean signifier, you know, an arbitrary sign which has netiher the resemblance nor an existential relationship to its referent. We or rather our subjectivity will be coded through an index, which will of course not resemble us but nevertheless, will have a real connection with us. Our photographs will be objectified as icons, which would claim to represent us by its similarity to us. We of course know, how successful the exercise,to issue Electronic Photo Identity Cards was. That even after eighteen long years, since they were introduced, the Government of India has successfully distributed photo Voter Identity Cards only two thirds of our population. But of course past failures must not deter us, or the fact that no where in this world had there been a model where there has been a positive co relationship between issuance of national identity cards and uplift of the poor or a negative co relationship between the issuance of a national identity card and complete extinction of illegitimate citizens must stop us. As you rightly suggested, that an amnesic grandfather requires his brood to be marked. I think we also need to ask this question to ourselves. Why do we need a Nishani (Mark) to identify ourselves to that man whom we call our grandfather? We know who he is, don't we? We know that we are his children's children? Maybe that grandfather of your friend was resourceful enough, rich enough to afford the price of branding all his grand children. Ideally we would all like our grandfather to be rich don't we. But dear Taraprakash, we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a real world where not all grandfathers are that rich. That some times the most pressing need for a grandfather is to take care of his grandchildren. See to it that they are clothed, that they are fed, that they are educated, that they have a future to look forward to, so that they can proudly go out there in this world and swear allegiance to their grandfathers name. Not because, they have an ugly mark on their for head as a patrimonial testimony or because they are absolutely certain that there can be no way with which other grandchildren of their village can dare to copy that mark but maybe because they are confident of the values that they have imbibed, that they have a use, an ability with which they can contribute for the betterment of their village. The question we need to ask is that, can our grandfather afford the luxury of a Nishani (Mark)? Warm regards Taha On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:50 PM, taraprakash wrote: Dear Taha and all. You have raised very valid questions in your mail. "Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves but histories of our families?" I wish I could answer those questions. In an ideal society all this should not be the case, but we are not living in an ideal universe. A friend of mine from Pakistan has many anecdotes about his amnesiac grand father. He had 24 sons. To differentiate his sons from other kids in the neighborhood, he had got tatooed the names on their hands. I wish the modern states were not as large as they are now. But since we are, I believe all the children need to remind our amnesiac father that they too belong to the family and therefore, need being provided for. Yes sadly we have reached in the state of "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my identity" ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: taraprakash Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your mail. The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this space. And there is no harm in talking about it. Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one. Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a token really, certifying who we are? Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves but histories of our families? Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort? Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the history of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps have a more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems inevitable isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one. Warm regards Taha On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash wrote: Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual discourse these days. Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to outrightly reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make fake passports and driving licences but still the driving license and passport regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, as far as I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe it is safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such an identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence of the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. Regards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption Dear Taraprakash, I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering agencies. Please read the story below for more. Best Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms The Times of India. Nagpur Edition In RTO, a licence for corruption 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at the regional transport office (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory driving test. However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very much had the original licence. When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression counter for early processing of cases." I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a worrying factor." There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. Scary, isn't it? (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 09:02:31 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:32:31 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted Message-ID: Crushing defeat for Islamist candidates in the 9th Bangladesh elections. Yes, I Voted Naeem Mohaiemen Daily Star, December 30, 2008 http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228 The Secular Vote Bloc Naeem Mohaiemen Daily Star, December 29, 2008 http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/ From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 11:07:31 2008 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:07:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India: Let Kashmir go Message-ID: <98f331e00812292137i423b0956v53d112dbadeeb7f4@mail.gmail.com> A rubbish proposition from an imperialist interventionist.... From javedmasoo at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:05:15 2008 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:05:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] PIL against police-politician-criminal nexus in Mumbai Message-ID: Dear friend, Please read how our Politicians and Police have sold out the country and see how the Judiciary works hand in glove with them. After a Citizen of India, filed PIL at Mumbai High Court on 24.12.2008, bringing out facts, how Politicians have been working to help supporters of terrorists, the Judges decline, to speed up the hearing. According to the Judges, the matter is not urgent. full details at http://www.RoguePolice.com/pil20.htm On 26.12.2008 the Petitioner moved the Vacation bench of justice D G Karnik and Justice V R Kingaonkar at Mumbai HC for urgent hearing on Monday 28.12.2008, for granting Interim reliefs. However the Court turned it down, stating "There is no urgency. Move the regular court, after 5.1.2009" PIL: IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUDICATURE AT BOMBAY CRIMINAL APPELLATE JURISDICTION DISTRICT: MUMBAI PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION NO.: 20 OF 2008 filed on 24.12.2008 Indur Kartar Chhugani ….Petitioner (email ikchhugani at yahoo.com ) Age : 61 years, Occ. : Social work, R/o. : 501-502, Pinky Panorama CHS Ltd. 6th Road, Khar (W), Mumbai - 400 052. V E R S U S 1. Union of India, represented by the Home Secretary, Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India, North Block, Central Secretariat, New Delhi – 110 001. ... Respondents 2. The State of Maharashtra, Represented by the Addl. Chief Secretary, Home Department, Government of Maharashtra, Mantralaya, Mumbai. 3. The Commisioner of Police, Greater Mumbai, Mumbai. 4. The Editor, The Times of India, Mumbai WRIT PETITION UNDER ARTICLES 226 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA IN THE MATTER OF ARTICLES 14, 19 & 21 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA To, The Honourable the Chief Justice and other Puisne Judges of this Hon'ble High Court of Judicature at Bombay. WRIT Petition of the Petitioner above named – Respectfully Shows: (1) The Petitioner is requesting for appropriate Writs, directions or orders, more particularly of the nature of a Writ of Mandamus, and any such order or further orders/directions as this Honourable Court may deem fit and proper, to the Respondent Nos. 1, 2 and 3 to apprehend citizens of India or of Pakistan or any other country, involved in activity detrimental to the interests of the nation, which helps, the terrorists, to kill citizens of India. Most of the illegal activity is already within their knowledge. (2) The petitioner draws the kind attention of this Honourable court, to the fact, that the gross negligence displayed, by the Respondents 1, 2 and 3 through their inaction to apprehend the terrorists, has brought our country, to a near war like situation. A war that may cost millions of lives. Attached is an article, giving details, by the Chairman of "Friends of the South Asian American Communities" (FOSAAC). Attached as EXHIBIT "A". (3) The Petitioner is a senior citizen of India residing along with his family at the address stated in the cause title. He is an educated person with the qualifications of a Mechanical Engineer and has been a successful businessman with a clean record. He is a public spirited person concerned for the well being of the society and hence has come before this Honourable Court with the present Petition. He is also the managing trustee of "People for Legal and Emotional Assistance to the Deserving" (PLEAD) Regd No E-24397 (BOM). (4) The objective of PLEAD is to bring together all retired and working persons of good education such as Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, Military personnel, Teachers, Journalists, Judges, Police officers and other literate citizens to unite under one forum and form citizen groups in each police station area to bring about changes in all matters of importance to the public and the nation through legal and democratic means. (5) The petitioner has earlier filed a Writ Petition in August 2007, numbered CrWP/1679 /07, bringing out the nexus between shady builders and the Police officers, regarding building of illegal Police Beat Chowkies across Maharashtra, consequent to which this Honourable court has issued directions for demolition of all illegal Police Beat chowkies across Maharashtra. (6) The Police department, for reasons, not difficult to understand, has been allowing criminals a free hand, in committing acts detrimental to the interests of the Society and the Nation, resulting in a terrorist strike, which has traumatized the nation. (7) The facts have been brought to the notice of the Nation, by a leading Newspaper, The Times of India, just 4 days after terrorists struck Mumbai and killed over 200 people ruthlessly. (8) The Times of India is an esteemed daily newspaper, established more than 100 years ago. The first report that appeared in The Times of India, dated 1 December 2008 (at page 15 of the daily), is attached herewith as EXHIBIT "B". a. The report states "The Intelligence Bureau (IB) has sent a detailed dossier about the activities of one Mohammed Ali, who is the uncrowned king of the docks". b. According to the report "Ali is a close aide of Karachi-based terrorist Dawood Ibrahim, Ali smuggles petrol, diesel, drugs, arms and other contraband with impunity". c. The Report states "the government is reluctant to move against Ali and his gang because he enjoys the patronage of a powerful politician, known to be a business partner of Dawood". d. The Newspaper report further states after recently, they picked up Hasan Ali, a racehorse owner from Pune and a joint probe by the IB, Enforcement Directorate (ED) and Directorate of Revenue Intelligence (DRI) revealed "that Hasan Ali had handled hawala transactions worth a whopping Rs 35,000 crore, much of it belonging to two Maharashtra politicians. His laptop revealed details of vast amounts stashed away in Swiss bank accounts." e. The report states "The authorities were reportedly asked to go slow on Hasan Ali". f. Further the report states "Inspector Vijay Salaskar, who died fighting the terrorists, had closely investigated the entrenched links between a prominent gutka manufacturer and the Dawood gang. He had unearthed a mass of evidence about the manufacturer's visit to Dubai, where he met Hamid Antulay, a nephew of Dawood, and then went on a false Pakistani passport to Karachi where he met the don and his brother Anees. The purpose of the visit was to settle a business dispute with a rival.Salaskar found out that the manufacturer was Dawood's partner in the gutka business, alongside a leading politician who dabbles in real estate development. Despite Salaskar's best efforts, he was never allowed even to summon the manufacturer for questioning". g. The Report further states "The details of Dawood's vast business transactions and the man fronting it are available with the Central government. But there is inaction". (9) The next report that appeared on the front page in The Times Of India, three days later, on 4 December 2008, . is attached herewith as EXHIBIT "C". a. The report states that "Dawood continues to phone his contact in Mumbai". b. Further, the report states "Recently, a contact who fronts for him in the real estate business reportedly sent Rs 120 crores via hawala, sources in the government stated". (10) The next report that appeared in The Times Of India 18 days later, on 21 December 2008, at page 4 is attached herewith as EXHIBIT "D". the salient points of which are: a. A secret meeting was held at Geneva last year, which was attended by Dawood, the politician and the arms dealer. The money transaction was worked out at the meeting. "The Centre has report of this meeting, but it is not acting on it,'' a source said. b. Indian security agencies are reportedly keeping tabs on the movements of known business partners of Dawood in Mumbai, including a gutka baron and a top builder, to find out if they are going to Dubai en route to the secret birthday bash. c. "However, all these efforts add up to nothing as the government is not at all inclined to crack down on Dawood's financial empire in India despite us gathering all kinds of information about it,'' a security official said. (11) From paras 8,9 and 10 above, it is clear, the Government agencies have been having all the information, about the illegal activities of Dawood Ibrahim, since quite some time. Also they know the name of the powerful politician, known to be a business partner of Dawood - definitely long before the terrorist strike of 26/11. (12) Further, a big controversy is raging in the country and the Parliament now in the wake of the public statements by Mr. Antulay regarding the killing of Mr. Karkare, the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorist-Squad (ATS) Chief along with two other valiant officers by the terrorists alleging that 'terrorism plus something else' may the real cause for their deaths and calling for a thorough probe into the matters. He hinted at the hands of any Hindu terrorists even in this regard. Whatever may be the validity and rationality of his suspicions, the very fact that they arise from the mind of a reputed senior politician and responsible union minister and that there are also a good many responsible politicians and people supporting his demand for such a probe, fortify this petitioner's own apprehensions of the underworld-politician-bureaucrat-terrorist nexus leading to the recent terrorist mayhem in Bombay. EXHIBIT "E" attached herewith is a compilation of press reports regarding Antulay's controversial remarks. (13) Further, it is apt to point out here itself that the Cr WP/1679/07 regarding illegal police chowkies, was filed in August 2007 by this petitioner despite threats from the police of harming him physically and during the course of hearing the writ petition, this Hon'ble Court recognised these threats and passed an order on 9 January 2008 warning the police: "We make it clear that if any harm visits the petitioner, the Home Department and the Commissioner of police, greater Mumbai will be solely responsible for the consequences". Thereafter, the Mumbai police, offered police protection to the petitioner, at their own expense, however this petitioner declined that offer, as it was unthinkable that 1 or 2 gunmen could protect him from the Maharashtra police. The petitioner herein further states that the threat to his life increased manifold ever since 25th February 2008, pursuant to his bringing to the notice of this Court the arbitrary and illegal manner in which the Additional Commissioner of Police (Traffic) had allowed some Advertisement companies to gain nearly Rs 8 crores every month and made out a clear case for cancelling this Advertisement contract given away for free. Regarding this, a letter was also submitted to the Chief Justice, Bombay High Court, on 30th September 2008 a copy of which is attached herewith as EXHIBIT "F". (14) The petitioner further says that the threat to him and his family will increase manifold, perhaps to a greater proportion than that faced by many politicians of the country, pursuant to filing of this writ petition and after this Honourable court orders the police to initiate immediate action against those named in the 3 Times of India reports. (15) GROUNDS FOR THIS WRIT PETITION: A. The Times of India seems to definitely have a lot of information regarding the illegal activities of criminals and politicians involved in activities detrimental to the interests of our country, and surely that newspaper publishers and editors can and will provide more information to the highest authorities of the Government or the police, if so required. However, even after all these reports have appeared, no one from the Government appears to have made any efforts to act on those. As such the lives and properties of millions of people in Bombay are in jeopardy due to the ever present terrorist menace exacerbated by the underworld-corrupt politician-bureaucrat nexus and hence the Right to Life guaranteed under Article 21 of our Constitution is seriously infringed by the inaction and negligence of the government authorities. B. The Mumbai police has also turned a blind eye to all the reports that have appeared in The Times of India and have taken no action to apprehend the gangster Mohammed Ali who is described as the underworld don and uncrowned king of the docks in league with the dreaded terrorist gangster Dawood Ibrahim now reportedly moving freely in his cosy shelters in Karachi, Pakistan, or the likes of Hasan Ali who are so numerous in Bombay making hell of the lives of ordinary, innocent and honest people. Their inaction and negligence also blatantly violate the letter and spirit of Article 21, which has a rich positive content and mandates protection of the lives of citizens also. C. It is also clear that all the concerned persons in authority to be acting arbitrarily without taking the people into confidence through transparent proceedings and democratic governance is a desideratum. As such the people's security and liberties including freedom of speech and expression are jeopardized and their lives and properties are in grave danger with already around 200 precious lives lost and crores of properties damaged in the recent terrorist mayhem which is in considerable measure due to the negligence, inefficiency and arbitrary functioning of the authorities and as such fundamental rights of the people under Articles 14 and 19 are also infringed in a large measure. D. Further, these authorities themselves appear to be scared of the gangster Dawood and his powerful political friends in India. Therefore the people of Bombay need be given ample security through the remedial measures suggested/ ordered by this Court and, more particularly this petitioner needs and deserves to be given the highest security possible. (16) P R A Y E R S: 1. In the circumstances narrated and for the reasons stated supra, I request that this Honourable Court may be pleased to issue an appropriate writ, order or direction, particularly a writ in the nature of MANDAMUS, to the respondents, specifically to respondents 1 and 2, to immediately conduct a high level enquiry into the dealings and relations between the underworld leaders and terrorist suspects in Bombay and elsewhere in Maharashtra with a comprehensive report to be submitted to this Court within three months thereof, with a consequent direction that the respondent No. 3 will spare no pains to arrest and detain unlawful elements named in the Times of India reports as a precautionary measure for the protection of lives and properties of millions of people in Bombay and elsewhere from the underworld plus terrorist gangs. 2. Award costs to the writ petitioner; and pass such other order or further orders as this Honourable Court may deem fit and proper in the circumstances of the case to meet the ends of justice. 3. INTERIM RELIEFS: In the circumstances narrated and for reasons stated in the foregoing paragraphs, it is just and necessary that this Honourable Court may be pleased to forthwith direct that – A. The Rule Nisi may be issued in this Writ Petition, B. The Mumbai police immediately identify the powerful politician, known to be a business partner of Dawood. C. The Mumbai police initiate immediate action also against those who have issued directions to go slow against the individuals indulging in criminal activities detrimental to the country. D. The Maharashtra Government arrange for same level of security to the petitioner and his family, as arranged for Respondents No 1 and 2, considering the facts of this petition. E. For any other and further relief as deemed fit and proper in view of the important issues of public interest raised in this Writ Petition. For which acts of kindness and justice the Petitioner shall ever be grateful. Mumbai :24 /12 /2008 (Petitioner) A F F I R M A T I O N I Indur K. Chhugani, son of Late Kartar Chhugani Aged: 61 years; Occupation: Social Work, citizen of India, Resident of 501-502, Pinky Panorama CHS Ltd., 6th Road, Khar (W), Mumbai - 400 052, the Petitioner above-named, do hereby solemnly affirm and state that I have read the contents of the foregoing paragraphs and whatever stated therein is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. Indur Kartar Chhugani (Petitioner) Mumbai : 24 /12 /2008 The writer is a veteran journalist EXHIBIT "A" Consequences of a possible war in South Asia- According to one of the studies, for example, if five cities each of India and Pakistan are hit in a nuclear war, about 1.7 million people will be killed in India and about 1.2 million in Pakistan, or a total of about three million in the region. If 15 cities of the two countries (eight in India and seven in Pakistan) are nuked, according to a classified Pentagon study, the toll could mount to 12 million deaths. Carcinogenic black rain in coastal areas of Hiroshima-like high humidity and the velocity of summer winds and dust storms especially in the India-Pakistan border region will widen the fallout. The global consequences will be no less grim - even if the conflict remains regional and does not become a world war . Ira Helfand, a US medical specialist, in a study of October 2007, projected "a total global death toll in the range of one billion from starvation alone" as a result of the regional war over a period of time. Earlier studies have suggested that such a conflict would throw five million tonnes of black soot into the atmosphere, causing a reduction of 1.25 degrees Celsius in the average temperature at the earth's surface for several years. Consequently, the annual growing season in the world's most important grain-producing areas would shrink by between 10 and 20 days. According to Helfand, the world was ill prepared to cope with such a disaster. "Global grain stocks stand at 49 days, lower than at any point in the past five decades. These stocks would not provide any significant reserve in the event of a sharp decline in production. We would see hoarding on a global scale." All this was said quite sometime before the eruption of the latest food crisis. Yet another study estimates the smoke unleashed by 100 small 15-kiloton nuclear warheads could destroy 30 percent to 40 percent of the world's ozone layer. This is expected to kill off some food crops. Thanks for reading this and let us support no War Lt Kevin Kishore Kaul Retd Indian Navy Chairman FOSAAC www.fosaac.