From sayandebmukherjee at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 1 00:03:02 2007 From: sayandebmukherjee at yahoo.co.in (sayandeb mukherjee) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:33:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] THE SPACE INTERLUDE/5TH POSTING Message-ID: <953135.15398.qm@web7710.mail.in.yahoo.com> VTH POSTING THE MAINFRAME In the following years ‘apartment’ became the basic structure of most of the residential buildings and whatever architectural improvisations were attempted was executed with this configuration in mind. Single/Double storied independent family houses rarefied whereas apartments or like buildings clouded the cityscape generating a new look altogether. In some cities like Kolkata, Hyderabad, it also happened that these houses (as mentioned above) were destructed and above the recreated space raised huge multi-storied apartments giving accommodation to considerable number of families. The families were put into units, as mentioned before as ‘flats’ and this multiple existence of different families (with no inter-relationship in most cases) under one roof generated a new sociological structure of neighborhood, a new lifestyle with spatially adjustable qualities imposed in the dwellers’ mind, a new philosophy of life. The space of my interest is the passage between these flats that exist in the fashion of rows. We can say it is a kind of re-incarnated space that got extinct with the death of big mansions, palaces, and havelis and with the rising of small houses, then again took rebirth with the rising of these apartments. It is the ‘corridor space’ apparently looks like a ‘tube’ with openings at regular intervals which are actually the interface of different flats. These spaces are the unavoidably emerged caves of modern civilization. The space has undergone more of a functional displacement than the structural one. In the earlier establishments, the corridor space was integrated inside the palace or haveli and was used by the members of the same big family. But today’s apartment corridors are not entirely private and are instantly accessible to the flat owners who’re not necessarily inter-related to each other. For the configuration of today’s residential corridor spaces and for the sociological state (that it provides instantaneous interference to unfamiliar territories with the immediate opening of my flat’s main door) it imbibes conventional similarities with hospitals, educational institutions and many other public spaces. For this reason, when I come out of my flat subconsciously I bear a feeling of walking in a hospital or a college corridor. Also it is a common space accessible to other flat owners. It is therefore, appears as a grey zone possessing the duality of personal space (for having proximity with the familial space) and a historically intertwined space that has got invisible visual similitude with outwardly public (unprivatized) space. The deduction of these subconscious trajectories leads to the fact that these spaces are not psychologically homogenous since it possesses multiple crossfades of social conditioning. On every step in the corridor one undergoes the dwindling away of the secured familial space and the introduction of the social space when one has to mould/condition his self with the mannerisms or interactive fashions of the society. The corridor spaces will characteristically differ not necessarily due to architectural dissimilarities but the relation that it inherits with the SUPER-SPACE where it is integrated. If the corridor is included in a hospital his psychological state alters from that when he is in his apartment corridor. Another important aspect is the intersection of time that cannot he disregarded since because the thought pattern changes along the length of the corridor. An extended length of such a space will contribute to the increasing curiosity of the intruder or will render a memoryscape that could possess associative elements of the user with the ‘home’ he is moving onto. These shades of emotions corresponding to the situatedness of the corridor space and the temporal factor will be discussed later. Bringing the context of the apartment corridor once again I will construct a situation where a person is retreating from his working space and has reached the apartment where he lives in a small flat with his wife and a kid. He takes the lift that brings him to a long corridor _ the space that he has to walk down to reach his flat which is the HOME of today. In this transitory phase he will be majorly pre-occupied with the thought that he’s going to meet the kid after a subsequent time. Along with, he might be recollecting the happenings at the working space or how he spent chatting with his friend during a break or he was humiliated by his higher official or how his boss elated at his performance or /and might as well think his future schedules. To summarize, an user while transposing through this space makes a conscious walk pre-occupied by the thought of anticipation (>what he is going to do next when he reaches the terminal of the space or what could be the happenings that he is going to face as he arrives here) or recollection of the diurnal past (>what are the events that happened on the very day, what were the situations that he faced.. etc). What makes this space characteristically dissimilar is this self-consciousness (>certain layers of consciousness that essentially involves self only) that evaporates away in a social space – working or living. Another viewpoint that entails with a derivative of self-consciousness is the phenomenon of perceptions. Karl Kupfmuller, a scientist, while making a quantitative analysis of the neurological synapses to the brain has found that vision has long been to be our dominant input. However, his study suggested that simulation of even our conscious mind is almost equally well achieved from visual compared to auditive inputs. So the derivative is that, we‘re mostly visually pre-occupied; most of the time we’re instinctively engrossed by the visual extravaganza, thereby suppressing/overpowering the auditive attributes of the space. Therefore, most of the time, when we talk about certain psychological phenomenon or anomalies there remains a pre-consideration of the visual perception. For example, while we speak about ‘VERTIGO’, we try to comprise it by saying it is a psychological weakness that happens to the victim when he/she reaches a certain height, he/she suffers from a tendency of falling down from there. This ‘height’ is a measure derived from vision and its acquaintance has nothing to do with other sensations. But, for finding thoroughly the cause of such an anomaly, one might consider other perceptual attributes. As we go higher, there happens a severe fall of the intelligibility of sound, the details with which we perceive certain sounds, gets attenuated as we reach a height. What surmounts is an accumulation of sounds from other distant sources; in other words AUDIO-HORIZON continuously expands with the height. Finally, as we reach a considerable height, brightness of the sounds sourced from the surface [- the ground level] is muted, the circumference of audibility has expanded. But importantly, a new frequency content in the air is introduced that results in a sonic-boom/boominess. This particular sonic property – boominess which deeply engulfs the listener/observer is very unnatural and is not being encountered in our everyday life. The lack of acquaintance with such a sonic-scape will be very annoying for the victim and could be an attribute for such dizziness. But we don’t generally realize the auditory differentiations because of the overpowering visionary properties. It is therefore, interesting to note the state of perception and its psychological manifestation as this visionary world is exterminated like it happens in a double-loaded (-to be discussed later) corridor space. As discussed earlier, in terms of synapses, the second strong receptor of perception is audio. So, we’re more acoustically aware/conscious as we enter these spaces .. to be continued. SAYANDEB MUKHERJEE FT#308, SUBBARAJU TOWERS, ROAD NO.4, VIJAYAPURI COLONY, KOTHAPET, HYDERABAD PIN: 500 035 PH#9849383863 Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 00:56:22 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 00:26:22 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5af37bb0707311226x67a624ceha574d1678f6a84a2@mail.gmail.com> On 7/31/07, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > india must be the only country on this earth where 'nationalism' and 'patriotism' are ridiculed ....i think this must be the reason > why we had to suffer at the hands of muslim & christian invaders for more than thousand years, moreover why this country was partitioned in 1947 ! > dear vedavati, *It* looks pretty partitioned in 400AD - years before Muhammad was born - and strangely it looks a lot like today. http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/ANCINDIA/GUPTAMAP.HTM http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps.htm 625AD http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps.htm or even 1050 AD http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps.htm but may be you are living in 200 BC http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps.htm best From pkray11 at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 11:41:13 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:41:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Andhra killing.. Message-ID: <98f331e00707312311m9b6e06ufa858d54e2403b6c@mail.gmail.com> We are herewith releasing a letter addressed to AICC General Secretary, Shri Digvijay Singh, by Shri Srinivasa Rao, Member of the Central Secretariat of the CPI(M), in response to Shri Digvijay's statement on the police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district of Andhra Pradesh which killed six people. July 30, 2007 Dear Shri Digvijay Singhji, What you have stated about the brutal police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district in the media amounts to nothing but misinformation. Maybe you have been misled by your party's state leadership. We hope that you will ascertain the real facts about the incident and verify them. Here are a few facts and issues we wish to bring to your notice: The agitators were peacefully conducting rasta roko in Mudigonda on July 28. There was no attack on the police station. No police vehicle was torched as being alleged. If any such thing has happened why don't you ask the authorities to exhibit the vehicle. It is being alleged that Maoists have sneaked into the land movement and are responsible for the violence. Bandi Ramesh is not a Maoist as your state leaders are alleging him to be. He had earlier worked in the CPI(ML) New Democracy party openly. He had differences with his party and joined the CPI(M). His wife Bandi Padma has been the elected sarpanch of Cherumari village for the last 10 years. Even today she is the sarpanch of that village. So, they are neither extremists nor were they underground at any point of time. Verify this aspect. The police lathicharged the peaceful protestors who were holding a rasta roko. They targeted Bandi Ramesh specifically, dragging him out of the camp and brutally beating him up. The people, aghast at such behaviour by the police, tried to extricate their leader from the police. Meanwhile the Additional SP, in an unusual move, reached the area with the anti-naxalite squad who were armed with AK-47s and LMGs. Even as the lathicharge was going on, the police began firing on the protestors without any warning, killing 6 people. While these are the facts of the incident, your state leadership has embarked on a disinformation campaign. When the CPI(M) had conducted a siege of Khammam collectorate office last January, it passed off absolutely peacefully. The police were also quite restrained then. Later the Chief Minister pulled up the police saying they were not firm enough. This was reported in the media. Since then the police violence on agitators increased. Bhadrachalam, in the same district, witnessed police firing on tribals. The police badly misbehaved with the local MP, Dr M. Babu Rao, and MLA S. Rajaiah. It is now clear that the latest firing in Mudigonda is also a result of the Chief Minister's instigation of the police. I am writing this letter to you with the hope that you will examine these facts and take necessary action. Yours sincerely Sd/- (V. Srinivasa Rao) Member, Central Secretariat, CPI(M) From amitabh at sarai.net Wed Aug 1 11:55:11 2007 From: amitabh at sarai.net (Amitabh Kumar) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:55:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33422EE6-3E89-456F-98C7-5936B8E4562E@sarai.net> The way I understand it.. 'nationalism and patriotism' are not so bankrupt a phenomenon so as to be divorced of 'secularism & liberalism'. However, the figure of 'we' the 'suffer'ers in your argument is interesting. Is it geographically bound or otherwise? Whats the imagination of 'we'? Is it 'We' the Indians? Or 'We- The Hindu's"? Or ' We- Who hate all religions but our own' or 'We- who only hate Muslims and Christians' or ' We - who hate' or ' We- In a bad mood today'? On 31-Jul-07, at 11:33 PM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > india must be the only country on this earth where 'nationalism' > and 'patriotism' are ridiculed ....i think this must be the reason > why we had to suffer at the hands of muslim & christian invaders > for more than thousand years, moreover why this country was > partitioned in 1947 ! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > From mail at shivamvij.com Wed Aug 1 13:04:22 2007 From: mail at shivamvij.com (Shivam Vij) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:04:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dalit Indian American donates $20m to native village Message-ID: <9c06aab30708010034u52f39144h694de85e3ed8514@mail.gmail.com> Indian American donates $20m to native village IANS Published: July 31, 2007, 23:12 http://www.gulfnews.com/world/India/10143367.html New York: An Indian American, who made millions as a neurosurgeon and lived a lavish life - once owning a Rolls-Royce - five Mercedes-Benzes and an airplane has donated $20 million (Dh75.2 million) to his native village in Kerala. Dr Kumar Bahuleyan, 81, who was born to a Dalit familly in India, decided to donate his personal fortune as a gratitude to his village, to establish a neurosurgery hospital, a health clinic and a spa resort in Chemmanakary, in Kottayam district of Kerala. "I was born with nothing; I was educated by the people of that village, and this is what I owe to them," Bahuleyan said in Buffalo where he has lived since 1973. "I'm in a state of nirvana, eternal nirvana," he said. "I have nothing else to achieve in life. This was my goal, to help my people. I can die any time, as a happy man." The urge to do something for his village arose some 20 to 25 years ago, when Bahuleyan returned to Chemmanakary and was struck by how little it had changed. From ysikand at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 13:20:51 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:20:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Maulanas in the News Message-ID: <48097acc0708010050w39a55ee7i8d10834f197c4c60@mail.gmail.com> Maulanas in the News Yoginder Sikand A maze of pot-holed lanes winds its way through a squalid slum at the far end of the sprawling Muslim locality of Zakir Nagar in South Delhi. The lanes are lined with open drains, clogged with garbage and blanketed with clouds of mosquitoes. Tiny hutments and half-constructed buildings cluster together haphazardly. A muddy by-lane, rendered almost unusable due to the recent rains, leads off towards the Jamuna beyond. Half way along, a tin board nailed on to an unpainted brick wall announces the Rabita Islamic News Agency (RINA). The brainchild of Maulana Muzzammil al-Haq al-Husaini, a graduate of the Deoband madrasa, and former editor of al-Kifah, the Arabic organ of the Jamiat ul-Ulama-e Hind, RINA was set up in 1987. For more than a decade it functioned in a somewhat perfunctory manner, the amiable middle-aged Maulana tells me, but for the last two years it has been working in a more organized way. Maulana Muzzammil explains the aims of RINA and the way it functions. 'We want international news, especially about Muslims and Islam in the other countries, to reach Urdu newspapers. We also want Indian Muslim news to reach papers abroad'. For the former purpose, RINA culls information from a host of Arabic and English websites, newspapers and magazines, translates this into Urdu, and sends it in the form of summarized reports to more than 150 Urdu publications across India. 'It is otherwise very difficult for many of these papers to access this material. It also saves them the trouble of having to arrange for this material to be translated into Urdu', he says. These reports are sent through email to some papers, and in the form of a weekly news bulletin, titled 'Alam-e Islam Ki Khabrein' ('News From the Islamic World'), which is sent by post to papers that do not have access to the Internet. The other major service that RINA provides is news about Indian Muslim affairs to Arabic and English publications, the latter both in India and abroad. 'Despite the fact that India has such a large Muslim population, people in the Arab world have little or no knowledge of the Indian Muslims', the Maulana points out. 'I traveled to the Arab world and I came across people who asked me, in all seriousness, if Muslims are allowed to build mosques in India! Considering the fact that Muslims, as well as others, enjoy considerably more religious freedom in India than in many Arab countries, such lack of knowledge of Indian Muslims in the Arab world is really distressing', he continues. 'This is both because the Arab press gives very little coverage to Indian Muslim issues and also because we have done little to tell others about ourselves'. 'Many Arabs', he adds, 'have this very distorted understanding of the conditions of the Indian Muslims. They think that we are all very poor and deprived. Many people go to the Gulf and paint a very sordid picture of the Muslims here in order to seek to garner funds in the name of the community. It is thus important for us to present the facts about ourselves as they are'. To get the Indian Muslim viewpoint across to an Arabic- and English- knowing readership, RINA has recently launched a features and news service in both languages. It selects material from Indian Urdu papers and gathers reports from its correspondents in different parts of the country and translates them into Arabic and English. This material will shortly be made available on RINA's website, which is presently under construction, and in the form of printed weekly newsletters. 'We want to focus on news about Indian Muslims that receive little or no coverage in the English and Arabic press', the Maulana explains. RINA is one of the few news agencies that focus solely or largely on Indian Muslim issues. It might have more room for improvement, though, particularly in the quality of the news that it sends out. The absence of feature stories is also something that could be addressed. But that said, the Maulana and his enterprising team of four young colleagues—three being graduates of the Deoband madrasa and one from the Nadwat ul-Ulama, Lucknow—exemplify what difference even a small group of dedicated activists, operating from a single room in a squalid slum, with just a fax machine and a computer at their disposal, can make. ======================================================== For more details about RINA, contact Maulana Muzzammil al-Haq al-Husaini on rinaislamicnewsagency at yahoo.co.in / Tel: (0091-11) 26984980 -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping From aman.am at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 16:44:07 2007 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:44:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: <33422EE6-3E89-456F-98C7-5936B8E4562E@sarai.net> References: <33422EE6-3E89-456F-98C7-5936B8E4562E@sarai.net> Message-ID: <995a19920708010414q3d2c12a7kc689c1905d254ce0@mail.gmail.com> It is rather interesting that most the threads that usually sustain beyond 2 or three desultory mails, are those that deal with the "hindu-mussalman" question. Even arguments that on the face of it dont seem to have much to do with the "Hindu-Mussalman" question, inevitably come down to it. From there on, its a quick jump to "pseduo-secularists" vs hindutva wallahs. Kashmir, i suppose, tends to elicit reactions such as these - where every conversation about kashmir never remains "about kashmir" for particularly long. It lends itself to "larger questions" about "patriotism", "secularism and pseudo-secularism", "narender modi", "jhola wallahs", and of course, "the search for meaning" and "the nature of the state". Perhaps Sanjay Kak is trying to do just that - to make a film that is about kashmir, and stays about kashmir. And perhaps thats what the kashmiris refer to when they use that tragically over-used cliche, "all agreements should take into account the will of the kashmiri people." A conversation, a film, a dialogue, a protest, that is not abt "tips of icebergs", and "symptoms of larger malaises". Ever freedom of speech/expression makes the same mistake- "This is not just abt the arrest of an art student in gujarat, this is about the larger issue of freedom of speech in this country." "This is not just about Sanjay Kak's film on kashmir, this is about the larger issue of freedom of speech." No its not. It IS abt the arrest, and it IS about Kashmir. If every act of censorship succeeds in diverting attention from the censored object/subject/article/film towards a big picture analysis of censorship, freedom of expression and the nature of the state, then censorship has accomplished its task. We are then left free to plumb the depths of our limitless imaginations in search of We's , "Us's, Them's, and Thoses. A. ps: The police ARE buffoons. Really. On 8/1/07, Amitabh Kumar wrote: > The way I understand it.. 'nationalism and patriotism' are not so > bankrupt a phenomenon so as to be divorced of 'secularism & > liberalism'. > However, the figure of 'we' the 'suffer'ers in your argument is > interesting. Is it geographically bound or otherwise? Whats the > imagination of 'we'? > Is it 'We' the Indians? Or 'We- The Hindu's"? Or ' We- Who hate all > religions but our own' or 'We- who only hate Muslims and Christians' > or ' We - who hate' or ' We- In a bad mood today'? > > On 31-Jul-07, at 11:33 PM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > india must be the only country on this earth where 'nationalism' > > and 'patriotism' are ridiculed ....i think this must be the reason > > why we had to suffer at the hands of muslim & christian invaders > > for more than thousand years, moreover why this country was > > partitioned in 1947 ! > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 16:57:27 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:57:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: <995a19920708010414q3d2c12a7kc689c1905d254ce0@mail.gmail.com> References: <33422EE6-3E89-456F-98C7-5936B8E4562E@sarai.net> <995a19920708010414q3d2c12a7kc689c1905d254ce0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708010427hff5fa59o75414f22d1f8ee6a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aman, I wonder if you have seen the movie.You are grossly mistaken that the movie is about Kashmir.If it was it would talked about Kashmiris(all of them-gujjars,pandits,sikhs,shias,bakerwals and others)...go see it again...among separatists also..it talks about just one fringe...the yasin malik one... if it is about freedom of speech,why did they disallow a section of people from entering the hall when it was screened in delhi(IHC).. Ponder again..see again..then write again.. Rashneek ps;Anyone who thinks the other guy is a bufoon personfies his own insecurity as one. On 8/1/07, Aman Sethi wrote: > > It is rather interesting that most the threads that usually sustain > beyond 2 or three desultory mails, are those that deal with the > "hindu-mussalman" question. Even arguments that on the face of it dont > seem to have much to do with the "Hindu-Mussalman" question, > inevitably come down to it. From there on, its a quick jump to > "pseduo-secularists" vs hindutva wallahs. > > Kashmir, i suppose, tends to elicit reactions such as these - where > every conversation about kashmir never remains "about kashmir" for > particularly long. It lends itself to "larger questions" about > "patriotism", "secularism and pseudo-secularism", "narender modi", > "jhola wallahs", and of course, "the search for meaning" and "the > nature of the state". > > Perhaps Sanjay Kak is trying to do just that - to make a film that is > about kashmir, and stays about kashmir. And perhaps thats what the > kashmiris refer to when they use that tragically over-used cliche, > "all agreements should take into account the will of the kashmiri > people." A conversation, a film, a dialogue, a protest, that is not > abt "tips of icebergs", and "symptoms of larger malaises". > > Ever freedom of speech/expression makes the same mistake- > "This is not just abt the arrest of an art student in gujarat, this is > about the larger issue of freedom of speech in this country." > "This is not just about Sanjay Kak's film on kashmir, this is about > the larger issue of freedom of speech." > > No its not. > > It IS abt the arrest, and it IS about Kashmir. If every act of > censorship succeeds in diverting attention from the censored > object/subject/article/film towards a big picture analysis of > censorship, freedom of expression and the nature of the state, then > censorship has accomplished its task. > > We are then left free to plumb the depths of our limitless > imaginations in search of We's , "Us's, Them's, and Thoses. > A. > ps: The police ARE buffoons. Really. > > > > On 8/1/07, Amitabh Kumar wrote: > > The way I understand it.. 'nationalism and patriotism' are not so > > bankrupt a phenomenon so as to be divorced of 'secularism & > > liberalism'. > > However, the figure of 'we' the 'suffer'ers in your argument is > > interesting. Is it geographically bound or otherwise? Whats the > > imagination of 'we'? > > Is it 'We' the Indians? Or 'We- The Hindu's"? Or ' We- Who hate all > > religions but our own' or 'We- who only hate Muslims and Christians' > > or ' We - who hate' or ' We- In a bad mood today'? > > > > On 31-Jul-07, at 11:33 PM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > > india must be the only country on this earth where 'nationalism' > > > and 'patriotism' are ridiculed ....i think this must be the reason > > > why we had to suffer at the hands of muslim & christian invaders > > > for more than thousand years, moreover why this country was > > > partitioned in 1947 ! > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From bawree at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 21:09:35 2007 From: bawree at yahoo.com (mamta mantri) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] of blueline in delhi Message-ID: <298336.46268.qm@web33115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Delhi govt is all set to remove the blueline buses from the roads of delhi. I dont want to write about the goods and bads of the issue, but write about my experiences with a particular bus route. Have been in delhi for a year now and been travelling by BUS no 534, that runs from Anand Vihar to Mehrauli. These buses come as a contrast to the BEST buses in Mumbai, in terms of punctuality, discipline, ticketing. First thing that one notices is the decor of these buses. These buses are decked to the core with bangles, danglers, pictures of gods, wind chimes and most importantly a deck system. This deck system is a nuisance to most passengers, who want to catch a wink in the bus, provided they get a seat. Getting a seat in the bus was no big deal for me as a woman, thanks to the reserved seats for women. I dont remember any single day travelling standing right upto Mehrauli. Instead, the whole journey has always been a pleasurable one for me, because i could listen to some interesting Haryanvi music, or old melodies of the 80s and 90s, or FM radio, given my leaning for popular music. By the virtue of travelling very frequently on that route, the conductors and helpers and bus drivers began to recognise me, and exchange hellos. I talked with a couple of staff people. Every bus has 5 to 7 staff members. There are about 450-500 buses on the route, of which about 50 are off road for some repair or the other. The time gap between two buses is 5-7 minutes barely. A bus on every trip makes about 1000-1100 bucks, which appears very minimal, given the gas, maintanence and other expenses. No wonder they keep waiting at all important bus stands to fill in as many passengers as possible. The primary reason is also because of low fares, two or three rupees as minimum fare, as compared to Mumbai, 4-5 rupees. No more facts!!! The staff on the bus is very closely knit to each other, in a very feudal- brotherhood kind of manner. The senior memebers keep a strong vigil on the new members. The junior members will buy cigarettes and tobacco for the senior ones, and do all dog work. But when the journey ends, the senior members, like elder brothers, will pay for the breakfast and other expenses(though it might be a protocol). The gesture doesnt look like an employer-employee one, but an elder brotherly one. Professionalism does exist, but not really. Passengers can cheat the staff, the staff does cheat the passengers, new and old. The bus driver can stop the bus on the road and refuse to go ahead, in which case the passengers wait for the next bus to get into and catch a seat. Of course, they are lucky that the bus driver has the mobile number of the next bus driver, and he will inform him. The next bus will take all the passengers and dues will be settled later. Those are lucky days when the passengers reach their destination in one go. How can i forget the speed of these buses? reaching Mehrauli from Greater Kailas in 20 minutes, leaving behind all auotos, zens, accords and santros. I HAVE WON THE RACE. HO HO HO!!! But i have been fascinated by the whole mechanism. For me, it has been this whole ride of adventure and speed, breaking all traffic rules, not bothering to allow the passenger to get in or out, seating on the bonnet(only in winters!!!), and this 'immense respect for womankind', and brotherhood in feudal haryanvi style. no judgments please, but apologies for stereotypes, if at all. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting From tasveerghar at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 10:52:57 2007 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:52:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Newsletter August 2007 Message-ID: <484c1050708012222w190db4f6q2e137f17418921bf@mail.gmail.com> Tasveer Ghar (The House of Pictures) Newsletter August 2007 www.tasveerghar.net Dear friends, As you may be aware, Tasveer Ghar is a digital network of South Asian popular visual culture, launched earlier this year for collecting, digitizing, and documenting various materials produced by South Asia's exciting popular visual sphere. These include posters, calendar art, pilgrimage maps and paraphernalia, cinema hoardings, advertisements, and other forms of street and bazaar art. Tasveer Ghar is supported by a three-year gift from Adarsh and Ranvir Trehan of the Trehan Foundation to the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, USA. With these start-up funds we have planned several exciting events over the course of the next three years. These activities are currently limited to Indian popular visual culture, but as and when we raise more funds, we hope to expand our reach to cover the other countries of the South Asian subcontinent. While much of the activities of digital archiving would take place in New Delhi, India, Tasveer Ghar currently has two other institutional nodes: 1. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, U.S.A. 2. South Asia Institute at the University of Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Germany Tasveer Ghar Fellowships 2007: Tasveer Ghar is delighted to announce the selection of 3 fellows for our short fellowship on "Gender, Nation and Spaces for the Everyday" in popular visual arts of India for the year 2007: 1. Sujithkumar Parayil (Kerala) Topic: Icons of the reformist period and 're-formed' icons of the present 2. Kamal Kumar Mishra (Delhi) Topic: The changing dynamics of book illustrations from late 19th century to 1960's: A case study of commercial Hindustani popular literature 3. Vishal Rawlley (Mumbai) Topic: Bhojpuri raunchy album covers The period of their research/documentation starts in July 2007 and ends in December 2007, and their findings will result in virtual galleries on the Tasveer Ghar website - likely to be inaugurated in January 2008. In addition to the above fellowships, Tasveer Ghar has also granted shorter fellowships for the writing of virtual gallery visual essays to the following researchers. These grants will result in the collection of images to be used in a virtual gallery on the site. 1. Atma Ram (Chandigarh) Topic: Commodification and objectification of woman on the titles of popular Hindi detective novels 2. Javed Masood (Delhi) Topic: Magazine ads from 1960s and 70s: Setting gender roles on the way to modernity 3. Inder Salim (Kashmir/Delhi) Topic: Popular image culture of India-administered-Kashmir 4. Madhuja Mukherjee (Kolkata) Topic: Cinematic re-presentations through other popular forms: Icons and Mediated Spaces 5. Peerzada Arshad Hamid (Kashmir) Topic: Changing forms of art in the public spaces of Kashmir 6. Annapurna Garimella & Arun Kumar (Bangalore) Topic: Miniature Societies (Narratives in traditional dolls) Detailed synopsis and the progress of their work will soon be available on our website. Announcement: We are pleased to announce that Manishita Dass has joined our collective as a new member. Manishita is Assistant Professor at the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor, USA). Another member of our team, Sumathi Ramaswamy, who was Professor of History at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, has now joined Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, USA, as Professor of History. Sumathi continues to be a part of Tasveer Ghar. Invitation: Tasveer Ghar invites artists, art collectors, photographers, students and others to contribute exciting images representing unique examples of popular visual culture of India/South Asia. You can send us photo prints, old photographs, old printed material, photo negatives, transparencies, digital photographs, high-resolution scans, posters, calendar, old advertisements, printed packing material, wall graffiti, hoardings, road-side banners, or any other medium, preferably mass-produced or truly archival and rare, but representing certain popular trends of our society. You can get a sense of the kinds of materials we are looking for in our Call for Proposals on our website. Your contributions, if accepted by us, would be compensated with a basic honorarium. We can also sign a contract with you about the use of such images. Kindly send us samples of such art work, so that we can respond. Your contribution to Tasveer Ghar could either be one or two interesting images, or a series of related images that we can use for a thematic virtual gallery. A virtual gallery is basically a compilation of images (say between 8 and 15, or even more, if necessary) depicting a unique aspect of popular visual culture. Such images are generally accompanied by a text introduction and detailed captions that weave all the images into one coherent presentation spread over several interactive pages on the website. The individual images could either be scans of authentic artwork or photographs of scenarios (streets or homes) where such public art is displayed. A contributor can either send us hard copies of images or electronic versions (scanned in the prescribed format). Tasveer Ghar will not buy or own the image contributed by you. If you submit hard copies of any art work, we will return the same to you after digitizing it. The contributor does not have to design the gallery: this will be done by our website designer. But the contributor would have to provide the text and captions for the images (or any other details that may be necessary for the gallery). You can already see some featured virtual galleries on our website: 1. Welcome - Swagatam - Good Morning: Welcome posters of India, Written and curated by Patricia Uberoi http://www.tasveerghar.net/welcome 2. New Year Greeting Cards with a Hindu Nationalist perspective, Written and curated by Christiane Brosius http://www.tasveerghar.net/hgreet Our goal in publishing such virtual image essays is to promote conversation and scholarship around visual matters through the digital media, and to encourage discussion around images both well known and little recognized. As a small gift for welcoming you to our archive, we offer an interesting image from our popular art archive for your computer desktop. The image is not being attached here since some recipients may not like attachments, but it can be downloaded at the following link: http://www.tasveerghar.net/desktop Looking forward to your participation in the building of the House of Pictures. Christiane Brosius Manishita Dass Sumathi Ramaswamy Yousuf Saeed Shuddhabrata Sengupta -- http://www.tasveerghar.net If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, kindly write to tasveerghar at gmail.com From pkray11 at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 12:00:49 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:00:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police firing in Andhra Pradesh Message-ID: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> You all are aware about the police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district of Andhra Pradesh which killed six people. I am surprised on the silence on the reader list which had series of debates and discussions and informations about the Nandigram incident (though the entire episode was totally overlooked by many on the list). I don't doubt the emotional and political levels of the people around, but it is certainly disappointing to see such silence. I hope we will be able to respond to the happenings around us in more responsible manner and without being selective about the victims. From chiarapassa at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 12:26:32 2007 From: chiarapassa at gmail.com (Chiara Passa) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:56:32 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Aphorisms_on_=93Digital_Art=94?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dears, Even if in summer time, Jogador, is happy to announce he starts writing aphorisms on "Digital Art" trough twitter at http://twitter.com/jogador All the best, Jogador. From patrice at xs4all.nl Thu Aug 2 12:42:16 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:12:16 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Police firing in Andhra Pradesh In-Reply-To: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070802071216.GA20141@xs4all.nl> Daer Prakash Ray, It would be difficult for me to participate in this discussion, since I am a bit far, geographically speaking, from it. But if it can gives you any kind of satisafction (not really the good word, but OK...), know that the police firing you refer too has been world news, also in our, fairly provincial, press. My only hope would be that police firings in India, which used to be daily stapple of the newspapers when I was student at DSE, will happen even less often (and get massive exposure when they do), so as to get in the same situation as in the 'West', where there incidence would herald the end of the system as we know it (do not be mistaken, p.f. were not uncommon over here till after World War II, and in Southern Europe till into the '70s...). cheers from Groningen (NL), patrizio & Diiiinooos! On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:00:49PM +0530, prakash ray wrote: > You all are aware about the police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district > of Andhra Pradesh which killed six people. I am surprised on the silence on > the reader list which had series of debates and discussions and informations > about the Nandigram incident (though the entire episode was totally > overlooked by many on the list). I don't doubt the emotional and political > levels of the people around, but it is certainly disappointing to see such > silence. > > I hope we will be able to respond to the happenings around us in more > responsible manner and without being selective about the victims. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From amitabh at sarai.net Thu Aug 2 13:12:14 2007 From: amitabh at sarai.net (Amitabh Kumar) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:12:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708010427hff5fa59o75414f22d1f8ee6a@mail.gmail.com> References: <33422EE6-3E89-456F-98C7-5936B8E4562E@sarai.net> <995a19920708010414q3d2c12a7kc689c1905d254ce0@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708010427hff5fa59o75414f22d1f8ee6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aman , Rashneek, If every act of censorship succeeds in diverting attention from the censored object/subject/article/film towards a big picture analysis of censorship, freedom of expression and the nature of the state, then censorship has accomplished its task.' I agree with the basic premise of your argument. However, I don't think there is a diversion of attention taking place when I ( 'we' is a risky proposition to make) try and sift through events like the Baroda fiasco or the recent incident of Sanjay Kak's film being banned... it' s more like WIDENING your area of attention. Don't you think that the event should ideally stimulate you to question the space and circumstances within which it takes place.. About the why's and the how's that constructed it? And since you have so accurately traced how the 'the threads' seem to be formed, let me remind you that the discussion began with the Sanjay Kak's film being banned and is NOT a critique on the film ( which we might reserve for another time and space or continue. Depends on how many threads make a carpet). P.S Anyone who thinks the other guy is personifying his own insecurity by calling someone else a buffoon is spending too much time playing snakes on his/her cellphone (or is a cop) On 8/1/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Dear Aman, > > I wonder if you have seen the movie.You are grossly mistaken that the > movie > is about Kashmir.If it was it would talked about Kashmiris(all of > them-gujjars,pandits,sikhs,shias,bakerwals and others)...go see it > again...among separatists also..it talks about just one fringe...the yasin > malik one... > if it is about freedom of speech,why did they disallow a section of people > from entering the hall when it was screened in delhi(IHC).. > Ponder again..see again..then write again.. > > Rashneek > ps;Anyone who thinks the other guy is a bufoon personfies his own > insecurity > as one. > > > > On 8/1/07, Aman Sethi wrote: > > > > It is rather interesting that most the threads that usually sustain > > beyond 2 or three desultory mails, are those that deal with the > > "hindu-mussalman" question. Even arguments that on the face of it dont > > seem to have much to do with the "Hindu-Mussalman" question, > > inevitably come down to it. From there on, its a quick jump to > > "pseduo-secularists" vs hindutva wallahs. > > > > Kashmir, i suppose, tends to elicit reactions such as these - where > > every conversation about kashmir never remains "about kashmir" for > > particularly long. It lends itself to "larger questions" about > > "patriotism", "secularism and pseudo-secularism", "narender modi", > > "jhola wallahs", and of course, "the search for meaning" and "the > > nature of the state". > > > > Perhaps Sanjay Kak is trying to do just that - to make a film that is > > about kashmir, and stays about kashmir. And perhaps thats what the > > kashmiris refer to when they use that tragically over-used cliche, > > "all agreements should take into account the will of the kashmiri > > people." A conversation, a film, a dialogue, a protest, that is not > > abt "tips of icebergs", and "symptoms of larger malaises". > > > > Ever freedom of speech/expression makes the same mistake- > > "This is not just abt the arrest of an art student in gujarat, this is > > about the larger issue of freedom of speech in this country." > > "This is not just about Sanjay Kak's film on kashmir, this is about > > the larger issue of freedom of speech." > > > > No its not. > > > > It IS abt the arrest, and it IS about Kashmir. If every act of > > censorship succeeds in diverting attention from the censored > > object/subject/article/film towards a big picture analysis of > > censorship, freedom of expression and the nature of the state, then > > censorship has accomplished its task. > > > > We are then left free to plumb the depths of our limitless > > imaginations in search of We's , "Us's, Them's, and Thoses. > > A. > > ps: The police ARE buffoons. Really. > > > > > > > > On 8/1/07, Amitabh Kumar wrote: > > > The way I understand it.. 'nationalism and patriotism' are not so > > > bankrupt a phenomenon so as to be divorced of 'secularism & > > > liberalism'. > > > However, the figure of 'we' the 'suffer'ers in your argument is > > > interesting. Is it geographically bound or otherwise? Whats the > > > imagination of 'we'? > > > Is it 'We' the Indians? Or 'We- The Hindu's"? Or ' We- Who hate all > > > religions but our own' or 'We- who only hate Muslims and Christians' > > > or ' We - who hate' or ' We- In a bad mood today'? > > > > > > On 31-Jul-07, at 11:33 PM, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > > > > india must be the only country on this earth where 'nationalism' > > > > and 'patriotism' are ridiculed ....i think this must be the reason > > > > why we had to suffer at the hands of muslim & christian invaders > > > > for more than thousand years, moreover why this country was > > > > partitioned in 1947 ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > > > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > -- www.amitabhkumar.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 14:17:05 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:17:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Living under the shadow of death-Kavita Suri Message-ID: <13df7c120708020147h706d8309y91f4af237f3f4a45@mail.gmail.com> *Living under the shadow of death* The 5th of January 1996 is a day that none in Barshalla, a village situated on the left bank of of the Chenab river in Thathri tehsil of Doda, the home district of the state chief minister, Mr Ghulam Nabi Azad, can forget. That cold and windy night eleven years ago, when the villagers were about to go to sleep, a knock at the door of one of the villagers, changed their lives. Dressed in army fatigues, few men posing as army officers and equipped with highly sophisticated automatic weapons, knocked at the door of a villager asking him to tell a few other young men of the village to gather near the historic Lakshmi Narayan Temple (constructed by the great Dogra warrior General Zorawar Singh around 1840), as their officer wanted to talk to them about something urgent. Though militancy had already erupted in the Kashmir valley, it was slow to spread to the districts of Jammu. The only militancy-related incident having occurred in Doda till then was the killing of minority community passengers traveling in a bus near Sarthal in Doda two years ago (1994). Hence none of the Barshalla villagers could think of terrorists swooping on their village in the guise of army officers. Many young men of the village got up and gathered near the temple, only to find out death waiting for them. The stillness of that night was broken by the clutter of automatic guns. Doda, for the first time, hit national and international headlines as Barshalla lost 15 men, most of them youngsters, in the first massacre of minority community members in the entire district. Words fail Kanan Chand Sharma, a former employee of the state information department when he starts talking about that fateful night which swallowed a total of ten members of his clan including his grandson, his brother who was a retired havaldar, his three sons and other relatives. "We had read in the Mahabharata only that they would burn many bodies together at the end of battle each day as they were short on fuel. We did the same that day when we burnt many bodies on one single pyre," says Sharma terming that night as one of the nightmares of his life. As the entire village was shell-shocked, women and children were wailing and the entire village was ready for the exodus, nobody from the state administration visited them. Shrieks and cries rented the air the whole night piercing through its once serene settings. Today, even after 11 years, Barshalla doesn't go to sleep. The whole night, the men of the village keep vigil by rotation. After the massacre, the first village defence committee (VDC) to be set up in Doda was in this minority village. The concept was to give arms to the villagers and train them so they could defend themselves against terrorist attacks till reinforcements could reach them. Some weapons were given to the Barshalla villagers, but it hasn't helped them much. "The obsolete .303 guns that have been given to us don't work properly. Not only are our arms no match for the sophisticated weapons of the militants, the 150 rounds of ammunition that is given to each member of the VDC is also accounted for," says Naveen Kumar, a special police officer (SPO) attached to the VDC here. Every VDC has 7-8 members with three special police officers. Since that fateful night, the village has come under terrorist fire 17 times, but retaliation by the villagers with their outdated guns has forced them to retreat. Though the VDC was set up to defend the village, problems associated with it are manifold. If the militants attack the village and the VDC members retaliate, each one of them has to collect the empty cartridges after the firing as these have to be submitted to the district SSP as proof of having actually fired the rounds. Besides, after every such incident when they take on the militants, the VDC members have to go to Doda city to give details to the police who "interrogate them like culprits and not protectors of the village". What is more complicated is the fact that if the bullets do not hit the terrorists, the villagers are scolded by the police "as they wasted the fire". "Does it mean that we should wait for the militant to come near us and target us instead of stopping him on the outskirts of the village by firing," asks Suresh Kumar, a villager. Apathy on the part of the district administration could well be gauged from the fact that the villagers who exhausted their ammunition retaliating against militants in the past few months, have not been given fresh ammunition by the police. At times, for lack of ammunition the Barshalla villagers burst crackers to keep the militants away, but it seems that sound hasn't reached the ears of the administration. Villagers here smell a deep-rooted conspiracy for the exodus of minorities from the hills to plains. Also, the construction of the 2.5 km long Barshalla-Thathri road which was sanctioned 15 years ago, hasn't seen the light of day, while the 7 km long neighbouring Jangalwar-Thathri road, which was cleared a couple of years ago, has been constructed. This, the villagers allege, is because their village is a Hindu village while Jangalwar is Muslim-dominated. Ask the Doda deputy commissioner, Mr Saurav Bhagat, about it and he says that the delay is because this road will be constructed with Central funds. "It will be taken up soon," he adds. Barshalla villagers are so irritated that they now threaten to pick up the gun and join militant ranks. At least then, they say, they will not have to beg to the government for their safety. Is anybody listening? Perhaps you Mr Azad, the son of the soil? (The author is a Special Representative of The Statesman based in Jammu) * * -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From tapasrayx at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 16:36:03 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:36:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police firing in Andhra Pradesh In-Reply-To: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46B1BA9B.8010509@gmail.com> One is yet to hear what Prakash Ray himself has to say about the Khammam firing. TR prakash ray wrote: > You all are aware about the police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district > of Andhra Pradesh which killed six people. I am surprised on the silence on > the reader list which had series of debates and discussions and informations > about the Nandigram incident (though the entire episode was totally > overlooked by many on the list). I don't doubt the emotional and political > levels of the people around, but it is certainly disappointing to see such > silence. > > I hope we will be able to respond to the happenings around us in more > responsible manner and without being selective about the victims. From ysikand at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 05:11:13 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 05:11:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sign Petition: Punish the Guilty of the Anti Muslim Pogrom of 1992-1992 In-Reply-To: <48097acc0708011640n7e3cd274o110bfc008e1ca933@mail.gmail.com> References: <48097acc0708011640n7e3cd274o110bfc008e1ca933@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48097acc0708011641y44ef6affyb64f654e4bda28e2@mail.gmail.com> To: citizens of Mumbai, India and the world Punish the Guilty of the Anti Muslim Pogrom of 1992-1993 Justice for All The convictions of the accused in the 1993 Bombay blasts case are intended to be a form of redress for the 250 families who lost dear ones in the serial blasts and aim to send the message that the Indian system delivers justice for all crimes, especially mass crimes of unspeakable brutality. But the bomb blasts of March 12, 1993 were only the external symptoms of a cancer that had gnawed away at Mumbai's vital organs with the abject failure of the state machinery to protect the city's Muslim population during the horrendous communal riots of December 1992 and January 1993. More than three times as many Mumbaikars were killed in the riots that preceded the bomb blasts but the lack of action against the perpetrators of the riots � who are named in the Srikrishna report � is clear evidence of the operation of a double standard of justice, one for the majority community and the other for the minorities. India and it systems of democracy, executive, judiciary and legislature, need to reflect. The bomb terror of March 12, 1993 must be recalled with the same horror as the mob terror of December 6, 1992, in Ayodhya, resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives all over the country. The causes of the blasts, too, must be revived in public memory. As the Srikrishna report observed: "The serial bomb blasts were a reaction to the totality of events at Ayodhya and Bombay in December 1992 and January 1993� The common link between the riots and the blasts was that of cause and effect." Information obtained under the Right to Information Act makes it clear that successive state governments, no matter what their political persuasion, have decided to shield the guilty. The motivations of the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Shiv Sena parties in refusing to implement the recommendations of the Srikrishna Commission are obvious: among the individuals named in the report are several of their leaders and cadres, including Bal Thackeray, Manohar Joshi, Gopinath Munde and Madhukar Sarpotdar. What is more shocking is the role of the so-called secular parties. Though the manifestos of both the Congress Party and the Nationalist Congress Party in 1999 and 2004 promised to implement the recommendations of the report, these promises remain unfulfilled. The report also lays bare the biased role played by 31 police officers, including RD Tyagi, who as then joint commissioner, shot dead nine persons at the Suleiman Usman Bakery labelling them "Kashmiri terrorists". Another senior police officer, NK Kapse was promoted after a departmental inquiry exonerated him of any guilt in shooting down seven persons at the Hari Masjid located at Rafi Ahmed Kidwai Marg. Save one policeman who was dismissed from service, all others have escaped lightly despite being found guilty of complicity in acts of murder and arson. The RTI findings also demonstrate a complete absence of vigour in pursuing riot-related cases through the judicial system. Cases have been closed in a seemingly arbitrary fashion and appeals have not been filed against acquittals in the lower courts. If a genuine peace is to return to Mumbai, there must be justice. Continued injustices cause schisms to widen, wounds to fester. Justice can only be truly served by implementing the recommendations of the Srikrishna Commission report. We urge the state government to do so immediately. It must devote as much energy and resources to obtaining justice for the victims of the Mumbai riots as it mustered up for the victims of the Mumbai bomb blasts. We also believe that the process must be visible and transparent. Only then will the deep wounds caused by the targeted violence of 1992-1993 heal, bringing enduring peace. Public Release of the Statement/Signature Campaign Indian Merchants Chamber, Churchgate August 9, 2007; 5.30 p.m. Contact: Justice For All Campaign, Telephone: 022-26602288/26603927 Email: sabrang at sabrang.com SIGNATURE CAMPAIGN: Vijay Tendulkar Anil Dharker Naresh Fernandes Ram Rehman Teesta Setalvad Nandan Maluste Arvind Krishnaswamy Javed Anand Sincerely, To sing the petition, click on http://www.PetitionOnline.com/jus4all/petition.html -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Thu Aug 2 18:59:01 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:59:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ban Kashmir docu: Pandit Message-ID: *Ban Kashmir docu: Pandit* *TIMES NEWS NETWORK* *Mumbai:* Five days after the Mumbai police seized DVDs of Sanjay Kak's documentary on Kashmir, Jashn-e-Azadi, the film continued to be shrouded in uncertainty as no explanation came from the department. There was, though, no let-up in strong reactions from civil society. While most film-makers, art critics and students have criticised the decision to stall the screening, others like director Ashok Pandit, a Kashmiri pandit, said showing 'an uncensored film in public' was against the law. "It was not being screened in someone's house, it was being screened in a public place,'' said Pandit, adding that he had seen the documentary when it was screened in Delhi. "The film should be banned as it speaks only from the terrorist's point of view. It shows nothing about the carnage and exodus of Kashmiri pandits. If the talk is about freedom of expression, then it should be understood that the country and its security come first,'' Pandit said. The private screening organised by Vikalp, a group of independent film-makers, was disrupted last Friday after a team from the Dadar police stormed Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan in Prabhadevi and seized the DVDs. Jashn deals with the experience of Kashmiris during the long period of strife in the Valley. Reacting to the silence of the police, Kak said, "They (police) reacted with alacrity on the basis of an email and seized the DVDs. But now, five days have passed and they are yet to make a statement on the matter,'' said Kak. "The screening was private, like those organised in other cities of the country.'' Around 40 people had gathered for the screening, and they waited patiently for an hour, but had to leave without getting to experience the film. It was the first screening of Jashn in Mumbai. and was recently shown in Delhi as part of Osian's Cinefan, the ninth festival of Arab and Asian cinema. TOUGH TALK: The director feels the film has been made from a terrorist's point of view alone *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From patrice at xs4all.nl Thu Aug 2 20:46:49 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:16:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Kai Friese: Slow Speed - The long afternoon of underdevelopment Message-ID: <15410.82.73.9.6.1186067809.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> >From Bidoun , the _fantastic_ art & culture magazine based in Beyrouth http://www.bidoun.com Subscribe! Slow Speed The long afternoon of underdevelopment By Kai Friese (http://www.bidoun.com/issues/issue_11/04_all.html#article) Illustration by Jon Santos (check that one - it's pure Ravi Sundaram! ;-) In 1973, I was ten years old, my best friend was Ashish Deshpande, and our favorite activity was dreaming. In our favorite dream, we would acquire a large airplane and fly away in it. We researched our dream-scripts in the pages of Hamlyn's Pocket Guide to Aircraft. For some inexplicable reason, we selected the Fairey Gannet, a spectacularly dowdy machine, as our transport of choice. It was an odd plane, with two counter-rotating propellers on its nose. And it is odd, now, to remember such nuggets of childhood memory so clearly. But what seems really odd is that we actually used to do this, settle down to spend an afternoon dreaming. Ashish and I shared another daydream, which later became a wager: that our fathers would become Brain Drains. We wanted them to get jobs in the West and take us away from Delhi, from India, forever. I still have the sketchbook on the back of which we both signed the deal: "If you go first, I pay Rs 100." Neither of us had a hundred rupees. But I never stood a chance. Ashish's father, Sharad Uncle, was an underpaid research scientist who did unspeakable things to cats at the Patel Chest Institute. But he had prospects. Whereas my father had already flown away-to India. He was a peculiar German, who had come to study at the Delhi School of Economics and stayed on to earn a comfortable living in the Press Department of the West German Embassy, fighting Communism (or at least, the Press Department of the East German Embassy). What really killed me was that, before I was born, he had worked for Lufthansa in New York City. So why in the third world were we stuck in Delhi? Sharad Uncle and Baba were like counter-rotating propellers. I still owe Ashish a hundred bucks. After Sharad Uncle got a job at Johns Hopkins, I didn't see Ashish again for ten years. Then, in my twenties, on my own way to an American university, I went to spend a weekend in Baltimore with the Deshpandes. Ashish and I chatted away, even after the lights were out and we were in our beds, catching up with the slight reserve that comes from knowing too little and too much about one another-until we started talking about girls. And Ashish shouted, "I love sex!" with such enthusiasm that we both dissolved in laughter. It was good to have something new in common. Maybe we dreamed so much back then because we didn't have TVs. When my cable connection died earlier this year, I decided I couldn't be bothered to replace it. Lately, I've been spending a lot more time in my head. Not dreaming so much as remembering. I realize that many of my childhood memories are preserved in the sharp vinegar of embarrassment. I'm still embarrassed. I'm embarrassed at how viscerally I craved the provisions of the first world. I knew this world existed because in 1969, we had gone to visit my grandparents in Germany and my aunt in America. I can still remember the shock of seeing a car on display in the concourse of Frankfurt airport. A whole car! In a building! It was just a lottery prize. We came back with fat catalogs from German department stores-Kaufhof, Quelle, and Karstadt-and I spent many hours poring over those encyclopedias of the unattainable. That same year I was sent to the British School in Delhi, where many of my classmates were the children of diplomats. They came and went in a convoy of exotic automobiles: Mercs and Toyotas, Peugeots and Holdens, Fords and Vauxhalls. And they smelled different. They were perfumed with wealth. These kids washed with foreign soaps, used imported detergents on their imported clothes, wiped their bums on Andrex toilet tissue. They ate Danish ham and Tiptree's jam. They wore braces gummy with Marmite, Nutella, and Kraft cheese. At home, we had a small larder, kept under lock and key, which contained an assortment of these goods and an indescribably luxurious aroma of its own. But my father was a local employee at the embassy, and our quotidian consumer goods were Indian, the classic products of those days of import substitution industrialization. They had their own hierarchy. Soap, for example, ran from the yellow ochre sticks purchased by the inch for the kitchen sink, to the dull-red Lifebuoy, which smelled of servants, to the indigenous opulence of Moti sandalwood soap. But mostly we used sickly green bricks of Hamam and Cinthol. Even our toothpaste was green-Binaca Green. In the mid-70s, I went to see a film at Archana Cinema and came away feeling utterly repulsed. It was Soylent Green with Charlton Heston, set in a Malthusian post-consumerist dystopia where even jam has become a luxury item. The masses subsist on green biscuits-the Soylent Green of the title-which the Soylent Corporation maintains are made of kelp and plankton. Heston's character, a detective, finds himself investigating the "euthanasia centers" where the poor and the elderly go to die. At the end of the film, he screams aloud his harrowing discovery: "Soylent Green is people!" What made me sick was that it looked suspiciously like Hamam. It's true, we are what we eat. Import substitution is people too. I'm one of them. I remember things past. Things like biscuits (Britannia Nice and Bourbon), soap and detergent (Tinopal, Tinopal, Tinopal!), and cars (the Standard Gazelle-based on the rakish Triumph Herald but indigenized to the point that it became dowdier than a Fairey Gannet). And telephones (trunk calls and lightning calls, and our first telephone connection-40537, a number I will never forget). The elastic belts from my sister's Carefree sanitary napkins, which I used as slingshots. The ersatz colas: Pepino, Double Seven, and Campa. RimZim and Gold Spot ("Jee bharke jiyo, Gold Spot piyo"). Canvas jeans from Jeans Junction. Nativist burgers (spicy patties, fried buns, and thick slices of onion). The buxom, bouffanted plaster mannequins in their silk saris at Handloom House. The comic books: the Phantom. More than anything else, I remember the ritual of listening to the radio with Baba. The sense of urgency at tuning in to the BBC World Service in the evenings, the trilling pipes of "Lily Bolero" followed by tantalizing time pips-and then the news, which washed in like cargo on the surging crests of short wave, our tenuous link to the distant West. But the program that really defines this era for me was the weird and poetic News Read at Slow Speed on All India Radio. This was an afternoon service-almost a liturgy-that we would often catch at the table, when Baba came home for lunch and a siesta. The grey Grundig would buzz and hum with importance as it pronounced: "This... is... All... India... Radio Bzzzz The... News Hmmm Read... at... Slow... Speed Bzzzz by... Surojit... Sen." The portentous pauses were intended to help provincial correspondents take notes. But the news was never news. We would hear instead that the procurement target of twenty million quintals of rice from the kharif crop had been met. Or that the Romanian minister for culture and cooperation had arrived on a state visit. And yet it crackled with significance, like it was intended for news of an assassination. Which did come, eventually. Usually my father would give me a sideways glance at the end of the news, and a complicit smile would wrinkle the thin crescent etched on his cheek. Jawaharlal Nehru had the same crease. It is a line I hope I'm beginning to acquire, too. It was a smile that said: this is silly, but it's not so bad, this life lived at slow speed. Baba was fiercely proud of his degree from the Delhi School of Economics. As a child, I struggled to comprehend how he could be so dismissive of the lecture halls of Hamburg University, which he had abandoned for this new Valhalla, peopled by Indians with names like Jagdish Bhagwati, Amartya Sen, and Manmohan Singh. His particular favorite was Professor KN Raj. In later years, he made regular pilgrimages to visit his old tutor. This was troubling. Baba was a gentle but committed cold warrior. He was ten when World War II ended in his country's liberation, and like many of his generation, he was not just pro-America, he was madly in love with it. With jazz and movies and moonrockets and the Kennedys. Yet as far as I could tell, the old professor was a Communist. It's still a puzzle. I know now, as my father must have known then, that Surojit Sen was only speaking his lines. It was KN Raj who wrote the script of the News Read at Slow Speed. He was the man who first advised Nehru to "hasten slowly." I know that KN Raj was at least half in love with the Soviet Union. And I know he was an honorable man. I fantasized that my father was a spy for one side or another. When we heard on the news that the minister for railways had been mortally wounded by a mysterious bomb, I knew something was up. That was in January 1975. Five months later, I followed my father, now a foreign correspondent for German newspapers, to attend a rally at the roundabout outside the prime minister's bungalow. He wanted me to translate. "Conspiracy," she said. And, "Foreign hand." I remember the eighteen months of Indira Gandhi's Emergency as a time of danger and excitement. There was the cult of personality that surrounded Indira and her thuggish heir apparent, Sanjay, the shuttered newspapers, the locked-up parliamentarians. At last the secret was out: the government was bad, everyone good was underground or in jail, and Baba was a spy, or something similar, smuggling reports out through strangers at the airport and writing under the code name Jens Nielssen. My daydreams became increasingly complex. Without Ashish, they were more solipsistic, even a little sinister. There were only two of them. In the sweeter one, I found myself alone in the world with Helen, a Dutch classmate I had fancied for years. We traveled around the desolate, abandoned country for a while, taking what we wanted from shops and diplomats' houses. Then we flew out of Palam Airport in a 707 to live off the supermarkets of the West. In the other, more disturbing dream, I worked out that everything in the world-or rather worlds, first, second, and third-was a fiction, an elaborate psycho-theatrical experiment with me as its subject. Nothing was as it seemed. It was Surojit Sen who finally broke the news to me. He took his time. That daymare came back to me years later, watching The Truman Show and The Matrix. But by that time India was a very different country. I had returned from my American college in 1990, a failed Brain Drain, having taken four years to complete a one-year MA. Just before I left New York, I watched the world change on TV, as the Berlin Wall fell and the Iron Curtain parted. At the same time, a friend of mine, a successful Brain Drain who works as an oceanographer in Kiel, was on a polar voyage. He returned with tales of partying with colleagues at Dakshin Gangotri, India's Antarctic station. Afterward they ferried glum scientists from the East German outpost back to a country that no longer existed. In India it seemed that our homespun khadi curtains were fluttering. My worried parents pushed me into a job in what was then Bombay-at a venerable magazine that survived, sleepily, on handouts from the equally venerable Tata Corporation. I was hectored by a lovely old Parsi bird called Lulu Mehta who threw the colonial canon of copyediting ("Fowler, Partridge, and Quiller-Couch!") at me every chance she got. One afternoon the entire office assembled in the garret of the Army and Navy Building to listen dutifully to a tape-recorded address, "On Excellence," from the chairman himself, JRD Tata. Then we applauded. But Bombay was too glamorous and energetic for me. There was an unsettling entrepreneurial buzz about it, and a careerist chatter that made me nervous. Longing for the old torpor of Delhi, I quit my job and came home. I struggled as a freelancer quite happily until one day it was 1993, I was married, my father was about to retire, and the quiet D-School professor Manmohan Singh was India's finance minister. None of this troubled me, actually, but Baba seemed to know something I didn't. He nagged and nagged and pushed me into another job, a proper job, at a newsmagazine. At thirty, my long afternoon of underdevelopment was over. I had a career. A terminal condition, it seems. Just before I quit the newsmagazine to move on and double my salary, I had my first presentiment that the country was changing again. I set out to write a satirical essay on the dinosaurs of bureaucracy that had survived Manmohan Singh's first wave of economic liberalization. I was quite pleased with the title-"Bureaucratic Park"-though it never saw the light of day. But the real thrill was finding myself back on very familiar turf. Grimy corridors, supplicant citizens, and the "concerned officer" enthroned on his swivel chair. I loved the scenery-the towel on the backrest, the psychedelic paperweights... the papers beneath them. There was the Commission for Scientific and Technical Terminology, an Orwellian outfit that produced a Comprehensive Glossary of Administrative Terms in English and the vernacular. "Hindi is very poor in terms," a commissioner told me. Another office nurtured the remains of Indira Gandhi's 20-Point Program from the Emergency days. "We look after points 1, 5, 8, 11, 14, 15, and 16," a man told me. "The other thirteen have been dropped." My favorite was the Office of Stationery. "Please apply in writing. In triplicate," they told me. I went to visit them instead, and found the assembled staff standing hushed and yes, stationary, at their desks. It was a moment of silence for a fallen colleague, a bureaucratic wake. Today Manmohan Singh is our prime minister, and my home is cluttered with pre-liberalization memorabilia. I have two black rotary-dial phones with trilling electromechanical bells and a bakelite radio that buzzes and hums. I have assorted Nehruviana, including a Publications Division comic on Nehru and the new temples of India, and another book called Rhymes on Nehru. I have World's Wisest Wizard: Sanjay Gandhi. I have a bust and three statues of Ambedkar. (If I could find one of Indiraji, I'd buy it in an instant.) One lucky day, I found a copy of Following Lenin's Course, The Speeches and Articles of LI Brezhnev. The speeches are peppered with four kinds of applause: "applause," "prolonged applause," "stormy applause," and "stormy prolonged applause." In his speech to the Eighth Congress of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany in June 1971, the floodgates burst: "'Stormy, prolonged applause.' All rise. The Congress delegates and guests remain standing till the end of the speech... 'Friendship!' 'Long live the CPSU!' 'Hurrah!'" Outside my house, a consumer revolution is turning my country upside down. The revolution is televised. In fact, to a large extent, it is television. But I don't watch TV anymore. Sometimes I watch DVDs. Just days ago, I saw Good Bye Lenin!, which belongs to a genre the Germans call "Ostalgie." (Germans are wittier than you think.) It follows a young East German man who tries to shield his dying mother from the reality of reunification by constructing an elaborate televisual Truman Show around her. But it's really about respecting the past you share with the ones you love. I never cry at movies, but this one nearly got me. It ends with this monologue from the hero, Daniel Brühl: Das Land das meine Mutter verließ, war ein Land an das sie geglaubt hatte... Ein Land das es in Wirklichkeit nie so gegeben hat. Ein Land das in meiner Erinnerung immer mit meiner Mutter verbunden sein wird. The country that my mother left was a land that she believed in...A country that was never quite what it seemed. A country that in my memory will always be bound to my mother. My mother, God bless her, is still with me. It's my father he's talking about. I've lost some of my childhood enthusiasm for air travel, but these days it seems I go to the airport every other month. To pick up my wife, or a relative, or a friend. And nowadays it's not the cargo I look forward to so much as the people. Maybe one day I'll meet Ashish here. Standing in the crowd behind the fence in the international arrivals lounge, we all stare expectantly down the long passage toward the doors of the baggage claim hall. There's a TV monitor where we can see the apparition of long-lost loved ones materialize for an instant on an escalator. They pass like newly molded foreign goods into the hands of customs and immigration. But I keep my eyes on the doorway where they emerge, stamped and certified. They walk slowly into focus, looking more and more familiar, until they find the face they're looking for and we're strangers once again. More than once I've caught my breath at the sight of Baba walking toward me. But he never arrives. It's just a dream. From sanjeev.rgtu at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 01:00:10 2007 From: sanjeev.rgtu at gmail.com (Sanjeev Sharma) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 01:00:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Call for Paper - Bharatiya Vigyan Sammelan, BVS 2007, Bhopal MP Message-ID: <311151090708021230l71d71f2fw6ead24fda048c70a@mail.gmail.com> Bharatiya Vigyan Sammelan, 23-25 November, 2007 http://www.bvsindia.org The focal theme of the conference is - *Integral Scientific Management of Natural Resources For Sustainable Development with special focus on Best Traditional and Current Practices in Agri-Forestry and Rural Technology in India and Abroad. * In addition to individual delegates and representatives from institutions, the conference will also have associate delegates comprising of Post-graduates and Research Scholars as observers, selected from R&D institutions, Colleges and Universities. We invite all Scientists, Technocrats, Academicians, Policy Makers, Research Scholars, Students and common people who have an affinity towards Science and Technology to participate and contribute to this conference. Science and Technology, forms the thrust engine of development for any society. An overwhelmingly large number of over 6 lac villages still await infrastructure facilities and basic amenities. There is a growing disparity between the haves and the have-nots. It is becoming increasingly imperative that inclusive growth becomes a reality and not just a slogan. We have a gigantic task at hand. Effective intervention through appropriate technologies can play an important role in providing urban amenities in rural areas. These interventions will be able to control the ever-growing problems of urbanization, rural poverty, environmental degradation and unequal growth. Language plays a very significant role in the 'lab to land' concept. In our country, with 23 recognized official national languages including Hindi and English, language plays a key role in science and technology dissemination among the masses.India, a nation of a billion people, cradle of the oldest civilization of mankind, is marching ahead with indomitable power and incorrigible confidence. Home to the 2nd largest population of the world, we have to fulfill a billion dreams as well as our global responsibilities The conference shall comprise of invited talks from eminent personalities in the area of interest and contributed papers for oral/poster presentations. Scientists, Technologists, Research Scholars, Policy makers and Stake Holders in S & T are invited to send two page Extended Abstracts (in Hindi or English or both) of their papers before 15th August, 2007. The Abstracts should be accompanied with Registration form for attending the conference. The Abstracts and full paper may be sent as MS-Word files to :\ bvs at rgtu.net The Abstracts can also be sent as hard copies to * Executive Chairman, Bhartiya Vigyan Sammelan, Samanvay Karyalaya, B-44, 45 Banglow, Professors Colony, Opp Mulla Ramuzi Bhawan, Bhopal, MP* * Conference Theme:* 1. Agriculture, Horticulture, Animal Husbandry and Veterinary Sciences 2. Forestry and Environmental Sciences 3. Water Management 4. Energy Management 5. Mineral Resources and Materials Science/Technology 6. Meteorology and Climate 7. Health and Medical Sciences including AYUSH and Nutraceuticals 8. Housing, Habitat and Architecture 9. Basic Sciences : Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Astronomy, Life Sciences. 10. Cutting Edge Technologies (BIO, IT, NANO - Status and Possibilities) 11. Science Communication through Regional Languages 12. Engineering and Technological Sciences 13 Marine and Aquaculture Sciences Last date for : Abstract Submission :30th August, 2007 Notification for Acceptance : 30th September, 2007 Submission of Full Text of paper :15th October, 2007 Registration:15th October, 2007 *The Registration fee,* for the conference, which shall include the conference material and working lunch during the conference period, is as follows : Institutional Delegates : Rs. 5,000/- (upto 3 delegates) Individual Delegates : Rs. 1,000/- Research Scholars and Members of Organizing Institutions: Rs. 500/- Student Observers and Persons accompanying delegates : Rs. 500/- email : bvs at rgtu.net url: http://www.bvsindia.org Conference Dates : November 23-25, 2007 Venue: Ravindra Bhawan, Bhopal Our mailing address is: Samanvay Karyalaya, B-44, 45 Banglow Opposite Mulla Ramuzi Bhawan, Professors Colony, Bhopal, MP Our Contect: bvs at rgtu.net -- Sanjeev Sharma Faculty. School of Information Technology Rajiv Gandhi Technological University, Air Port By Pass Road, Bhopal (M.P.) India 462 036 PH: +917552678825 Fax : +917552678834 From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 01:18:59 2007 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Taraprakash) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 01:18:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police firing in Andhra Pradesh References: <98f331e00708012330o9c0041esd425136fc44b1e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <023b01c7d53e$2df1abd0$0201a8c0@IBM61525879EE4> There wasn't much to say on that. Some people are considering it as a family affair to be sorted out with in the family, there are some who are calling it as a "friendly fire". I know what happened here was as bad as Nandi Gram. But the list was completely silent is not a fact. there were some mails on the issue, including yours. I am pasting the contents of one of them. Yet another example of state sponsored terrorism. But interestingly, may be ironically, Renuka Chaudhary, the MP from Khammam said the same thing as did CPIM about incidents in Singur and Nandi Gram. According to her there were Nuxalites present on the site and they were responsible for the violence. I don't think the life of 5 6 activists matters to CPIM high command when some positive action might lead to the loss of power in the center. all said and done, what happened was really unfortunate and inexcusable. Reader list may appear to be silent, it is not that CPIM is making much noise. ----- Original Message ----- From: "prakash ray" To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Police firing in Andhra Pradesh > You all are aware about the police firing in Mudigonda in Khammam district > of Andhra Pradesh which killed six people. I am surprised on the silence > on > the reader list which had series of debates and discussions and > informations > about the Nandigram incident (though the entire episode was totally > overlooked by many on the list). I don't doubt the emotional and political > levels of the people around, but it is certainly disappointing to see such > silence. > > I hope we will be able to respond to the happenings around us in more > responsible manner and without being selective about the victims. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pnnhindi at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 22:17:57 2007 From: pnnhindi at gmail.com (pnn hindi) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 22:17:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Invitation for Press Conference on August 3, 2007, 4 PM, Press Club Message-ID: <2E145D07-4661-4A4C-840F-B7CD9BD135E6@gmail.com> Subject: Invitation for Press Conference on August 3, 2007, 4 PM, Press Club Dear , The Campaign for Judicial Accountability and Reforms is holding a Press Conference on August 3, 2007 at the Press Club of India, Raisina Road, New Delhi at 4 PM to highlight a grave case of Judicial Misconduct at the Apex of the Indian Judiciary. At the press conference we will disclose how the then Chief Justice of India who had spearheaded the sealing drive was mired in serious conflict of interest in as much as his sons were deeply involved in the business of shopping malls and commercial complexes who stood to benefit from this sealing drive. Very important revelations will be made and documents released about this case. Where The Press Conference will be addressed by Shri Shanti Bhushan, former Union Law Minister, Mr. Bhaskar Rao, Chairman, Centre for Media Studies, Ms. Kamini Jaiswal, advocate, Supreme Court and Mr. Prashant Bhushan among others. Kindly send a reporter to cover the Press Conference. Thanking you, (PRASHANT BHUSHAN) PS: incase you are unable to attend please send a colleague to cover the conference Please feel free to call: Devvrat (981181730) or Leena (9811137421) -- Campaign for Judicial Accountability and Judicial Reforms 14, Tower 2, Supreme Enclave, Mayur Vihar Phase- INew Delhi- 110 091 Tel: 9811137421, 9811818730; E-mail:judicialreforms at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pkray11 at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 12:25:51 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:25:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] SAHMAT clarifications on recent reports in a section of media Message-ID: <98f331e00708022355m7a0b38bx153024ee6d75c823@mail.gmail.com> Dear friend, A letter dated 16.07.2007 with the subject title 'Reply to Legal Notice dated 04.07.2007', written by advocate Jai Singh Sheikhupura on behalf of his client Gauhar Raza, and addressed to Nandita Rao, advocate for SAHMAT, has been circulated to the press and on the internet. SAHMAT believes that the following clarifications are in order, as the above-mentioned letter has led to a number of misconceptions. 1. The Legal Notice referred to was sent on behalf of SAHMAT by SAHMAT's advocate Nandita Rao, to Shakeel Ahmed Khan of the Nehru Yuvak Kendra Sangthan (NYKS), and Shri Mani Shankar Aiyar, Minister of Youth Affairs and Sports. 2. The Legal Notice was with regard to the mass circulation by the NYKS of a video-CD of the film 'Jung-E-Azadi', which had been made by SAHMAT in 1997 during our year-long commemoration of the 140th anniversary of the 1857 rebellion. It had come to our notice that in the copy of the film which was being circulated to all its centres by the NYKS recently, the credits at the beginning and end – A SAHMAT and TVI Presentation – had been removed.Inother words, all mention of SAHMAT was obliterated. 3. The film 'Jung-e-Azadi' was the culmination of a large, collective effort involving many collaborators, which began with a public event organised by SAHMAT at the Red Fort lawns on May 11th, 1997, to commemorate the 140th anniversary of 1857. At that event, there were presentations of plays, music by Shubha Mudgal and Indian Ocean, and folk artists from Haryana singing songs of the revolt. Zohra Sehgal performed a scripted dramatic recitation which accompanied projected video clips of photographs, maps, lithographs and clips from films on 1857. There was also a large exhibition mounted on the lawns. The research for the exhibition, which was the basis for Zohra Sehgal's recitation, the video clips and the subsequently published book, Red the Earth, both textual and visual, was done by Professor Irfan Habib, The Aligarh Historians Society, Professor Ravinder Kumar(then Director of the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library), Professor Narayani Gupta, Professor Jim Masselos with additional photographic research by Ram Rahman, amongst many others. 4. The video 'Jung-e-Azadi' was subsequently filmed in the BITV studios as a recreation of the Red Fort performance. This was broadcast by BITV then, and has continued to be widely screened and circulated for the last ten years. 5. The current circulation of the film by NYKS after removing all references to SAHMAT is thus an attempt to alter the historical record in the public sphere, and we regard the mutilation as a criminal offence. SAHMAT has not received any reply to its Legal Notice from the NYKS or the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports. Instead, there is the above-cited letter issued by Gauhar Raza's advocate. This has come as a surprise to us, and we would like to clarify that SAHMAT has not issued a legal notice to either Gauhar Raza or Shabnam Hashmi. Nor do their names feature in our Legal Notice to the NYKS and the Ministry. We would also like to make very clear that we have never made any allegations of financial impropriety against any individuals. We sincerely hope this clarifies SAHMAT's stand while we await a reply from the NYKS and the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports. From fsrnkashmir at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 16:59:30 2007 From: fsrnkashmir at gmail.com (Shahnawaz Khan) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:59:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 5th posting: Kashmir's only poster boy Message-ID: <2ad82fd30708030429q4dc482fex8a09c5d17efe66a9@mail.gmail.com> *Kashmir's only poster boy* Not only in Srinagar but in whole of Kashmir Valley with a population of six million, Neelam is the only functional Cinema hall. With people having lost interest in cinema halls and there has been a considerable fall in the number of cine-goers since 1990, the management of Neelam is struggling hard to make their presence felt within the city limits. Putting up posters of the coming film is a small task in other places, but it is a daunting job in Srinagar. The cinema is unable to pay for advertisements in the local papers. In order to boost their business and to announce about the latest shows or new releases of Bollywood films, pasting film posters in the city's space is really a challenging task. Prior to insurgency each cinema hall used to have few people on the payrolls for the job of pasting posters in and outside the city. For Neelam Cinema today Ashraf is the only poster boy. A man in late twenties, Ashraf was employed as a sweeper in the Cinema hall after it was thrown open in 1997. However, Ashraf is not comfortable with the job of pasting the film posters on the city's walls and intersections. Since there is a ban on cinema halls, he fears the backlash from the people who ordered the ban. "See ours is the only cinema hall functional in the city. That way we have defied the diktat. It is really a challenging job to paste a poster in the old town or locality. Anyone can create trouble anytime," said Ashraf. Though Ashraf is reluctant to talk about his job of pasting the posters and feels that it would land him up in trouble. "See I am a poor man and do this for making two ends of my family meet. While pasting posters, my effort remains that no one should see me," he said. There have been instances when he was rebuked by some youth for pasting posters. Even some posters were torn from the walls the moment he pasted it. "I don't want to indulge in any fight with anyone. One day some guys told me that I am promoting obscenity and Allah will not spare me," recalls Ashraf. The management hires an auto rickshaw and always sends another person with Ashraf, while he pastes the posters. Most of the posters are being pasted in high security zones, where there is constant presence of army and para-military forces. "Mostly I paste the posters in Badmibagh cantonment area and outside our own Cinema hall, where there is lesser movement of people," Ashraf said. After the opening of cinema hall the biggest challenge with the owners was how to advertise about the show and timings. Initially they used to buy the space in the newspapers for advertising new releases and show timings but poor response from the people forced them to change their modus operendi. "We could not afford to buy the space in newspapers, therefore we were forced to sent our guys to paste the posters on the street walls," said Mohammed Ayub, the project operator at Neelam cinema hall. Pasting of film posters undergo a censorship when it comes to Kashmir and the censorship lies with the poster boy. Ashraf in consultation with the cinema management often artfully blacken the bold exposures by women celebrities on these posters. The glaring example of censorship was evident in the month of June from a bold exposure of celebrity showcasing the film, "LOU- Ek Ehsaas". "I remember when I was asked to paste the posters of Ahsaas, I thought that it will not go well with the people over here. I bought a black ink marker from the stationary shop and artfully tried to hide the breasts and naked legs of the star by drawing lines on her body. After that it looked as if she was wearing a net," said Ashraf. "You have to do it, it you want to continue with it," he adds. In the Srinagar city today you won't come across bigger than life size images of celebrities on the film posters nor would find any full size poster pasted on the wall. What usually is seen the torn away posters on the walls. Noor Mohammed, the ticket seller and the oldest employee of the Neelam cinema says that in past tongas (horse driven carts) were hired and then decorated with the film posters so as to sent it inside the Srinagar city and outskirts for announcing the show and timings. He misses the fervour and the presences of large film size posters in every nook and corner of the city. Are you a publisher interested in indepth news features from Kashmir? Visit www.kashmirnewz.com From vivek at sarai.net Fri Aug 3 17:23:28 2007 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:23:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Indian Online Journals Message-ID: <46B31738.4050702@sarai.net> Phalanx is a new journal out of Bangalore, edited by M.K. Raghavendra-- it's quirky, eclectic, searching, "a forum for continuing debate": http://www.phalanx.in/ ...and 'New Quest', the famous old journal, now edited by Dilip Chitre, is finally online: http://www.newquestindia.com/ More and more to come... Enjoy, Vivek -- www.sarai.net Vivek Narayanan The Sarai Programme Centre for the Study of Developing Societies 29,Rajpur Road, Civil Lines Delhi 110 054. From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Aug 3 20:06:56 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:06:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi In-Reply-To: <102065.38042.qm@web27904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <102065.38042.qm@web27904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46B33D88.40709@sarai.net> Dear All, I have been following with interest the thread on the Reader List regarding the interrupted (or should I say prevented) screening of Jashn-e-Azadi in Mumbai, courtesy the Mumbai Police. It appears from the actions of the Mumbai Police that that the citizens of Mumbai are more in need of protection from various kinds of stimuli than those of us who have happily sat through more than one screening of the said film in Delhi, and in Srinagar without any harm being done to our minds or bodies. I am not writing to defend the film here, because I think a film, or any work of art does not need a 'defence'. A film, or a work of art, or any instance of communication is not an accused in a criminal court, we are not attorneys, advocates and lawyers, a mailing list is not a court. I am more interested in trying to think through some of the issues that have been addressed in various postings. Those who have called for a ban on the film, or have endorsed the Mumabai Police's actions, or have written angry mails protesting about its screening basically have the following arguments, and I will list them all. Do correct me if I miss any. 1. The film is one sided, it does not (adquately) represent the point of views of displaced Kashmiri Pandits. 2. The film gives space to people that some of the correspondents on this list consider to be 'terrorists'. 3. The film is not patriotic or nationalistic. I do not disagree with any of the above points. (though I have a qualified disagreement on point 3, to which I will come later). But even if all three points are agreed to, I still see no reason why the automatic response to them has to be a call for a ban. Or for a vilification of the filmmaker. Since it appears (or at least that is what I have been given to understand) that we live in a nominally free and open cultural space, there should be no problem at all for anyone to make films that they think best represents the position that they hold. Either we agree that this is the case, or we agree that your 'freedom of expression' has to stay within the narrow limits of what is permissible under the world view of Indian nationalism. In which event it does not remain freedom of expression any longer, rather it (the capacity to be expressive) turns automatically into a monopoly that only Indian nationalists can enjoy. In any case, nothing stops, or has stopped till now, anyone from making any film that - a). adequately represents the points of view and experiences of the Kashmiri Pandit community b) gives adequate space and consideration to those gentlemen in and out of uniform who unleash terror on the majority of the population of the Kashmir valley c) that oozes patriotism or nationalism from every frame (On this point I have a slight qualification to make, it seems to me, that there would be some, though not by any means all, perhaps mainly Kashmiri nationalists and patriots, who would not be disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azadi'. So it is inaccurate to say that the film has to be rejected if you are a nationalist or a patriot. It all depends on which kind of patriot or nationalist you are.) Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmiri nationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety of nationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. I have tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria by which sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can be judged against sentiments that attach to another configuration of territory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves to any bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you would deny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that they lay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do not have an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have a satisfactory answer? Does anyone even know if a satisfactory answer lies within the realm of a theorectial or a practical possibility. But this is a debate that we can continue on some other occasion, at least for now, let us return to the film that is exercising everyone so. So, those who are so disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azaadi', might think about how they can make their own film instead of trying to ensure that one that exists is canned. Similarly, those people in Kashmir, Iran, the UK, Indonesia, India, Egypt and Syria who stage spectacles calling for the assasination of Salman Rushdie, or Taslima Nasrin, or the authors of a batch of cartoons drawn in bad taste, might consider writing their own books, or drawing their own cartoons. Killing an author or banning a film or a book results in a net diminishing of cultural material. Writing a book to argue against one that exists, or making a film to counter another point of view, (even if jejunely) at least results in an incremental addition to the body of cultural material available in society at any given time. After all, Sanjay Kak, the maker of 'Jashn-e-Azadi', did not, as far as I recall, call for bans on documentary films that were considered to give an 'adequate' representation of Kashmiri Pandit experiences - like 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or 'And the world remained silent' . (In fact I do not remember any discussion of whether such films should be banned.) I also do not remember any obstructions by angry slogan shouting young men of films that have given more than adequate representation to the foot-soldiers (formal and informal)of the Indian state, engaged in fighting terror (and non-terrorist civic action) with terror in the Kashmir valley. Nor has anyone, to my knowledge, asked for feature films like 'Roja', 'Dil Se', 'Mission Kashmir'. '16 December', 'Fanaa', 'Sheen', 'Maa tujhey Salaam' (and I could go on, because there is an emerging sub-genre of the 'Kashmir' film in the Bombay film industry) to be banned - all of which are set in Kashmir, more or less all of which are explicitly sympathetic to the Kashmiri Pandit point of view, all of which ensure that 'militants' are portrayed in a purely negative light, and all of which are more than adequate exemplars of Indian nationalism and patriotism. Needless to say, several of these films were critically well received, granted 'entertainment tax exemptions', awarded with state honours and applauded in the media. The chances of your film doing well if you toe the Indian state's line on Kashmir are quite high, so it would be some amount of dissimulation to suggest that films sympathetic to the predicament of Kashmiri Pandits, or generally supportive to the Indian state's claim on the territory of Jammu & Kashmir, are somehow marginal, silenced, censored, obscured expressions. An objective assessment and audit of the kind of films that have been made on Jammu and Kashmir over the last twenty odd years would show evidence quite to the contrary. If the culture we all participate in (as partisans, protagonists, spectators, producers and bystangers) is so willing to accept the presence, circulation and adulation of one point of view, (the Indian nationalist, explicitly pro Kashmiri Pandit position on J&K) which in fact has a dominance, a near monopoly on the representation of the issue of Jammu and Kashmir, at least as far as the moving image in India is concerned, why then, is it so difficult for this cultural milieu to tolerate the presence of one or two or maybe three films that try to do something else? A film is not a bomb. A film is not an unsheathed sword. A film is an argument in words and images. If the dominant argument in words and images have the lion's share of attention, then what is wrong in another kind of argument in words and images making itself known. Or is there an actual anxiety that the case of the dominant argument is so flimsy that the mere presence of one or two films that act otherwise will blow their cover? Remember, the post 1947 history of Jammu and Kashmir is taught neither in India, nor in Pakistan, nor in Kashmir. In such a climate, it is very easy for flimsy arguments to rule the roost. In such a climate it also becomes necessary for those who live by those flimsy arguments to try and stop anything else that happens, by any means necessary. Such as calling the Mumbai Police to stop the screening of a film. I know that similar things happen in Bangladesh or Pakistan when documentary films about the fate of the Ahmediya community are sought to be screened. I remember having been present at more than one screening of a film such as 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or having sat through film after Bollywood film that bedecked itself with the fake blood of fake Kashmiris. I saw no reason to call the police. I saw no reason to raise slogans in or outside the auditorium, or to try and obstruct the possibility of a reasonable discussion. Did anyone on the list try and call the police, genuflect to the censor board, or make a noise, or try and obstruct a screening when any of these films were shown? If those of you on this list who are endorsing obstructions to the screening of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' did not object to the screening of all those films that have entertained us with the agenda of the Indian state, then I think that it is only fair, reasonable and decent that you either let films like "Jashn-e-Azaadi' be screened, without interruption or obstruction or, as a logical corollary to your concern for the sentiments of those affected by the conflict in Kashmir, call for a moratorium on any form of expression, including your own, that takes any stance (or even no stance at all) on the issue of Kashmir. It may be possible that different kinds of people can find different nuances of an impoverished and pared down dignity in the ensuing silence. It will be more respectful than the clamour of your words today. with regards, Shuddha Nishant wrote: > Police stops radical film on Kashmir > > Disrupt screening of Jashn-e-Azadi at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan on suspicion that the documentary may be provocative and inflammatory > > Mumbai police on Friday disrupted the screening a radical film on Kashmir called Jashn-e-Azadi on the suspicion that the feature-length documentary could be "inflammatory and provocative." The 2-hour, 18-minute long documentary, directed by Sanjay Kak, was just about to begin when cops barged into the Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan at Prabhadevi and seized all the dvds. > > "We were told that the documentary is provocative and inflammatory. Therefore we requested the organisers to let us watch the movie before it was screened", Deputy Commissioner of Police, D N Phadtare, told Mumbai Mirror. But getting the cops to play censor was not acceptable to the show's organisers, Vikalp. "We told them in that case it would not be possible to allow them to screen the film and confiscated the DVDs," said Phadtare. > > Ironically, Jashn-e-Azadi, which has already been screened in Bangalore and Delhi, without anybody getting inflamed or provoked, explores the implications of the struggle for Azadi in the Kashmir Valley. As the blog on documentary ( http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com) says: In : In 2007 India celebrates the 60th anniversary of it's Independence, this provocative and quietly disturbing new film raises questions about freedom in Kashmir, and about the degrees of freedom in India. > > When contacted director Sanjay Kak said: "I've been holding a number of private screenings across the country for filmmakers and other interested viewers to start a conversation about the film and get feedback. The Osian film festival in Delhi was the first and only public screening we've had. The screening today was in a private property for a small group of invitees. Vikalp got a call in the morning from the police asking for a copy of the film. When we landed at the venue there was a battalion of cops and they asked us not to screen the film. When we told them to watch it with us they were not willing," said Kak, adding that the cops refused to tell them who had filed the complaint or what the problem was. "All they were willing to say was, 'hamare seniors ka order hai,' and till they had seen the film they could not allow us to go ahead," he said. > > (Source: Mumbai Mirror) > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it > now. > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 23:27:08 2007 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Taxi Project - Meter Down Podcast Message-ID: <13373.39101.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As part of a larger project on Bombay taxi drivers ( kaali-peeli ki kahani), I have been recording conversations with cab drivers, with their permission of course, as we ride from one place to another in the city. I am now podcasting these conversations as episodes in a podcast called Meter Down. The language is Hindi. I consider this project an oral history, a verbal record, that explores the questions of migration and mulak, bombay and change, taxi-driving and life. The cabbies, of course, also tell some wonderful stories. You can listen to these conversations at http://meterdown.wordpress.com, a blog on which I also post photos of the drivers and their taxis. Outtakes of some of the wonderful bits of these conversations are also posted on the site for listener convenience. I am an ex-taxi driver myself and have been working on this Bombay taxi driver project for a year now. Taxi drivers write the city: they move through its streets and collect its stories. They track its changes while journeying with their passengers through its transformations and they experience the absence of the old. Yet they are also the subjects of these changes. Driver-owned old taxis are being forced out of service and their permits cancelled. New private taxi fleets with 'modern' vehicles are vying for these permits but refuse to hire most of the drivers. The drivers' futures are uncertain. A majority of the drivers are migrants, each with his own sense of home. I am interested in this internal migration, the movement of people from the villages to a city that looks away from these villages and outward into a globalising world. what did the taxi drivers leave behind? what dreams did they bring and what dreams remain? where is home now? The project also includes documenting and photographing the personal and creative designs that cab drivers employ to make each taxi a signifier of the self: words on the back windows that act like clues, rexine mudflaps, mirrored ceilings, patterened seat-covers, radium patterning and painted mechanical meters. I print these images to fabric and create textile pieces. I buy old steering wheels and wrap them using plastic flourescent rope, making patterns by putting radium underneath, as I learned to do from an old radiumwala. I use rearview mirrors and photos of drivers' eyes to make 'gaze pieces'. But it is these podcasts that are the ballast. Please give them a listen. I have currently posted two episodes on the blog and plan to post another conversation every 15-20 days. I appreciate feedback, suggestions, critiques, etc. There is a place on the blog for comments or you can email me at this ID. If you have Itunes, you can search for 'Meter Down' and subscribe to the podcast or download episodes from there, esp. if bandwidth is a problem. Meter Down is also listed in some podcast directories such as Podcast Alley, Odeo (tho only 1 episode showing) , podcastingnews, and Google using meter down podcast search terms. regards, kabi http://meterdown.wordpress.com --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. From skinnyghosh at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 00:51:34 2007 From: skinnyghosh at gmail.com (sukanya ghosh) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:51:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In search of animation Message-ID: <46B3803E.2030103@gmail.com> The grand old man of Indian animation, Ram Mohan celebrates 50 years of being in animation this year. He has a sort of parable to tell about animation in India. He tells of how not many know that Dadasaheb Phalke, the father of Indian Cinema was also the first to try animation and hence is also the father of Indian animation. But as animation remained the much neglected Cinderella daughter, the other daughter (the ugly sister) grew by leaps and bounds. It is only after many years that this Cinderella finally got her prince. It is however another story that the prince turned out to be something she didn't quite expect. Ram Mohan is one of those who has lived through most of this history. He claims that despite early attempts by Phalke, Mandar Mallick and others, not much was known about animation and it certainly did not ever become any kind of industry. His career took off under the training programme under Clair Weeks. Why Clair Weeks and to what purpose I ask? Clair H. Weeks of Walt Disney Studios, came to India under the Indo-US Technical Aid program (1951). The fledgling Indian Government was readying up to deliver the first of The Five Year Plans. According to Ram Mohan the government felt the need for widespread communication in matters regarding public health, savings, education and other objectives that were envisaged as necessary for the growth of a healthy economy and country. Animation was felt to be the medium that could easily fulfill this vital role of visual communications. The pictorial nature of the communication could be used to impart knowledge. Here, we might take an aside to understand the 'nature' of the animated image. The vital difference from cinema can be attributed to the dual nature of deconstruction and the re-construction of reality. Being an overtly self conscious medium, the 'constructed' nature of its image is of prime importance. The set of assumptions that the animated image carries with it allow our levels of disbelief to be transcended far more than the cinematic image. For instance the phenomenon of 'anthropomorphism' -- we are happy to believe all manner of talking animals and otherwise inanimate objects. Or the manner in which the unseen becomes 'seen' or imagined. The flexibility of the canvas of animation where virtually (and I use the word in all its various connotations) everything is possible and everything can have a voice. This played a huge role in its selection as a medium of mass appeal and understanding. One that would cut across cultural, regional and language barriers by the sheer audacity of its images. The cartoon, specifically could be used to portray serious issues on a lighter note. This was perhaps the reason that the Army Cartoon Unit chose animation to produce various films which were to carry various kinds of messages to the people. This unit was the predecessor to the Films Divisions Cartoon Film Unit and subsequently most of its members went on to join the Films Division. When Clair Weeks was asked to come to India, the choice of choosing had a lot to do with the fact that Clair Weeks had been born in India and had some knowledge of the Hindi Language. The Films Division had installed its animation rostrum camera -- an Oxberry 16 mm camera -- under the directorship of Jehangir Bhownagary. The film /Radha and Krishna/ was created suing this camera. From here onwards the production of animation films remained pretty much within the territorial scope of the films division. One of the biggest reasons being the role that the films division occupies. The government saw this as the main agency for producing short features to meet the various requirements of the political and social agenda that they were plotting out. Thus -- "The Films Division of India has within its archives, a recorded legacy of our glorious past. With the infra-structure available, it is not merely a store-house of this legacy, but also an active participant in making it." The Hindi film Industry however never adopted animation as anything more than creative film titling. This perhaps played a crucial role in determining the directions that Indian animation took in those early years. World War II had begun the process of disintegration of the big studios. A peculiarity of the shortage of raw stock, among other kinds of rationing led to the beginnings of huge amounts of illegal trading and black money. Film financing now saw a different kind of pattern and the development of an established star system. Animation was not a proposition that seemed to fit this scenario as a suitably profitable medium. A labour and time intensive medium like animation did not really much of a niche in the mainstream of film production. Besides which, there was a simple lack of trained personnel. Ram Mohan reiterates how very few people were trained and how there was no platform where people could train because only the films division had a regular animation agenda. One wonders how and where the seeds of growth and development really lie. Can art flourish in the absence of an infrastructure? If so, then is art then dependent on the infrastructure provided by the kind of support that only a commercially driven industry can provide? Is art taken forward only under the aegis of a certain visionaries and philanthropists? One remembers that the most widely seen/remembered animation in the world is the one created by a maverick megalomaniacal empire builder who saw the potential of his certain skill. And that the other most highly regarded (though less seen and heard of) national film production board was led to its stature through the platform provided by one visionary iconic (and albeit iconoclastic) artist, filmmaker. In between the endless search through the twists and turn that animation in India takes here onwards, we have a huge repository of films on health, family planning, savings, the economy, the girl child, education, history, somewhere we let go of the essential artistic impulse that informs the medium. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 12:24:00 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 23:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Remembering Partition, 4 films & a lecture in Mumbai Message-ID: <960219.70006.qm@web51411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Asia Society India Centre and Jnanapravaha, Mumbai invite you to "Remembering Partition" a Lecture, 4 Documentary Films, and a Panel Discussion Saturday, August 11, 6.00 pm - 9.30 pm Lecture by Ashis Nandy, ICSSR National Fellow, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, New Delhi on Partition and Living with Oneself (45 minutes) followed by the Screening of Sarah Singh's The Sky Below * (75 minutes) Amar Kanwar's A Season Outside (30 minutes), and Sunday, August 12, 4.00 pm - 9.30 pm Screening of Yousuf Saeed's Khayal Darpan (A Mirror of Imagination) (100 minutes) and Ajay Bhardwaj's Rabba Hun Kee Kariye * (Thus Departed Our Neighbours) (65 minutes) followed by a Panel Discussion on Representing History (40 minutes) with Sarah Singh Yousuf Saeed Ajay Bhardwaj and Paromita Vohra, Filmmaker and Scriptwriter (moderator) Venue: Jnanapravaha Queens Mansion, A K Nayak Marg, Fort, Mumbai 400 001 Phone: 91 22 2207 2974/5 * First Public Preview Limited Seating. First Come, First Served. RSVP Avanti Bhati (Asia Society India Centre) 91 22 66100888; admin at asiasociety.org For Profiles of Speaker and filmmakers, and Synopsis of films please visit http://www.asiasociety.org/visit/mumbai/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC From navayana at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 12:31:59 2007 From: navayana at gmail.com (Navayana Publishing) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 12:31:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Job @ Navayana In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For circulation on notice boards use PDF attachment. navayana India's first and only publishing house to focus on caste from an anti-caste perspective invites *affirmative applications* from *dalits* for the post of *Assistant Editor* The job, based in New Delhi, involves copyediting, commissioning titles, liaising with designers, distributors, printers, marketing, and growing with and shaping a radical publishing programme Awareness of anti-caste issues and proficiency in the English language are mandatory. Postgraduates with research experience are encouraged to apply. Last date for applications: 25 August 2007 visit www.navayana.org and mail your CV to navayana at gmail.com M-100, First Floor, Saket, New Delhi – 110017 -- S.Anand Publisher Navayana Address for correspondence Navayana Publishing M-100 (First Floor) Saket, New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91-9971433117 Landline: 011-29561731 Regd address: 54, Ist Floor Savarirayalu Street Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 0413-2223337 Cell: +91-9443033305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/content/bookclub.htm -- Navayana Publishing M-110 (First Floor) Saket New Delhi--110017 Ph: +91 9971433117 Registered address: Navayana Publishing 54, I Floor Savarirayalu Stree Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 91-413-2223337 Mobile: 91-94430-33305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/content/bookclub.htm From pnnhindi at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 21:04:09 2007 From: pnnhindi at gmail.com (pnn hindi) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:04:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] NEWS- WITHER JUDICIAL ACCOUNTABILITY? THE CASE OF JUSTICE SABHARWAL Message-ID: <430983AC-A814-4E75-8F5F-FB32FAA4EE45@gmail.com> Click Here To See The Documents, Concerning The Facts WITHER JUDICIAL ACCOUNTABILITY? THE CASE OF JUSTICE SABHARWAL: DISQUIETING FACTS, DISTURBING IMPLICATIONS Minakshi PNN: 3, Aug. The issue of accountability of the higher judiciary has long been troubling all sections of society so at a press conference held in Press Club of India the former Law minister Shanti Bhushan and sr. advocate Supreme court Prashant Bhushan among others highlighted a grave case of judicial misconduct at the Apex of Indian Judiciary on behalf of campaign for Judicial Accountability and Reforms. Prashant Bhushan exposed that on 16'" February 2006, the then Chief Justice of India, Y.K. Sabharwal passed a detailed order setting into motion the process of sealing of properties in designated residential areas of Delhi, being used for commercial purposes, forcing to buy or rent premises in shopping malls and commercial complexes.. The Court's orders were ostensibly made to implement the rule of law as embodied by the Delhi Master Plan 2001, which had designated the land use of those areas as residential. Despite the new master 2021 the court ordered the sealing to continue, despite the fact that the new master plan permitted the owners to use their premises for commercial purposes. He further added the prices of shops and offices in the shopping malls and commercial complexes doubled and tripled almost overnight making many people question whether the sealing drive was being undertaken for the benefit of the Mall and Commercial complex developers. De facto these orders were being made by Justice Sabharwal, his two sons, Chetan and Nitin who until then had small export import businesses, had entered into partnerships with big Mall and Commercial complex developers Kabul Chawla of the BPTP group and , Purshottam Bagheria and had become big Commercial complex developers themselves. Till 2004, the Sabharwals owned 3 companies ostensibly doing small time export import business, Pawan Impex, Sabs exports and Sug exports. their officially settled at the Sabharwals' family home at 3/81 Punjabi Bagh. In January 2004 they were shifted to Justice Sabharwal's official residence at 6 Moti Lal Nehru Marg and on 7 May 2004, Justice Sabharwal had ordered the sealing of properties where industries had been running in residential areas? but his official residence could hardly be sealed. Just after the order of sealing his sons were well on their way to entering the business of Malls and commercial complexes in a big way, having sewn up partnerships with two of the biggest Commercial estate developers in Delhi business of the Sabharwals really took off thereafter. On 22/8/06, Pawan Impex was given a loan of 28 Crores by the Union Bank of lndia, Connaught Place on the security of imaginary plant, machinery and other assets" lying at plot Nos A 3, 4, &, 5 in Sector 125, Noida, nothing in actual, only a huge 1.T. park (5 lac Sq Ft, worth hundreds of crores. Interestingly, these 3 huge plots of 12,000 Sq. Metres in a prime sector of Noida were allotted to Pawan Impex on 29 Dec 2004 by the Mulayam Singh/Amar Singh government of U.P. at a rate of only Rs. 3,700/sq Metre, another huge commercial plot of 12,000 sq metres (plot 12A, in Sector 68, which appears to have been carved out later as an afterthought) on 10 November 2006, at a price of 4000 Rs/sq metre, 3 plots (C1033, lO4 and 105) of 800 Sq M each in Sector 63 at a rate of Rs. 2, I 00 each, other in Sector 8 Noida, the CBI investigation into the allotments ordered by the Allahabad High Court was immediately stayed by Justice B.P. Singh of the Supreme Court moreover the publication of the infamous Amar Singh tapes, was stayed by Justice Sabharwal himself on the matter being merely mentioned before him. Thus, the Sabharwals in just two years time, got into the business of developing Commercial complexes and appear to be rolling in money during the time when Justice Sabharwal was a senior judge and then Chief Justice, dealing with the sealing cases and passing orders. Former law minister Shanti Bhushan also said that the conduct of Justice Sabharwal and his sons appear to involve offences and misdemeanors beyond the Income Tax Act. His orders are against the principles of natural justice, which say that no judge can hear a case in which he is personally interested. It is in fact arguable that his dealing with this case in such circumstances involves an offence under the Prevention of Corruption Act. He and other senior Judges and advocates demanded the need to be thoroughly probed, particularly to see how and to what extent they funded the activities and acquistion of assets of the Sabharwals. whether their acquisition can be legitimately explained. A call was made to the society to pressurize the Parliament and the government to bring a suitable Constitutional Amendment Bill for this purpose. 011 22756796, 9211530510 PNN , Delhi-91 From smitamitr at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 18:24:45 2007 From: smitamitr at gmail.com (smita mitra) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 05:54:45 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] 6th Posting- Cinematic City-A study of 1950s-60s Bangla Films Message-ID: Dear All, Sorry for missing my posting last month. I have been unwell for sometime and ended up not being able to do much work. To get back to my project, I would like to share some ideas on the 2 stars of the 50s and 60s-Uttam Kumar and Suchitra Sen. Stardom or the study of stars has been a very prolific branch of Film Studies and most students regard Richard Dyer's *Stars* as a bible for the analysis of the phenomenon. His later book *Heavenly Bodies* also discusses the social image construction and circulation of the star figure. There are various other critics whose work on stars can provide interesting insights to decode the 'star text',Molly Haskell's *From Reverence to Rape* or Jackie Stacey's *StarGazing. *I would discuss some ideas about the phenomenon by drawing on some key ideas that Dyer works with. Stars are social phenomenons,they are images that are produced and consumed within a given social and cultural matrix and network of relationships.Theyare of course media images ,created and circulated via various media texts, publicity, advertising. Promos, newspaper reportage, fashion etc.I do not wish to address the ideological implications of the creation of these images and their circulation in the social at this point. I would focus on an important constituent of this construction of the star image -the star biographies. Given the proliferation of these at least in terms of Bollywood stars, I would like an engaged discussion as this is an important constituent of my project as well. Very briefly biographies are generally accepted as narrative about the 'life story' of an exemplary character, makes certain 'truth claims' and give evidence of historical accuracy and can be linear, chronological or remain skeletal and partial narratives. But most importantly biographies evoke or construct the person for its readers, even if they are hagiographic and deify the person , they still provide interesting clues to the contexts of how that persona is being created for its readers and what images are being circulated in the social domain. Biographies are crucial in the field of star studies, not because they give a glimpse of the 'real' person, but they provide tools for decoding the image. Star studies are not about uncovering the real person beneath the image but about analyzing the star-text . One of the crucial questions can be --- how reliable these texts can be? If one reads these texts as a 'trace'(Kopitoff'snotion of evidence and clues), a discourse that provides a partial access to the image, the context within which that image is being constructed and how the advocacy of the subject is being undertaken, then these can become important components of the star text. A close textual reading between the lines of even the mundane, formulaic, part rumor, part gossip, part historically verifiable facts can be an important tool to engage with the contemporary reconstruction of a segment of the star figure. I would briefly engage with 2 biographies of Uttam and Suchitra--- *Amar Ami* Uttam Kumar's authorized autobiography co written byGourangoPrasad Ghosh,Dey's Publishing,Kolkata1980. *Suchitrar Katha* by Gopal Krishna Ray,Anando publishers, Kolkata,1992. Incidentally G.K Ray is the author of three books on Suchitra and a fourth one is being published this month. Amar Ami( translates as Me Myself) is a straightforward linear narrative, narrated in the first person in Uttam's own voice, beginning with his birth, his childhood, his family, ,abiding love for acting, his theatre experience , his struggle as an actor and his stardom, interspersed with the glimpses into his personal life-his first marriage to Gauri Devi, his much publicized live in relationship with Supriya Chaudhari(Neeta in Ghatak's Meghe Dhaka Tara, and Uttam's heroine in many of his successful films). What emerges out of this text is the image of a middle class person tremendously invested in the values of hard work ,perseverance ,diligence, gritty and determined who gets into the industry and works his way up through the ladder to reach the top, but who never takes his success for granted, who is ever ready to work hard and continuously learning. A large part of the narrative is devoted to descriptions of his endeavors to learn dancing, horseriding,Hindi Urdu lessons to improve his diction for his stints in Bombay,his tennis lessons etc.The book also reiterates his sense of commitment to better the working conditions of the junior artistes and his life long struggle to improve the status of the industry. There are long passages describing his meetings with the various ministers and his charity fund raises for various causes. The text makes constant references to Uttam being the 'dada' (the elder brother figure) of the industry who tirelessly strove to work for the betterment of Bangla cinema. There are vignettes of Uttam the devoted family man, who still is a good father figure to his wife's children in spite of having a live in relationship with Supriya. The iconic figure that this text provides us with is interesting not because it continuously peppers the narrative with actual dates and statistics but because it manages to add to the 'aura' of Uttam the star—the immensely successful romantic star, but a tragic and lonely angst ridden individual grappling with the pressures and baggage of being the 'dada' of the industry. *Suchitrar Katha *,written by G.K Ray does not claim to be the authorized version, mainly because Suchitra has refused to give interviews after her retirement and is often compared to Greta Garbo the other famous Hollywood recluse. There have been rumors and speculation about Suchitra post retirement in the late seventies, she starred in her last film in 1978, but she has steadfastedly refused to corroborate or refute any of those. This text adopts a very intimate tone of voice as the author claims to be a friend of the star who had access to her home as a family friend and with whom Suchitra shared many hours of conversation after she retired from the industry, but of course the relationship dates back to her days as a star. Ray claims he decided to write the book for the Suchitra fans who were keen to know how the star spends her days after her retirement , what made her Suchitra from Roma(Suchitra is her screen name) , her unparralled rise as a star, her relationship with her daughter Moon moon Seen etc.The narrative creates the persona of the exotic, moody, at times unpredictable, mysterious woman, extremely childish at times, nice ,caring loyal friend, companion, who never engages with the salacious rumors and gossip, who sublimates her anger and rage into her devotion to her God, and spends her time in her puja and in being a doting grandmother to her daughter's children Rima and Raima.The narrative signposts various dates and figures about her life and career, but is invested in creating the image of this recluse and retiring woman who has left her stardom behind her , who is more content being a mother and doting grandmother, who reluctantly became a star but who essentially is a midlle class woman looking for personal fulfillment , who faced personal trauma of a broken marriage ,who juggled the demands of a demanding career and motherhood single-handedly. Unlike Uttam's narrative this text remains partial and sketchy as Ray does not follow a linear or chronological structure , he writes it as a personal memoir of his interaction and conversations with the Suchitra.Details of her films, her hits and successful romantic onscreen pairing appear as incidental asides, almost as if she would rather forget that she was the most successful female star of the Bangla Film industry.Appearing almost a decade after Suchitra retired from the industry, this text manages to recreate her star persona for the contemporary public domain in a different register from the other star biography that I mentioned, which was written when Uttam was still alive except the last chapter which was completed after his death in 1982. I am presently reading some other biographies of the two stars and will keep you posted. It would be an interesting exercise for me to read these texts along with the star image in some of the films that I have on my list to formulate some ideas about the middle class urban experience that I hope to map through the popular city films of the 50s and 60s. Regards Smita Banerjee From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 5 20:06:29 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:06:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi] Message-ID: <46B5E06D.4000705@sarai.net> Dear All, I have been following with interest the thread that began a few days ago on the Reader Listregarding the interrupted (or should I say prevented) screening of Sanjay Kak's documentary film 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in Mumbai, courtesy the Mumbai Police. It appears from the actions of the Mumbai Police that that the citizens of Mumbai are more in need of protection from various kinds of stimuli than those of us who have happily sat through more than one screening of the said film in Delhi, and in Srinagar without any harm being done to our minds or bodies. I am not writing to defend the film here, because I think a film, or any work of art does not need a 'defence'. A film, or a work of art, or any instance of communication is not an accused in a criminal court, we are not attorneys, advocates and lawyers, a mailing list is not a court. I am more interested in trying to think through some of the issues that have been addressed in various postings. Those who have called for a ban on the film, or have endorsed the Mumabai Police's actions, or have written angry mails protesting about its screening basically have the following arguments, and I will list them all. Do correct me if I miss any. 1. The film is one sided, it does not (adquately) represent the point of views of displaced Kashmiri Pandits. 2. The film gives space to people that some of the correspondents on this list consider to be 'terrorists'. 3. The film is not patriotic or nationalistic. I do not disagree with any of the above points. (though I have a qualified disagreement on point 3, to which I will come later). But even if all three points are agreed to, I still see no reason why the automatic response to them has to be a call for a ban. Or for a vilification of the filmmaker. Since it appears (or at least that is what I have been given to understand) that we live in a nominally free and open cultural space, there should be no problem at all for anyone to make films that they think best represents the position that they hold. Either we agree that this is the case, or we agree that your 'freedom of expression' has to stay within the narrow limits of what is permissible under the world view of Indian nationalism. In which event it does not remain freedom of expression any longer, rather it (the capacity to be expressive) turns automatically into a monopoly that only Indian nationalists can enjoy. In any case, nothing stops, or has stopped till now, anyone from making any film that - a). adequately represents the points of view and experiences of the Kashmiri Pandit community b) gives adequate space and consideration to those gentlemen in and out of uniform who unleash terror on the majority of the population of the Kashmir valley c) that oozes patriotism or nationalism from every frame (On this point I have a slight qualification to make, it seems to me, that there would be some, though not by any means all, perhaps mainly Kashmiri nationalists and patriots, who would not be disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azadi'. So it is inaccurate to say that the film has to be rejected if you are a nationalist or a patriot. It all depends on which kind of patriot or nationalist you are.) Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmiri nationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety of nationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. I have tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria by which sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can be judged against sentiments that attach to another configuration of territory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves to any bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you would deny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that they lay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do not have an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have a satisfactory answer? Does anyone even know if a satisfactory answer lies within the realm of a theorectial or a practical possibility. But this is a debate that we can continue on some other occasion, at least for now, let us return to the film that is exercising everyone so. So, those who are so disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azaadi', might think about how they can make their own film instead of trying to ensure that one that exists is canned. Similarly, those people in Kashmir, Iran, the UK, Indonesia, India, Egypt and Syria who stage spectacles calling for the assasination of Salman Rushdie, or Taslima Nasrin, or the authors of a batch of cartoons drawn in bad taste, might consider writing their own books, or drawing their own cartoons. Killing an author or banning a film or a book results in a net diminishing of cultural material. Writing a book to argue against one that exists, or making a film to counter another point of view, (even if jejunely) at least results in an incremental addition to the body of cultural material available in society at any given time. After all, Sanjay Kak, the maker of 'Jashn-e-Azadi', did not, as far as I recall, call for bans on documentary films that were considered to give an 'adequate' representation of Kashmiri Pandit experiences - like 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or 'And the world remained silent' . (In fact I do not remember any discussion of whether such films should be banned.) I also do not remember any obstructions by angry slogan shouting young men of films that have given more than adequate representation to the foot-soldiers (formal and informal)of the Indian state, engaged in fighting terror (and non-terrorist civic action) with terror in the Kashmir valley. Nor has anyone, to my knowledge, asked for feature films like 'Roja', 'Dil Se', 'Mission Kashmir'. '16 December', 'Fanaa', 'Sheen', 'Maa tujhey Salaam' (and I could go on, because there is an emerging sub-genre of the 'Kashmir' film in the Bombay film industry) to be banned - all of which are set in Kashmir, more or less all of which are explicitly sympathetic to the Kashmiri Pandit point of view, all of which ensure that 'militants' are portrayed in a purely negative light, and all of which are more than adequate exemplars of Indian nationalism and patriotism. Needless to say, several of these films were critically well received, granted 'entertainment tax exemptions', awarded with state honours and applauded in the media. The chances of your film doing well if you toe the Indian state's line on Kashmir are quite high, so it would be some amount of dissimulation to suggest that films sympathetic to the predicament of Kashmiri Pandits, or generally supportive to the Indian state's claim on the territory of Jammu & Kashmir, are somehow marginal, silenced, censored, obscured expressions. An objective assessment and audit of the kind of films that have been made on Jammu and Kashmir over the last twenty odd years would show evidence quite to the contrary. If the culture we all participate in (as partisans, protagonists, spectators, producers and bystangers) is so willing to accept the presence, circulation and adulation of one point of view, (the Indian nationalist, explicitly pro Kashmiri Pandit position on J&K) which in fact has a dominance, a near monopoly on the representation of the issue of Jammu and Kashmir, at least as far as the moving image in India is concerned, why then, is it so difficult for this cultural milieu to tolerate the presence of one or two or maybe three films that try to do something else? A film is not a bomb. A film is not an unsheathed sword. A film is an argument in words and images. If the dominant argument in words and images have the lion's share of attention, then what is wrong in another kind of argument in words and images making itself known. Or is there an actual anxiety that the case of the dominant argument is so flimsy that the mere presence of one or two films that act otherwise will blow their cover? Remember, the post 1947 history of Jammu and Kashmir is taught neither in India, nor in Pakistan, nor in Kashmir. In such a climate, it is very easy for flimsy arguments to rule the roost. In such a climate it also becomes necessary for those who live by those flimsy arguments to try and stop anything else that happens, by any means necessary. Such as calling the Mumbai Police to stop the screening of a film. I know that similar things happen in Bangladesh or Pakistan when documentary films about the fate of the Ahmediya community are sought to be screened. I remember having been present at more than one screening of a film such as 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or having sat through film after Bollywood film that bedecked itself with the fake blood of fake Kashmiris. I saw no reason to call the police. I saw no reason to raise slogans in or outside the auditorium, or to try and obstruct the possibility of a reasonable discussion. Did anyone on the list try and call the police, genuflect to the censor board, or make a noise, or try and obstruct a screening when any of these films were shown? If those of you on this list who are endorsing obstructions to the screening of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' did not object to the screening of all those films that have entertained us with the agenda of the Indian state, then I think that it is only fair, reasonable and decent that you either let films like "Jashn-e-Azaadi' be screened, without interruption or obstruction or, as a logical corollary to your concern for the sentiments of those affected by the conflict in Kashmir, call for a moratorium on any form of expression, including your own, that takes any stance (or even no stance at all) on the issue of Kashmir. It may be possible that different kinds of people can find different nuances of an impoverished and pared down dignity in the ensuing silence. It will be more respectful than the clamour of your words today. with regards, Shuddha Nishant wrote: > Police stops radical film on Kashmir > > Disrupt screening of Jashn-e-Azadi at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan on suspicion that the documentary may be provocative and inflammatory > > Mumbai police on Friday disrupted the screening a radical film on Kashmir called Jashn-e-Azadi on the suspicion that the feature-length documentary could be "inflammatory and provocative." The 2-hour, 18-minute long documentary, directed by Sanjay Kak, was just about to begin when cops barged into the Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan at Prabhadevi and seized all the dvds. > > "We were told that the documentary is provocative and inflammatory. Therefore we requested the organisers to let us watch the movie before it was screened", Deputy Commissioner of Police, D N Phadtare, told Mumbai Mirror. But getting the cops to play censor was not acceptable to the show's organisers, Vikalp. "We told them in that case it would not be possible to allow them to screen the film and confiscated the DVDs," said Phadtare. > > Ironically, Jashn-e-Azadi, which has already been screened in Bangalore and Delhi, without anybody getting inflamed or provoked, explores the implications of the struggle for Azadi in the Kashmir Valley. As the blog on documentary ( http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com) says: In : In 2007 India celebrates the 60th anniversary of it's Independence, this provocative and quietly disturbing new film raises questions about freedom in Kashmir, and about the degrees of freedom in India. > > When contacted director Sanjay Kak said: "I've been holding a number of private screenings across the country for filmmakers and other interested viewers to start a conversation about the film and get feedback. The Osian film festival in Delhi was the first and only public screening we've had. The screening today was in a private property for a small group of invitees. Vikalp got a call in the morning from the police asking for a copy of the film. When we landed at the venue there was a battalion of cops and they asked us not to screen the film. When we told them to watch it with us they were not willing," said Kak, adding that the cops refused to tell them who had filed the complaint or what the problem was. "All they were willing to say was, 'hamare seniors ka order hai,' and till they had seen the film they could not allow us to go ahead," he said. > > (Source: Mumbai Mirror) > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it > now. > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 21:24:25 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:54:25 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] good or bad ? Message-ID: <5af37bb0708050854g2ab20b70u772011d858ad4e33@mail.gmail.com> difficult to say definitely if these are good or bad news ? Outcry as British Council quits Europe to woo Muslim world http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2141835,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12 Afghan victory 'could take 38 years' http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2141901,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12 From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 10:22:43 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:22:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lost World,Forgotten People Message-ID: <13df7c120708052152t41bae58ay53880254da85c0bf@mail.gmail.com> According to Human Rights Watch, over 300,000 Kashmiri Hindus - 90 per cent of the Hindu population of theKashmir Valley - remain displaced. In fact, they comprise India's largest displaced population. Ofthem, about 4,880 families, each with an average offour members, are living in camps in and around Jammu(the summer capital of the state of Jammu and Kashmir). And predictably, almost 60 per cent of the displaced are women. read the complete article here http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Regards Rashneek Kher -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 15:40:50 2007 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood farooqui) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:40:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Papa ajoba Message-ID: Dear Anuja, I have hugely enjoyed your blog on Papa Ajuba. The pictures too are lovely and highly evocative, can't imagine camera assistants wearing ties in today's times, anywhere. We have such few film histories anyway that memoirs like these becomely doubly useful, apart from charting the personal journey of your grandfather, they stand for filling in missing links for the way films were actually made as well as the material culture of their making. The details on the make up material and how it was prepared was wonderful, as was the encounter with Shammi Kapur, at a theatre festival at a college, no less! I want to ask your grandfather a few questions-did he have a criterion for judging the quality of a film other than its success in the market? Were there directors known for doing good, clean work? What sense did they have of international cinema? How and when did the star system come into vogue? Since he was familiar with pre-47 style of filmmaking, did he notice a sharp break or a break of any sort once the studio system broke down and newer producers came into the picture? I am particularly keen on unearthing the arrival and origin of the star system in the 50s... Many thanks for the work... From santanaissar at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 16:49:57 2007 From: santanaissar at gmail.com (Santana Issar) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:49:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sarai Posting - Rethinking Animal Activism in the Urban Context Message-ID: Hello everyone. This is our third posting, on our visit to one of the foremost AWOs in Delhi, Jeevashram. Just off National Highway 8, Jeevashram can be accessed from two directions- one takes you through a tree-lined avenue reminiscent of a posh country resort and flanked by plush, high walled farmhouses, the other through the narrow, dusty but clean lanes of village Rajokri – through shops, *chai *stalls and painted brick houses. Their walls often function as signboards – what appears to be a cul-de-sac has "Jeevashram" scrawled in black paint over arrows pointing into a barely visible lane. Jeevashram itself is located just outside the maze of the market, in a quieter, greener spot. We drive past a heap of garbage, and a big depression – a *khai* – that clearly functioned as a sort of local *ghaat* once upon a time. The flight of steps going down to the dry and grassy bottom is still intact. A large white building with board that reads "Holistic Health Centre" stands about 20 meters away. Jeevashram was founded in 1990 by Lekha Poddar who provided the infrastructure and requisite finances. It is our favourite animal welfare organisation by far – clean, green, peaceful and spacious. We wander all over while waiting for Chief Veterinary Officer-in-Charge, Dr. Vinod Sharma to return from making a call. It is just after lunchtime and the strains of old Hindi film music emanating from electronic bullhorns strung up on trees and posts can be heard all over the 2 acre compound, mingling with the yelps of dogs bounding up to greet us. The effect is quite surreal – after a couple of ineffective tries, 'an Osho ashram with a few hundred tranquil animals thrown in' is as close to describing the atmosphere as we could get. It is the dogs who have the best deal at Jeevashram. The friendlier ones have free run of the place – led by Sher Khan, the shaggy-in-patches, 3-legged mascot of Jeevashram's ambulance service. The rest are housed in a large shady compound ringed by clean kennels for the sick, visiting or grumpy. The cats have a rawer deal than the dogs – housed in a cattery, the felines do not get the free run of the place that their canine counterparts do. The "big animal shelter" houses sundry cows, donkeys, horses, mules and a few randy goats. The small aviary accommodates rabbits besides a belligerent looking cock, a peacock with but half his tail feathers and a peahen. The 'Garden of Eternal Peace' is the quaint pet cemetery that lies behind the kennel, with gold letters on marble plaques proclaiming the loss of dearly departeds (some of the canines are addressed as "Mr" or "Ms") mourned by their grieving "families". But what may seem as a waste of space is probably an important revenue generator for a cash-strapped animal welfare organisation. A stall adjoins the spotlessly clean clinic where larger animals may be tethered for milking, routine check-ups and the like. In the 17 years since its establishment, the infrastructure at Jeevashram has vastly improved. It has a well-equipped operation theatre, gas anaesthesia and ultrasound facilities, an X-ray room, dental surgery facilities, a small laboratory, and even a mobile dispensary received as a donation. There is also a pet shop which offers pet food as well as the standard dog-owner delights – toys, collars, leashes, dog chews, cushions, baskets… Jeevashram's Jack-of-all-trades and Man-for-all-seasons, Dr. Sharma joined the organisation in 1994 as the first resident vet of the animal care shelter as the only doctor on the rolls. As veterinary surgeon he provides medical care to injured and afflicted animals, but he also oversees the administration and day-to-day functioning of the institution. Today, he is assisted by two sharp junior veterinary surgeons and 15 support staff. The latter help in hospital work, pick-up of animals, upkeep of the environment, and other assorted activities. We had a free-wheeling conversation with Dr.S. about our subject, which provided several leads, insights and a general take on the subject on ground. What follows are some excerpts and observations. ANIMALS IN THE CITY: *"The street is no place for animals – all animals should be well-cared for in homes"…* Dr. S appears to be firmly rooted in the welfarist tradition. Responsible pet ownership and care of livestock are the two main props of his vision. Neutering of household pets and spaying of stray animals, adoption of stray animals, medical treatment and care are important elements in the process. According to Dr. S., city streets are not the place for animals to be, and neither are zoos, where wild animals are displaced from forests and relocated in an artificial and highly inadequate environment. He respects the efforts of the 'animal *rights*" camp and appreciates the work they do, but does not wish to comment on their views and strategies. WHAT AILS ANIMAL WELFARE? *"The problem with animal welfare in **India** is that it's all heart and no professionalism"…* Although he appreciates the spirit in which they function, Dr. S. does not consider a single animal welfare organisation in Delhi to be well-managed and professional. Animal welfare cannot be undertaken solely out of love and compassion for animals. AWO's need time, space and money to serve their purpose. In addition to adequate infrastructure, they need qualified vets and well-trained para-staff. Decent colleges and courses for animal welfare are needed in order to produce well-trained professionals. In addition, awareness programmes must be undertaken to sensitise the general populace to the relevance of animal welfare. This must be taken very seriously and conducted on an extensive scale, beginning in the schools. RECONCILING ANIMAL WELFARE TO THE ANIMAL INDUSTRY: *"One must make a link between animal welfare and good economics" * It appears that Dr. Sharma's refusal to get into a "rights versus welfare" tussle arises in part from an acute awareness of the reality of the animal products industry, and the fact that it forms an integral part of the economy. In this context, Dr. S. argues that 'care' and 'kindness' in the animal industry make good *economic *sense after all. In his opinion, it is crucial to make this link in order to convince policy makers, bureaucrats and the people of the relevance of animal welfare – adherence to principles of animal welfare will help save money and increase productivity. For instance, slaughter of animals for meat and the processing of meat *at the same place* can do away with transporting animals over long distances in packed carriages. This precludes unnecessary animal suffering as well as the cost of transport, and may give impetus to job creation in the newly created processing industry ANIMAL WELFARE AND THE STATE MACHINERY *"They refer to us dismissively as *kutte-billi vale*" …* Politicians and bureaucrats are primarily concerned with production for the human population. Most of the government departments having anything to do with animals are concerned with animal husbandry. The following government bodies have some bearing – direct and indirect – on our work. Animal Husbandry Department, Ministry of Agriculture Animal Welfare Board of India Ministry of Forests and Environment Ministry of Social Justice Municipal Corporation of Delhi There is an urgent need to update animal laws in India – a penalty of Rs. 25/- makes absolutely no sense today! (*This is just a preliminary introduction to the State's role in animal welfare. More research is required on our part and one of our posts will be dedicated to this aspect. We came out armed with 'Animal Laws of **India**' by Maneka Gandhi, Ozair Husain and Raj Panjwani which we are in the process of reading. - S.I. and A.S.)* GETTING DOWN TO SPECIFICS *"Some people call Jeevashram a five star hotel for dogs"…* Rajokri village has a radius of about 1 km and about 4500 inhabitants. The real estate boom has had a profound impact on the village, and consequently the quality of life of its animals has definitely taken a turn for the worse. Dr. S. elucidates on this trend: big players coming in and buying up land from the villagers at high rates has led to a drastic dwindling in common pasture lands, backyards, space for cattle-sheds etc. Pools have been filled up and the animals have been quite literally pushed into a hole. Open spaces for grazing and exercise, and pools for bathing (an important requirement for the good health of livestock) have disappeared. Birds used to de-louse cattle – that isn't possible anymore since the pressure for space means livestock doesn't have room to lie about in the open where birds have access to them. The animals are under-exercised and infested with parasites. Since owners have more money today, more visits to the vet, chemical treatments and artificial boosting of productivity have become the trend. Though development and urbanization have made given rise to unhealthy living environments for livestock, their owners have more money to provide and sustain them. According to Dr. S., the *khai* just outside the Jeevashram compound used to fill up with water every monsoon, but the last time that happened was in 2000. It was a common swimming pool for both people and animals, and migratory birds would arrive in hordes, as would snakes. Now the pool has disappeared along with the teeming wildlife that it supported. The new sewage system diverts the water so that it all collects at the foot of the traffic signal on the highway. Just a bit of care and foresight in urban planning can go a long way, feels Dr. S. However, despite the perception of Jeevashram as a five star hotel for animals, it has gained the villagers' confidence and respect by the work that it does. Dr. S. is on the board of 2 schools in the area. Volunteers from the village often offer their services at the organisation. The 'holistic health centre' is a hospice for people living with AIDS. Dr. S. encourages attempts to use the animals in the caring for residents at the hospice. From arvind.access at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 02:21:03 2007 From: arvind.access at gmail.com (Arvind Kumar) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 02:21:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Second Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Message-ID: <364872690708041351j6e6a74e3s545e0256a1c752bf@mail.gmail.com> Second Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Dalit Panther Manifesto – Some Glimpses and Observations (Bombay 1973) Who is a Dalit? Members of scheduled castes and tribes, neo-Buddhists, the working people , the landless and poor peasants, woman and all those who are being exploited politically, economically and in the name of religion. Who are our friends? 1) Revolutionary parties set to break down the caste system and class rule. Left parties that are left in the true sense. 2) All other sections of society that are suffering due to economic and political oppression. Who are our enemies? 1) Power, wealth, price. 2) Landlords, capitalists, moneylenders and their lackeys 3) Those parties who indulge in religious or casteist politics and the government which depends upon them. Burning Questions Before Dalits Today 1) Food, clothing and shelter 2) Employment, land and untouchability 3) Social and physical injustice Our Programmes 1) The question of landlessness of the Dalit peasants must be resolved 2) The oppression, exploitation and endemic atrocities on Dalits by landlords and rich peasants must be destroyed 3) The wages of landless labourers must be increased 4) Dalits must be allowed to draw water from public wells 5) Dalits must live, not outside the village in a separate ghetto but in the village itself 6) All means of production must belong to the Dalits 7) Exploitation by the private capital must cease 8) Social, cultural and economic exploitation must be removed and socialism must be built in India 9) All Dalits must be assured of daily wages 10) Unemployed Dalits must be given unemployment benefits 11) All Dalits must be given free education, medical facilities, housing and good quality cheap grains 12) When giving employment in educational institutions, the requirements to declare one's caste and religion must immediately be removed 13) The government must stop giving grant to religious institutions immediately and the wealth of the religious places must be used for the benefit of Dalits 14) Religious and casteist literature must be banned 15) The division in the army along caste lines must be ended 16) Black marketers, hoarders, money lenders and all those exploiting the people economically must be destroyed 17) The prices of essential commodities must be refunded From arvind.access at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 02:26:14 2007 From: arvind.access at gmail.com (Arvind Kumar) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 02:26:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Third Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Message-ID: <364872690708041356q6c763d1ew42ca2b11873464c8@mail.gmail.com> Third Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Kala Swatantradin by Raja Dhale (Published in 1972) It was 15th August 1972, the twenty-fifth anniversary of Indian Independence and coincidentally the founding year of the Dalit Panther Party. In the backdrop of the atrocities on Dalits all over the country in general and Maharashtra in particular, Raja Dhale, one of the founding members of Dalit Panther Party wrote an article titled 'Kala Swatantradin' (literally meaning Black Independence Day) in Sadhna – A Marathi daily. This article highlighted the deliberate stripping and raping of Dalit woman by upper caste Hindus. Raja Dhale's central theme of the argument in his article was, that the dignity of a woman is superior than dignity of a nation – particularly than a nation where woman is not safe. This piece of writing brought Dalit Panther Party as a first page news constituent which not only attracted the attention of mainstream media, intellectuals, academicians in Maharashtra but throughout the nation. I have a copy of the original article by Raja Dhale. This piece is in Marathi language and I've got the transcript in English ready for it. This would form a part of my final paper and presentation for SARAI and I hope that the original Marathi text in the form of Dhale's archtype article would enrich the SARAI Archives. From arvind.access at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 02:30:51 2007 From: arvind.access at gmail.com (Arvind Kumar) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 02:30:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fourth Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Message-ID: <364872690708041400x4247345ftf1705b75ce9049ea@mail.gmail.com> Fourth Posting - Caste Violence in Urban Maharashtra: A Study of Worli Riots of Mumbai 1974 - A Breaking Point in Dalit Panthers Movement Interview with L.D. Bhonsle (Dalit Panther, Pune Chapter) In the first phase of my fieldwork in Pune I conducted a set of structured interviews. Here I present excerpts of the interview with L.D. Bhonsle, one of the founders of Dalit Panthers, Pune Chapter. I met this 58 year old activist at the main gate of Ferguson College, Pune on a humid sunny afternoon while he was agitating in favour of wage hike for the employees of the college. Although I had already fixed an appointment with him, he gave me a cold reception when he came to know that I was pursuing a PhD in JNU and was taking a field trip enquiring about the Worli riots in Bombay. To my surprise he was more forthcoming for the interview and straightaway asked me; "Why do you want me to tell about any such incident and in any case what purpose would it serve except for you being awarded a PhD degree". Taken aback by his words I took a while to gather myself and continued with the interview to which the man was very cordial. I had no grievance left in me once I visited the residence of Bhonsle right after the interview, which was situated among a very moderate urban slum, located right behind the well known elite Ferguson College. The following are the excerpts from the interview. Q. What led to the coming of Dalit Panthers? A. Between 1970-72, there were gross atrocities on Dalits which were covered by major dailies on Maharashtra. Since 1957 General Elections, Republican Party of India which was sole representative of dalit voice in this country was in alliance with the Congress. There were three factions in RPI, one led by B.C. Kamble, other by Raja Kamble and yet another by Wada Saheb Gaikwad. But, RPI in totality failed in advancing the grievances of Dalits. This was the time when the Dalit Panthers came as a force to reckon with. Q. It is understood that Black Panthers inspired the Dalit Panthers. Do you agree? A. Well, the name has certainly got commonality but Dalit Panthers philosophy/ideology was only Ambedkar and Ambedkarism. The agenda was liberation of Dalits. Q. How do you see Worli Riots? A. Worli riots took place in the wake of Central Mumbai parliamentary by-election of 1974. CPI demanded support from the Dalit Panthers. Girni Kamgar Mazdoor Union called for a strike which was supported by the CPI and the CPI(M). Dalit Panthers also participated. Namdeo Dhasal addressed the crowd and said "You are not the original communist. I am a real communist because I am poor and I still stay in a ghetto". The Times of India reported this on the very first page. S.A. Dange's daughter Rosa Dange was candidate of CPI. Some one lakh voters of Dalit Panthers boycotted the election and she won. Y.B. Chavhan, the then Congress CM of Maharashtra, with help of Shiv Sena and police took action against Dalit Panther activists. Q. Do you see any similarity between Blacks and Dalits? A. Black were considered human but slaves. Dalits were 'untouchables' hence not a human. Worli to begin with. Q. What were the achievements of Dalit Panthers? A. · It gave grip to the Ambedkarite Movement · Cultural Movement grew up. · Movement not only produced activists but also leaders, which inspired the young leaders. Q. What were the failures? A. Personally, I do not feel such movement can ever fail Yet, I see some failures in retrospect. · Lot of Dalit youth left formal education. · Such youngsters did not get government jobs and this discrimination is still continuing in the Indian society. Q. How do you the future of such a movement? A. New generation wants to do less labour and extract more profit. Thus, revolutionary movement is defeated. Individualism has increased. Sacrifice is difficult and hence revolutionary valour is declining. The final words of Bhonsle were, "I am old and I have already sacrificed everything. I do not aspire for big things in life, therefore, I'll remain an activist till I am alive". From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 22:19:52 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:49:52 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Cloud of Silence in Bangla Town Message-ID: Migration has moved dramatically to the top tier of Bangla politics. The money being sent home by Bangla migrants is now a staggering EIGHT TIMES higher than investment by foreign companies, and FOUR TIMES higher than foreign aid. Amer Ahmed summarizes: "From a few thousand in the 1970s, the number of Bangladeshi migrants has exploded to a gross figure of more than three million by 2002, with about $23.7 billion being sent back in remittances over that period (Kibria, 2004). As of 2006, expatriate workers' remittance flows were FOUR TIMES GREATER than Official Development Assistance (ODA) and eight times more than Foreign Direct Investment (FDI)." This month's FORUM magazine has a special issue on migration. Some excerpts: ########################## Epaar Opaar (West Bengal & Bangladesh) - Udayan Chattopadhyay http://thedailystar.net/forum/2007/august/epaar.htm Cloud of Silence in Bangla Town - Naeem Mohaiemen http://thedailystar.net/forum/2007/august/bangla.htm The Third Pillar - S. Amer Ahmed http://thedailystar.net/forum/2007/august/third.htm Full magazine contents: http://thedailystar.net/forum/index.htm ########################## Cloud of Silence in Bangla Town - Naeem Mohaiemen Bombay. Mumbai. Contested name, conflicted ethnography. Some friends (Indian leftists) still hold on to the old name, a solitary act of defiance against soft Hindutva. Bombay. "Maximum city" that leaves me craving, by comparison, the "cleaner" air of Dhaka. It was towards the end of the BJP's horrific tenure (their shock defeat still a pipe dream for Indian progressives), and I was visiting a friend who was in Bombay writing his novel. After days of bemoaning the specter of militant Shiv Sena workers, I decided go exploring the town. Bombay's Bangla Town was on my radar. I had been hearing about floating Bengali populations. Some called them Bangali, some said Bangladeshi. Invisible, unwanted, and yet essential to the city's smooth functioning. Same as migrants anywhere. At Raey railway station, I started asking for Bangali-para. A few shop inquiries, and I was sent down a road with hundreds of shanty shacks. The men were all away at work -- women and the jobless sprawled on roadside mats. Also visible were barber shops, where work kept them near home. Tomato, begun, cauliflower, chilis and deformed miniature potatoes in symmetric rows on a blue sheet. A stack of fish fry on a plate: glistening with oil. It looked like it was being prepared for a restaurant, but the lady firmly and sternly informed me she was cooking it for mahalla people. In one corner, a floppy yellow object was being dipped repeatedly into boiling water, it looked like fish but it was chicken skin. On another sheet, a stack of dried, smelly, shutki fish. Fish everywhere, the trail was getting warmer. In between cooking areas, girls crouched on the ground, washing themselves with minimal soap and even more minimal disrobing. On more blue sheets, a man was rubbing his head affectionately on a baby's stomach. A crazy jumble of shacks. One-two-three-four, all on top of each other. When I first approach people, the conversation that breaks off is in Bangla. But when I ask questions, the replies are always in Hindi. No one admits to being Bangali. Dr Choudhary is a Bangali name, the only doctor in the area. But his tiny shop is closed. There are only a few other shops where I can try my search. Trail growing cold again. I step into the last barbershop on the row. The man sitting in the crouched chair has a thinly shaved pencil moustache and black kohl around his eyes. "Are you Bangali?" He answers with a distinct Kolkata accent. First question everyone always asks, "Apni kotha theke eshechen?" "I've come from Bangladesh." Quick as a flash, he asks, "Mmm, passport korthe chacchen bujhi?" "Bujhlam na," oh, and a beat later, I realize he's asking if I need to get an Indian passport... "No, no, I'm visiting, I don't want to stay here." His companion speaks up, "I'm from Assam, where are you from?" "Dhaka." They both nod their heads. It seems to have meant something. "But my mother's from Sylhet." Now the second man perks up: "Oh so you're from my neighboring state." "Well, we used to be the same state," I joke, trying to relax the air. The owner shows up. He has a bushy beard. His Bengali is accented. He says he's from Haora. He starts talking animatedly about Bangladesh. "Yes I go to the Shahjalal mazaar in Sylhet all the time, and also the one in Chittagong." "You mean the one where you feed turtles bananas?" "Na bhai, that's Chittagong, in Sylhet you feed them pao fish." "How do you get there?" "Oh I just get a pass and go back and forth. It's no problem, really easy to get through Benapole. Are you taking the bus too?" "No, I'm flying." "Oh, apne tho thahole different category. That's not for us. You put yourself in that seat and...nothing to worry about." After a few more minutes of conversation, they give me directions. I need to get to Wadala, where there's another big Bangali colony. Okhane onek onek Bangali paben! But does Bangali mean from West Bengal, or Bangladesh? Or is there no difference in the middle of basti community solidarity...that part I haven't been able to figure out from these conversations At Wadala, the environment is very different. The signs here are much more open. A huge slum sprawls on the other side of the train tracks, taking up a few street blocks. Everyone here knows where the Bangali-para is, no puzzled looks. There are blocks of Urdu signs, but every person I ask says, further, just a little further. But as soon as I cross the tracks (stopping to take one furtive photo), walk around the piles of garbage, and step into the area itself, there's a very different reaction. Although shops carry address boards that say "161 Bangali Para", when I speak to people, no one will admit to being Bengali. Every person says "go over there," sending me somewhere else. I start walking into narrower corridors. There are shacks on every side, tumbling in with barely enough space to squeeze through. Suddenly I feel very conscious about the large camera I'm carrying with me. I can barely get through some alleys with the camera bag! What prompted me to make myself so conspicuous... Finally an Urdu speaking shopkeeper says, "Go up the stairs to the jori factory, they're all Bengali." I climb up slowly with my load and make a bumbling entrance. My bag gets stuck on a pipe, and somebody jubilantly yells from downstairs, "wo fas giya!" He climbs up to disentangle me and by the time I get upstairs, the jori factory workers are all staring at me. Red-faced, I begin a stumbled, rushed explanation. "I'm from Bangladesh, I make films, I was here visiting a friend, I'm looking for Bangalis, especially people from Bangladesh.." my voice trails off as the awkwardness of the situation slowly comes home. In a city where the Shiv Sena plays politics with the juju of "illegal Bangladeshi" migrants. In a volatile situation where "push back" has entered the subcontinental vernacular. Where election season means giving instructions to pakrao the "illegals." Where Bangladeshi is also the BJP's coded way of saying "Muslim". Walking into a slum where the BJP-era police were rounding up and deporting suspected Bangladeshis, who will admit to being Bangladeshi to me? "Who are you?" one of them asks, he can't have been more than sixteen. I start my explanation again and halfway through, he interrupts and says in Hindi, "Speak to us in Hindi, we don't understand Bangla!" "But you just spoke to me in Bangla" "No we don't understand Bangla, we speak only Hindi, we don't know what you're looking for." The music was turned down. One of them turns it back up. Hindi, filmi, loud… I keep trying for a few minutes. The pathos of the situation seeps in and I give up. I start climbing back down, careful about my bag this time. "What happened, bhaisaab?" asks the Urdu speaker downstairs. I explain, embarrassed, like a jilted lover. "No, no, they're lying, they're all from Kolkata." "Hey," he yells up, "Thum jhut kiu bola…why did you lie? " Then turning to me, "Listen no one wants to admit being Bangali, because the police are always looking for Bangladeshis. It means anyone who's Bangali and Muslim is a suspect. Then they threaten to deport you, you bribe them 2000 rupees, and they let you go. Sometimes they put them in the van for show and let them off a mile from here. It's all about money." Someone else, "You need to tell them you are a journalist, you will print their photo." I hesitate, "I don't think that will reassure them." (I'm not a journalist anyway) Another man chimes in, "We're not afraid, take our photo." "But you're not Bangali." He breaks into a smile. "Yes, that's why I don't care if you take my photo. Listen go to that store. They are older, they are not as afraid as those kids." I climb up another flight of stairs. This time, puzzled looks again, but not as much hostility. They listen, and continue their jori weaving work. After the explanation, the man in front starts speaking. Very precise, with a strong Kolkata accent. "Listen, no one will talk to you, everyone is scared. We're not scared, that's why no one has ever given us trouble." Another craftsman speaks up. "But even if they do, so what. Listen bhai, those who are scared are usually the ones they catch." They're speaking in turns, filling in each other's sentences with comfort. "But it's all for bribery. They want a bribe, otherwise they'll send you over the border. They even cut off your shirt label, so no proof of where you came from." "But when they get to the border, Bangladesh doesn't want them either. Why should they, ey apod abar kottheke elo? And another thing, they separate families. Men are put in one camp, women in another, children in a third one. If you really want to push people out, this is not the way you do it." "So..do people here think I'm with police?" I ask at last. "No no, no one thinks you're CID. But your clothes, your hair, your shoe, and the samal you're carrying makes you look different, so people are nervous. What does he want, they are asking. You arrived suddenly, no one knows you. This is not the proper way to come to our area. Come with introduction." Another man joins in, "But you should be careful, coming here where you do not know anyone, with all that samal, anything could happen. Even in the daytime. You shouldn't have come here with all this stuff." "But I have a passport. I'm carrying it with me!" "So what, if police rip up your passport, what will you do? You'll speak English, they'll pretend not to understand. You'll speak Hindi, they'll pretend not to understand. It takes nothing to put you in jail." "But I'll tell you what no one will admit. There are maybe 700,000 people here. At least half are from Bangladesh. Maybe they came now, maybe they came before partition, no one knows-- how could they? They have always been here." They start to warm up, and get a little angrier too. "But now no one wants to admit it because you will get thrown out. It's completely unfair, just politics and money. Some of these people have been here for generations, suddenly at night they are getting the knock." This goes on for a while. Hostility to the police, to the politicians, to the BJP. All seeping out, bit by bit. "How long have you been in the jori business?" I finally ask. "We Muslims have been in it for a long time, you could say this is our khandani. But now Hindus have also come in, so prices have gone down. You can barely eat on this. That's why all our families are back in Kolkata." The first man looks up at me, staring for a moment, before asking his question. "Are you Muslim?" "Yes. And you...?" He just points to the Arabic script on the wall. "Yes, all the people in the jori business in this neighborhood are Muslim. So... you can celebrate Eid with us." A new person enters. He's younger and seems to be the manager. He looks over at me, suspicious and watchful. The mood is broken, conversation withers away. Everyone goes back to work. A bottle of Pepsi arrives for me. I ask permission and take a few pictures. We think of exchanging information. They have no address to give me. "What about this Factory?" "No point giving you this address, tomorrow you may come back and I may not be here. Maybe next week, the whole slum will be gone. It's happened before." "But take my address, and if you come to Bangladesh, please visit." They nod. But we all know, they're not coming to Bangladesh. It takes a long time to say goodbye. I stay another hour. They give me Pepsi again. The conversation is light, scattered over the sound of work. But they seem mystified by my desire to leave. "Why do you want to leave quickly?" I explain that I am in Bombay for a few days, want to spend some time with my friend. They nod but don't really pay too much attention. Finally it's really time to leave. As I get up, he stops me, "Ok, one very important question for you." "Yes, go ahead..." "Do you really think they got Saddam?" I'm a bit stupefied. This? This is the big question? The others join in enthusiastically, this is clearly the burning topic on their mind. "We all think that's a copy. Otherwise why do they have to check his teeth?" "Saddam is not a hero, a woman! How did he get caught? Why didn't he kill himself, that's what I would have done." We argue about Saddam for a bit. Real? Copy? Finally I stop it. "Listen this conversation will never end. I really have to go. Getting late. Long way to my friend's house. We'll talk about it next time." "Yes," he replies, "Next time." _______________________________________________ shobak mailing list shobak at idash.org http://idash.org/mailman/listinfo/shobak From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 23:18:03 2007 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:18:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz In-Reply-To: <47e122a70708061044w3f8dbde2obe97283b18763c7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70708061044w3f8dbde2obe97283b18763c7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70708061048g26986d6ct773482ae3bad9e97@mail.gmail.com> Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz This is about 16th and 17 century. After the full moon of Habba Khatoon alias Zooni, Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz shone on the South American horizon nearly one century later. We don't have detailed account of Habba Khatoon unlike Sor Juna whom we know how she died and even at what time of which month and of what disease. That is that, but what fascinates me here, is their similarity in many areas. Both Habba and Juana come from a humble background, and both ended tragically. Both were gifted poets with a deep love for music, though Sor Juana was well read and knew science as well from the beginning, but both had no regular schooling. Both were in love, and both were radical in thought and profoundly protesting against the social decadence and other forms of human suffering. To say the least, both were women, and beautiful. Sor Juana was not only a poet but a philosopher, playwright, and prose writer. She was an illegitimate and a lesbian, unlike Habba Khatoon who was simply the daughter of a peasant; and in love with nature from the beginning. I said this because we don't have an intensive record of her upbringing, adolescence and marriage. But I am sure, the medieval rural of Maxico and Kashmir must have been quite lyrical, because of which it was possible for daughters of humble backgrounds to pick up the nuances of song making intrinsically. The credit goes to the inherent strength in the folk music it self; and since folk is non-translatable into any other form of expression, and here, any attempt to compare the two great poets is almost insignificant. While Octavio Paz won Nobel prize in 1990 for his monumental work on Sor Juana, our Kashmiri Nightingale, for some Kashmiri brothers, is still not impressive enough to qualify as a poet, even. Sor Juana was Catholic and a Nun in an autocratic, theocratic, male dominated society, and when she pressed for the proper education of girls she was forced to stop writing, which finally resulted in the sale of her collection of 4000 books, musical instruments and everything she identified with. That was the beginning of her quick end, hastened by the Plauge in the city. On the contrary, Habba Khatoon was beaten by her first husband and forced to abandon poetry, which dramatically caused her to discover new love, a new lease of life as a creative poet in the court of King Yousuf Shah Check. But she was soon out of favour when the Kashmiri Sultan was killed by Mughal Emperor, Akbar the Great. That was the beginning of her tragic end, too. A Habba Khatoon poem is the effortless song of a woman poet, quite like Sor Juana's, but in a different context, perhaps. When I hear, ' bei tschsai Zameen tai, tchi chook Asman, seers chook sar posh' the blue earth flashes in front of my eyes. I see, the zameen ( the earth ) surrounded by invisible air, being kissed by the very transparency it is surrounded with. A deep kiss in its entirety, writing all the far and beyond, in 'a blue', we all are familiar with. A great secret which we can see from a distant planet, but can visualize and experience only from below, and hence a secret. This woman poet was able to appropriate the whole of earth in a bid to proclaim 'love' so overwhelmingly that even the sky looks smaller. The echo of such a thought comes to us from an ancient Shiva Shakti thought but since that has turned merely into a popular worship form of main stream Hindu religion, unlike the word ' zameen' ( earth ) which gives us back our empirical pride and a grass root belonging at the same time. I approach, and I withdraw: who but I could find absence in the eyes, presence in what's far? This is sor Junana, experiencing the meaning of visual so spontaneously. Here, I am a little interested to see how the poet's quantum of thought weaves all the possibility, with such a precision, and yet declares nothing, and hence so secretive, so personal and so close to ones life, particularly a woman's… The most famous song in Kashmir by Haba Khatoon is her protest against in-laws, who were perhaps pressing her for dowry. During one of those days when she happened to break her water pitcher she gives a call to her parents to come to her rescue and provide her with a new pitcher. "The mother-in law grabbed me by my hair, which stung me more than the pangs of death. I fell asleep on the supporting plank of the spinning wheel, and in this way, the circular wheel got damaged. I cannot reconcile myself with the atrocities of the inlaws, O! my parents, please come to my rescue." ( translation by KN Dhar ) The song goes on and on. Poets are perhaps tailor made to take the matters of dignity too seriously. Needless to say that woman have suffered more than anybody else in the whole process of civilization making. Children have suffered too, and here is how Haba Khatoon expresses so lucidly in verses "My parents sent me to a distant school for receiving tuition. The teacher there beat me with a tender stick mercilessly and ignited a fire within me; No body's youth with child- like innocence should go unrewarded like that of mine." ( translation by KN Dhar) The manner in which Haba Khatoon spoke against the Child-abuse is without a parallel in the whole of literature. Unpredictability, the essential element of poetry pours out just a bud comes out a bough, with a universal human heart of a mother. The popularity of the songs has given it a status in the cultural history of Kashmir that no one can erase it from the memory of people who are celebrating the songs of Haba Khatoon in the present, even. Unfortunately, her creative being was cut short, more for her being a woman than by the death of King Yousuf Shah Check. This is how she expresses, perhaps in her last song. Tschi kaho watiyo mani marnay " what will you gain by my death, O God.' One finds a similar echo in Sor Juana's last inscription, title of a film also, la peor de todas ("I, The Worst of All") Here, a Sor Juana poem translated in English: Silly, you men-so very adept at wrongly faulting womankind, not seeing you're alone to blame for faults you plant in woman's mind. After you've won by urgent plea the right to tarnish her good name, you still expect her to behave-- you, that coaxed her into shame. You batter her resistance down and then, all righteousness, proclaim that feminine frivolity, not your persistence, is to blame. When it comes to bravely posturing, your witlessness must take the prize: you're the child that makes a bogeyman, and then recoils in fear and cries. Presumptuous beyond belief, you'd have the woman you pursue be Thais when you're courting her, Lucretia once she falls to you. For plain default of common sense, could any action be so queer as oneself to cloud the mirror, then complain that it's not clear? Whether you're favored or disdained, nothing can leave you satisfied. You whimper if you're turned away, you sneer if you've been gratified. With you, no woman can hope to score; whichever way, she's bound to lose; spurning you, she's ungrateful-- succumbing, you call her lewd. Your folly is always the same: you apply a single rule to the one you accuse of looseness and the one you brand as cruel. What happy mean could there be for the woman who catches your eye, if, unresponsive, she offends, yet whose complaisance you decry? Still, whether it's torment or anger-- and both ways you've yourselves to blame-- God bless the woman who won't have you, no matter how loud you complain. It's your persistent entreaties that change her from timid to bold. Having made her thereby naughty, you would have her good as gold. So where does the greater guilt lie for a passion that should not be: with the man who pleads out of baseness or the woman debased by his plea? Or which is more to be blamed-- though both will have cause for chagrin: the woman who sins for money or the man who pays money to sin? So why are you men all so stunned at the thought you're all guilty alike? Either like them for what you've made them or make of them what you can like. If you'd give up pursuing them, you'd discover, without a doubt, you've a stronger case to make against those who seek you out. I well know what powerful arms you wield in pressing for evil: your arrogance is allied with the world, the flesh, and the devil! -- -- From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 23:57:42 2007 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Riaz Bajwa) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:27:42 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation for Nominations to the Stockholm Challenge Award 2008 & Stockholm Challenge GKP Awards 2007 Message-ID: <46b7682e.16538c0a.339d.1c83@mx.google.com> Dear ICT & FOSS Community Members, The International Free and Open Source Software Foundation iFOSSF, MI, USA (http://www.ifossf.org) is a member of the Champions Network of the Stockholm Challenge (http://www.stockholmchallenge.se). We would like to identify innovative and/or outstanding projects and programmes from the community that use ICT (Information and Communication Technologies) and FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) to intervene in social and economic problems in worthwhile and innovative ways. We would like to encourage organizations to submit their projects that would make an excellent participant in the following categories of the Stockholm Challenge, with the Awards being made in May 2008. If you are also a member of a Multi Stakeholder partnership, you may also be eligible for the Stockholm Challenge GKP Awards 2007. The entries to both awards are through the same entry form at ( http://my.stockholmchallenge.se/user/register ): - Public Administration - Culture - Health - Education - Economic Development - Environment This invitation does not in any way guarantee that you will become a finalist; that is up to the Award’s completely independent jury panel, but the staff of iFOSSF and the Challenge is always ready to help you in putting together the most effective entry and to promote your project through our website and our own publicity events. The official closing dates for submission of participant nominations are as per the following: 1. Stockholm Challenge GKP Awards - 31 August 2007 2. Stockholm Challenge Award - 31 December 2007 About the Stockholm Challenge: The Stockholm Challenge ( http://www.stockholmchallenge.se ) encourages and acknowledges projects that tackle the problems of the digital divide and that use ICT to intervene in social and economic problems in worthwhile and innovative ways. In its 10 year existence (originally as the Bangemann Challenges) the Stockholm Challenge has brought together hundreds of finalists at our exhibitions and prize-giving events, acknowledged and raised the profile of the finalists and major award winners and built a challenge "family" of participants who continue to gain benefits from their association with our event. The Challenge is owned and managed by KTH http://www.kth.se/eng (The Royal Institute of Technology) with support from SIDA ( http://www.sida.se/Sida/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=107 ), City of Stockholm ( http://www.stockholm.se/english ), and Ericsson ( http://www.ericsson.com ). This arrangement makes it possible for to set up new possibilities for links both with academic researchers and innovators from around the world. About the International Free and Open Source Software Foundation: The International Free and Open Source Software Foundation (iFOSSF http://www.ifossf.org ) is a nonprofit organization incorporated in Michigan, United States. Its mission is to accelerate the development and usage of Information and Communication Technologies with Free and Open Source Software worldwide for sustained economic and social development, especially for the socially disadvantaged. iFOSSF is centered on FOSS; its purpose is to apply thought leadership in support of innovation and creativity in research and development of FOSS solutions for the benefit of the global community." More information: If you would like to participate in this event, please visit the entry form here ( http://my.stockholmchallenge.se/user/register ). If you would like to know more about the Challenge, please visit the award website, or contact iFOSSF at this address. Thank you once again for your enthusiasm and support. Kind regards Fouad Riaz Bajwa Secretary & Co-Founder International Free and Open Source Software Foundation http://www.ifossf.org Champions Network Stockholm Challenge Award http://www.stockholmchallenge.se From info at art-action.org Tue Aug 7 00:52:13 2007 From: info at art-action.org (Les Rencontres Internationales) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:22:13 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for entries 2007/ Paris / Berlin / Madrid Message-ID: <46B774E4.7184BE3B@art-action.org> Dear all on Reader List, Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating for the 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will take place from November the 22d to December the 1st in Paris at the Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other location. This piece of information is released so that artists, filmmakers, and collectives may submit their works. General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is posted on our website, at : http://art-action.org Please feel free to forward this information as widely as possible and to contact us for any further information. Best wishes The Festival team ============================================== ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm *** Please forward this information as widely as possible *** The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in November 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national museum and in other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid in April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. Those three events will propose an international programming focusing on new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with young artists and not much distributed filmmakers. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL PROPOSALS. THE CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, without any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, without any limitation of geographic origin. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + CINEMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) * Video / Video art / Experimental video * Experimental Film * Documentary, experimental documentary * Fiction - short, medium and feature length * Animation movie MULTIMEDIA CYCLES * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions are sent by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, UNTIL THE 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available on our website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple presentation of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering various guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, institutions and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of creation and its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts that often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects specificities and crossings of art practices between new cinema and contemporary art, explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and work out this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, at creating circulations between different art practices and between different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between artists, filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported by French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to creative organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and filmmakers you are in contact with. Best wishes. The Rencontres Internationales -- Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cinéma Entrepôt 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st From pukar at pukar.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:12:53 2007 From: pukar at pukar.org.in (PUKAR) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:12:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [announcements] India China Institute Fellows Program : Inviting applications Message-ID: <001701c7d7ec$dfd83250$3466c2cb@freeda> India China Institute - PUKAR (Local Partner) invites applications for the India China Institute Fellows Program The India China Institute (ICI) based at The New School, New York, invites applications for its second fellowship program: Prosperity and Inequality: India and China India China Fellows Program (ICFP), ICI seeks applicants who are highly accomplished, innovative and emerging leaders with 5 to 15 years of professional experience in their respective fields. Applicants from diverse backgrounds such as public administration, academics, media, civic action, art, architecture and private entrepreneurship are encouraged to apply. Applicants should address the program theme with particular focus on regional development, migration, and design strategies. Priority will be given to applicants who are sensitive to social, cultural and gender aspects. This two year fellowship requires: 1. Indian citizenship and proof of residency for more than 5 years 2. Masters Degree or equivalent experience 3. Willingness to be an active and essential participant in an interactive, intellectual, collaborative research project that will be innovative and influential 4. Commitment to participate in 4 international residencies: . March 16-30, 2008, NY . November2-9, 2008, China . August 23-30, 2009, India . April 14-18, 2010 (tbd) 5. Total fluency in English, working knowledge of the computer and access to internet for communication and research purpose 6. The selected fellows could continue their current profession during their fellowship period. They will be assisted in the research proposal, travel, workshops and compensated appropriately by an honorarium 7. Applications must be postmarked no later than August 30, 2007. Late applications will not be considered. (Kindly ignore this mail if you have already applied) Application Forms can be downloaded from: www.indiachina.newschool.edu For further information, please write or email: Dr. Anita Patil-Deshmukh Senior Advisor, India China Institute C/o PUKAR, 1-4, 2nd floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P M Road, Fort, Mumbai, 400 001 Tel: 91 22 6505 3302 Fax: 91 22 6664 0561 E-mail : deshmuka at newschool.edu; pukar at pukar.org.in PUKAR (Partners for Urban Knowledge Action and Research) Address:: 1-4, 2nd Floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P. M. Road, Fort, Mumbai 400 001 Telephone:: +91 (22) 6574 8152 Fax:: +91 (22) 6664 0561 Email:: pukar at pukar.org.in Website:: www.pukar.org.in -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kj.impulse at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 23:28:01 2007 From: kj.impulse at gmail.com (Kavita Joshi [Impulse]) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:28:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA: 12] Screening of Jahaji Music by Surabhi Sharma Message-ID: <821019d70708051058k1d321a53l9b6fa7d50164307e@mail.gmail.com> Surabhi Sharma's feature length documentary film Jahaji Music is a record of the evolution of chutney music in the Caribbean. From the mid-nineteenth century Indian labourers arrived in the Caribbean on boats, bringing a few belongings and their music, the beginnings of a remarkable cultural practice. More than 150 years later musician Remo Fernandes travels to the Islands to explore collaborations and create new work. Jahaji Music is a record of a difficult, if unusual and complex, musical journey. It is an attempt to make meaning of aspects of contemporary culture in Trinidad and Jamaica, even as we witness the nature and possibilities of artistic collaboration. The film endeavours, through it all, to weave a story of memory, identity and creativity. Duration: 1 hour 52 minutes. Date: August 9, 2007 Venue for Screening: India International Centre (IIC) Auditorium, 40 Max Mueller Marg, New Delhi 110 003, Tel: 011 24619431 Time : 6.30 pm Entry is free. No passes needed. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive/ Contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com Visit our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org See the LIST OF FILMS in the Archive: http://www.delhifilmarchive.org/archive.html -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 15:34:54 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:34:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz In-Reply-To: <47e122a70708061048g26986d6ct773482ae3bad9e97@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70708061044w3f8dbde2obe97283b18763c7a@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70708061048g26986d6ct773482ae3bad9e97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708070304v68979522hd8ba462f8f910901@mail.gmail.com> Kashmir has been home to some really great poets like Shams Faqir,Ahad Zargar,Mahmud Gami,Krishanjoo Razdan,Samad Mir,Dina Nath Nadim and many more,Habba Khatoon or Zoon does not qualify in the same league of poets as the ones named above her. This is primarily on account of the following 1.She was more of a singer and it is to this day believed in Kashmir that her voice resonated in the saffron fields of Pampore 2.She was a song writer or lyricist of the songs she sang.Now very few can describe Indeevar as a poet,despite the fact that he wrote some exceptional songs. Having said that her contribution as a song writer or a keeper of conscience/rebel to the society in which she lived cannot be undermined. She speaks of the constant ridicule that she had to undergo at the hands of her first and only husband(she was only a concubine to Yusuf Shah Chak,and not a wife..this has been testified by Amin Kamil and TN Raina)...when she sings...Not me phutmo malinavay ho.... She also brings home the point how women were mistreated,and most wanted a girl not to be born( in her song..chuye baer baer mas pyalo...in which she says...most frown at the birth of a girl...although a girl is a lion yet they make her feel like a fox) She is a nationalist to core...when she sings paens to Yusuf Shah Chak in her tribute when he fights Akbar...She sings..O my friend see what feats he accomplished...neither the axes nor arrows did he fear...thats why my friend he is Sher-i-Jabbar..(vich taem sakhiyav kaer kith karo-na su khooch teeras na su tabre..tavay tas naav paev sher-jabbaro) One can really write volumes on her songs and her rather sad life...but Habba Khatoon alongwith Lalded,and Arinmal remain the voices of Kashmiri women...till date.... but to call her a poet would be comparing her to Ahmed Batwari and Abdul Ahad Azad...which is rather unfair.. The only song where she shows some flashes of poetry is Valo myane poshe madano....one of the verses read(i try and translate) O my friend..let us go and fetch water(Vale vyes gachevay aabas) while the world is still asleep(duniya chu naendre khwabas) I await his reply(here she transcends the boundary of song writing to a higher plane)(praran tahendes jawabas) Come my beloved friend....(valo myane poshe madano) Regards Rashneek On 8/6/07, inder salim wrote: > > Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz > > This is about 16th and 17 century. After the full moon of Habba > Khatoon alias Zooni, Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz shone on the South > American horizon nearly one century later. We don't have detailed > account of Habba Khatoon unlike Sor Juna whom we know how she died and > even at what time of which month and of what disease. That is that, > but what fascinates me here, is their similarity in many areas. Both > Habba and Juana come from a humble background, and both ended > tragically. Both were gifted poets with a deep love for music, though > Sor Juana was well read and knew science as well from the beginning, > but both had no regular schooling. Both were in love, and both were > radical in thought and profoundly protesting against the social > decadence and other forms of human suffering. To say the least, both > were women, and beautiful. > > Sor Juana was not only a poet but a philosopher, playwright, and > prose writer. She was an illegitimate and a lesbian, unlike Habba > Khatoon who was simply the daughter of a peasant; and in love with > nature from the beginning. I said this because we don't have an > intensive record of her upbringing, adolescence and marriage. But I am > sure, the medieval rural of Maxico and Kashmir must have been quite > lyrical, because of which it was possible for daughters of humble > backgrounds to pick up the nuances of song making intrinsically. The > credit goes to the inherent strength in the folk music it self; and > since folk is non-translatable into any other form of expression, and > here, any attempt to compare the two great poets is almost > insignificant. While Octavio Paz won Nobel prize in 1990 for his > monumental work on Sor Juana, our Kashmiri Nightingale, for some > Kashmiri brothers, is still not impressive enough to qualify as a > poet, even. > > Sor Juana was Catholic and a Nun in an autocratic, theocratic, male > dominated society, and when she pressed for the proper education of > girls she was forced to stop writing, which finally resulted in the > sale of her collection of 4000 books, musical instruments and > everything she identified with. That was the beginning of her quick > end, hastened by the Plauge in the city. On the contrary, Habba > Khatoon was beaten by her first husband and forced to abandon poetry, > which dramatically caused her to discover new love, a new lease of > life as a creative poet in the court of King Yousuf Shah Check. But > she was soon out of favour when the Kashmiri Sultan was killed by > Mughal Emperor, Akbar the Great. That was the beginning of her tragic > end, too. > > A Habba Khatoon poem is the effortless song of a woman poet, quite > like Sor Juana's, but in a different context, perhaps. When I hear, > ' bei tschsai Zameen tai, tchi chook Asman, seers chook sar posh' the > blue earth flashes in front of my eyes. I see, the zameen ( the earth > ) surrounded by invisible air, being kissed by the very transparency > it is surrounded with. A deep kiss in its entirety, writing all the > far and beyond, in 'a blue', we all are familiar with. A great secret > which we can see from a distant planet, but can visualize and > experience only from below, and hence a secret. This woman poet was > able to appropriate the whole of earth in a bid to proclaim 'love' so > overwhelmingly that even the sky looks smaller. The echo of such a > thought comes to us from an ancient Shiva Shakti thought but since > that has turned merely into a popular worship form of main stream > Hindu religion, unlike the word ' zameen' ( earth ) which gives us > back our empirical pride and a grass root belonging at the same time. > > I approach, and I withdraw: > who but I could find > absence in the eyes, > presence in what's far? > > This is sor Junana, experiencing the meaning of visual so > spontaneously. Here, I am a little interested to see how the poet's > quantum of thought weaves all the possibility, with such a precision, > and yet declares nothing, and hence so secretive, so personal and so > close to ones life, particularly a woman's… > > The most famous song in Kashmir by Haba Khatoon is her protest against > in-laws, who were perhaps pressing her for dowry. During one of those > days when she happened to break her water pitcher she gives a call to > her parents to come to her rescue and provide her with a new pitcher. > > "The mother-in law grabbed me by my hair, which stung me more than the > pangs of death. I fell asleep on the supporting plank of the spinning > wheel, and in this way, the circular wheel got damaged. I cannot > reconcile myself with the atrocities of the inlaws, O! my parents, > please come to my rescue." ( translation by KN Dhar ) > > The song goes on and on. Poets are perhaps tailor made to take the > matters of dignity too seriously. Needless to say that woman have > suffered more than anybody else in the whole process of civilization > making. Children have suffered too, and here is how Haba Khatoon > expresses so lucidly in verses > > "My parents sent me to a distant school for receiving tuition. The > teacher there beat me with a tender stick mercilessly and ignited a > fire within me; No body's youth with child- like innocence should go > unrewarded like that of mine." ( translation by KN Dhar) > > The manner in which Haba Khatoon spoke against the Child-abuse is > without a parallel in the whole of literature. Unpredictability, the > essential element of poetry pours out just a bud comes out a bough, > with a universal human heart of a mother. The popularity of the songs > has given it a status in the cultural history of Kashmir that no one > can erase it from the memory of people who are celebrating the songs > of Haba Khatoon in the present, even. > > Unfortunately, her creative being was cut short, more for her being a > woman than by the death of King Yousuf Shah Check. This is how she > expresses, perhaps in her last song. > > Tschi kaho watiyo mani marnay " what will you gain by my death, O God.' > One finds a similar echo in Sor Juana's last inscription, title of a > film also, la peor de todas ("I, The Worst of All") > > Here, a Sor Juana poem translated in English: > > Silly, you men-so very adept > at wrongly faulting womankind, > not seeing you're alone to blame > for faults you plant in woman's mind. > > After you've won by urgent plea > the right to tarnish her good name, > you still expect her to behave-- > you, that coaxed her into shame. > > You batter her resistance down > and then, all righteousness, proclaim > that feminine frivolity, > not your persistence, is to blame. > > When it comes to bravely posturing, > your witlessness must take the prize: > you're the child that makes a bogeyman, > and then recoils in fear and cries. > > Presumptuous beyond belief, > you'd have the woman you pursue > be Thais when you're courting her, > Lucretia once she falls to you. > > For plain default of common sense, > could any action be so queer > as oneself to cloud the mirror, > then complain that it's not clear? > > Whether you're favored or disdained, > nothing can leave you satisfied. > You whimper if you're turned away, > you sneer if you've been gratified. > > With you, no woman can hope to score; > whichever way, she's bound to lose; > spurning you, she's ungrateful-- > succumbing, you call her lewd. > > Your folly is always the same: > you apply a single rule > to the one you accuse of looseness > and the one you brand as cruel. > > What happy mean could there be > for the woman who catches your eye, > if, unresponsive, she offends, > yet whose complaisance you decry? > > Still, whether it's torment or anger-- > and both ways you've yourselves to blame-- > God bless the woman who won't have you, > no matter how loud you complain. > > It's your persistent entreaties > that change her from timid to bold. > Having made her thereby naughty, > you would have her good as gold. > > So where does the greater guilt lie > for a passion that should not be: > with the man who pleads out of baseness > or the woman debased by his plea? > > Or which is more to be blamed-- > though both will have cause for chagrin: > the woman who sins for money > or the man who pays money to sin? > > So why are you men all so stunned > at the thought you're all guilty alike? > Either like them for what you've made them > or make of them what you can like. > > If you'd give up pursuing them, > you'd discover, without a doubt, > you've a stronger case to make > against those who seek you out. > > I well know what powerful arms > you wield in pressing for evil: > your arrogance is allied > with the world, the flesh, and the devil! > > > > -- > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From delhi.yunus at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 15:39:06 2007 From: delhi.yunus at gmail.com (Syed Yunus) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 03:09:06 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Taxi Project - Meter Down Podcast In-Reply-To: <13373.39101.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <13373.39101.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kabi, Your description is great. what about the commercial, Call a cab flood, which has particular numbers. who are these people? I found interesting stories of the city with the "on call mechanics" who work with car helplines. best, Yunus On 8/3/07, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > As part of a larger project on Bombay taxi drivers ( kaali-peeli ki kahani), I have been recording conversations with cab drivers, with their permission of course, as we ride from one place to another in the city. I am now podcasting these conversations as episodes in a podcast called Meter Down. The language is Hindi. I consider this project an oral history, a verbal record, that explores the questions of migration and mulak, bombay and change, taxi-driving and life. The cabbies, of course, also tell some wonderful stories. > > You can listen to these conversations at http://meterdown.wordpress.com, a blog on which I also post photos of the drivers and their taxis. Outtakes of some of the wonderful bits of these conversations are also posted on the site for listener convenience. > I am an ex-taxi driver myself and have been working on this Bombay taxi driver project for a year now. Taxi drivers write the city: they move through its streets and collect its stories. They track its changes while journeying with their passengers through its transformations and they experience the absence of the old. Yet they are also the subjects of these changes. Driver-owned old taxis are being forced out of service and their permits cancelled. New private taxi fleets with 'modern' vehicles are vying for these permits but refuse to hire most of the drivers. The drivers' futures are uncertain. A majority of the drivers are migrants, each with his own sense of home. I am interested in this internal migration, the movement of people from the villages to a city that looks away from these villages and outward into a globalising world. what did the taxi drivers leave behind? what dreams did they bring and what dreams remain? where is home now? > > > > The project also includes documenting and photographing the personal and creative designs that cab drivers employ to make each taxi a signifier of the self: words on the back windows that act like clues, rexine mudflaps, mirrored ceilings, patterened seat-covers, radium patterning and painted mechanical meters. I print these images to fabric and create textile pieces. I buy old steering wheels and wrap them using plastic flourescent rope, making patterns by putting radium underneath, as I learned to do from an old radiumwala. I use rearview mirrors and photos of drivers' eyes to make 'gaze pieces'. > > > But it is these podcasts that are the ballast. Please give them a listen. > > > I have currently posted two episodes on the blog and plan to post another conversation every 15-20 days. I appreciate feedback, suggestions, critiques, etc. There is a place on the blog for comments or you can email me at this ID. > > If you have Itunes, you can search for 'Meter Down' and subscribe to the podcast or download episodes from there, esp. if bandwidth is a problem. Meter Down is also listed in some podcast directories such as Podcast Alley, Odeo (tho only 1 episode showing) , podcastingnews, and Google using meter down podcast search terms. > > regards, > kabi > > http://meterdown.wordpress.com > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Change is the only constant in life ! From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 15:48:03 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:48:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Response to Sanjay Kak's blog comments Message-ID: *For All the Responses - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/* ** *Rashneek's Response* :- *I wasnt surprised and shocked to read what a film maker had to write on his blog about a "group of people"who have made it a mission to follow the film and stop it from circulating.What wishful thinking? Alas delusions of megalomania cant come in better ways than this.Dont we all know these wannabe Noam Chomskys are in constant fear of argument thats why they dont publish comments that arent really favourable to them in their blog.* * Now,who is this small group of people and are they really following the movie as much as the film maker belives.The Film maker is only and I use the word only a FILM MAKER.Roots in Kashmir activists are not a small group,one...they are more than 700 young Kashmiri Pandits across the globe(where there Mujahideen tormentors threw them),two they are executives,teachers,art historians and of course students...who have much more to do to earn their livelihood than to simply follow this biased documentary. * *For More log on to :* http://nietzschereborn.blogspot.com/ ** *Aditya Raj's Response* :- *Sanjay Kak's Safar-e-Aazadi and Yasin Malik's Jashan-e-Aazadi. Or, Am I confused? Oh yes its the other way round, but how does it matter to the common Kashmiri's. The only difference is that one is the puppet and the other is the puppet's thread puller. Sanjay Kak obviously irritated because of the amount of criticism his masala movie is receiving and also lately the Police has also stopped his screenings and confiscated his DVD's in Mumbai. In mere frustration he blasted off writing an article targeting a young group of Kashmiri Pandits and some others for this mess up, not realising what he was bouncing his fingers on. Obviously, his masters wouldn't be so happy with him because of the negative success he is getting lately because of this youth group called ROOTS IN KASHMIR . * ** *For More log on: * http://kauladityaraj.blogspot.com/ ** *Nishant's Response* :- *(not sure whether he will allow it on his blog...Sanjay Kak talks of freedom,yet his blog is moderated...irony....or joke)* * There was a mail invitation doing the rounds of the "E-mail Fwd Circuit", which spoke of a Documentary made by this young Indian filmmaker with many accolades and awards for his past portfolio of work in the "Festival Circuit". * *For More log on to* - http://shala-thokyi-pyath-rikyin.blogspot.com/ *Also visit,* *Soul In Exile* :- *Since my comments/rebuttals to Sanjay Kak's post about **Jash-e-Azadi* * couldn't pass the filters of moderation, I am posting my note/open letter and five questions to Sanjay Kak here. Hope Sanjay would oblige with some words of wisdom?Read complete post here... * *For more log on to* - http://soulinexile.blogspot.com/ ** ** *And The World Remained Silent :* http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ *Roots In Kashmir Blog *: http://rootsinkashmir.wordpress.com/ *Link to Sanjay Kak's Moderated Blog - ** http://www.kashmirfilm.wordpress.com/* *Thanks n Regards -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From vrjogi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 7 17:04:32 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:34:32 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi] Message-ID: 'Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmirinationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety ofnationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. Ihave tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria bywhich sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can bejudged against sentiments that attach to another configuration ofterritory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves toany bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you woulddeny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that theylay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do nothave an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have asatisfactory answer?' - Shuddha ................................................................................................ I will try to answer this question, Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or distant relatives come to your house & start staying with you, they expect you to accomodate them permanently, they expect you to do everything for them, they try to do away with your wife's/mother's authority & establish their supremacy in the kitchen. And ultimately they ask you to leave your house & take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be liberal in this case? Will you not try to protect the rights of your wife/mother? Be honest & give me the reply! These guests are outsiders and you will definitely try to throw them out. In a way you are showing narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. Because that is not in your family's interest. Same thing is applicable to your nation. 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the interest of your country' (e.g killing terrorists in Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from Bengal or Assam.) Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but you have no right to stay in my country! Vedavati > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:06:29 +0530> From: shuddha at sarai.net> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi]> > Dear All,> > I have been following with interest the thread that began a few days ago > on the Reader Listregarding the interrupted (or should I say prevented) > screening of Sanjay Kak's documentary film 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in Mumbai, > courtesy the Mumbai Police. It appears from the actions of the Mumbai > Police that that the citizens of Mumbai are more in need of protection > from various kinds of stimuli than those of us who have happily sat > through more than one screening of the said film in Delhi, and in > Srinagar without any harm being done to our minds or bodies.> > I am not writing to defend the film here, because I think a film, or any> work of art does not need a 'defence'. A film, or a work of art, or any> instance of communication is not an accused in a criminal court, we are> not attorneys, advocates and lawyers, a mailing list is not a court. I> am more interested in trying to think through some of the issues that> have been addressed in various postings.> > Those who have called for a ban on the film, or have endorsed the> Mumabai Police's actions, or have written angry mails protesting about> its screening basically have the following arguments, and I will list> them all. Do correct me if I miss any.> > 1. The film is one sided, it does not (adquately) represent the point of> views of displaced Kashmiri Pandits.> > 2. The film gives space to people that some of the correspondents on> this list consider to be 'terrorists'.> > 3. The film is not patriotic or nationalistic.> > I do not disagree with any of the above points. (though I have a> qualified disagreement on point 3, to which I will come later). But even> if all three points are agreed to, I still see no reason why the> automatic response to them has to be a call for a ban. Or for a> vilification of the filmmaker.> > Since it appears (or at least that is what I have been given to> understand) that we live in a nominally free and open cultural space,> there should be no problem at all for anyone to make films that they> think best represents the position that they hold. Either we agree that> this is the case, or we agree that your 'freedom of expression' has to> stay within the narrow limits of what is permissible under the world> view of Indian nationalism. In which event it does not remain freedom of> expression any longer, rather it (the capacity to be expressive) turns> automatically into a monopoly that only Indian nationalists can enjoy.> > In any case, nothing stops, or has stopped till now, anyone from making> any film that -> > a). adequately represents the points of view and experiences of the> Kashmiri Pandit community> > b) gives adequate space and consideration to those gentlemen in and out> of uniform who unleash terror on the majority of the population of the> Kashmir valley> > c) that oozes patriotism or nationalism from every frame> > (On this point I have a slight qualification to make, it seems to me,> that there would be some, though not by any means all, perhaps mainly> Kashmiri nationalists and patriots, who would not be disturbed by> 'Jashn-e-Azadi'. So it is inaccurate to say that the film has to be> rejected if you are a nationalist or a patriot. It all depends on which> kind of patriot or nationalist you are.)> > Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmiri> nationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety of> nationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to> be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. I> have tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria by> which sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can be> judged against sentiments that attach to another configuration of> territory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves to> any bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you would> deny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that they> lay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do not> have an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have a> satisfactory answer? Does anyone even know if a satisfactory answer lies> within the realm of a theorectial or a practical possibility.> > But this is a debate that we can continue on some other occasion, at> least for now, let us return to the film that is exercising everyone so.> > So, those who are so disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azaadi', might think about> how they can make their own film instead of trying to ensure that one> that exists is canned. Similarly, those people in Kashmir, Iran, the UK,> Indonesia, India, Egypt and Syria who stage spectacles calling for the> assasination of Salman Rushdie, or Taslima Nasrin, or the authors of a> batch of cartoons drawn in bad taste, might consider writing their own> books, or drawing their own cartoons. Killing an author or banning a> film or a book results in a net diminishing of cultural material.> Writing a book to argue against one that exists, or making a film to> counter another point of view, (even if jejunely) at least results in an> incremental addition to the body of cultural material available in> society at any given time.> > After all, Sanjay Kak, the maker of 'Jashn-e-Azadi', did not, as far as> I recall, call for bans on documentary films that were considered to> give an 'adequate' representation of Kashmiri Pandit experiences - like> 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or 'And the world> remained silent' . (In fact I do not remember any discussion of whether> such films should be banned.) I also do not remember any obstructions by> angry slogan shouting young men of films that have given more than> adequate representation to the foot-soldiers (formal and informal)of the> Indian state, engaged in fighting terror (and non-terrorist civic> action) with terror in the Kashmir valley. Nor has anyone, to my> knowledge, asked for feature films like 'Roja', 'Dil Se', 'Mission> Kashmir'. '16 December', 'Fanaa', 'Sheen', 'Maa tujhey Salaam' (and I> could go on, because there is an emerging sub-genre of the 'Kashmir'> film in the Bombay film industry) to be banned - all of which are set in> Kashmir, more or less all of which are explicitly sympathetic to the> Kashmiri Pandit point of view, all of which ensure that 'militants' are> portrayed in a purely negative light, and all of which are more than> adequate exemplars of Indian nationalism and patriotism. Needless to> say, several of these films were critically well received, granted> 'entertainment tax exemptions', awarded with state honours and applauded> in the media. The chances of your film doing well if you toe the Indian> state's line on Kashmir are quite high, so it would be some amount of> dissimulation to suggest that films sympathetic to the predicament of> Kashmiri Pandits, or generally supportive to the Indian state's claim on> the territory of Jammu & Kashmir, are somehow marginal, silenced,> censored, obscured expressions. An objective assessment and audit of the> kind of films that have been made on Jammu and Kashmir over the last> twenty odd years would show evidence quite to the contrary.> > If the culture we all participate in (as partisans, protagonists,> spectators, producers and bystangers) is so willing to accept the> presence, circulation and adulation of one point of view, (the Indian> nationalist, explicitly pro Kashmiri Pandit position on J&K) which in> fact has a dominance, a near monopoly on the representation of the issue> of Jammu and Kashmir, at least as far as the moving image in India is> concerned, why then, is it so difficult for this cultural milieu to> tolerate the presence of one or two or maybe three films that try to do> something else?> > A film is not a bomb. A film is not an unsheathed sword. A film is an> argument in words and images. If the dominant argument in words and> images have the lion's share of attention, then what is wrong in another> kind of argument in words and images making itself known. Or is there an> actual anxiety that the case of the dominant argument is so flimsy that> the mere presence of one or two films that act otherwise will blow their> cover?> > Remember, the post 1947 history of Jammu and Kashmir is taught neither> in India, nor in Pakistan, nor in Kashmir. In such a climate, it is very> easy for flimsy arguments to rule the roost. In such a climate it also> becomes necessary for those who live by those flimsy arguments to try> and stop anything else that happens, by any means necessary. Such as> calling the Mumbai Police to stop the screening of a film. I know that> similar things happen in Bangladesh or Pakistan when documentary films> about the fate of the Ahmediya community are sought to be screened.> > I remember having been present at more than one screening of a film such> as 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or having sat> through film after Bollywood film that bedecked itself with the fake> blood of fake Kashmiris. I saw no reason to call the police. I saw no> reason to raise slogans in or outside the auditorium, or to try and> obstruct the possibility of a reasonable discussion. Did anyone on> the list try and call the police, genuflect to the censor board, or make> a noise, or try and obstruct a screening when any of these films were shown?> > If those of you on this list who are endorsing obstructions to the> screening of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' did not object to the screening of all> those films that have entertained us with the agenda of the Indian> state, then I think that it is only fair, reasonable and decent that you> either let films like "Jashn-e-Azaadi' be screened, without interruption> or obstruction or, as a logical corollary to your concern for the> sentiments of those affected by the conflict in Kashmir, call for a> moratorium on any form of expression, including your own, that takes any> stance (or even no stance at all) on the issue of Kashmir. It may be> possible that different kinds of people can find different nuances of an> impoverished and pared down dignity in the ensuing silence.> > It will be more respectful than the clamour of your words today.> > with regards,> > > Shuddha> > > > > > > > > > > > Nishant wrote:> > > Police stops radical film on Kashmir > > > > Disrupt screening of Jashn-e-Azadi at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan on suspicion that the documentary may be provocative and inflammatory > > > > Mumbai police on Friday disrupted the screening a radical film on Kashmir called Jashn-e-Azadi on the suspicion that the feature-length documentary could be "inflammatory and provocative." The 2-hour, 18-minute long documentary, directed by Sanjay Kak, was just about to begin when cops barged into the Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan at Prabhadevi and seized all the dvds. > > > > "We were told that the documentary is provocative and inflammatory. Therefore we requested the organisers to let us watch the movie before it was screened", Deputy Commissioner of Police, D N Phadtare, told Mumbai Mirror. But getting the cops to play censor was not acceptable to the show's organisers, Vikalp. "We told them in that case it would not be possible to allow them to screen the film and confiscated the DVDs," said Phadtare. > > > > Ironically, Jashn-e-Azadi, which has already been screened in Bangalore and Delhi, without anybody getting inflamed or provoked, explores the implications of the struggle for Azadi in the Kashmir Valley. As the blog on documentary ( http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com) says: In : In 2007 India celebrates the 60th anniversary of it's Independence, this provocative and quietly disturbing new film raises questions about freedom in Kashmir, and about the degrees of freedom in India. > > > > When contacted director Sanjay Kak said: "I've been holding a number of private screenings across the country for filmmakers and other interested viewers to start a conversation about the film and get feedback. The Osian film festival in Delhi was the first and only public screening we've had. The screening today was in a private property for a small group of invitees. Vikalp got a call in the morning from the police asking for a copy of the film. When we landed at the venue there was a battalion of cops and they asked us not to screen the film. When we told them to watch it with us they were not willing," said Kak, adding that the cops refused to tell them who had filed the complaint or what the problem was. "All they were willing to say was, 'hamare seniors ka order hai,' and till they had seen the film they could not allow us to go ahead," he said. > > > > (Source: Mumbai Mirror)> > > > > > ___________________________________________________________> > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it> > now.> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ The idiot box is no longer passe! http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/TV/Default.aspx From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Aug 7 17:35:33 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:05:33 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46B8600D.6060806@blueyonder.co.uk> Any kind of prejudice based on religion, colour, gender, caste etc is negative and destructive. Contemporary cosmopolitan society is built on tolerance. In the case of your rather rude guests, I would advise that you negotiate with them and maybe try out some new dishes .. I am sure your wife or mother would be relieved to get out of the kitchen for a few days, months or even years ! Difference and the understanding of difference is how cosmopolitan society functions and is built as far as I can see on negotiation that is quotidian, perpetual and requires reiteration, patience and willingness to change. Sometimes it is also has to emerge as spectacular, radical and violent as with the civil rights movement in the US. The rise of nationalism and racism worldwide is rather depressing and comes out of territorialism, ignorance and aggression. The level of ignorance is so high, sometimes it feels as if the people who cannot be bothered to fight for tolerance are the types who would happily watch public beheadings, the burning of witches (women), lynchings etc, and those people are various and on all sides, be they Islamic, Hindu, or Christian fundamentalists, homophobes, misogynists, racists etc .. I really think that self examination is what counts here ..it is boring and maybe obvious but true. Anyway thats my tuppence's worth.. Anjali Vedavati Jogi wrote: > 'Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmirinationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety ofnationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. Ihave tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria bywhich sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can bejudged against sentiments that attach to another configuration ofterritory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves toany bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you woulddeny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that theylay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do nothave an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have asatisfactory answer?' - Shuddha > ................................................................................................ > > I will try to answer this question, > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or distant relatives come to your house & start staying with you, they expect you to accomodate them permanently, they expect you to do everything for them, they try to do away with your wife's/mother's authority & establish their supremacy in the kitchen. > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house & take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be liberal in this case? Will you not try to protect the rights of your wife/mother? > Be honest & give me the reply! > > These guests are outsiders and you will definitely try to throw them out. In a way you are showing narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. Because that is not in your family's interest. > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the interest of your country' (e.g killing terrorists in Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from Bengal or Assam.) > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but you have no right to stay in my country! > > Vedavati > > > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:06:29 +0530> From: shuddha at sarai.net> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi]> > Dear All,> > I have been following with interest the thread that began a few days ago > on the Reader Listregarding the interrupted (or should I say prevented) > screening of Sanjay Kak's documentary film 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in Mumbai, > courtesy the Mumbai Police. It appears from the actions of the Mumbai > Police that that the citizens of Mumbai are more in need of protection > from various kinds of stimuli than those of us who have happily sat > through more than one screening of the said film in Delhi, and in > Srinagar without any harm being done to our minds or bodies.> > I am not writing to defend the film here, because I think a film, or any> work of art does not need a 'defence'. A film, or a work of art, or any> instance of communication is not an accused in a criminal court, we are> not attorneys, advocates and lawyers, a mailing list is not a court. I> am more interested in trying to think through some of the issues that> have been addressed in various postings.> > Those who have called for a ban on the film, or have endorsed the> Mumabai Police's actions, or have written angry mails protesting about> its screening basically have the following arguments, and I will list> them all. Do correct me if I miss any.> > 1. The film is one sided, it does not (adquately) represent the point of> views of displaced Kashmiri Pandits.> > 2. The film gives space to people that some of the correspondents on> this list consider to be 'terrorists'.> > 3. The film is not patriotic or nationalistic.> > I do not disagree with any of the above points. (though I have a> qualified disagreement on point 3, to which I will come later). But even> if all three points are agreed to, I still see no reason why the> automatic response to them has to be a call for a ban. Or for a> vilification of the filmmaker.> > Since it appears (or at least that is what I have been given to> understand) that we live in a nominally free and open cultural space,> there should be no problem at all for anyone to make films that they> think best represents the position that they hold. Either we agree that> this is the case, or we agree that your 'freedom of expression' has to> stay within the narrow limits of what is permissible under the world> view of Indian nationalism. In which event it does not remain freedom of> expression any longer, rather it (the capacity to be expressive) turns> automatically into a monopoly that only Indian nationalists can enjoy.> > In any case, nothing stops, or has stopped till now, anyone from making> any film that -> > a). adequately represents the points of view and experiences of the> Kashmiri Pandit community> > b) gives adequate space and consideration to those gentlemen in and out> of uniform who unleash terror on the majority of the population of the> Kashmir valley> > c) that oozes patriotism or nationalism from every frame> > (On this point I have a slight qualification to make, it seems to me,> that there would be some, though not by any means all, perhaps mainly> Kashmiri nationalists and patriots, who would not be disturbed by> 'Jashn-e-Azadi'. So it is inaccurate to say that the film has to be> rejected if you are a nationalist or a patriot. It all depends on which> kind of patriot or nationalist you are.)> > Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmiri> nationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety of> nationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to> be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. I> have tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria by> which sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can be> judged against sentiments that attach to another configuration of> territory. If you give value to any sentiments that attach themselves to> any bits of territory, I cannot quite understand why or how you would> deny other people their sentiments to the bits of territory that they> lay claim to. How can we call one more valid than the other? I do not> have an answer to this question. Does anyone else on this list have a> satisfactory answer? Does anyone even know if a satisfactory answer lies> within the realm of a theorectial or a practical possibility.> > But this is a debate that we can continue on some other occasion, at> least for now, let us return to the film that is exercising everyone so.> > So, those who are so disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azaadi', might think about> how they can make their own film instead of trying to ensure that one> that exists is canned. Similarly, those people in Kashmir, Iran, the UK,> Indonesia, India, Egypt and Syria who stage spectacles calling for the> assasination of Salman Rushdie, or Taslima Nasrin, or the authors of a> batch of cartoons drawn in bad taste, might consider writing their own> books, or drawing their own cartoons. Killing an author or banning a> film or a book results in a net diminishing of cultural material.> Writing a book to argue against one that exists, or making a film to> counter another point of view, (even if jejunely) at least results in an> incremental addition to the body of cultural material available in> society at any given time.> > After all, Sanjay Kak, the maker of 'Jashn-e-Azadi', did not, as far as> I recall, call for bans on documentary films that were considered to> give an 'adequate' representation of Kashmiri Pandit experiences - like> 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or 'And the world> remained silent' . (In fact I do not remember any discussion of whether> such films should be banned.) I also do not remember any obstructions by> angry slogan shouting young men of films that have given more than> adequate representation to the foot-soldiers (formal and informal)of the> Indian state, engaged in fighting terror (and non-terrorist civic> action) with terror in the Kashmir valley. Nor has anyone, to my> knowledge, asked for feature films like 'Roja', 'Dil Se', 'Mission> Kashmir'. '16 December', 'Fanaa', 'Sheen', 'Maa tujhey Salaam' (and I> could go on, because there is an emerging sub-genre of the 'Kashmir'> film in the Bombay film industry) to be banned - all of which are set in> Kashmir, more or less all of which are explicitly sympathetic to the> Kashmiri Pandit point of view, all of which ensure that 'militants' are> portrayed in a purely negative light, and all of which are more than> adequate exemplars of Indian nationalism and patriotism. Needless to> say, several of these films were critically well received, granted> 'entertainment tax exemptions', awarded with state honours and applauded> in the media. The chances of your film doing well if you toe the Indian> state's line on Kashmir are quite high, so it would be some amount of> dissimulation to suggest that films sympathetic to the predicament of> Kashmiri Pandits, or generally supportive to the Indian state's claim on> the territory of Jammu & Kashmir, are somehow marginal, silenced,> censored, obscured expressions. An objective assessment and audit of the> kind of films that have been made on Jammu and Kashmir over the last> twenty odd years would show evidence quite to the contrary.> > If the culture we all participate in (as partisans, protagonists,> spectators, producers and bystangers) is so willing to accept the> presence, circulation and adulation of one point of view, (the Indian> nationalist, explicitly pro Kashmiri Pandit position on J&K) which in> fact has a dominance, a near monopoly on the representation of the issue> of Jammu and Kashmir, at least as far as the moving image in India is> concerned, why then, is it so difficult for this cultural milieu to> tolerate the presence of one or two or maybe three films that try to do> something else?> > A film is not a bomb. A film is not an unsheathed sword. A film is an> argument in words and images. If the dominant argument in words and> images have the lion's share of attention, then what is wrong in another> kind of argument in words and images making itself known. Or is there an> actual anxiety that the case of the dominant argument is so flimsy that> the mere presence of one or two films that act otherwise will blow their> cover?> > Remember, the post 1947 history of Jammu and Kashmir is taught neither> in India, nor in Pakistan, nor in Kashmir. In such a climate, it is very> easy for flimsy arguments to rule the roost. In such a climate it also> becomes necessary for those who live by those flimsy arguments to try> and stop anything else that happens, by any means necessary. Such as> calling the Mumbai Police to stop the screening of a film. I know that> similar things happen in Bangladesh or Pakistan when documentary films> about the fate of the Ahmediya community are sought to be screened.> > I remember having been present at more than one screening of a film such> as 'Tell them the tree they have planted has now grown' or having sat> through film after Bollywood film that bedecked itself with the fake> blood of fake Kashmiris. I saw no reason to call the police. I saw no> reason to raise slogans in or outside the auditorium, or to try and> obstruct the possibility of a reasonable discussion. Did anyone on> the list try and call the police, genuflect to the censor board, or make> a noise, or try and obstruct a screening when any of these films were shown?> > If those of you on this list who are endorsing obstructions to the> screening of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' did not object to the screening of all> those films that have entertained us with the agenda of the Indian> state, then I think that it is only fair, reasonable and decent that you> either let films like "Jashn-e-Azaadi' be screened, without interruption> or obstruction or, as a logical corollary to your concern for the> sentiments of those affected by the conflict in Kashmir, call for a> moratorium on any form of expression, including your own, that takes any> stance (or even no stance at all) on the issue of Kashmir. It may be> possible that different kinds of people can find different nuances of an> impoverished and pared down dignity in the ensuing silence.> > It will be more respectful than the clamour of your words today.> > with regards,> > > Shuddha> > > > > > > > > > > > Nishant wrote:> > > Police stops radical film on Kashmir > > > > Disrupt screening of Jashn-e-Azadi at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan on suspicion that the documentary may be provocative and inflammatory > > > > Mumbai police on Friday disrupted the screening a radical film on Kashmir called Jashn-e-Azadi on the suspicion that the feature-length documentary could be "inflammatory and provocative." The 2-hour, 18-minute long documentary, directed by Sanjay Kak, was just about to begin when cops barged into the Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan at Prabhadevi and seized all the dvds. > > > > "We were told that the documentary is provocative and inflammatory. Therefore we requested the organisers to let us watch the movie before it was screened", Deputy Commissioner of Police, D N Phadtare, told Mumbai Mirror. But getting the cops to play censor was not acceptable to the show's organisers, Vikalp. "We told them in that case it would not be possible to allow them to screen the film and confiscated the DVDs," said Phadtare. > > > > Ironically, Jashn-e-Azadi, which has already been screened in Bangalore and Delhi, without anybody getting inflamed or provoked, explores the implications of the struggle for Azadi in the Kashmir Valley. As the blog on documentary ( http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com) says: In : In 2007 India celebrates the 60th anniversary of it's Independence, this provocative and quietly disturbing new film raises questions about freedom in Kashmir, and about the degrees of freedom in India. > > > > When contacted director Sanjay Kak said: "I've been holding a number of private screenings across the country for filmmakers and other interested viewers to start a conversation about the film and get feedback. The Osian film festival in Delhi was the first and only public screening we've had. The screening today was in a private property for a small group of invitees. Vikalp got a call in the morning from the police asking for a copy of the film. When we landed at the venue there was a battalion of cops and they asked us not to screen the film. When we told them to watch it with us they were not willing," said Kak, adding that the cops refused to tell them who had filed the complaint or what the problem was. "All they were willing to say was, 'hamare seniors ka order hai,' and till they had seen the film they could not allow us to go ahead," he said. > > > > (Source: Mumbai Mirror)> > > > > > ___________________________________________________________> > Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it> > now.> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________________________________ > The idiot box is no longer passe! > http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/TV/Default.aspx > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 17:38:31 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:38:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Police stops screening of Jashn-e-Azadi] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13df7c120708070508k4dd9764x977a04086d40bcec@mail.gmail.com> I am a Kashmiri Pandit myself so let me first clear a couple of things before we move to his movie or its screening/not screening. Kashmiri Pandits were branded as pro-establishement or Hindus and thus selectively killed and targetted.The fact that we were born as Hindus wasnt in our hands(and no apparent sin,I guess) and second that I wish to make it abundantly clear was that though we saw ourselves as Kashmiris who wanted to stay with India,but we were largely neutral,because we wanted to stay clear of trouble. The Aazadi which we are made to believe is a fight for freedom from India(partly true) was essentially a communal movement wherein targetting religious minorities was one of the objectives,which eventually they succeeded in.The slogan for independence was "Azadi ka matlab kya...La Illah la illahla).Tell me which Hindu even ones like me who are all for independence of Kashmir,would endorse that. Now whether the movie should be banned or not.Has it been allowed in the first place.Why doesnt Sanjay Kak like Ajay Raina or Ashoke Pandit get a censor certificate for the movie.Then no one can stop it.So no matter how good a driver you are if you are driving without a license,one day you are bound to get caught.So thats what happened.Sanjay was so over confident about his driving that he thought he would avert the law or maybe flout some of his good contacts when the need arises. Having said that I wish that everyone gets to see his movie.What he shows/dont shows is his right.No one can order him on what to show but then the basic underline in the movie is who are the protoganists.Esssentiallythe movie revolves around Yasin Malik(a known terrorist,a dreaded killer) which is another difference between the movies mentioned by you as against this one.His presence at the screening irked many especially a person whose relative Yasin Malik is believed to have killed. I am no patriot myself so i cannot answer on behalf of Indians but as a nationalist Kashmiri I do feel that it would have been better had Kak left Pandits alone in his movie rather than presenting statistics which were factually incorrect,probably presented mischeviously to add insult to injury. As one of one friends wrote to him,every coin has two sides and any coin with just one side is a counterfiet and ought to be rejected.Sanjay's responses or way of handling criticsm hasnt been exemplary.He wrote nasty mails to people who criticised his movie.One would expect better ways of handling from a mature man. On one hand Sanjay wants freedom of expression for his movie,yet his blog is moderated.Isnt that laughable.... Do see other points of view here http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com Maybe then you can choose for yourself. -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com On 8/7/07, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > 'Since I am neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a > Kashmirinationalist or a patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety > ofnationalims and patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to > be sentiments that attach to different configurations of territory. Ihave > tried for many years to work out a set of evaluative criteria bywhich > sentiments that attach to one configuration of territory can bejudged > against sentiments that attach to another configuration ofterritory. If you > give value to any sentiments that attach themselves toany bits of territory, > I cannot quite understand why or how you woulddeny other people their > sentiments to the bits of territory that theylay claim to. How can we call > one more valid than the other? I do nothave an answer to this question. Does > anyone else on this list have asatisfactory answer?' - Shuddha > > ................................................................................................ > > I will try to answer this question, > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or distant relatives come > to your house & start staying with you, they expect you to accomodate them > permanently, they expect you to do everything for them, they try to do away > with your wife's/mother's authority & establish their supremacy in the > kitchen. > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house & take refuge > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be liberal in this case? Will you not > try to protect the rights of your wife/mother? > Be honest & give me the reply! > > These guests are outsiders and you will definitely try to throw them out. > In a way you are showing narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. > Because that is not in your family's interest. > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the interest of your > country' (e.g killing terrorists in Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi > Muslims from Bengal or Assam.) > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist nor a patriot' then I > am sorry to say so, but you have no right to stay in my country! > > Vedavati > > > Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:06:29 +0530> From: shuddha at sarai.net> To: > reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Police stops screening > of Jashn-e-Azadi]> > Dear All,> > I have been following with interest the > thread that began a few days ago > on the Reader Listregarding the > interrupted (or should I say prevented) > screening of Sanjay Kak's > documentary film 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in Mumbai, > courtesy the Mumbai Police. It > appears from the actions of the Mumbai > Police that that the citizens of > Mumbai are more in need of protection > from various kinds of stimuli than > those of us who have happily sat > through more than one screening of the > said film in Delhi, and in > Srinagar without any harm being done to our > minds or bodies.> > I am not writing to defend the film here, because I > think a film, or any> work of art does not need a 'defence'. A film, or a > work of art, or any> instance of communication is not an accused in a > criminal court, we are> not attorneys, advocates and lawyers, a mailing list > is not a court. I> am more interested in trying to think through some of the > issues that> have been addressed in various postings.> > Those who have > called for a ban on the film, or have endorsed the> Mumabai Police's > actions, or have written angry mails protesting about> its screening > basically have the following arguments, and I will list> them all. Do > correct me if I miss any.> > 1. The film is one sided, it does not > (adquately) represent the point of> views of displaced Kashmiri Pandits.> > > 2. The film gives space to people that some of the correspondents on> this > list consider to be 'terrorists'.> > 3. The film is not patriotic or > nationalistic.> > I do not disagree with any of the above points. (though I > have a> qualified disagreement on point 3, to which I will come later). But > even> if all three points are agreed to, I still see no reason why the> > automatic response to them has to be a call for a ban. Or for a> > vilification of the filmmaker.> > Since it appears (or at least that is what > I have been given to> understand) that we live in a nominally free and open > cultural space,> there should be no problem at all for anyone to make films > that they> think best represents the position that they hold. Either we > agree that> this is the case, or we agree that your 'freedom of expression' > has to> stay within the narrow limits of what is permissible under the > world> view of Indian nationalism. In which event it does not remain freedom > of> expression any longer, rather it (the capacity to be expressive) turns> > automatically into a monopoly that only Indian nationalists can enjoy.> > In > any case, nothing stops, or has stopped till now, anyone from making> any > film that -> > a). adequately represents the points of view and experiences > of the> Kashmiri Pandit community> > b) gives adequate space and > consideration to those gentlemen in and out> of uniform who unleash terror > on the majority of the population of the> Kashmir valley> > c) that oozes > patriotism or nationalism from every frame> > (On this point I have a slight > qualification to make, it seems to me,> that there would be some, though not > by any means all, perhaps mainly> Kashmiri nationalists and patriots, who > would not be disturbed by> 'Jashn-e-Azadi'. So it is inaccurate to say that > the film has to be> rejected if you are a nationalist or a patriot. It all > depends on which> kind of patriot or nationalist you are.)> > Since I am > neither an Indian nationalist or patriot nor a Kashmiri> nationalist or a > patriot, I find it difficult to say which variety of> nationalims and > patriotism should be given more importance. Both seem to> be sentiments that > attach to different configurations of territory. I> have tried for many > years to work out a set of evaluative criteria by> which sentiments that > attach to one configuration of territory can be> judged against sentiments > that attach to another configuration of> territory. If you give value to any > sentiments that attach themselves to> any bits of territory, I cannot quite > understand why or how you would> deny other people their sentiments to the > bits of territory that they> lay claim to. How can we call one more valid > than the other? I do not> have an answer to this question. Does anyone else > on this list have a> satisfactory answer? Does anyone even know if a > satisfactory answer lies> within the realm of a theorectial or a practical > possibility.> > But this is a debate that we can continue on some other > occasion, at> least for now, let us return to the film that is exercising > everyone so.> > So, those who are so disturbed by 'Jashn-e-Azaadi', might > think about> how they can make their own film instead of trying to ensure > that one> that exists is canned. Similarly, those people in Kashmir, Iran, > the UK,> Indonesia, India, Egypt and Syria who stage spectacles calling for > the> assasination of Salman Rushdie, or Taslima Nasrin, or the authors of a> > batch of cartoons drawn in bad taste, might consider writing their own> > books, or drawing their own cartoons. Killing an author or banning a> film > or a book results in a net diminishing of cultural material.> Writing a book > to argue against one that exists, or making a film to> counter another point > of view, (even if jejunely) at least results in an> incremental addition to > the body of cultural material available in> society at any given time.> > > After all, Sanjay Kak, the maker of 'Jashn-e-Azadi', did not, as far as> I > recall, call for bans on documentary films that were considered to> give an > 'adequate' representation of Kashmiri Pandit experiences - like> 'Tell them > the tree they have planted has now grown' or 'And the world> remained > silent' . (In fact I do not remember any discussion of whether> such films > should be banned.) I also do not remember any obstructions by> angry slogan > shouting young men of films that have given more than> adequate > representation to the foot-soldiers (formal and informal)of the> Indian > state, engaged in fighting terror (and non-terrorist civic> action) with > terror in the Kashmir valley. Nor has anyone, to my> knowledge, asked for > feature films like 'Roja', 'Dil Se', 'Mission> Kashmir'. '16 December', > 'Fanaa', 'Sheen', 'Maa tujhey Salaam' (and I> could go on, because there is > an emerging sub-genre of the 'Kashmir'> film in the Bombay film industry) to > be banned - all of which are set in> Kashmir, more or less all of which are > explicitly sympathetic to the> Kashmiri Pandit point of view, all of which > ensure that 'militants' are> portrayed in a purely negative light, and all > of which are more than> adequate exemplars of Indian nationalism and > patriotism. Needless to> say, several of these films were critically well > received, granted> 'entertainment tax exemptions', awarded with state > honours and applauded> in the media. The chances of your film doing well if > you toe the Indian> state's line on Kashmir are quite high, so it would be > some amount of> dissimulation to suggest that films sympathetic to the > predicament of> Kashmiri Pandits, or generally supportive to the Indian > state's claim on> the territory of Jammu & Kashmir, are somehow marginal, > silenced,> censored, obscured expressions. An objective assessment and audit > of the> kind of films that have been made on Jammu and Kashmir over the > last> twenty odd years would show evidence quite to the contrary.> > If the > culture we all participate in (as partisans, protagonists,> spectators, > producers and bystangers) is so willing to accept the> presence, circulation > and adulation of one point of view, (the Indian> nationalist, explicitly pro > Kashmiri Pandit position on J&K) which in> fact has a dominance, a near > monopoly on the representation of the issue> of Jammu and Kashmir, at least > as far as the moving image in India is> concerned, why then, is it so > difficult for this cultural milieu to> tolerate the presence of one or two > or maybe three films that try to do> something else?> > A film is not a > bomb. A film is not an unsheathed sword. A film is an> argument in words and > images. If the dominant argument in words and> images have the lion's share > of attention, then what is wrong in another> kind of argument in words and > images making itself known. Or is there an> actual anxiety that the case of > the dominant argument is so flimsy that> the mere presence of one or two > films that act otherwise will blow their> cover?> > Remember, the post 1947 > history of Jammu and Kashmir is taught neither> in India, nor in Pakistan, > nor in Kashmir. In such a climate, it is very> easy for flimsy arguments to > rule the roost. In such a climate it also> becomes necessary for those who > live by those flimsy arguments to try> and stop anything else that happens, > by any means necessary. Such as> calling the Mumbai Police to stop the > screening of a film. I know that> similar things happen in Bangladesh or > Pakistan when documentary films> about the fate of the Ahmediya community > are sought to be screened.> > I remember having been present at more than > one screening of a film such> as 'Tell them the tree they have planted has > now grown' or having sat> through film after Bollywood film that bedecked > itself with the fake> blood of fake Kashmiris. I saw no reason to call the > police. I saw no> reason to raise slogans in or outside the auditorium, or > to try and> obstruct the possibility of a reasonable discussion. Did anyone > on> the list try and call the police, genuflect to the censor board, or > make> a noise, or try and obstruct a screening when any of these films were > shown?> > If those of you on this list who are endorsing obstructions to > the> screening of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' did not object to the screening of all> > those films that have entertained us with the agenda of the Indian> state, > then I think that it is only fair, reasonable and decent that you> either > let films like "Jashn-e-Azaadi' be screened, without interruption> or > obstruction or, as a logical corollary to your concern for the> sentiments > of those affected by the conflict in Kashmir, call for a> moratorium on any > form of expression, including your own, that takes any> stance (or even no > stance at all) on the issue of Kashmir. It may be> possible that different > kinds of people can find different nuances of an> impoverished and pared > down dignity in the ensuing silence.> > It will be more respectful than the > clamour of your words today.> > with regards,> > > Shuddha> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nishant wrote:> > > Police stops radical film on Kashmir > > > > > Disrupt screening of Jashn-e-Azadi at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan on suspicion that > the documentary may be provocative and inflammatory > > > > Mumbai police on > Friday disrupted the screening a radical film on Kashmir called > Jashn-e-Azadi on the suspicion that the feature-length documentary could be > "inflammatory and provocative." The 2-hour, 18-minute long documentary, > directed by Sanjay Kak, was just about to begin when cops barged into the > Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan at Prabhadevi and seized all the dvds. > > > > "We were > told that the documentary is provocative and inflammatory. Therefore we > requested the organisers to let us watch the movie before it was screened", > Deputy Commissioner of Police, D N Phadtare, told Mumbai Mirror. But getting > the cops to play censor was not acceptable to the show's organisers, Vikalp. > "We told them in that case it would not be possible to allow them to screen > the film and confiscated the DVDs," said Phadtare. > > > > Ironically, > Jashn-e-Azadi, which has already been screened in Bangalore and Delhi, > without anybody getting inflamed or provoked, explores the implications of > the struggle for Azadi in the Kashmir Valley. As the blog on documentary ( > http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com) says: In : In 2007 India celebrates the > 60th anniversary of it's Independence, this provocative and quietly > disturbing new film raises questions about freedom in Kashmir, and about the > degrees of freedom in India. > > > > When contacted director Sanjay Kak > said: "I've been holding a number of private screenings across the country > for filmmakers and other interested viewers to start a conversation about > the film and get feedback. The Osian film festival in Delhi was the first > and only public screening we've had. The screening today was in a private > property for a small group of invitees. Vikalp got a call in the morning > from the police asking for a copy of the film. When we landed at the venue > there was a battalion of cops and they asked us not to screen the film. When > we told them to watch it with us they were not willing," said Kak, adding > that the cops refused to tell them who had filed the complaint or what the > problem was. "All they were willing to say was, 'hamare seniors ka order > hai,' and till they had seen the film they could not allow us to go ahead," > he said. > > > > (Source: Mumbai Mirror)> > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________> > Yahoo! > Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it> > > now.> > http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ > > > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header.> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send > an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header.> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________________________________ > The idiot box is no longer passe! > http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/TV/Default.aspx > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From gabyvargasc at prodigy.net.mx Tue Aug 7 18:26:17 2007 From: gabyvargasc at prodigy.net.mx (Gabriela Vargas-Cetina) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:56:17 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz In-Reply-To: <47e122a70708061048g26986d6ct773482ae3bad9e97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Inder Salim, Thank you so much for this interesting comparison. I did not know anything about Habba Khaton but now I am compelled to find her work, because of your note. Sor Juana was a great poet and writer and if there is a comparable figure anywhere we all should read him or her. Gabriela Vargas-Cetina Merida, Mexico On 8/6/07 12:48 PM, "inder salim" wrote: > Habba Khatoon & Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz This is about 16th and 17 > century. After the full moon of Habba Khatoon alias Zooni, Sor Juana Ines de > la Cruz shone on the South American horizon nearly one century later. We don't > have detailed account of Habba Khatoon unlike Sor Juna whom we know how she > died and even at what time of which month and of what disease. That is > that, but what fascinates me here, is their similarity in many areas. > Both Habba and Juana come from a humble background, and both ended tragically. > Both were gifted poets with a deep love for music, though Sor Juana was well > read and knew science as well from the beginning, but both had no regular > schooling. Both were in love, and both were radical in thought and profoundly > protesting against the social decadence and other forms of human suffering. > To say the least, both were women, and beautiful. Sor Juana was not only a > poet but a philosopher, playwright, and prose writer. She was an illegitimate > and a lesbian, unlike Habba Khatoon who was simply the daughter of a peasant; > and in love with nature from the beginning. I said this because we don't have > an intensive record of her upbringing, adolescence and marriage. But I > am sure, the medieval rural of Maxico and Kashmir must have been > quite lyrical, because of which it was possible for daughters of > humble backgrounds to pick up the nuances of song making intrinsically. > The credit goes to the inherent strength in the folk music it self; and since > folk is non-translatable into any other form of expression, and here, any > attempt to compare the two great poets is almost insignificant. While Octavio > Paz won Nobel prize in 1990 for his monumental work on Sor Juana, our Kashmiri > Nightingale, for some Kashmiri brothers, is still not impressive enough to > qualify as a poet, even. Sor Juana was Catholic and a Nun in an autocratic, > theocratic, male dominated society, and when she pressed for the proper > education of girls she was forced to stop writing, which finally resulted in > the sale of her collection of 4000 books, musical instruments and everything > she identified with. That was the beginning of her quick end, hastened by the > Plauge in the city. On the contrary, Habba Khatoon was beaten by her first > husband and forced to abandon poetry, which dramatically caused her to > discover new love, a new lease of life as a creative poet in the court of King > Yousuf Shah Check. But she was soon out of favour when the Kashmiri Sultan was > killed by Mughal Emperor, Akbar the Great. That was the beginning of her > tragic end, too. A Habba Khatoon poem is the effortless song of a woman poet, > quite like Sor Juana's, but in a different context, perhaps. When I hear, ' > bei tschsai Zameen tai, tchi chook Asman, seers chook sar posh' the blue earth > flashes in front of my eyes. I see, the zameen ( the earth ) surrounded by > invisible air, being kissed by the very transparency it is surrounded with. A > deep kiss in its entirety, writing all the far and beyond, in 'a blue', we all > are familiar with. A great secret which we can see from a distant planet, but > can visualize and experience only from below, and hence a secret. This woman > poet was able to appropriate the whole of earth in a bid to proclaim 'love' > so overwhelmingly that even the sky looks smaller. The echo of such a thought > comes to us from an ancient Shiva Shakti thought but since that has turned > merely into a popular worship form of main stream Hindu religion, unlike the > word ' zameen' ( earth ) which gives us back our empirical pride and a grass > root belonging at the same time. I approach, and I withdraw: who but I could > find absence in the eyes, presence in what's far? This is sor Junana, > experiencing the meaning of visual so spontaneously. Here, I am a little > interested to see how the poet's quantum of thought weaves all the > possibility, with such a precision, and yet declares nothing, and hence so > secretive, so personal and so close to ones life, particularly a > woman'sŠ The most famous song in Kashmir by Haba Khatoon is her protest > against in-laws, who were perhaps pressing her for dowry. During one of > those days when she happened to break her water pitcher she gives a call > to her parents to come to her rescue and provide her with a new pitcher. "The > mother-in law grabbed me by my hair, which stung me more than the pangs of > death. I fell asleep on the supporting plank of the spinning wheel, and in > this way, the circular wheel got damaged. I cannot reconcile myself with the > atrocities of the inlaws, O! my parents, please come to my rescue." ( > translation by KN Dhar ) The song goes on and on. Poets are perhaps tailor > made to take the matters of dignity too seriously. Needless to say that woman > have suffered more than anybody else in the whole process of > civilization making. Children have suffered too, and here is how Haba > Khatoon expresses so lucidly in verses "My parents sent me to a distant > school for receiving tuition. The teacher there beat me with a tender stick > mercilessly and ignited a fire within me; No body's youth with child- like > innocence should go unrewarded like that of mine." ( translation by KN > Dhar) The manner in which Haba Khatoon spoke against the Child-abuse > is without a parallel in the whole of literature. Unpredictability, > the essential element of poetry pours out just a bud comes out a bough, with a > universal human heart of a mother. The popularity of the songs has given it a > status in the cultural history of Kashmir that no one can erase it from the > memory of people who are celebrating the songs of Haba Khatoon in the present, > even. Unfortunately, her creative being was cut short, more for her being > a woman than by the death of King Yousuf Shah Check. This is how > she expresses, perhaps in her last song. Tschi kaho watiyo mani marnay " > what will you gain by my death, O God.' One finds a similar echo in Sor > Juana's last inscription, title of a film also, la peor de todas ("I, The > Worst of All") Here, a Sor Juana poem translated in English: Silly, you > men-so very adept at wrongly faulting womankind, not seeing you're alone to > blame for faults you plant in woman's mind. After you've won by urgent > plea the right to tarnish her good name, you still expect her to behave-- you, > that coaxed her into shame. You batter her resistance down and then, all > righteousness, proclaim that feminine frivolity, not your persistence, is to > blame. When it comes to bravely posturing, your witlessness must take the > prize: you're the child that makes a bogeyman, and then recoils in fear and > cries. Presumptuous beyond belief, you'd have the woman you pursue be Thais > when you're courting her, Lucretia once she falls to you. For plain default > of common sense, could any action be so queer as oneself to cloud the > mirror, then complain that it's not clear? Whether you're favored or > disdained, nothing can leave you satisfied. You whimper if you're turned > away, you sneer if you've been gratified. With you, no woman can hope to > score; whichever way, she's bound to lose; spurning you, she's > ungrateful-- succumbing, you call her lewd. Your folly is always the > same: you apply a single rule to the one you accuse of looseness and the one > you brand as cruel. What happy mean could there be for the woman who catches > your eye, if, unresponsive, she offends, yet whose complaisance you > decry? Still, whether it's torment or anger-- and both ways you've yourselves > to blame-- God bless the woman who won't have you, no matter how loud you > complain. It's your persistent entreaties that change her from timid to > bold. Having made her thereby naughty, you would have her good as gold. So > where does the greater guilt lie for a passion that should not be: with the > man who pleads out of baseness or the woman debased by his plea? Or which is > more to be blamed-- though both will have cause for chagrin: the woman who > sins for money or the man who pays money to sin? So why are you men all so > stunned at the thought you're all guilty alike? Either like them for what > you've made them or make of them what you can like. If you'd give up pursuing > them, you'd discover, without a doubt, you've a stronger case to make against > those who seek you out. I well know what powerful arms you wield in pressing > for evil: your arrogance is allied with the world, the flesh, and the > devil! -- -- _________________________________________ reader-list: an > open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Tue Aug 7 19:24:02 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S Fatima) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <793345.6860.qm@web8409.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Vedavati I don't want to offend you, but your analogy sounds too childish to be taken seriously (although I don't mean to demean children by saying that!). The complex history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like that. Even if we could use this analogy, then, I think our house has been so huge and so resourceful that it didn't mind having a few guests from outside taking refuge in it. And they didn't come as guests - they came to do trade and business, just as your (and my) brethren and sistren go to America to becomes NRIs. Now, once these "outsiders" decided to call it their home, they are no longer outsiders (whether they are born here or came from outside). As a matter of fact, how can even you prove that you are an "insider". Just because you are a Hindu? Having said that, now let's talk about the guests taking over the house and asking the owners to leave. Yes, if they do so, it is wrong. (But remember, no one can claim to be the "original" resident of this house - its been too damn long to argue on that). So, you have no authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the country if we do not subscribe to the hollow words called Patriotism and Nationalism. I am not commenting on any specific case (such Sanjay Kak's film, which I haven't seen). But in general, I believe that the exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is a sorry affair, and if one has to find a long-term solution to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their original homes. But at the same time, the brutality suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the hands of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And if Kak's film (or anyone else) does take sides, then it is bound to lead to this kind of situation. Let us stop taking sides and come to the middle ground if need to resolve any of our conficts. S.Fatima --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > I will try to answer this question, > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or > distant relatives come to your house & start staying > with you, they expect you to accomodate them > permanently, they expect you to do everything for > them, they try to do away with your wife's/mother's > authority & establish their supremacy in the > kitchen. > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house & > take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be > liberal in this case? Will you not try to protect > the rights of your wife/mother? > Be honest & give me the reply! > > These guests are outsiders and you will definitely > try to throw them out. In a way you are showing > narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. > Because that is not in your family's interest. > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the > interest of your country' (e.g killing terrorists in > Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from > Bengal or Assam.) > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist > nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but you > have no right to stay in my country! > > Vedavati > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Aug 7 20:05:09 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 19:35:09 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Hosts in Vedavati's house Message-ID: <5af37bb0708070735q5f0f9479m19377aed32e763c4@mail.gmail.com> Dears lets try another simple supposition based on real life. suppose my ancestors were kashmiri pandits. they may have been there forever, or they may have come from elsewhere, or a combination of such families. at some point the guests arrive. and to the utter horror of some of us, some people from my family take a liking to their religion. being muslim for being brahmin. these muslim brahmin pandits are no guests, by any standard of guests that does not equally apply to the brahmin pandits themselves. they may live separately now, they may be ostracised, but are they not still family. y On 8/7/07, S Fatima wrote: > Dear Vedavati > I don't want to offend you, but your analogy sounds > too childish to be taken seriously (although I don't > mean to demean children by saying that!). The complex > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like that. > Even if we could use this analogy, then, I think our > house has been so huge and so resourceful that it > didn't mind having a few guests from outside taking > refuge in it. And they didn't come as guests - they > came to do trade and business, just as your (and my) > brethren and sistren go to America to becomes NRIs. > Now, once these "outsiders" decided to call it their > home, they are no longer outsiders (whether they are > born here or came from outside). As a matter of fact, > how can even you prove that you are an "insider". Just > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now let's talk about the guests > taking over the house and asking the owners to leave. > Yes, if they do so, it is wrong. (But remember, no one > can claim to be the "original" resident of this house > - its been too damn long to argue on that). So, you > have no authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the > country if we do not subscribe to the hollow words > called Patriotism and Nationalism. > > I am not commenting on any specific case (such Sanjay > Kak's film, which I haven't seen). But in general, I > believe that the exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is > a sorry affair, and if one has to find a long-term > solution to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the hands > of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And if Kak's > film (or anyone else) does take sides, then it is > bound to lead to this kind of situation. Let us stop > taking sides and come to the middle ground if need to > resolve any of our conficts. > > S.Fatima > > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or > > distant relatives come to your house & start staying > > with you, they expect you to accomodate them > > permanently, they expect you to do everything for > > them, they try to do away with your wife's/mother's > > authority & establish their supremacy in the > > kitchen. > > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house & > > take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be > > liberal in this case? Will you not try to protect > > the rights of your wife/mother? > > Be honest & give me the reply! > > > > These guests are outsiders and you will definitely > > try to throw them out. In a way you are showing > > narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. > > Because that is not in your family's interest. > > > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the > > interest of your country' (e.g killing terrorists in > > Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from > > Bengal or Assam.) > > > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist > > nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but you > > have no right to stay in my country! > > > > Vedavati > > > > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From machleetank at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 04:41:25 2007 From: machleetank at gmail.com (Jasmeen P) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 01:11:25 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Blank Noise: Excuse Me? Message-ID: Hello Blank Noise asks people to send in their list of the ridiculous,strange, bizzare, disgusting, funny, humiliating words that they have heard to describe their body while out on the streets. Was it MIRCHI? SAMOSA? BUTTERFLY? LOLITA? TAMATAR( TOMATOES)? LASSUN (GARLIC)? MALAI( CREAM)? This is an attempt to build the 'eve teasing' vocabulary through collective participation. Please email Blank Noise at blurtblanknoise at gmail.com, subject titled " EXCUSE ME?" Please email no later than the 14th of August. The results will be published on the blog with visual illustrations. Thanks! Jasmeen www.blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com -- ph: + 91 98868 40612 From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 04:51:52 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Hosts in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708070735q5f0f9479m19377aed32e763c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <753037.80731.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Vedavati ji, Akbar was more Indian than me;I am an NRI and will get dual citizenship soon.Akbar was a third generation Indian and lived his whole life in India. pur, khair chhoren yeh sub.This is kind of stating the obvious. Ye batayen,Aap itni naraaz kyu hain?What is the real reason for your anger?And please try to reply without mentioning Shuddha or anyone else.Of course,your anger is bigger than the reaction to any one persons opinion.I ask sincerely. regards Rahul --- yasir ~ wrote: > Dears > > lets try another simple supposition based on real > life. > suppose my ancestors were kashmiri pandits. > they may have been there forever, or they may have > come from elsewhere, > or a combination of such families. > at some point the guests arrive. > and to the utter horror of some of us, some people > from my family take > a liking to their religion. being muslim for being > brahmin. > these muslim brahmin pandits are no guests, by any > standard of guests > that does not equally apply to the brahmin pandits > themselves. > they may live separately now, they may be > ostracised, but are they not > still family. > > y > > > > On 8/7/07, S Fatima > wrote: > > Dear Vedavati > > I don't want to offend you, but your analogy > sounds > > too childish to be taken seriously (although I > don't > > mean to demean children by saying that!). The > complex > > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like > that. > > Even if we could use this analogy, then, I think > our > > house has been so huge and so resourceful that it > > didn't mind having a few guests from outside > taking > > refuge in it. And they didn't come as guests - > they > > came to do trade and business, just as your (and > my) > > brethren and sistren go to America to becomes > NRIs. > > Now, once these "outsiders" decided to call it > their > > home, they are no longer outsiders (whether they > are > > born here or came from outside). As a matter of > fact, > > how can even you prove that you are an "insider". > Just > > because you are a Hindu? > > > > Having said that, now let's talk about the guests > > taking over the house and asking the owners to > leave. > > Yes, if they do so, it is wrong. (But remember, no > one > > can claim to be the "original" resident of this > house > > - its been too damn long to argue on that). So, > you > > have no authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave > the > > country if we do not subscribe to the hollow words > > called Patriotism and Nationalism. > > > > I am not commenting on any specific case (such > Sanjay > > Kak's film, which I haven't seen). But in general, > I > > believe that the exodus of the pundits from > Kashmir is > > a sorry affair, and if one has to find a long-term > > solution to the Kashmir problem, it must involve > the > > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their > > original homes. But at the same time, the > brutality > > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the > hands > > of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And if > Kak's > > film (or anyone else) does take sides, then it is > > bound to lead to this kind of situation. Let us > stop > > taking sides and come to the middle ground if need > to > > resolve any of our conficts. > > > > S.Fatima > > > > > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends > or > > > distant relatives come to your house & start > staying > > > with you, they expect you to accomodate them > > > permanently, they expect you to do everything > for > > > them, they try to do away with your > wife's/mother's > > > authority & establish their supremacy in the > > > kitchen. > > > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house > & > > > take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford > to be > > > liberal in this case? Will you not try to > protect > > > the rights of your wife/mother? > > > Be honest & give me the reply! > > > > > > These guests are outsiders and you will > definitely > > > try to throw them out. In a way you are showing > > > narrowmindedness but you can't do without that. > > > Because that is not in your family's interest. > > > > > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > > > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in > the > > > interest of your country' (e.g killing > terrorists in > > > Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from > > > Bengal or Assam.) > > > > > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a > nationalist > > > nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but > you > > > have no right to stay in my country! > > > > > > Vedavati > > > > > > > > > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? > Delete none. Go to > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ From ysikand at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 08:52:45 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:52:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Interview with Maulana Kalbe Sadiq, India's Top Shia Cleric Message-ID: <48097acc0708072022j37ef3dfs1a33c8e80cab3468@mail.gmail.com> Maulana Kalbe Sadiq, one of India's leading Shia Muslim scholars, is the Vice-President of the All-India Muslim Personal law Board (AIMPLB). He has a Ph.D. in Arabic from Lucknow University and runs a chain of schools and colleges in Uttar Pradesh. In this interview with Yoginder Sikand, he talks about his vision for the Muslims of India and reflects on crucial international developments. Q: While being a religious scholar (alim), you are also engaged in promoting modern education among Muslims. What role do you feel the ulema should play in the field of education? A: I think one of the most crucial challenges facing the Muslims of India is that of education. We must make that one of our foremost priorities. There may be some ulema who do not recognize the importance of modern education, but, increasingly, the ulema, both Shia as well as Sunni, are realizing it. Imam Ali, the son-in-law of the Prophet, said that he who doesn't know about something, he becomes its enemy. Likewise, there may be some maulvis who know nothing about modern education or science and, therefore, oppose it. However, these are increasingly becoming a smaller minority. But on the other hand, this saying of Imam Ali also applies to those who have 'modern' knowledge but know nothing about religion, and so they also begin to oppose it or neglect it, thinking that it is a sign of 'backwardness'. Personally, I see myself as in between these two extremes. I feel that our survival depends critically on excellence in modern education. But I also stress the importance of religious knowledge. Through science and technology you can control the world, but true religion means control over oneself, one's soul. And so you find big scientists spending their lives inventing machines to destroy human beings because they have no faith in God. So, I keep stressing, what we need is both 'modern' as well as religious education. The Sachar Commission report has brought out the fact that Muslims are behind even Dalits in terms of education and in many other fields. Hence, my appeal to Muslims is, for God's sake, open your eyes. This time is not for building palatial mosques, but, instead, for using our resources for setting up schools, colleges, polytechnics and research institutes. I also say that much of what is being taught in the name of religion has nothing top do with true religion or spirituality. True religion inheres in values, not just rituals. But, unfortunately, much of what is imparted in the name of religious education is ritualism, without the foundational values of true religion. Q: What do you feel about the government's proposals for intervening in the madrasas in the name of 'reform'? A: Muslim opinion on this is divided. Some Muslims favour this and others oppose it. So, I can't really give any opinion on the matter. But the point is that merely installing two or three computers in a madrasa and teaching basic English and mathematics will not lead to any substantial change. Madrasas need to change their basic approach. They need to adopt modern ways of approaching a host of issues. We urgently need to exercise creative reflection (ijtihad) in order to meet contemporary challenges. Q: In the Jafari Shia school of jurisprudence, which you represent, ijtihad is allowed for, while many Sunni ulema argue to the contrary. What do you have to say about this? A: Yes, in our school ijtihad has always been open, so our leading clerics or mujtahids are able to creatively respond to contemporary issues through ijtihad. But even among Sunni scholars today many are calling for the 'gates of ijtihad' to be re-opened. This will probably happen soon, if not today, then tomorrow, because it is not possible to have a stagnant jurisprudence (fiqh) for a constantly and rapidly changing world. Q: In India today, a growing number of ulema are setting up 'modern' schools, which provide both 'modern' as well as Islamic education. How do you see this? A: I think it is a very positive development. However, many of these schools are of mediocre standard. A person should do what he or she is trained for or capable of. But many of the ulema who run these schools seek to tightly control them even though they do not have any 'modern' education themselves. This, I think, is wrong, and only results in poor standards. In my own case, I have been associated with the setting up of numerous schools and colleges, and even a medical college in Lucknow, but I have left the management of these institutions to a professional team and do not interfere in their day-to-day functioning. Unfortunately, many top-ranking mullahs who control institutions are victims of enormous egoism and that is why they want to treat their institutions like their own private properties. Q: Muslim education, in India and elsewhere, is characterized by an extreme dualism, between the ulema of the madrasas, on the one hand, and the 'modern' educated middle class, on the other hand. How can this dualism be bridged? A: Rather than term it as dualism, I would prefer to see this as representing two channels of education. Only if and when these two channels meet can our woeful educational conditions really change. At present, there is hardly any communication between the two groups, as a result of which there are great apprehensions, misgivings and misunderstandings on both sides. We must appreciate the good points in both systems of education and seek to bring them together. For this, too, we need to take recourse to ijtihad so that our approach, in the field of education, as elsewhere, is based on the ethical values of Islam, rather than on empty ritualism. Imam Ali told his son, Hazrat Muhammad bin Hanafiya, that when one goes to some other land one should not isolate oneself. He advised that one should abide by one's values and yet adopt the good things that one finds among the people one lives with. So, in the field of education, as in other fields, Muslims should take good things from others and there is nothing wrong with that. Q: What do you think the state should do for Muslim education? A: Muslims expect a lot from the government, but the government is so corrupt. We don't have real democracy in India. Real democracy means the protection of the rights of the minorities, not brute majoritarian rule. But, sadly, in India minorities are not given their due. But then, expecting that the government alone should shoulder the responsibility of solving Muslims' educational problems is asking for something that even God does not allow for. In the Holy Quran God says that He does not change the conditions of a people unless they make efforts to change these themselves. So, those Muslims who demand that the government should change its policies but are themselves unwilling to change or to do anything positive and constructive for the community are living in a fool's paradise. In other words, Muslims have to take the initiative themselves, while, of course, the government also has to abide by its duties. Unless Muslims themselves make efforts to promote education in the community nothing is going to change. Q: What role do you feel the ulema could or should play in promoting inter-sectarian and inter-communal harmony in India? A: I think that in this regard their first responsibility is to refrain from inciting Muslims to take to violence under any condition. They must also seek to promote dialogue and unity between the different Muslim sects. In this they must focus on the things that the different Muslim sects share in common—which, if I have to quantify it, would be over 97%--and refrain from using the 3% things on which they differ in order to divide them. As for inter-religious dialogue, I think the Muslim ulema and religious scholars from other religious traditions need to take it up with great seriousness and urgency. This is the only way to solve inter-community disputes. I have read about other religions and have come to the conclusion that while they differ in matters of ritual, if one goes to their core and studies them in-depth, one finds that many of them share the same spiritual basis. We need to build on that shared spirituality. Q: What efforts are being made to promote inter-sectarian dialogue, especially between Shias and Sunnis? A: Although this is very important, in India there are no organized efforts to promote inter-sectarian dialogue between the ulema of different sects. I think this is really very unfortunate. However, despite this, the demand for dialogue and unity is being voiced from various quarters, although some extremist, false mullahs might oppose this. In India, groups like the Jamaat-e Islami, the All-India Muslim Personal law Board and the Milli Council have repeatedly stressed the need for unity between the different Muslim sects. Q: What about efforts to promote Shia-Sunni dialogue in other countries? A: In Pakistan, a Deobandi scholar, Maulana Ishad Madani, recently challenged anyone who can justify the denial of the need for Sunni-Shia dialogue. A leading Indian Deobandi scholar, Maulana Khalid Saifullah Rahmani, recently wrote a wonderful article stressing the need for Shia-Sunni unity and dialogue. In Iran several efforts are being made in this regard. For instance, every year the Iranian government celebrates the 'Unity Week' (hafta-e wahdat), and invites Sunni and Shia ulema and activists from different countries to participate together and to stress Muslim unity. Q: But some hardliner Sunnis would argue that this is not a sincere effort and would claim that this is a 'pretence', referring to the Shia notion of taqiyya or dissimulation. A: Let these critics say what they want. But I know that the government of Iran is indeed serious about this. After all, in Iran, where Shias are an overwhelming majority and Sunnis a small minority, there is no Shia-Sunni problem. Likewise, in Iraq, where Shias account for 65% of the population, although fringe groups like Al-Qaeda are targeting Shias and their holy sites, the Iraqi Shia religious leadership has constantly warned the Shias against falling into the American trap by retaliating against the Sunnis. They have stressed the need for Iraqi Shias and Sunnis to be united and stand up against the American occupying forces. This is surely a sign of a very great and mature leadership. America is trying to set Sunnis and Shias against each other in Iraq and elsewhere, and Muslims should see through this sinister game. Q: What role has the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board, of which you are the Vice-President, played in promoting Shia-Sunni dialogue? A: The issue of Shia-Sunni dialogue is not within the purview of the Board, whose focus is only the 1937 Shariat Application Act. However, the fact that Shias and Sunnis have representatives on the Board is itself of considerable significance. But, still, I do feel the need for an organized forum here in India, as well as elsewhere, to bring the ulema of the different Muslim sects together. We should move away from the past and think of our common future. It is pointless talking about what happened between Shias and Sunis in the past. What's happened has happened, and that we cannot change. But we can build a better common future if we work together. Instead of thinking of the welfare of just our own sects, we should think in terms of general Muslim welfare and interests. Q: In Lucknow, where you live and work, there have been cases of conflict between Shias and Sunnis. What role have local Shia and Sunni ulema played in defusing this tension? Do they visit each other's institutions and madrasas to exchange views? A: There is a tremendous communication gap between the ulema of the different Muslim sects here. I think I must be one of the only ulema in Lucknow who visit the institutions of other sects. I have visited the Nadwat ul-Ulema, a leading Sunni madrasa in Lucknow, several times and have interacted with students and teachers there in a very friendly atmosphere. I have visited another major Sunni madrasa in Uttar Pradesh, the Madrasat ul-Islah in Sarai Mir, in Azamgarh, a couple of times. I was also invited to the Ahl-e Hadith mosque in Malerkotla, Punjab, where I delivered three lectures, which were well received. I have good contacts with leading Sunni ulema. Q: Some extreme anti-Shia groups, such as some official Saudi Wahhabi ulema, have gone to the extent of claiming that Shias are non-Muslims. How do statements like these impact on efforts to promote Shia-Sunni dialogue and unity? A: The Saudi government is a slave of the United States. It instigates these mullahs to issue such fatwas against the Shias in order to protect its own interests as well as that of America. Some Saudi mullahs have declared that Muslim holy shrines in Iran and Iraq, which the Shias particularly revere, should be bombed. Likewise, Tom Tancredo, the US Republican Party's presidential hopeful, recently announced that America should, if need be, bomb the Muslim shrines in Makkah and Madinah, which all Muslims hold in great regard. You can see how the perverted logic of both is the same. I would appeal to all Muslims, Sunnis as well as Shias, to see through this game and not fall into efforts to divide them. Q: In your speeches, you constantly refer to the need for the ulema to be more socially engaged. You yourself are engaged in a number of community projects, especially in the field of education. What role do you envisage for the ulema in this regard? A: The Holy Quran tells us to leave aside those things that don't give any benefit to people. So, we need to develop a socially engaged understanding of Islam that enables us to help people in concrete ways. Otherwise, the youth will ask us why we are building fancy mosques but doing nothing for the poor, when the essence of Islam is to help those in need. This means that the ulema must be more socially engaged than they presently are.. They must come out of their mosques, madrasas and khanqahs and move among the masses, understand their economic and social problems and seek to solve them in practical terms. They must raise their voice against oppression, no matter what the religion of the oppressor is. However, unfortunately, most ulema have forgotten this responsibility and restrict themselves to leading prayers and giving fatwas. Q: You, along with some associates, have recently taken over the management of the Urdu daily Aag. What do you have to say about the Indian Muslim media, particularly in the light of your own experiences in this field? A: The Indian Muslim media is not very effective. There is no electronic Muslim media, besides one or two religious channels. The Urdu print media leaves much to be desired. Urdu papers tend to focus on emotional issues, ignoring positive news and developments. If many of our Urdu editors are ignorant and not well-educated, what else can you expect? Now this sort of emotional rhetoric can, of course, boost their sales but it will have a very negative impact on the future Muslim generations. After all, our problems can be solved only through dialogue and wisdom, not through emotional sloganeering. Further, much of the Muslim media is obsessed with the past, wallowing in the past Muslim glory. Through Aag, we want to steer a new course in Urdu journalism, focusing more on positive and constructive issues, and staying clearly away from empty emotionalism. In a few months' time since we took over Aag, it has become the single largest circulated Urdu paper in Lucknow and we hope to launch a Delhi edition soon, too. Q: You yourself have studied in leading madrasas in Lucknow, the Madrasat ul-Waizin and the Madrasa Nazmiya. How do you see the increasing attacks on madrasas in the media today? A: I can say with full confidence that no madrasa in India, whether Shia or Sunni, is engaged in providing any sort of terrorist training. There are indeed some in Pakistan that are doing this, but this does not apply to India at all. I think this talk of Indian madrasas being allegedly engaged in promoting terrorism has been deliberately engineered by communal parties and outfits. These groups do not want to see the truth, so even if we try to explain the reality of the madrasas to them, they will not listen or cease their anti-madrasa propaganda. I think they are deliberately doing this so that Muslims devote all their attention to defending madrasas, thus leaving them no breathing space to focus on modern education. It is a means, actually, to perpetuate Muslim educational marginalisation. Our madrasas are open for all to see. They impart the message of humanity, not terrorism. Anyone can come to the madrasas and see this for oneself. And in the case of the Shia madrasas, I can confidently say that we give equal stress on worship of God and the service of God's creatures. Shias believe that you cannot, under any condition, give up your own life unless it is to save the life of an innocent person, irrespective of her or his religion. Q: What do you have to say about the demonisation of madrasas in the Western media? A: This is part of the larger Western design to demonise Islam. The West needs an enemy to survive, to seek an excuse for its imperialistic offensives. And if such an enemy does not really exist, it has to conjure up a ghost and use it to scare people. So, following the collapse of communism, the West and Zionist forces, desperately searching for an enemy, decided to project Muslims as the new foe. They began claiming that Islam presents a danger to the world and in this way sought to create hatred against Islam and its adherents. And while their are terrorists among Christians, Jews and Hindus as well, the media only refers to Muslims when it talks of terrorism. This is part of a well-planned strategy. We must be dispassionate when discussing the issue of violence in many Muslim countries. The West needs to look at the causes of this unrest. Address and remove the basic causes if you are seriously interested in solving the problem. In fact, it is primarily the West, and its client state, Israel, that have created conditions for this unrest. The oppression and denial of the rights of the Palestinians, the invasion of Iraq and so on—all these have naturally created conditions of unrest among Muslims, who wish to retaliate. After all, even if you pinch a little ant, it seeks to defend itself by biting back. Q: Since you refer to Iraq, what are your views about sectarian conflicts raging there, between Shias and Sunnis? A: This sort of thing never existed in Iraq before the American invasion. There was never any sort of terrorism there before the Americans invaded. My mother was from Iraq and I know the country and its people well. There was never any Shia-Sunni problem in Iraq, and even though Shias are in a majority there relations between Shia and Sunni Iraqis were cordial. It is true that Saddam persecuted Shia leaders and arranged for many of them to be killed, but he also persecuted many Sunnis and caused their deaths, too. Before the Americans invaded, Iraqis rarely thought of themselves as Shias and Sunnis or as rivals on the basis of sect. There was never any communal riot there. All this started and flared up after the Americans invaded Iraq in the name of bringing 'peace' and 'democracy' to that country. And I think the Americans are deliberately trying to stoke sectarian rivalry in Iraq and prolong the civil war so that they can divide and rule. Q: Some Muslims argue that America is anti-Islam or anti-Muslim, and see its invasion of Iraq, among other developments, as proof of this. Do you agree? A: One has to distinguish between the American people and the current American government. I am not saying that all Americans are anti-Islam. This is not true. However, the Bush administration certainly is anti-Islam. This owes, in large measure, to the power of the Zionist lobby in America. Pro-Zionist Jews control large banks, many industries and much of the media in America, and if they leave America, the country will collapse. And it is this lobby, in addition to the extreme right-wing Christian lobby, that is behind the clearly anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim policies of the Bush government. On the other hand, I must also say that many Americans are indeed open-minded. However, they are easily swayed by the media, and the dominant Western media, as I mentioned earlier, has a vested interest in whipping up anti-Muslim hatred. I strongly believe that if we are able to reach out to the American people with the truth, many of them will indeed listen to us and will also agree with us. Q: There is much talk now of America allegedly planning to attack Iran. What do you think the Iranian, or general Shia, response would be if this happens? A: I don't think the Americans will be so foolish. Hizbullah taught the Americans and the American-backed Israeli army a fitting lesson in the defeat it inflicted on the Israelis in Lebanon. The Shias are a different people. We are not terrorists but we will not run away if challenged. The Americans managed to get some traitors in Iraq to collaborate with them. The history of Iraq is full of tales of such betrayal and intrigue. But in Iran things are very different. All Iranians, even those who have differences with the regime, will solidly unite to oppose any American aggression. And the price of an American attack will be borne not just by America but also by its client regime, Israel. From machleetank at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 04:41:25 2007 From: machleetank at gmail.com (Jasmeen P) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 01:11:25 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Blank Noise: Excuse Me? Message-ID: Hello Blank Noise asks people to send in their list of the ridiculous,strange, bizzare, disgusting, funny, humiliating words that they have heard to describe their body while out on the streets. Was it MIRCHI? SAMOSA? BUTTERFLY? LOLITA? TAMATAR( TOMATOES)? LASSUN (GARLIC)? MALAI( CREAM)? This is an attempt to build the 'eve teasing' vocabulary through collective participation. Please email Blank Noise at blurtblanknoise at gmail.com, subject titled " EXCUSE ME?" Please email no later than the 14th of August. The results will be published on the blog with visual illustrations. Thanks! Jasmeen www.blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com -- ph: + 91 98868 40612 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mrsg at vsnl.com Wed Aug 8 09:27:53 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:27:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 5th posting: Kashmir's only poster boy References: <2ad82fd30708030429q4dc482fex8a09c5d17efe66a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008d01c7d972$892ceb30$a5ba41db@MRAY> Indian film is banned in Kashmir, in Manipur and may be at other places in India. Have you ever seen any so-called human rights group, the so-called human rights activists and even the bollywood firebands busy to release the criminal Sanjay Dutt, raising voices against this? No they will never. This is the great Indian secular-human rights show. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shahnawaz Khan" To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: [Reader-list] 5th posting: Kashmir's only poster boy > *Kashmir's only poster boy* > > > Not only in Srinagar but in whole of Kashmir Valley with a population of > six > million, Neelam is the only functional Cinema hall. With people having > lost > interest in cinema halls and there has been a considerable fall in the > number of cine-goers since 1990, the management of Neelam is struggling > hard > to make their presence felt within the city limits. > > > > Putting up posters of the coming film is a small task in other places, but > it is a daunting job in Srinagar. The cinema is unable to pay for > advertisements in the local papers. > > > > In order to boost their business and to announce about the latest shows or > new releases of Bollywood films, pasting film posters in the city's space > is > really a challenging task. Prior to insurgency each cinema hall used to > have > few people on the payrolls for the job of pasting posters in and outside > the > city. > > > > For Neelam Cinema today Ashraf is the only poster boy. A man in late > twenties, Ashraf was employed as a sweeper in the Cinema hall after it was > thrown open in 1997. > > However, Ashraf is not comfortable with the job of pasting the film > posters > on the city's walls and intersections. Since there is a ban on cinema > halls, > he fears the backlash from the people who ordered the ban. > > > > "See ours is the only cinema hall functional in the city. That way we > have > defied the diktat. It is really a challenging job to paste a poster in > the > old town or locality. Anyone can create trouble anytime," said Ashraf. > > > > Though Ashraf is reluctant to talk about his job of pasting the posters > and > feels that it would land him up in trouble. > > "See I am a poor man and do this for making two ends of my family meet. > While pasting posters, my effort remains that no one should see me," he > said. > > > > There have been instances when he was rebuked by some youth for pasting > posters. Even some posters were torn from the walls the moment he pasted > it. > > > > "I don't want to indulge in any fight with anyone. One day some guys told > me > that I am promoting obscenity and Allah will not spare me," recalls > Ashraf. > > > > The management hires an auto rickshaw and always sends another person with > Ashraf, while he pastes the posters. Most of the posters are being pasted > in > high security zones, where there is constant presence of army and > para-military forces. > > > > "Mostly I paste the posters in Badmibagh cantonment area and outside our > own > Cinema hall, where there is lesser movement of people," Ashraf said. > > > > After the opening of cinema hall the biggest challenge with the owners was > how to advertise about the show and timings. Initially they used to buy > the > space in the newspapers for advertising new releases and show timings but > poor response from the people forced them to change their modus operendi. > > > > "We could not afford to buy the space in newspapers, therefore we were > forced to sent our guys to paste the posters on the street walls," said > Mohammed Ayub, the project operator at Neelam cinema hall. > > > > Pasting of film posters undergo a censorship when it comes to Kashmir and > the censorship lies with the poster boy. Ashraf in consultation with the > cinema management often artfully blacken the bold exposures by women > celebrities on these posters. The glaring example of censorship was > evident > in the month of June from a bold exposure of celebrity showcasing the > film, > "LOU- Ek Ehsaas". > > > > "I remember when I was asked to paste the posters of Ahsaas, I thought > that > it will not go well with the people over here. I bought a black ink marker > from the stationary shop and artfully tried to hide the breasts and naked > legs of the star by drawing lines on her body. After that it looked as if > she was wearing a net," said Ashraf. > > "You have to do it, it you want to continue with it," he adds. > > > > In the Srinagar city today you won't come across bigger than life size > images of celebrities on the film posters nor would find any full size > poster pasted on the wall. What usually is seen the torn away posters on > the > walls. > > > > Noor Mohammed, the ticket seller and the oldest employee of the Neelam > cinema says that in past tongas (horse driven carts) were hired and then > decorated with the film posters so as to sent it inside the Srinagar city > and outskirts for announcing the show and timings. > > He misses the fervour and the presences of large film size posters in > every > nook and corner of the city. > > > > Are you a publisher interested in indepth news features from Kashmir? > > Visit www.kashmirnewz.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From vrjogi at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 09:53:14 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 04:23:14 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house Message-ID: it may appear childish but i can't help it. it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not with its true essence, i am talking about typical indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists when you are not at the receiving end. my husband being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders, filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to visit those camps), two of his best friends were gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by the latter for being members of rss. (please don't say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the rss members.) and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus should also start killing members of muslim league because they partitioned our country. all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on nationalism imagine yourself in the group of kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants who were advised by mahatma to go back to their motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in pakistan. and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody principles vedavati > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to demean children by saying that!). The complex> history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful that it> didn't mind having a few guests from outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come as guests - they> came to do trade and business, just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can even you prove that you are an "insider". Just> because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now let's talk about the guests> taking over the house and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so, it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be the "original" resident of this house> - its been too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the> re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their> original homes. But at the same time, the brutality> suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides, then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation. Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends or> > distant relatives come to your house & start staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate them> > permanently, they expect you to do everything for> > them, they try to do away with your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do without that.> > Because that is not in your family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing everything which is in the> > interest of your country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register _________________________________________________________________ Sign in and get updated with all the action! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default From evignesh at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 11:38:25 2007 From: evignesh at gmail.com (P. Vigneswara Ilavarasan) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:38:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Job Notice - Transcriber / transcriptionist In-Reply-To: <39e1148c0708072307m34851523q5a7a2169007054ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <39e1148c0708072307m34851523q5a7a2169007054ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39e1148c0708072308j33c00771s24d91ea7060d0d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Colleague: For a research project on 'IPR in Pharmaceutical Industry in India', we are looking for a transcriptionist / transcriber. Audio data is in English and needs to be converted into text / Word docuement. The work (22 hours) has to be done onsite (Malviya Nagar, New Delhi). Previous experience is desirable. Candidates with no experience but has short hand experience can also apply. Please send your resume to 'shalini at suviinc.org' (www.suviinc.org) There is no deadline for applying as there will be future opportunities. We would be grateful, if this notice is widely circulated. Thanking you, Regards, Vignesh. http://web.iitd.ac.in/~vignesh From pkray11 at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 12:37:33 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 00:07:33 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] a panel discussion on Retails Message-ID: <98f331e00708080007g6763dc52xccbf1622a61a9742@mail.gmail.com> Anveshan is being launched as a citizen's forum to debate and discuss public policy issues and create awareness within society. We intend to organize panel discussions, seminars, conferences and roundtables on issues, which matter to the citizens of Delhi, involving academics, experts, policy makers and stakeholders. As our first programme we are organizing a panel discussion on: "Is it time for Mega Retailers and Supermarkets in Indian Cities?" We invite you to attend this panel discussion. The schedule is given below: Date: Saturday, 11th August, 2007 Time: 4.30 p.m. Venue: Muktadhara Auditorium, 18-19, Bhai Vir Singh Marg, New Delhi (near Gole Market) We would be grateful if you kindly attend the same. Regards, Sincerely Yours, Abhay Kumar on behalf of Anveshan -- Dr. Abhay Kumar, Contact no. 09868739792 From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 8 12:56:03 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S Fatima) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <830529.49927.qm@web8409.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Vedavati I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I would love to engage in a debate with you if we both are interested in solutions. I feel that being patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is not the only solution. Being tolerant and compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be more preferable. I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain of all those who have been affected by the violence, hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims. Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven historically), and had to migrate to escape the violence. You may go and see the plight of many migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use this forum for a healthy debate rather than a stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words that may have hurt you.) S.F. --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > it may appear childish but i can't help it. > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not > with its true essence, i am talking about typical > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders, > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to > visit those camps), two of his best friends were > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the > rss members.) > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus > should also start killing members of muslim league > because they partitioned our country. > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in > pakistan. > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody > principles > > vedavati > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From: > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to > demean children by saying that!). The complex> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come > as guests - they> came to do trade and business, > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so, > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be > the "original" resident of this house> - its been > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides, > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation. > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> > > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate > them> > permanently, they expect you to do > everything for> > them, they try to do away with > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do > without that.> > Because that is not in your > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing > everything which is in the> > interest of your > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 16:42:35 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 04:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., official Message-ID: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pakistan Govt., official - by Kshmendra Kaul Pakistan's Parliamentary Secretary for Defence has stated that the Kashmir issue will not be resolved on the table. He has suggested that free entry should be allowed to the Jihadis into Kashmir and that kind of facilitation would resolve the Kashmir issue in one month. Major (Rtd.) Syed Tanveer Hussain made these comments during a foreign policy debate on Aug 7, 2007 in the National Assembly of Pakistan. Tanveer Hussain also stated during the course of the debate that the CIA was orchestrating the slaying of Chinese nationals in Pakistan. He called for raising the slogan of Jihad to take revenge against United States of America. This was reported by "The News" which is a part of the Jang Group of Pakistan. The Group also runs the GEO network of TV stations. The comments by Tanveer Hussain will command special attention because of his position as the top-ranking bureaucrat in Pakistan's Ministry of Defence. With an Army General as the ruler of Pakistan, the significance of the opinion expressed by such a highly placed official in the Ministry of Defence will not be ignored. The comments by Tanveer Hussain, are a complete negation of the professed stance of the Govt of Pakistan on what routes it declares it will follow for the betterment of relations with India and in the resolution of "issues" between the two countries. Perhaps the United States of America also would be caught completely off-guard by an official of Govt. of Pakistan expressing such views and especially the calling for Jihad against the USA. It is extremely unlikely that Pakistan's Parliamentary Secretary of Defence would have ventured or dared to make such comments without the expressed approval of Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and certainly not without the permission of General Musharraf. How India and USA will react, remains to be seen. __________________________________________________________ Based on report from http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=27165 --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 17:14:42 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 04:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] DAWN newspaper confirms call given for Jihad against India and USA by Pakistan Govt., official Message-ID: <706743.48028.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> DAWN newspaper confirms call given for Jihad against India and USA by Pakistan Govt., official A report by Amir Wasim in DAWN newspaper of Pakistan confirms that a call was given for Jihad against India and USA in Pakistan's National Assembly by Pakistan's Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Major (Retd) Tanveer Hussain Syed Excerpt from the report: “Recognising Taliban and launching a jihad is the only way to take revenge,” said Parliamentary Secretary for Defence Maj (retd) Tanveer Hussain Syed while taking part in the debate on the foreign policy “with particular reference to recent statements of some US presidential candidates, US civil nuclear treaty with India, threat of military intervention in Pakistan, the country’s role in war against terror and the improper conditions in the US legislation for aid to Pakistan.” He alleged that the US and India wanted to take control of Kashmir to keep a check on China. The parliamentary secretary also called for sending “jihadis” to Kashmir because, according to him, Pakistan would never be able to get Kashmir through negotiations. He claimed that through jihad, Pakistan could get Kashmir within six months. Major Tanveer also alleged that the CIA, RAW and Khad were behind the killings of Chinese nationals in Pakistan. “There is a need for revenge and there is only one way to do it, Jihad, Jihad and Jihad,” he concluded. Complete report at http://www.dawn.com/2007/08/08/top1.htm Kshmendra Kaul --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From ratishn at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 18:16:27 2007 From: ratishn at gmail.com (Ratish Nanda) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:16:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] River Yamuna Yamuna Jiye Abhiyan Message-ID: Mr Manoj Misra has been persistently fighting with the powers that be on the issue of construction on the river bed - they have just started a blog - i think it will be useful to connect their info to members on this list. The link is www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com -- Ananda -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com -- Ratish Nanda Conservation Architect 1559, Sector B, Pocket 1 Vasant Kunj New Delhi 110070 INDIA From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 22:51:40 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to police action against Jashn-e - Azadi In-Reply-To: <46B9EA96.2000702@sarai.net> Message-ID: <740283.3924.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha While internet does provide an alternative platform for showing/watching what the moral police does not allow us to show/watch, is it yet an alternative to a real screening? The screening of documentary films itself is a limited and elite practice, the downloading of hi-def video (of large films) would be an even more elusive thing for most people (in our midst). Will it serve the purpose of the film. Will it silence the Kashmiri pundits who are against the film? The censor/govt. is not against an individual watching a film, they are against the social practice of watching a film. And if they want to, very soon they'll control the Youtubes and the Vuzes too. I don't know why, but I get a feeling that we are all skirting the real issue here. We are continuously defending our right to show/watch a film, and even seeking technological solutions to beat the censors. But no one is interested in a dialogue with the section of people who have a problem with the film. Why do we insist on watching the film only "amongst ourselves", safe and secure from those who don't like us. Isn't it like being high-tech ostriches. Yousuf --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear all, > > This is in response to Saba, Shaina and Anjali and > Jayshankar and > Jabeen's mail. I agree with Jabeen that the ALF > comments should be > endorsed by Films for Freedom. > > I also agree with the need expressed by everyone > else for creative ways > of circumventing interrupted and prevented > screenings, and to queer the > whole debate about what a public can be understood > as being. > > Shaina wrote: > > > > I wonder what would have happened if there were no > DVD's in question. > > No hard drive either. just an internet connection > (and a cached film) -- > > what would the cops do...? > > we would need to know IT act and cyber laws better > ...(maybe not) but im > > willing to argue that its not a crime to make a > presentation to an audience > > pulling out some material from the internet. > (where the film can legally > > reside, away from national boundaries and > identities) > > > > > This is a very interesting thought and I think it is > well worth a try. > > One excellent place to upload 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' or > any such film in the > future which might face such difficulties is - > Azureus and its web > platform - Vuze > > http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ > http://www.vuze.com > http://www.vuze.com/content/FeaturedContent.html > > Think of this as the 'Youtube' of full length, high > quality, feature > films, experimental films and documentaries and > other video entitities. > > Vuze has an excellent 'Documentaries' selection > freely available for > download (see under 'Categories') > > All a filmmaker needs to do is to register (as you > would in Flickr or > any such service) and upload their content over a > high bandwidth > connection, with 'standard definition' or 'high > definition' content > (the site has excellent 'how tos') and you are on. > Anyone can download > any film. I regularly download more than two hour > long films from this > site and this is done easily and without problems > (you have to download > the latest version of 'Vuze/Azureus' as your p2p > client). > > Imagine, 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' or any such film - > available on a good, > trustworthy space, safe and secure from censor > boards and the Mumbai > Police or any self righteous busybodies, and > hundreds, maybe thousands > of people hitting 'download' in Mumbai, or anywhere, > and showing the > film to small groups of people off their computers > and or laptops. There > could be small, mobile, 'guerrila' screenings if you > like. Involve > students, volunteers, anyone. Announce screening > days, spread the > message through mobiles and mailing lists, and your > 'public' expands by > a factor of who knows what. > > And the public-private partnership of the censorious > can sit and twiddle > their thumbs. > > It is possible. 14th and 15th August are coming, > they are celebrated or > mourned (as you like) across the subcontinent as the > day that the south > asian landmass embraced in different ways the > albatross of the nation > state. Perhas this would be as good an occasion as > any to celebrate a > different kind of sovereignty - a mobile republic(s) > of moving images. > > What about a dispersed - upload-download-screening > party of lots of > indedependent documentaries, with perhaps a special > dispersed screening > of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > > That could be a real Jashn, and it's the kind of > Azaadi I enjoy and endorse > > best > > Shuddha > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:54:23 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:54:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to police action against Jashn-e - Azadi In-Reply-To: <740283.3924.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <46B9EA96.2000702@sarai.net> <740283.3924.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708082124o16ef7b68t13b5263dc15a888e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shudda and Yusuf, While Shudda hasnt cared to reply to my view on screening/non screening of Jashn-e-Aazadi..for unknown reasons,Yusuf let me make it clear Kashmiri Pandits are not against the screening,if it was so one just needed to file a complaint with Censor board and that would have been the end of the story. Yes Pandits wont be silenced,for we have as much right to freedom of speech as anyone else has unless you think otherwise.We oppose the movie not because what Kak shows.Thats his choice.He can back Yasin Malik or Osama bin Laden or Prabhakaran for that matter. That he has lied about the numbers of Pandits killed and forced to flee is our problem.That he has appropriated content is our problem.He could have simply ignored but rubbing salt to our wounds isnt gentlemanly. That he is a supporter of Azadi is no sin,but that he overtly or covertly supports terrorists as Yasin Malik and shows them as Robin Hoods(and says they meet PM,as if it makes it legitimate and absolves them of all sins,even Prabhakaran met Rajiv Gandhi) is our problem. As a Kashmiri I have another issue,is Yasin Malik the only leader among separatists?Why he alone was the pivot/central character (yes Azam and Geelani were shown but compare their presence to Yasin's).We have always opposed Yasin Malik because he killed innocent human beings.So it is just that he happens to be Kak's hero is a mere coincidence. So Suddha,while I await your comments/reply....Yusuf it is better to engage Pandits into a meaningful discussion rather than try and brush them under the carpet and find stealth ways of screening/watching the movie. Regards Rashneek On 8/8/07, Yousuf wrote: > > Dear Shuddha > While internet does provide an alternative platform > for showing/watching what the moral police does not > allow us to show/watch, is it yet an alternative to a > real screening? The screening of documentary films > itself is a limited and elite practice, the > downloading of hi-def video (of large films) would be > an even more elusive thing for most people (in our > midst). Will it serve the purpose of the film. Will it > silence the Kashmiri pundits who are against the film? > > > The censor/govt. is not against an individual watching > a film, they are against the social practice of > watching a film. And if they want to, very soon > they'll control the Youtubes and the Vuzes too. I > don't know why, but I get a feeling that we are all > skirting the real issue here. We are continuously > defending our right to show/watch a film, and even > seeking technological solutions to beat the censors. > But no one is interested in a dialogue with the > section of people who have a problem with the film. > Why do we insist on watching the film only "amongst > ourselves", safe and secure from those who don't like > us. Isn't it like being high-tech ostriches. > > Yousuf > > > > > --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > This is in response to Saba, Shaina and Anjali and > > Jayshankar and > > Jabeen's mail. I agree with Jabeen that the ALF > > comments should be > > endorsed by Films for Freedom. > > > > I also agree with the need expressed by everyone > > else for creative ways > > of circumventing interrupted and prevented > > screenings, and to queer the > > whole debate about what a public can be understood > > as being. > > > > Shaina wrote: > > > > > > > I wonder what would have happened if there were no > > DVD's in question. > > > No hard drive either. just an internet connection > > (and a cached film) -- > > > what would the cops do...? > > > we would need to know IT act and cyber laws better > > ...(maybe not) but im > > > willing to argue that its not a crime to make a > > presentation to an audience > > > pulling out some material from the internet. > > (where the film can legally > > > reside, away from national boundaries and > > identities) > > > > > > > > > This is a very interesting thought and I think it is > > well worth a try. > > > > One excellent place to upload 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' or > > any such film in the > > future which might face such difficulties is - > > Azureus and its web > > platform - Vuze > > > > http://azureus.sourceforge.net/ > > http://www.vuze.com > > http://www.vuze.com/content/FeaturedContent.html > > > > Think of this as the 'Youtube' of full length, high > > quality, feature > > films, experimental films and documentaries and > > other video entitities. > > > > Vuze has an excellent 'Documentaries' selection > > freely available for > > download (see under 'Categories') > > > > All a filmmaker needs to do is to register (as you > > would in Flickr or > > any such service) and upload their content over a > > high bandwidth > > connection, with 'standard definition' or 'high > > definition' content > > (the site has excellent 'how tos') and you are on. > > Anyone can download > > any film. I regularly download more than two hour > > long films from this > > site and this is done easily and without problems > > (you have to download > > the latest version of 'Vuze/Azureus' as your p2p > > client). > > > > Imagine, 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' or any such film - > > available on a good, > > trustworthy space, safe and secure from censor > > boards and the Mumbai > > Police or any self righteous busybodies, and > > hundreds, maybe thousands > > of people hitting 'download' in Mumbai, or anywhere, > > and showing the > > film to small groups of people off their computers > > and or laptops. There > > could be small, mobile, 'guerrila' screenings if you > > like. Involve > > students, volunteers, anyone. Announce screening > > days, spread the > > message through mobiles and mailing lists, and your > > 'public' expands by > > a factor of who knows what. > > > > And the public-private partnership of the censorious > > can sit and twiddle > > their thumbs. > > > > It is possible. 14th and 15th August are coming, > > they are celebrated or > > mourned (as you like) across the subcontinent as the > > day that the south > > asian landmass embraced in different ways the > > albatross of the nation > > state. Perhas this would be as good an occasion as > > any to celebrate a > > different kind of sovereignty - a mobile republic(s) > > of moving images. > > > > What about a dispersed - upload-download-screening > > party of lots of > > indedependent documentaries, with perhaps a special > > dispersed screening > > of 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > > > > That could be a real Jashn, and it's the kind of > > Azaadi I enjoy and endorse > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:59:25 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:59:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> What else does one expect out of Pakistan.Whoever said Kashmiri Freedom struggle was indigeneous and started the Jashn may eat his words please. This report has been carried by Greater Kashmir also today. Pan-Islamic Expansion in the garb of something as sacred and pious as Azadi.... It was for nothing that the first call of "indpendence" of kashmir was AZADI KA MATLAB KYA LA-ILLAH ILLAAH.They already knew the source and the today someone suddenly removed the lambs attire to find a wolf in it. regards Rashneek On 8/8/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pakistan > Govt., official > > - by Kshmendra Kaul > > Pakistan's Parliamentary Secretary for Defence has stated that the Kashmir > issue will not be resolved on the table. He has suggested that free entry > should be allowed to the Jihadis into Kashmir and that kind of facilitation > would resolve the Kashmir issue in one month. > > Major (Rtd.) Syed Tanveer Hussain made these comments during a foreign > policy debate on Aug 7, 2007 in the National Assembly of Pakistan. > > Tanveer Hussain also stated during the course of the debate that the CIA > was orchestrating the slaying of Chinese nationals in Pakistan. He called > for raising the slogan of Jihad to take revenge against United States of > America. > > This was reported by "The News" which is a part of the Jang Group of > Pakistan. The Group also runs the GEO network of TV stations. > > The comments by Tanveer Hussain will command special attention because of > his position as the top-ranking bureaucrat in Pakistan's Ministry of > Defence. With an Army General as the ruler of Pakistan, the significance of > the opinion expressed by such a highly placed official in the Ministry of > Defence will not be ignored. > > The comments by Tanveer Hussain, are a complete negation of the professed > stance of the Govt of Pakistan on what routes it declares it will follow for > the betterment of relations with India and in the resolution of "issues" > between the two countries. > > Perhaps the United States of America also would be caught completely > off-guard by an official of Govt. of Pakistan expressing such views and > especially the calling for Jihad against the USA. > > It is extremely unlikely that Pakistan's Parliamentary Secretary of > Defence would have ventured or dared to make such comments without the > expressed approval of Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and certainly not without > the permission of General Musharraf. > > How India and USA will react, remains to be seen. > __________________________________________________________ > > Based on report from http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=27165 > > > --------------------------------- > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 05:04:47 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Vedavati, So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called liberals never had any idea of real politik.But thats why they dont dictate politcs in this country.Do you think that Kashmiris are anywhere near to self-determination than they were in say, 1948? No! Ok now let me establish where I come from.I oppose self determination both on an ideological and pragmatic basis.As long as the Kashmiris keep talking about self determination,Kashmir will remain a police state and innocent people of every religion will keep getting screwed.Sad, but true. Also, though I recognize the moral right of the jihadi to fight for self-determination, nation states do not work on such canonical moral principles and in that context,I recognize the jihadi as my enemy and will pay tax to kill him if necessary. But,I am against stuff like AFSPA,which gives the army power to kill without accountability.(By the way,people in NE states are screwed way beyond the kashmiris can ever imagine by the army)I believe that the organized army of a nation state should be held to stricter principles than terrorists/jihadis etc,so that there should be some protection to the innocent people. I hope your views would not to be much different. regards Rahul --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > it may appear childish but i can't help it. > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not > with its true essence, i am talking about typical > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders, > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to > visit those camps), two of his best friends were > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the > rss members.) > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus > should also start killing members of muslim league > because they partitioned our country. > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in > pakistan. > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody > principles > > vedavati > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From: > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to > demean children by saying that!). The complex> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come > as guests - they> came to do trade and business, > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so, > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be > the "original" resident of this house> - its been > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides, > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation. > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> > > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate > them> > permanently, they expect you to do > everything for> > them, they try to do away with > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do > without that.> > Because that is not in your > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing > everything which is in the> > interest of your > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From senpriya at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:27:44 2007 From: senpriya at gmail.com (Priya Sen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:27:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Our Histories, Our Timelines: 11th August 2007, 5 pm onwards In-Reply-To: <2617ab630708070012hd14463fl5fd727a12ef93d56@mail.gmail.com> References: <2617ab630708070012hd14463fl5fd727a12ef93d56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c9003440708082057y555a4322hbfbfd43c8420a0a4@mail.gmail.com> *From Then to Now: Our Histories, Our Timelines* August 11, 1992 saw India's first protest which used the vocabulary of gay rights. It protested against the police raids on gay men cruising in Central Park, Connought Place and asserted the importance of choice in matters of love, sex and sexuality. Come to discuss and witness a short visual presentation on the journey that we've made since these first queer stirrings of the early nineties. Come to hear stories about red-roses, half-secret meetings, lesbian-gay magazines, film-festivals and jantar-mantar marches, of hook-up websites and sunday socials, and of many more promises, lures and seductions! Following the presentation and discussion at the Attic we shall proceed on to a silent March at CP to mark the 15th Anniversary of the ABVA protest. To re-own the spaces which were barred from us. To make our own queer city! Through a participatory retelling in the present, we defragment our pasts, thereby composing our own stories, free ourselves from the *invisibility* of others, rendering us wholly more confident to determine the future. Join Nigah in this journey to celebrate moments and histories which have shaped our births and lives, secrets and voices. *Date:* 11th August 2007* * *Time:* 05.00 pm onwards *Venue:* The Attic (above the People Tree) 36 Regal Building, Parliament Street Connaught Place, New Delhi Nearest metro station: Rajiv Chowk Parking: Hanuman Mandir/DLF Centre Bus Stop: Palika Kendra/Regal Cinema See you there! - The Nigah Team --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nigahdelhi" group. To post to this group, send email to nigahdelhi at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nigahdelhi-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nigahdelhi?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 10:36:34 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:36:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> Rahul, Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective. Regards Rashneek On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Vedavati, > So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas > etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called > liberals never had any idea of real politik.But thats > why they dont dictate politcs in this country.Do you > think that Kashmiris are anywhere near to > self-determination than they were in say, 1948? No! > Ok now let me establish where I come from.I oppose > self determination both on an ideological and > pragmatic basis.As long as the Kashmiris keep talking > about self determination,Kashmir will remain a police > state and innocent people of every religion will keep > getting screwed.Sad, but true. Also, though I > recognize the moral right of the jihadi to fight for > self-determination, nation states do not work on such > canonical moral principles and in that context,I > recognize the jihadi as my enemy and will pay tax to > kill him if necessary. > But,I am against stuff like AFSPA,which gives the army > power to kill without accountability.(By the > way,people in NE states are screwed way beyond the > kashmiris can ever imagine by the army)I believe that > the organized army of a nation state should be held to > stricter principles than terrorists/jihadis etc,so > that there should be some protection to the innocent > people. I hope your views would not to be much > different. > > regards > Rahul > > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it. > > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not > > with its true essence, i am talking about typical > > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists > > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband > > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property > > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still > > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders, > > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to > > visit those camps), two of his best friends were > > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by > > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't > > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the > > rss members.) > > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus > > should also start killing members of muslim league > > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on > > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of > > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants > > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their > > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in > > pakistan. > > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody > > principles > > > > vedavati > > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From: > > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in > > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want > > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish > > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to > > demean children by saying that!). The complex> > > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like > > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I > > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful > > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from > > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come > > as guests - they> came to do trade and business, > > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to > > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these > > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are > > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or > > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can > > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just> > > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now > > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house > > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so, > > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be > > the "original" resident of this house> - its been > > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no > > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country > > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called > > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting > > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which > > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the > > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry > > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution > > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the> > > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their> > > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality> > > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the > > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And > > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides, > > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation. > > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle > > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> > > > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > > > > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends > > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start > > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate > > them> > permanently, they expect you to do > > everything for> > them, they try to do away with > > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their > > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they > > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge > > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal > > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the > > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me > > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you > > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way > > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do > > without that.> > Because that is not in your > > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable > > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing > > everything which is in the> > interest of your > > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or > > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or > > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are > > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am > > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in > > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get > > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to > > > > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From ratishn at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:12:23 2007 From: ratishn at gmail.com (Ratish Nanda) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:12:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: YJA - Please join Rajendra Singh on 10 August 07 In-Reply-To: <659937df0708081152m1877bc93h61d6d00c309ca33a@mail.gmail.com> References: <659937df0708081152m1877bc93h61d6d00c309ca33a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Friends, You may be aware that Sri Rajendra Singh and Prof. S Prakash with their dedicated band of supporters have been camping as a mark of protest at the impugned site of the proposed Games Village behind Akshardham since 1 August 2007. It is indeed ironical and a matter of regret that while people from various parts of country keep joining them from time to time, there are very few Delhites amongst them? To commemorate the 10 th day of the Yamuna Satyagrah it is proposed to hold a solidarity sit in with them from 9 am onwards at the said site. It is time that people from all walks of life in Delhi came out onto the streets for the security of their life-line in form of river Yamuna. This is to invite you all to kindly spare your time and join the sit in at the said site. Kindly inform your friends too about it. Queries if any are most welcome. manoj -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com -- Ratish Nanda Conservation Architect 1559, Sector B, Pocket 1 Vasant Kunj New Delhi 110070 INDIA From tapasrayx at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 11:28:32 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:28:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> References: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BAAD08.508@gmail.com> The Pandits are in a position similar to the Palestinians who were thrown out of their land when Israel was created. How long will this madness go on? These never-ending claims, around the world, of statehood based on exclusion? TR rashneek kher wrote: > Rahul, > > Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: >> Vedavati, >> So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas >> etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called From tnog at lmi.net Thu Aug 9 11:32:23 2007 From: tnog at lmi.net (tnog at lmi.net) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 23:02:23 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Heritage Program Coordinator Position Available Message-ID: <20070808230223.og166zzkcgog488w@webmail.lmi.net> Dear Moderator, Apologies for cross-posting. I am forwarding a call for applicants for a position with the Nabha Foundation, a registered charitable trust working in Nabha, Punjab. We are looking for a qualified individual to coordinate a cultural mapping project in Nabha, as well as other heritage/culture related projects. The foundation is unique insofar that it is an integrated development org, looking also at heritage and cultural issues along with livelihood, health and education. Interested applicants should email a CV and cover letter to sachin at thenabhafoundation.org I would appreciate it if you could post this on the list. Warm Thanks, Tak -------------------- Background The Nabha Foundation is a registered and independent, non-profit trust. The Foundation has been established in response to a felt need for a holistic pattern of development in Punjab. To achieve this aim the Foundation seeks to develop replicable innovative and sustainable development models in Nabha, covering areas of health, education, livelihood, culture, heritage and environment. The Foundation has the following vacancies for its Nabha office in Patiala district of Punjab: JOB DESCRIPTION: PROGRAM COORDINATOR FOR HERITAGE PROGRAM LOCATION: NABHA, PUNJAB DEADLINE FOR APPLICATIONS: AUGUST 10, 2007 REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS, SKILLS, EXPERIENCES ? Postgraduate, preferably in history, archaeology, social science, conservation or heritage management ? Experience in conservation/heritage management or related cultural sector for at least 3 years ? Good communication skills and ability to engage in dialogue with multiple stakeholders ? Should be able to organize seminars, workshops and community outreach programs ? Good documentation/writing skills ? Preference will be given to Punjabi speaking applicants ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ? Work on various program aspects?planning, implementation, monitoring?under supervision of Program Head ? Sensitizing community on cultural heritage related issues through education, outreach and advocacy ? Coordinate cultural heritage program with work of built-heritage conservation team and link activities with livelihood, health and education programs WHOM TO CONTACT Interested candidates are requested to send their resume within 10 days to the Administration Incharge, The Nabha Foundation, Khemka House, 11 Community Centre, Saket, New Delhi - 110017, or email your resume to sachin at thenabhafoundation.org The Nabha Foundation is an equal opportunity organization. Women candidates are encouraged to apply. From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 11:35:23 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:35:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <46BAAD08.508@gmail.com> References: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> <46BAAD08.508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708082305w3538c3b7w47000a2156cfc5e5@mail.gmail.com> Well said tapas..a lot of these pseudos here feel some pleasure in seeing half a million uprooted people yet when it comes to gujarat even 5000 is a great number. 323 destroyed temples and no word from the so-called intellectuals...12000 houses of pandits burnt exclsuive activism and wilful suspension of disbelief..... Regards Rashneek On 8/9/07, Tapas Ray wrote: > > The Pandits are in a position similar to the Palestinians who were > thrown out of their land when Israel was created. > > How long will this madness go on? These never-ending claims, around the > world, of statehood based on exclusion? > > TR > > rashneek kher wrote: > > Rahul, > > > > Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective. > > > > Regards > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: > >> Vedavati, > >> So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas > >> etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From tapasrayx at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 12:05:27 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:05:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708082305w3538c3b7w47000a2156cfc5e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> <46BAAD08.508@gmail.com> <13df7c120708082305w3538c3b7w47000a2156cfc5e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BAB5AF.5010208@gmail.com> I think civil society would have been more responsive to the Pandits' plight if Hindu fascists had not carried out pogroms at regular intervals to exclude Muslims from India. TR rashneek kher wrote: > Well said tapas..a lot of these pseudos here feel some pleasure in > seeing half a million uprooted people yet when it comes to gujarat even > 5000 is a great number. > 323 destroyed temples and no word from the so-called > intellectuals...12000 houses of pandits burnt > exclsuive activism and wilful suspension of disbelief..... > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/9/07, *Tapas Ray* > wrote: > > The Pandits are in a position similar to the Palestinians who were > thrown out of their land when Israel was created. > > How long will this madness go on? These never-ending claims, around the > world, of statehood based on exclusion? > > TR > > rashneek kher wrote: > > Rahul, > > > > Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective. > > > > Regards > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > >> Vedavati, > >> So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas > >> etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so called > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From tapasrayx at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 12:19:05 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:19:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708082341k2fa1c930q4c19ede0bdc6b077@mail.gmail.com> References: <476827.24637.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082206m1edbec55r1dfe1bf3f5aa51af@mail.gmail.com> <46BAAD08.508@gmail.com> <13df7c120708082305w3538c3b7w47000a2156cfc5e5@mail.gmail.com> <46BAB46C.5040905@gmail.com> <13df7c120708082335q7b902b28i374c1868e77f899a@mail.gmail.com> <46BAB67C.9000502@gmail.com> <13df7c120708082341k2fa1c930q4c19ede0bdc6b077@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BAB8E1.8020402@gmail.com> Rashneek had written to me offlist, but I assumed it was a list message and sent my response to both him and to the list. Sincere apologies to Rashneek, especially, and also to others. Tapas rashneek kher wrote: > I wrote it to you alone.Yet if you wish to you can. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/9/07, *Tapas Ray* > wrote: > > Hi. I hit "reply" and sent the mail to you instead of the list by > mistake. Can I respond to this mail of yours to the list? > > Tapas > > rashneek kher wrote: > > Maybe you are right but isnt there more to the "pogroms" than > what meets > > the eye.Havent a large number of Muslims and their supporters > wanted a > > special place of them in a country which otherwise has uniform laws. > > Remember Shah-bano case. > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/9/07, *Tapas Ray* > > >> wrote: > > > > I think civil society would have been more responsive to the > Pandits' > > plight if Hindu fascists had not carried out pogroms at regular > > intervals to exclude Muslims from India. > > > > TR > > > > > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > Well said tapas..a lot of these pseudos here feel some > pleasure in > > > seeing half a million uprooted people yet when it comes to > > gujarat even > > > 5000 is a great number. > > > 323 destroyed temples and no word from the so-called > > > intellectuals...12000 houses of pandits burnt > > > exclsuive activism and wilful suspension of disbelief..... > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > > On 8/9/07, *Tapas Ray* > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > The Pandits are in a position similar to the > Palestinians who > > were > > > thrown out of their land when Israel was created. > > > > > > How long will this madness go on? These never-ending > claims, > > around the > > > world, of statehood based on exclusion? > > > > > > TR > > > > > > rashneek kher wrote: > > > > Rahul, > > > > > > > > Finally a voice of sanity..Thanks for the perspective. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/9/07, Rahul Asthana < rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >> Vedavati, > > > >> So your anger is against secular leaders,filmwalas > > > >> etc. Well I concur with you.In my opinion so > called > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > > > >> with subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rashneek Kher > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 15:13:51 2007 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood farooqui) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:13:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: You are cordially invited to Partition Dastans- New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around parrtition on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, India Habitat Centre. Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre or Zuban. Please come early. From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 15:22:39 2007 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood farooqui) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:22:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August Message-ID: > You are cordially invited to > > Partition Dastans- > > New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around parrtition > > on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, India Habitat Centre. > > Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre or Zuban. > > Please come early. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 16:54:20 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:24:20 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> References: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708090424p214c075eu4d04aba8fbfdde2@mail.gmail.com> imho this was a PR exercise to engage the hawks on all sides within the ranks and parliament, those wanting rapproachment with the Taliban, lobbies in the US, but not so much those in India. The exercise involved announcing that emergency was being discussed, then obfuscated statements by senior politicians that indeed yes or no, and finally a no, no emergency will be declared after due deliberations. but agreed it was a rush alright. On 8/9/07, rashneek kher wrote: > What else does one expect out of Pakistan.Whoever said Kashmiri Freedom > struggle was indigeneous and started the Jashn may eat his words please........ > > > On 8/8/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pakistan > > Govt., official From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 17:10:28 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:10:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Taslima Nasren roughed up in Hyderabad Message-ID: <13df7c120708090440n4556ec9fk2caedaefd5ca9b23@mail.gmail.com> Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen was today roughed up by MIM activists who stormed into a book release function here, injuring a Telugu writer and a press photographer. Nasreen, here to release the Telugu translation of her latest book "Shodh", escaped unhurt as organisers and journalists shielded her and escorted her to safety. A group of over 40 MIM workers, led by party MLAs Afsar Khan, Ahmed Pasha and Mouzam Khan, barged into the press club at Somajiguda when the function was about to end. Hurling abuse and shouting slogans, the MIM workers surged menacingly towards the dais as a stunned Nasreen looked on. They threw papers and books at Nasreen. In the melee, Telugu writer N Innaiah, the organiser of the function and president of the rationalist organisation Centre for Inquiry, was injured along with a press photographer. Alert organisers and journalists covering the event threw a protective ring around Nasreen and took her to an adjoining room. The MIM activists, who demanded that Nasreen should leave immediately, broke windows and damaged furniture at the venue. Police then reached the spot and dispersed them. The three MLAs from the city and their supporters were taken to Banjara Hills police station, Deputy Commissioner of Police M Madhusudhan Reddy said. The manager of the Press Club filed a complaint with police against the attackers. A large number of mediapersons gathered at the press club and protested against the behaviour of the MIM activists. They sought stringent action against the MLAs and their supporters. Later, a delegation of journalists led by Indian Journalists Union (IJU) secretary general K Srinivasa Reddy and Andhra Pradesh Union of Working Journalists (APUWJ) leader D Amar met Chief Minister Y S Rajasekhara Reddy and sought stringent action against the culprits. The MIM, which has considerable influence in the old city area, is represented in the Lok Sabha by Asaduddin Owaisi and has five members in the assembly. Digvijay Singh, the Congress general secretary in-charge of party affairs in Andhra Pradesh, condemned the incident and said such attacks had no place in a liberal society. The CPI state council termed the incident as an "attack on the freedom of expression by Muslim fundamentalists" and demanded the immediate arrest of the MIM legislators and their supporters. -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From vishal.rawlley at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 22:55:39 2007 From: vishal.rawlley at gmail.com (Vishal Rawlley) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:55:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Taxi Project - Meter Down Podcast In-Reply-To: <13373.39101.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <13373.39101.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31d5ea920708091025k28c9769fpac1f12314cb04117@mail.gmail.com> dear kabi, your project sounds very interesting. i have been working on/ with taxi drivers for a long time and i find some of the ideas you have very similar to mine. i have extensively documented the sticker art on mumbai taxis for several years, this project is part of my documentation of city signage called Typocty. Please see www.typocity.com and under the Documentation + Analysis section scroll down to 'Taxis: number plates + sticker art'. You can find more on the radiumwallas and their craft under the Projects + Workshops section - click on Taxi Art. i have also conducted a number of workshops with radiumwallas for art students and also collaborated with them on design projects. i know a number of radium wallas and taxi drivers on a personal basis. they know about my interest in them are are quite friendly now. i find your idea of recording conversations with them very interesting. a oral history project that i initiated years ago is called 'Bombay Sonic', one episode of this project can be listened to at: www.bombay-arts.com/netart/bombaysonic.html (my website is www.bombay-arts.com ) i have also been interviewing taxi drivers for a long time, mainly to work out narratives for a potetial story series called 'Taxi Tales'. i do not have recordings, only notes, as my conversatons are far too many and casual and spontaneous. i have also collected Taxi Tales from other friends who have had interesting conversations with taxi drivers. i am glad that someone is actually recording these conversations. good luck with your project. best, vishal On 8/3/07, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > > As part of a larger project on Bombay taxi drivers ( kaali-peeli ki > kahani), I have been recording conversations with cab drivers, with their > permission of course, as we ride from one place to another in the city. I > am now podcasting these conversations as episodes in a podcast called Meter > Down. The language is Hindi. I consider this project an oral history, a > verbal record, that explores the questions of migration and mulak, bombay > and change, taxi-driving and life. The cabbies, of course, also tell some > wonderful stories. > > You can listen to these conversations at http://meterdown.wordpress.com, > a blog on which I also post photos of the drivers and their taxis. Outtakes > of some of the wonderful bits of these conversations are also posted on the > site for listener convenience. > I am an ex-taxi driver myself and have been working on this Bombay taxi > driver project for a year now. Taxi drivers write the city: they move > through its streets and collect its stories. They track its changes while > journeying with their passengers through its transformations and they > experience the absence of the old. Yet they are also the subjects of these > changes. Driver-owned old taxis are being forced out of service and their > permits cancelled. New private taxi fleets with 'modern' vehicles are vying > for these permits but refuse to hire most of the drivers. The drivers' > futures are uncertain. A majority of the drivers are migrants, each with his > own sense of home. I am interested in this internal migration, the movement > of people from the villages to a city that looks away from these villages > and outward into a globalising world. what did the taxi drivers leave > behind? what dreams did they bring and what dreams remain? where is home > now? > > > > The project also includes documenting and photographing the personal and > creative designs that cab drivers employ to make each taxi a signifier of > the self: words on the back windows that act like clues, rexine mudflaps, > mirrored ceilings, patterened seat-covers, radium patterning and painted > mechanical meters. I print these images to fabric and create textile pieces. > I buy old steering wheels and wrap them using plastic flourescent rope, > making patterns by putting radium underneath, as I learned to do from an old > radiumwala. I use rearview mirrors and photos of drivers' eyes to make 'gaze > pieces'. > > > But it is these podcasts that are the ballast. Please give them a listen. > > > I have currently posted two episodes on the blog and plan to post another > conversation every 15-20 days. I appreciate feedback, suggestions, > critiques, etc. There is a place on the blog for comments or you can email > me at this ID. > > If you have Itunes, you can search for 'Meter Down' and subscribe to the > podcast or download episodes from there, esp. if bandwidth is a problem. > Meter Down is also listed in some podcast directories such as Podcast Alley, > Odeo (tho only 1 episode showing) , podcastingnews, and Google using meter > down podcast search terms. > > regards, > kabi > > http://meterdown.wordpress.com > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From cymruwest at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 23:13:43 2007 From: cymruwest at yahoo.com (Amy West) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Taxi Project - Meter Down Podcast In-Reply-To: <31d5ea920708091025k28c9769fpac1f12314cb04117@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47415.79373.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> dear kabi and vishal, i was reading these emails on Sarai and thought i'd respond to both of you. for me, i have been interested for a long time in doing a project - eventually a documentary? - on taxi drivers. my interest is regarding the immigration aspect and the flash fiction-esque way in which we jump into the backseat of a cab and can engage in someone's life for a few minutes. i have ideas fleshed out on all kinds of metaphors with regard to the idea of transport and the interplay with the citizen vs. immigrant, but this requires an in-depth conversation. any chance there is a desire to produce an inter-continental look at this (i am located in the States) and if so, can we get interest in terms of support under which we can work to get these narratives published or eventually put into a documentary? i may have the ability - once there are a collection of narratives to get the documentary piece figured out on this end...any ideas? best, amy Vishal Rawlley wrote: dear kabi, your project sounds very interesting. i have been working on/ with taxi drivers for a long time and i find some of the ideas you have very similar to mine. i have extensively documented the sticker art on mumbai taxis for several years, this project is part of my documentation of city signage called Typocty. Please see www.typocity.com and under the Documentation + Analysis section scroll down to 'Taxis: number plates + sticker art'. You can find more on the radiumwallas and their craft under the Projects + Workshops section - click on Taxi Art. i have also conducted a number of workshops with radiumwallas for art students and also collaborated with them on design projects. i know a number of radium wallas and taxi drivers on a personal basis. they know about my interest in them are are quite friendly now. i find your idea of recording conversations with them very interesting. a oral history project that i initiated years ago is called 'Bombay Sonic', one episode of this project can be listened to at: www.bombay-arts.com/netart/bombaysonic.html (my website is www.bombay-arts.com ) i have also been interviewing taxi drivers for a long time, mainly to work out narratives for a potetial story series called 'Taxi Tales'. i do not have recordings, only notes, as my conversatons are far too many and casual and spontaneous. i have also collected Taxi Tales from other friends who have had interesting conversations with taxi drivers. i am glad that someone is actually recording these conversations. good luck with your project. best, vishal On 8/3/07, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > > As part of a larger project on Bombay taxi drivers ( kaali-peeli ki > kahani), I have been recording conversations with cab drivers, with their > permission of course, as we ride from one place to another in the city. I > am now podcasting these conversations as episodes in a podcast called Meter > Down. The language is Hindi. I consider this project an oral history, a > verbal record, that explores the questions of migration and mulak, bombay > and change, taxi-driving and life. The cabbies, of course, also tell some > wonderful stories. > > You can listen to these conversations at http://meterdown.wordpress.com, > a blog on which I also post photos of the drivers and their taxis. Outtakes > of some of the wonderful bits of these conversations are also posted on the > site for listener convenience. > I am an ex-taxi driver myself and have been working on this Bombay taxi > driver project for a year now. Taxi drivers write the city: they move > through its streets and collect its stories. They track its changes while > journeying with their passengers through its transformations and they > experience the absence of the old. Yet they are also the subjects of these > changes. Driver-owned old taxis are being forced out of service and their > permits cancelled. New private taxi fleets with 'modern' vehicles are vying > for these permits but refuse to hire most of the drivers. The drivers' > futures are uncertain. A majority of the drivers are migrants, each with his > own sense of home. I am interested in this internal migration, the movement > of people from the villages to a city that looks away from these villages > and outward into a globalising world. what did the taxi drivers leave > behind? what dreams did they bring and what dreams remain? where is home > now? > > > > The project also includes documenting and photographing the personal and > creative designs that cab drivers employ to make each taxi a signifier of > the self: words on the back windows that act like clues, rexine mudflaps, > mirrored ceilings, patterened seat-covers, radium patterning and painted > mechanical meters. I print these images to fabric and create textile pieces. > I buy old steering wheels and wrap them using plastic flourescent rope, > making patterns by putting radium underneath, as I learned to do from an old > radiumwala. I use rearview mirrors and photos of drivers' eyes to make 'gaze > pieces'. > > > But it is these podcasts that are the ballast. Please give them a listen. > > > I have currently posted two episodes on the blog and plan to post another > conversation every 15-20 days. I appreciate feedback, suggestions, > critiques, etc. There is a place on the blog for comments or you can email > me at this ID. > > If you have Itunes, you can search for 'Meter Down' and subscribe to the > podcast or download episodes from there, esp. if bandwidth is a problem. > Meter Down is also listed in some podcast directories such as Podcast Alley, > Odeo (tho only 1 episode showing) , podcastingnews, and Google using meter > down podcast search terms. > > regards, > kabi > > http://meterdown.wordpress.com > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From virtualhema at rediffmail.com Wed Aug 8 23:27:12 2007 From: virtualhema at rediffmail.com (virtualhema at rediffmail.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:57:12 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Fw: [announcements] India China InstituteFellows Program : Inviting applications Message-ID: <650750439-1186596041-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1535881669-@bxe016.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -----Original Message----- From: "PUKAR" Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:12:53 To: Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [announcements] India China Institute Fellows Program : Inviting applications India China Institute - PUKAR (Local Partner) invites applications for the India China Institute Fellows Program The India China Institute (ICI) based at The New School, New York, invites applications for its second fellowship program: Prosperity and Inequality: India and China India China Fellows Program (ICFP), ICI seeks applicants who are highly accomplished, innovative and emerging leaders with 5 to 15 years of professional experience in their respective fields. Applicants from diverse backgrounds such as public administration, academics, media, civic action, art, architecture and private entrepreneurship are encouraged to apply. Applicants should address the program theme with particular focus on regional development, migration, and design strategies. Priority will be given to applicants who are sensitive to social, cultural and gender aspects. This two year fellowship requires: 1. Indian citizenship and proof of residency for more than 5 years 2. Masters Degree or equivalent experience 3. Willingness to be an active and essential participant in an interactive, intellectual, collaborative research project that will be innovative and influential 4. Commitment to participate in 4 international residencies: .. March 16-30, 2008, NY .. November2-9, 2008, China .. August 23-30, 2009, India .. April 14-18, 2010 (tbd) 5. Total fluency in English, working knowledge of the computer and access to internet for communication and research purpose 6. The selected fellows could continue their current profession during their fellowship period. They will be assisted in the research proposal, travel, workshops and compensated appropriately by an honorarium 7. Applications must be postmarked no later than August 30, 2007. Late applications will not be considered. (Kindly ignore this mail if you have already applied) Application Forms can be downloaded from: www.indiachina.newschool.edu For further information, please write or email: Dr. Anita Patil-Deshmukh Senior Advisor, India China Institute C/o PUKAR, 1-4, 2nd floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P M Road, Fort, Mumbai, 400 001 Tel: 91 22 6505 3302 Fax: 91 22 6664 0561 E-mail : deshmuka at newschool.edu; pukar at pukar.org.in PUKAR (Partners for Urban Knowledge Action and Research) Address:: 1-4, 2nd Floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P. M. Road, Fort, Mumbai 400 001 Telephone:: +91 (22) 6574 8152 Fax:: +91 (22) 6664 0561 Email:: pukar at pukar.org.in Website:: www.pukar.org.in _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From p.hatzopoulos-alumni at lse.ac.uk Fri Aug 10 04:49:27 2007 From: p.hatzopoulos-alumni at lse.ac.uk (p.hatzopoulos-alumni at lse.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:19:27 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Gendering new media theory Message-ID: Online journal Re-public < www.republic.gr/en > has just published a forum titled "Gendering new media theory". The forum explores the challenges that gender poses for the analyses of digital societies. Articles include: Rosalind Gill - From sexual objectification to sexual subjectification: The resexualisation of women’s bodies in the media < http://www.re-public.gr/en/?p=175 > The figure of the autonomous, active, desiring subject has become the dominant figure for representing young women via new media. But this sexual subjectification, Rosalind Gill argues, has turned out to be objectification in new and even more pernicious guise. _____ Laura Robinson - Virtual structure vs. digital agency: Revolution, mediation, or replication? < http://www.re-public.gr/en/?p=162 > The spread of information technologies does not automatically mitigates the effects of exclusion and deprivation, it can even accenuate it. _____ Helen Kambouri and Pavlos Hatzopoulos - The banality of blogging or how does the web affect the public-private dichotomy < http://www.re-public.gr/en/?p=165 > Is blogging the means by which the ‘feminine’ voices previously excluded from public discourse and kept hidden in the ‘private’ sphere, can now be released? _____ All articles of Re-public are published with a Creative Commons license and can be re-printed freely, by acknowledging their source. Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/secretariat/legal/disclaimer.htm From nutan_du at yahoo.co.in Fri Aug 10 13:21:12 2007 From: nutan_du at yahoo.co.in (nutan maurya) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:51:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Taslima Nasren roughed up in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708090440n4556ec9fk2caedaefd5ca9b23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <273502.65602.qm@web8709.mail.in.yahoo.com> The attack on Taslima Nasreen is example of curbing of democratic place and expansion of cultural intolerance and extremism. I appreciate the journalists and police for their quick action. These types of attack on the right to express is attack on the constitution too. It is time now to all democratic and liberal minded people to come together and criticise the incident and face the handful of people who are trying to control and to decide what is to be said which is good enough to their ears only. nutan --------------------------------- 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store unlimited mails in your inbox. Click here. From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 15:32:47 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:02:47 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708090432y773e48d8jd32bb524ffb58454@mail.gmail.com> References: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0708090424p214c075eu4d04aba8fbfdde2@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708090432y773e48d8jd32bb524ffb58454@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708100302g9b0253bs91e6b3ed8e9c6c9b@mail.gmail.com> Rashneek I'm not sure how to reply to you, since you are using the usual rhetoric to answer an analysed observation i made. I am not even sure you understood what I wrote with the hammerhead reply. Yes there may be a difference of perspectives. While I may incline towards a number of them, in my mail the theoretical underpinning as that within the Pakistan, US and Indian governments there are competing ideas, lobbies, policies regimes - take your pick of concept - it will suffice. If we accept this much than my email will seem more digestable. The consequence is that we take Pakistan and the Pakistani government and the Pakistani Armed forces ( or the US or the Indian for the sake of concept) as 'simply' a monolithic entity which is also at the same time an astounding threat - but rather organizations of people which have differing and multiple agendas. That is, if there is a jihadi and confrontatinal lobby within, there is an equally and more dominant at the moment liberal/left/dovish/other lobby-alliance which is waging its ideological war against the jihadi (under threat) idea. You may not agree but Musharraf is liberal in his general outlook. he may be authoritarian and may switch to hard rhetoric and actions which are jihadi and/ or nationalist in tone. An overview of past editorials will confirm this, if you are in doubt. On the ground the general opening up of cultural activities and media (however contested) is a better argument. The J-lobby however, which has recently been in the backroom, has been pushing and shoving throughout. My email, so Rashneek, pointed out that Musharraf beset to some extent by internal opposition (Supreme Court, Taliban-Waziristan, etc), while taking pressure to perform (re Taliban) from the US, with recent statements about US forces landing in Pakistan, pulled off an effective policy-perceptions exercise, by not going to the Kabul Jirga, issuing statements of islamic-national solidarity ( re Major Tanvir - the subject of the e-mail ), talking about declaring an Emergency in the country ( as the J-lobby would like in addition to taking a confrontational stance to the US) which would have been a desperate attempt to curb political opposition as well as from the Supreme Court, having Choudhary Shujaat take the blame for suggesting the emergency (thereby satisfying his right wing support) and later negating it - having come back full circle. No India oe Kashmir does not figure in this very much. I dont know about the land of genies or paris but no, my words do not betray me. best y On 8/9/07, rashneek kher wrote: > Yasir, > > No matter what you tried to write about this post..your words seemed to be > simply betraying you somehow.Let us defend the indefensible....right... > This just shows how our "indigeneous terrorists " sorry freedom fighters are > but mere killing machines/pawns in hands of a bigger genie. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/9/07, yasir ~ wrote: > > > > imho this was a PR exercise to engage the hawks on all sides within > > the ranks and parliament, those wanting rapproachment with the > > Taliban, lobbies in the US, but not so much those in India. The > > exercise involved announcing that emergency was being discussed, then > > obfuscated statements by senior politicians that indeed yes or no, and > > finally a no, no emergency will be declared after due deliberations. > > but agreed it was a rush alright. > > > > > > > > On 8/9/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > What else does one expect out of Pakistan.Whoever said Kashmiri Freedom > > > struggle was indigeneous and started the Jashn may eat his words > please........ > > > > > > > > > On 8/8/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says > Pakistan > > > > Govt., official > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From pkray11 at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 15:44:44 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:44:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two Films on Nandigram Message-ID: <98f331e00708100314h1ffe194aq788f7abefb168462@mail.gmail.com> STUDENTS' FEDERATION OF INDIA invites you all to the screening of two films on Nandigram *Nandigram: In Search of Answers* Directed by Anindita Sarbadhicari 2007 / 1 HOUR 19 MINS / BENGALI / VOICEOVER AND SUBTITLES IN ENGLISH * Nandigram: Aasmaan Ke Talaash Mein * Directed by Prakash Kumar Ray 2007 / 34 MINS / BENGALI, HINDI / VOICEOVER AND SUBTITLES IN HINDI These two documentary films are based on the tragedy in Nandigram. The police firing in Nandigram on 14th March 2007 has disturbed peace-loving democratic minded people across the country. The Left Front Government in West Bengal has come under intense political attack on the issue from the entire spectrum of political opposition, from the ultra-Right to the ultra-Left. The truth of course was lost in the din of shrill anti- Left propaganda. By revisiting the police firing on 14th March 2007, the sequence of events which led to it as well as its aftermath, the documentaries portray the tragedy as it unfolded. At KC Open Air Theatre, JNU, New Delhi Sunday, 12th August 2007 9.00 p.m. onwards The Directors of the two documentaries will be present to interact with the audience. From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 15:51:38 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:51:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708100302g9b0253bs91e6b3ed8e9c6c9b@mail.gmail.com> References: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0708090424p214c075eu4d04aba8fbfdde2@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708090432y773e48d8jd32bb524ffb58454@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0708100302g9b0253bs91e6b3ed8e9c6c9b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708100321i5b180cebya4a4f60b86afbc86@mail.gmail.com> Yasir, Wonder how do you know I wont agree that Musharraf is a liberal..I know he is a liberal,extreme liberal,so liberal that he did not even agree to taking back his own men who were killed in Kargil fiasco..which the brave general launched..but serendepity has its own virtues.At that time he had called them indigeneous Kashmiri fighters while it was proved beyond doubt that they were Pak regulars. I agree as a president he has been better than most previous rulers of Pak,but that he could/ever wanted to control Jehadis(especially the ones fighting in Kashmir or for Kashmir) is something beyond doubt.Being a Kashmiri myself I do read a couple of Pak dailies,and have a few friends across.I know there are far too many lobbies and groups in Pakistan on the J-issue alone,though I may not be as informed as you. The liberal lobby is small but extremely well informed far better than most pseudos we have here but alas who cares for Ayazs and Irfans. By the way great rhetoricians of past came from Kashmir ,there name callers came from where...i wouldnt know... R On 8/10/07, yasir ~ wrote: > > Rashneek > > I'm not sure how to reply to you, since you are using the usual > rhetoric to answer an analysed observation i made. I am not even sure > you understood what I wrote with the hammerhead reply. > > Yes there may be a difference of perspectives. While I may incline > towards a number of them, in my mail the theoretical underpinning as > that within the Pakistan, US and Indian governments there are > competing ideas, lobbies, policies regimes - take your pick of concept > - it will suffice. If we accept this much than my email will seem more > digestable. The consequence is that we take Pakistan and the Pakistani > government and the Pakistani Armed forces ( or the US or the Indian > for the sake of concept) as 'simply' a monolithic entity which is also > at the same time an astounding threat - but rather organizations of > people which have differing and multiple agendas. That is, if there is > a jihadi and confrontatinal lobby within, there is an equally and more > dominant at the moment liberal/left/dovish/other lobby-alliance which > is waging its ideological war against the jihadi (under threat) idea. > > You may not agree but Musharraf is liberal in his general outlook. he > may be authoritarian and may switch to hard rhetoric and actions which > are jihadi and/ or nationalist in tone. An overview of past > editorials will confirm this, if you are in doubt. On the ground the > general opening up of cultural activities and media (however > contested) is a better argument. > > The J-lobby however, which has recently been in the backroom, has been > pushing and shoving throughout. My email, so Rashneek, pointed out > that Musharraf beset to some extent by internal opposition (Supreme > Court, Taliban-Waziristan, etc), while taking pressure to perform (re > Taliban) from the US, with recent statements about US forces landing > in Pakistan, pulled off an effective policy-perceptions exercise, by > not going to the Kabul Jirga, issuing statements of islamic-national > solidarity ( re Major Tanvir - the subject of the e-mail ), talking > about declaring an Emergency in the country ( as the J-lobby would > like in addition to taking a confrontational stance to the US) which > would have been a desperate attempt to curb political opposition as > well as from the Supreme Court, having Choudhary Shujaat take the > blame for suggesting the emergency (thereby satisfying his right wing > support) and later negating it - having come back full circle. > > No India oe Kashmir does not figure in this very much. > I dont know about the land of genies or paris but no, my words do not > betray me. > > best > > y > > > > > On 8/9/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Yasir, > > > > No matter what you tried to write about this post..your words seemed to > be > > simply betraying you somehow.Let us defend the indefensible....right... > > This just shows how our "indigeneous terrorists " sorry freedom fighters > are > > but mere killing machines/pawns in hands of a bigger genie. > > > > Regards > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/9/07, yasir ~ wrote: > > > > > > imho this was a PR exercise to engage the hawks on all sides within > > > the ranks and parliament, those wanting rapproachment with the > > > Taliban, lobbies in the US, but not so much those in India. The > > > exercise involved announcing that emergency was being discussed, then > > > obfuscated statements by senior politicians that indeed yes or no, and > > > finally a no, no emergency will be declared after due deliberations. > > > but agreed it was a rush alright. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/9/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > What else does one expect out of Pakistan.Whoever said Kashmiri > Freedom > > > > struggle was indigeneous and started the Jashn may eat his words > > please........ > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/8/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says > > Pakistan > > > > > Govt., official > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:09:14 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:09:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ayaz Amir on Pakistan's LIBERAL general-Friday column in Dawn Message-ID: <13df7c120708100339w6d36884chfbb3afbb267420ea@mail.gmail.com> *EMERGENCY, martial law, election in uniform, election from these assemblies, no return of Nawaz Sharif, a deal with Benazir on Gen Musharraf's terms, general elections to suit the general's convenience: this is the nonsense that Pakistan faces. And all because of one man and his paranoid desire to cling to power, no matter what the consequences. A fine gift to the country on its 60th birthday. On a sinking ship any captain with a semblance of honour and sense of duty is first concerned about the safety of his passengers and crew. He is the last man to leave the ship. In our case this concept of honour has been turned on its head. A helmsman for eight years, not satisfied that he has been around for so long, is concerned only about himself. His ship is sinking but he wants everyone to go down with him. This has nothing to do with the Constitution, or the 17th Amendment or any other legal document. This is megalomania pure and simple (my dictionary defining megalomania thus: obsession with the exercise of power…delusion about one's own power or importance, typically as a symptom of manic or paranoid disorder). *It is also akin to Hitler's mental condition in his bunker as the Red Army closed in, determined to take the German nation down with him. That is why he ordered a 'scorched earth' policy, the destruction of everything, including basic infrastructure, the last embers of his anger not so much against his enemies as against his own people who he felt had not been strong or Aryan enough to prevail against the odds. (A good thing for Germany his orders weren't carried out.) Wounded, stricken, paralysed…we are running out of words and metaphors to describe this dispensation in its last throes. No one has cornered or paralysed Pakistan's imitation Cromwell. He has brought all this on himself – the author of his own misfortunes, his powers of imagination circumscribed by his fears. He feels he is riding a tiger and will be devoured if he gets down. This is wrong imagery. We are a forgiving nation. We did nothing to Yayha Khan, who presided over Pakistan's biggest disgrace. Nothing ever happened to that other military hero, Lt Gen Amir Abdullah Khan 'Tiger' Niazi, who surrendered to Jagjit Singh Aurora in Dhaka's Race Course Ground. The tiger and his riding are only in Musharraf's imagination. Provided he can bring himself to trust the Constitution, provided even at this late stage he can think of something beyond his survival, he can still play a role in the transition from this wretched halfway house, betwixt military authoritarianism and democracy, to something more closely resembling democracy. But how do you treat a victim of his own fears? About 'wehm' or nameless suspicions it is said even the great Hakim Luqman had no cure. Musharraf wants everything tailor-made to his fears. He wants to remain army chief. He wants to become president for another five years while still retaining his army position. He wants to be elected by these assemblies when their own tenures are about to finish. He wants general elections in which his allies are assured of victory. He wants to keep Nawaz Sharif out of the political arena. He wants to cut a deal with Benazir on his terms. A thousand desires, each more pressing than the other. Alas, the time for them is past. For seven and a half years Pakistan lay at Musharraf's feet. I do not exaggerate: he did as he pleased. The holy fathers danced to his tune and gave him the 17th Amendment, parliament was a rubber stamp and political parties were supine. Things have changed. March 9 happened when Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry stood up to military diktat. Then May 12 when the MQM, trying to be more loyal than the king, overplayed its hand in Karachi, leading to the killing of move than 40 people. Then July 20, when the Supreme Court bench headed by Justice Ramday wrote judicial history by declaring invalid all the steps taken against the Chief Justice. This was the first such reverse suffered by a military ruler in Pakistan's history. The republic we await is yet far away. But something has happened. The Pakistani nation was so demoralised it had even stopped dreaming. That gift if nothing else now stands restored. In this new mood the people of Pakistan won't put up with such things as the imposition of emergency. As for martial law, the last option of tinpot patriarchs in the terminal stages of distress, its first casualty will be Musharraf, and its second the army when it shoulders the onus of a move bound to be reviled across the political and social spectrum. This has not been a good period for the army's standing with the Pakistani public. We don't need this gulf to widen. And Pakistan can do without sinking to the level of Myanmar. Lord in heaven, after 60 years of existence still stuck at the beginning, still trying to figure out our first steps. Don't we deserve better than this? Was this the land of hope and freedom envisaged by Iqbal and Jinnah – a playground to some of the most incompetent straw-packed heroes it has been the lot of any Third World country to endure? Top brass stacked with favourites, the criterion for promotion these past eight years loyalty rather than competence in the field. Look at the Vice Chief: a veritable replica of Genghis Khan. A good thing any test of arms is the last thing on the general staff's mind, otherwise the kind of steeped-in-politics command we have right now would be hard put to maintain its own in the field. Of what use our eastern cantonments? Time to dismantle them and turn them into defence housing colonies. Will F-16s and a new GHQ make us look better and more respected in the comity of nations? As for our nuke capability, for all the good it is doing us, the time may have come to hawk it as high-grade scrap on the international market. The stupid games we play and have been playing for the last 60 years. The imposition of emergency for what? To save Pakistan or save someone's skin? Pakistan will be saved and preserved by its people, not for the next ten years but a thousand years. The space for freedom acquired over the last six months is a gift from no one. It has been won by the spirit and doughtiness of the Pakistani people: Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, Justice Rana Bhagwandas, the judges' bench headed by Justice Ramday, the judges who resigned and those who showed solidarity with the judicial movement, the lawyers of Pakistan in the forefront of this movement, the leadership of the bar led by Munir Malik, the lawyers who defended the Chief Justice, especially Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan, Kurd who set the movement alight with his oratory, activists of political parties, ordinary people of this country who in their thousands greeted the Chief Justice. Let me not forget Javed Hashmi who manfully endured prison and on his release by the Supreme Court has received a hero's welcome. He speaks now in a language marked by conviction and seriousness. Did the people of Pakistan do all this so as to endure another round of dictatorship? The future beckons. The Supreme Court is hearing the petition of Nawaz Sharif and Shahbaz Sharif regarding their return to the country. The government is already afraid – afraid of the tumult sure to arise when the Sharifs finally return. The lawyers are gearing up to challenge any move to get Musharraf 'reelected' by these assemblies. The Q League is frightened and its leadership does not know what to do. The country is reaching out to the future, bracing for change. There could be no greater sign of weakness or failure than the imposition of emergency. The generalissimo on more than one occasion has pooh-poohed this idea. Is this another solemn pledge about to be broken? *Over the last eight years we have had our ears filled with talk of commando courage. Isn't it time to honour the code of the commando for once? There is no need to be afraid of the Constitution. There is a right way of doing things and if this road is followed, many of the things that seem threatening may not be that frightening after all. Every military ruler in our history has had to be pushed out. Why not do things differently this time? * -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 16:22:47 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:52:47 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708100321i5b180cebya4a4f60b86afbc86@mail.gmail.com> References: <764251.40202.qm@web57209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <13df7c120708082129i5b8b236dkb8c618623a4edfe9@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0708090424p214c075eu4d04aba8fbfdde2@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708090432y773e48d8jd32bb524ffb58454@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0708100302g9b0253bs91e6b3ed8e9c6c9b@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708100321i5b180cebya4a4f60b86afbc86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708100352k13ccb45bi47bfce796cb26609@mail.gmail.com> Rashneek, in his most stressed out defensive interview on tv in March? (he had confined and attemped to fire the SC chief justice, and he was being told by the US that he was under-performing) when asked what he predicted for the future, he said the confrontation between liberal and extreme elements was most crucial. I find this very agreeable as a statement. you know iqbal was a kashmiri pandit :: Saray jahaan say achha .... :) On 8/10/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > By the way great rhetoricians of past came from Kashmir ,there name callers > came from where...i wouldnt know... > > R > From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Aug 10 19:13:20 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:43:20 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] William Dalrymple: Lessons from the British Raj (1857-2007) Message-ID: <20070810134320.GA40662@xs4all.nl> At the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the Indian Insurgency (sept 1857) NB Le Monde Diplomatique has an (actually several) english editions, and is worth following. Check the website. This month, for instance, there is a path-breaking article by Jean Bricmont, where he argues that the disaster of the Left in Europe, cq the 'Global North', is that it is unable to accept that political progress now is in the Global South (e.g. South America), and that the economic model it defends - unsuccesfully - is an outworn Keynesian one based on (neo-)colonialist exploitation. with permission from: From: Le Monde diplomatique Date: 7 ao?t 2007 10:47 Subject: Lessons from the British Raj To: Le Monde diplomatique Le Monde diplomatique ----------------------------------------------------- August 2007 `THOSE WHO FAIL TO LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DESTINED TO REPEAT IT' Lessons from the British Raj ___________________________________________________________ Today West and East face each other uneasily across a divide that many see as religious war. Lessons can be learned from the mistakes of British imperial arrogance in India 150 years ago, and its misplaced idealism. by William Dalrymple ___________________________________________________________ In early May 1857 - almost exactly 150 years ago - the British Empire found itself threatened by the largest and bloodiest anti-colonial revolt against any European empire anywhere in the world in the entire course of the 19th century. There is much about the history of British imperial adventures in the East at this time, and the massive insurgency this provoked, which is strikingly and uneasily familiar to us today. There are also many lessons that can be learned from the mistakes that the imperial arrogance, as well as the misplaced idealism, of the British led them to make. The British had been trading in India, in the form of the East India Company, since the early 17th century. But this commercial relationship changed during the 18th century as the power of the Mughal Empire began to fade. To protect its trade, its rights to extract minerals, and its wider geopolitical interests, the company began to recruit local troops and conquer territory. Then at the end of the 18th century a new group of conservatives came into power, determined radically to expand British power: the Governor General, Lord Wellesely, the elder brother of the Duke of Wellington, called his new aggressive approach the Forward Policy. It was in effect a Project for the New British Century, as Wellesley made it clear he was determined to establish British dominance over all its European rivals - especially the French. He also firmly believed it was better pre-emptively to remove hostile Muslim regimes that presumed to resist the West's growing power. There were, as ever, many voices in the more rightwing sections of the press who supported this view. The puppet Muslim allies who effectively allowed the Empire to run their affairs could stay for the time being, but those governments that were intent on resisting the advance of the West were simply not to be tolerated any longer. Against a `furious fanatic' Nor was there any doubt who would be the first to be targeted: a dictator whose family had usurped power in a military coup. According to British sources close to government he was "a cruel and relentless enemy", an "intolerant bigot", a "furious fanatic" who had "perpetually on his tongue the projects of Jihad". This dictator was also deemed to be an "oppressive and unjust ruler... [and a] perfidious negotiator". Wellesley had arrived in India in 1798 with specific instructions to effect regime change and replace Tipu Sultan of Mysore with a western-backed puppet. First, however, Wellesley had to justify a policy whose outcome had already been decided. Wellesley began to mobilise his forces: military, logistical but most importantly rhetorical, for to get agreement for an expensive and divisive war is never easy, and it is only by marshalling a body of apparently convincing evidence against your opponent that the belly-aching anti-imperialists at home - in this case the coterie that had gathered around Edmund Burke - could be shut up. It was with this in mind that Wellesley and his allies began a comprehensive campaign of vilification against Tipu, portraying him as a vicious and aggressive Muslim monster who planned to wipe the British off the map of India. This essay in imperial villain-making duly opened the way for a lucrative conquest and the installation of a more pliable regime which allowed the conquerors to give the impression they were handing the country back to its rightful owners while in reality maintaining firm western control. The British progressed from removing threatening Muslim rulers to annexing even the most pliant Islamic states. In February 1856 they marched into Avadh on the lame excuse that the Nawab was "excessively debauched". To support the annexation, a "dodgy dossier" was produced before parliament, so full of distortions and exaggerations that one British official who had been involved in the operation described the Parliamentary Blue Book on Oudh as "a fiction of official penmanship, [an] Oriental romance" that was refuted "by one simple and obstinate fact": that the conquered people of Avadh clearly "preferred the slandered regime" of the Nawab "to the grasping but rose-coloured government of the Company". In this way, by early 1857, the East India Company was directly ruling about two-thirds of the subcontinent. Ruled and redeemed Many British officials who believed in the "forward" policy were also nursing plans to impose not just British laws and technology on India, but also British values. India would be not only ruled, but redeemed. Local laws which offended Christian sensibilities were abrogated: the burning of widows, for example, was banned. One of the Company directors, Charles Grant, spoke for many when he wrote of how he believed Providence had brought the British to India for a higher purpose: "Is it not necessary to conclude that our Asiatic territories were given to us, not merely that we draw a profit from them, but that we might diffuse among their inhabitants, long sunk in darkness, the light of Truth?" If the tracts of the missionaries reinforced Muslim fears, increasing opposition to British rule and creating a constituency for the rapidly multiplying jihadists determined to stop the rule of the kafir infidels, so the existence of "Wahhabi conspiracies" to resist the Christians strengthened the conviction of the evangelicals that a "strong attack" was needed to take on such "Muslim fanatics". The reaction to this steady crescendo of insensitivity came in 1857 with the Great Mutiny. Soon after dawn on 11 May 1857, the Mughal Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar was saying his morning prayers in his oratory overlooking the river Jumna, when he saw a cloud of dust rising from the far side of the river. Minutes later, he was able to see its cause: 300 East India Company cavalrymen charging wildly towards his palace. The troops had ridden overnight from Meerut, where they had turned their guns on their British officers, and had come to Delhi to ask the Emperor to bestow his blessing on their mutiny. Shortly afterwards, the sepoys entered Delhi, massacred every Christian man, woman and child they could find, and declared the 82-year-old emperor to be their leader. Later they stood in the Chandni Chowk, the main street of Delhi, and asked people: "Brothers: are you with those of the faith?" British men and women who had converted to Islam - and there were a surprising number of those in Delhi - were not hurt; but Indians who had converted to Christianity were cut down immediately. As a letter sent out by the rebels' leaders subsequently put it: "The English are people who overthrow all religions... As the English are the common enemy of both [Hindus and Muslims, we] should unite in their slaughter... By this alone will the lives and faiths of both be saved." Before long the insurgency had snowballed into the largest anti-colonial revolt against any European empire in the 19th century. Of the 139,000 sepoys of the Bengal army all but 7,796 turned against their British masters. In many places the sepoys were supported by a widespread civilian rebellion. Atrocities abounded on both sides. Though it had many causes and reflected many deeply held political and economic grievances - particularly the feeling that the heathen foreigners were interfering with a part of the world to which they were entirely alien - the uprising was nevertheless articulated as a war of religion, and especially as a defensive action against the rapid inroads missionaries and Christian ideas were making in India, combined with a more generalised fight for freedom from western occupation. `Suicide ghazis' Although the great majority of the sepoys were Hindus, there were many echoes of the Islamic insurgencies the US fights today in Iraq and Afghanistan: in Delhi a flag of jihad was raised in the principal mosque, and many of the resistance fighters described themselves as mujahideen or jihadists. Indeed, by the end of the siege, after a significant proportion of the sepoys had melted away, the proportion of jihadists in the rebellion's storm centre of Delhi grew to be about half of the total rebel force, and included a regiment of "suicide ghazis" who had vowed never to eat again and to fight until they met death at the hands of the kafirs, "for those who have come to die have no need for food". The siege came to its climax on 14 September 1857, when British forces attacked the city. They proceeded to massacre not just the rebel sepoys and the jihadists, but also the ordinary citizens of the Mughal capital. In one neighbourhood alone, Kucha Chelan, some 1,400 unarmed citizens were cut down. "The orders went out to shoot every soul," recorded one young officer, Edward Vibart. "It was literally murder ... I have seen many bloody and awful sights lately but such a one as I witnessed yesterday I pray I never see again. The women were all spared but their screams, on seeing their husbands and sons butchered, were most painful... Heaven knows I feel no pity, but when some old grey bearded man is brought and shot before your very eyes, hard must be that man's heart I think who can look on with indifference..." Those city dwellers who survived the killing were driven out into the countryside to fend for themselves. Delhi, a bustling and sophisticated city of half a million souls, was left an empty ruin. Though the Mughal imperial family had surrendered peacefully, most of the emperor's 16 sons were tried and hung, while three were shot in cold blood, having first freely given up their arms, then been told to strip naked: "In 24 hours I disposed of the principal members of the house of Timur the Tartar," Captain William Hodson wrote to his sister the following day. "I am not cruel, but I confess I did enjoy the opportunity of ridding the earth of these wretches." The captured emperor was put on trial and charged - quite inaccurately - with being behind an international Muslim conspiracy to subvert the British Empire, stretching from Mecca and Iran to the walls of the Red Fort. Contrary to the evidence that the uprising broke out first among the overwhelmingly Hindu sepoys, the British prosecutor argued that, "toMusalman intrigues and Mahommedan conspiracy we may mainly attribute the dreadful calamities of 1857". Like some of the ideas propelling more recent adventures in the East, this was a ridiculous and bigoted over-simplification of a far more complex reality. As today, politicians found it easier to blame mindless "Muslim fanaticism" for the bloodshed they had unleashed than to examine the effects of their own foreign policies. Reinforcing hatreds Yet the lessons of the bloody uprising of 1857 are very clear. No one likes people of a different faith conquering them, taking their land, or force-feeding them improving ideas at the point of a bayonet. The British in 1857 discovered what Israel and the US are learning now: that nothing so easily radicalises a people against them, or so undermines the moderate aspect of Islam, as aggressive western intrusion in the East. The histories of Islamic fundamentalism and western imperialism have after all, long been closely and dangerously intertwined. In a curious but very concrete way, the fundamentalists of all three Abrahamic faiths have always needed each other to reinforce each other's prejudices and hatreds. The venom of one provides the lifeblood of the others. The violent suppression of the great uprising of 1857 was a pivotal moment in the history of British imperialism in India. It marked the end both of the East India Company and the Mughal dynasty, the two principal forces that had shaped Indian history over the previous 300 years, and replaced both with undisguised imperial rule by the British government. Shortly after Zafar's corpse had been tipped into its anonymous Burmese grave, Queen Victoria accepted the title "Empress of India" from Disraeli, initiating a very different period of direct imperial rule. Yet in many ways the legacy of the period is still with us, and there is a direct link between the jihadists of 1857 and those we face today. For the reaction of some of the Muslim ulema after 1857 was to reject the West and the gentle Sufi traditions of the Mughal emperors, who they tended to regard as western puppets; instead they attempted to return to pure Islamic roots. So was founded a Wahhabi-like madrasa at Deoband which went back to Koranic basics. One hundred and forty years later, it was out of Deobandi madrasas in Pakistan that the Taliban emerged to create the most retrograde Islamic regime in modern history, a regime that in turn provided the crucible from which emerged al-Qaida, the most radical Islamic counterattack the West has yet had to face. So does history repeat itself: not only are westerners again playing their old game of installing puppet regimes, propped up by western garrisons, for their own political ends, but more alarmingly the intellectual attitudes sustained by such adventures remain intact. Despite over 25 years of assault by Edward Said and his followers, old style Orientalism is still alive and kicking, its prejudices quite intact, with Samuel Huntingdon, Bernard Lewis and Charles Krauthammer in the roles of the new Mills and Macauleys. Through the pens of neo-con writers, the old colonial idea of the Muslim ruler as the decadent Oriental despot lives on; and as before it is effortlessly projected on to a credulous public by warmongers in order to justify their imperial projects. Today, West and East again face each other uneasily across a divide that many see as religious war. Suicide jihadists fight what they see as a defensive action against their Christian enemies, and again innocent civilians are slaughtered. As before, western evangelical politicians are apt to cast their opponents and enemies in the role of "incarnate fiends" and simplistically conflate armed resistance to invasion and occupation with "pure evil." Again western countries, blind to the effects of their foreign policies, feel aggrieved and surprised to be attacked - as they see it - by mindless fanatics. There are clear lessons here. For, in the celebrated words of Edmund Burke, those who fail to learn from history are always destined to repeat it. ________________________________________________________ William Dalrymple is a writer and author, most recently, of The Last Mughal: The Fall of a Dynasty, Delhi, 1857 (Bloomsbury, London, 2006) which has been awarded the Duff Cooper Prize for History and Biography Original text in English ________________________________________________________ ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (c) 1997-2007 Le Monde diplomatique ----- End forwarded message ----- From vishal.rawlley at gmail.com Fri Aug 10 21:30:22 2007 From: vishal.rawlley at gmail.com (Vishal Rawlley) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:30:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Bombay Taxi Project - Meter Down Podcast In-Reply-To: <47415.79373.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <31d5ea920708091025k28c9769fpac1f12314cb04117@mail.gmail.com> <47415.79373.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31d5ea920708100900u12367945je0c3759b6e039188@mail.gmail.com> dear amy, my conversatins with taxi drivers are immigrant to immigrant. most of us in the city are immigrants. i am asked questions by them too: am i married? what rent do i pay? why am i not on my bike today? where is madam these days? why dont you join this pyramid scheme? - thery are equally curious about me, they give me advice on life. i come from a documentary background, using audio recordings, photos and video to document various aspects of the city. however once you congeal all the metaphors from the research, it can be best, at times, to write a narrative based on that. a screen writer friend of mine has done exactly that. a beautiful story called 'ek tera saath' or '1-13-7' in numericals that reads the same in hindi. this is a story of a taxi driver and his devotion for lord krishna, who appears to him in person one day... anyhow a video documentary could still be a wonderful exercise. i love kabi's audio recordings though. sometimes audio recordings can be more evocative. if you have any further ideas that you might want to share, please do. but what is that makes taxi drivers in bombay more fascinating to you and kabi than taxi drivers in the US and UK? why the inter-continental ambition? -vishal On 8/9/07, Amy West wrote: > > dear kabi and vishal, > i was reading these emails on Sarai and thought i'd respond to both of > you. for me, i have been interested for a long time in doing a project - > eventually a documentary? - on taxi drivers. my interest is regarding the > immigration aspect and the flash fiction-esque way in which we jump into the > backseat of a cab and can engage in someone's life for a few minutes. i have > ideas fleshed out on all kinds of metaphors with regard to the idea of > transport and the interplay with the citizen vs. immigrant, but this > requires an in-depth conversation. > > any chance there is a desire to produce an inter-continental look at this > (i am located in the States) and if so, can we get interest in terms of > support under which we can work to get these narratives published or > eventually put into a documentary? i may have the ability - once there are a > collection of narratives to get the documentary piece figured out on this > end...any ideas? > > best, > amy > > > *Vishal Rawlley * wrote: > > dear kabi, > your project sounds very interesting. i have been working on/ with taxi > drivers for a long time and i find some of the ideas you have very similar > to mine. > > i have extensively documented the sticker art on mumbai taxis for several > years, this project is part of my documentation of city signage called > Typocty. Please see www.typocity.com and under the Documentation + > Analysis > section scroll down to 'Taxis: number plates + sticker art'. You can find > more on the radiumwallas and their craft under the Projects + Workshops > section - click on Taxi Art. > > i have also conducted a number of workshops with radiumwallas for art > students and also collaborated with them on design projects. i know a > number > of radium wallas and taxi drivers on a personal basis. they know about my > interest in them are are quite friendly now. > > i find your idea of recording conversations with them very interesting. a > oral history project that i initiated years ago is called 'Bombay Sonic', > one episode of this project can be listened to at: > www.bombay-arts.com/netart/bombaysonic.html (my website is > www.bombay-arts.com ) > > i have also been interviewing taxi drivers for a long time, mainly to work > out narratives for a potetial story series called 'Taxi Tales'. i do not > have recordings, only notes, as my conversatons are far too many and > casual > and spontaneous. i have also collected Taxi Tales from other friends who > have had interesting conversations with taxi drivers. > > i am glad that someone is actually recording these conversations. good > luck > with your project. > > best, > vishal > > On 8/3/07, kabi cubby sherman wrote: > > > > As part of a larger project on Bombay taxi drivers ( kaali-peeli ki > > kahani), I have been recording conversations with cab drivers, with > their > > permission of course, as we ride from one place to another in the city. > I > > am now podcasting these conversations as episodes in a podcast called > Meter > > Down. The language is Hindi. I consider this project an oral history, a > > verbal record, that explores the questions of migration and mulak, > bombay > > and change, taxi-driving and life. The cabbies, of course, also tell > some > > wonderful stories. > > > > You can listen to these conversations at http://meterdown.wordpress.com, > > a blog on which I also post photos of the drivers and their taxis. > Outtakes > > of some of the wonderful bits of these conversations are also posted on > the > > site for listener convenience. > > I am an ex-taxi driver myself and have been working on this Bombay taxi > > driver project for a year now. Taxi drivers write the city: they move > > through its streets and collect its stories. They track its changes > while > > journeying with their passengers through its transformations and they > > experience the absence of the old. Yet they are also the subjects of > these > > changes. Driver-owned old taxis are being forced out of service and > their > > permits cancelled. New private taxi fleets with 'modern' vehicles are > vying > > for these permits but refuse to hire most of the drivers. The drivers' > > futures are uncertain. A majority of the drivers are migrants, each with > his > > own sense of home. I am interested in this internal migration, the > movement > > of people from the villages to a city that looks away from these > villages > > and outward into a globalising world. what did the taxi drivers leave > > behind? what dreams did they bring and what dreams remain? where is home > > now? > > > > > > > > The project also includes documenting and photographing the personal and > > creative designs that cab drivers employ to make each taxi a signifier > of > > the self: words on the back windows that act like clues, rexine > mudflaps, > > mirrored ceilings, patterened seat-covers, radium patterning and painted > > mechanical meters. I print these images to fabric and create textile > pieces. > > I buy old steering wheels and wrap them using plastic flourescent rope, > > making patterns by putting radium underneath, as I learned to do from an > old > > radiumwala. I use rearview mirrors and photos of drivers' eyes to make > 'gaze > > pieces'. > > > > > > But it is these podcasts that are the ballast. Please give them a > listen. > > > > > > I have currently posted two episodes on the blog and plan to post > another > > conversation every 15-20 days. I appreciate feedback, suggestions, > > critiques, etc. There is a place on the blog for comments or you can > email > > me at this ID. > > > > If you have Itunes, you can search for 'Meter Down' and subscribe to the > > podcast or download episodes from there, esp. if bandwidth is a problem. > > Meter Down is also listed in some podcast directories such as Podcast > Alley, > > Odeo (tho only 1 episode showing) , podcastingnews, and Google using > meter > > down podcast search terms. > > > > regards, > > kabi > > > > http://meterdown.wordpress.com > > > > --------------------------------- > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > ------------------------------ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > > From pukar at pukar.org.in Fri Aug 10 15:15:20 2007 From: pukar at pukar.org.in (PUKAR) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:15:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [announcements] India China Fellowship: Application deadline extended Message-ID: <00a301c7db33$33338d20$3466c2cb@freeda> India China Institute - PUKAR (Local Partner) invites applications for the India China Fellows Program The India China Institute (ICI) based at The New School, New York, invites applications for its second fellowship program. Theme: Prosperity and Inequality: India and China India China Fellows Program (ICFP), ICI seeks applicants who are highly accomplished, innovative and emerging leaders with 5 to 15 years of professional experience in their respective fields. Applicants from diverse backgrounds such as public administration, academics, media, civil society, art, architecture and private entrepreneurship are encouraged to apply. Applicants should address the program theme with particular focus on regional development, migration, and design strategies. Priority will be given to applicants who are sensitive to social, cultural and gender aspects. Age limit: Up to 45 years This two year fellowship requires: 1. Indian citizenship and proof of residency for more than 5 years (Passport / Ration Card / Voter's Identity Card / Electricity bill) 2. Masters Degree or equivalent experience 3. Willingness to be an active and essential participant in an interactive, intellectual, collaborative research project that will be innovative and influential 4. Commitment to participate in 4 international residencies: . March 17-29, 2008, NY . November 23-30, 2008, India . March 2009, China . April 2010 (tbd) 5. Total fluency in English, working knowledge of the computer and access to internet for communication and research purpose (A letter from a professor/ supervisor about proficiency in English is acceptable in place of TOEFL scores). 6. The selected fellows could continue their current profession during their fellowship period. They will be assisted in the research proposal, travel, workshops and compensated appropriately by an honorarium 7. Applications must be postmarked no later than September 15, 2007. Late applications will not be considered. No online submissions will be accepted. Application Forms should be downloaded from: www.indiachina.newschool.edu For further information, please write or email: Dr. Anita Patil-Deshmukh Senior Advisor, India China Institute C/o PUKAR, 1-4, 2nd floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P M Road, Fort, Mumbai, 400 001 Tel: 91 22 6505 3302 Fax: 91 22 6664 0561 E-mail : deshmuka at newschool.edu; pukar at pukar.org.in PUKAR (Partners for Urban Knowledge Action and Research) Address:: 1-4, 2nd Floor, Kamanwala Chambers, Sir P. M. Road, Fort, Mumbai 400 001 Telephone:: +91 (22) 6574 8152 Fax:: +91 (22) 6664 0561 Email:: pukar at pukar.org.in Website:: www.pukar.org.in -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Sat Aug 11 12:25:20 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:25:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Merinews.com - Jashn-e-Azadi: Half-truths All the Way Message-ID: Jashn-e-Azadi: Half-truths All the Way Rashneek *Jashn-e-Azadi, the documentary made on the Kashmir issue, presents only half-truths about Kashmir; it disturbs many of the viewers, who know the 'reality'. A good documentary does not take sides; it simply documents and presents facts as they are. * * Log on to the article link and comment* - http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=125895 Thanks -- *Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: **www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com* *Website: **www.adityarajkaul.tk* __,_._,___ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 11 19:30:05 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., officia In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708100352k13ccb45bi47bfce796cb26609@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <585773.59953.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yasir Allow me a few observations. 1. Iqbal was not a Kashmiri Pandit. His ancestors were Kashmiri Pandits. Iqbal was a Muslim. 2. Your mentioning the Kashmiri Pandit connection only serves as a reminder that a once Kashmiri Pandit majority region in just a few hundred years became a Muslim majority area and along with it the reminder brings the history of how the switchover took place. This is not the time and place to go into it. It is a painful reminder. Calling Iqbal a Kashmiri Pandit is an abuse of Kashmiri Pandit sensitivities about a unique ethnicity which is on the verge of extinction. 3. "Saaray Jahaan say achhaa...." is one of the National Songs of India. It is amusing that it recognised as being so with Indians not realising the full import of this "Taraana e Hind". "Taraana e Hind" celebrates and declares the Claim of Muslims on "Hind". It that respect it is not very much different from Iqbal's "Taraana e Milli". It does not address all the people of "Hind". It is meant only for "Muslims". 4. Before ill-informed hackles become antennae tuning into presumed suspicious and prejudiced intent, let me explain. After celebrating the glory of "Hindustaan" in the first few couplets, Iqbal reveals his mind in: ai aab-e-ruud-e-gangaa vo din hai yaad tujh ko utaraa tere kinaare jab kaaravaa.N hamaaraa Iqbal asks River Ganga to recollect the time when "hamaara kaarvaan" descended on it's banks. The "haamaara' is the Muslim collective, the "Ummah" in the form of advent of Islam. The indigenous faith people were always resident on the banks of Ganga. Similarly, lack of knowledge about Islamic terminology has led to a spin quite different from the inherent meaning in: mazhab nahii.n sikhaataa aapas me.n bair rakhanaa hindii hai.n ham vatan hai hindustaa.N hamaaraa "Mazhab" does not refer to "Religions" of Hindustaan being asked to not harbour enmity against each other. "Mazhab" (variant of Maddhab in Arabic) is a specific term used in Islam for "sects". The religion of Islam by itself is called "Deen". "Sunni" and "Shia" would be "Mazhabs". The couplet addresses itself to Muslims belonging to various sects in Islam Yasir, your well intentioned messages addressed to Rashneek also merit comment but I will not inflict too much on you. In my opinion your grossly underestimate both the strength of the J-Lobby in Pakistan and the pervasiveness of the J-Sentiment amongst the masses of Pakistan. The "askari" (armed) J-Sentiment is directed against both people of other "Deen" (Religions) and followers of differing "maddhabs" (sects within Islam) I personally monitor only 3 Pakistani TV Channels and Internet editions of 3 Pakistani English Newspapers. The picture that emerges is quite quite different from your all too optimistic scenarios. It is likely to be more horrifying with greater exposure to Pakistani Media, especially the "indigenous languages" newspapers. Yasir, it is simplistically believed that the "hate others" attitude in Pakistan is nurtured and propagated only by the "Madrassas". The "hate" indoctrination of young Pakistani minds is an automatic product of the syllabi in Govt. Schools. In is in those schools that the overwhelmingly overwhelming majority of Pakistani children school. If this interests you, please do get in touch with "Sustainable Development Policy Institute - Islamabad" ( http://www.sdpi.org/ ) The Institute's A M Nayyar and Ahmed Salim have done some good work in researching Pakistani textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civic Studies. About the "true face" of Musharraf, the less said the better. Only the Govt. of India seems to be the one that believes his "sincerity" in "normalising" relations between the India and Pakistan. Kshmendra Kaul yasir ~ wrote: Rashneek, in his most stressed out defensive interview on tv in March? (he had confined and attemped to fire the SC chief justice, and he was being told by the US that he was under-performing) when asked what he predicted for the future, he said the confrontation between liberal and extreme elements was most crucial. I find this very agreeable as a statement. you know iqbal was a kashmiri pandit :: Saray jahaan say achha .... :) On 8/10/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > By the way great rhetoricians of past came from Kashmir ,there name callers > came from where...i wouldnt know... > > R > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 11 22:46:59 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:46:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad Message-ID: <46BDEF0A.5030604@sarai.net> Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org and the Sarai Reader List) The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown how fragile the freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks whenever a sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments challenged'. Are all these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing screenings and readings suffering from some early childhood trauma that makes it difficult for them to countenance growing up and acquiring the ability to listen to contrary point of view? How long are we to be held hostage to their infantile suffering? What is worse is the fact that the people who attacked her, and have made public threats to kill her - activists and elected representatives belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated Razakars, were arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message that the state sends out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken to a police station to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be splashed in the media, go home and make some more threats" see - http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express today, it is Ms. Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - the same section of the penal code that was earlier used to detain the unfortunate art student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and Christian sentiments'. So as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh is concerned, person who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a prominent politician is innocent, and the writer herself, who has never threatened to kill anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is guilty of inciting hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be no greater travesty of justice than this incident, and it once again demonstrates how willing state power in India is to dance in tandem with bigots. It happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress ruled Andhra Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled West Bengal. Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and cussedness is not the monopoly of the self appointed representatives of any one community or political tendency. If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their ardour by the viciousness of those who have appointed themselves the guardians of Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and Christian dignity in Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short memories) let us remember that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and hounded and her publication banned in an Indian state, it just happenned to be in West Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and this happenned because the secular progressive left front regime, led by the Contractors Party of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the sanitized cultural landscape that they so vigorously uphold and maintain in that state. The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found it necessary to publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its issue dated November 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for this lengthy quotation) "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita (‘Split in Two’) because it was feared that the book would incite communal violence. At no point of time has the book been proscribed on political or literary grounds. In a government notification issued on November 28, the state LF government has formally invoked the ban under section 95 of the code of Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian Penal Code (where it is considered a criminal and punishable act to create enmity, rivalry, and hatred amongst religious communities. State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said that there was apprehension expressed widely that the book would spark off communal tension, and that very many experts in the field supported this view. The LF government has banned the book for the sake of the upkeep of democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have expressed similar feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time the Left Front has been office in Bengal not a single book or publication has been proscribed on political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a different matter altogether if a publication or a book incited terrorism and communalism. Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee whose department issued the notification banning the book, said that he had himself read the book “several times over.” that he has “persuaded at least 25 noted specialists to go through the book critically” and that they have recommended the book to be not fit for circulation among the reading public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book contain very derogatory and provocative references that go against the grain of the tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. Several noted authors including the poet Sunil Gangopadhyay, the novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and Syed Mustafa Siraj, the Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman Chatterjee, as well as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, Subrata Mukherjee, among others, have come openly out against the book and have supported the decision by the state LF government to get the book banned. Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called Taslima Nasreen a blot on the world of women, has described the book as having no difference with a piece of pornography and has said that nobody ought to assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious community. The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s multi-volume autobiography has been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and Bengal with obscenity and has come under fire for its maligning and falsified personal references to the lives of several noted scholars of Bengal and Bangladesh as well. However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while speaking to the media in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact that portions of the book would cause religious disharmony to break out, with the religious fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame of communal fire. True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has supported Taslima Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has opposed the proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has chosen to hold her silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many other matters as well." It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. There is only one possible ethical response to this pathetic display of arrogance by the self appointed representatives of Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to ensure the widest possible circulation of these materials in the public domain. It is to organize as many screenings as possible of a film like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' (or any other film that is attacked in a similar fashion) and to hold public readings and distributions of the books of someone like Taslima Nasreen. In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay by Taslima Nasreen that had been first published in English in Sarai Reader 04: Turbuluence http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media She wrote - "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been banned earlier in Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. The communal tension raging through South Asia is not caused by my books but by other reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, the killing of Muslims in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the attacks against Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan have all occurred without any contribution from me. Even if I am an insignificant writer, I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that every human being is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the basis of gender, colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. Riots don’t break out because of what I write. But I am the one who is punished for what I write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has to suffer exile. I am the one who is homeless everywhere." If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and artists are not 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that they receive the hospitality that enables the conditions that allow their work, thought and expression to continue to have a public life. This means making sure that their work lives and continues to breathe in society, by any means necessary. For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, some of Taslima Nasrin's work is available in the form of downloadable pdfs from www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev Bhattacharya decided, after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals to ban her book, I decided to download the said book, make twenty six photocopies of the entire book bind them and distribute them free. That is one method to deal with censorship (formal or informal) I am sure that there are other, more creative methods out there as well. I would welcome practical suggestions from those in the community of the people who are reading this post about how these attacks on the freedom of expression may be confronted and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time for peaceful film watching and reading. best Shuddha From ysikand at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 09:50:49 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:50:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CM Naim on Attack on Taslima Nasreen Message-ID: <48097acc0708112120m35bcf3a0l60e5d7a219cb5a83@mail.gmail.com> THE OTHER ATTACK ON TASLIMA NASRIN AT HYDERABAD C.M. Naim [cmnaim at sbcglobal.net] On August 9, 2007, the Centre for Enquiry, Hyderabad, held a meeting at the local press club, to celebrate the publication of two Telugu books, both translations, one from the Bengali of Taslima Nasrin, and the other from the Chinese (via English) of Jung Chang. Since the two authors are victims of persecution in their home countries, the meeting was also a celebration of the fundamental human right of free expression and political dissent. The guest of honour was the Bangladeshi writer herself, who had flown in from Kolkota where she presently lives in a perilous and uncertain exile. As the meeting was coming to a close, it was disrupted by a small mob. This is how *The Hindu*, under the heading -- 'Taslima Roughed Up in Hyderabad,' reported the main events the following day: 'Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasrin was roughed up by legislators of the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM) and a mob led by them in the Press Club of Hyderabad on Thursday…. She had just completed her engagement when about 20 MIM activists, led by MLAs Syed Ahmed Pasha Qadri, Afsar Khan and Moazzam Khan, barged into the conference hall. She looked in disbelief as they hurled abuses against her. Demanding to know "who had mustered the guts to invite her to Hyderabad, they wanted Ms. Nasrin to be handed over to them. Without further warning, they began throwing books, bouquets, chairs, and whatever they could lay their hands on at her. Some persons in the mob almost got hold of her but Narisetti Innaiah, rationalist and chairman of the Center for Inquiry, who was her host, shielded her. He was injured in his face. A couple of journalists who went to their rescue also sustained injuries in the scuffle. Ms. Nasrin escaped unhurt though she was badly shaken by the sudden attack that came minutes after she made a categorical statement that she would continue to fight against evil "till my death".' I then looked up the same news on the websites of Hyderabad's two most widely read Urdu newspapers, *Siasat* and *Munsif*, and also the English language website of the former. What I found on August 10 did not come as a surprise at all. In fact, it was as I had expected on the basis of my experience of Urdu newspapers in Lucknow and Delhi. But what I read today (August 11) on the English language website indeed surprised me. It made me aware that things have changed more radically than I had thought. What I read on August 10 were two fiery, rabble-rousing statements in Urdu, but a more professional news report in English, no different from what I quoted above from *The Hindu*. Below I give in translation portions of the two Urdu reports. (But first an explanation of a phrase used below. * Gustakh-e-Rasul*, lit. one who insults the prophet. I abbreviate it as *GR* .): 1. In *Siasat*, dated August 10, under two headings: '*GR* Authoress Taslima Nasrin Attacked with Bouquets of Flowers' 'An Observance of What the Shari'at Commands or Merely a Political Ruse?' '. . . *GR* Taslima Nasrin succeeded in safely going back from Hyderabad, despite the fact that three MLAs, with some fifty supporters, threw flowers at her in the name of a protest. The shameless *GR* authoress, who stands next to Salman Rushdie, was taking part in a function organized by the Center for Enquiry at the Press Club, Somaji Goda, when three members of the Legislative Assembly, Muqtada Khan Afsar, Ahmad Pasha Qadiri, and Muazzam Khan, together with more than fifty of their supporters, arrived and, while using abusive language, did no more than cause a ruckus and some vandalism. All of them were unable to harm in the slightest a *GR*, not even a woman * GR*. A person despised in the Muslim world, against whom fatwas to kill have been issued, on such a person they threw [merely] bouquets that had been placed near the stage, when [in fact] there were not too many people present there to protect her…. Neither the police nor the Intelligence Service knew about the presence of Taslima Nasrin. That is why the MLAs had a fine opportunity to disrupt her pro*gr*am. However, a most opportune moment to enforce the law of Shari'a on that *GR* was wasted, what they did was only for political opportunism. The political ambitions of the protesters was also made evident by the fact that they dared not throw shoes or chappal at the *GR* who was only three or four feet away from them, but instead kept throwing bouquets. The Muslim Millat can tolerate every tyranny, injustice, and humiliation but it can never tolerate any disrespect to the Last of the Prophets (pbuh). Whenever anyone has shown such disrespect, Muslims have in turn shown no fear in bringing that person to his deserved end. It is a fact of history that the Faithful have never worried about consequences when it comes to punishing a person who defames the Prophet (pbuh).' 2. In *Munsif*, dated August 10, under three headings: 'An Attempt to Attack the *GR* and "Notorious in Time" Taslima Nasrin' 'The Bangladeshi Authoress Didn't Get Even a Scratch.' 'People say: 'The confused author should have been taught a severe lesson.' 'Three members of the legislative assembly, with some fifteen supporters, disrupted the meeting. They raised slogans and threw a bouquet of flowers and a ladies' handbag toward Taslima Nasrin. Taslima Nasrin hid in a panic behind her hosts and was not at all hurt. She was trembling in fear even though no protesters came near her or lay a hand on her…. 'Eyewitnesses say that the way this protest was conducted made it look like a welcoming ceremony with flowers instead. The MLAs and other protesters threw only flowers at Nasrin. They took flowers out of the bouquets set up in the hall, and threw them at her. Not one of the protesters had the courage to take off his shoes or chappals and hit Taslima with them, throw them at her, or at least point the same at her. It was perfectly legitimate [*ja'iz*] to attack Taslima Nasrin, to humiliate her, or to insult and mock her in any fashion. However, the MLAs and workers of a political party threw flowers, which had people's minds ringing with the old song, *'Baharo phul barsao, mera mahbub aayaa hai*.' 'What should have been done instead? Taslima Nasrin should have been dishonoured in such a manner that henceforth she'd never dare to return to Hyderabad. But that was not done. There was no police officer present there. Only two persons were trying to protect Taslima. The protesting MLAs made a lot of noise but showed no willingness to charge forward. Those who saw the whole thing call it a "drama." The leaders of this political party had thrown a pot of filth upon the editor of an Urdu newspaper in Mahdi Patnam, but now they showered only flowers on a *GR*. Today all was possible to teach a *GR* and a disparager of Islam what her end could be, but a political party of the city wasted the opportunity by seeking only cheap publicity. The leaders of this party drew revolvers in their tussle over one hundred yards of Waqf land, but cast only flowers at Taslima today….' Long accustomed to reading such blatantly rabble-rousing statements in the Urdu press of North India, I was not surprised to find the same in the Hyderabadi Urdu press. And the more professional report published on the English language website of *Siasat*, reflective of a kind of hypocrisy also found in North Indian Muslim circles, came not as a surprise either. One is always on one's best behaviour in English in India. Or so was the case, I thought. But today's web-edition of the English language *Siasat* carries an unsigned statement concerning the incident that tells me that things have indeed changed radically. The statement is headlined, 'Barking dogs never bite!', and reads as follows: 'It is said that 30 minutes are enough either to make or break anybody's career, reputation or life. In the wake of the incident of attack on Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreeen [sic] at press club on Thursday, it is indeed unbelievable that MIM MLAs got more than thirty minutes and instead of using this time to its maximum damage, they simply wasted it in chanting useless slogans and hurling flower bouquets knowing fully that they would get badly needed political mileage. 'They could not lift even a chair lying near by to attack her with strong impact though only a few persons were present there. It is nothing but a political gimmick played on her. 'The suicide bombers in Iraq are the best example to eliminate not only their targets but also themselves. And they are doing so with an eye blinker. Imagine, what could they have done if they had 30 minutes. Religious sentiments are totally different from the political ambitions. 'If you are religiously hurt, no might on this earth be able to prevent you to eliminate a person or organization that is involved in blasphemy of prophet Muhammad (PBUH). It clearly indicates that whatever MIM people have on their tongue, it is missing from their hearts as the proverb goes that barking dogs never bite. 'Now, according to Times of India and The Hindu, they are trying to add one more 'feather' to their cap by showing an intention to organize a campaign against Taslima to oust her from the country. 'When they could not utilize those thirty minutes to oust her from this world itself, what is the use to organize a campaign now? It is just like an embarrassed cat is scratching the pole. Religion is second to none to Mr. Asad.' To my knowledge, the *Munsif* does not have an English language edition. Its issue today, however, carries an editorial, which deserves some notice. Titled, 'The Accursed *Gustakh-e-Rasul* Taslima Nasrin,' it begins by raising a question: 'What would a true Muslim do if he came face to face with a *GR* woman and there is no "security" to protect her?' While it explicitly recommends 'beating with shoes' and 'blackening the face,' it also uses innuendo and 'historical' references to suggest more severe actions. For *Munsif,* any 'protest' must be 'punitive.' It further points out that if the protesters were hesitant to attack a woman, they could have brought some of their own women with them—the MIM has its own 'women force' and women 'corporators'—and the latter could have made Taslima a target of their wrath. *Munsif*, incidentally, is owned and edited by someone who long lived in Chicago, made his money here, and might still be an American citizen. That may explain why *Munsif* has no English website—it could get its owner in trouble with the American security hotheads. *Siasat*, on the other hand, seems to have some ambitions to reach out to both Urdu and non-Urdu readers on the web. As one reads the reports and editorials in the two newspapers one understands the true significance of the incident and its deep links to local political rivalries. One also sees how violently radical the so-called Muslim-Urdu opinion-makers have now become, and how blatantly they go about radicalizing the public discourse in the worst way. As Barkha Dutt, in a passionate and hard-hitting analysis in the *Hindustan Times* (August 10), points out, the incident at Hyderabad must be taken most seriously by every Indian. The MIM MLAs are indeed as reprehensible as any Pravin Togadia or Bal Thackeray. They should indeed be condemned equally forcefully and widely. In addition to public condemnations of the incident at Hyderabad and its perpetrators, it is most urgent for the state and press authorities themselves to examine the reports and editorials mentioned above and determine if any violation of India's secular laws has also occurred. Similarly, Urdu intellectuals in Hyderabad and elsewhere should undertake a more active role in exposing and challenging the violent and extremist views that are seemingly becoming more acceptable in Urdu journals and newspapers with every passing day. The first attack on Taslima Nasrin ended when the police arrived at the Press Club and rescued her, but the other attack continues and its target, howsoever unwittingly, is not her alone but the always fragile democracy in India. Any diminution of it will hurt India's minorities more than its majority community. From ysikand at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 10:25:53 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:25:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Firiz Bakht Ahmed on Attack on Taslima Nasreen Message-ID: <48097acc0708112155v17b87389n1663c3aa60ef74fa@mail.gmail.com> Shame on you hoodlums! Firoz Bakht Ahmed ------------------------------ ---------------------------------------- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to death, your right to say it — Voltaire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- August 10 happened to be the blackest day for Indian democracy as that lunatic fringe of cowardly, undemocratic and waspish legislatures of Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen made a travesty of law. While the country is on the verge of its 60th Independence Day achieved as a result of interfaith concord, the barbaric hoodlums have again proved what havoc organized religion can create. Owing to that, the image of India has been tarnished in the world. The attack by the lawmakers is a shame on the values of democracy. As elected MLAs, they are expected to respect and protect the freedom of expression as enshrined in the Constitution. These legislatures have brought shame to the nation. How do they justify the attack on a woman? What precedent are they setting for the Muslim youth? Their statement after the attack shows that they have no respect for the law let alone the women. The loony MIM activists and their ilk represent the intolerant sections that do not believe in values of amnesty and mutual co-existence. They are in a minority now but if they go unpunished, the malaise of violence against voices of dissent will spread like a weed very rapidly. Their leader Sultan Salahuddin Owaisi, went a step further patting on the back of the three vandalizing legislatures and threatening that if she would ever step in Hyderabad, she would be killed by them, a similar comment that was uttered by Alia Andarabi in her burqa-clad appearance on the CNN-IBN programme. Before the ghastly act of terror is faded out of public memory and anything else becomes the "breaking news", the MLAs must be tried under law. Another problem with the community and the media is that no platform is given to the voices of sanity in the community and only patented brands representing (who actually never represent) Muslims are encouraged in television debates. Targeting writers and artists by the fundamentalist fringe is not new but the horrendous attack on Taslima is a first on several counts. Till now, the orthodox clerics only had stopped short of violence against celebrities like Shabana Azmi, Sania Mirza etc and their ire was directed against the police, innocent civilians and public property, now the trend has become a really dangerous one after the entry of the educated ones like Glasgow famed doctor suicide bombers and now legislatures. Muslim community today has been like a rudderless ship. It is true that Taslima did write some derogatory remarks against the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but Muslims must realize that respect for him can never be reduced by people who do not realize that the freedom of expression and press is applied equally on both sides and with it also comes the responsibility of not hurting the religious sensibilities of others. For a law abiding Muslim like me, it was so embarrassing to see a lone woman in a foreign country being manhandled by the so called custodians of Law and Islam as well! I have felt let down these co-religionists of mine who turned into savages assaulting the author with files, bags, chairs, flowerpots or any anything that came lying handy and that too sarcastically at the Press Club of Hyderabad. Eminent Muslim lawyer M Atyab Siddiqui states that true, her lifestyle statements may not be in line with Islamic injunctions on women, but she is well within her rights to do so. Dr Aziz Burney, the learned Muslim scholar and editor Rashtriya Sahara Urdu daily opines that the best treatment to works like Lajja or Satanic denouncing religion is to ignore them and leave the matter between the writer and God rather than taking law in hands. Such protests actually render popularity to otherwise sub-standard literary work. He said that Prophet Mohammed actually invited dissent rather than punishing those who spoke against him or Islam. He believed in convincing. Muslims have been put to shame by this remark of Akbaruddin Owaisi, MIM, legilature when he said, "We are least concerned about our MLA, "We are Muslims first and it is our responsibility to punish all those in any manner who have said anything against Islam." Certainly such acts do not help Islam. What authority or which Hadith asks for the murder of dissenters, the Owaisis should explain as we all know that Islam was not spread by the likes of Owaisis but by the Sufi saints whose life was generous like a river. The honourable Owaisis overlooked the fact that ours is not a totalitarian but secular country. Truth is whether it is Gujarat, Hyderabad or Mumbai, legislatures of all parties, have been known for violent expressions regarding religious and ethnic loyalties and they know how to get out of it. Such people fail to understand that these blatantly violent and anti-democratic expressions are the worst possible publicity of their faith and owing to their zealous misdeed, a common Muslim who is in majority, has to pay dividends. As reaction to this, without ado, the media will brand the entire Muslim fraternity as a lot of extremists. The legislatures turned goons from the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM) defied not only all democratic norms but even the Islamic ones as the religion doesn't allow such cowardly attacks on women and other people. We may like or dislike what Taslima Nasreen writes but when on Indian soil — world's largest democracy — no one has the right to attack her. Such people neither read nor understand the humane attitude of the Prophet Muhammad, who did not attack those who insulted him, and there were many in Mecca at the time, who did. He returned the insults with visits to the sick with kind words. When he returned triumphant to Mecca, he did not punish any one who had not been guilty of cruel violence. I ask one question, Is it left to the MIM fiefdom of honourable Owaisi and sons to decide for us Indians as to who should be allowed a visa and who should not — depending on their understanding of blasphemy and heresy. The Owaisi family has been running the MIM as its private business which is deplorable. It recalls the ghetto mindset of the Gujarat BJP that banned Parzania from being filmed in the state or that of Yaqoob Qureshi, Mulayam's minister who announced Rs 51 crore prize for Danish cartoonist's head. It seems that the kind of attacks in one of which Taslima Nasrin had been subjected to in the Press Club of Hyderabad by the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimin legislators turned extremists, will never let Islam and Muslims have a peaceful existence. It is time that all right thinking Muslims condemn the attack on Taslima that actually is an attack on amnesty, humane attitude and the basic democratic and secular foundations of the Indian nation. Quite interestingly, the attack wasn't planned by the clerics but by the legislative members sworn to uphold the Indian constitution. The machinations behind the heinous act smack of attaining cheap political publicity at the cost of Islam and Muslims who both felt embarrassed by these annihilators of law and order. These zealots proved more dastardly that even the clergy of Lal Masjid in Islamabad. These legislators should thank their stars that India has no Musharrafs to crush such attackers. No doubt that people like Taslima Nasrin and Salman Rushdie with their third rate literary works have been hurting the sentiments of the Muslims all over the world yet in a democratic set up and an independent and secular society, it is of paramount importance that we accept freedom of expression and conscience. We all Indians, Hindus and Muslims and all the others know that our culture and ethos is based on the foundations of a unique secularism based on the concept of Sarva Dharma Samabhava, globally unique and locally practicable Well, the tragedy with Taslima is that she had been exploited by some people who were Muslims in name and resultantly she took up cudgels Islam. Her experiences in Bangladesh had been unpleasant and rather than following the right track since her Lajja in 1993, she has been found wayward. But the fact is that the best advocates of the religion are the acts by its followers. In case of Islam she had come into contact with drastically morally depraved Muslims. The solution is not in casting allegations against the Prpohet or being vitriolic regarding Islam but in interpreting the religion the Sufi way. True that these legislatures are no ones to do moral policing but Taslima herself is accused doing of what others are accusing the MLAs. The Muslim community best be advised to see through the manipulative designs and ignore such minor and insignificant issues. The only democratic and civilized way to deal with Taslima is to either ignore her or answer her with pen as violence at any cost is inhuman and Un-Islamic. The attackers have rather done a great favour to Taslima that she might have been noted for female Knighthood by Britain or may be another attack like this can help her being nominated for the Noble prize for literature! This is what some actors do by way of their kisses — perfect fundas to remain in limelight! Now she will have 'Z' category security at our coast! (The author is a commentator on social, religious and political matters) *** FIROZ BAKHT AHMED, A-202 Adeeba Market and Apartments, Near Rehmani Masjid, Main Road, Zakir Nagar, Oklhla, New Delhi 110 025. Ph.: 26984238, 26984517, 98109-33050 E-mail: firozbakht at rediffmail.com From kalakamra at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 12:12:47 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:12:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Our response to police action against Jashn-e - Azadi In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708110425r47de7598j94248d55ac3ba41a@mail.gmail.com> References: <46BBF89D.5070602@sarai.net> <642605.86536.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <33eee40c0708110425r47de7598j94248d55ac3ba41a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <33eee40c0708112342v3689b6bfg7744f9842a71b816@mail.gmail.com> dear yousuf, shuddha, fff in mumbai and elsewhere, (apologies for cross posting to sarai) yousuf wrote: the moment you formally invite people for a screening, it is taxable, even if one person turns up. (Even an email counts as an invitation). And this comes under the Entertainment and Betting Tax Act. So, we don't even know what all violations we have been doing in the past. Although we have been talking about it in the past, we probably should work towards preparing a comprehensive memorandum for the ministry/lawmakers to suggest that certain kinds of screenings should be exempt from censor certificate and entertainment tax etc. Meanwhile, we can continue to get amused with our little experiments of nitch viewing. I'm not sure that a comprehensive memorandum to the lawmakers - defining the 'certain' kinds of screenings which should be exempt from censor certs and entertainment tax is a rational option at all. how would we qualify jashn-e-azadi to be that certain film? i'm trying to imagine a text in this memorandum that would make this allowance-would it exempt films from certification for smaller screenings that 'might create a law and order problem' or films that contain inflammatory and provocative scenes on based on terrorism in kashmir', given that these are the purported reasons (and language) law enforcers throw at us. This film was never made to be cleared by the censor board, yet we all agree it was made to be shown, to be talked about... Knowing the law to be clearer about the violations we've been doing in the past is important, but we don't want to start our day with the premise that we're doing something illegal, screening something uncensored- this would either result in our own 'self-censorships' or add untoward romance to our 'struggle' As for amusement with experiments of 'nitch' viewing, heres one that worked. Jashn-e-azadi was screened a few days after the aborted screenings in mumbai for 25-30 people at Majlis--and yes, they were invited by email and sms. The audience was surprisingly diverse, apart from a couple of documentary filmmakers, some artists and journos, there were mainly young students, and non-film people who had been following the blog. The film ended at 9:30, after which we had a lengthy post-film discussion with sanjay kak--( having left bombay and now back in delhi... this was via video skype.--no high tech ostrich gear here- just a very normal speed internet connection) Whats important in all of this was the quality of conversation - members of the audience called sanjay over the phone and he responded on the screen for all to hear. There were the questions about not showing pakistans role, skirting the KP issue by just using statistics and a poem, but no images, -a discussion about the indian tourist in Kashmir, about august 15th and curfew. One filmmaker argued that while she was credulous of all the found footage, the struggle and protest, she was a little troubled by his portrayal of 'leadership'- geelani in particular. A wide debate, addressing a whole range of viewpoints. Sanjays engaging responses to these questions and the video of the conversation can be downloaded shortly. will post the link soon. I think what shuddha was trying to convey was that there are certainly other ways to do things.--and the internet is more public than we on this list think. Where do we find porn when we need it? How many are on facebook? How many students in your class pour their lives out on orkut? We can recall the yahoogroups list from manipur that was blocked years ago, resulting in all of yahoogroups being blocked. Or blogspot in recent times. This list, the sarai list and many others have been a crucial source of 'alternate' news and information for a lot of us. http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com is a telling example...its not only a forum about the film, but the related tags and depth of related material is providing the alternate media and discourse on kashmir so needed. Beyond this there are literally hundreds of file sharing and movie sharing archives, sites and repositories for political and radical films on the internet. Uploading your own film is a matter of your own proprietary zeal. I get the feeling a lot of filmmakers don't believe in making their films available online (or allow dvd's to be copied) If students could share the media, download this film- and many other documentaries- watch them alone, or with family or with friends or bring it to class for a screening---surely we must consider the possibilities...infact flip it around...imagine the internet as the mainstream, with the same access base and viewership of say mumbai mirror. To watch the film at home alone or with 10 friends, post comments on a blog or to attend a public/private screening are the choices, the many freedoms for access to this 'information' that we could have. To come back to this film and shuddha's idea of a jashn of sorts with simultaneously 'private' screenings on I-day...count us in. I would be happy to facilitate copies of the films for groups in bombay, (provided the audience is a minimum of 15!! and we try to share our feedback and responses) till then, happy downloading, happy writing, shaina On 8/11/07, shaina a wrote: > > dear yousuf, shuddha, fff in mumbai and elsewhere, > > yousuf wrote: > > the moment you formally invite people for a screening, it > is taxable, even if one person turns up. (Even an > email counts as an invitation). And this comes under > the Entertainment and Betting Tax Act. So, we don't > even know what all violations we have been doing in > the past. Although we have been talking about it in the past, we > probably should work towards preparing a comprehensive > memorandum for the ministry/lawmakers to suggest that > certain kinds of screenings should be exempt from > censor certificate and entertainment tax etc. > Meanwhile, we can continue to get amused with our > little experiments of nitch viewing. > > I'm not sure that a comprehensive memorandum to the lawmakers - defining > the 'certain' kinds of > screenings which should be exempt from censor certs and entertainment tax > is a rational option at all. > > how would we qualify jashn-e-azadi to be that certain film? i'm trying to > imagine a text in this memorandum that would make this allowance-would it > include films without certification that 'might create a law and order > problem' or include 'films that contain inflammatory and provocative scenes > on based on terrorism in kashmir', given that these are the purported reason > (and language) law enforcers throw at us. This film was never made to be > cleared by the censor board, yet we all agree it was made to be shown, to be > talked about... > > Knowing the law to be clearer about the violations we've been doing in the > past...is important, but we don't want to start our day with the premise > that we're doing something illegal, screening something uncensored- this > would either result in our own 'self-censorships' or add untoward romance to > our 'struggle'. > > as for amusement with experiments of 'nitch' viewing, heres one that > worked. Jashn-e-azadi was screened a few days after the aborted screenings > in mumbai for 25-30 people at Majlis. and yes, they were invited by email. > the audience was surprisingly diverse, apart from a couple of documentary > filmmakers and some journos, there were mainly young students, and non-film > people who had been following the blog. The film ended at 9:30, after which > we had a lengthy post-film discussion with sanjay kak--( having left bombay > and now back in delhi... this was via video skype.--no high tech ostrich > gear here- just a very normal speed internet connection) Whats important in > all of this was the quality of conversation - members of the audience called > sanjay over the phone and he responded on the screen for all to hear. There > were the questions about not showing pakistans role, skirting the KP issue > by just using statistics and a poem, but no images, -a discussion about the > indian tourist in kashmir about august 15th. One filmmaker argued that > while she was credulous of all the found footage and protest slogans, she > was a little troubled by his portrayal of 'leadership'- geelani in > particular. A wide debate, addressing a whole range of viewpoints. Sanjays > engaging responses to these questions and the video of the conversation can > be downloaded here: > > I think what shuddha was trying to convey was that there are certainly > other ways to do things.--and the internet is a free zone and more public > than we on this list think. where do we find porn when we need it? How many > are on facebook? How many students in your class pore their lives out on > orkut? > > But beyond that there are literally hundreds of file sharing and movie > sharing archives, sites and repositories for political and radical films on > the internet. Uploading your own film is a matter of your own proprietary > zeal. A filmmaker recently argued with me when i asked her if she would be > happy her if students copied the DVD of her film they so love and want to > see again...she said they should buy it from her and she would make it > available at a discount. If students could download this film- and many > other documentaries- watch them alone, or with family or with > friends---surely we must consider the possibilities...infact flip it > around...imagine the internet as the mainstream, with the same access base > and viewership of mumbai mirror...then lets imagine the possibilities... to > watch the film at home alone or with 10 friends, post comments on a blog or > to attend a public/private screening are the choices, the many freedoms for > this 'information' that we could have. > > Internet and its use has never elitist. we can recall the yahoogroups list > from manipur that was firewalled years ago, resulting in all of yahoogroups > being firewalled. Or blogspot in recent times. This list, the sarai list and > many others have been a crucial source of 'alternate' news and information > for a lot of us. http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com is a telling > example...its not only a forum about the film, but the related tags and > depth of related material is providing the alternate media and discourse on > kashmir so needed. > > To come back to this film and shuddha's idea of a jashn of sorts with > simultaneously 'private' screenings on I-day...count us in. I would be happy > to facilitate copies of the films for groups in bombay, (provided the > audience is a minimum of 15!!.) > > till then, happy downloading, happy writing... > > shaina > > > > > > On 8/10/07, Yousuf < ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Dear Shuddha > > Yes these are exciting possibilities of watching films > > or multimedia in several smaller groups, and we should > > try something like this in our midst. Although one > > would have to do something about the interference of > > so many different soundtracks playing at the same time > > in a space (unless you syncronise all of them). But I > > guess one would always tend to keep a big screen show > > (with everyone's attention together) as a reference > > point when weighing the pros and cons of such > > alternatives. > > > > I need to know what is the definition of a public > > screening in the books of censor/govt. Until few weeks > > ago some friends were trying to run a film club in the > > heart of Delhi. Suddently one day, one guy from the > > enterntainment tax department came and asked us to > > close the screenings since we had not paid the > > entertainment tax! According to him we ought to pay > > this tax whether we charge the audience or not. The > > moment you formally invite people for a screening, it > > is taxable, even if one person turns up. (Even an > > email counts as an invitation). And this comes under > > the Entertainment and Betting Tax Act. So, we don't > > even know what all violations we have been doing in > > the past. > > Although we have been talking about it in the past, we > > probably should work towards preparing a comprehensive > > memorandum for the ministry/lawmakers to suggest that > > certain kinds of screenings should be exempt from > > censor certificate and entertainment tax etc. > > Meanwhile, we can continue to get amused with our > > little experiments of nitch viewing. > > > > Yousuf > > > > __._,_.___ Messages in this topic > > ( > > 0) Reply (via web post) > > | Start > > a new topic > > > > Messages| > > Files| > > Photos| > > Links| > > Database| > > Polls| > > Calendar > > [image: Yahoo! Groups] > > Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) > > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch > > format to Traditional > > Visit Your Group > > | Yahoo! > > Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > > > Recent Activity > > > > - 1 > > New Members > > > > Visit Your Group > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > - Freedom of expression > > - Independent movie > > - Independent movie on dvd > > - Independent > > > > Yahoo! Movies > > > > Up for a movie? > > > > Check out showtimes > > > > and buy tickets > > Yahoo! TV > > > > "The 9" > > > > Daily count down > > > > of top Web finds. > > Endurance Zone > > > > on Yahoo! Groups > > > > Groups about > > > > better endurance. > > . > > > > __,_._,___ > > > > > > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From apnawritings at yahoo.co.in Sun Aug 12 15:41:14 2007 From: apnawritings at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:11:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <46BDEF0A.5030604@sarai.net> Message-ID: <341106.45985.qm@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddhabrata, I’m not ashamed to say that I am an avid reader of your- i.e., Shuddhabrata Sengupta’s writings as the works of Jeebesh Bagchi ( recently in the Journal of the Moving Image) or that of Lawrence Liang ( the little that I’ve read )and some works and words of Inder Salim and Vedabati Jogi simply fascinate me. And love at times compells to engage--more and more-- like this one. I have a public question for you--Shuddha. The remarkably clear instances of persecution or censorship no doubt merit discussion and an activist anthropology of sorts may be strongly required to comment on them but consider for instance the paradigm called ‘editing’ compulsory in newspaper circles and other institutionalised relatas. Besides correcting linguistic and open stylistic errors ( which perhaps everybody will accept) there is first the step of choosing articles and secondly if chosen –the editing of content. Both events make edifying and horrifying stories—but they are rarely available. Could you comment on this archival- lack ? And its logistics? Remember Taslima was twice awarded the Ananda puraskar; does it signify anything? People don’t discuss Malay Roy choudhury. And even Malay is a bad example; Allen Gisnberg at a function celebrating 25 years of Howl was asked his favourite author: he named a punk novelist and said, “ but he doesn’t get published.” I don’t want to elaborate on this here but cryptically summarise by asking that could editing be seen as also a technology of censorship and persecution passed under the table? Isn’t tabloid criticism based on the sacrifice of the best arguments? How could it be made accountable? Or take the ready example and answer why SARAI needs to be an open public forum rather than a closed one. Here is a hint: if others are closed ones, then what kind of freedom do they express? (Let the readers not mistake this fact and reiterate the catechism that it is technically not possible to accommodate all and everything etc.) --Because, then the agency where the ‘Freedom of expression’ is articulated, would itself be in doubt. That mediation itself is mediated is poisonous knowledge. Now this apparently is a simple, known statement, but –I’ll tell you after a while—how it is not. Simply put, I want Shuddha and all to comment, discuss and open the old force field of persecution and the art of writing again to debate it,- but with a difference: we move away from visible forms of coercion and explore apparently non-coercive, non-violent ( nearly necessary) forms of mediation and translation. (are they just impossible to handle?). A caution here: In this I don’t want to down play the Taslima event and Shuddha’s comments on it but I find myself attracted to Malay Roy Choudhury or Subimal Mishra rather than Taslima. The latter pass away as not being persecuted at all; why? how? This last example is a bit gross and bypasses the finer arguments I was hinting at but nevertheless it puts things in a straight light and offers a beginner’s example. But no cause for remorse : there are hundred narratives –some of them awesome—to be recounted here. But at first I expect Shuddha to clear the cloud here. Thanks Yrs in discourse and defeat arnab --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org > and the Sarai Reader > List) > > The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown > how fragile the > freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks > whenever a > sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments > challenged'. Are all > these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing > screenings and readings > suffering from some early childhood trauma that > makes it difficult for > them to countenance growing up and acquiring the > ability to listen to > contrary point of view? How long are we to be held > hostage to their > infantile suffering? > > What is worse is the fact that the people who > attacked her, and have > made public threats to kill her - activists and > elected representatives > belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated > Razakars, were > arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message > that the state sends > out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken > to a police station > to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be > splashed in the media, > go home and make some more threats" > > see - > http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > > In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express > today, it is Ms. > Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - > the same section of > the penal code that was earlier used to detain the > unfortunate art > student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and > Christian sentiments'. So > as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh > is concerned, person > who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a > prominent politician is > innocent, and the writer herself, who has never > threatened to kill > anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is > guilty of inciting > hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be > no greater travesty > of justice than this incident, and it once again > demonstrates how > willing state power in India is to dance in tandem > with bigots. It > happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress > ruled Andhra > Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled > West Bengal. > > Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and > cussedness is not the > monopoly of the self appointed representatives of > any one community or > political tendency. If the self appointed > representatives of the > Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour > venom on Sanjay Kak on > this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their > ardour by the > viciousness of those who have appointed themselves > the guardians of > Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and > Christian dignity in > Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short > memories) let us remember > that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and > hounded and her > publication banned in an Indian state, it just > happenned to be in West > Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and > this happenned because > the secular progressive left front regime, led by > the Contractors Party > of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the > sanitized cultural > landscape that they so vigorously uphold and > maintain in that state. > > The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found > it necessary to > publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its > issue dated November > 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for > this lengthy quotation) > > "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban > Bangladeshi author > Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita > (‘Split in Two’) because it > was feared that the book would incite communal > violence. At no point of > time has the book been proscribed on political or > literary grounds. > > In a government notification issued on November 28, > the state LF > government has formally invoked the ban under > section 95 of the code of > Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian > Penal Code (where it > is considered a criminal and punishable act to > create enmity, rivalry, > and hatred amongst religious communities. > > State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said > that there was > apprehension expressed widely that the book would > spark off communal > tension, and that very many experts in the field > supported this view. > The LF government has banned the book for the sake > of the upkeep of > democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have > expressed similar > feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time > the Left Front has been > office in Bengal not a single book or publication > has been proscribed on > political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a > different matter > altogether if a publication or a book incited > terrorism and communalism. > > Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee > whose department > issued the notification banning the book, said that > he had himself read > the book “several times over.” that he has > “persuaded at least 25 noted > specialists to go through the book critically” and > that they have > recommended the book to be not fit for circulation > among the reading > public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book > contain very > derogatory and provocative references that go > against the grain of the > tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. > > Several noted authors including the poet Sunil > Gangopadhyay, the > novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and > Syed Mustafa Siraj, the > Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman > Chatterjee, as well > as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, > Subrata Mukherjee, > among others, have come openly out against the book > and have supported > the decision by the state LF government to get the > book banned. > > Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called > Taslima Nasreen a > blot on the world of women, has described the book > as having no > difference with a piece of pornography and has said > that nobody ought to > assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious > community. > > The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s > multi-volume autobiography has > been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and > Bengal with obscenity > and has come under fire for its maligning and > falsified personal > references to the lives of several noted scholars of > Bengal and > Bangladesh as well. > > However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while > speaking to the media > in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact > that portions of the > book would cause religious disharmony to break out, > with the religious > fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame > of communal fire. > > True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has > supported Taslima > Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has > opposed the > proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has > chosen to hold her > silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many > other matters as well." > > It appears that if there is one thing that religious > fundamentalists, > communal, nationalist, secular and leftist > politicians agree on is the > necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. > > There is only one possible ethical response to this > pathetic display of > arrogance by the self appointed representatives of > Hindu, Muslim, > Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to > ensure the widest > possible circulation of these materials in the > public domain. It is to > organize as many screenings as possible of a film > like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > (or any other film that is attacked in a similar > fashion) and to hold > public readings and distributions of the books of > someone like Taslima > Nasreen. > > In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay > by Taslima Nasreen > that had been first published in English in Sarai > Reader 04: Turbuluence > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > She wrote - > > "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been > banned earlier in > Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. > The communal > tension raging through South Asia is not caused by > my books but by other > reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, > the killing of Muslims > in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the > attacks against > Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan > have all occurred > without any contribution from me. Even if I am an > insignificant writer, > I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that > every human being > is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the > basis of gender, > colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. > Riots don’t break > out because of what I write. But I am the one who is > punished for what I > write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has > to suffer exile. I am > the one who is homeless everywhere." > > > If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and > artists are not > 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that > they receive the > hospitality that enables the conditions that allow > their work, thought > and expression to continue to have a public life. > This means making sure > that their work lives and continues to breathe in > society, by any means > necessary. > > For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, > some of Taslima > Nasrin's work is available in the form of > downloadable pdfs from > www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev > Bhattacharya decided, > after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals > to ban her book, I > decided to download the said book, make twenty six > photocopies of the > entire book bind them and distribute them free. > > That is one method to deal with censorship (formal > or informal) I am > sure that there are other, more creative methods out > there as well. I > would welcome practical suggestions from those in > the community of the > people who are reading this post > about how these attacks on the freedom of expression > may be confronted > and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time > for peaceful film > watching and reading. > > best > > Shuddha > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 12 18:28:12 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 05:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <46BDEF0A.5030604@sarai.net> Message-ID: <921525.37917.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Shuddha A. You wrote: "It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda." How do you categorise yourself Shuddha? Which grouping do you belong to? Your answer would be very interesting. What you might want to consider is that there is no such animal as "unbridled freedom". The foundations of "free" organised societies are "regulated freedoms". Freedom without any curbs on expression or action are "animalistic". I should correct myself; even in the non-human domains whether by genetic imprinting or instinct or some primordial intelligence, creatures at most time define the limits of "freedom" they allow each other within the species they belong to. Even the inter-species cosmos exists with it's own checks and balances. The subject to dwell upon would be whether the "freedoms" are allowed with a bias favouring some and prejudicial to others. That is not being discussed here. Shuddha, if instead of an Indian citizen you see yourself as a Netizen please be aware that in the cyber space domain also you have only as much freedom as will be "allowed" to you whether by those who run the "servers" or those who arrange the Bits and Bytes. B. You also wrote: "If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and elsewhere....." Who does your voice represent Shuddha? Are you the "self appointed" voice of reason while others are "venom" pourers? I see a lot of "venom" in your own words. Equating Kashmiri Pandits speaking (speech) against Sanjay Kak's docu with the assault (action) by MIM activists does not make a good comparative analogy. If you think otherwise then why should you exclude acceptance that the writings of Taslima Nasreen (speech) are equated with assault (action) by some. It might help you understand things better Shuddha if you discussed with the Kashmiri Pandit "voices" what exactly is their beef about Sanjay Kak's docu, instead of just dismissing them as part of "bigotry and cussedness" Kshmendra Kaul Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org and the Sarai Reader List) The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown how fragile the freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks whenever a sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments challenged'. Are all these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing screenings and readings suffering from some early childhood trauma that makes it difficult for them to countenance growing up and acquiring the ability to listen to contrary point of view? How long are we to be held hostage to their infantile suffering? What is worse is the fact that the people who attacked her, and have made public threats to kill her - activists and elected representatives belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated Razakars, were arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message that the state sends out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken to a police station to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be splashed in the media, go home and make some more threats" see - http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express today, it is Ms. Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - the same section of the penal code that was earlier used to detain the unfortunate art student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and Christian sentiments'. So as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh is concerned, person who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a prominent politician is innocent, and the writer herself, who has never threatened to kill anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is guilty of inciting hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be no greater travesty of justice than this incident, and it once again demonstrates how willing state power in India is to dance in tandem with bigots. It happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress ruled Andhra Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled West Bengal. Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and cussedness is not the monopoly of the self appointed representatives of any one community or political tendency. If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their ardour by the viciousness of those who have appointed themselves the guardians of Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and Christian dignity in Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short memories) let us remember that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and hounded and her publication banned in an Indian state, it just happenned to be in West Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and this happenned because the secular progressive left front regime, led by the Contractors Party of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the sanitized cultural landscape that they so vigorously uphold and maintain in that state. The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found it necessary to publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its issue dated November 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for this lengthy quotation) "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita (‘Split in Two’) because it was feared that the book would incite communal violence. At no point of time has the book been proscribed on political or literary grounds. In a government notification issued on November 28, the state LF government has formally invoked the ban under section 95 of the code of Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian Penal Code (where it is considered a criminal and punishable act to create enmity, rivalry, and hatred amongst religious communities. State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said that there was apprehension expressed widely that the book would spark off communal tension, and that very many experts in the field supported this view. The LF government has banned the book for the sake of the upkeep of democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have expressed similar feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time the Left Front has been office in Bengal not a single book or publication has been proscribed on political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a different matter altogether if a publication or a book incited terrorism and communalism. Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee whose department issued the notification banning the book, said that he had himself read the book “several times over.” that he has “persuaded at least 25 noted specialists to go through the book critically” and that they have recommended the book to be not fit for circulation among the reading public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book contain very derogatory and provocative references that go against the grain of the tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. Several noted authors including the poet Sunil Gangopadhyay, the novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and Syed Mustafa Siraj, the Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman Chatterjee, as well as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, Subrata Mukherjee, among others, have come openly out against the book and have supported the decision by the state LF government to get the book banned. Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called Taslima Nasreen a blot on the world of women, has described the book as having no difference with a piece of pornography and has said that nobody ought to assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious community. The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s multi-volume autobiography has been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and Bengal with obscenity and has come under fire for its maligning and falsified personal references to the lives of several noted scholars of Bengal and Bangladesh as well. However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while speaking to the media in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact that portions of the book would cause religious disharmony to break out, with the religious fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame of communal fire. True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has supported Taslima Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has opposed the proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has chosen to hold her silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many other matters as well." It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. There is only one possible ethical response to this pathetic display of arrogance by the self appointed representatives of Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to ensure the widest possible circulation of these materials in the public domain. It is to organize as many screenings as possible of a film like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' (or any other film that is attacked in a similar fashion) and to hold public readings and distributions of the books of someone like Taslima Nasreen. In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay by Taslima Nasreen that had been first published in English in Sarai Reader 04: Turbuluence http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media She wrote - "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been banned earlier in Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. The communal tension raging through South Asia is not caused by my books but by other reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, the killing of Muslims in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the attacks against Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan have all occurred without any contribution from me. Even if I am an insignificant writer, I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that every human being is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the basis of gender, colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. Riots don’t break out because of what I write. But I am the one who is punished for what I write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has to suffer exile. I am the one who is homeless everywhere." If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and artists are not 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that they receive the hospitality that enables the conditions that allow their work, thought and expression to continue to have a public life. This means making sure that their work lives and continues to breathe in society, by any means necessary. For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, some of Taslima Nasrin's work is available in the form of downloadable pdfs from www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev Bhattacharya decided, after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals to ban her book, I decided to download the said book, make twenty six photocopies of the entire book bind them and distribute them free. That is one method to deal with censorship (formal or informal) I am sure that there are other, more creative methods out there as well. I would welcome practical suggestions from those in the community of the people who are reading this post about how these attacks on the freedom of expression may be confronted and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time for peaceful film watching and reading. best Shuddha _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 12 22:37:43 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:07:43 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <921525.37917.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <921525.37917.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46BF3E5F.30902@blueyonder.co.uk> Worse - I really do believe that it is a rhetoric designed to appeal to a certain Western art world/ new media mileu that enjoy hearing the take of self defined translatable experts representative of South Asia - who always quite tediously use a libertarian discourse that presents India as a space that is coherently monitored by the 'police' - wow ...the thought police !!! . This tactic presents India as a place in need of liberating, in need of emancipation. But by whom pray is this to be done ... and to what ends, and whom does all this liberating benefit? It always benefits someone right - be it the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo or the weapons dealer. I agree with the writer of the text below but I would add that I feel u r locating in your critque - a disembodied representation of issues and events..... I believe u r demnding that one should be honest about where one is from and ones privaledges, otherwise how are we to comprehend these so called political positions by the self defined so called experts.. In Haste Anjali Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Shuddha > > A. > > You wrote: > "It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda." > How do you categorise yourself Shuddha? Which grouping do you belong to? Your answer would be very interesting. > > What you might want to consider is that there is no such animal as "unbridled freedom". The foundations of "free" organised societies are "regulated freedoms". Freedom without any curbs on expression or action are "animalistic". > > I should correct myself; even in the non-human domains whether by genetic imprinting or instinct or some primordial intelligence, creatures at most time define the limits of "freedom" they allow each other within the species they belong to. Even the inter-species cosmos exists with it's own checks and balances. > > The subject to dwell upon would be whether the "freedoms" are allowed with a bias favouring some and prejudicial to others. That is not being discussed here. > > Shuddha, if instead of an Indian citizen you see yourself as a Netizen please be aware that in the cyber space domain also you have only as much freedom as will be "allowed" to you whether by those who run the "servers" or those who arrange the Bits and Bytes. > > B. > > You also wrote: > "If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and elsewhere....." > Who does your voice represent Shuddha? Are you the "self appointed" voice of reason while others are "venom" pourers? I see a lot of "venom" in your own words. > > Equating Kashmiri Pandits speaking (speech) against Sanjay Kak's docu with the assault (action) by MIM activists does not make a good comparative analogy. If you think otherwise then why should you exclude acceptance that the writings of Taslima Nasreen (speech) are equated with assault (action) by some. > > It might help you understand things better Shuddha if you discussed with the Kashmiri Pandit "voices" what exactly is their beef about Sanjay Kak's docu, instead of just dismissing them as part of "bigotry and cussedness" > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org and the Sarai Reader > List) > > The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown how fragile the > freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks whenever a > sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments challenged'. Are all > these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing screenings and readings > suffering from some early childhood trauma that makes it difficult for > them to countenance growing up and acquiring the ability to listen to > contrary point of view? How long are we to be held hostage to their > infantile suffering? > > What is worse is the fact that the people who attacked her, and have > made public threats to kill her - activists and elected representatives > belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated Razakars, were > arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message that the state sends > out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken to a police station > to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be splashed in the media, > go home and make some more threats" > > see - http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > > In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express today, it is Ms. > Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - the same section of > the penal code that was earlier used to detain the unfortunate art > student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and Christian sentiments'. So > as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh is concerned, person > who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a prominent politician is > innocent, and the writer herself, who has never threatened to kill > anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is guilty of inciting > hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be no greater travesty > of justice than this incident, and it once again demonstrates how > willing state power in India is to dance in tandem with bigots. It > happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress ruled Andhra > Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled West Bengal. > > Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and cussedness is not the > monopoly of the self appointed representatives of any one community or > political tendency. If the self appointed representatives of the > Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on > this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their ardour by the > viciousness of those who have appointed themselves the guardians of > Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and Christian dignity in > Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short memories) let us remember > that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and hounded and her > publication banned in an Indian state, it just happenned to be in West > Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and this happenned because > the secular progressive left front regime, led by the Contractors Party > of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the sanitized cultural > landscape that they so vigorously uphold and maintain in that state. > > The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found it necessary to > publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its issuedated November > 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for this lengthy quotation) > > "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban Bangladeshi author > Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita (‘Split in Two’) because it > was feared that the book would incite communal violence. At no point of > time has the book been proscribed on political or literary grounds. > > In a government notification issued on November 28, the state LF > government has formally invoked the ban under section 95 of the code of > Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian Penal Code (where it > is considered a criminal and punishable act to create enmity, rivalry, > and hatred amongst religious communities. > > State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said that there was > apprehension expressed widely that the book would spark off communal > tension, and that very many experts in the field supported this view. > The LF government has banned the book for the sake of the upkeep of > democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have expressed similar > feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time the Left Front has been > office in Bengal not a single book or publication has been proscribed on > political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a different matter > altogether if a publication or a book incited terrorism and communalism. > > Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee whose department > issued the notification banning the book, said that he had himself read > the book “several times over.” that he has “persuaded at least 25 noted > specialists to go through the book critically” and that they have > recommended the book to be not fit for circulation among the reading > public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book contain very > derogatory and provocative references that go against the grain of the > tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. > > Several noted authors including the poet Sunil Gangopadhyay, the > novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and Syed Mustafa Siraj, the > Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman Chatterjee, as well > as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, Subrata Mukherjee, > among others, have come openly out against the book and have supported > the decision by the state LF government to get the book banned. > > Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called Taslima Nasreen a > blot on the world of women, has described the book as having no > difference with a piece of pornography and has said that nobody ought to > assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious community. > > The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s multi-volume autobiography has > been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and Bengal with obscenity > and has come under fire for its maligning and falsified personal > references to the lives of several noted scholars of Bengal and > Bangladesh as well. > > However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while speaking to the media > in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact that portions of the > book would cause religious disharmony to break out, with the religious > fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame of communal fire. > > True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has supported Taslima > Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has opposed the > proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has chosen to hold her > silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many other matters as well." > > It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, > communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the > necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. > > There is only one possible ethical response to this pathetic display of > arrogance by the self appointed representatives of Hindu, Muslim, > Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to ensure the widest > possible circulation of these materials in the public domain. It is to > organize as many screenings as possible of a film like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > (or any other film that is attacked in a similar fashion) and to hold > public readings and distributions of the books of someone like Taslima > Nasreen. > > In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay by Taslima Nasreen > that had been first published in English in Sarai Reader 04: Turbuluence > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > She wrote - > > "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been banned earlier in > Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. The communal > tension raging through South Asia is not caused by my books but by other > reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, the killing of Muslims > in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the attacks against > Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan have all occurred > without any contribution from me. Even if I am an insignificant writer, > I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that every human being > is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the basis of gender, > colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. Riots don’t break > out because of what I write. But I am the one who is punished for what I > write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has to suffer exile. I am > the one who is homeless everywhere." > > > If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and artists are not > 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that they receive the > hospitality that enables the conditions that allow their work, thought > and expression to continue to have a public life. This means making sure > that their work lives and continues to breathe in society, by any means > necessary. > > For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, some of Taslima > Nasrin's work is available in the form of downloadable pdfs from > www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev Bhattacharya decided, > after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals to ban her book, I > decided to download the said book, make twenty six photocopies of the > entire book bind them and distribute them free. > > That is one method to deal with censorship (formal or informal) I am > sure that there are other, more creative methods out there as well. I > would welcome practical suggestions from those in the community of the > people who are reading this post > about how these attacks on the freedom of expression may be confronted > and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time for peaceful film > watching and reading. > > best > > Shuddha > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 12 22:40:40 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:10:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <921525.37917.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <921525.37917.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46BF3F10.8000005@blueyonder.co.uk> Worse - I really do believe that it is a rhetoric designed to appeal to a certain Western art world/ new media milieu that enjoy hearing the take of self defined translatable experts representative of South Asia - who always quite tediously use a libertarian discourse that presents India as a space that is coherently monitored by the 'police' - wow ...the thought police !!! . This tactic presents India as a place in need of liberating, in need of emancipation. But by whom pray is this to be done ... and to what ends, and whom does all this liberating benefit? It always benefits someone right - be it the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo or the weapons dealer. I agree with the writer of the text below but I would add that I feel u r locating in your critique - a disembodied representation of issues and events..... I believe u r demanding that one should be honest about where one is from and ones privileges, otherwise how are we to comprehend these so called political positions by the self defined so called experts.. In Haste Anjali Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Shuddha > > A. > > You wrote: > "It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda." > How do you categorise yourself Shuddha? Which grouping do you belong to? Your answer would be very interesting. > > What you might want to consider is that there is no such animal as "unbridled freedom". The foundations of "free" organised societies are "regulated freedoms". Freedom without any curbs on expression or action are "animalistic". > > I should correct myself; even in the non-human domains whether by genetic imprinting or instinct or some primordial intelligence, creatures atmost time define the limits of "freedom" they allow each other within the species they belong to. Even the inter-species cosmos exists with it's own checks and balances. > > The subject to dwell upon would be whether the "freedoms" are allowedwith a bias favouring some and prejudicial to others. That is not being discussed here. > > Shuddha, if instead of an Indian citizen you see yourself as a Netizen please be aware that in the cyber space domain also you have only as much freedom as will be "allowed" to you whether by those who run the "servers" or those who arrange the Bits and Bytes. > > B. > > You also wrote: > "If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and elsewhere....." > Who does your voice represent Shuddha? Are you the "self appointed" voice of reason while others are "venom" pourers? I see a lot of "venom" in your own words. > > Equating Kashmiri Pandits speaking (speech) against Sanjay Kak's docuwith the assault (action) by MIM activists does not make a good comparative analogy. If you think otherwise then why should you exclude acceptance that the writings of Taslima Nasreen (speech) are equated with assault (action) by some. > > It might help you understand things better Shuddha if you discussed with the Kashmiri Pandit "voices" what exactly is their beef about Sanjay Kak's docu, instead of just dismissing them as part of "bigotry and cussedness" > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org and the Sarai Reader > List) > > The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown how fragile the > freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks whenever a > sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments challenged'. Are all > these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing screenings and readings > suffering from some early childhood trauma that makes it difficult for > them to countenance growing up and acquiring the ability to listen to > contrary point of view? How long are we to be held hostage to their > infantile suffering? > > What is worse is the fact that the people who attacked her, and have > made public threats to kill her - activists and elected representatives > belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated Razakars, were > arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message that the state sends > out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken to a police station > to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be splashed in the media, > go home and make some more threats" > > see - http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > > In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express today, it is Ms. > Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - the same section of > the penal code that was earlier used to detain the unfortunate art > student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and Christian sentiments'. So > as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh is concerned, person > who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a prominent politician is > innocent, and the writer herself, who has never threatened to kill > anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is guilty of inciting > hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be no greater travesty > of justice than this incident, and it once again demonstrates how > willing state power in India is to dance in tandem with bigots. It > happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress ruled Andhra > Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled West Bengal. > > Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and cussedness is not the > monopoly of the self appointed representatives of any one community or > political tendency. If the self appointed representatives of the > Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on > this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their ardour by the > viciousness of those who have appointed themselves the guardians of > Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and Christian dignity in > Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short memories) let us remember > that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and hounded and her > publication banned in an Indian state, it just happenned to be in West > Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and this happenned because > the secular progressive left front regime, led by the Contractors Party > of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the sanitized cultural > landscape that they so vigorously uphold and maintain in that state. > > The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found it necessary to > publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its issue dated November > 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for this lengthy quotation) > > "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban Bangladeshi author > Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita (‘Split in Two’) because it > was feared that the book would incite communal violence. At no point of > time has the book been proscribed on political or literary grounds. > > In a government notification issued on November 28, the state LF > government has formally invoked the ban under section 95 of the code of > Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian Penal Code (where it > is considered a criminal and punishable act to create enmity, rivalry, > and hatred amongst religious communities. > > State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said that there was > apprehension expressed widely that the book would spark off communal > tension, and that very many experts in the field supported this view. > The LF government has banned the book for the sake of the upkeep of > democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have expressed similar > feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time the Left Front has been > office in Bengal not a single book or publication has been proscribed on > political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a different matter > altogether if a publication or a book incited terrorism and communalism. > > Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee whose department > issued the notification banning the book, said that he had himself read > the book “several times over.” that he has “persuaded at least 25 noted > specialists to go through the book critically” and that they have > recommended the book to be not fit for circulation among the reading > public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book contain very > derogatory and provocative references that go against the grain of the > tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. > > Several noted authors including the poet Sunil Gangopadhyay, the > novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and Syed Mustafa Siraj, the > Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman Chatterjee, as well > as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, Subrata Mukherjee, > among others, have come openly out against the book and have supported > the decision by the state LF government to get the book banned. > > Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called Taslima Nasreen a > blot on the world of women, has described the book as having no > difference with a piece of pornography and has said that nobody ought to > assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious community. > > The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s multi-volume autobiography has > been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and Bengal with obscenity > and has come under fire for its maligning and falsified personal > references to the lives of several noted scholars of Bengal and > Bangladesh as well. > > However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while speaking to the media > in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact that portions of the > book would cause religious disharmony to break out, with the religious > fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame of communal fire. > > True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has supported Taslima > Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has opposed the > proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has chosen to hold her > silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many other matters as well." > > It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, > communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the > necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. > > There is only one possible ethical response to this pathetic display of > arrogance by the self appointed representatives of Hindu, Muslim, > Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to ensure the widest > possible circulation of these materials in the public domain. It is to > organize as many screenings as possible of a film like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > (or any other film that is attacked in a similar fashion) and to hold > public readings and distributions of the books of someone like Taslima > Nasreen. > > In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay by Taslima Nasreen > that had been first published in English in Sarai Reader 04: Turbuluence > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > She wrote - > > "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been banned earlier in > Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. The communal > tension raging through South Asia is not caused by my books but by other > reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, the killing of Muslims > in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the attacks against > Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan have all occurred > without any contribution from me. Even if I am an insignificant writer, > I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that every human being > is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the basis of gender, > colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. Riots don’t break > out because of what I write. But I am the one who is punished for what I > write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has to suffer exile. I am > the one who is homeless everywhere." > > > If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and artists are not > 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that they receive the > hospitality that enables the conditions that allow their work, thought > and expression to continue to have a public life. This means making sure > that their work lives and continues to breathe in society, by any means > necessary. > > For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, some of Taslima > Nasrin's work is available in the form of downloadable pdfs from > www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev Bhattacharya decided, > after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals to ban her book, I > decided to download the said book, make twenty six photocopies of the > entire book bind them and distribute them free. > > That is one method to deal with censorship (formal or informal) I am > sure that there are other, more creative methods out there as well. I > would welcome practical suggestions from those in the community of the > people who are reading this post > about how these attacks on the freedom of expression may be confronted > and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time for peaceful film > watching and reading. > > best > > Shuddha > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From image.science at donau-uni.ac.at Sun Aug 12 23:22:26 2007 From: image.science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:52:26 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] ANN re:place 2007 conference, Berlin, 15-18 November 2007 Message-ID: <46BF64FA0200007D00003BE8@gwgwia.donau-uni.ac.at> re:place 2007 The Second International Conference on the Histories of Media, Art, Science and Technology Location: Haus der Kulturen der Welt, Berlin Date: 15-18 November 2007 Information: http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace An interdisciplinary forum of over 70 researchers and artists from all over the world, re:place 2007 presents multiple historical relations between art, science and technology. The title 're:place' refers to the sites and the migration of artistic and knowledge production. This theme is highlighted during the panel discussions and poster sessions, particularly in the 'Place Studies' stream which looks at specific historical instances and settings. Special attention will be given to alternatives to the 'Western' historical paradigms through presentations about art-science relations in the former Soviet Union, Africa, and Latin America. The conference includes general forum discussions on interdisciplinary research strategies, as well as keynote lectures by Lorraine Daston and Siegfried Zielinski. replace 2007 is a project of Kulturprojekte Berlin GmbH in cooperation with Haus der Kulturen der Welt, Berlin. Funded by Hauptstadtkulturfonds, Berlin. Conference partners include Leonardo, Database of Virtual Art at Danube University Krems' Center for Image Science, Ludwig Boltzmann Institute Media.Art.Research, Helmholtz-Zentrum für Kulturtechnik at Humboldt Universität Berlin, Institut für Auslandsbeziehungen, and others. Supported by Tschechisches Zentrum Berlin - CzechPoint and Schwedische Botschaft Berlin. Conference chairs: Andreas Broeckmann (D), Gunalan Nadarajan (SG/USA) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Conference ticket (3 days): EUR 50 (full) / EUR 20 (concessions) Day ticket: EUR 25 (full) / EUR 10 (concessions) Contact and information: replace at mikro.in-berlin.de, http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PRAGUE / art - science - media - theory / BERLIN 8-18 NOVEMBER 2007 Three major conference events on art, science and media theory will take place in Prague and Berlin this November. Visit the MutaMorphosis conference (8-11 Nov.) and bring yourself up to date with contemporary art in extreme envirnments at the border between art and science. Take part in a Prague symposium about the exceptional media theorist, Vilem Flusser (12-13 Nov.). And then make the short journey to Berlin, where the re:place 2007 conference (15-18 Nov.) will feature outstanding interdisciplinary research and debates about the histories of media, art, science, and technology. http://mutamorphosis.org / http://www.goethe.de/prag / http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace Flyer download (1.9 MB) for this series at: http://mutamorphosis.org/upload/files/2007/07/18/PRAGUEBERLINNOVEMBER2007.pdf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Programme re:place 2007 check http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace for updates *** 13 / 14 / 15 November, pre-conference workshops and events (to be announced) ****** Thursday 15 November ********************************** *** Opening Session 15 November, Thursday, 14.00-15.00, Auditorium Welcome by Andreas Broeckmann (DE), Gunalan Nadarajan (SG/US), Bernd Scherer/HKW (DE) Introductory talk by Oliver Grau (DE/AT): MediaArtHistory - Image Science - Digital Humanities *** Panel 1: Place Studies: Art/Science/Engineering 15 November, Thursday, 15.00-17.30, Auditorium Michael Century (CA/US), Encoding motion in the early computer: knowledge transfers between studio and laboratory Stephen Jones (AU): The Confluence of Computing and Fine Arts at the University of Sydney, 1968-1975 Eva Moraga (ES): The Computation Center at Madrid University, 1966-1973: An example of true interaction between art, science and technology Robin Oppenheimer (US/CA): Network Forums and Trading Zones: How Two Experimental, Collaborative Art and Engineering Subcultures Spawned the "9 Evenings: Theatre and Engineering" and E.A.T. *** Panel 2: Intersections of Media and Biology 15 November, Thursday, 15.00-17.30, Theatersaal Assimina Kaniari (GR/UK), Morphogenesis in Action: D'Arcy Thompson and the experimental in Leonardo from LL Whyte to now Jussi Parikka (FI): Insect Media of the Nineteenth Century Michele Barker (AU): From Life to Cognition: investigating the role of biology and neurology in new media arts practice Boo Chapple (AU): Sound, Matter, Flesh: A history of crosstalk from medicine to contemporary art and biology *** Keynote 1/Helmholtz Lecture (speaker t.b.c.) 15 November, Thursday, 18.30 at Helmholtz-Zentrum, Humboldt University *** Special Lecture Presentation Timothy Druckrey (US): Cinemedia - Visions of Computation in Cinema 15 November, Thursday, 21.00 at TESLA Media>Art Based in New Delhi, 82-year old Maulana Wahiduddin Khan is one of India's most prolific Islamic scholars. In this interview with Yoginder Sikand he talks about the much-discussed issue of madrasas. Q: You are a prolific writer and have written extensively on a vast number of issues related to Islam. How is it, then, that you have written very little on the issue of madrasas? A: I did write a couple of articles on madrasas in my earlier days when I worked for the Jamiat ul-Ulema's Urdu paper al-Jamiat, which I edited for around eight years. However, after I established the Islamic Centre in New Delhi in 1970 I decided to focus only on producing dawah-oriented literature, trying to present Islam in terms intelligible to the modern mind and aimed at both Muslims as well as others. Much has been written on the madrasas, including by the ulema of the madrasas themselves, but there is very little dawah-oriented literature available, so that is why I decided to devote my time to this. Q: What exactly do you mean by 'dawah-oriented' literature? A: Telling others about Islam is dawah, and literature written with this purpose in mind is dawah-oriented literature. Dawah is the greatest responsibility of Muslims. The Quran and numerous Hadith reports mention that it is the duty of Muslims to convey the message of Islam to all of humankind. In our country, many Muslim organizations are working for the Muslim community and some of them claim that this is dawah work, but this is not the case. Unfortunately, very few Muslims are today engaged in any organized dawah work. Q: How is dawah different from proselytisation? A: The two are very different. Proselytisation aims at changing a person from one religion to another, for which all sorts of methods are used. But the Quran says that it is only God who can change people's hearts. So, in contrast to proselytisation, dawah aims at sharing one's faith with others. It is a knowledge-sharing experience and process in which one teaches and learns at the same time. And in the process of doing so, one gets to realize and understand good points in other religions as well. Q: Since you have written very little on the madrasas, does it mean that you do not see eye-to-eye with many ulema of the madrasas? A: Some people are critical of my approach, but I must also say that my books are read by many ulema and several madrasa educated people are with me in the dawah work that I am engaged in. The ulema are doing good work by running madrasas. You can call it a sort of division of labour. Madrasas are needed and so, too, is dawah work, and there is no contradiction between the two. Q: How do you look at the madrasa system? There is much talk about the need for reforms in the system? A: Unlike some others, I am not critical of or opposed to the madrasas as such. Muslims need both types of education—religious as well as secular. Muslim children should have knowledge of both their religion as well as secular subjects. There is, of course, no need for all Muslim children to go to full-time madrasas to train to become ulema. However, there must be some children who do so that the tradition of religious learning can be carried on. We need madrasa-trained ulema who have knowledge of the Quran, Hadith, Islamic jurisprudence and Arabic. As far as the question of madrasa 'reforms' is concerned, I really don't believe in this talk of 'modernisation'. You certainly cannot 'modernise' the Quran and the Hadith. So, I think the word 'modernisation' in this context is uncalled for. While on this subject of 'reforms', I must say that the 'modern' schools and universities are also in urgent need of reform, a point often neglected by vociferous advocates of madrasa 'reform'. In the Psychology departments of many Indian universities they continue to teach the outdated Conditioning Theory and the Illusion Theory. What I mean to say is that no syllabus can be perfect. What's more important than the formal syllabus are good teachers, because it is teachers who teach, not books. Some people argue that madrasas teach some outdated centuries-old texts on Greek philosophy and logic. But we must also that departments of English in universities also teach English classics, written centuries ago, which have no value in the outside world. For me these texts are a minor issue. The basic issue is the need for good, committed teachers. Q: So, are you arguing that madrasa students must not be made familiar with basic 'modern' subjects? A: No, not at all. What I suggest is that separate institutions can be established where some madrasa students, after they graduate, can enroll to learn 'modern' subjects, particularly different languages such as English. I myself received a traditional madrasa education and learnt English and 'modern' subjects on my own after I graduated. I feel that if students are forced to study 'modern' subjects while in the madrasas in addition to the subjects in the existing madrasa curriculum it would be too much of a load for them to bear. It might destroy the fabric of the madrasas. Q: In recent years a small number of these specialized institutions for madrasa graduates that you refer to have been established in India. How do you look at this phenomenon? A: I think this is a very welcome development. However, it needs to be done in a more organized way. What many of these institutions lack is good teachers motivated by a missionary zeal. It won't do to have just professional tutors. I strongly feel that more important than the curriculum are the teachers. In my days in the Madrasat ul-Islah in Azamgarh, we had teachers who worked with missionary passion. They instilled in us the spirit of enquiry, which is the mother of all knowledge and without which one cannot progress. This tradition must be revived. Presently, we have no institutes for training madrasa teachers. They need to be trained in pedagogical techniques, child development and so on. I think this is one issue that Muslim organizations must focus on. Q: How do you think the rigid dualism between the madrasa-trained ulema and the 'secular' university-trained Muslim intelligentsia can be bridged? A: In my childhood, this dualism was not so apparent. At that time, the secular educational system did not lack ethical or moral values, but today the situation is, lamentably, very different. I suppose this is a result of wider social changes. You cannot create an institution like an island. Neither madrasas nor secular schools are islands, cut off from the outside world. They are both influenced by the wider society. Rabindranath Tagore's attempt at creating an ideal educational institution in a rural setting, uninfluenced by negative influences from the wider society, proved to be a failure. A feasible way to overcome this educational dualism is by promoting greater interaction between students and teachers of madrasas and those of schools and colleges, including both Muslims and others. In the past there was this sort of interaction. Many Hindus used to study in madrasas, but not now. Presently, there is very little such interaction and that is why there is such a glaring lack of understanding between the ulema and products of universities. Q: Some ulema might argue that the sort of interaction that you advocate might have a negative impact on the faith of madrasa students. What would you say? A: I don't agree with this. Interaction, based on a spirit of scientific enquiry and learning, is the source of change and progress. There is a tradition about the Caliph Umar which says that he used to learn from all. This learning he got through interacting with different people. Through interaction with others, based on the quest for knowledge, you can refine your own morals and learn to recognize and respect others as fellow human beings. This is precisely what Islam wants. To enable madrasas and their students to interact with others, and for them to come out of the four walls of their seminaries, the best way is to inculcate in them the dawah spirit. For this, madrasas can arrange seminars and conferences to which they can invite people of other faiths as well as Muslims and others from colleges and universities. This sort of interaction will be a great means of promoting knowledge on both sides and will go a long way in dispelling mutual misunderstandings. To take my own example: every day I interact with people, of various social and religious backgrounds. I consider this a blessing, for it provides me knowledge, sensitivity to the humanity of others, rich experiences and moral values. Q: Related to the above question, some ulema might argue that interacting with people of other faiths might negatively impact on the students' Muslim cultural identity. Some ideologues refer to a hadith in this regard which warns Muslims against copying the ways of others. How do you see this argument? A: There is no single Muslim cultural identity, just as there is no single Hindu cultural identity for that matter. This notion of completely separate communal cultural identities has been used as a ploy to keep communities apart from each other and reduce interaction between them. It is a major hindrance to interaction and to successful dawah work. One's identity should be determined by one's piety, not by the dress he or she wears or the food he or she cooks or the language he or she speaks. Some people think that a Muslim's cultural identity is determined by the fact that he uses a pot with a long spout for his ablutions and that a Hindu's identity is determined by the fact that he uses a round pot without a spout. This sort of thinking is stupid, to say the least. In south India, it is often difficult to distinguish a Muslim from a Hindu, because there Hindus and Muslims are almost identical in terms of language and dress. Despite not having a clearly and completely separate cultural identity that sets them apart from the local Hindus, the south Indian Muslims, are, I think, perhaps better Muslims than their north Indian counterparts. There is a lesson that we need to learn from this. Now, as for the hadith report which you referred to, my argument is that it applies only to copying the religious symbols of other religions, such as the Christian cross and the Hindu janeo. Other aspects of material culture are not forbidden, provided, of course, they do not violate the teachings of Islam. Q: What role do you feel the madrasas and the ulema can play in inter-faith dialogue? A: I think they must play a central role, but, unfortunately, this they are not doing. Madrasas do not realize the value of positive interaction with others, including with people of other faiths. Contrary to the fear that interacting with others might negatively impact on the faith and identity of their students, I feel it will strengthen their religious commitment and understanding. In this regard, let me cite the story of a disciple of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi, who complained to him saying that his son was not interested in religion. In response, the Maulana advised him to send his son to a Christian school. After his son enrolled in this school his father discovered that he had become a practicing Muslim because he was constantly challenged there about his faith. His Christian friends frequently asked him about Islam, and so he had to read up on the subject. They asked him about namaz, the Islamic form of prayer, so he started praying. I can cite a similar instance from my own life. Almost half a century ago, when I was in Lucknow, I met a scholar of Hindu background who was an atheist. He told me that if the Prophet Muhammad was removed from history, it would make no difference to the story of the world. Instead of reacting violently, I took this up as a challenge. A process began developing in my mind, because Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad was the last and final prophet and a model for all humankind. This statement forced me to study numerous books about the historical role of the Prophet, and the result of that was my book 'Islam: The Creator of the Modern Age'. This book was, in a sense, a product of the interaction I had with that atheist scholar. If I had not met him I would not have experienced that shock or challenge which forced me to study this subject. So, what I say is that this fear of interaction is baseless and those who play on such fears do not know the value of the challenges that interaction poses. Interaction, done in a positive and conscious way, is itself an important form of education and the source of all knowledge. If madrasas do their part in promoting interaction with people of other faiths, I think it can go a long way in helping to improve Hindu-Muslim relations in India. Q: Are you suggesting that the onus of promoting interaction with others lies on the ulema? What if the other side is not interested in interaction? A: I am not blaming the madrasas at all. I am just pointing out that the Islamic imperative of dawah crucially depends on interaction, with other Muslims and with people of other faiths. Addressing some 1,40,000 of his followers at Mecca on the occasion of the Haj, the Prophet Muhammad said that he had been sent by God with a message and he told his followers to spread this message to the whole of humankind after him. Accordingly, most of these followers left Mecca and Medina and settled in adjacent lands. That is why if you visit Mecca and Medina you will find very few graves of the companions of the Prophet there. Most of them left for other lands, where they settled and, interacting with people there, spread the message of Islam. Many of these companions of the Prophet did not know the language of the people whom they began living among, but yet they interacted with them and a result of that interaction was the present Arab world, stretching from Morocco in the West to Iraq in the West. Q: Perhaps one major hindrance the ulema of the madrasas might face in trying to interact with people of other faiths is that many of them may not be familiar or comfortable with any language other than Urdu. Do you think this is a major problem? A: Where there is a will there is a way. I learnt Hindi and English on my own and I am sure that others with a madrasa background can do so, too, if they have the will. If you interact with others, gradually you will learn their language and will be ableto be sensitive to their culture and traditions. Q: Another issue is the negative images that many madrasa students and teachers might have of people of other faiths. How does one tackle this if the sort of interaction you are calling for is to be promoted? A: There are these negative stereotypes on both sides. I think that this is largely due to lack of interaction. Positive interaction is a great killer of negativity. A Hindu who has no Muslim friends but has only read about Muslims in the media will probably have a very negative opinion about them. On the other hand, a Hindu who lives in a mixed or in a Muslim locality will more likely have a much more positive appreciation of Muslims. Positive interaction is the basis of the process of removing misconceptions, and for this you do not need any artificial schemes or programmes. Let me give you an instance of the power of constructive interaction in removing stereotypes. In a village in Himachal Pradesh there was a small Muslim community which had set up a madrasa. The Hindu villagers had all sorts of negative views and feelings about the madrasa and the maulvis who taught there. One day, some Hindu houses caught fire and, seeing this, the madrasa students rushed to the spot and put down the flames. After that, the attitude of the Hindu villages towards the madrasa changed completely. They became as positive in their appreciation of it as they were negative about it before. This miracle was a result of interaction. Q: Would you recommend that madrasas also teach their students about other faiths? A: Yes, madrasas could also consider teaching their students the basics of other religions. This will enable them, as would-be ulema, to relate more comfortably with people of other faiths. This will also assist them in their dawah work. The teaching of other religions should aim at providing students an objective understanding of other faiths. The earlier approach of denouncing other religions must be given up. You must learn to understand your neighbour even if you do not agree with him. I think bitter polemics are against the ethos of Islam. So, for instance, in my case, when I visit Hindu, Sikh, Christian shrines and other places of worship I try to empty my mind of prejudices, and I have learnt a lot from this. My intention in doing so is to learn, not to debate or to denounce others as inferior. As I see it, dawah is an expression of sympathy for others, not hostility. It has anything to do with pride based on the feeling that one is superior to others. The Quran asks us to be sympathetic well-wishers of others. Q: Another obstacle in enabling the ulema to interact with others could be the fear of rejection due to anti-Muslim prejudice. Do you agree? A: My point is that dawah and healthy interaction require great patience, endurance and personal sacrifice. To cite a personal example, when I shifted to Delhi many years ago I learnt about a group of Hindus who would meet once a week at a certain place. I was keen to interact with them and so I started attending these weekly get-togethers. At one of these meetings, a man, whose name was Malik Ram Sarraf, came up to me and told me something which he claimed was in the Quran. I replied that it was not. He responded by saying that it indeed was. He said that he knew Urdu and had read the translation of the Quran several times. He told me that I was ignorant. Now, this was a matter of great humiliation for me and his derogatory remarks about the Quran hurt me very badly. Yet, I tolerated what he said. I was not rude to him. As a result, over time, Malik Ram Sarraf became a good friend of mine. This was the fruit of patience and adjustment that is needed in dawah work. Q: How do you react to charges about Indian madrasas being allegedly involved in promoting 'terrorism'? A: This charge is completely baseless. There is no such madrasa in India which is engaged in this sort of work. Yes, it is true that there are some madrasas in Pakistan that are doing this, but even there I would say it is not so much a madrasa phenomenon as much as it is a Pakistani phenomenon. Just the other day the Pakistani Parliamentary Secretary for Defence, Syed Tanveer Husain, called for what he called jihad against India in the Parliament! This is total madness. This man is not a madrasa graduate, and so terrorism in some madrasas in Pakistan is a specifically Pakistani issue, rather than one of madrasas as such. It is a reflection of a particularly distorted version or understanding of Islam that has developed in Pakistan over the years, which has been used as a means to promote certain vested interest. Unfortunately, some sections of the media wrongly equate Indian and Pakistani madrasas and so assume that the former are engaged in terrorism just as some of the latter are. This is wholly incorrect. Q: Can you elaborate on this point about the exploitation of Islam in Pakistan? What exactly do you mean? A: The Pakistan movement was basically centred on the demand for a separate land, and for this Islam was used as a tool for popular mobilization. People have the right to demand a land of their own, but why should you exploit religion for that? This is not right. Those behind the Pakistan movement claimed that Pakistan and Islam are one and the same and argued that they needed a separate Pakistan in order to establish Islam. This is totally wrong. Islam cannot be established by grabbing land. Rather, it can only be established if it rests firmly in individuals' hearts and minds. The Prophet Muhammad once pointed to his heart and said that taqwa or piety resides therein. Exploitation is the source of all evil, and since Islam has been exploited by the leaders of Pakistan ever since the country's inception it was natural that the country became the nursery of conflict and strife, unfortunately in the name of Islam, which Islam does not allow for at all. Q: Why is it that most madrasa students tend to come from poorer families? This was not the case in the pre-colonial period. A: The cause lies in the educational dualism that I referred to earlier and to the fact that middle class parents would prefer to send their children to 'modern' schools because the jobs that madrasa graduates get are not well-paid. The salary of madrasa teachers must be increased. In that way one can hope that brighter children might prefer to enroll in madrasas and become ulema. In the past, madrasas produced brilliant scholars and leaders, such as Shabbir Ahmad Usmani, Husain Ahmad Madani and Abul Kalam Azad, who played a vital role in India's political life, but this is not the case today. Q: How do you look at the sensationalist and distorted reporting about madrasas in large sections of the mass media? A: The media is impelled by profit-making motives and thrives on 'hot' news in order to feed the market it caters to. The media is not interested in 'soft' news because that is not profitable. So it thrives on sensational news and selective reportage. One day I was listening to the Hindi service of a radio station and a listener called up from Mauritius and asked why the radio station did not give much coverage to Mauritius, which also has a large Hindi-speaking population. The programme presenter replied, half-jokingly, that the media is based on 'hot' news and that no such 'hot' news ever seems to emanate from Mauritius! 'Create some hot news there', he told the caller, 'and we'll report about your country'. The point is that if you want to change the way the media reports something, you have to work at changing people's mindsets. Q: What are your views on the proposed national-level Madrasa Board that some government bureaucrats are suggesting? A: In theory this sounds fine, particularly in order to centralize the madrasa system. The problem, however, is of lack of good rapport between the madrasas and the government, in the absence of which such a Board can serve little purpose. Many ulema doubt the government's intentions. In any case, if such a Board comes into being its policies and activities must be framed and implemented through consultations with the ulema. The ulema must make the decisions and the government officers should do as they advise them. -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping From patrice at xs4all.nl Mon Aug 13 01:25:31 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:55:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Karl Marx on the Indian 'Mutiny' (1857) Message-ID: <10900.195.169.149.4.1186948531.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> original to: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/09/16.htm You can find more articles on the Indian Revolt on: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/new-york-tribune.htm (foer the year 1857) (The following article was published in Le Monde Diplomatique of this month.) Karl Marx in the New-York Tribune 1857 The Indian Revolt Source: New-York Daily Tribune, September 16, 1857; Transcribed: by Tony Brown. London, Sept. 4, 1857 The outrages committed by the revolted Sepoys in India are indeed appalling, hideous, ineffable — such as one is prepared to meet – only in wars of insurrection, of nationalities, of races, and above all of religion; in one word, such as respectable England used to applaud when perpetrated by the Vendeans on the “Blues,” by the Spanish guerrillas on the infidel Frenchmen, by Servians on their German and Hungarian neighbors, by Croats on Viennese rebels, by Cavaignac’s Garde Mobile or Bonaparte’s Decembrists on the sons and daughters of proletarian France. However infamous the conduct of the Sepoys, it is only the reflex, in a concentrated form, of England’s own conduct in India, not only during the epoch of the foundation of her Eastern Empire, but even during the last ten years of a long-settled rule. To characterize that rule, it suffices to say that torture formed ail organic institution of its financial policy. There is something in human history like retribution: and it is a rule of historical retribution that its instrument be forged not by the offended, but by the offender himself. The first blow dealt to the French monarchy proceeded from the nobility, not from the peasants. The Indian revolt does not commence with the Ryots, tortured, dishonored and stripped naked by the British, but with the Sepoys, clad, fed, petted, fatted and pampered by them. To find parallels to the Sepoy atrocities, we need not, as some London papers pretend, fall back on the middle ages, not, even wander beyond the history of contemporary England. All we want is to study the first Chinese war, an event, so to say, of yesterday. The English soldiery then committed abominations for the mere fun of it; their passions being neither sanctified by religious fanaticism nor exacerbated by hatred against an overbearing and conquering race, nor provoked by the stern resistance of a heroic enemy. The violations of women, the spittings of children, the roastings of whole villages, were then mere wanton sports, not recorded by Mandarins, but by British officers themselves. Even at the present catastrophe it would be an unmitigated mistake to suppose that all the cruelty is on the side of the Sepoys, and all the milk of human kindness flows on the side of the English. The letters of the British officers are redolent of malignity. An officer writing from Peshawur gives a description of the disarming of the 10th irregular cavalry for not charging the 55th native infantry when ordered to do so. He exults in the fact that they were not only disarmed, but stripped of their coats and boots, and after having received 12d. per man, were marched down to the river side, and there embarked in boats and sent down the Indus, where the writer is delighted to expect every mother’s son will have a chance of being drowned in the rapids. Another writer informs us that, some inhabitants of Peshawur having caused a night alarm by exploding little mines of gunpowder in honor of a wedding (a national custom), the persons concerned were tied up next morning, and “received such a flogging as they will not easily forget.” News arrived from Pindee that three native chiefs were plotting. Sir John Lawrence replied by a message ordering a spy to attend to the meeting. On the spy’s report, Sir John sent a second message, “Hang them.” The chiefs were hanged. An officer in the civil service, from Allahabad, writes: “We have power of life and death in our hands, and we assure you we spare not.” Another, from the same place: “Not a day passes but we string up front ten to fifteen of them (non-combatants).” One exulting officer writes: “Holmes is hanging them by the score, like a ‘brick.’” Another, in allusion to the summary hanging of a large body of the natives: “Then our fun commenced.” A third: “We hold court-martials on horseback, and every nigger we meet with we either string up or shoot.” >From Benares we are informed that thirty Zemindars were hanged or) the mere suspicion of sympathizing with their own countrymen, and whole villages were burned down on the same plea. An officer from Benares, whose letter is printed in The London Times, says: “The European troops have become fiends when opposed to natives.” And then it should not be forgotten that, while the cruelties of the English are related as acts of martial vigor, told simply, rapidly, without dwelling on disgusting details, the outrages of the natives, shocking as they are, are still deliberately exaggerated. For instance, the circumstantial account first appearing in The Times, and then going the round of the London press, of the atrocities perpetrated at Delhi and Meerut, from whom did it proceed? From a cowardly parson residing at Bangalore, Mysore, more than a thousand miles, as the bird flies, distant from the scene of action. Actual accounts of Delhi evince the imagination of an English parson to be capable of breeding greater horrors than even the wild fancy of a Hindoo mutineer. The cutting of noses, breasts, &c., in one word, the horrid mutilations committed by the Sepoys, are of course more revolting to European feeling than the throwing of red-hot shell on Canton dwellings by a Secretary of the Manchester Peace Society, or the roasting of Arabs pent up in a cave by a French Marshal, or the flaying alive of British soldiers by the cat-o’-nine-tails under drum-head court-martial, or any other of the philanthropical appliances used in British penitentiary colonies. Cruelty, like every other thing, has its fashion, changing according to time and place. Caesar, the accomplished scholar, candidly narrates how he ordered many thousand Gallic warriors to have their right hands cut off. Napoleon would have been ashamed to do this. He preferred dispatching his own French regiments, suspected of republicanism, to St. Domingo, there to die of the blacks and the plague. The infamous mutilations committed by the Sepoys remind one of the practices of the Christian Byzantine Empire, or the prescriptions of Emperor Charles V.’s criminal law, or the English punishments for high treason, as still recorded by Judge Blackstone. With Hindoos, whom their religion has made virtuosi in the art of self-torturing, these tortures inflicted on the enemies of their race and creed appear quite natural, and must appear still more so to the English, who, only some years since, still used to draw revenues from the Juggernaut festivals, protecting and assisting the bloody rites of a religion of cruelty. The frantic roars of the “bloody old Times,” as Cobbett used to call it – its, playing the part of a furious character in one of Mozart’s operas, who indulges in most melodious strains in the idea of first hanging his enemy, then roasting him, then quartering him, then spitting him, and then flaying him alive — its tearing the passion of revenge to tatters and to rags – all this would appear but silly if under the pathos of tragedy there were not distinctly perceptible the tricks of comedy. The London Times overdoes its part, not only from panic. It supplies comedy with a subject even missed by Molière, the Tartuffe of Revenge. What it simply wants is to write up the funds and to screen the Government. As Delhi has not, like the walls of Jericho, fallen before mere puffs of wind, Jolin Bull is to be steeped in cries for revenge up to his very ears, to make him forget that his Government is responsible for the mischief hatched and the colossal dimensions it has been allowed to assume. From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 02:00:15 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:30:15 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., offici In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708121328j56191d29rd9a8623e02f21d38@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0708100352k13ccb45bi47bfce796cb26609@mail.gmail.com> <585773.59953.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0708121328j56191d29rd9a8623e02f21d38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708121330w7be2b4f7te9372a5626477c51@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra thanks for writing. comments below. On 8/11/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Allow me a few observations. > > 1. Iqbal was not a Kashmiri Pandit. His ancestors were Kashmiri Pandits. > Iqbal was a Muslim. Yes I think Iqbal would be comfortable with this distance (ancestors). > > 2. Your mentioning the Kashmiri Pandit connection only serves as a reminder > that a once Kashmiri Pandit majority region in just a few hundred years > became a Muslim majority area and along with it the reminder brings the > history of how the switchover took place. This is not the time and place to > go into it. It is a painful reminder. Calling Iqbal a Kashmiri Pandit is an > abuse of Kashmiri Pandit sensitivities about a unique ethnicity which is on > the verge of extinction. I dont know if the region becoming muslim majority was necessarily a good or a bad thing over the 1000 year history as you suggest. With due consideration of KP sensitivities, i'll leave this judgment to someone else. > > 3. "Saaray Jahaan say achhaa...." is one of the National Songs of India. It > is amusing that it recognised as being so with Indians not realising the > full import of this "Taraana e Hind". the controversies over Bankim Chattopadhyay's vande mataram, Tagore's jana gana mana are just as amusing. but such amalgamations and blends are the stuff of history and everyday life. how can you escape. > > "Taraana e Hind" celebrates and declares the Claim of Muslims on > "Hind". It that respect it is not very much different from Iqbal's "Taraana > e Milli". It does not address all the people of "Hind". It is meant only for > "Muslims". it is very different and very similar http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/index.html? http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/juxtaposition.html http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/comparison.html > > 4. Before ill-informed hackles become antennae tuning into presumed > suspicious and prejudiced intent, let me explain. didnt know you had an interest in astrology > > After celebrating the glory of "Hindustaan" in the first few couplets, > Iqbal reveals his mind in: > > ai aab-e-ruud-e-gangaa vo din hai yaad tujh ko > utaraa tere kinaare jab kaaravaa.N hamaaraa > > Iqbal asks River Ganga to recollect the time when "hamaara kaarvaan" > descended on it's banks. The "haamaara' is the Muslim collective, the > "Ummah" in the form of advent of Islam. The indigenous faith people were > always resident on the banks of Ganga. for the litarary and folk minded however to reach is the shore is a blessed thing - mujhe paar laga, beda paar kar. there is no reference to an ummah here and besides thats too puritanical - mulla-ish. so reaching the ganges is like reaching the shores of heaven, or may be its even betterr? just the previous verse says this ! why ignore this one? Godee mein khailtee hein uss kee hazaaron naddiyaan Gulshan hai jin ke dam se rask-e-jinaa~ hamaara in [her] lap play all her thousands of rivers thanks to which our garden is the envy of Paradise(s) [jannat-paradise, jinaan-plural, nasalised jinaa~ - poetic] > Similarly, lack of knowledge about Islamic terminology has led to a > spin quite different from the inherent meaning in: > > mazhab nahii.n sikhaataa aapas me.n bair rakhanaa > hindii hai.n ham vatan hai hindustaa.N hamaaraa > > "Mazhab" does not refer to "Religions" of Hindustaan being asked to not > harbour enmity against each other. "Mazhab" (variant of Maddhab in Arabic) > is a specific term used in Islam for "sects". The religion of Islam by > itself is called "Deen". "Sunni" and "Shia" would be "Mazhabs". The couplet > addresses itself to Muslims belonging to various sects in Islam i think your reading is without doubt narrow - based on the internal contextual meaning of mazhab-i-islam and mazahibs within. but in the multireligious context ie everyday life, there is hindu mat or hindu mazhab, buddh mat or buddh mazhab or eesai or yahudi mazhab. so mazahib is all religions of hind in this context. something else which supports this is that we are not dealing in arabic here. we are talking about an Urdu ghazal or two Urdu ghazals in the Indian context - well that goes without saying - how much more Indian can u get ! > Yasir, your well intentioned messages addressed to Rashneek also merit > comment but I will not inflict too much on you. wait i have to scratch my elbow > > In my opinion your grossly underestimate both the strength of the J-Lobby in > Pakistan and the pervasiveness of the J-Sentiment amongst the masses of > Pakistan. The "askari" (armed) J-Sentiment is directed against both people > of other "Deen" (Religions) and followers of differing "maddhabs" (sects > within Islam) that is my estimation, thank you. 'deen' is closer to 'faith' or 'doctrine' mazhab is as close to religion or sect as you can get - meaning the whole of practices beliefs etc of that group. unless you are going to a seminary, you'd stick with ordinary street/household/literary usage. > > I personally monitor only 3 Pakistani TV Channels and Internet editions of > 3 Pakistani English Newspapers. The picture that emerges is quite quite > different from your all too optimistic scenarios. It is likely to be more > horrifying with greater exposure to Pakistani Media, especially the > "indigenous languages" newspapers. yes I would find it horrifying if it were so, but i dont from here on the ground, plus all the media. in fact the current trend is to check appurtenances of zia's legacy, some of course credit this to the other side. > > Yasir, it is simplistically believed that the "hate others" attitude in > Pakistan is nurtured and propagated only by the "Madrassas". The "hate" > indoctrination of young Pakistani minds is an automatic product of the > syllabi in Govt. Schools. In is in those schools that the overwhelmingly > overwhelming majority of Pakistani children school. i think an overstatement. it is not that automatic. other factors are religousity/sect of parents, region-social setup, etc. The textbooks are nationalistic (with a dose of islamic ideology but not extremism) and revisionist. Adjectives from the american idiom (hate, other) or soviet (indoctrination ) need not apply. > > If this interests you, please do get in touch with "Sustainable Development > Policy Institute - Islamabad" ( http://www.sdpi.org/ ) The Institute's A M > Nayyar and Ahmed Salim have done some good work in researching Pakistani > textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civic Studies. I have worked in the education sector and have visited sdpi many times. thanks. best y From kalakamra at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 02:03:10 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:03:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Our response to police action against Jashn-e - Azadi Message-ID: <33eee40c0708121333m65963dcr990b3b02115d04d7@mail.gmail.com> Post Screening Video Chat with Audience and Film Director: The files are in ogg format and you can use versatile VLC player to play this and all other video formants. Download VLC : http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ why nice OGG? http://maketelevision.com/log/why_ogg_theora_matters_for_internet_tv video links: http://chitrakarkhana.net/azadi/ right click or double click to save as...either the full talk or parts 1, 2 and 3. -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From pkray11 at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 10:28:31 2007 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:28:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Taslima Message-ID: <98f331e00708122158r77e51637ncaad28a7c15030e6@mail.gmail.com> *I, on behalf of Cinemela Collectives, strongly condemn the physical attack on Taslima Nasreen, a Bangladeshi writer. This attack is entirely against the democratic and secular character of the Indian polity and we cannot tolerate it in any manner. * *One may have differences over the writings or any other kind of artistic articulations of Taslima Nasreen or anybody else, but this definitely is not the appropriate manner to express dissent. This very act militates against the freedom of expression. * *We demand that the Andhra Pradesh government take firm action against the culprits responsible for this attack and the writer must be provided with adequate security. We also urge the govts to stop those people who are openly threatening artists and cultural activists. * ** *We call upon the democratic-minded people to stand in firm solidarity against the fundamentalists of all kinds.* ** *Prakash K Ray* *Convenor, Cinemela Collectives * From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Sun Aug 12 16:15:14 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:15:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Murders in 'fit of passion' don't deserve death: Apex court Message-ID: Murders in 'fit of passion' don't deserve death: Apex court *IANS* *Link:* http://www.newkerala.com/july.php?action=fullnews&id=53137 New Delhi, Aug 12: In what has alarmed friends of slain Delhi University law student Priyadarshini Mattoo, the Supreme Court has held that even a double murder committed "in a fit of passion" after an abortive rape bid does not deserve death penalty. A bench of Justice S.B. Sinha and Justice Markandey Katju earlier this week upheld a Punjab and Haryana High Court ruling, which commuted a death sentence imposed on a double murder convict by a lower court to life term. Kulvinder Singh had in August 2002 hacked Hardeep Kaur to death in a Punjab village after she resisted his bid to rape her. He also killed the girl's grandmother who tried to save her. "While upholding the conviction of the accused for murder, we reduce the sentence to life imprisonment since it appears that the crime was committed in a fit of passion and does not come within the category of the 'rarest of rare' to deserve death penalty," the apex court bench ruled. The sessions court had sentenced Kulvinder Singh to death saying: "The conduct of the accused depicted him as a person who constituted a threat to the society. He has forfeited his right to life by his barbarity." The Supreme Court ruling has alarmed Priyadarshini Matoo's friends and relatives. The 23-year-old was raped and murdered in January 1996 by Santosh Singh. Santosh, son of senior police officer J.P. Singh, had been allegedly stalking the girl for over a year. Aditya Raj Kaul, who spearheaded the campaign 'Justice to Priyadarshini Mattoo' after a Delhi court acquitted Santosh, said: "It's a shocking ruling from the highest court of the country." "At this rate, Santosh Singh's lawyer may also argue before the apex court that he committed the crime in a fit of passion after he failed to rape her and may escape the gallows. "After all Santosh Singh and his lawyers can conveniently cite his past conduct of consistently stalking her and convince the court that he had a passion aflame for Mattoo," he added. "This judgment has alarmed us. I will soon discuss it with our friends about what we should do in such a situation," Kaul said. --- IANS *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From arshad.mcrc at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 11:33:58 2007 From: arshad.mcrc at gmail.com (arshad amanullah) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 23:03:58 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Mecca's hallowed skyline transformed Message-ID: <2076f31d0708122303h5f2adb95hccbf29aa5ce8cc3b@mail.gmail.com> By SALAH NASRAWI, Associated Press Writer MECCA, Saudi Arabia - These days it's easier to find a Cinnabon in Meccathan the house where the Prophet Muhammad was born. The ancient sites in Islam's holiest city are under attack from both money and extreme religion. Developers are building giant glass and marble towers that loom over the revered Kaaba which millions of Muslims face in their daily prayers. At the same time, religious zealots continue to work, as they have for decades, to destroy landmarks that they say encourage the worship of idols instead of God. As a result, some complain that the kingdom's Islamic austerity and oil-stoked capitalism are robbing this city of its history. "To me, Mecca is not a city. It is a sanctuary. It is a place of diversity and tolerance. ... Unfortunately it isn't anymore," said Sami Angawi, a Saudi architect who has devoted his life to preserving what remains of the area's history. "Every day you come and see the buildings becoming bigger and bigger and higher and higher." Abraj al-Bait is a complex of seven towers, some of them still under construction, rising only yards from the Kaaba, the cube-like black shrine at the center of Muslim worship in Mecca. "Be a neighbor to the Prophet," promises an Arabic-language newspaper ad for apartments there. The towers are the biggest of the giant construction projects that have gone up in recent years, as the number of Muslims attending the hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, has swelled to nearly 4 million last year. Saudi Arabia is trying to better serve the growing upscale end of the pilgrimage crowd, while investors — many of them members of the Saudi royal family — realize the huge profits to be made. Saudi Arabia boasts that Abraj al-Bait — Arabic for "Towers of the House," referring to the Kaaba's nickname, "the house of God" — will be the largest building in the world in terms of floor space. Developers have said the completed building will total 15.6 million square feet — more than twice the floor space of the Pentagon, the largest in the United States. Three of the towers, each nearly 30 stories, are already completed, and the others are rapidly going up. A mall at their base has already opened, where customers — many of them in the simple white robes of pilgrims — shop at international chains such as The Body Shop and eat at fast-food restaurants. Other nearby complexes include upscale hotels. The building boom is in some cases destroying Mecca's historic heritage, not just overshadowing it. In 2002, Saudi authorities tore down a 200-year-old fort built by the city's then-rulers, the Ottomans, on a hill overlooking the Kaaba to build a multi-million-dollar housing complex for pilgrims. The holy sites have also been targeted for decades by the clerics who give Saudi Arabia's leadership religious legitimacy. In their puritanical Wahhabi view, worship at historic sites connected to mere mortals — such as Muhammad or his contemporaries — can easily become a form of idolatry. (Worship at the Kabaa, which is ordered in the Quran, is an exception.) "Obviously, this is an exaggerated interpretation. But unfortunately, it is favored among officials," said Anwar Eshky, a Saudi analyst and head of a Jiddah-based research center. The house where Muhammad is believed to have been born in 570 now lies under a rundown building overshadowed by a giant royal palace and hotel towers. The then king, Abdul-Aziz, ordered a library built on top of the site 70 years ago as a compromise after Wahhabi clerics called for it to be torn down. Other sites disappeared long ago, as Saudi authorities expanded the Grand Mosque around the Kaaba in the 1980s. The house of Khadija, Muhammad's first wife, where Muslims believe he received some of the first revelations of the Quran, was lost under the construction, as was the Dar al-Arqam, the first Islamic school, where Muhammad taught. At Hira'a Cave, where Muhammad is believed to have received the first verses of the Quran in the mountains on the edge of Mecca, a warning posted by Wahhabi religious police warns pilgrims not to pray or "touch stones" to receive blessings. In Medina, 250 miles north of Mecca, Muhammad's tomb is the only shrine to have survived the Wahhabis, and a monumental mosque has been built around it. But religious police bar visitors from praying in the tomb chamber or touching the silver cage around it. "You shouldn't do that," a bearded policeman tells pilgrims trying to pray at the site. Outside the Prophet's Mosque, Wahhabis have destroyed the Baqi, a large cemetery where tombs of several of the Prophet's wives, daughters, sons and as many as six grandsons and Shiite saints were once located. Grave markers at the site have been bulldozed away, and religious police open the site only once a day to let in male pilgrims. The visitors are prevented from praying. "It is pretty sad that our imams do not even have tombstones to tell where they are buried," said Indian pilgrim Zuhairi Mashouk Khan, who was weeping because he was barred from praying at the site. "They deserve a shrine as monumental as Taj Mahal." Several Islamic groups, such as the U.K.-based Islamic Heritage and Research Foundation and the U.S- based Institute for Gulf Affairs, are campaigning to restore ancient sites. Khaled Azab, an Egyptian expert on Islamic heritage at the Bibliotheca Alexandria, suggests that the Saudi government should bring in UNESCO to help. But after years of campaigning, Angawi is on the verge of giving up. "I have been saying this for 35 years but nobody listens," he said. "It is becoming hopeless case." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070812/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mecca_lost_heritage) From atreyee.m at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 11:46:47 2007 From: atreyee.m at gmail.com (atreyee majumder) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:46:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1944bc230708122316p4c34e5c1t88204e48894dd5f7@mail.gmail.com> This has been one of the most engaging conversations on libertarian walls and curtains of 'freedoms'.My naive reactions: 1. As we scoff and rave and rant about the state's paternalistic anxiety about letting (what it thinks to be) dangerous be circulated lose amongst its impressionable subjects, should we also not be a little suspicious of our 'libertarian' distrust of what irrational illiberals might do to our comfortable liberty-zones. What is it sets apart a liberal rational liberty-friendly speech from irrational, illiberal, intolerant speech? Is it the pathhars thrown at movie theatres, the gheraos, the public effigies of authors of forbidden books? If that be so, then should we not take a few steps back to think whether 'liberal' intolerance takes, if not the stone-throwing form, then maybe other insidious forms? Through which 'irrational', ''illiberal' expressions are continuously edited, translated, volume-turned-down, visuals-wiped-out, maybe. 2. The traditional debates of how 'liberal' is the 'liberal' that does not tolerate speech from outside the 'liberal' worldview, perhaps, comes alive in this situation. The libertarian discursive site would probably offer the cut-n-dry solution of 'think what you want to, say what u want, paint what u want to, film what u want to, don't smash any noses'. That kind of fits in with the our collective 'liberal' outrage at film screenings being stopped ( I am a 'liberal' myself, and want Taslima's book to be published, though I have rarely liked her writing), books being shoved under the carpet, films being snipped at the censor table. Are we not picturing restraints on liberty through too narrow a 'nose-smashing' lens? And then we are quite content to see liberty safeguarded, as long as no expletives are thrown about in e-group communications, people respond to the points being debated and not make personal attacks, and hatred against books and films that take controversial positions being couched in polite language. Is the 'liberal' then not very much grander than just 'polite'? 3. Since we are agreed, more or less, on artistic speech being benign, but Togadia, Modi, police et al being violent, I come back to a fundamental question- what is the exact dividing line between speech (as a proactive gesture, that may or may not be violent/aggressive) and other forms of proactive gestures (that may or may not be violent/aggressive). Disclaimers: 1. Apologies for sounding obtuse:) 2. These are only reactions from the general flow of the conversation, and are not directed at any person, book, film, painting, other speeches/speakers. 3. How 'liberal' am I !!!! On 8/12/07, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: > > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad (Anjalika Sagar) > 2. ANN re:place 2007 conference, Berlin, 15-18 November 2007 > (Image Science) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:10:40 +0100 > From: Anjalika Sagar > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad > To: Kshmendra Kaul > Cc: sarai list , shuddha at sarai.net > Message-ID: <46BF3F10.8000005 at blueyonder.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed > > > Worse - I really do believe that it is a rhetoric designed to appeal to > a certain Western art world/ new media milieu that enjoy hearing the > take of self defined translatable experts representative of South Asia - > who always quite tediously use a libertarian discourse that presents > India as a space that is coherently monitored by the 'police' - wow > ...the thought police !!! . This tactic presents India as a place in > need of liberating, in need of emancipation. But by whom pray is this to > be done ... and to what ends, and whom does all this liberating benefit? > It always benefits someone right - be it the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo > or the weapons dealer. > > I agree with the writer of the text below but I would add that I feel u > r locating in your critique - a disembodied representation of issues and > events..... I believe u r demanding that one should be honest about > where one is from and ones privileges, otherwise how are we to > comprehend these so called political positions by the self defined so > called experts.. > > > In Haste Anjali > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Shuddha > > > > A. > > > > You wrote: > > "It appears that if there is one thing that religious > fundamentalists, communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians > agree on is the necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda." > > How do you categorise yourself Shuddha? Which grouping do you belong > to? Your answer would be very interesting. > > > > What you might want to consider is that there is no such animal as > "unbridled freedom". The foundations of "free" organised societies are > "regulated freedoms". Freedom without any curbs on expression or action are > "animalistic". > > > > I should correct myself; even in the non-human domains whether by > genetic imprinting or instinct or some primordial intelligence, creatures > atmost time define the limits of "freedom" they allow each other within the > species they belong to. Even the inter-species cosmos exists with it's own > checks and balances. > > > > The subject to dwell upon would be whether the "freedoms" are > allowedwith a bias favouring some and prejudicial to others. That is not > being discussed here. > > > > Shuddha, if instead of an Indian citizen you see yourself as a Netizen > please be aware that in the cyber space domain also you have only as much > freedom as will be "allowed" to you whether by those who run the "servers" > or those who arrange the Bits and Bytes. > > > > B. > > > > You also wrote: > > "If the self appointed representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit > community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on this list and > elsewhere....." > > Who does your voice represent Shuddha? Are you the "self appointed" > voice of reason while others are "venom" pourers? I see a lot of "venom" in > your own words. > > > > Equating Kashmiri Pandits speaking (speech) against Sanjay Kak's > docuwith the assault (action) by MIM activists does not make a good > comparative analogy. If you think otherwise then why should you exclude > acceptance that the writings of Taslima Nasreen (speech) are equated with > assault (action) by some. > > > > It might help you understand things better Shuddha if you discussed > with the Kashmiri Pandit "voices" what exactly is their beef about Sanjay > Kak's docu, instead of just dismissing them as part of "bigotry and > cussedness" > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org and the Sarai > Reader > > List) > > > > The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown how fragile the > > freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks whenever a > > sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments challenged'. Are all > > these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing screenings and readings > > suffering from some early childhood trauma that makes it difficult for > > them to countenance growing up and acquiring the ability to listen to > > contrary point of view? How long are we to be held hostage to their > > infantile suffering? > > > > What is worse is the fact that the people who attacked her, and have > > made public threats to kill her - activists and elected representatives > > belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated Razakars, were > > arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message that the state sends > > out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken to a police station > > to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be splashed in the media, > > go home and make some more threats" > > > > see - http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > > > > In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express today, it is Ms. > > Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - the same section of > > the penal code that was earlier used to detain the unfortunate art > > student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and Christian sentiments'. So > > as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh is concerned, person > > who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a prominent politician is > > innocent, and the writer herself, who has never threatened to kill > > anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is guilty of inciting > > hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be no greater travesty > > of justice than this incident, and it once again demonstrates how > > willing state power in India is to dance in tandem with bigots. It > > happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress ruled Andhra > > Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled West Bengal. > > > > Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and cussedness is not the > > monopoly of the self appointed representatives of any one community or > > political tendency. If the self appointed representatives of the > > Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour venom on Sanjay Kak on > > this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their ardour by the > > viciousness of those who have appointed themselves the guardians of > > Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and Christian dignity in > > Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short memories) let us remember > > that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and hounded and her > > publication banned in an Indian state, it just happenned to be in West > > Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and this happenned because > > the secular progressive left front regime, led by the Contractors Party > > of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the sanitized cultural > > landscape that they so vigorously uphold and maintain in that state. > > > > The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found it necessary to > > publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its issue dated November > > 7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for this lengthy > quotation) > > > > "THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban Bangladeshi author > > Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita (‘Split in > Two’) because it > > was feared that the book would incite communal violence. At no point of > > time has the book been proscribed on political or literary grounds. > > > > In a government notification issued on November 28, the state LF > > government has formally invoked the ban under section 95 of the code of > > Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian Penal Code (where it > > is considered a criminal and punishable act to create enmity, rivalry, > > and hatred amongst religious communities. > > > > State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said that there was > > apprehension expressed widely that the book would spark off communal > > tension, and that very many experts in the field supported this view. > > The LF government has banned the book for the sake of the upkeep of > > democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have expressed similar > > feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time the Left Front has > been > > office in Bengal not a single book or publication has been proscribed on > > political grounds.†However, said Biswas, it was a different matter > > altogether if a publication or a book incited terrorism and communalism. > > > > Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee whose department > > issued the notification banning the book, said that he had himself read > > the book “several times over.†that he has “persuaded at > least 25 noted > > specialists to go through the book critically†and that they have > > recommended the book to be not fit for circulation among the reading > > public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book contain very > > derogatory and provocative references that go against the grain of the > > tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. > > > > Several noted authors including the poet Sunil Gangopadhyay, the > > novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and Syed Mustafa Siraj, the > > Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman Chatterjee, as well > > as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, Subrata Mukherjee, > > among others, have come openly out against the book and have supported > > the decision by the state LF government to get the book banned. > > > > Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called Taslima Nasreen a > > blot on the world of women, has described the book as having no > > difference with a piece of pornography and has said that nobody ought to > > assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious community. > > > > The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s multi-volume autobiography > has > > been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and Bengal with obscenity > > and has come under fire for its maligning and falsified personal > > references to the lives of several noted scholars of Bengal and > > Bangladesh as well. > > > > However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while speaking to the media > > in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact that portions of the > > book would cause religious disharmony to break out, with the religious > > fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame of communal fire. > > > > True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has supported Taslima > > Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has opposed the > > proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has chosen to hold her > > silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many other matters as > well." > > > > It appears that if there is one thing that religious fundamentalists, > > communal, nationalist, secular and leftist politicians agree on is the > > necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. > > > > There is only one possible ethical response to this pathetic display of > > arrogance by the self appointed representatives of Hindu, Muslim, > > Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to ensure the widest > > possible circulation of these materials in the public domain. It is to > > organize as many screenings as possible of a film like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > > (or any other film that is attacked in a similar fashion) and to hold > > public readings and distributions of the books of someone like Taslima > > Nasreen. > > > > In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay by Taslima Nasreen > > that had been first published in English in Sarai Reader 04: Turbuluence > > > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > > > She wrote - > > > > "Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been banned earlier in > > Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. The communal > > tension raging through South Asia is not caused by my books but by other > > reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, the killing of > Muslims > > in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the attacks against > > Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan have all occurred > > without any contribution from me. Even if I am an insignificant writer, > > I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that every human being > > is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the basis of gender, > > colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. Riots don’t > break > > out because of what I write. But I am the one who is punished for what I > > write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has to suffer exile. I am > > the one who is homeless everywhere." > > > > > > If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and artists are not > > 'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that they receive the > > hospitality that enables the conditions that allow their work, thought > > and expression to continue to have a public life. This means making sure > > that their work lives and continues to breathe in society, by any means > > necessary. > > > > For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, some of Taslima > > Nasrin's work is available in the form of downloadable pdfs from > > www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev Bhattacharya decided, > > after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals to ban her book, I > > decided to download the said book, make twenty six photocopies of the > > entire book bind them and distribute them free. > > > > That is one method to deal with censorship (formal or informal) I am > > sure that there are other, more creative methods out there as well. I > > would welcome practical suggestions from those in the community of the > > people who are reading this post > > about how these attacks on the freedom of expression may be confronted > > and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time for peaceful film > > watching and reading. > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:52:26 +0200 > From: "Image Science" > Subject: [Reader-list] ANN re:place 2007 conference, Berlin, 15-18 > November 2007 > To: > Message-ID: <46BF64FA0200007D00003BE8 at gwgwia.donau-uni.ac.at> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > re:place 2007 > > The Second International Conference on the Histories of Media, Art, > Science and Technology > > Location: Haus der Kulturen der Welt, Berlin > Date: 15-18 November 2007 > > Information: http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace > > > An interdisciplinary forum of over 70 researchers > and artists from all over the world, re:place > 2007 presents multiple historical relations > between art, science and technology. The title > 're:place' refers to the sites and the migration > of artistic and knowledge production. This theme > is highlighted during the panel discussions and > poster sessions, particularly in the 'Place > Studies' stream which looks at specific > historical instances and settings. Special > attention will be given to alternatives to the > 'Western' historical paradigms through > presentations about art-science relations in the > former Soviet Union, Africa, and Latin America. > The conference includes general forum discussions > on interdisciplinary research strategies, as well > as keynote lectures by Lorraine Daston and > Siegfried Zielinski. > > replace 2007 is a project of Kulturprojekte > Berlin GmbH in cooperation with Haus der Kulturen > der Welt, Berlin. Funded by > Hauptstadtkulturfonds, Berlin. Conference > partners include Leonardo, Database of Virtual > Art at Danube University Krems' Center for Image > Science, Ludwig Boltzmann Institute > Media.Art.Research, Helmholtz-Zentrum für > Kulturtechnik at Humboldt Universität Berlin, > Institut für Auslandsbeziehungen, and others. > Supported by Tschechisches Zentrum Berlin - > CzechPoint and Schwedische Botschaft Berlin. > > Conference chairs: Andreas Broeckmann (D), Gunalan Nadarajan (SG/USA) > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Conference ticket (3 days): EUR 50 (full) / EUR 20 (concessions) > Day ticket: EUR 25 (full) / EUR 10 (concessions) > > Contact and information: > replace at mikro.in-berlin.de, > http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > PRAGUE / art - science - media - theory / BERLIN > 8-18 NOVEMBER 2007 > > Three major conference events on art, science and > media theory will take place in Prague and Berlin > this November. Visit the MutaMorphosis conference > (8-11 Nov.) and bring yourself up to date with > contemporary art in extreme envirnments at the > border between art and science. Take part in a > Prague symposium about the exceptional media > theorist, Vilem Flusser (12-13 Nov.). And then > make the short journey to Berlin, where the > re:place 2007 conference (15-18 Nov.) will > feature outstanding interdisciplinary research > and debates about the histories of media, art, > science, and technology. > > http://mutamorphosis.org / > http://www.goethe.de/prag / > http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace > > Flyer download (1.9 MB) for this series at: > > http://mutamorphosis.org/upload/files/2007/07/18/PRAGUEBERLINNOVEMBER2007.pdf > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > Programme re:place 2007 > > check http://tamtam.mi2.hr/replace for updates > > > > *** 13 / 14 / 15 November, pre-conference > workshops and events (to be announced) > > > ****** Thursday 15 November ********************************** > > *** Opening Session > 15 November, Thursday, 14.00-15.00, Auditorium > > Welcome by Andreas Broeckmann (DE), Gunalan > Nadarajan (SG/US), Bernd Scherer/HKW (DE) > > Introductory talk by Oliver Grau (DE/AT): > MediaArtHistory - Image Science - Digital > Humanities > > > *** Panel 1: Place Studies: Art/Science/Engineering > 15 November, Thursday, 15.00-17.30, Auditorium > > Michael Century (CA/US), Encoding motion in the early computer: > knowledge transfers between studio and laboratory > > Stephen Jones (AU): The Confluence of Computing and Fine Arts at the > University of Sydney, 1968-1975 > > Eva Moraga (ES): The Computation Center at Madrid University, > 1966-1973: An example of true interaction between art, science and > technology > > Robin Oppenheimer (US/CA): Network Forums and Trading Zones: How Two > Experimental, Collaborative Art and Engineering Subcultures Spawned > the "9 Evenings: Theatre and Engineering" and E.A.T. > > > *** Panel 2: Intersections of Media and Biology > 15 November, Thursday, 15.00-17.30, Theatersaal > > Assimina Kaniari (GR/UK), Morphogenesis in Action: D'Arcy Thompson > and the experimental in Leonardo from LL Whyte to now > > Jussi Parikka (FI): Insect Media of the Nineteenth Century > > Michele Barker (AU): From Life to Cognition: investigating the role > of biology and neurology in new media arts practice > > Boo Chapple (AU): Sound, Matter, Flesh: A history of crosstalk from > medicine to contemporary art and biology > > > *** Keynote 1/Helmholtz Lecture (speaker t.b.c.) > 15 November, Thursday, 18.30 at Helmholtz-Zentrum, Humboldt University > > > *** Special Lecture Presentation > Timothy Druckrey (US): Cinemedia - Visions of Computation in Cinema > 15 November, Thursday, 21.00 at TESLA Media>Art > > ****** Friday 16 November ********************************** > > *** Panel 3: Histories of Abstraction > 16 November, Friday, 10.00-12.30, Auditorium > > Laura Marks (CA): Artificial life from classical Islamic art to new > media art, via 17th-century Holland > > Arianna Borrelli (IT/DE): The media perspective in the study of > scientific abstraction > > Amir Alexander (US): Death in Paris: When Mathematics became Art > > Paul Thomas (AU): Constructed infinite smallness > > > *** Panel 4: Comparative Histories of Art Institutions > 16 November, Friday, 10.00-12.30, Theatersaal > > moderation: Stephen Kovats (DE/CA) > > Lioudmila Voropai (RU/DE): Institutionalisation of Media Art in the > Post-Soviet Space: The Role of Cultural Policy and Socio-economic > Factors > > Renata Sukaityte (LT): Electronic art in Estonia, Latvia and > Lithuania: the interplay of local, regional and global processes > > Christoph Klütsch (DE): The roots and influences of information > aesthetics in Germany, Canada, US, Brazil and Japan > > Catherine Hamel (CA): Crossing Into The Border - an intersection of > vertical and horizontal migration > > *** Panel 5: Place Studies: Media Art Histories > 16 November, Friday, 14.30-17.00, Auditorium > > Daniel Palmer (AU): Media Art and Its Critics in the Australian Context > > Ryszard W. Kluszczynski (PL): From Media Art to Techno Culture. > Reflections on the Transformation of the Avant-Gardes (the Polish > case) > > Caroline Seck Langill (CA): Corridors of Practice I: Technology and > Performance Art on the North American Pacific Coast in the 1970s and > Early 80s > > Machiko Kusahara (JP): A Turning Point in Japanese Avant-garde Art: 1964 - > 1970 > > *** Panel 6: Media Theory in Cultural Practice > 16 November, Friday, 14.30-17.00, Theatersaal > > Kathryn Farley (US): Generative Systems: The Art and Technology of > Classroom Collaboration > > Nils Röller (DE/CH): Flusser's Individual Academy: Thinking > instruments in institutional and personal relations > > Wendy Hui Kyong Chun (US): The Enduring Ephemeral, or the Future is a > Memory > > Antony Hudek (US/CH), Antonia Wunderlich (DE): Between Tomorrow and > Yesterday: charting Les Immatériaux as technoscientific event > > *** General Discussion > 16 November, Friday, 17.30-18.30, Auditorium > > > *** Keynote 2: Siegfried Zielinski (DE) > 16 November, Friday, 20.00, Auditorium > > > ****** Saturday 17 November ********************************** > > *** Panel 7: Interdisciplinary Theory in Practice > 17 November, Saturday, 10.00-12.30, Auditorium > > moderation: Sara Diamond (CA) > > Christopher Salter (US/CA): Unstable Events: Performative Science, > Materiality and Machinic Practices > > Simone Osthoff (BR/US): Philosophizing in Translation: Vilem > Flusser's Brazilian Writings > > Karl Hansson (SE): Haptic Connections - On Hapticality and the > History of Visual Media > > Janine Marchessault (CA)/ Michael Darroch (CA): Anonymous History as > Methodology: The Collaborations of Sigfried Giedion, Jaqueline > Tyrwhitt, and the Explorations Group (1951-53) > > > *** Panel 8: Place Studies: Russia / Soviet Union > 17 November, Saturday, 10.00-12.30, Theatersaal > > Introduction/Moderation: Inke Arns (DE): The Avant-Garde in the Rear > View Mirror > > Olga Goriunova (RU): Cultural critique of technology in philosophy of > technology and religious philosophy of early XX century Russia > > Margareta Tillberg (SE/DE): Cybernetics and Arts: The Soviet Group > Dvizhenie (Movement) 1962-1972 > > Margarete Voehringer (DE): 'Space, not Stones' Nikolai Ladovski's > Psychotechnical Laboratory for Architecture, Moscow 1926 (t.b.c.) > > Irina Aristarkhova (RU/US): Stepanova's 'Laboratory' > > > *** Panel 9: Cross-Cultural Perspectives > 17 November, Saturday, 14.30-17.00, Auditorium > > moderation: Bernd Scherer (DE) > > Sheila Petty (CA): African Digital Imaginaries > > Cynthia Ward (US): Minding Realities: Geometries of Cultural Cognition > > Erkki Huhtamo (FI/US): Intercultural Interfaces: Correcting the > pro-Western Bias of Media History > > Manosh Chowdhury (Bangladesh/JP): Can there be an 'Art History' in > the South?: Myth of Intertextuality and Subversion in the Age of > > > > *** Panel 10: Cybernetic Histories of Artistic Practices > 17 November, Saturday, 14.30-17.00, Theatersaal > > moderation/introduction: Geoff Cox (UK): Software Art has No History > > Christina Dunbar-Hester (US): Listening to Cybernetics: Music, > Machines, and Nervous Systems, 1950-1980 > > David Link (DE): Memory for Love Letters. Computer Archaeology of a > Very Early Program > > Brian Reffin Smith (UK/DE): Hijack! How the computer was wasted for art > > Kristoffer Gansing (SE): Humans Thinking Like Machines - Incidental > Media Art in the Swedish Welfare State > > > *** General Discussion > 17 November, Friday, 17.30-18.30, Auditorium > > > *** Keynote 2: Lorrain Daston (US/DE) > 17 November, Saturday, 20.00, Auditorium > > > ****** Sunday 18 November ********************************** > > Presentation of Results of the LBI Workshop on Documentation and Metadata > with Dieter Daniels a.o. > 18 November, Sunday, 10.00, Conference Hall 1 > > > Forum on Cyber-Feminism > with Faith Wilding, Irina Aristarkhova, a.o. > 18 November, Sunday, 10.00 > > > Forum Discussion: Connecting Music(ology) and Media Art > Statements by Dr. Joseph Cohen (Collège de > Philosophie, Paris) and Dr. Rolf Grossmann > (Applied Cultural Studies/Aesthetics, Leuphana > University Lüneburg). Discussants include Dr. > Werner Jauk (University of Graz) and Dr. Paul > Modler (Design University Karlsruhe). Moderation > by Joyce Shintani (Design University Karlsruhe). > 18 November, Sunday, 10.00, Conference Hall 3 > > > Feedback Session and planning for re: conference follow-up in 2009 > 18 November, Sunday, 12.00, Auditorium > > ****** POSTERS ********************************** > > (poster exhibition plus short lunchtime presentations) > > Su Ballard (NZ): 'Real Time': early encounters with immersive > installation in Aotearoa New Zealand > > Clarisse Bardiot (FR): The Artists and Engineers of 9 Evenings: > Theatre and Engineering, New York, 1966 > > Ross Bochnek (US): When Clinical Neuropsychology Met Time-Based Art > > Wayne Clements (UK): The Descent of New Media: Art, Warfare and > Cambridge Cybernetics > > Lenka Dolanova (CZ): What They Were Cooking in There: Cooks, Their > Kitchen and the Taste of Fresh Video > > Ernest Edmonds (UK/AU) Human and robot behaviour: art meets AI > > Francis Arsene Fogue Kuate (Cameroon): The contribution of technical > centres to the development of Media Art in Africa: A case study of > the Audiovisual Professional Training Centre of Ekounou (Yaounde) > > Francesca Franco (IT/UK): New Media Art and an Institutional Crisis > in the History of the Venice Biennale, 1968 > > Darko Fritz (HR/NL): Vladimir Bonacic: Dynamic Objects (1968-1971) - > computer-generated works made in Zagreb within New Tendencies art > network (1961-1973) > > Yara Guasque (BR), Sandra Albuquerque Reis Fachinello (BR), Silvia > Guadagnini (BR): Skipping stages. From constructivism in architecture > and in poetry to the digital media: searching for parameters to > understand the emerging media and the formation of a specialized > audience in Brazil > > Rosana Horio Monteiro (BR): Art and Science Playing on the Margins. > On the discovery of photography in the 19th century Brazil > > Karen Ingham (UK): A Ticket to The Theatre of The Dead > > Maude Ligier (FR): How cybernetics entered the world of art? The case > of Nicolas Schöffer > > David McConville (US): Cosmological Cinema: Pedagogy, Propaganda, and > Perturbation in Early Dome Theaters > > Vytautas Michelkevicius (LT): (Post)photography and Media Art: > Rethinking Institutionalization and Public Curatorship in Lithuania > > Simon Mills (UK): framed: interviews with new media writers and artists > > Angela Ndalianis (AU), Lisa Beaven (AU), Saige Walton (AU): > Technologies of Wonder - a Pansemiotic Approach > > Ariane Noel de Tilly (CA): The different 'versions' of John Massey's > As the Hammer Strikes (A Partial Illustration) > > Ryan Pierson (US): Thinking Space: Mediating IBM's Deep Blue in the > History of Computers > > Markku Reunanen (FI): Observations on the Adoption of Science in a > Subculture > > Nina Samuel (DE/CH): Re-Reading Fractals: Towards an Archeology of > > > Roberto Simanowski (DE/US): The Art of Mapping Data: Statistics, > Naturalism, and Transformation > > Stefan Sonvilla-Weiss (AT/FI): Paul Otlet's impact on visual > knowledge building in current developments of Web 2.0 > > Melanie Swalwell (NZ): Early Digital Games Production in New Zealand > > Carolyn Tennant (US), Kathy High (US): The Experimental Television Center > > Claudia X. Valdes (CL/US), Phillip Thurtle (US): From Spiderman to > Alba: transgenics in a post-nuclear world > > Simon Werrett (US): The Festive Formation of the City: The Art and > Science of Urban Space in the late Soviet Union > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Wendy Jo Coones, M.Ed. > Department for Image Science > DANUBE UNIVERSITY > Dr.-Karl-Dorrek-Straße 30 > 3500 Krems, AUSTRIA > www.mediaarthistories.org > "WHAT IS IMAGE SCIENCE?" visit us and find out :: www.donau-uni.ac.at/dis > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22 > ******************************************* > From apnawritings at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 13 13:31:45 2007 From: apnawritings at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:01:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Personalism, Helping & Hegel in the colonial Night: IF post 6 Message-ID: <998983.7376.qm@web8507.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Readers, While I’m happy to get on with one of my favourite topics at the SARAI list : censorship and persecution in the wake of Shuddhabrata’s comments on the attack on Taslima Nasreen at Hyderabad, I felt I’ll just put up my monthly Independent fellowship posting so that I can walk with the brewing debate better. Now, as you’ll remember I had proposed in my previous posting, subsequent to having pursued the history and theory of the personal, that I’ll start deploying the paradigm I’ve recovered in lineaments. From this posting onwards I get on with that. The urban theme will intrude in right time. The founding aim of this current posting is to deploy the personalist matrix by which the transition from old age charities may be compared to the new forms of helping in modernity—colonial modernity in particular. This is done through re-invoking, subsequent to recovering a grand theorist of such a change -Hegel—a long forgotten 19th century Bengali Neo-Hegelian ( Brajendranath Seal)—who had wanted to adopt this transition to modernity ( from the “principle of personality” to the “principle of organization” or from the particular to the universal) through his interpretive reading of the first modernizer of India: Rammohan Roy. The fate of this reading through successive inheritance articulates the fate of civil society in 19th century colonial Bengal. A thematic abstract of the above could be this : If classical helping acts were a matter of religious merit or personal virtue; optional and incidental benevolence, then Hegel (as a forgotten theorist of helping)- having anticipated this and in order to normalize this threat ( of “arbitrariness,” “contingency” and “deception” ) innate in unorganized personal acts of helping, had offered the solution of state related ‘objective’, ‘intelligent’ helping in the form of public assistance or welfare in civil society. This posting explores how the indeterminate, whimsical and thus in a sense transcendent status of the particularistic personal vis-à-vis personality haunts and in a way subverts the founding of this public, determinate and institutionally rational “universal” welfare schemes symptomatic of civil society ----which when transferred to the colonies, was also synonymous with the colonizeds’ internal project of arriving at modernity. The texts of Brajen Seal, Keshab Sen perform here the roles of theoretical samples. Here is the text now. ________ WELFARE, PERSONALISM AND HEGEL IN THE COLONIAL NIGHT : THE FORGOTTEN READINGS OF BRAJENDRANATH SEAL OR PERSONAL/UNIVERSAL, HELPING AND THE FATE OF CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE COLONY : THE FORGOTTEN READINGS OF HEGEL AND BRAJENDRANATH SEAL ARNAB CHATTERJEE ________________________ Introduction In a lecture delivered in 1936 Benoy Kumar Sarkar – a pioneering Indian sociologist and social historian with considerable mastery over German language and German social philosophy was comparing Hitler Germany’s system of Winter Help and the Indian practice of daridra seva or care for the poor. While Winter Help was an occasion -- on which --to help their suffering poor masses, “Germans would spend during the six months of winter (October to March) nearly 37 crores – in Indian currency,”[1] Sarkar was aware that Daridra seva ( seva has its strongest original lineage in Vaishnavism of medieval Bengal ) was repopularised in the 19th century by Swami Vivekananda—the founder member of Ramakrishna Mission and famous for his so called American conquests [2]. Sarkar in his lecture wanted to propose a modernist departure for such a project. To begin with, Sarkar illuminatingly and provokingly traced the origins of Vivekananda’s ‘service to the poor is service to God’ dictum to that of ( another German) Fichte’s formulation in which the slave appears as a personification of the Holy Ghost [3]. This striking and disturbing comparison apart, one of Sarkar’s agenda was ofcourse critical. While invoking Fichte and elsewhere locating Vivekananda’s message as complicit with the emergence of the person and individualism in modernity, here Sarkar was clearly dismissing daridra seva as being based on an old model of care or charity [4] for the poor. For Sarkar social insurance ( ‘samaj bima’), grants for the unemployed (‘bekar bima’), tax based poor relief [5] ( ‘daridrya-kar’) were the methodologically driven modern (the latter having undergone a revival) versions of a transformed and enlightened helping ( we shall explore why and how, long before Sarkar, Hegel had termed this ‘intelligent’ helping). Now one of the strong reasons why Sarkar thought that this model had become defunct - was based –this time—on a French comparison. Quoting Ferdinand Tonnies, Sarkar dubbed giving of alms (‘mustibhikka’) as an expression of community or Gemeinschaft through ‘atmiyata’ (kinship), ‘sahajogita’ ( cooperation) and not (civil) society [6] or Gesellschaft. Now why Sarkar thought so is crucial : his argument was, in the giving of alms, there exists between the donor and the recipient an immediate (‘sakshat’) and in a sense personal (‘byaktigoto’) relationship; but, in State organized helping endeavours, what is evident is an impersonal procedure marked by a (quasi-commercial) ‘regimentation regarding transaction of goods’, a ‘centralized’ rational effort( ‘juktijog’) moved by the force of an ‘associational collective’[7]. The historical catch seems to lie here ! By plotting the personal and the filial as against the public and the rational, it is evident that Sarkar was referring to the arrangements that have been subsumed today under the rubric of civil society with the phenomenon being now predicated as ‘welfare’. Sarkar thought that in a capitalist society the former has exhausted itself and is absolutely anachronistic unless it is absorbed by civil social forms of institutionalized public helping. Infact he also tends to find a middle way by suggesting that in the manner of Nazi Germany’s Winter help project, social organizations and institutions in Bengal such as the Ramakrishna Mission, the Indian Congress, Corporation, Municipality, Bangiya Sankat Tran Samiti inorder to arrive at ‘modernity’ (“adhunikta”) need to deploy such methods of helping where voluntarism ( in the form of voluntary donation) meets centralized procedural, public rationality[8]. As we shall find what Sarkar in 1936 was proposing-- in fact was the paradigmatic proposal of modernity itself and was first, to my mind, articulated by Hegel. Surprisingly, in 19th century colonial Bengal—as we shall see—the tensions of this thematic schism in the realm of helping was energetically articulated in the domain of ‘reform.’ By launching an internal attempt to reform practices through voluntary associations and related agenda, the end product was nothing but modernity through civil society in the colony. We need to state this in terms set by a grand theorist of civil society--Hegel : Personal being dubbed as particular and deceptive, Hegel had proposed the universal in order to aid us to arrive at a determinate transparency. This hunt for the universal assumed strange but understandable forms in the colonies. The success or failure of colonial modernity largely depended on this—the deployment of the universal through civil social institutions and activities. Sarkar is revoking the proposal in 1936 in quite a similar way in order to arrive at modernity. The arrival then must have been deferred. The question is, what transpired in between? Where is the account of the episodic rivalry between personal-individual and public- institutional forms of helping? What is at stake in the case of a wronged or a right, successful or failed transition? The founding aim of this article is to propose a conceptual matrix [9] by which answers to these questions may be found and the transition from old age charities may be compared to the new forms of helping in modernity—colonial modernity in particular. If the proposal was that the personal had had to be purged in order to give way to the universal; then in this paper I investigate how the indeterminate, whimsical and thus in a sense transcendent status of the personal vis-à-vis personality haunts, threatens and in a way subverts the founding of public and determinately rational welfare schemes. This is done through re-invoking subsequent to Hegel, a long forgotten 19th century Bengali Neo-Hegelian of colonial Bengal—and reinscribing the vagaries of his interpretive reading of the first modernizer of India: Rammohan Roy. Having prefaced our work thus, now we are perhaps ready to chart the route the paper will take: I. The paper in its first part examines Hegel’s proposal (Hegel – being the first philosopher of modernity and as pointed out a major theorist of ‘welfare’ through civil society) to institute civil society through “intelligent” forms of public helping by appreciating the universal aspects of poverty - and proposing the mediating institutions of civil society to order this transition. It elaborates on how the modern civil society was constructed to control or normalize that threat of arbitrariness and contingency instanced in personal acts of whimsical giving. Hegel’s discussion of welfare, charity etc. in civil society is briefly summarized and studied as a classic case. Civil society in the colonies form the next part. II (a). In the second part the fate of such a hunt for the universal in 19the century Bengal is examined through the texts of a Bengali Neo-Hegelian Brajendranath Seal. I tediously follow Brajen Seal’s reading of Rammohan Roy and his discourse of “theo-philanthropic” reform to show how, in colonial modernity, the construction of civil society through voluntary association ( valorizing ‘institution’ over ‘personality’) receives an unexpected twist in the wake of Keshab Sen’s astounding reading ( when played against Seal’s longer reading ) of the multipersonal universalism of Rammohan. II(b): Section II (b) charts if this hunt for the universal foundered even with the promising inheritance of Rammohan’s disciple Keshab Chandra Sen and in the wake-- why a project of reconciliation between the personal and the universal ultimately failed thus sealing in the process the fate of civil society in the colony. III. But does this failure still breed modernity? Is our paradigmatic grid able to interpret the state of helping in our own times? This paper—in its conclusion evaluates these questions from the premise of failure itself. (I) The ghost of “arbitrariness” and “contingency” in personal charity: civil society in Hegel Taking cue from the introduction, we may start by saying that the genealogy of the modernist turn in helping may be briefly and brutally put in one line : what was helping according to personal or religious virtue or duty in the past became a matter of a secular ethic of social assistance and welfare right in modernity. The unruly daan or charity was transformed with the disciplinary techne of Social work to a public activity leading to the institutionalization of professional techniques of care on the one hand ( Social Work), on the other an increasing governmentalization of helping services. But why was this public mediation of the state wanted? Who charted this first? How was this done? The paradox is , with the theorist of governmentality ( Foucault [10] ) or in the pioneering welfare sociology of T. H Marshall [11] or Partha Chatterjee’s brilliant revisionist notion of new political society (where a reference to both Foucault and Marshall is available [12] ) what is forgotten is the fact that it was Hegel in whose hands this transformation was first charted ( this forgetting has been so deepseated that there is not a single book on welfare, helping and Hegel despite the voluminous Hegel scholarship; no history of social work mentions Hegel). And this transformation, as pointed out before, is absolutely coeval and crucial for the institutionalization of civil society and modernity in the colony. To examine the fate of this Hegelian project ( subsequent to its recovery) in the colony is our present task but that would not be possible unless we allow the past to begin. To resume then, with the modernist turn in helping practices, what is propagated finally is, a kind of social virtue and not personal character based practice of private virtue[13]. To follow Hegel, hitherto we have had “personal character” and the “conscience of individuals—their particular will and mode of action” [14] ; modes of helping were marked by “the litany of private virtues—modesty, humility, philanthropy and forbearance [15]” Social virtue in Hegel, based on a kind of universality -bearing strong Kantian strains, recognizes the objective character of actions and wants - while not being founded on “what the agent holds to be right or wrong, good and evil” [16]. Not founded because, in such a state “helping” might just assume “unintelligent” forms, “deception” is a daily occurrence here( these are all Hegel’s phrases to which we’ll return later in detail), which is marked by this non-distinction of particularity and universality: anybody wearing the mask of universality gives us a semblance of rights and we think we are getting our due and end up being cheated. This paradox generated the huge debate on who should be the right recipients of charity. Similarly in India one finds a vast literature on who has the sanctioned competence to make charitable gifts. The modernist turn in helping tries to standardize this debate according to objective, generalisable yardsticks. Welfare of others then requires a systematic treatment than just a parochial one; but Hegel, to seek a rationale for this transition, will consider first the moment when we are interested in advancing our own interests ‘regardless’ of others, where the arbitrariness and unpredictable unrest of our daily life asks to be tempered. We have arrived at Hegel and his discussion of civil society. Civil society as we know in Hegel appears between the family and the state. It includes the economic community in which citizens fulfill their wants or needs, the administration of justice and finally the police and corporation. Outside of the family and the state the individuals appear as independent persons pursuing their own selfish-private interests while trying to use others as means. In the process of pursuing private ends, inadvertently common ends are also accomplished. This is the received definition of civil society in Hegel. We are interested in a different strand of this discourse. Civil society in Hegel appears as a realm where while trying to accomplish particular interests, universal ends are accomplished. Two points to note here: firstly, all particular ends require the compulsory presence of other people to be used as means; secondly, all people end up, though involuntarily, serving the whole community. But civil society being the site where private individuals pursue private ends, the threat of caprice lies open-- “due to the variability of the wants themselves, in which opinion and subjective good- pleasure play a great part. It results also from circumstances of locality, from errors and deceptions which can be foisted upon single members of the social circulation and are capable of creating disorder in it” [17]. Civil society tries to temper this “threat” in a manner of its own. Given that, Hegel argues, “ since particularity is tied to the condition of universality, the whole [ of civil society] is the sphere of mediation in which all individual characteristics, all aptitudes, and all accidents of birth and fortune are liberated” [18] . Thus begins the drama where Hegel seems to have been theorizing civil society as something that normalizes or controls arbitrariness or contingency that pervades our everyday life beginning with the site that is the family. The discussion is available in his The Philosophy of Subjective Spirit where Hegel somewhat categorically ( very unlike of him) charts this suspicion. In his view contingency resides with “individual subjects” or singular souls : “Its mode of being is the special temperament, talent, character, physiognomy and other dispositions and idiosyncrasies[19], it is in this soul that the sphere of contingency is initiated. Individual souls are distinguished from one another by an endless multitude of contingent modifications” [20]. The discussion becomes more effective and illuminating when Hegel comes to the education of children. We are of the view that that teaching is best which brings out the individuality of the child. To Hegel this is a clear mistake. The teacher “has not the time to do so” [21]. Further, it is not necessary too. “The peculiarity of children is tolerated in the family circle” [22] Hegel’s conclusion is definitive, “The more educated a person is, the less will his behavior exhibit anything contingent and simply peculiar to him” [23]. Transferring the potential of this insight to charity in relation to the discourse of enlightenment, we find that this is in absolute concurrence with Rousseau’s observation on Emile’s education. There charity is a pedagogic virtue without which Emile’s education will remain imperfect. In response to the principle of “active benevolence” Rousseau is referring to “ an education whose principles engender charity” [24]. Charity as a pedagogic virtue and not a religious one imbibes the hunger for the universal which is so peculiar to the Hegelian view of education in schools. Education “irons out” particularities, and therefore the kind of charity that grows out of this leveling also, expectedly, is not anything that will be disorganized, unsystematic and reflective of peculiarities of people. As we’ve noted before –this is symptomatic of the modern, secular view of helping. We have been trying to bring out how one of the registers of civil society—education becomes in Hegel a method to restrain the “ accidental subjectivities” and sympathies that personalities of people imply. Briefly put, through education a student will be able to recognize “ the universal aspect of the object” [25]. But what about those who will be unable for various reasons to secure education? Directly related to the discourse of helping, this is the second register of an interesting aspect of civil society in Hegel. Hegel anticipates, and rightly so, that the blind play of private interests in the economic community in civil society may push many to the state of degrading poverty. However, other factors are also there. Here is Hegel: “ Not only arbitrariness, however, but also contingent physical factors and circumstances based on external conditions may reduce individuals to poverty. In this condition, they are left with the needs of civil society and yet since society has at the same time taken from them the natural means of acquisition, they are more or less deprived of all the advantages of society, such as the ability to acquire skills and education in general, as well as of the administration of justice, health care, and often even of the consolation of religion” [26] And what do “their predicament and sense of wrong” [27] give rise to? It seems Hegel reproduces the historical consensus on the matter, “ Laziness, viciousness and other vices” [28]. These in fact what Hegel thinks are the “subjective aspects of poverty” [29] -- where poverty induces peculiarities in individual subjects. And this requires-derivatively------ “subjective help, both with regard to the particular circumstances and with regard to emotion and love. This is a situation in which, notwithstanding all universal arrangements, morality finds plenty to do” [30]. What Hegel is referring to by the name of subjective help is the aspect of sentimental, optional benevolence or private charity led by personal idiosyncrasies. But the Hegelian civil society cannot approve of this and Hegel admits that: firstly because of the fact that “livelihood of the needy would be ensured without the mediation of work” which by being simply dependent on others will violate the principle of civil society where all are self-regarding persons and— therefore, justly, the burden of poverty has to be borne by poor people themselves; secondly, it is a violation of the self respect or the dignity of the poor person [31]. Therefore, in consonance with the primary proposal Hegel appropriately declares, “But since this help, both in itself and in its effects, is dependent on contingency, society endeavors to make it less necessary by identifying the universal aspects of want and taking steps to remedy them” [32]. Throw in here the fact that Hegel, in this context, goes so far as to say-- that when I—being guided by my personal idiosyncrasies or “out of love” give something to somebody and not to the more deserving ones or without inviting the universal to “have a share in the action”, I “cheat the universal out of its right” [33] Thereby what Hegel does is to introduce the concept of objective help which having discovered the universal aspects of want institutes public modes of addressing the same: to reckon with the universal aspect of want is to replace the poor by the problem of poverty. In brief, Hegel is keen to arrive at, following the formal character of his concept of civil society, some principle of helping which will not be contingent, arbitrary and subjective. What are they ? They are a series of examples catalogued by Hegel : “ public poorhouses, hospitals, street lighting etc.” But Hegel does not rule out the functions of contingent helping as well—and this is important. “Charity still retains enough scope for action,” but --- “it is mistaken if it seeks to restrict the alleviation of want to the particularity of emotion and the contingency of its own disposition and knowledge, and if it feels injured and offended by universal rulings and precepts of an obligatory kind. On the contrary, public conditions should be regarded as all the more perfect the less there is left for the individual to do by himself in the light of his own particular opinion ( as compared with what is arranged in a universal manner)” [34] . So Hegel’s model of helping in civil society is inspired by a kind of public mediation of wants, but the term that he uses for this kind of help is, “ intelligent.” In this last part therefore, using this description of intelligence, let us try to delineate finally the Hegelian mode of civil society. What Hegel disapproves is the kind of “unintelligent love” that is characteristic of singular, contingent acts of incidental charity. And here to describe the intelligent mode of helping, Hegel connects it albeit for the first time with the state : “Intelligent, substantial beneficence is, however, in its richest and most important form the intelligent universal action of the state—an action compared with which the action of a single individual as an individual, is so insignificant that it is hardly worth talking about” [36]. But this rhetoric of disapproval, we must note, had not gained such energy before, because here what Hegel is interrogating is not merely the arbitrary, contingent nature of personal helping, but the sheer existence of such helping through these strong words not uttered ever before; the first part we know, but we shall attend most to the second part: “The only significance left for beneficence, which is a sentiment, is that of an action which is quite single and isolated which is as contingent as it is transitory. Chance determines not only the occasion of the action but also whether it is a ‘work’ at all, whether it is not immediately undone and even perverted into something bad. Thus this acting for the good of others which is said to be necessary, is of such kind that it may, or may not, exist.” We are ofcourse aware of the solution offered by Hegel and need not rehearse it here. But what might be asked is, that irrespective of the risk of repetition of the first part, what is so new about this passage with which it became incumbent upon us to end this section? Let us offer this as the working summary of Section I. We’ve been trying to trace how the secular modernist mode of helping inscribed within the restlessness of everyday spirit tries to normalize and temper the arbitrariness and contingency of personal acts of charity through the mediating institutions of civil society. We made a case study of Hegel, where Hegel’s proposal is, through State related, public forms of intelligent helping, singular, isolated and illusory modes of personal modes of helping may become redundant or play a supplementary role—at the most. But it can play a supplementary role only when it has a minimum of positivity granted to it, that is, if it is not an entity (or in Aristotelian terms –a substance) at all, or if it does not therefore have a bare existence, how can it play even a supplementary role? This suspicion emerges strongly with the last paragraph quoted above where Hegel is disputing the status of personal mode of helping as a work at all- because of its illusory nature and the possibility of perversion-- in short --of deception. With this, we’ve returned to the point with which we had begun. Deception and the perverted will of the giver. Through recommendations of intelligent, public modes of helping what Hegel is trying to do then —apart from normalizing the threat of arbitrariness and contingency, is to introduce some kind of moral world view—which also, as we know, forms the cornerstone of modernity. Hegel is then hunting the universal in civil society and trying to give a kind of fixity to helping processes in civil society so that people are not deceived, the universal is not cheated and that good works are works and they are good too. Summarily and brutally put Hegel is trying to depart from the risky terrain of a virtuous theory of personal giving to an impersonal, institutional way of public assistance. We shall examine in the next Section what fate this search finally assumes at the site where civil society, while looking for consumers when “production exceeds the needs of consumers” [37], has to “ to go beyond its own confines” or is “historically driven to establish colonies” [38]. The next Section may therefore bear the subtitle: the fate of civil society in the colonies. II. A. The “multipersonal” universalism of Rammohan Roy or The first fate of civil society in the colony Though in the penultimate lines of the last Section I’ve quoted Hegel as saying how civil society is historically driven to establish colonies, I’ve stopped short of saying that this also inaugurates—and we know it does-- the postcolonial critique of Hegel. The synopsis of that critique is – in the language of Spivak, Hegel is a strong moment in the “ epistemic graphing of imperialism” [39] Apart from Gayatri Spivak, Ranajit Guha [40] and Dipesh Chakraborty [41] have approved of such a critique in their works. Now, it would not be correct to or even it is perhaps not possible to engage with Hegel in the colonies without referring to the above critique; but as it will be shown, I’ll not require this critique at all. Not, because I think this critique, by and large, is misplaced. This misplacement emerges handy because its authors consider Hegel without his system [42]. But the point is not whether Hegel belongs to this or that kind of historiography. If there is any thing that Hegel belongs to, it would be a philosophical history which some including Hegel have observed as a kind of apriori history i.e., Hegel is said to have provided the transcendental conditions by which the experience of history or us experiencing history becomes possible. Following Gilian Rose, the historical apriori is the precondition of the possibility of actual histoical facts or values; “it is an apriori, that is, not empirical, for it is the basis of the possibility of experience” [43]. This experience is not dependent on the empirical realities of factual history because the latter kind of material history itself draws its categories or becomes possible by such already present forms. For instance we would not be able to make sense of anything called social facts if we did not presuppose the concept of society; similarly historical facts are nothing without the [apriori] concept of history. “It cannot be a fact, because it is the precondition of” [historical] “facts and hence cannot be one of them: it is a ‘transcendent objectivity [44] .’’ Hegel is, infact, categorical on this: “ the philosophy of history is nothing more than the application of thought to history” [45]. This thought in Hegel is the self-activity of the concept which is independent of empirical data :“ Philosophy, is credited with independent thoughts produced by pure speculation, without reference to actuality [and]..forces it [ i.e., the latter] to conform to its preconceived notions and constructs a history a priori” [46]. That endorses the perceptive remark made by William Stace that civil society is a logical derivation and not a historical derivation in Hegel[47] . And the justification of such a logical derivation, Hegel is very clear on this, cannot “ come from the world of experience.” Because- “what philosophy understands by conceptual thinking is something quite different; in this case, comprehension is the activity of the concept itself, and not a conflict between a material and a form of separate origin. An alliance of disparates such as is found in pragmatic history is not sufficient for the purposes of conceptual thinking as practiced in philosophy; for the latter derives its content and material essentially from within itself. In this respect, therefore, despite the alleged links between the two. The original dichotomy remains: the historical event stands opposed to the independent concept” [48]. Therefore Hegel—given his project—should be judged for the correctness of the philosophical journey that he traces for autonomous concepts rather than being faulted for various cultural and ideological, anthropological reasons; we are perhaps forgetting his own objections made against such trials. The postcolonials have made Hegel –unlike Marx and for all the wrong reasons, stand on his head “requiring identity of the non-identical. Historic contingency and the concept are the more mercilessly antagonistic the more solidly they are entwined [49]. I think this last reprimand from Adorno forecloses the postcolonial critique [50] which prides itself by placing Hegel on the imperial theatre. Situate against this the colonial reading of Hegel : Brajendranath Seal and Hiralal Haldar. All of the postcolonial maneuvers were anticipated and included in their writings with better theoretical correctness. But, who now reads Brajendranath Seal? And moreover who now reads Hiralal Haldar? That there were these 19th century scholars in Bengal who had wanted to “correct” Hegel [51] in those strong, sunlit days of Hegelianism or had argued with an original Neo-Hegelian philosopher (J.E. Mactaggart) over the correct interpretation of the absolute [52] is absolutely forgotten now. Forgotten –yes, but strangely. If these weak days are marked by a certain post: postcolonial-postmodern or whatever, it cannot be denied that what we are debating or contemplating is modernity. Then let us point out that Brajendranath Seal has—besides elaborations and formulations, explicit observations to make on modernity, literary modernism and similar other things. In the 19th century, it was Seal ( and I think he was the only one in that ) who had defined modernity as the criticism [53] of social life or the discovery of the individual with a single scheme of life. And a hundred years after, Charles Taylor in his classic contemporary study [54] would extend such theses and establish them beyond doubt. But the despair remains. So far as the theoretical discussion of modernity is concerned, I think Bankimchandra Chatterjee is definitely interesting, but Brajen Seal or more than him--Hiralal Haldar is rigorous. But to debunk the postcolonial readings of Hegel through his colonial readings is, for the present occasion, not central. It is rather to reiterate what we had told in the beginning of this Section: to engage with Hegel or Hegelese in the colony—we may justifiably ( for reasons elaborated above) bypass the postcolonial critique of Hegel. Let us return—with this knowledge-- to Hegel and the philosophical fate of civil society in the colony—where we had left ourselves in Section I. Now, if deception is one moment that Hegel wants to encounter through the formal equality gained in the advocacy of public assistance and corporations, isn’t it co-incidental that Brajendranath Seal while writing a treatise on Raja Rammohan Roy—the alleged ‘father’ of modern India and meditating on his inner history, writes how Roy-“divides mankind, in Voltaire’s (and Volney’s) [55] fashion, into four classes—those who deceive, those who are deceived, those who both deceive and are deceived, and those who are neither deceivers, nor deceived” [56]. If we link this with the Hegelian argument on civil society then we shall be examining how the principle of deception instituted through the haze of multiple particularities and personal idiosyncrasies, gets normalized or controlled through what Seal calls a “principle of organization” [57]. Seal—who thinks this element of deception is more psychological than historical [58], is seeking in Roy not personal principles but a “principle of organization” to emerge in civil society. ( Whether this could be called a principle of reform is another debate.) And it emerges from his argument that the later Rammohan ( more organizationally inclined) perhaps for this reason holds Seal’s interest longer, “In later life he more and more directed his studies from doctrines to institutions, and his efforts from Polemics to Reform.” Thereafter having begun with a “comparative study of religions” he ended up making—a “ comparative study of social institutions” [59]. But what is ironical and interesting as well is a common theme running through the large literature on Rammohan Roy is the study of the personality of Rammohan Roy in terms of virtues or character. (Even in Seal Rammohan appears first with his inner history and then in terms of external social history.) Here is William Adam lecturing at “Boston, U.S.A. in 1845”--“Philanthropy is a Christian virtue not found in Asia where Raja adopts it with exceptional skills and virtue of personal conduct, and then “gave a character to age and country” [60]. Now if this argument is accepted then it has implications for our future argument. We know from our extensive discussion of Hegel’s civil society that from a personal virtuous theory of philanthropy in civil society and in order to forego its subjective deceptive consequences, Hegel was proposing an objective, “intelligent”, structural theory of public assistance. Seal by proposing a “principle of organization” for Rammohan is going in the same direction—but only apparently; the tale will be told—much against their intentions through the narrative registers rejecting which civil society emerges. Curiously enough this virtuous reading of Rammohan’s persona will elicit an interesting debate and the debate will also take an interesting turn with Keshab Sen entering the frame. Let us get on with that. We have talked about the discussion of personality that is a running theme in the discourses on Rammohan. And in such discussions what is endlessly repeated is the diverse, pluralistic nature of Rammohan’s personality and as per a virtuous theory it is held that Rammohan simply transferred these virtues to the social field. But even then a problem persists and this I’ll argue is crucial. Seal, “ As I have said elsewhere, Raja Rammohun Roy was a Brahmin of Brahmins. He was also Mahomedan with Mahomedans, and a Christian with Christians. He could thus combine in his personal religion the fundamentals of Hindu, Christian and Islamic experiences. In this way he was, strange to say, multipersonal. But behind all these masks [61] there was yet another Rammohun Roy, the humanist, pure and simple, watching the procession of Universal Humanity in Universal History” [62] . And the problem of wearing “so many masks, personae, on the public stage in bewildering succession” [63] was evident : “After his death, Moslems claimed him for Islam, and Christians for Christianity. But still others are puzzled. Was he all things to all men?” [64]. Now being all things to all men is the realm of deceptive particularity. Seal’s mask argument pejoratively revokes the complaint—if he was all things to all men, what was he? How did he have a personality? How his work, to use Hegel, was truly work or good? Seal’s answer is equivocal, “And yet in playing so many parts he kept his personality intact and integral”[65]. How ? “ These historic cults and cultures had been fused in one discipline of Universal Humanity in his soul. But the centre of centres in himself was beyond them all. He thus showed how universal Humanity in future may realise in individual synthesis of life ”[66]. So in Seal the answer finally is—the multipersonal universality of Rammohan ultimately meshed to produce an individual synthesis of life or what Seal elsewhere terms an individual with a scheme of life. Where is the principle of an impersonal organization—so very crucial to the founding of an active civil society - that Seal had proposed earlier? Instead, as our detour shows, it is the principle of personality or personal principles that mas-querade as the real principles. In institutions they are just externalized or all institutions are just internal—in this sense. This becomes evident when Seal appears onto the discussion of Brahmo Samaj. Seal says, “ The Raja’s social model, the Brahmo Samaj was but a faint external replica of the universalism he had raised in his own person ”[67] . Nothing could be more explicit a statement and nothing could be more telling about the failure of the principle of organization that was destined to found civil society in the colonies where the ills of the old society was to be purged to arrive at modernity. And the first ill would have been, as per Hegel too, the transitory, contingent character of personal benevolence even if that dawns the mask of “multipersonal universalism.” And in the face of this failure, Seal’s other compensatory exhortations that Rammohan was a believer in “ natural rights of man” or that he spoke “oftener in terms of happiness than of rights, ‘common good’ over ‘contract’” [68] does not help him recover from the thematic failure of his project. But Keshab Chandra Sen’s arrival at the scene to answer the same question gives an interesting direction to the impasse—though it cannot solve it. Infact Sen’s answer is more conducive to Seal’s initial hypothesis which is also the hypothesis of civil society. The question as we know was pretty simple and Keshab Sen knew it: According to Sen, the Raja’s “ruling idea” of mind was that in trying to promote “the universal worship of the One Supreme Creator” he had become “ a member of no church and yet of all churches” [69]. Now, to answer this problem Sen gave altogether a different twist to the debate. He did not, unlike Seal, explore the “inner history” or the universal content of religions personified in the Raja, rather he believed, “The trust Deed of the Samaj premises contains, we believe, the clearest exposition of his idea and will, it is hoped, if duly appreciated, settle all contested points regarding that illustrious man’s religious convictions. It provides that : “The said messuage or building, land, tenements, hereditaments and premises with their appurtenances should be used, occupied, enjoyed, applied and appropriated as, and for, a place of public meeting of all sorts and descriptions of people without distinction ”[70] ,[and with a tendency to ] “the promotion of charity, morality, piety, benevolence, virtue and the strengthening the bonds of union between men of all religions persuasions and creeds” [71] Now, what is the advantage of Keshab Sen’s interpretation over Seal’s ? How would it be charted against the problem of activating a civil society in the colonies? How would it solve the contingent particularity of personal and private helping, philanthropy, charity which haunts even such a philosopher as Hegel? I think in Seal we’ve had a virtue based personalism and institutions emerge from that only. Seal does not, in an attempt to solve the debate on positions of Rammohan take recourse to an intensive analysis of relevant organizations, rather, he assumes, that they may be solved by an analysis of the inner history or psychological principles, in short , the personality of the Raja himself. Keshab Sen, in order to resolve the dispute over taking positions in social life by a personality (Rammohan), does not engage with the internal ideological riddles and ripples growing and dissolving in the internal psyche of the personality. He instead is taking recourse to the trust Deed of an institution which he thinks “will settle all contested points.” The institution will prove the personality. With this we’ve arrived at the “principle of organization” originally promised by Seal and which is outside the arbitrary principle of personalities and personal choices. With this also—so far as helping etc. are concerned it is the institutional realm that will be decisive [72] . Now if we want to link our present formulation to the last Section we observe that Hegel had proposed a kind of helping that would override the transitory, contingent and arbitrary character of personal and private charity. State related public assistance was Hegel’s solution which he thought recognized the universal, objective character of wants and poverty. But civil society—driven by its “inner dialectic” to go for colonies provides an interesting and complicated story in the colonies. We engaged with the career of the ‘father’ of ‘modern’ India –Rammohan and saw-- he –as per the interpretation of Seal and a host of others--sought to appropriate this “universal” in the contingent, virtuous particularities of his personality. The trajectory here is, from personality to organization. This is in absolute violation of the principle of civil society ( and thus modernity) classically conceived by Hegel. With Keshab Chandra Sen’s interpretation of the deceptive “multipersonal universalism” of Rammohan, the impersonal institutional principle is somewhat restored. (B). Keshab Chandra Sen and and the boomerang of the “institutional” Principle Or The second fate of civil society in the colony The institutional principle in contradistinction to the personality principle is restored, yes-- but with what consequence ? Though the institutional interpretation of Keshab Sen has been endorsed above as auguring well with the principles of civil society, I’ve resisted the temptation to show how even this falls a victim to the personal and secondly, how even through this failure it provides a model to think beyond the limits of public/ private divide. The second proposal is beyond the stated intentions of the paper, but for the first—it is incumbent upon us to be informed on the fate of the so called institutional interpretation of Keshab Sen. Now I shall address the failure of this promise as consequential upon the final fate of civil society in the colony. Again, to reiterate, what Sen had proposed is, irrespective of the vagaries, contradictions of one’s personal character, we need to look forward to the personality of the organization from which the personality of the person may be inferred. But Keshab Sen stopped short of the dangerous possibilities of such an interpretation. The institution might embody a separate personality –a personality of its own—which stands apart from its members—even apart from its founder. (This is close ( but not quite) to granting it the ( now available) [73] status of juristic personality or personality embodied in institutions and sanctioned by law ( legal personality)—which becomes real through trust deed, legal oath, undertaking or activity.) And when after Rammohan a split became imminent over old/young rivalry in Brahmo Samaj, this truth that institutions have personalities of their own assumed body. The irony of this was, no amount of “multipersonal universalism” was universal enough to grasp and contain all the members irrespective of age, creed, caste etc though the trust Deed had declared so. The cases are interesting in themselves and merit some engagement. The first split occurred when the young Brahmos asked their elders--in the form of reckoning with the universal content of religions and sought the removal of old sacred thread bearing key brahmo members alleging them of practicing ritual Hindu idolatry. Here, the manner in which the original or adi Samajis’ reacted is well placed: they said, “A so called universal form would make our religion appear grotesque and ridiculous to the nation” [74]; it was again the universal put in debate. They appealed to allow ‘liberty of personal conscience’ to the Brahmos who allegedly carried vestiges of Hindu customs. Interestingly, this ‘liberty of personal conscience’ which Keshab had denied the old Brahmos, would be tragically invoked later by Keshab himself for his own rescue. That will, and we shall see, engineer the second split. Keshab Sen led the young faction to complete on August 22 1869 the founding of the new Bharatbarshiya Brahma Samaj or Brahma Samaj of India. The second schism specifically occurred when Keshab Sen --the founder of the new Samaj allowed his ‘underage’ daughter ( which according to Brahmo marriage Bill passed on the 19th of March, 1872 should have been fourteen for the bride) to be married to the Raja of ‘Koochbihar’ (failing the Brahmo law who was also not yet sixteen). Faced with charges of ‘inconsistency’, ‘child marriage’ and a denial of the ‘constitution’ of the church, Sen –after a long silence—feebly argued that it was on the request of the Government that he had given his daughter in marriage to the Maharajah so that the reforms in the state could continue under the “healthy influence” of Sen’s daughter as “ a good and enlightened wife” is “ capable of exercising” [75]. In his own words they assume a more interesting hue: “ The government seemed to ask me whether I would give my daughter in marriage to the Maharajah and thus help forward the good work so gloriously begun in that state I could not hesitate, but said at once, under the dictates of conscience, “yes” I have acted as a public man under the imperative call of public duty” [76]. But this call to ‘personal’ conscience or adesa coupled with snippets on ‘public’ duty was not listened to by his converts; they stood still by the institutional principle and allowed personal liberty so far as the latter did not violate the Brahmo constitutional code of conduct. In reality, the grid of institutional principle had become a boomerang by then. Sen’s caveats notwithstanding, the incidents that followed read thrilling even in Maxmueller’s hundred year old rendering: “Therefore Keshub Chunder Sen was accused of having broken the Brahma Marriage Law, which he himself had been chiefly instrumental in getting carried, and was considered as no longer fit to be Minister of the Samaj. Keshub Chunder Sen would not listen to any remostrances and when some members of his congregation voted [sic., vetoed] his deposition, he took forcible possession of the pulpit in his own Mandira, nay, he called on the police to help him. This finished the schism. Many of his former adherents left him, and founded on the 15th of May, 1878, a new Samaj, called the Sadharan Brahma Samaj, or the Catholic Samaj” [77]. This ‘conscience’ versus ‘constitution’, universality versus personal particularity; or the “letter of the law” against the “moral law” of “the spirit” [78] for which –to believe Sen –he had gone was never resolved irrespective of his own life-project—which was-- in his own words, “ atonement”, “reconciliation,” “unity” and similar other defenses [79]. Brahmo Samaj itself was an experiment in such syncretism. Having said this, I think it is necessary now to answer the question as to why, if the project of instituting the universal through civil society ( instanced in the growth of such ‘reformist’ religious corporations or indigenous churches as the Brahmo Samaj) was failing, a counter project of reconciliation between the universal and the particular did not emerge? The following example will answer the question. A troubled Maxmueller in Germany being an erstwhile friend of Sen, and who--- having been taken recourse to by both the factions, later reiterated his recommendation –which he had thought was the “ only hope for conciliation and peace between them”’ and that “lay in common practical work, and, more especially, in the organization of a large system of charity” [80]. This, as he himself confessed, went “ in vain.” But before exploring the failure of this advise and the theoretical reasons thereof, let us understand that this failure should not be reductive enough to suggest that Maxmueller was offering a scandal. If we look at Keshab’s career from very early on, there is no mistaking his emotional investment in so called charity and philanthropy. During his first sojourn in England he had stated, “ I have come to England to study the spirit of Christian philanthropy, of Christian charity, and honourable Christian self-denial” [81]. From introducing a department named ‘charity’ in the Indian Reform Association in 1869 to his last annual address in 1883 he was untiring in his celebration of charity[82]. And this engagement resulted, according to Max Mueller, even in the “reclaiming of drunkards” and “men of abandoned character” [83]. That this charity could not unite Keshab and the dissenters on such varying trysts as “anti liquor campaign” to “Industrial Education of the masses” ( a department again in the Indian Reform Association) meant that “drunkards” and “men of abandoned character”—at the end of the day-- remained unclaimed. This was ofcourse a significant loss.But Maxmueller’s proposal could be read more seriously; it seems to reinstate the dispute in the following way: If it is a dispute on the question of constitutional governance[84], then charity was institutionally inscribed with the Indian Brahmo Samaj; how come the complainants and the defendants could not come together to pursue this positive norm where the stakes of other vulnerable people are concerned? I think we need to stop here for a moment and speculate as to why -- this proposal (if not any ) didn’t work. This will also answer the larger question as to why a project ( quasi Hegelian too) of reconciliation between the universal and the particular was not attempted; and even if attempted – failed. I borrow from this study itself to offer a synoptic reason in not more than a sentence. Remember Hegel accusing charity itself as being inconsistent with the public spirit of helping in civil society. Now if there is any answer possible, it should be here: can this charity—given its inherently scandalous ‘particularistic’ nature, reconcile a universal-particular split imminent in the tensions generated in the Brahmo Samaj? No! And thereby it is not least surprising that its failure was anything but inevitable. Going back to the narrative of thematic accidents embodying this split, we find that by then, the institution seemed to have had a ghost inside its own machine. It moved on its own. The universal - by this time, to revoke the charge of the Sen-stung, original Brahmo’s, had genuinely assumed a “grotesque” and a “ridiculous” form. Now it scared even its own founder. To conclude the Section, it must be remembered that Keshab in the hey days of his career had introduced a distinction between a “local Christ” and a “ universal Christ” [85]. By the end of his career the local, it seems, had emphatically won. What was defeated was the enterprise of purging the particular and the personal to go for the universal and thus the modern. The atrophy of a secondary possible world of reconciliation whereby they two could sit together for a greater purpose was clearly visible too. This double failure sealed the fate of civil society in the colony in the 19th century. But did this failure still breed modernity? The interpretive axiom that we have proposed---- is it still validated by texts and discourses of our own times? We shall attempt to answer these questions in the conclusion.. III. Conclusion The story of secular modernist-objective-intelligent helping --symptomatic of Hegelian civil society then symptomatically fails in the colony. But this failure was not intended inorder to breed something different—an alternative modernity for example, or, in other words, it was not a conscious maneuver. Infact the attempt was to concur always with the paradigmatic registers of modernity; and its resonance lasts and echoes even in the first half of the twentieth century with Binoy Sarkar’s ( anachronistic)advocacy of public assistance. The impossibility of a theory of an alternative modernity, I think, lies here. It can be shown therefore why self-conscious attempts to find an alternative modernity are perhaps bereft of such a possibility, partly because there the unconscious narrative, against all the intentions of its agents, will tell a different story. It might seem that the story is a long story of failure; true, but this story is not without its share of theory; I’ll comment on the theory of this failure later. Finally, therefore, with the ‘multipersonal universalism’ failing and personalism’s triumph with even institutional personality invading, isn’t our interpretive grid able to account for not only our past but also present history? Having done for the 19th century, now, to claim legitimacy and contemporary relevance of this interpretive paradigm which I think is better suited to chart ( the albeit failed) transition of helping processes--old age charities to social work in the context of our modernity, I shall claim a final example. A year 2003 publication of the Belur Math ( the official headquarter of Ramakrishna Mission) which is also an official treatise on consciousness raising and organization of the Ramakrishna Mission and sister organizations, the author—a leading monk of the math declares: “ Every organization behaves like a living being. For this reason every establishment or organization may be called—an impersonal personality ( “ nyarbyaktik byaktitvo” ). In the larger context of society, the individual image that any organization bears, is its impersonal personality. If we imagine a radiant backdrop behind that impersonal personality --a backdrop that influences and attracts the larger society, [then it must be acknowledged ] that the latter must depend on its members’ renunciation, liberality, purity, truthfulness, neutrality, perseverance and the will to pursue seva. And all these virtues are results of a genuine love for Sri Ramakrishna. And to render this a better image what is necessary is, a genuine social welfarist agenda or a developmental model” [86]. Nothing could be a better deployment of the interpretive paradigm we have been proposing. In the year 2003 the notion of juridical ( impersonal) personality and the virtuous theory of religious origin share a peaceful co-existence; seva is just one among many personal virtues of the monk and the schedule of social welfare is invoked to improve upon the current image made up by such incidental conjunctions. What is not answered is how would the universal bear the burden of such personal particularities? The failure that was inaugurated in Bengal in the 19th century, then, continues unabated. Our interpretive graph is successful in rendering this trajectory transparent. So apparently that what we had thought of agreeing with the registers of civil society (or modernity) failed to sustain the universal conferred upon it. With everything failing, as Hegel remarked pathos not only becomes joyous but is a work of Art. But as I had mentioned before, the theory of this failure will tell that we are perhaps not wrong in choosing our addressee. It is Werner Hamacher who endorses such obsessions in the following manner. Hamacher argues that modernity is founded on failure. What we called the premodern or tradition ( those much debunked words) --if they had not failed then modernity would not have come into being. In this sense it is ridiculous to say modernity reflects an incomplete project because then the pre-modern could be said to have been similarly incomplete. Therefore modernity not only has failure as its foundation, it is its lifeline, “ because it recognizes itself in the collapse of the old, modernity must make failure into its principle. Modernity must fail in order to stay modern” [87]. When we want modernity to succeed we want it to disown its basic premise and thus wish for its annihilation. Are we convinced now that by their sheer failure, - the likes of Rammohan, Brajen Seal, Keshab Sen and all others have given modernity its tonic. They were not modern because they had succeeded in overcoming ‘tradition’, they were and still are modern because they had failed. And this failure when recounted, is, at per with the Hegelian premises, reading returning to itself [88]; we need to start again. ************************** NOTES [1]Sarkar, “Daridranarayner samaj-shastra,” p.73. [2]Vivekananda’s success in the U.S has often been described as a conquest--so much so that we find the pragmatist William James quoting Vivekananda and Romain Rolland, Maxmueller and later Christopher Isherwood writing about him. [3] Sarkar, Ibid., p.59. [4]Sarkar’s evaluation and much of the 19th century controversies reminiscent of the poor law ( Sarkar does mention poor law once on p.64) debate debunked charity ( in Sarkar’s language daan khairat(64) as old fashioned, ‘undisciplined’, ‘unruly’ and destructive of the self empowering capacities of the poor, but an other trajectory ---of which Sarkar seems to be unaware - attempted to derive the theory of self-help surprisingly from charity itself. Thus a historian quotes from the Charity organization report of 1884, “ We have to use charity to create the power of self help.” Woodroofe, From Charity to Social Work, In England and the United States, p.23. [5]Although tax- based poor relief has been traced to sixteenth century England, Sarkar wants to retain the public ‘tax’ part of the method and thus use it as a state linked modern form of assistance. Sarkar, “Daridranarayner samaj-shastra”, p.64. [6] Though in Sarkar’s use of the term Gesellschaft appears as society, a more correct, updated rendering of Tonnies -- also close to what Sarkar tends to mean by society-- is civil society. Tonnies, Community and Civil Society. [7] Sarkar, “Daridranarayner samaj-shastra”, p.79. [8]Ibid., p. 80. [9]The conceptual or notional matrix is proposed in place of plain historical accounts ( giving linear details of the ‘Jewish Charitable Bequests and Hekdesh Trust in Thirteenth-Century Spain’(Galinsky, “Jewish Charitable Bequests and Hekdesh Trust in Thirteenth-Century Spain’, Journal of Interdisciplinary History,(hereafter JOIH), 34 ( 3), 2005, 423-440, or ‘The Earliest Hospitals in Byzantium, Western Europe, and Islam’ (Horden, “The Earliest Hospitals in Byzantium, Western Europe, and Islam.”, (JOIH 34, 3 : 361-389.) or plain politico-ideological accounts which sees welfare as surveillance or claims to care as historically hegemonic charted in either Foucauldian or Gramscian terms. What is at stake is a failure to grasp an internal or immanent critique which contributed towards the evolution of ancient charity/benevolence or religious philanthropy via governmental welfarism to now, nearly universal Social Work moods and methods. The above frameworks fail to make the change visible. [10] Foucault, “Governmentality” In The Foucault Effect [11] Marshall, The Right to Welfare [12] Chatterjee, “ Population and Political Society” [13] Hegel, The Philosophy of History, pp.66-67. [14] Ibid.,p. 67. [15] Ibid.,p. 67. [16]Ibid., p.66. [17]Hegel, Philosophy of Mind, p.261. [18] Hegel, Elements of the Philosophy of Right, pp.220-221 (italics mine). [19]Hegel, The Philosophy of Subjective Spirit, Vol.II, p.83. [20] Ibid., p.85. [21] Ibid., p.85. [22]Ibid., p.85. [23]Ibid., p.85. [24]Delon, ‘Charity’ In Encyclopedia of Enlightenment, Vol 1, p. 234. [25] Hegel, Elements of the Philosophy of Right, p.226. [26] Ibid., p. 265. [27] Ibid., p. 265. [28]Ibid., p. 265. [29]Ibid., p. 265. [30]Ibid., p. 265. [31]This point that alms degrade men is emphatically available in Kant : ‘Better than charity, better than giving of our surplus is conscientious and scrupulously fair conduct and a hand in need. Alms degrade men. It would be better to see whether the poor man could not be helped in some other way which would not entail his being degraded by accepting alms.’ Kant, “Poverty and Charity”, p.236. [32]Hegel, Elements of the Philosophy of Right, p. 265. [33] Hegel, Phenomenology of Spirit, 255. [34] Hegel, Elements of the Philosophy of Right, pp. 265-266. [35] Hegel, Phenomenology of Spirit, p. 255. [36] Ibid., p. 256. [37]Hegel, Elements of the Philosophy of Right, p. 269. [38] Ibid., p. 267. [39]Spivak, A Critique of Postcolonial Reason, p.65. [40]Guha, History at the Limit of World-History. [41]Chakraborty, Habitations of Modernity: Essays in the wake of Subaltern Studies, p.81. [42] A Plain historical approach may be corrected in the following way: Take for instance `the observation that the Hegelian construct of civil society exhibits exhortations that express Hegel’s fear of the rabble or the large mass of the poor people. Some with a historical nose smelled in this Hegel’s fear of the future industrial proletariat and the communist revolution. It has been recently pointed out how this is mistaken. Hegel’s face is rather turned towards the past. It is rather England’s poor law that could be said to have had a remote thematic reference. For some such corrections see Jones, “Hegel and the Economics of Civil Society”. [43]Rose, Hegel, p.14. [44] Ibid., p.15. [45] Hegel, Lectures on the philosophy of World History, p. 25. [46] Ibid., p.25. [47] Stace, The Philosophy of Hegel, p. 412. [48] Hegel, Lectures on the philosophy of World History , p.26, (italics mine). [49] Adorno, Negative Dialectics,p.359. [50] Gayatri Spivak in her more deconstructive moods remarks that there is a lack of fit between morphology and narrative in Hegel ( Spivak, Outside in the Teaching Machine, p.209). But, if that is so, then Hegel’s historical narrative should be assumed to have been belied by his abstruse and complicated logical machinery or morphology; in other words, Hegel could be shown to have been opposing his own historical conclusions. Among those who are known as “postcolonials” and have engaged with Hegel, it is, to my mind, only Partha Chatterjee (Chatterjee, ‘Communities and the Nation,’ pp.220-239) who has been able to avoid this trap by not trying to address Hegel historically. [51] Seal, ‘The Neo Romantic Movement in Literature’ (1890-91), p.17. [52] Haldar, Hegelianism and Human Personality, 1910. [53] Also, “ an objective criticism, appraising things according to the measure in which they fulfill the law of their being, or reflect the regulative idea of their type or pattern” .Ibid., p. 57. [54] Taylor, Sources of the Self. [55] Dilip Kumar Biswas-a Rammohan specialist disagrees with Seal. He opines that instead of Voltaire et.al.it was Roy’s engagement with Islamic discourses—where one might seek the sources of this comparison. Biswas, Rammohan Samiksha, p.62. [56]Seal, Rammohun Roy, p. 10. [57] Ibid., p.2. [58]Ibid., p.10. [59] Ibid., p. 8. [60] Adam, A Lecture on the Life And Labours of Rammohun Roy, p.3. [61] Basing myself on the mask or persona and the Aesthetics of Hegel, I elaborate in a different paper how the figurative character of charity (made memorable by the Pascalian saying that charity is not figurative)--- which civil society tries to suppress, opens up, through the bursting of allegories in modernist poetry and painting, an immense number of interesting readings. [62] Seal, Rammohun Roy, pp. 37-38. [63] Ibid., p.24. [64] Ibid., p. 26. [65] Ibid., p. 27. [66]Ibid., p.27. [67]Ibid., p.25. [68] Ibid., p.30. [69] Sen, “The Brahmo Samaj, or Theism in India”, p.164. [70] Ibid., p.169. [71] Ibid., p.170. [72] Later, the arrival of social Work in India ( complete by 1936) as the science of helping with a large body of services and provisions, expert knowledge, regulation of institutions and an absolute disapproval of personal charity, may be conjectured, was along these lines. [73] It is interesting and contextually exciting to note that in a history which attempts to document charities and social Aid in Greece and Rome, requires to inform us in a chapter titled ‘Charities And Legal Personality’ (Hands, Charities And Social Aid in Greece And Rome, pp.17-25) about the way modern charities “ are generally institutions existing in their own right; independently of the continued existence of the particular body which may be administering it at any given time”( 17). But this modern inheritance, it may be noted, does have a very relevant pre-history too: “ The establishment of permanent endowments, administered by trusts of this nature was notably encouraged by the Elizabethan Act of charitable uses in the post Reformation period, similar to those which in the Middle Ages had been granted by the Ecclesiastical Courts to charities ” (Ibid., pp.17-18). [74] Max Mueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, p.12, italics mine. [75] Sen, “Keshab Chandra Sen defends his conduct in regard to Cooch Behar Marriage” In, Nanda Mukherjee, ed., F. Max Mueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, p. 70. [76] Ibid., p.70. [77] Ibid.,p. 24. [78] Sen, “Keshab Chandra Sen defends his conduct ”, p.72. [79] Sen, “ Asia’s Message to Europe”, pp. 110-111 [80] Maxmueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, p.26. [81] Ibid., p. 21. [82]“ Your highest gifts are as nothing if you have no charity. There is no salvation without love, no sanctification without charity. Sectarianism is not only carnal, it is also unscientific” Sen, “ Asia’s Message to Europe”, p. 105. [83] Maxmueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, p.15. [84] This is exemplified by Maxmueller’s comment on the dissenters, “ I entirely agree with them that a church should be constitutionally governed, and that tyranny of every kind should be resisted” (Ibid., p.28). [85] Maxmueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, p.22. [86] Sarbagananda, Bhavprachar O Samgathan, p. 44. My translation from Bengali; italicized words are in English in the original. [87] Hamacher, Premises, p.294. [88] Hamacher, Pleroma—Reading in Hegel, p. 9 REFERENCES Adam, William. A Lecture on the Life And Labours of Rammohun Roy. Rakhal Das Haldar ed., Calcutta, 1977(originally published in 1879). Adorno, Theodor. Negative Dialectics ( trans. E.B. Ashton), London, 1973. Biswas, Dilip Kumar. Rammohan Samiksha, [in Bengali], Kolkata, 1983. Chakraborty, Dipesh. Habitations of Moderntiy: Essays in the wake of Subaltern Studies, New Delhi, 2004. Chatterjee, Partha. ‘Communities and the Nation’, in his The Nation and its Fragments. Delhi, 1994, pp. 226-239. ------------------------------‘Populations and Political Society’, in his Politics of the Governed, Delhi, 2004, pp.27-51. Delon, Michel. ed., ‘Charity’, in Encyclopedia of Enlightenment, Vol 1, Chicago, 2001, pp. 233-234. Foucault, Michael. ‘Governmentality’, in Graham Burchell, Coin Gordon and Peter Miller, eds., The Foucault Effect: Studies in Governmentality, Chicago, 1991, pp. 87-104. Galinsky, Judah D. ‘Jewish Charitable Bequests and Hekdesh Trust in Thirteenth-Century Spain’, Journal of Interdisciplinary History, Vol. 34 ( 3), 2005, pp. 423-440. Guha, Ranajit. History at the Limit of World-History, Delhi, 2003. Haldar, Hiralal. Hegelianism and Human Personality. Calcutta, 1910. Hamacher, Werner. Premises: Essays on Philosophy and Literature from Kant to Celan, (trans. Peter Fenves, Cambridge, 1990. ---------------------------- Pleroma—Reading in Hegel: The Genesis and Structure of a Dialectical Hermeneutics in Hegel (transl: N. Walker & S. Jarvis), London, 1998. Hands, A.R. Charities And Social Aid in Greece And Rome, Great Britain, 1968. Hegel, G.W.F. ---------------- Hegel’s Philosophy of Mind, Translated from The Encyclopedia of the Philosophical Sciences (transl. William Wallace), Oxford, 1894. --------------The Philosophy of History ( transl. J. Sibree), New York, 1956. ----------------The Philosophy of Subjective Spirit, Vol.II (transl. M.J. Petry), Holland, 1979. ---------------Lectures on the philosophy of World History, Introduction : Reason in History (trans. H.B. Nisbet), Cambridge, 1987. ----------------Phenomenology of Spirit (transl. A.V Miller), Delhi, 1998. --------------- Elements of the Philosophy of Right, (transl. H.B Nisbet), Cambridge, 2000 (originally published in 1991). Horden, Peregrine. ‘The Earliest Hospitals in Byzantium, Western Europe, and Islam’ Journal of Interdisciplinary History Vol. 34 ( 3), 2005, 361-389. Jones, Gareth Stedman. ‘Hegel and the Economics of Civil Society’, in Sudipta Kaviraj & Sunil Khilnani, eds., Civil Society: History and Possibilities, Cambridge, 2002, pp. 105-130. Kant, Immanuel. ‘Poverty and Charity’, In his Lectures On Ethic (transl. Louis Infield), N.Y, 1963, pp.235-236. Marshall, T.H. The Right to Welfare and other Essays, London, 1981. Max Mueller, F. Keshub Chunder Sen, Nanda Mukherjee, ed., Calcutta, 1976. Rose, Gilian. Hegel : Contra Sociology, London, 1981. Sarbagananda, Swami. Bhavprachar O Samgathan, [ in Bengali], Kolkata, 2003. Sarkar, Benoy Kumar. ‘Daridranarayner samaj-shastra’, in Samaj Vijnan, [ in Bengali], Calcutta, 1938, pp. 59-80. Seal, Brajendranath. ‘The Neo Romantic Movement in Literature’, (published in The Modern Review in 1890-91) in his New Essays in Criticism. Calcutta, 1994, (originally published in 1903), 13-84. ----------------------------- Rammohun Roy: The Universal Man. Calcutta, N.D. Sen, Keshub Chunder. ---------------------------- ‘Keshab Chandra Sen defends his conduct in regard to Cooch Behar Marriage’, in Nanda Mukherjee, ed., F. Max Mueller. Keshub Chunder Sen, ( Appendix III), Calcutta, 1976, pp. 69-73. ---------------------‘Asia’s Message to Europe’, in Nanda Mukherjee, ed., F. Max Mueller, Keshub Chunder Sen, (Appendix VIII), Calcutta, pp.103-117. --------------------‘The Brahmo Samaj, or Theism in India’, in Saroj Mohan Mitra, ed., The Golden Book of Rammohun Roy, Calcutta, 1997, pp. 164-173. Spivak, Gayatri Chakravorty. Outside in the Teaching Machine, New York, 1993. ------------------------------------- A Critique of Postcolonial Reason: Towards a History of the Vanishing Present, Calcutta, 1999. Stace, William Terence. The Philosophy of Hegel: A Systematic Exposition, N.Y, 1955. Taylor, Charles. Sources of the Self: The making of the modern identity, Cambridge, Mass, 1989. Tonnies, Ferdinand. Community and Civil Society,(trans. Joe Harris and Margaret Hollis), Cambridge, 2001(originally published in 1887). Woodroofe, Kathleen. From Charity to Social Work, In England and the United States, London, 1962. ------ ___________________________________ Once upon a time there was 1 GB storage in your inbox. To know the happy ending go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From mrsg at vsnl.com Mon Aug 13 14:35:05 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:35:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Taslima References: <98f331e00708122158r77e51637ncaad28a7c15030e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c7dd89$0c545560$fdbb41db@MRAY> This is not the first incident of 'attack' on Taslima. In 'leftist" West Bengal, Taslima's programme was banned by West Bengal Government's administration in Medinipur in 2005. There the muslims threatened to disrupt programme and the CPIM-led government's administration banned the programme. And so-called progressive poets of Bengal, the humanrights-wallas, all remained silent. Then this year Taslima was the guest to inaugurate Sliguri Book Fair (Siliguri is the largest town in North Bengal). Again hardly 20 muslims staged a procession and burnt her effigy. Immediately the organisers cancelled Taslima's programme. So Taslima is virtually banned in parts of West Bengal. But this really represents the true character of today's West Bengal which is going to be a part of Bangladesh, courtsey the blatant appeasement of Islamic fundamentalist by CPI-M and all shades of Congress. In recent elections in Haldia, Medinipur, Mamata Bannerjee did not have coalition with 'communal' BJP but had coalition with Jamat who stopped Taslima's programme. Taslima is not getting Indian Citizenship because the state where she would stay has to give a no-objection certificate. CPM government of West Bengal is still refusing to give her no-objection to appease their islamic fundamentalist allies and also the Congress. CPI-M government banned her book because it can cause communal disturbance. The ban has been withdrawn by the court but no communal disturbance occured. There is no major difference between Hyderabad and Kolkata in appeasing isalmic fumdamentalists. Only difference is that West Bengal was snatched away from Pakistan to safeguard non-muslims of Bengal (in fact many a leftist ministers are all refugees) but that West Bengal is being gifted away to Islamic Bangladesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "prakash ray" To: Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Taslima > *I, on behalf of Cinemela Collectives, strongly condemn the physical > attack > on Taslima Nasreen, a Bangladeshi writer. This attack is entirely against > the democratic and secular character of the Indian polity and we cannot > tolerate it in any manner. * > > *One may have differences over the writings or any other kind of artistic > articulations of Taslima Nasreen or anybody else, but this definitely is > not > the appropriate manner to express dissent. This very act militates against > the freedom of expression. * > *We demand that the Andhra Pradesh government take firm action against the > culprits responsible for this attack and the writer must be provided with > adequate security. We also urge the govts to stop those people who are > openly threatening artists and cultural activists. * > ** > *We call upon the democratic-minded people to stand in firm solidarity > against the fundamentalists of all kinds.* > ** > *Prakash K Ray* > *Convenor, Cinemela Collectives * > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From burtoncleetus at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 13 20:49:22 2007 From: burtoncleetus at yahoo.co.uk (burton cleetus) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:19:22 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] 4th posting -Rockefeller foundation-mapping the urban life Message-ID: <422040.99094.qm@web27107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mapping the urban life The organization of the sanitary conditions by the state of Travancore particularly for the urban centres was closely interconnected to the changing notions of the disease and the way in which it was perceived in the indigenous societies. The spread of contagious diseases was considered as a result of the overcrowding of the population. By the second half of the nineteenth century cholera, and small pox were considered serious threat to the people of the state. While the pre-nineteenth century categorization of diseases by the indigenous medical practitioners and accepted by the state, ‘fever’ was the most important cause of death. Nevertheless the spread of western medicine provided a new paradigm for the understanding of the disease. As per biomedical understandings, fever became a symptom rather than disease itself. This led to new forms of categorization of the diseases. Small pox, cholera and plague came to be understood as the most important cause of death. The earliest record of the ravages of cholera in Travancore was in 1869-70 AD, and it struck again in 1876-77 in Trivandrum, and in 1881-82 at Nagercoil and at Suchindram. This was understood to be the result of the arrival of people for the annual car festival. The disease continued in the three succeeding years in a more or less severe form. In 1888-89 there was a terrible epidemic in the taluks of Tovala, Agastisvaram and Eraniel with 2101 deaths. However by 1892-93 cholera hitherto limited to the southern districts of the state spread to the northern parts and was then imported into the capital by the returning pilgrims from the Ashtami festival at Vaikom. In 1891-92 on account of the unusually severe prevalence of cholera and smallpox at the capital the government considered the urgency of introducing urgent sanitary measures. A standing committee was appointed to consider the subject and to suggest from time to time such measures as might be necessary to protect the town. By the same time the there was the realization that overcrowding of the people was an important cause for the spread of the diseases. The cholera bacillus were thought to have been brought to Travancore from the adjoining British Territory and with the influx of pilgrims in connection with St. Xaviers festival at Kottar and the Car festival at Suchindram. The condition of insanitation at festive gatherings was considered pronounced so as to render every facility for the growth, development and dissemination of the disease to all parts. However the possibility of the latent cholera germs belonging to a previous epidemic existing here and there, and which under certain conditions and acquiring fresh life and start the disease on an epidemic course was desired. Thus three factors for the cause of the outbreak of cholera was identified. First, an active morbific agent in the form of a specific cholera germ, Second a nutrient pabulum or food represented by filth and general insanitation on which the cholera germ can live, multiply and thrive, producing the disease with an intensity proportionate to the activity of its organic life. Third, a certain combination of meteorological conditions about whose precise nature, opinion is still divided. Thus the state was not in a position to arrive at the exact nature of the causes of the spread of the disease in the state. Similarly small pox continued to be an important cause of worry for the authorities. By 1870’s, small pox became a source of serious concern. However vaccination against smallpox did not meet with much success. The benefits of vaccination had not yet begun to be understood by the people at large. There was a very strong prejudice prevalent among the people against placing smallpox patients under regular treatment. The durbar physician observes in his departmental Administration report that, “the Hindus who constitute the great mass of the population generally look upon any attempt to control the course of it as little less than impious. It is with the greatest difficulty, and that too in comparatively few cases that they can be got even to disinfections. Comparatively very few of the population, especially among the adults, are protected by vaccination and therefore considered also the in sanitary conditions, public as well as private, in which the people live, it cannot be expected that the epidemic shall soon diminish in intensity.” Till the close of the nineteenth century there was no regular agency for the registration of vital statistics in Travancore though the village officers was expected to keep a register of births and deaths known as Jananamaranakannakku, which was neither considered accurate nor exhaustive. With the passing of the Towns improvement and conservancy Regulation II of 1894 AD the registration of births and deaths were regularly started in the towns of Trivandrum, Nagercoil, Quilon, Alleppey and Kottayam under the control of the town improvement committees appointed by government in 1894-95. A scheme for the registration of the births and deaths throughout the state was sanctioned with effect from the beginning of 1895 and special department was organised for Vaccination, Vital statistics and sanitation and placed under the charge of an officer styled the sanitary commissioner. The main lines of the scheme were laid down by the government as follows, The department as the name indicates, is charged with, 1) Registration of births and deaths, 2) Sanitation of all parts of the country except the towns brought under the operation of the Town Improvement regulation 3) Vaccination through out the country. The department will be under the control of a professional officer styled sanitary commissioner who will be in direct communication with the government. For purposes of this department, the whole country is divided into four districts and an inspector will be appointed to each district whose duty will be 1) to superintendent and check the vital statistics through out the district, 2) to attend to the sanitation of all parts of the district where the Town improvement Regulation is not in force; 3) to study and report on the state of public health within his district; 4) to superintendent the vaccination work and to be a sort of traveling dispensary, actually conveying medical aid to the door of the villager. The inspectors will be under the immediate orders of the sanitary commissioner. Earlier in 1865 a regular vaccination department was constituted and Dr. Pulney Andy was appointed as the Superintendent of Vaccination. Subordinate to him there were a head vaccinator and 27 other vaccinators. The department was transferred to the control of the sanitary commissioner in 1895-96 with a total number of 81vaccinators. Under the new arrangement effected in 1895-96 the superintendent of vaccination was transferred to the medical department and the office of the vaccination inspectors ceased to exist. It was only in 1888-89 that calf lymph was first introduced in Travancore, and sanction accorded for the maintenance of a vaccine depot at the capital. Hitherto the quality of the lymph was improved by the occasional introduction of animal lymph from Madras. Vaccination was made compulsory with regard to Public servants, students in all public schools, Government or aided, Hospital patients and jail convicts, and vakkils practicing under sunnads in courts. This was affected by the royal proclamation issued on the 14th August 1878, which while pointing out the advantages as vaccination as a protection against smallpox, also called upon the general population to submit to the operation setting before them the example of the royal family. It was calculated to exercise a wholesome influence in the minds of the public, first in removing the impression that the vaccine virus inoculated form hand to hand had the effect of producing diseases from which the subject may be suffering, and secondly as the means of counteracting the prejudices of the higher classes in subjecting themselves to be vaccinated with the virus obtained from the lower classes of the people. Such impression operated prejudicially to the progress of vaccination. The durbar physician in 1881 and the sanitary commissioner in 1896-97 urged upon the government the necessity to make vaccination compulsory in Travancore, but the government was of the opinion that under the existing circumstances of the country it was neither wise nor practicable to do so and the time has not come for enforcing vaccination by a punitive act. Sanitation and urban governance Prior to the 1876-77 there was little attention paid to the conservancy or sanitation of even the capital city of Thiruvananthapuram, beyond employing a few sweepers under the orders of the tahsildar to occasionally sweep the streets in the forts. A committee was accordingly appointed in 1880-81 to report on the sanitation of the capital and to suggest measures for placing it in an efficient condition. The recommendations of the committee included the construction of public latrines, removal of the night soils and sweepings to a distance from the towns, the construction of a number of dust boxes and carts specially adopted for conservancy purposes, the guarding of the principle tanks and feeding tanks from pollution, the opening of new vegetable bazaars the laying of new rules for regulating the erection of new buildings to prevent the encroachments, the widening of certain lanes, the better regulation of burial and cremation of grounds and the entertainment of an adequate establishment under proper supervision. All these recommendations were accepted and placed under the supervision of a sanitary inspector. In 1886-87 the conservancy system was extended to the towns of Kottayam, Alleppey, Kollam and Kottar. This was considered as the germ of the "Modern Town Improvement Committees." ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 22:08:07 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <465264.34227.qm@web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree with you - the efforts of stopping a screening are not right - the group of people who are against this film are certainly a desparate lot, probably because no one seems to be listening to them (as someone among them said "the film rubs salt with their wounds"). But someone needs to take an initiative to create a congenial atmosphere where they can probably be invited formally for a screening and a discussion. Why don't we make an invitation right on this forum (or Sarai-list etc.) to the group of people who are against the film, to come and join us for a "peaceful" screening and a more civilized debate where issues can be discussed in a more friendly and fruitful manner. And let us see how is the response. I think some of those protesting against the film did say on the Sarai list that they are NOT against the showing of the film. So let us start an online poll or petition (primarily for those against the film) to find whether they are seriously interested in a healthy screening and dialogue or not. It may be of benefit to everyone. --- Saba Dewan wrote: > Dear Yousuf, > > I agree with you that we need to hear out and > respond to the best of our > abilities peoples' objections to our film. However I > do think that you are > blurring the boundaries between people's right to > protest against a > film/painting/book they find offensive and their > mode of protest. Few film > makers would have a problem about letting people in > to a screening and > engaging with them in a critical debate - AFTER THE > FILM IS OVER. Come and > watch my film, rip it apart if you must post > screening and if even then if > it continues to rankle go ahead and put your point > of view across in as many > public foras as you can. Write, paint, make a film > or just talk to other > like minded people and come up with ways of > democratic protest. Whether I > agree or not with your point of view I have no > problems with this at all . > > But if on the other hand you choose to protest by > wanting to disrupt the > screening of a film (and in most cases succeeding) - > how democratic is that > ? As I see it this amounts to violating freedom of > expression along with a > bankruptcy of an alternate point of view. The irony > is that in most cases > people who come baying for stopping a film have > actually not even seen it > for themselves. What kind of debate is possible in > such a scenario? And > whose freedom of expression is to be protected here > ? > > Cheers > > Saba > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 From kj.impulse at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 20:45:08 2007 From: kj.impulse at gmail.com (Kavita Joshi [Impulse]) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:45:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA: 13] Preview Screenings: Black Pamphlets [Film On Students Elections] Message-ID: <821019d70708130815t528b3fc0q4a276c01d2a3e37a@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nitin k nitinforfilms at gmail.com Dear Friends, You are invited to the preview screenings of my new first film... "Black Pamphlets" Duration: 84 minutes A film about Students elections, students politics, Campus democracy and Youth. The film tries to find out the temper of youth and the mindset of student community in the neo‐liberal democracy of India towards the process of election. The Film follows the twelve day election campaign of Delhi university students' Union(DUSU) Elections which are held on First Friday of September Every year. Its an inside journey of the election process as Director Himself has played the Subject; as he was part of the student politics in DU and also fought DUSU election once, for more we have done a small trailer of the film you can watch it by clicking here :: @WATCH IT@ there are few preview screenings of the film in DU Colleges and elsewhere.if you want to catch the film log on for date and timings to blog of our film. College Screening Schedule: ## 14th August'07 @ Swami Shraddhanand College Alipur, Delhi time : 11:30 a.m. ## 16th August'07 @ Ambedkar college, Yamuna Vihar, Delhi time : 12:00 a.m. ## 17th August'07 @ Aditi Mahavidhyalaya Bawana, Delhi time: 11.00 a.m. ## 20-21 August'07 @ Activity Center, Arts Faculty,(north Campus) Delhi time 12:00 p.m. ## 22nd August'07 Hindu College,North Campus, delhi time 12.00 p.m. ## 23rd August'07 Ramjas College, Delhi time 11.00 a.m . ## 24th August'07 Ramlal Anand College, South Campus, Delhi time 11.00 a.m. I am looking forward to screen the film at various venues,colleges, institutions and Universities around the globe... if you can help me arranging screenings, the film can initiate a positive debate on the subject of campus democracy. For any further information and details please click below: www.blackpamphlets.wordpress.com Nitin k. Filmmaker Delhi(INDIA) email: nitinforfilms at gmail.com - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive/ Contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com Visit our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org See the LIST OF FILMS in the Archive: http://www.delhifilmarchive.org/archive.html -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mail at shivamvij.com Tue Aug 14 13:04:30 2007 From: mail at shivamvij.com (Shivam Vij) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:04:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The People's President and all that Message-ID: <9c06aab30708140034u634dd0e3g5fc600829f35e7e4@mail.gmail.com> I've been of the opinion that the selling of Kalam as a middle class icon has been one of the biggest PR tricks of our times. Please do read the article below by AG Noorani. best shivam Not quite a free hand AG Noorani, Hindustan Times August 13, 2007 First Published: 23:37 IST(13/8/2007) Last Updated: 00:18 IST(14/8/2007) http://hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=1ffb3552-e07d-4e7f-a0f3-acaba7b00c51&&Headline=Not+quite+a+free+hand We must not take the office of the President of India for granted. At least four of them came close to subverting the Constitution they had sworn to uphold. Rajendra Prasad sent a memo to Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru on March 21, 1950, trying to reopen the very issues on the President's powers, which were settled in the Constituent Assembly in his presence. As Granville Austin remarked, "Had his first attempt to ignore constitutional restrictions and to play the part of his own Prime Minister not been foiled, parliamentary government in India would have disappeared before it was two years old." Kalam reconfirmed why we need to codify presidential powersOn S Radhakrishnan, US Ambassador Chester Bowles records in his memoirs, "On several occasions he expressed to me in a half-joking manner the wish that somehow after Nehru's death or retirement the whole country could operate under 'President's rule' for a few months. This, he said, would enable him in his role as President to ease some of the cumulating political conflicts and make some of the difficult but necessary decisions before turning the government over to a new Prime Minister and Cabinet". On those "several occasions" he was probing for US support. A serving army officer, Major General Niranjan Prasad, who had been removed from the command of 4 Division, was summoned by Radhakrishnan on November 4, 1962, and told, "It was not necessary to be in uniform." On September 11, 1965, Air Marshal Arjun Singh was called in Bowles' presence to brief Radhakrishnan on the war. Zakir Hussain, a model President had a brief innings (1967-69). The less said about the near quarter century (1969-1992) the better. In June 1987, Zail Singh, as President, seriously contemplated dismissing Rajiv Gandhi but prudence overcame ambition. The Indian Presidency really came into its own when Shankar Dayal Sharma became President in 1992. His example was emulated by K.R. Narayanan. Both respected the limitations, acted with dignity and circumspection but did not hesitate to speak up either in private or in a very few grave cases in public, when silence would have been a lapse. APJ Abdul Kalam did not follow their example. Four transgressions in particular bear recalling because their grave implications have not been appreciated. First, as Vir Sanghvi revealed (The accidental President, HT, June 3, 2006), Abdul Kalam asked Prime Minister A.B. Vajpayee to resign in 2004 "because it would be wrong for the government to continue in office while elections [to the Lok Sabha] were being held". Despite the Law Minister's 'lecture', the President persisted and "eventually the matter led to a stand-off". It was not a casual suggestion but a calculated move. "Kalam would not change his views." At last, he "blinked". Vajpayee did a service to Indian democracy by his firmness. What would have been Abdul Kalam's next step had the PM complied? The kind of set-up which Radhakrishnan described to Bowles — the President ruling India with the aid of the army and the police force, having dissolved the Lok Sabha. He was flouting the text of the Constitution as well as a clear ruling of the Supreme Court. Article 74 (1) says "there shall be a Council of Ministers with the Prime Minister at the head to aid and advise the President who shall, in the exercise of his functions, act in accordance with such advice". The President cannot hand-pick any one he likes. The ministers must enjoy the confidence of the Lok Sabha; "be collectively responsible" to it (Art. 75 (2)). The Supreme Court ruled in 1971 that the PM can continue in office during the elections for "the President cannot exercise executive powers without the aid and advice of the Council of Ministers with the Prime Minister at the head." Not once in the entire history of the parliamentary system had any head of State made the suggestions Abdul Kalam did. Whatever led him to assume such confidence? He had every right to return the Office of Profit Bill to Parliament on May 30, 2006, for its reconsideration. It was re-enacted without amendment whereupon he gave his assent on June 21. But not before a period of suspense in which hints were thrown of a possible veto. Assent was given only after he had extracted an assurance of review by a committee. He had no such right or power. The President is bound to assent to a returned Bill re-enacted by Parliament without ado or demur. On mercy petitions, Abdul Kalam said in October 2005, "All aspects should be discussed in Parliament and a comprehensive policy laid down." The clamour for clarity and certitude does not reckon with the complexities of crime and of the power of pardon, subjects of criminal law and constitutional law to which the colossal erudition unfortunately did not extend. No country has "a comprehensive policy" on the subject. In the very nature of things discretion must remain unfettered. While giving his assent to the Right to Information Act on June 15, 2005, Abdul Kalam wrote a note to the PM, Manmohan Singh, making three points: that communications between the President and the Council of Ministers should not come within its purview, that notings on the files by bureaucrats be excluded, and that only the Centre should frame the Rules under the Act not the states. The note was pointless. Once a law is enacted, the executive has no power to restrict its application. He did not know that umpteen central laws empower the states to frame rules where duties are devolved on them in our federal polity. Disclosure of notings is covered by the Act. As for the exchanges with the Council of Ministers, neither Art. 74(2) of the Constitution nor Section 123 of the Evidence Act applies. Art. 74(2) says "the question whether any advice and if so, what, advice was tendered by ministers to the President shall not be inquired into in any court". But the Supreme Court has ruled that "only the actual advice" is privileged. "The records other than the advice… may be required to be produced" before the court. It ruled also that Section 123 of the Evidence Act does not prevent the courts, when such privilege is claimed, to decide the validity of the claim on a perusal of the documents. On all the three points, Abdul Kalam's views on a liberal law were illiberal and based on sheer ignorance. His four major interventions reflect common traits — enormous self-assurance, disregard for the Constitution, the law and the Supreme Court's rulings and a passion to set his own rules, though nothing in his career had equipped him on these matters. He decided to act as a 'man of science' prescribing order and certainty to all. Our subcontinental polity must have a two-party system was one of his right ideas. Asked whether "the President can play a greater role", he replied, "Yes, yes. What he thinks he wants to do, he can do." In fact, he can act only within the established law, conventions and precedents. It is time they are codified. (c) Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times From c.archana at rediffmail.com Tue Aug 14 14:03:36 2007 From: c.archana at rediffmail.com (Archana ) Date: 14 Aug 2007 08:33:36 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] CRY: National Child Rights Research Fellowships Message-ID: <20070814083336.22310.qmail@f5mail6.rediffmail.com> National Child Rights Research Fellowships CRY---Child Rights and You, invites applications for research fellowships investigating the best interest principle within the broad framework of justice for children. The best interest principle, hence, needs to be explored so as to understand ways in which it impacts the inter-generational experience of childhoods; a child's relationship with other children, family (both immediate and extended), community, society and the State. (Possible arenas: schools, work spaces, public spaces, parents, extended family including grandparents, health centres, police stations, playgrounds) A partial indicative list of focus areas is provided below.Potential fellows are welcome to expand and interpret the theme, based on their life experiences and vision. We encourage original ideas, out of the box approaches and seek creative methodologies. From the insights and information that researchers will share, we hope to learn more about the interplay of culture, tradition, law, ethics and policy in defining the best interest principle. Possible Focus Areas Investigate what factors encourage collective action on behalf of children. Reflect on constructions of childhood and the implications on children's rights. Generate insights on how children understand violence (domestic, caste-based, communal, from the State), and their coping strategies. Map the trends and dynamics of social change processes and their implications for children, identifying faultlines and arenas of concerns. Gather evidence on the relationships between ethnicity,inequality and conflict as witnessed and/or experienced by children. Locating identity questions (language, discourse,representation) within the school-community relationship. Is best interest principle, a value, a constitutional right,an interpretative advocacy instrument or a rule of law. Principles governing the Fellowship Eligibility: Potential fellows will be Indians residing in India, above the age of 18 years. There is no upper age limit.Preference will be given to applicants who have studied in government schools, where no fees are charged (Studies conducted and CRY's experiential learning of working with 2000 deprived communities in villages and urban slums demonstrates that students attending government schools are primarily Dalits, tribals, girls and children from female headed and/or landless households.) It is expected that potential fellows ascribe to the CRY values: -Respect for Human Dignity -Secularism -Non-Violence -Accountability -Innovation -Transparency -Working in Partnership Language: Proposals may be submitted in any Indian language. They will be translated into English and it is the English translation that will be reviewed. Grant Sizes: In all upto 10 fellowships for grant sizes ranging from Rs.50,000 to Rs.1 lakh will be awarded. These will be support grants and fellows will be free to continue their primary occupation or study programme. Time Frame: From one month to one year. Time Frame: From one month to one year. Selected fellows will be expected to participate in an initial workshop to share research plans and gain from the collective experience possibly in January 2008. CRY will take care of travel, boarding and lodge for fellows participating in the workshop. Dissemination: Research results will be made available to a broad audience of activists, academics, programmers and interested general public through multiple fora, including language translations to influence the course of the debate on child rights and the best interest principle. Ownership: While fellows will retain authorship of the final research product, all information and insights gathered will be open access and available to the widest possible numbers, for no charge. Fellows will also be free to publish the insights of their research efforts, with appropriate acknowledgement of the National Child Rights Research Fellowship and CRY. Requirements for English language proposals: Please e-mail a three-page proposal (it should include scope, relevance, research question, conceptual framework, proposed methodology, time frame and required budget) along with a two-page CV (please include a names and contact phone numbers of two referees) and a sample of related published/unpublished work. Proposals which do not include names and phone numbers of referees will not be reviewed. Please send only Word or Acrobat files. It is expected that the potential fellow is not already receiving funding for conduct of the research proposed. In case during the course of the Fellowship, the fellow feels the need to expand the scope and add greater depth, it is expected that CRY will be informed first about the need for additional funds. Also any other donors reached out to will be informed about the CRY support for the principal work. Requirements for proposals in all languages other than English: Please send by post a three-page proposal (it should include scope, relevance, research, question, conceptual framework, proposed methodology, time frame and required budget) along with a two-page CV, and a sample of related published/ unpublished work. Address for Communication: Documentation Centre, CRY –Child Rights and You, 189 A, Anand Estate, Sane Guruji Marg, Mahalaxmi, Mumbai – 400 011. E-mail your proposal to research at crymail.org Last Date for receipt of application: September 10th 2007. Proposals will be reviewed as they are received.   "Ink runs from the corners of my mouth. There is no happiness like mine. I have been eating poetry" From mrsg at vsnl.com Tue Aug 14 16:39:34 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:39:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... References: <465264.34227.qm@web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c7de63$bc7c74b0$0300a8c0@MRAY> A laudable suggestion by Yousuf to see the Kashmir film jointly both by the supporters and the opponents of the film. But before that why not a similar session of joint reading of 'Satanic Verses' by Salman Rushdie by the supporters and the opponents of the great novel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: ; "sarai list" Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... > > I agree with you - the efforts of stopping a screening > are not right - the group of people who are against > this film are certainly a desparate lot, probably > because no one seems to be listening to them (as > someone among them said "the film rubs salt with their > wounds"). But someone needs to take an initiative to > create a congenial atmosphere where they can probably > be invited formally for a screening and a discussion. > > Why don't we make an invitation right on this forum > (or Sarai-list etc.) to the group of people who are > against the film, to come and join us for a "peaceful" > screening and a more civilized debate where issues can > be discussed in a more friendly and fruitful manner. > And let us see how is the response. I think some of > those protesting against the film did say on the Sarai > list that they are NOT against the showing of the > film. So let us start an online poll or petition > (primarily for those against the film) to find whether > they are seriously interested in a healthy screening > and dialogue or not. It may be of benefit to everyone. > > > > > --- Saba Dewan wrote: > >> Dear Yousuf, >> >> I agree with you that we need to hear out and >> respond to the best of our >> abilities peoples' objections to our film. However I >> do think that you are >> blurring the boundaries between people's right to >> protest against a >> film/painting/book they find offensive and their >> mode of protest. Few film >> makers would have a problem about letting people in >> to a screening and >> engaging with them in a critical debate - AFTER THE >> FILM IS OVER. Come and >> watch my film, rip it apart if you must post >> screening and if even then if >> it continues to rankle go ahead and put your point >> of view across in as many >> public foras as you can. Write, paint, make a film >> or just talk to other >> like minded people and come up with ways of >> democratic protest. Whether I >> agree or not with your point of view I have no >> problems with this at all . >> >> But if on the other hand you choose to protest by >> wanting to disrupt the >> screening of a film (and in most cases succeeding) - >> how democratic is that >> ? As I see it this amounts to violating freedom of >> expression along with a >> bankruptcy of an alternate point of view. The irony >> is that in most cases >> people who come baying for stopping a film have >> actually not even seen it >> for themselves. What kind of debate is possible in >> such a scenario? And >> whose freedom of expression is to be protected here >> ? >> >> Cheers >> >> Saba >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From mayur.suresh at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 17:05:11 2007 From: mayur.suresh at gmail.com (Mayur) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:05:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Author(iz)ing Yoga: Discussion this Friday, 17th August In-Reply-To: <98bea7e00708140432t68e3ca85tdc24acbbc4938038@mail.gmail.com> References: <98bea7e00708140432t68e3ca85tdc24acbbc4938038@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4def3c470708140435s4933476elc11455f6a4640dfd@mail.gmail.com> Please join us this Friday, 17th August, 2007, for a discussion led by Allison Fish in Intellectual Property and Yoga. The discussion will begin at 5:30 pm at the (Old) ALF office, at 122/4 Infantry Road, Opposite Infantry Wedding House. A brief abstract of the presentation is given below. Hope to see you all this friday Mayur * Author(iz)ing Yoga* Issues surrounding the protection and exploitation of traditional knowledge through intellectual property rights (IPR) are increasingly debated and the legal frameworks developing in response will have wide ranging impacts. One such strategy, a project initiated and funded by the Indian central government, is the Traditional Knowledge Digital Library (TKDL). The discussion this Friday at ALF will explore the unfolding of the TKDL with a focus on the section of the library that intends to document yogic knowledge and practices. The talk will begin with an overview of how the practice of yoga has become a highly profitable global commercial industry and how this phenomenon provides a space for the innovative application and experimentation with traditional IP management tools by different parties. As part of this discussion I am interested in those experiments that are successful and produce valid IP claims. However, I want to be clear here that I am also, if not primarily, interested in the novel and untested proprietary claims that have a good possibility of failure or the potential to produce unanticipated effects. In analyzing these unintended effects, unanticipated consequences, and failures I look to the work of Hugh Raffles (2002), Anna Tsing (2004), Kim Fortun (2003), Rosemary Coombe (1998), Julia Elyachar (2005), Bill Maurer (2005), Adriana Petryna (2002), and Cori Hayden (2003). The talk will begin by introducing the concept of commercial yoga and explore how it; 1. Has arisen from modern and transnational variants of the practice beginning in the mid-20th century, 2. Has emerged in the legal and ethical framework of global capitalism, 3. Has developed into a valuable, competitive market commodity where rival actors secure financial interests through novel application of traditional IP claims, and 4. These events have caused the Indian state to respond, through the inclusion of yoga into the TKDL, to what it claims is the continued piracy of its national-cultural heritage, In charting this flow, the talk will address how yoga, as a controversial entity, has provided the impetus for different actors to develop tools to convert this distinctive type of information-knowledge into a manageable and proprietary object. Moreover, on a broad theoretical level, the discussion will address how taking commercial yoga seriously contributes to new directions in both socio-legal and anthropological knowledge making ventures. From mrsg at vsnl.com Tue Aug 14 17:15:48 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:15:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Some information about Kashmir References: <465264.34227.qm@web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c7de68$c89f0be0$feba41db@MRAY> 1.What is called Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) was just the kingdom of a specific dynasty. J&K is not Kashmir at all. 2. J&K is a large kingdom with totally separate regions like Baltistan, Gilgit, Hunza, Kashmir Valley, Jammu, Ladakh, Poonch, Kistwar and other some areas. Kashmir valley, the homeland of the Kashmiris is a small part of J&K, hardly 20% of J&K. Each region has separate language, culture and three major religion Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism followed in different areas 3. Islamic Residents of this tiny part of J&K want to grab the whole area in the name of liberation of Kashmir which is nothing but suppression of right of self determination of other people. 4. Kashmiris can only demand azadi for their small valley only. 5. Kasmiri is an official language under Indian Constitution. Though Kashmir has no Urdu-speaking region. but in Kashmir, like Pakistan, official language is Urdu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: ; "sarai list" Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... > > I agree with you - the efforts of stopping a screening > are not right - the group of people who are against > this film are certainly a desparate lot, probably > because no one seems to be listening to them (as > someone among them said "the film rubs salt with their > wounds"). But someone needs to take an initiative to > create a congenial atmosphere where they can probably > be invited formally for a screening and a discussion. > > Why don't we make an invitation right on this forum > (or Sarai-list etc.) to the group of people who are > against the film, to come and join us for a "peaceful" > screening and a more civilized debate where issues can > be discussed in a more friendly and fruitful manner. > And let us see how is the response. I think some of > those protesting against the film did say on the Sarai > list that they are NOT against the showing of the > film. So let us start an online poll or petition > (primarily for those against the film) to find whether > they are seriously interested in a healthy screening > and dialogue or not. It may be of benefit to everyone. > > > > > --- Saba Dewan wrote: > >> Dear Yousuf, >> >> I agree with you that we need to hear out and >> respond to the best of our >> abilities peoples' objections to our film. However I >> do think that you are >> blurring the boundaries between people's right to >> protest against a >> film/painting/book they find offensive and their >> mode of protest. Few film >> makers would have a problem about letting people in >> to a screening and >> engaging with them in a critical debate - AFTER THE >> FILM IS OVER. Come and >> watch my film, rip it apart if you must post >> screening and if even then if >> it continues to rankle go ahead and put your point >> of view across in as many >> public foras as you can. Write, paint, make a film >> or just talk to other >> like minded people and come up with ways of >> democratic protest. Whether I >> agree or not with your point of view I have no >> problems with this at all . >> >> But if on the other hand you choose to protest by >> wanting to disrupt the >> screening of a film (and in most cases succeeding) - >> how democratic is that >> ? As I see it this amounts to violating freedom of >> expression along with a >> bankruptcy of an alternate point of view. The irony >> is that in most cases >> people who come baying for stopping a film have >> actually not even seen it >> for themselves. What kind of debate is possible in >> such a scenario? And >> whose freedom of expression is to be protected here >> ? >> >> Cheers >> >> Saba >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been >> removed] >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 17:32:01 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:32:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... In-Reply-To: <002c01c7de63$bc7c74b0$0300a8c0@MRAY> References: <465264.34227.qm@web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <002c01c7de63$bc7c74b0$0300a8c0@MRAY> Message-ID: <13df7c120708140502r55d016a9p8a6b513320f16f70@mail.gmail.com> Ana whosoever said that those against the movie are desperate lot is laughable because it is them whose mails are going up and down to make movie see the light of the day. On 8/14/07, MRSG wrote: > > A laudable suggestion by Yousuf to see the Kashmir film jointly both by > the > supporters and the opponents of the film. But before that why not a > similar > session of joint reading of 'Satanic Verses' by Salman Rushdie by the > supporters and the opponents of the great novel. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yousuf" > To: ; "sarai list" > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [vikalp] Our response to... > > > > > > I agree with you - the efforts of stopping a screening > > are not right - the group of people who are against > > this film are certainly a desparate lot, probably > > because no one seems to be listening to them (as > > someone among them said "the film rubs salt with their > > wounds"). But someone needs to take an initiative to > > create a congenial atmosphere where they can probably > > be invited formally for a screening and a discussion. > > > > Why don't we make an invitation right on this forum > > (or Sarai-list etc.) to the group of people who are > > against the film, to come and join us for a "peaceful" > > screening and a more civilized debate where issues can > > be discussed in a more friendly and fruitful manner. > > And let us see how is the response. I think some of > > those protesting against the film did say on the Sarai > > list that they are NOT against the showing of the > > film. So let us start an online poll or petition > > (primarily for those against the film) to find whether > > they are seriously interested in a healthy screening > > and dialogue or not. It may be of benefit to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > --- Saba Dewan wrote: > > > >> Dear Yousuf, > >> > >> I agree with you that we need to hear out and > >> respond to the best of our > >> abilities peoples' objections to our film. However I > >> do think that you are > >> blurring the boundaries between people's right to > >> protest against a > >> film/painting/book they find offensive and their > >> mode of protest. Few film > >> makers would have a problem about letting people in > >> to a screening and > >> engaging with them in a critical debate - AFTER THE > >> FILM IS OVER. Come and > >> watch my film, rip it apart if you must post > >> screening and if even then if > >> it continues to rankle go ahead and put your point > >> of view across in as many > >> public foras as you can. Write, paint, make a film > >> or just talk to other > >> like minded people and come up with ways of > >> democratic protest. Whether I > >> agree or not with your point of view I have no > >> problems with this at all . > >> > >> But if on the other hand you choose to protest by > >> wanting to disrupt the > >> screening of a film (and in most cases succeeding) - > >> how democratic is that > >> ? As I see it this amounts to violating freedom of > >> expression along with a > >> bankruptcy of an alternate point of view. The irony > >> is that in most cases > >> people who come baying for stopping a film have > >> actually not even seen it > >> for themselves. What kind of debate is possible in > >> such a scenario? And > >> whose freedom of expression is to be protected here > >> ? > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Saba > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > >> removed] > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rehanhasanansari at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 20:42:43 2007 From: rehanhasanansari at yahoo.com (rehan ansari) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Diary of a border crosser Message-ID: <882459.63841.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Full Story can be found at http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1115374 The diary of a border crosser Three weeks ago I took a flight from Delhi to Lahore, and I thought about the 60 times I must have taken that flight in the last 15 years --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From sananth99 at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 19:29:31 2007 From: sananth99 at gmail.com (Ananth) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:29:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The World's Largest Private Mercenary Company Message-ID: <37BA07A1-C7B5-4B10-A1FA-8F5A0DC1E44E@gmail.com> August 13, 2007 Flush with Profits from the Iraq War, Military Contractors See a World of Business Opportunities The Mercenary Revolution By JEREMY SCAHILL http://www.counterpunch.org/scahill08132007.html If you think the U.S. has only 160,000 troops in Iraq, think again. With almost no congressional oversight and even less public awareness, the Bush administration has more than doubled the size of the U.S. occupation through the use of private war companies. There are now almost 200,000 private "contractors" deployed in Iraq by Washington. This means that U.S. military forces in Iraq are now outsized by a coalition of billing corporations whose actions go largely unmonitored and whose crimes are virtually unpunished. In essence, the Bush administration has created a shadow army that can be used to wage wars unpopular with the American public but extremely profitable for a few unaccountable private companies. Since the launch of the "global war on terror," the administration has systematically funneled billions of dollars in public money to corporations like Blackwater USA , DynCorp, Triple Canopy, Erinys and ArmorGroup. They have in turn used their lucrative government pay- outs to build up the infrastructure and reach of private armies so powerful that they rival or outgun some nation's militaries. "I think it's extraordinarily dangerous when a nation begins to outsource its monopoly on the use of force and the use of violence in support of its foreign policy or national security objectives," says veteran U.S. Diplomat Joe Wilson, who served as the last U.S. ambassador to Iraq before the 1991 Gulf War. The billions of dollars being doled out to these companies, Wilson argues, "makes of them a very powerful interest group within the American body politic and an interest group that is in fact armed. And the question will arise at some time: to whom do they owe their loyalty?" Precise data on the extent of U.S. spending on mercenary services is nearly impossible to obtain - by both journalists and elected officials-but some in Congress estimate that up to 40 cents of every tax dollar spent on the war goes to corporate war contractors. At present, the United States spends about $2 billion a week on its Iraq operations. While much has been made of the Bush administration's "failure" to build international consensus for the invasion of Iraq, perhaps that was never the intention. When U.S. tanks rolled into Iraq in March 2003, they brought with them the largest army of "private contractors" ever deployed in a war. The White House substituted international diplomacy with lucrative war contracts and a coalition of willing nations who provided token forces with a coalition of billing corporations that supplied the brigades of contractors. 'THERE'S NO DEMOCRATIC CONTROL' During the 1991 Gulf War, the ratio of troops to private contractors was about 60 to 1. Today, it is the contractors who outnumber U.S. forces in Iraq. As of July 2007, there were more than 630 war contracting companies working in Iraq for the United States. Composed of some 180,000 individual personnel drawn from more than 100 countries, the army of contractors surpasses the official U.S. military presence of 160,000 troops. In all, the United States may have as many as 400,000 personnel occupying Iraq, not including allied nations' militaries. The statistics on contractors do not account for all armed contractors. Last year, a U.S. government report estimated there were 48,000 people working for more than 170 private military companies in Iraq. "It masks the true level of American involvement," says Ambassador Wilson. How much money is being spent just on mercenaries remains largely classified. Congressional sources estimate the United States has spent at least $6 billion in Iraq, while Britain has spent some $400 million. At the same time, companies chosen by the White House for rebuilding projects in Iraq have spent huge sums in reconstruction funds - possibly billions on more mercenaries to guard their personnel and projects. The single largest U.S. contract for private security in Iraq was a $293 million payment to the British firm Aegis Defence Services, headed by retired British Lt. Col. Tim Spicer, who has been dogged by accusations that he is a mercenary because of his private involvement in African conflicts. The Texas-based DynCorp International has been another big winner, with more than $1 billion in contracts to provide personnel to train Iraqi police forces, while Blackwater USA has won $750 million in State Department contracts alone for "diplomatic security." At present, an American or a British Special Forces veteran working for a private security company in Iraq can make $650 a day. At times the rate has reached $1,000 a day; the pay dwarfs many times over that of active duty troops operating in the war zone wearing a U.S. or U.K. flag on their shoulder instead of a corporate logo. "We got [tens of thousands of] contractors over there, some of them making more than the Secretary of Defense," House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman John Murtha (D-Penn.) recently remarked. "How in the hell do you justify that?" In part, these contractors do mundane jobs that traditionally have been performed by soldiers. Some require no military training, but involve deadly occupations, such as driving trucks through insurgent-controlled territory. Others are more innocuous, like cooking food or doing laundry on a base, but still court grave risk because of regular mortar and rocket attacks. These services are provided through companies like KBR and Fluor and through their vast labyrinth of subcontractors. But many other private personnel are also engaged in armed combat and "security" operations. They interrogate prisoners, gather intelligence, operate rendition flights, protect senior occupation officials and, in at least one case, have commanded U.S. and international troops in battle. In a revealing admission, Gen. David Petraeus, who is overseeing Bush's troop "surge," said earlier this year that he has, at times, been guarded in Iraq by "contract security." At least three U.S. commanding generals, not including Petraeus, are currently being guarded in Iraq by hired guns. "To have half of your army be contractors, I don't know that there's a precedent for that," says Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), a member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which has been investigating war contractors. "Maybe the precedent was the British and the Hessians in the American Revolution. Maybe that's the last time and needless to say, they lost. But I'm thinking that there's no democratic control and there's no intention to have democratic control here." The implications are devastating. Joseph Wilson says, "In the absence of international consensus, the current Bush administration relied on a coalition of what I call the co-opted, the corrupted and the coerced: those who benefited financially from their involvement, those who benefited politically from their involvement and those few who determined that their relationship with the United States was more important than their relationship with anybody else. And that's a real problem because there is no underlying international legitimacy that sustains us throughout this action that we've taken." Moreover, this revolution means the United States no longer needs to rely on its own citizens to fight its wars, nor does it need to implement a draft, which would have made the Iraq war politically untenable. 'AN ARM OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION' During his confirmation hearings in the Senate this past January, Petraeus praised the role of private forces, claiming they compensate for an overstretched military. Petraeus told the senators that combined with Bush's official troop surge, the "tens of thousands of contract security forces give me the reason to believe that we can accomplish the mission." Taken together with Petraeus's recent assertion that the surge would run into mid-2009, this means a widening role for mercenaries and other private forces in Iraq is clearly on the table for the foreseeable future. "The increasing use of contractors, private forces or as some would say 'mercenaries' makes wars easier to begin and to fight - it just takes money and not the citizenry," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, whose organization has sued private contractors for alleged human rights violations in Iraq. "To the extent a population is called upon to go to war, there is resistance, a necessary resistance to prevent wars of self- aggrandizement, foolish wars and in the case of the United States, hegemonic imperialist wars. Private forces are almost a necessity for a United States bent on retaining its declining empire. Think about Rome and its increasing need for mercenaries." Privatized forces are also politically expedient for many governments. Their casualties go uncounted, their actions largely unmonitored and their crimes unpunished. Indeed, four years into the occupation, there is no effective system of oversight or accountability governing contractors and their operations, nor is there any effective law - military or civilian being applied to their activities. They have not been subjected to military courts martial (despite a recent congressional attempt to place them under the Uniform Code of Military Justice), nor have they been prosecuted in U.S. civilian courts. And no matter what their acts in Iraq, they cannot be prosecuted in Iraqi courts because in 2004 the U.S. occupying authority granted them complete immunity. "These private contractors are really an arm of the administration and its policies," argues Kucinich, who has called for a withdrawal of all U.S. contractors from Iraq. "They charge whatever they want with impunity. There's no accountability as to how many people they have, as to what their activities are." That raises the crucial question: what exactly are they doing in Iraq in the name of the U.S. and U.K. governments? Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D- Ill.), a leading member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence, which is responsible for reviewing sensitive national security issues, explained the difficulty of monitoring private military companies on the U.S. payroll: "If I want to see a contract, I have to go up to a secret room and look at it, can't take any notes, can't take any notes out with me, you know - essentially, I don't have access to those contracts and even if I did, I couldn't tell anybody about it." 'A MARKETPLACE FOR WARFARE' On the Internet, numerous videos have spread virally, showing what appear to be foreign mercenaries using Iraqis as target practice, much to the embarrassment of the firms involved. Despite these incidents and the tens of thousands of contractors passing through Iraq, only two individuals have been ever indicted for crimes there. One was charged with stabbing a fellow contractor, while the other pled guilty to possessing child-pornography images on his computer at Abu Ghraib prison. Dozens of American soldiers have been court-martialed - 64 on murder- related charges alone - but not a single armed contractor has been prosecuted for a crime against an Iraqi. In some cases, where contractors were alleged to have been involved in crimes or deadly incidents, their companies whisked them out of Iraq to safety. U.S. contractors in Iraq reportedly have their own motto: "What happens here today, stays here today." International diplomats say Iraq has demonstrated a new U.S. model for waging war; one which poses a creeping threat to global order. "To outsource security-related, military related issues to non- government, non-military forces is a source of great concern and it caught many governments unprepared," says Hans von Sponeck, a 32-year veteran U.N. diplomat, who served as head of the U.N. Iraq mission before the U.S. invasion. In Iraq, the United States has used its private sector allies to build up armies of mercenaries many lured from impoverished countries with the promise of greater salaries than their home militaries can pay. That the home governments of some of these private warriors are opposed to the war itself is of little consequence. "Have gun, will fight for paycheck" has become a globalized law. "The most worrying aspect is that these forces are outside parliamentary control. They come from all over and they are answerable to no one except a very narrow group of people and they come from countries whose governments may not even know in detail that they have actually been contracted as a private army into a war zone," says von Sponeck. "If you have now a marketplace for warfare, it is a commercial issue rather than a political issue involving a debate in the countries. You are also marginalizing governmental control over whether or not this should take place, should happen and, if so, in what size and shape. It's a very worrying new aspect of international relations. I think it becomes more and more uncontrollable by the countries of supply." In Iraq, for example, hundreds of Chilean mercenaries have been deployed by U.S. companies like Blackwater and Triple Canopy, despite the fact that Chile, as a rotating member of the U.N. Security Council, opposed the invasion and continues to oppose the occupation of Iraq. Some of the Chileans are alleged to have been seasoned veterans of the Pinochet era. "There is nothing new, of course, about the relationship between politics and the economy, but there is something deeply perverse about the privatization of the Iraq War and the utilization of mercenaries," says Chilean sociologist Tito Tricot, a former political prisoner who was tortured under Pinochet's regime. "This externalization of services or outsourcing attempts to lower costs - third world mercenaries are paid less than their counterparts from the developed world - and maximize benefits. In other words, let others fight the war for the Americans. In either case, the Iraqi people do not matter at all." NEW WORLD DISORDER The Iraq war has ushered in a new system. Wealthy nations can recruit the world's poor, from countries that have no direct stake in the conflict, and use them as cannon fodder to conquer weaker nations. This allows the conquering power to hold down domestic casualties - the single-greatest impediment to waging wars like the one in Iraq. Indeed, in Iraq, more than 1,000 contractors working for the U.S. occupation have been killed with another 13,000 wounded. Most are not American citizens, and these numbers are not counted in the official death toll at a time when Americans are increasingly disturbed by casualties. In Iraq, many companies are run by Americans or Britons and have well- trained forces drawn from elite military units for use in sensitive actions or operations. But down the ranks, these forces are filled by Iraqis and third-country nationals. Indeed, some 118,000 of the estimated 180,000 contractors are Iraqis, and many mercenaries are reportedly ill-paid, poorly equipped and barely trained Iraqi nationals. The mercenary industry points to this as a positive: we are giving Iraqis jobs, albeit occupying their own country in the service of a private corporation hired by a hostile invading power. Doug Brooks, the head of the Orwellian named mercenary trade group, the International Peace Operations Association, argued from early on in the occupation, "Museums do not need to be guarded by Abrams tanks when an Iraqi security guard working for a contractor can do the same job for less than one-fiftieth of what it costs to maintain an American soldier. Hiring local guards gives Iraqis a stake in a successful future for their country. They use their pay to support their families and stimulate the economy. Perhaps most significantly, every guard means one less potential guerrilla." In many ways, it is the same corporate model of relying on cheap labor in destitute nations to staff their uber-profitable operations. The giant multinationals also argue they are helping the economy by hiring locals, even if it's at starvation wages. "Donald Rumsfeld's masterstroke, and his most enduring legacy, was to bring the corporate branding revolution of the 1990s into the heart of the most powerful military in the world," says Naomi Klein, whose upcoming book, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, explores these themes. "We have now seen the emergence of the hollow army. Much as with so- called hollow corporations like Nike, billions are spent on military technology and design in rich countries while the manual labor and sweat work of invasion and occupation is increasingly outsourced to contractors who compete with each other to fill the work order for the lowest price. Just as this model breeds rampant abuse in the manufacturing sector - with the big-name brands always able to plead ignorance about the actions of their suppliers-so it does in the military, though with stakes that are immeasurably higher." In the case of Iraq, the U.S. and U.K. governments could give the public perception of a withdrawal of forces and just privatize the occupation. Indeed, shortly after former British Prime Minister Tony Blair announced that he wanted to withdraw 1,600 soldiers from Basra, reports emerged that the British government was considering sending in private security companies to "fill the gap left behind." THE SPY WHO BILLED ME While Iraq currently dominates the headlines, private war and intelligence companies are expanding their already sizable footprint. The U.S. government in particular is now in the midst of the most radical privatization agenda in its history. According to a recent report in Vanity Fair, the government pays contractors as much as the combined taxes paid by everyone in the United States with incomes under $100,000, meaning "more than 90 percent of all taxpayers might as well remit everything they owe directly to [contractors] rather than to the [government]." Some of this outsourcing is happening in sensitive sectors, including the intelligence community. "This is the magnet now. Everything is being attracted to these private companies in terms of individuals and expertise and functions that were normally done by the intelligence community," says former CIA division chief and senior analyst Melvin Goodman. "My major concern is the lack of accountability, the lack of responsibility. The entire industry is essentially out of control. It's outrageous." RJ Hillhouse, a blogger who investigates the clandestine world of private contractors and U.S. intelligence, recently obtained documents from the Office of the Directorate of National Intelligence (DNI) showing that Washington spends some $42 billion annually on private intelligence contractors, up from $17.54 billion in 2000. Currently that spending represents 70 percent of the U.S. intelligence budget going to private companies. Perhaps it is no surprise then that the current head of the DNI is Mike McConnell, the former chair of the board of the Intelligence and National Security Alliance, the private intelligence industry's lobbying arm. Hillhouse also revealed that one of the most sensitive U.S. intelligence documents, the Presidential Daily Briefing, is prepared in part by private companies, despite having the official seal of the U.S. intelligence apparatus. "Let's say a company is frustrated with a government that's hampering its business or business of one of its clients. Introducing and spinning intelligence on that government's suspected collaboration with terrorists would quickly get the White House's attention and could be used to shape national policy," Hillhouse argues. MUTLINATIONAL MERCENARIES Empowered by their new found prominence, mercenary forces are increasing their presence on other battlefields: in Latin America, DynCorp International is operating in Colombia, Bolivia and other countries under the guise of the "war on drugs" - U.S. defense contractors are receiving nearly half the $630 million in U.S. military aid for Colombia; in Africa, mercenaries are deploying in Somalia, Congo and Sudan and increasingly have their sights set on tapping into the hefty U.N. peacekeeping budget (this has been true since at least the early 1990s and probably much earlier). Heavily armed mercenaries were deployed to New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, while proposals are being considered to privatize the U.S. border patrol. Brooks, the private military industry lobbyist, says people should not become "overly obsessed with Iraq," saying his association's "member companies have more personnel working in U.N. and African Union peace operations than all but a handful of countries." Von Sponeck says he believes the use of such companies in warfare should be barred and has harsh words for the institution for which he spent his career working: "The United Nations, including the U.N. Secretary General, should react to this and instead of reacting, they are mute, they are silent." This unprecedented funding of such enterprises, primarily by the U.S. and U.K. governments, means that powers once the exclusive realm of nations are now in the hands of private companies with loyalty only to profits, CEOs and, in the case of public companies, shareholders. And, of course, their client, whoever that may be. CIA-type services, special operations, covert actions and small-scale military and paramilitary forces are now on the world market in a way not seen in modern history. This could allow corporations or nations with cash to spend but no real military power to hire squadrons of heavily armed and well-trained commandos. "It raises very important issues about state and about the very power of state. The one thing the people think of as being in the purview of the government - wholly run and owned by - is the use of military power," says Rep. Jan Schakowsky. "Suddenly you've got a for-profit corporation going around the world that is more powerful than states, can effect regime possibly where they may want to go, that seems to have all the support that it needs from this administration that is also pretty adventurous around the world and operating under the cover of darkness. "It raises questions about democracies, about states, about who influences policy around the globe, about relationships among some countries. Maybe it's their goal to render state coalitions like NATO irrelevant in the future, that they'll be the ones and open to the highest bidder. Who really does determine war and peace around the world?" Jeremy Scahill is author of The New York Times-bestseller "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army.". He is a Puffin Foundation Writing Fellow at the Nation Institute. This article appears in the current issue of The Indypendent newspaper. He can be reached at jeremy(AT)democracynow.org From patwardhan_gauri at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 09:06:44 2007 From: patwardhan_gauri at yahoo.com (gouri) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] 'Beyond Borders' - south asian film festival Message-ID: <407077.1935.qm@web32407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ...call for submissions of short amateru films, and some events/screenings planned in lahore ! pl see their website for details; seems like this some ongoing chakkar.... fwd: Beyond Borders Film Festival 2007 Edit Event Type: Fair/Festival Time: 01:00 PM Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 To Sat, 01 Sep 2007 Venue: Other Fee: Free! Tell a Friend We are inviting you to become part of this exciting adventure at Beyond Borders! www.tvbeyondborders.com/filmfestival BEYOND BORDERS TELEVISION (BBTV) is a South Asian infotainment production company based in Pakistan and India for South Asian audiences across the world. Beyond Borders is headed by award winning journalists/editors Najam Sethi and Jugnu Mohsin who lead outstanding and successful teams at The Friday Times, Good Times and Daily Times, Pakistan. Our aim is to produce highly entertaining, competitive and marketable programs with a shift in the underlying content that is the need of the present times and a major challenge in this venture. The BBTV Film Festival is a show that will enable our team to introduce new talent to audiences across the globe. We are looking for short (up to ten minutes) amateur film submissions at the moment. You can win upto $1000 every week at BBTV Film Festival 2007! This is how the program will work: A panel of independent and respected judges-film critics will select the best five films of the week from the website. These films will be aired on a TV show hosted by a compere across S Asia. The program will be partnered with a leading Pakistani and a leading Indian channel in order to get maximum coverage. Viewers across S Asia will SMS their votes for the best film of the week. Next week, the award will be given to the winner who will be interviewed on the show. Enter your films and become part of South Asia's first ever film festival to be aired on television channels in the region and beyond. Please visit us at: www.tvbeyondborders.com/filmfestival Go to "Submit Film" to enter your films online. Please do not forget to provide a brief description of yourself and a brief synopsis of the film(s). We also encourage filmmakers to mail or drop in a hard copy of their films at the addresses provided on the "Contact Us" page with the required information about themselves and their films. So upload your film NOW or rush it to us by courier or post! We look forward to seeing your films on our show! Thank You! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 14:30:57 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] What about Poll results from POK and Ladakh? (CNN-IBN, DAWN, INDIAN EXPRESS POLL on KASHMIR/INDIA/PAKISTAN) Message-ID: <920029.3726.qm@web57211.mail.re3.yahoo.com> CNN-IBN, DAWN, INDIAN EXPRESS POLL on KASHMIR/INDIA/PAKISTAN What about Poll results from POK and Ladakh? by Kshmendra Kaul Significant geographical areas that seem to have been left out in the Poll are Ladakh and what is called Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) in India. Part of POK is referred to by Pakistan as Azad Kashmir. Contrary to the Indian position, the geographical regions of Gilgit and Baltistan are considered by Pakistan as not being a part of "Disputed Kashmir". Unless there are some unknown developments, Ladakh is very much a part of "disputed Kashmir". Why these exclusions? The Poll loses it's credibility by not presenting viewpoints that encompass all of the disputed "Kashmir". What makes it stranger is that Poll results from Jammu and Srinagar are highlighted in the summaries. One would have thought that such summaries will also be presented from Ladakh, Muzzafarabad, Mirpur, Gilgit etc Is it being suggested that Jammu and Kashmir are disputed areas but Ladakh and POK (including Gilgit and Baltistan) are not? Do the people of Ladakh and POK have no say in the "Kashmir" dispute? What is surprising is that two Indian organisations Indian Express and IBN-CNN have allowed this distorted representation to take place. If it is not by conscious collusion then it certainly is by ignorant enthusiasm. It only serves to strengthen the impression held by many in India that the India's English Media is "more separatist than the separatists". To the credit of DAWN of Pakistan, their reporting of the Poll is very balanced. DAWN covers various topics and areas of common interest and makes no derivative value judgments. In comparison the "Indian" duo of Yogendra Yadav and Sanjay Kumar are obsessively focused on the "Valley" and gleefully highlight aspects of the Poll that will feed the "separatists". Yogendra Yadav and Sanjay Kumar are also woefully unaware of the regions they are commenting upon. The Poll has confined itself to Srinagar and yet the duo call the results as those from the "Valley". They obviously have no idea that Srinagar is only a small part of the "Valley". Using the 2005 Electoral Rolls as a guideline, Srinagar voters account for 0.67mil (22%) out of 3.11mil in all of Kashmir "Valley". So any Poll results out of Srinagar can by no stretch of imagination be called as being representative of the "Valley". Interestingly Srinagar voters are only 11% of the total eligible voters in all of Indian controlled J&K In Jammu 255 people were polled and in Srinagar the number was 226, a ratio of 1:1.13. However, there are 1,058,540 voters in Jammu and 673,648 in Srinagar, a ratio of 1:1.57. The sample sizes chosen from Jammu and Srinagar have some inexplicable and certainly not credible rationale. Similarly, with India's population five times larger than that of Pakistan, the respective sample sizes of 2030 and 1010 are askew and make little sense. --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:55:37 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:25:37 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan India Poll at 60 years Message-ID: <5af37bb0708150225m3be63d16m314dbb9407325c2a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.dawn.com/2007/08/14/top1.htm From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 15:00:26 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:30:26 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] semblance Message-ID: <5af37bb0708150230g674d9a32o2f97fec508c7d642@mail.gmail.com> http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm From meenamenon at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 15:03:49 2007 From: meenamenon at gmail.com (meena menon) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:03:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Mumbai riots and Justice Message-ID: <57ad49a60708150233v16c07256h4c7eef0d794c5a93@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Here is my fifth posting for the Sarai fellowship.Since the last one month, there has been a massive effort by various human rights organisations and other groups to revive the cases of Mumbai riots and implement the Srikrishna Commission's report. The Maharashtra chief minister has decided to create special courts to try the really serious cases of which here are about 36. Of the 894 chargesheets filed in courts, 253 cases are still pending. Below is the story of Farooq Mapkar, a victim and an accused in the riots and his story exemplifies much of how justice was dispensed with after the riots. Best Meena meenamenon at gmail.com Blasts trial ends but riots case yet to begin-- Fifth posting for Sarai fellowship While the historic trial of the serial bomb blasts case in Mumbai on March 12, 1993 has ended with 100 convictions, the trial of Farooq Mapkar, an accused in the Hari Masjid firing case during the Mumbai riots of 1992-93 (before the blasts) is yet to begin. Since 14 years Farooq, both a victim and an accused in the firing, has been running around for justice. Fed up with waiting, 41-year-old Farooq has also filed a writ petition in the Bombay high court demanding the registration of a first information report against the police who shot at people in Hari Masjid. The high court has asked the government to respond and the case will be heard on August 24. Farooq who works as a security guard in a cooperative bank has been trying to get an offence registered against Nikhil Kapse and other policemen responsible for the firing since 14 years in vain. He has approached the high court as a last resort. Farooq was one of those injured when police opened fire at Hari Masjid on the afternoon of January 10, 1993. "We had all gathered for namaz and people were milling around the mosque when the firing took place," Farooq says. He too got a bullet injury in his left shoulder but instead of being taken to the hospital he was put in jail for 15 days. "The bullet was removed on January 27," he recalls after he was let out on bail. The irony does not end there. Farooq is one of the 57 persons accused by the police of mob violence. According to the charge sheet filed by the police in 1994, there was private firing from the mosque and later the mob went to a house one km away and burnt it, killing one man. Shakeel Ahmed of Nirbhay Bano Andolan who is an activist and Mapkar's lawyer said that all the 57 persons were charged with murder too. The case was pending for ten years. "I have already suffered so much," said Mapkar. In 2004 the case was shifted to a fast track court in Sewri where it was finally heard before sessions judge C M Salunkhe. However, Ahmed points out that during the hearing, one of the witnesses Shravan Killari testified in court that he was injured in police firing. However, the court when recording this dropped the word "police". "I objected to this and there were a lot of issues about my intentions. Finally the judge separated Farooq's trial as a result of this," explained Ahmed. He said that this separation of the trial was illegal and the judge issued no directions as to how the trial would proceed in Mapkar's case. Finally on February 4, 2006, the court acquitted most of the people in the case. In the meanwhile some had died and the rest were untraceable and only 30 odd persons were acquitted by the court due to lack of evidence. Even in that judgement no directions were given about Mapkar's case. After an application was made by Ahmed, it took over eight months for the case to come on board. The new judge in July 2007 ordered the police to file a separate charge sheet in Mapkar's case since his trial was separated and now the police have sought time till August end to do so. The Sri Krishna Commission which has produced a voluminous report on the 1992-93 riots in Mumbai has documented the Hari Masjid case in detail. It said that one of the policeman Nikhil Kapse was not justified in opening fire and his conduct was violent. Kapse who has been promoted since then and now works in Economic Offences wing of the Mumbai police, was exonerated in a departmental inquiry and even the Special Task Force (STF) that was set up to look into the riots cases gave him a clean chit. Mapkar says he was not even summoned by the STF to give evidence. In 2001, Ahmed filed a petition in the Supreme Court demanding action against 31 policemen involved in the riots who have been named by the Srikrishna Commission. The case is still going on. The STF closed 1371 cases of riots saying that they were true but undetected. Only eight cases were reopened of the 112 scrutinised by the STF. Ahmed says that the police did not bother to summon witnesses or investigate the cases properly. There were detailed testimonies before the Srikrishna Commission and the police could have used those same witnesses but did not do so. The cases filed against Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray were also withdrawn. A senior policeman R D Tyagi who was arrested in the Suleiman Bakery firing case was later discharged and a petition challenging this is pending in the Bombay high court. The state government has not even appealed against his discharge till now. Mapkar says the case against him is false and the government is just fooling the people when it says it has taken action against the rioters. He wants to go ahead with his own trial. "Let them prove they have a case against me," he said. The Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh and deputy chief minister R R Patil of the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) have said that the state has implemented the Sri Krishna Commission report. It was also an election promise the Congress-NCP made to the voters of the state in 1999. Now faced with a lot of anger, the government is quickly saying there may have been shortcomings and is trying to rectify the damage by setting up special courts. For the victims, justice has come too little too late. Meena From monica.mody at gmail.com Tue Aug 14 22:27:08 2007 From: monica.mody at gmail.com (Monica Mody) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:27:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Open Baithak at The Attic, Thursday August 23rd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4badad3b0708140957t2d640751mafaed8314a888bd4@mail.gmail.com> *"Open Baithak" Performance in Poetry Series* * * *Location: *The Attic, 36 Regal Buildings, New Delhi *Time: *6.30-9 pm, Aug 23, 2007 Thursday After a longish summer break, the Baithak Opens again. Come with the poems you've scribbled in these three hot months and show us what you wrote! For the open reading, sign up starts at 6.30pm. Readings start at 7pm. Each poet gets 5 mins on the mike and is expected to bring in new work every time -- and also to delight the audience by doing risky and innovative things with it. You can read in any language. * * *Contact *Monica Mody for more info: openbaithak at gmail.com * * *Also featuring * *Taru Dalmia aka Delhi Sultanate* * * Taru started rapping at the age of 10 in Europe, engaging in "freestyle battles" on street corners and later in Hip Hop clubs. (A freestyle battle consists of two MCs competing against each other using lyrical assaults, and hence deconstructing each other's persona with improvised rhymes.) At around 15, he began operating a reggae sound system and was heavily influenced by Jamaican artists belonging to the often militantly political Bobo Ashanti branch of Rastafarianism. Today he raps in plain English and in the more rhythmic and expressive reggae style patois, while trying to adapt the reggae and hip hop format to the Indian context. *About Open Baithak:* A new monthly poetry in performance series in Delhi, Open Baithak offers a space for poets to think about new and innovative ways of presenting poetry to audiences, and a test platform for emerging poet performers. It makes a regular meeting place for poets from different linguistic, written and oral traditions. It is also a meeting place for listeners and readers of poetry. It hopes to be a place and a space where together we can make poetry better than the movies. * * *History:* Earlier this year, the British Council Delhi had organized a Spoken Word Series featuring performances and workshops by and Indian poets such as Anjum Hasan, Jeet Thayil, John Hegley, Lemn Sissay, Patience Agbabi and Vivek Narayanan. This culminated in an open mic evening at Sarai, where those of us present felt the necessity for more such spaces, which give an opportunity to poet performers to explore how performance and poetry can be brought together, spaces where words can come alive on the stage through ways and means ranging from music to rhythm to dance and beyond. The first Open Baithak was held at The Attic on May 18, 2007. *Our Sponsor:* We are immensely grateful to the British Council Delhi for giving us the financial support to get the series up and running. * * -- Each Man Is A Poet When He Names His Cat (borrowed) -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From iram at sarai.net Wed Aug 15 16:22:06 2007 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:22:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Fwd: WISCOMP SCHOLAR OF PEACE FELLOWSHIPS 2008 Message-ID: <46C2DAD6.1040908@sarai.net> Subject: Fwd: WISCOMP SCHOLAR OF PEACE FELLOWSHIPS 2008 From: "Taran Khan" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:07:48 +0430 To: "Iram Ghufran" pl circulate widely, tx On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 WISCOMP wrote : >Dear Friend, > >Greetings from WISCOMP! > > >WISCOMP is inviting proposals for the 2008 cycle of the Fellowship >Programme. The Fellowship Programme supports sustained study and research in >South Asia in areas such as human security, conflict transformation and >peace-building, multi-track diplomacy, terrorism, regional cooperation, >human rights, diversity and coexistence et al. Fellowships are awarded under >three categories: academic research, media and special projects. > >We will be grateful if you could communicate this information to potential >candidates and/or nominate any outstanding women and men for us to follow up >with. The application forms for this cycle are available at our website >www.wiscomp.org. > >We will be happy to respond to any queries that you might have. > >Thanks and regards >Stuti Bhatnagar >Junior Program Officer >WISCOMP >Ph: +91-11-24648450 (Extn.112) >E-Mail: wiscomp2006 at gmail.com > > >-- >http://www.wiscomp.org >Women in Security, Conflict Management and Peace (WISCOMP) facilitates >gender-sensitive training, research and praxis in the areas of Conflict >Transformation, Security and Peacebuilding in South Asia. It was established >as part of the efforts of the Foundation for Universal Responsibility of His >Holiness the Dalai Lama to build a culture of coexistence and nonviolence. _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 17:20:20 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] The Mumbai riots and Justice In-Reply-To: <57ad49a60708150233v16c07256h4c7eef0d794c5a93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <234467.1445.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Meena Undoubtedly all criminals should be prosecuted and sentenced. Those marauding mobs involved in the Mumbai riots are criminals just as those are who were involved in the Bomb Blasts. Passions being invoked is no excuse for breaking the Law. (Incidentally I am against the Death Sentence for anyone on any grounds whatsoever) Meena, I am a Kashmiri. Why is it that all the well meaning and humane people like you and NGOs in India are not pursuing with equal dedication and vehemence the killing of innocents in Kashmir? I am a Kashmiri Pandit and my question does not refer only to Kashmiri Pandits shot and hacked and raped but also the many more thousands of Kashmiri Muslims who suffered the same fate at the hands of those animals who presume sanction and justification for their acts in the name of "Religion" or "Freedom"? Wondering. Kshmendra Kaul PS. In no way does the above note seek to justify or excuse illegal/criminal acts indulged in by those who are meant to be "protectors of law" be it the Police or Army or any other Agency. They deserve a stiffer punishment than anyone else. meena menon wrote: Hi all, Here is my fifth posting for the Sarai fellowship.Since the last one month, there has been a massive effort by various human rights organisations and other groups to revive the cases of Mumbai riots and implement the Srikrishna Commission's report. The Maharashtra chief minister has decided to create special courts to try the really serious cases of which here are about 36. Of the 894 chargesheets filed in courts, 253 cases are still pending. Below is the story of Farooq Mapkar, a victim and an accused in the riots and his story exemplifies much of how justice was dispensed with after the riots. Best Meena meenamenon at gmail.com Blasts trial ends but riots case yet to begin-- Fifth posting for Sarai fellowship While the historic trial of the serial bomb blasts case in Mumbai on March 12, 1993 has ended with 100 convictions, the trial of Farooq Mapkar, an accused in the Hari Masjid firing case during the Mumbai riots of 1992-93 (before the blasts) is yet to begin. Since 14 years Farooq, both a victim and an accused in the firing, has been running around for justice. Fed up with waiting, 41-year-old Farooq has also filed a writ petition in the Bombay high court demanding the registration of a first information report against the police who shot at people in Hari Masjid. The high court has asked the government to respond and the case will be heard on August 24. Farooq who works as a security guard in a cooperative bank has been trying to get an offence registered against Nikhil Kapse and other policemen responsible for the firing since 14 years in vain. He has approached the high court as a last resort. Farooq was one of those injured when police opened fire at Hari Masjid on the afternoon of January 10, 1993. "We had all gathered for namaz and people were milling around the mosque when the firing took place," Farooq says. He too got a bullet injury in his left shoulder but instead of being taken to the hospital he was put in jail for 15 days. "The bullet was removed on January 27," he recalls after he was let out on bail. The irony does not end there. Farooq is one of the 57 persons accused by the police of mob violence. According to the charge sheet filed by the police in 1994, there was private firing from the mosque and later the mob went to a house one km away and burnt it, killing one man. Shakeel Ahmed of Nirbhay Bano Andolan who is an activist and Mapkar's lawyer said that all the 57 persons were charged with murder too. The case was pending for ten years. "I have already suffered so much," said Mapkar. In 2004 the case was shifted to a fast track court in Sewri where it was finally heard before sessions judge C M Salunkhe. However, Ahmed points out that during the hearing, one of the witnesses Shravan Killari testified in court that he was injured in police firing. However, the court when recording this dropped the word "police". "I objected to this and there were a lot of issues about my intentions. Finally the judge separated Farooq's trial as a result of this," explained Ahmed. He said that this separation of the trial was illegal and the judge issued no directions as to how the trial would proceed in Mapkar's case. Finally on February 4, 2006, the court acquitted most of the people in the case. In the meanwhile some had died and the rest were untraceable and only 30 odd persons were acquitted by the court due to lack of evidence. Even in that judgement no directions were given about Mapkar's case. After an application was made by Ahmed, it took over eight months for the case to come on board. The new judge in July 2007 ordered the police to file a separate charge sheet in Mapkar's case since his trial was separated and now the police have sought time till August end to do so. The Sri Krishna Commission which has produced a voluminous report on the 1992-93 riots in Mumbai has documented the Hari Masjid case in detail. It said that one of the policeman Nikhil Kapse was not justified in opening fire and his conduct was violent. Kapse who has been promoted since then and now works in Economic Offences wing of the Mumbai police, was exonerated in a departmental inquiry and even the Special Task Force (STF) that was set up to look into the riots cases gave him a clean chit. Mapkar says he was not even summoned by the STF to give evidence. In 2001, Ahmed filed a petition in the Supreme Court demanding action against 31 policemen involved in the riots who have been named by the Srikrishna Commission. The case is still going on. The STF closed 1371 cases of riots saying that they were true but undetected. Only eight cases were reopened of the 112 scrutinised by the STF. Ahmed says that the police did not bother to summon witnesses or investigate the cases properly. There were detailed testimonies before the Srikrishna Commission and the police could have used those same witnesses but did not do so. The cases filed against Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray were also withdrawn. A senior policeman R D Tyagi who was arrested in the Suleiman Bakery firing case was later discharged and a petition challenging this is pending in the Bombay high court. The state government has not even appealed against his discharge till now. Mapkar says the case against him is false and the government is just fooling the people when it says it has taken action against the rioters. He wants to go ahead with his own trial. "Let them prove they have a case against me," he said. The Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh and deputy chief minister R R Patil of the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) have said that the state has implemented the Sri Krishna Commission report. It was also an election promise the Congress-NCP made to the voters of the state in 1999. Now faced with a lot of anger, the government is quickly saying there may have been shortcomings and is trying to rectify the damage by setting up special courts. For the victims, justice has come too little too late. Meena _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From apnawritings at yahoo.co.in Thu Aug 16 13:45:43 2007 From: apnawritings at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:15:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] More on constructing Taslima: Response to Shuddha, and others Message-ID: <73016.1107.qm@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much more) ‘liberal;’ ‘physical violence’, ‘freedom of expression’ and some such others. To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word ‘Liberal’ should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the notion of ‘individual’ freedom through individual rights; secondly, a distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted according to these contours. Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the ‘freedom of expression’ schema, it would be in terms of individual rights of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal standpoint and argue for the ‘freedom of the artist.’ But if you engage a bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of personal rights. ( Now I’m not raising the fatal objection raised once upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also fetters: if you argue against absolute rights or royal privileges, why don’t you argue against rights themselves at some point of time to become ‘really’ free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I’m not going for this; rather I’m summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: an artist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern standpoint. So far so good! Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dear Shuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Attreye puts it so much more sexily “Hindu fundoos.” In other words, the claim of certain “self appointed”( again Shuddha) “cultural police” officers(!) that there has occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities in certain texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the wake of this same kind of furor around the films ‘Water’ and ‘Fire’). The thing that challenges liberal ‘modernity’ in art ( or whatever) in postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but ‘democracy’. This algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I’ll adopt this proposal for application. Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen ( in the absence of representative politics within religious communities they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question of the artists’ answerability or accountability to the communities who tend to have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This belongs to what I call the ‘politics of designation’ ( some call it ‘identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim resembles the form and structure of such a politics. Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. Now, physical violence! I’ve already said elsewhere that the question of toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwed or beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the “armed radical Islamic activists”( not “fundoos”) have not been able to organize the required coercion; it’s a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed than direct physical violence. I discussed in this detail in my posting ( see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder of arguing that because Taslima has not called for “killing”, she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Are all the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or because Marx announced a program of “violent overthrow”, deserved to be killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call to kill. Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic cleric scholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on the Islamic portions of her engagement, she didn’t agree on the “imaginary” grounds that she will be “abused.” Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at times I’m disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting but then I think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers ‘in haste’, I just feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of ‘porn-gurus’; I can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don’t mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; they don’t dare confront what Habermas called ‘the force of the better argument’ but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha’s silence would not rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should keep his level lovely—always at his best. And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was Shuddha at his worst! Thanking you Yours in discourse and debt arnab 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store unlimited mails in your inbox. Go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From monica at sarai.net Thu Aug 16 14:42:55 2007 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:42:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Fwd: HIC: Urgent call to Action: Solidarity with a german activist inhousing and other political prisoners from inhabitants andpeoples' organizations]] Message-ID: <92118452-4A1D-4455-8449-82745F0EB9BF@sarai.net> Now urban researchers can be deemed terrorists, apparently, because they "have not limited their research findings to an ivory tower, but have made their expertise available to citizens’ initiatives and tenants’ organizations." ... -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: HIC: Urgent call to Action: Solidarity with a german activist in housing and other political prisoners from inhabitants and peoples' organizations Datum: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:37:52 -0400 Von: Ana Sugranyes An: hic Postino URGENT CALL TO ACTION: SIGN AND SEND THE OPEN LETTER ATTACHED Source: Knut Unger (email: knut.unger at habitat-netz.de) Colleagues from INURA Berlin (HIC Members) have put together various materials in order to raise international attention and support regarding the case of the 7 persons accused (out of which 4 were jailed) last week in Berlin for alleged suspected 'memberships of a terrorist association'. 3 of these are fellow urban researchers, one of whom, an activist in housing and tenants movements who is currently in jail, has agreed to be named: Andrej Holm, urban sociologist and established researcher on gentrification in Berlin. Please find below a statement in English, which INURA is trying to circulate in academic and related circles in order to build international support. Next week we will try to send more informations and reports about reactions and political background On 31st July 2007 seven persons were charged by the Attorney of the German Federal Supreme Court for alleged suspected 'memberships of a terrorist association'. Four of these have since been in pre-trial confinement in a Berlin jail. Three of the seven accused individuals are fellow urban researchers, one of whom, who is currently in jail, has agreed to be named: Andrej Holm, urban sociologist and established researcher on gentrification in Berlin. An OPEN LETTER hereunder and attached, summarising the background of the case, the arguments used by the Attorney of the German Federal Supreme Court and the demand made by the solidarity movement. Individuals or organisations are invited to demonstrate support by sending protest letters, petitions and declarations to the Attorney of the German Federal Supreme Court, i.e.: Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof c/o Ermittlungsrichter Hebenstreit Herrenstraße 45 D-76133 Karlsruhe Germany and Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof Brauerstraße 30 D-76137 Karlsruhe Germany Fax + 49 7 21 819 14 92 eMail: presse at generalbundesanwalt.de An e-mail address has been set up by the Berlin colleagues who are coordinating action around Andrej Holm and the other accused: it would be helpful if individuals and organisations could send a message to this address to inform the Berlin colleagues about the support action they are taking (solidarity addresses, declarations that are to be published) and address any question they may have: kontaktschuld at so36.net For information, the German lawyer and press contact for the accused, including Andrej Holm, is: Wolfgang Kaleck Immanuelkirchstrasse3-4 D-10405 Berlin Germany Phone: +49-(0)30-4467-9218 Fax: +49-(0)30-4467-9220 In short, the main demands of the solidarity movement are: - Release of the prisoners - Stop the proceedings under § 129a of German penal law - End the § 129, 129a, and 129b laws - Stop criminalizing progressive research and action Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof** c/o Ermittlungsrichter Hebenstreit** Herrenstraße 45** D-76133 Karlsruhe** Germany* Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof* Brauerstraße 30* D-76137 Karlsruhe* Germany* Open letter against the criminalization of critical academic research and political engagement* On 31st July 2007 the flats and workplaces of Dr. Andrej Holm and Dr. Matthias B., as well as of two other persons, were searched by the police. Dr. Andrej Holm was arrested, flown by helicopter to the German Federal Court in Karlsruhe and brought before the custodial judge. Since then he has been held in pretrial confinement in a Berlin jail. All four people have been charged with “membership in a terrorist association according to § 129a StGB” (German Penal Code, section 7 on ‘Crimes against Public Order’). They are alleged to be members of a so-called /‘militante gruppe’ (mg). /The text of the search warrant revealed that preliminary proceedings against these four people have been going on since September 2006 and that the four had since been under constant surveillance. A few hours before the house searches, Florian L., Oliver R. und Axel H. were arrested in the Brandenburg/ /region and accused of attempted arson on four vehicles of the German Federal Army. Andrej Holm is alleged to have met one of these three persons on two occasions in the first half of 2007 in supposedly “conspiratorial circumstances”. The Federal Prosecutor (/Bundesanwaltschaft/) therefore assumes that the four above mentioned persons as well as the three individuals arrested in Brandenburg are members of a “militant group,” and is thus investigating all seven on account of suspected “membership in a terrorist association” according to §129a StGB. According to the arrest warrant against Andrej Holm, the charge made against the above mentioned four individuals is presently justified on the following grounds, in the order that the federal prosecutor has listed them: - Dr. Matthias B. is alleged to have used, in his academic publications, “phrases and key words” which are also used by the ‘/militante gruppe’;/ - As political scientist holding a PhD, Matthias B. is seen to be intellectually capable to “author the sophisticated texts of the ‘/militante gruppe’ (mg)”./ Additionally, “as employee in a research institute he has access to libraries which he can use inconspicuously in order to do the research necessary to the drafting of texts of the /‘militante gruppe’”;/ - Another accused individual is said to have met with suspects in a conspiratorial manner: “meetings were regularly arranged without, however, mentioning place, time and content of the meetings”; furthermore, he is said to have been active in the “extreme left-wing scene”; - In the case of a third accused individual, an address book was found which included the names and addresses of the other three accused; - Dr. Andrej H., who works as urban sociologist, is claimed to have close contacts with all three individuals who have been charged but still remain free; - Dr. Andrej H. is alleged to have been active in the “resistance mounted by the extreme left-wing scene against the World Economic Summit of 2007 in Heiligendamm”; - The fact that he – allegedly intentionally -- did not take his mobile phone with him to a meeting is considered as “conspiratorial behavior”. Andrej H., as well as Florian L., Oliver R. and Axel H., are detained since 1st August 2007 in Berlin-Moabit under very strict conditions: they are locked in solitary confinement 23 hours a day and are allowed only one hour of courtyard walk. Visits are limited to a total of half an hour every two weeks. Contacts, including contacts with lawyers, are allowed only through separation panes. The mail of the defense is checked. The charges described in the arrest warrants reveal a construct based on very dubious reasoning by analogy. The reasoning involves four basic hypotheses, none of which the Federal High Court could substantiate with any concrete evidence, but through their combination they are to leave the impression of a “terrorist association”. The social scientists, because of their academic research activity, their intellectual capacities and their access to libraries, are said to be the brains of the alleged “terrorist organization”. For, according to the Federal prosecutor, an association called /“militante gruppe”/ is said to use the same concepts as the accused social scientists. As evidence for this reasoning, the concept of “gentrification” is named - one of the key research themes of Andrej Holm und Matthias B. in past years, about which they have published internationally. They have not limited their research findings to an ivory tower, but have made their expertise available to citizens’ initiatives and tenants’ organizations.* This is how critical social scientists are constructed as intellectual gang leaders.* Since Andrej Holm has friends, relatives and colleagues, they now also are suspect to be “terrorists”, because they know Andrej. Another accused individual was blamed for having the names of Andrej Holm and of two others charged (but not jailed) in his address book. Since the latter are also deemed to be “terrorists” – *this is how “guilt by association” is established.* Paragraph § 129a, introduced in Germany in 1976, makes it possible for our colleagues to be criminalized as “terrorists”. *This is how, through § 129a, the existence of a “terrorist group” is claimed.* Through these constructs, every academic research activity and political work is presented as potentially criminal – in particular when politically engaged colleagues who intervene in social struggles are concerned. *This is how critical research, in particular research linked with political engagement, is turned into ideological ring leadership and “terrorism”.* We demand that the Federal Prosecutor (/Bundesanwaltschaft/) immediately suspend the *§ *129a-proceedings against all parties concerned and release Andrej Holm and the other imprisoned from jail at once. We strongly reject the outrageous accusation that the academic research activities and the political engagement of Andrej Holm are to be viewed as complicity in an alleged “terrorist association”. No arrest warrant can be deduced from the academic research and political work of Andrej Holm. The Federal Prosecutor, through applying Article § 129, is threatening the freedom of research and teaching as well as social-political engagement. Signature(s) Date From sunil at mahiti.org Thu Aug 16 18:05:27 2007 From: sunil at mahiti.org (Sunil Abraham) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:05:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] OII Call for Applications from Civil Society Practitioners in the global South Message-ID: <1187267728.5654.7.camel@localhost> -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Jennifer A. De Beer Oxford Internet Institute - Civil Society Practitioners Programme Invitation to apply The Oxford Internet Institute (University of Oxford) invites applications from the global South to fill two places in its Civil Society Practitioners Programme. This visitor programme is intended for Civil Society Practitioners of distinction or outstanding promise who wish to visit the Institute for a period of six weeks between February and December 2008, to undertake research concerning the social impact of the Internet and related ICTs. Visitors are expected to reside in Oxford during their stay, and to participate fully in the intellectual life of the Institute. The successful applicants will receive: * A subsistence allowance of 3800 GBP (7500 USD) to cover research expenses and living costs during their stay in Oxford * A travel grant of up to 1000 GBP (2000 USD) for travel to and from the UK Applications will ideally be submitted by Civil Society Practitioners in or from the global South, active in the areas of freedom of expression, media reform, media justice, and communications and information policy in the globalized context of the Internet. How to apply For details on how to apply, please download: Information for Applicants (PDF, 45kb) at http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/CSPP_Application_Information.pdf You may also request to have this information emailed to you in plain text form. The deadline for completed applications to reach the OII Academic and Student Affairs Officer (by post or email: contact details below) is 26 September 2007. Please note that incomplete applications cannot be considered. Final notification of an award will occur in November 2007. Successful candidates will be expected to take up their six week residency in Oxford at any time between February and December 2008. Contact Laura Taylor Academic and Student Affairs Officer Oxford Internet Institute University of Oxford 1 St Giles, Oxford OX1 3JS United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1865 287222 Fax: +44 (0)1865 287211 Email: recruit at oii.ox.ac.uk This programme has been made possible through funding by the Ford Foundation. This Call for Applications is also available at: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/microsites/cspp/ From onlysocio at yahoo.co.in Thu Aug 16 19:59:57 2007 From: onlysocio at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:29:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata, Anjalika & others Message-ID: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much more) ‘liberal;’ ‘physical violence’, ‘freedom of expression’ and some such others. To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word ‘Liberal’ should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the notion of ‘individual’ freedom through individual rights; secondly, a distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted according to these contours. Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the ‘freedom of expression’ schema, it would be in terms of individual rights of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal standpoint and argue for the ‘freedom of the artist.’ But if you engage a bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of personal rights. ( Now I’m not raising the fatal objection raised once upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also fetters: if you argue against absolute rights or royal privileges, why don’t you argue against rights themselves at some point of time to become ‘really’ free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I’m not going for this; rather I’m summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: an artist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern standpoint. So far so good! Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dear Shuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Anjalika puts it so much more sexily "Hindu fundoos." In other words, the claim of certain "self appointed"( again Shuddha) "cultural police" officers(!) that there has occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities in certain texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the wake of this same kind of furor around the films ‘Water’ and ‘Fire’). The thing that challenges liberal ‘modernity’ in art ( or whatever) in postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but ‘democracy’. This algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I’ll adopt this proposal for application. Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen ( in the absence of representative politics within religious communities they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question of the artists’ answerability or accountability to the communities who tend to have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This belongs to what I call the ‘politics of designation’ ( some call it ‘identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim resembles the form and structure of such a politics. Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. Now, physical violence! I’ve already said elsewhere that the question of toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwed or beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the "armed radical Islamic activists"( not "fundoos") have not been able to organize the required coercion; it’s a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed than direct physical violence. I discussed this in detail in my posting ( see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder of arguing that because Taslima has not called for "killing", she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Are all the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or because Marx announced a program of "violent overthrow", deserved to be killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call to kill. Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic cleric scholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on the Islamic portions of her engagement, she didn’t agree on the "imaginary" grounds that she will be "abused." Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at times I’m disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting but then I think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers ‘in haste’, I just feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of ‘porn-gurus’; I can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don’t mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; they don’t dare confront what Habermas called ‘the force of the better argument’ but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha’s silence would not rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should keep his level lovely—always at his best. And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was Shuddha at his worst! Thanking you Yours in discourse and debt arnab --------------------------------- Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now From image.science at donau-uni.ac.at Thu Aug 16 23:43:20 2007 From: image.science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:13:20 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] CALL FOR PAPERS : GAZING INTO THE 21st CENTURY Message-ID: <46C4AFE00200007D00003C67@gwgwia.donau-uni.ac.at> GAZING INTO THE 21st CENTURY : CONFRONTING IMAGE NAIVETÉ Second international conference on Image Science in Goettweig April 24th - 26th 2008 www.donau-uni.ac.at/dis The DEPARTMENT FOR IMAGE SCIENCE (DIS) at DANUBE UNIVERSITY is pleased to announce the second international Goettweig conference on Image Science. Never before has the world of images changed so fast, have we been exposed to so many different image forms and never before has the way images are produced transformed so drastically. Images are advancing into new domains: Television became a global zapping field of thousands of channels; projection screens enter our cities, and cell phones transmit micromovies in real time. We are witnessing the rise of the image into a virtual spatial image. Science, politics and entertainment profit from new dimensions in the creation of images and their emotive effects. Since the 60s, the arts and sciences are connected through the fundamental research that media art undertakes, a research whose roots lie in partially unknown traditions. A multitude of new possibilities in producing, projecting and distributing individual images has led to the formation of new image genres. The spiral movement of image history from innovation, understanding and iconoclasm results in the 21st Century in a global interweaving. These major transformations have hit society to a large extent unprepared and as we gradually start to recognize the demand to address the current knowledge explosion appropriately, we face the challenge to expand our forms of visualization, our “orders and systems of visibility”, and to reflect critically and scientifically on them. While our written culture has produced a differentiated and dedicated paedagogy, our society still lacks a conscious education concerning images - up to a degree that we can speak of visual illiteracy. A central problem of current cultural policy, aside from poor knowledge on image procedures, stems from serious lack of knowledge about the origins of the audiovisual media. This stands in complete contradistinction to current demands for more media and image competence. The conference therefore explores the thinking space and the utopias, which were initiated by artists again and again - now on the expanded terrain of image science - and searches for the inspirations these new worlds receive from the arts. What influence does the medium have on the iconic character of the image? What chances and challenges do museums and image dealers face with the “liquidity” of the image? The interdisciplinary conference aims to step up to the challenge of building a “visual inventory”. One goal of the conference therefore is to build cross disciplinary exchange between the Humanities AND the Natural Sciences. PROPOSALS are welcome to the following topics and fields: NEW IMAGE FORMS AND TECHNIQUES (New visualization techniques in Nano-, Bio-, Neurosciences, Architecture, Photography, Digital Collections Management, etc.) NEW STRATEGIES IN VISUAL ARGUMENTATION (in the Arts, Sciences and Humanities, Politics, Advertising, Comics, Diagrams & Models, Visual Music, etc.) NEW PRACTICES OF IMAGE TRANSFER (Global economy, Tagging, Micromovies, Flickr, Second Life, You Tube, Google Earth etc.) DEADLINE PROPOSALS : October 21st 2007 Conference Languages: German/English. PAPERS One-page abstract or complete paper must be submitted by email. Upon acceptance, complete papers must be submitted by March 21, 2008 as PDF to andrea.kaufmann at donau-uni.ac.at. All rights will remain with the author. Papers will be selected for presentations. Proposals for panel discussions are encouraged and individual papers may be grouped by the Department for Image Science in panel discussion format. Panel proposals should include names of prospective panelists and topics, which should address the general themes of the symposium. The DEPARTMENT FOR IMAGE SCIENCE is situated near Vienna in the UNESCO World Heritage Wachau, in the Goettweig Monastery. The DIS is housed in part of the fourteenth century castle. It is the platform for the international projects: Database of Virtual Art, Goettweig Database of the Graphic Print Collection, MediaArtHistory.org ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS OF THE DEPARTMENT FOR IMAGE SCIENCE (DIS) AND ITS PROJECTS * DIS * VirtualArt.at * MediaArtHistory.org * Carl, AIGNER (St. Pölten), Roy ASCOTT (Plymouth), Sean CUBITT (Melbourne), Brigitte FELDERER (Wien), Felice FRANKEL (Boston), Beryl GRAHAM (Newcastle), Erkki HUHTAMO (Los Angeles), Douglas KAHN (Davis/California), Martin KEMP (Oxford), Harald KRÄMER (Bern), Machiko KUSAHARA (Tokyo), Jorge LAFERLA (Buenos Aires), Timothy LENIOR (Duke), Gunalan NADARAJAN (Penn State), Christiane PAUL (New York), Götz POCHAT (Graz), Martin ROTH (Dresden), Wolf SINGER (Frankfurt), Christa SOMMERER (Linz), Paul THOMAS (Western Australia), Wolfgang WELSCH (Jena), STEVE WILSON (San Francisco) * * * www.donau-uni.ac.at/dbw/bildtage From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Aug 17 08:05:36 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:05:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad I Message-ID: <46C50978.9060003@sarai.net> Dear all, I would like to begin by thanking those of you (especially Arnab, Atreyee, Kshmendra, Anjalika) who responded to my post on the attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad, as well as Yogi Sikand for posting additional material on other responses (by C.M. Naim, and Firiz Bakht Ahmed)to the same attack. I think some very important questions have been raised by Arnab and Atreyee, and some flippant and not so flippant charges have been made in some of the other correspondence. Forgive me for asking you to be patient as I respond to each of these in turn, not 'to clear the clouds' because I am not at all ready to play the role of the 'cloud clearer', and claim for myself, (contrary to Anjalika's assertion) no authority or expertise in the matters at hand. (and that seems to be part of the problem, as I hope to demonstrate immediately). I am not a card carrying member of the Rationalist Society of India, though I retain a certain admiration for the eccentric excesses of one Dr. Abraham Kovoor, so I cannot by any means admit to being the 'self declared' or otherwise 'voice of reason'(as suggested by Kshmendra). Some of the things I believe in, such as a more or less absolute commitment to the idea of freedom of speech, have been deemed highly unreasonable by many reasonable people.It is not a description that I am willing to take exception to. Perhaps it is in fact more, 'unreasonable' and 'illiberal' even immoderate,in some ways, than it is 'reasonable'. Even the length of my responses tonight may well be called unreasonably parrhesic. So be it. And I am not going to try and stretch my politeness too thin. In fact the nature of precisely what (especially what subject position) I can claim for myself in making the remarks I have made is the subject of some debate in this correspondece (and it has been raised by Kshmendra and by Anjalika) and I want to attend to that briefly before I turn towards attempting to respond to the substantive question about the relationship between censorship and editing that Arnab has raised. So here goes, bear with me.I am going to deal first with Kshmendra and Anjalik' remarks, and hopefully try and grapple with some of the questions that Atreyee has raised (about limits) and then (in the next mail) I am going to turn to Arnab's questions.So this response is going to come in two parts, for the sake of reader friendliness. This is part one. Kshmendra wrote: - (and this time I am putting quotation marks before and after each paragraph, just so that no one will make further complaints about the difficulty of closely reading quotation and attribution in a lengthy posting) So first, the problem of who has the right to say things, which Kshmendra alludes to when he asks? K:"How do you categorise yourself Shuddha? Which grouping do you belong to? Your answer would be very interesting...Who does your voice represent Shuddha? Are you the "self appointed" voice of reason while others are "venom" pourers? I see a lot of "venom" in your own words." Venom, yes, maybe. Everyone is free to choose their poison. I choose mine with care. First of all, let me state that I actually refuse to process myself in categorical terms. As of now, it is confirmed that I am a human being, that I am male, nearing forty, that I present an Indian passport when asked to identify myself by immigration officers and that I grew up in Delhi to Bengali migrant non practicing Hindu parents, speaking, reading and writing Bangla, Hindustani and English (in that order). This much, sir and madam, is certain. Now, whom do I represent? Actually, no one. I refuse on ethical, philosophical and political grounds to play the game of representing any 'category' that can be read off the bare facts of gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity or nationality. This does not mean that these categories are not germane to my life, it means that I do not wish to speak on behalf, or be heard as speaking on behalf of the millions of others who share to greater or lesser degree, the accidental and not so accidental constellations of race, gender, nationality, language, ethnicity sexuality, ideology, religion (or lack thereof). This does not mean that there is no such thing as discriminatory or prejudiced, or hateful speech and expression. Of course there is. People abuse and heckle black people, jews, muslims, hindus and queer folk all over the place. But the answer to that cannot be that we ban such expressions in the name of ALL hindus, jews, muslims or martians. How can we ever know what ALL hindus, jews, muslims or martians think. If something offends us, all that I personally think we can ethically do, is to argue against that which offends us. And each person can do so separately, or in cohort with others who feel the same way and say that they feel the same way. But the moment we say that something should be banned, or prevented from being heard or seen without interruption in the name of all the martians in the galaxy, or all the Bengali non practicing Hindus in West Delhi, or all the Muslims that can be fit into a halal meat shop, or all the Kashmiri Pandits in the whole wide world, then we enter into a tricky territory. It means that whenever someone says to me that what they say represents the 'hurt' sentiments of the Indian Hindu, Kashmiri Muslim, Kashmiri Pandit, Dalit, Homosexual, Hetersexual, British Asian or Martian populations that are arrayed behind them in solid phalanges, I am tempted to ask, 'How they are so sure, and what gives the people who say these things to read the minds and interior experiences of others just because they happen to share a demographic bracket with them. How, in other words, does one statistical datum, which is what a Kashmiri Pandit or Hindu Bengali or Hyderabadi Muslim is, know the innermost soul of another stastical datum. I would be able to have a conversation with these worthy people if they said, that 'they' personally, as discrete, private individuals are hurt, have been damaged, or have suffered because of a particular speech act. But imagine, someone calling for Tagore, or Taslima Narsin, or Iqbal or Nagraj Comics being banned because 'x', individual has bad dreams whenever they read 'Teen Kanya'. All that one would have to say to such a person is that they should not expose themselves to contact with that which offends them so. Its like telling a person who has a gluten allergy that they should abstain from stuff that has wheat in it. Now instead, if a person with gluten allerdy decided that no one should eat rotis and modern bread, because they are human beings, and thus all beings who are human like them must be denied roti and modern bread, then we would have a situation similar to what happens when the representatives of the 'offended sentiments' of themselves and unnamed, unnumbered generalized others call for restrictions on speech. If you think you cannot stand to read Taslima Nasrin, go home, dont read her, or, hang around, read her, hear what she has to say, without interruption, and then criticize her or endorse her with as much intelligence and acuity that you can muster. K: "Shuddha, if instead of an Indian citizen you see yourself as a Netizen please be aware that in the cyber space domain also you have only as much freedom as will be "allowed" to you whether by those who run the "servers" or those who arrange the Bits and Bytes." The answer to this question is very simple. I do not think that there is any such thing as a 'Netizen'.The word 'Netizen' does not offer us an adequately realistic description of any person or entity, for any purposes of semantic clarity. It is only a colurful figure of speech. The net is neither above, nor below, nor beside physically lived life. There are people who live some parts of their lives 'online' (as workers, viewers, readers or practitioners) and there are people who do not. Just as as some people have to travel a lot on buses, trains, planes and cargo ships and others do not, but that does not mean that we talk about 'Passengers' as opposed to 'Citizens' as related, existing and valid political and conceptual categories. So all talk of 'netizenship' is only so much cyber-hokum. Not too many people read science fiction, because if they did, then they would have it figured, that the word 'Cyberspace', which is spoken of loosely as if it were a volcanic island republic off the coast of California with enclave colonies in Bangalore and Gurgaon, was originally qualified by the author (William Gibson) who coined the term in the novel called 'Neurmancer' as a 'consensual hallucination'. I see no reason as to why I should debate the nuances of a hallucination without having a few hallucinongens. Unless Kshmendra (namesake of the eleventh century Kashmiri poet and philosopher whom I really admire for the pornographic delicacy of 'Narma-Mala' his Sanskrit satyricon is mainlining a chemical substance that I would love to, but am currently unable to, get my hands on.) As for how much "freedom" system administrators would, could or should allow - these are highly technical questions. But suffice to say, that I would expect a competent system administrator to protect the servers he or she administers from hack attacks that damages or corrupts the data under his or her custody, insulate his/her users from spam attacks by mailbots (robots). None of these by any stretch of imagination is a regulation on the freedom of speech. We have at present in India a bad set of laws which I think deliberately confuse the tecnical function of system administration with the subjective matter of content regulation, and the above K:"What you might want to consider is that there is no such animal as "unbridled freedom". The foundations of "free" organised societies are "regulated freedoms". Freedom without any curbs on expression or action are "animalistic". K:"I should correct myself; even in the non-human domains whether by genetic imprinting or instinct or some primordial intelligence, creatures at most time define the limits of "freedom" they allow each other within the species they belong to. Even the inter-species cosmos exists with it's own checks and balances." Now this is where things really get serious. Freedom, regulation, humanity and animality. Thank you Kshmendra for bringing up questions about the necessity of limits to freedom and the parameters of unfreedom that different kinds of people are willing to countenance. And I admire the acrobatic elegance of for your ambitious attempt at almost simultaneously maintaining as well as transcending an inter-species ontological barrier between human beings and other animals. I mean either humans are different from animals because they 'regulate' their freedoms, or they are not. We can't be both. I am quite happy to maintain that we are in fact animals, albeit given to our own species specific pathologies, but that is another debate altogether. Let us for the moment consider the nature of 'regulated freedom'. The whole debate hinges around which freedoms need to be regulated and why. I would argue that the freedom to amass property to the extent that the commons are expropriated is something that I would regulate, while the freedom of expression is something that I would advocate the least regulation of. This difference arises from different evaluations of the consequences of the amassing of property and the freedom of expression. We can debate this separately if anyone so desires, but right now, I am mentioning this just to demonstrate that I am not someone who believes that 'anything goes' in all circumstances. Even within the arena of 'freedom of expression' I could accept that there should be redress for erroneous or particular kinds of damaging speech. For instance, if someone erroneously, or with mala fide intent calls someone who is not a thief a thief, then the person who gets called a thief should (in my opinion) have recourse to relief and redress on the grounds that their reputations have been attacked and damaged. So, on this count, those who say that the individual called Sanjay Kak 'censors voices critical of his on the blog that accompanies the film he has made could be (in my view rightly) criticized for the ordinary and banal act of defamation. All you need to do is to check for entries tagged 'abuse' under the responses to postings in the said blog to see what I mean. The blog is moderated, true, but that does not automatically mean that all critical content is blocked. This distinction between moderated, edited and censored is something that we will return to when I respond to Arnab's questions in my next posting. But to return to the current argument - calling for relief from defamation is not tantamount to censorship. Similarly, if someone were to say on this forum, or elsewhere that 'X' individual should be killed, and then announce a reward for his execution, and furnish details of the targeted individual's address, whereabouts and movement, then I would certainly call for the removal of that message from the list, and from the archive of the list, because it would be an instance of a specific and verifiable threat to someone's life. Or, if a private dispute, involving the private or professional (but not public) affairs, were to blow up on this list, I would advocate that at least an appeal be made for that exchange to be carried on (if at all it has to, off the list) for the sake of the protection of the right to privacy of the concerned individuals. Similarly, if someone were to post photographic representations of children or animals in a pornographic form on any web forum or any other platform, I would call for its censorship, not because it is pornographic but because its implies sexual actions with implicitly unverifiable consent. Here, i would maintain that a drawn or written (as opposed to photographic) representation would not qualify in my view for censorship, though I would strongly criticse such a representation. Similarly, I would personally call for the censorship of the snuff videos of acts of beheading that jihadist groups in Iraq and elsewhere in the world are so fond of displaying on internet forums, or the photographic representations of hangings and public executions that the fascist and totalitarian regimes in Iran and China sometimes put out Not because I have a problem with the representation of violence per se, but because in these cases the act of representation itself is a violation of the liberty of those who are being killed. No one has asked them (the executed) for their consent to have their beheading or hanging put on public display. In each of these cases, i would call for the regulation of speech and expression because I believe that in each of these cases there is a direct harm to the life, or health, or liberty. or personal well being of a person or persons that can be solely attributed to the relevant speech act. And these are the only forms of speech or expression that I would be willing to endorse the censorship of. I do not believe that what Taslima Nasrin has written or said meet these criteria and therefore I disagree with the call for censorship of her writing. This does not mean I either agree with, or admire what she writes. Nor does it mean that I disagree with, or abjure what she writes. My opinion and what I think about the quality of her writing is actually irrelevant. Kshmendra has tried to argue that my drawing an analogy between the attempts by some self declared representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community to obstruct screenings of Jashn-e-Azadi and the verbal threats to kill Taslima Nasrin by the leadership of the MIM in Hyderabad is unsound. He goes further to say that if, by saying that loud verbal interruption and obstruction is as threatening as the threat to kill, I take critical speech acts per so to be violent, why do I object to people objecting to the violence that some people (here some Muslims) read into Taslima Nasrin's writing. Lets get this straight. I do not object to anyone criticising any film at all. I object to people interrupting a screening. Interrupting a screening by loud slogans deprives not just the filmmaker from showing his film, it also deprives the audience from watching it, while a screening is in progress. This happenned when some representatives of Kashmiri Pandits interrupted a screening that was happenning in Delhi. Incidentally, and to set the record straight, I can state that the same thing happened when some representatives of some Kashmir Muslims also heckled and interrupted the screening in Srinagar. For opposite but similar reasons (these representatives of the Kashmiri Pandits took umbrage at the presence of Yasin Malik in the film, while the representatives of Kashmiri Muslims took offence at the presence of a gentleman called Pervez Imroze in the film). In both cases, I witnessed the filmmaker appeal to the sloganeers (in the Srinagar screening they also distributed pamphlets against the film - no doubt they would have seen the filmmaker as a divisive Indian agent) to let the screenings not be interrupted, but to voice whatever points they had to make during discussion in a manner that did not intimidate others. IN both these instances, what the represntatives of those who claimed were the people 'injured' by the film, effectively wanted the film to be stopped. They did not criticize the film with arguments, they attacked the filmmaker and his intentions. In a similar manner, when the MIM attacks Taslima Nasrin, they want her to stop speaking, and want to prevent other people from reading her, or from listening to her. That is what makes these actions of the same order, albeit different in degree. Censorship occurs when a work of art or literature or any expression is prevented from being accessed in any manner. The MIM and the representatives of the Kashmiri Pandit community (note, that I never say 'Kashmiri Pandits'because I cannot vouch for what every Kashmiri Pandit thinks or feels) have both arrogated to themselves the position and the function of the censor, and that is why I am constrained to point out the remarkably parallel nature of their actions. Taslima Nasrin has not from what I can gather, censored anyone, nor has she prevented anyone from speaking. So if her work represents a textual or verbal violence, then it is one of a totally different order. And so, in this case, it would be completely inappropriate to say that the offender and the offendee are both culpable for the same kind of action.I hope I have made myself adequately clear. Morover, Taslima Narsin's remarks on religion or any religious personage cannot be said to come under the class of speech acts that damage or harm the life, health or private well being of any specific person or persons. If someone decides to start a riot because of her book, then the person who should be prosecuted is not the writer, but the person who starts the riot. Therefore I do not believe that her speech or expression needs regulation. There are specific instances in some of her books where she has named people whom she claims she has had sexual relationships with. If someone takes offense on the grounds that they believe that those facts are distorted or untrue, then the proper recourse that such people can take is to challenge the book and the author (if the work is a work of non fiction) in a court under the relevant laws that apply to defamation. To do so is not to censor a book, it is to correct a deliberate distortion of matters that can be found to be either true or false. So, this is just to clarify that I actually apply very strict and rigid normative criteria to what kinds of speech and expression I would agree to have regulated. The regulation of any other form of speech, in my opinion, leads to decreased opportunities for the expression of difference, which I value, because I think that it is only when we are faced with difference that we are in a position to determine the best or most suitable choices available to us. If a person does not have the opportunity to consider whether or not a personage valued in a given religious tradition, should indeed be their exemplar, or that a particular religious or political belief is best for them, then their belief or unbelief stands automatically devalued. A sincere believer and a robust sceptic would both welcome tests to their faith or their doubt in the form of the representations that he or she would condsider 'offensive'. They would then know why they disagreed. And without a sense of what one disagrees with, we cannot arrive at any informed understanding of what we agreee So, when the kind of people who call for fatwas on a Rushdie or a Taslima or attack an art student in Baroda say they do so on the grounds of their 'faith', I personally find it laughable, because they only demonstrate how weak and how shallow their 'faith' is. Frankly, the person of faith who interests me is the person who can actually grapple with, and live with (and therefore argue with) things that are deeply antithetical and offensive to them. I, who am not blessed with faith, would happily spend years with such people. " The subject to dwell upon would be whether the "freedoms" are allowed with a bias favouring some and prejudicial to others. That is not being discussed here." If by 'here' you mean the list, then I take strong exception to that view. There is no reason not to discuss anything at all. Any opinion or point of view can be discussed, and has been vigorously debated on this list. If (by way of suggestive example) you are alluding to the fact that there are many people on this list who vocalize strong disagreements with an Indian nationalist position on Kashmir or on related issues, you need also to remember that no one has as of now called for the removal of those that proclaim their loyalty to the 'Kashmiri Pandit' cause. I can recall instances on this list when Vedavati's right to express what I think is her rabid anti Muslim rhetoric has been publicly defended, even by those (myself included) who strongly disagree with her views. In fact, I recall the fact that a person who made ad-hominem and highly personalized remarks about her was reprimanded quite severely on this list for attacking the messenger and not the message. The fact that this is an unmoderated list means that anyone can say anything,but that there are consequences, which may amount to people being shown up for having shallow and flawed arguments by their correspondents. This goes to show that the freedom of speech can actually have far more severe consequences on the messenger of poor quality speech. Freedom of speech automatically brings with it more severe and pointed possibilities of criticism. Censored speech has recourse to the glamour of persecution, free speech can claim no such prestige. Finally, let me turn to what Anjalika said in response to Kshmendra. A:"I really do believe that it is a rhetoric designed to appeal to a certain Western art world/ new media mileu that enjoy hearing the take of self defined translatable experts representative of South Asia - who always quite tediously use a libertarian discourse that presents India as a space that is coherently monitored by the 'police' - wow ...the thought police !!! . This tactic presents India as a place in need of liberating, in need of emancipation. But by whom pray is this to be done ... and to what ends, and whom does all this liberating benefit? It always benefits someone right - be it the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo or the weapons dealer." Now, nowhere, in any thing that I have ever written on this matter do I find is present an appeal (rhetorically or otherwise) to some powerful 'western' entities in the art world/new media milieu to intervene, liberate or emancipate, 'India'. In fact, if anyone even remotely familiar with the current excess of representation of the conceptually flawed category of 'Indian Art' in the art world would know, the only way to play that game (the 'Indian Art' game) successfully is to also play the 'India Shining' game - the 'India turning next digital superpower, like an overgrown Finland' kind of game. To actually talk about the fact that things are not always rosy in what gets framed as contemporary 'India', is currently very, very uncool and unkosher. India, 'so sexy at sixty', who would want to spoil that game in the current cultural milieu?I am actually both shocked and amused at the imaginative leap that Anjalika's assertion embodies. I am further amused to realize that she, as a British artist should assume that any criticism that any person who lives and works in India should make of the realities that have an immediate bearing on the climate of expression that they inhabit is an automatic appeal to the 'West' to intervene. I think if nothing else, this statement demonstrates the highly exaggerated sense of self-importance that some people who inhabit 'western' spaces begin to have, because of the exasperated exhaustion that they affect in assuming that the addressee of all communication that comes from the so called 'third world' is them alone. I am really sorry Anjali to have burdened you with the impression that I was actually asking you, an able bodied representative of the Western art world, to come and make things nice for me. Please don't bother yourself. It will tire you out, exhaust you and really make life unpleasant for you. Instead, I recommend that you do something about the general banality of British cultural life, caught as it is between Tory denial, New Labour spin and multi-cultural masala. If it helps matters, we can always export a few south asian censorious types to liven things up. You can take your pick, would you like Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Secularists, Leftists or any other variety of censors? They would do a very good job in complementing the home grown spin doctors who already dominate the semantic and cultural landscape of the United Kingdom. I also do hope you can keep them in your midst forever. Please do make haste and help with their immigration. Let me end this post by addressing Anjalika's 'who benefits' question around - and assume that it is in fact a serious 'qui bono' question with regard to the freedom of speech. She said - "whom does all this liberating benefit? It always benefits someone right - be it the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo or the weapons dealer." Right, if liberation means greater freedom of speech, then it does benefit the porn guru, the Hindu Fundo and the weapons dealer. But we also have to ask who else it benefits? I am not too familiar with porn gurus, but I do know that a lot of Hindu Fundos and weapons dealers are powerful people. When considering any act of speech or silence we have to ask, how much power does the speaker hold while they are speaking (or refusing to speak).And yes, powerful people use the liberty that they have to extend their power. Naturally, the freedom of powerful people to speak as they wish, or not speak as they wish extends and amplifies their power. Sometimes they will amplify their power to the extent that they ensure that no one else gets a hearing. But freedom of speech has another corollary consequence. Which we can understand better if we try and see the consequences of its negation. In the absence of conditions that enable, support or guarantee freedom of expression, those who have no power have no possibility at all to make themselves heard. So given that those who are affected by the actions of Hindu fundos and weapons dealers are usually less powerful than them, the absence of freedom of speech effectively ensures that the opposition to Hindu fundos and weapons dealers are automatically consigned to silence. The only way in which Hindu fundos and weapons dealers and other powerful people can be challenged is if the opposition to them is able to communicate its point of view, (or to refuse to disclose itself - which I call the freedom of silence) and consequently, perhaps be able to protect itself and mobilize a critical mass to an extent that effectively negates the power of the powerful. So, yes, freedom of speech (and of silence) benefits the powerful. But the absence of the freedom of speech and silence benefits the powerful absolutely, because only the presence of the freedom of speech (and silence)enables those less powerful to mobilize effectively against the more powerful. Only the presence of freedom of speech (and silence) offers the possibility that those who are not powerful might just be able to scrape together the conditions of getting their voices heard. There is a simple enough mathematics to this, for those who want to work it out, and if you are interested, please refer to a very modest piece of work by the Raqs Media Collective - called - 'The Mathematics of Anacoustic Reason' that actually refers to the calibrated dynamics of power, speech and silence . Google, and ye shall find. thanks, and apologies if I have offended anyone else's sentiments in advance. regards Shuddha From mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 12:37:21 2007 From: mahmood.farooqui at gmail.com (mahmood farooqui) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:37:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata, Anjalika & other In-Reply-To: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Arnab, I am completely with you on re-situating the debate about rights, freedom and liberties. But I find your posts difficult to swallow. I can bite into them, I can even chew a bit but wholesome swallow-ing remains beyond my grasping reach. I am not arguing for simplification, nor for simplicity but for terseness, of expression, not the post. You start your second para with the line that 'the word liberal should not be used with.' I am with you on this a priori normative stand. But we have to also contend with a situation where the word liberal IS used for just such a thing that you wish to confute. Is it possible to chart out a terrain for Indian liberalism, would that terrain give the same centrality to individual rights or to private-public separation as you would like us to maintain? The question can be extended further. Can we chart out an Indian history, short though it is, of contestations for artistic freedom. You, of course, know where I am heading. Can there be, should there be, a cultural modernity that is Indian where invoking Habermas, or Hegel, does not automatically earn a privilege over invoking Sir Syed or Bankim? If Indian democracy is a singular experiment, if Indian secularism is distinct in some measure, then we can and should invoke these questions from the point of view of the givers, the framers and the thinkers of the 'modern,' as equally from the receivers and practitioners of the same. In that case newspaper editorials become as valid as theoretical stances enunciated in subaltern studies. But somewhere in your posts I seem to stumble on a negative imperative, it should not. That we should expand our discursive tools for explicating on issues such as freedom, rights etc is a welcome thought but does that need negate, or invalidate, our modes of discussing things per se. In defence of jantar mantar, for the moment. Mahmood On 16/08/07, ARNAB CHATTERJEE wrote: > Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, > > > I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much more) 'liberal;' 'physical violence', 'freedom of expression' and some such others. > To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word 'Liberal' should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the notion of 'individual' freedom through individual rights; secondly, a distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted according to these contours. > Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the 'freedom of expression' schema, it would be in terms of individual rights of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal standpoint and argue for the 'freedom of the artist.' But if you engage a bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of personal rights. ( Now I'm not raising the fatal objection raised once upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also fetters: if you argue against absolute rights or royal > privileges, why don't you argue against rights themselves at some point of time to become 'really' free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I'm not going for this; rather I'm summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: an artist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern standpoint. So far so good! > Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dear Shuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Anjalika puts it so much more sexily "Hindu fundoos." In other words, the claim of certain "self appointed"( again Shuddha) "cultural police" officers(!) that there has occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities in certain texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the wake of this same kind of furor around the films 'Water' and 'Fire'). > The thing that challenges liberal 'modernity' in art ( or whatever) in postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but 'democracy'. This algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I'll adopt this proposal for application. > Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen ( in the absence of representative politics within religious communities they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question of the artists' answerability or accountability to the communities who tend to have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This belongs to what I call the 'politics of designation' ( some call it 'identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim > resembles the form and structure of such a politics. > > Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. > Now, physical violence! I've already said elsewhere that the question of toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwed or beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the "armed radical Islamic activists"( not "fundoos") have not been able to organize the required coercion; it's a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed than direct physical violence. I discussed this in detail in my posting ( see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder of arguing that because Taslima has not called > for "killing", she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Are all the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or because Marx announced a program of "violent overthrow", deserved to be killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call to kill. > Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic cleric scholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on the Islamic portions of her engagement, she didn't agree on the "imaginary" grounds that she will be "abused." > > Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at times I'm disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting but then I think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. > When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers 'in haste', I just feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of 'porn-gurus'; I can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don't mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; they don't dare confront what Habermas called 'the force of the better argument' but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha's silence would not rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. > I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should keep his level lovely—always at his best. > And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was Shuddha at his worst! > Thanking you > Yours in discourse and debt > arnab > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From apnawritings at yahoo.co.in Fri Aug 17 14:12:52 2007 From: apnawritings at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:42:52 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: More on constructing Taslima: Response to Shuddha, and others Message-ID: <853613.18741.qm@web8503.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha, I had posted this text at SARAI list ysterday noon and had sent a copy to Iram yesterday evening, but it didn't go through due to a "technical problem" as Iram tells me today and having learnt again now from yr post that in the second mail you deal with my questions, hopefully you take into account the questions raised in this text too, since technically it is before yr response--as u see my dear shuddha, but luckily u got through and my one got stuck. But u must raise it from the dead, shouldn't u? love amd luck yr in admiration arnab Note: forwarded message attached. Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/ From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 17 19:09:47 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:39:47 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata, Anjalika & other In-Reply-To: References: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C5A523.50703@blueyonder.co.uk> Ahh thank you Arnab for your excellent - most excellent snooty, macho, up-urself response. Your little digs against me are idiotic. I am fully aware of all the positions and all the bloody theories. There must be something there in your ever so refined response that could be of value, and worth my time and THINKING -- ha ha - but frankly you are so in love with yourself and your your use of the English language that I cannot be arsed as we say here in Hackney ..I fear that you and your type live in a world where you live comfortably in your class position - you have probably been spoilt from day one - gone to great schools with your parents undying support - you have sailed through life building those precious little brains of yours. Over here our liberty has been negotiated and fought for on an everyday level , we are not intergrated or assimilated here in the UK - Us Pakis, Niggers, us council house dwellers, faggots, one legged lesbians etc have struggled on the basis of difference ...We have had our lives threatened, our homes burned down and thank gawd that Porn Gurus such as the racist National Front and the Paki and Nigger bashers never had their way - Thanks to the Black parents movement in the 80's , all negative representations of Afro - Caribbeans were banned such as gollywogs in children's books , the Black and White Minstrel show, Mind Your Language etc .... Anyway you don't deserve in more of my precious time. In haste , in haste , in haste ..ha ha Anj mahmood farooqui wrote: > Dear Arnab, > > I am completely with you on re-situating the debate about rights, > freedom and liberties. But I find your posts difficult to swallow. I > can bite into them, I can even chew a bit but wholesome swallow-ing > remains beyond my grasping reach. I am not arguing for simplification, > nor for simplicity but for terseness, of expression, not the post. > > You start your second para with the line that 'the word liberal should > not be used with.' I am with you on this a priori normative stand. But > we have to also contend with a situation where the word liberal IS > used for just such a thing that you wish to confute. Is it possible to > chart out a terrain for Indian liberalism, would that terrain give the > same centrality to individual rights or to private-public separation > as you would like us to maintain? > > The question can be extended further. Can we chart out an Indian > history, short though it is, of contestations for artistic freedom. > > You, of course, know where I am heading. Can there be, should there > be, a cultural modernity that is Indian where invoking Habermas, or > Hegel, does not automatically earn a privilege over invoking Sir Syed > or Bankim? > > If Indian democracy is a singular experiment, if Indian secularism is > distinct in some measure, then we can and should invoke these > questions from the point of view of the givers, the framers and the > thinkers of the 'modern,' as equally from the receivers and > practitioners of the same. In that case newspaper editorials become as > valid as theoretical stances enunciated in subaltern studies. > > But somewhere in your posts I seem to stumble on a negative > imperative, it should not. That we should expand our discursive tools > for explicating on issues such as freedom, rights etc is a welcome > thought but does that need negate, or invalidate, our modes of > discussing things per se. > > In defence of jantar mantar, > for the moment. > > Mahmood > > On 16/08/07, ARNAB CHATTERJEE wrote: > >> Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, >> >> >> I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much more) 'liberal;' 'physical violence', 'freedom of expression' and some such others. >> To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word 'Liberal' should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the notion of 'individual' freedom through individual rights; secondly, a distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted according to these contours. >> Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the 'freedom of expression' schema, it would be in terms of individual rights of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal standpoint and argue for the 'freedom of the artist.' But if you engage a bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of personal rights. ( Now I'm not raising the fatal objection raised once upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also fetters: if you argue against absolute rights or royal >> privileges, why don't you argue against rights themselves at some point of time to become 'really' free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I'm not going for this; rather I'm summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: an artist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern standpoint. So far so good! >> Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dear Shuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Anjalika puts it so much more sexily "Hindu fundoos." In other words, the claim of certain "self appointed"( again Shuddha) "cultural police" officers(!) that there has occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities incertain texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the wake of this same kind of furor around the films 'Water' and 'Fire'). >> The thing that challenges liberal 'modernity' in art ( or whatever) in postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but 'democracy'. This algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I'll adopt this proposal for application. >> Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen ( in the absence of representative politics within religious communities they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question of the artists' answerability or accountability to the communities who tend to have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This belongs to what I call the 'politics of designation' ( some call it 'identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim >> resembles the form and structure of such a politics. >> >> Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. >> Now, physical violence! I've already said elsewhere that the question of toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwed or beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the "armed radical Islamic activists"( not "fundoos") have not been able to organize the required coercion; it's a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed than direct physical violence. I discussed this in detail in my posting ( see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder of arguing that because Taslima has not called >> for "killing", she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Are all the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or because Marx announced a program of "violent overthrow", deserved to be killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call to kill. >> Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic cleric scholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on the Islamic portions of her engagement, she didn't agree on the "imaginary" grounds that she will be "abused." >> >> Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at times I'm disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting but then I think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. >> When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers 'in haste', I just feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of 'porn-gurus'; I can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don't mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; they don't dare confront what Habermas called 'the force of the better argument' but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha's silence would not rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. >> I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should keep his level lovely—always at his best. >> And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was Shuddha at his worst! >> Thanking you >> Yours in discourse and debt >> arnab >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 17 19:12:52 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:42:52 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata, Anjalika & other In-Reply-To: References: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C5A5DC.2020402@blueyonder.co.uk> Ahh thank you Arnab for your excellent - most excellent snooty, macho, up-urself response. Your little digs against me are idiotic. I am fully aware of all the positions and all the bloody theories. There must be something there in your ever so refined response that could be of value, and worth my time and THINKING -- ha ha - but frankly you are so in love with yourself and your your use of the English language that I cannot be arsed as we say here in Hackney ..I fear that you and your type live in a world where you live comfortably in your class position - you have probably been spoilt from day one - gone to great schools with your parents undying support - you have sailed through life building those precious little brains of yours. Over here our liberty has been negotiated and fought for on an everyday level , we are not intergrated or assimilated here in the UK - Us Pakis, Niggers, us council house dwellers, faggots, one legged lesbians etc have struggled on the basis of difference ...We have had our lives threatened, our homes burned down and thank gawd that Porn Gurus such as the racist National Front and the Paki and Nigger bashers never had their way - Thanks to the Black parents movement in the 80's , all negative representations of Afro - Caribbeans were banned such as gollywogs in children's books , the Black and White Minstrel show, Mind Your Language etc .... Anyway you don't deserve any more of my precious time. In haste , in haste , in haste ..ha ha Anj mahmood farooqui wrote: > Dear Arnab, > > I am completely with you on re-situating the debate about rights, > freedom and liberties. But I find your posts difficult to swallow. I > can bite into them, I can even chew a bit but wholesome swallow-ing > remains beyond my grasping reach. I am not arguing for simplification, > nor for simplicity but for terseness, of expression, not the post. > > You start your second para with the line that 'the word liberal should > not be used with.' I am with you on this a priori normative stand. But > we have to also contend with a situation where the word liberal IS > used for just such a thing that you wish to confute. Is it possible to > chart out a terrain for Indian liberalism, would that terrain give the > same centrality to individual rights or to private-public separation > as you would like us to maintain? > > The question can be extended further. Can we chart out an Indian > history, short though it is, of contestations for artistic freedom. > > You, of course, know where I am heading. Can there be, should there > be, a cultural modernity that is Indian where invoking Habermas, or > Hegel, does not automatically earn a privilege over invoking Sir Syed > or Bankim? > > If Indian democracy is a singular experiment, if Indian secularism is > distinct in some measure, then we can and should invoke these > questions from the point of view of the givers, the framers and the > thinkers of the 'modern,' as equally from the receivers and > practitioners of the same. In that case newspaper editorials become as > valid as theoretical stances enunciated in subaltern studies. > > But somewhere in your posts I seem to stumble on a negative > imperative, it should not. That we should expand our discursive tools > for explicating on issues such as freedom, rights etc is a welcome > thought but does that need negate, or invalidate, our modes of > discussing things per se. > > In defence of jantar mantar, > for the moment. > > Mahmood > > On 16/08/07, ARNAB CHATTERJEE wrote: > >> Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, >> >> >> I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much more) 'liberal;' 'physical violence', 'freedomof expression' and some such others. >> To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word 'Liberal' should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the notion of 'individual' freedom through individual rights; secondly, a distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted accordingto these contours. >> Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the 'freedom of expression' schema, it would be in terms of individual rights of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal standpoint and argue for the 'freedom of the artist.' But if you engage a bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of personal rights. ( Now I'm not raising the fatal objection raised once upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also fetters: if you argue against absolute righ ts or royal >> privileges, why don't you argue against rights themselves at some point of time to become 'really' free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I'm not going for this; rather I'm summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: anartist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern standpoint. So far so good! >> Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dearShuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Anjalika puts it so much more sexily "Hindu fundoos." In other words, the claim of certain "self appointed"( again Shuddha) "cultural police" officers(!) that there has occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities in certain texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the wake of thissame kind of furor around the films 'Water' and 'Fire'). >> The thing that challenges liberal 'modernity' in art ( or whatever) in postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but 'democracy'. This algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I'll adopt this proposal for application. >> Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen (in the absence of representative politics within religious communities they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question ofthe artists' answerability or accountability to the communities who tendto have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This belongs to what I call the 'politics of designation' ( some call it 'identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim >> resembles the form and structure of such a politics. >> >> Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. >> Now, physical violence! I've already said elsewhere that the question of toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwedor beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the "armed radical Islamic activists"( not "fundoos") have not been able to organize the required coercion; it's a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed than direct physical violence. I discussed this in detail in my posting (see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder of arguing that because Taslima has not called >> for "killing", she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Areall the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or because Marx announced a program of "violent overthrow", deserved to be killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call to kill. >> Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic clericscholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on theIslamic portions of her engagement, she didn't agree on the "imaginary" grounds that she will be "abused." >> >> Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at times I'm disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting butthen I think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. >> When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers 'in haste', I just feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of 'porn-gurus'; I can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don't mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; they don't dare confront what Habermas called 'the force of the better argument' but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha's silence would not rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. >> I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should keep his level lovely—always at his best. >> And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was Shuddha at his worst! >> Thanking you >> Yours in discourse and debt >> arnab >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From image.science at donau-uni.ac.at Fri Aug 17 19:12:37 2007 From: image.science at donau-uni.ac.at (Image Science) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:42:37 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] ISEA 2008 - Call for Proposals - deadline Aug, 31 2007 Message-ID: <46C5C1ED0200007D00003CEA@gwgwia.donau-uni.ac.at> please excuse cross-postings ISEA 2008 :: July 25 - August 3 Call for Papers, Panels and Artist Presentations We cordially invite submissions to the conference of the International Symposium on Electronic Art 2008 that will be held in Singapore between 25th - 30th July 2008. The conference is held alongside workshops, courses, exhibitions, performances and other in-conjunction events that will be held for the duration of ISEA2008 from 25th July to August 3rd 2008. The conference, as in previous ISEAs, is expected to bring together artists, theorists, historians, curators and researchers of media arts from around the world to jointly explore the most urgent and exciting questions in the field. The five themes of ISEA2008 are especially focused on eliciting a wide range of international scholars and artists. Conference Programme The conference programme will include competitively selected, peer-reviewed individual papers and panel presentations. This year we are also encouraging artists who wish to share their works with a broader audience of their peers to submit artist presentations where they can speak about the specific aesthetic, conceptual and technological aspects of their works. The conference also promises to present a list of internationally renowned Keynote Speakers expounding on the major themes of the conference. There will also be a special lecture delivered by a Nobel Laureate. Call for Proposals We welcome contributions from creative practitioners and researchers from a variety of disciplines and institutional contexts as media arts benefits from and exemplifies the interdisciplinary linkages between contemporary art, science, technology and their related philosophies, pedagogies and institutional practices. The submissions must address or be of relevance to at least one of the themes of ISEA2008 in order to be considered for inclusion in the conference. The conference will be of interest to those working in but not limited to the following areas: media art, contemporary art, design, art history and theory, film and media studies, gaming, toy design, human-computer interaction, cultural studies, literary studies, musicology, sound studies, theatre, dance and performance studies, science, technology and society studies, history of science and history of technology, philosophy, history, gender studies, political science, anthropology, sociology and geography. Submission requirements: We only require abstracts (not more than 300 words) of the proposed paper, panel presentations and artist presentations to be submitted in either Text, RTF, Word or PDF formats via this site. Please do not submit full papers at this stage. While we encourage submissions to include relevant images, it would be useful if the formats in which such images are submitted is restricted to low resolution jpegs. In the case of submissions for artists’ presentations, artists are encouraged to provide links to their and/or relevant websites. The deadline for submissions will be 31st August 2007. Submissions sent after this date will not be considered. http://www.isea2008.org/cfp.html From renee75 at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 19:20:45 2007 From: renee75 at gmail.com (Renee Lulam) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:20:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] constructing cosmopolitan Message-ID: The past month has garnered more testimonies than any other. We have met people of all ages— old, very old, young, youngish…. All with their own stories, all with a willingness to contribute…and perhaps most importantly, with an interest to have their stories and remembrances acknowledged and vindicated. As would be expected, narratives yielded have been contradictory and varied. However, a thread that remains consistent throughout is that the cosmopolitan nature of Shillong is a colonial creation. B.Dattaray, who also happens to be a historian, put this across most aptly by calling the place 'an artifact of British administration'. Be that as it may, the various communities brought in by the British to make their lives easier, have certainly woven an intricate social fabric that has absorbed, sometimes risen above, other times caved in to the complicated issues that arise out of such a mix. As we speak to and record more people, each narrative changes the meaning of 'cosmopolitan' and 'democratic spaces'. Each narrated experience provides an insight into the dynamics that have kept, and continue to keep Shillong complex and alive. Intending to present a more wholesome picture of our project and recordings at the final presentation. Cheers! Renee and Jules From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 19:21:53 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <532989.98249.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mahmood Bhai, I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May I ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is priceless work and it should be archived. regards Rahul --- mahmood farooqui wrote: > > You are cordially invited to > > > > Partition Dastans- > > > > New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around parrtition > > > > on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, > India Habitat Centre. > > > > Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre or > Zuban. > > > > Please come early. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From mrsg at vsnl.com Fri Aug 17 20:09:14 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:09:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August References: <532989.98249.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002a01c7e0dc$810b5920$68ba41db@MRAY> >From a number of references it seems partition is a past thing - now we can sit back comfortably and chat, make film or write book on it. BUT IT IS NOT. Hindu refugees have never stopped coming from East Pakistan / Bangladesh. everyday they are running away from the Islamic country. The population of the hindus have come down from 29% to 9%, biggest ethnic cleansing in recent history. And when I am writing these lines some people are crossing the border. Partition is still a reality in West Bengal and North east. Well nobody will dare to write or make a film on that. You all know why. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" To: "mahmood farooqui" ; ; Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August > Mahmood Bhai, > I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May I > ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is priceless > work and it should be archived. > regards > Rahul > --- mahmood farooqui > wrote: > >> > You are cordially invited to >> > >> > Partition Dastans- >> > >> > New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around parrtition >> > >> > on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, >> India Habitat Centre. >> > >> > Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre or >> Zuban. >> > >> > Please come early. >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the >> subject header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Aug 17 20:28:18 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:58:18 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata Message-ID: <46C5B78A.3060807@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear Shuddha, I will respond to these points later on - as I am sick right now and don't have the energy. In brief, and quite sincerely - thanks for your thorough response and the openness with which you have written this. Let me just say this very quickly. I am constantly surprised, rarely challenged , annoyingly amused , and in some cases shocked by the way that the many Western curators speak of their experiences of meeting Indian thinkers such as yourself - as if individuals such as yourself or groups such as Sarai or Raqs are the ONLY ones who have anything to say . So I agree with you - they do have an overly conflated idea of their own self importance - as if they have discovered you all !!. However glad I am that they are challenged by the likes of you ( and that they are not just banging on about bloody Bollywood - although now it is ' the Indian Art scene' and again their knowledge is limited) - they are constantly a loss and lazy to boot when in comes to other complex cultural paradigms such as the South Asian sub-continent.. I have seen the same thing happen with the Middle East - where lazy curators in the West just want the easy option and only meet- on their two week British Council sponsored trips, those people who are easily translatable to their context... On hearing curators speak of their experiences in India - with wide eyes they will talk about landing in Delhi , and in amazed tones they say " we were met on time by" .... /in many / nearly all cases you and your friends../..and then they are amazed by how smart you all are - as if they are scared that when they arrive they will be eaten by crocodiles and then they are relieved to find out that the crocs can speak English ...!! Sorry but this attitude I find really irritating and lazy. In relation to this I am sure you understand the psychology here - You maybe surprised to know that 'the Western cultural discourse led circles' so as not to be specific - get off on seeing India in terms of crisis - I do not support the India Shining representation at all - but you must recognize that they seem to have an addiction to exotic traumas and are not interested in their own backyard at all. Also I am confused - why do you limit us to British Artists ..when you yourself with abandon say 'I refuse on ethical, philosophical and political grounds to play the game of representing any 'category' that can be read off the bare facts of gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity or nationality' Do you not think we think in the same way - that we also strive to be seen as simply normal not carrying the burden of representation ..... I would say that for us however it is not quite as simple as abandoning a position - one has to constantly struggle against racism and limited understanding - that is not playing a game Shuddha , that is the constant struggle the likes of us and many newer immigrants are faced with on a daily basis. I work in the art world and it is a racist world - we have to deal with institutional racism - we cannot abandon that struggle - one has a responsibility to challenge it . It is not as bad as in Europe - where one has to deal with ignorance of a kind that can become intolerable. To close - please do not refer to me or The Otolith Group as home grown spin doctors - we are in some ways fighting the same problems as you are - but we have no power. Bests Anj From patrice at xs4all.nl Fri Aug 17 20:40:00 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:10:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Lessons of Empire: India, 60 Years After Independence (Corpwatch) Message-ID: <11131.86.91.173.154.1187363400.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> original to: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14640 Lessons of Empire: India, 60 Years After Independence by Nick Robins and Pratap Chatterjee, Special to CorpWatch August 14th, 2007 Cartoon by Khalil Bendib Two villagers who left their mud and wood huts last month to travel to London -- Kumuti Majhi and Phulme Majhi -- were a stark contrast to the 212,000 wealthy Indians who visited Britain last year on shopping expeditions where they outspent Japanese tourists. The villagers' mission, rather than the acquisition of designer clothing or the latest electronics, was to try to save the livelihoods of their small tribe that grows millet, fruit and spices in the lushly-forested Niyamgiri hills in eastern India. On August 1, 2007, the Majhis spoke out at the annual general meeting of Vedanta Resources PLC, a British multinational that is poised to dig a new bauxite mine that threatens the village of Jaganathpur. While Vedanta is incorporated in Britain, it is owned by Anil Agarwal, the world's 230th richest man according to the Forbes 2007 list, a former scrap metal merchant who was born in eastern India. (See Vedanta Undermines Indian Communities, by Nityanand Jayaraman.) The timing of the Mahji’s trip to Britain and the protests back in India have a much wider significance. 2007 is marked by a trinity of anniversaries that recall India’s conquest, first struggles and eventual liberation from British rule. On August 14th, India celebrates 60 years of independence. Earlier in the year, commemorations took place for the 150th anniversary of the great rebellion against British rule in 1857 -– known in the UK as the ‘mutiny’ and on the sub-continent as the ‘first war of independence.’ This trinity of historic milestones is completed with the 250th anniversary of the pivotal battle of Plassey in June 1757, when the private army of Britain’s East India Company (which was often referred to simply as the “Company”) defeated the forces of the Nawab (ruler) of Bengal (in eastern India), ushering in first corporate and then imperial domination. It is this legacy of collusion between global corporations and the expansionist state that makes this year so poignant and full of enduring lessons. Its history provides timeless lessons on how (and how not) to confront corporate power with protest, litigation, regulation, rebellion and, ultimately, corporate redesign. Many of today’s corporate struggles are prefigured in the resistance to the Company’s rise to power. Again and again, "the return of the East India Company" is used as a catch-phrase to describe the recent influx of multinationals into India, whether global mining corporations or foreign business more generally. And the Mahji’s journey follows in the footsteps of others who have travelled to London to seek redress from corporate abuse. In August 1769, for example, two Armenian merchants, Johannes Rafael and Gregore Cojamaul arrived at London’s docks. The two were rich men and had made their fortunes in India’s most prosperous region, Bengal. However, Rafael, Cojamaul and two others had been summarily arrested by the Company’s chief executive in Bengal, Harry Verelst, who then held them for more than five months under guard. When they were released, they found that the Company had pressured its puppet, the Nawab of Bengal, to change the rules of the game and ban all Armenians from the Bengal market. Sailing around the world to where the Company was headquartered, Rafael and Cojamaul appealed to its board of directors, complaining of their “cruel and inhuman” treatment. The striking continuity of protest over the centuries is largely buried in today’s celebration of India's surge to economic prominence. Tata’s acquisition of Anglo-Dutch steel group Corus earlier in the year has been seen by many as symbolizing the end of Britain’s era of industrial supremacy. Tata had already bagged the UK’s iconic tea blend, Tetley, and its automotive arm may be lining up a bid for Land Rover. Writing recently in the Financial Times, Malvinder Hohan Singh, the chief executive of Indian pharmaceutical company Ranbaxy, caught the mood: "500 years ago, a company was formed in London that directly led to British rule in India [and] there appears to be some concern that there is evidence of a reverse trend." This theme of reversal has also influenced India's popular media, most strikingly in a TV advertisement for Rajnigandha pan masala. Set in London, the ad shows an Indian tycoon stopping his car in front of the East India Company's headquarters and announcing to his secretary that he wants to buy the firm: "They ruled us for 200 years, and now it's our turn." But while the media celebrates India's rise as the new economic emperors, they would also do well to reflect on the history of the world's first major multinational. Down with the East India Company! Established on a cold New Year’s Eve in 1600, Britain’s East India Company is unarguably the mother of the modern corporation. In a career spanning almost three centuries, the Company bridged the mercantilist world of chartered monopolies and the industrial age of corporations accountable solely to shareholders. The Company’s establishment by royal charter, its monopoly of all trade between Britain and Asia and its semi-sovereign privileges to rule territories and raise armies certainly mark it out as a corporate institution from another time. Yet in its financing, structures of governance and business dynamics, the Company was undeniably modern. It may have referred to its staff as servants rather than executives, and communicated by quill pen rather than email, but the key features of the shareholder-owned corporation are there for all to see. Beyond its status as a corporate pioneer, the sheer size of its operations makes the Company historically significant on a global scale. At its height, the Company’s empire of commerce stretched from Britain across the Atlantic and around the Cape to the Gulf and on to India. From its headquarters at East India House on London’s Leadenhall Street, the Company managed an extensive import-export business. Trading posts were established at St. Helena in the mid-Atlantic, where Napoleon drank Company coffee in exile. ‘Factories’ were also established at Basra and Bandar Abbas in the Middle East. But it was in India that the Company’s impacts were most profound. Some of India’s major cities grew on the back of the Company’s trade, not least Bombay (Mumbai), Calcutta (Kolkata) and Madras (Chennai). Beyond these coastal ports, the Company established a huge land empire, first as an opportunistic quest for extra revenues and later as an end in itself. Always with an eye to the share price and their own executive perks, the Company’s executives in India combined economic muscle with its small, but effective private army to establish a corporate state across large parts of the sub-continent. Plassey was the turning point when the Company’s forces defeated the Nawab of Bengal and placed its puppet on the throne. This is often regarded as the contest that founded the British empire in India. But it is perhaps better viewed as the Company’s most successful business deal, generating a windfall profit of £2.5 million for the Company and £234,000 for Robert Clive, the chief architect of the acquisition. Today, this would be equivalent to a £232 million corporate windfall and a cool £22 million success fee for Clive. Yet, the Company’s footprint did not stop there, but stretched on to South-East Asia and beyond to China and Japan. Penang and Singapore were both ports purchased by the Company in an age when territories could be bought and sold like commodities. And if India was the site of the Company’s first commercial triumphs, it was in China that it made its second fortune. The Company’s ‘factory’ at Canton was the funnel through which millions of pounds of Bohea, Congo, Souchon and Pekoe teas flowed west to Britain, Europe and the Americas. In the other direction came first silver and later a flood of Indian-grown opium, smuggled in chests proudly bearing the Company chop (or logo). >From the beginning, the Company’s monopoly control over trade with Asia had been disputed by its competitors back in Britain. But it was with the Company’s acquisition of unprecedented economic power following Plassey that it came to be seen as a more structural threat to political liberty back home. For the editor of London’s Gentleman’s Magazine, by April 1767 it had become the ‘imperious company of East India merchants.’ For this normally sedate magazine, the prospect was bleak and boiled down to “whether the freedom or the slavery of this island will result.” Not surprisingly, perhaps, this fiery article was concluded with a defiant cry -- “down with that rump of unconstitutional power, the East India Company.” Six years later, as American patriots organised to counter the threat of the Company’s newly won monopoly of the Atlantic tea trade, Rusticus’ writing in east coast newspaper, The Alarm, also made clear his opposition: “Their conduct in Asia, for some Years past, has given simple Proof, how little they regard the Laws of Nature, the Rights, Liberties or Lives of Men.” Looking back, the uprising that eventually led to America's independence was sparked as much by hostility to corporate monopoly as it was to taxation without representation. The Company’s malpractice also featured heavily in Adam Smith’s Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, published in 1776. Written in the wake of the Company’s speculative ‘Bengal Bubble,’ Smith dissected the corporation as an institution and evaluated the factors that led to its own particular crisis. Uniquely, Smith was emphatic in downplaying the actions of individuals as the root cause of the problems. ‘I mean not to throw any odious imputation upon the general character of the servants of the East India Company,’ he wrote, stressing that ‘it is the system of government, the situation in which they are placed, that I mean to censure.’ The problem was one of corporate design. For Smith, the Company held the secret to one of the greatest puzzles of his time: explaining the distribution of benefits from the rapidly increasing integration of the world economy. “The discovery of America, and that of a passage to the East Indies by the Cape of Good Hope,” argued Smith “are the two greatest and most important events recorded in the history of mankind.” Smith’s belief was that the full potential of this dramatic opening had not been realized, owing to a combination of colonies and corporations. For the natives of both the East and West Indies, “all the commercial benefits have been sunk and lost” in a series of “dreadful misfortunes.” In Asia, the agents of this pain were the Dutch and British East India Companies, monopoly corporations that he condemned as “nuisances in every respect.” Not only did people pay for "all the extraordinary profits which the company may have made," argued Smith, but they also suffered from "all the extraordinary waste which the fraud and abuse, inseparable from the management of the affairs of so great a company, must necessarily have occasioned." Smith was certainly an enemy of the over-mighty state, but he was also opposed to the over-mighty corporation, arguing strongly against the market power of monopolies and the speculative dynamics of stock-market listed firms. Perhaps what infuriated the Company’s contemporaries most through the seventeenth, eighteenth and nineteenth centuries was its impunity, its ability to shrug off the consequences of its actions. For an insidious corollary to the Company’s speculative drive for market dominion was its willingness to engage in immense crimes safe in the knowledge that domestic and international remedies were not in place. A large part of the problem lay in the legal void of the time, with courts in both Europe and Asia wholly ill-equipped for bringing corporations and their executives to account. This did not stop the Company’s contemporaries from trying, most notably Adam Smith’s friend, Edmund Burke. It was Burke who first exposed how the Company had ‘radically and irretrievably ruined’ India through its ‘continual Drain’ of wealth -- a phrase that would haunt the next 150 years of British presence in India. In 1783, Burke introduced to make the Company accountable to the British Parliament, arguing that its corporate charter carried intrinsic duties: "this nation never did give a power without imposing a proportionable degree of responsibility." It is said that when one of the Company’s oldest Directors, William James, read Burke’s bill, he died of shock. When Burke's measure failed as a result of an unholy alliance of Court and City, he took up a hopeless struggle to impeach the Company's most senior executive in India, the former governor-general, Warren Hastings. Burke was merciless in his critique, on one occasion describing how Bengali women had been violated by the Company’s tax collectors: "They were dragged out, naked and exposed to the public view, and scourged before all the peoples they put the nipples of the women into the sharp edges of split bamboos and tore them from their bodies." For seven long years, the trial continued, ending as expected with a grateful House of Lords acquitting Hastings of "high crimes and misdemeanours." To get the founder of liberal economics and the father of modern conservatism both struggling to tame the Company says something for the bipartisan threat that the corporation posed to Britain during the Enlightenment. And Smith and Burke were joined by many others -- poets, playwrights and pamphleteers -- who expected future generations to take a similarly hard look at the Company's performance. "Historians of other nations (if not our own)," wrote the poet Richard Clarke in 1773, "will do justice to the oppressed of India and will hand down the Memory of the Oppressors to the latest Posterity." In the introduction to his long satire, The Nabob, or Asiatic Plunders, Clarke urged his countrymen "to perpetuate an honest indignation against these enemies of mankind." A Legacy of Loot Yet, in spite of Smith's profound analysis and Burke's passionate rhetoric, imperial interests won out against principle, consigning India to an empire of scorn and extraction. The drain of wealth was simply too attractive to renounce -- even though one lone MP did call for Britain to withdraw from India back in the 1780s. Combining commercial domination with control over Bengal’s tax system, the Company was able to restructure the richest province of what had once been the Mughal Empire for its own ends. Textiles were shipped back to London, paid for by Bengal’s own taxes, and peasants were forced to grow opium to be sold exclusively at below-cost prices to the Company, who then engineered its illegal export into China. If force and fraud were the tools by which the Company turned the terms of trade in its favour in India, it was opium that eventually had the same effect with the Qing Empire. For millennia, Europe had exported bullion to Asia in return for luxury goods, and when the Company was formed in 1600, Britain accounted for a paltry 2 percent of global output, compared with India's 22 percent and China’s percent. By the time Britain finally departed India's shores three and a half centuries later, its national income was more than 50 percent greater than that of its former colony. And it was the East India Company that acted as one of the chief agents in engineering this great switch in global development. "What is happening today with the rise of India and China is not some miraculous novelty -- as it is usually depicted in the Western press," writes historian William Dalrymple in the August 2nd issue of Time magazine, "so much as a return to the traditional pattern of global trade in the medieval and ancient world, where gold drained from West to East in payment for silks and spices and all manner of luxuries undreamed of in the relatively primitive capitals of Europe." Centuries after the Company's demise, its physical presence in India continues to impress: Its remains stretch from ruins of its fort at the pepper port of Tellicherrry on the west coast, to the grandeur of Chennai's Fort St. George on India's eastern shore. The mark is greatest in Kolkata, a "company town" of immense proportions. But the Company's powerful legacy also endures in India's public memory as an inspiration to the nationalist struggle for independence. For India's first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, the Company lay at the root of the oppression that he fought. "The corruption, venality, nepotism, violence and greed of money of these early generations of British rule in India," Nehru thundered in The Discovery of India, "is something which passes comprehension." Looking back at the Company's conquest of India, Nehru noted "it is significant that one of the Hindustani words which has become part of the English language is loot." Traditions of Domination and Resistance Today, after a decade of economic liberalization in India, this critical analysis continues to lie close to the surface. For many Indians, the Company's story has two profound morals: first, that multinational companies want not just trade, but power, and second, that division and betrayal among Indians enables foreign rule. The East India Company was a profit-making company that generated not only great wealth, but immense suffering, most notably in the horrific Bengal famine of 1769-70. Just as corporations today should be judged by the impacts of their core business rather than their often peripheral donations to cultural events, so the East India Company has to be assessed on the basis of its underlying activities rather than the occasional philanthropy of its executives. Far from being a dusty relic, the East India Company exemplifies the constant battle within corporations between the logic of exchange and the desire for domination. Two centuries on, it demonstrates that the quest for corporate accountability is a perpetual exercise in directing the energies of merchants and entrepreneurs so that their private passions do not undermine the public interest. The lesson from Smith is the imperative to keep corporate size in check while globalization is fostering ever-increasing commercial concentration. And from Burke, we can take the essential importance of placing corporate conduct within a framework of justice, establishing legal mechanisms to hold corporations to account. At its heart, the Company's business model combined speculation at home with aggression abroad. It was Karl Marx, writing in the 1850s as the Company limped towards its end, who pithily captured the drive that lay behind its remorseless rise to power. It was not any imperial project that had led it on, he wrote, but rather the Company had "conquered India to make money out of it." Just as in the days of the Company, India remains the place where corporate practice meets strong resistance, such as ongoing protests to bring justice for the thousands who were poisoned or killed in the 1984 deadly gas leak at Union Carbide's Bhopal factory, or the movement in the 1990s to prevent Enron's Dabhol natural gas power project in Maharashtra from going on-line. Challenges to multinational projects continue across the country today: In March 2007, after police shot to death 14 people protesting against investment plans of the Salim Group of Indonesia, the chemical hub in West Bengal Nandigram was cancelled. Nor is it just foreign companies that have faced fierce resistance. Protesters have targeted India-based billionaires including the Tatas who planned to set up a major car factory in Singur, West Bengal. And like the Company, corporate impunity remains a constant concern. Roger Moody, a British campaigner from Mines and Communities, notes that Vedanta's subsidiary, Sterlite Gold, stands accused of a raft of criminal acts in Armenia, including mining more gold than permitted by the government, deliberately under-valuing its reserves, and failing to properly dispose of mine wastes. Last November, in Zambia, Vedanta was indicted for willfully using a defective pipeline to dispose of highly toxic tailings from the country's largest copper mine, KCM, which it purchased two years earlier. It had also been constructing Zambia's premier copper smelter without obtaining official permission from the Zambian government. Last week, the Majhis took home a small concession from London. A Vedanta spokesperson said the company's chairman, Anil Agarwal, would be "very happy" to visit the controversial area with the villagers. But, the villagers understood that would not be enough. "We are not going to allow this [destruction] to happen," Kumuti Majhi told a news conference in New Delhi. "We have been living in this mountain range for generations, and we worship Niyamgiri as a living god." Warm words were equally insufficient for Rafael and the other Armenian merchants back in the time of the East India Company. When the Company’s directors arrogantly brushed them aside, they went to court, suing the Company’s chief executive in the region, Harry Verelst, for damages. An intense legal battle then unfolded with claim and counter-claim lasting until 1777, when the courts found Verlest guilty of “oppression, false imprisonment and singular depredations.” The Armenians won a total of £9,700 in compensation -- over £800,000 in today’s money. Thousands of miles away from the scene of the crime, the principle of extraterritorial liability for corporate malpractice had been established in Georgian London. Will Vedanta and others repeat the excesses of the British East India Company, or can systems of accountability finally be established that protect the rights of the weakest -- just as Burke hoped for centuries ago? Much depends on what investors, regulators and society learn from the lessons of the past. Corporations, like people, have life spans. The British East India Company is long dead, but the quest for wealth it embodied endures. So, too -- as evidenced by popular movements and persistent campaigners like Kumuti Majhi and Phulme Majhi -- does resistance. * Nick Robins is author of The Corporation that Changed the World: How the East India Company Shaped the Modern Multinational (Pluto, 2006) From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 21:33:01 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] films on partition and East Bengal refugees In-Reply-To: <002a01c7e0dc$810b5920$68ba41db@MRAY> Message-ID: <70097.53988.qm@web51408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear MRSG Partition is not a past thing, and the recent films on the subject certainly do not ignore Bangla refugees. Although my knowledge is limited and I would like someone from Bengal/Bangladesh to enlighten us about some new films being made on the topic, but below I am giving a list of some very interesting new and old (docu) films that have been made specifically on the sufferings by the partition migrants. "Dateline Bangladesh" - During the years 1970, 1971, Gita Mehta was a television war correspondent for the US television network NBC. Her film compilation of the Bangladesh revolution, Dateline Bangladesh, was shown in cinema theatres both in India and abroad. "Tale of the Darkest Night" This film tells the story of the killings by the Pakistani army in Dhaka University. Surviving members and witnesses speak, and bring alive the havoc of that night. Second Best Film Award, Film South Asia '03 "Song of Freedom" - Song of Freedom is a documentary film which explores the impact of cultural identity on the liberation war, where music and song provided a source of inspiration to the freedom fighters and a spiritual bond for the whole emerging nation. A group of Bengali cultural activists traveled through refugee camps and battle zones performing rousing songs which capture the essence of the Bengali nation. Directed by Catherine and Tareque Masud "Tears of Fire" - A Documentary by Sentu Roy related to the 1971 Genocide in Bangladesh committed by Pakistan Army and the agents. The director interviews international journalists, activists and expatriate who were witness to the Genocide. "Liberation Struggle of the Bengalis" - A twenty five minutes long documentary by the Liberation War Museum describing the havoc of 1971 war. "Nine Months to Freedom": The Story of Bangladesh - Directed by S. Sukhdev, a special documentary on the refugee camps set up at the no man's land (Bangladesh-India border) during our Liberation War. The documentary depicts the plight of eight lakh Bengali refugees and tells of the East Pakistan war between Pakistan and the freedom fighters of Bangladesh helped by the Indian army, leading to the creation of the free state Bangladesh. "Ekush Shotoke Bangladesh" - Based on the book "Ekush Shotoke Bangali" by Shirajul Alam, "Ekush Shotoke Bangladesh" is a documentary by International Historical Network, speaking about the history of Bengalis, the aboriginal people of Bengal and its later inhabitants. (some of the above films can probably be downloaded at http://www.banglagallery.net/vdo/index.php) Now for some recent films on the partition in the non-Bangla side: "A Season Outside" (Amar Kanwar) 30 mins A personal and philosophical journey through the shadows of past generations – a film that starts at Wagah border. "The Sky Below" (Sarah Singh) 75 mins The film explores the multi-dimensional relationship between India and Pakistan post 1947. "Rabba Hun Ki Kariye" (Ajay Bhardwaj) 65 mins Thus departed our neighbours. People from (Indian) Punjab reveal the painful memories of partition. "Khayal Darpan" (Yousuf Saeed) 100 mins Impact of 1947 partition on the classical music traditions of Pakistan "Crossing the Line" (Anita Brar) A film about the partition experiences of Indians and Pakistanis residing in Australia "Stories of the Broken Self" (Furrukh Khan) A Pakistani scholar visits Delhi to explore the stories of partition. Besides the above, there are many films produced by the Films Division at the time of Partition. Yousuf --- MRSG wrote: > From a number of references it seems partition is a > past thing - now we can > sit back comfortably and chat, make film or write > book on it. BUT IT IS NOT. > Hindu refugees have never stopped coming from East > Pakistan / Bangladesh. > everyday they are running away from the Islamic > country. The population of > the hindus have come down from 29% to 9%, biggest > ethnic cleansing in recent > history. And when I am writing these lines some > people are crossing the > border. Partition is still a reality in West Bengal > and North east. Well > nobody will dare to write or make a film on that. > You all know why. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rahul Asthana" > To: "mahmood farooqui" ; > > ; > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the > IHC 14 August > > > > Mahmood Bhai, > > I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May > I > > ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is > priceless > > work and it should be archived. > > regards > > Rahul > > --- mahmood farooqui > > wrote: > > > >> > You are cordially invited to > >> > > >> > Partition Dastans- > >> > > >> > New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around > parrtition > >> > > >> > on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, > >> India Habitat Centre. > >> > > >> > Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre > or > >> Zuban. > >> > > >> > Please come early. > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and > >> the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > >> > in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: > >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >> the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the > >> subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: > >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in > alternative vehicles. > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From zubinpastakia at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 21:51:27 2007 From: zubinpastakia at gmail.com (Zubin Pastakia) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:51:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thoughts on Photographing Bombay's Cinema Halls Message-ID: <379173b10708170921o6c5af5a8h9790840cfd6b9aee@mail.gmail.com> Hello, This is my fifth post to the Reader-List related to my fellowship project "A Photographic Study of Bombay's Cinema Halls as a Cultural Experience of Space." For this month's post, I thought I would change things up a bit and write about the nature of "documentation" in the photographic sense. I have consciously avoided the term documentation as I find it problematic - I'd prefer to call it a study of or a meditation on cinema halls in Bombay. As a photographer, I am motivated to photograph - to "record" – not only due to aesthetics (colour, shape, pattern, light etc.) but also because recording the subject/object would move my overall narrative forward. The problem arises when these latter subjects/objects are difficult to represent photographically, as they fail on all of the above-mentioned aesthetic criteria. I am not talking about photographing something "ugly" per se, as I do not believe that photographs need to be "pretty"; it is more a case of the scene lacking the necessary criteria to be able to convey meaning in the photographic form. Is it then worth photographing? I constantly come across this tension in my cinema hall work. It is hard to keep the camera "democratic" at all times. I justify this by reminding myself that photography is not an exact science but a point of view - adding another piece to the puzzle. As the late John Szarkowski wrote, the goal of photography/art "is not to make something factually impeccable, but seamlessly persuasive." *** Although this is not a project that is purely serial in nature - where each individual photograph loses its unique aura and content, ala Ed Ruscha in his "Nine Swimming Pools and a Broken Glass" - the very fact that I am photographing only cinema halls means that it is a serial project if we look at each hall as a set. At first, I often felt displeased that I was slipping into a formula in photographing the halls. I was always looking for certain things. This used to bother me – I was becoming formulaic. However, of late I have found that it is not necessarily a bad thing to look for the same things in different halls. Eventually, when I take stock of all the photographs in my project, I feel that I will be able to see how similar and yet different these spaces are. Photographs tell us what things look like. The project site is at: http://peripheralvision.blogspot.com Best, Zubin From mrsg at vsnl.com Fri Aug 17 22:49:35 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:49:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] films on partition and East Bengal refugees References: <70097.53988.qm@web51408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c7e0f2$cac11f30$d4ba41db@MRAY> Dear Yousuf, You are totally wrong. The films you are talking about are all about the liberation of Bangladesh from Pakistan. In that liberation also 90% people killed were Hindus numbering about 25 lakhs. But that liberation lasted a few years for the hindus-buddhists-tribals of Bangladesh. Then it again became same as Pakistan. The films you have mentioned have nothing to do with the continuous presecution and ethnic cleansing of non-muslims in Bangladesh. No one has ever made any flim on them. West Bengal posing as a secular citadel has always kept mum about this Islamic onslaught. In 2001 after the election in Bangladesh more than 1 lakh refugees entered India. For more details you may see the websites of Bangladesh Hindu Buddhists Christian Unity Council or Human Rights Congress of Bangladesh Minorities. M Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: "MRSG" ; ; ; "mahmood farooqui" ; "Rahul Asthana" Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] films on partition and East Bengal refugees > Dear MRSG > Partition is not a past thing, and the recent films on > the subject certainly do not ignore Bangla refugees. > Although my knowledge is limited and I would like > someone from Bengal/Bangladesh to enlighten us about > some new films being made on the topic, but below I am > giving a list of some very interesting new and old > (docu) films that have been made specifically on the > sufferings by the partition migrants. > > "Dateline Bangladesh" - During the years 1970, 1971, > Gita Mehta was a television war correspondent for the > US television network NBC. Her film compilation of the > Bangladesh revolution, Dateline Bangladesh, was shown > in cinema theatres both in India and abroad. > > "Tale of the Darkest Night" > This film tells the story of the killings by the > Pakistani army in Dhaka University. Surviving members > and witnesses speak, and bring alive the havoc of that > night. Second Best Film Award, Film South Asia '03 > > "Song of Freedom" - Song of Freedom is a documentary > film which explores the impact of cultural identity on > the liberation war, where music and song provided a > source of inspiration to the freedom fighters and a > spiritual bond for the whole emerging nation. A group > of Bengali cultural activists traveled through refugee > camps and battle zones performing rousing songs which > capture the essence of the Bengali nation. Directed by > Catherine and Tareque Masud > > "Tears of Fire" - A Documentary by Sentu Roy related > to the 1971 Genocide in Bangladesh committed by > Pakistan Army and the agents. The director interviews > international journalists, activists and expatriate > who were witness to the Genocide. > > "Liberation Struggle of the Bengalis" - A twenty five > minutes long documentary by the Liberation War Museum > describing the havoc of 1971 war. > > "Nine Months to Freedom": The Story of Bangladesh - > Directed by S. Sukhdev, a special documentary on the > refugee camps set up at the no man's land > (Bangladesh-India border) during our Liberation War. > The documentary depicts the plight of eight lakh > Bengali refugees and tells of the East Pakistan war > between Pakistan and the freedom fighters of > Bangladesh helped by the Indian army, leading to the > creation of the free state Bangladesh. > > "Ekush Shotoke Bangladesh" - Based on the book "Ekush > Shotoke Bangali" by Shirajul Alam, "Ekush Shotoke > Bangladesh" is a documentary by International > Historical Network, speaking about the history of > Bengalis, the aboriginal people of Bengal and its > later inhabitants. > > (some of the above films can probably be downloaded at > http://www.banglagallery.net/vdo/index.php) > > Now for some recent films on the partition in the > non-Bangla side: > > "A Season Outside" (Amar Kanwar) 30 mins > A personal and philosophical journey through the > shadows of past generations - a film that starts at > Wagah border. > > "The Sky Below" (Sarah Singh) 75 mins > The film explores the multi-dimensional relationship > between India and Pakistan post 1947. > > "Rabba Hun Ki Kariye" (Ajay Bhardwaj) 65 mins > Thus departed our neighbours. People from (Indian) > Punjab reveal the painful memories of partition. > > "Khayal Darpan" (Yousuf Saeed) 100 mins > Impact of 1947 partition on the classical music > traditions of Pakistan > > "Crossing the Line" (Anita Brar) > A film about the partition experiences of Indians and > Pakistanis residing in Australia > > "Stories of the Broken Self" (Furrukh Khan) > A Pakistani scholar visits Delhi to explore the > stories of partition. > > Besides the above, there are many films produced by > the Films Division at the time of Partition. > > > Yousuf > > --- MRSG wrote: > >> From a number of references it seems partition is a >> past thing - now we can >> sit back comfortably and chat, make film or write >> book on it. BUT IT IS NOT. >> Hindu refugees have never stopped coming from East >> Pakistan / Bangladesh. >> everyday they are running away from the Islamic >> country. The population of >> the hindus have come down from 29% to 9%, biggest >> ethnic cleansing in recent >> history. And when I am writing these lines some >> people are crossing the >> border. Partition is still a reality in West Bengal >> and North east. Well >> nobody will dare to write or make a film on that. >> You all know why. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rahul Asthana" >> To: "mahmood farooqui" ; >> >> ; >> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the >> IHC 14 August >> >> >> > Mahmood Bhai, >> > I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May >> I >> > ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is >> priceless >> > work and it should be archived. >> > regards >> > Rahul >> > --- mahmood farooqui >> > wrote: >> > >> >> > You are cordially invited to >> >> > >> >> > Partition Dastans- >> >> > >> >> > New form of Dastangoi--Dastans around >> parrtition >> >> > >> >> > on 14th August, 6 pm at the Stein Auditorium, >> >> India Habitat Centre. >> >> > >> >> > Passes from Max Mueller Bhawan, Habitat Centre >> or >> >> Zuban. >> >> > >> >> > Please come early. >> >> > _________________________________________ >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media >> and >> >> the city. >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe >> >> > in the subject header. >> >> > To unsubscribe: >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> > List archive: >> >> >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> >> the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the >> >> subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: >> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in >> alternative vehicles. >> > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. >> > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the >> subject header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel.yahoo.com/ From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 18 08:46:29 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] films on partition and East Bengal refugees In-Reply-To: <000801c7e0f2$cac11f30$d4ba41db@MRAY> Message-ID: <174989.91656.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> No MRSG, I don't think all of them are about liberation. Many of them have been produced in India - it would be good if you could download and see them from the link I mentioned. Many of them talk about the sorry state in which the Bengal migrants are. And I am sure some recent ones do talk about the Hindu minorities in Bangladesh. I am copying below a mail send by Shohini Ghosh (who couldn't post to Sarai) which lists some recent films from Bangladesh that are sepecifically addressing the communal issue. Dear Yousuf: For some reason I can't post on the Reader's list so I am sending you this mail directly. You may want to add the following to the list of films from Bangladesh.The last two are devoted to the contemporary - actually so is Nina's film. 1. The Clay Bird - Tareque and Catherine 2. A Certain Liberation- Yasmina Nina Kabir 3. Teardrops of Karnaphuli- Tanvir Mokammel 4. Muslims or Heretics? - Naeem Mohammad All these films address the crisis of communalism. Love Shohini --- MRSG wrote: > Dear Yousuf, You are totally wrong. The films you > are talking about are all > about the liberation of Bangladesh from Pakistan. In > that liberation also > 90% people killed were Hindus numbering about 25 > lakhs. But that liberation > lasted a few years for the hindus-buddhists-tribals > of Bangladesh. Then it > again became same as Pakistan. The films you have > mentioned have nothing to > do with the continuous presecution and ethnic > cleansing of non-muslims in > Bangladesh. No one has ever made any flim on them. > West Bengal posing as a > secular citadel has always kept mum about this > Islamic onslaught. In 2001 > after the election in Bangladesh more than 1 lakh > refugees entered India. > For more details you may see the websites of > Bangladesh Hindu Buddhists > Christian Unity Council or Human Rights Congress of > Bangladesh Minorities. > M Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yousuf" > To: "MRSG" ; ; > ; > "mahmood farooqui" ; > "Rahul Asthana" > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] films on partition and > East Bengal refugees > > > > Dear MRSG > > Partition is not a past thing, and the recent > films on > > the subject certainly do not ignore Bangla > refugees. > > Although my knowledge is limited and I would like > > someone from Bengal/Bangladesh to enlighten us > about > > some new films being made on the topic, but below > I am > > giving a list of some very interesting new and old > > (docu) films that have been made specifically on > the > > sufferings by the partition migrants. > > > > "Dateline Bangladesh" - During the years 1970, > 1971, > > Gita Mehta was a television war correspondent for > the > > US television network NBC. Her film compilation of > the > > Bangladesh revolution, Dateline Bangladesh, was > shown > > in cinema theatres both in India and abroad. > > > > "Tale of the Darkest Night" > > This film tells the story of the killings by the > > Pakistani army in Dhaka University. Surviving > members > > and witnesses speak, and bring alive the havoc of > that > > night. Second Best Film Award, Film South Asia '03 > > > > "Song of Freedom" - Song of Freedom is a > documentary > > film which explores the impact of cultural > identity on > > the liberation war, where music and song provided > a > > source of inspiration to the freedom fighters and > a > > spiritual bond for the whole emerging nation. A > group > > of Bengali cultural activists traveled through > refugee > > camps and battle zones performing rousing songs > which > > capture the essence of the Bengali nation. > Directed by > > Catherine and Tareque Masud > > > > "Tears of Fire" - A Documentary by Sentu Roy > related > > to the 1971 Genocide in Bangladesh committed by > > Pakistan Army and the agents. The director > interviews > > international journalists, activists and > expatriate > > who were witness to the Genocide. > > > > "Liberation Struggle of the Bengalis" - A twenty > five > > minutes long documentary by the Liberation War > Museum > > describing the havoc of 1971 war. > > > > "Nine Months to Freedom": The Story of Bangladesh > - > > Directed by S. Sukhdev, a special documentary on > the > > refugee camps set up at the no man's land > > (Bangladesh-India border) during our Liberation > War. > > The documentary depicts the plight of eight lakh > > Bengali refugees and tells of the East Pakistan > war > > between Pakistan and the freedom fighters of > > Bangladesh helped by the Indian army, leading to > the > > creation of the free state Bangladesh. > > > > "Ekush Shotoke Bangladesh" - Based on the book > "Ekush > > Shotoke Bangali" by Shirajul Alam, "Ekush Shotoke > > Bangladesh" is a documentary by International > > Historical Network, speaking about the history of > > Bengalis, the aboriginal people of Bengal and its > > later inhabitants. > > > > (some of the above films can probably be > downloaded at > > http://www.banglagallery.net/vdo/index.php) > > > > Now for some recent films on the partition in the > > non-Bangla side: > > > > "A Season Outside" (Amar Kanwar) 30 mins > > A personal and philosophical journey through the > > shadows of past generations - a film that starts > at > > Wagah border. > > > > "The Sky Below" (Sarah Singh) 75 mins > > The film explores the multi-dimensional > relationship > > between India and Pakistan post 1947. > > > > "Rabba Hun Ki Kariye" (Ajay Bhardwaj) 65 mins > > Thus departed our neighbours. People from (Indian) > > Punjab reveal the painful memories of partition. > > > > "Khayal Darpan" (Yousuf Saeed) 100 mins > > Impact of 1947 partition on the classical music > > traditions of Pakistan > > > > "Crossing the Line" (Anita Brar) > > A film about the partition experiences of Indians > and > > Pakistanis residing in Australia > > > > "Stories of the Broken Self" (Furrukh Khan) > > A Pakistani scholar visits Delhi to explore the > > stories of partition. > > > > Besides the above, there are many films produced > by > > the Films Division at the time of Partition. > > > > > > Yousuf > > > > --- MRSG wrote: > > > >> From a number of references it seems partition is > a > >> past thing - now we can > >> sit back comfortably and chat, make film or write > >> book on it. BUT IT IS NOT. > >> Hindu refugees have never stopped coming from > East > >> Pakistan / Bangladesh. > >> everyday they are running away from the Islamic > >> country. The population of > >> the hindus have come down from 29% to 9%, biggest > >> ethnic cleansing in recent > >> history. And when I am writing these lines some > >> people are crossing the > >> border. Partition is still a reality in West > Bengal > >> and North east. Well > >> nobody will dare to write or make a film on that. > >> You all know why. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rahul Asthana" > >> To: "mahmood farooqui" > ; > >> > >> ; > >> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at > the > >> IHC 14 August > >> > >> > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 18 08:46:45 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Films from Bangladesh Message-ID: <416092.91656.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Shohini Ghosh wrote: > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:07:39 +0530 > From: Shohini Ghosh > Subject: Films from Bangladesh > To: Yousuf > > Dear Yousuf: > > For some reason I can't post on the Reader's list so > I am sending you this mail directly. You may want to > add the following to the list of films from > Bangladesh.The last two are devoted to the > contemporary - actually so is Nina's film. . > > 1. The Clay Bird - Tareque and Catherine > 2. A Certain Liberation- Yasmina Nina Kabir > 3. Teardrops of Karnaphuli- Tanvir Mokammel > 4. Muslims or Heretics? - Naeem Mohammad > > All these films address the crisis of communalism. > Love > Shohini > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ From monica at sarai.net Sat Aug 18 14:29:37 2007 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:29:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Fwd: HIC: Urgent call to Action: Solidarity with a german activist inhousing and other political prisoners from inhabitants andpeoples' organizations]] In-Reply-To: <92118452-4A1D-4455-8449-82745F0EB9BF@sarai.net> References: <92118452-4A1D-4455-8449-82745F0EB9BF@sarai.net> Message-ID: <2D4E63A2-AABC-45D9-870D-8F8184558AC4@sarai.net> The info about this has been circulating on other lists and online petitions have also been set up. Links: - The letter from Hartmut Häussermann's et al. (German only). - The INURA-letter (English + German) On 16-Aug-07, at 2:42 PM, Monica Narula wrote: > Now urban researchers can be deemed terrorists, apparently, because > they "have not limited their > research findings to an ivory tower, but have made their expertise > available to citizens’ initiatives and tenants’ organizations." > > ... > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Betreff: HIC: Urgent call to Action: Solidarity with a german activist > in housing and other political prisoners from inhabitants and peoples' > organizations > Datum: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:37:52 -0400 > Von: Ana Sugranyes > An: hic Postino > > URGENT CALL TO ACTION: SIGN AND SEND THE OPEN LETTER ATTACHED > > Source: Knut Unger (email: knut.unger at habitat-netz.de) > > Colleagues from INURA Berlin (HIC Members) have put together various > materials in order to raise international attention and support > regarding the case of the 7 persons accused (out of which 4 were > jailed) > last week in Berlin for alleged suspected 'memberships of a terrorist > association'. > 3 of these are fellow urban researchers, one of whom, an activist in > housing and tenants movements who is currently in jail, has agreed > to be > named: > Andrej Holm, urban sociologist and established researcher on > gentrification in Berlin. > > Please find below a statement in English, which INURA is trying to > circulate in academic and related circles in order to build > international support. > Next week we will try to send more informations and reports about > reactions and political background > > > On 31st July 2007 seven persons were charged by the Attorney of the > German Federal Supreme Court for alleged suspected 'memberships of a > terrorist > association'. Four of these have since been in pre-trial > confinement in > a Berlin jail. Three of the seven accused individuals are fellow urban > researchers, one of whom, who is currently in jail, has agreed to be > named: > > Andrej Holm, urban sociologist and established researcher on > gentrification in Berlin. > > An OPEN LETTER hereunder and attached, summarising the background > of the > case, the arguments used by the Attorney of the German Federal Supreme > Court and the demand made by the solidarity movement. > > Individuals or organisations are invited to demonstrate support by > sending > protest letters, petitions and declarations to the Attorney of the > German > Federal Supreme Court, i.e.: > > Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof > c/o Ermittlungsrichter Hebenstreit > Herrenstraße 45 > D-76133 Karlsruhe > Germany > > and > > Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof > Brauerstraße 30 > D-76137 Karlsruhe > Germany > Fax + 49 7 21 819 14 92 > eMail: presse at generalbundesanwalt.de > > > An e-mail address has been set up by the Berlin colleagues who are > coordinating > action around Andrej Holm and the other accused: it would be > helpful if > individuals and organisations could send a message to this address to > inform > the Berlin colleagues about the support action they are taking > (solidarity addresses, declarations that are to be published) and > address any question they > may have: kontaktschuld at so36.net > > For information, the German lawyer and press contact for the accused, > including Andrej Holm, is: > Wolfgang Kaleck > Immanuelkirchstrasse3-4 > D-10405 Berlin > Germany > Phone: +49-(0)30-4467-9218 > Fax: +49-(0)30-4467-9220 > > In short, the main demands of the solidarity movement are: > - Release of the prisoners > - Stop the proceedings under § 129a of German penal law > - End the § 129, 129a, and 129b laws > - Stop criminalizing progressive research and action > > Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof** > c/o Ermittlungsrichter Hebenstreit** > Herrenstraße 45** > D-76133 Karlsruhe** > Germany* > > Der Generalbundesanwalt beim Bundesgerichtshof* > Brauerstraße 30* > D-76137 Karlsruhe* > Germany* > > > Open letter against the criminalization of critical academic research > and political engagement* > > > On 31st July 2007 the flats and workplaces of Dr. Andrej Holm and Dr. > Matthias B., as well as of two other persons, were searched by the > police. Dr. Andrej Holm was arrested, flown by helicopter to the > German > Federal Court in Karlsruhe and brought before the custodial judge. > Since > then he has been held in pretrial confinement in a Berlin jail. All > four > people have been charged with “membership in a terrorist association > according to § 129a StGB” (German Penal Code, section 7 on ‘Crimes > against Public Order’). They are alleged to be members of a so-called > /‘militante gruppe’ (mg). /The text of the search warrant revealed > that > preliminary proceedings against these four people have been going on > since September 2006 and that the four had since been under constant > surveillance. > > A few hours before the house searches, Florian L., Oliver R. und > Axel H. > were arrested in the Brandenburg/ /region and accused of attempted > arson > on four vehicles of the German Federal Army. Andrej Holm is alleged to > have met one of these three persons on two occasions in the first half > of 2007 in supposedly “conspiratorial circumstances”. > > The Federal Prosecutor (/Bundesanwaltschaft/) therefore assumes > that the > four above mentioned persons as well as the three individuals arrested > in Brandenburg are members of a “militant group,” and is thus > investigating all seven on account of suspected “membership in a > terrorist association” according to §129a StGB. > > According to the arrest warrant against Andrej Holm, the charge made > against the above mentioned four individuals is presently justified on > the following grounds, in the order that the federal prosecutor has > listed them: > > - Dr. Matthias B. is alleged to have used, in his academic > publications, > “phrases and key words” which are also used by the ‘/militante > gruppe’;/ > > - As political scientist holding a PhD, Matthias B. is seen to be > intellectually capable to “author the sophisticated texts of the > ‘/militante gruppe’ (mg)”./ Additionally, “as employee in a research > institute he has access to libraries which he can use > inconspicuously in > order to do the research necessary to the drafting of texts of the > /‘militante gruppe’”;/ > > - Another accused individual is said to have met with suspects in a > conspiratorial manner: “meetings were regularly arranged without, > however, mentioning place, time and content of the meetings”; > furthermore, he is said to have been active in the “extreme left-wing > scene”; > > - In the case of a third accused individual, an address book was found > which included the names and addresses of the other three accused; > > - Dr. Andrej H., who works as urban sociologist, is claimed to have > close contacts with all three individuals who have been charged but > still remain free; > > - Dr. Andrej H. is alleged to have been active in the “resistance > mounted by the extreme left-wing scene against the World Economic > Summit > of 2007 in Heiligendamm”; > > - The fact that he – allegedly intentionally -- did not take his > mobile > phone with him to a meeting is considered as “conspiratorial > behavior”. > > > Andrej H., as well as Florian L., Oliver R. and Axel H., are detained > since 1st August 2007 in Berlin-Moabit under very strict conditions: > they are locked in solitary confinement 23 hours a day and are allowed > only one hour of courtyard walk. Visits are limited to a total of half > an hour every two weeks. Contacts, including contacts with lawyers, > are > allowed only through separation panes. The mail of the defense is > checked. > > > > The charges described in the arrest warrants reveal a construct > based on > very dubious reasoning by analogy. The reasoning involves four basic > hypotheses, none of which the Federal High Court could substantiate > with > any concrete evidence, but through their combination they are to leave > the impression of a “terrorist association”. The social scientists, > because of their academic research activity, their intellectual > capacities and their access to libraries, are said to be the brains of > the alleged “terrorist organization”. For, according to the Federal > prosecutor, an association called /“militante gruppe”/ is said to use > the same concepts as the accused social scientists. As evidence for > this > reasoning, the concept of “gentrification” is named - one of the key > research themes of Andrej Holm und Matthias B. in past years, about > which they have published internationally. They have not limited their > research findings to an ivory tower, but have made their expertise > available to citizens’ initiatives and tenants’ organizations.* > This is > how critical social scientists are constructed as intellectual gang > leaders.* > > Since Andrej Holm has friends, relatives and colleagues, they now also > are suspect to be “terrorists”, because they know Andrej. Another > accused individual was blamed for having the names of Andrej Holm > and of > two others charged (but not jailed) in his address book. Since the > latter are also deemed to be “terrorists” – *this is how “guilt by > association” is established.* > > Paragraph § 129a, introduced in Germany in 1976, makes it possible for > our colleagues to be criminalized as “terrorists”. *This is how, > through > § 129a, the existence of a “terrorist group” is claimed.* > > Through these constructs, every academic research activity and > political > work is presented as potentially criminal – in particular when > politically engaged colleagues who intervene in social struggles are > concerned. *This is how critical research, in particular research > linked > with political engagement, is turned into ideological ring leadership > and “terrorism”.* > > We demand that the Federal Prosecutor (/Bundesanwaltschaft/) > immediately > suspend the *§ *129a-proceedings against all parties concerned and > release Andrej Holm and the other imprisoned from jail at once. We > strongly reject the outrageous accusation that the academic research > activities and the political engagement of Andrej Holm are to be > viewed > as complicity in an alleged “terrorist association”. No arrest warrant > can be deduced from the academic research and political work of Andrej > Holm. The Federal Prosecutor, through applying Article § 129, is > threatening the freedom of research and teaching as well as > social-political engagement. > > > Signature(s) > > Date > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 16:03:06 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:33:06 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Bangladesh Films Message-ID: Re: Bangladeshi film thread Most of the films listed in the original sarai thread suffer from melodrama and excess. With many films about 1971, pent-up fury/frustration about the losing side of 1971 never facing trials (Jamaat e Islami, Pakistan army, etc) expresses itself in crude hagiography which ends up doing disservice to the entire topic. The films I recommend out of the sarai list are: >"Song of Freedom" (Mukthir Gaan) It uses 35mm footage shot by Lear Levin and his team in 1971. Levin never finished his film, and years later the Masuds tracked him down and with his permission recreated a docu-drama from his footage. Later Levin received state honors in Bangladesh after the film came out. > The Clay Bird - Tareque and Catherine See website: http://www.matirmoina.com/ >A Certain Liberation- Yasmina Nina Kabir Yasmine, not Yasmina An excellent film. The best of the bunch. Short (20 mins or less) but packs a nasty bite. She also has an excellent doc about a Bangladeshi migrant worker killed in Malaysia "My Migrant Soul". > Teardrops of Karnaphuli- Tanvir Mokammel Doc about CHT crisis. I don't understand how this is force-fit into the "address the crisis of communalism" topic. The crisis in CHT is about land, ethnicity, displacement, militarization. It is imaginable to drop into a religion frame because the Bengali settlers are Muslim, and the Paharis are Buddhist/Animist, etc, but being Muslim would not have saved the Paharis. > 4. Muslims or Heretics? - Naeem Mohammad I pulled this version of the film from circulation after experiencing extreme discomfort over how the film was being hijacked by precisely these kinds of "crisis of communalism" equations (even though there are bootlegs). The newer version "Muslims or Heretics: My Camera Can Lie"-- I have shown excerpts only. From mrsg at vsnl.com Sat Aug 18 18:21:56 2007 From: mrsg at vsnl.com (MRSG) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:21:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Films from Bangladesh References: <416092.91656.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002b01c7e196$90bedd00$8cbb41db@MRAY> Dear Yousuf, I have not seen the films mentioned by Ms Shoni Ghosh, but I know about some of them. Those are about the crisis of communalism in Bangladesh society. Bangladesh has/had a small but vibrant intellectuals fighting the islamic communalism like Humayun Azad (killed by islamists), Taslima Nasrin (in exile), Salam Azad (in exile), Shariar Kabir (physically harmed by islamists), National Professor Kabir Chowdhury, Professor Muntasir Mamun (History, Dhaka University, jailed a number of times) and others. Prof Abul Barkat (Economics, Dhaka University) has done excellent detailed works on the beconomic aspects of ethnic cleansing of theHindus from Bangladesh, Bangladesh press (before the censorship of the present military regime) also has done commendable work in publishing the regular attacks on the minority Hindu-Buddhist-Christians-Adibasis. However Bengali and Indian secular press and intellectuals have alwaya maintained silence about that. And no film on that huge issue of one of the largest continuing ethnic cleansing of history. Thanks' M R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: "sarai list" Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Films from Bangladesh > > --- Shohini Ghosh wrote: > >> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:07:39 +0530 >> From: Shohini Ghosh >> Subject: Films from Bangladesh >> To: Yousuf >> >> Dear Yousuf: >> >> For some reason I can't post on the Reader's list so >> I am sending you this mail directly. You may want to >> add the following to the list of films from >> Bangladesh.The last two are devoted to the >> contemporary - actually so is Nina's film. . >> >> 1. The Clay Bird - Tareque and Catherine >> 2. A Certain Liberation- Yasmina Nina Kabir >> 3. Teardrops of Karnaphuli- Tanvir Mokammel >> 4. Muslims or Heretics? - Naeem Mohammad >> >> All these films address the crisis of communalism. >> Love >> Shohini >> >> >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nutan_du at yahoo.co.in Sat Aug 18 18:58:29 2007 From: nutan_du at yahoo.co.in (nutan maurya) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:28:29 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Hindi cultral magzine samkaleen janmat-blog Message-ID: <775091.99840.qm@web8706.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear reader Here I am giving you link of a blog of famous socio-cultural magzine Samkaleen Janmat. http://samkaleenjanmat.blogspot.com/ Thanks. --------------------------------- Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. From ratishn at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 23:36:22 2007 From: ratishn at gmail.com (Ratish Nanda) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:36:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Yamuna is being shifted - read on... Message-ID: Dear Friends, Yesterday a bizzare plan was unfolded (in the name of public debate) for river Yamuna in the Magnolia Hall of India Habitat Centre. Jointly organised by Delhi Tourism and TERI, a grandiose 18,000 crores plan (later admitted to be nothing more than a dream) was unveiled by a consulting firm called Fairwood Consultants Pvt Ltd. The plan in a nut shell proposes: a) Build large reservoirs on River Yamuna and River Hindon in Delhi and in UP upstream of Delhi to catch rain water and to join the two reservoirs through a canal to divert flood waters of river Yamuna away from the main stream flowing through the city into another reservoir downstream of Delhi at the confluence of Hindon with Yamuna in UP/Haryana. b) Channelise the river Yamuna and Hindon within the city stretch of 22 km and 44 km respectively and develope the river fronts The plan falls flat and its sinister design becomes apparent once one gets to the plan's premise and its viability even on the basis of extremely limited knowledge made available about it in the public domain. The premise for the grandiose design is a) The city of Delhi needs water for its growing population (*Agreed*) b) Since the river is as good as dead in the city and the flood plain in the city is prone to encroachment and slumisation so *the state must do something about it* in a planned manner rather in a piecemeal fashion that is going on at the moment ( *This is some admission after hundreds of crores of foreign aid has gone down the drain in the name of Yamuna Action Plan !!!!. Why and how are the slums created. It was the Asiad in 1982 which engendered the most slums in the city consisting of construction workers who decended on the town for the feverish construction activity for the games and never went back. The vicious cycle is waiting to happen again in the city in the wake of some Rs 20,000 crore - figure quoted to us by a senior government official - worth of investments planned for the Commonwealth Games now *) c) The river is already channelised in a sense that since most bridges on it are nothing but raised roads (*It has been a monumental mistake in the city which should be remedied through ameliorative actions which are feasible rather seen as a fait accompli and hence an excuse for further channelisation of the river *) d) Most cities in the world have developed river fronts (*All such cities are western cities with rivers which have little in parallel to our monsoon fed rivers and hence such wishful comparisons are baseless and dangerous. Even there in London and Paris they are learning at great cost the dangers from floods of such developments on the river banks *) f) Real estates opportunities of such a plan are immense (*THIS IS ACTUALLY THE REAL AGENDA OF THIS PLAN. Even if given where is the infrastructure required for such massive real estate development in the city which is already bursting at its seams *) *In short the plan suggests that since we have not spared any effort to kill the river then rather think of reviving it let us kill it in a planned manner than in any piecemeal fashion.* Indeed a smart way to fulfill this state's all too clear agenda of selling the river bed to the highest bidder. *Yes, the state must do something about the river. But it is to revive the river in its entirety and as a free flowing river with its flood plains intact for now and forever. It has the mandate and it has the means. If only it also had the right intent and the will !!!!! * No wonder every shylock in the town led by the Delhi Tourism (remember they were the guys behind the impugned month long shopping extravaganza called the Times Global Village in the river bed early this year just north of DND flyway which the HC of Delhi has already found to be illegal from day one) and Delhi government have jumped onto it. What surprises and amazes one is the fact that a presumably respectable organisation like TERI (trying to lead the Climate Change agenda all over the world) has no qualms in associating itself with such a hairbrained and preposterous an idea / concept whose viability is at great question if on nothing else but the uncertainities associated with the impacts of Climate Change (obviously the presenter was not even aware of such a term or threat). That they had no clue about what they were talking about becomes clear from one of their slides which bemoans lack of "marine" life in river Yamuna in Delhi and their vision being to bring it back. (surely with greater money they can certainly dream at least of getting the Bay of Bengal to get them sea water in Delhi so that they could get the marine life into a fresh water system). Jokes apart the proposal is preposterous to say the least. One shudders to think as to how easily such ignoramus fly-by-night operators whose only qualification is to weave thosands of crores worth projects and present them as glossy power -pointers to powers that be get easy access to and even nodding heads amongst the current breed of our politician / bureacracy and even experts like Dr Pachauri at TERI? The knowledgeable in the gathering made it amply clear that you can't create the kind of reservoirs planned in plains in a sustained manner since the first monsoon would silt them up badly. And if that is unviable then anything rest in the said plan is a foolish dream that dries up the next moment. Unfortunately "water" for Delhi has come to be seen to be such a milking cow that any smart alec can get the powers that be to loosen their purse strings for any such fancy idea. (One doesn;t know how many crores of tax payer's money did the Delhi Tourism pay Fairwood Consultants for this misadventure). How foolish can we become when we can't see the value of our existing underground reservoir underneath the existing flood plain (estimated to be worth some 10,000 crores per year over the 50 km stretch in Delhi - in just water terms - by Prof. Soni and his team) and are hell bent on destroying them for some fancy idea that deserves to be nipped in the bud at the first opportunity. We want to create surface reservoirs that may never be and destroy the underground ones that have existed for centuries and today feed 50% of Delhi with capacity for more. This city needs benign floods every monsoon to recharge the underground aquifers and enough flood plains to withstand the ravages of any future 10 yr, 25 yr, 50 yr or 100 yr frequency floods. We owe this to our future generations. No wonder every commentator in that house found problems with the concept called the "Yamuna Redevelopment Plan" which better would have been called the Yamuna - made to order - destruction plan. How far would the rapacious eyes of the state on the Yamuna flood plain go? manoj -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com -- Ratish Nanda Conservation Architect 1559, Sector B, Pocket 1 Vasant Kunj New Delhi 110070 INDIA From nityajacob at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 10:03:48 2007 From: nityajacob at yahoo.com (Nitya Jacob) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Yamuna is being shifted - read on... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <742154.79226.qm@web30813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Ratish This is an eye opener indeed. When leading NGOs who everybody looks up to as representatives of civil society start collaborating with the government and unknown private companies, it is a sad commentary on the state of affairs. There is a campaign to save the Yamuna underway led by some organizations and Rajendra Singh. They are opposed to the Commonwealth Games village, the Akshardham temple and the Metro station and allied works on the floodplains of the river. They are also trying to find ways of reducing pollution that isnt causes so much by the slums on the river banks as by the nallahs that flow into the river from everywhere. Starting with the Najafgarh drain, there are a series of large drains that are responsible for river pollution - poor slums contribute a tiny percentage to the pollution but are an eye sore, admittedly. We need a way to increase citizen's participation in this movement. Delhiites have shown they can act, like they did in the Jessica Lal case, when provoked. What can we do to provoke others into action so that the government's forced to stop its landgrabbing. The flood plains need to preserved - Bihar's floods are precisely because of stupid plans to build bunds along its river and contain them rather than allowing controlled flooding through a network of channels, as was done in the past. Nitya Jacob B1/1572 Vasant Kunj New Delhi Ratish Nanda wrote: Dear Friends, Yesterday a bizzare plan was unfolded (in the name of public debate) for river Yamuna in the Magnolia Hall of India Habitat Centre. Jointly organised by Delhi Tourism and TERI, a grandiose 18,000 crores plan (later admitted to be nothing more than a dream) was unveiled by a consulting firm called Fairwood Consultants Pvt Ltd. The plan in a nut shell proposes: a) Build large reservoirs on River Yamuna and River Hindon in Delhi and in UP upstream of Delhi to catch rain water and to join the two reservoirs through a canal to divert flood waters of river Yamuna away from the main stream flowing through the city into another reservoir downstream of Delhi at the confluence of Hindon with Yamuna in UP/Haryana. b) Channelise the river Yamuna and Hindon within the city stretch of 22 km and 44 km respectively and develope the river fronts The plan falls flat and its sinister design becomes apparent once one gets to the plan's premise and its viability even on the basis of extremely limited knowledge made available about it in the public domain. The premise for the grandiose design is a) The city of Delhi needs water for its growing population (*Agreed*) b) Since the river is as good as dead in the city and the flood plain in the city is prone to encroachment and slumisation so *the state must do something about it* in a planned manner rather in a piecemeal fashion that is going on at the moment ( *This is some admission after hundreds of crores of foreign aid has gone down the drain in the name of Yamuna Action Plan !!!!. Why and how are the slums created. It was the Asiad in 1982 which engendered the most slums in the city consisting of construction workers who decended on the town for the feverish construction activity for the games and never went back. The vicious cycle is waiting to happen again in the city in the wake of some Rs 20,000 crore - figure quoted to us by a senior government official - worth of investments planned for the Commonwealth Games now *) c) The river is already channelised in a sense that since most bridges on it are nothing but raised roads (*It has been a monumental mistake in the city which should be remedied through ameliorative actions which are feasible rather seen as a fait accompli and hence an excuse for further channelisation of the river *) d) Most cities in the world have developed river fronts (*All such cities are western cities with rivers which have little in parallel to our monsoon fed rivers and hence such wishful comparisons are baseless and dangerous. Even there in London and Paris they are learning at great cost the dangers from floods of such developments on the river banks *) f) Real estates opportunities of such a plan are immense (*THIS IS ACTUALLY THE REAL AGENDA OF THIS PLAN. Even if given where is the infrastructure required for such massive real estate development in the city which is already bursting at its seams *) *In short the plan suggests that since we have not spared any effort to kill the river then rather think of reviving it let us kill it in a planned manner than in any piecemeal fashion.* Indeed a smart way to fulfill this state's all too clear agenda of selling the river bed to the highest bidder. *Yes, the state must do something about the river. But it is to revive the river in its entirety and as a free flowing river with its flood plains intact for now and forever. It has the mandate and it has the means. If only it also had the right intent and the will !!!!! * No wonder every shylock in the town led by the Delhi Tourism (remember they were the guys behind the impugned month long shopping extravaganza called the Times Global Village in the river bed early this year just north of DND flyway which the HC of Delhi has already found to be illegal from day one) and Delhi government have jumped onto it. What surprises and amazes one is the fact that a presumably respectable organisation like TERI (trying to lead the Climate Change agenda all over the world) has no qualms in associating itself with such a hairbrained and preposterous an idea / concept whose viability is at great question if on nothing else but the uncertainities associated with the impacts of Climate Change (obviously the presenter was not even aware of such a term or threat). That they had no clue about what they were talking about becomes clear from one of their slides which bemoans lack of "marine" life in river Yamuna in Delhi and their vision being to bring it back. (surely with greater money they can certainly dream at least of getting the Bay of Bengal to get them sea water in Delhi so that they could get the marine life into a fresh water system). Jokes apart the proposal is preposterous to say the least. One shudders to think as to how easily such ignoramus fly-by-night operators whose only qualification is to weave thosands of crores worth projects and present them as glossy power -pointers to powers that be get easy access to and even nodding heads amongst the current breed of our politician / bureacracy and even experts like Dr Pachauri at TERI? The knowledgeable in the gathering made it amply clear that you can't create the kind of reservoirs planned in plains in a sustained manner since the first monsoon would silt them up badly. And if that is unviable then anything rest in the said plan is a foolish dream that dries up the next moment. Unfortunately "water" for Delhi has come to be seen to be such a milking cow that any smart alec can get the powers that be to loosen their purse strings for any such fancy idea. (One doesn;t know how many crores of tax payer's money did the Delhi Tourism pay Fairwood Consultants for this misadventure). How foolish can we become when we can't see the value of our existing underground reservoir underneath the existing flood plain (estimated to be worth some 10,000 crores per year over the 50 km stretch in Delhi - in just water terms - by Prof. Soni and his team) and are hell bent on destroying them for some fancy idea that deserves to be nipped in the bud at the first opportunity. We want to create surface reservoirs that may never be and destroy the underground ones that have existed for centuries and today feed 50% of Delhi with capacity for more. This city needs benign floods every monsoon to recharge the underground aquifers and enough flood plains to withstand the ravages of any future 10 yr, 25 yr, 50 yr or 100 yr frequency floods. We owe this to our future generations. No wonder every commentator in that house found problems with the concept called the "Yamuna Redevelopment Plan" which better would have been called the Yamuna - made to order - destruction plan. How far would the rapacious eyes of the state on the Yamuna flood plain go? manoj -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com -- Ratish Nanda Conservation Architect 1559, Sector B, Pocket 1 Vasant Kunj New Delhi 110070 INDIA _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 19 16:10:10 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:10:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Attack on Taslima Nasrin in Hyderabad II In-Reply-To: <341106.45985.qm@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <341106.45985.qm@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C81E0A.2030506@sarai.net> Dear Arnab (and all on the list) Apologies, first for the delay in writing this reply to Arnab's questions. I had promised in my last posting on this matter that I would respond to the points raised by Arnab, after I had responded to the other issues that have marked this correspondence. I would like to thank Arnab for the very substantive question he has raised about the relationship between what occurs in the process of editing, and censorship. Do good ideas, provocative but necessary thoughts, concepts, testimonies and stories get left out, or tamed, or distorted beyond recognition in the ordinary process of editing, especially as it occurs in the media (print and electronic)? Of course it does. Ask any journalist in any mainstream publication who covers sensitive issues and you will know how stories get mangled before they get to print. Watch a story unfold as it moves from its first 'live' report to how it gets spun in the prime time news show on television and you will also see how things change as the editorial desk begins to breathe heavy on a story. And as for literary content, of course, editors pre select and weed out content that they consider unsuitable under pressure from propreitors or other powerful interests. The converse also happens, some people are given more than ample publishing space - the making of literary and jouranalistic celebrity is sometimes a carefully choreographed affair, and we have to begin to ask why some writers (and stories, or topics or themes or styles) get a lot of space just as much as we have to ask why some get so little or none at all. Finally, there is a kind of informal pre-censorship, along with information managemnt, that operates discreetly within the media. It is well known that some people in the senior echelons of the media profession are informal members of what euphmestically gets called the 'intelligence community'. Some others, lower down the ladder, are the footsoldiers of the intelligence community. These gentlemen (and ladies) perform essential functions, planting stories, circulating fabrications, and occasioanally, influencing editorial decisions and policy. A phone call from certain unlisted numbers in New Delhi will often do the job of removing a story that may be considered too discomfiting. All of this occurs, and personally, I do not think we have an adequate handle on how this can be addressed. The most important thing that needs to be done right now, I think is a kind of everyday but rigorous critical reading of media and cultural material - looking for patterns and consistencies of content and form - such that instances of manipulation can be sought and speculated upon. We probably also need 'whistleblowers' from within the ranks of media professionals, but the current insecurity of work conditions within the journalistic profession may make this expectation unrealistic. For media to be free, media practitioners have to work in an environment that sustains a high ethical standard, and also protects the security of employment. None of these conditions obtain at present. The patterns of ownership of media also lead to unhealthy consolidations, which render the whole profession vulnerable. Many young and not so young journalists and writers are professionals who would like to work according to far more exacting ethical and formal standards than their employers and publishers would allow for. But does this amount to censorship? I don't think so. We have to be careful in distinguishing between a repressive culture (which actively discourages certain things from being said, or certains styles of expression from being used) from instances of actual censorship. Actual censorship, in my view, occurs when a text, image, idea, concept, sound, recording, film or any other artefact is prevented from reaching its intended audience in the way that its author saw fit, without the consent of the author. So, a film that is played with scenes cut out of it is a censored film. A film that is banned is a censored film. A film that disappears and does not reach its audience becasue some powerful people made sure that this would happen is a censored film. But if for instance, a filmmaker made some changes in his film at the suggestion of his producers or funders, and then went on to show his film, that would not, to my mind, be a censored film. No matter how much the filmmaker complained about the 'control' exercised on him in private, if, he or she has agreed to make changes (often as per conditions laid down in the contract) then his/her film is not a censored film. Every artist has the choice not to make or finish a work of art. If the conditions are unfavourable to the realization of his/her vision, an artist can always cease his/her labour. His/her silence, can at times be more eloquent than compromised speech. The kind of control that we see most of all in our cultural sphere and in our media milieu is not actually censorial. It works with, rather than against the author. It doesn't act on finished work, rather, it shapes and co authors work as it progresses. It is repressive, (and I think there could be more precise words than 'repression' for what I am attempting to describe, but since I dont have one at the moment, repression is what I will continue to use, perhaps someone else can suggest a better and less 'heavy' word). But it is the kind of repression that cannot work and be functional without the active cooperation of those it seeks to control most of all - the producers of literary, artistic and media content. More important than all of this is the control mechanism that sits inside peoples heads, something we could call 'self-censorship' - and self-censorship, motivated by nationalism, or concerns for national security, or an over zealous attitude to 'moral' questions, or plain and simple prejudice, or calculations about the advancement of ones' professional career has as much a role to play than anything else. In fact, I think that this kind of auto-censorship is far more active inhibitior in our milieu than any overt external censorship. It makes the task of the censors much easier. We are all our own little censors. The only way out of this situation is for the decentering of culture. For the production and proliferation of as many channels of meaning making and information as are possible. For people to express themselves in more than one way, in more than one medium, in more than one language, in more than one form. This way, you might escape the repression you face in one area in the work that you do in another. The repressed journalist might become the emancipated writer of literary non fiction. The repressed poet might become the free thinking philosopher, and the repressed philosopher might become the liberated poet, and so on. It might also need new forms of anonymous and collaborative authorship, which allow people to write and create in ways that they may feel inhibited by under their own names and identities. It also probably needs many platforms of publication, on the web, but also in print. The rise of desktop, do-it-yourself and samizdat publishing forms, and cheaper forms of recording and disseminating digital video and sound through cds, dvds and on the web means that things can loosen up a lot more. If someone faces a persistent problem of not having their work published or kept away from an intended public, then they can also undertake initiatives to self-publish their work,(including blogs and zines) and release their work under a commons system so that it can be reproduced and disseminated by others to even wider audiences and readerships. I totally understand your sympathy for the marginal poet and the writer who shuns and is shunned by the mainstream - but that writer can also help create the conditions that lead to the formation of an alternative public that effectively reduces the mainstream to a dull and pedantic space where nothing really interesting happens. Artistic innovation does not consist solely in the experimentation with new forms, it consists equally in new forms of publicness. It is my belief that a general increase and diversity in forms of public rendition of literary, journalistic and artistic work can lead to an atmosphere that eventually makes even the mainstream sit up and take notice, so that what might be called the 'commanding heights' of the media too have to buckle and become less repressive. But all of this requires a lot of work. Now let me come to an even more substantive question. Is editing itself censorship? Let me spell out the reasons why I dont think it has to be. An edited book, or magazine, or publication, or programme, or a curated exhibition, is also a work - just as each essay, story, poem, film, art work that contributes to an edited or curated entity is also a work. As in any work, different kinds of authorial entities entail different degrees of control. An open ended and participatory work or process, (such as this list) can be open to any contributors by those who are either invited to participate or by those who self-select themselves for participation. An unmoderated list is a continuing work of which we are all authors. The only condition of authorship here is subscription. However, nothing prevents a list or a blog from declaring itself to be moderated. And I see nothing wrong (or censorious) in that. Often, the authorial intention is not to invite and be hospitable to any contribution, but to focus on, or emphasize some kinds of content. This is perfectly understandable, if the authors feel that this is the best, or only way for them to communicate. It does not prevent others from communication, it just creates an exclusive zone for certain kinds of communication. After all, every moderated blog, presumes the existence of other moderated blogs - which can even link to it, in criticism, antagonism and opposition. This is why, it is false and erroneous to say that if someone moderates or culls messages from a moderated blog, one is being censorious. One is preserving the integrity of one's intended practice of communication, nothing that the moderator of a moderated blog does can prevent someone (say someone who is moderated away) from starting their own blog. Work, begets work, even in criticism. I see no contradiction at all in writing in an unmoderated mailing list, participating in a moderated blog or e-forum, and writing for several rigorously edited journals, and being part of the editorial collective of a rigourously edited publications. Each of these different modes of making things public has their own norms, protocols and ettiquette which stem from the different purposes that they seek to address. As someone who works in an editorial capacity (as part of the editorial collective of the Sarai Readers) I am well aware of the fact that we have to intervene quite heavily on certain occasions, working closely with writers, suggesting changes in language and the order of information, and of course, making decisions about what to keep and what to drop in terms of what makes it finally to print. In fact selections of contributions to the reader happen at two stages, first when we receive abstracts in response to the general call for the Reader, and secondly, when we are receive final articles. If the author of a promising abstract delivers a less than promising article, sometimes, with a heavy heart, we have to let the article go. A book is a finite thing, it cannot have an endless number of pages, and so, for reasons of editorial consistency, brevity, taste and our own ideological predelictions, we cull, and on occasion, we cull with severity. But we do not hide the fact that we cull. The call for contributions says quite categorically that the decision as to what to include rests with the editors. If the editors did not cut something out, they would not be editors, but would be say, additive compilers. Anyone who sends in contributions to such a publication does so with the full understanding that their contribution stands to be rejected just as much as it stands to be accepted. It is possible, that someone whose writing we may have rejected, will be motivated enough to start a journal or a book series of their own, with the express purpose of including and publishing the kind of material that would have been excluded from the Sarai Reader Series, and maybe even of rejecting the kind of stuff that we publish. If that were to be the case, it would be wonderful. After all, the only way that culture can be vigorous is if there is enough criticism of everything. Including everything that each one of us is fond of and stands for. Thank you for your patience, and Arnab, I hope you now have a fair idea of where I stand on these matters. And sometimes, we may feel compelled to take a stand about someone who is being persecuted, a book that is being banned, or a film that is prevented from being screened, regardless of personal taste, or ideological convictions. I am not a fan of M.F.Husain's work as an artist, but I do feel that it is tragic that there are threats to his work. I have amivalent feelings about Taslima Nasrin's work, but I would stand by it's right to be published, and for her to be heard, even if I found it personally distasteful, and her a difficult person to deal with. I stand by Sanjak Kak and his film, not because he is a friend and a comrade, or because I agree with much of what is said in his film (all of which are true), but because I believe that every film has a right to its public, and that every public has a right to every film. with warm regards Shuddha ARNAB CHATTERJEE wrote: > Dear Shuddhabrata, > > I�m not ashamed to say that I am an avid reader of > your- i.e., Shuddhabrata Sengupta�s writings as the > works of Jeebesh Bagchi ( recently in the Journal of > the Moving Image) or that of Lawrence Liang ( the > little that I�ve read )and some works and words of > Inder Salim and Vedabati Jogi simply fascinate me. And > love at times compells to engage--more and more-- like > this one. > > I have a public question for > you--Shuddha. The remarkably clear instances of > persecution or censorship no doubt merit discussion > and an activist anthropology of sorts may be strongly > required to comment on them but consider for instance > the paradigm called �editing� compulsory in newspaper > circles and other institutionalised relatas. Besides > correcting linguistic and open stylistic errors ( > which perhaps everybody will accept) there is first > the step of choosing articles and secondly if chosen > �the editing of content. Both events make edifying and > horrifying stories�but they are rarely available. > Could you comment on this archival- lack ? And its > logistics? Remember Taslima was twice awarded the > Ananda puraskar; does it signify anything? People > don�t discuss Malay Roy choudhury. And even Malay is a > bad example; Allen Gisnberg at a function celebrating > 25 years of Howl was asked his favourite author: he > named a punk novelist and said, � but he doesn�t get > published.� > > I don�t want to elaborate on this here > but cryptically summarise by asking that could editing > be seen as also a technology of censorship and > persecution passed under the table? Isn�t tabloid > criticism based on the sacrifice of the best > arguments? How could it be made accountable? Or take > the ready example and answer why SARAI needs to be an > open public forum rather than a closed one. Here is a > hint: if others are closed ones, then what kind of > freedom do they express? (Let the readers not mistake > this fact and reiterate the catechism that it is > technically not possible to accommodate all and > everything etc.) --Because, then the agency where > the �Freedom of expression� is articulated, would > itself be in doubt. That mediation itself is mediated > is poisonous knowledge. > Now this apparently is a simple, known > statement, but �I�ll tell you after a while�how it is > not. > Simply put, I want Shuddha and all to comment, > discuss and open the old force field of persecution > and the art of writing again to debate it,- but with > a difference: we move away from visible forms of > coercion and explore apparently non-coercive, > non-violent ( nearly necessary) forms of mediation and > translation. (are they just impossible to handle?). > A caution here: In this I don�t want to down play > the Taslima event and Shuddha�s comments on it but I > find myself attracted to Malay Roy Choudhury or > Subimal Mishra rather than Taslima. The latter pass > away as not being persecuted at all; why? how? > This last example is a bit gross and bypasses the > finer arguments I was hinting at but nevertheless it > puts things in a straight light and offers a > beginner�s example. But no cause for remorse : there > are hundred narratives �some of them awesome�to be > recounted here. But at first I expect Shuddha to clear > the cloud here. > > Thanks > Yrs in discourse and defeat > arnab > > > --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > >>Dear All (apologies for cross posting on Kafila.org >>and the Sarai Reader >>List) >> >>The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again shown >>how fragile the >>freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks >>whenever a >>sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments >>challenged'. Are all >>these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing >>screenings and readings >>suffering from some early childhood trauma that >>makes it difficult for >>them to countenance growing up and acquiring the >>ability to listen to >>contrary point of view? How long are we to be held >>hostage to their >>infantile suffering? >> >>What is worse is the fact that the people who >>attacked her, and have >>made public threats to kill her - activists and >>elected representatives >>belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated >>Razakars, were >>arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message >>that the state sends >>out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be taken >>to a police station >>to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be >>splashed in the media, >>go home and make some more threats" >> >>see - >> > > http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > >>In fact, according to a report in the Indian Express >>today, it is Ms. >>Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 - >>the same section of >>the penal code that was earlier used to detain the >>unfortunate art >>student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and >>Christian sentiments'. So >>as far as the Police in the state of Andhra Pradesh >>is concerned, person >>who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a >>prominent politician is >>innocent, and the writer herself, who has never >>threatened to kill >>anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is >>guilty of inciting >>hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can be >>no greater travesty >>of justice than this incident, and it once again >>demonstrates how >>willing state power in India is to dance in tandem >>with bigots. It >>happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in Congress >>ruled Andhra >>Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled >>West Bengal. >> >>Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and >>cussedness is not the >>monopoly of the self appointed representatives of >>any one community or >>political tendency. If the self appointed >>representatives of the >>Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour >>venom on Sanjay Kak on >>this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their >>ardour by the >>viciousness of those who have appointed themselves >>the guardians of >>Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu and >>Christian dignity in >>Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short >>memories) let us remember >>that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified and >>hounded and her >>publication banned in an Indian state, it just >>happenned to be in West >>Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and >>this happenned because >>the secular progressive left front regime, led by >>the Contractors Party >>of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the >>sanitized cultural >>landscape that they so vigorously uphold and >>maintain in that state. >> >>The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' found >>it necessary to >>publish the official 'party line' on the ban in its >>issue dated November >>7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for >>this lengthy quotation) >> >>"THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to ban >>Bangladeshi author >>Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita >>(‘Split in Two’) because it >>was feared that the book would incite communal >>violence. At no point of >>time has the book been proscribed on political or >>literary grounds. >> >>In a government notification issued on November 28, >>the state LF >>government has formally invoked the ban under >>section 95 of the code of >>Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the Indian >>Penal Code (where it >>is considered a criminal and punishable act to >>create enmity, rivalry, >>and hatred amongst religious communities. >> >>State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said >>that there was >>apprehension expressed widely that the book would >>spark off communal >>tension, and that very many experts in the field >>supported this view. >>The LF government has banned the book for the sake >>of the upkeep of >>democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have >>expressed similar >>feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time >>the Left Front has been >>office in Bengal not a single book or publication >>has been proscribed on >>political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was a >>different matter >>altogether if a publication or a book incited >>terrorism and communalism. >> >>Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee >>whose department >>issued the notification banning the book, said that >>he had himself read >>the book “several times over.” that he has >>“persuaded at least 25 noted >>specialists to go through the book critically” and >>that they have >>recommended the book to be not fit for circulation >>among the reading >>public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the book >>contain very >>derogatory and provocative references that go >>against the grain of the >>tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. >> >> Several noted authors including the poet Sunil >>Gangopadhyay, the >>novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and >>Syed Mustafa Siraj, the >>Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer Suman >>Chatterjee, as well >>as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, >>Subrata Mukherjee, >>among others, have come openly out against the book >>and have supported >>the decision by the state LF government to get the >>book banned. >> >>Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called >>Taslima Nasreen a >>blot on the world of women, has described the book >>as having no >>difference with a piece of pornography and has said >>that nobody ought to >>assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a religious >>community. >> >>The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s >>multi-volume autobiography has >>been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and >>Bengal with obscenity >>and has come under fire for its maligning and >>falsified personal >>references to the lives of several noted scholars of >>Bengal and >>Bangladesh as well. >> >>However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while >>speaking to the media >>in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the fact >>that portions of the >>book would cause religious disharmony to break out, >>with the religious >>fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the flame >>of communal fire. >> >>True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has >>supported Taslima >>Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has >>opposed the >>proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has >>chosen to hold her >>silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many >>other matters as well." >> >>It appears that if there is one thing that religious >>fundamentalists, >>communal, nationalist, secular and leftist >>politicians agree on is the >>necessity to curb the freedom of expression in Inda. >> >>There is only one possible ethical response to this >>pathetic display of >>arrogance by the self appointed representatives of >>Hindu, Muslim, >>Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to >>ensure the widest >>possible circulation of these materials in the >>public domain. It is to >>organize as many screenings as possible of a film >>like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' >>(or any other film that is attacked in a similar >>fashion) and to hold >>public readings and distributions of the books of >>someone like Taslima >>Nasreen. >> >>In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay >>by Taslima Nasreen >>that had been first published in English in Sarai >>Reader 04: Turbuluence >> >> > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > >>She wrote - >> >>"Just like in West Bengal today, my books have been >>banned earlier in >>Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite riots. >>The communal >>tension raging through South Asia is not caused by >>my books but by other >>reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, >>the killing of Muslims >>in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, the >>attacks against >>Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in Pakistan >>have all occurred >>without any contribution from me. Even if I am an >>insignificant writer, >>I write for humanity, I write with all my heart that >>every human being >>is equal, and there must be no discrimination on the >>basis of gender, >>colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to live. >>Riots don’t break >>out because of what I write. But I am the one who is >>punished for what I >>write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has >>to suffer exile. I am >>the one who is homeless everywhere." >> >> >>If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and >>artists are not >>'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that >>they receive the >>hospitality that enables the conditions that allow >>their work, thought >>and expression to continue to have a public life. >>This means making sure >>that their work lives and continues to breathe in >>society, by any means >>necessary. >> >>For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, >>some of Taslima >>Nasrin's work is available in the form of >>downloadable pdfs from >>www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev >>Bhattacharya decided, >>after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals >>to ban her book, I >>decided to download the said book, make twenty six >>photocopies of the >>entire book bind them and distribute them free. >> >>That is one method to deal with censorship (formal >>or informal) I am >>sure that there are other, more creative methods out >>there as well. I >>would welcome practical suggestions from those in >>the community of the >>people who are reading this post >>about how these attacks on the freedom of expression >>may be confronted >>and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time >>for peaceful film >>watching and reading. >> >>best >> >>Shuddha >> >> >>_________________________________________ >>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >>the city. >>Critiques & Collaborations >>To subscribe: send an email to >>reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the >>subject header. >>To unsubscribe: >>https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>List archive: > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 19 16:40:17 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:10:17 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Lisson Gallery - The Otolith Group Message-ID: <46C82519.7050908@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear All, You are invited to attend the premier screening of Otolith II at the Lisson Gallery in London on Friday the 21st of September at 7.30pm. See flyer for more details and below. Otolith I, 2003, represents a poetic meditation on diverse histories of collective struggle. Shots of recent anti-war protests in London are intercut with historical footage that glimpses the optimistic socialism of India?s Non-Aligned Movement. Narrated by an imagined future descendant of Sagar's during a coming space age when the human species will have adapted to non-gravitational living, the film looks back on the catastrophe that is our present, which nonetheless bears the traces of hopeful potential. By constructing defamiliarizing montages of sound and image, The Otolith Group--taking their name from the small particle of the middle ear which helps maintain orientation and balance--creatively recalibrates our relation to reality. Its sequel, Otolith II, 2007, focuses on modernity?s aftermath in India, exploring the country's legacy of twentieth-century utopian projects. The film-essay juxtaposes scenes of contemporary Chandigarh, Corbusier's ideal city and erstwhile symbol of Nehru's secular rationalism, with Bombay's mega-slum; yet unexpectedly it avoids telling the familiar tale of progressive failure: current-day India prefigures both a coming planetary impoverishment as well as a model of creative survival within informal architectures and adaptive urban living. Best Wishes ________________________ Anjalika Sagar The Otolith Group 42 Osbaldeston Road Stoke Newington London N16 7DR T : 0044 (0) 207 502 0137 F : 0044 (0) 207 502 1125 M : 0044 (0)7894 744 317 .......................................................... Current Exhibitions - Performances - Symposiums DESTROY ATHENS THE ATHENS BIENNIAL The Otolith Group with The Owl's Legacy Opening Sept 9th 2007 www.athensbiennial.org IMAGINE ACTION Special Screening Otolith II - Sept 21th Curated by Emily Pethick The Lisson Gallery London, UK Ricardo Basbaum, Luca Frei, Melanie Gilligan, Dan Graham, Henriette Heise, Judith Hopf, Gareth Jones, Runo Lagomarsino, The Otolith Group, Falke Pisano, Josephine Pryde, Florian Pumhosl, Pia Ronicke,Deborah Schamoni, Althea Thauberger, Haegue Yang. Opening July 4th 2007 www.lissongallery.com DOCUMENTA 12 DOCUMENTA MAGAZINES The Otolith Group Magazine MULTITUDES GUERRILLA NEWS Event 2nd August @ 1pm - Documenta Halle Harun Farocki in Conversation with The Otolith Group YOU HAVE NOT BEEN HONEST Curated by Polly Staple Museo d'Arte Contemporanea Donnaregina (Madre) Naples, Italy With The Otolith Group, Ryan Gander, Pablo Bronstein, Simon Martin, Phil Collins and more.. May 4th - October 1st 2007 http://www.britishcouncil.org/es/arts-art-photography-video.htm PREMIERE OF OTOLITH II Produced by ARGOS Centre of Art and Media, Kunstfestival des Arts, Brussels and If I Cant Dance IICD, Amsterdam May 14th 2007 FOR FULL DETAILS VISIT THE SITE BELOW http://www.argosarts.org/articles.do?id=333 OTOLITH II CASCO PROJECTS May 17th Presented by Haus N/D Werf Utrecht and IICD (If I Can't Dance... ) http://www.cascoprojects.org From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 19 16:52:31 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:22:31 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] THOUGHTS ON FILMS Message-ID: <46C827F7.7040702@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear All, We're curating a programe on classic protest films from the 20th Century. Any thoughts about great short protest films that should definitely go in? We have an international remit and would appreciate any advice on political /protest films especially made by women. The films have to be short 30 minutes or less. We are putting a long list together right now. We have a list of about 40 films so far. ICO ESSENTIALS: AN INTRODUCTION TO ARTISTS’ FILM AND VIDEO ESSENTIALS is a unique series of programmes presenting iconic works from the history of artists’ film and video. The series is designed as an exciting introduction for cinemas to the world of artists’ moving image its major themes. The intention behind Essentials is to present an accessible, well contextualised series that can be shown in a wide range of screening venues and introduce key artists, works, themes, movements and ideas to new audiences. Essentials will be a series of 6 national touring programmes. This will open at the Tate Modern next year. OUR THEME IN BRIEF IS Politics, agit-prop, film essay, social intervention, agitation, documentation and exposing the unrepresented. With Thanks in Advance ________________________ Anjalika Sagar The Otolith Group 42 Osbaldeston Road Stoke Newington London N16 7DR T : 0044 (0) 207 502 0137 F : 0044 (0) 207 502 1125 M : 0044 (0)7894 744 317 .......................................................... Current Exhibitions - Performances - Symposiums DESTROY ATHENS THE ATHENS BIENNIAL The Otolith Group with The Owl's Legacy Opening Sept 9th 2007 www.athensbiennial.org IMAGINE ACTION Special Screening Otolith II - Sept 21th Curated by Emily Pethick The Lisson Gallery London, UK Ricardo Basbaum, Luca Frei, Melanie Gilligan, Dan Graham, Henriette Heise, Judith Hopf, Gareth Jones, Runo Lagomarsino, The Otolith Group, Falke Pisano, Josephine Pryde, Florian Pumhosl, Pia Ronicke,Deborah Schamoni, Althea Thauberger, Haegue Yang. Opening July 4th 2007 www.lissongallery.com DOCUMENTA 12 DOCUMENTA MAGAZINES The Otolith Group Magazine MULTITUDES GUERRILLA NEWS Event 2nd August @ 1pm - Documenta Halle Harun Farocki in Conversation with The Otolith Group YOU HAVE NOT BEEN HONEST Curated by Polly Staple Museo d'Arte Contemporanea Donnaregina (Madre) Naples, Italy With The Otolith Group, Ryan Gander, Pablo Bronstein, Simon Martin, Phil Collins and more.. May 4th - October 1st 2007 http://www.britishcouncil.org/es/arts-art-photography-video.htm PREMIERE OF OTOLITH II Produced by ARGOS Centre of Art and Media, Kunstfestival des Arts, Brussels and If I Cant Dance IICD, Amsterdam May 14th 2007 FOR FULL DETAILS VISIT THE SITE BELOW http://www.argosarts.org/articles.do?id=333 OTOLITH II CASCO PROJECTS May 17th Presented by Haus N/D Werf Utrecht and IICD (If I Can't Dance... ) http://www.cascoprojects.org From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 19 17:06:22 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:36:22 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] taslima... and your art In-Reply-To: <47e122a70708171146r4793b86dpbf6cbc353bdffb81@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70708171146r4793b86dpbf6cbc353bdffb81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C82B36.7020809@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear Inder, Thanks for your mail. Yes debates should be intense and open to all - sometimes the debates on the reader list feel a little over dominated by men and in particular men of a certain type of education - hence debates wind up as rhetorical and language is used to grandstand rather than share. Anyway I have just posted some information on our recent film works onto the list. We do not have a website yet as we are over worked underpaid and have little admin support, BUT we will we will get one soon and then I will send you the link.. Thanks for kind words bestests Anjalika Sagar The Otolith Group 42 Osbaldeston Road Stoke Newington London N16 7DR T : 0044 (0) 207 502 0137 F : 0044 (0) 207 502 1125 M : 0044 (0)7894 744 317 .......................................................... Current Exhibitions - Performances - Symposiums DESTROY ATHENS THE ATHENS BIENNIAL The Otolith Group with The Owl's Legacy Opening Sept 9th 2007 www.athensbiennial.org IMAGINE ACTION Special Screening Otolith II - Sept 21th Curated by Emily Pethick The Lisson Gallery London, UK Ricardo Basbaum, Luca Frei, Melanie Gilligan, Dan Graham, Henriette Heise, Judith Hopf, Gareth Jones, Runo Lagomarsino, The Otolith Group, Falke Pisano, Josephine Pryde, Florian Pumhosl, Pia Ronicke,Deborah Schamoni, Althea Thauberger, Haegue Yang. Opening July 4th 2007 www.lissongallery.com DOCUMENTA 12 DOCUMENTA MAGAZINES The Otolith Group Magazine MULTITUDES GUERRILLA NEWS Event 2nd August @ 1pm - Documenta Halle Harun Farocki in Conversation with The Otolith Group YOU HAVE NOT BEEN HONEST Curated by Polly Staple Museo d'Arte Contemporanea Donnaregina (Madre) Naples, Italy With The Otolith Group, Ryan Gander, Pablo Bronstein, Simon Martin, Phil Collins and more.. May 4th - October 1st 2007 http://www.britishcouncil.org/es/arts-art-photography-video.htm PREMIERE OF OTOLITH II Produced by ARGOS Centre of Art and Media, Kunstfestival des Arts, Brussels and If I Cant Dance IICD, Amsterdam May 14th 2007 FOR FULL DETAILS VISIT THE SITE BELOW http://www.argosarts.org/articles.do?id=333 OTOLITH II CASCO PROJECTS May 17th Presented by Haus N/D Werf Utrecht and IICD (If I Can't Dance... ) http://www.cascoprojects.org inder salim wrote: > hi Anj > going through all between u shudha and mahmood on Sarai List...i must > say that i am delighted to read all this... i personally like the > debates, more so when they are intense.... this one on Taslima in > Hyderabad tends to become one... i wish that it is pushed more and > more.... > > at the moment i am eager to know what kind of art you are doing... > please sent me some link of yours which can provide some....or if you > have some web or blog.... > > i have a little blog , please visit < http://indersalim.livejournal.com> > > will catch up with you soon. > with love > > inder salim > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com From anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Aug 19 17:07:07 2007 From: anjalisaga at blueyonder.co.uk (Anjalika Sagar) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:37:07 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] ooops -Re: taslima... and your art In-Reply-To: <47e122a70708171146r4793b86dpbf6cbc353bdffb81@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70708171146r4793b86dpbf6cbc353bdffb81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C82B63.6000806@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear Inder, ooops .... this was not meant to go onto the reader - apologies From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 19:04:56 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., offici In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708121328j56191d29rd9a8623e02f21d38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <211798.67938.qm@web57215.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir 1. You may presume to speak for the Iqbal who is long dead and gone but during his lifetime Iqbal often made reference to his Kashmiri Pandit ancestry and did not dismiss it. You need to study your Iqbal better. The issue was with you calling Iqbal a Kashmiri Pandit. Iqbal was not. You need to correct yourself. 2. About the switch in Kashmir to a Muslim majority area you write: "I don't know if the region becoming Muslim majority was necessarily a good or a bad thing over the 1000 year history as you suggest. With due consideration of KP sensitivities, I'll leave this judgment to someone else." That judgment is perhaps easily addressed by comparing the two respective periods in terms of whether the lives of the people became better, did the new ideology ennoble them, was there an evolving of the philosophical, intellectual, literary and social heritage in a productive manner. If you know your history of pre and post 'advent of Islam' into Kashmir the answer would be NO. The advent of Islam practically brought to a full-stop the contributions from Kashmir to the rest of the world. That should tell you something. Societies are not judged at all on declarations like "We have our Allah, Quran, Mohammed" or "We have our Paramatma, Gita, Krishna, Ram" or "We have our God, Bible, Jesus, Mary". 3. Yasir, what is the controversy about Bankim's Vande Mataram? I know of none other than the one of some Muslims not wanting to sing it. That is not a controversy about Vande Mataram but about some people demonstrating that their allegiance to India (the Mother) is superceded by allegiance to some notional entity. These Muslims will on one hand cry themselves hoarse that "secularism' is being threatened and on the other hand seek to reinforce an Islamist agenda for the Muslims of India. They are a despicable lot and just like the Hindutva brigade (of India should be a Hindu country; Pakistan should be absorbed back into India) are a threat to security and peace in India. Both should be firmly neutralised. About Tagore's Jana Gana Mana there is hardly any controversy. Through Tagore's correspondence it has been established that he was instructed/commissioned and wrote it in welcome for George V referred to as the "Adhinayak" and "Bhagya Vidhata". Tagore's explanations/excuses about his motivations are hardly important. You are right Yasir, "Saaray Jahaan Se Achhaa" is one of India's national songs. Just as the purpose of Jana Gana Mana does not pertain to nationalist India, similarly the philosophy of "Saaray Jahaan" is far removed from addressing "all" people of India. Yet India has embraced both and that is a tribute to the people of India. 4. Yasir, would you care to explain, who is the "hamaara" if not the "Muslim collective- the Ummah"? What "kaaravaan" descended on the banks of Ganga? You do need to study "Iqbaaliyaat" some more if Frances Pritchett's site is all you can call upon. Without doubt Iqbal is one of the most significant personalities from our region. You trivialise Iqbal with some of your comments. 5. Yasir, you might be from the education sector and may "have visited SDPI many times" but you obviously have not gone through the research I had referred to. If you had, you would not so casually dismiss it's import. You however mention of a lot of "some this" and "some that". Influences that are; some "Zia's Legacy"; some "religousity/sect"; some "parents"; some "region-social setup"; some "dose of islamic ideology"; some "revisionist". In between you have also plugged in some "etc". I wonder how many and of what kind. The sum of all those "somes" add up to Pakistan being a country that rears it's children on "hate", feeds it's people with "hate agendas" and feeds off "hate". 6. This "thread" started with the "Jihad" call in Pakistan's National Assembly. It was not dismissed or questioned or contradicted in the PNA. It was not an aberration. On 14th August we saw (in a programme co-hosted by GEO and NDTV) Gen Aslam Beg declare that after the Jihadis had vanquished USA in Afghanistan and Iraq, they would concentrate their attention on Kashmir. That is the reality of Pakistani 'thought'/'philosophy". The people of Kashmir can look forward to the Jihadis brutally killing, butchering, hanging innocents; women being raped and abducted into forced "nikkah". Kashmendra Kaul yasir ~ wrote: Dear Kshmendra thanks for writing. comments below. On 8/11/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Allow me a few observations. > > 1. Iqbal was not a Kashmiri Pandit. His ancestors were Kashmiri Pandits. > Iqbal was a Muslim. Yes I think Iqbal would be comfortable with this distance (ancestors). > > 2. Your mentioning the Kashmiri Pandit connection only serves as a reminder > that a once Kashmiri Pandit majority region in just a few hundred years > became a Muslim majority area and along with it the reminder brings the > history of how the switchover took place. This is not the time and place to > go into it. It is a painful reminder. Calling Iqbal a Kashmiri Pandit is an > abuse of Kashmiri Pandit sensitivities about a unique ethnicity which is on > the verge of extinction. I dont know if the region becoming muslim majority was necessarily a good or a bad thing over the 1000 year history as you suggest. With due consideration of KP sensitivities, i'll leave this judgment to someone else. > > 3. "Saaray Jahaan say achhaa...." is one of the National Songs of India. It > is amusing that it recognised as being so with Indians not realising the > full import of this "Taraana e Hind". the controversies over Bankim Chattopadhyay's vande mataram, Tagore's jana gana mana are just as amusing. but such amalgamations and blends are the stuff of history and everyday life. how can you escape. > > "Taraana e Hind" celebrates and declares the Claim of Muslims on > "Hind". It that respect it is not very much different from Iqbal's "Taraana > e Milli". It does not address all the people of "Hind". It is meant only for > "Muslims". it is very different and very similar http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/index.html? http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/juxtaposition.html http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00urdu/taranahs/comparison.html > > 4. Before ill-informed hackles become antennae tuning into presumed > suspicious and prejudiced intent, let me explain. didnt know you had an interest in astrology > > After celebrating the glory of "Hindustaan" in the first few couplets, > Iqbal reveals his mind in: > > ai aab-e-ruud-e-gangaa vo din hai yaad tujh ko > utaraa tere kinaare jab kaaravaa.N hamaaraa > > Iqbal asks River Ganga to recollect the time when "hamaara kaarvaan" > descended on it's banks. The "haamaara' is the Muslim collective, the > "Ummah" in the form of advent of Islam. The indigenous faith people were > always resident on the banks of Ganga. for the litarary and folk minded however to reach is the shore is a blessed thing - mujhe paar laga, beda paar kar. there is no reference to an ummah here and besides thats too puritanical - mulla-ish. so reaching the ganges is like reaching the shores of heaven, or may be its even betterr? just the previous verse says this ! why ignore this one? Godee mein khailtee hein uss kee hazaaron naddiyaan Gulshan hai jin ke dam se rask-e-jinaa~ hamaara in [her] lap play all her thousands of rivers thanks to which our garden is the envy of Paradise(s) [jannat-paradise, jinaan-plural, nasalised jinaa~ - poetic] > Similarly, lack of knowledge about Islamic terminology has led to a > spin quite different from the inherent meaning in: > > mazhab nahii.n sikhaataa aapas me.n bair rakhanaa > hindii hai.n ham vatan hai hindustaa.N hamaaraa > > "Mazhab" does not refer to "Religions" of Hindustaan being asked to not > harbour enmity against each other. "Mazhab" (variant of Maddhab in Arabic) > is a specific term used in Islam for "sects". The religion of Islam by > itself is called "Deen". "Sunni" and "Shia" would be "Mazhabs". The couplet > addresses itself to Muslims belonging to various sects in Islam i think your reading is without doubt narrow - based on the internal contextual meaning of mazhab-i-islam and mazahibs within. but in the multireligious context ie everyday life, there is hindu mat or hindu mazhab, buddh mat or buddh mazhab or eesai or yahudi mazhab. so mazahib is all religions of hind in this context. something else which supports this is that we are not dealing in arabic here. we are talking about an Urdu ghazal or two Urdu ghazals in the Indian context - well that goes without saying - how much more Indian can u get ! > Yasir, your well intentioned messages addressed to Rashneek also merit > comment but I will not inflict too much on you. wait i have to scratch my elbow > > In my opinion your grossly underestimate both the strength of the J-Lobby in > Pakistan and the pervasiveness of the J-Sentiment amongst the masses of > Pakistan. The "askari" (armed) J-Sentiment is directed against both people > of other "Deen" (Religions) and followers of differing "maddhabs" (sects > within Islam) that is my estimation, thank you. 'deen' is closer to 'faith' or 'doctrine' mazhab is as close to religion or sect as you can get - meaning the whole of practices beliefs etc of that group. unless you are going to a seminary, you'd stick with ordinary street/household/literary usage. > > I personally monitor only 3 Pakistani TV Channels and Internet editions of > 3 Pakistani English Newspapers. The picture that emerges is quite quite > different from your all too optimistic scenarios. It is likely to be more > horrifying with greater exposure to Pakistani Media, especially the > "indigenous languages" newspapers. yes I would find it horrifying if it were so, but i dont from here on the ground, plus all the media. in fact the current trend is to check appurtenances of zia's legacy, some of course credit this to the other side. > > Yasir, it is simplistically believed that the "hate others" attitude in > Pakistan is nurtured and propagated only by the "Madrassas". The "hate" > indoctrination of young Pakistani minds is an automatic product of the > syllabi in Govt. Schools. In is in those schools that the overwhelmingly > overwhelming majority of Pakistani children school. i think an overstatement. it is not that automatic. other factors are religousity/sect of parents, region-social setup, etc. The textbooks are nationalistic (with a dose of islamic ideology but not extremism) and revisionist. Adjectives from the american idiom (hate, other) or soviet (indoctrination ) need not apply. > > If this interests you, please do get in touch with "Sustainable Development > Policy Institute - Islamabad" ( http://www.sdpi.org/ ) The Institute's A M > Nayyar and Ahmed Salim have done some good work in researching Pakistani > textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civic Studies. I have worked in the education sector and have visited sdpi many times. thanks. best y --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 21:59:08 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:29:08 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Repenting and Re-painting (Shohini Ghosh) Message-ID: Shohini Ghosh had the following follow-up thoughts on Bangla film thread. As she can't post on sarai, she asked me to send on her behalf (can she be added to the list? i think that wld allow her to post and reply directly). If replying, pls cc her, so she can see replies as well.... from Shohini Ghosh to Naeem Mohaiemen date Aug 19, 2007 8:27 PM subject Repenting and Re-painting Dear Naeem: My original note was meant for Yousuf and hence the careless classification of films and the misspelling of Nina Kabir's name. You are right about Teardrops of Karnaphuli as not being about the crisis of communalism but about displacement, ethnicity, etc. For me, it raises important issues around nationhood and belonging the discourse of which in the case of CHT is also inflected by religious among other identities. However, I am more curious about something you say at the very end regarding your own film Muslims and Heretics. You write: "I pulled this version of the film from circulation after experiencing extreme discomfort over how the film was being hijacked by precisely these kinds of "crisis of communalism" equations (even though there are bootlegs). The newer version "Muslims or Heretics: My Camera Can Lie." This raises many interesting issues for me. First, do you really think that a filmmaker can or ought to control spectatorial responses to his/her film? For instance, I have often referred to Muslims and Heretics (I own a bootleg copy) as addressing a certain crises of secularism at the present moment. You may or may not agree. But for me, the authorial intention behind any text is not the sole guiding principle for reading and interpreting this work. So while rataining my right to read as I wish to, I am curious to learn what precisely is the nature of discomfort that you feel and how you are seeking to address it in the new version. Second and more important, does the filmmaker /author have the right to withdraw his or her work once it has become part of the public domain? Of course, it is vitally important that practitioners and artists reflect, rework and even re-write their texts. But should it be to replace and supplant ? Or should the attempt be to re-pain inthe spirit of Pentimento? As Lillian Hellman writes in her introduction to Pentimento, scratching the surface of the "re-paint" would reveal the earlier painting thereby testifying that the artist had indeed "repented." I would like to have your thoughts on this and others are of course, welcome to join in. Since I cannot post on the Sarai list, I am requesting you to please post this for me. Warmly Shohini From miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 23:29:41 2007 From: miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com (mihir pandya) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] chak de india -film review Message-ID: <2113.61180.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> CHAK DE INDIA -"A simple film with a good heart." This is a strange comparison. Last Friday I saw amitabh talking about one of his favorite movie AMAR, AKBAR, ANTHONY on CNN-IBN. He said that when manmohan desai was making this movie no one believes that so illogical plot works. So much stereotypes and so much cliches are there that we all laugh on that. But there was something in it that connected direct to the audience. All stereotypes, cliches were vanished and plot worked. So.. What was that? I called it heart on the right place! Last week when I was watching CHAK DE INDIA I felt the same. With such stupid scenes like the one when kabir khan leaving his home and a boy said to his father, "papa manu bhi gaddar dekhna hai." Bad. Or all the board meetings where the board head is saying, "ye chakla-belan chalane wali bhartiya nariya hain." Hey man don't create cliches like that again and again. Indian cinema moved beyond that. But still with all that I like the movie. It has something in it like the A3. At the first place. Acknowledge this fact that in Indian mainstream cinema u didn't saw a Muslim as a hero for long time. As our biggest icon and idol, SRK also playing raaj, rahul or veer pratap singh or mohan bhargva after a small role in hey ram' as amzad khan. Acknowledge that as a writer it's difficult for jaideep sahni to convince yashraj on a story which has a leading man called 'kabir khan'. CHAK DE INDIA is an average film. Nothing new that stands apart. But chak de is a film with heart. As a sports film it captures the right story, the underdog story. Hockey is the most wasted sport for India in our times and in women's hockey the case is worst. So like the most celebrated sports film India had... LAGAAN, chak de is also blended with the same underdog becomes winner story line. And u all know this fact that if Tom and Jerry fight happened, tom came out as winner each time! This is the main essence of storytelling. Shahrukh is acted with none of his KING KHAN style first time after SWADES. Although it's true that SWADES is a much better film in every department, Chak de is in the same compartment. With a good storyline (that's the biggest good in the movie) it ensembles a rainbow of characters from each part of the country. The challenge for coach is to build a team from 16 different identities. And With that he provides the ultimate strength India has, "unity in diversity". The stand out character is komal choutala with his hariyanvi accent but special mention to bindiya naik. Only girl stands with srk on acting level. Shilpa shukla played this character with all his skill she acquired in her theatre life so far. Actually the credit goes to the writer who defined every small character so well. Jaideep... You proved me again. What I wrote after KHOSLA KA GHOSLA, you maintained my words. Keep the good work going! I don't have much knowledge but it looks like the camera work is little loose. The match is not looking that great as an ESPN telecast looks. Give your opinion on that? All movie technocrat friends are invited on this. Shammi, sanjay, nidhi... I am waiting on that... The climax with penalty shootout was too predictable. Create little more drama next time. After all... A simple film with a good heart. The rating is 3/5. Enjoy rain... Bye... ...miHir :) --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From lakshmi.r at crymail.org Tue Aug 14 17:27:14 2007 From: lakshmi.r at crymail.org (Lakshmi R.) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:27:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] FELLOWSHIP ANNOUNCEMENT PROGRAMME--REQUEST TO SHARE THROUGH YOUR WEBSITE AND WITH YOUR READERS Message-ID: <472E0AD6-F96F-475D-B68D-84BE7BA48D71@crymail.org>  National Child Rights Research Fellowships CRY---Child Rights and You, invites applications for research fellowships investigating the best interest principle within the broad framework of justice for children. The best interest principle, hence, needs to be explored so as to understand ways in which it impacts the inter-generational experience of childhoods; a child's relationship with other children, family (both immediate and extended), community, society and the State. (Possible arenas: schools, work spaces, public spaces, parents, extended family including grandparents, health centres, police stations, playgrounds) A partial indicative list of focus areas is provided below.Potential fellows are welcome to expand and interpret the theme, based on their life experiences and vision. We encourage original ideas, out of the box approaches and seek creative methodologies. From the insights and information that researchers will share, we hope to learn more about the interplay of culture, tradition, law, ethics and policy in defining the best interest principle. Possible Focus Areas Ø Investigate what factors encourage collective action on behalf of children. Ø Reflect on constructions of childhood and the implications on children's rights. Ø Generate insights on how children understand violence (domestic, caste-based, communal, from the State), and their coping strategies. Ø Map the trends and dynamics of social change processes and their implications for children, identifying faultlines and arenas of concerns. Ø Gather evidence on the relationships between ethnicity,inequality and conflict as witnessed and/or experienced by children. Ø Locating identity questions (language, discourse,representation) within the school-community relationship. Ø Is best interest principle, a value, a constitutional right,an interpretative advocacy instrument or a rule of law. Principles governing the Fellowship Eligibility: Potential fellows will be Indians residing in India, above the age of 18 years. There is no upper age limit.Preference will be given to applicants who have studied in government schools, where no fees are charged (Studies conducted and CRY's experiential learning of working with 2000 deprived communities in villages and urban slums demonstrates that students attending government schools are primarily Dalits, tribals, girls and children from female headed and/or landless households.) It is expected that potential fellows ascribe to the CRY values: -Respect for Human Dignity -Secularism -Non-Violence - Accountability -Innovation - Transparency -Working in Partnership Language: Proposals may be submitted in any Indian language. They will be translated into English and it is the English translation that will be reviewed. Grant Sizes: In all upto 10 fellowships for grant sizes ranging from Rs.50,000 to Rs.1 lakh will be awarded. These will be support grants and fellows will be free to continue their primary occupation or study programme. Time Frame: From one month to one year. Time Frame: >From one month to one year. Selected fellows will be expected to participate in an initial workshop to share research plans and gain from the collective experience possibly in January 2008. CRY will take care of travel, boarding and lodge for fellows participating in the workshop. Dissemination: Research results will be made available to a broad audience of activists, academics, programmers and interested general public through multiple fora, including language translations to influence the course of the debate on child rights and the best interest principle. Ownership: While fellows will retain authorship of the final research product, all information and insights gathered will be open access and available to the widest possible numbers, for no charge. Fellows will also be free to publish the insights of their research efforts, with appropriate acknowledgement of the National Child Rights Research Fellowship and CRY. Requirements for English language proposals: Please e-mail a three- page proposal (it should include scope, relevance, research question, conceptual framework, proposed methodology, time frame and required budget) along with a two-page CV (please include a names and contact phone numbers of two referees) and a sample of related published/ unpublished work. Proposals which do not include names and phone numbers of referees will not be reviewed. Please send only Word or Acrobat files. It is expected that the potential fellow is not already receiving funding for conduct of the research proposed. In case during the course of the Fellowship, the fellow feels the need to expand the scope and add greater depth, it is expected that CRY will be informed first about the need for additional funds. Also any other donors reached out to will be informed about the CRY support for the principal work. Requirements for proposals in all languages other than English: Please send by post a three-page proposal (it should include scope, relevance, research, question, conceptual framework, proposed methodology, time frame and required budget) along with a two-page CV, and a sample of related published/ unpublished work. Our address is Documentation Centre, CRY –Child Rights and You, 189 A, Anand Estate, Sane Guruji Marg, Mahalaxmi, Mumbai – 400 011. Last Date for receipt of application: September 10th 2007. Proposals will be reviewed as they are received. E-mail your proposal to research at crymail.org Lakshmi R Sr. Manager - Development Support 189/A, Anand Estate Sane Guruji Marg, Mumbai - 400011 Tel: +91 (022) 23096845 / 6472 Fax: +91 (022) 23080726 I believe that every Indian child must be guaranteed equal rights to survival, protection, development and participation. As a part of CRY, I dedicate myself to mobilising all sections of society to ensure justice for children. This communication may contain confidential and / or privileged information intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by reply mail and delete this message from your computer. You are prohibited from copying , disseminating, retransmitting and / or delivering this message to anyone. Any opinions, comments, statements and / or other information in this message do not necessarily reflect those of CRY - Child Rights and You and are not endorsed by it and will not act to its prejudice. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pukar at pukar.org.in Fri Aug 17 15:10:31 2007 From: pukar at pukar.org.in (PUKAR) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:10:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [announcements] August 28 : Talk by Vishakha Desai, at NCPA, Mumbai Message-ID: <011201c7e0b2$ac046c40$2b66c2cb@freeda> Asia Society India Centre & India China Institute, The New School, NY invite you to Rise of China and India: Implications for Building an "Asian Community" by Vishakha N. Desai, President, Asia Society Tuesday, August 28, 2007 Little Theatre, NCPA, Mumbai Registration: 6:00 PM Talk: 6:30 PM Reception: 7:30-8:30 PM How will the emergence of India and China impact the creation of an Asian community? What are the potential challenges and consequences of developing an Asian community given current bilateral and multilateral relations between China, India and the rest of Asia? How will the resultant intra-Asian dynamics influence the geo-economic and geo-political world order? Dr. Vishakha N. Desai, President of Asia Society, will address these questions both in the context of historical and cultural ties, and current political and economic relations among countries in the region. Dr. Vishakha N. Desai was appointed President of Asia Society in 2004. Prior to her appointment as President she served as Asia Society's Senior Vice President and Director of the Museum and Cultural Programs. She also taught at the University of Massachusetts, Boston University and Columbia University. Dr. Desai holds a B.A. in Political Science from Bombay University and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Asian Art History from the University of Michigan. Seating limited. To Register Please Contact: Jolene Tauro, Tel: +91-22-6610-0888, Fax: +91-22-6610-0887, E-mail: admin at asiasociety.org.in Or Anupamaa Joshi, Tel: +91-22-6574-8152, Fax: +91-22-6664-0561, E-mail: pukar at pukar.org.in -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From keshvani at leoalmanac.org Sat Aug 18 09:25:31 2007 From: keshvani at leoalmanac.org (Nisar Keshvani, LEA) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:55:31 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Leonardo Electronic Almanac Supplement - Volume 15, Number 7 - 8, 2007 Message-ID: <5d60ab0c0708172055y4f4b4642yce2285673b583eb0@mail.gmail.com> ________________________________________________________________ Leonardo Electronic Almanac Volume 15, Number 7 - 8, 2007http://leoalmanac.org ISSN #1071-4391 ________________________________________________________________ LEONARDO REVIEWS ---------------- < Introduction by Michael Punt > < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski, Gloria Custance > reviewed by Sean Cubitt < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > reviewed by Amy Ione < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > reviewed by Dene Grigar < Leonardo Reviews, August 2007 > LEONARDO -------- < Table of Contents: Leonardo Vol. 40, No. 4, 2007 > LEONARDO NETWORK NEWS --------------------- < Leonardo/OLATS Awards the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware > < MutaMorphosis Conference Speakers Announced > < Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) opens new Chinese language database > BYTES ----- < Digital Humanities Chair Position available at Dartmouth College > ________________________________________________________________ LEONARDO REVIEWS, August 2007 ________________________________________________________________ Judging by the current publishing trend we are all fast approaching middle age or even our dotage: by all, I mean those of us who participated in the secessionist hey days of 'media art' and thought that art, perception, and the world would be changed by new technologies. Now we know, at least from the three MIT publications highlighted in Leonardo Reviews here, that nothing changes. After the brief wild party, the historians have come in to sweep up the pieces into a sensible heap. This is not to decry writing history, an enterprise that I hope I also have contributed to. It is merely to point out that at least as far as publishing in the field of science, art and technology is concerned it is about time to quietly abandon the word 'new' when we talk of media - even when it is willfully confused with technology. The three featured reviews below identify distinct historical methods for conceptualizing the relationship between art and those technologies that some choose to call media. Our reviewers collectively address this topic and their dialogue sets up the debate about how future histories are to be written. Histories in which the assumptions, parallelisms and the tenuous associations of coincidence of populist writing are replaced by the rigor of researchers trained to avoid the seductions of their own rhetoric. Not only in these three reviews but also throughout the recent postings at http://www.leonardo.info/reviews/books.html the maturation of our practices, discussions and reflections concerning the intersection of art, science and technology is increasingly evident. We hope that the early warning radar of this trend will be reflected in our future reviews for the benefit of the Leonardo community Michael Punt Editor-in-Chief Leonardo Reviews < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski, Gloria Custance > reviewed by Sean Cubitt Siegfried Zielinski offers a new take on the long history of media technologies, taking his readers on a tour of forgotten archives and forgotten innovators. Familiar names appear, among them a fascinating repositioning of Athanasius Kircher. By refusing to accept the normative histories, Zielinski recovers a lost trajectory that involves a long tradition of magical and quasi-rational thought from Empedocles to the Illuminati and, thence, to the late 19th century reinvention of time. Among those recovered from obscurity are Giovan Battista Della Porta, Purkyne, Lombroso and the extraordinary Aleksej Kapitanovich Gastev. In his conclusion, Zielinski not only draws together the legacy of Ramon Llull, but proposes a new cartography of media 'anarcheology', whose centres are no longer London, Paris, Berlin and New York but Petersburg, Prague and places south and east. It is a marvelous book in the most literal sense of the word, and a wonderful read in its own right, quite apart from the scholarship and the revelation of new trajectories for media historiography. One reason for this is that the book opens onto a landscape of strangely familiar if obscure beauty: the history of the magical tradition as an intellectual pathway now left in darkness, but once a shining path for intellectual and technological enquiry. Zielinski's passion for the hermetic tradition steers clear of the worst excesses of Jungian mysticism while recalling the line, from Robert Fludd to Vilém Flusser, that situates a history of media in the gnostic tradition in Western Europe. He reminds us that Newton's dark obsession with alchemy is of a piece with his physics and optics; and that Copernicus is as much the heir of Pico della Mirandola's solar worship as he is the ancestor of scientific rationalism. It is an attractive thought, that right knowing of material science sails so close to the perennial philosophy; and that however materialist this history is, it addresses, if only by rejection, the repressed chronotope of the eternal wisdom. What has always repelled materialists from the hermetic tradition is not its whimsy but on the contrary the solemnity with which its priesthood has historically erected ever more complex cathedrals of theodicy and theogeny on the intuition that something 'more' inhabits, locates and frames the givenness of the world. It is sad therefore to note that materialism has often - though not universally - eschewed any address to the sacred. By this I do not mean that materialism in any way fails for lack of a theology, nor that the sacred forms some ontological ground on which the material world is more deeply founded. Rather, what has been often lacking is a commitment to understanding that affect which we recognise under the rubric of sacredness, an elevation beyond not merely the instinctual but also the intellectual pleasures, a yearning apart from the desire for justice, peace and plenty for all. Since the term sacred has, moreover, been tainted by centuries of mouthing in institutions that have done little for justice, peace or plenty, we need another term, one that might displace the materialist reluctance to address affect in general and this affect in particular. I propose a mediological enquiry into the nature of wonder, a task admirably launched by Zielinski's book. Quite properly Zielinski calls this tradition 'magic'. It is hard nowadays not to evoke Arthur C Clarke's dictum that any sufficiently advanced technology appears as magic. What neither Clarke nor Zielinski undertake is an analysis of the curiously braided destinies of magic and familiarity. As Don Ihde observes, technologies that at their invention appear magical can, with widespread adoption, become 'embedded' and transparent, as signs written in one's native language are transparent. Embedded technologies like television, once marvellous, become the invisible vehicles of messages whose mediation we notice only when the machinery breaks down. The braiding of magic and the mundane occurs when familiarity breeds contentment. The internet is a case in point. Early adopters not only found the technology marvellous: we found it interesting. The early adopter generation tended to be computer literate, at least at the level of understanding (and wondering at) the processes of packet switching, the efficacy of html, even the duplicity of cookie technology. But for the internet generation who grew up with them, these marvels are the more truly magical because they are not understood. Comprehension of how the net works is today a specialist discipline, or the domain of nerds, and while nerds command a higher degree of peer respect than in previous generations, their knowledge is regarded as arcane, and only its instrumental use in problem solving genuinely prized. For the rest, the web, e-mail, IRC are apparitions whose arrival might as well be the result of angels fluttering in Intel Core Duos as of the massive infrastructure of satellites, fibre- optics, domain name servers and internet access points. Not only does this leave internet governance at the mercy of cultures of expertise; nor merely open the doors to the exercise of power through control of code and protocol. It can also be damned for condemning us to good-enough solutions, like web-safe colours. At the same time, this state of affairs echoes with the same magical apparatuses that Zielinski points us towards. The difference is that while embedded internet appears without explanation or the need for it, it rarely evokes the sense of wonder that Zielinski's protagonists and their audiences so graphically experienced. It is a task - perhaps preliminary, but vital - of critical enquiry to restore that sense of wonder in the face of technologies that have become banal. There is a further refinement required to the concepts of the hermetic tradition and of magic that such a project requires. Hermeticism's reliance on correspondences - on similarities held to embody a deeper linkage between phenomena at some metaphysical level - has a tendency to proliferate connections, drawing ragged collocations of words, numbers and things into mystic configurations. Pilloried by Umberto Eco in his novels, and defended as the root of radical (and contemporary) art practice by Barbara Maria Stafford, the practice of analogy can be as ludicrous as it is illuminating. Critical studies of technology seeking to induce a sense of the strangeness of their objects need to be alert to both the poetic affordances of analogy and its capacity for mystification. The methodological brush with magic reminds us that the world still has surprises in store for us. Should the word 'surprise' seem too redolent of fairground attractions, Tom Gunning has taught us that this is no bad thing. If we are to retain our capacity for amazement, we have to remain open to the chance encounter of the sewing machine and the umbrella stand on the operating table. If this encounter explains nothing, we must place it alongside more licit engines of interpretation which, it appears, increasingly can offer only approximations, intimations, abstractions of or from reality. Fractal geometry, the uncertainty principle, string theory all move away from claims to describe nature and natural processes. Without abandoning the claim to some kind of relation to reality, such theoretical and mathematical models no longer offer one-to-one transcriptions of the real. The relation is neither one of utter deracination nor of simulacra lacking an original. On the contrary, such expressions mediate between reality and ourselves using processes that often enough arise equally from natural and artificial domains. Zielinski's book traces processes of mediation that have found some material form that would allow some mode of conformation or congruence between terms. His achievement is to have noted that proximity is no guarantor of truth: the fleck in my own eye is as strange as, if not stranger than, the beam in my ancestor's. < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > reviewed by Amy Ione Technological and virtual art have become so prevalent in recent years that I find it difficult to conceptualize a world in which static media were the norm. Frank Popper's From Technological to Virtual Art chronicles the trajectory that brought about this revolution. Defining virtual art as art that allows us, through an interface with technology, to immerse ourselves in the image and interact with it, the book surveys the originality and power of recent projects and offers some historical antecedents as well. A well-respected art historian, long at the forefront of art and technology studies, Popper is an appropriate figure to present this material. Among those who have taken the art/ science/technology interface from the fringes and into the mainstream, his expertise is vividly translated into this well-documented and comprehensive study of the paradigmatic change. Here he argues that the move toward technologically based projects, largely begun in the twentieth century, has humanized technology due to an emphasis on interactivity. It is also noteworthy that many of the artists Popper focuses on see their commitment to art in larger terms. As the book details, this brings them in touch with politics, the community, and various social dimensions. Reading through the publication is like visiting an exhibition with a smorgasbord of themes, a global sweep, and sensitivity to the personal relationship artists establish with their projects. Popper sets the stage with an impressive history of technology- inspired work from 1918 to 1983 that immediately demonstrates the wealth of material packed into this volume. Accounting for about a third of the book, Part I includes historical antecedents and key figures. This section begins to make it clear that the artistic imagination sometimes finds the "right" technology through incremental experimentation. Surveying technologies that include lasers, holography and eco- technological, computer and communication art, the overview also offers a fine foundation for the coverage of contemporary technological/virtual art and artists, which comprises the bulk of the publication. Part II is subdivided into sections on materialized digital-based work, off-line multimedia and multisensoral works, interactive digital installations, and multimedia online works (net art). Covering 1983-2004, the second part examines plastic and cognitive issues, sensory experiments, interactivity, and experimental modalities more recently pursued. Well-crafted vignettes of key innovators, in both sections, underscore that many practitioners who bring science and technology into their research are sensitive to aesthetic values. What sets them apart is that formal elements are addressed in tandem with investigations of everything from politics to philosophical questions about the real, their own virtual "space," connections between the real, the virtual, and the imagined, and multisensory experience. Indeed, the juxtapositions of themes and formal goals accounts for the work's strength and power. Given its sweep, From Technological to Virtual Art is a hard book to evaluate critically. Popper shows a willingness to let the artists speak for themselves and honors their intentions by explaining their aspirations non-judgmentally. This style of authorship successfully outlines artistic histories and the movement's growth but does not contextualize the kinds of critical themes that are apt to arise in a general academic discussion of the art, science, and technology interface. It is my impression that when critical questions were introduced in depth it was because an artist brought this dimension into a discussion with Popper. This minimalistic approach led me to relish the few parts where deeper issues were more fully brought into play. One of these exceptions was in the chapter on Interactive Digital Installations; perhaps the strongest in the book. Here there is some discussion of how the transcendental approach of immersive, virtual projects (such as Char Davies) intersects with the historical view. Stepping aside from his theme driven biographical survey style, Popper mentions how transcendence, as discussed by Plato, Kant, and other philosophers who have thought about this topic, differs from the common presentation of virtual art. Including more developed commentary throughout the book on how the field has re-visited philosophical issues and artistic questions would have added a nice tension to the chapters. Overall, the book works best as a tribute to the art/science/technology paradigm and as an invitation to seek out the pieces presented. I was delighted with the background material on a number of artists whose work I have encountered over the years, and on figures I know more by name than from exposure to their contributions. For example, Leonardo readers will particularly appreciate Popper's summary of the life, inventive mind, and artistic contributions of Frank Malina. Also of note were summaries on Patrick Lichty, Nina Czegledy, Catherine Ikam and Louis Fléri, Roy Ascott, Orlan, and Rafael Lozano-Hemmer. On the other hand, even a thorough introduction cannot include the wealth of talent within this community. In this case, I was sorry there was no mention of Margaret Dolinsky's work and wished that Victoria Vesna's research, particularly with nanotechnology, had received a fuller treatment. I also found myself surprised by some of the examples Popper chose. Jenny Holzer, for instance, is not someone I think of in terms of technological or virtual art, although her neon sign projects are well known and definitely qualify as technological artifacts. Just as I was ruminating on the Holzer section, I learned that she now has new silk-screen works on display at the Venice Biennial. Her latest turn to this older technology is a reminder that as the virtual becomes more a part of the art world, artists still move in and out of diverse media, at times returning to more traditional forms. Perhaps the book's greatest contribution is its expansion of the art/science/technology literature. Popper mentions early in the book that his intention is to present the history of technological and virtual art in a manner that goes beyond the contributions of Oliver Grau and Christine Buci-Glücksmann. In this he is successful. Grau makes a compelling case that media art has a history that is receiving more (well-deserved) attention, and Buci-Glücksmann demonstrates that technological art now has a place at the table. By contrast, Popper highlights the characters who have brought about our current vision. His much-needed history of key players brings Vasari's sixteenth- century Lives of the Artists to mind. This is not a trivial comparison. On the one hand, both authors present brief overviews of the revolutionary artists of an era. On the other hand, both authors offer presentations that need to accommodate the technological realities of their time. Vasari's descriptions were primarily textually based due to the limitations in printing visual images in the sixteenth century. Although the second edition included woodcuts of the faces of most of the artists mentioned, there were no reproductions of the artworks he described. Ironically, the Popper book is similarly limited in relation to the artworks. One or two small black and white static images accompany the short sketches of the various artists. While numerous, these are a far cry from the actual installations. Having said this, it should surprise no one that the distance between an illustrated text and physical reality was foremost on my mind as I read the book and prepared this review. During this period, coincidentally, I visited Anthony McCall's installation, You and I, Horizontal (2005) at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. Although McCall is a figure Popper does not include, he could easily have found a place in the mix. Interacting with this piece, which emphasized the sculptural qualities of a light beam as it comes in contact with a changing geometrical projection and particles in the air - here, vapor from a theatrical haze machine - I could not help but think how poorly this active piece would translate if presented as a small black and white reproduction, even though it is a monochromatic work. Spending time digesting its magical qualities, as the haze seemed to continually change its "physical" form(s) in real time and physical space, underscored how necessary the unfolding experience is to our comprehension of technological art, virtual art, and art in general. To be sure, Popper's words convey that he recognizes how hard it is to articulate all that "embodiment" adds in the book form. Fortunately he did try to address this limitation through the artist list at the end of the volume, which provides URLs that supplement the print medium. Finally, it is important to underscore that a short review cannot even begin to touch on the many wonderful tidbits of information Popper packs into this history. Without a doubt, his knowledge of the field and personal acquaintance with the range of artwork discussed elevates his exposition of motives, technology, and the creative problem-solving involved in moving a piece from idea to actuality. Even given the distance between the publication and the actual experience of the work, Technological to Virtual Art (particularly with the supplementary material) provides a nice overview of the field. It would be a wonderful choice for a textbook in a course exploring the professionals who have nurtured the current art/science/technology climate. Educators could enlarge the book with the URLs, onsite visits, and other media examples that more fully convey the artistic projects outlined in the text. Indeed, and to Popper's credit, much of the material about the work has genuineness to it that came about through his extensive reliance on personal interviews rather than secondary sources. Crafted to touch upon key themes within the work and the creative problem solving that motivated the artistic imagination and technological development needed to bring an aspiration to fruition, the book is a welcome addition to the field. Those who are new to the art/science/technology discipline will find the sweeping survey offers a nice map. Those who know the terrain will no doubt learn more about groundbreaking practitioners and appreciate the wealth of detail that illuminates how we got to this point in time. Libraries now building collections that cover the emergence of recent virtual and media projects should definitely put this book on their shelves. From Technological to Virtual Art is a book that marks the arrival of the art/science/technology perspective and presents the work of many of the innovative people responsible for its ascendancy. I highly recommend it. < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > reviewed by Dene Grigar It's hard to imagine a bolder or more in-depth book on digital performance than Steve Dixon's Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation. Exhaustive without being exhausting, Digital Performance includes 800 pages that outline histories as well as theories surrounding digital performance, with large sections of the book paying detailed attention to such topics as the "body," "space," "time," and "interactivity." Along with providing a history of digital performance, Dixon addresses assumptions and critiques views taken by some at face value. Little escapes Dixon's lens, for it is a book with roots in a long-running research project undertaken, from 1999-2001, by Dixon and Barry Smith that "document[ed] developments in the creative use of computer technologies in performance." Called The Digital Performance Archive (DPA), the web-based archive included "live theater and dance productions that incorporate[d] digital media to cyberspace interactive dramas and webcasts. . . [and] collate[d] examples of the use of computers technologies to document, discuss, or analyze performance, including specialist websites, e-zines, and academic CD-ROMs" (ix). The book begins with a revised perspective of the postmodern take on art, challenging Lev Manovich's stance on new media art, which Dixon says "fetishizes the technology without regard for artistic vision and content" (5) and views that ignore the influence of Italian Futurism (and those movements connected to it) on digital performance (47). Section one of the book traces this influence as well as the development of digital performance in three periods, looking first at the avant-garde in the early 20th C, then to multimedia theater from 1911-1959, and finally to technology infused performance work from 1960 onwards. Section two concerns itself with the "Theories and Contexts" surrounding digital performance, starting with the "liveness problem" (115), then "Postmodernism and Posthumanism," "The Digital Revolution," and "Digital Dancing and Software Developments." Here Dixon critiques postmodern theories that he says "can . . . operate doctrinally to impose specific and sometimes inappropriate ideas onto cultural and artistic works" (135) - and takes on the theorists who propose them. Jay David Bolter and Richard Grusin's "remediation," Dixon says, though not a new idea (it is itself repurposed from the "disposal and recycling industries") does shed light on "inherent dialectical tensions at play within computer representations and simulations" (136). George Landow, Dixon tells us, possesses "evangelical zeal typical of the writers at the time" (137). Dixon points to Diane Gromala's utilization of Lyotard's language game to talk about new technologies and, then, Deleuze and Guttari's theories to explain her views of virtual reality and, next, to Gregory Ulmer's focus on Derrida, Lacan, and Wittgenstein for theories of hypertextuality. A whole section is devoted to Jean Baudrillard, whose nihilistic and cynical view of technology, while "seductive and compelling," is "over the top" and in the end offers a view that is for the most part one- sided and incomplete (140-143). There is a section, also, on Derrida, whose theory of deconstruction (particularly, that the "world [is] constant flux") does not really fit "the liveness of theater," which "conspires to fix time and space" (author's emphasis, 145). It would be easy to react to Dixon's critique of theory as simply as one of a Monday morning quarterback able to make better claims in hindsight than those living in the moment of action, as he picks apart past ideas, showing them to be hyperbolic or faulty. When he writes, for example, that "an inescapable fact about the progression of software is that after the initial miracle of new computer 'life,' a certain sameness and staleness creeps in through the repetition that replaced the initial awe and wonderment" (208), we have to ask, isn't this problem true for all new things? Is it just a problem with software? I say this because I remember having to explain to a roomful of college students why Piet Mondrian's Composition in Blue, Yellow, and Black is, paraphrasing their comments, "a big deal, considering that the painting was just lines and squares that anyone can do with PhotoShop." The fact does remain that postmodernism does (or did, depending on one's perspective) offer an alternative to ancient Greek philosophy and worldviews that have dominated the Western world for over two thousand years and don't necessarily work for a contemporary world that is vastly larger and more technologically advanced than that of 5th century Athens. At some point we do get excited about something new and must be able to map new views onto our new world. But the question Dixon forces us to remember is, when and which ones? But this questioning of Dixon's perspective on postmodernism does not mean that his insights are off base. Far from the truth: They are right on target for those performers and performance scholars who have long wondered about the wisdom of placing so much importance on theories not born out of performance practice. Dixon's views will be perceived as sensible and be felt as breaths of fresh air. The next sections, as stated previously, look at the body, space, time, and interactivity. There is a lot to like in the next 600 pages, starting with Dixon's position that "bodies are not animated cadavers . . . . Bodies embody consciousness" (212), to the dream quality of performance (337), to the notion of "media time" (517), to his definition of and categories for interactivity (563), to cite just a few of the hundreds of pages of ideas and insights he offers. Readers looking to consult the DPA database introduced at the front of the book will be disappointed that it is not currently available. Some may wonder why Dixon did not cite Mike Phillips' wry work concerning Shakespeare's works and monkeys but simply alluded to it (166) or question his spelling of Margarete Jahrmann and Max Moswitzer's work, the "nibble-engine-project" (611) when they themselves write of it as "nybble-engine." Women who have been working with computers for decades may take umbrage at Dixon's own assumption that the internet was populated by cowboys, forgetting about us cowgirls (160) or grrls, as many of us called ourselves. Despite these issues, Dixon's book possesses both depth and breadth that performance theorists and practitioners will find not only useful but also necessary for research and teaching. As such Dixon's book is not a history of digital performances but rather a book about the whole concept of digital performance. _______________________ Leonardo Reviews, August 2007 < Bullshit by Pea Holmquist and Suzanne Khardalian > Reviewed by Jonathan Zilberg < Cartographic Cinema by Tom Conley > Reviewed by Jan Baetens < Clarence John Laughlin: Prophet Without Honor by A.J. Meek > Reviewed by Allan Graubard < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski and Gloria Custance > Reviewed by Sean Cubitt < Design Anarchy by Kalle Lasn > Reviewed by John F. Barber < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > Reviewed by Dene Grigar < Dub: Soundscapes and Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae by Michael E. Veal > Reviewed by Stefaan Van Ryssen < The Face of Evil by David Tosco, Director > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Forever by Heddy Honigann > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > Reviewed by Amy Ione < Imagining MIT: Designing a Campus for the Twenty-First Century by William J. Mitchell > Reviewed by Dr Eugenia Fratzeskou < Jules Kirschenbaum: The Need to Dream of Some Transcendent Meaning by Thomas Worthen > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Mind as Machine: A History of Cognitive Science by Margaret Boden > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Native Moderns: American Indian Painting, 1940-1960 by Bill Anthes > Reviewed by Jonathan Zilberg < Notes on Marie Menken by Martina Kudlacek > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Ohne Schnur: Kunst und Drahtlose Kommunikation Edited by Katja Kwastek > Reviewed by Stefaan Van Ryssen < Our Daily Bread by Nikolaus Geyrhalter > and < The Gleaners and I by Agnes Varda > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Shigeru Ban: An Architect for Emergencies by Michel Quinejure > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens To read all the reviews posted for August 2007, visit Leonardo Reviews at: . ______________________________________________________ LEONARDO, VOL. 40, No. 4 (July 2007) TABLE OF CONTENTS AND SELECT ABSTRACTS ______________________________________________________ Editorial < Research on and from within Creative Practice > by Ernest Edmonds _______________________ Special Section: The Fire Arts of Burning Man < Introduction: A Passion to Burn > by Louis M. Brill < Curator Overview: Playing with Fire > by Christine Kristen (a.k.a. LadyBee) ABSTRACT: Fire as an art form is evolving in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada, where many Burning Man artists explore the creation and manipulation of fire in their installations. Sculptors, engineers, geeks and pyromaniacs experiment with open fires, pressurized gases and pyrotechnics to produce mesmerizing and beautiful works of art. < Burning Man Artists' Statements > by Joe Bard and Danya Parkinson, Tim Black, Larry Breed, Paul Cesewski and Jenne Giles, Bill Codding, Dan Das Mann, Wally Glenn, Lucy Hosking, Syd Klinge, Tamara Li, Dan Ng, Andrew Sano, Jack Schroll, Eric Singer, Nate Smith, Charlie Smith and Jaime Ladet, Kal Spelletich, Kasia Wojnarski _______________________ General Note < The Use of Artistic Analogies in Chemical Research and Education > by Balazs Hargittai and Magdolna Hargittai ABSTRACT: This compilation presents examples of artistic artifacts that have served as successful visual analogies to aspects of chemistry. The authors have used them in various college-level chemistry classes, outreach programs and chemistry textbooks, as well as in journals and monographs. They include ancient Chinese, Turkish and Thai sculptures, modern sculptures and a medieval fresco. These examples illustrate the chemical concept of chirality, the periodic table of the elements and molecular systems such as buckminsterfullerene, nanotubes and quasicrystals. _______________________ Transactions < Interactive Experience in Public Context: Tango Tangle > by Zafer Bilda < Constraints and Creativity in the Digital Arts > by Linda Candy < Interaction as a Medium in Architectural Design > by Joanne Jakovich and Kirsty Beilharz < A Pleasure Framework > by Brigid Costello < Fundamental Insights on Complex Systems Arising from Generative Arts Practice > by C. Burraston _______________________ Special Section: ArtScience: The Essential Connection < Deconstructing the Genome with Cinema > by Gabriel A. Harp ABSTRACT: Evidence from language, history and form suggest an analogy between the cinema and the genome. The author describes some of the relationships between cinema and the genome and points to opportunities for discovering unmarked categories within the genome and new methods of representation. This is accomplished by evaluating existing metaphors presented for the understanding of genetics and revealing how current scientific understanding and social concerns suggest a cinematic alternative. The formal principles of function, difference and development mediate discussion and serve as heuristics for investigating creative opportunities. < Fractal Graphic Designer Anton Stankowski > by Vladimir A. Shlyk ABSTRACT: The author introduces an outstanding master of graphic design and photography, Anton Stankowski, as a fractal artist. Stankowski saw his challenge as inventing a visual graphic language capable of depicting natural and technological processes and abstract notions in an aesthetic and comprehensible way. Many of Stankowski's works demonstrate fractal-like characteristics. Analysis of his theory of design provides convincing evidence that this is not accidental. Stankowski used these features consciously. He devised and applied a principle of organizing forms in pictures by means of two components, branching and regeneration, both of which are properties of self-similarity and the underlying bases of fractals. _______________________ From the Leonardo Archive < Introduction > by Darlene Tong and Roger F. Malina < Caricature Generator, the Dynamic Exaggeration of Faces by Computer and Illustrated Works > by Susan Brennan (Reprinted from Leonardo Vol. 18, No. 3, 1985) ABSTRACT: The author has researched and developed a theory of computation for caricature and has implemented this theory as an interactive computer graphics program. The Caricature Generator program is used to create caricatures by amplifying the differences between the face to be caricatured and a comparison face. This continuous, parallel amplification of facial features on the computer screen simulates the visualization process in the imagination of the caricaturist. The result is a recognizable, animated caricature, generated by computer and mediated by an individual who may or may not have facility for drawing, but who, like most human beings, is expert at visualizing and recognizing faces. _______________________ Leonardo Reviews Reviews by Kathryn Adams, Wilfred Niels Arnold, John F. Barber, Martha Blassnigg, Andrea Dahlberg, Sean Cubitt, Amy Ione, Mike Leggett, Michael Punt, Eugene Thacker, Stefaan Van Ryssen, Jonathan Zilberg ______________________________________________________ LEONARDO NETWORK NEWS ______________________________________________________ < Leonardo/OLATS Awards the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware > We are pleased to announce that Leonardo/OLATS and the Electroacoustic Music Studies Network (EMS Network) have awarded the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware (Jon Cates, Ben Syverson and Jon Satrom) for their paper "likn: A Flexible Platform for Information and Metadata Exchange" which they presented at the Electroacoustic Music Studies Conference in Beijing, October 2006. criticalartware's likn project is an artware application that addresses the nature of knowledge, ideas and language in the era of globalization. More specifically, likn is a functional online collaborative environment which wages a persistent critique of the desire to standardize and universalize meaning, and offers an alternative by applying postmodern and postcolonial theories to the challenge of organizing discourse and media. The paper can be accessed online at http://www.leonardo.info/isast/announcements/LeoEMS2006_announce .html The Leonardo-EMS jury convened on Thursday, October 26 after the official closure of the third Electroacoustic Music Studies Conference. The Leonardo-EMS jury, consisting of Marc Battier, Kenneth Fields and Ricardo dal Farra, was thrilled at the high quality of presentations by young researchers during the Beijing event and the final decision was difficult to reach. The EMS Network has been organized to fill an important gap in electroacoustic music, namely focusing on the better understanding of the various manifestations of electroacoustic music. Areas related to the study of electroacoustic music range from the musicological to more interdisciplinary approaches, from studies concerning the impact of technology on musical creativity to the investigation of the ubiquitous nature of electroacoustic sounds today. The choice of the word "network" is of fundamental importance, as one of the goals of the EMS Network is to make relevant initiatives more widely available. More about the Electroacoustic Music Studies Network can be found at http://www.ems-network.org Leonardo/OLATS has established a collaboration with the EMS network through which annual Leonardo-EMS Awards for Excellence will be made for the best contribution to the EMS symposium by a young researcher as decided by a joint jury. < MutaMorphosis Conference Speakers Announced > The MutaMorphosis conference is part of the Leonardo 40th Anniversary celebrations and of the e n t e r 3 festival. The festival will feature performances, screenings and exhibitions at various locations around Prague 8 - 11 November 2007, including the first retrospective of Frank J. Malina (artist, scientist and founder of Leonardo). Scheduled Plenary Speakers at this time are: Roy Ascott Terror Incognito: Steps toward an Extremity of Mind Albert-László Barabási The Architecture of Complexity Louis Bec Václav Cílek Climate as the Last Wilderness David Dunn & James P. Crutchfield Insects, Trees, and Climate: The Bioaocustic Ecology of Deforestation and Entomogenic Climate Change Roger F. Malina Limits of Cognition: Artists in the Dark Universe Stelarc Alternate Anatomical Architectures: Extruded, Empty and Absent Bodies Victoria Vesna & James Gimzewski The new territory of nano Plenary speakers abstracts are available on line at:http://www.mutamorphosis.org Join us in Prague November 8 - 10, 2007 for this outstanding international event! MutaMorphosis concentrates on the growing interest - within the worlds of the arts, sciences and technologies - in EXTREME AND HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS. More than 60 renowned practitioners in the arts, sciences, engineering and humanities will speak about the limits and extremes in our conceptions of life, space and cognition. Feel free to BROWSE the abstracts at our web sitehttp://www.mutamorphosis.org where you can also REGISTER and BOOK your hotel at special conference prices. Please note that the capacity of the conference halls is limited. - Early registration: June 1, 2007 - July 31, 2007 - Regular registration: August 1, 2007 - October 15, 2007 The international conference MutaMorphosis: Challenging Arts and Sciences is organized by CIANT - International Centre for Art and New Technologies in Prague and co-organized by Leonardo/ISAST, Hexagram - Institute for Research/Creation in Media Arts and Technologies and Pépinières européenes pour jeunes artistes. Should you require further information do not hesitate to contact us at mutamorphosis at ciant.cz. < Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) opens new Chinese language database > Leonardo is delighted to announce the opening of the Chinese language Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) database, following the establishment of the English language and Spanish language LABS databases. The Chinese language LABS, organized by Ken Fields at the China Electronic Music Center at China's Central Conservatory of Music, is for abstracts of art/science/technology MA or PHD theses written in Chinese and can be found at: http://china-labs.daohaus.org The Chinese-language peer review panel for 2006/2007 includes: Ma Gang, Central Academy of Fine Art, Beijing Zhang Peili, China Academy of Fine Art, Hangzhou Zhang Xiaofu, Central Conservatory of Music, Beijing Zhu Qingsheng, Peking University, Beijing Lothar Spree, Tongji University, Shanghai --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leonardo electronic almanac alerts list" group. To post to this group, send email to LEAalerts at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to LEAalerts-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/LEAalerts -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From vrjogi at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 10:22:10 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house Message-ID: Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions. I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik? To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim? Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars ) Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.) Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register _________________________________________________________________ The idiot box is no longer passe! http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/TV/Default.aspx From weekendfilms at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 11:41:29 2007 From: weekendfilms at gmail.com (Weekend films) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:41:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Screening_of_S?= =?windows-1252?q?anjay_Joshi=92s_documentary_film_=96_KAHANIKAAR_A?= =?windows-1252?q?MARKANT_=26_Weekend_Films=92_KUMBH_MELA_=96_A_DIV?= =?windows-1252?q?INE_CONFLUENCE=2E?= Message-ID: <205a7b590708192311n742e8debo17a04f73f6f58fbc@mail.gmail.com> Friends, Weekend Films in association with Rajendra Prasad Academy cordially invite you to the screening of young film maker Sanjay Joshi's documentary film – KAHANIKAAR AMARKANT. Film is produced by Jo Production. On this occasion, we will also show the trailer of Weekend Films' forthcoming documentary film – KUMBH MELA – A DIVINE CONFLUENCE. Venue: Main Auditorium, Rajendra Bhavan, 210, Deen Dayal Upadhyay Marg, (Near ITO, Opposite Gandhi Peace Foundation), New Delhi – 110001 Date: Sunday, 26 August 2007 Time: 5.30 PM R.S.V.P. Rajendra Prasad Academy Weekend Films (9871401535) (9811577426, 9811912069) -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kj.impulse at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 10:27:53 2007 From: kj.impulse at gmail.com (Kavita Joshi [Impulse]) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:27:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA: 16] THE LIGHTNING TESTIMONIES - SCREENING INVITE Message-ID: <821019d70708192157r7de6e796qfbc02121c28406e9@mail.gmail.com> *Dear Friends,* *This is to invite you for the first screening of my new film - * * * *THE LIGHTNING TESTIMONIES * ** *on the 27th of August 2007 at 6.30 p.m. at the India International Center Auditorium , New Delhi . * ** *Please do come and invite others who may be interested. * *regards * *amar* * * FILM SYNOPSIS THE LIGHTNING TESTIMONIES a film by Amar Kanwar Why is one image different from the other? Why does an image seem to contain many secrets? What can release them so as to suddenly connect with many unknown lives. The Lightning Testimonies reflects upon a history of conflict in the Indian subcontinent through experiences of sexual violence. As the film explores this violence, there emerge multiple submerged narratives, sometimes in people, images and memories, and at other times in objects from nature and everyday life that stand as silent but surviving witnesses. In all narratives the body becomes central - as a site for honour, hatred and humiliation and also for dignity and protest. As the stories unfold, women from different times and regions come forward. The film speaks to them directly, trying to understand how such violence is resisted, remembered and recorded by individuals and communities. Narratives hidden within a blue window or the weave of a cloth appear, disappear and are then reborn in another vocabulary at another time. Using a range of visual vocabularies the film moves beyond suffering into a space of quiet contemplation, where resilience creates a potential for transformation. Duration - 1 hour 56 minutes, 2007, English and Hindi versions. Direction - Amar Kanwar Editing - Sameera Jain Camera - Ranjan Palit Sound - Suresh Rajamani Assistant Director - Sandhya Kumar Graphic Design - Sherna Dastur -- AMAR KANWAR New Delhi India Email : amarkanwar at gmail.com -- Kavita Joshi Filmmaker and Media Trainer. Delhi. http://kavitajoshi.blogspot.com +91. 98688 88642 mobile +91. 11. 28618315 main / +91. 11. 26511337 msg only --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive/ Visit our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org See the LIST OF FILMS in the Archive: http://www.delhifilmarchive.org/archive.html -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From vrjogi at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 12:34:14 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:04:14 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's house Message-ID: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000 Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions. I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik? To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim? Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars ) Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.) Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register The idiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! _________________________________________________________________ Catch the cricket action with MSN! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 20 14:19:44 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:49:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <493896.28486.qm@web8404.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Vedavati No, being tolerant doesn't mean being tolerant to the criminals and wrong-doers. I am against the so-called terrorists. But of course, it is the duty of our law and judiciary to prove who is a wrong-doer and who is not (which in the case of the names you mentioned, is undecided). I am simply referring to being tolerant to the ordianary citizens of the country whatever religion they may belong to, and not judge all the people of a certain community from the perspective of what their ancestors did centuries ago. If most Indian Muslims wanted Pakistan, then why didn't all of them migrate there? Why did the best talented muslims stay back here? The answer is simple - they didn't want Pakistan. And Jinnah was not the only one responsible for Pakistan. Nehru, Patel and Mountbatten played very strong role in the creation of Pakistan. And this fact is not a Congress history - congress will never accept it. I will give you a few more interesting facts which are proven/documented: 1. When large number of Muslim families in Delhi had packed up to leave for Pakistan, Maulana Azad gave a very emotional speech at Jama Masjid where he tried to persuade Muslims not to leave as THIS IS their homeland for centuries. And after his speech, many families actually decided to go back to their homes. 2. It is assumed that Muslim league which demanded Pakistan, was supported by all the Muslims of India, but the fact is that in an election conducted just before 1947, a very small percentage of Muslims voted for Muslim league. So, how can the demand of only a party (Muslim league) be considered a demand of all the Muslims. 3. It is assumed that the poet Iqbal gave the idea of Pakistan. Yes Iqbal did talk about a separate geograpical region (not a country) dominated by Muslims, but at a later stage Iqbal wrote a letter to one of his British friends, clarifying that he never meant a separate country for Muslims. 4. I have many relatives in Karachi who migrated from UP in 1947. Whenever I speak to them they cry for India. All of them, especially the older people, say that the creation of Pakistan was a futile excercise to them - they repent for having left their homes. As refugees they are second class citizens in that country. (this is the same story with all migrants - whether Hindus or Muslims, on either side of the border. And the statistics which you quote - 20 million Hindus - is debateable. What is your source of this statistics? If we start fighting over statistics, we will never reach any conclusions - these are subjective figures). Why do hide the fact that thousands of Muslims were killed in India (especially Punjab) before they could even migrate. The other issues that you raised, actually the answer to most of them lies in what I call "cultural diversity". That is most beautiful thing about our country - not to be found anywhere else. And cultural diversity demands that not everyone is forced to live the same way, with a uniform culture and laws. If I stayed back in India, I did so because I wanted to live in a multicutural country. Now if I am asked to live under conditions of uniformity, then what's the point of my not migrating to Pakistan. If my right to live with my culture is denied, then I might as well leave India. But where else can I go - there is no other place in the world that I can call home. S.F. (By the way, I want to know what is your definition of patriotism? Is putting a tricolour on ones' house or car patriotism? Is cheering for one's cricket team patriotism? Is making nuclear weapons patriotism? What is patriotism? What activities should I do to be called patriotic). --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as > I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, > I too would love to discuss certain issues with you > as I am also interested in solutions. > > I fully agree with you when you say that one must be > tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. > An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed > who loves India and who has national interest > foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship > war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, > Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in > equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is > not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you > expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin > malik? > To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it > is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only > because he is a Muslim? > > Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did > not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to > pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . > This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress > or Left parties. But real History tells something > else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak > and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim > community, Muslims did not look upon him as their > leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by > Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali > brothers. > ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular > Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable > to Muslims as well as Seculars ) > Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became > religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims > wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan > would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could > not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed > back in India because their daily bread & butter was > here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims > who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what > about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, > wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? > > One major difference was while in Pakistan even head > of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging > & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos > from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between > Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the > help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had > never dared to use against Muslims.) > > Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who > stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and > that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have > chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to > accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. > It appears they can understand only their rights > like reservations & implementation of Sacchar > committee report. But with rights comes > responsibility too. > > What is practised in India is not secularism, it is > minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. > Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa > muslims should send their children to regional > language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody > has stopped them from giving equal rights to their > female folks. To preserve their separate identity > they don’t do that. And unfortunately this > separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever > muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and > when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ > happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not > accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their > ways. > > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want > to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor > ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in > a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love > to engage in a debate with you if we both> are > interested in solutions. I feel that being> > patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> > not the only solution. Being tolerant and> > compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would > be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail > that I understand the pain> of all those who have > been affected by the violence,> hatred and > displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition > did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims > did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> > historically), and had to migrate to escape the> > violence. You may go and see the plight of many> > migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go > to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities > have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do > you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether > you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it > further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate > rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take > back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral > property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are > still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular > leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 > years to> > visit those camps), two of his best > friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they > were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members > of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped > mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and > if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > > should also start killing members of muslim league> > > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all > you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > > pakistan.> > and then talk about these > sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't > want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too > childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> > mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The > complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be > trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this > analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so > huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind > having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge > in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> > came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and > my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to > becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" > decided to call it their> home, they are> > no > longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > > let's talk about the guests> taking over the > house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if > they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> > can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this > house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on > that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha > or me to leave the> country> > if we do not > subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism > and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any > specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I > haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> > solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve > the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in > their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the > brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri > Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be > wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) > does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to > this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides > and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve > any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- > Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I > will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine > a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > > distant relatives come to your house & start> > > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately > they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take > refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to > protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be > honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests > are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to > throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in > the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing > terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out > Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a > nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to > say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my > country! === message truncated === Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From faiz.outsider at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:53:44 2007 From: faiz.outsider at gmail.com (faiz ullah) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:53:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] to win an argument... Message-ID: <96c0bb200708200323r406ed6far95b10f01cfb5f6c@mail.gmail.com> *38 Ways To Win An Argument* *by Arthur Schopenhauer* *1 Carry your opponent's proposition beyond its natural limits; exaggerate it.* The more general your opponent's statement becomes, the more objections you can find against it. The more restricted and narrow your own propositions remain, the easier they are to defend. *2 Use different meanings of your opponent's words to refute his argument.* Example: Person A says, "You do not understand the mysteries of Kant's philosophy." Person B replies, "Oh, if it's mysteries you're talking about, I'll have nothing to do with them." *3 Ignore your opponent's proposition, which was intended to refer to some particular thing.* Rather, understand it in some quite different sense, and then refute it. Attack something different than what was asserted. *4 Hide your conclusion from your opponent until the end.* Mingle your premises here and there in your talk. Get your opponent to agree to them in no definite order. By this circuitous route you conceal your goal until you have reached all the admissions necessary to reach your goal. *5 Use your opponent's beliefs against him.* If your opponent refuses to accept your premises, use his own premises to your advantage. Example, if the opponent is a member of an organization or a religious sect to which you do not belong, you may employ the declared opinions of this group against the opponent. *6 Confuse the issue by changing your opponent's words or what he or she seeks to prove.* Example: Call something by a different name: "good repute" instead of "honor," "virtue" instead of "virginity," "red-blooded" instead of "vertebrates". *7 State your proposition and show the truth of it by asking the opponent many questions.* By asking many wide-reaching questions at once, you may hide what you want to get admitted. Then you quickly propound the argument resulting from the proponent's admissions. *8 Make your opponent angry.* An angry person is less capable of using judgment or perceiving where his or her advantage lies. *9 Use your opponent's answers to your question to reach different or even opposite conclusions.* *10 If your opponent answers all your questions negatively and refuses to grant you any points, ask him or her to concede the opposite of your premises.* This may confuse the opponent as to which point you actually seek him to concede. *11 If the opponent grants you the truth of some of your premises, refrain from asking him or her to agree to your conclusion.* Later, introduce your conclusions as a settled and admitted fact. Your opponent and others in attendance may come to believe that your conclusion was admitted. *12 If the argument turns upon general ideas with no particular names, you must use language or a metaphor that is favorable to your proposition.* Example: What an impartial person would call "public worship" or a "system of religion" is described by an adherent as "piety" or "godliness" and by an opponent as "bigotry" or "superstition." In other words, insert what you intend to prove into the definition of the idea. *13 To make your opponent accept a proposition, you must give him an opposite, counter-proposition as well.* If the contrast is glaring, the opponent will accept your proposition to avoid being paradoxical. Example: If you want him to admit that a boy must to everything that his father tells him to do, ask him, "whether in all things we must obey or disobey our parents." Or , if a thing is said to occur "often" you are to understand few or many times, the opponent will say "many." It is as though you were to put gray next to black and call it white; or gray next to white and call it black. *14 Try to bluff your opponent.* If he or she has answered several of your question without the answers turning out in favor of your conclusion, advance your conclusion triumphantly, even if it does not follow. If your opponent is shy or stupid, and you yourself possess a great deal of impudence and a good voice, the technique may succeed. *15 If you wish to advance a proposition that is difficult to prove, put it aside for the moment.* Instead, submit for your opponent's acceptance or rejection some true proposition, as though you wished to draw your proof from it. Should the opponent reject it because he suspects a trick, you can obtain your triumph by showing how absurd the opponent is to reject an obviously true proposition. Should the opponent accept it, you now have reason on your side for the moment. You can either try to prove your original proposition, as in #14, maintain that your original proposition is proved by what your opponent accepted. For this an extreme degree of impudence is required, but experience shows cases of it succeeding. *16 When your opponent puts forth a proposition, find it inconsistent with his or her other statements, beliefs, actions or lack of action.* Example: Should your opponent defend suicide, you may at once exclaim, "Why don't you hang yourself?" Should the opponent maintain that his city is an unpleasant place to live, you may say, "Why don't you leave on the first plane?" *17 If your opponent presses you with a counter-proof, you will often be able to save yourself by advancing some subtle distinction.* Try to find a second meaning or an ambiguous sense for your opponent's idea. *18 If your opponent has taken up a line of argument that will end in your defeat, you must not allow him to carry it to its conclusion.* Interrupt the dispute, break it off altogether, or lead the opponent to a different subject. *19 Should your opponent expressly challenge you to produce any objection to some definite point in his argument, and you have nothing to say, try to make the argument less specific.* Example: If you are asked why a particular hypothesis cannot be accepted, you may speak of the fallibility of human knowledge, and give various illustrations of it. *20 If your opponent has admitted to all or most of your premises, do not ask him or her directly to accept your conclusion.* Rather, draw the conclusion yourself as if it too had been admitted. *21 When your opponent uses an argument that is superficial and you see the falsehood, you can refute it by setting forth its superficial character.* But it is better to meet the opponent with a counter-argument that is just as superficial, and so dispose of him. For it is with victory that you are concerned, not with truth. Example: If the opponent appeals to prejudice, emotion or attacks you personally, return the attack in the same manner. *22 If your opponent asks you to admit something from which the point in dispute will immediately follow, you must refuse to do so, declaring that it begs the question.* *23 Contradiction and contention irritate a person into exaggerating their statements.* By contradicting your opponent you may drive him into extending the statement beyond its natural limit. When you then contradict the exaggerated form of it, you look as though you had refuted the original statement. Contrarily, if your opponent tries to extend your own statement further than your intended, redefine your statement's limits and say, "That is what I said, no more." *24 State a false syllogism.* Your opponent makes a proposition, and by false inference and distortion of his ideas you force from the proposition other propositions that are not intended and that appear absurd. It then appears that opponent's proposition gave rise to these inconsistencies, and so appears to be indirectly refuted. *25 If your opponent is making a generalization, find an instance to the contrary.* Only one valid contradiction is needed to overthrow the opponent's proposition. Example: "All ruminants are horned," is a generalization that may be upset by the single instance of the camel. *26 A brilliant move is to turn the tables and use your opponent's arguments against himself.* Example: Your opponent declares: "so and so is a child, you must make an allowance for him." You retort, "Just because he is a child, I must correct him; otherwise he will persist in his bad habits." *27 Should your opponent surprise you by becoming particularly angry at an argument, you must urge it with all the more zeal.* No only will this make your opponent angry, but it will appear that you have put your finger on the weak side of his case, and your opponent is more open to attack on this point than you expected. *28 When the audience consists of individuals (or a person) who is not an expert on a subject, you make an invalid objection to your opponent who seems to be defeated in the eyes of the audience.* This strategy is particularly effective if your objection makes your opponent look ridiculous or if the audience laughs. If your opponent must make a long, winded and complicated explanation to correct you, the audience will not be disposed to listen to him. *29 If you find that you are being beaten, you can create a diversion--that is, you can suddenly begin to talk of something else, as though it had a bearing on the matter in dispute.* This may be done without presumption if the diversion has some general bearing on the matter. *30 Make an appeal to authority rather than reason.* If your opponent respects an authority or an expert, quote that authority to further your case. If needed, quote what the authority said in some other sense or circumstance. Authorities that your opponent fails to understand are those which he generally admires the most. You may also, should it be necessary, not only twist your authorities, but actually falsify them, or quote something that you have entirely invented yourself. *31 If you know that you have no reply to the arguments that your opponent advances, you by a fine stroke of irony declare yourself to be an incompetent judge.* Example: "What you say passes my poor powers of comprehension; it may well be all very true, but I can't understand it, and I refrain from any expression of opinion on it." In this way you insinuate to the audience, with whom you are in good repute, that what your opponent says is nonsense. This technique may be used only when you are quite sure that the audience thinks much better of you than your opponent. *32 A quick way of getting rid of an opponent's assertion, or of throwing suspicion on it, is by putting it into some odious category.* Example: You can say, "That is fascism" or "Atheism" or "Superstition." In making an objection of this kind you take for granted 1)That the assertion or question is identical with, or at least contained in, the category cited; and 2)The system referred to has been entirely refuted by the current audience. *33 You admit your opponent's premises but deny the conclusion.* Example: "That's all very well in theory, but it won't work in practice." *34 When you state a question or an argument, and your opponent gives you no direct answer, or evades it with a counter question, or tries to change the subject, it is sure sign you have touched a weak spot, sometimes without intending to do so.* You have, as it were, reduced your opponent to silence. You must, therefore, urge the point all the more, and not let your opponent evade it, even when you do not know where the weakness that you have hit upon really lies. *35 Instead of working on an opponent's intellect or the rigor of his arguments, work on his motive.* If you success in making your opponent's opinion, should it prove true, seem distinctly prejudicial to his own interest, he will drop it immediately. Example: A clergyman is defending some philosophical dogma. You show him that his proposition contradicts a fundamental doctrine of his church. He will abandon the argument. *36 You may also puzzle and bewilder your opponent by mere bombast.* If your opponent is weak or does not wish to appear as if he has no idea what your are talking about, you can easily impose upon him some argument that sounds very deep or learned, or that sounds indisputable. *37 Should your opponent be in the right but, luckily for you, choose a faulty proof, you can easily refute it and then claim that you have refuted the whole position.* This is the way in which bad advocates lose good cases. If no accurate proof occurs to your opponent, you have won the day. *38 Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand.* In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. This is a very popular technique, because it takes so little skill to put it into effect. -- Faiz From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 17:07:18 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (ysaeed) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Can we apologize to partition victims Message-ID: <393399.71172.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Apology Petition http://www.indiapakistanpeace.org/petition_2007.html Dear Victims of the Partition-related Violence in South Asia: The mass murder, rape, pillage and suffering that accompanied the partition of British India in 1947, have left deep scars on the psyche of the people of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, the former East Pakistan. Tens of thousands were murdered, raped, and maimed, and millions were displaced in an immense human tragedy, that continues to poison our discourse, and feed mutual suspicions and hatreds. Therefore, we, the members of the Association for Communal Harmony in Asia (ACHA), and others, who have signed below, believe that the time has come for all of us jointly to condemn, without distinction, the insane orgy of violence and intimidation that accompanied the great human divide of 1947. On the 60th anniversary of the Independence of India and Pakistan, we recall that dark chapter in our history so as to ensure that these tragedies will not be forgotten, or repeated. We hope that coming generations will learn from this man-made calamity, and turn away from divisions based on religion, ethnicity, language, national origin, caste, or creed. Taking lessons from history, we undertake to shun the political use of religion and communalism. We regret that our forebears, the colonial British administration, and the successor governments did not prevent the tragedy. They also failed to punish the perpetrators, and apologize to you and your families. In the spirit of harmony and goodwill among the people of South Asia, and to help build a new South Asian present and future, we grieve for and with you. We offer our deepest sympathies and most solemn regrets to you and your families. We are sorry! ======================= Kindly sign this petition if you think you should apologize http://www.indiapakistanpeace.org/petition_2007.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 20:05:07 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:35:07 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Use Jihadis to resolve Kashmir issue & Jihad against USA, says Pak Govt., offic In-Reply-To: <211798.67938.qm@web57215.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0708121328j56191d29rd9a8623e02f21d38@mail.gmail.com> <211798.67938.qm@web57215.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708200735n3fa3c791g30d7dec0ae6b67ee@mail.gmail.com> kshmendra: 1 iqbal pundit I think you need to read my comment better. i dont see a point of disagreement. 2 Kashmiri History and Islam Please offer a url, a reference. 3 hindustani anthems I am heartened to see the islamist / muslim, hindutva / indian distinctions you are implying altough details i am sure will get fuzzy. 4 hamara iqbal you have my comments re your narrow reading. the syncretist metaphors in tarana-i-hind may usefully be compared with tarana-i-milli which uses islamic metaphors / references such as tauheed muslim khuda etc. i think thats good enough. 5 hate i fail to see the relevance of this topic. sounds like slippage. 6. jihadis i agree. they are not done with iraq and afghanistan just yet. neither is the patriotic indian army done kashmir or manipur. afraid i cant argue on this line much further. best From ysikand at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 20:07:47 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:07:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Interview: Maulana Wahiduddin Khan on Intra-Muslim Sectarian Dialogue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48097acc0708200737y76f3ef27o1a0a114f1f081369@mail.gmail.com> Based in New Delhi, Maulana Wahiduddin Khan is a noted Islamic scholar. In this interview with Yoginder Sikand, he talks about the urgent need to promote dialogue and ecumenism between the different Muslim sects. Q: Although the Quran stresses Muslim unity, Muslims are divided into numerous sects, and some of them see the other sects as enemies. How do you account for this phenomenon of intense sectarianism and the fact that, unlike in the Christian case, there is really no Muslim ecumenical movement to bring the ulema of the different sects on a common platform for serious dialogue? A: I think this has much to do with the lack of modern education among Muslims. As a result of the Renaissance in Europe, modern scientific thought had a major impact on religious thought there, although there was also fierce conflict between the Church and scientists. But the scientific spirit promoted tolerance in matters of religion, and because of this Christians, then largely based in Europe where the scientific revolution occurred, were also inclined towards more tolerance in matters of inter-sectarian relations. This had to do with the scientific revolution in Europe and not with Christianity as such. The serious lack of modern education and the scientific spirit among large sections of the Muslim community gives space to professional clerics to exercise their influence by seeking to establish the veracity of their own sects by denouncing the other Muslim sects, instead of seeking to build bridges with them. Rather than reaching out to them, to seek to understand them or dialogue with them, their approach is to brand them at once as 'enemies', 'infidels' and as allegedly having strayed from the path of Islam. Maulvis of different sects hurl fatwas against the other sects, denouncing them in harsh terms. However, I feel that it is only through serious and constructive dialogue that you can reach out to other groups. If you feel these groups may not be in accordance with your understanding of Islam, you must seek to dialogue with them. Denouncing them will only further promote conflict. Q: Are you aware of any efforts being made today to promote inter-sectarian dialogue and unity among the ulema of the different Muslim sects? A: Some efforts have been made in recent years in this regard. However, their approach has been basically that of seeking to end differences and thereby promote unity. This, however, can never work. On the other hand, Christians associated with the ecumenical movement tolerate intra-Christian differences but seek to promote unity despite these differences. They agree to disagree. But there is no such tradition among the Muslim ulema. They must understand that unity cannot be had by trying to destroy differences. We should learn to tolerate, not eliminate, differences and in that way the different sects can indeed come closer. Q: What do you see as the minimum common basis on which intra-Muslim dialogue between the different sects can be promoted? A: Unity should have a basis, and I think there are no differences among the ulema of the different sects on the basics of Islam, which can serve as the basis of dialogue. All recognized Muslim sects, Shias as well as Sunnis, as well as the various groups within these two larger categories, believe in Allah, the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad. This is the basis for their unity. The four major Sunni schools of jurisprudence and the main Shia school, the Jafari school of the Twelver Imami (Ithnashari) Shias, are all based on the Quran and Hadith, although they differ are on what I call 'non-basic' issues. There will always be this disagreement on the 'non-basics' so instead of trying to eliminate them, we should learn to accept them and despite these seek to build unity on the foundation provided by the 'basics'. Q: Does it follow from your argument that those who are engaged in promoting inter-sectarian rivalry take the 'non-basic' as the 'basic'? A: Exactly. Take, for instance, the case of the conflict between the Salafis and the Hanafis, both of who are Sunnis. Today, in India, many Salafis and Hanafis see themselves as rivals of each other. But their essential difference relates to a non-basic matter of some postures during prayer and whether to utter the word ameen loudly or silently. And then there are differences between them as to whether and how the opening verse of the Qur'an should be recited by a worshipper praying behind an imam. Now, these are trivial differences, but sectarian maulvis have sought to make a mountain of this molehill and brand sects who differ with them on such issues as deviant. Many such differences and disputes have long historical roots that got back to the period when the classical compendia of Hadith, reports attributed to the Prophet Muhammad, began being put together. These reports number in the tens of thousands. On several issues these reports differ from each other. One reason for this was that the companions of the Prophet, who are said to have first narrated these reports, spent varying periods of time in his company. Consequently, they reported what they had personally experienced or seen. So, one companion said that he saw the Prophet uttering the word ameen loudly in the course of his prayers, while another companion said that he saw the Prophet uttering that word silently. Or, one said that he saw the Prophet placing his hands on his stomach while praying while another said he saw that he had placed them on his chest. This was because companions were with the Prophet on different occasions and their opinions are, therefore, equally valid. These are differences on relatively minor or what are called in Arabic furui issues, but some present-day sects take them as major and use these to denounce other sects, who have different opinions on these issues, as 'un-Islamic. This is really unfortunate and betrays an extreme form of intolerance which has no sanction in Islam. Q: How did the classical Muslim scholars approach this issue of these minor differences in the Hadith reports? A: Over time, two broad responses emerged to this question. One was that which was represented by experts in Hadith, the muhaddithun. The other was that which was articulated by specialists in Islamic jurisprudence or fiqh, the fuqaha. The first sought to reconcile these differences in a spirit of tolerance. This was in line with the Hadith report wherein the Prophet is said to have declared that his companions were like stars and that he who follows them would be guided. This represented an acceptance of diverse opinions, or what is called tawassa in Arabic, in what appear to be conflicting Hadith reports that are traced through different companions. This reflected an understanding that on these relatively minor issues diversity must be tolerated. There was no difference between the companions on major or 'non-basic issues, or what is called in Islamic legal parlance, usuli issues. Even the Shias and the Sunnis are united on these basic issues, such as belief in one God, in the Quran, the Day of Judgment, prayer, the pilgrimage to Makkah and so on. So, the position of the muhaddithun was like that of someone who enters a room and finds people sitting, and accepts that they are, in that position, engaged in the same act, although their sitting postures maybe different. On the other hand, many fuqaha took a different approach. They argued that there is no division in truth, and that there can be only one true opinion on any matter attributed to the Prophet. So, they argued, in contrast to the muhaddithun, that either the report which says that the Prophet uttered the word ameen in prayer loudly is true or the other tradition that says he uttered it silently is true, and that both cannot be true and valid at the same time. But faced with conflicting Hadith reports that are traced back to different companions of the Prophet, they declared some reports to be true and others to be weak or false. It is like someone demanding that everyone present in a room sit exactly in the same posture. This approach helped solidify sectarian differences, as each sect sought to claim that its own approach to the Hadith was right and that of the others was wrong. And in the process, some fuqaha sought to deny some Hadith just because the school of jurisprudence which they followed had different opinions on issues that these Hadith reports referred to. For instance, the noted Deobandi scholar Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri argued that several Hadith reports in the collection known as Sahih Bukhari may not be fully authentic just because they differ from the Hanafi position on some matters. The hardcore Wahhabis adopt a similarly rigid position and condemn other schools of Islamic jurisprudence as deviant. This is a form of extremism or what is called ghulu in Arabic. There is a Hadith report that warns Muslims not to take to ghulu in matters of religion because earlier communities met with a dismal fate precisely because of this. Perhaps this is because extremism based on such trivial differences on non-basic issues leads inevitably to sectarian strife and conflict. If we had followed the approach that the muhaddithun had advocated by accepting the legitimacy of diversity of opinions among Muslims on non-basic issues perhaps we would not have faced this problem. I think one way out of the sectarian mess is to adopt the approach of the muhaddithun. All Muslim sects agree on the basics of Islam, and on non-basic issues we should agree to disagree. Q: Some ulema might argue that there is no point in seeking to bring the different Muslim sects closer. To justify this argument reference is often made to a Hadith report which claims that the Prophet declared that after his death his community would be divided into 73 sects, and that only one sect, called the firqa al-najiya in Arabic, would attain salvation. This sect would be that which follows the path of the Prophet and his companions. Each sect claims to be that one chosen firqa al-najiya, implying, thereby, that the other sects are by definition deviant or false. How do you look at this Hadith report and the way it is sometimes used to legitimize sectarian conflict? A: This Hadith report is in the form of a prediction, not a commandment that Muslims must be divided into several sects. Now, there is a big fallacy that surrounds popular perceptions of this report, in that it does not actually talk about the firqa al-najiya. It does not refer to any particular chosen sect. What the Prophet was referring to here were individuals who follow his path and that of his companions, who he said would be saved. He was not referring to a particular sect. This obviously means that those who are saved could belong to different sects, provided they follow the Prophet and his companions. This is because, as the Quran says, God will decide the fate of people after their death based on their own actions as individuals. If we look at this Hadith in this way, it can be used as a means to promote inter-sectarian harmony, rather than to promote conflict, as it often is. There is another point concerning this Hadith report that I want to talk about. This relates to what is meant when the Prophet says that those who follow his practice and that of his companions will be saved. Some people take this in a very narrow, literalist sense, and say that following the Prophet's practice means insisting on using a tooth-stick, as the Prophet did, or to adopt Arab dress and so on. Actually, I think what is actually meant here is essentially the ethical and moral model of the Prophet and his companions. Basic to this ethical model is the principle of tolerance in matters that are not basic to the faith but which do not at the same time impinge on the basics of the faith. This tolerance on non-basic issues among Muslims is reflected in the lives of the Prophet and his companions, and this is something that the different Muslim sects need to realize. Once a companion of the Prophet recited some words of praise to God aloud while in prayer in addition to those that are normally recited by Muslims in their prayers. The Prophet heard this but did not get angry. A similar instance is that of the response of the Caliph Umar to the question of reciting the taraweeh prayers during Ramadan, which the Prophet's companions, including Hazrat Umar himself, did not recite. One day Hazrat Umar came to a mosque and found people saying the taraweeh prayer. He did not join them in this, but nor did he scold them. Instead, he remarked that this was a 'good innovation'. The se two instances suggest that when the above-mentioned Hadith talks about the need for us to emulate the model of the Prophet and his companions, it also exhorts us to accept differences among the Muslim sects on non-basic issues. This is also the only way to promote inter-sectarian unity. Q: If such minor differences lie behind the genesis of the different Muslim sects, how did these sects become so solidified over time? A: Minor differences over one small issue gradually lead to further differences, owing to a host of factors, including political motives and vested interests. Take the case of the Shia-Sunni divide. In its origins, it had nothing to do with any differences over the basics of Islam. It was entirely a political issue as to who should lead the Muslim community after the demise of the Prophet. Later, in order to justify these differences some religious beliefs and claims were developed so that the two political groups eventually emerged as two different sects. Later, within the broader Shia and Sunni fold new sects emerged, essentially over succession to the post of Imam in the case of the Shias or over being the rightful representative of the Prophet's Sunnah, in the Sunni case, and religious doctrines were marshaled to justify these rival claims. Q: In several madrasas students are taught to despise and counter other Muslim sects, based on the assumption that their own sect alone is true. This is also reflected in the polemical sectarian literature produced by numerous ulema associated with madrasas. How do you see this problem? A: I think this has, in large measure, to do with the vested interests of some ulema who thrive on sectarian controversy in order to proclaim themselves as 'representatives' of Islam and Muslims. By condemning other sects they seek to prove that their sect alone is correct, that they alone have the Truth with a capital 'T'. And it also has to do with a certain sort of inertia and hostility to change. Teachers in many madrasas have been taught, from the beginning of their careers, to teach such polemical, sectarian works, and so if you ask them to replace these by books that talk of inter-sectarian dialogue, they might well refuse, not just because they may not agree with the need for dialogue or because they might oppose acceptance of other sects but also because they are trained only in teaching a particular set of books and no other. And if they are forced to teach entirely new books they might find themselves unemployed. Q: It is also argued that forces inimical to Muslims and Islam have also played a crucial role in promoting inter-sectarian strife among Muslims, such as, for instance, America's consistent attempt to set Sunnis and Shias against each other in Iraq. What do you have to say about this? A: Competition is part of God's plan. There has always been and shall always be clash of interests and egos. People and nations want to dominate others. This is inevitable, given the freedom to choose between right and wrong that God has given us. Others may seek to divide you, but the point is that you should develop the capacity to prevent others from doing so. So, yes, the United States is seeking to inflame sectarian conflicts in Iraq, but we Muslims must learn how not to fall into this trap. We must learn to dialogue with and accept the various Muslim sects so that the efforts of others to divide us do not succeed. God says in the Holy Quran (3:120) that the conspiracies of others cannot cause any harm to those who are steadfast and do right, because God is aware of all that they do. Yoginder Sikand works with the Centre for Jawaharlal Nehru Studies, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi. -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping From delhifilmarchive at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 20:26:23 2007 From: delhifilmarchive at gmail.com (Delhi Film Archive [DFA]) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:26:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA: 17] DFA Screening - Black Pamphlets Message-ID: <5a4334630708200756o46d4abd7rf1c10eb781ba64d7@mail.gmail.com> Delhi Film Archive and Ramjas College present a season of documentaries. Every third thursday of the month, a film that opens a new world. We start this regular screening programme with a film from close home. "Black Pamphlets" Duration: 84 minutes A film By Nitin K 23 August 2007, 1:15pm, at Seminar Room, Ramjas College, Delhi University Black Pamphlets takes you into the heart of the Delhi University Students Union Election process. The film is an insiders view of the candidates, strategies, resources and the politics that goes into the making of probably the biggest student election of the country. But beyond that the film through its images of the everyday in the university becomes an opportunity for students from diverse backgrounds to share with the film maker their own understanding of democratic practices, their futures and their today. VISIT OUR WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org JOIN OUR MAILING LIST OF FILM SCREENINGS: email: delhifilmarchive-subscribe at googlegroups.com CONTACT US: delhifilmarchive at gmail.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive/ Visit our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org See the LIST OF FILMS in the Archive: http://www.delhifilmarchive.org/archive.html -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From ysikand at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 23:42:06 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:42:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deoband muftis criticize fatwa against Taslima Nasreen Message-ID: <48097acc0708201112j53aa10e6pe3cbb36cad515a63@mail.gmail.com> Deoband muftis criticize fatwa against Taslima Nasreen PDF Print E-mail User Rating: / 1 PoorBest By Khabrein Staff Reporter, New Delhi, August 20: Clerics at world renowned seminary Darul Uloom Deoband (waqf) have denounced fatwa against controversial Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen saying that the fatwa in itself was illegal. Prominent muftis of the madrasa Maulana Khursheed Alam, Asst. rector of the seminary Mufti Ehsan Qasmi, Mufti Muhammad Arif and Maulana Abdullah Jawed said that in a democratic and secular country like India a fatwa like the one that sought beheading of Taslima Nasreen was not based on a sharia law. A cleric in Kolkata had issued a fatwa or a death warrant Friday against Taslima Nasreen if she did no leave India. "Anybody eliminating her would be given Rs 100,000 and unlimited rewards if she does not leave the country immediately. She has insulted Islam and continued to create problem in this country," said Syed Noor-ur-Rehman Barkati, the shahi imam of Tippu Sultan Mosque in Kolkata. He went on to say that "We are forced to issue such a warrant because the government is not making use of the constitutional provisions and driving her out of the country". "She should leave within a month," he said after the meeting that was attended by some of the major Muslim organisations of India, including All India Sunni Ulema Board and representatives from Hyderabad where she was attacked. The clerics at Deoband have said that if anyone was averse to the idea of Taslima Nasreen living in the country the best course would be to approach a court in this regard. They said that Barkati's fatwa went against the ethos of Islam and also the law of the land. In the meantime the government has extended Taslima Nasreen's visa for another six month. The disgraced Bangladeshi author has been living in exile for 12 years and currently holds a European Union passport issued by the Swedish government — as her Bangladeshi passport stands invalid Comments Add New Search RSS -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Das Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Das is awake and weeping From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 01:16:53 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:46:53 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708201246u1e660ca7s7cdff80901d6dce@mail.gmail.com> References: <532989.98249.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0708201246u1e660ca7s7cdff80901d6dce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708201246n3b8a408dr8296ff9a6c11131e@mail.gmail.com> care to share the url ? On 8/17/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: > Mahmood Bhai, > I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May I > ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is priceless > work and it should be archived. > regards > Rahul > --- mahmood farooqui > wrote: > > From tapasrayx at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 06:24:34 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:24:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <493896.28486.qm@web8404.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <493896.28486.qm@web8404.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CA37CA.7050802@gmail.com> There also are laws specific to Hindus - at least for property and marriage. Would all Hindus be willing to give these up and embrace a uniform civil code? TR S.Fatima wrote: > And cultural diversity demands that not everyone is forced to live > the same way, with a uniform culture and laws. If I > stayed back in India, I did so because I wanted to > live in a multicutural country. Now if I am asked to > live under conditions of uniformity, then what's the > point of my not migrating to Pakistan. If my right to > live with my culture is denied, then I might as well > leave India. But where else can I go - there is no > other place in the world that I can call home. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 10:10:26 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708201246n3b8a408dr8296ff9a6c11131e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <549961.57784.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The site is dastangoi.blogspot.com The video is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbK4KgUVyk --- yasir ~ wrote: > care to share the url ? > > On 8/17/07, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > Mahmood Bhai, > > I came across one of your dastaans on youtube.May > I > > ask, when is the dvd coming out?:)This is > priceless > > work and it should be archived. > > regards > > Rahul > > --- mahmood farooqui > > wrote: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From berkeleysanjay at planet-save.com Tue Aug 21 10:26:07 2007 From: berkeleysanjay at planet-save.com (berkeleysanjay) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:56:07 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Online petition - please read and feel free to sign Message-ID: http://www.petitiononline.com/Taslima1/petition.html thanks Berkeley ----------- Save Rainforest for Free - Sign up for a Free PlanetSave.com Email Account at http://www.planet-save.com From abshi at vsnl.com Tue Aug 21 15:24:21 2007 From: abshi at vsnl.com (Shilpa phadke) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:54:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Urban age award In-Reply-To: <11419.anindya.1185654585.squirrel@tern.riseup.net> Message-ID: <003501c7e3d9$403e6db0$b488050a@heaven> The Deutsche Bank Urban Age Award is an initiative associated with the Urban Age project, an international investigation of cities organized by the London School of Economics and Political Science and Deutsche Bank's Alfred Herrhausen Society. The award will be given to projects and initiatives that improve the physical conditions of their communities and the lives of their residents. An independent jury drawn from an international community of urban leaders, designers, business, media and civic actors will evaluate all submissions and determine the winner of the $100,000 prize. The deadline for submissions is 30 September, 2007. Any project that falls under the following categories will be considered for the award: . Housing and shelter . Workplaces . Transport infrastructure . Public space . Sanitation and Health . Education . Culture . Other relevant urban regeneration initiatives For further details please visit the website www.urban-age.net The award is administered by the Deutsche Bank's Alfred Herrhausen Society in association with the Urban Age project. If you have any questions, please e-mail dbua.award at db.com. From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 13:59:44 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:29:44 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Partition Dastans-at the IHC 14 August In-Reply-To: <549961.57784.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0708201246n3b8a408dr8296ff9a6c11131e@mail.gmail.com> <549961.57784.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0708210129i1cfaf0a6le4bd48b58f48ce77@mail.gmail.com> thanks rahul, tho was hoping for a slightly longer clip. best On 8/20/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: > The site is dastangoi.blogspot.com > The video is > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbK4KgUVyk > > From rgdj12 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 17:02:57 2007 From: rgdj12 at yahoo.com (roger das) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <507142.92583.qm@web38908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Vedavati, whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians sympathy? As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur happens time and again. you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. Think and then say! Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000 Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions. I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik? To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim? Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars ) Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.) Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register The idiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! _________________________________________________________________ Catch the cricket action with MSN! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From surya_rajan21 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 19:15:15 2007 From: surya_rajan21 at yahoo.com (surya upadhyay) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Guru on the Air: I-Fellowship Posting Message-ID: <678179.36297.qm@web32115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All, Please read the posting. Sorry in advance, for any spelling mistake and fragmentation of sentence. This is being done from a cyber cafe. The project has tried to get into the production of electronic material by the gurus organisation. The practice started with some other necessity has turned into an instrument of dissemination and production of pictures of the revered gurus of the devotees. In the beginning, around early 70's, people started gathering around the guru. Few of them came from outside of Ahmedabad. According to them, they missed his sermons when they were back. Of this kind, I met a devotees who belongs to Godhara. He came every month to the Ashram in Ahmedabad. He started recording the sermons and preachings of the guru with the aim that he would listen to them at his home. He brought his own two-in-one (old model of Murphy/ Philips) and recorded the sermons. There was no permanent large group of people who were living in the ashram. Infact, untill mid 70s there were only two-three permanent resident devotees who were living with the guru in his ashram. The ashram started recording sermons only after 175. The first audio was recorded in January, 1976. This was also done on the simple two-in-one recording system. The voice was recorded on simple Umatic records. Till early 80s, there was no one who was expert in these kinds of activities in the organisation. However, the initial recording were not done with the purpose of dissemination of the sermons rather it was the reverence of the devotees who were recording for there own purpose. The first public audio that brought out by the ashram was "Mai Kaun Hoon" (Who I am?). Even today this is the largest selling cassette. The ashram did not had any proper organisation. Even, the devotees lacked photograph of their guru. This was initiated by one of this oldest devotees. He brought a video camera from abroad. He said," At that time, rent of video camera was very high. The owner charged around Rs. 1000/- for one day. So I thought to purchase and in that we could save the money of the ashram and then only I brought a video camera". However, he purchased it for his son's photgraphy studio but it was used for recording the sermons. Moreover, with that they started recording on Betacam amd VHS were produced. But the production was high so it was not easy for every one to purchase a copy of her/his own. Also, players were also very costly. This cost leded restriction on the dissemination of video cassettes proved a tool in gathering people outside of the ashram. Whosoever had the player, they took video cassette on rent from the ashram to their place and organised video sermon at their house. Eventually, this became a tool in the popularity of the guru. This was in practise atleast till 1995 in some areas or in some it scrolled upto 2000. From 1994, his sermons were broadcasted by ATN channel. This also started because one of the prdouction/ broadcasting Managers of the ATN was a devotee of Asaram Bapu. Later, his from December 1994 Zee TV also started telecasting his morning sermons. Then, it was also started by Sony TV. It was telcast of Sony TV that gave a large audience and later devotees. The sermons that were/are telecasted by these TV channels are only those recordings that were and are recorded by the ashram using their simple recording methods.Till 1997-98, the ashram had simple voice mixer, ampliphier etc. The quality could be known fron the external noise in all the older recordings. The first VHS recording was done in 1983. From 2001 onwards, the ashram has started using very sophesticated and highly advanced recording manchines. They improved in their quality boyh in picture as well as voice of the records. Now they are recording it digitally. However, with the advent of cheaper electonic items such as VCD-MP3 player and also advent of high graded convertibles, it has become easy for the devotees to get their own copy of the sermons. The oragnisation record each and every moment of the sermon programme. The recording of a session are avaiavle for sale after editing the recording after the end of session. They have a very high quality and fast speed duplicaters. It produces 7 CDs in just 2 mins. Till now, they have almost 13,500 hours or audio-video record. But most of the records remains in the studio. These records are later converted into columns of their magazine called Rishi Prasad. This is just the presentation of the data collected from the field. I have not anlaysed it. The next posting will cover that section. Wishes Surya Prakash I-Fellow, Sarai '07 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting From luigi at artificialia.com Tue Aug 21 18:03:47 2007 From: luigi at artificialia.com (Luigi Pagliarini) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:33:47 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Robots@Play Event Message-ID: <20070821123356.30A9987DC2@msec5.sdu.dk> Dears, allow me to inform you of two significant events that will take place during the Robots at Play Festival (www.robotsatplay.dk): the Playful Robotic Art conference: http://www.robotsatplay.dk/events/conference.html the robo[art] section: http://www.robotsatplay.dk/dokumenter/CatalogueRoboArt.pdf Regards, Luigi Pagliarini From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 02:21:09 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:51:09 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] m iqbal Message-ID: <5af37bb0708211351g6dca5ac5g6a5ed40350b0bfe8@mail.gmail.com> kshemendra & rashneek : since you both seem to have some regard for iqbal, i'm curious to know how you have studied him. Is it in Urdu, or its transcription in devanagri or english, and the persian ? Is this required reading of some sort or individual initiative? altho i may incline towards ghalibs poetry and admire iqbals prose more, I will be grateful if you say something about this. best yasir From monica at sarai.net Wed Aug 22 03:51:20 2007 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:51:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Thoughts on Photographing Bombay's Cinema Halls In-Reply-To: <379173b10708170921o6c5af5a8h9790840cfd6b9aee@mail.gmail.com> References: <379173b10708170921o6c5af5a8h9790840cfd6b9aee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8EABE792-613E-40F3-A0C6-509F28A7D0A8@sarai.net> Hi Zubin Looking at your images, and how you are looking at the space of the cinema, i was reminded of the work of Hiroshi Sugimoto (who has been called a conceptualist photographer). His beautiful black and white images in cinema halls are engineered around the concept of time. The images have been exposed for the entire duration of a film screening. http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/ assets/img/data/2239/bild.jpg for an example best M Monica Narula Raqs Sarai-CSDS 29 Rajpur Road Delhi 110 054 www.raqsmediacollective.net www.sarai.net On 17-Aug-07, at 9:51 PM, Zubin Pastakia wrote: > Hello, > > This is my fifth post to the Reader-List related to my fellowship > project "A Photographic Study of Bombay's Cinema Halls as a Cultural > Experience of Space." > > For this month's post, I thought I would change things up a bit and > write about the nature of "documentation" in the photographic sense. I > have consciously avoided the term documentation as I find it > problematic - I'd prefer to call it a study of or a meditation on > cinema halls in Bombay. > > As a photographer, I am motivated to photograph - to "record" – not > only due to aesthetics (colour, shape, pattern, light etc.) but also > because recording the subject/object would move my overall narrative > forward. The problem arises when these latter subjects/objects are > difficult to represent photographically, as they fail on all of the > above-mentioned aesthetic criteria. > > I am not talking about photographing something "ugly" per se, as I do > not believe that photographs need to be "pretty"; it is more a case of > the scene lacking the necessary criteria to be able to convey meaning > in the photographic form. Is it then worth photographing? > > I constantly come across this tension in my cinema hall work. It is > hard to keep the camera "democratic" at all times. I justify this by > reminding myself that photography is not an exact science but a point > of view - adding another piece to the puzzle. As the late John > Szarkowski wrote, the goal of photography/art "is not to make > something factually impeccable, but seamlessly persuasive." > > *** > > Although this is not a project that is purely serial in nature - where > each individual photograph loses its unique aura and content, ala Ed > Ruscha in his "Nine Swimming Pools and a Broken Glass" - the very fact > that I am photographing only cinema halls means that it is a serial > project if we look at each hall as a set. > > At first, I often felt displeased that I was slipping into a formula > in photographing the halls. I was always looking for certain things. > This used to bother me – I was becoming formulaic. > > However, of late I have found that it is not necessarily a bad thing > to look for the same things in different halls. Eventually, when I > take stock of all the photographs in my project, I feel that I will be > able to see how similar and yet different these spaces are. > > Photographs tell us what things look like. > > The project site is at: > > http://peripheralvision.blogspot.com > > Best, > > Zubin > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From prithu7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 11:01:48 2007 From: prithu7 at hotmail.com (pritham k chakravarthy) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:01:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Urban Sabha Drama -August Message-ID: Urban Sabha Drama August 2007 The Other Side of Chennai Drama While there were three Sabha Drama Festivals during summer, July and August saw two very different kinds of theatre performances. Surprisingly both these festivals were frequented by prominent sabha members. The first was an all day long Pammal Sambanda Mudaliyar Festival on July 17th at Top Storey, Alliance Fran�se, Chennai. The day was devoted to the passage Tamil theatre had taken since Pammal’s days to contemporary times. Beginning with an exhaustive seminar on Pammal, it recalled the passion Chennai had for theatre itself and forms f theatre that had been experimented since then. The surprise element was the staging of a full length play scripted by Pammal Sangeetha Payithiyam [Mad for Music] by Theatre Lab. Strangely with Pammal’s strict codes of what theatre should or should not address this is a play he never permitted his own group Suguna Vilas Sabha to stage as this was merely entertainment. This was followed with Nadhi Ariyathu [The River Does Not Know] a contemporary monologue scripted by S. Ramakrishnan and performed by the same group. While the former play was received enthusiastically by the younger audience even though the play was over five decades old the later went lackluster because of the dense text. The second was a ten-day long festival, The Hindu Metro Theatre Fest, from August 2nd-12th at Music Academy and Sivagami Pettachi Auditorium. Several shows had tickets pre-booked and the Chennai Chapter that had four plays was sold out. The crowd on the first day was so large that three school compound nearby were reserved for car parking. The audience was across age groups, theatrephiles and artivists. This is the third run for this festival and the launch show was Ratan Thiyam’s Nine Hills One Valley from Manipur. It was only five minutes before the show that the festival organizers chose to let the audience know that the play was going to be in Manipuri and we were to read up the one sheet synopsis given to follow the play that was 85 minutes in duration. Ironically, this is a festival announced for English plays and even had an incentive thrown in with The MetroPlus Playwright of the Year Award of Rs.1 lakh cash prize announced at the launch. Four international groups, of which two were professionals [Germany and Chicago], four national groups and four local in Chennai Chapter the festivals were indeed ambitiously conceived. If devotional books and music, south Indian food, and film music are sold in foyer of the sabha drama festival then this huge fare came with cappuccino and test car ride for Ford Logan. Were the prize afforded for the best playwright is a frugal 10,000/ for Tamil drama the amount here was big. But otherwise with kitsch performance, ringing mobiles, late entrance of audience, restless coughs, shallow scripts, same pattu saris and air-conditioned cars, this festival was no different. _________________________________________________________________ Tried the new MSN Messenger? It�s cool! Download now. http://messenger.msn.com/Download/Default.aspx?mkt=en-in From abhikauliya at googlemail.com Tue Aug 21 20:09:11 2007 From: abhikauliya at googlemail.com (Abhik Samanta) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:09:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fourth post Message-ID: <83253d810708210739q73e3f75dr5445936de848bc98@mail.gmail.com> This posting would attempt to explore the being that the textual commodities of the Gita Press constitute. This being although not explicitly nationalist is constituted in an affirmation that sees itself as a subject of the time sense of being in a nation. As mentioned often before, especially in the second posting the success that the press enjoyed since its founding in 1923 was the result of the efforts of two different types of engagement with the mission defined by the press, that of Hanumanprasad Poddar and Jayadayal Goyandaka. The commodity that was produced from this has to be understood in the landscape of national commodities that had been produced till then. I will take an example of an effort that predated the formation of the press and the emergence of nationalism as a phenomenon of political mobilization. The difference that I seek to outline lies in the way consumption of the message as a commodity is constituted. A commodity is a term I really use to understand issues of exchange and consumption as social acts which duplicate as nationalist acts. The example is that of Swami Ramtirth (1873-1906) who was known in his time as a man who gave extensive discourses on the nature of ideal existence as a nationalist. Born in Gujranwalla district in the Punjab he was a lecturer at Christian college at Lahore. After devoting himself to studying Vedanta in mathematical terms he followed Swami Vivekananda to USA on a preaching tour. The Swami did not undertake an enterprise of print like the founders of the Gita Press but gave a message in a form which I would like to use as characteristic of elite national configurations of his time. The similarity with Swami Vivekananda is striking in this regard. The text that is used here is called Bharatmata the first half of which is an enumeration of the qualities of an ideal citizen. The symbol blends in values of service and rationality through the composition of a code of ethics. It begins with the assertion that the nation is a realm beyond religion , an essential doorway to spiritual experience. 1. No man can feel one with the omnipotent God till he feels oneness with the nation energizing him in every pore. 2. See that all Bharatbarsha is embodied in every bharatbashi. Every son of Bharat must be ready to serve Bharatbarsha at all times. The outlining of the frame of the text introduces us to the role religion plays in forming the ethical parameters of the nation. Worship of God is equated with service to the nation through an array of ethical principles that are essential for a member of the nation. Daivi vidhan or verdict of the Gods is also used to justify these ethical parameters through a variety of reference points. In the prose form of the tract , which are interposed in a narrative located in contemporary forms of life. In the edict form which occurs first there are 108 points which orient the reader to national ethics. The effort is clearly to build a metaphor which serves as a language with which to address the body of the reader. The man who utters this metaphor is simultaneously distinguished from his utterance by placing himself in a relationship of service, which holds the same for his listeners, generating seva or service as part of the metaphor. In India almost every city, river , mountain stone or animal has an imaginary representation of God, it is not time yet to conceive of the entire motherland as deity and the smallest depiction of this deity could fill us up with devotion for the entire country. From abhikauliya at googlemail.com Tue Aug 21 20:12:47 2007 From: abhikauliya at googlemail.com (Abhik Samanta) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:12:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] fifth posting Message-ID: <83253d810708210742v618957e3m13ad5d787446a437@mail.gmail.com> 20. Half the people are starving. The other half is preoccupied with expenditure on luxuries, excess expenditure, false glory and superficial manners. The contradiction in the contemporary situation is the basis for the path of national service suggested by the edict. That the speaker addresses the elite is evident from his The emphasis on the symbolic significance of religion is advocated as of greater relevance, as the explicator of many ethical precepts, in the latter numbers of the edict. The ethical precepts occur initially as indicators of public attitude in a situation of economic devastation of the country. The notion of worship is transformed into the idea of service by taking on the burden of the deprived sections of the country who live in squalor; 18. The tradition of charity in Bharatbarsha does not take into consideration the hungry labourers (sudras) of the country. What it does is nearly to fill up the stomach of lazy Brahmins, who are the same as the stone in temples they worship but convey their benevolent patrons to heaven. 19. The weak minded traveler, who gives some money to these people might console himself by believing that he has earned a place for himself in heaven but there is no doubt in the fact that he has done something to worsen the situation in the country.critique of practice. The aim is to reform the harmful aspects of elite public activity. Thus the specific situation to which the discourse fits itself is the question of public presence of the elite. If one attempts to understand how this particular notion of public presence is related to questions of hegemony, it is important to see the trajectory of the construction of ethical principles that are supposed to guide public life. Thee awareness of hegemony is seen to be embedded in the configuration of universality to which the reader is open after going through 108 points. [One can feel one with the nation only if one is able to see all citizens of the nation as the same.] This act of seeing is engendered or represented by a series of ethical precepts which signify a certain form of public presence. A functionalist attitude towards ritualized forms of communal activity is a key point. This functionalist attitude warrants an understanding of forms and consequences of action, which can be had only through precepts of universality suggested by these points. This is how the significance of religious rituals is reconfigured to establish a new logic for the configuration of the elite and national public, hence emphasizing its elite points of reference by directing itself primarily towards the individual. 23.The abhorrence of natural waste matter, to shirk from touching bodies and bones of dead animals are the primary reasons for the poverty of the country. 25. O Young reformer! Do not criticize the ancient customs and devotion to divinity that characterizes Bharatvarsha. If you sow new seeds of opposition, the citizens of this country can never aspire to oneness. 28. Only he is worthy of becoming a leader who never protests against the foolishness of his compatriots, betrayal by his followers, the ungratefulness of mankind and the stubbornness of the public. The agency that is configured by Swami Ramtirth is thus in the form of knowledge, which provides an orientation for the configuration of the ideal public. Juxtaposed with the prose part where the narrative is a journey through history and life experiences told in the second person by the Swami , the edict form is intended to embody a moment when private communication urges a public act. The edict thus occurs as a series of statements that either affirm or negate. This is actually a language of choice where the attempt is to bring about a realm of the individual being of the citizen of the nation. It is thus conceived as a time of movement where all social affiliations other than that of the nation reveal their evanescent nature. 42. Do not become a part of religion just because it is ancient. 43. Do not become part of a religion just because it is new. 44. Do not become part of a religion because a selected few believe in it. 45.Do not become a part of a religion because many people believe in it. 46. Do not become part of a religion because its propagators are renouncers. Because there are many who have renounced everything yet they know nothing. They are fanatics. 47. Do not become a part of a religion just because it is followed by kings. 52. If you stuff innocent children by force with religious ideas then they will become spiritually retarded. The realm of choice thus comes forth as a strategy of time whereby the figure of the Swami becomes coeval to that of the national citizen. It is the moment when his body resolves the aporia of being a member of the nation. 27. The essence of progress is service and love, not obedience or force. 58. The decision whether an act of charity is justified lies not in the intension but in the real effects of the act. 81. The verdict of the Gods is that man must remain free from worries although his body must be active at all times. His mind must be static while the body moves. The body must work while the soul reclines. 96. The goal of true education is not to make people do the right things but to feel good while doing the correct thing, not merely to make people hardworking but to feel good while working hard. Work is thus the broad rubric which the body of the Swami enacts. The nature of work is the implicated content of the message, for it is the task of defining engagement that forms the basis of being a nationalist. The ideal is articulated as causing progress which connects to the overall context of poverty and deprivation in the nation. While the cause of 'progress' engendered the coherent realm of nationalist ethics, it also defines its limitation, vis-à-vis the wider scope of religion. The criticism of orthodox ritual practice as religion is part of the ethics of progress. However, the framing and articulation of the latter is heavily reliant on religious concepts which have the effect of re establishing the overall validity of religion as an organizing principle. The ideas of 'service' and 'love'are notions which translate the embodiment of nationhood into the inherent duality of the process of work. The being that works has to be a dual being as part of the essential duality of being a nationalist with respect to religion. The paradigms of negation and affirmation generate a firmly individual mode of existence whose relationship to the nation is defined by a condition of time that is beyond the given aporia. This generates the possibility of a history that is beyond the duality embodied in choices. Since it is an individual condition of a critical engagement with religious ideas the metaphors of history need also be so. The narrative of history which is formed by a sequence of ethical premises is extremely eclectic in the discourses of Swami Ramtirth. Instances from Mughal times and quotations from Victorian poetry are common. The map as an embodiment of this ambivalence can be seen here as a visual medium.(Picture in blog Gitainpress) From apnawritings at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 22 12:23:19 2007 From: apnawritings at yahoo.co.in (ARNAB CHATTERJEE) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:53:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] SHUDDHA'S CONSENT THEORY OF CENSORSHIP--IT WILL BE In-Reply-To: <46C81E0A.2030506@sarai.net> Message-ID: <369711.99208.qm@web8515.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha,Mahmood farooqui,SARAI readers and writers, Though--as I see it---Shuddha has engaged with one of my questions and has bypassed too many, particularly those that were in my second mail previous to Shuddha's first response. I've decided to wait for some time and allow Shuddha to come back for the third time and by this perhaps the debate will become more encompassing and not limited to only exploring the liasion between editing and censorship. This is necessitated also by Shuddha's first post on the attack on Taslima which did involve a broad range of topics and the subsequent reaction formation it gave rise to. Among them Mahmood farooqui's one and that which shows serious engagement merits an answer which ought to be equally serious and I shall include his inquiry when I respond to what Shuddhabrata has said in his answer. Now, it would be stylisticlly mean ( batao bhai keya soch rahe ho!) if I do not anticipate my predictions and perforations that would work upon Shuddha's textual will--so to say, so here it is:what he proposes --I'll say ---is a consent theory of censorhip --( consent: Shuddha is very fond of this word)and he is into--with this----a mafia don's den. Whether he lives or dies there or wins a miraculous escape is a matter to wait and see. with love and regards arnab --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Arnab (and all on the list) > > Apologies, first for the delay in writing this reply > to Arnab's > questions. I had promised in my last posting on this > matter that I would > respond to the points raised by Arnab, after I had > responded to the > other issues that have marked this correspondence. > > I would like to thank Arnab for the very substantive > question he has > raised about the relationship between what occurs in > the process of > editing, and censorship. > > Do good ideas, provocative but necessary thoughts, > concepts, testimonies > and stories get left out, or tamed, or distorted > beyond recognition in > the ordinary process of editing, especially as it > occurs in the media > (print and electronic)? Of course it does. > > Ask any journalist in any mainstream publication who > covers sensitive > issues and you will know how stories get mangled > before they get to > print. Watch a story unfold as it moves from its > first 'live' report to > how it gets spun in the prime time news show on > television and you will > also see how things change as the editorial desk > begins to breathe heavy > on a story. > > And as for literary content, of course, editors pre > select and weed out > content that they consider unsuitable under pressure > from propreitors or > other powerful interests. The converse also happens, > some people are > given more than ample publishing space - the making > of literary and > jouranalistic celebrity is sometimes a carefully > choreographed affair, > and we have to begin to ask why some writers (and > stories, or topics or > themes or styles) get a lot of space just as much as > we have to ask why > some get so little or none at all. > > Finally, there is a kind of informal pre-censorship, > along with > information managemnt, that operates discreetly > within the media. It is > well known that some people in the senior echelons > of the media > profession are informal members of what > euphmestically gets called the > 'intelligence community'. Some others, lower down > the ladder, are the > footsoldiers of the intelligence community. These > gentlemen (and ladies) > perform essential functions, planting stories, > circulating fabrications, > and occasioanally, influencing editorial decisions > and policy. A phone > call from certain unlisted numbers in New Delhi will > often do the job of > removing a story that may be considered too > discomfiting. > > All of this occurs, and personally, I do not think > we have an adequate > handle on how this can be addressed. The most > important thing that needs > to be done right now, I think is a kind of everyday > but rigorous > critical reading of media and cultural material - > looking for patterns > and consistencies of content and form - such that > instances of > manipulation can be sought and speculated upon. > > We probably also need 'whistleblowers' from within > the ranks of media > professionals, but the current insecurity of work > conditions within the > journalistic profession may make this expectation > unrealistic. For media > to be free, media practitioners have to work in an > environment that > sustains a high ethical standard, and also protects > the security of > employment. None of these conditions obtain at > present. The patterns of > ownership of media also lead to unhealthy > consolidations, which render > the whole profession vulnerable. Many young and not > so young journalists > and writers are professionals who would like to work > according to far > more exacting ethical and formal standards than > their employers and > publishers would allow for. > > But does this amount to censorship? I don't think > so. We have to be > careful in distinguishing between a repressive > culture (which actively > discourages certain things from being said, or > certains styles of > expression from being used) from instances of actual > censorship. Actual > censorship, in my view, occurs when a text, image, > idea, concept, sound, > recording, film or any other artefact is prevented > from reaching its > intended audience in the way that its author saw > fit, without the > consent of the author. So, a film that is played > with scenes cut out of > it is a censored film. A film that is banned is a > censored film. A film > that disappears and does not reach its audience > becasue some powerful > people made sure that this would happen is a > censored film. But if for > instance, a filmmaker made some changes in his film > at the suggestion of > his producers or funders, and then went on to show > his film, that would > not, to my mind, be a censored film. No matter how > much the filmmaker > complained about the 'control' exercised on him in > private, if, he or > she has agreed to make changes (often as per > conditions laid down in the > contract) then his/her film is not a censored film. > Every artist has the > choice not to make or finish a work of art. If the > conditions are > unfavourable to the realization of his/her vision, > an artist can always > cease his/her labour. His/her silence, can at times > be more eloquent > than compromised speech. > > The kind of control that we see most of all in our > cultural sphere and > in our media milieu is not actually censorial. It > works with, rather > than against the author. It doesn't act on finished > work, rather, it > shapes and co authors work as it progresses. It is > repressive, (and I > think there could be more precise words than > 'repression' for what I am > attempting to describe, but since I dont have one at > the moment, > repression is what I will continue to use, perhaps > someone else can > suggest a better and less 'heavy' word). But it is > the kind of > repression that cannot work and be functional > without the active > cooperation of those it seeks to control most of all > - the producers of > literary, artistic and media content. > > More important than all of this is the control > mechanism that sits > inside peoples heads, something we could call > 'self-censorship' - and > self-censorship, motivated by nationalism, or > concerns for national > security, or an over zealous attitude to 'moral' > questions, or plain and > simple prejudice, or calculations about the > advancement of ones' > professional career has as much a role to play than > anything else. In > fact, I think that this kind of auto-censorship is > far more active > inhibitior in our milieu than any overt external > censorship. It makes > the task of the censors much easier. We are all our > own little censors. > > The only way out of this situation is for the > decentering of culture. > For the production and proliferation of as many > channels of meaning > making and information as are possible. For people > to express themselves > in more than one way, in more than one medium, in > more than one > language, in more than one form. This way, you might > escape the > repression you face in one area in the work that you > do in another. The > repressed journalist might become the emancipated > writer of literary non > fiction. The repressed poet might become the free > thinking philosopher, > and the repressed philosopher might become the > liberated poet, and so > on. It might also need new forms of anonymous and > collaborative > authorship, which allow people to write and create > in ways that they may > feel inhibited by under their own names and > identities. > > It also probably needs many platforms of > publication, on the web, but > also in print. The rise of desktop, do-it-yourself > and samizdat > publishing forms, and cheaper forms of recording and > disseminating > digital video and sound through cds, dvds and on the > web means that > things can loosen up a lot more. If someone faces a > persistent problem > of not having their work published or kept away from > an intended public, > then they can also undertake initiatives to > self-publish their > work,(including blogs and zines) and release their > work under a commons > system so that it can be reproduced and disseminated > by others to even > wider audiences and readerships. > > I totally understand your sympathy for the marginal > poet and the writer > who shuns and is shunned by the mainstream - but > that writer can also > help create the conditions that lead to the > formation of an alternative > public that effectively reduces the mainstream to a > dull and pedantic > space where nothing really interesting happens. > Artistic innovation does > not consist solely in the experimentation with new > forms, it consists > equally in new forms of publicness. > > It is my belief that a general increase and > diversity in forms of public > rendition of literary, journalistic and artistic > work can lead to an > atmosphere that eventually makes even the mainstream > sit up and take > notice, so that what might be called the 'commanding > heights' of the > media too have to buckle and become less repressive. > But all of this > requires a lot of work. > > > Now let me come to an even more substantive > question. Is editing itself > censorship? > > Let me spell out the reasons why I dont think it has > to be. > > An edited book, or magazine, or publication, or > programme, or a curated > exhibition, is also a work - just as each essay, > story, poem, film, art > work that contributes to an edited or curated entity > is also a work. > > As in any work, different kinds of authorial > entities entail different > degrees of control. An open ended and participatory > work or process, > (such as this list) can be open to any contributors > by those who are > either invited to participate or by those who > self-select themselves for > participation. An unmoderated list is a continuing > work of which we are > all authors. The only condition of authorship here > is subscription. > > However, nothing prevents a list or a blog from > declaring itself to be > moderated. And I see nothing wrong (or censorious) > in that. Often, the > authorial intention is not to invite and be > hospitable to any > contribution, but to focus on, or emphasize some > kinds of content. This > is perfectly understandable, if the authors feel > that this is the best, > or only way for them to communicate. It does not > prevent others from > communication, it just creates an exclusive zone for > certain kinds of > communication. After all, every moderated blog, > presumes the existence > of other moderated blogs - which can even link to > it, in criticism, > antagonism and opposition. This is why, it is false > and erroneous to say > that if someone moderates or culls messages from a > moderated blog, one > is being censorious. One is preserving the integrity > of one's intended > practice of communication, nothing that the > moderator of a moderated > blog does can prevent someone (say someone who is > moderated away) from > starting their own blog. Work, begets work, even in > criticism. > > I see no contradiction at all in writing in an > unmoderated mailing list, > participating in a moderated blog or e-forum, and > writing for several > rigorously edited journals, and being part of the > editorial collective > of a rigourously edited publications. Each of these > different modes of > making things public has their own norms, protocols > and ettiquette which > stem from the different purposes that they seek to > address. > > As someone who works in an editorial capacity (as > part of the editorial > collective of the Sarai Readers) I am well aware of > the fact that we > have to intervene quite heavily on certain > occasions, working closely > with writers, suggesting changes in language and the > order of > information, and of course, making decisions about > what to keep and what > to drop in terms of what makes it finally to print. > In fact selections > of contributions to the reader happen at two stages, > first when we > receive abstracts in response to the general call > for the Reader, and > secondly, when we are receive final articles. If the > author of a > promising abstract delivers a less than promising > article, sometimes, > with a heavy heart, we have to let the article go. A > book is a finite > thing, it cannot have an endless number of pages, > and so, for reasons of > editorial consistency, brevity, taste and our own > ideological > predelictions, we cull, and on occasion, we cull > with severity. But we > do not hide the fact that we cull. The call for > contributions says quite > categorically that the decision as to what to > include rests with the > editors. If the editors did not cut something out, > they would not be > editors, but would be say, additive compilers. > Anyone who sends in > contributions to such a publication does so with the > full understanding > that their contribution stands to be rejected just > as much as it stands > to be accepted. > > It is possible, that someone whose writing we may > have rejected, will be > motivated enough to start a journal or a book series > of their own, with > the express purpose of including and publishing the > kind of material > that would have been excluded from the Sarai Reader > Series, and maybe > even of rejecting the kind of stuff that we publish. > If that were to be > the case, it would be wonderful. > > After all, the only way that culture can be vigorous > is if there is > enough criticism of everything. Including everything > that each one of us > is fond of and stands for. > > > Thank you for your patience, and Arnab, I hope you > now have a fair idea > of where I stand on these matters. And sometimes, we > may feel compelled > to take a stand about someone who is being > persecuted, a book that is > being banned, or a film that is prevented from being > screened, > regardless of personal taste, or ideological > convictions. I am not a fan > of M.F.Husain's work as an artist, but I do feel > that it is tragic that > there are threats to his work. I have amivalent > feelings about Taslima > Nasrin's work, but I would stand by it's right to be > published, and for > her to be heard, even if I found it personally > distasteful, and her a > difficult person to deal with. I stand by Sanjak Kak > and his film, not > because he is a friend and a comrade, or because I > agree with much of > what is said in his film (all of which are true), > but because I believe > that every film has a right to its public, and that > every public has a > right to every film. > > with warm regards > > Shuddha > > > > ARNAB CHATTERJEE wrote: > > Dear Shuddhabrata, > > > > I’m not ashamed to say that I am an avid reader > of > > your- i.e., Shuddhabrata Sengupta’s writings as > the > > works of Jeebesh Bagchi ( recently in the Journal > of > > the Moving Image) or that of Lawrence Liang ( the > > little that I’ve read )and some works and words of > > Inder Salim and Vedabati Jogi simply fascinate me. > And > > love at times compells to engage--more and more-- > like > > this one. > > > > I have a public question for > > you--Shuddha. The remarkably clear instances of > > persecution or censorship no doubt merit > discussion > > and an activist anthropology of sorts may be > strongly > > required to comment on them but consider for > instance > > the paradigm called ‘editing’ compulsory in > newspaper > > circles and other institutionalised relatas. > Besides > > correcting linguistic and open stylistic errors ( > > which perhaps everybody will accept) there is > first > > the step of choosing articles and secondly if > chosen > > –the editing of content. Both events make edifying > and > > horrifying stories—but they are rarely available. > > Could you comment on this archival- lack ? And its > > logistics? Remember Taslima was twice awarded the > > Ananda puraskar; does it signify anything? People > > don’t discuss Malay Roy choudhury. And even Malay > is a > > bad example; Allen Gisnberg at a function > celebrating > > 25 years of Howl was asked his favourite author: > he > > named a punk novelist and said, “ but he doesn’t > get > > published.” > > > > I don’t want to elaborate on this > here > > but cryptically summarise by asking that could > editing > > be seen as also a technology of censorship and > > persecution passed under the table? Isn’t tabloid > > criticism based on the sacrifice of the best > > arguments? How could it be made accountable? Or > take > > the ready example and answer why SARAI needs to > be an > > open public forum rather than a closed one. Here > is a > > hint: if others are closed ones, then what kind > of > > freedom do they express? (Let the readers not > mistake > > this fact and reiterate the catechism that it is > > technically not possible to accommodate all and > > everything etc.) --Because, then the agency > where > > the ‘Freedom of expression’ is articulated, would > > itself be in doubt. That mediation itself is > mediated > > is poisonous knowledge. > > Now this apparently is a simple, known > > statement, but –I’ll tell you after a while—how it > is > > not. > > Simply put, I want Shuddha and all to comment, > > discuss and open the old force field of > persecution > > and the art of writing again to debate it,- but > with > > a difference: we move away from visible forms of > > coercion and explore apparently non-coercive, > > non-violent ( nearly necessary) forms of mediation > and > > translation. (are they just impossible to > handle?). > > A caution here: In this I don’t want to down > play > > the Taslima event and Shuddha’s comments on it but > I > > find myself attracted to Malay Roy Choudhury or > > Subimal Mishra rather than Taslima. The latter > pass > > away as not being persecuted at all; why? how? > > This last example is a bit gross and bypasses > the > > finer arguments I was hinting at but nevertheless > it > > puts things in a straight light and offers a > > beginner’s example. But no cause for remorse : > there > > are hundred narratives –some of them awesome—to be > > recounted here. But at first I expect Shuddha to > clear > > the cloud here. > > > > Thanks > > Yrs in discourse and defeat > > arnab > > > > > > --- Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > > > > > >>Dear All (apologies for cross posting on > Kafila.org > >>and the Sarai Reader > >>List) > >> > >>The recent attack on Taslima Nasreen has again > shown > >>how fragile the > >>freedom of expression is in India today. It breaks > >>whenever a > >>sentimental reader or viewer has their 'sentiments > >>challenged'. Are all > >>these worthy gentlemen who go about obstructing > >>screenings and readings > >>suffering from some early childhood trauma that > >>makes it difficult for > >>them to countenance growing up and acquiring the > >>ability to listen to > >>contrary point of view? How long are we to be held > >>hostage to their > >>infantile suffering? > >> > >>What is worse is the fact that the people who > >>attacked her, and have > >>made public threats to kill her - activists and > >>elected representatives > >>belonging to MIM, a leftover of the Nizam's hated > >>Razakars, were > >>arrested and then let off on bail. So, the message > >>that the state sends > >>out to these goons is - "threaten to kill, be > taken > >>to a police station > >>to have a cup of tea, have your picture taken, be > >>splashed in the media, > >>go home and make some more threats" > >> > >>see - > >> > > > > > http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=90746 > > > >>In fact, according to a report in the Indian > Express > >>today, it is Ms. > >>Nasreen who is now being booked under section 153 > - > >>the same section of > >>the penal code that was earlier used to detain the > >>unfortunate art > >>student in Baroda who had offended 'Hindu and > >>Christian sentiments'. So > >>as far as the Police in the state of Andhra > Pradesh > >>is concerned, person > >>who makes a public threat to kill a writer - a > >>prominent politician is > >>innocent, and the writer herself, who has never > >>threatened to kill > >>anyone, nor has asked others to kill people is > >>guilty of inciting > >>hatred. Both are to be treated equally. There can > be > >>no greater travesty > >>of justice than this incident, and it once again > >>demonstrates how > >>willing state power in India is to dance in tandem > >>with bigots. It > >>happens in BJP ruled Gujarat, it happens in > Congress > >>ruled Andhra > >>Pradesh. It happens (see below)in Left Front ruled > >>West Bengal. > >> > >>Once again this demonstrates that bigotry and > >>cussedness is not the > >>monopoly of the self appointed representatives of > >>any one community or > >>political tendency. If the self appointed > >>representatives of the > >>Kashmiri Pandit community and their allies pour > >>venom on Sanjay Kak on > >>this list and elsewhere, they are matched in their > >>ardour by the > >>viciousness of those who have appointed themselves > >>the guardians of > >>Islam in Hyderabad, and the protectors of Hindu > and > >>Christian dignity in > >>Baroda. And lest we forget, (we do have short > >>memories) let us remember > >>that the last time Tasleema Nasrin was vilified > and > >>hounded and her > >>publication banned in an Indian state, it just > >>happenned to be in West > >>Bengal, where she has her largest readership, and > >>this happenned because > >>the secular progressive left front regime, led by > >>the Contractors Party > >>of India (Monopolist) deemed her a threat to the > >>sanitized cultural > >>landscape that they so vigorously uphold and > >>maintain in that state. > >> > >>The CPI(M)'s party organ 'People's Democracy' > found > >>it necessary to > >>publish the official 'party line' on the ban in > its > >>issue dated November > >>7, 2003 (Vol XXVII, No 49). It said (apologies for > >>this lengthy quotation) > >> > >>"THE Bengal Left Front government has decided to > ban > >>Bangladeshi author > >>Taslima Nasreen’s latest book, Dwikhandita > >>(‘Split in Two’) because it > >>was feared that the book would incite communal > >>violence. At no point of > >>time has the book been proscribed on political or > >>literary grounds. > >> > >>In a government notification issued on November > 28, > >>the state LF > >>government has formally invoked the ban under > >>section 95 of the code of > >>Criminal Procedure, read with Act 153 of the > Indian > >>Penal Code (where it > >>is considered a criminal and punishable act to > >>create enmity, rivalry, > >>and hatred amongst religious communities. > >> > >>State secretary of the CPI (M), Anil Biswas said > >>that there was > >>apprehension expressed widely that the book would > >>spark off communal > >>tension, and that very many experts in the field > >>supported this view. > >>The LF government has banned the book for the sake > >>of the upkeep of > >>democracy in Bengal. Several newspapers, too, have > >>expressed similar > >>feelings. Biswas pointed out that “from the time > >>the Left Front has been > >>office in Bengal not a single book or publication > >>has been proscribed on > >>political grounds.” However, said Biswas, it was > a > >>different matter > >>altogether if a publication or a book incited > >>terrorism and communalism. > >> > >>Chief minister of Bengal, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee > >>whose department > >>issued the notification banning the book, said > that > >>he had himself read > >>the book “several times over.” that he has > >>“persuaded at least 25 noted > >>specialists to go through the book critically” > and > >>that they have > >>recommended the book to be not fit for circulation > >>among the reading > >>public. In particular, the pages 49-50 of the > book > >>contain very > >>derogatory and provocative references that go > >>against the grain of the > >>tenets of Islam and of Islamic beliefs. > >> > >> Several noted authors including the poet Sunil > >>Gangopadhyay, the > >>novelists, Dibyendu Palit, Nabanita Deb Sen, and > >>Syed Mustafa Siraj, the > >>Bangladeshi novelist, Sams-ul Huq, the singer > Suman > >>Chatterjee, as well > >>as the Trinamul Congress leader and Kolkata mayor, > >>Subrata Mukherjee, > >>among others, have come openly out against the > book > >>and have supported > >>the decision by the state LF government to get the > >>book banned. > >> > >>Pradesh Congress leader Somen Mitra who has called > >>Taslima Nasreen a > >>blot on the world of women, has described the book > >>as having no > >>difference with a piece of pornography and has > said > >>that nobody ought to > >>assume rights to hurt the sentiments of a > religious > >>community. > >> > >>The book which forms a part of Nasreen’s > >>multi-volume autobiography has > >>been charged by the reading public of Kolkata and > >>Bengal with obscenity > >>and has come under fire for its maligning and > >>falsified personal > >>references to the lives of several noted scholars > of > >>Bengal and > >>Bangladesh as well. > >> > >>However, the book, as Anil Biswas made clear while > >>speaking to the media > >>in Kolkata recently, was banned because of the > fact > >>that portions of the > >>book would cause religious disharmony to break > out, > >>with the religious > >>fundamentalists utilising the book to fan the > flame > >>of communal fire. > >> > >>True to form, the BJP chief Tathagata Roy has > >>supported Taslima > >>Nasreen’s derogatory references to Islam and has > >>opposed the > >>proscription of the book. Mamata Banerjee has > >>chosen to hold her > >>silence, as she is wont to do of late on very many > >>other matters as well." > >> > >>It appears that if there is one thing that > religious > >>fundamentalists, > >>communal, nationalist, secular and leftist > >>politicians agree on is the > >>necessity to curb the freedom of expression in > Inda. > >> > >>There is only one possible ethical response to > this > >>pathetic display of > >>arrogance by the self appointed representatives of > >>Hindu, Muslim, > >>Christian and Communist sentiment, and that is to > >>ensure the widest > >>possible circulation of these materials in the > >>public domain. It is to > >>organize as many screenings as possible of a film > >>like 'Jashn-e-Azaadi' > >>(or any other film that is attacked in a similar > >>fashion) and to hold > >>public readings and distributions of the books of > >>someone like Taslima > >>Nasreen. > >> > >>In 'Homeless Everywhere:Writing in Exile' an essay > >>by Taslima Nasreen > >>that had been first published in English in Sarai > >>Reader 04: Turbuluence > >> > >> > > > > > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > > >>She wrote - > >> > >>"Just like in West Bengal today, my books have > been > >>banned earlier in > >>Bangladesh on the excuse that they may incite > riots. > >>The communal > >>tension raging through South Asia is not caused by > >>my books but by other > >>reasons. The torture of Bangladesh’s minorities, > >>the killing of Muslims > >>in Gujarat, the oppression of Biharis in Assam, > the > >>attacks against > >>Christians, and the Shia-Sunni conflicts in > Pakistan > >>have all occurred > >>without any contribution from me. Even if I am an > >>insignificant writer, > >>I write for humanity, I write with all my heart > that > >>every human being > >>is equal, and there must be no discrimination on > the > >>basis of gender, > >>colour, or religion. Everyone has the right to > live. > >>Riots don’t break > >>out because of what I write. But I am the one who > is > >>punished for what I > >>write. Fires rage in my home. I am the one who has > >>to suffer exile. I am > >>the one who is homeless everywhere." > >> > >> > >>If we want to ensure that writers, filmmakers and > >>artists are not > >>'homeless everywhere' then we have to ensure that > >>they receive the > >>hospitality that enables the conditions that allow > >>their work, thought > >>and expression to continue to have a public life. > >>This means making sure > >>that their work lives and continues to breathe in > >>society, by any means > >>necessary. > >> > >>For those who are interested, and can read Bangla, > >>some of Taslima > >>Nasrin's work is available in the form of > >>downloadable pdfs from > >>www.talimanasrin.com. When the venerable Buddhadev > >>Bhattacharya decided, > >>after consulting twenty five eminent intellectuals > >>to ban her book, I > >>decided to download the said book, make twenty six > >>photocopies of the > >>entire book bind them and distribute them free. > >> > >>That is one method to deal with censorship (formal > >>or informal) I am > >>sure that there are other, more creative methods > out > >>there as well. I > >>would welcome practical suggestions from those in > >>the community of the > >>people who are reading this post > >>about how these attacks on the freedom of > expression > >>may be confronted > >>and made irrelevant. Let us try and make some time > >>for peaceful film > >>watching and reading. > >> > >>best > >> > >>Shuddha > >> > >> > >>_________________________________________ > >>reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > >>the city. > >>Critiques & Collaborations > >>To subscribe: send an email to > >>reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the > >>subject header. > >>To unsubscribe: > >>https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you > wish. To know how, go to > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > > > DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From iram at sarai.net Wed Aug 22 14:09:41 2007 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:09:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Fwd: Nigah screens "Brother Outsider" In-Reply-To: <8c9003440708211859w2ccba0a2jcc2a825de216264b@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c9003440708211859w2ccba0a2jcc2a825de216264b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46CBF64D.5050001@sarai.net> ===============Announcement from Nigah================= Hello, Nigah will be screening the feature documentary "Brother Outside, The Life of Bayard Rustin", at 6:30 pm on August 25th, Saturday. The address is 3, Windmill Place, Khidki, right next door to the Khoj Studios. "Brother Outsider relies on archival film footage and interviews to offer an incisive portrait of political activist Bayard Rustin. Although his name lacks the familiarity of other major Civil Rights leaders, the film shows that he nonetheless played a central role in the movement's seminal events during the 1950s and '60s. He traveled to Montgomery in 1956 during the bus boycotts where he advised Martin Luther King on non-violence, and served as the central organizer for the March on Washington in 1963. Rustin's political liabilities, however, often kept him out of the spotlight. He was a conscientious objector during World War II and, for a short time, belonged to the Communist Party. More problematic, however, was Rustin's homosexuality. His political enemies used his sexual orientation to neutralize him, while his political allies often shunned him because of it. Rustin also advocated for nuclear non-proliferation, and traveled to the Algerian Sahara to protest the first French nuclear test in 1960. Brother Outsider includes ample footage of Rustin himself, adding an autobiographical aspect to this feisty portrait." See you there. Cheers, Nigah, Delhi _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 14:24:28 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir: Through a Pak militant's lens Message-ID: <57441.7880.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This is from the website of "Friends of Kashmir" which functions under the Chairmanship of Lord Avebury. I have taken the liiberty of highlighting some lines for everyone's specific attention. Kshmendra Kaul Kashmir: Through a Pak militant's lens By Javed Hussain Shah Kashmir, the abode of saints and sufis, is bleeding. This symbol of unity in diversity is torn apart by intolerance and hatred. Once considered a paradise on earth, Kashmir is today a vast burial ground of thousands of Kashmiris punished for uncommitted sins. Kashmir's journey from paradise to hell, like mine, began in 1989. It has since been bleeding, caught in a vortex of violence - violence which gets a two para mention, sometimes not even that, in our national newspapers. Kashmir is now a burial ground where even the dead get no peace. And as book after book is churned out and experts debate the Kashmir "dispute" in distant Geneva and the United Nations, the true story remains untold. While Kashmir remains just another hotbed of fundamentalist violence for the West, the Indian press too has failed in its duty to put things in the right perspective. As for the protagonists of the Kashmir violence, they have so far avoided coming out in the open with the true story. 'Azadi' was at one time my junoon and it took me across the border to ISI camps in Pakistan, where I was trained to kill, plunder, loot - all in the name of Islam, I returned with power flowing from the barrel of the gun. I was trained by my "masters" in Pakistan to record the violence in such a manner that the blame shifted from the militants to the security forces. I am one of the living characters of this untold story. I too had joined the forces of "liberation" way back in 1989. Being an ISI - trained Pakistani militant, I am a reliable witness to the mechanisations of the forces of destruction, disruption and fascist intrigues of Pakistan. I am fully aware of the true character of the living players of the untold story. Having been shocked to see Kashmiris exposed of violence and brutality, hatred, aggression against peace-loving people, ethnic cleansing, distortion of socio-political history of Kashmir, and misery and poverty made me ponder over my role. My conscience revolted and I decided to come out with the untold story. I realised that I was fighting a futile battle. I was not fighting for Kashmir, but I was fighting Pakistan's battle against the Muslim of Kashmir. ISI training had deprived me of rational thinking. My Pakistani trainers had trained me to hate the brighter side of a peaceful life of Kashmir. They made me robot performing mechanical motions and tasks. Like me, thousands of other robots are performing tasks on the whims of remote control masters. I was trained to record the death dance through the eye of the camera with the sole aim of shifting the blame from Pak-trained terrorists to the security forces. Being a robot, I had no idea what I was recording could expose the criminality of the Islamic "Mujahideen" who are professing to liberate Kashmir. Justice, equality, freedom of speech, tolerance, right to live and right to one's own belief are the basic tenets of humanity. But ISI -trained robots like me were taught that freedom, respect for each other and religious tolerance, are the anti-thesis of Islam. We were trained to demolish secular credentials of Kashmir, destroy symbols of temples of tolerance and age-old traditions of coexistence of different faiths. Though initially, I mechanically believed such un-Islamic interpretation of my faith, a time came when I revolted and decided to expose the true story. Pakistan claims that it is lending moral and diplomatic assistance to the so-called freedom fighters and at the same time, professes to defend Islam by Islamic Jehad. There was never any danger to Islam in Kashmir, Pakistan, in fact, has started Jehad not against enemies of Islam but against Muslims of Kashmir. I recorded killing of innocent children women and men; I recorded the devastation and destruction of all symbols of unity in diversity, ethnic cleansing; I am witness to the growth of Jamat-e-Islami - a savage enemy of the Sufi culture of Kashmir. Yet, people ask who is responsible for all this. So-called human rights activists, self-proclaimed conscience keepers of the moth-eaten civil society, blame security forces for this madness. The press, in general, consciously or unconsciously, has failed in its national duty to put things before the people in the right perspective. Western countries are busy in their own power games in South Asia. The blood-curdling pictures of butchered children, women and men (as shown in my book) have no name, no postal address and no identity of their own. The only fact about these pictures is that they expose the ugly face of Pakistan in Kashmir. There are no captions, and no details as the pictures themselves convey the real story. On third cover and back cover of this pictorial booklet are pictures of the Dargah of Nund Rishi at Charar-e-Sharif. The dargah was destroyed by Pakistani robot Mast Gul, who crossed back to Pakistan where he was welcomed as hero of Islam. He does not need any introduction as during the siege of Charar-e-Sharif, print and electronic media were witness to the savage act of Mast Gul. Words have lost their meaning, conditional or unconditional talks are meaningless, fiery speeches no more move the people. Promises of peace have no relevance. Pakistan continues to strike at the very roots of existence of Kashmir. Only blood-letting pictures have relevance. Back cover has two pictures - one of Mast Gul among his armed band of hoodlums and other shows him in the company of Shabir Shah, the so-called Nelson Mandela of Kashmir, and Hurriyat leader A. G. Lone. Does it need any caption? Without any footnotes, it unfolds the truth about the untold story. I hope now body will ask the question: who is responsible for the ruination of the Paradise on earth. - CNF Service http://www.kashmir.co.uk/militant_x.htm --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. From zigzackly at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 15:45:21 2007 From: zigzackly at gmail.com (peter griffin) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:45:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for papers - launch of trAce Journal of Hypertext and Text-art In-Reply-To: <431EDF0B-4281-40C8-BEBA-DFEEE705A5DD@beds.ac.uk> References: <431EDF0B-4281-40C8-BEBA-DFEEE705A5DD@beds.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4d145a50708220315p521bfd0eh6b785e2ed8200ff3@mail.gmail.com> ---------- message ---------- From: Lesley McKenna Date: 22-Aug-2007 14:55 Subject: Call for papers - launch of trAce Journal of Hypertext and Text-art Dear all *UNIVERSITY OF BEDFORDSHIRE: RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF MEDIA ART AND DESIGN* trAce Online Journal of Hypertext and Text-art * * *CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS AND PAPERS* * * * * The trAce Online Journal of Hypertext and Text-art will soon be launching its first edition and invites submissions of hypertext, text-art and art-text from practitioners in the field. Work sent for consideration should be constructed with proprietary, commercially available software, such as Flash, Quicktime etc. We also welcome essays relating to narratology, poetics, the use of hyptertext in writing, and discourses on the area of text-art/art-text. Submissions and enquiries should be directed to trace at beds.ac.uk From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 17:31:21 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <46CA37CA.7050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <952257.23588.qm@web57214.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Tapas Easily answered, at least by me speaking for myself. YES. Religion should have no mention or role to play in India's Laws, not any religion. The convoluted interpretation of "secular" that is currently employed is tearing apart the country. I would be interested in knowing which Hindu Laws for Property and Marriage are operating in India. A recent Court Judgment makes it clear that marriages MUST be registered and such a registration is the only recognition of 'marriage'. Evidencing that the couple has reached that arrangement can be done by declarations in front of the Registrar of Marriages under Special Marriages Act or by producing evidence of any pertinent religious ritual (pujari's certificate, nikkahnama, invitation cards, photographs etc). I believe the Special Marriages Act endows special protection to the woman in the case of divorce. The Hindus used to have the system that the eldest son is the "karta darta" and sole inheritor. That system is long dead and gone. To the best of my knowledge, the inheritance laws are now equitable and without any gender bias and are not specifically "hindu". The "using" of "Joint Family" as a loophole to cheat the Govt out of Tax Revenues has also been plugged (to the best of my knowledge) Tapas the point is exactly what you have alluded to. One of the grouses and I would say foundations on which the "Hindutva" sentiment rests is that the Hindu must and has been made to submit to modernity/liberal/equitable/human/humane and subsequent change of thereto followed Laws/Principles/Rituals.......but the people of other faiths are allowed their "Laws" howsoever degrading they might be. Whether by consent or silent acquiescence the Hindu had to accept changes in systems/rituals howsoever sanctified and divinely sanctioned they might have been considered. Sorry, no child marriage; sorry, no Sati; sorry, no Caste System; sorry, no Dowry demands etc etc In a truly "secular" environment the same principle should apply to everyone with uniformity of Civil and Criminal Codes. - Sorry, the Vatican or the Pastor has no role to play in dissolution of marriage. - Sorry, the Muslim woman or any woman in the case of divorce will get her share as equal partner in couple's earnings during marriage and not just "Haq Meher' - Sorry, in the case of divorce it is incumbent on one ex-partner (with higher earnings) to pay regular maintenance (for children up to adulthood) to the other ex-partner (lower or no earnings) who might have custody of the children. - Sorry, this system of Man being allowed 4 wives simultaneously is not acceptable - Sorry, Talaq, Talaq Talaq pronounced simultaneously (amongst Sunnis) is not acceptable as being dissolution of marriage I must mention here that the basic Quranic principle for divorce is excellent. 3 periods of woman's menses have to be allowed (no sexual contact between couple) with 3 spaced out pronouncements of Talaq before it gets finalised. It gives partners time to think, it obviates pregnant woman being divorced without recourse. It could be used as inspiration for Uniform Civil Code. Similarly, the Quranic injunction for more than 1 wife at the same time is so demanding and strict that it is an impossibility. Yet we see how it is abused. Even Hindus profess to have converted to Islam to avail of more than 1 wife simultaneously because of the current loose application. Tapas, I am clear on this, if a man is allowed 4 wives, the woman must be allowed 4 husbands and not just Muslims but everyone. Can you imagine the chaos if Hindus also cited Heritage or some scripture and demanded 3 wives just like Raja Dasharath had or 5 husbands like Draupadi had. Or Sati or Caste superiority. There is also the very pertinent question as to why penalising punishments are not given to Muslims as per Islamic principles (if any precedent from Islamic Law is to be applied to Muslims at all). We will be quite a society of Limbs chopped off, Death by Stoning, 80 lashes. So Tapas, it is not up to the Hindus to be willing to give up Hindu Laws. They have been denied and rightly should have no choice. Similarly the Muslims should have no choice. Laws by common consent (by due Constitutional processes) should be equally applicable to all. Ironically (and this is something for us Indians to think about) Jinnah in his Presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan (11th Aug 1947) presented one of the finest definitions of "secular" I have come across. Extracts from what Jinnah said: " You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State" " We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State." " Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State." In the case of India we must add (to Hindus, Muslims), Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Bahai, Atheists, Agnostics etc., etc., etc., etc. Kshmendra Kaul PS: Concession should be given to the dead. Let people choose between graveyards, cremation grounds, crematoriums, wells of silence etc Tapas Ray wrote: There also are laws specific to Hindus - at least for property and marriage. Would all Hindus be willing to give these up and embrace a uniform civil code? TR S.Fatima wrote: > And cultural diversity demands that not everyone is forced to live > the same way, with a uniform culture and laws. If I > stayed back in India, I did so because I wanted to > live in a multicutural country. Now if I am asked to > live under conditions of uniformity, then what's the > point of my not migrating to Pakistan. If my right to > live with my culture is denied, then I might as well > leave India. But where else can I go - there is no > other place in the world that I can call home. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 17:52:13 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <493896.28486.qm@web8404.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <454863.36622.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sadia I will not interfere in your ongoing dialogue with Vadavati. Even though I would have loved to explore the distinctions between "uniform culture" and "uniform laws" Sadia, you are an Indian. You happen to follow the Islamic Faith. India is your Land as much as it is of any person belonging to any religious faith (or no religious faith). Islam is as much a part of India as any other religion. Sadia let no one dare tell you anything other than that. If one does then he/she is an enemy of the Nation with little or no understanding of India. With love and affection and somewhat dampened eyes Kshmendra Kaul "S.Fatima" wrote: Dear Vedavati No, being tolerant doesn't mean being tolerant to the criminals and wrong-doers. I am against the so-called terrorists. But of course, it is the duty of our law and judiciary to prove who is a wrong-doer and who is not (which in the case of the names you mentioned, is undecided). I am simply referring to being tolerant to the ordianary citizens of the country whatever religion they may belong to, and not judge all the people of a certain community from the perspective of what their ancestors did centuries ago. If most Indian Muslims wanted Pakistan, then why didn't all of them migrate there? Why did the best talented muslims stay back here? The answer is simple - they didn't want Pakistan. And Jinnah was not the only one responsible for Pakistan. Nehru, Patel and Mountbatten played very strong role in the creation of Pakistan. And this fact is not a Congress history - congress will never accept it. I will give you a few more interesting facts which are proven/documented: 1. When large number of Muslim families in Delhi had packed up to leave for Pakistan, Maulana Azad gave a very emotional speech at Jama Masjid where he tried to persuade Muslims not to leave as THIS IS their homeland for centuries. And after his speech, many families actually decided to go back to their homes. 2. It is assumed that Muslim league which demanded Pakistan, was supported by all the Muslims of India, but the fact is that in an election conducted just before 1947, a very small percentage of Muslims voted for Muslim league. So, how can the demand of only a party (Muslim league) be considered a demand of all the Muslims. 3. It is assumed that the poet Iqbal gave the idea of Pakistan. Yes Iqbal did talk about a separate geograpical region (not a country) dominated by Muslims, but at a later stage Iqbal wrote a letter to one of his British friends, clarifying that he never meant a separate country for Muslims. 4. I have many relatives in Karachi who migrated from UP in 1947. Whenever I speak to them they cry for India. All of them, especially the older people, say that the creation of Pakistan was a futile excercise to them - they repent for having left their homes. As refugees they are second class citizens in that country. (this is the same story with all migrants - whether Hindus or Muslims, on either side of the border. And the statistics which you quote - 20 million Hindus - is debateable. What is your source of this statistics? If we start fighting over statistics, we will never reach any conclusions - these are subjective figures). Why do hide the fact that thousands of Muslims were killed in India (especially Punjab) before they could even migrate. The other issues that you raised, actually the answer to most of them lies in what I call "cultural diversity". That is most beautiful thing about our country - not to be found anywhere else. And cultural diversity demands that not everyone is forced to live the same way, with a uniform culture and laws. If I stayed back in India, I did so because I wanted to live in a multicutural country. Now if I am asked to live under conditions of uniformity, then what's the point of my not migrating to Pakistan. If my right to live with my culture is denied, then I might as well leave India. But where else can I go - there is no other place in the world that I can call home. S.F. (By the way, I want to know what is your definition of patriotism? Is putting a tricolour on ones' house or car patriotism? Is cheering for one's cricket team patriotism? Is making nuclear weapons patriotism? What is patriotism? What activities should I do to be called patriotic). --- Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as > I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, > I too would love to discuss certain issues with you > as I am also interested in solutions. > > I fully agree with you when you say that one must be > tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. > An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed > who loves India and who has national interest > foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship > war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, > Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in > equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is > not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you > expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin > malik? > To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it > is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only > because he is a Muslim? > > Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did > not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to > pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . > This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress > or Left parties. But real History tells something > else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak > and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim > community, Muslims did not look upon him as their > leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by > Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali > brothers. > ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular > Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable > to Muslims as well as Seculars ) > Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became > religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims > wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan > would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could > not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed > back in India because their daily bread & butter was > here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims > who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what > about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, > wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? > > One major difference was while in Pakistan even head > of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging > & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos > from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between > Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the > help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had > never dared to use against Muslims.) > > Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who > stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and > that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have > chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to > accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. > It appears they can understand only their rights > like reservations & implementation of Sacchar > committee report. But with rights comes > responsibility too. > > What is practised in India is not secularism, it is > minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. > Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa > muslims should send their children to regional > language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody > has stopped them from giving equal rights to their > female folks. To preserve their separate identity > they don’t do that. And unfortunately this > separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever > muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and > when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ > happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not > accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their > ways. > > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want > to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor > ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in > a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love > to engage in a debate with you if we both> are > interested in solutions. I feel that being> > patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> > not the only solution. Being tolerant and> > compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would > be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail > that I understand the pain> of all those who have > been affected by the violence,> hatred and > displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition > did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims > did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> > historically), and had to migrate to escape the> > violence. You may go and see the plight of many> > migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go > to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities > have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do > you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether > you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it > further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate > rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take > back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral > property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are > still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular > leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 > years to> > visit those camps), two of his best > friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they > were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members > of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped > mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and > if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > > should also start killing members of muslim league> > > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all > you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > > pakistan.> > and then talk about these > sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't > want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too > childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> > mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The > complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be > trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this > analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so > huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind > having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge > in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> > came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and > my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to > becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" > decided to call it their> home, they are> > no > longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > > let's talk about the guests> taking over the > house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if > they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> > can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this > house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on > that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha > or me to leave the> country> > if we do not > subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism > and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any > specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I > haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> > solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve > the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in > their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the > brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri > Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be > wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) > does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to > this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides > and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve > any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- > Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I > will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine > a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > > distant relatives come to your house & start> > > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately > they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take > refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to > protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be > honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests > are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to > throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in > the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing > terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out > Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a > nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to > say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my > country! === message truncated === Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 18:29:26 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] m iqbal In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708211351g6dca5ac5g6a5ed40350b0bfe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <142935.29556.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yasir For now, part answer is in the Taraana that Iqbal specially wrote for me. Yes, Yes, for me. Kshmendra Kaul nayaa shivaalaa sach kah duu.N ai brahman gar tuu buraa na maane tere sanam kado.n ke but ho gaye puraane apano.n se bair rakhanaa tuu ne buto.n se siikhaa jang-o-jadal sikhaayaa vaa_iz ko bhii Khudaa ne tang aake aaKhir mai.n ne dair-o-haram ko chho.Daa vaa_iz kaa vaaz chho.Daa, chho.De tere fasaane patthar kii muurato.n me.n samajhaa hai tuu Khudaa hai Khaak-e-vatan kaa mujh ko har zarraa devataa hai aa Gairat ke parde ik baar phir uThaa de.n bichha.Do.n ko phir milaa de.n naqsh-e-du_ii miTaa de.n suunii pa.Dii hu_ii hai muddat se dil kii bastii aa ik nayaa shivaalaa is des me.n banaa de.n duniyaa ke tiiratho.n se uu.Nchaa ho apanaa tiirath daamaan-e-aasmaa.N se is kaa kalas milaa de.n har subah mil ke gaaye.n mantar vo miiThe miiThe saare pujaariyo.n ko mai piit kii pilaa de.n shaktii bhii shaantii bhii bhakto.n ke giit me.n hai dharatii ke baasiyo.n kii muktii priit me.n hai yasir ~ wrote: kshemendra & rashneek : since you both seem to have some regard for iqbal, i'm curious to know how you have studied him. Is it in Urdu, or its transcription in devanagri or english, and the persian ? Is this required reading of some sort or individual initiative? altho i may incline towards ghalibs poetry and admire iqbals prose more, I will be grateful if you say something about this. best yasir _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 18:36:44 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] m iqbal (reposted for clarity) In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708211351g6dca5ac5g6a5ed40350b0bfe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <754263.46479.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yasir For now, part answer is in the Taraana that Iqbal specially wrote for me. Yes, Yes, for me. Kshmendra Kaul nayaa shivaalaa saach kah duu.N ai brahman gar tuu buraa na maane tere sanam kado.n ke but ho gaye puraane apano.n se bair rakhanaa tuu ne buto.n se siikhaa jang-o-jadal sikhaayaa vaa_iz ko bhii Khudaa ne tang aake aaKhir mai.n ne dair-o-haram ko chho.Daa vaa_iz kaa vaaz chho.Daa, chho.De tere fasaane patthar kii muurato.n me.n samajhaa hai tuu Khudaa hai Khaak-e-vatan kaa mujh ko har zarraa devataa hai aa Gairat ke parde ik baar phir uThaa de.n bichha.Do.n ko phir milaa de.n naqsh-e-du_ii miTaa de.n suunii pa.Dii hu_ii hai muddat se dil kii bastii aa ik nayaa shivaalaa is des me.n banaa de.n duniyaa ke tiiratho.n se uu.Nchaa ho apanaa tiirath daamaan-e-aasmaa.N se is kaa kalas milaa de.n har subah mil ke gaaye.n mantar vo miiThe miiThe saare pujaariyo.n ko mai piit kii pilaa de.n shaktii bhii shaantii bhii bhakto.n ke giit me.n hai dharatii ke baasiyo.n kii muktii priit me.n hai yasir ~ wrote: kshemendra & rashneek : since you both seem to have some regard for iqbal, i'm curious to know how you have studied him. Is it in Urdu, or its transcription in devanagri or english, and the persian ? Is this required reading of some sort or individual initiative? altho i may incline towards ghalibs poetry and admire iqbals prose more, I will be grateful if you say something about this. best yasir _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 20:07:07 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:07:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Liberal or Hypocrites by Nishant Dudha Message-ID: <13df7c120708220737n16552a76udf7f85be203b125@mail.gmail.com> The urban Indian intellectuals proudly declare themselves as liberals. They do not stop there, they go a step ahead and claim themselves to be the reason for the existence of Indian nation state and everything good that India stands for. Everything that this nation has managed to uphold, despite naysayer's prediction about us 60 years ago. This may be true to some extent, but I wonder how to define this Indialiberalism, that makes messiahs of monsters. That allows secessionist venom to be spewed in the name of "Freedom of Expression" but scoffs at ultra-nationalism. That loves to label Minority Appeasement as Affirmative Action but when the recipient of appeasement is Majority, it is quick to label it as Fundamentalism. All these questions used to arise in my mind at different points of time, but what has collated them is the following sequence of events. Kamla Nehru College authorities had allowed RIK to screen a movie "And the world remained silent" followed by a panel discussion about this alternate perspective of truth nation refused to see. A few days later they revoke the permission assigning the cause as non-availability of proper facilities. And now we get to know, in the same time slot and on the same day another movie is being screened at the same venue. I can't fathom the reason, the question that arises in my head which possibly you could help me find an answer to is: Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite? -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 20:12:51 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:12:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Liberal or Hypocrites by Nishant Dudha Message-ID: <13df7c120708220742o3db011b8vf050ef7f0947d3d2@mail.gmail.com> The urban Indian intellectuals proudly declare themselves as liberals. They do not stop there, they go a step ahead and claim themselves to be the reason for the existence of Indian nation state and everything good that India stands for. Everything that this nation has managed to uphold, despite naysayer's prediction about us 60 years ago. This may be true to some extent, but I wonder how to define this Indialiberalism, that makes messiahs of monsters. That allows secessionist venom to be spewed in the name of "Freedom of Expression" but scoffs at ultra-nationalism. That loves to label Minority Appeasement as Affirmative Action but when the recipient of appeasement is Majority, it is quick to label it as Fundamentalism. All these questions used to arise in my mind at different points of time, but what has collated them is the following sequence of events. Kamla Nehru College authorities allowed RIK to screen a movie "And the world remained silent" followed by a panel discussion about this alternate perspective of truth nation refuses to see. A few days later they revoke the permission assigning the cause as non-availability of proper facilities. And now we get to know, in the same time slot and on the same day another movie is being screened at the same venue. I can't fathom the reason, the question that arises in my head which possibly you could help me find an answer to is: Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite? -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From ysikand at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 23:19:45 2007 From: ysikand at gmail.com (Yogi Sikand) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:19:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Copies of Sachar Committee Report Available Message-ID: <48097acc0708221049t727da10h9330f7fbd9b5840b@mail.gmail.com> Sachar Committee Report (High Level Committee Report on the Status of the Muslim Community of India ) A few copies of the High Level Committee Report on the Status of the Muslim Community of India (Justice Sachar Committee report) are available with us. To buy the report please contact us on: Global Media Publications E-14, AFE, Jamia Nagar, Okhla, New Delhi-25 E-mail: info at gmpublications.com Tel: 9818327757 The report can also be ordered online: www.gmublications.com For orders from India, copies are priced at Rs. 600 each (including postage) From tapasrayx at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 07:41:44 2007 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:41:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <952257.23588.qm@web57214.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <952257.23588.qm@web57214.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CCECE0.8040306@gmail.com> The Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, and the Hindu Succession Act, 1956. Tapas Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > I would be interested in knowing which Hindu Laws for Property and > Marriage are operating in India. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 09:50:10 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:50:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Copies of Sachar Committee Report Available In-Reply-To: <48097acc0708221049t727da10h9330f7fbd9b5840b@mail.gmail.com> References: <48097acc0708221049t727da10h9330f7fbd9b5840b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708222120k7d91c702o37c0378c9d15fc6b@mail.gmail.com> Mr Yogi , It would be intresting to go through the book . However if you have read that book I would like to know has the Sachhar Commiittee report made any mention of non coeperation from poorer class among muslims when it came to progressive ideas. These poor and uneductaed people had mostly been driven by maulvis to drive the ideas . Had these poor people understood about planning their family , educating their children, I believe the situation would have been different. But as Sachhar Committe report goes, it gives a picture of result, not the cause of result. Juz my ideas Respectfully Pawan Durani On 8/22/07, Yogi Sikand wrote: > > Sachar Committee Report (High Level Committee Report on the Status of > the Muslim Community of India ) > > A few copies of the High Level Committee Report on the Status of the > Muslim Community of India (Justice Sachar Committee report) are > available with us. > > To buy the report please contact us on: > > Global Media Publications > E-14, AFE, Jamia Nagar, > Okhla, New Delhi-25 > E-mail: info at gmpublications.com > Tel: 9818327757 > The report can also be ordered online: www.gmublications.com > For orders from India, copies are priced at Rs. 600 each (including > postage) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From keshvani at leoalmanac.org Sun Aug 19 05:41:55 2007 From: keshvani at leoalmanac.org (Nisar Keshvani, LEA) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 08:11:55 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Leonardo Electronic Almanac Supplement - Volume 15, Number 7 - 8, 2007 In-Reply-To: <5d60ab0c0708172055y4f4b4642yce2285673b583eb0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d60ab0c0708172055y4f4b4642yce2285673b583eb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d60ab0c0708181711h430ab23bufd7e31198e22aca8@mail.gmail.com> ________________________________________________________________ Leonardo Electronic Almanac Volume 15, Number 7 - 8, 2007http://leoalmanac.org ISSN #1071-4391 ________________________________________________________________ LEONARDO REVIEWS ---------------- < Introduction by Michael Punt > < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski, Gloria Custance > reviewed by Sean Cubitt < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > reviewed by Amy Ione < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > reviewed by Dene Grigar < Leonardo Reviews, August 2007 > LEONARDO -------- < Table of Contents: Leonardo Vol. 40, No. 4, 2007 > LEONARDO NETWORK NEWS --------------------- < Leonardo/OLATS Awards the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware > < MutaMorphosis Conference Speakers Announced > < Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) opens new Chinese language database > BYTES ----- < Digital Humanities Chair Position available at Dartmouth College > ________________________________________________________________ LEONARDO REVIEWS, August 2007 ________________________________________________________________ Judging by the current publishing trend we are all fast approaching middle age or even our dotage: by all, I mean those of us who participated in the secessionist hey days of 'media art' and thought that art, perception, and the world would be changed by new technologies. Now we know, at least from the three MIT publications highlighted in Leonardo Reviews here, that nothing changes. After the brief wild party, the historians have come in to sweep up the pieces into a sensible heap. This is not to decry writing history, an enterprise that I hope I also have contributed to. It is merely to point out that at least as far as publishing in the field of science, art and technology is concerned it is about time to quietly abandon the word 'new' when we talk of media - even when it is willfully confused with technology. The three featured reviews below identify distinct historical methods for conceptualizing the relationship between art and those technologies that some choose to call media. Our reviewers collectively address this topic and their dialogue sets up the debate about how future histories are to be written. Histories in which the assumptions, parallelisms and the tenuous associations of coincidence of populist writing are replaced by the rigor of researchers trained to avoid the seductions of their own rhetoric. Not only in these three reviews but also throughout the recent postings at http://www.leonardo.info/reviews/books.html the maturation of our practices, discussions and reflections concerning the intersection of art, science and technology is increasingly evident. We hope that the early warning radar of this trend will be reflected in our future reviews for the benefit of the Leonardo community Michael Punt Editor-in-Chief Leonardo Reviews < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski, Gloria Custance > reviewed by Sean Cubitt Siegfried Zielinski offers a new take on the long history of media technologies, taking his readers on a tour of forgotten archives and forgotten innovators. Familiar names appear, among them a fascinating repositioning of Athanasius Kircher. By refusing to accept the normative histories, Zielinski recovers a lost trajectory that involves a long tradition of magical and quasi-rational thought from Empedocles to the Illuminati and, thence, to the late 19th century reinvention of time. Among those recovered from obscurity are Giovan Battista Della Porta, Purkyne, Lombroso and the extraordinary Aleksej Kapitanovich Gastev. In his conclusion, Zielinski not only draws together the legacy of Ramon Llull, but proposes a new cartography of media 'anarcheology', whose centres are no longer London, Paris, Berlin and New York but Petersburg, Prague and places south and east. It is a marvelous book in the most literal sense of the word, and a wonderful read in its own right, quite apart from the scholarship and the revelation of new trajectories for media historiography. One reason for this is that the book opens onto a landscape of strangely familiar if obscure beauty: the history of the magical tradition as an intellectual pathway now left in darkness, but once a shining path for intellectual and technological enquiry. Zielinski's passion for the hermetic tradition steers clear of the worst excesses of Jungian mysticism while recalling the line, from Robert Fludd to Vilém Flusser, that situates a history of media in the gnostic tradition in Western Europe. He reminds us that Newton's dark obsession with alchemy is of a piece with his physics and optics; and that Copernicus is as much the heir of Pico della Mirandola's solar worship as he is the ancestor of scientific rationalism. It is an attractive thought, that right knowing of material science sails so close to the perennial philosophy; and that however materialist this history is, it addresses, if only by rejection, the repressed chronotope of the eternal wisdom. What has always repelled materialists from the hermetic tradition is not its whimsy but on the contrary the solemnity with which its priesthood has historically erected ever more complex cathedrals of theodicy and theogeny on the intuition that something 'more' inhabits, locates and frames the givenness of the world. It is sad therefore to note that materialism has often - though not universally - eschewed any address to the sacred. By this I do not mean that materialism in any way fails for lack of a theology, nor that the sacred forms some ontological ground on which the material world is more deeply founded. Rather, what has been often lacking is a commitment to understanding that affect which we recognise under the rubric of sacredness, an elevation beyond not merely the instinctual but also the intellectual pleasures, a yearning apart from the desire for justice, peace and plenty for all. Since the term sacred has, moreover, been tainted by centuries of mouthing in institutions that have done little for justice, peace or plenty, we need another term, one that might displace the materialist reluctance to address affect in general and this affect in particular. I propose a mediological enquiry into the nature of wonder, a task admirably launched by Zielinski's book. Quite properly Zielinski calls this tradition 'magic'. It is hard nowadays not to evoke Arthur C Clarke's dictum that any sufficiently advanced technology appears as magic. What neither Clarke nor Zielinski undertake is an analysis of the curiously braided destinies of magic and familiarity. As Don Ihde observes, technologies that at their invention appear magical can, with widespread adoption, become 'embedded' and transparent, as signs written in one's native language are transparent. Embedded technologies like television, once marvellous, become the invisible vehicles of messages whose mediation we notice only when the machinery breaks down. The braiding of magic and the mundane occurs when familiarity breeds contentment. The internet is a case in point. Early adopters not only found the technology marvellous: we found it interesting. The early adopter generation tended to be computer literate, at least at the level of understanding (and wondering at) the processes of packet switching, the efficacy of html, even the duplicity of cookie technology. But for the internet generation who grew up with them, these marvels are the more truly magical because they are not understood. Comprehension of how the net works is today a specialist discipline, or the domain of nerds, and while nerds command a higher degree of peer respect than in previous generations, their knowledge is regarded as arcane, and only its instrumental use in problem solving genuinely prized. For the rest, the web, e-mail, IRC are apparitions whose arrival might as well be the result of angels fluttering in Intel Core Duos as of the massive infrastructure of satellites, fibre- optics, domain name servers and internet access points. Not only does this leave internet governance at the mercy of cultures of expertise; nor merely open the doors to the exercise of power through control of code and protocol. It can also be damned for condemning us to good-enough solutions, like web-safe colours. At the same time, this state of affairs echoes with the same magical apparatuses that Zielinski points us towards. The difference is that while embedded internet appears without explanation or the need for it, it rarely evokes the sense of wonder that Zielinski's protagonists and their audiences so graphically experienced. It is a task - perhaps preliminary, but vital - of critical enquiry to restore that sense of wonder in the face of technologies that have become banal. There is a further refinement required to the concepts of the hermetic tradition and of magic that such a project requires. Hermeticism's reliance on correspondences - on similarities held to embody a deeper linkage between phenomena at some metaphysical level - has a tendency to proliferate connections, drawing ragged collocations of words, numbers and things into mystic configurations. Pilloried by Umberto Eco in his novels, and defended as the root of radical (and contemporary) art practice by Barbara Maria Stafford, the practice of analogy can be as ludicrous as it is illuminating. Critical studies of technology seeking to induce a sense of the strangeness of their objects need to be alert to both the poetic affordances of analogy and its capacity for mystification. The methodological brush with magic reminds us that the world still has surprises in store for us. Should the word 'surprise' seem too redolent of fairground attractions, Tom Gunning has taught us that this is no bad thing. If we are to retain our capacity for amazement, we have to remain open to the chance encounter of the sewing machine and the umbrella stand on the operating table. If this encounter explains nothing, we must place it alongside more licit engines of interpretation which, it appears, increasingly can offer only approximations, intimations, abstractions of or from reality. Fractal geometry, the uncertainty principle, string theory all move away from claims to describe nature and natural processes. Without abandoning the claim to some kind of relation to reality, such theoretical and mathematical models no longer offer one-to-one transcriptions of the real. The relation is neither one of utter deracination nor of simulacra lacking an original. On the contrary, such expressions mediate between reality and ourselves using processes that often enough arise equally from natural and artificial domains. Zielinski's book traces processes of mediation that have found some material form that would allow some mode of conformation or congruence between terms. His achievement is to have noted that proximity is no guarantor of truth: the fleck in my own eye is as strange as, if not stranger than, the beam in my ancestor's. < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > reviewed by Amy Ione Technological and virtual art have become so prevalent in recent years that I find it difficult to conceptualize a world in which static media were the norm. Frank Popper's From Technological to Virtual Art chronicles the trajectory that brought about this revolution. Defining virtual art as art that allows us, through an interface with technology, to immerse ourselves in the image and interact with it, the book surveys the originality and power of recent projects and offers some historical antecedents as well. A well-respected art historian, long at the forefront of art and technology studies, Popper is an appropriate figure to present this material. Among those who have taken the art/ science/technology interface from the fringes and into the mainstream, his expertise is vividly translated into this well-documented and comprehensive study of the paradigmatic change. Here he argues that the move toward technologically based projects, largely begun in the twentieth century, has humanized technology due to an emphasis on interactivity. It is also noteworthy that many of the artists Popper focuses on see their commitment to art in larger terms. As the book details, this brings them in touch with politics, the community, and various social dimensions. Reading through the publication is like visiting an exhibition with a smorgasbord of themes, a global sweep, and sensitivity to the personal relationship artists establish with their projects. Popper sets the stage with an impressive history of technology- inspired work from 1918 to 1983 that immediately demonstrates the wealth of material packed into this volume. Accounting for about a third of the book, Part I includes historical antecedents and key figures. This section begins to make it clear that the artistic imagination sometimes finds the "right" technology through incremental experimentation. Surveying technologies that include lasers, holography and eco- technological, computer and communication art, the overview also offers a fine foundation for the coverage of contemporary technological/virtual art and artists, which comprises the bulk of the publication. Part II is subdivided into sections on materialized digital-based work, off-line multimedia and multisensoral works, interactive digital installations, and multimedia online works (net art). Covering 1983-2004, the second part examines plastic and cognitive issues, sensory experiments, interactivity, and experimental modalities more recently pursued. Well-crafted vignettes of key innovators, in both sections, underscore that many practitioners who bring science and technology into their research are sensitive to aesthetic values. What sets them apart is that formal elements are addressed in tandem with investigations of everything from politics to philosophical questions about the real, their own virtual "space," connections between the real, the virtual, and the imagined, and multisensory experience. Indeed, the juxtapositions of themes and formal goals accounts for the work's strength and power. Given its sweep, From Technological to Virtual Art is a hard book to evaluate critically. Popper shows a willingness to let the artists speak for themselves and honors their intentions by explaining their aspirations non-judgmentally. This style of authorship successfully outlines artistic histories and the movement's growth but does not contextualize the kinds of critical themes that are apt to arise in a general academic discussion of the art, science, and technology interface. It is my impression that when critical questions were introduced in depth it was because an artist brought this dimension into a discussion with Popper. This minimalistic approach led me to relish the few parts where deeper issues were more fully brought into play. One of these exceptions was in the chapter on Interactive Digital Installations; perhaps the strongest in the book. Here there is some discussion of how the transcendental approach of immersive, virtual projects (such as Char Davies) intersects with the historical view. Stepping aside from his theme driven biographical survey style, Popper mentions how transcendence, as discussed by Plato, Kant, and other philosophers who have thought about this topic, differs from the common presentation of virtual art. Including more developed commentary throughout the book on how the field has re-visited philosophical issues and artistic questions would have added a nice tension to the chapters. Overall, the book works best as a tribute to the art/science/technology paradigm and as an invitation to seek out the pieces presented. I was delighted with the background material on a number of artists whose work I have encountered over the years, and on figures I know more by name than from exposure to their contributions. For example, Leonardo readers will particularly appreciate Popper's summary of the life, inventive mind, and artistic contributions of Frank Malina. Also of note were summaries on Patrick Lichty, Nina Czegledy, Catherine Ikam and Louis Fléri, Roy Ascott, Orlan, and Rafael Lozano-Hemmer. On the other hand, even a thorough introduction cannot include the wealth of talent within this community. In this case, I was sorry there was no mention of Margaret Dolinsky's work and wished that Victoria Vesna's research, particularly with nanotechnology, had received a fuller treatment. I also found myself surprised by some of the examples Popper chose. Jenny Holzer, for instance, is not someone I think of in terms of technological or virtual art, although her neon sign projects are well known and definitely qualify as technological artifacts. Just as I was ruminating on the Holzer section, I learned that she now has new silk-screen works on display at the Venice Biennial. Her latest turn to this older technology is a reminder that as the virtual becomes more a part of the art world, artists still move in and out of diverse media, at times returning to more traditional forms. Perhaps the book's greatest contribution is its expansion of the art/science/technology literature. Popper mentions early in the book that his intention is to present the history of technological and virtual art in a manner that goes beyond the contributions of Oliver Grau and Christine Buci-Glücksmann. In this he is successful. Grau makes a compelling case that media art has a history that is receiving more (well-deserved) attention, and Buci-Glücksmann demonstrates that technological art now has a place at the table. By contrast, Popper highlights the characters who have brought about our current vision. His much-needed history of key players brings Vasari's sixteenth- century Lives of the Artists to mind. This is not a trivial comparison. On the one hand, both authors present brief overviews of the revolutionary artists of an era. On the other hand, both authors offer presentations that need to accommodate the technological realities of their time. Vasari's descriptions were primarily textually based due to the limitations in printing visual images in the sixteenth century. Although the second edition included woodcuts of the faces of most of the artists mentioned, there were no reproductions of the artworks he described. Ironically, the Popper book is similarly limited in relation to the artworks. One or two small black and white static images accompany the short sketches of the various artists. While numerous, these are a far cry from the actual installations. Having said this, it should surprise no one that the distance between an illustrated text and physical reality was foremost on my mind as I read the book and prepared this review. During this period, coincidentally, I visited Anthony McCall's installation, You and I, Horizontal (2005) at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. Although McCall is a figure Popper does not include, he could easily have found a place in the mix. Interacting with this piece, which emphasized the sculptural qualities of a light beam as it comes in contact with a changing geometrical projection and particles in the air - here, vapor from a theatrical haze machine - I could not help but think how poorly this active piece would translate if presented as a small black and white reproduction, even though it is a monochromatic work. Spending time digesting its magical qualities, as the haze seemed to continually change its "physical" form(s) in real time and physical space, underscored how necessary the unfolding experience is to our comprehension of technological art, virtual art, and art in general. To be sure, Popper's words convey that he recognizes how hard it is to articulate all that "embodiment" adds in the book form. Fortunately he did try to address this limitation through the artist list at the end of the volume, which provides URLs that supplement the print medium. Finally, it is important to underscore that a short review cannot even begin to touch on the many wonderful tidbits of information Popper packs into this history. Without a doubt, his knowledge of the field and personal acquaintance with the range of artwork discussed elevates his exposition of motives, technology, and the creative problem-solving involved in moving a piece from idea to actuality. Even given the distance between the publication and the actual experience of the work, Technological to Virtual Art (particularly with the supplementary material) provides a nice overview of the field. It would be a wonderful choice for a textbook in a course exploring the professionals who have nurtured the current art/science/technology climate. Educators could enlarge the book with the URLs, onsite visits, and other media examples that more fully convey the artistic projects outlined in the text. Indeed, and to Popper's credit, much of the material about the work has genuineness to it that came about through his extensive reliance on personal interviews rather than secondary sources. Crafted to touch upon key themes within the work and the creative problem solving that motivated the artistic imagination and technological development needed to bring an aspiration to fruition, the book is a welcome addition to the field. Those who are new to the art/science/technology discipline will find the sweeping survey offers a nice map. Those who know the terrain will no doubt learn more about groundbreaking practitioners and appreciate the wealth of detail that illuminates how we got to this point in time. Libraries now building collections that cover the emergence of recent virtual and media projects should definitely put this book on their shelves. From Technological to Virtual Art is a book that marks the arrival of the art/science/technology perspective and presents the work of many of the innovative people responsible for its ascendancy. I highly recommend it. < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > reviewed by Dene Grigar It's hard to imagine a bolder or more in-depth book on digital performance than Steve Dixon's Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation. Exhaustive without being exhausting, Digital Performance includes 800 pages that outline histories as well as theories surrounding digital performance, with large sections of the book paying detailed attention to such topics as the "body," "space," "time," and "interactivity." Along with providing a history of digital performance, Dixon addresses assumptions and critiques views taken by some at face value. Little escapes Dixon's lens, for it is a book with roots in a long-running research project undertaken, from 1999-2001, by Dixon and Barry Smith that "document[ed] developments in the creative use of computer technologies in performance." Called The Digital Performance Archive (DPA), the web-based archive included "live theater and dance productions that incorporate[d] digital media to cyberspace interactive dramas and webcasts. . . [and] collate[d] examples of the use of computers technologies to document, discuss, or analyze performance, including specialist websites, e-zines, and academic CD-ROMs" (ix). The book begins with a revised perspective of the postmodern take on art, challenging Lev Manovich's stance on new media art, which Dixon says "fetishizes the technology without regard for artistic vision and content" (5) and views that ignore the influence of Italian Futurism (and those movements connected to it) on digital performance (47). Section one of the book traces this influence as well as the development of digital performance in three periods, looking first at the avant-garde in the early 20th C, then to multimedia theater from 1911-1959, and finally to technology infused performance work from 1960 onwards. Section two concerns itself with the "Theories and Contexts" surrounding digital performance, starting with the "liveness problem" (115), then "Postmodernism and Posthumanism," "The Digital Revolution," and "Digital Dancing and Software Developments." Here Dixon critiques postmodern theories that he says "can . . . operate doctrinally to impose specific and sometimes inappropriate ideas onto cultural and artistic works" (135) - and takes on the theorists who propose them. Jay David Bolter and Richard Grusin's "remediation," Dixon says, though not a new idea (it is itself repurposed from the "disposal and recycling industries") does shed light on "inherent dialectical tensions at play within computer representations and simulations" (136). George Landow, Dixon tells us, possesses "evangelical zeal typical of the writers at the time" (137). Dixon points to Diane Gromala's utilization of Lyotard's language game to talk about new technologies and, then, Deleuze and Guttari's theories to explain her views of virtual reality and, next, to Gregory Ulmer's focus on Derrida, Lacan, and Wittgenstein for theories of hypertextuality. A whole section is devoted to Jean Baudrillard, whose nihilistic and cynical view of technology, while "seductive and compelling," is "over the top" and in the end offers a view that is for the most part one- sided and incomplete (140-143). There is a section, also, on Derrida, whose theory of deconstruction (particularly, that the "world [is] constant flux") does not really fit "the liveness of theater," which "conspires to fix time and space" (author's emphasis, 145). It would be easy to react to Dixon's critique of theory as simply as one of a Monday morning quarterback able to make better claims in hindsight than those living in the moment of action, as he picks apart past ideas, showing them to be hyperbolic or faulty. When he writes, for example, that "an inescapable fact about the progression of software is that after the initial miracle of new computer 'life,' a certain sameness and staleness creeps in through the repetition that replaced the initial awe and wonderment" (208), we have to ask, isn't this problem true for all new things? Is it just a problem with software? I say this because I remember having to explain to a roomful of college students why Piet Mondrian's Composition in Blue, Yellow, and Black is, paraphrasing their comments, "a big deal, considering that the painting was just lines and squares that anyone can do with PhotoShop." The fact does remain that postmodernism does (or did, depending on one's perspective) offer an alternative to ancient Greek philosophy and worldviews that have dominated the Western world for over two thousand years and don't necessarily work for a contemporary world that is vastly larger and more technologically advanced than that of 5th century Athens. At some point we do get excited about something new and must be able to map new views onto our new world. But the question Dixon forces us to remember is, when and which ones? But this questioning of Dixon's perspective on postmodernism does not mean that his insights are off base. Far from the truth: They are right on target for those performers and performance scholars who have long wondered about the wisdom of placing so much importance on theories not born out of performance practice. Dixon's views will be perceived as sensible and be felt as breaths of fresh air. The next sections, as stated previously, look at the body, space, time, and interactivity. There is a lot to like in the next 600 pages, starting with Dixon's position that "bodies are not animated cadavers . . . . Bodies embody consciousness" (212), to the dream quality of performance (337), to the notion of "media time" (517), to his definition of and categories for interactivity (563), to cite just a few of the hundreds of pages of ideas and insights he offers. Readers looking to consult the DPA database introduced at the front of the book will be disappointed that it is not currently available. Some may wonder why Dixon did not cite Mike Phillips' wry work concerning Shakespeare's works and monkeys but simply alluded to it (166) or question his spelling of Margarete Jahrmann and Max Moswitzer's work, the "nibble-engine-project" (611) when they themselves write of it as "nybble-engine." Women who have been working with computers for decades may take umbrage at Dixon's own assumption that the internet was populated by cowboys, forgetting about us cowgirls (160) or grrls, as many of us called ourselves. Despite these issues, Dixon's book possesses both depth and breadth that performance theorists and practitioners will find not only useful but also necessary for research and teaching. As such Dixon's book is not a history of digital performances but rather a book about the whole concept of digital performance. _______________________ Leonardo Reviews, August 2007 < Bullshit by Pea Holmquist and Suzanne Khardalian > Reviewed by Jonathan Zilberg < Cartographic Cinema by Tom Conley > Reviewed by Jan Baetens < Clarence John Laughlin: Prophet Without Honor by A.J. Meek > Reviewed by Allan Graubard < Deep Time of the Media: Toward an Archaeology of Hearing and Seeing by Technical Means by Siegfried Zielinski and Gloria Custance > Reviewed by Sean Cubitt < Design Anarchy by Kalle Lasn > Reviewed by John F. Barber < Digital Performance: A History of New Media in Theater, Dance, Performance Art, and Installation by Steve Dixon > Reviewed by Dene Grigar < Dub: Soundscapes and Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae by Michael E. Veal > Reviewed by Stefaan Van Ryssen < The Face of Evil by David Tosco, Director > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Forever by Heddy Honigann > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < From Technological to Virtual Art by Frank Popper > Reviewed by Amy Ione < Imagining MIT: Designing a Campus for the Twenty-First Century by William J. Mitchell > Reviewed by Dr Eugenia Fratzeskou < Jules Kirschenbaum: The Need to Dream of Some Transcendent Meaning by Thomas Worthen > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Mind as Machine: A History of Cognitive Science by Margaret Boden > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Native Moderns: American Indian Painting, 1940-1960 by Bill Anthes > Reviewed by Jonathan Zilberg < Notes on Marie Menken by Martina Kudlacek > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Ohne Schnur: Kunst und Drahtlose Kommunikation Edited by Katja Kwastek > Reviewed by Stefaan Van Ryssen < Our Daily Bread by Nikolaus Geyrhalter > and < The Gleaners and I by Agnes Varda > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens < Shigeru Ban: An Architect for Emergencies by Michel Quinejure > Reviewed by Roy R. Behrens To read all the reviews posted for August 2007, visit Leonardo Reviews at: . ______________________________________________________ LEONARDO, VOL. 40, No. 4 (July 2007) TABLE OF CONTENTS AND SELECT ABSTRACTS ______________________________________________________ Editorial < Research on and from within Creative Practice > by Ernest Edmonds _______________________ Special Section: The Fire Arts of Burning Man < Introduction: A Passion to Burn > by Louis M. Brill < Curator Overview: Playing with Fire > by Christine Kristen (a.k.a. LadyBee) ABSTRACT: Fire as an art form is evolving in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada, where many Burning Man artists explore the creation and manipulation of fire in their installations. Sculptors, engineers, geeks and pyromaniacs experiment with open fires, pressurized gases and pyrotechnics to produce mesmerizing and beautiful works of art. < Burning Man Artists' Statements > by Joe Bard and Danya Parkinson, Tim Black, Larry Breed, Paul Cesewski and Jenne Giles, Bill Codding, Dan Das Mann, Wally Glenn, Lucy Hosking, Syd Klinge, Tamara Li, Dan Ng, Andrew Sano, Jack Schroll, Eric Singer, Nate Smith, Charlie Smith and Jaime Ladet, Kal Spelletich, Kasia Wojnarski _______________________ General Note < The Use of Artistic Analogies in Chemical Research and Education > by Balazs Hargittai and Magdolna Hargittai ABSTRACT: This compilation presents examples of artistic artifacts that have served as successful visual analogies to aspects of chemistry. The authors have used them in various college-level chemistry classes, outreach programs and chemistry textbooks, as well as in journals and monographs. They include ancient Chinese, Turkish and Thai sculptures, modern sculptures and a medieval fresco. These examples illustrate the chemical concept of chirality, the periodic table of the elements and molecular systems such as buckminsterfullerene, nanotubes and quasicrystals. _______________________ Transactions < Interactive Experience in Public Context: Tango Tangle > by Zafer Bilda < Constraints and Creativity in the Digital Arts > by Linda Candy < Interaction as a Medium in Architectural Design > by Joanne Jakovich and Kirsty Beilharz < A Pleasure Framework > by Brigid Costello < Fundamental Insights on Complex Systems Arising from Generative Arts Practice > by C. Burraston _______________________ Special Section: ArtScience: The Essential Connection < Deconstructing the Genome with Cinema > by Gabriel A. Harp ABSTRACT: Evidence from language, history and form suggest an analogy between the cinema and the genome. The author describes some of the relationships between cinema and the genome and points to opportunities for discovering unmarked categories within the genome and new methods of representation. This is accomplished by evaluating existing metaphors presented for the understanding of genetics and revealing how current scientific understanding and social concerns suggest a cinematic alternative. The formal principles of function, difference and development mediate discussion and serve as heuristics for investigating creative opportunities. < Fractal Graphic Designer Anton Stankowski > by Vladimir A. Shlyk ABSTRACT: The author introduces an outstanding master of graphic design and photography, Anton Stankowski, as a fractal artist. Stankowski saw his challenge as inventing a visual graphic language capable of depicting natural and technological processes and abstract notions in an aesthetic and comprehensible way. Many of Stankowski's works demonstrate fractal-like characteristics. Analysis of his theory of design provides convincing evidence that this is not accidental. Stankowski used these features consciously. He devised and applied a principle of organizing forms in pictures by means of two components, branching and regeneration, both of which are properties of self-similarity and the underlying bases of fractals. _______________________ From the Leonardo Archive < Introduction > by Darlene Tong and Roger F. Malina < Caricature Generator, the Dynamic Exaggeration of Faces by Computer and Illustrated Works > by Susan Brennan (Reprinted from Leonardo Vol. 18, No. 3, 1985) ABSTRACT: The author has researched and developed a theory of computation for caricature and has implemented this theory as an interactive computer graphics program. The Caricature Generator program is used to create caricatures by amplifying the differences between the face to be caricatured and a comparison face. This continuous, parallel amplification of facial features on the computer screen simulates the visualization process in the imagination of the caricaturist. The result is a recognizable, animated caricature, generated by computer and mediated by an individual who may or may not have facility for drawing, but who, like most human beings, is expert at visualizing and recognizing faces. _______________________ Leonardo Reviews Reviews by Kathryn Adams, Wilfred Niels Arnold, John F. Barber, Martha Blassnigg, Andrea Dahlberg, Sean Cubitt, Amy Ione, Mike Leggett, Michael Punt, Eugene Thacker, Stefaan Van Ryssen, Jonathan Zilberg ______________________________________________________ LEONARDO NETWORK NEWS ______________________________________________________ < Leonardo/OLATS Awards the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware > We are pleased to announce that Leonardo/OLATS and the Electroacoustic Music Studies Network (EMS Network) have awarded the Leonardo-EMS Award for Excellence to criticalartware (Jon Cates, Ben Syverson and Jon Satrom) for their paper "likn: A Flexible Platform for Information and Metadata Exchange" which they presented at the Electroacoustic Music Studies Conference in Beijing, October 2006. criticalartware's likn project is an artware application that addresses the nature of knowledge, ideas and language in the era of globalization. More specifically, likn is a functional online collaborative environment which wages a persistent critique of the desire to standardize and universalize meaning, and offers an alternative by applying postmodern and postcolonial theories to the challenge of organizing discourse and media. The paper can be accessed online at http://www.leonardo.info/isast/announcements/LeoEMS2006_announce .html The Leonardo-EMS jury convened on Thursday, October 26 after the official closure of the third Electroacoustic Music Studies Conference. The Leonardo-EMS jury, consisting of Marc Battier, Kenneth Fields and Ricardo dal Farra, was thrilled at the high quality of presentations by young researchers during the Beijing event and the final decision was difficult to reach. The EMS Network has been organized to fill an important gap in electroacoustic music, namely focusing on the better understanding of the various manifestations of electroacoustic music. Areas related to the study of electroacoustic music range from the musicological to more interdisciplinary approaches, from studies concerning the impact of technology on musical creativity to the investigation of the ubiquitous nature of electroacoustic sounds today. The choice of the word "network" is of fundamental importance, as one of the goals of the EMS Network is to make relevant initiatives more widely available. More about the Electroacoustic Music Studies Network can be found at http://www.ems-network.org Leonardo/OLATS has established a collaboration with the EMS network through which annual Leonardo-EMS Awards for Excellence will be made for the best contribution to the EMS symposium by a young researcher as decided by a joint jury. < MutaMorphosis Conference Speakers Announced > The MutaMorphosis conference is part of the Leonardo 40th Anniversary celebrations and of the e n t e r 3 festival. The festival will feature performances, screenings and exhibitions at various locations around Prague 8 - 11 November 2007, including the first retrospective of Frank J. Malina (artist, scientist and founder of Leonardo). Scheduled Plenary Speakers at this time are: Roy Ascott Terror Incognito: Steps toward an Extremity of Mind Albert-László Barabási The Architecture of Complexity Louis Bec Václav Cílek Climate as the Last Wilderness David Dunn & James P. Crutchfield Insects, Trees, and Climate: The Bioaocustic Ecology of Deforestation and Entomogenic Climate Change Roger F. Malina Limits of Cognition: Artists in the Dark Universe Stelarc Alternate Anatomical Architectures: Extruded, Empty and Absent Bodies Victoria Vesna & James Gimzewski The new territory of nano Plenary speakers abstracts are available on line at:http://www.mutamorphosis.org Join us in Prague November 8 - 10, 2007 for this outstanding international event! MutaMorphosis concentrates on the growing interest - within the worlds of the arts, sciences and technologies - in EXTREME AND HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS. More than 60 renowned practitioners in the arts, sciences, engineering and humanities will speak about the limits and extremes in our conceptions of life, space and cognition. Feel free to BROWSE the abstracts at our web sitehttp://www.mutamorphosis.org where you can also REGISTER and BOOK your hotel at special conference prices. Please note that the capacity of the conference halls is limited. - Early registration: June 1, 2007 - July 31, 2007 - Regular registration: August 1, 2007 - October 15, 2007 The international conference MutaMorphosis: Challenging Arts and Sciences is organized by CIANT - International Centre for Art and New Technologies in Prague and co-organized by Leonardo/ISAST, Hexagram - Institute for Research/Creation in Media Arts and Technologies and Pépinières européenes pour jeunes artistes. Should you require further information do not hesitate to contact us at mutamorphosis at ciant.cz. < Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) opens new Chinese language database > Leonardo is delighted to announce the opening of the Chinese language Leonardo Abstracts Service (LABS) database, following the establishment of the English language and Spanish language LABS databases. The Chinese language LABS, organized by Ken Fields at the China Electronic Music Center at China's Central Conservatory of Music, is for abstracts of art/science/technology MA or PHD theses written in Chinese and can be found at: http://china-labs.daohaus.org The Chinese-language peer review panel for 2006/2007 includes: Ma Gang, Central Academy of Fine Art, Beijing Zhang Peili, China Academy of Fine Art, Hangzhou Zhang Xiaofu, Central Conservatory of Music, Beijing Zhu Qingsheng, Peking University, Beijing Lothar Spree, Tongji University, Shanghai --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leonardo electronic almanac alerts list" group. To post to this group, send email to LEAalerts at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to LEAalerts-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/LEAalerts -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From prashant at csdms.in Thu Aug 23 11:15:34 2007 From: prashant at csdms.in (Prashant) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:15:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Copies of Sachar Committee Report Available References: <48097acc0708221049t727da10h9330f7fbd9b5840b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007901c7e548$d5540d90$846464c8@Prashant> Full text of the Srikrishna report can be found at http://www.sabrang.com/srikrish/sri%20main.htm From geert at desk.nl Thu Aug 23 11:35:05 2007 From: geert at desk.nl (geert lovink) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:05:05 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] CCCS Seminar - 4th Sep @ 2pm - The Rise of the Multiplex Cinema in India - Dr Adrian Mabbott Athique Message-ID: <5901554e1687113cf44ea725cb5c5a98@desk.nl> > From: "CCCS Admin" > Date: 23 August 2007 2:41:25 AM > To: > Subject: CCCS Seminar - 4th Sep @ 2pm - The Rise of the Multiplex > Cinema in India - Dr Adrian Mabbott Athique > > CENTRE FOR CRITICAL AND CULTURAL STUDIES – University of Qld > PUBLIC SEMINAR SERIES for 2007 >    > Tuesday 4th September 2.00-3.30pm > Dr  Adrian Mabbott Athique >   > Social Sciences and Humanities Library Conference Room > Level 1 Duhig Building  (Bldg 2)  St Lucia Campus  [See Map] >   > The Rise of the Multiplex Cinema in India > Dr. Adrian M. Athique will provide a critical account of the > phenomenon of the multiplex cinema hall as it is being played out > within the complex spatial and cultural politics of metropolitan > India.  The appearance of multiplex cinemas in India since 1997 has > been indicative of a push to create a globalised ‘consuming class’ in > metropolitan India. Multiplex cinemas, like their single screen > predecessors, are therefore key sites in the long-running struggle > over rights to public space in Indian cities, and an intrinsic part of > the urban transformations that are accompanying economic > liberalisation. As the leading multiplex brands embark upon a massive > program of expansion into India’s second tier cities, this > presentation provides a critical account of the emerging political > economy of the multiplex paradigm. > > About the Presenter: > > Adrian is a postdoctoral fellow at the Centre for Critical and > Cultural Studies, University of Queensland. Adrian previously > completed his bachelors degree in Media at the University of Plymouth > and his doctorate at the University of Wollongong in New South Wales. > Adrian's research interests include transnational and transcultural > media reception in Asia and Australasia, the media industries in India > and the social practice (and malpractice) of cinema. >   > This seminar will be chaired by Professor Graeme Turner.  . Members of > the university community and the general public are invited to attend > this free seminar with refreshments to follow.  For further > information please visit the website at >  http://www.cccs.uq.edu.au/index.html?page=62890&pid=16094 Further > information please contact: Rebecca Ralph ph. 3346 7407 or on email: > r.ralph at uq.edu.au >   From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 13:44:59 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:14:59 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Obit: Quratulain Hyder Message-ID: <5af37bb0708230114y5a80d34al66c2e3ab096451c9@mail.gmail.com> http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\08\23\story_23-8-2007_pg3_1 Editorial: Quratulain Hyder, Urdu's greatest novelist Quratulain Hyder (1927-2007) passed away at the age of 80 in New Delhi and was buried at the cemetery of Jamia Millia Islamia University where she had taught for a while. Many will claim the status of Urdu's greatest novelist for her, and those who contest it will only offer another woman candidate, Ismat Chughtai (1911-1991). Quratulain came to Pakistan at Partition but returned to India fearing intellectual oppression, some say, after being persuaded by the Indian prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru; Ismat never came to Pakistan. India treated her far better than Pakistan had done, given her prickly temperament. She won the Jnanpith Award in addition to Sahitya Akamedi Award, Padma Shri, Padma Bhushan and Ghalib awards. The Urdu Academy in Delhi conferred upon her the Bahadur Shah Zafar Award in 2000. She was also a former member of the Upper House of the Indian parliament. She worked for a while at The Illustrated Weekly of India under the editorship of Khushwant Singh and later at The Times of India and the journal Imprint. The other talent that fled back to India was Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan, the great classical singer. Quratulain wrote the bestselling book on him in 2004, probably her last work. Quratulain Hyder became famous for her novel Aag Ka Darya, describing an inclusive composite Indian culture that encompassed the Muslim community; she leaned to pluralism rather than the exclusive ideology that Pakistan had begun to nurture soon after its establishment. She found herself being misunderstood and attacked by the enthusiasts of the Pakistan Movement, just like short story writer Saadat Hassan Manto on different grounds. Before her demise, she bequeathed to Urdu, 12 novels, several novellas, a number of short stories and numerous editorial and introductory articles of great stylistic value. Few realise that her greatest work apart from the novels was her monumental family chronicle Kar-e-Jahan Daraz Hai where she displayed an ability to change her style according to the ambience she was describing with the help of carefully collected family documents. She was descended from one Ahmed Ali who lost all his property after the 1857 rebellion against the British because he was found guilty of taking part in it. Ahmed Ali thought that the rebellion failed because the Indians who arose against the East India Company were not educated enough; he therefore decided to send his sons to Aligarh, the school-college set up by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. Her father was the most dominant influence on her. Sajjad Hyder had been influenced by Haji Ismail Khan, a friend of Sir Syed who loved Turkey and its progressivism and defiance of the British. Sajjad Hyder learned Turkish and translated many works from Turkish to Urdu, in the process developing a distinct style that made him staple for Urdu textbooks in Pakistan. He was a dragoman (tarjuman) in the British consulate in Baghdad from 1904 to 1907. Quratulain's great-aunt Akbari Begum initiated the tradition of writing among Muslim women with a novel in 1898. Her mother Nazrul Baqar, home-educated in English as well, became an editor of Phool, a children's magazine, thus providing Quratulain the literary background she needed as a young girl. The cities of Ghazipur and Dehra Dun, dominated by an easy-going Muslim aristocracy, were the early influences on her, which was reflected in her fiction, but her view of culture was intensely pluralistic, explaining Muslim culture too in a "transmigratory" technique in her big novel Aag Ka Darya. The Pakistani public paid her a back-handed compliment by making her books bestsellers in Pakistan; but most of them were pirated, meaning that someone other than her got rich selling them. She was always a chronicler, a kind of Tolstoy in Urdu that our critics have ignored. When someone asked her in Bombay to write about the Iran-Iraq war she naturally began with the Arab conquest at Qadissiya. In her story of her family, Dastan-e-Ehd-e-Gul, the dates are meticulously put down and footnotes supplied as she follows the spoor of her family's tortuous journey through history. Father Yildrim was an extraordinary man ambushed by passivity, as Quratulain says elsewhere, but his story is exciting in the telling. Yildrim wrote a new kind of Urdu, quite palpable in his famous translations, and Quratulain was definitely his daughter, endlessly gifted and different. She kept pointing to the "strangeness" of women writers of extraordinary originality in a culture suffocated by unoriginal men. Just take Quratulain and Ismat together and you don't have two men to equal them. Among the few men who were good Quratulain counted novelist Aziz Ahmad, wondering why he had been brushed aside. She recalled with great fondness the pioneer women writers of the order of Muhammadi Begum who got her mother interested in writing and whose inspiration came down to us in the last of the good writers, Hijab Imtiaz Ali, whose stature she insisted had yet to be decided. Whenever Quratulain visited Pakistan she had to defend herself — at times not too politely — against critics reading her work as autobiography. She wrote a dirge on the obstinacy of incomprehension of her novel, Chandini Begum, on the part of Pakistani critics. She made fun of the hidebound progressive writers who thought she was "bourgeois and feudal" and pushed her out of the pale of literary appreciation; and she wondered what kind of infertility assailed the critic in our times of religious anti-intellectualism. What people missed because of "the death of the ear" in Pakistan was her capture of the music of the Rohelkhandi or Pichchva Urdu, Bihari, Rampuri Muradabadi Urdu, and the accent of Amroha, that kept alive the language of Mir and Sauda. She always said that Muslims in India didn't feel like a minority because of the memory of Muslim rule. She maintained — right or wrong — that Pakistan got it wrong when it presumed for reasons of state that the Muslims of India were suffering under Hindu Raj. With her passing, Urdu has lost a great — if not the greatest — contemporary writer. She had predicted she would die on the 19th of August; but she died on the 20th. * From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 16:58:43 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:28:43 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] tair e lahuti / iqbal Message-ID: <5af37bb0708230428t4ff94060nfca446d99f963f0b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.urdustudies.com/pdf/21/12SohailTair.pdf From sastry at cs.wisc.edu Fri Aug 24 00:21:32 2007 From: sastry at cs.wisc.edu (Subramanya Sastry) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:51:32 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] news topics on newsrack Message-ID: <46CDD734.3000306@cs.wisc.edu> Hi folks, Just wanted to let you folks know about the news topics that have been set up over time on newsrack. Check http://newsrack.in IFIs (WB, ADB, JBIC), SEZs, SEZs by state, Hydropower, Mining (by sector), Environmental Clearance, Public Hearings, EIAs, CRZ, CZM, Energy (Wind, Nuclear, Oil & Gas, Hydel, Solar, ...), Dams by site (Teesta, Tehri, Athirapally, Tipaimukh, Bhakra, ....), Adivasi Issues, Sexual Abuse, Organic Agriculture, Intellectual Property, Genetic Engineering, FM radio, Right to Information, Employment Guarantee Scheme, Dam Siltation, Dam breaches & collapse, JNNURM, Water privatisation, Interlinking, Water harvesting, Farmer suicides, Informal Sector, Urban Planning, Bhopal, Narmada Dams, Encounter Killings, Godhra, Singur, Nandigram, .... and many many more ... There are over 175 topics currently setup where many topics actually have many sub-topics underneath ... so, there are over 1000 news categories currently. On average, a new topic is added to the site every week. For most topics, the following news publications are being tracked: Hindu, Deccan Herald, Times of India, Indian Express, Statesman, Telegraph, Hindustan Times, New Indian Express, Assam Tribune, DNA, Mint, NDTV, Times Now, DD News, Kangla Online, Dainik Jagran, Dainik Bhaskar, Navbharat Times, Kannada Prabha, Navhind Times, Business Standard, Hindu Business Line, Frontline, ... and many more ... Feel free to navigate the site, bookmark, subscribe to RSS feeds. The current process to set up a news topic is a bit geeky, but, if you need assistance in setting up a topic that relies on your own personal perspective approach to an issue, feel free to get in touch with me. Note that for some topics, news is archived in these topics going back to September 2005. Also feel free to get in touch with me if you want any news publication added to the current set of news sources, or if there is any news topic that you would like tracked, let me know. The tool offers tremendous flexibility in terms of (a) what topic you want to track (b) what news publications you want to track (c) how you want to organize the news ... There is nothing in this tool that restricts it to India-focused topics and feeds. In fact, there are already various US-focused topics that have been making their appearance already (Immigration, Housing, Green Technology, ...). If you want to know when you might find this useful vis-a-vis Google News or Topix, don't hesistate to ask me. There are situations where you might be better off with Google News or Topix, but there are also situations where you might find NewsRack more suited to your needs. Best regards, Subbu. From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 00:54:05 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:54:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Successfull RIK screening in IIMC Message-ID: A screening of our presentations,video's and interview of the terrorist Bitta Karate was conducted at the Indian Institue of Mass Communication in New Delhi. An audience of 50 mass communication masters students gathered with much interest to see the woes and plight of this displaced community. We thank Mr. Sunil Bhat, a student of prestigious IIMC who through his tireless efforts conducted this screening single handedly. In words of Sunil; he sums the entire event as follows: "After the screening was over we (students) engaged in a disscussion on the plight of Kashmiri Pandits. Everybody was moved by seeing the K.Ps. living as refugees in their own country. Many of them raised their voices against Bitta Karate." *Catch much more with photographs on - ** http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/* Please do leave your comments and spread the word. *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From vrjogi at hotmail.com Fri Aug 24 07:42:26 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:12:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house Message-ID: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000 in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop poisoning minds of people. Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer.... Vedavati Jogi wrote: again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations. unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because they are muslims.? Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country and the people who run reilgion politics... Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi wrote: 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.' ............................................................................................................this is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get recognition?..............................................................................................................' Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools.'............................................................................................................. this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople from both the sides have to bear the brunt. Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: reader-list at sarai.net Hello Vedavati, whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians sympathy? As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur happens time and again. you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. Think and then say! Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_registerThe idiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! _________________________________________________________________Catch the cricket action with MSN!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx_________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! Want to look great? Get expert opinion on beauty and skin care. Ask the expert! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! _________________________________________________________________ Sign in and get updated with all the action! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default From elkamath at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 08:04:12 2007 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] on the sub-prime crash Message-ID: <794971.65402.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI OUT NOW ON METAMUTE.ORG: Living in a Bubble: Credit, Debt and Crisis - Mute Vol 2 #6 Panic in the credit markets! Sub-prime crash! The new issue of Mute is on the money and online soon. In Living in a Bubble: Credit, Debt and Crisis we look at the social costs of an era of debt-backed boom now showing signs of busting. As a downpayment on the future we are publishing some articles from the issue ahead of time... http://metamute.org * Fictitious Capital For Beginners: Imperialism, 'Anti-Imperialism', and the Continuing Relevance of Rosa Luxemburg By Loren Goldner The liquidity crisis currently wiping billions off global stock markets is just the tip of a very big iceberg. Beneath the credit crunch and incipient insolvency crisis lie the economic and political crisis of the USAâ€*s global reign, claims Loren Goldner. But will this mean global depression, wars and intensified authoritarianism, or a renewed opportunity for communism? Goldner returns to the theories of Marx and Luxemburg to examine today's financial and military imperialism, and its left wing â€*anti-imperialistâ€* mirror http://www.metamute.org/en/Fictitious-Capital-For-Beginners * Risky Business By Stanley Morgan With the prospect of earning over the odds on derivatives trading, hedge fund managers are employing ever more high-tech means to calculate risk and predict stock market activity. But Wall Streetâ€*s faith in its own predictive powers often blinds investors to the fundamental laws of investment, says risk specialist Stanley Morgan http://www.metamute.org/en/Risky-Business * Waiting For the End of the World By Jeff Strahl Would a financial crisis mean recession, depression or revolution? And havenâ€*t we been waiting a long time for this liberating, or devastating, catastrophe? Jeff Strahl surveys the prophets and naysayers and gives his own take on â€*a global crisis of unprecedented proportionsâ€* http://www.metamute.org/en/Waiting-For-the-End-of-the-World * The Three P's - Private Equity, PFI and Pensions by Rob Ray As money expands, society contracts. In the UK the unholy trinity of Private Finance Initiatives, Private Equity and Pensions embodies this logic, turning jobs, services and infrastructure into factories for finance capital. Rob Ray explains how the 3 P's interact to pile up corporate fortunes and devolve risk on to the rest of us http://www.metamute.org/en/The-3-Ps * The Magic of Debt, or Amortise This! Today we donâ€*t feel guilty about incurring debts, just the opposite – indebtedness is the entry price of being a good citizen, pulling more and more of us into the global financial system. Here Brett Neilson offers some philsophical and political tools for disowning a debt which can never be repaid http://www.metamute.org/en/The-Magic-of-Debt-or-Amortise-This * Speculating on Student Debt Far from being a right, British higher education in the age of top-up fees is a commodity with a hefty price tag attached. For most students, write the Committee for Radical Diplomacy, it offers a basic schooling in debt and recasts learning as a down-payment on a dubious future http://www.metamute.org/en/The-Magic-of-Debt-or-Amortise-This * OR SUBSCRIBE HERE: http://metamute.org/taxonomy/term/3480 FOR A LIST OF STOCKISTS: http://metamute.org/node/254 ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 08:43:23 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:13:23 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Curfew Relaxed in Dhaka Message-ID: Ongoing discussion on the situation in Bagladesh here: Drishtipat http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/ Sausages On Curfew Break http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/08/23/curfew-break From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 10:20:12 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:20:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708232150l7c56ff70tf6521cde3de69c46@mail.gmail.com> Why are you all obsessed with RSS ? Who in India does not play relegios politics ? If you can name one , i would provide a counter argument. Let us discuss facts instead of being Psuedo. Pawan Durani On 8/24/07, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > > > From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com; > reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in > Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000 > > > in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really > wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims > have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they > running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like > to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the > condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better > you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop > poisoning minds of people. > > > Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com > There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far > s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are > getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in > government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists > acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS > member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer.... > > Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations. > unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not > compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because > they are muslims.? > > > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com > There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but > failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu > fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud > come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data > dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase > propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country > and the people who run reilgion politics... > > Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi < > vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims > aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. > Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee > is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.' > ............................................................................................................this > is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well > in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the > recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get > recognition?..............................................................................................................' > Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but > the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims > aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have > no right in India to get admission in these > schools.'............................................................................................................. > this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will > go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the > minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople > from both the sides have to bear the brunt. > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: > reader-list at sarai.net > > > Hello Vedavati, > > whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that > the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional > system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom > fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during > Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was > the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also > arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial > system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians > sympathy? > > As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who > changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they > changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 > million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that > would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt > alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today > such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader > Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like > ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims > in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them > gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. > Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The > high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants > in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the > demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step > to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. > > you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english > medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools > rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. > Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far > as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a > MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or > other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu > mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. > > It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP > comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. > Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur > happens time and again. > you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of > making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the > country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. > > > Think and then say! > > Vedavati Jogi wrote: > From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; > reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 > Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as > I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to > discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.Ifully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate > towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & > creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is > my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, > Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But > when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, > do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?To prove > one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with > Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority > of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan > to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ > History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells > something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to > be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him > as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi > who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even > today â€" A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable > to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah > became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly > supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah > alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in > India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the > plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what > about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out > of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the > state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in > wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & > Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon > ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I > don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of > poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to > stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ > or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights > like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with > rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not > secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of > sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to > regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped > them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their > separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism > gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very > demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ > happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is > hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> > From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> > To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't > want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your > thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And > I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in > solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your > homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate > towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my > previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been > affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or > Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did > not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate > to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated > Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. > Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you > agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on > this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate > rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may > have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear > childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, > secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the > receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral > property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in > refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in > last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being > members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he > killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then > hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they > partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my > thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri > migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to > go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: > vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't > want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken > seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). > The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> > Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so > huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came > to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go > to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to > call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born > here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you > prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But > remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> > - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority > to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the > hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). > But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir > is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to > the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits > safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces > cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take > sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us > stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any > of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I > will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, > say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, > they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take > refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this > case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in > your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your > nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still > if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I > am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete > none. Go to> >> > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> > >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign > in and get updated with all the action!> > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_registerTheidiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! > _________________________________________________________________Catch the > cricket action with > MSN!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx_________________________________________reader-list: > an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header.To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > > Want to look great? Get expert opinion on beauty and skin care. Ask the > expert! > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! > Search. > > Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! > Search. > > Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 10:32:54 2007 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf Saeed) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Holy patriotism! Message-ID: <787235.81125.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Patriotic tribute: Quran inscribed on India map (Aug 15, 2007, Deccan Herald) For Shiraz Hussain, a 38-year-old artist of Garden Reach in South Kolkata, his dream will shortly be fulfilled when he will present to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh an aluminium map of India, on which he has painstakingly inscribed the verses from the Holy Quran. "It is my humble tribute to the people of India to mark the 60 years of Independence," Shiraz Hussain told Deccan Herald here. Shiraz had laboured hard for days on end to inscribe verses from the Quran on a 20-inch x 24-inch aluminium map and make five copies of them. While the other four dignitaries to whom he wishes to present copies of the map are former president A P J Abdul Kalam, Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh, Congress chief Sonia Gandhi and Railway Minister Lalu Prasad, Hussain declined to reveal the name of another "important personality" who also figures in his list. Shiraz had gone to New Delhi twice - April and July, to personally hand over his creation to the Prime Minister before the Independence Day but had no luck. "I received a call on August 9 last from the PMO and was asked to visit Dr Singh to present the map," Hussain said. But he could not undertake the travel owing to some domestic hitches. "I hope to meet the Prime Minister soon and present him the map," Hussain claimed. In 2006, Shiraz entered the Limca Book of Records for engraving the full text of the Quran on an aluminium sheet. He is keen to make another bid for an entry into the record books for being the first to engrave verses from the holy book on the map of India. "Actually, Hazrat Imam Hussain, the grandson of Prophet Mohammed, wanted to come to India in the 60th Hijri as per the Islamic calendar, when the army of Yazeed stopped him in Iraq. After his martydom at the beginning of the 61st Hijri, his followers used to recite 'Sura-e-Kahaf', volume 15-16, from Quran," he said. "Hazrat Imam Hussain began his journey from Medina in Saudi Arabia in the 60th Hijri and got martyrdom at the beginning of the 61st Hijri. Our country is going to complete the 60th year of independence this year on August 15, 2007 and will enter the 61st year," Shiraz said, explaining the significance of his effort. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 From ravikant at sarai.net Fri Aug 24 12:35:54 2007 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:35:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Quit India. 2007 Message-ID: <200708241235.55457.ravikant@sarai.net> Scoll down for authorial details. I like the way Niyam mixes religious secular and nationalist mythology to advocate free software. Copied from: http://niyam.com/gnulinux/lfy/fy/FY-monthly-col.php?aug2k7 Ravikant ---- Quit India. 2007. August 2007 Indian Declaration of Digital Independence on 15 August. by Niyam Bhushan "At the stroke of the midnight hour, when the world sleeps, India will awake to life and freedom. A moment comes, but rarely in history, when we step out from the old to the new, when an age ends, and when the soul of a nation, long suppressed, finds utterance." Thus declares Jawahar Lal Nehru, first Prime Minister of free India, calling the end of a colonial era. I look at the calendar to note the date of this historic moment. 15 August 2007. Exactly sixty years after India's freedom from the British Empire. I must be dreaming. Let My Country Awake "History repeats itself" says a voice from the sky. I look around me. a FabIndia khadi-clad geek is busy blogging the speech on his laptop. He's word-processing in Microsoft Office 2007. I grab his notebook, click the 'File' menu and look for 'Quit' in the drop-down menu. Instead, there at the bottom I find the magic words that reverberate forever in my dreams: 'Quit India'. I click with joy and triumph. 'Deleting All Partitions' states a message next on the screen as the machine automatically reformats its hard disk. This is one historic moment in India's history that shall see no partition, I muse to myself with relief as I wander into a long train of thoughts. By the time the clock strikes twelve, all the proprietary software on the laptop is deleted forever. Gone with it are the End User Lagaan Agreements of each proprietary software, and the ugly patents and its oppressive laws that had turned man against mankind. As the machine reboots with the jubilant image of the Tux penguin initializing GnuLinux, the voice of Jawahar Lal Nehru soars in the background, calling free Indians to: "bring freedom and opportunity to the common man, to the peasants and workers of India; to fight and end poverty and ignorance and disease; to build up a prosperous, democratic and progressive nation, and to create social, economic and political institutions which will ensure justice and fullness of life to every man and woman." Digital Commonwealth As India passes through its midnight hour, hope soon dawns across the world. Emails are pouring in from colonies across Asia and Africa, roused earlier by Mahatma Gandhi's emphatic and noble statement to the colonial master "to retire from every Asiatic and African possession. ... I ask for a bloodless end of an unnatural domination and for a new era. Leave India to God and if that be too much, leave her to anarchy...." Everyone in the world just wants to know one thing: what is the price of freedom we must pay? The answer from the Mahatma is simple: Everything. If you are resolved you want your freedom, and you want the Digital Cripps Mission for OOXML to fail, then just resolve to reformat your hard-disks, no matter what the consequences. And weave your own code. I step outside into the morning sunshine. Every garden and rooftop has joyous Indians flying kites. I peer closely at the kites filling up the empty sky. Strange! They all look the same. All have similar metallic-gray colors, with rather thick kite-strings tethering them to their owners. Aha! Those are not kites, but computer laptops, thousands of them, soaring high in celebration of freedom, tied to long ethernet network-cables, engaged in friendly network neighbourhood kite-fights. "Will you just fly paper kites today to celebrate the glory of your past, or can you 'take back control' of your own freedom by flying your laptop high with muft and mukt software?" Asks the echoing voice in the sky. I must be dreaming. I wake up thinking “Yes! Your passion is your potential.” What an irony! That's really what our forefathers believed, else India's freedom could not have been possible. 15 August 2007 slips by all of us, and once more we click on 'Start' to 'Shutdown'. ------------ Inspired by the vision of Osho. Niyam Bhushan is a leading technology writer, editor, columnist, with a background in graphic design. He consults and trains in digital imagery. He has been using computers across several platforms since 1982, and loves the freedom and power offered by GnuLinux. Email: freedomyug at linuxforu dot com © 2007 Niyam Bhushan. First published in LinuxForYou magazine, www.linuxforu.com. Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article is permitted in any medium, provided this notice is preserved. In Hindi, 'muft' means 'free of cost', and 'mukt' means 'with freedom.' From hpp at vsnl.com Fri Aug 24 12:08:22 2007 From: hpp at vsnl.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:08:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Patriotism Message-ID: <004801c7e61f$a385ad50$6301a8c0@Ramaswamy> Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. "Patriotism" is its cult. It should hardly be necessary to say, that by "patriotism" I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice; not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spiritual as much as with its material welfare - never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one's country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. Erich Fromm One should add: its so easy to be patriotic and nationalist, its so cheap, it doesn't cost anything! But its much more diffucult to "do" anything. Only someone who exerts and sacrifices himself for the "nation", for others, has the moral the right to speak of the nation. Then at least there would'nt be any cacophony of sham-patriotism. V Ramaswamy Calcutta From kj.impulse at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 11:58:38 2007 From: kj.impulse at gmail.com (Kavita Joshi) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:58:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] INVITATION: Tales from the Margins Message-ID: <007c01c7e619$9adb9080$0401a8c0@hpc83f06cf59cf> INVITATIONDear friends, My film, Tales from the Margins, on the conflict situation in Manipur and the extraordinary protests for justice by the women, will be screening shortly in Delhi. ON: Sunday, 26th August, 4:40 PM AT THE: Auditorium, India Habitat Centre, Lodi Road. Do come, and please inform others who may be interested. With regards Kavita ---------- SYNOPSIS Twelve women disrobe on the streets of Manipur, in protest. For over six years a young woman has been on a fast-to-death demanding justice; she is kept under arrest by the government and is forcibly nose-fed for this "crime". Why are the women of Manipur using their bodies as their last weapon? Manipur - a state in the North-East region of India - has for decades been torn by insurgency and armed conflict. The Indian government has attempted to crush the insurgency through its military power, shielded by a drastic law that allows the security forces to shoot, arrest or kill on suspicion alone. Yet, little is heard about Manipur and its simmering trouble's across the nation's landscape. This is a place that mainland India has marginalised; that the world has forgotten. The film travels to this forgotten, strife-torn corner of India to document the extraordinary protests of Manipuri women as they fight for justice for their people. READ MORE ON MANIPUR: http://kavitajoshi.blogspot.com PREVIOUS SCREENINGS: Awarded the Silver Remi at WorldFest Houston 2007 Screened at the World Social Forum India 2006 ~ DOK.Fest Munich 2007 ~ Festival Dei Popoli, Florence 2006 ~ the IAWRT Asian Women's Film Festival 2007 Delhi and other cities. KEY CREDITS: Directed and Produced by: Kavita Joshi ~ Camera: Sunayana Singh ~ Sound: Asheesh Pandya ~ Editing: Mahadeb Shi ~ Made with the help of IAWRT and NRK Norway. As also NIPCO Manipur, Jai Chandiram, Ima Gyaneshwari Devi and K. Sunil. -- Kavita Joshi http://kavitajoshi.blogspot.com kj.impulse AT gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mail at shivamvij.com Fri Aug 24 14:09:27 2007 From: mail at shivamvij.com (Shivam Vij) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:09:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Three Day National Seminar on Interrogating Dalit Studies in India: Towards A Critical Theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c06aab30708240139t4a7903b3mf213a010a6478356@mail.gmail.com> Concept Note: Three Day National Seminar on Interrogating Dalit Studies in India: Towards A Critical Theory Madras Institute of Development Studies, Chennai, December 10-12, 2007. The Social Sciences have yet to comprehend, interpret and incorporate the struggles of the Dalit and marginalized communities into the academic discourse. In late nineteen eighties, the phenomena of institutionalising Dalit Studies, with the formal establishment of Dr. Ambedkar Chairs and Centres in different universities and educational institutions, came up as a response to the conscientisation among the subordinated social groups' and assertion of identity. This process should not be viewed in isolation but in the background of Dr. Ambedkar's centenary celebration, and the emergence of Dalit politics in the 90s. Social sciences academia has now widened the scope for new disciplines and inter-disciplinary studies to engage the complex issues arising from the socio-economic and cultural injustice meted out by the Brahmanical Caste System and Patriarchy. Thus, academic engagement with the injustice of Caste and the process of conscientisation among Dalits provide the thrust for the new discipline – Dalit Studies. It is similar to creation of Women/ Gender Studies. Not surprisingly, Women/Gender Studies, which acquired primacy and prominence to some extent in the academia, have 'developed' content in terms of method and pedagogy. This has been made possible because of the essential link between feminist theories, academic activism and coupled with other systemic facts. Regrettably, Dalit Studies, as a discipline is yet to stamp its imprint as a distinctive field of study. For, there is an appalling lack of systematic understanding of the diverse aspects of Dalit peoples' knowledge, experience and learning as well as unlearning. Dalit studies, hence entails a disjunction between academic activism and a deficient theoretical foregrounding. In 2002, the Durban Conference on Racial Discrimination of the U.N, turned out to be an initiative in linking the problem within a larger framework, in which, activists and a few academics have made a transitory attempt to understand the dialectical relation between Caste and Race. Establishing parallels with Critical Race Theory along with academic activism, offers a possibility of constructing a theory, methodology and pedagogy for Dalit Studies. The present situation has a serious predicament with the establishment of Dalit Studies/Centres either as an independent subject or within existing disciplines. Dalit studies thus require inter-disciplinary/trans-disciplinary or multi-disciplinary approaches for exploring new paradigms, questions, methods, approaches and concepts. A prerequisite for this is the understanding of Dalit both as a concept and as a category. In order to bridge the cleavage between theory and praxis, it becomes necessary to subject to scrutiny how it has been treated by social scientists. Dalit as a concept and category has its value, idea, meaning, culture and identification with human dignity opening up new possibilities besides rendering critical understanding. It is no more a mere substitute for erstwhile ascribed categories, used in academic exercise. For, the very emergence of the concept envisages a culture of resistance and assertion of the subordinated. Posing a challenge to the existing order, it propels the initiatives for the creation of an alternative paradigm as well as reconfiguring the contours of everyday materiality. In both the academic and social spheres, study of new trends requires a critical theory to reflect upon existing realities. Thus, Dalit studies have to consciously address the subconscious of not only the oppressed but the oppressor as well, because Caste is a state of mind having its roots in religiously codified laws. Caste is undeniably an everyday materiality. Most of the cultural forms are essentially those acquired, accumulated, and stored in the subconscious state of a person. To borrow Frantz Fanon's expression, it is easy to engage with the conscious but too difficult to engage with the subconscious. Therefore, Dalit critical theory has to proceed from the critical findings arrived from the process of conscientisation. As of now Dalit Studies is in an amorphous state. This, it appears, is a deliberate design exposing the 'casteness' of the establishment. About two decades of Dalit Studies in existence in the academia is more generic in nature than being critical. That the Centres for Dalit Studies are located in an atmosphere of casteness, can not be dismissed easily. It is being perceived that Dalit Studies' Centres are for Dalits, to Dalits, of Dalits and with Dalits, an explicit exposition of the prevailing state of mind in the academic world. Further, the paucity of studies on the Dalit peoples' political economy, an academic exercise, which would certainly explain the capacity to negotiate with power, explain the undercurrents in academic engagement. Indeed, in India, for centuries Caste continues to be the core principle on which people have been organised. Further, a set of beliefs and practices were created through which caste inequalities are maintained. Dalit Studies should allow for critical consideration of the caste-centered supremacies/ graded inequalities as three fold (Trident) – system, structure and an ideology. Here, a structure replicates and enforces caste-centered supremacism across the microstructure (civil society, educational institutions, media…) and macrostructure (State, Society and others). A system of (un)earned privilege, represented by a range of benefits and entitlements attendant to caste domination, developed and maintained through coded assertion of, and subscription to, caste-centered supremacist beliefs and practices encompasses many structures which work in tandem for an ideology i.e., 'systemic casteness'. Situated in this milieu, Dalit studies would require the formulation of a Critical Theory in order to engage with the intersectionality of caste, class, gender, religion etc. For instance, it has to be acknowledged that the academia is either afflicted by selective amnesia or there is a virtual lack of engagement with the literary and artistic domain of the Dalit peoples. Without exception the literary landscape of every Indian language has been reshaped and expanded with a surge in the literary and cultural productions by the Dalits. These creative reflections have to be incorporated appropriately in Dalit critical theory since, in a Gramscian sense culture is also a repository of power. The proposed three-day national seminar looks into historical trajectory of contemporary Dalit Studies in the academia. It is imperative to interrogate and deliberate upon the prospects as well as limitations, which entailed Dalit Studies for the past two decades. A few pertinent questions need to be reflected upon for a better understanding and formulation of a Dalit critical theory and a Dalit perspective. This is to strengthen Dalit Studies as a discipline, with potential for theorisation of peoples lived experience. The questions and postulations are primarily from two different engagements (a) Theoretical and (b) Case Studies, which are not to be taken as straight-jacket compartments but interrelated ones for scholars who reflect upon. • Does University/Research Institutions effect social change? If so to what extent and if not, is this a process of appropriating voices of the oppressed? • Has Dalit Studies accomplished the basic vision? • Do Dalit Studies provide necessary training to the scholars to reflect upon community/life experiences through theoretical formulations? • Do existing studies have an epistemological framework to understand the Dalit universe? • Has there been any attempt to create a Dalit epistemological notion? • Why Dalit studies have not attempted to incorporate caste and class in a dialectical mode? Does the Dalit intellectual contribute to the theory formulation? • Do Dalit studies provide space for counter hegemony? For Case Study • The features/aspects constituting Dalit Studies • What was/were basic reasons/purpose for establishing Dalit studies/ Centres? • Kind of curriculum and pedagogy adopted in the framework for Dalit Studies • Are existing Dalit Studies are foregrounded with a solid theoretical framework and if not what would be requirements? • Do Dalit studies provide a different approach and meaning than the dominant mode of understanding? • Critical engagement on Dalit literature • Who are the people (Teachers as well as Researchers/students) taking up these Dalit studies? ************** Style Sheet for Contributors 1. Papers should be typed/word processed (Microsoft Word) in double-space and only on one side with wide margins. Full length papers should not exceed 7,500 - 8000 words. 2. Each paper must have a title page which will carry the full title of the paper, the name and address of the author, and institutional affiliation, if any. The title page must also give an abstract of the paper and may include acknowledgments. 3. All tables and diagrams should be clearly produced ready for photographic reproduction, type area 125 mm x 205 mm. No vertical and horizontal lines are necessary in tables, but they should be composed in such a way that the rows and columns can be clearly identified. All tables and diagrams must carry numbers for identification and must be given at the end of the text, but the text must indicate the appropriate place where they are to be included. 4. Reference to sources/literature cited should be carried within the text in brackets giving the name of the author, year of publication and page number, e.g. (Basu 1967: 2000). Notes (also in double space) and list of references (bibliography), in that order must appear at the end of the text, after tables and diagrams. References should be listed alphabetically by author and chronologically for each author. Some examples are given below: Agarwal K P. 1975. Peasant Revolts and Agrarian Change in North India, Lucknow: Rudra Publications. ____________. 1979. 'Impact of Green Revolution Technology on Small Farmers in Eastern Uttar Pradesh'. Indian Journal of Peasant Studies, Vol.3, No.2. Dharmaraj P and S Ramaswamy. 1984. Conjuctive Use of Irrigation in South Indian Villages, Madras: Sridharan Publishers. Gupta G. 1973. 'People's Participation and Afforestation in West Bengal', in S. Chakravarty (ed.), Alternatives to State-Centred Development Initiatives, Calcutta: Mitra Publications. Pawar T. 1992. 'Impact of Rural Development Schemes on the Landless', Ph.D. Thesis, Bombay: University of Bombay (unpublished). 5. The article follows English spelling, not American (e.g. programme, not program; labour, not labor). However, where two forms are widely in use, such as analyse/analyze, liberalisation/liberalization, one should be consistently followed throughout the paper. 6. Quotation marks should be consistently single, except for a quote within a quote: e.g. Sen summed it up best by saying: 'The importance of capital in the production process notwithstanding, a distinction must be made between "foreign" and "domestic" capital'. From rgdj12 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 20:45:36 2007 From: rgdj12 at yahoo.com (roger das) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <552810.65129.qm@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There you are speaking like a true hundu fundamentalist who wants to make India hindu rashtra by blocking all the way of minority advancement by showing the excuse that some neightbour countries are creating trouble for hindus. So what even govt jobs do not offer lucrative careers the muslims shoudl represent it in good percentage to prove that India is secular not a hindu rashtra. Muslims are fighting for their representation in puclic machinery and they will continue this until and unless they make a wonderful percentage in this. BECAUSE they are also Indian and they have all the rights what majority Indians are now enjoying. Only thing is needed to mend it is the government should remove all the RSS minded people from high rank of govt organisations. I urge you to join this movement and become a secular Indian. Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000 in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop poisoning minds of people. Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer.... Vedavati Jogi wrote: again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations. unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because they are muslims.? Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country and the people who run reilgion politics... Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi wrote: 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.' ............................................................................................................this is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get recognition?..............................................................................................................' Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools.'............................................................................................................. this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople from both the sides have to bear the brunt. Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: reader-list at sarai.net Hello Vedavati, whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians sympathy? As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur happens time and again. you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. Think and then say! Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_registerThe idiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! _________________________________________________________________Catch the cricket action with MSN!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx_________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! Want to look great? Get expert opinion on beauty and skin care. Ask the expert! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! _________________________________________________________________ Sign in and get updated with all the action! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 00:10:06 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:10:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <552810.65129.qm@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <552810.65129.qm@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708241140r70505589r69e133604ba5e40c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Mr Roger Das , Does speaking in defence of RSS mean a crime . How can you ignore the role RSS plays in social works. As i believe you re from Mumbai check this link http://hindurelief.blogspot.com/2005/09/rss-workduring-floods-in-mumbai-and.html - http://www.hindu.com/2004/12/27/stories/2004122713750300.htm http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=145&page=30 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1945000,curpg-1.cms Read More ----Know More Rgds Pawan Durani On 8/24/07, roger das wrote: > > There you are speaking like a true hundu fundamentalist who wants to make > India hindu rashtra by blocking all the way of minority advancement by > showing the excuse that some neightbour countries are creating trouble for > hindus. So what even govt jobs do not offer lucrative careers the muslims > shoudl represent it in good percentage to prove that India is secular not a > hindu rashtra. Muslims are fighting for their representation in puclic > machinery and they will continue this until and unless they make a wonderful > percentage in this. BECAUSE they are also Indian and they have all the > rights what majority Indians are now enjoying. Only thing is needed to mend > it is the government should remove all the RSS minded people from high rank > of govt organisations. > I urge you to join this movement and become a secular Indian. > > > Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > > From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com; > reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in > Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000 > > > in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really > wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims > have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they > running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like > to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the > condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better > you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop > poisoning minds of people. > > > Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com > There are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far > s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are > getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in > government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists > acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS > member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer.... > > Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations. > unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not > compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because > they are muslims.? > > > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.com > There are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but > failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu > fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud > come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data > dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase > propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country > and the people who run reilgion politics... > > Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > 'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims > aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. > Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee > is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.' > ............................................................................................................this > is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well > in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the > recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get > recognition?..............................................................................................................' > Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but > the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims > aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have > no right in India to get admission in > these > schools.'............................................................................................................. > this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will > go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the > minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople > from both the sides have to bear the brunt. > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: > [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: > reader-list at sarai.net > > > Hello Vedavati, > > whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that > the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional > system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom > fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during > Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was > the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also > arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial > system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians > sympathy? > > As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who > changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they > changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 > million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that > would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt > alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today > such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader > Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like > ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims > in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them > gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. > Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The > high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants > in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the > demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step > to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. > > you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english > medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools > rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. > Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far > as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a > MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or > other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu > mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. > > It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP > comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. > Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur > happens time and again. > you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of > making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the > country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. > > > Think and then say! > > Vedavati Jogi wrote: > From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; > reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 > Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as > I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to > discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.Ifully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate > towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, > religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in > his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I > love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal > measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only > solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards > person like Yasin malik?To prove one’s secular credentials do you > think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because > he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not > want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape > violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ > History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells > something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to > be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look > upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by > Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy > prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad > Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate > fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims > wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a > reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims > stayed back in India because their daily > bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who > had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million > Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major > difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat > Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from > Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the > former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he > had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I don’t have anything > against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of > poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is > their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or > ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their > rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But > with rights comes > responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is > minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their > children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional > language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from > giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate > identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets > political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very > demanding, and when they become majority community then > ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You > may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> > Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any > sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am > honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love > to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I > feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not > the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow > countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I > understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> > hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not > affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has > been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You > may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in > India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally > suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell > me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us > use> this > forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I > take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi > wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is > very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am > talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri > pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives > are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two > of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' > by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he > worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide > to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of > muslim league> > because > they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing > my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri > migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to > go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: > vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't > want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken > seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). > The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> > Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so > huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > > outside taking> refuge in it. And > they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes > NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they > are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from > outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an > "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners > to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can > claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn > long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me > to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case > (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> > believe that the> > > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has > to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve > the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. > But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri > Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if > Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead > to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the > middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant > relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you > to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything > for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & > establish their> > > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave > your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of > your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests > are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is > applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything > which is in the> > interest of your> > country' ( e.g killing terrorists > in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to > stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of > mails everyday? Delete > none. Go to> >> > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> > >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign > in and get updated with all the action!> > > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_registerTheidiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! > _________________________________________________________________Catch the > cricket action with > MSN!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx_________________________________________reader-list: > an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header.To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > > Want to look great? Get expert opinion on beauty and skin care. Ask the > expert! > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! > Search. > > Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! > Search. > > Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign in and get updated with all the action! > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who > knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: < https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 01:39:10 2007 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:39:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Some Fractality, Some Kashmir Message-ID: <47e122a70708241309y2050d8c2ube8ce50251946e4f@mail.gmail.com> dear readers please enter my blog to see a connected image and a little text piece... http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rashneek at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 08:44:18 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:44:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled Message-ID: <13df7c120708242014x184753cv62ef8f408c645dcc@mail.gmail.com> It was a very sad day for all of us at RIK. When I should have been posting the pictures of our screening at Kamla Nehru College, which was to be screened today, I am writing this post to pre-empt another bundle of lies and self pity which the Jashn-e-Azadi team will come out with. Let me put the sequence of events straight. We had approached Kamla Nehru College for a screening of the documentary"And the World Remained Silent" and were given permission to screen the movie on 24th of Aug at 2.30 PM.We had accordingly put the date of screening on our blog. Even in our recordings of Agrasen Collge Screening we had ended saying "See you at Kamla Nehru College on Friday the 24th,Aug". Our activist Pooja got a message from the college authorities on Tuesday saying they could not screen our movie because they were booked for sometime. We suspected "someone" was playing games and trying to scuttle our screening. Accordingly we went to the forums and posted on our blog ( http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com) the news of cancellation of our screening.It was late that night that one our friends from Kamla Nehru college told us that at that same slot on the same day Jashn-e-Azadi was now being screened .Well we could understand Sanjay Kak being revengeful to the extent that he would get our movie cancelled by using his CONTACTS in the college but we had never imagined he would "teach us a lesson" by showing his movie on the same slot on the same day. How someone who has projected himself as a champion of free speech and right to expression was stooping so low as to "teach a lesson" to people who simply did not agree with his genre of movie making. Since we are not well connected we again went to people, the forums and the SARAI readers list and posted Nishant Dudha's post on Wedensday saying that someone had got our movie screening cancelled and had got a slot for his own movie at the same time same day. Sad and hurt by the attitude of the college authorities there was little one could do, since they were acting on someone's behest, someone so revengeful that he simply wanted to censor our movie from the face of the college. Since we are not known to Film Clubs, Leftist leaning one book wonders and self proclaimed champions of freedom and democracy ,we went to the Police Station next to the venue where Sanjay Kak had manipulated his way into. We filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking the law of the land by screening a movie which does not have necessary censor certificate, the Police did the rest. We have learnt a lesson, and learnt it well. Sanjay Kak is a well connected man and he can ensure that we can't screen our movie if he does not want to. He can use his contacts and his blog to generate self pity and sympathy for his movie by being a CRY BABY. Anyone can cry hoarse by saying how his right to speech is being trampled by Police and Authorities but then he would never be honest to admit how he himself uses his contacts to get screenings of his detractors scuttled. Ironic how "liberal intellectuals" behave when they feel insecure! -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From vrjogi at hotmail.com Sat Aug 25 10:25:48 2007 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 04:55:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's house Message-ID: pakistan is an enemy so i don't blame them as they are doing what an enemy is supposed to do. i am talking against psudoseculars like you. nobody has blocked minority advancement in india otherwise shahruhk, irfan pathan, zakir hussin, javed akhtar would not have reached where they are now. there is absolutely no descrimination as far as opportunities are concerned. but muslim activities in kashmir, kerala, assam clearly show that they have not changed, their mindset has remained the same and i really foresee prepartition condition again in india. i appeal to all readers of readers-list, if they want india to be really a secular country they should not fall pray to evil designs of roger das & his likes. Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:15:36 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: reader-list at sarai.netThere you are speaking like a true hundu fundamentalist who wants to make India hindu rashtra by blocking all the way of minority advancement by showing the excuse that some neightbour countries are creating trouble for hindus. So what even govt jobs do not offer lucrative careers the muslims shoudl represent it in good percentage to prove that India is secular not a hindu rashtra. Muslims are fighting for their representation in puclic machinery and they will continue this until and unless they make a wonderful percentage in this. BECAUSE they are also Indian and they have all the rights what majority Indians are now enjoying. Only thing is needed to mend it is the government should remove all the RSS minded people from high rank of govt organisations. I urge you to join this movement and become a secular Indian. Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: rgdj12 at yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.netsubjectSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:11:34 +0000in last 60 years india has been ruled by 'secular' parties only. i really wonder why these secular parties are recruiting fundamentalists?if muslims have proved their merit in it industries then on first place why are they running after govt. jobs which don't offer lucrative carrer.i would like to suggest people like you should go to pakistsn & bangladesh and see the condition of hindu minorities. still if you are not satisfied, then better you migrate to pakistan where 100% seats are researved for muslims. stop poisoning minds of people.Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:22:53 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comThere are so many organisations naming them is not a solutions and as far s the merit of muslims candidates are concern then I must say that they are getting jobs in IT sector, private companies just on thier merit...but in government jobs and in organisations where there are hindu fundamentalists acting as recruiter Muslims have no place... as you are an hardcore RSS member go and ask their ideology.....you will get your answer....Vedavati Jogi wrote:again & again i am telling you, give me the names of those organizations. unlike govt. org. in private org. only merit counts if muslims can not compete with others how do you expect employers to absorb them just because they are muslims.? Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:22:48 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comThere are so many muslims unemployed youth who were convent educated but failed to get job just because they are muslim and the recruiters are hindu fundamentalists, go n inquire i public sector as well as in private you wud come to know the ratio of muslims and hindus in employment. without any data dont shout praising the terrorist RSS people. If you find the data a flase propaganda then it is your lack of wisodn or knolwdge about your own country and the people who run reilgion politics...Pls be update before claiming your point......Vedavati Jogi wrote:'The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen.' ............................................................................................................this is absolutely a false propaganda. madarasa educated muslims cannot do well in competitive exam how can you blame hindoos for that? Abdul Hamid was the recipient of paramveer chakra, how can you say that he did not get recognition?..............................................................................................................' Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools.'............................................................................................................. this is again a false propaganda. give me the names of those schools i will go and question them.this is the way you socalled secularists poison the minds of muslims and you remain safe during riots while poor commonpeople from both the sides have to bear the brunt. Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 04:32:57 -0700From: rgdj12 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's houseTo: vrjogi at hotmail.comCC: reader-list at sarai.netHello Vedavati,whatever points you have drawn here are nice but I would like to say that the RSS people who are in the high rank of Indian judicial, constitutional system have done blunder by erasing the contribution of Muslim freedom fighter. Abdul Hamid was never got his due as a major contributor during Pakistan war. without knowing the truth how can u say that Afzal Gurur was the main culprit behind Parliament Attack, even Professor Geelani was also arrested just because he was Kashmiri, but he fight the Indian judicial system and he comes clean, don't you think that Geelani should need Indians sympathy?As far as the history is concern I must correct you that it is RSS who changed the history randomly and the recently furing the BJP government they changed the history of Mahatma Gandhi's death. You talked about the 20 million Hindus raped, killed and wounded duirng partition in 1947. But that would you say abuot the tens thousands of innocent Muslims had been burnt alive, raped, killed , cut into pieces in various part of India even today such as Bhagalpur,Mumbai, Gujarat, Calcutta, Delhi, and so on. The leader Modi, H.L. Bhagat, sajan Kumar, Advani, Singhal,Thakerey and the like ordered their men to wipe out the areas and vilages dominated by the Muslims in broad day light but still they are scotfree while the case agianst them gettting dates after dates in the court in order to save them. Muslims have all the right to demand justice against their killers. The high ranker hindu fundamentalists closed all the doors for muslims aspirants in civil services, judicial system, in public sector, etc. Thereffore the demand for rservation and implementation of Sacchar committee is right step to recognise Muslim as Indian citizen. you are right Muslim should send their children in regional or english medium shcools but the sad part is that the authority of these schools rejects muslims aplication citing reason that they wont be able to pay fees. Means they have no right in India to get admission in these schools. As far as the madrasa is concern it only teaches religious teachings and as a MUlsim they have the right to religion. why not you asked the sishu vihar or other RSS run schools to be closed where the education is based on hindu mythology leading the inocent children into darne ages. It is the RSS and BJP who plays religion politics. We all know how BJP comes into power in centre and how in states by inciting communcal violence. Dot forget to mention when Hindus become majority Gujarat, Mumbia, Bhagalpur happens time and again. you are true it is high time hindu fanatics should change thier views of making India a hindu rashtra, they cannot throw biggest minority out of the country. They shoud, give respect and equal opportunity to Muslims. Think and then say!Vedavati Jogi wrote:From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as I am also interested in solutions.I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid. I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. ( This policy prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak; here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’. It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi > > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to> >> http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register> >> _________________________________________________________________> > Sign in and get updated with all the action!> > http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default> > > > Do you get hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. Go to http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_mail_9/*https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_registerThe idiot box is no longer passe; It's making news and how! _________________________________________________________________Catch the cricket action with MSN!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx_________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! Want to look great? Get expert opinion on beauty and skin care. Ask the expert! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.Catch the cricket action with MSN! Click here! _________________________________________________________________Sign in and get updated with all the action!http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default_________________________________________reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.Critiques & CollaborationsTo subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Sign in and get updated with all the action! http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/FormulaOne/Default From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 10:51:41 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:51:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708242014x184753cv62ef8f408c645dcc@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120708242014x184753cv62ef8f408c645dcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708242221ub5f1ac0i202ebd25d6d2104a@mail.gmail.com> Rashneek , Wonderful job done to expose the person who speaks something and ends of doing exactly the opposite. Sanjay kak teaches free speach while as in his blog he moderates many of theviews which creates an argument opposing what he likes to propogate Again Sanjay Kak got screening of "And the World Remained Silent" cancelled at kamla Nehru College and when his got cancelled , the CRY BABY started to CRY. I even heard that when police caled him , Sanjay told the police that he was not even aware that movie is being screened , and he ended up again on his blog with what he does best .....CRYING..... Also I have heard that Sanjay is planning to distribute the DVD of his movie which euglosis Jihad and sepratism . I am sure the law would reach him . It's good to be liberal ....but it is even better to identify a "hidden agenda" of these kind of movie makers. Pawan Durani On 8/25/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > It was a very sad day for all of us at RIK. When I should have been > posting > the pictures of our screening at Kamla Nehru College, which was to be > screened today, I am writing this post to pre-empt another bundle of lies > and self pity which the Jashn-e-Azadi team will come out with. Let me put > the sequence of events straight. > > We had approached Kamla Nehru College for a screening of the > documentary"And > the World Remained Silent" and were given permission to screen the movie > on > 24th of Aug at 2.30 PM.We had accordingly put the date of screening on our > blog. Even in our recordings of Agrasen Collge Screening we had ended > saying > "See you at Kamla Nehru College on Friday the 24th,Aug". > > Our activist Pooja got a message from the college authorities on Tuesday > saying they could not screen our movie because they were booked for > sometime. We suspected "someone" was playing games and trying to scuttle > our > screening. Accordingly we went to the forums and posted on our blog ( > http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com) the news of cancellation of our > screening.It was late that night that one our friends from Kamla Nehru > college told us that at that same slot on the same day Jashn-e-Azadi was > now > being screened .Well we could understand Sanjay Kak being revengeful to > the > extent that he would get our movie cancelled by using his CONTACTS in the > college but we had never imagined he would "teach us a lesson" by showing > his movie on the same slot on the same day. How someone who has projected > himself as a champion of free speech and right to expression was stooping > so > low as to "teach a lesson" to people who simply did not agree with his > genre > of movie making. > > Since we are not well connected we again went to people, the forums and > the > SARAI readers list and posted Nishant Dudha's post on Wedensday saying > that > someone had got our movie screening cancelled and had got a slot for his > own > movie at the same time same day. > > Sad and hurt by the attitude of the college authorities there was little > one > could do, since they were acting on someone's behest, someone so > revengeful > that he simply wanted to censor our movie from the face of the college. > Since we are not known to Film Clubs, Leftist leaning one book wonders and > self proclaimed champions of freedom and democracy ,we went to the Police > Station next to the venue where Sanjay Kak had manipulated his way into. > We > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking the law of the land by > screening a movie which does not have necessary censor certificate, the > Police did the rest. > > We have learnt a lesson, and learnt it well. Sanjay Kak is a well > connected > man and he can ensure that we can't screen our movie if he does not want > to. > He can use his contacts and his blog to generate self pity and sympathy > for > his movie by being a CRY BABY. Anyone can cry hoarse by saying how his > right > to speech is being trampled by Police and Authorities but then he would > never be honest to admit how he himself uses his contacts to get > screenings > of his detractors scuttled. > > Ironic how "liberal intellectuals" behave when they feel insecure! > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From patrice at xs4all.nl Sat Aug 25 15:55:47 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 12:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Randeep Ramesh: India's secret history: 'A holocaust, one where millions disappeared...' Message-ID: <12822.195.27.17.187.1188037547.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> original to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,,2155324,00.html 1857 mutiny revisited India's secret history: 'A holocaust, one where millions disappeared...' Author says British reprisals involved the killing of 10m, spread over 10 years Randeep Ramesh in New Delhi Friday August 24, 2007 A controversial new history of the Indian Mutiny, which broke out 150 years ago and is acknowledged to have been the greatest challenge to any European power in the 19th century, claims that the British pursued a murderous decade-long campaign to wipe out millions of people who dared rise up against them. In War of Civilisations: India AD 1857, Amaresh Misra, a writer and historian based in Mumbai, argues that there was an "untold holocaust" which caused the deaths of almost 10 million people over 10 years beginning in 1857. Britain was then the world's superpower but, says Misra, came perilously close to losing its most prized possession: India. Conventional histories have counted only 100,000 Indian soldiers who were slaughtered in savage reprisals, but none have tallied the number of rebels and civilians killed by British forces desperate to impose order, claims Misra. The author says he was surprised to find that the "balance book of history" could not say how many Indians were killed in the aftermath of 1857. This is remarkable, he says, given that in an age of empires, nothing less than the fate of the world hung in the balance. "It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian. His calculations rest on three principal sources. Two are records pertaining to the number of religious resistance fighters killed - either Islamic mujahideen or Hindu warrior ascetics committed to driving out the British. The third source involves British labour force records, which show a drop in manpower of between a fifth and a third across vast swaths of India, which as one British official records was "on account of the undisputed display of British power, necessary during those terrible and wretched days - millions of wretches seemed to have died." There is a macabre undercurrent in much of the correspondence. In one incident Misra recounts how 2m letters lay unopened in government warehouses, which, according to civil servants, showed "the kind of vengeance our boys must have wreaked on the abject Hindoos and Mohammadens, who killed our women and children." Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas." Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands". "It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record." Others say Misra has done well to unearth anything in that period, when the British assiduously snuffed out Indian versions of history. "There appears a prolonged silence between 1860 and the end of the century where no native voices are heard. It is only now that these stories are being found and there is another side to the story," said Amar Farooqui, history professor at Delhi University. "In many ways books like Misra's and those of [William] Dalrymple show there is lots of material around. But you have to look for it." What is not in doubt is that in 1857 Britain ruled much of the subcontinent in the name of the Bahadur Shah Zafar, the powerless poet-king improbably descended from Genghis Khan. Neither is there much dispute over how events began: on May 10 Indian soldiers, both Muslim and Hindu, who were stationed in the central Indian town of Meerut revolted and killed their British officers before marching south to Delhi. The rebels proclaimed Zafar, then 82, emperor of Hindustan and hoisted a saffron flag above the Red Fort. What follows in Misra's view was nothing short of the first war of Indian independence, a story of a people rising to throw off the imperial yoke. Critics say the intentions and motives were more muddled: a few sepoys misled into thinking the officers were threatening their religious traditions. In the end British rule prevailed for another 90 years. Misra's analysis breaks new ground by claiming the fighting stretched across India rather than accepting it was localised around northern India. Misra says there were outbreaks of anti-British violence in southern Tamil Nadu, near the Himalayas, and bordering Burma. "It was a pan-Indian thing. No doubt." Misra also claims that the uprisings did not die out until years after the original mutiny had fizzled away, countering the widely held view that the recapture of Delhi was the last important battle. For many the fact that Indian historians debate 1857 from all angles is in itself a sign of a historical maturity. "You have to see this in the context of a new, more confident India," said Jon E Wilson, lecturer in south Asian history at King's College London. "India has a new relationship with 1857. In the 40s and 50s the rebellions were seen as an embarrassment. All that fighting, when Nehru and Gandhi preached nonviolence. But today 1857 is becoming part of the Indian national story. That is a big change." What they said: Charles Dickens: "I wish I were commander-in-chief in India ... I should proclaim to them that I considered my holding that appointment by the leave of God, to mean that I should do my utmost to exterminate the race." Karl Marx: "The question is not whether the English had a right to conquer India, but whether we are to prefer India conquered by the Turk, by the Persian, by the Russian, to India conquered by the Briton." L'Estaffette, French newspaper: "Intervene in favour of the Indians, launch all our squadrons on the seas, join our efforts with those of Russia against British India ...such is the only policy truly worthy of the glorious traditions of France." The Guardian: "We sincerely hope that the terrible lesson thus taught will never be forgotten ... We may rely on native bayonets, but they must be officered by Europeans." From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 17:00:44 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 04:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] tair e lahuti / iqbal In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0708230428t4ff94060nfca446d99f963f0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <898400.44751.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yasir "Thank You" for the earlier Obit of Qurrat ul Ain Hyder, and this delightful satire about Iqbal's "taa'ir". The Obit of QH is a reaffirmation of my thought that Muslims are an intrinsic part of India and those amongst them who are men and women of "substance" have refused and will continue to refuse to be swayed by Pakistani/Jihadi propaganda. Glad that some Pakistanis will get to read some more about it through the Obit. Prof Muhammad Umar Memon's version is in keeping with his reputation as being an excellent translator of Urdu literary works into English. Reading the piece, I hardly ever felt that it was not in Urdu. All the right nuances of imagery so ably worded. Since you are a person who commands respect and attention in Pakistan (a fairly safe assumption) try and have Zia Mohyeddin include the original Urdu version in his repertoire of "readings". What a delight it will be. Kshmendra Kaul yasir ~ wrote: http://www.urdustudies.com/pdf/21/12SohailTair.pdf _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 25 18:26:34 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <46CC5535.4020504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <808761.30657.qm@web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Tapas Thanks for the references. Both these Acts are better named as """"India Marriage/Succession Act (excluding Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Jews)""""" because that is what they are. That is what needs to change. Both the Acts currently cover " any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of of its forms or developments" AND "any person who is a Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion" AND "any other person domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion". Not exclusively "Hindu", is it? The Muslims, Christians, Parsis and Jews should get covered in a SINGLE Act alongwith everyone else. There should be no distinction on the basis of religion. To address your original questions; YES all references or particularities of "Hindu" must be removed. For example the "saptapadi" (seven steps) clause is ridiculous. The ruling "deity" should be the "Compulsory Registration of Marriages". A simple affirmation by 2 people in front of competent authority in specified manner that they have entered the bond of "marriage". How they confirm to each other (the rituals they may want to follow) that they are "married" is their business. The Union should only be interested in their altered "joint" state for the purpose of application of other Laws (divorce, maintenance, taxation, adoption etc) attracted by the altered "joint" (married) state. Exactly the same principle should be followed in Succession Laws. One Law applicable equally to everyone. No such differentiation as HINDU, MUSLIM, PARSI, JEW, SIKH, BUDDHIST, ATHEIST, AGNOSTIC etc etc etc etc (The ETCs cover those FAITH SYSTEMS that are yet to pronounce themselves) Kshmendra Kaul Tapas Ray wrote: The Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, and the Hindu Succession Act, 1956. Tapas Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > I would be interested in knowing which Hindu Laws for Property and > Marriage are operating in India. --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Sat Aug 25 20:08:43 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:38:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Guests in Vedavati's house In-Reply-To: <808761.30657.qm@web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <605198.69315.qm@web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra By suggesting that all references to religion in these laws must be removed (and everyone be covered under a single law) you are basically talking about UNIFORMITY, which is precisely I can't digest. Laws and religion and culture are not disjointed - they are all connected. If we want a diversity of culture, one would have to grant the right to live one's life differently from others. Or else, force everyone to become atheist and forget about religion. Today we are talking about the SAME LAWS for everyone, tomorrow someone would suggest the same culture for everyone. I believe in France the right-wing politicians are trying to codify what they call the "official French culture". Will we do the same, after we have formulated a single law for everyone. Let us respect everyone's way of living and marrying and inheriting, as long as it doesn't hurt you. Tell me which clause in the Muslim Personal Law hurts a Hindu, and vise a versa? S.Fatima --- Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Tapas > > Thanks for the references. > > Both these Acts are better named as """"India > Marriage/Succession Act (excluding Muslims, > Christians, Parsis, Jews)""""" because that is what > they are. > > That is what needs to change. > > Both the Acts currently cover " any person who is > a Hindu by religion in any of of its forms or > developments" AND "any person who is a Buddhist, > Jaina or Sikh by religion" AND "any other person > domiciled in the territories to which this Act > extends who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew > by religion". Not exclusively "Hindu", is it? > > The Muslims, Christians, Parsis and Jews should > get covered in a SINGLE Act alongwith everyone else. > There should be no distinction on the basis of > religion. > > To address your original questions; YES all > references or particularities of "Hindu" must be > removed. > > For example the "saptapadi" (seven steps) clause > is ridiculous. > > The ruling "deity" should be the "Compulsory > Registration of Marriages". A simple affirmation by > 2 people in front of competent authority in > specified manner that they have entered the bond of > "marriage". How they confirm to each other (the > rituals they may want to follow) that they are > "married" is their business. The Union should only > be interested in their altered "joint" state for the > purpose of application of other Laws (divorce, > maintenance, taxation, adoption etc) attracted by > the altered "joint" (married) state. > > Exactly the same principle should be followed in > Succession Laws. One Law applicable equally to > everyone. No such differentiation as HINDU, MUSLIM, > PARSI, JEW, SIKH, BUDDHIST, ATHEIST, AGNOSTIC etc > etc etc etc (The ETCs cover those FAITH SYSTEMS that > are yet to pronounce themselves) > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > Tapas Ray wrote: > The Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, and the Hindu > Succession Act, 1956. > > Tapas > > > Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > I would be interested in knowing which Hindu Laws > for Property and > > Marriage are operating in India. > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places > on Yahoo! Travel. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From whitenoise24 at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 21:17:13 2007 From: whitenoise24 at gmail.com (sridevi panikkar) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:17:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation-People's Convention on Salwa Judum:Civil War in Chhattisgarh Message-ID: Apologies for cross posting. Please do join and circulate further * * * * *Campaign for Peace and Justice in Chhattisgarh * Invites you to a *People's Convention * *On * *Salwa Judum: Civil war in Chhattisgarh* *4th September 2007, 2 p.m. onwards* At Hindi Bhawan, Vishnu Digambar Marg New Delhi (Near Gandhi Peace Foundation, ITO) Please find the background note attached below. We will be sending you the programme schedule shortly. We look forward to your participation. In Solidarity, Campaign for Peace and Justice in Chhattisgarh *Background:* In the summer of 2005, news reports started appearing of a 'spontaneous', 'self-initiated',' peaceful', 'people's movement' in Dantewada district of Chhattisgarh against the Naxalites, known as the Salwa Judum. The district administration claims that upset with the Maoist strike call on collecting * tendu* leaves and opposition to development works like road construction and grain levies, people in some 200 villages began mobilizing against the Maoists, going on processions and holding meetings. However, this picture of the Salwa Judum is far from accurate. The fact is that the Salwa Judum is being led by sections of local elites, contractors and traders, that it is officially part of the official anti-naxal initiatives, being actively supported by the Chhattisgarh Government. Far from being a peaceful campaign, Salwa Judum activists are armed with guns, * lathis*, axes, bows and arrows. Up to January 2007, 4048 "Special Police Officers" (SPOs) had been appointed by the Government under the Chhattisgarh Police Regulations. They actively participate in the Salwa Judum and are given military and weapons training by the security forces as part of an official plan to create a civil vigilante structure parallel to that of the Naxalites. Over the last two years, more than 1, 00,000 people have been displaced, their lives completely disrupted, because of Salwa Judum. People are forcibly picked up from their villages and are confined into 'relief camps', where they face acute shortage of food, water and other basic amenities and people are forced to live in extremely unsanitary conditions. The condition of several thousands who have been forced to migrate to neighbouring states and districts is even worse. There has been a complete breakdown of civil administration and the rule of law in Dantewada district and Salwa Judum 'activists' have become vigilantes who assert the right to control, intimidate and punish anyone they consider to be a suspected Naxalite. Cases of murder, loot, arson, rape and other violence and atrocities by Salwa Judum go unreported. The Government does not accept responsibility for the actions of the Salwa Judum 'activists', it sponsors, encourages, promotes and assures them full state protection and grants them impunity to operate as an extra-legal authority within the district. The Government's only response to Maoist insurgency has been to militatrise; step up police operations and to pit civilians, in the name of Salwa Judum, against Maoists and against each other. By resorting to such measures, the government has seriously challenged the efficacy of democratic and constitutional means of finding solutions to people's problems. It has completely failed to address the root of the discontent, the deprivation and alienation of Adivasis, which form basis of the Maoist foothold in Dantewara. Even according to states government's own figures, Salwa Judum has only intensified the conflict. *About CPJC:* The Campaign for Peace and Justice in Chhattisgarh is a campaign group formed by individuals and organisations who are deeply concerned about the flagrant violation of human rights going on in Chhattisgarh in the name of fighting "internal terrorism". We are extremely concerned by the violence unleashed by the state backed Salwa Judum which has pushed Chhattisgarh into a civil war situation and the repressive Chhattisgarh Special Public Security Act, 2005 which is being used to crush all voices of dissent in the state. *Contact us: * Email: cpjcindia at gmail.com; Website: www.cpjc.wordpress.com Pravin Mote: 011-26964946; Goldy George: 011-26195534; Sridevi Panikkar: 011-26680883; From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 25 21:52:57 2007 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh Bagchi) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:22:57 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708242014x184753cv62ef8f408c645dcc@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120708242014x184753cv62ef8f408c645dcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > We > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking the law of the > land by > screening a movie which does not have necessary censor certificate, > the > Police did the rest. > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of invitation to policing of our intellectual lives? Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of our deep fear to live life with disagreements? If police is brought in to intervene, will there be people left to argue with and convince? best jeebesh From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Sat Aug 25 21:30:50 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:00:50 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> Message-ID: <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's screening cancelled and being able to get one's own film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim is true, that is). The rage seems to be on both sides. --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > We > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > the law of the > > land by > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > censor certificate, > > the > > Police did the rest. > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > invitation to > policing of our intellectual lives? > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > our deep fear to > live life with disagreements? > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > people left to > argue with and convince? > > best > jeebesh > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 22:00:17 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:00:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , do not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts Pawan Durani www.thekashmir.wordpress.com On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > is true, that is). > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > We > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > the law of the > > > land by > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > censor certificate, > > > the > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > invitation to > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > our deep fear to > > live life with disagreements? > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > people left to > > argue with and convince? > > > > best > > jeebesh > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From yasir.media at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 00:30:06 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:00:06 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Aini at Outlook India Message-ID: <5af37bb0708241200t751b0919gb52cd0323e0e95d7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.outlookindia.com/dossiersind.asp?id=824 Qurratulain Hyder at Outlook India Aini Apa (1927-2007) Last week, our jury chose Jnanpith winner, 'Urdu's Marquez', Qurratulain Hyder as one of the 60 heroes of independent India. And now the news that one of the world's major writers is no more. Extracts from A Season of Betrayals: A short story and two novellas by Qurratulain Hyder, Translated and introduced by C.M.Naim + + Fire In Her Belly Two English translations bring Qurratulain Hyder, the legendary Urdu writer, into focus + + Annie At Her Best An Urdu classic with a breathtakingly vast canvas Khushwant Singh on River Of Fire by Qurratulain Hyder From aman.am at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 03:17:59 2007 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:17:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. Best A. On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , do > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > Pawan Durani > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > is true, that is). > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > the law of the > > > > land by > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > censor certificate, > > > > the > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > invitation to > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > our deep fear to > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > people left to > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > best > > > jeebesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 09:31:03 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:31:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmir: Foreign invaders seek independence? - Rashneek Kher Message-ID: Kashmir: Foreign invaders seek independence? - Rashneek Kher *Is the pseudo-intellectual brigade right in alleging that alienation of the Kashmiri masses is the reason for insurgency in Kashmir? They should realise that those who are seeking independence for Kashmir are themselves foreign invaders-cum-rulers*. THE PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL brigade of our nation often cites alienation of the Kashmiri masses as the reason for the armed insurgency in Kashmir. As a result of this, we Kashmiris living outside the State are often left to answer a barrage of questions ranging from, what exactly is wrong in Kashmir to who do you side with; ubiquitous and seemingly intelligent *jhollawallas*(an extinct breed of communists elsewhere, to be seen only in India) asking why doesn't India let go of Kashmir if the people don't want to stay with India. Being no historian of any repute whatsoever, I decided to write what can be a layman's guide to the genesis of the Kashmir crisis and the independence issue. Unlike other Islamic invasions like that of Iran, Kashmir did not have armies of Arabs or Turks marching into Kashmir. Zulchu entered Kashmir in the early spring of 1323 A D to raid it and not to rule it. This is evident from the fact that when his armies marched back (with women and children as slaves) they were caught in a snowstorm, which killed all of them. The conversion of Rinchan Lama (who defeated Suhdev's general Rama Chand by treachery) to Islam was a turning point in the history of Kashmir. There are various theories on how Rinchan (1324-26 AD) converted to Islam but the most plausible one seems to be that Bulbul Shah (a zealot of the Shah Ne'matullah Wali sect) converted him to Islam. Thus Rinchan was the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir, apart from being a foreigner. We must not fail to mention the role of Shams-ud-din (Shah-Mir 1341-45 D) who visited Kashmir as a dervish, killed associates of Kota Rani (wife of Rinchan) and usurped the crown later. Thus Kashmir began to be ruled by invaders and its natives lost their independence. The next notable king was Shihabu'd-Din (1360-1378 AD, grandson of Shams-ud-din) about whom the famous Persian Text Bahiristan-i-Shahi says: (and I quote) "Towards the fag end of his life, he was infused with a zeal for demolishing idol-houses and destroying the temples and idols of the infidels. He destroyed the massive temple at Beejeh Belareh (Bijbehara). He had designs to destroy all the temples and put an end to the entire community of the infidels. But death overtook him in the year A.H. 780 (A.D 1378)." This was the beginning of miseries for the people of Kashmir. The rather notorious role of Sayyid Ali Hamdani (popularly called Shah-i-Hamdan in Kashmir by Muslims) in changing the mindset of foreign Muslim invaders-cum-rulers from fairly benign to extremely fanatic Muslims is clear from the fact that he asked Sultan-Qutubdin to impose Shariah (Islamic Laws) in Kashmir. About Sayyid Ali Hamdani, Bahiristan-i-Shahi says (and I quote): "Again it needs to be recorded that for some of the time which the holy Amir spent in Kashmir he lived in a sarai at 'Alau'd-Din Pora. At the site where his khanqah was built, there existed a small temple, which was demolished so he could offer namaz (prayer) five times a day and recite portions of the Quran morning and evening. Sultan Qutbu'd-Din occasionally attended these congregational prayers." I am choosing a Muslim source to quote, for, it lends credence to the fact that such demolitions were glorified and even considered righteous by the Muslim rulers, historians and the Amirs. After the death of Sultan-Qutubdin, he was succeeded by his son Sultan Sikandar, who needs no introduction. "Sikandar But-shikan or Sikandar the Iconoclast" burnt or destroyed as many temples as he could lay his hands on. He killed thousands of Hindus and converted lakhs of them. One significant detail is that three kharwars (one kharwar is approximately equal to eighty kilograms) of Hindu ceremonial thread (zunnar) were burnt by Sultan Sikandar. (Tarikh-i-Hasan Khuihami, Pir Ghulam Hasan, Vol II, RPD,* Srinagar 1954.). His period was a period of utter darkness and barbarism in the history of Kashmir. This is what historians (mostly Muslims) have to say about him. "He [Sikandar] prohibited all types of frugal games. Nobody dared to commit acts which were prohibited by the Sharia. The Sultăn was constantly busy in annihilating the infidels and destroyed most of the temples..." (Haidar Malik Chădurăh: Tărîkh-i-Kashmîr; edited and translated into English by Razia Bano, Delhi, 1991, p. 55.) "[He] strove to destroy the idols and temples of the infidels. He got demolished the famous temple of Mahădeva at Bahrăre. The temple was dug out of its foundation and the hole (that remained) reached the water table. Another temple at Jagdar was also demolished… Răjă Alamădat had got a big temple constructed at Sinpur. (...) The temple was destroyed [by Sikandar]." (Khwăjah Nizămu'd- Dîn Ahmad bin Muhammad Muqîm al-Harbî: Tabqăt-i-Akbarî translated by B. De, Calcutta, 1973) "Sikander burnt all books the same way as fire burns hay". "All the scintillating works faced destruction in the same manner that lotus flowers face with the onset of frosty winter." (Srivara, Zaina Ra-jtarangini). Many mosques were constructed from the debris of vandalised Hindu temples. Iskandarpora was laid out on the debris of the destroyed temples of Hindus. In the neighbourhood of the royal palace in Iskandarpora, the Sultan destroyed the temple of Maha Shri, which had been built by Pravarasena and another one built by Tarapida. The material from these was used for constructing a Jami' mosque in the middle of the city. Most of the Hindus fled the valley of Kashmir in order to protect their religion, women and children. This was the first forced migration of Hindus from Kashmir. Thus the first steps of pan-Islamization or conversion of Dar-ul-Harb to Dar-ul-Islam were taken and a strong base was laid for the foreign invaders-cum-rulers to follow. However the rule of Sultan Zaina-ul-abidin (Badshah) was a period of glory and prosperity for Kashmir. He rebuilt a lot of temples and appointed scholars to re-write Hindu scriptures and texts. A lot of Sanskrit texts were translated to Persian and vice-versa. Peace and great scholars returned to Kashmir. Ancient rituals and the customs of the land of Kashmir were revived. Islam and Hinduism lived in harmony alongside. In terms of Zain-ul-abidin's achievements his reign can be compared to the reign of the greatest ruler of Kashmir, Lalit-Aditya-Muktapida. His reign lasted fifty-two years. With the sad demise of the great leader of men and the torchbearer of secularism, forces of fanaticism came to the fore again. There was constant infighting between various contenders for the crown of Kashmir. All the contenders, despite their differences, were cruel and unjust to Hindus. The following quote from Baharistan-i-Shahi justifies that. "With support from some more kings, the infidels flourished day after day. But with the support and authority of Malik Musa Raina, Amir Shamsu'd-Din Mu-hammad undertook wholesale destruction of all those idol-houses as well as the total ruination of the very foundation of infidelity and disbelief. On the site of every idol-house he destroyed, he ordered the construction of a mosque for offering prayers after the Islamic manner. The idolatry and heresy that existed before his arrival were effectively replaced by his preaching and propagation of Islamic laws and practices. He brought honour to all the infidels and heretics (zandiqa) of Kashmir by admitting them to the Islamic faith and bestowed upon them many kinds of rewards and benefaction. It is publicly known and emphatically related that during his life-time, with the virtuous efforts and elaborate arrangements made by the fortunate Malik Musa Raina, 24,000 families of staunch infidels and stubborn heretics were ennobled by being converted to Islam. It is difficult to compute the number of people who had hitherto indulged in corrupt practices of a wrong (false) faith and dissent and were put on the right track under the proper guidance of Mir Shamsu'd-Din 'Iraqi." Not to be fazed and bored by too much of history the point that I am trying to make is that the Arabs, Afghans and Persians conquered our land for centuries, killed the natives much like the Europeans who created America by killing the Red Indians, destroyed temples and other great institutions like libraries and ancient houses of learning, subjugated the language of the land and imposed alien languages are now asking for independence of the very land that simply does not belong to them. That to my ignorant mind is the genesis of the problem, though self-proclaimed intellectuals like self-styled commanders would argue the opposite with pen and gun respectively. The leaders of Hurriyat want us to believe two things - one that they are the true representatives of the people of Kashmir, two, the people of Kashmir want independence from the Indian dominion. That we are so used to strange happenings in the State we may believe the most absurd to be the norm, yet on both these counts our mental faculties would reason us to believe otherwise. Hurriyat is an amalgamation of fundamentalist religious parties of a certain faith alone. People whose ancestors were not natives head most of the constituents of the Hurriyat; they entered the State as invaders or religious preachers with political motives. Thus we have a group of people, mostly foreigners, representing a certain faith, which happens to be Islam in this case. That puts a big question mark on its so-called representative character. As for people of Kashmir (even if we consider only Muslims to be the citizens of Kashmir) desiring independence, why on earth they stood in long queues at the last assembly elections to exercise their franchise? I am referring to the last elections only because they were considered free and fair not just by national agencies but reputed international agencies too. Besides if Hurriyat is the true representative of the people of Kashmir as they want us to believe I wonder what the Congress, PDP and other political parties are. Are the people so naive that they voted them to power despite a strong threat from terrorists to kill anyone who voted? The separatists by themselves are no force to reckon with. That's why Pakistan is supporting them with men, material and money to carry out subversive activities within the State. Only a weak cause has to be supported by brute force, which can be testified by the earlier attempts of rulers of non-Kashmiri descent. Why did Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela not need terrorists to support freedom movements in their respective nations? The garb of independence subtly hides the wolf of Pan-Islamic expansion. It is about time, we called the separatists' bluff. Let them show their representative strength first and then claim to be the true representatives of people and torchbearers of the sponsored freedom struggle. While genuine grievances of the people of all the regions of the State should be addressed, terrorism and its traders should be sternly dealt with for what they are - no better than ordinary criminals. Thus is the layman's guide to the genesis and issue of independence in Kashmir. Read the article at Merinews Picks : http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=126078 *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From daisyhasan at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 26 10:28:41 2007 From: daisyhasan at yahoo.co.uk (Daisy Hasan) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:58:41 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Query for Jyotirmoy Ghosh In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <530878.79054.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Jyotirmoy Ghosh, the director of International Publications in West Bengal, appealed for some information in the Morning Star (25th August 2007).He did not give any contact details though. I would be grateful if any one has any idea about how to contact him or has the contact details for International Publications. His contact details are not available on the internet. Best Wishes! Daisy Hasan --------------------------------- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 10:31:27 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:31:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK Message-ID: > > Its indeed sad to see when at one point some people cry about freedom of > expression and on the other side scuttle the the same freedom of the other > viewpoint on the same issue. Doesn't this reflect some kind of insecurity in > the mind of the conspirator ? With the events going on for past few months its somewhat clear that this so called director tries his best to gain sympathy by his "CRY BABY" attitude on his Moderated Blog. Incidently, his last line on one of his recent post claim - "Abuse will have to tricle down elsewhere' whereas its his own habbit now to be abusive in many of his posts in desperate frustration. Maybe, someone isn't too happy with him. Yasin Malik and Sanjay Kak, how synonmys have these two names become over the last few months. Its quite clear that the brainchild of Safar-e-azadi and Jashn-e-azadi are the same. Just that one is the puppet and the other its thread puller. I may even start getting threatning calls from terrorists after typing truth here in this post. But, that is how the contacts of this "individual" work. His idea of Freedom of Expression and Press is confined to his own playground. He does not want others to enjoy that right. Can screenings only be done by "media savy Directors"; and not by the common people and activists fighting for their rights. How tragic can this get ? Aditya Raj Kaul www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 10:41:58 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:41:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> References: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708252211h67e54fedg1989b242b6d3f1e7@mail.gmail.com> Aman Sethi , I would provide the list very soon. Also reveal the name of the "financer" of Sanjay Kak's movie. Yes , i have my sources and they are from the "media" only . And they belong to Kashmir only, few of them had been my classmates for years and they narrate me stories of how Kak is being used by likes of ....... Pawan Durani On 8/26/07, Aman Sethi wrote: > > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > Best > A. > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , > do > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > Pawan Durani > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > is true, that is). > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > the law of the > > > > > land by > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > the > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > invitation to > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > our deep fear to > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > people left to > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > best > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From blauloretta at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 11:29:41 2007 From: blauloretta at yahoo.com (Gustaff Harriman Iskandar) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Nu-Substance Festival 2007: Final Round, Bandung - Indonesia Message-ID: <716964.88314.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> After having a huge success for series of program and activities in the last two rounds of Nu-Substance Festival 2007, Common Room Networks Foundation in collaboration with Fastforward Records presents the final round of Nu-Substance Festival 2007. Following its previous events, this time the festival is equipped with another series of DIY media workshop, multimedia performance, electronic music concert and party events that presents a wide range of artists, designer, programer and musicians from the field of electronic music and media arts. PARTICIPANTS: Tranquility (BDG/INA), DASA (BDG/INA), DMZ (BDG/INA), Xonad (BDG/INA), Java Bass (JKT/INA), Nightmare Eclectic (BDG/INA), DxxxT (BDG/INA), Marine (BDG/INA), Egga (BDG/INA), Cheyenne (JKT/INA), Chainsmokingbastard (BDG/INA), Erik M. Pauhrizi (BDG/INA), Gigi Priadji (BDG/INA), Indra Nugraha (BDG/INA), Sir Dandy (BDG/INA), Ryan Koesuma (BDG/INA), Bramantya Rachman (BDG/INA) & Asosiasi Desain Grafis Indonesia/ ADGI (JKT/INA) PROGRAM SCHEDULE & ACTIVITIES Friday, 31st of August 2007, 18.30 – 21.00 WIB Common Room, Jl. Kyai Gede Utama No: 8 REALTIME CINEMA PROJECT: REALITIES.RMX Featuring: Chainsmokingbastard (Biosampler/ UVG), Erik M. Pauhrizi, Gigi Priadji (Souldelay) & Indra Nugraha (Souldelay) **Free admission with limited seat (For reservation please call Common Room, +62.22.70800620) Saturday, 1st of September 2007, 15.30 – 17.30 WIB Common Room, Jl. Kyai Gede Utama No: 8 DIY Media Workshop (Podcasting, Multimedia Blogging and Graphic Design) Featuring: Ryan Koesuma (www.deathrockstar.info), Bramantya Rachman (www.qinkqonk.com), Sir Dandy (www.monikceltic.com) & Asosiasi Desain Grafis Indonesia (ADGI) **Free admission with limited seat (For reservation please call Common Room, +62.22.70800620) Saturday, 1st of September 2007, 22.00 – 03.00 WIB Kyooki Lounge, Jl. Braga No: 21 Electronic Music Gathering Featuring: Tranquility (BDG/INA), DASA (BDG/INA), DMZ (BDG/INA), Xonad (BDG/INA) & Java Bass (JKT/INA) Sunday, 2nd of September 2007, 15.30 – 17.30 WIB Common Room, Jl. Kyai Gede Utama No: 8 Public Discussion Featuring: Chainsmokingbastard (Biosampler/ UVG), Erik M. Pauhrizi, Gigi Priadji (Souldelay) & Indra Nugraha (Souldelay) **Free admission with limited seat (For reservation please call Common Room, +62.22.70800620) Sunday, 2nd of September 2007, 18.30 – 22.30 WIB Common Room, Jl. Kyai Gede Utama No: 8 Costume Party: Protean Calling!!! Featuring: Marine (BDG/INA), Egga (BDG/INA), Nightmare Eclectic (BDG/INA), Cheyenne (JKT/INA) & DxxxT (BDG/INA) **Free admission with limited seat (For reservation please call Common Room, +62.22.70800620) For more information please call Common Room at +62.22.70800620 or visit us at Jl. Kyai Gede Utama No. 8, Bandung - Indonesia URL: www.commonroom.info This program is being initiated by Bandung Center for New Media Arts/Common Room Networks Foundation and suported by Arts Networks Asia (www.artsnetworkasia.org), a group of independent artist , cultural workers and arts activists primarily from Southeast Asia that encourages and supports regional artistic collaboration as well as develops managerial and administrative skills within Asia. Gustaff H. Iskandar Head of Research & Development Bandung Center for New Media Arts/Common Room Networks Foundation http://commonroom.info/ http://projektheterologia.wordpress.com/ --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From shveta at sarai.net Sun Aug 26 12:00:08 2007 From: shveta at sarai.net (Shveta) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:00:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70708252211h67e54fedg1989b242b6d3f1e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70708252211h67e54fedg1989b242b6d3f1e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D11DF0.3030802@sarai.net> > I would provide the list very soon. Also reveal the name of the "financer" > of Sanjay Kak's movie. > Hello, The pace and logic of comic books is structured around the presence of that "mastermind with a diabolical interest" who is behind every social act. It's interesting how this keeps returning in our thought processes, taking away the possibility that individuals could be responding to the world as they have encountered, seen and thought it. It now becomes interesting for me to return to my friend Amitabh's research on comic books, to understand his reading about the recurrance of this trope of the mastermind in Raj Comics. Meanwhile, an extract from his notes, shared in another context: But soon there were other changes in the Nagraj narrative. The locally oriented villains were replaced by a brand of miscreants best called the ‘super villains’. With moves that could match any superhero, the laser gun and magic stick wielding villains had nothing but world control on their agenda. These were usually Kingpins... In Nagraj, there had to be a reason or a figure behind everything. A person who is the prime villain behind everything. That person is the main villain. He is the super villain who can't ever die... Nagraj was subsequently seen fighting the likes of Miss Killer, a Japanese scientist with ambitions of world control and Thodanga, an African warlord amongst many other ‘super villains’. warmly shveta From patrice at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 26 12:51:26 2007 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:21:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Brazil after 70 - The cure for the world's biggest hangover Message-ID: <8859.81.78.107.169.1188112886.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> For those who were curious how Gilberto Gil got his ideas about freedom (and free software) original to: http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/alexispetridis/story/0,,2154726,00.html Various artists, Brasil 70: After Tropicalia (CD) or how Brazil's repressive regimegave rise to its most liberated music Alexis Petridis Friday August 24, 2007 Guardian As Withnail and I draws to its doleful close, drug dealer Danny begins waxing lyrical on the waning of the 60s. "We're six days from the end of this decade, and there's gonna be a lot of refugees," he nods. In a line cut from the film, he extrapolates further, with more prescience than you'd expect from a man who previously announced that all hairdressers are in the employ of the government: "We're about to witness the world's biggest hangover." Nowhere in the world was that hangover more acutely felt than in Brazil. The psychedelic adventurers of other countries had to cope with acid casualties and police busts and grim shadow of prog rock, but Brazil's Tropicálistas had a military junta and the Fifth Institutional Act to contend with. The latter, introduced in December 1968, outlawed all political opposition, suspended habeas corpus and censored all press and culture. It was not an environment in which the LSD-soaked musical anarchy of Tropicália was likely to thrive, and so it proved: two weeks after the Fifth Institutional Act was introduced, the movement's leading lights, Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil, were arrested without charge, imprisoned in solitary confinement for two months, released, placed under house arrest then expelled from the country. Suddenly, the activities of the Met's drug squad and the News of the World giving the denizens of London's "Hippy Vice Den" the UFO club a thin time of it seems terribly small beer. Brasil 70 documents what happened next to Brazilian music - although it seems faintly miraculous that anything worth listening to did happen. Military dictatorships are notoriously good at some things - they're fantastic at making people disappear - but they're hardly famed for encouraging great art: by 1970, the songwriter and dramatist Chico Buarque estimated that only one in three of his songs was getting past the censors, a situation the censors remedied a few years later by automatically banning anything he wrote. But Brasil 70 unearths a fascinating refusenik musical world, hitherto overlooked in Britain, of artists gamely trying to bend inflexible rules, prepared to run the risk of prison and torture in the process. The latter was a real threat. Even former Os Mutantes vocalist Rita Lee ended up under house arrest, despite the fact that on the evidence of 1976's Corista de Rock she had long abandoned acid-induced eccentricity in favour of distinctly unsubversive-sounding AOR (in fairness, she'd probably had enough acid-induced eccentricity to last her a lifetime during her brief marriage to Mutantes' own Syd Barrett figure, Arnaldo Baptista). No wonder Alecu Valenca sounds so nervous as he yelps his way through the disturbing Punhal de Prata, surrounded by fidgety guitars and strings. It's a world that simultaneously seems strangely familiar and deeply alien. You can draw parallels with contemporary European and North American rock, but they don't hold up for long. Secos y Molhados offered a kind of Sao Paulo glam, with the attendant make-up and sexual confusion - their track Amor has high-pitched vocals and campy lisping sibilants - but their notion of androgyny didn't extend to shaving their beards. Like Jimmy Page and David Bowie, Raul Sexias was intrigued by Aleister Crowley, but unlike Page or Bowie, his interest landed him in prison: if the authorities were prepared to let him release the cheeringly berserk Mosca Na Sopa, an invigorating splurge of distorted vocals, buzzing synthesisers and funkily clattering percussion that keeps unexpectedly breaking into a few bars of chugging rock'n'roll, they took a dimmer view of his plans to set up a Crowley-inspired commune. Like their British and American counterparts, a lot of Brazilian musicians opted to abandon cities in favour of bucolic commune-dwelling: the CD booklet pictures one of them, Os Novos Baianos, a veritable riot of beards and babies, looking like sun-kissed cousins of the Incredible String Band. But the smiles, dandled kids and Tinindo Trincando's carefree fusion of samba and Hendrix guitar all cover up a more serious purpose. For the Brazilians, "getting it together in the country" wasn't a hippy affectation, but a matter of necessity: in a rural locale, the military police were less likely to come knocking. There's a lot of bravery on display during Brasil 70, but you can admire someone's bravery without necessarily wanting to hear them sing. Happily, Brasil 70's strength lies less in the stories it tells than the music it contains, which for the most part would sound fantastic regardless of the circumstances in which it was made. Gal Costa's horn-laden funk, the romantic swoon of Nelson Angelo and Joyce's two tracks, the nagging, cyclical melody of Jaime Alen and Nair de Candia's Passara: this is music to lose yourself in, which was presumably the point for the people who made it and bought it first time around. It may have been the cure for the world's biggest hangover, but it turns out to have tasted surprisingly sweet. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 13:26:57 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:26:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <46D11DF0.3030802@sarai.net> References: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> <316878.93768.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> <6b79f1a70708250930l5e611471ve0771177fddf59e0@mail.gmail.com> <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70708252211h67e54fedg1989b242b6d3f1e7@mail.gmail.com> <46D11DF0.3030802@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708260056p5b915f17p53d7510ee719788a@mail.gmail.com> Shveta , Thanx for the comic relief. There serious talk needs serious questions. Pawan On 8/26/07, Shveta wrote: > > > > I would provide the list very soon. Also reveal the name of the > "financer" > > of Sanjay Kak's movie. > > > > Hello, > > The pace and logic of comic books is structured around the presence of > that "mastermind with a diabolical interest" who is behind every social > act. It's interesting how this keeps returning in our thought processes, > taking away the possibility that individuals could be responding to the > world as they have encountered, seen and thought it. > > It now becomes interesting for me to return to my friend Amitabh's > research on comic books, to understand his reading about the recurrance > of this trope of the mastermind in Raj Comics. > > Meanwhile, an extract from his notes, shared in another context: > > But soon there were other changes in the Nagraj narrative. The locally > oriented villains were replaced by a brand of miscreants best called the > 'super villains'. With moves that could match any superhero, the laser > gun and magic stick wielding villains had nothing but world control on > their agenda. These were usually Kingpins... In Nagraj, there had to be > a reason or a figure behind everything. A person who is the prime > villain behind everything. That person is the main villain. He is the > super villain who can't ever die... Nagraj was subsequently seen > fighting the likes of Miss Killer, a Japanese scientist with ambitions > of world control and Thodanga, an African warlord amongst many other > 'super villains'. > > warmly > shveta > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 15:48:27 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <317242.50854.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Aman For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's rather)? Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated questions arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with passion about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his experience. "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite?". You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces should have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly happened'. If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, you Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That would be journalism. Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. Kshmendra Kaul AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships without having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones who should report/inform. Aman Sethi wrote: As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. Best A. On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , do > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > Pawan Durani > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > is true, that is). > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > the law of the > > > > land by > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > censor certificate, > > > > the > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > invitation to > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > our deep fear to > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > people left to > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > best > > > jeebesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 26 16:38:19 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:38:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled Message-ID: <27eb9aa43d8951987f9bb4749f291c22@sarai.net> Dear All, (from an 'urban indian intellectual', especially, but not only, to mystics living in rural Mars, rural Mars being a state of mind in the heart of metropolitan Delhi) A few days ago, a flurry of postings began, once again, on this list (and elsewhere) around screenings (or the prevention of screenings) of the film 'Jashn-e-Azadi', this time accompanied by reports that screenings of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' were being planned precisely in order to suppress and or supplant the screening of another film - ''And the World Remained Silent' by one Ashok Pandit. It was stated in one such posting (Rashneek Kher, quoting/forwarding Nishant Dudha on the 22nd of August, Sarai Reader List,'Liberals or Hypocrites by Nishant Dudha'>) that entities which the poster/writer defined as 'Urban Indian Intellectuals', who (according to the poster) 'proudly declare themselves liberal and claim themsleves to be the reason for the Indian nation state and everything that India stands for', are guilty of hypocrisy in supporting the freedom of one film to be exhibited, and suprressing the freedom of another to be shown. These are serious charges. And need to be addressed seriously. And I hope to contribute to a serious discussion of these charges through this and subsequent postings. Right now, I am going to discuss the implications of the fact that a group of citizens in Delhi have decided that they have the authority to tell the police to take steps to prevent a screening that is yet to take place because of their understanding that the screeing will violate the law, specifially the provisions of the Indian Cinematograph Act. We know this from Rashneek Kher's subsequent posting made on the Sarai Reader List on August 25 - - where he writes - "...we went to the Police Station next to the venue where Sanjay Kak had manipulated his way into (sic). We filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking the law of the land by screening a movie which does not have necessary censor certificate, the Police did the rest." I hope that you all notice the smugness of the expression, "the Police did the rest". Notice, also that the person (Rashneek Kher) who had earlier so piously stated that although he thought that 'Jashn-e-Azadi' was a film he thouroughly disapproved of, and that the public disruption of whose screenings was something he tacitly endorsed, he still did not agree (with Aditya Raj Koul) that it should be disallowed by police intervention in a posting made on this list on the 31st of July. See, his posting (31/7/07). Within the space of less than a month, he (Rashneek Kher) has gone from quoting Voltaire to defend the freedom of those he disagrees with to proudly narrating to us all as to how he and others (the 'we' of his posting) went and complained to the police in Delhi to stop a screening. These gentlemen believe that the law (like the consistency of their own position vis-a-vis free speech) is in their pocket, and that they can make it dance to any tune they sing, and make it do whatever they will. We will get to precisely what the law does or does not say later.But for now, I cannot but express my awe and admiration for their supreme self confidence. Perhaps it would be more accurate to call it a grandiose and self righteous arrogance. Does it not stem from a tacit understanding that some deeper structures of power stand close to them, encouraging them, perhaps even guiding them, as they play at being cultural keystone cops? I live in the city of Delhi, hold an Indian passport and make my living by working with images, ideas, words and information. I suppose that makes me an 'urban Indian intellectual', at least according to the vocabulary of the above mentioned postings, which could be made just as probably (or not) by the mystic denizens of rural mars, since their disdain for 'urban, indian, intellectuals' seems to indicate that they must be something else altogether. I hope to be corrected, and to be made to realize that the authors of these postings are just as urban (should I say urbane), much more Indian, and definitely just as, if not more inventive in their intellectual capacities than I and others who stand accused by them are. However, lets get some things clear about what I am not. I am neither a liberal, (in that I do not subscribe to a classical liberal definition of politics, or to a liberal endorsement of, or advocacy of state power) nor can I in my wildest imagination claim that I represent the 'reason of the Indian nation state'. I would hope that by now it is more than amply clear to the readership of this list that I represent something quite to the contrary to the reasons of any state present, past or future. I say this, not to score some cheap debating point but to introduce into this discussion a question about whether or not you can automatically make a lot of assumptions about the politics and practices of someone you happen to put a label on. Perhaps, in a debate it would be wiser to pay closer attention to what people actually say or have said in the past, rather than to leap to conclusions and judgements unwarranted by the public record, especially on a publicly avaiable, carefully archived list. Whover does so, runs the risk of having themselves exposed as charlatans. I suppose that possibility does not overly worry Rashneek Kher and his cohort. However, since, those of us who, to whatever extent, due to the accidents of geography, history, practice and circumstances, fit the taxonomic straightjacket of the phrase 'urban Indian intellectual' have been asked to account for our 'hypocrisy' with such touching sincerity, on this list, I thought I would provoke this discussion further by asking a few questions of my own about the methods and motives of those who have made these postings. They have in fact done a great deal more than making mere postings. They have gone to such great lengths as writing complaints addressed to the SHO of the Hauz Khas Police Station demanding that a screening of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' at Kamla Nehru College be prevented on the grounds that the said film did not carry a certificate from the Central Board of Film Certification. Hence, it was held in the complaint that the screening of the film would constitute an offence under the Cinematograph Act. I will address their motives and justifications for doing so, separately, in another posting. We might recall, that the screening of the same film in Mumbai, at Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan, was stopped on the same grounds. So there is a pattern here. Be it Delhi, or Mumbai, a small, tight, highly organized and motivated circle of individuals is at work, perhaps under higher direction, perhaps not, following and harassing a film and a filmmaker. They are using everything they can, the law (or their twisted understanding of it), hystrionics, innuendo, and as I hope to show subsequently, slander. Right now, we will stick to their reading of the law. Because their reading of the law has serious implications for our understanding of culture and cultural practice in our milieu. How do these gentlemen invoke the law? How, in fact, do you, in India today, harass a filmmaker and prevent a film from being screened, if he (the filmmaker) refuses, especially on grounds of principle, (because of his opposition to censorship) from adorning his work with a piece of paper from the Central Board of Film Certification that deems it worthy of 'public exhibition' to Indian citizens? You call in the police and invoke the Cinematograph Act. You hope that the police 'does the rest' for you. You become loyal whistleblowers, the good guys, who with such consideration and care protect the rest of us from having to watch something that has not been duly certified by the Central Board of Fim Certification. This means we need to undertake a careful examination of how the Cinematograph Act actually defines the issues of film exhibition, and how it defines, or does not define a public for the purpose of film exhibition. Remember, here we are talking about a film and its public, so no appeals to the definition of public with regard to other forms, say, acts that pertain to 'Dramatic Performances', or the readership of a book, will suffice, because they are irrelevant in this instance. Since the gentlemen have invoked the law, and that too a specific law in their complaint, we have to stick for the moment to what constitutes a legal definition of a 'cinematic public'in India today. [Note: For the moment, I am not arguing in detail as to whether the cinematograph act, and the apparatus of film censorship, or almost all forms of censorship per se are desirable or not. I think they are not, and I think it is a shame that we are still straddled with this totally useless and insulting piece of legislation that mocks the intelligences and sensibilities of adult men and women and treats them as infants or imbeciles or both. I think that the censorship system, and the cinematograph act should be scrapped. My views on this account are well known by now, on this list, as well as elsewhere. But that is not the issue here.] So, for the moment, let us stick to the issue at stake. Does a screening of a film, of any film, in any educational institution, say a college, qualify as being an act that requires a filmmaker to produce a certifiate from the CBFC. Does the gathering that collects for such a screening, in such a setting (of an educational institution, or in a space that lets people in by a non commercial invitation) qualify as being a 'public' as per the provisions of the relevant law? Does a filmmaker, or anyone else, who shows such a film commit an offence under the cinematograph act? If it does, then appeals to the police to prevent a screening have a basis in law (even if we disagree with that law substantively) If they do not, then they are only instances of arm-twisting of the worst kind. I want to know how to read the motives that make a group of individuals sit up and go straight to the police in order to deal with a film. How in other words, can we read the unfolding text of the police school of film criticism? The Cinematograph Act merely says that any public exhibition of a film requires a certificate that has to be granted by a licensed authority (board of certification) . It does not tell us what constitutes a public place, nor does it define a public. Is a gathering of friends in a residence a public gathering, is a class room a public place, is a club a public space? On all these issues, the cinematograph act itself is silent. So how do we know what is a public space? Is every gathering of people a public? What, legally, constitutes a 'public' insofar as the exhibition of any film is concerned? I had a telephonic conversation with Lawrence Liang at the Alternative Law Forum in Bangalore yesterday about how one might read and understand the word 'public' (esecially in the face of the absence of any qualifiers or definitions in the Cinematograph Act). Here is a gist of what he said - You might say that this is a tautology. I do not disagree, but it is not I, or Lawrence Liang that framed the terms of this tautology, the lawmakers who wrote it into the law did. So neither I, nor Lawrence Liang can be held responsible for the twisted contours of its reasoning. And as far as I am concerned, we do not ordinarily seek to prosecute or not to prosecute on the basis of whether or not a law is tautological. At least I have not heard of any cases where the police or public prosecutors refuse to arrest or press charges only because a law is tautological. The forces of law and order are not known for their taste in philosophical niceties and nuances. I am also not interested in debating here the many varieties of common or common sense understandings of the word 'public' - to which there can no doubt, be many shades. Since we are discussing a matter where the law has been explicitly invoked, (as in a group of citizens have made a complaint to the police about the violation of a specific law) we have to restrict our discussion to the strictly legal reading of the term public. If they had not gone to the police, we could have had a discussion on their understanding of publicness as being one among many understandings, but once they have gone to the law, they have closed the door to any appeals to common, consensual or commonplace understandings. But we digress, lets get back to the legal definition of what the public means in the context of the exhibition of a film. This means, the test of whether a gathering constitutes a public stems from the terms on which people enter that space. A space that anyone might enter,either freely, or on purchase of a ticket, such as a railway station, a park, a commercial cinema hall, a gallery, or a public library, are indeed public spaces. However, other spaces, such as clubs, libraries that restrict entry to non-members, or educational institutions such as colleges, (that restrict entry to all other than students, faculty, staff and invited guests) are in fact not public spaces. The audience for a screening of a film in a commercial cinema, an open space - say a park, a public library and an educational institution would each be instances of different kinds of gatherings, some of which would be public, and others would not. This, by the way, is exactly the kind of test we need to undertake before we jump to conclusions as to whether or not a moderated blog, or the act of moderation on a moderated blog, is an instance of censorship. If the terms of the blog are that it is moderated, then everyone knows that this is so. Or can know that this is so. Similarly, when an invitation is made by the editors of a book, everyone knows that there are editors, and that there will be edited content. Editing or moderation in such instances cannot amount to censorship because they are being undertaken by the authors and custodians of the works themselves. There is a tacit assumption on the part of the editors or authors of a work that their audinence, or readership, let's them be the primary shapers of its contents. They can be respondents, elsewhere, if the space of response is closed, but they cannot claim automatic entry into the control of authorship of the space created in and around the body of the work. This is the compact on which much of the transaction of culture is based. There are other more open models for cultural transaction, but an effort to ritualize a normative hierarchy between a variety of models is completely pointless as the first model does not seek to supplant or stamp out the latter. They can, and do, coexist, as is excellently demonstrated by the fact of the coexistence of this open, unmoderated list, with other moderated fora. (I hope here that Arnab Chatterjee recognizes, that once again, I am addressing his questions here). There is a difference, for those of you who are inclinded to these matters, between the act of inscription that a 'reader' brings to a text, and an attempt to efface the text through calumny. If however, all content, no matter for whom, or to be published wherever, had to pass through an official body for approval or rejection, separate from and standing above, authors, custodians, moderators and editors, then of course there would be censorship. An edited book, a moderated blog or mailing list, an educational space or a screening in an educational institution, a party in someone's house - none of these are public spaces. An unmoderated list, such as this one, is a public space, which is why we have robustly resisted screening out any public messages by subscribed members on this list. Our commitment to keeping a public space publcly open does not stand in variance to our equally strong commitment to safeguard spaces and acts of enquiry, exchange and reflection that we feel need to be protected from general public scrutiny and/or interference. Which is why, for instance, the Sarai Readers are not 'un-edited' publications. In fact, a commitment to publicness and a commitment to privacy are both guarantors of liberty and act as necessary and complementary influences on what happens across private and public domains. A screening of a film in a public park (one that does not debar entry), or in a commercial cinema theatre is a screening in a public space, to which anyone, (or anyone who has bought a ticket) has automatic right of entry. Corrolarily, the custodians of an educational institution, their students and faculty have every authority, to decide when to show a film, which film to show, which film not to show, and when to show or not show a film, and whom to invite for their screenings. And none of these actions constitute censorship, becasue they are not public spaces that deal with constituted publics. Their decisions do not affect the freedom of those who are not part of these spaces to see or not see or show anything elsewhere. If I decide to see a particular film at home, or not see a particular film, it has no bearing whatsoever on the right of that film to be seen elsewhere and by other people. By definition, entry to an educational institution, such as Kamla Nehru College, is barred to all but students, staff, faculty, and invited guests who are invited because their presence is in some way related to the curricular or extra-curricular activities of the institution. A college is not a public space. A gathering in a college to watch a film - an activity that takes place within the protected space of what is educational for the students - is not a public screening. In fact, even the machinery of the state recognizes this distinction. And if you look hard enough for it, you do find it. In other words, before you run to the police station the next time, try and spend some hours in a library, or at least, google. You will fall less harder on your self-assured faces. There are at least two documents that demonstrate that section 10 of the Cinematograph Act (1952)- precisely the one that states explicitly that no person shall exhibit any film in any place 'elsewhere than in a place licensed under the act'- are not applicable to educational institutions. These are as follows; 1. Report on the Progress of Audio Visual Education for the Year 1956-57 of the Ministry of Education, Government of India (Which I will call the '56-57' Report) and 2. Minutes of the 26th Meeting of the Central Advisory Board of Education, Government of India, 1959 (which I will call the '59' Minutes) Both of these documents indicate that several states (remember, both censorship and education are 'state and/or concurrent subjects') had issued a directive (a hitherto unchallenged directive, to the best of my knowledge) that explicitly states that - "The State Governments of Orissa, Madras, Mysore, Punjab, Bombay,, Bihar, Kerala and U. P. have exempted all recognised educational institutions from the operation of the Section '10' of the Cinematograph Act, 1952," ('56-57' Report) see - http://education.nic.in/cd50years/g/12/24/12240801.htm and that - "The following States have exempted the schools from the operation of Section 10 of the Cinematograph Act, 1952: Andhra, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, Bihar, Bombay, Kerala, Uttar Pradesh, Orissa, Madras, Mysore, Jammu and Kashmir, Assam, and Rajasthan.The matter is still under consideration of the State Government of West Bengal."('59' Minutes) see - http://education.nic.in/cd50years/g/12/23/12230108.htm Give that these dates are prior to the linguistic organization of states, they apply practically to the entire country. Successive 'states' have simply 'inherited' legislation on these matters from their 'precursor' states, with Delhi having inherited legislation pertaining to education and entertainmnent from Punjab. So this is clearly the case in Delhi, and in Mumbai - Educational institutions are exempt from section 10 of the cinematograph act (1952). And any effort to make them part of the regime of the cinematograph act is actually in contradiction of the law as it stands today. If any change in this structure has occurred, of which I am unaware, then we have to ask why and how such a draconian overwriting of an enlightened exemption could pass unnoticed. But, as far as I am aware, there has been no change in the stipulation that educational institutions be made exempt from section 10 of the Cinematograph Act. (Why would the documents that assert that is the case be on on the department of education's public website on an official nic.in server if they were no longer in force ?) In other words, any attempt to derail such an activity in an educational institution, by inviting the police to intervene, has no sanction in the letter of the Cinematograph Act, or in any law. It can and must only be seen as thuggish intimidation by a group of highly motivated individuals. It is entirely upto the facutly, students and administration of the educational institution concerned to decide between themselves what they will or will not allow to be seen and shown on their premises. Neither the police, nor the censor board, nor any busybodies with their motivated agendas have any business interfering in the life of an eduacational institution. Those who complain to the police, and the policemen responsible for acting on that complaint both violate the sanctity and freedom of an educational space, the rights of students and faculty to watch and discuss a film, and act in gross error with regard to the very law that they seek to implement. I hope that a reasoned and informed discussion, and not the trading of motivated charges, will help us in clearing the ground as to where exactly the burden of hypocrisy lies in this case. To be continued, Shuddha From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 16:49:13 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:49:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <27eb9aa43d8951987f9bb4749f291c22@sarai.net> References: <27eb9aa43d8951987f9bb4749f291c22@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708260419j2536bce9x6c836f7860678026@mail.gmail.com> shuddha , You would find most of your answers in these link http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/their-strategies-and-their-motives/ and http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/a-lie-which-cheated-the-courts/ Hope you go through it > I write in plain understandable English.....far different than yours which is understood by your mirror. Regards Pawan Durani On 8/26/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > > Dear All, > > (from an 'urban indian intellectual', especially, but not only, to > mystics living in rural Mars, rural Mars being a state of mind in the > heart > of metropolitan Delhi) > > A few days ago, a flurry of postings began, once again, on this list > (and elsewhere) around screenings (or the prevention of screenings) of > the film 'Jashn-e-Azadi', this time accompanied by reports that > screenings of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' were being planned precisely in order to > suppress and or supplant the screening of another film - ''And the World > Remained Silent' by one Ashok Pandit. > > It was stated in one such posting (Rashneek Kher, quoting/forwarding > Nishant Dudha on the 22nd of August, Sarai Reader List,'Liberals or > Hypocrites by Nishant Dudha'>) that entities which the poster/writer > defined as 'Urban Indian Intellectuals', who (according to the poster) > 'proudly declare themselves liberal and claim themsleves to be the > reason for the Indian nation state and everything that India stands > for', are guilty of hypocrisy in supporting the freedom of one film to > be exhibited, and suprressing the freedom of another to be shown. > > These are serious charges. And need to be addressed seriously. And I > hope to contribute to a serious discussion of these charges through this > and subsequent postings. Right now, I am going to discuss the > implications of the fact that a group of citizens in Delhi have decided > that they have the authority to tell the police to take steps to prevent > a screening that is yet to take place because of their understanding > that the screeing will violate the law, specifially the provisions of > the Indian Cinematograph Act. > > We know this from Rashneek Kher's subsequent posting made on the Sarai > Reader List on August 25 - screening Cancelled> - where he writes - > > "...we went to the Police Station next to the venue where Sanjay Kak had > manipulated his way into (sic). We filed a complaint and since Sanjay > Kak is breaking the law of the land by screening a movie which does not > have necessary censor certificate, the Police did the rest." > > I hope that you all notice the smugness of the expression, "the Police > did the rest". Notice, also that the person (Rashneek Kher) who had > earlier so piously stated that although he thought that 'Jashn-e-Azadi' > was a film he thouroughly disapproved of, and that the public disruption > of whose screenings was something he tacitly endorsed, he still did not > agree (with Aditya Raj Koul) that it should be disallowed by police > intervention in a posting made on this list on the 31st of July. See, > his posting > (31/7/07). > > Within the space of less than a month, he (Rashneek Kher) has gone from > quoting Voltaire to defend the freedom of those he disagrees with to > proudly narrating to us all as to how he and others (the 'we' of his > posting) went and complained to the police in Delhi to stop a screening. > > These gentlemen believe that the law (like the consistency of their own > position vis-a-vis free speech) is in their pocket, and that they can > make it dance to any tune they sing, and make it do whatever they will. > We will get to precisely what the law does or does not say later.But for > now, I cannot but express my awe and admiration for their supreme self > confidence. Perhaps it would be more accurate to call it a grandiose and > self righteous arrogance. Does it not stem from a tacit understanding > that some deeper structures of power stand close to them, encouraging > them, perhaps even guiding them, as they play at being cultural keystone > cops? > > I live in the city of Delhi, hold an Indian passport and make my living > by working with images, ideas, words and information. I suppose that > makes me an 'urban Indian intellectual', at least according to the > vocabulary of the above mentioned postings, which could be made just as > probably (or not) by the mystic denizens of rural mars, since their > disdain for 'urban, indian, intellectuals' seems to indicate that they > must be something else altogether. I hope to be corrected, and to be > made to realize that the authors of these postings are just as urban > (should I say urbane), much more Indian, and definitely just as, if not > more inventive in their intellectual capacities than I and others who > stand accused by them are. > > However, lets get some things clear about what I am not. I am neither a > liberal, (in that I do not subscribe to a classical liberal definition > of politics, or to a liberal endorsement of, or advocacy of state power) > nor can I in my wildest imagination claim that I represent the 'reason > of the Indian nation state'. I would hope that by now it is more than > amply clear to the readership of this list that I represent something > quite to the contrary to the reasons of any state present, past or > future. I say this, not to score some cheap debating point but to > introduce into this discussion a question about whether or not you can > automatically make a lot of assumptions about the politics and practices > of someone you happen to put a label on. Perhaps, in a debate it would > be wiser to pay closer attention to what people actually say or have > said in the past, rather than to leap to conclusions and judgements > unwarranted by the public record, especially on a publicly avaiable, > carefully archived list. Whover does so, runs the risk of having > themselves exposed as charlatans. I suppose that possibility does not > overly worry Rashneek Kher and his cohort. > > However, since, those of us who, to whatever extent, due to the > accidents of geography, history, practice and circumstances, fit the > taxonomic straightjacket of the phrase 'urban Indian intellectual' have > been asked to account for our 'hypocrisy' with such touching sincerity, > on this list, I thought I would provoke this discussion further by > asking a few questions of my own about the methods and motives of those > who have made these postings. > > They have in fact done a great deal more than making mere postings. They > have gone to such great lengths as writing complaints addressed to the > SHO of the Hauz Khas Police Station demanding that a screening of > 'Jashn-e-Azadi' at Kamla Nehru College be prevented on the grounds that > the said film did not carry a certificate from the Central Board of Film > Certification. Hence, it was held in the complaint that the screening of > the film would constitute an offence under the Cinematograph Act. > > I will address their motives and justifications for doing so, separately, > in another posting. > > We might recall, that the screening of the same film in Mumbai, at > Bhupesh Gupta Bhavan, was stopped on the same grounds. So there is a > pattern here. Be it Delhi, or Mumbai, a small, tight, highly organized > and motivated circle of individuals is at work, perhaps under higher > direction, perhaps not, following and harassing a film and a filmmaker. > They are using everything they can, the law (or their twisted > understanding of it), hystrionics, innuendo, and as I hope to show > subsequently, slander. Right now, we will stick to their reading of the > law. Because their reading of the law has serious implications for our > understanding of culture and cultural practice in our milieu. > > How do these gentlemen invoke the law? How, in fact, do you, in India > today, harass a filmmaker and prevent a film from being screened, if he > (the filmmaker) refuses, especially on grounds of principle, (because of > his opposition to censorship) from adorning his work with a piece of > paper from the Central Board of Film Certification that deems it worthy > of 'public exhibition' to Indian citizens? You call in the police and > invoke the Cinematograph Act. You hope that the police 'does the rest' > for you. You become loyal whistleblowers, the good guys, who with such > consideration and care protect the rest of us from having to watch > something that has not been duly certified by the Central Board of Fim > Certification. > > This means we need to undertake a careful examination of how the > Cinematograph Act actually defines the issues of film exhibition, and > how it defines, or does not define a public for the purpose of film > exhibition. > > Remember, here we are talking about a film and its public, so no appeals > to the definition of public with regard to other forms, say, acts that > pertain to 'Dramatic Performances', or the readership of a book, will > suffice, because they are irrelevant in this instance. Since the > gentlemen have invoked the law, and that too a specific law in their > complaint, we have to stick for the moment to what constitutes a legal > definition of a 'cinematic public'in India today. > > [Note: For the moment, I am not arguing in detail as to whether the > cinematograph act, and the apparatus of film censorship, or almost all > forms of censorship per se are desirable or not. I think they are not, > and I think it is a shame that we are still straddled with this totally > useless and insulting piece of legislation that mocks the intelligences > and sensibilities of adult men and women and treats them as infants or > imbeciles or both. I think that the censorship system, and the > cinematograph act should be scrapped. My views on this account are well > known by now, on this list, as well as elsewhere. But that is not the > issue here.] > > So, for the moment, let us stick to the issue at stake. Does a screening > of a film, of any film, in any educational institution, say a college, > qualify as being an act that requires a filmmaker to produce a > certifiate from the CBFC. Does the gathering that collects for such a > screening, in such a setting (of an educational institution, or in a > space that lets people in by a non commercial invitation) qualify as > being a 'public' as per the provisions of the relevant law? Does a > filmmaker, or anyone else, who shows such a film commit an offence under > the cinematograph act? > > If it does, then appeals to the police to prevent a screening have a > basis in law (even if we disagree with that law substantively) If they > do not, then they are only instances of arm-twisting of the worst kind. > I want to know how to read the motives that make a group of individuals > sit up and go straight to the police in order to deal with a film. How > in other words, can we read the unfolding text of the police school of > film criticism? > > The Cinematograph Act merely says that any public exhibition of a film > requires a certificate that has to be granted by a licensed authority > (board of certification) . It does not tell us what constitutes a public > place, nor does it define a public. Is a gathering of friends in a > residence a public gathering, is a class room a public place, is a club > a public space? On all these issues, the cinematograph act itself is > silent. > > So how do we know what is a public space? Is every gathering of people a > public? What, legally, constitutes a 'public' insofar as the exhibition > of any film is concerned? > > I had a telephonic conversation with Lawrence Liang at the Alternative > Law Forum in Bangalore yesterday about how one might read and understand > the word 'public' (esecially in the face of the absence of any > qualifiers or definitions in the Cinematograph Act). Here is a gist of > what he said - > > 'cinematic public' - one comes from taxation law, from entertainment tax > regulations, and the other, from our old friend, the Copyright Act. > > Let us deal with each in turn, > > The 'Public' for a film, for entertainment tax purposes, is any > gathering of people who have been brought together to see, hear, or > otherwise enjoy a film, were, the purpose of the exhibition is the > commercial gain of the exhibitor. This is an idea of the public linked > to a notion of it as a 'purchaser' of the commodity which is the > exhibition of the film. If tickets are sold, or even, lets say, if the > person or persons who arrange for a screening stand to gain in pecuniary > terms because they also sell space for 'advertisements' at the screening > venue, we could, then, talk about a 'cinema/film public' > > A screening in a college or educational or research institution does not > qualify as a 'public gathering' on this account. So this one is easy to > deal with. > > Now comes the definition of the term public, which is broader, in the > copyright act. The question is, is it broad enough to merit police > intervention in this case? > > The copyright act too, does not tell us what a public is directly, but > it tells us what 'communication to the public' means with regard to a > film, or any other work that may be reproduced, by saying - > > "Communication to the Public means, making any work available to been > seen or heard or otherwise enjoyed by the public directly...regardless > of whether any member of the public sees, hears or otherwise enjoys the > work so made available." > > The suggestion as to what constitutes a 'public' lies in the second half > of this quotation. What does the law mean when it says that 'the act of > communication to the public' can be said to occur 'regardless of whether > or not any member of the public sees, hears or enjoys the said work'. It > means that the test of publicness lie in the protocol of entry and > invitation to that space. A space is a public space, even if no public > enters it, as long as theoretically, any member of a public could enter > such a space. As far as the law is concerned, publicness is an attribute > of possibility, contingency and the protocols of entry and presence, not > of the number and accumulation of persons in a given space. This is > clear from the fact that the law defines a space as public even if no > one were present. There can be a legal 'public' of many, of two, of one, > or > of none. > > Consequently, publicness can be defined as a gathering, or the > possibility of a gathering that takes place in such a space. And here > the fact of possibility has a greater weightage than the fact of actual > presence. > > If a space allows entry to its pretincts by invitation, or disallows a > body of people, it cannot be deemed a public space. Hence a gathering > that collects in such a space is not a public. At least not in the eyes > of the laws that regulate access to audio-visual culture. > > > > You might say that this is a tautology. I do not disagree, but it is not > I, or Lawrence Liang that framed the terms of this tautology, the > lawmakers who wrote it into the law did. So neither I, nor Lawrence > Liang can be held responsible for the twisted contours of its reasoning. > And as far as I am concerned, we do not ordinarily seek to prosecute or > not to prosecute on the basis of whether or not a law is tautological. > At least I have not heard of any cases where the police or public > prosecutors refuse to arrest or press charges only because a law is > tautological. The forces of law and order are not known for their taste > in philosophical niceties and nuances. > > I am also not interested in debating here the many varieties of common > or common sense understandings of the word 'public' - to which there can > no doubt, be many shades. Since we are discussing a matter where the law > has been explicitly invoked, (as in a group of citizens have made a > complaint to the police about the violation of a specific law) we have > to restrict our discussion to the strictly legal reading of the term > public. If they had not gone to the police, we could have had a > discussion on their understanding of publicness as being one among many > understandings, but once they have gone to the law, they have closed the > door to any appeals to common, consensual or commonplace understandings. > > But we digress, lets get back to the legal definition of what the public > means in the context of the exhibition of a film. This means, the test > of whether a gathering constitutes a public stems from the terms on > which people enter that space. A space that anyone might enter,either > freely, or on purchase of a ticket, such as a railway station, a park, a > commercial cinema hall, a gallery, or a public library, are indeed > public spaces. > > However, other spaces, such as clubs, libraries that restrict entry to > non-members, or educational institutions such as colleges, (that > restrict entry to all other than students, faculty, staff and invited > guests) are in fact not public spaces. The audience for a screening of a > film in a commercial cinema, an open space - say a park, a public > library and an educational institution would each be instances of > different kinds of gatherings, some of which would be public, and others > would not. > > This, by the way, is exactly the kind of test we need to undertake > before we jump to conclusions as to whether or not a moderated blog, or > the act of moderation on a moderated blog, is an instance of censorship. > > If the terms of the blog are that it is moderated, then everyone knows > that this is so. Or can know that this is so. Similarly, when an > invitation is made by the editors of a book, everyone knows that there > are editors, and that there will be edited content. Editing or > moderation in such instances cannot amount to censorship because they > are being undertaken by the authors and custodians of the works > themselves. There is a tacit assumption on the part of the editors or > authors of a work that their audinence, or readership, let's them be the > primary shapers of its contents. They can be respondents, elsewhere, if > the space of response is closed, but they cannot claim automatic entry > into the control of authorship of the space created in and around the > body of the work. > > This is the compact on which much of the transaction of culture is > based. There are other more open models for cultural transaction, but an > effort to ritualize a normative hierarchy between a variety of models is > completely pointless as the first model does not seek to supplant or > stamp out the latter. They can, and do, coexist, as is excellently > demonstrated by the fact of the coexistence of this open, unmoderated > list, with other moderated fora. (I hope here that Arnab Chatterjee > recognizes, that once again, I am addressing his questions here). There > is a difference, for those of you who are inclinded to these matters, > between the act of inscription that a 'reader' brings to a text, and an > attempt to efface the text through calumny. > > If however, all content, no matter for whom, or to be published wherever, > had to pass through an official body for approval or rejection, separate > from and standing above, authors, custodians, moderators and editors, then > of course there would be censorship. > > An edited book, a moderated blog or mailing list, an educational space > or a screening in an educational institution, a party in someone's house > - none of these are public spaces. > > An unmoderated list, such as this one, is a public space, which is why > we have robustly resisted screening out any public messages by subscribed > members on this list. Our commitment to keeping a public space publcly > open > does not stand in variance to our equally strong commitment to safeguard > spaces and acts of enquiry, exchange and reflection that we feel need to > be > protected from general public scrutiny and/or interference. Which is why, > for instance, the Sarai Readers are not 'un-edited' publications. In fact, > a commitment to publicness and a commitment to privacy are both guarantors > of liberty and act as necessary and complementary influences on what > happens across private and public domains. > > A screening of a film in a public park (one that does not debar entry), > or in a commercial cinema theatre is a screening in a public space, to > which anyone, (or anyone who has bought a ticket) has automatic right of > entry. Corrolarily, the custodians of an educational institution, their > students and faculty have every authority, to decide when to show a film, > which film to show, which film not to show, and when to show or not show a > film, and whom to invite for their screenings. And none of these actions > constitute censorship, becasue they are not public spaces that deal with > constituted publics. Their decisions do not affect the freedom of those > who > are not part of these spaces to see or not see or show anything elsewhere. > If I decide to see a particular film at home, or not see a particular > film, > it has no bearing whatsoever on the right of that film to be seen > elsewhere > and by other people. > > By definition, entry to an educational institution, such as Kamla Nehru > College, is barred to all but students, staff, faculty, and invited > guests who are invited because their presence is in some way related to > the curricular or extra-curricular activities of the institution. A > college is not a public space. A gathering in a college to watch a film > - an activity that takes place within the protected space of what is > educational for the students - is not a public screening. > > In fact, even the machinery of the state recognizes this distinction. > And if you look hard enough for it, you do find it. In other words, > before you run to the police station the next time, try and spend some > hours in a library, or at least, google. You will fall less harder on > your self-assured faces. > > There are at least two documents that demonstrate that section 10 of the > Cinematograph Act (1952)- precisely the one that states explicitly that > no person shall exhibit any film in any place 'elsewhere than in a place > licensed under the act'- are not applicable to educational institutions. > > These are as follows; > > 1. Report on the Progress of Audio Visual Education for the Year 1956-57 > of the Ministry of Education, Government of India (Which I will call the > '56-57' Report) > > and > > 2. Minutes of the 26th Meeting of the Central Advisory Board of > Education, Government of India, 1959 (which I will call the '59' Minutes) > > Both of these documents indicate that several states (remember, both > censorship and education are 'state and/or concurrent subjects') had > issued a directive (a hitherto unchallenged directive, to the best of my > knowledge) that explicitly states that - > > "The State Governments of Orissa, Madras, Mysore, Punjab, Bombay,, > Bihar, Kerala and U. P. have exempted all recognised educational > institutions from the operation of the Section '10' of the Cinematograph > Act, 1952," ('56-57' Report) > > see - http://education.nic.in/cd50years/g/12/24/12240801.htm > > and that - > > "The following States have exempted the schools from the operation of > Section 10 of the Cinematograph Act, 1952: Andhra, Madhya Pradesh, > Punjab, Bihar, Bombay, Kerala, Uttar Pradesh, Orissa, Madras, Mysore, > Jammu and Kashmir, Assam, and Rajasthan.The matter is still under > consideration of the State Government of West Bengal."('59' Minutes) > > see - http://education.nic.in/cd50years/g/12/23/12230108.htm > > Give that these dates are prior to the linguistic organization of > states, they apply practically to the entire country. Successive > 'states' have simply 'inherited' legislation on these matters from their > 'precursor' states, with Delhi having inherited legislation pertaining > to education and entertainmnent from Punjab. So this is clearly the case > in Delhi, and in Mumbai - Educational institutions are exempt from > section 10 of the cinematograph act (1952). And any effort to make them > part of the regime of the cinematograph act is actually in contradiction > of the law as it stands today. If any change in this structure has > occurred, of which I am unaware, then we have to ask why and how such a > draconian overwriting of an enlightened exemption could pass unnoticed. > But, as far as I am aware, there has been no change in the stipulation > that educational institutions be made exempt from section 10 of the > Cinematograph Act. (Why would the documents that assert that is the case > be on on the department of education's public website on an official > nic.in server if they were no longer in force ?) > > In other words, any attempt to derail such an activity in an educational > institution, by inviting the police to intervene, has no sanction in the > letter of the Cinematograph Act, or in any law. It can and must only be > seen as thuggish intimidation by a group of highly motivated > individuals. It is entirely upto the facutly, students and > administration of the educational institution concerned to decide > between themselves what they will or will not allow to be seen and shown > on their premises. Neither the police, nor the censor board, nor any > busybodies with their motivated agendas have any business interfering in > the life of an eduacational institution. Those who complain to the > police, and the policemen responsible for acting on that complaint both > violate the sanctity and freedom of an educational space, the rights of > students and faculty to watch and discuss a film, and act in gross error > with regard to the very law that they seek to implement. > > I hope that a reasoned and informed discussion, and not the trading of > motivated charges, will help us in clearing the ground as to where > exactly the burden of hypocrisy lies in this case. > > To be continued, > > Shuddha > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 17:39:52 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <6C2FECF8-C2C4-4C7C-B225-9A80AC6101D3@sarai.net> Message-ID: <177145.41023.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Jeebesh The pain in your words is touching. The pathos in your questions will move the coldest of hearts. Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and convince. Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to satiate their rage. Curse those trying to restrain our intellectual lives. Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do some role-playing with you as the protagonist. It was a small world, a village of sorts where everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were called "my brother" and "my sister", other than parents and grandparents, every adult was an "uncle" or "aunt". In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens or maybe just past them but really a child as most young men were in those seemingly but largely uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some say since many a centuries from the past) they retained the innocence of Trust and Hope. SK also lived there or at least today he claims to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your own age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace out some other close relationship. 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people took place. Everyone knew everyone else. Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised the signs of upheavals that were to come. For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are a whirling blur of images and sounds. They would drive him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and left abandoned. - Another sister was raped and killed after that. - Another sister was raped and killed but they mutilated her breasts. - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on a tree - He remembers the corpses of young and old and of male and female riddled with bullets - Most of all he remembers the fear in the eyes of those around him. - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate messages from places meant for worship. - He remembers his own fears reflected in the eyes of those around him. Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years after those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life together in new surroundings. He whined every now and then, he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He met up with tiny groups to recount happy memories and sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet existence. Jeebesh's existence had been quietened. In the 17th year of the Exodus, Jeebesh's "cousin" SK made a film. Jeebesh got to know about it. SK's film eulogised those responsible for Jeebesh's 'Trauma List". Self confessed perpetrators of some cases and supporters of other murderers and rapists. SK's film celebrated them and their call for "Aazadi". SK forgot that in the seeking of "Hurriyat" (Freedom) lay their merry-go-round of barbarianism that was Jeebesh's whirling blur of images and sounds from his "Trauma List". Will Jeebesh try to have the screening of SK's film stopped? What will Jeebesh's decision be? Kshmendra Kaul Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > We > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking the law of the > land by > screening a movie which does not have necessary censor certificate, > the > Police did the rest. > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of invitation to policing of our intellectual lives? Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of our deep fear to live life with disagreements? If police is brought in to intervene, will there be people left to argue with and convince? best jeebesh _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 08:04:51 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <177145.41023.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <644611.56150.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom of expression, I really want to understand where you guys are coming from and I think it is very necessary for the people of the country that we get at the bottom of this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot of people in the media. A nation is defined by certain underlying principles.Those principles are not that are subject to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is an Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of the state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is no process in the framework by which Iran can become secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and some bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants to create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not have a constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of course is always a recourse.The principle of immutability of borders is one of the principles which is inherent to the existence of every nation state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no nation gives a constitutional process to redraw its borders. So,the only course followers of such an intention have is violence,terrorism etc. So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made a movie enabling the ideology which is against the basic underlying principles of the nation.It was banned.I do not see your problem with this.Now of course,the fact that the movie did enable that ideology or not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be banned. You guys may have risen above the concept of nation religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant rise above the definition of itself. (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why it comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not good enough.Anyway..) So to ask the nation to allow freedom of expression on ideologies which go against its underlying principles and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We dont need no education" as its morning prayer. To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh Kak's background or financier is irrelevant here.So is the traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected to.If a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala suddenly decide that they want a separate country and start distributing pamphlets,I would support confiscating the pamphlets and giving them adequate punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I believe its very important. Hoping to hear from you Best, Rahul --- Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Jeebesh > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos in > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and convince. > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to restrain > our intellectual lives. > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do some > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > parents and grandparents, every adult was an "uncle" > or "aunt". > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens or > maybe just past them but really a child as most > young men were in those seemingly but largely > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some say > since many a centuries from the past) they retained > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > SK also lived there or at least today he claims > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your own > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace out > some other close relationship. > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people took > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised the > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are a > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would drive > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > left abandoned. > - Another sister was raped and killed after that. > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > mutilated her breasts. > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on a > tree > - He remembers the corpses of young and old and of > male and female riddled with bullets > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the eyes of > those around him. > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > messages from places meant for worship. > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the eyes > of those around him. > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years after > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life together > in new surroundings. He whined every now and then, > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He met > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories and > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet existence. > Jeebesh's existence had been quietened. > > In the 17th year of the Exodus, Jeebesh's "cousin" > SK made a film. Jeebesh got to know about it. > > SK's film eulogised those responsible for > Jeebesh's 'Trauma List". Self confessed perpetrators > of some cases and supporters of other murderers and > rapists. SK's film celebrated them and their call > for "Aazadi". > > SK forgot that in the seeking of "Hurriyat" > (Freedom) lay their merry-go-round of barbarianism > that was Jeebesh's whirling blur of images and > sounds from his "Trauma List". > > Will Jeebesh try to have the screening of SK's > film stopped? What will Jeebesh's decision be? > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > We > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > the law of the > > land by > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > censor certificate, > > the > > Police did the rest. > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > invitation to > policing of our intellectual lives? > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > our deep fear to > live life with disagreements? > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > people left to > argue with and convince? > > best > jeebesh > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 08:28:10 2007 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Taraprakash) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:58:10 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata, Anjalika & others References: <582386.41749.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01ab01c7e856$1f395130$d2f9bd48@Shabori> Is it really fair to trivialize the main issue by haunting the person who dared to say what you did not like him to? Or may be the way you liked him to? It is exploitation at its worst. It will be the best, in the interest of everybody on the list, that remarks of personal nature about a list member be kept off list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ARNAB CHATTERJEE" To: Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:29 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Reconstructing Taslima: Response to Shuddhabrata,Anjalika & others > Dear SARAI readers, Shuddhabrata and others, > > > I think I might just catch up with the phase where the debate lingers—now > –that is presently! This is not an organized response, neither am I ready > with the resources here to do so. But let me clarify one or two things > immediately! These I get from the Reader List itself—particularly from > those who have commented on the same. And no surprise---they ( the catch > phrases) return again and again! For instance--- the words ( and so much > more) ‘liberal;’ ‘physical violence’, ‘freedom of expression’ and some > such others. > To argue for any kind of freedom is not a liberal standpoint. The word > ‘Liberal’ should not be used in the sense of being open ( or broad?) > minded, emancipatory, libertarian, or one who believes in fostering any > kind of freedom etc etc. The liberal political position is based on the > notion of ‘individual’ freedom through individual rights; secondly, a > distinction that is contextually more crucial to the liberal standpoint is > the public/ private divide; restraints or openness would be charted > according to these contours. > Now in the Taslima in Hyderabad debate—even if we want to retain the > ‘freedom of expression’ schema, it would be in terms of individual rights > of freedom of speech or one might go further and harp a cultural liberal > standpoint and argue for the ‘freedom of the artist.’ But if you engage a > bit historically you will notice that the slogan was engineered in the > days of art claiming itself to have become autonomous and thus separating > itself from morality and science and emerging with its own distinctive > validity claims. This was the good glorified days of cultural modernity > ( Habermas has elaborate comments on this) aligned with –as you see > political liberal protection given to the individual artist in terms of > personal rights. ( Now I’m not raising the fatal objection raised once > upon a time by Nietzsche that, if the art/artist requires the protection > of rights how could it be really free! For Nietzsche rights were also > fetters: if you argue against absolute rights or royal > privileges, why don’t you argue against rights themselves at some point of > time to become ‘really’ free. Nietzsche meant, I guess, how could you > argue that rights are not a bondage! Or in other words, free art or > artistic freedom still is connected to politics and needs to declare its > freedom not through the criteria of art but an external political criteria > which makes a mockery of this freedom. ) But I’m not going for this; > rather I’m summing up for safe that, in this discourse, art is autonomous: > an artist is free; and clearly this argument is from a liberal modern > standpoint. So far so good! > Now, any challenge put to this seems to be from the texts of my dear > Shuddhabrata et.al –is fundamentalism or as Anjalika puts it so much more > sexily "Hindu fundoos." In other words, the claim of certain "self > appointed"( again Shuddha) "cultural police" officers(!) that there has > occurred a denigrating representation of certain communities in certain > texts ( and resorts to violence ) is cultural fascism, double > fundamentalism etc. etc. Here I want to put some theoretical facts in > place ( which I first published in The Statesman in the year 2000 in the > wake of this same kind of furor around the films ‘Water’ and ‘Fire’). > The thing that challenges liberal ‘modernity’ in art ( or whatever) in > postcolonial nation states is not fundamentalism, but ‘democracy’. This > algorithm was first formulated by Partha Chatterjee and no one has, to my > mind, been able to refute this schema. So—unencumbered therefore—I’ll > adopt this proposal for application. > Arguing in modernist terms when the artist declares his freedom of > expression where expression is understood as speech, community spokesmen > ( in the absence of representative politics within religious communities > they have to be self appointed or nominated) harshly voice the question of > the artists’ answerability or accountability to the communities who tend > to have a self image of their own; they claim that they have the right to > be represented in consonance with their cognitive self-understanding. This > belongs to what I call the ‘politics of designation’ ( some call it > ‘identity politics). These are purely democratic claims ( cultural group > rights?) and are growing more and more audible with the advance of > democratic politics everywhere. Shuddha would not repent a violent dalit > backlash against an allegedly intentional brahmanic image-making of the > dalit. Even when feminists claim that women are stereotypically denigrated > in pornography or in masculist texts, the claim > resembles the form and structure of such a politics. > > Is part of the picture clear now? –The raving debate! I think it is. > Now, physical violence! I’ve already said elsewhere that the question of > toleration in the face of discrimination is an empirical question; it > cannot be predicted with certainty when and how and who will be screwed or > beaten up! ( In that case, Sania Mirza instead of being thrashed up has > resorted back to her micromini; she can afford this and the "armed radical > Islamic activists"( not "fundoos") have not been able to organize the > required coercion; it’s a matter of determinate chance). Secondly, those > who slander against physical coercion have not answered why indirect > manipulative politics of dirty hands would be hierarchically better placed > than direct physical violence. I discussed this in detail in my posting > ( see SARAI list, search A.C, post 2.5, May 10 ) and brought in the > witness of Kant who says direct violence can be relied upon but not malice > which is a slur upon mankind. And here my dear Shuddha makes the blunder > of arguing that because Taslima has not called > for "killing", she cannot be killed. Shuddha, this is ridiculous! Are all > the people killed everyday, approved of killing as a theoretical claim? Or > because Marx announced a program of "violent overthrow", deserved to be > killed just because of that? In fact it is just the reverse. The human > rights arguments actually spring from the disapproval of death for not > only one who advocates murder but the convicted killer: killing looses its > legitimacy only there and then; animal rights arguments are a step further > in this direction to help build a non murderous society. Killing cannot be > disenfrachised by arguing safe passage for those who have not given a call > to kill. > Thirdly and lastly, those who believe in democracy as only deliberation > and ask for a dialogue across the table ( not bed hahhahha), let me inform > them with humility that Taslima was challenged by an Islamic cleric > scholar in Kolkata (I have the details) to come to an open debate on the > Islamic portions of her engagement, she didn’t agree on the "imaginary" > grounds that she will be "abused." > > Finally, let me close by saying that I took this trouble only because I > have great reverence for Shuddha and I consider him one of the best minds > I know. And when with a lot of anticipation I start reading his post, at > times I’m disgusted with the liberties that he takes in order to score an > activist point and urge us to meet at Jantar Mantar. I know that sometimes > it is necessary to stop thinking and arguing and start acting but then I > think the declaration should be as terse as it is required. > When I see such loose ends elsewhere –also for writers ‘in haste’, I just > feel like reminding them that thinkers have and are still spending lives > on each of the threads of such subjects; things are not as easy as they > look.( Anjalika Sagar mentions liberalism in service of ‘porn-gurus’; I > can just remind her that there are excellent, sophisticated and > devastating arguments on both sides so much that the debate remains > unsettled. Has she read them enough to argue against?) Actually I don’t > mind self complacent but vacuous arguments in newspaper (post) editorials; > they don’t dare confront what Habermas called ‘the force of the better > argument’ but when I notice that such a mind as Shuddhabrata arguing with > such loose ends hanging, I feel deeply lost. Shuddha’s silence would not > rescue him from the mess that he has got himself in.. > I wrote all this to remind Shuddha that given our expectations he should > keep his level lovely—always at his best. > And we would be delighted to read what we would like to read. This was > Shuddha at his worst! > Thanking you > Yours in discourse and debt > arnab > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 08:41:18 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <644611.56150.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <585600.97369.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Corrections to my post: Sanjay Kak is the name of the person..and the movie was not banned but prevented by Police to be screened.I apologise on posting without reading the full details.But the basic issue still stands.viz.Is the nation justified in preventing from screening \banning some forms of expression? --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom of > expression, > I really want to understand where you guys are > coming > from and I think it is very necessary for the people > of the country that we get at the bottom of > this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot > of > people in the media. > A nation is defined by certain underlying > principles.Those principles are not that are subject > to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is > an > Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of > the > state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is no > process in the framework by which Iran can become > secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and > some > bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. > India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants to > create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not have > a > constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of > course is always a recourse.The principle of > immutability of borders is one of the principles > which > is inherent to the existence of every nation > state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no > nation > gives a constitutional process to redraw its > borders. > So,the only course followers of such an intention > have > is violence,terrorism etc. > So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made a > movie enabling the ideology which is against the > basic > underlying principles of the nation.It was banned.I > do not see your problem with this.Now of course,the > fact that the movie did enable that ideology or > not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be > banned. > You guys may have risen above the concept of nation > religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant > rise above the definition of itself. > (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why it > comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not > good > enough.Anyway..) > So to ask the nation to allow freedom of expression > on > ideologies which go against its underlying > principles > and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and > strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We > dont > need no education" as its morning prayer. > To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh Kak's > background or financier is irrelevant here.So is the > traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected > to.If > a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala > suddenly > decide that they want a separate country and start > distributing pamphlets,I would support confiscating > the pamphlets and giving them adequate > punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! > Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I > believe its very important. > Hoping to hear from you > Best, > Rahul > > --- Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > Jeebesh > > > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos > in > > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and > convince. > > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to restrain > > our intellectual lives. > > > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do > some > > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > > parents and grandparents, every adult was an > "uncle" > > or "aunt". > > > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens or > > maybe just past them but really a child as most > > young men were in those seemingly but largely > > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some say > > since many a centuries from the past) they > retained > > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > > > SK also lived there or at least today he claims > > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your own > > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace > out > > some other close relationship. > > > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people took > > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised > the > > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are a > > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would > drive > > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > > left abandoned. > > - Another sister was raped and killed after > that. > > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > > mutilated her breasts. > > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on a > > tree > > - He remembers the corpses of young and old and > of > > male and female riddled with bullets > > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the eyes > of > > those around him. > > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > > messages from places meant for worship. > > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the > eyes > > of those around him. > > > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years > after > > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life together > > in new surroundings. He whined every now and then, > > > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He met > > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories and > > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet > existence. > > Jeebesh's existence had been quietened. > > > > In the 17th year of the Exodus, Jeebesh's > "cousin" > > SK made a film. Jeebesh got to know about it. > > > > SK's film eulogised those responsible for > > Jeebesh's 'Trauma List". Self confessed > perpetrators > > of some cases and supporters of other murderers > and > > rapists. SK's film celebrated them and their call > > for "Aazadi". > > > > SK forgot that in the seeking of "Hurriyat" > > (Freedom) lay their merry-go-round of barbarianism > > that was Jeebesh's whirling blur of images and > > sounds from his "Trauma List". > > > > Will Jeebesh try to have the screening of SK's > > film stopped? What will Jeebesh's decision be? > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > > > Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > We > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is > breaking > > the law of the > > > land by > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > censor certificate, > > > the > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 27 08:52:19 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:22:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <585600.97369.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <21875.56125.qm@web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul I don't agree with you on this. Where has this concept of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, or 2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any Shastras? I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by the colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this concept as it suits our ends. Why? And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a voice of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that created by some individuals (who we may or may not agree with). I think its time we rise above the definition of the Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. What is required is the opening of hearts and minds. --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > Corrections to my post: > Sanjay Kak is the name of the person..and the movie > was not banned but prevented by Police to be > screened.I apologise on posting without reading the > full details.But the basic issue still stands.viz.Is > the nation justified in preventing from screening > \banning some forms of expression? > > > --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom > of > > expression, > > I really want to understand where you guys are > > coming > > from and I think it is very necessary for the > people > > of the country that we get at the bottom of > > this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot > > of > > people in the media. > > A nation is defined by certain underlying > > principles.Those principles are not that are > subject > > to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is > > an > > Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of > > the > > state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is > no > > process in the framework by which Iran can become > > secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and > > some > > bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. > > India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants > to > > create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not > have > > a > > constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of > > course is always a recourse.The principle of > > immutability of borders is one of the principles > > which > > is inherent to the existence of every nation > > state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no > > nation > > gives a constitutional process to redraw its > > borders. > > So,the only course followers of such an intention > > have > > is violence,terrorism etc. > > So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made > a > > movie enabling the ideology which is against the > > basic > > underlying principles of the nation.It was > banned.I > > do not see your problem with this.Now of > course,the > > fact that the movie did enable that ideology or > > not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be > > banned. > > You guys may have risen above the concept of > nation > > religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant > > rise above the definition of itself. > > (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why > it > > comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not > > good > > enough.Anyway..) > > So to ask the nation to allow freedom of > expression > > on > > ideologies which go against its underlying > > principles > > and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and > > strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We > > dont > > need no education" as its morning prayer. > > To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh > Kak's > > background or financier is irrelevant here.So is > the > > traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected > > to.If > > a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala > > suddenly > > decide that they want a separate country and start > > distributing pamphlets,I would support > confiscating > > the pamphlets and giving them adequate > > punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! > > Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I > > believe its very important. > > Hoping to hear from you > > Best, > > Rahul > > > > --- Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > > > Jeebesh > > > > > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos > > in > > > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > > > > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and > > convince. > > > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > > > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > > > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to > restrain > > > our intellectual lives. > > > > > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do > > some > > > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > > > > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > > > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > > > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > > > parents and grandparents, every adult was an > > "uncle" > > > or "aunt". > > > > > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens > or > > > maybe just past them but really a child as most > > > young men were in those seemingly but largely > > > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some > say > > > since many a centuries from the past) they > > retained > > > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > > > > > SK also lived there or at least today he > claims > > > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your > own > > > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace > > out > > > some other close relationship. > > > > > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people > took > > > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > > > > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > > > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > > > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised > > the > > > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > > > > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are > a > > > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would > > drive > > > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > > > > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > > > left abandoned. > > > - Another sister was raped and killed after > > that. > > > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > > > mutilated her breasts. > > > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > > > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on > a > > > tree > > > - He remembers the corpses of young and old > and > > of > > > male and female riddled with bullets > > > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the > eyes > > of > > > those around him. > > > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > > > messages from places meant for worship. > > > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the > > eyes > > > of those around him. > > > > > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years > > after > > > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life > together > > > in new surroundings. He whined every now and > then, > > > > > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He > met > > > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories > and > > > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > > > > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > > > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet > === message truncated === Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From ranjani.jnu at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 09:39:06 2007 From: ranjani.jnu at gmail.com (Ranjani Mazumdar) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:39:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Talk on Science Fiction Film Message-ID: *HUMANITY, THE UNFINISHED PROJECT: SCIENCE FICTION FILM AND THE IDEA(L) OF TOMORROW * A public talk by *Nitin Govil* University of California, San Diego * *Screening of *Children of Men* (Alfonso Cuarón, 2006) followed by discussion* **JNU School of Arts and Aesthetics Main Auditorium Friday, August 31st 2007, 2:30pm* From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 09:46:54 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:46:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <585600.97369.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <644611.56150.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <585600.97369.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708262116s77dfbdb5r71478a8c202d00e9@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Rahul . I wish people can understand your message. Pawan On 8/27/07, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Corrections to my post: > Sanjay Kak is the name of the person..and the movie > was not banned but prevented by Police to be > screened.I apologise on posting without reading the > full details.But the basic issue still stands.viz.Is > the nation justified in preventing from screening > \banning some forms of expression? > > > --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom of > > expression, > > I really want to understand where you guys are > > coming > > from and I think it is very necessary for the people > > of the country that we get at the bottom of > > this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot > > of > > people in the media. > > A nation is defined by certain underlying > > principles.Those principles are not that are subject > > to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is > > an > > Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of > > the > > state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is no > > process in the framework by which Iran can become > > secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and > > some > > bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. > > India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants to > > create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not have > > a > > constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of > > course is always a recourse.The principle of > > immutability of borders is one of the principles > > which > > is inherent to the existence of every nation > > state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no > > nation > > gives a constitutional process to redraw its > > borders. > > So,the only course followers of such an intention > > have > > is violence,terrorism etc. > > So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made a > > movie enabling the ideology which is against the > > basic > > underlying principles of the nation.It was banned.I > > do not see your problem with this.Now of course,the > > fact that the movie did enable that ideology or > > not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be > > banned. > > You guys may have risen above the concept of nation > > religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant > > rise above the definition of itself. > > (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why it > > comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not > > good > > enough.Anyway..) > > So to ask the nation to allow freedom of expression > > on > > ideologies which go against its underlying > > principles > > and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and > > strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We > > dont > > need no education" as its morning prayer. > > To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh Kak's > > background or financier is irrelevant here.So is the > > traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected > > to.If > > a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala > > suddenly > > decide that they want a separate country and start > > distributing pamphlets,I would support confiscating > > the pamphlets and giving them adequate > > punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! > > Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I > > believe its very important. > > Hoping to hear from you > > Best, > > Rahul > > > > --- Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > Jeebesh > > > > > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos > > in > > > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > > > > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and > > convince. > > > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > > > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > > > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to restrain > > > our intellectual lives. > > > > > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do > > some > > > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > > > > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > > > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > > > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > > > parents and grandparents, every adult was an > > "uncle" > > > or "aunt". > > > > > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens or > > > maybe just past them but really a child as most > > > young men were in those seemingly but largely > > > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some say > > > since many a centuries from the past) they > > retained > > > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > > > > > SK also lived there or at least today he claims > > > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your own > > > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace > > out > > > some other close relationship. > > > > > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people took > > > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > > > > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > > > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > > > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised > > the > > > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > > > > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are a > > > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would > > drive > > > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > > > > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > > > left abandoned. > > > - Another sister was raped and killed after > > that. > > > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > > > mutilated her breasts. > > > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > > > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on a > > > tree > > > - He remembers the corpses of young and old and > > of > > > male and female riddled with bullets > > > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the eyes > > of > > > those around him. > > > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > > > messages from places meant for worship. > > > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the > > eyes > > > of those around him. > > > > > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years > > after > > > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life together > > > in new surroundings. He whined every now and then, > > > > > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He met > > > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories and > > > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > > > > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > > > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet > > existence. > > > Jeebesh's existence had been quietened. > > > > > > In the 17th year of the Exodus, Jeebesh's > > "cousin" > > > SK made a film. Jeebesh got to know about it. > > > > > > SK's film eulogised those responsible for > > > Jeebesh's 'Trauma List". Self confessed > > perpetrators > > > of some cases and supporters of other murderers > > and > > > rapists. SK's film celebrated them and their call > > > for "Aazadi". > > > > > > SK forgot that in the seeking of "Hurriyat" > > > (Freedom) lay their merry-go-round of barbarianism > > > that was Jeebesh's whirling blur of images and > > > sounds from his "Trauma List". > > > > > > Will Jeebesh try to have the screening of SK's > > > film stopped? What will Jeebesh's decision be? > > > > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is > > breaking > > > the law of the > > > > land by > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > censor certificate, > > > > the > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need a vacation? Get great deals > to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > http://travel.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From aman.am at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 10:59:28 2007 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:59:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <995a19920708261052o7fe0942hfb7a6af4faf2d22d@mail.gmail.com> References: <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> <317242.50854.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <995a19920708261052o7fe0942hfb7a6af4faf2d22d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <995a19920708262229v7b0b1d0cq747f7bc6e7193847@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - without once more, providing anything other than a series of conjectures- is irresponsible. Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not succeeded in doing so. At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why it is so hard to take him seriously. I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to laughing hyenas. Best, as always, Aman On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Aman > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > rather)? > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated questions > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with passion > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his experience. > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite?". > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces should > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly happened'. > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, you > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > would be journalism. > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships without > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones who > should report/inform. > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > Best > A. > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , > do > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > Pawan Durani > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > is true, that is). > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > the law of the > > > > > land by > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > the > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > invitation to > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > our deep fear to > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > people left to > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > best > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > From info at kevinkaul.com Sun Aug 26 19:12:54 2007 From: info at kevinkaul.com (FOSAAC (KEVIN KAUL)) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Reader-list] HINDUS TO LEARN TO LIVE IN THE US- A MUST READ ARTICLE Message-ID: <1101791773731.1101245878128.30901.5.260940A1@scheduler> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 26 August 2007 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Issue: 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Welcome to Friends of the South Asian American Communities Dear ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Was the US Senate Attack on Hinduism an isolated Instance? Article by: Rajiv Malhotra, The US Senate has a long tradition of opening with Bible prayers, occasionally extending a symbolic courtesy to prayers of other faiths. For the first time in its history a Hindu priest was invited to conduct the opening prayer. Indian-Americans, having contributed immensely to America, naturally felt proud to be afforded equal respect alongside other American religions. But the Hindu prayer was attacked as an "abomination" by hate-filled heckling that resulted from an organized mobilization by civic groups such as the American Family Association attempting, to demonize Hinduism as heathen, immoral and dangerously un-American. The President of the Family Research Council mobilized Americans to block the Hindu priest, saying, "There is no historic connection between America and the polytheistic creed of Hinduism." David Barton, one of the scholars informing the attackers, declared that Hinduism was "not a religion that has produced great things in the world," citing social conditions in India as proof of its primitiveness. The denigration of Hinduism influences the way Americans relate to Indians. Andrew Rotter, an American historian, in his book on the US foreign policy's tilt against India and towards Pakistan during the Nehru era, cites declassified documents revealing US presidents' and diplomats' suspicions of Hinduism. They regarded "Hindu India" as lacking morality and integrity, and its "grotesque images" reminded them of previous pagan faiths conquered by Christians, such as Native Americans. American ideas about India are intertwined with stereotypes about Hinduism. There are domestic implications concerning the diaspora as well. The great American meritocracy has enabled us to succeed as individuals, and many Indians see American Jews as a role model. But it took the Jews over half a century of organized lobbying and litigation by organizations such as the Anti-Defamation League, to establish their religious identity in public life. The lesson Jews had learnt in the European Holocaust was that their individual success could easily be used against them if their civilizational identity was defamed. Indians also faced hate crimes in New Jersey when the Dotbusters targeted Hindus. Recent rants by Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs generate xenophobia against Indians for "stealing" jobs from "real" (i.e. white Judeo-Christian) Americans. As Indian-Americans stand out for their individual success, while US economic standards deteriorate, we may one day regret having neglected the projection of a positive civilizational image. Unlike many other ethnic and religious groups, we have not adequately engaged US universities, schools, media and think-tanks deeper than the pop culture layer of cuisine, Bollywood and fashions. On the contrary, many Indian writers have fed the "caste, cows, curry" images of India. Hindu-Americans need to be educated on the history of American public religion and the "American way" of claiming one's religious identity across the spectrum of liberals and conservatives. In fact, even liberal Americans have always been a very Christian people. Hilary Clinton's devout Christianity has shaped her liberalism. She told New York Times that her Methodist faith has been "a huge part of who I am, and how I have seen the world and what I believe in, and what I have tried to do in my life." She carries a Bible on her campaign travels and confidently quotes from St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and John Wesley, the father of Methodism. Another liberal, Barak Obama, proudly projects his Christianity and delivers many of his key campaign speeches before church congregations. It comes as a surprise to many secular Indians that the very liberal President Jimmy Carter describes himself as a Bible evangelist, and asserts that his Christian faith provided the moral compass to guide his presidency. Liberalism in America is about egalitarian economic and race policies, and is not a rejection or even a departure from the nation's majority religion, i.e. Christianity. The equivalent scenario would be for India's CPM leaders (the liberal/left equivalent of Obama, Clinton and Carter) to quote Hindu sacred texts and deliver campaign speeches in major Hindu temples. While American labor unions have always been very deeply rooted in Christianity, India's labor unions are encouraged to discard the Hindu identity. Unlike in Europe, American public life has never abandoned its deep rooted Christian foundations. America's separation of state and church affects only formal institutions, and does not imply de-Christianizing the leadership or the national ethos. Indian intellectuals have misunderstood America's Christian psyche because the Indian notion of secularism in India is very different to that of the American. Indian secularism requires distancing from the majority religion, i.e. Hinduism, by one or more of the following ways: by espousing a "generic spirituality" without any specific religious identity, by condemning any Hindu identity as a mark of communalism with BJP links, or by explicitly blaming Hinduism for all sorts of human rights problems. The equivalent situation would be to blame the Bible for all the US abuses in Guantanamo and in its domestic society, and to de-Christianize America into a sort of generic spirituality. While Hinduism, like all other world religions, does have social problems, it also has internally generated reformations, as well as immense resources to deal with the human condition. Unraveling this requires understanding Hinduphobia's nexus in the American academy and seminaries. This is the subject of a well-researched eye-opening new book, titled, Invading the Sacred: An analysis of Hinduism Studies in America. (See: www.invadingthesacred.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=dbrq5dcab.0.ggxp5dcab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.invadingthesacred.com%2F] for details.) The book exposes influential scholars who have disparaged the Bhagavad Gita as "a dishonest book"; declared Ganesha's trunk a "limp phallus"; classified the Hindu Devi as the "mother with a penis" and Shiva as "a notorious womanizer" who incites violence in India; pronounced Sri Ramakrishna a pedophile who sexually molested the young Swami Vivekananda; condemned Indian mothers as being less loving of their children than white women; and interpreted the bindi as a drop of menstrual fluid and the "ha" in sacred mantras as a woman's sound during orgasm. To understand the hatred spewed at us by the Senate hecklers one needs to understand the systemic creation and distribution of such one-sided "data" by an army of "scholars" whose mission is to bolster the image of Hinduism as a danger to the American way of life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kevin Kaul Friends of the South Asian American Communities 562-572-8751 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101245878128&ea=reader-list at sarai.net&a=1101791773731 This email was sent to reader-list at sarai.net, by info at kevinkaul.com Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101791773731&lang=en&reason=F Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101791773731&lang=en&reason=F Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Friends of the South Asian American Communities | FOSAAC | 11432 South St | #308 | Cerritos | CA | 90703 From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 13:06:31 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:06:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UNITED STUDENTS to contest DUSU Elections Message-ID: *UNITED STUDENTS to contest DUSU Elections* United Students has come together as a group of motivated DU students who are tired with the quality of politics at DU and want to do something about it: Not by organizing seminars alone but by real time intervention, on the ground action and direct engagement. We contested the DUSU president's post last year and our candidate Aaditya Dar stood third, ahead of several established political parties. US is a freethinkers forum where everybody who thinks about issues is welcome. The response we got last year proves that if we are truly serious about cleaning up politics at DU, there is a huge votebank of support. We are therefore taking forward our work this year by again contesting for DUSU. Our candidates are: *Nikhita Arora [KMC economics] for President Ritwik Agrawal [Hindu maths] For General Secretary Ekta Marwah [Hansraj history] for Vice President. Vote! Support! Elect! For more information: **www.unitedstudents.in* *Our Orkut community: **http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13038478* * * *E-mail: unitedstudents.india at gmail.com* ** *PAST CAMPAIGNS of UNITED STUDENTS -* ** *1) Justice 4 Jessica Lall* *2) Justice 4 Priyadarshini Mattoo* *3) Anti-Caste Based Reservation Movement* *4) Justice For Nithari* *5) Voter I.D. Card Registration for Students* *6) Better Transport Facility in Delhi University ( All Campus)* *7) Metro Fare Relaxation Campaign for Students* *8) Drive against cuting of Tree's in DU Campus* *9) Campaign to save Yamuna* *10) Human Rights Campaign for Kashmiri Pandit Community* ** *Thanks* -- *Aditya Raj Kaul* *Activist Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk * From delhifilmarchive at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 12:53:04 2007 From: delhifilmarchive at gmail.com (Delhi Film Archive [DFA]) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:53:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [DFA: 19] Film Screening - City Walls - My own private Tehran Message-ID: <5a4334630708270023q4adda34te19acad9c077e567@mail.gmail.com> The Delhi Film Archive with History Society and Gender Forum Ramjas College present - ** *City Walls -- My own Private Tehran* * 87 minutes, Iran* * A film by Afsar Sonia Shafie (present for the screening) **29 August at 1:15 pm* *Venue: Seminar Room, Ramjas College, Delhi University * In times where headlines about the so-called "Culture Clash" hunt each other, the Iranian filmmaker Afsar Sonia Shafie tells us a different story. During her trip to her hometown Tehran, the filmmaker, who currently lives in Switzerland, confronts herself with the history of her own family. She is visiting her grandparents and lets them talk about their lives. In conversations with her grandmother, her mother, her sisters and aunts the director documents her own emancipation and that of her female relatives. *In a very private, sensitive and exemplary way "City Walls-My own Private Tehran" portraits remarkable mothers and women who, with every generation, gradually managed to free themselves from the chains of the oppressive patriarchal order. It shows us how women continue fighting for their right to progress.* ** VISIT OUR WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org JOIN OUR MAILING LIST OF FILM SCREENINGS: email: delhifilmarchive-subscribe at googlegroups.com CONTACT US: delhifilmarchive at gmail.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive/ Visit our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org See the LIST OF FILMS in the Archive: http://www.delhifilmarchive.org/archive.html -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pukar at pukar.org.in Mon Aug 27 11:41:50 2007 From: pukar at pukar.org.in (PUKAR) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:41:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] [announcements] August 28 : Talk by Vishakha Desai Message-ID: <01e101c7e871$2c82b320$2b66c2cb@freeda> Asia Society India Centre & India China Institute, The New School, NY invite you to Rise of China and India: Implications for Building an "Asian Community" by Vishakha N. Desai, President, Asia Society Tuesday, August 28, 2007 Little Theatre, NCPA, Mumbai Registration: 6:00 PM Talk: 6:30 PM Reception: 7:30-8:30 PM How will the emergence of India and China impact the creation of an Asian community? What are the potential challenges and consequences of developing an Asian community given current bilateral and multilateral relations between China, India and the rest of Asia? How will the resultant intra-Asian dynamics influence the geo-economic and geo-political world order? Dr. Vishakha N. Desai, President of Asia Society, will address these questions both in the context of historical and cultural ties, and current political and economic relations among countries in the region. Dr. Vishakha N. Desai was appointed President of Asia Society in 2004. Prior to her appointment as President she served as Asia Society's Senior Vice President and Director of the Museum and Cultural Programs. She also taught at the University of Massachusetts, Boston University and Columbia University. Dr. Desai holds a B.A. in Political Science from Bombay University and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Asian Art History from the University of Michigan. Limited seating. To Register Please Contact: Jolene Tauro, Tel: +91-22-6610-0888, Fax: +91-22-6610-0887, E-mail: admin at asiasociety.org.in Or Anupamaa Joshi, Tel: +91-22-6574-8152, Fax: +91-22-6664-0561, E-mail: pukar at pukar.org.in -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From wanderlustt at rediffmail.com Mon Aug 27 15:45:12 2007 From: wanderlustt at rediffmail.com (Nomad) Date: 27 Aug 2007 10:15:12 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! Message-ID: <20070827101512.19933.qmail@f5mail51.rediffmail.com> Dear Sadia, The concept of Nationhood was there since the time Men & Women learnt to live in communities, yes its premise has kept evolving over the time from forced annexation because of the ambitions of a ruler to today. I do not know what your area of specialization is, but even a cursory glance at Mythology and History books is enough to answer your poser. Ramayana and Mahabharta are replete with references to Kings and Kingdoms, the term used is Rashtra. Ashoka fought wars till he became a champion of peace. Cholas, Chalukyas, Pandyas, Santhavanas, Lodhis, Mughals. Wonder how come you have not heard of even one. Elsewhere Alexander traveled all the way to India annexing territories along the way. There was the Pax-Romana. Considering the etymology of your name, I will refrain from referring to Darul Islam or Crusades, for you might label me a fascist which is not the case. This was just an off the cuff reply, will get back with a better researched & politically correct reply shortly Cheers!!! Kuber On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 SFatima wrote : >Dear Rahul >I don't agree with you on this. Where has this concept >of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it >there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, or >2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any Shastras? >I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by the >colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many >things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this >concept as it suits our ends. Why? >And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a voice >of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that created >by some individuals (who we may or may not agree >with). > >I think its time we rise above the definition of the >Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a >civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. What >is required is the opening of hearts and minds. > > > >--- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > Corrections to my post: > > Sanjay Kak is the name of the person..and the movie > > was not banned but prevented by Police to be > > screened.I apologise on posting without reading the > > full details.But the basic issue still stands.viz.Is > > the nation justified in preventing from screening > > \banning some forms of expression? > > > > > > --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom > > of > > > expression, > > > I really want to understand where you guys are > > > coming > > > from and I think it is very necessary for the > > people > > > of the country that we get at the bottom of > > > this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot > > > of > > > people in the media. > > > A nation is defined by certain underlying > > > principles.Those principles are not that are > > subject > > > to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is > > > an > > > Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of > > > the > > > state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is > > no > > > process in the framework by which Iran can become > > > secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and > > > some > > > bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. > > > India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants > > to > > > create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not > > have > > > a > > > constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of > > > course is always a recourse.The principle of > > > immutability of borders is one of the principles > > > which > > > is inherent to the existence of every nation > > > state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no > > > nation > > > gives a constitutional process to redraw its > > > borders. > > > So,the only course followers of such an intention > > > have > > > is violence,terrorism etc. > > > So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made > > a > > > movie enabling the ideology which is against the > > > basic > > > underlying principles of the nation.It was > > banned.I > > > do not see your problem with this.Now of > > course,the > > > fact that the movie did enable that ideology or > > > not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be > > > banned. > > > You guys may have risen above the concept of > > nation > > > religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant > > > rise above the definition of itself. > > > (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why > > it > > > comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not > > > good > > > enough.Anyway..) > > > So to ask the nation to allow freedom of > > expression > > > on > > > ideologies which go against its underlying > > > principles > > > and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and > > > strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We > > > dont > > > need no education" as its morning prayer. > > > To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh > > Kak's > > > background or financier is irrelevant here.So is > > the > > > traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected > > > to.If > > > a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala > > > suddenly > > > decide that they want a separate country and start > > > distributing pamphlets,I would support > > confiscating > > > the pamphlets and giving them adequate > > > punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! > > > Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I > > > believe its very important. > > > Hoping to hear from you > > > Best, > > > Rahul > > > > > > --- Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > > Jeebesh > > > > > > > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos > > > in > > > > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > > > > > > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and > > > convince. > > > > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > > > > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > > > > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to > > restrain > > > > our intellectual lives. > > > > > > > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do > > > some > > > > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > > > > > > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > > > > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > > > > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > > > > parents and grandparents, every adult was an > > > "uncle" > > > > or "aunt". > > > > > > > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens > > or > > > > maybe just past them but really a child as most > > > > young men were in those seemingly but largely > > > > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some > > say > > > > since many a centuries from the past) they > > > retained > > > > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > > > > > > > SK also lived there or at least today he > > claims > > > > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your > > own > > > > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace > > > out > > > > some other close relationship. > > > > > > > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people > > took > > > > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > > > > > > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > > > > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > > > > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised > > > the > > > > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > > > > > > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are > > a > > > > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would > > > drive > > > > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > > > > > > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > > > > left abandoned. > > > > - Another sister was raped and killed after > > > that. > > > > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > > > > mutilated her breasts. > > > > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > > > > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on > > a > > > > tree > > > > - He remembers the corpses of young and old > > and > > > of > > > > male and female riddled with bullets > > > > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the > > eyes > > > of > > > > those around him. > > > > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > > > > messages from places meant for worship. > > > > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the > > > eyes > > > > of those around him. > > > > > > > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years > > > after > > > > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life > > together > > > > in new surroundings. He whined every now and > > then, > > > > > > > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He > > met > > > > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories > > and > > > > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > > > > > > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > > > > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet > > >=== message truncated === > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 15:49:13 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:49:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <995a19920708262229v7b0b1d0cq747f7bc6e7193847@mail.gmail.com> References: <995a19920708251447n3b8559dbw77550f79f3751639@mail.gmail.com> <317242.50854.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <995a19920708261052o7fe0942hfb7a6af4faf2d22d@mail.gmail.com> <995a19920708262229v7b0b1d0cq747f7bc6e7193847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708270319m24af874pcbc73cbcc6c3d1c8@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aman, Please go through the following blog link ( http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com). As you read various posts you will yourself connect the sequence of events.For your convenience I am listing events alongside their dates here. 1.Post on Agrasen Collge dtd Aug,19,07(Sunday)..the last line reads *"Hope to see you this Friday ie 24th Aug at Kamla Nehru College at 2.30PM." * We obviously had permission thats why we wrote it. 2.Post on Screening being refused by College authorities..dtd Aug,21,07(Tuesday) 3.Post by Nishant titled"Liberals or Hypocrites" wherein he very clearly without mentioning names says *A few days later they revoke the permission assigning the cause as non-availability of proper facilities. And now we get to know, in the same time slot and on the same day another movie is being screened at the same venue.* 4.Post on Saturday,ie 24th Aug,07. wherein we wrote the post on which you have raised questions. If it is a coincidence that Kak's movie replaced our screening on the same slot,same time,same day..it is a great coincidence which through your journalistic insights you can help us understand. I have stated events as they happened. If you still have reasons to disagree/not trust I will go back to my Wali( i hope you know who a wali is) Asadullah Ghalib ..who for such occassions has said Ya rub na woh samjhe the..na samjhenge meri baat De aur dil to unko..jo na de mujhe zubaan aur May God be with you Rashneek On 8/27/07, Aman Sethi wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra, > > I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing > what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no > way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - > to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. > > Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant > "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open > medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - > without once more, providing anything other than a series of > conjectures- is irresponsible. > > Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ > nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to > verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince > me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not > succeeded in doing so. > > At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt > 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why > it is so hard to take him seriously. > > I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, > especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent > person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would > suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your > computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to > laughing hyenas. > > Best, as always, > Aman > > On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Aman > > > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > > rather)? > > > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated > questions > > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with > passion > > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his > experience. > > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as > a > > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or > Hypocrite?". > > > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces > should > > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly > happened'. > > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, > you > > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > > would be journalism. > > > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships > without > > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones > who > > should report/inform. > > > > > > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > > > Best > > A. > > > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak > , > > do > > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > > is true, that is). > > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > > the law of the > > > > > > land by > > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > > the > > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > > invitation to > > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > > our deep fear to > > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > > people left to > > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > > subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who > knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 27 16:47:15 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:17:15 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <20070827101512.19933.qmail@f5mail51.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <465346.47231.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Kuber Do you think one would be so ignorant so as to not even have a cursory look at the history and mythology of nationalism. The nationhood is there even in the colonies of amoeba. Of course one is aware of these historical references, although most of these treatises are written for/by the ruling class, so we never get to know what the ordinary people of the world/India felt about their nation, or whether it was necessary in those days to whip up the emotions or create euphorias about one's nation, or was is necessary to be patriotic those days to be an Indian. I was only responding to the present day version of nationalism/patriotism which is based on a lot of gas. The present day nationalism (and its version of history) is not so old - it was certainly sowed in the British period. And its flowering only now. I don't want a nationalism which shows a foot to the freedom of expression. Using your own phrases such as "annexation" and the "ambitions of a ruler" which no right thinking person would like to endorse in today's politically correct world, one can assume that a lot of assertion of nationalism can lead to problems and conflicts. For instance, the enforcement of a unified culture on every citizen of a nation (in the name of nationalism). Why is that Hindi is not acceptable to Tamils as a national language? Because a centralized nationlism is forcing it down their throat, and they don't want it. I was simply referring to the artificial/superficialities of nationalism which have creeped into us now - and we need to rise above them. (Alas, by being apologetic about my name you are merely invoking a stereotype. How do I know whether a Nomad/wanderlustt/Kuber is a Parsi or a Swahili or an Inca). --- Nomad wrote: > Dear Sadia, > > The concept of Nationhood was there since the time > Men & Women learnt to live in communities, yes its > premise has kept evolving over the time from forced > annexation because of the ambitions of a ruler to > today. > > I do not know what your area of specialization is, > but even a cursory glance at Mythology and History > books is enough to answer your poser. > > Ramayana and Mahabharta are replete with references > to Kings and Kingdoms, the term used is Rashtra. > Ashoka fought wars till he became a champion of > peace. Cholas, Chalukyas, Pandyas, Santhavanas, > Lodhis, Mughals. Wonder how come you have not heard > of even one. > > Elsewhere Alexander traveled all the way to India > annexing territories along the way. There was the > Pax-Romana. > > Considering the etymology of your name, I will > refrain from referring to Darul Islam or Crusades, > for you might label me a fascist which is not the > case. > > This was just an off the cuff reply, will get back > with a better researched & politically correct reply > shortly > > Cheers!!! > Kuber > > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 SFatima wrote : > >Dear Rahul > >I don't agree with you on this. Where has this > concept > >of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it > >there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, > or > >2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any > Shastras? > >I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by > the > >colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many > >things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this > >concept as it suits our ends. Why? > >And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a > voice > >of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that > created > >by some individuals (who we may or may not agree > >with). > > > >I think its time we rise above the definition of > the > >Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a > >civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. > What > >is required is the opening of hearts and minds. > > > > > > > >--- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 17:18:00 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:18:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <465346.47231.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20070827101512.19933.qmail@f5mail51.rediffmail.com> <465346.47231.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708270448v2e17fc3cid863c443816fd52e@mail.gmail.com> For Fatima ,The concept of nationalism starts with British Raj in India Reason : It suits Fatimas argument ......... God Bless On 8/27/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > Dear Kuber > Do you think one would be so ignorant so as to not > even have a cursory look at the history and mythology > of nationalism. The nationhood is there even in the > colonies of amoeba. Of course one is aware of these > historical references, although most of these > treatises are written for/by the ruling class, so we > never get to know what the ordinary people of the > world/India felt about their nation, or whether it was > necessary in those days to whip up the emotions or > create euphorias about one's nation, or was is > necessary to be patriotic those days to be an Indian. > > I was only responding to the present day version of > nationalism/patriotism which is based on a lot of gas. > > The present day nationalism (and its version of > history) is not so old - it was certainly sowed in the > British period. And its flowering only now. I don't > want a nationalism which shows a foot to the freedom > of expression. > > Using your own phrases such as "annexation" and the > "ambitions of a ruler" which no right thinking person > would like to endorse in today's politically correct > world, one can assume that a lot of assertion of > nationalism can lead to problems and conflicts. For > instance, the enforcement of a unified culture on > every citizen of a nation (in the name of > nationalism). Why is that Hindi is not acceptable to > Tamils as a national language? Because a centralized > nationlism is forcing it down their throat, and they > don't want it. I was simply referring to the > artificial/superficialities of nationalism which have > creeped into us now - and we need to rise above them. > > (Alas, by being apologetic about my name you are > merely invoking a stereotype. How do I know whether a > Nomad/wanderlustt/Kuber is a Parsi or a Swahili or an > Inca). > > > > --- Nomad wrote: > > > Dear Sadia, > > > > The concept of Nationhood was there since the time > > Men & Women learnt to live in communities, yes its > > premise has kept evolving over the time from forced > > annexation because of the ambitions of a ruler to > > today. > > > > I do not know what your area of specialization is, > > but even a cursory glance at Mythology and History > > books is enough to answer your poser. > > > > Ramayana and Mahabharta are replete with references > > to Kings and Kingdoms, the term used is Rashtra. > > Ashoka fought wars till he became a champion of > > peace. Cholas, Chalukyas, Pandyas, Santhavanas, > > Lodhis, Mughals. Wonder how come you have not heard > > of even one. > > > > Elsewhere Alexander traveled all the way to India > > annexing territories along the way. There was the > > Pax-Romana. > > > > Considering the etymology of your name, I will > > refrain from referring to Darul Islam or Crusades, > > for you might label me a fascist which is not the > > case. > > > > This was just an off the cuff reply, will get back > > with a better researched & politically correct reply > > shortly > > > > Cheers!!! > > Kuber > > > > > > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 SFatima wrote : > > >Dear Rahul > > >I don't agree with you on this. Where has this > > concept > > >of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it > > >there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, > > or > > >2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any > > Shastras? > > >I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by > > the > > >colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many > > >things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this > > >concept as it suits our ends. Why? > > >And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a > > voice > > >of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that > > created > > >by some individuals (who we may or may not agree > > >with). > > > > > >I think its time we rise above the definition of > > the > > >Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a > > >civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. > > What > > >is required is the opening of hearts and minds. > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > > > DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click > away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 17:22:05 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <644611.56150.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <804408.42456.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul A great posting by you. It is well articulated and argued and makes it's points effectively. The part which you were hesitant about (for it's clarity) was for me an excellent summary: "You guys may have risen above the concept of nation religion etc, but nation itself, by definition, cant rise above the definition of itself." In my opinion, anyone who thinks/believes otherwise is living in a "la la land" confined to their own 'la la mind". The societal evolution of humans has brought us to the point where there are Nation States. The Nations might re-organise themselves or redraw boundaries by common consent or by force and new Nation(s) might emerge, but some or the other sort of Nation(s) is the end result. That is how the world is today. Will this change? Maybe it will in the future but nothing foreseeable. Certainly a few 'la la landers' wishing it were so will not bring about a change. These hypocrites enjoy all the benefits and freedoms only because a defined Nation makes them available. Yet they want to be seen as "global citizens of a la la land" with "freedoms" that might strike at the very entity (Nation) that protects/ensures their "freedoms" to start with. The 'la la landers' should be rounded up (another role-playing scenario) and dropped on an unclaimed and uninhabited (by humans) island. They will themselves reinvent the wheel. Perhaps they will start by evaluating the possibilities of their physical freedom after surveying what predator animals are resident. Then they will further define allowable freedoms after taking into account the predators amongst themselves. They will make Laws. They will set boundaries (literal and figurative) to be respected and regulate "freedoms". They will make a Constitution to serve them as a "Vision/Mission" statement and from it derive Laws. They will make a Nation. A cliche sometimes best emphasises a point, as in "one person's freedom ends where another person's begins". There is no unbridled freedom. Even the freedom to think is regulated (psychiatric-drugging intervention for disturbed behaviour or strictures over subliminal messaging are just two simple examples) There is only one entity that respects no "freedoms". No it is not any God or Prabhu or Allah or whatever. Only the forces of Nature. Nature respects no boundaries. Kshmendra Kaul Rahul Asthana wrote: Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom of expression, I really want to understand where you guys are coming from and I think it is very necessary for the people of the country that we get at the bottom of this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a lot of people in the media. A nation is defined by certain underlying principles.Those principles are not that are subject to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran is an Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle of the state and even if 99% want to be secular,there is no process in the framework by which Iran can become secular,unless of course,there is a civil war and some bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants to create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not have a constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence of course is always a recourse.The principle of immutability of borders is one of the principles which is inherent to the existence of every nation state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no nation gives a constitutional process to redraw its borders. So,the only course followers of such an intention have is violence,terrorism etc. So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak made a movie enabling the ideology which is against the basic underlying principles of the nation.It was banned.I do not see your problem with this.Now of course,the fact that the movie did enable that ideology or not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be banned. You guys may have risen above the concept of nation religion etc, but nation itself,by definition,cant rise above the definition of itself. (I think this is a simple statement,dont know why it comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is not good enough.Anyway..) So to ask the nation to allow freedom of expression on ideologies which go against its underlying principles and which if enabled,can only lead to violence and strife,is like asking a primary school to use "We dont need no education" as its morning prayer. To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh Kak's background or financier is irrelevant here.So is the traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected to.If a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala suddenly decide that they want a separate country and start distributing pamphlets,I would support confiscating the pamphlets and giving them adequate punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each other.I believe its very important. Hoping to hear from you Best, Rahul --- Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Jeebesh > > The pain in your words is touching. The pathos in > your questions will move the coldest of hearts. > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and convince. > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live with > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to restrain > our intellectual lives. > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's do some > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > It was a small world, a village of sorts where > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins were > called "my brother" and "my sister", other than > parents and grandparents, every adult was an "uncle" > or "aunt". > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his teens or > maybe just past them but really a child as most > young men were in those seemingly but largely > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some say > since many a centuries from the past) they retained > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > SK also lived there or at least today he claims > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your own > age group was a "cousin" if you could not trace out > some other close relationship. > > 18 years back an Exodus of Jeebesh's people took > place. Everyone knew everyone else. > > Jeebesh knows they had not known enough. The > terrain had parted and lake-seas receded, the > volcanoes had gone quiet. No one had recognised the > signs of upheavals that were to come. > > For Jeebesh today, memories of those times are a > whirling blur of images and sounds. They would drive > him mad if he could afford to lose his sanity: > > - Jeebesh's sister was picked up and raped and > left abandoned. > - Another sister was raped and killed after that. > - Another sister was raped and killed but they > mutilated her breasts. > - Jeebesh's mother was not spared either. > - Jeebesh remembers his father hanging dead on a > tree > - He remembers the corpses of young and old and of > male and female riddled with bullets > - Most of all he remembers the fear in the eyes of > those around him. > - He remembers the loudspeakers blaring hate > messages from places meant for worship. > - He remembers his own fears reflected in the eyes > of those around him. > > Inspite of that "Trauma List", for 16 years after > those days, Jeebesh tried to put his life together > in new surroundings. He whined every now and then, > he sobbed in the loneliness of alien lands. He met > up with tiny groups to recount happy memories and > sing songs of his Lost Land, if they could. > > Not many in the New Land seemed to acknowledge > that Jeebesh existed. Jeebesh led a quiet existence. > Jeebesh's existence had been quietened. > > In the 17th year of the Exodus, Jeebesh's "cousin" > SK made a film. Jeebesh got to know about it. > > SK's film eulogised those responsible for > Jeebesh's 'Trauma List". Self confessed perpetrators > of some cases and supporters of other murderers and > rapists. SK's film celebrated them and their call > for "Aazadi". > > SK forgot that in the seeking of "Hurriyat" > (Freedom) lay their merry-go-round of barbarianism > that was Jeebesh's whirling blur of images and > sounds from his "Trauma List". > > Will Jeebesh try to have the screening of SK's > film stopped? What will Jeebesh's decision be? > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > We > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > the law of the > > land by > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > censor certificate, > > the > > Police did the rest. > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > invitation to > policing of our intellectual lives? > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > our deep fear to > live life with disagreements? > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > people left to > argue with and convince? > > best > jeebesh > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From rashneek at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 17:37:23 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:37:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <465346.47231.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20070827101512.19933.qmail@f5mail51.rediffmail.com> <465346.47231.qm@web8403.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708270507p40a1ed73mcd62193de182b2e4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Fatima and Kuber, We did not have a choice on either our nationhood or religion.No one asked us where we would like to be born or which religion would you like to follow. This whole concept of nation as it is percieved today is very narrow.Besidesthe boundaries of nations have changed so many times in the past that one doesnt really know what his nation is or will be.Like people living in former Soviet Union were Soviets and felt proud/sad about it and now they are ukranians,belarusians etc etc and feel sad/happy/proud about that. Well we may be digressing from the topic because supposedly we started with expression of freedom.Expression of freedom is much a right as a responsibilty.So it is upto "us"to use it judiciously and rationally.Everytime we seek rights for our freedom of speech we must be prepared to give those rights to others who may disagree with us. REgards Rashneek On 8/27/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > Dear Kuber > Do you think one would be so ignorant so as to not > even have a cursory look at the history and mythology > of nationalism. The nationhood is there even in the > colonies of amoeba. Of course one is aware of these > historical references, although most of these > treatises are written for/by the ruling class, so we > never get to know what the ordinary people of the > world/India felt about their nation, or whether it was > necessary in those days to whip up the emotions or > create euphorias about one's nation, or was is > necessary to be patriotic those days to be an Indian. > > I was only responding to the present day version of > nationalism/patriotism which is based on a lot of gas. > > The present day nationalism (and its version of > history) is not so old - it was certainly sowed in the > British period. And its flowering only now. I don't > want a nationalism which shows a foot to the freedom > of expression. > > Using your own phrases such as "annexation" and the > "ambitions of a ruler" which no right thinking person > would like to endorse in today's politically correct > world, one can assume that a lot of assertion of > nationalism can lead to problems and conflicts. For > instance, the enforcement of a unified culture on > every citizen of a nation (in the name of > nationalism). Why is that Hindi is not acceptable to > Tamils as a national language? Because a centralized > nationlism is forcing it down their throat, and they > don't want it. I was simply referring to the > artificial/superficialities of nationalism which have > creeped into us now - and we need to rise above them. > > (Alas, by being apologetic about my name you are > merely invoking a stereotype. How do I know whether a > Nomad/wanderlustt/Kuber is a Parsi or a Swahili or an > Inca). > > > > --- Nomad wrote: > > > Dear Sadia, > > > > The concept of Nationhood was there since the time > > Men & Women learnt to live in communities, yes its > > premise has kept evolving over the time from forced > > annexation because of the ambitions of a ruler to > > today. > > > > I do not know what your area of specialization is, > > but even a cursory glance at Mythology and History > > books is enough to answer your poser. > > > > Ramayana and Mahabharta are replete with references > > to Kings and Kingdoms, the term used is Rashtra. > > Ashoka fought wars till he became a champion of > > peace. Cholas, Chalukyas, Pandyas, Santhavanas, > > Lodhis, Mughals. Wonder how come you have not heard > > of even one. > > > > Elsewhere Alexander traveled all the way to India > > annexing territories along the way. There was the > > Pax-Romana. > > > > Considering the etymology of your name, I will > > refrain from referring to Darul Islam or Crusades, > > for you might label me a fascist which is not the > > case. > > > > This was just an off the cuff reply, will get back > > with a better researched & politically correct reply > > shortly > > > > Cheers!!! > > Kuber > > > > > > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 SFatima wrote : > > >Dear Rahul > > >I don't agree with you on this. Where has this > > concept > > >of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it > > >there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, > > or > > >2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any > > Shastras? > > >I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by > > the > > >colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many > > >things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this > > >concept as it suits our ends. Why? > > >And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a > > voice > > >of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that > > created > > >by some individuals (who we may or may not agree > > >with). > > > > > >I think its time we rise above the definition of > > the > > >Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a > > >civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. > > What > > >is required is the opening of hearts and minds. > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > > > DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click > away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Aug 27 18:22:34 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:22:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings Message-ID: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Dear All, This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character and reputation of a person. A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher made on the 25th of August said that Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala Nehru College have communicated to me that - "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any individual or body." This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression that we all enjoy on this list. regards, Shuddha From fmadre at free.fr Mon Aug 27 18:29:58 2007 From: fmadre at free.fr (fmadre at free.fr) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:59:58 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Message-ID: <20070827145958.d2guiwslxa84c4kg@imp4.free.fr> > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > individual or body." > > This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > baseless. no, it doesn't clearly indicate this. it is just a standard statement from the organizers telling that they can schedule or cancel what they want, nothing more. > I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity > of this list and its members, I don't think so it was just an attack on the named person, emanating from one individual kinda boring too, imho From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 18:37:09 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:37:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708270607v35de6036x1b73dce03ac24486@mail.gmail.com> > >>>>>>>On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter > the faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala > Nehru College have communicated to me that - > > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > individual or body.">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shuddhu , does that mean that that even the screening of "jashn E Azadi" was NOT prevailed upon by any individual or a group ? Well, for once I must believe you and appreciate the Wide Angle Film Society of kamla Nehru College for not allowing the "jashn E Azadi". Lastlt the tongue in cheek remark of Wide Angle Film Society which reads as "The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show or cancel any film screening *without having to be accountable* to any individual or body." Do you understand that ? If not ...you never would.... God Bless From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 18:40:44 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <995a19920708262229v7b0b1d0cq747f7bc6e7193847@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <683126.81224.qm@web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Aman Let me start with a piece of friendly advice. Do not represent yourself as a "journalist". You are a sorry specimen. I will substantiate it. 1. You find yourself incapable of "verifying Rashneek's sequence of events". What a "journalist" you are Aman. One would think that it is NTK information or that you have to pull out a Battle Plan from the Ministry of Defence. 2. You suggest that Rashneek might be "simply lying". You are willing to risk that judgement without having any supportive information or evidence to reach it. Quite a "journalist" you are Aman. 3. You taunt me with """"" Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant "investigative work" seems a trifle premature""""" Aman, I have re-read my posting and do not see myself having congratulated anyone for """brilliant "investigative work". So Aman, for you, a "distortionist" might be a better tag than "journalist" 4. I agree with you Aman, some homework must be done , especially by a presumed "journalist" It is interesting that you admit that the likes of Aman will be "reduced" to "laughing hyenas". "Reduced" perhaps aptly describes your comeuppance. Inadvertent admission? Did you know Aman that the hyenas "laugh" is described as the equivalent of a dog's "bark"? Do you still see yourself evolving journalistically into a "laughing hyena"? The most delightful story about "laughing hyenas" (that you Aman aspire to be) is from African folklore: """"When the Creator returned he was very angry with the hyena for destroying the beautiful steenbok and he took a burning log from the fire and shoved it up the hyena's rear. The hyena howled and he rushed off into the bush in his shame and despair. And the hyena is still so ashamed and sorry for his mistake that he cannot even cry and his tears come out as desperate laughter.""""""" Kshmendra Kaul Aman Sethi wrote: Dear Kshmendra, I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - without once more, providing anything other than a series of conjectures- is irresponsible. Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not succeeded in doing so. At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why it is so hard to take him seriously. I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to laughing hyenas. Best, as always, Aman On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Aman > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > rather)? > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated questions > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with passion > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his experience. > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite?". > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces should > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly happened'. > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, you > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > would be journalism. > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships without > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones who > should report/inform. > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > Best > A. > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , > do > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > Pawan Durani > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > is true, that is). > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > the law of the > > > > > land by > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > the > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > invitation to > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > our deep fear to > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > people left to > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > best > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From amitabh at sarai.net Mon Aug 27 19:04:05 2007 From: amitabh at sarai.net (Amitabh Kumar) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:04:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: <683126.81224.qm@web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <995a19920708262229v7b0b1d0cq747f7bc6e7193847@mail.gmail.com> <683126.81224.qm@web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Please revert back to the topic of discussion and abstain from attacking someone personally.This is a public list. If you have something against an individual, I think it would be in all our interest that you post a mail to him and not disgrace yourself so openly. On 8/27/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Aman > > Let me start with a piece of friendly advice. Do not represent yourself > as a "journalist". You are a sorry specimen. I will substantiate it. > > 1. You find yourself incapable of "verifying Rashneek's sequence of > events". What a "journalist" you are Aman. One would think that it is NTK > information or that you have to pull out a Battle Plan from the Ministry of > Defence. > > 2. You suggest that Rashneek might be "simply lying". You are willing to > risk that judgement without having any supportive information or evidence to > reach it. Quite a "journalist" you are Aman. > > 3. You taunt me with """"" Further, to then congratulate the said author > for brilliant > "investigative work" seems a trifle premature""""" > > Aman, I have re-read my posting and do not see myself having > congratulated anyone for """brilliant "investigative work". > > So Aman, for you, a "distortionist" might be a better tag than > "journalist" > > 4. I agree with you Aman, some homework must be done , especially by a > presumed "journalist" > > It is interesting that you admit that the likes of Aman will be > "reduced" to "laughing hyenas". "Reduced" perhaps aptly describes your > comeuppance. Inadvertent admission? > > Did you know Aman that the hyenas "laugh" is described as the equivalent > of a dog's "bark"? Do you still see yourself evolving journalistically into > a "laughing hyena"? > > The most delightful story about "laughing hyenas" (that you Aman aspire > to be) is from African folklore: > > """"When the Creator returned he was very angry with the hyena for > destroying the beautiful steenbok and he took a burning log from the fire > and shoved it up the hyena's rear. The hyena howled and he rushed off into > the bush in his shame and despair. > > And the hyena is still so ashamed and sorry for his mistake that he > cannot even cry and his tears come out as desperate laughter.""""""" > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing > what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no > way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - > to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. > > Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant > "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open > medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - > without once more, providing anything other than a series of > conjectures- is irresponsible. > > Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ > nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to > verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince > me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not > succeeded in doing so. > > At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt > 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why > it is so hard to take him seriously. > > I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, > especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent > person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would > suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your > computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to > laughing hyenas. > > Best, as always, > Aman > > On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Aman > > > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > > rather)? > > > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated > questions > > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with > passion > > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his > experience. > > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a > > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or > Hypocrite?". > > > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces > should > > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly > happened'. > > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, > you > > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > > would be journalism. > > > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships > without > > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones > who > > should report/inform. > > > > > > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > > > Best > > A. > > > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak > , > > do > > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > > is true, that is). > > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > > the law of the > > > > > > land by > > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > > the > > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > > invitation to > > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > > our deep fear to > > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > > people left to > > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > > subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who > knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Building a website is a piece of cake. > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- www.amitabhkumar.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 19:13:21 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Message-ID: <397742.7402.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Shuddha Are you naive enough to except the college to give you any confirmation in writing other than a vaguely worded statement. The Principal is in any case blatantly lying. Let's forget for the moment about Ashok Pandit's film, but wasn't the screening of Sanjay Kak's film cancelled too. I thought all the furore was over the Police having effected that. If it is so, what credibility does the Principal have when he/she states "....fully within their rights to show or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any individual or body....." Isnt the Police a "Body". Shuddha, why dont you also tell us the wording of the clarification you sought from the College. It might tell us what kind of questions you asked and the slant of those questions that might have forced the College to give a vague answer. If there is sincerity in establishing the facts (to some extent) with an unbiased frame of mind, Kamla Nehru College should be asked a few simple questions: 1. Was there a request Booking for Ashok Pandit's film on a particular date and time (by whosoever claims they had Booked it) 2. Was that Ashok Pandit film scheduled to be shown? If not, why not? 3. If yes, was it subsequently cancelled? If yes, who cancelled it (and maybe why)? 4. Was a Sanjay Kak film scheduled to be shown? 5. If yes, what date and time? 6. Was that subsequently cancelled? If yes, why? Only the answers to all of these questions (and intelligent deductions) will establish some measure of "truth". Kshmendra Kaul Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: Dear All, This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character and reputation of a person. A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala Nehru College have communicated to me that - "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any individual or body." This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression that we all enjoy on this list. regards, Shuddha _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 20:25:56 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK Message-ID: Good job Kshmendra. For last few hours I really wanted to reply to Aman; he has made a laughing stock of himself by making self-contradictory statement. Your blunt mail sums it up all well. Indeed, as someone just mentioned; activities of a certain "media savy individual" and his "lobby" have been much disturbing for past some days. Its a work of mere frustration. The reply from the college authority is a of a very obvious nature. Who on earth will agree that he used his contacts in the college and elsewhere to scuttle someone's screening and then over that put his own screening in the same time slot; and same day? What an act of bravery he did / Isn't it ? Its sad to see a person of so much respect to do such pity things just to please a certain lobby of maybe his masters. And, then what we see is a CRY BABBY message posted on the Moderated blog of his; which only makes you more sad. Its high time that we don't keep mum and suffer just because we are not "well connected". One needs to make them realise the trap in which they are floating. Aditya Raj Kaul www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:10:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK > screening Cancelled > To: Aman Sethi , reader-list at sarai.net > Message-ID: <683126.81224.qm at web57212.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Aman > > Let me start with a piece of friendly advice. Do not represent yourself as > a "journalist". You are a sorry specimen. I will substantiate it. > > 1. You find yourself incapable of "verifying Rashneek's sequence of > events". What a "journalist" you are Aman. One would think that it is NTK > information or that you have to pull out a Battle Plan from the Ministry of > Defence. > > 2. You suggest that Rashneek might be "simply lying". You are willing to > risk that judgement without having any supportive information or evidence to > reach it. Quite a "journalist" you are Aman. > > 3. You taunt me with """"" Further, to then congratulate the said author > for brilliant > "investigative work" seems a trifle premature""""" > > Aman, I have re-read my posting and do not see myself having congratulated > anyone for """brilliant "investigative work". > > So Aman, for you, a "distortionist" might be a better tag than > "journalist" > > 4. I agree with you Aman, some homework must be done , especially by a > presumed "journalist" > > It is interesting that you admit that the likes of Aman will be "reduced" > to "laughing hyenas". "Reduced" perhaps aptly describes your comeuppance. > Inadvertent admission? > > Did you know Aman that the hyenas "laugh" is described as the equivalent > of a dog's "bark"? Do you still see yourself evolving journalistically into > a "laughing hyena"? > > The most delightful story about "laughing hyenas" (that you Aman aspire to > be) is from African folklore: > > """"When the Creator returned he was very angry with the hyena for > destroying the beautiful steenbok and he took a burning log from the fire > and shoved it up the hyena's rear. The hyena howled and he rushed off into > the bush in his shame and despair. > > And the hyena is still so ashamed and sorry for his mistake that he cannot > even cry and his tears come out as desperate laughter.""""""" > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > Dear Kshmendra, > > I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing > what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no > way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - > to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. > > Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant > "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open > medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - > without once more, providing anything other than a series of > conjectures- is irresponsible. > > Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ > nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to > verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince > me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not > succeeded in doing so. > > At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt > 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why > it is so hard to take him seriously. > > I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, > especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent > person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would > suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your > computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to > laughing hyenas. > > Best, as always, > Aman > > On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Aman > > > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > > rather)? > > > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated > questions > > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with > passion > > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his > experience. > > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a > > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or > Hypocrite?". > > > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces > should > > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly > happened'. > > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, > you > > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > > would be journalism. > > > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships > without > > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones > who > > should report/inform. > > > > > > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > > > Best > > A. > > > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak > , > > do > > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > > is true, that is). > > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > > the law of the > > > > > > land by > > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > > the > > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > > invitation to > > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > > our deep fear to > > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > > people left to > > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > > > best > > > > > jeebesh > -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From shveta at sarai.net Mon Aug 27 21:04:42 2007 From: shveta at sarai.net (Shveta) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:04:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Traffic JAM Message-ID: <46D2EF12.6050000@sarai.net> Dear Fellow Subscribers, On the list of late, I feel a little like being trapped in a traffic jam with a few drivers unable to unlock their hands from the blaring horns! The links, readings, poetry, thoughts, anecdotes, descriptions, travelogues, jokes, notes, questions, reflections, links to images and sounds, bibliographies, etc that have made the life of the list seem to have become silenced. For articles, animations, imaginations and reflections on how beautiful and safe roads can be without traffic signals... http://www.hamilton-baillie.co.uk/articles.htm For a video about changing traffic in Beijing, and a conversation with a parking attendant in a locality, about the difficulty of the work... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNG4qMS5dzs warmly shveta From yasir.media at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 21:25:09 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:55:09 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] quratulain / azra raza Message-ID: <5af37bb0708270855j4417697ao8a2fd2ffcf4b975d@mail.gmail.com> http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2007/08/qurratulain-h-1.html From lmadhura77 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 22:43:08 2007 From: lmadhura77 at gmail.com (madhura l) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] study on wedding videos Message-ID: <4dea04310708271013j1907e4c4se7f39bc537397d93@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone! I had read about a small research that was conducted on wedding videos in Delhi (in a studio in Kamla Nagar, i think) possibly housed in Sarai, but now have no memory as to who had conducted it or what year it was done. If anyone can provide a lead on this, it would be great! Thanks! Madhura From mail at shivamvij.com Tue Aug 28 00:17:25 2007 From: mail at shivamvij.com (Shivam Vij) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:47:25 +0300 Subject: [Reader-list] Sanjay Kak's response Message-ID: <9c06aab30708271147ned3ca1m68182c70155df76b@mail.gmail.com> The heated discussions here about the screening of Sanjay Kak's film allegedly over another film have left me wondering about Sanjay Kak's response. Sure enough - it is there on the Jash-e-Azadi blog, and my apologie if someone has already pointed that out. I take the liberty to post it here in its entirety in the hope that some of this malice will be put to rest and good sense will prevail - thouh I know that is not going to happen! I find Sanjay's response convincing and it doesn't even need to be said the attacks on the film are utterly bigoted. But Sanjay's response moves me to urge him to make the entire film available online for free, should this be feasible. Let them go to the police and have YouTube blocked, many thousand will raise their hands for free speech. best shivam o o o o o o o [ blogflash 14 : heavy handed criticism! ] http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/blogflash-14-heavy-handed-criticism/ This morning there was a call from the Hauz Khas Police Station, from Station House Officer Kukreti, asking if there was a screening of the film planned for later in the day at a college in their jurisdiction. (There was one planned, as part of the ongoing film-club run within this undergraduate institution by the media students. And this was the second call: last evening Sub Inspector Rajiv Kumar from the same Police Station had called.) Once again, like in Mumbai, the anxieties of the police were fuelled by a specific "tip-off": they had received a two-page written complaint informing them that the film was being screened without a censor certificate, and invoked a past history of provocation– starting from a 'noisy' screening at the Habitat Center Film Club, and all the way up to the 'dvd seizure' by the Mumbai Police only three weeks ago. The complaint (by one Sunil Tikoo) was comprehensive, and included images of the Mumbai 'seizure' (probably downloaded from this very blog!) and helpfully accompanied by my cell phone number. So instead of previewing the film with the students, I have an afternoon off to write this. And contemplate how you can disrupt screenings, then make those disruptions the grounds to create further disruptions. Must make sense to someone! What I also still fail to understand is the sheer energy with which a group of people have been tracking the film around, filing written complaints about it, following the complaints up with the police, scanning the net for news of more "illegal" screenings… I mean what are they afraid of? If this film doesn't meet the standards that people have set for documentary films, surely viewers will just dismiss it and move on? The largest screening we've done recently was at the Osian Cine-fan festival last month in New Delhi: from the evidence of the screening and the Q&A, people were moved – and disturbed – by the film. And the evidence from previews in 10 cities doesn't seem to suggest that viewers – or indeed the press – have been driven into paroxysms of rage, or discontent, nothing. So what's up? Why try to come in the way of the film and it's audience? Surely if the arguments that the film is making are incomplete, flawed, one-sided, whatever, surely people will be able to figure that out? Or is the argument about Kashmir in the Indian mind so fragile, so constructed, and so hollow, that even one film that refuses to buy into that brittle construct is seen as a mortal threat? Many of us have spent years talking about State censorship and how we must fight it – here the state, in the form of the Mumbai and Delhi Police, seems to be doing no more than fulfilling the censorial impulses of a section of people. (Which is why I sometimes wonder: is this still the State apparatus, but working through the benign cover of a section of people? Not easy to figure out.) I know the argument has been made that the film represents only 'one-side' of the argument. But if this alone were to be grounds for stopping films, I can think of a few that would qualify strongly. We've seen other 'one-sided' masala films on Kashmir failing to pull in even a weeks crowd into a cinema theatre (can't remember the title, but could it be Barf?). There are other equally one-dimensional non-fiction compilations that have to be shoved down people's throats – and still have no takers. So why not let Mother Nature take her course – let the strong arguments survive, and the fluff fly away. But let the audiences decide. Not the Police. And not the invocation of the Censor Board. We welcome responses. (Abuse will have to trickle away elsewhere!) From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 00:18:11 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:48:11 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] from mirpur - azad kashmir Message-ID: <5af37bb0708271148m677010c9n6962f3d768e81a2f@mail.gmail.com> http://www.shakkhan.com/index.htm From yasir.media at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 00:18:28 2007 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (yasir ~) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:48:28 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] art of pehlwani Message-ID: <5af37bb0708271148v1563b754g73f87befc42f86c3@mail.gmail.com> http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/homistan/art_of_pehlwani.html http://pakistaniat.com/2006/08/19/pehalwan-ji-wrestling-no-more/ ... the comments on Chapati Mystery win + + more? http://www.bigsteel.iwarp.com/Articles2/IndianClubs/Clubs.html http://www.polishsportshof.com/bios/Zbyszko_s.html From kaksanjay at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 00:25:26 2007 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:25:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Message-ID: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddhabrata Since my name (or at least one very like mine) is at the center of some of what has been going on in this space, I *should* be grateful to you for taking the trouble to get the college concerned to give a clarification on these two remarkably well discussed *non*-screenings. But I find I'm faintly disappointed with your responses: I mean, I was actually beginning to enjoy reading what new act of villiany My Name might be up to next, or where the hidden skeins would lead the intrepid unravellers, or indeed what new threat might be posed to the Nation next by My Name... (But you've already had a sneak preview of that have'nt you, after the thrilling Cancelled Screenings and Secret Funding chapters, we've had a hint of Threatening Phone Calls a few days ago, did we not? Watch this space, there will be more to come...) I know you would like a return to the Sarai Reader List as a place of observation, reflection, whimsy, insight and other worthy ideals. But why would you want to spoil our party? I havent had so much fun since I read the odd chapter of the new Harry Potter. And most of your 3000 odd subscribers seem quite happy with all this too: why mess with a winning formula? Best Sanjay Kak On 8/27/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > Dear All, > > This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed > many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character > and reputation of a person. > > A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that > Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening > at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. > > On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the > faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala > Nehru College have communicated to me that - > > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > individual or body." > > This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait > until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in > Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. > > I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity > of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in > insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and > attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression > that we all enjoy on this list. > > regards, > > Shuddha > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 01:00:41 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:00:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Changing the face of politics in DU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ritwik Agrawal Date: Aug 28, 2007 12:55 AM Subject: Changing the face of politics in DU To: Aaditya Dar , Aditya Raj Kaul < adityarajkaul at gmail.com>, Nikhita Arora , aldeena at unitedstudents.in, ranjani angelanister < ranjani.highonlife at gmail.com>, Abhinav Verma , artisteblue at yahoo.com, anchal dhar , Aman SabeRWinG Dhesi , "Arjun Kumar (Exams -DO NOT DISTURB)" , Priyanka Agarwal , Sonakshi Babbar , Olina Banerji < oli.banerji at gmail.com>, swati ~ pics uploaded , "#* finally off2 study!!!bubye.." , sourav banerjee < free2_rhyme_u at yahoo.co.in>, akhil behl , Parul Batra , james bond , blackleopard92 at gmail.com, bruno at targetpg.com, Aditya Bhatla < adityabhatla86 at gmail.com>, bhi ---ooooohhhhhhhoooooo , Tahir Raj Bhasin , "Nupur Mittal of La La Land...zooks" , Deepali Chandra < jaipur_dil at yahoo.co.in>, Utathya C , " yashadsharma at Rediffmail.Com" , "pri*- jst caught in poignant undertow......." , chirag talwar , "adorable_vishi at yahoo.co.in" < adorable_vishi at yahoo.co.in>, Ritadhi Chakravarti , chahna gupta , Manit Kathuria < cool_manit100 at hotmail.com>, Dhruv Suri , Debjani Dutta , Pankhuri Dasgupta < very_funny_gal at yahoo.com>, devika malik , Dilip Simeon , "pooja shali -EXAM TIME..!!!!" < poojashali at gmail.com>, "OOOOPPPSSS!!!!!! EXAMZZZ.. Not again!!!" < swatiprabhu_chelsea at yahoo.co.in>, Hellow Earthlings , "nobody dies a virgin,,life fucks everyone" , Vasav - The Diet Coke of Evil , "Countdown begins for....26 dec...my bday!!!!!" , theres one for all!!!cheers!! , "vinayak got feeds..." < vinayak.razdan at gmail.com>, Aseem Faraz Kaul , Nimesh Das Guru , Prateek Goel , Garima Gupta , Hemant Goyal < goyal.hemant at gmail.com>, Gursimran Khamba , Siddharth Gupta , gunashrit at hotmail.com, gbaraya at gmail.com, Abhas Gupta , "Miracle.... is making its way 2wards me" , Kartik Aneja < harrypotter4 at gmail.com>, harryp934 at yahoo.com, "Sakshi.......... Hot & Happening!!!" , yatin bware of naked man who ofer his shirt , harshit jain , Parul- Life is wat u make of it !!! , Ishita < ishitatiwary at hotmail.com>, ishan choudhary , "Shiva :New Mafia Don in the Making" , "i am on my way.. ..." , "Album Updated thanks.. it was memorable :)" , juhinegi87 at gmail.com, Parikshhit Jha < parikshhitj at gmail.com>, JKIDWAI at rediffmail.com, YOUTH 4 JUSTICE DILLI BACHAO , kush at unitedstudents.in, "r.k. Ranjan" < r.k.ranjan at gmail.com>, ridhi kashyap , arushi lohia < arushilohia at gmail.com>, "Ankit Saxena.......screwed in life" < saxena.ankit at gmail.com>, Lingraj Panda , Ishaan Lall , "bruised by life. wen..................." < shreya.freak at gmail.com>, Vishal Saxena , Vindhya Malik , manuhar , mayank_sharma23 at hotmail.com, "Harish M.V." , Nandini pal , Namita Gupta , "Preetha..... DOIN NOTHN!!!!!" , Neeraj singh < n89_singh at yahoo.co.in>, prabhash dutta now on-air , Anasuya Roy , trivik_verma at hotmail.com, "TaKsHi.... DePrEsSeD........." , velvetrevolver_99 at hotmail.com, Viren Mittal , Rachit Vats , wicked_witch_saba at hotmail.com, Tyler Williams , Ankita Wali , "~~~~~x at ms r 0vr! !!!!!!" < ashish14mehra at gmail.com>, "ankit ~ yipppyy finally me goin to NDA,-)~" < ankitmax at gmail.com>, yvknagpal at yahoo.co.in, Somesh Yechury < someshyechury at hotmail.com>, ashish zutshi , Zara Kaushik , "mustard twang ..." < zaheerpankhuri at gmail.com>, "***vRiNdArOrA*** ..........zindagi rocks !!!!" < vrindarora at gmail.com> Hi. I and a group of friends have decided that we've had enough of money and muscle power dominated politics at Delhi University. We want genuine students to take up issues that actually affect students and work towards constructive resolution of the same. As a result, I've decided to contest for the Delhi University Students Union [for the post of Secretary] as a candidate of the *United Students*group. [www.unitedstudents.in ] Details follow. Please forward this message to as many like minded people as possible. All kinds of support would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ritwik ph: 9873554908 email: ritwik at unitedstudents.in *United Students* has come together as a group of highly motivated Delhi University students who are not only tired with the quality of politics at DU but also want to do something about it: not by organizing seminars alone but by real time intervention, on the ground action and direct engagement. Like a spectator can't alter the fortunes of a football match [he are she can at best back up his favourite team or player] we believe that the only way to impact politics at DU is to participate in a full blooded maner- argue for your points, fight for your votes and create a constituency of those who want responsible leadership. This is how we made the first cut last year. We put ourselves to the test -with very little time - with no money or muscle or organization and yet our candidate *Aaditya Dar* stood third for the president's post, ahead of several established political parties. There is a huge constituency of voters out there who are sick and tired of the inane politics that is normally practiced by the agencies of political parties. *US is a freethinkers forum where anybody who thinks about issues is welcome *.* We are not associated in any manner with any political party*. The response we got last year proves that if we are truly serious about cleaning up politics at DU, there is a huge votebank of support. We are therefore taking forward our work this year by again contesting for Delhi University Students Union. Our candidates are: *Nikhita Arora [studying Economics at Kirori Mal College] for President Ritwik Agrawal [studying Math at Hindu College] For General Secretary Ekta Marwah [studying History at Hans Raj College] for Vice President.* We have an unmatched roster of actions we have taken in the last one year - enough for us to claim that no other students group comes even close - and we will bring this to work in our favour. Come and join US and help the revolution for change begin. *List of firsts by United Students -> *United Students started the *anti reservation movement* from a cafe in Connought Place on April 9, 2006. We organized the first protest against this move at the Jawaharlal Nehru stadium on 11 April, 2006. -> US members initiated the *Justice for Jessica* and *Justice for Priyadarshini* campaigns and are now actively pursuing the *Nitish Katara*case. -> US organized the first *voter registration* drive for students of DU, Jamia and Amity University last year and extended its scope this year. -> US has developed a *10 point manifesto* of key issues that affect students of Delhi University [such as cleaning up girls toilets, cheaper and more efficient transportation, security for girl students, transparency in DUSU accounts] and have worked on it throughout. -> US has written to the Metro Chief asking for *concessional metro fares*for students. US members met the Delhi transport minister to suggest a *shuttle service *for university students. *Good Students, Clean Candidates, Future Leaders. That's US.* For more information: www.unitedstudents.in Our orkut community: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=13038478 Contact US at: mailus at unitedstudents.in - -- Ritwik Agrawal - ---------------------- See my blog: http://ritwikv1.blogspot.com http://www.planetcricket.net http://www.unitedstudents.in (Brand new!) - -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 08:57:32 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:57:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sanjay Kak's response In-Reply-To: <9c06aab30708271147ned3ca1m68182c70155df76b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c06aab30708271147ned3ca1m68182c70155df76b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708272027y42b3848fh1630583c48b89be@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shivam, Now that you wish to restore sanity in here...by calling the other view bigoted.May I ask you how if the terrorists who bombed Hyderabad are caught and walk free one day and someone makes a movie glorifying them as freedom fighters..how would you react(both as an individual and a journalist).It is not enough to comment,look into things from a proper perspective.No one here is against Kashmiri Muslims.Infact as a Pandit they are our own people.Wefeel their pain and suffering but someone chooses Yasin Malik as the mascot /specimen even their most ardent supporters would not look the other way. I would clarify it once again that we are not against Sanjay screening his movie.Had that been the case not even one screening could have happened easily. We acted against his movie because he got our screening blocked.Thats it. Look at the kind of statements he is making after screenings about Pandits.As a journalist you have to be more incisive than an ordinary individual. Regards Rashneek On 8/28/07, Shivam Vij wrote: > > The heated discussions here about the screening of Sanjay Kak's film > allegedly over another film have left me wondering about Sanjay Kak's > response. Sure enough - it is there on the Jash-e-Azadi blog, and my > apologie if someone has already pointed that out. I take the liberty > to post it here in its entirety in the hope that some of this malice > will be put to rest and good sense will prevail - thouh I know that is > not going to happen! > > I find Sanjay's response convincing and it doesn't even need to be > said the attacks on the film are utterly bigoted. But Sanjay's > response moves me to urge him to make the entire film available online > for free, should this be feasible. Let them go to the police and have > YouTube blocked, many thousand will raise their hands for free speech. > > best > shivam > > o o o o o o o > > [ blogflash 14 : heavy handed criticism! ] > > http://kashmirfilm.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/blogflash-14-heavy-handed-criticism/ > > > > This morning there was a call from the Hauz Khas Police Station, from > Station House Officer Kukreti, asking if there was a screening of the > film planned for later in the day at a college in their jurisdiction. > (There was one planned, as part of the ongoing film-club run within > this undergraduate institution by the media students. And this was the > second call: last evening Sub Inspector Rajiv Kumar from the same > Police Station had called.) > > Once again, like in Mumbai, the anxieties of the police were fuelled > by a specific "tip-off": they had received a two-page written > complaint informing them that the film was being screened without a > censor certificate, and invoked a past history of provocation– > starting from a 'noisy' screening at the Habitat Center Film Club, and > all the way up to the 'dvd seizure' by the Mumbai Police only three > weeks ago. The complaint (by one Sunil Tikoo) was comprehensive, and > included images of the Mumbai 'seizure' (probably downloaded from this > very blog!) and helpfully accompanied by my cell phone number. > > So instead of previewing the film with the students, I have an > afternoon off to write this. And contemplate how you can disrupt > screenings, then make those disruptions the grounds to create further > disruptions. Must make sense to someone! > > What I also still fail to understand is the sheer energy with which a > group of people have been tracking the film around, filing written > complaints about it, following the complaints up with the police, > scanning the net for news of more "illegal" screenings… I mean what > are they afraid of? If this film doesn't meet the standards that > people have set for documentary films, surely viewers will just > dismiss it and move on? The largest screening we've done recently was > at the Osian Cine-fan festival last month in New Delhi: from the > evidence of the screening and the Q&A, people were moved – and > disturbed – by the film. And the evidence from previews in 10 cities > doesn't seem to suggest that viewers – or indeed the press – have been > driven into paroxysms of rage, or discontent, nothing. > > So what's up? Why try to come in the way of the film and it's > audience? Surely if the arguments that the film is making are > incomplete, flawed, one-sided, whatever, surely people will be able to > figure that out? Or is the argument about Kashmir in the Indian mind > so fragile, so constructed, and so hollow, that even one film that > refuses to buy into that brittle construct is seen as a mortal threat? > > Many of us have spent years talking about State censorship and how we > must fight it – here the state, in the form of the Mumbai and Delhi > Police, seems to be doing no more than fulfilling the censorial > impulses of a section of people. (Which is why I sometimes wonder: is > this still the State apparatus, but working through the benign cover > of a section of people? Not easy to figure out.) > > I know the argument has been made that the film represents only > 'one-side' of the argument. But if this alone were to be grounds for > stopping films, I can think of a few that would qualify strongly. > We've seen other 'one-sided' masala films on Kashmir failing to pull > in even a weeks crowd into a cinema theatre (can't remember the title, > but could it be Barf?). There are other equally one-dimensional > non-fiction compilations that have to be shoved down people's throats > – and still have no takers. So why not let Mother Nature take her > course – let the strong arguments survive, and the fluff fly away. But > let the audiences decide. Not the Police. And not the invocation of > the Censor Board. > > We welcome responses. (Abuse will have to trickle away elsewhere!) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 08:59:49 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:59:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708272029k4cb974d6ief83a8b1ddeb4f99@mail.gmail.com> Sanjay is so good at sarcasm,pun and criticsm.Only thing he doesnt like ,anyone giving him his dose of medicine. On 8/28/07, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > Dear Shuddhabrata > > Since my name (or at least one very like mine) is at the center of some of > what has been going on in this space, I *should* be grateful to you for > taking the trouble to get the college concerned to give a clarification on > these two remarkably well discussed *non*-screenings. > > But I find I'm faintly disappointed with your responses: I mean, I was > actually beginning to enjoy reading what new act of villiany My Name might > be up to next, or where the hidden skeins would lead the intrepid > unravellers, or indeed what new threat might be posed to the Nation next > by > My Name... (But you've already had a sneak preview of that have'nt you, > after the thrilling Cancelled Screenings and Secret Funding chapters, > we've > had a hint of Threatening Phone Calls a few days ago, did we not? Watch > this > space, there will be more to come...) > > I know you would like a return to the Sarai Reader List as a place of > observation, reflection, whimsy, insight and other worthy ideals. But why > would you want to spoil our party? I havent had so much fun since I read > the > odd chapter of the new Harry Potter. And most of your 3000 odd subscribers > seem quite happy with all this too: why mess with a winning formula? > > Best > > Sanjay Kak > > On 8/27/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed > > many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character > > and reputation of a person. > > > > A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher > got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that > > Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening > > at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. > > > > On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the > > faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala > > > Nehru College have communicated to me that - > > > > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > > individual or body." > > > > This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > > person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > > screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > > baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait > > until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in > > Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. > > > > I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity > > > of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in > > insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and > > attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression > > that we all enjoy on this list. > > > > regards, > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 09:25:07 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:25:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly Cancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708272055l23f84109h7703297b7b0a54fa@mail.gmail.com> Alex Halley has said "Either you deal with what is the reality, or you can be sure that the reality is going to deal with you." Why not accept the reality ? God Bless ,Peace To All. On 8/28/07, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > Dear Shuddhabrata > > Since my name (or at least one very like mine) is at the center of some of > what has been going on in this space, I *should* be grateful to you for > taking the trouble to get the college concerned to give a clarification on > these two remarkably well discussed *non*-screenings. > > But I find I'm faintly disappointed with your responses: I mean, I was > actually beginning to enjoy reading what new act of villiany My Name might > be up to next, or where the hidden skeins would lead the intrepid > unravellers, or indeed what new threat might be posed to the Nation next > by > My Name... (But you've already had a sneak preview of that have'nt you, > after the thrilling Cancelled Screenings and Secret Funding chapters, > we've > had a hint of Threatening Phone Calls a few days ago, did we not? Watch > this > space, there will be more to come...) > > I know you would like a return to the Sarai Reader List as a place of > observation, reflection, whimsy, insight and other worthy ideals. But why > would you want to spoil our party? I havent had so much fun since I read > the > odd chapter of the new Harry Potter. And most of your 3000 odd subscribers > seem quite happy with all this too: why mess with a winning formula? > > Best > > Sanjay Kak > > On 8/27/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed > > many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character > > and reputation of a person. > > > > A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher > got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that > > Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening > > at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. > > > > On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the > > faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala > > Nehru College have communicated to me that - > > > > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > > individual or body." > > > > This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > > person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > > screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > > baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait > > until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in > > Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. > > > > I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity > > of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in > > insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and > > attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression > > that we all enjoy on this list. > > > > regards, > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 09:34:51 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:34:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Breathless at Battal Balian-by Aditi Bhaduri(in Hindu) Message-ID: <13df7c120708272104j229a37fdo933bf683ee560bce@mail.gmail.com> The road winds up from Jammu, broad and clean, flanked by shady trees on either side. The air is still and through the windows of the car all looks well in God's world. Till the car suddenly takes a turn, crashing as it would seem into the gree n foliage. A road hidden from the eyes of the world takes us to the Batal Balian Kashmiri migrant camp. Located near Udhampur, 95 km from Jammu, this place is home for some 2,000 people of India's largest displaced community — the Kashmiri Pandits. Why they left "Migrant" conjures up images of people moving wilfully, if unhappily, from their native places to others in search of greener pastures. But when you talk to 70-year-old Mayawati, you hear that the migration was not so much for greener pastures as it was for safer havens. In her broken Hindi — she still struggles with the language, turning to her son for help every now and then in Kashmiri — she recounts the rumours, the threats, the sudden spurt of killings of Kashmiri Pandits like her, the messages over the mosque, and finally the sudden, heavy hearted decision to leave. Yet, leave she did, even though it was not easy at the age of 53 — that was how old she was when she came here in 1990. Why, they all knew they would soon go back, as soon as the trouble was over. And that was how Mayawati found herself with her family — husband, two sons and a daughter-in-law — here in Battal Balian "migrant camp". Hope fades And though it was all painful and uncomfortable, they put up with it all. There were other families too. It was temporary, they comforted each other. Soon, the tents concretised into hutments. And even as the country celebrates its 60th year of independence, Mayawati, her family and neighbours mark their 17th year in exile here. Her hutment, where the entire family is squeezed in, is lined with Hindu deities. On the walls hang two old, faded posters of Pahalgam and Sonmarg. She proudly points to her five-year-old granddaughter, lying asleep beside her on the floor. Her husband, deaf and suffering from asthma, sits silently in a corner. Here, in the isolation of Batal Balian, Mayawati is one of the more fortunate ones. She has her family around her. Brijnath, 70, fled here with his wife and son from his native Bijbihara, where he was engaged in agriculture. The atmosphere of fear that had built up in their village in Kashmir before their departure, together with the trauma of flight, uncertainty and camp life caused high levels of stress and diabetes in his wife. Two years after their arrival here, she died of cardiac arrest. Brijnath himself suffers from ulcers in the stomach and acute asthma. Dr. K.L. Chowdhury, Director of the Shriya Bhatt Hospital and Research Centre, Jammu, recounted that more than a thousand persons died of heat stroke alone in the very first year of exodus. The Centre is actively involved in health work with the displaced community. A familiar pattern Displacement follows a familiar pattern. It is always the weaker, the more vulnerable who are displaced. Most of the inmates here came from rural areas in Kashmir, engaged in agriculture or in petty business. Once displaced, the displaced invariably suffer other oppressions. As the population here battled unfamiliar surroundings and hostile climatic conditions, they faced problems of unemployment and livelihood. Government rations and doles are humiliating, even insufficient, but accepted silently, with heads down. Gradually realisation dawned — this was not a temporary phase, this was becoming home. Cut off, isolated—it takes almost an hour to get to Udhampur and more than two to Jammu — they have nowhere to turn to for even emergency needs. Veena Kaul recalls when she had a premature delivery and no transport was available at the camp to take her to the hospital in Jammu the night she suddenly had an emergency. There are not even any markets close by, the residents are brought food and fruits and medicines every week by community volunteers from Jammu. Soon, other scripts crept in to the narrative. In 2000, the entire area around the camp was declared an industrial zone. Even though the Government had housed a camp here of more than 2,000 people, this was not deemed a matter of concern. Neither was there any thought of first moving the camp and then allowing the industries to come up. And so, before anyone could comprehend what was happening, nine industrial units producing cements, bricks and plastics, sprang up around the camp, with their fumes and effluent causing a stranglehold on the environment, polluting it to dangerous levels. Some of the dwelling quarters are a mere 33 feet away from the factories. With them, a deluge of respiratory, olfactory and skin diseases engulfed the camp. Deceptive peace The tranquillity and serene beauty of the green-shrouded hills are yet another deception that greet you here. But soon a steady drone takes over. Life begins early in this camp, people like to drink and store clean water. As Gugadevi, 45, shows me, once the factories start churning, a white haze envelopes the camp and thick sediments form on the water. Yet, there is acute shortage of electricity here and some of the hutments that have holes which pass for windows have to keep them open for the little ventilation it offers — even if it means breathing in the dust. What else can one do when the temperature is above forty degrees Centigrade? And that is how 30 per cent of the inmates here, like Brijnath, now find themselves patients of asthma and bronchitis. Those above 60 years, like Mohan Lal Kaul or Roopavati need nebulizers and oxygen often. But others like Lovely, 14, and Manoj, 10, also suffer from acute asthma. Gugadevi's younger son Kush has continuous mucous running from his nose, thanks to the industrial zone. Yet, this is not the end of Battal Balian's woe. In a medical camp conducted by the Shriya Bhat Centre earlier this year, Dr. Khosa, a leading dermatologist of Jammu, found that almost 50 per cent of the inmates were afflicted with some kind of skin ailment caused by environmental injury to skin. Most of the afflicted, like Dazzy Bhat and Manesh Dhar, whose condition is acute, trace it as a direct fall-out of the industries that encircle the camp. Further medical tests revealed that 18 per cent of the inmates are suffering from deafness and 15 per cent from eye problems — all due to environmental pollution of noise, dust fumes and toxic waste from the same source. While people here seemed to be paying the price for their proximity to the camp, Nanaji, a senior camp inmate and volunteer, laments that not a single inmate had benefited by getting a job at any of these factories. While 150 of the 300 employable men are without jobs, the State has yet to announce an employment package! Memories of home For these men and women, images of Kashmir are fading in the distance, dreams of returning home to verdant valleys and clear gurgling streams are becoming just that — dreams. Life here is now a struggle for basic survival. The people of Battal Balian have approached all the powers that be — from the Pollution Control Board and Deputy Commissioner of Udhampur to Farouq Abdullah, Mufti Mohamed Syed and Chief Minister Azad. A request had also been sent to the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. All they have received are promises that the camp would soon be shifted to safer environs — promises that are yet to materialise. When contacted by this writer, the Relief Commissioner (Migrant), Vinod Kaul, responded that quarters were being completed near Jammu and the Battal Balian camp would be shifted there by the end of this year. But the breathless in Battal Balian are not buying that — not yet. -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From muttoo.sanjay at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 11:25:42 2007 From: muttoo.sanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Muttoo) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:25:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Was a screening of `And the World Remained Silent' at Kamla Nehru College really cancelled? Message-ID: The representation of the sequence of events leading up to the decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film `Jashn-e-Azadi' at Kamla Nehru College on the 24th of August 2007 has created an unseemly controversy. I refer to a posting on the Sarai Reader list by Rashneek Kher which states that the organization, Roots in Kashmir (RIK) had approached Kamla Nehru College to screen a film `And the World Remained Silent' and had indeed been "given permission to screen the movie on the 24th of August at 2.30 pm." He goes on to add that it was at the behest of Sanjay Kak that their screening was cancelled and a screening of `Jashn-e-Azadi' was scheduled in its place. As visiting faculty in the Dept of Journalism in Kamla Nehru College and the person who suggested that we organize a screening of Jashn-e-Azadi, the sequence of events, as I know them, leading upto the decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film are at complete variance with what Rashneek Kher has suggested in his posting. The sequence of events merits a renarration. As part of our effort to use audio- visual material in the classroom to initiate a discussion and debate around issues and the way they are represented and encourage a process of critical thought, I had suggested to the Teacher-in-Charge of the Wideangle film society of the college that we schedule a screening of Jashn-e-Azadi. Accordingly, Sanjay Kak was invited to screen his film in the college. I was quite disturbed when I read the `sequence of events' detailed in Rashneek Khers posting, suggesting that a prior commitment had been made by the college to screen their film on the 24th of August 2007 which the college reneged on. I spoke with the teacher-in-charge to confirm if that indeed was the case. I was told quite categorically that , while the college had received a request for the screening of `And the World Remained Silent', it had in no way committed to a particular date for the screening and so the question of cancelling a scheduled screening of `And the World Remained Silent' to accomodate Sanjay Kak's film just didnt arise! Sanjay Muttoo From subasrik at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 11:54:03 2007 From: subasrik at yahoo.com (Subasri Krishnan) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] MIA Message-ID: <151773.38657.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> For all you Bappi da fans, here's Maya Arulprakasam's take on 'Jimmy Jimmy'. Check out this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_Dk_F98cU 'You can only understand your life backwards. But you have to live it forwards' --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 12:00:36 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:00:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Was a screening of `And the World Remained Silent' at Kamla Nehru College really cancelled? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13df7c120708272330r45ee7634vbf7978d01587768b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sanjay Muttoo, I was really wondering why no word from you so far. Thanks for the "new perspective". You do agree that we had requested for a screening of "And the World Remained Silent".Thanks Now if the college hadnt agreed for a date and time,why would we put it on our blog in the first place(that too a week before) begs an answer. Sanjay(Kak) generally mentions in his blog about his future screenings.Whywasnt it done for KNC screening unless it was finalised at the 11th hour also begs an answer. And of all the colleges in Delhi/India why on the same day/same slot Jashn-e-Azadi got screened also begs an answer. Isnt it too much of a coincidence! Being over zealous sometimes spoils the party.Had Run Lola Run been screened at that time,I am sure so many questions wouldnt beg for answers. Best Regards Rashneek Kher On 8/28/07, Sanjay Muttoo wrote: > > The representation of the sequence of events leading up to the > decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film `Jashn-e-Azadi' at Kamla Nehru > College on the 24th of August 2007 has created an unseemly > controversy. I refer to a posting on the Sarai Reader list by Rashneek > Kher which states that the organization, Roots in Kashmir (RIK) had > approached Kamla Nehru College to screen a film `And the World > Remained Silent' and had indeed been "given permission to screen the > movie on the 24th of August at 2.30 pm." He goes on to add that it was > at the behest of Sanjay Kak that their screening was cancelled and a > screening of `Jashn-e-Azadi' was scheduled in its place. > > As visiting faculty in the Dept of Journalism in Kamla Nehru College > and the person who suggested that we organize a screening of > Jashn-e-Azadi, the sequence of events, as I know them, leading upto > the decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film are at complete variance with > what Rashneek Kher has suggested in his posting. The sequence of > events merits a renarration. > > As part of our effort to use audio- visual material in the classroom > to initiate a discussion and debate around issues and the way they are > represented and encourage a process of critical thought, I had > suggested to the Teacher-in-Charge of the Wideangle film society of > the college that we schedule a screening of Jashn-e-Azadi. > Accordingly, Sanjay Kak was invited to screen his film in the college. > > I was quite disturbed when I read the `sequence of events' detailed > in Rashneek Khers posting, suggesting that a prior commitment had been > made by the college to screen their film on the 24th of August 2007 > which the college reneged on. I spoke with the teacher-in-charge to > confirm if that indeed was the case. I was told quite categorically > that , while the college had received a request for the screening of > `And the World Remained Silent', it had in no way committed to a > particular date for the screening and so the question of cancelling a > scheduled screening of `And the World Remained Silent' to accomodate > Sanjay Kak's film just didnt arise! > > Sanjay Muttoo > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From ranjani.jnu at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 12:32:26 2007 From: ranjani.jnu at gmail.com (Ranjani Mazumdar) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:32:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! Message-ID: Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we find it dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks and create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right minds would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his views? Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done that or they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they are a bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce they are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and unimaginative ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in some situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good idea. Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many people into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! Cheers, Ranjani From kalakamra at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:05:16 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:05:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. Message-ID: <33eee40c0708280035h10094dcck105b6e725fc30628@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world remained silent) and Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group of film enthusiasts recently, on our 60th year of independence. The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is here: http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their anxieties, and to stop scoring empty points by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will make these films broadly available. best, -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:06:52 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:06:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Was a screening of `And the World Remained Message-ID: Dear Rashneek, I've not been writing much about this topic as I know what the truth is; what we have been facing and what we may face in future. The truth is quite visible on the blog http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ . Some people here think that if repeatedly the truth is targeted it will have no meaning and will be lost somewhere. But; Truth never changes. This "well-connected" director has scuttled the voice of a particular section of people is known and proved. Don't get demoralised when people target you, abuse you or shamelessly ignore you; its quite the frustartion of the person speaking and not the brains. We don't need to bother about such puppets who are being directed by their masters. But, still there are many unanswered questions which they have to reply to. But, what still keeps me amazed is the timing of the Launch of Sanjay Kak's Jashn-e-azadi and Yasin Malik's Safar-e-azadi. Both are moving at the same time spreading lies and brainwashing people. Quite a propaganda. One can't ignoe this as just a coincidence. There are obviously someone's brains working behind it. The Kashmir Blog - www.thekashmir.wordpress.com puts more strength to my doubts on these so called campaigns. I never knew; the kashmiri sentence "Yih Kyoho Korvu?" means "What happened?". Maybe, it was just to mislead someone. So tragic and sad for the country. Aditya Raj Kaul > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:00:36 +0530 > From: "rashneek kher" > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Was a screening of `And the World Remained > Silent' at Kamla Nehru College really cancelled? > To: "Sanjay Muttoo" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, shuddha at sarai.net > Message-ID: > <13df7c120708272330r45ee7634vbf7978d01587768b at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Dear Sanjay Muttoo, > > I was really wondering why no word from you so far. > Thanks for the "new perspective". > You do agree that we had requested for a screening of "And the World > Remained Silent".Thanks > Now if the college hadnt agreed for a date and time,why would we put it on > our blog in the first place(that too a week before) begs an answer. > Sanjay(Kak) generally mentions in his blog about his future > screenings.Whywasnt it done for KNC screening unless it was finalised > at the 11th hour > also begs an answer. > And of all the colleges in Delhi/India why on the same day/same slot > Jashn-e-Azadi got screened also begs an answer. > Isnt it too much of a coincidence! > > Being over zealous sometimes spoils the party.Had Run Lola Run been > screened > at that time,I am sure so many questions wouldnt beg for answers. > > Best Regards > > Rashneek Kher > > > On 8/28/07, Sanjay Muttoo wrote: > > > > The representation of the sequence of events leading up to the > > decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film `Jashn-e-Azadi' at Kamla Nehru > > College on the 24th of August 2007 has created an unseemly > > controversy. I refer to a posting on the Sarai Reader list by Rashneek > > Kher which states that the organization, Roots in Kashmir (RIK) had > > approached Kamla Nehru College to screen a film `And the World > > Remained Silent' and had indeed been "given permission to screen the > > movie on the 24th of August at 2.30 pm." He goes on to add that it was > > at the behest of Sanjay Kak that their screening was cancelled and a > > screening of `Jashn-e-Azadi' was scheduled in its place. > > > > As visiting faculty in the Dept of Journalism in Kamla Nehru College > > and the person who suggested that we organize a screening of > > Jashn-e-Azadi, the sequence of events, as I know them, leading upto > > the decision to screen Sanjay Kak's film are at complete variance with > > what Rashneek Kher has suggested in his posting. The sequence of > > events merits a renarration. > > > > As part of our effort to use audio- visual material in the classroom > > to initiate a discussion and debate around issues and the way they are > > represented and encourage a process of critical thought, I had > > suggested to the Teacher-in-Charge of the Wideangle film society of > > the college that we schedule a screening of Jashn-e-Azadi. > > Accordingly, Sanjay Kak was invited to screen his film in the college. > > > > I was quite disturbed when I read the `sequence of events' detailed > > in Rashneek Khers posting, suggesting that a prior commitment had been > > made by the college to screen their film on the 24th of August 2007 > > which the college reneged on. I spoke with the teacher-in-charge to > > confirm if that indeed was the case. I was told quite categorically > > that , while the college had received a request for the screening of > > `And the World Remained Silent', it had in no way committed to a > > particular date for the screening and so the question of cancelling a > > scheduled screening of `And the World Remained Silent' to accomodate > > Sanjay Kak's film just didnt arise! > > > > Sanjay Muttoo > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------ > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com > Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:14:16 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:14:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Battle For Kashmir" - Their Strategies and Their Motives Message-ID: The "Battle For Kashmir " has entered into a different segment . A massive effort is being put to influence the so called "liberal" and the "leftist" class of India and work on to influence the new generation of so called " liberals" to accept that Kashmir needs to be free from India. Having closely followed the different strategies , after failing miserably with the Guns and also now as the Kashmir issue is connected with Global Terrorism , the idea of spreading the message of "Azaadi" [ read poison ] to rest of country has started in a very well planned way. Visit the link for more : http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/their-strategies-and-their-motives/ Thanks -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:16:43 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:16:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Lie Which Cheated the Courts ! Message-ID: On 13th Dec 2001 , Indian Parliament was attacked. One of the accused was Mr Geelani who was first sentenced to death but later set free. It had been long that I wanted to know the transcripts of Geelanis telephonic conversation and wanted to know the reality . The reason being that people who were pleading for Geelani have been known to be supporters of separatism in Kashmir and are well known JKLF supporters. One person who gave a testimony in court and translated the telephonic conversation is Sanjay Kak, a film director who never made it big. More more read : http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/a-lie-which-cheated-the-courts/ Thanks -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:41:35 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:41:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them as bores,comic,fascists,nazis,propogandists.At least something will stick. In all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as the neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad bombers...start working on new movie on them Ranjani... Live on..live on Rashneek On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar wrote: > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we find it > dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it > abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks and > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right minds > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his > views? > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done that > or > they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they are a > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce they > are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and > unimaginative > ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in some > situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good idea. > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many people > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > Cheers, > Ranjani > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:42:57 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:42:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280035h10094dcck105b6e725fc30628@mail.gmail.com> References: <33eee40c0708280035h10094dcck105b6e725fc30628@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708280112ofdc8e11sd95261277b1e0244@mail.gmail.com> Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. Regards Rashneek On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > Dear all, > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world > remained silent) and > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group of > film enthusiasts recently, > on our 60th year of independence. > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is here: > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > anxieties, > and to stop scoring empty points > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > make > these films broadly available. > > best, > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 13:56:05 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:56:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 16 years of terror snuffed out 40,000 lives in J&K In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 16 years of terror snuffed out 40,000 lives in J&K *28 Aug, 2007, 0132 hrs IST,Sanjay K Singh, TNN* *NEW DELHI:* The Centre has admitted that cross-border terrorism and the Pakistan-sponsored proxy war had claimed the lives of over 40,000 people in the past 16 years in Jammu and Kashmir. In an affidavit filed before the Supreme Court in response to a PIL seeking directions to the Centre to declare the Kashmiri migrants as internally displaced persons, in keeping with the guidelines laid down by the United High Commissioner for Human Rights, the Manmohan Singh government said between 1990-2006, more than 40,000 persons, including both civilians and Army personnel, had been killed. "The whole phenomenon of what has happened in J&K since 1989 is an example of a proxy war and cross-border terrorism,'' the Centre said. The government maintained that it had strenuously and consistently voiced its stand at various international fora about Pakistan's involvement in sponsoring large-scale secessionist and terrorist violence in the state, which was in violation of all norms of international conduct. "The matter is also being pursued by the government at various levels, including diplomatic and political channels," the Centre observed. Wary of its fallout on the state's social fabric, the Centre told the court it had taken measures to ensure that communal harmony in the state and the rest of the country was maintained. The government also said that due to the menace of terrorism, the minorities had been compelled to migrate outside the state, and argued in the same breath that this phenomenon was not limited only to J&K. "In the wake of terrorist and secessionist violence, over 8,000 families had migrated from Punjab to Delhi in much the same circumstances as in the case of Kashmiri pandits," the Centre claimed, hoping that in the days to come these Kashmiri migrants would return to the valley. Terrorism knows no religion, the Centre asserted in the affidavit. "Both the majority population of the state of J&K, the Muslims and the minority population, including the Hindus and the Sikhs, were victims of terrorist violence in the state. The terrorists, with the main objective of creating a communal divide, targeted the minority population by indulging in the mass killings of the community members so as to provoke people to react along communal lines all over the country and also to create a scare," the affidavit pointed out. It informed the apex court that Parliament had enacted the Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act, 1990 which had been in operation in the state since July 5, 1990. The Centre, with the co-operation of state government, had also taken measures to protect the life and property of different communities within the state. These includes setting up of police/CRPF pickets in villages/clusters inhabited by different communities in the Kashmir Valley and providing adequate weaponry and communication facilities at these pickets with the nearest security force units entrusted with the task of area sanitization, the affidavit maintained. *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com * From sgadihok at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 14:20:58 2007 From: sgadihok at gmail.com (Sabeena Gadihoke) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:20:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> Hey Rashneek, Do you spend all your time on the net? Get a life man... And besides, you are a great one to talk about labelling people! Sabeena On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them as > bores,comic,fascists,nazis,propogandists.At least something will stick. > > In all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as the > neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad bombers...start > working on new movie on them Ranjani... > Live on..live on > > Rashneek > > > > On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar wrote: > > > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > > > If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we find it > > dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it > > abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks and > > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right minds > > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his > > views? > > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done > that > > or > > they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they are > a > > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce > they > > are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and > > unimaginative > > ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in some > > situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good idea. > > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many > people > > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > > > Cheers, > > Ranjani > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 14:32:35 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:32:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! In-Reply-To: <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708280202u30ccb458p85919dc0215d6cf6@mail.gmail.com> Sabeena, It is none of your business as to whether i spend all time on net or where i please.Let us not get personal.I am sure I have a far better than life than you.Get a life..you go get one..for yourself..as if you are some Sufi saint doling away un-solicited advices. If I am not the great one,you arent either about anything,and least of all what I do with myself. Next time you better not get personal. Rashneek On 8/28/07, Sabeena Gadihoke wrote: > > Hey Rashneek, > Do you spend all your time on the net? Get a life man... > And besides, you are a great one to talk about labelling people! > Sabeena > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them as > > bores,comic,fascists,nazis,propogandists.At least something will stick. > > > > In all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as the > > neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad > > bombers...start > > working on new movie on them Ranjani... > > Live on..live on > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > > > > > If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we find > > it > > > dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it > > > abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks and > > > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right > > minds > > > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his > > > views? > > > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done > > that > > > or > > > they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they > > are a > > > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce > > they > > > are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and > > > unimaginative > > > ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in > > some > > > situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good idea. > > > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many > > people > > > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ranjani > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 14:34:52 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:34:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! In-Reply-To: <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Sabeena, I don't think sitting on the net for long is a crime or goes against any freedom of expression. Maybe, Rashneek's job demands him to do that. How are you bothered about it ? Atleast, Rashneek writes sense and not filmsy stories and rhetoric stuff unlike some other's here. Read his blog in detail http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com/ . That might help you understand him better. That is, if you have free time to access net from your busy schedule. ;) Cheers ! On 8/28/07, Sabeena Gadihoke wrote: > > Hey Rashneek, > Do you spend all your time on the net? Get a life man... > And besides, you are a great one to talk about labelling people! > Sabeena > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them as > > bores,comic,fascists,nazis,propogandists.At least something will stick. > > > > In all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as the > > neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad > bombers...start > > working on new movie on them Ranjani... > > Live on..live on > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > > > > > If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we find > it > > > dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it > > > abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks and > > > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right > minds > > > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his > > > views? > > > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done > > that > > > or > > > they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they > are > > a > > > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce > > they > > > are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and > > > unimaginative > > > ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in > some > > > situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good idea. > > > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many > > people > > > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ranjani > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 14:39:03 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:39:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! In-Reply-To: References: <13df7c120708280111x3e54a9b9ge247596d3c3118bc@mail.gmail.com> <27e1e8a30708280150j54339614l6e3860a74b3326cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708280209y5a6bbf84odd7700c8a29da8a2@mail.gmail.com> I have a blacberry phone which helps in keep in touch.Sabeena..now curse Airtel guys..file a suit against Sunil Bharti Mittal...OK get a life..your own On 8/28/07, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > > Hey Sabeena, > > I don't think sitting on the net for long is a crime or goes against any > freedom of expression. Maybe, Rashneek's job demands him to do that. How are > you bothered about it ? > > Atleast, Rashneek writes sense and not filmsy stories and r hetoric stuff > unlike some other's here. > > Read his blog in detail http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com/ . That > might help you understand him better. That is, if you have free time to > access net from your busy schedule. ;) > > Cheers ! > > > On 8/28/07, Sabeena Gadihoke wrote: > > > > Hey Rashneek, > > Do you spend all your time on the net? Get a life man... > > And besides, you are a great one to talk about labelling people! > > Sabeena > > > > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them as > > > bores,comic,fascists,nazis, propogandists.At least something will > > stick. > > > > > > In all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as the > > > neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad > > bombers...start > > > working on new movie on them Ranjani... > > > Live on..live on > > > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > > > > > > > If most of us have been keeping quiet on the list its because we > > find it > > > > dfficult to take the attacks on the two of you seriously. Isn't it > > > > abundantly clear that some people are out to make personal attacks > > and > > > > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in their right > > minds > > > > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they disagree with his > > > > views? > > > > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they have actually done > > > > > that > > > > or > > > > they're just flexing their manly muscles but whatever the case, they > > are > > > a > > > > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and what evidence you produce > > > they > > > > are going to continue to attack you in rather predictable and > > > > unimaginative > > > > ways so please ignore them. Fearless listening is important but in > > some > > > > situations, as in this one, refusing to listen is a bloody good > > idea. > > > > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If it has riled so many > > > people > > > > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ranjani > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rashneek Kher > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com > Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 14:53:37 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] How someone "well connected" got RIK screening Cancelled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <461399.12835.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Amitabh Your comment "..not disgrace yourself so openly" deserves to be ignored. Ignored it is. I do not have anything against the "individual" Aman Sethi. First I knew about him and all that I know about him is from his introducing himself as a "journalist" in hisr posting a few days back. My responses to Aman and about him are purely on the basis of what he wrote in. If you think I have wrongly represented something he has written or my criticism is unfounded, please do correct me on specifics. Amitabh, how come my words unsuitable for this "public list" and Aman's distortions and pathetic comments are acceptable? Why this hypocrisy? Kshmendra Kaul Amitabh Kumar wrote: Please revert back to the topic of discussion and abstain from attacking someone personally.This is a public list. If you have something against an individual, I think it would be in all our interest that you post a mail to him and not disgrace yourself so openly. On 8/27/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Aman Let me start with a piece of friendly advice. Do not represent yourself as a "journalist". You are a sorry specimen. I will substantiate it. 1. You find yourself incapable of "verifying Rashneek's sequence of events". What a "journalist" you are Aman. One would think that it is NTK information or that you have to pull out a Battle Plan from the Ministry of Defence. 2. You suggest that Rashneek might be "simply lying". You are willing to risk that judgement without having any supportive information or evidence to reach it. Quite a "journalist" you are Aman. 3. You taunt me with """"" Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant "investigative work" seems a trifle premature""""" Aman, I have re-read my posting and do not see myself having congratulated anyone for """brilliant "investigative work". So Aman, for you, a "distortionist" might be a better tag than "journalist" 4. I agree with you Aman, some homework must be done , especially by a presumed "journalist" It is interesting that you admit that the likes of Aman will be "reduced" to "laughing hyenas". "Reduced" perhaps aptly describes your comeuppance. Inadvertent admission? Did you know Aman that the hyenas "laugh" is described as the equivalent of a dog's "bark"? Do you still see yourself evolving journalistically into a "laughing hyena"? The most delightful story about "laughing hyenas" (that you Aman aspire to be) is from African folklore: """"When the Creator returned he was very angry with the hyena for destroying the beautiful steenbok and he took a burning log from the fire and shoved it up the hyena's rear. The hyena howled and he rushed off into the bush in his shame and despair. And the hyena is still so ashamed and sorry for his mistake that he cannot even cry and his tears come out as desperate laughter.""""""" Kshmendra Kaul Aman Sethi wrote: Dear Kshmendra, I have no qualms with Rashneek, Nishant Dudha, or even you, writing what ever you please about what ever you please. However, there is no way of verifying Rashneek's sequence of events - or to be more blunt - to verify if the author of the report is simply lying. Further, to then congratulate the said author for brilliant "investigative work" seems a trifle premature. Further, to use a open medium like this list to cast aspersions on someone's motives - without once more, providing anything other than a series of conjectures- is irresponsible. Thank you suggesting a journalistic method by which to prove rashneek/ nishant's reportage - however, the onus is not on me as a reader to verify the authenticity of a report. The onus on reporter to convince me of the truth of his claim. In this case Rashneek/ nishant have not succeeded in doing so. At present, the information put out by Rashneek sounds like a spoilt 10 year old complaining to his school teacher. Which could explain why it is so hard to take him seriously. I would urge you to read, write, and inform as many as you can, especially since you seem to be such an articulate and intelligent person. However, as a professional "word howler" hyena" i would suggest that you do a spot of homework before you sit down at your computer. Otherwise we "scavenging hyenas" might be reduced to laughing hyenas. Best, as always, Aman On 8/26/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Aman > > For a "journalist" you are quite vague. Is that by design or is it a > compulsion arising out of your not having anything concrete to say? > > What is the "he said, she said" in Rashneek's 'report' (Nishant Dudha's > rather)? > > Rashneek seems to have narrated a sequence of events and stated questions > arising from them. What is it that you find objectionable? > > Rashneek is not a journalist (are you Rashneek?). He has spoken with passion > about his pain. Yet, he has managed to present rationally his experience. > "Rashneek's report" did not even state his conclusion. He put it up as a > question to be answered "Is Indian intelligentsia Liberal or Hypocrite?". > > You Aman, since you have thrust your "journalist" tag in our faces should > have 'investigated' and presented your reporting of 'what exactly happened'. > If you did that and if you carried no preconcieved notions and biases, you > Aman would have ended up with a lot of "he saids" and "she saids". That > would be journalism. > > Aman your derision " It is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken > seriously" is nothing but the word-howl of a scavenging hyena. > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > AFTERTHOUGHT: Many "Journalists" are extremely uncomfortable with the > ability of individuals to express themselves and reach readerships without > having to go through the "As reported by XXX" journalistic route. It > threatens the arrogance of their presumed role of being the only ones who > should report/inform. > > > > > Aman Sethi wrote: > As as journalist, i have always had a, perhaps misplaced, suspicion of > blogmedia. While blogmedia and list-servs have done some fantastic > work, what is saddening is how texts based on a series of loosely > worded conjectures pass off as investigative work. Of course an even > mildly critical viewing of our news channels and news media will > reveal the same conjectures passed off as news - usually when it > concerns matters of national security, separatism, and of course, > jihad. So perhaps i should retract my previous statement. > > Rashneek's report seems to consist of little beyond a "he said, she > said." In fact, he admits to as much in his "pre-emptive" post. It > is indeed tragic that he expects to be taken seriously. > > It would be interesting to view Pawan Durani's list of financiers. It > would be even more interesting to know where he gets his lists from. > > Best > A. > > On 8/25/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Thank you Fatima ...though it was someting "in between " . > > > > Jebeesh , what more can you expect from amateurs who unlike Sanjay Kak , > do > > not have backing of people like Yasin Maliks ....( I hope I am > > safe)......and financers whose name i am going to reveal in few days. > > > > Its Good to be liberal...but it is dangerous to ignore the facts > > > > Pawan Durani > > www.thekashmir.wordpress.com > > > > > > On 8/25/07, S.Fatima wrote: > > > > > > Sorry to butt into this, but maybe calling the police > > > is a more innocent reaction than getting someone's > > > screening cancelled and being able to get one's own > > > film at the exact same time/date/space (IF this claim > > > is true, that is). > > > The rage seems to be on both sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > > > > > > > On 25-Aug-07, at 8:14 AM, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > filed a complaint and since Sanjay Kak is breaking > > > > the law of the > > > > > land by > > > > > screening a movie which does not have necessary > > > > censor certificate, > > > > > the > > > > > Police did the rest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did this move satisfy the rage in you? > > > > > > > > Can testimonies of suffering justify these kinds of > > > > invitation to > > > > policing of our intellectual lives? > > > > > > > > Isn't taking recourse to punitive action an ally of > > > > our deep fear to > > > > live life with disagreements? > > > > > > > > If police is brought in to intervene, will there be > > > > people left to > > > > argue with and convince? > > > > > > > > best > > > > jeebesh > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > > > > subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > ________________________________ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- www.amitabhkumar.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From kalakamra at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 16:33:42 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <13df7c120708280112ofdc8e11sd95261277b1e0244@mail.gmail.com> References: <33eee40c0708280035h10094dcck105b6e725fc30628@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708280112ofdc8e11sd95261277b1e0244@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <33eee40c0708280403o57faed1ep9b09f763d96f1c08@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rashneek, If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going on about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) imagine vile and twisted role playing games. Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are engaging in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the same. What is it you fear? On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world > > remained silent) and > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group > > of > > film enthusiasts recently, > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > here: > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > anxieties, > > and to stop scoring empty points > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > > make > > these films broadly available. > > > > best, > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From hpp at vsnl.com Tue Aug 28 16:56:50 2007 From: hpp at vsnl.com (hpp at vsnl.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:26:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] CPI(M) culture Message-ID: Dear Friends, In case anyone was unaware, here is a news report (from today's Telegraph) that illustrates well the prevailing CPI(M) culture of West Bengal! Inquilab Zindabad! V Ramaswamy Calcutta cuckooscall.blogspot.com ..................... Ex-MLA urinates on lady & minister OUR CORRESPONDENT Malda, Aug. 27: A former CPM legislator grabbed a la- dy army officer on Darjeeling Mail last night and apparently urinated on her. A couple of hours before, a sloshed Prakash Minj allegedly took a leak on civil defence minister Srikumar Mukherjee, who was also in the AC II-tier coach. The minister called police, but did not file a complaint. Major Minta P. Devgan did. The four-time MLA from Phansidewa was pulled out of the train at Malda station. Amal Sinha, a contractor accompanying him, was also arrested. But they were released on bail later. Major Devgan and her husband, Colonel Pankaj Devgan, who were travelling together, are both posted in Calcutta. In the complaint they filed with Government Railway Police in Malda, Minj was accused of “outraging her modesty”. Mukherjee saw Minj grappling with the woman. His security guard said he saw him have a pee while holding her. “It was nearly 11pm when I found a drunk man sitting on my berth. He identified himself as a CPM MLA,” Mukherjee said. The guard, Mohammad Sofi, who was called to escort Minj back to his berth, said he urinated in the minister’s coupe. A while later, Mukherjee heard a woman shouting for help. He saw the former MLA with his arms around a woman in blue jeans and white T-shirt. “I could see her struggling and rushed to pull him away,” said the CPI leader. Col Devgan jumped from his berth to the rescue of his wife. Although the entire compartment was awake in minutes, it took half an hour to subdue Minj. By that time, the train had pulled into Malda station and the minister asked his guard to call the police. Sofi said Minj was hurling abuses at the minister. “The man said the minister was from a minor constituent of the Left Front while he belonged to the ruling party,” Sofi said. Swapan Dasgupta, the inspector in charge of the Government Railway Police at Malda, confirmed that Minj was drunk. In the railway police lock-up this morning, Minj and Sinha were seen polishing off a plate of rice and curry. The party dropped Minj as an MLA candidate last year. He declined comment. Sinha said: “I consumed alcohol and went to sleep. I don’t remember anything untoward happening on the train.” From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 17:04:41 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:04:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280403p51d5489as9c70360607395809@mail.gmail.com> References: <33eee40c0708280035h10094dcck105b6e725fc30628@mail.gmail.com> <13df7c120708280112ofdc8e11sd95261277b1e0244@mail.gmail.com> <33eee40c0708280403p51d5489as9c70360607395809@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708280434x1e7c7d58i8a184346354dcc5e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shaina, It seems you havent read our posts/comments well.Infact none of us at RIK is happy about what we had to resort to.While we do not agree with the movie made by Sanjay,at no point in time have we ever tried to block it.If we had to block his screenings it would have be difficult to explain how he screened in so many cities and so many venues.We never wanted to stop/cancel his screenings.It was he who blocked our screening and in over confidence got his documentary in..as if to rub some insult to our injury. Now why dont you ask Kak as to why he blocked our screening in KNC and got his own movie in on the same spot.Irrespective of what the Film Club or anyone says the coincidence of his screening on same day/same place/same slot has a tale to tell.Also he not even mentioning the screening on his blog,while we mentioning of our screening at KNC also points out something. I want to make it categorically clear that while we believe that his movie is hugely biased, full of half truths and in part glorifies terrorists like Yasin Malik,yet we want it to be screened as much as we want ours to be screened without someone manipulating the cancellation. Freedom of speech is as much a right as a responsibility.As they say we need two hands to clap. I do hope you see things in correct perspective,as for the film maker we have nothing in person against him.He came to one of our screenings and you can ask him,how I personally tried to make him comfortable.Mahman nawazi is a way of life with us ,Kashmiris. I also hope you resort to better choice of semantics and not make too many assumptions,like we wont try this and that.It is better that you first find out what has been tried between the film maker and me. Also for a perspective do try and read my review in Greater Kashmir.the link is here *http://greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=8_8_2007&ItemID=7&cat=12* God bless Rashneek On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > Dear Rashneek, > > If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to > getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going on > about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to > making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) imagine > vile and twisted role playing games. > > Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched > the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and > self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits > portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. > > 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. > They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are engaging > in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. > > Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the > same. What is it you fear? > > shaina > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > > > Regards > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a < kalakamra at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the > > > world > > > remained silent) and > > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a > > > group of > > > film enthusiasts recently, > > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > > here: > > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > > anxieties, > > > and to stop scoring empty points > > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces > > > will make > > > these films broadly available. > > > > > > best, > > > -- > > > shaina > > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 17:26:49 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:26:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rasul Mir-The poet of Bubbling Love,by Dr.R L Bhat Message-ID: <13df7c120708280456i642b5c59sa9766c5042c5d859@mail.gmail.com> * * Tha-rah tha-rah chham ma-rah sha-yad shar meh ji-gu-rook drav-nai Khosh yi-von nunda-bon, ve-si-yae * Myon dil-bar aav nai ** I am all ashake, I may die/my heart's wish has seen no fulfillment/that lovely, pleasing, my heart throb/he hasn't come, ah Dear!* Rasul Mir, that skilled decanter of love, has a raging controversy shrouding his age. The local traditions recorded in 1940's of by Ab Ahad Azad, spoke of a death in his prime. Folk history has it that, Mahmood Gani predicted his youthful death (Amis Chhi jan-h-margi handi koder). His poetry, its fervent youthfulness, its vibrant tenor, its tone of hearty yearning, its pristine emotions, all point to a poet, untouched by the cares of decaying age. Rasul Mir was said to have been alive in 1855 AD when Mahmood Gani passed away and died a few years before-Maqbool Shah Kralawari (d.1874). Accordingly his demise was reckoned between 1867-1870). Rasul Mir was thus said to have lived between 1820s and 1870s. Mr. Teng in his Kuliyati Rasul Mir, refers to a document, in revenue records at Anantnag, which bears the signature of Rasul Mir, as Nambardar and is dated 5th of April 1889. On this basis, Rasool may have lived into the last decade of 19th century.That is as close to factual certainity as researches have gotten to. For the rest, there is his poetic legacy, and, ah again oral traditions. Oral traditions say, Rasul Mir was tall, handsome fair complexioned person, and sported moustaches that tapered far into the face. He was graceful, fashionable fellow, with a youthful heart that throbbed with love, love, and lots of love.* Yi chho Rasul Mir Shahabad Doo-rey Tami chho trov-mut lo-la du-kaan Yi-vu aash-qow che-vu tor-re tor-rey Mai chho moor-rey la-la-vun naar.** ** This is Rasul Mir, at Shahabad, Doru. He has opened a love-kiosk. Come ye lovers, drink free cup. Love's fire burns me deep * Love, is the waft and whoop, the craft and creed of Rasul Mir(He lived love, sang love, and lives for his love-ful passion). Love, the first strings of human heart that present the whole universe as an undulating poem. Love is the creed, beloved is the god and lyrics rush forth in bubbling streams to worship the deity. Singing, sighing and singing again they cascade over the expanses of life, in undating it in its fervor.* Ze-h posha tu-l-i maeni aashq-a mas-jid husn imam ta-th Tsa-ae bae-ng-i shu-baan mokh-ta-e da-ae Ch-e-i yous-faen-i chae-lee** ** My Loves' mosque, is an edifice of just two petals, Love is the preist there, Ye pearly one art the caller there, Ye, who hath the Yousef's grace. Mir's beloved is grace personi fied Zeh posha tu-l (two petals, mere) the being of his, object of love, is characteristic of Rasul Mir's' dainty love. * Love, flowers, passion and fragrance, the eternal inciters of life and beauty, are a recurring motiff in his poetry.* Posha mal chham posh-a tu-l dda-ae lo-lo Rinda posh-a-mal gin-da-ney dra-yi lo-lo* * My beloved (Posh-a-mal) is but two and a half petals; lo, the gay love goes out to frolic.** Ga-ts-ta ve-si-yeh an-tan asta lo-lo He-ai mai kaer-i-mus poshan dasta lo-lo * *Go ye my friend, fetch my lover here, A Jasmine, I have woven garlands for him** Veer-nag-h ba nae-rai aa-ga-yey Achwal-ki posh shae-re la-ga-yey Vach-a-manz-a-lis ma-nz rachh-a-th dachh. mooriyey Va-lai kastur-re-yey, paer mai tra-v neer-i-yey ** Veer-nag, I'll go to usher thee,/Thy brow I'll deck in flowers of Acha-bal/Yeh, vine I'll twins thee to my breast/come ye kasturi, don't roam the meadows free* The weaving green of vast meadows, the dancing hues of wild flowers, the crystal springs singing their purity out, the free birds singing ditties to the air: Kashmir is land that is made for love, passion, a life lived through the heart. It is a wonder that this land had to mouth through painful centuries of love-less self-denials, monastic seclusion, dark corners of incisive introspection which is called the path of realization, or sufism. The Kashmiri literature, (as much of it as is available) opens with Lalla. Lalleshwari was a saint, who saw the world as a beast's burden. Lalla lived in the turbulence that was the beginning of Muslim Rule in Kashmir. Nund Reshi followed her, in her footsteps, in a slightly different direction, he was a preacher, who preached the new religion and won converts. His was a Muslim enthusiast living with Buddhist monastic principles, with the zeal of early Buddhist proselytizers, with similar end and results. That was the 14th century, the first Muslim century of Kashmir. Love, was an abhorrence. Faith was all, the beginning, the continuance, the end of life. Except for the interregnum of Buddh-shah, the reigns were harsh 'Jehads', against the populace or rival lords. Life was a persecution, living a hard duty, if not a curse. The language, the idiom, the thought and idea all were being transformed to correspond to alien ideals. It was a turbulence where you held your body in two hands, and heart kept pumping frantically under sweeping waves of adrenaline induced by terror. Poetry if any, was a recluse, hidden behind drab walls. Else, it was employed to trans-create Persian fables into heavy persionised Kashmiri for the benefit of converts to firm them in their new faith. Heart was out, for hearts sing free. Kashmir lay in double bonds. The fanatic zealots were out to stifles any free cries. The despots were prowling to cage gay voices. It took two centuries to breed Habba Khatoon. Habba was swiftly carried to the chak palace. Akbar's taking over released her from there, to sing over the saffron fields of Pompor, yearning for her lover, who could not have been Yousef Shahi Chak. A century after Habba came Mahmood Gani. Gani was prolific, too prolific. He introduced Kashmiri to Persian verse-form Ghazal, in a heavily Persianised tongue. Be times he took whole verses from Persian masters and re-laid them with a Kashmiri interjection here, a connective there, a pronoun at other places. Still, he wrote some memorable prices. And he wrote a lot. From masnavi, to gazals, to dainty Kashmiri vatchun, on to pieces dipped in Sofi lore, Gani, lived to be ninety and filled a thick Kuliyat. The one published by Cultural Academy runs to 560 pages, of closely written script! Gani was a gifted poet, a master versifier, in love with Persian. His bequeath was distilled by Rasul Mir, who loved with heart, lived with heart, and sang from a love-ful heart. To a notority'* Rasul yud-vy gun-cha laban pailth teh-h chhok badnaam Kho-sh ro-z aashaq kar tse Naa farmaan dapan chhi. ** Rasul, even though you are infamous for your love of tulip lips, be happy, for seldom do the lovers complain of thy in-attention* Love was the task to which Rasul applied himself with abandon. Love, and beloved, a total world, with neither time nor space for the mundane.* Mae-nzi nam-nae van-d-sai bo Ha-tt-i Koi rath tor-ri lo-lo Sarva ka-math kam-deev myon Ja-ma chhis ka-for-ri lo-lo Zar vanaan ehho-ee Rasul Mir doori shah-baad ddoore lo-lo ** For her hennaed naib I'll give, pot-fuls of blood from under my throat, that tall beloved of mine, is attired in robes of scent Rasul. Mir is crying his heart, away, far in Dooru, oh love** Tanha chon-e dar zulf girf-taar myonui dil Dar halqa yo-hai sil-sil-h don aal-man aa-mai ** My heart is not the love one, caged in that love/This is way, the path through which, not one but two worlds've gone** Chhus koba hus-nuk roae, abroo taq bar taq Dar ra-hi aashq sajda ra-va don bu-mun aa-mai ** That face is the kaaba of beauty, her lashes layered over and over. In the path of love, it is meet to bow to those two brows** Gul ro-ae ra-tah-hath na-la dev dilas tselem daag Rasul-h tse rus khar mae bar farsh-i suman aamai ** Ye tulip faced, thee I'd hold, by neck to heal my pain/sans thee, Rasul the flower bed, is a thorny seat for me** Kama-kus ja-ma-h paerith che-ti-yey Sheeri lae-gith gul-i a-naar Veeri ta-san-zi nae-r-e mati-mati-yey Vanta la-ti-ye, tas mae-ni jar. ** White are the robes, my Kamdev wears. His brow is adorned in flowers red, His path, I'd take in drunken stupor, go, tell my love of my pangs** Nae-li sho-bee ta-sa var-dan, bae-li Khorda sae-li-yey Vae-li kan chie zaeli waen-kan saeli vodd-ni tac-li-yey-lo ** Bride's robes, would suit thee well, Ye, my beloved of short years/Thy braids of hair, thy ear rings/peep from beneath the gossamer cover** Yae-ri laa-gov maeri man-zi zaar boj-tai hen-zi-yey Nae-ri san-zi-yey mae-lh vuchh-ney pher-vai. Tel-baeliyey-lo ** Come let us be friends, ye lovely beauty, listen to my laments, oh Henzi, come to see the mela and, we shall roam through Telbal)* The object of Rasul's love is said to have been a Hindu belle of his village. Tales of their having gone to the same mak-tab, and fallen in love have been woven. His poems of love, will yield a thousand tales of prolicy dalliance and passionate love, with little effort. Probably, such soul-full poetry is not possible without a passionate love. You have only to read Mahmood Gani, to know the bubbling heart in Rasul Mir's lyrics. Henzi-yani, Hindu girl, is an unmistakable refrain in Rasul Mir's Poems.* Raza hen-zi-ya-ni naaz kyah anzni gardan Ya illa-hi chesma bad-a nishi rachh-tan Ga-tsi kam kyah cha-ni baar-ga-hi lo-lo Rinda poshamal gindi-ney dra-yi lo-lo ** How graceful the swans neck of henziyani looks, spare her from evil eyes, my Lord, Thy bounty, that won't lessen, O God, Lo, the love goes on a frolicly outing* Whether the love was reciprocated or not is lost, like the details of Rasul Mir's life, in the depths of past lost to us. It is also not clear whether the mentions would point to a specific person or an idealization of female beauty in the form of a Hindu-maiden (God lenons, they are beauty itself) Raza Henz-yan, passes into Kongi, into Poshmal, Soundermal, Padmaeni, Kostouri, Kongi Padmani, take the primal place, for full lyric 'Kongi* haav-tai paan. Bo veer-na-gai he-mai za-gai La-gai mot gaer zaan Pooli to cheena-gund kya drengi, Kongi haa tai paan. ** I'll look for you at Veernag, in the garb of an unknown mendicent, at Pooli, cheeni-gund, Drengi. Give me a glimpse, Kongi* This is a virtual topographical map of the area, where Rasul Mir lived. The compiler of Q. Kulyati Rasul Mir has avered that Poshmaal too is a probable name of the Henziyaen. Rightly so. And so are Sondermaal, Kastour, Padmaan, Shama, which repeatedly occur in his verses.* Gul zun bae tse-nai jama tse-ttith nae-rh ba-ba-zaar Padmaeni aa-shaq chh-us tse pa-th bad-naam niga-ro ** Like a tulip, my robe I'll rent, and come forth; O Padmani, I'm thy loved, infamed by my love** Madno Padmaani mo dim dalai Mad-h chhas az to tai ada-h no var Aadan ba-jey va-da na dda-lai-h Hain-tse-i-h ko-tah tsa-l-h bo ** My love, spurn not this Padmani, now for another occasion is not meet. My primal mate, my word I won't break. How much shall I bear, ye pretender** Dil nith mae jaanus ma zaag Shama Soundri paa-mun mai laag Ram-nae-gr-i tsaar-thai veer nag ** My heart you've taken, trap not my body, O beautiful Shama, expose me not to..... I look for you at Veernag through Ram Nagri* Of course, all these proper nouns can be interpreted in adjectival sense, which every name in reality is Shama Sundri, can be dusky, Soundri, beautiful Shama, or a dusky beauty. And that point needs be made about, about Rasul Mir. For Rasul Mir is a poet of love, a poet par excellance even without any enchanting tales appended to him. He lives his heart out in love-ful lyrics, weaving patterns of beauty in the nunees of emale form and adornments, wringing out a resonance from every listening heart.* Tse yi-vaan roshe chhok-na-t-h ho-she dda-la-yo madno Be-h rivaan sor-ma chesman sor-m-h chha-lae-yo madno. ** You stay away, my angry love, and here I sink from senses dear; My tears flow and wash all kajal from my eyes dear** Me-hn eu-than tso-r-ri dil, mas-toor-i kor-tham hoo-ri k-soor Bad-nus soor ma-lai, door tse-la-yo madno Kha-ttith see-nus-andar na-lae ra-ttith Shama Sunder Jama zan sar-va-ka-dus paan va-lae-yo mad-no. ** My heart you stole, and left me a maiden. With a blot in Ashes I'll smear myself and wander away,dear Thee I'll hold by neck, and squeuster away in heart like robe I'll cling** Mot gom yaar farzana vesi-yey Kot gom tee kar ba zan-h vesiyay Pan-ai chho Yousef pa-nai zu-lai-kh-ah Panus chho aashaq paa-nai vesi-yey ** My wise lover is enchanted; whence gone, how'd I know' He is Yousef, himself is Zulaikhah; a lover he is undo his self, my dear.* Rasul Mir's object of love, is an idealization rooted in the world of sights, smells and tastes. His flowery aspect is as enticing as the exuded fragrance is invigorating.* He t-h masval, bai yimberzal, bar-r-h gai tse kun v-e-e-chhaan Chesm-h si-yah ro-kh vo-zae-lee Jam-h che-ti-yey latiyey ** Jasmine, Iris narcissus too, looking at thee have withered away/Thine eyes are black, face is red and robes are of the whitest hue** Aash-q-h tab s-o-n bhargi la-lus, yaam hae-vi-th man-zi num Aar-h-val chh-ey la-lae-na-vaan Na-ra-ta-li-yey lati-yey ** Loves fire bored into the poppy, the moment they he-nnaed hands it saw. The wild rose is nursing its boils from burning, dear* The beloved is seen in a floral mien, or else as an ethereal beauty fashioned of the most sublime things around. It is a portraiture that'd brook no reservation for love, because it is formed of a bubbling love, seeking an end and fulfillment in form. Beauty reaches divinity as it progresses to perfection.* Aash-q-h pae-chaan chho-e arg-vanun manz Ka-teh-h zoon zan don shah-maar-unmanz Naq-shi chee-nus zu-naar nachli-ye lo Bosh hus-nuk ro-zi na kae-li-ye lo. ** Like an Ivy caught in violets, a full moon trapped by pythons two; or a beauty of China wearing the sacred thread** Gum-h shab-num gul ro-kh-us Zan chhi arq daa-n-h tus Zooni pai-tth taa-ru-kh pa-kaan * *Kari ro-gun dur-dan.* * Like dew on a flower, are the drops of sweat on her face, or else starswalking over moon, that my high-necked love** Vuch aafta-bun chon tsan-dan mokh te dolus rang Gae-j Katch-h ta-vuy zoon chhus sar-saam nigaa-ro. ** The sun spied thy...Chandan face, and lost color/the moon there upon has been jaded and looks pale** Kad chon alif, laam zulf, meem da-hn chhoe Por akli sabaq shakli alif laam ni-gaa-ro. ** You are talllike alif, thy locks are long like laam, and thy mouth is meem itself; from thy form came all knowledge, in shape of alif-laam* Some where these heady portraits of the lover and beloved mingle into one whole. Kashmiri Gazal, says Abdul Ahad Azad, is a female seeking the lover, who is male. In Persian from where Kashmiri gazal derives its inspiration, the object of love is a male sought by a male singer. In Rasul Mir, the singer changes from woman to man, the poems, and the elements of female beauty get mixed with distinctly male attributes producing a bivalent image. Azad calls it a defect of conception. This defected concept,' runs in the Kashmiri gazals from Mahmood to Gani to Mahjoor. It certainly mars a distinctive characteristic of Kashmiri gazals, that set it apart from Persian and its offspring Urdu gazal. This trait has been preserved in female poetesses alone, like Habba and Arnimaal where there is no confusion. Rasul also gets into the gazal a boldness that is characteristically masculine. Thus:* gom ha-n-kli, dr-s-h go-m b-rai Ts-us gom va-li-nja yaar ma aam Tae-mi door see-n-h tai mae da-ri na-rey Van-tai vesi-yey konai aam ** The (door-) chain clanged the door was pushed my heart leapt, was my lover come' His chest he proffered and I my arms. Tell my friend, why didn';t he come** Zae-li dda-bi be-hi-mai ki-n-h rang-h la-rey vo-th ve-s-e yaa-rus prae-ng voth-rar Kai-n-h nai mang-sai shong-sai la-rey Van-tai vesi-yey kon-ai aam ** Would he grace in the balcony, or sit in the painted room' Arise, my friend, spread his bed. I ask for little, but to lay be his side. Tell, my friend why didn't he come** Chum kha-f-h laa-rai pa-ta-h la-yey bron-ttha na-lus thaf Da-maa-n-h ra-tt-ai ma-h-sha-rai baal ma-ra-yo ** He is angry, him I'll chase, by collor I'll catch hold of him/on dooms day, I'll hold thee by thy robe; without thee, here I die* It is a practice in Kashmir, for every poet even a singer, to have a spiritual preceptor, a peer. Rasul Mir is said to have had any peers. Rasul Mir sported majestic moustaches, which went tapering across the lip ending in a flowish. Some devotees, it is said, raised some religious objection to Rasul Mir's moustaches 'well ask him on the morrow' said the peer. At night, the devotees, it is said, saw in their dreams the peer himself with similar moustaches. Tuswof, does not alloy Rasul Mir's' poetry, Unless, of course, you twist and tear it out of context and 'discover' 'hidden meanings'. But Rasul Mir is an ardent lover, and on that plane, love becomes devotion, godhead. * Rasul chho zae-nith deen-o-maz-hab rokh te zulf chon Koh zani kya gov kufur to Islam niga-ro ** Rasuls, knows thy locks and looks is a fine faith.How'd he know what is kufur, and what Islam, dear* That is Rasul Mir bold beautiful poet of exquisite love. Singer of fervent lyrics. The breath of vibrant air, that sent its freshness over cobwebs of cloistered verses. Almost single handedly, he turned Kashmiri poetry into a bubbling love, gushing forth helplessly, sincerely, fervently. As it should in a vale of beauty* Zae-li vae-nkan bae-li yeli lagi shu-maar Pachh lag-nus gae-nz-ra-nus lachh tai hazaar Ami Sha-yi no mok-lan pa-yi lo-lo Rind-a posh-maal ginda-ney dra-yi lo-lo ** When count is taken of thy braids, lacs of fortnights it'll take. Once begun there is no escape from there. Lo, the gay love goes out to frolic* Poetry is, needlessly, harangued by analysis and postmortems, split as under to gorge out philosophies, burdened with the weights of duty and messages. Poetry is a communion of hearts. Pure andsimple with or without the appeals and advocacy's, philosophies or campaigns. There reigns Rasul Mir Supreme unmatched. A master singer of heart* Ruslan ta-a-zh kitaab, yi vaen-nai cha-ni ga-mai Ani kus taa-b-i jawab chav mey jam-i ja-mai ** This new volume Rasul has sung in thy pang, who' dare to rebut come,hand me another cup'.* -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 17:27:37 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280403o57faed1ep9b09f763d96f1c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <562622.72522.qm@web57211.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shaina Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive step. The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views being expressed. But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? Your earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. My interest is right now centered over your statement: "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir...." Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all the others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir" Kshmendra Kaul shaina a wrote: Dear Rashneek, If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going on about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) imagine vile and twisted role playing games. Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are engaging in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the same. What is it you fear? On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world > > remained silent) and > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group > > of > > film enthusiasts recently, > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > here: > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > anxieties, > > and to stop scoring empty points > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > > make > > these films broadly available. > > > > best, > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 17:31:16 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280403o57faed1ep9b09f763d96f1c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <897882.5936.qm@web57210.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shaina Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive step. The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views being expressed. But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? Your earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. My interest is right now centered over your statement: "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir...." Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all the others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir" Kshmendra Kaul shaina a wrote: Dear Rashneek, If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going on about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) imagine vile and twisted role playing games. Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are engaging in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the same. What is it you fear? On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world > > remained silent) and > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group > > of > > film enthusiasts recently, > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > here: > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > anxieties, > > and to stop scoring empty points > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > > make > > these films broadly available. > > > > best, > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. From kalakamra at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 19:02:50 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:02:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <562622.72522.qm@web57211.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <33eee40c0708280403o57faed1ep9b09f763d96f1c08@mail.gmail.com> <562622.72522.qm@web57211.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33eee40c0708280632kcb29d74u2619ef792ef34421@mail.gmail.com> dear Kshmendra, What am i provoking here? By providing a context to the transcript, I am lying about my desire to calm anxieties? Sure i can be quoted. But you will need to maintain other facts: That the said audience watched both The Human Tragedy by Ashok Pandit and Jashn-e-Azadi by Sanjay Kak. And they watched it in private, amongst friends, in their home. One film they downloaded in two parts from You tube and the other was a preview copy they acquired from a journalist in mumbai. best shaina On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Shaina > > Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive step. > The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views being > expressed. > > But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? Your > earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. > > My interest is right now centered over your statement: > > "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to > be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for > Kashmir...." > > Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: > > "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, > Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all the > others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film > Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir" > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > *shaina a * wrote: > > Dear Rashneek, > > If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to > getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going > on > about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to > making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) > imagine > vile and twisted role playing games. > > Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched > the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and > self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits > portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. > > 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. > They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are > engaging > in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. > > Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the > same. What is it you fear? > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > > > Regards > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the > world > > > remained silent) and > > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a > group > > > of > > > film enthusiasts recently, > > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > > here: > > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > > anxieties, > > > and to stop scoring empty points > > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > > > make > > > these films broadly available. > > > > > > best, > > > -- > > > shaina > > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rashneek Kher > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > ------------------------------ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers > from > someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From hpp at vsnl.com Tue Aug 28 19:21:57 2007 From: hpp at vsnl.com (hpp at vsnl.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:51:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Bengal renaissance Message-ID: Dear Friends, In case anyone was unaware, here is a news report (from today's Telegraph) that illustrates well the prevailing CPI(M) culture of West Bengal! Inquilab Zindabad! V Ramaswamy Calcutta ..................... Ex-MLA urinates on lady & minister OUR CORRESPONDENT Malda, Aug. 27: A former CPM legislator grabbed a la- dy army officer on Darjeeling Mail last night and apparently urinated on her. A couple of hours before, a sloshed Prakash Minj allegedly took a leak on civil defence minister Srikumar Mukherjee, who was also in the AC II-tier coach. The minister called police, but did not file a complaint. Major Minta P. Devgan did. The four-time MLA from Phansidewa was pulled out of the train at Malda station. Amal Sinha, a contractor accompanying him, was also arrested. But they were released on bail later. Major Devgan and her husband, Colonel Pankaj Devgan, who were travelling together, are both posted in Calcutta. In the complaint they filed with Government Railway Police in Malda, Minj was accused of “outraging her modesty”. Mukherjee saw Minj grappling with the woman. His security guard said he saw him have a pee while holding her. “It was nearly 11pm when I found a drunk man sitting on my berth. He identified himself as a CPM MLA,” Mukherjee said. The guard, Mohammad Sofi, who was called to escort Minj back to his berth, said he urinated in the minister’s coupe. A while later, Mukherjee heard a woman shouting for help. He saw the former MLA with his arms around a woman in blue jeans and white T-shirt. “I could see her struggling and rushed to pull him away,” said the CPI leader. Col Devgan jumped from his berth to the rescue of his wife. Although the entire compartment was awake in minutes, it took half an hour to subdue Minj. By that time, the train had pulled into Malda station and the minister asked his guard to call the police. Sofi said Minj was hurling abuses at the minister. “The man said the minister was from a minor constituent of the Left Front while he belonged to the ruling party,” Sofi said. Swapan Dasgupta, the inspector in charge of the Government Railway Police at Malda, confirmed that Minj was drunk. In the railway police lock-up this morning, Minj and Sinha were seen polishing off a plate of rice and curry. The party dropped Minj as an MLA candidate last year. He declined comment. Sinha said: “I consumed alcohol and went to sleep. I don’t remember anything untoward happening on the train.” From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 19:30:07 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280632kcb29d74u2619ef792ef34421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <419778.97750.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shaina 1. The provocation was in lashing out at Rashneek AFTER he appreciated your earlier mail. Let it be. 2. Where the films were watched and how they were obtained is of no consequence 3. What I would like to quote you on is your statement that "ALL the viewers... turned out to be SUPPORTIVE OF AZADI AND SELF-DETERMINATION FOR KASHMIR" Who needs Pakistan and Jihadis to wreck havoc in, destabilise and attack the Unity and Integrity of India. We have the likes of Shaina Anand, Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra to do it for the Pakistanis and Separatists. Well, according to Shaina Anand at least. Sanjay Kak has made a successful film. Yasin Malik and other "Azadi" and "hurriyat" separatists must be proud of him Kshmendra Kaul shaina a wrote: dear Kshmendra, What am i provoking here? By providing a context to the transcript, I am lying about my desire to calm anxieties? Sure i can be quoted. But you will need to maintain other facts: That the said audience watched both The Human Tragedy by Ashok Pandit and Jashn-e-Azadi by Sanjay Kak. And they watched it in private, amongst friends, in their home. One film they downloaded in two parts from You tube and the other was a preview copy they acquired from a journalist in mumbai. best shaina On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Shaina Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive step. The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views being expressed. But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? Your earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. My interest is right now centered over your statement: "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir...." Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all the others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir" Kshmendra Kaul shaina a < kalakamra at gmail.com> wrote: Dear Rashneek, If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed to getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going on about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening to making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) imagine vile and twisted role playing games. Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the filmmaker. They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are engaging in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do the same. What is it you fear? On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > Regards > > Rashneek > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the world > > remained silent) and > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a group > > of > > film enthusiasts recently, > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > here: > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > anxieties, > > and to stop scoring empty points > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces will > > make > > these films broadly available. > > > > best, > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Rashneek Kher > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. From kalakamra at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 20:24:43 2007 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:24:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <419778.97750.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <33eee40c0708280632kcb29d74u2619ef792ef34421@mail.gmail.com> <419778.97750.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33eee40c0708280754q2d23c59bl52df1498df715d19@mail.gmail.com> dear kshemendra, Yes, what you quote was my reading of it. Your conclusions are yours. best shaina On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul < kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > Dear Shaina > > 1. The provocation was in lashing out at Rashneek AFTER he appreciated > your earlier mail. Let it be. > > 2. Where the films were watched and how they were obtained is of no > consequence > > 3. What I would like to quote you on is your statement that "ALL > the viewers... turned out to be SUPPORTIVE OF AZADI AND > SELF-DETERMINATION FOR KASHMIR" > > Who needs Pakistan and Jihadis to wreck havoc in, destabilise and attack > the Unity and Integrity of India. We have the likes of Shaina Anand, Ashok > Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, > Nikhil Chopra to do it for the Pakistanis and Separatists. Well, according > to Shaina Anand at least. > > Sanjay Kak has made a successful film. Yasin Malik and other "Azadi" and > "hurriyat" separatists must be proud of him > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > *shaina a * wrote: > > dear Kshmendra, > > What am i provoking here? By providing a context to the transcript, I am > lying about my desire to calm anxieties? > > Sure i can be quoted. But you will need to maintain other facts: > That the said audience watched both The Human Tragedy by Ashok Pandit and > Jashn-e-Azadi by Sanjay Kak. > And they watched it in private, amongst friends, in their home. > One film they downloaded in two parts from You tube > and the other was a preview copy they acquired from a journalist in > mumbai. > > best > shaina > > > > > On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Shaina > > > > Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive > > step. The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views being > > expressed. > > > > But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? > > Your earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. > > > > My interest is right now centered over your statement: > > > > "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out > > to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for > > Kashmir...." > > > > Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: > > > > "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, > > Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all the > > others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film > > Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for Kashmir" > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > *shaina a < kalakamra at gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > Dear Rashneek, > > > > If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed > > to > > getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been going > > on > > about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs screening > > to > > making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) > > imagine > > vile and twisted role playing games. > > > > Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that > > watched > > the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and > > self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri Pandits > > > > portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. > > > > 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the > > filmmaker. > > They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are > > engaging > > in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. > > > > Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do > > the > > same. What is it you fear? > > > > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the > > world > > > > remained silent) and > > > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a > > group > > > > of > > > > film enthusiasts recently, > > > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, is > > > > here: > > > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > > > anxieties, > > > > and to stop scoring empty points > > > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces > > will > > > > make > > > > these films broadly available. > > > > > > > > best, > > > > -- > > > > shaina > > > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rashneek Kher > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers > > from > > someone who knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net > > > ------------------------------ > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads > at Yahoo! Search. > > -- shaina chitrakarkhana.net From samina at vsnl.com Tue Aug 28 20:59:59 2007 From: samina at vsnl.com (samina at vsnl.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:29:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Attack on Sanjay Kak's film! Message-ID: Rashneek, If it is indeed true that a screening of And the World Remained Silent was fixed, why don't you get the concerned person from the college or film society to confirm it. Or at least, tell us who you were interacting with. Of course, you can also expect people to just take your word for it - as I'm sure many do. Let us all decide which is the more credible version. And so, perhaps, now the list can be spared this petty sparring. Samina On 8/28/07 1:41 PM, "rashneek kher" wrote: > Since you cant beat them with arguments,label them > as bores,comic,fascists,nazis,propogandists.At least something will stick. In > all this ensure Yasin Malik is unscathed and made to emerge as > the neo-Gandhi.Next in line of your heroes should be Hyderabad > bombers...start working on new movie on them Ranjani... Live on..live > on Rashneek On 8/28/07, Ranjani Mazumdar > wrote: > > Dear Sanjay and Shuddha, > > If most of us have been keeping quiet > on the list its because we find it > dfficult to take the attacks on the two > of you seriously. Isn't it > abundantly clear that some people are out to make > personal attacks and > create trouble and not engage in any dialogue? Who in > their right minds > would want to set cops on a filmmaker because they > disagree with his > views? > Of course, we have no way of knowing whether they > have actually done that > or > they're just flexing their manly muscles but > whatever the case, they are a > bunch of bores! No matter what you say and > what evidence you produce they > are going to continue to attack you in rather > predictable and > unimaginative > ways so please ignore them. Fearless > listening is important but in some > situations, as in this one, refusing to > listen is a bloody good idea. > Sanjay, I look forward to seeing your film. If > it has riled so many people > into a frenzy, its certainly worth a watch! > > > Cheers, > Ranjani > _________________________________________ > reader-list: > an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek > Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com _________________________________ > ________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques > & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 22:05:34 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:05:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kkkscreenings. In-Reply-To: <33eee40c0708280754q2d23c59bl52df1498df715d19@mail.gmail.com> References: <33eee40c0708280632kcb29d74u2619ef792ef34421@mail.gmail.com> <419778.97750.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <33eee40c0708280754q2d23c59bl52df1498df715d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708280935r3c4e4237mda5b92e6447209e2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra . As so called intellectuals , I am shocked to learn that a movie made you go againt your nations policy. Against , for what thousand of our soldiers have given their life safeguarding against external threats ? Just a ,movie made you do so ..................I am sure after watching "Titanic" you all would have wished that all Big Ships should be banned . As the Big Titanic had sunk..... After all James Cameron is so many light years ahead in quality direction than this desperate director which made all of you think of disecting a part of our country.... God Bless On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > dear kshemendra, > > Yes, what you quote was my reading of it. > Your conclusions are yours. > > best > shaina > > > On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul < kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Dear Shaina > > > > 1. The provocation was in lashing out at Rashneek AFTER he appreciated > > your earlier mail. Let it be. > > > > 2. Where the films were watched and how they were obtained is of no > > consequence > > > > 3. What I would like to quote you on is your statement that "ALL > > the viewers... turned out to be SUPPORTIVE OF AZADI AND > > SELF-DETERMINATION FOR KASHMIR" > > > > Who needs Pakistan and Jihadis to wreck havoc in, destabilise and attack > > the Unity and Integrity of India. We have the likes of Shaina Anand, > Ashok > > Sukumaran, Saeed Mirza, Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, > > Nikhil Chopra to do it for the Pakistanis and Separatists. Well, > according > > to Shaina Anand at least. > > > > Sanjay Kak has made a successful film. Yasin Malik and other "Azadi" and > > "hurriyat" separatists must be proud of him > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > *shaina a * wrote: > > > > dear Kshmendra, > > > > What am i provoking here? By providing a context to the transcript, I am > > lying about my desire to calm anxieties? > > > > Sure i can be quoted. But you will need to maintain other facts: > > That the said audience watched both The Human Tragedy by Ashok Pandit > and > > Jashn-e-Azadi by Sanjay Kak. > > And they watched it in private, amongst friends, in their home. > > One film they downloaded in two parts from You tube > > and the other was a preview copy they acquired from a journalist in > > mumbai. > > > > best > > shaina > > > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shaina > > > > > > Rashneek thanked you for your earlier mail and called it a positive > > > step. The transcript you provided indeed had some interesting views > being > > > expressed. > > > > > > But, you are intent on provoking further exchanges, arn't you Shaina? > > > Your earlier stated desire to "calm anxieties" was just a lie. > > > > > > My interest is right now centered over your statement: > > > > > > "..... all the viewers in the room (that watched the films) turned out > > > to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and self-determination for > > > Kashmir...." > > > > > > Shaina I presume you have no objection on being quoted that: > > > > > > "According to Shaina Anand, she alongwith Ashok Sukumaran, Saeed > Mirza, > > > Abhay Sardesai, Nancy Adajania, Shilpa Phadke, Nikhil Chopra and all > the > > > others present at the 15th Aug, 2007 screening of Sanjay Kak's film > > > Jashn-e-Azadi are 'supportive of azadi and self-determination for > Kashmir" > > > > > > > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > *shaina a < kalakamra at gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > > > Dear Rashneek, > > > > > > If it is a positive step, then why are you so triumphant and committed > > > to > > > getting screenings of JeA stopped. For the past 3 days you've been > going > > > on > > > about a tit for tat rhetoric that has moved from screening vs > screening > > > to > > > making us (the few who are really bothering to digest all this bile) > > > imagine > > > vile and twisted role playing games. > > > > > > Just to get some facts straight, all the viewers in the room (that > > > watched > > > the films) turned out to be sympathetic and supportive of azadi and > > > self-determination for Kashmir, the apathetic plight of Kashmiri > Pandits > > > > > > portrayed in the first film, (and known to us) notwithstanding. > > > > > > 'Critical discussion' does not mean they hate the film and the > > > filmmaker. > > > They are individuals with a free will just like yours, and they are > > > engaging > > > in a conversation with the filmmaker. Try that you wont. > > > > > > Please do screen the film you chose to promote again and let others do > > > the > > > same. What is it you fear? > > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, rashneek kher wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot Shaina.A postive step. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Rashneek > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/28/07, shaina a wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > Ashok Pandit's the human tragedy (his earlier avatar of ...and the > > > world > > > > > remained silent) and > > > > > Sanjay Kaks jashn-e-azadi and were viewed as a "double-bill" by a > > > group > > > > > of > > > > > film enthusiasts recently, > > > > > on our 60th year of independence. > > > > > > > > > > The transcript of a broad and critical discussion that followed, > is > > > > > here: > > > > > > http://chitrakarkhana.kiberpipa.org/azadi/August15_2007_Kashmir.pdf > > > > > > > > > > We ofcourse encourage other people to do the same, to calm their > > > > > anxieties, > > > > > and to stop scoring empty points > > > > > by shouting. Soon, we hope, the internet and other worldly forces > > > will > > > > > make > > > > > these films broadly available. > > > > > > > > > > best, > > > > > -- > > > > > shaina > > > > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rashneek Kher > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > shaina > > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers > > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48254/*http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list&sid=396545469 > >from > > > someone who knows. > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > shaina > > chitrakarkhana.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48249/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz>at > Yahoo! Search. > > > > > > > -- > shaina > chitrakarkhana.net > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 22:38:47 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:38:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dreams Shattered : "Fanatics" of Aazadi did it all... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My 5 storey home was burned, looted and devastated but terrorists in early hours of July 1996. It had in it years of experience and work of my great grand father Master Samsar Chand Kaul who was the first ornithologist of Asia. We lived in Motiyar, Rainawari. The dark and violent night of 19th Jan. 1990 cannot be forgotten...exodus is what happened... ...untill one day we will return to our homes. I will see my land and kiss it in Motiyar, Rainawari where I was born and then kicked out. I would play on the land outside Vital Bhairava Mandir in Rainawari where our holy tree has been cut by the Islamic fanatics. I have never seen the land I belong to; but every night my lord takes me to the heaven where I belong to and I cry siletly till the night ends and so does my journey which I look upto every-night. *More on my blog - **http://kauladityaraj.blogspot.com/* Thanks *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com* *www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com* From yousufism at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 01:22:26 2007 From: yousufism at gmail.com (M Yousuf) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:22:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Internetism Message-ID: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear all By now you must be feeling like an abused and tortured lot. For sometime now at Reader List I have come across a rather childish debate about Kashmir, Freedom, Azadi, Freedom of speech and expression and Jashn-e-Azadi and When The World Remained Silent, the films and a whole gamut of hallucinations. Some people have been trying consistently to bring the debate some meaning. But it looks like some others have not been able to leave the realm of absurdity and a fetish for just keying in whatever occurs to their rented out minds. Aditya Raj Kohli, Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra and Pawan Durrani may need to read, listen and see while holding onto their skills to key in what appears trapped and recycled thinking. Bahut likh liye ab kuch pad bhi lo dosto....aur ho sakey to man ki aankhein khol ke kuch dekhney ki bhi koshish kar lo.... People living in Indian occupied Kashmir need and deserve freedom as much as these blackberry carrying ghosts. These occupied minds need freedom from being possessed by everything borrowed. Let me give this group a name. Their initials put together can be a good one. That makes them ARKP. ARKPs should be happy in a country which they so much love and defend everything about so blindly. They seem to happy about a film that is only about them yet do not want to see any other that may be about others (Although I personally think that is not what the film at the center of the DEBATE is all about...but I will leave it to those who's minds eyes are open enough). Theirs is truth all the way and complete while the other is only half truths. Can anybody from the ARKP explain why they cannot feel safe in the presence of 700000 Indian troops in J&K. They are supposed to be for the protection of people living in the valley...why can't this small contingent also protect the Kashmiris who are in exile IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Or do they want the valley to be cleansed of the current protectees first? May be 700000 is a bit too less for the ones already living in the valley and the exiled ones put together. I met a few Kashmiri muslims recently who have been following the Sarai List DEBATE. All of them separately told me that the likes of ARKP have been doing the same choking act for decades if not centuries inside Kashmir as well, the only difference being that it is not effective anymore. Well...ARKPs, the fact of the matter is that whatever the circumstances, you have made your choice by leaving your motherland. and you still can exercise the choice of going back and join the ones living in Kashmir...pandits and muslims alike. But you may have to accept that the advantages may not be the same as your parent generations had enjoyed. Will you call that democracy or terrorism? or Azadi? not everything about Kashmir can be prefixed with the state of Pandits anymore. And please stop playing victims and victimhood, you will for sure be outnumbered by the inhabitants of Kashmir...in a very democratic way. Kashmir's real political history has just begun to be written. IN THE HOPE THAT YOUR MIND'S EYES WILL STOP BEING BEHOLDEN TO A BORROWED VISION. Visit Kashmir....you might like it again. M Yousuf From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 08:51:44 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:51:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Internetism In-Reply-To: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708282021l3e0e6a13pd9d9f6d26a51f7e5@mail.gmail.com> Yosuf, Since you have only invectives to write...your mail deserves to be ignored on the following grounds *People living in Indian occupied Kashmir need and deserve freedom as much as these blackberry carrying ghosts.* ** *not everything about Kashmir can be prefixed with the state of Pandits anymore. * *And please stop playing victims and victimhood, * ** *Thanks ghost certificator.* ** * * On 8/29/07, M Yousuf wrote: > > Dear all > > By now you must be feeling like an abused and tortured lot. > > For sometime now at Reader List I have come across a rather childish > debate > about Kashmir, Freedom, Azadi, Freedom of speech and expression and > Jashn-e-Azadi and When The World Remained Silent, the films and a whole > gamut of hallucinations. > > Some people have been trying consistently to bring the debate some > meaning. > But it looks like some others have not been able to leave the realm of > absurdity and a fetish for just keying in whatever occurs to their rented > out minds. Aditya Raj Kohli, Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra and Pawan Durrani > may need to read, listen and see while holding onto their skills to key in > what appears trapped and recycled thinking. > > Bahut likh liye ab kuch pad bhi lo dosto....aur ho sakey to man ki > aankhein > khol ke kuch dekhney ki bhi koshish kar lo.... > > People living in Indian occupied Kashmir need and deserve freedom as much > as > these blackberry carrying ghosts. These occupied minds need freedom from > being possessed by everything borrowed. Let me give this group a name. > Their > initials put together can be a good one. That makes them ARKP. > > ARKPs should be happy in a country which they so much love and defend > everything about so blindly. They seem to happy about a film that is only > about them yet do not want to see any other that may be about others > (Although I personally think that is not what the film at the center of > the > DEBATE is all about...but I will leave it to those who's minds eyes are > open > enough). Theirs is truth all the way and complete while the other is only > half truths. Can anybody from the ARKP explain why they cannot feel safe > in > the presence of 700000 Indian troops in J&K. They are supposed to be for > the > protection of people living in the valley...why can't this small > contingent > also protect the Kashmiris who are in exile IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Or do > they > want the valley to be cleansed of the current protectees first? May be > 700000 is a bit too less for the ones already living in the valley and the > exiled ones put together. > > I met a few Kashmiri muslims recently who have been following the Sarai > List > DEBATE. All of them separately told me that the likes of ARKP have been > doing the same choking act for decades if not centuries inside Kashmir as > well, the only difference being that it is not effective anymore. > > Well...ARKPs, the fact of the matter is that whatever the circumstances, > you > have made your choice by leaving your motherland. and you still can > exercise > the choice of going back and join the ones living in Kashmir...pandits and > muslims alike. But you may have to accept that the advantages may not be > the > same as your parent generations had enjoyed. Will you call that democracy > or > terrorism? or Azadi? not everything about Kashmir can be prefixed with the > state of Pandits anymore. > > And please stop playing victims and victimhood, you will for sure be > outnumbered by the inhabitants of Kashmir...in a very democratic way. > Kashmir's real political history has just begun to be written. > > IN THE HOPE THAT YOUR MIND'S EYES WILL STOP BEING BEHOLDEN TO A BORROWED > VISION. > > Visit Kashmir....you might like it again. > > M Yousuf > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 09:15:05 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:15:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Manzoor Fazilis column in GK Message-ID: <13df7c120708282045g443be05kd8b7d1bc174180fa@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, Manzoor Fazili is one of my favourite columnists.His article in GK.He is a wonderful writer and a great human being. http://greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=29_8_2007&ItemID=4&cat=11 May Almighty bless him. Regards Rashneek -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 09:53:09 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:53:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Internetism In-Reply-To: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708282123u7058e108u90938c4ac6655c7@mail.gmail.com> Yosusuf , Your mail deserves only one reply and that is a quote by Samuel Johnson . It reads as "He that voluntarily continues in ignorance, is guilty of all the crimes which ignorance produces." I am sure you are wise enough to *atleast* understand what i mean . God Bless Pawan Durani On 8/29/07, M Yousuf wrote: > > Dear all > > By now you must be feeling like an abused and tortured lot. > > For sometime now at Reader List I have come across a rather childish > debate > about Kashmir, Freedom, Azadi, Freedom of speech and expression and > Jashn-e-Azadi and When The World Remained Silent, the films and a whole > gamut of hallucinations. > > Some people have been trying consistently to bring the debate some > meaning. > But it looks like some others have not been able to leave the realm of > absurdity and a fetish for just keying in whatever occurs to their rented > out minds. Aditya Raj Kohli, Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra and Pawan Durrani > may need to read, listen and see while holding onto their skills to key in > what appears trapped and recycled thinking. > > Bahut likh liye ab kuch pad bhi lo dosto....aur ho sakey to man ki > aankhein > khol ke kuch dekhney ki bhi koshish kar lo.... > > People living in Indian occupied Kashmir need and deserve freedom as much > as > these blackberry carrying ghosts. These occupied minds need freedom from > being possessed by everything borrowed. Let me give this group a name. > Their > initials put together can be a good one. That makes them ARKP. > > ARKPs should be happy in a country which they so much love and defend > everything about so blindly. They seem to happy about a film that is only > about them yet do not want to see any other that may be about others > (Although I personally think that is not what the film at the center of > the > DEBATE is all about...but I will leave it to those who's minds eyes are > open > enough). Theirs is truth all the way and complete while the other is only > half truths. Can anybody from the ARKP explain why they cannot feel safe > in > the presence of 700000 Indian troops in J&K. They are supposed to be for > the > protection of people living in the valley...why can't this small > contingent > also protect the Kashmiris who are in exile IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Or do > they > want the valley to be cleansed of the current protectees first? May be > 700000 is a bit too less for the ones already living in the valley and the > exiled ones put together. > > I met a few Kashmiri muslims recently who have been following the Sarai > List > DEBATE. All of them separately told me that the likes of ARKP have been > doing the same choking act for decades if not centuries inside Kashmir as > well, the only difference being that it is not effective anymore. > > Well...ARKPs, the fact of the matter is that whatever the circumstances, > you > have made your choice by leaving your motherland. and you still can > exercise > the choice of going back and join the ones living in Kashmir...pandits and > muslims alike. But you may have to accept that the advantages may not be > the > same as your parent generations had enjoyed. Will you call that democracy > or > terrorism? or Azadi? not everything about Kashmir can be prefixed with the > state of Pandits anymore. > > And please stop playing victims and victimhood, you will for sure be > outnumbered by the inhabitants of Kashmir...in a very democratic way. > Kashmir's real political history has just begun to be written. > > IN THE HOPE THAT YOUR MIND'S EYES WILL STOP BEING BEHOLDEN TO A BORROWED > VISION. > > Visit Kashmir....you might like it again. > > M Yousuf > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 10:01:28 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:01:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] By R.J. Rummel Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708282131w33239f00k11a3fa236da1071c@mail.gmail.com> With the passing of communism into history as an ideological alternative to democracy it is time to do some accounting of its human costs. http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 10:12:56 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:12:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Internetism In-Reply-To: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <19ba050f0708281252o781d8204q80d3db3954f5b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: People like Yousf are the trouble creaters everywere. Not a single sentense of his e-mails makes sense. This makes me realise of his poor knowledge of history and as well current affairs. He is just living inside his four walls and at the most his sight will go to his playground; his vision cannot go beyond that. So, he just wants to keep dreaming of Aazadi without understanding anything or applying brains. Debates on such serious issues can't be carried out with such communal charecters. I wish he could read more before jumping into this discussiong just to prove he knows not a bit what he is talking. Your mail is to be ignored for your sick mentality and indescent language. I replied because I felt pity at your current state. Please be carefull while writing or quoting names. My name is Aditya Raj Kaul. Cheers On 8/29/07, M Yousuf wrote: > > Dear all > > By now you must be feeling like an abused and tortured lot. > > For sometime now at Reader List I have come across a rather childish > debate > about Kashmir, Freedom, Azadi, Freedom of speech and expression and > Jashn-e-Azadi and When The World Remained Silent, the films and a whole > gamut of hallucinations. > > Some people have been trying consistently to bring the debate some > meaning. > But it looks like some others have not been able to leave the realm of > absurdity and a fetish for just keying in whatever occurs to their rented > out minds. Aditya Raj Kohli, Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra and Pawan Durrani > may need to read, listen and see while holding onto their skills to key in > what appears trapped and recycled thinking. > > Bahut likh liye ab kuch pad bhi lo dosto....aur ho sakey to man ki > aankhein > khol ke kuch dekhney ki bhi koshish kar lo.... > > People living in Indian occupied Kashmir need and deserve freedom as much > as > these blackberry carrying ghosts. These occupied minds need freedom from > being possessed by everything borrowed. Let me give this group a name. > Their > initials put together can be a good one. That makes them ARKP. > > ARKPs should be happy in a country which they so much love and defend > everything about so blindly. They seem to happy about a film that is only > about them yet do not want to see any other that may be about others > (Although I personally think that is not what the film at the center of > the > DEBATE is all about...but I will leave it to those who's minds eyes are > open > enough). Theirs is truth all the way and complete while the other is only > half truths. Can anybody from the ARKP explain why they cannot feel safe > in > the presence of 700000 Indian troops in J&K. They are supposed to be for > the > protection of people living in the valley...why can't this small > contingent > also protect the Kashmiris who are in exile IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Or do > they > want the valley to be cleansed of the current protectees first? May be > 700000 is a bit too less for the ones already living in the valley and the > exiled ones put together. > > I met a few Kashmiri muslims recently who have been following the Sarai > List > DEBATE. All of them separately told me that the likes of ARKP have been > doing the same choking act for decades if not centuries inside Kashmir as > well, the only difference being that it is not effective anymore. > > Well...ARKPs, the fact of the matter is that whatever the circumstances, > you > have made your choice by leaving your motherland. and you still can > exercise > the choice of going back and join the ones living in Kashmir...pandits and > muslims alike. But you may have to accept that the advantages may not be > the > same as your parent generations had enjoyed. Will you call that democracy > or > terrorism? or Azadi? not everything about Kashmir can be prefixed with the > state of Pandits anymore. > > And please stop playing victims and victimhood, you will for sure be > outnumbered by the inhabitants of Kashmir...in a very democratic way. > Kashmir's real political history has just begun to be written. > > IN THE HOPE THAT YOUR MIND'S EYES WILL STOP BEING BEHOLDEN TO A BORROWED > VISION. > > Visit Kashmir....you might like it again. > > M Yousuf > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk From kaksanjay at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 11:32:02 2007 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:32:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Security Message-ID: <5c5369880708282302y316a30d9off6ccaa06ad083c4@mail.gmail.com> > > Since the Sarai Reader list is fast emerging as the nerve centre for keeping track of National (and Anti-National) interest, I thought it my duty to make some humble offerings: On August 15, 2007 Indian Independence Day (what some linguistically misguided souls refer to as *Jashn-e-Azadi) *the Habitat centre in Delhi was once again the venue of something possibly troubling. A musical programme called – yes, believe it or not – *Jashn-e-Azadi* was held there. While they said it was just some patriotic songs and ghazals and so on, this could be subterfuge. After all there is a film with a similar title doing the rounds which may be up to some mischief; and then there is this separatist leader involved in something called *Safar-e-Azadi.* As a good citizen I'm just sharing this information which others may want to act upon. I was also wondering: could my role in translating the Police phone tap on the Delhi University lecturer SAR Geelani in the Parliament Attack case also be considered by the Sarai list a little differently? Though my translation from Kashmiri into English was summarily thrown out by the Trial Court on the grounds that I was an interested party (as a member of the All India Defence Committee for SAR Geelani), I mean, that court *did* pass a death sentence on Shree Geelani, did it not? Could my lack of success as a translator not be seen as a mark of my Patriotism? Just a thought, however ghoulish... With thanks in anticipation Sanjay Kak From zainab at mail.xtdnet.nl Tue Aug 28 16:10:28 2007 From: zainab at mail.xtdnet.nl (zainab) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:40:28 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Re: Clarification on the matter of allegedlyCancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62dccef7506914b207d13d0062b44b67@mail.xtdnet.nl> Dear all, I am not sure what is happening here. I have not seen the movie that Sanjay has made and hence I don't know what the content of the movie is. On this note therefore Sanjay, can I request you to help me organize a screening of your film in Bangalore? I would certainly like to see the film to understand the context of this thread of conversation on the list. A couple of things that have been on my mind with regards to this thread of conversation. I have visited Kashmir and have also been to the Kashmiri Pandit camps in Jammu. Undoubtedly, both sides are suffering as a result of the ongoing conflict in Kashmir. But it appears to me that memory and history is so strong that constantly, we are hearing the same rhetoric of displacement. By putting this so bluntly, I do not mean to belittle the trauma of displacement and the violence that the Pandits have suffered from and the displacement that the Kashmiri Muslims are suffering from both symbolically and actually. So, are our memories and histories so strong that we will never communicate with each other? Is that possibility of moving beyond our histories and memories so absolutely impossible? The rhetoric of rape, torture and violence at the hands of Yasin Malik and his cronies are not any longer good enough to justify the anger against the film that Sanjay has made and the anger against Sanjay himself. The other thought is about this discussion about freedom of speech and the nation. The Indian state is as much guilty, if no less, of the violence and atrocities in Kashmir. Why use torture and violence to keep a piece of territory and group of people together? Why rig elections in J&K to install some stooge of Delhi's as CM of J&K? Why send in the army in such large numbers that it is disconcerting even for an outsider to breathe freely in the Valley? What is this fear of disintegration? Can disintegration of 'the nation' happen with the click of a finger? Is the 'Indian nation' so fragile? Disintegration is likely when you force people to be with you rather than give them a choice to decide. It is like my parents forcing me to live with them at home and emotionally threatening me the possibility of disintegration of the family. Despite all the tortures that the Modi government inflicted on the Muslims in Gujarat, is there a single Muslim or a single person talking of the possibility of Gujarat separating from India? I ask once again, what is this fear of disintegration and who is perpetrating this fear? It is not about Shuddha and Jeebesh rising above the nation that gets them to say the things they say. It is the belief that the nation is not the primary social and determining force of our lives. It certainly is not the primary moving force in my life and I would not want it to be. I do not want the nation entering my house tomorrow and telling me to behave in certain ways because otherwise, there may be disintegration. Those who speak about the nation curtailing freedom of expression when there is threat of 'disintegration' must speak for themselves. Finally, to defend Sanjay's film by saying that he is expressing a point of view is as much a lament as those who lament the loss of home and believe this is good enough reason for a film not to be screened. It seems like we are all becoming The State and The Police in one way or another. Congratulations! Zainab On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:25:26 +0530, "Sanjay Kak" wrote: > Dear Shuddhabrata > > Since my name (or at least one very like mine) is at the center of some of > what has been going on in this space, I *should* be grateful to you for > taking the trouble to get the college concerned to give a clarification on > these two remarkably well discussed *non*-screenings. > > But I find I'm faintly disappointed with your responses: I mean, I was > actually beginning to enjoy reading what new act of villiany My Name might > be up to next, or where the hidden skeins would lead the intrepid > unravellers, or indeed what new threat might be posed to the Nation next > by > My Name... (But you've already had a sneak preview of that have'nt you, > after the thrilling Cancelled Screenings and Secret Funding chapters, > we've > had a hint of Threatening Phone Calls a few days ago, did we not? Watch > this > space, there will be more to come...) > > I know you would like a return to the Sarai Reader List as a place of > observation, reflection, whimsy, insight and other worthy ideals. But why > would you want to spoil our party? I havent had so much fun since I read > the > odd chapter of the new Harry Potter. And most of your 3000 odd subscribers > seem quite happy with all this too: why mess with a winning formula? > > Best > > Sanjay Kak > > On 8/27/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: >> >> >> Dear All, >> >> This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed >> many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character >> and reputation of a person. >> >> A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher > got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that >> Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening >> at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. >> >> On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the >> faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala >> Nehru College have communicated to me that - >> >> "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed >> upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. >> The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show >> or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any >> individual or body." >> >> This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the >> person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a >> screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and >> baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait >> until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in >> Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. >> >> I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity >> of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in >> insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and >> attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression >> that we all enjoy on this list. >> >> regards, >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From info at basementartproject.com Wed Aug 29 02:48:57 2007 From: info at basementartproject.com (BasementArtProject.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:18:57 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] AirVideo: Alternative Possible World- 31st Aug 2007 AirSpace Gallery, Stoke-on-Trent Message-ID: <37A4CF57-2250-43BB-B0D5-6890F669C940@basementartproject.com>  Alternative Possible World Preview 31st Aug 2007 7-9pm Exhibition 1st Sept - 7th Sept 2007 Gallery open Tue– Sat 11am-5pm Gaia Persico Michelle Letelier Toine Klaassen Steve Bishop Noémi McComber Ellakajsa Nordström Zhenchen Liu Andro Semeiko Monica Rodriguez Akiko and Masako Takada Ben Young Alexandra Crouwers “Alternative Possible Worlds” involves 13 international video artists who have gained recognition as emerging talents. The work has been selected based around concerns about a rapidly changing world. From the effects of a shifting global economy, the destruction or suppression of indigenous cultures, mass building programmes and urban sprawl to dreams of possible futures, informed by a mixture of 1950s science fiction and advancements in cloning and genetic manipulation. The artists “Alternative Possible Worlds” trace a fine line between the illusion of progress and potential catastrophe. AirVideo is a series of artists’ film and video events co-curated by Matt Roberts (www.mattroberts.org.uk) and Yu-Chen Wang of BasementArtProject.com. The events take place at the AirSpace Gallery in Stoke-on-Trent on 17th November 2006 and 23rd-24th March and 1st-7th Sept 2007. For more information www.BasementArtProject.com/ airvideo AirSpace Gallery, 4 Boad Street, Hanley, Stoke-on-Trent, ST1 4HL www.airspacegallery.org AirSpace Gallery and AirVideo are funded by the National Lottery through the Arts Council England. AirVideo website>>     -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 13:53:34 2007 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Volunteers Required for Caravan & Int. Week of Justice Sep07- Jan08 Message-ID: <666645.47947.qm@web60612.mail.yahoo.com> Volunteers Required PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY Amnesty International India requires Volunteers for Caravan and International Week of Justice Festival from September’07- January’08. Caravan and International Week of Justice Festival are intended to herald the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. These initiatives by Amnesty International India are intended to creatively connect youth to human rights issues such as right to life, right to fair trial, torture, displacement, violence against women, through performative arts and education. The programme will give students an opportunity to participate and present their creative skills. There will be a Training Workshop for all volunteers and a Theatre Workshop for volunteers with background in theatre (7, 8 & 9th September 2007). Volunteers will be awarded with an Appreciation Certificate along with a modest allowance to cover their food and travel expenses. Apply with your personal details, latest by 5 September 2007, at: Amnesty International India C 1-22, First Floor, Safdarjung Development Area, Hauz Khas, New Delhi. Ph. O11- 41642501 (Ext. 20). Mobile: 9811793127 E mail: sana at amnesty. org.in , sanadas26 at yahoo. co.in Unfortunately, the balance of nature decrees that a super-abundance of dreams is paid for by a growing potential for nightmares. Love is an act of endless forgiveness, a tender look which becomes a habit. Peter Ustinov ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From yousufism at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 14:05:10 2007 From: yousufism at gmail.com (M Yousuf) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:05:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedlyCancelled Screenings In-Reply-To: <62dccef7506914b207d13d0062b44b67@mail.xtdnet.nl> References: <5c5369880708271155k1fedaed9k3d482d669cf47bce@mail.gmail.com> <62dccef7506914b207d13d0062b44b67@mail.xtdnet.nl> Message-ID: <19ba050f0708290135q1296be92kea098ddad4c16108@mail.gmail.com> After a long time Zainab has brought in some fresh air into this space. I have seen Sanjay Kak's film.i personally think it is not possible to understand the film 'Jashn-e-Azadi' unless one leaves the notions of territorial freedom. The film is an excellent piece of work based on sound and stable tectonics. I hope the film maker soon finds a way to screen the film without him having to be present at every venue all the time. Jashn-e-Azadi to my understanding is a work that for the first time has tried to look at the discourse on Kashmir, and the issues and questions it raises, outside the high walled superframe in which what is happening in Kashmir and India today has been more or less successfully contained. the film provides some keys to open holes in the gas chamber of irrational nationalistic thinking about freedoms and political morality. The film is of extreme intellectual importance .it opens up opportunities to ask the real questions without pointing to any directions in which any answers may lie. May more and more people see Jashn-e-Azadi. The canvas has offered absolute intellectual honesty otherwise missing in the ongoing discourse. M Yousuf On 8/28/07, zainab wrote: > > > Dear all, > > I am not sure what is happening here. I have not seen the movie that > Sanjay > has made and hence I don't know what the content of the movie is. On this > note therefore Sanjay, can I request you to help me organize a screening > of > your film in Bangalore? I would certainly like to see the film to > understand the context of this thread of conversation on the list. > > A couple of things that have been on my mind with regards to this thread > of > conversation. I have visited Kashmir and have also been to the Kashmiri > Pandit camps in Jammu. Undoubtedly, both sides are suffering as a result > of > the ongoing conflict in Kashmir. But it appears to me that memory and > history is so strong that constantly, we are hearing the same rhetoric of > displacement. By putting this so bluntly, I do not mean to belittle the > trauma of displacement and the violence that the Pandits have suffered > from > and the displacement that the Kashmiri Muslims are suffering from both > symbolically and actually. So, are our memories and histories so strong > that we will never communicate with each other? Is that possibility of > moving beyond our histories and memories so absolutely impossible? The > rhetoric of rape, torture and violence at the hands of Yasin Malik and his > cronies are not any longer good enough to justify the anger against the > film that Sanjay has made and the anger against Sanjay himself. > > The other thought is about this discussion about freedom of speech and the > nation. The Indian state is as much guilty, if no less, of the violence > and > atrocities in Kashmir. Why use torture and violence to keep a piece of > territory and group of people together? Why rig elections in J&K to > install > some stooge of Delhi's as CM of J&K? Why send in the army in such large > numbers that it is disconcerting even for an outsider to breathe freely in > the Valley? What is this fear of disintegration? Can disintegration of > 'the > nation' happen with the click of a finger? Is the 'Indian nation' so > fragile? Disintegration is likely when you force people to be with you > rather than give them a choice to decide. It is like my parents forcing me > to live with them at home and emotionally threatening me the possibility > of > disintegration of the family. Despite all the tortures that the Modi > government inflicted on the Muslims in Gujarat, is there a single Muslim > or > a single person talking of the possibility of Gujarat separating from > India? I ask once again, what is this fear of disintegration and who is > perpetrating this fear? > > It is not about Shuddha and Jeebesh rising above the nation that gets them > to say the things they say. It is the belief that the nation is not the > primary social and determining force of our lives. It certainly is not the > primary moving force in my life and I would not want it to be. I do not > want the nation entering my house tomorrow and telling me to behave in > certain ways because otherwise, there may be disintegration. Those who > speak about the nation curtailing freedom of expression when there is > threat of 'disintegration' must speak for themselves. > > Finally, to defend Sanjay's film by saying that he is expressing a point > of > view is as much a lament as those who lament the loss of home and believe > this is good enough reason for a film not to be screened. It seems like we > are all becoming The State and The Police in one way or another. > > Congratulations! > > Zainab > On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:25:26 +0530, "Sanjay Kak" > wrote: > > Dear Shuddhabrata > > > > Since my name (or at least one very like mine) is at the center of some > of > > what has been going on in this space, I *should* be grateful to you for > > taking the trouble to get the college concerned to give a clarification > on > > these two remarkably well discussed *non*-screenings. > > > > But I find I'm faintly disappointed with your responses: I mean, I was > > actually beginning to enjoy reading what new act of villiany My Name > might > > be up to next, or where the hidden skeins would lead the intrepid > > unravellers, or indeed what new threat might be posed to the Nation next > > by > > My Name... (But you've already had a sneak preview of that have'nt you, > > after the thrilling Cancelled Screenings and Secret Funding chapters, > > we've > > had a hint of Threatening Phone Calls a few days ago, did we not? Watch > > this > > space, there will be more to come...) > > > > I know you would like a return to the Sarai Reader List as a place of > > observation, reflection, whimsy, insight and other worthy ideals. But > why > > would you want to spoil our party? I havent had so much fun since I read > > the > > odd chapter of the new Harry Potter. And most of your 3000 odd > subscribers > > seem quite happy with all this too: why mess with a winning formula? > > > > Best > > > > Sanjay Kak > > > > On 8/27/07, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> > >> > >> Dear All, > >> > >> This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed > >> many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character > >> and reputation of a person. > >> > >> A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher >> got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that > >> Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening > >> at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. > >> > >> On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the > >> faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of > Kamala > >> Nehru College have communicated to me that - > >> > >> "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > >> upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > >> The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to > show > >> or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > >> individual or body." > >> > >> This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > >> person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > >> screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > >> baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait > >> until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned > in > >> Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. > >> > >> I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the > dignity > >> of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in > >> insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and > >> attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression > >> that we all enjoy on this list. > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Shuddha > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From mitoo at sarai.net Wed Aug 29 11:54:05 2007 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:24:05 +0900 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] SSRC -- Call for Papers, Inter-Asian Connections Message-ID: <46D51105.8000705@sarai.net> **Social Science Research Council (SSRC)** CALL FOR PAPERS DEADLINE: FRIDAY, September 14, 2007 International Conference on Inter-Asian Connections (Dubai, UAE: February 21-24, 2008) The Social Science Research Council (SSRC) is pleased to announce an open call for *individual research paper submissions* from researchers in any world region, to participate in a 4-day thematic workshop at an international conference on "Inter-Asian Connections." To be held in Dubai, February 21-24, 2008, the conference will host concurrent workshops showcasing innovative research from across the social sciences and related disciplines, on themes of particular relevance to Asia, reconceptualized as a dynamic and interconnected historical, geographical, and cultural formation stretching from the Middle East through Eurasia and South Asia, to East Asia. The conference structure and schedule have been designed to enable intensive ‘working group’ interactions on a specific research theme, as well as broader interactions on topics of mutual interest and concern to all participants. Accordingly, there will be public keynotes, plenaries, and roundtables addressing different aspects of Inter-Asian research in addition to closed workshop sessions. The concluding day of the conference will bring all the workshops together in a public presentation and exchange of research agendas that have emerged over the course of the deliberations in Dubai. Individual paper submissions are invited for the following workshops: > Sites of Inter-Asian Interaction > Networks of Islamic Learning across Asia: The Role of International Centers of Islamic Learning in Building Ties and Forging New Identities > Distant Divides and Intimate Connections: Migrant Domestic Workers in Asia > Law-in-Action in Asian Societies and Civilizations > Multiple flexibilities: nation-states, global business and precarious labor > Neoliberal Globalization and Governmentality: State, Civil society and the NGO Phenomena in Asia > Initiatives of Regional Integration in Asia in Comparative Perspective: Concepts, Contents and Prospects > Border Problems: Theory, Culture, and Political Economy > Post-collective Economic Lives and Livelihoods: Studies of Economy, Institution and Everyday Practice in Post-socialist Eurasia and Asia > Transnational Circuits: 'Muslim Women' in Asia > Inter-Referencing Asia: Urban Experiments & the Art of Being Global Descriptions of the individual workshops, along with information on the application process, are available at: http://www.ssrc.org/program_areas/global/papers/. Application materials are due by *Friday, September 14, 2007. *Junior and senior scholars are encouraged to apply, whether graduate students and faculty affiliated to colleges and universities, or researchers in NGOs or other research organizations. Please note that an individual cannot apply to more than one workshop. Selection decisions will be announced on October 19, 2007. Accepted participants are required to submit a 20-25 page research paper by January 14, 2008. The SSRC will make every effort to subsidize the travel and accommodation costs associated with attending the conference, and we will issue a formal announcement about availability and levels of financial assistance for individual participants in the coming months. In the meantime, prospective participants are encouraged to seek out alternative sources of funding that may be available from their home institutions or other agencies. For additional inquiries, please contact the SSRC at intl_collaboration at ssrc.org . International Collaboration Program Social Science Research Council 810 Seventh Avenue, 31st Floor New York, NY 10019 P: 212.377.2700 F: 212.377.2727 _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mitoo at sarai.net Wed Aug 29 09:04:12 2007 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:34:12 +0900 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] land grab online art project Message-ID: <46D4E934.2060207@sarai.net> Hi, Sending you a mail that came on Dak. Hope it will be announced. Mitoo. ------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Sarai, I am a Danish New York-based curator currently organizing the project LAND GRAB, which addresses artists' claiming of space/land. Among other events, we have created landgrabonline.org in collaboration with Wooloo.org where artists can submit related projects. I thought the project might be of interest to your community. I have included the call for proposals below. Feel free to post or circulate. Let me know if you have any questions. All best, Sarah WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO CLAIM A PIECE OF LAND TODAY? The exhibition project LAND GRAB ONLINE seeks to display artworks that explicitly address the naming and claiming of space. Artists are encouraged to send in submissions including - but not limited to - issues of land ownership, real estate acquisitions, squatting on private or public property, citizenship and colonialism. The projects included need not occupy actual space. LAND GRAB ONLINE is the virtual counterpart to LAND GRAB - an exhibition to take place at the renowned art institution APEXART in New York City (Nov. 7 - Dec. 22, 2007). A planned LAND GRAB publication will include selections from both LAND GRAB and LAND GRAB ONLINE. LAND GRAB is a project instigated by the curators Lillian Fellmann and Sarah Lookofsky. To participate in the project, please go to landgrabonline.org. The application deadline is September 15th, 2007 (it is possible that it might be extended a week). (Midnight/Pacific Standard Time.) _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mitoo at sarai.net Wed Aug 29 11:57:09 2007 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:27:09 +0900 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] REAL Photography Award Message-ID: <46D511BD.9060104@sarai.net> Final Call for Entry to international artists, photographers, and architects. REAL Photography Award Theme: Nature/Urban Development/Architecture Prize: Euro 50,000 Deadline: September 1, 2007. This is an Amsterdam based photography prize. Basing in China, I notice that the information flow hasn't yet arrived here. If you may publicize this information on your web page, that will be very helpful to get more Asian artists participate, because the three themes are just the very key issues here. For further information, please log on www.realphotographyaward.com eMail: chaos at chaosprojects.cn _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 18:08:33 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] National Security In-Reply-To: <5c5369880708282302y316a30d9off6ccaa06ad083c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <952460.49536.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sanjay I am sure that your tongue-in-cheek cheek style has given you satisfaction. Spiced with sarcasm which is a great device to use. (I will myself be employing it in analysing the Shaina Anand transcript of your conversation) "Jashn-e-Azadi" is not a title SK invented. It might surprise you but it has been used in the past a whole lot of times. Your sarcasm notwithstanding, you know that. It's been used to celebrate India's Independence. Not like Sanjay Kak's usage to support those who want to excise India, carve it up, destroy it. Or so it turned out to be. Am I overdramatising it? Sanjay you need to objectively take stock of the support your film has received. Map out the profiles of those people and evaluate what some of them stand for. SK you have provided them with ammunition, they celebrate your film. You are a honest hero in their eyes. A supporter for break-up of India. Do you think they care that for you it was a journey of a particular kind and that you would never claim that your film represents the totality and all dimensions of the Kashmir issue? They will and have used you to suit their narrow purposes. You Sanjay Kak are "complicit" as you yourself admitted elsewhere. Those "Azadi" or "Hurriyat" personalities are not the only ones, but also those who I call the "la la landers", ostensibly loyal Indias but for whom it is fashionable to attack India or support those who attack India, whether by word or action or through a Sanjay Kak film. Sanjay, look around, in fact look at the communication in SARAI. For the moment forget those who have been attacking you, and pay attention to those who have spoken in support of you. Evaluate their rationality and arguments or plain dismissiveness/ridicule of reasoned argument. You will see some worms coming out of the woodwork waving the flag of "Jashn-e-Azadi". As an example look at the recent postings of M Yousuf. SK your "translator" role is a sadder aspect of you. It brings into question your personal morality and integrity. You did not go to Kashmir till 2003 and yet maintained enough proficiency in Kashmiri to act as a "translator" seems a bit incredulous. If you do not have the language skills in Kashmiri required of a "translator" (especially for critical testimony in a Legal case) then you are downright dishonest. It would impinge on credibility of your character. A few hours of conversation with you in Kashmiri would make it clear either way. SK, you come out worse if you do have enough competence in Kashmiri to act as a "translator". A translation of "Ye kyah Korvu?" can be only be "What is this you people have done" or singular in a respectful tone "What is this that you have done". There is no other translation possible. Need I add more about how SK reportedly translated it and the possible implications both on the testimony and SK's honesty and motives? That your "translation" was thrown out is hardly the issue, nor that Geelani received the "death sentence". Incidentally, I personally am totally and vehemently against the "death sentence" in it's cold pronouncement or execution by any Institution for whatever reason or crime. Sanjay, here is what I propose if you are interested. Get in touch with these KPs who have been hounding you. Offer them a screening of your "Jash-e-Azadi". Offer to discuss your role as a film-maker. Listen to what they have to say. Listen to their ventings. You might be moved enough to make another film with an alternate perspective. It might be another journey for you. One where you will not be depending on some people making available "found footage" It requires both moral and artistic courage. Kshmendra Kaul Sanjay Kak wrote: > > Since the Sarai Reader list is fast emerging as the nerve centre for keeping track of National (and Anti-National) interest, I thought it my duty to make some humble offerings: On August 15, 2007 Indian Independence Day (what some linguistically misguided souls refer to as *Jashn-e-Azadi) *the Habitat centre in Delhi was once again the venue of something possibly troubling. A musical programme called – yes, believe it or not – *Jashn-e-Azadi* was held there. While they said it was just some patriotic songs and ghazals and so on, this could be subterfuge. After all there is a film with a similar title doing the rounds which may be up to some mischief; and then there is this separatist leader involved in something called *Safar-e-Azadi.* As a good citizen I'm just sharing this information which others may want to act upon. I was also wondering: could my role in translating the Police phone tap on the Delhi University lecturer SAR Geelani in the Parliament Attack case also be considered by the Sarai list a little differently? Though my translation from Kashmiri into English was summarily thrown out by the Trial Court on the grounds that I was an interested party (as a member of the All India Defence Committee for SAR Geelani), I mean, that court *did* pass a death sentence on Shree Geelani, did it not? Could my lack of success as a translator not be seen as a mark of my Patriotism? Just a thought, however ghoulish... With thanks in anticipation Sanjay Kak _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 18:08:46 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] National Security In-Reply-To: <5c5369880708282302y316a30d9off6ccaa06ad083c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <447122.19993.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sanjay I am sure that your tongue-in-cheek cheek style has given you satisfaction. Spiced with sarcasm which is a great device to use. (I will myself be employing it in analysing the Shaina Anand transcript of your conversation) "Jashn-e-Azadi" is not a title SK invented. It might surprise you but it has been used in the past a whole lot of times. Your sarcasm notwithstanding, you know that. It's been used to celebrate India's Independence. Not like Sanjay Kak's usage to support those who want to excise India, carve it up, destroy it. Or so it turned out to be. Am I overdramatising it? Sanjay you need to objectively take stock of the support your film has received. Map out the profiles of those people and evaluate what some of them stand for. SK you have provided them with ammunition, they celebrate your film. You are a honest hero in their eyes. A supporter for break-up of India. Do you think they care that for you it was a journey of a particular kind and that you would never claim that your film represents the totality and all dimensions of the Kashmir issue? They will and have used you to suit their narrow purposes. You Sanjay Kak are "complicit" as you yourself admitted elsewhere. Those "Azadi" or "Hurriyat" personalities are not the only ones, but also those who I call the "la la landers", ostensibly loyal Indias but for whom it is fashionable to attack India or support those who attack India, whether by word or action or through a Sanjay Kak film. Sanjay, look around, in fact look at the communication in SARAI. For the moment forget those who have been attacking you, and pay attention to those who have spoken in support of you. Evaluate their rationality and arguments or plain dismissiveness/ridicule of reasoned argument. You will see some worms coming out of the woodwork waving the flag of "Jashn-e-Azadi". As an example look at the recent postings of M Yousuf. SK your "translator" role is a sadder aspect of you. It brings into question your personal morality and integrity. You did not go to Kashmir till 2003 and yet maintained enough proficiency in Kashmiri to act as a "translator" seems a bit incredulous. If you do not have the language skills in Kashmiri required of a "translator" (especially for critical testimony in a Legal case) then you are downright dishonest. It would impinge on credibility of your character. A few hours of conversation with you in Kashmiri would make it clear either way. SK, you come out worse if you do have enough competence in Kashmiri to act as a "translator". A translation of "Ye kyah Korvu?" can be only be "What is this you people have done" or singular in a respectful tone "What is this that you have done". There is no other translation possible. Need I add more about how SK reportedly translated it and the possible implications both on the testimony and SK's honesty and motives? That your "translation" was thrown out is hardly the issue, nor that Geelani received the "death sentence". Incidentally, I personally am totally and vehemently against the "death sentence" in it's cold pronouncement or execution by any Institution for whatever reason or crime. Sanjay, here is what I propose if you are interested. Get in touch with these KPs who have been hounding you. Offer them a screening of your "Jash-e-Azadi". Offer to discuss your role as a film-maker. Listen to what they have to say. Listen to their ventings. You might be moved enough to make another film with an alternate perspective. It might be another journey for you. One where you will not be depending on some people making available "found footage" It requires both moral and artistic courage. Kshmendra Kaul Sanjay Kak wrote: > > Since the Sarai Reader list is fast emerging as the nerve centre for keeping track of National (and Anti-National) interest, I thought it my duty to make some humble offerings: On August 15, 2007 Indian Independence Day (what some linguistically misguided souls refer to as *Jashn-e-Azadi) *the Habitat centre in Delhi was once again the venue of something possibly troubling. A musical programme called – yes, believe it or not – *Jashn-e-Azadi* was held there. While they said it was just some patriotic songs and ghazals and so on, this could be subterfuge. After all there is a film with a similar title doing the rounds which may be up to some mischief; and then there is this separatist leader involved in something called *Safar-e-Azadi.* As a good citizen I'm just sharing this information which others may want to act upon. I was also wondering: could my role in translating the Police phone tap on the Delhi University lecturer SAR Geelani in the Parliament Attack case also be considered by the Sarai list a little differently? Though my translation from Kashmiri into English was summarily thrown out by the Trial Court on the grounds that I was an interested party (as a member of the All India Defence Committee for SAR Geelani), I mean, that court *did* pass a death sentence on Shree Geelani, did it not? Could my lack of success as a translator not be seen as a mark of my Patriotism? Just a thought, however ghoulish... With thanks in anticipation Sanjay Kak _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 20:11:06 2007 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Hi Message-ID: <497752.15548.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi vedavati, I am impressed with the articles you wrote for websites on several issues that india facing, particularly humanity,secularism etc., India is a secular country with unity in diversity and most of the people following tradition and culture. Marriage system is so strong in india and purely based on caste. Not only marriage but the entire life is dependent on caste for hindus since birth to death. Rituals varry among states but the system is same. I never find any article written by you on this particular subject. I studied that you are a maharastrian got married to a kashmiri pandit. So either of you consider the things like caste,sub-caste,gothra,zodaic match? Could you please responde to me on this. Regards, Dhatri. --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 22:21:55 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:21:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Marxist-communism: China's Failed Ideology Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708290951s3c1a8188y90d255841d11dda6@mail.gmail.com> An ideology can fail for a number of reasons, and its success is equated to whether or not it is still effective in a state. A major reason why an ideology might fail is that it is no longer in use, because it did not yield the ideal result that it sought out. Another reason is, it is not popular for the government to use. An example would be the Marxist-communism ideology. After eighty years of practicing this ideology, the Former Soviet Union has replaced their ideology of a rigid, state-run economy with a "democratized" state. Even in China, it to is drifting away from the Marxist ideology it once used. Perhaps communism had a limited effect such that these two major communist states have changed their plan of action. Also, communism is actively practiced in very few countries such as North Korea and Cuba. There might be something wrong with this ideology that it was not well embraced around the world. One such explanation is that outside externalities, which an ideology has no control over may effect its performance and legitimacy. For the purpose of this essay, China will serve as an example why this method of action has failed in practice. But first, we must understand what an ideology is. Read more at : http://www.sfu.ca/~joes/jnn/specials_china/index.html From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 22:51:46 2007 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:21:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Faiz - The Kashmiri Pandit in Exile Message-ID: <676034.94211.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Faiz is one of my favourite poets and some of his best work has been produced when he was in exile. I have taken the liberty of attempting to translate one of his finest "in exile" poems. My lack of skill has forced alterations in both structure and content. In it is a transmigration of "exiles"; from his to mine. Faiz - The Kashmiri Pandit in Exile Hark, my heart, itinerant soul It has been so ordained Now you and I exiled again Town to town our pathways Our cries rending alleyways Seeking clues of the tidings bearer A question for every stranger What more has befallen my Land Unfamiliar and alien streets Our days merging into night Speaking to this one Speaking to that one Conversations held with no one How shall I tell you about it The suffocation of woeful nights If 'twere to come into account My death I would not rue Deliverance for a wretched state But how many deaths shall I die ............. aalok aima (with apologies to Faiz) The original by Faiz: dill-e-munn, musaafir-e-munn meray dill meray musaafir hua phir se hukm saadir ke vatan badar ho.n hum tum dain gali gali sadaayain karain rukh nagar nagar ka ke suraag koi paayain kisi yaar-e-naamaabar ka har ek ajanabi se poochain jo pataa tha apnay ghar ka sar-e-ku-e-naashanaayaa.N hamain din se raat karnaa kabhi iss say baat karnaa kabhi uss se baat karnaa tumhain kya kahoon ke kya hai shab-e-gham buri balaa hai hamain ye bhi tha ghanimat jo koi shumaar hota hamain kya buraa thaa marna agar ek baar hota Faiz Ahmed Faiz In exile, London 1978 --------------------------------- Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. Do it now... From fmadre at free.fr Wed Aug 29 23:19:39 2007 From: fmadre at free.fr (frdrcmdr) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:49:39 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Marxist-communism: China's Failed Ideology In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70708290951s3c1a8188y90d255841d11dda6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70708290951s3c1a8188y90d255841d11dda6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D5B1B3.8040103@free.fr> what you call an ideology does not exist in the ether of the mind (this I learned from dialectical materialism), it exists as it is practiced. it can be easily argued that the practice of dialectical materialism was widely different in the soviet union and china, also arguable that it was widely different when at the hands of lenin and stalin... and also different before the revolution, during it, and after in the case of only lenin statements like "communism is actively practiced in very few countries such as North Korea and Cuba", by being generic about the use of the word "communism" and also by implying that a so called ideology could be the same in so different geographical and historical countries, show that the writer has little understanding of the subject matter or approaches it in a metaphysical way, at best, totalitarian at worst after this prolegomena, I will read the text thank you f. Pawan Durani a écrit : > An ideology can fail for a number of reasons, and its success is equated to > whether or not it is still effective in a state. A major reason why an > ideology might fail is that it is no longer in use, because it did not yield > the ideal result that it sought out. Another reason is, it is not popular > for the government to use. An example would be the Marxist-communism > ideology. After eighty years of practicing this ideology, the Former Soviet > Union has replaced their ideology of a rigid, state-run economy with a > "democratized" state. Even in China, it to is drifting away from the Marxist > ideology it once used. Perhaps communism had a limited effect such that > these two major communist states have changed their plan of action. Also, > communism is actively practiced in very few countries such as North Korea > and Cuba. There might be something wrong with this ideology that it was not > well embraced around the world. One such explanation is that outside > externalities, which an ideology has no control over may effect its > performance and legitimacy. For the purpose of this essay, China will serve > as an example why this method of action has failed in practice. But first, > we must understand what an ideology is. > > Read more at : > > http://www.sfu.ca/~joes/jnn/specials_china/index.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Thu Aug 30 07:28:56 2007 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <21875.56125.qm@web8401.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <562319.28190.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Sadia, Sorry for the belated reply.I guess I could not explain myself clearly.Kshmendra has articulated it better than me.Anyways,I will try once more. To take a rough analogy;all of us are traveling in a boat.It does not matter really how we evolved into it.The boat should prohibit any activity which may sink it,isnt that logical? Lets take the matter of Kashmir out of this for a sec.Right now,lets just focus on this:Whether it is justified by a nation to ban any kind of freedom of expression on any pretext.You obviously think there should be no checks on the freedom of expression.I would say,as I did in my earlier email,that anything which is contradictory to the essential nature of the state,should be banned.I gave the example of Iran.I will give one other example.Lets suppose there is a monarchy in which there is hereditary succession.Suppose someone starts preaching about democracy in a monarchy.So yeah they will be jailed etc.Its only after a revolution,civil war etc that one can change the essential nature of a nation state. Lets come to India now.Its a secular democracy.Now the founding fathers of the nation wanted it to be so.Lets consider two imaginary scenarios and you tell me where freedom of expression will lead to in that scenario.. 1. BJP-RSS-VHP talk about making India a hindu state and start giving inflammatory speeches about muslims. 2. Chief of army staff writes a book on the corrupt politicians and argues how dictatorship is good for India.He starts holding meetings and tries to build a consensus that civilians are not fit to rule the country and military should take over.He even starts ad campaigns on TV. I could give several such examples.The steps to my reasoning is.. 1.Anything which is contradictory to the essential nature of state;the state will not provide a constitutional procedure to let that happen. 2.The only way to bring about that kind of change is civil war\blood shed. 3.If freedom of expression is provided in such a scenario,it could lead to violence and in the extreme case the change of the essential nature of the state. If we still do not agree that the nation is justified in curbing the freedom of expression in certain cases,please let me know what you think. You have talked about nation and constitution not being divine ordained,of course its not;but I did not get your point.What are you trying to say?Are you pointing at the Caliphate and Shariat in place of nation and constitution?If you are then again I would say;the secular democratic nation of India should suppress your freedom of expression.A secular democracy is what I was born into and this is how I want it to stay.Please note that this is not a moral judgment on your stand,its just that I have chosen my side. You have also talked about"the current version of nationalism being full of gas" I totally agree with you.Nationalism to me is first and foremost an idea that gives us certain freedoms,protections and basically enables all of us to peacefully coexist.Beyond that,I have no use for it.I am not an "India Shining" or "mera bharat mahaan" kind of patriot.Its not a judgement on those who are, but I just want you to understand where I am coming from. So I would support full freedom of expression on anything that can be achieved without violating the essential nature of the state.Even the constiution is open for amendment.But the essential nature of the state is not. If there is anything else I have missed,please let me know. There is the specfic matter about "self determination in kashmir".I will post on that later;time permitting. regards Rahul --- "S.Fatima" wrote: > Dear Rahul > I don't agree with you on this. Where has this > concept > of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it > there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, or > 2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any > Shastras? > I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by > the > colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many > things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this > concept as it suits our ends. Why? > And what is constitution/legisilation? Is it a voice > of God? Is it embedded in our DNAs? Isn't that > created > by some individuals (who we may or may not agree > with). > > I think its time we rise above the definition of the > Nation if we want to bring any real change. And a > civil war and bloodshed is not required for that. > What > is required is the opening of hearts and minds. > > > > --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > Corrections to my post: > > Sanjay Kak is the name of the person..and the > movie > > was not banned but prevented by Police to be > > screened.I apologise on posting without reading > the > > full details.But the basic issue still > stands.viz.Is > > the nation justified in preventing from screening > > \banning some forms of expression? > > > > > > --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > > > > > Jeebesh,Shuddha or any other champion of freedom > > of > > > expression, > > > I really want to understand where you guys are > > > coming > > > from and I think it is very necessary for the > > people > > > of the country that we get at the bottom of > > > this,because you guys reflect the opinion of a > lot > > > of > > > people in the media. > > > A nation is defined by certain underlying > > > principles.Those principles are not that are > > subject > > > to amendment by legislation.So,for example,Iran > is > > > an > > > Islamic democracy.Its the underlying principle > of > > > the > > > state and even if 99% want to be secular,there > is > > no > > > process in the framework by which Iran can > become > > > secular,unless of course,there is a civil war > and > > > some > > > bloodshed, in which case,anything is possible. > > > India is a secular democracy.To anyone who wants > > to > > > create a Hindu/Muslim/Christian nation;does not > > have > > > a > > > constitutional way to accomplish this.Violence > of > > > course is always a recourse.The principle of > > > immutability of borders is one of the principles > > > which > > > is inherent to the existence of every nation > > > state.India is no exception.As far as I know,no > > > nation > > > gives a constitutional process to redraw its > > > borders. > > > So,the only course followers of such an > intention > > > have > > > is violence,terrorism etc. > > > So,the facts of the case are this,Amitabh Kak > made > > a > > > movie enabling the ideology which is against the > > > basic > > > underlying principles of the nation.It was > > banned.I > > > do not see your problem with this.Now of > > course,the > > > fact that the movie did enable that ideology or > > > not,can be argued.but not that it shouldnt be > > > banned. > > > You guys may have risen above the concept of > > nation > > > religion etc, but nation itself,by > definition,cant > > > rise above the definition of itself. > > > (I think this is a simple statement,dont know > why > > it > > > comes out so convoluted;perhaps my English is > not > > > good > > > enough.Anyway..) > > > So to ask the nation to allow freedom of > > expression > > > on > > > ideologies which go against its underlying > > > principles > > > and which if enabled,can only lead to violence > and > > > strife,is like asking a primary school to use > "We > > > dont > > > need no education" as its morning prayer. > > > To further illustrate my point,I think Amitabh > > Kak's > > > background or financier is irrelevant here.So is > > the > > > traumatic roleplaying that Jeebesh was subjected > > > to.If > > > a group of old ladies in a village in Kerala > > > suddenly > > > decide that they want a separate country and > start > > > distributing pamphlets,I would support > > confiscating > > > the pamphlets and giving them adequate > > > punishment.Freedom of Expression my foot! > > > Jeebesh/Shuddha,lets try to convince each > other.I > > > believe its very important. > > > Hoping to hear from you > > > Best, > > > Rahul > > > > > > --- Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > > > > > Jeebesh > > > > > > > > The pain in your words is touching. The > pathos > > > in > > > > your questions will move the coldest of > hearts. > > > > > > > > Aahhhhhh! no one left to argue with and > > > convince. > > > > Alas! this deep fear and inability to live > with > > > > disagreements. Woe on this desire of people to > > > > satiate their rage. Curse those trying to > > restrain > > > > our intellectual lives. > > > > > > > > Jeebesh your traumas need attention. Let's > do > > > some > > > > role-playing with you as the protagonist. > > > > > > > > It was a small world, a village of sorts > where > > > > everyone knew everyone else. Close cousins > were > > > > called "my brother" and "my sister", other > than > > > > parents and grandparents, every adult was an > > > "uncle" > > > > or "aunt". > > > > > > > > In it lived Jeebesh. In the last of his > teens > > or > > > > maybe just past them but really a child as > most > > > > young men were in those seemingly but largely > > > > uncorrupted surroundings. For long years (some > > say > > > > since many a centuries from the past) they > > > retained > > > > the innocence of Trust and Hope. > > > > > > > > SK also lived there or at least today he > > claims > > > > to. SK is Jeebesh's "cousin". Everyone in your > > own > > > > age group was a "cousin" if you could not > trace > > > out > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 09:18:22 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:18:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hi In-Reply-To: <497752.15548.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <497752.15548.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708292048r2654cd0au3a9287e4ba092b8@mail.gmail.com> Vedavati, Be kind to post some of your works on this forum for all of us to read. Regards Rashneek On 8/29/07, we wi wrote: > > Hi vedavati, > > I am impressed with the articles you wrote for websites on > several issues that india facing, particularly humanity,secularism etc., > India is a secular country with unity in diversity and most of the people > following tradition and culture. Marriage system is so strong in india and > purely based on caste. Not only marriage but the entire life is dependent on > caste for hindus since birth to death. Rituals varry among states but the > system is same. I never find any article written by you on this particular > subject. > > I studied that you are a maharastrian got married to a > kashmiri pandit. So either of you consider the things like > caste,sub-caste,gothra,zodaic match? Could you please > responde to me on this. > > > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 09:20:45 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:20:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Faiz - The Kashmiri Pandit in Exile In-Reply-To: <676034.94211.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <676034.94211.qm@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13df7c120708292050r71e8c169n33917ed9e010cfc0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Cashmeeri, This is a wrong forum to post this poem.Soon you will be branded communal,fascist and more. Anyways nice translation,nonetheless,but be prepared to be assaulted by "Kashmir Experts" here. Regards Rashneek On 8/29/07, cashmeeri wrote: > > Faiz is one of my favourite poets and some of his best work has been > produced when he was in exile. I have taken the liberty of attempting to > translate one of his finest "in exile" poems. My lack of skill has forced > alterations in both structure and content. > > In it is a transmigration of "exiles"; from his to mine. > > > Faiz - The Kashmiri Pandit in Exile > > Hark, my heart, itinerant soul > It has been so ordained > Now you and I exiled again > > Town to town our pathways > Our cries rending alleyways > Seeking clues of the tidings bearer > A question for every stranger > What more has befallen my Land > > Unfamiliar and alien streets > Our days merging into night > Speaking to this one > Speaking to that one > Conversations held with no one > > How shall I tell you about it > The suffocation of woeful nights > If 'twere to come into account > My death I would not rue > Deliverance for a wretched state > But how many deaths shall I die > > > ............. aalok aima > (with apologies to Faiz) > > > The original by Faiz: > > dill-e-munn, musaafir-e-munn > > meray dill meray musaafir > hua phir se hukm saadir > ke vatan badar ho.n hum tum > dain gali gali sadaayain > karain rukh nagar nagar ka > ke suraag koi paayain > kisi yaar-e-naamaabar ka > har ek ajanabi se poochain > jo pataa tha apnay ghar ka > sar-e-ku-e-naashanaayaa.N > hamain din se raat karnaa > kabhi iss say baat karnaa > kabhi uss se baat karnaa > tumhain kya kahoon ke kya hai > shab-e-gham buri balaa hai > hamain ye bhi tha ghanimat > jo koi shumaar hota > hamain kya buraa thaa marna > agar ek baar hota > > Faiz Ahmed Faiz > In exile, London 1978 > > > > --------------------------------- > Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, > easy and free. Do it now... > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From adityarajkaul at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 10:09:25 2007 From: adityarajkaul at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:09:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From reel life to real life Message-ID: *From reel life to real life* *Statesman News Service* Link: http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2&theme=&usrsess=1&id=168064 *JAMMU, Aug 29:* Remember the film Khosla Ka Ghonsla where Kher spends all his savings to buy a piece of land which was grabbed by a land mafia. When he runs from pillar to post for justice, the top cops tell him they can mediate and get him good money for the land. The movie it seems, has been replicated in Kashmir. A displaced Kashmiri Pandit woman is fighting a similar battle to save her property in Sopore, North Kashmir from land mafias and police who are allegedly are protecting the culprits. Mrs Vijay Bindroo inspite of owning a huge tract of land in New Sopore Colony, now lives in makeshift camps for Kashmiri Pandit migrants in New Delhi. "A well-wisher informed that our property, worth Rs 2.5 crore, had been sold by Mr Sayed Mohd Fareed, a resident of Shahabad, Anantnag," she told a Press conference today. Mr Fareed, a relative of former CM Mr Mufti Sayeed had forged the signatures of Mrs Bindroo's husband Chaman Lal and prepared documents supporting the sale of the land. Threatening the couple, he asked them not to fuss over the issue as "he had a strong political clout and knew a few militants too." Even police officers including Mr Dilbagh Singh, IG, crime and railways, allegedly told her that he would get her a good price for this land. "Mr Singh told me that as Kashmiri Pandits would not return why I wanted to retain my land," she said. J&K forensic department reports said the signatures on the documents were genuine and the case was referred to Chandigarh whose reports said clearly that the signatures were forged. When contacted, IG Mr Singh said he did not remember the details of the case while Mr Sunil Sharma, DIG crime and railways, refused to comment on the issue. Mr Vinod Pandit, chairman of All Parties Migrant Coordination Committee said an Act was passed in the LA as the J&K Migrant Immovable Property (Preservation, Protection and Restraint of Distress Sales Act 1997), but the lands are still being sold clandestinely in Kashmir. *-- Aditya Raj Kaul Blog: www.kauladityaraj.blogspot.com Website: www.adityarajkaul.tk* From invitations at shelfari.com Thu Aug 30 13:57:28 2007 From: invitations at shelfari.com (vsp) Date: 30 Aug 2007 01:27:28 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Do we like the same books? Message-ID: I just joined Shelfari to connect with other book lovers. Come see the books I love and see if we have any in common. Then pick my next book so I can keep on reading. Click below to join my group of friends on Shelfari! http://www.shelfari.com/Register.aspx?ActivityId=5200194&InvitationCode=8ed7045c-00c3-48d5-87a9-d6c647ea81e8 vsp Shelfari is a free site that lets you share book ratings and reviews with friends and meet people who have similar tastes in books. It also lets you build an online bookshelf, join book clubs, and get good book recommendations from friends. You should check it out. -------- You have received this email because vsp (arsagar at gmail.com) directly invited you to join his/her community on Shelfari. It is against Shelfari's policies to invite people who you don't know directly. Follow this link (http://www.shelfari.com/actions/emailoptout.aspx?email=reader-list at sarai.net&activityid=5200194) to prevent future invitations to this address. If you believe you do not know this person, you may view (http://www.shelfari.com/vsp) his/her Shelfari page or report him/her in our feedback (http://www.shelfari.com/Feedback.aspx) section. Shelfari, 616 1st Ave #300, Seattle, WA 98104 From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Aug 31 06:15:05 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:15:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Translation, Guilt, Innocence and Two Cups of Coffee Message-ID: <46D76491.9060906@sarai.net> Dear All, It is always interesting and worthwhile to participate in a discussion on questions of the interpretation and translation on language, and about how our notions of truth are stabilized or destabilized by the apparatus of recording. We learn a lot, especially when the issues at stake are as vital and significant as innocence and guilt. This is especially true when at the heart of the discussion lies an alleged offence which has resulted in the ultimate punishment of the death penalty being awarded, twice, and then rescinded, on grounds of lack of evidence. This task requires us to look at language, law, evidence, theories of mind, interpretative agency, reportage and a host of other things. This is precisely the kind of stuff that the Reader List was set up to do. So thanks in advance to all those, especially Aditya Raj Kaul, Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra Kaul , Pawan Durani and others who have provoked this posting/thread. 1. Apologists and Apologies As you must have figured out by now, I am referring to the spate of postings that we have all recently read, that have, in one way or another, raised the question of Sanjay Kak's purported 'mistranslation' of the intercepted recording of a telephonic conversation between SAR Geelani and his brother Faizal immediately after 13 December 2001, during the POTA trial court proceedings in the '13 December Case', while appearing as a defence witness (Defence Witness #2, if I am not mistaken) for SAR Geelani. These postings have appeared because - a) having failed to garner sympathy for the position that 'Jashn-e-Azadi' is a film that should not be available for uninterrupted and undisturbed screenings, or that it should be banned, or that it should be prevented by the police from being seen; and b)having witnessed the demolition on this list of the allegation that the purportedly Roots in Kashmir (RIK) initiated screening of 'And the World Remained Silent' in Kamala Nehru College was cancelled at the behest of those who wanted a screening of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' (following clarifications from Kamala Nehru College and Sanjay Mattoo, the person who tried to organize the screening of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in the first place, as to the exact chronology of events) - those involved in the campaign to stop the film from being watched (RIK activists and their sympathizers) were left with no other alternative but to train their guns on the filmmaker, on the members of this list, and to begin making yet another series of allegations about the filmmakers motives and antecedents. Having failed in their vilification of the message, they have now turned on the messenger. They elected to follow rule 38, 'leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character' - from that wonderful list of rules of how to win an argument on the cheap, attributed to Scopenhauer in Faiz Ullah's post 'to win and argument...' made on the 20th of August on the Sarai Reader List. Unfortunately for them, this strategy, though momentarily disorienting, (because we find it difficult to imagine that people would stoop so low as to do such things, and when they do, find ourselves momentarily stunned) is bound to fail, in fact it has failed already, for reasons that I hope to show in some detail in this set of postings. This will involve some very close reading of newspaper reports, articles and court proceedings, and some technical details, and will be a lengthy post, and may be tedious for some, because, in keeping with the ethical standards that this list commits itself to, and that a majority of its readers expect, I cannot afford the luxury of making unsubstantiated or unsubstantiatable statements. I have to quote sources, contextualize and build an argument based on the actual content of publicly available documents as opposed to conjecture, prejudice and hearsay. I find myself compelled to do this not because I am personally interested in having those who make these allegations exposed for what they are, but because this list is a public record of sorts, and I do have an interest in ensuring that we as list members still retain the capacity to correct the grossest of distortions that suddenly erupt amongst us. So apologies in advance for the length of this posting. I really do apologize for the length of my recent postings but I am hoping that you all will understand that when dealing with a multi-headed hydra as I find myself having to, I too am forced to become a snake with a never ending tail, : ) In other words, even a single rejoinder has to be long and comprehensive enough to deal with the venom injected by (apparently) many different heads. I need to deploy some heavy artillery to deal with so much (badly aimed) sniper fire. Apologies also, for attempting to write this in coherent, straightforward and ungrammatical english, so that at least my mirror, and all those given to ordinary conversation on this list can understand what I am writing. Enough apologies, enough preliminaries. Lets get down to business. 2. Mistranslating a Mistrial As someone who happens to have followed the trial that is being referred to ('The Parliament Attack/13 December' Case) quite closely over the last five years, as regular readers on this list will no doubt recall, I think that I can lay a claim to more than a casual interest in the matter. The A.R.K.P interpretation (thanks, Yousuf for a handy nomenklatural abbreviation for this 'league of extraordinary gentlemen' of Aditya, Rashneek, Kshemendra and Pawan, or should I say 'Amalgamated Recidivist Kooks & Poseurs') of a fragment of the trial proceedings, makes for interesting reading. But a word of caution, we would do well to dwell a little on the relationship between what was recorded, what was said in court, what was reported, and how it is now being interpreted by the 'forensic linguistics' division of A.R.K.P, before we jump to any conclusions, either about Sanjay Kak's purported dissimulation, or about A.R.K.P's motives in making these seemingly infinitely expanding series of allegations. I get a liitle concerned, perhaps even a little suspicious when I see allegations begetting allegations with such velocity aand with such with remarkable, and self-congratulatory, promiscuity. Let me first take the newspaper reports and articles that were quoted recently on an A.R.K.P blog post, titled 'A Lie Which Cheated the Courts' in a blog titled 'The Kashmir' and which Pawan Durani, and then Aditya Raj Kaul refer to, more than once - in their postings. http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/a-lie-which-cheated-the-courts/ The blog entry (and accompanying comments) basically say that - Sanjay Kak (and Sampath Prakash) 'mistranslated' the phrase that they render as 'Yeh Kya Korua' which occured in the conversation between SAR Geelani and his brother. The court, they say, was misled by their 'mistranslation' and hence, SAR Geelani was acquitted. Nested within this blog entry are four hyperlinks, two of which are relevant to the question at hand - 1. A report in the Hindu, Friday, May 02, 2003 ' Parliament attack case: HC questions prosecution version of arrests' http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/02/stories/2003050202871300.htm and 2. Basharat Peer's essay in the Guardian - 'Victims of December 13', July 5, 2003 http://www.guardian.co.uk/kashmir/Story/0,2763,990901,00.html (It is in the contents of Basharat Peer's essay that the A.R.K.P theory of 'mistranslation' finds its ammunition. Mind you, I am saying contents, not argument, because Basharat's argument runs entirely counter to the A.R.K.P version of the question of SAR Geelani's guilt or innocence, but that is not immediately important. Many among you will remember Basharat Peer, he was a Sarai Independent Research Fellow, and his excellent essay on reporting from Srinagar is available on Sarai Reader 04: Crisis Media at ) I will analyse each of these stories in turn, examine how they are being read in the blog under discussion, look at some additional material, and then, I will turn to the publicly available court records of the case, to try and see if there is any sense in what A.R.K.P are saying. Let's get a few facts right first. The depositions made by Sanjay Kak and Sampath Prakash did not get SAR Geelani his acquittal. These depositions were made at the appelate proceedings at the High Court, and the High Court confirmed the sentence of death awarded to Geelani by the trial court. Sanjay Kak has pointed this out himself, in his posting on this list - the one in which he reprimands me for spoiling the party we are all having in watching the A.R.K.P hydra expose itself. The High Court confirmed the death sentence, even though it found the prosecution's arguments with regard to this particular phone intercept severely wanting (see below), while simultaneously dismissing the value of Sanjay Kak and Sampath Prakash's testimonies, not on the grounds of inadequate or faulty translation, but on the ground that they, being members of the All India Defence Committee for SAR Geelani, were not disinterested witnesses.. SAR Geelani's acquittal at the Supreme Court too was not based on the testimonial contributions of Sanjay Kak or Sampath Prakash, but on the failure of the prosecution (including in the instance of the phone intercept) to show that they in fact had any concrete evidence against him. Perhaps A.R.K.P are unaware of the fact that the Indian legal system (with the aberrant exception of the now repealed POTA) works with the assumption that it is guilt that needs to be proved, not innocence. Let us, for the sake of argument, assume that A.R.K.P now realize their factual error in stating that it was Sanjay Kak's testimony that 'freed' Geelani, and focus next on intention rather than on consequences. Not in order to win or lose a legal wager, but in order to retain their terribly difficult and hard won position on the slippery slope of their self-assumed moral high ground. Then they would argue that it hardly matters whether or not Geelani was acquitted on the basis of these statements, what matters is that an attempt was made to mislead the court, and by extension, the people of India. This attempt (in their reading of reality) shows that Sanjay Kak, (and by association, those who stand by him) are indulging in dissimulation. Now this would be true if, a) the crux of SAR Geelani's purported guilt of innocence could logically be demonstrated to lie in the indisputable meaning of the words 'Yeh Kya Korua'. and, b)if the police/prosecution/A.R.K.P version/translation of the conversation were shown to be perfectly in concordance with and consistent with the context in which the conversation (of which, remember, the intercept is an imperfect recording) took place. Remember this, because this is going to be crucial when we look at the actual court record of how this was looked at in the Supreme Court, where the matter was finally decided on. But for now, let us stick first to the question of the quality of the telephone intercept as evidence, and secondly to the interpretations given to the words, 'Yeh Kya Korua' This is what the report on the Hindu (which is a report on the appelate trial proceedings in the High Court, not on the POTA Trial Court) that the 'Lies that Cheated the Courts' posting links to, has to say on the first of these two questions (the evidentiary quality of the intercept). This report, which A.R.K.P invoke but never detail, merits quotation at length, in fact, in its entirety. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parliament attack case: HC questions prosecution version of arrests The Hindu, Friday, May 02, 2003 http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/02/stories/2003050202871300.htm By Our Special Correspondent [ NEW DELHI MAY 1. The two-judge bench of the Delhi High court, hearing appeals in the Parliament attack case, today closely questioned the Prosecution on its version of the arrests made in the case and the contradictions that it throws up. The Special Prosecutor, Gopal Subramanium, had told the court, quoting Delhi police's Investigating Officer, Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma, that the telephones of S.A.R. Geelani and Afsan Guru/Navjot Sandhu, had been tapped on December 13. Calls recorded on December 14 — between Geelani and his brother at 12.12 p.m. and between Afsan and her husband at 8 p.m. — pointed to their connection with the attack and suggested that Shaukat Hussain and one other person were in Srinagar. Geelani's house was put under surveillance on December 13 and December 14. He was arrested at around 10 a.m. on December 15 and Afsan Guru at 10.45 a.m. Information received from Afsan Guru about the registration number of the truck in which her husband was travelling was sent to Srinagar. On the basis of this, the truck was located at 8 a.m. on December 15 and Shaukat Hussain and Mohammed Afzal were arrested by 11.45 a.m. The Srinagar police officer, who made the arrests, stated in evidence that he received information about the truck's registration number at 5.30 a.m. on December 15. The defence has maintained that Geelani was arrested on December 14 at around 1 p.m. and Afsan between 6 and 6.30 p.m. Justice Usha Mehra asked Mr. Subramanium to explain the discrepancy in the evidence of the Delhi police (that the arrests were made after 10 a.m. on December 15 and information sent to Srinagar) and of the Srinagar police (that it acted on information received at 5.30 a.m.). ``If you go only by the clock, then the prosecution is not telling the truth'', Mr Subramanium said. The question related to the credibility of the witnesses. ``Your Lordships would have to be assisted to see which witness is believable''. Justice Mehra suggested that ``a lesser explanation'', such as the one offered by the defence that Geelani and Afsan were arrested on December 14, better suited even the prosecutions version of the arrests. She told Mr. Subramanium that if the court were to believe his witness, Mohan Chand Sharma, it would have to disbelieve the story of the arrests in Kashmir. Justice Mehra also pointed to other gaps in the Prosecutions story. Why did the police, which apparently acted with speed to ascertain phone details, intercept calls and mount surveillance on Geelani on December 13, not go to the evening college where he taught, even if only to get his description to help in his arrest? Given that the identity cards on the dead militants suggested a Kashmiri connection, why had the police, when intercepting calls, not considered that these might be in Kashmiri and engage a Kashmiri interpreter? How did the investigating officer who did not know Kashmiri and had admitted that the translation of the call involving Geelani was done after it was recorded, decide that it was the ``relevant'' one ? ] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fortunately, unlike their lordships, we do not need much 'assistance' to see whether or not the A.R.K.P cohort, in their new found role as witness, prosecutor, judge and executioner combined are indeed 'credible'. (and I am glad that Rashneek, at least has expressed a reluctance to play the role of the hangman because he says that he is, like me, against the death penalty, I am happy that there are some things on which at least Rashneek and I can genuinely find agreement) Let us see why I think we don't need much assistance. 3. Figures of Speech The chronology spelt out by the above quoted report, which 'Lies that Cheated the Courts' unhesitatingly invokes, is very clear. When Geelani was arrested, (according to the prosecution) on the morning of December 15, no one in the Delhi Police, least of all Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma, knew what the contents of this infamous phone call was. Even though it is on this that the prosecution built so much of their argument. It had simply not yet been 'translated' for the police .In other words, if the meaning of 'Yeh Kya Korua' in this conversation was unambiguously - 'What did you all do' - and if it is true that this phrase referred to the attack on the Parliament - a fact on which hinged the suspicion that Geelani was involved in the December 13 incident, then, the police, while arresting him, had no clue as yet that this was indeed the case. They were arresting him for saying something that they had not yet known at that time that he had said. They had no other grounds for arresting him. His cell phone number was found on the phones recovered from the body of some dead men. That was all. [Aside: Consider this - it is possible that in some hours, I might be able to get Aditya Raj Kaul's cell phone number from somewhere, and feed it in the directory of my cell phone, or that in some hours, someone will key in Aditya's number into my cell phone. It is also possible that I am in fact a terrorist who is, in a few days,weeks, months, hours, who knows when - about to lead a suicide attack on a Cafe Coffee Day outlet because I really do not like the way they brew their coffee. It is possible, indeed more or less sure that I will die in this attempt. It is possible that my cell phone will then yield Aditya Raj Kaul's mobile number, (because I have either been dying to talk to him all along, or because someone has keyed in this number and put that phone on my dead body) and that then, Aditya Raj Kaul (who, it is true, I have been in regular touch with as a fellow subscriber on the Reader List, something my laptop will surely yield) will then be arrested and held for five years in solitary confinement, and be sentenced twice to death on the grounds that he was the terrorist mastermind of the 'All India and J&K Coffee Liberation Squad', of which I was a mere zombie underling, sent out to court death for the sake of better aroma for us all You get my drift: End of Aside] The depositions of the investigating officer in the case at the trial court are to the effect that there were other conversations, other intercepts. The depositions of the prosecution witness who translated the intercept, the fruit vendor Rashid Ali, and the man who actually did the interception both indicate that there was a great deal more that was said, and that again - there were other conversations. But the investigating officers chose to zero in on Geelani on the basis of these two minutes and sixteen seconds alone of a recording where the signal drops not once, but twice, without taking into account the intercepts of the other calls. But the fact remains that none of these intercepts were 'translated' or available in any form for the police to understand when the arrests were made. So how, then, did the police know which 'segment' of which recording of which intercept was relevant to their theory that Geelani was guilty, that he was in fact the mastermind? Secondly, the police officer concerned, was clearly not speaking the truth about the timing of the arrests, because if we are to believe his chronology of when Geelani and Afshan were arrested in Delhi, we have to disbelieve the actual time of arrest of Shaukat Hussain and Muhammad Afzal in Srinagar. If the Delhi police is truthful (Geelani suspect and arrest justified) then the Srinagar police is lying (thus Afzal innocent). Yet Afzal and Shaukat are the only key suspecst who have actually been found guilty. And if the Delhi police is lying (about the timing of Geelani and Afshan's arrest (because they get to Afshan only through Geelani) then the entire story falls apart. This is why, the phone intercept, is a basically a flawed piece of evidence. If we take it very seriously, then everything else falls apart in the case. Further, if we take the contents of the conversation to be a tacit admission of complicity, then something even more interesting occurs. If 'Yeh kya korua' can only mean 'what did you/you all do in Delhi' which in turn can only mean 'what did you/you all do, as in try to attack the Parliament in Delhi' then, the person who asks the question, that is Feizal, is clearly aware of what is going on. He would not be in a position to make a reference to an event that had just unfolded if he had not been aware of its imminent unfolding in advance. In other words, in order for Feizal to have asked a question which can only be read as a reference to the attack on Parliament, Feizal needs to have been in on the conspiracy. And yet, Feizal, who was investigated and questioned at length by the police has never been charged. There is no attempt to make a case against him. If Geelani is guilty because he 'knew', (and that is all we can surmise if we accept this postion, that he 'knew' because there is nothing else that can be said with regard to the man) then, according to the argument of the defeated prosecution case and the renascent forensic expertise of A.R.K.P, so must Feizal be guilty. Yet, no one has ever been able to pin anything on him. And yet the 'needle of suspicion' continues to quiver in the direction of SAR Geelani, at least in the arguments that A.R.K.P are making. 4. 'What Happened' Still, let us for form's sake, continue to try and take their position seriously. Let us actually go into the language of what is being said, and the context in which the conversation takes place. Basharat Peer's excellent article in the Guardian, the second and more apparently 'damning' revelation dredged up by the diligent A.R.K.P blog-soldiers actually says the following - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Giving evidence in court, Kak said, "The Kashmiri equivalent of 'What's happened?' is 'Yeh Kya Korua'. It is a generic term used for a range of ordinary circumstances, such as when a child spills a glass of milk or when there is snowfall or a marital dispute." The younger brother of the accused teacher had called simply to get a syllabus and a prospectus. He translated that portion of the call as: Receiver (accused teacher): "Tell me what you want?" Caller (his brother): "Syllabus and prospectus." (from Basharat Peer's article, cited and linked above) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Remember, Kak does not say that 'What's happened' is a *translation* of 'Yeh Kya Korua'. He says it is an *equivalent*. The word equivalent connotes a similarity of valence or value, not an identity. Equivalent is not identical. Equivalent means 'something approximating to another thing' not 'something identical with another thing'. But Kak does not stop here. He locates the phrase rendered as 'Yeh Kya Korua' in the context of how people might talk about events, idiomatically - as 'a generic term used for a range of ordinary circumstances'. Just as in Bengali, we might say 'E ki kando' (what's been done/'Oh, what happenned') or 'E ki korlen' ('what did you do') to express - surprise, delight, pain, pleasure, irritation, wonder, astonishment and a whole gamut of expressions. Idiomatic language often contains expressions that might have a different import from their 'literal' meaning, and that may or may not refer to personalized interactions, but could even extend to general comments on nature and the cosmos, as a way of 'greasing' the levers of conversation. Such that a Bengali like me could say, very easily, to another Bengali 'e ki korlen' while looking up at the thundering sky, in a difficult to translate idiomatic move that includes in its ambit, not just the other person, but also the sky god Indra as well . Sampat Prakash's testimony in the trial court also includes several examples of the diversity of ways in which the phrase, "Yeh Kya Korua' might be deployed in ordinary conversation between two Kashmiris who were on familiar but respectful terms with one another. But I digress, it is not references to natural phenomena that we are discussing here. The question of context becomes all the more important if we look at the entire contents of the conversation - which is about a syllabus, a prospectus and a host of other humdrum matters, some of which are referred to not explicity, but implicitly.. Actually, it is interesting to read the entire conversation. And you can read it as a downloadable pdf, in romanized Kashmiri and English, in no place other than Sarai Reader 04 - Crisis Media (page 158) on the page facing the beginning of Nandita Haksar's article 'Tried by the Media': The SAR Geelani Trial. The pdf file is available for free download, like the entire contents of all Sarai Readers at http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media Read it carefully, and you will see that on line 15 there is a statement (after static noise) by Faizal, Geelani's brother which reads, in mixed Kashmiri and Hindustani - "meh vonmus 'hota hai' " - which translates as "I said it happens (hota hai)". This is preceded by polite, near phatic preliminaries of a totally casual nature, and followed by an enquiry about a prospectus, at the end of which, Faizal asks, "Yeh kya korua". To which Geelani responds by asking "Kya?Dilli ha" ('What?In Delhi?) and Faizal asks again, "Dilli Kya Korua". it is here that the words "Kya Korua" are located. Indeed, they can mean 'what did you do', or 'what happenned' depending on how you choose to read them, because neither reading is incorrect or antagonistic, even if one is more exact and the other is idiomatically apposite. In fact, if you do read them as 'what did you/you all do' too, there is room for ambiguity, because the query could be about people in the plural, or as correctly hinted at, even in part by Rashneek, as a - second person singular respectful, (not plural) past perfect continuous question. Whichever way you choose to read it. it must be read in conjunction with the "hota hai" that has preceded it by second. And once you do that, there is no getting away from the fact that the query refers to a situation, a general state of being, rather than to a concrete event. ' Even the prosecution has never really challenged the reading of 'Kya Korua' as a reference broadly suggesting 'What;s happenned'. This is clear from another report in the Hindu. One which A.R.K.P neglect to invoke, but I am quite happy to pull out of my archive of news reports of the 13 December trial. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dec. 13 case: tape of phone intercept played in court The Hindu, Tuesday, May 06, 2003 By Our Special Correspondent http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/06/stories/2003050604181200.htm NEW DELHI MAY 5. The tape-recorded telephone intercept, which was the mainstay of the prosecution's case against S.A.R. Geelani during the trial of the Parliament attack case, was today played for the Delhi High Court bench hearing the appeals. The prosecution has maintained that the tape contains the question, put to Mr. Geelani by his brother, "what happened in Delhi'' to which he laughs and replies "yeh che zaroori (this was necessary)''. Having heard the tape, Justice Nandrajog said that he had not heard "yeh che zaroori''. Justice Usha Mehra asked the Special Prosecutor, Gopal Subramanium, if this evidence was the core of the evidence against Mr. Geelani. "I am not putting all my eggs in the basket of that intercepted call,'' he replied. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. 'Was This Necessary?' Things get a little complicated for the A.R.K.P theory here. This newspaper report seems to suggest that even the prosecution refers to the question 'Yeh Kya Korua' as 'What's happenned in Delhi'. The judge does not disagree. Since according to A.R.K.P, rendering 'Yeh Kya Korua' as anything like 'What's happenned' is a sure sign of the fact that the person found doing so is in cahoots with terrorists, and must be a paid agent of JKLF, we have to arrive at the conclusion that not only Sanjay Kak and Sampath Prakash, but also the Special Prosecutor Gopal Subramaniam who tried so hard to get Geelani to hang, as well as the honorable justices Nandrajog, Mehra and Dhingra, must be, according to this theory, in league with terrorism and the paid mercenaries of JKLF or some other 'tanzeem'. If A.R.K.P had the patience to go through the trial proceedings they would know that shortly after the hearing in which the whole telephone intercept argument is explored, the court calls upon Defence Witness #5, Aarifa Geelani, SAR Geelani's wife, who tells the court that the telephone conversation conains delicate and discreet references made between the brothers ('hota hai', 'yeh kya korua') to the fact that Geelani and his wife were at that time quarrelling about when they should be visiting Kashmir. That Aarifa's mother in law, Geelani's mother, had asked her son, Feizal, Geelani's brother, to enquire about why Aarifa was not coming up to Kashmir to visit them as was planned and to ask if everything was all right at home in Delhi, and so on. Of course, A.R.K.P don't do boring things like detailed reading of court transcripts, because they would then know that Aarifa's testimony passes without adverse comment in the court room. Doing that requires more than punching messages and scoring points on Blackberries, and then giving each other virtual congratulary back-slaps. it requires slow, patient reading. It requires hard work at the careful knitting together of an argument before even daring to make the hint of an accusation. But A.R.K.P wouldn't waste their time doing that, would they, becasue that would inhibit their capacity to post rapid fire slander. They would much rather spend their time making random links to newspaper reports and articles that they haven't read or digested, and then, on the basis of these links, scream 'murder' on our list. It is so much more exciting to deceive yourself and the world, acquiring in the process a momentary flash of internet fame, than it is to actually undertake a patient reading of a judicial record. Things actually get a lot more complicated for A.R.K.P if we realize that the real controversy in the testimony as it unfolds through the depositions of defence and prosecution witnesses is not about the meaning of 'Yeh Kya Korua' at all (about which there is no real debate in the court room) but about whether or not an expression rendered as "yeh che zaroori" in the police transcript of the recording is actually audible or not in the tape. The edifice of the police and the prosecution's case is actually entirely built on the purported presence of the words "yeh che zaroori" immediately following the exchange between the two brothers that are rendered as "yeh kya korua"..."dilli ha", ..."dilli kya korua" The police, in its deposition maintained that the words "yeh che zaroori" translated in the charge sheet as "yeh kabhi kabhi zaroori hota hai" or, "this becomes necessary at times"( accompanied by laughter) is indicative of the fact that Geelani was somehow justifying the attack on the parliament. Even if we accept, theoretically, that "Yeh kya korua" refers to a concrete occurence, that is the attack on the parliament, we have no way of knowing what Geelani thinks about that occurence unless we have in hand something like "yeh che zaroori". We are not, in other words in a position to form a reliable theory of mind vis a vis Geelani and his response to the attack on the parliament. We are not in a position where we can know anything about guilt, innocence or complicity unless we know what Geelani's explicitly expressed opinion on the occurence. This is possible only if we can pull out an expression like "yeh che zaroori" from our bag of tricks. The problem is, no one, till date, neither prosecutor, nor defence, nor judge, nor expert technical witness brought in by the prosecution, has ever been able to hear anything remotely like the words "yeh che zaroori" in the recording. This is what the High Court commented found necessary to say in paragraph 346 of its ruling while discussing whether or not it heard the words "yeh che zaroori". "During the hearing of the appeal, we had called for the tape from Malkhana and in the presence of the parties played the same. Indeed the voice was so inaudible that we could not make head or tail of the conversation. We tried our best to pick up the phonetical sounds where there was a dispute as to what words were used, but were unable to do so. Testimony of Prosecution Witness # 48 reveals that he could not analyse the talk as it was highly inaudible. Prosecution Witness # 48 is a phonetic expert. If he could not comprehend the conversation in a clearly audible tone, the probability of ordinary layman picking up the phonetic sounds differently cannot be ruled out. The prosecution witness, PW #71, Rashid, who prepared a transcript of the tape is fifth class pass and it was not his profession to prepare transcript of taped conversation. The possibility of his being in error cannot be ruled out. Benefit of doubt must go to the defence." 6. Signal and Noise And the reason why they have not been able to hear the recording is the fact that the sounds that make up those words are simply not there. What we have instead is digital noise, a dropped signal, auditory degradation - something quite common in recordings of cellular phone taps, which always suffer in audio recording quality in comparison to the signal level of the actual conversation. We might recall at this time that throughout the POTA trial court proceedings, which preceded the High Court trial, the police and the prosecution did not find it necessary to produce the actual audio-recording as evidence, even though they declared from every media roof top, that they had conclusive evidence about Geelani's complicity in the contents of that very recording. They produced instead a transcript of a translation, done after the arrest, days after the recording, by a person, who happenned to be a Kashmiri fruit vendor whose working knowledge of Hindi or English was demonstrably not adequate to the task of translation. Geelani has insisted in every statement made by him, at every stage of the trial, that the words "yeh che zaroori" represented an interpolation in the transcript of the recording. But it took the inability of anyone to hear the words in the judges chamber during the trial in the high court for it to be admitted that the three crucial words, were in fact, simply not said. It is not surprising therefore that the public prosecutor was candid in saying that he 'did not want to put all his eggs in the intercept basket'. But clearly, the A.R.K.P division of forensic linguistics and spin doctoring possess a far higher level of legal acumen than the special prosecutor who tried so hard to get Geelani the death penalty. They want to put their eggs, their chicken, the vegetable matter between their ears and all their rhetorical heavy spices into the basket of the telephone intercept - a piece of evidence that everyone acknowledges as being degraded by confabulation. They are not content at doing just that, they are also able to shift the weight of evidence from a statement whose existence is found to be wanting to a statement whose interpretation actually provokes no controversy. And so, the translation, interpretation or rendition of 'Yeh Kya Korua' which establish nothing either way, become, in their eyes, (or should I say ears) more important than the lynchpin of the prosecution's argument. A.R.K.P deserve to be recognized not just as champions in wasting this lists time and energy in the pursuit of one red herring after another, but also as highly creative, wildly imaginative legal analysts. Their abilities in this regard surpass the best brains of the Special Cell of the Delhi Police, which has provided us with such a shining example of probity and integrity throughout the course of the 13 December trial. It is not Sanjay Kak who has lied and played with the trust of what A.R.K.P call the 'people of India', or of this list. It is A.R.K.P themselves who occupy that stellar role, and it is not necessary for us to ask whether they do so out of ignorance, stupidity, or worse, design. What is not disputable is that no one can do it as energetically, and with as much pretentious self righteous humbuggery and maudlin, narcissistic, self flagellatory assumption of the status of the perpetual victim as they can. They lied when they said that their screening was scheduled and then cancelled at Kamala Nehru College, and when that fabrication was exposed, they lied again, this time about something far more serious. Instead of attempting to engage with the task of serious criticism, as was demanded of them by this list, they tried to defame and insult someone's reputation. In doing so, they have only exposed themselves. This list knows now who they are and what their intentions are. Regular readers of the Sarai Reader List will be familiar with the expression "Free speech needs fearless listening." Well, they have spoken freely, we have listened fearlessly, and I think that many of us have not been intimidated by the high volume at which they have dished out their bile. In the end, they have suffered, because by speaking too loudly, too quickly, too often, they have really ruined their own chances of the possibility that we would give them a sympathetic hearing. I have no doubt that the Kashmiri Pandit people have suffered enormously in the last twenty years. I have absolutely no qualms in saying that those who visited violence upon them as well as those who manipulated their fears and anxieties to their own ends are all guilty of having done things that are terribly wrong. But the cause of justice for Kashmiri Pandit people, which must surely lie in a solution to the issue of Kashmir which is just for all people in Kashmir, is not safe in the hands of a group of motivated and self serving individuals who have absolutely no scruples in the way in which they represent that cause. Their actions indicate that perhaps they could be counted as amongst the worst enemies that the displaced Kashmiri Pandit population have, or can have. They may not have murdered people, but they have certainly attempted to assasinate time and again the possibility of a peaceful settlement of the Kashmir question. 7. Epilogue: Stray Thoughts on Audio Recording and Translation I spent this evening talking separately to two friends, very different people, before sitting through the night to write this posting. One was a sound recordist and engineer with a special interest in the auditory qualities of mobile phone devices, an inventive, cheerful and curious person who is passionate about the properties of of sound and the craft of sound recording. The second was a person who teaches a foreign language in Delhi university, someone whom I have known for the last six years, and whom I have had several regular but occasional conversations that I always find personally rewarding. I asked the first person whether a set of significant sounds, say three words, could be retrieved from the auditory black hole of digital noise in a recording of a mobile phone conversation. She said "no, a digital auditory black hole is a digital auditory black hole. Once a signal passes below the threshold of audibility and recognition due to the interference of noise, it cannot be retrieved by 'cleaning up' the recording". In other words, there are next to no chances of the recovery of words that might or might not have been said from under the patina of digital noise in a recording. Ambient noise can be cleaned, provided there is a sufficient sample of ambient noise available for a detailed acoustic analysis to be done, which in turn would help in eliminating the interfering frequencies, and so 'recover' the lost sound. But a mobile phone conversation is a digital signal, and a phone intercept of a mobile phone conversation is a degraded digital signal, and with a less than quality signal to noise ratio, in other words, more noise, less signal. These degradations are usually irreparable. For all practical purposes, we might as well assume that whatever may be underneath the corroded patch of signal, is non existent. The words 'yeh che zaroori' will never be found, even if we look for them. Unfortunately, words let loose in spite, or in anger, on an electronic list, rarely if ever go into a digital black hole. They stay orbiting the ether for a long time, bouncing across continents in forwards, replies and rejoinders. Everything A.R.K.P said on this list is going to stay, and it is their problem as to how they will live with the endless google searches that will turn up their fabrications, time and time again. Archived lists have cruel and unforgiving memories, I hope that before the next time anyone hits 'send' on a mail written in undue haste, they remember this simple fact. After I met the sound engineer friend, who is by nature shy and reticent, and wishes to remain nameless, I went to another rendezvous,this time with the language teacher. We talked of many things, and one of the things we talked about, was the fact that while the narration of an offence or a misdemeanour always translates easily in a courtroom, and then in society at large, as guilt, it remains very difficult to translate innocence. When someone does something wrong, or is seen as doing something wrong, you can always find words to give form to what they have done, or to what you think they have done. On the other hand, when someone has done nothing, it becomes very difficult to find words to give substance to this absence of an action. How can you sculpt a form and a shape out of the negation of a form or a shape? That is why innocence is difficult to translate in any language. That is why it is so easy for us to point fingers at others. Words of accusation fall off the tip of our tongues, or our fingers, like acid rain. We spoke in a comfortable mix of Hindustani and English, switching from one language to another as if they were playmates. I gave examples about how one might say 'E ki kando' in Bengali, he talked about the occasions when one might say 'Yeh ki Korua' in Kashmiri. We had several cups of coffee. We talked about the difficulty of translating silences in any language. We parted promising to lend each other books that we had talked about in the course of the conversation. This friend speaks Kashmiri at home, teaches Arabic in the university, and has had to think, due to a continuing set of circumstances, long and hard, harder than anyone I know, about truth, translation, guilt and innocence. His name is Syed Abdul Rahman Geelani. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 31 13:43:02 2007 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] No mails from SARAI Message-ID: <761149.76605.qm@web57215.mail.re3.yahoo.com> No mails received from SARAI. Are these month end blues? Kshmendra Kaul --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From priya at sarai.net Thu Aug 30 10:12:03 2007 From: priya at sarai.net (Priya) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:12:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Nanocity outside Chandigarh? - from Gautam bhan Message-ID: <46D64A9B.2080507@sarai.net> Dear All, This is my first posting on the list but I wanted to write in and see what you all know about Nanocity, a proposed 11,000 "metropolis" being built 20km or so outside Chandigarh by Sabeer Bhatia, the Hotmail millionairre. I'm a student at UC berkeley here in the US in the urban planning program, and people here are involved in the design of this city, which seems to have land clearance from the governent and is claiming to be ready by 2012 at the cost of over $1bn. Now, in India and the Indian press, I haven't seen much or any public dialogue about this - -for a project of this magnitude it strikes me as odd because it seems to be going much beyond the IT park/SEZ/Township models that we're used to, and I'm wondering why there is such silence about it. there must be issues of diplacement of people and land use involved, without even talking about what it means for a private millionairre to decide to build a "21st century metropolis." can anyone enlighten? If everyone else is as much out of the loop as I have been, I think its time we start taking Mr Bhatia's plan seriously and trying to understand what's apparently going on in our backyard. best, Gautam From zainab at mail.xtdnet.nl Thu Aug 30 01:55:45 2007 From: zainab at mail.xtdnet.nl (zainab) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:25:45 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] National Security In-Reply-To: <952460.49536.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <952460.49536.qm@web57213.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan, Kshmendra, Aditya and Rashneek, I am a Ph.D. student based in Bangalore. I do not have TV at my home. Last few days, I have been reading the reader-list with much more vigor than I have done in the last 5 years since I first subscribed to this list. Boys, I want to thank all of you sincerely for adding so much entertainment to my otherwise dull Ph.D., intellectual life. For all those who say that you are bores or should be ignored, I feel sorry for them and they need to be ignored. I certainly cannot afford to ignore all of you. God bless all of you and keep the good work coming/going! In anticipation, Zainab On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > > I am sure that your tongue-in-cheek cheek style has given you > satisfaction. Spiced with sarcasm which is a great device to use. (I will > myself be employing it in analysing the Shaina Anand transcript of your > conversation) > > "Jashn-e-Azadi" is not a title SK invented. It might surprise you but it > has been used in the past a whole lot of times. Your sarcasm > notwithstanding, you know that. It's been used to celebrate India's > Independence. Not like Sanjay Kak's usage to support those who want to > excise India, carve it up, destroy it. Or so it turned out to be. > > Am I overdramatising it? Sanjay you need to objectively take stock of > the support your film has received. Map out the profiles of those people > and evaluate what some of them stand for. SK you have provided them with > ammunition, they celebrate your film. You are a honest hero in their eyes. > A supporter for break-up of India. > > Do you think they care that for you it was a journey of a particular > kind and that you would never claim that your film represents the totality > and all dimensions of the Kashmir issue? They will and have used you to > suit their narrow purposes. You Sanjay Kak are "complicit" as you yourself > admitted elsewhere. > > Those "Azadi" or "Hurriyat" personalities are not the only ones, but > also those who I call the "la la landers", ostensibly loyal Indias but for > whom it is fashionable to attack India or support those who attack India, > whether by word or action or through a Sanjay Kak film. > > Sanjay, look around, in fact look at the communication in SARAI. For the > moment forget those who have been attacking you, and pay attention to those > who have spoken in support of you. Evaluate their rationality and arguments > or plain dismissiveness/ridicule of reasoned argument. You will see some > worms coming out of the woodwork waving the flag of "Jashn-e-Azadi". As an > example look at the recent postings of M Yousuf. > > SK your "translator" role is a sadder aspect of you. It brings into > question your personal morality and integrity. > > You did not go to Kashmir till 2003 and yet maintained enough > proficiency in Kashmiri to act as a "translator" seems a bit incredulous. > If you do not have the language skills in Kashmiri required of a > "translator" (especially for critical testimony in a Legal case) then you > are downright dishonest. It would impinge on credibility of your > character. A few hours of conversation with you in Kashmiri would make it > clear either way. > > SK, you come out worse if you do have enough competence in Kashmiri to > act as a "translator". > > A translation of "Ye kyah Korvu?" can be only be "What is this you > people have done" or singular in a respectful tone "What is this that you > have done". There is no other translation possible. Need I add more about > how SK reportedly translated it and the possible implications both on the > testimony and SK's honesty and motives? > > That your "translation" was thrown out is hardly the issue, nor that > Geelani received the "death sentence". > > Incidentally, I personally am totally and vehemently against the "death > sentence" in it's cold pronouncement or execution by any Institution for > whatever reason or crime. > > Sanjay, here is what I propose if you are interested. Get in touch with > these KPs who have been hounding you. Offer them a screening of your > "Jash-e-Azadi". Offer to discuss your role as a film-maker. Listen to what > they have to say. Listen to their ventings. > > You might be moved enough to make another film with an alternate > perspective. It might be another journey for you. One where you will not > be depending on some people making available "found footage" > > It requires both moral and artistic courage. > > > Kshmendra Kaul > > > > Sanjay Kak wrote: > > >> Since the Sarai Reader list is fast emerging as the nerve centre for > keeping track of National (and Anti-National) interest, I thought it my > duty > to make some humble offerings: > > On August 15, 2007 Indian Independence Day (what some linguistically > misguided souls refer to as *Jashn-e-Azadi) *the Habitat centre in Delhi > was > once again the venue of something possibly troubling. A musical programme > called – yes, believe it or not – *Jashn-e-Azadi* was held > there. While they > said it was just some patriotic songs and ghazals and so on, this could be > subterfuge. After all there is a film with a similar title doing the > rounds which may be up to some mischief; and then there is this separatist > leader involved in something called *Safar-e-Azadi.* As a good citizen I'm > just sharing this information which others may want to act upon. > > I was also wondering: could my role in translating the Police phone tap on > the Delhi University lecturer SAR Geelani in the Parliament Attack case > also > be considered by the Sarai list a little differently? Though my > translation > from Kashmiri into English was summarily thrown out by the Trial Court on > the grounds that I was an interested party (as a member of the All India > Defence Committee for SAR Geelani), I mean, that court *did* pass a death > sentence on Shree Geelani, did it not? Could my lack of success as a > translator not be seen as a mark of my Patriotism? Just a thought, however > ghoulish... > > With thanks in anticipation > > Sanjay Kak > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! > FareChase. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 14:48:32 2007 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:48:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Will Pakistan Survive-by William Dalrymple Message-ID: <13df7c120708310218j21064869h48088d55b908186e@mail.gmail.com> http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20070830&fname=dalrymple&sid=1&pn=3 -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 16:27:05 2007 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (Taraprakash) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly CancelledScreenings References: <46D2C912.4040301@sarai.net> Message-ID: <00de01c7ebbd$b101a5d0$e1f1bd48@Shabori> "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any individual or body." What kind of clarification it is? The mail should have rather not been sent to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Clarification on the matter of allegedly CancelledScreenings > > Dear All, > > This is just by way of clarification of something that has disturbed > many on this list, because it also involves an attack on the character > and reputation of a person. > > A particular posting, made by Rashneek Kher got RIK screening Cancelled> made on the 25th of August said that > Ashok Pandita's film was cancelled after being confirmed for screening > at Kamala Nehru College, allegedly at the behest of Sanjay Kak. > > On being requested to provide a clarification regarding this matter the > faculty in charge of Wide Angle Film Society and the Principal of Kamala > Nehru College have communicated to me that - > > "The Wide Angle Film Society of Kamala Nehru College was not prevailed > upon by any individual or individuals to schedule or cancel any film. > The college and Wide Angle Society are fully within their rights to show > or cancel any film screening without having to be accountable to any > individual or body." > > This clearly indicates that the charge made on this list against the > person concerned (Sanjay Kak), that he used 'connections' to stop a > screening and arrange one of his own film is unsubstantiated and > baseless. I knew this for a fact as early as Friday, but wanted to wait > until I have a formalcommunication with the relevant people concerned in > Kamala Nehru College before making any statements in this regard. > > I think communications of this nature are serious attacks on the dignity > of this list and its members, and I hope that everyone will join me in > insisting that list members desist from such all such allegations and > attacks, in the interests of a healthy climate of freedom of expression > that we all enjoy on this list. > > regards, > > Shuddha > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Aug 31 20:02:03 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:02:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Translation, Guilt, Innocence and Two Cups of Coffee In-Reply-To: <46D76491.9060906@sarai.net> References: <46D76491.9060906@sarai.net> Message-ID: <46D82663.2050708@sarai.net> ear all, On re-reading my post just after having hit send, I realized that there were a few irritating proofing errors that I should have dealt with. My apologies for the same. Attribute it, if you must to the need for caffeine and the hole in my brain where a third, maybe a fourth cup of coffee should have done its job. So here are the errors, at least the ones I can find, with corrections. 1. The first error is in the second paragraph. The fragment of the sentence that reads '.. during the POTA trial court proceedings in the '13 December Case' should read instead - during the appellate proceedings in the High Court in the '13 December Case', This error is repeated once later, it occurred because the speed of typing, especially in the early ante meridiem hours, generally lags behind the speed of thought, and something that should have been at the end of the sentence, or is a qualifier of something else, creeps into the beginning of the sentence. Just thought I would clarify this, lest it lead to any lethal and unforeseen error of translation. :) 2. The second anomaly, which may or may not be an error is my usage of the two words 'ungrammatical English'. I think I meant to write 'grammatical English', but judgement on this is reserved, because I often find myself acting as a traitor and a double agent straddling the line of control over the disputed territory of the split infinitive. 3. The third error is an incomplete web citation for Basharat Peer's article on reporting from Srinagar in Sarai Reader 04: Crisis/Media - the complete citation is - http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media 4. The fourth error is in the sentence in section 5 - 'Was this Necessary'. The sentence is "This is what the High Court commented found necessary to say in paragraph 346 of its ruling while discussing whether or not it heard the words "yeh che zaroori". The word 'commented' is redundant here. I am sure there are other errors lurking around in this forest of words, my apologies if you stumble upon them. I hope we can go back to the ordinary, everyday life of the list soon, a lot of interesting postings from Sarai Independent Fellows are standing neglected because of the tornadoes that have hit the list of late, but I am sure we will find ways of getting back to an even keel soon. I look forward to lots of different writing on lots of different issues from many correspondents. regards Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear All, > > > It is always interesting and worthwhile to participate in a discussion > on questions of the interpretation and translation on language, and > about how our notions of truth are stabilized or destabilized by the > apparatus of recording. We learn a lot, especially when the issues at > stake are as vital and significant as innocence and guilt. This is > especially true when at the heart of the discussion lies an alleged > offence which has resulted in the ultimate punishment of the death > penalty being awarded, twice, and then rescinded, on grounds of lack of > evidence. This task requires us to look at language, law, evidence, > theories of mind, interpretative agency, reportage and a host of other > things. This is precisely the kind of stuff that the Reader List was set > up to do. So thanks in advance to all those, especially Aditya Raj Kaul, > Rashneek Kher, Kshemendra Kaul , Pawan Durani and others who have > provoked this posting/thread. > > 1. Apologists and Apologies > > As you must have figured out by now, I am referring to the spate of > postings that we have all recently read, that have, in one way or > another, raised the question of Sanjay Kak's purported 'mistranslation' > of the intercepted recording of a telephonic conversation between SAR > Geelani and his brother Faizal immediately after 13 December 2001, > during the POTA trial court proceedings in the '13 December Case', while > appearing as a defence witness (Defence Witness #2, if I am not > mistaken) for SAR Geelani. > > These postings have appeared because - > > a) having failed to garner sympathy for the position that > 'Jashn-e-Azadi' is a film that should not be available for uninterrupted > and undisturbed screenings, or that it should be banned, or that it > should be prevented by the police from being seen; > > and > > b)having witnessed the demolition on this list of the allegation that > the purportedly Roots in Kashmir (RIK) initiated screening of 'And the > World Remained Silent' in Kamala Nehru College was cancelled at the > behest of those who wanted a screening of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' (following > clarifications from Kamala Nehru College and Sanjay Mattoo, the person > who tried to organize the screening of 'Jashn-e-Azadi' in the first > place, as to the exact chronology of events) > > - those involved in the campaign to stop the film from being watched > (RIK activists and their sympathizers) were left with no other > alternative but to train their guns on the filmmaker, on the members of > this list, and to begin making yet another series of allegations about > the filmmakers motives and antecedents. Having failed in their > vilification of the message, they have now turned on the messenger. They > elected to follow rule 38, 'leave the subject altogether, and turn your > attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character' > - from that wonderful list of rules of how to win an argument on the > cheap, attributed to Scopenhauer in Faiz Ullah's post 'to win and > argument...' made on the 20th of August on the Sarai Reader List. > > Unfortunately for them, this strategy, though momentarily disorienting, > (because we find it difficult to imagine that people would stoop so low > as to do such things, and when they do, find ourselves momentarily > stunned) is bound to fail, in fact it has failed already, for reasons > that I hope to show in some detail in this set of postings. > > This will involve some very close reading of newspaper reports, articles > and court proceedings, and some technical details, and will be a lengthy > post, and may be tedious for some, because, in keeping with the ethical > standards that this list commits itself to, and that a majority of its > readers expect, I cannot afford the luxury of making unsubstantiated or > unsubstantiatable statements. I have to quote sources, contextualize and > build an argument based on the actual content of publicly available > documents as opposed to conjecture, prejudice and hearsay. I find myself > compelled to do this not because I am personally interested in having > those who make these allegations exposed for what they are, but because > this list is a public record of sorts, and I do have an interest in > ensuring that we as list members still retain the capacity to correct > the grossest of distortions that suddenly erupt amongst us. So apologies > in advance for the length of this posting. > > I really do apologize for the length of my recent postings but I am > hoping that you all will understand that when dealing with a > multi-headed hydra as I find myself having to, I too am forced to become > a snake with a never ending tail, : ) In other words, even a single > rejoinder has to be long and comprehensive enough to deal with the venom > injected by (apparently) many different heads. I need to deploy some > heavy artillery to deal with so much (badly aimed) sniper fire. > > Apologies also, for attempting to write this in coherent, > straightforward and ungrammatical english, so that at least my mirror, > and all those given to ordinary conversation on this list can understand > what I am writing. Enough apologies, enough preliminaries. Lets get down > to business. > > 2. Mistranslating a Mistrial > > As someone who happens to have followed the trial that is being referred > to ('The Parliament Attack/13 December' Case) quite closely over the > last five years, as regular readers on this list will no doubt recall, > I think that I can lay a claim to more than a casual interest in the > matter. > > The A.R.K.P interpretation (thanks, Yousuf for a handy nomenklatural > abbreviation for this 'league of extraordinary gentlemen' of Aditya, > Rashneek, Kshemendra and Pawan, or should I say 'Amalgamated Recidivist > Kooks & Poseurs') of a fragment of the trial proceedings, makes for > interesting reading. But a word of caution, we would do well to dwell a > little on the relationship between what was recorded, what was said in > court, what was reported, and how it is now being interpreted by the > 'forensic linguistics' division of A.R.K.P, before we jump to any > conclusions, either about Sanjay Kak's purported dissimulation, or about > A.R.K.P's motives in making these seemingly infinitely expanding series > of allegations. I get a liitle concerned, perhaps even a little > suspicious when I see allegations begetting allegations with such > velocity aand with such with remarkable, and self-congratulatory, > promiscuity. > > Let me first take the newspaper reports and articles that were quoted > recently on an A.R.K.P blog post, titled 'A Lie Which Cheated the > Courts' in a blog titled 'The Kashmir' and which Pawan Durani, and then > Aditya Raj Kaul refer to, more than once - in their postings. > http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/a-lie-which-cheated-the-courts/ > > The blog entry (and accompanying comments) basically say that - Sanjay > Kak (and Sampath Prakash) 'mistranslated' the phrase that they render as > 'Yeh Kya Korua' which occured in the conversation between SAR Geelani > and his brother. The court, they say, was misled by their > 'mistranslation' and hence, SAR Geelani was acquitted. > > Nested within this blog entry are four hyperlinks, two of which are > relevant to the question at hand - > > 1. A report in the Hindu, Friday, May 02, 2003 ' Parliament attack case: > HC questions prosecution version of arrests' > http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/02/stories/2003050202871300.htm > > and > > 2. Basharat Peer's essay in the Guardian - 'Victims of December 13', > July 5, 2003 > http://www.guardian.co.uk/kashmir/Story/0,2763,990901,00.html > > (It is in the contents of Basharat Peer's essay that the A.R.K.P theory > of 'mistranslation' finds its ammunition. Mind you, I am saying > contents, not argument, because Basharat's argument runs entirely > counter to the A.R.K.P version of the question of SAR Geelani's guilt or > innocence, but that is not immediately important. Many among you will > remember Basharat Peer, he was a Sarai Independent Research Fellow, and > his excellent essay on reporting from Srinagar is available on Sarai > Reader 04: Crisis Media at ) > > I will analyse each of these stories in turn, examine how they are being > read in the blog under discussion, look at some additional material, and > then, I will turn to the publicly available court records of the case, > to try and see if there is any sense in what A.R.K.P are saying. > > Let's get a few facts right first. The depositions made by Sanjay Kak > and Sampath Prakash did not get SAR Geelani his acquittal. These > depositions were made at the appelate proceedings at the High Court, and > the High Court confirmed the sentence of death awarded to Geelani by the > trial court. Sanjay Kak has pointed this out himself, in his posting on > this list - the one in which he reprimands me for spoiling the party we > are all having in watching the A.R.K.P hydra expose itself. The High > Court confirmed the death sentence, even though it found the > prosecution's arguments with regard to this particular phone intercept > severely wanting (see below), while simultaneously dismissing the value > of Sanjay Kak and Sampath Prakash's testimonies, not on the grounds of > inadequate or faulty translation, but on the ground that they, being > members of the All India Defence Committee for SAR Geelani, were not > disinterested witnesses.. SAR Geelani's acquittal at the Supreme Court > too was not based on the testimonial contributions of Sanjay Kak or > Sampath Prakash, but on the failure of the prosecution (including in the > instance of the phone intercept) to show that they in fact had any > concrete evidence against him. Perhaps A.R.K.P are unaware of the fact > that the Indian legal system (with the aberrant exception of the now > repealed POTA) works with the assumption that it is guilt that needs to > be proved, not innocence. > > Let us, for the sake of argument, assume that A.R.K.P now realize their > factual error in stating that it was Sanjay Kak's testimony that 'freed' > Geelani, and focus next on intention rather than on consequences. Not in > order to win or lose a legal wager, but in order to retain their > terribly difficult and hard won position on the slippery slope of their > self-assumed moral high ground. Then they would argue that it hardly > matters whether or not Geelani was acquitted on the basis of these > statements, what matters is that an attempt was made to mislead the > court, and by extension, the people of India. This attempt (in their > reading of reality) shows that Sanjay Kak, (and by association, those > who stand by him) are indulging in dissimulation. > > Now this would be true if, > > a) the crux of SAR Geelani's purported guilt of innocence could > logically be demonstrated to lie in the indisputable meaning of the > words 'Yeh Kya Korua'. > > and, > > b)if the police/prosecution/A.R.K.P version/translation of the > conversation were shown to be perfectly in concordance with and > consistent with the context in which the conversation (of which, > remember, the intercept is an imperfect recording) took place. > > Remember this, because this is going to be crucial when we look at the > actual court record of how this was looked at in the Supreme Court, > where the matter was finally decided on. > > But for now, let us stick first to the question of the quality of the > telephone intercept as evidence, and secondly to the interpretations > given to the words, 'Yeh Kya Korua' > > This is what the report on the Hindu (which is a report on the appelate > trial proceedings in the High Court, not on the POTA Trial Court) that > the 'Lies that Cheated the Courts' posting links to, has to say on the > first of these two questions (the evidentiary quality of the intercept). > This report, which A.R.K.P invoke but never detail, merits quotation at > length, in fact, in its entirety. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Parliament attack case: HC questions prosecution version of arrests > The Hindu, Friday, May 02, 2003 > http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/02/stories/2003050202871300.htm > > By Our Special Correspondent > > [ NEW DELHI MAY 1. The two-judge bench of the Delhi High court, hearing > appeals in the Parliament attack case, today closely questioned the > Prosecution on its version of the arrests made in the case and the > contradictions that it throws up. > > The Special Prosecutor, Gopal Subramanium, had told the court, quoting > Delhi police's Investigating Officer, Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma, that > the telephones of S.A.R. Geelani and Afsan Guru/Navjot Sandhu, had been > tapped on December 13. Calls recorded on December 14 — between Geelani > and his brother at 12.12 p.m. and between Afsan and her husband at 8 > p.m. — pointed to their connection with the attack and suggested that > Shaukat Hussain and one other person were in Srinagar. > > Geelani's house was put under surveillance on December 13 and December > 14. He was arrested at around 10 a.m. on December 15 and Afsan Guru at > 10.45 a.m. Information received from Afsan Guru about the registration > number of the truck in which her husband was travelling was sent to > Srinagar. On the basis of this, the truck was located at 8 a.m. on > December 15 and Shaukat Hussain and Mohammed Afzal were arrested by > 11.45 a.m. > > The Srinagar police officer, who made the arrests, stated in evidence > that he received information about the truck's registration number at > 5.30 a.m. on December 15. > > The defence has maintained that Geelani was arrested on December 14 at > around 1 p.m. and Afsan between 6 and 6.30 p.m. > > Justice Usha Mehra asked Mr. Subramanium to explain the discrepancy in > the evidence of the Delhi police (that the arrests were made after 10 > a.m. on December 15 and information sent to Srinagar) and of the > Srinagar police (that it acted on information received at 5.30 a.m.). > > ``If you go only by the clock, then the prosecution is not telling the > truth'', Mr Subramanium said. The question related to the credibility of > the witnesses. ``Your Lordships would have to be assisted to see which > witness is believable''. > > Justice Mehra suggested that ``a lesser explanation'', such as the one > offered by the defence that Geelani and Afsan were arrested on December > 14, better suited even the prosecutions version of the arrests. She told > Mr. Subramanium that if the court were to believe his witness, Mohan > Chand Sharma, it would have to disbelieve the story of the arrests in > Kashmir. > > Justice Mehra also pointed to other gaps in the Prosecutions story. > > Why did the police, which apparently acted with speed to ascertain phone > details, intercept calls and mount surveillance on Geelani on December > 13, not go to the evening college where he taught, even if only to get > his description to help in his arrest? Given that the identity cards on > the dead militants suggested a Kashmiri connection, why had the police, > when intercepting calls, not considered that these might be in Kashmiri > and engage a Kashmiri interpreter? How did the investigating officer who > did not know Kashmiri and had admitted that the translation of the call > involving Geelani was done after it was recorded, decide that it was the > ``relevant'' one ? ] > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Fortunately, unlike their lordships, we do not need much 'assistance' to > see whether or not the A.R.K.P cohort, in their new found role as > witness, prosecutor, judge and executioner combined are indeed > 'credible'. (and I am glad that Rashneek, at least has expressed a > reluctance to play the role of the hangman because he says that he is, > like me, against the death penalty, I am happy that there are some > things on which at least Rashneek and I can genuinely find agreement) > > Let us see why I think we don't need much assistance. > > 3. Figures of Speech > > The chronology spelt out by the above quoted report, which 'Lies that > Cheated the Courts' unhesitatingly invokes, is very clear. When Geelani > was arrested, (according to the prosecution) on the morning of December > 15, no one in the Delhi Police, least of all Inspector Mohan Chand > Sharma, knew what the contents of this infamous phone call was. Even > though it is on this that the prosecution built so much of their > argument. It had simply not yet been 'translated' for the police .In > other words, if the meaning of 'Yeh Kya Korua' in this conversation was > unambiguously - 'What did you all do' - and if it is true that this > phrase referred to the attack on the Parliament - a fact on which hinged > the suspicion that Geelani was involved in the December 13 incident, > then, the police, while arresting him, had no clue as yet that this was > indeed the case. They were arresting him for saying something that they > had not yet known at that time that he had said. They had no other > grounds for arresting him. His cell phone number was found on the phones > recovered from the body of some dead men. That was all. > > [Aside: Consider this - it is possible that in some hours, I might be > able to get Aditya Raj Kaul's cell phone number from somewhere, and feed > it in the directory of my cell phone, or that in some hours, someone > will key in Aditya's number into my cell phone. It is also possible that > I am in fact a terrorist who is, in a few days,weeks, months, hours, who > knows when - about to lead a suicide attack on a Cafe Coffee Day outlet > because I really do not like the way they brew their coffee. It is > possible, indeed more or less sure that I will die in this attempt. It > is possible that my cell phone will then yield Aditya Raj Kaul's mobile > number, (because I have either been dying to talk to him all along, or > because someone has keyed in this number and put that phone on my dead > body) and that then, Aditya Raj Kaul (who, it is true, I have been in > regular touch with as a fellow subscriber on the Reader List, something > my laptop will surely yield) will then be arrested and held for five > years in solitary confinement, and be sentenced twice to death on the > grounds that he was the terrorist mastermind of the 'All India and J&K > Coffee Liberation Squad', of which I was a mere zombie underling, sent > out to court death for the sake of better aroma for us all You get my > drift: End of Aside] > > The depositions of the investigating officer in the case at the trial > court are to the effect that there were other conversations, other > intercepts. The depositions of the prosecution witness who translated > the intercept, the fruit vendor Rashid Ali, and the man who actually did > the interception both indicate that there was a great deal more that was > said, and that again - there were other conversations. But the > investigating officers chose to zero in on Geelani on the basis of these > two minutes and sixteen seconds alone of a recording where the signal > drops not once, but twice, without taking into account the intercepts of > the other calls. But the fact remains that none of these intercepts were > 'translated' or available in any form for the police to understand when > the arrests were made. So how, then, did the police know which 'segment' > of which recording of which intercept was relevant to their theory that > Geelani was guilty, that he was in fact the mastermind? > > Secondly, the police officer concerned, was clearly not speaking the > truth about the timing of the arrests, because if we are to believe his > chronology of when Geelani and Afshan were arrested in Delhi, we have to > disbelieve the actual time of arrest of Shaukat Hussain and Muhammad > Afzal in Srinagar. If the Delhi police is truthful (Geelani suspect and > arrest justified) then the Srinagar police is lying (thus Afzal > innocent). Yet Afzal and Shaukat are the only key suspecst who have > actually been found guilty. And if the Delhi police is lying (about the > timing of Geelani and Afshan's arrest (because they get to Afshan only > through Geelani) then the entire story falls apart. This is why, the > phone intercept, is a basically a flawed piece of evidence. If we take > it very seriously, then everything else falls apart in the case. > > Further, if we take the contents of the conversation to be a tacit > admission of complicity, then something even more interesting occurs. If > 'Yeh kya korua' can only mean 'what did you/you all do in Delhi' which > in turn can only mean 'what did you/you all do, as in try to attack the > Parliament in Delhi' then, the person who asks the question, that is > Feizal, is clearly aware of what is going on. He would not be in a > position to make a reference to an event that had just unfolded if he > had not been aware of its imminent unfolding in advance. In other words, > in order for Feizal to have asked a question which can only be read as a > reference to the attack on Parliament, Feizal needs to have been in on > the conspiracy. And yet, Feizal, who was investigated and questioned at > length by the police has never been charged. There is no attempt to make > a case against him. If Geelani is guilty because he 'knew', (and that > is all we can surmise if we accept this postion, that he 'knew' because > there is nothing else that can be said with regard to the man) then, > according to the argument of the defeated prosecution case and the > renascent forensic expertise of A.R.K.P, so must Feizal be guilty. Yet, > no one has ever been able to pin anything on him. And yet the 'needle of > suspicion' continues to quiver in the direction of SAR Geelani, at least > in the arguments that A.R.K.P are making. > > 4. 'What Happened' > > Still, let us for form's sake, continue to try and take their position > seriously. Let us actually go into the language of what is being said, > and the context in which the conversation takes place. > > Basharat Peer's excellent article in the Guardian, the second and more > apparently 'damning' revelation dredged up by the diligent A.R.K.P > blog-soldiers actually says the following - > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Giving evidence in court, Kak said, "The Kashmiri equivalent of 'What's > happened?' is 'Yeh Kya Korua'. It is a generic term used for a range of > ordinary circumstances, such as when a child spills a glass of milk or > when there is snowfall or a marital dispute." The younger brother of the > accused teacher had called simply to get a syllabus and a prospectus. He > translated that portion of the call as: Receiver (accused teacher): > "Tell me what you want?" Caller (his brother): "Syllabus and > prospectus." (from Basharat Peer's article, cited and linked above) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Remember, Kak does not say that 'What's happened' is a *translation* of > 'Yeh Kya Korua'. He says it is an *equivalent*. The word equivalent > connotes a similarity of valence or value, not an identity. Equivalent > is not identical. Equivalent means 'something approximating to another > thing' not 'something identical with another thing'. But Kak does not > stop here. He locates the phrase rendered as 'Yeh Kya Korua' in the > context of how people might talk about events, idiomatically - as 'a > generic term used for a range of ordinary circumstances'. > > Just as in Bengali, we might say 'E ki kando' (what's been done/'Oh, > what happenned') or 'E ki korlen' ('what did you do') to express - > surprise, delight, pain, pleasure, irritation, wonder, astonishment and > a whole gamut of expressions. Idiomatic language often contains > expressions that might have a different import from their 'literal' > meaning, and that may or may not refer to personalized interactions, but > could even extend to general comments on nature and the cosmos, as a way > of 'greasing' the levers of conversation. Such that a Bengali like me > could say, very easily, to another Bengali 'e ki korlen' while looking > up at the thundering sky, in a difficult to translate idiomatic move > that includes in its ambit, not just the other person, but also the sky > god Indra as well . Sampat Prakash's testimony in the trial court also > includes several examples of the diversity of ways in which the phrase, > "Yeh Kya Korua' might be deployed in ordinary conversation between two > Kashmiris who were on familiar but respectful terms with one another. > > But I digress, it is not references to natural phenomena that we are > discussing here. The question of context becomes all the more important > if we look at the entire contents of the conversation - which is about a > syllabus, a prospectus and a host of other humdrum matters, some of > which are referred to not explicity, but implicitly.. Actually, it is > interesting to read the entire conversation. And you can read it as a > downloadable pdf, in romanized Kashmiri and English, in no place other > than Sarai Reader 04 - Crisis Media (page 158) on the page facing the > beginning of Nandita Haksar's article 'Tried by the Media': The SAR > Geelani Trial. > > The pdf file is available for free download, like the entire contents of > all Sarai Readers at > http://www.sarai.net/publications/readers/04-crisis-media > > Read it carefully, and you will see that on line 15 there is a statement > (after static noise) by Faizal, Geelani's brother which reads, in mixed > Kashmiri and Hindustani - "meh vonmus 'hota hai' " - which translates as > "I said it happens (hota hai)". This is preceded by polite, near phatic > preliminaries of a totally casual nature, and followed by an enquiry > about a prospectus, at the end of which, Faizal asks, "Yeh kya korua". > To which Geelani responds by asking "Kya?Dilli ha" ('What?In Delhi?) and > Faizal asks again, "Dilli Kya Korua". it is here that the words "Kya > Korua" are located. Indeed, they can mean 'what did you do', or 'what > happenned' depending on how you choose to read them, because neither > reading is incorrect or antagonistic, even if one is more exact and the > other is idiomatically apposite. In fact, if you do read them as 'what > did you/you all do' too, there is room for ambiguity, because the query > could be about people in the plural, or as correctly hinted at, even in > part by Rashneek, as a - second person singular respectful, (not plural) > past perfect continuous question. Whichever way you choose to read it. > it must be read in conjunction with the "hota hai" that has preceded it > by second. And once you do that, there is no getting away from the fact > that the query refers to a situation, a general state of being, rather > than to a concrete event. > ' > Even the prosecution has never really challenged the reading of 'Kya > Korua' as a reference broadly suggesting 'What;s happenned'. This is > clear from another report in the Hindu. One which A.R.K.P neglect to > invoke, but I am quite happy to pull out of my archive of news reports > of the 13 December trial. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dec. 13 case: tape of phone intercept played in court > The Hindu, Tuesday, May 06, 2003 > By Our Special Correspondent > > http://www.thehindu.com/2003/05/06/stories/2003050604181200.htm > > NEW DELHI MAY 5. The tape-recorded telephone intercept, which was the > mainstay of the prosecution's case against S.A.R. Geelani during the > trial of the Parliament attack case, was today played for the Delhi High > Court bench hearing the appeals. > > The prosecution has maintained that the tape contains the question, put > to Mr. Geelani by his brother, "what happened in Delhi'' to which he > laughs and replies "yeh che zaroori (this was necessary)''. Having heard > the tape, Justice Nandrajog said that he had not heard "yeh che zaroori''. > > Justice Usha Mehra asked the Special Prosecutor, Gopal Subramanium, if > this evidence was the core of the evidence against Mr. Geelani. "I am > not putting all my eggs in the basket of that intercepted call,'' he > replied. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 5. 'Was This Necessary?' > > Things get a little complicated for the A.R.K.P theory here. This > newspaper report seems to suggest that even the prosecution refers to > the question 'Yeh Kya Korua' as 'What's happenned in Delhi'. The judge > does not disagree. Since according to A.R.K.P, rendering 'Yeh Kya Korua' > as anything like 'What's happenned' is a sure sign of the fact that the > person found doing so is in cahoots with terrorists, and must be a paid > agent of JKLF, we have to arrive at the conclusion that not only Sanjay > Kak and Sampath Prakash, but also the Special Prosecutor Gopal > Subramaniam who tried so hard to get Geelani to hang, as well as the > honorable justices Nandrajog, Mehra and Dhingra, must be, according to > this theory, in league with terrorism and the paid mercenaries of JKLF > or some other 'tanzeem'. > > If A.R.K.P had the patience to go through the trial proceedings they > would know that shortly after the hearing in which the whole telephone > intercept argument is explored, the court calls upon Defence Witness #5, > Aarifa Geelani, SAR Geelani's wife, who tells the court that the > telephone conversation conains delicate and discreet references made > between the brothers ('hota hai', 'yeh kya korua') to the fact that > Geelani and his wife were at that time quarrelling about when they > should be visiting Kashmir. That Aarifa's mother in law, Geelani's > mother, had asked her son, Feizal, Geelani's brother, to enquire about > why Aarifa was not coming up to Kashmir to visit them as was planned and > to ask if everything was all right at home in Delhi, and so on. > > Of course, A.R.K.P don't do boring things like detailed reading of > court transcripts, because they would then know that Aarifa's testimony > passes without adverse comment in the court room. Doing that requires > more than punching messages and scoring points on Blackberries, and then > giving each other virtual congratulary back-slaps. it requires slow, > patient reading. It requires hard work at the careful knitting together > of an argument before even daring to make the hint of an accusation. But > A.R.K.P wouldn't waste their time doing that, would they, becasue that > would inhibit their capacity to post rapid fire slander. They would much > rather spend their time making random links to newspaper reports and > articles that they haven't read or digested, and then, on the basis of > these links, scream 'murder' on our list. It is so much more exciting to > deceive yourself and the world, acquiring in the process a momentary > flash of internet fame, than it is to actually undertake a patient > reading of a judicial record. > > Things actually get a lot more complicated for A.R.K.P if we realize > that the real controversy in the testimony as it unfolds through the > depositions of defence and prosecution witnesses is not about the > meaning of 'Yeh Kya Korua' at all (about which there is no real debate > in the court room) but about whether or not an expression rendered as > "yeh che zaroori" in the police transcript of the recording is actually > audible or not in the tape. > > The edifice of the police and the prosecution's case is actually > entirely built on the purported presence of the words "yeh che zaroori" > immediately following the exchange between the two brothers that are > rendered as "yeh kya korua"..."dilli ha", ..."dilli kya korua" > > The police, in its deposition maintained that the words "yeh che > zaroori" translated in the charge sheet as "yeh kabhi kabhi zaroori hota > hai" or, "this becomes necessary at times"( accompanied by laughter) is > indicative of the fact that Geelani was somehow justifying the attack on > the parliament. > > Even if we accept, theoretically, that "Yeh kya korua" refers to a > concrete occurence, that is the attack on the parliament, we have no way > of knowing what Geelani thinks about that occurence unless we have in > hand something like "yeh che zaroori". We are not, in other words in a > position to form a reliable theory of mind vis a vis Geelani and his > response to the attack on the parliament. We are not in a position where > we can know anything about guilt, innocence or complicity unless we know > what Geelani's explicitly expressed opinion on the occurence. This is > possible only if we can pull out an expression like "yeh che zaroori" > from our bag of tricks. The problem is, no one, till date, neither > prosecutor, nor defence, nor judge, nor expert technical witness brought > in by the prosecution, has ever been able to hear anything remotely like > the words "yeh che zaroori" in the recording. > > This is what the High Court commented found necessary to say in > paragraph 346 of its ruling while discussing whether or not it heard the > words "yeh che zaroori". > > "During the hearing of the appeal, we had called for the tape from > Malkhana and in the presence of the parties played the same. Indeed > the voice was so inaudible that we could not make head or tail of the > conversation. We tried our best to pick up the phonetical sounds where > there was a dispute as to what words were used, but were unable to do > so. Testimony of Prosecution Witness # 48 reveals that he could not > analyse the talk as it was highly inaudible. Prosecution Witness # 48 > is a phonetic expert. If he could not comprehend the conversation in a > clearly audible tone, the probability of ordinary layman picking up the > phonetic sounds differently cannot be ruled out. The prosecution > witness, PW #71, Rashid, who prepared a transcript of the tape is fifth > class pass and it was not his profession to prepare transcript of > taped conversation. The possibility of his being in error cannot be > ruled out. Benefit of doubt must go to the defence." > > 6. Signal and Noise > > And the reason why they have not been able to hear the recording is the > fact that the sounds that make up those words are simply not there. What > we have instead is digital noise, a dropped signal, auditory degradation > - something quite common in recordings of cellular phone taps, which > always suffer in audio recording quality in comparison to the signal > level of the actual conversation. > > We might recall at this time that throughout the POTA trial court > proceedings, which preceded the High Court trial, the police and the > prosecution did not find it necessary to produce the actual > audio-recording as evidence, even though they declared from every media > roof top, that they had conclusive evidence about Geelani's complicity > in the contents of that very recording. They produced instead a > transcript of a translation, done after the arrest, days after the > recording, by a person, who happenned to be a Kashmiri fruit vendor > whose working knowledge of Hindi or English was demonstrably not > adequate to the task of translation. > > Geelani has insisted in every statement made by him, at every stage of > the trial, that the words "yeh che zaroori" represented an interpolation > in the transcript of the recording. But it took the inability of anyone > to hear the words in the judges chamber during the trial in the high > court for it to be admitted that the three crucial words, were in fact, > simply not said. > > It is not surprising therefore that the public prosecutor was candid in > saying that he 'did not want to put all his eggs in the intercept > basket'. But clearly, the A.R.K.P division of forensic linguistics and > spin doctoring possess a far higher level of legal acumen than the > special prosecutor who tried so hard to get Geelani the death penalty. > They want to put their eggs, their chicken, the vegetable matter between > their ears and all their rhetorical heavy spices into the basket of the > telephone intercept - a piece of evidence that everyone acknowledges as > being degraded by confabulation. They are not content at doing just > that, they are also able to shift the weight of evidence from a > statement whose existence is found to be wanting to a statement whose > interpretation actually provokes no controversy. And so, the > translation, interpretation or rendition of 'Yeh Kya Korua' which > establish nothing either way, become, in their eyes, (or should I say > ears) more important than the lynchpin of the prosecution's argument. > > A.R.K.P deserve to be recognized not just as champions in wasting this > lists time and energy in the pursuit of one red herring after another, > but also as highly creative, wildly imaginative legal analysts. Their > abilities in this regard surpass the best brains of the Special Cell of > the Delhi Police, which has provided us with such a shining example of > probity and integrity throughout the course of the 13 December trial. > > It is not Sanjay Kak who has lied and played with the trust of what > A.R.K.P call the 'people of India', or of this list. It is A.R.K.P > themselves who occupy that stellar role, and it is not necessary for us > to ask whether they do so out of ignorance, stupidity, or worse, design. > What is not disputable is that no one can do it as energetically, and > with as much pretentious self righteous humbuggery and maudlin, > narcissistic, self flagellatory assumption of the status of the > perpetual victim as they can. > > They lied when they said that their screening was scheduled and then > cancelled at Kamala Nehru College, and when that fabrication was > exposed, they lied again, this time about something far more serious. > Instead of attempting to engage with the task of serious criticism, as > was demanded of them by this list, they tried to defame and insult > someone's reputation. In doing so, they have only exposed themselves. > This list knows now who they are and what their intentions are. > > Regular readers of the Sarai Reader List will be familiar with the > expression "Free speech needs fearless listening." Well, they have > spoken freely, we have listened fearlessly, and I think that many of us > have not been intimidated by the high volume at which they have dished > out their bile. In the end, they have suffered, because by speaking too > loudly, too quickly, too often, they have really ruined their own > chances of the possibility that we would give them a sympathetic hearing. > > I have no doubt that the Kashmiri Pandit people have suffered enormously > in the last twenty years. I have absolutely no qualms in saying that > those who visited violence upon them as well as those who manipulated > their fears and anxieties to their own ends are all guilty of having > done things that are terribly wrong. But the cause of justice for > Kashmiri Pandit people, which must surely lie in a solution to the issue > of Kashmir which is just for all people in Kashmir, is not safe in the > hands of a group of motivated and self serving individuals who have > absolutely no scruples in the way in which they represent that cause. > Their actions indicate that perhaps they could be counted as amongst the > worst enemies that the displaced Kashmiri Pandit population have, or can > have. They may not have murdered people, but they have certainly > attempted to assasinate time and again the possibility of a peaceful > settlement of the Kashmir question. > > 7. Epilogue: Stray Thoughts on Audio Recording and Translation > > I spent this evening talking separately to two friends, very different > people, before sitting through the night to write this posting. One was > a sound recordist and engineer with a special interest in the auditory > qualities of mobile phone devices, an inventive, cheerful and curious > person who is passionate about the properties of of sound and the craft > of sound recording. The second was a person who teaches a foreign > language in Delhi university, someone whom I have known for the last six > years, and whom I have had several regular but occasional conversations > that I always find personally rewarding. > > I asked the first person whether a set of significant sounds, say three > words, could be retrieved from the auditory black hole of digital noise > in a recording of a mobile phone conversation. She said "no, a digital > auditory black hole is a digital auditory black hole. Once a signal > passes below the threshold of audibility and recognition due to the > interference of noise, it cannot be retrieved by 'cleaning up' the > recording". In other words, there are next to no chances of the recovery > of words that might or might not have been said from under the patina of > digital noise in a recording. Ambient noise can be cleaned, provided > there is a sufficient sample of ambient noise available for a detailed > acoustic analysis to be done, which in turn would help in eliminating > the interfering frequencies, and so 'recover' the lost sound. But a > mobile phone conversation is a digital signal, and a phone intercept of > a mobile phone conversation is a degraded digital signal, and with a > less than quality signal to noise ratio, in other words, more noise, > less signal. These degradations are usually irreparable. For all > practical purposes, we might as well assume that whatever may be > underneath the corroded patch of signal, is non existent. The words 'yeh > che zaroori' will never be found, even if we look for them. > > Unfortunately, words let loose in spite, or in anger, on an electronic > list, rarely if ever go into a digital black hole. They stay orbiting > the ether for a long time, bouncing across continents in forwards, > replies and rejoinders. Everything A.R.K.P said on this list is going to > stay, and it is their problem as to how they will live with the endless > google searches that will turn up their fabrications, time and time > again. Archived lists have cruel and unforgiving memories, I hope that > before the next time anyone hits 'send' on a mail written in undue > haste, they remember this simple fact. > > After I met the sound engineer friend, who is by nature shy and > reticent, and wishes to remain nameless, I went to another > rendezvous,this time with the language teacher. We talked of many > things, and one of the things we talked about, was the fact that while > the narration of an offence or a misdemeanour always translates easily > in a courtroom, and then in society at large, as guilt, it remains very > difficult to translate innocence. When someone does something wrong, or > is seen as doing something wrong, you can always find words to give form > to what they have done, or to what you think they have done. On the > other hand, when someone has done nothing, it becomes very difficult to > find words to give substance to this absence of an action. How can you > sculpt a form and a shape out of the negation of a form or a shape? That > is why innocence is difficult to translate in any language. That is why > it is so easy for us to point fingers at others. Words of accusation > fall off the tip of our tongues, or our fingers, like acid rain. > > We spoke in a comfortable mix of Hindustani and English, switching from > one language to another as if they were playmates. I gave examples about > how one might say 'E ki kando' in Bengali, he talked about the occasions > when one might say 'Yeh ki Korua' in Kashmiri. We had several cups of > coffee. We talked about the difficulty of translating silences in any > language. We parted promising to lend each other books that we had > talked about in the course of the conversation. > > This friend speaks Kashmiri at home, teaches Arabic in the university, > and has had to think, due to a continuing set of circumstances, long and > hard, harder than anyone I know, about truth, translation, guilt and > innocence. His name is Syed Abdul Rahman Geelani. > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 20:53:11 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:53:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Translation, Guilt, Innocence and Two Cups of Coffee In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70708310818m78c93710yc8dfa42bf2032ca6@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D76491.9060906@sarai.net> <46D82663.2050708@sarai.net> <6b79f1a70708310818m78c93710yc8dfa42bf2032ca6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70708310823m6944cf67w5527467909d4f470@mail.gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>I hope we can go back to the ordinary, everyday life of the list soon, a lot of interesting postings from Sarai Independent Fellows are standing neglected because of the tornadoes that have hit the list of late, but I am sure we will find ways of getting back to an even keel soon. I look forward to lots of different writing on lots of different issues from many correspondents.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Respected Suddha Ji , NamaskAr With your concluding para , i believe you have conveyed a message that you no longer wish to debate or discuss this issue. I do understand that it is painful to change a stand for which you have stood for a long time , even if the reality check gives a different view. Anyway , that is your choice and we cant force a discussion. However I wish to request you to kindly save the words like "Tornadoes" for those who deserve it. If having a different view is being seen as a "tornadoes" by you , i can understand how "liberal & democratic" you are. I may not be as intelligent as you think of yourself, but I wish to remind you that I have been born in a Kashmiri family, never stayed out of Kashmir at length for 18 years of my life till my house was burnt and we were chased out in the middle of night along with lacs of others. In my whole family everyone is a kashmiri and we speak kashmiri . So atleast I have better knowledge of Kashmiri than you can teach me. Your teaching me what a particular sentence means in Kashmiri is as good as me giving you lecture about "Prathom Alo". I also do not wish to carry on the debate any further , as you chose to ignore all arguments .About the screenings part , it is Sanjay & his team and RIK & team who know the fact.The reason I spoke about Sanjays "testimony" was to give you an idea of Sanjays reliability. Sampat Prakash I know since ages ,much better than any of you. Rest God knows where the truth lies. Of course you dont believe God as well. You may carry on with your idea where you state "I hope we can go back to the ordinary, everyday life of the list soon.............. but I am sure we will find ways of getting back to an even keel soon". That is what I believe a "Mutual Admiration Society " stands for ! Lastly , thank you for you lip service about Kashmiri Pandits. It is akin to the occasional Hurriyat statements about Kashmiri Pandits. How I wish If you could have spared 1% of energy to know the facts of miseries of kashmiri pandits and start helping them ....instead of...... God Bless You All Pawan Durani From venkatt2k at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 21:07:15 2007 From: venkatt2k at gmail.com (venkat t) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:07:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] sixth posting Migrant workers on the IT corridor Message-ID: <388da81f0708310837v24f7feaj96f52f792dd9aab@mail.gmail.com> Sixth posting: Migrant workers on the IT corridor The work on the IT expressway, which had been slackened for a few months has hastened. There is once again feverish activity on the road itself with large complex machines black topping large sections of the road. Though not a single KiloMeter has been completed since the first phase was commissioned more than a year ago, there has been some momentum in the pace of the work. We had raised some questions in the previous posting and I would like to take it from there. Why don't the migrant workers agitate for a better living and working conditions? Apart from the reasons that we pointed out in the last posting, there is also a clear attitude and perception among the workers. Many have come here to clear debts back in their native place; some have come here to earn money to build houses in their villages, or for a marriage etc. As one of the contractors we spoke to said "we are here to work hard and earn money, we will spend it in our village." This being the attitude the workers are prepared to endure any hardship to earn a few rupees more. But this said when things go out of the hand, they agitate spontaneously. The only form of agitation that they know is to refuse to go to work. in almost all the places that we have interacted, there have been times when they have struck work, mostly for water, fire wood and electricity. The Pressing need for day care centers and multi lingual primary schools: There is no statistics on the number of children who have come along with the families of the migrant workers. But as far as we have seen, every site we have visited has upward of 20 children in critical need of day care and primary education. As the parents go to work, the children are left to fend for themselves. This poses a serious threat to the safety and security of the children. Though they are very much alive to these dangers, material conditions do not allow them to take care of their children. Thus there is genuinely founded fear about abductors and kidnappers. The children are also vulnerable to criminals and anti social elements. The most unfortunate element is the fact that almost all the children had access to primary schools in their villages. Many of the older children had been in schools before they were brought here. But they have no scope for any sort of schooling as most of the companies have not bothered to look into this aspect. While there are a few NGOs that have taken up this task, they are too few to make any real change. The problem is compounded by the fact that there are children of different lingual backgrounds. A boy from srikakulam, whose mother and brother have come to work on the IT corridor, said "I wanted to be a master or a doctor when I was in school. I studied till the sixth grade, but my father expired and we had to come here to work. There is no school here, I take up odd jobs; other wise I play with the kids most of the time." Entire districts have been emptied of its workforce and robbed of its children. Many of the children have resigned to their fate. They know that their childhood is over and that they do not have any better opportunities than their parents. What is ironic is that this is the state of affairs on a corridor that is considered a Knowledge corridor. We would be ruining the lives of generations to come if we fail to address such issues. Can the country afford to fail to tap the talents and resources of teeming millions, and continue to depend on the affluent few who have escaped this desolation? What is the damage that this endemic illiteracy cause to our social fabric? We could urbanise our population by destroying agriculture and empting the rural areas but we are only sowing the seeds of a catastrophe if we fail to address the concerns of the urban poor of which the migrant construction workers have become an integral part. The State has to play a major role in creating the necessary infrastructure and making the principal employer accountable. venkat From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Fri Aug 31 23:18:23 2007 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:48:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] Freedom of Expression my foot! In-Reply-To: <562319.28190.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <254303.42523.qm@web8413.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul Of course I am not in favour of somebody's freedom of expression which puts the national security at risk. I would certainly not like an action which helps in sinking the boat which I am also riding. But the point is, who should decide what is a security risk? A statement which is a painful truth for someone could be a security risk for others. To extend your analogy a little, if the oarsman of the boat decides that a few travelers are his enemy and tries to push them into the water, there will be a clash where the victims may try to throw the oarsman himself into water. Of course the other travelers who are not aware of the origin of the clash will declare the victimized group as their enemies and so on. Thus it becomes a conflict. I know it’s a childish analogy but the reality is much more complex. Each one of us is living with our own versions of history, and that decides our definition of nationhood and patriotism. No Indian (or human) today will say that he/she is not victimized by somebody/something or the other. Everyone's (hi)story is important. It’s just that the state has the power to legitimately suppress other's version of the history if they want to. And that's where my problem lies with the nationhood and the constitution. I fail to understand what you mean by the "essential nature of the state" and why is it over and above everything? What if it hurts me instead of safeguarding me? What if this “nature of state” discriminates against a certain group of its citizens because of sheer sectarian prejudice or simply corruption? Ultimately the “nature of state” in its practical form is nothing but a bunch of civil servants, MPs, judges, soldiers, cops - do you think all of them are angels from heaven? (I am not denying thier sacrifices in running the country and saving us from all the dangers, and so on). But do they follow the constitution as perfectly as required? And forget about national security and defense – have they provided clean water, sanitization, basic health, education, roads, housing, employment, and food to everyone? Is the “nature of state” above all these essential duties? Why shouldn’t someone become Naxalite given the current nature of state? It doesn't matter how clean and perfect our constitution is, or what our fathers of the Nation dreamt about. What matters is how is the state treating its people? (Of course its reverse is also important). But I or anyone else who faces injustice and partiality will have a shaky belief in the state and nationhood. In any case, most of our middle and lower-middle class today is so helpless, frustrated, and tired that they don’t give a damn to nationalism. The only people who are happily patriotic are some nicely employed or filthy rich or the NRIs. Don’t you think? Fatima --- Rahul Asthana wrote: > Dear Sadia, > Sorry for the belated reply.I guess I could not > explain myself clearly.Kshmendra has articulated it > better than me.Anyways,I will try once more. > To take a rough analogy;all of us are traveling in a > boat.It does not matter really how we evolved into > it.The boat should prohibit any activity which may > sink it,isnt that logical? > Lets take the matter of Kashmir out of this for a > sec.Right now,lets just focus on this:Whether it is > justified by a nation to ban any kind of freedom of > expression on any pretext.You obviously think there > should be no checks on the freedom of expression.I > would say,as I did in my earlier email,that anything > which is contradictory to the essential nature of > the > state,should be banned.I gave the example of Iran.I > will give one other example.Lets suppose there is a > monarchy in which there is hereditary > succession.Suppose someone starts preaching about > democracy in a monarchy.So yeah they will be jailed > etc.Its only after a revolution,civil war etc that > one > can change the essential nature of a nation state. > Lets come to India now.Its a secular democracy.Now > the > founding fathers of the nation wanted it to be > so.Lets > consider two imaginary scenarios and you tell me > where > freedom of expression will lead to in that > scenario.. > 1. BJP-RSS-VHP talk about making India a hindu > state > and start giving inflammatory speeches about > muslims. > 2. Chief of army staff writes a book on the corrupt > politicians and argues how dictatorship is good for > India.He starts holding meetings and tries to build > a > consensus that civilians are not fit to rule the > country and military should take over.He even starts > ad campaigns on TV. > I could give several such examples.The steps to my > reasoning is.. > 1.Anything which is contradictory to the essential > nature of state;the state will not provide a > constitutional procedure to let that happen. > 2.The only way to bring about that kind of change is > civil war\blood shed. > 3.If freedom of expression is provided in such a > scenario,it could lead to violence and in the > extreme > case the change of the essential nature of the > state. > > If we still do not agree that the nation is > justified > in curbing the freedom of expression in certain > cases,please let me know what you think. > > You have talked about nation and constitution not > being divine ordained,of course its not;but I did > not > get your point.What are you trying to say?Are you > pointing at the Caliphate and Shariat in place of > nation and constitution?If you are then again I > would > say;the secular democratic nation of India should > suppress your freedom of expression.A secular > democracy is what I was born into and this is how I > want it to stay.Please note that this is not a moral > judgment on your stand,its just that I have chosen > my > side. > You have also talked about"the current version of > nationalism being full of gas" I totally agree with > you.Nationalism to me is first and foremost an idea > that gives us certain freedoms,protections and > basically enables all of us to peacefully > coexist.Beyond that,I have no use for it.I am not an > "India Shining" or "mera bharat mahaan" kind of > patriot.Its not a judgement on those who are, but I > just want you to understand where I am coming from. > So I would support full freedom of expression on > anything that can be achieved without violating the > essential nature of the state.Even the constiution > is > open for amendment.But the essential nature of the > state is not. > If there is anything else I have missed,please let > me > know. > There is the specfic matter about "self > determination > in kashmir".I will post on that later;time > permitting. > regards > Rahul > > --- "S.Fatima" wrote: > > > Dear Rahul > > I don't agree with you on this. Where has this > > concept > > of Nation, Nationalism, Rashtra come from? Was it > > there in our country 100 years ago, or 300 years, > or > > 2000 years ago? Has it been mentioned in any > > Shastras? > > I don't think so. It has been implanted into us by > > the > > colonial rule. While we continue to reject so many > > things as "foreign" we have happily accepted this > > concept as it suits our ends. Why? Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From info at kevinkaul.com Thu Aug 30 03:56:57 2007 From: info at kevinkaul.com (FOSAAC (KEVIN KAUL)) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Reader-list] FOSAAC'S RAJ KAPOOR AWARDEE FOR 2007 IS SHONALI BOSE, DIRECTOR OF AWARD WINNING FILM "AMU"-SEP 15TH AT THE BEVERLY HILTON HOTEL Message-ID: <1101795544837.1101245878128.30901.5.771820A1@scheduler> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 29 August 2007 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Issue: 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Welcome to Friends of the South Asian American Communities Dear ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PLEASE CONGRATULATE MS SHONALI BOSE FOR RECEIVING THE 2007 RAJ KAPOOR AWARD .THIS WILL BE RECEIVED BY HER ON SEP 15TH AT THE BEVERLY HILTON HOTEL.PLEASE READ HER COMMENDATIONS BELOW AND ALSO LOOK AT THE EVENT BY CLICKING BELOW- http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=fytdcecab.0.ytfbndcab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsasia.us%2Faward-add.asp] Thanks Kishore ( Kevin) Kaul Office US- 562 -865 -2060, 562 -865-2075 Fax US- 562-865-2080 US Cell-562-572-8751 Founder Friends of the South Asian American Communities Inc www.fosaac.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=fytdcecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] "Powerful...A filmmaker to watch!" -LA Weekly "Subtly acted, heart-wrenching ...it's made more powerful by the fact that the Indian government tried very hard to suppress the story." -New York Magazine "Exquisite storytelling. A courageous and honest film. Amu is brilliant! A MUST SEE!" -Mira Nair, director ( The Namesake, Salaam Bombay) "A first rate detective story...Bose is a fearless filmmaker who certainly knows how to tell an engrossing tale without compromising political viewpoint." -Hollywood Reporter FINAL WEEK! Starting Friday June 29th Laemmle Music Hall 9O36 Wilshire Blvd. · Beverly Hills, CA · 31O-274-6869 Fri 5:OO, *7:3O, 1O:OO Sat 12:OO, *2:3O, *5:OO, *7:3O, 1O:OO Sun & Wed 12:OO, 2:3O, 5:OO, 7:3O, 1O:OO Mon, Tues & Thurs 5:OO, 7:3O, 1O:OO www.amuthefilm.com www.emergingpictures.com www.myspace.com/amuthefilm WINNER NATIONAL AWARD INDIA 2005 WINNER NATIONAL AWARD INDIA 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION TORONTO FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION TORONTO FILM FESTIVAL 2005 WINNER FIPRESCI CRITICS AWARD 2005 WINNER FIPRESCI CRITICS AWARD 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION AFI FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION AFI FILM FESTIVAL 2005 a film by shonali bose A groundbreaking and controversial film based on the 1984 carnage in India. A groundbreaking and controversial film based on the 1984 carnage in India. *Filmmakers Shonali Bose and/or Bedabrata Pain will be on hand to do a post-screening Q&A For advance ticket sales visit www.laemmle.com For Immediate Release Contact: Wellington Love/15minutes 212.366.4992 wellingtonlove at 15minutespr.com [mailto:wellingtonlove at 15minutespr.com] ACCLAIMED FILM AMU MAKES ITS U.S. THEATRICAL DEBUT FOLLOWING ITS CONTROVERSIAL RELEASE IN INDIA Winner - Best Director, Best English Language Film - 2005 National Awards (India) Winner - 2005 FIPRESCI Critics Award Official Selection - 2005 Berlin Film Festival Official Selection - 2005 Toronto Film Festival Official Selection - 2005 AFI Film Festival Writer-director Shonali Bose's award-winning Indian film Amu began its U.S. theatrical release on May 25, 2007 at New York City's Cinema Village and ImaginAsian Theater. After a successful four week run in New York Amu opened in Los Angeles in three theaters and is continuing on to its 3rd week at the Laemmle Music Hall (9036 Wilshire Blvd.) in Beverly Hills. Received with critical acclaim during its Canadian and Indian theatrical run, Bose's feature film debut presents a contemporary and politically volatile tale of a young Indian-American woman's search for the truth about her past. The protagonist Kaju Roy has returned to India to visit her relatives and spends much of her time touring Delhi with college student Kabir. As she visits the slums and crowded markets of the capital city, Kaju experiences haunting feelings of déjà vu. Compelled by her startling visions, she investigates the circumstances of her birth parents' death and her own adoption. Against the pleas of her adopted mother, Kaju - torn between being Indian and American, between her loving adopted family and the faded memories of her birth parents - embarks on an emotional journey for answers as to who she is and where she comes from. Though hindered by long-held secrets and witnesses who refuse to revisit the past, Kaju's difficult search for the truth brings to light surprising revelations from those closest to her and draws her unexpectedly nearer to a tragic event in India's history. Bose's subtle pacing and deft storytelling skills bring the film to a startling conclusion. Hailed by renowned director Mira Nair as "courageous, honest, [and] compelling," Bose's provocative film comes to the U.S. after its controversial run in India, where it was censored for its brave indictment of the Indian government's role in the Delhi riots that followed the 1984 assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Sikhs. The film, moreover, was given an "A" rating - roughly the equivalent of an "R" rating in the U.S. - by the regulatory board of India who stated their reason as "why should young people know a history that is better buried and forgotten." For its Indian theatrical release, 5 cuts were made pertaining to dialogue that criticized the government's role in the riots. In order to be broadcast on television, the filmmakers would have been required to remove three key scenes - rendering the storyline meaningless. Bose's bold confrontation of India's troubled past put hers at the forefront of a new generation of filmmakers who seek to create realistic, socially relevant dramas. Her virtue as a writer-director is that she weaves the politics of the film within a stirring emotional drama. Born and raised in India before receiving her MFA in directing from UCLA, filmmaker Shonali Bose has a personal connection to the controversial subject matter of her film. A 19-year-old student at the time of the Delhi riots, Bose worked in the relief camps where she heard the horror stories of the victims. She then worked as an activist after her move to the United States, where she met activist and scientist Bedabrata Pain. Pain was also deeply involved in the movement for justice for the '84 victims, and they had no doubt that the massacre would be the subject of Bose's first feature film. After three years of debilitating rejections - investors were convinced that a film on '84 should not be made - it was Bedabrata's invention of the technology used to make the world's smallest camera which provided seed money for Amu. Bose's previous film credits include the narrative short films The Gendarme is Here and Undocumented, and a feature-length documentary Lifting the Veil. Amu has screened at film festivals worldwide, earning numerous awards and honors, including 2 National Awards of India, for Best English Language Film and Best Director. Kirk Honeycutt of the Hollywood Reporter called Bose a "fearless filmmaker" whose film is a "first-rate detective story" that "beautifully personalizes a social and political tragedy." http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp PLEASE SEE THE PREVIOUS EVENTS AT WWW.FOSAAC.COM [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=fytdcecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] PLEASE ATTEND THE MEETING ON TUESDAY AT 7PM IN ARTESIA Thanks Kishore ( Kevin) Kaul Office US- 562 -865 -2060, 562 -865-2075 Fax US- 562-865-2080 US Cell-562-572-8751 Founder Friends of the South Asian American Communities Inc www.fosaac.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=fytdcecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] Mr GURBAX SINGH BHASIN IS THE EVENT CONVENOR FOR THE FOSAAC AWARD CEREMONIES 2007.THIS CAN BE VIEWED AT BY CLICKING HERE - http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=fytdcecab.0.ytfbndcab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsasia.us%2Faward-add.asp] THE HOST COMMITTEE MEETING IS SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY AT 7PM, AUGUST 28TH IN THE OFFICE OF FOSAAC IN ARTESIA.THE ADDRESS IS AS FOLLOWS- 18766 PIONEER BL, ARTESIA,CA,90701 ALL ARE WELCOME TO ATTEND AND PARTICIPATE Mr. Gurbax Singh Bhasin (EVENT CONVENOR) CEO, Prego Inc. 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Pai Mr. Imdad Ali Mrs Kalyani Iyer Mr. Lalit Kapoor Mr. Bhargava Mr. Wallace Williams Dr. Sardesai Mr. Raj Mubarak Mr. John Lopez Mr. Cary Arnold Mr. Zubin Fitter Ms. Perinne Medora Dr. Kailash Dhamija Dr. Vijay Kumar Major Gurjeet Singh (Retd) Mr. Niranjan Patel Mr. Avinash Sankhla Mr. Ashok Dhar Ms. Krishna Roy Mr. Arnold Kaminsky Mr. Inder Sharma Mr. Dinesh Shah Mr. Subash Razdan Mr. Virender Qazi Mr. S Sathyamoorthy Mr. Nagarajan Mr. Rakesh Bedi Dr. Raj Shrotriya Mr. Sasoon Sales Esq Mr. Mohan Singh Mr. Narain Thirumurthy Mr. Mark Reidy Esq Mr. Anshuman Sinha Mr. Amit Ghosh Mr. C S Ramesh Mr. Saiful Mr. Alan Ms. Monalisa Mr. Dipak Surcar Ms. Sumita Batra Ms. Supriya Bharadwaj Mr. Ramji Bhai Patel Dr. Ravindra Mr. Devender Reddy Mr. Haridhar Reddy Mr. Sridhar Reddy Mr. Roger Bhasin Mr. Mike Zee Mr. Mukesh Tyagi Mr. Nagpal Mr. RK Sharma Mr. Shailendra Kothari Mr. Sreekar Ms. Sunita Bannerjee Ms. Priyanka Ved Mehta Mr. Anil Ved Mehta Mr. CL Kaul Mr. PRK Murthy Mr. Reuben Gomez Mr. Perry Singerman Mr. Chandan Ghosh Mr. Somnath Chatterjee Mr. Rajesh Aiya Mr. Vimal Patel Mr. Mayank Mr. Sreekar Mr. Steve Carmona Mr. Naresh Patel Mr. Vinod Bhagat Mr. Trevor Mr. Rick Velásquez Mr. Fred Guido Mr. Gurdayal Singh Mr. Doug Barrier Mr. ST Prasad Mr. Tevan Aroustamian Mr. Dilip Bhutáni Mr. Ishwar Deedwania Mr. Moti Kapoor Mr. Chander Mittal Ms. Heena Desai Ms. Aasha Gowda Ms. Alka Manaktala Mr. Sunil Narkar Mr. Mihir Desai Ms. Shaila Mistry Ms. Vinita Vinit Ms. Vinita Vibhakar Mr. Anil Mahajan Mr. Deepak Jhaveri Dr. Paramjit Thakrar Dr. Mishal Mr. Mallik Banda Mr. Hemanth Mistry Ms. Sachu Dr. Rangesh Gadassalli Mr. Harish Dhruv Mr. Kamini Khare Dr. Mohan Roy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kevin Kaul Friends of the South Asian American Communities 562-572-8751 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101245878128&ea=reader-list at sarai.net&a=1101795544837 This email was sent to reader-list at sarai.net, by info at kevinkaul.com Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795544837&lang=en&reason=F Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795544837&lang=en&reason=F Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Friends of the South Asian American Communities | FOSAAC | 11432 South St | #308 | Cerritos | CA | 90703 From info at kevinkaul.com Thu Aug 30 06:59:06 2007 From: info at kevinkaul.com (FOSAAC (KEVIN KAUL)) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Reader-list] PRESS RELEASE ON CALTRANS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST 5 MILLION FOSAAC MEMBER'S CONSISTING OF ALL SOUTH ASIANS Message-ID: <1101795665244.1101245878128.30901.5.152125A1@scheduler> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 29 August 2007 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Issue: 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Welcome to Friends of the South Asian American Communities Dear ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.newsasia.us/caltrans.asp [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=7kjhcecab.0.yaugcecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsasia.us%2Fcaltrans.asp] Discrimination to 5 million FOSAAC Members by CALTRANS By M Zafarullah: The business enterprises of the Subcontinent Asian American Communities are currently included as Disadvantage Business Enterprises (DBE) in several Federal, State and local funded programs. These programs have been created to eliminate historic discrimination and to make it possible for these groups realize the American dream. Based on a selective limited study CALTRANS has decided to exclude the Subcontinent Asian American enterprise groups from the DBE classification whereas African Americans, Asian Pacific Americans, Caucasian Women, Native Americans have been allowed to continue. A meeting was held in Artesia at the FOSAAC (Friends of South Asian American Communities) office to appoint Kevin Kaul as the spokes person for the group is willing to strategize and lead for the steps needed to maintain status quo for this group in the CALTRANS' DBE program. The meeting was well attended and included several South Asian business enterprises who expressed concern that the loss of DBE status will cause long term hardship and unemployment for these 5 million business enterprises. The meeting was attended by more than 200 leaders of the South Asian American Communities in the Little India Village Office of FOSAAC. Details of FOSAAC can be looked up at www.fosaac.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=7kjhcecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kevin Kaul Friends of the South Asian American Communities 562-572-8751 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101245878128&ea=reader-list at sarai.net&a=1101795665244 This email was sent to reader-list at sarai.net, by info at kevinkaul.com Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795665244&lang=en&reason=F Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795665244&lang=en&reason=F Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Friends of the South Asian American Communities | FOSAAC | 11432 South St | #308 | Cerritos | CA | 90703 From info at kevinkaul.com Thu Aug 30 08:17:17 2007 From: info at kevinkaul.com (FOSAAC (KEVIN KAUL)) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Reader-list] COMMENTS OF THE COMMUNITY-FOSAAC'S RAJ KAPOOR AWARDEE FOR 2007 IS SHONALI BOSE, DIRECTOR OF AWARD WINNING FILM Message-ID: <1101795720556.1101245878128.30901.5.982240A1@scheduler> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 29 August 2007 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Issue: 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Welcome to Friends of the South Asian American Communities Dear ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Congrats to Shonali Bose indeed, but also to the producer, Dr. Bedobrata Pain, her spirited husband. You may consider posting what I wrote about the film after watching it. -- Omar From:Omarhuda at aol.com [mailto:Omarhuda at aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 5:05 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: To those who have yet not seen AMU yet I saw AMU twice. The second time it hit me. Why does it keep happening? A beautifully presented simple story: A young Indian girl, adopted and raised in USA, returns to India in search of her biological parents. The search for parents by a child given over for adoption, leading to stories of love, sometimes intrigue, often violence and hunger, and always heartbreaks. These are not unusually unique. But I enjoyed three things tremendously: * Half the conversation was in my own tongue - Bengali (with English subtitles) * The funny moments of a family get-together shown in a way that made me feel a part of what I was seeing on the screen. * The Director, a talented UCLA Film School grad, a Los Angeles based Bengali lady, I have long known as a voice conscience. But then ... the story takes a turn .. the horror of November 1984 massacre of Sikhs in Delhi, India [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.kxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sikhmediawatch.org%2Fpubs%2FNovember_1984.pdf], becomes humanized in a fictionalized story of a real history. You see a helpless Sikh family brutalized, a helpless mother running from police to political leaders standing by and watching, cajoling and ignoring. Remember this scene - it will repeat - again and again - not in the movie, but in the forward-fasted real-life history. I remember having lived through the 1984 Sikh massacre in a blip, and then forgot. They said it was better to forget. Most young people don't know about it, most of us who know, think it was just a bad moment in the rule of Indian Congress Party. To date, there has not been either an investigation, nor justice! I had heard from my parents the horror of 1947 riots in India - from Bengal in the east to Punjab in the west - a million people died in an engulfing nine-months' communal riot in the aftermath of an Independence Movement, much touted in the West as a "non-violent", political movement. They had said, forget and move on. Except for another fictionalized book 'Train to Pakistan' by Khushwant Singh [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.lxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scholarswithoutborders.in%2Fitem_show.php%3Fcode_no%3DC003] - later made in to a heart-wrenching movie - I rarely ever think about it. It was in the past - a sad chapter in the history of the Indian subcontinent. The food for thought is that prior to this period - the end days of British Raj - there had never been a communal carnage in the subcontinent! Much the same way that there has never been a communal Shia-Sunni carnage in Iraq prior to the end days of the Anglo-American empire building there! AMU the film begs the question - "Have the local politicians picked up on the efficacy of the 'Divide and Rule' policy?" Think. Hardly six years had passed since I forgot the Sikh massacre of 1984. The flames lighted again in 1992. 150,000 people led by some of India's top political leaders (e.g. Lal Krishna Advani, the then ruling party president), tore down a [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.oxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.countercurrents.org%2Fcomm-penberthy170904.htm] 400 years Babri Mosque in Ayodhya, India [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.oxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.countercurrents.org%2Fcomm-penberthy170904.htm] - once again over a dispute over who owned the "Babri" - Hindus or Muslims in India? [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.pxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FSoHo%2FStudios%2F8611%2Fmosque.html] A dispute over a 400 years old site? Many innocents died, not only in India, but also in a bizarre repercussion, in Bangladesh. Author Taslima Nasreen recorded the repercussion in her [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.qxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Ftaslimanasrin.com%2Fquill_courage.htm] book [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.qxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Ftaslimanasrin.com%2Fquill_courage.htm]'Lajja' [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.qxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Ftaslimanasrin.com%2Fquill_courage.htm]or 'Shame' [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.qxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Ftaslimanasrin.com%2Fquill_courage.htm] - now banned both in Bangladesh and India. Then 911 happened in New York in 2001 - 3000 innocent people had their life cut short in an inhuman atrocity. They said the world had forever changed since then! It was the worst crime of humanity, they said. So we remember, for we are asked to remember. We are also asked to remember another failure of humanity (or was it Europe's?) - one that was worse then the worst - the Holocaust of WWII. So we remember, for we are asked to remember! But we forget another no less a horrible carnage. Just a year later, in 2002, another bigger, more systematic, more planned, more government sanctioned, more socially participated - massacre happened - this time in Gujarat, India [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.rxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anti-caste.org%2Fmuslim_question%2Fgujarat.html]. 3000 innocent people died, also very brutally, and thousands still languish from it in refugee camps, unable to go back home for fear of safety. Some of us want to forget, some say it was an "isolated incident", and some still argue that it was a "justified act", and some even raise the "Muslim Question" - after the Nazi's "Jewish Question"! If 1984 was a failure of the "secular, centrist" Congress Party, this was a failure of the "ultra right wing religious" BJP Party. The Indian courts have taken it up, but the investigation drags its feet. Last year, the US denied entry to Narendra Modi, the alleged mastermind of the carnage, and still the present Chief Minister of the Gujarat State. AMU the film [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.sxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amuthefilm.com%2Fintro.html] the film reminds us that we have a choice. * Either we wave our flag and chant Amitabh Bachchan's dramatic "India Poised [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.txdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjhaIn8pCQpc]", place AMU the film as one in the "Other India" that "shames the nation" and "pulls it back", and be prepared to "forget" more of the "isolated carnage" that will repeat, again and again, each time worse than the last, OR, * Relive and humanize each of the "isolated carnage" and resolve to tell the politicians - NEVER AGAIN! AMU the film [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.sxdicecab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amuthefilm.com%2Fintro.html] helps you do just that! -- Omar Huda "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty and democracy? - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. PLEASE CONGRATULATE MS SHONALI BOSE FOR RECEIVING THE 2007 RAJ KAPOOR AWARD .THIS WILL BE RECEIVED BY HER ON SEP 15TH AT THE BEVERLY HILTON HOTEL.PLEASE READ HER COMMENDATIONS BELOW AND ALSO LOOK AT THE EVENT BY CLICKING BELOW- http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.ytfbndcab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsasia.us%2Faward-add.asp] Thanks Kishore ( Kevin) Kaul Office US- 562 -865 -2060, 562 -865-2075 Fax US- 562-865-2080 US Cell-562-572-8751 Founder Friends of the South Asian American Communities Inc www.fosaac.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] "Powerful...A filmmaker to watch!" -LA Weekly "Subtly acted, heart-wrenching ...it's made more powerful by the fact that the Indian government tried very hard to suppress the story." -New York Magazine "Exquisite storytelling. A courageous and honest film. Amu is brilliant! A MUST SEE!" -Mira Nair, director ( The Namesake, Salaam Bombay) "A first rate detective story...Bose is a fearless filmmaker who certainly knows how to tell an engrossing tale without compromising political viewpoint." -Hollywood Reporter FINAL WEEK! Starting Friday June 29th Laemmle Music Hall 9O36 Wilshire Blvd. · Beverly Hills, CA · 31O-274-6869 Fri 5:OO, *7:3O, 1O:OO Sat 12:OO, *2:3O, *5:OO, *7:3O, 1O:OO Sun & Wed 12:OO, 2:3O, 5:OO, 7:3O, 1O:OO Mon, Tues & Thurs 5:OO, 7:3O, 1O:OO www.amuthefilm.com www.emergingpictures.com www.myspace.com/amuthefilm WINNER NATIONAL AWARD INDIA 2005 WINNER NATIONAL AWARD INDIA 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION TORONTO FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION TORONTO FILM FESTIVAL 2005 WINNER FIPRESCI CRITICS AWARD 2005 WINNER FIPRESCI CRITICS AWARD 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION BERLIN FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION AFI FILM FESTIVAL 2005 OFFICIAL SELECTION AFI FILM FESTIVAL 2005 a film by shonali bose A groundbreaking and controversial film based on the 1984 carnage in India. A groundbreaking and controversial film based on the 1984 carnage in India. *Filmmakers Shonali Bose and/or Bedabrata Pain will be on hand to do a post-screening Q&A For advance ticket sales visit www.laemmle.com For Immediate Release Contact: Wellington Love/15minutes 212.366.4992 wellingtonlove at 15minutespr.com [mailto:wellingtonlove at 15minutespr.com] ACCLAIMED FILM AMU MAKES ITS U.S. THEATRICAL DEBUT FOLLOWING ITS CONTROVERSIAL RELEASE IN INDIA Winner - Best Director, Best English Language Film - 2005 National Awards (India) Winner - 2005 FIPRESCI Critics Award Official Selection - 2005 Berlin Film Festival Official Selection - 2005 Toronto Film Festival Official Selection - 2005 AFI Film Festival Writer-director Shonali Bose's award-winning Indian film Amu began its U.S. theatrical release on May 25, 2007 at New York City's Cinema Village and ImaginAsian Theater. After a successful four week run in New York Amu opened in Los Angeles in three theaters and is continuing on to its 3rd week at the Laemmle Music Hall (9036 Wilshire Blvd.) in Beverly Hills. Received with critical acclaim during its Canadian and Indian theatrical run, Bose's feature film debut presents a contemporary and politically volatile tale of a young Indian-American woman's search for the truth about her past. The protagonist Kaju Roy has returned to India to visit her relatives and spends much of her time touring Delhi with college student Kabir. As she visits the slums and crowded markets of the capital city, Kaju experiences haunting feelings of déjà vu. Compelled by her startling visions, she investigates the circumstances of her birth parents' death and her own adoption. Against the pleas of her adopted mother, Kaju - torn between being Indian and American, between her loving adopted family and the faded memories of her birth parents - embarks on an emotional journey for answers as to who she is and where she comes from. Though hindered by long-held secrets and witnesses who refuse to revisit the past, Kaju's difficult search for the truth brings to light surprising revelations from those closest to her and draws her unexpectedly nearer to a tragic event in India's history. Bose's subtle pacing and deft storytelling skills bring the film to a startling conclusion. Hailed by renowned director Mira Nair as "courageous, honest, [and] compelling," Bose's provocative film comes to the U.S. after its controversial run in India, where it was censored for its brave indictment of the Indian government's role in the Delhi riots that followed the 1984 assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of Sikhs. The film, moreover, was given an "A" rating - roughly the equivalent of an "R" rating in the U.S. - by the regulatory board of India who stated their reason as "why should young people know a history that is better buried and forgotten." For its Indian theatrical release, 5 cuts were made pertaining to dialogue that criticized the government's role in the riots. In order to be broadcast on television, the filmmakers would have been required to remove three key scenes - rendering the storyline meaningless. Bose's bold confrontation of India's troubled past put hers at the forefront of a new generation of filmmakers who seek to create realistic, socially relevant dramas. Her virtue as a writer-director is that she weaves the politics of the film within a stirring emotional drama. Born and raised in India before receiving her MFA in directing from UCLA, filmmaker Shonali Bose has a personal connection to the controversial subject matter of her film. A 19-year-old student at the time of the Delhi riots, Bose worked in the relief camps where she heard the horror stories of the victims. She then worked as an activist after her move to the United States, where she met activist and scientist Bedabrata Pain. Pain was also deeply involved in the movement for justice for the '84 victims, and they had no doubt that the massacre would be the subject of Bose's first feature film. After three years of debilitating rejections - investors were convinced that a film on '84 should not be made - it was Bedabrata's invention of the technology used to make the world's smallest camera which provided seed money for Amu. Bose's previous film credits include the narrative short films The Gendarme is Here and Undocumented, and a feature-length documentary Lifting the Veil. Amu has screened at film festivals worldwide, earning numerous awards and honors, including 2 National Awards of India, for Best English Language Film and Best Director. Kirk Honeycutt of the Hollywood Reporter called Bose a "fearless filmmaker" whose film is a "first-rate detective story" that "beautifully personalizes a social and political tragedy." http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp PLEASE SEE THE PREVIOUS EVENTS AT WWW.FOSAAC.COM [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] PLEASE ATTEND THE MEETING ON TUESDAY AT 7PM IN ARTESIA Thanks Kishore ( Kevin) Kaul Office US- 562 -865 -2060, 562 -865-2075 Fax US- 562-865-2080 US Cell-562-572-8751 Founder Friends of the South Asian American Communities Inc www.fosaac.com [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.auqmrubab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fosaac.com%2F] Mr GURBAX SINGH BHASIN IS THE EVENT CONVENOR FOR THE FOSAAC AWARD CEREMONIES 2007.THIS CAN BE VIEWED AT BY CLICKING HERE - http://www.newsasia.us/award-add.asp [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=ml4icecab.0.ytfbndcab.q8d6vtbab.30901&ts=S0278&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsasia.us%2Faward-add.asp] THE HOST COMMITTEE MEETING IS SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY AT 7PM, AUGUST 28TH IN THE OFFICE OF FOSAAC IN ARTESIA.THE ADDRESS IS AS FOLLOWS- 18766 PIONEER BL, ARTESIA,CA,90701 ALL ARE WELCOME TO ATTEND AND PARTICIPATE Mr. Gurbax Singh Bhasin (EVENT CONVENOR) CEO, Prego Inc. Mr Dev Prasad Katragada Dr. Prem Sagar Reddy CEO, Prime Healthcare Management Inc. Mr. Hamilton Brewart CEO, Hamilton Insurance Mr. Shiv Grewal Partner, STRADLING YOCCA CARLSON & RAUTH Mr. Rattan Joea CEO, Prime Time Shuttle Inc. Mr. BU Patel Vice- Chairman, Tarsadia Group Mr. Ken Singh CEO, Kenpo Inc. Dr Narendra Grewal Mr Sunder Ramani Ms Nimmi Katragada Captain Silva Mrs Zeba Zubair Mr Ashok Motwani Mrs Nandini Chopra Mr. Ravi Grewal CEO, Dashmesh Enterprises Inc. Dr. Arjun Daluvoy CEO, World Entertainment Media Mr Nataraj Reddy CEO, MSN Solutions Mr Naba Kar CPA Mr Oliver and Pearle Das Mr Paul Govindan Professor Ravindrajan Mr Jagan Yelisetti Dr. Bala President, AAPI Mr. Mukesh Mowji President, AAHOA Dr. Durairaj CEO, First Commerce Bank Mr. Ravi Tilak CEO, Almex Inc. Mr. Hardy Grewal CEO, Subway Franchises LA County Mr. Vinod K Bhindi President, Bhindi Jewellers Mr. Brij M Punj Managing Director, Cherrington Asia Ltd Mr. Ravinder Sethi CEO, JITCO Mr. Imaad Zuberi VP, Transamerica Mr. Arun Puri CEO, Royal Khyber Restaurant Director, Orange County Mr. Krishna Shah Producer, Bollywood- Hollywood Mr. Sampat Kumar,Esq Immigration Mr. Hark Vasa CEO Mr. Rocky Malhotra CEO, SuperMax Mr. Vijay Amritraj CEO, Vijay Amritraj Foundation Mr. Ashok Amritraj CEO, Hydepark Entertainment Mr. Dinesh Gala CEO, Gala Corporation Mr. Jeet Kotru CEO Mrs Veena Malhotra Captain Silva Dr Ramchandra Reddy Mr Vikram and Manju Reddy Mr Gopal Reddy Mr Nadadur Vardhan Mr Mohammad Islam Director, SABAN Mr Jalil Khan President, Caltrans Engineer's Assn Mr Waqar Khan CEO, TV Pakistan Dr Asif Mahmood Mr. Deep Singh CEO, Bombay Palace Restaurant Dr. H S Sahota Cardiologist Professor John Thomas Mr Raj Shah MSI Stone Mr Ray Patel President , Mr Mike Patel Mr AL Patel CEO,Patel Bail Bonds Mr Ranbir Sahani CEO, R3 Mr Harshad Dharod Mr Yogesh Mehta Mr Rashmi Shah Mr Hasmath Malik CEO, Primetime Tours and Travels Mr Deepak Patel Mr Amrit Ghumann Mr. Naresh Solanki CEO, Gardena Super Market Mr. Sant Chatwal CEO, Hampshire Hotel and Resorts Mr. Arun Phadnis CEO, LTI Inc. Dr. Marwah Dentist Mr. Alan Nathan CEO, American Textiles Mr. Harbhajan Singh Samra Mr. Kanishk Nathan Commissioner, City of Artesia Mr. Ajit Mithaiwala CEO, ADI Dr. Krishna Reddy Dentist Mr. Halid VP, Malaysian Airlines Mr. Ranbir Bhai CEO and Founder, YogiBotanicals International,USA Major Gurjeet Singh CEO, Toubro Inc. Mr. Navin Doshi Philanthropist Mr. Santokh Singh CEO, Santokh Singh and Associates Mr. Sanjay Gupta CEO, Plaza Group Mr. Ben Singh CEO, Sir Speedy Mr. Vishnu Choudhury CEO, Infokall Dr. Prabhu Dhalla Mr. Nijar CEO, Nijar Properties Mr. Paresh Shah Esq Immigration Mr. Pravin Mody CEO, GSB Linens Mr. Puneet Nanda CEO, Dr Fresh Mr. Rekhi CEO, R Systems Anne Tahim CPA Arun Srivastava CEO VAS Group LLC Country Coordinator, India Sister Cities International, USA Rajshree Choudhury Bikram Yoga Collge Ms. Pooja Patel Mr. Lex Reddy Mr. Richard Vasquez Mr. Victor Greigo Mr. Jesse Juarez Mr. John Acosta Ms. Mangala Iyer Ms. Preea Hayre Ms. Edna Bali Mrs. Anne Tahim, CPA Mr. Mohan Sinha Mr. Bobby Reddy Palle Ms. Anila Bhasin Mr. Arun Phadnis Mr. Ravi Shanker Thodagam Mr. Nataraj Reddy Mr. Sheeraz Hasan Mr. Peter Burney Mr. Lal Thakarar Mr. Mohammad Islam Mr. Rohit Shukla Ms. Anjani Simh Dr. Jay Shah Mrs. Usha Shah Mr. Gautam Dutta Mr. Jalil Khan Mr. Jay Shah Mr. Ashok Athavale Mr. Sanjay Dalal Mr. Rajiv Srivasatava Ms. Sukhi Singh Ms. Pinky Bhatia Mr. Amit Srivasatava Mr. Abdul Gani Shaikh Mr. Anand Chopra Mr. Swaran Dabgotra Mr. Sam Bhogal Mr. Rattan Pal Singh Punia Ms. Roma Chugani Mr. Jay Narayan Mr. Lalit Acharya Ms. Vazi Okhandiar Mr. Vinay Reddy Keesara Mr. Saurabh Tandon Ms. Smita Vasant Mr. Deep Patel Mr. Arvind Patel Mr. Gani Pola Ms. Saurabhi Agarwal Mr. Vaibhav Joshi Mr. Tim Ms. Ritu Advani Mr. RamGopal Jain Mr. Tushar Rane Mr. Manoj Padte Mr. Greg Hefferman Mr. Eric Simmel Mr. Peter Sterling Mr. Ashwath Narayan Mr. Luke Lobo Mr. VRS Sampat Ms. Vibha Chadha Ms. Reva Khosla Ms. Bhavna Vora Ms. Bobbi Sahani Mr. SPS Kohli Ms. Roma Chugani Ms. Sarita Vasa Ms. Veena Malhotra Ms. Kavita Chugani Mr. Vora Mr. Waqar Khan Mr. Arif Mansuri Capt. 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Pai Mr. Imdad Ali Mrs Kalyani Iyer Mr. Lalit Kapoor Mr. Bhargava Mr. Wallace Williams Dr. Sardesai Mr. Raj Mubarak Mr. John Lopez Mr. Cary Arnold Mr. Zubin Fitter Ms. Perinne Medora Dr. Kailash Dhamija Dr. Vijay Kumar Major Gurjeet Singh (Retd) Mr. Niranjan Patel Mr. Avinash Sankhla Mr. Ashok Dhar Ms. Krishna Roy Mr. Arnold Kaminsky Mr. Inder Sharma Mr. Dinesh Shah Mr. Subash Razdan Mr. Virender Qazi Mr. S Sathyamoorthy Mr. Nagarajan Mr. Rakesh Bedi Dr. Raj Shrotriya Mr. Sasoon Sales Esq Mr. Mohan Singh Mr. Narain Thirumurthy Mr. Mark Reidy Esq Mr. Anshuman Sinha Mr. Amit Ghosh Mr. C S Ramesh Mr. Saiful Mr. Alan Ms. Monalisa Mr. Dipak Surcar Ms. Sumita Batra Ms. Supriya Bharadwaj Mr. Ramji Bhai Patel Dr. Ravindra Mr. Devender Reddy Mr. Haridhar Reddy Mr. Sridhar Reddy Mr. Roger Bhasin Mr. Mike Zee Mr. Mukesh Tyagi Mr. Nagpal Mr. RK Sharma Mr. Shailendra Kothari Mr. Sreekar Ms. Sunita Bannerjee Ms. Priyanka Ved Mehta Mr. Anil Ved Mehta Mr. CL Kaul Mr. PRK Murthy Mr. Reuben Gomez Mr. 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at sarai.net&a=1101795720556 This email was sent to reader-list at sarai.net, by info at kevinkaul.com Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795720556&lang=en&reason=F Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101795720556&lang=en&reason=F Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Friends of the South Asian American Communities | FOSAAC | 11432 South St | #308 | Cerritos | CA | 90703 From info at kevinkaul.com Fri Aug 31 05:24:58 2007 From: info at kevinkaul.com (FOSAAC (KEVIN KAUL)) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Reader-list] MOTHER TERESA IN THE COVER OF TIME MAGAZINE Message-ID: <1101796824327.1101245878128.30901.5.531940A1@scheduler> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 30 August 2007 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Issue: 1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Welcome to Friends of the South Asian American Communities Dear ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Photos [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTfYOPfSqV9Telf6biID1uN6xAY64IYmca9di_f4DEqa3f3RTFwgY_JK8MxPeS3j3o-bLN-wMJiht9QjMaph8tSv_XVwKJipGpUfTzxvpbLeZbnibck_O9XhwvhuRhtuThFc3_nJ7sYchBNVMYOX7JR7PrNhTaYFEA=] * Magazine [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTrpBHtDbSYGzkQ_eSmbUGDm75RHwWAyFjVOIkIbjLKz6Ts6DTVnneRMJ8I2pm8BQqdxtlV4bTj_q9cT_d56LnUHUDocdfiQFqeUhT-ObY3tx_3qFEvqpJzwqI1sQmxPzW0IBkmLSIm2MyQdCjBRKRaTxzLVFBxnzc=] * Specials [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTct-4J7KjYef8LG9ZqpQFtgRmXuUswZG4e2wmrrDtBTGzolKxBfKXDtQ2KyB9GKXo9bUAuCfOn9tZLtIC5QtS4aXRDlkiP9rTaaaYJL3hWL-Gfw3T7cpzF5M5f6yfbqclZeKJ5lijnb15QoZX5M1co-VqY7RjxIJE=] 10 Most Popular Stories [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTMsWF23X1-zX6c2cfdhoWadwZQ_fC7lr5rnl65H1qqE3jiLXN0TcCECRb7So9ieSWO4SJzoqUu97gPht6J9goSuF0gpaKmXHymz9wX5hrw2SAD5uOvfKMe2RQIa6m2V7_P-P_7zqiuCidqch3UKjBX-OqB3_L1pLM=] Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRUEBl6tciR6xDFjmKuKPHhCerwiND8yrvrBfEtq2FGmCIJY8Z2NAGwyusXMAr0DSSwz--nxClwrZJDx-dm-9d7ZuYl5V3a3N0boH2L8xNU_DTJHAub97VzTkWsH52abDvwgxoKlaoJeQihwsuRwLvXuv3QvZbd0oA=] Bettmann / Corbis Mother Teresa in a Calcutta orphanage, 1979. 1. Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTVYqy9M-k5RngjyfDy241dCCgZv_oQG1C8Q_rQWM1TLLnQFR2SwWp-hb-u5mF5mf1E0NLr75glXstWK0LQpq5-jS77QSfYwFXs0dh0Oqo0mQcB-FhMOHW_47B78XMM9vQUMkwWpwZrMYeDos6H7WXexWfzteXrc46slWHOVlkyM7K_3JOR9bnKMQrHQQAC-HhoeGlrET9fcQ==] By David Van Biema She was the embodiment of godliness, but newly published letters show a struggle with doubt that was all too human 2. Why Gonzales Finally Caved [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRFme3nZOD0SDvVO5l2oWL1_-DlOhvyOTEpz_jxWagZuNirw57Jh6S6fRm9x1EXjyfEUIlIRh048X1n-pvYXXZW6vPWiJDI6ITUGiR8V5FnqmU1G0SVXGopGHmvG2h25zplm5ujujQGufegQDNenJ2jJ4ct_jnjHNA1nTBVu4GxG6P6joGpPgHE_i2KB8rxmKBUTCF_cQGXLqotBEkp9Cp2] By Massimo Calabresi The departure of Karl Rove, a key defender, may have had something to do with it. That and the August doldrums 3. What Your Cell Knows About You [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrSpOVIXDsXOoDMFjbIlbo6sG1nAoGTDkU25hMzhsPYaAVosAb_CSKmmepOQgyeqPUdA7n-AtJzBPd9JK_yJ-7qUVazdITXxD-Amow1p4enNBNjSE3uGMhO2zJSeAJkS_coN--dkE4_xvmu_c5Z-I7kFf5xK55b15-B_0iCRMKbxMUZrzJj6jJN8ix-cUAb2Ry_b0ad8g1dUdg==] By Hilary Hylton/Austin Crime-fighting "tinkerers" are figuring out how to get all the inside dope about you from your supposedly trusted gadget 4. What Doctors Don't Say About Obesity [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRGaCFo6SpuirK1iAi7weRNr_-Sa2HKPT5wBIJRLwjwMMzfGLPIv7J5FMQpVV5cmkuL2cPPaMaFz3qVgrV8Nco8ZdE48wt86wQ6QX079pU9fEJSthMUvRHVkqdS350675LJPQjnj7BE1hlK2nWxCUOtXy6mI31uvVnUMX18nBElNGb3DtZ7eg6Hy5ypxEMauwJD7-E97CGEXtmk1-ybSJYD] By Sanjay Gupta, M.D. Doctors hate telling you to lose weight as much as you hate hearing it. But their silence can imperil your health 5. Your House Is Worth Less? Good. [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTNQ7gIyNAVnoEmEnhEf1rJvRDKe_fNkNgxzuw5qlrtUiKfKCCIilSwNzXFnjy35qoo19cAXKt1-H5YTHwihq2qecbpRhHsbM__V4MgWUkOoRDAxusavrYcnH25d4ynbiOn3c7sxWREOuQmOWgNtZfgbeQ8KoUp6TolUkK8S8UMj-VwswaRXcdqQd_HByhSZu3kb9HdfdA8ALl9ptPRjRgK] By Michal Kinsley We're happier when prices are going up but healthier when they're going down 6. Will Dean's War on Florida Backfire? [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrQoyKI8aojHOWOEh-PjHVXqz-8TxB4CubYq2kvcjxrCQlw73qpW8XQ72WcVVumEk35_W2n_nnVjlhCHP1Ujtc_atZ7yhC8-omzrt1qCKF3Lm9lGNx0ZWtbh-Dl1uMwHqZwCP2e4YAQRP5ThH281t9QlXqfJo3s3KR0ZgUVqI9zaPNag1yxf-7AUBACfm84qKbyk-yYbQw3JKn33Q1LHcQcB] By Tim Padgett/Miami Viewpoint: The DNC chairman's efforts to punish state Dems for an early primary could hurt the party when it counts most 7. Are We Failing Our Geniuses? [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRHJfOxgkLMEN02gb2MfZXHl_xDPfRMNeqTlUgk9yF8FhauAnxiY5xRBMM62OjnSrkQYvS5tMLeXXnbz5kJAOzUo-tVchrHAfjS5tlWkN4Af5PoYZ4oxj2urwukFLO2t8aNsE9BMsafggCEp0kMV4RfMyyvmCr8GHvEHOwyMLUCQXm_awqnnws4Kw6c00ewwoVgG_addvqV39ypeirbpZmv] By John Cloud In U.S. schools, the highest achievers are too often challenged the least. Why that's hurting America - and how to fix it 8. Behind Giuliani's Tough Talk [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTCTRxvDDo5KWw1c3xhf6hM3GsMOLP1nS8vyZ-yrCGOWCvGe3fTPhr8X9KwYlZTN_TrYsr9TwrYJTbc6jd0MSdN4K0J4J8c9OZShnHDUqth4yCCJycJF2-CpiwV3fVNWN-DvJbxkr2TNcHKPObqyh8nR0e4w6Zf1DTtUDP9hillnK4HbOzuCTV-YVRdVlnnNICDuRFhN0jofQ==] By Amanda Ripley He has presented himself as the candidate who knows best how to fight terror. But a look at his record as New York City mayor shows gaping weaknesses 9. Study: Why Girls Like Pink [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTKh2EF8eUmetwf7VxPwct2TaYU9LSgLEJyBqoZDVjjYjP2XQJqeYxt6I5kGubbJpjl5bxjB9MiqMtVrOBr7YARj-wnjKf2MWBhkRoSfldjKPGFNKw7PVcbGPdmZBl3zyRG5K1KYtaFQWKvC0otS1R8Ex6UAr31ge6axxChM5LUAFTc057yBOu288FCDjAg8nKEN9bUow5k9g==] By Coco Masters Itâ?(TM)s not an artifact of marketing. A new study says girls may be hard-wired to prefer pink shades [EM] and boys, blue 10. The Hassles of Having Lucy in Houston [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrSxtg6MFNhE-gT3rk0a3BtU938m1QY_dj8gyqPgMcoqkRaFjQdQzMMHHmcWnwJxakDJRQzejOLbVe8DIADITr2SfFr2NoUSLIg5ZO_KueWsxDBcIsl0WabrIZ11fDEj9_GZIV6mNJOZTaOyvpGfUZIAOHItFaOHc3MtrI7yUR8qPAp7BJU30u0uKcGWe9CeuoNcxALM8bTSgg==] By Andrea Dorfman A fabled fossil goes on view for the first time in decades [EM] and ignites a controversy Pictures of the Week [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrQ-6qM-TeE2GPVLn-kD-FjQDSjDkwKzC0j-pizAbEuF7vqC-Ja5a-Rwozdh9mBv6C5Z8YqnjpSm5IXf3Qaat7EItmEQZ6YQrPYgYYgctjRxBLcU5npaKh4gvRRO5U4bfHdkRRVXwABsATKobU8GxjYe6UE9DsThLqk=] Pictures of the Week [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrQ3crekaIVr1PBH51oSaVmyN1ClcyPh9zR9R-WGc7ewH4WjiRHcwmDrWgdzQCJMQcC_Gr7wGrybRtDEQXgsTDEbUhkvhl4Gkaw6ajQ2cYjVaIvNex2rjgiQbxSwl8AtcDLE1jFHm0gwBrqb45V86iCEu4igO0keA0Y=] August 17 - August 23 [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRPY_ojFQSle1sxhOWupOUM8P1j_wKjyuCq8Q6hK4vJEA-x6kZZr0zkod3OgTihGWz1oXH6nsiHTdF8k24CYD_Z2iRect5WbdyjNr_xQ2JXPo6NJz0MUsANnrX45VuZVB6rDKIS-1UoOopTaC31avm9ZRBrDP7oy3M=] Photographed from the Space Shuttle Endeavour, Hurricane Dean swirls near Jamaica carrying sustained winds of 150 mph. ADVERTISEMENT Weekly Features [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTlYdfL29swWrthfGeowt38OoBFn2hTIRil-Xozh--m2qU1Q4_NfjEro9_WcI1ZoYTtNZnQne8jr_OxMaqPWiBdzMs9n3tF4Soeb6AjgjEo1D76AKXJIJNqT8lwQ9Jpst1sJES1r8JkfqPpExhr39khDQRt4n9GtCg=] Weekly Features [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRpaejqcvUrXqRPAoPEDFzQNPs6aGieiNJxoVg10u3KUqSoZBkq-_uspy_K_YieXnEVne54-8D-utLaCw8ov8T-lLCV-ei72DNaIeVh8XUaz7GimmtoqpnhBYinP7FedN1476il9BpJOILzSAJugydqJHdt82br4JI=] Cartoons of the Week [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrQk0p2xA_Kuedb_g_iDm3pQi5P-eqr_r4oJtRBN79S7NHOw3Zy8Ptu1TEORqXCoMviST9vJVhqTO5V1KiTNY2wK1fkx32eMrDG0kQ_nfW_DCmqQS28_WJPTYnTS9mA3j0-NFx3ovpBzBpEHoVmTjMDuZburkx6sUQw=] * Photo Essays [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrSwmuvVP_bcMLVTwAIc61uqfGwGW_qSSLjA-Gfc9uyzFwZ8pNxczBm1hNBUg3zVdtxQjDk3kMwMgqEkSeokBUyDNMXZ8B4T-2zNhwj3ZxYBmWm938uCiZrSFfF1OaNFU9_uNcmHun1Vo-Y_vzAQ5qEQmaylwVNDW-M=] * Quotes of the Day [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTdXWKIdrzcTtLcY4Oxsjo4P5THySg2-icxWT6Vi3GaGH7CzWQ_gQ42WQ7Nb9cr3K9CUjNTxywi0StTojG7aEApp5FKrsEGuodv3ZpXapQa8c9DVkwpPEQEbHRGvvpFY6q90QfzBEH77LDNeTSREDbPluAIgn3BdJ4=] * Special Reports [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTmcn8jjy17M_OnYETpu6sncC5BXJ41peSaRtD2xYElAyDM5o4qCz05VW8J7lrtNhBGiuuAYfCO5nC51HxEWt4mmH2DG3neaRYG0dJiQxMLwiUjoqtuvda_EWLRnjhg2wSxBWljtJSZcAih5Dkd0g9rZRpDjhXegok=] * TIME Blogs [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTRaZQgO6GF8hE8EZP2T5PkG2B_Ph20bTSBbz3V_OMjTUFHsyJtdGPpXH5tMSuHGJt4pTE9CrPn0SRr9KcFs20mujXazRfppsvnwwQSescRaAxbeFDlos8naWtYdvBw-DjtCVGTioENB74WSBicxNyvOnQ9LLvl8FQ=] In This Week's Issue [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrThqtmDPIxbE4pLaJlrnLWJH9VXQ4sFQhU5y3W5qd0p3aRR1bBTphMMq9ydeMQ1ptPIRkN1xBzOyTkjla83YvI4AsSA7YOsR3SSM7kTmespPCRfRJwseDkRp4EitmTkN-UXDdiKywimEK7gJoeWrw9GYv6476BWYew=] Current Time.com Cover [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTwLtKDhp8-jmXTBScJ0E-miFQqMQOEdQZp-AsIKVQM0tgkMeBFW-l2sp_4xKk7hXxwPMaZGFHOwulxQ0ITaaHkbHKSjPIGzVMeCHKllMKh3aho-PJcrHercaXSHe8fjOkKIK17u49J82FQLsiF7C-tAq-FDOdSZO4=] Table of Contents [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrR8QMS2XmPcimjl21T7g-LY8a4Yk_GFFFV3FZcUHKOxY3w3pkmSFb5a9MLg9ADyMRpAMCZI5ct5vYj_z3K9DjIY4-TH0cfz5UXqoP7cv7K9ur_-I7JWSBwnW4bwk3ODoSe1TnW2KC7WAWZmGW-jK-8WpNBOxWjiBzw=] * Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrR2UL8wzKS5Zh8YkvgpQMk09jd84oLtU1dgn3iOORGr0Qz66NmOwhb_M-w0lPOD6X--ykqgFTBwykG2sBegarPoo1cleyFw_beVPUCVoSvC10zihx2Up-Zzar9tt1NeidiDiSbRMRKY-t2V7wgqSHEaGnXPUfigYag=] * Behind Giuliani's Tough Talk [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrRfYIHGjyJgR9-4bejOVjCk_6g-_WxuQbc2N8i7mQ3NiKGXi9TqAKrDiTdpF-Jd6DEWH62Bdoomy7Im5dTcZSIRnCZ3185PfFhZfAWTYuj4V8sxnlgnKuBV61cqhDiJ3vcSSSLOEOsaGDPYHUb7nGBp0KT0OpACZrw=] * Pakistan's New Odd Couple? 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[http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTNVff6GrUkRBN_IS9TV84NFESzM1tN0UOal6oeF45uMtaPGJqtcEKJzIxTOe5PMZVE0OGLI_DYzqM3RC75u9SsZQQd16N3DVxcsH4sw7nDDEHLHNip7BRLJq-TKtDe2q7LLRMeMjLUrvkmpqX-Ys7xVGRLkLwtgv0=] * The Wild World of Animal Prostheses [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrT1BCkdnyBhuvMQjXrGvAo8lVHjlSc2UyQ02VK-4yHd4da2BPK_gqlLwYWCWh718M6A7X9R_oq_b2q7sKHZbfdcy-f8UQe9_anFU0WTl3wKU8VGQ17bHgQPPib0ORNwpQg7l2BcgTVl3Wuv5Vp3KVDuUJq5j6jpBLw=] * 10 Questions. [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrTHC18--OrwvKa3XJqpR605J_ImLkXTbZIHOTwMr9BORX-LcdAL9C-jK309iHPbGWixBenar37ILSuTHanc-R7_AdICQ3w57Z0kgkw3Kuo2W2RWhlgZgz3BviIxATlSqV-HUf8SD8zLy6PFnt6CznobzJlD-ahMCcg=] Weekly Image [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001HiHdQkuUZrSmaBuL_WNK8kGAh3kVHdTfI2u7tgtgTxXlc6Pa6NbfIfXzlbKlXn5rTRVwGxz-8JK2sZnWgJD8lMDP8RFw-yI-RSZb3ygA9Zhhx55c58NmIkI8pbdtObnWOrFB6OZXDkNxpVJunrbfXpew7DQ2o6GtOizRjuSjSLw=] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kevin Kaul Friends of the South Asian American Communities 562-572-8751 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forward email http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1101245878128&ea=reader-list at sarai.net&a=1101796824327 This email was sent to reader-list at sarai.net, by info at kevinkaul.com Update Profile/Email Address http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101796824327&lang=en&reason=F Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM) http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101245878128&se=30901&t=1101796824327&lang=en&reason=F Privacy Policy: http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Email Marketing by Constant Contact(R) www.constantcontact.com Friends of the South Asian American Communities | FOSAAC | 11432 South St | #308 | Cerritos | CA | 90703 From rituparna.ghosh at timesgroup.com Fri Aug 31 13:17:27 2007 From: rituparna.ghosh at timesgroup.com (rituparna ghosh) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:17:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Research on Indian students abroad (Australia in Message-ID: <20070831074846.5C2ADB32A5@smtp2.timesgroup.com> Hi. I am looking for an email address for Michiel Baas. Could anyone help me please? I am a journalist working for Times Now. It is slightly urgent. Thanks and Regards, Rituparna Ghosh TIMES NOW Bennett, Coleman & Co and Reuters Service Times Global Broadcasting Co. Ltd. Sriram Centre for Art and Culture 3rd Floor, 4 Safdar Hashmi Marg New Delhi - 110001 India Tel: +91-11-23310000 Ext: 327 Mobile: +91-9810602108 Fax: +91-11-23327777 www.timesnow.tv "Frustrated with India's political system? Choose exactly the leader you want, or nominate yourself in the largest search for India's future leaders. Cast your vote on http://www.lead.timesofindia.com" Disclaimer: "The information in this e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete the message and any attachments and notify the sender of misdelivery. Any use or disclosure of the contents of either is unauthorised and may be unlawful. All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them, with requisite authority, to be those of the specific TIMES GROUP company." From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Aug 31 16:22:09 2007 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:52:09 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_neEX_-_September?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_news_=26_deadlines?= Message-ID: <20070831125209.676CC94B.C74B1E7C@192.168.0.3> netEX: calls, deadlines & news September 2007 ------------------------------------- [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne newsletter contents 1. calls & deadlines 09 Calls: September deadlines external 05 Calls: ongoing external 2. network news ------------------------------------- 1. Calls & deadlines ---> [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne www.nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------------ September deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 30 September Share Prize & Festival 2008 Turin/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=120 30 September Torun Film Fest 2007 (Poland) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=119 30 September Common Grounds 2008 - digital images http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=100 21 September Digital Fringe Festival Melbourne/Australia http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=133 30 September V International Folm Festival Ofensiva Wroclaw/Poland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=117 21 September SUPERFAN - Sport and art - by Artengine/Canada http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=127 14 September Video show Art Gallery of York University Toronto/Ca http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=124 1 September Int. Bilbao Doc & Shortfilm Festival http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=101 1 September 1st European Machinima Festival Leichester/UK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=129 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external ----------------------------------------------- Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=15 Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=21 Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=93 Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=94 Project: Repetion as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=95 ------------------------------------------ more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ------------------------------------------ 2. network news ------------------------------------------ a) The Network is proud to announce NewMediaFest2007 - www.newmediafest.org the 1st common festival of The Network which will be launched on 1 November 2007 simultaneously online and offline, including the latest project competitions of JavaMuseum - Forum for Internet Technology in Contemporary Art CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival VideoChannel - video project environments SoundLAB - sonic art project environments Cinematheque - streaming media project environments More details on http://www.newmediafest.org/blog/?p=15 b) The Network will launch on the occasion of NewMediaFest2007 in November also the new sites of JIP - JavaMuseum Interview Project --> jip.javamuseum.org VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project--> vip.newmediafest.org SIP - SoundLAB Interview Project--->sip.newmediafest.org as well as the new magazine publishing environment netMAX - http://max.nmartproject.net and the updated AND - Artist Network Database - and.nmartproject.net c) Agricola de Cologne's shortfilm Truth - Paradise Found http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=16 received the prize for the best experimental film on 3rd International Shortfilm Festival Budapest www.busho.hu - 2-7 August 2007 More Agricola de Cologne September news on http://www.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog/?p=110 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/ # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # NetEx - networked experiences http://netex.nmartproject.net is a free information service powered by The Network [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for Art and New Media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements