From ravikant at sarai.net Thu Nov 3 14:51:04 2005 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:51:04 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] Re: [PPHP] [Fwd: making of a bollywood song] In-Reply-To: <4368B33C.8090807@sarai.net> References: <4368B33C.8090807@sarai.net> Message-ID: <200511031451.05096.ravikant@sarai.net> Thanks Iram for posting the report on the programme. I also saw it something like 10 days back. Gulzar has a different take on the song, elaborated in a filmfare column he has been writing around his songs. Another important thing about this song is that it is a mix of so many song-forms, Qawwali, with that special intonation and facial expression, associated with both transvestites as well as qawwals) and UP+Bihar style mujra = dandiya and other things that you mention. This kind of mixing of forms has always been a feature of songs in bollywood, but this song achieves a degree of perfection. cheers ravikant --- http://www.filmfare.com/articleshow/msid-1224609,curpg-1.cms The auto rickshaws are playing my song This month, I’d like to live in the present for a change. So many people are coming up to me with comments about Bunty Aur Babli’s songs that I thought, why not talk about it this month? In any case, going into a flashback is an old habit of mine; we can get into the past any time. Incidentally, Bunty Aur Babli is my first film with Yash Raj Films. Yashji had once told me his boys wanted me to do something for them. Then, Sanjeev Kohli, who works with them, called me up to talk about Shaad’s (Ali) project. I’d written the songs and dialogue of Saathiya for Shaad, and he wanted me to write the songs for this film too. I’m sure he must have told Yashji about it and mere khayal se, Yashji mera naam disapprove to nahin hi karenge. I’ve shared some great poetry sessions with him on our tour to Moscow. What’s interesting about Bunty Aur Babli is that for this film, I’ve departed from my usual style of writing. Here, I give full marks to Shaad. If you notice, the songs have not been picturised like the usual Hindi film songs; they’ve been shot like musical sequences. All through Shaad kept me totally involved with the characters, the dialogue and the scenes. In fact, he could narrate the script scene-wise to me from any point. Now, it’s established early on in the film that Babli belongs to a Punjabi family. She speaks Hindi with a smattering of Punjabi and English. Naturally, she will sing the same way. That’s why I had a sprinkling of Punjabi and English words in Dhadak dhadak dhuan udaye re, siti bajae re. So, when she says khasama nu khaye, sara jahan you know it’s a Punjabi girl singing. When she sings Taron mein jeena veena easy nahin, you know this is how she talks in real life too. So Babli’s character graph will show that the language she uses in her dialogue and her songs is the same. Which I think is the highlight of the characterisation. Now, Bunty is from Kanpur and speaks the UP dialect. So I gave him lines and phrases very typical to Kanpur. After I’d penned the Dhadak dhadak song, Vikas Chopra from Sa Re Ga Ma-HMV accosted me one day and in a tone that said I’d been caught cheating, he demanded, “How did you think of this line, Aisa koi saga nahin jise humne thuga nahin.” I told him, “It’s on the signboard of a sweet shop called Guddu Ke Laddoo in Kanpur.” His expression softened instantly and he confessed, “I’m from Kanpur and this is a famous line out there. That’s why I was wondering how you got it!” I’ve also been asked by many, who is this Ramchandre, whom both Rani and Abhishek call out to in Dhadak dhadak. My answer is, nobody! It’s just a name I threw in to rhyme with the line that ends Aye aye! It is a common name up North. But in this country you can’t be sure just how people will react, and (Yash Raj producer) Aditya Chopra was slightly apprehensive that people would mistake it for Shri Ramchandra. I told him it was just a name and I could just as well have made it Damu Kenkre (who happens to be my friend and a theatre actor). I assured him nothing untoward would happen and to make doubly sure, we made it Oye Ramchandre. The one situation in the movie which allowed me to write in my usual style, is when Bunty and Babli fall in love. When I got this one, I rubbed my hands in glee and said, “Ab meri baari aayi.” And the result was Dekhna mere sar se aasman ud gaya hai, dekhna is zameen ke sire khul gayein hain kahin se. I really let my imagination fly when I wrote Chaand se ho kar sadak jaati hai, usi pe apna makaan hoga. But the most interesting moment, which I would call a victory for the director and music composers and actors, came when the characters meet at a roadside adda to sing Kajrare, kajrare tere kare kare naina. When I wrote it, I had an inkling the song would work. I’d told Shaad, “Dekho bhai, yeh khatra hai ki yeh gana hit ho jayega.” The credit for it goes to the composers Shankar, Ehsaan and Loy. They’ve done a marvelous job with the music of the film and Kajrare in particular. When it’s a song sung on the roadside, you have to write poetry with a different flavour altogether, similar to that you’d find on the backs of trucks and lorries. So you have lines like, Aisi nazar se dekha us zaalim ne chonk kar, humne kaleja rakh diya chaku ki nok par. I loved the song and Shaad was very keen on it, though not everyone was, initially. But he stuck to his script and I admire him for that. That’s what I like about these young directors; they know what they want. And I’m happy that I can jog with them. Working with young people gives you a different high altogether. It gives me pleasure and satisfaction to know that I can still race with them. To me the highlight of Bunty Aur Babli’s songs is that they reflect Bunty and Babli’s energy. I believe they’re a big hit, especially with autorickshaws. For me, that’s the best yardstick by which to measure the success of a song. I remember when Maachis had just released and my daughter Meghna and I were sitting on my balcony, which overlooks the Pali Hill road. An auto rickshaw passed by with the song Chapa chapa charkha chale blaring from it. And Meghna got so excited. Then another auto rickshaw passed by, with the same song playing. And there were many, many more of them. It was the same with Chhaiyan chhaiyan. These days I hear a lot of Kajrare from the auto rickshaws that pass by Pali Hill Road! Lyrics of Kajrare Kajrare Aisi nazar se dekha us zaalim ne chonk kar Humne kaleja rakh diya chaku ki nok par Wah wah, kamal ho gaya, woh raita phail gaya Mera chain vain sab ujda, zaalim nazar hata le Barbaad ho rahe hai ji Tere apne shaher wale Mera chain vain sab ujda zaalim nazar hata le Meri angdai na tute tu aaja Kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho mere naina mere naina mere naina judwa naina Kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Surme se likhe tere vaade, aankhon ki zubani aate hain Mere rumalo pe lab tere, band ke nishani jaate hain Ho teri baaton mein qimam ki khusbu hain Ho tera aana bhi garmiyon ki lu hain Aaja tute na tute na angdai Ho meri angdai na tute tuu aaja Kajrare kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho mere naina mere naina mere naina mein chupke rehna Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Aankhein bhi kamal karti hain Personal se sawal kartin hain Palkon ko uthati bhi nahi Parde ka khayal karti hain Ho mera gum to kisise bhi chupta nahi Dard hota hain dard jab chubhta nahi Aaja tute na tute na angdai Ho meri angdai na tute tu aaja Kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho tere naina tere naina humein daste hain tere naina Ho kajrare kajrare mere kare kare naina Woh tujhse milna purani dilli mein Chod aaye nishani Dilli mein Balli Maraan se Daribe talak Teri meri kahani Dilli mein Kaali kamli wale ko yaad karke Tere kale kale naino ki kasam khate hain Tere kale kale naino ki balanye le loon Tere kale kale naino ko duwaye de loon Meri jaan udaas hain hothon pe pyaas hain Aaja re aaja re aaja re Ho teri baaton mein qimam ki khushu hai Ho tera aana bhi garmiyon ki lu hai Ho meri angdai na tute tu aaja Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Ho tere naina tere naina tere naina judwa tere naina Ho tere naina tere naina tere nainon mein chupke rehna Ho kajrare kajrare tere kare kare naina Kare kare naina kajrare kajrare mere kare kare naina On Wednesday 02 Nov 2005 6:08 pm, Jeebesh Bagchi wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: making of a bollywood song > Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:51:44 +0530 > From: Iram Ghufran > To: Jeebesh Bagchi , bhagwati at sarai.net > CC: iram at sarai.net > > > Dear comrades, > > I saw a special feature on NDTV last night on the popular song, 'kajra > re kajra re' from the film, Bunty Aur Babli. Basically I was sitting > vella at around 11ish and that a television is now available at all > hours courtesy a new, very co-operative flatmate brought me with this > mediated contact with a research interest of Sarai – particularly your > research, Bhagwati. > > It was a 20 min programme on the making and success of 'kajra re'. Being > a great fan of the song myself I was all ears but no camera till very > late into the feature, unfortunately. Little did I know, when it began, > how important a feature story it was... > > I'll call the first half of the programme: > > The Making of a Bollywood Song – A Meta Narrative > > > * > > The anchor/ reporter had done extensive interviews with the team > of 'kajra re' and mentions the names of those he couldn't meet. > The kajra re team and what I found interesting in the report: > > > Producer – Aditya Chopra > > Film Director – Shad Ali Sehgal > > These two thought up the concept. The song was a last minute entry and > (this is gossip) that Aditya Chopra was sure that the film will be a > super flop and needed some element in the film that would pull in the > initial crowds and then this song was thought of. It is actually aditya > Chopra who directed the song. Shad Ali was not even present on the sets! > But back to the feature... > > Music Directors – Shankar, Ehsaan, Loy, who said that they knew that the > song will be popular but never imagined that it would be such a hit. I > am always amazed by how the media industry works with this constant > unsurety! They knew that the song was good but goodness is not a > criteria for a song to be a success. Then what is? > > Choregrapher - > > Art Director – Shramishtha Roy > > Singers – Alisha, who was paid only 15, 000 rupees for the song + other > mainstream star voices. Alisha couldn't sing live! It's just the > wonderful technology that's made her sound wonderful > > The Subaltern Singer – This was a very standard interview with the > singer who lends the qawwali voice to the song. I forget his name now > but this young man had gone to Mumbai in 2000- 01 and as the anchor > said, he was 'struggling in the industry to become a singer' . Reminded > me of Mohd Niaz! > > Lyricist – Gulzar, who said that 'ye gana bason (bus) aur truckon > (truck) ke peeche se utara gaya hai' or something to that effect > > > The second half of the programme can be unimaginatively called 'The Spread' > > The anchor touched on the following ways through which the song became > popular and which also in a way reflect the popularity of the song. > > * > > DJ s were a crucial element. The song was played in clubs, at parties > > * > > The Remix. This DJ in the interview said that he normally takes 1 > day to remix a song but 'kajra re' took 7 days. Possibly he was > exaggerating but what I see as important was that remix was a well > thought out strategy by the producers. > > > * > > Film makers made the song accessible to mobile phone users. The > song, I think, could be sent from one cell to another - audio - > video both. > > * > > The song could be downloaded from the internet > > * > > The song is popular with navratri/ garba/ dandiya teams etc > > * > > The vox pop – a CD shop owner said that the song is so popular > that by now there are 10 ' mata ne bulaya' (he actually took > another name but I don't remember it right now) versions > > I know that what I am saying is old territory as far as research on this > goes but why I am writing about this feature is because it was a very > strange feeling to see all this together in one 20 min programme, which > is non prime time and and is probably a 'in stock' story kept for a > rainy day! > There was Mohd Niaz, texts from autos and trucks finding there way in a > film song, There was circulation through mobile phones and downloads > from the internet, there were garba and dandiya practices on the song as > many future singers got ready for competition, there was the Cd shop - > owner who predicts more market success of the song because 10 - 'mata' > versions have been made, and there was legal remix being produced almost > immediately after the songs release. And all this was said and done > without using the words - legality, illegality, grey zones - in a very > matter of fact tone . > > By the way there is a 'kajra re' paan also. The feature team could be > reached via sms. I wrote, but got no reply :-( > > Cheers > > Iram > > > > ________________________________________An Internal Sarai List for > Collaborative Urban Research https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/pphp From ravikant at sarai.net Sat Nov 5 13:56:45 2005 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:56:45 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] Re: [PPHP] [Fwd: making of a bollywood song] In-Reply-To: <087c0551defb68ad34e0350e2f7af299@sarai.net> References: <4368B33C.8090807@sarai.net> <200511031451.05096.ravikant@sarai.net> <087c0551defb68ad34e0350e2f7af299@sarai.net> Message-ID: <200511051356.45234.ravikant@sarai.net> Dear Smriti, I agree with you - the remixed version is horrible and thanks for pointing out the source for the remix. So far the remix is an omnibus genre, we would need somebody to study remixes very closely and classify them. The curious thing is that film songs were potboilers in their own right - borrowing things ecclectically from any source and mixing tunes, words, etc. any which way. Of course, the smarter ones sounded good as well, just as a very smart remix of teri rah chalte chalte...from Pakeeza sounds good. But this is a rare instance. I can name only a couple more that I like. But before I sound like a purist, remixes are also recycled desires for a new age. The sexual mores of self/socially/institutionally censored hindi films of earlier eras must be looking awfully inadequate and dated to the new listeners - viewers, actually - for remix is nothing if not also produced with visual offerings. They are also filling the gap between what the song always said(or just promised?) and what the song could never show. Hence new itemization of old songs. Interstingly, the legal remix of kajrare does not change the visuals - because perhaps it didn't need to. cheers ravikant On Thursday 03 Nov 2005 10:14 pm, smriti at sarai.net wrote: > By chance today I heard the remix of 'kajra re' on FM. The tempo is about > double, and there are drum machines, bass and wolf whistles. To me this > version has lost a bit of the lyricism, definitely. > Then I happened to switch stations and heard, immediately after the 'kajra > re' remix, an '80s 'angrezi' classic, Wham's "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go", > sung by (a then young and beautiful) George Michael...the tempo was > exactly the same as 'kajra re' remixed, in the sense of the way the > listening body receives the beat. One just glided from the 'hindi' > experience to the 'angrezi' without effort. > What does this sort of levelling actually mean, aesthetically? How is it > processed? Is genre transcended, or parodied? > From ravikant at sarai.net Mon Nov 7 14:40:45 2005 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:40:45 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] kya khayal hai Message-ID: <200511071440.45084.ravikant@sarai.net> kya hindi mein gender trouble ko kam kar diya jaye? Hariram Pansari ka to yahi khayal hai. ravikant Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 03:53:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [hindi] Re: Subject: a question in HIndi/Urdu - लिंग वचन की समस्या संस्कृत का नपुंसक (क्लीव) लिंग हिन्दी व्याकरण में शामिल नहीं किए जाने से सारी समस्या उपजी है। और फिर अन्य भाषाओं में (यथा - अंग्रेजी, ओड़िआ, तेलुगु आदि..) में लिंग, वचन का क्रिया पर प्रभाव नहीं पड़ता, हिन्दी में लिंग व वचन के अनुसार क्रिया में आ,ई, ए, प्रत्यय लगने से हिन्दी काफी कठिन बन गई है। जैसे अंग्रेजी में Ram is going Sita is going Men are going हर कहीं going है. किन्तु हिन्दी में राम जा रहा है। सीता जा रही है। लोग जा रहे हैं। यहाँ क्रियापद रहा, रही, रहे के साथ बदल जाते है। इस समस्या का समाधान हिन्दी को सरल बनाने के लिए आवश्यक है। इस दृष्टि से बिहार की ग्रामीण भाषा का प्रयोग देखिए जो सही समाधान लगता है-- राम जात है। राम खावत है। सीता जात है। सीता खावत है। लोग जात है। लोग खावत है। उपरोक्त वाक्यों में क्रिया में से "आ", "ई", "ए" का प्रत्यय गायब है। और समस्या का समाधान स्वतः मिल गया है। कहीं कोई अर्थ में अन्तर भी नहीं प्रकट होता। अन्तर्राष्ट्रीय क्षेत्र में हिन्दी के प्रचार प्रचार में ऐसा सरल प्रयोग शायद काफी मदद कर सकता है। हिन्दी-तर भाषियों को हिन्दी सीखना काफी कठिन लगता है। जिंदगीभर सीखते रहने पर भी उनसे लिंग व वचन की गलतियाँ होती ही रहती हैं। फोरम से विद्वान कृपया इस पर विचार करें और सरल समाधान हेतु कोई ठोस कार्यवाही करें। निर्जीव पदार्थों को भी पुलिंग या स्त्रीलिंग मानना कितना हास्यास्पद लगता है। जैसे चीनी स्त्रीलिंग मानी जाती है तो शक्कर पुलिंग। किसी ने एक बार पूछा था -- "टाइपराइटर स्त्रीलिंग होगा या पुलिंग?" इसका जबाब दिया गया -- "अरे, इसके ऊपर तो कवर लगा हुआ है, कृपया उतार कर देख लीजिए।" हिन्दी के विद्वानों से अनुरोध है कि वे कृपया गम्भीरता के साथ वैज्ञानिक रुख से विचार करें कि क्या सत्य एवं सही तथा वैज्ञानिक तर्कसंगतता के अनुसरण में लिए कुछ सुधार अपनाने नहीं चाहिए? क्या कूपमण्डूक की तरह पड़े रहकर अन्धानुकरण ही करते रहना चाहिए? या तो हिन्दी में भी संस्कृत की तरह क्लीव लिंग शामिल किया जाए अन्यथा कम से कम क्रिया में लगने वाले लिंग वचन के प्रतीक प्रत्ययों का प्रयोग धीरे धीरे हटा लेना चाहिए। भाषा में परिवर्तन समय की मांग के अनुसार धीरे धीरे स्वतः हो जाते हैं। किसी संगठन, किसी सरकार, किसी नेता, किसी नियम कानून की कोई आवश्यकता नहीं है। आज वह समय आ गया है। इण्टरनेट एवं विज्ञान के इस युग में तर्क और विज्ञानसम्मत हिन्दी हेतु कुछ सरल प्रयोग की शुरूआत करने हेतु विद्वानों की राय एवं विचारों का आह्वान करता हूँ। सादर। हरिराम पन्सारी > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:52:20 -0400 > From: "Laxmi Gupta" > Subject: RE: Re: Subject: a question in HIndi/Urdu > > > > विनय जी, > > > > मैंने लोगों को "दही > खट्टी है" कहते हुये > सुना है। इसी तरह से > आलू को कुछ लोग > पुल्लिंग समझते हैं > और कुछ स्त्रीलिंग। > अगर आप बिहार के > लोगों से बात करें, > खास करके जिनकी > मातृभाषा मैथिली है > तो आपको पता लगेगा कि > gender का कितना confusion खुद > हिंदीभाषियों में > है। _ From ravikant at sarai.net Mon Nov 21 15:25:32 2005 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:25:32 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] Fwd: masijeevi Message-ID: <200511211525.32246.ravikant@sarai.net> विजेन्दर चौहान के पुराने ब्लॉग में मसले थे, बदला हुआ पता नोट करें. रविकान्त friends, Asha hai maze mein hain. Jaisa ki kuchh ko vidit hai ki mere pichhle blog (http://shabdashilp.blogspot.com/) mein na jaane kya pareshani thi ki mein na to post kar pa raha tha na comments) matlab blog somehow defunct ho gaya tha. Lihaza ek naya blog shuru kar raha hun yeh hai (http://masijeevi.blogspot.com/). Kripya apne smritansh mein ise sthaan dein. shukriya vijender From ravikant at sarai.net Mon Nov 21 16:35:42 2005 From: ravikant at sarai.net (Ravikant) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:35:42 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] naya shabd Message-ID: <200511211635.42729.ravikant@sarai.net> आज एक नया अनुवाद किया हमने. अंग्रेज़ी का शब्द है स्टैंडबाय - जिसका मतलब हमने लिखा 'ठाढ़े रहियो'. संदर्भ, पकीज़ा. कैसा लगा? रविकान्त From chauhan.vijender at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 19:55:52 2005 From: chauhan.vijender at gmail.com (Vijender chauhan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:55:52 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] naya shabd In-Reply-To: <200511211635.42729.ravikant@sarai.net> References: <200511211635.42729.ravikant@sarai.net> Message-ID: <8bdde4540511220625i56331178nabdb67ddc318066b@mail.gmail.com> जमता है भई।। जमता है। साधुवाद On 11/21/05, Ravikant wrote: > आज एक नया अनुवाद किया हमने. अंग्रेज़ी का शब्द है स्टैंडबाय - जिसका मतलब हमने लिखा 'ठाढ़े > रहियो'. संदर्भ, पकीज़ा. कैसा लगा? > > रविकान्त > > _______________________________________________ > Deewan mailing list > Deewan at mail.sarai.net > http://mail.sarai.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/deewan > > > From chauhan.vijender at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 21:11:04 2005 From: chauhan.vijender at gmail.com (Vijender chauhan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:11:04 +0530 Subject: [Deewan] =?utf-8?b?4KSX4KWC4KSX4KSy4KWALeCkheCksOCljeCkpSDgpJU=?= =?utf-8?b?4KS+IOCkheCksOCljeCkpQ==?= Message-ID: <8bdde4540511220741q67c86501k9ec514224295e381@mail.gmail.com> मित्रो, दुनिया की गेंद हमारे माउस के इशारे पर घूमती है, दूर और पास होती है। आभासी दुनिया, वास्‍तविक दुनिया के इतना पास कभी नहीं आई थी। हिमालय की खूबसूरत पर्वत श्रृंखलाएं, गंगा-यमुना के मनोहारी उदगम स्‍थल, गोविंदसागर का विस्‍तार और हमारे अपने बहाई मंदिर यानि 'लोटस टेंपल' का आसमानी चित्र इन सबसे गुजरना एक आजाद करने वाला अनुभव है।इस प्रसंग में जिन तस्‍वीरों की बात मैं कर रहा हूँ वे हैं गूगल-अर्थ द्वारा इंटरनेट पर उपलब्‍ध कराई मुफ्त उपग्रह तस्‍वीरें। उदाहरण के लिए मेरी एक प्रिय जगह - दिल्‍ली विश्‍वविद्यालय का कला संकाय और क्‍या? http://www.flickr.com/photos/77626305 at N00/62705021/ इस विषय में कुछ और http://masijeevi.blogspot.com/2005/11/blog-post_22.html विजेंद्र