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 30 13:29:18 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:59:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Naeem   That is a very nice piece by you.   Wish Bangladesh all the best. Hope the elections live up to what has been called Bangladesh's "second independence". Hope it is the final one.   Best regards   Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted To: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 9:02 AM Crushing defeat for Islamist candidates in the 9th Bangladesh elections. Yes, I Voted Naeem Mohaiemen Daily Star, December 30, 2008 http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228 The Secular Vote Bloc Naeem Mohaiemen Daily Star, December 29, 2008 http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:30:57 2008 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:30:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Cut.In Student's Film Festival Message-ID: Please forward to anyone who might be interested. The first Cut.In Students' Video Festival http://cutinfest.wordpress.com/ will be held at the Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai on the 6 and 7 February 2009. The festival is being organized by the Centre for Media and Cultural Studies (www.cmcs.tiss.edu) Tata Institute of Social Sciences. CMCS is an independent centre of Tata Institute of Social Sciences, engaged in media teaching, production, research and dissemination. A unique feature of the Centre is the close linkage between the technical and academic areas of its work, thus facilitating a synergy between research, teaching and production, all of which are informed by a keen sense of connection with local subaltern cultures of resistance and invention. The CMCS has done pioneering work in critical media education in the country. Currently the centre runs a two-year Masters degree in Media and Cultural Studies focusing on professional media practice and research within a framework that enables the development of a critical perspective on media, culture and society. It seeks to enable the creation of a lively group of thinking doers and doing thinkers. This national level video festival aims to encourage talent among this group and also to bring them together. The competition is for short documentaries, short films, public service messages and music videos produced between 1 January 2006 to 1 December 2008 The festival will feature works by graduate/postgraduate/diploma students all over the country selected by a panel of judges. Entries are invited for the following categories: a) Best Documentary (under 30 min) b) Best Short fiction (under 30 min) c) Best Public Service Message (Under 2 min) d) Music Video (under 6 min) Two prizes will be given in each category. Additionally, there are prizes for the best script, camera, edit and sound design. The prize consists of a trophy and a citation. Preview Material 1. Last Date for receiving the entries is 15th January 2009 2. Please use block letters when applying, any form that can't be read clearly will not be accepted. 3. Preview material will not be returned. Preview material may be in CD/DVD 4. The preview parcel must state clearly: NO COMMERCIAL VALUE. FOR FESTIVAL PREVIEW ONLY. The festival will not cover any expense regarding this matter. It is not possible to return the preview copies. 6. Please note: Please pack adequately. Do not use material that can damage drives and players. 7. Preview tapes, CDs, DVDs must be labeled with title, running time and contact information. Please do not send Master tapes, or any originals. 8. Preview material will not be returned unless specifically requested by the applicant. The cost for the same shall be borne by the applicant. For the Entry Form click on the top right hand side tab 'Entry Form' or click here Please make sure you have attached the following with your entry: 1. Entry form - each for a different entry 2. Synopsis of the film 3. Note on Director(s) 4. Stills from the film 5. Script (of the short film) or storyboard (of the Public Service Advertisement or the Music Video) or concept note(of the documentary film) 6. Demand Draft of Rs. 300 favouring 'Tata Institute of Social Sciences' payable at Mumbai. 7. Bonafide Certificate from the institution where you are studying. http://cutinfest.wordpress.com/ From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:42:06 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:12:06 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted In-Reply-To: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Everyone is a bit stunned at the size of the Awami League victory. Personally I get nervous about brute majority, I hope it does not go to their head. I hope we do not get the Mujib of 1969, and not the one of 1974, who cancelled multi-party democracy. However, on personal note, I am very happy that the Islamists were crushed at this election. In 2001 they won 17 seats, and were given 2 ministries. Now they have won in only 2 seats. All major Jamaat leaders were defeated in the seats they ran from. Let us see. I think calling it "second independence" is hyperbole and sets us up for disappointment. Rather let's keep level head and keep the pressure on. Last night Abul Barkat (author of comprehensive study on Hindi disenfranchisement, whom I quoted in a recent report) was pointing to the religious/ethnic minority candidate victories and saying the overall election was a landslide mandate for secularism. Well easy to say those things on election day. I remain cautiously optimistic, and committed to keeping the pressure up to build secular Bangladesh. And saludos to the youth vote-- 52% of the total electorate. http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/28/mohaiemen-rtv2/ On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Naeem > > That is a very nice piece by you. > > Wish Bangladesh all the best. Hope the elections live up to what has been > called Bangladesh's "second independence". Hope it is the final one. > > Best regards > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 9:02 AM > > Crushing defeat for Islamist candidates in the 9th Bangladesh elections. > > > Yes, I Voted > Naeem Mohaiemen > Daily Star, December 30, 2008 > http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228 > > The Secular Vote Bloc > Naeem Mohaiemen > Daily Star, December 29, 2008 > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:42:53 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:12:53 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted In-Reply-To: References: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I meant to write "I hope we GET the Mujib of 1969, and NOT the one of 1974" On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > Everyone is a bit stunned at the size of the Awami League victory. > Personally I get nervous about brute majority, I hope it does not go > to their head. I hope we do not get the Mujib of 1969, and not the one > of 1974, who cancelled multi-party democracy. > > However, on personal note, I am very happy that the Islamists were > crushed at this election. In 2001 they won 17 seats, and were given 2 > ministries. Now they have won in only 2 seats. All major Jamaat > leaders were defeated in the seats they ran from. > > Let us see. I think calling it "second independence" is hyperbole and > sets us up for disappointment. Rather let's keep level head and keep > the pressure on. Last night Abul Barkat (author of comprehensive study > on Hindi disenfranchisement, whom I quoted in a recent report) was > pointing to the religious/ethnic minority candidate victories and > saying the overall election was a landslide mandate for secularism. > > Well easy to say those things on election day. I remain cautiously > optimistic, and committed to keeping the pressure up to build secular > Bangladesh. > > And saludos to the youth vote-- 52% of the total electorate. > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/28/mohaiemen-rtv2/ > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> Dear Naeem >> >> That is a very nice piece by you. >> >> Wish Bangladesh all the best. Hope the elections live up to what has been >> called Bangladesh's "second independence". Hope it is the final one. >> >> Best regards >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: >> >> From: Naeem Mohaiemen >> Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted >> To: "reader-list at sarai.net" >> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 9:02 AM >> >> Crushing defeat for Islamist candidates in the 9th Bangladesh elections. >> >> >> Yes, I Voted >> Naeem Mohaiemen >> Daily Star, December 30, 2008 >> http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228 >> >> The Secular Vote Bloc >> Naeem Mohaiemen >> Daily Star, December 29, 2008 >> http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/ >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 30 13:43:49 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:13:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India: Let Kashmir go In-Reply-To: <98f331e00812292137i423b0956v53d112dbadeeb7f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409811.46408.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Prakash   You seem to have been blinded by the knowledge that the article was written by an ex-member of Bush's administration. It appears you have not read the article.   There is nothing interventionist in the article. It analyses the situation and put forwards some suggestions from the writer's perspective which he thinks are beneficial to India. He asks for Indian self introspection. No outsiude intervention has been suggested or even hinted at.    You might agree or disagree on the specifics of what has been written or the deductions. Instead you suspended intellect and put forward your bias.   I personally disagree with some points made by the writer, but more than that I found very interesting the superficiality of some analyses and deductions. Extremely interesting considering the writer's Bio.   Kshmendra   --- On Tue, 12/30/08, prakash ray wrote: From: prakash ray Subject: [Reader-list] India: Let Kashmir go To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 11:07 AM A rubbish proposition from an imperialist interventionist.... _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 16:30:49 2008 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:00:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted ;hopes & wishes In-Reply-To: References: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Naeem, Your apprehensions are understable.It does'nt take long in a fledgeling democracy, for an 'absolute majority' to sccumb to the 'absolute authority' syndrome. Even AL has embraced the Islamists in the past , yet,as pointed out by you the majority of the electorate having been youth this time , it is hoped that there will be a continued pressure on the Govt. It is also hoped that there will now be a check on the growing nexus between ISI & the anti India groups operating from there. Actually, Bangladesh has all the potential to emerge as a robust secular democracy. Our congratulations & best wishes to the people of Bangladesh. LA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:12:53 +0600> From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted> > I meant to write "I hope we GET the Mujib of 1969, and NOT the one of 1974"> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Naeem Mohaiemen> wrote:> > Everyone is a bit stunned at the size of the Awami League victory.> > Personally I get nervous about brute majority, I hope it does not go> > to their head. I hope we do not get the Mujib of 1969, and not the one> > of 1974, who cancelled multi-party democracy.> >> > However, on personal note, I am very happy that the Islamists were> > crushed at this election. In 2001 they won 17 seats, and were given 2> > ministries. Now they have won in only 2 seats. All major Jamaat> > leaders were defeated in the seats they ran from.> >> > Let us see. I think calling it "second independence" is hyperbole and> > sets us up for disappointment. Rather let's keep level head and keep> > the pressure on. Last night Abul Barkat (author of comprehensive study> > on Hindi disenfranchisement, whom I quoted in a recent report) was> > pointing to the religious/ethnic minority candidate victories and> > saying the overall election was a landslide mandate for secularism.> >> > Well easy to say those things on election day. I remain cautiously> > optimistic, and committed to keeping the pressure up to build secular> > Bangladesh.> >> > And saludos to the youth vote-- 52% of the total electorate.> > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/28/mohaiemen-rtv2/> >> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote:> >> Dear Naeem> >>> >> That is a very nice piece by you.> >>> >> Wish Bangladesh all the best. Hope the elections live up to what has been> >> called Bangladesh's "second independence". Hope it is the final one.> >>> >> Best regards> >>> >> Kshmendra> >>> >>> >> --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:> >>> >> From: Naeem Mohaiemen > >> Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted> >> To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > >> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 9:02 AM> >>> >> Crushing defeat for Islamist candidates in the 9th Bangladesh elections.> >>> >>> >> Yes, I Voted> >> Naeem Mohaiemen> >> Daily Star, December 30, 2008> >> http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228> >>> >> The Secular Vote Bloc> >> Naeem Mohaiemen> >> Daily Star, December 29, 2008> >> http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2008/12/29/secular-vote/> >> _________________________________________> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> >> Critiques & Collaborations> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe> >> in> >> the subject header.> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> >>> >> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Much more than email – don't miss out on the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx From shuddha at sarai.net Tue Dec 30 18:02:34 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:02:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza Message-ID: Dear All, We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian casualties caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on Gaza a few days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of those who currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of a lasting and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no other way to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross state terrorism. Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose origins lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist Opposition' within the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with its own obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that holds the peace process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle of competitive retribution. Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in the perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no surprise to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of identity- based conflicts in South Asia. There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian 'blogsphere' who are already calling for 'India to Emulate Israel'. Some of them, such as this one, http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? pg=2&contentid=393780 come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) He says - "..A country which did not have a geographical existence before 1948 is continuing to show the way on how to respond to terrorism...They strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring standard international conventions and borders...India has to reassess its policy options and think of non traditional measures for tackling this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both Israel and USA." Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the former DG of NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not exactly an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who admires a bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of those). He is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of great responsibility in the security establishment in India. I sincerely hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated fringe that has no current influence in the corridors of power. However, especially at times like this, it becomes important to complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and Pakistanis (or so I hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors and isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been recently rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component within the spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that is outraged (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and lethal show of force in Gaza. And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are committed to combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have been condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So too, many in Israel today are willing to stand up and be called 'traitors' because they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this kind of action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' are worthy of being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who are being called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' for opposing militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine by their respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, in Israel, by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault on Gaza. May their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been reported far less in the international media in comparison to the protests across the Arab and Islamic world. regards, Shuddha ------------------------ 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in Gaza By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a mainstream but liberal Israeli Newspaper) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in the streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the massive Israel Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and hundreds more wounded. The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque toward the Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on horseback, surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. According to the protesters, Israel's military action in Gaza does not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. Advertisement "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of Gaza is meant to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said Matan Kaminer, a student who participated in the march. Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part of horse- mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee and in Bedouin villages in the Negev. 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- January-2009 issue http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- day-1-in.html Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in Gaza. It has come. This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to the early morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more hours. This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we will probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was their last morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, the 58-years old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the quiet weekend streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before sunset he would become part of statistics. A very favourable body count indeed for Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 Palestinians, as of this hour. Cheers! The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking surprise - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever to feel surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of angry protest and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to other activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel and the whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: "The Gaza war is the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", "Barak conducts his elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the border." At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by the Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by Hadash, Gush Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz grassroots network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and phone and email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an open planning meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at 7.30. Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both bombed Gaza and bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any effort to stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa and Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and Nazareth some came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on in their hometowns. The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, the Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police and riot police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars arriving and unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these ones don't carry pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to bring the war here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights t-shirt. On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing placards. "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - Our Victims!" / "War is not election s spin" / "No to the murder of innocents!" / "We Israelis say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" / "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, Stop the War!". "Livni, Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not Kill!" One slogan came up very often: "This is not my war!" It was written again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination of these. Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the Cinemateque building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee community in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to the refugees and not deport them. A young black woman came over, speaking of children in Congo, her homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle carcinogenic materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and give this cause the attention which it also deserves. By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded with over a thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel during the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever which the Israeli media is capable of. Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers started their rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after line, blocking all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable but organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. After some twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to the wonder of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. The compromise with the police was that the march take a route to the Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street traffic. The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street looked down from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting protesters: "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza and Sderot, Children Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the solution!" / Stop the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - Save the peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did you kill today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you power!" / "The blood is flowing for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is flowing for the polls of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to Negotiations!" Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most days would sound like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at the corner of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted police directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of "Police State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the organizers. "We have an appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates appear on the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of the press - our attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the voice of Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is broadcast from the towers across the street. "Liar, war criminal!" rises the shout as if answering from the street, and several young people broke through the police fences, trying to block the street - to be immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. It continued until half past nine when it was announced: "We are finished here for today, but we will continue to come back until it is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us to picket the police station where our friends are held." In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war reports from the south - carried a short report of the demonstration. The number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an obvious hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the opposition to the war. But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting mentioned at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. From isouweine at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 18:46:32 2008 From: isouweine at gmail.com (Isaac souweine) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:16:32 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34bf33330812300516h3874d262y93be68ed8786d2d9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddha - Thanks for forwarding this. I have been trying to make some sense of these events outside of the sadness of lost lives and the chilling spectre of what I think you rightly call Israeli state terrorism. Some questions that are on my mind: 1. The current defense minister and spokesmen for the assault (and possible prime minister come February) is Ehud Barak. Definitely a member of the elite power structure, but not I think a "Militant Zionist" in the sense that you use the term below. What is going through the mind of this man? Is his ultimate goal really the perpetuation of conflict? Or, if his goal is some lasting, two-state solution, which I believe it probably is (this is not a stupid man who believes in some fantasy of Palestinian extermination) how do he and his co-leaders see this attack? What is the true agenda? 2. The protests reported below do not exactly sound like a groundswell. Such reports aside, one must assume that a viable majority of the country supports at some level the aggresion of their army. This is not a country like the US where the army is sequestered form the people, where war can be foisted on the people with minimal real impact. In Israel, calling up the reserves means calling up the people, all of them! What then do the people think? Again, I truly believe tha the majority accepts that a two-state solution is inevitable and just. How then do they see this helping? If anyone is reading material that gives insight into mainstream Israeli opinion on the violence I would love to see it. 3. What vision does Hamas' leadership have for the future of this conflict? Surely they know that their intentions to exterminate Israel are little more than a rallying cry. So what then is the strategy? Why the low-level rocket sniping, which is neither a cease fire nor a hard core militancy (of which they are surely capable)? Did they perhaps provoke this attack to expose the rage and terror of the Israeli state, in order to better their very shaky position in the international community? More generally, what does it mean when an extremist revolutionary movement is suddenly in charge of governing nearly a million people? Are Hamas' leaders even in control of their own fighters? In summary, I guess I am wondering whether all of this really "demonstrates the willingness of those who currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of a lasting and durable peace with the Palestinian people". Or in other words - how does the peace vs. security dichotomy truly function in Israeli political life? What is the meaning of these categories in a country that takes the possibility of extinction as a core part of its national identity? I think back to the most recent war in Lebabnon, and how it felt throughout the violence that the Israeli state was not really animated by the concerns of the international community, and that Israeli popular opinion turned against the war not because it was unjust but becuse it was ineffective and poorly run. One final aside - I think your paranthetical comment about Hamas's origin is perhaps ill-advised as it currently sits. It seems to me that it robs the Palestinians of crucial agency regarding the character of their leadership. I trust you are correct that Israel played a role in creating a counter-balance to the PLO, (who would know if not you :-) but to throw this nugget out without a larger discussion implies a rather too convenient picture in which Israel makes history while Palestinians just experience it. Yours, Isaac On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian casualties > caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on Gaza a few > days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of those who > currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of a lasting > and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no other way > to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross state > terrorism. > > Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose origins > lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist Opposition' within > the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with its own > obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that holds the peace > process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle of > competitive retribution. > > Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible > Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in the > perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no surprise > to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of identity- > based conflicts in South Asia. > > There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian 'blogsphere' > who are already calling for 'India to Emulate Israel'. Some of them, > such as this one, > > http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? > pg=2&contentid=393780 > > come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) > > He says - > > "..A country which did not have a geographical existence before 1948 > is continuing to show the way on how to respond to terrorism...They > strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring standard > international conventions and borders...India has to reassess its > policy options and think of non traditional measures for tackling > this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both Israel and USA." > > Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the former DG of > NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) > and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not exactly > an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who admires a > bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of those). He > is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of great > responsibility in the security establishment in India. I sincerely > hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated fringe that > has no current influence in the corridors of power. > > However, especially at times like this, it becomes important to > complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and Pakistanis (or so I > hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors and > isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- > intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been recently > rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component within the > spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that is outraged > (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and lethal show of > force in Gaza. > > And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are committed to > combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have been > condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So too, many in > Israel today are willing to stand up and be called 'traitors' because > they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this kind of > action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' are worthy of > being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who are being > called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' for opposing > militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine by their > respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. > > Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, in Israel, > by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault on Gaza. May > their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been reported > far less in the international media in comparison to the protests > across the Arab and Islamic world. > > regards, > > Shuddha > > ------------------------ > > 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in Gaza > By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a mainstream but > liberal Israeli Newspaper) > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html > > Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in the > streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the massive Israel > Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and hundreds > more wounded. > > The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque toward the > Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on horseback, > surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. > > According to the protesters, Israel's military action in Gaza does > not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. > Advertisement > "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of Gaza is meant > to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said Matan Kaminer, > a student who participated in the march. > > Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part of horse- > mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. > > Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee and in > Bedouin villages in the Negev. > > 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv > Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- > January-2009 issue > http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- > day-1-in.html > > Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in Gaza. It > has come. > > This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to the early > morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more hours. > This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we will > probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was their last > morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, the 58-years > old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the quiet weekend > streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before sunset he would > become part of statistics. A very favourable body count indeed for > Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 Palestinians, > as of this hour. Cheers! > > The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking surprise > - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever to feel > surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of angry protest > and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to other > activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel and the > whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: "The Gaza war is > the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", "Barak conducts his > elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the border." > > At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by the > Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by Hadash, Gush > Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz grassroots > network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and phone and > email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at > 6.00 pm for > > "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an open planning > meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at 7.30. > Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both bombed Gaza and > bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any effort to > stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa and > Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and Nazareth some > came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on in their > hometowns. > > The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, the > Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police and riot > police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars arriving and > unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these ones don't carry > pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to bring the war > here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights t-shirt. > > On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing placards. > > "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - Our Victims!" / "War is not > election s spin" / "No to the murder of innocents!" / "We Israelis > say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" / > "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, Stop the War!". "Livni, > Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not Kill!" > > One slogan came up very often: "This is not my war!" It was written > again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination of these. > > Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the Cinemateque > building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee community > in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to the refugees > and not deport them. > > A young black woman came over, speaking of children in Congo, her > homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle carcinogenic > materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and give this > cause the attention which it also deserves. > > By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded with over a > thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel during > the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever which the > Israeli media is capable of. > > Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers started their > rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after line, blocking > all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable but > organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. After some > twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to the wonder > of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. > > The compromise with the police was that the march take a route to the > Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street traffic. > The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street looked down > from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting protesters: > > "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza and Sderot, Children > Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the solution!" / Stop > the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - Save the > peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did you kill > today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you power!" / "The blood is flowing > for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is flowing for the polls > of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to Negotiations!" > > Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most days would sound > like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. > > For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at the corner > of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted police > directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of "Police > State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the organizers. "We have an > appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." > > Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates appear on > the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of the press - our > attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the voice of > Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is broadcast from > the towers across the street. "Liar, war criminal!" rises the shout > as if answering from the street, and several young people broke > through the police fences, trying to block the street - to be > immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. > > It continued until half past nine when it was announced: "We are > finished here for today, but we will continue to come back until it > is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us to picket > the police station where our friends are held." > > In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war reports > from the south - carried a short report of the demonstration. The > number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an obvious > hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the opposition to the > war. > > But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting mentioned > at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Dec 30 19:19:58 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:49:58 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812300543x2b34ba3enb3f834cfd6b3713b@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40812271400y382fb7c1u4fbd32aac6158b15@mail.gmail.com> <7BCEAFD371A54091BF4C55EA1E8BD032@tara> <65be9bf40812280705k53c1f1oea88d80b9ebc5395@mail.gmail.com> <6578604F4AC74E32B735ABF92D432610@tara> <65be9bf40812290749g7722faf7uab61078ce7ddd50c@mail.gmail.com> <1EACF4F88E504DD6AE558816CBF78295@tara> <65be9bf40812300543x2b34ba3enb3f834cfd6b3713b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812300549t439ffd91sff3c4939893d8b1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for your response. Let us carefully look at key arguments that you have presented. 1. The identity, as you have been suggesting, has a very wide semantic field however, for the issue at hand, we can do without much of what the entire field entails. When the sign id card serves as the signifier for an individual, the former serves as a nishani. Why do you think that 'we can do without much of what the entire field entails'? What is so sacred or profane about the National identity card which merits such negligence? That without a proper understanding of the basic idea of identity we want to go in for an exercise of such a huge scale. Don't you think that if we do that we also allow for irresponsible disbursement of public funds? 2. the guy takes out a book from his bag that has Javed Akhtar's name as the author and his photo on the book jacket. This book, hence, is the nishani or the proof of Javed Akhtar's identity. The premise seems to be that all icons will have correct tags. That certainly is not the case with earlier exercises in providing identity documents, is it not? So when the GOI could not conduct an exercise to correctly photograph and tag voters of India or the poor of India how do you think that they can photograph and tag the entire country? How is the disbursement of so much money justified? 3. the relationship between the signifier, the national identity card, and the signified, to whom it has been issued, will not be arbitrary as in the case of a Sassurean sign. Again, I need the card so that in the event of my getting killed by the state apparatuses etc etc... Why do you think that only a national identity card can save you from mis-identification or non-identification? The premise seems to be that only a national identity card will have a validity that other forms of identification documents have not? If this being the case then why do you think so? Do you think that all voter id cards, ration cards, PAN cards, driving licenses, passports, bank account statements, or identity documents provided by employers are invalid? That we need a national identity card, because no other supplement exists? 4. I still believe that the citizens should ask for a multipurpose id card at birth which might be updated when the citizen becomes adult 18/21. The state should not force it on the citizens, the citizens must force the state to issue them. What do mean by citizen Taraprakah, do you hold a normative position as enshrined by our constitution? Do you think that citizenship in India is an inalienable part of all Indians? Do you think that citizenship is not negotiable? 5. I can't say about other states, India definitely is financially sound enough to pay on behalf of its below poverty line citizens. Most respectfully Tarapraksh, this above argument, left me completely confused. You could clear this confusion by providing me with necessary evidence. Please allow me to state why I was confused. I strongly feel that before we can take pride in our Indian identity we must take pride in being human. As far as I am concerned, I don't think that the Indian State seems sincere in its efforts in ensuring that citizens feel proud in being a human being. For instance, take the issue of Latrines. Yes Latrines, the place we go to deposit our shit. We have in our country as of 2004 some 1.2 Million Manual Scavengers. People whose work or rather the way of living is to collect shit of other people. Their work entails bending on all fours and going inside dry latrines of other people, collecting their shit with their bare hands and putting them in cane baskets, and carrying them on their heads and disposing them. (Please read Manual scavenging: Court summons Principal Secretaries: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2004/09/14/stories/2004091404061200.htm) For a second if we approach this Multiple National Identity Card proposal from the prespective of a Manual scavenger, what do you think his opinion would be? Don't you feel slightly confused here that howcome when as a nation we could not garner enough money to provide for Latrines for our population, we do not seem to have any budgetary problems in providing for a smart digital national identity card? I think that India is still a very poor country, where whatever money that the Government of India has needs to be disbursed carefully. I thnik everybody must have a right to the dignity of a human being before they can take pride in X or Y National identity. Don't you think so on similar lines? Don't you feel that we must debate the merits of this case, even as our government create a mechanism for documenting our identity. Warm regards Taha On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:01 PM, taraprakash wrote: > >> Dear Taha. Thanks for clarifying the difference between pahcan and >> shinakht. To my mind nishani comes from nishan (a mark of identity). The >> identity, as you have been suggesting, has a very wide semantic field >> however, for the issue at hand, we can do without much of what the entire >> field entails. When the sign id card serves as the signifier for an >> individual, the former serves as a nishani. I remember we used to have four >> library cards during our college days. That meant we could not be issued >> more than 4 books. Very often four books were not enough for our needs. But >> then there were students who did not use their library cards that often. So >> you would borrow their cards. But the rule was that if you were borrowing >> books on behalf of someone else, you had to show his/her college id card. >> There identity worked as nishani (proof) of the fact that x had authorized >> you to borrow books on x's card. >> >> You are right that it is not correct to translate nishani as identity, but >> nishani can definitely be translated as proof of someone's identity. In a >> plane journey you think you should know the guy sitting next to you. You >> remember that he is a poet but you are wondering which one. You have always >> confused Gulzar and Javed Akhtar with each other. You don't want to offend >> the guy by misidentifying him as the other. Then the guy takes out a book >> from his bag that has Javed Akhtar's name as the author and his photo on the >> book jacket. This book, hence, is the nishani or the proof of Javed Akhtar's >> identity. >> >> Having said that I must thank you for considering my perspectives worthy >> enough to respond. Sadly I won't be able to write more mails on the topic, >> primarily because net accessibility will remain sporradic to me for coming >> few weeks. Secondly and more importantly I don't have anything of >> significance to say on the topic. >> Before concluding I must state that even though the number assigned to us >> by the state towards our registration will be arbitrary, as you suggested, >> yet the relationship between the signifier, the national identity card, and >> the signnified, to whom it has been issued, will not be arbitrary as in the >> case of a Sassurean sign. Again, I need the card so that in the event of my >> getting killed by the state apparatuses, they will have less chance to >> negate my erstwhile existence. In the case of my being declared dead by my >> relatives, as happened with several people in UP, I should be able to show >> my identity card that has my name and my photograph, to prove that I am >> actually alive and those who have misappropriated my property are thugs. The >> identity card may not help anyone economically, it *can* save us from being >> harmed socially anb politically. >> If the state has failed in its duties, as your examples prove; like not >> being able to issue voter id cards for years, issuing multiple driving >> licenses to one individual or issuing an id card for someone who does not >> exist, it is not good for the citizens. The state should be forced to >> address these issues. I still believe that the citizens should ask for a >> multipurpose id card at birth which might be updated when the citizen >> becomes adult 18/21. The state should not force it on the citizens, the >> citizens must force the state to issue them. The state should not be allowed >> to use resource crunch as an excuse. Most citizens will be willing to pay >> for it if they don't have to pay separately for a passport and other such id >> cards separately. I can't say about other states, India definitely is >> financially sound enough to pay on behalf of its below poverty line >> citizens. That the state is not ideal and it cannot change is the statement >> of the pessimist. Progressive thinking has no scope for pessimism. >> >> Thanks >> TaraPrakash >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >> *To:* taraprakash >> *Cc:* reader-list at sarai.net >> *Sent:* Monday, December 29, 2008 10:49 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption >> >> Dear Taraprakash, >> >> Thank you for sharing that anecdote. >> >> I think what you say about the amnesic grandfather is pertinent just as it >> is pertinent to remember the profound words of our Lord Krishna, when he >> exhorts every one of us in Mahabharata about the significance Vasudev >> Kutumbkam, which of course means that in fact, insofar as this earth is >> concerned, we are one family. From Bible's, Torah's or Quran's perspective >> all of us here are children of Adam alay salam and Havva. >> >> Taking that line of argument forward one could wonder then why is it that >> if God made one earth for all of us, then there are so many divisions? Who >> are we to divide God's earth? >> >> Don't you feel that seen from the perspectives mentioned above entities >> like nation state and its residues like citizenship and identity seems so >> contrived? Don't you think the idea of a nation becomes an artificial, >> almost plastic, synthetic notion, if we take Lord Krishna's words as our >> basic premise? >> >> Even Patanjali, suggests us, again and again to go beyond Rajas and Tamas >> and reach the state of Sattva. Go beyond to where all forms of Buddhi >> (Knowledge), Anubahava (Cognition), Smriti (Memory), Prama (Truth), Aparma >> (Untruth), Samasya (Doubt), Tarka (Argument), Upaman (Comparison), Sabda >> (Testimony) are made redundant. Of course, as we all know, that for him, >> Purusha exists in all of us. We just need to realise Yogah Chittah Vritti >> Nirodah through Abhyas or practise. >> >> One sometimes wonder had we all been followers of Patanjali, this world >> would have been such a nice place to stay, however, dear Taraprakash, >> unfortunately, for you and me and everyone we live in a time where it is not >> so. The idea of a nation far from being contrived, is a dominant part of our >> reality which we have to confront and deal with on an every day basis. We >> are not coaxed or cajoled or pushed to remember that we are all part of the >> one Purusha but we are reminded of a national identity and we are asked to >> contribute our subjectivity to be archived in a national memory. >> >> Multiple purpose National Identity Card is just a token of our >> citizenship. But an important one though. >> >> You mentioned- >> "mere apne mere hone ki nishani maange" (my own people ask for my >> identity") >> >> A slight correction, I think, Nishani is not equal to identity. Pechan is, >> I think the correct word for identity and Shanakth for Identification, >> Shanakthi Kagaz would be Identification Papers. >> >> Nishani is more like a mark, a trace, which someone like Barthes, would >> deem it to be like a bit of information which is used to identify or >> pinpoint certain elements in time and space. The MNIC will give all us a >> number, which would be more like a Saussurean signifier, you know, an >> arbitrary sign which has netiher the resemblance nor an existential >> relationship to its referent. We or rather our subjectivity will be coded >> through an index, which will of course not resemble us but nevertheless, >> will have a real connection with us. Our photographs will be objectified as >> icons, which would claim to represent us by its similarity to us. We of >> course know, how successful the exercise,to issue Electronic Photo Identity >> Cards was. That even after eighteen long years, since they were introduced, >> the Government of India has successfully distributed photo Voter Identity >> Cards only two thirds of our population. >> >> But of course past failures must not deter us, or the fact that no where >> in this world had there been a model where there has been a positive co >> relationship between issuance of national identity cards and uplift of the >> poor or a negative co relationship between the issuance of a national >> identity card and complete extinction of illegitimate citizens must stop us. >> As you rightly suggested, that an amnesic grandfather requires his brood to >> be marked. >> >> I think we also need to ask this question to ourselves. Why do we need a >> Nishani (Mark) to identify ourselves to that man whom we call our >> grandfather? We know who he is, don't we? We know that we are his children's >> children? Maybe that grandfather of your friend was resourceful enough, rich >> enough to afford the price of branding all his grand children. Ideally we >> would all like our grandfather to be rich don't we. >> >> But dear Taraprakash, we don't live in an ideal world. We live in a real >> world where not all grandfathers are that rich. >> >> That some times the most pressing need for a grandfather is to take care >> of his grandchildren. See to it that they are clothed, that they are fed, >> that they are educated, that they have a future to look forward to, so that >> they can proudly go out there in this world and swear allegiance to their >> grandfathers name. Not because, they have an ugly mark on their for head as >> a patrimonial testimony or because they are absolutely certain that there >> can be no way with which other grandchildren of their village can dare to >> copy that mark but maybe because they are confident of the values that they >> have imbibed, that they have a use, an ability with which they can >> contribute for the betterment of their village. >> >> The question we need to ask is that, can our grandfather afford the luxury >> of a Nishani (Mark)? >> >> Warm regards >> >> Taha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 3:50 PM, taraprakash wrote: >> >>> Dear Taha and all. You have raised very valid questions in your mail. >>> "Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe >>> in perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare >>> state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of >>> insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we >>> know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we >>> can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves >>> but histories of our families?" >>> I wish I could answer those questions. In an ideal society all this >>> should not be the case, but we are not living in an ideal universe. A friend >>> of mine from Pakistan has many anecdotes about his amnesiac grand father. He >>> had 24 sons. To differentiate his sons from other kids in the neighborhood, >>> he had got tatooed the names on their hands. I wish the modern states were >>> not as large as they are now. But since we are, I believe all the children >>> need to remind our amnesiac father that they too belong to the family and >>> therefore, need being provided for. >>> >>> Yes sadly we have reached in the state of "mere apne mere hone ki nishani >>> maange" (my own people ask for my identity" >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >>> *To:* taraprakash >>> *Cc:* reader-list at sarai.net >>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:05 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption >>> >>> Dear Taraprakash, >>> >>> Thank you for your mail. >>> >>> The question is not whether you agree or disagree with me. Please do not >>> consider my posts as an exercise in public persuasion. Far from it, I would >>> rather think of them as an exercise in public questioning. If we are a >>> democracy then as citizens of a proud country we have a duty and an >>> obligation in following the rule of law. If a National identity card is >>> introduced then I will accept it. But as citizens we also have a duty and an >>> obligation to engage in public processes. Hence if the Government of India >>> has proposed that it intends to issue a National Identity card then I >>> believe all of us must think about it. And talk to each other about the >>> nature of that process, its history and so on. Reader list gives us this >>> space. And there is no harm in talking about it. >>> >>> Having said that, please allow me to say that I share your anxiety >>> regarding the need to have an identity document rather than not having one. >>> >>> Have you ever wondered that when individual family histories of most >>> Indians out date the history of independent India by many years then why do >>> we sometimes feel this insecurity or fear if do not have a piece of paper, a >>> token really, certifying who we are? >>> >>> Why is it that everyday millions of poor of our country have to bribe in >>> perhaps millions to get that piece of paper? If our State is a welfare >>> state, then why do we, even in the middle-classes, have to undergo bouts of >>> insecurity, apprehension, fear in the absence of identity documents? When we >>> know who we are or do we? When as far as our subjectivity is concerned, we >>> can be pretty sure and confident in telling others about not only ourselves >>> but histories of our families? >>> >>> Why is it that when we have in India a fairly rich history of the failure >>> of the State to capture all Indians under some sort of a documentation >>> regime, that goes back last one hundred and thirty years, that we still seem >>> to have faith in the Idea of a passport or an identity document some sort? >>> >>> Maybe if we start asking even more rudimentary questions about the >>> history of the passport or history of the ration card then we could perhaps >>> have a more distilled understanding of this need, which sometime seems >>> inevitable isn't it, to have an identity card rather than not have one. >>> >>> Warm regards >>> >>> Taha >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:05 AM, taraprakash wrote: >>> >>>> Now, I agree with you there for sure. Corruption is really a big problem >>>> of the country. I don't read much discussion on this kind of corruption on >>>> this list. In fact corruption does not seem to be part of any intellectual >>>> discourse these days. >>>> Still I don't consider corruption to be a good enough reason to >>>> outrightly reject this plan. As your mail suggested it is possible to make >>>> fake passports and driving licences but still the driving license and >>>> passport regime is on and we can't think of an alternative to it. Moreover, >>>> as far as I know, it is not a norm but an aberration. And finally I believe >>>> it is safer to have multiple (even fake) identities than to have none. Such >>>> an identity card regime will be useful to remind the state of the existence >>>> of the forgotten multitudinous citizenry. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" < >>>> 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:00 PM >>>> Subject: [Reader-list] In RTO, a licence for corruption >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Taraprakash, >>>>> >>>>> I am still not convinced about giving competence of data gathering >>>>> agencies. Please read the story below for more. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> >>>>> Taha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nagpur/In_RTO_a_licence_for_corruption/articleshow/3898438.cms >>>>> The Times of India. Nagpur Edition >>>>> In RTO, a licence for corruption >>>>> 27 Dec 2008, 0111 hrs IST, Vijay Pinjarkar, TNN >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In the year 2000, MLA Devendra Fadnavis had exposed the corruption at >>>>> the regional transport office >>>>> (RTO) Nagpur when he 'managed' to get two >>>>> driving licences issued. The first was in the name of a dead man. The >>>>> second licence — intended to be a political barb — was made for the >>>>> then chief minister, without the CM being present for the mandatory >>>>> driving test. >>>>> >>>>> However, a sting operation by TOI in August revealed that things have >>>>> failed to change even after eight years. The trail of corruption >>>>> continues in a more organised way in the RTO office which has been >>>>> virtually taken over by touts, enabling any person to obtain as many >>>>> number of duplicate licences by bypassing all rules. >>>>> >>>>> In the second week of July, my boss called me and narrated a mishap in >>>>> Mumbai in which three persons were crushed to death by a rashly driven >>>>> truck. When the driver was arrested, police seized nine driving >>>>> licences from him. This exposed the corrupt affairs in Mumbai RTO >>>>> office. Taking a cue from this incident, he asked me to check if I >>>>> could get a duplicate licence issued in my name even though I very >>>>> much had the original licence. >>>>> >>>>> When I went to the RTO office, I was greeted at the entrance by a >>>>> tout. I told him that I wanted a duplicate licence and lied that I had >>>>> lost my original one. He asked me to bring a copy of the police >>>>> complaint for the misplaced licence. "If that's not possible," he >>>>> said, "it would cost you Rs 500." The official charges to get a >>>>> duplicate licence are Rs 200. I protested that Rs 500 was too much. >>>>> >>>>> The broker gave me a neat break-up. "If you stand in the long queue, >>>>> it'll take time and the RTO staff will ask you copy of FIR. If you go >>>>> through me, it'll be easy. Out of Rs 500, I hardly get Rs 100, after >>>>> paying Rs 150 to the woman at the counter for out-of turn clearance of >>>>> forms. Rs 200 is paid towards smart card >>>>> fee besides Rs 50 to the computer clerk at the thumb impression >>>>> counter for early processing of cases." >>>>> >>>>> I trusted the broker, who has a pucca shop at the RTO gate, and gave >>>>> him Rs 500. He promised to deliver the licence in two days and asked >>>>> me to come around 4 pm for the thumb impression and photograph. Due to >>>>> load-shedding, I had to visit twice for this. The RTO staff hardly >>>>> works for four hours as the office doesn't have a generator. >>>>> >>>>> The next day, the broker made me stand in a long queue despite >>>>> promising otherwise. But even then, it took him almost 25 days to get >>>>> me the licence as against the couple of days he had sworn. >>>>> >>>>> Frustrated by the affairs, I finally told him I was a journalist and >>>>> that I would now take my duplicate licence directly from the RTO. The >>>>> broker was shocked. He grabbed me by the hand and took me to the woman >>>>> clerk, who issues licences and told her about me. Stunned, she said, >>>>> "Why did you approach him? You could have directly come to me." >>>>> However, all said and done, I got my licence in 10 minutes. The next >>>>> day, I went to officiating RTO Raj Bagri and offered to surrender the >>>>> duplicate licence. He returned it saying it was of no use to the RTO. >>>>> I told him the entire story. He laughed and could only say, "It's a >>>>> worrying factor." >>>>> >>>>> There were brokers who were ready to issue even more than two licences >>>>> to me. In the huge scale of corruption in our country, getting a >>>>> duplicate licence issued fraudulently may not seem like a big deal. >>>>> Until, that is, you remember that the hijackers of the Air India >>>>> flight from Kathmandu in 1998 had also obtained their bogus passports >>>>> on the strength of the driving licence procured through touts. >>>>> >>>>> Scary, isn't it? >>>>> >>>>> (While covering transport, Vijay Pinjarkar often goes the extra mile) >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 30 19:25:29 2008 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:55:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <783812.97997.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   I wonder what you found objectionable in the Dr. S Subramaniam (DSS) blog.    The question here is not whether the Hamas are terrorists or the Israelis are terrorist. The question is not whether the nature of action by the Israelis is correct. The question for DSS was "How India should act" or rather "What should India's attitude be towards terrorism".   When DSS talks about "emulating" the Israelis, he qualifies it by laying out the nature of "terrorism" faced by India, the source wherefrom it originates, and the attitudes India should adopt to tackle it. He mentions examples of those Israeli attitudes.   It is surprising that you have suggested a  connection between the current Israeli Strikes against Hamas with the DSS advice of "emulating Israel". It might be one of the deduced emulative options but nowhere does DSS suggest that it is """The Option""".   DSS says "...India has to reassess its policy options and think of non traditional measures for tackling this menace. In this, we have a lot to learn from both Israel and USA. No other Nation will come to our assistance when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the cleanup job. We have to fight our own battles, and we can. All it needs is political will."   What is objectionable in that?   As I wrote earlier, DSS is talking about "emulating" Israeli attitudes. To extract from his piece:   - "An Israeli Citizen, wherever he is, is protected by his country and Government."  (anything objectionable?)   - "Whenever an Israeli citizen or national interest is threatened by terrorists, the response by Israeli government is swift and decisive." (anything objectionable?)   - "Look at the way they responded to the death of their nationals in Mumbai Terror attack. A special plane with security officers came to pick up the dead and the Nation adopted the two year old Moshe as the son of the Nation. Even the brave nanny (an Indian National and not a Jew by religion), who protected and saved the child, was declared a National Hero and the highest civilian honour is being bestowed on her." (should that not be an attitude that every country should emulate?)   - "The funeral of the victims was attended by all political leaders from the President downwards. In contrast, neither the UPA Chairman nor the Prime Minister had time to call on the bereaved families nor attended the funerals. No awards have been announced for the brave security forces personnel, who gave their lives to save others. Many of our political leaders, irrespective of their hues, mouthed uncouth statements hurting the feelings of the affected families and the Nation." ( shouldnt India amend it's attitudes that appear to be on the disinterest edge of the opposite compared to the Israeli attitude?)   - "Wherever the enemies of Israelis were hiding, the State located them and brought them to justice." (what is objectionable in that attitude? there could only be a difference of opinion on what means should be adopted for the enemies to be 'brought to justice')    - "We all know where the masterminds of Terror- Dawood Ibrahim, Maulana Masood Azhar, Hafiz Mohammad Sayeed and others are. We know the locations of terrorist camps in POK-which is actually our territory illegally occupied by Pakistan. We know where terrorists are in Bangladesh and how they launch and orchestrate terrorist attacks against India. We have the where withal to neutralize them. What we sadly lack is the courage and political will do so." ( what is objectionable in that statement? if the actors are 'non-state' and outside the boundaries of India then is it unreasonable to suggest  adopting 'non-state' measures outside the boundries of India especially when the "State" harbouring the "non-state actors" appears to be complicit in the actions of the "non-state actors" or at least the shadowy fringes of the "state" appear to be complicit?)   - " Islamic Jehadis have repeatedly and openly voiced their intention to attack India. Hence the attacks will continue relentlessly unless they are stopped at the source." (is their anything untrue in that statement and the deduction?)   Since you provided the weblink, I cannot accuse of being disingenuous in posting only the "  They strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring standard international conventions and borders." example of the Israeli attitude to be emulated.   That particular example is not one I personally would favour for a variety of reasons. We have not yet reached that extreme end of exhausting options in my opinion.   Again the example is not important but the attitudes that DSS advocates should be emulated.   What is objectionable in that?   Kshmendra     --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza To: "Reader-list list" Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 6:02 PM Dear All, We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian casualties caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on Gaza a few days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of those who currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of a lasting and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no other way to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross state terrorism. Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose origins lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist Opposition' within the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with its own obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that holds the peace process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle of competitive retribution. Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in the perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no surprise to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of identity- based conflicts in South Asia. There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian 'blogsphere' who are already calling for 'India to Emulate Israel'. Some of them, such as this one, http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? pg=2&contentid=393780 come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) He says - "..A country which did not have a geographical existence before 1948 is continuing to show the way on how to respond to terrorism...They strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring standard international conventions and borders...India has to reassess its policy options and think of non traditional measures for tackling this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both Israel and USA." Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the former DG of NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not exactly an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who admires a bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of those). He is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of great responsibility in the security establishment in India. I sincerely hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated fringe that has no current influence in the corridors of power. However, especially at times like this, it becomes important to complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and Pakistanis (or so I hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors and isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been recently rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component within the spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that is outraged (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and lethal show of force in Gaza. And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are committed to combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have been condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So too, many in Israel today are willing to stand up and be called 'traitors' because they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this kind of action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' are worthy of being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who are being called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' for opposing militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine by their respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, in Israel, by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault on Gaza. May their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been reported far less in the international media in comparison to the protests across the Arab and Islamic world. regards, Shuddha ------------------------ 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in Gaza By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a mainstream but liberal Israeli Newspaper) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in the streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the massive Israel Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and hundreds more wounded. The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque toward the Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on horseback, surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. According to the protesters, Israel's military action in Gaza does not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. Advertisement "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of Gaza is meant to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said Matan Kaminer, a student who participated in the march. Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part of horse- mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee and in Bedouin villages in the Negev. 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- January-2009 issue http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- day-1-in.html Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in Gaza. It has come. This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to the early morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more hours. This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we will probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was their last morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, the 58-years old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the quiet weekend streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before sunset he would become part of statistics. A very favourable body count indeed for Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 Palestinians, as of this hour. Cheers! The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking surprise - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever to feel surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of angry protest and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to other activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel and the whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: "The Gaza war is the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", "Barak conducts his elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the border." At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by the Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by Hadash, Gush Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz grassroots network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and phone and email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an open planning meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at 7.30. Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both bombed Gaza and bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any effort to stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa and Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and Nazareth some came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on in their hometowns. The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, the Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police and riot police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars arriving and unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these ones don't carry pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to bring the war here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights t-shirt. On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing placards. "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - Our Victims!" / "War is not election s spin" / "No to the murder of innocents!" / "We Israelis say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" / "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, Stop the War!". "Livni, Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not Kill!" One slogan came up very often: "This is not my war!" It was written again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination of these. Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the Cinemateque building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee community in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to the refugees and not deport them. A young black woman came over, speaking of children in Congo, her homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle carcinogenic materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and give this cause the attention which it also deserves. By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded with over a thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel during the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever which the Israeli media is capable of. Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers started their rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after line, blocking all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable but organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. After some twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to the wonder of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. The compromise with the police was that the march take a route to the Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street traffic. The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street looked down from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting protesters: "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza and Sderot, Children Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the solution!" / Stop the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - Save the peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did you kill today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you power!" / "The blood is flowing for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is flowing for the polls of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to Negotiations!" Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most days would sound like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at the corner of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted police directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of "Police State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the organizers. "We have an appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates appear on the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of the press - our attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the voice of Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is broadcast from the towers across the street. "Liar, war criminal!" rises the shout as if answering from the street, and several young people broke through the police fences, trying to block the street - to be immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. It continued until half past nine when it was announced: "We are finished here for today, but we will continue to come back until it is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us to picket the police station where our friends are held." In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war reports from the south - carried a short report of the demonstration. The number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an obvious hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the opposition to the war. But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting mentioned at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 19:31:24 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:31:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reports of Protests against Israeli Air Strikes in Gaza In-Reply-To: <34bf33330812300516h3874d262y93be68ed8786d2d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <34bf33330812300516h3874d262y93be68ed8786d2d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70812300601x3f155f9at2666d8588fd92dba@mail.gmail.com> A POEM BY MAHMOUD DARWISH It is for you to be, or not to be, It is for you to create, or not to create. All existential questions, behind your shadow, are a farce, And the universe is your small notebook, and you are its creator. So write in it the paradise of genesis, Or do not write it, You, you are the question. What do you want? As you march from a legend, to a legend? A flag? What good have flags ever done? Have they ever protected a city from the shrapnel of a bomb? What do you want? A newspaper? Would the papers ever hatch a bird, or weave a grain? What do you want? Police? Do the police know where the small earth will get impregnated from the coming winds? What do you want? Sovereignty over ashes? While you are the master of our soul; the master of our ever-changing existence? So leave, For the place is not yours, nor are the garbage thrones. You are the freedom of creation, You are the creator of the roads, And you are the anti-thesis of this era. And leave, Poor, like a prayer, Barefoot, like a river in the path of rocks, And delayed, like a clove. You, you are the question. So leave to yourself, For you are larger than people's countries, Larger than the space of the guillotine. So leave to yourself, Resigned to the wisdom of your heart, Shrugging off the big cities, and the drawn sky, And building an earth under your hand's palm -- a tent, an idea, or a grain. So head to Golgotha, And climb with me, To return to the homeless soul its beginning. What do you want? For you are the master of our soul, The master of our ever-changing existence. You are the master of the ember, The master of the flame. How large the revolution, How narrow the journey, How grand the idea, How small the state! On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Isaac souweine wrote: > Dear Shuddha - > > Thanks for forwarding this. I have been trying to make some sense of these > events outside of the sadness of lost lives and the chilling spectre of what > I think you rightly call Israeli state terrorism. Some questions that are on > my mind: > > 1. The current defense minister and spokesmen for the assault (and possible > prime minister come February) is Ehud Barak. Definitely a member of the > elite power structure, but not I think a "Militant Zionist" in the sense > that you use the term below. What is going through the mind of this man? Is > his ultimate goal really the perpetuation of conflict? Or, if his goal is > some lasting, two-state solution, which I believe it probably is (this is > not a stupid man who believes in some fantasy of Palestinian extermination) > how do he and his co-leaders see this attack? What is the true agenda? > > 2. The protests reported below do not exactly sound like a groundswell. Such > reports aside, one must assume that a viable majority of the country > supports at some level the aggresion of their army. This is not a country > like the US where the army is sequestered form the people, where war can be > foisted on the people with minimal real impact. In Israel, calling up the > reserves means calling up the people, all of them! What then do the people > think? Again, I truly believe tha the majority accepts that a two-state > solution is inevitable and just. How then do they see this helping? If > anyone is reading material that gives insight into mainstream Israeli > opinion on the violence I would love to see it. > > 3. What vision does Hamas' leadership have for the future of this conflict? > Surely they know that their intentions to exterminate Israel are little more > than a rallying cry. So what then is the strategy? Why the low-level rocket > sniping, which is neither a cease fire nor a hard core militancy (of which > they are surely capable)? Did they perhaps provoke this attack to expose the > rage and terror of the Israeli state, in order to better their very shaky > position in the international community? More generally, what does it mean > when an extremist revolutionary movement is suddenly in charge of governing > nearly a million people? Are Hamas' leaders even in control of their own > fighters? > > In summary, I guess I am wondering whether all of this really "demonstrates > the willingness of those who currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the > chances of a lasting and durable peace with the Palestinian people". Or in > other words - how does the peace vs. security dichotomy truly function in > Israeli political life? What is the meaning of these categories in a country > that takes the possibility of extinction as a core part of its national > identity? I think back to the most recent war in Lebabnon, and how it felt > throughout the violence that the Israeli state was not really animated by > the concerns of the international community, and that Israeli popular > opinion turned against the war not because it was unjust but becuse it was > ineffective and poorly run. > > One final aside - I think your paranthetical comment about Hamas's origin is > perhaps ill-advised as it currently sits. It seems to me that it robs the > Palestinians of crucial agency regarding the character of their leadership. > I trust you are correct that Israel played a role in creating a > counter-balance to the PLO, (who would know if not you :-) but to throw this > nugget out without a larger discussion implies a rather too convenient > picture in which Israel makes history while Palestinians just experience it. > > > Yours, > Isaac > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> We are all aware of the terrible toll of unarmed civilian casualties >> caused by the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) air strike on Gaza a few >> days ago. It demonstrates yet again the willingness of those who >> currently hold power in Israeli to sabotage the chances of a lasting >> and durable peace with the Palestinian people. There is no other way >> to describe these air strikes other than as acts of gross state >> terrorism. >> >> Of course, Hamas, (which controls the West Bank, and whose origins >> lie in the cultivation by Israel of an 'Islamist Opposition' within >> the Palestinian ranks in the eighties and earlier ) with its own >> obduracy has contributed to the 'blowback' that holds the peace >> process in Israel-Palestine hostage to a never ending cycle of >> competitive retribution. >> >> Militant Zionists, Fundamentalist Islamists and inflexible >> Palestinian Nationalists have a joint vested interest in the >> perpetuation of conflict in a manner that should come as no surprise >> to those familiar with the faultlines and destinies of identity- >> based conflicts in South Asia. >> >> There are of course, a few stray voices in the Indian 'blogsphere' >> who are already calling for 'India to Emulate Israel'. Some of them, >> such as this one, >> >> http://blogs.expressindia.com/showblogdetails-comments.php? >> pg=2&contentid=393780 >> >> come from Dr. S. Subramaniam, IPS (Retd.) >> >> He says - >> >> "..A country which did not have a geographical existence before 1948 >> is continuing to show the way on how to respond to terrorism...They >> strike at the terrorist bases wherever they are, ignoring standard >> international conventions and borders...India has to reassess its >> policy options and think of non traditional measures for tackling >> this menace.In this, we have a lot to learn from both Israel and USA." >> >> Dr. Subramaniam has had the distinction of being the former DG of >> NSG (National Security Guards) CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) >> and Founder of SPG (Special Protection Group). So he is not exactly >> an audolescent Hindutva shadow warrior on testosterone who admires a >> bit of Israeli state muscle flexing (and there are lots of those). He >> is a former senior ranking officer who has held posts of great >> responsibility in the security establishment in India. I sincerely >> hope that his views represent the opinions of an isolated fringe that >> has no current influence in the corridors of power. >> >> However, especially at times like this, it becomes important to >> complicate the picture. Just as few Indians and Pakistanis (or so I >> hope) other than some hyperventilating television anchors and >> isolated armchair warriors within and without the military- >> intelligence complexes in India and Pakistan have been recently >> rooting for war, so too, there is a substantial component within the >> spectrum of Israeli public opinion and civil society that is outraged >> (and justly so) by the IDF's disproportionate and lethal show of >> force in Gaza. >> >> And just as many of those in India and Pakistan who are committed to >> combatting war hysteria and the hardening of postures have been >> condemned as 'traitors' by their jingoist peers. So too, many in >> Israel today are willing to stand up and be called 'traitors' because >> they condemn events like the attacks on Gaza. I think this kind of >> action that runs the risk of being called 'treason' are worthy of >> being honoured. Right now, I am rooting for all those who are being >> called, or run the risk of being called 'traitors' for opposing >> militarist options in India, Pakistan, Israel and Palestine by their >> respective 'uber-patriotic' peers. >> >> Please find below, a report and a reflection on protests, in Israel, >> by Israeli people, against the Israeli state's assault on Gaza. May >> their tribe increase. Characteristically, these have been reported >> far less in the international media in comparison to the protests >> across the Arab and Islamic world. >> >> regards, >> >> Shuddha >> >> ------------------------ >> >> 1. Hundreds of activists in Tel Aviv protest IAF strike in Gaza >> By Ofri Ilani, Haaretz Correspondent (Haaretz is a mainstream but >> liberal Israeli Newspaper) >> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050470.html >> >> Hundreds of left-wing and human rights activists marched in the >> streets of Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest the massive Israel >> Air Force offensive in Gaza that left at least 230 dead and hundreds >> more wounded. >> >> The protesters marched from Tel Aviv's Cinematheque toward the >> Defense Ministry offices. Police, some mounted on horseback, >> surrounded the protesters, arresting five of them. >> >> According to the protesters, Israel's military action in Gaza does >> not protect Israeli citizens or provide them security. >> Advertisement >> "No one can tell us that slaughtering the citizens of Gaza is meant >> to protect the citizens of Sderot and Ashkelon," said Matan Kaminer, >> a student who participated in the march. >> >> Some protesters complained of extraneous force on the part of horse- >> mounted police, but overall the march remained non-violent. >> >> Similar protests took place in Arab villages in the Galilee and in >> Bedouin villages in the Negev. >> >> 2. Onslaught on Gaza - protest on Day 1, in Tel-Aviv >> Report by Adam Keller for The Other Israel, December-2008-- >> January-2009 issue >> http://chet-justice.blogspot.com/2008/12/onslaught-on-gaza-protest-on- >> day-1-in.html >> >> Saturday, December 27 - a few minutes to midnight. War in Gaza. It >> has come. >> >> This morning, some of us got up with anxiety to listen to the early >> morning news, and go on hoping against hope for a few more hours. >> This morning, more than two hundred Gazans, whose names we will >> probably never know, woke up without guessing that is was their last >> morning. And also in the Israeli border town of Netivot, the 58-years >> old Beber Vaknin got up and went strolling through the quiet weekend >> streets of his hometown, not knowing that long before sunset he would >> become part of statistics. A very favourable body count indeed for >> Day 1 of Israel's newest war - one dead Israeli to 225 Palestinians, >> as of this hour. Cheers! >> >> The mass bombing and killing at 11.30 am came as a shocking surprise >> - even though there had been, in fact, no reason whatsoever to feel >> surprised. Out of our anger and outrage, sharp texts of angry protest >> and denunciation were feverishly written and hurled out to other >> activists, to the media, to anyone and everyone in Israel and the >> whole world who might possibly be willing to listen: "The Gaza war is >> the vicious folly of a bankrupt government", "Barak conducts his >> elections campaign by bloodshed on both sides of the border." >> >> At record speed, a rendezvous for protest was suggested by the >> Coalition of Women for Peace and quickly taken up by Hadash, Gush >> Shalom, the Anarchists, Tarabut and also the Meretz grassroots >> network. The message spread among all by word of mouth and phone and >> email and SMS and Facebook: "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at >> 6.00 pm for >> >> "Stop the War! Stop the War! Gather at 6.00 pm for an open planning >> meeting at the Tel Aviv Cinemateque Square. We march out at 7.30. >> Come one, come all!" Friends were contacted in both bombed Gaza and >> bombed Sderot, both giving their heartfelt support to any effort to >> stop the madness. Transportation was improvised from Haifa and >> Jerusalem, and even from the Arab towns of Tyra and Nazareth some >> came to Tel-Aviv, though there were demonstrations going on in their >> hometowns. >> >> The police, too, had somehow heard of it. Long before six, the >> Cinemateque was surrounded on all sides - ordinary police and riot >> police and mounted police, and more and more patrol cars arriving and >> unloading additional ones every minute. "Look, these ones don't carry >> pistols - they have automatic rifles! Do they intend to bring the war >> here, too?" whispered a girl in an Animal Rights t-shirt. >> >> On the side a dozen youngsters were intensively preparing placards. >> >> "Stop the massacre!" / "Olmert's War - Our Victims!" / "War is not >> election s spin" / "No to the murder of innocents!" / "We Israelis >> say: The Government of Israel perpetrates War Crimes!" / >> "International Intervention Now!" / "EU, Stop the War!". "Livni, >> Murder is not Feminist!" / "Thou Shalt Not Kill!" >> >> One slogan came up very often: "This is not my war!" It was written >> again and again in Hebrew, Arabic, English or a combination of these. >> >> Meanwhile, there was an event taking place inside the Cinemateque >> building, planned long in advance, of the African refugee community >> in Israel›calling upon the authorities to give asylum to the refugees >> and not deport them. >> >> A young black woman came over, speaking of children in Congo, her >> homeland, being forced to work at mines and handle carcinogenic >> materials. The circumstances didn't allow to go in and give this >> cause the attention which it also deserves. >> >> By seven o'clock, the Cinemateque Square was crowded with over a >> thousand present. More than what one would expect in Israel during >> the very first hours of a war, amidst the kind of war fever which the >> Israeli media is capable of. >> >> Lines were formed, banners unfurled, and the drummers started their >> rhythm - but the police stretched their own line after line, blocking >> all exits. A large-scale violent clash seemed inevitable but >> organizers called out: Stop! Wait! and began negotiating. After some >> twenty tense minutes the call was sounded: Forward! and to the wonder >> of all, the police ranks parted to let protesters through. >> >> The compromise with the police was that the march take a route to the >> Ministry of Defence avoiding interference with main street traffic. >> The inhabitants of the normally tranquil Sprintzak Street looked down >> from their balconies to the ongoing stream of chanting protesters: >> >> "Jews and Arabs Refuse to be Enemies!" / In Gaza and Sderot, Children >> Want to Live!" / War is a disaster - Peace is the solution!" / Stop >> the War! Return to the Truce!" / Silence the guns - Save the >> peoples!" / Barak, Barak, hey, hey, hey - How many did you kill >> today?" / "Bloodshed will not buy you power!" / "The blood is flowing >> for the ministers' prestige!" / "The blood is flowing for the polls >> of the corrupt parties!" / "No to War! - Back to Negotiations!" >> >> Even "No to War! - Yes to Peace!", which on most days would sound >> like a naive truism, was today a sharp radical message. >> >> For a considerable while, police did not intervene, but at the corner >> of Kaplan Street there was suddenly a charge of the mounted police >> directly into the crowd, a scuffle and angry shouts of "Police >> State!" - "Forward, forward!" called the organizers. "We have an >> appointment with Olmert at the Ministry of Defence." >> >> Several hundred metres to the right and the Ministry gates appear on >> the far side of the street. "Ladies and gentlemen of the press - our >> attack on Gaza today was surgical an pin-pointed", the voice of >> Olmert on the radio, which some activists put on, is broadcast from >> the towers across the street. "Liar, war criminal!" rises the shout >> as if answering from the street, and several young people broke >> through the police fences, trying to block the street - to be >> immediately dragged into the waiting patrol cars. >> >> It continued until half past nine when it was announced: "We are >> finished here for today, but we will continue to come back until it >> is over. Anyone willing to spend some more hours, join us to picket >> the police station where our friends are held." >> >> In the bus, on the way home, the radio - amidst all the war reports >> from the south - carried a short report of the demonstration. The >> number of protesters was given as two hundred... It was an obvious >> hostile reporting, a way of trying to diminish the opposition to the >> war. >> >> But maybe, one should not be too discouraged with getting mentioned >> at all, on such a day of media-orchestrated war euphoria. >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 21:18:57 2008 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:18:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored Message-ID: Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored Monday, 29 December 2008 We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force. Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course. The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv. By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said. Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly. Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do? Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges. Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word. We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level. Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles. 2008 Independent News and Media Publication: The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-leaders-lie-civilians-die-and-lessons-of-history-are-ignored-1215045.html From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 21:20:52 2008 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:20:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Johann Hari: The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling Message-ID: Johann Hari: The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling Monday, 29 December 2008 The world isn't just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in Gaza; we are watching it self-harm. This morning, and tomorrow morning, and every morning until this punishment beating ends, the young people of the Gaza Strip are going to be more filled with hate, and more determined to fight back, with stones or suicide vests or rockets. Israeli leaders have convinced themselves that the harder you beat the Palestinians, the softer they will become. But when this is over, the rage against Israelis will have hardened, and the same old compromises will still be waiting by the roadside of history, untended and unmade. To understand how frightening it is to be a Gazan this morning, you need to have stood in that small slab of concrete by the Mediterranean and smelled the claustrophobia. The Gaza Strip is smaller than the Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people who can never leave. They live out their lives on top of each other, jobless and hungry, in vast, sagging tower blocks. From the top floor, you can often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean, and Israeli barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall – as they are doing now with more deadly force than at any time since 1967 – there is nowhere to hide. There will now be a war over the story of this war. The Israeli government says, "We withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and in return we got Hamas and Qassam rockets being rained on our cities. Sixteen civilians have been murdered. How many more are we supposed to sacrifice?" It is a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it, but it is also filled with holes. If we want to understand the reality and really stop the rockets, we need to rewind a few years and view the run-up to this war dispassionately. The Israeli government did indeed withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005 – in order to be able to intensify control of the West Bank. Ariel Sharon's senior adviser, Dov Weisglass, was unequivocal about this, explaining: "The disengagement [from Gaza] is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians... this whole package that is called the Palestinian state has been removed from our agenda indefinitely." Ordinary Palestinians were horrified by this, and by the fetid corruption of their own Fatah leaders, so they voted for Hamas. It certainly wouldn't have been my choice – an Islamist party is antithetical to all my convictions - but we have to be honest. It was a free and democratic election, and it was not a rejection of a two-state solution. The most detailed polling of Palestinians, by the University of Maryland, found that 72 per cent want a two-state solution on the 1967 borders, while fewer than 20 per cent want to reclaim the whole of historic Palestine. So, partly in response to this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long, long ceasefire and a de facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its legal borders. Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine – but not enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food. It was in this context – under a collective punishment designed to topple a democracy – that some forces within Gaza did something immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities. These rockets have killed 16 Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent: targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of civilians when it has been terrorising civilians as a matter of state policy. The American and European governments are responding with a lop-sidedness that ignores these realities. They say that Israel cannot be expected to negotiate while under rocket fire, but they demand that the Palestinians do so under siege in Gaza and violent military occupation in the West Bank. Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms." Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet – high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these terms. The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise. The rejectionists on both sides – from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to Bibi Netanyahu of Israel – would then be marginalised. It is the only path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic process with Hamas." Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat by the Palestinians. It means the Israelis can keep the slabs of the West Bank on "their" side of the wall. It means they keep the largest settlements and control the water supply. And it means a divided Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision: they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it is blockading and bombing today, and compromise with them. The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: "Israel's war with Gaza has to be the most one-sided on earth... If the point is to end it, or at least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas's court – it is in ours." The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-true-story-behind-this-war-is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html From tasveerghar at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 22:44:26 2008 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:44:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Newsletter: January 2009 Message-ID: <484c1050812300914l75813e74l8356862ab539e5c4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends A very happy new year, 2009, and a warm welcome to Tasveer Ghar (the House of Pictures), a digital archive of South Asian popular visual culture We are delighted to announce the following new exciting projects and features of our growing archive: 1. The Priya Paul Collection of Visual Popular Art at Tasveerghar: Priya Paul, a well known Indian entrepreneur and the current Chairperson of Apeejay Park Hotels, has been an ardent collector of Indian art, contemporary as well as popular/archival art. Her collection of old posters, calendars, postcards, commercial advertisements, textile labels and cinema posters, painstakingly accumulated over several decades, is one of the finest archives of such ephemera in India. Tasveer Ghar was commissioned to digitize and archive this important collection in 2008. Each image needed careful handling, cleaning, scanning, digital photography, classification, and creation of detailed metadata. It took more than 3 months to physically handle and scan the images into raw digital data. Part of the work was funded by the Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" at Heidelberg University. The formatting and digital restoration of all files as well as the metadata creation is still ongoing. It is estimated that when we are all done, we will have the digital versions of over 5000 images in the archive covering a broad range of subjects including Indian nationalism, Hindu mythology, Islamic iconography, commercial advertisements, popular cinema, and portraits. This digital image archive will soon be available on Tasveer Ghar's website for all to see and benefit from. Specified thematic image-clusters would also be used by specialists/scholars to write visual essays. We also present here a short video interview of Priya Paul about her art collection (recorded in October 2008). 2. New Grant from the German Research Foundation (DFG): Tasveer Ghar has received a generous grant of three years of funding from the German Research Foundation. This grant emerges from Tasveer Ghar's collaboration with Heidelberg University's new Cluster of Excellence, "Asia and Europe in a Global Context. Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows" (see http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/Plone). This grant will enable Tasveer Ghar to launch a new initiative on Eurasian Muslim Popular Visual Culture, as well as strengthen our capacity to work across and beyond the South Asian region from Delhi, and develop institutional ties with the Cluster members at the Karl Jaspers Centre, Heidelberg, as well as international partners. Our collaboration with Heidelberg University's Cluster of Excellence will lead us to track (a) the flows of images and concepts between Europe and Asia, and within Asia; and (b) further ongoing collaboration with European and Asian institutions/scholars/ students/practitioners. The moving and still images collected and tagged in this process will be fed into already-existing image archives of both Tasveer Ghar and the Karl Jaspers Centre. 3. New Virtual Galleries of the Tasveer Ghar Fellows of 2008: Tasveer Ghar awarded fellowships to 4 scholars on the theme: "Kaleidoscopic Sites and Sights: The Printed Visual Culture/s of Religious Pluralism". The work of these fellows is coming to an end and will soon be available in the form of virtual galleries on the following topics: (a) Religious Iconography in the Public Sphere - Painted and Tile Gods Adorning the Streets. (by Shirly Abraham and Amit Madhesiya) (b) Outside the Imambara: The Lives of Pilgrimage Souvenirs (by Subah Dayal and Suzanne Schulz) (c) Exploring Ravidas, Understanding a Meeting Point of Faiths and Resistance (by Daljit Ami) (d) Challenging Dominance: The Visual Repertoire of the Bonallu Festival and Subaltern shrines in Hyderabad (by Joe Christopher and Alice Sampson) Kindly visit our website for more exciting material scheduled to be featured here soon. As announced earlier, we look forward to your participation in the building of our popular arts archive by contributing interesting images. Thanks Christiane Brosius Sumathi Ramaswamy Manishita Dass Yousuf Saeed -- http://www.tasveerghar.net From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 22:59:29 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:59:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Irrelevance of Art by Keshav Malik Message-ID: <47e122a70812300929y3ed60b0oc2c184a4f2f34996@mail.gmail.com> THE IRRELEVANCE OF ART This subject has a desirable poetic ambiguity - - layers of possible meaning. As it stands the sentence is incomplete; it waits for us to give it what import we will. Some eminent artists however may take fright, as though the carpet of their lives (or livelihood) was being snatched from under their feet. What is irrelevance? It can mean the inapplicable, the unessential, the inapposite, that is, something that does not apply to the matter in hand, that which is not to the point, so on and so forth. And what of the overtones of the expression art? … this as we know refers to that particular human skill which exploiting memory and imagination creates both the beauty of pure science and the magic of painting, sculpture, architecture, etc. etc. The question is, whether in an age where the preponderant mental activity of society is given over to practical scientific or sociological research of high complexity as to industrial or related developments, where do the fine arts come in? ……ergo what degree of relevance can they have (or do have) in the prevailing directions of a civilization driven to amass mechanical power? Not long ago the relationship between the seemingly disparate constituents of human culture was close. Functions and utility were bound together to the intangibles of dream, if one may call it so. The inner or private along with the social man, (i.e. the total lore of culture) would then find life enhancement. The cloth, so to say, of the conative, cognitive and the affective being of the individual member of that culture was whole. It appears there was, then, little split in these human faculties. Here was at once a simpler and yet more unified kind of existence, a sharing by members of such a society in mental or ideal pictures is probable. Art under such a cultural existence would inform the total activity of the given society, and not merely be a special occasion. Art as noun (or made object) and art as a verb (as activity) would not be easily found disjuncted. Art and ethic, at the same time, must have been bound together, as much as the functional and fine. Again, idea and sensation could have in all probability been in unbroken wedlock without any total separation as later on. Only thus could creative feeling be engendered. These are conjectures, not of a past paradise (a world often of crass social inequalities) but of a psychic unity however circumscribed though it may have been in its conception. In such a cultural situation nothing, in all likelihood, would have been undertaken without some trace of art whether as in human relationships or in the application on pen to paper. Dark Questions of self-doubt would therefore not arise. In our own time- - and as that time increasingly finds a distinct profile - - there appears a growing estrangement between the various faculties in the human soul. There is, for one thing, an increasing isolation. Many benefits would seem to accrue almost as a bonus to the overall society, because of such isolation but also to lead to a kind of mindlessness. What is the bonus I mention? …… a growing plentifulness of things of use as well as an inexhaustible stock of information which can be of social service. By and large, both things of use and the information, which is fed into the mind …… are without claims or pretensions to art. Both products are end products of diligence; even though looking back into historical time there was behind such productivity more than mere diligence - - there was, too, a personal ethic as well as an imaginative insight which earnestly set out to search for life-enhancing truth rather than to enrich physical existence. But the latter day, vigorously and controlled organized scientific research is another cultural story and it makes a different kind of human being, a less spontaneous one. The question of art or insight enters into the new sciences but merely as means than as the delight of comprehension. Thus, if such reading into cultural dynamics be anywhere near the mark, one can say with fair accuracy that the place of whatever we call art - - active as verb - - has become dubious, or at least that it has become so insignificant that it now needs must discover a new role for itself to play i.e. in the remaking of the human image. To my mind it is the quantities calculating intellect which is in absolute command of the human situation. Allied to politics or state power this it is which is bending a guileless or malleable man to its imperious will, both for good and much evil. This intellect it is which fires the imagination of the majority of mankind today no matter under which system of governance. I believe this sort of vision (if it may be termed that) has great powers of attraction over the larger proportion of the youth of today (despite protesters in the western world). To seem to believe in the absolute objectivity of scientific measurement and reasoning endows confidence, certainty, definiteness to its votaries, even as the practical consequences of that activity (for citizen and state) are physical power (speed, movement, masterly control). Then, also, there are those not inconsiderable creature (not to be scoffed at) comforts - - quite distinct i.e. from the possibility of satisfying elementary human needs connected to the pursuit of practical science. Need, comfort and luxury - - all three - - can be satisfied by benevolent technic; if the first of these three categories (need) caters well to the simple and demanding body, so to speak, the second and third i.e. comfort and luxury are personal choices dependent on mental culture, sensibility and so on. One is potentially free to accept them or reject them- - on the basis of ones scheme of core values. However, the culture as it has come into being does still seem to need the dream but which in its case is no more than an artful recreation of reality as entertainment, not as personal ethic. The human routine is increasingly desacrilized, dehusked of the nuances of sentiment, of guiding symbol, of cultural memory. In other words, that particular synthesizing power (which is another name for awareness of self as person, and which entails inwardness - - the power to voluntarily stop the purely ongoing outward activity, no matter how grand, which is not related to a central scheme of values) is lost to human culture. The inward self I speak of creates a quiet but deep resistance against mere glitter (often only a reflection of power). Such inwardness is ground for ethical as well as aesthetic experience, and both states of being are one and in a vital sense inseparable, though one severs them for the sake of analytic understanding. In my opinion the essential trend in the presently obtaining ideal of the human personality is such as goes against the grain of art i.e; of that style or form of living which is self-conscious and self-creating, even though only through the instrumentality of humble craft or human dialogue. The new man, it is possible, has been freed of the need for a deeper or conscious realization of values, and is now anchored in a carefree impulsive existence. This diagnosis bristles with difficulties, but in a short essay it is all I can do to debate my point. If you look around you, do you not observe the diminishment of the arts in the scheme of things or rather of the power of that personality which practices art as a life discipline? Art may be a discipline as exacting as the military drill or, if you will, as elevated as spiritual exercises. But in a society such as we have become, or are becoming, the enchantments of a folk culture vanish as those of the high cultural traditions of a developed conscience or consciousness. These qualities are the first casualties always and they can only be preserved by individual dedication much as the monks in Europe preserved sweetness and light in the darkness of the surrounding barbaric ages. If however we will not be second fiddle to the culture of collectivity and raw technology - - as designers, decorators or entertainers -- but be the creators of a different environment, a much more exacting effort will have to be entailed; not satisfaction with an imaginary self importance in the body-politic, it will amount to the task of creating a self rooted in the human community, a self recreating a fresh and luminous image of mankind; of the human remaking himself through imaginative means. I believe this is not really happening and indeed that human beings are flying apart in contrary directions; there is a failure somewhere in the technological mind's otherwise vast successes. What the artists have to create is imaginative space in which the shackled human mind may find humanity and mental freedom. Artists are judged by their works, that is the test; but this is being a little too literal; without the personal environment, without guarding his vertically aspiring nature an artist could not give us the catalytic, self-renewing art. Art is not only design and colour, it is plus and much more; it is the inner environment of thought and feeling and life urgency; one responds to it without quite being able to tell precisely why. But one knows it when the thing happens to one. The experience is transformative. I believe there is a diminishment in our power to experience such ideated or imaginative states of being, and that to this extent art has become irrelevant to the larger purposes of collective human existence. The sundering of the arts, one from the other, an end to their interfusing and interpenetrating, has led to a grave loss in the affects of art. No man is an island nor any art can be entirely so. Art cannot be a specialism neither in form nor content, neither in technique nor intention except at the cost of emasculation. The 'irrelevance' of art in our time follows logically from each of the arts standing with back to the other. They must instead stand equal but linked, mutually influencing, collectively articulating the aspirations and the deep struggling awarenesses of the humane society. And of course, in an outward sense, a new world society is in the process of being born. But who will bring up this new child to maturity? …… this remains to be seen. For the moment artists and savants exist only on sufferance, or by dint of their political wits, less often by the courage of their convictions. They are too often followers, not among the leaders of the human mind. They have no too conscious a sense of their potential spiritual role, that adventure of being architects of freedom of spirit. Thus, their redundance; the world could very well go on without them and their kith, whereas the world will certainly not do without the professions which provide mankind with bread and medicine and wonders. How shall the artists make themselves indispensable, how lodge their visions in the eyes or soul of a self-hypnotized society? This remains to be seen. It is clear the mankind of today can do without the so-called 'soul' or almost so; and that it can live by the fantasy or political religion which State, factory made entertainment or tailored ideology so easily dispense. The competition therefore is stiff, with all the disadvantages to art, that is, to the beating heart. Art cannot, I think, compete with other mentalities, other sensibilities. It will have to stand its ground, know what that ground is, so as to become relevant once again. It will not do to be peevish, or practice the attitude of dog eat poor dog; to touch the toes of untoppled idols. Undillettantish art ought not only delight, it must cauterize the sores on the skin of the common mind; chastise its illusions and make-believes. At least the still-in-making art of this country has yet to fulfill this pressing task- - and that not by looking down on the scientific professions and the wielders of power but by digesting, masticating the changes in the world view and by making a new, imaginative, meaning-fraught picture of human existence presently in the doldrums. Then art may become relevant. It may then answer to man's pressing anxieties, be the lodestar and anchor of lost souls. WHY ART? Some of these notes on the life of art are from my notebooks, and reading. If, in some way, they are disconnected, I pray that at least a few of them bear upon our current concerns, as artists, art lovers, and above all as human beings. Technique, as I would define it, involves an artist's way with paint and brush or his management of textures etc; it involves also a definition of his or her stance towards life. It involves a dynamic alertness that mediates between the origins of feeling in memory and experience, and the formal strategies that express these in a work of art. It is that whole creative effort, to bring the meaning of experience within the jurisdiction of foolproof form. * Everywhere today we are told by higher authority that our human resources are to be used, that our nation itself means to use everything it has: rockets, jets, the inventions, indeed every scrap of fact for the well-being of the nation. But still, there is one kind of knowledge, infinitely precious, time- resistant, and not to be passed between generations, whose uses, if any, are its own: for it is the goal of life itself - - intrinsic. I mean that comes from the arts. It seems to me that the power of this knowledge is currently pooh-poohed. And, also it seems to me, that we of the day cut ourselves off, that we impoverish ourselves right here. I think that we are underestimating our most vital source of personal power, one that we precisely need in our formulized times. At a time when it is hard to make sense of the giant clusters of events that the daily newspaper treats us to, it is high time to remember this other kind of knowledge, and love, which has forever been a way of reaching complexes of emotions and relationships, the attitude that is like the attitude of science, but with significant and beautiful distinctions from it - - the attitude that equips our imagination to deal with our inner lives - - the attitude of art, for art is above all an approach to the truth of feeling. But you may well ask, how do we use feelings, how do we use truth? Because it helps us face the confused scene of life with equanimity, and so that we can remain whole instead of being fragments. Moment to moment we can grow, if we can bring ourselves to meet these moments with our full being. Art of course does not answer all our needs. But still, art it is which imagines and makes and gives us the distilled imaginings. Because you have imagined love, you may well not have loved at all. But still, we - - the viewers - - can use that imagining, that is, by building it into ourselves, for otherwise we will be left with nothing but illusions. Art is action, but it does not cause action, it prepares us for thought Art is not a world, but a knowing of the world. Art prepares us. Art is practiced by artist, and the sympathetic viewer. It is not, to repeat, a means to an end, unless that end is the total imaginative experience of life. That experience will have meaning. It will apply to your life; and it is more likely to lead it to a particular kind of action, that is, you are likely go most further into the world, further into yourself, toward the further experiences of which life is capable. Art and nature are imitations, not of each other, but of a third thing - - both are images of the real, of that spectral and vivid reality that employs all means to manifest it. If we fear it in art, we fear it in nature, and our fear brings it on ourselves in the most unanswerable ways. The implications for society and for the individual are far reaching. People want these communications, that are in the immediacy of art. They need it. The fear of art is a complicated and civilized repression of that need. We wish to be told, in the most memorable way, what we have been meaning all along. * The moment of art is a ritual moment, a moment of proof. There is, thus, strength in the true moment of art. And there is thereby deep pride in art's meanings and in its truths. But people still ask what is the use of art; let us ask instead what is the use of truth. Is not truth the end, has it no human use? Does it lead to nothing? The uses of the truth of art is its communications. Great art is for a vertically aspiring being. Hence its close connection with the aristocracy of spirit. Only this aristocracy, even in a mass society is a need to humanize mankind. Art itself could point a way to leading a life as if it were a work of art that we were creating, and thereby ourselves becoming in some sense great works of the spirit. How is this to be done, by a great refinement of passions. * Real art never has, nor should represent, but present. And this art is based on actuality, but exists independently, without looking to the springboard from which it launches itself into the ocean of what is. Real art is an IT, and so may well be in line with what our ancient seers have perceived. But, alas, all arts once used to be aspirational only a few now are so. * I'm of the view, that the currently popular art works of the day are often a derivation from the more professional individual creators, and not a spontaneous up-surging. Genuine art is a new way of feeling, seeing, and expressing (with whatever means) hermetical truth. But by popular art it is not meant the arts of a rural or tribal society. Their arts are fully genuine, but like under-bush to the forest with tall trees of individual arts. * Once upon a time a great work of art entranced one for a moment no matter how brief, into accepting it as a complete world in which one could live and be oneself completely and which one left only because ecstasy is timeless, and we being the creatures of time, time sweeps us on and does not allow us to remain ecstatic for more than one moment. But that moment may mark us for life with the vision as the promise of a happiness that fills us with sweet yearnings for its realization. * Oh no longer so. A masterpiece is now no longer the object of an abandoned contemplation but mechanism interesting only to the extent that it reveals how it is done, where it is done, when it was done, and why it was done; It is no longer a garden enclosed, a paradise of the spirit and the senses but a springboard for leaps away from the work of art. That being so, interest in the art object has ceased to be intrinsic. Its inspiring, illuminating, transporting, life enhancing properties no longer seem to affect the urban spectator. The commentary furnished by us critics of art no longer refers to the visible object but interprets the strictly private life of the artist. This surely is a kind of slaughter of things of the spirit. * The artist of the day likes to believe that his one ambition is to exercise his creative functions by expressing what is most essential in himself. Would it were so! In reality he may want to sell himself to the public and so go to market with his wares. But if none will acquiesce in those wares he curses and becomes a discontented member of society, or else a sullen solitary. This fact is proof of how little we are out and out individual, how much members of a group and how much our happiness and way of life depends on the values the group puts on our output. The post-humus game of recognition, even if believed in by a hardy few, is cold comfort and apt to be an expression of the individual's rebellion against his group. The artist's worst bitterness is directed against the critic who does not accept his product as the star of the hour but insists on evaluating it with the standards he, the critic, applies to the art of all ages, and that which has always been regarded as worthiest of surviving. There may be no absolutes in art, but so long as we stand, gasp, breathe and react to temperature, for so long there will be fixed, although oscillating relations and the demand they make on works of art. There is in fact a relative absolute in art, which is determined by our psycho-physiological conditions and our mental preparation. * Everything we are aware of, every faint change within us that reaches consciousness and affects us, is of the mind, is mental. The business of art is to extend the horizon of consciousness in width, depth but in height as well. Art lies in that very mental region for it is based on processes. What is under the threshold of consciousness belongs to physiology and to aesthetics, art theory or art history; Art is ideated life, well, if not life itself, but perhaps as equally important. * Every individual who feels the need for human society must learn his or her responsibility towards art, almost as towards life. He must avoid encouraging the undesirable, let alone the bestializing forms, not only of life, but of art as well. This he can do, if he takes the trouble to educate himself for the ideated quite as he does the actual world. For art can offer the surest escape from the threatening forces of a world suicidally at war with itself. Therefore art must not be reckless, freakish, fantastic, but must console and ennoble and transport us from the workday world to the realm of ideated joy, that is, the joy of the deeply experiencing mind. Works of art, in other words, act on us as living entities do. * In visual art, the aesthetic moment is the fitting instant so brief as to be almost timeless. When the spectator is at one with the work of art he is looking at, or with actuality of any kind that the spectator himself sees in terms of art, as form and colour, he ceases to be his ordinary self, and the picture, sculpture, or whatever, is no longer outside him. The two become one, and the spectator is possessed of a much richer awareness. This is the moment of supreme vision. And that vision is the core of culture, and which is what helps ensure it. All arts then must work together in order to create the most comprehensive art of all, a humanized society and its glory - - the humanized person. ***** -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 23:42:21 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:12:21 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] We Did It! Rightist-Islamists Defeated In Bangladesh Message-ID: After 2 years of caretaker/army rule in Bangladesh, finally yesterday return to democracy via elections. The fantastic news is that the Islamist parties were wiped out. An absolute and crushing defeat. In 2001 elections, the Jamaat e Islami increased from 3 seats to 17 seats in Parliament. Jamaat's leaders grabbed control of two powerful ministries. We had to watch alleged 1971 war criminal Nizami negotiate (as Industries Minister) with Ratan Tata of India (to no one's surprise, Tata decided not to invest). We watched the Islamists gradually infiltrate schools, banks, NGOs, institutions. I was a wary cassandra, warning that the "Islamists" (obligatory quotes) could do even better in 2008 elections. If they did, the Sharia-fication project would find a new test laboratory. The recent attacks by fringe "Islamist" groups on statues, theater plays, and cultural events, fueled the fear that the Islamist bloc was winning. >From that fear came all my op-eds of last two months. Alarmist and fight-back language. In last few weeks, felt energized again with all the secular groups mobilizing nationwide. To everyone's delight, the election has delivered a bruising defeat to the entire Rightist-Islamist coalition-- both the right-wing BNP ("vote for us to save country and Islam") and Jamaat e Islami ("Allah's Law"). People are using apocalyptic/jubilant language like "wiped off the map" and "obliterated". Facebook has status messages that say "Proud 2 B Bangladeshi Today" (or "It's 1970 Again" or "My Taxes Won't Pay For War Criminals To Fly Our Flag"). Triumphalist sentiment has it's own limitations, but today I'm cautiously optimistic... The center-left Awami League led "Grand Alliance" coalition captured a gigantic majority of 262 seats. The BNP, in power for last 5 years (before chaos over rigged elections led to the Army stepping in) have only 29 seats. The Jamaat e Islami in tatters at 2 seats. Islami Oikko Jote, with whom many of us clashed on street and printed page over last few years, 0 seats! I am looking at the details and realizing even two small left parties-- Workers Party (2 seats) and JSD/Socialist (3 seats) have out-performed the Islamist bloc. Sweet. But there's no reason to relax. The right-islamist coalition won't just roll over and accept annihilation. And there's a need to be vigilant about the victors as well. Already there's fear as to whether the center-left AL will lose its head with this giant victory. In its past, the Awami League's 1970 election victory led to the breakup of Pakistan and independence of Bangladesh in 1971. But from 72-75, the AL lost its bearings, forming paramilitary squads, crushing socialist+maoist opposition groups (there were no Islamists then) and eventually installing one-party rule. That gave the excuse for the military coup in 1975 that killed liberation war leader Sheikh Mujib and his entire family (except Sheikh Hasina who was out of the country, and now leads her father's Awami League party). But we hope, really hope, they have learned from history's mistakes. Because I spent so much time outside Bangladesh, there's confusion about my age. With all the hype about the "youth vote", I was called "torun" (youth) on a TV talk show-- to which my friend responded in an SMS "If you're torun, then I'm child labor". However, torun or not, I was a first-time voter. Daily Star printed my diary of that experience--> Yes I Voted Daily Star, December 30, 2008 http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=69228 ======================================================== Election Day Photos & Later Begums On TV http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=67057&l=881d7&id=636285043 ======================================================== And here's an op-ed in UK Guardian by Asif Saleh, director of Drishtipat, an organization I volunteer for Daring To Dream Asif Saleh http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/30/bangladesh ======================================================== From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 31 10:20:50 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:50:50 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted ;hopes & wishe In-Reply-To: References: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812302050n363db066l5568547b407c6766@mail.gmail.com> Dear Naeem, Thanks for posting the link to your article. I congratulate you for the return of democracy in Bangladesh. On a completely different note though, while reading your article Yes I voted, I found the following entry of interest- 9:45 Amma is already home. She's upset. They were unable to find her voter number, even though she showed her National ID Card. Oh oh. "*Ki ekta jhamela*." My father says she can sort it out later. "Yes, but I can't vote later." It seems that even having a National Identity Card cannot completely solve the problem of identity as some of us in India would like all of us to believe. Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Dec 31 10:26:19 2008 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:56:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: Yes, I Voted ;hopes & wishe In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40812302050n363db066l5568547b407c6766@mail.gmail.com> References: <222225.40283.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40812302050n363db066l5568547b407c6766@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40812302056u1387aa4bqab5b4d19d2603e92@mail.gmail.com> PS: Point to remember. Sometimes even a National Identity Card can be of little help in the discharge of the most fundamental duty of a citizen, that is, to vote. hummm interesting.... On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Naeem, > > Thanks for posting the link to your article. I congratulate you for the > return of democracy in Bangladesh. > > On a completely different note though, while reading your article Yes I > voted, I found the following entry of interest- > > 9:45 Amma is already home. She's upset. They were unable to find her voter > number, even though she showed her National ID Card. Oh oh. "*Ki ekta > jhamela*." My father says she can sort it out later. "Yes, but I can't > vote later." > > > It seems that even having a National Identity Card cannot completely solve > the problem of identity as some of us in India would like all of us to > believe. > > Regards > > Taha > > > From navayana at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 12:20:14 2008 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:20:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Avarna: The Colours of Success Message-ID: *Five Avarna Fellows and the Colours of Success * Navayana (www.navayana.org) is proud to announce the selection of five Avarna fellows who will be attending the Edit-Pub course at Jadavpur University, Kolkata. *Anjali Kispotta,* Jamshedpur, Jharkhand. She recently did her B.A. from Delhi University. She enjoys writing, and hopes to pursue a career in the media. Anjali feels the Edit-Pub course will help her express herself better. *Parul Arya,* New Delhi. A graduate from Delhi University, she is currently a Project Manager, Aptara Pvt. Ltd., a pre-publishing company in Delhi. She wants every Dalit to be literate and have a respectable position in society. Parul wishes to pursue the Edit-Pub course to learn and understand every aspect of book publishing. *Satish C. Shambharkar*, Pune, Maharashtra. A Project Officer with Manuski Trust, an advocacy centre in Pune, Satish wants to ensure justice to Dalits by highlighting their issues before the national and international civil society. Having extensively reported on the Khairlanji case for the Atrocity News blogspot, Satish is writing a book on his experiences in reporting the Khairlanji issue. He hopes to improve his editorial and writing skills through the Edit-Pub course. *Nirmal Kumar Mahato*, Purulia, West Bengal. Nirmal works in the field of forest and water disaster management. He recently submitted his Ph.D. dissertation, "Environment and Society of Purulia: A Study of Tribal Identity in a Bengal District during Colonial Rule" to Viswa-Bharati University. A part-time lecturer in history in a college in Bolpur, Nirmal hopes to improve his editing skills with the Edit-Pub course. *Orance Mahaldar*, Kolkata, West Bengal. He is currently pursuing a Master's degree in Film Studies from the Jadavpur University. Orance is interested in the publishing industry, and wishes to learn more about it through the Edit-Pub course. * Waitlisted* M.S. Narayanan, Wayanad, Kerala. With a Masters Degree in English Literature from Kannur University, Narayanan is pursuing a Certificate Course in Professional Development at Centre for Research and Education for Social Transformation (CREST), Calicut. He is looking for a career in media/ publications through which he can highlight the issues confronted by the Dalit and marginalized communities. Besides providing a stipend of Rs 5,000 per month and covering the course fees, Navayana is trying to ensure day jobs and internships for the Avarna fellows even as they do the course. Navayana's first step towards ensuring editorial diversity in the English language publishing industry in India was thus a success. Of the 22 valid applications received for the Avarna fellowships at the Edit-Pub course, 12 were shortlisted and invited to Kolkata to attend the screening test conducted by the School of Cultural Texts and Records (SCTR), Jadavpur University. 1. Parul Arya, New Delhi 2. S. Narasaiah, Marrigudem, Warangal, Andhra Pradesh 3. Orance Mahaldar, Kolkata, West Bengal 4. Ranajit Das, Kolkata, West Bengal 5. Jeetendra Indrekar, Tejgarh, Gujarat 6. Narayanan M.S., Wayanad, Kerala 7. Satish C. Shambharkar, Pune, Maharashtra 8. Somalia Chakma, Chittagong, Bangladesh 9. Nirmal K Mahato, Bolpur, Birbhum, West Bengal 10. J.B. Biswokarma, Kathmandu, Nepal 11. Anupama Nayak, Kendupada, Orissa 12. Anjali Kispotta, Jamshedpur, Jharkhand While Somalia Chakma could not attend because her visa was not cleared, J.B. Biswokarma of Kathmandu met with an accident a few days before the test and could not make it, and S. Narasaiah from Warangal was incommunicado. The candidates arrived in Kolkata on 21 December and were hosted at Seva Kendra. On the morning of 22 December, the candidates were formally welcomed by S. Anand, publisher of Navayana, who briefed them about the world of publishing, about Navayana, and Avarna. At 9.30 a.m., a mock test in editing was conducted to prepare the candidates for the actual test to be held at the Jadavpur University the same evening at 5 p.m. Based on every candidate's application for the Avarna fellowship, and their performance in the mock test, they were told how they could improve on their language skills and do their best in the Edit-Pub test. At 11 a.m., Bishan Samaddar, Project Manager, Choice, spoke to the candidates about the different career options they could pursue. Choice, run by the Seagull Foundation for the Arts, is a youth leadership program that aims to broaden the options in the lives and careers of India's youth and nurture a sense of social responsibility among them. Choice facilitates placement of interns with organizations working in the field of social concern. This interaction was organized specifically keeping in mind those shortlisted candidates who have a strong background in grassroots activism. At 5 p.m, the School of Cultural Texts and Records (SCTR), Jadavpur University, Kolkata, held a test for the candidates in basic editing and language skills. Based on their performance in this test, five candidates were chosen for the Avarna Fellowship. A sixth has been waitlisted. The following day, 23 December, all the candidates paid a visit to 16, Southern Avenue—where Mandira Sen, director, Stree/Samya, interacted with the Avarna candidates and gave them a glimpse of how a publishing house works. Every chair in the beautiful office was pulled out to seat the Avarna-Navayana delegation of eleven persons. Mandira spoke about her experiences as a publisher. Rimi B. Chatterjee, a freelance editor with Samya-Stree, and coordinator of the Edit-Pub course, interacted with the Avarna fellows. A sumptuous lunch – a traditional multi-course Bengali meal that included Mochar Ghanto, Doi Mach and Mishti Doi – followed. To digest which, the Navayana-Avarna team spent time at the Seagull Bookstore on SP Mukherjee Road browsing a range of books that mainstream stores do not bother to stock. >From there, Jeetendra Indrekar an actor-activist with the Bhudan Theatre, dialed Mahasweta Devi's number, and sought an appointment that was immediately granted. Narayanan, having resolved he would give the Avarna fellowship another shot next year, accompanied Jeetendra. The meeting with the Jnanpith award winner was the highlight of the trip for the two aspirants who could not make it as fellows. For further queries regarding Avarna, write to Manisha Sobhrajani at avarna.navayana at gmail.com -- Navayana Publishing E92 (Second Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From navayana at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 12:23:10 2008 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:23:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Turning the Pot Message-ID: Turning the Pot, Tilling the Land: Dignity of Labour in Our Times By Kancha Ilaiah Illustrations: Durgabai Vyam Rs 150. 108 pages. 9x9 inches. Paperback. ISBN: 9788189059095 This is the second print of the bestselling title. It features a new cover with endorsements by leading newspapers and magazines, including one by the Unicef-India director. Samphe D. Lhalungpa, chief of education, Unicef India, said in The Washington Post: "A hugely important book. Every Indian child should read it." "This book is a valuable addition to those who teach social sciences in schools." – The Hindu-Young World "Wonderfully designed book... a much-needed resource for both parents and teachers." – Tehelka "The book can certainly go a long way in getting children to think differently." – Time Out In this book, Kancha Ilaiah throws light on the science, art and skill of adivasis, cattle-rearers, leatherworkers, potters, farmers, weavers, dhobis and barbers. The book documents the contributions to the betterment of human life by castes and communities despised as 'lowly' and 'backward'. Recently, students opposed to reservation in educational institutions expressed protest by polishing shoes, sweeping the roads and selling vegetables. Why such resentment against labour? Could these students make shoes or till the land? Could they make a pot? This book – with stunning illustrations by Durgabai Vyam – is the first ever attempt to inculcate a sense of dignity of labour among India's children. 14,000 copies of the Telugu edition of Turning the Pot (published by Hyderabad Book Trust) have been distributed by Unicef in government-run schools of Andhra Pradesh. The Tamil (Tulika) and Hindi (Eklavya) editions of the book are expected in January 2009. A Malayalam edition (DC Books) will follow. Translations in Oriya and Bengali are in the pipeline. An international NGO purchased 1,000 copies of the second print of this book to offer it as a Christmas/New Year gift to MPs, MLAs, policy-makers. For bulk orders write to anand.navayana at gmail.com. For VPPs: oasisbooks at yahoo.com For distribution queries, contact ipd.alternatives at gmail.com; dilip at westland-tata.com, manian at westland-tata.com For online ordering: scholarswithoutborders at gmail.com. www.navayana.org -- Navayana Publishing E92 (Second Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:07:21 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:37:21 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Tahmima Anam on "Bangladesh Rising" Message-ID: The Guardian 31 December 2008 BANGLADESH RISING Voters turning out in their millions to rout a corrupt regime heralds a new era of reform by Tahmima Anam Something spectacular happened in a small corner of the world on Tuesday. After two years of military-backed rule, a free, fair, incident-free election was held in Bangladesh, with decisive results: a record voter turnout routed the incumbent party in favour of a secular, progressive alliance. "Two ladies" is the phrase commonly attached to the leaders of Bangladesh's main political parties: Khaleda Zia of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP) and Sheikh Hasina of the Awami League - both women, one the widow of a former president, the other the daughter of Sheikh Mujib, leader of the independence movement and first prime minister of Bangladesh. But lumping the leaders together and calling them the "two ladies" is not just misogynistic and patronising but seriously misleading. There is a real difference between the parties, one that is not only crucial to understanding the internal politics of Bangladesh, but also sheds light on the rise and fall of religious fundamentalism in the world's second largest Muslim nation. The BNP were at the helm of power in the last electoral cycle. During this time, Khaleda Zia promoted cronies to high positions of power, corrupted the courts with political appointments, and oversaw the theft of government funds on an unprecedented level. In 2007, the party orchestrated a coordinated effort to rig the elections, leading to the army's intervention and two years of military-backed rule. In this election, the BNP allied themselves with the Jamaat-e-Islami and conducted a campaign of fear-mongering, with slogans decrying the corruption of religious values and predicting a threat to Islam through foreign influence. By contrast, the Awami League ran a campaign that was purposefully secular and progressive. Though no stranger to allegations of corruption, the Awami League cleansed its party of much of the old guard. In the end, it campaigned on a platform of change, promising jobs and economic regeneration. The result was not only victory for the Awami League, but a near annihilation of the Jamaat-e-Islami. There has been a lot of speculation of late about the direction - political and economic - Bangladesh will take. Will it succumb to Islamic fundamentalism, or will it remain a moderate Islamic country? Will it ever overcome the many obstacles to progress and turn the tide in its favour, or will it remain at the bottom of the charts and development indices, a nation on the brink of failure? When I asked a prominent journalist why the Bangladeshi stock exchange hadn't felt the effects of the global economic downturn, he said: "In order to be drunk, you first have to be invited to the party." In this economic cycle - luckily, it turns out - Bangladesh wasn't invited to the party. But the election results may mean the beginning of a new era of political reform and economic growth. Bangladesh still has a long way to go. But after all the votes have been counted, this is what remains: in this poor country, where many people cannot read or write, where women are still subject to draconian social and economic realities, where natural disasters strike with brutal regularity, corruption and religious extremism were resolutely routed out. People came by the millions to cast their votes because they knew that on this day, they would have their say. And speak they did, against a regime that had let them down once too many; against leaders who had refused to accept the responsibilities of their offices. Against all odds, Bangladesh is on the move. • Tahmima Anam is the author of A Golden Age From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 31 18:22:33 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:22:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Army wanted Abdullah. Any surprises here? Message-ID: <1fd66c110812310452m2570e6b3v676214e75bae2222@mail.gmail.com> Army support is where the Abdullahs score over Muftis By Ashish Sinha in New Delhi Mail Today, 30 December 2008 http://mailtoday.in/30122008/epaperhome.aspx NSG commandos protecting the Abdullah family, especially patriarch Farooq, are a happy lot because the former chief minister takes good care of them and has a more " mainstream" view of matters political. The contrast, mainly with the People's Democratic Party ( PDP), is significant as Mufti Mohammad Sayeed's attempts to simultaneously ride two boats — of " soft separatism" while sounding " national" — were detested by the security forces, especially the Army. Any political decision on Kashmir — especially when the ball is in the Congress's court — cannot afford to ignore the sentiments of lakhs of troops stationed here because, at least for now, they appear to be a more permanent fixture than any party, even the National Conference ( NC). Personnel who have fought militancy in Kashmir say the " return of democracy" here cannot mean a retreat of the troops to the barracks. It is here that the Abdullahs surge ahead of the Muftis, especially as the PDP's plan of storming the assembly on a separatist agenda failed. Within the NC, the son scores over his father. Omar is seen as someone who means business and is capable of addressing the concerns of the youth, the most restless and wronged section of Kashmir today. When Farooq took over the NC from his father Sheikh Abdullah in 1981 — he became CM the next year — he was a political novice and pedigree was mainly why the baton came to him. But Omar, who represents the eagerness of the babalog s of Indian politics to make a difference, has a better track record. Only 38, he has been thrice elected to the Lok Sabha and was a Union MoS for over three years, handling commerce and external affairs in the NDA government. Kashmir is a society where the oft- promised dream of development- driven good days ahead has not been realised. "Farooq was in control of Kashmir twice during the troubled times — first from 1986 to 1990 and then from 1996 to 2002. But at the grassroots, he is still seen as a typical politician," said a senior BSF officer, adding " Omar is perceived as a firebrand leader committed to making a difference within the operating principle of J& K being an integral part of India. For a society ravaged by years of violence, that promise means a lot." From lists at shivamvij.com Wed Dec 31 18:30:19 2008 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:30:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Siddharth Vardarajan on why Pak didn't disrupt Kashmir polls Message-ID: <1fd66c110812310500i3fe2e497sea58eea2733ed253@mail.gmail.com> If the principal reason for a high voter turnout during the recent assembly elections in Jammu and Kashmir was the absence of militant violence, to what extent was Pakistan responsible for ensuring that extremist groups operating from its territory did not disrupt the polls? The question is important because this "non-interference" -- for which no less a person than Farooq Abdullah, leader of the victorious National Conference, publicly thanked Islamabad on Sunday -- seems to be at variance with New Delhi's understanding of what Pakistani policy vis-à-vis India is in the wake of last month's dramatic terrorist attack on Mumbai. Here: http://svaradarajan.blogspot.com/2008/12/dateline-srinagar-pakistan-conundrum.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 18:29:54 2008 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:29:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Army wanted Abdullah. Any surprises here? In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110812310452m2570e6b3v676214e75bae2222@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd66c110812310452m2570e6b3v676214e75bae2222@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70812310459m5b2a91abwb87990bb1ec53869@mail.gmail.com> yeah ...nothing surprising including the way you think...little Johnny.... pawan On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Shivam V wrote: > Army support is where the Abdullahs score over Muftis > > By Ashish Sinha in New Delhi > Mail Today, 30 December 2008 > http://mailtoday.in/30122008/epaperhome.aspx > > NSG commandos protecting the Abdullah family, especially patriarch > Farooq, are a happy lot because the former chief minister takes good > care of them and has a more " mainstream" view of matters political. > > The contrast, mainly with the People's Democratic Party ( PDP), is > significant as Mufti Mohammad Sayeed's attempts to simultaneously ride > two boats — of " soft separatism" while sounding " national" — were > detested by the security forces, especially the Army. > > Any political decision on Kashmir — especially when the ball is in the > Congress's court — cannot afford to ignore the sentiments of lakhs of > troops stationed here because, at least for now, they appear to be a > more permanent fixture than any party, even the National Conference ( > NC). > > Personnel who have fought militancy in Kashmir say the " return of > democracy" here cannot mean a retreat of the troops to the barracks. > It is here that the Abdullahs surge ahead of the Muftis, especially as > the PDP's plan of storming the assembly on a separatist agenda failed. > > Within the NC, the son scores over his father. Omar is seen as someone > who means business and is capable of addressing the concerns of the > youth, the most restless and wronged section of Kashmir today. > > When Farooq took over the NC from his father Sheikh Abdullah in 1981 — > he became CM the next year — he was a political novice and pedigree > was mainly why the baton came to him. But Omar, who represents the > eagerness of the babalog s of Indian politics to make a difference, > has a better track record. Only 38, he has been thrice elected to the > Lok Sabha and was a Union MoS for over three years, handling commerce > and external affairs in the NDA government. > > Kashmir is a society where the oft- promised dream of development- > driven good days ahead has not been realised. > > "Farooq was in control of Kashmir twice during the troubled times — > first from 1986 to 1990 and then from 1996 to 2002. But at the > grassroots, he is still seen as a typical politician," said a senior > BSF officer, adding " Omar is perceived as a firebrand leader > committed to making a difference within the operating principle of J& > K being an integral part of India. For a society ravaged by years of > violence, that promise means a lot." > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Dec 29 16:59:11 2008 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:29:11 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX=3A_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3EJanuary_2009?= Message-ID: <20081229122911.6BF96810.7E0FCC55@192.168.0.3> netEX: calls & deadlines -->January 2009 ------------------------------------- [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne newsletter contents New Year greetings calls & deadlines 04 Calls: 2008/2009 deadlines internal 18 Calls: January 2009 deadlines external 9 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------- Happy New Year! ------------------------------------- netEX and the team of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne wish their friends all over the world a Happy and Peaceful New Year 2009 ------------------------------------- Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2009: deadline internal Deadline 2 March 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments call: Flash & Thunder - Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 Deadline 2 March 2009 VideoChannel - video project environments call: One Minute Videos http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 2008 deadlines: internal extended deadline: 31 December 2008 JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art call: Netart Features 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=329 extended deadline: 31 December 2008 SoundLAB VI - soundart for soundPOOL - sound compositions - a challenge for imagination http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=242 ------------------------------------------------ January 2009 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 31 January Web as Culture - Symposion Giessen/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=439 30 January Internet based art - festival in Tulsa/USA http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=438 23 January Xtend III - Bodies in Flight Digital Media Center Southhill Park Bracknell/UK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=448 23 January The International Guerilla Video Festival Dublin 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=423 19 January Application - Postgraduates - Academy of Media Arts Cologne/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=436 16 January 2nd Cyprus International Short Film Festival 2008 Nicosia/N.Cyprus http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=393 15 January SARAI New Dehli/India - Typos in the writing on the wall http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=429 15 January Int. Festival of Visual Art and New Media Casablanca/Morocco http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=428 15 January NanoArt Festival 2009 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=419 12 January 3rd Inclusive Net Meeting Medialab Prado Madrid/Spain http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=442 10 January Experiments in Cinema v. 4.2 http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=395 10 January Mediawave Internation Film festival Györ/Hungary http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=403 9 January Dance & new Technologies Digital Art Festival/France http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=443 9 January IDENSITAT #5 - public art for Spanish city http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=422 8 January & divers later deadlines Siggraph 2009 New Orleans/USA http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=417 5 January Guthman Musical Instruments Competition http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=433 5 January sound:frame festival 2009 Vienna/Austria http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=399 1 January Two Thousand +Nine Symposion Belfast/Northern Ireland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=432 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements